Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion #8

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Emma
February 8th, 2005, 5:54 pm
Important: Important: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion #7 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=41341)

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INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!


Continue here please.

Puchula
February 8th, 2005, 6:09 pm
yeah besides it being Godric or someone new, i would think it would be dumbledore! we still have yet to learn all about him! why on earth would he have the london underground on his knee?-and he said it was a useful scar! maybe the secret to GG is there?
I agree with the people that say that Dumbeldore being the HBP or GG's heir (or both) would just be too much. He's already a very powerful wizard, he runs the school, people want him as Minister of Magic, he's in the Wizengamot, he head of the Order. It would be too much.

And the underground scar, I don't know. I always so it as a funny comment regarding how complex the London underground is and nothing else. But it could hold some kind of secret... Not sure.

shouldn't harry be allowed to start using magic out side hog warts this year? maybe that is the pleasanter reason he gets to leave earlier?
I think that only when he turns 17, and that's at the begining of book 7

MaruderSirius
February 8th, 2005, 6:25 pm
I :agree: that DD could not be the HBP because if he was then there should have been something like a family heirloom or something. wouldn't he? :huh:

luvygrifindor
February 8th, 2005, 6:33 pm
I agree with the people that say that Dumbeldore being the HBP or GG's heir (or both) would just be too much. He's already a very powerful wizard, he runs the school, people want him as Minister of Magic, he's in the Wizengamot, he head of the Order. It would be too much.

And the underground scar, I don't know. I always so it as a funny comment regarding how complex the London underground is and nothing else. But it could hold some kind of secret... Not sure.


I think that only when he turns 17, and that's at the begining of book 7

yeah -that is waht i was thinking so he has to wait a whole nother year! but ron and hermione are coming of age and they will be using magic outside hogwarts and learning to apparate. i love dumbledore for all the odd things he says and does -he such a genious,he is always funny too, -but i think due to his circumstances -harry should be given special permission to use it now because of the threat of voldemort and his death eaters. this is one of the reasons i think he will have his shortest stay at the dursleys yet. and all of this is going to tie in with the hbp some how too! i bet dumbledore goes ahead and accepts the minister of magic position! any thing to get rid of fudge at this point! i dont know how they could have hired such a big headed blubber nut in the first place!

Puchula
February 8th, 2005, 6:37 pm
I :agree: that DD could not be the HBP because if he was then there should have been something like a family heirloom or something. wouldn't he? :huh:
Yes there should, but that could always happen... We don't know much about DD's family...

i bet dumbledore goes ahead and accepts the minister of magic position!
That'd be really cool. But I don't think he will, he didn't take it before and he's pretty much in the same position as he used to be back then so... Maybe he'll help find a replacement for Fudge.

harry should be given special permission to use it now because of the threat of voldemort and his death eaters.
Not sure... He should, but if the new Minister is one of the people that thinks Harry is a spoiled child then I don't think he'll allow it...

luvygrifindor
February 8th, 2005, 7:02 pm
Yes there should, but that could always happen... We don't know much about DD's family...


That'd be really cool. But I don't think he will, he didn't take it before and he's pretty much in the same position as he used to be back then so... Maybe he'll help find a replacement for Fudge.


Not sure... He should, but if the new Minister is one of the people that thinks Harry is a spoiled child then I don't think he'll allow it...

i think the days of painting harry in a bad light are over -im confident of that -especially now that every one knows the truth about it all now! with dumbledore being right i think everyone will give him an even higher level of respect now too. i can agree he may still not want the job but he has so much influence that the next guy will most likely be someone DD chooses

Puchula
February 8th, 2005, 9:01 pm
i think the days of painting harry in a bad light are over -im confident of that -especially now that every one knows the truth about it all now!
I hope you're right because Harry playing the martir is getting on my nerves! :grumble: But I think we're going off topic :blush:

Here's (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=34240&page=1&pp=30) a thread o the Minister of Magic topic if you're interested...

luvygrifindor
February 8th, 2005, 9:06 pm
I hope you're right because Harry playing the martir is getting on my nerves! :grumble: But I think we're going off topic :blush:

Here's (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=34240&page=1&pp=30) a thread o the Minister of Magic topic if you're interested...
thankyou! :p

Puchula
February 8th, 2005, 9:10 pm
thankyou! :p
any time! :D

teo
February 8th, 2005, 11:26 pm
Regarding Dumbledore...I don't think the London Underground scar is anything more than a joke put in by JKR. I don't see any signficance to it, although I'd love to have one! Perhaps I'll have to settle for a tattoo map.

I don't see Dumbledore as HBP, mostly for the reasons others have stated. He's already arguably one of the four or five most important characters in the book, and there's no real need to give him any extra significance. Also (and I'm not completely sure on this), Lucius and co. are always criticizing Dumbledore for being a "half-blood lover", or something like that, but as far as I can remember they've never actually called him a half-blood. This suggests to me that Dumbledore is probably pure-blood.

star28
February 8th, 2005, 11:28 pm
I think that the HBP will either be a historical character or just a nickname. There's no reference to any wizarding royalty in the books, and it would seem a little late to just throw that in right now.

teo
February 8th, 2005, 11:34 pm
I think that the HBP will either be a historical character or just a nickname. There's no reference to any wizarding royalty in the books, and it would seem a little late to just throw that in right now.

I agree...if "Prince" literally means a member of a royal family, I think it will either be a historical figure like Godric Gryffindor, or a descendant of a historical royal family of some sort. If there were a British wizarding royal family in the "present day", I think we'd have heard about them by now.

McKinnon02
February 8th, 2005, 11:54 pm
I have decided to repost this, in the hopes that the character I am about to bring up will make it onto the list this time. :)

It may be that the HBP is the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecies.

I can hear your reactions now: "Who the heck is the keeper of the Hall of Prophecies?"

Take a look at this statement made by Dumbledore at the end of book 5.

"The official record was relabeled after Voldemort's attack on you as a child," said Dumbledore. "It seemed plain to the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy that Voldemort could only have tried to kill you because he knew you to be the one to whom Sibyll was referring."

This is good for Rowling in several ways:

1. It could possibly introduce a new character, mentioned only once in a huge explanation, casually brushed off by the legions of HP readers. Seems very like her. To counter my own argument: This person was missing from the DOM during the DE attack. They may have been killed, or could have been dead for several years now, or might have retired... any number of options suggest that the current Keeper of the Hall may not be the relabeler. It might also be an unintentional (or intentional) red herring- think Mark Evans.

2. We know virtually nothing about the position. Whoever it is currently may have a general idea of what all the prophecies had contained, including Trelawney's first prophecy. Which could have serious plot benefits. Or they could have full knowledge- which has even better prospects. (Don't forget, JKR rubbed her hands together in fiendish glee while writing book 6).

3. It gives the ministry an even bigger look of stupidity and ignorance. They had someone in the ministry who knew that the prophecy was still in effect, which meant Voldemort was NOT gone for good. Their actions, in light of this knowledge, become far worse- and give Fudge even more of a reason to get booted from office. Especially if it was communicated to him.

Jessica
February 9th, 2005, 12:24 am
I'm not sure why everyone is posting links to unrelated trheads in here, but could we please stop?

Does anyone object to McKinnons idea about the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy. I mean - it's not much to go on, but then again neither is Basil. :)

BrookMctirre
February 9th, 2005, 12:37 am
I don't think that the Keeper of the Hall of Phrophies will be the HBP. JKR doesn't really doit that often. During a book you could always really tell who the person is . For your information all of the DADA teachers were mentioned before they showed up and was intorduced as DADA teacher.
Quillel- Leaky Caudroln
Lockheart- Floruish and Blotts
Lupin- on the train
Moody- By Mr. Weasley
Umbridge- in the courtroom
?-?

So what could this mean, personally I doubt that she would introduce a new character but hay thats just my thoughts. So I don't think the DADA teacher will be HBP. Plus the DADA teachers have alot to deal with so she wouldn't give that much spotlight to them. I also think that she wouldn't want to draw too much from the trio. O Maybe it could be Ron. I think Percy is a good choice too!

Who is Basil? I couldn't figure that out.

Jessica
February 9th, 2005, 12:39 am
Well Percy and Ron are both known to be pure bred.

Basil was mentioned a couple of times at *** QWC in GoF. Persoannly I think he's a long shot, but so be it :)

Mugwump84
February 9th, 2005, 1:03 am
I think that Basil is one of the ministry personel Mr. Weasley mentions to Harry before the quidditch world cup in the GoF. :huh:

McKinnon02
February 9th, 2005, 1:28 am
The Keeper has obviously had quite an impact on Harry, even if he may have had no direct contact with him. He had to make the decision to label Trelawney's first Prophecy with Harry's name, which indicates that he/she is close to Dumbledore or had to at least follow up on the results of the prophecy. I believe that as the HBP, the keeper is quite possibly a very valuable source of information- one that could possibly advance the overall plots of the books.

ComicBookWorm
February 9th, 2005, 2:51 am
Personally I don't think Basil or the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy have any chance of being the HBP. But here is my reason I don't think the statement that the Keeper relabled prophecy means he knew something special. He relabled the prophecy because Voldemort attacked Harry and literally marked him, meaning it indicated which boy Voldemort thought was the danger--with the marking as backup of that fact since it tied into the prophecy. He probably has to make these judgments all the time, trying to assign who prophecies indicate. It's his job to figure it out so he probably has skill and experience in how to determine this.

So if others want to add him to the list, please use this a con against him.

McKinnon02
February 9th, 2005, 4:32 am
Personally I don't think Basil or the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy have any chance of being the HBP. But here is my reason I don't think the statement that the Keeper relabled prophecy means he knew something special. He relabled the prophecy because Voldemort attacked Harry and literally marked him, meaning it indicated which boy Voldemort thought was the danger--with the marking as backup of that fact since it tied into the prophecy. He probably has to make these judgments all the time, trying to assign who prophecies indicate. It's his job to figure it out so he probably has skill and experience in how to determine this.

So if others want to add him to the list, please use this a con against him.

I think this statement kind of depends on how soon the Keeper knew that Voldemort had marked Harry. Did he know just after it happened, before Hagrid found Harry in the rubble of his parents' house? Or did he find out during the eventual course of events that night? If he knew right after it happened- and he may have, perhaps the prophecies grow brighter when part or all of them come to pass- he may have had more knowledge than anyone else about the events that happened that night.

BrookMctirre
February 9th, 2005, 1:28 pm
Thanks for telling me who Basil is, I think it's a long shot as well. The Keeper of the Hall of Phrophies(KHP for short) probably is a well informed person. But, since magic is highly advanced, I wouldn't be suprised if there was an instrument that said when phrosphies were made, fulfilled, ect. The other thing is we are told that only the people who the phrosphie relate to can touch it. I believe there is one exception to this rule. The KHP would have to be able to touch it, and lable it.

McKinnon02
February 9th, 2005, 4:21 pm
The labels to the prophecies are on the shelves just below the prophecies. Touching them is not required.

SusanBones
February 9th, 2005, 8:12 pm
The phrase half-blood prince is very odd because someone who is a prince, either real or fictional, is usual someone of the very purest bloodlines with a great deal of prestige. A half-blood to many wizards is socially lower than a pure-blood. So here in lies the conflict. Is he a commoner with an honorary title, like the prince of thieves? Or is he someone of historic or current significance? Either way, I think that he is going to be a brand new character.

ikuko
February 9th, 2005, 8:19 pm
The phrase half-blood prince is very odd because someone who is a prince, either real or fictional, is usual someone of the very purest bloodlines with a great deal of prestige. A half-blood to many wizards is socially lower than a pure-blood. So here in lies the conflict. Is he a commoner with an honorary title, like the prince of thieves? Or is he someone of historic or current significance? Either way, I think that he is going to be a brand new character.
No, it is not so. A child of a royal wizard married to a muggle will be a prince. But it does not imply that pure-blood fanatics would accept him as a future ruler and perhaps attempt to eliminate such possibility. See the arguments for Trevor on the list :D

ComicBookWorm
February 9th, 2005, 10:02 pm
No, it is not so. A child of a royal wizard married to a muggle will be a prince. But it does not imply that pure-blood fanatics would accept him as a future ruler and perhaps attempt to eliminate such possibility.
Yeah, I don't think royalty will impress pure-bloods if the person is a half-blood. They are too bigoted.

tarachristwen
February 10th, 2005, 3:26 pm
ron or neville are definitely not the half blood prince cos they are from pure blood families..

McKinnon02
February 10th, 2005, 5:33 pm
ron or neville are definitely not the half blood prince cos they are from pure blood families..

This kind of made me wonder. Does "half-blood" necessarily pertain to the mix of different kinds of blood in someone's veins (meaning muggle and magic), or could it mean something entirely different? Could "half-blood" refer to the lineage, as in the parent of one pure blood line, and the parent of another pure blood line, therefore giving them half the blood of family x and half the blood of family y? In this way, pure-bloods could be incorporated into the list.

dobydoo
February 10th, 2005, 6:41 pm
I'm leaning towards Seamus. Remember in the first book, Harry mentions how long the sorting hat was on Seamus. This is the only mention of it being on someone for a long time.

WakeUpLetGo
February 10th, 2005, 6:53 pm
Not to sure if this has been talked about or not. I believe that awhile back JK mentioned somewhere that the half blood prince was mentioned in COS. I think chapter 2. I could be wrong about this but, in that chapter when harry is asking dobby about who could be trying to hurt him. He ask if voldermort has a brother. ("Slowly, Dobby shook his head. "Not -not He- Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, sir =' But Dobby's eyes were wide and he seemed to be trying to give Harry a hint. Harry, however, was completely lost. "He hasn't got a brother, has he?" Dobby shook his head, his eyes wider than ever.) Does voldermort have a brother. Has JK ever mentioned a brother. I can't remember. It's very much possible that The HBP could be a brother of Voldermort. Possilby even against his brother. I could be wrong. Tell me what you think.

McKinnon02
February 10th, 2005, 7:01 pm
JKR has said that Voldemort has no siblings. No brothers or sisters. He killed his only family.

luvygrifindor
February 10th, 2005, 7:33 pm
Not to sure if this has been talked about or not. I believe that awhile back JK mentioned somewhere that the half blood prince was mentioned in COS. I think chapter 2. I could be wrong about this but, in that chapter when harry is asking dobby about who could be trying to hurt him. He ask if voldermort has a brother. ("Slowly, Dobby shook his head. "Not -not He- Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, sir =' But Dobby's eyes were wide and he seemed to be trying to give Harry a hint. Harry, however, was completely lost. "He hasn't got a brother, has he?" Dobby shook his head, his eyes wider than ever.) Does voldermort have a brother. Has JK ever mentioned a brother. I can't remember. It's very much possible that The HBP could be a brother of Voldermort. Possilby even against his brother. I could be wrong. Tell me what you think.
no lv has no family but my uncle has this theory that for some reason voldemort will kill lucius and then malfoy will pull a snape and switch sides-malfoy did start out trying to be friends with harry and he is jealous of the trio and its not too late for him to reform! but if dobbys eyes widened that it was not lv or a brother -of course not a brother-then one of his death eaters -lucius perhaps?

Jessica
February 10th, 2005, 8:23 pm
I added Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy under New Character since we don't know this person's name and have not been introduced to them yet :)


PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!

Puchula
February 11th, 2005, 2:44 pm
Not to sure if this has been talked about or not. I believe that awhile back JK mentioned somewhere that the half blood prince was mentioned in COS. I think chapter 2. I could be wrong about this but, in that chapter when harry is asking dobby about who could be trying to hurt him. He ask if voldermort has a brother. ("Slowly, Dobby shook his head. "Not -not He- Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, sir =' But Dobby's eyes were wide and he seemed to be trying to give Harry a hint. Harry, however, was completely lost. "He hasn't got a brother, has he?" Dobby shook his head, his eyes wider than ever.) Does voldermort have a brother. Has JK ever mentioned a brother. I can't remember. It's very much possible that The HBP could be a brother of Voldermort. Possilby even against his brother. I could be wrong. Tell me what you think.
I believe his eyes widened because he wanted Harry to understand it wasn't He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named but Tom Riddle who in his school years could be named without trouble.

fairylight
February 11th, 2005, 8:58 pm
I've read the list so I hope this doesn't conflict with anything that has been said.

Now this is extremely far-fetched and I'm not even sure it applies in all the senses or that I beleive it, but I don't think it could hut to throw it out there, feel free to give me the reasons why this could NOT work.

In another thread we were discussing the MRS. in Mrs. Figg, meaning she probably has or had a husband.
What if her husband was a king of some sort, and the two had a child. (Male.) It would be a prince then.
The only drawback is I'm not sure Mrs. Figg being a squib would contribute towards a half-blood child on her part. But then again, her husband could be a muggle, and her squib status could count as magical blood.
We're given the excerpt about the cat like person from HBP, and we all know how much Mrs. Figg loves cat, if there is anyway the two are related.

Well there it is, not something I'm putting all my faith in or anything, but it seems like any theories are good, and I apologize if this has already been put out there :)

devonforever
February 12th, 2005, 11:34 pm
Jessica - that is an awful amount of work there. I am very impressed.

No. I have no idea who/what "it" is. Still, it will all come out in the wash.

Jessica
February 13th, 2005, 12:52 am
Jessica - that is an awful amount of work there. I am very impressed.

No. I have no idea who/what "it" is. Still, it will all come out in the wash.

it's a collective effort. I just update it every few pages when something new is decided on by the group as a whole (or as close to it as we come)

SnapesNaughty
February 13th, 2005, 3:18 am
how about Grawp being the half blood prince

Jessica
February 13th, 2005, 3:45 am
If you look at the list you'll see that we've eliminted him because he is pure giant and therefore not a half-blood. :)

luvygrifindor
February 13th, 2005, 4:17 am
how about Grawp being the half blood prince

i dont think grawp is a half blood! :blush: well, i think it could have been godric gryffindor himself - iam stuck onthe idea that he will be important to the story! or one of those characters introduced to harry in the cos? dumbledore could be it but i agree withthose that he already has a lot under his belt -besides why would he wait so long to reveal this? it will probably a new person. but i could really see a lot of things being revealed about GG and that he may have been persecuted(riddiculed notbuned at the stake or anything) in his day for his being magic and then coined the HBP by wizards? of course we will not know until july 16 th! :p

i think it would be good to put in that kid that harry notices looking rather scared at the sorting in ootp-i think it was m-why would harry care? it seems to be one of those subtle things that jk puts in. oraybe it was in gof?-or else one of the other students that is if it isn't someone entirley new! it wouldbe pretty cool for the kids to have a prince for a DADA. but i dont know how a princewould need ajob i still love the idea of Godric Gryffindor! even if hes not the prince i still want harry to be his heir but if he was the prince and harry was his heir i dont think that would really make harry the prince would it? also GG is only believed to have been a pure blood! it could have made no difference to SS back when they were friends! even malfoy had extended his hand to harry. it would make since for it to cause such an argument if in someway GG was a half blood. i think what matters to be in slytherin is a thinking that blood purity matters even if you are not pure blood. that i believe would goright along with them having their kind of argument. did jk ever debunk that it could be a bad person? and not on harry's side?

teo
February 13th, 2005, 4:59 am
i dont think grawp is a half blood! :blush: well, i think it could have been godric gryffindor himself - iam stuck onthe idea that he will be important to the story! or one of those characters introduced to harry in the cos? dumbledore could be it but i agree withthose that he already has a lot under his belt -besides why would he wait so long to reveal this? it will probably a new person. but i could really see a lot of things being revealed about GG and that he may have been persecuted(riddiculed notbuned at the stake or anything) in his day for his being magic and then coined the HBP by wizards? of course we will not know until july 16 th! :p

Well...as far as I'm concerned, a major point in favor of Godric is JKR's quote about a discovery makes in CoS turning out to be important in HBP (I am paraphrasing obviously, but I think this is in essence correct). One of the big discoveries in CoS is regarding Harry's uncertainty about his house placement, which is resolved when he pulls Godric's sword out of the Sorting Hat, something that according to Dumbledore only a "true Gryffindor" can do. If you think about it, "true Gryffindor" can have a double meaning, the second (not obvious) meaning being that Harry and Godric are related. That's for another thread though. Anyway, a lot of things seem to point to Godric making an appearance in some shape or form!

i think it would be good to put in that kid that harry notices looking rather scared at the sorting in ootp-i think it was m-why would harry care? it seems to be one of those subtle things that jk puts in. oraybe it was in gof?

This character's name is Euan Abercrombie. It does seem like a potential "mention character in passing, then make him important in a later book" type thing, though if the HBP is a student I'd bet it's one closer in age to Harry.

ComicBookWorm
February 13th, 2005, 6:03 am
I've thought about something I'm going to add to my case for Gryffindor. JKR likes to hide information in plain sight. It's her primary method of misdirection. I think that saying that Harry is a "true Gryffindor is one of those instances. We are led to believe it is Harry's worry about being put in Slytherin, when it also means that he is descended from Gryffindor. She repeatedly surprises us with information that we could have had if we had only looked more closely. This could be one of those times. I think that the story of the HBP, if it is Gryffindor, is something that we will need in order to for Harry to discover he is the heir, which will then aid him somehow in his struggle with Voldemort.

Elder Granger
February 13th, 2005, 11:02 am
That's a really good point CBW... It is true Jo style! I know your argument, among others, addresses this adequately, but Harry being the heir of Gryffindor AND Godric being the HBP somehow doesn't sit well with me. I have since gotten more used to the idea, but, like I said, something just doesn't quite sit right... But... I think I've said enough nothing for one post, I'm stopping now!

ComicBookWorm
February 13th, 2005, 11:33 am
That's a really good point CBW... It is true Jo style! I know your argument, among others, addresses this adequately, but Harry being the heir of Gryffindor AND Godric being the HBP somehow doesn't sit well with me. I have since gotten more used to the idea, but, like I said, something just doesn't quite sit right... But... I think I've said enough nothing for one post, I'm stopping now!
Hey where's your avatar? Congratulations.

Corbin Dallas
February 13th, 2005, 11:46 am
That's a really good point CBW... It is true Jo style! I know your argument, among others, addresses this adequately, but Harry being the heir of Gryffindor AND Godric being the HBP somehow doesn't sit well with me. I have since gotten more used to the idea, but, like I said, something just doesn't quite sit right... But... I think I've said enough nothing for one post, I'm stopping now!
I agree EG, oh and congrats, I'm so jealous :p , if Godric is the HBP then that makes Harry of royal lineage, think Aragorn from LOTR, and I don't think Jo is going that route with Harry. I do think he is related to Godric but I don't think Godric is the HBP either. Now knowing that Flamel was an actual person and having himalive after 600 years, I'd say Jo has no problem with adapting historical figures to her mythos, so I'm thinking why not just make Flamel the HBP too? Ahhh well, only 5 months to go and to think only two months ago it seemed like 7 months to go ;)
Cheers
:tu: :cool: :tu:

Briar Filth
February 13th, 2005, 12:53 pm
JKR has said that Voldemort has no siblings. No brothers or sisters. He killed his only family.

Ah, this is what I've been looking for, only problem is, it completely scatters one of my theories. Oh well.

Didn't JKR say that the HBP made a very brief appearance in CoS?

ComicBookWorm
February 13th, 2005, 1:15 pm
I agree EG, oh and congrats, I'm so jealous :p , if Godric is the HBP then that makes Harry of royal lineage, think Aragorn from LOTR, and I don't think Jo is going that route with Harry. I do think he is related to Godric but I don't think Godric is the HBP either. Now knowing that Flamel was an actual person and having himalive after 600 years, I'd say Jo has no problem with adapting historical figures to her mythos, so I'm thinking why not just make Flamel the HBP too? Ahhh well, only 5 months to go and to think only two months ago it seemed like 7 months to go ;)
Cheers
:tu: :cool: :tu:
Well since Gryffindor lived 1000 years ago, any lines of royal inheritance would be lost, so Harry could be descended from Gryffindor and not be royalty. It's entirely possible that Gryffindor was disinherited because he was magical.

BrookMctirre
February 13th, 2005, 2:11 pm
Didn't JKR say that the HBP made a very brief appearance in CoS?
No, I don't believe so but I think GG has a good chance.

ComicBookWorm
February 13th, 2005, 2:26 pm
Here are relevant quotes:
[snip] as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets.In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

Briar Filth
February 13th, 2005, 4:26 pm
Thanks for the quotes ComicBookWorm

kenneth90
February 14th, 2005, 3:56 am
I think the Half-Blood Prince is Hagrid. He is half-blood, doesn't he?

atherella
February 14th, 2005, 4:12 am
I think the Half-Blood Prince is Hagrid. He is half-blood, doesn't he?

He's actually a half breed I believe. Half giant and half wizard.

And, there is an unofficial rumor stemming from the EBF that Jo told a few people that Hagris was not the HBP. There is no way to confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt. I believe on Jessica's list that she posts with the candidates that she has a link to the news stories about it though. :)

arzt_haus
February 14th, 2005, 5:28 pm
ok, dont just read my first statement and be like "OMGZ!! WE ALREDYS SED HES NOT LIEK DA HALF BLOOD PRINCE!!!!!^#8(% and stuff. i think its tom riddle. on jk rowling's site, she never necessarily says its not tom riddle. she just says, "well, since Tom Riddle and voldemort are the same person and voldemort is NOT the half blood prince.....do i really need to answer this question?"

second, in the chamber of secrets, at the end, when harry is talking to dobby, harry says to him, "i thought this had nothing to do with voldemort?" and dobby says, "it was a clue, sir. the dark lord, before he changed his name, could be freely named." so maybe jk rowling is playing the same trick as dobby, (since she created him) and wants us to think its not voldemort but really riddle.

Briar Filth
February 14th, 2005, 7:50 pm
second, in the chamber of secrets, at the end, when harry is talking to dobby, harry says to him, "i thought this had nothing to do with voldemort?" and dobby says, "it was a clue, sir. the dark lord, before he changed his name, could be freely named." so maybe jk rowling is playing the same trick as dobby, (since she created him) and wants us to think its not voldemort but really riddle.

Oh that's a good one, never thought about that. Has she said anything about TOM Riddle not being the HBP?


• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE


Oh ok. Maybe not. poo :(

McKinnon02
February 14th, 2005, 8:56 pm
ok, dont just read my first statement and be like "OMGZ!! WE ALREDYS SED HES NOT LIEK DA HALF BLOOD PRINCE!!!!!^#8(% and stuff. i think its tom riddle. on jk rowling's site, she never necessarily says its not tom riddle. she just says, "well, since Tom Riddle and voldemort are the same person and voldemort is NOT the half blood prince.....do i really need to answer this question?"

second, in the chamber of secrets, at the end, when harry is talking to dobby, harry says to him, "i thought this had nothing to do with voldemort?" and dobby says, "it was a clue, sir. the dark lord, before he changed his name, could be freely named." so maybe jk rowling is playing the same trick as dobby, (since she created him) and wants us to think its not voldemort but really riddle.

If she says that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are the same person and then says that Voldemort is NOT the HBP, it stands to reason that Riddle is Voldemort, and that Voldemort isn't the HBP. Meaning it isn't Riddle either. She did answer the question, the part you highlighted just means she didn't feel a need to repeat herself.

This kind of made me wonder. Does "half-blood" necessarily pertain to the mix of different kinds of blood in someone's veins (meaning muggle and magic), or could it mean something entirely different? Could "half-blood" refer to the lineage, as in the parent of one pure blood line, and the parent of another pure blood line, therefore giving them half the blood of family x and half the blood of family y? In this way, pure-bloods could be incorporated into the list.

I'm a little disappointed nobody decided to play around with this idea. It not only opens up pure-bloods as possibilities, but muggle-borns as well. It also lends credibility to several of the theories on the list.

ComicBookWorm
February 14th, 2005, 9:33 pm
I'm a little disappointed nobody decided to play around with this idea. It not only opens up pure-bloods as possibilities, but muggle-borns as well. It also lends credibility to several of the theories on the list.She defined half-blood on her website and it didn't include purebloods. Based on how she defined it and how it is used in the books, it doesn't include purebloods mixing there own pureblood with other purebloods. Half-bloods are wizard/muggle mixes. A pureblood/pureblood is a pureblood.

Although you do deserve a few brownie points for ingenuity. :D

NeuroComp
February 15th, 2005, 12:01 am
I was just curious about Neville....in CoS it is mentioned that his family was afraid he was muggle....doesn't that mean that his family isn't very pureblooded-or ancient blooed.

JonMon
February 15th, 2005, 12:14 am
I remember a while ago JKR saying that Lupin had a major role in book 7 so perhaps this puts him in line to be the half blood prince. Also we don't know about Lupin's background however he is a werewolf so could be considered half human but what about half blood?? Lupin has more of a role i think but what it is yet i don't know.

Elder Granger
February 15th, 2005, 12:34 am
Lupin is a half-blood, and it has nothing to do with his lycanthropy. He is a wizrd of mixed muggle and wizrding parentage with a disease. Lupin is a decent candidate for the HBP (check out The List, there are some pretty interesting arguments on it, for Lupin in particular). I hadn't heard anything about Lupin having a big role in Book 7, and even so, I am unsure how that would make him a more viable candidate for this major role in Book 6.

McKinnon02
February 15th, 2005, 1:15 am
She defined half-blood on her website and it didn't include purebloods. Based on how she defined it and how it is used in the books, it doesn't include purebloods mixing there own pureblood with other purebloods. Half-bloods are wizard/muggle mixes. A pureblood/pureblood is a pureblood.

Although you do deserve a few brownie points for ingenuity. :D

True. But is there just one definition, or did JKR simply give us the more obvious definition? If the prince comes from a mix of one pureblood family that wasn't royalty, and another family that was, it kind of justifies the reason he's called "half-blood prince" without having to give him a mix of muggle/magic blood. It just doesn't seem like Rowling to focus on the whole issue of blood bias for a book title- every other title dealt with objects/events that didn't have any sort of biased description, or a person or organization without any kind of biased description attached to it (save Order of the Phoenix). I guess this title is just kind of throwing me off because its unlike the other titles that came before it.

_Padfoot459_
February 15th, 2005, 1:53 am
I think when she says half blood prince, she's not saying that the "prince" is a half-blood. My reasoning here is that in each book its Harry Potter and the _______ of _______ (Harry Potter and the Chamber OF secrets, prisoner OF azkaban, goblet OF fire, order OF the phoenix) and the only one that hasn't been so far aside from HBP is Sorcerer's stone, which could easily be reversed to Harry Potter and the stone OF the sorcerer (the sorcerer being Nicholas Flamel). So i think that would make HBP able to be made into Harry Potter and the prince OF the half-bloods. And I think this "prince" (not nessecarily actually a prince) is dumbledore. Everyone in book 2 was saying how he favors muggleborns and half bloods (Draco Malfoy and slytherins saying this in a nasty way) and JK Rowling says on her site that something Harry finds out in CoS foreshadows something he finds out in book 6 so i believe that the thing he finds out in book 2, dumbledore loving halfbloods and muggleborns, foreshadows his finding out that Dumbledore is actually the "prince" of the half-bloods.

*Oops! Sorry about the thing above (Prince OF the half bloods). I missed the thing it said in the beginning. Sry!

feltonfan
February 15th, 2005, 1:58 am
hmmm, i think it's the new DADA teacher. i mean, it's kind of fishy that he was the one that we were told about (via cut out paragraph of HBP) Besides, jk associates him with a lion. Lions = Gryffindor. And vise versa... interesting. Jk obiously thinks he's important, besides the fact that he's the new teacher. :p

tarachristwen
February 15th, 2005, 3:24 am
what happens if pureblood families marry into half blood families?are they still pure bloods?

luvygrifindor
February 15th, 2005, 3:36 am
I think when she says half blood prince, she's not saying that the "prince" is a half-blood. My reasoning here is that in each book its Harry Potter and the _______ of _______ (Harry Potter and the Chamber OF secrets, prisoner OF azkaban, goblet OF fire, order OF the phoenix) and the only one that hasn't been so far aside from HBP is Sorcerer's stone, which could easily be reversed to Harry Potter and the stone OF the sorcerer (the sorcerer being Nicholas Flamel). So i think that would make HBP able to be made into Harry Potter and the prince OF the half-bloods. And I think this "prince" (not nessecarily actually a prince) is dumbledore. Everyone in book 2 was saying how he favors muggleborns and half bloods (Draco Malfoy and slytherins saying this in a nasty way) and JK Rowling says on her site that something Harry finds out in CoS foreshadows something he finds out in book 6 so i believe that the thing he finds out in book 2, dumbledore loving halfbloods and muggleborns, foreshadows his finding out that Dumbledore is actually the "prince" of the half-bloods.

You do make a good point. I consider it a possibility. I would still think of Harry as the heir of Gryffindor (check out Comic Book Worms diffinitive arguement!). That is true that Dumbledore was first mentioned in 'Chamber' to be known as the champion of commoners, Mud-bloods, etc....I think that would be a good Idea to put Dumbledore as the prince. Another thing I read is this:
Originally posted by Comic Book Worm:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR Website FAQ
In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

A discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'. what did harry discover in 'Chamber' that will foreshadow something he finds out in 'Prince'? As we are yet to know the details of 'Prince' lets just sleuth a little. things he discovers: That their are heirs to the houses,
He could have possibly been Slytherins heir no matter how much he fought it(we did not know for sure that he was not the heir until the end!).
He would've been placed in slytherin by the hat if he did not choose/want to be in Gryffindor,
He discovered that he belongs in Gryffindor,
Only a true gryffindor could have pulled the sword form the hat(a true Gryffindor-but any Gryffindor?,
He discovered he was a parselmouth,
The chamber itself was a discovery,
the diary was a discovery,
the basilisk was a discovery,
slitherin started all the pure-blood/mud-blood stuff,
floo powder,
the heir of slytherin is Tom Riddle/Voldemort,
Cornelius Fudge,
Aragog,
the reason hagrid was expelled,
Justin Finch-Fletchley (why would a kid have a last name like that?-like two last names put together? also that he is half-blood),
Fwakes-Dumbledore's Pheonix,
how dueling supposedly is(as if gilderoy was a good teacher),
Need I mention anything more? Well if anyone remembers something that I have not mentioned feel free to comment! :blush: how do we know that these things will possibly relate to Half Blood Prince. i did not mention Gilderoy-he has already been debunked!
I would also like to add this quote since I agree with CBW about he Gryffindor theory-

[QUOTE]ComicBookWorm: I've thought about something I'm going to add to my case for Gryffindor. JKR likes to hide information in plain sight. It's her primary method of misdirection. I think that saying that Harry is a "true Gryffindor is one of those instances. We are led to believe it is Harry's worry about being put in Slytherin, when it also means that he is descended from Gryffindor. She repeatedly surprises us with information that we could have had if we had only looked more closely. This could be one of those times. I think that the story of the HBP, if it is Gryffindor, is something that we will need in order to for Harry to discover he is the heir, which will then aid him somehow in his struggle with Voldemort. So it was something that only had a slither of it given in 'Chamber' and that is about to re-occur I 'Half Blood Prince'.
But which discovery seems most significant? Well, I put this out there to better organize my own thoughts, and maybe someone elses, since these are only clues from 'the Chamber of Secrets'. It may help to select the best clue from COS if it were narrowed down. :p so help me out if there is anything that can be added.

Jessica
February 15th, 2005, 4:37 am
PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!

ComicBookWorm
February 15th, 2005, 5:03 am
I was just curious about Neville....in CoS it is mentioned that his family was afraid he was muggle....doesn't that mean that his family isn't very pureblooded-or ancient blooed.
Dumbledore says Neville is a pureblood in OotP.

True. But is there just one definition, or did JKR simply give us the more obvious definition? If the prince comes from a mix of one pureblood family that wasn't royalty, and another family that was, it kind of justifies the reason he's called "half-blood prince" without having to give him a mix of muggle/magic blood. It just doesn't seem like Rowling to focus on the whole issue of blood bias for a book title- every other title dealt with objects/events that didn't have any sort of biased description, or a person or organization without any kind of biased description attached to it (save Order of the Phoenix). I guess this title is just kind of throwing me off because its unlike the other titles that came before it.
The prejudice in the wizarding world is the central theme. The pureblood mania has been compared with the Nazis treatment of the Jews by JKR. That is a compelling enough reason for a title.

what happens if pureblood families marry into half blood families?are they still pure bloods?Yes, but they will be called blood traitors, and any children they have will be half-bloods.

luvygrifindor
February 15th, 2005, 5:07 am
Dumbledore says Neville is a pureblood in OotP.


The prejudice in the wizarding world is the central theme. The pureblood mania has been compared with the Nazis treatment of the Jews by JKR. That is a compelling enough reason for a title.

Yes, but they will be called blood traitors, and any children they have will be half-bloods.
Blood traitors are also just people like the weasley's too, right? Sirius said if there ever were abunch of blood traitors it's the weasley family.

ComicBookWorm
February 15th, 2005, 5:29 am
Blood traitors are also just people like the weasley's too, right? Sirius said if there ever were abunch of blood traitors it's the weasley family.Yeah, anyone who helps or associates with the non-purebloods is a blood traitor. We have an obnoxious hateful term used by bigots for whites who assist or befriend blacks. It's "blank" lover (substitute the appropriate perjorative word for blacks for the word "blank"). Blood traitor is a direct equivalent.

luvygrifindor
February 15th, 2005, 7:04 am
Yeah, anyone who helps or associates with the non-purebloods is a blood traitor. We have an obnoxious hateful term used by bigots for whites who assist or befriend blacks. It's "blank" lover (substitute the appropriate perjorative word for blacks for the word "blank"). Blood traitor is a direct equivalent.
Ouch! Wow! I take in the whole offensiveness of the words as it is put into terms I understand and have dealt with! That is a good clarification, it really shows how deep the blood status runs! This makes me think of the people who fought against segregation. That sort of hate runs thick in some very old-time parts of the U.S. which I have stayed in.

i know this is off topic but i am off to bed but i will be posting tomorrow! :blush: so happy posting to all!

demiguise 4
February 15th, 2005, 12:41 pm
i think that the half-blood prince is bound to be a new character because all of the likely supspects from previous books have been ruled out, there either pure bloods, muggle born or have been out ruled by JKR, and if the discription that was on JKR site was of the half-blood prince then its deninatly a new character because i cant think of any character that fits that discription.

(He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

From that disription i would ahve thought he would be the heir of Griffindor because of the looking like an old lion part (the sign for Griffindor being a lion) but thats just my opinion and i think its highly unlikely that the heir of griffindor would be the half blood prince.

4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?

They dont neccissarily have to have been in the second book, i thought that it would have been obvious why she was going to use harry potter and that half blood prince as the title of the second book, since LV was a half blood thanks to his dear old dad, so it doesnt mean that the character has to be in the second book.

flubio
February 15th, 2005, 1:08 pm
1)Because of the translations (that are approved by Jk and her publisher) we can conclude that the Prince is a half blood.
2)JK said on her site that having one muggle grandparent was enough to be half-blood. She wouldn΄t tell s that if half-blood was refered to the noble mixed blood.
3) I bet my right hand that the lion-like man IS Felix Felices.

demiguise 4
February 15th, 2005, 1:16 pm
3) I bet my right hand that the lion-like man IS Felix Felices.
who even says that Felix Felices is even a person and you thin we might have found out who the HBP is before cp. 14 scine the book is only 608 pages long.

ComicBookWorm
February 15th, 2005, 1:20 pm
Well chapters are not ever of uniform length but chapter 14 isn't even halfway. I can't know if Felix Felices is a person or not, but he wouldn't be appearing too late in the book if he is the HBP.

elethoniel
February 15th, 2005, 4:58 pm
From that disription i would ahve thought he would be the heir of Griffindor because of the looking like an old lion part (the sign for Griffindor being a lion) but thats just my opinion and i think its highly unlikely that the heir of griffindor would be the half blood prince.


I still believe the HBP to be Godric Gryffindor, nobody said the HBP has to still be alive. Plus Red and Gold are extremely royal colours (hence Gryffindor) and aren't Lions supposed to rule to jungle? This could just be (and is more than likely to be true) me clutching at straws.

I like the thought of Felix (if he (it?) is a person) being the HBP, maybe he is also Gryffindor related... As in Britain the name Felix is linked to a cat...

But a part of me still doesn't think the HBP is a new character, I don't think JK would bring in a new character specifically for that role, plus she did say it has something to do with CoS. I think the HBP is someone we know of, not neccessarily an active character just maybe someone that has been mentioned in passing....

PotterFan7
February 16th, 2005, 2:40 am
I'm just letting everyone know right now that YES... I HAVE READ THE LIST, but I disagree with it. Crookshanks is ruled out because he is not an animagus, and therefore he cannot possibly be the half-blood-prince, but I see otherwise. I agree that Crookshanks is not an animagus (I would be crazy not to agree because it came right from JKR) but the tid-bit of information I think that we are all forgetting is that JKR said that Crookshanks is NOT JUST A CAT.

She has clearly stated more than once that Crookshanks is part cat- part kneazle (and for those of you that do not know what that is, I suggest you get Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them- it has very useful information and one of the words used to describe the Kneazle is lion). This in fact would allow him to be the half-blood-prince without him having to be an animagus.

There have been many comments made about the cat, saying how smart he is... maybe this could be our half-blood friend.

GrangerGal
February 16th, 2005, 3:26 am
Is it me or did we have more spoilers about book 5 by now? Or am I just fishing for information... Anyway PotterFan7 I do not think that Crookshanks is the HBP however you give very valid points and I agree that he could still be in the running. Maybe he has more significance than we think.

On the other hand he is a cat and this story line was originally supposed to be in book two and Crookshanks wasn't in the books until book 3.

Wow what a waste of parchment I just wrote... I am definitely off to bed! Good luck defending your Crookshanks theory!

Corbin Dallas
February 16th, 2005, 3:38 am
Well chapters are not ever of uniform length but chapter 14 isn't even halfway. I can't know if Felix Felices is a person or not, but he wouldn't be appearing too late in the book if he is the HBP.
Kind of like the Heir of Slytherin :eyebrows:
Cheers
:tu: :cool: :tu:

Mugwump84
February 16th, 2005, 3:46 am
Wait... The HBP storyline is likely to be not directly part of the Harry vs LV fight. If it was originally the plot of book 2, then the Harry vs LV storyline may not have been developed enough. The HBP storyline will still be important to the fight, but it will start as a side-plot.

Am I making sense?

luvygrifindor
February 16th, 2005, 3:49 am
I'm just letting everyone know right now that YES... I HAVE READ THE LIST, but I disagree with it. Crookshanks is ruled out because he is not an animagus, and therefore he cannot possibly be the half-blood-prince, but I see otherwise. I agree that Crookshanks is not an animagus (I would be crazy not to agree because it came right from JKR) but the tid-bit of information I think that we are all forgetting is that JKR said that Crookshanks is NOT JUST A CAT.

She has clearly stated more than once that Crookshanks is part cat- part kneazle (and for those of you that do not know what that is, I suggest you get Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them- it has very useful information and one of the words used to describe the Kneazle is lion). This in fact would allow him to be the half-blood-prince without him having to be an animagus.

There have been many comments made about the cat, saying how smart he is... maybe this could be our half-blood friend.

Well, I have to agree with Granger Gal on this one! Since he is a cat, and extremely well groomed according to the extras on the POA DVD, I'd say he is a prince of a cat. He may even be considered a half-blooded prince since he is half kneazle and half cat and princely for a cat. but I really doubt that JK would make the cat anything more than it is. The cat I feel is just not what JK was referring to in the 'Half Blood Prince'. I'd like to say she completely debunked this, I don't recall her exact quote but I believe she answered only wether he was animagus or kneazle. Since He is not animagus I don't think the wizarding world will be bowing down :blush: . But if you can get proof he is, then more power to you! But that was a nice Idea.

Wait... The HBP storyline is likely to be not directly part of the Harry vs LV fight. If it was originally the plot of book 2, then the Harry vs LV storyline may not have been developed enough. The HBP storyline will still be important to the fight, but it will start as a side-plot.

Am I making sense?

Yes, You are! :p

atherella
February 16th, 2005, 5:21 pm
Well, I have to agree with Granger Gal on this one! Since he is a cat, and extremely well groomed according to the extras on the POA DVD, I'd say he is a prince of a cat. He may even be considered a half-blooded prince since he is half kneazle and half cat and princely for a cat. but I really doubt that JK would make the cat anything more than it is. The cat I feel is just not what JK was referring to in the 'Half Blood Prince'. I'd like to say she completely debunked this, I don't recall her exact quote but I believe she answered only wether he was animagus or kneazle. Since He is not animagus I don't think the wizarding world will be bowing down :blush: . But if you can get proof he is, then more power to you! But that was a nice Idea.


If the cat is half cat and half kneazle, wouldn't that be a half breed, rather than a half-blood? (Like Hagrid is said to be a half-breed I believe. Half-giant and half-wizard.) I could be wrong, but I believe that was what I read somewhere. :)

arleneskil
February 16th, 2005, 10:12 pm
I would have to agree with potterfan7 - there is something about Crookshanks that is not yet accounted for by the fact that he is half kneezle. On the other hand however IF Crookshanks was indeed proved to be the HBP them wouldn't that turn out to be a bit of a repition of the whole Scabbers/Peter Pettigrew thing! I think it unlikly that this is to be repeated in any of the future books as a major plot line at least. I personally think that Lupin holds more secrets yet and that as one of the origanal Mauraders he has a part to play in the resolution of all this, for one thing we do not know his lineage prior to the warewolf bite, before that he was not half breed but could be half blood. I know he was not introduced till book three but JKR did say all traces of the HBP plot were removed/abandoned in that book. lupin quite apart from being a powerfull wizard appears to possess a lot of old/ancient trunks, briefcases ect, perhaps he has wizard relatives,( that may also help answer the question of why the letters on his briefcase are old and peeling, perhaps someone in his bloodline shares the same initials!) Who knows what Lupin could have been before that fatefull bite, JKR has a habit of revealing unexpected things about characters that suddenly sheds new light on aspect of their character that we previously thought nothing about, perhaps book 6 will answer a few questions about our good friend Remus, DD obviously thinks he is important as he is in the order although I note that we don't really hear about exactly what he is doing in the fight against Voldimort.

ComicBookWorm
February 16th, 2005, 10:37 pm
JKR has said that Lupin is a half-blood.

luvygrifindor
February 16th, 2005, 11:07 pm
JKR has said that Lupin is a half-blood.

Being a where wolf doesn't deflect from his status does it? He is half-blood. He is only a half-breed in only Umbridge's eyes right? It would be interesting to have Lupin be the pince. It would be interesting to know who the Half-Blood Prince is period! :lol: Just a few more months..... :whistle:

Thank you for the correction Atherella- that was what I meant. :blush:

But then again, there was no mention of Lupin in book 2.

ComicBookWorm
February 17th, 2005, 8:34 am
There's also a JKR quote stating that Lupin was always intended for book 3.

profmcgonagal
February 17th, 2005, 5:26 pm
In Goblet of Fire, she wrote that the Malfoy's considered Draco Malfoy to be treated like royalty...but that he was only half Black...Sirius's ancester....think about it...one of the chapters has been hinted at ...Draco's Detour...detour from what....he's obviously a main character...now part of a chapter...she's mentioned it in passing...and that is a big clue...remember what Sirius said when he introduced Harry to his "family Tree!" reread..it's an eye opener! Also...she said there were a LOT OF HINTS in the 4th book.....more than just the ending where Harry defeats V for the 5th time...

Jessica
February 17th, 2005, 7:41 pm
Right, but she confirms on her website and many times in the books that Draco is a pure blood and not a half blood. :)

flubio
February 18th, 2005, 12:34 am
who even says that Felix Felices is even a person and you thin we might have found out who the HBP is before cp. 14 scine the book is only 608 pages long.

Never said the lion man was the HBP...
And do you want to put YOUR hand that he is not a person?
Or paypal money ? :eyebrows:
Felix Felices - both words have the same roots as feline.
I wish I could wn something betting with you but I think you won΄t make my wish come tru..

PotterFan7
February 18th, 2005, 1:16 am
I agree that it would be a lot like the scabbers/peter thing... but the passage out of the book that JKR gave us (after the secret door of her web-site opened the 2nd time) said something about him looking lion-like... I dont know if it was just me, but when I read it, I pictured Crookshanks.

I don't really know if we can say there is a difference between a half-blood and a half-breed, because either way, (wizard)- 1/2 blood means 1/2 muggle 1/2 wizard, (Crooshanks)- 1/2 blood means 1/2 cat, 1/2 kneazle... (I dont know if I'm making any sense)

... It's just a thought, I'm in the middle of reading book 4 for clues but I think one major clue is JKR does nothing for no reason. there HAS to be a reason for Crookshanks to be 1/2 Kneazle (otherwise we would've already known it through the books, not by what she told us)

profmcgonagal
February 18th, 2005, 2:11 am
OK...now ....DRACO is only Half Blood BLACK!!!! not half muggle...he's treated like royalty...said Sirius in OotP....and he's Malfoy...but half BLACK!!!

Meltay
February 18th, 2005, 2:16 am
Crookshanks was half kneazle to explain why he tried to get scabbers and bring him to Sirius. That's not something a normal cat would do.

I'm intrigued by the idea that it's Godric Gryfindor. The Half-Blood Prince does not still half to be alive and Binns could have easily gave Godric Gryfindor's history in CoS (but perhaps it was cut out?) This doesn't have to infer that Harry is related to him in some way. Also, I like the idea of it being Godric Gryfindor because he is dead. There has been several theories that Harry might travel beyond the veil, where he heard people who were dead? People like Godric Gryfindor? Just an idea.

And I did want to say one thing (this is my first post, so I'm probably babbling), I think we have no reason to think Snape is probably a pureblood. I think its strange that his mother (if it was in fact his mother) would have been cowering and crying in his memory if she'd been a witch. Why not hex her husband? Why not throw up a shield? That whole scene during Occlumency Lessons screamed halfblood to me. We also know that Snape has a major story yet to come out. He's definately a strong possibility.

Mel

PotterFan7
February 18th, 2005, 2:26 am
Even in the 'real world' when people are in an abusive relationship, it's very hard for them to sand up for themselves. Sure you can say that she coudl've just hexed him, but if he was truely abusive... what would he have done to her in return? (Sorry... that may have been TOTALLY off topic because it has nothing to do with the HBP)

I always thought that Snape would've been a pure-blood too, but now that you mention the scene where his parents are arguing, it's got me thinking. They always say that when people are brought up in an abusive home, they tend to repeat the abuse... maybe Snape's mother was a muggle, and in their arguments his father always called her a mudblood... this would show some reason why Snape called Lily a mudblood in his worst memory.

Jessica
February 18th, 2005, 2:31 am
Crookshanks was half kneazle to explain why he tried to get scabbers and bring him to Sirius. That's not something a normal cat would do.

I'm intrigued by the idea that it's Godric Gryfindor. The Half-Blood Prince does not still half to be alive and Binns could have easily gave Godric Gryfindor's history in CoS (but perhaps it was cut out?) This doesn't have to infer that Harry is related to him in some way. Also, I like the idea of it being Godric Gryfindor because he is dead. There has been several theories that Harry might travel beyond the veil, where he heard people who were dead? People like Godric Gryfindor? Just an idea.

And I did want to say one thing (this is my first post, so I'm probably babbling), I think we have no reason to think Snape is probably a pureblood. I think its strange that his mother (if it was in fact his mother) would have been cowering and crying in his memory if she'd been a witch. Why not hex her husband? Why not throw up a shield? That whole scene during Occlumency Lessons screamed halfblood to me. We also know that Snape has a major story yet to come out. He's definately a strong possibility.

Mel


If you look at the list at the top of the page (ish) you'll see that Gryffindor and Snape are both considered strong options. :)

And don't worry about babbling. It all made sense. Welcome to the boards :D

(nevermind new page - needed to re-post anyway)

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!

BrookMctirre
February 18th, 2005, 2:38 am
Who is The Wizard?

PotterFan7
February 18th, 2005, 3:07 am
Sorry this could be off the topic... but was Lily a muggle-born witch? or is she a 1/2 blood? Because JKR said there is more to know about aunt petunia? (but I thought she was all-muggle- just hoping i'm wrong)

Meltay
February 18th, 2005, 3:10 am
She's definately muggleborn. Mubbleborn siblings can be all magical though. Dennis and Colin Creavy both are muggleborn wizards.

GinnyPotter101
February 18th, 2005, 3:16 am
i was thinking do normal people have heirs? like would you say that i am my great great grandfthers heir? ANyway i was thinking
Slythern-- Pure-blood Prince
Gryffindor-- Half-blood prince
Raven And Huffle could be either, i just think taht they were princes of something and slythern was pure and gryffindor was half blood. i dont know. Anyway, that could be the source of their argument slythern is pure, gryffindor was half blood? maybe...
Also a thought Harry finds out that Voldemort is related to SS in COS maybe in HBP he finds outthat DUMBLEDORE (or someone, i was ust using DD as example) is related to GG (they would sorta forshadow like JKR said)

Also,ion COS did anyone else notice that McGonnagal shouldve been a 7th year? Does that mean DD taught her?

Puchula
February 19th, 2005, 2:04 am
Who is The Wizard?
He's one of the Admins of the site. You can click here (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) to see his profile, or click on his name on the list Jessica posted too.

enthusiast
February 19th, 2005, 10:05 pm
I have been directed that discussion about the upcoming book in general can be discussed on this thread in addition to discussion of the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. So, here goes . . . do you think that now that Dumbledore has admitted that he regrets trying to keep Harry in the dark about some subjects the two of them will forge an even closer bond? In the interview for the DVD of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban the actors who play the Dursleys spoke of wanting to visit Hogwarts someday. Though they were told that would be out of character for the Dursleys do you see the possiblity of at least say Aunt Petunia becoming more sympathetic a character? Well, that is all that I can think of off the top of my head, but look forward to possibly discussing other ideas on this thread later.

Sarah

BrookMctirre
February 20th, 2005, 12:54 am
OK but if he is the HBP, he was never mentioned in the books. So why is he on the list?

Jessica
February 20th, 2005, 1:10 am
OK but if he is the HBP, he was never mentioned in the books. So why is he on the list?

It's a joke ;)

ComicBookWorm
February 20th, 2005, 2:38 am
I have been directed that discussion about the upcoming book in general can be discussed on this thread in addition to discussion of the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. So, here goes . . . do you think that now that Dumbledore has admitted that he regrets trying to keep Harry in the dark about some subjects the two of them will forge an even closer bond? In the interview for the DVD of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban the actors who play the Dursleys spoke of wanting to visit Hogwarts someday. Though they were told that would be out of character for the Dursleys do you see the possiblity of at least say Aunt Petunia becoming more sympathetic a character? Well, that is all that I can think of off the top of my head, but look forward to possibly discussing other ideas on this thread later.

Sarah
Unless something has changed we are only discussing the possible identity of the HBP in this thread. There are quite a few threads discussing Dumbledore and Petunia in the both History of Magic and Divination forums. I sorry if you were directed to discuss them here, but that was a mistake.

:welcome: to the forums. There are so many interesting threads I'm sure you'll find what you need.

enthusiast
February 20th, 2005, 3:18 am
Thank you ComicBookWorm for the welcome and directions of where to go with my questions.

Enjoy you discussion of the identity of the Half-Blood Prince,
Sarah

ComicBookWorm
February 20th, 2005, 3:58 am
Thank you ComicBookWorm for the welcome and directions of where to go with my questions.

Enjoy you discussion of the identity of the Half-Blood Prince,
Sarah
I have some physical problems with my hands or I would have given you more precise directions. Just search on Dumbledore (or petunia or whatever). Be sure to use advanced search and set your search to show threads. Here is a link to the search tutorial. Seach Tutorial (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=31651)

kate_star
February 20th, 2005, 7:07 am
Crookshanks IS possible. He (?) is not an animagus, but is a part kneasle. So Crookshanks is considered a half-blood.

ComicBookWorm
February 20th, 2005, 8:37 am
He's a mixture of cat and kneazle and at best could be called a half-breed. But JKR has been consistently using the term half-blood to mean a wizard/muggle mixture and put a lot of content up on her website defining the term. But even half-breed has only been used when there is a wizard mized with another non-magical being like a giant, in the case of Hagrid.

Nagisa
February 21st, 2005, 8:10 pm
Hello people! Long time no see!

Just thought you guys would like to know, there's a Half-Blood Prince poll at Scholastic (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/shrieking_shack/index.asp).

Now, here's the thing. Scholastic actually has a copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince -- they're editing it right now. I think (and I'm willing to listen to a good counter-argument) that their list have the real answer to our riddle -- after all, they're among the few in the world who know for sure.

Their list: Seamus Finnegan
Hagrid
Dean Thomas
Professor Lupin
Neville Longbottom
Ron Weasley
Professor Dumbledore
Sirius Black
Professor Snape
Draco Malfoy
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
Comparing our list, and eliminating the eliminated, that leaves us with: Seamus Finnegan
Professor Lupin
Professor Dumbledore
Professor Snape
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
I would bet that our Half-Blood Prince is on this second, 6-person list :)

Machiavelli
February 21st, 2005, 8:12 pm
Hello people! Long time no see!

Just thought you guys would like to know, there's a Half-Blood Prince poll at Scholastic (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/shrieking_shack/index.asp).

Now, here's the thing. Scholastic actually has a copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince -- they're editing it right now. I think (and I'm willing to listen to a good counter-argument) that their list have the real answer to our riddle -- after all, they're among the few in the world who know for sure.

Their list: Seamus Finnegan
Hagrid
Dean Thomas
Professor Lupin
Neville Longbottom
Ron Weasley
Professor Dumbledore
Sirius Black
Professor Snape
Draco Malfoy
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
Comparing our list, and eliminating the eliminated, that leaves us with: Seamus Finnegan
Professor Lupin
Professor Dumbledore
Professor Snape
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
I would bet that our Half-Blood Prince is on this second, 6-person list :)
Ooooh - good one! Although they could theoretically not include the actual Prince... someone have a good argument why that would happen?

Jessica
February 21st, 2005, 8:14 pm
Hello people! Long time no see!

Just thought you guys would like to know, there's a Half-Blood Prince poll at Scholastic (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/shrieking_shack/index.asp).

Now, here's the thing. Scholastic actually has a copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince -- they're editing it right now. I think (and I'm willing to listen to a good counter-argument) that their list have the real answer to our riddle -- after all, they're among the few in the world who know for sure.

Their list: Seamus Finnegan
Hagrid
Dean Thomas
Professor Lupin
Neville Longbottom
Ron Weasley
Professor Dumbledore
Sirius Black
Professor Snape
Draco Malfoy
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
Comparing our list, and eliminating the eliminated, that leaves us with: Seamus Finnegan
Professor Lupin
Professor Dumbledore
Professor Snape
Godric Gryffindor
A New Character
I would bet that our Half-Blood Prince is on this second, 6-person list :)


WOW! Great find Nagisa.

I agree completely with your logic.

Anyone else have a counter-argument?

EDIT: I just went to the page and it looks like this list is based on fan submissions not from anyone who has actually read the book.

Drat!

Nagisa
February 21st, 2005, 8:24 pm
EDIT: I just went to the page and it looks like this list is based on fan submissions not from anyone who has actually read the book.

Drat!

Oh well. It was a good theory while it lasted.

(9 minutes is practically a record for one of my theories :D)

Machiavelli
February 21st, 2005, 8:29 pm
Oh well. It was a good theory while it lasted.You could give the theory the kiss of life by saying Scholastic edited and posted that list and thereby gave it some sort of official holy writ status... or not...

PotterFan7
February 21st, 2005, 8:32 pm
hmm... it'll be interesting to find out how close we came, i just wish we had another hint to help eliminate some options...

Jessica
February 21st, 2005, 8:52 pm
You could give the theory the kiss of life by saying Scholastic edited and posted that list and thereby gave it some sort of official holy writ status... or not...

Well, maybe they'll do an official poll at some point :D

Machiavelli
February 21st, 2005, 8:56 pm
Well, maybe they'll do an official poll at some point :D
One can only hope... or can we pretend that it's an official list and do some debating off that? It would be nice to clear the decks just a bit - there's a fair amount of flotsam around...

Jessica
February 21st, 2005, 10:29 pm
I'm for culling.

Raise your hand if you object to trying to elminate the "flotsam".

or the "jetsom" :D

Allemande
February 22nd, 2005, 4:57 am
I was just on JK's official site, and she did a profile of Mugglenet :clap:
anyways, she said that she actually voted in the half-blood prince poll.
So, assuming that her vote went to the person who actually is the HBP, who do you think she would have voted for?
Here is the list of options Mugglenet had:
Tom Riddle, Lupin, Snape, Godric Gryffindor, Dean Thomas, Hagrid, Someone else, a character we haven't been introduced to yet, or I have no idea (I don't think she would have chosen this option)
sorry if this has been posted before

I think that from this list, the only options we can eliminate for sure are Tom Riddle and the I have no idea one

Sorry if someone posted this before

ComicBookWorm
February 22nd, 2005, 7:22 am
Although the fans voted on the list, Scholastic had to put up the options. I think that someone on the Scholastic list is the HBP. They wouldn't deliberately leave off the name of the HBP since that would be an unnecessarily nasty trick for their website viewers.

I don't think we can put much weight on the Mugglenet list since she could have voted for "other".

Of course it could be a new character and there isn't much that we can say intelligently about it.

Jinky Growl
February 22nd, 2005, 9:38 am
I think most people have basically decided that a) its a new character and b) the identity of the HBP is not the most important thing about the HBP...

ComicBookWorm
February 22nd, 2005, 10:35 am
I think most people have basically decided that a) its a new character and b) the identity of the HBP is not the most important thing about the HBP...

I don't think that most people have decided that. All of the polls taken usually have one of the recognizable characters as the winner.

Machiavelli
February 22nd, 2005, 2:11 pm
I'm for culling.

Raise your hand if you object to trying to elminate the "flotsam".

or the "jetsom" :DDuck and cover Jess! There are passionate types who want to drastically expand the list...

Jinky Growl
February 22nd, 2005, 3:58 pm
I was going by the analysis I've read - I don't pay much attention to polls...

ComicBookWorm
February 23rd, 2005, 7:18 am
I was going by the analysis I've read - I don't pay much attention to polls...
Then how else would you know how most people have decided? The polls are the only way I can think of to tell us what a lot of people are thinking.

Perhaps you could give us a link to what you've read that has said otherwise.

Elder Granger
February 23rd, 2005, 7:38 am
I'm all for some flotsam removal!

xRheax
February 23rd, 2005, 10:15 am
there was a boy put in Slytherin house in GoF (Harry's 4th year) by the name of Malcolm Baddock. Malcolm is a scottish name and it means royal blood. And I for don't think you have to be a pure blood to get into Slytherin though I don't think that house would ever take a muggle born either. Granted I belive 99.9% of all those ever in Slytherin have been or are at this time pure blood

scouse_7
February 23rd, 2005, 1:28 pm
Heres a little guess that i'm saying.Maybe the Half Blood prince could be the basilisks'(that was killed in book2)son or daughter.This is a wild guest but i have just found a website on Basilisks and it says this;The word ‘basilisk’ is from the Greek basiliskos meaning "little king".this would mean that since the son/daughter of the basilisk is related to the king it would be made prince.The maybe the Basilisk had produced the son/daughter with another animal to make it "half-blood" I know this is a wild guess but I do actually believe it is a new character and it could be anyone or anything......

ComicBookWorm
February 23rd, 2005, 1:40 pm
JKR has used the term half-blood to only refer to wizard/muggle mixes. She defined it that way on her website and used it that way in the story. It will be a wizard (not an animal) with wizard/muggle blood, who is in some way a prince.

scouse_7
February 23rd, 2005, 4:47 pm
O ok then,I ain't been on this forum 4 a bit and all the other hp.Sooooo I didnt know.Thanks.

Jessica
February 23rd, 2005, 5:40 pm
PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!

Crookshanksy
February 23rd, 2005, 7:55 pm
I'm afraid I don't have the energy to read the 8 forums on this subgect before I tell everyone my theory, which I am sure has been mentioned before and completely obliterated by the clever minds of all the people in these forums that always seem to find the flaws in my theories that I always seem to miss!
THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE IS VOLDEMORT'S SON!
It makes absolute sense to me... JK said that 'Voldemort has never loved anyone' in answer to the last question she was asked in Edinburgh... then she said that that 'led it nicely on to Half Blood Prince'. The connection with CoS is that maybe in the original, LV wanted to find this long lost son, either to give him his 'heritage' and power of his birthright, or to kill him for the shame of being a half-blood. Voldie disappeared after school, according to the books, and nothing is known about what happened in that time; could he have had a 'tryst' with a muggle or muggle-born woman? I think it is possible. He was young and everybody has 'lapses in concentration'.
I doubt LV would love this son, but he could definitely be a part of the story, in being either useful to him (which I don't think he would be) or in his being a threat to him and his reputation with the DEs.
The son would be a prince because Voldemort is a leader, and the son of the leader is the prince.
I know you are all going to shoot this down in flames, so tell me, why isn't this possible?

Jessica
February 23rd, 2005, 8:19 pm
Unfortunately JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.

Take a look at the post above yours for a summary of the past eight threads :)

TigerSnake
February 23rd, 2005, 9:27 pm
I doubt anyone has guessed what I'm about to post because I sure haven't read it any where.

Maybe Salazar Slytherin had help from someone in building the CoS (I mean the place is huge, he must of needed help from someone). The decedent of this "helper" was suppose to appear in the 2nd book but JK decided to take him out of the storyline of the 2nd book and give him his own book (the 5th). This decedent is a half-blood, while his ancestor (the guy who helped Salazar) wasn't because Salazar only liked pure-bloods.

Another possibility: I don't think JK has confirmed this "Prince" is alive or dead. The Half-blood Prine could've been this guy who helped Salazar build the CoS (and he didn't tell Salazar he was a half-blood). Then the 5th book will be about the history and the significance of this person.

Well my ideas are farfetched (I admit), but who knows? We'll just wait and see.

FoxyKnoxy
February 24th, 2005, 12:42 am
I never considered any historical characters before. I am thinking a new historical character important to the plot but not so much to Harry's everyday life. Perhaps Hermione discovers the identity of this historical HBP and the information about this person aids Harry in some way to help him defeat what ever Voldemort is sending after him this time! I know that sounded pretty vague but until the book comes out or until JKR gives us something new to go on, we won't know for sure!

Also I loved the idea that Lupin is the HBP. We have heard so much about the rest of the Marauders but not so much him. Might this be the time we learn more about his life after the Potter's death???

TigerSnake
February 24th, 2005, 4:02 am
Wether or not Lupin is the HBP, we HAVE to find out more about our werewolf friend.

jodiez
February 24th, 2005, 4:47 am
I'm afraid I don't have the energy to read the 8 forums on this subgect before I tell everyone my theory, which I am sure has been mentioned before and completely obliterated by the clever minds of all the people in these forums that always seem to find the flaws in my theories that I always seem to miss!
THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE IS VOLDEMORT'S SON!
It makes absolute sense to me... JK said that 'Voldemort has never loved anyone' in answer to the last question she was asked in Edinburgh... then she said that that 'led it nicely on to Half Blood Prince'. The connection with CoS is that maybe in the original, LV wanted to find this long lost son, either to give him his 'heritage' and power of his birthright, or to kill him for the shame of being a half-blood. Voldie disappeared after school, according to the books, and nothing is known about what happened in that time; could he have had a 'tryst' with a muggle or muggle-born woman? I think it is possible. He was young and everybody has 'lapses in concentration'.
I doubt LV would love this son, but he could definitely be a part of the story, in being either useful to him (which I don't think he would be) or in his being a threat to him and his reputation with the DEs.
The son would be a prince because Voldemort is a leader, and the son of the leader is the prince.
I know you are all going to shoot this down in flames, so tell me, why isn't this possible?
I'll just clarify this because I am bored, Dumbledore states in CoS that Tom Riddle (aka Voldemort) was the last surviving decendent of Salazar Slytherin.

I doubt anyone has guessed what I'm about to post because I sure haven't read it any where.

Maybe Salazar Slytherin had help from someone in building the CoS (I mean the place is huge, he must of needed help from someone). The decedent of this "helper" was suppose to appear in the 2nd book but JK decided to take him out of the storyline of the 2nd book and give him his own book (the 5th). This decedent is a half-blood, while his ancestor (the guy who helped Salazar) wasn't because Salazar only liked pure-bloods.

Another possibility: I don't think JK has confirmed this "Prince" is alive or dead. The Half-blood Prine could've been this guy who helped Salazar build the CoS (and he didn't tell Salazar he was a half-blood). Then the 5th book will be about the history and the significance of this person.

Well my ideas are farfetched (I admit), but who knows? We'll just wait and see.
There is no clue in any of the references to Salazar Slytherin in any of the books that he had any help in building the chamber, as it was a complete secret; even the other founders had no idea. And we must remember, that Salazar Slytherin was one of the most powerful wizards in history (it is stated in CoS that the founders were the best wizards of the age) and would not have needed help in building a chamber. Remember, all the founders built Hogwarts itself, and there is no reference to whether they had help, so one can only assume that they did it themselves by magic. In comparison to the rest of the school, the chamber of secrets is tiny.
I also agree with past comments that 'prince' does not have to literal. There are no royal families mentioned in the magical world at all. It would seem very unlikely to me that JKR would introduce a royal family in book 6.
Though I would like to mention something that has just come to mind, even though I do not think it would mean much, but I would just like to introduce it: in OotP, Sirius is talking to Harry about the opinions of his parents, and he said they thought that 'to be a Black practically made you royalty' (I don't have the book with me, so this quote may be a little off. But you can probably see the possible logic of this, they themselves considered themselves to be royalty. This is not necessarily what I think it will be, but it is food for thought.
It is hard to say, however, where the half blood prince will come from. Will he be a new student? An old student? A new teacher? An old teacher? An OotP member? A new OotP member? There really is not enough information to draw a educated conclusion.
also:

Also I loved the idea that Lupin is the HBP. We have heard so much about the rest of the Marauders but not so much him. Might this be the time we learn more about his life after the Potter's death???
I do not think that Lupin is a half blood, though I have no conclusive evidence to back this up. But in PoA, you learn that Sirius Black thought that it had been Lupin who had been working for Voldemort, and he would not have been brought to this conclusion if he did not believe that Lupin was a pure blood, because, as you know, Voldemort does not have any followers who are not pure blood. But I, like you, would love to learn more about Lupin. :D We know very little so far, and I would love to learn more.

I'm afraid I don't have the energy to read the 8 forums on this subgect before I tell everyone my theory, which I am sure has been mentioned before and completely obliterated by the clever minds of all the people in these forums that always seem to find the flaws in my theories that I always seem to miss!
THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE IS VOLDEMORT'S SON!
It makes absolute sense to me... JK said that 'Voldemort has never loved anyone' in answer to the last question she was asked in Edinburgh... then she said that that 'led it nicely on to Half Blood Prince'. The connection with CoS is that maybe in the original, LV wanted to find this long lost son, either to give him his 'heritage' and power of his birthright, or to kill him for the shame of being a half-blood. Voldie disappeared after school, according to the books, and nothing is known about what happened in that time; could he have had a 'tryst' with a muggle or muggle-born woman? I think it is possible. He was young and everybody has 'lapses in concentration'.
I doubt LV would love this son, but he could definitely be a part of the story, in being either useful to him (which I don't think he would be) or in his being a threat to him and his reputation with the DEs.
The son would be a prince because Voldemort is a leader, and the son of the leader is the prince.
I know you are all going to shoot this down in flames, so tell me, why isn't this possible?
I don't mean to harass you anymore, but if voldemort did have a son, if the mother was a pure blood, the child would be 3/4 blood. The only way he could have had a half blood son is to have a child with a half blood witch, and, as we know, he does not like anyone other than pure bloods, so that in itself would be unlikely.

ComicBookWorm
February 24th, 2005, 5:13 am
JKR confirmed that Lupin is a half-blood.Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

tarachristwen
February 24th, 2005, 6:56 am
there was a boy put in Slytherin house in GoF (Harry's 4th year) by the name of Malcolm Baddock. Malcolm is a scottish name and it means royal blood. And I for don't think you have to be a pure blood to get into Slytherin though I don't think that house would ever take a muggle born either. Granted I belive 99.9% of all those ever in Slytherin have been or are at this time pure blood

probably true...

Elder Granger
February 24th, 2005, 4:46 pm
I don't mean to harass you anymore, but if voldemort did have a son, if the mother was a pure blood, the child would be 3/4 blood. The only way he could have had a half blood son is to have a child with a half blood witch, and, as we know, he does not like anyone other than pure bloods, so that in itself would be unlikely.
Voldemort doesn't have any children, so this is realtively moot, but any child that Voldemort would have (with a pureblood, muggle, muggle-born or half-blood witch) would be considered a half-blood. Half-blood isn't a literal term, it just indicates part muggle and part wizard blood.

loona
February 24th, 2005, 5:00 pm
I'm sure everyone has seen THIS POSTER (http://hpana.com/imageviewer.cfm?nid=18512&f=hbp-poster.jpg). What I would like to point out is that all the books here are shown. We see the covers of all 5 ... in the purple parts there are 2 things Dobby and a snake ... do you think the mean anything? The snake is most likely representing Slytherin ... but why Dobby? Is it possible that he is the HBP? Or do you think Jo is trying to throw us off course?

Puchula
February 24th, 2005, 5:03 pm
I'm sure everyone has seen THIS POSTER (http://hpana.com/imageviewer.cfm?nid=18512&f=hbp-poster.jpg). What I would like to point out is that all the books here are shown. We see the covers of all 5 ... in the purple parts there are 2 things Dobby and a snake ... do you think the mean anything? The snake is most likely representing Slytherin ... but why Dobby? Is it possible that he is the HBP? Or do you think Jo is trying to throw us off course?
Well the womping willow is also there... It seems a little random to me. But there might be a reason, they might all play important parts on the book...

loona
February 24th, 2005, 5:15 pm
Well the womping willow is also there... It seems a little random to me. But there might be a reason, they might all play important parts on the book...

Yes but the womping willow isn't in purple. Whether or not it has anything to do with the identity of the HBP I agree that they play some kind of important role.

I think the pic with the willow is from POA because you see scabbers there too running towards the willow.

Machiavelli
February 24th, 2005, 5:36 pm
I'm sure everyone has seen THIS POSTER (http://hpana.com/imageviewer.cfm?nid=18512&f=hbp-poster.jpg). What I would like to point out is that all the books here are shown. We see the covers of all 5 ... in the purple parts there are 2 things Dobby and a snake ... do you think the mean anything? The snake is most likely representing Slytherin ... but why Dobby? Is it possible that he is the HBP? Or do you think Jo is trying to throw us off course?Um... Hedwig is also in purple in the top right of that poster. I don't think it's meant as a clue to the identity, nor do I think JKR is trying to confuse the issue. I think the poster was made as a graphic representation of what has happened before - and the choices on positioning and content are graphic choices rather than clues or hints.

As to the snake - seems to have reddish eyes and I would imagine it is meant to be either Nagini or Voldemort in snake form.

Puchula
February 24th, 2005, 5:39 pm
Yes but the womping willow isn't in purple. Whether or not it has anything to do with the identity of the HBP I agree that they play some kind of important role.

I think the pic with the willow is from POA because you see scabbers there too running towards the willow.
If I'm not mistaken that picture of Dobby appears at the begining of a chapter in CoS, maybe that's why it's in purple, because it doesn't have a background of it's own. I'm not sure about the snake though, haven't seen it before.

hbp_pom
February 25th, 2005, 3:41 am
Yes there should, but that could always happen... We don't know much about DD's family...


That'd be really cool. But I don't think he will, he didn't take it before and he's pretty much in the same position as he used to be back then so... Maybe he'll help find a replacement for Fudge.


Not sure... He should, but if the new Minister is one of the people that thinks Harry is a spoiled child then I don't think he'll allow it...
well it wont be albus dumbledore unless for sum reason the whole wizarding community go crazy and ask him yet magonnagle says dumbledore will stay at hogwarts and he never wanted the job

Puchula
February 25th, 2005, 3:54 am
well it wont be albus dumbledore unless for sum reason the whole wizarding community go crazy and ask him yet magonnagle says dumbledore will stay at hogwarts and he never wanted the job
Exactly my point :agree: Although I don't agree when you say the wizarding community wouldn't ask him again. He's a very important person and an aknowledged leader, people see him as some kind of icon. I'm could almost bet that they will, but I don't think he'll accept for the reason I said.

Allemande
February 25th, 2005, 3:57 am
Some (brain) food for thought:
At the Edinburgh Book Festival, JKR said the following about Snape:
Snape’s ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there.

Note that all she says is that Snape is not a muggle born; she does not say that he is pure blood. If he were, I am sure that she would have flat out said it, because, if I remember correctly, and I am almost positive I do, when asked if Lupin was a half-blood, she said "yes." (sorry, I don't have a link for this)

Anyways, I found it really odd how she would not confirm if Snape is a pure-blood or not, which makes me think he should be a candidate for the half-blood prince

oh, and here's the link to that interview:
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80

BlackVelvet
February 25th, 2005, 6:26 pm
Anyways, I found it really odd how she would not confirm if Snape is a pure-blood or not, which makes me think he should be a candidate for the half-blood prince

I agree with this, and I have some other points about Snape's parentage. The only hint we get about his parents comes the partial memory Harry glimpses during his occlumency lesson

"a hook nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark haired boy cried in a corner..." OotP chap.26

There's not much we can gather from this other than the speculation that Snape's father (presumed to be the "hook nosed man") verbally, if not physically, abused his mother. Think about this though. If Snape is a pureblood, his parents would both have to be a witch and wizard, right? Unless one was a squibb, which we've established is pretty rare. Well, ladies out there, if you were a witch, would you let your husband treat you that way? I know I wouldn't, I'd zap the jerk, not cower in fear!

My point is that maybe Snape's mother was a muggle herself. If JKR says Snape is not muggle born (muggle born meaning both parents are muggles) that doesn't leave out the possibility that one of his parents still could be a muggle. That said, could it also be possible then that Snape's mother was a muggle of some royal blood? :eyebrows: I have no evidence to support the royal theory but there is so much about Snape we just don't know yet so its possible.

As to the con of Snape calling Lily Evans a "filthy little mudblood" I think it is possible that this was just him lashing out because of the situation he was in. That and the fact that being rescued by a girl is any young man's worst nightmare. He might also have been trying to hide that his parents were not purebloods, and considering the House he was in I wouldn't blame him for doing so. He had enough problems fitting in without his own house members loathing him for being a mudblood. Lily seemed a bit stunned and perhaps hurt by the fact that Snape called her this. "Lily blinked. "Fine," she said coolly. "I won't bother in the future. And I'd wash your pants if I were you, Snivellus." She lashes him right back. Sort of out of character for her especially since she'd just tried to aid him. I think she was just angry.

Just some thoughts I had. :shrug:

P0pkin
February 25th, 2005, 6:29 pm
I haven’t posted much (as you can see) but has anyone done an anagram on Half Blood Prince? I got Bachelor Pinfold. Fun facts: One definition of a bachelor is: “a young knight who follows the banner of another” (www.m-w.com) and, being from the US, had no idea what a pinfold was. Apparently it’s another term for the word “pound” as in the basic monetary unit of the United Kingdom. What fun stuff can come out of this??

ikuko
February 25th, 2005, 6:36 pm
My point is that maybe Snape's mother was a muggle herself. If JKR says Snape is not muggle born (muggle born meaning both parents are muggles) that doesn't leave out the possibility that one of his parents still could be a muggle. That said, could it also be possible then that Snape's mother was a muggle of some royal blood? :eyebrows: I have no evidence to support the royal theory but there is so much about Snape we just don't know yet so its possible.
This argument does not stand. By that logic, if a muggle husband abuses a muggle wife, she should just hit him back and not put up with that. There is more to the power over another person than just physical or magical prowess. BTW, nothing indicates that Snape Sr. was not indeed more powerfull than his wife.

The family honour is apparently very valued among pure-blood families. I can easily imagine that a pure-blood wife would rather suffer abuse than "disgrace" the family.

And no, it is not possible that Snape was ever royal in any sense. It would be a well known fact, and we have heard a lot about his childhood and life. For one thing, when Fudge praizes Snape for the capture of Sirius in PoA and promises him Order of Merlin, he would have mentioned Snapes family if there was anything worth mentioning. Fudge has all the "wizarding pride" Malfoy Sr. ever wanted.

loona
February 25th, 2005, 6:55 pm
My point is that maybe Snape's mother was a muggle herself. If JKR says Snape is not muggle born (muggle born meaning both parents are muggles) that doesn't leave out the possibility that one of his parents still could be a muggle. That said, could it also be possible then that Snape's mother was a muggle of some royal blood? :eyebrows: I have no evidence to support the royal theory but there is so much about Snape we just don't know yet so its possible.



What if it was the other way around. What if he father was the muggle and his mother was the witch. Maybe this could be why Snape loathes mud-bloods so much, because of how his father (a muggle) treated his mother ( a witch). It's Voldemort syndrome. I also have to agree that I think Snape is indeed half blood. Take PS/SS for example. Unfortunately I don't have my book with me because I let someone borrow it, but near the end when Harry and Hermione are trying to get through Snapes potion puzzle, Hermione points out that its a logic puzzle. She then deamed it very smart on Snapes part because most wizards are't very good at logic. So why is Snape different from "most wizards"? It would make sense if he was half-blood :agree:

TigerSnake
February 25th, 2005, 7:48 pm
...but near the end when Harry and Hermione are trying to get through Snapes potion puzzle, Hermione points out that its a logic puzzle. She then deamed it very smart on Snapes part because most wizards are't very good at logic. So why is Snape different from "most wizards"? It would make sense if he was half-blood

Don't you need logic to play chess? Ron (a pure-blood) is pretty darn good at chess. But I'm not ruling out Snape as being the HBP, although I kinda doubt it.

BlackVelvet
February 25th, 2005, 8:20 pm
Ikuko,

By that logic, if a muggle husband abuses a muggle wife, she should just hit him back and not put up with that. There is more to the power over another person than just physical or magical prowess. Um pardon...but are you suggesting that an abused woman should just sit there and take it if she has the power to stop the abuse? Would you? I think in most cases women who let themselves be abused are either too scared to retaliate or so sure that no other man would want them to just leave. I know this is quite off topic but I'm rather disturbed by such comments. :huh:

BTW, nothing indicates that Snape Sr. was not indeed more powerfull than his wife. Yes, thanks I'm well aware of that. I believe I mentioned that everything I was suggesting was just speculation. There's certainly nothing to indicate the adverse either, that's why its called speculation because nothing is certain.

The family honour is apparently very valued among pure-blood families. I can easily imagine that a pure-blood wife would rather suffer abuse than "disgrace" the family. This I happen to agree with. Historically that can be said about many high born families, but it still doesn't prove anything either way.

And no, it is not possible that Snape was ever royal in any sense. It would be a well known fact, and we have heard a lot about his childhood and life. Really? Well you seem to have read different books from the ones I have because from what I've seen JKR has consistantly remained vague about Snape's past. "everyone should keep their eye on Snape, I'll just say that, because there's more to him than meets the eye...." That's a direct quote from an interview with her. She's planning on revealing much more about Snape than anyone has seen yet, that much is obvious. So unless you've gotten an advanced copy of HBP I daresay you may not know all the facts.

For one thing, when Fudge praizes Snape for the capture of Sirius in PoA and promises him Order of Merlin, he would have mentioned Snapes family if there was anything worth mentioning. Again you seem pretty sure of yourself considering this whole thread is centered around big guesses about something that hasn't even been written yet. As for this comment, its not impossible that if Snape has some royal blood in him his family may have hidden it. If his mother was a muggle, its possible (and I say possible because I don't pretend to know it all) that not many people in the wizarding world would know much about her. Plus the very fact that we don't know who the HBP is goes to show just how little we know about ANY of the people on the possible candidates list. If "prince" does indeed mean some kind of royalty then somebody has obviously been hiding it in plain sight! Either that or we haven't met them yet. All in all I would say you are being a bit too presumptuous.

--------------------------------------------------

What if it was the other way around. What if he father was the muggle and his mother was the witch. Maybe this could be why Snape loathes mud-bloods so much, because of how his father (a muggle) treated his mother ( a witch). It's Voldemort syndrome

Loona,this is a very well thought out point . It could be possible too. That is if you subscribe to the theory that Snape is really anti-mudblood. He very well may honestly be, and so far from what we've seen (ie. Lily incident, the fact that he's in Slytherin to begin with, etc.) it would appear to be so. I however am holding out that there is more to Professor Severus Snape than meets the eye, and that his whole nasty demeanor is just a front to avoid being detected as a spy for the Order. Again, its speculation but that's what we're here for right? :)

ikuko
February 25th, 2005, 8:54 pm
Ikuko,

Um pardon...but are you suggesting that an abused woman should just sit there and take it if she has the power to stop the abuse? Would you? I think in most cases women who let themselves be abused are either too scared to retaliate or so sure that no other man would want them to just leave. I know this is quite off topic but I'm rather disturbed by such comments. :huh:

Umm... That was uncalled for. I said that women DO take abuse though they are physically capable to hit back or complain to the authorities, and therefore, technically, DO have a power to stop abuse. I NEVER suggested that this is how they should act. You deliberately perverted my meaning. I suggest you take it back.

I think my point was perfectly clear. Just as muggle women take abuse out of fear or other consideration, even when they have means of stopping it, so could witches with their wizard husbands. Especially as we have no idea if any woman protection act is in place in magical community.

BlackVelvet
February 25th, 2005, 10:49 pm
Umm... That was uncalled for. I said that women DO take abuse though they are physically capable to hit back or complain to the authorities, and therefore, technically, DO have a power to stop abuse. I NEVER suggested that this is how they should act. You deliberately perverted my meaning. I suggest you take it back.

I didn't pervert your meaning, I asked for clarification. There is a subtle difference.

By that logic, if a muggle husband abuses a muggle wife, she should just hit him back and not put up with that
In the future, might I suggest that if you are going to attack someone else's logic, first make sure you understand it, then be prepared to defend your own.

ikuko
February 25th, 2005, 11:12 pm
I didn't pervert your meaning, I asked for clarification. There is a subtle difference.


In the future, might I suggest that if you are going to attack someone else's logic, first make sure you understand it, then be prepared to defend your own.
In the future, I suggest you read the rules of this forum. I did not "attack your logic". O offered a valid parallel:
Well, ladies out there, if you were a witch, would you let your husband treat you that way? I know I wouldn't, I'd zap the jerk, not cower in fear!
By that logic, if a muggle husband abuses a muggle wife, she should just hit him back and not put up with that
You twisted it as if I approved of female submission to a violence.
As to the topic: your arguments for a possibility of Snape's mother being a muggle were:
1. She could not defend herself from her hasbund verbal abuse.
2. Snape is too desperate in his hate of muggle-born.
My reply is:
#1. woman might not be able to protect herself from a wizard husband even if she is a witch, and as illustration I gave example of muggle families where comparable powers did not stop the abuse.
#2. Malfoys, admitted pure-bloods, are just as hatefull of muggle-biorns, so this argument does not stand either.

And, finally, the idea that the abusive husband might be a muggle, does not inspire any conviction at all. I can see a wizard husband abusing a witch wife, but never a witch abused by a muggle. The argument that a husband did not know (Like Riddle Sr.) is mute - we saw that Snape grew in a wizarding home, had a wand and attempted to fly a broom.

Please, try to keep the discussion at civilized tone. It is not only nice, it also a rule here.

BlackVelvet
February 26th, 2005, 2:20 am
In the future, I suggest you read the rules of this forum.

Perhaps you should take your own advice here. My initial post was full of nothing but my particular opinions and speculations on who the HBP might be.

You responded by shooting down every idea I had with an air of "No that is wrong.." instead of "Well you may have a point but I disagree..." To quote you directly

"This argument does not stand...", "And no, it is not possible that Snape was ever royal in any sense." Not exactly what I would call a civilized tone now is it?

Obviously not everyone will agree with one another and we ask that you respect the opinions of others even if you cannot agree. Attacking other members for holding views different to your own will not be tolerated and you will be warned. That is a direct quote from the rules, so perhaps you are the one who needs to re-read them.

Either way, since you can't seem to make a point without being rude I think I'll go to another thread and find some folks who can. I've already said my peace and given my opinion. I don't need to bandy crude words with someone who thinks she knows it all. Have fun! :rolleyes:

ikuko
February 26th, 2005, 2:46 am
LOL. There is nothing wrong with debating the arguments. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with all of them. This is what forums are all about. It is not against the rules. No one has to say that you have a point if one does not see it, it would be not true. I have never made a personal comment, while you have. This IS against the rules.

TigerSnake
February 26th, 2005, 3:56 am
Well, the past few posts have been interesting. :scared:

Don't want to get myself into anyone's hate list but here is what I think:

That and the fact that being rescued by a girl is any young man's worst nightmare.
This can be understandable, but I think Snape was acting like a little kid if this crossed his mind. He should be grateful someone actually stood up for him. I think Snape maybe said those nasty things to Lily becuase he has (or had) a parent who was a muggle, which he hated. Maybe it was his dad who was the muggle and he hated him for treating his mother badly (like someone already said). But maybe it was his mother who was a muggle and hated her for not standing up for herself. As I think about it, I really think one of the two scenarios is right because if he's a pure-blood, and he saw how bad his home situation was, do you think he would have such high respect for pure-bloods? When they treat each other so badly? So him being the HBP is possible, though I still think it's someone we haven't met yet.

And on the subject of Snape's parents:
Well, ladies out there, if you were a witch, would you let your husband treat you that way? I know I wouldn't, I'd zap the jerk, not cower in fear! My point is that maybe Snape's mother was a muggle herself.
Good point, but people have different circumstances, and maybe a witch may actually fear the muggle husband. Who knows? He might've hiden her wand and she couldn't do anything. And she couldn't use her son's wand because it's not hers and she wouldn't be able to yeild it. And I’m sorry to point out but it seems you’re implying muggle women can’t defend themselves if they're married to a wizard. :shrug: I believe muggle woman in that situation could do something, even if little.

...if a muggle husband abuses a muggle wife, she should just hit him back and not put up with that.
Again, very true. But while some muggle wives (and I bet witches too) have the will power to stand up to a man, unfortunately some ladies decide to put up with it. And some of the time it's for "the sake of the children" (although Snape saw this abuse, and she should've left but she must of had some reason to stay in that marriage). I agree women should stand up for themselves in such situations (seeing as I'm a woman too), but many of us (hopefully) have never been in that kind of situation to know what we would do.

By the way, all this is assuming that the man we saw (well, actually read) yelling at the woman are Snape's parents.

tonks442
February 26th, 2005, 6:39 am
I really think that the Half-Blood prince is going to be someone irrelevant, or dead. I don't think it will be any of the characters we really know in the books right now--I can't make myself to believe it will be Seamus or Snape for example. But I was thinking that it could be someone like Godric Gryffindor, even though he is dead, he can still impact the story much. But that's just my two cents. ;)

QueenMaebh
February 26th, 2005, 10:45 pm
Well, it seems like the conversation has gotten a bit sidetracked so I'll try to reiterate some of the things we DO know about the HBP from JKR.
1)he is in fact a half-blood
2)he is not Harry
3) he is not Voldemort

Back in August, I think, the hidden door on JKR's website opened to show an excerpt from HBP:
" (He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp."
I think that it is more than likely that the man described in this excerpt is the HBP.

My theories:
*Perhaps he is somehow related to Madame Hooch. "keen yellowish eyes" are not a very common trait, and she seems to be the only other character in Canon with that similarity.
*We know that Fudge will be removed as Minister in HBP, and that Hogwarts will need a new DADA teacher. The most likely placement for a person of royalty would be in the ministry. However, I think that whenever JKR was asked if Arthur Weasley would be MoM, she said something to the effect of 'unfortunately no.' Which leads me to worry that the new MoM isn't someone that the fans or JKR herself will be very pleased with, so perhaps the HBP, will not be MoM.

feel free to tear these apart as you will, as long as you do so nicely :)

DivaVeela
February 26th, 2005, 11:34 pm
I'm not satisfied with the rumour that JKR refuted the possibility of Hagrid being the HPB.

Maybe what she said was "he's not royal blood", which we know to be true. However we do know from our previous visit to the Giants that their kings are decided via battle, NOT succession. Therefore, should Grawp win a battle and become king, then that would make Hagrid the Prince, being his brother, wouldn't it?

Hagrid's overall significance to Harry is already well established and he would certainly qualify to have a book named after him. Certainly it has been reported that Grawp would be playing a more important role in the next book(s), (as Giant King, maybe?) and that this time he would be more controlable, so does it make sense?

ComicBookWorm
February 27th, 2005, 12:52 am
Hagrid is a half-breed, not a half-blood.

Saf
February 27th, 2005, 6:22 am
Forgive me, but is the term "Half-Breed" used by anyone other than Umbridge, or somebody referring to Umbridge? My copy of OOTP is currently unavailable.

Dusty
February 27th, 2005, 6:28 am
Would Lord Voldermort's son be half blood?

Before sending howlers, think about this...

Why would Voldermort go out of his way to ensure Bellatrix escaped? That I am aware of, she is the only female death eater. Yes she is maried, but like you know who would care. As a "female warrior" (meaning of her name in latin) she would do anything to prove her loyalty and help gain an insider at Hogwarts. It would be possible if Voldermort used some type of time travel, which has featured as timeturners and that hourglass thingy. And Dumbledore would accept him at the school, since he obviously doesn't believe in judging people before they choose thier path, or there would be no more Sytherine students.

Neither "parent" would view the child as anything more than a strategy, and their would be no love between the parents. Jo says Voldermort is not capable of love, but he would use anyone to his advantage, and live through his child. The Child would be considered a "Prince" of evil, given V's power and Bella's bloodline. He and his parents would also be the exact opposite of Harry, Lily and James.

We also know that Tom Riddle is half muggle. If Jo is using a similar thoery as what was used by some Governments in times past, (and I've got to admit I need to verify this) a person is half blood if one parent is muggle/ indiginous. There is also such a thing as quarter bloods, 1/8 bloods etc, as the generations go on. But Pure bloods like Bellla and Muggle haters would always see a bloodline "tainted", even if it is second generation, and both parents are wizards.

Lastly, if muggles have invented IVF, would a comparitable spell/charm/tool exist in the wizarding world?

ComicBookWorm
February 27th, 2005, 8:30 am
Forgive me, but is the term "Half-Breed" used by anyone other than Umbridge, or somebody referring to Umbridge? My copy of OOTP is currently unavailable.What's important here is the definition that JKR put up on her website defining a half-blood. It did not include human/non-human mixes. It soley described human/muggle mixes.

Would Lord Voldermort's son be half blood?
JKR said that Voldemort had no children.

Below are the half-breed quotes I found. There may be one or two I missed somehow.

From GoF:Malfoy was gloating at every possible opportunity. "Missing your half-breed pal?" he kept whispering to Harry whenever there was a teacher around, so that he was safe from Harry's retaliation.From OotP: "Filth! Scum! By-products of dirt and vileness! Half-breeds, mutants, freaks, begone from this place! How dare you befoul the house of my fathers -"

"Stains, of dishonour, filthy half-breeds, blood traitors, children of filth"

"- FILTHY HALF-BREEDS, BESMIRCHING THE HOUSE OF MY FATHERS -?From OotP: Professor Umbridge talked over him. "I do not wish to criticise the way things have been run in this school," she said, an unconvincing smile stretching her wide mouth, "but you have been exposed to some very irresponsible wizards in this class, very irresponsible indeed - not to mention," she gave a nasty little laugh, "extremely dangerous half-breeds.""Does Lupin know her?" asked Harry quickly, remembering Umbridge's comments about dangerous half-breeds during her first lesson."So, what are Umbridge's lessons like?" Sirius interrupted. "Is she training you all to kill half-breeds?""That foul, lying, twisting old gargoyle!" stormed Hermione half an hour later, as they made their way back up to the castle through the channels they had made earlier in the snow. "You see what she's up to? It's her thing about half-breeds all over again - she's trying to make out Hagrid's some kind of dimwitted troll, just because he had a giantess for a mother - and oh, it's not fair, that really wasn't a bad lesson at all - I mean, all right, if it had been Blast-Ended Skrewts again, but Thestrals are fine - in fact, for Hagrid, they're really good!?""Clearly, it was very important for you to talk to somebody. Was it Albus Dumbledore? Or the half-breed, Hagrid? I doubt it was Minerva McGonagall, I hear she is still too ill to talk to anyone."

"Yes," said Umbridge, whose excitement seemed to be mounting. "Yes, he would have done, of course, the great half-breed oaf."

"That's right!" said Umbridge, in an even higher voice, "so be very careful! By the laws laid down by the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, any attack by half-breeds such as yourselves on a human -"

"Filthy half-breeds!" she screamed, her hands still tight over her head. "Beasts! Uncontrolled animals!"We do have Umbridge using the term incorrectly for werewolves and Centaurs, since werewolves are humans (not always wizards) who have a magical medical ailment, and Centaurs are a separate species of magical being. And it is mostly bigots using the term.

But even when Harry, Hermione, and Sirius use the term in response to some bigoted statement, they never say half-blood. At best they say something like half-giant or part-human like in the following quotes. However they never use half-blood. Not even Hagrid uses half-blood. The following are from GoF: Harry could have told Hagrid it was best not to answer; he stood there in the shadows gritting his teeth, hoping against hope he wouldn't - but it was no good. "Another half-giant, o' course!" said Hagrid.""'Ow dare you!" shrieked Madame Maxime. Her voice exploded through the peaceful night air like a foghorn; behind him. Harry heard Fleur and Roger fall out of their rosebush. "I 'ave nevair been more insulted in my life! 'Alf-giant? Moi? I 'ave - I 'ave big bones!" She stormed away; great multicolored swarms of fairies rose into the air as she passed Ron looked around at Harry, his expression very serious indeed."Did you know?" he whispered. "About Hagrid being half-giant?""I don't know who Maxime thinks she's kidding," Harry said, watching Madame Maxime sitting alone at the judges' table, looking very somber. "If Hagrid's half-giant, she definitely is. Big bones . .. the only thing that's got bigger bones than her is a dinosaur."Hermione didn't seem to find the news that Hagrid was a half-giant nearly as shocking as Ron did. "Well, I thought he must be," she said, shrugging. "I knew he couldn't be pure giant because they're about twenty feet tall. "Well, I think this should put an end to the oaf's teaching career," said Malfoy, his eyes glinting. "Half-giant. . . "What's he avoiding us for?" Hermione said when they had finally given up and were walking back to the school. "He surely doesn't think we'd care about him being half-giant?""Who cares if he's half-giant?" Harry shouted. "There's nothing wrong with him!""Yeh - yeh're not half-giant!" said Hagrid croakily.

And the following from OotP:"Among those eccentric decisions are undoubtedly the controversial staff appointments previously described in this newspaper, which have included the employment of werewolf Remus Lupin, half-giant Rubeus Hagrid and delusional ex-Auror, 'Mad-Eye' Moody."'What's she got against werewolves?" said Hermione angrily.

"Scared of them, I expect," said Sirius, smiling at her indignation. "Apparently she loathes part-humans; she campaigned to have merpeople rounded up and tagged last year, too. Imagine wasting your time and energy persecuting merpeople when there are little toerags like Kreacher on the loose.""You mark my words, she's going to want revenge on Dumbledore for appointing a new teacher without consulting her," said Hermione, closing the newspaper. "Especially another part-human."Half-blood is never used to describe Hagrid. Only half-giant or half-breed. Part-human is also used to describe other magical beings. Half-blood is used consistently to describe wizards with a muggle heritage.

So we have the politically correct words of half-giant and part-human, and the politically incorrect word of half-breed. But half-blood is never used.

DivaVeela
February 27th, 2005, 2:52 pm
Well argued, Comicbook Worm.

I cannot immediately think of any JKR reference to Hagrid as "half-blood", rather half- giant, etc., as you have so convincingly argued. However, dictionary-wise, he could still be considered half giant blood and half human blood. So I still think my theory remains plausible.

Also, consider that he is also Grawp's HALF brother and in that respect, if Grawp became King, would only be possessed of HALF royal blood from the Giant's perspective.

But, sadly, I thought of an argument that supports your view ... I think there was some debate about the addition of the hypen to "Half-Blood". Originally the title did not contain a hyphen. The fact that it now does suggests a clearer meaning of the term "half-blood" as opposed to the term "half-breed". Maybe that will be made clearer in HBP.

Zorro
February 27th, 2005, 3:15 pm
I'm going to keep this short, 'vause I don't want to landed on a hate list either. :wow:

Snape can't be the half blood prince because he is a pure blood. We can surmise this because he was a death eater and he is in Slytherin. I think I read that JKR confirmed this somewhere, but that could just be far too many posts merging into my ailing memory.

esevre
February 27th, 2005, 6:50 pm
I think that the Half Blood prince might be a character from the past. Why did Slytherin and Gryffindor part ways? The sorting hat said that they used to be friends, then they split ways. What might have prompted them to split ways? Why did Salazar start to hate half-bloods? Could it be related to the HBP? Perhaps Riddle grew up in an orphanage hating muggles, than he goes off to school and learns that he is really the heir of Slytherin. While he learns more about his heritage he also learns about a HBP that did something horrible to Salazar and his hatred of half-bloods is pushed over the top.

Of course is there is any truth in a story like this Harry (and the reader) won’t find out all at once. Harry will over hear something like “The HBP is the key to Voldemort’s weekness.” Then Harry will have to go and figure out the back story about this HBP and the reader will find out who the Prince is halfway through, and how he is important near the end.

Of course everything could be wrong, but this would be able to fit nicely into CoS story since CoS is the only story to really focus on the history of Hogwarts.

TigerSnake
February 27th, 2005, 7:06 pm
I think that the Half Blood prince might be a character from the past.
I totally agree. It'll be like in SS/PS where Harry and his friends try finding out about the Stone and the person who made it.

Allemande
February 27th, 2005, 7:41 pm
I'm going to keep this short, 'vause I don't want to landed on a hate list either. :wow:

Snape can't be the half blood prince because he is a pure blood. We can surmise this because he was a death eater and he is in Slytherin. I think I read that JKR confirmed this somewhere, but that could just be far too many posts merging into my ailing memory.

but as far as I can tell, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, JK does not ever confirm that he is a pureblood, only that he is NOT a muggleborn:

Snape’s ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there.
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80
Also, Tom Riddle is a half-blood, and he's in Slytherin, and the Sorting Hat was considering putting Harry in Slytherin, even though he too is a half-blood. So obviously, if Snape is a half-blood, he had enough of the qualities Slytherin looked for to sort of forgive the fact that he is (potentially) a half-blood.
Death Eaters do not all have to be pure bloods: see the quote I posted above for that reference
Whether Snape is the HBP or not, there is obviously some reason why JK will not confirm whether he is a half or pure-blood

ComicBookWorm
February 28th, 2005, 1:57 am
This is JKR's description of half-blood from her website, so regardless of any dictionary interpretation, we need to use JKR's defintion.

Why are some people in the wizarding world (e.g., Harry) called 'half-blood' even though both their parents were magical?
The expressions 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators' prejudices. As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. Therefore Harry would be considered only 'half' wizard, because of his mother's grandparents.

If you think this is far-fetched, look at some of the real charts the Nazis used to show what constituted 'Aryan' or 'Jewish' blood. I saw one in the Holocaust Museum in Washington when I had already devised the 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' definitions, and was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters. A single Jewish grandparent 'polluted' the blood, according to their propaganda.She put this content on her website to help us understand how she defines the term half-blood. Also in the books all references toward half-bloods are reserved for wizard/muggle mixes.

Jessica
February 28th, 2005, 6:56 pm
PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS![

triwizard champ
March 1st, 2005, 12:50 am
I just thought of something interesting for snape. Maybe he was involved in helping create some of Voldemorts immortality. Hes a potions genius. Maybe he knows how to help harry.

TigerSnake
March 1st, 2005, 2:37 am
I think that by the time Snape joined Volemort's ranks, Volemort had already done everything he could do to ensure immortality.

winky22
March 1st, 2005, 6:33 pm
right this therory is a bit far fetched but does any one no if harry as a middle name? half blood prince, hbp take out the b what av u got hp, ie harry potter. it mite have no meaning at all but it does go spinning around in my head. maybe the hbp is related to harry in another way. lot of theorys point to godric gryffindor and in a way maybe harry is related to him. when harry got the sword out of the sorting hat DD mentions that only a true gryffindor cud have got that. did he mean true to is house or that he is related to him and DD knows that.

also does n e 1 no wat house lily was in? we all no that james was in g but wat bout lily?

also in the little snipit from jk disribing that person who we don't no who is yet says he wore wired rimmed glasses just another thing to think about.

Machiavelli
March 1st, 2005, 6:54 pm
right this therory is a bit far fetched but does any one no if harry as a middle name?
Harry's middle name is James - after his father.

edit: Sorry, took me a minute to nail down a source for that but here it is. (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2001/1101-torontostar.htm)

The relevent part is:

QUESTION: Why did you choose the name Harry Potter? Did you base the character on someone you know? And, finally, has Harry got a middle name and if so, what is it?

ROWLING: Harry is completely imaginary. I took his surname from a family I lived near when I was a child, just because I liked the sound of Potter; and `Harry' has always been one of my favourite Christian names. Finally, he has most definitely got a middle name. It's James.

FirefightingMuggle
March 1st, 2005, 7:13 pm
I really like the idea that the HBP may not be alive at all, that he may be someone from the past. I read CBW's argument for Godric Gryffindor, and I agree that Gryffindor is a strong possibility.
I think that the founders of the school will prove to be important. They are mentioned in someway or another in each of the books (I belive). The Sorting Hat's song always includes something about the founders. We find out more and more about them from that Hat each year. CoS gives us quite a bit about Sal Slytherin, but it also gives us the Sword of Gryffindor.
History plays a role in each of the books. The Students take History of Magic as a class. On a more personal level, Harry searches to learn of his own history. He picks up a little bit in each of the books, learning about his parents a bit at a time.
We need to understand history, we need to understand the past, and how those two things can strongly affect the present.
Introducing the HBP as a character from the past would prove to be interesting for Harry. It would be interesting to see how the past would impact Harry in the present.

Edit: Mach, I appear to be following you around today...I don't mean to, but seeing as the places I usually post in are sort of slow, I'm having to occupy myself in other ways. I really don't mean to follow you....

winky22
March 1st, 2005, 7:40 pm
Harry's middle name is James - after his father.

edit: Sorry, took me a minute to nail down a source for that but here it is. (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2001/1101-torontostar.htm)

The relevent part is:

QUESTION: Why did you choose the name Harry Potter? Did you base the character on someone you know? And, finally, has Harry got a middle name and if so, what is it?

ROWLING: Harry is completely imaginary. I took his surname from a family I lived near when I was a child, just because I liked the sound of Potter; and `Harry' has always been one of my favourite Christian names. Finally, he has most definitely got a middle name. It's James.

corz it is. wat a fool i am. sori x

Machiavelli
March 1st, 2005, 7:55 pm
corz it is. wat a fool i am. sori xHey no trouble! Just keep coming up with new ideas - we need them!

BTW, gentle hint - there are many people on the boards who don't speak english as a first language and so forum policy is to discourage chat-speak. It will make it a lot easier for other people to understand you if you use standard English! - M

Edit: Mach, I appear to be following you around today...I don't mean to, but seeing as the places I usually post in are sort of slow, I'm having to occupy myself in other ways. I really don't mean to follow you....S'okay! Maybe I'm actually stalking you!

I also like the Godric idea pretty well... I just don't quite see how a prince will fit into the wizard world as presented thus far. Of course the other option is foreign... how about a cousin to Parvati!

Saf
March 1st, 2005, 8:37 pm
So we have the politically correct words of half-giant and part-human, and the politically incorrect word of half-breed.
That was actually the point I was driving at, whether it was PC. But... wow. Well argued.

I'm still unsure, though. If you leave aside the part-giant issue for the moment, isn't Hagrid still a half-blood? One parent with wizard blood, the other without...

Katze
March 1st, 2005, 8:43 pm
I really like the idea that the HBP may not be alive at all, that he may be someone from the past. I read CBW's argument for Godric Gryffindor, and I agree that Gryffindor is a strong possibility.
I think that the founders of the school will prove to be important. They are mentioned in someway or another in each of the books (I belive). The Sorting Hat's song always includes something about the founders. We find out more and more about them from that Hat each year. CoS gives us quite a bit about Sal Slytherin, but it also gives us the Sword of Gryffindor.
History plays a role in each of the books. The Students take History of Magic as a class. On a more personal level, Harry searches to learn of his own history. He picks up a little bit in each of the books, learning about his parents a bit at a time.
We need to understand history, we need to understand the past, and how those two things can strongly affect the present.
Introducing the HBP as a character from the past would prove to be interesting for Harry. It would be interesting to see how the past would impact Harry in the present.

I like the idea of Godric Gryffindor being the Prince.

Maybe there's still a pensieve around that belonged to Gryffindor? Or perhaps an old portrait.

winky22
March 1st, 2005, 8:52 pm
i have theory that lily was in slytherin. i know she was not of wizard family but what if? who to say that all s are pure blood. isn't it there own choices of what house they will be in? has the sorting hat ever put a witch/wizard in a house they did'nt want to be in?

what can the fact be that harry as got lily's green eyes mean. green is the colour of slythertin but she also had red hair and thats the colour of gryfindor.

i don't know my brain is exploading!

lilly_potter
March 1st, 2005, 8:56 pm
Here's what I'm thinking:

Seeing as how the whole series is about him, the HBP would have to have a direct impact on Harry somehow. I don't see how Godric Gryffindor could be the HBP, considering the only connection Harry has to Godric (that we know of) is that Harry is a member of Gryffindor house. But it is an interesting theory.
As far as the new MoM, I'm glad to see it won't be Arthur Weasley. That would have been to obvious. I was thinking it could be Lucius Malfoy, his antics in OotP got him sent to Azkaban. But it is an easy guess considering he's got the whole ministry in his back pocket.
Also, the Lily theory is a good one. It was never mentioned, (at least I don't remember) what house Lily was in. But then again I don't think the HBP house would have anything to do with it.

Any other suggestions?

Katze
March 1st, 2005, 9:00 pm
Here's what I'm thinking:

Seeing as how the whole series is about him, the HBP would have to have a direct impact on Harry somehow. I don't see how Godric Gryffindor could be the HBP, considering the only connection Harry has to Godric (that we know of) is that Harry is a member of Gryffindor house. But it is an interesting theory.
As far as the new MoM, I'm glad to see it won't be Arthur Weasley. That would have been to obvious. I was thinking it could be Lucius Malfoy, his antics in OotP got him sent to Azkaban. But it is an easy guess considering he's got the whole ministry in his back pocket.
Also, the Lily theory is a good one. It was never mentioned, (at least I don't remember) what house Lily was in. But then again I don't think the HBP house would have anything to do with it.

Any other suggestions?


Lily was definitely in Gryffindor. Rowling answered this in one of her interviews.

Here's Lily's profile (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/lily.html).

FirefightingMuggle
March 1st, 2005, 9:38 pm
Here's what I'm thinking:

Seeing as how the whole series is about him, the HBP would have to have a direct impact on Harry somehow. I don't see how Godric Gryffindor could be the HBP, considering the only connection Harry has to Godric (that we know of) is that Harry is a member of Gryffindor house. But it is an interesting theory.


Actually, history can have quite an impact on the present. Take a look at our own world, look at some of the world conflicts, some of them are deeply rooted in history. That history has an effect on our world today.
The same can be true in the Wizarding World. Look at the legacy of Salazar Slytherin. He was the one who, to the best of our knowledge, started all of this stuff with pure bloods. Those feelings remian in the Wizarding World to this day.
If there was something the Godric Gryffindor did, some idea, some action, it stands to reason that it could impact Harry in the present.
If Slytherin can influence people in the present, it would only make sense that Gryffindor could do the same.

Jessica
March 1st, 2005, 10:36 pm
Well in addition to being a girl Lily is a muggle born and not a half blood.

I think it's not only possible but likely that Gryffindor is the prince. (my opinion only). But if you think about is Slytherin was central to the plot of CoS without once physically appearing. I see no reason why Gryffindor could not also be central to a book and either not appear or appear via a pensieve, diary or some other means. :)




PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?
5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947) .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Pure Blood per OotP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1369917&postcount=826)
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story was sacrificed for Neville's per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1240759&postcount=1236) (more on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80))
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1664183&postcount=181)
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1095399&postcount=270); very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1100323&postcount=312)
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1096482&postcount=291) (although not necessarily - some princes never become king), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1318017&postcount=306) ; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1214488&postcount=1026)

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1206050&postcount=962)
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1279603&postcount=43); JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1133877&postcount=649); according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1134528&postcount=651)

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed), More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1442788&postcount=1140)
Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1079669&postcount=14); the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1402375&postcount=978)
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.p...&postcount=1056); JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1277816&postcount=36) (more on this here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280018&postcount=50) and here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1280708&postcount=80)), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros: Nagisa's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1275466&postcount=1492), Connections to Historical Kings (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1403894&postcount=982) More (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1404574#post1404574)
Cons: Seems unlikely that JKR would have used him in CoS, seems planned for PoA; JKR has made no mention of a big connection to book 3 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244254&postcount=1263); per JKR: "I was looking forward to writing the third book from the start of the first because that's when Professor Lupin appears, and he is one of my favorite characters in all seven books" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285436&postcount=92)

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1219320&postcount=1075)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1336046&postcount=416)
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149677&postcount=732); choices are important according to DD/JKR - could Snape have chosen Slytherin like Harry chose Gryffindor? (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1152110&postcount=742) (evidence that the Sorting Hat may be following it's own agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1153924&postcount=757))
Cons: he most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin (TR was only sorted into Slytherin because he is the last heir) (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1149466&postcount=729), and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood" (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1198443&postcount=925)


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol: (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1323570&postcount=354) ; More (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1343796&postcount=499)
Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
may not be literal, but a nickname (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1083917&postcount=122)

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.

JKR"S PARTIAL LIST OF HOUSES/PARENTAGE (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1392070&postcount=947)

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)

(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)
EXTRA CREDIT GOES TO mel (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=8506) FOR FINDING ALL THE LINKS!

hermionecharm
March 1st, 2005, 10:41 pm
I think that Grodric Gryfindor is the Half blood prince, on JKR's website she discripted the HBP to look like that of a lion: a lion is the symbol for Gryfindor I but that might be too obvious, it could be Hedwig, for all we know...

Machiavelli
March 1st, 2005, 10:42 pm
I think that Grodric Gryfindor is the Half blood prince, on JKR's website she discripted the HBP to look like that of a lion: a lion is the symbol for Gryfindor I but that might be too obvious, it could be Hedwig, for all we know...
Sorry to be pedantic, but we don't actually know who was described do we? It might not be the HBP but the new DADA teacher... or some other new character.

hermionecharm
March 1st, 2005, 10:47 pm
Sorry to be pedantic, but we don't actually know who was described do we? It might not be the HBP but the new DADA teacher... or some other new character.

Your right, (I hate it when people are right :evil: ) I should Have thought that through..., I still think it's GG, though

ComicBookWorm
March 1st, 2005, 11:05 pm
That was actually the point I was driving at, whether it was PC. But... wow. Well argued.

I'm still unsure, though. If you leave aside the part-giant issue for the moment, isn't Hagrid still a half-blood? One parent with wizard blood, the other without...
Well since they never use the term half-blood for him and use the other terms of half-giant, part-human, and half-breed, and JKR hasn't included part-humans like Hagrid in her definition on her website, it doesn't seem very likely at all. That was the point I was making. All existing information doesn't include Hagrid in the definition of half-blood, while all the existing informations points to calling him half-breed, part-human, and part-giant.

People who are part wizard and something non-human are not called half-bloods, only people who are part wizard and part muggle are called half-bloods.

GilyAnn
March 3rd, 2005, 12:21 am
Ok I read this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1910664&postcount=169) post but I still have some questions:

I hope it's ok to ask about it:

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, Connection to Richard the Lion hearted
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS (more on this here and here), Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

I read ComicBookWorm argument but what I still don't get is that if GG is the HBP wouldn't that make Harry automatically the HBP(assuming that he is the heir of Gryffindor) since GG is dead?

If GG would be the HBP what possible help, contribution or complication can he bring into the story? How can we even know about him if he's dead? How will it be discover that GG is the HBP?

I hope nobody thinks that I'm being annoying is just that this GG being the HBP just has so many questions on the negative side that I don't think it's possible but I like to be convinced of otherwise.

Gily Ann

Jessica
March 3rd, 2005, 1:37 am
Ok I read this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1910664&postcount=169) post but I still have some questions:

I hope it's ok to ask about it:



I read ComicBookWorm argument but what I still don't get is that if GG is the HBP wouldn't that make Harry automatically the HBP(assuming that he is the heir of Gryffindor) since GG is dead?

If GG would be the HBP what possible help, contribution or complication can he bring into the story? How can we even know about him if he's dead? How will it be discover that GG is the HBP?

I hope nobody thinks that I'm being annoying is just that this GG being the HBP just has so many questions on the negative side that I don't think it's possible but I like to be convinced of otherwise.

Gily Ann


I agree with you completely that IF GG is the HBP AND Harry is his heir then Harry should also be a prince.

However, if Harry is not his heir than it is still possible for GG to be the prince and Harry not to be a prince which is my personal opinion.

I'll let CBW argue her own idea though :)

IMAWIZARD
March 3rd, 2005, 5:02 am
Generally, a prince is a leader so if it was a nickname then maybe it would suit the next minister of magic or quiddich captain or even the next dada teacher because even he/she will be the leader of his/her subject within the school. As a nickname it suits many characters.

ComicBookWorm
March 3rd, 2005, 5:08 am
I agree with you completely that IF GG is the HBP AND Harry is his heir then Harry should also be a prince.

However, if Harry is not his heir than it is still possible for GG to be the prince and Harry not to be a prince which is my personal opinion.

I'll let CBW argue her own idea though :)
The lines of royal inheritance have shifted significantly several times over the last 1000 years so any family with a royal title that long ago does not still have that title. GG could have been disinherited at the time because he was magical, and since this was before the Norman invasion none of the royal families were permitted to retain those titles anyway.

ikuko
March 3rd, 2005, 5:28 am
The lines of royal inheritance have shifted significantly several times over the last 1000 years so any family with a royal title that long ago does not still have that title. GG could have been disinherited at the time because he was magical, and since this was before the Norman invasion none of the royal families were permitted to retain those titles anyway.
In this case he would not be a prince anymore, would he?

ComicBookWorm
March 3rd, 2005, 5:36 am
In this case he would not be a prince anymore, would he?Well he was a prince at one point. And most likely people would have still called him prince even if he lost his title (people are usually called by their title long after it no longer applies). Not only that, but if the reason is that the lines of inheritance changed over the 1000 intervening years since then, he would have been a prince all his life.

Judges are still called judge after they left the office. People are called general after they retire, and senators are called senator after they are voted out of office. A disinherited prince would most likely still be called prince.

ikuko
March 3rd, 2005, 5:39 am
Not if he was disinherited, as you suggested. And what would it matter NOW? He was not called a prince ever before, if he lost all the actual power a 1000 years ago, why start now?

ComicBookWorm
March 3rd, 2005, 5:43 am
Not if he was disinherited, as you suggested. And what would it matter NOW? He was not called a prince ever before, if he lost all the actual power a 1000 years ago, why start now?
It's just what he was called. It has no relevance now. The story will be about him, the royal title is just another way of describing him. What's important about Gryffindor is the conflict with Slytherin. Gryffindor's title would have been something of interest in his background.

teo
March 3rd, 2005, 5:50 am
Godric Gryffindor makes quite a lot of sense to me, regardless of the significance or insignificance of the fact that he'd have been a prince 1000 years ago. Harry discovers in CoS that he's a "true Gryffindor", which can be interpreted in more than one way. JKR has gone out of her way to tell us about the Hogwarts founders...they've already been used for the CoS plot, why not again in the supposedly "related-in-some-way" book six? The character of Gryffindor could be important, and she could just be using "Half-Blood Prince" not because the "Princeliness" of the character is overly important, but instead because it wouldn't be much fun to name the book "Harry Potter and Godric Gryffindor".

FirefightingMuggle
March 3rd, 2005, 5:52 am
It's just what he was called. It has no relevance now. The story will be about him, the royal title is just another way of describing him. What's important about Gryffindor is the conflict with Slytherin. Gryffindor's title would have been something of interest in his background.

I agree with you CBW. The other important thing here is that the beliefs of Slytherin are still alive and well in the present day. That ancient conflict between Slytherin and Gryffindor is still pertanant in the modern wizarding world. It still has an impact on Harry. And, I really think that in the end, Harry is really what it is all about.

ikuko
March 3rd, 2005, 6:06 am
It's just what he was called. It has no relevance now. The story will be about him, the royal title is just another way of describing him. What's important about Gryffindor is the conflict with Slytherin. Gryffindor's title would have been something of interest in his background.
But the thing is: it is NOT how he is called. GG was rutinely called just by name so far, and by people who have no reason to omitt his title if he had any. In UK title is a serious thing, it is Sir Conan Doyle, and no other way. See my logic? If GG HAD a title and lost it, the only people who would still call him by it would be his well, "friends" (if a dead person can have friends). The people opposing his ideas would likely hold onto the loss of the title as an excuse not to consider him a prince. However, it was DD and GG's OWN HAT that omitted the title with ease. And you are saying that suddenly people will start calling GG a "prince"? Why? And that it will be so prominent that it will get into the book's title? even though GG lost all possible power assiciated with the title yet during his life? Impossible. There can be no reason for that.

ComicBookWorm
March 3rd, 2005, 6:09 am
No, I'm just saying that at one point he was a called a prince. If someone is retelling his lifestory they will mention it. For all we know he didn't like the title either, but wizards may have referred to him as the HBP because of his royal heritage.

ikuko
March 3rd, 2005, 6:21 am
The Hat was telling his story and did not mention a title, and it was bound to, who is closer to a guy than his own magical hat? DD was telling his story and did not mention any titles. Professor Binn was telling his story, and as an old-fashiones teacher of HISTORY he was bound to mention his title, especially since he was talking about issues of the blood. And yet - he didn't. So, who can it possibly be that will talk about GG, call him all of a sudden a prince - and why would it be important to Harry? There is such thing as inertia. If you know a person by one name, it is hard to get used to another. Think of the maiden names of your old friends. The books are told from Harry's point of view. Harry knows of GG as simply GG for years. Why would "prince" make a title just because some oddball calls GG a "prince"? It must be an oddball, because so far no one did this.