Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor?

if peter was a griffindor how come he was such a whimp ???

i mean to be in griffindor you would need courage and bravery in your blood and the way peter pettigreew has been described he has neither ?!?

This thread will be closed.

Search for similar threads, because I am lazy.

A female moderator will shortly send me a PM expressing her eternal gratitude for mentioning this. A male moderator will send me an angery PM for infringing on his turf.

Maybe Peter isn't as wimpy as we think he is.

Peter isn't a wimp............he went back to Voldy and even gave his right hand...I don't consider that a wimp.......

I consider myself brave and I know I certainly wouldn't have the guts to cut off my own hand.

BTW, :lol: @ Nick

Well Harry asked to not be in Slytherin and the Sorting hat listened. Maybe Peter asked to be in Gryffindor.

look here, the hat didn't "listen", it was going to put him in griffindoor anyway.

You'd have to have at least a bit of courage in you to betray your friends! But, as seen in the Pensieve, maybe they weren't really his friends...

Peter isn't a wimp............he went back to Voldy and even gave his right hand...I don't consider that a wimp.......
You're forgetting that Wormtail did both out of cowardice.
You'd have to have at least a bit of courage in you to betray your friends!
Actually, courage is standing up for your friends when the going gets tough. Betraying your friends is cowardice.
look here, the hat didn't "listen", it was going to put him in griffindoor anyway.
According to Dumbledore, our desires are what make us what we are. And the hat definitely listens. Not only did he listen to Harry at the sorting, he had a whole conversation with him in Dumbledore's office. This is no stupid hat.

Peter may well show his Gryffindor colors in Book 6 or 7, if he hasn't already. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up double-crossing Voldemort, or perhaps has been doing it all along in ways that are too subtle to come to anyone's attention. (His apparent stupidity is definitely an act; it's pretty clear that he does have a lot of cunning and is a very powerful wizard, since he managed to become an animagus and knocked out thirteen people with one curse.)

I don't think we have seen any proof that Wormtail turned James and Lily over to Voldemort just out of 'cowardice'. I wouldn't be surprised if James or one of the other Marauders did something to him that made him want revenge enough to turn to Voldy.

Wormtail was able to become an animagus because his friends helped him. They needed him because he was the only one small enough to step on the "button" and open the tree. We know from things that have been said that he wasn't as good of a student as the others, and he kind of followed them around like a puppy dog. The man was jealous, bitter, and an underling--which makes him easy prey for the dark side. I think you're giving him far too much credit.

According to Dumbledore, our desires are what make us what we are.

Actually, he said it is our choices, and not our abilities, that makes us what we are. Choices isn't desires.

And the hat definitely listens. Not only did he listen to Harry at the sorting, he had a whole conversation with him in Dumbledore's office. This is no stupid hat.

But that's not the same thing as suggesting that Pettigrew was put into Griffindoor because he asked to be and he's really a whimp. The hat would be dull indeed if it simply placed students into whatever house they asked to be put into.

Wormtail was able to become an animagus because his friends helped him. They needed him because he was the only one small enough to step on the "button" and open the tree. We know from things that have been said that he wasn't as good of a student as the others, and he kind of followed them around like a puppy dog...
Yes, we know that from things that have been said by the people who were completely taken in by him. That, alone, suggests there's a whole lot more to Peter than meets the eye. He strikes me as someone the other characters have consistently underestimated, with disastrous consequences, and I have a feeling Voldemort is gearing up to make exactly the same mistake.

He has some bravery and cunning, he is underestimated, he is a good wizard....he brought about the return of Voldemort...

The picture I've always gotten of Wormtail is of a wimp, always being friends with the strongest person around. That's how he's been described by Sirius and Lupin, and that's the image I got from him in the Shrieking Shack.

If he isn't like that, if he's got Gryffindor courage that he's never showed just because it would be better for him not to show his real abilities, then he's seems as cunning as a Slytherin as well. So the whole denying-his-real-self idea doesn't necessarily mean that he's the most qualified for Gryffindor.

Instead, the idea I've always had is that a large part of the Sorting Hat's choice over where you go is decided by your own choice of where you want to go. And Wormtail probably wanted to be a Gryffindor.

And Tane, your signature rocks! :)

Maybe it was a case of Peter having the quality of bravery, and him being put in Gryffindor to develop this quality. There wouldn't have been a challenge for him to be in Slytherin, because his bad qualities would've risen to the surface a lot faster.

yeah i agree with sum of you guys,
peter is a "wimp" in a way because instead of being a noble friend
-AND-
secret kepper of james and lily's home
he told voldy where they were wen he threatened to kill him
thats not so decent is it?....

I think Peter has been showing his true colors for a long time. The only hope I see for him doing anything profoundly noble is the magical bond between him and Harry because Harry saved his life, and if it's a magical bond, it's not true nobility. I really haven't seen anything to the contrary, but I'm obviously a minority here.

There are different types of bravery. Not everyone who is sorted into Gryffindor will show the heroic bravery Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville and others have. Peter is brave, but not in a conventional sense. He's pathetic and weak but will do almost anything to appease Voldemort, including being courageous (or stupid) enough to let him hack off his right hand.

His motivations are flawed, but his "courage" is undeniable.

There are different types of bravery. Not everyone who is sorted into Gryffindor will show the heroic bravery Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville and others have. Peter is brave, but not in a conventional sense. He's pathetic and weak but will do almost anything to appease Voldemort, including being courageous (or stupid) enough to let him hack off his right hand.

His motivations are flawed, but his "courage" is undeniable.
I agree with that statement.
Peter wanted to be friends with the most powerful person around and did what he had to do to achieve it. He was scared of his friends but he did it anyway.
Doing something when you aren't afraid isn't bravery.
Peter's still a slimeball though. He disguised what he was doing. He just lacks the morals.

He also had the foresight to fake his death by cutting off his finger.
That takes courage too.
He acts quickly when he needs to.

Hmm...I can settle with that. You'll never talk me into liking Peter, though.

I actualy think that when he was sorted, and until after school ended for him, maybe late 7th year, he was 'brave', 'noble', and all that. He was a weak wizard compaired to James, Sirius, and Remus. But he wasn't a bad wizard. They kept him near their level, always giving him help and all that, he giving them help in subjects he was better at (I'm thinking herbology).

Then, when they left Hogwarts, they went into the War. His friends weren't there to heelp him like he needed, he didn't have his three fomidable friends by him at all times. That made him a good target. I actualy think that Voldemort ended up scaring/torturing Petter so much mentaly and physicaly that he just... broke. Gave in.

And in one of her chats/interviews, JK reminded us that Petter owned Harry a Wizard's debt, and it was not something to be taken lightly (see end of book three, I believe.. maybe four). She hinted that it would come into play in the next few books. Maybe he can redeem himself slighty?

Remember that even if he didn't want to be under Voldemort's rule, he was, and couldn't leave. Maybe it was just a bad choice? He wasn't as brave, or determined, as Snape. So, when Vodemort died from information he gave, even if might have liked being 'free', he knew there were still Death Eaters loose that would kill him in one glance.So he ran, Sirius came.... then at Hogwarts, Harry's third year, he was found, and threatened to be sent to Az. He was afraid, and got out when he could, then did what he thought would keep him safe-found Volemort and a way to get his body back for him.

they're always saying that neville was like peter pettigrew, and neville's in gryffindor, maybe peter was like neville when he was in school. peter was a weak wizard, and voldemort convinced him that power was better than good or evil, like he did to quirrell.

Instead, the idea I've always had is that a large part of the Sorting Hat's choice over where you go is decided by your own choice of where you want to go. And Wormtail probably wanted to be a Gryffindor.

I agree. If you think about it, he probably didn't consider himself bookish (so there goes Ravenclaw), he has enough survivial instincts to know that he would get eaten alive by the Slytherins, and I don't think he would want to be known as a Hufflepuff, when Gryffindor gets all the glory. The hat might have tried to talk him out of it, but I think in the end it just does the Regis Philbin thing and takes your final answer.

"Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor?"

Because deep down he's good. Weak, but good. He will prove his Gryffindor-hood when he betrays Voldemort (sacrificing himself most likely) and repays Harry's life debt.

they're always saying that neville was like peter pettigrew, and neville's in gryffindor, maybe peter was like neville when he was in school. peter was a weak wizard, and voldemort convinced him that power was better than good or evil, like he did to quirrell. Neville's bravery and courage are coming out more and more, though. Do we know that anything of this sort ever happened to Pettigrew?

- Witflick

look here, the hat didn't "listen", it was going to put him in griffindoor anyway.


Well, we have found the pessimist of the thread!

I think that peter was good in the beginning but went bad in the end like 7th year of hogwarts, and he met voldy.

All about Peter Pettigrew

Wormtail has been mentioned in many posts…and three threads are devoted to single questions about him. However, I couldn’t find an all-inclusive discussion about Peter Pettigrew, so I thought I’d start one.

Part of what follows is taken from HPFGU Fantastic Posts (http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/pettigrew.html)
Pettigrew, or rather Scabbers, shows up with Ron in chapter six of PS. Except for biting Goyle's finger in the same chapter, he spends most of the following two books sleeping, chewing on sheets and being pushed off chairs on which more significant characters want to sit. In PoA he gains a higher profile. Suffering from the ravages of age and the molestations of Hermione's cat Crookshanks, Scabbers disappears-apparently into Crookshank's jaws-only reappear in the form of Peter Pettigrew: erstwhile marauder, unregistered animagus, dead hero, live rat. At the climax of PoA, Harry convinces Sirius and Remus to spare Pettigrew's life. Shortly afterward, Pettigrew escapes. In GoF he resurfaces in the company of his master Voldemort. He murders Cedric, contributes his own right hand to Voldemort's rebirth and receives glistening, bionic replacement. A magical shining silver hand.

Why was Pettigrew made “Secret-Keeper” at the last minute? Was there reason to think he could keep a secret?
How did Pettigrew survive the initial explosion that destroyed the Potters’ house? What do we remember about that incident?

When he was at Hogwarts, he sort of just hung around the rest of the Marauders and for some reason they tolerated him. Did Pettigrew choose the name ‘Wormtail” or was that just a joke played on him by the rest of the gang? Do we know what House Pettigrew belonged to…or any of the Marauders for that matter? I’d assumed Griffendore, but I don’t know. If Pettigrew was in Griffindore, what are we to make of his betrayal? This leads us to questions about the Sorting Hat. Is the hat as reliable as we might think? Can it make mistakes?

Since Harry saved Pettigrew’s life at the Shrieking shack, what could this mean for the future? DD said:Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... and I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter."

"I don't want a connection with Pettigrew!" said Harry. "He betrayed my parents!"

"This is magic at its deepest, its most impenetrable, Harry. But trust me... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."

During Harry and Ron's inaugural fight with Draco, Scabbers bites Goyle's finger. Why? Does Pettigrew feel some loyalty to Harry..or Ron? Just how did the Weasleys acquire Scabbers? Some have speculated that this was Molly Weasley’s doing…leading to questions about her loyalties to the Order. Do we have any clues as to how Scabbers came to be a pet to the Weasley kids? Could it be that he made a good spy for Lucius Malfoy (who hates Arthur Weasley)? Why would Pettigrew choose the Weasleys? How did Pettigrew meet up with Percy Weasley and isn’t it ironic that Percy is on the outs with his family and Dumbledore?

Why was Ron Weasley permitted to bring a rat (Scabbers) as a pet to Hogwarts when the Hogwarts acceptance letter specifies that students may bring a "cat or a toad or an owl"? Was there a “special exception” made for him? Did someone at Hogwarts know who and what Scabbers was? Was Lucius Malfoy (and perhaps Molly Weasley) involved in this?

After he is discovered at the Shrieking Shack and escapes the kids, he transforms back into rat form and returns to Albania to Lord Voldemort. If he has been with Ron all this time, how in the world does he know where Voldemort is? While he talked to the rats and other animals he met along the way and discovered that there was some dark, non-corporeal being lurking in the forests of Albania, how did he know to head toward Albania anyway? He started from Scotland. How did he know which direction to take unless he’d been in contact with Death Eaters or Voldemort himself in the first place.

Just how close is Pettigrew to Lord Voldemort? He apparently has nothing but contempt for Pettigrew. He said "Your devotion is nothing more than cowardice. You would not be here if you had anywhere else to go." And yet Pettigrew sacrificed an arm to bring Voldemort back. Has this changed Voldemort’s mind? Has Pettigrew truly become loyal or is he fooling Voldemort? Can he fool Voldemort?

Why was Pettigrew made “Secret-Keeper” at the last minute? Was there reason to think he could keep a secret? Peter was chosen at the last moment by Sirius because he thought no one would think Peter was the secret keeper. He, Sirius on the other hand was James best friend of course he would be at the top of the list. Peter on the other hand wasnt very talented so Sirius thought Voldemort and his Death Eater would go after a powerful witch. Plus Peter told Sirius that he was going to go hide himself
How did Pettigrew survive the initial explosion that destroyed the Potters’ house? What do we remember about that incident? Peter wasnt at the house so he was able to live. Sirius encountered him in the streets where Peter hid his wand and blew up his finger or choped it off, killing 13 people in the process and went in the sewers with other rats leaving Sirius wondering what rat was Peter, laughing Peter actually outsmarted him. Okay my guess is the outsmarting part. No clue why he was laughing
Did Pettigrew choose the name ‘Wormtail” or was that just a joke played on him by the rest of the gang? The others choice their names i think so i guess Peter did too Do we know what House Pettigrew belonged to…or any of the Marauders for that matter? All of them were in the same house, same as Lily, and Harry If Pettigrew was in Griffindore, what are we to make of his betrayal? Wormtail was a cowardIs the hat as reliable as we might think? Can it make mistakes? At the time Peter was in school he was probably put in the right house he is brave to a degree but would rather have strong people to back him up. I'm sure the hat has been wrong. Every thing makes mistakes.

Since Harry saved Pettigrew’s life at the Shrieking shack, what could this mean for the future? Debt eye for an eye thing
During Harry and Ron's inaugural fight with Draco, Scabbers bites Goyle's finger. Why? Does Pettigrew feel some loyalty to Harry..or Ron? Goyle's father was a death eater i just assume that Goyle, Crabble and Malfoy abused Peter and made him feel awful in front of Lord Voldemort. Might have been a thing of theirs to tease Peter. None to harry at the time, maybe some to Ron after all Ron was protecting him or the Weasley family wasJust how did the Weasleys acquire Scabbers? Do we have any clues as to how Scabbers came to be a pet to the Weasley kids? Could it be that he made a good spy for Lucius Malfoy (who hates Arthur Weasley)? No clue only guesses about how Peter came to them. I dont think Molly was a spy or is a spy for the Death Eaters they killed her brothers. Malfoy thought Peter was dead, if he knew he was alive i'm guessing Lucius would have killed him. Peter gave Voldemort the idea that brought his downfall, Lucius felt power leaving his hands. Why would Pettigrew choose the Weasleys? How did Pettigrew meet up with Percy Weasley and isn’t it ironic that Percy is on the outs with his family and Dumbledore? Again no idea how he came to the Weasley, luck no one else would take him the Weasley are poor after all and what Pureblood family would have a rat for a pet. yes there are people who do like rats as pets but if you are the Malfoy then you would buy the best things in life, not some dirty rat. It is a little that Percy would be out with his family but i wasnt suripsed after all Ron said that Percy would sell their own mother or something along those lines joking of course but it could had been a hint

Why was Ron Weasley permitted to bring a rat (Scabbers) as a pet to Hogwarts when the Hogwarts acceptance letter specifies that students may bring a "cat or a toad or an owl"? Was there a “special exception” made for him? Did someone at Hogwarts know who and what Scabbers was? Was Lucius Malfoy (and perhaps Molly Weasley) involved in this? Because Dumbledore knew that the Weasly may not be able to afford a pet for ron so he might have let it go, they are respected in parts of the wizard commuinty, just dont have a lot of money with seven children. No one knew who Scabbers was until Lupin saw him on the map. Lucius would had killed him he betrayed Voldemort, Molly would have sent him to the prison he was a death eater and they killed her brothers

After he is discovered at the Shrieking Shack and escapes the kids, he transforms back into rat form and returns to Albania to Lord Voldemort. If he has been with Ron all this time, how in the world does he know where Voldemort is? Arthur says that rumor has it he, Voldemort is hiding in Albaina (sp) or someone did. While he talked to the rats and other animals he met along the way and discovered that there was some dark, non-corporeal being lurking in the forests of Albania, how did he know to head toward Albania anyway? Rumors that Voldemort was last seen there.

Just how close is Pettigrew to Lord Voldemort? Close enough for Voldemort to risk everything and find the Potters Has this changed Voldemort’s mind? Has Pettigrew truly become loyal or is he fooling Voldemort? Can he fool Voldemort? Voldemort lost everything when he followed the advise of Peter so in Voldemort mind Peter owned him his life, and much more. So i doubt him losing a hand changed his mind, Peter was loyal to him enough that he betrayed a close friend of his, he went where the power was the coward, i doubt that he can fool Voldemort. Voldemort said he can tell when someone is lying to him Dumbledore was probably the only person that did not trust Voldemort, I think Tom says that to Harry. Something along the lines of Dumbledore keeping a eye on him after Hagrid was expel

Why was Pettigrew made “Secret-Keeper” at the last minute? Was there reason to think he could keep a secret?
How did Pettigrew survive the initial explosion that destroyed the Potters’ house? What do we remember about that incident?

I think it was in PoA, but I'm not totally sure. Sirius says that he thought it would be a good trick to play on Voldemort. He thought that Lupin was the traitor and figured that Voldemort would come after him to try and get to the Potters, so how else would you fool him. You make the weak person the secret keeper. Sirius knew that Voldemort would come after him but, he didn't think that he would go after a weak little thing like Peter. About Peter surviving the initial explosion I doubt that he was even there. Voldemort would have gone to do that on his own.

Did Pettigrew choose the name ‘Wormtail” or was that just a joke played on him by the rest of the gang? Do we know what House Pettigrew belonged to…or any of the Marauders for that matter? I’d assumed Griffendore, but I don’t know.

The name wormtail probably came to him by his friends. If you think about it a rat's tail does look a bit like a worm. In an interview JKR says that all the marauders, and Lily also, were in Gryffindor.

Since Harry saved Pettigrew’s life at the Shrieking shack, what could this mean for the future?

That means that at some point during book 6 or 7 Wormtail will have to save Harry's life. It may not be from Voldemort, altough that is the most likely situation, but he will save him from something.

Do we have any clues as to how Scabbers came to be a pet to the Weasley kids? Could it be that he made a good spy for Lucius Malfoy (who hates Arthur Weasley)? Why would Pettigrew choose the Weasleys? How did Pettigrew meet up with Percy Weasley and isn’t it ironic that Percy is on the outs with his family and Dumbledore?

I think it was more of a Scabbers chose the Weasely kind of situation. In Poa Sirius mentions something about why Scabbers would choose to stay as a rat for 12 years and live with a wizard family. He chose that so if he heard from anyone that Voldemort was regaining power he could rejoin his forces.

After he is discovered at the Shrieking Shack and escapes the kids, he transforms back into rat form and returns to Albania to Lord Voldemort. If he has been with Ron all this time, how in the world does he know where Voldemort is? While he talked to the rats and other animals he met along the way and discovered that there was some dark, non-corporeal being lurking in the forests of Albania, how did he know to head toward Albania anyway? He started from Scotland. How did he know which direction to take unless he’d been in contact with Death Eaters or Voldemort himself in the first place.

While living with the Weasleys he probably heard people talking. It was rumoured that Voldemort was hidng there so he could have overheard some one saying that.

The name wormtail probably came to him by his friends. If you think about it a rat's tail does look a bit like a worm. In an interview JKR says that all the marauders, and Lily also, were in Gryffindor.Hmm...would you say that Pettigrew displayed the traits of a Griffindore? Is he courageous...or sly? Is he brave, or does he use his cunning? Is he honorable, or a backstabber? Why would he be sorted into Griffindore? :)

I think it was more of a Scabbers chose the Weasely kind of situation. In Poa Sirius mentions something about why Scabbers would choose to stay as a rat for 12 years and live with a wizard family. He chose that so if he heard from anyone that Voldemort was regaining power he could rejoin his forces.Here's my question then....'Why the Weasleys'? Of all the wizarding families to run to...why go to the Weasleys? Why not seek refuge with the Lestranges or Malfoys? Why not Crouch or Fudge? :huh:

While living with the Weasleys he probably heard people talking. It was rumoured that Voldemort was hidng there so he could have overheard some one saying that.Who would have that sort of information? Is there someone in the Weasleys that would have any idea where Voldemort might have been? Is there any connection to Percy having once been Scabbers' master and his turning his back on his family and Dumbledore?

:)

Hmm...would you say that Pettigrew displayed the traits of a Griffindore? Is he courageous...or sly? Is he brave, or does he use his cunning? Is he honorable, or a backstabber? Why would he be sorted into Griffindore? :)
He may have some Gryffindor traits but he just hasn't shown them yet, don't forget that at some point during the series he is going to have to go against Voldemort in order to save Harry's life. That would show some bravery.

Here's my question then....'Why the Weasleys'? Of all the wizarding families to run to...why go to the Weasleys? Why not seek refuge with the Lestranges or Malfoys? Why not Crouch or Fudge? :huh:
Well he wouldn't want to go to anyone who was a Voldmort supporter because what if something happened and he had to turn back into Peter, they all thought that he was dead and if he wasn't dead than they would probably kill him because they also thought that he gave Voldemort the wrong information about the Potters in order to destroy him. That and Crouch or Fudge probably wouldn't take care of him like a poorer family would. A poorer family probably wouldn't be able to afford to get thier kid a really good pet so they would settle for a rat, and the kid would take good care of thier pet.


Who would have that sort of information? Is there someone in the Weasleys that would have any idea where Voldemort might have been? Is there any connection to Percy having once been Scabbers' master and his turning his back on his family and Dumbledore?
I'm sure that someone throughout the Ministry knew where it was that Voldemort was supposedly hiding and Arthur could have overheard it from them. Even though he doesn't work in the most respected of departments he is still the head of that department.

Who would have that sort of information? Is there someone in the Weasleys that would have any idea where Voldemort might have been? Is there any connection to Percy having once been Scabbers' master and his turning his back on his family and Dumbledore?
:)

I'm pretty sure that at the end of CoS, Dumbledore asks Harry how Voldemort managed to possess Ginny when his latest sources tell that he is hiding in the forest of Albania. I don't have my book at the moment, but I think that Ron, Harry, Molly, Arthur, and Ginny were all there for this conversation. (and if the rest of them weren't, Harry at least was and he would have shared the information with Ron) Scabbers could easily have overheard Harry and Ron talking about this information after the fact.

As for why he was sorted into Gryffindor, I'd like to believe he has Gryffindor qualities that we haven't seen yet. But we do know that the Sorting hat will put you in a certain house if you ask it to. (with the example of Harry asking to be in Gryffindor) Maybe Peter saw that the "cool kids" were getting sorted to Gryffindor and asked to be put there too...

Here are a few of the many threads we have on Peter.
In defense of Peter Pettigrew (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=14317)
Where’s Peter “Wormtail” Pettigrew? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11254)
Why were James, Remus and Sirius friends with Peter? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24351)
Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24298)
The silver hand aka Will Pettigrew kill Lupin? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=8261)
Will Wormtail live to see the end? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=26660)
Remember Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12142)
Will Harry accept Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20961)
Could the Prophecy be for three people including, Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24850)]

very interesting...

Here are a few of the many threads we have on Peter.
In defense of Peter Pettigrew (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=14317)
Where’s Peter “Wormtail” Pettigrew? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11254)
Why were James, Remus and Sirius friends with Peter? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24351)
Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24298)
The silver hand aka Will Pettigrew kill Lupin? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=8261)
Will Wormtail live to see the end? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=26660)
Remember Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12142)
Will Harry accept Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20961)
Could the Prophecy be for three people including, Wormtail? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24850)]


Good heavens! With this one, it's ten threads on Pettigrew. Shouldn't they be merged or collected to make an all inclusive thread?

When he was at Hogwarts, he sort of just hung around the rest of the Marauders and for some reason they tolerated him

Everything else questioned seems to have been discussed except this...I was just going to point out that nearly everyone knows someone lke this (well in school anyway) a person who is part of their "group" but no-one really knows why they are there. They are not particulary exciting or talkative, but you accept them on the basis they are nice and don't really question naything. I guess in some ways they are there to flater your ego. take Pettigrew for example in the pensieve scene in OotP.

He first of all was discussing the exam paper and that to some extent (well from what I gathered) he found it difficult, while the rest of them whizzed through it. Then when James was playing with the Snitch how Pettirgrew was reacting to James showing off his reflexes. This would also have massaged James ego. Then when Sirius asked him to stop he did. So in effect Wormtail was just someone they accepted, as he didn't cause any problems as such and didn't really bother them, but he was there to reassure them that they were better than everyone else.

Oh and I don't mean to come across as a james/Siruis hater, and they probably wouldn't have see it like this, but as we have been told they were a bit arrogant ;)

Actually, we're trying to get away from all-inclusive threads. I think I'll merge this with "Why was Pettigrew in Gryffindor?"

Maybe he has a different type of bravery that none of us are used to. Then again, none of us excpected Neville to go into Gryffindor but he did.

1.Are we accualy SURE he was in Griffindor?

2.If he was, here's my theorie about it then :

Pettigrew was on the Hogwarts express for the 1st time. He had no friends or anything jet, so finally he finds a seat, witch the other Marauders to be. He kinda makes contact with them. Then they arive at Hogwarts, and the seremonie takes place. He see's how Sirius and Remus go to Griffindor and becose their the only people he knows he wants to stick with them. So he want's to be in Griffindor as well. Ofcourse the sorting hat sees hijm for the Slytherin he really is, but, like Harry, Peter begs him, and the sorting hat puts him in Griffindor with a "Suit yourself then...".

Ok, now I've read some other reactions :p I still think he is a wimp, he only cut his hand of becose he would be killed other wise.

Here is the article where Rowling states that the mauraders were all in Gryffindor: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/JKRWorldBookDay2004.html

I've always assumed Peter ended up a Gryffindor almost by default. He wasn't clever enough for Ravenclaw and loyalty *ahem* :huh: and a desire to work hard don't seen to be traits of his either so that's Hufflepuff out. And despite what people say, I don't see him as especially cunning or ambitious as a Slytherin would be, not to mention we don't know whether or not he is pureblood as most Slytherins seem to be (and yes, I know Voldemort and all, but being heir of Slytherin may have tipped the balance there a little...;)) .

So where does that leave but Gryffindor? As long as he has just the potential for bravery, I don't see where else the hat could have put him. I see him as someone who had the chance to be a true Gryffindor, perhaps even was in his school days, but squandered it later through bad choices. It's possible (and this is not James/Sirius bashing, just an observation about Peter's character) that he may have made a better Gryffindor if he had not been friends with James and Sirius, two wizards who far outstripped him talentwise and maliciously or just in fun, let him know it in the kind of teasing we saw in the Pensieve scene. Unable to compete and with no reason to, knowing he would be protected by his friends, Peter may have stopped trying to better himself and settled into a comfortable subservience instead. And suddenly with school over, his friends scattered and his immediate protection gone, Peter lost his comfort zone and became vulnerable to Voldemort, simply because he was used to and felt he needed to be protected, because he had never taken the trouble to find his own courage and learn to be any other way. :huh:

That's how I've always seen it anyway. :)

He's like Neville, at first sight a nervous wreck, but if you know him, you know he could do a thing or two with a wand. When there's no hope for him, he's scared, but he can be very brave and powerful for sooome people *cough* Voldy *cough* :D

Bravery is a peculiar thing to measure. A brave person isn't somebody who is never frightened. The weirdest thing is that it can leave an otherwise courageous person just when they need it the most.

Perhaps he once was brave, or will be at some point yet to come. Perhaps he's brave at the wrong times and for the wrong reasons.

Perhaps we'll find out in one of the next two books.

Whatever the reason, the Sorting Hat is a very mysterious hat.

I completely agree with Pallas. Isn't the point that the hat sorts you into the house that you have the MOST qualities of? If on a scale of 1 to 10 you are a 1 on everything except for the fact that you are a 1.5 on one thing then what you have the most of is the 1.5 thing. That doesn't mean that you are actually GOOD at that thing. It just means that you have more of it than of anything else. Did that make sense?

I can't imagine anybody getting bunged into a house just because they didn't belong in any of the others. There are extreme cases and there are weaker cases, but to belong in Gryffindor he must have some bravery in him (which spawned the thread, since we haven't seen any bravery in him at all). I think almost everybody has some of all the traits in them but one thing has to stand out the most, even if it's not obvious. It doesn't mean that a lion heart beats in there somewhere, but it does mean that, for all the vagueness of the houses, the Sorting Hat would have put him in Gryffindor for a reason.

Actually... maybe you don't need to be brave at all. The Sorting Hat might generalise a bit (you try expressing all the technicalities through song :D). Ravenclaw, for instance, isn't merely for the intelligent, it's for those who place a value on knowledge and learning that generally comes before the value of the other things the four houses represent. Maybe Peter respects and values bravery in others, even though he has none himself. Maybe he was a Gryffindor boy because that's what he wanted to be.

Peter does respect and value bravery in others; look at who he chose to be friends with. Of course, I suppose he didn't have much choice since Gryffindor is full of "courageous" people, but it does seem to be more apparent in some than others (Lavendar and Parvati, anyone?).

I think he was to much of a follower to be in Slytherin, he just tagged along, never came up with any suggestions. He was too absentminded for Ravenclaw, and he wouldn't have fit in with the Hufflepuffs so Gryffindor was probably a scape goat kind-of choice.

Yes, we know that from things that have been said by the people who were completely taken in by him. That, alone, suggests there's a whole lot more to Peter than meets the eye. He strikes me as someone the other characters have consistently underestimated, with disastrous consequences, and I have a feeling Voldemort is gearing up to make exactly the same mistake.
Lady deMimsy, that's the best explanation of Peter Pettigrew I've ever seen.

I'd like to say I think Pettigrew will die a tragic death and somehow help Harry in the end, but... ack, Lady deMimsy, I hope you're right about Peter.

I agree. That is a great explanation, better than anything I could ever come up with. The only reason I'm saying this now is sometimes, I don't read the whole thread, only bits of it. Brilliant!

Asking why Peter was sorted into Gryffindor is a bit like asking why Hermione was sorted into Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw. Sure, she is the 'brightest witch of her age' but she has shown time and time again her courage and bravery, as well. More than just one aspect is considered when being sorted.

I definately agree with Lady deMimsy, I believe we under estimate Peter. James, Remus and Sirius are not the type to trust another easily, and yet they felt they could trust Peter. I mean, how do we choose our own friends? Perhaps it's because we see a bit of ourselves in them, or perhaps a little bit of something we wish we could be.

I think it's important to remember that bravery is not only a quality possessed by good, but also by evil as well.

Maybe it depends on the group of friends you'll end up in your school days too. Look at Neville for example.

Actually, we're trying to get away from all-inclusive threads. I think I'll merge this with "Why was Pettigrew in Gryffindor?"*Sigh* So that is why I had trouble finding this thread. I was getting email notifications of responses to this thread but since it was moved, they were dead links.

Actually Whiz is right. I felt that Peter Pettigrew deserved an all-inclusive thread mainly because it doesnt make good sense to have to have to search through some 7 or 8 threads to discuss this character. Severus Snape and Sirius Black are other good examples. In nearly every case, these and other threads suffer from severe "thread drift" and moderators are noticeably absent. An all inclusive thread on a character would alleviate this problem.

Maybe Peter respects and values bravery in others, even though he has none himself. Maybe he was a Gryffindor boy because that's what he wanted to be.I've been trying to come up with a theory as to why Pettigrew was in Gryffindor for about a week, and that's the best answer I've heard of yet.
It does seem interesting to me though that it clashes with the statement "There's not a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." (Ron?) Whether the wizarding world thought the bad one was Sirius or Pettigrew, they're off.

On second thought, do we know for a fact that Peter was in Gryffindor? He might have just been a Slytherin who was slightly better at hiding the evilness than others...

I have a feeling that if he were in Gryffindor he must have some inner bravery. Perhaps we will see it when Dumbledore's statement "There may be a time when you are grateful that you spared Pettigrew's life tonight" comes to pass.

well ron is a bit of a whimp but shows courge when he has to, mabey it was the same thing.

Peter, as a child, was probably not evil. In fact, I expect he was often the one being bullied. Like Neville, he was the underdog, the forgetful, blustering kid who's always getting picked on. At eleven, he goes to Hogwarts and somehow ( out of pity? ) makes friend with powerful, popular people, becoming semi-popular by association. But even his friends tease him, as we saw in "Snape's Worst Memory". I got the impression that Peter was just the little henchman.

So, how does this relate to his Sorting? Despite his lack of talent ( notice I say talent, not cunningness ), in the beginning Peter, like everyone else, had the potential to be good and even brave. "It is our choices that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities." The Sorting Hat recognized that, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, as I expect it did for Neville, hoping that Griffindor's influence would help him thrive and bring out the best in him. Peter wasn't born evil - no one is - and the choices he made later in life would not have effected who he was during his Sorting.

And yes, I agree that deep, deep down, he still has some good. The real question is whether it will surface.

He wasn't clever enough for Ravenclaw

Well, he apparantly was clever enough to act as a double agent for a year, trick Sirius ( who even admitted that "little Peter got the best of me." ) and the rest of the wizarding world for another twelve, ressurect Voldemort, and fool Bertha Jorkins. The fatal mistake is underestimating Peter. Sirius and the Potters did, and look where it got them. He may lack magical ability, but certainly not cleverness, not when he wants something bad enough.

I think that at this stage, it's too early to really know Pettigrew's true colors. I think that he was probably put in Gryffindor for a reason and that we'll find out that reason in book 6 or 7. I think the fact that Dumbledore says that Harry may be happy that he saved Pettigrew's life is definitely a sign of things to come. At some point in the next two books, I think that Peter will do something to save Harry's life, give him some crucial piece of information that he needs, or something along those lines.

I don't buy the idea that the Sorting Hat puts people where they want to be. I don't think that the Sorting Hat put Harry in Gryffindor just because he wanted to be in Gryffindor, because he never said he wanted to be in Gryffindor, he just said that he did not want to be in slytherin. I think the main reason behind the Sorting Hat putting him in Gryffindor was because he rejected Slytherin and what it stands for. At that stage, Harry didn't know all that much about Hogwarts and the wizarding world, but he did know that he didn't want to be associated with the attitudes of the Slytherins.

Maybe being sorted into a house is more about potential than reality. Maybe Peter showed potential for great courage, but chose cowardice. Which is not to say he can't make a different choice later in books six or seven. This theory would support JKR's refernces to the importance of choices in the books.

Bravery doesn't always get directed toward the protagonist or the good guys. In my opinion it would take a lot of bravery to join Voldemort. Maybe not the right kind of bravery, the valliant, admirable bravery, but as for me, I'd be pretty dang scared to even walk up to Voldemort much less join him. I would never join him, but I'd be terrified being part of his service. I mean, we've all seen plenty of movies to know the evil guy can snap like a twig at any moment and kill some of his most loyal cronies. Not to mention being his right hand man. They're the people who get anger taken out on them first and foremost.

I think we also need to find out more about the Marauders, which I think we will in the upcoming books. While Pettigrew may have been brave, he also seemed really insecure. I can't remember where it was in canon but he sort of followed the other three around instead of really being in the gang. Maybe he sought out the power of Lord Voldemort because he was in awe of it...

I think we also need to find out more about the Marauders, which I think we will in the upcoming books. While Pettigrew may have been brave, he also seemed really insecure. I can't remember where it was in canon but he sort of followed the other three around instead of really being in the gang. Maybe he sought out the power of Lord Voldemort because he was in awe of it...There was some line in PoA, I think, during the scene where Harry, Ron, and Hermione are listening to the professor, Fudge, and Rosmerta talk.
I think there's probably a good deal of validity to that theory. He seems to me like the kind of person who tries to ally himself with whomever is most powerful. In school, that was James and Sirius (Lupin being the quiet one that no one really noticed quite as much, ergo had less 'power') and when LV came to power it became him. The only reason he wouldn't have been able to ally himself with Dumbledore when the first signs of LV's return was the whole deal with everyone thinking he was dead, then his sudden reappearance, etc. If he had managed to keep his double agent deal a secret and not pretended to be dead, I bet he would have shifted his allegiances back to Dumbledore and the OotP as soon as they re-formed.

...did that make any sense at all? :huh: It's still early.

He wasn't smart-so not in ravenclaw. Not very sly and cunning- not in slytherin. Not very brave- why in Gryfindor? I think he should he in hufflepuff. But then again, he was brave enough to join Voldemort...

I think bravery comes in many different forms. There's no doubt that when he turned to Voldemort and gave up James and Lilly he was behaving like a coward...but everyone has faults (don't get me wrong, I hate Wormtail almost as much as Voldemort) but maby the hat saw his bravery in a dirrerent form to the obvious-maby he was brave in facing up to problems or in coping with things- and put him in Gryffindor.

The houses arn't split up into cowards and Gryffindors and likewise not all Gryffindors have their priorities right and behave like saints.

The theme of choices re-surfaces... :eyebrows:

He wasn't smart-so not in ravenclaw. Not very sly and cunning- not in slytherin. Not very brave- why in Gryfindor? I think he should he in hufflepuff. But then again, he was brave enough to join Voldemort...

Hufflepuff? The house for loyal, hardworking people!?! Yes, it might be argued that Peter is brave, but there's NO WAY to say he's loyal. Come on, he sold two of his best friends to Voldemort, and sent another to Azkaban for twelve years! You could say he'd loyal to the dark side, but even then it would not be true. He's only with Voldemort out of cowardice, not true devotion to "the cause". Even LV himself, who knows Legilmency, said that.

And Peter's not very hardworking either. As Scabbers, he was described as dull and lazy, and sepnt all his time sleeping.

As for being cunning and clever . . . see my earlier post . . .

Do we definately know that wormtail was a Gryffindor? I always thought he was a Slytherin. Didnt Hagrid say "there wasnt a witch or wizard who went bad who wasnt in Slytherin". Wormtail definately went bad, so he should be a slytherin. That kind of made me think James, Sirius and Lupin were in Slytherin too,because it would be strange for the four of them to be such good friends if they were in different houses. I think JK Rowling said James was in Gryffindor though.

Well peter did go to find voldemort and cut off his hand in the end......but he may have a bigger part to play in the next books

Do we definately know that wormtail was a Gryffindor? I always thought he was a Slytherin. Didnt Hagrid say "there wasnt a witch or wizard who went bad who wasnt in Slytherin". Wormtail definately went bad, so he should be a slytherin. That kind of made me think James, Sirius and Lupin were in Slytherin too,because it would be strange for the four of them to be such good friends if they were in different houses. I think JK Rowling said James was in Gryffindor though.

When Hagrid said that about Wormtail,he thought he was murdered by evil Sirius Black.The Truth wasn't revealed until 2 books later.Hagrid would probably say something different now.
I don't think Slytherins and Gryffindors are that different.They have very similar traits they just make different decisions.It's possible that Harry isnt the only student who would do well in either house.

You would of thought the same about why Neville was in Gryffindor, because in Philosopher Stone, it wasn't that brave of him to stand up to his friends, and it wasn't until the Order of the Phoenix that we realised that Neville is right to be in Gryffindor. We are told in the book that it is our choices far more than our abilities which shows who we truly are, Peter's choice was probably to go into Gryffindor, he always seems to want to be part of a popular and powerful crowd.

You're forgetting that Wormtail did both out of cowardice.

Actually, courage is standing up for your friends when the going gets tough. Betraying your friends is cowardice.

According to Dumbledore, our desires are what make us what we are. And the hat definitely listens. Not only did he listen to Harry at the sorting, he had a whole conversation with him in Dumbledore's office. This is no stupid hat.

i definately agree with oyuo pegasus, everything u say is wat i was about to write myself before i read urs

im sure that hagrid was wrong wen he sed there wasnt a witch or wizard who went bad that wasnt in slytherin because first of all we knew petigrew was a gryf. and also imagine that hogwarts is the only school that has a dark wizrd coming out of it....we kno durmstrang produces a lot of dark wizards too

I think character runs deep. It’s who you are and what you are made of. It defines you completely and I believe that if Pettigrew is a coward now, then he probably was a sniveling little coward as a youth. As of now I think he is the sort of person who is attracted to power and, being incapable of achieving it himself, he gravitates toward those who have power. Most of us know someone like this or knew someone like this in school. Pettigrew fawned over James Potter in school because Potter was the big man on campus. Potter was popular, had a strong personality and for some reason (probably pity) tolerated Pettigrew’s presence. He also gravitated to Voldemort because (I believe) he sees the sort of power that Voldemort wields. He sticks with Voldemort because he, a sniveling little coward, is afraid to leave or to stand up against the Dark Lord. There may come a day, however, when Pettigrew has enough and decides to stand up to Voldemort. This may be a defining moment in his life and may show something about his character that previously only the Sorting Hat knew. That Pettigrew may have some honor and bravery deep down inside him.

You would of thought the same about why Neville was in Gryffindor, because in Philosopher Stone, it wasn't that brave of him to stand up to his friends, and it wasn't until the Order of the Phoenix that we realised that Neville is right to be in Gryffindor. We are told in the book that it is our choices far more than our abilities which shows who we truly are, Peter's choice was probably to go into Gryffindor, he always seems to want to be part of a popular and powerful crowd.Hi Michaela! Neville is a curious character and I think is one of the keys to this entire mystery. Personally I (silently) cheered at the end of PS when Dumbledore gave house points to Griffindor because of Neville’s bravery. I know from experience that it is very difficult to stand up to one’s friends. Sure, when I was in school we were always joking around and gently criticizing our friends. That was just part of growing up. But on the tough issues, if one of our friends were doing something that might be wrong, then yes…it was a tough decision to stand up to them and tell them they were wrong. We don’t want to lose a good friendship and we also don’t want to face ridicule. Neville (IMO) stood up to Harry, Ron and Hermione….not because he wanted to, but because it was the right thing to do. I felt that it was a brave thing to do and indicates that he is in the right house after all. :)
im sure that hagrid was wrong wen he sed there wasnt a witch or wizard who went bad that wasnt in slytherin because first of all we knew petigrew was a gryf. and also imagine that hogwarts is the only school that has a dark wizrd coming out of it....we kno durmstrang produces a lot of dark wizards tooI think Hagrid was referring to Hogwarts at the time though. But yeah, he he is technically wrong. Also, there is a first time for everything and it is possible that a former Griffindor has turned evil as well. :)

We all know that Neville resembles Wormtail (book 3).... and also his mother (book 5).... What if Wormtail is related to her.....Assuming that she was also in Gryffindor(Neville being one), then Wormtail can be a Gryffindor too...

I can't say I've ever thought Peter would have been in Gryfffindor, so that's a new one to me, does JKR say anywhere which houses the Marauder's were in? I always though that Peter and Sirius were in Slytherin and James and Remus were in Gryffindor.

I can't say I've ever thought Peter would have been in Gryfffindor, so that's a new one to me, does JKR say anywhere which houses the Marauder's were in? I always though that Peter and Sirius were in Slytherin and James and Remus were in Gryffindor.

In the World Book Day chat, JKR says all four Marauders were in Gryffindor.

Why would Sirius be in Slytherin? :huh: He was the good one in the family, and it would be hard for him and James to have been best frie if they were in different houses, especially rival houses like Slytherin and Gryffindor.

It would be hard for any of the Marauaders to have been close friends if they weren't in the same house.

Ah ok I missed that chat, sorry.

I thought Sirius was in Slytherin becuase of the quote "There's never been a wizard that's gone bad that wasn't in Slytherin", which was in PS before they knew Sirius was innocent.

I always thought they met each other on Hogwarts Express, or at least James met Sirius and they became friends like Harry and Ron did but were sorted into their seperate houses where James became friends with Remus and Sirius with Peter and they just grew into the Marauder's from there. But since they were all in Gryffindor, I'm obviously wrong.

I thought Sirius was in Slytherin becuase of the quote "There's never been a wizard that's gone bad that wasn't in Slytherin", which was in PS before they knew Sirius was innocent.

looking back maybe it was a clue by JKR telling us that Sirius was innocent;). As for the question I have no idea why Pettigrew was placed in Gryffindor, because he certainly wasnt brave as has been mentioned many times when we were introduced to him. I would have seen him as a Hufflepuff if anything

Ah ok I missed that chat, sorry.

I thought Sirius was in Slytherin becuase of the quote "There's never been a wizard that's gone bad that wasn't in Slytherin", which was in PS before they knew Sirius was innocent.

Ok, glad I could help. :)

About the quote . . . Hagrid was exaggerating. People can't be judged solely by the house ( If they could be, this thread wouldn't exist ). They can change, for the better or worse, and are generelly too many layered to be sorted into one catagory without having other qualities. In other words, not all Slytherins are evil, and not all Gryffindors are purely good.

I agree with all the people who said that PP didn´t belong in any house. Hufflpuff being the last - loyalty, fair play??
Come on, he is the opposit of a Hufflpuff.
I quess he wanted to be brave with 11, or he was braver than he was ambitious.
Do you think an ambitous wizard would want to live as a rat for 12 years???
A brave man wouldn´t do that either.
Peter is a coward and a piece of ... erm - sorry

He didn´t go to V. V came to him. Everything he did, he did to save his own butt. He sold the Potter family, including a on year old Baby, to V. (it wasn´t his fault that Harry survived) He killed 12 innocent bystanders, ruined the life and reputation of Sirius Black. He killed Cedrik Diggory, didn´t he. (you ... rat)And it wasn´t his fault that Harry survived this time either. All to save his worthless life.

I think he will maybe sacrifice himself in the end but I wouldn´t call it redemption. He should have died 14 years ago, as Sirius said.

Peter does respect and value bravery in others; look at who he chose to be friends with. Of course, I suppose he didn't have much choice since Gryffindor is full of "courageous" people, but it does seem to be more apparent in some than others (Lavendar and Parvati, anyone?).
Why wouldn´t Parvati and Lavendar be brave? You are making that up. I remember at least Lavendar fought against the blast-endet- skrewts (and got hurt like everyone)when most of the class were in Hagrids hut. And she isn´t even a friend of Hagrids.

I agree with all the people who said that PP didn´t belong in any house. Hufflpuff being the last - loyalty, fair play??
Come on, he is the opposit of a Hufflpuff. But at the same time, HH said that she'd "Take the rest, and teach them all the same." Makes Hufflepuff a kind of catch-all for those who aren't sly and cunning, aren't especially brave, and aren't any more intelligent than normal.

Wormtail was able to become an animagus because his friends helped him. They needed him because he was the only one small enough to step on the "button" and open the tree. We know from things that have been said that he wasn't as good of a student as the others, and he kind of followed them around like a puppy dog. The man was jealous, bitter, and an underling--which makes him easy prey for the dark side. I think you're giving him far too much credit.

:tu: My thoughts exactly in PoA book we hear from McGonagal and Rosmerta that Peter always hung around them. I think that the others felt bad for him because he was a little bit ignored probably, and so they became his friends, but also I think something had to happen for Peter to betray them, or maybe Voldemort found out he was secret keeper for Lily and James and Voldemort used the imperious curse on him to make him do things he wouldn't have done. Or he could just be looking out for himself and joining the stronger side for protection and strength, and he thinks Voldemort can help him acheive that. Like McGonagal said a little stump of a boy.

As for why he was in Gryffindor the hat placed him there for a reason we already know the hat is never wrong just ask the hat. But probably becuase there must be something in Peter that has the bravery that Gryffindor looks for in its residents. Personally I think if you can talk to and serve Voldemort there must be some sort of bravery in that. But that's my guess if it were me deciding the fate of that rat I would have killed him I wouldn't have shown mercy like Harry did.

You would of thought the same about why Neville was in Gryffindor, because in Philosopher Stone, it wasn't that brave of him to stand up to his friends, and it wasn't until the Order of the Phoenix that we realised that Neville is right to be in Gryffindor. We are told in the book that it is our choices far more than our abilities which shows who we truly are, Peter's choice was probably to go into Gryffindor, he always seems to want to be part of a popular and powerful crowd.

I have to aggree here. The hat sorts people into the houses because of the choices they make but also the potential they have. You would not have thought it about Neville but he has proven to show bravery and perhaps Peter had the potential to do the same but choice to hide behind those he thinks will protect him.

i think he was in Gryffindor because thats th house that brought out the best wizard possible at the end. Think, if he had been in another house he wouldn have had James or Sirius the two best students in the school to lookafter him. Maybe if he had been in a different house he may have been bullied or something and would have become an even worse wizard than he is!!

He was brave joining the Order and going back to Voldemort, I don't think that's brave though, but that's probably one of the signs of him being brave. I think he's a coward and a loser, but still; the Sorting Hat has never been wrong and maybe people change, like Peter who turned to the evil side?

I've wondered this too. It seems that everything that he's done was motivated by greed and being a coward. He's not just or loyal or anything that Gryffindor prized, but how do we know that he was in fact in Gryffindor? The question that Rowling answered was whether Lupin, Black, Potter, and Lupin were in Gryffindor and she said yes, so perhaps he wasn't actually in Gryffindor.

but still; the Sorting Hat has never been wrong
Who or what on earth told you that? Of course it has been wrong!

maybe pettigrew wasn't a really powerful wizard, he wasn't a hard worker, we know he was stupid, and maybe he wasn't cunning, so what he had the most of when he was sorted was courage, but being in class with the best students in his year he lost confidence because maybe they didn't help him or something, and then he turned into a coward

Of course it has been wrong!

Well, it depends on how you look at it. The SH makes the best decision it can when these kids are 10 and 11 years old. Perhaps Wormtail showed great Gryffindor potential at 10, and he took some wrong turns as he grew up.

Shauna

Who or what on earth told you that? Of course it has been wrong!It has? :huh:

Well, Pettigrew is one of the miserablest cowards I have ever read of. There is no way that he is braver than even half of the Slytheryn/Ravenclaw/Hufflepuffs in his year. I agree that he might have showed potential at ten. Thats the problem with the whole sorting thing. People change and 10/11 is far to young to decide where a persons values lie. Everybody believe in their parents values at that age.
Do you think old Godrik Gryffindor would be proud of Peter.

JK never said the hat is always right, she said it is sincere (=doesn´t know better).

I think people may give Peter too little credit for courage. While the way in which he came to be a traitor didn't show much courage and nor have his actions since he was revealed to be scabbers, his traitorous actions must have taken a fair degree of bravery. While it's not directly comparable, Snape's acting the spy was "at great personal risk", and nobody disputes that Snape had to be brave to do that. Pettigrew was also a spy at personal risk. While if Dumbledore had discovered he was a spy he wouldn't have killed him (unlike Snape with Voldemort), I definitely wouldn't rule out his old friends (particularly Sirius) killing him for his betrayal. For the entire period he was a spy, he took a risk for his new master with at best a life sentence in Azkaban and at worst death if he was caught. Wormtail the spy had to have some bravery, even if it was caused by fear. I think in part that's the reason he became a spy - he was too cowardly to die or act as a double agent, but he was just brave enough to take the risk of betraying his friends. If he didn't have that courage, he would have been useless to Voldemort.

I suppose, in the end Pettigrew wasn't smart enough for Ravenclaw, loyal enough for Hufflepuff or cunning and ambitious enough for Slytherin, while he had just enough courage to make him a Gryffindor and a traitor.

I think Peter is like a Neville type but evil :evil:

Simple answer, he may have been brave in his own ways. For example, he was brave to make friends with people who'd not have wanted anything to do with him, he had the courage to walk up and talk to them. Sure, he was a suck up, but he was never afraid to do anything that would cause him good. He actually braved his way up to Voldemort and betrayed his best friends. Sure, this is considered treachery, but not bad enough to put him in slytherin because HE himself was never power hungry, he just wanted powerful people around him so that he'd be protected. In a way, he always treated himself as a looser, but had the courage to do things to help himself. Another example of this was to go into hiding for 12 years as a rat!

You're forgetting that Wormtail did both out of cowardice.

Actually, courage is standing up for your friends when the going gets tough. Betraying your friends is cowardice.

According to Dumbledore, our desires are what make us what we are. And the hat definitely listens. Not only did he listen to Harry at the sorting, he had a whole conversation with him in Dumbledore's office. This is no stupid hat.
I definetly agree with you, kid. And I was kinda wondering why he was put in Gryfindor, too.

So, Lanc and Sirius Black, betraying his friends was brave, not betraying his friends would have been brave, becoming a spy was brave, dying would have been brave, becoming a double agent would have been brave....
Is there anything the rat could have done that wouldn´t show his bravery?
= What were the other options?

I think it's kind of simple why he is in Gryffindor. Of course they're wouldn't be a BRAVE person betray the Marauder's. It wouldn't make sense for the Marauder's to have three people from Gryffindor and one from one of the other houses would it? It's like I say often in real life, 'Why did he have to do that? It was stupid.' There is a reason for everything, I believe God has a purpose for everyone and everything that happens has hidden meanings that we have to find out. If someone gets into a car crash for no good reason, they were a good person, and were kind, pleasant, had alot of friends, so why did they die in the crash? Let's say they died because they were just temporarily taking off the seatbelt to get something in the back seat. God wants to show us that everyone can make mistakes, it wasn't neccisarily a mistake to take the seat belt off, just happened. Sometimes the only way to show gratitude for someone is to take them away. Like the saying, 'You don't appreciate what I do until I don't do it.' Before I ramble more than I have already let me get to the connection. JKR, in this instance is playing the role of God, she writes the books she knows all, and all reasoning. Pettigrew, I think, was placed in Gryffindor for two reasons, one, he HAD to be, otherwise a normal brave Gryffindor wouldn't be there to betray the other three, two, JKR wants to show that not all Gryffindor's may be loyal or brave. There can be exceptions to every rule. JKR is God in this sense and who cares, she can do whatever she wants, it wouldn't be the same if he wasn't in Gryffindor.

well if you+re referring to it then it seems that peter was like judas among the apostols. he just had to be the one to mess everything up so that the "greater plan" could be put into action.

Simple answer, he may have been brave in his own ways.Too bad his way was the sniveling little wussy-cowardly way. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

(Sorry...just kidding.)

:p

Yes, as brave as everyone thinks he was, Pettigrew admitted he was scared in the 3rd book. Perhaps he was acting out of fear.

Seriously Peter Pettigrew is a worshipper of sorts. He worshipped James Potter like some people worship and idolize celebrities. Now he worships Voldemort. He's co-dependant and really really screwed up in the head. He'll even stick with those who harm him (though he might stab em in the back later). I suspect he will eventually betray Voldemort because of how he's been treated and I wonder if maybe he did the same to James Potter for similar reasons.

I can find no real reason he would have been sorted into Griffindor...not even as a 10 year old. He's a worshipper of those stronger than himself now and likely was back then. He naturally gravitated to the strongest group he could find on campus and hung around idolizing the big man on campus.

Now he thinks the big man on campus is Voldemort. But if I were Voldemort I sure wouldnt turn my back on Pettigrew. He'll probably turn on him just like he turned on James Potter.

Also, I suspect that Harry is probably the only person to have shown some slight mercy and compassion on Pettigrew. I doubt James Potter ever did. I doubt any of the maurauders did and I'm pretty sure voldemort never has.

This compassion could be significant later. If Pettigrew ever survives his association with Voldemort, Harry might have a co-dependant middle aged wuss shadowing his every movement.

Scary thought.

I've always wondered why Pettigrew was in Gryffindor as well. He is a horrid little character (and utterly repulsive in the movie) and has acted as a coward throughout most of the movie. He only finds Voldemort out of desparation and would say or do anything to save himself. Pettigrew is in debt to Harry and maybe by the 6th or 7th book he will redeem himself and show his true house colors.
I do feel it is important to note that I doubt he is such a poor wizard as everyone who knew him as a boy says. His best friends were the smartest wizards in their year he is obviously no comparison to them, but most students probably weren't either. Though the Gryffindor house is noted for its bravery, but also for 'daring and nerve'. Well these characteristics are usually connected to courage, but in Pettigrew's case perhaps not. He has both the daring and the nerve to cut off his hand and also to seek out Voldemort in book 4. Though he may do these things for cowardly reasons he does do them of his own accord.

We wonder why Pettigrew was placed in Gryffindor just like at one time I'm sure most of us wondered what Neville was doing in Gryffindor. I know JKR has a reason for nearly everything she writes so I'm sure it wasn't a mistake that Peter was sorted into Gryffindor. He is brave and does have some courage... It's just not in the same sense that most of us typically think of.

So, Lanc and Sirius Black, betraying his friends was brave, not betraying his friends would have been brave, becoming a spy was brave, dying would have been brave, becoming a double agent would have been brave....
Is there anything the rat could have done that wouldn´t show his bravery?
= What were the other options?

Does anyone dispute that Snape turning spy required courage? I doubt it. Why is Pettigrew doing so different (aside from spying on the good guys)? I admit they aren't exactly the same, but the two spies can certainly be compared. For both of them, being a spy required some bravery (though admittedly more in Snape's case than Pettigrew's). If Pettigrew didn't have enough courage he never could have survived as a spy so he would have been useless to Voldemort. On the other hand, if he was very brave he would either have turned Voldemort down flat (and therefore died) or agreed and became a double agent. Once Pettigrew was in Voldemort's hands (however he got there), there was no outcome that didn't require a degree of courage (or at least, not one I can think of). Choosing to die would have required either no courage whatsoever or a great deal. Becoming a spy required the courage to go through with it while becoming a double agent would have required as much courage as choosing to die. I don't claim Pettigrew was ever very brave (I'm certain he wasn't or he'd have chosen to die, and he did choose the least courageous path), but I do think his actions as a spy show more courage than he is often given credit for, though not enough to do the right thing.

And when looking at which house he should be in, when has he shown the qualities of any of the other houses? He's never shown himself to be intelligent, so Ravenclaw is not likely (probably the least likely). He's never shown much in the way of ambition so Slytherin's out. He's certainly not loyal, so he's not suited to Hufflepuff (unless you perceive Hufflepuff to be the dumping ground for all those that don't fit anywhere else). That leaves only Gryffindor. Also, remember both Sirius Black and Remus Lupin had already been sorted. If he'd already met the two of them (or even one of them), it's quite possible that he would have asked to be put ino Gryffindor so he could join them, a request I'm sure the Sorting Hat would consider.

I don't think the house identity should be taken too literally. Just because you are a Gryffindor doesn't mean you have to go out fighting dragons before breakfast everyday.
I also belong to the people who believe that you have a choice at the sorting, at least to a certain extent. The reasons for that are several. I seriously doubt that many people would have only one characteristic out of these, i.e. be ONLY loyal or ONLY ambitious. I'd say most children would show a combination of these traits, and they can then choose to develop or surpress them (often as a result of outside influence - f.ex. children learn from their parents that having a lot of ambition is either good or bad, depending on their parents view).
Somebody said earlier that how much you VALUE certain traits is important in the sorting, and this is basically the same thing. If you have learned as a kid that f.ex. being brave is a good thing, of course you'll try your best to be brave.

So, how does this translate to Peter Pettigrew? I think it means that this is a guy who feels absolutely miserable about what he is doing. That makes him different from Lucius Malfoy and his likes, since they don't seem to feel particularly bad at all about torturing people and things like that.
I honestly do not think Pettigrew wanted to betray his friends, I believe he was threatened/blackmailed/tortured by the big V, and that he gave in.
Knowing that he was a Gryffindor we can assume he DOES value courage (and that is probably why he idolized James and Sirius so much), so we can also imagine how bad he feels.
Of course what he did was inexcusable, but I do think that he is fighting with himself at the moment.
My bet is that he will save Harry's life before the end of the books. Not by chance, and not only because of his debt, but because he's finally decided to either become the person he wants to be, or die.

I think before Peter turned bad against Voldemort he was a really good person. Even though he was always the one who was left out when he was with James,Remus and Sirius.

Perhaps he chose to be? As DD has said, it is our choices that show who we really are. Wormtail was brave enough to join Voldemort wasn't he?

The hat does not think along the same lines as me and you, bedcause obviously it isn't human. It does not see people on a long term basis. Therefore, it can be fooled by false or current emontions.

Plus,Neville was in Griffindor

We wonder why Pettigrew was placed in Gryffindor just like at one time I'm sure most of us wondered what Neville was doing in Gryffindor. I know JKR has a reason for nearly everything she writes so I'm sure it wasn't a mistake that Peter was sorted into Gryffindor. He is brave and does have some courage... It's just not in the same sense that most of us typically think of.

Actually, its pretty obvious that he was and is a complete coward. youcant tell me he has courage

deadsirius, Neville is brave, just that he has not shown it yet. He has showed it a little bit, like standing up to his friends.

He has shown it in Stone standing up to the others, then against Malfoy and the gang, and against the death eaters. Edit: but this is on Peter not Neville. Peter must have been brave too I'm sure but we just havent seen them yet. He did go find Voldemort which might have been painful on his part who knows what creatures he might have face, then escaping from Lupin and the gang, otherwise he would have been frozen.

As far as the compassion that Harry showed to Peter, wasn't it in the 3rd book that Dumbledore said the time would come when Harry would be glad he saved Peter's life? I vaguely remember something JKR said in an interview along these lines, but she's also said that Dumbledore speaks for her. While he may occasionally be wrong, we have never seen such general statements to be false. I think that the way Peter repays his debt to Harry is going to require a great deal of bravery... even if that bravery is simply expressed by Peter doing nothing at the time when Voldemort needs him most.

Peter may be a snivelling wretch, but the debt he owes Harry is very real, part of those 'ancient magics' we hear about occasionally. It must be repaid, and as much as I dislike him I doubt that he'll be able to wriggle his way out of it.

As far as the compassion that Harry showed to Peter, wasn't it in the 3rd book that Dumbledore said the time would come when Harry would be glad he saved Peter's life? I vaguely remember something JKR said in an interview along these lines, but she's also said that Dumbledore speaks for her. While he may occasionally be wrong, we have never seen such general statements to be false. I think that the way Peter repays his debt to Harry is going to require a great deal of bravery... even if that bravery is simply expressed by Peter doing nothing at the time when Voldemort needs him most.

Peter may be a snivelling wretch, but the debt he owes Harry is very real, part of those 'ancient magics' we hear about occasionally. It must be repaid, and as much as I dislike him I doubt that he'll be able to wriggle his way out of it.DD did say something along those lines and I think many of us feel that at some point Pettigrew will come to Harry's aid. This is why I had made the comparison between Harry and his father (and the Marauders). James and the rest of the gang probably never showed any compassion for Pettigrew other than to allow him to hang around and fawn all over them. Somewhat predictably, Pettigrew betrayed James and the Marauders at a crucial moment. Harry did show mercy and this might save him in the long run.

OTOH, he may end up wishing he had let Lupin and Sirius kill Pettigrew. We expect Pettigrew to come to Harry's aid and he ends up betraying Harry. This would be the sort of twist JKR might like to use.

:)

Maybe he wasn't in Griffindor because he fitted there so good, but because he wouldn't fit in any other house. He wasn't clever- so he couldn't be in Ravenclaw. He might not have been ambitious (and perhaps not pureblood)- so he wasn't in Syltherin. Remberer the DDs speach about Cedric: Hufflepuffs should be hardworking (he was not) and loyal (he betrayed his friends!)- so he couldn't be there. Maybe he was not very couragous but at least he could fit better in Griffindor than in any other house.

JKR in the online interview never really confirmed that Peter was placed in Gryffindor but if he was then I guess we shall find out why in the future books, I kind of like the life debt and Peter saving Harry's life at the expense of his own.

earlier today, I did not mean that neville was a complete coward, PETER is. Sorry you misunderstood that. Peter Petegrew never showed the slightest sign of courage. He always stuck with whoever he thought was the strongest and when he wasn't sur, he went into hiding for 13 years. Then, when he went back to Voldemort just because of the fact that he might be stronger than the people who wanted to kill him.

I personally don't think Peter is brave, at least not now. He may have been when he was younger, we don't really know.

Cutting off his own hand doesn't make him brave. It just shows how cowardly he is, to cut off his own hand at Voldemort's command.

I like the idea that he actually wasn't in Gryffindor. I mean, do we know that for sure? Wasn't Lupin in Ravenclaw? I don't think James and Sirius would have hung out with Peter if he was in Slytherin. Maybe he was a Ravenclaw or a Hufflepuff.

P.S. We can't compare Neville to Peter, because Neville is not a coward, and he would never join the dark side!

Lupin was in Gryffindor- I think he was.

I read this somewhere, I forgot where, but I googled it. Rowling has said that in the first books the Sorting hat doesn't seem as important as it really is. And I also read that people can actually be re-sorted into different houses, and it may happen in the next book to someone.
Peter Pettigrew right now does not show bravery...but I believe before he went to the dark side he has courage, and I believe he will show it again in helping Harry in the end. Remember what Dumbeldore said..."The time may come where you find out that saving Peters life becomes very useful" Or something similar to that.

I forgot that he said that, mostly because I didn't believe it to be true. Don't you think Peter is in to deep to actually turn good again. Voldemort would know if he was a traitor...not to mention how unconvincing he is.

I don't believe Pettigrew is an evil form of Neville at all. If anyone, Pettigrew is more like Colin Creevy. Neville does not suck up to Harry, Ron, Hermoine, or anyone else. He is his own person and though he does not have any close friends he is well liked and would help out anyone who needed it. He is very loyal and very considerate. Pettigrew enjoyed being the brunt of the joke and played into the facet so the other Maruders would like him. Neville doesn't intentionally try to be laughed at, though he has come to accept this position but doesn't feed it. I think the ture similarity between the two is that both are very insecure with themselves, though Peter tries to find security through pleasing others. Neville's insecurity is rather he feels stupid and uncompetent, probably as result of such an overbearing grandmother. Once Neville realizes he is a talented wizard and gains some self-respect he'll be nothing at all like Pettigrew.

I think Peter can never be truly good again. For the time being he is on Voldemorts side. If and when the day comes that Wormtail actually does something to help Harry with Voldemorts downfall, I don't think it'll be something that Wormtail planned out. Voldemort can read minds, yes, but he can't predict the future. When Wormtail decides to betray Voldemort one last time, I think Voldemort will be a little pre-occuppied with other things then to start reading Wormtails mind.

Is it a fact that Pettigrew was in Gryffindor?
It's easy to see he wouldn't have been fit for Ravenclaw nor Hufflepuff, 'cause he lacks the virtues they price the most: intellect and loyalty.
But Gryfiindor? You're supposed to be brave to be a Gryffindor, and Pettigrew has proved to be a coward. A BIG one.
I guess he would have been better at Slytherin. Didn't he betray his friends to get what he wanted? That kind of ambition is well seen in Slytherins.

I think Peter can never be truly good again. For the time being he is on Voldemorts side. If and when the day comes that Wormtail actually does something to help Harry with Voldemorts downfall, I don't think it'll be something that Wormtail planned out. Voldemort can read minds, yes, but he can't predict the future. When Wormtail decides to betray Voldemort one last time, I think Voldemort will be a little pre-occuppied with other things then to start reading Wormtails mind.I don't think he'll be good again. I just think that the life-debt he owes Harry will force him to act bravely and somewhat nobly. I don't think that will involve sacrficing his own life, which is in my opinion the only way he could become good again - but it is possible.

DD did say something along those lines and I think many of us feel that at some point Pettigrew will come to Harry's aid. This is why I had made the comparison between Harry and his father (and the Marauders). James and the rest of the gang probably never showed any compassion for Pettigrew other than to allow him to hang around and fawn all over them. Somewhat predictably, Pettigrew betrayed James and the Marauders at a crucial moment. Harry did show mercy and this might save him in the long run. I think that's the other important thing. He's compassionate, which makes people follow him out of loyalty - sound somewhat like Dumbledore to you? ;)
That's the fundamental difference between Harry and his dad too - Harry shows compassion even for those who are evil - unless they're actively trying to kill him. James, at his age, just took it for granted that everyone liked and admired him, and therefore felt no need to be kind to them. Of course, James grew out of that, which I expect we'll see some proof of later (Whomping Willow incident, anyone?) - but the fact remains.
:desperate attempt to tie this into the thread:
Harry's compassion is probably the thing that will save him - power the Dark Lord knows not? I think that, depsite himself, Peter legitimately LIKES Harry. He admired James greatly, and I think that it most likely hurt him to betray the Potters. Of course, once he did it his cowardly side forced him to enact that whole scene with Sirius... but I think that Peter, like everyone else, sees James in Harry. He admires Harry, as he did James, and legitmately likes him because of the compassion he was shown. I think he also has guilt as to what he did to Harry's parents, his best friends... I think that the combination of these things with the life-debt is going to cause him to do something extremely brave at some point. It won't be enough to redeem him - it can't be, since what he did was so despicable - but it will be enough to put him in eternal limbo instead of Hell, I think.
:angel: Just my two cents...

I hate wormtail he is such a wimp he always goes with the big ones so that he is always safe and I hate him. Yes okay maybe it did take courage to go back to Voldemort and cut off his hand for Voldemorts return but he should be in Slytherin this must meen that wormtail is the only wizard that turned evil that wasn't in Slytherin because in PS Hagrid said "There wasn't a witch or wizard who turned bad that wasn't in Slytherin" something like that anyway.

You know it's possible Peter will have a change of heart and betray Voldemort.
It could be deep in his heart somewhere.
That or it's what I've been saying. His morales are skewed.
He certaintly demonstrated having ambitions. But who knows why the sorting hat places people. It must be a difficult thing to seperate so many students. It's going to encounter a few with more than one strong characteristic.
It might've had an agenda.

He was brave enough to face against Sirius.
His behaviour towards Harry and Ron in the shack may not have appeared to be brave but that could've been act.
We know Crouch jr was acting during his trial. I imagine acting is a good skill to have if you work for Voldemort.

Ah, the life debt. I hope JKR nails down the exact importance of this, given that both Snape and Pettigrew may or may not have one for a Potter.

There is a moment in the graveyard in GOF where Harry is escaping and Voldemort is calling for someone to get out of his way - could this have been Pettigrew happening in the way of Voldemort and preventing him from getting out a curse at Harry? If so, would this remove the life debt?

OR, if Pettigrew didn't do anything good here for Harry, how powerful can the life debt be if Pettigrew was able to harm Harry in the graveyard as part of the ritual? Theorectically, it was all leading to Harry's demise - are we to assume Pettigrew would have done something at the last minute?

Given JKR's emphasis on choices and free will, I sort of think that the bond created by the life debt, assuming it is even a magical and not just a spiritual bond, is not one that would COMPEL a person to do something they don't want to do. Of course, not sure what sort of magical power it would have over a person, but I have a hard time believing it would remove one's free will.

Given JKR's emphasis on choices and free will, I sort of think that the bond created by the life debt, assuming it is even a magical and not just a spiritual bond, is not one that would COMPEL a person to do something they don't want to do. Of course, not sure what sort of magical power it would have over a person, but I have a hard time believing it would remove one's free will.My theory is that while it's not something that will force someone to do something, Peter is still the kind of person who will want to repay his debts. Between his guilt at the deaths of the Potters and his debt to Harry, I think he will do something brave. The only reason he hasn't done so so far is that he's been too busy trying to save his own skin. Perhaps at a point when his own death becomes inevitable, he will make some last-ditch effort to help save Harry, and die with both debts repaid.

I think that Peter was in Gryffindor because JKR wants to emphazise the fact that not ALL Gryffindors are perfect people. It could be one of Harry's fellow Gryffindors that betray him, it could be anybody. Not everyone in Gryffindor is completely loyal and brave.

if peter was a griffindor how come he was such a whimp ???

i mean to be in griffindor you would need courage and bravery in your blood and the way peter pettigreew has been described he has neither ?!?
what do you mean "in your blood". I don't think blood has anything to do with it. But this is interesting. Here are my thoughts.

In the first book, the sorting hat classfiies Gryffindors as "Where dwell the brave a heart. Thier daring nerve, and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." Now Peter doesn't seem to match these descriptions. Well we don't know about chivalry yet, but I doubt he has it.

In the second book Harry misses the sorting. Same with in the third book.

In the fourth book. "Bold Gryffindor from wild moor." Well, Petter is kinda bold. "By Gryffindor, the bravest were prized far beyond the rest" That means not all of them have to be brave, just most of them do. "Twas Gryffindor who found the way, He whipped me off his head The founders put some brains in me So I could choose instead!" That doesn't say too much.

In the fifth book. "Said Gryffindor, 'We'll teach those With brave deads to their name."
Maybe Petter had done brave deeds. He worked for the ministry of magic for a while, didn't he? The sorting hat has never been wrong though, so I'm sure Petter was meant to be in Gryffindor.

One more thing "Not all wizards are good, Harry". Well, I say, that not all Gryffindors are good. After all the sorting hat didn't say you have to be a saint to be sorted into Gryffindor.

Showing that anyone can turn out to be bad!

if peter was a griffindor how come he was such a wimp ???

i mean to be in griffindor you would need courage and bravery in your blood and the way peter pettigreew has been described he has neither ?!?

The way I look at it is that Peter may be like Neville. Nevill is pretty wimpy unless something angers him like Bellatrix Lestrange saying that she enjoyed meeting his parents. At that time, Neville was being unlike his usual self-wimpy. He was being brave. So Peter could just be like Neville. The sorting hat sees deep into yourself it might of seen Peter like it saw Neville.

[QUOTE=SilverStar04]Peter isn't a wimp............he went back to Voldy and even gave his right hand...I don't consider that a wimp.......[



Of course he is a whimp 1. he is only a deatheater because he needed bigger and stronger to protect him like in hogwarts. 2. he gave his hand because it was either that or having voldy kill him. :gryff:

Maybe because he asked the hat just like Harrry asked to not be in Syltherin.

[QUOTE=SilverStar04]Peter isn't a wimp............he went back to Voldy and even gave his right hand...I don't consider that a wimp...
You're right. From a certain point of view he did belong in Gryffindor.

I'm kind of inclined to trust JKR in her placing of people within certain houses. I mean, we can't possibly know, ultimately, how everyone will behave to justify their placement in particular houses because we haven't got to the end of the series yet. I'm sure that there's a good reason she placed Pettigrew in Gryffindor. Yes, he's cowardly and pathetic with all the backbone of an invertebrate, (although I agree with the person who made the point that to cut your hand off isnt wimpy....unless you really think thee's something wonderful going to be in it for you, that is...) but she did say on an internet chat back in March that he wasn't beyond redemption. I think that Harry, Voldemort and Pettigrew are bound together now in some way since Voldemort was reborn. JKR also said that she'd worded the prophecy very carefully - I've said before elsewhere that I sometimes think that 'the other' bit could refer to a third party...like maybe Pettigrew. 'Die at thehand of another - don't people usually say 'hands'? Why did Pettigrew cut off his hand as opposed to another finger or something? It seemed in that chapter in GoF that Voldemort and Pettigrew had discussed the giving of his hand before they got to the graveyard and that Voldemort had promised him something...a new hand. A 'silver' hand, a stronger hand....

The prophecy also said 'the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord', not 'to kill'. Vanquish doesn't necessarily mean to kill. What if Harry destroys the essence of Lord Voldemort, but maybe Pettigrew will actually kill him?

Mmm....just an idea....

Anyone else think that there might be a tie between the three of them here somewhere?

I apologize if someone said this already.

I think Sirius & Remus only knew in hind sight what kind of person Peter really was. When they were in school together, he was their friend and they trusted him. All the stuff Sirius says to Peter in the Shrieking Shack about him following around behind those who were stronger and etc. is with the benefit of years and knowledge of what he had done. Or maybe Peter really was a good person in the beginning, when the sorting hat put him in Gryffindor, then at some later point in time he encountered Voldemort and the rest is history - he turned into a traitor.

What do you think?

That's the fundamental difference between Harry and his dad too - Harry shows compassion even for those who are evil - unless they're actively trying to kill him. James, at his age, just took it for granted that everyone liked and admired him, and therefore felt no need to be kind to them. Of course, James grew out of that, which I expect we'll see some proof of later (Whomping Willow incident, anyone?) - but the fact remains.
Exactly. James had something Harry never had- a set of caring parents. I'm sure Lily and James would've been great parents, but unfortunately, they were killed before they had to chance to do so. Many things that we take for granted, Harry treasures (among them respect and admiration). Having always been treated like dirt makes him feel pity for others that we normally would treat with disdain, i.e. pettigrew. I'm sure if Harry had been in LotR (LotR fans, please don't rip me for that, I'm not saying whether one is better than another), he would've taken pity on Gollum, just like Sam did.

A couple of people have asked this, but not too many have really addressed it -- do you all really believe he was Griffindor? Here's the quote from the WBD Chat again:Sirius Riddle: What houses were Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, James Potter and Remus Lupin in? Everyone tells me they were all Gryffindor, but I won't believe it unless I hear it from Ms. Rowling herself!
JK Rowling says: This is JK herself saying that they were indeed in Gryffindor! So Remus is listed twice, Peter isn't in there. I've checked transcripts at three sites and they are all the same. It seems a lot of people overlook that error, and JKR may have too, but unless there's another quote on the issue, it seems possible that Peter may not have been Griffindor.

Someone early on mentioned how Peter has been underestimated all along, and I so agree with that. I mean, Sirius calls him weak and talentless, McGonagall says he was foolish, never had the talent of James and Sirius -- but look, help or not, he did manage the dangerous animagus transformation; he fooled everyone in the Order, including Dumbledore, about being the spy; and he managed to blow up an entire street, killing 12 muggles and escape losing nothing more than a finger (and that done purposely). Fudge said the scene was so bad that he was sure nobody but a trained hit wizard could have captured Black -- meaning Peter did a heck of a job in his escape. He was not untalented, in my estimation.

That whole escape plan -- framing Sirius and leaving the finger, for heaven's sake -- requires a good deal of cleverness and cunning, does it not? Sirius claims he always wanted to be with the biggest bullies on the block or whatever the phrase was. A sign of ambition, perhaps? Sure, he could have been Neville-like, a late-bloomer, but I don't think so if he's doing the animagus transfiguration in fifth year. He was hiding it. If he was not already nasty, why was his animagus form a rat? :huh: If Peter was Slytherin, Hagrid's little comment about all dark wizards coming out of Slytherin would be ture again, too. And if Peter was a DE, it would logically follow that he was pure-blood, unless he was the "special circumstance" that JKR mentions in the latest chat (which I admit I actually I favor, unless it's Snape but that's another thread.)

The big question is why Sirius and James would let Peter hang around, especially if he was a Slytherin, unless it was just a big ego trip (given the way he is practically drooling over James in SWM.) Even Madam Rosmerta and McGonagall seem sort of puzzled by it. They don't describe him as a friend, but as a tag-along.

There are good arguments to be made in favor of bravery too but I'm thinking we can't overlook the possibility he's Slytherin.

Yes, but if the relations between Gryffindor and Slytherin houses were anything like what they are today, I'm guessing Peter would've had to be in Gryffindor along with the other three Marauders. The Sorting Hat does take personal choices into account when putting people in houses (look at Harry and Hermione) so if 11-year-old Peter decided bravery was what he valued, the Hat went with that and put him in Gryffindor.

I think Peter's a pretty good Gryffindor(hold the rotten tomatoes and other vegetables, please!). The only one of the Sorting Hat's stated criteria that he does not fulfill is chivalry. Let's look at what the Sorting Hat has told us about those criteria:

-What are the characteristics of House Gryffindor?

From PS/SS:
"brave at heart"
"daring"
"nerve"
"chivalry"

From GoF:
"bravest"

Funny, isn't it? I don't see "integrity" anywhere on the list. Nor do I see a single mention of "pride," "stoicism," or "courage." I don't see "wisdom" either (although I did see that mentioned as a Ravenclaw characteristic). I don't see "loyalty" (that's Hufflepuff). Nor do I see any clause about "those who do not betray their friends to the enemy." Ironically enough, the closest thing to that criteria that the Hat has ever mentioned has been attributed to House Slytherin.
So why all this dismay over the Sorting of Peter Pettigrew?
Remember, moral bravery is not the same thing as bravery.

I have found myself being intriged by Peter, so here (http://http://potterfunk.tripod.com/index2.html) is a link to a great Peter Pettigrew site...

I think that there is more to Peter Pettigrew than meets the eye and I am still saying like someone before who supported my opinion that so far the Sorting Hat has always been right that Peter has changed probably. This is going to sound weird, but why not betray Peter with Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars. Both betrayed the good side and their friends, but started as nice trainees (wizard and jedi), turned out quite good (jedi and in the Order) though in all object turned bad. My point is that someone who was good before can maybe if he is weak be turned to the evil side easily.

Maybe Peter will prove bravery by saving Harry's life later on. I don't have an evidence that would suggests he was brave in school. Everyone knows him as a little coward if I'm not mistaken. I think he will have to prove this later on and possibly with Harry.

He was a weak wizard compaired to James, Sirius, and Remus. But he wasn't a bad wizard. They kept him near their level, always giving him help and all that, he giving them help in subjects he was better at (I'm thinking herbology).


Exactly. We are given impression he was a weak wizard, and are a suprised when
he apparently did achieved strong wizardry after all. But this is wrong impression!
James, Sirius, Lupin were the best in the school. Peter was weaker than them, yes, but it doesnt mean he was really weak. The Alps are small compared to Himalaya, but they are still big and awesome mountains. He must have been, and is a wizard skilled well above the average by his nature. And he did learnt a lot from his friends, which he probably couldnt do alone. He must be counted as a strong master of wizardry, it is the only way to explain his deeds.

I am very glad to see there are others her thinking along these my lines.

Ah, the life debt. I hope JKR nails down the exact importance of this, given that both Snape and Pettigrew may or may not have one for a Potter.

There is a moment in the graveyard in GOF where Harry is escaping and Voldemort is calling for someone to get out of his way - could this have been Pettigrew happening in the way of Voldemort and preventing him from getting out a curse at Harry? If so, would this remove the life debt?


Beautiful finding! Yes, if it wasnt one of the Goyle and Co with their stupidity and clumsiness so it must have been Peter doing a small repaying of his dept.

Of course, he couldnt go openly against Voldemort. This would be his way; to be a little clumsy at the right moment!

Everyone thinks Neville isn't brave. But he clearly is. They are kind of the same type, except Neville isn't such a traitor to his friends. He would never, ever join the dark side, not even under pressure, then he would rather die. You need a lot of courage to resist the strongest power...

Brave does not mean nice, or good. He was brave enough to turn traitor, although some might view this as cowardice, but he was still with the marauders day after day, risking discovery so...

We need to bear in mind that there are many types of courage, it is not all facing Voldemort at 11 (although I think this is much more courageous than anything Wormtail did), otherwise Neville would never have earned his house points in SS/PS.

he WAS brave. he stood up to his friends (even if for the wrong reasons) just as neville did in SS/PS.

anyway, this is EXACTLY the reason why i believe peter will be good in the end. i think the house a character is sorted in is already a forshadowing in itself. the fact that he was put in gryffindor proves that he has SOME good in him. perhaps it just hasnt come out yet. perhaps the hats decision will be justified in the end.

I think that there is more to Peter Pettigrew than meets the eye and I am still saying like someone before who supported my opinion that so far the Sorting Hat has always been right that Peter has changed probably. This is going to sound weird, but why not betray Peter with Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars. Both betrayed the good side and their friends, but started as nice trainees (wizard and jedi), turned out quite good (jedi and in the Order) though in all object turned bad. My point is that someone who was good before can maybe if he is weak be turned to the evil side easily.

he was brave but turned evil when temptations arise..

firstly how do we even know that pettigrew was in gryffindor, i mean it is all asumed and prove me wrong which i probably am but where exactly does it say that he was in gryffindor and dont just say it does give me concreate evidence. i dont think it states which house any of the maurderers were in allong with lilly and even snape (although it may with snape i am unsure) every time i read a book i take special notice which house they are in and i have never picked up on it. The point i am trying to make is that pettigrew could of been in slytherin and james etc in gryffindor, maybe that is why snape found it so peculiar the the mauderers disapeard every month because he would see pettigrew leave the common room.
people who are comparing neville to pettigrew have it all wrong i think. firstly it should be noted that there is more then one type of bravery, there is emotionall, brave tackeling it head on bravery, etc etc....... and nevill does possess alot of bravery, i mean he stood up against the death eaters when he couldnt even talk, you cant get much braver than that.

yes i think it is a big wonder why he was sorted into gryffindor.
and yet maybe the sorting hat had its reasons.. even if pettigrew was a big wimp maybe the sorting hat had forseen the future and.... :tu:

Well, Gryffindor's are supposed to be brave of heart, and I think the argument could be made that Peter Pettigrew was brave, in his own way. Hear me out on this before you start sending curses towards the greenhouses !

Bravery takes many forms... Ron sacrificing himself in the chess game was brave; Sirius going to the MoM, knowing the potential consequences, was brave; Harry going alone into the Chamber of Secrets was brave. I submit that acting as a spy, right underneath Dumbledore's nose, took a certain amount of bravery. I agree that Wormtail's personal cowardice put him in this place in the first place, since he thought LV was going to win the war and he wanted to be on the winning side. But, double-agents also show bravery in my opinion, even if there actions are horribly distasteful...

(ducking behind Greenhouse 3 to avoid all sorts of curses)

Just because you're brave doesn't mean you can't be evil.

You being a Gryffindor doesn't necessary mean you're good, and being a Slythering doesn't necessary mean you're evil : )

Maybe he was brave, but we just haven't seen any of his bravery yet. We haven't seen that much of him, after all.

I skimmed so forgive me if I am double posting. But here are my thoughts. DD tells Harry in CoS that we are defined by our choices and that the Sorting Hat put him in Gryffindor because he asked to be placed there. With Peter, the sorting hat would only have been able to evaluate his choices to the date of the sorting. As we all probably notice there are similar traits between Gryffindor and Slytherin but it is the choices that define them in many ways. So my thoughts are that Peter's choice patterns changed after sorting and that is how someone so foul could have ended up in Gryffindor.

I think that Peter is a good example of a Neville gone bad. Choice is BIG and Neville is choosing to make his own power and be a good friend, whereas Peter kept mooching off his friends and eventually betrayed them. Both were in Gryffindor but that doesn't mean their destinies were automatically arranged to be courageous and loyal. Remember Nearly Headless Nick was scared of death so he became a ghost- that is rather un-courageous if you ask me........but he chose. You get to choose.

firstly how do we even know that pettigrew was in gryffindorHere's the quote (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2004/0304-wbd.htm):Sirius Riddle: What houses were Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, James Potter and Remus Lupin[sic] in? Everyone tells me they were all Gryffindor, but I won't believe it unless I hear it from Ms. Rowling herself!
JK Rowling says: This is JK herself saying that they were indeed in Gryffindor! So, since the questioner slipped up and put Remus in twice and left out Peter, the question is up for debate.

I, for one, still believe he's Slytherin. Here's what the Sorting Hat says about the two houses: Slytherin: "cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends" "power-hungry Slytherin loved those of great ambition" "pure-blood wizards of great cunning"
Gryffindor: "brave at heart, their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart" "bravest" "with brave deeds to their name...the bravest and the boldest went to daring Gryffindor" So Gryffindor is primarily bravery, but Slytherin is ambitious, cunning and power-hungry. It was pretty cunning for Peter to manage to slip down the sewer and frame Sirius in the process, and he has to be pretty ambitious to be willing to whack off a hand in order to receive his reward -- not to mention the power-hungry habit of wanting to hang with the "biggest bullies on the block." But what I find far more interesting is what Phineas Nigellus says in OotP: "We Slytherins are brave, yes, but not stupid. For instance, given the choice, we will always choose to save our own necks."Look at Peter -- when he's threatened, he turns into a rat and slips down a sewer. And then in PoA he pleads for his life. But if we look at known Gryffindors, many of them have willingly risked their lives for others, rather than run:

James: risked his life to save Snape, not to mention "thrice defying" Voldemort
Sirius: risked his life (and eventually gave it) to save Harry
Harry: well, you know...
Ron: took the fall in the chess match in PS/SS for Harry
Neville: challenges the DE in OotP

Not only did they not back down or run away from danger; in some cases they chose to put themselves into danger to help someone else. The only time Peter is risking his life is when he sees something in it for him (power or rewards).

If that's not enough, look at Peter's own words: "I was scared Sirius, I was never brave like you and Remus and James. ...
"He was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh-what was there to be gained by refusing him?" ...
"you don't understand!" whined Pettigrew. "He would have killed me, Sirius!" In one little speech he manages to deny being brave, hint at his real motives (ambition), and admit to doing whatever it takes to save his neck. I don't know, that sounds pretty much like Phineas' definition of a Slytherin to me.

Granted, it could be like others have said, that he "grew into" his Slytherin ways, but if he was Gryffindor, I think the Sorting Hat thought long and hard before he put him there.

In most cases I think the Sorting Hat puts people in Hufflepuff that don't fit into any other catogory, but in Wormtails case he wouldn't have fit into Slytherin, because he really isn't all that cunning - he wouldn't fit in Ravenclaw because he's not that bright, or he wouldn't have ended up with Voldemort or spent twelve years as a rat - he doesn't fit in Hufflepuff because he's not hard working (once again based on his choice to be a rat) or loyal -

I think he made Gryffindor because JKR wanted him there :)

I agree with what gena7180 said about the choices-I think Peter had potential to turn out to be an OK guy but because of his choices ended up with Voldemort. I noted someone mentioned that he's like Neville, only bad, which seems a valid comparison. I actually really like that comparison and have thought about it before. I think the difference is that Neville has had a terrible experience with Voldemort's powers because his parents are at St. Mungo's because of Voldemort's supporters. I think that has really influenced him (yes, I know, understatement of the century), but I also think that the prophecy has indirectly influenced him.

It is possible that Peter was sorted in a different house from the other Mauraders but I find it highly unlikely. We see mixing between the house but we also see that the closest friendships tend to be with house mates. Also it would be hard for Peter to meet up with the others for the amount of time probably necessary for their work on becoming animigi. The final nail in the coffin for me is that it seems that Peter would not have been the type that Sirius and James would have gone out of their way to include in their group which is what they would have done if he was in a different house. Peter was probably a dorm mate who just started out being included because he was there not out of any real inclusion by the others.

As for him being sorted in Gryffindor, I believe that the hat can pick up the possibilities of different traits from the students as well as understand their wishes of where the wish to go (as we saw with Harry). It is probable as many have said that the "seed" of bravery was there in Peter but it was never developed. He chose another path even though he and the hat chose Gryffindor for his house.

It certainly does seem counterintuitive that Peter Pettigrew was sorted into Gryffindor. After all, he doesn’t appear to be brave, chivalrous, or daring at first glace; and especially not so as a child.

But I do think Peter actually does have some of these qualities. For example, Peter does have daring, as shown by the fact that he joined Voldemort. I’m not sure of the exact circumstances under which he became a Death Eater, but I do think it was a daring move (though it was daring in the wrong way- I picture it to have been something Peter did because he wanted power and was upset with the way his friends treated him).

And in a twisted sort of way, Peter does show bravery in following Voldemort’s orders- even the more difficult ones, such as cutting off his hand. I know he also does it to keep himself alive (so he doesn’t end up like Regulus), but I think it takes guts to cut off your hand. It also must have taken guts to go through with his plot to frame Sirius for Lily and James’ murder- an area where Peter also showed bravery, since he not only had to face Sirius, but he had to cut off his finger and transform as well.

In addition to these things, I believe Peter will redeem himself to a degree by fulfilling the life debt he owes Harry. So I think he may show some true Gryffindor quality by defying/thwarting Voldemort.

As an aside, I think Peter is an example of someone whose Gryffindor qualities are skewed. It’s easy to see how Slytherin traits can get skewed, but I think it’s harder to see how Gryffindor taints might become skewed. Peter also demonstrates a lack of many of the traits that define Gryffindors as well, such as chivalry. So while Peter isn't completely Gryffindor like Harry is, but he must be more suited to Gryffindor than the other houses.

A few people mentioned this, but the big mistake that many are making is judging the 11 year-old Pettigrew by the 20 year-old one. People change a lot over half of their lives. Pettigrew might well have been a fairly brave individual for an 11 year-old. However, after spending years in general awe of his friends, he could easily have lost the confidence that he had as a child.

This is not very far-fetched. Potter and Black apparently were good at just about everything they did and the “height of cool.” Pettigrew would rapidly have become just a tag-along who had quickly lost his self-confidence, and thus his natural bravery.


Percy offers a similar example. He no doubt began as a Hermione-esque type. However, by the time he was 19, he had become quite the proper Slytherin. The Sorting Hat obviously could not know what the 11 year old would become.

I think Peter's bravery could show up in the future. The students are only at Hogwarts for 7 years- a short time out of a whole lifetime. Therefore the sorting hat may have seen far into the future. He got swayed off the straight and narrow when he joined voldemort, but there is still chance (2 books' worth) to redeem himself. I think we may see him betray voldemort in the end and come back to the Good side, thus ultimately showing his bravery.

Okay, this is a very random thought.. But what if Peter had other plans the night of October 31st? What if he had planned to tell Voldemort where the Potter's were, but with the intention of meeting him and stopping him before Voldy had a chance to reach the Potters.
Voldemort is rarely without his loyal deatheaters, so maybe Peter had had some hair-brianed scheme to become a double agent (like snape) stop Voldy singlehandedly, therefor proving himself to his friends.. but then something went wrong, and it was too late already. Notice that Peter didn't kill Sirius, but did kill 12 other people. Why?

We don't know exactly what happened at the Potter's house that night, but I hope we find out soon!

they're always saying that neville was like peter pettigrew, and neville's in gryffindor, maybe peter was like neville when he was in school. peter was a weak wizard, and voldemort convinced him that power was better than good or evil, like he did to quirrell.

I slightly agree but I guess Wormtail was in the Gryffindor because he's still brave... there's braveness inside him... it's like Hermione... why Hermione was sorted in Gryffindor but she's intelligent and she could be placed in Ravenclaw. We just don't have any idea about the adventures Wormtail, Prongs, Moony and Padfoot had that might answer us... how brave Wormtail is?

I slightly agree but I guess Wormtail was in the Gryffindor because he's still brave... there's braveness inside him... it's like Hermione... why Hermione was sorted in Gryffindor but she's intelligent and she could be placed in Ravenclaw. We just don't have any idea about the adventures Wormtail, Prongs, Moony and Padfoot had that might answer us... how brave Wormtail is?

Yeah, i get what you mean. Peter could have had the potential to be brave and loyal, but he grew and changed. He certainly wasnt loyal, seeing how Lily and James are dead and Harry has a cursed scar on his head, and brave??? I didnt see much bravery in the little scum, but maybe he is pretty brave, we havnt actually seen a whole lot of him.

I think in the end he will sacrifice himself to save Harry because of the life debt. Thus proving himself to be worthy of being a Gryffindor. He has braveness in him, it's just been corrupted by Voldemort. The Sorting Hat doesn't put you in a house because he knows you will do something brave, he puts you in the house because that house's defining quality lies inside you. Peter just hasn't been able to tap into his courage that resides in him. He will redeem himself in the end sacrificing his life for Harry.

That is something I can be sure of.

Dumbledor said in G.o.f i think , that peter owes harry because he saved him etc etc so maybe later peter will show his er. braver side and save harry from something... though it aint looking likely, I wonder why JKR put that in?
Also maybe peter was corrupted earlyer on , but after he was sorted -so at the sorting he portrayed potential for good, and bravery etc...
Sorry if these points were brought up earlier on - but i didn't read all of the beforesaid posts

i think that wormtail needs to be the next to die in the books...i wouldnt shed a tear.

Voldemort is rarely without his loyal deatheaters, so maybe Peter had had some hair-brianed scheme to become a double agent (like snape) stop Voldy singlehandedly, therefor proving himself to his friends.. but then something went wrong, and it was too late already. Notice that Peter didn't kill Sirius, but did kill 12 other people. Why?

Pettigrew probably was not up to killing Black, but he was up for framing Black.

Also, had Pettigrew been attempting some sort of double-double cross, he would have tried to convince Lupin of that in the Shack. Indeed, it is a little surprising that he did not attempt to do that. Either JKR did not think of it, or she decided that Petigrew would not think of it.

Wll Dumbledore said himself's our choices that define who we really are, when Harry asked why he was in Gryffindor when the sorting hat told him he would do well in Slytherin. (I cant be bothered going to look up the exact wording, but i'm pretty use it's CoS when Harry is talking to Dumbledore in Mcgonagall's office.

I think wizards are sorted by their potential, not on their actions in the future. I doubt that the Sorting Hat has taken Divination Studies [sarcasm]. It is unlikely that anyone would have known that Pettigrew would turn on his friends.
Obviously, the Sorting Hat saw potential for Bravery and Courage in Pettigrew. Although we haven't seen that in him yet, the quality might yet be revealed in the future.
Just because we can't / haven't seen it yet, doesn't necessarily mean it is not there...

I don't think that the Sorting Hat listened to Harry either. I just think that the sorting hat looks at all your qualities, and you might be strong in two house areas, but sees through to your strongest quality and focuses on that. Harry had part of Voldemort in him, which is why he probably would have done very well in Slytherin. But the true POTTER in him was the reason he got chosen for Gryffindor

Zorro (nice name!) - I must gently disagree with you:
Obviously, the Sorting Hat saw potential for Bravery and Courage in Pettigrew. Although we haven't seen that in him yet, the quality might yet be revealed in the future.
Just because we can't / haven't seen it yet, doesn't necessarily mean it is not there.
I believe we have seen great courage and bravery from Pettigrew, just not in a good way. What I mean is this - courage enables one to face danger with self-possession, confidence, and resolution (thanks to my handy-dandy dictionary!). Pettigrew certainly faced a whole lot of danger - from Voldy when Pettigrew was spying for him (Crucio!, anyone?). He also faced unimaginable danger by spying right underneath Dumbledore's nose, working against his (previous) best friends and the rest of the Order....
To paraphrase Ollivanders, Pettigrew did brave deeds; terrible, yes, but brave.

I think that the Sorting Hat sorts you into what you want to be in, in addition to what your personality traits are. I mean, why did Hermione get into Gryffindor when she's so smart? The Hat considered putting her in Ravenclaw but didn't. Why? She must have had some sort of desire or instinct to be in Gryffindor. Or the Sorting Hat is MUCH more complex than we think it is, but that's off topic....

My point, however, is that Pettigrew either badly wanted to be in Gryffindor, or the Sorting Hat had a good reason for putting him there.

I do think Peter was a coward when he was with people like James and Sirius (who made him feel inferior). I think he really wanted to feel like he belonged and was needed to a group of people, and I think that's why he turned to Voldemort and his death eaters. When he turned to them I think he was brave, and that’s why I think he was placed in Gryffindor.

I believe we have seen great courage and bravery from Pettigrew, just not in a good way. What I mean is this - courage enables one to face danger with self-possession, confidence, and resolution (thanks to my handy-dandy dictionary!). Pettigrew certainly faced a whole lot of danger - from Voldy when Pettigrew was spying for him (Crucio!, anyone?). He also faced unimaginable danger by spying right underneath Dumbledore's nose, working against his (previous) best friends and the rest of the Order....
To paraphrase Ollivanders, Pettigrew did brave deeds; terrible, yes, but brave.

Thanks for the gentle diagreement (some people can really knock one for having a different oppinion :wow: ).

Likewise, I would like to disagree with you, nicely of course ... :angel:
When Sirius and Lupin were talking to Peter in the Haunted Shack, I think it was Sirius who said that Peter was always looking for the biggest, strongest, smartest (darn - wish I had by books here ...) person to befriend ie. James and Sirius. That was why he said that they should have known that Peter was the traitor (as Voldemort was now the biggest bully in the playground - so to speak).
Although you do have a good point about the fact that by going to Voldemort etc. was brave (I mean, he cut off his hand for the guy - I would have broken land speed records running away instead), I also wonder how much cowardise was the real cause for his actions. Sirius pointed out that all the Death Eaters were after the traitor, because they felt that he had mislead Voldemort, and as a result, caused his fall from power. Peter also knew that he would be sent to Azkaban, (even possibly had his soul sucked out of him) if he stayed in the company of his former friends. The only other person he had to turn to for 'protection' would have been Voldemort (or gone into hiding disguised as a rat again - but maybe he felt his 'cover was blown').

At least, that is how I see it, and as I didn't write the books, there is a good chance I am wrong ...

because, in the end, peter will be the bravest of all and turn on voldemort - betray him - LV wont expect it cos peter is so week -

I think we've yet to see the reason Peter was sorted into Gryffindor. I believe (and hope!) that, in the end, he'll do what's right and stand up to Voldemort, most likely to save Harry's life. Evil git or not, standing up to Voldemort takes a lot of bravery.

Not to state the obvious here, but for plot purposes alone, he needed to be a Gryffindor, and a Marauder, to set the plot in motion. (If he hadn't been in Gryffindor, he wouldn't have been so close to James and Lily ... you know the rest). That said, I believe that Peter's moment of bravery will come, we just haven't seen it yet.

pettigrew was in gryffindor becasue he wasn't cunning, wasn't loyal or patient. And he wasn't smart. No where else to put him

You can argue that he was in any of the houses, but for him to build up a relationship with Sirius, James and Reemus he would moost likley have to be in the sme house.

Good question. But, look at Neville, he is very like Peter Pettigrew, beacuse he's a whimp as well. Also, he tags along behind everyone else the way Peter used to do with James, Sirius and Remus. But i don't think he would betray his friends and sell them to Voldemort, he's not that much of a whimp and he must be more of a loyal friend not to do that as well, that's the only difference between him and Peter! I don't like Peter Pettigrew anyway, he's a dirty, rotten snitch if you ask me!

The issue of house placement is so interesting, for Peter and for other characters too(see interesting threads on house placement for Fudge, Percy, etc.) Not all Gryffindors are good, not all Slytherins are bad, and the same with Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff. We like to identify with Gryffies and demonize Slythies, but I think we'll see the error of our ways somewhere in books 6 and/or 7 like the Sorting Hat sings in OotP!

i think he was once a very brave individual...but once He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (JK!) Voldemort got ahold of him, he lost all his bravery and everything...

We don't know if he was in Griffindor.

Well maybe he's just hiding that bravery and he will do some courageous deed that will bring out the Gryffindor in him.

Also as HPMegafan said, we don't yet know what House Peter was in.

We don't know if he was in Griffindor.

I thought JKR said all the Mauraders were in Griffindor.....


PP certainly is not done....I think he will kill Lupin(sorry, No deaths by pokingers.) and sacrifice his life for Harry.....

i think that Peter isnt really a whimp because he betrayed his friends and cut off his finger, im not a whimp but i for sure would not cut off my finger or betray my friends maybe in books 6&7 we will find out if he is brave or not. If he isnt brave then we know that he most likely asked the hat to put him in Gryffindor because harry did the same thing.

why would they be friends with him if he wasn't in Gryffindor?

Nah, maybe he's got some bravery in him, we just didn't see it yet. Is joining LV brave? Is betraying his friends brave? Well, both are kinda, in a sick kind of way.

But why's Neville in Gryffindor? Just because you haven't done anything really brave - doesn't mean you don't have it in you. He went along to the DA and the MoM, just like Wormtail went along with all the Marauders' adventures, and though Wormtail gets overshadowed by them, it was brave to go in the first place.

Sorting Hat measures potential, not actual accomplishments. Someone could be in Gryffindor but never gets the opportunity to save someone else. They can, but they never did. Same with Peter; he has the potential to be brave, but he's never used it before. I wonder if he even knows that he's brave.

I would find it really hard to believe that James and Sirius would be friends with Peter if he was not a Gryffindor. They had no problem bullying others, so I would assume if Peter were in Slytherin, he would have been another prime candidate for picking on.

As far as Peter not showing any bravery, I would say that it could be quite possible that the Sorting Hat could have given him the same choice that it gave Harry. We know that it's always about choices. Peter could have chosen to be in Gryffindor, even though he would have been well suited in Slytherin.

Peter likely asked the Sorting Hat to put him in Gryffindor so he could be with the rest of Maruaders, whom he likely met in Diagon Alley or on the Hogwarts Express.

Perhaps Peter will redeem himself later, and make it clear why he was in Gryffindor.

Maybe he will show his bravery with the debt he owes Harry. That has to be used later on in the books. Maybe he'll save Harry, or do something that Harry asks him, if only to get the debt off of him.

Well, the wizard chooses the house, so maybe Peter wanted to be in Gryffindor.

Well, the wizard chooses the house, so maybe Peter wanted to be in Gryffindor.

Sorry - I think the Sorting Hat chooses the house. Why would anyone choose Hufflepuff?

I think Harry's was a once-off, because he suited both Gryffindor and Slytherin. And maybe Seamus, too - he spent so long under the Hat. Generally, it's obvious and the Hat chooses the house.

Why was he in Gryffindor?
Ravenclaw: he's not clever
Hufflepuff: he's not hardworking and definitely not loyal
Slytherin: this is the only likely one - he's ambitious, looks out for no.1 and likes hanging around with the biggest kid in the yard.

So it was Slytherin or Gryffindor, really. He seems so Slytherin-ish, I wonder why he wasn't put there...

Peter may have been a lot braver in school than he is now.

Peter may have been a lot braver in school than he is now.

LOL, did he seem it? I think it more likely he'll prove his bravery later than that he used to be brave.

I believe Pettigrew is going to do something very brave and couragous in the future, proving himself a true Gryffindor. After all, the Sorting Hat put him in Gryffindor house, even though it seemed he would have been better suited for Slytherin once he had shown his true colors. There must be a reason Peter was put in there in the first place. Maybe the Sorting Hat is clairvoyant, and see a person's future when it looks inside his head.

there are so many threads about why so and so was in this and that house that it gets quite tiresome but still i post for the fun of it. Peter might have been suitable for griffindor at the time of sorting, maybe he met the borderline requirements for being in griffindor.

I think Peter Petigrew did have a chance to become a great wizard, a good wizard, but everyone is temped with the chance to become evil,

The sorting hat could make a mistake, or it could just work in strange ways,

It said harry would do great is slytherin but harry wanted to be in gryfindor, maybe peter was temped to sytherin but he wanted to be in gryfindor.

In would take a lot of corage the betray your best and only friends, and he got a lifetime of suffering and pain, maybe he regrets it, maybe he’s just a coward, I think he regrets it.

It’s all a matter of choices, which path you choose

if peter petigrew (wormtail) does prove himself it would prove that the sorting hatmade the right choice, but

are all gryfindors really good and ARE ALL SLYTHERINS REALLY BAD? it seems to be the trend they has to be someone who broke this, Peter. the sorting hat puts people in their houses for a reason, we have idea why, butt there is a reason. to all this.

we don't know much about his past so we don't know who he was at hogwarts he could have been brave, but something must have changed him.

i hope he turns good, it might not make up for everything he's done but hopfully he betrays voldemort and helps the order in some way. maybe i think this cause i'm a wormtail fan.

I'm guessing the sorting hat listened to him about wanting to be in gryffindor (like you said) or the sorting hat made a mistake. but its a good question for JK to consider answering in the 7th book.

also i think peter was indeed clever, he snuck around behind his friend's backs.

he seems brave cause you have to when you join voldemort he cuts off his own hand he is loyal, but indead to the wrong person/perple.

we don't know if he was smart and we don't know what he did back then.

the sorting hat could have made a mistake with harry putting him on gryfindor, like wormtail he beged to be put in a house, (maybe) the sorting hat listened to both of them, but after wormtail it seems the sorting hat would learn it's lesson.

but harry and wormtail are two very different people the sorting hat saw the difference between them and granted harry's request.

Maybe he asked the hat! Maybe he wanted so much to be in the same house with James, Sirius and Lupin that he didn’t care that he wouldn’t fit in. Before you say he didn’t know them maybe he was saved from some nasty slytherins by them.
I’m just trying to say that he wished it ( just like Harry , except that Harry said where he didn’t want to be put).