So Dumbledore's LAST is not his FIRST....

On the JKR.com poll, it says that Dumbledore's last was not his first, and that Petunia and Dumbledore had been sending letters to one another before. What could these letters have been about? And what impact will they have on book 6 and 7? I suppose it must be signifigant to them...quite signifigant.

Im guessing HIS LAST was about the protection Harry has when he is in Privet Drive with his Aunt, but there was probably some other stuff in there too, but the ones before that? I dont know, but maybe there could have been one about the prophecy? :huh:

I think that because of Lily Petunia knows more about the wizard world then she lets on. DD I'm sure has had a hand in Petunia keeping HP all these years. DD & Petunia have some agreement or understanding. I do think that the truth will come out in books 6 & 7. JKR says that there will be more answers than questions in the last 2 books.

I'm 90% sure that all the letters Dumbledore has written to Petunia has concerned Harry, Lily or James in some way or other. All we need to know is WHY it concerns them. It's not fair, we're going to have to wait till book six or seven! I can't stand the wait!

I just read that! I can't imagine why Dumbledore and Petunia would have been corresponding BEFORE the attck on the Potters!

Obviously this confirms the statement that Petunia is more than she seems. It makes me wonder if she was in the original Order.

Why why why would Dumbledore be writing to her?

Obviously this confirms the statement that Petunia is more than she seems. It makes me wonder if she was in the original Order.Yes, this is my best guess. Petunia was a part of the original war effort. HOWEVER, I don't think Vernon was in on it. We never saw Petunia's reaction to DD's last letter or to receiving Harry on her doorstep. Before then, she might have been pretending to Vernon that she was not involved in the whole wizard thing. She probably also knew Arabella Figg was a squib. That might be why Harry was often sent there.

Even more important, I think, why did he stop writing after his last? If he had something to tell her BEFORE the attack, then why not AFTER the attack? Strange.

But are muggles allowed to be in the order? As far as I know (Or aa far as I'm assuming,) the OOTP is a wizards only thing. Unless Petunia was a spy? :huh:

gr. this is just one more thing about the books that's going to drive me insane until I read the sixth and seventh ones. blah. maybe DD thought it was important for Petunia to keep Lily in mind during the hard times to come when LV was in power. Maybe he was writing her trying to get her to come to terms with the fact that her sister is a witch. it could be a number of things but what we do know is that Petunia will have a bigger role than first expected.

Yes, this is my best guess. Petunia was a part of the original war effort. HOWEVER, I don't think Vernon was in on it. We never saw Petunia's reaction to DD's last letter or to receiving Harry on her doorstep. Before then, she might have been pretending to Vernon that she was not involved in the whole wizard thing. She probably also knew Arabella Figg was a squib. That might be why Harry was often sent there.

Vernon was definitely not in on it.

But why Aunt Petunia. Was she a Muggle Liason? But then why would she try so hard to hide Harry's magic from the neighbors? Why was she so scornful of Lily? Even if she's just faking it!


And why would she marry someone like Vernon?

"So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys' doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that…" per JKR FAQ POLL

Why would DD write to Petunia before HP came to live with her?

DD would have tried to make arrangements for HP in the event that his parents both died. DD didn't want HP to grow up in the wizard world. He wanted him to live in the muggle world so he would have some sense of a normal childhood.

I wonder if he made arrangements for Neville too or if it was understood that his grandma would take him. She's a fiesty old lady and I can't see her letting DD take Neville away.

Until the attack even with the prophesy there was no way to know which boy it was about.

Interestingly enough, I was rereading SS (for clues about something totally different), and noticed that owls were definitely around #4 Privet Drive the morning after the attack at Godric's Hollow. The readers follow Vernon to work (more owls outside his office window, but he doesn't see them), maybe owls delivered letters and replies to/from Petunia that day.

"So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys' doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that…" per JKR FAQ POLL

Why would DD write to Petunia before HP came to live with her?

DD would have tried to make arrangements for HP in the event that his parents both died. DD didn't want HP to grow up in the wizard world. He wanted him to live in the muggle world so he would have some sense of a normal childhood.

I wonder if he made arrangements for Neville too or if it was understood that his grandma would take him. She's a fiesty old lady and I can't see her letting DD take Neville away.

Until the attack even with the prophesy there was no way to know which boy it was about.


You know that actually makes a lot of sense (much more than my OotP theory). After all Dumbledore knew since before the Potter's were born that Voldemort was going to come after Harry.

Good call. I think you're right :D

It always was a mystery to me why the Dursleys would even take Harry in in the first place. They wanted nothing to do with the Potters so why would they even bother? There is more to Petunia than we see, for sure, but what is it? There had to be something in it for her as well...

i made no point there, sorry lol

But are muggles allowed to be in the order? As far as I know (Or aa far as I'm assuming,) the OOTP is a wizards only thing. Unless Petunia was a spy? :huh:
This was what I was wondering. It is confusing why she would be corresponding with DD before Harry was left with her. I keep thinking that maybe she was accepted to Hogwart's and refused to go. Does anyone know if she is younger or older than Lilly?

This was what I was wondering. It is confusing why she would be corresponding with DD before Harry was left with her. I keep thinking that maybe she was accepted to Hogwart's and refused to go. Does anyone know if she is younger or older than Lilly?

I'd say she's older.

For further reference, here's what JKR said on her website (http://www.jkrowling.com):

What did Dumbledore's Howler to Aunt Petunia mean? ('Remember my last'?)
Well, it is a relief to move on after the Mark Evans fiasco. This time, two out of the three poll questions had interesting answers (or so I think) and thank goodness you chose one of them.

So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys' doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that…

Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I'll be watching…

Even more important, I think, why did he stop writing after his last? If he had something to tell her BEFORE the attack, then why not AFTER the attack? Strange.I also wondered this. But most likely it's because the war was over and nothing really needed to be said. It would also be suspicious to have lots of owls going back and forth when she's obviously trying to keep her connection to the magical world a secret.


But why Aunt Petunia. Was she a Muggle Liason? But then why would she try so hard to hide Harry's magic from the neighbors? Why was she so scornful of Lily? Even if she's just faking it!

And why would she marry someone like Vernon?I don't think she's faking her scorn of Lily, but I do think she is more into the magical world than she lets on. As for marrying Vernon, I don't know, but I think she probably really does love him.


DD would have tried to make arrangements for HP in the event that his parents both died. DD didn't want HP to grow up in the wizard world. He wanted him to live in the muggle world so he would have some sense of a normal childhood.

I wonder if he made arrangements for Neville too or if it was understood that his grandma would take him. She's a fiesty old lady and I can't see her letting DD take Neville away.

Until the attack even with the prophesy there was no way to know which boy it was about.Good theory. I think that might be it. :agree: I think it will also have to do with the "ancient magic" used by Lily and the protection Privet Drive gives Harry.

yes! coz she knew he would be safe from harm there....
it seems wierd that petunia would have anything to do with DD particulaly as she seems to distance herself from the wizarding world. its also strange that they would be talking about lily, james and harry as she seemed to really dislike them (did she ever says that she actually hated them? or was it just like diaproval or whatver) did she just say she hated them but was she really was just a bit jelous of lily? loads of people have said that to me before. but yeah, i suppose he could be trying to make arragments for harry if jamesas and lily died, was he trying to convince petunia? to garantee that if he dropped harry off their he wouldnt just be sent to the nearest ophinage? (sp?) but if it wasnt about J/L/H then wat on earth would they have to talk about? i don reconshe was in the order coz she seemed to hate that whole world.
but what this does tell us that lily did have some contact with the wizarding world be it just with DD. also i alway wondered were they actally were when petunia heard about the dementors when she overheard james and lily, were they just at their house or what?
anyway anymore specualtions on the contents of the previos (sp? lol sorry my spellings terrible!) letters? it's sorta wierd...

I have to admit I never considered this explanation. I hope we get to find out the contents, or at least the subject, of his first letter (and any others). I wonder if Vernon knows about the others??

I think she is a LOT jealous of Lily, and it has soured her a bit. But I'm thinking it hasn't gone so far that she would refuse to take Harry in the event of her sister's death, or refuse to protect him from Lord Voldemort. Most of the throwing-out-of-the-house threats have come from Vernon.

--- EDIT ---

Also, a poster (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=5122#140605) at TLC (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/) pointed something out:

the "last" letter to the Dursleys was NOT the doorstep letter. It was the "flying car to Hogwarts" letter.I think this was a mistake on JKR's part though. :shrug:

I think this was a mistake on JKR's part though. :shrug:

Maybe McGonagall sent that one :D

One has to wonder how much of Harry's life and events in his life have been shaped by Dumbledore.

It sounds to me that Dumbledore has planned a lot of things that we are no aware of, including dropping Harry off at the Dursley's. It certainly sounds like he arranged this way beforehand...

book 6...book6...book6...book6... :upset:

DD could attempt to reconcile the sisters? Or have written while Lily and Petunia still lived under the same roof?

Or have written while Lily and Petunia still lived under the same roof?Hmm, that's interesting. It could have been a recruitment letter to both of them, explaining the situation with the war and the Order, and what needed to be done. But I don't think Lily and Petunia have lived together since Lily's last summer before her seventh year. I'm not sure when the war started in relation to that...

I wouldn't understand why Petunia, being a wizard, would marry Vernon before the end of the war. I want to think that Petunia was a wizard like her sisterand was in the order, but her sisters death by Voldemort made her not want to associate with wizards and no one from the order knows her. So that theory isn't true.
Maybe Petunia was sent to Hogwarts, but turned out to be a squib and then her sister was really good while Petunia, still at Hogwarts tried to hide her lack of magic and of course she was jealous and envious. So then when people find out she was a squib she goes to the muggle world, marries vernon and hates the wizarding world.
But then you need to think, how does Vernon know of the wizarding world if it is ment to be a secret? After all Vernon is a regular muggle, i doubt he was a squib since he doesn't seem to know anything of the wizarding world, perhaps only things Petunia has told him of it.
I am pretty confused, lots of wierd roads to go down. I remember Rowling saying this summer would be Harry's favorite summer. Maybe this means Petunia will be motherly to him? Maybe he won't spend time with the Dursleys but as there are many possibilites with Petunia's character I doubt it. I think Petunia will be nice to harry or something.

Maybe, maybe, maybe......there seems to be a lot of maybes!

If Petunia and Dumbledore were conversing....did Dumbledore send the owls when Vernon was at work??? Maybe she wanted to know about Lily without Vernon knowing??? And maybe not letting Lily know????

Questions, questions, questions!!!!

Please Jo..........WRITE FASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

P.S. - hasn't Jo said that Lily was muggle born????? Therefore Petunia could not be a squib! :rotfl:

Maybe McGonagall sent that one :D
CoS, Am. pb, p. 101: Dumbledore (says), "...I will be writing to both your families tonight."
In the movie, MM has that line.

I immediately thought of the acceptance letter from hogwarts when i read this answer on JKR's site. I think Petunia is/was a witch, but never got trained, maybe she will be the one learning magic late in life. Because, it seems like even if she had been corresponding with DD just recently b4 that "last" letter, that it wouldnt be as significant, because it would just be stuff about maybe having to take harry if james and lily died. Also, i dont think petunia would have agreed to this if DD had asked her when it wasnt an emergency. i dunno, im not makin a whole lot of sense, but my first reaction was "OMG Petunias a witch!" and that the letter b4 was the one from hogwarts. the only problem with this is that McGonigell writes those letters. oh well maybe dd wrote her trying to convince her to come after she said she wouldnt.

As for marrying Vernon, I don't know, but I think she probably really does love him.
I have a suspicion regarding this. It is said that women marry men who resemble their fathers unless they don't like their fathers... in which case they'll marry someone who is completely and totally different.
I've noticed this happen a lot in real life, and I think it's happened with Petunia. Mr. Evans must have been a beautiful man. :D

I have to admit, when I saw the word "LAST", I understood there to be more letters than the one on the doorstep with Harry, but I assumed it would have had to be AFTER that one, not before. This changes my whole perception of the howler. That is, morgiana appears to be on the right track in suggesting the previous letters were plan B: plan A being keeping Harry (and Neville, as they didn't know who the prophecy was about, yet) safe and sound. It would appear from PS/SS that Dumbledore rather expected the Dursleys to keep Harry. Now it would appear that he had laid the groundwork beforehand (minus, apparently, Vernon's input.)

Okay, so now the whole Petunia thing will have to be rethought. All the threads on her did not take into consideration this correspondence with DD as (one of) her source(s) of information. Some assume she is a squib or a witch that didn't make it to Hogwarts. Some think she will start to show magical abilities. I personally thought that she had just snooped alot on James and Lily while they were dating (jealousy? trying to catch them up to something?) and had learned alot about the wizarding world beyond knowing about dementors and what the significance would be of Voldemort's return. Now, it appears she may have received some of this information directly from Dumbledore in his correspondences.

Wow! I was hoping for an interesting answer, and not just that it was the letter at the doorstep. But I WAS hoping for something more concrete -- not more clues with no immediate answers!! JKR strikes again!!!

I immediately thought of the acceptance letter from hogwarts when i read this answer on JKR's site. I think Petunia is/was a witch, but never got trained, maybe she will be the one learning magic late in life.Petunia is neither a wizard nor a squib, she is a muggle. Lily's parrents were muggles, and Lily was muggleborn. Petunia never received a letter from Hogwarts. I believe the person who is learning magic late in life is Neville.

I immediately thought of the acceptance letter from hogwarts when i read this answer on JKR's site. I think Petunia is/was a witch, but never got trained, maybe she will be the one learning magic late in life. Because, it seems like even if she had been corresponding with DD just recently b4 that "last" letter, that it wouldnt be as significant, because it would just be stuff about maybe having to take harry if james and lily died. Also, i dont think petunia would have agreed to this if DD had asked her when it wasnt an emergency. i dunno, im not makin a whole lot of sense, but my first reaction was "OMG Petunias a witch!" and that the letter b4 was the one from hogwarts. the only problem with this is that McGonigell writes those letters. oh well maybe dd wrote her trying to convince her to come after she said she wouldnt.
Sorry, JKR said Petunia was a Muggle and confirmed that Petunia is not a Squib. A little open ended, "...she's a Muggle, but..."

I agree that one or more letters arrived at #4 while Vernon was at work that day. Petunia put on a show for Vernon and the neighbors by screaming when she found Harry on the doorstep.

maybe Dumbledore knew that Voldie would be after Lily and James (I'm sure he knew) and he might have been preparing Petunia to take in Harry just in case . . .
He might have even explained the prophecy to her. I mean why not? She would probably wan't a reason for taking in her nephew.
WHERE IS THAT SIXTH BOOK??? :upset:

And as for Petunia being in the Order, she wasn't in the picture Moody showed Harry of the "Original Order of the Phoenix" at the party for the new prefects. And by the way it was worded when Moody was listing the people in the picture, there appeared to be no room for someone hiding in the back -- that position was taken by James, Peter and Lily. So there is little reason to believe she would have been in the Order, especially the way she felt about her sister and brother-in-law.

She might have been in the Order without the others knowing about it. But I think I do like morgiana's theory better. It makes sense.

Well we know that he had given one to her when he was placed on her doorstep

Okay, this fits in perfectly with my theory! It makes absolute sense that Dumbledore was in contact with Petunia BEFORE the Potters died. Why didn't I think of it before? Dumbledore knew the prophecy. He wasn't sure which boy would be affected, Neville or Harry. It makes perfect sense that Dumbledore would consult Petunia ahead of time. He probably owled her that Lily and James were in hiding from Voldermort and that in case they were found, that Harry would need looking after.

It also makes sense that he would have sent her instructions in the event that this did occur. I believe he would have informed her about the charm that he would place on the house, and he would have explained the blood protection to her.

I also believe that Petunia chose not to share this information with Vernon. She couldn't have told him because he wouldn't have accepted it. This wasn't something she could deny Harry. Dumbledore is a persuasive man. I'm sure he knew how to word the owls he sent Petunia to make her accept the responsibility of raising Harry, whether she wanted to or not.

Of course, if Atherella's theory is correct, (that Lily was a Seer), then Lily might have also seen what was going to happen that night in Godric's Hollow. That makes sense as well as Lily would have related this information to Dumbledore. Dumbledore and Lily would then have enough time to plan a course of action. This news makes sense to me!

the "last" letter to the Dursleys was NOT the doorstep letter. It was the "flying car to Hogwarts" letter.

I think this was a mistake on JKR's part though.



The flying car letter would have been addressed to Vernon and Petunia, as Harry's guardians. The letter that came to Petunia in the kitchen in OoTP was addressed only to Petunia. Does that mean that the letter Dumbledore left on the door step with Harry that night was addressed to Petunia only, also? I think JKR thought out her answer before she posted it, and she meant exactly what she said.

JKR updated her website and apparently Dumbledore was writing to Petunia before he left Harry on her doorstep. Unfortunately, she didn't go into anymore of Petunia's mysterious past.

While it is possible that Dumbledore was setting up a place for Harry, I don't know what it is that would make Dumbledore think that Harry or Neville would survive if Voldemort wanted either one of them dead. I also wonder about Petunia. Remember in OoP, that Tonks makes some remarks about how clean the Kitchen is, and almost compares it to how clean her mom kept their house.

I was wondering if it was possible that one of Lilly's and petunias parents was a witch or wizard or even a squib therefore petunia could have been a squib, but have grown up in muggle world but still have knowledge of wizarding world like, Mrs Fig. I aslo wondered that their parent (Lilly and Petunia's) may have something to do with the half blood prince thing, it could even make dudley a half blood prince. Just an idea though it seems a bit shakey.

Check this thread?

Howler “Remember my last” (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11257)

Check this thread?

Howler “Remember my last” (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11257)

Hey! Long time no see! We've all been having to do our own searches lately, you know :sad: ;)


EDIT: Hmmmm, sorry - that was completely off topic, wasn't it? :blush:

Well, I like the idea that DD conversed with Petunia before the Potters died. It leads credibility to the idea (which I fully support) that Lily knew ahead of time exactly what she was going to do if and when LV found them. It also supports what I've suspected and that Lily had consulted with DD about exactly what she planned to do (sacrafice herself for Harry.) :)

JKR updated her website and apparently Dumbledore was writing to Petunia before he left Harry on her doorstep. Unfortunately, she didn't go into anymore of Petunia's mysterious past.At the moment it is taking a while for me to get onto the site but did JKR say how long before he did right the letter, in other words did he know what was about to happen on that night days before hand to send the letter off to Hogwarts.

Petunia can be quite the actress. Since she got owl-mail from Dumbledore prior to leaving Harry on the doorstep, it makes the scream she let out at finding Harry there was for show. She also gets all dramatic about getting an owl-mail (howler) addressed to her in OotP, but we now know this is not the first time she has received such a letter addressed to her.

Other note on the FAQ says Petunia exaggerated about Lily and the frog spawn & tea cup incidents.

Just read it too :)

It's pity we do not have any timing of these previous letters. Was it when Lily was still in Hogwarts? asking Petunia to be nice and quiet, because poor Lily cannot learn beacuse of her? :lol:
Your ideas of asking Petunia of help in advance make a lot of sence. I wonder about her reaction on Vernon's asking her about Lily and Harry (PS/SS) - was it surprise that Vernon knows something what she was just told by DD? Did she read the letters from DD, or throw them away? Was she paying attention to them, or tried to believe nothing happend?
one answer, hundreds new questions :grumble:

I think that there is definitely more to Petunia than meets the eye. I think that she knows a whole lot more about the wizarding world than she’s let on. Besides, who is there to tell Harry, and us, otherwise?? I get the feeling that she was even supportive of the whole magic concept until either Lily got too busy to include her anymore, or because Lily and James died. I’m almost not tempted to go with the death scenario because there seemed to be a falling out with Petunia and Lily. There is definitely tension when wizarding is brought up in the Dursley household. Not just trying to get Harry out of magic.

Perhaps with LV about Lily couldn’t confide in Petunia, making her feel left out and unneeded. So she decided to hold this grudge against wizarding all together, and the death of Lily and James just made the whole thing worse.

Either way, I think that we will be finding out why Petunia is the way she is, and I’d be surprised to find that she wasn’t more involved when Lily was in Hogwarts herself.

I'm not sure if these questions will even be answered in the next book, seeing as Harry will be spending hardly any time there... :shrug:

One more little bit of evidence to support the idea that Dumbledore knew all along what was going to happen to the Potters and needed to prepare Petunia. Time Travel?

http://www.knight2king.net

I also think Petunia may be a witch... in fact, I am pretty sure she will be the one to come into magic late in life.

No, Petunia is not a witch, she's a muggle. It says so on her website. Please let's put that to rest people.

I think Petunia hates the magic world because it took her sister away from her not once but twice. First, when Lily left for Hogwarts Petunia was left behind and when Lily died. Petunia has alot of reasons to hate things that are magical.

His last was the letter he put on Harry, and last implies more than one.

of course petunia knows a lot more about the magical world than she's ever told harry. her sister was a witch. hermione's parents prolly know a lot more about the magical world now that their daughter is a witch.

from chapter 1 ps:

"'A letter?' repeated Professor McGonagall faintly, sitting back down on the wall. 'Really, Dumbledore, you think you can explain all this in a letter? These people will never understand him! He'll be famous - a legend - I wouldn't be surprised if today was known as Harry Potter day in future - there will be books written about Harry - every child in our world will know his name!'

the letter was to petunia AND vernon!

from chapter 4 ps:

"You never told him? Never told him what was in the letter Dumbledore left fer him? I was there! I saw Dumbledore leave it, Dursley! An' you've kept it from him all these years?"

hmmm..

from chapter 1 ps:

As he had expected, Mrs. Dursley looked shocked and angry. After all, they normally pretended she didn't have a sister.

"No," she said sharply. "Why?"

"Funny stuff on the news," Mr. Dursley mumbled. "Owls... shooting stars... and there were a lot of funny-looking people in town today..."

"So?" snapped Mrs. Dursley.

"Well, I just thought... maybe... it was something to do with... you know... her crowd."

vernon knew.

Did you mean to add: Dumbledore said "His aunt and uncle will be able to explain everything to him when he's older. I've written them a letter." ? That part seems more pertinent to what you were saying.

Yes, this is my best guess. Petunia was a part of the original war effort. HOWEVER, I don't think Vernon was in on it. We never saw Petunia's reaction to DD's last letter or to receiving Harry on her doorstep. Before then, she might have been pretending to Vernon that she was not involved in the whole wizard thing. She probably also knew Arabella Figg was a squib. That might be why Harry was often sent there.Ah, great theory! Although doesn't Figgy say that the Dursleys would never have sent Harry to stay with her if they thought he was having fun? That seems to imply that Petunia didn't know Figgy is a Squib. Unless Figgy's lying, which is entirely possible.

There is so much acting on the parts of various characters! Petunia pretends she doesn't know anything about magic, yet knows a whole lot more than she lets on. Figgy came out of the woodwork and threw us all for a loop, and I think it will absolutely fantastic when (not if! :p ) that happens with Petunia.

What might her role in the Order have been? Others have suggested some sort of Muggle-liason role, although you'd think a Muggle who works in Parliament and has decent access to the people running the country would be better suited for that. There's a (half-baked? :p ) theory in that thread about the everything that occurs underground that there's a secret passage from Harry's bedroom to Gringotts, perhaps Petunia was responsible for creating it!

I think the one person we can assume never knew anything, currently knows nothing, and will never know anything substantial about the wizarding world is Uncle Vernon. :) [He knows about things only by accident and only if desperately necessary, i.e. where Platform 9 3/4 is or what a Dementor is.]

"You can't blame them," said Dumbledore gently. "We've had precious little to celebrate for eleven years."

Well, I like the idea that DD conversed with Petunia before the Potters died. It leads credibility to the idea (which I fully support) that Lily knew ahead of time exactly what she was going to do if and when LV found them. It also supports what I've suspected and that Lily had consulted with DD about exactly what she planned to do (sacrafice herself for Harry.) :)I can't imagine that she came up with the charm/spell to protect Harry on the spot. You're right that if she was planning what she eventually did, then she would have gone to Dumbledore, if not for advice or instructions on performing the charm/spell, then for moral support. From what we saw in OotP, she was level headed, and this would seem to be in character for her.

if, according to jk, sirius was around 22 when he went to azkaban, this means that the voldemort problems started right around the time james, sirius, remus, and severus all started at hogwarts.

No, Petunia is not a witch, she's a muggle. It says so on her website. Please let's put that to rest people.


Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.


In another interview, JKR says someone will come into magic late in life. So, if not witch, then Muggle who can do magic under extraordinary circumstances or something. JKR clearly indicates there is more there and that Squib isn't a bad guess.

Mabe Dumbldore when he heard to prophesey knew that obviously there was a possibility Harry/his parents would be hunted down. Dumbldore knew that their lives were in danger and mabe he let Petunia know this about before hand. In case something happened. WHich it did. And there is still the person who develops magic late in life. I dont think she knew Figg was a squib because in OotP she says that she never told harry she was a squib because if AUnt Petunia knew he would not have been allowed to stay there. Unless Petunia knew which if she did Figg did not know. It will be interesting to see what else dumbldore has to say/what he has said in the future books.

The first book mentions how boring, bland and "normal" Privet Drive is. And how Aunt Petunia was always looking out the window to see what her neighbors were up to, for gossip. What if she wasn't looking for gossip, but rather for an approaching owl? She looks out the window when she hears about Sirius Black. Looking for an owl regarding Harry's safety? A true case of a hidden clue! ARRGHH!!! Right before our eyes and we didn't see it!! Bravo Jo! :)

Like some of you said Dumbledore might have sent her a letter about the protection the Potters were given against Voldemort. She might have also gotten a letter saying that she had not been accepted in Hogwarts.

Like some of you said Dumbledore might have sent her a letter about the protection the Potters were given against Voldemort. She might have also gotten a letter saying that she had not been accepted in Hogwarts.

perhaps, but i doubt it. petunia's not a witch!

The first book mentions how boring, bland and "normal" Privet Drive is. And how Aunt Petunia was always looking out the window to see what her neighbors were up to, for gossip. What if she wasn't looking for gossip, but rather for an approaching owl? She looks out the window when she hears about Sirius Black. Looking for an owl regarding Harry's safety?Yes, that sounds very likely. :agree: She may have been a part of the Order (without the others knowing) and been part of the plan to protect Harry. I'm trying to figure out a way to reconcile her hating Harry so much and yet still helping wizards in the war... :shrug:

She might have also gotten a letter saying that she had not been accepted in Hogwarts.
I don't think Hogwarts sends letters to Muggles (Muggleborns, yes, Muggles who don't make it even though a sibling did I really have to doubt.). Just MHO.

Okay, this fits in perfectly with my theory! It makes absolute sense that Dumbledore was in contact with Petunia BEFORE the Potters died. Why didn't I think of it before? Dumbledore knew the prophecy. He wasn't sure which boy would be affected, Neville or Harry. It makes perfect sense that Dumbledore would consult Petunia ahead of time. He probably owled her that Lily and James were in hiding from Voldermort and that in case they were found, that Harry would need looking after.

It also makes sense that he would have sent her instructions in the event that this did occur. I believe he would have informed her about the charm that he would place on the house, and he would have explained the blood protection to her.

I also believe that Petunia chose not to share this information with Vernon. She couldn't have told him because he wouldn't have accepted it. This wasn't something she could deny Harry. Dumbledore is a persuasive man. I'm sure he knew how to word the owls he sent Petunia to make her accept the responsibility of raising Harry, whether she wanted to or not.

Of course, if Atherella's theory is correct, (that Lily was a Seer), then Lily might have also seen what was going to happen that night in Godric's Hollow. That makes sense as well as Lily would have related this information to Dumbledore. Dumbledore and Lily would then have enough time to plan a course of action. This news makes sense to me!


I think your assuming way to much here. DD cant tell the future. Yes he had the prophesy, but he had no idea that LV was going to kill his parents. And had no idea that Lily was going to inact this ancient form of magic, so he couldnt tell Petunia about that. All DD knew was that some boy was going to be marked as LV equal. He had no idea how all the rest was going to play out.

I often wonder if the Dursleys have any real decency in their collective makeup? I'm not sure they were given any choice in taking Harry in, and they are particularly vindictive in their treatment of him, and it seems almost pathological, but I can't believe it's all due to the oddness of him. Sure they resent being "saddled" with him, but there has to be some other underlying cause of their hatred of him. Really, it's beyond reason.

Perhaps Book 6 or 7 will force a change in them and their attitudes. I can only hope.

BTW, the car wreck was both plausible and believable to the muggle world. I could imagine the Dursleys telling this story so often they half-believed it.

interesting thoughts. i could perhaps see that MAYBE the dursleys were trying to spare young harry's feelings by dismissing his parents' death as an accident. perhaps a shred of decency went into that lie to harry. they could have told him his parents were murdered by a thief or something, but that would really have frightened him. and perhaps they too were frightened about the thought of a magic evil guy killing their close relatives...perhaps the lie was also for themselves as well.

I do not know if someone wrote this already (I will read the messages a little later) but I foun JK's answer very interesting, she gave a lot of important information but that is not my point.
I think she will open the door again soon... when she updated her site it happened, I mean maybe not tomorrow but in a couple of weeks. What do you think?

My questions from this answer are:

1) How long have Petunia and Dumbledore been corresponding?/ When did it start?
2) Has Petunia ever met Dumbledore in person before and what where the circumstances surrounding it?
3) How much did Lily tell Petunia about the wizarding world?
4) Where Lily and Petunia on speaking terms before Lily and James died?

Someone on the main site mentioned in comments that it was possible that Lily & Petunia's parents were killed (tortured & killed?) by Voldermort when he was searching for Lily and James. (if anyone would know where Lily was, her parent would be a good bet). But they probably didn't know since Sirius then Peter were they're secret keepers.

Are Lily's & Petunia's parents still alive? If not, how did they die? Natural causes or by dark wizards?

If by dark wizards, then that would go a long way in explaining Petunia's extreme disdain of Harry, Lily, James and anything "wizard".

I would highly doubt that her parents are alive...back to the familiar "Harry's only living relative" cliche, but I do think you may be right in thinking they may have died at the hands of wizards. It is strange not to have any other living relatives at Harry's age, isn't it...strange, but not impossible.
Personally, I've always thought Petunia would be the one to come into magic later in life and have always been struck by a conversation where she mentions seeing HER with HIM. I do assume the HER is Lily, but for some reason, didn't think that HIM referred to James. Maybe it was Dumbledore, although I've had my suspicions about it being Voldemort, and that the discussion was when Lily was young.
I think Petunia knows a great deal more about the wizarding world than she WANTS to admit...rather like Arabella Figg, she can't blow the cover as it will further endanger Harry.

back to the familiar "Harry's only living relative" cliche, but I do think you may be right in thinking they may have died at the hands of wizards. It is strange not to have any other living relatives at Harry's age, isn't it...strange, but not impossible.

Well Voldemort WAS on a killing rampage when he was trying to find "the boy". It's quite possible Voldemort killed everyone (except Petunia) in Lily's family as well as the Potter's.

Maybe Dumbledore saved Petunia from Voldemort's murderous spree. Hence, Petunia is eternally indebted to Dumbledore. BUT, gives her plenty of reason to despise Harry and everything related to the wizarding world.

Which leaves the question, how come Vernon never suspected/knew about this? Petunia must have been married to Vernon at the time. Dudley was born around the same time as Harry, right? (when is Dudley's birthday?).

Did Vernon have his memory wiped because he was a muggle?

I always love reading everyone's messages, because they get me thinking about the books and remembering things I have forgotten. AND excited for the 6th book...c'mon JO! But absolutely nothing is more important than spending time with your children....coughBOOKcough.

Anywho. I love her updates. If she updated what she had for breakfast every morning it would be entertaining, because she just has a way with words that is wonderful.

I started thinking about this theory and I have a few questions. Mostly the same as everyone else, How long have Petunia and Dumbledore been in contact?, etc. etc. I find Petunia's mysterious past very interesting for a few reasons...

Obviously Dumbledore trusts her and they were in contact for quite some time for that trust to build. Especially on Petunia's end. Knowing her character as she is portrayed in the books, she would not exactly warm up to an old 'crackpot' wizard telling her out of nowhere that she has to take in her nephew. He kept her updated...possibly alongside Lily. Did the two of them converse over the possiblity of future events? There was some sort of agreement/guardian rights established over Harry. Did Petunia and Lily reconcile closer to the time of Lily/James death? I believe so. Yes, Petunia is not a witch, but she has something about her that I am certain will be revealed, JKR said this herself that there is more to her than meets the eye.

Now, for a very crazy theory...please don't beat me up too much. What IF Petunia was married or romantically involved with someone before Vernon? What IF that person was a wizard or was involved (Squib?) in the Wizarding world (very opposite of Vernon)? It's incredibly far-fetched, but she is angry at Harry's world for some reason. My guess is that she is older than Lily. What if she was involved with someone, lost him, vowed to stay away from anything involving her sister when she met Vernon and in fact never hated the Wizarding world when she was young, but it built up later? Then she was reminded of it all when Dumbledore began to get in contact with her. Whether it is that deep down she misses her sister or she is trying to cover her past to Vernon who obviously showed a strong hatred for Lily's type when he met Petunia. Or it could be something simple as the fact that Dumbledore insists on Harry living with her, it is going against her wishes and Jo will have very little backstory to Petunia after all. Who knows. BOOK SIX!

alright...here are my theories and i'm sorry if they've already been mentioned or disproved:
i seriously thought that aunt petunia was a squib but then jk rowling herself said she wasn't but she is something...
"Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet."

so if she's not a squib or a witch, what else magical can she be?

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Who is Petunia Dursley? Is she more than just an ordinary muggle or is she a witch? But why does she say she hates Harry's "abnormality". I mean like, ok for four books we thought of Petunia as Harry's mean aunt but ever since the OotP, we can conclude that there is definetly more to Petunia than meets the eye. The question is...what is it?

Just out of curiosity, has it ever been said that Petunia is not a witch? I think it would be a great bit of irony if she turned out to be a witch that had decide to live as a muggle, possibly out of fear of the wizarding world. I would imagine she does end up being the one to show magical ability later in life, in an effort to protect Vernon and Dudly. Another bit of irony would be if Vernon is rescued by the thing he hates most. I think her letters to/from Dumbledore were probably sharing of basic information. Correct me if I'm wrong but, did Dumbledore not say a close eye was kept on Harry? Maybe he exchanged letters with Petunia to see that Harry was still under her watch. Perhaps Harry was kept in the cubbord to make sure she knew where he was and was out of danger. I would also imagine that along with Dumbledore asking about Harry, he would give Petunia important wizarding world info, such as about dementors and Voldemort and just basic information of things she should watch out for. I do not think it was ever said that the Dursley home had a Fidelius charm put on it, and if it does not, then it would be a major Deatheater target. I believe that all the letters ever amounted to were further protection for Harry.

DD knew the prophecy and told Lily and James. They had a secret keeper and must have had a back up plan in place. Lily's ancient magic protected Harry that night and with later with Prof. Quirrel. What if that magic involved Petunia's particpation? Harry is safe in her home, could she have been involved in an ancient charm to protect Harry or did DD perform a fideleus charm on the Dursley's (I suspect Veron is clueless) so Harry will be safe on holiday?

Just out of curiosity, has it ever been said that Petunia is not a witch?I really wish people would read threads before posting. This one isn't even that long.

Like I've said three times before on this thread. JKR has said on her website that Petunia is neither a wizard nor a squib. There is obviously more to her than meets the eye, but she is not magical!

This isnt really about the letters but more about what petunia isnt telling....

ok so we now know that James and Lily were 22 when they died. That means there was 5 years between when they started dating and their deaths.

So that being said. in Ootp, page 34 UK/Canadian addition petunia states that she heard "that awful boy tell her about them years ago..."

the dementors.

now we assume that she means James telling Lily about them, even Harry assumes this since he says "if you mean my mum and dad why dont you say their names"

But what makes me wonder is Lily being between 17-22 you'd think she know all about the dementors by then. You could look at it in a way that maybe James was telling LIly about some recent dementor news or what not but even then....petunia said he was telling her 'about them" which makes it sound like he was telling her what they are about...

now this may sound dumb but what of that her wasnt referring to lily but to petunia herself...and who knows who that awful boy is....it could be james or sirius or remus etc. Maybe James was telling petunia herself about dementors since she wouldnt know what they are being a muggle.

It may seem far fetched or wrong and I give you guys permission to laugh at the theory if you wish :D



Petunia knows alot more then she lets on. when Harry says thats voldemort is back she whispers "back?" and "looks at him liek she has never looked at him before."

What if Lily and James used to double date with Petunia and ?Peter Pettigrew??

This may sound crazy, I am not really sure of this, I have the image of Aunt Petunia being expelled or not accepted at Hogwarts, something like that because I don't see a reason why she is so angry, I mean what happened to her that she is like that? Say whatever you want to me but I was only guessing.

On the JKR.com poll, it says that Dumbledore's last was not his first, and that Petunia and Dumbledore had been sending letters to one another before. What could these letters have been about? And what impact will they have on book 6 and 7? I suppose it must be signifigant to them...quite signifigant.
I believe you may be referring to the note(s) that Dumbledore sent Petunia when she was considering kicking Harry out of the house. In OotP, Dumbledore tells Harry that he had to send Petunia reminders every so often to tell her that keeping Harry would include some risks, but she had sealed the pact when she took him in, so her actual house and family were protected (I'm assuming they made either Aunt Petunia or Dumbledore the Secret-Keeper for the house, if there is a Secret-Keeper?)

Okay first things first--This is an incredible piede of news. It'll take forever (or at least until Book 6) to piece it all together. "My last" IS referring to the doorstep letter and in spite of the fact that Dumbledo9re knows the Durselys make decisions as a couple, I think it's safe to assume tha when he left "them" a letter explainng oeverything he really left it for Petunia, knowing that Vernon would hear about it.

Now--Petunia is a Muggle--not a squib, not a failed witch--a Muggle. From her physical description, I'd put her in her early 30s when our story opens so she's about a decade older than her sister (maybe a little less). Confirmation that the Marauders and enemies & spouse were all 22 when the cataclysmic Halloween events happened throws a wrench (or could) into what we already know. It raises questions again about "that awful boy." It might have been James but I'd think Lily would know all about dementors in her seventh year. A different houseguest--who?

Also, Lily and Petunia weren't on speaking terms (it's unclear whether this information is from the narrator "they hadn't spoken in several years", or if it's from Vernon's perspective). So, when were Dumbledore's other letters and what did they contain? I don't think they were about the Prophecy, that information, the bargain--etc. seems to be communi9cated in that last letter.

Why should everyone know all about the dementors by their seventh year? Harry has had 5 years of DADA and the only reason he knows about them is the hunt for Sirius--they haven't been covered in class that we know of. Maybe Lily wanted more detailed info than is generally available (vague things like "they guard Azkaban" "you don't want to meet one" "they're scary" -- common room gossip).

There was no mention that Lily wouldn't date James in fifth year because she was dating someone else and it is the perfect, non-ego-bruising answer that could have been given by James' best friend.

I find that very fascinating! Ok, JK and other's have made if very clear that Petunia is a pure human, no magic, she's not a squib. But.....I wonder...........Is there more to Petunia than we think? Nah, she's just a meanie, lol. Ok, now to read the posts b4 mine and really think about what JR is implying.

Why should everyone know all about the dementors by their seventh year? Harry has had 5 years of DADA and the only reason he knows about them is the hunt for Sirius--they haven't been covered in class that we know of. Maybe Lily wanted more detailed info than is generally available (vague things like "they guard Azkaban" "you don't want to meet one" "they're scary" -- common room gossip).

There was no mention that Lily wouldn't date James in fifth year because she was dating someone else and it is the perfect, non-ego-bruising answer that could have been given by James' best friend.

Yes, but we dont know how old sh ewas when this so called convo took place...all we know is that she was between 17-22. Now being that age and we know she was in the order, she was really smart, etc shed know about dementors.

yes harry didnt know about them but he was only 13 when he learned of them.


I dont quite understand what you mean by "theres no mention that lily wouldnt date james in fifth year"?

It is a fact that she started dating him in 7th which means she was 17.

yes harry didnt know about them but he was only 13 when he learned of them. But he didn't learn anything from his coursework about them. If Sirius hadn't escaped, Harry still wouldn't know about them.

I dont quite understand what you mean by "theres no mention that lily wouldnt date james in fifth year"?

It is a fact that she started dating him in 7th which means she was 17.
The excuse for Lily turning James down when he asks her to go out with him, according to Sirius is because she thinks he is stuck up. Sirius could have said, "Aw, she won't go out with you because she's seeing so-and-so."

how do you know Harry wouldnt know about them if sirius hadnt escaped? Yes there hadnt been anything on them in course work but im sure most witches and wizards would know of them by the time they are 17/18

Perhaps we should keep it really simple. The Dursley's have never been about anyone but themselves. I would guess that Dumbledore sent some letters to Petunia explaining that Voldemort would want to come after them. The only way the Dursleys could protect the Dursleys would have been to begrudgingly accept Harry into their home.

I'm guessing DD simultaneously sent letters to the Dursley's and the Longbottom's prior to Harry's death so they would expect the arrival of an orphaned child.

Well, I would imagine that parents may have used a threatening phrase such as, "If you don't behave, I'll send you to the Dementors at Azkaban!" Not much info there. The question is how much would they know? How much would wizards who are afraid to say a name have the courage to ask? Ron didn't seem to know much about Dementors....

Well, I would imagine that parents may have used a threatening phrase such as, "If you don't behave, I'll send you to the Dementors at Azkaban!" Not much info there. The question is how much would they know? How much would wizards who are afraid to say a name have the courage to ask? Ron didn't seem to know much about Dementors....


lol I like that

"if you dont behave, i'll send you to the dementors" thats cute =)

hmm i was just thinking about the fact that ron didnt know. but for some reason if youre an adult wizard id think ud know of them..hmm i dont know.

Like I said, its just a theory =)

I think that Dumbledore had probably been in contact with Petunia about danger to Lily and the possibility of Harry becoming orphaned. There may have been the possibility of attack on her, and indeed, her parents may have been targeted as well. They could have been killed already which would both increase Petunia's fear and resentment of the wizarding world, but could also explain why she accepted Harry if there was some protection afforded them because of it.

This was what I was wondering. It is confusing why she would be corresponding with DD before Harry was left with her. I keep thinking that maybe she was accepted to Hogwart's and refused to go. Does anyone know if she is younger or older than Lilly?
I believe she is the older sister.
I think that DD had sent her correspondence while Harry was attending Hogwarts. To explain things.

Maybe something happened to Lily's parents and DD was looking after the girls.

But are muggles allowed to be in the order? As far as I know (Or aa far as I'm assuming,) the OOTP is a wizards only thing. Unless Petunia was a spy? :huh:

Well Figgy's in the order, and she's a squib. That's similar to a muggle, except for the fact that she knows way more about the wizarding world seeing as she was born into one. Their help to the order just didn't involve using wands. I think it's possible that Petunia used to be in the order. Now the question is if she was in the order befor, why isn't she in the order anymore?...

I immediately thought of the acceptance letter from hogwarts when i read this answer on JKR's site. I think Petunia is/was a witch, but never got trained, maybe she will be the one learning magic late in life. Because, it seems like even if she had been corresponding with DD just recently b4 that "last" letter, that it wouldnt be as significant, because it would just be stuff about maybe having to take harry if james and lily died. Also, i dont think petunia would have agreed to this if DD had asked her when it wasnt an emergency. i dunno, im not makin a whole lot of sense, but my first reaction was "OMG Petunias a witch!" and that the letter b4 was the one from hogwarts. the only problem with this is that McGonigell writes those letters. oh well maybe dd wrote her trying to convince her to come after she said she wouldnt.

I just thoght of this myself a few minutes ago. I've thought for a while that Petunia is the one who JK was referring to when she said that someone will do magic later in life, but I usually figured that no one knew she could do magic. I figured that Petunia loathed Lily's abilities so much that hers never came out. Now I agree with you that Dumbledore had sent her letters of admission to Hogwarts but she refused to accept that she was "abnormal." I wonder how she managed to avoid going though. Do you think that her parents or Lily knew that Petunia was a whitch?

The only other semi-interesting possibility that I can think of is that mabey DD had sent Petunia letters around the time when Harry was born to inform her that she may soon be responsible for Harry.

Please, folks. JKR said on her website that Petunia is a muggle. A muggle. A muggle.

I think that Dumbledore had probably been in contact with Petunia about danger to Lily and the possibility of Harry becoming orphaned. There may have been the possibility of attack on her, and indeed, her parents may have been targeted as well. They could have been killed already which would both increase Petunia's fear and resentment of the wizarding world, but could also explain why she accepted Harry if there was some protection afforded them because of it.
I agree with you, but from something I read (and ComicBookWorm, you are much better at finding the exact quotes than I am), it sounded like JKR was surprised that people wanted to know about Harry's grandparents. She felt they were unimportant to the story.
It's hard to let go of the idea that the Evans' were involved with one of the three defiances of Voldemort by Harry's parents though....

All so confusing!!! lol

That's a good theory TravDogg, but if I remember right, Harry's acceptance letter to Hogwarts was sent to him by McGonnagal.

I agree with you, but from something I read (and ComicBookWorm, you are much better at finding the exact quotes than I am), it sounded like JKR was surprised that people wanted to know about Harry's grandparents. She felt they were unimportant to the story.
It's hard to let go of the idea that the Evans' were involved with one of the three defiances of Voldemort by Harry's parents though....
I'm feeling lazy right now, so I'll try to find the quote later (I've got to go out and run an errand. :) ) It almost sounded like JKR wanted to get off the question based on how quickly she dealt with it.

I'm feeling lazy right now, so I'll try to find the quote later (I've got to go out and run an errand. :) ) It almost sounded like JKR wanted to get off the question based on how quickly she dealt with it.
Whew, at least that's some corroboration--I didn't imagine it!

At the moment it is taking a while for me to get onto the site but did JKR say how long before he did right the letter, in other words did he know what was about to happen on that night days before hand to send the letter off to Hogwarts.
This is the answer she gave word for word:

What did Dumbledore's Howler to Aunt Petunia mean? ('Remember my last'?)
Well, it is a relief to move on after the Mark Evans fiasco. This time, two out of the three poll questions had interesting answers (or so I think) and thank goodness you chose one of them.

So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys' doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that…

Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I'll be watching…

i definately think she was in the order and she knew figgy maybe shes a squib too!

and elpeuaan u have to be in 3rd year to have avatars

i definately think she was in the order and she knew figgy maybe shes a squib too!
Petunia may have been in the order.....but she's not a Squib according to JKR.

Why does everyone think Petunia was in the original Order? I just can't see what role she would/could fulfill. Mrs. Figg's role is to watch Harry (and probably the Dursley household in general)--very important task. If Dumbledore hasn't sent any letters to Petunia since the doorstep one, she isn't in close cahoots with him, is she? Why would the Order need a Muggle with Petunia's personality (or any Muggle, for that matter)?

I'm new here, so bear with me, but this is my take: Petunia is magical: a witch. Petunia is older than Lily; wizards/witches do genuinely freak her out so when she got her letter from Hogwarts she hid it. Of course, Dumbledore would wonder why anyone wouldn't take up the offer and go to Hogwarts. Flash forward several years: Lily gets her letter and goes, Petunia is slightly regretful but still not willing to go. Flash forward many years: Petunia is now jealous, bitter, but still a bit skittish. She fakes everything around Vernon. This is why she knows about Azkaban and is the "more to her character" that JKR talks about.

I do think that Petunia was a lot more involved in the wizarding world then she says she was. She says she knew about the dementors because she heard James tell Lily years ago (pg. 31 ootp), I always thought that meant she just had a good memory or something. Maybe she had first hand experience with them? I think now that it is safe to say she knows a lot more then she says she dose about magic. I also think that it is possible (like some people have said before) that she knew about and may have been somehow involved in the order. But she could not help the order as much as Lily and was properly not told much information because she was a muggle (this may have made her even more jealous of Lily). Now that I think about it, if she knew DD I wonder if she knew the HBP.

Um, JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle (therefore not a witch who burned her Hogwarts letter to hide the shame of it all--she didn't get one).

petunia is a muggle not a squib... but because she had a sister that was a witch that is how she knows all this stuff about the wizerding world b/c while living in her parents house she was around it. but once she was married she tried to rid her-self of any knowledge b/c of vernon.

petunia is a muggle not a squib... but because she had a sister that was a witch that is how she knows all this stuff about the wizerding world b/c while living in her parents house she was around it. but once she was married she tried to rid her-self of any knowledge b/c of vernon.
Do you think Vernon was worth it? lol

not really but hey u cant really help who u fall in love with. lol

really i think she got with him b/c he knew nothing of the wizarding world and thats the life she wanted....(having nothing to do with it) but when lily and james died she had to clue vernon in a little on her "family".

Maybe something happened to Lily's parents and DD was looking after the girls.

I agree. Lily's parents were alive when she got her letter to Hogwarts at 11. But both parents (and all other relatives) were dead when Lily died at age 22.

During that 11 year period - Lily's parents died. It had to be an untimely death. They couldn't have been that old - probably late 40s, early 50s.

What if Lily and Petunia's parents died when they were both still school age children? Who would have taken them in?

My other theory is that Lily's parents died around the same time Lily did.

"You're scared for yourself, and your family, and your friends. Every week, news comes of more deaths, more disappearances, more torturing...the Ministry of Magic's in disarray, they don't know what to do, they're trying to keep everything hidden from the Muggles, but meanwhile, Muggles are dying too."

Sirius, GoF pg 527 paperpack[I]

not really but hey u cant really help who u fall in love with. lol

really i think she got with him b/c he knew nothing of the wizarding world and thats the life she wanted....(having nothing to do with it) but when lily and james died she had to clue vernon in a little on her "family".
She had to clue him in before that, he noticed all the odd occurences the morning and afternoon just before Harry was left on the doorstep. He wondered if it had something to do with Petunia's sister.

the way i see it petunia was humiliated by having to tell vernon about lily, and then to keep life as normal as possible she only told vernon what he NEEDED to know not EVERYTHING there was to know. so thats why it came as a shock to everyone that she knew anything about azkaban b/c she never let on that there was anything more to that world other than a magic school.

also if he didnt already know anything about wizards than he would have not made that connection between the murders and oddities. until after harry showed up. thus the dursleys FEAR of wizards b/c that is the only interaction that they have had with the society. one bad experience and they have a... generalization of wixards as being all bad.

the way i see it petunia was humiliated by having to tell vernon about lily, and then to keep life as normal as possible she only told vernon what he NEEDED to know not EVERYTHING there was to know. so thats why it came as a shock to everyone that she knew anything about azkaban b/c she never let on that there was anything more to that world other than a magic school.
I agree, also I think Lily and then James could have been quite close to Petunia until Vernon came along.

i am not so sure b/c also in a backstory on petunia in one of the books it is said that petunia was jelous of how much attention lily got from their parents when lily recieved her letter. i think that it was sibling rivalry for a parents attention that seperated them and i dont think that anything could have changed that.

from chapter 1 ps:

"'A letter?' repeated Professor McGonagall faintly, sitting back down on the wall. 'Really, Dumbledore, you think you can explain all this in a letter? These people will never understand him! He'll be famous - a legend - I wouldn't be surprised if today was known as Harry Potter day in future - there will be books written about Harry - every child in our world will know his name!'

from chapter 4 ps:

"You never told him? Never told him what was in the letter Dumbledore left fer him? I was there! I saw Dumbledore leave it, Dursley! An' you've kept it from him all these years?"


jk is genius. we were thinking before today that perhaps dd and petunia had been conversing by letter (remember my last) after she takes harry into her family, but they had been corresponding BEFORE...now, i agree that it was probably to set up harry coming into their family if/when lily/james died, but was there something else in the correspondence? it seems so, because dd just left a letter to tell the dursleys about harry...as mcgonagall points out, a mere letter isn't going to cut it, unless it's the latest in a series of correspondences.

so does petunia know how to use owl post? can't remember her reactions to the stamp-covered letter fiasco? uncle vernon's reactions i remember.

Here's the quote I promised nickyg about Harry's grandparents. It's from the 2004 World Book Day Chat: Rita: What happend to Harry's grandparents? Will we ever learn about them?
JK Rowling replies -> They're all dead and not particularly important to the story, although you will find out a little bit more. There's two ways to look at this quote. Either the grandparents are unimportant, or JKR didn't want to dwell on it. Why are all his grandparents dead? James's family should be as long-lived as most wizards and at least they should still be alive. James and Lily married young so none of their parents would be all that old.

So I do think that Dumbledore's other letters might have been about other family members like Lily's parents.

Ok...this is what is confusing..If Petunia had been corresponding with Dumbledore about Harry coming to stay with them..then why does she scream when she finds him on their doorstep..unless this is for show..or because she is in shock..finding out that her sister is indeed dead. Like DD told her Harry would come to them if Lily died(?) I don't know..there is something here ..I just can't put my finger on it..I am currently re-reading SS so maybe there are clues there. Vernon was scared to even mention Lily to Petunia and when he did...she got rather angry..but if it is all for show..and she has a very big secret..which I suppose is possible, it could still make sense. I have this feeling that maybe it is not as big I we think it could be. Oh well I wish we knew when the new book was coming out :upset:

I am just rambling...thinking out loud(or at least something like that)

Something's nagging at me about the theory that Dumbledore and Petunia's correspondence before that fateful Halloween night had been about the possibility of Harry coming to live with them. And then I found it.

... not knowing he was famous, not knowing he would be woken in a few hours' time by Mrs. Dursley's scream as she opened the front door to put out the milk bottles.

Does it seem to anyone else that perhaps Petunia was totally shocked at finding a baby on her doorstep? Does that jive with her being "prepared" through her discussions with Dumbledore? Granted, she simply might have been surprised by the fact that it was a "normal" day and she wasn't expecting scar-head to turn up so soon.

But my gut is that the first and most simple explanation is not it. Remember that the "LAST" letter is the only one that told Petunia about the blood/love protection, the reason Harry had to stay with her. Dumbledore points to it specifically with the Howler, which is why he didn't say "Remember my series of letters 15 years ago." It seems the subject of a previous letter or letters would be something other than the details of Harry's new home and the reasons why he must stay.

Also, do we honestly think that if Dumbledore had been talking to Petunia over the course of several letters to "be prepared to take care of your nephew in case your sister and her foolish husband die a violent death" -- that Petunia would still harbor so much bitterness, resentment and jealousy over it? Seems more likely to me that those harsh feelings arose from the sudden obligation she had to fulfill this blood/love protection, and that she didn't have a say-so in it.

Petunia was not in the original order, most definitly. We know that McGonagall was - but she did not know Petunia. You remember how she used the map to find Dursleys, how she studied them for the whole day and what she said to DD afterwards.

No, petunia is just a muggle and never was in the order. What business did DD had with her before? That's fun to speculate, and one of the possibilities is the attempt of reconciliation. He definitely did not contact her AFTER Harry arrived. Petunia did NOT know that Mrs. Figgs was a squib (or she would never let her sit with Harry, and Figgs would not have to make Harry so miserable).

Definitely DD did not write her about intended arrival of Harry, or she won't be so surprised, and DD could have just give Harry to her if there was any kind of communication, no reason to do the whole step stunt. Apparently, there was no contact with Lily for a year before Potters died, and I think we can safely assume that DD did not contact Dursleys during this time either (or they would not be so comfortable in their muggle life). This pushes the timeframe of DD previous letter to the time before Harry's birth.

I have nothing to justify it with, but could it have anything to do with the time and event of the propphecy? Was the Fidelius charm way of protecting Potters the first choice of protection DD came up with? Is it possible that he initially intended to protect Potters with the blood thing (as we witnessed, it was rather efficient) - but Petunia refused to help? Apparently, DD did not have any problems finding Dursleys, is it possible that he already been there, setting the protection that was not required? That is, untill Lily gave her life for Harry and tied the blood connection that Petunia could no longer refuse?

I have nothing to justify it with, but could it have anything to do with the time and event of the propphecy? Was the Fidelius charm way of protecting Potters the first choice of protection DD came up with? Is it possible that he initially intended to protect Potters with the blood thing (as we witnessed, it was rather efficient) - but Petunia refused to help? Apparently, DD did not have any problems finding Dursleys, is it possible that he already been there, setting the protection that was not required? That is, untill Lily gave her life for Harry and tied the blood connection that Petunia could no longer refuse?

Oooh, now that's interesting. It would certainly explain Petunia's bitterness, hostility, jealousy and *cough*Guilt?*cough* about all things related to Harry. Did anybody else sense this when she changed her mind? Certainly if she had been a reluctant but willing participant in the Protect-Harry Plan, she wouldn't have so readily agreed with Vernon to throw him out. But if the same ancient magic that protects Harry also binds Petunia somehow to comply -- or even if she just complies because she feels in some way responsible for her sister's death -- well that would be very interesting.

I was also thinking about the issue of the letters and why Petunia screamed when finding the baby on her doorstep (not a usual response, surely?).

Why scream, unless she immediately knew that the baby being there meant that her sister was dead. Even though Petunia and Lily weren't getting along, they were sisters, after all. So Petunia may have been screaming in shocked realisation that her sister was dead. Indeed, when DD heard the prophesy the Potters went into hiding in Godrick's Hollow supposedly protected by charms. However DD might have informed Petunia of the danger her sister and brother-in-law were facing.

The baby being left on her doorstep would have been the confirmation of her worst fears for her sister.

Andos

was petunia a witch and maybe she done something wrong and got her wand broken and now left the wizard world to be brought back in it once again by harry

But, on another level, I think the powers may not have been transferred, but shared...which explains the mental link between Harry and LV. Which would explain the prophecy, that neither of them can be fully whole until the other dies because of this sharing.


Now there's an interesting idea.....VM's power is shared with Harry thru the scar. Of course, Harry has powers of his own as well. I've always thought that when VM is vanquished, Harry's scar will disappear.

Note to willi: Harry does have magical blood, from both his parents. Also, JKR has stated (interview or website, can't recall) that Harry is considered a half-blood by Malfoy etc., because one of Lily's grandparents was not pureblood.

BTW, the car wreck was both plausible and believable to the muggle world. I could imagine the Dursleys telling this story so often they half-believed it.

What else could they tell Harry?

He was being raised in the non magical world and attending a muggle school. There's no way they could ever have told Harry the truth about his parents. Imagine what would have happened when the school teachers contacted Petunia to tell her that her "delusional" nephew was claiming his parents were witches who were murdered by a powerful wizard?


Note to willi: Harry does have magical blood, from both his parents. Also, JKR has stated (interview or website, can't recall) that Harry is considered a half-blood by Malfoy etc., because one of Lily's grandparents was not pureblood.

I know he does. It was a rhetorical question in response to a previous post.

I have nothing to justify it with, but could it have anything to do with the time and event of the propphecy? Was the Fidelius charm way of protecting Potters the first choice of protection DD came up with? Is it possible that he initially intended to protect Potters with the blood thing (as we witnessed, it was rather efficient) - but Petunia refused to help? Apparently, DD did not have any problems finding Dursleys, is it possible that he already been there, setting the protection that was not required? That is, untill Lily gave her life for Harry and tied the blood connection that Petunia could no longer refuse?

The blood protection could not have been considered first.....it was Lily's sacrifice of her life thru her love of Harry that created the protection in the first place. DD set it up by delivering Harry to Petunia's doorstep, and by accepting him into her home, Petunia sealed the charm.

I haven't read every post in this thread, so I apologize if this has been said already. I think that Dumbledore was corresponding with Petunia to inform her of the progress of the first war. Until Voldemort attacked the Potters, no one knew which boy the prophecy was referring to. Therefore, since Petunia would be Harry's last blood family, Voldemort did what he felt the need to in order to to ensure that even if Harry's magical guardians were taken away, Harry would still be safe should he be the boy in the prophecy.

Also, I think there should be a support group for those unwilling to accept that Petunia is a muggle and nothing more. Really, Petunia is a muggle, and that's ok because J.K. Rowling says so. Posting that she is a witch or a squib or a half-blood is not going to make her any less muggle.

Ok, I will wade in here with my thoughts.

1) Petunia knows more about magic than she wants to.
2) Petunia knows about dementors
3) Petunia did accept Harry and "sealed" the protection.
4)Lily and Petunia's parents are dead. -

What if the dementors killed them? What if Petunia was also attacked by the dementors, but not killed? SO....... Harry's protection extends to anyone of Lily's blood ie.. the protection extends to Petunia and Dudley as well as Harry. - Petunia agreed to accept Harry in order to gain the protection for herself and her own son.

Petunia knows what the dementors can do, knows what LV can do (if he's back) and when reminded by DD of the protection, KNOWS that she can't allow Dursley to kick Harry out of the house. Now, more than before, she and Dudley NEED that protection.

Petunia accepted Harry grudingly, in order to get the protection that came with him. Perhaps she and Dursley believed that if they could avoid any contact with magic, but keep Harry with them, they would be safe from any further exposure to the danger of magic?

Can anybody see any problems with this chain of thought??

Ok, I will wade in here with my thoughts.

1) Petunia knows more about magic than she wants to.
2) Petunia knows about dementors
3) Petunia did accept Harry and "sealed" the protection.
4)Lily and Petunia's parents are dead. -

What if the dementors killed them? What if Petunia was also attacked by the dementors, but not killed? SO....... Harry's protection extends to anyone of Lily's blood ie.. the protection extends to Petunia and Dudley as well as Harry. - Petunia agreed to accept Harry in order to gain the protection for herself and her own son.

Dementors don't kill; they kiss. They leave people worse than dead. I also don't see how it would extend to Dudley. Dudley isn't Lily's blood the way Petunia is. Petunia knew about the dementors because she heard "that awful boy telling her about them" years ago. I don't see why Petunia would be afraid of creatures she had never encountered the way your theory suggests. The dementors don't just wander around muggle neighborhoods looking for someone to attack. If Harry's protection extended to anyone of Lily's blood, that would only be Petunia.

Petunia knows what the dementors can do, knows what LV can do (if he's back) and when reminded by DD of the protection, KNOWS that she can't allow Dursley to kick Harry out of the house. Now, more than before, she and Dudley NEED that protection.

Petunia accepted Harry grudingly, in order to get the protection that came with him. Perhaps she and Dursley believed that if they could avoid any contact with magic, but keep Harry with them, they would be safe from any further exposure to the danger of magic?

Can anybody see any problems with this chain of thought??


Vernon doesn't know anything about the protection. He's all set to kick Harry out of the house, and when Petunia says he can't, Vernon doesn't understand. Petunia also doesn't explain. So, up until Order of the Phoenix at least, Vernon has no clue what Petunia's true motives for allowing Harry to live with them are.

Petunia probably is getting something in return for keeping Harry, but I don't think it has anything to do with the dementors in the way you've suggested. However, I think it's possible that Petunia might be protected from some evil magical force in return for allowing Harry to be protected by the blood she shares with Lily.

The blood protection could not have been considered first.....it was Lily's sacrifice of her life thru her love of Harry that created the protection in the first place. DD set it up by delivering Harry to Petunia's doorstep, and by accepting him into her home, Petunia sealed the charm.
Not quite true. Yes, the initial protection of Harry's was by Lily's sacrifice. But DD has built on it, and perhaps around it. Lily's protection was against LV ONLY! he could not touch Harry in Quirrel's body, while thoroughly evil Crouch Jr., and Quirrell before posession could touch him no problem.

That protection was overcome when LV used Harry's blood to restore himself. But the Harry's protection through Petunia is still here, and protects Harry from any serious danger, including Vernon and maybe herself. DD seemed to imply that Harry's protection comes mostly from Lily, but I think he is too modest. No way Lily had time or presence of mind to set a back-up plan so complex.

Besides, there are other indications of DD preparing the house, not Petunia. Remember Put-outer? Why was it used? What, a wizard like DD needs a toy like that ONLY to make it dark? I do not believe it. Something was done to increase Harry's safety, without participation of Petunia or Lily. Same thing was repeated to prepare Black's house for Harry's arrival, and it was specified that put-outer was borrowed from DD for the occasion. I take it, it is not a common tool, if Moody did not have one of his own.

What I mean, is that the protection that Lily gave Harry was extremely powerfull, enough to repell AK, but very specific and LV found a way around it. DD USED it, but we do not know how. Many think that he expanded the protection only, but that can not be because blood transfer did not compromise whatever protection Harry has at Dursley's. I believe that DD did not expand the protection Lily gave, he used it to forge the connection between Harry and Petunia, and to ancor his own protection there. Perhaps he could not do it before, while Petunia refused to help Lily in trouble she did not understand or believed, but eventually Lily's sacrificeturned Petunia around, however reluctantly.

No way Lily had time or presence of mind to set a back-up plan so complex.

I disagree. We don't know what James and Lily knew when they went into hiding, but look at the precautions they took. They didn't just sit around, hoping that Voldemort wouldn't find them. They hid, and set up the Fedelius Charm and even that wasn't as simple as it seemed. They chose someone they knew would die before betraying them, and then they covertly switched secret keepers as an added layer of protection. I highly doubt that they just sat around thinking "There's no way Voldemort will get to us now" because not only their lives, but their son's life, was at stake.

In the moment when she first heard that Voldemort was at their home, Lily probably wouldn't have thought "If I allow Voldemort to kill me now, Harry can go live with Petunia and be protected by my blood" but I think she had thought of it in advance. How else would Dumbledore know what Lily had done? Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get Harry and take him to the Dursleys. This wasn't just a last minute thing because McGonagall knew about it. She was waiting for Dumbledore all day. How did Dumbledore know it wasn't James who died protecting Harry in the same way that Lily did? It would still have been the love of a parent that saved Harry.

It can be argued that begging and pleading wasn't James' style, and I agree. However, loving parents will do whatever it takes to save their child. James protected Harry in a way differant than Lily.

I think that Lily, whose wand was good for charms, probably thought of what would happen if Voldemort somehow got past the barriers she and James had set up and might have set up even more protection that was not common knowledge. She might have cast a charm on Harry during a time when the Potters were not under attack as they were at Godric's Hollow. She might have also discussed her intentions with Dumbledore, as he acted quickly in delivering Harry to Petunia and Vernon. I don't know if Lily thought that Harry would end up with the Dursleys, but Dumbledore could have very well thought of Petunia when he heard of Lily's intentions.

I think that because of Lily Petunia knows more about the wizard world then she lets on. DD I'm sure has had a hand in Petunia keeping HP all these years. DD & Petunia have some agreement or understanding. I do think that the truth will come out in books 6 & 7. JKR says that there will be more answers than questions in the last 2 books.

I completley agree with you. I feel that DD and Petunia have an agreement as he sent her the howler when she nearly threw Harry out of her house. She knows more than she lets on and is probably to asamed to admit it. I think that there will be some form of reverlation about this in book 6 or 7. She is hiding something definatley!!! :evil:

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl
The blood protection could not have been considered first.....it was Lily's sacrifice of her life thru her love of Harry that created the protection in the first place. DD set it up by delivering Harry to Petunia's doorstep, and by accepting him into her home, Petunia sealed the charm.

I have to disagree with this also. I've argued for a long time that Lily knew exactly what she planned to do if and when LV showed up. Think of it this way.... if you knew the most powerful dark wizard was after your child, would you simply be satisfied with being in hiding? I wouldn't! I'd want to have a back up plan, or two of three. With the life of my child on the line, I'd have as many plans as possible in mind to protect my child. Hiding would NOT be enough. That's why I think Lily planned ahead of time to make the sacrafice she did. I do not think James knew what she planned to do. I do think Lily discussed her plan with DD, which is how he knew exactly what she did the night she died (sacraficed herself), and how to seal the ancient magic she performed. If he didn't know what Lily did, how would he know that Lily sacraficed herself and didn't simply get killed in Harry's room? Fact is, after the Potters were killed, DD sent Hagrid to get Harry and he sealed the protection Lily left upon Harry. If Lily's sacrafice was planned ahead of time, it doesn't take away from the significance of the fact she died for her child, which is what a lot of people seem to think. I'd argue it makes her sacrafice more significant, as it must've been heartbreaking for her to know ahead of time she'd die and her son would grow up without a mother, or parents. I'd guess that almost ANY parent in the world would die for their child, but to know ahead of time that will be the case -- that's pretty significant.

Back to Petunia. I do like the idea that DD and her were in contact regarding the war. Given that we KNOW Harry's grandparents are dead, it's highly possible that they died in the war. That very well would make Petunia fear for her family's safety, and her own as well. If DD wrote to her before hand about Harry possibly coming to live with them should something happen to the Potters, it's quite likely that her 'scream of shock' wasn't at the fact that Harry was on the doorstep, but because she knew that her sister was dead.

Let's think of this... Petunia knows about the wizarding world (LV, dementors, etc). Possibly her parents were killed by LV (or his minions). Her sister and husband definitely were killed by LV. Petunia hates the magic world (or so she says). If you were Petunia and found baby Harry on your doorstep, would you accept him in knowing the dangers? Or, would it be more likely that you'd take him in if you knew that your family would be protected in some way with Harry's presence. There had to be something VERY heavy in that letter that would make Petunia accept Harry into her home. I don't think that she simply took in Harry to save his life, I think there was something in it for her (protection).

There were letters before that. Plural letters. Lots of letters? Were Dumbledore and Petunia in frequent correspondence?

If they were, that means Petunia was keeping a BIG secret from Vernon.

It also means Vernon's belief that Petunia tried to pretend she didn't even have a sister was wrong. Far from trying to cut all ties with the wizarding world, Petunia was getting letters from one of the biggest wizards around and keeping it secret from Vernon.

It means her scream at the sight of Harry may have had more to do with knowing just what this meant. Harry would only have been there if her sister was dead.

It also raises a big question. Why did Dumbledore stop writing to Petunia?

The obvious answer is that it has something to do with the protections on Harry, but that seems a little weak. The Ministry has had Harry's address for years, and Lucius and other DEs had plenty of contacts there. Finding Harry shouldn't have been a problem.

Dumbledore has pretended for years that there's no unusual connection between him and Harry. It looks like he started that pretense the day Harry was given to the Dursleys. I don't think we really know why, yet.

And can even Vernon remain completely ignorant of the truth for much longer?

This wasn't just a last minute thing because McGonagall knew about it. She was waiting for Dumbledore all day.No, she didn't. She obviously knew where Dumbledore was going, but she didn't know why. When he told her Harry would be staying at this house, McG was shocked, saying she had been watching them all day and they were the nastiest people, or something like that. But she really didn't know what Dumbledore was doing. Dumbledore wasn't even expecting her to be there (he sees the cat and says, "I should have known" or something). I think the only person in on it was Hagrid, maybe. Sirius wasn't even in on the plan, because he offered to take Harry.


That's why I think Lily planned ahead of time to make the sacrafice she did. I do not think James knew what she planned to do.This would make sense, because if James knew beforehand that Lily was planning to die, he would probably object and insist on saving them both. Harry probably inherited his "saving people" thing from him, and James could not bear to lose Lily, even if it was to give the highest protection to his son. He would do everything possible to save them both. If he had known, he might have gotten in the way of her sacrifice. I could imagine Harry doing that in such a situation... Like father, like son.

Interestingly enough, I was rereading SS (for clues about something totally different), and noticed that owls were definitely around #4 Privet Drive the morning after the attack at Godric's Hollow. The readers follow Vernon to work (more owls outside his office window, but he doesn't see them), maybe owls delivered letters and replies to/from Petunia that day.

Ah, I think I like this explanation! The first mention of owls in SS is on p. 2 -- 'None of them noticed a large, tawny owl flutter past the window' of 4 Privet Drive. This owl may have been delivering the first of many letters from DD to Petunia that day. While at work, Vernon 'didn't see the owls swooping past' his window. Could it be that DD and Petunia were sending owls back and forth all day, while Vernon was at work, with DD telling Petunia what had happened to Lily and James, that she was going to have to take Harry in and Petunia returning owls telling him that no way was she taking him. When Vernon gets home from work, Petunia pretends she has had a perfectly normal day. Was this an act? Why was she not more interested in what Vernon was telling her about owls flying in daylight, shooting stars, funny-looking people in town that day, asking her if she'd heard from her sister, what is their nephew's name? She just stiffens up and doesn't really discuss any of it with Vernon. No owls arrive after Vernon gets home. Did she think she had gotten her way and DD had given up? Is that why she screams when she finds Harry on her doorstep in the morning -- because she thought she talked DD out of bringing him there? Also, it seems weird that after what Vernon tells her about the strange happenings, Petunia doesn't have any trouble getting to sleep that night, while Vernon tosses and turns until he finally decides that even if the Potters were involved, it couldn't affect him and Petunia.

I think your assuming way to much here. DD cant tell the future. Yes he had the prophesy, but he had no idea that LV was going to kill his parents. And had no idea that Lily was going to inact this ancient form of magic, so he couldnt tell Petunia about that. All DD knew was that some boy was going to be marked as LV equal. He had no idea how all the rest was going to play out.

First of all the purpose of these forums is to SPECULATE about how things came about in the books. That's all I'm doing here. I'm SPECULATING that's what a theory is...a SPECULATION.

We know that Dumbledore knew the prophecy, and that it stated "born as the seventh month dies" and there was a phrase "who thrice defied him". Dumbledore isn't a stupid man. He heard this prophecy many years before Harry was born. He kept a close watch on the situation. When it came down to Neville and Harry and their birth dates, I'm sure he knew it would be one of them.

I never said Dumbledore could see the future. What I said was that I agreed with Atherella's theory (another poster on these boards) that Lily may have been a SEER. My THEORY from that idea is that Lily would have talked to Dumbledore especially if she had seen what happened that night in Godric's Hollow before the event took place.

If Lily did indeed talk to Dumbledore, they would have devised a plan to save Harry. This would of course have included where to bring Harry in the event Volermort found them. It makes absolute sense to me thatDumbledore wold contact Petunia with this kind of information. I NEVER said that this is exactly what happened. Again I'm SPECULATING.

You might be interested to read the thread All About Lily; it's an interesting thread. =)

The other thing I'd like to ask is why is everyone else allowed to speculate and form a theory when I am constantly being attacked for mine? Sheesh!

People may want to check out the PS that JKR has added to this question on her website: "It has been suggested that I am wrong in saying that Dumbledore's last letter was the one he left on the doorstep with baby Harry, and that he has sent a letter since then concerning Harry's illegal flight to school. However, both Dumbledore and I differentiate between letters sent to the Dursleys as a couple, and messages directed to Petunia ALONE. And that's my final word on the subject--though I doubt it will be yours :)."

Ah, I think I like this explanation! The first mention of owls in SS is on p. 2 -- 'None of them noticed a large, tawny owl flutter past the window' of 4 Privet Drive. This owl may have been delivering the first of many letters from DD to Petunia that day. While at work, Vernon 'didn't see the owls swooping past' his window. Could it be that DD and Petunia were sending owls back and forth all day, while Vernon was at work, with DD telling Petunia what had happened to Lily and James, that she was going to have to take Harry in and Petunia returning owls telling him that no way was she taking him. When Vernon gets home from work, Petunia pretends she has had a perfectly normal day. Was this an act? Why was she not more interested in what Vernon was telling her about owls flying in daylight, shooting stars, funny-looking people in town that day, asking her if she'd heard from her sister, what is their nephew's name? She just stiffens up and doesn't really discuss any of it with Vernon. No owls arrive after Vernon gets home. Did she think she had gotten her way and DD had given up? Is that why she screams when she finds Harry on her doorstep in the morning -- because she thought she talked DD out of bringing him there? Also, it seems weird that after what Vernon tells her about the strange happenings, Petunia doesn't have any trouble getting to sleep that night, while Vernon tosses and turns until he finally decides that even if the Potters were involved, it couldn't affect him and Petunia.I like your theroy, except I dissagree with the first owl- I think that one was going to Mrs. Figg. She did say in OOTP chap. 2 (no book, so nothing's exact) that DD told her to watch over Harry and make sure that he stayed out of (magicall) trouble w/o i nterfeering in his life. SO one of the owls went to the only magical being aroung - even if she is a squib.

Petunia left the house with Dudley screaming for sweets (during the day before Harry was left on the doorstep)--was she going shopping (for sweets) or was she getting out of the house to avoid owls? On her way to visit Mrs. Figg? At least one owl flew past a window at Privet Drive before Vernon left for work....Awfully close to their house when no other w's are registered as living near #4....

Awfully low for an owl to be flying when he needs to travel a couple more blocks....

All I'm saying is that somtime during the day that Mrs. Figg got a letter from dumbledore (she is part of the "old crowd") saying that Harry was coming to stay at #4. Petunia got more than one letter, because 'last' implies a 'first', but Mrs. Figg got one too.

The flying car letter would have been addressed to Vernon and Petunia, as Harry's guardians. The letter that came to Petunia in the kitchen in OoTP was addressed only to Petunia. Does that mean that the letter Dumbledore left on the door step with Harry that night was addressed to Petunia only, also? I think JKR thought out her answer before she posted it, and she meant exactly what she said.

Based on JKR's statement, I guess the letter left on the door step with Harry was addressed to only Petunia.

I was right. That's once. :D

All I'm saying is that somtime during the day that Mrs. Figg got a letter from dumbledore (she is part of the "old crowd") saying that Harry was coming to stay at #4. Petunia got more than one letter, because 'last' implies a 'first', but Mrs. Figg got one too.

I hadn't thought of it before reading this thread, but I agree that Mrs. Figg would have also received a letter from Dumbledore.

Based on JKR's statement, I guess the letter left on the door step with Harry was addressed to only Petunia.

I was right. That's once. :D



I hadn't thought of it before reading this thread, but I agree that Mrs. Figg would have also received a letter from Dumbledore.
For me, it's still a problem because Dumbledore said he wrote the letter left on the doorstep to "them", meaning the Dursley couple. Best explanation I can currently come up with for the (remaining) discrepancy is that DD neglected to mention an additional letter or special page of the letter that was only for Petunia's eyes.

For me, it's still a problem because Dumbledore said he wrote the letter left on the doorstep to "them", meaning the Dursley couple. Best explanation I can currently come up with for the (remaining) discrepancy is that DD neglected to mention an additional letter or special page of the letter that was only for Petunia's eyes.

Or the word "them" was misused by Dumbledore, and he really meant "her". I'll have to find my book and look up exactly what he said.

I have to disagree with this also. I've argued for a long time that Lily knew exactly what she planned to do if and when LV showed up. Think of it this way.... if you knew the most powerful dark wizard was after your child, would you simply be satisfied with being in hiding? I wouldn't! I'd want to have a back up plan, or two of three. With the life of my child on the line, I'd have as many plans as possible in mind to protect my child. Hiding would NOT be enough. That's why I think Lily planned ahead of time to make the sacrafice she did. I do not think James knew what she planned to do. I do think Lily discussed her plan with DD, which is how he knew exactly what she did the night she died (sacraficed herself), and how to seal the ancient magic she performed. If he didn't know what Lily did, how would he know that Lily sacraficed herself and didn't simply get killed in Harry's room? Fact is, after the Potters were killed, DD sent Hagrid to get Harry and he sealed the protection Lily left upon Harry. If Lily's sacrafice was planned ahead of time, it doesn't take away from the significance of the fact she died for her child, which is what a lot of people seem to think. I'd argue it makes her sacrafice more significant, as it must've been heartbreaking for her to know ahead of time she'd die and her son would grow up without a mother, or parents. I'd guess that almost ANY parent in the world would die for their child, but to know ahead of time that will be the case -- that's pretty significant.

Back to Petunia. I do like the idea that DD and her were in contact regarding the war. Given that we KNOW Harry's grandparents are dead, it's highly possible that they died in the war. That very well would make Petunia fear for her family's safety, and her own as well. If DD wrote to her before hand about Harry possibly coming to live with them should something happen to the Potters, it's quite likely that her 'scream of shock' wasn't at the fact that Harry was on the doorstep, but because she knew that her sister was dead.

Let's think of this... Petunia knows about the wizarding world (LV, dementors, etc). Possibly her parents were killed by LV (or his minions). Her sister and husband definitely were killed by LV. Petunia hates the magic world (or so she says). If you were Petunia and found baby Harry on your doorstep, would you accept him in knowing the dangers? Or, would it be more likely that you'd take him in if you knew that your family would be protected in some way with Harry's presence. There had to be something VERY heavy in that letter that would make Petunia accept Harry into her home. I don't think that she simply took in Harry to save his life, I think there was something in it for her (protection).

Exactly! You've said it all! I agree with your assessment. I couldn't have put it better myself.

First of all the purpose of these forums is to SPECULATE about how things came about in the books. That's all I'm doing here. I'm SPECULATING that's what a theory is...a SPECULATION.

We know that Dumbledore knew the prophecy, and that it stated "born as the seventh month dies" and there was a phrase "who thrice defied him". Dumbledore isn't a stupid man. He heard this prophecy many years before Harry was born. He kept a close watch on the situation. When it came down to Neville and Harry and their birth dates, I'm sure he knew it would be one of them.

I never said Dumbledore could see the future. What I said was that I agreed with Atherella's theory (another poster on these boards) that Lily may have been a SEER. My THEORY from that idea is that Lily would have talked to Dumbledore especially if she had seen what happened that night in Godric's Hollow before the event took place.

If Lily did indeed talk to Dumbledore, they would have devised a plan to save Harry. This would of course have included where to bring Harry in the event Volermort found them. It makes absolute sense to me thatDumbledore wold contact Petunia with this kind of information. I NEVER said that this is exactly what happened. Again I'm SPECULATING.

You might be interested to read the thread All About Lily; it's an interesting thread. =)

The other thing I'd like to ask is why is everyone else allowed to speculate and form a theory when I am constantly being attacked for mine? Sheesh!

Don't take it personal...it's not an "attack" as such. It's finding holes in it to show how it could not be true. The more well thought our theories become the more accurate it hopefully reflects the upcoming books. We all want a "Yes! I knew it!" moment.

DD heard the theory "On a cold wet night 16 years ago..." (OotP) which is about a year before Harry was born. We don't know what night it was heard on, but he would have had to wait until the end of July to see which boy had parents that have thrice-defied LV parents. Like you said, he definetely deduced that it was either Neville or Harry. I do believe the theory that Lily and DD discussed their plans in the year leading up to her death to discuss how Harry could be best protected in the event that she and James died.

I think that Lily could be a Seer is interesting, but the only forms of prediction we know are from Trelawney and the centaurs. Trelawney has only ever made 2 accurate prophecies and if it had not been for DD, the eavesdropper, or Harry, they would have gone completely unnoticed. She herself doesn't remember anything. We don't know know much about predictions based on Astrology as introduced by the Centaurs - I think even Firenze said that they've gotten it wrong before.
So if Lily was a Seer, she would have had to "see" in front of someone else, then whatever she saw would need to be relayed back to her. I don't think she necessarily need have seen what was going to happen at Godric's Hollow for her to devise her charm. I'm led to believe that it was DD's idea anyway as he tells Harry this it is the best protection he could give him in OotP.

That is the most plausible theory I've heard so far - that both Lily and DD discussed plan after plan to ensure he lived in the event that she and James died. I'm all for idea that the correspondence between DD and Petunia was in regards to Harry's long term safety. He would need to keep her informed of what was going on and of her importance to the ancient magic charm as without her coopration it wouldn't work. DD would have had to make sure for himself that Petunia wouldn't just dump Harry in an orphanage after he left Harry on the doorstep and as other people have mentioned, Petunia got something out of this and I believe it to be her family's protection.

There's more to be said but I'm way too tired....So Wintersnow, I agree with the majority of your speculation :agree:

Does Petunia like the wizarding world more than she lets on...maybe when she married
dursley she had to put it behind ...and perhaps she's mean to harry only becasue she's being told too?

Things that we know about Petunia:

1. Hates all things magic, including family members. She considers magic a disease, something freakish that needs to be removed from "normal" life.

2. She knows about Hogwarts and the school letters, probably due to Lily going to Hogwarts.

3. She knows about dementors. She claims that she heard it from "that boy" years ago. However, it is impressive that she can recall such casual information from overhearing a casual source from her younger years with such clarity.

4. She knows about Voldemort. Vernon recognizes the name too, but doesn't quite grasp the seriousness of his return as Petunia had.

5. We now know that she has been in communication with DD. So much so that she recognizes the voice in the Howler.

For someone who makes an effort to remove themselves from the wizarding world, she knows plenty about it. I wager that she is an untrained witch. One who either never got accepted into Hogwarts which spawned her hatred towards magic, or got accepted into Hogwarts but rejected it because she considers magic freakish.
As mentiond earlier, DD could have also clued Petunia in on the Voldemort situation after DD heard the prophecy about Harry and LV. However, DD would not have been able to inform her about Lily's protection until after the attack, when the protection went into effect. Until the attack, DD thought that the Fidelius Charm would have been enough.

Things that we know about Petunia:

1. Hates all things magic, including family members. She considers magic a disease, something freakish that needs to be removed from "normal" life.

2. She knows about Hogwarts and the school letters, probably due to Lily going to Hogwarts.

3. She knows about dementors. She claims that she heard it from "that boy" years ago. However, it is impressive that she can recall such casual information from overhearing a casual source from her younger years with such clarity.

4. She knows about Voldemort. Vernon recognizes the name too, but doesn't quite grasp the seriousness of his return as Petunia had.

5. We now know that she has been in communication with DD. So much so that she recognizes the voice in the Howler.

For someone who makes an effort to remove themselves from the wizarding world, she knows plenty about it. I wager that she is an untrained witch. One who either never got accepted into Hogwarts which spawned her hatred towards magic, or got accepted into Hogwarts but rejected it because she considers magic freakish.
As mentiond earlier, DD could have also clued Petunia in on the Voldemort situation after DD heard the prophecy about Harry and LV. However, DD would not have been able to inform her about Lily's protection until after the attack, when the protection went into effect. Until the attack, DD thought that the Fidelius Charm would have been enough.

To save others the trouble, Mel and a few other posters here have said many times through this thread that Petunia is not a witch. This is canon from JKR's site. Nor is she a squib.

I disagree that he would not have been able to inform Petunia about Lily's protection charm. They would not have only relied on the Fidelis charm alone to protect Harry. They would have had several back up plans in case the Fidelis charm did not work to ensure his survival and safety.
I say this because if the greatest Dark wizard of all time was hunting the one person that would destroy him forever, the persons charged with his protection would do everything available in their power to make sure he had the best protection available. Which therefore means, multiple back up plans.
I believe that Dumbledore (maybe Lily too) would have kept Petunia informed of the possibility that she would have to look after Harry in the event that everything else they had planned, failed.

We know that Dumbledore knew the prophecy, and that it stated "born as the seventh month dies" and there was a phrase "who thrice defied him". Dumbledore isn't a stupid man. He heard this prophecy many years before Harry was born. He kept a close watch on the situation. When it came down to Neville and Harry and their birth dates, I'm sure he knew it would be one of them.I agree that Dumbledore knew immediately that he would have to find out which babies the prophecy could be about. But I doubt it was "many years before Harry was born." In fact, I think it may have even been after Harry was born. After all, he was a year old when Voldemort finally found him. Both Voldemort and Dumbledore would want to act immediately after hearing the prophecy. Dumbledore probably found the potential babies before LV did, and was able to work out protection for them. That's how Lily knew she needed to protect Harry. By the time Voldemort found them, protections had already been put in place. Besides, if it had been "many years" lots of babies could have been born as the seventh month dies, and Voldemort would have gone after all of them.

RE: The many owls going back and forth at the beginning of PS/SS
There were hundreds of owls, people. I doubt Dumbledore and Petunia would account for all of them. My understanding was that the owls were all of the wizard world corresponding with each other about the exciting news that the war is over, Voldemort is gone, and he was defeated by an infant. That's definitely something to write home about. There is no reason for us to believe Petunia's reaction to Harry on her doorstep wasn't genuine. It seems people are trying to twist what actually happened into something that fits their theory.


To save others the trouble, Mel and a few other posters here have said many times through this thread that Petunia is not a witch. This is canon from JKR's site. Nor is she a squib.Thank you. I was about to scream.

I agree that Dumbledore knew immediately that he would have to find out which babies the prophecy could be about. But I doubt it was "many years before Harry was born." In fact, I think it may have even been after Harry was born. After all, he was a year old when Voldemort finally found him. Both Voldemort and Dumbledore would want to act immediately after hearing the prophecy. Dumbledore probably found the potential babies before LV did, and was able to work out protection for them. That's how Lily knew she needed to protect Harry. By the time Voldemort found them, protections had already been put in place. Besides, if it had been "many years" lots of babies could have been born as the seventh month dies, and Voldemort would have gone after all of them.

RE: The many owls going back and forth at the beginning of PS/SS
There were hundreds of owls, people. I doubt Dumbledore and Petunia would account for all of them. My understanding was that the owls were all of the wizard world corresponding with each other about the exciting news that the war is over, Voldemort is gone, and he was defeated by an infant. That's definitely something to write home about. There is no reason for us to believe Petunia's reaction to Harry on her doorstep wasn't genuine. It seems people are trying to twist what actually happened into something that fits their theory.


Thank you. I was about to scream.

No worries...I had a feeling you were getting rather exasperated :D

Found the exact quote for when DD first heard the prophecy. I'm quite certain it was before Harry and Neville was born as I stated earlier

"Who heard it?" asked Harry...
"I did," said Dumbledore. On a cold, wet night sixteen years ago, in a room above the Hog's Head inn" (Pg. 740, UK, hardcover)

Harry is 15 during OoTP so he it was heard approximately a year before he was born (unless my math is way off at this time in the morning where I am).
So I believe both Dumbledore and Voldie had to wait to see who the prophecy was most likely to be about before they specific plans could be put in place. I believe that Dumbledore would have taken immediate steps to protect whoever had already thrice defied LV, and (maybe) who was pregnant at the time who's baby was due in July/August. I'm assuming both wizards and muggles have the same pregnancy period although we aren't specifically told this.

That's what I thought about the owls too - just wizards all over celebrating the end of the war and maybe swapping rumours about his downfall.

As it is at the end of the book, Harry is closer to 16 and the prophecy was made perhaps two months before his birth

I am so intrigued by this revelation from JK.
Who would have thought that Petunia of all people would be in correspondence with Dumbledore before James and Lily died (this is what she is saying, right?). I have no idea what they would have had to correspond about if Petunia is indeed the complete, magic-hating muggle she pretends to be. This makes me think that there is more to her outburst about Dementors and Azkaban in Order of the Phoenix than I had though. I assumed there was something there, but this solidifies that assumption and just leaves me dying to know what.

Found the exact quote for when DD first heard the prophecy. I'm quite certain it was before Harry and Neville was born as I stated earlier.Yes, I read your post after I had written that, but my main point was that it was not "many years." I think the July that Harry was born was the first July after they heard the prophecy. So I think almost a year passed, but not a whole year. Otherwise, there would have been other kids besides Neville and Harry who could have fit the prophecy.

As it is at the end of the book, Harry is closer to 16 and the prophecy was made perhaps two months before his birthGood point. :)

I think Petunia was putting on a show for Vernon. I really am starting to think that mabe Petunia has hidden many things other then the letters she recieved. I think Petunia like harry, but has to hide it from everyone else. Sometimes they come to understandings with each other.

I would highly doubt that her parents are alive...back to the familiar "Harry's only living relative" cliche, but I do think you may be right in thinking they may have died at the hands of wizards. It is strange not to have any other living relatives at Harry's age, isn't it...strange, but not impossible.


And don't forget the prophecy. The Potters had already defied Voldemort 3 times before he came for Harry. What happened during those 3 encounters and were James and Lily's families involved (or attacked as payback?)

Things that we know about Petunia:

1. Hates all things magic, including family members. She considers magic a disease, something freakish that needs to be removed from "normal" life.

I think the reason may be addressed in HBP or the 7th book. I think it has to do with how her parents died.


2. She knows about Hogwarts and the school letters, probably due to Lily going to Hogwarts.

Agreed.
According to her own words, her parent showered attention on Lily because she was accepted to Hogwarts. The jealousy Petunia felt transcended the page. Anyone who has a sbling has felt that jealousy at one time or another!


3. She knows about dementors. She claims that she heard it from "that boy" years ago. However, it is impressive that she can recall such casual information from overhearing a casual source from her younger years with such clarity.

To me, this isn't far-fetched at all. With Petunia being jealous of Lily, I can picture her either eavesdropping on Lily's conversations with James or other wizarding types, or hanging on to ever word to learn of her sister's life. I was jealous of my brother, but that didn't stop me from wanting to be a part of his life.


4. She knows about Voldemort. Vernon recognizes the name too, but doesn't quite grasp the seriousness of his return as Petunia had.

It is my theory that Vodermort may have killed Petunia and Lily's parents while looking for the Potters. This would definitely explain Petunia's horror at learning that Voldermort was back. Petunia may have mentioned Voldermort's name to Vernon but maybe not the whole story.


5. We now know that she has been in communication with DD. So much so that she recognizes the voice in the Howler.

This is interesting news indeed. The fact that she recognizes Dumbledore's VOICE seems to signify that she's talked to him In person at some point possibly more than once. She did recognize his voice. Curious hmmm?


For someone who makes an effort to remove themselves from the wizarding world, she knows plenty about it. I wager that she is an untrained witch. One who either never got accepted into Hogwarts which spawned her hatred towards magic, or got accepted into Hogwarts but rejected it because she considers magic freakish.

As has been mentioned many times already, Jo said that Petunia is a muggle but... I believe Petunia will be the "one to come into magic late in life". She knows plenty about the wizarding world because of Lily. I can see Lily coming home for holidays and how her parents would have sat her down and asked for details about her new world. This would have reinforced Petunia's jealousy because here again, Lily received all the attention. After awhile, this kind of jealousy can turn to hatred. I know, because my mother's favorite child was one of my brothers. Parents out there, don't EVER compare your children in front of each other. The pain that causes cuts like a knife. I think I can understand Petunia's jealousy only too well.


As mentiond earlier, DD could have also clued Petunia in on the Voldemort situation after DD heard the prophecy about Harry and LV. However, DD would not have been able to inform her about Lily's protection until after the attack, when the protection went into effect. Until the attack, DD thought that the Fidelius Charm would have been enough.

I disagree with this last statement. I believe Lily and Dumbledore came up with a plan to save Harry shortly after they went into hiding. I don't know any parent that would be irresponsible enough to not have several plans in mind to save their child. How else would he have known to send Hagrid to pick up Harry? Hagrid arrived VERY shortly after the house blew up. Dumbledore seems to have a lot of access to information. I can't wait to find out how!

Yes, I read your post after I had written that, but my main point was that it was not "many years." I think the July that Harry was born was the first July after they heard the prophecy. So I think almost a year passed, but not a whole year. Otherwise, there would have been other kids besides Neville and Harry who could have fit the prophecy.

Er...you misunderstood me. I never said it was "many years" either? I was responding to your statement that you thought the prophecy might have been after Harry was born.
I am in agreeance with you regarding the fact that the prophecy referred to the July immediately following it; which I also believe was approximately a year or so later.

Note to Mel:

You're right of course, it wasn't many years, my bad. I do make mistakes!

I'm going to add my vote that DD was probably communicating with Petunia regarding staying with her as a back-up plan. How much he told her and how long that correspondence lasted is impossible to tell. He could have contacted her as soon as he realized that Harry would be a target and had started making plans with Lily then. He could have also contacted her the day before Harry arrived. Or any time in between. Obviously, he wrote something of significance to Petunia in that last letter left with Harry on the doorstep, either the entire explanation, or maybe just a forceful reminder of her obligation.

Even if DD had prepared her ahead of time for the possibility, she could still have been surprised to see Harry at her door. It seems quite within her character that she had not taken DD's earlier letter(s) seriously, and was surprised to find out that it was all for real. Maybe she was genuinely upset to learn of her sister's death--but that's giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Petunia is just dripping with some not-so-well-hidden emotions. Given what we've seen of her character so far, I don't buy that she took Harry in just out of a long-denied love for her sister. She was jealous of Lily, to be sure, but I suspect there's some guilt there as well, which made her feel obligated to take Harry in. It could also be that she's keeping Harry for her own protection, but without the details on how DD charm to protect Harry works, that can only be a speculation. It's just so obvious though that her anger toward Lily and the wizarding world is her way of avoiding her real emotions (jealousy, guilt, whatever) toward Lily.

Yes the letter was written to "them". It was written to Petunia and Harry when he got old enough. Hagrid asks if Harry had read the letter DD left for HIM. So that would mean there was a letter left for Harry. I have to think the letter was also to only Petunia because it would just freak Vernon out too much.

Just occurred to me that Dumbledore didn't have to send Petunia a ton of letters the day before Harry arrived. He could have apparated into #4 to have a conversation (Petunia says lots of "I won't"s and Dudley learns the word that day) after sending a note to say he would be dropping in....Having MM in cat form outside the house all day and not seeing DD through a window kind of negates the point, though....Then, again, DD can become invisible without a cloak....Hmm.

Yes the letter was written to "them". It was written to Petunia and Harry when he got old enough. Hagrid asks if Harry had read the letter DD left for HIM. So that would mean there was a letter left for Harry. I have to think the letter was also to only Petunia because it would just freak Vernon out too much.

That's it! That's who "them" is. You solved it! :D When he arrived at the hut on the rock and spoke with Harry, Hagrid assumed that Harry had read the letter, as Dumbledore had intended. (I wonder what ever happened to that letter. Did Petunia destroy it? Has Vernon seen and/or read it?)

In the moment when she first heard that Voldemort was at their home, Lily probably wouldn't have thought "If I allow Voldemort to kill me now, Harry can go live with Petunia and be protected by my blood" but I think she had thought of it in advance. How else would Dumbledore know what Lily had done?

I found this quote interesting as it made me wonder if we will see the Priori Incantatem spell again...probably through the pensieve. If Dumbledore somehow had access to Lily's wand after events at godric's Hollow, he would know if she had performed protective spells in this way.

I also have to add something that may result in my getting bombarded by paper aeroplane style memos...

....Petunia is not a witch ( YET...as someone will come into magic later in life, we still cannot discount this possibility. I've always been more curious to know WHY the person didn't aquire magical powers earlier, I think, if it were to be Petunia, this could be very interesting )

....I would also agree with someone who said that Petunia likes Harry - her attempts at protecting him have been misguided, but probably borne out of fear for him and of a world she doesn't fully comprehend - yet.

Feel free to argue with my ideas - I think this is the most interesting discussion we've had on the future storyline for ages!!!

Yes the letter was written to "them". It was written to Petunia and Harry when he got old enough. Hagrid asks if Harry had read the letter DD left for HIM. So that would mean there was a letter left for Harry. I have to think the letter was also to only Petunia because it would just freak Vernon out too much.
Dumbledore said, "His aunt and uncle will be able to explain everything to him when he's older. I've written them a letter."
This occurs well before Hagrid arrives. Hagrid sees DD leave an envelope with baby Harry and has assumed the letter was for Harry. Just MHO.

I also have to add something that may result in my getting bombarded by paper aeroplane style memos...

....Petunia is not a witch ( YET...as someone will come into magic later in life, we still cannot discount this possibility. I've always been more curious to know WHY the person didn't aquire magical powers earlier, I think, if it were to be Petunia, this could be very interesting )

I thought JKR specified that the person who would do magic later in life was someone who would do magic under extraordinary circumstances, not someone who would become magic late in life, or discover late in life that they are a witch/wizard/have magical powers. I assumed it would be a one time deal that this person would do something magical. :huh: (I do think it will be Petunia)

Er...you misunderstood me. I never said it was "many years" either? I was responding to your statement that you thought the prophecy might have been after Harry was born.
I am in agreeance with you regarding the fact that the prophecy referred to the July immediately following it; which I also believe was approximately a year or so later.I know, my original post was responding to winter snow's statement that DD heard the prophecy "many years" before Harry was born. :)


Even if DD had prepared her ahead of time for the possibility, she could still have been surprised to see Harry at her door. It seems quite within her character that she had not taken DD's earlier letter(s) seriously, and was surprised to find out that it was all for real. Maybe she was genuinely upset to learn of her sister's death--but that's giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Petunia is just dripping with some not-so-well-hidden emotions. Given what we've seen of her character so far, I don't buy that she took Harry in just out of a long-denied love for her sister. She was jealous of Lily, to be sure, but I suspect there's some guilt there as well, which made her feel obligated to take Harry in. It could also be that she's keeping Harry for her own protection, but without the details on how DD charm to protect Harry works, that can only be a speculation. It's just so obvious though that her anger toward Lily and the wizarding world is her way of avoiding her real emotions (jealousy, guilt, whatever) toward Lily.Good assessment. :agree: I think their correspondence may have been one-sided - DD to Petunia. I just can't picture Petunia ever using an owl. She probably ignored his letters of explanation hoping DD would just give up, or perhaps she wasn't sure what to do, but when Harry showed up on her doorstep she had to face it. That would account for the scream.

Petunia probably screamed because:

1) She knew that Harry showing up meant Lily was dead.
2) The "war" and the magic world had been brought to her doorstep. Something she has been desperately trying to avoid.
3) Let's face it, it's shocking to find a baby on your doorstep. How would YOU react? Calmly? HA!

Petunia probably screamed because:

1) She knew that Harry showing up meant Lily was dead.
2) The "war" and the magic world had been brought to her doorstep. Something she has been desperately trying to avoid.
3) Let's face it, it's shocking to find a baby on your doorstep. How would YOU react? Calmly? HA!A scream seems to indicate that she had not prepared herself, even if Dumbledore was trying to prepare her. She may have reluctantly agreed to take him in but hoped to God it never happened, because she wanted nothing to do with the magical world.

Never thought I'd read such a good discussion on things like this! (which reminds me, I MUST read in more detail, I miss things)..


I don't see why she'd scream though, she hated Lilly, (or so it seems, maybe it's a case of Fudge to Harry...)

Well I scanned over the theories on this board but I didn't see this one: Dumbledore's first priority is to rid the world of Voldemort and he will do ANYTHING to do so. Pardon my Vulcan, but I believe Dumbledore's mind set is "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

We know from book one that Lily and Petunia hadn't spoken or contacted each other in years. So why is Dumbledore going behind Lily's back and writing to her sister?

In book one Dumbledore seems either callous, complacent, or uncaring that the Potters are dead. If James and Lily were close to him, why the lack of grief? Minerva is sad, and this from the woman who appears cold. But DD just pops a few lemon drops and he's cool. Very strange.

Throughout the books Dumbledore allows Harry to wander freely, experiencing things, bending the rules, etc. DD gives back the invisiblity cloak a few times, almost encouraging Harry to push the envelope. In book four DD is pleased that Voldemort can touch Harry. Bizzare, don't you think?

There are a number of subtleties that have yet to be answered or even asked. Why didn't Sirius get a trial? Isn't it weird that the people attacked after Voldemort fell were the Longbottoms? Who was the Longbottom's secret keeper? Why couldn't Dumbledore insist that Harry be pulled from the Triwizard? Can you really not change the rules to a stupid game? And why, why oh why, would Dumbledore be writing Petunia, who has distanced herself from the wizarding world?

Well it's like I said. He'll do anything to defeat Voldemort. Now it depends on how you look at this issue. Dumbeldore could be seen as noble for trying to defend his world, but at what cost?

Was Dumbledore planning and prepping for Lily and James's death? Weird that he would insist on being their secret keeper... weird that he didn't even talk to Sirius afterward. There really is no good reason for DD to talk to Petunia unless he had future plans including her. DD knew that one boy would be the One, he didn't know which. Strange that both boys had a similar fate. Was Dumbledore narrowing it down, forcing Voldemort to make a choice?

Sirius Black was a wrench in DD's plans. Sirius could've easily explained what happened and forensic evidence would've backed his story. But Sirius wasn't a blood relation and couldn't garuntee Harry's life. Oh sure, Sirius would fight tooth and nail before Harry was killed, but he wasn't a blood relation. So Sirius was thrown out of the picture. Dumbledore never fought for Sirius's freedom after he learned the truth, though he had a year (book four) of good crediblity. Now Sirius is dead and DD has slid into the position he needs: Harry's older confidant.

I know this all seems extreme. Some of you are probably out there shaking your heads thinking I'm completely insane... But isn't it strange? Dumbledore is a human being and he wants Voldemort gone. But he won't kill him or even try. DD knows that only Harry can do the job and he's prepping him for it. Sirius was a father figure, so his sacrafice for Harry was useless. James already filled that position. If Molly were to die for Harry it would also be useless. A mother's sacrafice has already been paid. Only the sacrafice of a friend and of a lover remain. Harry must be in love, be loved, and have love for a friend and a lover to defeat Voldemort. So Harry's close friends are very safe, for now.

Kinda shifty, ain't it? Am I being extreme? You bet I am. But something about Dumbledore isn't right. He's dedicated to kill Voldemort, and he's going to do it through Harry.

lol, yeah wouldnt be very calm about it your right. and if DD was saying in the letters this would happen if lily died it would have been even more shocking. i also dont think vernon did no about it eitheir as he seemed do shocked when she got the howler and he didnt no what was ment by 'my last'. or at least he thought all this coresponding with wizard was over.

Originally posted by nickyg
I thought JKR specified that the person who would do magic later in life was someone who would do magic under extraordinary circumstances, not someone who would become magic late in life, or discover late in life that they are a witch/wizard/have magical powers. I assumed it would be a one time deal that this person would do something magical. (I do think it will be Petunia)

Direct hit by paper aeroplane!!
Good point though, nicky - do you have a link to this quote, I'd be interested to read further...

True, DD has looked a tad too calm over it all, mind you, that's his personality really isn't it? Imagine what Hogwarts'd be like in OOTP if he was desperatly needed.... :upset: :td:

I don't see why she'd scream though, she hated Lilly, (or so it seems, maybe it's a case of Fudge to Harry...)

What do you expect her to do/say? "WoooHoo!! Lily's dead! YESSSS!!"

Whether she hated her or not, Harry showing up on her doorstep is still a major shock. After received letters from Dumbledore, Petunia was probably fully aware that a heap of trouble just showed up on her doorstep.

Direct hit by paper aeroplane!!
Good point though, nicky - do you have a link to this quote, I'd be interested to read further...

I'm not nicky, but is this what you're looking for?

Barnes and Noble Interview
March 1999
In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.

http://www.twwn.net/JKR2.shtml

Don't take it personal...it's not an "attack" as such. It's finding holes in it to show how it could not be true. The more well thought our theories become the more accurate it hopefully reflects the upcoming books. We all want a "Yes! I knew it!" moment.

DD heard the theory "On a cold wet night 16 years ago..." (OotP) which is about a year before Harry was born. We don't know what night it was heard on, but he would have had to wait until the end of July to see which boy had parents that have thrice-defied LV parents. Like you said, he definetely deduced that it was either Neville or Harry. I do believe the theory that Lily and DD discussed their plans in the year leading up to her death to discuss how Harry could be best protected in the event that she and James died.

I think that Lily could be a Seer is interesting, but the only forms of prediction we know are from Trelawney and the centaurs. Trelawney has only ever made 2 accurate .edu/prophecies and if it had not been for DD, the eavesdropper, or Harry, they would have gone completely unnoticed. She herself doesn't remember anything. We don't know know much about predictions based on Astrology as introduced by the Centaurs - I think even Firenze said that they've gotten it wrong before.
So if Lily was a Seer, she would have had to "see" in front of someone else, then whatever she saw would need to be relayed back to her. I don't think she necessarily need have seen what was going to happen at Godric's Hollow for her to devise her charm. I'm led to believe that it was DD's idea anyway as he tells Harry this it is the best protection he could give him in OotP.

That is the most plausible theory I've heard so far - that both Lily and DD discussed plan after plan to ensure he lived in the event that she and James died. I'm all for idea that the correspondence between DD and Petunia was in regards to Harry's long term safety. He would need to keep her informed of what was going on and of her importance to the ancient magic charm as without her coopration it wouldn't work. DD would have had to make sure for himself that Petunia wouldn't just dump Harry in an orphanage after he left Harry on the doorstep and as other people have mentioned, Petunia got something out of this and I believe it to be her family's protection.

There's more to be said but I'm way too tired....So Wintersnow, I agree with the majority of your speculation :agree:

Okay, I was wrong about when the prophecy was heard. I owned up to that with Mel.

My thoughts on Trelawney are that she's basically a fraud "but for" the two prophecies she predicted. Trelawney is not a "true Seer" as her ancestor Cassandra Trelawney was. My thought is that as Sybil is not a "true Seer" then we only know what happens when she reveals a prophecy. We don't know what happens when a "true Seer" reveals a prophecy. The canon evidence you speak of ONLY covers Sybil Trelawney herself. It may be rue that all Seers go into a trance, but until Jo tells us otherwise, I"ll THEORIZE that a "True Seer" remembers their words. After all, according to canon true Seers are very rare. In my mind , that proposes that they have a good deal of power and learn how to "channel" the information. I'm not saying this is canon fact, I'm just thinking about how the almond-shaped green eyes will be tied up in the story.

If Lily is a Seer and doesn't remember the predictions, maybe she had one in front of Dumbledore that related to that night in Godric's Hollow. There are a few possibilities as to how this could work.

I still like the theory that Lily may have been a Seer. It makes a great deal of sense to me. Which by the way is NOT my theory. Jo did say there was going to be a major revelation about Lily in book 7. I think this would be a great direction to go with the storyline.

Well I scanned over the theories on this board but I didn't see this one: Dumbledore's first priority is to rid the world of Voldemort and he will do ANYTHING to do so. Pardon my Vulcan, but I believe Dumbledore's mind set is "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."If that were the case he would have told Harry about his fate when he should have, instead of waiting all these years to spare him the pain.

We know from book one that Lily and Petunia hadn't spoken or contacted each other in years. So why is Dumbledore going behind Lily's back and writing to her sister? Most likely Lily knew about any correspondance. It wouldn't make sense for him to do it behind her back, and there's no evidence.

In book one Dumbledore seems either callous, complacent, or uncaring that the Potters are dead. If James and Lily were close to him, why the lack of grief? Minerva is sad, and this from the woman who appears cold. But DD just pops a few lemon drops and he's cool. Very strange.He did care. He just had a job to do and needed to get it done without everyone falling into a pile of sobs. He remained strong. Besides, there was a reason to be happy that day - Voldemort had been defeated. People express emotion in different ways.

In book four DD is pleased that Voldemort can touch Harry. Bizzare, don't you think?This has been highly debated. The look was of "triumph" not "pleasure." That can be interpreted in a number of ways, but we really don't have enough information to draw any conclusions.

There are a number of subtleties that have yet to be answered or even asked. Why didn't Sirius get a trial?Are you implying this is Dumbledore's fault? Everyone believed he was a murderer.

Isn't it weird that the people attacked after Voldemort fell were the Longbottoms? Who was the Longbottom's secret keeper?Since when did they have a secret keeper? As I understand it, Bellatrix et al tortured the Longbottoms as both punishment and to get information. But we actually don't know the circumstances at all. Nothing implies DD had anything to do with it.

Why couldn't Dumbledore insist that Harry be pulled from the Triwizard? Can you really not change the rules to a stupid game?He was bound by the magic of the Goblet of Fire. Technically, DD may have been able to break the spell, but I think he thought doing the tournament might be good practice for Harry. I don't think he foresaw Harry being kidnapped and almost killed.

Well it's like I said. He'll do anything to defeat Voldemort.How would any of the things you mentioned help in the fight against Voldemort? All that stuff would make him LV's ally.


My thoughts on Trelawney are that she's basically a fraud "but for" the two prophecies she predicted. Trelawney is not a "true Seer" as her ancestor Cassandra Trelawney was. My thought is that as Sybil is not a "true Seer" then we only know what happens when she reveals a prophecy.I think Trelawney is for sure a True Seer! The irony is she has no idea what it means to truly "see" and prophesize. She thinks it involves crystal balls, tea leaves, and thinking really hard. She doesn't understand that it's something that just happens. A Seer is simply a vessel - s/he has no control over when/where/why/how it happens. But she thinks she's a failure because she's not spouting prophecies 24/7. She doesn't even know about the prophecies she has given!

I'm not nicky, but is this what you're looking for?



http://www.twwn.net/JKR2.shtml
Thanks for answering Sugabeen, Rapunzel, I had gone out to get my five year old at the school bus stop!

If that were the case he would have told Harry about his fate when he should have, instead of waiting all these years to spare him the pain.

I'm not saying Dumbledore doesn't care about Harry. He obviously does and no proof is needed. But he sent Harry to a place where he would only be safe, not happy. He's very concerened with keeping Harry safe, which is good, but look how Harry has turned out.

Most likely Lily knew about any correspondance. It wouldn't make sense for him to do it behind her back, and there's no evidence.
There's no evidence either way.

He did care. He just had a job to do and needed to get it done without everyone falling into a pile of sobs. He remained strong. Besides, there was a reason to be happy that day - Voldemort had been defeated. People express emotion in different ways.

Yes, and DD cried in book five about Harry. I understand the business manner, but it was a little strange that he didn't seem upset. DD shows his emotions if they are strong.

This has been highly debated. The look was of "triumph" not "pleasure." That can be interpreted in a number of ways, but we really don't have enough information to draw any conclusions.

I said he was pleased with the information, not that he had a look of pleasure. Triumph, to me at least, suggests he's pleased with the information. Pleased because there is a link between harry and LV, a physical link.

Are you implying this is Dumbledore's fault? Everyone believed he was a murderer.

No, I'm implying that it's curious Sirius wasn't tried or given the opportunity, ever, to explain. I understand him being imprisoned so soon, but after the danger subsided... he was never given the chance.

]quote]Since when did they have a secret keeper? As I understand it, Bellatrix et al tortured the Longbottoms as both punishment and to get information. But we actually don't know the circumstances at all. Nothing implies DD had anything to do with it.[/quote]

Nothing has been confirmed, it's a theory. Why did the lestranges to to the Longbottoms? There were other order members, weren't there? I assume, since Neville was included in the prophecy, that they too had a secret keeper. I may be wrong, but it would make sense for them to have extra protection.

He was bound by the magic of the Goblet of Fire. Technically, DD may have been able to break the spell, but I think he thought doing the tournament might be good practice for Harry. I don't think he foresaw Harry being kidnapped and almost killed.

Nor do I think he wanted Harry killed. But he's pushing for Harry to be trained. That I agree with.

How would any of the things you mentioned help in the fight against Voldemort? All that stuff would make him LV's ally.

No it wouldn't. DD is strengthening Harry, putting Harry through his paces, doing whatever is required to ensure Harry wins, but not going about it with Harry's happiness in mind. He wants Harry to win, for if Harry wins LV loses, obviously. He'll do anything to make sure LV is defeated.

Maybe Petunia has some powers but is not a full witch. Possibly that would explain her bitterness toward Lily. Maybe she has only an ability to transfigure and nothing else...or some other limited power. That would make her neither witch nor squib...nor muggle really. But maybe her lack of talent or ability caused her to reject everything as worthless...and embrace her muggle-ness. And marry the biggest muggle ever. But she would probably have an understanding of enough of the wizarding world to know that she MUST take care of Harry for the well being of everyone.

And the letters...maybe she asked DD to be admitted to Hogwarts ....or maybe she used to tattle on Lily hoping to see her lose her opportunity.

Here's another random thought...maybe DD was writing to Petunia to prepare her to take on a wizard baby....not knowing yet if it would be Harry or Neville to fulfill the prophecy. If DD wanted the baby to be in the muggle world to protect him, and Neville had no muggle relatives, maybe when she saw the baby Petunia screamed because she realized it was her sister that had died. Maybe Petunia has a reward coming from DD for taking care of Harry- like permission to use some limited magic in the future.

Quote:
Barnes and Noble Interview
March 1999
In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.

Thankyou, Rapunzel! Wow - so whatever this is, its been planned from the beginning. That rules out a lot of characters, which is good for us theorisers!! I think its even more likely to be Petunia now. Its also likely to be related to the final battle - possibly an event that she may have already written eg the final chapter??

thats an interesting fact i missed that interveiw. i bet that it could be her. thanks sugabeen!

No it wouldn't. DD is strengthening Harry, putting Harry through his paces, doing whatever is required to ensure Harry wins, but not going about it with Harry's happiness in mind. He wants Harry to win, for if Harry wins LV loses, obviously. He'll do anything to make sure LV is defeated.

Ahh, but you're forgetting one thing. In OotP, Dumbledore admits to Harry that he made a mistake by not telling Harry everything sooner. He said that cared about Harry's happiness too much to burden him with the full truth at an earlier time.

I'm not saying Dumbledore doesn't care about Harry. He obviously does and no proof is needed. But he sent Harry to a place where he would only be safe, not happy. He's very concerened with keeping Harry safe, which is good, but look how Harry has turned out.Harry's turned out pretty good, given the circumstances. When you love someone, especially a child, you often need to do what keeps them safe, and that's not often what keeps them happy. Staying at the Dursleys is what has kept Harry alive, which is much more important than keeping him happy. I don't think that's a reason to question DD's motives.

Yes, and DD cried in book five about Harry. I understand the business manner, but it was a little strange that he didn't seem upset. DD shows his emotions if they are strong.He shows them when it is OK to show them. With McGonagall, that was not the appropriate time to start crying. Talking with Harry about Sirius was the perfect time.

I said he was pleased with the information, not that he had a look of pleasure. Triumph, to me at least, suggests he's pleased with the information. Pleased because there is a link between harry and LV, a physical link.You can be triumphant without being pleased with about it. I'm sure Dumbledore was not glad Harry and Voldemort were connected. In fact, he already knew they were since the day Harry repelled LV's AK.

No, I'm implying that it's curious Sirius wasn't tried or given the opportunity, ever, to explain. I understand him being imprisoned so soon, but after the danger subsided... he was never given the chance.But what does that have to do with Dumbledore?

Nothing has been confirmed, it's a theory. Why did the lestranges to to the Longbottoms? There were other order members, weren't there? I assume, since Neville was included in the prophecy, that they too had a secret keeper. I may be wrong, but it would make sense for them to have extra protection.If they had a secret keeper, Lestrange and the DEs would not have been able to find them. But I think it's odd that they wouldn't have a secret keeper, since Voldemort could have chosen to go after Neville first. But if they did have a SK, the only way the DEs could have found them is if the SK had betrayed them, like Peter did the Potters. :huh: Are you suggesting their secret keeper was Dumbledore? How would that help defeat LV? If that's not what you're suggesting, why is this even relevant to what you're saying?

Also, the Lestranges went after the Longbottoms because they probably knew Neville might be the one in the prophecy.

No it wouldn't. DD is strengthening Harry, putting Harry through his paces, doing whatever is required to ensure Harry wins, but not going about it with Harry's happiness in mind.Like I said in my first response, Dumbledore protected Harry from the truth for many years, to the detriment of the war against Voldemort. DD made a mistake for the sake of Harry's happiness. I think that proves DD is taking Harry's well-being into consideration.

well of course, harry has gone throught the last 5 years knowing nothing about what is going on. if harry knew more about the situation then maybe he would have been better equiped to handle situations where he has to learn occlumency form snape, he may have been more reseptive of the lessons.

I agree with those that are saying that Petunia definitely knew that something like that could happen, but perhaps just didn’t want to believe it. Her scream was mostly from shock, or dread/fear that everything that had come true. That would explain her constant desire to keep Harry out of magic. She has been hiding something, and the truth will be coming out soon.

i know this sounds stupid but maybe it was a threat. Just a theory.

Perhaps Dumbledore had written to Petunia to try and convince her to become Lily and James' secret keeper. If she refused, she might secretly feel very guilty about Lily's death and may, therefore, feel even more obligated to keep Harry alive.

It is also possible that Dumbledore wrote to her about the deaths of her parents if they were somehow involved in the war.

Jael

i know this sounds stupid but maybe it was a threat. Just a theory.

You mean whatever was in the letter, rather than offering Petunia protection, or something positive, Dumbledore threatened her if she didn't take Harry in? That's not stupid. I'd say it's entirely possible.

You mean whatever was in the letter, rather than offering Petunia protection, or something positive, Dumbledore threatened her if she didn't take Harry in? That's not stupid. I'd say it's entirely possible.
what would Dumbledore do to her?
and
Do you guys think that Petunia will find out about Sirius? Do you think she and Harry might get closer? :shrug:

Um, JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle (therefore not a witch who burned her Hogwarts letter to hide the shame of it all--she didn't get one).

Yes Petunia is a muggle. But that doesn't mean she couldn't have gotten a Hogwarts letter. She could've been a muggle-born witch had she accepted her invitation to Hogwarts. She didn't accept the letter which means she remains a muggle. Maybe I'm just getting to excited with all this new information, but with Jo who knows?

Yes Petunia is a muggle. But that doesn't mean she couldn't have gotten a Hogwarts letter. She could've been a muggle-born witch had she accepted her invitation to Hogwarts. She didn't accept the letter which means she remains a muggle. Maybe I'm just getting to excited with all this new information, but with Jo who knows?That's not how it works. You only get a letter if you are magical. JKR said Petunia is a muggle - that means she was born to muggles and she has no magical power. Period. Being magical is not a choice.

I'm re-reading PS/SS right now. If Petunia got letters just days before Harry arrived, she doesn't act like it. It says she slept easily before Harry showed up on their doorstep. It was Vernon who had a restless night because of all the strange goings on in the neighborhood.

Speaking of which, let me know if this has been discussed before. When I first read PS/SS I assumed that all the wizards showing up in the neighborhood (what's the town's name?) had arrived there because that was where Harry had vanquished Voldemort.

But then I realized, Lily and James couldn't have lived nearby. Did they?

This means that the town was/is FULL of wizards who lived there. The Owls that were arriving in town weren't all for Petunia. They were bringing news to the local wizards in the neighborhood about Harry/Voldemort.

So if wizards have been living in Harry's town all this time - how come Harry is completely oblivious to this fact. How come Harry never sees or talks to one when he's with the Dursley's? He was completely shocked to find out that little old lady neighbor was a squib.

I apologize if this has been discussed before. It's all new to me. But give me a link to threads previously discussing this if you can.

Yes Petunia is a muggle. But that doesn't mean she couldn't have gotten a Hogwarts letter. She could've been a muggle-born witch had she accepted her invitation to Hogwarts. She didn't accept the letter which means she remains a muggle. Maybe I'm just getting to excited with all this new information, but with Jo who knows?Nope, she would be an untrained muggle-born witch and not a muggle. Witches and wizards are born, not made. If there is no talent to begin with,Hogwarts will not help - look at squibs. And if talent is there but no training was provided - the magic will still find its way out as a spontaneous wandless magic. Hagrid did not stop being magical when he was expelled, (though he was never "great shakes in magic" anyway). There is even a name for this mentioned in the books: not a properly trained wizard.
Petunia is just a muggle, accept it, people. BUT she has ties to magical community through her blood. And, most importantly, she knows about it. People like her might be of great use for those who can see it. Just think: pure-bloods and in particular Death-Eaters do not consider muggles as people. A muggle town would be of no concequence for them, just like an unpopulated area. What is a better place to hide anything? As long as you can count on a reliable muggle, of course. And who is better then a relative of a muggle-born?

I'm re-reading PS/SS right now. If Petunia got letters just days before Harry arrived, she doesn't act like it. It says she slept easily before Harry showed up on their doorstep. It was Vernon who had a restless night because of all the strange goings on in the neighborhood.

Speaking of which, let me know if this has been discussed before. When I first read PS/SS I assumed that all the wizards showing up in the neighborhood (what's the town's name?) had arrived there because that was where Harry had vanquished Voldemort.

But then I realized, Lily and James couldn't have lived nearby. Did they?

This means that the town was/is FULL of wizards who lived there. The Owls that were arriving in town weren't all for Petunia. They were bringing news to the local wizards in the neighborhood about Harry/Voldemort.

So if wizards have been living in Harry's town all this time - how come Harry is completely oblivious to this fact. How come Harry never sees or talks to one when he's with the Dursley's? He was completely shocked to find out that little old lady neighbor was a squib.

I apologize if this has been discussed before. It's all new to me. But give me a link to threads previously discussing this if you can.

I haven't read the PS/SS since the beginning of the summer so I don't remember exactly what the book said about wizards living in Little Whinging, but I do remember Umbridge or Fudge making a reference about this in Ootp. I believe at Harry's trial when DD introuduced Miss. Figg as a witness, Umbridge or Fudge said something to the effect of we have no record of any witch/wizard living in the area. Uncle Vernon saw wizards on his way to work bc he worked a good drive away from the neighborhood where he lived.

As far as Harry vanqishing Voldemort here, that if false. This happened in Godrics Hollow, and I'm not to sure where that is located, but i don't think it is close to the Dursley's place.

I haven't read the PS/SS since the beginning of the summer so I don't remember exactly what the book said about wizards living in Little Whinging, but I do remember Umbridge or Fudge making a reference about this in Ootp. I believe at Harry's trial when DD introuduced Miss. Figg as a witness, Umbridge or Fudge said something to the effect of we have no record of any witch/wizard living in the area. Uncle Vernon saw wizards on his way to work bc he worked a good drive away from the neighborhood where he lived.

As far as Harry vanqishing Voldemort here, that if false. This happened in Godrics Hollow, and I'm not to sure where that is located, but i don't think it is close to the Dursley's place.


OK, so then. No other wizards/witches lived in Harry's neighborhood. BUT they lived in the same town.

So if Petunia slept easily the night before Harry showed up on her doorstep. Then she must NOT have received any letters from Dumbledore in the days leading up to it.

She must not have seen any Owls flying around the neighborhood because there weren't any wizards there to deliver the news too. And SHE would have known what they meant because now we know that she's gotten letters before. Thus the surprised/shocked screaming when she saw Harry.

She was genuinely surprised when Vernon brought the Potters up at dinner after HE had seen Owls and strange people in robes all over town when he went to work. Petunia said she had a perfectly lovely (read: normal) day.

So I'm deducing that Petunia has had correspondence with Dumbledore LONG before Oct. 31st the day Lily and James died.

Sorry to display my ignorance, but could somebody get me that exact quote about Petunia being a muggle; I can't find it.

Sorry to display my ignorance, but could somebody get me that exact quote about Petunia being a muggle; I can't find it.

It's on her website, the News section, in the JK Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival transcript, about the 5th question down.