How will Fudge lose his grip on power?

Greetings,

I'm quite surprised no one has started a thread on this topic. Of course we have all sorts of wonderous threads discussing Fudge (eg Cornelius Fudge - what next? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12201)), but we don't seem to have one on this latest snippet of concrete information (hoorah!) that JKR has offered us for books six and seven:

miggs: Is there going to be a new minister of magic in the next books?
JK Rowling replies -> Yes. Ha! Finally, a concrete bit of information, I hear you cry!

So, the question begs: what is going to happen to Cornelius Fudge? How or, more importantly, why does he lose his grip on power? I think our options are:

1. He flees, unable to cope with Voldemort's return.
2. He's pushed out by forces either opposed to his rule, or for other reasons.
3. He's killed.
4. He runs off to join Voldemort (unlikely, but you never know).
5. He resigns (ha!).

Feel free to speculate. I honestly don't have a clue, although I can imagine that Fudge would be the sort to flee for his life. He might think that because he's Minister he's a target for Voldemort's wrath. As self-preservation seems to be his number one priority he might decide to run off.

LOL, you're right. Fudge, resign? Never. He's much to pompous to take the public beating. I could see him fleeing, but trying to make up some story to cover for him. He might not do it right away, though. I think it might take a little scare from the DEs or something to set him off. He'll try to stand up at first, until he has something tangible as an excuse to run for his life.

I could also see him getting killed, but then that would almost make us want to feel sorry for him (I said almost!). And he deserves no sympathy.

Don't really see him joining Voldy, either. If he were forced out, I'd say it be by somebody like Amelia Bones -- a tough chick who knows (or figures out) what a slimeball Fudge is. It would have to be somebody furious that Fudge convinced the country not to believe Voldy was back.

At this point, who is on Fudge's side?

I think he'll be forced out of office that is if he doesn't leave of his own free will. Unless of course he really is a Death Eater and he's the one that has to be killed.

Voldemort is going to blast him into next week ... or he'll accidently walk through the veil.

Death, its gotta be a death, nice and gruesome, maybe traumatic as well. Whether Voldemort does it or not is another question...

Now that we know what specifically is going to happen, I'm glad there's a thread to discuss it.

Fudge is spineless. His world has fallen around him just when he was beginning to believe he had control over it. Him getting killed would martyr him in a way. He doesn't deserve that. No, he'll be made to resign or voted out. In disgrace. Question is how soon?

personally i agree that fudge will get the boot in the summer...since he's been publicly trying to humiliate AD. As for dying he'll probably kick it sometime during *** school year trying to get back power...which is a sad thing cuz he will leave a wife behind(i wonder if he had kids?). Its highly doubtful that he will try to join with LV but you never know.

This thread brings up the question though if CF gets the boot what happens to those around him esp umbridge and percy, which of course is already on another thread...but we should focus on his alliance with fudge. What was percy again the secretary to the minister? As for umbridge I wonder if she'll turn out like that dude from the second book.

Now the wizard public knows that Fudge has been misleading them, his popularity will go right down. It's not clear how much influence the public has on the appointment of the Minister, but there's bound to be some impact of it on the decent people in the Ministry.

I believe he will be asked to resign as Dumbledore was asked when he lost reputation. In the current situation and with a war (Rowling re-confirm that in book 6 we are at war), that Fudge was trying to ignore, I think he has lost credibility in the eyes of the public. The war will start any time soon, and the Ministery of Magic is unprepared because Fudge stupidity.

Yes, I think he is going to be asked to resign....after that, I don't know, maybe he will go to live a golden asylum somewhere. Bad politicians never die.

I think he'll die. He's outlived his usefullness.

I to think Fudge will resign but there might be a twist in all of this. Being outcast by the wizarding world leaves Fudge at the mercy of anyone who wants to take advantage of his failure. Now who uses peoples failures to his own gain, Voldemort of course? Fudge is bound to know some very important information about the order and MoM's possible future plans. Voldemort will welcome that little source of information.

Fudge will not need to go to Voldemort, but the Dark Lord might go to Fudge and get him to do some of his dirty work in return for his life. Voldemort could also offer Fudge the chance to take back the MoM job if he wins the war. Who knows may be even Percy will join him and stay by Fudge’s side then die when Voldemort fails?

If Fudge was asked to resign, I think he'd dig his heels in at the asking, and unless a situation arose where there was a pressing need to boot him out, I can't imagine people would waste their time trying to press him out when he's not the real problem. After all, he did admit that Voldemort was back in the end, he didn't resist Dumbledore's pressure of authority, and I'd imagine that he'd become more dependent on Dumbledore afterwards out of necessity and fear - which is all that's really needed. The wizarding world doesn't need a strong leader at the moment. They have one, and they'll be more amenable to it now that they can't deny that Voldemort is back and there's one choice person to go to (and I wonder who it could be). Of course, there's the minor issue that Dumbledore might die, which might be the pressing factor to resign - and under that circumstance he'd resign willingly and run away. Power or not, he's too terrified to use the power of his office wisely... if he could actually do that.

Death is possibly but I wouldn't say he's going to die until I have a better idea of what I think Voldemort will be up to next book. A lot of this depends on circumstance...

The wizarding world has probably lost its trust in Fudge. He denied Lord Voldemort being back for a whole year. Now that people know he lied to them, they will probably demand another Minister of Magic. Fudge will realize this and will resign.

But I could see him dying, if he isn't already dead, like he is according to some theories that claim that Peter Pettigrew is using Polyjuice to impersonate Fudge.

The thing is, ginnybatbogeysyou, that no one was admitting that Voldemort was back; if Fudge was lying to them, they were also lying to themselves. Dumbledore wasn't particularly hiding that he believed that Voldemort was back - if I remebmer correctly, Dumbledore gave himself the impression of a crackpot by doing so. Maybe they'll blame him anyway, but I also think that, if Voldemort is back, they may be too afraid to bother with much along those lines.

I was just reading that scene in OotP where the DA has just been ratted out by the SNEAK and Fudge is in Dumbledore's office with everybody. Fudge keeps stepping backwards into Dumbledore's fire and setting his own robes on fire. And then he stamps out the flames with his feet. How did this goof ever get to be minister to start with? I'm sure he's practically a squib- even the young Hogwarts students can put out fires with their wands, but Fudges' wand never shows up. He's always got others around him to do magic when it's called for.

I figure he's going to step down. He'd get voted out, but I think he steps down first. He may think of a way to spin the situation, like saying he's taking a leave of absence and appointing an interim minister. But he's not going to wait around for them to vote him out because "He's much to pompous to take the public beating," as La Ginny said. The public beating of that vote is what he'll try to avoid.

The thing is, ginnybatbogeysyou, that no one was admitting that Voldemort was back; if Fudge was lying to them, they were also lying to themselves. Dumbledore wasn't particularly hiding that he believed that Voldemort was back - if I remebmer correctly, Dumbledore gave himself the impression of a crackpot by doing so. Maybe they'll blame him anyway, but I also think that, if Voldemort is back, they may be too afraid to bother with much along those lines.
You have a point there. Probably nobody will worry at first, they are much too terrified to think about it. But after a while, there will be certain persons who will blame Fudge.
And after all, Fudge is the Minister of Magic, the 'head' of the wizarding world. He's supposed to be a good leader who protects his people, not somebody who doesn'y believe something just because he doesn't want to.

I have just got a little confused as to where Fudge stands in all of this. I can see him turning to Voldemort after just listening to PoA. Fudge helped Sirius Black find out where Peter Pettigrew was. Fudge gave Sirius Black the newspaper with that article showing Ron, Scabbers and the Weasley family as a main picture headline. He gave Sirius the newspaper while he was in prison.

Was that a coincidence or did Fudge deliberately give Sirius Black the information he was looking for. Did Fudge know the where about of Pettigrew as scabbers? If so how did he know that Pettigrew was still alive?

If it was not a coincidence then there might be a slight possibility that Fudge was a DE, I mean how else would he know about Pettigrew being still alive unless he was involved in the set up in the first place.

If that is the case then Fudge might step down and join Voldemort. Some of the DE where afraid to learn about Voldemorts return, perhaps Fudge was so scared that he just would not believe that his master had come back.

Then again I prefer some of the other explanations here though.

Are you refering to that comment Fudge makes in Dumbledore's office about a dead man coming back to life and all? People always ask how Fudge knew that, but he says it after the Quibbler interview. Harry would have told Rita that Wormtail was at the grave yard. By that part of the story, Fudge would have read the article. So he needn't be any more involved than having read it.

What was Fudge doing with the newspaper on an official Azkaban visit anyway? Doing the crossword while he was actually supposed to be attending to some ministry business?

*YAY!!!!!!!!!!!* FUDGE GONE!!!!!!!!

I don't care how, I just want him gone (without sacrificing someone else like Harry......).

I really hope that the new MoM isn't someone evil.............

Are you refering to that comment Fudge makes in Dumbledore's office about a dead man coming back to life and all? People always ask how Fudge knew that, but he says it after the Quibbler interview. Harry would have told Rita that Wormtail was at the grave yard. By that part of the story, Fudge would have read the article. So he needn't be any more involved than having read it.

What was Fudge doing with the newspaper on an official Azkaban visit anyway? Doing the crossword while he was actually supposed to be attending to some ministry business?

No I am saying in PoA Sirius Black tells Lupin how he new where to find Pettigrew. That was from the newspaper Fudge gave to him in Azkaban Prison that showed Ron, his rat Scabbers and the rest of his family going on that holiday. I think Fudge betrayed Voldemort at that point and will die because of it. I think Fudge realized that he was on the wrong side and spent the whole of OotP trying to make up for his big mistake with Voldemort.

So I think he is going to die at the hands of the DE. Never mind. :tu:

I would say he will be killed. Dumbledore alone believes that Fudge was going against him and Harry in his own accord. I'd say LV and his cronies will try to persuade him to join the dark side and he will refuse,earning him the Avada, while getting the Crucio first.

We can't forget the fact that Fudge has a kind personality, even if only in small increments (he was kind enough in PoA to Harry and was concern about Dumbledore in CoS although overpowered by Governors led by Malfoy Senior to temporarily oust Dumbledore of Headmastership). He was just really threatened and blinded by the notion that Dumbledore wanted his position in the Ministry and I believe that he's got a great heart inspite of his false claims against DD and Harry. So whatever Dumbledore believes, I believe.

So, you're saying Fudge knew about Scabbers all along, and gave Sirius the newspaper on purpose so that Sirius would get motivated enough to break out of Azkaban after all those years. And when he did this (when Fudge set Sirius on Scabbers' trail) Fudge was betraying Voldemort. It was a betrayal of Voldemort because Voldemort was going to need Scabbers to get back to power. Fudge knew it all and tried to keep it from happening. And it happened anyway, so he had to try and help Voldemort's cause all through OotP. He had to try and help conceal Voldemort's rebirth by making Harry out as a nut and Dumbledore as a fruitcake. And now that he failed at this in the end of OotP, DE's are on their way to take revenge on Fudge. Is that it?

No, I really think that's too much.

I think he's going to resign out of fear and humilation. Perhaps more because he feels he's not capable of the job anymore. There's a reason he wanted to ignore the signs and I think it's because he's inept and knows it.

Denying the evidence Dumbledore and Harry gave Fudge about Voldemorts return for a whole year, can't be good for your public approval. I don't think that it is something that he can recover from really, especially since it was he who encouraged the Profit to discredit Dumbledore. The truth about Fudge's incompetent, power hungry ways will come out and I think he will be forced to resign. Or if they have elections, he will experience an overwhelming loss in favor of someone more pro-Dumbledore.

JASPER: LV did not need scabbers to be reborn. LV needs a loyal servant ...it could have been malfoy or crouch or avery.

I haven't seen any better evidence that Fudge was a former DE than in Maline's North Tower article here: http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt15.shtml

So I'm basing my opinion on that...that Fudge is the missing DE.

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters... three dead in my service. One too cowardly to return... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course... and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service." (GoF, p. 565)
We know the three dead ones. I believe we know Karkaroff is the coward (we know he has the Dark Mark since he showed it to Snape). The most faithful servant must be Moody. I think Snape is present at the circle, so it must be someone else. Reading through the clues, my vote is with Fudge.

So, that being said, I think Fudge will be a big coward and run. Everyone will want him out of office, because although he didn't necessarily "lie" about Voldemort's return, he chose to first ignore, then second publicly discredit the evidence that was presented to him...thus giving Voldemort the time to become stronger and make his comeback. So Fudge, too proud to be booted out, but too scared to hang around, will run. But I think Voldemort will be able to track him down, so he'll most likely kill him. That's what Voldemort says in his quote and I am sure he will try his best to make it happen.

If Fudge were the betrayer it would also explain why Fudge did not bother to turn up in time to help Harry and Dumbledore fight Voldemort in the MoM.

If he had then either Voldemort would have killed him or he would have told Dumbledore about Fudge and Dumbledore would have killed him. Either way he would have been killed. He could have been hoping that both Harry and Dumbledore could finish Voldemort off there and then, so that Fudge would get away with it all but it failed so instead he just appeared speechless.

It is just speculation though but I do think Voldemort will kill him after the wizarding world has made Fudge an outcast. Fudge will have no protection then from Voldemort at all.

Fudge a Death Eater? :lol:

No, he's just an idiot that's going to pay for his arrogance. Assassinated most likely. Hopefully Umbridge and Percy will suffer the same fate along with him.

BTW, I doubt he'll get kicked out of office. As someone already pointed out, most of the public was on his side, so they'd have to blame themselves. He's too power hungry to resign.

I think resignation would be the best option for him; but he's too power-hungry. I don't think he'll die though - we don't want to feel pity for him :)

It'll be interesting, to see how the election process works: candidates, campaigns, voting... I hope it's not a magical object choosing the person!

I'd be more inclined to go for 2 or 5.

That he'd either be booted out of office by popular demand, or that he'd have no other choice but to resign because he's not going to be a very popular man. I doubt it'd hold for him until death, because I'm sure others in office could kick out a Minister who wasn't up to standards, if they all pressed in. People are going to be asking questions, are going to be angry at him and are going to think twice about his capabilities as Minister, especially at a time like this. Whether he's got the top job or not, if they entire wizarding world or even the entire Ministry of Magic are against him, he can't really over-rule that or ignore it. He's short sighted, but he isn't that stupid.

I think he could flee as well, out of humiliation. He wouldn't want to be reminded that he botched up.

JASPER: LV did not need scabbers to be reborn. LV needs a loyal servant ...it could have been malfoy or crouch or avery.

NeuroComp: I know that. I was trying to understand what Tane was saying.

NeuroComp: I know that. I was trying to understand what Tane was saying.

Yes you got the idea of what I was saying. The fact that the other DE's could have done it does not really matter, what did was the fact that Fudge could have given away a DE and not just any DE but one that lead Voldemort straight to the Potters. That alone was enough to betray Voldemort and the other DE. Voldemort could never trust a DE that tells on his own followers.

Peter heard that betrayal in PoA and as far as he would be concerned Fudge gave him away and that will be enough for him to tell Voldemort about a traitor in his DE clan. The paper clearly showed Peter's lost limb and Fudge would have been one of the people at the incident that found that limb anyway.

So even if Fudge was not a DE, I still think he gave Sirius that paper because he noticed the missing limb on the rat and put two and two together.

I doubt that Fudge is really a Death Eater. He's too bumbling, terrified, and incapable as a character for me to imagine him daring to be a Death Eater - whether or not that was the winning side. He doesn't mind dishonest tricks, but we were given the impression that he'd disapprove of knowing if Umbridge used Cruciatus, and Umbridge knew it.

I'm still not sure that popular demand is going to want Fudge out of office, at the very least not immediately. They do have Dumbledore right now (and Harry, in a sense) whether the Ministry is capable or not. If Dumbledore is still as trusted as he was before - and I'm pretty sure he is - the Ministry may be an irrelevant topic for the start. He's not up to standards, but I can't tell if this is an issue the wizarding world wants to play a blame game on. The fact is, Voldemort's back, whatever damage thus far has been pretty limited, and I don't think anyone in the wizarding world would have admitted it... the deciding factor may be how silly/guilty the people who were in the wrong feel afterwards, as far as public force to resignation go.

Another option I don't think anyone has considered yet (not that I've seen anyway) is that Fudge has been 'influenced' by someone, say Malfoy, either with the imperious curse or other 'persuasions.' It could explain some of his seeming confusion when it was painfully clear that Voldemort was truly back.

Actually the possibility I mean is this. Could it be possible then that whoever 'controlled' him might also deal to him the same fate that the Longbottoms suffered and drive him insane with crucios? He would certainly not be fit for office in that case.

I agree, Fudge can't be a DE, or even do bidding with DEs in full knowledgement. He might be controlled by the Imperius Curse, but the likelihood of him being DE is very small. Not only he is too inferior to pose any threat to Voldermort, but also he was an assesst to Voldermort. As in OotP, Voldermort knew that Fudge would go against DD, and hence knew that Fudge would cause difficulties for DD even without Voldermort's effort. Besides, since Fudge was so rat-like that he always have at least 2 Aurors with him all the time, well at least out-of MoM.

But, in book 6, I can't be sure. Either someone will replace him, or Voldermort might put the Imperius Curse on him. However, that possibility is not very likely either since now Malfoy was already in Azkaban, and even he's out, he can't get close to Fudge anymore, if Fudge is still Minister. But since there'll be another one, so No, Fudge can't be a DE.

***van.

Another option I don't think anyone has considered yet (not that I've seen anyway) is that Fudge has been 'influenced' by someone, say Malfoy, either with the imperious curse or other 'persuasions.' It could explain some of his seeming confusion when it was painfully clear that Voldemort was truly back.

Actually the possibility I mean is this. Could it be possible then that whoever 'controlled' him might also deal to him the same fate that the Longbottoms suffered and drive him insane with crucios? He would certainly not be fit for office in that case.

It's not likely, I fear. First of all, recall back the scene in MoM, after Voldermort apparated along with Bellatrix, Fudge run in and saw everything, and believed that Voldermort was back. This explains a surprise and shock to him, which means he could not have believed such before. Second, if some one was under the Imperius Curse, and awaken then will realize that fact, just as Crouch Sr. But, when Fudge saw Voldermort's back, he was as surprised as many other Aurors coming in, his reactions also showed no sign of being controlled by the Imperius Curse either.

***van.

You could be right, but there are other ways of control and pursuasion besides the Imperious Curse. Money for one, which Lucius has in abundance.
Canteurervan, please use your edit function instead of double posting.

Canteurervan, please use your edit function instead of double posting.

sorry, I must have pressed the Submit button twice.
p.s: Oh, you mean I should edit my previous post? But, I was quoting your post and the latter post is a bit off topic from my previous post.

Money for one, which Lucius has in abundance

Surely, money can control people. But This is one bussiness no one decent want to make. This is business with DE we're talking about. No decent wizard, especially Fudge - Minister of Magic -, would want to earn a bit profit over his own fame. Imagine what Lockhart had to do just to draw the public attention to himself...

***van.

We were having a big discussion about this somewhere else, I think in "The New Minister" thread. Are we doubling up here, or shouldn't they be merged?

I haven't seen any better evidence that Fudge was a former DE than in Maline's North Tower article here: http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt15.shtml

So I'm basing my opinion on that...that Fudge is the missing DE.


We know the three dead ones. I believe we know Karkaroff is the coward (we know he has the Dark Mark since he showed it to Snape). The most faithful servant must be Moody. I think Snape is present at the circle, so it must be someone else. Reading through the clues, my vote is with Fudge.

JKR said in her last interview that "most fansites had to it right" about the missing Death Eaters. As the general consensus is that Karkaroff was the coward and Snape had left Voldemort's service forever, I think we can safely assume that Fudge isn't a Death Eater.

He's also not terribly capable. He's foolish yes, but I'm not sure whether he's evil.

puplehawk: The new Minister (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12107) is for discussing who will be the Minister after Fudge, not how Fudge will lose his position. That is the purpose of this thread.

Oh, okay, Rotsie. Grannies get confused on occasion... :evil:

**Off to formulate something interesting to post**

Edit: First of all, I think Dumbledore being "unavailable for comment" at the time the Daily Prophet published Fudge's interview about Voldemort's return is telling. At that juncture, Fudge would be in desperate need of a show of solidarity and support between his Ministry and Dumbledore and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize Dumbledore's lack of comment was a de facto statement of non-support.

If the captured death eaters are indeed brought before the Wizengamot to stand trial, Fudge cannot hope to survive the not-so-small matter of his too-close association with Lucius Malfoy. Likewise, if Umbridge is brought to trial Fudge again stands damned for his so-called educational reforms, not to mention his lack of control over Umbridge. She did order dementors after Harry without Fudge's consent. This can only be read as a Minister who had virtually no control over his personal staff.

I see a newly-invigorated and re-empowered Wizengamot making Fudge an offer he can't refuse - stand down and enjoy a nice pension, or face the humiliation of being forcibly removed from office and tried for criminal misconduct in office. I think Fudge will choose the former.

Oh, okay, Rotsie. Grannies get confused on occasion... :evil:

**Off to formulate something interesting to post**

Edit: First of all, I think Dumbledore being "unavailable for comment" at the time the Daily Prophet published Fudge's interview about Voldemort's return is telling. At that juncture, Fudge would be in desperate need of a show of solidarity and support between his Ministry and Dumbledore and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize Dumbledore's lack of comment was a de facto statement of non-support.

If the captured death eaters are indeed brought before the Wizengamot to stand trial, Fudge cannot hope to survive the not-so-small matter of his too-close association with Lucius Malfoy. Likewise, if Umbridge is brought to trial Fudge again stands damned for his so-called educational reforms, not to mention his lack of control over Umbridge. She did order dementors after Harry without Fudge's consent. This can only be read as a Minister who had virtually no control over his personal staff.

I see a newly-invigorated and re-empowered Wizengamot making Fudge an offer he can't refuse - stand down and enjoy a nice pension, or face the humiliation of being forcibly removed from office and tried for criminal misconduct in office. I think Fudge will choose the former.

I totally agree. It's the Wizengamot that will force Fudge to step down. However, it's only possible if some Wizengamot members were to be re-instated. Some old wizards and witched resigned in protest of Fudge's interference in Hogwarts.

***van.

Tiberius Ogden and Griselda Marchbanks, to be specific. On the other hand, there were still enough members loyal to Dumbledore - or if not loyal to Dumbledore, at least not swayed by Fudge - to override Fudge's obvious desire to convict Harry of that shameful bag of trumped-up charges. I guess we can call them the "silent majority" of the Wizengamot.

I'd say he's gone by the beginning of book 6. I don't think it'll take long for people to realize what a moron they have for a Minister, and he'll be dishonerably discharged or whatever they call it... I could just see Harry reading about it in the Prophet at the Dursley's....

Me too, i think he'll be gone by the beginning of the 6th book. He messed up way too badly to repair the damages hes done. He's such an awful MoM :grumble:

Me too, i think he'll be gone by the beginning of the 6th book. He messed up way too badly to repair the damages hes done. He's such an awful MoM :grumble:

After Rowling's interview, everyone can guess that Fudge will be gone by the end of book 6, but the more important question is how soon? Who can guess the earliest time that Fudge will be gone out off being Minister? :evil: .

***van.

Ditto on the Fudge-gone-by-beginning-of-Book-6 thing. I figure that since JKR gave us a pretty "full and frank" answer on this one, she's comfortable talking about it, so it's likely already written. I mean, has she ever revealed future details about things 2 books away? Like the female DADA teacher -- she said that after GoF, right? That's the main reason, I think, that Fudge will be out the door before you can say "purple bowler."

Great ideas by all about how Fudge loses it. Anybody else want to see a public and humiliating nervous breakdown, leading to his resignation/removal? Three cheers for insanity! :clap:

Ditto on the Fudge-gone-by-beginning-of-Book-6 thing. I figure that since JKR gave us a pretty "full and frank" answer on this one, she's comfortable talking about it, so it's likely already written. I mean, has she ever revealed future details about things 2 books away? Like the female DADA teacher -- she said that after GoF, right? That's the main reason, I think, that Fudge will be out the door before you can say "purple bowler."

Great ideas by all about how Fudge loses it. Anybody else want to see a public and humiliating nervous breakdown, leading to his resignation/removal? Three cheers for insanity! :clap:

Probably so, but I would rather say that should be a bit later than that. The earliest should be before Harry returns to Hogwarts, and the latest will be before Christmas. I have a feeling about it. Logically, Fudge will have sometime to manage it, but it might take him some time of fixing and messing so that the Wizengamot can find excuses to fire the guy, well not exactly fire but request his removal.

Public humiliation? I'd love to see it, but I doubt it. The worst for Fudge is public declaration of his resignation on the Daily Prophet.


***van

As I said before, he'll be gone by the end of the summer. It's one of those times of crisis things, they would want a new, truthful, powerful minister ASAP...

I'm afraid l'd like to see a nice long dementor's kiss for Mr. Fudge. :evil: Well, ok, I'm not that mean. But I'd like it to come really close to happening. He's been so snappy in his judgements towards others that he needs a little of the "just deserts." It would be especially nice if it was Dumbledore or Harry that saved him.

I will, however, miss him when he goes. Nothing conjures up a picture in one's mind like the phrase "lime green bowler." :rotfl:

Mags

I'm afraid l'd like to see a nice long dementor's kiss for Mr. Fudge. \ :rotfl:

Mags

A big smooch, eh? Maybe he doesn't leave office, but gets killed. No one thinks we will need a new minister because Fudge will lead a raid against some death eaters and end up dying for the cause. But he might just get killed by by the death eaters he just jailed when they bust back out of Azkaban.

I think he'll get drummed out now that the public knows what an idiot he is. I also see that power hungrey twit possibly joining V for a bit of power

Death, its gotta be a death, nice and gruesome, maybe traumatic as well. Whether Voldemort does it or not is another question...
...Or a kiss from the Dementors he has put such faith in...

Yeck... I don't like that. I don't like dementors period. I suppose we'll continue to see them doing their horrific thing to people in the next two books, but I really hope we don't have to see it from behind Harry's eyes.

Clever idea, pegoheart... he's spent so much time defending the Dementors, I think it would be a very interesting sort of irony if he were to receive the Kiss. I'm certain he'll be out of office, though. He's neither a capable leader, nor an inspiring one.

Clever idea, pegoheart... he's spent so much time defending the Dementors, I think it would be a very interesting sort of irony if he were to receive the Kiss. I'm certain he'll be out of office, though. He's neither a capable leader, nor an inspiring one.
Although you hate to think about someone having their soul sucked out, I can't help but think it would be poetic justice in this case. He's the one who set a Dementor on Barty Crouch Jr before the ministry could question him.

That was an extremely unwise decision he made... if that ever became public, I'm sure he'd be under a lot of criticism. "Poetic justice" is a good term for it, although I agree that the thought of it happening to anyone is awful. I think the gruesomeness people would feel in addition to the satisfaction would make it a very good method for her to use, since it creates that feeling of being torn between wanting two things. I really would like to see what a person is like after the Kiss has been performed on them... they haven't been too specific about that yet. Perhaps we'll see that opportunity in Fudge, if Crouch Jr. doesn't return and no one else receives a Kiss.

Harry Will Take His Job

Why do you think that, hotty1? It's an interesting idea, but I'd like to see what from the books backs up your theory. It seems to me that Harry's too young and inexperienced to be Minister... I don't particularly think he'd enjoy the job, either. I'd need more evidence to be convinced.

That Is What I Think Thats All

You could be right, but there are other ways of control and pursuasion besides the Imperious Curse. Money for one, which Lucius has in abundance.

I wonder if that will become a problem for Fudge. Maybe Lucius Malfoy will see to it that Fudge's financial dealings are exposed if Fudge doesn't help Malfoy get out of Azkaban. I think Malfoy will try every trick and loophole he can to get out on the 'right' side of the law, before he would break out. A little blackmail and unsavory financial dealings might be enough to ruin Fudge.

Edit: Make's a snappy head line for Rita!

Oh, yeah. We've been talking about that for a while. Malfoy's incarceration is also a financial hardship for Voldemort, as Malfoy is surely his financial backer - and probably to a greater extent than his charitable bribes have compromised Fudge. I put forth the idea a while back that perhaps the Wizengamot and/or the Ministry of Magic would confiscate some or all of Malfoy's cash and property for "crimes against the state," or whatever it should be called. That would be a smart move strategically.

Financial hardship? I don't think his assets are frozen, I think his wife might have control of them--in which case, no problem. It would be interesting to see Draco's reaction to having to live outside the manor for a few months--the spoiled brat!

And yes--Corruption at Ministry: Minister of Magic Accepted Bribes from Prominent Death Eater for Years or some such phrasing would make a snappy headline for Skeeter. I hope Umbridge gets punished somewhere in all this beyond having a walking stick and a sockful of chalk swung at her.

As for Fudge losing his grip on power those headlines "What the Ministry Should Have Told Us" and "Why Nobody [around here] Listened to Albus Dumbledore" lay the groundwork for the end of Fudge's administration in my opinion. That beautiful machine that Fudge cudgeled into his service will turn on him.

Oh, I don't think Malfoy's assets are frozen - yet - either. I was just hypothesizing the ramifications if they were, particularly to Voldemort. It's hard to wage a war of any kind without cash. As for Narcissa maintaining the purse strings, it's entirely possible. It's also possible she is independently wealthy of her husband. There sure seemed to be a lot Blacks roaming around with cash to spare!

I like the headlines, of course, as I've been bringing them up repeatedly for months. It struck me too as the death knell for Fudge's ministry. BTW, what do you think of the Quibbler becoming more mainstream and giving the Prophet a run for its money? I'd like to see that happen!

As for Fudge losing his grip on power those headlines "What the Ministry Should Have Told Us" and "Why Nobody [around here] Listened to Albus Dumbledore" lay the groundwork for the end of Fudge's administration in my opinion. That beautiful machine that Fudge cudgeled into his service will turn on him.

Definately agree with that. If we were to trace an actual moment that Fudge lost grip on his power, I'd take it back to the end of GoF when he said goodbye to DD~ he spent the next few weeks trying to cover up and maintain damage control, and it just kinda snowballed.

You could see it happening all through GoF, actually. Remember Fudge in Dumbledore's office after Crouch Senior's disappearance from the Hogwarts grounds? He was refusing to accept the idea the disappearances of Frank Bryce, Bertha Jorkins, and Crouch were linked. To me, the hand of Lucius Malfoy seemed obvious at that point.

That's his grip on reality not his grip on power. The point at which he lost his grip on power was the moment Williamson opened his mouth. Fudge had mortgaged so much on proving that Dumbledore was a power-mad fool who wnated to destabilize the Ministry that the appearance of Voldemort IN THE MNISTRY, the entire facade collapsed and his overbearing exercise of power was immediately called into question. That was it, he was done. He could only save his job if he kowtowed to Dumbledore. Obviously completely reversing his position did not help his credibility.

Yes, I can see that. Good point, Jord. And Williamson didn't open his mouth in the privacy of Fudge's office, but instead in the hall before a large number of aurors and other witnesses who heard Fudge's admission ("I saw him too... "). Not to mention the fact Dumbledore and Harry were within hearing distance. And downstairs there was more disaster, as Malfoy was among the captured and recaptured death eaters bound by Dumbledore's disapparation jinx.

"What the Ministry Should Have Told Us" and "Why Nobody Listened to Albus Dumbledore" are starting to sound like the words heard around the world, aren't they?

"What the Ministry Should Have Told Us" and "Why Nobody Listened to Albus Dumbledore" are starting to sound like the words heard around the world, aren't they?
I would like to see those articles too. Maybe they'll resurface in book 6.

Fudge a Death Eater?

No, he's just an idiot that's going to pay for his arrogance. Assassinated most likely. Hopefully Umbridge and Percy will suffer the same fate along with him.

If you haven't yet, read the article about Fudge being the Death Eater that Voldemort believes has left for good in the North Tower. (mugglenet) I would never have thought of it myself, but It's quite a convincing article. (Although, if it's correct, it does ruin some suspense, but that's the nature of educated prediction, am I right?) If this theory is correct, then Fudge is on Voldemort's death list, although I think he'll be ousted from power from being a blundering idiot before Voldemort gets to him.
Also, about Umbridge having the same fate as Fudge--how do we know she ever made it out of the Forbidden Forest? Angry centaurs and an equally angry giant, and no street smarts... A little doomed, don't you think? (At least we can hope:) )
Death to Percy... (only joking, folks!)
By the way, I think the new Minister of Magic will be someone we haven't seen yet, at least as a prominent character. After all, we met some really good people in OotP who we had never heard of before.

Unfortunately, DD rescues everybody, even those he should definitely leave to their fate, so we know that Umbridge made it out of that scrape to get thwacked with a walking stick and a sockful of chalk as she made her ignominious retreat from Hogwarts--rather like the filmed exit of the Trunchbull in the film version of Mathilda.

Those articles would be excellent to read if they were written in a balanced and objective way and not like the stupid tabloid smear campaign the Prophet ran for a year. I don't hold out high hopes for their publication in Book 6 but maybe JK will put them in another charity book. That would be nice.

I don't like them either. :td:

However, I did want to point out one thing on the so-called Missing Death Eater. In the first book, when Voldemort was possessing Quirrell, there were at least two occasions upon which Quirrell and Snape came face-to-face and on neither occasion was Snape exactly subtle about his suspicions. He speaks of where Quirrell's loyalties lie - and he is talking about Hogwarts and Dumbledore, not Voldemort.

Considering that at the time of his rebirthing party Voldemort had previously spoken only to Crouch Junior and Wormtail, he would remember Snape's dogged tracking of Quirrell three years earlier, wouldn't he? Isn't it a fair assumption that he would assume Snape had defected?

Jordmunt6: Oops, I forgot about that thing with Umbridge. Too bad--I like my forgetful version better:) Actually, I love the articles on the main mugglenet website--I got on the forums so I could express my opinions, too.

Fudge has been the author of his own misfortune, I don't think that its a question of how he will loose power, I think its the realisation that the second Fudge accepted a "donation" from Lucius Malfoy that his credibility and "kingdom" began to crumble and erode under him....its just a question of time IMHO and not how when he will fall off the pedestal he tried to build himself

Was that a donation from Lucious to support the MoM or St. Mongos, which was accepted by Fudge because I don't remember that happening?

There's no concrete proof, in the Quidditch world cup it was Fudge said that Lucius had made a donation to saint Mungos but in Phoenix someone (I can't remember for the life of me!) implied that Fudge had been getting "bribes" from Lucius

It was Arthur Weasley. He was discussing Malfoy with Harry right after the hearing, and said:

"What private business have they got together anyway?"

"Gold, I expect," said Mr. Weasley angrily. "Malfoy's been giving generously to all sorts of things for years... Gets him in with the right people... then he can ask favors... delay laws he doesn't want passed... Oh, he's very well-connected, Lucius Malfoy... "

There's no concrete proof, in the Quidditch world cup it was Fudge said that Lucius had made a donation to saint Mungos but in Phoenix someone (I can't remember for the life of me!) implied that Fudge had been getting "bribes" from Lucius
I think it was Arthur Weasley. After Harry's hearing. The way he said it made it seem like it was at least known to the Order and probably with in the Ministry.

Thanks for setting me straight LemonDrop and PurpleHawk....I couldn't for the life of me remember who it was who said it although I knew someone did!!

I personally think that he's too much of a coward to become a death eater or anything, but it is likely that he'll be eying the dark side, and will consider joining Voldemort, since he loves having power. Hopefully the wizarding world will see what a bad job he's doing as Minister and boot him out. If that does happen, I'm hoping the Arthur gets the job. *crosses fingers*

Interestingly, on JKRowling.com, on the rumours page, there s an advert for the quibbler, on the advert it says that Fudge is forced to flee from office, and that he is chased from office. A clue perhaps as to his departure....

http://familytied.com/images/purp/welcome.gif DaddyGav. I noticed the headline scrolling at Jo's site, too, and wondered what it might mean. I may be wrong in suggesting it, but I think perhaps Lucius Malfoy may be the instrument by which Fudge is forced to flee. Remember his finessing of Fudge through GoF and OotP? He was in Azkaban when OotP ended, but I have a suspicion he will want to call in a few markers from Fudge - and when Fudge can't deliver, the game will be up. Faced with a full-scale exposé, Fudge will have few options.

Considering how many lives were endangered by Fudge's refusal to listen to reason, it seems like poetic justice that Malfoy - who did so much to turn Fudge from Dumbledore and Harry - could also be the one to bring Fudge's ministry to its knees.

I thought that it might be that he's forced to flee because the wizarding population of the UK now realise that he's a useless lump who could have endangered them all by failing to admit Voldemort's return.

If the headlines Hermione read to us at the end of OotP are any indication, Fudge was doing a fairly decent job of short-term damage control. There will have to be something else - a major revelation, I think - to start the movement to oust him.

He put his trust in Lucius Malfoy, which was the worst mistake he could have made. Remember how close he still was to Dumbledore in CoS and even PoA? Then he shows up at the World Cup with Lucius, Narcissa, and Draco as his personal guests. His alienation from Dumbledore began to unfold from that point forward. By the end of GoF, Fudge was 100% in Malfoy's pocket and Harry and Dumbledore were beneath his interest. Fudge's actions toward them can be directly traced to comments Malfoy must have planted in his all-too-eager ears.

I don't think we can discount Malfoy's influence at the MoM, and particularly with Fudge.

There will have to be something else - a major revelation, I think - to start the movement to oust him.


You don't think the revelation that Voldemort the incredibly feared evil oppressor was back from the dead - despite Fudge's constant reassurances - is a major enough revelation? People put their trust in Fudge and Fudge got it horribly, horribly wrong.

You don't think the revelation that Voldemort the incredibly feared evil oppressor was back from the dead - despite Fudge's constant reassurances - is a major enough revelation? People put their trust in Fudge and Fudge got it horribly, horribly wrong.

Of course, I do. I was hoping the headlines "What the Ministry Should Have Told Us" and "Why Nobody Listened to Albus Dumbledore" would have set Fudge's removal in motion at once. It didn't happen by the time OotP ended, however, which is why I think Fudge's spin-doctoring might have been working - a little. Dumbledore being "unavailable for comment" is also telling - or knelling - Fudge's demise.

See, what I think is going on is that people were shocked and fearful at the end of OotP. Voldemort is back, something they hoped would never happen again. Perhaps a few of them felt a bit foolish for not recognizing the possibility he might, but, gee whiz, even the Ministry missed it! Guess we're not so stupid after all.

The willfulness behind Fudge's refusal to see the truth has yet to be revealed, however, nor has the grift passing between Fudge and Malfoy. I kinda see a situation where things could come out in Malfoy's trial, things Fudge would surely not want known. Perhaps even things he might negotiate with Malfoy to keep quiet in exchange for an acquittal on a defense based upon the Imperius curse.

I could be over-analyzing the situation. I just don't think either Fudge or Malfoy will go down quietly.

But surely Fudge wouldn't want to be seen to have anything to do with Lucius Malfoy after Malfoy was arrested on the scene of a big attack. Maybe being second best to Dumbledore broke Fudge and he has decided to go Voldemortwise, but personally I think he was just a bit like an ostrich burying his head in the sand... whether ostriches do that, I don't know, but you get what I mean.

I disagree with your prediction of the outcry of the magical people. Generally speaking, instead of saying 'Why didn't we work it out?' people say 'Why didn't you tell us?' :D.

I think J.K.Rowling confirmed it somewhere that there would be a new Minister for Magic...and it's about time Fudge went.Not only was he guilty of staggering incompetence and lack of good judgement,the Ministry under him orchestrated a campaign of slander against all the people who turned out to be right.He placed innumerable people at risk-wizards and Muggles-by refusing to believe Voldemort was back and not taking precautions earlier.And if he was corrupt too,that's just the last nail in Fudge's coffin.

I think J.K.Rowling confirmed it somewhere that there would be a new Minister for Magic...and it's about time Fudge went.Not only was he guilty of staggering incompetence and lack of good judgement,the Ministry under him orchestrated a campaign of slander against all the people who turned out to be right.He placed innumerable people at risk-wizards and Muggles-by refusing to believe Voldemort was back and not taking precautions earlier.And if he was corrupt too,that's just the last nail in Fudge's coffin.

I think his name says it all "Fudge". It's like when someone fudge's on their tax return, CV/Resume etc....

I think he'll be killed to be honest... :) *cheers* thumbs up for fugdes killing! :)

Cat, there wasn't any particular outcry when the news first broke. I guess that's why I'm doubtful the news alone will force Fudge from office. What I think is that Fudge is hoping to weather what appears to be a pretty feeble storm. Malfoy, on the other hand, wants out of Azkaban and back to business as usual. I am virtually certain he has enough dirt on Fudge and others within the Ministry to attempt to procure a deal to let him off in exchange for his silence. If you think about it, Fudge's very life may depend upon how well he serves Malfoy. Fudge won't want to be associated with Malfoy, but he may be so thoroughly compromised he has no choice.

Well, it will be impossible to keep up such a pretense with Dumbledore back as Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, not to mention the sheer number of witnesses who were involved in the goings-on in the DoM that night and in its aftermath. Fudge cannot hope to best Dumbledore in a hearing or trial - we all know that - and if Malfoy is indeed convicted and sentenced to whatever, Fudge may well have to run for it.

Drucilla, I think there is a whole lot more to Fudge's situation than mere refusal to see the truth for what it is. Corruption? Yep, I think so.

Three words to answer that question: He already has.

Now I'll go back up and read some comments :p Sorry, I work my way backwards sometimes.

Btw, I really recommend this book called "Savage Inequalities" by Jonathan Kozol. He speaks the truth about the American public school system in inner-cities. It just also goes to show that government officials only work for themselves when they are supposed to serve the people. And when they do finally serve the people when times become more desparate and dire, it would be too late to fix the problems sometimes, or the fixation would require long-term attention and tending.

If you're reading the "Rumors" page on jkrowling.com, the Quibbler ad that appears at the bottom reads "Fudge Forced to Flee- Minister chased from office"

That could mean anything or nothing.

That could mean anything or nothing.

Mmm, where JK is concerned, definately.

I think Fudge's grip on power is already slipping...he is going to have to do alot of talking and work to cover the reason why he didn't act sooner. But I don't know whether they will hold an election right in the middle of the crisis. I think he will again be asking DD for a lot of advice, and I think once the war is over it'll be bye bye fudgy!

I don't think Fudge will last long enough in office to see the end of the war. I agree with some who think that Arthur Weasley or someone close to the Order will secede Fudge as Minister of Magic.

It is possible that Fudge may be killed. Now that the ministry is aware of all that has gone on, Fudge will be suportive of the war. It is likely that Voldemort and his DEs will want to create as much chaos as possible now that his return is no longer secret. What better way to create chaos than to assinate leaders? We know that DD is feared, but would anyone truly be afraid of Fudge? Probably not, but his death would throw in the Ministry into Chaos, and would be disheartening for the wizarding public. We know we will have a new MOM (per Jo) but is is possible that Fudge may be AK'd by one of the DEs...my bet would be Lucius Malfoy!

Perhaps he won't die, but will still be nder the influence of an Unforgivable curse. I think that maybe it will be discovered that Lucius Malfoy has had him under the Imperious curse for much of the last two years. That would be a startling discovery, and very possible, now that Lucius is on his way to Azkaban (even if his stay is most probably temporary), he wouldn't be able to maintain the curse. Just one of my unlikely theories.

Interesting theory Dave, but I hope it is incorrect. The theme of "choices" is so prevelant in the HP series. Almost every wizard has learned to fight the Imperious curse with time by making the "choice" to fight. Fudges "choice" to ignore the evidence that Voldemort was back will probably cost many innocent people their lives, it has already cost Sirius his. Without Fudges fear of DD trying to take over his office, Umbridge would have never been at Hogwarts, and Harry would have been able to keep in better contact with Sirius. Also, Dumbledore would have never left Hogwarts even for a moment. Arthur would have probably not been injured, because there would have been many people guarding the hall of prophecy if the MOM had been behind the effort. But as it was, too much was done in stealth, and when things must be accomplished in complete secrecy many more lives are put in danger. Fudge endangered the lives of each and every wizard and witch by denying that Voldemort was back. He was able to keep them "off their guard" and it is a wonder that more of them weren't injured and/or placed under some type of curse or spell. Fudge refused to see the truth for his own selfish reasons. This was his own "choice" and to have him be under the imperious curse would take away his free will in making this choice. Since it is our "choices" that truly determine who we are, it would be quite a letdown, and go against the theme of the books, to have Cornelius's miserable choice be anything but his own.

That being said, it is still a nice theory, and even a plausable one. I just feel that the running theme and moral would suffer a loss if this were the case.

I think the Magical community will "kick" him out of his post. Fudge, although Dumbledore and Harry have told him many, many, times that Voldemort had come back, refused to believe them. This shows that he is a very instable leader and the magical community will chose someone else more suitable. I don't think he'll be killed off or anything though.

I think public ridicule will get rid of him. He was a corrupt minister. He refused to allow the Daily Prophet to report unbiasedly, he ignored major warnings from Dumbledore and Harry, he hid the fact that the Dementors had joined darker forces and he regularly ''socialised'' with now known death eaters. Dumbledore in some ways will be seen as a hero, which will make people question Fudge and why he tried to publicily humiliate DD.

Once the magical community realise all this, he will be seen as nothing other than incompetent and foolish. Of course, if the ''second war'' becomes as bloody as the first one, there will be a huge uproar. Fudge will be blamed for not preparing the magical community better and earlier. The combination of public humiliation and the stress assoociated with war will drive him out. Hopefully, he will get a taste of Rita Skeeter at work... i have a feeling she may have a role in getting rid of Fudge.

JK has said in an interview that Arthur Weasley will not become the new Minister of Magic. I agree that Fudge is already losing his grip on power. The daily prophet alluded to an feeling of discontent, that the public had been reassured the rumours of Voldemort's return were false right up until a week before news broke.

Even if Fudge were to continue holding a leash on Dumbledore, which I don't think he will, I can't see him enjoying the same support he had when he was concealing the return of Voldemort. Fudge is close to a defeated man.

Ithink it will just be election time and nobody will vote for him becsause of the lies he spread about Harry.

Yes, I think that people will actually start to realize that Voldemort has come back and now Fudge is getting out of office and running away just like Lockhart. Bloody coward.

Hpefully dumbledore will overpower him....please
we could use mcgonagall as headmaster

Perhaps the Wizengamot has the power/authority to oust Fudge? Something like a vote of no confidence or an impeachment? A committee formed to get to the bottom of things? The wizarding world often seems old-fashioned and the popular electoral vote is a fairly modern thing, isn't it? We have never heard a character say anything like, "Well, don't blame me, I didn't vote for him." or "I wish I hadn't voted for him in the last election.". We don't really know how the wizard system works. We have not seen a 'counterpart' to the Wizengamot (which some have compared to the House of Lords and it is my understanding that those members are not elected), so there may be only one 'branch' of the government (that being the Wizengamot who are lawmakers and judges).

In JK´s site, if you enter the "Rumours" page, there will be advertisements in the bottom of the pages of the book. Well, this ads change every time you enter, and one of the them is an ad for The Quibbler, with the following headline:

Fudge forced to flee!
Minister for Magic chased from Office!!

I didn´t found this commented here anywhere. Anybody else did seem it?
I know The Quibbler isn´t a trustfull paper, but what you think?
It seems as the magical community really changed opinion, being favoring DD now.
Maybe DD could act to put some of his friends as Minister, maybe Marchbanks.

the quibbler usually has false info, but it also had the interview with Harry, so it's possible and not inconceivable (whoa....princess bride moment) that the headline is true.

I think it is quite obvious on what will happen to Fudge. In my mind it is quite obvious Fudge will be murdered. Then when he is murdered they wont know who killed him and that person will become Minister.

We know that DD is feared, but would anyone truly be afraid of Fudge? Probably not, but his death would throw in the Ministry into Chaos, and would be disheartening for the wizarding public. We know we will have a new MOM (per Jo) but is is possible that Fudge may be AK'd by one of the DEs...my bet would be Lucius Malfoy! I dunno.... Fudge came to power right after the second war. He beat Crouch for the position. And Crouch was headed for the position because the way he handled the Voldemort situation. We don't know much about Fudge's past. But I think he would have had to of done something important to shunt Crouch aside even with the thing with him and his son. But, I do agree if he was AK it would be Malfoy. Or MacNair.

In JK´s site, if you enter the "Rumours" page, there will be advertisements in the bottom of the pages of the book. Well, this ads change every time you enter, and one of the them is an ad for The Quibbler, with the following headline:

I didn´t found this commented here anywhere. Anybody else did seem it?
I know The Quibbler isn´t a trustfull paper, but what you think?
It seems as the magical community really changed opinion, being favoring DD now.
Maybe DD could act to put some of his friends as Minister, maybe Marchbanks.
See Post #93, page 4 (just like your post #106!):

If you're reading the "Rumors" page on jkrowling.com, the Quibbler ad that appears at the bottom reads "Fudge Forced to Flee- Minister chased from office"

That could mean anything or nothing.
See? Now, Quibbler articles usually have at least a grain of truth in them, found at the beginning of articles and in the headlines. So, yes, I think it means something! :eyebrows:

Jk did say there will be a new Minister of Magic.

He did a horrible job during the past year, ridiculing Dumbledore and Harry, even thought they were right. But he still wasn't kicked out of office.

Do you think there will be some sort of scandal and he will be removed from office? Do you think will be killed by the DE?

Jk did say there will be a new Minister of Magic.

He did a horrible job during the past year, ridiculing Dumbledore and Harry, even thought they were right. But he still wasn't kicked out of office.

Do you think there will be some sort of scandal and he will be removed from office? Do you think will be killed by the DE?
I don't think there will be a scandal per say....I think it will be more of the Wizarding Community will be really mad at him and toss him out of office for not listening to Dumbledore.

How do you suppose the Wizarding community will manage to get rid of Fudge? Is it election time? Does the Wizengamot have the power to either call for an election or oust Fudge themselves? Is there an electoral system?

Personally, I think Fudge's grip on power is already slipping. He has been misusing his office as Minister for at least a year. Now that Rita Skeeter can write what she wants to again, I think she will write quite an expose' article on ol' Cornelius and it will lead to the outcry for Fudge's removal. What I am not sure of is how much influence Fudge will still have on the Daily Prophet. I am sure he would try to squelch such an article--by anyone!

How do you suppose the Wizarding community will manage to get rid of Fudge? Is it election time? Does the Wizengamot have the power to either call for an election or oust Fudge themselves? Is there an electoral system? That's a good question. I'm only assuming it's by popular vote, because in GoF, it said something like, Crouch lost his shot as Minister because people were appalled at the way he treated his son and wanted someone more compassionate in office. But, I am curious to know how they do come up with a new minister.

I predict.....We will find out in Book 6! lol

Do you think we ought to start a thread called, "When will Harry be old enough to vote?" more laughter here

Now that he admits that Voldemort is back he owe lots of appologies it hink he will jsut get over whelmed

If Fudge were to be chased out of office politically, I can easily imagine the charges brought against him.

1. Abuse of Power and Office - Used his political office to silence all those who knew of Voldemort's return. Used the Daily Prophet to discredit those who spoke against his actions or spoke of LV's return.
2. Slander - Publicly slandered the head wizard of the Wizengamot, two other ran king members of the Wizengamot, and The Boy Who Lived.
3. Corrupting the Educational System - Creating a position at Hogwarts, filled by a member from his office, in an effort to gain political power over the teachers and students at Hogwarts.
4. Bribery - Known ties to suspected DE's.

Any others from Fudge specifically?

I also think that he will be forced out of office for not doing anything when he first found out that LV is back. The wizarding community relies on him to make good decisions, to keep order in the community and he has been unable to do so.

He hasn't been able to recapture Sirius, even though we all know he's innocent, the rest of the wizarding world doesn't know. He has repeatedly denied that LV is back, even though a figure as important as Dumbledore claims he is. He has called Harry delusional and crazy, has even taken him to court and very RELUCTANTLY admitted that Harry should not be expelled from Hogwarts.

All in all, I think that fudge has some hard times ahead of him...

I think Fudge has already lost his grip on reality - he sees the world as he wants it to be, not as it really is. Losing his grip on power is just one short step away, now. I don't think anyone in the wizarding world respects him, and it's hard to be in charge when everyone you're supposed to be in charge of and everyone you work with thinks you're an idiot.

Red Quaffle mentioned JKR's interview where she claimed that Arthur Weasley would not be the new Minister of Magic. Does that mean he will never be the MoM? For whatever reason, Fudge should be gone (*cheers*) but how he goes and what the political situation looks like at that time could play a role. Could an interim MoM step in for a time until a more permanent person can be appointed/elected when things settle down?

My reason for asking is this...
In the books, Ron is most always wrong when he assumes something but is usually right when he jokes. In OOP p 652, Ron says, " We've got about as much chance of winning the Quidditch Cup this year as Dad's got of becoming Minister of Magic."

They won the Quidditch Cup.

I know that JKR chooses her words in interviews very carefully. So while she did say that Arthur wouldn't be the "new" MoM, doesn't that leave open the possibility that he could be one in the future? The "eventual" MoM? Just a thought.

/votes for Arthur :tu:

I think he'll break down and go crazy.

I have several thoughts

I wonder about taking all of those donation from LM, maybe he will be accused of aiding and abeting a death eaters...., not found guilty of course but forced to leave the ministry....a goblin assignation possibly or DE to protect methods of other DE. Maybe he will go crazy like the longbottom's and end up in St. Mungo's.

I think he has allready lost his grip. And is just being a puppet of the death eators. The demonters are out of his controll.

1. He flees, unable to cope with Voldemort's return.I could see Fudge fleeing if things become too much for him to handle. I think it depends on when Fudge will lose his position as Minister of Magic. If he loses it in the middle of book six when the war is going full swing, I think it’s plausible that he may just flee to save his skin. Especially so if the Death Eaters and/or Voldemort himself decide to attack the Ministry of Magic again, this time when the Ministry employees are actually working there. In that case I could definitely see him fleeing.

2. He's pushed out by forces either opposed to his rule, or for other reasons. 1. Abuse of Power and Office - Used his political office to silence all those who knew of Voldemort's return. Used the Daily Prophet to discredit those who spoke against his actions or spoke of LV's return.
2. Slander - Publicly slandered the head wizard of the Wizengamot, two other ran king members of the Wizengamot, and The Boy Who Lived.
3. Corrupting the Educational System - Creating a position at Hogwarts, filled by a member from his office, in an effort to gain political power over the teachers and students at Hogwarts.
4. Bribery - Known ties to suspected DE's.I think this is the most likely way that Fudge could be removed from his position as Minster of Magic; these charges are pretty serious. It’s possible that the Wizengamot could bring up these charges and thus Fudge may be voted out. In addition to these charges however, it’s also possible that they could decide that Fudge is incapable of bringing the wizarding world through the Second War against Voldemort. For one thing, the dementors escaped Ministry control under his reign (for lack of a better term). I also think it’s questionable, given his tendency to deny things that he doesn’t want to deal with, that people may realize that Fudge probably won’t deal with Voldemort’s return in a very competent manner.

3. He's killed.This is a possibility that may occur either as the cause of his losing his power as Minister or after he’s already lost the position. I think Voldemort is more likely to focus on killing people like Dumbledore and those in the Order rather than Fudge, whose denial of Voldemort’s return worked very greatly to his advantage. In short, I don’t think Voldemort considers Fudge much of a threat. So if Fudge were to be killed, I think it wouldn’t be the result of Voldemort specifically targeting him.

4. He runs off to join Voldemort (unlikely, but you never know).I agree with your assessment that this is pretty unlikely, so I don’t think Fudge will lose his power as Minister in this way.

5. He resigns (ha!).I agree Fudge would never resign willingly- he enjoys power as Minister far too much.

Does anyone else think that if Fudge was removed from office, he'd kill himself? I mean he was seemed to get crazier along Book 6, much like Umbridge did.
After the Wizarding community, Rita Skeeter, and the Wizengamot come after him about his actions towards DD and his lack of action towards LV, Fudge might finally lose his mind and take his own life.

I too think he has already lost it. At the end of OotP he was discredited as far as LV was concerned. Then there are all the crimes he commited; they aren't really that severe. Azkaban has no guards so going there might not be an option. He might just snap and end up at St. Mungo's.

I expect JKR will replace him early on in HBP. She has already told us there will be a new MOM. Fudge may just fade into the sunset. We can only hope.

Does anyone else think that if Fudge was removed from office, he'd kill himself? I mean he was seemed to get crazier along Book 6, much like Umbridge did.
After the Wizarding community, Rita Skeeter, and the Wizengamot come after him about his actions towards DD and his lack of action towards LV, Fudge might finally lose his mind and take his own life.

i think there is a good chance that he could kill himself i mean, hes been selfish n stubbborn which has endangered the lives of the whole wizarding world, if i was him, i'd at least dissapear to some random island!

The tabloids (you gotta love the british press) will make a monster out of him wipping up public outrage at the fact that important facts have been kept hidden...... hmmm sounds familiar *cough*TonyBlairandthefourtyfiveminuetfakeness

sorry, something in my throat.

I think he'll be booted out on a vote within the wizengamot, just like they did with harry about his 'underage use of magic' against the dementors.

I have to agree that Fudge will be forced out because everyone realises what a mess he's made of everything. There is a massive possibility of him going to Voldemort - look how power crazy he got in book 5.

but if he does get kicked out on his jacksie, he'll blatently hav some kind of nervous break-down, u cant do all of the things he has n then act as though nothing happened (again) or pretend it was bad advisors or something.

I think he will be fired or resigns

I have a feeling that it will be the dementors and Azkaban that cause Fudge to lose his grip on power. Azkaban holds the most dangerous wizards and witches with the dementors in control. Dumbledore stated in GoF that he thought Fudge was wrong, that he had made a huge mistake when appointing such creatures as the dementors to guard the prisoners in Azkaban as they where loyal supporters of Voldemort. If the dementors switch sides and stop guarding the prison, then all the convicts would escape and Fudge will be seen as making a serious political mistake, one that could have him thrown out of office.

I have a feeling that it will be the dementors and Azkaban that cause Fudge to lose his grip on power. Azkaban holds the most dangerous wizards and witches with the dementors in control. Dumbledore stated in GoF that he thought Fudge was wrong, that he had made a huge mistake when appointing such creatures as the dementors to guard the prisoners in Azkaban as they where loyal supporters of Voldemort. If the dementors switch sides and stop guarding the prison, then all the convicts would escape and Fudge will be seen as making a serious political mistake, one that could have him thrown out of office.I think you've made a very good point. This would be especially true if the dementors also turned on the wizarding public.

I think he will be pressured to leave but will be left with the option to resign his position in a manner that makes it look like his health or problems that had nothing to do with his job.

In other words he resigns because he says he has a medical problem, or he is needed at home due to a family problem that needs his attention.

So the MoM gets a new Minister and both the MOM and Fudge get's to save face even though most know he is a fool.

Works out best for both.


However the death idea may indeed be part of the situation because I was thinking that someone was going to die in this next book...this could be fudge and not too many people would be upset about losing another favorite character like Sirius.

I believe he will be forced out of office by the public who will not tolerate that he ignored Voldie's return for almost a year. After all, if he had listened to DD in the first place some actions like removing the dementors and envoys to the giants (as DD suggested) would have been taken and the public in general would have been better prepared. I think Fudge's lack of judgement has given Voldie the chance to regain many of his not DE supporters and that could prove disastrous. I don't see any chance how normal wizards will tolerate that and he's kicked out of office because of that.

After the Voldemort scandal I think that the wizarding community would want a more responsible MoM.

On Jk's site it says that Fudge was forced to flee the office

On Jk's site it says that Fudge was forced to flee the office
where does it say that??? I'd like to see that myself. :p

On Jk's site it says that Fudge was forced to flee the office

Unfortunately, it's in the Rumors section on her site. However, since she mentioned that there will be a new minister, perhaps this rumor is true.

After the Voldemort scandal I think that the wizarding community would want a more responsible MoM.That or someone to blame. And who better than the one responsible for supressing the truth and preventing preventative measures to be taken before Voldemort can consolidate his power. I believe it will be a public outry that forces the powers to be (whomever they are -- related to the half-blood prince maybe?) to effect the demise of one Corny Fudge.

I think he will either be killed, mocked out of power, or will go insane by worryin overDD

He's a very busy man isn't he? I don't really see him being killed - no one would miss him and his death wouldn't change the main characters' (Harry, Ron, Hermione) ways of thinking. I have two theories: he'll just have a nervous breakdown and resign....or, he'll be threatened to resign. Since the second war has started and it is dark times I suspect that he'll be threatened in some way is the most logical of the two.

The Goblins will murder him. They are angry he dind't pay them their due. i don't think he could be booted out from office any other way...

I think after people have relized that harry and dumbledore have told the truth, they will fell really stupid and think that he is really stupid

I do not think that Cornelius is the missing Death Eater. If he was, he would've felt the burn upon his left forearm. How could he ignore this? And even IF he was, he wasn't at the first meeting where Tom and Harry dueled. So, either way he would've been killed for not going to the meeting. OR if Fudge was a Death Eater, could he not be spy for Albus? Clearly he wants to get rid of his past and rid of any affeliation with Lord Voldemort. This is what I think

Well he will most likely be highly stressed out. As far as i could tell he will make up with Dumbldore and Harry. He now relizes the huge mistake he made and will have lots of guilt could that have slowed something down had he helped voldemort i guess we will never know. HE will prob get outta there or get to streesed and resighn. I think Dumbldore if he would still be aloud to be headmaster should take on both responisbilites if he could or he needs to be aroudn fudge a lot. It hink he will pressured out and i think he will decide to listen to people who are more informed then he is.

Greetings,

I'm quite surprised no one has started a thread on this topic. Of course we have all sorts of wonderous threads discussing Fudge (eg Cornelius Fudge - what next? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12201)), but we don't seem to have one on this latest snippet of concrete information (hoorah!) that JKR has offered us for books six and seven:



So, the question begs: what is going to happen to Cornelius Fudge? How or, more importantly, why does he lose his grip on power? I think our options are:

1. He flees, unable to cope with Voldemort's return.
2. He's pushed out by forces either opposed to his rule, or for other reasons.
3. He's killed.
4. He runs off to join Voldemort (unlikely, but you never know).
5. He resigns (ha!).

Feel free to speculate. I honestly don't have a clue, although I can imagine that Fudge would be the sort to flee for his life. He might think that because he's Minister he's a target for Voldemort's wrath. As self-preservation seems to be his number one priority he might decide to run off.
1. Fudge flees, unable to cope- I think that this option has the most possibility against all the others. Fudge doesn't posess the ability to think for himself (as we are told in SS- he frequently owled Dumbledore for advice) so the only thing he may be able to do for himself is flee, hide, etc..

2.Fudge pushed out by force- Likely possibility, those who can force him out don't exactly posess the time to take care of it. (Dumbledore, The Order, etc..) Most of the Ministry that doesn't follow Fudge has more important issues to deal with, since they've known that Voldemort's back. Amelia Bones (as mentioned by someone earlier) is a likely MoM member who could help push him out, or possibily a not-so-preocupied member of the Order. (Kingsley Shacklebolt?)

3.Fudge is killed. I wouldn't be surprise if this happened. I can see the DeathEaters going right for him, seeing as it's common knowledge that Fudge is very dimwitted and uneducated to anything in relation to Voldemort. Fudge wouldn't be able to fight back either, he'd be too shocked and frightened.

4.Fudge joins Voldemort- I doubt this the most mainly because Fudge just doesn't posess the courage/knowledge to join any kind of higher power in the battle- whether it's DA or DE. He's too far into the stage of denial to know what he's doing about anything, let alone running off to join Voldemort.

5.Fudge resigns- Goodness, wouldn't this be a miracle? But I think that Fudge is too stubborn and too proud (or egotistical) to bow out of power with the maturity that resigning generally requires. I just can't see him doing this at all, unless he's overpowered by some kind of higher force.

Fudge didn't inform the wizarding community- they don't want an irresponsable MoM.

1. Fudge flees, unable to cope- I think that this option has the most possibility against all the others. Fudge doesn't posess the ability to think for himself (as we are told in SS- he frequently owled Dumbledore for advice) so the only thing he may be able to do for himself is flee, hide, etc..

2.Fudge pushed out by force- Likely possibility, those who can force him out don't exactly posess the time to take care of it. (Dumbledore, The Order, etc..) Most of the Ministry that doesn't follow Fudge has more important issues to deal with, since they've known that Voldemort's back. Amelia Bones (as mentioned by someone earlier) is a likely MoM member who could help push him out, or possibily a not-so-preocupied member of the Order. (Kingsley Shacklebolt?)

3.Fudge is killed. I wouldn't be surprise if this happened. I can see the DeathEaters going right for him, seeing as it's common knowledge that Fudge is very dimwitted and uneducated to anything in relation to Voldemort. Fudge wouldn't be able to fight back either, he'd be too shocked and frightened.

4.Fudge joins Voldemort- I doubt this the most mainly because Fudge just doesn't posess the courage/knowledge to join any kind of higher power in the battle- whether it's DA or DE. He's too far into the stage of denial to know what he's doing about anything, let alone running off to join Voldemort.

5.Fudge resigns- Goodness, wouldn't this be a miracle? But I think that Fudge is too stubborn and too proud (or egotistical) to bow out of power with the maturity that resigning generally requires. I just can't see him doing this at all, unless he's overpowered by some kind of higher force.
6. Fudge is attacked and gets a big fat kiss from a dementor. He put so much stock in them guarding Azkaban.

I doubt Fudge would leave office on his own free will.

Fudge wouldn't be the Voldemort following type. He strikes me as Wormtail does- only in it for himself. He wouldn't beable to go through as much pain and agony as let's say, Bellatrix does for the cause. And that'd be very hypocritcal of him, hiring people such as Arthur in the ministry. Voldemort wouldn't forgive him.

He could get killed. He's not smart enough to get himself out of a sticky situation. He wouldn't be that hard to bribe or mess around with either, so a DE could kill him without a lot of trouble.

But, I do think he'd be voted out, or forced to flee. I'm sure the Wizegomont isn't too happy with him at the moment, and ready to boot him out the door. He's responsible for deaths, and that's not to be taken too lightly.

I was wondering something about Wizard politics: is it a democratic society (e.g. they hold elections to vote for Minister of Magic). I also remember reading in PS/SS that Fudge might have applied for the job. In that case, is it only a contract job? Maybe in HBP his contract will be up and he will be refused if he reapplies. Fudge has never been up to this job, and this would only become more evident during a time of war in the wizarding community.

It would be funny though if he is run out of office. I noticed that too on the bottom of the rumors page.

Fudge will be forced to resign. Esp. since the Daily Prophet started publishing all those pro-Harry and anti-Ministry articles at the end of OoTp, I doubt the Wizarding World is very happy with the way Fudge dealt with things. Voldemort is back, Bellatrix is on the run, innocent people died, and Fudge still refused to listen to Dumbledore and face reality.

He could get killed. He's not smart enough to get himself out of a sticky situation. He wouldn't be that hard to bribe or mess around with either, so a DE could kill him without a lot of trouble.

Thats true. And he'll probably be desperate to regain his power and reputation

FUDGE WILL BE KILLED, or attemped to be killed then run for his life like the little girl he is :P

Now that the public knows that Dumbledore was right all along, perhaps they will question why it was all hidden for so long and decide not to believe Fudge anymore. Then again, maybe he'll be kissed by a dementor becaue he tries to do the right thing by going along with Dumbledore....hmm, so many possibilities....

Fudge will definetly lose his power and be shunted off to some unimportant assignment in a useless section of the ministry. The real question is where he will go (if he stays in the ministry at all) and who will be the new minister of magic.

By the way, who has a link to the new MoM thread? could they give it to me?

Perhaps Fudge was already starting to lose his mind and couldn't see that Voldemort was back because he was already somewhat insane. I kind of see him sharing a room at St. Mungo's with Mr. Magical Me, perhaps in Neville's grandmother's green gown, hat and handbag. LOL

I think that people might get mad at Fudge and maybe the Order orders him to leave and elect another Minister for Magic.

i think maybe he put under pressure from the public to leave
when they find out he has been keeping Voldemorts Return a secret (sort of)

I think that he will loose his power, because he failed to do his job by protecting the Magical World, when he failed to belive that Voldemort was back, even though noone got hurt, I think they will want a more reliable Minister.

i think in the mass hysteria following the announcement of the return of LV, the public goes crazy and he just gets shuntted aside.

I imagine that Fudge's downfall is the lost of the Dementors at Azakaban, the lost of DE's, and the return of Voldemort. He's not the man for the job. Also, I'd guess the HBP is the next MoM.

Fudge is going to be in trouble for a lot of things.

Firstly, he has tried to cover up Voldemort's return just because he didn't want to be plagued with all this extra work. He just wanted his rein of power to be peaceful because I don't think that Fudge works well under pressure. Not just that but I don't think he wanted to except the fact that Voldemort had returned because he himself is a coward. He didn't like the idea of leading the wizarding people against Voldemort-the most darkest wizard of the age.He was telling everyone that Harry was a physco and that Dumbledore was getting way to old when in fact he was telling the truth.

Secondly, he lost control of the dementors. Now the whole wizarding community is in ddanger because he wasn't stepping up to his responsabilities and he wasn't fullfilling the job he was supposed to do.

Hagrid got it right-Cornilius Fudge is an old duffer and this very trait is his downfall.

I think people will be outraged that he did not take the step to prevent Voldemore earlier than he did ... He led them all to believe that DD was going crazy and that they were all safe .... Im sure we would all want an impeachment if our countrys leader assured us we were safe from some terrorist (even though someone else told us they were plotting) and than a year later they attacked us

I still feel that the Wizengamot will be the ones calling for Fudge's removal. Dumbledore is back as the Mugwump (reinstated at the end of OotP, Daily Prophet article). Dumbledore's supporters will surely use the knowledge that he was right and Fudge is a dunderhead for disputing the fact! Whether by some form of impeachment or vote of no confidence, Fudge will be booted by the Wizengamot.

I think everyone will kick Fugde out for putting them in possible danger but it also their fault partially for not beleiving Dumbledore in the first place.

I still feel that the Wizengamot will be the ones calling for Fudge's removal. Dumbledore is back as the Mugwump (reinstated at the end of OotP, Daily Prophet article). Dumbledore's supporters will surely use the knowledge that he was right and Fudge is a dunderhead for disputing the fact! Whether by some form of impeachment or vote of no confidence, Fudge will be booted by the Wizengamot.
If not by the entire wizarding community?
I dont think that Fudge will go without a fight. He's shown stubborness before by refusing to believe Dumbledore that Voldemort was back. BUT he is also IMO essentially a weak man so he may well cut and run. Perhaps there's some sort of procedure to get rid of the Minister, such as a vote of no confidence or something similar.
How are Ministers selected? I remember reading in one of the books (sorry, can't remember which) that 'they wanted Dumbledore' as Minister - who wanted Dumbledore? Is there a vote and if so, does voting apply to the Wizengamot or the magical community as a whole?

I doubt Fudge would leave office on his own free will.

Fudge wouldn't be the Voldemort following type. He strikes me as Wormtail does- only in it for himself. He wouldn't beable to go through as much pain and agony as let's say, Bellatrix does for the cause. And that'd be very hypocritcal of him, hiring people such as Arthur in the ministry. Voldemort wouldn't forgive him.

He could get killed. He's not smart enough to get himself out of a sticky situation. He wouldn't be that hard to bribe or mess around with either, so a DE could kill him without a lot of trouble.

But, I do think he'd be voted out, or forced to flee. I'm sure the Wizegomont isn't too happy with him at the moment, and ready to boot him out the door. He's responsible for deaths, and that's not to be taken too lightly.


How will he get fired? Three words; He's an IDIOT.

Imagine that the leader of your government, the one man in charge of keeping you safe, has spent almost an entire year making fun of Harry and the Bumblebee while writing laws to torment their school when he was supposed to be stopping the rise of the most terrible sorceror in the world.

Trust me, his butt is OUTTA THERE!

He strikes me as Wormtail does- only in it for himself. He wouldn't beable to go through as much pain and agony as let's say, Bellatrix does for the cause.
Wormtail could handle the pain.. he cut off his hand for Voldemort. I don't know many people who could do that.

If not by the entire wizarding community?
I dont think that Fudge will go without a fight. He's shown stubborness before by refusing to believe Dumbledore that Voldemort was back. BUT he is also IMO essentially a weak man so he may well cut and run. Perhaps there's some sort of procedure to get rid of the Minister, such as a vote of no confidence or something similar.
How are Ministers selected? I remember reading in one of the books (sorry, can't remember which) that 'they wanted Dumbledore' as Minister - who wanted Dumbledore? Is there a vote and if so, does voting apply to the Wizengamot or the magical community as a whole?
I don't doubt that a lot of people in the magical community will be outraged. I just happen to think that the Wizengamot is the body politic. These are the ones who make the laws (Dumbledore refers to 'writing' laws in CoS; he is currently the Mugwump, and has been through most of the series). They are also judge and jury--looks like there were three 'judges' asking questions at Harry's trial: Fudge, Umbridge and Bones. The others just listened and made comments to each other. Then all the Wizengamot members voted on Harry's guilt. No defense lawyers, the judges are the prosecutors (no special attorneys for that at this time)...

I will not be at all surprised to find that the only voters in any election for the next Minister will be those who are Wizengamot members. I also will not be surprised if there is a general election. In fact, the latter could be quite a boon to the DEs--all those witches/wizards lined up to vote, what easy targets they could be...:evil:

Fudge imposed his will on the Wizengamot to expel Dumbledore and strip him of titles. I'm not sure Fudge would have gotten enough votes from the general population to do that (and if it had been by 'popular vote', I would have expected our staunchest Dumbledore supporter, Hagrid, to say something about it). He also imposed his will to get new educational decrees launched. He will still have some supporters, he wasn't immediately removed from office. It might take public outrage to reach a certain point before Fudge is removed from office. But when the people 'call for his head', and a general election is not due to occur....who, indeed, could remove him from office but the highest court in the land--the Wizengamot. :eyebrows:

I don't doubt that a lot of people in the magical community will be outraged. I just happen to think that the Wizengamot is the body politic. These are the ones who make the laws (Dumbledore refers to 'writing' laws in CoS; he is currently the Mugwump, and has been through most of the series). They are also judge and jury--looks like there were three 'judges' asking questions at Harry's trial: Fudge, Umbridge and Bones. The others just listened and made comments to each other. Then all the Wizengamot members voted on Harry's guilt. No defense lawyers, the judges are the prosecutors (no special attorneys for that at this time)...

I will not be at all surprised to find that the only voters in any election for the next Minister will be those who are Wizengamot members. I also will not be surprised if there is a general election. In fact, the latter could be quite a boon to the DEs--all those witches/wizards lined up to vote, what easy targets they could be...:evil:

Fudge imposed his will on the Wizengamot to expel Dumbledore and strip him of titles. I'm not sure Fudge would have gotten enough votes from the general population to do that (and if it had been by 'popular vote', I would have expected our staunchest Dumbledore supporter, Hagrid, to say something about it). He also imposed his will to get new educational decrees launched. He will still have some supporters, he wasn't immediately removed from office. It might take public outrage to reach a certain point before Fudge is removed from office. But when the people 'call for his head', and a general election is not due to occur....who, indeed, could remove him from office but the highest court in the land--the Wizengamot. :eyebrows:
But the Wizengamot is the wizard court, not a parliament. It's highly likely that the procedures of the Wizengamot, as the administrator of justice, are divorced from those relating to politics. Just because Dumbledore is a member of the Wizengamot and writes legislation, doesn't mean that the two are done under the same authority. Dumbledore has many fingers in many pies.
There may be some legal procedure that is used to remove Fudge that may involve them, but I can't see that the Wizengamot would determine a replacement.
(By the way, the judges were the whole Wizengamot, not just Umbridge, Bones and Fudge. If they had been, Harry would surely have been convicted?)
We know that Dumbledore did not want to be MoM when Fudge was made MoM. Hagrid tells Harry this in PS, which would explain how someone like Fudge was able to get the position.
Re your second point, if there are elections for a replacement, I can't imagine that wizards would line up to vote. More likely there would be secure ballot owls or something. Perhaps there won't be an election at all. Perhaps there will be an impartial decision maker (a la the Goblet of Fire) which will choose between those who wish to be considered?

Re your second point, if there are elections for a replacement, I can't imagine that wizards would line up to vote. More likely there would be secure ballot owls or something. Perhaps there won't be an election at all. Perhaps there will be an impartial decision maker (a la the Goblet of Fire) which will choose between those who wish to be considered?
Yeah, I was being facetious about lining up to vote. ;)

I like the idea of a "goblet-like" artifact for choosing the next minister....But I will argue that just because someone wants to be considered doesn't mean his/her name is allowed to go into such a device (if it exists). Bartemius Crouch (Sr.) was moving up the political ladder with his eye on being Minister. But he "lost popularity" (wish I had my GoF book at the moment, sorry if I misquote) during the time after Voldemort was vanquished by Harry. So, maybe like the "age line" for the Triwizard Tournament, there is some restriction on who can put their name in for consideration (but I am not suggesting it is by age, though there may be a minimum age requirement, too).

i never actually considered him dying but now that u mention it...

dint jo mention that the next death wont make us feel that sorry at all? its possible its possible...

you know she never actually mentions WHEN there'll be a new minister. for all we know fudge is still the minister throughout the book, and is only replaced near the end.

dint jo mention that the next death wont make us feel that sorry at all? its possible its possible...

When did she say this?

idint jo mention that the next death wont make us feel that sorry at all? its possible its possible...
I have yet to see someone produce that quote...

you know she never actually mentions WHEN there'll be a new minister. for all we know fudge is still the minister throughout the book, and is only replaced near the end.
That's a valid point. People were not yet screaming for Fudge's removal at the end of Book 5....But wizards were also just being told the truth and we didn't get to see how the public reacted to the news.

I think he will be killed or they will throw him out :tu: but voluntary he won't go.

We know that J. K. has a penchant for the past, especially WWII. The similarities to many real events are striking. Book 6 is going to be the equivalent to the beginning of WWII. Fudge is almost exactly like Neville Chamberlain, who refused to face the facts, even when Hitler was obviously being agressive. He assured everyone that their was no danger, etc. etc. Sound familiar?
And who replaced Chamberlain? The great Churchill. The next MoM will be a great, visionary like Churchill. He will help lead the seemingly hopeless battle against evil no matter what the risk. Fudge will be ousted because of his incompetence. He will not have a choice, he will be brought foward by the Ministry and told to leave.
Meanwhile, Voldemort and his Death Eaters will begin the slaughter of Muggles and Half-Bloods {parallel to Hitler and his S.S. beginning the roundup of Jews}.

Good point, Flight of Death. And how was Chamberlain ousted? Might shed light on how Fudge will be removed from office...

Personally, I think everyone turns against him for being an idiot. The Barty Crouch thing in book four for one example. I have to re- read book five but he probably did something stupid there. Then he might do something else in book six.

I think that Selene Sedai has a good point. The Goblins have it in for Fudge but would they go as far as killing him? Perhaps they will go after Fudge and oust him from office. Once he has gone there will be a power vacuum until a new minister is found. What an ideal opportunity for another rebellion. Could the goblins then be split over his removal and start to take sides in the war?

Fudge, being the coward and idiot that he is, might flee from the job. I think he'll completely lose his mind and realize that he's not fit to be a minister especially if it requires handling the return of Voldemort. I think Dumbledore will be involved in this somehow. Either way, he won't bow out of his job gracefully!

I think that Selene Sedai has a good point. The Goblins have it in for Fudge but would they go as far as killing him? Perhaps they will go after Fudge and oust him from office. Once he has gone there will be a power vacuum until a new minister is found. What an ideal opportunity for another rebellion. Could the goblins then be split over his removal and start to take sides in the war?
I'd find it very hard to believe that Fudge will be killed by Goblins. Personally, I can't see how this will fit with the books as a whole. It makes more sense to have Fudge resign or be ousted as a result of his behaviour in OotP. If he is to die, I would have thought it made more sense for him to be killed by a DE or Lord Voldemort. But, as we saw in OotP Lucius has his ear and his constant denial that Lord Voldemort was back certainly did Voldemort a favour. After all Voldemort makes it clear he didn't want anyone to know he was back.

Out of all the possiblilites you've mentioned, I think him being killed is the most likely. I don't see him running away or resigning, because I think he realizes that during this time, the Wizarding World needs him. He'll either be killed by Voldemort himself or one of his followers.

If it did happen this way, it'd send the Wizarding world into complete chao's, more than its in right now.

1. He flees, unable to cope with Voldemort's return.
2. He's pushed out by forces either opposed to his rule, or for other reasons.
3. He's killed.
4. He runs off to join Voldemort (unlikely, but you never know).
5. He resigns (ha!).
All of those are very plausible, in my opinion. I think the reason he'd resign is because of realising what a bad Minister he had been, and also coming to terms with how much better than him Dumbledore would be at the job. Being killed is also a possibility, perhaps he maintains his role and so he is targeted by Voldemort or the Death Eaters? As for being pushed out, I can see Dumbledore attempting to overpower him, but in a classy and proper way of course.

I don't think that 'He runs off to join Voldemort' is that unlikely, actually. He seems to be very frightened of him and he doesn't have the strongest of minds, so perhaps he would join Voldemort's ranks for his own safety. I'm not sure that would entirely work though, because I doubt very much that he'd make a satisfactory Death Eater. He could join Voldemort if Dumbledore overpowers him, out of hatred for Dumbledore and refusal to stay on a side ruled by him?

Fleeing kind of ties in with this, if he feared his own safety and didn't have that weak a spirit then he could go into hiding.

I think he could flee as well, out of humiliation. He wouldn't want to be reminded that he botched up.
I agree. He seems to want to hold a good reputation, which would be completely ruined by his blindness in the face of Voldemort's return... I'm pretty sure that the Wizarding World wouldn't be too fond of him after he'd been letting Voldemort swell his ranks for a year and wasting time on insulting his downfall (and Dumbledore) to no end.

I think that he fleeing or being pushed out of power are the only likely things.He being killed may also be likely.

He is so adamant that he will not accept his fault and will not resign.
I don't think that he has the capability to join Voldemort. :shrug:

i believe that fudge will be forced to flee the ministry, true enough. but, i do not see him losing his mind or dying. as someone mentioned earlier, his death will serve no purpose.

Personally, I think that Fudge has an army, just as Luna says he does. Besides Voldemort, I think Fudge is going to be Harry's enemy. I believe Luna when she said that he has been developing poisons in the DOM. Fudge really wanted Harry to eat when he was in the room at Hogsmeade. Fudge kept offering him soup and nuts and all sorts of foods. Could they have been poisoned? Could this be the foreshadowing that Jo saw in the movie? Also, I think that Fudge has an army of Heliopaths because of the cover of the next book, where Harry and Dumbledore are surrounded by fire. How do they get out of that one? I don't know. Maybe Dumbledore has a way of freezing them. Probably he does. Anyway, Luna keeps trying to tell us about Fudge, his army, and his mistreatment of goblins. Everyone thinks she is nuts, which is why I belive it is true. Everyone thinks Harry is nuts too at one point, and he was telling the truth. I don't know what an Umglubular Slashkilter is, but Luna says Fudge has one of those too. Maybe not all of the story is true, but parts of it could be.

Earlier we had discussed how Fudge might be like Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister before, and at the beginning of, World War II.

This site isn't incredibly detailed: Neville Chamberlain (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/neville_chamberlain.htm)
Bolding mine below.
It was the abject failure of the British military in Norway that ended Chamberlain's time as Prime Minister. Many in Parliament saw that he would not be an inspirational war leader and many politicians refused to serve in his proposed National Government.

"It is not a question of who are the Prime Minister's friends. It is a far bigger issue. He has appealed for sacrifice. The nation is prepared for every sacrifice as long as it has leadership, so long as the government show clearly what they are aiming at, and so long as the nation is confident that those who are leading it are doing their best. I say solemnly that the Prime Minister should give an example of sacrifice, because there is nothing which can contribute more to victory than that he should sacrifice the seals of office."
David Lloyd George

He resigned on May 10th 1940 and was replaced as Prime Minister by Winston Churchill. Chamberlain served as Lord President of the Council in Churchill's government. In October 1940, ill health forced him to resign this position and on November 9th, 1940, Neville Chamberlain died.

David Lloyd Geoge had been Prime Minister 1916-1922; he resigned the post.

And from Britannia ( http://www.britannia.com/gov/primes/prime46.html)Neville Chamberlain
1937-40
CONSERVATIVE

Neville Chamberlain began his public career in 1915 in Birmingham, where he was born, as its lord mayor. In 1918 he became a member of Parliament. He served as minister of health in the ministry of Law (1923) and in Baldwin's government from (1924-29). He was chancellor of the Exchequer (1931-37) and followed Baldwin as prime minister in May 1937.
Prime minister at the outbreak of World War II, he attempted to establish peaceful relations with Hitler and Mussolini through a policy of appeasement. His approach was not without support, but it resulted in Eden's resignation as foreign secretary and generated bitter opposition from Winston Churchill.

Chamberlain engineered the Munich Pact in September 1938, negotiating with Hitler to settle the question of Czechoslovakia. The agreement signed by Britain, France, Italy and Germany gave the Sudeten, a resource rich area of Czechoslovakia, (one-fifth of the country on the German speaking border) to Germany with other areas going to Hungary and Poland. Returning in triumph to Britain at Heston Airport on September 30th, Chamberlain told a cheering crowd "I believe it is peace in our time." The peace did not last long. Germany took the rest of Czechoslovakia in March of 1938 and Chamberlain was cornered into guaranteeing Poland against attack. When Germany invaded Poland Britain declared war.

The handwriting was on the wall. Chamberlain's own party rebelled against him, forcing his resignation after British forces suffered defeat in Norway. Churchill was named prime minister in May of 1940. Chamberlain joined his cabinet briefly, resigned in October and died on 9 November 1940.

From Britannia's list of Prime Ministers (and many served as PM more than once):
At least 3 were removed from office by a king (this is early in the history of PMs)
5 died while in office (1 of those was murdered)
There were at least 19 resignations (and at least 3 were due to poor or failing health)
At least 12 were defeated in elections
Many were PMs of coalition governments
Appears that only 1 retired
At least 1 was removed with a vote of no confidence in Parliament (which led to a general election)

Obviously, there are ways to remove Prime Ministers from office; I would think the wizarding world had similar means to remove Fudge--political pressure in one form or another. :eyebrows: