Book Two "Key" to Series?

of course...it must be that 4 divided by 2 equals 2. VEEEEERRRy interesting. :)

I doubt that it's anything like that. I'm pretty sure JK was speaking directly about book 2, not indirectly through little tricks about something else.

:wonders what's on SS's mind.....:

Hello I'm back. I wanted to tell u all that Karkaroff(sp?) mentioned in the chapter 'The Four Champions', that there is actually a Basilisk's egg. Dont you think that when the basilisk lived in the CoS for a thousand yrs. it must have laid some eggs as well. If this actually happened then there is a big chance that there still is at least one more Basilisk in the CoS. I just can't think what will happen when someone (probably hermione or LV) discovers about it.
I am also interested in how Tom discovered about the CoS in five whole years. I think LV might mention that as well sometime in book 6 (not 7)

Ginny was possessed by Tom Riddle and harry by LV. There is a difference between TR and LV, I mean in terms of power, knowledge, and experience. Obviously Tom was clever enough to create a diary through which he could possess someon but it was a very long process, wasn't it? But LV is more clever and can possess anythingeasilyand quickly enough. So Ginny will have much less affect on her than Harry. But I think that is the reason she has become powerful bcoz she has some of TR in her.

IMO it wouldn't be too interesting, when there's another basilisk - now all know how to defeat it.... JKR wouldn't repeat herself, I'm 100% sure!


Hello I'm back. I wanted to tell u all that Karkaroff(sp?) mentioned in the chapter 'The Four Champions', that there is actually a Basilisk's egg. Dont you think that when the basilisk lived in the CoS for a thousand yrs. it must have laid some eggs as well. If this actually happened then there is a big chance that there still is at least one more Basilisk in the CoS. I just can't think what will happen when someone (probably hermione or LV) discovers about it.
I am also interested in how Tom discovered about the CoS in five whole years. I think LV might mention that as well sometime in book 6 (not 7)

Knowing the way JKR's mind works, they are likely going to be things that we will never think about. But I will throw in my two cents:

- Ginny opening the CoS.

There is my monumental effort...

^_^

yes! Ginny must have more power than we know...or else Voldy would not have used her.

Wait a minute! Voldy didn't have much to do with the choice. Remember! Lucius Malfoy put the diary in Ginny's book - not Voldemort. So it was Lucius who decided...

I also thought it was interesting in #5 when Ginny pointed out that she too understood how it felt to have Voldemort able to read your mind. I also wonder about Prof. Sinistra. There is very little known about her, but she is repeatedly mentioned. She also danced with Snape. And now that I think of it the North Tower and Astronomy is always mentioned although, we get very little information about them. Prof. Sinistra, North Tower, and Astronomy I have a feeling these will come together soon.

Yea I've always wondered when she was going to play a role in the book... I think she will pretty soon.. mabye not a huge role but she will play one I suppose! Mabye Snapes lover?? LOL!

Snapes's lover. I like it! Put it the Snivellus Snape forum. I'll be hiding in the foxhole.:lol:

No, we got a detailed tour of North Tower in Book 3. That's Trelawney's lair.

Yeah, Sinistra and Vector are the phantoms of the faculty, much more so than Binns. The sad part about this is, they're probably a lot more interesting than he is and we've gotten a couple of detailed snapshots of his class in action (reminds me of Ferris Beuhler's Econ class). Also WHERE is the Grey Lady. She totally vanished again. She's only ever been mentioned (in passing) in one book. Is she the most reclusive ghost on earth or something?

On a totally unrelated note, why is my name in Italics? I didn't make it that way. Is that because I'm on MB probation or something similar?

Well here's another thing of interest to you all. I dont know whether this has been discussed before or not, but it struck me the momen' I read it. When Colin Creevy was attcked and brought to the hospital wing, Minerva says: "There was a buch of grapes next to him." Now what did that mean? JKR simply didn'r put it there just to keep us going on, but even when I finished book 2 I had no ans to this qs. What do u think was the importance of grapes in that scene?
And also abt the theory of Basilisk's eggs in the CoS, it was just a tyheory. I mean I know JKR wouldn't bring in another one but then why did she mention Basilisk's egg in book 4? It was odd.

Okay, the running theory is that he was trying to sneak into the hospital wing to see Harry and cheer him up. He'd heard that Harry had been restricted to Skelegro and was bringing him some healthy contraband. As for another Basilisk hatching. Well, I'd be more nervous if Trevor had taken up a few months residence in the Chamber as you need to hatch the chicken's egg beneath a toad to ge a basilisk. The reference in GoF was more to show Moody's paranoia.

Well here's another thing of interest to you all. I dont know whether this has been discussed before or not, but it struck me the momen' I read it. When Colin Creevy was attcked and brought to the hospital wing, Minerva says: "There was a buch of grapes next to him." Now what did that mean? JKR simply didn'r put it there just to keep us going on, but even when I finished book 2 I had no ans to this qs. What do u think was the importance of grapes in that scene?



I don't know, grapes... you just sort of bring grapes to people in hospital, don't you? Bringing them fruit or whatever. They wouldn't likely have good snacks in the hospital wing. I think it's just a typical thing (besides flowers or a plant) to bring.

Yeah maybe. But it was just bothering me. thankx jasper

This is a wild guess but Dobby is the key, maybe he overheard them when Malfoy had 'business' there. So Dobby had to leave, then Malfoy ordered him to say what he heard. Remember Dobby say something in B2 like "You is to important sir" to him. Very Wild Guess I know :blush:

Good stuff here.

House Elves - I think a case of still waters running pretty deep there. Dobby, for example, disarms/overpowers Lucius Malfoy very easily when he (Lucius) attempted to perform an Unforgiveable Curse (was it Avada Kedavra?) on Harry after Harry had freed Dobby.

House elves do wandless magic. And Dobby apparates and disapparates inside Hogwarts, something Hermione is always insisting can't be done.

'Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat.'Anyone think that's it?

House elves do wandless magic. And Dobby apparates and disapparates inside Hogwarts, something Hermione is always insisting can't be done.

I absolutely agree. When Dobby stopped Lucius from getting even with Harry and Lucius just walked away, I knew House Elves must have VERY
powerful magic. Can you imagine Lucius losing a servant, being bested by Harry, and told by the former servant "You will not hurt Harry" and just walking away?. He was definitely not willing to take on Dobby at that point.

Well, I don't know about that. He got his wand out and was levelling it at Dobby when he thought better of it. House elves are probably really powerful, but the other thing to consider is that he could end up in a serious mess if he duelled with a former servant right under Dumbledore's long, crooked nose.

Doesn't that present a big problem at the MoM, non-wizards doing magic? Or is that just doing magic with a spell? I doubt that house-elves often use their powers, as the only reason we've really seen them use it is to disobey their master's orders. Excepting Winky and her bonding to Crouch, but how often do you get to do that in a day?!

'Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat.'Anyone think that's it?

It's very likely this, too. JKR said book 2 was the "Key to the series". I don't think that means there's only one thing to take note of.

I really don't know where I stand with this heir business. It seems too obvious of JKR to do another heir plotline and esp. with Harry being Gryffindor's heir. Isn't it possible that DD was just trying to make Harry feel better about the hat wanting to put him in Slytherin, so he told him how only somebody who really embodies the qualities of Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat?

Then, again, I could be wrong.

But, yes, I agree that it's probably more than one thing (or maybe a general concept we overlooked) that makes CoS the "key" to the series.

I have been pondering this question for some time now... when I figure out something besides what everyone else is saying.. i guess i let you all know

Well, I don't know about that. He got his wand out and was levelling it at Dobby when he thought better of it. House elves are probably really powerful, but the other thing to consider is that he could end up in a serious mess if he duelled with a former servant right under Dumbledore's long, crooked nose.


He was about to blast Harry with it so I don't think Dumbledore entered into his mind at the moment. I think we will hear more about elf magic, soon.

And how many other magical populations are oppressed by wizards. We learn in OotP that the centaurs are anything but happy with them, the Goblins have all kinds of gripes, Bagman being big in their minds. but remember all the rumors Luna had about Fudge plotting against them? (Maybe we should just keep an eye on the giants. They would probably step on you accidently even if they liked you.)
Then there are merpeople.

The message seems to be that wizards are rather chavanistic oppressors of other magical beings. At their worst, they even oppress those among themselves whose bloodlines are not regarded as "pure" enough. Maybe wizrds need a shakeup.

JKR's personal heroine is a civil rights activist named Jessica (it'll come to me.) She named her daughter after her. And Hermione is a self admitted hint of herself. And who is spearheading the "free the house elves" front? Hermione.

The biggest message of book two still looks like the beginning of a civil rights movement.

As someones undoubtably mentioned, though I just havent noticed it: book 2 included a lot of information that was used in book 5.
It is here that we get our first glimpse of house elves, Ginny being possessed by Voldemort, and also about purebloods etc

I believe that book two isnt the "key to the series" because it has some deep dark secret in it; but becuase we get to find out a lot more about the wizarding world.
- we find out how wizards think of themselves as "higher" than other beings
- We find out about mud/pureblood: something crutical about the Dark Side at this point in time
- We find out about Tom Riddles past, and that he and Harry are similar in ways
- We find out tha the has the ability to possess people (Ginny)
- Harry gets the start of his fame: Ginny and Colin Creevy being his "fans"

i cant think of any more...But there are more...

JKR doesn't throw things like that out casually, so I think most of the points mentioned here are likely significant. I still think (hope?) Ginny is more powerful and important than she has been to date. Fawkes has proved his importance over and over, and certainly, Tom Riddle has been key! Then, there's the chamber of secrets (could it be opened again? could something else be hidden in there?), Parseltongue, Moaning Myrtle...

As someones undoubtably mentioned, though I just havent noticed it: book 2 included a lot of information that was used in book 5.
It is here that we get our first glimpse of house elves, Ginny being possessed by Voldemort, and also about purebloods etc

I believe that book two isnt the "key to the series" because it has some deep dark secret in it; but becuase we get to find out a lot more about the wizarding world.
- we find out how wizards think of themselves as "higher" than other beings
- We find out about mud/pureblood: something crutical about the Dark Side at this point in time
- We find out about Tom Riddles past, and that he and Harry are similar in ways
- We find out tha the has the ability to possess people (Ginny)
- Harry gets the start of his fame: Ginny and Colin Creevy being his "fans"

i cant think of any more...But there are more...

Here's the link.
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=15705

It actually got merged with this thread last week, but seperated again because it is somewhat different. The opening post by mutant for hire is very impressive.

I really don't know where I stand with this heir business. It seems too obvious of JKR to do another heir plotline and esp. with Harry being Gryffindor's heir. Isn't it possible that DD was just trying to make Harry feel better about the hat wanting to put him in Slytherin, so he told him how only somebody who really embodies the qualities of Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat?

Then, again, I could be wrong.

But, yes, I agree that it's probably more than one thing (or maybe a general concept we overlooked) that makes CoS the "key" to the series.

noy only did dumbledore say that to harry, but harry lived in Godrics Hollow, Godric Gryffindor was the founder of the Gryffindor house, AND, it always mentions that voldemort destroyed the house, but voldemort was just a murderer, he didnt destroy houses, but he destoryed Godrics Hollow..."Enemies of the heir beware" does that sound like it could fit...

It has just come to me, in a brilliant flash of insight - Book 2 is the key to the series; Harry will have a weapon the Dark Lord knows not; it was in Book 2 that Arthur Weasley said to Harry the prophetic words "What is the function of a rubber duck? - the answer now is clear, Tom Riddle never had a rubber duck as a child in the orphanage, so the function of a rubber duck is to kill Lord Voldemort!

It has just come to me, in a brilliant flash of insight - Book 2 is the key to the series; Harry will have a weapon the Dark Lord knows not; it was in Book 2 that Arthur Weasley said to Harry the prophetic words "What is the function of a rubber duck? - the answer now is clear, Tom Riddle never had a rubber duck as a child in the orphanage, so the function of a rubber duck is to kill Lord Voldemort!

You know, Dedalus, you may not be as far off as you think. Tom Riddle was denied a normal childhood, as was Harry. What is this telling us? Hmmmm........

It has just come to me, in a brilliant flash of insight - Book 2 is the key to the series; Harry will have a weapon the Dark Lord knows not; it was in Book 2 that Arthur Weasley said to Harry the prophetic words "What is the function of a rubber duck? - the answer now is clear, Tom Riddle never had a rubber duck as a child in the orphanage, so the function of a rubber duck is to kill Lord Voldemort!


Dedalus,i also agree with whizbang about this. I don't think the rubber duck was any important. Arthur seemed to love everything that Muggles had.It's not difficult to understand why he asked Harry about the rubber duck,he was just curious. Moreover,it's never said that Harry had a rubber duck .The only thing that came across my mind when i read about the rubber duck was that Harry and Voldie both were very unlucky,they both had unhappy childhood and they did not have things that they should have had a child.

"Strange likenesses... " Riddle told Harry in CoS. "Both orphans, raised by muggles.. probably the only two parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since the great Slytherin himself. We even look something alike... "

It certainly seems they've gotten even more alike through the last three books, doesn't it?

I wonder what the others think - cuz I sure don't know what to make of this. I'm so tired tonight I can hardly make sense of 1 + 1 = 2. Plus my 9yo has done something really crazy to my mouse with a game he favors.

What's up with the rubber duck? I'm drawing a blank on that one!

Also Harry has a strange feeling of recognition about Tom Riddle like a long ago childhood friend it says in COS.

but, hasn't the basilisk already killed by Harry with the Griffindor sword?

Kassandra,

I love the siggy picture! :rotfl:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Also Harry has a strange feeling of recognition about Tom Riddle like a long ago childhood friend it says in COS.

I thought it was the name he remembered, like he had heard a long time ago.

In the movie there are a few scenes that stand out in my mind like when Harry is visting Hermione in the hosiptal wing. the way that he touches her hands( i think it happens twice)......but that is not the only time that he is like this but when he is saving Ginny he also strokes her hand the same way so it is either Hermione or Ginny that he is destined for......(my guess is Ginny but the evidence from the movie also makes me think Hermione)

~~~ I think that somehow if Harry pulled Gryffindor's sword, he may as well be the heir of Gryffindor, i mean it's possible and since Voldemort's the Heir of Slytherin, and "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives", Harry, being the Heir of Gryffindor, might have to kill the Heir of Slytherin.~~~ :shrug: :)

Forgive me if this has already been explained before, but what about Harry meeting Hagrid in Knockturn Alley? I just didn't buy his reply that he was looking for "Flesh Eating Slug Repellant". :no:

I think Gryffindor's sword will have a fairly large part in Book 6/7. It is mentioned often, and it just seems important. As to whether Harry is Gryffindor's heir, well, that's questionable. :huh:

Hey wait a minute, I've been so stupid. I just now realized that Mrs. Norris must be a mudblood, considering she was one of the few that was petrified. I have always thought that cats are very important to the whole series, and this realization makes me wonder even more about their secret.

Well that's all I can think of at the moment. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the mysteries of CoS.

I didnt read this whole thread so i apolagize if a say anything of the same stuff.
What i think about harry having his mothers eyes is that he can change stuff with them (like the glass that the snake was inside disappeared.)
Another thing i noticed is whenever his aunt cut his hair and he didnt like it it grow back.
Dumbeldore said they was watching harry closer than he knew i think its from his owl because he didnt buy it hagrid was the one that gave it to him. Maybe its mrs. figgs or somebody.
JUst a few things i noticed.

its from his owl because he didnt buy it hagrid was the one that gave it to him.
ryanelensky,
I messed that one up, too. In the movie, Hagrid just gave him the owl, but in the book, they went together and got Hedwig.

I am convinced that the scene in Knockturn Alley is of some importance. I just watched the CoS movie again and am about to find that part in the book because I need a better explanation.

In my opinion, it is those parts of the books/movies that seem to have no bearing on the plot, which may turn out to be important. JKR just doesn't throw random scenes into her work without them meaning anything. Almost every other scene in CoS is directly related to the main plot, but Harry arriving in Knockturn Alley and then being found by Hagrid, just happens and there is no explanation offered.

I think Harry's musical Valentine might mean something. Everybody just assumes Ginny wrote it, because Draco suggests so, but it's actually never confirmed that she did. And looking at the words: '... the hero, who conquered the Dark Lord.' - that sounds like it was written by a LV supporter, as it's mainly them using the term Dark Lord. That would also give another meaning to the line: 'I wish he was mine', it would not have a romantic meaning at all.
I don't know how to interpret this, but it would be interesting to know who sent the Valentine. Maybe someone we know who is a hidden LV supporter? Or someone hidden at Hogworts we don't know about yet?

And looking at the words: '... the hero, who conquered the Dark Lord.' - that sounds like it was written by a LV supporter, as it's mainly them using the term Dark Lord. Maybe someone we know who is a hidden LV supporter? Or someone hidden at Hogworts we don't know about yet?

That's an interesting point. Hmmm...
Was Ginny already under the influence of Tom Riddle?

Forgive me if this has already been posted - I only browsed a few of the pages of this thread.

In book 2, what would have happened if Tom-Riddle-the-memory had managed to take all the life out of Ginny? Would he have been 'alive'? If so, then there would have been 2 Voldemorts - one in hiding and the other in Hogwarts. This doesn't seem likely? Thoughts?

I think the young tom riddel would have been more like a solid memory, but not the same voldemort. I mean the memory only knew about Harry causing the spell to backfire because Ginny wrote it in the diary.

i've noticed that there diiferent books pretain to others like 1 to 3
(sirius is mentioned in 1 and is told in 3) or 2 to 5 ( mundungus flecher is mentioned in 2 and seen in 5 ) so think 4 will have a lot to do with book six.

could it be the polyjuice potion? it just occured to me that that might be it.
another thing, i dont think malfoy is the heir of slytherin because it was said that the chamber of secrets could only open when the true heir of slytherin arrives at hogwarts. malfoy became a hogwarts student the year before. could ginny/collin be the heir then?

I'm not sure what you are talking about shanobyl, Tom Riddle was the true heir of Slytherin, he opened the Chamber of Secrets on both occasions, although the second time he was working through someone else.

I think important things from 2 are:
Meeting Hagrid in Knockturn Alley....Why was he really there?

and Don't trust anything that can think for itself but you can't see where it keeps its brain....possibly relating to the sorting hat?

Interesting thoughts Maggles_W, I've wondered about the Sorting Hat for a long time, it's definately the kind of entity that Arthur was talking about when he said "Don't trust anything that can think for itself but you can't see where it keeps its brain".

Wasn't the Sorting Hat Godric Gryffindor's hat?

Yep it was Whizbang :)

could it be the polyjuice potion? it just occured to me that that might be it.
another thing, i dont think malfoy is the heir of slytherin because it was said that the chamber of secrets could only open when the true heir of slytherin arrives at hogwarts. malfoy became a hogwarts student the year before. could ginny/collin be the heir then?

I agree with Picko, Tom Riddle was definitely the heir of Slytherin.To be able to open the CoS,you have to be a Parselmouth,otherwise,you can't open the door.And also,the true heir is the only person that can control the Basilisk.

what i meant was.. it was mentioned in CoS that only when the true heir of slytherin arrives at hogwarts will the chamber of secrets be opened again.

what i meant was.. it was mentioned in CoS that only when the true heir of slytherin arrives at hogwarts will the chamber of secrets be opened again.

Well the Chamber of Secrets was opened when the true heir arrived at Hogwarts, the first time when Tom Riddle was educated and the second time when he returned to the school and worked through someone else.

How did Harry get into the chamber? It wasn't open when he got there.

Harry and Ron dragged Gilderoy to Moaning Myrtle's bathroom, found the serpent marked sink, Harry intentionally spoke in Parseltongue, and it opened to reveal the tunnel to the Chamber. I don't have my books at work, but that's the quick version.

He found the image of a snake scratched onto a tap in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom, spoke parselmouth and the tap opened out into a tunnel. Once at the bottom of the tunnel, he opened the chamber itself by speaking "Open" in parselmouth to the watchers.

A couple of things I noticed in the movie that JKR could have said to keep in

- Errol and his clumsiness
- Dumbledore knew Harry was with the Weasely's (again, how closely is Harry watched?)
- Snape was telling Ron and Harry off, saying that they disregarded the decree for underage wizardry and secrecy and Dumbledore says I know what the bylaws are, having written a few of them myself.

A couple of things I noticed in the movie that JKR could have said to keep in... Snape was telling Ron and Harry off, saying that they disregarded the decree for underage wizardry and secrecy and Dumbledore says I know what the bylaws are, having written a few of them myself.

That comment was not a "keeper." It wasn't in the book at all.

How did Harry get into the chamber? It wasn't open when he got there.

whizbang,didn't Harry use Parseltongue ?? I'll go and read the book again. But as much as i can remember now,he used Parseltongue to open it.

Edit: I've just read the book again.And yeap,i was right.He used Parseltougue. :)

I think theres a thread on this already but I cant find it because my search thing isnt working for me. So feel free to link it up. We know that JK said there were important clues in book 2 so Ive been re-reading trying to find them. Im about halfway and this is what Ive come up with, although some may be better than others. Here they are...in no particular order:
-The Malfoys secret chamber under the drawing room, I can imagine that there are other things of Voldemorts hidden there that could be helpful to the order, and since Lucius is in jail they can throughly sweep the house.
-Rowling italicises Faithful when Dumbledore is telling Harry about Phoenix. This could just be for later when Harry calls Fawkes by being faithful to Dumbledore but with the Order of the PHOENIX being big now and Fawkes continually showing up I think this emphasis may have more importance.
-JK calls Hermiones ability with waterproof portable fires her specialty. and we do see them often so maybe there will be more there.
-Book two is the only one to mention Talismans/amulets. Neville buys them to protect himself from the monster in the chamber, and in other posts theres been speculations that maybe the gum wrappers his mother gives him serve a similar purpose.
-Ron says that Flitwick was a dueling champion, if so why isnt he in the order? He and Sprout both seem like theyd be up for it and helpful. the order is trying to recruit so why are they excluded? Maybe dumbedore wants assurance that there will always be teachers he knows and trusts at Hogwarts and doesnt want to risk them.
-At the dueling club Malfoy uses Tarantallegra on Harry. In book 5 a death eater(I dont remember which) uses it on Neville are the DEs passing on their tricks? I dont Draco learned that in school....
-Ernie ponders what other powers is Harry hiding? hmm.... and why havnt we seen more about the Parseltongue anyhow?
-The Weasleys car is still running around the Forbidden forest with Grawp and the centaurs... we may not be done with it just yet.
-Knockturn Alley and its largest shop Borgin and Burkes are intoduced, the Weasleys, Fred and George in particular lament not being allowed to go there, now that they have a store in Diagon Alley theyll have more time to explore the area including Knockturn Alley.
-They use a book called Moste Potent Potions for the Polyjuice Potion and I just have a feeling they may use it again for another potion.
-Colin says his dad(a muggle) is a milkman, I dont see any particular connection but any ideas?
-Marcus Flint(slytherin quidditch captain) is constantly described as appearing to be part troll.
-When Mrs Norris is petrified Harry thinks Snape has a peculiar expression on his face as if he is suppressing a smile. Why?
-Hagrids pink umbrella.... I dont think we've seen the last of it.
Finnally one thing I noticed throughout all 5.... whats with the boils???? Whenever anything goes wrong they get boils!

That comment was not a "keeper." It wasn't in the book at all.

I'm sorry, I didn't explain my reasoning better- that comment was slipped in to replace the scene at the Dursleys with Harry getting in trouble for using the hover charm. It set up that there are laws to follow about underage magic and secrecy, it also established that Dumbledore had activity outside of Hogwarts. Points that were revisited in OotP that may not have seemed important to the screenwriter at the time.

Interesting summary, Hestia. However, you've revealed a lot of spoilers in this thread, which is not suitable for Great Hall material. Actually there's a thread comparing book 2 and book 5 in the OotP Spoiler forum section, you can find it here Book Two and Book Five (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=15705). I suggest you copy and paste your interesting theories and resume your discussion there. This thread will be closed real soon.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but can anyone remember an interview that J.K.R did, where I'm sure she said that a character would be learning magic later in life. If I'm right and book 2 is supposed to have something important in it, then wouldnt the character be filch, after all, in book 2 it is the first time we find out he is a squib and he's also trying to learn some sort of magic through that leaflet harry found in his office.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but can anyone remember an interview that J.K.R did, where I'm sure she said that a character would be learning magic later in life. If I'm right and book 2 is supposed to have something important in it, then wouldnt the character be filch, after all, in book 2 it is the first time we find out he is a squib and he's also trying to learn some sort of magic through that leaflet harry found in his office.

You reminded me of a theory i came up with years ago : Filch could become a spy for Voldie in the future.Dumbledore had a squib to spy on Harry,so it'd be possible that Voldemort also had a squib to spy on Harry.As a care-taker,Filch certainly knew a lot about Hogwarts,he could help Voldie or some DEs to enter the school through some secret entrances. I know Filch was a bit stupid and slow,but he could make some improvement in the future. I always have a feeling that Filch wasn't just an useless care-taker,there might be something interesting about him in the future books.

I think the key is the chamber itself!

Although we know a crack had appeared in the ceiling the chamber remains "under Hogwarts". Is Lockhart being probed for answers to the state of the chamber - how far in they went, where the rockfall was? Could Hogwarts subside into the chambers? or can the school move location. Is there a link between Malfoys secret stash in his house and the chamber?

I had a dream that Harry was trying to kill Dumbledore with the Gryffindor sword...But anyway...

I think that the sword could be important, perhaps Harry uses it again?

The flesh-repellant thing...When I read the 2nd book the 1st time through (many many years ago) I remember being suspicious of Hagrids explanation (especially when it got to the bit where Hagrid was being framed). I cant think what else he would be doing there though...
Something to mention: Before the first movie was being made, JKR told Robbie Coltrane and Alan Rickman something about the future books (it could have been about the 5th book, not neccessarily the future ones).

The polyjuice potion is mentione din book 2 and book 4; but I dont think it has any future importance.

You reminded me of a theory i came up with years ago : Filch could become a spy for Voldie in the future.Dumbledore had a squib to spy on Harry,so it'd be possible that Voldemort also had a squib to spy on Harry.As a care-taker,Filch certainly knew a lot about Hogwarts,he could help Voldie or some DEs to enter the school through some secret entrances. I know Filch was a bit stupid and slow,but he could make some improvement in the future. I always have a feeling that Filch wasn't just an useless care-taker,there might be something interesting about him in the future books.

Hmmm. What if Voldemort finds a way to bribe Filch by granting him power. If Voldemort narrows down what happened when he transfered power to Harry, he might be able to do that on purpose. Maybe he'll take some DE who has messed up one to many times and transfer that person's power to our favorite Squib.

When ron tried to curse Malfoy in CS, it backfires. There is a green flash. Is this a connection with why voldemort's spell backfired on him when he tried to kill Harry?

maybe it's just a flash to show the malfunction of the wand?

Let's go back to how Harry opened the chamber, something only the heir of slytherin can do. :eyebrows:

Let's go back to how Harry opened the chamber, something only the heir of slytherin can do. :eyebrows:

I've read the book for the 5th time,and there's something for you.

Quote from CoS,page 114 :

"...Slytherin, according to the legend,sealed the Chamber of Secrets so that none would be able to open it until his own true heir arrived at the school.The heir alone would be able to unseal the Chamber of Secret,unleash the horror within,and use it to purge the school of all who were unworthy to study magic..."

So,that means the heir of Slytherin wasn't the only one that could open the Chamber.The heir was the only one that could unseal the Chamber,but after he had unsealed it,i believe that anyone else who was able to speak Parseltongue would also be able to open the Chamber. Harry was NOT the Heir of Slytherin because he was not able to control the Basilisk.The Basilisk only followed the true heir's orders.

Remember, too, that Voldemort transferred power TO Harry in the Curse-that-Failed including the ability to speak parseltongue. Harry may well have the power to control the basilisk as he did with the other snakes he has encountered. But, as a twelve-year-old, he most likely didn't know he had the ability to do so!

Wow, think about it! What if Harry can use Nagini to rid us all of Voldemort???

Harry had the ability to speak Parseltongue does not mean that he could control the Basilisk. It was said clearly that only the heir could control the Basilisk.Voldemort transferred some of his power to Harry doesn't mean that whatever Voldemort could do,Harry could. As i understand," true heir" means to be related by blood, and i don't think Harry had any Slytherin blood in his vein.It's possible to transfer power by a spell but almost impossible to transfer blood. :)

"You can speak parseltongue, Harry," said Dumbledore calmly, "because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak parseltongue. Unless I'm much mistaken, he transferred some of his own powers to you the night he gave you that scar. Not something he intended to do, I'm sure... "

I think that begs the question that if Voldemort transferred the ability to speak parseltongue to Harry, what else did he transfer in the process? We already know Harry can speak to and control snakes, and that he has the power because Voldemort gave it to him. Why could Harry not, therefore, also have the latent ability to control a basilisk?

I think you don't really get my idea :).I did not argue about the fact that Harry had some of Voldemort's powers,what i meant was that the ability to speak Parseltongue could not help Harry to control the Basilisk. The Basilisk would only take orders from the true heir, who had Slytherin blood in his body.

I understand what you're saying, Kassandra. I'm just offering the possibility that Voldemort may well have transferred more than just the ability to speak in parseltongue to Harry.

Voldemort, clearly, is the ONLY true heir of Salazar Slytherin. I'm not disputing the fact. I just have a hunch we have yet to see all the power Voldemort transferred to Harry, particularly regarding snakes and, yes, the king of snakes, the basilisk.

We have seen Harry

inadvertently release a snake from a glass cage in a zoo, speaking to it several times along the way;

make a conscious decision to stop a snake from attacking Justin Finch-Fletchley at Hogwarts; and

experience the senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch when venturing into Voldemort's mind during the attack on Arthur Weasley in OotP.

That last is telling IMO and it seems not outside the realm of possibility that Voldemort will quite possibly be ultimately destroyed by a snake, or a basilisk, controlled by Harry.

but harry didnt open the chamber in the first place did he?

This isnt a major point but I guess the polyjuice potion bit tells us about the effects of it so that we-as the readers-arent clueless about how Crouch Jr turns out to be fake Moody.
This might matter too much but its a start right?

Post 876 from Kassandra Amparo I think hits the nail on the head, The true heir unsealed the chamber (as only he could) but harry could open it to enter due to his ability to speak parseltongue to the stone door guards.

In my opinion the Basilisk is too big a thing to be that of the later books, I think the clue will be very hard to spot but become glaringly obvious once JK reveals what we all want (book6).

p.s. Did the basilisk not die from a sword to the brain then???

I like the Hagrids / slug repelant mystery and also the whole Knocturn alley tangent to the main storyline.

sorry to make this 3 threads but im mailing in between work
IHeartDraco your theory on the polyjuice potion I definately agree with JK was merely letting us know that this existed so that the barty Crouch Jnr thing wasnt a total shock (and cause possible complaints of being too fictional).
As Ive said before I am sure that the clue will be very small.
possibly why Dobby was able to apparate into and out of the hospital wing of Hogwarts!!!!

:welcome: to the Forums,Remus :). I hope you'll enjoy your time here.

However,there's one thing i'd like to remind you : Please,try not to triple/double-post as it's against The Forums Rules (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16174) .:)

I believe Dobby was able to apparate inside Hogwarts because he is a house-elf. House elves seem to be pretty special creatures,i think the rule about Apparating at Hogwarts doesn't apply to them.It only applies to witches and wizards.

Hi!

I didn't know if this was discussed before but do you know that CoS was originally titled Harry Potter and the Half-Loved Prince?

I know it's weird but it's true! Here's the link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/tv_film/newsid_2353000/2353727.stm).

Cheers!

Hi!

I didn't know if this was discussed before but do you know that CoS was originally titled Harry Potter and the Half-Loved Prince?

I know it's weird but it's true! Here's the link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/tv_film/newsid_2353000/2353727.stm).

Cheers!

Thanks for the link. :)

in book 2, pple were petrified. no let's make that Hermione was petrified. we dont know what a petrified person goes through during his/her "petrification" but it might be interesting to find out. who knows colin and hermione might just be the one to save the day.

anyway its just a thought. i thought i'd jot it down here before i forget all about it =P

While i was re-reading COS the other day I was thinking about how it is said to be the "key" to the series. Do you think it may have to do with the saving your memories in a book so you can be brought back again idea? I'm not sure who it may apply to though maybe Sirius, maybe someone who hasn't died yet. Maybe even Harry. Just a thought...

I just hope it isn't Gilderoy Lockhart that comes back, again.:)

We do learn al lot of things in book two. The conflict between Slytherin and the other houses, some history on Voldemort and his connection to Slytherin. We are introduced to racism in the magical world against muggleborns and half bloods, and against house elves. We discover the Chamber of Secrets and learn that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry in the backfired attempt to destroy him. We see another charm reflected back when Lockhart tries to do the memory charm with Ron's broken wand, and it hits him instead.
And so much more.

Kassandra: excellent work hunting down this possible distinction between "unsealing" the Chamber and simply opening it. If this distinction holds true, then the idea that Harry may also be Slytherin's heir crumbles.


Disarming Charm: I've been wondering about Riddle's diary a lot lately, and you could be onto something. I mean, what does it mean that the diary Riddle was a "memory" whose memory? his own, I suppose, which takes on a life of its own, within the confines of the diary, able to control anyone who "enters into" the confines of the diary. But reflect upon the enormous emphasis upon memory in this series: besides the diary, there are Lockhart's memory charms, the pensieve memories, the possible memory-charm under which Neville is labouring, Harry's latent memories of his parent's death, priori incantatum(a wand's memories!). I'm sure I must be forgetting some, but there are a bunch.

And Hagrid and the flesh-eating slugs: forgive me if this has already been said, but my assumption is that Hagrid was breeding them, but they were a bit out of control, hence the need for repellant, especially once the mandrakes came on the scene, since they, presumably, have flesh (unlike cabbages) which could be eaten by said slugs.

Finally: what I find very, very important about CoS is the fact that, during the battle with the basilisk, Harry asks for help. This is, I think, the only time in all the books that he really and truly asks for help. But then the movie really made me second-guess myself regarding the significance of this, since it was left out of the movie. Nevertheless, I have always felt that Harry's inability to rely upon others is a double-edged sword: it makes him rise to the tasks before him, even if he is all alone, but it is a tremendous burden, and things would be so much better for him if he realized that there are others in much better positions to deal with some of the problems he faces alone.

I think, sad though it will be, that Ron will kill Hagrid. If he can predict the future when he jokes about things, he said in CS that he would kill Hagrid if he even got out of Azkaban

Finally: what I find very, very important about CoS is the fact that, during the battle with the basilisk, Harry asks for help. This is, I think, the only time in all the books that he really and truly asks for help. But then the movie really made me second-guess myself regarding the significance of this, since it was left out of the movie. Nevertheless, I have always felt that Harry's inability to rely upon others is a double-edged sword: it makes him rise to the tasks before him, even if he is all alone, but it is a tremendous burden, and things would be so much better for him if he realized that there are others in much better positions to deal with some of the problems he faces alone.

That's exactly what i thought when i was re-reading the book.I think we did have some discussion on this somewhere,perhaps in another thread,and we came to a conclusion that Harry really needed to change his attitude and asked for help when it was necessary. Harry seemed to be thinking that he was the only one who could face those problems, that Voldemort and DEs were his own business,that without the others' help,he alone could solve his own puzzles... He seemed to think that he wanted to face those problems alone because of the safety of the others,but honestly, i think he never asked for help (except in CoS) because of his arrogance. He might have thought that asking for help would reveal his weakness and that he would lose respect from others for doing that.

I agree, good point, Harry did ask for help in CoS, every other time that he was given help, he didn't really ask for it, it was just handed to him, especially in GoF. Harry grew up having to rely on himself, and maybe he doesn't really know much about relying on others, but then, those that he has relied on, have kept him in the dark in the past, so I can see where that was a great break in his ability to trust, I mean think about how nobody told him what he really needed to know, until sometimes, it was almost too late.

And arry gets so angry when he feels he is on his own, and he really just needs to ask other people and they will talk to him and tell him things and help him through the hard times....

Now I'm starting to sound like Hermione! ;)

I still think that the big bit about book two was the Hagrid/Knockturn Alley thing. There was no reason to put that in the film unless there was an important clue there.

Secondly, the place we are getting our information about the Basilisk is, I hope you remember, Tom Riddle. He says 'He only answers to me!'. But what if he was wrong? After all, why should Riddle know? He's been wrong about a lot of other things. I think it's possible that Harry could have controlled the Basilisk, only he never tried. Of course, since it's dead now (oh please, let it be dead) we'll never find out, but I thought I should mention it.

I still think that the big bit about book two was the Hagrid/Knockturn Alley thing. There was no reason to put that in the film unless there was an important clue there.


Hagrid and knockturn alley were in there because Harry's trip to Knockturn alley showed him that Lucious Malfoy had stuff hidden in his manor that comes from the past, and is very connected to Voldemort, and not only that, he had it there on the same day he had the run in with Arthur, and Hagrid was there because he had to save Harry from all the crazy's, but I do think it was an important scene and shows a lot about what could come of everything.

Isn't that where Harry has the run in with the Hand of Glory, too? It wasn't in the movie, but in the cut scenes on the DVD.

the hand of glory.. yes. maybe that's something important because draco really wanted it, but daddy wouldnt get it for him lol.

Hmm,Wormtail's silvery hand and the Hand of Glory,any connection between them ?

I posted this somewhere, but yeah, it's not just the Hand of Glory, and Wormtail's sacrificed and then new-and-improved-silver hand, but also Dean Thomas' boggart-hand in PoA.

hey i think we're on to something..
hand of glory = wormtail's hand? quite unlikely...
dean is afraid of a severed hand coz that would stop him from pursuing his passion for drawing... but then.. he would still be able to draw with one hand.. so i dont know...

Is there anything more key than meeting the kid who was the last remaining ancestor and heir of Slytherin?

Is there anything more key than meeting the kid who was the last remaining ancestor and heir of Slytherin?

Good thought, I mean we deid get to see what Voldemort was like as a kid, an about Tom Riddle, and that Volde was the last remaining her.

As for the hands, I think the hand was put in just to make it so that Harry wound up staying out of sight.....just my thought though, but I do think it may have some type of high importance, as to it's connection to Wormtail's hand or the bogart, I don't really think that there is one, but then, you never know.

Well, actually all these more obvious reasons for Knockturn weren't in the film at all. You just saw Harry fall out the chimney, inspect a hand (of no name or anything) and run out the shop. We didn't see the Malfoys, we weren't told about what the hand was or did. So much as I might like to think that those are the reasons, they can't be, because JKR said that the important bit stayed in the film.

So, that means that either the important thing is:

1. The fact that severed hands (of some description) are being sold in Knockturn Alley.

2. The fact that dodgy things of any description are being sold in Knockturn Alley.

3. The fact that Hagrid was buying Flesh Eating Slug repellant (regardless of where from).

4. The fact that Hagrid was buying Flesh Eating Slug repellant specifically from Knockturn Alley.

5. The fact that Hagrid was in Konckturn Alley at all, regardless of what he was buying.

I don't think that I've left anything out there, have I? Other than the fact that Knockturn is a dodgy place to be seen, but I think we all realise that.

The movie didn't show Lucious in Knockturn alley??? Oh I thought it did, I need to go back and watch that. I think that was a large part of information, but then again, it was because it was used in the ending....oh, that is right he...no, still wrong scene...anyways, moving on

Yes, I agree, I do wonder why Hagrid was down there, I mean, we know why Hagrid was there, he was getting flesh eating repelent, but how long has Hagrid been going down tehre???? Granted, he does always like furry non furry things of odd scary natures, but what got him into the alley in the first place, and how often does he go there, and does he only buy flesh eating repellent there??? These are some definate questions we need answered.

The Lucius scene is in the deleted scenes on the DVD (and possibly the video too) so that may be where you've seen it.

As for Hagrid, I find it very odd for him to be down there. After all, he says 'Dodgy place, that. Don't want no-one to see you down there.' and yet he doesn't seem to mind being down there himself. That kind of indicates that perhaps he's been there quite a few times before and they're used to him.

Actually, saying that, I think the people in Knockturn are supposed to be scared of Hagrid a little. They shied away from him in the film and I'm sure there's something in the book about them being scared and backing off.

Perhaps that's important?

Maybe we just needed to be introduced to Knockturn alley and see the type of folks who hang out there. Some of them look like vampires and hags. Maybe these are folks who will play a part in the war to come.

I think that the reason the people were afraid of Hagrid in Knockturn alley may not have to do with the fact thaqt he has been there before, though I do admit that it could, I think that it is mostly because

A) Hagrid is HUGE, wouldn't you be afriand ofhim, even if he were a vampire or a hag

B) Don't people know Hagrid as the heir of Slytherin???

Here is a quick question, which I think we know the answer to, but I cannot remember, which house was Hagrid in?

And oh, thank you for telling me where I saw that scene, that is probably what got me mixed up.

Hagrid I believe is in Griffindor

I think that the reason the people were afraid of Hagrid in Knockturn alley may not have to do with the fact thaqt he has been there before, though I do admit that it could, I think that it is mostly because

A) Hagrid is HUGE, wouldn't you be afriand of him, even if he were a vampire or a hag

B) Don't people know Hagrid as the heir of Slytherin???

Here is a quick question, which I think we know the answer to, but I cannot remember, which house was Hagrid in?



I don't remember what house Hagrid was in, but point B is really interesting. I tend to forget about that. He wasn't cleared until the end of the book.
Then there's point A which is always in effect.;)

Hagrid is definitely a Gryffindor. People think he was a Hufflepuff but he wasn't, JKR said so herself.

I suppose I would be scared of someone that tall, also people might have suspected he was half-giant even though they didn't know for sure. Especially suspicious people might have done.

So, big scary half-giant heir of Slytherin? Yeah, I think I'd run away fast!

I'm sorry if this was mentioned all the time, but I didn't read the whole thread, just to put in:

Today somehow "Kwickspell" showed up in my mind :)

Sabine

I'm sorry if this was mentioned all the time, but I didn't read the whole thread, just to put in:

Today somehow "Kwickspell" showed up in my mind :)

Sabine
That's a good thought. I don't remember us mentioning it before (but I'm not going back through 31 pages to check!) and it's a very good idea.

So, who do you reckon will be using it? Neville? I shouldn't think so... Perhaps a new recruit at Hogwarts next year? Or maybe even we'll see Filch getting something from the course... ;)

So, who do you reckon will be using it? Neville? I shouldn't think so... Perhaps a new recruit at Hogwarts next year? Or maybe even we'll see Filch getting something from the course... ;)

I'm not sure if this is mentioned in the film. Because if it isn't this would not really be a clue, could it?

Who is there that could do with a little help... maybe Arabella, but sounds way to unspectacular.

*shrug shoulders*

No sorry -- there are no real good thoughts about from my side.

Remeber that "vanishing cabinet" the weasley twins used to "dump" someone there? Its in book two too. I can't put it together exactly, but it seems to come in "handy" for Filch in getting Peeves .... at least thats what I seem to remember.

Sabine

I'm not sure if this is mentioned in the film. Because if it isn't this would not really be a clue, could it?

I'm sorry,but i have to disagree with you.The movies and the books are quite different from each other.It is not mentioned in the movie does not mean that it is not important and cannot be a clue.They have to change or cut off a whole lot of details to fit in with the time limit of a movie,so you never know for sure how important those details can be.

Very true, of course. But in the interview on the dvd, JKR mentioned that she insisted that material necessary to the progress of the plot be kept in the movie even if it wasn't clear that it was important.
Wasn't kwikspell in the movie somewhere?
Maybe on Filch's desk on the dvd or deleted scenes?
I give up. I think I remember it, though.

I was wondering (cough) if I could have some fruit? Ringo? :love:

Very true, of course. But in the interview on the dvd, JKR mentioned that she insisted that material necessary to the progress of the plot be kept in the movie even if it was clear that it was important.
Wasn't kwikspell in the movie somewhere?
Maybe on Filch's desk on the dvd or deleted scenes?
I give up. I think I remember it, though.

I don't remember Kwikspell was in the movie...Perhaps,i need to watch it again. But as i said before,i think Filch will be important in the future.I can't explain why but i've just got some 'strange' feeling about him.It's funny the way JKR names the squibs in the books, Mr. Filch and Mrs. Figgs ...perhaps,we'll meet Miss Fish very soon in the future ?

I was wondering (cough) if I could have some fruit? Ringo? :love:

:lol: Sure,have as many as you want ..Ringo is extremely generous to young girls.

The kwickspell is on the deleted scenes

>What do you guys think these clues might be?

I just thought she was referring to the close up shot of Ron’s rat and him saying “Scabers, are you OK?”, the rat had nothing to do for the rest of the movie so it didn’t have to be there, but I guess she felt the audience should be reminded that Ron still had it as the rat might be of some importance in the next movie.

Eggplant

Mmmm... I was thinking in to possible kind of clues
One, when Mr Weasley discusses with Mr Malfoy and he really speaks him like he were nothing, he looks down at Arthur and his family for not having enoght money for new books, etc, etc... and that could be a clue to know how much Mr Weasley deserves the job of Minister of Magic. You know, Mr Weasley being in a powelful position than Malfoy. That'd be fantastic.
Another clue could be how much worry Harry is when he heard about Ginny in the chamber with Voldemort. I think since this point she starts to be more important to Harry although up to book 5 she is no so important but I think they provably'll be more related in future books, you know Harry is not any more attracted to Cho. I don't know... that's what I think!

It's supposed to be a small thing. And with the plot containing so many plots lines there arn't many to draw from.

I am sure Aragog will turn up again, and so will ghosts. It could be Harry and Voldemort's relationship. Mudbloods, or Falkes.

Small things could be ron's broken wand backfiring when he tries to curse Malfoy, a green flash is seen, perhaps this could have some connection to what happened with Voldemort. There is also Ron's off hand remark about killing Hagrid if he ever gets out of Azkaban, will this come true.

Anyone else notice something small and not in line with the main plot?

You think with the line of Ron killing Hagrid... maybe he'll be put under the imperius curse and made to kill him or anyone else?

Hmm, good thoughts.

I can't see Ron killing Hagrid - after all, not *everything* that he says comes true!

As for things not pertaining to the plot, I still have my money on Knockturn Alley. However, the vanishing closet sounds interesting... anyone got a quote for it?

Here's the quote you wanted. It's from page 627 of the American edition.

"Yeah, Montague tried to do us during break," said George.

"What do you mean, 'tried?'" said Ron quickly.

"He never managed to get all the words out," said Fred, "due to the fact that we forced him headfirst into that Vanishing Cabinet on the first floor."

Hermione looked very shocked.

"But you'll get into terrible trouble!"

"Not until Montague reappears and that could take weeks, I dunno where we sent him," said Fred coolly...

And this is the quote from book 2. Its a paperback bloomsbury edition page 98 chapter: The Deathday Party:

Harry was sitting in Filch's office. A loud noise occured and filch left the office, Harry found the envelope with the kwickspell and then Filch returns:

Filch was looking triumphant.
"That vanishing cabinet was extremly valuable!" he was saying gleefully to Mrs. Norris. "We'll have Peeves out this time, my sweet"

Sabine

Do you think Fred and George used the same one Peeves smashed? After someone hit it with a repair spell? Any ideas what a vanishing cabinet is for- besides for cramming annoying prefects in?
Just because it is there and it is valuable, what will make it a "key" in the series? Could it be an escape route?

It seams to be when Ron makes a joke it is a prediction. When he already knows how he feels about something and makes a joke they do not come true. For example the many times that he makes nasty comments about Snape, he already hates him, so his comments are driven by previous information.

Just have to wait for the next two books to see, who knows.

"Yeah, Montague tried to do us during break," said George.

"What do you mean, 'tried?'" said Ron quickly.

"He never managed to get all the words out," said Fred, "due to the fact that we forced him headfirst into that Vanishing Cabinet on the first floor."

Hermione looked very shocked.

"But you'll get into terrible trouble!"

"Not until Montague reappears and that could take weeks, I dunno where we sent him," said Fred coolly...

and

Filch was looking triumphant.
"That vanishing cabinet was extremly valuable!" he was saying gleefully to Mrs. Norris. "We'll have Peeves out this time, my sweet"

Hmm,we don't know exactly what that Vanishing Cabinet is all about, but i suddenly have an idea, someone might be able to hide in the Cabinet for weeks without anyone knows that they're even there, Fred said he didn't know where they sent Montague,that makes me think that perhaps, you can tell the Vanishing Cabinet to go to any random place inside Hogwarts.So what if some Death Eaters manage to get into Hogwarts and then hide themselves in the vanishing cabinet ? Perhaps, when Filch finds the Cabinet again in the future,instead of having Peeves locked inside it,he'll find a Death Eater.The Death Eater will place him under the Imperius Curse and ask him to get passwords to Gryffindor common room,break in the common room in the middle of the night and kidnap Harry ...

Sorry,i think i'll shut myself up before it becomes a 3-foot-long fan-fic. :blush:

Hmm,we don't know exactly what that Vanishing Cabinet is all about, but i suddenly have an idea, someone might be able to hide in the Cabinet for weeks without anyone knows that they're even there, Fred said he didn't know where they sent Montague,that makes me think that perhaps, you can tell the Vanishing Cabinet to go to any random place inside Hogwarts.So what if some Death Eaters manage to get into Hogwarts and then hide themselves in the vanishing cabinet ? Perhaps, when Filch finds the Cabinet again in the future,instead of having Peeves locked inside it,he'll find a Death Eater.The Death Eater will place him under the Imperius Curse and ask him to get passwords to Gryffindor common room,break in the common room in the middle of the night and kidnap Harry ...

Sorry,i think i'll shut myself up before it becomes a 3-foot-long fan-fic. :blush:

Hmm, there's a thought. However I don't think any Death Eaters would be able to get inside Hogwarts to get in the Cabinet. It could be a hiding place for the Harry and the gang should they need one.

I think it is very importank book, but this is my less favourite one
1. Hagrid, Lucius and Draco on Nockturn Alley.
2. Similaries between Harry and Tom Riddle
3. The story about lost friendship of Gryffindor and Slytherin.
4. Harry's Parseltongue
5. Ginny being possessed by Tom Riddle
6. Entering of house-elves and Harry helping Dobby.
7. Hagrid and Voldemort knew each other pretty good I think even if they were from other houses.
8. Our first trip to the Burrow.
9. This all pure-blood obsession.
10. We learn about the squibs.
11. We have a journey with the Floo powder.
12. Isn't Whomping Willow important in PoA?
13. Couldn't that be important that Nearly Headless Nick was killed on Halloween evening? Just as Harry's parents? I think that gives us a sign about the Ghost Night's importance.
14. We meet Moaning Myrtle.
15. We know all about polyjuice potion.
16. We first time visit Dumbledore's office.
17.We meet Fudge.

Aren't those all keys for the next books?
PS. I think Harry could be the Heir of Gryffindor and also a Slytherin! And that complicates situation :)

Hmm, there's a thought. However I don't think any Death Eaters would be able to get inside Hogwarts to get in the Cabinet. It could be a hiding place for the Harry and the gang should they need one.

I still think they can get in Hogwarts,Essbee. Sirius once managed to get in using his animagus form, so if some of those Death Eaters were animagi, they'd be able to get in as well.We've only met 4 illegal animagi,so it's possible that there are more.
I do like your theory that the cabinet could be a great hiding place for Harry & Co, though.

When Mrs Norris is petrified Harry thinks Snape has a peculiar expression on his face as if he is suppressing a smile. Why?

Has anyone else noticed the similarities between this incident and Snape's worst memory? Both Mrs Norris and Snape were hanging upside down, and even though both were horrible scenes to witness, Snape and Lily had to suppress smiles. Is this supposed to be a hint about Lily's personality, that perhaps she is more like Snape than has been told to us so far? Or was the scene with Mrs Norris just a clue as to what we were going to learn about Snape in the future?

and



Hmm,we don't know exactly what that Vanishing Cabinet is all about, but i suddenly have an idea, someone might be able to hide in the Cabinet for weeks without anyone knows that they're even there, Fred said he didn't know where they sent Montague,that makes me think that perhaps, you can tell the Vanishing Cabinet to go to any random place inside Hogwarts.So what if some Death Eaters manage to get into Hogwarts and then hide themselves in the vanishing cabinet ? Perhaps, when Filch finds the Cabinet again in the future,instead of having Peeves locked inside it,he'll find a Death Eater.The Death Eater will place him under the Imperius Curse and ask him to get passwords to Gryffindor common room,break in the common room in the middle of the night and kidnap Harry ...

Sorry,i think i'll shut myself up before it becomes a 3-foot-long fan-fic. :blush:

You know what Kassandra? In the core of fanfic is a germ of ..... :huh: something interesting?
I don't know if the vanishing cabinet is the "key" to the series, but it sure does look useful to whoever gets their hands on it.
I wonder if Fred and George, now that they're out of the school, will be called upon as experts to help when dodads like the vanishing cabinet cause "problems."

Where does it say that the "key" is something small?


Has anyone else noticed the similarities between this incident and Snape's worst memory? Both Mrs Norris and Snape were hanging upside down, and even though both were horrible scenes to witness, Snape and Lily had to suppress smiles. Is this supposed to be a hint about Lily's personality, that perhaps she is more like Snape than has been told to us so far? Or was the scene with Mrs Norris just a clue as to what we were going to learn about Snape in the future?

Wow. I've haven't seen this compared to the worst memory incident. Interesting observation.

Wow, lots of interesting stuff.

Firstly, whilst it is possible that there are more unregistered animagi out there I think JK has milked that idea to death and we won't be seeing any more.

Second, good thought on Snape/Lily. I'm sure I've heard somewhere about Snape having a crush on Lily... maybe they're related? Or maybe not. Mind you, most wizards and witches seem to be in some form or another...

And Morgan - wow. Thanks for the very comprehensive list! That's certainly brought up some new points I think...

The Kwikspell letter is indeed in the cut scenes on the CoS DVD.

The Kwikspell letter is indeed in the cut scenes on the CoS DVD.
That would be where I've seen it then. But I assumed that she meant that the stuff had made it to the final cut.

What made me think of Knockturn Alley originally is that there are so many cut-scene versions of it on the CoS DVD! It's as if they kept making it shorter and shorter as they cut down the film length, but could never get rid of it completely...

Morgan, I am finally getting to analysing your reply!

1. Hagrid, Lucius and Draco on Nockturn Alley.
- I've already covered this in depth.

2. Similaries between Harry and Tom Riddle
- Hmm, hasn't been touched upon much since.

3. The story about lost friendship of Gryffindor and Slytherin.
- This I do think will be important.

4. Harry's Parseltongue
- Also not used since, except being mentioned in passing. I think it will be important again.

5. Ginny being possessed by Tom Riddle
- I think this has probably played most of it's part, except for Ginny being able to understand what it's like for Harry to have Voldemort in his head.

6. Entering of house-elves and Harry helping Dobby.
- The house elves are going to be important, I just know it!

7. Hagrid and Voldemort knew each other pretty good I think even if they were from other houses.
- This is very interesting, I'd never thought about it before. I don't think there was much love lost between them, rather like Harry and Draco only not quite so severe. I wonder if this was the first thing that Voldemort pinned on Hagrid?

8. Our first trip to the Burrow.
- Obviously used many times more.

9. This all pure-blood obsession.
- A continuing theme.

10. We learn about the squibs.
- Which may or may not be important, as discussed above.

11. We have a journey with the Floo powder.
- Used since, but never really expanded upon. A plot device then? Hmm. If so I think it could be related to the fact that inexperienced users can get sent to the wrong place. I wonder how often that happens?

12. Isn't Whomping Willow important in PoA?
- Very. And possibley in the future? Or maybe, in the past?

13. Couldn't that be important that Nearly Headless Nick was killed on Halloween evening? Just as Harry's parents? I think that gives us a sign about the Ghost Night's importance.
- Hmm...

14. We meet Moaning Myrtle.
- Who is helpful in book four, and possibly after?

15. We know all about polyjuice potion.
- Big plot point in book four, I don't think it will be used too much more without feeling over-done.

16. We first time visit Dumbledore's office.
- Obviously important, Harry goes there many times after.

17.We meet Fudge.
- A pivotal character. Especailly helpful that Harry knows him for when he meets him properly in book three.

Well, I think that's it. Everyone else feel free to expand on that...

See my thread in this forum - CoS - a connection for draco and hermione?

i dunno.

Well, okay.

Thanks for reviving the thread, I hope.

I like Snape.:agree: And Sirius, too.

Yeah if JKR specially reinforces that somethings in book 2 are important, well then they ARE important. I think a lot of people didn't like book 2, I was one of htem. But after reading it numerous times, you understand more of it and see how much stuff JKR hid in there that is vital information for the upcoming books.

Sorry if this has been mentioned already!
From CoS, people have tried to pose the conclusion that Hagrid will turn out to be evil, ( He is seen down Knockturn Alley) but I really don't think he is. Hagrid really cares for Harry and look at all the work he's done for the Order, but something that puzzled me in CoS was when Harry visited Hagrid to ask him about the Chamber of Secrets, Hagrid answered the door with a crossbow in his hand. The only people that we are aware went to his hut that night are;
Harry and Ron,
Dumbledore and Fudge
and Lucious Malfoy turns up looking for Dumbledore.
None of these people would make Hagrid scared enough to have out his crossbow, so what could scare Hagrid enough to make him feel he needed his crossbow?
Hagrid wouldn't have even known that any of these people were going to visit his hut that night, so
WHO WAS HAGRID EXPECTING?

WHO WAS HAGRID EXPECTING?

The Heir of Slytherin?

COS was my favorite book...

Here's another thread that deals with book 2 as a key (it's the connection between book 2 and book 5). I found it a real eye opener.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=15705

This question of who Hagrid was expecting has plagued many a fan. I think that he might have been expecting Dementors. After all, the last time te Heir was loose, Hagrid was blamed. He knows people get sent to Azkaban without trial or have the dementor set on them by people like Fudge. I think JKR might have been trying to convey Hagrid's distrust of the MoM system of justice.

Alternatively, he might have been expecting an actual Monster of Slytherine, since his roosters were being snuffed out by something! :D

If Ginny was posessed by Voldemort in book 2, I wonder if she is a Parseltongue now.

Me too. I always woundered if she may have caught something from Voldemort

If Ginny was posessed by Voldemort in book 2, I wonder if she is a Parseltongue now.
I don't think she is. I think that it's somethign she may have mentioned to Harry if she was, even if she mentioned it to no-one else.

Also, I got the feeling that Tom didn't realy leave anything of himself with Ginny. I know that a lot of people reckon that he did, but I don't think so. It's a bit cliche I think.

Wow, this thread is just huge!!

I'm with rotsiepots and the rest who think that the "key" thing/s in COS must be in the movie as well as the book. I think we can discount things that they changed slightly in the film too - there were a few things I noticed in the film that I can't find in the books (very small things). I can't remember exactly what though.

We'll probably speculate like mad until book 7 makes an appearance, read through it and have a complete "doh" moment when we realise exactly what JK was going on about..............

It's probably the fact that Harry's eyes aren't really green - he's been wearing contact lenses all these years. And as for that blatantly transfer tattoo scar, well... :)

Huh? Are we working on the assumption now that Harry is James reincarnated now? It would be interesting to see portraits of the Four to give an idea of what they were like, though I have a feeling that Slytherin's portrait would be downright treacherous. So far the only one we've seen is Salazzar and looks must be deceiving.

It's probably the fact that Harry's eyes aren't really green - he's been wearing contact lenses all these years. And as for that blatantly transfer tattoo scar, well... :)
Why would we be working with that?

I was just kidding with my comments about contact lenses and the like, honest... :)

I don't think she is. I think that it's somethign she may have mentioned to Harry if she was, even if she mentioned it to no-one else.

Also, I got the feeling that Tom didn't realy leave anything of himself with Ginny. I know that a lot of people reckon that he did, but I don't think so. It's a bit cliche I think.

I'm not so sure about that. She has been awfully tight lipped about things in the past. She didn't tell anyone about the diary, her date for the GoF ball, and who she was dating in OoP. I think there are some things that she is not telling. The key to Ginny is what happened to her in CoS and how she dealt with it. She keeps a lot to herself.

It was mentioned by either Fred or George in OotP, that Ginny was very powerful. Was she before her encounter with Tom?
But she didn't really encounter Voldemort. It was rather a memory of him from fifty years before. Wonder if that makes a difference?

Interesting thoughts, and I think you're right about her. Maybe she is the strong and silent type. :)

Oh well – actually I’m not quite sure where to start with …

I have a theory that may help to solve some of the riddles hidden in the books.

It probably will be longwinded – that seems to be the way my english posts are ;) so please bear with me:

Ok – at the moment I’m assuming that I will post this in the thread about Book 2 being the key to the series, so it seems best to begin with book 2.

Book two shows us a lot of important things.

- Tom Riddle is the TRUE heir of Salazar Slytherin
- Ginny and that enchanted diary
- We hear the story of the secret chamber
- We learn a little bit about Tom and his parents
- And we wonder why it tells us that Voldemort is the last ancestor of Salazar Slytherin

Those are the points my Theory is mostly based on.

To actually start somewhere I start with Tom – allthough Tom is not the beginning of my story.

As we all know – certainly even while we sleep – Tom Marvolo Riddle is the son of a witch and a muggle. Toms father left his mother when he learns that his wife is a witch. Toms mother died shortly after giving birth to Tom and naming him: Tom after his father Marvolo after his grandfather. After the death of his mother, Tom is put in the orphanage to grow up there. Later he went to visit Hogwarts, is sorted in Slytherin-house.

So the date Toms birth in 1927 and the year he starts at Hogwarts is 1938. Evenso a timeline is not the most important fact of my theory I like to have it at hand.

Tom starts his 5th year in 1942. He opens the chamber of secrets and unleashes the monster within. When the headmaster decided to close the school he frames Hagrid and gets his reward for service to the school in 1943.

After closing the Chamber again Tom is preserving his 16-year old self in a diary.

In the summer of 1946 when he is 17 he kills his father and his grandparents and then returns to school for his last year.

Well Tom did a really careful search to find the Chamber. And I don’t think its to big a stretch to assume that he stuck his head veeery deep in some Dark Arts too. But isn’t the fact that a 17 old Boy is actually able to kill three people with the Avada Kedavra trully remarkable?

We learn in OotP from Hermione that they now have reached a point where one can't learn the spells for DADA only by reading them in books. And thats the fifth year!!! I don’t suppose that if the advanced countercurses could not be learned from books you could learn something like the unforgiveables just from books. And I think it is sure to assume that they didn't teach the Dark Arts at Hogwarts at that time!

He finishes his 7th year and than more or less vanishes. He travels wide and far ….

So lets step back to the day Tom opens the chamber of secrets. My theory is that he did not only find that Basilisk there but something other too. A book with the preserved self of Salazar Slytherin.

I hope you don’t leave me now :)

Next we do a big step back to Salazar Slytherin. Its not that much that we know about him. The facts about him are carefully scattered over the books.
Quote:


"You all know, of course, that Hogwarts was founded over a thousand years ago - the precise date is uncertain - by the four greatest witches and wizards of the age. The four school houses are named after them: Godric Gryffindor, Helga Hufflepuff, Rowena Ravenclaw and Salazar Slytherin. They built this castle together, far from prying Muggle eyes, for it was an age when magic was feared by common people, and witches and wizards suffered much persecution."
...
"For a few years, the founders worked in harmony together,s eeking out youngsters who showed signs of magic and bringing them to the castle to be educated. But then disagreement sprang up between them. A rift began to grow between Slytherin and the others. Slytherin wished to be more selective about the students admitted to Hogwarts. He believed that magical learning should be kept within all-magic families. He disliked taking students of Muggle parentage, believing them to be untrustworthy. After a while, there was a serious argument on the subject between Slytherin and Gryffindor, and Slytherin left the school."
...
"Reliable historical sources tell us this much," he said, "but these honest facts have been obscured by the fanciful legend of the Chamber of Secrets. The story goes that Slytherin had built a hidden chamber in the castle, of which the other founders knew nothing. Slytherin, according to the legend, sealed the Chamber of Secrets so that none would be able to open it until his own true heir arrived at the school. The heir alone would be able to unseal the Chamber of Secrets, unleash the horror within, and use it to purge the school of all who were unworthy so study magic."

CoS Bloomsbury pb, pg. 114

and then there are the few things that are mentioned in the sorting hats songs and some bits scattered here and there.

To me it seems quite obvious that Salazar Slytherin really was some dark wizard.

It seems quite plausible to me that Slytherin would turn and leave the school when he could not convince the other founders to change to his points of view and rather open another school some place else where he could have it his way. (Maybe he even founded Durmstrang - who knows).

But he didn’t just seal the Chamber. He preserved his self in a book. So that the heir would not only find the Basilisk, but could benefit the knowledge of Salazar Slytherin.

We have seen how Ginny reacted to such a diary in CoS. But Ginny doesn't want to have this sort of "connection" she trys to fight it.

But Tom wouldn't do that. He could have welcomed it. He would have welcomed the additional powers that book provided.

What we actually learn in CoS is that Ginny is possessed by Tom when she opens the chamber. She alone would not have been able to do so.

So the Diary-Tom is possessing Ginny once in a while. Only Percy seems to recognise that there is something wrong with her.

So back to Tom when he opens the chamber. He finds the book. He is thrilled by the power it provides. But Diary-Slytherin keeps things down. He doesn’t want everyone to recognise that Tom changes. But he provides him with the power to kill his father and grandparents.

It’s a pity that we don’t know at which point in time Tom decides to change his name. I assume that this was after he has opened the chambers.

So Tom finishes school and then vanishes from view. We are told that he travelled wide and far, and got deeper and deeper into the dark arts. He prepared his task for immortality. And we are told that he underwent so many dangerous transformations that his outlook changes comüpletely and he is hardly recognised when he comes back.

We are told so – but I think, there are actually two possibilities:

One is that Diary-Slytherin become stronger and stronger and that at some point Tom Riddle died and the preserved self of Diary-Slytherin came back to life again. Just as it would have happened to Ginny if Harry hadn’t come to the rescue.

The other one is that the preserved self of Diary-Slytherin and Tom Riddle both co-existed in a body that indeed became unrecognisable on behalf of all the magic it underwent to reach immortality

In any case That was the time when Tom Marvolo Riddle vanished and Lord Voldemort apeared openly at the scene.

This all may sound far fetched to you – but there are some “facts” to proove it:

First of all there is the well known fact that bothers us alltogether ever since we have recognised it.

Tom Riddle is the true heir of Slytherin as opposed to Voldemort being the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin. Since Voldemort is not Slytherin himself but “only” the “rebirth” of the preserved self one could surely say so.

Lets visit the rebirthday-Party Voldemort had in Gof. The face of the man that come out of the cauldron has a very interessting item

Whiter than a skull, with wide, livid scarlet eyes, and a nostril that was flat as snake's with slits for nostrils...

Look at the descirtion we have of Salazar Slytherin:

It was an ancient and monkey-like [face], with a long thin beard ...

snake’s nostrils and the nostrils of monkeys can easily be described like that.

It seems to be a simple solution. But we are certainly left with the question if destroying that wicked book is actually helpful. The answer to that question could is indeed depending on outcome if there is a co-existence in one body or if Diary-Slytherin did take over completely and Tom died.

But it would certainly give some new flavour to the line in the prophecy:

And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives.

So, now I've told you. I would appreciate if you would look to it very closely and show the flaws or maybe add some proofs - I don't know - I am open to everything.

Thanks for staying with me so long

Sabine

First of all there is the well known fact that bothers us alltogether ever since we have recognised it.

Tom Riddle is the true heir of Slytherin as opposed to Voldemort being the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin. Since Voldemort is not Slytherin himself but “only” the “rebirth” of the preserved self one could surely say so.


Sabine

Wow. That was well thought-out and brilliantly done!!

The quote above I am slightly confused on though. It has been said that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are one and the same. I think we can take this as canon, it's in the books.

"true heir" of Slytherin, and "last remaining descendant" (I assume you meant descendant, not ancestor) are really similar. To be heir to something or somebody usually requires that it is somehow bequeathed to you on the benefactors' death, whether it be money or titles. Being the last remaining descendant of somebody simply means that your bloodline can be traced back to that somebody, and no-one elses can be.

It used to follow that in a case like that, where there is a last remaining proven blood relative that that person is heir to all that the family had built up over the years, and any hereditary titles too. In the case of Voldemort/Tom Riddle, the phrases "true heir" and "last remaining descendant" are the same thing.

Right, now, I throw the floor open to all comers, you can tell me how I've got it wrong!! (Do be nice though ;) ) :lol:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Sabine


First of all there is the well known fact that bothers us alltogether ever since we have recognised it.

Tom Riddle is the true heir of Slytherin as opposed to Voldemort being the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin. Since Voldemort is not Slytherin himself but “only” the “rebirth” of the preserved self one could surely say so.


Sabine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow. That was well thought-out and brilliantly done!!

The quote above I am slightly confused on though. It has been said that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are one and the same. I think we can take this as canon, it's in the books.

"true heir" of Slytherin, and "last remaining descendant" (I assume you meant descendant, not ancestor) are really similar. To be heir to something or somebody usually requires that it is somehow bequeathed to you on the benefactors' death, whether it be money or titles. Being the last remaining descendant of somebody simply means that your bloodline can be traced back to that somebody, and no-one elses can be.

It used to follow that in a case like that, where there is a last remaining proven blood relative that that person is heir to all that the family had built up over the years, and any hereditary titles too. In the case of Voldemort/Tom Riddle, the phrases "true heir" and "last remaining descendant" are the same thing.

Right, now, I throw the floor open to all comers, you can tell me how I've got it wrong!! (Do be nice though ;) ) :lol:

thanks NorthStar :)

And thank you for providing me with the finer details to heir and descendant - I appreciate that :)

There is a quote from Cos that reads:

"You can speak Parseltongue, Harry," said Dumbledore calmly, "because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - ...

CoS, Bloomsbury paperback pg. 245


and there seems to be a story to that quote. Though I don't know it personally, because I own the english books since 8 month.

But it is said that the first english edition says what the above qoute says ... ancestor.

This caused a lot of confusion and requests - and to my understanding there must be some second edition which says in the above mentioned quote ... heir

and it is said that in at some point that qoute was changed back to ancestor again.

Essence - as far as I know it is supposed to say ancestor.

As for Riddle and Voldemort being the same person:

I am not sure about that. Somehow I get the feeling that we have been made to believe that they are the same person.

It could be that there are two spirits are sharing one body.

Sabine

I think the main (key) in book two will be in connection to the secret(s) within the chamber. I just cannot believe you would build a secret chamber to only hide a giant snake.

Otherwise it must be that Ron will kill Hagrid, he say's so in CoS.

Wow Sabine, incredible, makes perfect sense. I had never thought of Slytherin leaving a "Tom Riddle type Diary".

Are you suggesting that in the Prophecy statement "Either must die by the hand...", that either could be referring to Voldemort/Tom and Salazaar, rather than Harry and Voldemort? Wow what a loophole, if it turns out that way.

Brilliant theory, Sabine! Well said! :clap: :clap: :clap:

It makes perfect sense for the Chamber of Secrets to hold secrets other than the basilisk. It seemed rather an opulent "palace" just to house the snake and surely there must have been more hidden there. In fact, it reminded me more of a temple or a place of worship, what with the enormous stone statue and all the snake-like pillars and what have you. I'm going back to read the description of the approach to the chamber and of the chamber itself.

thanks NorthStar :)

And thank you for providing me with the finer details to heir and descendant - I appreciate that :)

There is a quote from Cos that reads:



and there seems to be a story to that quote. Though I don't know it personally, because I own the english books since 8 month.

But it is said that the first english edition says what the above qoute says ... ancestor.

This caused a lot of confusion and requests - and to my understanding there must be some second edition which says in the above mentioned quote ... heir

and it is said that in at some point that qoute was changed back to ancestor again.

Essence - as far as I know it is supposed to say ancestor.

As for Riddle and Voldemort being the same person:

I am not sure about that. Somehow I get the feeling that we have been made to believe that they are the same person.

It could be that there are two spirits are sharing one body.

Sabine

You know, I've just torn my house up looking for my copy of COS and it does say "ancestor" which is strange because when talking about ancestry and bloodlines, ancestor is "before" whomever you're referring to and descendant is "after".

It may be a mistake on the editors side, since Salazar Slytherin lived over a thousand years ago, Tom Riddle/Voldemort only sixty-odd, therefore he'd HAVE to be a descendant of Slytherin, and Slytherin would be Tom's ancestor, not the other way around.

However, mistakes like that in a JK book are rare, so you may have caught on to something here!!

I'm not sure what, but while we wait for book 6 and 7 isn't it fun to speculate?!! :)

Northstar, that's where all the wacky far-fetched timetravel theories stemmed from I believe, is the Ancestor statement, when under normal circumstances it should have been descendant. Because of the wishy-washyness of wether this was a mistake or not we are all clueless about. Because as pointed out, it originally said Ancestor, than that was validated as mistake that should have been Descendant, and then it seems to have been miraculously changed back to Ancestor. Why did it change back to Ancestor? Did someone in a later printing forget it needed to be changed, was it a red-herring to say Ancestor was mistake? Don't know, I haven't seen JKR's comments on this specific quandry.

I think JK said in an interview that it was changed back to Ancestor because it made people wonder and she thought it would be fun to keep them guessing. That's what I think she said but I can't quite remember where or when she said it.

First of all: Thank you all very much - I was qiute nervous when I klicked that "save post" button and unsure about having put the right words in the appropriate places.

But actually this is a "nice" forum to be in and I do feel more and more comfortable with the english language every day - even if my english is still full of flaws.

So thanks again for making me feel good :)


I had never thought of Slytherin leaving a "Tom Riddle type Diary".

Are you suggesting that in the Prophecy statement "Either must die by the hand...", that either could be referring to Voldemort/Tom and Salazaar, rather than Harry and Voldemort? Wow what a loophole, if it turns out that way.

It could have been a book. It could have been something different. I choose the book, because I thought there could be the possibility that Tom made his diary because he found such a thing in the first place.

Sindatur ... no I haven't thought about that and I'm not quite sure if I get that point. Do you mean that the whole prophecy is not about Harry after all - or just the line: either must die at the hand of the other is not related to Harry? *runs off for book to find the prophecy*


The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies.

It doesn't look like one could fit a third person in it? And Harry must be part of the prophecy because he was able to take it from the shelf. So - I am afraid there goes some indeed big loophole ---- pity that would have been nice.


What I wanted to suggest was - very, very much simpler than that ...

Lets change the "setting" of my theory a little bit. Lets assume for a moment that Slytherin did not entirely take over the regime in Toms Body - for some reason he just "helps" Tom along by possessing Tom from time to time whenever he feels that this is needed, to, maybe, point Tom in the right direction from time to time.

We just for the moment agree to the "fact" that there is the body of Tom Riddle and this body is "shared by Tom and Slytherin.

Think about the way Harry defeats Tom in CoS. And than lean back for a moment and enyoj the imagination of Harry, destroying the book that holds the preserved memory of Salazar Slytherin and by doing that he fullfills the "either must die at the hand of the other" line of the prophecy ...

But - I'm afraid - this setting has way too much flaws in it. It couldn't work - not from what we know until now :sigh: :sigh: but to me it sure was a nice imagination.

It makes perfect sense for the Chamber of Secrets to hold secrets other than the basilisk. It seemed rather an opulent "palace" just to house the snake and surely there must have been more hidden there. In fact, it reminded me more of a temple or a place of worship, what with the enormous stone statue and all the snake-like pillars and what have you. I'm going back to read the description of the approach to the chamber and of the chamber itself.

purplehawk - I swear - if this holds true (and for the time being I would actually consider to bet on that [that there was more than just one secret in this chamber] I will actually write some unfriendly letter to that german translator - because he takes the liberty to translate it into a chamber of fright :grumble: :censored: He even manages to "translate in a way that plural actually changes into singular ... the chamber of fright - not the chamber of frights. So he exterminates the whole clue :grumble: :nc: :grumble:

I think JK said in an interview that it was changed back to Ancestor because it made people wonder and she thought it would be fun to keep them guessing. That's what I think she said but I can't quite remember where or when she said it.

Now look at JKR!!!! She thought it would be fun to keep us guessing!!!

Very srange sense of humor - huh - :lol: :lol: We are stuck in guesswork up to the ears - and just for the fun she adds a little bit more!!!! :rasp: :rasp:

Sabine

Hi Sabine,

It's rather far fetched, and unlikely, but, it could go something like:

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) must die at the hand of the other (Harry) for neither (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) can live while the other (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) survives ... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies.

Probably not, but, I wouldn't put it past JKR to have it be something where you ahve to twist the statement a bit to get to what she's really saying. She's a master at saying something that actually means something entirely different than it looks like it means.

(Before anyone attacks the stupidity of this, I'm sure this isn't exactly it, merely an example of how we probably have to twist it to get the real meaning out of it. I'm sure the Prophecy can't be taken at face value as it's written)

Oh, yeah... ! That "mark him as his equal" had us going for weeks until we finally reached agreement of the double meaning implied in the word "mark."

sindatur this really is intriguing.... but then ... isnt this "his" in "mark him as his equal" going to destroy this possibility???

I don't know if I get this right ... if the prophecy would be "mark him as equal" (without the bothering his) then but only then - there could be the possibility that the Dark Lord is a sum of different components.

But having this his in the prophecy "mark him as his equal" doesn't that show clearly that the Dark Lord is only ONE???

Or do I miss some fine-tuning in the english language??????

Sabine

sindatur this really is intriguing.... but then ... isnt this "his" in "mark him as his equal" going to destroy this possibility???

I don't know if I get this right ... if the prophecy would be "mark him as equal" (without the bothering his) then but only then - there could be the possibility that the Dark Lord is a sum of different components.

But having this his in the prophecy "mark him as his equal" doesn't that show clearly that the Dark Lord is only ONE???

Or do I miss some fine-tuning in the english language??????

Sabine


I don't think so, if you have, I've missed it too!! Still, I certainly wouldn't put it past JK to somehow make it sound like one person and then produce a perfectly valid reason for it turning out to be true.

BTW Sabine, your English is brilliant!! I'd love to be able to speak German as well, but I'm extremely rusty. I'd have never guessed English wasn't your first language if you hadn't said.

I like your theory Sabine and I must say I agree:agree: I also agree with Sindatur about the prophecy.

But notice this that the prophecy doesnt say Lord Voldemort or Tom Riddle Or Salazar Slytherin- it just says the Dark Lord. This could apply to any of them or the form that we know as Lord Voldemort- since it is one body. I think JK did that on purpous.

Also that thing about Voldemort being the last remaining ancestor- If I am not mistaken I think those words are spoken by DD- I think he knows.

And another thing- it also says TRUE HEIR- how can anyone be a TRUE HEIR from a whole line of wizards which has travelled more than a thousand years? And how can you be a TRUE heir if the person who has bequeathed you the legacy or whatever- in this case the chamber is a strong believer in the purity of wizard kind and you are only a half blood?

I think this does strenghthen your theory Sabine!:)

http://pronetworkpc.com/images/purp/welcome.gif gred_n_forge!

And another thing- it also says TRUE HEIR- how can anyone be a TRUE HEIR from a whole line of wizards which has travelled more than a thousand years? And how can you be a TRUE heir if the person who has bequeathed you the legacy or whatever- in this case the chamber is a strong believer in the purity of wizard kind and you are only a half blood?

There are likely other "heirs" around, at least blood heirs. But I believe the so-called true heir was determined by the ability to speak parseltongue. Tom Riddle was the first Slytherin heir to come to Hogwarts with that gift since Slytherin himself.

It may be a mistake on the editors side, since Salazar Slytherin lived over a thousand years ago, Tom Riddle/Voldemort only sixty-odd, therefore he'd HAVE to be a descendant of Slytherin, and Slytherin would be Tom's ancestor, not the other way around.


There is in fact one other thing that I find is very intriguing in the heir/ancestor context:

The way Dumbledore speaks about what happend in the Chamber:

"And so you met Tom Riddle,"

...

"You can speak Parseltongue ... because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin"

...
in regaard of the sorting:
"Which makes you very different from Tom Riddle"

he clearly differentiates whom he is talking about.

He talkes about Tom when the "earlier years" are mentioned and he talks about Voldemort being the ancestor of Slytherin not about Tom!

In that fight Dumbledore and Voldemort have in the MoM Dumbledore adresses Tom. From the first time I have read this I found this very strange.

Dumbledore EVER chooses his words well considered - So why - why - why- does he say Tom???

It sounds a little bit like he wanted to adress the Tom-part of voldemort in the MoM - at least to me.

Sabine

He talkes about Tom when the "earlier years" are mentioned and he talks about Voldemort being the ancestor of Slytherin not about Tom!

In that fight Dumbledore and Voldemort have in the MoM Dumbledore adresses Tom. From the first time I have read this I found this very strange.

Dumbledore EVER chooses his words well considered - So why - why - why- does he say Tom???

It sounds a little bit like he wanted to adress the Tom-part of voldemort in the MoM - at least to me.

Sabine

I think you have it in hand. Dumbledore was addressing the "Tom" who still resides at Voldemort's core. Or, as could be likely given Dumbledore's subtlety, the address was a well-aimed gibe... a reminder of who and what he really is, inside, despite his outward pretentions to grandeur. Dumbledore is so good at that. I had such fun reading him with Malfoy, Umbridge, and Fudge.

Hi Sabine,

I have absolutely no confidence in the way I broke out the Prophecy above, merely saying I agree with you that it could possibly be a duality the Prophecy is referring to in mentioning the "Dark Lord." Which I also have no confidence in whatsoever. The only thing I do have confidence in, is that i believe it needs to be twisted in some unexpected manner, such as that. I do not believe it is as straight forward as it's written, it means something that it doesn't look like at face value. Just as Snape was not the villian in SS/PS, even though it looked like he was. :banghead:

And as has been stated above, your English is superb, I'll bet it's better than alot of the folks who speak English as their primary language. One would never know if you hadn't given yourself away as German Speaking ;)

We have to remember that Tom Riddle was DD's student, too. Addressing him as Tom puts him back in his place! Let's not forget that DD can also be intimidating when he chooses, even if he is subtle about it.;)

He talks about Tom when the "earlier years" are mentioned and he talks about Voldemort being the ancestor of Slytherin not about Tom!

In that fight Dumbledore and Voldemort have in the MoM Dumbledore adresses Tom. From the first time I have read this I found this very strange.

I believed that this was down to some very clever writing on JKR's behalf.

I think that by having Dumbledore refer to Voldemort as "Tom" she is reminding us that:

1) Dumbledore and Tom Riddle had a very close relationship due, I would imagine, to Tom's exceptional power and skill - I believe that DD was attempting to foster Tom (much as he does with Harry), knowing that his power could lead him down either the path of 'good' or 'evil'.

2) Harry and Tom shared very similar lives until the point that Tom made the major 'life' decision that would eventually lead to him becoming LV - a decision Harry is yet to make, but one that DD is all too aware that he has to make.

As far as I can remember the only other character DD refers to on a first name basis is "Harry" - again emphasising the close nature of their relationship, but also reminding the reader that, once upon a time Tom Riddle was very much like Harry - a young man of great power and with a troubled past.

I actually think Harry has made his choice several times over. He has a destiny and he will fulfill it.

I think that Harry saving Ginny's life will come into play. JKR did say that when a wizard saves another's life, a magical bond is formed between them. Most people would concentrate on Harry saving Pettigrew's life, but it also applies to Harry saving Ginny's life.

That whole ancestor/descendant thing is making me think. JKR will surprise us with some genius explanation that we haven't thought of. But everyone is thinking that Voldemort will go back in time and become Salazaar Slytherin, but that doesn't make sense because Dumbledore would have no way of knowing that Voldemort would in the future travel back in time.

I was thinking about the prophecy, and I noticed never said that Voldemort was the specific dark lord mentioned. However, it's clear that Harry is "the One".

The Chamber of Secrets also must have more importance. I would bet that Harry, Ron and Hermione are going to be visiting Myrtle's toilet again in book 6 or 7.

Hi Sabine,

It's rather far fetched, and unlikely, but, it could go something like:

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) must die at the hand of the other (Harry) for neither (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) can live while the other (Tom or Salazaar as possessor) survives ... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies.

Probably not, but, I wouldn't put it past JKR to have it be something where you ahve to twist the statement a bit to get to what she's really saying. She's a master at saying something that actually means something entirely different than it looks like it means.

(Before anyone attacks the stupidity of this, I'm sure this isn't exactly it, merely an example of how we probably have to twist it to get the real meaning out of it. I'm sure the Prophecy can't be taken at face value as it's written)

I think you are right about not taking the prophecy at face value. Almost nothing in JK's writing should be.

Has anyone gone back to look at the Prophecy Sibyll makes in POA? Was it literal or not...I can't remember

i think what will have great relevance is at the end where Harry tells Dumbledore about how much he and riddle had in common. we already know most of it, but there may be more, possible even a family relation.

2. Similaries between Harry and Tom Riddle
- Hmm, hasn't been touched upon much since.



I disagree.. prior incantanium (howerver you spell it) it took up like four chapters of book four and i think it came in book five i think ( i'm probably crazy)

Where did you think you saw that in book 5?

Well, as for the whole Tom thing being mentioned above, My thought is that Dumbledore knew that being called "Tom" aggravates Voldemort and sets him off, possibly doing so in that particular situation to keep Voldemort's attention on Dumbledore and off of Harry.

Anyways, Myrtle will most likely make an appearance as Nicole99 said, she has a habit of showing up every two books so far.

I have a feeling something will happen between Grawp, Aragog and the Centaurs, not sure what that is as of this moment though. That may also be something important.

Sabine, take a few :clap: :clap: :clap:
for that theory though, I love it.

I think it will turn out to be some small detail that you probably wouldn't notice or think about.

Some of my theories:
1.) Who are the Masons, really? Spys for the MoM? Spys for DD?

2.) In Flourish and Blotts when Draco is coming down the stairs he picks up a book and rips a page out of it (in the movie, I don't know about the book I don't have a copy handy so if some could look that up for me I'd really appreciate it). What page out of what book did he rip out?

3.)What was the hand in the shop?

4.) Why was Hagrid in Knockturn Alley (if you don't believe the I was just buying flesheating slug repellet excuse)?


I don't think it would be about Malfoy selling that stuff because that scene didn't make it into the movie and if it was important JKR would have made sure it made it into the movie.

I think that it has something to do with how Harry has so much in common wih Tom Riddle. I know that they are completely different because of the choices they make, but except for that, they're very much alike.

"And while Harry had never heard the name T.M. Riddle before, it seemed to mean something to him almost as if Riddle was friend he'd had when he was very small and half-forgotten."

A friend? :wow: This makes so sense! Why would J.K.R. use the word "friend"?

What I think is also creepy is that this happened when Harry was 12. Just about everyone knows that the number 12 is special, right? A lot of people think it means a destiny. Like we can't escape that number....

But anyway, that's my crazy theory. I also think that that hand ("The Hand of Glory") is a good idea too, but I like mine. :D

Snowgoddess, that scene with draco tearing off the page from the book is only in the movie not in the book. And I would like to know what it was!

And I feel that that hand of glory could come in later.

i believe that the KEY to Cos is that tom riddle died! i have heard many theories on how in the end (book 7) voldemort will reform and that the bad side of him will be killed by harry (lord voldemort...the Dark lord ...whatever)....and the good will be left over ...tom. I say this is silly cause if tom is dead then what is left. Remember also that Voldemort was kind of reborn in the 4th book...and taddaaaaa he was born purly as the Dark lord. NOT tom riddle. so tom dieing the Cos says that voldy WILL be killed by harry in the end.

i believe that the KEY to Cos is that tom riddle died! i have heard many theories on how in the end (book 7) voldemort will reform and that the bad side of him will be killed by harry (lord voldemort...the Dark lord ...whatever)....and the good will be left over ...tom. I say this is silly cause if tom is dead then what is left. Remember also that Voldemort was kind of reborn in the 4th book...and taddaaaaa he was born purly as the Dark lord. NOT tom riddle. so tom dieing the Cos says that voldy WILL be killed by harry in the end.
I disagree with you:no: . If Tom Riddle was dead in book 2 then the rebirth of Lord Voldemort in book 4 could not have happened since he took a bone from his father and we saw that on the grave is written "Tom Riddle"- if Tom was dead then- the dark lord could not have taken the bone since that was not his father but Tom Riddle's. And even after he has surfaced again, Voldemort does say something about how his father has come useful after his death.

I disagree with you:no: . If Tom Riddle was dead in book 2 then the rebirth of Lord Voldemort in book 4 could not have happened since he took a bone from his father and we saw that on the grave is written "Tom Riddle"- if Tom was dead then- the dark lord could not have taken the bone since that was not his father but Tom Riddle's. And even after he has surfaced again, Voldemort does say something about how his father has come useful after his death.

Tom Riddles memory from the Diary was erased/killed, but that was a separate part of Lord Voldemort, a bit he left behind when he was sixteen, nothing to do with the newly reborn Dark Lord

Tom Riddle was the name of father and of the son, So Lord Voldemort (Tom Riddle) to the bone from his fathers grave who was also called Tom Riddle, Some times I think JKR does that just to mess with our minds.

Sorry if I am stating the obvious

my personal belief is that Harry being a Parselmouth is the "key" element because it seems too important to only be mentioned in one book.

Hm, the only part of the movie that I think could have been left out was when Harry was hanging out of the car on his and Ron's way to Hogwarts, and Ron saved his life. I suppose Harry is magically bonded with Ron now, which may be too important in future books/movies to be left out.

But that part was only in the film, I don't remember it from the book.

And I can't imagine that the films have clues in it you can't find in the books.

Sabine

But that part was only in the film, I don't remember it from the book.
And I can't imagine that the films have clues in it you can't find in the books.

Sabine
That's sticky point. I'm not sure how's that's going to go as JKR had approval of what went in or was left out of the movie.

It doesn't seem like there is only one thing in bk two that is the key to the series. It's the whole book. The first book introduces characters and begins explanations. But it's in bk two that we begin to see social problems like racism and slavery, we learn about the ancient falling out among the founders of the four houses. Stuff like that.

She has stated that book 2 is the key to the series, but has also implied that there is something that is very small which has a bearing in future books. This will be in both the book and the film - though is may now be in the outtakes. The scriptwriter did manage to keep it in the film.

Perhaps Malfoy telling Mr Weasley he didn't think he could sink any lower.
The green flash as Ron tries to curse Draco.
Ginny's jumper being on the cat.

We shall see

man I can't wait to find out.

Knowing JKR though it could involve Harry sneezing or something haha.

[QUOTE=Katrinchen]I just saw the movie and I wondered if Hermione would become an Animagus.

I was thinking the same thing, only because of the description of Hermione. She is always described as having long teeth and bushy hair. Maybe a rabbit?

Has anyone ever thought about Fred and George's "fake wand" that was introduced here.

Mrs Weasley picked it up at the Burrow to use, thinking it was her own, only to be angry that is was one of their fake wands.

With their joke shop now in full bloom, these wands could end up a lot of places. I think sometime in the future Voldy or a Death Eater will make the same mistake as Mrs. Weasley, and it will hurt them.

[QUOTE=Katrinchen]I just saw the movie and I wondered if Hermione would become an Animagus.

I was thinking the same thing, only because of the description of Hermione. She is always described as having long teeth and bushy hair. Maybe a rabbit?

Maybe an otter? That is her Patronus' form afterall.

I don't know if someone already asked this question but I'm puzzled with the fact that Hermione tear a page from the book, you know the page about basilisk?

Sure she could be in a hurry but I thought she respects books much more.