Book Two "Key" to Series?

Originally posted by dracofan
in a chat JK mention at the release of Goblet of Fire that Mcgonnagol is 70 years old. At that time Voldemort would be 67 years old. I figure there are 3 years separating them.

Mcgonnagol 70 years old in book 4
mcgonnagol 69 years old in book 3
Mcgonnagol 68 years old in book 2

68- 50 years since the chamber was opened by Tom riddle would make her 18. She could have possibly been a 7th year or had just left school the year before. Either way there were 3 years difference between them as tom Riddle was 15 when the chamber was opened.

Am I making sense.

riddle was a 7th yr when he opened the chamber, so she woulda been outta school

I thought he was a 5th year, just like Harry and Co. will be in book 5.

Someone who knows, speak up please.

To Crookshanks having a bigger role... Yes In book four when Harry and Ron were predicting there own death, it said that crookshanks looked at Ron and Harry like hermonie would if she knew they were doing this. I think possibley she could be like Mrs. Norris with Filch

I'm pretty sure after reading the 2nd book the umpteenth time that Riddle was in his fifth year when he opened the Chamber, I'm too tired to find it in the book.

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One thing that hasn't been mentioned at all (in this thread or the books): What is possessing the Anglia? I mean, let's be honest, that thing isn't acting normally in the 2nd book. What protected Harry and Ron from Aragog's minions? It seemed fairly clear that whatever it is wanted to get Harry and Ron into trouble (for being seen), and find out about the whomping willow. Is it one of the Mauraders? Perhaps Mr. Potter is controlling/possessing the Anglia while he knew Arthur (from working with him at the Ministry or from school)?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has there been any references to Arthur/Molly knowing Lily/James while they were still alive?

We know that James didn't need a well paying job because he inherited everything he owned from his dad. Perhaps he worked with Arthur and put a spell on the car on accident/purpose? Arthur's job doesn't pay all that well...

OK - that's my theory of "important events" from the second book.

Alright - On your marks... get set... shoot holes in my theory!

That's a good observation about the Anglia, Prongs. Arthur himself said never trust a magical item if you can't see where it keeps it's brains. We don't know how Arthur enchanted the car. Also, the forest itself may have had some influence on it. The forest is enchanted (I think), and who knows what lives there. The car may have "merged" with something else.

But it may act like some sort of pet, like the dog it was compared to, after the enchantments etc. It knew Ron was familiar and came to his rescue, even if it wouldn't stay around afterward. Besides, it's a great plot point.

I agree Sinistra with your about the forest - it's definately possible that the forest has some sort of impact on the Anglia. I also think that maybe the person that enchanted the car thought of the Forbidden forest as almost a haven. We see the car go into the willow, then immediately into the forest. Almost as if it didn't want to be seen by anyone at Hogwarts, and the car thinks of the forest as its home.

I like cbjedi idea about possibly something to do with Lockart. I hated Lockhart and dispised his character but it just seemed that to put somehting like that into a story and not use it as foreshadowing is not JK's style at all.

cbjedi i would like to hear the foreshadowing on lockhart if you could point me to it that would be great! another thing about the car is that ron would talk too it much like my dad did when i was a kid "come on old betsy you can do it, a few more miles" did author know he made it think for it self?

Hi, I'm new here.

I don't have time to read through 4+ pages of messages. So I'll just say it here.

I agree with Morgoth that the house elves will be a pivotal force in the future books. I don't believe that Dobby will die anytime soon. I'm hoping that the house elves will have their own rebellion...led by Hermione!!! Or at least aided by Hermione.

I'm going to talk about the film now, so if you haven't seen it, stop reading this message.

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I don't have time to check with the book right now, but in the film, what i found startling was the end when Dobby blasts Lucius Malfoy. Malfoy actually looked scared, and of Dobby!!! It seems like the house elves are much more than just cute little servants. Wait till they all get free!

Perdita, proud supporter of S.P.E.W.

Ahh well they will be aq pivitol role just becuase that masters tells them to fight.

Snitch I spew over S.P.E.W.

I just saw the CoS movie again earlier and since JKR said that there were alot of clues in book 2 about future books I noticed something. At the end Lucius Malfoy (after Harry having freed Dobby) tells Harry that his parents we just like him and that he (Harry) would "meet the same sticky end... mark my words" or something like that. So does that mean that Harry's going to eventually die in book 7? I really hope not!!!!! :'(

i think this was just a threat, plain and simple. i mean, do u think he would have scared harry if he said, "you're gonna live happily ever after...mark my words"? no. of course not. this was just to show his distaste for harry

True. But it is a possibility?

What are your thoughts on the whole Harry living/not living thing anyway?

he'll live. look at dumbledore, he kicked voldemort's a*** plenty of times too (actually, how many times was it really?) and he's still alive. how come dumbledore's like 1000 years old? d'you reckon harry can do that too? YEAH! how old do wizards/witches live up to?

I don't know how old they can live up to but they have a longer life-span then muggles, JKR said that. Also she said Dumbledore's around 150 so? Also you're forgetting that Dumbledore's the greatest wizard of their time, and Harry's "just Harry". It's very possible that he can die and JKR leaves more and more hints that he will. Although I'm just praying that they're to torture us into thinking he's gonna die when actually he isn't. *flies to Edinburgh and begs JKR not to kill Harry*

HEHE, Dumbledore hasn't kicked Voldemort A*** as you have said ben folds. We don't even know if he had kicked his A***. All we know is that Voldie is scared of him, maybe because Dumbledore had seen right through him in his early years and maybe if he gets too near Dumbledore, Dumbledore will see what he is plotting a stop it!!

If you already seen CoS in movie theaters, and want to analyze it closely before it finally comes out on DVD - just download the cam rip off the internet.

Quality is poor - but you can still look through it at leisure.

Learn how f-serve's work on irc ( www.mirc.com )
and go to

irc.criten.net #tmd-moviez

@find Harry Potter


NOTE: Not trying to promote warez here. Just trying to help people who want to look at the movie more closely before it comes out on DVD.

I think that the Basislisk's attack on Mrs Norris is more important than we think. Why would Voldemort want to kill a cat? You would say, because she is Filch's cat and he is a squib. But then why not kill Filch himself, why bother killing his cat? And why call a cat MRS? Could she be an animagi?

It had been stated that house elves have powerful magic. They are enslaved, and while enslaved they are bound to their family. But Dobby was freed, and Lucius and co. were pretty nasty to Dobby while he was bound to them. Lucius should be a bit afraid. But he may have forgotten just how powerful Dobby was. Dobby knocked Lucius on his butt with just a snap of his fingers. No wand or anything. And Lucius was winding up for an Avada Kedavra. That's a lot of energy, and Dobby just cut through it. Lucius now has another very powerful enemy (In Lucius' eyes, he's a "you're either with me or against me" type of guy.). And he has openly declared himself against Harry Potter, though that's no big surprise. But it is open, Lucius directly threatened Harry. Before he pretended to be polite. Now, no more politeness.

I am still thinking about Hagrid in Knockturn alley. Why was he there? Surely wizarding gardening stores exist outside Knockturn alley. Maybe Hagrid was looking for another dangerous pet. After all, that is the place you would go when attempting to trade in restricted dangerous creatures. Not the average pet shop. But he found Harry there, and Harry found Hagrid there, too. Hagrid seemed a bit nervous about it, or am I reading things into it?

I've said for a long time now that the house-elves magical abilities will come to play an important part in the story. And I've quoted the end of books two where Dobby settles Lucius' dust as a reason that Lucius will try to pay back Harry as well as Dobby. I think it's possible the house-elves will form a network of information that will help Dobby save Harry.

Originally posted by Sinistra
Hagrid seemed a bit nervous about it, or am I reading things into it? I noticed that he looked a bit nervous in the movie, but I didn't get that feeling when I read the book. I just kept reading on my merry way without thinking of it twice. Perhaps I need to reread it.

Though it makes me wonder why they made Hagrid nervous in the movie. I wonder if Rowling is trying to cast doubt on Hagrid's character?

In reading the book, I never thought Hagrid was nervous about being in Knockturn Alley. However I am not sure if I believe that he was there just to look for flesh eating slugs to protect the school cabbages. On the other hand, that does seem right up Hagrids alley (hmmm....new wizarding place? Hagrids Alley? :wow: ) to use dangerous slugs because who would want flesh eating slugs in a garden. Imagine you go out there to weed and one latches on to you! I don't know that flesh eating slugs would be sold at a regular wizard garden store. I still think that may not be all Hagrid was up to in Knockturn Alley.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said here, so won't repeat, except perhaps to emphathise a bit, and add my own bit:

The sorting hat says Harry would've done well in Slytherin, but Harry pulls it off his head before it gets done with what it was saying....What would it have had to say, if allowed to finish??

Dumbledore agrees there are many similarities between Harry & Vol/Tom Riddle. Appearance between H & V, but also James, H's dad. But the similarities go a Lot deeper between H & V, due to upbringing.

Harry himself seems tro recognize Tom Riddle/Vol somewhere from childhood, when he was very young....the only place could be from when he was still with his parents, under 1 year old.

DD says that the Main difference between Harry & Vol. is his Choices....that's a frightening or comforting thought, depending where you stand.

JKR does say that Harry will Not be tempted to the dark side, nor is he Related to Vol...she made some sort of comment along the line of "this isn't Star Wars".

Harry made Dobby promise that he wouldn't try to save Harry's life again...
Lucius M clearly has a score to settle with both Harry and Dobby
now. Seems a bit more afraid of Dobby, tho'.

Ginny taken over by Vol...does he have some sway over her, still, or is there a connection, since she Almost died, just as Harry has a connection to Vol. through the curse that didn't kill? Has G now also been gifted w/Parseltongue? Remember both GW & HP have had experience w/Vol, and both had similar rxns. to the Dementors...
aggh I had another good 1 or 2, but they have left my mind as I wrote this. Oh, for a good pensieve....

Ah, here: Fawkes seeming to prefer Harry...Phoenix keep being reborn from their ashes, for how long ???immortal??? and few wizards can tame them. We are repeatedly shown DD is getting old/frail...Perhaps Phoenix choose their next 'owner'? F certainly shows up quite a lot around H. And both H & V have wands w/F's tail feathers as their core...brothers in magic, so to speak.

H got his gift of parseltongue from V. V used to be human, but underwent transformations that made him non-human, described to appear snakeish in his facial features, anyway. V then was reincarnated through partly, H's blood, and has a living body through his servant, who is in life-debt to H and his father's bone, whom he had committed patricide against. V's new body is not an immortal one. CAN Harry influence Vold. using Parseltongue---just doesn't know it yet???

I am amazed. Where have you been? Great and organized thinking.

Thanks, JoFaye!! Kind of you to say!!
I'm really busy, so don't get on much...just discovered this site, but about to go back into the real world to work, so probably be back again in another 10 days or so. Then gone for months at a time. Sorry. But, I do LOVE this site!!! It's got lots of people with really great creative thoughts to add to the mix, as we wait...... (sigh)...

Aggg. That was what it was: Maybe nothing tho'...red herring? The first thing Vol has Ginny do is kill the roosters, since a rooster's crow is fatal to a basilisk. Rooster's crow, weasel(ly), Vol so snakish now? ...hmmm.

Oh, and I just saw that Bk 5 (Phoenix) has an ISBN # 0747551006
Does that mean what I hope it does?? That It's done & copyrighted, and into the printers for prep?? That would be soo great!!

Unfortunately no. Most publishers have a list of ISBN numbers, and when they know a book is coming, they assign an ISBN to it. This can be just after the manuscript is accepted, or may wait until the final draft is submitted, but it usually is well before the final draft is done. Somewhere around first draft time, and JKR has done the first draft thing. Remember the two chapters that had to be totally rewritten? They need that ISBN well before final draft. So it doesn't mean anything in terms of hurrying Book 5. Sorry, but it's better to know the facts.

(Sorry, it's off-topic, but is answering the question.)

<sigh> :( Thanks for the OT info. I had no idea that was how publishing worked...Still, I Wish she had such good news for us, Soon!!!!!! Given all the time she's spent, and her announcements, I can't imagine there needing to be much, if any, re-writing left!

I don't know what "key" things have happened in book two, but i saw the movie and i think that us finding out that Hagrid let out the Spiders in book two will become important later on. Ah, sorry i couldnt figure out the name of the spiders right now, my bain isn't functioning properly, but i know it starts with an A, i think. Well, yeah thats what i think that the "A" Spider will be important in book 5

I don't really know how important Aragog and his wife and kids will be later on. Unless it is to help get all the creatures of the forest in a band against the dark side. I think Aragog would probably make a good leader of that group. (hmmm... maybe the Order of the Phoenix is all the dark forest creatures..... nah I doubt that)

Yeah, they make such a big thing about Hagrid being good, but he loves making friends with all the 5* monsters, maybe it will be him that brings them in on DD's side against Vol. That'd be cool!!

Some of you don't realise that there is a whole COLONY of Acromantulas in the Forbidden Forest. Now, if Hagrid can persuade them to co-operate with Hogwarts, then they have thousands of M.O.M. XXXXX classification creatures on their side! Death Eaters = :'( Hogwarts = :elaugh:

People knew about the the acro's. They are, after all, the progeny of his pet, that he saved and was expelled for in CoS---And much was made of that in both the book & the movie! The only part that folks may not have known was the formal name & classification per the Magical Beasts book.

In any case, given his proclivity for making friends w/monsters--- and breeding monsters illegally, I might add--- I think he'd make the Best, most convincing person to bring them over to DD's side, away from Voldie!!

Yeah, that would be some fight to see but not be in, that's for sure!!

It would be sooo cool if it was the mudbloods, '2nd class' beings and 'monsters' who were instrumental in fighting off Voldie...that would sure make the pro human/wizard only and "pureblood" racists eat crow, lifelong!!

I've always thought the centaur that helped Harry (Bane?) would lead the animals and creatures of the forest against Volde. He seemed prepared to do so.

hmmmm.... I think the Weasley's car will show up again - it may save Harry's life again; harry being a parseltongue, the sorting hat and the sword

I'm new here, but posting regardless...

Someone mentioned the hand of Glory, but I notice something else.

Harry has a thing for *hands*. In the CoS Film. Watch it and you'll see. First there's the hand of glory, then Hermione's petrified and he's at her hand, then Ginny's hand in the chamber again. It seems to be his way of examining... I can't check the book for correlation of my ideas because some friend has my copy at the mo, but could any of you be any help?

What do you think? Am I imagining things? Or does Harry look at hands a lot? Help!

Essbee
(newest member with first post!!!)

I have a number of problems with book two being the 'key' to the series, it seems so shallow in comparison to the others. Book one sets a lot of things up, as does book four really. Book three is a great story and actually reveals a lot rather than foreshadows. With Book Two JKR seems to be suffering from '2nd album syndrome' and the book, although good on its own merits, has a rather different feel compared to the other three.

The Parseltongue thing was really set up in book one, the rest of the stuff about the Hat/Sword and Fawkes is really obvious and doesn't tell us much beyond what was written. The casual throwaway sentences, like the one that introduced Sirius Black, really don't seem to be there. Anyone else feel this way?

I'm ultimately wrong anyway as JKR is the boss.

I don't know if it is the key, as such, but J.K says there is a lot of importatnt information that she worked very hard to disguise. My own ideas are the Defense Against the Dark Arts League and the importance of the power the house elves have. Just some pet theories.

Something that she put in this book and which has already been "fulfilled" (although it may continue to play a role throughout the series) is the Polyjuice Potion. This seemed so natural, but while it filled pages and fleshed out the story, it was not, in the end, of very much importance--nothing was found out. Dobby entered the picture and seemed natural, but really served very little purpose. House-elves played a large role in the fourth book and it appears they will continue to be important. I think we really need to look for the big things in the book--the things that seem to be part of the story, but which ultimately do not serve a very substantial purpose.

Originally posted by daniel4hp
I think we really need to look for the big things in the book--the things that seem to be part of the story, but which ultimately do not serve a very substantial purpose.

My thoughts precisely [couldn't have put it better], we need to look at things that appear to be 'filler'. A lot of people have taken that hint and looked at the scenes in Knockturn Alley, there is a lot of unnecessary stuff going on there. We, for the first time, are given some proof that the Malfoy's are really bad. But as most people have spotted already, the business with The Hand Of Glory, why is it mentioned? There isn't really enough to go on on the Hagrid front, except that perhaps he's there to cast doubt upon his character and make him look bad later in the book. But even then that's not enough. There's the duelling and JKR does say at the end of the book that Harry was getting quite good at blocking curses - maybe that's relevant. I really don't know where to start and that's where I have the problem. You really can take the other books to pieces but this one is a tough cookie.....

We're going for the obvious and missing something huge in the process.

Moaning Myrtle served a purpose (she was killed by Riddle) but perhaps there's more to her... we can pick the Knockturn Alley scene to bits but perhaps there's something bigger going on there... the idea of Knockturn Alley? A place that is so close to Diagon Alley and yet so different? One thing we can remember is that everything that is important appeared in the movie--JK said so. That means we can pretty much cross of the raids/Malfoy's living room floor part of Knockturn Alley, and while the Hand of Glory did apparently appear in the movie (questionable, but possible) that is most likely filler. However, they did include Knockturn Alley, even though nothing substantial appears to happen (they cut the whole Malfoy part)...

I've not seen the film yet so I can't possibly comment on any of that. [I'd love to but I really, really, really can't right now] Those are some good points and definitely food for thought. I especially like the idea about evil places being so close to good ones. The idea crops back up again while at Hogwarts. Who'd have thought of something as evil as the Cos hidden away a school as good as Hogwarts. Maybe that's the key - things aren't always as wholesome as they seem. [Can think of an immediate counter argument]

What's the counter argument? It is true that the CoS is right inside Hogwarts... that is in the same book and reinforces the idea of Knockturn Alley being so close to Diagon Alley, as well as more about the tention between Slytherin and the other founders. Not that I see how this will be important, but it does seem to be a theme in the book...

Well, I wouldn't say they weren't as wholesome as they seem...Just that maybe Good & Bad may sometimes be separated by only a bit.....
Wow!!! There's some Great new food for thought on the last page 1/2 that I simply really had never thought of before.!!Mmmm, I Like this!!! Gotta go now, but will reply w/ feedback later!!

Maybe Harrys the heir of Godric gryffindor, and did you now that the first three lettlers of godric is god, i found that out today.

TO add to The Hand Theme:
Scabbers bit Crabbe's hand.
Pettigrew cut off one of his own fingers to provide an alibi to escape death.
Scabbers, therefore was recognized by Sirius when he saw one of the rat/animagus toes on it's front paw was missing.
That was the Hand that Pettigrew cut off & gave to be "Flesh of the Servant" to Voldie.
Voldie gives Petti a new silver Hand.
Thise come to just the top of my mind. I'm sure there are many more!!!
Yup....a very good idea.
NOW, What Does It Mean?!?!!? Brain stuck, too tired, can't think!!

The heir of Gryffindor is one of the more followed ideas. Also, that he may be linked to both Slytherin & Gryffindor (sp)...but I don't buy that one. But I DO wonder about if there is any link between Lily (dark red hair) and the redheaded Weasleys (I think we have one muggle in the family...he's an accountant" or something like that??

Yeah, and the first 3 letters of witch are wit. So?? All I'm saying is, I don't think that means anything.
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." --Sigmund Freud

Since Fawkes was first introduced in book 2, he could be one of those "key things", both Harry and Voldemort's wand's core came from him, or he could even be Gryffindor's pet!
I had a crazy theory once that Fawkes could be Gryffindor as an Animagus, my friends really laughed at that!!!

If Harry ended up being the Heir to Gryffindor, it would just be too much. He's already a huge celebrity and a powerful wizard for his age, but being the heir to one of the four fathers of Hogwards would be too much. My thinking is that people would know if he was the heir because that would mean that his father or mother was of blood descent. And if James or Lily were descendents of Godric then we would have found out this fact by know.

or atleast thats my thinking.

I'm with you fishy. I love HP, don't get me wrong, but have you noticed how everything revolves around him?? If he's going to stay a sympathetic character, he can't keep being everything, winning everything, and always being right. Which is why I really don't think he's the heir to gryffindor. It's probably ron.

ron? why would it be ron? thereis no evidence to support that assertion.

well, I just thought it would be ron since ron never gets anything. harry's the big school champ, and he gets the girl, and ron is dumb and left out. I feel bad for the guy, eating slugs and drooling over fluer while harry is lifted up on everybody's shoulders. Ron deserves something special, and I think JK is saving this just for him. Also, he has red hair, which i think is an important clue.

Red hair? All weasleys have red hair. I definately do not believe Ron will have any huge suprises in his back pocket. He already has shown his true face.

I've been thinking about the 'hand' stuff...Could have something to do with wands?

And, on another thought, in the film tiwce did I see them making a point out of the fact that Malfoy was evil because he could be. In Flourish and Blotts he tore a page out of one of the books (I don't suppose that he had a reason, if he did can someone tell me?) and then when they were doing the polyjuice thing he took a present from the table and nicked it. However he did ask Goyle (or was it Crabbe) if it was his first. So what is this showing us? Loyalty to his friends? Or that he likes being mean to everyone who isn't one of his friends?

OK, No idea waht relevance that gives to the plot, but it's a thought. They just jumped out at me when I was watching the film as strange.

I need to watch this film again!!!
And read the book!
Grrr....

Essbee.

Oh yeah... if you want another random theme, try socks. There's Dumbledore and wanting socks for christmas, Dobby being set free by a sock, Dobby giving Harry socks, Harry stuffing the sneakoscope into an old sock, (incidentally, could that be a plot device later? JK didn't draw a lot of attention to it in 3 or 4 and I would haev thought that she should've...) And Harry getting socks from the Dursleys for Christmas.

You can put the sneakoscope onto the list of 'things that didn't give as much to the plot as they should have'.

Also, to that list, other random things...
Millicent Bulstrode has a cat,
Crabbe and Golye have stupidy large appetites,
Dear Penelope and Percy?

OK, so maybe I'm being daft with those three...
But seriously, I mean it about the sneakoscope. I would have thought that it'd maybe foreshadow Peter a bit more, or have been some help around the fake Moody. But not. So, maybe a future use?

Harry being told he'd be a good Auror... perhaps?

I know that none of these are in book 2, so I'll have a think about some similar things that are.

Essbee.

Originally posted by daniel4hp
What's the counter argument?

Sorry I took so long to get back.

The counter argument is that the theme, how things aren't always as they appear, is a strong one in all the books and not really unique to CoS. That rather weakens the argument.

Originally posted by Essbee
Oh yeah... if you want another random theme, try socks...... JK didn't draw a lot of attention to it in 3 or 4

Actually JK did in book 3 & 4.

3. The sneak-a-scope was kept Uncle Vernon's sock.

4. Dobby gave Harry (red & green - another recurring theme) for Chrimbo & H, R & H bought Dobby socks in Hogsmeade shortly after the Second Task didn't they?

I meant that the sneakoscpoe didn't play as large a part in bks 3 and 4 as I might expect, not the socks. The socks are in fact a very recurring theme!

Essbee

Originally posted by Essbee
I meant that the sneakoscpoe didn't play as large a part in bks 3 and 4 as I might expect, not the socks.
Essbee

I only have one word to say. D'OH!

Something else that was brought up in book 2 that I haven't seen listed is... book 2 lets us see there migh tbe SECRET areas even the teachers don't know about wether its true or not.

It lets our imagination about hogwarts grow... what else could there be that we don't know??

What about that room they were in after the champs were chosen for the triwizard.. that was a room they hadn't been in very much..

Its all speculation till the book comes out.. which I hope is soon. =)

The room where the champions were chosen? You mean the little antichamber? I see very little magical in this, although I could be wrong. However, I think there is more to Hogwarts, and there are several things to suggest this in book 2 (secret areas, evil places in close proximity to good, ect.).

Originally posted by Myrddin
I only have one word to say. D'OH!

No problem. :)

Incidentally, I do agree about the secret rooms bit. What was Dumbledore saying about an enchanted room of chamber pots?

Another room we've visited only once - the prefects Bathroom. With the Mermaid in. Think her or the room will be significant in future books? Or the fact that Myrtle hangs around that bathroom as well as her girls bathroom on the second floor? I know that they're book 4things not book 2, but Myrtle is introduced in book two and anyway it just sprung into my head...

Essbee

how many paintings hide entrances?

theres hundreds of paintings and statues in the castle...
was there 1 tht harry hid behind or got mentioned in the book...
is this the answer?

The more I think on it the more I'm starting to think there's something fishy about Hagrid.

Let's go over what we know. Harry sees Hagrid in Knockturn Alley. If this were an isolated incident it wouldn't really be all that ****ing, but it doesn't end there. When Harry and Ron go to visit Hagrid, he answer's the door holding a crossbow. When they ask him why, he doesn't answer. He says this "'Nothin' ... nothin',' Hagrid muttered. 'I've bin expectin' ... doesn' matter ... Sit down ... I'll make tea ...'" Obviously he was waiting for someone, or something. Obviously that someone or something is dangerous, otherwise he wouldn't have answered the door armed. He acts nervous and distracted the whole time, when he goes to serve Harry and Ron tea he pours them nothing but hot water and he's described as looking out the windows nervously the whole time. Hagrid is then arrested and sent to Azkaban. We're not told why, Fudge just says that 'Hagrid's record is against him'.

OK, now let's look at this a little deeper. Why would Hagrid answer the door not once but twice with his crossbow? And when Hagrid is asked why he did so he never gave a straight answer. If he was worried that the monster inside the CoS was going to attack him he probably would have said so. And why was Hagrid sent to Azkaban? Firstly, they had to have known that Hagrid didn't open the CoS. He would have told them that the creature that he had been hiding was an acromantula. They would have known that an acromantula wouldn't have been capable of killing Myrtle considering the way she died. Certainly Hagrid was tossed out of Hogwarts and his wand snapped in half because he was raising a dangerous creature like an acromantula but might there have been something else? We don't know that Fudge is sending him to Azkaban because they think he is the last person to open the chamber. We assume that's why, but could there be something else? Because logically those who know the full story of what happened the night Riddle caught Hagrid with that monster would have known that Hagrid could not have been the one controlling the monster inside the COS, assuming that Hagrid told them that what he was raising was an Acromantula. And I think that he did. Why? Because Hagrid would have wanted to prove Aragog's innocence, and it would have been clear that an Acromantula couldn't have been the source of the attacks. My theory is that Dippet used Hagrid as a scapegoat, and that nobody really made much fuss over it because Hagrid was already guilty of raising an Acromantula, and probably wasn't a model student. We know that he was sneaking off into the forest to wrestle with trolls. And again what was he expecting the night that he was arrested and taken to Azkaban?

So is it possible that there's something to Hagrid we don't know about yet? I don't think he's evil, otherwise why would Dumbledore trust him so much? But what was he doing in Knockturn Alley? What was he expecting the night that he was arrested? And why was he arrested? Could the real reason for his arrest have something to do with all this? Also this all ties in with Voldemort and the Chamber of Secrets somehow.

Certainly, things could appear exactly as they are. Hagrid might have just been buying flesh eating slug repellent. The reason he answered the door with his crossbow and was acting so scared/nervous might have just been because he was scared of the monster in the Chamber of Secrets. And it's possible that he never told anyone that the monster Riddle caught him with was an Acromantula, and it's possible that Fudge did send him away because he thought that Hagrid might be opening the CoS again. But isn't it possible there's more to it than just that? There seems to be a few unanswered questions here.

OOOH, good stuff cbjedi! I have always thought Hagrid's excuse was dodgy. There have to be magical gardening stores outside Knockturn alley. And that crossbow wasn't fully explained.

Also remember about the skroots. Hagrid broke several big laws by breeding those dangerous creatures without a license. And on school grounds, no less! C'mon, doesn't anyone else think that's just a bit weird? Anyhow, I guess Hagrid has had a few more scrapes with the magical law people than we know of. He is scared of breaking the law. There is probably a lot more to Hagrid than we all know yet, and maybe that's what gets him killed (if it is him). He sits and gambles with strangers who don't even show their faces. That's not safe behavior. So maybe now we can all speculate about Hagrid's past. McGonnagall is suspicious of Dumbledore trusting Hagrid with Harry, she may know a few things, also.

Well I'm not trying to say that Hagrid is evil. I'm just trying to say that there was something going on both when Riddle was opening the COS and when Ginny was opening the COS with Hagrid that we haven't been told about yet. I don't think he's a traitor, or that he'd harm Harry in anyway. But I do think there's more there than meets the eye...

Great observasion cbjedi, i never thought of that.

It may also be significant that the COS movie ends with it's focus on Hagrid. I would have probably finised it by after we leave the castle looking up at the stars and the constallation of Sirius, so perhaps there is a point that JKR is trying to make?

Hmm... good point. Perhaps Dumbledore trusts him so much now because he knows that he is a good person inside and maybe tried to give his life for him once?

One thing that's always bugged me about Hagrid his not Dumbledore's trust of him, but Hagrid's complete devotion to Dumbledore. Yeah, so he let Hagrid stay on as gamekeeper after he had his wand snapped, but is that really such a big thing? Someone like Hagrid could've found a living elsewhere, or gone abroad to a school of Witchcraft and Wizardry there or something. Durmstrang would have had him, I'm sure, especially if he'd been excluded on the grounds of suspected Dark magic. So that would suggest to me that whatever caused the trust between Dumbledore and Hagrid actually started way before he got excluded from Hogwarts.

Here's my thought - is it something to do with his dad? We know that his mom died/disappeared/whatever, and left his Dad with Hagrid. Maybe Dumbledore took Hagrid in after his Dad died? Hagrid says that he never lived to see him excluded, so it would fit. Then Dumbledore would have had a whole year of looking after Hagrid to know that he was a good person, etc, etc, etc, and it would explain a little bit more why Hagrid feels so totally devoted to Dumbledore.

What do you think?

Essbee

Good point. Besides we have to assume he couldn't stay at the castle during summer break. They wouldn't let Tom Riddle and they won't let Harry.

I never meant to imply Hagrid was evil, just a bit reckless, sometimes doesn't think things through and not totally safe in his actions.

I also think there is more between Dumbledore and Hagrid than we have been told so far. Like where did Hagrid stay those summers after his dad died, and before he was expelled? Also, that's a big loss for a child, and it sounds like Hagrid has no other relatives (sounds a bit like Tom). And Hagrid certainly couldn't spend his summers in a muggle orphanage. He's half-giant and it just wouldn't work. Maybe Dumbledore acted as a foster parent to Hagrid. There has to be some sort of wizarding social services for orphaned wizarding children.

All good points. Perhaps there was something about his dad, or the way he died. I don't believe we were ever told how Hagrid's dad died, or were we?

You're right - we weren't told (at least I think not). Although I got the impression it was from an illness of sorts. Mind you, that's strange in itself, I was under the impression that Wizards didn't get ill in the same way that muggles do. Perhaps it wasn't a natural illness.

Not that I remember, cb. I've wondered a lot about his mother.

I really hope #5 is VERRRRRRRRY long on explanations.

Don't we all JoFaye!

Yes, you have to wonder where Hagrid's mother is in all this. Perhaps she ties into all this as well.

I'm assuming that is where Hagrid and Olympia were going to go over the summer. (To talk to the giants) And I've been wondering for years if he will see his mother there.

Wasn't his mother Fridwulfa, the scariest Giant out there? If so then she'll either be ruling the giants or they'd have had her killed, I should imagine. Unless she's run off on her own, of course...

Anything is possible and J.K. is boss. I just wish she'd get in touch with her faithful employees via book #5.

<sigh> you're not kidding...

I've just been to see the film again (oh dear, how sad, never mind) and I noticed a something that might be worth mentioning.

The Weasley Family clock.

Yup, that clock that sits in their living room and tells you where all the members of the family are. Now, it was mentioned in a different place in the film to the book and it was completely unnecerssary to the plot, so I think that it'll be important.

Why?

Well, it's got the ability to know where people are at any one time, to a given number of places (it showed Fred, George and Ron as 'lost' when they rescued Harry) so I reckon that they'll use this somehow. Or maybe Harry will be introduced to some other new technology (we know that most of what the Weasleys own is out-of-date) that will do a similar thing - a sort of wizarding GPS system.

Am I mad, or is there some credit to what I say?

It would be cool if Harry were added to the clock!

The way he and Hermione are becoming more and more like family I am sure they will both be added. :)

Esp since, with Harry being so hated by the DE's & Vollie, and she & Ron hang out with him so much, they would be targets along with him. Being muggles, her parents wouldn't be able to do much to protect her, but eht Weasley clan could.

When JKR announced that CoS was "key" to series, it affirmed my belief that Harry is Godric's heir.

In book 2, we learn:
Only a "true" gryffindor could have pulled out that sword."
Voldemort thinks Harry is his past, present and future.
The Pureblood vs. mudblood vs. halfblood is also introduced.

At the end of the movie, when Hermione and Ron don't hug, because they are too embarassed to hug someone they like!
(well, thats the meaning I interperate, and although yours may be different, that scene definately counts.)

But the important stuff in the film is stuff that's in the book *and* the film. Not just one of them. So that scene, though it might have relvance (i'm hedging my bets here!) isn't what JK was reffering to.

Jk rowling is a great writer because she hides details in her books. For example Mrs. Figg is a witch! I never knew that until i read an interview with Jk.

I'd kinda guessed about Mrs Figg, but only after I re-read PS after reading GoF...

Something else I just realised - in the flashback in the film, the black and white bit, Dumbledore isn't wearing glasses.

I know this sounds very silly, but could that be relevant? I know he's fifty years older when Harry knows him, but he's still an old man in the flashback. I might expect him still to be wearing them...

Is he wearing glasses in the flashback in the book? I can't check myself because I still haven't got my copy back from whom I lent it to... Could someone check for me?

Thanks muchly!

PS Sorry for the doublepost, I couldn't get the edit button to work.

DD is 150 as Harry knows him and 100 when he was teaching Tom Riddle/Voldemort.

Here's my guess:

Mcgonagall blowing her nose when Harry said that he and Ron were going to see Hermione. Maybe McGonagall remembered something from her younger years ... James and Lily perhaps?

oooo i just remembered something!! the "new technology" that JKR reffers to in one of her interviews saying that wizards never need to use the internet- they use something different. i know what it is! it was mentioned in the goblet of fire- page 391. it's called the WWN- wizarding sireless network- harry said that that's where most people heard of the weird sisters. anyone agree that this will come into play in the next book?

That's a good thought about the WWN, but I just assumed that the WWN was a radio station, you know 'I heard it on the wireless'. (Not sireless! lol)

But it could be the wizarding internet I guess... Still, that's not from book two, so there's something else out there as well, obviously.

Prof McGonagoll sniffing? Well, I guess that depends on whether you're a Harry and Hermione fan or not...

'lo people!
i remember from an interview, someone asked if wizards use the internet. J.K said they don't need to use the internet, they have their own internet type of thing that we will learn later. Wonder what it could be...:??:

Okay, i don't get one thing, is Harry a half blood? coz muggleborns are considered muggles from a wizards point of view. Harry can't be a pureblood, because his grandparents [lilly's parents] were muggles and i recall Tom saying, "both half bloods, orphans..." I dunno, what do ya think? :banghead:

don't you think the hug in the movie was kinda...ovedone? I don't mind h/hr but i don't think that meant anything. I wouldn't hug my crush, but i would hug some other guy. :love:

Also the sorting hat scene in the second movie, in DD office, it seems kinda obvious that it will have to do with something in the future. "it's the choices we make"

I was thinking, maybe when the basilisk sunk a fang into harry it might leave something like a sorta mark that will effect harry in the future. Harry made Dobby promise that he wouldn't try to save save harry's life, so when he actually is in danger, dobby won't be able to save him, knowing how loyal house elves are, so he would keep his word. :angel:

If J.K realeased a book every year, we would have finished the series this year but thats not the case... totally evil of her :devil:

Any news on booke five? I'm dying to read it!!! i really REALLY hope it will come out this year. Why the hell did it take her nearly THREE years to write one book, she could have written three more books already.

'till next time...
Zara [who is itching to read OotP like the other fans]:cool:

P.S: How do you get Avatars? I've tried but it say the administrator had disabled them, do i need a certain number of post to get one lie fiction alley?

You can only have an Avatar when you're in the thrid year, ie have more than 300 posts and have been a member 3 months or more. Didn't you read the announcement? ;)

As for book five, hopefully the beggining of July. That's the latest from Bloomsbury. But it really depends how fast JK can do her editorial re-writes.

The thing with Dobby... hmm, good point. I wonder how much of a sense of humour Houses Elves have?

I just read in the leaky cauldron.com about a JKR interview that mentioned that prof. Trelawny's first prediction was very important. Does anyone know what that was? I leant my book to a friend and have yet to get it back. Please help!

I don't think Dumbledore said. he only said that the one Harry witness now brought up her predictions (correct) to two. He never said. I bet it has to do with voldie going after the Potters and thats how Dumbledore got to Harry before the Ministry of Magic.

Dumbledore never said what it was, just that it was the second thing she'd got right.

It could be something really important, or perhaps it would be something that they didn't realise until after it had happened (like there will be a dark lord or something).

Or, it could be that Dumbledore wouldn't get any socks for christmas again. ;)

I have a feeling that whatever it was, it was an important revelation. Just keeping with the subject matter that Prof. Dumbledore was talking about at the time he mentioned it. Also, I wondered if that first prediction wasn't why Prof. Dumbledore had her at Hogwarts. Just in case lightening struck twice, he would have advance notice.

Is one of the seemingly insignificant things about CoS a room? Or am I mixing up with another thread/hint/whatever?

Well, anyway...

When Harry goes into Riddle's diary and sees Hagrid release Aragog, the room in which Riddle waits for Hagrid is the same dungeon where Harry has Potions class. Significant? I don't see why...but then why does she mention it? Why doesn't Riddle wait for Hagrid in just any old dungeon?

Just my two cents.

I've been reading through alot of the old posts and something struck me as very interesting...someone suggested that Fawkes may choose who will be the next heir of Gryffindor by becoming their "pet" (Dumbledore now, Harry in the Future, Fawkes originally Godric's at the founding of Hogwarts)...why? because gryffindor favored skill over pureblood and just b/c you were related by blood you might not have the skill and bravery so valued by Godric, perhaps fawkes chooses the Heir of Gryffindor based on the wizard who most fits the qualities of Godric...similarly, Salazaar Slytherin favored pure blood, so his heir would be chosen or rather determined by blood rather than skill...This could be their downfall b/c one of the main themes of the entire series is the power of what we make of ourselves as opposed to the power of what we are born with...and JKR certainly favors the ideal of self-determinism

That's a good point about the dungeon and the room that Riddle waits in. I'll have to re-read my copy for that one!

Basilisk beeing killed by a Weasel. Weasley! Could it be that Ron will be fighting the Dark in more ways than we know?

I wondered if Fawkes might not be Godric Gryffindor's pet at one time. He gets reborn periodically, and his red and gold plumage could have been the inspiration for Gryffindor's colors. Also, when the web of light surrounds Harry and Voldemort, Harry hears the Phoenix Song, even though Fawkes isn't there.

I think the Phoenix song though is because the core of both wands in the duel is a tail feather from a phoenix, in fact the tail feather of Fawkes as we learn later....I think thats certainly an interesting development though....I've never heard any discussion of the fact that Voldie got Fawkes' feather and so did Harry....I don't know what kind of thing could come from that...but its just an observation

I reckon that IF Harry is the descendant of Godric and Voldemort the descendant of Salazar, then Voldemort's attack on Harry may have rendered Harry as the most innately powerful sorcerer in the world as "Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry", leaving Harry as a hybrid of Gryffindor and Slytherin.

How did the diary work? It seems inconceivable that the mere memory Tom Riddle could maninpulate real objects - he seized Harry's wand in the chamber.

Number two has always confused me with the Voldemort/Tom Riddle, real/memory thing.

Don't bite me off! Sometimes they do this when I say this.

Could it be that The Weasley's are Slytherin(desendant - Ancestor clue JRK mentioned) related and the last in line (Ginny) would be the REAL Heir of Slytherin ( yes I know all 7 are on griffindor, we missed her sorting ceremony, remember!) We don't hear from anybody except Riddle himself that he is the Heir of slytherin. We just hear from Dumbledore he is the last desendant - ancestor of Salazar Slytherin (Remember, JKR did say to keep an eye on the word.)

If Salazar Slytherin built a chamber, Godric Grifindor must have done something back to him perhaps curse his family (remember this was mention by Dumbledore, that Malfoy father's, Lucius tried to do the governors familys) Perhaps this is why, the entrance of the chamber of Secrets is on a girls bathroom? Because he curse the REAL heir to be a girl, when usually they are boys. It will also explained why when the first time the chamber was open, somebody died(Moaning Mirtle "thick pearly spectales"). Riddle in fact couldn't control the basilik. Ginny could since SHE was a weasley and the real heir, she could control it!
It will also explain why the Malfoys hate so much the Weasley's besides for being poor.

Since clues are not put toguether I am mentioning the ones that bug me the most and YES I am just guessing. I have a theory but don't have an idea if I could be right!

He was a memory, but essentially a version of himself, like a holographic copy almost. And he could touch things and pick up Harry's wand because he was drawing strength from Ginny to do things like that.

As for Fawkes, I think that would make Fawkes a tad too old. However, I do believe that it would be possible for Fawkes to be a decendent of Godric's orignal phoenix. I do think that he had a pet phoenix - it's everything we've come to know about him!

Basilisk being killed by a weasel has always inspired thoughts of Peter Pettigrew in me. Peter is a very weaselish character, as opposed to Ron and the other Weasleys, who are not. And Peter owes Harry his life - it strikes me that Peter might betray Voldie or a DE in further books to help Harry, and it could prove fatal to Voldie.

Perhaps the key is the sword that Harry pulled from the Sorting Hat. Just think- an item of Gordic Gryffindor's might be pretty useful when it comes to defeating an heir of Slytherin. It's also rather important that Fawkes brought the hat to Harry, I think... maybe the Order of the Phoenix revolves around the sword somehow?

I also think that it was of some importantce that JKR mentioned it to us in the fourth book. When Harry is in Dumbledore's office, he notices the sword in a glass case. I don't think that it would be mentioned for no apparent reason and then just let go like that.

I think the Order of the Phoenix will revolve around Fawkes and Godric Gryffindor in some way.

Originally posted by Faye
Perhaps the key is the sword that Harry pulled from the Sorting Hat. Just think- an item of Gordic Gryffindor's might be pretty useful when it comes to defeating an heir of Slytherin. It's also rather important that Fawkes brought the hat to Harry, I think... maybe the Order of the Phoenix revolves around the sword somehow?

I also think that it was of some importantce that JKR mentioned it to us in the fourth book. When Harry is in Dumbledore's office, he notices the sword in a glass case. I don't think that it would be mentioned for no apparent reason and then just let go like that.

I agree. JK always drops subtle hints here and there, but we don't notice them 99% of the time.

Maybe Voldemort has some kind of family. Dumbledore did say that he was the last ancestor. Maybe he meant that Voldie has some family and he'd be their ancestor.

In the 2nd movie there are glances between Hermione and Draco they are looking at each other but quickly turn away! LOVE or could they be hatred? Im going towards love because they look away real quick! If it washate they would stare a bit differently. they look at each other when mcgonagol tells about the chamber of secrets

"you don't care about ginny", said ron, whose ears were now reddening. "you're just worried i'm going to mess up your chances at becoming head boy"
"five points from gryffindor!" percy said tersely, fingering his prefect badge. "And i hope that teaches you a lesson!"

could JK be foreshadowing that percy cares more about his status then his family? who knows, but JK did say that the second book is the key to the whole series.

Originally posted by HbAznKyootie
"you don't care about ginny", said ron, whose ears were now reddening. "you're just worried i'm going to mess up your chances at becoming head boy"
"five points from gryffindor!" percy said tersely, fingering his prefect badge. "And i hope that teaches you a lesson!"

could JK be foreshadowing that percy cares more about his status then his family? who knows, but JK did say that the second book is the key to the whole series.

Ron eluded to this later in the series as well - I think it was book 4, where he states that Percy cares more about his job than his family.

I need to go reread the books, the information is no longer fresh in my mind.

I agree that Fawkes and Gryffindor will be important, but I think Phoenix's live forever...I may be wrong, but don't they die in a ball of flames every so often and then reemerge from the ashes....if this is the case then they should last forever I guess

quote:
Originally posted by HbAznKyootie
"you don't care about ginny", said ron, whose ears were now reddening. "you're just worried i'm going to mess up your chances at becoming head boy"
"five points from gryffindor!" percy said tersely, fingering his prefect badge. "And i hope that teaches you a lesson!"

could JK be foreshadowing that percy cares more about his status then his family? who knows, but JK did say that the second book is the key to the whole series.


Ron eluded to this later in the series as well - I think it was book 4, where he states that Percy cares more about his job than his family.

I need to go reread the books, the information is no longer fresh in my mind.
__________________________________________________ __________

OH! THANK YOU!, THANK YOU!!

I was just thinking about that this morning. I am totally on stress that it would be Mrs. Weasley the one to die so I was running thru the books and I thought it was odd that it was mentioned once in book 2 and another one on book 4. It worries me because it gets said by Ron twice and I do believe he is in some way a seer.

Well i have just re read book 2 and i found this: When harry was going up to dumbledors office for the first time the was a GRIFFIN on his DOOR. Ya get it? Griffin-door, Griffindor! I just thought that it was a little bit funny. Plus I have always wondered why the griffindor mascot was a lion instead of--well a griffin, which would be a bit more logical.

Griffin - door? Never saw that before...

I think something major could happen to Colin Creevey and Ginny Weasley because Draco hates them both because of them loving Harry. And because of Colin being a muggleborn.

I would say that Fawkes could have been Godric's. After all he is red and gold - griffindor.

Maybe the Hand of Glory will make a reappearance. It was shown in the film and that sceen is extended on DVD.

Or maybe it was something realy subtle such as Hermiones speciality - Waterproof fire. Maybe that will get them out of a tricky situation. This is very unlikely.

And of course we are going to find out way more about the Sorting Hat.

More I would also say that Draco loves Hermy as in Borgin and Burkes Draco made a reference to Hermy as Lucius snapped at him mid way through Dracos sentence as if he had heard it a million times b4. Maybe draco cant stop thinking about hermy and Lucius catches on and wants her killed cos he doesnt want his son falling for a "mudblood".

Also Ron makes a reference to Percy being like Tom Riddle. Maybe this is some reference to Percy becoming evil.

Also when harry was down in the chamber of secrets, fawkes cames to him, but when harry got back to ron he said 'where did that bird come from' or something like that. So wouldn't fawkes have had to pass through the hole ron was making in the fallen rocks?? Or could there possibly be another entrance to the chamber?

Isn't Fawkes mentioned as coming out of the stone pillar?

Sounded like he used a form of magic to "apparate" there. (Yes, I know you can't apparate at Hogwarts, but this could be a specific sort of magic).

If you've read Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, you'd know that phoenixes could disappear and appear somewhere else at will, sort of like Apparition.

Originally posted by Huntingdon
(Yes, I know you can't apparate at Hogwarts, but this could be a specific sort of magic).

I think "specialist" types of magic, allow certain beings to apparate (or their magic's equivalent) at Hogwarts. Dobby disappears at will using his house-elf magic; presumably phoenixes, with similar powers, can do the same thing.

My take has always been this:

Human magic can only block human apparation. Phoenixes and house-elves have their own magic, which may surpass that of humans.

Then again, why don't the house-elves use it to break free..?

House elves don't break free because they believe they like it the way it is. When Winky bound Barty, Jr. to her, he could not escape.

Yeah, house elves think they like being enslaved... maybe they do... I'm not gonna turn into Hermione over it.

Harry's misgivings about whether he is in the right house or not are a big thing I think. I know that DD reassured him at the end by pointing to the sword, but I think that he needs something bigger to really persaude him. Perhaps he gets really distressed and that's why DD finally tells him that he's Gryffindor's heir? (if you believe the heir theory, obviously)

Gryffin-door. Wow. I can't believe I've never notived that before now! Which book does Harry mention seeing the Griffin? I'll *have* to read that again. Mind you, I guess we should have looked for it really, what with the Alleys. Do you think there will be another Alley in the future? Acksident Alley perhaps, where clumsy people shop? ;)

Did JKR say that material from the 2nd BOOK gives hints, or material from the 2nd MOVIE? Because in the scene when McGonagall is telling them about the CoS...it focuses on Hermione and Draco..the way they keep shooting glances at each other..but I may be mistaken..

Well, what JK actually said was that all the important stuff from book two made it into the film.

She also said at a seperate point in time that book to was a 'key' book in the series.

So, the important stuff that makes book two 'key' to the series is in the film. But it's gotta be in the film and the book.

So, you're looking for lines that stayed the same, events that happened in both though they seem inconsequential at the moment - that sort of thing.

On that line, I think Knockturn Alley will be important. After all, it wasn't necerssary for Harry to go down there. The warnings that Harry got and seeing Hagrid there could have been done without sending Harry there at all. So perhaps it turns out to be very important?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arabella_black
[B]More I would also say that Draco loves Hermy as in Borgin and Burkes Draco made a reference to Hermy as Lucius snapped at him mid way through Dracos sentence as if he had heard it a million times b4. Maybe draco cant stop thinking about hermy and Lucius catches on and wants her killed cos he doesnt want his son falling for a "mudblood".



I agree that Knockturn ally has a purpose. 1 of these 2 reasons.
1: It is an important place in book 5 like Harry is in one of the shops (J K does say harry sees a place he has seen befor but doesnt kno its importance yet) maybe he sees Wormtail there.

2: Maybe (from the quote) it proves Draco is in love with Hermione. You never know, i mean he makes fun of her all the time. He has to hide his feelings what would his father say! A mudblood? In book 4 he warns the trio several times about death eaters going after mudbloods. If Lucious knew that Draco liked Hermione he would wanna get rid of her. They would go after her! He may say it in a mean way but that's how he hides it. Another reason for his hating harry could be because he thinks Hermione will fall in love with him.

I dont kno! A suggestion! Maybe!

Hmm, you're a Hermionie/Draco fan then?

Good ideas, but...

Draco wasn't seen in Knockturn alley in the film. It's in the cutscenes, but it never actually made it to the full film. So it's not that.

But, I do agree that if Lucius thought that Draco was falling for a muggle-born (don't say 'mudblood', it's rude ;) ) then he'd want her out of the way.

Poor Her-me-own-ninny!

but the films are waaaaaay more simplified.

I compare the film fans and the book fans in different ways....

those that have read the books will se far more throries and connections than those in the films, purely because there isnt time and it would confuse people.

JK also mentions that the "book" has the key events, not the film!
It could be mentioned there and then in the film, but in the books it would make a more interesting connection.

My point - i dont think you can eliminate scenes in the book having no relevence just because they are not put in the film.

Hermione/Draco?

D'you think that Hermione will ever have feelings for Draco?

It would be strange for Hermy to love Draco after all the nasty things he has said about her. But i suppose that is just his immature way of getting his attention :)

The HP books are all very realistic. It just wouldn't be right for Hermione to have feelings for Draco out of the blue. Besides, it would tear up our little trio, wouldn't it?

i was thinking those half/man half/horse creatures (forgot their names =X) will have a much bigger part in the 5th book and so on. i mean they all KNEW that voldermort was coming back to power, atleast it seemed like it. i don't know. to me, they just seemed so interesting and know so much that it would be a waste to only have them in the 2nd book.

and also... quote from helhorns "JK also mentions that the "book" has the key events, not the film!" rowling herself has said that it was hard fitting all the key points into the movie without drawing too much attention to them. so that proves that the key points (atleast almost all of them) should be in the movie as well as the book.

Yeah, I think that the whole thing with the centaurs in the Forbidden Forest has an important place in the plot, too, thecrayon. Especially that last bit when one of them hopes that he has misread the stars. Something bad is going to happen, and they have seen it, I think. Also, maybe Harry's Divination teacher has seen the same thing in the stars that they have. Perhaps that was her first prediction?

i know this may sound stupid but i just have to share.
well, after rereading CoS for the nth time, i noticed that the arm that was pierced by the basilisk fang is the same arm where wormtail took blood from harry for voldemort's restoration potion.
wouldn't it be freaky to have blood running in your veins that came from an arm with direct contact from a venomous basilisk fang? wouldn't it make voldemort vulnerable?
:??:
but after taking all considerations, i realized that idea is stupid. i just realized that voldemort has a very creepy attachment with snakes and wouldn't it just give him a treat if the blood in his veins contain essence of a basilisk?! i draw to the conclusion that it might even strengthen his powers.
i know i shouldn't have posted that. it's darn too stupid but i just like to share.:youwhat:

thats not stupid, its a very interesting point.

it could be the downfall to voldie, as it has met fawkes healing powers, or it could make him even more powerful with the blood from a snake.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your ideas, however stupid you think they are, they're all worth some merit!

JK did say specifically that everything important made it into the film. So we can discount things from the book that didn't make it into the film.

If the venom from the Basilisk was still in his bloodstream then it would be in all of his bloodstream, not just the arm that it penetrated. So it wouldn't matter where Wormtail took the blood from. Also, I got the feeling that the Phoenix tears neutralised the poison. Dunno what implications that has though.

I've always thought it'd be really funny if Trelawny's first prediction turned out to be something daft, like 'it'll rain today' or something. I know that it's not, but it'd be very funny. And before you ask, I know that it's not because JK has said that the first prediction that Trelawny made was important somehow.

As for the centaurs, I've always thought that they must be coming back later at some point. They didn't really pay much significance to the plot in the first book, and it would be daft to go to all that trouble to introduce them and their powers then not use them again.

"Harry & Tom's reaction to Dumbledore's questions. Both denied there was something wrong or had something to offer the debate. It shows a part of Harry is unduly influenced by Voldemort's power."

But does it... I think Harry denied anything was wrong because, as Hermione said, hearing voices - even in the wizarding world - isn't normal. And i know plenty of people that wouldn't admit things to teachers - however much you trust the teacher - even when you do know the thing is not that terrible.

Harry & Tom's reaction to Dumbledore's questions. Both denied there was something wrong or had something to offer the debate. It shows a part of Harry is unduly influenced by Voldemort's power.

But does it... I think Harry denied anything was wrong because, as Hermione said, hearing voices - even in the wizarding world - isn't normal. And i know plenty of people that wouldn't admit things to teachers - however much you trust the teacher - even when you do know the thing is not that terrible.

awww. you guys are so nice! thanks for appreciating it all the same. :D

We aim to please. :)

Ok i remember in book 1(i know this is a book 2 forum but still...)when harry dragged ron to the Mirror of Erised Ron saw himself as head boy!! that means that ron really has a secret desire to become head boy mabye, could have been possibly jealous of percy?? hmm...

Well, bubblesofdeath, this forum is not just for book two ...

I mentioned the Ron and the Mirror of Erised incident in the Book Five Predictions: Who Will Fall in Love with Whom thread. You could go there to find out more.

I don't know if someone told it before, but I don't feel much reading 12 pages...:sorry:

So... Tom Riddle said to Harry that after becoming stronger he manage to give Ginny something from himself. Maybe he gave her the ability to talk Parseltongue in order to open the Chamber of Secrets, and maybe this will play a role in book 5. Remember what JKR said: Ginny will play much of a role in book 5.

It hasn't been mentioned DarkRa - good idea!

I think Ron was jealous of Percy, until he realised what a jerk he can be.

He's more jealous of Bill and Charlie, who are cool and do well.

As for Ginny, yeah, that could be a point. She must have known it even subconsiously to teach open the chamber and that, so perhaps she could be made to remember.

I always wondered if Parseltongue was a language you could learn. I know most wizards wouldn't want to, but some like Dumbledore might. And the wizards with it in the past would have thought themselves superior and not wanted to share their talent, but Harry could teach others, perhaps Hermione and Ron and Sirius?

I don't think Ron begrudged his brothers their successes. He just felt you had to be a very big star, indeed, to shine when the stars around you were already glowing very brightly. He felt his accomplishments were dimmed by the fact 5 people had already done as well as he had.

I have a feeling Ron's potential will be shining brighter than theirs by the end of the series.

I agree JoFaye. I think that Ron is actually smarter than Harry, though Harry is more famous and better at quidditch. I also have read things about Ron being a seer or something in the future...

Whatever part he plays though, it's gotta be something big.

Essbee, why is Ron smarter than Harry? D'you think that Ron shoud at least have something Harry doesn't because he's always outshined?

DarkRa, good idea about Ginny and Parseltongue. However, I think that Tom Riddle spoke through Ginny when he possessed her. Therefore, I don't expect Ginny to remember how to speak parseltongue.

about ginny the parselmouth, yeah! good idea! ive been wondering for months now how did ginny open the chamber of secrets when only a parselmouth can open it. well, tom and harry managed to open it. they're both parselmouths. what about ginny eh? maybe she will discover she's also a parselmouth! ooh. nice.

I think the flesh-eating slug repellent has to be significant in some way simply because it was mentioned twice in the movie, once to do with cabbages and once to do with the mandrakes. It just sounded like the sort of line that would be the first thing you'd cut from a script, because it doesn't sound important. So why insert it twice?
I also think that the Mudblood theme will become more important with Hermione becoming endangered. It was foreshadowed in COS, then came up again in GOF, now Lucius Malfoy is Voldemort's faithful death eater once again. Doing something nasty to Hermione would be the perfect way to get at Harry.
I took the glances between Draco and Hermione to mean that she wasn't letting him intimidate her. But it would be a curious plot twist in the future if Draco and Harry both fell for Hermione. Unlikely but for all we know the same thing could have happened before with James, Lily and Snape.

I've also thought about the flesh-eating slug repellent a few times. Strange.

In the CoS movie, I took Lucius's cold stare at the Grangers as a sign that he might kill them in a future book. I think that Voldemort's return, the opening of the Chamber etc. was all carefully planned out. There's plenty of foreshadowing in CoS.

Lucius might try to kill the Grangers, but I don't think he'll manage it. You can't have two orphans in the trinity.

As for why I reckon Ron is smarter than Harry. Well, I do think that he should be better than Harry at something, but I also reckon that Harry just isn't as smart as Ron. It's Ron that comes up with the ideas of making things up for Divnination, and it's usually Ron that comes up with the jokes. Also, Harry has problems learning some spells whereas Ron doesn't.

As for the flesh-eating slug replellant, I reckon that there's something we don't kow about Hagrid yet. Perhaps he's chasing dark wizards for Dumbledore on the sly?

Hey guys about this thing that harrys arm that was hurt by the basilisk was the same one that wormtail used to take blood for voldemorts rebirth.Now I was thinking Godric Griffondoor's silver (I think it was silver) Sword was used to kill the basilisk.Wouldn't that leave Voldemort weak to an attack with the same sword .It would really be a great irony.
Chow

Essbee, why does the ability to make things up make you smart? Harry has trouble learning some spells while Ron doesn't? Some examples, please? Harry's the one who's learned the patronus charm; he mastered the summoning charm and the banishing charm (his cushion landed right on top of Hermione's) and many more spells. Ron can make up jokes, but isn't that called a sense of humor?

Good point, maybe Harry will be Gryffindor's heir, he will get the sword, and he will attack Voldemort with it, and Voldie will DIE(or at least get hurt).

I agree with killing Voldemort with the sword part, but I don't agree with Harry being the heir of Gryffindor.

Why don't you agree on Harry being the heir of Gryffindor?

The ability to make up things doesn't make a person smart, but the sign of a quick mind is someone who thinks outside of the box. I was under the impression that Ron got some spells quicker, but I can't actually remember any off the top of my head, so that could be a mis-conception of mine.

Perhaps I don't mean more intelligent in the way that Hermione is intelligent, but smarter in a different way. And as for jokes - well, if people can think of jokes that make other people laugh then for me they have a certain 'people' intelligence. To be smart at knowing people. Which isn't the same as being smart at knowing books, but just as important. And this is where Ron is better than Harry, I think, when he ignores his red-head temper...

Harry being the heir of Gryffindor is...well, the first thought that comes in mind. I've noticed that most of the time in JKR's books, the first thought that comes in mind usually doesn't happen.

Originally posted by Essbee
The ability to make up things doesn't make a person smart, but the sign of a quick mind is someone who thinks outside of the box. I was under the impression that Ron got some spells quicker, but I can't actually remember any off the top of my head, so that could be a mis-conception of mine.

Perhaps I don't mean more intelligent in the way that Hermione is intelligent, but smarter in a different way. And as for jokes - well, if people can think of jokes that make other people laugh then for me they have a certain 'people' intelligence. To be smart at knowing people. Which isn't the same as being smart at knowing books, but just as important. And this is where Ron is better than Harry, I think, when he ignores his red-head temper...

Harry shares Ron's ability to make things up. How many times has he gotten themselves out of trouble by making something up? Besides, making up ways for a person to die is very different from making up an excuse.

About the 'people' intelligence: isn't it called charisma? Yes, Ron is charismatic, maybe even more so than Harry, but that doesn't mean that Ron is smarter than Harry. Ron may be smart in a different way, but if you think about it, it doesn't rival Harry or Hermione's intelligence.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I have this feeling that the part where Harry ends up in Knockturn Alley will probably be very significant in upcoming books (as someone already mentioned earlier). Anyway, I was reading over the part when Mr. Malfoy was selling some items to Mr. Borgin, and I realized that the items that Mr. Malfoy was selling are going to have to end up being bought by someone else. This could be very dangerous, seeing as that J.K. Rowling has implied that these things belonged to Voldemort. It would be terrible if something like that were to fall into the wrong hands, like how Ginny ended up with Riddle's Diary. I doubt this has any significance, but I just thought I'd share it and see if anyone could think of any more ideas.

Ok, points to make.

Max - I give up. You are right, yes, I was really considering Charisma rather than intelligence I guess. I just really wanted Ron to be better than Harry at something!

Voldies stuff getting to others - you know, I'd never thought about it but you're right. It could be very dangerous indeed! Didn't Lucius say 'certain of these potions might make it appear...' I could be wrong about the quote though. So, what do those potions do? Must be pretty nasty. I mean people have swelling charms and potions to turn things into other things without suspicion, so they must be pretty nasty...

Harry begin Gryffindor's heir - well, it might have been obvious to you, but I never thought of it! I think it's just an idea that's been passed around so much on the forums that it seems old hat to us now. If book five had been released a month after book four and we hadn't had time to speculate then it wouldn't seem that predictable I don't think.

Originally posted by Snitch8130
Here is another one of my ginny things on the wall it said Enemys of the heir beware. Why would colin crevy be one along with the ghost and the cat??? none of them are mudbloods so why? hermonie was the first mudblood and the only one that fit the status of mudbloods. I still think ginny picked who was attacked!!!

I'm surprised no one has cought this before now. Colin Creevey is ost definately a mudblood. When he first speaks to Harry we find out that Colin's father is a milkman and that he didn't know that pictures moved. These are traits of a mudblood or muggleborn. Justin-Finch Fletchley also a definate mudblood. Remeber he was supposed to go to Eton. Now I'm American but even I know that's a prestigious school in England somewhere. I also know that it actually exists. Therefore not a School of Magic thus Justin = mudblood. The Cat cannot explain that. Nearly Headless Nick. It's possible he was a mudblood. We really don't know that much about him. Personally though I think that was a case of wrong place at the wrong time. Remeber Nick and Justin were found together.

Hey all :D

Remember when Tom Riddle was telling Harry how he used Ginny through the diary? He said that Ginny was pouring her most deepest secrets into that diary. Tom said it helped her to trust him better. To you think that maybe she wrote about the people who were petrified in the diary and then Tom had them petrified to gain her trust?? I can see Ginny having problems with all the people who were petrified. Filch's cat first, so that is was easier for her to not get caught. Then colin. Who knows? Maybe he got on Ginny's nerves. (He certainly got on my nerves!) Maybe she didn't like competing with him for Harry's attention? Justin Finch-fletchley thought Harry was bad. He accused harry of sicking the snake on him basically making much of the school scared of him. Maybe Ginny didn't like him for doing that to Harry, so Tom got rid of him too for her. Then, there is Hermione. If you were ginny, wouldn't you be jealous of the friendship she has with Harry? She might not come out and say that, but she would in a secret diary. That or she'd say what a close friend Hermione was to Harry and then Tom would use that information to get to Harry. Either way, I think Tom used Ginny's secrets to get the people she didn't like out of the way to gain her trust. Besides, with those people out of the way, wouldn't she get better access to Harry? In turn, she'd keep going back to Tom because she trusts him. He'd then get stronger and stonger. Sometimes emotions can make you do bad things without you realizing it. Anyway, just an observation. Thought I'd share my ideas and that this could be a big secret about Ginny later on revealed. Maybe her mind isn't as innocent as we think!

Cheers :smooch:

Remember when Tom Riddle was telling Harry how he used Ginny through the diary? He said that Ginny was pouring her most deepest secrets into that diary. Tom said it helped her to trust him better. To you think that maybe she wrote about the people who were petrified in the diary and then Tom had them petrified to gain her trust?? I can see Ginny having problems with all the people who were petrified. Filch's cat first, so that is was easier for her to not get caught. Then colin. Who knows? Maybe he got on Ginny's nerves. (He certainly got on my nerves!) Maybe she didn't like competing with him for Harry's attention? Justin Finch-fletchley thought Harry was bad. He accused harry of sicking the snake on him basically making much of the school scared of him. Maybe Ginny didn't like him for doing that to Harry, so Tom got rid of him too for her. Then, there is Hermione. If you were ginny, wouldn't you be jealous of the friendship she has with Harry? She might not come out and say that, but she would in a secret diary. That or she'd say what a close friend Hermione was to Harry and then Tom would use that information to get to Harry. Either way, I think Tom used Ginny's secrets to get the people she didn't like out of the way to gain her trust. Besides, with those people out of the way, wouldn't she get better access to Harry? In turn, she'd keep going back to Tom because she trusts him. He'd then get stronger and stonger. Sometimes emotions can make you do bad things without you realizing it. Anyway, just an observation. Thought I'd share my ideas and that this could be a big secret about Ginny later on revealed. Maybe her mind isn't as innocent as we think!

Whoa! It seems like Ginny is some sort of psycho! Goodness it is possible! Kinda freaky but yeah. She seems to like Harry so much she'd just go hex everyone that annoys Harry and is in her way to Harry's affections!

I was starting to like her then boom! I read Babymars' post and now Ginny's character's freaking me out!:wow:

Baby mars Although I am not discarting your opinion. I don't think it will be likely for Ginny to go evil or that she has such a dark side. I think she is guliable. She trust too much people and other things she is not suppossed to. I think (my opinion) Perhaps she is one of those girls whose parents have protected her so much that you could easy take advantage of her. Remember on the PoA, when they are on Egypt and Mrs. Weasley does not let Ginny go into one of the pyramids I think and then on CoS, she is always holding her hand and keeping her close.

Usually on a Diary you tell a lot about your day and every single little detail on it. I think Tom Riddle used what she was telling him to attack people. She actually got scared and started to suspect things when she realized the connection between the diary and the things that were happenig, that's when she tried to dispose the diary.

Tom may have chosen who to attack based on what Ginny wrote. But he asked her lots of questions also, so asking about people's families and such would not seem strange. Ginny isn't a "pureblood" supporter, so she wouldn't think anything of who was pureblood and who was not. She would just tell Tom, as her only friend.

Mrs. Norris may have been eliminated to allow Ginny freer access to the bathroom and rest of the castle. Or Mrs. Norris "caught" Ginny writing on the wall, and she was petrified to keep her quiet. (It would be interesting to know what she 'told' Filch after she was unpetrified.) Nick seemed to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was an accident he was "petrified", but it did save Justin.

I think, it is a key element, that Hermione hugs Harry while only shaking Ron's hand. She has a very uncomplicated relationship with Harry. When she hugs him it is like hugging a brother, but hugging Ron would be a little awkward, because Ron and Hermione have a crush for each other. And at that age you are not comfortable at all, when it comes to hugging somebody you like a lot.

Another think that was in the 2nd movie and my reappear in further movies/books ist that scary hand in nocturne alley that grabs Harry. (I only read the books in german, but the hand my be called something like "Hand of Glory" or "Hand of Fame" in english). If you think about it: In the 2nd movie they could have left Nocturne Alley out completely, because Harry does not see the Malfoys in that shop. And in the movie, we don't learn, that the Malfoys keep dark magical artifacts at their mansion. So the only reason to keep Harry's travel to Nocturne Alley in the movie could be that strange hand.

LOL, I did make Ginny sound evil didn't I? Hehe! Sorry all :)

I'm sure Ginny isn't evil. I just had this idea pop in my head and off my little fingers went. Pardon me if I offended any Ginny lovers. Evil Ginny...LOL. What a classic. :rotfl:

I still think that Tom did use her secrets to get at some people. Maybe not because she wanted to do away with them, but he found out that they aren't purebloods? Whatever, it isn't as cool without evil Ginny! LOL! Sorry..... :D

Cheers :smooch:

LOL.....

Darth Voldemort, I agree about the Hand of Glory thing.

I think that you should discuss that hug/handshake thing in the Who Will Fall in Love With Whom thread.

The "key" may well be to do with choices made and there repercusions not just the immediate ones but those that have had ripples continuing through the later books

Yes, that may be true ... let's think of some of the choices that were made.

Too late i'm going to bed i'll check this when I get home I expect you all to have made at least 1 serious breakthrough each before I get back, or there will be trouble by George!

I don't expect any breakthroughs soon. :p

Myj nearest breakthrough is June 21, 2003.

I agree about the Hand of Glory. If you watch CoS again, you'll see that Harry really has a thing about hands in that film. He looks at Hermione's hand when she's petrified, and Justin's hand (or is it Colin's?) and the Hand of Glory (it is Glory, by the way)... so I think hand's could have a point.

The other thing I noticed that stood out in the film were two occasions where Malofy was really mean, petty mean. The page out of the book in Flourish and Blotts and the present in the Common Room. How odd that was.

As for Ginny, I think it's possible that she was feeding ideas to Tom but without noticing she was doing it. Like 'Serial Mom' only younger... Don't let Ginny near that knife!!!

Ya i was also wondering what that page he ripped out of the bbook was. It made me think....

Perhaps it's a particular book? A spell book? Do you think Draco could have been looking for a particular spell? He seemed to browse a bit before he took the page.

Originally posted by Essbee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=168767#post168767))
I agree about the Hand of Glory. If you watch CoS again, you'll see that Harry really has a thing about hands in that film. He looks at Hermione's hand when she's petrified, and Justin's hand (or is it Colin's?) and the Hand of Glory (it is Glory, by the way)... so I think hand's could have a point.

The other thing I noticed that stood out in the film were two occasions where Malofy was really mean, petty mean. The page out of the book in Flourish and Blotts and the present in the Common Room. How odd that was.

As for Ginny, I think it's possible that she was feeding ideas to Tom but without noticing she was doing it. Like 'Serial Mom' only younger... Don't let Ginny near that knife!!!


Ginny was possessed by Tom Riddle, wasn't she?

Key point. TRUST Harry trusted Dumbledore would help him, Fawkes came. The fact that Harry felt so alone because no one trusted him not to be the Heir. Hagrid trusted Aragog not to harm Harry, did he find out that he wanted to eat him! Are there any other dark creatures that may come to the aid of Harry IF something happens to Hagrid.
The partnership of Dobby.

Yeah, Ginny was possed by Riddle, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have pciked up on her feelings about certain people whilst she wrote to him in the diary. So she wasn't trying to hurt people on purpose, but by accident...

We know he picked up on her feelings for Harry. He says to Harry in the chamber while rattling on about the silly things she wrote ".........and she doesn't think the wonderful Harry Potter will ever like her."

Originally posted by Shadowmoon (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=159960#post159960))
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I have this feeling that the part where Harry ends up in Knockturn Alley will probably be very significant in upcoming books (as someone already mentioned earlier).

I think major clues from book 2 appears in Knockturn alley. The stuff that Lucius Malfoy is selling, the fact that Hagrid is there to save Harry, why Harry came out at that grate! The fact that Voldemort belongings can affect people - what else is there!
Harrys confusion over whether he is placed in the right house.
Spiders and that in book 2 and 4 emphasis is placed on Ron disliking them.
The door knocker on Dumbledores office is a griffon,
gryfindor...griffon door :coolblue:
Malfoys own secret chamber at their manor.
Hagrid and his relationship with "monster" animals especially Aragog and the fact that he went to Azkaban.
Dumbledores words I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me..help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it Could this be a hint about the future

Ok I posted this somewhere else by accident but I think its better suited for this thread. Here goes whats the deal with the flying car? was it cursed when it landed on the willow? Why did it save Harry from the spider? any thoughts? I think we'll see much more about the car later on.

Originally posted by Morgoth (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=63118#post63118))
Harry has choices to make for good or bad, but it maybe that he'll make a bad choice in later books that affects his conscience.


This seems to be a reasonable assumption. Could our hero be tempted by the dark side? Perhaps some inner conflict will drive him over the edge. Just a thought.

Harry won't be driven to the dark side. I'm sure I've read JK saying that somewhere, but even if I haven't it's not goin to happen.

Dunno about the car. It's possible that we'll see it again certainly. Actually I'd quite like to. It's a cool car. :)

Thanks JoFaye. I'm now even more convinced that Riddle could certainly have picked off specific people in response to what Ginny told him.

Here are a few things that I think stand out in book 2...

A) Fawkes...He heals Harry with his tears, does that mean that some of the properties of the pheonix are now transfered to Harry? Rising from the ashes etc...Also could fawkes be Godric Griffingor's bird, It is Gold and red, these are the colors of the house and the pheonix is the symbol of the house.

B)How can Tom Riddle be the heir of slytherin if he's not a pure blood? Isnt the purity thing what caused the rift between the founders to begin with?

Another iffy character in book 2 is Percy, he was lurking about in weird places and he was near the slytherin common room.

Good point about Percy. I hadn't noticed before but you're right. Didn't Ron say he 'do anything for a bit of power'?

Fawkes - I think we've covered this before. Fawkes can't be Gryffindor's bird, I don't think even Phoenixes live *that* long, but I reckon he could be descended from Gryff's bird. Perhaps when DD dies Harry will get Fawkes?

Riddle is heir of Slytherin, but he is half blood, yes. He really is a hypocrite. It's why he hates his father so much, for leaving his mother, for making him another one of the scum that Salazar hated. I suppose he hates himself in a way. That's why he's so mean.

But wouldnt salazar ensure that a mudblood would never be his heir?

I think Phoenix are meant to live forever! So they have the immortality that Voldemort craves.

But Fawkes is one of the key characters of book 2.

We also saw the importance placed by Percy on the Ministry of Magic...

How could Salazar ensure that his heir was not a mudblood? It's impossible, especially 1000 years down the line. He must have relied on the fact that his descendants would have his principles and not marry out of wizarding families.

Technically, Riddle is a halfblood, not a mudblood. Mudblood are those born of muggle parentage on both sides, or so I understood.

I think that it was important that we learned that percy had a girlfriend in this book. I think that in the future books voldemort will try to recruit percy by using penelope to get him to agree, plus by offering him the power that he craves so much.

Someone suggested that I move my book 2 stuff over to hear from the wrong forum I used previously. I am still trying to figure out what goes where and how a proper edit is done. Dumb newbie...

Every time I re-read the books, I notice that there are so many things that at first glance seem either slightly odd or even completely innocuous but later on prove to have significance - I have a few theories about things like this (some involving the elves) that I think tie together and would love some feedback on (I am new here so forgive me if I repeat something that has been overdone):

1. The future of the elves. I see several elf-related themes coming full circle. Dobby said that the worst time for the elves was when he who was must not be named was in power. It was Dobby's fear of Voldemort's return that motivated him to disobey his masters' wishes and seek out Harry. Perhaps the others will be motivated to do the same. The plotline involving SPEW (though from Book 4, Book 2 was build-up) is still unresolved. Perhaps, since there are house elf working for many dark wizards, we will be able to see more of them acting as "spies" - along the lines of what Dobby did for Harry. A problem with this theory is that Winky did not seem at all willing to betray her master when he attempted to return the Dark Lord to power.

2. The Deathday Party. JKR says we learn much more in Book 5 about ghosts and how someone becomes a ghost. The Deathday party seems to be an isolated event in the book, playing little role in the plot except to serve as a reason as to why Harry, Hermione, and Ron missed the feast and ended up in the corridor. We were also introduced to Moaning Myrtle but I still think the scene is very outside of the general plot line. A problem with this theory is that if the scene were super-important, it would have been in the movie. The only tie-in I can think of is that in the first movie, Nearly Headless Nick does mention that his request to join the headless hunt was denied. I think this may be the only time that the first movie directly references something from a later book. I am wondering if the themes relating to social justice and inequitable hierarchy (house elf enslavement and pureblood/mudblood) are going to be extended to ghosts as well.

3. The Car. The car is still somewhere in the forbidden forest and they made a point of mentioning that in either book three or four or both (I can't seem to find it right now). We are definitely not supposed to forget about it.

4. Arthur and Lucius's fight. These guys CLEARLY have some history. Arthur dislikes Lucius so much that when provoked, he will fight him in front of his kids. This likely has something to do with the same social equality themes - how they feel about muggles in particular.

5. The items at Bourgin and Bourkes. It seems very unlikely that we will hear details on these and never see them again. I can understand that the purpose of some items is simply to show how evil the intentions of those who would own such items is - this is not just muggle baiting, the items kill. I also think something like the hand of glory could easily show up again.

6. The significance of Harry saving Ginny. Dumbledore mentions when Harry saves Pettigrew's life that when one wizard saves another, it creates a certain bond between them - the saved is in the saver's debt. I have NO idea how this could possibly develop with relation to Ginny, but since she will play a bigger role, this may come up.

This is all I can think of from Book 2 that sticks out in my head right now. I overthink everything, so I would love some feedback - particularly if I am way off and need my head turned back in the right direction.

I think that fawkes' tears healing Harry will somehow stop Voldamort from killing Harry, and the fact that both harry's and Voldie's wands have a feather from fawkes, will have an impact. I mean Jk could have had them share the feathers of any other pheonix, so why Fawkes? Could it be that Fawkes transfers his powers of regeneration to Harry, and since he has now become a part of Harry, a wand that contains a feather from him cant kill him.

Also doesnt the wand choose the wizard? why did voldies wand choose him? Was he supposed to be a griffindor but chose slytherin just like Harry was going to be put in slytherin but chose griffindor????????