Thoughts on Draco

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DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 4:07 pm
Ok. I've been thinking a lot about Draco lately. I don't know why, but I have. And I've come to the conclusion that he's probably NOT as mean and bad and evil and horrible as everyone thinks. Get rid of that horrible father of his, and Draco's jealousy of Harry, and you've prolly got a normal kid. Actually, he'd prolly be really fun to be around. It's just the way he was raised and what-not that made him the way he is. I know that sometimes when I'm reading the books I just wanna jump into them and kick Draco's butt for some of the horrible stuff he does, but...you know. I wouldn't put it past JK to make Draco change his evil ways...I'd be in favor of it! ;D What do you think? Is Draco ALL evil? Will he ever change his ways? Let me know!

AngelMalfoy
November 23rd, 2002, 6:25 pm
of course draco is a good person but i wouldn't want him to lose his bad biy thang!!

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 6:40 pm
I want to know why no one ever says these things about Dudley, Goyle or Crabbe? I can't help but feel it is because they are ugly.
They are so much like him but have it a million times worse.
I don't feel sorry for Draco at all. I know plenty of people who have been through *way* more and are perfectly nice people. What excuse does he really have?

Puffskein
November 23rd, 2002, 9:02 pm
Whatever has made him the way he is, he doesn't get sympathy from me. People with bad upbringings don't have to be horrible. Don't forget that he sneered about Cedric's death. He hasn't shown any sign that he has a conscience, and by the age of 15 he should have developed one if he ever will.

DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 9:47 pm
I'm not saying I feel SORRY for him, I'm just saying that I think he could be a decent person, and that he probably is underneath everything...

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 9:49 pm
I don't think someone who takes pleasure in the deaths of innocents could be a good person.

DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 9:50 pm
I agree, but it was just a thought...please don't eat me ;D

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 9:57 pm
I won't eat you. :)

It is a popular opinion anyway. I just don't happen to agree with it.
Maybe I'll get eaten.

The character development is my favorite part of the books. I'm not in favor of this type of development for Draco though. It would be too turned-good-overnight and they are not going to get older than 17.

Dudley is the character I sympathize with. Even Crabbe and Goyle who are too thick.

DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 10:11 pm
I don't sympathize for Dudley at all! That kids just a plain brat. You could really say the same about Draco, but I like him better than Dudley. And as for Crabbe and Goyle....they're just too stupid to onow any better by hanging out with Draco...

Thanks for not eating meee!!

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 10:15 pm
Dudley was ruined by his parents too. He's had no chance at all.
And when *he* grows up he'll have nothing to fall back on after they die. Draco has the family name and money. And he does fairly well in school. What does Dudley have?
Plus Dudley will not be murdering anyone. Some heads may be dunked in toilets but that is it.
If he was played by a handsome boy in the movie I bet you that there would be threads defending him.

Crabbe and Goyle have the exact same homelife that Draco has.
They are mindless and need someone to lead them.
Draco is the one leading them so he is that much worse.
He takes advantage of people and uses them. Someone like that will never be good.
Crabbe and Goyle are also not played by attractive people in the movie. Hmmmm......(though the actors were *really* good)

DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 10:22 pm
Yea, I see what you mean. But I didn't write this thread trying to defend him because I thought he was handsome (I think he is lol, but thats in no way the reason for this post)...it was because I thought I saw a slight chance of him being able to change. I could be wrong...I'm always wrong, I won't deny it. BUT I do think that Draco, more than anyone will be the major, major character development that JK will prolly throw in. *shrugs* I dunno...

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 10:27 pm
I think he's handsome too. :)
I'm sorry I didn't mean to say that you just liked him because of his looks I was just thinking aloud about how people only defend Draco.
I have a hard time seperating my thoughts from different threads.
Must be why I am always so off-topic.

Don't say you're always wrong. It is just my opinion. Only JK Rowling can say. We might both be wrong even.

I love character development best of all.
I think he'll develop for the worst though. :)

DarlingChild
November 23rd, 2002, 10:33 pm
Yea, but it would be wild if JK did that (made Draco change), you have to admit!

Fuchsia
November 23rd, 2002, 10:35 pm
If JK does it then she'll do it well I have to admit.
I find it hard to reason with my knowledge of people but I don't know everything.

rotsiepots
November 24th, 2002, 5:01 am
I don't understand why people look for redeeming characteristics in people like Draco Malfoy. His sole purpose in the books is as a nemesis to Harry; it would be ridiculous for him to assume the role of a "good guy" more or less overnight. He may be insecure underneath all his threats and sneers, but he's still a loathsome character.

P.S. I don't think Draco Malfoy is supposed to be handsome at all. He's "pale" and "pointed" and has a "drawling" voice. Doesn't sound particularly aesthetically pleasing to me.

Kneazle
November 24th, 2002, 6:41 am
Very true, Draco's not supposed to be handsome at all. I think Tom Felton does a good job in the role, though.

I feel sorry for Draco to a certain extent. He's had a horrible upbringing, and I do believe that most of what he says is just repitition of what he hears at home, but he's responsible for a lot of what he does; he's confirmed in his horrible ways with his parting words in GoF. I wouldn't want Draco to become a full-fledged good guy; I agree that it would be too sudden and drastic a change. However, I would like to see some sign that he's not so very evil, 'cause he is evil right now. I'd like to see a change of heart, or at least something that shows that he posesses a heart. He's pretty one dimensional right now and needs further character depth, whether he develops for the bad or the good. Just. . . I personally prefer the latter. :)

I've always felt bad for Dudley. His family is so dysfunctional. He's going to be seriously messed. I've never really given thought to Crabbe and Goyle. Fuchsia's right about them, of course. I just latch on to Draco 'cause he's the most apparent of those three.

lanifiel
November 24th, 2002, 8:32 am
Oh no, not another thread about the blond haired malcontent...

Draco is not a good person, there is no evidence that shows he is capable of any good thought or deed. Sure you take away his Dad and his jealousy you might get a child that is nice. BUT HES NO LONGER DRACO! He is evil and wont change, a person with any kindness in his heart would of saluted a fallen fellow student. He, and most of Slytherin House, did not proving his disposition. It was re-enforced by the train scene where he stated that "Well - second - Diggory was the f-". This has got to be the most mean and hard hearted thing a person could of said. The poor boy is not even cold in the ground and Draco is saying he is glad Cedric is dead, you can tell this by the way he puts Cedric in the category of "Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers", two people he detests...

Anyway I'm gonna end here before the rant just keeps on going...

DogStar87
November 24th, 2002, 8:52 am
Draco could be a decent person, I don't know about good. He is always doing something nasty, however he did attempt to be friendly to Harry when they met. Exceedingly arrogant is his worst quality. But I have to say he's so good looking in the movie! I wish they'd make him ugly.

hedwigs_keeper
November 24th, 2002, 9:14 am
Draco is more-or-less a spoiled brat who conerns himself with only himself. I think he does what he does because he's jealous of Harry, and all the attention that Harry gets. He wants to be the star, and try as he may, the lime-light just doesn't shine on him as he'd like it to. You have to admit though, the tourtured, jealous, bad-boy thing is pretty sexy! ;)

Fuchsia
November 24th, 2002, 10:47 am
The Malfoy's place material things above love. To Draco his parents *are* good. Lucius told Ginny that this is the best your father can give you and pointed out her ratty things. They'd take that over the nice Weasley family anyday.
Draco will not help himself. Why waste time on someone like that?

Draco had it better than Harry as well.

On the looks issue maybe I just find nerdy pale guys hot.
I watch PBS and call it the "babe channel".

But as some people are not even going to read the other posts in here let alone what JK Rowling wrote about Draco it seems pointless to debate this any longer.

Oh and lanifiel I love the bit about the blonde haired malcontent. heheheh.

DarlingChild
November 24th, 2002, 5:01 pm
Oh, I dunno what to think anymore. He is evil and mean, and I guess his only purpose in the books is to BE evil and mean =P He HAS had it better than Harry, I didn't realize it before, and look how good Harry turned out.

Though, I would like to see JK develop him a little more, but I doubt she will...along with the 'bad guy' (Voldemort) you always need an archenemy. I guess that's Draco, and its always gonna be Draco...

Wild Rose
November 28th, 2002, 2:39 pm
I feel sorry for him. I doubt he will turn good, but I can see things from his point of view. And he has had these things (about 'mudbloods' etc) drummed into him from childhood. That sort of thing is very hard to resist.

CelticFaerie
November 28th, 2002, 11:11 pm
About Malfoy being happy when Cedric died, I dunno that's pretty cold hearted to me. Although I have to agree it wouldn't quite fit to have Malfoy suddenly turn into good guy overnight, I have to agree that I want to see that there is more to him than just being bad/cruel/evil. I kind of see him like one of those extremely, racist/religous zealot type people who think its a good thing to see certain people die or take some pride in it because that is what they believe is "right". But yeah, I also agree that it probably was his upbringing who made him like that, but if you think about it, if you take away upbringing, culture, and just about everything else completely from a terrible person (say Hitler) they probably were a good person minus all that, everyone is.

violet
November 29th, 2002, 2:54 am
agreed, Darling.....
I feel Draco is cold hearted and mean, but not EVIL. Not dark.
Seeing him developed more would be great. We saw a lot more of Snape's personality and background, so why not the Malfoy's?

Wild Rose
November 29th, 2002, 9:32 am
Re; Why no-one says this about Crabbe and Goyle.
I dont think its because they are ugly. For me, it's becauseI have no respect for stupid people who blindly follow. And they come across (to me at least) as denser than a concrete anvil. I know Draco could be said to be following his father, but still.

Fuchsia
November 29th, 2002, 3:24 pm
Draco *is* a follower if you read this thread. A guy who has no control over what he is doing. His daddy abuses him blah blah.
Well why not Crabbe and Goyle then?
If they are stupid then they really don't know any better.
Draco can think for himself and determine what is right or wrong.
Their parents too are DE's. They'd get the same pressure.
And their parents follow Lucius.
They are taught to follow Malfoys.
Hmm.......

I do think that Draco is evil. Or on his way to becoming so.
He took way too much pleasure in Cos and GOF.

Wild Rose
November 30th, 2002, 12:16 pm
Yeah, I agree he is a follower. And on reflection, I dont like him half as much as I did. He reminds me of myself a little. I think what I do like about him is how he seems to do what he wants, which is a very attractive way to live.
And I know if they are stupid they have no idea of right or wrong, or not as much as Draco does. I just have a highly limited tolerence for stupidity. (and God, doesn't that make me sound mean?)

Fuchsia
November 30th, 2002, 12:58 pm
But Draco doesn't do what he wants. He makes sure that it is safe for him before he does it. He has just as many restrictions on him as anyone.
His daddy would punish him. I think he cares more about getting a new broomstick than about living free.
Dumbledore is the freer guy in my opinion.

Wild Rose
November 30th, 2002, 3:38 pm
I know he doesn't, I just said that he seems to. Maybe not to us, but I bet his classmates think he does. Anyway, the more I read, the less I like of the child. I still maintain my stance regarding Snape though.

Perdita
December 8th, 2002, 5:38 am
Originally posted by Fuchsia
I want to know why no one ever says these things about Dudley, Goyle or Crabbe? I can't help but feel it is because they are ugly.
They are so much like him but have it a million times worse.
I don't feel sorry for Draco at all. I know plenty of people who have been through *way* more and are perfectly nice people. What excuse does he really have?

Well, I, for one, don't care about Crabbe, Goyle or Dudley because they are not potentially important to Harry's story as he tries to vanquish Voldemort. It has nothing to do with how they look. In my mind, the characters from the novel stick in my mind better than the actors do.

Re: Draco Malfoy

I have noticed that he relies a lot on "wait until my father hears about this!" and the like. He seems to have firepower only because Lucius is powerful within the MoM. I wonder when Rowling will write about Lucius' downfall, and then show us how Draco would cope with that loss. Will he become a completely useless kid? Or will he learn to stand up for himself?

He seems like a very week person at times, succumbing to all that his father has taught him and failing (or refusing) to distinguish between what is morally good and bad.

Other times, he seems to be very clever. At the least, he is equally as witty as Ron, if not more. He also seems to have some leadership skills, at least amongst his group of Slytherins.

Snape started out as such an insufferable moron of a teacher. Later, we discovered that he is actually very loyal to Dumbledore. So who knows about Draco Malfoy? I don't see anything wrong with hoping that characters like Draco Malfoy will eventually see the truth and make the right decision. I think this is an innate human sentiment.

Picko
December 8th, 2002, 1:56 pm
Well considering that Lucius Malfoy's downfall will most likely occur in book 5 as he has been exposed by Harry as a deatheater and will most likely lose any influence he had once had within the Ministy. It will be interesting to watch Draco's reaction and character development from then on.

Hagrid442
December 8th, 2002, 9:29 pm
I don't feel sorry for Draco whatsoever. He has shown no redeeming qualities at all. Rejoicing in Cedric's death was deplorable, and any chance at redemption was lost after that. To say that he'd be good or even decent without the jealousy and his upbringing ignores the fact that he's responsible for all his actions. Unlike Crabbe and Goyle, he knows what he's doing.

Read my fan fic. It illustrates very accurately my view of Draco and my belief that we're responsible for our actions.

http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3299

Inkwolf
December 8th, 2002, 9:51 pm
I agree and disagree with a lot of things in this thread. :p


Why Draco and not Dudley, Crabbe or Goyle? I don't think it's entirely to do with looks....I think it's more because Draco seems intelligent, and we all want to believe that smart people will actually choose right over wrong.

As for gloating over Cedric: yes, disgusting...but life and death aren't always completely 'real' to young people. That's why armies recruit young people only, they do not want older people, with a more developed attitude toward the value of life, who might hesitate to kill the enemy instantly. They WANT punks like Draco, who think of it as a big video game.

What might bring Draco's turnaround? As has been said, he's pretty much a follower and rich-daddy's-boy at the moment. Take away the evil influence and power, and it might be interesting to see what Draco makes of himself after his world has been turned upsde-down.

For instance, if Lucius gets killed in Book 5....what will happen if he was killed by a Muggle? By Voldemort for treachery? By someone at the school--say Harry, or Snape! Can you even imagine what Draco's response will be if his own father dies at the hands of his favorite teacher, in defense of the school? Mind-boggling stuff...

Celestine_Adams
December 8th, 2002, 11:41 pm
I don't feel sorry for Draco at all. I've detested his character from the start. He looks down on others not like himself, as is proved by his constant ridicule of the Weasley family. I've always thought a good spanking with a buggy whip would benefit him immensely!

Crabbe and Goyle are just plain stupid - 'nuff said. Why else would they follow Draco around?!?

Dudley's a spoiled little brat who needs a diet like a Great White needs meat. Perhaps a little "falling on his arse" (figure of speech) now and again would shape him up. But then again, maybe not.

Fuchsia
December 8th, 2002, 11:43 pm
Originally posted by Inkwolf
I agree and disagree with a lot of things in this thread. :p


Why Draco and not Dudley, Crabbe or Goyle? I don't think it's entirely to do with looks....I think it's more because Draco seems intelligent, and we all want to believe that smart people will actually choose right over wrong.

Hmm I think it is much worse when they *are* smart and it is even more unforgiveable.
I still think it is because of looks. At least for some of the teenies.


As for gloating over Cedric: yes, disgusting...but life and death aren't always completely 'real' to young people.

That could be true...But he *knew* Cedric.
That is a little different than killing nameless people in war.

I think Draco would hate muggles even more for killing his daddy.
The boy loves his family name.

Inkwolf
December 8th, 2002, 11:52 pm
Originally posted by Fuchsia
That could be true...But he *knew* Cedric.
That is a little different than killing nameless people in war.

True. But how well did he know Cedric? He didn't meet him socially or as part of a tournament, like Harry did. Chances are, he only knew Cedric as a name and face on an enemy Quitdditch team.

Having someone he actually cares about or knows PERSONALLY die might make an impression on him. (On the other hand, that never stopped people from making war or continuing family feuds...)

Hagrid442
December 9th, 2002, 12:49 am
I think it would inflame Draco and make him even more of an arse if his father died.

Celestine_Adams
December 9th, 2002, 1:59 am
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! :hmm:

Originally posted by Hagrid442
I think it would inflame Draco and make him even more of an arse if his father died.

Fuchsia
December 9th, 2002, 2:06 am
Originally posted by Inkwolf
True. But how well did he know Cedric? He didn't meet him socially or as part of a tournament, like Harry did. Chances are, he only knew Cedric as a name and face on an enemy Quitdditch team.

He knew him a bit and that is enough. I had an evil boss who died recently but I was still upset.


Having someone he actually cares about or knows PERSONALLY die might make an impression on him. (On the other hand, that never stopped people from making war or continuing family feuds...) [/B]
Yeah, to make him think it could happen to him.

hermownninny
December 9th, 2002, 4:30 am
I'm not defending him or anything, but he is mistreated a lot by his father.....I think that's the only way he knows because that is what he has seen all of his life. He msitreats Cabble and Goyle, and tehy are his friends. It is just his way. Maybe if someone shows him that there is another way to be other than his dad's, he might change or at least...I don't know..that is just what I think.:'(

Xikum
December 9th, 2002, 4:58 am
I go with the intelligence thing. We WANT smart people to be good, like Dumbledore, is. It is upsetting when smart people are bad, because it is also threatening....Voldemort was smart & bad.
We don't want to think of smart people as being really evil and unredeemable. But, in fact that is the way of the world. People can be good or bad, regardless of smart or dumb. Thus, it may be nice for Draco to have some good qualities, it is unlikely---his evil is needed for the plot, nemises to Harry, for the angst of good & evil really having a difficult fight. Because, if evil were dumb, then it would be able to be eradicated rather easily by the good, eh? Follow my train of thought?
On the other hand, ;) He may be like Snape. Snape started out bad, but supposedly...at least Dumbledore thinks...has turned good. Maybe Snape is nice to Draco because he sees himself in Draco, and hopes to save him, by giving him some good strokes, since he knows Lucius & probably figures L is no good dad.
I think that Snape may be a good person, but turned bad when----here's my flight of fancy---he lost Lily to James. He returned to Dumbledore when Vol. killed Lily, because she was supposed to be his after Vol. killed James & Harry. When Vol. klilled her, just because she got in the way, Snape realized how far bad he had gone, to be paired with the man who would kill her just because she got in the way. I think he hates Harry because of that, but is trying to help him because that's all there is left of Lily, even tho' he's also James' son.
So, from that point of view, there may be hope for Draco yet, but it's dicey. What would be wierd is if he's the one who returns as a teacher after they graduate, as one of the rumors states one of the students, but not the big 3, will return to H as a teacher.

PotterPrincess
December 9th, 2002, 5:39 am
i definately think draco is a good guy, its just how he was raised to be, not that he likes being the way he is. kinda treats others like a house-elf almost. it only takes one person to greatly influence another and that would have to be his father. he expects so much from draco and i think its mainly about tradition and not being any other way, but the way it has been. know whut i mean? well...that's my outake on the whole thing.

Inkwolf
December 9th, 2002, 2:26 pm
Maybe it isn't just that Draco seems smart, but that Dudley, Crabbe and Goyle all seem too dull-witted for us to honestly believe one of them is going to question what he's been brought up to believe. I'd LIKE to think any of those three might have a turn-around, but I just can;t imagine the thought "Hey...this is wrong" crossing any of those slow minds with enough impact to make them change. Change requires a certain amount of introspection or outside support, doesn;t it? I really can;t imagine either occurring in the minds of the Three Evil Stooges, there...unless one of them falls in love with someone non-evil and changes to be worthy of them. Like that happens in real life a lot. :rolleyes:

Fuchsia
December 9th, 2002, 2:32 pm
I actually didn't say that Crabbe and Goyle were going to be redeemed just that they are not getting the "Poor baby" posts like Draco is.

Inkwolf
December 9th, 2002, 2:52 pm
Heh, heh...well, I feel a bit sorry for all of them (as much as you can for completely one-dimensional cardboard characters) but Draco's the only one I see any room for analysis and hope for.

Yeah, Dudders also is a monster because of his parents and their terrible example...he was trained as a bully from childhood by seeing Harry kicked around. I think he's going to lead a miserable life. But, even if something happens to change his attitude, I don't think he has the mental capacity to make a real life's change because of it.

There are actually threads hoping for his redemption....some people believe he may be the one who discovers he has magic at a late point in life....and that coming to Hogwarts, and being on the low end of the food chain, may improve his character immeasurably.

Dudders: "Mummy said I should ask you for a slimming potion."
Pomfrey: "Hmmm, yes....drink this, and then run 20 laps around the Quidditch pitch every morning and evening."

Really, that ridiculous diet Dudley is on is almost as unhealthy and abusive as letting him get so overweight and bratty in the first place....a quarter of a grapefruit for breakfast? Get real....

Wild Rose
December 9th, 2002, 4:45 pm
Originally posted by Inkwolf
Really, that ridiculous diet Dudley is on is almost as unhealthy and abusive as letting him get so overweight and bratty in the first place....a quarter of a grapefruit for breakfast? Get real....

All it would do is shut down your metabolism basicly. Well, depends what he was eating for the rest of the day, but that dramatic a change would damage your system.

I agree about Snape seeing himself in Draco. Perhaps Snape had father issues also? I can see Draco undergoing some kind of change.

There are some things that could be interpreted either way. Cant think of any examples from the book right now, but I have one from the film-his whining in the forrest, where Harry says if he didn't know wany better he would say he was scared. This could be to show that he is just a coward, or it could be to show that he does have some normal emotions, that he is just a child.

DarlingChild
December 9th, 2002, 8:52 pm
Originally posted by Xikum

I think that Snape may be a good person, but turned bad when----here's my flight of fancy---he lost Lily to James. He returned to Dumbledore when Vol. killed Lily, because she was supposed to be his after Vol. killed James & Harry. When Vol. klilled her, just because she got in the way, Snape realized how far bad he had gone, to be paired with the man who would kill her just because she got in the way. I think he hates Harry because of that, but is trying to help him because that's all there is left of Lily, even tho' he's also James' son.

!!! I NEVER thought of that! That is DEFINETLY an interesting theory! But, it was said that Snape came back to the 'good' side before Voldemort fell, which was the night that Lily died :smile:

Still, interesting theory. I like it. A lot.

Paige
December 11th, 2002, 7:50 am
I reckon anyone can change... it doesn't mean that his personality of being rude and ignorant would be any different... but there are deeper things that can change. Snape used to be a death eater but hes on the right side now, and hes even saving the lives of people he hates. The same thing could happen with Draco.. he might change what he thinks about half-blood wizards etc.. I know what Im trying to say... but I cant think how to say it. :??:
I just think the characters should respect each other for being together against Voldemort... but they have to accept their personalities for the way they are.. somethin like that

aconite
December 12th, 2002, 5:16 am
I think Draco is young enough that it is still possible for him to change. Right now, his life is being influenced primarily by two adult role models who are pulling him in different directions, his father and Snape. If Lucius dies in book 5 and Snape is all Draco has left, he too may become a harsh-exteriored but overall well-meaning person like Snape.

DarlingChild
December 12th, 2002, 8:57 pm
Excellent point aconite! :smile:

Inkwolf
December 12th, 2002, 10:41 pm
Originally posted by aconite
Right now, his life is being influenced primarily by two adult role models who are pulling him in different directions, his father and Snape.

Actually, in CoS, Draco believed Snape would get rid of all the mudbloods if he became Headmaster....so if there are two different directions, I don't think Draco's noticed it yet! ;D

But we should see some conflict soon....

Pigwidgeon
December 13th, 2002, 1:50 am
Probaly a stupid thing to say, but I rather like Crabbe and Goyle. Ok, they're dumb, and I'll change my opinion if they become DEs but I like them right now. Don't hate me! :o Even though they aren't "handsome" I think they can be endearing. Maybe I just have a soft spot. I think they have more potential to become good than Draco does. They are the ultimate followers, they just need to be convinced to join the side against Voldemort. I think it would be much tougher to convince Draco to join the fight.

Justin Etre
March 5th, 2003, 10:54 am
I have started a thread about Draco being misunderstood, but I will post here too anyway.
I think he is far too overshadowed by his father, and wehn he atures and gets stronger he will stand up to his father and let his true colours show, whether they be green adn silver or red and gold.

Wild Rose
March 5th, 2003, 4:07 pm
What always bothers me is that people think being one of the silver and green has to be a bad thing. Just because Slytherin turned out a lot of bad people, doesn't mean everyone is bad. I think that the house could be a very interesting place to be.

@-'-,----------

Amaryllis
March 6th, 2003, 1:46 am
I think that Draco will be presented with the opportunity to choose between good and evil...and I think he will choose evil.

In the movies, he is portrayed as more of a sympathetic character. We see his terrified reaction in the Great Hall when he hears about the troll in the dungeon, we actually see his reaction to Voldie and the unicorn in the forest, etc. In the books so far, he's not much more than a pointy-faced, sneering bad guy.

However, Harry already has a nemesis: Voldemort. How does Draco fit into that? The protagonist is usually only countered by one antagonist, unless the other antagonists are off-shoots of one big antagonist. So, he could turn to the good side. I hope he does, but unless it's craftily done, that could turn out really cheesy.

Vanilla Dream
March 8th, 2003, 9:02 am
The downer about this is that we are never going to get to see the full side of Draco, why, because the books are actually based on Harry Potter. The only changes we are going to see in Draco are going to be the changes through Harry's eyes and mind and not ours. And no matter which way he goes it is only going to be put rather briefly.

She's Crafty
April 1st, 2003, 11:44 pm
Sigh, sorry if this is a repeat of everything said, but i posted this in another thread and think it should also have a place here:

What, that crazy She's Crafty posting again on Draco's behalf? Merlin help us...

I'm sure that's reaction! But again i plead that you stay with me on this, i've a loooot to say, and i spent an entire sick day thinking it up and flicking through the books to back up my arguements!

First of all, let me make it absolutely clear that i am not any of the following: A Tom Felton groupie who thinks Draco could be redeemed because Tom is a hottie. I am not a Draco groupie in any particular sense and neither am i a 'poor Draco is a wickle abused child, its so not his fault he's evil...'

What i am is an aspiring writer/college student and why i believe Draco could be redeemed is well...just read the d**n post!

As someone who does hope to be a writer some day i spend a lot of time, as part of my learning/A Level courses, analysing texts. I look routinely at charactirization methods and the sulbties of what may seem a straight forward character at first. For example at the moment i'm looking at A Streetcar Named Desire and even the reprehensible Stanley is not entirely straight forward.

I'm explaining this so you know i'm just taking bits of the HP books and making up a load of c**p just to back up my pro-redemptionista stance on Mr Malfoy. I am not looking at things the way i want to, but everyone had a different interpretation of thingd and this is merely mine. I'm sure other's are entirely different.

In short, i am looking at Draco's character from a writer's point of view (and i'm not using Faith as a pointer either). I have still come to the conclusion that Draco is redeemable. But whether he actually will be redeemed or even want to be remains to be seen. But i think there are strong hints that would definately pertain to side switching later on.

And they are (*drum role*)

------> His first meeting with Harry in Madam Malkin's.

Look at the dialogue carefully. Yes, he's being a snotty little ****, but look at what Draco is actually saying. The dig about Hufflepuff, the complaint about first years not being allowed brooms. To me that whole exchange screams "I'm trying to be wicked cool here!" He's seriously trying to impress Harry (and he does not know is identity here either). Draco is dismissive of Harry at the end though because harry is clearly isn't impressed at all. Another wizard with knowledge of Hufflepuff and the rule might well have been (or at least have agreed with him). Draco also boasts about his family's wealth, another 'look how cool i am' tactic. To me, and this entirely IMHO, i think it suggests very strongly that Draco does want friends, a good friend to talk to and joke with (in other words, the complete opposite of Crabbe and Goyle). It's all so typical of what a child, especially a rich one, would do to try and win someone's friendship and when Harry didn't go for it Draco immediately lost interest.

-----------> Borgin and Burkes and Lucius/Draco exchange.

Ok - we get immediately that Draco is jealous and resentful of Harry and voices this a lot if Lucius' 'you've told me this at least a hundred times' is anything to go by. Harry is everything Draco wants to be in terms of being famous and popular and seems to have achieved through a way Draco probably never even dreamed of - he's simply been a nice and unprejudiced person.

I think this is where parental influence has had a part to play. The reason i believe this is that Lucius has most likely past on the belief that money = power and popularity and maybe even fame and obviously that Mudbloods are completely inferior to pureblood wizards. therefore i think Draco just doesn't get why Harry is more popular and well liked than he and Hermione beat him in every exam. At this point i'd like to remind everybody that i do NOT hold Lucius entirely responsible for everything Draco has done/said. Draco should rightly be held accountable everthing he has chosen to do/say because in the end that it exactly what it was - his choice.

It's possible that when the time comes to choose a side, Malfoy might (reluctantly) side with Dumbeldore and by exstension Harry because in the end, it holds far more benefits - bearing in mind that Draco is an utter coward and would probably go with the side less liely to not only lose but also not likely to land him well and truly in it should it lose.

-----------> Trying to get Hagrid Sacked.

No, i'm not crazy nor recently had a surprise lobotomy, i do actually think there is a sign of a different side to Draco displayed here that could effect whom he shall choose to side with later on. In a nutshell i think it displays an insecure side to him. He plays on that injury not only for the benefits of having his two enemy students do his Potions work for him abd having an inept teacher he depises sacked but also Draco was playing for the sympathy vote. I'd imagine he doesn't get that often or at all, and it shows insecurity because it's a pretty low place to stoop to get anyone to show remotely kind/friendly feelings towards him.

There's also a point i will look at pertaining to how his father reacted to this incident (he didn't come and visit his son, just decided to de what Lucius obviously enjoys - bullying and intimidating people for his own benefit). But that's later.

-----------> His reaction to an insult to his mother.

I brought this up once before and it was refuted with a very good point - Malfoy probably reacted so angrily because an insult to his mother is an insult to his family and therefore him personally. But i've looked over this scene again and i'm not entirely convinced that is simply the case here. Look again. Harry and Ron just accused his father of being one of the wizards torturing the Muggles. It's accurate, but Draco doesn't really defend his father and i wonder why not. Lucius does a lot to cover his past evil tracks, don't you think he'd be royally ****** that his own son, far from strenuoslly denying this accusation and upholding the family honour he practically confirms it? But when Harry makes a snide crack about Narcissa Draco actually gets riled and threatens him? I think that suggests Draco has a bigger emotional attachment to his mother than his father. Lucius is only useful as a tool to threaten people with it would seem.

And one thing that pertains to all the books but is entirely IMHO and therefore can be completely disregarded altogether.

Now, i used to be sort of in the camp that Lucius is an abusive father, i at least believed it was a strong possibility.

This BTW, is physical abuse i'm speaking of, but i have actually come to the conclusion that it is not that at all - i believe Draco has suffered emtional abuse.

I don't think anyone for a second would think that Lucius is a loving father. To treat your children as a possession or simply as another person to dominate and control is emotional abuse. To treat a child with cold indifference and constantly put them down is emotional abuse. I personally feel there is a strong case to support my thoery that Draco has been emtonally abused by his father in at least one of these forms - look at Borgin and Burkes for instance, where he basically tells Draco he's lower than a Mudblood, which despite the ignorant racism behind that it's still not nice to be told. Also, when his arm was hurt by Buckbeak, Lucius shows not an iota of interest in Draco's well being, only that Hagrid will be punished for it. Typical rich arrogant ******* on a powertrip.

In conclusion, i do believe there is a strong chance of Draco being redeemed. I personally feel it would add so much to the character (effectively it would make him a contradiction). A character whom, nasty but funny quips aside, is too much a stereotypical school bully. Heck, even Voldie has layers! I know a lot of people believe Draco is a 'scratch the surface and you'll only get more surface' type but i simply cannot buy that J.K. would just create such a two dimensional villian like that. In fact i would be gravely disappointed in her if that turns out to be the case. Draco is not Iago (evil for the sake of it).

That's my two Knuts worth! Feel free to add yours!

Lordy, that was long!

Weatherby
April 1st, 2003, 11:51 pm
Originally posted by Wild Rose (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=201274#post201274))
What always bothers me is that people think being one of the silver and green has to be a bad thing. Just because Slytherin turned out a lot of bad people, doesn't mean everyone is bad. I think that the house could be a very interesting place to be.

@-'-,----------


I don't think all Slytherins are bad but I do think Draco is lacking a basic human kindness.
As for the others I'm sure there's a few unlucky people in there. They have to eat, sleep and take their classes with the biggest bullies in the school.
I'm sure some will pleasantly surprise Harry.

Draco Malfoy isn't misunderstood if you read the first four books.
Rowling might put something in the last three that will make me say "ahh!I understand now!" about some passage where Draco mentions wanting to kill all mudbloods but I doubt it.
You see I know why Voldemort hates muggles but I still think he's wrong and don't excuse his behaviour.

She's Crafty
April 1st, 2003, 11:57 pm
Draco Malfoy isn't misunderstood if you read the first four books.


I don't think Malfoy is misunderstood so much as we haven't seen his whole character - everything is told from Harry's point of view and we only see what he sees. And i think there's more to see where Draco is concerned.

Weatherby
April 2nd, 2003, 12:01 am
That's a good point.
We aren't misunderstanding Draco any more than Neville since we only have the information Harry has.

However, I'm still doubtful there's anything positive coming from Draco.

sammy
April 2nd, 2003, 2:50 am
I think Draco will turn out to be good. We only see what Harry sees of Draco, and that's the evil Draco. I don't think Draco will ever be *nice* or *sensitive* to anyone, but he'll be heroic and brave.

Also, about Draco being mean to everybody but pure-bloods......he's been brought up to believe that. I'm not saying it's right or anything, but Harry and Co. should realize this, and blame it on Lucius.

The Malfoys sound like and evil/misunderstood family. We don't know anything about them because they won't let us, Draco has been taught not to let anyone in. (He does share things with Crabbe and Goyle, but remember Lucius knows their parents)

I do beleive that eventually, Draco will realize that his father is wrong. Draco and Harry aren't supposed to have a "temporary" friendship. I think it'll be a permanent one.

angel05
April 29th, 2003, 11:56 am
I think draco is sooooo handsome!!!!

Girl
April 29th, 2003, 12:22 pm
I don't think that Draco is evil like his father. He in more after the fame and all that comes with it. One example is that he wanted to be friends with Harry who is fameous.

We can't really blame Draco for hating mudboloods. He was brought up that way. His parents thought him to hate anyone who was not pure blood. To me they sound like a racist family.
If Draco was to get to know a mud blood or non wizard I'm sure his attitude to them would change.

Draco also doesn't seem to have many friends except for Crabbe and Goyle. But they are more like his possy. They don't have the same relationship like Harry, Hermione and Ron do. If draco was in dander I don't think that Crabbe and Goyle would try to save him. They would mostly think of saving themselves first.
Draco also had to buy his way into the Qudditch team.
I don't think that Draco thinks very high of himself otherwise he would have friends who won't just follow is every word and not disagree with him.

In the end Draco will see the light and break from his family.

malfoyschick
April 29th, 2003, 8:05 pm
I think that Draco may be good in the end. Maybe he and Harry will have to work together, like Sirius and Snape in GoF.

Quasi_EviL
April 30th, 2003, 3:28 am
Well, in my opinion, we need Draco to stay evil so that something's still there reminding Harry that not everybody admires him.

It is also our choices that make us who we are, and Draco has definitely chosen the dark side. Yes, he may be insecure on the inside, but I don't think we'll ever see that part of him. If it hasn't reared its head in the first 4 books, I doubt it ever will. He's trying to form a shield around himself of bitterness and disdain, and hide what might be a totally opposite interior.

dobbyhassecrets
April 30th, 2003, 3:34 am
There is many good reasons for both causes. But haveing a constant evil character in hogwarts is essential to the very structure of the book. However, his father never really treats his son (draco) very nice. All this mistreatment could build up and force or give draco enough incentive to go to the light side. Given, he does get many gifts and such, but he doesn't get that fatherly appreciation that is needed in order to develop correctly. That lack of closeness could potentially (i think) give draco the reasoning to join the "good side"

Juno
April 30th, 2003, 6:36 pm
because Draco-discussions make so much fun :p i'll need to have a word, too.

first of all: by some things that have beenpointed out as proofs that Draco is evil, i may be considered as pretty evil, too. :evil:

yes, Draco is a nasty little brat and he may serve as the dark ANTAGONIST within Hogwarts.
but i think there may still be a little more to him; he kind of represents another, or the other way as to how to react to a great evil menace and force, how to see the world and what choices one can make.
(sorry for bad english)

i have to agree with SHE'S CRAFTY, especially concerning the meeting with harry in Madam Malkin's. just imagine Draco would have met HERMIONE (in case the fact that she is a mud....*cough* :whistle: that she is muggleborn would not be mentioned). she doesn't want to be in hufflepuff, too, at least she points out her priorities quite clear(please correct me if i'm wrong, i don't have the book at hand). of course she's not that fond of slytherin either, but she and Draco would have a busy little conversation.
or imagine Draco would have met RON (in case they wouldn't know from which family the other one was - well, pretty unrealistic, but whatever) - they would have talked ages about quidditch. at least that's how i see it.

now his relationship to his father: i think it was well expressed that LUCIUS is not the loving daddy, but that he is quite useful for Draco, so whenever he is in trouble or wants some attention he threatens people with him.
when Lucius would die or lose all his power or whatever, i think Draco would be a poor chick. at least in the beginning of this new and unknown estate.
think of the end of CoS, when Lucius was no longer a school govener. it is said that Draco did no longer walk around like he'd own the place.

this also supports the point that he is kind of a COWARD. that's why i don't think that he will be heroic and brave. but in the end he may do something to proof that he can think for himself and has the nuts to risk something - even if it's just a tiny little something he does. ... okay, i can't really express what i mean here...:rolleyes:

i think a very important aspect is that we see him (and everything) from HARRY'S POINT OF VIEW.
he certainly isn't that misunderstood, but there may be things Harry just doesn't get quite right or misses or whatever (Rowling could write it like that at all, cos i feel like there is enough room for it - that she maybe left room for it).
i always have to think of the end of book 4, where Harry looks towards the slytherin table, sees Draco whispering something to Crabbe and Goyle, gets angry and looks away again. we, the readers, are supposed to get angry, too, cos we are on Harry's side (aren't we?). but Harry doesn't know what Draco whispers or why or what at all, does he? there are some passages in the books, where it's just obviously Harry's reaction to what he sees.

BTW: what the hell did Draco say about CEDRIC's death (in the train)?? or what did he want to say? i mean he didn't say anything at all, did he? or do i just not get the point because i'm german and don't understand:??:

ArabellaBlack
April 30th, 2003, 9:22 pm
I'm not really sure how I want Draco to turn out in the books, because a change from bad to good would probably be instantaneous... at least, that's how I would write it and it would be incredibly cheesy... and it's dreadfully fun to hate Draco in the books... but I also believe that J.K. Rowling could do it, and far more artfully than I. She's done it before, hasn't she? I'm liking Snape a lot more than I did when I read the books just the first time (without trying to analyze them). In the first book, we were certain that he was evil, but we were wrong in the end, and we found out that he was a DE, but changed back, and despite all the evidence for him, Harry still seems suspiscious of Snape. Harry is not the ultimate authority on character. In the third book, it was Sirius we hated, until the end, but that's really not adding to my discussion, because the circumstances were very different. I like to think Draco would turn out like Snape.
I noticed something else, too. For all this talk of family and where one comes from not really mattering in what one chooses to be, there is certainly a lot of hate surrounding Draco because of his last name. I agree that Lucius screwed Draco up severly, but more than just the obvious way. Lucius definately made a reputation for himself, and passed that on to Draco. Notice how Draco gets asked if he's Lucius's son a lot, forever embedding him in everyone's mind as going hand in hand with his hated father. Harry didn't have this prejudice, but by the time he'd met Draco, the damage had already been done. He probably wasn't around many people who didn't know of his father, and so, whether they believed his father good or bad, he was expected to be just like him. It would be a little hypocritcal not to identify this as prejudice, even if by now Draco deserves it, because that would mean it's only prejudice when it happens to characters we like.
That's why I hope SOMETHING'S going to happen with the blond menace, because it would enforce J.K.'s message so much. Maybe not in a real character change, at the very least, perhaps a little recognition from Dumbledore or something. I dunno, I DO feel sorry for Draco, but I don't know how I'd like that expressed.
As for the thing on the train, that seemed like insensitivity to me, not really out-and-out malice, because, concerning Cedric, we don't really know what Draco thought, and, looking at it completely impartially, he was stating fact. At most, is was something to get a rise out of Harry.
Or maybe he's just an evil little twerp with no redeeming or sympathetic characterisitics and I'm an optimistic moron who would just like everything to turn out peachy-keen.

DocHollidaywe
May 2nd, 2003, 3:36 am
I think Draco is a perfect example of how much your parents influence can have on you

FawkesBox
May 2nd, 2003, 3:52 am
I almost see Draco as a sort of tragic character. He is so caught up in being a Malfoy and Slytherin and the best... that he can never be Draco. Because he is so busy being this person he has no time to reflect on his actions. Furthermore I don't think that he is mature enough to realize the consequences of the choices that he makes. Because of this I see him making some final realization about everything and ending up on the good side.

SusanC
May 2nd, 2003, 4:23 pm
Well, this is a verbose group! I love it. I agree with She's Crafty and a lot of the rest of you. As I've said before the only way to get this kid to change is have him loose his power and position. He loves both. They bought him a seat on the quidditch team, gave him all the goodies he likes to berate the Weasleys for not having, and gives him the phrases "this is servants stuff" and "wait till my father hears about this" We saw a little bit of his umility after his father was booted off the Board of Govenors of the school in CoS.

There are some behaviors that are foreshadowing. First his his attitude towards the "undeserving" (mugglebors, etc). He has no compassion and his constantly repeating the script that has been ingrained into him since birth, He is pure he is better. There not, there are less. Then there is his attitude towards Cedric. (Ugh, what a creep). There was no call for such a public display of inhumanity. Then there's his using the Daily Prophet and Rita Skeeter as his own way of publicly trashing Harry and Hermoine. There was no pause in behavior when he knew he could get at them in this manner. His treatment of Neville has been wonderful also. I believe he called him a fat larder? JERK. His other behavior is the fact that he steals. In PS/SS he takes Neville's rememberall. In CoS he rips a page out of the book and takes that package off the table in the Sylthterin common room. I wonder what that is all about.

Yes, I think he can be redeemed but I don't think he want to. Because, it is easier more than it is right and it is our choices who makes us who we are (paraphrasing DD). It is easy to act the way he does than doing what's right and risking backlash from Daddy, Snape. and the Syltherins. He is a coward and will makes choices that keep in safe in power and money.

Barbara Kennedy
May 13th, 2003, 6:59 am
Draco could simply be there to show the effects of taking the easy road, but I'm one of those "warm-fuzzy types" who hope to see him become something better.

Fuchsia
May 13th, 2003, 7:06 am
I think SusanC may be right about Draco having to lose something. Right now he has more to gain from being evil than good. This kid sees things from a "What is in it for me?" angle.

ai_darkholme
May 14th, 2003, 2:58 am
I just Love Draco :crush: and I think he's not going to be the same in further book, i don't know why, it's just a feeling I have.

PS. for the one that started this thread I LiKe YoUr AvAtAr!!!!!
I think Orlando is soooo Hot!!! hehe, also, I love my siggy ;)

AvidSkyRise
May 14th, 2003, 4:28 am
Personally I think Draco is what JK Rowling makes him out to be, a slimey, nasty git who wouldn't know decency if it bit him on the nose and someonw who doesn't like Harry or Hermoine and could possibly follow Voldemort

Filius Flitwick
May 14th, 2003, 4:41 am
I don't think Draco will ever be on the good side...his hate of mudbloods runs deep and it isn't likely to change. True, he could help out Harry at a point...but that would likely be during a moment where he feared for his own life.

I've said it in other posts. If you like Draco then there is no way you can't like Fleur. If you say she's a bad person and he's somehow misunderstood then you are basing that solely off of Tom Felton and not the character in the book. Sorry, it's just that there seems to be some double standards when these two characters are brought up.

Anywho, like I said, bad and likely will never change.

Lady Greyjoy
May 14th, 2003, 5:29 am
Draco is one of the most underdeveloped characters in HP, I find it hard to judge him. Yes he says awful things, and he is a monumental snob, but remember we only see him through Harry's point of veiw, imagine viewing Harry from Malfoy's Point of veiw:)

What i'm trying to get at (trying :)) is that people shouldn't bandy about words like Evil on their sleave, so far Draco is a spoiled prejudiced brat but until he kills someone with relish or orders it done, i won't pronounce him evil.

In my opinion the sour and the sweet are found in everyone, ergo, written characters who echo this are the most intresting...why i like snape and ron more than harry

inlovewithdraco
June 20th, 2003, 4:11 pm
i think that draco is going to be good i hope he is really cute and it would be a nice change of pace:)

InvasionOfTheGuru4
June 20th, 2003, 5:42 pm
I think Draco will somehow help Harry defeat Voldemort - indirectly, like give him valuable info.

R3mus Lup!n
June 24th, 2003, 10:44 am
Draco is not *Really evil*.Those type of evil that will try to take over the world and blah blah blah.Its probably becoz of his father and his jealousy of harry that makes him so bad.

SusanC
June 26th, 2003, 4:31 pm
In OotP he becomes more developed and more of a nasty person. There is one scene where we come to understand that his bragging of having someone important over for dinner is false (ends up being a friend of Neville's grandmother who never mentions the family). He is quite the Machiavelli where the ends justifies the means. Even when things go wrong for him he has an arrogance about him that just makes you want to slap. He is too eager to grab power and authority no matter how wrong it is. I think will see more of this in him.

vickygirl4
June 27th, 2003, 9:02 pm
I used to think that he wasn't evil and I felt sorry for him. After all, Harry did refuse to shake his hand. But after OotP (I won't say what happened because it's a spoiler), I know he is evil evil evil, just like his daddy.

Lily Evans
June 27th, 2003, 11:01 pm
Draco is a good person on the inside. I mean really, really, really, really deep down, he is a good person. 0.1% good, 99.9% evil. How good can he be if he is the son of a Death-eater. His dad gives me the creeps and is 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 % evil and 000000000000000% good

Inkwolf
June 28th, 2003, 12:13 am
Please remember, Draco fans, POST NO SPOILERS! Let others be surprised by what happens in OoP, please.

HPButterfly
June 28th, 2003, 2:41 am
Man! I think it's about time people stop blaming Lucius for all of Draco's character flaws. Yeah, sure, his family doesn't exactly have a socially progressive view of things, but dude! The boy is fifteen years old now AND goes to a public (ina manner of speaking) school! He learns from all these people who do have the right set of values and still chooses to be a prick about things. I admit, I used to think that he'd turn over in the end, maybe help out Harry because Harry did him a favor, but I change my mind. He only cares about himself. Heck, I think he'd rather run away with his tail between his legs rather than stand and fight with Dumbledore and Harry, if it came down to it.

Personally, I think his rudeness has something to do with low self esteem. You know how it goes, people who don't feel good about themselves try to feel good about themselves by making others feel bad.

As for Dudley, Crabbe, and Goyle... Dudley could probably be *ahem* heavily persuaded to do the right thing, much like his parents. I'm not sure about Crabbe and Goyle exactly... I think they're too thick to really decide what's important to them personally, or maybe they're just like Draco, since their parents are also Death Eaters. They're a little to flat to tell, though...

S-Lucia
June 29th, 2003, 2:52 pm
Hello, this is my first post ever on CoS, so please excuse me if I'm just repeating something already said in another thread. I found your entire discussion very interessting so far, and cannot add too much new to it, but
1) my personal experience (and I'm in my mid-twenties, so a little has been going on in that time) shows that people DO change. My best friend today is a guy I was frightened of all my schooltime until I was 17. He was the biggest bully I have ever met, and the worst thing was, that he was very witty in being mean. Boys like Dudley or Goyle arn't so threatening, all they can do is beat you up (bad enough) but they lack the talent of humiliating people, which is a bigger wound and scar for your later life. Point is: my friend HAS changed completely, if you met him today you would judge him as a very charming and funny young man. He finally found things that satisfied him to put his energy in, and I found out that his arrogance was just a way of self-protection because he didn't like himself and what he was doing at all and tried to cope with it in making everybody else feeling just as miserable (and when I remind him of his behaviour ten years ago he will blush and be very ashamed and say things like "what do I have to do so you will forgive at last?"). And I'm very sure that if you asked some of his victims of those times today they'd answer you that they hope he will drop down dead, what is easy enough to understand because they never met the "other" side of him and probably just remember him making their life hell, and it's alright they feel like that. So far for the real-life bullies. Nobody is completely hopeless.
2) as far as I've understood the ideas of Dumbledores speech (for example) at the end of GoF, he was talking about the need of cooperation between the different houses, and that includes Slytherin as well. On the adult-side we see Snape - and I have to say that I love this character because he is so complex and well-written - but as Draco is the only Slytherin kid we know more of (and I'm sure, JKR made to much effort to describe him and leave out the others almost completely to change her mind now) he MUST play an important role in the future of this cooperation required, just as logical thing.
- Dumbledore is supposed to be the best head master ever. All of you agreed that up-bringing is very important to what you become like, so Dumbledore wouldn't be such a brilliant teacher if he couldn't even get grip on a little spoiled brat like Draco, would he?
- As someone pointed out in the discussion: Snape seems to see something special in Draco, maybe feeling parental-like to this boy who must remind him of himself. I always thought that he would try to withdraw him a little from his fathers influence, and in the character of Snape you can see very clearly that you can be a unpleasant man still standing on the "right" side.
- When you look at the names (JKR seems to have thought a lot about these, choosing them not only because of a good sound or so) you will find that the name "Draco" has a double meaning, so it might be that the character has two sides as well. But anyway, the name of a person has a kind of impact; parents choose it for certain reasons. Growing up with a name like his is supposed to push him to a certain direction (never heard of parents calling their son Nero - but a father like Lucius might well chose it). ArabellaBlack said somewhere above a very clever thing about the family name of the Malfoys and I definetely agree with her (I once read a book written by the daughter of Stalin: it is a curse to have a name like that!).
My conclusion of all this (sorry if you feel bored by my long posting/thanks for reading up to here!) is that Draco will probably change sides, and with the same certainty I guess he will never become a friend of Harry as well. He HAS to turn to the light side because of the moral of the books so far, and he HAS to stay with his resentements towards Harry because it would be too much to be asked for (both boys have their scars, compare Snape and Sirius).
It would be very interessting to discuss this topic when talking about OotP isn't spoiling anymore.

69sirius69
July 4th, 2003, 6:23 am
All I can say about Draco is that when I found out someone dies in the 5th Harry Potter book, I was hoping it would be Draco.

Noodlez
July 4th, 2003, 6:40 pm
This probolly has nothing to do with the topic ^-^'' but I think crabbe and goyle are funny in a stupid way and more people should like them as characters. Mabye dudley needs to hang out with them XD

I cant help likeing draco as my fav character.. and not just because hes suposedly "hott". I started to like him when he was turned into a ferret. X3 I love ferrets. lol

Unopened Letter
July 5th, 2003, 3:52 am
I would like to see Draco end up on the good side. I'm just a sucker for people who reform and get a second chance in life. It's all a very typical plot line for a children's story too, so there may be a chance J.K. might go this way. I do understand though, that if Draco ends up on the bad side, then that's what he character was meant to be.

I honestly think he's a lot like Snape. He can be on the good side and do good things for Dumbledore, but it doesn't mean he has to like Harry. Just because he does good things does not mean he can't be there to counter his nemisis.

Now, for a little character analyzing.

I agree with the people who say Draco wants friends. If you look in the first book, in the robes shop, Draco was the one who initiated the conversation with Harry. He didn't know who Harry was, just wanted a chance to talk to someone new and possibly get this "new kid" to be on his side.

I also think Harry made an unfair judgement of Draco from the start. ("My father's next door buying my books and my mother's up the street looking at wands... then I'm going to drag them off to look at racing brooms. I don't see why first years can't have their own. I think I'll bully father into getting me one and I'll smuggle it in somehow") Harry's reaction? "Harry was strongly reminded of Dudley.

Actually, Draco's little speech there is the speech of a very typical 11 year old, IMO. I believe I was like that when I was 11. I believe my friends were like that when they were 11. It's only because Harry never really "got" things and Dudley got excessive things that he think Draco is acting like Dudley (ie spoiled brat)

Also, later on the train, when Harry is sitting with Ron, and Draco enters, it seems like he WANTS to be Harry's friend. ("You don't want to go making friends with the wrong sort. I can help you there.") Draco offers his hand to Harry as a guesture of courtesy. Harry refuses this friendship because he sees Draco as arrogant and spoiled. THIS is the point where Draco turns mean to Harry. He extended his invitation to be Harry's friend and Harry refused. Although his comments towards muggles and the Weasleys were quite insulting, I believe that he truly wanted to be Harry's friend until Harry refused it. I mean, if I extended my courtesy and the other person refused it, I would I would take the route Draco did too. If you don't want to be my friend, that means you're my enemy.

Although Harry is the main character of the series, I think he deserved Draco's resentment somewhat. He obviously never heard of the phrase "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

Also, J.K. wrote Draco so he can be either way. The typical school bully, or the misunderstood soul who's just looking for friends. At this point, it could go either way, but I seriously hope that it goes a little cliche and she chooses to write him as the misunderstood soul.

Moonlight
July 19th, 2003, 4:18 am
I don't understand why people think he's 'hot'.
Have you met Mafoy? Isn't he a fitional character? Or I you talking about Tom Felton?.

A lot of people (or slytherin fans) see Draco in a light that I fail to understand.
'Cool and Collected'. How is he? He and (to some extent) his father are terrible at keeping their temper. Fo example, the ferret business.

I've only seen him smirk and laugh at other's misfortunes. Never something actually clever or shows intelligence.

I'm all up for reedeming Draco, but I can't see any of the talents that so many people assume he has.

Juliet Malfoy
July 19th, 2003, 7:22 pm
Originally posted by Moonlight (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=467975#post467975))
I don't understand why people think he's 'hot'.
Have you met Mafoy? Isn't he a fitional character? Or I you talking about Tom Felton?.


i think both. ive come to identify draco as the sexy tom.:crush:

anyway, yes. id love for draco to open up. maybe become good. but then again, the day he shakes hands with harry is the day we'll catch snape in a tu-tu.

but it's not dracos fault he is the way is is.. what do you expect will happen when your father is a deatn eater and your mom isn't any better?

but then again.. One may contradict this
: cuz look at sirius and his family..)

either way..it doesnt stop him being hot:)

rachael_22090
July 29th, 2003, 7:29 pm
I have read a ton of peoples opinions on this matter and i want to know what you think about draco... Some people say he is just a little brat that nobody can stand and he deserves what he gets. others say he is a missunderstood child whose father abuses him and he acts the way he does because of a cry for help (not sure about that one) and some think he is one of the best charactors and they love everything about him. so tell me your opinion! i want to know! :D

Bee
July 29th, 2003, 7:38 pm
Draco is just one of those kids that comes froma stuffy, horrible family and was destined to become a stuffy, horrible kid. Look at his father. And people wonder where he gets it...

Prof.Blink
July 29th, 2003, 7:46 pm
I LOVE to HATE that annoying little brat. He is a wimp, (why else would he constantly hide behind Crabbe and Goyle.... they're so thick!), he has a huge chip on his shoulder and his main aim in life seems to be to annoy harry....hasn't he got anything better to do?

However, the books wouldn't be the same without him.... the train journeys would be boring for a start.

dobby_rocks
July 29th, 2003, 7:53 pm
I love hate him as well. I mean look who has raised him can he help it, then agian look at Siruis family, he turned out ok.

Draco is just someone people love to hate or simple hate.

He acts tougher then he is, and i think he dosent know as much as he bluffs about

Mistress Snivellus
July 29th, 2003, 8:02 pm
I think Draco embodies the spirit of any school bully who gets his/her rocks off at the emotional expense of others. He is a marvelous character in that aspect! I sincerely believe we've all come across a few Draco's in our lifetimes. That's why people love to hate him, or hate to love him - that's why his character invokes such rage. He's supposed to! There's something about Draco's character that people can relate to on a realistic level. As horrible as it sounds, it wouldn't be "school" if it weren't for the prats like Draco.

I think it is obvious why he is the way he is and it doesn't require any degree in rocket science to figure it out. There are not a whole lot of facets to his character - not a lot of mystique surrounding him, he's fairly one sided and his sole purpose thus far is to annoy Harry and connect Lucious into the picture. As far as him coming from an outwardly abusive home, I have to disagree. It's obvious in the books that Draco's father has his best interests (however vicariously his father lives through him) at heart. I'm not saying what's in the heart is right, but I don't think it's quite fair yet to say Draco's mother and father are hideous parents toward Draco. Maybe hideous people in the sense they uphold wizard purity and Lucious is a Death Eater and Narcissa carries herself like a Manhattan socialite who's had too much plastic surgery, but that's beside the parenting point.

I think as the next two books unfold, Draco will be a deeper, more multidimensional character. I predict he's headed for terrible things to avenge what happened to his father. As for now, the first 5 books have been a primer to how terrible Draco can be. Of course Rowling could prove me wrong and Draco will see the errors of his behaviour. But I would hope big things are going to be in store for Draco's dark future.

Anniemal
July 29th, 2003, 8:40 pm
I think as the next two books unfold, Draco will be a deeper, more multidimensional character. I predict he's headed for terrible things to avenge what happened to his father. As for now, the first 5 books have been a primer to how terrible Draco can be. Of course Rowling could prove me wrong and Draco will see the errors of his behaviour. But I would hope big things are going to be in store for Draco's dark future.

I completely agree. So far, Draco is a flat character. He's just really annoying to Harry, a spittin' image of his father. I love to hate him as well. However, it'd be cool to see if he could mend his ways or break the Malfoy mold.

DaManDan521
July 29th, 2003, 8:44 pm
he is pretty much just an abused child that only knows evil, harry was raised around really nothing sop he inveted himself but draco couldnt do that

neville*longbottom
July 29th, 2003, 8:46 pm
I think that the end of book 5 summed up what will happen with Draco...

I believe that he (along with the children of the rest of the deatheaters) will become deatheaters (or atleast junior ones, much like DA)...

Draco is a bully, but so is Dudley... Draco is more than a bully, he's (as much as I hate to use this word) evil...

He reminds me of Snape... No real talent to speak of (atleast not in school) (see Harry's look in the Pensieve to see how he struggled) He likes to feel superior over others by taking advantage of his position, which now has backfired, because his father is locked up, his mother is a probable suspect, and his family has lost its hold in the ministry...

Of course he could go the way of Sirius/James and become the unexpected hero (again see pensieve)

Serpentine
July 29th, 2003, 9:00 pm
I think that the end of book 5 summed up what will happen with Draco...

He reminds me of Snape... No real talent to speak of (atleast not in school) (see Harry's look in the Pensieve to see how he struggled) He likes to feel superior over others by taking advantage of his position, which now has backfired, because his father is locked up, his mother is a probable suspect, and his family has lost its hold in the ministry...

Of course he could go the way of Sirius/James and become the unexpected hero (again see pensieve)

Well, neither do I think that Snape has "no real talent to speak of " (Pensieve: DADA OWL, he wrote lots more than others even with tiny handwriting, moreover he is Potions Master and a fine dueller), nor do I see Sirius and James as "unexpected heroes" (the way they treated Snape in the Pensieve and at the Shrieking Shack was hardly heroic!). But I do agree that so far Draco is a little bit too flat as a character. About his skills we haven't seen very much - do Potions with a Slytherin-biased Snape count? -, but I can see Draco coming into his own in future books. After all, we have seen hardly any "good guys" in Slytherin so far (actually only stereotypical meanies or dunderheads), and the DA included all Houses except Slytherin, even though the Hat's song was about unity of the Houses. I don't know whether in the end he will be a goodie or a baddie, but I can definitely see him develop more as a character.

cordeliablack13
July 29th, 2003, 9:09 pm
I love Draco Malfoy! But I generally tend to like the characters that everyone else hates!

I agree that Draco has been a flat character so far. I think he has a lot more to offer and will become a much more well-rounded character. I haven't made any predictions about Draco, but I think no matter what he does in the next 2 books, it's going to blow us all away!

M a r v o l o
July 30th, 2003, 1:09 am
I love Draco. I think he's highly entertaining and very funny. Although he is two dimensional pretty much right now, I think he'll have a greater role eventually.

rachael_22090
August 1st, 2003, 12:34 pm
i think that the reason he is so evil is because the only adults he has ever known durring his childhood were deatheaters and fowllers of the dark arts. maybe event though harry had it worse the reason he didnt react the same as malfoy was because he knew that those people were not his real family... and maybe the reason malfoy is "evil" is because the adults he was around that were "evil" liked him and they were his parents so he trusted them and grew up thinking that the way they acted was right.

and it is true in the ps/ss he offered harry a friendship. even though he did it in a rude way towards ron. but still i would dislike harry greatly if i offered him a hand and he just completely blew me off.

nightingale
August 1st, 2003, 3:49 pm
I don't know what to think of him anymore. He's one of the most, if not the most, underdeveloped characters OoTP, the book where everyone developed, grew up, etc. He just stayed the same. Well, one could say that he choose the side of evil after threatening Harry at the end of the book for sending his father for prison, but I don't think so. How else would he have reacted? He just seems really immature at the moment, at least, when compared to Harry. Up till now he's had no reason no to be that way. Hopefully in book 6 and 7, when his father, most likely, loses his influence with the Ministry, which Draco seems to love and rely on heavily to get things done, we'll see him develop more, choose sides, etc, since things won't be so happy-go-lucky anymore.

P.S. Why are we using spoiler codes? I thought this was an OoTP discussion..

JenJen
August 1st, 2003, 4:27 pm
I honestly think that Malfoy is evil, and that part about him isn't going to change. He was raised in an environment that made him evil, so he believes that the way he's acting is the correct way to act. His father is mean and cold-hearted, and those traits were passed on to him.

Girl
August 1st, 2003, 4:48 pm
I too believe that Draco is evil and that's the way he'll stay. He was brought up by evil and that will be hard to change his way of think as he believes what's he's doing is right.
I think that in the next two books Draco will do something which will show us how evil he really is. Those people who thought he was misunderstood or he can change will be in for a big shock. Even JK said 'I think you're all getting far too fond of Draco.' To me this comment looks like Draco will end up doing something bad.

I believe that Draco will support Voldermort because not only does he want power but he believes that wizards should only be pure-bloods and wants to rid the world of mud-blood and half-bloods. I don't see Draco as being misunderstood or a person who can change, but as a child who was brought up on evil and so believes that evil is right. Since he was brought up on evil and that's all he knows it will be too hard for him to change and I don't think he wan't to either. Draco in the end will go to Voldermort even more now since it came out that his dad is a Death Eater and their family has lost face in the wizard world.

braggyboy
August 1st, 2003, 5:17 pm
I think the liking of Draco Malfoy comes from the films partly. The actor who plays him does not come across as the slightest bit evil.

Girl
August 1st, 2003, 5:39 pm
That's the problem with the movies it gives us the false idea of a person. For example my sister only just stared reading the HP book and before that she had only seen the movies. From only watching the movies she thoughtvthat Hermione was very annoying but after reading the books found her to be not as much annoying as in the movies.
She also used to take pity on Draco but after reading the books feels that he's not such a nice guy like in the movie.
In the movie Draco comes across as being misunderstood but in the books he's not so much misunderstood but more evil. The movie tends to not show people in their true light which makes it harder for people to see what they are really like in the books.

bellatrix669
August 2nd, 2003, 1:29 am
I definitely don't think Draco will change and become Harry's friend or even ally himself with Dumbledore; to do so would mean admitting that the revered Malfoy family name really doesn't mean much and force Draco to rely on his merits, and not the influence of money and an old wizarding line. Besides, Draco was probably brought up to hate Harry, whereas other children grew up thinking of Harry as a savior. In short, in order for Draco to even remotely think about leaving the Dark side, he would have to question 15 years worth of teachings from his father and mother, a very hard thing to do for anyone, especially about one's entire worldview. Draco just doesn't have the strength or inclination to undertake that kind of self-introspection.

vickygirl4
August 2nd, 2003, 11:25 am
I used to think that Draco would go over to the good side in the end and that he wasn't evil, just mean, but after OotP I'm convinced that he really is evil. He did say that Harry would pay for putting Lucius in Azkaban and he really respects his father, even though he is an evil death eater.

Lord Vetinari
August 2nd, 2003, 12:13 pm
I'm interested to see what would have happened if, when Draco and Harry first met, they became friends somehow. I'm not aware of Slytherins ever becoming friends with those who aren't in their house, but what would have happened if Draco, a Slytherin, had become a friend of Harry, a Gryffindor?

jordmundt6
August 2nd, 2003, 12:32 pm
It's an interesting thought experiment, but fortunately that's all it is. I'm more interested to see if now that Draco has fully shown his true colors (not that he didn't before but, this is unequivocal) whether there will still be those who see him as the next Severus and advocate (and predict) for his redemption.

Edit: Braggboy--It appears the producers and director were alerted to Felton's appeal after the first movie because both the actor and director went out of their way to counteract this effect in CoS (particularly in the Christmas scene). Apparently, it didn't work.

Cish_hp92
August 2nd, 2003, 12:41 pm
Draco Is A Very Real Character.....you Come Across Those Types Of Bullies Very Often In Your Daily Life....at School, At Your Workplace, Anywhere. He Is Not An Actual Stud, But Tries To Believe That He Is Superior. He Has Many Insecurities, But Whether His Actual Natur Is B-a-d Is Yet To Be Seen. He's A Very Interesting Character And One Can Easily Identify With Him, As Everyone Has Met A Real Draco Atleast Once In Their Lifetime. He's A Typical School Bully , A Spoilt, Rich, Brat, With A Perpetual Knack For Cooking Up Trouble. But He Can Be Quite Funn At Times, Specially When He Gives His Come-uppances To His Gryffindor Counterparts. He Is Quite Cute Int He Movie(tom Felton). This Makes His Character Much More Likeable

Perdita
August 2nd, 2003, 12:53 pm
I don't think that Draco Malfoy is evil. I think that he's just too proud for his own good. His pride has blinded him and he fails to see just how important is Harry's cause to prevent Voldemort from ruining both the muggle and wizarding worlds.

I used to think that Malfoy was only clever when he had to make up jokes to taunt his peers. In OOTP, however, in Umbridge's office, we see that he is even more clever than Umbridge in that he never let his guard down. It was Umbridge's arrogance that allowed Hermione to work her plan and succeed.

I wonder if Rowling will show us more of this clever and possibly even cunning side of Malfoy later on in the series. I have a feeling that, based on how he's been presented as being so prideful and arrogant, he will try and set up a trap for Harry or one of the other "good guys" only to fail at his plan. The result will be both surprising and disastrous for him.

After 5 books and still no signs of redemption. I doubt it will take place over the course of 2 books.

Aruna
August 2nd, 2003, 1:00 pm
I have to say I´m quite sorry for the way Draco turned out to be in book five, for he has become such a cliché in my eyes. He basically just being Umbridge´s lackey, as far as I can remember, and not doing much of interest beside that.

And the threat about his father at the end of OotP - well, Draco´s threats have never proven to be really threatening, have they?

J.K Rowling should definitely decided what to do with Draco - whether to give him a real background (I personally would love to have a whole chapter about the Malfoys and their beliefs) or to turn him into the obligatory nemesis with no point at all.

I felt in book 5 he was being rather stuck between those two options, somehow like the whole book, which was trying to serve both audiences, children and adults. And I so hope there won´t be anything like "Oh, I see, my father´s evil, so I´ll just go and make friends with Harry Potter and be a nice guy".

GonzoBean
August 3rd, 2003, 1:40 am
Maybe in the future books he will develop more as a character. We found out that his mother was related to the Blacks, so maybe there will be more going on about that...maybe. I agree, that his character is very much like a cliche. Those one-liners about Harry and his friends...just not that terrifying anymore. We need some more action!

Amadeus
August 3rd, 2003, 1:53 am
well, but the problem is, Lucius was probably raised the way Draco is raised... I personally both Malfoys.... They are somewhat interesting.... evil and they have a thing about themselves that makes them interesting... I was sorry to see not as much Draco or Lucius in the book as I have hoped... But there is no doubt that both Malfoys will remain one of the principal characters of the book until the very end.

jordmundt6
August 3rd, 2003, 2:43 am
And Draco is quite threatening with the right license. I think he will become more imposing, or at least more troublesome as the last two books unfold, not less.

Mutant for Hire
August 3rd, 2003, 5:38 am
Draco has come off as quite the petty lightweight, a spoiled brat without much spine.

In Draco's defense, there's a good question of why he would have been anything else, at least in the first four books. Voldemort almost certainly knew of Draco Malfoy, but scorned contacting the boy. For that matter, Quirrell/Voldemort could have easily contacted the other free Death Eaters but clearly didn't. Draco had no clue about the Philosopher's Stone and had no reason to cause trouble there. In book two, Draco was ordered by his father to do nothing. In book three, it is doubtful that Draco knew the truth about Sirius Black and in fact was hoping that Black would actually kill Harry. In book four, again, Draco had no clue about Voldemort's scheme, and for that matter, neither did Lucius Malfoy.

Draco wasn't going to risk being expelled for anything that wasn't important to him. Draco grew up in the lap of luxury and wasn't going to do anything to endanger that. All he had to do was ride out school, score enough NEWTs to be respectable, and then settle down to being a professional aristocrat like his father or at worst, a job in the Ministry. He hated Harry, but he wasn't going to do anything serious against Harry. Possibly his father told him not to do anything stupid there either.

So he played petty social games of humiliation. That's pretty much all Draco could do without risking expulsion himself. Yes, it would be nice to get Harry expelled, but given all the things that Dumbledore has let Harry get away with, it's not clear what would work and it could easily backfire on Draco. Draco looks after Draco first, and he would not do anything that would seriously endanger his future. So he decided to torment Harry in ways that would make it difficult for Harry to strike back, such as petty social games.

In book five, things have changed. Lucius Malfoy is working for Voldemort again. I expect that Voldemort is not going to overlook the children of the Death Eaters as potential assets. But all he would have these kids doing at the moment is just to monitor Harry. I expect they were quietly keeping watch on who he spent time with, what he did, how he reacted. No doubt Voldemort was especially interested in seeing how Harry was the day after one of those false visions. But Voldemort would order the junior Death Eaters not to cross Umbridge and to extend to her every bit of cooperation. Still, there was nothing that said they couldn't torment Ron's Quidditch skills.

To Draco, this was all a game. Something to remember is that Draco has been coddled and protected his whole life. The first and only time he's ever faced danger was in the forest in the first book, and he's probably put that behind him. He had a nice cushy job passing information along to Voldemort. Voldemort would take over and the Malfoy family would be exalted and he'd have a nice place for having done nothing more than snoop around a bit.

Of course now his father was caught and his family is disgraced. They have their wealth, but the bulk of Lucius' influence is gone, except for those who Lucius has blackmail information on or are scared enough of his power that even as a renegade on the run from the Aurors he can bend them to his will. But for the most part the Malfoy family is going to be shunned by polite wizarding society. All of the influence that Lucius Malfoy could use on behalf of his son is now gone. Draco's position in society in some ways is lower than that of Ron Weasley's.

In many ways, book five was about the students growing up and not depending on the adults around you and doing things for yourself. Draco was not spared of that lesson himself. In all the previous books, it was Draco in the end falling back on what his father could arrange for him. That is no longer possible. Draco, like Harry and his friends, must now develop his own strengths. And the only way for his family to regain its prestige is for Voldemort to win. It has just stopped being a game to Draco. Now it's far more serious for Draco. He has far less to lose now. He doesn't have an easy comfortable future unless Voldemort wins. And he's going to be relying more on himself now.

So I expect that Draco is going to drive himself to learn the Dark Arts this summer. Of course there are laws against underage use of magic, but I would be very shocked if there were no countermeasures. I expect there are ways to block the detection spells, and that Draco will make use of them. I expect that Draco is going to master the Unforgivable Curses very quickly. I also think that Voldemort is going to recognize Draco's burning zeal to get revenge for his father's disgrace and make use of it. Voldemort might even give the boy a few personal lessons if he proves himself worthy enough with other teachers such as his father and his aunt Bellatrix. I would not be surprised if Draco goes through rather gruelling training this summer.

I think that Draco will be giving up on the childish "Potter Stinks" and "Weasley is our King" sorts of games. If nothing else, a lot of Slytherins aren't going to want to back any schemes that the child of a Death Eater comes up with to mock Harry Potter or for that matter, anyone else. He would like to be the one to do something horrible to Harry Potter, but that is reserved for his master. Possibly even Neville Longbottom is reserved by Voldemort as well, due to the prophecy.

Still, that leaves Ron Weasley. Ron and Draco in some ways are more paired opposites than Harry and Draco. Ron and Draco are both from pureblood families involved in politics, both of them prefects, and just about total opposites in every other way. The Malfoy family is in descent and the Weasley family may well be ascending now. Arthur Weasley's connections to Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore are no logner the liabilities that they used to be. If Ron's family goes up in the world, Draco is going to be very unhappy with Ron and will want to do something to make Ron very unhappy. Possibly involving Hermione Granger, whose existance has been something of an annoyance to Draco, a mudblood who kept doing better than him in classes.

Even so, Voldemort is going to be holding Draco's leash. While Voldemort has no qualms about expending his servants, I do not think he is one to waste them carelessly, or for that matter, cause them to waste themselves before they have outlived their usefulness to him. He's going to place strong orders on what Draco can and can't do at Hogwarts. Still, as the two people that Voldemort wants dead the most are at Hogwarts, Dumbledore and Potter, he's going to need an agent in place to help arrange his plans. Of course Draco is a bit obvious, but then Draco does make the perfect decoy and distraction. Draco will draw attention while Voldemort's less suspected agents move quietly in the shadows with Voldemort's real plot.

If Draco ends up expelled at the end of book six, which is entirely a possibility. That just makes him more dangerous in book seven. Draco these days is constrained by a need to follow school rules and not to get in trouble with the Ministry of Magic. If Draco ends up kicked out of Hogwarts, and probably on the run from the Ministry of Magic, he will have absolutely zero reason to hold back the next time he shows up.

ilovesirius
August 3rd, 2003, 7:36 am
I agree that Draco seems very 2D and unlike most of the other characters, he is only "evil". With characters like Sirius and James, we see them being complete prats and in my opinion, even worse bullies than Draco when they were in school. However, they sort of grew up and developed. Most of JK's characters aren't only good or only evil and I'm hoping she'll blur the lines for Draco a bit as well. As Dumbledore says, it's our choices that show who we really are and hopefully, in the next books we'll see Draco making the choices.

Personally, I don't believe most of the stuff he says to the Trio. It seems to me he is trying to put on a front and to preserve his reputation. Even if he was very arrogant, I'm inclined to believe that he would have been a very loyal friend had Harry chosen to accept him. I also think that if they had made friends, Harry would have been placed in Slytherin and it would have been much more interesting then...

A lot of people have also commented on how Kreacher's not really to be blamed because of his environment. Well, in a similar way, Draco has been surrounded by people preaching to him about how to be evil etc. and he has to a great extent been influenced by this. Kreacher does have his own binds but Draco in a way is more restricted. Kreacher knows that Sirius and the rest of the Order would probably not kill/harm him greatly but Draco (like the other Death Eaters) live in perpetual fear. Punishment from both his father and Lord Voldemort are two things he'd be very afraid of.

People have also pointed out that in GoF, he warns Harry and Ron to get Hermione away even if he's just being insulting about it. It is possible that he is not as evil as his parents and he certainly didn't join them in the "celebration" but who knows? Another more far-fetched theory is that he knew that he wasn't actually talking to Crabbe and Goyle. He does say he hopes it's Hermione that's killed but like GoF, in a roundabout way, it could be taken as a warning. After all, shortly afterwards, Hermione is attacked. I think this might be a bit too far-fetched though... still, who knows?

I just think that Draco's not beyond redemption yet. Look at Snape first. Snape even joined the Death Eater's for crying out loud! But obviously, he's changed. People change drastically - what about Peter for instance... and it's not just about childhood influence. Tom Riddle certainly didn't have any Death Eaters running around telling him to take over the world when he was a kid and how did he turn out? I hope that whatever happens, JK will develop his character further and get Pansy Parkinson away from him!!!! :lol:

Metabee
August 3rd, 2003, 11:40 am
FOR GOD SAKE!!! The guy is a horrible person. WHY WON'T YOU SEE THAT!!! J. K. Rowling says the fans love Malfoy too much, HE SUCKS!!

Phoenix Angel
August 3rd, 2003, 1:24 pm
I want to know why no one ever says these things about Dudley, Goyle or Crabbe? I can't help but feel it is because they are ugly.
They are so much like him but have it a million times worse.
I don't feel sorry for Draco at all. I know plenty of people who have been through *way* more and are perfectly nice people. What excuse does he really have?

i agree with all of that.

some people only think draco may turn out nice because they like the guy who plays him in the movie, it's obvious from the books he's a nasty little............... and i don't think he'll change except to maybe get worse because so far he hasn't really been "evil" he's just a jealous nasty kid but i think he'll get a lot worse.

heirofslytherin_dm
August 3rd, 2003, 1:30 pm
I'm not sure I agree. And it isn't because I like the guy who played him in the movie. So far all I can see of his nastiness, is that it was how he was raised. But I'm not so sure that given a choice between "good" and his father he won't choose the former. From all I can see it's just his father's influence. And that could all change depending on what happens with Draco in the next book.

Arilyn
September 2nd, 2003, 9:52 am
If Draco was a girl, would you still think he was just misunderstood?

Rebel
September 3rd, 2003, 2:37 am
Thats a good question. I have no idea.

It would be different, maybe Lucius wouldn't hold Draco-her so closely....i don't know about that one...

Maybe Harry and Draco wouldn't have even met. They would have in the robe shop....but on the train, as an 11-year-old girl you usually don't go around making fun of people that you don't know very well (not saying that men are careless).

But Harry and Co. still hate Pansy, who is just as bad as Draco, just as mean anyways.

Thats a very good question, Arilyn!

jordmundt6
September 3rd, 2003, 2:50 am
But even some monsters show an uncomfortable fit in becoming a product of the people who raised them. To take a very recent fiction example--Ken Follet's William Hamleigh the "villain" of Pillars of the Earth has his ideas molded by his loutish father, Percy; his domineering, selfish, petulant mother, Regan; and his sadistic protector, Walter. He sets off on a path of destrction and murder and meets a nightmarish end, a justified exection for murdering a saint. However, even as the path he treads becomes more familiar, he finds himself uncomfortable with it, enviosioning alternatives. He envisions the same kind of relationship with women that the hero has and even tries to put them into practice once. Spurned, he resorts to violence and every time his better angels struggle through his lust and hatred, he is unnerved by the absolute vulnerability to which he would have to stoop in order to foster a truly loving relationship. He balks at the change and becomes set in his ways.

That's an example of a villain who is somewhat aware that the path he has chosen may be wrong, has some capacity for love, and fears everlasting judgment. Draco has shown none of these symptoms. He's slipped seamlessly, almost effortlessly into becoming a carbon copy of his father. He relishes cruelty, evil, and power for their own sake. He has no qualms about his future. If anything, he's more sure now than he was before that he has chosen the correct path, the winning side, and he cannot wait to shame Potter and pick off his friends.

Mrs Draco Malfoy
September 3rd, 2003, 7:27 am
There has definately got to be something behind Draco's bullying. Take Snape for example, I think he's all bad-*** mostly because of the way he was treated at school, and probably at home as well. I agree that his dad has something to do with it but maybe he's also a bit scared of something. Failure? Rejection? Also I would like to think that when it comes down to it Draco would go against his father and try and destroy Voldemort... but hey... maybe I'm a little bit biased.

Lord Vetinari
September 3rd, 2003, 5:45 pm
I don't think he would. I think that if any 'bad' child will surprise us, it would be Dudley.

Lupins Ladee
September 3rd, 2003, 8:36 pm
Hmm I agree that Dudley is going to surprise us. I dunno why but I think Dudley does care for Harry on some level. I mean they have been raised togeather since they were one.
But i also think Draco will not become a deatheater or he will and he will regret it. I think this b/c the Deatheaters isn't all about the torture and murder it is also about the sucking up to old Master Volde. First, I don't think Draco has the balls to kill anyone. And Second, I don't think he would take very well to kiss a scary snake-like old mans robes and quivering and begging. He is too spoiled and privledged to handle that sort of thing. I don't know what will become of him. I think maybe love will change him. Maybe he will fall for a certain pretty little weasley who seems to becomeing quite the player.

jordmundt6
September 4th, 2003, 5:58 am
Mrs. DM--I'm sorry but I just can't see the parallel with young Snape anymore. I really can't. Snape was a bright recluse with a bad homelife and esteem problems who engaged in a seven-year war with a popular kid who picked him as a favorite victim. Draco is a spoiled brat who probably never had a moment's discomfort before he boarded the Hogwarts Express the first time. Draco's own malice is being turned against him while Snape is lashing out at a situation he can't control. Snape formed real bonds at school and it hurt when he went too far and endangered them. What's Draco attached to? His broomstick?

As I said, some villains are uncomfortable with their dark sides and, even if they can't control them, learn to regret them and explore other options (at least mentally).

Draco has never had one second's reservation about who he is or what he does. He's a petty villain. That's it, that's all there is. He's not a brooding, conflicted, complex and beautiful psychological mess like Snape. He's mean, he's spiteful, he's evil. And he enjoys it.

Rebel
September 6th, 2003, 2:46 am
I totally agree. Draco is petty.

Athough, we know nothing of his home life. All those food packages from home, I'm betting, are from his Mother or new house elf. NOT his father.

Lucius is probably so involved with Voldie that he doesn't have time for Draco.

Now, poeple don't change over night, so maybe Draco is slowly going over to the good side because he doesn't want to support the guy who took away his father.

Gandalf_the_White
September 6th, 2003, 5:23 am
I think that Draco had a typical boyhead grudge against Harry and the other non pure bloods. He has grown up thinking he is alot better than everyone else. I believe that in this particular book he now has a reason to despise Harry. The arrest of his father can't possibly have a good effect. All of sudden, poor little Draco might find life isn't always so simple. Hopefully he realizes that being on Voldemort's side leads to nothing but Azkaban or death.

Fleur du mal
September 6th, 2003, 9:45 am
I'd be really disappointed if Draco would stay like that until the end and then die or go to Azkaban. From Harrys point of view he was a *** for five years, of course, but I don't believe that people are that onedimensional, neither in books nor the "real world". He will not become that lovely fluffy type of person I presume, that's just not his character, but what we've seen so far was shallow. As his parents have hidden spots under their living room carpet, he might have some hidden sides as well (as all the characters in the books up to now).
Everybody always says, JKR is so amazing, she will surprise us, ... (you know what I mean). Draco being evil to the core and taking revenge on Harry for his fathers cause like he swore at the end of book V - nay, that's really predictable, isn't it?

jordmundt6
September 7th, 2003, 6:48 am
You'd be surprised how one-dimensional hatred and selfishness can make a person. I've never really had a problem with this portrayal of Draco.

kvl_514
September 7th, 2003, 11:08 am
i think if draco had to choose between the good side and the dark side he'd choose the good side, even though he'd still hate harry.

Lord Vetinari
September 7th, 2003, 11:46 am
I don't think he would. He doesn't seem to want to, at least. It would be more likely that Crabbe or Goyle would, because they have just been led by Malfoy in the first place (and even then it would be very unlikely). I think that you'll find a Malfoy, complete with Crabbe and Goyle, in any school. I don't think that he regrets his father joining Voldemort at all.

Fleur du mal
September 7th, 2003, 1:10 pm
I read somewhere else the question, IF Draco was so close to his father and wanted t promote his fathers goals by any means, then why did he assist Umbridge in arresting Harry on that very day when Harry and the DA tried to rescue Sirius? It's not that I believe that he wanted to help Harry or whatever, but he obviously didn't know about Lucius plans. If I wanted to realize a scheme like Malfoy senior and my son was the leader of the Inquisitorial squad, then I'd hint at least that my kid should keep calm and leave his arch enemy at THIS day alone.

jordmundt6
September 7th, 2003, 6:27 pm
The same reason that Draco didn't really get involved in the basilisk plot. His father gives him broad ideology strokes that he follows like a religion, but doesn't give him any truly sensitive material so he won't be imoplicated, or, more likely, mess things up.

Belatrix
September 7th, 2003, 6:43 pm
Up until I read the 5th book I thought that Draco would be able to turn good. Especially when he was scared to go into the forest in Book 1, that to me showed signs that he wasn't as bad as he seemed. But in the fifth book Draco went from Bullying and childish pranks to pure evil. Perhaps it was just the mood surounding the book but I really started to hate Draco which I can't truthfully admit to ever doing before. Especially at the end when he says to Harry "Your dead Potter" its not like his normal self. Normally he would have tryed to pick a fight but now with his dad in prison he knows he cant get away with it. Draco went from being jealouse of Harry's attention, to really hating him.

Rebel
September 9th, 2003, 3:03 am
Good point

fawkes5
September 9th, 2003, 3:56 am
Tom Felton marbe hot, but Draco is definitely not. I cannot sympathise with a character who cheers when someone else dies. His parents are partly to blame of course but that doesn't change the fact that to Draco, the important things in life are money, power and blue blood. He absolutely has no respect for other people.

It is true that nobody is ALL bad, but I haven't seen anything in the books to make me believe Draco is otherwise. And I don't think JK intends to make a complete character reversal for Draco in the books. I read somewhere that she was kind of alarmed that some kids found Draco cool (because of Felton's effect of course).

Someone mentioned Draco being a "petty evil," I think that sums him up just beautifully.

jordmundt6
September 9th, 2003, 6:23 am
This "new" harshness doesn't really seem new to me. Perhaps we're just getting a clearer picture of the malice and hatred that have been there all along or Draco is maturing into a villain the same way that Harry is maturing into a hero. Either way, I maintain that the overwhelming reason given for defending Malfoy is Tom Felton. Fans of Tom Felton want his character to be more sympathetic than it is, so Tom and Chris Columbus had to go out of their way to portray Draco as spiteful and capricious. And there's still the lone holdouts who refuse to give up the ghost about Malfoy's redemption. Where was there evidence for this in the first four books?

Prophet
September 11th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Its is about appearence. He's played by a good looking actor... This is why I don't understand all of the pro-Snape stuff (not that I hate him, I don't) because he's portrayed as being unattractive. Also, in the books Harry is not described as particularly cute or anything, but I keep thinking of Dan when I read them and wonder why all the girls are not swooning over him..

A slightly unrelated point: I was shocked to see all the Lupin -loving going on, because for some reason I keep imagining him as old and with a beard. Even though I know he's not any older than Harry's parents would be...

fifteenstones
September 12th, 2003, 3:18 pm
Whatever has made him the way he is, he doesn't get sympathy from me. People with bad upbringings don't have to be horrible. Don't forget that he sneered about Cedric's death. He hasn't shown any sign that he has a conscience, and by the age of 15 he should have developed one if he ever will.

As I recall, James Potter was almost as bad as Draco at the age of 15. I wouldn't go as far to say that Draco will be totally reformed and become Harry's best friend in the end, but I do hope that Rowling develops his character further. I think he's a bit too one-dimensional at present. I would be surprised if Rowling leaves Malfoy's character as shallow as it is now until the very end.

fifteenstones
September 12th, 2003, 6:19 pm
I read somewhere that she was kind of alarmed that some kids found Draco cool (because of Felton's effect of course).


Just curious, but do you have a source or link to this article? I vaguely remember reading something like this, but I can't remember. If Rowling did say such a thing, it will be easier for us fans to speculate on how Malfoy will turn out.

Lord Vetinari
September 12th, 2003, 6:29 pm
As I recall, James Potter was almost as bad as Draco at the age of 15. I wouldn't go as far to say that Draco will be totally reformed and become Harry's best friend in the end, but I do hope that Rowling develops his character further. I think he's a bit too one-dimensional at present. I would be surprised if Rowling leaves Malfoy's character as shallow as it is now until the very end.

If anything, I think that Malfoy will become more evil, and worship Voldemort.

(This next part isn't related to the quote ;) ) I'm not sure where the image of Malfoy as an innocent child who has been ill treated by his parents has come from. He's meant to be a bully, and a spoiled brat.

fawkes5
September 13th, 2003, 5:24 am
Just curious, but do you have a source or link to this article? I vaguely remember reading something like this, but I can't remember. If Rowling did say such a thing, it will be easier for us fans to speculate on how Malfoy will turn out.

I recall reading it right after OotP was released. The article was talking about some kind of reading of OotP that JKR was doing in London. Ok, I google searched and I found it.

Stephen Fry:
So I know in America they are a bit more theatrical than we are about these things (British), you get boys dressed as Harry Potter and girls dressed as Hermione

JK Rowling:
Many boys dressed as Harry… And lately I've noticed people like dressing up as Draco a lot more, which I'm finding a little bit worrying. (To audience) I think you're all getting far too fond of Draco.

Here's the URL, sorry but I can't seem to turn it into a link.

http://www.double-dipped.org/ootp/jktranscript.htm

fifteenstones
September 13th, 2003, 6:16 am
I recall reading it right after OotP was released. The article was talking about some kind of reading of OotP that JKR was doing in London. Ok, I google searched and I found it.

Thanks for the link, fawkes5! I really appreciate it. ;) So, I guess it's pretty safe to assume that Malfoy will not turn out as a favorable character. Still, I do wish that Rowling will deepen his character. Even if Malfoy is evil, he doesn't necessarily have to be one-dimensional.

Mrs Draco Malfoy
September 13th, 2003, 11:52 am
You people are right, the fact that Tom Felton is so drool-worthy is influencing people's perceptions of Draco... ok maybe me included...
But I still think that Draco isn't completely evil. In the first books I think he might've been a little lacking in self esteem - bullies normally are - and the fact that he always has Crabbe and Goyle around like bodyguards are a dead giveaway. Though I'll admit that when Malfoy made that death threat against Harry, I got the feeling there was a little bit more to it. Perhaps he has warped into some kind of psycho-bunny, but evilness in a person is never without reason. You just have to look at some of the evil people of our time to see that. And he's got a while to go yet, maybe he'll reform before the series is out. Perhaps his father will do something unforgiveable in Draco's eyes.

Oh and you have got to admit, Draco's a Mummy's boy.

Fleur du mal
September 13th, 2003, 12:16 pm
Thanks for the link, fawkes5! I really appreciate it. ;) So, I guess it's pretty safe to assume that Malfoy will not turn out as a favorable character. Still, I do wish that Rowling will deepen his character. Even if Malfoy is evil, he doesn't necessarily have to be one-dimensional.

I thought that sentence would relate to the possibility of Dracos death; Sirius wasn't presented in the most sympathetic way and look how the fans mourn for him. Like someone above said, Draco surely is a mummys boy; what would happen if Lucius treated Narcissa in a way Draco could no longer accept? She can do every sort of thing now as Lucius is imprisoned and her spouse might not appreciate her actions and punish her or whatever.

fawkes5
September 15th, 2003, 2:33 am
I don't think Draco is a truly evil person the way Voldemort and the Death Eaters are but he is definitely not someone JK wants children to identify with.

Whoever called Draco a "petty evil" is right on the nose about him, so far.

Fleur du mal
September 15th, 2003, 9:32 am
I know, I'll be hell-dissappointed if the morals as I see them in the books turn out to be different in the end. I'd be really really dissappointed.
But until I'm proven wrong I believe that there must be a redemption possible for Draco; I dislike all this >hang'im higher< stuff too much.
Same thing for Crabbe and Goyle, but as there is no cure for stupidity, they won't get much better than that (being good just because someone you accept as superior tells you isn't exactly good!). Draco is a spoiled brat (sorry guys, had to babysit at the weekend and I'm really fed up with that sort of children) with terrible parents, but that doesn't make him a murderer, and as he is not stupid he will realize it. He, and that's the difference between him and Goyle, can choose; people like Goyle always need other people to think for them. I don't care whether he turns out to be a nice person, that's "his" business, but I don't believe that people get evil because it is unavoidable once they were school bullies. I would really hate the books if that was one of the conclusions in the end.

fawkes5
September 16th, 2003, 5:01 am
...but I don't believe that people get evil because it is unavoidable once they were school bullies.

Well, yeah. Maybe you're right. Evil might be too strong a word for Draco. So far he hasn't done anything purely evil (that is, if you don't count wanting someone dead or gloating over a death).

2 more books to go, so Draco can still choose to do something good. Seems a stretch for my imagination though (his doing something good.)

Maybe I'll just call him a spoiled petty bully, hmm?

Hpmons
September 16th, 2003, 10:44 pm
Ok, he hasnt done anything purely evil. But surely he goes beyond "bully"?
All the evidence (some petty things):

- In PS he tipped off Filch to look for Harry and Ron in the Trophy room
- He tried to get people to relise about Norbert
- He called Hermione a Mudblood
- He considers himself higher than Ron, as he is poor and a muggle lover
- He bought his way onto the Quidditch team
- He dresses up as a Dementor to scare Harry
- He half-faked an injury to get Hagrid sacked
- He tried to get Harry to look for Sirius himself
- He has no problems with his dad being a DE and torturing and killing people
- He fed nasty stuff to Rita Skeeter, with full knowledge that she was an unregistered animagus
- Malfoy didnt raise his glass for Cedric
"Trying not to think about it are we?" said Malfoy softly looking around at all three of them "Trying to pretend it hasnt happened?"
...
"You've picked the posing sode Potter! I warned you! I told you you ought to choose your company more carefully, remember? When wemet on the trian, first day at Hogwarts? I told you not to hang-around with riff-raff like this!" he jerked his head at Ron and Hermione "Too late now, Potter! They'll be the first to go, now the Dark Lords back! Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers first! Well - second - Diggory was the f-"
-He helped Umbridge, and liked her (now come on, that is EVIL!)
- He insulted Harry and Rons family
"You are forcing me, Potter...I do not want to" said Umbridge, still moving restlessly on the spot "but sometimes circumstances justify the use...I am sure the Minister will understand that I had no choice..."
Malfoy was watching her with a hungry expression on his face
"The Cruciatus Curse ought to loosen your tongue"
- He didnt mind the Curse being used, he was in fact happy at it.
- He wanted to make Harry "pay" for what Harry had done to his father.

Conclusion: He doesnt mind the Unforgivable Curses being used, he doesnt mind Cedric dying, he doesnt mind his father trying to kill people...I can almost picture him in miniture Death Eater cloaks.

Not saying he cant redeem. Just its very very unlikely.

fawkes5
September 17th, 2003, 5:44 am
Ok, he hasnt done anything purely evil. But surely he goes beyond "bully"?

- He didnt mind the Curse being used, he was in fact happy at it.
- He wanted to make Harry "pay" for what Harry had done to his father.

Conclusion: He doesnt mind the Unforgivable Curses being used, he doesnt mind Cedric dying, he doesnt mind his father trying to kill people...I can almost picture him in miniture Death Eater cloaks.

Not saying he cant redeem. Just its very very unlikely.

Lol! I personally think he's following in his father's footsteps too.

ArmachiA
September 17th, 2003, 11:04 am
I honestly think that he could go either way... though most of the books evidence leans toward the fact that Draco is just as evil as his father. But, as we all know, JKR has a way to make us think one way and then surprise us in the end. Which is why I'm not ruling out the possibility of redemtion

Fleur du mal
September 17th, 2003, 11:11 am
I don't know, I always seperated Dracos behaviour towards Harry, Hermoine and Ron from the rest. Of course, he teased people like Neville (teasing might be no strong enough word, but can't think of any other); so much for being a bully.
But with the trio it's a personal matter. Harry is the star that he thinks he himself should be. Ron is the boy for whoms sake Harry rejected his friendship and Hermoine is the glorious A-student his father wants HIM to be. The boy wants revenge for what he thinks was humiliation towards him for five years now. He could never see that their behaviour just reflects his own actions towards them, so he feels provoked for quite a long time now.
I guess he will do something very silly (the dementor thing in PoA was already so stupid that it seems hard to top that, but he will surely find a way) now and because his precious daddy isn't around to help him out, he will - for the first time in his life - have to face this alone. Most of the time that is enough for spoilt children to mature (I have to enhance again that there are millions of little Dracos out there who do NOT turn out to be mass-murderers because of exactly the same reasons), and I'm very certain it will be enough for Draco as well.

DarlingChild
September 17th, 2003, 11:21 pm
All right...I haven't visited this thread in a LONG time. It's nice to know it's still around! :)

After reading OotP...my thoughts have changed, and I have come to THIS comclusion:

Draco Malfoy is an evil, arrogant, cowardly, slimy little git who will never change. His one purpose in the books is to be that way. Sure, he can change in fanfics...but that's the fandom world, where you can make anything happen. We're not talking about Fanon!Draco, we're talking about Canon!Draco. And let's face it...anyone who can't see that Draco will probably never change, needs to re-read the books.

Regardless, he is still one of my favorite characters! His insults are so lame, that they're actually quite funny. He makes me laugh, and he makes me want to slap him. All in all, I think he is a birlliantly constructed character...even if he is an antagonist :P

But, I have to agree with whoever said that he was very evil for helping Umbridge. Good point, I agree 100%, haha. Anyone malicious enough to get in league with her to take advantage of the other students, actually is evil!

Fleur du mal
September 18th, 2003, 2:13 pm
Regardless, he is still one of my favorite characters! His insults are so lame, that they're actually quite funny. He makes me laugh, and he makes me want to slap him. All in all, I think he is a birlliantly constructed character...even if he is an antagonist by DarlingChild.

Yeah, you are so right, she was marvellous in creating that one. I do not 100%ly agree with the other stuff, because of the reasons I typed above, but anyway, he is so much fun to read. :evil:

koli
October 9th, 2003, 2:46 am
i dont ever recall hearing that draco was a goodlooking boy in the books. All i remember is he was rat faced or ferrit like or something. I think just because Tom Felton was cast for him (sigh tom felton ::drool::) pple liek love draco. i still have a distinct hate for him b/c well hes a spoiled brat, snobby, arrogant, cheating little boy. well not anymore but still. but hes the perfect antagonist for Potter so its okay. But i dont get why everyone in a lot of fan fics i've read try and portray him as liek a good guy or even jsut pple in gernal think, its all his fathers fault and blah blah, well it is his fathers fault but its not liek dracos putting on a show to make his dad happy or something. hes just like his father. and hes a rat face...nothing really special. but tom felton thats a different story :love:

morgan le fay
October 9th, 2003, 2:52 am
theres some sort of saying about just "do what you gotta do and do it well." while draco doesnt "gotta" join the stupid umbridge league or call hermione a mudblood among other egregious things, he does what he does well - being a mean snobby git. he also has a ton of confidence. that is admirable. but i do not admire his shortsightedness and ignorance. he is such an awesome cool character, but hes on the wrong side.

i wonder if he's a popular with the ladies in slytherin?? ^_~*

Fleur du mal
October 10th, 2003, 10:24 am
theres some sort of saying about just "do what you gotta do and do it well." while draco doesnt "gotta" join the stupid umbridge league or call hermione a mudblood among other egregious things, he does what he does well - being a mean snobby git. he also has a ton of confidence. that is admirable. but i do not admire his shortsightedness and ignorance. he is such an awesome cool character, but hes on the wrong side.

i wonder if he's a popular with the ladies in slytherin?? ^_~*

exactly, exactly. it's not like he chose "I'm going to be a slimy nasty git for my school-mates" one morning when getting up, in his opinion, he's doing just the right thing, and from that regard, he's doing it quite well.

about the confidence... that sword has two blades. I don't believe he's really self confident, but he's trying to hide this perfectly. for example the harry/ron/first day ever in hogwarts incident... he wanted to be harry's friend, trying to gain this in the only way he could think of, and failed. this was the beginning of his dislike, not that harry destroyed voldy or whatever. real self-confidence wouldn't mind such childish games, he simply wouldn't care.

to the slytherin ladies... success with girls has more to it than looks. and being notorious for being quite funny helps, may your nose be pointed or not. and if it's true what everybody assumes about the slytherin kids, the girls will appreciate the biggest fish in the pond, and Malfoy is a leader type of person.
so yes, he's probably well-off but I fear, he's got different problems right now so he cannot enjoy his popularity

Vigilance
October 11th, 2003, 9:07 am
I think the key to understanding Draco is to realize his desire to impress Lucius or be like his father. He constantly appeals to his father's authority, repeating not only the news he receives from home but also his father's opinions. Lucius is all about influence--the governing board at Hogwarts, the Ministry of Magic. Draco, if he joins Umbridge on his own rather than at Lucius's direction, probably only thinks of the influence he might gain with this MoM official. His behavior is inexcusable, though understandable; he mimics Lucius, hoping to gain as much admiration in his father's eyes as the man holds for himself.

I think he's rather a sad (pathetic) guy: he wants his father to be proud of him but Hermione and Harry are always coming in ahead (think about the public and surprising way that the first-year house cup was taken out of Slytherin's hands. It probably seemed to the Slytherins that they were robbed. DD could have doled out these points at anytime, but instead chose to take the cup from Slythies grasp just as they were feeling proud of their accomplishment :upset: ).

It's easy for him to hate Hermione, to pick out how she's different--a "mudblood"--rather than to concede his failings to his father, who says in CoS that he should be ashamed that he comes in behind Hermione in classes and disdains his son's resentment that Harry has been allowed to play on the Gryffindor team and own a broom against school policy.

Though I could never acquit him of his cruelty, I think he can really not go much beyond what he sees at home and what his parents express. He reiterates their opinions and seems unable to think for himself--probably because he doesn't feel loved unconditionally.


(I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm recovering the same ground)

Bagshot
October 11th, 2003, 1:54 pm
I'm sorry to anyone who thinks Draco will turn out to be some misunderstood boy who is only horrid because his father is, because i just can't see it happening! Draco needs no encouragement from his father to be mean to people, he does it of his own accord. He truly believes that Muggle borns are not as important or worthy to study magic as pure bloods. Dobby tells us how horrid his family is to him in CoS, They remind him to give himself extra punishments! I think it shows exactly what Draco's character is like, the same as his fathers, evil!

Fleur du mal
October 11th, 2003, 2:14 pm
Vigilance, you're so right, it's exactly how I regard him as well.

First of all, he never learned any social skills; he imitates his father because this is the only way he can think of to impress people and thereby "make friends" with them. Eleven years is a long time to develop a personality (meaning "forming" from his parents view), and his Slytherin education isn't likely to change much about this. There is a point in Pride and Prejudice, where Mr. Darcy excuses himself for being too proud (no, don't want to compare them, nobody please eat me!) and finds that his parents raised him to believe in his superiority against anybody who is not family. On their first day, McGonagall explains the new pupils that their houses will be like family as well. I guess, Draco's only loyalties lie here, in his parents and in Slytherin, but they are true. The sorting hat points out that Slytherin is also about true friendship, not only the bad features everybody enhances so much.
So there is his father to please, and from all we know, Lucius is not that kind of father to praise his kid like he is praised by him, daresay, I guess he's as cold as ice to his son as well. So what can you do to impress a man like him? Draco tried quite a lot of schemes, bu none worked out properly, so he must feel pretty successless and desperate by now. The inquisitorial squad seemed to offer a new possibility to stand up to his father's expectations, and again, he lost, especially bitter: he was beaten by kids like Neville and Ginny Weasley; will take him a lot to regain his pride and self-steem.
Harry, Hermoine and Ron represent exactly, what seems to be wrong with the world from Draco's perspective: they are always preferred (even his father can't stop talking about Hermoine being better in school), they get away with everything, etc. "think about the public and surprising way that the first-year house cup was taken out of Slytherin's hands. It probably seemed to the Slytherins that they were robbed. DD could have doled out these points at anytime, but instead chose to take the cup from Slythies grasp just as they were feeling proud of their accomplishment " (Vigilance) Yep, right from the start. Draco was taught to believe that only pure blood counts, as well as money and influence and fame. When you're 11 and never heard anything else, you just believe your parents to be right as always (Draco has a strong tendency to over-idealize his parents, even when he is older now), and every experience he made in Hogwarts is likely to advance his beliefs further.
He wanted to be famous Harry Potter's friend (again, acting in the only way he could think of to impress the to him more impressive Potter), but was rejected for Ron's sake. He has heard about him, their father's have more than just strong unamosities to carry out. As negative as Ron is informed about Malfoy, as bad Lucius must have presented the Weasley family, and it's easy to mock them, too. They are poor, and Draco needs only to repeat his father's statements and insult Ron like that. It's easy, but desperate, because Draco was clearly and deeply mortified.
Hermoine is the living incorporation that his father might have erred in his pureblood theories, and it's a question of emotional logic to project his insecurity and irritation to her and not wondering whether precious daddy could be wrong. She is brilliant, and worse, he cannot stand up to her, to insult her is even more desperate than in Ron's case.
At last, there's Harry, a strange boy from Draco's point of view, famous but without showing any of the signs who grant fame in Draco's world. He's neither rich, nor spoilt, nor highly-talented (judging his marks), he's shy (Draco compensates insecurity with arrogance and wit, never showing any weakness; what shall he think of someone so unable to hold up the mask?) and doesn't "work" like he should regarding the mechanics of the social life how Draco knows it. Everybody loves him, all the teachers favour him, he's taken to the Quidditch team although that breaks the rules in itself, the world seems to bend whenever Harry Potter appears. You needn't be a character like Draco to despise a super-hero like Harry when you share classes with him.
So, the downward spiral is set and Daco runs it with anxiety, wishing to be the winner of the game for one time at least, hearing his father praise him, being admired by teacher's and fellow-students like Harry is every year a-new.
But by now, the only way to gain this is following the Dark Lord, the others will not like him but at least show respect when Voldemort has seized power again, then he could finally pay back for all he feels he has suffered. It's pure weakness in the costume of power.
I don't think, Lucius himself is an "orthodox" pureblood believer. I understod that he knew about Voldemort's origin, but as Voldemort is a promising chance to climb the social ladder even higher than he ever could in the momentary system, he chooses to ignore. But knowing his son and his big mouth, he cannot be too open about his regards.
I think, in some moment Draco will realise his father's ambivalence and something crucial will happen then.
Not like "Oh, what a bad boy have I been, now I have to excuse myself and do something good" but regarding the accurateness with which Mrs. Rowling has created her characters, he will not remain as one-dimensional.

Vigilance
October 11th, 2003, 4:30 pm
I'm sorry to anyone who thinks Draco will turn out to be some misunderstood boy who is only horrid because his father is, because i just can't see it happening! Draco needs no encouragement from his father to be mean to people, he does it of his own accord. He truly believes that Muggle borns are not as important or worthy to study magic as pure bloods. Dobby tells us how horrid his family is to him in CoS, They remind him to give himself extra punishments! I think it shows exactly what Draco's character is like, the same as his fathers, evil!

I can see what you mean, but to me, Draco's evil is a societal one. He comes from and believes in an outmoded system of power that places a pseudo-aristocratic Mage ancestry at the top of the power hierarchy. I think he cannot step outside this belief system because it is the one that secures his own social position--he cannot ultimately afford to reject it. I don't believe in evil that isn't produced by society. I think it's important to note that JKR's "evil" characters are always motivated by their histories, even though they tell stories about how moral and social talents and traits (being good at Quidditch, or being the Heir of Slytherin, who must be evil even though there might not be any previous sign that the Heir is evil before he discoveres his true identity) are inherited.

Thanks for the support Fleur du mal :tu:

Fleur du mal
October 13th, 2003, 11:54 am
I can see what you mean, but to me, Draco's evil is a societal one. He comes from and believes in an outmoded system of power that places a pseudo-aristocratic Mage ancestry at the top of the power hierarchy. I think he cannot step outside this belief system because it is the one that secures his own social position--he cannot ultimately afford to reject it. I don't believe in evil that isn't produced by society. I think it's important to note that JKR's "evil" characters are always motivated by their histories, even though they tell stories about how moral and social talents and traits (being good at Quidditch, or being the Heir of Slytherin, who must be evil even though there might not be any previous sign that the Heir is evil before he discoveres his true identity) are inherited.

Thanks for the support Fleur du mal :tu:

I tried to answer yesterday, but the bloody connection broke down, so I guess now, that's going to be a shorter one.

vigilance, you're more than welcome, I really enjoyed your postings so much (the others as well).
I cannot accept the idea of any inborn evil, because it follows the same fascistic argumentation as the Malfoy's pureblood dogmatics. Draco wasn't born evil, though his education didn't make him one of the sympathetic characters in the book. But as there is a freedom of choice (let us please all assume there is one!), we will see what happens; when the premises change, the conclusion must alter naturally. I think it's very true, Draco is part of a system he cannot break through. He was taught to feel superiour to anybody else, never learning how to make real friends or to gain respect for what he IS rather than what he HAS. He cannot just say, oh well, my daddy is so wrong, I'll be on the other side from now on, because he would lose everything he's got. His position depends on his father's social rank, now as this is gone, he will find out that being defined by someone else, he now is judged just as the same person he trusted so much before. OF COURSE, he had to project this irritation and anger to Harry, what should he do, realise that his familiar conceptions were mislead in the intercourse of one week?
I really like Draco's character the way JKR created him because he is somewhat "true". I cannot deny, he's a nasty git, he is, but his example is more realistic than any of the others. He had in some regards less chances than Harry himself, because his up-bringing took him most of his chances and replaced them by superficial values like money, power and fame. How is he supposed to see his parents are wrong? How old do you have to be before you realise for the first time that your parents aren't as parfect as you thought them to be? And then, most of us do not live in such hermetic systems as Draco and the other Slytherins do. Even if Draco is old enough now, it's almost too late to change anything.
Hogwarts itself is contraproductive to bridge this gap; I always found it a most bizarre idea to take the children of all racists and even murderers, imprison them together in the dungeons for the next seven years and believe, they will leave school NOT being the little orthodox fascists they already seem to be. Being sorted to Slytherin means leading the life of a somewhat posh and elegant, but still, Paria, so you look for friends where you can find them.

mafiawizard
October 14th, 2003, 7:53 am
Ok. I've been thinking a lot about Draco lately. I don't know why, but I have. And I've come to the conclusion that he's probably NOT as mean and bad and evil and horrible as everyone thinks. Get rid of that horrible father of his, and Draco's jealousy of Harry, and you've prolly got a normal kid. Actually, he'd prolly be really fun to be around. It's just the way he was raised and what-not that made him the way he is. I know that sometimes when I'm reading the books I just wanna jump into them and kick Draco's butt for some of the horrible stuff he does, but...you know. I wouldn't put it past JK to make Draco change his evil ways...I'd be in favor of it! ;D What do you think? Is Draco ALL evil? Will he ever change his ways? Let me know!
I think that Draco will be a death eater at the end and join Voldemort. His father was a death eater after all.

But you could also be right. James was not the good boy that everyone told Harry about but when he got older he matured maybe the same thing will happen to Draco but I doubt it. I think he will be a death eater.

Chrysalis
October 14th, 2003, 8:35 pm
This was how I pictured Draco Malfoy: spoiled and pampered and smothered by his mother, looking up to a father who doesn't show any real affection. Not that I feel sorry for him. He seems to get worse with every year. Draco, unlike Sirius, hasn't chosen to break away from his parents idea's. He doesn't get sympathy from me.

jordmundt6
October 15th, 2003, 2:55 am
Y'know I never even thought to compare Draco to Sirius? I can see the comparison now, but as far as attitude and position I usually compared him to Severus. However the more we learn about Prof. Snape, the more disjointed that comparison gets. Draco, unlike Sirius, embraces everything he's been taught by his parents. He seems actually a lot like Regulus, Sirius' dead younger brother. So here's a question--Does Malfoy have any siblings? It's never come up because Draco's personal life doesn't matter that much to Harry.

Fleur du mal
October 15th, 2003, 12:10 pm
Sirius made friends with James and Remus, giving him the opportunity to sort out what his parents had taught him. Draco is absolutely separated in Slytherin, why should he ever even think about if his daddy could be wrong in certain regards? And friends like Crabbe and Goyle aren't exactly a mental temptation to experience philosophical discussions, are they?
what would have happened to sirius without his friends? Beg you pardon, but even without the now-famous Snivellus Snape scene, I found him not very nice, though he had joined the good side. So what? He was just the same kind of arrogant jerk as Draco is, even when he had the "better" friends. He turned out to be no mass-murderer (and like Draco, everbody presumed him to be), and before Draco hasn't killed anyone, I simply refuse to condemn him. I don't say this could not happen though, he might turn out to be worse yet than we assume. But until this happens, I really hope that something will happen with him, because this is a children's book teaching some morals, and I wish to see that even when your starting position is bad (not in terms of money but of conscience) you can still break through the pattern in which you've been raised.
After all, JKR presents several "arch-types", the jealous sibling, the single child ambitioned to keep up with her fellow-students, the neglected child. Draco is a very typical boy: spoiled, rather getting presents than a proper education because that would mean spending time and patience, right from the start, his parents have set him on a wrong track. It just looks better than in poorer families, because if he was poor and his father would beat him up, he would get more sympathies. But that's not the point about him, is it? What excuse did James Potter have to such a stupid git with 15? And if we can excuse Sirius because he had such terrible parents, why can't we at least wait for Draco to fail before we judge him? He is 15, in most countries , he wasn't even old enough to be punished like an adult would because most systems believe kids of that age not completely capable of their actions, too easy influencable, not looking far enough to realise what effects their actions will have. Yeah, he IS rich, but envy shouldn't be the ignition to hate him more for being a bully and royal jerk than Sirius or James or even Harry (who even treats his friends like :nc: sometimes, too!).

PrincessAlly
October 15th, 2003, 8:22 pm
Sirius made friends with James and Remus, giving him the opportunity to sort out what his parents had taught him. Draco is absolutely separated in Slytherin, why should he ever even think about if his daddy could be wrong in certain regards? And friends like Crabbe and Goyle aren't exactly a mental temptation to experience philosophical discussions, are they?
what would have happened to sirius without his friends? Beg you pardon, but even without the now-famous Snivellus Snape scene, I found him not very nice, though he had joined the good side. So what? He was just the same kind of arrogant jerk as Draco is, even when he had the "better" friends. He turned out to be no mass-murderer (and like Draco, everbody presumed him to be), and before Draco hasn't killed anyone, I simply refuse to condemn him. I don't say this could not happen though, he might turn out to be worse yet than we assume. But until this happens, I really hope that something will happen with him, because this is a children's book teaching some morals, and I wish to see that even when your starting position is bad (not in terms of money but of conscience) you can still break through the pattern in which you've been raised.
After all, JKR presents several "arch-types", the jealous sibling, the single child ambitioned to keep up with her fellow-students, the neglected child. Draco is a very typical boy: spoiled, rather getting presents than a proper education because that would mean spending time and patience, right from the start, his parents have set him on a wrong track. It just looks better than in poorer families, because if he was poor and his father would beat him up, he would get more sympathies. But that's not the point about him, is it? What excuse did James Potter have to such a stupid git with 15? And if we can excuse Sirius because he had such terrible parents, why can't we at least wait for Draco to fail before we judge him? He is 15, in most countries , he wasn't even old enough to be punished like an adult would because most systems believe kids of that age not completely capable of their actions, too easy influencable, not looking far enough to realise what effects their actions will have. Yeah, he IS rich, but envy shouldn't be the ignition to hate him more for being a bully and royal jerk than Sirius or James or even Harry (who even treats his friends like :nc: sometimes, too!).

I totally agree with you! That's something that always annoys me, that people makes excuses for Sirius and James yet if Draco had of done what they did to Snape everyone would be condemning him!I was making the exact same arguement in the 'James and Sirius NOT bad people' thread.

I hope that Draco does see sense but I have a bad feeling that JKR doesn't realise the potential of Draco. I think the people who write fanfiction have realised the great potential Draco has as a character but I'm just afraid JKR might just have him as a typical bad guy and I think that will be such a waste of what could be such a great character. It'll be interesting to see what Draco will be like in book 6 cause Lucius isn't there anymore so maybe we'll see just how much influence he had over his son.

Moonlight
October 15th, 2003, 8:56 pm
If Draco has potential, JK would definatley know! After all she alone knows and makes his past and future.

You mustn't judge him at how he's potrayed in fanfiction, because that isn't accurate and is almost always fanciful thinking on the author's part.

sindatur
October 15th, 2003, 10:00 pm
You can't compare Draco to Sirius and James. Draco laughed about Cedric's death, and made passing comments about he hoped Hermione would be the first Mudblood killed. Draco had Buckbeak sentenced to death and got Hagrid fired, because Draco didn't obey the teacher's instructions. James felt horrible when Snape's life was in Danger from Werewolf Lupin in the Shrieking Shack when the Marauders set Snape up. Sirius sought out friends who were different from his upbringing. Draco revels in being the big shot with Crabbe and Goyle.

Why is Draco supposedly so redeemable, but Crabbe, Goyle and Dudley don't have all these threads and Fanfiction making them out to be misunderstood? JKR has said it concerns her that so many people are so fond of Draco? Could be a misdirection and she said that because she is planning on redeeming him, and doesn't want the surprise spoiled, but, I don't see it. Dudley in my opinion is not as bad as Draco, and he's had a tougher life in my opinion as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the character as the cold hearted jerk he is, and his snide remarks are some of the funniest moments in the books/movies. But, to hear people say "take away his dad's influence and his hatred of Harry and I'll bet he's a good guy underneath it all" just blows me away. I can't see how there would be anything left if you took that away.

Fleur du mal
October 17th, 2003, 11:26 am
never mind, sindatur, I don't have a grudge with Dudley, he doesn't interest me too much because we see him only once a year, but again, I would say that he wasn't born a jerk but that his parents were responsible for his up-bringing and how he should treat other people, especialy those who are weaker than he is.
As for Crabbe and Goyle - they could be saints if Draco told them to, they're just everything that their brain bug tells them. To me, the word "Evil" was always connected with a certain attitude of mind, and Crabbe and Goyle have not enough brains to develop such. No problem with them, they can redeem, they can leave i, I don' care. Where's the fun in a character who is simply dumb? They don't "develop" but they are "formed", it's a too predictable to raise interest.
I haven't read many of the fan fiction stories, though some are really nice, but I know what you mean, and partly, you are right. Nevertheless I felt always intrigued by the way Draco was presented in the books, reading them a whole lot earlier. He is clever enough to grow out of his familiar patterns and I hope, he will. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see him "not fall over the edge completely", because I feel, he is a genuine character, many readers are a bit like him, or were when they were younger. I don't mean the whole "I'm a rich ******* bullying everybody around plus being a notorious racist's fervent son!" thing, but single traits of characters which JKR developed very subtle. All books are presented from Harry's point of view, still, Draco keeps something I like, maybe because I don't agree with Harry's attitude as well.
Again, I would really like to see the scene where Draco laughed about Cedric's death? I'm not kidding, but I read a translation of the Goblet of Fire, and eventually, the translation lost it, I cannot remember to have spotted it. He wouldn't drink to his death, and he said something like "By the way, Diggory's the (some curse word I can't translate) ..." and I always supposed he wanted to finish the sentence "true champion", because mainly that's what he said all the time in the book. He wants to scorn Harry, not Ceddric here, rather the opposite.
For the rest of his failures: yeah, he did all of that and more, being the nasty little git that he is, but truly, in my opinion he hasn't crossed the line yet. All he did was a normal consequence of what he is (by the way, he didn't let Buckbeak be sentenced to death, that was his daddy), and again, I have to enhance that I don't believe that he's having one of theese little white rabbit's cores. He IS spoilt to the core, and probably this effect cannot be brought out of him ever again. All I say is that there is a huge gap between being an unbearable bully and becoming a murderer, Draco Malfoy is surely guilty of the first accuse, but I don't think he's capable of the second. And that's the point - if there were only small Hermoines and Harrys running around there, the school time would be a great time for everybody. As it is not, we have to realise that there are a whole lot of Dracos, Crabbes, Dudleys and Mariettas out there, not evil, but nasty and determined to ruin your day. I dare to claim that 99,9 % of them grow up to be quite normal persons. I just wouldn't like to see the behaviour of a fourteen year-old (the Dementor prank) is the basis to judge his character for the rest of his life.
You said, Sirius looked for better friends: I don't know in which house he was, and I haven't followed the thread concerning this question. From my perspective, it looks like the Harry we know would have never made friends with Sirius, if he had been the one attending school with him. After all, Sirius resembled Draco a lot, and Harry had been bullied for too long by Dudley to find that a good thing in one of his friends. BESIDES: if it comes to judging school boys behaviour, Ron's behaviour towards Hermoine is outrageous in the first book, that is real mean jumping on the weakest, I'm sorry to say so. But he changed, of course, and we don't want to remember his flaws when he was eleven.
So, Sirius. You write, James felt terrible, and sure you're right, but Sirius did not, sending Snape there in the first place. He was capable of killing with 16, though he surely didn't mean to, thinking really hard about it, he just didn't care enough. I think, he changed, but I can also understand that Snape cannot forgive him. If Draco "changed", I wouldn't expect Ron or Harry to change their minds about him, too. Too much has happened, the dislike is too strong. But it is possible, right? Draco was inattentive and teased a dangerous animal biting him. Afterwards, he was scandalized (regard any child teasing a dog, when the dog will bite back, it's ALWAYS the dog's fault from the kids perspective!) and felt no compassion for the animal when his daddy wanted to have him decapitated. No, probably, that was even one of the Great moments in the history of Lucius and his son, united in mutual dislike, because from the little we can see, Lucius doesn't waste too much time with his son concerning proper education or attention. Draco takes it when he can get it, and the Buckbeak incident was brilliant for this cause.
We don't know about Sirius, his parent's home was terrible for all we see, so maybe that's HIS excuse for being a bully and potential man-slaughterer (I don't know if this term is right, I meant to use a term weaker than "murderer" and the dictionary suggested this, though it's looks even worse, doesn't it?); in the end, I don't care too much, he was "old" and had changed already, so when we are confronted with his sins of youth, I'm absolutely sure that Mrs. Rowling wanted to say something with this!
Back to James and Sirius: James was a git himself, unlike Harry later, so I cannot congratulate neither him nor Sirius to their marvellous taste in choosing friends. They matched each other, fine enough, if Harry had a slightly different character, he might have made friends with Draco on their first day. If Ron and Hagrid hadn't told him how awful Slytherin was, he would not have objected to being sorted there and he and Draco could have been best mates or whatever. It's just not different, you know what I mean? Harry was lucky, Draco wasn't. Sirius and James were lucky, too, making the best out of each other after a while. I never understood why they were friends with Lupin - I really like that guy, after all, I found, he resembles Harry the most in his character and decency. But certainly, this friendship had mildened their flaws enormously. Draco could have been different, too, that's all I say, but again, where the hell should he find somebody like that? We don't know about the other Slytherins, but apparently, they all are not charming or decent or good - if there was somebody like that, he would never admit it, right? And the other houses contempt the Slytherins right from the start.
You know, I have a kind of problem with this whole thing not only for Draco's sake but because I find this way, Hogwarts uses to educate children (and those children will become mighty wizards, so pay attention what you teach them!!!) highly dangerous and despicable. When the Sorting Hat sang his last song, he criticised the former policy in my eyes, and he was right in doing so. The hatred and the prejudice are too deep already, and these are only kids, leave them spend some more years, and you'll have a bunch of fanatics on BOTH sides. If Harry was attacked for his flaws like this, I would probably write the same justifications for him, but he has enough defenders. And he has flaws. Draco's flaws are bigger, for sure, but still, I cannot acceppt when he is condemned like that, before he has done something "maturely bad". There's this phrase about self-fullfilling prophecies - Draco's fate is one. The more he is hated (and he knows that he is, he was the first suspect when the Chamber of Secrets was opened) the more he is going to do to earn the disdain that is already his.

Pyro Duo
October 18th, 2003, 7:14 am
maybe the only way to get attention from his parents is to act that way. Or proper up bringing in a pure-blooded wizarding community. We all want to know the question what makes Draco Malfoy tick but we will have to wait, because J.K.R. probaly won't ever mention it.

Fleur du mal
October 18th, 2003, 11:49 am
maybe the only way to get attention from his parents is to act that way. Or proper up bringing in a pure-blooded wizarding community. We all want to know the question what makes Draco Malfoy tick but we will have to wait, because J.K.R. probaly won't ever mention it.


nah, don't be to sure... :eyebrows: she won't have some kind of psychogram of him, for certain. But I cannot imagine why she should have created those striking resemblances between Draco's and the marauders' behaviour - I don't think it was only to increase Harry's bad mood still a little more.

Angora
December 23rd, 2003, 7:01 am
think about the public and surprising way that the first-year house cup was taken out of Slytherin's hands. It probably seemed to the Slytherins that they were robbed. DD could have doled out these points at anytime, but instead chose to take the cup from Slythies grasp just as they were feeling proud of their accomplishment

That's always bothered me, a) because of the timing and b) because it seems twisted somehow to give people house points for that kind of thing.

I think Draco's in for a sharp shock when daddy decides he isn't fit to be a deatheater. Lucius, I think, is pretty rejecting over all, and it seems like Draco annoys him. He might look on Draco as being weak and unworthy... and I'm one of the people who thinks that he isn't purposely keeping Draco in the loop about much.

If there was going to be any change in Draco's character, it might come after something like that. But I don't really see him turning good, or being a closet goodie all this time. I'm starting to be pretty sure he'll get himself killed before the end (even though I didn't think so initially), but not in a heroic redeeming way. More in an inept "My ill-conceived evil plan was foiled disasterously" way. I'm not sure any more.

Zachary1993
December 23rd, 2003, 7:08 am
Maybe now that his dad is in Askaban he will change because he does not have his dad to set a bad example but then again he has been brought up for 15 years and maybe he will end up just like his dad and be a death eater. He will blame Harry for his dad being sent to Askaban and get worse anything can happen. His dad had a lot of power in the Magic world maybe now that he is in Askaban and can't have any control Draco will ease up and not be such a bully anymore. I guess we just have to wait for books six and seven to see what happens to Draco and everyone else.

Zachary1993
December 23rd, 2003, 7:17 am
never mind, sindatur, I don't have a grudge with Dudley, he doesn't interest me too much because we see him only once a year, but again, I would say that he wasn't born a jerk but that his parents were responsible for his up-bringing and how he should treat other people, especialy those who are weaker than he is.
As for Crabbe and Goyle - they could be saints if Draco told them to, they're just everything that their brain bug tells them. To me, the word "Evil" was always connected with a certain attitude of mind, and Crabbe and Goyle have not enough brains to develop such. No problem with them, they can redeem, they can leave i, I don' care. Where's the fun in a character who is simply dumb? They don't "develop" but they are "formed", it's a too predictable to raise interest.
I haven't read many of the fan fiction stories, though some are really nice, but I know what you mean, and partly, you are right. Nevertheless I felt always intrigued by the way Draco was presented in the books, reading them a whole lot earlier. He is clever enough to grow out of his familiar patterns and I hope, he will. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see him "not fall over the edge completely", because I feel, he is a genuine character, many readers are a bit like him, or were when they were younger. I don't mean the whole "I'm a rich ******* bullying everybody around plus being a notorious racist's fervent son!" thing, but single traits of characters which JKR developed very subtle. All books are presented from Harry's point of view, still, Draco keeps something I like, maybe because I don't agree with Harry's attitude as well.
Again, I would really like to see the scene where Draco laughed about Cedric's death? I'm not kidding, but I read a translation of the Goblet of Fire, and eventually, the translation lost it, I cannot remember to have spotted it. He wouldn't drink to his death, and he said something like "By the way, Diggory's the (some curse word I can't translate) ..." and I always supposed he wanted to finish the sentence "true champion", because mainly that's what he said all the time in the book. He wants to scorn Harry, not Ceddric here, rather the opposite.
For the rest of his failures: yeah, he did all of that and more, being the nasty little git that he is, but truly, in my opinion he hasn't crossed the line yet. All he did was a normal consequence of what he is (by the way, he didn't let Buckbeak be sentenced to death, that was his daddy), and again, I have to enhance that I don't believe that he's having one of theese little white rabbit's cores. He IS spoilt to the core, and probably this effect cannot be brought out of him ever again. All I say is that there is a huge gap between being an unbearable bully and becoming a murderer, Draco Malfoy is surely guilty of the first accuse, but I don't think he's capable of the second. And that's the point - if there were only small Hermoines and Harrys running around there, the school time would be a great time for everybody. As it is not, we have to realise that there are a whole lot of Dracos, Crabbes, Dudleys and Mariettas out there, not evil, but nasty and determined to ruin your day. I dare to claim that 99,9 % of them grow up to be quite normal persons. I just wouldn't like to see the behaviour of a fourteen year-old (the Dementor prank) is the basis to judge his character for the rest of his life.
You said, Sirius looked for better friends: I don't know in which house he was, and I haven't followed the thread concerning this question. From my perspective, it looks like the Harry we know would have never made friends with Sirius, if he had been the one attending school with him. After all, Sirius resembled Draco a lot, and Harry had been bullied for too long by Dudley to find that a good thing in one of his friends. BESIDES: if it comes to judging school boys behaviour, Ron's behaviour towards Hermoine is outrageous in the first book, that is real mean jumping on the weakest, I'm sorry to say so. But he changed, of course, and we don't want to remember his flaws when he was eleven.
So, Sirius. You write, James felt terrible, and sure you're right, but Sirius did not, sending Snape there in the first place. He was capable of killing with 16, though he surely didn't mean to, thinking really hard about it, he just didn't care enough. I think, he changed, but I can also understand that Snape cannot forgive him. If Draco "changed", I wouldn't expect Ron or Harry to change their minds about him, too. Too much has happened, the dislike is too strong. But it is possible, right? Draco was inattentive and teased a dangerous animal biting him. Afterwards, he was scandalized (regard any child teasing a dog, when the dog will bite back, it's ALWAYS the dog's fault from the kids perspective!) and felt no compassion for the animal when his daddy wanted to have him decapitated. No, probably, that was even one of the Great moments in the history of Lucius and his son, united in mutual dislike, because from the little we can see, Lucius doesn't waste too much time with his son concerning proper education or attention. Draco takes it when he can get it, and the Buckbeak incident was brilliant for this cause.
We don't know about Sirius, his parent's home was terrible for all we see, so maybe that's HIS excuse for being a bully and potential man-slaughterer (I don't know if this term is right, I meant to use a term weaker than "murderer" and the dictionary suggested this, though it's looks even worse, doesn't it?); in the end, I don't care too much, he was "old" and had changed already, so when we are confronted with his sins of youth, I'm absolutely sure that Mrs. Rowling wanted to say something with this!
Back to James and Sirius: James was a git himself, unlike Harry later, so I cannot congratulate neither him nor Sirius to their marvellous taste in choosing friends. They matched each other, fine enough, if Harry had a slightly different character, he might have made friends with Draco on their first day. If Ron and Hagrid hadn't told him how awful Slytherin was, he would not have objected to being sorted there and he and Draco could have been best mates or whatever. It's just not different, you know what I mean? Harry was lucky, Draco wasn't. Sirius and James were lucky, too, making the best out of each other after a while. I never understood why they were friends with Lupin - I really like that guy, after all, I found, he resembles Harry the most in his character and decency. But certainly, this friendship had mildened their flaws enormously. Draco could have been different, too, that's all I say, but again, where the hell should he find somebody like that? We don't know about the other Slytherins, but apparently, they all are not charming or decent or good - if there was somebody like that, he would never admit it, right? And the other houses contempt the Slytherins right from the start.
You know, I have a kind of problem with this whole thing not only for Draco's sake but because I find this way, Hogwarts uses to educate children (and those children will become mighty wizards, so pay attention what you teach them!!!) highly dangerous and despicable. When the Sorting Hat sang his last song, he criticised the former policy in my eyes, and he was right in doing so. The hatred and the prejudice are too deep already, and these are only kids, leave them spend some more years, and you'll have a bunch of fanatics on BOTH sides. If Harry was attacked for his flaws like this, I would probably write the same justifications for him, but he has enough defenders. And he has flaws. Draco's flaws are bigger, for sure, but still, I cannot acceppt when he is condemned like that, before he has done something "maturely bad". There's this phrase about self-fullfilling prophecies - Draco's fate is one. The more he is hated (and he knows that he is, he was the first suspect when the Chamber of Secrets was opened) the more he is going to do to earn the disdain that is already his.
You are right His parents treat Harry badly so Dudley follows their example. They also spoil him and giive everything he wants so if he does not get what he wants he throws a tantrum until he does like when his parents only gave him thirty six presents and he got 37 last year.

Crabbe and Goyle they just do what Draco do you are right they do not think for themselves. They just follow Draco around like dogs.

And Draco he laughed at Cedric's death and there is nothing funny about that anyone that laughs about someone dying has serious problems. They do not care what they do and he will probably end up like you know who and hurt others for fun.

Harry well he may not be a git but he has a temper now. I think it is mainly because he feels cheated. His parents were killed by the man who must not be named. People keep secrets from him and the secrets are about him. He just lost Sirius the only relitive he had left that treated him with respect.

And for James he was kind of a bully but Sirius said it had to do something with Snape being in the Dark arts and James hated that. Also he was trying to impress Lily.

pasmosa
January 16th, 2004, 4:30 pm
I have been noticing a pattern around Draco Malfoy. He always seems to mirror the attitude / behavior of the Death Eaters as a general group. We don't realize this at first because we don't really see the Death Eaters in the open, but it becomes more and more obvious as the years progress.

At first Draco is just sneaky and slimy, pretending to be good on the surface to adults. Meanwhile, Death Eaters are trying to blend in with society and hide their disgust with the good guys.

When Voldemort returns at the end of GoF, Draco is excited and cocky, and is not so afraid to show his disdain for those who oppose Voldemort. Likewise, the Death Eaters are excited about Voldemort's return.

Draco becomes more powerful and extra mean in the 5th year, while the Death Eaters are doing the same. Draco is overpowered by the unlikely Ginny in Umbridge's office and then the Death Eaters are overpowered by "kids" at the MoM. Afterwards, Draco is very angry and wrathful. We can assume that the Death Eaters are feeling the same way.

Watching Draco can help us predict what the Death Eaters' state of mind or even their next move will be.

PaperFlowers
January 16th, 2004, 10:06 pm
Good point! :clap: There is definatly some kind of pattern!

GryffindorGr
January 16th, 2004, 10:46 pm
by pasmosa Draco becomes more powerful and extra mean in the 5th year

a couple of good points BUT how is he more powerful than the others? Harry and his cohorts are also as powerful, if not even more so? Where has he displayed any of his powers that Harry and his gang have already in the DoM? In fact, it was Umbridge that displayed her tyrannical attitude to the group and the slytherin gang just backed her up, enjoying the power that she gave to them. He's always been nasty and mean. Even more now that his pride has been pinched because the boy who lived put his father behind azkaban walls. If anything, the others like Ginny, Neville, Luna, etc have shown more power than Draco just being a typical nasty bully.

pasmosa
January 17th, 2004, 12:10 am
Draco became a member of the Inquisitorial Squad, which gave him the power to terrorize his classmates even more than he already did. I should have been more specific. I did not mean that he became significantly more magically powerful. Harry definitely has him beat there.

The Death Eaters were not gaining magical power at that time either. They were getting in place to exercise more terrorizing power orver the community.

I agree that Draco is consistently mean and nasty. The way that he displays that attitude is what changes slightly. It is very subtle, but those changes are what fit the pattern I described.

GryffindorGr
January 17th, 2004, 12:31 am
Draco became a member of the Inquisitorial Squad, which gave him the power to terrorize his classmates even more than he already did. I should have been more specific. I did not mean that he became significantly more magically powerful. Harry definitely has him beat there.


I agree in a way, plus him being a prefect helped him bully more of those around him, as quoted here:

Malfoy was being absolutely foul to a first-year back there. I swear I'm going to report him, he's only had his badge three minutes and he's using it to bully people worse than ever..." --Hermione, OotP,p.178

(I just realized that this is exactly like Lily/James interaction, but with Hermione not facing Draco....just odd:

"...walking down the corridors and hexing anyone who annoys you just because you can--I'm surprised your broomstick can get off the ground with that fat head on it. You make me SICK."--Lily, OotP.p.571

strange.

But canonically speaking, no we have no evidence of him being more "magically powerful than Harry" or even equal to. That's the strange thing. We won't know until book 6, if he lives up to our expectation of his words, You're dead, Potter
It'd be interesting to read.


The Death Eaters were not gaining magical power at that time either. They were getting in place to exercise more terrorizing power orver the community.

Exactly. Sort of what Hermione says, "Don't listen to him Harry! We all know where his [Malfoy's] faith lies."
He's exactly like the DEs. Maybe that's his way of achieving power and ambition. It certainly is the slytherin way.

jordmundt6
January 17th, 2004, 4:13 am
It's interesting that in a little over one calendar year, Harry and Draco can go from precisely evenely matched (They're about equal from the Dueling Club up through the Hermione/Goyle bystander incident in GoF) to Harry so totally outclassing Draco it's pathetic (Draco has to skulk behind statues and snipe at Harry from behind to have any chance against him at all). As Draco gets more school authority, it seems the limits of his talent are becoming more apparent. Unless Narcissa whips her son into shape he's going to be a true paper tiger in Sixth Year.

GryffindorGr
January 17th, 2004, 8:41 am
It's interesting that in a little over one calendar year, Harry and Draco can go from precisely evenely matched (They're about equal from the Dueling Club up through the Hermione/Goyle bystander incident in GoF) to Harry so totally outclassing Draco it's pathetic (Draco has to skulk behind statues and snipe at Harry from behind to have any chance against him at all). As Draco gets more school authority, it seems the limits of his talent are becoming more apparent. Unless Narcissa whips her son into shape he's going to be a true paper tiger in Sixth Year.

Absolutely, jordmundt6. I can't wait to see what Draco's made of, if he's going to go against Harry and prove his worth. We've seen them duel it out throughout, and even Draco out smarting him in SS, but Hermione is too clever and figures it out each time for the trio. In CoS, that was a good duel, and even in GoF, when they hit eachother with the wands--actually missing, it was evenly matched. Book 5 didn't show much of Draco's actions although we've seen him as a prefect and given some power duties by Umbridge, but that's about the extent of it. In a twisted way, I want to see some serious dueling in the future books. lol.

lxs234
January 17th, 2004, 3:54 pm
I think draco got the teeniest tiniest little little bit more powerful, since he did know that trip spell, or whatever it was he hexed harry with when harry was running away from umbridge. apparently, harry didn't know it...

jordmundt6
January 17th, 2004, 5:41 pm
More knowledge means more exposure, not more power.

Example--Severus knew probably twice as many curses as James Potter but James could victimize him at will. Why? Greater speed and greater power on the individual spells than Severus.

I don't think Draco has more power than Harry (I'd like to see him try to shake off the Imperius Curse or produce a corporeal Patronus). As for the Tripping Jinx--Did Harry hear the incantation? I think what happened was that he was running and suddenly his legs went flying out from under him. When Draco proudly says "Tripping Jinx, Potter!" Harry doesn't think What the HECK is THAT?, so I think he's familiar with it, just doesn't use it because it's not as effective as the comparable Impedimenta. We actually did see Harry and Draco seriously duel at the end of OotP. Draco went for his wand, but Harry had his out and leveled before Draco could extract his wand from his pocket. Had Snape not come along, Harry could have (and may have--though I doubt it) totally obliterated Draco, Vinny, and Greg.

GryffindorGr
January 17th, 2004, 5:49 pm
More knowledge means more exposure, not more power.

Example--Severus knew probably twice as many curses as James Potter but James could victimize him at will. Why? Greater speed and greater power on the individual spells than Severus.



Excellent analysis, jordmundt6. You know, you're right. I mean, Harry is like his father in the way of Quidditch, has that seeker quick lightning ability to be quicker but like the Severus/James--you can know more spells, but you can't use them if yoúr opponent is quicker.
Probably why Snape had to use subterfuge to get back at James if ever he had to.

As for Patronus's and Imperius curses, I wonder why JKR never showed Draco with Moody in the part of Imperius curses when Moody was experimenting with them? It's rather difficult to make a patronus and even if Draco had one, we wouldn't know since we're in Harry's pov. there's too much we dont know about Draco really until book 6.

lxs234
January 17th, 2004, 10:35 pm
Oh sorry, i didn't mean draco was more powerful than harry, just more powerful then he had been last year. well, actually, he seemed more dangerous in the fourth book...

GryffindorGr
January 19th, 2004, 3:32 am
Oh sorry, i didn't mean draco was more powerful than harry, just more powerful then he had been last year. well, actually, he seemed more dangerous in the fourth book...

actually thats great that you mentioned the tripping curse. i nearly forgot about that. It's just that we know so little of Draco besides him being your typical stylish bully.

And since we're on the subject of Draco, i want to comment on something else that came up about him and was wondering about his own status of being an animagus? I know it was mentioned in other threads and since this is the topic on thoughts on his character, well, its quite interesting that Draco gave knowledge of animagi himself. For example, it was noted by a friend of mine who questioned that there were a couple of instances in GoF, when Harry and Hermione noticed that Draco looked like he was talking into a walkie-talkie? We know now that he was informing Rita Skeeter ,an unregistered animagus. Then, there was the other instance when Draco casually said to Harry ...dogging your footsteps indicating Sirius, another unregistered. Unless Draco had inside information, how could he recognize an Animagus? Are normally hidden to the 'untrained' eye.... characteristics of shape-changers noticable to any other who has the same talent?

Like eyes, noses, personality traits in families - why not shape changing?

all the animagi that we know of seemed to have a need to transform: Sirius, James, and Peter did it for the love of their friend, Rita did it to get information, I don't know about McGonagall - maybe to effectively fulfill her duties as Deputy Headmistress? If this is true, that having a need is necessary to learn to be an animagus, and if our Draco does have the talent, what does he use it for? He seems to be one step ahead of Harry so often.

jordmundt6
January 19th, 2004, 3:40 am
"so often"--Try almost never. Though he'd had the lifelong exposure, when there was comparison on pure talent--Harry outclassed him. Flying--Draco'd been doing it wrong for years. Harry was a natural. Only in Potions has Draco been consistently ahead of Harry and that's at least partially due to instructor bias. These days, Draco seems to be the one who's one or two steps behind.

GryffindorGr
January 19th, 2004, 4:08 am
granted, Draco's definitely not a Quidditch guy but he can still fly a broom and was good at it, and since I re-watched PS on film, its amazing how he got on that broom and was able to manuveur it well for an 11 year old. Harry too was doing quite well although he took a few seconds to get used to the broom, but was quick to move about like 2nd skin.
But let's put aside our prejudices of the nasty enemy for awhile and take a look at the possibility of him actually being an animagus--since how was he able to know about Rita Skeeter and Sirius Black? Inside information?

lxs234
January 19th, 2004, 4:15 am
Where are the threads that talk about Draco possibly being an animagus? I'd like to read those.

I had forgotten that Draco had been flying wrong his whole life. That really sucks....

GryffindorGr
January 19th, 2004, 4:23 am
Where are the threads that talk about Draco possibly being an animagus? I'd like to read those.

I had forgotten that Draco had been flying wrong his whole life. That really sucks....

actually i did a search and it led me to this. lol.
there really isn't one but i only put in draco and animagus. But Draco flying wrong his whole life? That was only when Madame Hooch tried explaining it to him in their first year. I dont think that's an indication of his whole life if we want to talk about 2nd to 5th year now....I believe by now he's gotten it right. lol. Like i said above, if you watch PS again, you'll see he's quite good at flying for an 11 year old, it was just the first instruction of getting on the broom, then afterwards he zoomed out into the sky quite well.

DrummerboyDT
January 19th, 2004, 4:24 am
I think that Draco is really influenced by his father. He is probably going to turn out to be just like him.

Fleur du mal
January 19th, 2004, 8:48 am
don't you think, Draco would already have used his talent if he got it after all? I thought about it for quite a time, but I don't think he got it, otherwise, he would have showed off with it // used it to trick or overwhelm Harry.
but it's funny, that this skill should lie within the family, or rather say: the not-so-pure parts of the family got it, what nice dramatic irony.

sanchou
January 19th, 2004, 2:18 pm
I observed Malfoy didn't retaliate Hermione's slap and Ginny's hex, so maybe he has a few strong points we haven't known, he can redeem himself or become to another Snape.

complicated
January 19th, 2004, 2:22 pm
I think Draco Malfoy is a nice boy behind that evil, richy, bully,jealousy mask. I think in his heart he his very hurt because of the way his father treated him. Draco can get anything in the world since his dad is very rich and i'm sure Lucius buys alot of things for him but there is one thing that money can't buy ...which is love and friendship. That is why Draco is jealous of Harry because harry has true friends and there is people who loves him. From all these pain in his heart it made him tough..well act tough so he won't get hurt from those stuff but deep down his heart he is crying/screaming with pain and agony... I hope you get me. i'm just trying to explore his heart, trying to see what is it like to be like him, you know going into people shoes.