Is Harry capable of killing? Will Harry let Voldemort live?

I'm not sure how to (advanced) search this.
So plz post any thread pertaining to this particular title.

Harry did not kill Pettigrew and did not let SB/RL do it either
so we know harry's kind nature however the prophecy does say
that one must die. So in the final second do you think harry can "pull the trigger"? Will he show the same softness as he did during the PoA scene?

THere are others ways to make LV crumble as AD has hinted. So will noble harry be willing to. i'm sure if LV killed some close people he would but lets say he didn't.

Now if harry did let LV live and we know that AD said there is a special bond that grows between 2 people in such a situation do you think LV would attack harry after harry shows him some affection(friendly)?

Harry will kill LV! He knows he has too. The boys life has been a living hell because of this man and don't forget, LV killed Harry's parents and Sirius' death had to do with LV too.

He was still confused and half out of his mind from all the info he had just recieved from SB and RL and wasn't thinking straight when he had a chance to kill PP and he was only 13. That's really young to kill somebody, and I don't think he would have killed SB if RL wouldn't have been there either. Killing just insn't part of Harry, but he knows he has to kill LV. And how human is LV anyway? It's kinda different with him than with PP isn't it?

Killing LV isn't just for himself but for the entire wizarding world, so it won't be a selfish act and he knows now that he is the only one that can do it.

OH! and on the PP bit, he did have regrets for not killing him when he had the chance.

yes true but who would you have more of a grudge against
1)the person who sought after your parents(we still don't know why,3x was it) and killed them
2) the person supposedly a best friend and betrayed your parents that led to their death

It is a hard i understnad but if he let PP go..i see your point but i kind of feel that
person 2 i would hold more of a grudge against.

Harry blames Voldemort for everything. Remember, after he watched the pensieve scene in which Barty Crouch Jr. was being led away, he concluded that the reason all those lives were destroyed, all those families torn apart, it all came back to Voldemort.

Pulling the trigger probably involves the AK curse. And we were given a good clue in book 5 as to what may happen at the end if this curse comes into use. You need to really mean it to accomplish an Unforgivable Curse. Harry has got to hate Voldemort utterly and that leads me to believe that LV will do something so terrible that it will arouse a great anger and the willingness to end a life within Harry. I've also theorised before that at this point Harry's mental defences will be down with the rush of emotions and before his body is destroyed, LV may seek the one place he can escape to which would lead us to a true final battle.

I'm not 100% sure what Dumbledoor says to Harry at the end of book 5, but I remember him mentioning something about love and how that Harry had large amounts of it in him. He also said that love was the thing that LV couldn't understand and therefore despised. He also stated, I believe, that love contained great power.

So I think that when it comes down to it, Harry will have to make the choice rather or not to kill LV. And I believe that he will tap into this love dumbledoor says he has and spare LV hoping that he would see the error in his ways. LV would then have to deal with that fact that he can not destroy Harry and he will be unable to fathom Harry's willingness to let him live. And ultimately end his own life.

I believe the prophecy stated “one can not live while the other remains” so that’s what leads me to believe that LV won’t be able to live with the fact that Harry spared him.

I am sure harry will kill him, when he's older and he has the chance. He has to do what he has to do. If he does something else, which doesn't kill him, Volemort could always come back.

I disagree that Harry has to kill Voldemort or that it's his duty to kill him or anything like that. The Prophecy wasn't his instructions, it was just saying what will happen - whether Harry likes it or not. And what will happen could go either way, or could happen by a number of different ways.

I agree with you NeuroComp - I'm not saying he won't, but I'm unsure that he could. I don't think Harry is a killer. And it is very plausible Voldemort could die at the hands of Harry, without Harry doing the outright killing. Harry could just be the key figure in it.

Harry will be able to because of whatever power DD lets him in on. But I don't think it'll matter too much because Harry has to die too-- I imagine it might be a double-elimination matter.

But Harry does posess the power, if simply because the prophecy foretold it.

Harry has 'power the Dark Lord knows not'. Surely that can't be simply the power to kill. Voldemort knows that kind of power all too well.

I think that Harry could kill Voldemort but I don't think it would be easy. It's easy to believe Voldemort is just a monster - he doesn't even look human anymore - but he didn't used to be. Voldemort was not much different than Harry once. I think that could make things difficult.

And imagine if Voldemort pleads for his life. Imagine if, just for a tiny moment, he looks weak and human.

Harry's not a killing machine. He's just a boy!

The way I see it, Harry has no choice. The prophecy clearly stated the one cannot die while the other lives, hence, if Harry does not kill Voldemort, then no-one else can. And, if Harry allows him to live, Voldy will continue the fight until Harry eventually dies, and then the entire wizarding world is stuffed - Voldy wins (remember, Voldy made himself unkillable once - he can do it again). So, for the good of the world, Harry must kill Voldemort.

As for showing Voldemort mercy...Mercy is such an alien concept to Voldy that he simply won't respond to it, even if Harry lets him live. Voldemort will kill Harry the instant Harry turns his back. There's no reasoning with the man, he's pure evil, and you just can't be reasonable with someone like that. In war, you take your enemy out - no mercy, no sweet endings - you put him six feet under because if you don't, you'll be the one in the coffin. Either Harry kills Voldy or somone else does, but Voldemort must die.

Voldemort will die unless Harry does, I think we've all got that clear. However, like several have pointed out, Voldemort killing Harry does not necessarily mean Harry pressing a trigger on a gun or shouting Avada Kedavra at Voldemort. I don't think Harry will take that active a part in the killing. Instead, I think it will be something about a choice Harry makes (it all comes back to choices), that will settle it.

And about Harry not being able to actually kill even Voldemort because he wouldn't have the heart to, I don't think so either, but before OotP I don't think any of us would have though he would ever put the cruciatous on anyone. Which he did.

I think harry will have no choice but to "pull the trigger".
If he's alone in one room (or elsewhere) with lord voldemort then he simply has to do it. otherwise lord voldemort will do it right away.
I know harry will have lots of doubts and fear but he knows his mission and his responsibility to the whole world so he's got no chance, has he?

... oh dear, I can't wait to read the end ...

by the way, great thread!!

my belief is that Harry will most certainly kill Voldemort, but he will not kill Tom Riddle. There is a difference. And the prophecy only refers to the 'Dark Lord'. you can destroy the dark lord without destroying Tom, though Tom may die in the process.

He'd be a fool if he does! Lord Voldemort isn't going to give in. If Harry defeats him he's hardly going to be a noble villain is he? He's not going to say "Oh, I'm sorry Harry, if you let me live I'll never bother you again" HA! Pur-lease! LOL

The way I see it, the final confrontation between Harry and Voldie will be a fight to the death. Thats pretty much all there is to it. Voldie tried to kill him at a year old, so I don't think he will stop now. You have to remember also the prophecy "... neither can live whilst the other survives...." which implies that the death of one or the other is essential.Personally I hope its Voldie, but with JKR you never can tell.......

Veq.

Oh when I say "pull the trigger" i didn't mean necessarily the killing curse...because AD has hinted at worse things then that. What I meant was will he show him mercy rather than death hence the 1st Q "will harry let LV live"

I think both Harry and Voldemort are going to die. The mystery is how it's going to happen. But I don't see it being as simply as Harry Avada Kedavra-ing Voldemort.

Now maybe i should've put this in my original
"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...
born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the 7th month dies...
and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark
Lord knows not... and EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE OTHER FOR NEITHER
CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the 7th month dies..."

Now the part I capitalized is crucial...does "THE HAND" refer to the AK curse?

also VEQUIHELIN: if voldemort was strip of his powers and turned muggle, do you think harry will still finish him?

my belief is that Harry will most certainly kill Voldemort, but he will not kill Tom Riddle. There is a difference. And the prophecy only refers to the 'Dark Lord'. you can destroy the dark lord without destroying Tom, though Tom may die in the process.


hey wow, I've never thought of that. really possible indeed. this would lead us in a completely other direction ...
it would perhaps be a more "fair" fight for harry but maybe it's even harder for him to kill (or "pull the trigger" on) tom riddle than voldemort - especially in an emotional way. not tom riddle killed harry's parents, formed the group of the death eaters and again and again tried to kill him, voldemort did. (expect poa, there it was tom riddle but also not really him, much more voldemort's memory in person of the young tom ...)
I know a little complicated and confusing. sorry ...

I think both Harry and Voldemort are going to die. The mystery is how it's going to happen. But I don't see it being as simply as Harry Avada Kedavra-ing Voldemort.
I agree, I don't think It will be as simple as an AK. Although I am avioding postulating exactly how he will go because it will spoil the 'true' ending for me! LOL

VEQUIHELIN: if voldemort was strip of his powers and turned muggle, do you think harry will still finish him?
And again I reiterate: He'd be a fool if he doesn't! Lord Voldemort still has loyal supporters (although how loyal they are should he lose the ability to torture/kill them remains to be seen) who are more than capable of exacting swift and brutal vengeance. How reticent do you think Lucius Malfoy would be in stepping into the breach???? I think that Voldmort is evil (which is an expletive-less understatement) and that It doesn't matter whether he is a Squggle (my own word; a cross between a Squib and a Muggle - Remember you heard it from me first!! LOL) or a Wizard, he will still be evil and manipulative and in all of his immortality and most-powerful-wizard-in-the-world spells is it not reasonable to assume that if he's protected himself magically from true death then he would have protected himself from losing his powers. After all, when he was 'vanquished' by the power of Harry's mothers love he didn't lose his magical powers did he???

Now the part I capitalized is crucial...does "THE HAND" refer to the AK curse?
You make a very interesting point, it could be a subtle reference by JKR to the method of Voldemorts demise, or it could be simply the result of the turn of phrase used. '.....at the Hand of the other...' is the proper and English way of speaking and refering to a persons culpability in a particular situation.

Veq.

my belief is that Harry will most certainly kill Voldemort, but he will not kill Tom Riddle. There is a difference. And the prophecy only refers to the 'Dark Lord'. you can destroy the dark lord without destroying Tom, though Tom may die in the process.

The problem with that theory is that the books have already established that Tom Riddle was just as evil as his adult version (Lord Voldemort). Therefore, if Harry was to somehow kill off Lord Voldemort and be left with Tom Riddle, a very evil person would still remain.

The problem with that theory is that the books have already established that Tom Riddle was just as evil as his adult version (Lord Voldemort). Therefore, if Harry was to somehow kill off Lord Voldemort and be left with Tom Riddle, a very evil person would still remain.
But he'd be a mortal person then, and therefore vanquishable.

What about Priori Incantatem? If Harry and Voldemort engage in battle, their wands won't work against each other. I suppose Harry could just kill Voldemort while Voldemort's not ready, but he doesn't seem to be as unmerciful as that.

Which brings me back to what would happen if Harry destroyed Voldemort, leaving Tom. Harry could essentially put an end only to Voldemort, and still fulfill the prophecy, as the prophecy refers to "the Dark Lord". Voldemort would be vanquished by Harry's mercy, and we would be left with Tom, who is arguably a completely separate person from Voldemort, and not necessarily Harry's responsibilty.

But he'd be a mortal person then, and therefore vanquishable.

What about Priori Incantatem? If Harry and Voldemort engage in battle, their wands won't work against each other. I suppose Harry could just kill Voldemort while Voldemort's not ready, but he doesn't seem to be as unmerciful as that.

Which brings me back to what would happen if Harry destroyed Voldemort, leaving Tom. Harry could essentially put an end only to Voldemort, and still fulfill the prophecy, as the prophecy refers to "the Dark Lord". Voldemort would be vanquished by Harry's mercy, and we would be left with Tom, who is arguably a completely separate person from Voldemort, and not necessarily Harry's responsibilty.

Even if you were to make Voldemort mortal again, would it be a good idea to "leave" him? Wouldn't he just go back to seeking immortality? He's already come back from the dead so-to-speak several times. The only way to stop Voldemort is to destroy him for good. There's not going to be any sort of redemption for him. Tom Riddle is not like Anakin Skywalker, who started off good, became bad, and later went back to good. He was pretty much evil to begin with, as COS established.

Even if you were to make Voldemort mortal again, would it be a good idea to "leave" him? Wouldn't he just go back to seeking immortality? He's already come back from the dead so-to-speak several times. The only way to stop Voldemort is to destroy him for good. There's not going to be any sort of redemption for him. Tom Riddle is not like Anakin Skywalker, who started off good, became bad, and later went back to good. He was pretty much evil to begin with, as COS established.
Good point, but I didn't really mean by Tom not being Harry's responsibility that Tom could just walk free. I meant to say (I didn't make it clear :blush:) that Harry doesn't necessarily have to destroy Tom, only Voldemort, and in that way Harry won't be a murderer, so to speak. Wizards on the scene, as an example, could take care of Tom.

The problem with that theory is that the books have already established that Tom Riddle was just as evil as his adult version (Lord Voldemort). Therefore, if Harry was to somehow kill off Lord Voldemort and be left with Tom Riddle, a very evil person would still remain.

It's silly to imagine that he just woke up one morning and decided to be evil. Something drove him to become what he is now (and I'm not saying that would excuse him).

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that there must have been a time when he was just a boy named Tom Riddle. His mum didn't give birth to a monster.

yes i agree...i spoke of this in another thread. Unlike Tom Riddle Jr. Harry has been blessed with love of friends, and family friends when he came into the magical world.
Recall the CoS scene with Tom riddle and Dippet and their discussion of tom's orphanage. Some may say what about the Dursleys ...but remmebr how often does he stay at the dursleys...at most a month maybe? Plus Harry's been told that his parents were in love. While Tom knows that his dad rejected his mom when he found out she was of magic.

As I see it, Tom Riddle is Voldemort. Tom Riddle is the heir of Syltherin. Voldemort is the name Tom came up with so that he would not be classed as a half-blood and be treated as such by the pure-bloods. Look at the reaction given by Bellatrix when Harry refered to Voldemort as such. TR is the Dark Lord stated in the profecy. So, in saying that Harry could kill the personna of the man(Voldemort) and that would forfill his destiny is impossible. That is more or less saying- kill the nickname and the person dies.

No, I believe Harry will kill Tom. He only has the choice of kill or be killed. With this it is not murder, it is survival. And Harry is good at surviving.

As I read these post the one thing that came to mind was that Voldemort wanted to become the greatest wizard of all and to do that he would kill anyone in his way. So that, to me at least, means he didn't care about anyone or anything. Harry on the other hand cares about everyone and everything. Something Voldemort obviously doesn't understand. Harry would only kill someone if someone else was threatened. I don't think Harry would ever kill for revenge. Even though Voldemort killed his parents and manipulated him, I think it would be hard for Harry to "just kill him." Harry has a conscience, something which Voldemort lacks, that won't allow him to do just kill someone.

But he'd be a mortal person then, and therefore vanquishable.

What about Priori Incantatem? If Harry and Voldemort engage in battle, their wands won't work against each other. I suppose Harry could just kill Voldemort while Voldemort's not ready, but he doesn't seem to be as unmerciful as that.

about the Tom and Voldie being different people thing....that's honestly not the way i see that. If Harry kills Voldie he kills Tom. Tom was just angry at life and everything associated with it. So throught that he changed into Voldemort. He had nothing to make him do otherwise. No one loved him, or cared about what happened to him. He's bitter.

AlsoAbout Priori Incantatem....that means that Harry can't kill Voldie with his wand. It won't work. The spells will backfire. You can do wandless magic as you all know (I assume at least) so Harry's going to have to master that art if he is ever going to kill Voldie i think. Who knows there may be another way that i have not even thought about....but....we'll see eh?

He will definetaly not hesated i mean like its says one of them must die, so its a life of death suitaion not just harry but kinda for the whole world if Tom kills him. With Pettigrew it wasnt that a life or death suitaion

first off DON"T JUMP DOWN MY BACK FOR MY THEORY because I myself think it's kinda stupid. But what if something happened with TIME( the time turner thing that one of the death eaters fell back into and got a baby's head) Perhaps harry would have to kill him then.... i noe i noe it sounds stupid. What i really wish is tht harry cold go back in time and kill voldemort before he became LV or right before he killed harry's parents.... but that is another thing we noe is never gonna happen... srry i'm just rambling

AlsoAbout Priori Incantatem....that means that Harry can't kill Voldie with his wand. It won't work. The spells will backfire. You can do wandless magic as you all know (I assume at least) so Harry's going to have to master that art if he is ever going to kill Voldie i think. Who knows there may be another way that i have not even thought about....but....we'll see eh?
Aha...ok, I wasn't sure about Harry being able to use his wand against Voldie even when I was writing about it. Thanks for clearing it up!

What i really wish is tht harry cold go back in time and kill voldemort before he became LV or right before he killed harry's parents.... but that is another thing we noe is never gonna happen... srry i'm just rambling
Hmm, interesting theory, but if Harry were to go back in time to before Voldemort became Voldemort, I don't think he'd be able to kill him more so than in the present. If anything, seeing Voldemort before his disfiguration would make it even harder for him, because Harry'd be looking at someone very similar to himself. He wouldn't be seeing the evil Voldemort that everyone's come to fear.

first off DON"T JUMP DOWN MY BACK FOR MY THEORY because I myself think it's kinda stupid. But what if something happened with TIME( the time turner thing that one of the death eaters fell back into and got a baby's head) Perhaps harry would have to kill him then.... i noe i noe it sounds stupid. What i really wish is tht harry cold go back in time and kill voldemort before he became LV or right before he killed harry's parents.... but that is another thing we noe is never gonna happen... srry i'm just rambling

I'm sorry if you felt that i was jumping down your throat...i really wasn't i was just stating my opinion on this subject. sorry but i really don't think that would happen. Harry messing with the past that way could screw something up....or...wait....*thinking* i dunno I'm not sure I understand what you're saying....like Harry do something to voldie so he goes back a few years....but in the present? If that is what you mean that is honestly not a half bad idea. But I think that if Harry did that Voldie would still be stronger than he would. And there is still the problem of their wands not working against eachother. But yeah that would put them more on the same level.

AlsoAbout Priori Incantatem....that means that Harry can't kill Voldie with his wand. It won't work. The spells will backfire. You can do wandless magic as you all know (I assume at least) so Harry's going to have to master that art if he is ever going to kill Voldie i think. Who knows there may be another way that i have not even thought about....but....we'll see eh?

I don't believe you can do controlled wandless magic unless the specific spell allows/requires it. The wand focuses the magic.

I also want to say that the Priori Incantatem effect only happens when the two are dueling and both curse each other at the same time. I think Harry can use his wand on Voldemort, or vice versa, if he can do it before Voldemort can fire back at him.

who changed *** name of my thread?

I don't think Harry can defeat Voldie with hate. Does that mean he can't use the AK to kill Voldie? In all the good vs. evil stories, the lesson is the same, one cannot triumph over evil with hate. So for Harry to succeed and not 'turn to the dark side' i don't think he can use the AK, right?

Actually I'm writing my verson of Harry Potter 7...i've already done 6...but I have to use that in my plot. The way I inturpret weather Harry can use the AK curse or not depends on weather he cares at ALL about killing someone. But the thing with Harry is that he does care....When Harry tired to use the Curciatric (i'm sure i spelled that wrong sorry) curse in book five he couldn't do it....for this very reason....the three unforgivable curses seem to depend more on your feelings than any others. But any way Voldie can use the curse because he could care less about anyone else or what happens...he hates everyone. So there is not that little barier holding him back, like there is with Harry. I'm highly doubt that the speculations of a stupid 14 year old fan of the books is actually RIGHT......but...it works for me, at least it will till i know what the real deal is...

Cat beat me to it twice. With Priori Incantatem it is only if it's at the same time. If you want proof, Voldemort cast a couple of spells on Harry in the graveyard prior to their duel, and it worked just great: like the forced bowing for example - which I always remember as being Imperius, but it was probably something else.

And the other thing: I agree that given their shared history, if it's truely necessary for Harry's whole heart to be in killing Voldemort in order to cast AK, it would be very easy for Voldemort to manipulate him out of it.

I don't personally like the idea of it coming down to who can AK whom the fastest. I would find that disappointing, and I'm hoping for a more complex sort of resolution. I know this isn't the prophecy thread (I'm afraid of the prophecy thread) but I think the wording itself is vague enough to allow for lots of different things to happen. I won't go into more detail on that, because I know it's been discussed to death.

My personal preference is for Tom to not be a seperate entity or conciousness from Voldemort, because I think it's much more interesting if he isn't, but that's just my personal preference.

I don't think it's really an option for Voldemort to continue on in his present state, but I do think that there are a lot of ways that this could go other than cold-blooded murder...

He wouldnt be preparing to fight Voldy if he wasnt capable of or willing to kill him, also remmember when Harry found out that Kreacher lied he was about ready to kill him, so I dont think Harry is all that sensitive, but thats just my opinion.

Well Harry is sure a lot more sensative than any of the deatheaters or Voldie....I think you have to care less than he does for the AK curse to work....Harry just wants revenge for his parents death. That isn't enough. Maybe if he had actually known them...he could...but he didn't. Harry hates Voldie because he took away his childhood. But now Harry has things in his life that are good. In that area...it's still just revenge.

And again on the Tom/Voldie thing....i say they are one person...also because in book two...."Tom Morvolo Riddle", could be reworded as "I AM Lord Voldemort"...they are one person....it wasn't "I'll be posessed by Lord Voldemort". Voldie is him he is voldie....

I don't think it will actually come down to who can do AK the fastest. It will probably be something more subtle. Both of them have technically survived AK (the curse that failed) so I don't think it will come to that. I think one of the reasons AK is in there is to make people believe that it will come to AK. In the fifth book, we sort of saw that more things can kill. Sirius wasn't hit with AK, and Madam Pomfrey said that it was a miraclethe stunners to Prof. McGonagol didn't kill her.

Voldy can posess Harry right? Does that mean Harry can posess Voldy as well?

In the DoM, when Voldy posessed Harry, the way Harry got Voldy out of him was thinking of his love for Sirius. And since Voldy can't understand love, he also dispices (sp.) it and it can hurt him in a way.

What if...Harry posesses Voldy and uses his love that he has against him and Voldy can't handle love so he just...I dunno...gets 'vanquished'.

The prophecy never said Harry has to kill voldy, he only has to vanquish him and that probably can be done in other ways than the AK curse...overwhelm him with love, perhaps.

He wouldnt be preparing to fight Voldy if he wasnt capable of or willing to kill him, also remmember when Harry found out that Kreacher lied he was about ready to kill him, so I dont think Harry is all that sensitive, but thats just my opinion.

But Harry is indeed the type who will go into battle with Voldie not knowing how he is going to win. Hasn't he done things like that in the past books?

He has always ended doing what he does because he is thrown into the situation and he has no choice but to do what he can.

I don't think he'll resort to murder, at least not intentionally. I think he'll do what he can to save his life and/or someone else's when thrown into the situation, as fawkes5 aptly put. I won't call it a murder when Voldemort dies in his hands. I'd rather call it fate, something he was born to do. A wee too poetic I know, but I can never see Harry capable of killing someone, unless someone or something too precious to him was taken away from him, enough to make him mad and do a spur-of-the-moment, out-of-control, spontaneous, off the cuff action of revenge.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Harry would kill Voldemort if he had the chance. After all, he did kill his parents and many other people. I just wish there was some way that Sirius could help Harry.

I don't and never have believed that Harry will die within the time limit of the series. (I rather think the pressures of fame are making Daniel Radcliffe a trifle morbid.) :) The prophecy says, to me anyway, that one must kill the other, so since I believe that Harry must survive...must, because all that he has been through demands that he triumph, he must destroy Voldemort. But there is J.K. Rowling's style of misdirection to consider, her method of distracting us with a logical explanation only to give us an even better one as a conclusion. Maybe her jokes about killing Harry off aren't jokes...
Something else that I've thought about is a point Dumbledore brings up a few times - he says that one of Voldemort's weaknesses is that he believes nothing is worse than death. Considering this always conjures for me an image of Voldemort, stripped of all power, sitting in Azkaban as the world celebrates his final defeat - such an end would spare his life. Harry has shown before what a tremendous heart he has, how capable he is of mercy.
But, in conclusion, I think that will not be the case with Voldemort. Voldemort has taken too much from Harry, hurt him too deeply for too long. And Harry's growing up now; he understands more with each passing day what he's capable of and what he's meant to do. He will destroy Voldemort.

~Athlynne~

Do you remember in the fifth book where Dumbledore says that LV's biggest weakness is that he doesn't realize that there are other things that are worse than death? and then Dumbledore says that merely killing LV wouldn't satisfy him. What if instead of killing LV Harry does something worse to him.......but I can't think of what that something worse than death would be. J.K.R seems to mention that weakness an awful lot to be dismissed.

Sticking to the original question of the thread, I think the answer is yes. I think POA clearly shows Harry has within him an anger he may not be able to control, something typical of us guys between 13 - 30. I think it would be an interesting scene, where he contemplates the morality of it and then goes ahead...killing him. The repercussions to Harry himself would be interesting to see, talking on a pyschological level that is.

i don't think that harry will allow voldemort to live. he'll want revenge for killing his parents. harry probably has the power to kill voldemort, but just hasn't realized it yet.

Just to add a quote from OOTP, I think it is:

"We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom," Dumbledore said calmly, continuing to walk towards Voldemort as though he had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up the hall. "Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit "
"- There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!" snarled Voldemort.
" You are quite wrong," said Dumbledore.

The fact that Voldemort is so terrified of what is beyond life would make it the most suitable punishment for him if he were to die, but at the same time, it wouldn't be nearly as heroic as if Harry allowed Voldemort to live. If Harry showed Voldemort the mercy he had not, then that would finally show who was the more powerful of the two wizards. The prophecy said that Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, but perhaps Harry is more than an equal?

Dumbledore tells him that in the Department of Mysteries there is a room that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force more wonderful and terrible than death, than human intelligence, then the forces of nature. It's also the most mysterious. This power Harry possesses in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. This power took Harry to save Sirius, and saved him from possession by Voldemort because he could not bear to reside in a body full of the force he detests.
(from www.harrypotterfacts.com/5-37.htm)

This force, whatever it is, perhaps it is pure human emotion? Is mercy not a human trait that Voldemort obviously lacks, and if so, the ending would be much more powerful if Harry were to overcome what the prophecy meant him to be. Neither murderer or victim would be shown to be true.

Harry does have a kind nature, kind heart, and he would never kill anybody who didn't deserve it. Lord Voldemort has turned his life upside down; he's killed his parents, killed his godfather, and has made every year at Hogwarts hell for Harry. I'm sure given the right time, the right tools, he has the willpower and the need in his heart to kill Lord Voldemort.

Harry does have a kind nature, kind heart, and he would never kill anybody who didn't deserve it.

Well, I think most of us who have completed our teen years can tell you that many are good natured. However, anger is a very powerful charm...and one which can easily take control (especially for guys). So...

I got the impression that when Dumbeldore talks about a fate worse than death, he is not talking about any physical pain or suffering, but more the emotional anguish people like Harry or Neville are forced to go through when their loved ones are taken away from them. The loss of happiness is really what he is getting at, and this is an idea embodied in Azkaban - where you are left only with bad thoughts that claw away at you until you are overcome and waste away.

Perhaps the reason that Dubledore would not be satisfied with simply taking Voldemort's life is that this would leave no explanation. Surely the reason for celebrating the capture of Death Eaters, is that (aside from the obvious safety issue) it gives a little more insight into the nature of evil. The truth is of great importance (as Sirius would have attested to prior to his death). Dumbledore may be saying that he is unprepared to let Voldemort die without an explanation. Do not forget that Voldemort was once a student of Dumbledore's; if the reasons for Tom Riddle's metamorphosis were made clear, perhaps it would help prevent the rise to power of another Dark Wizard in the future.

Hmm, I think the points above have strayed off topic a bit. I'd just add, with regard to Harry finding it within himself to kill Voldemort, that perhaps Hagrid's words, right when we first meet him are of utmost importance: with so little 'human left in him', Harry should feel no guilt about killing Voldemort. After all, he would not be executing a man, but a monster.

I don't think Harry will let Voldemort live, but on the other hand, as some of you had said, both Harry and Voldemort wands are connected by the same phoenix core, so it would not work. This can be explained by the creation of "Priori Incantatem" as seen in book 4 when Lord Voldemort cast Avada Kedavra and Harry cast Expelliarmus, it causes the reverse spell effect to take place. Therefore, Harry has to seek other ways to stop Lord Voldemort if he do not want him to live as there is no way Harry could kill Lord Voldemort with his wand since they are both armed with wands of the same phoenix core.

Another issue here is that Harry may required external help in killing LV. LV has dark creatures and Death Eaters that he can commanded. So to penerated through this huge mass of armies, Harry may required help of DA or the Order to assist him.

I think that Voldemort will die, and that Harry will be responsible, but that he won't kill him directly. The power that Harry has that the Dark Lord does not must be something along the lines of love. I think that Harry will attempt to sacrifice himself in order to save someone he loves (ie: ron or hermy) and as a result will cause the death of Voldemort because Voldemort has demonstrated that he is incapable of such emotions and feelings.

I think it will come down to Harry and LV. The way I see it he may not try and kill LV right off but have LV down and out. The end is near kind of thing. LV won't stand for that, tries something stupid to get to Harry or Harry's friends and BAM, the trio reacts and blasts LV but it is Harry's magic that does him in. OR it's just Harry alone that has to curse LV to save his friends and LV death follows. Yea is seems like he has to kill LV from the prophecy, no choice and yea I think he is capable of killing him.

I'm not sure whether Harry will be capable of killing L.V. At the end of OotP he tries to use the A.K. cure on Bellatrix (sp???) but it fails. She says something along the lines of Harry having to really mean it. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but she was partially responsible for Sirius dying, and Harry must have hated her for it, and wanted her dead if he was willing to use it. Obviously he didn't mean it enough otherwise it would have worked. That isn't to say that he wouldn't mean it with LV, but he never knew his parents in the way that he knew Sirius...

What about Harry's scar? Dumbledore said scars can be helpful, when McGonagall suggested to remove it (DD also has one on his leg). All we know about it is that LV placed it on Harry when he tried to kill him and that it is a link between Harry and LV. But, as time goes on, Harry notices more and more things about. So whats stopping that process, maybe the scar will reveal more of its secrets in the last two books? I think that Harry's scar possesses the ability to finish off Voldemort.

I read in a chat transcipt with JKR (world book day i think???) that the shape of the scar is one of the lesser aspects of the scar, but that we will learn more about the scar in general. You're definitely on to something RadicaL!!! I'm sure that Harry's scar will play a very improtant role in the final sequences of book 7.

I know the prophecy said "neither can live while the other survives" and taking that to mean that one must KILL the other, I have every confidence that harry would kill voldemort, and that he has the power to, or will. But I can't see the conclusion of all of this to be something as simple as just killing Voldemort. i just can't see it ending that way, after all this time. There is definitely more to it, certainly more than just pointing his wand and saying Avada Kedavra and Voldemort crumbling in a flash of blinding green light. i think we need to know more about that room in the department of mysteries, more about harry's scar perhaps, more about Lily, and probably more about a lot of things. I can't help forgetting also that Wormtail is in harry's debt because he saved him in PoA. Come to think of it, i am surprised they didn't include this in the film! I don't know if that means it's not as important as I thought it was, but how could that not be important?

Another thought, and apologies if someone has already mentioned this, but could the prophecy possibly be wrong, or ... sort of wrong? Could we perhaps be interpreting the "neither must live while the other survives" bit incorrectly? This part of the prophecy always bothered me b/c it seems too black and white for Rowling's world, given what we've seen thus far. But maybe that's just me.

since he spared peter's life, i don't think he'll kill voldemort, but he is responsible for sirius', his parents, and cedric's death, so harry might kill voldemort. who knows........ :huh:

(Please be kind...i'm not an author)
I'm sure this has been beaten to death...BUT here's how i'd like to see the end of the whole series.....we pick up the conversation between Dubledore and Harry before the final showdown with Voldermort....Dumbledore begins....

Harry, our life paths have crossed for a reson. You and I both know the prophecy says you are the only one who can kill Voldermort and I believe that to be true. But I have a secret to reveal and part to play as well. Let me explain......

Harry, there is good and evil in every world, muggle and magic. You have tasted this in your past dealings with Voldermort. It is sad, but that is the balance of things. The most ancient wizards realized this and knew there would always be evil to fight. Most of the evil is easiliy handled by the forces of the Ministry of Magic. But even thousands of years ago, wizards of the time realized there would always be anomolies. Extremely powerful wizards who would go bad...in this generation it's Voldermort. I think it's safe to say he's the most powerful evil wizard ever in history. But there have been others.

In thier wisdom, they realized that each generation would have to have, and would have to choose one wizard to be the most powerful of all wizards. To do this they created and invoked the most ancient and powerful of magic that allowed them, upon thier death to transfer thier magical power and knowledge onto thier chosen "good" wizard. This can also be done before the older wizard dies...but they will die within minutes after the transfer.

This is my great secret and now it is yours. No other wizard knows that the previous "super good wizard" chose me, at about your age, to be the most powerful wizard of my generation. He was the headmaster at Hogwarts and saw in me the qualities needed, courage, wisdom, kindness and bravery. There are powerful wizards Harry but none can defeat me, as I have the power and accumulated knowledge of hundreds and even thousands of wizards over time. No other wizard has the knowledge of generations, nor do they have the knowledge of how to pass this power on. It's the greatest magical secret and only one person can know the secret. It makes the reciever the most powerful wizard of thier time. Voldermort has somehow equaled my power, I don't know how nor do I have time to find out he did it but I cannot kill him. You have to.

That is why it is my time to die Harry, I have to transfer my power and the accumulated power of all those before me to you. You will be the most powerful wizard of your time. I know it's difficult but i'm an old man and my time has been spent well. You cannot kill Voldermort with your current magical power and knowledge. I cannot kill him because there is something special within you that I do not have. But you're something special combined with the power of the great wizard of the time....might have a chance. I know you're very young and this will steal your youth. As you recieve the power you will recieve the wisdom of me and all the other ancient wizards. You will become wise beyond your years. But the transfer has to take place. After the transfer of power Harry, you will basically become all powerful. Able to do pretty much anything you want with just a thought. You must choose to abide by the rules of the world, you must continue to see the value of the rules of the magical and the muggle world. You will easily be able to destroy and manipulate...I have chosen you because you have been mistreated and understand the value of goodness, kindness and humility.

Before I transfer my power and life to you Harry, a few instructions. First, I give you all my worldly possessions. In this office I have books and items of great magical power. Some items are so dangerous that they have to be kept in the posession of the "one great good wizard" for only he can control them. Guard them well, if anyone gets hold of some of my items, the power unleashed could well destroy the world. Two, this transfer of power is the greatest secret of all magic. No one except you and I know the secret of the "one great good wizard" and I soon will die with the transfer of power. You must NEVER tell anyone. With this transfer of power you could take over the magical world and the muggle world. You must never use the full power of your magic after this transfer. Use only enough to stop the evil that you face. Third, Fawkes will be yours to command, she is bound to the power of the "one great good wizard." She is not mine, not yours she belongs the the great wizard of the time. Fourth, when you reach old age you must choose another wizard to pass the power along to. Choose well, I think I have. Finally, here is the book that contains the instructions to use the power. As you add yoru power to the "super wizard" write in it your secrets and observations for use. The book must be protected at all costs there is only one and can only be one. For in it is the spell to make the transfer possible. You will be the only one who can read the book and you cannot make copies.

I have written my final arrangements on this document. Professor McGonnogel will become the new headmaster at Hogwarts, you will be offered a teaching spot here at Hogwarts. Harry, you have a choice of course but I ask that you take it. You will be the one, you will be the protector of all that is good and you must protect and teach the new witches and wizards the ways of the good and light path. In time, you will become headmaster.

Once the transfer is complete you will know all the secrets I posess, all the spells all the magic I and my predecessors have done will be at your disposal. Use any and all to defeat Voldermort. You saw me fight Voldermort at the Ministry of Magic, you must use all tools at your disposal to defeat Voldermort. You may even have to try the forbidden curse. Do not worry about the ramifications, you must defeat him at all costs. He will be equal to your magic power...but hopefully the special something inside you will make you more powerful than him. That is our only hope.

Be happy Harry, be humble with your new power.
Lets start the transfer....

Harry goes on to fight and defeat Voldermort....but at a price....maybe his scar always hurts for the rest of his life etc...

i think becuse voldermont relise(sp) so much on magic, if harry was to fist fith he might win.

DumbleMort...
good job on the storyline.. it's an interesting idea..
if this is the case though, maybe there's another clause about the great-wizard never gettting married.. was dumbledore ever married?

The fact he didn't kill Wortail is making me look the other direction, thinking Harry will let Voldemort live, but Harry can't just think about one man dying. If Harry spares Voldemort, he's ignoring witches and wizards all over the world. Seniors,mothers,fathers, children...That'd sort of lead trouble to the Muggles too.

I think it's obvious that Harry will somehow kill Voldemart... but I'm not sure if it would be a delibrate curse or an accident.. like the reverse-spell effect.

Maybe Dumbledore will Imperviate Harry and kill Voldemart through Harry.

Neither can live while the other survive isn't it obvious someone or both of them will die

yup.. very obvious.. I think the possibility that both might die is very real..

I feel horrible even thinking this, but i think LV will kill DD in front of Harry (maybe) and that will give Harry the will to finally kill LV. I think that if a person as close to Harry as Dumbledore is, were to die, Harry just won't be able to control his anger at that person.

I feel horrible even thinking this, but i think LV will kill DD in front of Harry (maybe) and that will give Harry the will to finally kill LV. I think that if a person as close to Harry as Dumbledore is, were to die, Harry just won't be able to control his anger at that person.
Oh no! Thats a horrible thought...however...I think its a good idea. Harry may just need that burst of anger to go through with killing LV. I think by the 7th book harry will be well enough equipped to kill LV, but I expect that we'll see long, drawn out, dramatic scene where LV and Harry are goign back and forth. Im just going to have to keep resisting the urge to page forward and see the final results!

Harry is the only one who can kill voldemort and thus, he will end up having to in the end. But my theory is that even in the end, if harry is killed, voldemort will die too, because in book 4 he took harrys blood, and is now living off it like a parasite. So when a parasites host dies, the parasite does too. that also explains the look of triumph in dumbledors eyes. Forgive me if someones already posted thgis ive just been too lazy to read through everything.

Of course Harry is capable of killing Voldermort, but you would think Harry would use hate to kill Voldermort, but that wouldn't work for Harry as Voldermort would be stronger. So Harry would use love to kill him, but I don't know if Harry would want to use love as a negative thing.

Harry won't go back in time to stop LV. We know this because he didn't. This isn't Back to the Future, you can't change anything, because, whatever you would have changed would have been what actually happened.

I'm sure that in Book 7 Harry will be powerful enough to kill Voldemort

i think harry will show mercy to voldemort and he wont be able handle the niceness and it will destroy him or show him love and that will destroy him

When Harry spared Pettigrew's life, I immediately thought, "Oh god, hopefully he doesn't do that when it comes down to killing Voldemort!" However, Harry is constantly relating everything that goes bad back to Voldemort. I think that Harry would be able to use Avada Kedavra on him, but I do not think that is how he will die. How he will defeat him, I do not know, but I'm sure he will be able to do it.

If he isn't capable of killing him the wizard way, he will ahve to do it muggle way, liek the sword of Godric Gryffindor, meaning he doesn't need any extra powers except the ability to thrust a sword, comign to my conclusion that Dumbledore WILL NOT have to die to give Harry powers

I doubt very much whether Harry will defeat Lord Voldemort using "Avada Kedavra". What OotP showed is that wizards such as Dumbledore and his almost equal Lord Voldemort is that killing them is no small task. What we also saw is that Harry possibly doesn't have the capacity to perform Unforgivable Curses, given that his hatred towards Bellatrix seemed every bit as great as any hatred he's felt towards Lord Voldemort. My conclusion is that I don't think anything could really happen which would given Harry the capacity to be able to perform the killing curse to rid the world of Lord Voldemort.

Harry won't go back in time to stop LV. We know this because he didn't. This isn't Back to the Future, you can't change anything, because, whatever you would have changed would have been what actually happened.

Harry won't go back in time. But that one line about Voldemort being "Slytherin's last remaining ancester" makes me wonder if this whole series will end up being Samurai Jack done Backwards.

Other threads have mentioned this theory, and have researched it to hell, so I won't go through every clue and gory detail. I'll give the theory to you in a nutshell though.

Picture this: Harry wants to get rid of Voldy. Voldy, after taking Harry's blood, is able to get his body back. Voldy is somehow made hopelessly mortal. He's human again. Not only that, but it is somehow revealed that by using Harry's blood, he has strengthened rather than weakened the blood protection keeping Harry alive, and therefore, has made both invincible in the presence of the other. Whoops. (Notice how he hasn't been hit by a killing curse or anything that would cause permanent damage since the night in the graveyard.)

So, with Voldemort mortal, and not really up to the idea of murdering anyone, even Lord MoldyButt, Harry needs a new idea. Harry sends Voldy back in time. Knowing that time can't be changed, he figures that if he does it, he was destined to do it anyway.

Voldemort is now stuck in the past. (There's absolutely no evidence in the series so far that suggests somebody can go to the future.) With nothing else to do really, Voldy miraculously manages to find a woman and have some kids. (Who the heck would date a guy who looks like a snake?) Somehow, Voldy contributing to the gene pool results in Salizar Slytherin.

Meanwhile, in our present time, Voldy is dead. With no way to reclaim immortality or return to the future, he died a thousand years ago. But on the other hand, Harry discovers he inadvertantly caused a lot of wars and other trouble in the past, including the one they just fought now. Whoops again. But either way, he was destined to do it, so no biggie.

That's what believers in the time travel theory are expecting, in a nutshell.

Not only does Harry spare Wormtails life, but when he thought Sirius killed his parents and he had his wand pointed at his heart he hesitated and never went through with it either. So that does raise questions. Even when Sirius dies and he's the most angry he's ever possibly been he doesn't try to kill her, he just uses the Crucio curse. By the time the choice comes, I'm sure he'll have lost a whole lot more by then, and possibly be ready. Maybe Voldemort will capture his friends and start torturing them and he'll know the only way to save them is to kill him. I have a feeling somehow Neville will be involved in the end as well. I think somehow Harry is going to do something to Voldemorts soul.

There's also the way Harry reacted to the prophecy. Even though Voldemort has destroyed so much in his life, even though he knows how evil he is, Harry is still completely appalled at the thought that he will have to kill him. Not because he's Voldemort, but just the thought of "having" to kill anyone. That's going to be interesting in the next book - how does Harry deal with knowing that. It's like having murder pre-meditated for you!

I think Harry is going to doubt whether he has the power to vanquish Voldermort, and is going to find it hard to find out how to vanquish him, but the prophecy does tell us that he is able. Otherwise there would be no such prophecy.

Well,how do we know Wormtail's still alive?We haven't heard from him in a year.
Everyone's capable of killing,as scary as it sounds.You just have to really,really want to.A motive,if you will.Perhaps Dumbledore will die at the wand of Voldemort,or one of Harry's friends like Ginny or Dean will be taken hostage.
But will Voldemort live?Vanquish doesn't neccessarily mean kill,so maybe Harry will vanquish the evil in him,or maybe he will kill him.We won't know until book 7 though....

I actually dont think Harry will let Voldemort live. He has taken so much from Harry his parents, his god father, and not to mention who he will kill in the last two books. I think Harry through love for the people voldemort killed will make him be able to kill voldemort. I know in the past he could forgive people, or at least make them face up to what they did and in pettigrews case they were trying to take him to the MoM. I dont think he can forgive voldemort if harry cant kill him by wand he will do it with his heart and his love for everyone that has been taken from him. harry i think will be very capeable once he continues to study magic and become more powerful

I doubt Harry will let Voldemort live. If he let him live, then he'd be letting himself die. Harry only let Wormtail live because it would've been what James wanted, and if he lets Voldemort live, then Voldemort will continue to kill a lot of people and destroy the Earth.

Harry doesn't have to kill Voldemort out of anger. He could do it out of self-defense. I don't think he'd need to use avada kedavra. . . Just be a little more clever.

just wondering but i believe Jk says that if harry lives she doesent really see harry being a teacher. That story was actually very well written

i also think that harry will not use AK to kill voldemort he will definatly use something else

I really think Harry will kill him when he has to. He didn't show any sort of remorse when he killed Riddle's memory. And he didn't show any remorse after killing the basilisk either.

I think that Harry is capable of killing Voldemort. If he was willing to use the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix, who killed his godfather, then he would be willing to kill the man who killed his parents. Plus, according to the prophecy, one must die.

maybe harry will give voldemort a hug and in that act of love and kindness it destroys voldemort because he is unable to to feel those emotions

It's difficult to see Harry purposefully killing Voldemort in cold blood - at least for me. Of course he has an enormous amount to hate Voldemort for, but the act of plotting a murder must absolutely change the person who does it. If Harry's acting in immediate defense of friends, or maybe himself then that's possible, but I think it's going to be Voledmort's actions that will lead to his own destruction - just as they have before.

Which brings me back to what would happen if Harry destroyed Voldemort, leaving Tom. Harry could essentially put an end only to Voldemort, and still fulfill the prophecy, as the prophecy refers to "the Dark Lord". Voldemort would be vanquished by Harry's mercy, and we would be left with Tom, who is arguably a completely separate person from Voldemort, and not necessarily Harry's responsibilty.

I'm sorry I know this is off topic but what if harry just removed the parts that are voldemort, that would essentially kill him, such as memories and charms put on him. It would mean that voldemort is just as much dead or even more so than Lockhart because he not only lost his original memories but his original body as well. If this was the case then I can imagine him using his mothers wand to do that charm and not have to live with the thought of having killed someone.

I do believe that in the end, Harry will be able to do what must be done. I have no doubt that he will indeed vanquish Lord Voldemort. But there are many things I feel we must consider concerning the circumstances of Harry's defeat of Voldemort.

First, the word "vanquish" may not necessarily mean "to kill outright", but might be taken to mean more along the lines of "to defeat or conquer in battle, conflict, or competition; subjugate; overcome or subdue" (from dictionary.com). Given these connotations of vanquish, it may not be that Harry kills Voldemort outright. Voldemort will surely die, but I don't believe he will be killed by something like the the Avada Kedavra curse, as many people have mentioned. Furthermore, when the prophecy says that "one must die at the hands of the other", perhaps it means in a more figurative sense. I took this phrase to mean that one must merely cause the death of the other, not necessarily actively kill the other. It may even be that the use of the word vanquish instead of kill is alluding to a fate that is worse than death. In either case, I believe JK chose this word very carefully to create a sense of ambiguity as to the exact fate that Voldemort will suffer and how Harry will bring about Voldemort's destruction. If she had used the word kill in the prophecy, the circumstances surrounding the last battle between Harry and Voldemort would be significantly less mysterious.

Next, I want to consider something that was brought up earlier in this thread:I don't think Harry will take that active a part in the killing. Instead, I think it will be something about a choice Harry makes (it all comes back to choices), that will settle it.I quite agree that choice will be the key element to Harry's defeat of Voldemort in the end. So much hinges on choice throughout the entire series, both good and bad: Harry chose to spare Wormtail, thus creating the life debt that now exists between them; Harry chose not to put his mind to learning Occlumency, and the results were devastating consequences. JK said once that the next few books would place Harry in situations where he would be required to choose between what is easy and what is right. Therefore, I believe that at the end, Harry will make a choice- one that is both difficult and right- which will somehow lead to Voldemort's demise.

There's something else I've been wondering as well: are the prophecies a physical manefestation of Fate, channeled thorugh a person with the gift of Sight (in other words, do the always come true)? Or are they conjectures of what might come to pass if certain circumstances converge in a favorable manner? Whatever the true nature of prophecies might be, it appears that they are somehow tied to Fate and Destiny, two ideas that seem to directly contradict the concept of choice. I find it interesting that both fate and choice could play a part in determining how the prophecy is fulfilled. I have no doubt that if it comes down to a choice, Harry will choose correctly and survive while Voldemort dies, whether or not fate guides him in this choice.

The last thing I wanted to mention is that whatever the circumstances of the last battle between Harry and Voldemort are, they will be considered by the general wizarding population in terms of the war against Voldemort and his Death Eaters, rather than in terms of the prophecy concerning them. The reason for this is that I don't think the magical population at large knows about the contents of the prophecy. How ever Harry destroys Voldemort, the wizarding world will consider Harry's defeatof Voldemort as an act of survival. And I believe, in a sense, this will be the truth. I cannot imagine Harry killing Voldemort out of hatred, anger or revenge. I see these reasons as being part of the path which leads to what is easy rather than what is right.

you know it could end with both of them dyin but i dout it i think on of them will live but definetly not both of them im not saying its impossible but i didnt right the prophecy

I know the prophecy said "neither can live while the other survives" and taking that to mean that one must KILL the other...
Actually, it explicitly says "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives". At least one of them will kill the other, if they don't both kill each other.

Harry has to kill him, or be killed. I think his choice is clear.

I searched the forums and couldn't find this thread so if I missed it mods, please move...

I originally posted this in one of the threads but the thread is moving very slowly and therefore posts are getting very little response so I decided to start a new thread.

Harry's inability to inflict pain on Bellatrix even when he was out for revenge for Sirius' death brings about a lot of questions such as this one: In OOTP, when Voldemort tried to kill Harry but DD stepped in...Would Harry have tried to kill Voldemort given that chance again if he wasn't grieving over Sirius? Would he merely have tried to get away? Does Harry have it in him to seriously harm or kill on purpose?

For example
It wasn't Harry's intention to burn Quirrell. Harry got rid of Tom Riddle by destroying the diary. Harry stopped Lupin and Sirius from killing Peter.

Thots?

Well, I don't think that Harry will have to kill him using the Avada Kedavra Curse...Didn't it mention in the chapter that Dumbledore said:

'There are other ways of killing a man Tom!'

So, I'm assuming that there will be an alternate way in which Harry can overcome Voldemort without using the killing curse. Besides, I think that you would have to have some serious, deep, issues of resentment and twisted feelings to be able to pull off the Unforgivable Curses.

These threads might help...
Will Harry let Voldemort live? Is he capable of killing him? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23867&highlight=kill%2A)
Harry could not have killed Sirius in Book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20269&highlight=kill%2A)

Definitely discussed before.. sorry that the search is not awesome enough.. I personally think that Voldemart cannot be 'killed'

These threads might help...
Will Harry let Voldemort live? Is he capable of killing him? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23867&highlight=kill%2A)
Harry could not have killed Sirius in Book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20269&highlight=kill%2A)

Thanks Doug :)

Please check those threads for more quality discussion on this topic :)

I'm not exactly sure if the verb in the topic is correct. Sure, Harry CAN kill, but the real question is, when faced with the choice, will he?

In the end, at the final moment, it's still Harry's decision whether or not to kill. While he has killed a basilisk, that's not the same as killing another human being. I know he isn't prepared to kill now. JKR has a rather interesting quandry: how to prepare Harry to be able to make that decision without becoming that which he's fighting.

Im almost positive that Harry is capable of killing. If I dont recall right he was planning on killing Sirius, but Lupin stopped him. And that was because he thought sirius had betrayed his parents to LV. Imagine what he would do to LV if he got the chance.

I'm not Harry can kill if he really means the spell, like how Bellatrix said. I just hope he is mentally upto it, and doesn't fall for some trap that Voldemort might have set up for him like "don't kill me, your parents wouldn't like it etc". But since Harry is going to be around 17 when he gets the final opportunity to kill Voldemort, I expect him to be much more mature than he is now.

OK, I'm gonna merge this thread with Will Harry let Voldemort live? Is he capable of killing him? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23867&page=4&pp=30&highlight=kill%2A) and I will remove the word "him" in the thread title so to express whether or not Harry can kill in general.

In my honest opinion, I think Harry is capable to kill, but mentally, he is not. For most rage he has against Voldemort, I don't think he will kill him. I believe Voldemort will commit a mistake or Harry will mislead him into something that will make him lost his magical powers or die "indirectly" for his own actions.
I don't think, JKRowling will end writing a book for children where the main role, a kid, will be going around killing. Of course, that's my opinion. :p

I don't think HP could kill LV in the way shooting him, but maybe he can by like pushing him beyond the veil (Changeling Hypothesis -linked-) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=26617&highlight=All+about+Lily) or something of that sort which would kill LV. I agree with some above me that HP has a good heart and even though he has hatred feelings as well he won't kill someone. Look at Wormtail for example in PoA. Harry said he didn't think his parents would've wanted him to kill someone or see someone other killing on his command. It are also the choices as HP did not join LV in PS/SS when he could which makes him a good and noble person who wouldn't kill anyone like that...

It depends on what Harry finds out about Voldemort. Right now, he doesn't know a lot about him, and what he's been through to make him what he is today. Harry know's he's killed his parents, Cedric Diggory, and Sirius, and he may be driven by the anger of losing those people when the time comes when Harry has the option of killing him.

It depends on what Harry finds out about Voldemort. Right now, he doesn't know a lot about him, and what he's been through to make him what he is today. Harry know's he's killed his parents, Cedric Diggory, and Sirius, and he may be driven by the anger of losing those people when the time comes when Harry has the option of killing him.

I also thought that perhaps if LV killed someone very close to Harry such as DD or a member of the trio that it would put him over the edge enough to go after LV with a serious intent to kill. But Bellatrix killed someone very close to Harry and he couldn't muster the hate inside to even do her serious harm with an unforgivable curse.

So I have to agree that there has to be another way especially in light of the fact that 1) Harry and LV can't use their wands against each other and 2) Harry may not have the hate inside to do it.

As I see it, Tom Riddle is Voldemort. Tom Riddle is the heir of Syltherin. Voldemort is the name Tom came up with so that he would not be classed as a half-blood and be treated as such by the pure-bloods. Look at the reaction given by Bellatrix when Harry refered to Voldemort as such. TR is the Dark Lord stated in the profecy. So, in saying that Harry could kill the personna of the man(Voldemort) and that would forfill his destiny is impossible. That is more or less saying- kill the nickname and the person dies.

No, I believe Harry will kill Tom. He only has the choice of kill or be killed. With this it is not murder, it is survival. And Harry is good at surviving.

Actually, Voldemort is the Dark Lord. If Voldemort was made a Muggle, plain old Tom Riddle Jr. stripped of his magic, I doubt that his Death Eaters would continue to follow him. In fact, I tend to believe they would turn on him like hyenas. Harry would have by his actions (punishing him yet having the love to have mercy) caused his death.

Just a suggestion.

what? Hmm :huh: I don't think so... His parents are die and Harry... revench...perhabs?? I think Harry will kill Voldemort.

There was a time when I believed that Harry is TOO soft-hearted for someone with a life like his but I realized something. Who does Harry hate the most? Voldemort,and he knows that he has to face him someday and defeat so I think Harry will toughen up and improve his magic and in the final duel Harry's anger will build up and he will kill Voldemort in one way or another (maybe even his anger).

Bellatrix said only someone evil can do the Avada Kedavra spell but I think that Harry will no longer take it (especially after Siriu's death) become evil towards Voldemort and his death eaters and finish them all once and for all with the Avada Kedavra spell since there is no way of escaping it and he can kill alot of people in one shot of a spell.

Well...as Harry is the only one who can destroy Voldemort I believe that he will. Though I can't say that he himself will survive it.

Actually, Voldemort is the Dark Lord. If Voldemort was made a Muggle, plain old Tom Riddle Jr. stripped of his magic, I doubt that his Death Eaters would continue to follow him. In fact, I tend to believe they would turn on him like hyenas. Harry would have by his actions (punishing him yet having the love to have mercy) caused his death.

I tend to agree with you. In essence Harry kills the persona without actually killing the person. This is very believable given Harry's personality in all the stories. He saves people that's his thing and I too think his compassion will win out in the end instead dealing a fatal blow.

Well...as Harry is the only one who can destroy Voldemort I believe that he will. Though I can't say that he himself will survive it.

I too believe that Harry is the only one who can destroy Voldemort, through some seriously clever writing by JKR. But I don't think he will die. I just don't think that is the way it will be done.

i'm new to the forums here and find that there's too much to explore right now for me to sit and read through threads this long, but i think the following in response to the original question:


Yes, Harry is capable of killing. Everyone is capable of killing. Albus Dumbledore is capable of killing. Everyone has a certain threshold they can be pushed to until they snap. It is the choice they make when they do snap that makes them who they are. Dumbledore is more capable of killing people than probably anyone else in the wizarding world, BUT as pointed out by McGonnagall (sp?) in PS, he is too noble to use "those powers" referring to the powers that Voldemort has and chooses to use with indifference. Dumbledore has the same powers and much more, but he is too noble because he CHOOSES to be. So, Harry is indeed capable of killing, but whether or not he chooses to is the more important question.


Book 7: Harry Potter and the Choice.

I think that Harry can kill voldemort, he was about to kill sirius when he thought he was the one who betrayed his parents.

He was also ready to kill Bellatrix after she killed Sirius.

Book 7: Harry Potter and the Choice.
La-a-a-a-a-a-a-ame.

The only reason that he didn't want to kill Peter was because he was protecting sirius and Lupin. There are many cases of him wanting to kill and the only time he didn't was to protect his friends, therefor he would be very capable of killing voldemort when the time comes.

There are many cases of him wanting to kill and the only time [i] he didn't was to protect his friends,
Name three.

What? Why do I have to name three? We have only named two and what's the point of naming onther one. any way he wanted to kill Mr. Weasely when he was a snake in the dream and he wanted to kill Voldemort a number of times. (Please tell me I don't have to name three times he wanted to kill voldemort!)

No. I meant name three times where he wanted to kill someone but didn't because he wanted to protect his friends.

But he didn't want to kill someone but didn't because he wanted to save his friends, there was only the one time I know of ar least.

There are many cases of him wanting to kill and the only time he didn't was to protect his friends . . .
I see.



But he didn't want to kill someone but didn't because he wanted to save his friends, there was only the one time I know of at least.
Hmmm. . . Contradictory, it would seem.

How are they contridictery? the first time I said he wanted to kill people a lot of times and out of that there was only one time he wanted to not kill someone because he wanted to save his friends, and the second time I said that that was the only time I knew of that he didn't want to kill someone to save his friends. There almost exactly the same, just worded a little different!

The only reason that he didn't want to kill Peter was because he was protecting sirius and Lupin. There are many cases of him wanting to kill and the only time he didn't was to protect his friends, therefor he would be very capable of killing voldemort when the time comes.

Harry didn't want Lupin and Sirius to kill Peter because he said he didn't think his father/parents would want them to become murderers. I think it stands to reason if you use that logic that Harry's own parents would not want their son to become a murderer either.

Regardless, I DO think Harry has the ability to kill, or at least, come book 7, I think he will. I think that the 'ability' is in everyone. It all ties in with the 'choices' we always hear so much about. Anyone can kill another, but most of us don't run around doing so. But, given the prophecy, I do think Harry will be responsible for LV's demise. I don't think Harry will do so using the AK though. I think there will be a LOT more to LV's death than Harry throwing a curse at him, it will be more meaningful.

Crumseeker - you mentioned that Harry was willing to kill for his friends, yet didn't give any examples. So, I'm asking if you would share a time when Harry was going to/or was willing to kill someone for his friends. (ie -- an example using who he was willing to kill and in what circumstances.)

La-a-a-a-a-a-a-ame.

yeah, i know it's lame...... my brain's frazzled from working 12 hour days this week.

What? Why do I have to name three? We have only named two and what's the point of naming onther one. any way he wanted to kill Mr. Weasely when he was a snake in the dream and he wanted to kill Voldemort a number of times. (Please tell me I don't have to name three times he wanted to kill voldemort!)

when harry was the snake in the dream, he wasn't harry... i believe he was being controlled by voldemort, so that one's out. also, it was in a freakin dream, again, doesn't count.

when harry was the snake in the dream, he wasn't harry... i believe he was being controlled by voldemort, so that one's out. also, it was in a freakin dream, again, doesn't count.

Ah, I meant to address that in my previous post, but totally forget. Fawkes is totally correct here. Harry was deep inside LV's mind at that time -- part of the reason DD wanted Harry to learn occlumency. Snape told Harry that during the attack on Arthur, LV realized the intrusion on his mind from Harry, and thus realized that he could do the same to Harry, providing all the more incentive to learn the occlumency. I believe it was stated (by DD) that at the time of the attack LV was possessing the snake, all the while Harry was 'dreaming' he was the snake because he was 'in LV's mind'. There were other examples of this in the book as well -- when Harry was hearing 'maniac laughing' and then learned it was coming out of his mouth while LV was torturing someone. (I forget who right now). Those emotions had nothing to do with Harry wanting to kill and everything to do with how LV was feeling at the time. The same holds true for the times that Harry wanted to attack DD. Those weren't HIS feelings, that was LV's feelings while he was intruding into Harry's mind.

Ah, I meant to address that in my previous post, but totally forget. Fawkes is totally correct here. Harry was deep inside LV's mind at that time -- part of the reason DD wanted Harry to learn occlumency. Snape told Harry that during the attack on Arthur, LV realized the intrusion on his mind from Harry, and thus realized that he could do the same to Harry, providing all the more incentive to learn the occlumency. I believe it was stated (by DD) that at the time of the attack LV was possessing the snake, all the while Harry was 'dreaming' he was the snake because he was 'in LV's mind'. There were other examples of this in the book as well -- when Harry was hearing 'maniac laughing' and then learned it was coming out of his mouth while LV was torturing someone. (I forget who right now). Those emotions had nothing to do with Harry wanting to kill and everything to do with how LV was feeling at the time. The same holds true for the times that Harry wanted to attack DD. Those weren't HIS feelings, that was LV's feelings while he was intruding into Harry's mind.

I knew I was onto something with my last post, but I forgot how much stuff there was to go along with it.... Looks like I'll have to reread the books. :sad: :gryff:

I see not one redeeming reason as to why Harry would not kill Voldemort. That would not be sympathy. Sympathy is usually reserved for people who deserve it.

I think Harry is capable of killing Lord Voldermort. Firstly he has killed Harry's parents and also Harry is sure to blame him for Sirius' death as well.
Also I think there will be a death of someone close to harry in the last book to spur Harry on to hate Lord Voldermort with such a vengence that he will try to kill him and mean it as well.
We know from the other curses that you have to mean it when its said for it to work.
I know the death of his parents is MAJOR but it was in his past it needs someone to die in the moment or recently to spur Harry on to feel such Hatred.

Bur personally I hope there will be something about Love that kills Voldermort - maybe Harry possesses Lord Voldermort and Lord Voldermort cannot tolerate love within him - well anything is possible with JKR!! :rotfl:

I really don't think Harry will "Kill" Voldemort in the same sense as Voldemort has killed so many other wizards.

Harry is now trying to come to terms with the thought of being a murderer, if he kills Voldemort.

I think there is much more to it. Voldemort has shown he can conqure "death" and have his essence still exist. Snape made the comment in SS about a potion that can "put a stopper in Death". this tells me we aren't dealing with death in the sence that our muggle minds can fathom.

Harry will defeat Voldemort, but as to the how... I do think Love will be ever more powerful than hate, but I don't think Harry will realize what it is doing.

Love (in my opinion) will be what destroys Voldemort, I don't think Harry will have to "pull the trigger".

We have seen what Harry is capable of. He will probably try to prepare himself for what he sees is the eventuality of it.

But the idea of Harry doing so, in my mind, brands him to be the same calibur as Voldemort himself. And usually no writer will every sacrifice the Hero's goodguy character to make him seem as bad as the Villian themselves.


just my thoughts thought. take it or leave it.

Harry knows what he must do, defeat the darkest wizard of all time-Voldemort.

memory elimination by harry on voldemort.....OBLIVIATE!!!!

It is going to be hard decision, but i think whatever happens harry will do for the good of the wizarding world and all that are important to him.,

hedwigthewitch i agree with you!!!

harry will kill voldemort ,he has to or he will die,then the wizarding world is stuffed if harry dies.by the time harry has to kill voldemort he will be ready,he is very powerful,he just doesnt know it yet.

If Harry killed Voldemort with AK he would be using hate as a way to destroy someone. He would be in a way using hate to destroy pure hate. I dont think AK can kill Voldemort honestly if you think about it. I wonder is there a killing curse using love( like a good version of it) I think harrys and his mothrs love is the key to voldemort defeat.

thats what harry has to figure out, do you think dumbledore has anything to do with it? is is possible that the thing harry discovered or realised in the chamber was fawkes ,wasnt it fawkes that harry could hear in his head when he was fighting voldemort in gof.i've been thinking maybe dumbledore can read harry's thoughts or be in his head some how,cause he always seems to know what harry's doing,like when he was going to run away from sirius' house in ootf.that instant he got a message from dumbledore to stay put.how did he know harry was going anywhere???

I think...that Love..as it was stated earlier will play a key roll in Voldemort's demise...It was love that saved Harry..it was how Voldemort was almost destroyed the first time around..so I think that Harry will have to have a very strong feeling of love for someone..or it could be the ultimate sacrifice of someone else who loves Harry as much or more than his own mother had..that could again put a mark on Harry to protect him and allow Voldemort to have his evil backfire on himself again..and finally kill him for good.. The question is..will it be Harry's love for someone else..like will it be Ron..or a girlfriend or Sirius(?). I am leaning towards it being more like love for Harry...maybe it is Dumbledore who is able to put a charm on Harry...in some final battle...or maybe Hermione..or Ginny? I don't know!????

But to ultimately answer the question..yes Harry is capable of killing...I know he has it in him...not because he is evil...but because he has anger inside himself..that he has a hard time controlling..and he has been tormented for so long..I know he is not comfortable with the thought...but I think that most of us would feel the same way..most of us would have a hard time with the thought of killing someone...but if someone was threatening your life..or the lives of your loved ones..I think we could all, in the moment, kill if that was the only way...So because Harry has time to think about it..it will seem harder to come to terms with..but I think it will be the passion of the final battle that will bring out the ability to do what is needed in the end. Harry must do it..that is if he wishes to live.

Of course this is way out there..What if everyone Harry cares about dies...and Harry can hear them all just beyond the veil...and he chooses to die instead..And the moral to the story..is that it is better to die than to commit such a terrible crime as murder. Well I hope not.

I see not one redeeming reason as to why Harry would not kill Voldemort. That would not be sympathy. Sympathy is usually reserved for people who deserve it.

See, I used to think that as well, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that it is simply not "heroic" for Harry to kill Voldemort in cold blod, regardless of the circumstances.

The way I see it, everyone is thinking in a FAR to linear fashion, and the ultimate solution for Harry v. Voldemort will come in a fashion surprising to us all, undoubtedly coming to Harry because of his vast association of friends. The one advantage Harry will forever have over Voldemort is that he has friends who want him to succeed and will help him find his way.

I've been reading some of these, and I'm surprised that so many think it would come down to the avada kedavra curse. Why have so many people forgotten that there's a three-foot broadsword that belonged to Potter's house founder sitting in Dumbledore's office that he has used before? My theory: Harry will use the sword of Godric Gryffindore to kill Lord Voldemort either before he can kill, or after he kills, Hermione. I don't like the idea of Hermione dying, but that's my gut instinct.

Thoughts?
JMC

i believe he is but it wont be something that is planned in advance. it'll be a spur of the moment crime of passion type of killing. something will make him snap. thats my theory.

I think Harry will kill if it comes down to it. He is very passionate and caring about those close to him. If someone endangered the life of his friend, he might just end the offenders life. He would have killed Sirius in PoA if he hadn't been stopped. Who is to say he wouldn't try again if he had to?

Its highly doubtful that Harry will let Voldemort live. Voldemort stands for everything Harry hates and not to mention that if Harry let Voldemort live Voldy would surely kill him the second Harry turned his back. Harry has to kill Voldemort whether Harry wants to or not, and I believe that when the time comes Harry will do whatever it takes to bring voldy down. I also have another theory partialy conserning this. I keep thinking that the moment Harry turns 17 he'll go after Voldemort or a Death Eater. Whats to stop him once he's of age? And if he learns to apperate (something I still don't fully understand) then there will be even less stoping him from going on a rampage.

I think Harry will probably destroy Voldemort. If he wasn't capable of killing, then I think he'd be feeling really guilty and hating himself for what happened to Quirrel

i believe he is but it wont be something that is planned in advance. it'll be a spur of the moment crime of passion type of killing. something will make him snap. thats my theory.

Hey,

Now see to me that's an interesting concept. Regardless of one's true intentions and feelings, there comes a point...with every person...when they will snap. When rage and hate will simply overcome due to the circumstances. Half makes me wonder if there won't be some scene in the upcoming books that looks like it was copied from Star Wars. :scared:

As long as we don't end up with a "Harry, I am your father!" line...

Again though, I guess it gets down to a simple question: What does it take to make someone kill another? What turns a regular "joe" into someone capable of taking another life (due to a just cause or not)?

There are loats of posibileties. One of them: everybody dies(joke)

I do not see Harry being capable of killing; no one has yet died by the hands of Harry Potter. It is true that Harry has wanted to sacrifice his own life but that was because he felt deep down inside that he was to blame for Sirius Black's death and nothing more than that. In a way I hope Harry never has to kill anyone but if it comes down to survival and someone who will not stop to even think about killing him (Voldemort) then he may have no choice in the matter but to use any means to protect himself and his friends. I think that is the crunch really, if it is his own death that is at steak then he may try an alternative method but if it is to protect the wizard world and his friends from death then he would probably involve himself in a battle to the death.

I think that Harry is capable of killing Voldemort. He has no choice. I think that Voldemort has been so far gone when it comes to evilness that redeeming him is not an option anymore.

There's also the reason that he will go after Harry. Voldemort will not rest until he kills Harry. He tried to kill Harry when he was 1 yr old and given the chance will do it again in a heartbeat as was proven in the books. I don't think that letting Voldemort live will be an option anymore.

Hmm, I've always thought of Harry as another Alex Rider case, able to hex or curse someone for some reasons, but when it comes to it he can't kill someone, if he carries on like this then I dunno how he's going to get rid of LV, if at all...

Harry knows he will have to kill Voldemort someday or be killed but I can't help but wonder if it won't take Voldemort or his Death Eaters killing someone very close to Harry to spur him into action, enabling him to finally put an end to Voldemort for good.

From a closed thread - since it seems to fit well with the title of this one that was found by Ms Kennedy

Harry IS Capable of Killing
________________________________________
Layla:-

While the incident in PoA with Harry's inability to kill Sirius is often sited as "proof" that Harry is incapable of killing anyone or anything, I am surprised that we forgot two very important incidents:

1- Harry, in his first year in Hogwarts actually killed Quirrell.

2- In the second year, Harry had absolutely no problem killing the basilisk nor did he hesitate to destroy Tom Riddle via the diary.

I would also add to these that Harry would probably have allowed Remus and Sirius to kill Wormtail had the latter not said that 'your dad would have given me another chance' (or something along these lines). In other words, Harry's natural instinct was probably to kill or allow Wormtail to be killed. It is only his desire to be like his father that made him change his mind. I may be wrong, but this has always been my impression when I read that chapter and it has not changed after re-reading or after watching the movie.

Several threads here try to find a 'way out' for Harry; a way for him to destroy LV without actually killing him because we don't want Harry to be a killer (even a noble one). But I think we forget that one of the main themes of the books that life is not all black or white. Harry, in killing LV, performs a 'good' deed and not an evil one, again echoing JKR's focus on choices (he chooses to use his power and/or ability to destroy in order to save the world) and how gray life really is (after all, you have an essentially good character, perform an essentially 'bad' deed, in order to achieve greater good).


Barbara Kennedy:-

Actually, this passage from the book indicates that Voldemort abandoning Quirrell was what caused him to do die, not Harry's touch.
Quote:
...He left Quirrell to die; he shows just as little mercy to his followers as his enemies. ....
pg 370 Sorcerer's Stone, paperback ed.


As for the Basilisk, well, if anyone were faced with the prospect of dying or killing the beast, who wouldn't try to kill it? Self defense there.

Tom Riddle of the diary was nothing but a memory, a phantom, so can that truly be considered 'killing"?


You might find these threads interesting.

Isn’t Harry a murderer already?(Quirrell’s death)
Harry could not have killed Sirius in book 3
Killing Sirius vs. Killing Voldemort: Harry’s Reaction to the Prophecy
How will Harry kill Voldemort?
Is Harry capable of killing? Will Harry let Voldemort live?
Would Harry kill Ron?
Should Harry and Neville really KILL someone?
Foreshadowing? Harry “kills” Tom Riddle in the Chamber


Layla:-

I don't know if Harry was aware that Quirrell doed because LV left his body. When Harry realized that his touch was causing Quirrell to disintegrate and he attacked the professor, he was clearly attempting to eliminate him.

As for TR, he was no longer a memory by the time Harry killed him. He was solid enough to enable him to take Harry's wand and perform that small bit of magic with his name in the air.

Adiah:-
I find it interesting that Harry thinks killing Voldemort would be murder. Personally, I wouldn't see it that way, though that's just my opinion...


Zveron:-

Since Harry can only see the thestral in ootp, he did not murder Tom Riddle in book 2. The fact that the fang throught the diary can destroy Tom Riddle meant that it is still a memory


Blizzard:-

Well, The incedent with Quirrel was killing him i guess, but Quirrel was Evil and he had to kill him to get rid of voldemort. Tom Riddle was just a memory and harry put the tooth in the diary it got rid of the bad memory of riddle. I don't think if harry killed Voldemort it would be murder because isn't murder when the person is inoccent? Voldemort is anything from innocent. And any wizard who had the chance & ability would kill him- It's just something that needs to be done. Not Murd




Uterope:-

Harry never even knew Quirrel had died until after he woke up. I doub't if that can be considered killing because he did not intesntionally kill Quirrel.

As for the basilisk.... gee a giant snake like creature is trying to kill me what should I do???? If I see a cocroach I stomp on it does that make me a murderer, I hope not.

Killing a memory is not the same as killing a person.

But I have to agree that when the time comes Harry will be able to kill Voldemort. (although I still think that job is meant for Neville)


Lplus:-
Tom Riddle was a 'person' by the time he and Harry fought - and he was Lord Voldemort, as he himself pointed out. Harry was quite prepared to kill him and should be able to do so again in a kill or be killed situation.
That said, the question might be better phrased - 'Would Harry be able to execute LV - if the circumstances arose?’


Emma:-

Please use one of the posts links.

Closed

I think...

-That if Harry's life is in immediate danger he will kill.

-But if Voldemort is at the mercy of Harry...Harry will not kill him...but if Voldemort had killed someone recently that was close to Harry...then Harry would kill.

-Because in POA after Harry learnt of what Pettigrew did he did stop Sirius from killing him...because no one was in danger of Petigrew.

-In PS Harry was going to be killed by Quirell...so it was "kill or be killed"

-CoS...with the Basilisk...it was 'kill or be killed" again.
-So...(I used the word "kill" too many times.)

Another point about not killing Pettigrew--he was the only proof of Sirius's innocence.

I like to think that circumstances will work out so that Harry doesn't have to make a conscious choice in the matter. Meaning Voldy's actions will cause a cascade of events that have only one outcome: his death. While Harry may be the instrument in which this death occurs, I don't think Harry will have the chance to make a choice. It will just happen. The crux of this arguement is that the event would have to cut both ways, meaning Voldy would have a chance at Harry.

I don't like to think that one of the best children's characters has to commit murder: a planned killing. I think it will be much more frantic and disarrayed affair. Leaving Harry with at least the comfort of not making the descion to kill another all the while still being responsible for the death. There is a huge difference between the two.

I think if the climax of the series culminated into a duel to the death between Voldemort and Harry, Harry killing Voldemort could be classified as self-defense and would in my opinion not be murder. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, I'm only saying if it did...

I think that Harry will kill Voldemort. I used to think it would be cool if he 'vanquished' Voldemort by destroying his powers, leaving him a muggle and no longer technically the Dark Lord. But then I realized that that muggle would still be one of the most dangerous people alive. Why? Because Riddle's (and I DO think Riddle and Voldemort are one and the same, as Jo has emphasized that numerous times) greatest power is not his impressive magic, but his mouth. He can manipulate like no other. He has Bella loving him like crazy because he supposedly hates anyone who isn't pureblood...she doesn't know his dad was a muggle. He had Crouch, Jr loving him because his dad was also 'disappointing.' He played up the poor, noble orphan card to get on the previous Headmaster's good side. He convinced Quirrel, who used to be good, that good and evil didn't exist. He suckered Ginny into trusting him and then used her.

Voldemort already HAS lost almost everything...on Halloween night when he killed Lily and James. If he just loses something, he'll still be a threat.

Thus, the series must end with Voldemort being DEAD, because in Jo's world, there's no way you can come back from the dead. That is rule Number One, and Voldemort knows it. IF he's a muggle, he'll figure out a way to get those powers back. IF he's incapacitated, he'll get himself a new body. IF he's trapped in a cloven pine, one of his crazy followers will fish him out. Etc.

Now, I think the real trick will come in HOW Harry kills Voldemort. There are lots of ways he could do that and not feel like a murderer. We now know that pushing someone through the Veil will kill that person. Maybe Harry and Voldemort will be fighting and Harry will trip Voldemort accidentally and Voldy will just fall through the Veil. Maybe Voldemort will turn into a snake and Harry will have to fight him off with the Sword of Gryffindor (think Prince Rillian in The Silver Chair).

The Avada Kedavra spell is one I don't think Harry would be ABLE to do against Voldemort. He wasn't able to do the Cruciatus effectively because he's just not sadistic enough, and he never will be. His righteous fury at Sirius' death just didn't hack it. And there's no way the AK is the power Voldemort knows not. So it won't be Harry and Voldy blasting green jets at each other!

So, somehow, Harry will do some cool magic that will KILL Voldemort. With no dead Voldy, the wizarding world will always have to be on the watch for his rise, just as they were during the last fourteen years.

IF he's trapped in a cloven pine, one of his crazy followers will fish him out. Etc.
:lol: Sorry, I just thought that was funny...

We should also remember the prophesy 'Either must die at the hand of the other.... Harry must kill or be killed, so there seems likely to be no option.

I don't know if this has been said before, but what if Tom Riddle was possessed by Salazar Slytherin when he first came to Hogwarts? Would explain why he opened the Chamber of Secrets, and then blamed Hagrid, and so on before he changed his name to Lord Voldemort. But then, he is very proud of being Voldemort, and I suppose that if he really was possessed then the Slytherin part of him would let the world know?
Aveda Kedavra wouldn't work, because we know that Voldemort has used many many protection spells and techniques on himself (wonder if he knows ju jitsu?), which is precisely why he didn't die when his own very powerful curse backfired on him. Although he's now made himself a brand spanking new body, complete with Harry blood, I still think he has enough tricks up his sleeve (or Pettigrews?) to get out of it.
Also, Harry CAN use his wand against Voldemort...
"They will not work properly against each other," said Dumbledore. 'If, however, the owners of the wands force the wands to do battle... a very rare effect will take place." GOF, pg 605. Dumbledore then goes on to explain that this effect is Priori Incantatem.
Harry will still be able to use his wand to an extent, but if they were to duel against each other again, Priori Incantatem would happen again. So if Harry gives him a sneaky leglocker curse, (and I would never stop laughing :rotfl: ) he probably could. As long as Voldemort wasn't paying attention.

And I just had another thought! (Amazing)

It comes from this:
He concentrated every last particle of his mind upon forcing the bead backwards towards Voldemort, his ears full of phoenix song, his eyes furious, fixated... and slowly, very slowly, the beads quivered to a halt, and then, just as slowly, they began to move the other way ... and it was Voldemort's wand that was vibrating extra hrd now ... Voldemort who looked astonished, almost fearful ...
Is Harry a stronger wizard that Voldemort? He just lacks the knowledge of how to do everything that Voldemort can do, and hasn't used protective spells on himself the way Voldemort has. Harry sometimes lacks the motivation to learn something new (Potions for example, or Occulomency), BUT when he wanted to learn the Patonus spell, he managed it. Even though it's supposed to be very advanced magic. Yes, he teaches his classmates to do it, but it's different using the spell to make a pretty Patronus, and using the spell to fend off Death Eaters bent on sucking your soul.
I'm done now, I think :whistle:

It has been disgussed in many places already, but I still write it down as my opinion;)
I think that prophecy doesn't exactly say that Harry must kill Voldemort or vice versa. It says that 'Either must die at the hand of the other....' which could mean that there is a third person involved with this prophecy too... Someone who kills Harry or Voldemort.... (it isn't highly possible, but still...)
and...

Cat: Harry has 'power the Dark Lord knows not'. Surely that can't be simply the power to kill. Voldemort knows that kind of power all too well.

I think that this part of the prophecy ("and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...") can be also understood this way - Harry has no mystic power unknown to wizard world, but the power that Voldemort believes him NOT to have. With that I mean some of the lord Voldemort's power that have transported to Harry... Which made me think - does Voldemort know that Harry has some of his power? Just can't remember...

Personally, I feel that Harry could, indeed, kill L.V. if he had the chance. I mean, if he can have such strong feelings of hate against one of Voldemort's Death Eaters that he uses an unforgivable curse against her, there is no doubt in my mind that he could find the courage and hatred within him to kill Voldemort. Besides, if someone like that had killed MY parents, I don't think that I'd back down if I had the chance. Even though I know that killing is wrong, along with the fact that it goes against my Christian up-bringing, hatred so strong can do things to you that one could never imagine.

Probably and he'll be an idiot for letting him live and that's when Voldemort will kill Harry and that'll be the tragic Shakespeare ending.

Personally, it will not surprise me at all if HP7 ends up having Harry defeat Voldmort in some other way than simply killing him. In the Belgariad series by David Eddings, the main character, a young sorceror and king named Belgarion had to fight and defeat an evil God named Torak. He ended up defeating Torak by rejecting him, basically telling Torak that there was no one in all the universe that loved him. He did end up killing Torak in the end, but Belgarion defeated him and made him powerless by rejecting him. It won't surprise me at all if HP7 ends up having somthing similar happen.

I doubt Harry dies in the end, despite the love and fascination teens and adults have for HP, and the desire of some to see certain lireary conventions followed such as The Hero Sacrificing Himself Nobly For Others, or HP as Ultimate Literary Tragedy the HP series was intended for kids 12 and under. And the literary convention for those kind of books means that the Hero And His/Her Friends Win In The End, EvilIs Defeated, And Everyone Lives Happily Ever After

Hmm, I don't know, maybe they'll both die.

The nature of the prophecy may alter Harry's perspective on mercy a little bit. Most good natured people do not want to kill others , even if they are evil, but Voldemort is not your normal "bad" wizard...he is an entity that represents horror for the wizarding and muggle worlds alike. Harry is bright enough to realize what needs t be done and I believe he will do it in the end

I don't think so. Harry spared Wormtail, because he didn't want Remus and Sirius to become murderers. But Voldemort is pure evil, and responsible for thousands of deaths. I don't think he'll let him live. Because if he did, then Voldemort wouldn't have a change of heart or anything, he'd kill Harry. And then the entire world would be doomed.

Well I'm not entirely sure about my thoughts on this subject, but I'll try my best. In PoA we see Harry point his wand at Sirius and Sirius says "Do you want to kill me Harry." Harry in his brief moment of control reasons with himself saying you can end this now...but cannot kill. Moreover, Harry confronts Peter Pettigrew and even though he learns that Wormtail was the one that betrayed his parents to LV he could not let him die(even though he was not the one who was going to kill him).

I think his character transends to another level in OoTP when he sees Sirius die. He tells Lupin "I'm going to kill her" and tries the Cruciatus curse on her. Though he didn't
try Avada Kedavra he used an unforgivable curse because he wanted her to feel devastating pain. However, knowing what LV is capable of and acting his part of "tragic hero", he will do what needs to be done and kill LV.

I see LV's death as a double kill...Harry will sacrifice himself to kill LV.

It is very possible that Harry will not have a lot of choice whether to kill or not. It is likely he may have to kill in self defense or in desperate defense of another.

I agree with those who say it is fate. Harry will not do something intentional (like avada kedavra, which would probably not be even effective), but rather do (or not do) something that will result in Voldemort's death.

Maybe Voldemort's manipulated, inhuman life will be broken by sometng that Voldy cannot understand (and therefore prepare for) like Harry having perfect opportunity to kill him, but deciding not to do so, which then breaks the counter-death charm...

i do think harry will kill the Dark Lord but i dont think by wand. cuz it said in GoF that the 2 wands cannot battle each other. thats why it did that weird priori incantatum thing. it might have been different when harry was a baby because he didnt have a wand. but now that harry does have a wand i dont think He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named could curse harry when harry is properly equipped.

I don't think that Harry could kill anyone, even LV, in cold blood. Nevertheless I am convinsed that he will kill LV somehow.

The way I figure, one of two things could happen to make him kill him. Either it he will cast some other spell than Avada Kedavra (full body bind have been sugested somewhere although I don't know where) causing LV to die by "accident" or he will cast the Avada Kedavra (or some other equally deadly spell) in protection of someone else that he loves.

I doubt he would do it in protection of himself, but I do believe that in a desperate situation where he is faced with the option of killing or letting a friend/loved one be killed, he would not hesitate to kill.

harry is uncapable of using an unforgivable curse even if he is filled with hatred and/or anger beacuse as bella says :you need to mean them,potter! you need to really want to cause pain-to enjoy it.
i dont think harry could enjoy or find plesure in causing people pain, no matter how hate filled he is.

everyone seems to forget that this is a WAR. in war people kill other people without feeling guilt. its true that soldiers have traumas from wars, but thats most usually from the scenes they have witnessed (ex. friends getting blown up) its not from the guilt of having killed, so i dont see why harry killing voldie is bad or guiltcausing, killings in war are never labelled murder, so i dont see why harry killing voldie should be?

and in the last war i seem to remember that aurors were allowed to kill.
i really think its important we think of this as a war.

I guess, yes but if it is Voldemort... He might not let Voldemort live because he knows that Voldemort will never change and the blame, guys... the blame will be on him and Harry is sick and tired of that...

I don't think that Harry could kill anyone, even LV, in cold blood. Nevertheless I am convinsed that he will kill LV somehow.

I agree with you Jessica. I'm thinking that Harry will somehow be responsible for Voldemort's death, but in a more indirect manner. That would still fulfill the prophecy, since "at the hand of" is synonomous with "as a result of". So, Harry could do something which would indirectly cause LV's death, without it being murder. (Although, if Harry does kill LV directly, I won't hold it against him. ;))

For example, and yes, it's a silly one, but it's meant only to illustrate what I mean by indirectly, not what I think will actually happen.

Harry digs a really deep hole in the ground. Voldemort is running, falls into the hole and breaks his neck and dies. Harry didn't push him in the hole forcefully causing his death, however he dug the hole which ultimately led to the death. Therefore, Harry would be indirectly responsible for his death. Hope that makes a bit more sense. :)

I think Harry knows what has to be done and he knows he has to do it, and if that means killing some death eaters on the way, I think he would but not because he's going to turn into some killer - because the fate of the world rests in his hands and he doesn't have the luxury of a conscience. If he let himself feel bad about killing death eaters, they would sense the weakness and kill him. He has to kill or be killed. Boys younger than 17 have fought in wars - and they did it because they had to.

I do not believe Harry will kill Voldemort outright. I'm not sure he can.

I think Harry and Voldemort are essentially one and the same. If Harry can "kill Voldemort" will something "normal" like an AK curse, then the spirit of Voldemort can easily take Harry over completely. I think he needs to defeat Voldemort with some can kind of action of love, but I don't know what! Most likely, I think Harry needs to be willing to die, which will somehow kill Voldemort. Unfortunately, it seems like this means Harry will die too.

Personally, it will not surprise me at all if HP7 ends up having Harry defeat Voldmort in some other way than simply killing him. In the Belgariad series by David Eddings, the main character, a young sorceror and king named Belgarion had to fight and defeat an evil God named Torak. He ended up defeating Torak by rejecting him, basically telling Torak that there was no one in all the universe that loved him. He did end up killing Torak in the end, but Belgarion defeated him and made him powerless by rejecting him. It won't surprise me at all if HP7 ends up having somthing similar happen.
That sounds a bit like the end of "Merlin" where everyone decides to "forget" the villain and stop believing in her, and she spontaneously disappears.

I think he needs to defeat Voldemort with some can kind of action of love, but I don't know what!


Group Hug? :rotfl:

Sorry that was just so funny... I think I know what you mean though about an act of love, probably selfless sacrifice and yes that would mean Harry dies but he would die a hero.

Maybe Harry lets Voldemort live and then kill him ACCIDENTALLY.

I don't think Harry can let Voldemort live - since only one of them "can survive." I hesitate to jump into fairy tale/mythological conclusions here, but there are stories in which the hero chooses to sacrifice himself, and in that choice, instead defeats the monster....and survives. Reborn, so to speak. Of course, I cannot find my example right now. But it is wishful thinking!

Harry won't let him live. Besides, I think he REALLY wants to kill him. All the hatred that bottled up inside when *spoiler warning*






Sirius died. Plus, in the third book, he wanted to kill Sirius.

Harry won't let him live. Besides, I think he REALLY wants to kill him. All the hatred that bottled up inside when *spoiler warning* Sirius died. Plus, in the third book, he wanted to kill Sirius.Yes, I agree Harry really does want to kill him. But I think that is a problem. Voldemort wants Hary to be filled with anger and hate, then Harry can be just like Voldemort, and thus unable to defeat Voldemort with the mysterious power that Voldemort has not.

Yes, I agree Harry really does want to kill him. But I think that is a problem. Voldemort wants Hary to be filled with anger and hate, then Harry can be just like Voldemort, and thus unable to defeat Voldemort with the mysterious power that Voldemort has not.


I suppose if the reason behind what Harry does is driven by hate, it would make him like Voldemort - but on a different level. If Harry was consumed by hatred then he could very well turn evil. I don't think Harry could ever be fully taken over by his hate for Voldemort but I guess if his actions were motivated by revenge, that love would be diminished but could it ever be comepletely gone? And where does this love come from, Lily's sacrifice?

Two thoughts, and my apologies if I repeat anything thats already been said.

I believe that Harry would not have the "evil" to use AK. In PS/SS Mcgonogal says that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort. Dumbledore replied that Voldemort had powers he would never have, and Mcgonogal says that is because he is too noble to use them. I believe this will be the case with Harry and AK. He would not use it, I think that the unforgivable curses require a base level of evil, which Harry just doesn't have, hence why his cruciato failed.

Another thought I had was the veil. I recently read the Changeling hypothesis, and have begun to consider as more and more valid. Perhaps when Voldemort possesed him Tom Riddle returned to Voldemort, partially and now Harry must cross through the veil and leave the rest of Tom there, with most of his soul through the veil Voldemort what suffer a fate worse than death.

Hate is not the only emotion that one can commit murder for. Hyperthetically, Harry could kill Voldemort to save someone he loves (no, not only romantic love - in GoF, they took Ron to the bottom of the lake...), it could be for the protection of the world as 'we know it'.
Yes, I think he could do it.
My friends theory about this is brilliant though. He reckons that the worst thing that could happen to Voldemort would for him to be stripped of all his powers and be sent to a mental home. I can just picture him declaring that he is a mighty wizard and all the doctors increasing his medication.
Anyway, your guess is as good as mine. I really don't want to see Harry become a murderer, but if I had to chose between Harry and Voldemort (as I must), I will grant Harry the permission to murder him anyday...

Odd. We see mirrors in Books 1,2 and 5. Could that be part of the weapon? Could SB and L/JP be bart of the weapon? Could LV become a ghost?

Could LV try to kill somebody, and HP kills LV under the principle of double effect?

wow my first thread to reach 7pgs woohoo

I think Harry is capable of killing, but I don't think he'll ever be willing to. As I noted in the "Murderer or Victim" thread, whenever Harry DOES have the opportunity to kill his target, he hesitates or holds back. In PoA, he could have killed Sirius long before Lupin showed up in the Shrieking Shack, but hesitated. Shortly after that he could have had Pettigrew killed by Lupin and Sirius, as he had every right to decide that, but again says no and decides to feed Wormtail to the Dementors. In OotP he DID use the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix in his righteous rage, but as Bellatrix so eloquently put it "You have to mean it!". I believe that even in his towering rage and murderous intent, part of him (his conscience perhaps?) was holding back.

I think anyone can choose to kill or torture someone they hate or desire revenge upon. Voldemort does it all the time. I love the fact that it's Harry's choices that separates him from Voldemort, despite their similarities. I agree with the opinion about Harry's "power the Dark Lord knows not" being the key to ending Voldemort's life. My guess is an attack on a spiritual level, similar to Avada Kedavra but not quite. It has been said that no known spell can block AK, but perhaps this "unknown" power inside Harry is the exception? I'm really curious to find out more about that in HBP, though we probably won't find out until Book 7. :sigh:

i think harry would kill voldermort but only if he was threating somebody harry loved. he was pretty prepared to kill sirus when he through he was responsible for the death of his parents

I don't think it's in Harry's character's nature to be able to consciously kill another person--and Voldemort is surely another person in Harry's eyes despite the things he's done. Harry relates to Tom Riddle, and has seen too much of his history to dehumanize him in Harry's mind.

Harry is the hero of the story, the person who has the point of view and with whom we all can relate to on one level or another. Giving Harry a character journey that involves him becoming someone that would become a conscious killer would be devastating and is very farfetched; something I doubt Jo Rowling would do. She knows this series is read by kids, and knows what a horrible role model Harry would become if she made him into a killer. Jo is too socially conscious not to realize the effects of giving children a role model who becomes a killer.

I seriously doubt that the end of book 7 will be as simple as Harry facing Voldemort in a duel. This isn't to say that Harry won't have to face whether or not he is emotionally able to become a killer. He will probably come face-to-face with this choice soon enough. I think, however, that Harry's character has been set up and proven as someone who values life too much to ever become a killer. Even when he is infuriated (Bella), even when he, in his passion, desperately wants to kill (Sirius), when the moment comes and he pauses to consider, he is unable to go through with it.

He will have to confront his need to kill Voldemort, and find that he is unable, in a direct fashion, to do so. Indirectly killing Voldemort, however, is another story altogether. And while I'm strongly disinclined to believe that Harry would kill even in self-defense (he knows of too many ways to distract the would-be killer that would be just as effective and not lethal), I'm not completely ruling out the possibility. But IM(not-so)HO, it ain't gonna happen.

Anybody is capable of killing when their own life is at risk.

Capable, yes. Willing, no. Many pacifists are capable of killing, but they also understand that there are other ways of making a point or preventing a death. Harry is like this. He loathes Voldemort because he is a killer and murderer, and specifically murdered his parents. Being willing to kill is a trait that Harry hates so much that he'd do anything else rather than become a killer himself.

Voldermort or Harry MUST die, to make the prophecy true. Now as to whether Harry kills Voldermort or not is to be seen. Harry might not have to kill Voldermort, but instead die or they even might die together.

I believe there is a connection to Harry's eyes and something to do with how the series ends, but we have to see what happens in HBP and Book 7.

i think harry has a dark side, not as dark as voldemort but he is angry about the people he has lost because of voldemort, and i think he could kill him and i doubt he would let him live

well, this could be crazy, but has anyone read ender's game? ender is tricked into killing the alien buggers because there was no other way he could do it. this could happen to harry. dumbledore might do something to make harry accidentlly kill voldemort. what do you guys think?

I think that under normal circumstances Harry wouldn't be capable of killing, but since he knows that he has to, and he truely hates Voldemort. He will be able to muster up enough will power to go through with it. That is if Voldemort doesn't beat him to the killing. *dodges rotten fruit*

then again...who knows? voldemort might just kill harry and be done with it. that would make one heck of an ending!

(duh im kidding)

Oh your theory doesn't sound stupid:) It's a good idea but personally, I find any storyline based on time travel gets really complicated and well...sometimes unbelievable. I really hope that won't be how the defeat Voldermort, because once you mess with time travel, you mess with everything. I think it would be too dangerous to kill VOldermort in the past because who knows what might have happened because of him? As far as we know maybe some characters wouldn't even exist anymore, or people who are now good could be evil ect...the possibilities are infinite...

I really hope that Harry doesn't actualyl have to kill anyone in order to stay alive. I like the idea someone brought up of him maybe only having to destroy Voldermort but not Tom Riddle. I'm really interested in finding out more about Voldy's past. What made him become this way? Hopefully, a part of Tom Riddle is still present.

Personally I'm not sure I would see killing Voldemort in the same light as killing anybody else--I wouldn't see it as murder, more like self defense (be that as it may, I don't think I'd be able to go through with it, personally).

The fact that Harry thinks killing Voldemort (of all people) would be murder says a lot, I think.

I think that all people no matter who they are, are capable of murder. It's human nature. Murder depending on the circumstance is not about ethics is about survival. If you had a choice between your life and someone elses and that person was also trying to kill you, you would pull every defense mechanism possible in order to survive. I don't think murder is beneath anyone especially if their life is the one hanging in the balance.

I think a key question that should be asked here is- "Is Harry Potter really capable of killing?" My answer- No, I don't believe he is. Though Lord Voldemort is he most evil, twisted sorcerer in the world, and though he is the reason Harry is an orphan, I don't think Harry will be able to conciously kill him. He wasn't able to kill Sirius Black in POA, though he believed that he was his parent's betrayer. He would not let Peter Pettigrew die either, when he found out the truth. I think that, for all his love, he could never bring himself to kill anyone.
Who here has read the book Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card? For those who haven't, Ender is a young boy who is tricked into killing off an entire race of aliens who are attacking his planet. He is the only one who can do it, but can't bring himself to. See any similarities? Well, this could happen here. I think that maybe DUmbledore or someone will have to trick Harry into killing Voldemort for him to be able to do it. What do you think?

To be honest, I don't think that Harry will kill Voldemort, or Voldemort will kill Harry. In my opinion it can't just be that simple, there has to be something more complicated to it.

The prophecy is that Harry will have the power to vanquish or defeat Voldemort. I believe that Harry won't have to kill Voldemort.

Like Dumbledore says to Voldemort in the MOM, "We both know that there are are other ways of destroying a man, Tom."