What is the Order of the Phoenix and what do they do?

Title says it all really.

My belief is that the order is a powerful group of Witches, Wizards and other "things" that formed to fight Voldemort in the early days of his ascension to pure evilness! They existed in utter secret behind the scenes and established a large web of contacts amongst many second and third party people in order to formulate Voldy's and the Death Eaters whereabouts.

The question is, now Voldemort is back, will the Order be as strong as it was? Could former members of the order now be dead?
Is Harry destined to be the missing link needed to make the Order all powerful again?

Do you think the Order is something else?

Opinions welcomed

I think the Order of the Phoenix is exactly what you said Matt.

Now about Voldemort being back. I am not sure if it will be as strong as it was before, I think James and Lily were a part of it and now they're gone and others probably are as well. Harry may well be a huge help on the "good side" though and make up for the loses, after all he does seem to be a powerful wizard even for his age. I think that Voldemort is going to be harder to beat this time though, much harder and the Order of the Phoenix, if that really is what the Order is, is going to need many more members.

I think the Order of the Phoenix is either an award, like the Order of Merlin, or it's something no one's thought of yet. Probably the latter. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

I have a wavering opinion with this. It could be an award like Anne mentioned-- but then there's the whole group theory. I'm sure Dumbledore has something to do with it, and (perhaps) Fawkes. I dunno, I'll go with Anne and say that nobody's thought of it yet.

I like the 'group' theory. It would be impressive at the least to see a group of wizards/witches who fought Voldy back in the old days. It could also be formed at the beginning of book 5 as a 'new' order to fight Voldy. I don't necessarily think this is what the Order is, but I certainly think it could be. As for whether the Order will be as strong as they used to be - probably not, but they have some new blood. Harry, Ron, and Hermione may well be introduced into the group, since all three are competent wizards. There's always other students/former students that could be used as well.

But also think it could be some ancient sect or order that defeated a Dark Wizard ot great evil in the past. That order (TOotP) is long dead, but could have some key to Voldrmot'd defeat.

Or, as had been said, it could be an award.

But I dunno, it could be anything really. My favorite theory is the 'new group' theory, but it could be anything.

If the Order of the Phoenix is a group of people, I think Bill and Charlie Weasley will join. They were too young when Voldemort was in power the first time.

Yes, the old crowd has lost some strong people, but so has Voldemort. I know I've said it before, but I believe Dumbledore's crowd will do something to stop the Death Eaters in Azkaban from returning to fight for Voldemort.

Yeah, I guess you all summed it up. :) But do you think that Harry would be allowed to join? After all, he is still in Hogwarts and is an underage wizard. Not that it may matter anymore, since magic will be appearing everywhere with Voldemort back.

I also like the group theory. It seems like people who are actually willing to fight Voldemort, not just hide from him (like the Ministry).

As for Harry, I think that he might not be a full-fledged member, but used by the group, as he is powerful despite his age (like Valerie said) and he does seem to be one of the few (if not the only one) who can face Voldemort. They might have to specially train him, since he doesn't know as much about DADA as they would, they might need to teach him some Unforgivable Curses. I think that, if he really is part of this, Dumbledore will take him for special classes - and, if Dumbledore has much say, Ron and maybe Hermione will train with Harry, too.

TheSortingHat

This morning I was listening to GoF while driving to work. Crouch, Jr. talked about the "Dark Order". I had forgotten that Voldemort's group was called the "Dark Order". Now I'm convinced that the word "Order" refers to a group of people and the "Order of the Phoenix" is the people that fight for the good side.

Originally posted by ReLupin
This morning I was listening to GoF while driving to work. Crouch, Jr. talked about the "Dark Order". I had forgotten that Voldemort's group was called the "Dark Order". Now I'm convinced that the word "Order" refers to a group of people and the "Order of the Phoenix" is the people that fight for the good side.

Good point. I can't remember that in the GoF. I really need to buy the tapes or re-read the book again. I am getting very rusty, but still, that's a good point ReLupin.

Matt, I have read GoF several times, but I had never noticed it until today. It's in the Veritaserum Chapter when Moody/Crouch is talking to Harry after the 3rd task. He is comparing himself to Voldemort.

"And both of us had the pleasure...the very great pleasure...of killing our fathers to ensure the continued rise of the Dark Order!"

ReLupin: That convinces me even more that it's a group of people :)

Still, it strikes me as odd that Dumbledore called them the "Old Crowd" rather than just calling them the Order or Order of the Phoenix. Perhaps he didn't want whoever was around him to hear.

So, now I'm fairly convinced that it's a group of people who fought against Voldemort. Two Orders fighting each other makes sense.

Still, I found Anne's idea of it being like the Order of Merlin interesting. I think that the word "the" in it, though, keeps it from being a title.
Still, it could easily be something none of us have thought of yet.

I have a humble opinion about the name of the Order of the Pheonix... prehaps it's named that because all the members have wands with pheonix feathers in their cores. Apparently a wand with a pheonix feather in it's core is very powerful so it would be a group of very powerful witches and wizards... ;)

Interesting, MJ (you never told me that theory before :p ) It could be the reason they were named that, definately. I kind of like it. The only thing is, Voldemort also had a wand with a phoenix feather in it. Still, it's a decent theory :)

At first I thought that the Order was like Order of Merlin, but there's a real hole in this theory. When Harry gets his letter of Hogwarts, Dumbledore's awards are under his name, and Order of the Phoenix does not appear. You'd think that as a major force against Volemort, Dumbledore would be in it. Then again, it could be secret as Morgoth said.

Maybe the Order, while being a group of people of some sort, was not created by Dumbledore, but rather taken up by him...
Consider this. The phrase "Dark Order" was used by Crouch. I have some doubt in the fact that the phrase refers only to Voldemort's followers. In general, it could be a term describing any person who is under the wing of a "Dark Lord"; it isn't very likely that Voldemort was the first wizard to take others under him as servants in order to assist him, as it's a general beginning to those who wish for power, and dark, ambitious wizards are going to want power. So someone could have created it long ago in answer to another person's creating of a Dark Order, gathering their own followers to oppose the other side.

At any rate, whatever it is, I have no doubt in the fact that it will be something that has to be kept secret. What would be the fun if everyone knew?

Little edit: if the Order wasn't completely in secrecy, I could see a two-fold meaning. And if there wasn't one to begin with, Dumbledore would have no trouble in inventing one.

I pretty much agree with the first post, I think the order of the phoenix was a secret group of witches and wizards, dedicated to removing the dark wizards, so to speak. I've read a very interesting fanfiction about this, I wish I could remember where because it had a very good theory. But I think that it was most definitely a group for fighting dark wizards, of which I think Dumbledore was a member of.

Originally posted by Thayet
I pretty much agree with the first post, I think the order of the phoenix was a secret group of witches and wizards, dedicated to removing the dark wizards, so to speak. I've read a very interesting fanfiction about this, I wish I could remember where because it had a very good theory. But I think that it was most definitely a group for fighting dark wizards, of which I think Dumbledore was a member of.

I totally agree! And I think Dumbledore is the one who gathered all those people to fight dark wizards!!!! Won't it be nice if Fawkes has some SPECIAL POWERS!!! (beside .. healing and stuff ...) against Voldemort!!! (since the name is Order of the Phoenix!!!!)

I agree that the order of the phoenix being a group of powerful wizards and witches. I also never noticed the dark order being mentioned. I'll have to go back and read that chapter.

Originally posted by LewsTherin
...but they have some new blood. Harry, Ron, and Hermione may well be introduced into the group, since all three are competent wizards. There's always other students/former students that could be used as well.
But also think it could be some ancient sect or order that defeated a Dark Wizard ot great evil in the past. That order (TOotP) is long dead, but could have some key to Voldrmot'd defeat.
I absolutely agree, about the order being something old formed to fight a dark wizard not necessarily Voldemort, but maybe Grindewald (sp)?
It is my theory that maybe after defeating that dark wizard they went into silence and reappeared when Voldemort came into power to fight him, after Voldemort was defeated they went into silence again and now, that Voldemort is back, the order, again like the real phoenix bird itself, which was reborn from his ashes, the order was reborn when it was needed.

Well, I agree with the first post too. i think that the order of the phoenix is a group of witches and wizards, who fought Voldemort in the past. as for if they will take Harry as a member or not, well dont forget, he is the boy that lived, the only person that survived from Voldemort's curse

People I think may join:-
Harry.
Friend of dumbledores, the boy who lived, survived voldemort, brought news of his rising.
Hermione.
Against voldemort. Extremely competent witch and very intelligent, and, as the tme-turner showed, able to keep a secret.

Not sure about Ron.

It's also possible that people are admitted to the Order of the Phoenix when they are "chosen" or recognized as members of the group by a phoenix, namely Fawkes. Fawkes helped Harry in CoS, and Dumbledore knows that, so that would mark Harry as a member of the group. If that theory happens to be correct, Hermione and Ron (and others) could only join if they were helped/recognized by a phoenix. Maybe a far-fetched theory....

An interesting theory HogwartsChaplain, and one I think could well be true.

I reckon it's a group of people that fight and protect others from Voldemort, or stifle all the attacks from the Muggle population. Exactly who is in this group we don't know, but I suspect it'll be the professors, a few ministry workers and former Head Boys/Girls. The Weasleys could possibly in it, as well as other wizarding families that like Muggles.

I know there's already been a million and one threads about this in these forums and others, so humor me a bit because I'm want to start another one. ;)

What do you believe The Order is exactly? Personal opinion, its not to protect Hogwarts, Harry won't be part of it, and it'll be much larger than the what, 7-8 people that have been mentioned. It just can't be limited to a few people we know of. Take Lupin for example. He's been mentioned as a probable member. Okay, so he's handsome and darn sessy (hee!) and he's an animagi, but er...that's it. He was a total goofball while he was a student and he doesn't have the experience, age or wisdom to bring down the Dark Lord. Also, JKR has used common mythology to fuel her ideas in the series. Like the Philosopher's Stone. That's a real idea, taken and given a different story about it. So, having said that, this is my idea. ;) Bear with me. ehhe..

The Order of the Phoenix is much larger, many people spread over Europe (or Voldemort's traveling/conquering area). It is to bring the Dark Lord down, but also to protect the people and use their (member's) resources to do so. So, maybe that's a common theory but this is where I got it. ;)
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/DragOrd.htm
If you don't feel like reading or clicking:
"The Order of the Dragon (German "Drachenorden" and Latin "Societatis draconistrarum") was an institution, similar to other chivalric orders of the time, modelled on the Order of St George (1318). It was created in 1408 by the Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund (while he was still king of Hungary) and his queen Barbara Cilli, mainly for the purpose of gaining protection for the royal family. According to its statute (which survives in a copy dated 1707), the Order also required its initiates to defend the Cross and to do battle against its enemies, principally the Turks. The original Order comprised twenty-four members of the nobility, including such notable figures as King Alfonso of Aragon and Naples, and Stefan Lazarevic of Serbia."

(There's other URL's out there about this, I just picked a better one)
This is from Vlad the Impaler's time (Dracula supposedly) and makes perfect sense if you put in the terms and times of Harry Potter. Why have most of the members of The Order of the Phoenix always near Hogwarts, or limited to people who aren't too powerful like Lupin or Sirius? Makes good fanfiction, but not a plausible book. :)

Anyway, there you go. My starting theory for what the next book entails, and why JKR said the next book will be set away from Hogwarts. Cheers!

The reason people mention Lupin is because he was one of that select group told to be informed about the current events at the end of Goblet of Fire.
Uh... handsome?

Anyway, that's the most researched and considered theory on the title I've ever seen. But I've never EVER read that Joanne Rowling said the next book will be set away from Hogwarts. Where did she say that?

Here (http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22&highlight=Order+of+the+phoenix) there's another thread about Order of the Phoenix but this theory is so interesting that it may deserve its own thread.:)

I really like the idea of order being a very large group of people spread all over Europe. :yup: It makes sense.

Oh, and welcome to the forums, The Oracle!:D

She didn't so much say the book would be set away from Hogwarts. She stated that we would see places that we haven't before.
I like this theory. It makes the Order look kind of like a secret society. Sort of Illuminati like but in a good way. It would hadily explain why DD is so well informed as to the whereabouts and activities of V. Great job Oracle. :tu:

Originally posted by The Oracle
Take Lupin for example. He's been mentioned as a probable member. Okay, so he's handsome and darn sessy (hee!) and he's an animagi, but er...that's it.
Welcome to the forums, Oracle.

Lupin is not an animagus. He is a werewolf. An animagus is able to transform into an animal whenever he/she wants to. A werewolf has absolutely no control over the transformation and no control over his/herself while in the werewolf form. That is a very, very major difference.

I like this theory!

Kind of like what Raul Wallenberg did for the Jews in his factory during WWII. It probably (under this premise) protects potential victims of Vlody and can hide them or protect them if the need arises. They may also have a few spies etc. to get information.

Anyhow JKR has stated that we will see places we have not seen before, and has intimated parts of the book will not take place at Hogwarts.

I have another idea, that it may not be from Harry's point of view. She had to rewrite a large portion of it and she has stated it is the most difficult yet, and it will be different from the others. Anyhow, it's an idea.

I like this theory, because it is based on historical/ mythical facts. We all know how much JK likes to use that type of fact in her writings.

But, I'd have to agree with Ferrik. We only know that OoF will be away from Hogwarts and in new locations-but I'm not sure that it will completely be set away from Hogwarts.

But, I'm with Manyasha--I'd think that the Order would be full of people whom are from in and around England.

No chance that it will be far away from hogwarts, anyways, I think the order is a society like the one of the deatheaters, the deatheater's symbol is a snake something while the order's symbol is a phoniex, and they fight against each other, something like gangs if you know what I mean? Gang fights and stuff, but only more deadly.:devil:

Originally posted by ReLupin
Welcome to the forums, Oracle.

Lupin is not an animagus. He is a werewolf. An animagus is able to transform into an animal whenever he/she wants to. A werewolf has absolutely no control over the transformation and no control over his/herself while in the werewolf form. That is a very, very major difference.

This is going to sound strange, but I got the impression that Lupin was animagus as well as a werewolf. Why? In PoA he says:
"Highly exciting possibility's were open to us now we could all transform"
I know that could just be his transformation into a werewolf, but it got me thinking that maybe he can change into a regular wolf as well.

I think when they said they could all transform, they meant he could transform into a werewolf only.

And anyway... people who think in the same ways like to stick together, right? So I'm not sure if the Oerder of the Phoenix is kind of as worked out as the "Drachenorden" but I suppose it must be pretty international because Wizards generally seem to know each other mcuh more than muggles do... Guess that's because there are less and they can get to other places so easily..

It's an interesting theory. Rowling has used mythology prior to this, but we have no way of knowing how accurate the other myth based names have been; the story is yet to progress so far. The numbers, if this theory were to be true, probably would not be very high as there were a lot of deaths in Voldemort's time. Maybe the original twenty-four of the Dragon, maybe less. It'd be sort of like a knighted Secret Service. I'd think that the major force would be put to protecting enemies, but ensuring Dumbledore's safety, Harry's safety, and the safety of numerous people close to both that will be in peril, is going to be important.

Just some household cleaning. I noticed that this thread is very similar to the one started by Morgoth on July 18th. So....

*merge*

While i agree that the idea of the order of the pheonix being a group of anti-dark-arts fighters, I've always hoped that it will be something less obvious that you can't really guess till you've read the book.

So til I have read the book I will be hoping for the order of the samestrength wandcores fighting each other theory mentioned in the earlier thread.

That's my favourite and I'm sticking to it.

Can't agree more with you Matt.

As for who's in it this is my guess:


Dumbledore - Head
McGogannal
Snape
Sirius
Lupin
Viktor
Harry (Yes I know he will only be 15 but I seriously think he will)
Ms Figg (Also think she will be the DADA teacher)
The Giants
Hagrid, Madame Maxime.
The Weasley Family.

And maybe Amos Diggory. I suspect there will be more but not sure yet.

I think the order of the phoenix is an elite group of wizarding folk out to stop death eaters, I wonder if muggles will have to get involved if Voldermort becomes too powerful?

I think I remember from the conversation in the Three Broomsticks in POA that Dumbledore had a group of allies who suspected they had a spy in their midst (thought to be Sirius but really Peter). I presume this group included MWPP, Lily, and Snape after he changed sides, and probably Arabella Figg and Mundungus Fletcher. Possibly (I'm guessing here) Moody and the Weasleys were also involved. These people might comprise the Order...but then again, they might not.

I think harry and his gang (hermoine, ron, neville, and maybe some others) are the ones who actually form the order of the pheonix. This could be possible because i believe i heard from another post that James Potter started up a club as well when he was at Hogwarts. I think that Harry gets wind of this and starts up a club of it's own. What i wasnt to know is what the club is going to do? I think that it would be used as some kind las minute deffense or coahlition of students if Vlodemort gets into the Gryfindor tower...just a thought let me know what you think...

I thinkit's obvious that the Order of the Phoenix is a Phoenix loversclub, created by Harry and co. Everyone knows that Harry is a great fan of phoenixes, he and a few friends created a club that worships them. They meet every year, and have contests.

I particularly like the pie-eating contest.

Your very ironic at the moment Hederic

I think that your humor is good but i would like to get some real insight on the issue. What is The Order of The Pheonix I already stated what I thought it was what do you think it is?

It's probably a group formed to fight the Dark side. Kinda like the Death Eaters are a group for Voldemort, except these will be for the good side.

if this is true and the order of the pheonix is indeed the opposition to the death eaters who is it's leader and why is the name called the order of the pheonix...

Maybe Dumbledore's the head. He obviosly likes phoenixes! Also, he was the one giving directions to people in Book 4 after Fudge refused to do anything.

What is wrong with my theory?

It could very well be that The Order of the Phoenix is nothing more than the past time activity of crazed students on drugs. It's as good a theory as any I've heard so far, which is quite sad once you think about it. It's like The Prisoner of Azkaban, given the fact that Voldie is the main antagonist in the serie, I was surprised to find out that he wasn't even in the book. It is possible that The Order of the Phoenix is just another side-story.

I just think that Dumbledore wouldn't name it something like that especially sice he already has a name for the group of wizards joining together to fight Voldemort...remember wizards joined before to fight Voldemort why change something that already works? I think another good possibility is that someone animage is indeed a pheonix...perhaps hagrid or snape who indeed are given orders to carry out, and that the title refers to the orders given to these people...i don't know i think i'm reaching

Can animagi turn themselves into magical animals, though? I thought they could only be "muggle" animals...

not true apples if my memory serves me right i believe profressor Lupin's animage is a wearwolf...and a wearwolf in my opinion is more of a "magical" animal than a "muggle" animal.

So...what you're saying is, that The Order of the Phoenix might be a reference to the order given to people...by a phoenix?

Oh, I see. That theory is MUCH better than mine.

I think that we're searching in the wrong direction. Every is making up theories about secret organizations. But why? The order of the Phoenix can mean many things. Why secret organizations? I suppose it's because of the Bond films, or maybe there's something about secret organizations that tikkles our imagination. But whatever it is, people seem to crave for it.

I don't think JK will be that predictable, if she is, I'll be very dissapointed. I think that the title will refer to something much more complicated, something we won't expect. Why else would she give cryptic messages if the content isn't even remotely unpredictable?

And by the way, Lupin isn't an animagus, he's a real werewolf.

Originally posted by ares1501s
not true apples if my memory serves me right i believe profressor Lupin's animage is a wearwolf...and a wearwolf in my opinion is more of a "magical" animal than a "muggle" animal.

Lupin isn't an animagi; he IS a werewolf. :)

I once heard a theory that suggested the Order of the Phoenix had something to do with wizards whose wand cores came from phoenixes, (or whatever the plural of phoenix is), but I guess there's really no evidence to back it up.

I haven't thought about the issue much myself. I'm willing to just wait and see what JKR gives us.

hum what if pheonix's can talk that would explain alot. I remember that J.K. mentioned that there were a lot of foreshadowing in the second book. Toward the end of the second book Harry and tom riddle see Fawkes singing...does this imply that pheonixes are capable of communicating with wizards and if so can Fawkes play a truly significant role in the next book. Remember Fawkes feathers have been used in harry's and Voldemort's wands.

Originally posted by Hederic
And by the way, Lupin isn't an animagus, he's a real werewolf.

True, true. It happens against his will. The wolf is a part of the were, the man, it's not a magical creature on it's own.

What if the Order of the Phoenix is something that doesn't exist anymore? It's just a thought, because so many people are wondering who would be a part of it. It could be something ancient.

Originally posted by Hederic
I don't think JK will be that predictable, if she is, I'll be very dissapointed. I think that the title will refer to something much more complicated, something we won't expect. Why else would she give cryptic messages if the content isn't even remotely unpredictable?

You're right, it could be anything, really. The title might have something to do with the order in which phoenix feathers are taken and put into wands. One wand might have more power over it's brother... *is grasping at straws*
*fails miserably*

What other theories could there be about this?

By the way, Cat- The Werewolf is concidered to be a magical beast. It's in the book Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them.

Originally posted by apples

By the way, Cat- The Werewolf is concidered to be a magical beast. It's in the book Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them.

I know, but you don't get a wolf like that that doesn't turn into a man when the full moon subsides. It's not a magical creature on it's lonely ownsome. It's one of a pair.

I made a mistake suggesting that Lupin was an animage...but i can't find anywhere in the 4 books that says that a wizard can't animage into a magical creature...and what would qualify as a magical creature...in my opinion a cat is a magical creature as it is found common in wizardry world and holds superstitions...maybe even actual powers. So maybe my theory still holds water that maybe the order of the pheonix is an order given to an animage of a pheonix...whether it be snape, hagrid, or even dumbledore

You need to look at the facts. Though it doesn't say that animagusses can't turn into magical beast. There have been no reports of that happening. On the other hand, all the animagus we know of have normal animal forms. You can't change this fact by convincing us that cats are indeed magical creature...

Originally posted by ares1501s
I made a mistake suggesting that Lupin was an animage...but i can't find anywhere in the 4 books that says that a wizard can't animage into a magical creature...and what would qualify as a magical creature...in my opinion a cat is a magical creature as it is found common in wizardry world and holds superstitions...maybe even actual powers. So maybe my theory still holds water that maybe the order of the pheonix is an order given to an animage of a pheonix...whether it be snape, hagrid, or even dumbledore

I know my brain can flex to imagine people flying on broomsticks and turning into animals, but I can't imagine somebody gaining magical powers that aren't human. To change into a phoenix you'd need the song and the constant personal life cycle, because that's what a phoenix is. Having the appearance wouldn't make you a phoenix. But could a mere human, even a magical human, induce such great power like that? It would be too much for me!

PS: My cat doesn't seem very mystical. He slides around the carpet on his butt.

MADNESS!

(Sorry, I have an unconcious need to be the last that replies in a thread. I'm sure it has something to do with my male ego, and the large amounts of testosteron surging through my body.)

not just any wizard could but dombledore who is perhaps the greatest wizards of all time (besides Harry) could...What is the song of the Pheonix i can't find it i believe it's in book two and i can't remember where...this may be something important that foreshadows the future...

Dumbledore isn't immortal. You can't have an immortal being as your second form.

Originally posted by ares1501s
not just any wizard could but dombledore who is perhaps the greatest wizards of all time (besides Harry) could...What is the song of the Pheonix i can't find it i believe it's in book two and i can't remember where...this may be something important that foreshadows the future...

It's in the second and fourth book. The song ... uh.... oh, yeah, it puts courage in the noble hearted and fear into the evil buggers.

just because something can be reborn doesn't nescecarily mean it is immortle...i think that a pheonix can die if killed just not of old age so again i think my theory still holds water

i know that Fawkes sings in the second book but what does it sing i think this may have some importance on the subject

When someone gets reborn over and over, and retains his memory...yeah, he's immortal. That he can't be killed is of no consequence.

Originally posted by ares1501s
i know that Fawkes sings in the second book but what does it sing i think this may have some importance on the subject

I told you what it sings. It sings a song that ignites the flame of courage. I don't know if it sings La Bamba.

EDIT: Actually, 'Dancing Queen' might strike fear into the minds of the wicked.

but dumbledore told harry that phoenix were born from its ashes... after it went thru the Burning Day (am i correct here?).. so if the phoenix is killed off, without its ashes it won't be reborn, rite? doesn't take make phoenix as mortal as any creature?

Originally posted by periwinkle-blue
but dumbledore told harry that phoenix were born from its ashes... after it went thru the Burning Day (am i correct here?).. so if the phoenix is killed off, without its ashes it won't be reborn, rite? doesn't take make phoenix as mortal as any creature?

It doesn't die of old age, I think that's all we know here. If you shot it, the bird might have no time to spontaneously combust. It's less mortal than everybody else, but it might not be immortal. I wouldn't consider it immortal anyway, since it techinically dies all the time.

Being immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. It means you can't die of natural causes. At least, that's what I think. Nobody has ever been able to proof that, since we haven't found someone immortal yet.

Everyone can be killed given enough thought.

I guess Hederic might have a point. He's taking it from a highlander type point of view. McCleod is immortal but can die if he gets his head cut off. All what i'm trying to say is that the pheonix could die and not come back and that maybe it is Dumbledores animage ant that might have something to do with the title of the fifth book...I still believe in my first theory the most though...that Harry established the order of the pheonix...

Order of the Phoniex might not be a group, it could be some kind of award like Order of Merlin

Scott has a very interesting point. I did some research and have discovered that the order of merlin is something given to wizards who do great things...i also believe that it originated from merlin. So could this mean that the order of pheonix is something given from a pheonix? As far as i know Fawkes has already given Harry 2 things...his wand and his life. Harry's wand is mades from a feather from fawkes and fawkes saved harry's life by crying on harry's shoulder. I think we may be coming on to something or maybe it's just me.

lol your kidding I've been saying the order of the Phoniex was an award for as long as I've been here...

^_^

Originally posted by SchizoScott
Order of the Phoniex might not be a group, it could be some kind of award like Order of Merlin

Well, it's almost the same thing. If you recieve the Order of Merlin it means you are officially merited to become part of a group that is officially merited and known as the Order of Merlin. When somebody says that the Order is given, they mean the insignia is given - you know, the fancy bit at the end of Dumbledore's signature, for instance. Dumbledore is part of the Order of Merlin, a group of achieving wizards and witches.

Originally posted by lanifiel
I've been saying the order of the Phoniex was an award for as long as I've been here...
Wow! I never even thought about it being an award! :) Do you mind if I put this theory on my site? I'll make sure you get the credit for it, too!

I think its an award... like theres the Order of Merlin First Class and all.... it's an award Order of the Phoenix First Class ...i dunno.


Edit: Hehe oops someone already said that..... this is what happens when you reply without reading the posts...sorry.

if you may notice the titles of the books so far have all been people, places, and things that were tampered (or tried to be tampered) with by dark wizardry. The sorcerers stone was almost taken by Voldemort. The chamber of secrets was opened by Ginny, who was under the control of Tom Riddle. Azcaban is ran by poeple considered to be linked with Death Eaters. And The Goblit of Fire is rigged up by an imposter of Mad-Eye Moodey. J.k. has a thing for repetition i believe, and maybe the same is true here...

do you really think JKR will link all the 7 series titles with the dark wizardry?

Yes it is possible. I my opinion anything can happen at this point maybe Harry for example will die in book 7...it would be a nice rounded series then would it not? j/k...but i do seriously think that there is some linkage between the titles...I write and i use the same technique over and over again when i choose a title.

Originally posted by apples
It's probably a group formed to fight the Dark side. Kinda like the Death Eaters are a group for Voldemort, except these will be for the good side.
Agreed

if it is a group of people why the name and who would be part of the group...I think strongly however that it strongly has something to do with Harry though...i mean that's what the book is about...if the whole book is about Dumbledore and his fellow old friends fighting the death eaters where does that put Harry?

I personally don't think anybody will come even close to guessing what the Order of the Phoenix is about...JK always keeps us guessing and we always end up guessing wrong! Oh well...it's always fun to come up with what we think could be possible :) I just hope she hurries up with it...

yeah me too lol i feel like i've wated for 10 years...

I know...And it doesn't help that she keeps saying "it's almost done it's almost done" when it doesn't look like it'll EVER be done. *sigh* HURRY UP WITH IT JK! As long as it's good when it comes out, then I'll forgive her for taking so long! :)

it better be the best book ever i'm almost dead because of anticipation...j/k Rowling i appreciate your books keep them coming and i'll be happy

Originally posted by ares1501s
it better be the best book ever i'm almost dead because of anticipation...j/k Rowling i appreciate your books keep them coming and i'll be happy


right on =)

Yes... I wonder... what happens if you behead a phoenix? Most probably it wouldn't have any effect or something... but who knows?

Oh... and back to the topic - I think the order of the phoenix is a group chosen to fight the Dark Lord... headed by Dumbledore himself. He does say at the end of the fourth book, "Gather the old gang"...

I would suppose that hackings one head of, would at least have SOME kind of effect. Next to extremely ticking the one on the receiving end off.

I wonder if they even bother reproducing a lot since they live so long.

i bet phoenix(es?) are like the dodo... they'll died out eventually..

harry potter and the order of phoenix... hmm.. maybe the order of phoenix is actually a clan of rare phoenix(es?) maybe it's Fawkes relatives or cousins or such..

or the last remaining phoenix(es?) here on earth..? maybe the old crowds are the ones whom each owns a phoenix..

I don't know why but I don't think you can really OWN a phoenix.
Dumbledore is the type of person they'd want to be around but normal wizards? I don't think so.
I have nothing to base this on...

however, i don't see arabella figg and mad-eye moody as normal or ordinary wizards... i think they've somethin up their sleeves too.. i'm guessing arabella figg is about the same age as dumbly-dorr..:elaugh:

Mad-Eye Moody would suspect the poor bird of doing something evil and chop its head off.
And the cats would kill Arabella's phoenix.

well... okay....

still.. i think i'll vote on the order of phoenix is actually Fawkes' clan..

And Lupin would either eat it during his werewolf stage or it would die because he could not afford to feed it.

hahaha.. that's quite outrageous Fuchsia!

order of phoenix:

granfather = Flexor
granmuzzer = Flreulix
father = Frictweld
mother = Fawnix
son = Fawkes!

Originally posted by Hederic
I would suppose that hackings one head of, would at least have SOME kind of effect. Next to extremely ticking the one on the receiving end off.

I still think its a group...

and about killing a phoenix... it's totally pointless... even if you choose from 1001 methods.... a phoenix is reborn "when it dies"... making it essentially immortal... not that it can't be killed.... it needs to die to be reborn... killing it only speeds up the process since it doesn't have to wait for old age to take its toll...

hmmmm..... that reminds me... might be related to the plot of the 5th novel....

i don't know where you et your recourses revs but a pheonix is only reborn every 600 years or so by old age. If it is killed it does not come back...it has to die by natural causes

5oo years... according to my lexicon dictionary.... but mythology states that a phoenix cannot be killed as "its will is greater than anyone, and so it cannot be bound or harmed against its will"... but ofcourse... I wouldn't know how JKR would portray the phoenix... she did make her own version of mythology... which I'm not complaining about.... considering that I'm a harry potter nut...

I think the Order of the Phoenix is an award like Merlin. I have no idea what the circumstances are that would cause a person to get the award. The Order of Merlin seemst o have to do with combatting the Dark Arts and doing deed for society.

Perhap the Order of the Phoenix has soemthing to do with discovery - like Dumbeldores 12 uses for Dragon's blood (I wonder when this will come into play?).

I've always thought that Lily may have something to do with inventing spells and charms and researching ancient magic - so perhaps one of the kids will receive a award for a project that discovers a new spell or charm? Hermione, I think, would end up with that one.

RANT: Why can't anybody SEE the obvious reason that the Wizards that are gatherd are called the Order of the Pheonix! It's RIGHT THERE in front of you! I have this same problem on some of the WoT Lists.
END RANT:

Or how about...

The Order of the Pheonix is named after a quality that Pheonix's have.

Or as Dumbledore tells us in CoS "They make very LOYAL pets."

THE ORDER OF THE PHEONIX WILL BE MADE UP OF WIZARDS & WITCHES WHO HAVE PROVEN THEIR LOYALTY TO DUMBLEDORE!

When you try to decipher stuff like this every word available to you makes a dif. If you need some real practice read the Wheel of Time Series, there are enough prophecies in the 9 (soon 2B 10) on going series to boggle even my mind.

That's that. But what I want to know is since when does Dumbledore have the phoneix? And if it can live for 500 years or more and is reborn from the ashes, could it have belonged to umbledore's parents and grand parents and great.........ect. Maybe to all of the old headmasters of Hogwarts dating back to Godric Gryffindor.

:sigh:Well, recently I've posted my thoughts on the Order of the Pheonix on another thread (or at least why it is named so.)

I think that the Order of the Phoenix will be a name given to the "old crowd" so that people can hear about it and gain hope.

I also feel I know why it will be (or is) called the Order of the Phoenix. Albus tells Harry in CoS of a trait pheonixes have, a trait Dumbledore will obviously seek in those wizards and witches that'll become members of the Order of the Pheonix. When you know what it is you'll be hitting yourself because of it. Can anyone tell me what it is?

I have yet to see it ANYWHERE, although I did send it into mugglenet.com.

I think that the Order is a new Ministry. I think that Dumbledore and those loyal to him - Arthur Weasley among them - and they will form a new government to fight Voldemort and the Death Eaters because Fudge won't have the gut. Kinda like a revolution. Whaddaya think?

*my first post :o *

Originally posted by KissMeDarkly
RANT: Why can't anybody SEE the obvious reason that the Wizards that are gatherd are called the Order of the Pheonix! It's RIGHT THERE in front of you! I have this same problem on some of the WoT Lists.
END RANT:

Or how about...

The Order of the Pheonix is named after a quality that Pheonix's have.

Or as Dumbledore tells us in CoS "They make very LOYAL pets."

THE ORDER OF THE PHEONIX WILL BE MADE UP OF WIZARDS & WITCHES WHO HAVE PROVEN THEIR LOYALTY TO DUMBLEDORE!

When you try to decipher stuff like this every word available to you makes a dif. If you need some real practice read the Wheel of Time Series, there are enough prophecies in the 9 (soon 2B 10) on going series to boggle even my mind.

And if you turn out to be incorrect will you give everybody a break? It's all theory work and yours is a theory as good as theirs. You're not Poirot.

I think the Order of the Phoenix is going to be something like various organizations that get together to fight a certain thing.

In this particular organization its going to be to fight Vold. or evil in general.

It probably started at the beginning with 3 of the founders of the school to fight Salizar.. and his dark ways.

Has been passed down from generation to generation as they graduate from Hogwarts... Lily and James were part of it.. Mainly James.. Vold knew Harry would have his name down for this order and be stronger than he.


ok ok.. its just a theory but hey... you never know.. lol

Maybe is has something to do with harrys wand and albuses bird.

I really think it's somthing that none of us of thought about

I agree with the group theory...but it will be a new group; not an old one. But I do think that if there was an old group that some of those people will be in the new group. And if there was an old one I don't think it was called OotP; that's the new name!

And I think that this new group is going to have connection with the "room" that Harry's been in blah blah. I think that the room will be the CoS room; that' s where the Order will be initiated and will be it's headquarters with many books of powerful and ancient magic to fight the Dark Lord. :cool:

Originally posted by Anne
I think the Order of the Phoenix is either an award, like the Order of Merlin, or it's something no one's thought of yet. Probably the latter. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

I agree here - I think it could be some kind of award, much like an OBE (Order of the British Empire)

Any thoughts?

Does anyone else wonder if this is not only a faction against Voldemort but also against the Ministry of Magic? What could result from this? Arthur Weasley getting fired, Percy having to choose between family and career, Hogwarts getting shut down by Cornelius Fudge and Lucius Malfoy? Anything goes...

Originally posted by Ellaroo
I agree here - I think it could be some kind of award, much like an OBE (Order of the British Empire)

Any thoughts?

That kind of order is identical to one of the others. When people say somebody has received the OBE, they mean they have recieved a place in the order and the attachment of 'OBE' on their signature (like Dumbledore has 'Order of Merlin, First Class'). It's still an elite band of people, though.

As to the gang war idea, i think it would be cool if the Deatheaters and Order of the Phoenix go around taggin' walls and stuff lol. I'm just saying that it sounds kind of ummm what am i looking for....The uhhhh opera about the 2 gangs and the guy's sister and something or other never mind.

Well, I'm really quite comfortable with the concept that the Order has to do with the "old crowd" though I guess it might be quite a small number of people who are faithful and kind of pure at heart as a Phoenix is supposed to be. BUT another idea just occured to me:clappy: :(seldom enough;) ;) ):
What if this is nothing traditional at all???
What if for instance Ron, Hermione and Harry just found a group of students who are determined to help fight oldemort and call it The Order of the Ohoenix cos it sounds cool??:whistle: :rolleyes: Hmmm...to be honest I'm not 100% convinced of this myself but it's a nice alternative...
Any comments? Please??;D :o :whistle: :rolleyes:

God!! My spelling !! Well, just ignore it...

I had a theory i didnt really believe but thought was plausible about the OotP being a name for Voldy's innermost circle, coz every posting i'd seen was so convinced that it was DD's gang who were gonna defeat Voldy...

On page 1 here someone put that Barty Crouch Jr referred to the Dark Order, which I hadnt picked up on, which kinda refutes this idea. Unless the OotP is it's secret name, that only its members know... as i said it was an idea born out of not thinking JKR would be that predictable.

This thread's got loads of good ideas :-)

I like the idea that it's a secret Order reborn whenever it's needed, composed of powerful, good magicians around the world :-)

I dont know if Harry will be allowed to join coz of his age... however, enough exceptions to the rules are made where he's concerned!

Someone posted that perhaps the Order will also bring down the MoM... I dont know if it will, but a fanfic i read had Fudge revealed as a DE... I think if something like that happened, or enough of them felt it was too corrupt, they might take over, for a while at least.

I didn't skim through the threads, so forgive me if this was already posted. The Order of the Phoenix may have something to do with Voldemort's steps towards immortality. It could also have something to do with their wands. However, I doubt it was "the old crowd."

Just my thoughts...

Reasons for it being Voldy's crowd:

1) Phoenixes association with immortality, and Voldermorts wish for it
2) He was pretty much literally reborn from his ashes (give or take the blood of a foe and the hand of a supporter...)
3) He has a phoenix feather in his wand
4) JKR likes to suprise us and most ppl seem dead against this idea, refusing to even consider it
5) Propoganda - Voldy and supporters probably feel they are doing the right thing (except those supporting him through fear, but they proably arent in his inner circle coz i dont think he wants to be surrounded by snivellers). Most ppl think of phoenixes as good and pure. Therefore, by association, Voldemort's cause is good and pure too, which is what he believes and would like ppl to believe.

(or, Bilbo, are you saying that the Order could be the steps Voldy takes towards becoming immortal?)

reasons for it being DD's crowd:
1) Phoenix - Fawkes.
2) The stuffs about Orders firing up again when they're needed. Also has the symbolism.
3) The way the last chapter would then lead on to the title, although i dont think this is the strongest reason. Especially because of the way the books start in the summer holidays, away from the wizarding world.
4) All the other associations with Phoenixes - that their songs inspire bravery in the good and fear in the bad, their tears have healing powers, that they're loyal... all good things, so Phoenixes are associated with good to the point someone said somewhere that they think Voldy's scared of them...

neutral:

Barty Crouch (Jr) refers to "the Dark Order" so that would be Voldy's team and the OotP would be DD's. Of course, there's nothing to say one secret order cant have 2 names so i dont think this is conclusive. Also, as Voldy seems to want to remove dead wood (ppl who arent completely loyal to him), it kinda makes sense for him to start building up his inner circle again, from scratch, under a different name.

I reckon there are reasonably good reasons for both cases.

If it were something purely to do with the wands of Voldy and Harry, i dont reckon it would result in the longest book of the series. The idea that the Order is there to help train Harry, as the other owner of a brother wand, to defeat Voldy holds more appeal.

I dont know what i believe... less than 4 months til the book comes out!

Could the Order of The phoenix be a group who protect Fawkes?

If Voldemort got hold of the bird, would he be able to make it cure him, or find out how it regenerates in fire.

I dont know... does fawkes need protecting? he's already at Hogwarts, one of the safest places to be atm, and he didnt exactly cower in the CoS, did he? <g> not to mention he only needs to start singing to make the DEs cower and cry whilst the 1st year Hufflepuffles kick them to the ground!

They are assumably, a group formed to combat the death eaters.

I was rereading Fahrenheit 451 last week when I came across the following quote:

"There was a silly **** bird called a Phoenix back before Christ, every few hundred years he built a pyre and burnt himself up. He must have been first cousin to Man. But every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing, over and over, but we've got one **** thing the phoenix never had. We know the **** silly thing we just did. We know all the **** silly things we've done for a thousand years and as long as we know that and always have it around where we can see it, someday we'll stop making all the **** funeral pyres and jumping in the middle of them. We pick up a few more people that remember every generation."

I thought this application of the Phoenix's life cycle to cyclical history was potentially interesting with regards to The Order of the Phoenix and what they may do. Ray Bradbury uses the phoenix in the above quote to illustrate history repeating itself. Last time Voldemort was in power, he was not called by the magic that protects Harry and in Book 4, Voldemort was fully reborn from the ashes, so to speak. This makes me wonder if perhaps in Book 5 The Order of the Phoenix is formed to learn from the mistakes made during Voldemort's previous reign of terror. I also wonder if history repeating itself means others will have to sacrifice themselves, like Lily did, for the sake of another - this time with magic that will finish Voldemort for good.

My first thought is that it is an award. Otherwise, I believe that it is a group formed to fight Voldemort, and that James and Lilly were a part of it.

IDEA!!!
You Know How Voldemort Killed James & Lily & Tried To Kill Harry, He May Have Done That Because They Were In OOTP & When Harry Was In His Fifth Year, He Would Be As Well !!!

This thread seems to have sunk rather; I had to search for it. Anyway I have some new thoughts about the Order.
I saw the cover for OotP in Waterstones the other day (OK, I didn't see it, I gazed longingly at it for a full five minutes) and on the cover was a large phoenix (Fawkes, perhaps) emerging from a sea of flames. Now, on previous books the cover has always shown a key scene from the narrative.
PS -- Harry first getting onto platform 9 3/4
CoS -- Harry and Ron flying the car to Hogwarts
PoA -- Harry and Hermione flying Buckbeak up to the castle
GoF -- Harry dodging the dragon to get the egg

This makes me think that phoenix itself may have an important role in the plot, and not just some organisation with a phoenix as a mascot. Perhaps the Order of the Phoenix is in fact a group of phoenices, not a group of people.

I'm convinced that whatever the Order is, it will be either good or better than good. In order to rise from the ashes, you have to burn in the first place. The idea of death and rebirth is one that requires acceptance of death. Voldemort never accepted death, so he was not really reborn. He was trying for eternal life, a thing no sane person would want. Phoenices are living symbols of the cycle of death and rebirth, something which Voldemort couldn't understand anymore than he can understand love. Voldemort would never adopt a phoenix as his mascot.

You are right Filia, He would more likely take the symbol of the snake forever eating it's own tail. [forgot what it is called.....]

Was it something like "Oroboros?"

My beliefs:
- It is not a group of people to do with immortality
- it is not ancient, and has nothing to do with James (remeber: the books are about Harry, what Harry is doing next year, and what Harry will do in the future, how could there be space for Harry to find all of this out, when he still has his own storyline to follow?)
- I dont think it is a metaphor in any way
- It could be the old crowd

BUT - I like Filia suggestion. possibly a group of Phoenixes.
Personally, I like the simply version. The Phoenix is giving an order. Of course, Im 99.9 % recurring wrong (which is actually 100%), but I like simple things.
People have always looked at the American cover for OotP. What abot the English version?

It shows a phoenix (presumably Fawkes) flying out of a large fire, yet looking beautiful (not as if its just been born out of the fire), and it is about midday, in the summer time.

I believe it is an ancient secret Order that exists to oppose Evil in the wizard world. Since Voldemort is gaining in power again, the Order must assemble once again to defeat him and his followers. I think the members of the Order must choose new members to train and educate so as to guarantee the continuing existence of the Order. Age may not be as big a factor in who is chosen as much as bravery, ability and loyalty. We may be surprised when we find out who some of the mambers of the Order turn out to be.
I personally think that Flitwick will be a prominent figure.

i beleive that the order of the phoenix is a new order made up by albus dumbledore for the alliance of wizards fighting lord voldemort.

the phoenix could be an animagus or the most obvious answer, fawkes.

now that voldemort has risen to power there is a good chance that he can be stopped as long as albus is about.

but, JK says that one of harrys fans will die. dumbledore respects harry, if dumbledore is the one who dies in the fifth book then they are gonna find it very difficult to defet the dark lord.

Originally posted by Crucio! (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=279785#post279785))
i beleive that the order of the phoenix is a new order made up by albus dumbledore for the alliance of wizards fighting lord voldemort.

the phoenix could be an animagus or the most obvious answer, fawkes.

now that voldemort has risen to power there is a good chance that he can be stopped as long as albus is about.

but, JK says that one of harrys fans will die. dumbledore respects harry, if dumbledore is the one who dies in the fifth book then they are gonna find it very difficult to defet the dark lord.


At mugglenet it says Dumbledorr is 150 years old so he could die of old age.

I think at some point Dumbledore will die. However, it will probably be in Book 6 or 7.

I think the Order deals with Voldemort and the steps towards immortality. Just my thoughts.

The UK edition book cover depicts a phoenix with two missing tail feathers. We know that the wands of both Voldemort and Harry contain tail feathers from the same phoenix, no other feathers having been given. The phoenix depicted therefore IS that very bird. Furthermore - other wizards prior to Voldemort and Harry must have owned those wands. THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX MUST SURELY BE ALL THOSE WIZARDS , PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE WHO HAVE EVER OWNED THOSE TWO WANDS. How far back in time does this go ? Perhaps they originally belonged to Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin; perhaps Harry's wand was once owned by Dumbledore who subsequently gave it up in the knowledge that it would eventually seek out Harry('the wand seeks the wizard'). And almost certainly other wizards, now departed would have owned the wands at some point in the past - all forming THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX.

I was under the assumption that Ollivander sold new wands though, not used wands. That is a good theory as to what the order of the pheonix is though. I think it involves more people who are still alive though.

You might check out the thread entitled what is the order of the pheonix and what do they do? (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22&highlight=order+pheonix) to see more theories also!

I don't think that the wands in Olivander's are used. He says in book#1 that each wand is destined for only one wizard. Clever thought though... I've never noticed that 2 feathers were missing from the phoenix that is in the OoTP cover (UK version)! :-)

Wizards are probably buried with their wands, I would be anyways

will someone give me a link to the UK cover picture...i cant find it

I can see no reference in Book 1 to the suggestion that Ollivanders sell only new wands. Nor do I believe that the Order involves other living wizards - bear with me on this:
1.The Phoenix depicted on the UK cover is pivotal to the argument - look at the illustration on the cover. The more you look at it, the clearer it becomes that this phoenix is the donor of the two tail feathers to the wands of Voldemort and Harry. No other living wizards have wands containing feathers from this phoenix. The word 'Order' suggests a group of people greater than two in number.
2. I think there has been too much emphasis on the Order being a group of people formed to fight Voldemort. The battle of good vs. evil is age old (both in the real world as well as the wizarding world). Harry/James Potter vs. Voldemort is merely the latest (and it has to be said -very recent) manifestation of this age old battle. What conflicts were there 800, 500, 200, 75 years before - crucially who were the protagonists. We know that the first great conflict was that between Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin.
3. This notion would appear to give credence to the 'heir' theory. I interpret heir in this sense not as biological descendant but all those who have though the ages inherited the morals and values of Gryffindor and Slytherin, which leads me back to the conviction that the two phoenix feathers/wands are the manifestation of good vs. evil and that over the centuries these wands have sought out their respective owners - a group known as the Order of the Phoenix, the Order comprising two opposing factions, but which at any given point in history has only two living members - currently Harry and Voldemort.

Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288704#post288704))
I can see no reference in Book 1 to the suggestion that Ollivanders sell only new wands. Nor do I believe that the Order involves other living wizards - bear with me on this:
1.The Phoenix depicted on the UK cover is pivotal to the argument - look at the illustration on the cover. The more you look at it, the clearer it becomes that this phoenix is the donor of the two tail feathers to the wands of Voldemort and Harry. No other living wizards have wands containing feathers from this phoenix. The word 'Order' suggests a group of people greater than two in number.



Firstly, the fact that we don't know what kind of wands he sells isn't steady ground to say that he does indeed sell used wands. But the deal with one person being less skilled with another person's wand sells me the concept that his wands are brand new. The fact that he remenisces about the wands also suggests he made them all in his lifetime.

Secondly, Fawkes the phoenix is on the cover of the UK editions. I believe that the artist who painted the covers was not given any kind of insight into the book, unlike the US artist (because Mary GrandPre is the continuous illustrator there). Without a shadow of a clue, it would just make sense to paint Fawkes, since the only clue-word in the title is 'phoenix' and he has been the bigshot phoenix in the series so far.

That's a good point. The artists for the UK cover weren't told anything about the book. All they had to work with was the title.

That, and Ollivander remembers getting the core(can't remember what it was) of Cedric's wand....that shows that he definitely makes his own(true, it doesn't prove he doesn't sell used ones).

All good points,
but Voldemort cannot fight himself, or atleast he wouldn't.
and Olivander seemingly doesn't sell used wands, as you have said.
Order seems to me to be more then too people, but maybe the ghosts of the Order play a part.
J.K. said that Harry will learn more about death in the 5th book. Maybe all order participants become ghosts.
Maybe you have to have performed a good deed, like being in the order, to be a ghost.
Good point by the way, about Olivander remembering each core.

Then why does Voldemort attack the Potters in the first place? When Harry was a baby, the wand is presumably still sitting on a shelf in Mr. Ollivander's shop.

It's doubtful that James owned the wand, or it probably would have been put in the vault at Gringott's with the rest of Harry's inheritence.

I don't think Voldemort could have guessed that Harry would grow up and buy that particular wand, and wanted to kill him before he bought it.

I just don't buy it.

Actually , my original thought was that Order of the Phoenix refered to the owners of any wand with a phoenix core, not just Fawkes. Its is possible. Think of it this way. I doubt that phoenix feathers are to common in wands the create special wands. I assume that a phoenix would not be too common of a creature.


PS...I think it refers to Dumbledore and Co. but it is some food for thought...

Reference the fact that Mr Ollivander remembers every wand he has ever sold - the sign over his shop reads: "Ollivanders: Makers of Fine Wands since 382BC" log before the time of Voldemort or even Gryffindor and Slytherin.
Reference the UK book cover - it is well documented that JK Rowling works closely with the artist in the production of the design even though unlike in the US the illustrator has not read the manuscript.
I think it is wrong to assume that Ollivander sells only new wands. There is nothing to suggest that this may be the case.
The idea that the UK cover illustration is Fawkes, merely because Fawkes is the only phoenix to have been named in previous books is too simplistic. Surely in the grand scheme of the underlying plot throughout the entire book series (i.e. good vs evil/Harry vs Voldemort) the phoenix whose tail feathers reside in their respective wands is a far more significant bird than Fawkes, paritcularly as the series approaches its climax.

Um, Dumbledore said that Harry's and Voldemort's phoenix feathers that reside in their wands came from Fawkes...not a more significant bird than Fawkes.

I am only going to comment on the missing feathers on the UK book cover. Phoenixes reguvinate. They are an all male species that are born from their father's ashes. We do not know how many times this has hapened with in the fifty or so years that has passed between Harry and Voldemort's school days, but what we do knwo is that Harry has seen this happen at least once, hich means that the phoenix that gave Harry and Voldemort his feathers no longer is living, but his son is. Ergo, the phoenix (which is essentially the same bird, yet still has it's own qualities) is either the past encarnation of Fawkes, or gives two more feathers. But it cannot be the present version of Fawkes as he himself has not given harry and Voldemort (well, really Mr. Olivander) his feathers, but it may be his father that is depicted on the cover, thus making it a memory.

Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288839#post288839))
Reference the fact that Mr Ollivander remembers every wand he has ever sold - the sign over his shop reads: "Ollivanders: Makers of Fine Wands since 382BC" log before the time of Voldemort or even Gryffindor and Slytherin.
Reference the UK book cover - it is well documented that JK Rowling works closely with the artist in the production of the design even though unlike in the US the illustrator has not read the manuscript.
I think it is wrong to assume that Ollivander sells only new wands. There is nothing to suggest that this may be the case.
The idea that the UK cover illustration is Fawkes, merely because Fawkes is the only phoenix to have been named in previous books is too simplistic. Surely in the grand scheme of the underlying plot throughout the entire book series (i.e. good vs evil/Harry vs Voldemort) the phoenix whose tail feathers reside in their respective wands is a far more significant bird than Fawkes, paritcularly as the series approaches its climax.


Two missing tail feathers? It is more than likely to be Fawkes. As Filius Flitwick said, it is actually stated in Goblet of Fire that the tail feathers in Voldemort's and Harry's wands come from Fawkes.

The sign over Ollivander's shop door does not mean that he, personally, has been making fine wands since 382 BC. Wandmaking is presumably in the family. Or else he's a really old fogey.

Yes, Mrs Rowling has some say in what goes on her book. But so do Bloomsbury. They could have said 'Give us an impressive phoenix'. It makes a fetching cover, but it doesn't mean it is an essential clue to what goes on in the book.

All the previous UK book covers show considerable detail of significant scenes or events in the stories. It cannot be plausible that the artist works without a detailed brief. You have to look at the illustration in conjunction with the title - OotP. What is the origin of the Order. Come back to the phoenix. The clues are there.

There's no reason why Ollivander shouldn't be that old, how old is Dumbledore, for example.

Okay so I missed the bit in GoF where it's said that Harry and Voldemorts wand feathers came from Fawkes, but my original argument remains - those wands have had many different owners over the centuries, and that this is the Order of the Phoenix.

I don't think the Order of the Phoenix refers to wand cores. It's a good theory (I kind of wished I'd thought it up, instead of automatically assuming it's just a bunch a people trying to fight Voldemort), but the facts don't add up. The main reason being Fawkes only gave two feathers. I remember Mr. Olliver telling Harry that there was only one phoenix that had given only one other feather, and that was to Voldemort's wand. As phoenix feather is a main wand core, it doesn't seem likely at all that Mr. Ollivander would have even told Harry that this was an option, (I know no one was thinking that, though; I'm mostly saying it to get my own head straight.) and a phoenix feather in a wand would have been a very big deal. I don't really remember anyone else having a phoenix feather in his wand, but I don't have the books handy, and I'm much too lazy to go and try to find them. :)
Something to support this theory would be that getting a phoenix feather in your wand is quite rare, and then all the heir things would fall into place. Again, the fact that nobody seems to have made a very big deal about Harry's wand (simply because he's got a phoenix feather for a core, NOT that it's from the same phoenix as Voldemort's) implies that that's not the case, although it's certainly not enough evidence to bash the theory. On instinct, though, it doesn't seem right to me.
One could also say that other feathers were taken from "Fawkes", just not in the same incarnation (mme.ravenclaw explains it much better than I). But Dumbledore tells Harry that the core of Harry's and Voldemort's wand "came from the same phoenix... this phoenix, in fact [Fawkes]." And we know for a fact that Fawkes as risen from his ashes at least once before, so it doesn't seem as J.K. Rowling is treating each of Fawke's incarnations as seperate entites.
So it's unlikely that the Order of the Phoenix refers to wands, but it's very possible it's not what the general consensus seems to be. J.K. loves surprising us. We'll see in June, I guess. :)

I was under the impression Olivander made his own wands. Actually i'm sure he does when examining Cedric's wand he said '...magnifecent creature, 12 hands, at least... nearly gored me with its horn'. Though the Pheonix on the cover was missing two feathers ( so it probably was Fawkes) I don't think the Order has to do with those two wands.

I'm thinking a new thought so bear with me...What if the order of the phoenix has something to deal with both the wand cores and a Dubmledore lead group? It seems that Fawkes is a very intergral part of the whole series. But why Fawkes? Does Fawkes possess some special ability beyond other phonexes? How did Dumbledore get Fawkes? Is there some special reason Dumbledore has Fawkes? Was it before or after Olivander got the feathers to make those two wands?
Did he make both wands at that same time(probally)?

What do you think? Ouch my brain hurts... not too sure what I am thinking yet...

I don't think the fact that the Phoenix is Fawkes has any significance other than he happens to be the bird from which Harry and Voldemorts wand cores came from - though I maintain that it was in a much earlier incarnation. I think it's much more basic - the two feathers represent good and evil. Over the centuries there have been immensely powerful good wizards who have all owned the wand now owned by Harry, and there have been immensely powerful bad wizards who have all owned the wand now owned by Voldemort. Every wizard who has ever owned either of these two wands, whether good or evil, are all part of the Order of the Phoenix.

If Harry's wand is so important then why was it in some random box in Ollivander's store? Wouldn't it have been in a vault or in the safekeeping of somebody?

Originally posted by mme.ravenclaw (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288879#post288879))
I am only going to comment on the missing feathers on the UK book cover. Phoenixes reguvinate. They are an all male species that are born from their father's ashes. We do not know how many times this has hapened with in the fifty or so years that has passed between Harry and Voldemort's school days, but what we do knwo is that Harry has seen this happen at least once, hich means that the phoenix that gave Harry and Voldemort his feathers no longer is living, but his son is. Ergo, the phoenix (which is essentially the same bird, yet still has it's own qualities) is either the past encarnation of Fawkes, or gives two more feathers. But it cannot be the present version of Fawkes as he himself has not given harry and Voldemort (well, really Mr. Olivander) his feathers, but it may be his father that is depicted on the cover, thus making it a memory.


Did Dumbledoor say what "Fawlke's" name was at the end of CoS. In GoF the phonix is referred to "this phonix". Therefore if the phonixis name wasnt mentioned this theory may be correct.How many times in 35 years to a phonix resurrect because Sirius Black , Remus Lupin and James and Harry are the only people in the past 35 years who seem to be new people of the order of the phonix.

I'm going to merge this with the thread MadMagic mentioned.

If you're unsure whether a topic has been discussed previously, please use the search (http://www.cosforums.com/a/search.php) function located at the top left-hand corner of your screen.

Thanks -- I'll merge the threads now. :)

Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288950#post288950))
All the previous UK book covers show considerable detail of significant scenes or events in the stories. It cannot be plausible that the artist works without a detailed brief. You have to look at the illustration in conjunction with the title - OotP. What is the origin of the Order. Come back to the phoenix. The clues are there.

There's no reason why Ollivander shouldn't be that old, how old is Dumbledore, for example.



Dumbledore is 100 and something. Ollivander would have to be much, much older than that. There's a difference in believability.

The UK book covers - either the previous artists were given a briefing or they were told exactly what to draw without any reference to the books, but the artist for the Order of the Phoenix was not let in on anything that happens. It's easy to tell when you compare the artwork to the detailed work of Mary GrandPre, to whom secrets were divulged. Some would also call the fact that the UK covers display just a phoenix 'obvious' and there is no background detail at all.

I still think (s)he was just told to draw a phoenix, or was told to use the imagination.

In other words, it's probably not too worthwhile to try to scrape clues from the UK dust sheet.

Sorry, perhaps I'm rather dimwitted tonight, but how can you tell that the bird is missing two feathers? I found a large, detailed picture of the cover (you can view that here (http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/)) and, quite frankly, I fail to see how the bird is missing any feathers, let along tail feathers. There are no discernible gaps or missing parts of its tail...were we ever told that phoenixes only have five tail feathers?

Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=290150#post290150))
Sorry, perhaps I'm rather dimwitted tonight, but how can you tell that the bird is missing two feathers? I found a large, detailed picture of the cover (you can view that here (http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/)) and, quite frankly, I fail to see how the bird is missing any feathers, let along tail feathers. There are no discernible gaps or missing parts of its tail...were we ever told that phoenixes only have five tail feathers?


The placement of its three big 'peacock' feathers is odd. It looks like there should be a couple more to bulk up one side, otherwise the tail is slightly wonky.

But that could be unintentionally done, of course.

Originally posted by ArabellaBlack (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288955#post288955))
I don't think the Order of the Phoenix refers to wand cores. It's a good theory (I kind of wished I'd thought it up, instead of automatically assuming it's just a bunch a people trying to fight Voldemort), but the facts don't add up. The main reason being Fawkes only gave two feathers. I remember Mr. Olliver telling Harry that there was only one phoenix that had given only one other feather, and that was to Voldemort's wand. As phoenix feather is a main wand core, it doesn't seem likely at all that Mr. Ollivander would have even told Harry that this was an option, (I know no one was thinking that, though; I'm mostly saying it to get my own head straight.) and a phoenix feather in a wand would have been a very big deal. I don't really remember anyone else having a phoenix feather in his wand, but I don't have the books handy, and I'm much too lazy to go and try to find them. :)
Something to support this theory would be that getting a phoenix feather in your wand is quite rare, and then all the heir things would fall into place. Again, the fact that nobody seems to have made a very big deal about Harry's wand (simply because he's got a phoenix feather for a core, NOT that it's from the same phoenix as Voldemort's) implies that that's not the case, although it's certainly not enough evidence to bash the theory. On instinct, though, it doesn't seem right to me.
One could also say that other feathers were taken from "Fawkes", just not in the same incarnation (mme.ravenclaw explains it much better than I). But Dumbledore tells Harry that the core of Harry's and Voldemort's wand "came from the same phoenix... this phoenix, in fact [Fawkes]." And we know for a fact that Fawkes as risen from his ashes at least once before, so it doesn't seem as J.K. Rowling is treating each of Fawke's incarnations as seperate entites.
So it's unlikely that the Order of the Phoenix refers to wands, but it's very possible it's not what the general consensus seems to be. J.K. loves surprising us. We'll see in June, I guess. :)


You sum up my feelings quite nicely, ArabellaBlack, well stated.

im confused. why is all the words blue. :(

So Sorry, I posted the link as the Search link. All the Search Words are highlighted. I've fixed the link from your thread...Sorry:sorry:

OK, I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the Order of the Phoenix is good news for Harry. Consider the book titles so far -

PS/SS - Harry nearly got killed trying to keep it out of Voldie's hands.

COS - Harry nearly got killed by the basilisk while trying to rescue Ginny from the Chamber.

POA - Harry thinks he's about to be killed most of the book, until he finds out who Sirius Black really is.

GOF - Harry nearly gets killed during each task.

Phoenixes die and then are reborn from their own ashes, as happened to Voldie at the end of GOF. I know, Fawkes is Dumbledore's bird, and the cores of the two wands came from Fawkes. Also, the name "Order of the Phoenix" sounds very noble, but I still think it's trouble for Harry.

IMO, it's much more likely that the Order is Voldie's inner circle, who, no doubt, will try to finish off Harry in book 5. And book 6. And book 7, until they finally figure out that it ain't gonna happen!

Besides, if OotP refers to the bad guys, it makes the title of Book 5 sound a lot more ominous, just as the all-blue cover does.

Actually, I like blue, so I don't think its ominous at all :)

Pheonixes are things of beauty, and Fawkes has fought against Voldemort in COS, and it was a pheonix song in GoF that helped Harry through the Priori Incantem part of the duel.

Pheonixes are too noble to be part of the Dark Side. And of course Harry is going to be in danger in OoTP, whether or not the Order is good or not. He's always in danger, and now Voldemort is back. Why should this book be any different?

Voldemort's inner circle is called the Death Eaters. It's not impossible that such a group would have another name, but there's no particular reason why. In any case, phoenix song strikes fear into evil hearts (or some words like that), so dark wizards would hardly be fond of the bird.

I believe somewhere in the books that Voldemort's followers are called the Dark Order.

Crouch calls Voldemort's following the Dark Order. The Death Eaters are his inner circle.

Originally posted by Goldie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=326770#post326770))
OK, I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the Order of the Phoenix is good news for Harry. Consider the book titles so far -

PS/SS - Harry nearly got killed trying to keep it out of Voldie's hands.

COS - Harry nearly got killed by the basilisk while trying to rescue Ginny from the Chamber.

POA - Harry thinks he's about to be killed most of the book, until he finds out who Sirius Black really is.

GOF - Harry nearly gets killed during each task.

Phoenixes die and then are reborn from their own ashes, as happened to Voldie at the end of GOF. I know, Fawkes is Dumbledore's bird, and the cores of the two wands came from Fawkes. Also, the name "Order of the Phoenix" sounds very noble, but I still think it's trouble for Harry.

IMO, it's much more likely that the Order is Voldie's inner circle, who, no doubt, will try to finish off Harry in book 5. And book 6. And book 7, until they finally figure out that it ain't gonna happen!

Besides, if OotP refers to the bad guys, it makes the title of Book 5 sound a lot more ominous, just as the all-blue cover does.


uh oh
I think you're on to something here. (sigh) I'll get my eraser. (wanders back toward drawing board.)

Anyone here know about Guy Fawkes and bonfire day? I think it's Nov 5. Something about blowing up Parliament? jkr hinted that she got DD phoenix's name from this guy. (no pun intended)

Goldie makes a good point....ArabellaBlack and I were discussing this..and she had made a post in a another thread...After she said it....I was like.."Wow! That could really happen" I was surprised that it hadn't occured to me before..because it does make the blue-ness of the cover necessary.

Originally posted by ArabellaBlack (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=328860#post328860))
I'll give my two strongest pieces of evidence for the OotP being dark: Voldemort has a phoenix feather wand core, and it does seem the sick and twisted Voldemort way of doing things to name his order after a phoenix. After all, he was "reborn", and what are phoenixes known for?


The being reborn thing makes so much sense. It would be just the thing a book villan like Voldemort would do. Especially since he knows all about the wand cores...and Dumbledore's pheonix.
This all contradicts the "Old Crowd" thing though because I always thought that the old crowd was the OotP..it just kinda fit....now it can be either one orthe other...cuz there cant be 2 of them...
~L

[quote]Originally posted by Goldie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=326770#post326770))
OK, I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the Order of the Phoenix is good news for Harry. Consider the book titles so far -

PS/SS - Harry nearly got killed trying to keep it out of Voldie's hands.

COS - Harry nearly got killed by the basilisk while trying to rescue Ginny from the Chamber.

POA - Harry thinks he's about to be killed most of the book, until he finds out who Sirius Black really is.

GOF - Harry nearly gets killed during each task.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That was brilliant! Changed my mind completely about the OOtP being a group of nice folks trying to defeat dark wizards.

But now, because I'm obsessed with Harry's natural talent at resisting Dark Arts and his native quick thinking and problem solving under pressure, I wonder if the OOtP is a secret Society and only those wizards with remarkable natural abilities are invited to join, whether they are practicing good or dark magic. So, maybe Volde and Dumbledore are both members of this Order and who knows who else, but I'll bet James and Sirius were included.

If they weren't included I'm sure they are now. At least unofficially.

If this order is just for particularly powerful wizards, will Harry someday succeed DD as the Grand Whatever and perhaps inherit Fawkes? Is that why DD was wanted for minister of magic but prefered to be at Hogwarts grooming the next generation of potential members of this Secret Society? How do Mr and Mrs Weasley fit in? They know all about it. Maybe they are both members.

Well it's possible he'll get Fawkes. He is really loyal and he's connected through his wand.

I don't know if the Weasleys are current members but may be later.
I'm sure they'll have an active role on Dumbledore's side.

I'm not sure what the order of the phoenix is - i dont think its an award tho. The 5th November thing is very interesting - id forgotten what JK had said til i read posts about it.
For those who dont know it, theres a song about Bonfire Night and Guy Fawkes
"Remember, remember the 5th November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot"

So im guessing the order of the phoenix has something to do with the plotting of killing someone and a scheme.
Problem is, both Voldemort and Harry have wands from Fawkes the Phoenix - so it could be a plot to kill Voldemort ..... or it could be a plot to kill Harry.

Eeek! i cant wait to find out! less than a month now!! :)
jenni x

Was it guy fawkes who wanted to blow up parliament or did he foil the plot?

I've been reading all your posts for a couple weeks and have decided to put my two cents in ...

Regarding "Order of the Phoenix" ... as we saw in COS, Fawkes helped Harry because he showed his loyalty to Dumbledore. I think the OOP will be a group who show their alliance to Dumbledore now ... perhaps his disagreements with Fudge will get him sacked as headmaster.

Regarding the "death" ... won't be Mr. or Mrs. Weasley ... that would cause too much comparison to the death of Harry's parents. Part of what sets Harry apart is because his parents died. To have his best friend's parent die would be too similar.

I saw someone else post that they thought one day Mr. Wealsey would be the Minister of Magic. I agree.

There's defintiely more to the Weasleys than meet the eye. Mrs Weasleys rambling memories of her schooldays and they're obviously insiders trusted by DD at least as much as McGonagal. They know what's going on at the deeper levels we haven't been allowed to see.

yet.

The Weasleys are surrogate parents to Harry.

Every time I watch COS, I get the feeling that Harry's the one Molly didn't give birth to, but he's hers just the same.

Originally posted by Goldie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=341663#post341663))
The Weasleys are surrogate parents to Harry.

Every time I watch COS, I get the feeling that Harry's the one Molly didn't give birth to, but he's hers just the same.


There are lots of warm feelings there. What amuses me is how her husband and sons, all twice her size, cower when she's unhappy with them. But when she thought something had happened to the twins, all she could think of was the last thing she had said to them.
Amazing and powerful witch.

I was rereading PS, the part in the beginning when Dumbledore checks his watch when Hagrid had not arrived. There were 12 hands on his watch. Could his watch be like the Weasley's clock for the wizards in the OOTP? Maybe Hagrid was one of the hands and he was on Travelling? Maybe that's how he knew James and Lily were killed?

Interesting idea lemondrop, it is a good explanation of the watch, as good as any other I've heard about it yet.

Originally posted by lemondrop (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=341715#post341715))
I was rereading PS, the part in the beginning when Dumbledore checks his watch when Hagrid had not arrived. There were 12 hands on his watch. Could his watch be like the Weasley's clock for the wizards in the OOTP? Maybe Hagrid was one of the hands and he was on Travelling? Maybe that's how he knew James and Lily were killed?


oooOOOoooo that's interesting.

well! i think it's a group of the greatest witches and wizards in london. i think that it's strong and powerful but the dark lord is more powerful if he gets the trusts of the dmentors and giants. but i think dumbledore's side will win against them and harry want revenge for what lord voldemort did to his parents and wormtail's life was once saved by harry so it's strong..


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"we are strong as we are united and as weak as we are divided"

my theory is that the order of the phoenix is a group of people set up when voldie was at full strenght (just like mrogoth said)

i think you need to do something great or heroic to become part of this group (as only the best will do)

like order of merlin. i think when you become an order of merlin whatever class you automatically become a member of the order of merlin. like a club of allies or something. and the higher the class eg, second class. the higher your rank or position, you are in the club. (if that makes sense)

thats my theory anyway. :tu:

Well I cant find it anymore, but someone somewhere said something like:

SS: Harry almost gets killed keeping V from getting the SS

CoS: Harry almost gets killed when he goes into the cos

PoA: Harry almost gets killed trying to avoid being killed by the POA

GoF: Harry almost gets killed when his name mysteriously comes out of
the GoF

OotP: ?! Something that could almost kill Harry? Again?

Wish I could remember who said this and where so I could give credit for the idea. It makes a lot of sense.

there is a good point there, the chance of another NEAR DEATH experience is pretty high. so lets say a gang of good wizards and witches go against the death eaters, and harry is put in the middle somehow (falling into trouble again) then - that seems most reasonable to me

way to come up with some very good responses people.

Welcome, hopetheelephant, to the forum!
:welcome:
I look forward to seeing more from you here.
Happy posting!

My initial feeling is that the Order of the Phoenix is a good group. However, all the books seem to HP and something against him.
PS/SS - the stone was the center of conflict because Voldermort wanted it
COS - Tom Riddle was after Harry
POA - everyone thought Sirius was after Harry
GOF - the goblet picked his name
So, I don't know if it is good or bad. I do think it is a group of people though.

I know I'm wrong, but I'm standing by my initial prediction.

The Order of the Phoenix are the steps toward immortality that Voldemort will try and complete.

Originally posted by Bilbo (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=342864#post342864))
The Order of the Phoenix are the steps toward immortality that Voldemort will try and complete.


Do you think that Harry might try to take the same steps?

Or do you think that we'll be seeing Voldemort or someone else taking the steps?

I think the order of the pheonix is like a group, but not necessarily to just. I get the feeling it is like a family thing, passed down from parent to child, and all are part of the order. This may have come from a frackas in olden times where somebody saved a pheonix and as a reward, the pheonix started the order off. It has to be something powerful as well methinks (pheonixes are powerful), but I don't really know what. I also think if there is an order of the phoenix, there will be like an evil order to counter it.

Originally posted by Katze (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=342941#post342941))
Do you think that Harry might try to take the same steps?

Or do you think that we'll be seeing Voldemort or someone else taking the steps?


I think we'll see Voldemort trying accomplish the tasks. However, I also think that Harry maybe tempted toward immortality. Hopefully, he won't choose it though.

The idea that the OotP is a group of especially talented magical people make some sense. It's not composed of strictly "good" or dark" wizards. Rather, it's an order of adepts. By this definition, DD and the big V may both be members of the order. Harry seems to be a
shoo-in. The Grand High Poombah is maybe chosen by the Phoenix itself, and currently, the phoenix chooses to be with DD. I don't think Fawkes is a pet or an emblem. He seems to be the central power the order revolves around.

i also think the order is a powerful group of witches and wizards (and perhaps other creatures) that formed against voldemort. but now lots of the members are dead or really old so they're gonna need new people... i really think fawkes has something to do with it....

I used to think that the Order of the Phoenix was an award higher than the Order of Merlin; but just recently, I found a Chocolate Frog card copy of Merlin. At the end of the description, it reads, "Merlin wanted wizards to help non-wizards, so he created the Order of Merlin. The Order made rules against using magic on non-wizards." From that, not only is the Order of Merlin a type of award, but it is a group. Since I find these cards reliable (because the company ask JKR for her approval on such info), I now think that the OotP is a group/award thing like the OoM, but more elite.

I'm finding patterns as I wander through different threads. James and Lily's profession. Lily's wand good for charms. James and his friends invented the marauder's map. Did James and Lily's profession have to do with developing charms and countercurses that may have been aimed at stopping the big V? Did they protect Harry with some of their inventions and is that how he survived the death curse?
And is the OotP a secret society of the most talented and powerful witches and wizards, good or evil? If so, then Tom Riddle was easily a member, and probably so were James and Lily Potter. Choices are more important than abilities. Fawkes feathers are in two wands two different choices.
Another thing I've noticed is that there are some people who are not afraid to say Voldemort's name. So far, I've got Harry, DD and Sirius Black. (Any others?) I wonder if this is a way to identify members of the OotP?

sleepy
g'night.

We already know why he survived the curse. Because Lily died to save him