Harry's Discovery v2 [Archive] - Chamber of Secrets

Gryffindorhero

September 23rd, 2004, 11:24 pm

Yes of course, the sword. I think with English folklore being what it is, there is almost no way that JK would throw something like pulling a sword out of impossible-to-find-sword locals and not know exactly what she was doing. cough<hero archetype>cough. nisely done.

I think that this is the discovery that she is talking about, that Harry doubted very strongly his placement in the Gryffindor house and the hat told him that he might have been better off in Slytherin. It was not until Harry was up a chamber without a paddle that he had his fears assauged and learned that he was a "true" gryffindor".

Dumbledore tells him:

"If you want proof, Harry, that you belong in Gryffindor, I suggest you look more closely at this."
Dumbledore reached across to Professor McGonagall's desk, picked up the blood-stained sword, and handed it to Harry. Dully, Harry turned it over, the rubies blazing in the firelight. And then he saw the name engraved just below the hilt.
Godric Gryffindor.
"Only a true Gryffinodr could have pulled that out of a hat, Harry," said Dumbledore simply.

p 334, American edition, CoS

xXangelXx

September 23rd, 2004, 11:27 pm

hotmama2

alpha_hazard

September 23rd, 2004, 11:31 pm

I think that the Concept of loyalty to is important...I would say that Harry will further discover how loyalty can make him stronger than any other magic.

Fuchsia

September 24th, 2004, 1:03 am

I'm in favor of the transferred Voldemort powers and in relation to that, parseltongue abilities.

Snidget66

September 24th, 2004, 2:19 am

I believe that it has something to do with the night that LV turned up at Godric's Hollow and transferred his powers into Harry. Something to do with that bond that the two of them share OR the ancestry of Harry and his relation to Gryffindor.

xharrypotterx

September 24th, 2004, 2:39 am

Version Two woo hoo! :rotfl:

Originally Posted by nano:
Who knows, perhaps it will be more to do with timetravel, but I am not saying I'm certain, for I find too many possibilities in JKR's words.

We don't find out about time travel as a "factual" possibility until the third book, so I think that we can rule this theory out....although there may be more to do with time travel in the later books because of how JKR referencesed the time turners in the DoM in book 5.

Originally Posted by Gryffindorhero:
Yes of course, the sword. I think with English folklore being what it is, there is almost no way that JK would throw something like pulling a sword out of impossible-to-find-sword locals and not know exactly what she was doing. cough<hero archetype>cough. nisely done.

I think that this is the discovery that she is talking about, that Harry doubted very strongly his placement in the Gryffindor house and the hat told him that he might have been better off in Slytherin. It was not until Harry was up a chamber without a paddle that he had his fears assauged and learned that he was a "true" gryffindor".

If Harry and Voldemort have to duel without their wands (most likely...priori incantatem) then I think that this would have to be the way in which a final battle would take place. So it seems likely that (as I said in the last thread) if Harry is truely Godric Gryffindor's sole living heir, then it seems likely that Harry would have to use the sword in order to vanquish Lord Voldemort. It would tie into "settling the score" so-to-speak between Gryffindor and Slytherin. I think that it is possible that the sword will come back into play sometime within the series. Afterall, the sword is on the cover of the CoS DVD cover....:D

Originally Posted by Snidget66:
I believe that it has something to do with the night that LV turned up at Godric's Hollow and transferred his powers into Harry. Something to do with that bond that the two of them share OR the ancestry of Harry and his relation to Gryffindor.

When I first heard of this theory, I put alot of thought into it and considered it very possible. However, now that I have seen other theories and what-not, I can't see this as "the discovery." My main point of dissuasion against this theory is this: How much more emphasis can be put on the connection that the two (Harry and LV) share? Almost every book has delt with Harry's scar twinging when Voldemort is near and at the end of the fourth book Voldemort comes back to full strength and Harry has a much more direct channel to Voldemort's emotions. Voldemort used this against Harry in the OotP, but how much more emphasis could JKR put on this connection? Unless the connection comes into determining the outcome of Harry and Voldemort's final battle, I can't see this as a possibility.

Originally Posted by Lady Greyjoy:
The Mudblood/Pureblood dynamic was very prominent in CoS, and we all know the title of the sixth book. I'm pretty sure that Harry's Discovery in Book Six will be of this nature, that is he will learn about his ancestry and his past in general (more information on the power he has), and much of our squabbling will be laid to rest (unfortunatly :( ).

This also has alot of potential in my mind...mainly because the theme of tolerance of people's ancestry and their differences is such a promenant plot line throughout the septology.

I think I am leaning towards the potential of the sword.

DayVirgo

September 24th, 2004, 3:08 am

I think I'm going to have to agree with the theroy of racism. Race first becomes an issue in the series in CoS in a number of ways:

1) Harry first learns was the term Mudblood means in CoS.
2) He also learns about attitudes in the wizarding world toward mud/half/pure bloods. 3) Voldemort reveals that he is a half-blood to Harry.
4) Slytherin house general only selects pure bloods. The password to get into the Slytherin common room was also 'pure blood.'

I'm sure there are more.

crumseekerlynch

September 24th, 2004, 3:10 am

I think it might have to do with memories.

CicadaInvasion

September 24th, 2004, 3:11 am

atherella

September 24th, 2004, 4:13 am

winter snow

September 24th, 2004, 6:49 am

I'm glad to see the discussion moving away from actual tangible objects. I definitely think that Harry's discovery is a self-discovery.

Definitely think the idea of discovering that LV transferred some of his powers to Harry is important. Supposedly LV transferred powers, which is plural. So far, we only know of parseltounge, so I'd assume there's more. Also, the prophecy states that LV will mark him as his equal. While the exact meaning of that is up in the air, it's plausabile to think it might mean that he transferred enough power to Harry to make him his equal. Since the final confrontational will be with Harry at the age of 17, he's definitely going to have to become much more powerful than he is. JKR has also stated in interviews that Harry will become more powerful. Taking all that into account, I think the powers that LV transferred to Harry are the discovery he makes. Harry will begin to recognize these powers and learn how to use them and strengthen his skills.

I have to say I like this idea. I believe it is time to explore the intangibles. It makes a good deal of sense. Harry is a teenager now and all teenagers have to go through self discovery. It's a part of growing up. Harry will learn more about his strengths and weaknesses. Maybe in learning more about his parents, he can reconcile himself to who he is.

I like the idea that you've come up with for explaining how Voldermort marked Harry as his equal. We know Harry is a parseltongue. I wonder what other powers Voldermort transferred to Harry that night? This will be interesting to find out.

With Harry's powers expanding Harry's growth as a person will be very interesting to see. Good thinking Atherella! I like reading your posts, they're very thought provoking. :) You've definitely given us something to think about.

Sirius Snape

September 24th, 2004, 11:47 am

I can only assume the major thing he learned was the art of the anagram, im sure hes going to have his ready for the final showdown against Voldemort.

peeves98

September 24th, 2004, 12:59 pm

McKinnon02

September 24th, 2004, 4:14 pm

I believe the discovery Harry had made was a personal discovery. It deals with the sword, but indirectly. Harry was surprised he had pulled Gryffindor's sword out of the hat. Dumbledore explained why he was not in Slytherin, even when he had the ability to speak Parseltounge- because Harry made a choice not to be. The presiding theme of the books has been that it is someone's choices that define who they are- and I believe that book 6 will deal with the choices the HBP makes.

Ralen

September 24th, 2004, 4:29 pm

i think it would be harry's discovery of those two snakes entwined with ruby eyes right at the entry of the chamber of secrets. DD's writhing snakes rising out of that silvery stuff in OoTP where he's saying "... but in essence divided" kind of reminded me of these CoS snakes.

Actually, they had emerald green eyes. The sword had rubies though.

My pick is Harry's discovering that it's the choices that we make that make us who we are. I think the discovery of choice will be relevant to the prophecy. Although it's half come true so far, something will make Harry realise that the whole prophecy doesn't have to be realised at all even though it was foreseen by a true Seer.
His realisation of this, will make him even more powerful than Dumbledore and Voldemort who both seem to believe in preordained desitny's.

This is more relevant to the end of the series but Harry could make more of these types of discovery through book 6.

He discovered so many intangible and tangible things in book 2 that everytime I think I've narrowed it down, it expands even more :sigh:

EDIT: Was writing this when McKinnon02 got there before me. Wasn't intending to repeat what you said sorry! But it seems we both agree :)

ramones

September 24th, 2004, 9:04 pm

Discovering that he was a true Gryffindor was really important.

Besides pointing to a possible link between Harry and Godric Gryffindor, it reassured Harry of who he is.
He is in G, with the friends, the House of the Brave. He is not in Slytherin, the House of Dark Wizards, House of his enemy Voldemort.

OccultPotato

September 26th, 2004, 5:14 pm

If any of you have been to the threadSPOILERS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion v.5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=34076) you will see that they have on every page a list of all the ideas on that they have come up with to use as reference in discussions (also so things aren't repeated innumerable times). A list like that would be very helpful for this thread. Is anyone willing to take up the challenge? :eyebrows:

George ^_^

lil_angel5682

September 26th, 2004, 6:02 pm

Yeah I think that it was him finding out that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to him/and him being a parseltounge (kinda the same thing.)

McKinnon02

September 26th, 2004, 7:26 pm

"Was writing this when McKinnon02 got there before me. Wasn't intending to repeat what you said sorry! But it seems we both agree."

Yep! Not a problem. The entire series seems to spin around the fact that it is a person's choices who define who they are.

Andos

September 27th, 2004, 12:21 am

My leading contenders for what Harry learnt that was so important are two (not necessarily in order):

1. Harry "killing" the Riddle diary character forshadows killing Voldemort in the end. Harry kills Riddle by using the basilisk fang ... turning Riddle's own weapon back against him. Maybe Harry turns a weapon of Voldemort's back against him in the end, as maybes Harry's mother might have tried to do with the Avada Kedavra spell in Godrick's Hollow, partially successfully perhaps. A very strong piece of foreshadowing all the same.

2. Secondly, this quote:

"If you want proof, Harry, that you belong in Gryffindor, I suggest you look more closely at this."
Dumbledore reached across to Professor McGonagall's desk, picked up the blood-stained sword, .........Only a true Gryffinodr could have pulled that out of a hat, Harry," said Dumbledore simply.

But I believe the true revelation here is the nature of the hat itself...

Remember Dumbledore telling Harry at the start of CoS that help would be on hand if he asked for it, and then later in the chamber:

The basilisk had swept the Sorting Hat into Harry’s arms. Harry seized it. It was all he had left, his only chance — he rammed it onto his head and threw himself flat onto the floor as the basilisk’s tail swung over him again.

Help me — help me — Harry thought, his eyes screwed tight under the hat. Please help me.

There was no answering voice. Instead, the hat contracted, as though an invisible hand was squeezing it very tightly.

Something very hard and heavy thudded onto the top of Harry’s head, almost knocking him out. Stars winking in front of his eyes, he grabbed the top of the hat to pull it off and felt something long and hard beneath it.

A gleaming silver sword had appeared inside the hat, its handle glittering with rubies the size of eggs.

So the hat, kind of like the Room of Requirements, seems to be able to give what is needed at times of great difficulty. It's subtle, but JK has hinted that the hat's role will be enhanced in later books.

nej

September 27th, 2004, 2:34 am

Giebfried

September 27th, 2004, 8:03 pm

Although I see the point of the people who say that it is the racism issue in the wizarding world. But I don't hink that qualifies as "a discovery Harry made" I beleive that it refers to his connection with Voldemort, how their minds are linked and the ablilites they share.

Buckbeak2004

September 27th, 2004, 8:17 pm

I think that Harry's powers that were transferred from Voldemort to him will be Harry's discovery. In book 2 he discovered that he could speak parseltounge. Perhaps in book 6 he will discover another power he possesses which was so kindly donated from Voldemort :huh:

Tane

September 27th, 2004, 9:05 pm

I'm in favor of the transferred Voldemort powers and in relation to that, parseltongue abilities.I have to agree with this as Harry learned from Dumbledore that Voldemort might have transferred some of his powers across to him and yet Harry has not attempted to discover what those powers exactly are that where transferred. Did Voldemort transfer his power to be able to dodge death on that day he attacked Harry for example.

I do think Godric Gryffindor sword will come back into play, he discovered that he was in fact a Gryffindor and pulled the sword out of the hat, the one belonging to Godric, so it is probably a very important discovery for Harry and perhaps there is greater meaning to it all.

On the other hand the biggest discovery was the chamber itself as Harry found out where it was something no one else could do.

HedwigOwl

September 28th, 2004, 2:09 am

I have to agree with this as Harry learned from Dumbledore that Voldemort might have transferred some of his powers across to him and yet Harry has not attempted to discover what those powers exactly are that where transferred. Did Voldemort transfer his power to be able to dodge death on that day he attacked Harry for example.

Interesting point, Harry seems not to have focused on discovering other powers he may have gotten thru the scar. I've just finished re-reading CoS very carefully, and the 2 most important discoveries I found were the one you've stated above about VM's transferring powers to Harry; and equally important, that the choices you make count more than the abilities you start with.

McKinnon02

September 29th, 2004, 12:10 am

Interesting point, Harry seems not to have focused on discovering other powers he may have gotten thru the scar. I've just finished re-reading CoS very carefully, and the 2 most important discoveries I found were the one you've stated above about VM's transferring powers to Harry; and equally important, that the choices you make count more than the abilities you start with.

Well, let's look at the powers Voldemort has exhibited that Harry has not, and why Harry would/would not want to try to see if he has them.

1. I think the first and most obvious is Voldemort's ability to avoid being killed by Avada Kedavra and various other curses. But let's face it, do you really want someone firing an AK curse at you just to see if you'll survive?

2. Voldemort can possess people, Harry has shown no signs of doing so. While it might be fun for Harry to possess Draco ( :rotfl: :tu: ), I don't think he has the heart to shorten their lifespan. And he's by no means an expert- he could easily kill someone by doing something wrong.

3. Voldemort's powers do not merely lie in the arena of defensive and offensive spells and protections. His powers of persuasion, deception and manipulation are incredible, his mental prowess (Legilimency skill) is nearly unmatched, and his confidence in battle is nearly unshakable. In fact, the only time we have ever seen it waver was during the golden web scene in Goblet. Harry, on the other hand, has a midlevel knowledge of offensive and even fewer defensive spells. This he can improve easily, all he has to do is spend a few hours in the library and then go practice. However, Harry has no persuasive power, very little manipulative skill, and almost no Occlumency skill. (Whether or not he has Legilimency is debatable). He is often uncertain in battle and only "knows" what to do when the answer is dancing in front of him naked with Dobby's tea cozy on. (Thank you, Ron Weasley. :rotfl: ) Harry can improve on these, but it will take time- and time is something Harry has run out of.

TashiGrumblewig

September 29th, 2004, 2:51 am

I like a lot of the ideas out there - especially those about Harry's learning about Harry learning about his connection to Voldemort, and also of the prejudices in the wizarding world.

Here's another idea, which kind of relates to the first one about Harry's connection to Voldemort:

Harry begins to learn about Phoenixes in the second book. Although he learned the core of his wand in book one, it's in book two that he meets and is saved by Fawkes, and learns about the powers of Phoenixes. It is also the first time he hears the Phoenix song.

When he hears the Phoenix song in the Chamber, Harry is described as undergoing a sensation that feels like his heart is swelling. (I don't have my book handy - I can't remember exactly how it goes.)

We know Phoenixes are important - not only does Fawkes seem to represent Dumbledore, but Harry's and Voldemort's wands share a core of Fawkes' tail feathers. In the fourth book, when they undergo Priori Incantantem, they hear Phoenix song.

In the fifth book, Voldemort cannot possess Harry, because of Harry's heart, and his love for Sirius.

Do you think these are connected? Maybe Harry's revelation is related to the Phoenix/Phoenix song, and that will be an important theme in the next book.

And I thought I was the only one.
I agree that Fawkes was an important discovery made in CoS. When Ron sees Fawkes in CoS, (and please forgive me because I don't have my book in front of me so I can't give a page #) as Harry and Ginny returned from the chamber, Ron asks where Fawkes came from and Harry says he's a pheonix and then says that Fawkes is "no ordinary bird". I think that the instances you cited, and this one, may be the discovery. Add to it the fact that the Order is named for the pheonix, plus Dumbledore's association with pheonixes and I am of the belief that it is Fawkes, not just pheonixes. I may be a bit biased though, as I have a soft spot for Fawkes. ( notice the sig? ;) )

ramones

September 29th, 2004, 3:50 am

Phoenixes are very important in the Harry Potter series.

Fawkes is connected to DD, and he is connected to phoenixes, just think about his Patronus.

I don't know if Harry has a connection to phoenixes in general, but he definitely has one with Fawkes.
Fawkes feather is in his wand, he bought him the hat, his tears healed him, he heard a phoenix's song in the graveyard, Fawkes let out a note that helped Harry tell the story about the graveyard. Wow, that a lot!

But does Harry's encounter with Fawkes count as a 'discovery'? Not in my opinion.

Definitely the 2 major discoveries in CoS, are Harry's connection to Voldemort, and GG's sword, Harry being a true Gryffindor.
Which one of these is the discovery, I don't know, but I'm sure both will play an important part in future books.

HedwigOwl

September 29th, 2004, 7:00 am

Well, let's look at the powers Voldemort has exhibited that Harry has not, and why Harry would/would not want to try to see if he has them.

1. I think the first and most obvious is Voldemort's ability to avoid being killed by Avada Kedavra and various other curses. But let's face it, do you really want someone firing an AK curse at you just to see if you'll survive?

2. Voldemort can possess people, Harry has shown no signs of doing so. While it might be fun for Harry to possess Draco ( :rotfl: :tu: ), I don't think he has the heart to shorten their lifespan. And he's by no means an expert- he could easily kill someone by doing something wrong.

3. Voldemort's powers do not merely lie in the arena of defensive and offensive spells and protections. His powers of persuasion, deception and manipulation are incredible, his mental prowess (Legilimency skill) is nearly unmatched, and his confidence in battle is nearly unshakable. In fact, the only time we have ever seen it waver was during the golden web scene in Goblet. Harry, on the other hand, has a midlevel knowledge of offensive and even fewer defensive spells. This he can improve easily, all he has to do is spend a few hours in the library and then go practice. However, Harry has no persuasive power, very little manipulative skill, and almost no Occlumency skill. (Whether or not he has Legilimency is debatable). He is often uncertain in battle and only "knows" what to do when the answer is dancing in front of him naked with Dobby's tea cozy on. (Thank you, Ron Weasley. :rotfl: ) Harry can improve on these, but it will take time- and time is something Harry has run out of.

OK, not sure if we have enough solid info about point #1, aren't we all just speculating on JKR's question of why VM didn't die?

Agree about the possession power, Harry likely would never use it if he had it.

On your third point, a lot of the things you mention -- persuasion, manipulation, confidence in battle -- these are not magical powers, they're characteristics. I also have a different read on your assessment of Harry (often uncertain, mid-level knowledge). Of course he's uncertain, he's often facing situations for the first time, but this has nothing to do with his resolve, and while you see it as "not knowing what to do until the answer is dancing in front of him", I think he's very resourceful and he never gives up, even if he thinks he's going to die. When VM was throwing out an Avada Kedavra, Harry faced him, knowing the spell he (Harry) would use wasn't enough. That seems pretty solid nerve in battle for a 15-year old. And conjuring a patronus powerful enough to drive off a horde of dementors seems a bit better than mid-level.

I think that Harry will be more focused going forward (with the prophecy weighing heavily), and that's going to make a big difference. I believe he's very powerful, just doesn't know it yet.

Rhoryn

September 29th, 2004, 11:24 am

Hope this hasn't been mentioned before, but..
When I first read the book, I got the impression that the chamber was like a temple, maybe we learn the slytherin was trying to make a god out of himself, we could call Voldemorts bid for immortality the same thing?

ramones

September 29th, 2004, 4:38 pm

3. Voldemort's powers do not merely lie in the arena of defensive and offensive spells and protections. His powers of persuasion, deception and manipulation are incredible, his mental prowess (Legilimency skill) is nearly unmatched, and his confidence in battle is nearly unshakable. In fact, the only time we have ever seen it waver was during the golden web scene in Goblet. Harry, on the other hand, has a midlevel knowledge of offensive and even fewer defensive spells. This he can improve easily, all he has to do is spend a few hours in the library and then go practice. However, Harry has no persuasive power, very little manipulative skill, and almost no Occlumency skill. (Whether or not he has Legilimency is debatable). He is often uncertain in battle and only "knows" what to do when the answer is dancing in front of him naked with Dobby's tea cozy on. (Thank you, Ron Weasley. :rotfl: ) Harry can improve on these, but it will take time- and time is something Harry has run out of.

You have to understand that Voldemort has been planning to rule the world since he was a teenager, so he started to learn the Dark Arts and how to duel early on.
Harry is only 16 years old, he's been in the wizarding world for only 5 years, and remember, he's young, of course he doesn't like to study! You can't blame him for not knowing more.
I'm sure that he will be practicing hard from now on, and I'm sure he'll get help from an adult.

McKinnon02 What you have to remember is that Harry has 'powers the Dark Lord knows not', and by using those powers Harry will vanquish Voldemort.
As DD said at the end of OotP: it didn't matter that Harry didn't know how to duel or posses people, what saved him is his heart.

C8H10N4O2

September 29th, 2004, 5:00 pm

I originally thought his discovery that Argus Filch was a squib, combined with JKR mentioning that someone would discover magical abilities when they are older, was the discovery.

More and more, though, I am drawn to Harry's discovery that Voldemort is not pure-blood wizard. Especially the little scene in the Department of Mysteries where he mentions that fact to the DEs and Bellatrix reacts so badly to it.

"He dared - he dares -" shrieked Bellatrix incoherently, "he stands there - filthy half-blood-"What will the DEs do with this knowledge? Or will they refuse to believe it? This could cause serious problems for Voldemort if they choose to believe it. I have to believe this will play significantly in the last two books.

I still don't think we've seen the last of Filch being a squib -- JKR made it stand out, but then, after Filch accuses Harry of petrifying Mrs. Norris because he is a squib, it is no longer mentioned -- not in 3 subsequent books.

drifting.shadow

September 29th, 2004, 7:00 pm

i think the discovery that harry made in the camber that is going to be of a big significance in the later books will be that he pulled godric grfindoors sword out of the sorting hat, its not like anybody can do it, and we never really understood why is happened

McKinnon02

September 29th, 2004, 11:14 pm

OK, not sure if we have enough solid info about point #1, aren't we all just speculating on JKR's question of why VM didn't die?

Agree about the possession power, Harry likely would never use it if he had it.

On your third point, a lot of the things you mention -- persuasion, manipulation, confidence in battle -- these are not magical powers, they're characteristics. I also have a different read on your assessment of Harry (often uncertain, mid-level knowledge). Of course he's uncertain, he's often facing situations for the first time, but this has nothing to do with his resolve, and while you see it as "not knowing what to do until the answer is dancing in front of him", I think he's very resourceful and he never gives up, even if he thinks he's going to die. When VM was throwing out an Avada Kedavra, Harry faced him, knowing the spell he (Harry) would use wasn't enough. That seems pretty solid nerve in battle for a 15-year old. And conjuring a patronus powerful enough to drive off a horde of dementors seems a bit better than mid-level.

I think that Harry will be more focused going forward (with the prophecy weighing heavily), and that's going to make a big difference. I believe he's very powerful, just doesn't know it yet.

On point #1, JKR actually fed us the answer through Dumbledore when he was talking about Lord Voldemort's past... after he graduated from Hogwarts. Riddle sank so deeply into the dark arts, became so obsessed with immortality, underwent so many dangerous transformations, and changed so much that virtually no one recognized him when he re-emerged as Lord Voldemort. I think it's safe to assume that one of those "transformations" is the culprit for why he lived. Based on this logic, would Harry sink into the dark arts merely to gain immortality? Would he deliberately set himself on that path? The answer is no. He's taken himself off it permanently through his choices, and continues to do so.

As for your third point, I believe that those character traits are where the magical powers spring from. The stronger the trait, the stronger your ability to perform associated spells/charms. Why is it that Hermione is not an excellent broom flyer? She has excellent skills when it comes to test taking. It's because she does not have confidence in her ability to do so. Resolve is ALSO a character trait, and it strengthens Harry's spells- just as it strengthen's Voldemort's. And you can't feel uncertain AND have a solid nerve in battle- the two contradict one another. One strengthens confidence, the other does not. And we've seen Harry doubt himself more than once in battle, until his resolve kicks in.

You have to understand that Voldemort has been planning to rule the world since he was a teenager, so he started to learn the Dark Arts and how to duel early on.
Harry is only 16 years old, he's been in the wizarding world for only 5 years, and remember, he's young, of course he doesn't like to study! You can't blame him for not knowing more.
I'm sure that he will be practicing hard from now on, and I'm sure he'll get help from an adult.

McKinnon02 What you have to remember is that Harry has 'powers the Dark Lord knows not', and by using those powers Harry will vanquish Voldemort.
As DD said at the end of OotP: it didn't matter that Harry didn't know how to duel or posses people, what saved him is his heart.

Yes, I CAN blame him for not knowing more. If the most evil dark wizard in a century was out to kill me, I'd be buried up to my ears in books in the library, trying to find something that would help me stop that from happening! I can blame him for not doing what Dumbledore told him to do, which was learn Occlumency. He was told over and over and over that it was critically important, and yet he let things like Quidditch and Malfoy come first, and Snape get on his nerves. Studying harder at this point will do him no good, because he's virtually out of time.

What I don't understand is why nobody has thought that maybe Voldemort might have given Harry the "power" the prophecy is talking about. And the outcome of the HP books is not certain.

"As DD said at the end of OotP: it didn't matter that Harry didn't know how to duel or posses people, what saved him is his heart."

Maybe. Or perhaps this is just something Dumbledore wants Harry to believe. We don't actually know what caused Voldemort to leave Harry's body at that point in time. It seemed he was in complete and total control of Harry, who was already overcome with emotion about Sirius.

HedwigOwl

September 30th, 2004, 5:16 am

On point #1, JKR actually fed us the answer through Dumbledore when he was talking about Lord Voldemort's past... after he graduated from Hogwarts. Riddle sank so deeply into the dark arts, became so obsessed with immortality, underwent so many dangerous transformations, and changed so much that virtually no one recognized him when he re-emerged as Lord Voldemort. I think it's safe to assume that one of those "transformations" is the culprit for why he lived. Based on this logic, would Harry sink into the dark arts merely to gain immortality? Would he deliberately set himself on that path? The answer is no. He's taken himself off it permanently through his choices, and continues to do so.

As for your third point, I believe that those character traits are where the magical powers spring from. The stronger the trait, the stronger your ability to perform associated spells/charms. Why is it that Hermione is not an excellent broom flyer? She has excellent skills when it comes to test taking. It's because she does not have confidence in her ability to do so. Resolve is ALSO a character trait, and it strengthens Harry's spells- just as it strengthen's Voldemort's. And you can't feel uncertain AND have a solid nerve in battle- the two contradict one another. One strengthens confidence, the other does not. And we've seen Harry doubt himself more than once in battle, until his resolve kicks in.

Well, I still see it differently. Yes, Harry won't do dark arts, but I view that as a choice on how to use power, not the power itself. Harry is a parselmouth, same as VM, but doesn't use it to hurt anyone like VM does. The power is the same, the choice is different. So there may be other powers he got from VM, but he'll just use them differently.

And I still disagree on point 3....the uncertainty is related to Harry's youth and inexperience, not his nerve. For example, in GoF, both Karkaroff and Snape are clearly affected when the mark on their arms returns....but Karkaroff flees in the face of uncertainty, and Snape stays. The fate for both is uncertain, but Snape has nerve.

nano

September 30th, 2004, 5:39 pm

Ralen

October 1st, 2004, 5:57 pm

Well actually it might not be safe to assume that - after all the prophecy says either must die by the hand of the other - So far we assume, that what hit Voldy and rid him of his powers was a rebound AK-Curse he threw at Harry. As it wasn't Harry throwing the curse, but Voldemort himself, he would not have died, by the hand of the other in that case, but by hís own hand, which would not fit in with the prophecy!

My thoughts exactly!

This probably belongs in another thread but after knowing about the prophecy, I assumed that both Voldemort and Harry didn't die at the time just because it had been preordained that one could only die at the hand of the other and that this would not happen until they were both "equal" as such.

Yes, I CAN blame him for not knowing more. If the most evil dark wizard in a century was out to kill me, I'd be buried up to my ears in books in the library, trying to find something that would help me stop that from happening! I can blame him for not doing what Dumbledore told him to do, which was learn Occlumency. He was told over and over and over that it was critically important, and yet he let things like Quidditch and Malfoy come first, and Snape get on his nerves. Studying harder at this point will do him no good, because he's virtually out of time.

Yes but if you remember, in OoTP he was really very angry at a whole lot of things and rightfully so. If the greatest Dark Wizard of all time was after you you'd want to know exactly what was going on but Dumbledore left him in the complete dark. On top of that, he had Umbridge to deal with, he was kicked off Quidditch his favourite past-time, and no-one believed him about Voldemort's return and Cedric's death. So all of that, plus being told to spend some extra time with the teacher you hate most will distract anyone from learning Occlumency. It would be rather difficult to completely clear your mind before a lesson so I don't think it's reasonable to blame Harry for not learning Occlumency despite being told to do so. Besides, Snape was not exactly being very helpful was he?

I don't believe Harry was fully aware that Voldemort was after him until the end of GoF. So the fact that he wasn't buried in books doesn't say anything.
That he was in the DA and teaching it, shows that he is willing to learn for himself and others the necessary defences against the dark arts.

nano

November 3rd, 2004, 9:02 pm

Whilst on the Chapters thread - I had the following thought.

Why did JKR tell us the names of chapter 2, 6 & 14??? Why those specifically??? Could it be, that the numbers of the chapters are as much of a clue as the actualnames themselves?

We ask ourselves, what Harry discovers in Book 2 that foreshadows what he will find out more about in Book 6 - Could this discovery actually be hiddenin CoS chapter 14 (Cornelius Fudge)???

Could this be it? Is there anything 'major' in that chapter, that isn't explained further and throws up any questions? Does he discover anything at all in that chapter??? I know she said, she has taken all traces of the Story that was first to be in CoS out, but is there perhaps still a hint left in that chapter???

I will reread that chapter tonight, and see, if I can find anything. To me it seems like just the thing JKR would do - Not only give us three chapternames of the new Book, but also hide a clue in the 'goodies' themselves.

nano

Xaphania

November 3rd, 2004, 9:26 pm

wow nano, i think thats a really good idea. i havt got a copy of books 1, 2 or 3 (*GASP*) so i cant re-read that chapter but it sounds quite interesting and it is something that j.k.r would do! very interesting

Pox Voldius

November 3rd, 2004, 9:38 pm

probably not the discovery, but...

another discovery in CoS is what happens when you use cat hair instead of human hair in a polyjuice potion...wonder what would happen if you used part of a snake? ;)

OccultPotato

November 3rd, 2004, 10:49 pm

I suggested way back when that Harry's DIscovery could've been Hagrid's strange behavior when they went to visit him late that one night, which happens in chapter 14 of course. I also heard a really good theory on what his discovery was.. i can't remember what it is though... i believe i read it on one of the more recent articles on Mugglenet in the past week. I think. Anyway, i'll look into it... or someone else could if they want to....

~George ^^

EDIT: Someone on the SPOILERS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince v.5 said that they think it could be GG's sword and that it could have contained GG's wand (like Hagrid and his umbrella). It could be a possibility and it has nothing to do with the CoS plot, but wouldn't it be rather difficult to do complex wand movements with a long hefty sword? what are your thoughts?

nano

November 4th, 2004, 4:38 pm

Just imagine giving your sword a 'swish & flick' ... LoL - I can just see it before me ... oops, sorry,that was YOUR leg??? Here you can have it back now ... :rotfl:

What exactly about his strange behaviour Potato?

OccultPotato

November 5th, 2004, 3:50 pm

Hagrid answered the door armed with a crossbow, like he was expecting something bad to knock... it made me wonder why he would act so strange...

george ^_^

sealjoy

November 5th, 2004, 5:41 pm

I will state that I tend to agree that the discovery has to do with the sword of Gryffindor. J.K. has left so many hint about Harry's lineage, as well as the circumstance of his birth, and she mentioned we will find more out about Voldemort's birth. I think it could come down to the two heirs battleing it out. But they cannot kill eachother outright with a curse, they have to do it some specific way that we don't know yet. Makes me think... JK did say a question to be asked is why didn't Voldemort die when he tried to kill harry? He later said he did something to keep that from happening. Could it be a Slytherin thing that kept him a live enought to battle the hier of Gryffindor?

StephyJ_83

November 5th, 2004, 11:19 pm

nano

November 6th, 2004, 2:34 pm

I've often thought about GG's sword . . . I am wondering if it is something that DD had before Harry pulled it out of the hat? It is mentioned again in GoF and OotP as being in a glass case in DD's office. Could it have more meaning that we don't know about? We also know that GG's hat became the Sorting Hat . . . a lot of connections there . . .:huh:We also know thanks to what Jo said in an interview,that there is a connection between Godric Gryffindor and Godric's Hollow ...

That to me does implicate him being GG's heir, but is that what she took out of CoS - Harry finding out his ancestry???

nano

grammer

November 7th, 2004, 4:10 am

In Chamber, Harry "discovered" that LV is really Tom Riddle. I think that knowing about Tom and his "real" background (ie muggle father) may have a huge impact on LV's followers. Remember, Bellatrix refused to believe Harry when he told her about LV's history. Part of LV's power comes from the fear that people have of him. They are AFRAID to say his name, and it isn't even really his name.

atherella

November 8th, 2004, 2:14 pm

I posted this back in the last version of this thread, but will repost it, since discussion seems to be creeping up again.

As to the discovery, while considering JKR's wording of 'a discovery Harry makes that foreshadows...' -- to me, I can't help but think it is either a discovery Harry made about himself, or it's a piece of knowledge he gained, rather than an actual object. (ie - self discovery). That could very well be way off, but it's just what I automatically thought when I first read that quote.

The more I think about this discovery, the more I feel confident that this is some form of self discovery. I could be way off, but I definitely think that is on the right track.

I also think the discovery could be referring to the fact that LV transferred some of his powers to Harry. Supposedly LV transferred powers, which is plural. So far, we only know of parseltounge, so I'd assume there's more. Also, the prophecy states that LV will mark him as his equal. While the exact meaning of that is up in the air, it's plausabile to think it might mean that he transferred enough power to Harry to make him his equal. Since the final confrontational will be with Harry at the age of 17, he's definitely going to have to become much more powerful than he is. JKR has also stated in interviews that Harry will become more powerful. Taking all that into account, I think the powers that LV transferred to Harry are the discovery he makes. Harry will begin to recognize these powers and learn how to use them and strengthen his skills.

starutena

November 8th, 2004, 8:33 pm

I like to think that the discovery has to do with Lily's magic- specifically the counter-curse she used to save Harry. Even though we haven't had definitions for spell, curse, or jinx- there seems to be a sizable difference between the three categories. I think that difference is crucial. Curse vs spell, JKR would leave it up to the details.

Pumpkin Juice

November 8th, 2004, 8:51 pm

My best guess is that it refers to his discovery that the sword he pulled out of the sorting hat had Godric Gryffindor's name on it and Dumbledore told him that only a true Gryffindor could pull that out of the hat. Yup, that's what I think. :agree:

Zora Lupin

November 8th, 2004, 9:00 pm

What if it has something to do with Ginny. Of course, we know she is the only Weasley girl to have been born in ages. Why would Voldemort want her though???

Pumpkin Juice

November 8th, 2004, 9:03 pm

What if it has something to do with Ginny. Of course, we know she is the only Weasley girl to have been born in ages. Why would Voldemort want her though???
Yeah, but what did Harry learn about Ginny to make it about her?

Zora Lupin

November 8th, 2004, 9:17 pm

OccultPotato

November 8th, 2004, 9:47 pm

It seems to me that it was more Lucius who picked Ginny, not Voldemort. He picked her a) cause she's a Weasley and he hates all of them, and b) because it could hinder Arthur's Muggle Protection Act if it was found out his only girl was killing muggle-borns.

So what's so special about Ginny? I don't know. But I do know that she was a lonely little girl pining for love that could never be. (not that i'm implying any sort of ship.. just from her perspective. I mean.. why would the famous cool Harry Potter love little Ginny Weasley?)

Just my thoughts.

George ^_^

PS: Im actually a HP/GW shipper ^_^ bet i messed you up there unless you caught my sarcasm.

Pumpkin Juice

November 8th, 2004, 10:06 pm

Why does it have to be anything he learned. Where does it say it has to be something he learned about her. I think he could put two and two together-You know?

Hmmm......why would Voldemort choose Ginny? What's special about her?
Sorry, I transposed learning with discovery. He did discover that Ginny had been used. Although that was pretty big and important to the story. I would almost think that his discovery which is relevant to book 6, wasn't quite so relevant to book 2. Discovering it was Ginny who had been taken was pretty significant to the events of book 2.

GodricHollow

November 8th, 2004, 10:11 pm

I don't think she's pining for love from anywhere, the Weasleys actually split their time fairly well, considering they've got 7 kids.

grammer

November 8th, 2004, 10:34 pm

Have we seen ANY OTHER pure blood girl witches that aren't in Syltherin - just asking?

metr0man

November 9th, 2004, 1:46 am

Well, imo the first step (i don't know if this has been done already I haven't seen it but i haven't read ALL the posts) is to make a list of discoveries that Harry made in "Chamber of Secrets."

- Voldemort/Riddle was the heir to Slytherin
- That he [Harry] pulled out the sword of Godric Gryffindor out of the hat (possibly foreshadowing Harry being the heir to Gryffindor)
- Fawkes revelations (he is called because of loyalty to Dumbledore, his tears heal people)
- Ginny likes him
- Salazar Slytherin wanted only pure-bloods while the others wanted full-bloods and this led to Slytherin's departure and the Chamber of Secrets
- Hagrid got Aragog from a mysterious stranger in a faraway land (?? my memory may be faulty on this one)
- Moaning Myrtle was a victim of the first chamber of secrets debacle
- Dumbledore was Voldemort's headmaster
- Harry can speak Parselmouth, some of Voldemorts powers/abilities were transferred to him

Can anyone think of other significant discoveries Harry made in Book 2?

grammer

November 9th, 2004, 2:25 am

myxalie

November 9th, 2004, 3:52 am

Correction, Dumbledore wasn't the headmaster, he was just a professor, probably head of Griffyndor, someone else was headmaster, I can't remember his name... Dippet?

Speaking of other discoveries, there is the existence of house elves, Harry at least didn't know about them before.

Aurelia

November 9th, 2004, 6:00 pm

Discovery? Hmm...

IMHO Harry's Discovery was in Knockturn Alley. That scene was a little useless in CoS, no? And as we know, JK doesn't put useless things in HP. And Harry discovered a few things then.

1. Knockturn Alley. He never been here before. Many people suspect that in chapter 6 of HBP (Draco's Detour) Harry will meet Draco somewhere before the beginning of his 6th year at Hogwarts, and the place that they could meet at summer is Diagon Alley. And Diagon Alley is very close to Knockturn Alley. Something important between Draco and Harry may happen there.

2. The Shop "Borgin & Burkes". Maybie something will happen here, or it will involve Mr. Borgin or Mr. Burkes?

3. The Malfoy Manor. Oooh, I like this. Harry discovers that it exists. And it is interesting. Very interesting. Again I think about chapter six - some people suspect that in that chapter Harry will go to the Malfoy Manor. Think about it - Draco's Detour - Where does Draco Malfoy live? The Malfoy Manor!

Well, i also thought about the 'blood' thing. Harry, in CoS, notices the 'muggleborn vs. pureblood' thing. He hears the word 'mudblood' for the 1st time, and discovers its meaning.

Blood. Harry realises, that a lot of things there are about 'blood' - 'pure' blood, 'mud' blood, 'half' blood... Half-blood? Maybie Half-Blood Prince?

Am I talking with at least a little sense? I'm bad at things like this.

nano

November 10th, 2004, 5:00 pm

Have we seen ANY OTHER pure blood girl witches that aren't in Syltherin - just asking?Which house is that Bones girl - Is her christian name Amelia???

nano

Meghan73211

November 10th, 2004, 5:03 pm

Which house is that Bones girl - Is her christian name Amelia???

nano
I believe she is in Hufflepuff. Her aunt's name was Amelia, her name is Susan.

Selene Sedai

November 11th, 2004, 5:46 am

I'd say the discovery was the Polyjuice Potion. It plays a big part in Cos, and it could be very usefull later on. You can find out a fair amount in one hour as someone else.... you can also get into other houses common rooms.

Or another thing it could be that would make more sence, is the descovery about the four founders of Hogwarts. And perhaps the Half-Blood Prince is one of them... yes, i think that is much more plausible.

Ralen

November 11th, 2004, 2:58 pm

3. The Malfoy Manor. Oooh, I like this. Harry discovers that it exists. And it is interesting. Very interesting. Again I think about chapter six - some people suspect that in that chapter Harry will go to the Malfoy Manor. Think about it - Draco's Detour - Where does Draco Malfoy live? The Malfoy Manor!

Good pick on the Malfoy Manor - I'm not sure if it'e been brought up before in this thread but good to see you raising it again as apparently they have their own secret chamber.

"Yeah. . ." said Malfoy. "Luckily, they didn't find much. Father's got some very valuable Dark Arts stuff. But luckily, we've got our own secret chamber under the drawing-room floor.

I don't have the exact page reference with me sorry. Maybe Harry's knowing of this room, will lead him to find something very valuable in there which could help him somehow?
I'm pretty sure this particular line was mentioned in the movie too.

grammer

November 12th, 2004, 3:12 am

Aurelia: I think you did a fine job of listing Harry's discoveries, don't put yourself down.

Aurelia

November 12th, 2004, 12:26 pm

Aurelia: I think you did a fine job of listing Harry's discoveries, don't put yourself down.
*smiles*

Today I opened CoS on a random page, hoping that I'll find something. It opened on the chapter "The Burrow". The picture on the top showed Weasley's Magical Car (how is it in english? I don't know)...

Wait. *facepalm* Maybe Harry's discovery is the car? JKR said that we'll see it again...

Was it said before?

atherella, nice theory! Maybe it is a self-discovery? Very possible! :tu:

grammer

November 12th, 2004, 1:41 pm

Aurelia:

Weasley's magical car is good - the English translation is the maker and model name (Ford Anglia)

muggledeedee

November 12th, 2004, 2:00 pm

Harry also discovered where the Slytherin's Dormitories are. Could this have any meaning for the HBP?

grammer

November 12th, 2004, 2:29 pm

Harry also discovered where the Slytherin's Dormitories are. Could this have any meaning for the HBP?

I think you mean the Slytherin common room, don't you??

muggledeedee

November 12th, 2004, 11:27 pm

The Dorms, common room, whatever - they are all in the same area, anyway - harry knows where the entrance is and I was just wondering what that discovery could possibly mean for the next book?

nerdypants

November 12th, 2004, 11:45 pm

I personally think it's got something to do with Snape. Don't ask me why... I've got this long, complicated theory, and I don't want to bore you to death.

Alhanalasa

November 13th, 2004, 12:38 am

Aww, go on. Bore us. :eyebrows: I'm always up for a long, complicated Snape theory.

On a completely different note, I have just started rereading CoS, and noticed today at lunch that he makes an awful lot of discoveries at the Burrow, and on the way there, including the garden gnomes (one of my favorite scenes!) and other "everyday" wizarding things. Perhaps it's one of these seemingly minor details that will prove significant in HBP. Of course, I went and left the book at work, so I can't go back and list them all. :grumble:

muggledeedee

November 16th, 2004, 3:33 pm

If any of you have been to the threadSPOILERS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion v.5 you will see that they have on every page a list of all the ideas on that they have come up with to use as reference in discussions (also so things aren't repeated innumerable times). A list like that would be very helpful for this thread. Is anyone willing to take up the challenge?

I would like to start a list of Harry's Discoveries in CoS....two separate lists - one of tangible discoveries and a second for intangible.....I am going to work on this for a little while and then I will post the list of things I have come up with, then as time goes along - poeple can either post new ideas or send me an OWl with ideas to be added.

Does this sound good to everyone?

muggledeedee

November 16th, 2004, 8:31 pm

Here is a starter list of things that Harry discovered in CoS....the word DISCOVERED could mean anything he "discovered", Learned" , was told about or came to a realization about. I searched through the first version of this thread but everythign came back around to the same discoveries. Here is the list. Please post any new ideas to be added to the list or send me an OWL.

DISCOVERIES

1. Voldemort
AKA Tom Riddle
Heir of Slytherin
Father was Muggle (making him half-blood)
Left his memory imprinted on his diary
Parselmouth
Transferred powers inadvertenly to Harry when he tried to kill him

2. Lucius Malfoy
Loyal servant of Voldemort
Selling dark arts supplies
Has something hidden under floor in Malfoy Manor

3. House elves
They exist
The rich or really old families own them
They keep the family secrets (but can also defy them if they hurt or punish
themselves)
They have magic of their own

4. Fawkes
Learns about phoenix & their powers (tears heal, can carry heavy loads, etc.)
Fawkes is loyal to Dumbledore and will help those in need who are
loyal to Dumbledore as well.

5. Sorting Hat
Pulled sword out of hat
Able to provide help when help is asked for?
Can talk other than to sort (talked to Harry in the Chamber, seems to think
for itself)

6. Godric Gryffindor
Sword, summoned by a true Gryyfindor (Harry's ancestor?)

7. Mudblood
First learns what the name means
Shows racism in the wizrading community

8. Hagrid
Discovered Hagrid in Knockturn Alley
Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts
Hagrid did not open chamber
Friend to Aragog

9. Aragog
Lives in the forest witht a huge colony of nasty spiders
Friend to Hagrid
Not the monster killing or petrifying muggle borns

10. Basilisk
Harry can understand it
Learns spiders fear it
To look in it's eyes directly, it will kill you, if you look in it's eyes indirectly
it will petrify you
The fang is poisonous (Also used to kill Tom through the diary)

11. Floo Network
It exists, how to use it
You must speak very clearly or you end up in wrong place

12. Knockturn Alley
Full of Dark Arts shop
Borgin & Burkes

13. Filch
Squib
Taking correspondence course in magic (or thinkign about it at least)

14. Lockhart
Fraud (used other wizard's experiences as his own)
Only good with memory charms

15. Whomping Wilow
Gets first taste of what damage it can do

16. Moaning Myrtle
Victim of Basilisk
Haunts girl's bathroom

17. Mandrakes
Their cry is fatal to anyone who hears it
They are used to restore anyone who has been transigured cursed back to
their original state (including pertification)
The cry of the young mandrake is powerful enough to knock you out

18. Percy
Sees Percy reading a book in a junk shop in Diagon Alley titled "Prefects
who Gained Power"
Learns Percy wants to become Mister of Magic someday

19. Parseltongue
Harry learns that it is not a very common trait, he can speak it, so did
Voldemort. (One of the powers probably transferred from Voldemort)

20. Choices
Choices matter - Harry belonged in Gryffindor because he chose it.

This is just to start, we can begin to weed out what me may feel is completely off-the-wall, or doesn't seem to have any releveance to the HBP and make a separate list that categorizes the good possibilites and those we have weeded out as unimportant or unlikely.

myxalie

November 17th, 2004, 9:19 am

there was also the polyjuice discovery, as mentioned above, but i dont think that is going to have a major effect on book 6. I think if the polyjuice in CoS foreshadowed anything it was GoF with fake-Moody, because that was a major part of his storyline. I dont think she would use it again in a major way because it has been played out.

i dont have the book to check, but were there any other properties of mandrake root that were mentioned in CoS besides the obvious fatal screaming and reviving petrified people? kind of random, I know

gingerbookworm

November 17th, 2004, 10:33 am

I think it could have something to do with the Malfoys hidden, underground room. Although as you've all shown it could be quite a lot of things.

samoht

November 17th, 2004, 2:20 pm

Don't we love obscure hints?! :love: ;)

Soo, let's contemplate what JKR could be referring to. Please note that JKR said that the discovery Harry made was in Chamber (ie the book), NOT the Chamber (ie the cavern beneath Hogwarts). Could it have something to do with Muggle-borns and half-bloods? Or Fawkes and Gryffindor's sword?

I rather think that it has something to do with the fact that Harry speaks snake. :huh:

gingerbookworm

November 17th, 2004, 4:03 pm

I've been thinking that Harry discovered the Sorting hat had more than just sorting abilities. I think it will come in more usefull later on in the books. What will it reveal to Harry and what else can it do? :huh:

Delving

November 17th, 2004, 4:17 pm

There's one other discovery that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread (if it has, I'm sorry), and that is that you shouldn't trust something that can think for itself unless you can see where it keeps its brain. Does this tell us something about the Maurauder's Map, or something else that will come into Harry's possession in HBP?

BeNice2Aragog

November 18th, 2004, 6:30 am

Whoa! Nice list muggledeedee. But let's remember that this is Divination Studies and the real key is what the discovery foreshadows.

I didn't look at the first thread, but here are some of the foreshadowing theories related to your list of discoveries...

1. Voldemort
(Xfer of Powers) Harry will discover more powers or develop the powers transferred to him.
(Diary Memory) Harry will discover the means to "obliviate" Voldmort by erasing memories of him
(Half-blood) Serious problems develop between the DEs and Voldemort

2. Lucius Malfoy
Someone will exploit the Dark objects under the drawing room floor

4. Fawkes' Loyalty
Harry discovers how loyalty can create strong magical bonds

5. Sorting Hat
Harry will turn to the hat to get what is needed in times of great difficulty

6. Godric Gryffindor Sword
There will be a duel with real weapons, not wands.
The sword will be used to "vanquish Lord Voldemort" as it did the basilisk
Harry discovers he is the heir to Gryffindor

7. Mudbloods
Harry's discovery of bloodlines will lead him to learn more of his ancestry.
Harry discovers he is the heir to Gryffindor

10. Basilisk Fang
Harry will kill Voldemort in the end by turning Riddle's own weapon back against him

13. Filch
Filch finally gets his magical powers

20. Choices
HBP will deal with the choices the HBP makes.
Harry will realise that the prophecy doesn't have to be completely true even though it was foreseen by a true Seer.

atherella

November 21st, 2004, 4:16 pm

The list should also include self discoveries Harry made. I posted my argument already for that in both this version of the thread and the last. :)

Ralen

November 22nd, 2004, 12:24 pm

Good job on taking the task of creating a list muggledeedee :tu: :tu:

I hate to be pessimistic here but the problem is that as it is only Harry's second year in the wizarding world, he just about learns/discovers something new with every turn he takes in the book. Therefore we could just about mention every single little thing that is mentioned in the book which means it would be a very long list indeed - as if it isn't already!

I think BeNice2Aragog has got the right idea by suggesting that the attached theories to what Harry's discovers should be listed, and not just the discovery itself. Admittedly a lot of the theories will be fanfic-ish, and many won't have sufficient support from canon but I'd like to see the arguments for and against each discovery anyway.

As far as I'm concerned though, whatever he discovered in the book was also shown in the movie. Unfortunately for us the movie is relatively faithful to the book but I think this is one possible way for us to eliminate some things. Although I'm not convinced about this strategy either as I'm sure script writers can get around these sort of dilemmas.

The fact that it "foreshadows" something in book 6 makes me intuitively think that it's an intangible discovery and what stands out to me most is "choice" still. Like the choice not to let his life be determined by what's been prophecised maybe.

grammer

November 22nd, 2004, 12:41 pm

Maybe it's just another red Herring by JKR? There are nothing but discoveries in CoS - so it was a pretty safe "answer" for her to give to a question.

TashiGrumblewig

November 22nd, 2004, 3:42 pm

I think Ralen is right in saying that we do need some pro and con on the discoveries because that may help us thin the list.

I also think BeNice2Aragog has a point, that what the discovery foreshadows is most important, not just the discovery itself. Some discoveries may be irrelevant to the HBP storyline, such as the fact that Aragog wasn't killing/petrifying muggleborns and, that Moaning Myrtle was killed by the basilisk, which were only relevant to CoS. Lockheart I believe should be removed from the list, as his importance has been played out, and we are not expected to view him in future books with anything more than a wink and a nod, IMO.

I also agree that the discoveries found in the book would also be in the movie, as I think I remember Jk said something like, even people who only saw the movies would be able to figure it out, and wouldn't be left behind without the basic relevant information ( I don't remember where I read, or saw it, but until it can be backed, it isn't canon, so if anyone has it from the top of their head, please let me know where to find it, thanks.), so that would help in thinning out the list as well.

Something that we might consider, if we agree to use the movie as an aid, is that scenes that were changed in the movie, that still have a base in canon (such as "Movie Hagrid" being the one to explain mudblood instead of "Canon Ron", possibly giving it more weight because it's explained by an adult), should be looked at, as there is likely a good reason for the change in presentation of the message.

I am not an advocate of using anything in the movie as canon, though. I just think that by using what we know as canon against what differences we see in the movie, we may be able to come up with fewer and more specific discoveries.
But we should also make sure that everything that is in canon, that is verbatim in the movie (such as DD explaining the power of ones choices), should take priority (using the movie as backup, only) , as it's entirely canon (meaning supported by both book and movie), and therefore, could help to thin the list, as well.

I also agree though, that the choices one makes is the discovery that JK is speaking of.

chelsea90

January 11th, 2005, 3:56 am

He discovered:
-where the Malfoys hide their dark art stuff.***
-where the Slytherine common room is.***
-how to use the diary.
-Aragog (Hagrids Spider).***
-where the CoS is hiden.
-How Mertle died.***
-Knockturn Alley.
-What a Mudblood Is.
-They would have to take new courses the next year.
-Gryfindor's sword.***
-what a Basalisk was.
-how to make a Polyjuice Potion.
-about Fawks.
-about House-elves
-what a parselmouth was
-That Ginny liked him.***
-Hagrid Was framed.
-Riddle is Slytherin's last heir.
-Riddle is Voldemort.
-Filitch is a squib.***
-Percy had a girlfriend.
-What the Spiders are scared of.
-what animal can kill a Basalisk.
-When Nearly headless Nick died.
-What a deathday party was.
-What Pixies are.
-The Whomping willow.***
-the Floo Network.
-Mandrakes and their uses.
-the importance of choices.***
-usefulness of the sorting hat.

Thats all for now I'll edit this when i remember more
*** indicated things JKR hinted would be in further books
Who knows it will probably be something realy random though.

Katy Kedevra

January 11th, 2005, 4:42 am

-Ron's afraid of spiders... okay, that was a joke.

It's been a little while since I've picked up the second book, so excuse me if I mixed something up. Anyway, here are a few less noticeable things:
-Albus Dumbledore used to be Transfiguration teacher
-first time seeing Cornelius Fudge
-previous headmasters of Hogwarts
-info on the four founders
-Snape's storage is the only place to get certain potion ingredients

This is all just basic stuff and would probably have to be looked at in greater detail to determine whether or not it has any significance.

TashiGrumblewig

January 11th, 2005, 10:34 am

He also learns where the Burrow is, and that there are many ways for wizards to travel, such as floo network and illegal magical modification of muggle objects.
He learns that Mr. Weasley works in the misuse of muggle artifacts department at the ministry, and what a raid is.
The Weasley clock.
He learns of the hand of glory, and that the Malfoy's have alot of dark arts objects.
All of the things that are attributed to Lockheart, in his books, were done by other witches and wizards, which is very interesting.
That Hagrid knew about the basalisk, from Aragog, for a very long time, which means that DD knew also, but evidently never asked ghosty Myrtle any particulars of her death.
DD knew it was TR that set the basalisk free the first time.
He and TR are very similar.
Choices make us who and what we are, and that he chose to be good by asking not to be put in Slytherin.
Some of these Harry learned, but isn't aware of the importance of them yet.

Nephel

January 11th, 2005, 10:47 am

A charm exists to cure werewolves?

The Homorphus charm; or so Lockhart says..

jenny_d_b

January 11th, 2005, 2:43 pm

Harry didn't exactly find out that he could speak parseltoungue in CoS, he did it in the first book aswell. I don't think it has anything to do with that.

Some things I think she may mean:

When Dumbledore was sent away from the school, that shows Harry that Dumbledore can be controlled. He may not always be there, even if Harry need him. (This is not the thing I think it is, but maybe something familiar to it.)

Ginny was posessed by Voldemort, she attacked people and could have killed off her friends - she wasn't aware of what she was doing. Innocent people are used to fit Voldemorts needs. Somehow explaining that someone could get posessed and do a lot of bad things to their nearest and dearest. (Haven't I heard "nearest and dearest" mentioned in the same sentence as HBP before?) Maybe Harry. Voldemort was almost posessing Harry in book 5, he could do it, at least if he gets stronger.

Also, Harry discovered that sometimes, people aren't interested in finding the truth, as long as what the others believe fits you perfectly well. (Riddle's diary, when Hagrid was accused)

Maybe Hogwarts isn't that safe after all... (That showed in the third book aswell)

But tashi, Aragog hadn't told Hagrid about the basilisk. He said that he "had never even told Hagrid, even if he had asked him many times" or something like that. I don't think even Dumbledore knew. He was suspicious to TR, but I don't think he knew what was in the Chamber.

Corbin Dallas

January 11th, 2005, 2:43 pm

laprincesamestiza

January 11th, 2005, 3:39 pm

Couple of random observations:

Harry discovered he could communicate with snakes but he didn't realise he was speaking another language when he did it

Ron said he was going to tell Arthur to look under the Malfoy's drawing room after his discussion in the Slytherin common room, given that Arthur's desperately looking for anything he can get on Lucius, and three years have passed since that conversation, can't assume that the MoM have uncovered whatever's there?

Katy Kedevra

January 11th, 2005, 4:11 pm

Harry didn't exactly find out that he could speak parseltoungue in CoS, he did it in the first book aswell. I don't think it has anything to do with that.
Yes, but the realization of what it was that let him do it was in the second book. I donèt know whether or not I believe that this is it though.

TashiGrumblewig

January 11th, 2005, 8:35 pm

But tashi, Aragog hadn't told Hagrid about the basilisk. He said that he "had never even told Hagrid, even if he had asked him many times" or something like that. I don't think even Dumbledore knew. He was suspicious to TR, but I don't think he knew what was in the Chamber.
My original post stated: "That Hagrid knew about the basilisk, from Aragog, for a very long time, which means that DD knew also, but evidently never asked ghosty Myrtle any particulars of her death. (this part was dry humor)
DD knew it was TR that set the basilisk free the first time."

Therefore:
The question wasn't who opened the chamber, it was how the chamber was opened in CoS, therefore DD knew who it was, just not how TR was doing it this time.

As for Aragog not telling Hagrid directly that a basilisk was in the chamber, it only says that Aragog never told him the name of the creature, though he asked many times.
I believe that DD knew about the basilisk before the trio found out in CoS (Hermione had deduced it without Aragog's information as well, being that when Harry spoke to Aragog, Hermione was petrified).

That's how I read it, anyway. Maybe I read too deeply into something that isn't there or I inferred alot, but Hagrid opened the door to his hut with a crossbow expecting "someone" (TR, not LV, I believe).

DD knew that it was TR who opened the chamber the first time, and so did Hagrid, IMO, just maybe not by the same sources and available information, (as DD had greater access to information on TR), and they knew it was TR who had opened it the second time as well.

So, even though Aragog never told Hagrid the name of the creature, he told him the particulars of the creature (as he did with Harry), which would allow anyone with the important information to research great, monstrous beasts (which also happen to be a hobby of Hagrids), and I think that Hagrid told DD what he knew to clear his name with DD because he respects him above all others, and didn't want to let DD think he, or Aragog, was responsible for Myrtle's death (or DD used occlumency, but same end result). Betwixt them both, you see, DD could deduce this as easily as Hermione, I would think. IMO.

Just observations, doesn't mean that they are THE discovery.

melusinafairy

January 12th, 2005, 12:07 am

The situation in which harry draws the sword of Godric Gryffindor from the sorting hat will foreshadow the fact that Harry is the heir to Gryffindor. This is my two cents... hope it helps :)

i think the thing he discovers in CoS has to be in the chamber...

HedwigOwl

January 12th, 2005, 4:52 am

Only a true Gryffindor could pull Gryffindor's sword from Gryffindor's old hat, and ironically the sword was used to kill the Monster of Slytherin that was in the Chamber Slytherin built and opened and Controlled by Slytherin's True heir who just happens to be in a Prophecy with Harry and that they must eventually fight and either one or both will die. Some amazing coincidences concerning the "True" Gryffindor idea...

Nicely done, that makes sense. I've always thought that DD's "our choices make us who we are" speech is important also, but the more I think about the way you explain your reasoning, it makes me think you're correct.

Minipixi

January 15th, 2005, 1:16 pm

First of all the list was a very good idea. I've read way too many double theories.

One thing I haven't read though, concerns Hagrid and Tom Riddle. Harry discovers that Hagrid was at school with Tom Riddle. They even knew each others name (even though Tom was a few years above Hagrid). Ofcourse Tom changed so much after he left school, that Hagrid probably didn't recognise him when he reappeard as Voldemort. I don't think Dumbledore told Hagrid that voldemort was tom riddle; after all, dumbledore mentioned that "not many people know that voldemort used to be called tom riddle"; and Hagrid tends to be kept out of the loop on most things. But even though hagrid doesn't recognise Voldemort as Tom; I bet you anything Voldemort WOULD recognise Hagrid (Hagrid wasn't exactly hard to miss at school; nor is he now).

So could this foreshadow something that will happen in the next book(s)? Could Hagrid know something important about Voldemort, without knowing it? Or would Voldemort use Hagrid to get at Harry (after all, he's done it before)?

xharrypotterx

February 17th, 2005, 1:26 pm

Great post muggledeedee! I have been trying to do one with links for ages, but my computer is absolutely horrible. :)

1. Voldemort
Volemort. First thoughts are that he is already insanely important throughout the series so placing even more emphasis on him seems kind of redundant. The biggest things we learn about him in this book, in my mind, were that he was a half-blood (through his name and what-not) and that he transferred his powers to Harry that night at Godric's Hollow. The importance of his blood line, for me at least, comes to a head in the fact that the Death Eaters do not know that he is a half-blood. When Beatrix was so shocked to hear of this news in OotP, I was as shocked as she was. The best way to fit this into the story line that I can think of is something to the effect of a DE mutiny within the ranks of Voldemort's armies, the extremists (if there is one more so than Voldemort) that do not want to have a half-blood leading them. The transferring of Voldemort's powers to Harry that night at Godric's Hollow is critical to the plot line of the books. Without it, Harry and Lord Voldemort's characters become to impersonal. There would be nothing connecting them as does the connection. The possibility of this as the discovery is very real. Crucial plot line developments = crucial discoveries.

2. Lucius Malfoy
Sure, Lucius Malfoy was discovered by Harry and the trio as an evil character, but it was not until the fourth book that we have concrete evidence of Malfoy's involvement. Before that, it is mearly speculation based on his selling of Dark Arts trinkets in Knockturn Alley and just the knowledge of how rude and mean young Malfoy is. There is no concrete evidence before the fourth book that officially ties the Malfoy family and the Dark Lord.
The fact that he has some what of a cellar under the floor in the Malfoy Manor is somewhat intriguing (sp?) to me. What could he possibly have in there? What else once belonged to Lord Voldemort and could now be returned to him?

4. Fawkes and Godric Gryffindor
Could Fawkes' lime-light have already passed? He has saved Harry's life by the end of CoS, and in OotP he sacrifices himself to block the Avada Kedavra for Dumbledore. No, I think that Fawkes is doomed to fall into the shadows along with Buckbeak...unless the theory that Godric Gryffindor is actually an anamagus (who turns into a phoenix) and can there for live forever. This being said, Gryffindor could possibly be an ancestor of Harry's (as I believe) which would make Fawkes' role in the upcoming book extraordinary.

5. Mudblood (and Filch being a squib)
This ones huge. The vying for racial (in this case a blood rase) pretty much the core of the Harry Potter series. It is not until CoS that the reason's behind Voldemort's treachery really hit home when Malfoy calls Hermione a "mudblood." Huge. The implications of this race war front coming to a focal point may have already passed and have been put on some form of a back burner. How much more will this come into play?

6. Hagrid
Discovered Hagrid in Knockturn Alley: This along with the fact that he was "expecting" someone at his Cabbin the night that Fudge came to his door with his Azkaban papers has massive implications. Who could he possibly have been expecting? Certainly not Fudge. And it could not be something as idiotic as the Basilisk. What would have Hagrid so scared when he opened the door as to merit a crossbow? Something big is brewing here...thats for sure.
Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts: we figured that out in the first book...we just never knew why.
Friend to Aragog: If Aragog comes back, Hagrid will be there.

7. Aragog
JKR did say that we will see Aragog again, although I'm not sure how this could come into play.

8. Basilisk
I believe he is a one book creature...nothing more.

9. Choices
Choices matter. This theme is absolutely staggering in this book. Choices determined what path Lord Voldemort would take. Choices showed Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore in the Chamber of Secrets. This is another very real possibility.

As for the others (Mandrakes, the Basilisks, Gilderoy and the rest) I do not see them coming into any sort of real relavance in the upcoming book...at all.

profmcgonagal

February 17th, 2005, 7:15 pm

could the question be linked to the fact that a body was never found....that maybe Harry has already gone back to the past in book 7 and gotten ride of the evidence...cause he was never really there.....maybe the site of the tragedy...was that Hagrid was there, Sirius was there...maybe a DE got there too? So if it rebounded from Harry...where did Voldy go? There had to be a body..or evidence..he became ether...the body is or was taken on by Harry?....

Fawkesified

February 17th, 2005, 7:23 pm

Could the discovery possibly be that Voldemort can posess people? I know it's pathetic but hey...

Flo

February 17th, 2005, 8:46 pm

Another thing that Harry discovered in CoS was that Lucius Malfoy seemed to be one of the few people who knew about Voldemort's true (or former) identity, while the other Death Eaters did not.

xharrypotterx

February 24th, 2005, 3:10 am

I was looking through the previous thread, and I noticed a posted theory by OccultPotato. It has to do with what Hagrid was doing in Chamber of Secrets when he answered his door with his cross-bow. OccultPotato's theory is quoted here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1298049&postcount=426) along with my response. I noticed that it wasn't on muggledeedee's comprehensive post of all of the theories.

Again the post is located here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1298049&postcount=426).

Derf2005

February 24th, 2005, 3:57 am

Ah, Well.. I'd have to say Harry discovering there's a connection between him and Voldemort...

Kopannie

February 24th, 2005, 4:32 am

Could the discovery possibly be that Voldemort can posess people? I know it's pathetic but hey...

Good idea, but I definitly think it is something more then that. While news to Harry, Voldy's control of other people through posesion and the UF curse was definitly well known.

I am rereading CoS right now, and I'll throw something really simple out.... (and also pathetic) (we all know Jk loves to trick us) Harry discovered what Mr.Weasly does, as well and what life in a wizarding house is really like.

WoodenCoyote

February 24th, 2005, 4:40 am

A charm exists to cure werewolves?

The Homorphus charm; or so Lockhart says..
There's a theory that Lily tried to use it to cure Remus [ which would be what he meant when he said she'd done him a great kindness in the PoA movie. JK said the scenes Cuaron added hinted to upcoming books ]
Maybe that's what Harry discovers

Mayden

February 24th, 2005, 4:42 am

I do remember JK saying somthing about "The choice between what's easy and what's right will be the piller of the plot in the next two books"

'It is our choices that make us who we are, far more then out abillilities, Harry.' (well, that's not excectly what he siad, but somthing like that)

Allemande

February 24th, 2005, 5:32 am

one thing that just struck me as odd is how Tom Riddle says in CoS "Voldemort is my past, present and future."
well I get the present thing, b/c by then, he was obviously already evil, and I get the future thing, because the future is when he becomes Voldemort, but I don't get why he says the thing about the past...unless he's talking about some type of time travel thingie, which woudln't surprise me, because for some reason I have a feeling time travel is going to come back in some way in HBP

xharrypotterx

March 1st, 2005, 4:03 am

More thoughts on Hagrid's crossbow/door answer:

Well, there doesn't have to nescessarily be a connection with Hagrid and Voldemort, Hagrid could have been expecting something that deals with some one other than Voldemort. It can not be denied that Hagrid has many shady dealings in and out of Hogsmeade's bars, and that he has many connections with Black market dealings. Throughout each of the books, Hagrid has some sort of black market connections, or underground dealings.
Book One: Dragon Egg from Hogs Head
Book Two: We discover Aragog. An Acromantula at thirteen? C'mon.
Book Three: Hippogriffs aren't exactly the same as a pet dog are they?
Book Four: Breeding the Blast-Ended Skrewts, illegal and shady
Book Five: The Theastrals. Same as the Hippogriffs...

True, all of these are magical beasts, and they don't seem to be anything of some sort of criminal activity, but they all were obtained in under-the-table, black market situations. The thing that I can't figure out with this end of the theory, is what on Earth could Hagrid of done to merit him answering his door armed with a crossbow?

As for any sort of connections with Voldemort, if you go beyond the initial reaction of "NO!", then you can see that they could be there. Voldemort needs to have spys inside Dumbledore's operations, what better spy than the lovable Hagrid? All Voldemort would have to do is tell Hagrid that he would be able to see his mother or father again, and that would be all it would take. Even though Hagrid said that his father died when he was young, and he said that his mother was killed some time ago, you can never take a character's (especially Hagrid's) word for it. Voldemort even taunted Harry with the possibility of seeing his mother and father again if he joined him and gave him the Sorceror's Stone.

As much as I hate to even think about the possibility of a Hagrid turned spy, I can't think of too many other plausible scenarios as to what would posses Hagrid to answer the door that night armed with a crossbow.

meesha1971

May 24th, 2005, 2:47 am

There's a theory that Lily tried to use it to cure Remus [ which would be what he meant when he said she'd done him a great kindness in the PoA movie. JK said the scenes Cuaron added hinted to upcoming books ]
Maybe that's what Harry discovers

I wondered about the Homorphous Charm that Lockhart mentioned as well. If a cure for being a werewolf existed then why didn't Lupin use it? However, Lupin tells Harry that there is NO cure for being a werewolf and the potion he takes now that keeps him "harmless" during his transformations is a recent discovery. My thought is that the Homorphous Charm is a temporary fix - so to speak. By using that charm you find out who the werewolf is - thereby the village and the man who is the werewolf can take precautions, such as the potion Lupin uses. That's my thought anyway.

WoodenCoyote

May 24th, 2005, 2:52 am

I wondered about the Homorphous Charm that Lockhart mentioned as well. If a cure for being a werewolf existed then why didn't Lupin use it? However, Lupin tells Harry that there is NO cure for being a werewolf and the potion he takes now that keeps him "harmless" during his transformations is a recent discovery. My thought is that the Homorphous Charm is a temporary fix - so to speak. By using that charm you find out who the werewolf is - thereby the village and the man who is the werewolf can take precautions, such as the potion Lupin uses. That's my thought anyway.
But the warlock who knew the charm was in Armenia, and Lockhart erased his memory. It could be a cure that Remus doesn't know about because its never been heard of in the UK until Lockhart, and doesn't exist anymore because the only man who really knew it has his mind wiped.
I like your idea that its a temporary fix though.

meesha1971

May 24th, 2005, 3:06 am

But the warlock who knew the charm was in Armenia, and Lockhart erased his memory. It could be a cure that Remus doesn't know about because its never been heard of in the UK until Lockhart, and doesn't exist anymore because the only man who really knew it has his mind wiped.
I like your idea that its a temporary fix though.

Not if you consider the fact that Lockhart put "his" defeat of the Wagga Wagga Werewolf in one of his books. Lockhart did erase the memory of the wizard who actually did defeat the werewolf but he published the story. I would think Lupin would be aware of that. Even if he was aware that Lockhart didn't do the deed himself he would know the charm existed.

WoodenCoyote

May 24th, 2005, 3:11 am

Not if you consider the fact that Lockhart put "his" defeat of the Wagga Wagga Werewolf in one of his books. Lockhart did erase the memory of the wizard who actually did defeat the werewolf but he published the story. I would think Lupin would be aware of that. Even if he was aware that Lockhart didn't do the deed himself he would know the charm existed.
Maybe he doesn't believe it simply because its something Lockhart wrote? If someone you know who lies constantly happens to say something true for once, you might not catch it and you're not going to believe them anyway. And Lockhart didn't say how he did the charm, he only claimed to have performed it. He probably didn't even know the spell himself.

meesha1971

May 24th, 2005, 3:26 am

Maybe he doesn't believe it simply because its something Lockhart wrote? If someone you know who lies constantly happens to say something true for once, you might not catch it and you're not going to believe them anyway. And Lockhart didn't say how he did the charm, he only claimed to have performed it. He probably didn't even know the spell himself.

If you were a werewolf and found out that there might be a cure wouldn't you check into it? Lockhart was a fraud but he did write about things that real witches and wizards had done - he just took credit for them. I think Lupin would have looked into the Homorphous Charm if he didn't already know about it. Even if he knew Lockhart was a fraud it still would have been worth checking out.

WoodenCoyote

May 24th, 2005, 3:30 am

If you were a werewolf and found out that there might be a cure wouldn't you check into it? Lockhart was a fraud but he did write about things that real witches and wizards had done - he just took credit for them. I think Lupin would have looked into the Homorphous Charm if he didn't already know about it. Even if he knew Lockhart was a fraud it still would have been worth checking out.No-one knows that Lockhart stole all those things, they assume he made them up. I would have followed the trail too, but with Lockhart in the bin and no clues after that it goes cold pretty fast.
Hmm, I wonder... Harry had been told the charm was real and had been preformed by a real wizard. As far as we know, he believes that its real. He knows Remus is a werewolf, why didn't he mention it?

meesha1971

May 24th, 2005, 4:49 am

No-one knows that Lockhart stole all those things, they assume he made them up. I would have followed the trail too, but with Lockhart in the bin and no clues after that it goes cold pretty fast.
Hmm, I wonder... Harry had been told the charm was real and had been preformed by a real wizard. As far as we know, he believes that its real. He knows Remus is a werewolf, why didn't he mention it?

I think Dumbledore knows what Lockhart did. When Harry and Ron told him about the memory charm backfiring he said, "Impaled on your own sword, Gilderoy?" and was very amused. If the Homorphous Charm was actually a cure then Dumbledore would either have known about it or found out about it and told Lupin. We weren't given very many details about the charm - Lockhart acted it out with Harry in class and told them about it. Not to mention the fact that Hermione would have looked it up herself if it was actually a cure. They loved Lupin - that's exactly the sort of thing Hermione would do.

plgood

May 24th, 2005, 7:41 pm

I have not read all the posts in this thread, so I apologize if this theory has already been thrown out there. One thing Harry discovers in CoS is that Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts because he is falsely accused by Tom Riddle of being the Heir of Slytherin and opening the Chamber. But even Tom Riddle tells Harry "I thought someone must realize that Hagrid couldn't possibly be the Heir of Slytherin." (CoS ch 16) Why doesn't someone realize Hagrid isn't the Heir of Slytherin? Why is it that only Dumbledore believes in Hagrid's innocence? Is there something we don't know about Hagrid's past? It could be that there was just an overwhelming prejudice against Hagrid because he is part giant, that no one bothered to really look at the possibility of him being the true Heir, or is there something Harry will find out about Hagrid in HBP.

ravclawprefec

May 24th, 2005, 7:44 pm

My vote is that the discovery has to do with squibs, since Harry discovered that Filch is one in CoS.

Master_Feign

May 24th, 2005, 7:49 pm

Was there any discovery about Snape, not necisarily his character, but his actions or something relevant like that?

xharrypotterx

June 18th, 2005, 6:52 am

I think Dumbledore knows what Lockhart did. When Harry and Ron told him about the memory charm backfiring he said, "Impaled on your own sword, Gilderoy?" and was very amused. If the Homorphous Charm was actually a cure then Dumbledore would either have known about it or found out about it and told Lupin. We weren't given very many details about the charm - Lockhart acted it out with Harry in class and told them about it. Not to mention the fact that Hermione would have looked it up herself if it was actually a cure. They loved Lupin - that's exactly the sort of thing Hermione would do.

I agree. Hermione, as well as the rest of the Trio definately would have looked up the Homorphous Charm if they had known more about the charm other than the fact that it was acted out in class. There are a few possiblities in my mind, as to why they didn't look it up:
First, it is possible that the wizard who originally saved the Wagga Wagga Werewolf was the only one who could do the extremely complex charm (possibly even the one who invented it), in which case the charm is lost now that both the wizard and Lockhart have their memories zapped. Not that Lockhart would be able to reproduce or recreate the charm, at any rate.

Secondly, the fact that Dumbledore, although knowing of Lockhart's exploits did not mention this charm to Lupin, or even seem like he knew of the charm in the first place leads me to believe that the charm does not exist. Of course, we are not aware of any side conversations that Dumbledore may have with Lupin, as Harry obviously was not present, but if the charm did exist, Dumbledore would have performed the charm to save his friend and perhaps the incident involving Pettigrew's escape may never have happened. At the very least, we would have heard of an improvement or a full cure of Lupin's condition. Also, in OotP, when the Trio visits Arthur Weasley just after his attack over Christmas, there is a man who was just bitten in the same ward as Mr. Weasley. Mr. Weasley says that there is no cure at all (pg. 488, American Hardback). This also points me down the path to where the charm probably never existed in the first place, if the Healers at London's top hostpital don't even know about it. There is always the chance that the first possibility is true. In which case the charm that was concievably created by the wizard is now gone because of Lockhart's spell.

The last (and most likely) is that the Trio simply forgot about the charm from the sparse mention of it in their second year to their meeting Lupin in their third. Harry and Ron did not find out that Lupin was a werewolf until after their third year final exams, sometime in the beginning of June. That is well over a year in time between finding out about the charm and then facing the fact that Lupin has lycanthropy. This long time span makes it easy to forget something that was just mentioned in passing. Hermione did find out about Lupin's condition much earlier in the year, that is true, but it was still a great deal of time from that first obscure mention in Lockhart's class. Another possibility is that the Trio (at least Harry and Ron), who thought that Lockhart was a phony from the beginning, dismissed every bit of rubbish that Lockhart was trying to feed them, in which case they certainly would not have remembered hearing of the charm by their third year. Hermione, on the other hand was locked on to every word that Lockhart had to dish out, so I can't see that she would forget about it that easily.

At any rate, I feel that the Homorphous charm was not the discovery that Harry made in CoS.

One thing Harry discovers in CoS is that Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts because he is falsely accused by Tom Riddle of being the Heir of Slytherin and opening the Chamber. But even Tom Riddle tells Harry "I thought someone must realize that Hagrid couldn't possibly be the Heir of Slytherin." (CoS ch 16) Why doesn't someone realize Hagrid isn't the Heir of Slytherin? Why is it that only Dumbledore believes in Hagrid's innocence? Is there something we don't know about Hagrid's past?

Well, after Harry's ordeal in the Chamber of Secrets, and after he told the story of what happened throughout the year concerning Tom Riddle's Diary, I believe that Hagrid's name was cleared of that charge when he was released from Azkaban based on Dumbledore's letter. You might find these threads interesting:

Why does Dumbledore Trust Hagrid? (http://www.cosforums.com/cosarchive/showthread.php?t=21487&page=1&pp=20) - from the CoS archives. Here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=53788) is the active version of this thread.
What was Hagrid REALLY up to in CoS? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=5647)

My vote is that the discovery has to do with squibs, since Harry discovered that Filch is one in CoS.

This is possible, but I see this discovery as nothing more than another element in the sub-plot dealing with blood throughout the book. I can't see how much more the fact that Filch is a Squib will have anymore bearing on the upcoming Book 6.

potionsnerd

July 6th, 2005, 11:27 pm

not sure if this has been said or not (this is a long thread to have to read through...) but i was directed to this thread with my comment, so here it is. any thoughts woudl be appreciated.

J.K Rowling said that something in Chamber of Secrets is revealed that ties in with Half Blood Prince. If that is true i haven't found anything in chamber of secrets that came as a surprise other than Voldemort being Salazar Slythering's heir.

have any of you found anything?

the thing that sort of gives it away is, in an interview, jkr said the movie people wanted to cut something from the chamber scene, but she told them they couldn't because it would be important later on. so look at the movie and pick out the things that either cost a lot of money or took up a lot of time (relatively), and then you have a short list, because these would be the things a director/producer would be most likely to want to cut.

here's the short list i came up with:
~the basilisk coming out of the mouth of a statue: it added extra time, it took extra money for the statue's construction and animation. any other director (most likely) would have just had it slither out of one of the pipes. it saves time and money: the two most important things in the film world.
~the sword coming out of the sorting hat: this would have been a typical film cut. if A leads to B which leads to C, why not get rid of B and make A go directly to C? in other words, why have fawkes bring a hat for harry to get a sword out of, when fawkes could have just brough harry the sword?

those are the two that stand out to me. and after taking my screen writing and film class, they stand out even more.