Will Voldemort Invade Hogwarts?

In book 1 Hagrid tells Harry, when he goes to pick him up from the dursley's , that Voldemort "Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then, anyway."
Well know Voldemort's stronger and also has the dementors, and who knows what else on his side.
Do you think he'll try and take the school?
Also why would he even want to, is there something that he can use there?

if there is a thread like this please notify me

Hogwarts under attack & its defence (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97&highlight=attack%2A)

You also might like Accessibility of Hogwarts (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=34077&highlight=Hogwarts)

I think that as long as Dumbledore remains at Hogwarts they are safe.

I have a hunch that everthing that has been protecting Harry thus far will be compromised somehow, for example the Dursley's house on Privet Drive, Dumbledore, Hogwarts and the Ootp headaquarters at 12 Grimmauld Place. For Harry I think it's going to come down to the old saying "no where to run, nowhere to hide".



I agree. While it is true that Voldemort wants Harry dead, there are several things to consider:

1) Voldemort doesn't care who he kills to do it
2) Harry is extremely well protected by the "blood protection" at the Dursley House; 12 Grimmauld Place and Hogwarts. But if Harry steps ONE TOE outside either of those places, he has to have armed guards surrounding him.

I think in Book 7 - Voldemort and his Death Eaters will mount a full scale attack to "smoke out" Harry.

Voldemort is using "stealth" means right now because he's still building up his army and supporters. But I also believe he has spies every where to figure out ways to breach the security around Harry.

And it's not impossible.

BOOK 1: Voldemort possessed Quirrel and got into Hogwarts
BOOK 2: Lucious Malfoy was able to get the Riddle Diary into the school via Ginny.
BOOK 3: Sirius Black was able to get Hogwarts AND Gryffindor Tower AND Harry's dormitory with the help of only Lupin.
BOOK 4: Barty Crouch Jr. was able to become a Hogwarts TEACHER with easy access to Harry by taking out Mad Eye and impersonating him for a YEAR.
BOOK 5: Voldemort was able to get inside Harry's head and lure him out of the school.

Rowling has shown in EVERY book that it's possible to get around Hogwart's security and the people protecting Harry. Add that to the fact that the whole house of SLYTHERIN is full of possible traitors and spies that could work from the inside of Hogwarts to figure out a way to get onto the grounds and mount an attack.

So I think one by one Harry's "safe places" will be taken out. The Dursley house will be first. That's going down in book 6. JK said that Harry will spend his shortest summer yet there.

I fear that The Burrow/Weasley House will be attacked too. A Weasley will die. :( Maybe more than one. Another place that Harry feels like is home will be taken away from him.

Then in Book 7 - 12 Grimmauld Place will be breached. And I suspect Kreacher will play a big part in that. Since he played a part in smoking Sirius out and luring him to his death.

Then Harry will only have Hogwarts left as a safe place. But all these events will serve to break down Harry emotionally to make him vulnerable as well as making him physically vulnerable.

By the end full out WAR will be on the Hogwarts grounds.

I think that as long as Dumbledore remains at Hogwarts they are safe.

As long as Dumbledore remains at Hogwarts... means if he dies Hogwarts is in major trouble. Hogwarts could get invaded by the Dark Lord himself, along with his Death Eaters. I do believe Lucius Malfoy will escape, helping his other Death Eaters escape. So this means Voldemort is starting to bring his "Final Plans" in... u know, with his army. Main characters will die. So, yes... Hogwarts could get invaded.

Yes. But as long as Dumbledore lives, there MOST certainly will be no attacks to Hogwarts. Voldemort is NOT in his full powers yet.

Yes. But as long as Dumbledore lives, there MOST certainly will be no attacks to Hogwarts. Voldemort is NOT in his full powers yet.

Key word being YET. Voldermort get's more powerful every book. By Book 7, he could be back to the level he was before Harry was born. Possibly more powerful - isn't that what Trelawney said in her trance in PoA?

I think that as long as Dumbledore is at least in the school, or nearby the school, Voldemort will probably be thinking twice about trying to take over the castle, unless, of course, Voldemort either plays a trick on Dumbledore to get him away from the school in order to get it, or gets one of DE's to do it for him. Let's not forget that the only wizard Voldemort ever really feared was Dumbledore.

We all don't want it to happen, but Dumbledore may get killed. If he doesn't get killed, he gets lured out of Hogwarts... some way of doing it. Something big is going to happen that we don't want to happen. We know main characters will die. Put two and two together... all I am saying.

Another note: I really wouldn't like it to happen though.

I'll agree that Privet drive WILL be attacked in some way... but the burrow... I don't think the Weasleys are that high on Voldy's hit list... besides how foolhardy would that be, attack a house with 4 members of the Order, 2 DA members who already have experience fighting death eaters... and lets not even begin to talk about what Fred & George could do in defense of their house.... Needless to say there are better and safer targets out there then the burrow.

I think that DD is too strong to die though I may be proven wrong. Voldemort may try to break into Hogwarts because we can now say that it can be broken into. Sirius broke into it. Peter had been there for quite some time. The fake Moody, Quirrel, even Tom Riddle's diary,and he broke into Harry's mind!!!!!!! Yes , Voldemort will want to break into Hogwarts-and try to kill Harry.

I think that by the end of book 7 LV will be in full power.

They have to fight somewhere. LV has opened the COS, DD & HP are at Hogwarts. It's quite possibe that the final battle will be at Hogwarts. This would cause the final battle to really be between Harry and Voldemort. It's possible DD will be dead at this point.

if voldemort does invade what do you guys think his army will consist of. Or will he go solo

if voldemort does invade what do you guys think his army will consist of. Or will he go solo

In my opinion sometime during the next two books the Slytherin House will begin to break away from the rest of the houses much like Slytherin himself did with the founders of the school. The Sorting Hat warns the school to stand united in OotP and Lord Voldemort may use the children of his Death Eater's to help to infiltrate the school.

I don't really see any reason for him to take over Hogwarts. Yeah, DD is there and so is Harry, but that doesn't seem enough reason to me for him to invade Hogwarts.

I do not think he will need to INVIDE Hogwarts. if I am to believe the patterns, LV will teach DADA in the 7th book :). Perhaps in disguise, though.
see for yourself
Book1. Evil Quirell posessed by LV
Book 2. A pompous self-important mediocrity
Book 3. All around good guy with a tragic secret
Book 4. Evil Crouch Jr. in service of LV
Book 5. A pompous self-important mediocrity

if we follow the pattern,
Book 6. All around good guy/gal with a tragic secret
Book 7. Someone evil in disguise with connection to LV. As Book 7 is the time for the final show-down, I can see JKR breaking her habit of introducing a completely new person for a DADA teacher. He might appear new, but it will be the oldie Voldie we all know and love all the same.

I do not think he will need to INVIDE Hogwarts. if I am to believe the patterns, LV will teach DADA in the 7th book :). Perhaps in disguise, though.
see for yourself
Book1. Evil Quirell posessed by LV
Book 2. A pompous self-important mediocrity
Book 3. All around good guy with a tragic secret
Book 4. Evil Crouch Jr. in service of LV
Book 5. A pompous self-important mediocrity

if we follow the pattern,
Book 6. All around good guy/gal with a tragic secret
Book 7. Someone evil in disguise with connection to LV. As Book 7 is the time for the final show-down, I can see JKR breaking her habit of introducing a completely new person for a DADA teacher. He might appear new, but it will be the oldie Voldie we all know and love all the same.

Oh wow. I never thought of that pattern. Wow that may be right. That is a cool thought.

For Voldemort himself to teach DADA would be too risky for him. What if Dumbledore managed to see through his disguise? Voldemort would be in a Dumbledore friendly environment surrounded by Dumbledore, McGonagall, Flitwick, and all the other teachers. They might not be willing to kill him using Avada Kedavra, but I'm sure Snape would have no problem attempting to kill Voldemort.

For Voldemort himself to teach DADA would be too risky for him. What if Dumbledore managed to see through his disguise? Voldemort would be in a Dumbledore friendly environment surrounded by Dumbledore, McGonagall, Flitwick, and all the other teachers. They might not be willing to kill him using Avada Kedavra, but I'm sure Snape would have no problem attempting to kill Voldemort.
No one saw through Quirell or Crouch Jr., and LV is a better occlumen than ant of them. And anyone knows that there is no better place to hide than in the plain sight. Who would suspect him there? And where would he be in a better position to strike Harry, the only threat to his power?

Not whilst Dumbledore is there he won't

but the burrow... I don't think the Weasleys are that high on Voldy's hit list... besides how foolhardy would that be, attack a house with 4 members of the Order, 2 DA members who already have experience fighting death eaters... .


The Weasley's are PRIME targets. Precisely BECAUSE (minus Percy) they're all a part of the order. They were in the first one too. Remember Molly's brother's got killed by death eaters? They're practically the heart & soul of the Order.

What better way to strike the strongest blow - strategically and emotionally than to take out one of the Weasley's? Now, I don't WANT it to happen. But the Weasley's are most definately a MAJOR target. They already tried to kill Arthur.

Just a suggestion but could the CoS be a key factor if LV tries to invade or return in "disguise" as mentioned by "ikuko" to Hogwarts?
What do you think?

If Voldemort were to invade Hogwarts that would be really terrible. The only time i see him doing something like that is if Dumbldore was gone and he Harry was there unprotected. It would be too dangerous to invade hogwarts. If he wants to go there to kill a bunch of young kids thats terrible. Most of the people with the exception of Harry that Voldemort went after were adults working against him. To get at Harry mabe. And i guess Draco could tell dad all the people who support harry and try to get rid of them but i think it would be too risky. Its a possibility but i think the only time he would is if Dumbldore was gone and wasent in a place where he could come back. I guess if that happened we could really see where snapes loyalties lie.

Well LV latest atempts to kill harry have failed

CoS in the CoS: The memory of the 16 year old Tom Riddle tried to kill harry but failed
GoF in the graveyard: He had his DE get Harry for him so he could kill harry but due to their wands he failed and his DE couldn't even stop Harry from leaving
OotP at the MoM: He possesed harry so that DD would attempt to sacrifice harry in the hope of killing him, Voldemort, but his plan again failed.

So, perhaps Voldemort has finally realized to get the job done he has to do it himself and kill harry at hogwarts Maybe as the knew disguised DADA teacher or by sneaking in to the school through its hidden passages or maybe with his army
And for anyone who thinks he won't do it while DD is there he can simply come up with another idea to get him out of there , as he has done before , just long enough for him to get to Harry and do his business. And any of the other schools defenses shouldn't realy be that hard for Voldemort to get through

I agree that he could just send his army to go through the school and kill everyone except Harry, so that he can take Harry on one on one.

But also we have to remember that this is a story so what ever happens has to make a good story. So the killing of everyone is completly crazy.

fair point. So then he might just kill Harry while he's alone a final confrontation A quick in and out mission. Although something about what hagrid says to harry that Voldemort "Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then, anyway." in SS/PS just makes me think LV will go to or invade Hogwarts. Or else what would be the point of Hagrid saying this
Anyone have an opinion?

fair point. So then he might just kill Harry while he's alone a final confrontation A quick in and out mission. Although something about what hagrid says to harry that Voldemort "Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then, anyway." in SS/PS just makes me think LV will go to or invade Hogwarts. Or else what would be the point of Hagrid saying this
Anyone have an opinion?

Why are you so certian he is going to kill Harry? I think Harry will kill him.

I'm not certain its just what i would like. Harry may verry well kill LV i just think its going to go down at Hogwarts

you might find this thread up your ally Location of the Final Battle (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16972&highlight=final)

To answer the question of the thead: highly unlikely. Too big a chance of hitting his Death Eaters' sons and daughters?

You all should just totally see post #29 and #2 as it has the information you are looking for in other threads. Here are threads on the end of the books;

The End of Book 7 v2 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=31478&highlight=the+end+of+book+7+v2)
Will Harry die in Book 7? v2 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=31476&highlight=the+end+of+book+7+v2)
Is Harry capable of killing? Will Harry let Voldemort live? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23867&highlight=the+end+of+book+7+v2)

See this thread ?

Where will Voldemort strike? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=30423)

I'll agree that Privet drive WILL be attacked in some way... but the burrow... I don't think the Weasleys are that high on Voldy's hit list... besides how foolhardy would that be, attack a house with 4 members of the Order, 2 DA members who already have experience fighting death eaters... and lets not even begin to talk about what Fred & George could do in defense of their house.... Needless to say there are better and safer targets out there then the burrow.

As anyone with a decent head for battle will tell you, attack the heart. Harry feels the Weasley's to be his family that he hasn't known, you kill them you may just make him do something stupid, like go after you before he's ready, easy pickings.

Salazar wanted to teach the dark arts and probably did not leave willingly from Hogwarts. I think if Voldemort is the true heir of Slytherin then there is a pretty good chance that he may invade Hogwarts or at least try and return to teach the dark arts again. We know Voldemort does teach his death eaters the dark arts as Bellatrix informed us in OotP and no doubt the teacher wants a slightly better place for that practice, Hogwarts which is one of his aims I think.

The one problem standing between Hogwarts and his attempt to regain the school is Dumbledore not Harry, Harry is safe as long as Dumbledore is around which also means the school is too. If Voldemort takes Dumbledore out of the equation then Hogwarts and Harry are no longer safe and both will fall if not careful.

From reading the books, I've come to the conclusion that the wizarding world in Great Britain is administered in magic bastions, strongholds if you will, in the major areas

England- Ministry of Magic, St. Mungos, Diagonalley (since all are located in London, I consider this a single stronghold)

Scotland- Hogwarts and Hogsmeade

Wales- ?

Ireland- ? (NOTE-I doubt muggle politics would affect the wizarding world, so this includes the whole island)

For Azkaban Fortress, I've always assumed that it was located somewhere between Jersey and southern England.

In any case, I think that Voldemort would have to take over these strongholds to consolidate his power in the British Isles. I think it would be safe to assume that Hogwarts would be attacked.

I certainly hope not, I think Voldemort is not strong enough to attempt an assault on Hogwarts (too well protected by the founders and countless of wizards and witches that enjoyed their education there later, something like that has got to leave some powerfull magic), maybe on the village Hogsmeade though.

As anyone with a decent head for battle will tell you, attack the heart. Harry feels the Weasley's to be his family that he hasn't known, you kill them you may just make him do something stupid, like go after you before he's ready, easy pickings.

The problem is that the burrow is not the heart... Hogwarts is. Voldemort won't waste time and death eaters on a minor prize, he is weak enough as it is... He is down to 3 servicable death eaters (Bellatrix, Wormtail & Snape) and as we see he is currently too weak (even with the death eaters he lost in the DoM) to take on the order one on one attacking an Order stronghold would be foolhardy especially when all he would gain would be at best a valueable hostage or two... Voldemort is not stupid he won't waste his death eaters when there are so many safer and more valuable targets.

The problem is that the burrow is not the heart... Hogwarts is. Voldemort won't waste time and death eaters on a minor prize, he is weak enough as it is... He is down to 3 servicable death eaters (Bellatrix, Wormtail & Snape) and as we see he is currently too weak (even with the death eaters he lost in the DoM) to take on the order one on one attacking an Order stronghold would be foolhardy especially when all he would gain would be at best a valueable hostage or two... Voldemort is not stupid he won't waste his death eaters when there are so many safer and more valuable targets.
Excuse me, but Snape isn't a Death eater anymore. :huh:

I don't think he'll invade Hogwarts. The teachers would be a good defense. Not to forgot Dumbledore. The only Voldemort has even feared?

So no, I don't think Hogwarts will be his first choice.

Yeah but assume Dumbledore is defeated or he gets a weapon that would make his being there obsolete?

Snape is still a death eater he just works for the order and thus he still works for Voldy... I don't think he would attack anyone for Voldy but he might have to rather than show his allegence to the order.


Anyways... I'm not sure if he will attack Hogwarts I like the theory that Voldy will become the DADA teacher... but in terms of a target the burrow is a bad target... best case scenerio he can take Ron hostage... but that would be the only reason he'd do it...

Quite possibly LV will get into Hogwarts, though whether as a full scale invasion, I'm not sure. He'd proably need the giants to help, or possibly get the goblins to tunnel into the dungeons??

Crucially, disapparation is not possible in Hogwarts, thus negating one of LV's advantages. If things are going badly, he can't vanish without a portkey.

Could make for an interesting final battle.

The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.

The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.

I too believe Hogmsmeade will get attacked. Maybe that is where Madam Rosmerta dies. People have said she does have crucial parts in the upcoming books. Hogsmeade will get attacked before Hogwarts. But this would give Hogwarts warning. Voldemort is smarter then that... we know that. So, it is anyone's guess.

Here are a few other relevant threads. They'd make good reference threads, or possibly be merged, since at least one of them is the same premise. :)

Hogwarts under attack & its defence (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97&highlight=hogwarts)

Will Hogwarts operate normally during the last two books? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=32563&highlight=hogwarts)

The starting of a new Hogwarts? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=18155&highlight=hogwarts)

WARTIME HOGWARTS - What will it be like? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=31089&highlight=hogwarts)

(Keyword search - Hogwarts in DS and HoM)

i think he will. of course he'll invade hogwarts. the end of the book will end, i think,in one of two places: hogwarts or godric's hollow.

i think he will. of course he'll invade hogwarts. the end of the book will end, i think,in one of two places: hogwarts or godric's hollow.

What about Grimmauld Place?

Dumbledore is the Secret-Keeper for it right? If something happens, it could be revealed and stuff could happen there.

The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.

True you'll get probably the two most important Weasleys if you take Hogwarts... Hogsmeade would be a nice target for a book 6 surprise... but then again so would Diagon Alley... which is a possibility no one is considering...

The problem is that the burrow is not the heart... Hogwarts is. Voldemort won't waste time and death eaters on a minor prize, he is weak enough as it is... He is down to 3 servicable death eaters (Bellatrix, Wormtail & Snape) and as we see he is currently too weak (even with the death eaters he lost in the DoM) to take on the order one on one attacking an Order stronghold would be foolhardy especially when all he would gain would be at best a valueable hostage or two... Voldemort is not stupid he won't waste his death eaters when there are so many safer and more valuable targets.

You idiot!!! Do you think I was on about the building?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!

Attack HARRY's heart!!! He thinks the Weasley's are his family.... you attack the Weasley's.... Harry gets very annoyed..... Harry comes after you..... You kill Harry. Simple. :evil:

This is purely a strategic overlook of the Battle of Hogwarts. I am assuming that a great battle does take place, and that Voldemort has an extremely immense army, so I'm not going to dispute why/why not an attack will happen.

First off, the timing of the attack-

1. Voldemort attacks while students are enroute to or back from Hogsmeade, there by keeping them weak in both places and keeping them isolated in the path between.

2. Voldemort launches an attack on Hogsmeade while the students are there. As Hogsmeade will not be nearly as fortified as the castle, this will make it easier on the DE Army.

3. Voldemort storms the castle directly (with all the students there), with help from a mobilized Slytherin House, led by Draco, there by starting a two-pronged assult on the castle.

Second, the units used in the attack-

I believe Voldemort's Army will have to be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- DE members
Second-Tier Officers- Goblins, DE-House Elves
"enlisted" units- Trolls, Dementors, Dragons, other various creatures

The Hogwarts army (essentially a more powerful and expanded version of the original DA) I believe will be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- The school staff, Aurors
Second-Tier Officers- members of the original DA, the Trio
"enlisted" units- Ravenclaw Division, Hufflepuff Division, Gryfinndor Division, Slytherin Militia (for the few members who remain loyal to Hogwarts)

Thirdly, the type of attack (this relates heavily with the timing of the attack)-

1. Using Wormtails knowledge, Voldemort sends in "sleeper cells" (aided and abetted by Slytherin House) to back up what will eventually be a Slytherin uprising (and also to scout for traitors to help them in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw and Gryfinndor) while DE's control an army of Trolls to keep the staff busy while he seizes key points inside the castle.

2. An attack while the students are enroute to or from Hogsmeade, Voldemort would use trolls and other creatures to attack on both sides of the path, keeping them occupied while dementors or goblins (im going by their intelligence: trolls are stupid, so they'll be used only for simple tasks, while goblins and dementors will be used for more advanced manuvers {like occupation}) to take Hogsmeade. After they have secured the town, they will order the Slytherins to attack the still-isolated students on the path.

3a. Voldemort leads a full-scale siege against Hogwarts while all students (including the Trio) are at Hogsmeade. Hogwarts would be grossley under-manned with only the staff (roughly two dozen teachers), untrained 1st years, and mediocre 2nd years. With the castle under his control, the seemingly-undefendable Hogsmeade would be massacre zone for siege attacks.

3b. Voldemort surrounds and secures the area around Hogsmeade while all the students are there and isolates them from any reinforcements (i.e. aurors or teachers). DE sleeper units travelling with Slytherin reveal themseleves and take the most important buildings (especially Honeyduke's).
House-to-House fighting ensues with Slytherin giving out positions and manuvers of the Hogwarts Army secretly while pretending to be apart of the effort.

Now for the defense strategy-

1. The Gryfinndors (Trio especially) will be very VERY suspicious of Slytherin and would be watching every move. Using some inside help (from a sympathetic Slytherin or the castle house elves) to keep tabs on them. Harry would have the tunnels watched by the DA/HA, while Ron (whom I believe to be a strategic genius, thereby being the DA/HA "Field Marshal") would secure the castle's key locations. Hermione would probably use her knowledge to find out spells that can detect dark forces or see through invisibility cloaks (like Moody's eye). With the Slytherins closely watched, they won't be able to do anything without Harry or Dumbledore's knowing. If they do manage to pull off the initial two-pronged attack, It will be a classroom-to-classroom warfare type of sitiuation, and the key objective would be to capture Slytherin dungeon and, possibly, the Chamber of Secrets. The outside attack would be very intense, and the castle defense would have to be used to its fullest, with emphasis on protecting the castle doors and secret passages.

2. Assuming that the Trio is among the students that would be caught during the attack between Hogwarts and Hogsmeade, Harry and Ron (along with any teachers who were with them) would immediately take command of the situation, having the students closest to either the castle or the town go back there and the students to far away from both to try to fight off the army and keep the route open for supplies and reinforcements. Hermione would be charged with trying to organize their forces (according to magical power) and command the logistics needed to fight. The original DA would be attempting to retake Hogsmeade along with the full-grown wizards there. Neville would be charged with rebuffing the Slytherin attacks along with Ginny and Luna.

3a. If Hogwarts was taken in absentia of the trio while they were at Hogsmeade, then first they would have to know about it. Dobby would be the reliable source to tell them. Once aware of whats happened, Ron would lead Hogsmeade's defense, while Harry would go for an attack on the occupied castle itself. Hermione, along with the original DA, would go through the secret entrance at Honeyduke's and either attempt to hit them from behind...or try and defend it from agents of the dark lord.

3b. If Hogsmeade itself was attacked while they were inside, Ron would lead the defense in what is essentially going to be house-to-house combat. Harry would do all he could to break the blockade surrounding the town, while Hermione would be trying to find and destroy DE sleeper units. The original DA would fight against the slytherins with Neville leading them (I believe Neville has about as much ability as Harry...just hasn't relized it fully yet)

There is more, but that is more detailed and what i just described was the broad strategy.

Toodles...

NOTE- I have obviously taken some liberties and made certain assumptions with this overlook. Most of what I have put is generally accepted, and note that the emphasis of this was purely on strategy...NOT who would lead what.

Hmm.....very interesting Dark Emperor. That seems to be very well thought out.

Allow me to add that ghosts would essentially be the messengers of the battlefield, while peeves would (until the DEs themselves eliminate him) be a constant nuisance to the trolls and whatnot.

Come on people! need more opinions!

Since it appears this thread is going to remain in place, I'll throw in a thought.

There was some serious foreshadowing of an attack of Hogwarts back in book 1.

American Hardcover SS Page 55
Convo when Hagrid first finds Harry on that island.

*snip* He was takin' over. 'Course, some stood up to him - an' he killed 'em. Horribly. One o' the only safe places left was Hogwarts. Reckon Dumbledore's the only one You-Know-Who was afraid of. Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then anyway.

I bolded the important parts. If something were to happen to DD (which I think it will), then he will no longer be at Hogwarts and there would be nothing to stop LV from attacking the school. I think the mere fact that Hagrid used the words 'not jus' then anyway' speak volumes. LV never attacked the school as of yet, and that statement sure implies that the school will be attacked at another time.

I think by now it's a given that Dumbledore won't be present at the Battle of Hogwarts

hence why I have already formulated a possibile strategic plan....just look at the uber-post on this page.

Oh and i want to add on again....this who (in my opinion and in what most of us have deduced) will be leading in the battle.

--BAD GUYS--

Voldemort- Supreme Commander of the Death Eater Army...he'll mostly likely just be observing...allowing his minions to do his work for him. However, if worse comes to worse...he'll take command and probably personally storm Hogwarts

Lucius Malfoy- he will be the commander of the operation in this battle..judging what went on at the DOM...he seems to be the DE tactical commander.

Draco Malfoy- It is of most of the fandom's opinion that Malfoy has basically seized power (bribes, extortion..Anti-Potterist leader) in Slytherin House. He will orchestrate the inside job.

As for the other DEs...they'll probably be there, just which ones I dunno.

--GOOD GUYS--

Minerva McGonagal- Acting head of Hogwarts..Supreme Commander of the Hogwarts Castle area. Will defer actual command to the original DA...including the trio while she controls the adult forces.

Flitwick- I see him working very closely with Granger to find charms and counter charms for attack and defense. Will be officially incharge of Ravenclaw house forces

Snape- By now I'm sure he'll be found out for what he is...he will try to get those who aren't under Malfoy to fight for Hogwarts.

The rest of the staff will have there importance...I just dunno exactly what at this time.

Ernie Macmillian- Commander of the Hufflepuff Division

Luna Lovegood- Possible commander of the Ravenclaw Division...though for obvious reasons i have my doubts.....

Neville Longbottom- Commander of the Gryfinndor Divison. he will probably be the one assisting Harry in his offensives the most.

Hermione Granger- logistics officer for the Hogwarts Army...she will organize the entire student body into a fighting unit and dem who best can fight. She will be with Flitwick helping him with research AND she will help lead assults for Gryfinndor Division

Harry Potter- He will be in charge of the offensive line and will lead the original DA in assults. He will also most-likely to be the one to go after the enemy officers. Second in command of the Hogwarts Army. Handles the tactical details.

Ronald Weasley- "Field Marshal", essentially, of the Hogwarts Army. While Harry handles tactics, Ron will be in charge of the over all strategy.

Ginny Weasley- Leads the defensive line. Possible leader of the Hogwarts "air force" (aka the combined school teams of Quidditch.

Moody- Will probably lead (along with Kingsley and Tonks) the Auror cavalary...or the entire British Wizarding Army.

That's all for now...just look at this post and the other uber post and tell me what you think.

I can't possibly see Hogwarts getting attacked in the capacity you are talking about.

I mean for one, they have the headmasters watching over the school, eventhough they are in the headmaster's office, the ghosts can still notify them. And if the headmasters are notified that the school is getting attacked, for one they have connections into the Ministry.

So, if the Ministry is alarmed and the word is spread, which it will be, there will be every man, woman, and child in the wizarding world fighting and defending at the Hogwarts' grounds. Come on, in all honesty, what parent who finds out that his child is getting attacked by LV at the school won't go to fight and defend for his child. You would literally have millions of wizards at Hogwarts'. It just seems too far fetched and a la Lord of the Rings.

I mean, maybe in lesser capacity, there could be a possibility that Hogwarts could be attacked. But overall, why rob a bank in the middle of the day in clear view when you can do it at night? You know what I mean.

Someone's been playing a little too much STRATEGO. :p

Someone's been playing a little too much STRATEGO. :p

OR they learned Sun Tzu's Art of War off by heart.

True, the magnatude may be a bit off, but really...with Dumbledore gone Voldemort in his arrogance WOULD rob the bank in the middle of the day. And the ministry, as has been shown, is waaay to bureaucratically unstable that there would be a state of confusion. Also, I am assuming that the ministry would be busy battling in London to protect Diagon Alley. In fact, i'm sure that some other major attack would be conducted ENTIRELY for the purpose of keeping them busy. Voldemort will be OBSESSED with killing off Harry enough to do this type of attack. And if you read the whole post...bear in mind that I HAVE put in the stealth attack in Offensive strategy 1.

And personally, the DA was a step in the right direction. It turned a previously sub-par wizard into a fighter as good as harry. It created a fraternity of fighters that will be, by implication, KEY to battling the dark forces.

Now i admit i might have gone overboard with the military language, with Divisions and Field marshals and the like...but really, it is the perfect description and like i said before...a purely strategic analysis of what a battle of magnatudes great to small would be like.

Also, when it comes to parents coming to there kids rescue, you have to first put into account that apparation is impossible, that they would most likely already have there hands full on another front...and that many of them might already be dead. I am not assuming the conditions of the atmosphere in the books....but during that of his first reign.

memorize Sun Tzu's Art of War? I'll take that as a complement :cool:

Anyway...thanks for the opinions, MORE!!!

EDIT-

Oh and a Lord of the rings-esque battle would be impossible anyway due to lack of manpower at hogwarts....only about 1000 students there according to JKR. My strategy calls for something smaller...roughly equal forces battling each other. Twin Towers this ain't.

I don't think he would with all of the teachers, Dumbledore, The on person who can kill him(Harry), and the Students who are old enough to fight there to help protect it. It would be like trying to attack a citadel where they are training a thousand troops.

You make a good point crumseekerlynch

My overview assumes that Dumbledore is not there (for whatever reason) and if the DE's were able to wreck as much havok as they did during the first reign...then obviously they are just as well trained and apt at magic as the teachers...and are probably more in number.

the students aren't as experianced as the DEs...and i doubt that they've taken on dememntors (who were as good as confirmed to have defected to Voldemort in OotP)

Speaking of the students..this is how I'd classify them in such a battle.

1st Years- Hardly know the basics...let alone enough to go against dark creatures.

2nd Years- Only marginally better than 1st years, they would only be good for giving cover to more advanced wizards/witches.

3rd years- They would be able to keep the 1st and second years in line and help them during duels...but they themselves wouldn't be able to go up a fully trained wizard...They'd be shifted to guard duty I'd think.

4th Years- they'd be able to hold off on their own for awhile aginst adults...but they would need back up eventually. They'd be key to giving support to higher-year students.

5th Years- they'd be able to take on about half a dozen per student if they're apt enough. They'd be the primary defense if the school were to be attacked. Using their prefect-status, those who have been made as such would be able to convey commands from the higher years to the lower years.

6th years- Primary attackers. They'd be the ones to counter against any wave the enemy might throw at them.

7th years- essentially as good as the adults..they'd be able to use there status to command the lower years and act as the "officers" or "generals" of the student army. the Head Boy and Girl would be leading...unless stated otherwise by the staff.

Actually I think that Voldemort had dementors with him last time. It said that he assembled an army filled some of the most feared creatures (that's what it said when talking about giants, and I think that we can safely say that dementors are feared creatures).

I also highly doubt it that Voldemort will invade Hogwarts, since he fears Dumbledore and Dumbledore would obviously be there to stop him if he tried to invade. Plus the school probably has some protective magic on it to protect it from being invaded, after all why else would you not be able to apperate in or out of the school?

IBOOK 3: Sirius Black was able to get Hogwarts AND Gryffindor Tower AND Harry's dormitory with the help of only Lupin.



I know its slightly o/t.. but lupin didnt help sirius get into hogwarts at all.
(unless you count lupin's knowledge of sirius being an animagus and not telling dumbledore as help)

Voldemort can't really invade Hogwarts himself...but the parents of Goyle, Crabbe, and Malfoy can do it for him.

Well, there's no way Voldemort can get into the castle using Dementors.....because Dementors can't get into Hogwarts.....period....

Dumbledore said that so long as he is Headmaster, NO Dementor shall cross the threshold of the castle.....and he meant it.....

I take it literally....so, if Voldy shows up, it's gonna be him, the Death Eaters, and maybe some trolls.....but the Dementors have to stay outside......

I for one, think that Dumbledore will remain alive until the end of the seventh book, he will see this to it's end.....

I'm tired of everybody declaring Dumbledore dead, before the release of the next book.....IF Dumbledore is gonna die (and I'm not so sure he will) it won't happen until the end of the seventh.......

he still has a large role to play, especially when it comes to morale......so long as Dumbledore stands, they have a chance.....

yes DD did say that .. but wasn't he proven wrong in the very next book.. dont have mine available at the moment ... but in GOF.... doesnt Fudge bring in Dementors... to give the kiss to Crouch jr?

i think it is possible that Dementors will cross the threshold one of these times! i mean i think if voldemort brought Dementors then those would be the last worry! he would be more worried about LV and the DEs! but i think Voldemort will attack hogwarts becuase he cant touch HP at the Dursley's unless he kills them so he really only has two options of where to attack him!

yes DD did say that .. but wasn't he proven wrong in the very next book.. dont have mine available at the moment ... but in GOF.... doesnt Fudge bring in Dementors... to give the kiss to Crouch jr?

I was led to believe that Crouch Jr. was led somewhere, outside, or on the roof of the castle.....but it is possible that Fudge DID bring one (or more) into the castle, against Dumbledore's wishes, and without his permission.....

nevertheless, should they come, and Dumbledore still stands, I guarantee they won't make it past the threshold.......that's all there is to it.....

Trolls, Giants, and other dark beasts? maybe, Dementors? never........

There has to be a battle for Hogwarts, its the one thing EVERYBODY looks forward to :)
JKR said herself its "irresistable" to write about a battle around Hogwarts, i mean this would be great, it could fill up plenty of chapters too :p

Voldemort can't really invade Hogwarts himself...but the parents of Goyle, Crabbe, and Malfoy can do it for him.

There is also Nott's Dad.

But now these guys are known to be Death Eaters. They won't be invited back into Hogwarts. I know Malfoy was there a lot.

I also think it's unlikely. I think that it may happen at the Dursley's house. I know he's protected there...but he's protected by Petunia. What if, as in the fifth book, LV draws the Dursleys away falsely, leaving Harry alone in the house? Is he still protected there when Petunia is absent? I have my doubts. That would be a prime opportunity for LV to wage war against Harry, no one else around, no one to protect him. Could be a possibility. Hogwarts has too many folks who will defend Harry, even if Dumbledore is not there.

I don't think he will necessarily have to invade Hogwarts by force. Negative forces have already managed to infiltrate the building (Riddle's diary; Umbridge; "Moody" in GoF), some of which are directly Voldemort-related. With a relatively strong contingent of DE's kids (in Slytherin in particular), there are a number of ways in which Voldemort could control all or parts of Hogwarts, either overtly or covertly. Perhaps he already does...

We've already seen that there is a political angle to Hogwarts, with Malfoy Snr "persuading" the governors to get rid of Dumbledore in CoS. I think that, as more forces (dementors, giants, maybe the centaurs and others to come) line up against Harry and Co, this kind of political pressure will become harder to resist.

Personally, I think some combination of direct force and behind-the-scenes string-pulling will be Voldemort's approach, but either way, I am expecting him to focus plenty of attention to Hogwarts and the surrounding area (grounds and Hogsmead included), at least whilst Dumbledore and Harry remain alive.

Of course he will - I think the final battle will take place in the COS.

He's fearful of DD not Hogwarts. As he grows ever stronger he will be less fearful of DD until the day comes when he must face him. The COS is powerful for the heir of Slytherin. LV would go to the place which gives him the best advantage.

most schools (public and private) at least in the US, actually have a 'board' running it...

these are the people who appoint important staff members, and other things.....

they have similar duties to the 'governors'.....

I love the layout for the Battle at Hogwarts, Dark Emperor.

However, for Voldemort to attack Hogwarts in such a manner, there would have to be a huge distraction for the Ministry to not send reinforcements to Hogwarts. And an attack on Hogsmeade would only allow those at Hogwarts to prepare themselves for the assault. Voldemort would need something major to "lay all his cards on the table" like that. Perhaps the giants could be the distraction.
And dont count out Bellatrix as a Field Marshall. She might not have much tact, but she could easily lead an assault. Same goes for Flitwick. If he was good enough to be a dueling champion, then he should be one of the major ones in the middle of the fight.

And with your choices of the timing of the attack, if I were LV I'd go with #3, but attack the school during the Christmas holidays. Far less people, students and maybe teachers as well, to deal with, but Harry will be there because he hates returning to the Dursleys. Heck, in PoA there were 13 people total at Hogwarts for Christmas.

As much as I love LV, I don't think he will "invade" Hogwarts. Maybe blow it up and steal some stuff, but not "invade".

Not with Dumbldore there he wouldnt it owuld be the dumbest thing he could do. Now with Dumbledore out of the way i could see that as a possibility. He may evenatully bring the battle to hogwarts but not without dumbldore having something to say about it. Voldemort has to be careful waht he does so i dont think he would try anythign that rash just yet. Thats a defiant possibility for book 7 though. I guess we have to wait and see.


yes DD did say that .. but wasn't he proven wrong in the very next book.. dont have mine available at the moment ... but in GOF.... doesnt Fudge bring in Dementors... to give the kiss to Crouch jr?
Fudge brought the dementor in without DD permission

I do not think he will need to INVIDE Hogwarts. if I am to believe the patterns, LV will teach DADA in the 7th book :). Perhaps in disguise, though.
see for yourself
Book1. Evil Quirell posessed by LV
Book 2. A pompous self-important mediocrity
Book 3. All around good guy with a tragic secret
Book 4. Evil Crouch Jr. in service of LV
Book 5. A pompous self-important mediocrity

if we follow the pattern,
Book 6. All around good guy/gal with a tragic secret
Book 7. Someone evil in disguise with connection to LV. As Book 7 is the time for the final show-down, I can see JKR breaking her habit of introducing a completely new person for a DADA teacher. He might appear new, but it will be the oldie Voldie we all know and love all the same.

I also like that post...As it is similar to what I was thinking.

Voldemort has invaded Hogwarts every year Harry has been there. And every year DD doesn't know he's there until it was to late. Unless, when you say invade, you mean....the sword weilding mauraders coming over the mountains.

Voldemort doesn't need to be headmaster of Hogwarts....He has always been, and remains, the Supreme Mugwump of the wizarding world. Just the sound of his name illicits fear in the wizarding community...and that's just when he was an ugly babylike amoeba . When people can start saying his name, and stop cowering behind the baby Harry....Voldemort will lose his real power...the psychological power he holds. Untill then....Voldemorts not joking when he says he can't die!

I really think there is more of a chance attacking Hogsmeade before Hogwarts.. and if Hogsmeade was attacked, Hogwarts would get high security and maybe even, God Forbid it, close the school

I've always had this vision *mostly after the fifth book came out* that Hogwarts was going to explode. Maybe not in the literal sense of the word but explode none the less. They keep saying "Hogwarts is the safest place" to many times. Much like Hermiones "you can't apparate on the grounds" statement. It's said to much to just ignore the statement. Plus I remember reading an interesting post the other day that said something like "When Voldemort knows the prophecy, he will know that he doesn't have to fear Dumbldore.". Which is pretty much a deathsentence for Hogwarts itself. I never really thought about that until I read it.

So will Voldemort invade Hogwarts? Most definately. Course he can invade like he's always done, but I think atleast physically he will come barging into the school soon.

I've always had this vision *mostly after the fifth book came out* that Hogwarts was going to explode. Maybe not in the literal sense of the word but explode none the less. They keep saying "Hogwarts is the safest place" to many times. Much like Hermiones "you can't apparate on the grounds" statement. It's said to much to just ignore the statement. Plus I remember reading an interesting post the other day that said something like "When Voldemort knows the prophecy, he will know that he doesn't have to fear Dumbldore.". Which is pretty much a deathsentence for Hogwarts itself. I never really thought about that until I read it.

So will Voldemort invade Hogwarts? Most definately. Course he can invade like he's always done, but I think atleast physically he will come barging into the school soon.


Isn't if funny that "Hogwarts is the safest place" when time and tima again it's actually proven to be the most dangerous place. Example....
Book One: You can ACTUALLY meet Voldemort there!
Book Two: Get eaten by a Basalisk, and again actually meet Voldemort.
Book Three: Criminals can ESCAPE Azkaban, and GET INTO Hogwarts.
Book four: You can be abducted by Death Eaters there.
Book five: The Ministry of Magic will actually send the most cruel and hideous person they have on staff to be your teacher there. Lastly, the school borders a forest where you could be pretty much eaten by anything...and there's no fence up!

REAL SAFE PLACE!

Isn't if funny that "Hogwarts is the safest place" when time and tima again it's actually proven to be the most dangerous place. Example....
Book One: You can ACTUALLY meet Voldemort there!
Book Two: Get eaten by a Basalisk, and again actually meet Voldemort.
Book Three: Criminals can ESCAPE Azkaban, and GET INTO Hogwarts.
Book four: You can be abducted by Death Eaters there.
Book five: The Ministry of Magic will actually send the most cruel and hideous person they have on staff to be your teacher there. Lastly, the school borders a forest where you could be pretty much eaten by anything...and there's no fence up!

REAL SAFE PLACE!

I agree... it is funny that they say it is the safest place in the world...

But then again, if you remember, Hagrid said that Gringott's was the safest place... except perhaps Hogwarts... and it was broken into.

Aye Aye Aye... These people don't know the defenition of Safe!

It's true - Hogwarts ISN'T safe, we see it time and again...but Harry still believes it to be safe, because he feels it is his real home, and because Dumbledore is there.

An all out assault on Hogwarts in Book 6 is unlikely...but if Dumbledore dies in Book 7 Hogwarts is the most likely location for the final battle.

I think it is significant that Tom Riddle saw Hogwarts in much the same way that Harry does - as his home. He stopped opening the chamber of secrets because he didn't want the school to close, so it is pyschologically important to him as well as to Harry. This makes Hogwarts the most fitting place for the final confrontation between Harry and Voldy.

I agree that for a battle to take place, the ministry would have to be distracted. I believe he'll go for Wizard London in full force while at the same time launch his offensive in Hogwarts. Seeing as London is where the Ministry is actually located, that would be first priority, along with Diagon Alley and St. Mungo's

3a. If Hogwarts was taken in absentia of the trio while they were at Hogsmeade, then first they would have to know about it. Dobby would be the reliable source to tell them. Once aware of whats happened, Ron would lead Hogsmeade's defense, while Harry would go for an attack on the occupied castle itself. Hermione, along with the original DA, would go through the secret entrance at Honeyduke's and either attempt to hit them from behind...or try and defend it from agents of the dark lord.
3b. If Hogsmeade itself was attacked while they were inside, Ron would lead the defense in what is essentially going to be house-to-house combat. Harry would do all he could to break the blockade surrounding the town, while Hermione would be trying to find and destroy DE sleeper units. The original DA would fight against the slytherins with Neville leading them (I believe Neville has about as much ability as Harry...just hasn't relized it fully yet).
Sheesh, what do you do doing your spare time (plan a battle strategy for homework or something?!). Not that I'm against your ideas DarkEmperor.....I think youre battle plans are rather good! Now, I think that either plans 3a. or 3b. are most likely to happen. But I think that Hogsmeade and Hogwarts are both going to be attacked at the same time. The main trio (along w/ Ginny/Neville/Luna) and the DA get wind of it and escape the village before the DE's really start to attack it [Harry reliazes that he can't save the village]. They head up to the cave that Sirius used while he visited Hogsmeade as Snuffles (becuase I think that's been in the shadows for a while and will be used again). After that, either Dumbledore returns (if he's not dead) or they either try to contact headcourters or to go there (or to get help for Hogwarts). Well, it's not as good as the Dark Emperor's battle plan, you can shoot my idea down. Either way, Hogwarts will get attacked and Dumbledore dies (Harry just cannot defeat/kill Lord Voldemort while Dumbledore is still alive). I think that both will happen (KianRosencrantz
I've always had this vision *mostly after the fifth book came out* that Hogwarts was going to explode. Maybe not in the literal sense of the word but explode none the less. They keep saying "Hogwarts is the safest place" to many times.) I couldn't have putted a better way itself. Hogwarts being attacked or Dumbledore being killed (or both) is a time bomb ready to explode!
~LuckyHP~
*Known on the News Clues Discussion Boards as Lucky#7HP*


It's not insane if you know what you are doing.........It's insane that you do it anyway! :cool:

"Never you mind," said Harry roughly.
Ginny raised her eyebrows.
"There's no need to take that tone with me," she said cooly.:evil: .-p.735, OotP, US Hardcover version, Ch.32: Out of the Fire
Go Ginny :tu: ! A proud Ginny/Harry shipper and a Hermione/Ron shipper.

Not if Dumbledore is around he wont! Voldy is no match for my hero!

Voldemort will invade Hogwarts, not by siege, but by stealth.

We know Voldemort can enter Hogwarts in disguise. He found a way to do so in the very first book, so I'm pretty sure a full-powered Voldemort will find a way.

We know that, once inside the school, it is really ridiculously easy to attack the students without being seen. A basilisk spent an entire year turning people into stone, nearly killing them. So, we can conclude that Voldemort will find a hiding place, go out to kill a random student, go back to hiding place, go out to kill another random student, etc. That would be enough to close the school, which already almost happened in CoS.

We are supposing Hogwarts will still work as usual during the last two books. But how can we assure this??

We are thinking of LV as the leader of a TRUE army of Death Eaters and Dementors, aren't we?. If this means that there's gonna be a "magic war" as common muggle wars are (wizards fighting in every city, casting spells against the opponent who appears in every corner...), I think that the days of the common life in the magical world will be over.
In a time of civil war, institutions (schools, hospitals, city halls...) don't work as usual, at least not with the same continuity. I think that in the final part of book 6 or 7, Hogwarts will be closed por security constraints. You know: all students must go back home, stay with their parents and perhaps regroup inside some kind of secure perimeter protected by the Ministry of Magic. Harry will stay with DD and the rest of the OotP members because he has no magical parents or family alive to protect him, and he will keep in touch with Ron as Mr and Mss Weasley is an active member of the Order.
Hermione could be accidentally unable to go back to home, for instance, and so we have the trio formed again, without any need to start attending classes at Hogwarts.

If this theory of mine becomes reality, I will miss so much Hogwarts landscape and adventures. And maybe my POV is so far from JKR's way of writing (I'm talking about wars, and HP is mainly a tale) but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me. Things could not happen the way I describe it, but I think it's pretty possible that Hogwarts has to be closed for a time. What do you think???

Why are you so certian he is going to kill Harry? I think Harry will kill him.

I totally and fully agree!

If Harry dies then Voldemort will have to die as well. One main reason: Nobody would be able to vanquish Lord Voldemort! This is because Harry is the only one who can. :coughprophecycough:

That means that Voldemort would not be stopped and take over the entire world. No author in their right mind would kill off the entire world.

If Harry does die by some chance that would mean that it would kill Voldemort in the process or something like that.

Personally, I believe that Harry won't die, The Dark Lord will be vanquished [that is die] but Tom Riddle will survive.

It's probably not going to happen though. We soon find out though! Can't wait.

I find myself wondering what Voldemort will do now he has been brought back to life.
I think he will find a new ally in the recently disgraced Professor Umbridge.
With Umbridge's inside information, and Voldemort and his army of supporters swelling now he has returned, they will make an attempt to take over Hogwarts.
When there, they will cause untold chaos to the wizarding world, forcing decent witches and wizards underground, just like the Death Eaters had to when Voldemort was defeated.
Anyone else think this might have merit?

This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it will be true. Dumbledore is the only one that Voldemort ever truly feared, so I can hardly immagine him turning up and Hogwarts and pushing Dumbledore out, he'd never allow it! Also, why exactly would Voldie want to take over the school? To control all the kids there? To be able to use them to get at their parents? I just can't see this happening, and the fact that Hagrid said in book 1 'theres no place safer than gringotts, cept' pherhaps Hogwarts' or something along those lines seems that Hogwarts may be protected in ways we don't know. But thats just my view.

I hope not!
I think Hogwarts is the "safe place on Earth" since book 1, and I'm pretty sure the final battle would take place there. A Voldemort win in this battle would mean Harry dead and no Hogwarts. A Harry win would mean Voldemort dead and a ever-lasting life for Hogwarts...

This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it will be true. Dumbledore is the only one that Voldemort ever truly feared, so I can hardly immagine him turning up and Hogwarts and pushing Dumbledore out, he'd never allow it! Also, why exactly would Voldie want to take over the school? To control all the kids there? To be able to use them to get at their parents? I just can't see this happening, and the fact that Hagrid said in book 1 'theres no place safer than gringotts, cept' pherhaps Hogwarts' or something along those lines seems that Hogwarts may be protected in ways we don't know. But thats just my view.
If perhaps Dumbledore was gone for a short time, Voldemort could force his way into the place. Once inside, there are all sorts of magical trinkets and things to augment his power. What better place (now that everyone knows he has returned) to set up his new place of operations, a place where him and his supporters could fight the bad fight against all good magic users.
By forcing everyone underground, it would severely restrict the ability of people to oppose him. From here, he could really unleash hell on the wizarding world.

I've always thought that in the end Voldemort would strike on Hogwarts. It's the one place Harry feels safe. I think that the only way Harry would face up Voldemort now is if Voldemort came to him. Also fighting on familiar ground would give Harry the advantage. I personally think that if there is any small advantages Harry is going to need them. I don't think that Harry is as strong as Voldemort. I could go on about my ideas of how a certain you-know-who will be defeted, but I wont. Wrong forum for that.

I think that Voldemort will attack Hogwarts, yes. Read the editorials on Mugglenet about that.

Nope not in book 6 he won't because unless he has got about 50 deatheaters or more at his side then it wouldn't be worthwhile because there are so many people at hogwarts.maybe we will get to know about professors actually having a life away from Hogwarts and one of them being killed.

I won't be in book six. The seventh

:welcome: to the forums. :D

You might want to post your question or idea here where the topic is currently being discussed. We'd be glad to hear your views in the thread. There is some great discussion to be found here.

Will Voldemort invade Hogwarts? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=36811)

:welcome: to the forums. :D

You might want to post your question or idea here where the topic is currently being discussed. We'd be glad to hear your views in the thread. There is some great discussion to be found here.

Will Voldemort invade Hogwarts? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=36811)

Thanks for the link, BK. :)

Since we have a thread for this discussion, I'll get the two threads merged. Please continue this discussion at the link provided. Thanks and enjoy! :)

It doesn't make so much sense to me. When the Wizardry War has started, the daily way of life in the magical world will be clearly disturbed. Classes at Hogwarts could be interrupted because, if DD is troubled leading the fight vs Voldemort, he could not be avalaible to continue directing Hogwarts day after day. So, Hogwarts will lose its main defense (DD not being 'at home').

And wherever DD goes, Harry goes after there. So, if no one of Voldemort's main opponents is at Hogwarts, why is Voldie still going to attack Hogwarts??

From all the things we know about JKR's magical world, government works in a parallel way to the muggle's ones. So, attacking a school doesn't seem to be a good strategy at all. About magical stuff (wands, conjure books...), Hogwarts could be a good supplier but what about Diagon Alley, and specially Knockturn Alley???

The only one reason that could bring Voldie into the walls of Hogwarts is to capture a traitor (Snape??), but in a time of war, capturing a spy is not the main priority to an attacker. Instead of this, I think they will march towards the Ministry of Magic.

Don't you think so??

I think Voldemort will do just about everything he can to get hold of Harry and whatever else he desires, including invading Hogwarts. Although there will probably be extra security placed over Hogwarts Voldemort is powerfull enough to find away to get in or make someone, or something, get in.


Dumbledore might have to leave the castle at one point, and Voldemort may take that as an opportunity to strike. But there is that little idea about Voldemort not Killing Harry, that Harry could kill Voldemort.

I do think Harry will kill Voldemort, mainly because Harry has defeated him in every attempt he has made. So if Voldemort decides he wants to take a stroll to the Castle and while he's there kill Harry, he might as well be signing his own death wish in my opinion.

probably not then cos voldermort fears dumbledore,right?

i just think that if harry can sneak around in and out of hogwarts and serius black could enter while he was public enemy #1 then why couldnt voldy???


snapelova

There has to be some sort of showdown at Hogwarts. The entire way through the books, it has been said that Hogwarts is impenetrable, LV wouldnt dare attack Hogwarts and that Hogwarts is safe as long a DD is there. It seems to me that these hints are a lead up to something big.

Book 6 is where the trouble will be.
Voldemort will cover the wizarding world in darkness and fright, attack Hogwarts and kill Hagrid.
The half blood prince (Sirius) will be seen in the Mirror Of Erised and will play a HUGE role in the next book.
Book 7 will be the big fight back for the school where everything is thrown at Voldemort, causing his death.

Book 6 is where the trouble will be.
Voldemort will cover the wizarding world in darkness and fright, attack Hogwarts and kill Hagrid.
The half blood prince (Sirius) will be seen in the Mirror Of Erised and will play a HUGE role in the next book.
Book 7 will be the big fight back for the school where everything is thrown at Voldemort, causing his death.


i just agree :D

"bubs" Sirius is a pure blood per OotP remember the family tree on the cabinet thing or something. How could he be the hbp

he have to get through dd first and there isn't a likely hood of that happening anyways.

remember that Trelawny said in the prophecy (poa) " he will rise again... , greater and more terrible than ever he was" perhaps he'll soon find a way to be greater than dd.

Also i don't know about you guys but i haven't realy seen Lord Voldemort act that bad and terrible than before I mean people could hardly talk about those times. What could be worse?

I also recall JK say in question regarding to what character would you be for a day at the Edinburgh book reading (can be located in her site) that she wouldn't wan't to be harry because she knows whats coming for him. Could this possibly be it?

"bubs" Sirius is a pure blood per OotP remember the family tree on the cabinet thing or something. How could he be the hbp
I am of the opinion that people have jumped on the 'Half Blood Prince' title too literally and ignored the other meaning of the title 'Prince of the Half Bloods'.
This is just my opinion (plus another reason-see my sig :eyebrows: :eyebrows: ) but this discussion is reserved for another forum.

It doesn't make so much sense to me. When the Wizardry War has started, the daily way of life in the magical world will be clearly disturbed. Classes at Hogwarts could be interrupted because, if DD is troubled leading the fight vs Voldemort, he could not be avalaible to continue directing Hogwarts day after day. So, Hogwarts will lose its main defense (DD not being 'at home').

And wherever DD goes, Harry goes after there. So, if no one of Voldemort's main opponents is at Hogwarts, why is Voldie still going to attack Hogwarts??

From all the things we know about JKR's magical world, government works in a parallel way to the muggle's ones. So, attacking a school doesn't seem to be a good strategy at all. About magical stuff (wands, conjure books...), Hogwarts could be a good supplier but what about Diagon Alley, and specially Knockturn Alley???

The only one reason that could bring Voldie into the walls of Hogwarts is to capture a traitor (Snape??), but in a time of war, capturing a spy is not the main priority to an attacker. Instead of this, I think they will march towards the Ministry of Magic.

Don't you think so??
Yea- that is a great analysis!

I think Voldemort will try to enter Hogwarts, Tom Riddle did...in a way!
But if Dumbledore doesnt die or leave unexpectedly I think Hogwarts will be ok for a while!

Before the end of the series, Voldemort will attack Hogwarts. The Ministry is seen as the political machine, easily influence by evil as it happened before. Therefore, LV attacking the Ministry in direct assault would be pointless when there are better tactics that can be done to put the Ministry to work in LV's favor. Attacking the Ministry accomplishes nothing.

Hogwarts is different. Everyone considers Hogwarts to be the safest place in the world. As long as Hogwarts stands, hope remains. If LV fights Hogwarts and wins he would accomplish much in one great swoop. With the fall of Hogwarts he would have defeated DD (champion of mudbloods), finally killed the Boy Who Lived, wiped out most of the descendants of those who oppose him, and destroyed that last beacon of hope in the Wizarding World.

If LV wants to win, Hogwarts must fall. So expect the Battle for Hogwarts in Book 7, and LV's new army to be massive and fearsome. A dozen DE's, dementors, and some giants are just the beginning.

This is just my opinion (plus another reason-see my sig :eyebrows: :eyebrows: ) but this discussion is reserved for another forum.

I'd rather say one more thing: I understand it's impossible for us, HP fans, not to dream every day with which character will the HBP be, but you have to remember that when the 4th book came out, we were all stranded, trying to define what the role of that misterious GOBLET OF FIRE will be. And it was a prop, not more important than any other detail from the book. So, HBP could be only a denomination for anyone in the book. We won't discover this til the book is in our hands.

And phane00 , you got a good point in your exposition. Of course, I'm pretty sure that Hogwarts will be the place for the final battle, too. But I was only pointing that in a real war, it wouldn't be so logical to set as our first priority the conquer of a school. Just my opinion.

Greets

In the real world, it wouldn't make much sense to attack a school. But the Wizarding World is different. Dumbledore is at Hogwarts - "the only one he ever feared." Harry Potter, Voldemort's worst enemy, is at Hogwarts. In strategic terms, Hogwarts is less like a school and more like a bastion of defense for the good side.

The MoM is weak and easily invaded - Harry walked right in in OotP, and the Death Eaters got in as well. Hogwarts, on the other hand, was safe even in the midst of the first war. If Voldemort captured or attacked it, there would be huge repercussions in the morale of the Wizarding World - probably similar as if someone attacked the White House in the U.S. in the real world.

I believe that Hogwarts will be under attack in the seventh book. But as for he sixth, I think that is where the prophecy about Voldemort becoming greater and more terrible than before will hold true. JKR did promiss us more deaths in this book. What I expect is that Voldemort will have his DE's coerce wizards to join his side or die in the process, spy on the MoM, perhaps even take down the MoM! But Hogwarts he will not touch until the end!

Voldemort may enlist certain students to join his side (*cough*Malfoy*cough*) and get them do spy on Dumbledore and Harry for him or even help the DE's gain access to Hogwarts.

could happen on book 7.

Voldemort will not touch Hogwarts until book 7. Dumbledore is the only person Voldemort ever feared so it seems Hogwarts would be a last resort for him. Besides, he has spies to do that work him -cough-malfoys-cough-

If Dumbledore is there, I don't think Voldemort will even try to invade Hogwarts. (Coward... :lol:) If Dumbldore is really the only one he ever feared, then he wouldn't dare. He's evil, but not stupid. Dumbledore is really really powerful, so Voldemort wouldn't this soon...

I'm back! (To the one who stated that I do battle strategies for homework...I'm flattered)

In order for a major battle to commense, the British Wizard Army (which must exist in some for or another.....) would have to be diverted. Bear in mind that Jersey is already under Voldemort's control (It is in my opinion that Azkaban Fortress is located there) and will go after London to keep the aforementioned army out of the way for his true target. Now, whether or not they would be aware of this tactic, they would not be able to ignore such an attack, simply because of the fact that both St. Mungo's (An Ivy League medical facility- always important in war) and Diagon Alley (the Wall Street and major supply center of Wizarding Britain), along with the Ministry itself cannot aford to be lost.

People who are using the civil war anology...you are exactly right. Actually, to be more correct....It's an expanded coup de tat on the Fudge (really Dumbledore's) Government.

In such an event, the one instigating the coup needs to control three things-

1. Communications (i.e. Media)
2. Military
3. Central Bank

Voldemort already has his own army, once he gets the other two it would be only a matter of time, which is why protecting Diagon Alley would be just as key to the war as Hogwarts itself, because of Gringotts Bank. As for communications, The daily prophet isn't exactly clean on the corruption record. They'll go with who ever is in control.

Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn't be suprised if Harry and friends were sent to Diagon Alley to help the defense, since it would have the added benefit of buying Hogwarts more time (The less enemies of the dark lord there, the less chance of a siege).

We also must believe that, if Dumbledore isn't dead by then, he'll probably be abroad conducting an Emergency meeting of the International Confederation of Wizards for help. (No way he'll be fool enough to conduct it in Britain with a full blown insurgency there)

(Note- I do not believe that LV had much support (or recognition) outside of the Isles. I believe that during his rule in the 70's, Britain was cut off from the rest of the world sort of like how the Soviet Union was)


That's it for now.

Posted by Dark Emperor
In such an event, the one instigating the coup needs to control three things-

1. Communications (i.e. Media)
2. Military
3. Central Bank

Voldemort already has his own army, once he gets the other two it would be only a matter of time, which is why protecting Diagon Alley would be just as key to the war as Hogwarts itself, because of Gringotts Bank.

I also have been concerned about Gringotts being a target. The goblins are one of the keys to this war. They control the finances of the Wizarding World, and if LV gets them to join his cause he will have a major weapon against the Ministry. An army of creatures that do not require wands to cast magic and can shut down the magical community in an instant.

If they don't side with LV, he might try to eliminate Gringotts altogether, he got in there once before he can do it again. I wonder what the equivalent of a bomb is with wizards. A spell? A potion? Something else entirely?

As far as the "British Wizard Army" is concerned, I think we've already met some of the wizarding military in the books. Not really a formal introduction, but sort of a glance around a pub or at the QWC. I think that the warlocks are wizard soldiers. Just a guess though.

Wizard bomb? Probably a powder keg filled with bery unstable potions ingriedients.

Gringotts, being a bank, is a fortress...probably the most fortified building in London, and as you said before, he has been able to break in before.

An effective and victorious assault on Gringotts all depends on the Goblins, as you pointed out.
Unfortunately, the Fudge Government has been (as has previous administrations before them) quite racist to all non-human (or rather non-wizard) creatures....and that has earned them a reputation of distrust against them. With Harry doing essentially what Fudge feared Dumbledore would do (that is, overthrow him), He has no choice but to step aside (he IS resigning) and allow Dumbledore to, in effect, take over the government (though he himself will not be MM). This helps, as he is a tolerant and very trusting man to all (human or not). Using his negotiating skills he could get the Goblins of Gringotts to join him. Now...why ask a group already in the employ of the Government? Simple. These guys know what's happening and they know that who ever has the gold makes the rules.

Apart from the Bank, The Leaky Cauldron would have to be barricaded both magically and physically to stop anyone from trying to get in via Muggle London.

Being an alley, the strategy for the Battle of Diagon Alley would be very intense, since almost the whole thing is one VERY BIG choke point. Obviously, there will be little side roads like Knockturn Alley and the like, but we must assume (for simplicity's sake) that all the off-shoot roads are all dead ends. At each crossing (when one of the smaller alleys intersect the main street) there will be a defense line facing toward the direction of the Leaky Cauldron to make sure Gringotts is protected (which is on at the opposite end of the road.)

Now, apart from Diagon Alley, we also must worry about the Platform 9 3/4 at King's Cross. The DE Army could use it to hijack the Hogwarts Express and turn it into some sort of armored train and use it to help in their assault of Hogsmeade. Not only that, but the station itself is a pretty hefty piece of magical real estate. So in its own right, it must be protected.

JKR has said that there will be a new minister of Magic. Now it could be that the New minister might be...say...Lucis Malfoy (after he is busted out of Azkaban) or Voldemort himself. I am willing to wager that Voldemort kills Dumbledore by the end of book six and if he, or one of his lacky's, is in charge this gives him the perfect vantage point to take over Hogwarts as Headmaster.

Malfoy as Mom did look easy but now he has been caught as DE would people allow him? There is deffently going to be a break out of the prison though and as many DE have children they will most deffently use them esspecially as the children hate harry as well.
Dumbledore will i think die and when he does teachers will have to keep a closer eye on him but will it help? i reckon Voldemort will get in to the school somehow though as he has done every year.

Not with Dumbledore around he wont. BUt harry and some of his friends know the castle better then anyone. Via the murauders map. Im sure Voldemort dosent know some of the places in the castle and its so big lots of hiding spaces. He would be stupid to do that with some many loyal to voldemort there. Dumbldore and harry fighing voldemort would be funny i bet he couldnt beat both of them at the same time.lol

No he won't envade the school. The only thing he wants at the school is Harry and maybe Dumbledore. If he would try to envade the school he is outnumbered 3 to 1. Just think about it he only has so many deatheaters. I'm guessing around in the twentys or thirtys, against a whole school of students. Not to mention the staff. He would not really get anything out of attacking the school. Although it might come down to that it is highly unlikely. He would be much better off going for the ministry of magic. The ministry regulates all of the wizarding world, Hogwarts doesn't. If he wants control and power he will find it in the ministry of magic, although risky the rewards for him would be profitable. In his case the best thing for him to do is try throwing over the new minister of magic and taking control over the ministry. He did it once already in Order of the Phoenix, when he just went into the ministry. I still wonder how he got into the ministry with all of his deatheaters. If he got into the ministry once un detected he can do it again. And by now his force of deatheaters and creatures is growing. So he easly could throw down the ministry if he wanted to. The best thing for him to do would be just that, to take control of MoM.

Uh...3:1? Where are you getting your statistics from? Hogwarts has only a little over 1000 people, only maybe 20 or so of which are adults. Voldemort has something close to 20-30 death eaters AND a few hundred dementors AND any other creatures who would want revenge for their mistreatment by the Fudge government. And the ministry controls the entire wizarding world? No, it doesn't, it controls only Wizarding Britain....the International Confederation of Warlocks is probably more akin to a world wizarding gov't...and only as a UN-type organization.

Actually, Hogwarts probably has only around 280 students (40 per class x 7 classes). JKR has stated around 1000, but this would require that the average class have 140 students, i.e., over three times what Harry's class has. JKR admits that she does not think well in terms of numbers, and she likes to prove it!


Regardless, the whole scenario is a bit farfetched. Voldemort has no reason to invade. He always has operated with stealth, even while it was known that he was at large. Hogwarts has nothing of which we know that will be of particular use to him.

Also, HP is not LotR. It is not a story about big events. It is a story about an individual. Harry will confront Voldemort alone in the end, probably outside of Hogwarts. If the plot mirror hypothesis is to be believed, then the story will end either at Privet Dr. or at Godric's Hollow.

JKR has said that the next two books are basically parts 1 and 2 of one final story. That story needs to address Harry coming to grips with Dumbledore's philosophy concerning death, as well as issues such as what that philosophy is, what exactly is the link is between Harry and Voldemort, and how Harry will be able to use these truths to defeat Voldemort.

OotP has set the tone. Expect the next two books to be much more character-driven and much less action-oriented than the first four books were.

JKR has said that there will be a new minister of Magic. Now it could be that the New minister might be...say...Lucis Malfoy (after he is busted out of Azkaban) or Voldemort himself. I am willing to wager that Voldemort kills Dumbledore by the end of book six and if he, or one of his lacky's, is in charge this gives him the perfect vantage point to take over Hogwarts as Headmaster.


If you want to look at the WWII, Nazi Germany paralles it would seem likely that Voldemort would take control of the MOM...this would certainly clear the way for Voldemort and cronies to take over Hogwarts. Like you said, Dumbledore would have to be dead for this to happen. I think he's gonna die!
I could definately see a Nazi Germany story line unfolding here. Muggleborns in wizard concentration camps....Voldemort Youth Hogwarts....this could be frightening!

If you want to look at the WWII, Nazi Germany paralles it would seem likely that Voldemort would take control of the MOM...this would certainly clear the way for Voldemort and cronies to take over Hogwarts. Like you said, Dumbledore would have to be dead for this to happen. I think he's gonna die!
I could definately see a Nazi Germany story line unfolding here. Muggleborns in wizard concentration camps....Voldemort Youth Hogwarts....this could be frightening!

Yep. Voldemort takes over MOM and sends MOM representatives to close down the school. The intellectuals (Hogwarts faculty) will be ordered to be killed, just as the intellectuals were in the time leading up to WWII. Voledemort will want no challenge to his power, and will therefore need to get rid of the academics.

Uh...3:1? Where are you getting your statistics from? Hogwarts has only a little over 1000 people, only maybe 20 or so of which are adults. Voldemort has something close to 20-30 death eaters AND a few hundred dementors AND any other creatures who would want revenge for their mistreatment by the Fudge government. And the ministry controls the entire wizarding world? No, it doesn't, it controls only Wizarding Britain....the International Confederation of Warlocks is probably more akin to a world wizarding gov't...and only as a UN-type organization.

First of all where do you get your statistics. A few hundred dementors! Where in the books does it say the population of dementors on Voldemort's side. There could not be that many. Dementors are for the purpose of Azkaban. I don't think there would be hundreds of dementors. And we still don't know that they're officially on his side. And second of all I was only talkng about Britain one and where does it say that that's not the only one. Could you please tell me where in the books it says that. And also what creatures does he have. You make it sound like he has the biggest army of creatures. And i didn't say he could not take control but what's the point of doing so, if you could have the ministry. Please tell me where's all of Voldemort's army. If he has this brillaint army as you have clearly described where were they this long time.

Posted by Dark Emperor. Uh...3:1? Where are you getting your statistics from?

Well let's take a look. Jk said 1000 students. Faculty is about 20. So 1020.
Voldemort: Deatheaters lets say 30 plus VD is 31. So really it's 1020/31. looks outnumbered to me.

Posted by Dark Emperor. Uh...3:1? Where are you getting your statistics from?

Well let's take a look. Jk said 1000 students. Faculty is about 20. So 1020.
Voldemort: Deatheaters lets say 30 plus VD is 31. So really it's 1020/31. looks outnumbered to me.

Yes, but we know that JKR is wrong about that. Classes would have to average 140 students each (and thus about 35 per house) in order to have 1000 students in hogwarts. Harry's class is 100 short on that.

JKR has told us many times that she is pretty hopeless at basic maths. This is another datum supporting her claim!


Yep. Voldemort takes over MOM and sends MOM representatives to close down the school. The intellectuals (Hogwarts faculty) will be ordered to be killed, just as the intellectuals were in the time leading up to WWII. Voledemort will want no challenge to his power, and will therefore need to get rid of the academics.

That scenario has been averted. Voldemort could have done that while his return remained secret. However, it now is well-known. Fudge is not long for the MoM, but he certainly will begin a strong counter-offensive. He'll desparately want to undo his error and try to salvage his political career and his place in history.

The incoming government no doubt will be very tight with Dumbledore, as everything that he has said has been shown to be true. Most of the Death Eaters all have been unmasked, and their free associates will not be popular with the general wizarding public.

Dumbledore will no doubt be asked to become Minister. He will, no doubt, refuse, but a trusted crony of his (perhaps someone to whom we have been introduced) will take over.


So this really removes the "Voldemort takes over the Ministry" scenario. Besides, that would just repeat OotP in too many ways. JKR is not going to do that. If anything is going to be repeated, then it is CoS.

then why did she say that there were a basic 1000 students.

Oh and I have a question where did you get the 140, 35 thing....just wondering.

then why did she say that there were a basic 1000 students.


JKR said that in a question and answer session. You can find it online.

Many fans immediately pointed out that this had to be wrong.

Oh and I have a question where did you get the 140, 35 thing....just wondering.

1000 ÷ 7 = ~142. There are 7 years at Hogwarts, so each year would have to average about 140 students to have about 1000 (980 if the average was exactly 140 per class).

Given that there are 4 houses, you expect about a quarter to go into each house, which is about 35 per house.

However, we know that Harry's year has only 38 students total. We do not know the exact numbers for other years, but we do not have any evidence that they are much larger than that.

Thanks for clearing that up. Jk just can't do math to well....lol

30 death eaters PLUS non human creatures

Thank you Wimsey for pointing it out to me. 280 you say? well then it would be more than equal if not in Voldemort's favor.

Yes I know it's not Lord of the Rings, but that had several thousand soliders on either side. This has a few hundred at best, therefore it would be a MUCH smaller scaled battle (in size) than what we saw/read in LOTR. Besides, Who says large scale conflicts can come about in HP? The war has started again, and uptil now it's been a great cloak and dagger ploy. But i think that's changed. Hogwarts is a strategic target, a fortress that houses two of his most hated enemies and a place where he could start a new generation of purists.

As for the Ministry, I doubt that Voldemort would ever try to take it (he had almost accomplished it in Book 5, but I think that's as close as he will ever get in trying to take it with out force) Not that he'd need the ministry building itself to assert control. In fact I think he'll be counting on it's heavy defenses and the priority of the place to keep them busy as a feint/decoy attack to keep resources tied up and diverted from other areas.

Nazi Germany= Purist wizarding Britain.......how scarily and perilously close they are.....and then there is Grindelwald......

That scenario has been averted. Voldemort could have done that while his return remained secret. However, it now is well-known. Fudge is not long for the MoM, but he certainly will begin a strong counter-offensive. He'll desparately want to undo his error and try to salvage his political career and his place in history.
As of the end of GOF and OOTP Voldemort is still testing the loyalties of his followers, and trying to get his hands on a weapon. Unless V has a well trusted, high ranking follower in the MOM, I don't think he was in any postion to take over, and even then it would have been difficult. Fudge begin a strong counter offensive? Fudge? Maybe...a weak one at first. I think Fudge will soon be arranging for a long sabbatical in Majorica to wait out the war, as was sugested.

The incoming government no doubt will be very tight with Dumbledore, as everything that he has said has been shown to be true. Most of the Death Eaters all have been unmasked, and their free associates will not be popular with the general wizarding public. I think there are members of the MOM who are tight with DD, but I expect the MOM to be in complete disarray...members will be suspicious of each other...lots of finger pointing.


Dumbledore will no doubt be asked to become Minister. He will, no doubt, refuse, but a trusted crony of his (perhaps someone to whom we have been introduced) will take over.
I don't see the MOM getting it's act together that quickly. In the end how effective really is the MOM?


So this really removes the "Voldemort takes over the Ministry" scenario. Besides, that would just repeat OotP in too many ways. JKR is not going to do that. If anything is going to be repeated, then it is CoS.
No, I don't agree. You'll have to give more evidence . Ootp was just a taster of how unstable the MOM is, and how ripe it is for Voldemort to take charge.

Voldemort can take over the ministry, just not through the stealth tactics a la Nazi Germany is what I think Wimsey was getting at (I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.).

I think Fudge will soon be arranging for a long sabbatical in Majorica to wait out the war, as was sugested.

Neville Chamberlain was dead within a year of him being proven wrong about Hitler. Yet he still began a strong counter to Hitler before he was ousted from office that Churchill continued.

So Fudge's impending unseating does not preclude him from beginning the necessary countersteps (at least the ones still available) unless he resigns immediately.

I think there are members of the MOM who are tight with DD, but I expect the MOM to be in complete disarray...members will be suspicious of each other...lots of finger pointing.

I don't see the MOM getting it's act together that quickly. In the end how effective really is the MOM?

They managed to purge Dumbledore and crack down on his supporters in a hurry. This was done over divided opinion, as many DD supporters objected to this. This was also done with prominent DE's nudging them along, all (or most) of whom now are in Azkaban or at least known to be DEs.

In the absence of prior knowledge about the MoM, I would use British Government's reaction to major crises, which historically has been to unite and focus on the common enemy.

No, I don't agree. You'll have to give more evidence . Ootp was just a taster of how unstable the MOM is, and how ripe it is for Voldemort to take charge.

That simply does not follow. The MoM was in denial. It no longer is in denial, and probably will follow the historical pattern of becoming extremely focussed on the crisis at hand. Voldemort's main supporters now are in disgrace. Even once they return, they will not be able to simply waltz into the Ministry and take over.

Even in the prior war, Voldemort operated through stealth and secrecy. He will have to continue in this manner, but with the added problem of having had is most prominent DEs outed. Yes, he might still have some more - he almost certainly does. But given that he now has fewer than he did in the 1970's and given that he did not have the followers to overtly take over the MoM in the 1970's, it follows that he does not have the supporters now.

Also, Dumbledore's popularity now will skyrocket. He got it right and everyone will be bending over backwards to either make up for the OotP year or to prove that they knew that he was right all along.


Voldemort can take over the ministry, just not through the stealth tactics a la Nazi Germany is what I think Wimsey was getting at (I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.).

Well, that Nazi's did not exactly take over via stealth. They accrued a big block in Parliament before they took over.

Also, my point really was that OotP was leading to a way for Voldemort to take over. However, this path relied on the wizarding world not admitting that he was back, the discrediting of Dumbledore, and the subtle machinations of DEs who still were highly regarded in general society.

Now it is known that Voldemort is back, Dumbledore has been vindicated and validated, and the Malfoy's, Avery's, etc. have been stripped of political influence. Voldemort cannot take over via stealth anymore, at least not that way.

Again, this story is not about big battles (even if one has happened). It is and will be about Harry. He will face Voldemort alone in the end.

The Wizarding World has an annoying habit of either putting its head in the sand or sticking its finger in the air to see which way the political winds are blowing. Fifteen years prior they were holding up a baby as their savior....Harry Potter was the one that made Voldemort go away at last. As soon as that same child even hints that Voldemort might be back, they were ready to all but hang him. Fickle...hmmm. This is a society that doesn't like someone telling them what they don't want to hear. Yes, these people will truely be effective in ralling against Voldemort. If they new about the prophesy they would be more than willing to throw Harry at the problem again.
Who's historical pattern of being extremely focussed on the crisis at hand are we talking about...it wasn't Germany's.

Voldemorts power is that his very name elicits fear. This is all he needs. How is that he relies on secrecy and slealth? You really have to get the word out to have that effect on society. Has anybody ever wondered why there was a need for an Order the first time around? Could it be that the MOM really can't be relied on?

To take control of the MOM Voldemort doesn't have to rely on followers...he has to rely on those who will fear him, and back down...or look the other way.

Your right, this story isn't about big battles. It's about Harry and Voldemort. All the more reason the MOM won't do anything effective, and all the more reason we could see Voldemort take control of the MOM. All of this is dependant on DD's death.

Your right, this story isn't about big battles. It's about Harry and Voldemort. All the more reason the MOM won't do anything effective, and all the more reason we could see Voldemort take control of the MOM. All of this is dependant on DD's death.

The plot does not need that. Moreover, JKR will run the risk of being criticized for strong plot contrivances should she do that. There are plenty of ways in which Voldemort can get to Harry without controlling the Ministry that rely instead of Harry's (and Ron's, Hermione's, etc.) characters as they have been developed through these books.

Indeed, neither DD nor the MoM can do anything too effective. We know that, for whatever reasons, only Harry can truly defeat Voldemort. This means a maximally efficient MoM might help set up the circumstance where Harry and Voldemort can face off (although Harry obviously needs to evolve a bit before that happens).

I think that there is some credence to the plot-mirror model. In particular, I look for the story to conclude either at Privet Dr. or (less probably) at Godric's Hollow. If JKR stays true to the story as she has written it so far, then it will be set up largely by Harry's character and the actions of a few individuals, not by large mechinations outside of Hogwarts.

There are far more Voldemort supporters and dark wizards than has been uncovered so far.
Do people really think that KnockTurn Alley which specialises in Dark Magic items would exist only for 50 people.?????
I would base the world on something like 60%-40% good wizards to bad wizards. Otherwise KnockTurn Alley would not survive. And don't forget Durmstrangs Wizarding School actually TEACH the dark arts to it's students.
Now that Voldemort has returned and announced his return to the public, bad people will be drawn to him. Who knows what people will do for power?
Book 6 WILL be a takeover by Voldemort either of Hogwarts, or the Ministry Of Magic. Professor Umbridge will return and provide the information Voldemort requires for the takeover.

There are far more Voldemort supporters and dark wizards than has been uncovered so far.
Do people really think that KnockTurn Alley which specialises in Dark Magic items would exist only for 50 people.?????
I would base the world on something like 60%-40% good wizards to bad wizards. Otherwise KnockTurn Alley would not survive. And don't forget Durmstrangs Wizarding School actually TEACH the dark arts to it's students.
Now that Voldemort has returned and announced his return to the public, bad people will be drawn to him. Who knows what people will do for power?
Book 6 WILL be a takeover by Voldemort either of Hogwarts, or the Ministry Of Magic. Professor Umbridge will return and provide the information Voldemort requires for the takeover.

I would put the number of bad wizards significantly lower. Remember, not even all Slytherins are bad, and neither are all Durmstrangs (Krum isn't evil, at least as far as we know.) Perhaps around 10% would be a better estimate (perhaps a bit high?)

Also, pure-blooded families are relatively rare, and remember Sirius's comment about how his parents were happy about Voldemort's agenda until they found out what he was prepared to do in order to implement it. Suggesting that not even all of the bigoted people are willing to use the Dark Arts to get their agenda accomplished.

Most of Voldemort's army was either non-wizarding folk (giants, trolls) or Imperio'ed/blackmailed/cowardly people who weren't actually evil. The DEs were his only loyal followers, and they're a fairly small group.

The plot does not need that. Moreover, JKR will run the risk of being criticized for strong plot contrivances should she do that. There are plenty of ways in which Voldemort can get to Harry without controlling the Ministry that rely instead of Harry's (and Ron's, Hermione's, etc.) characters as they have been developed through these books.

Indeed, neither DD nor the MoM can do anything too effective. We know that, for whatever reasons, only Harry can truly defeat Voldemort. This means a maximally efficient MoM might help set up the circumstance where Harry and Voldemort can face off (although Harry obviously needs to evolve a bit before that happens).

I think that there is some credence to the plot-mirror model. In particular, I look for the story to conclude either at Privet Dr. or (less probably) at Godric's Hollow. If JKR stays true to the story as she has written it so far, then it will be set up largely by Harry's character and the actions of a few individuals, not by large mechinations outside of Hogwarts.

Strong plot contrivances? It's not as if the idea of Voldemort taking over is farfetched. In fact, it's kind of expected. It also falls quite in line with some subplots in the story. We have been given time and time again examples of how hypocritical (statue at the MOM), unsympathatic (plight of house elves...Lupin...etc.), and patronizing (muggles...even Mr Weasley is guilty of this) the wizarding world is. As the MOM is the embodiment of these flaws, it is the MOM that will crack first. Because of all of all these flaws (that have been centuries in the making), it would actually be a contrivance to suggest that the MOM will redeem itself in the course of a year, and manage to get enough collective courage to even think of helping Harry defeat Voldemort.

There will be some in the MOM who support Harry...there will be some who don't....most importantly there will be some who look the other way to protect their own skins..I expect there will be many of those.

What does not follow is....the man who used Dementors to protect himself from Sirius Black will have enough courage to fend off Voldemort just to retain his power. I expect he might try to get others to do it, but when that fails...he'll be gone.

On the last part...I agree with you!

Well, that Nazi's did not exactly take over via stealth. They accrued a big block in Parliament before they took over

Yeah, I know but I couldn't think of what else to say at the time. In anycase they went the back door instead of just toppling the Weimar Republic outright (After the putsch anyway)

Enid and Wimsey are right when they say it isn't about big battles, however that doesn't mean it won't happen. The Marauders technically have no relevance to the over all story arc, it's just development for harry (which is key, don't get me wrong) yet, we as the fandom still consider them a very important factor. A battle/siege of Hogwarts would be the same way. Therefore, relevance to the plot as to WHY a battle would happen is sort of a moot point.

Despite the title, I think this thread is more as to how it would happen and in what circumstances rather than if, since we just don't know. JKR throws too many screwballs for anything to be concrete, yah? That's why I don't really bother with why/why not it would occur.

I most definately think that Voldemort will invade Hogwarts. Hagrid said that he didn't dare last time but the prophecy says that he will be stronger than ever...I think his arrogance will lead him to wage a battle at Hogwarts--besides I think it would be way cool. Think of all the objects at Hogwarts that we just take for granted, the armor, the pictures, the moving staircases, the statues etc...a battle at Hogwarts would just be awesome to read about.

speaking about the armor at hogwarts...it just occured to me that they could be animated into battle....intresting.....

Voldemort may indeed try to invade Hogwarts, but I see no good reason for it except trying to take out Harry or if he wants to kill 'the only one he ever feared' once and for all. Still, Voldemort will probably have a hard time breaking in, as I bet this castle is more than just the creaky, ancient castle we may think it is. It's been said there are countless spells, seals, and charms on the castle, which I'm guessing some are powerful defensive mechanisms that will be used if necessary. Just watching Filch securing the castle in the PoA movie sent shivers down my spine, like the door with a thousand locks and the closing, creaky gate. That told me Voldemort and his army won't have it easy as marching up to the front doors with a hollowed out log, in hopes of barging the door down lol. Nope, I believe Hogwarts is extremely well-protected, and Voldemort will have to use every ounce of cunning and power he possess to break in.

I agree with you whole heartedly...just one problem.

He has Wormtail.

that means he knows the secret entrances and could possibly have inside help in slytherin as well.
A fort is only as good as it's defenders, and with possibly (but not definately) a fourth of them under his sway.....I'm slightly dubious about it's safety.

i thought that was sort of a given

You know, I never really thought about it. He kind of already has with the whole Tom Riddle thing, and he was hanging out in the forbidden forest with professor Quirrel. But a full on scale attack of the school, it's plausible, but the first thing that has to happen is Dumbledore has to die--he's the only one that Voldemort fears and as long as Dumbledore is still around he won't attack the school directly..., but indirectly.....hmmm...

Voldermort has been in the school in book 1 as part of the teacher, Prof. Quirrel, he was in book 3 as young Voldermort, he managed to get a couple of spies into Hogwarts in book 4 and got Harry out of Hogwarts again in book 4 and 5..so he's done it before...and Dumbledore didn't stop him...he's pretty good isn't he.... :sad:

As hermoine always says noone can enter Hogwarts as it is guarded by spells & enchantments.
With Dumbledore there no one will dare to try

not sure if this has been asked, if so I apologize.

What would LV have as a motive to invade Hogwart's?

There's an obvious morale-sort of motive for invading Hogwarts.
Even in the middle of the first war, Hogwarts was always secure. If Voldemort was to successfully attack Hogwarts, it would destroy one of the last bastions of complete safety in the Wizarding World. Hogwarts is more secure that the MoM (as shown by the events of OotP.) If Voldemort could invade, then it would be a serious blow to the morale of everyone who opposed him, and might help turn the tide of war in his favor.

Also, Harry's at Hogwarts, and Voldemort wants to get at him. Right now, Dumbledore's the only person keeping him from invading that castle. If DD dies, I think we'll see an attack.

LV is not stupid, evil yes stupid no. If the odds are not in his favor, he simply will not attack. He will probably try to entice HP out with some sort of ruse or the like.
If DD disappears and he thinks in his interests, then yes its time to be afraid very afraid.
Giants and their ability to dispel magic and their proven ability to destroy and wreak havack, might prove to be one of the ways he wishes to go. Kinds of even up the odds doesn't it?

Voldermort has been in the school in book 1 as part of the teacher, Prof. Quirrel, he was in book 3 as young Voldermort, he managed to get a couple of spies into Hogwarts in book 4 and got Harry out of Hogwarts again in book 4 and 5..so he's done it before...and Dumbledore didn't stop him...he's pretty good isn't he.... :sad:

This is a point that just can't be highlighted enough. It's been discussed before, but is largely ignored. Voldemort has "invaded" in every book, directly or indirectly. Hogwarts is not safe and never has been safe. This is just one of many lies the Wizarding World tells itself, along the same lines as..."Voldemort is dead and won't come back" or "As long as Dumbledore is around, your safe" . No matter how many times Voldemort gets into Hogwarts, no one ever asks....Why didn't Dumbledore know? Could it be that the Wizarding World has built up Dumbledore to extraordinary standards just as it has done with Voldemort and Harry. I think this is the case. I think these false beliefs are going to be shaken...with the death of DD, and a take over of the MOM and Hogwarts. The lesson that needs to be learned is that WW can't always look to a hero to save them...

I think he will try to invade the school, but won't succeed. The final showdown between Voldemort and Harry might take place in Hogsmeade. I don't think that Dumbledore will make the end of book 7.

Voldermort has been in the school in book 1 as part of the teacher, Prof. Quirrel, he was in book 3 as young Voldermort, he managed to get a couple of spies into Hogwarts in book 4 and got Harry out of Hogwarts again in book 4 and 5..so he's done it before...and Dumbledore didn't stop him...he's pretty good isn't he.... :sad:

That is but one person each and every time however. We're talking about a massive invasion of Hogwarts. No one in their right mind would try and attack it. LV would be way outnumbered and within minutes after they started attacking Hogwarts members of the Order as well as the Ministry would be there. It's suicide for LV and his DE because he's outnumbered.

Plus, that is not how LV works. He likes to make small attacks here and there when no one is looking. He has to work behind the the scenes, or else he'll lose again. Voldemort will choose to ambush Harry when he is away from the school or once again try to lure him out of it. So I still stay with the quote that there is no place safer than Hogwarts.

Also, that just wouldn't be JK's style of writing. That's too close to that of Tolkien and I'm sure that she wishes to distinguish(sp?) herself from him. Well that's what I think after going over all the pros and cons of it...there just isn't enough rewards for LV even if he did try/suceed which would be impossible in my opinion, but of course many of you will think otherwise probably.

But the difference now is that he's out in the open and the wizarding world knows of his existance.
Stealth was only out of nessessity...now that he's there, he'll make an active campaign against the WW.

How hard would it be to attack Hogwarts? I mean Sirius got in by knowing a few passways but does Hogwarts have defences for things like an invasion.

Plus Voldemort is back to his full form and is only suppose to get more powerfull, remember Trelawny's prophecy. His arrogance is only going to increase, maybe even so that he'll think DD is nothing compared to him now.

Well DD is older now, and time does effect humans abilty to fight even if its magic. Which I bet Voldemort has thought of more then once

How hard would it be to attack Hogwarts? I mean Sirius got in by knowing a few passways but does Hogwarts have defences for things like an invasion.

Hogwarts IS a castle y'know

Hogwarts IS a castle y'know


But how hard would it be to break into it with force? I mean the Founders made that castle for a school not a battle

I think he'll at least try...or try to draw Harry out of Hogwarts yet again because ultimately we will have to see a final showdown between Harry and Voldemort!

speaking of showdowns...I could see a Malfoy/Weasley showdown happen during the battle. Through out the series everyone has had a swing at him BUT ron. Hermione in book 3, harry in book 5...the battle of hogwarts would be the perfect backdrop for the big showdown to occur between the ferret and the weasel.

Posted by Dark Emperor
Through out the series everyone has had a swing at him BUT ron.

Actually, Ron was the first to take a swing at Malfoy. In PS/SS, Ron and Neville attacked Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle during the quidditch match when Snape was the referee.

Posted by fireangel265
But how hard would it be to break into it with force? I mean the Founders made that castle for a school not a battle

You all know, of course, that Hogwarts was founded over a thousand years ago - the precise date is uncertain - by the four greatest witches and wizards of the age. They built this castle together, far from prying Muggle eyes, for it was an age when magic was feared by common people, and witches and wizards suffered much persecution.
-- Professor Binns

Knowing the situation, the founders would have placed many security measures throughout the school they built. Not to mention that the school's security had probably been upgraded many times due to magic evolving and more than likely previous attacks on the school. For a building as massive and as important as Hogwarts, there must be more things, spells, enchantments, etc.. being used to protect it and its charges. Sneaking in is much easier than a full assault. However, for LV to become seamingly unstoppable, Hogwarts must be taken in full. Infiltration may start it, but the destruction of Hogwarts would signal the fall of the last place of hope in the wizarding world.

I think all of the books are leading up to a battle at Hogwarts. I even believe that the final DADA teacher may be Voldemort himself unless Snape finally gets it. He has infiltrated the school twice so far with the assistance of Prof. Quirrel and Ginny and he has planted at least one spy, Barty Jr two if you count Peter Pettigrew.

We have seen lots of references to plumbing throughout the series and even know that it connects to the lake, which itself connects to underground rivers (think Durmstrang ship). That along with the secret passages, proximity to the forbidden forest, and air space make the castle incredibly vulnerable.

HEY EVERYBODY! How yalls doin?

Wrong thread Hagrid's_hot....moving on.

Yes, the lake could prove an intresting twist.....

You also might like Accessibility of Hogwarts (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=34077&highlight=Hogwarts)

I think that as long as Dumbledore remains at Hogwarts they are safe.
agreed.

Posted by hpfan_08
I think that as long as Dumbledore remains at Hogwarts they are safe.

Oh yeah, DD's been a real key in the school's safety for the last 5 years.

In SS/PS, Voldemort sneaks in with Quirrell and DD doesn't even suspect Quirrell of wrongdoing because he was one of the teachers handpicked to protect the stone. Nice job there.

In CoS, a giant snake goes around the school almost killing everyone it comes across. DD can't find the snake, the person who opened the Chamber of secrets, or the Chamber itself which has been at Hogwarts for nearly 1000 years and this happened twice during his tenure at Hogwarts. How can a 5th year student like Riddle and a 2nd year student like Harry find the entrance while a brilliant wizard like DD, who has been there for at least 50 years, could never find it? Doesn't Filch, at the least, clean the bathrooms and might have mentioned a wierd etching of a snake on the tap in the girls bathroom?

In PoA, an escaped convict comes to Hogwarts. DD believes he's there to kill Harry, so dementors are brought in to increase the security measures at Hogwarts. However, he does get into the castle two times. The first time, he enters during a quidditch match and is only stopped by the Fat Lady. How in the world did he make it that far inside? The Gryffindor tower is like 7 floors up from the entrance. Yet, he made it all the way to the tower door. If the Fat Lady had gone off into another painting, he would have broken in for sure. The second time he had the passwords, got into the tower, and into Harry's room. If he had wanted Harry dead, Harry would have died right there. Yet again, where was the security? He again walked right up to the tower untouched. Would it strike anyone else as odd that a big black dog was wandering around the school at night when no dogs are allowed at Hogwarts?

In GoF, under the "watchful" eye of DD, fake!Moody pretends to be DD's good friend, enters Potter into the Triwizard under a 4th entry, helps Potter get past all the tasks of the Triwizard, murders Crouch Sr. on the school grounds, and changes the cup into a portkey to send Potter to LV. Now I know that Potter and co. didn't know Moody well enough to know that he was fake!Moody. DD, on the other hand, couldn't tell the difference between the real Moody and someone who looked and sounded like him and he was around fake!Moody for the entire term.

In OotP, of all the people to teach Harry Occulmency, DD decides that Snape is the best choice, even when DD himself is a master Occulmens. Those two never got along nor accomplished much because of their bickering. End result, Snape stops teaching Harry Occulmency, Harry allows LV to trick him into going to the Ministry, Harry endangers the lives of 5 other students, and Sirius gets killed. Also, DD couldn't find anyone to teach DADA that year knowing that Fudge will put one of his people in Hogwarts if DD doesn't hire anyone. There was a former DADA teacher sitting back at Grimmauld Place who could have used the job, another who was supposed to teach last year, and a current potions teacher who would love to teach the subject. Three people that I can think of could have taken the job, but DD didn't get anyone to teach DADA. So then Umbridge comes to Hogwarts giving Fudge and LV an eye and an ear on DD's plans.

If DD is the key to Hogwarts' survival, then things don't look good for the school. DD is brilliant, but he does have flaws like everyone else. And as Harry can bypass LV's flaws and win, LV does the same to DD. DD isn't the key to Hogwarts' survival, and DD knows it.

Maybe Dumbledore was thinking about more important things?

important how so?

hogwarts will obviously be seiged or at least attempted to be sieged by voldymort . I dont know about most people but that seems pretty obvious to me i mean what else has he got to do? he can kill people and stuff sure but the order will be there to stop him causing attrition (very wrong word but i remember something like that in a game i used to play your units lost health if u went into your enemy's land without declaring war) and losing death eaters for no good reason, so i think its likely that with both harry and DD sitting at hogwarts with a bunch of useless (so he thinks) students around them, Voldy will amass an army and try to take hogwarts (because everyone knows its quantity not quality ex. 5000 will 90% of the time win against 500 of course unless its harry potter because thats most likely going to be how the final battle will be) (in my eyes at least)

Oh yeah, DD's been a real key in the school's safety for the last 5 years.

In SS/PS, Voldemort sneaks in with Quirrell and DD doesn't even suspect Quirrell of wrongdoing because he was one of the teachers handpicked to protect the stone. Nice job there.

In CoS, a giant snake goes around the school almost killing everyone it comes across. DD can't find the snake, the person who opened the Chamber of secrets, or the Chamber itself which has been at Hogwarts for nearly 1000 years and this happened twice during his tenure at Hogwarts. How can a 5th year student like Riddle and a 2nd year student like Harry find the entrance while a brilliant wizard like DD, who has been there for at least 50 years, could never find it? Doesn't Filch, at the least, clean the bathrooms and might have mentioned a wierd etching of a snake on the tap in the girls bathroom?

In PoA, an escaped convict comes to Hogwarts. DD believes he's there to kill Harry, so dementors are brought in to increase the security measures at Hogwarts. However, he does get into the castle two times. The first time, he enters during a quidditch match and is only stopped by the Fat Lady. How in the world did he make it that far inside? The Gryffindor tower is like 7 floors up from the entrance. Yet, he made it all the way to the tower door. If the Fat Lady had gone off into another painting, he would have broken in for sure. The second time he had the passwords, got into the tower, and into Harry's room. If he had wanted Harry dead, Harry would have died right there. Yet again, where was the security? He again walked right up to the tower untouched. Would it strike anyone else as odd that a big black dog was wandering around the school at night when no dogs are allowed at Hogwarts?

In GoF, under the "watchful" eye of DD, fake!Moody pretends to be DD's good friend, enters Potter into the Triwizard under a 4th entry, helps Potter get past all the tasks of the Triwizard, murders Crouch Sr. on the school grounds, and changes the cup into a portkey to send Potter to LV. Now I know that Potter and co. didn't know Moody well enough to know that he was fake!Moody. DD, on the other hand, couldn't tell the difference between the real Moody and someone who looked and sounded like him and he was around fake!Moody for the entire term.

In OotP, of all the people to teach Harry Occulmency, DD decides that Snape is the best choice, even when DD himself is a master Occulmens. Those two never got along nor accomplished much because of their bickering. End result, Snape stops teaching Harry Occulmency, Harry allows LV to trick him into going to the Ministry, Harry endangers the lives of 5 other students, and Sirius gets killed. Also, DD couldn't find anyone to teach DADA that year knowing that Fudge will put one of his people in Hogwarts if DD doesn't hire anyone. There was a former DADA teacher sitting back at Grimmauld Place who could have used the job, another who was supposed to teach last year, and a current potions teacher who would love to teach the subject. Three people that I can think of could have taken the job, but DD didn't get anyone to teach DADA. So then Umbridge comes to Hogwarts giving Fudge and LV an eye and an ear on DD's plans.

If DD is the key to Hogwarts' survival, then things don't look good for the school. DD is brilliant, but he does have flaws like everyone else. And as Harry can bypass LV's flaws and win, LV does the same to DD. DD isn't the key to Hogwarts' survival, and DD knows it.

Good Luck to you Plane00! No matter how much this is pointed out there are some who insist Hogwarts is safe...they must be wizards! By the end of GOF we should've seriously been questioning the integrity of that notion. The statement, "We're safe as long as DD is around", should also be called into question. I think DD is a great wizard...no doubt better than most, but we should really be listening to what DD is telling us...he makes mistakes too!


I'm certain JKR has been providing us with a false sense of security. We bought the same lie the Wizarding World's been telling themselves, and there's really no bases for it. I think the above statements were ment to give us some insight into how irrational, egocentric, and cowardly the general populous is, and this will be it's downfall, or at least shake it to it's senses.

If you think about it both Harry and DD have been greatly used...scapegoat and Hero are interchangeable in the wizarding world.

I love the points you made!

i dont think Voldemort can get in as long as Dumbledore is headmaster (sorry if someones already said this)

I think Voldemort will definately be entering Hogwarts.

I think that the ultimate place of security has to be breeched to show Voldemorts true power. How else can the books reach climax?

How indeed.

Someone post their strategy on the battle, unless y'want me to repost?

A giant wooden owl is gonna be wheeled up to the Hogwarts gates...once in a thousand Death Eaters (Where do you get your statistics?...I make them up!) will abush....sparking the phrase, "Never look a gift owl in the beak."

You better go ahead and repost your battle plans.

A giant wooden owl is gonna be wheeled up to the Hogwarts gates...once in a thousand Death Eaters (Where do you get your statistics?...I make them up!) will abush....sparking the phrase, "Never look a gift owl in the beak."

Heheh. That's actualy be sort of cool. Alright I'll repost then---



This is purely a strategic overlook of the Battle of Hogwarts. I am assuming that a great battle does take place, and that Voldemort has an extremely immense army, so I'm not going to dispute why/why not an attack will happen.

First off, the timing of the attack-

1. Voldemort attacks while students are enroute to or back from Hogsmeade, there by keeping them weak in both places and keeping them isolated in the path between.

2. Voldemort launches an attack on Hogsmeade while the students are there. As Hogsmeade will not be nearly as fortified as the castle, this will make it easier on the DE Army.

3. Voldemort storms the castle directly (with all the students there), with help from a mobilized Slytherin House, led by Draco, there by starting a two-pronged assult on the castle.

Second, the units used in the attack-

I believe Voldemort's Army will have to be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- DE members
Second-Tier Officers- Goblins, DE-House Elves
"enlisted" units- Trolls, Dementors, Dragons, other various creatures

The Hogwarts army (essentially a more powerful and expanded version of the original DA) I believe will be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- The school staff, Aurors
Second-Tier Officers- members of the original DA, the Trio
"enlisted" units- Ravenclaw Division, Hufflepuff Division, Gryfinndor Division, Slytherin Militia (for the few members who remain loyal to Hogwarts)

Thirdly, the type of attack (this relates heavily with the timing of the attack)-

1. Using Wormtails knowledge, Voldemort sends in "sleeper cells" (aided and abetted by Slytherin House) to back up what will eventually be a Slytherin uprising (and also to scout for traitors to help them in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw and Gryfinndor) while DE's control an army of Trolls to keep the staff busy while he seizes key points inside the castle.

2. An attack while the students are enroute to or from Hogsmeade, Voldemort would use trolls and other creatures to attack on both sides of the path, keeping them occupied while dementors or goblins (im going by their intelligence: trolls are stupid, so they'll be used only for simple tasks, while goblins and dementors will be used for more advanced manuvers {like occupation}) to take Hogsmeade. After they have secured the town, they will order the Slytherins to attack the still-isolated students on the path.

3a. Voldemort leads a full-scale siege against Hogwarts while all students (including the Trio) are at Hogsmeade. Hogwarts would be grossley under-manned with only the staff (roughly two dozen teachers), untrained 1st years, and mediocre 2nd years. With the castle under his control, the seemingly-undefendable Hogsmeade would be massacre zone for siege attacks.

3b. Voldemort surrounds and secures the area around Hogsmeade while all the students are there and isolates them from any reinforcements (i.e. aurors or teachers). DE sleeper units travelling with Slytherin reveal themseleves and take the most important buildings (especially Honeyduke's).
House-to-House fighting ensues with Slytherin giving out positions and manuvers of the Hogwarts Army secretly while pretending to be apart of the effort.

Now for the defense strategy-

1. The Gryfinndors (Trio especially) will be very VERY suspicious of Slytherin and would be watching every move. Using some inside help (from a sympathetic Slytherin or the castle house elves) to keep tabs on them. Harry would have the tunnels watched by the DA/HA, while Ron (whom I believe to be a strategic genius, thereby being the DA/HA "Field Marshal") would secure the castle's key locations. Hermione would probably use her knowledge to find out spells that can detect dark forces or see through invisibility cloaks (like Moody's eye). With the Slytherins closely watched, they won't be able to do anything without Harry or Dumbledore's knowing. If they do manage to pull off the initial two-pronged attack, It will be a classroom-to-classroom warfare type of sitiuation, and the key objective would be to capture Slytherin dungeon and, possibly, the Chamber of Secrets. The outside attack would be very intense, and the castle defense would have to be used to its fullest, with emphasis on protecting the castle doors and secret passages.

2. Assuming that the Trio is among the students that would be caught during the attack between Hogwarts and Hogsmeade, Harry and Ron (along with any teachers who were with them) would immediately take command of the situation, having the students closest to either the castle or the town go back there and the students to far away from both to try to fight off the army and keep the route open for supplies and reinforcements. Hermione would be charged with trying to organize their forces (according to magical power) and command the logistics needed to fight. The original DA would be attempting to retake Hogsmeade along with the full-grown wizards there. Neville would be charged with rebuffing the Slytherin attacks along with Ginny and Luna.

3a. If Hogwarts was taken in absentia of the trio while they were at Hogsmeade, then first they would have to know about it. Dobby would be the reliable source to tell them. Once aware of whats happened, Ron would lead Hogsmeade's defense, while Harry would go for an attack on the occupied castle itself. Hermione, along with the original DA, would go through the secret entrance at Honeyduke's and either attempt to hit them from behind...or try and defend it from agents of the dark lord.

3b. If Hogsmeade itself was attacked while they were inside, Ron would lead the defense in what is essentially going to be house-to-house combat. Harry would do all he could to break the blockade surrounding the town, while Hermione would be trying to find and destroy DE sleeper units. The original DA would fight against the slytherins with Neville leading them (I believe Neville has about as much ability as Harry...just hasn't relized it fully yet)

There is more, but that is more detailed and what i just described was the broad strategy.

Toodles...

NOTE- I have obviously taken some liberties and made certain assumptions with this overlook. Most of what I have put is generally accepted, and note that the emphasis of this was purely on strategy...NOT who would lead what.

I really would like 2 c Voldermort try 2 invade Hogwarts because it sounds like a really interesting though (even though I wouldn't want anybody getting hurt) But if no one else could invade Hpgwarts (save Sirus) why should we think that Voldermort could. Hwever... Voldermort has proven himself to be not that normal in the wizarding world if you catch my drift lol. If he did invade Hogwarts I think it would enhance the book so much because I'd like to see how a school of magic would fair against Voldermort and his death eaters nevermind Dumbledoor. I know I would get a kick out of it. :evil:

I think that an attack against Hogwarts also forces the students to either unite and defeat the Deatheaters or divide and let Voldemort take over. Otherwise I feel that the sorting hat's song in OotP doesn't mean much.

Part two--

I think by now it's a given that Dumbledore won't be present at the Battle of Hogwarts

hence why I have already formulated a possibile strategic plan....just look at the uber-post on this page.

Oh and i want to add on again....this who (in my opinion and in what most of us have deduced) will be leading in the battle.

--BAD GUYS--

Voldemort- Supreme Commander of the Death Eater Army...he'll mostly likely just be observing...allowing his minions to do his work for him. However, if worse comes to worse...he'll take command and probably personally storm Hogwarts

Lucius Malfoy- he will be the commander of the operation in this battle..judging what went on at the DOM...he seems to be the DE tactical commander.

Draco Malfoy- It is of most of the fandom's opinion that Malfoy has basically seized power (bribes, extortion..Anti-Potterist leader) in Slytherin House. He will orchestrate the inside job.

As for the other DEs...they'll probably be there, just which ones I dunno.

--GOOD GUYS--

Minerva McGonagal- Acting head of Hogwarts..Supreme Commander of the Hogwarts Castle area. Will defer actual command to the original DA...including the trio while she controls the adult forces.

Flitwick- I see him working very closely with Granger to find charms and counter charms for attack and defense. Will be officially incharge of Ravenclaw house forces

Snape- By now I'm sure he'll be found out for what he is...he will try to get those who aren't under Malfoy to fight for Hogwarts.

The rest of the staff will have there importance...I just dunno exactly what at this time.

Ernie Macmillian- Commander of the Hufflepuff Division

Luna Lovegood- Possible commander of the Ravenclaw Division...though for obvious reasons i have my doubts.....

Neville Longbottom- Commander of the Gryfinndor Divison. he will probably be the one assisting Harry in his offensives the most.

Hermione Granger- logistics officer for the Hogwarts Army...she will organize the entire student body into a fighting unit and dem who best can fight. She will be with Flitwick helping him with research AND she will help lead assults for Gryfinndor Division

Harry Potter- He will be in charge of the offensive line and will lead the original DA in assults. He will also most-likely to be the one to go after the enemy officers. Second in command of the Hogwarts Army. Handles the tactical details.

Ronald Weasley- "Field Marshal", essentially, of the Hogwarts Army. While Harry handles tactics, Ron will be in charge of the over all strategy.

Ginny Weasley- Leads the defensive line. Possible leader of the Hogwarts "air force" (aka the combined school teams of Quidditch.

Moody- Will probably lead (along with Kingsley and Tonks) the Auror cavalary...or the entire British Wizarding Army.

That's all for now...just look at this post and the other uber post and tell me what you think.

important how so?

hogwarts will obviously be seiged or at least attempted to be sieged by voldymort . I dont know about most people but that seems pretty obvious to me i mean what else has he got to do? he can kill people and stuff sure but the order will be there to stop him causing attrition (very wrong word but i remember something like that in a game i used to play your units lost health if u went into your enemy's land without declaring war) and losing death eaters for no good reason, so i think its likely that with both harry and DD sitting at hogwarts with a bunch of useless (so he thinks) students around them, Voldy will amass an army and try to take hogwarts (because everyone knows its quantity not quality ex. 5000 will 90% of the time win against 500 of course unless its harry potter because thats most likely going to be how the final battle will be) (in my eyes at least)

That's true, quantity does beat quality in most instances. BUT not always. First of all, I very highly doubt that Voldemort would even think about such an attack. Some of you need to think about what kind of a siege this would have to be. Hogwarts is probably filled with ancient magic and spells defending it. It IS a castle afterall... Castles are the best defensive building against such an invasion.

Also, godrics hollow, you said that quantity beats quality. Well if you think that then why do you think Voldey would invade Hogwarts. He's outnumbered majorly. A handful of death eaters, dementors, and (possibly) giants would be no match for the entire Wizarding World. You got to understand that it would take a long time to break through the castle's first line of defense. And within minutes, the ministry and order, and all sorts of other witches and wizards would be called to the defense of Hogwarts. Voldemort likes to play behind the scenes because he can't win by strength of numbers. He may attack certain places, but Hogwarts is not one of them in my opinion.

And even if somehow Voldemort and his army got through the first line of defenses, behind that gate a swarm of angry teachers, students, and also House Elves would be waiting. We all know house elves can do pretty good magic and I'm sure they would gladly stand against Voldemort, the DE, Dementors, and the Giants. They would be a valuable weapon. With all this rage with Hermione about House elves I believe they will play a major role.

So with all this in mind, why would LV even want to attack. Yes, it would be a big morale blow and it would also be a chance to get at Harry, but why would he need to go through such hard fight just to get to Harry? He can do that other ways without risking his downfall again. He won't make rash decisions this time. He's even more wise and won't do such a thing...It would be suicide for his growing army and the victory for the Wizarding World would be a big morale boost. Nope, I just don't see it happening. It would be very cool, but it doesn't seem logical for the growing plot in the books. There's just not enough substance for Voldemort to think up such a risky plan...there just is not enough rewards if somehow he gained victory, which just seems outrageous and not relevant to the thickening plot...

I think that an attack against Hogwarts also forces the students to either unite and defeat the Deatheaters or divide and let Voldemort take over. Otherwise I feel that the sorting hat's song in OotP doesn't mean much.

But the school already has united against Umbridge. The exception was the Slytherins, of course, but there are fairly obvious reasons for that.

So, the Sorting Hat's song has already provided its meaning.


Again, this is a character story. There will not be big battles like that. Those really only work under a different narrative style and for a different type of story.

Voldemort likes to play behind the scenes because he can't win by strength of numbers. He may attack certain places, but Hogwarts is not one of them in my opinion.




Yes I agree. If Voldemort was going to attack Hogwarts, he would have done so back in the first war. Hogwarts is the safe place. Its got so many spells and charms on it, no one can even apperate inside of the grounds. And Dumbledoor can defeat Voldy in the blink of an eye.

NO! Voldemort won't attack Hogwarts. He doesn't even win when he tries to attack it from the inside.

Of course he wouldn't wi...that would mean that harry lost, but he is arrogant enough to do it...Think about the first reign, not what he does NOW.

I don't think LV will try. All he needs is Harry out of the way to become powerful enough to do anything (like take over hogwarts?). Therefore his main focus is Harry. Those pesky upstarts at hogwarts can wait! :evil:

I think it's entirely possible that LV will go to Hogwarts....He hasn't tried to overtake that (as well as DD).

There is always a quote that starts (to the effect): As long as DD is here..."

I think this is where he will show off his terrible army.

Meghana

Voldemort might have plans in invading Hogwarts but will not be successful because of Dumbledore and the concern students and staffs of Hogwarts...

JKR has said that in book six the wizarding war will be at full war.
We can expect many dissapearances like the old times, and a few order members seriously wounded or even dead. The dark side will gain control, because You-Know-Who had one whole year to plan his movements, so no he will be ready to go public, whereas the biggest part of the wizarding world is still numb from the shock of truth. It will take a while for things to setlle in the Ministry, and a lot more to prepare the people.
Still, a full scale assault of Hogwarts will be at book 7. I think that Voldemort will conquer it and then, in his peak of power, having taken out Dumbledore :upset: , Harry will save the moment and lead the counter-attack, driving all Dark forces out of the school. I think that this final showdown will take place in a place where everyone will watch it. That's how I imagine the scene:

Voldemort is in the seat of Dumbledore in the Great Hall. Teachers bound and wandless, students terrified with Death Eaters (leading them father and son Malfoy)keeping watch and guarding the exits. Then Harry and co. appear and the DA spring to their feet, taking out the DE. Harry procedes to the center and challenges Voldemort.
The rest is an Epic battle (i'm no good in storytelling to describe it) where Harry gives Voldie the old one-two.

When LV attacks Hogwarts, the big thing he'll have to worry about is communications. Hogwarts must not be able to call for reinforcements, otherwise LV would lose the advantage. Since Hogwarts doesn't allow wizards to Apparate/Disapparate or muggle technology, that only leaves the Floo Network, the portraits, and methods not yet introduced to us. If the Slytherin house sides with LV, then they might be able to shutdown the Floo Network in the school, with help from DE's at the Ministry. The portraits are harder because they're in DD's office, which can only be accessed by password and could be locked to all but the headmaster at any moment. Then they're are the people of Hogsmeade, an completely magical community. If they caught wind of an attack on the school, the locals could form a militia to help the school.

LV has to control the communications, but I can't see how he can control it all and attack the school at the same time. Maybe, LV will just raise an army powerful enough to face any opponent, whether it be just the school, Hogsmeade, the Ministry, the Order, or all of the above.

Excellent post phane00

That is definately an important thing to consider. Ghosts, portatist and Hogsmeade would be the key to this. i have no trust in the floo network. if a half-wit like Umbridge can override it, Voldy would be able to easily do it also...

I don't think the Weasleys are that high on Voldy's hit list... besides how foolhardy would that be, attack a house with 4 members of the Order, 2 DA members who already have experience fighting death eaters... and lets not even begin to talk about what Fred & George could do in defense of their house.... Needless to say there are better and safer targets out there then the burrow.

I don't think Voldemort is particularly scared of a family of mainly juvenille wizards. I am sure he would see them as pretty easy pickings. A couple of DA members who are adolescent schoolkids that practiced basic spells for a couple of hours a week. Fred and George who are highschool dropouts and never even completed their NEWTS, Mr Weasley- who he has already attacked and almost killed and MRs Weasley who gets so distressed under pressure she can't even banish a boggart. HE's already invaded the Ministry of Magic. The Burrow is peanuts compared to that.

Perhaps the communications can be stopped by the dementors. One of their effects is that when they are around the whole area gets really quiet and really dark. So, if they were to invade Hogwarts maybe the floo network would be disabled by their powers. Maybe the portraits as well.
With the Patronus Charm being advanced magic and the dementors running all over Hogsmeade and Hogwarts, they could be used to jam communications while immobilizing those in their way.

the Dementors are going to be an intresting factor. they are the most mobile of the dark forces. they coould be used as an "airforce" of the Dark lord. As for jamming communications...I sort of doubt they could stop portraits. ghosts, i'm not so sure, since it's basically just a soul. they could be devoured, perhaps they can't. Who knows. The dementors could prove dangerous to 1st and 2nd years however. 5th year and up will probably be safe as they would have been trained by harry and co. I believe the dark lord will disable the floo network. With out it, instant transport within the castle would cease, as well as communications.

Chapter 39

Ron and Hermonie are with Harry in the Graveyard trying to get back to Hogwarts..however, Voldermort swings around and grabs at Hermonie. As she loses her balance, Voldermort catches her wrist and holds it tight. With his terrible laugh, he laughs at Harry. "Your friend is now mine, Harry, unless you give up, she's mine to kill. At this point, you lose, Potter." "Throw your wand down, death comes easy now, Potter," he almost spits in his pleasure. Ron crawls up behind some marble tombstones and sees Harry a few stones away, watching Hermonie and Voldermort. Ron, terrified, pulls out his wand, hand trimbling, points it out from his chest, and then rises up enough to point it straight at Voldermort. His voice rings out "expelliarmum!" but Voldermort's faster, and a green light flies furiously past Harry and straight at Ron, it blasts through the marble, and a ring is heard throughout the cemetary. Hermonie cries, "Ron!" Voldermort throwing Hermonie on the ground, grinds his teeth in revulsion, "Trotifficusprotalus" and she's more stone than the marble. Ron get's up and runs to the next marble, and dives. Harry does the same. Each getting closer and running in circles around Voldermort. Voldermort fires from every source he hears a noise. Blasting tombstone to pieces. Ron throws charms, Harry throws charms. Thinking to himself, where is Dumbledore, where is everyone? Fight, his head is throbbing. Ron, duck, his mind screams as a red light bleeps through the air! If this is fighting a war, we're all alone. Raising up again, he throws another disarming charm, but Voldermort again throws his and this time it came like a whip of silver, and it changed on a tombstone as it rang in the air. The moon was completely full, and Remus was somewhere on the run. Wormtail had lost his life too, thought Harry, he finally came through, but lost, and now it's our turn. Ron, too late, ducked, and got the full force...NO, RON! Ron falls slowly backward, his face closed, slack. Voldermort raged at Harry, "There, your friends are dead, Potter, bow to death NOW Potter. Bow to DEATH, YOUR DEATH POTTER." His vile nostrils open wide, his eyes tragically satisfied, proud, underfeated. Harry, burning with rage, finally pulls out his most presious thoughts and purges his mind, and out comes the cruciable curse the killing curse with one of the redist lights that almost turned white at the end, and hit Voldermort fully on his heart. He starres at Harry, like he doesn't see him. His eyes, shocked. Harry starres...and again, he fires a curse, with the meaning unmistakeable, with all the vemenence and hate he ever had in him. All the love for Ron and Hermonie, Sirius, and Lupin, for Dumbledore and the whole Weasley family behind him, he cursed Voldermort to hell and beyond. And then, he felt it, within himself, a flame, his scar a vilness up and blast from his head. His scar opened up and a smell that he learned when in the bowels of the Ministry of Mystery...and kills Voldermort...but it also kills a part of Harry. His body, folds up, and his knees fall to the ground. His body falls on top of his parents grave, and his arm lays against the stone as he feels himself drifting far away to a still black nothingness.

Hermonie wakes up like from a bad dream, her head aches horribly. "There you are dear" koons a soft female voice. "She'll be fine now, Dr's Grangers, you can leave for a few minutes. Professor Dumbledore is waiting for you," said Prof. McGonagal. "We'll be right back, " whisper's her mother's voice. "Let me know if she wakes up." "Certainly." Hermonie again sinks into a dreamless sleep. The light is hitting her eyes the next time she awakens, and she see's that she is in the infermery, Dumbledore is sitting with her. His arm is in a sling, part of his hand is missing, a result of Voldermort and him getting into a duel. Hermonie starts to cry. "Now, now, Miss Granger. You are a hero, your parents are here and they are very proud of you." Her parents she could see beaming at her at the foot of her bed, arm in arm, and Krum on her left side. "Ron...Harry...?" she crooked. Sadly, Dumbledore looked down, tears splashed down...

Um... no offense, profmcgonagal, but I think you're in the wrong thread, probably the wrong forum. That had nothing to do with the possibility of LV invading Hogwarts. You should probably move it to the fan fic forum.

Voldemort would never expose himself that way , he will probably send a group that is in his side , plus Dumbledore would be in the castle , a very good reason for Voldemort not go .

in 2. book Dumbledore wasn't in Hogwarts, so if he goes anywhere Voldemort could easily sneak in Hogwarts.

voldemort doesn't have to invade personally, he could and has before stayed in the distance. But I think he might have to move in during the final wave/if the assult falters