Homorphus Charm: A Permanent Cure for Lupin?

In CoS Prof. Lockhart says he cured a werewolf with the
"complex Homorphus Charm". Why hasn't Dd or someone
done this for Prof. Lupin?

Obviously, Lockhart is an idiot and he didn't really
perform the charm himself, but when he is making
his confession to Harry and Ron he again states
that it was done, albeit, by someone else, so it
must exist.

Maybe it wasn't exactly a cure for werewolfry. I doubt there is one. It could be a spell that forces somebody to change back into their human shape, like the spell they cast on 'Scabbers'. I don't know what could have happened to the werewolf after that. In that instant a werewolf could be captured, knocked out or killed.

O.K. reasonable probability. I got the impression he was cured
but I can't quote the reason why right now. I also like the
word werewolfry and intend to find many reasons to use it.

Werewolfy! It is fun to say spelled werewolfie as well.

I never even noticed that. I aways forget the name of Lockhart's books though.
If it was possible Dumbledore probably would have fixed it in his first year though.
Lockhart never does anything right. Except his hair.

Don't you hate men that are prettier than you are?

But, seriously, it sounded like a spell that would work.
Maybe J.K. needs him to remain a werewolf for some
reason.

^Probably something to do with the silver hand Volde gave to wormtail.

He's supposed to be important in book 7. Probably gets injured/killed.

No don't say Lupin gets killed! Why bring him back only to die?
That is cruel.

Silly JK inventing cures and then not using them. :)

The silver hand idea sounds pretty reasonable. I didn't think
of it.

No don't say Lupin gets killed! Why bring him back only to die? That is cruel.
True. I hope he has a good role in 6 as well as 5 & 7, so if he dies it won't be so much of a he's-back-again-and-now-he's-dead. :(

I assume that the "complex Homorphus Charm" that he speaks of in that book (Wagga Wagga Werewolf?) simply forced the werewolf back into their human form. What we learn in PoA certainly makes one believe that there's no real cure for werewolfry.

"Nice loud howl, Harry - exactly - and then, if you'll believe it, I pounced - like this - slammed him to the floor - thus with one hand, I managed to hold him down - with my other, I put my wand to his throat -I then screwed up my remaining strength and performed the immensely complex Homorphus Charm - he let out a piteous moan - go on, Harry - higher than that - good - the fur vanished - the fangs shrank - and he turned back into a man. Simple, yet effective - and another village will remember me forever as the hero who delivered them from the monthly terror of werewolf attacks."
"As the hero who delivered them from the montly terror of werewolf attacks" sounds rather permanent, though.

I hate the idea of Wormtail hurting (or killing) Lupin, but I love the silver hand theory.

Lockhart probably made it up. The pixie charm he uses doesn't work at all, so he's not that realiable.
I read somewhere that silver is deadly to werewolfs, so I agree that wormtail's hand will play a part.

What about the evil twin aspect? You know, Remus and Romolus? Do you think Remus has an evil twin brother that will kill him for his own pride?
(OK, really out there, but stranger things have happened.)

(Post 100! Yeah!:D )

Hey now don't insult us twins. We're not all evil.

If wormtail kills Lupin with is creepy silver hand (which is probably why he got it *sniffles*) then I think we can toss out the wormtail gets redeemed theory.

I don't think Lockhart made it up. He says other people did
these things and he took credit for them.

I love twins. Especially Fuchsia. Think of how much less
funny the books would be without Fred or George.

No evil twin there. I won't have it.

Awww thanks. Twins make everything fun!
Double your pleasure double your fun (after all the times people have made pervy comments to me using that line I shouldn't have said that).

About Lockhart taking credit....Are wizards really shallow about looks like muggles where they wouldn't care about someone banishing a banshee if they had a harelip?
Dumbledore might be more respected if he didn't look so "weird".
Looks sure did carry Lockhart (and Bagman even) pretty far.

I never noticed that. It seems such an obvious fact of
life. Good point.

They must be or someone would have stumbled on to the
fact that G. Lockhart couldn't cure a picnic of ants.

Yeah. Round of applause. I just made third year.

Wizards wouldn't be immune to attraction and all of that so
of course they'll think more highly of people who are gorgeous.
Lockhart's funeral would be bigger than Lupins.

Narcissa is less attractive because of her bad additude.
I like how Rowling put that in.
And how Harry and Ron who don't look any better than each other still get different girls because one is famous and the other is not.
HP is so realistic.

But back to topic....
Did Peter secretly resent Lupin all of this time?
Why would he want to kill him?
Just to please Voldemort or for any reasons of his own?

woohoo you're third year! I made fifth year last night.

Well done,indeed, Fuchsia. That has become my
favorite understatement every since I heard the
Quiddich fans cheering Gryffindor:

"Well done, Gryffindor" That just kills me. I laugh
every time. How beautifully, wonderfully English.

Yeah in America they would hoist Harry onto their shoulders and McGonagall might cry out "Great job kids! I'm taking you to a pizza party!" Haha.

It's just that our high school cheers are so much meaner.

If they are not meaner they are braggy.

There is school on an island off of Washington State that
is full of very wealthy high school kids. (I guess technically
their parents are wealthy but still........) One of their
favorite cheers when they are losing is:


"That's allright. That's O.K.
Your going to work for us someday."

Man that is evil!!
If Draco and Snape were girls they'd be chanting that too.

You know, now that you mention it, I can just see
nasty ole Draco doing that cheer. Can't you see how
mad the Weasleys would be. (Of course, rightly angry)

The resulting fight might just be worth the trouble they
would be in.

Draco wouldn't even get points taken off but the Weasleys would.
I am only sorry they can't use the paper or plastic line that is such a classic.
Or 'You'll be serving my kids fries on our way to a skiing trip.'

I love it! But now you have to tell me the paper or plastic
line.

The line is just "You'll be saying paper or plastic?" implying they'll
get lowpaying jobs in a grocery store or something.
It is used in a lot early '80s teen films.

Sorry, not all that great a film fan. Just HP and a few others.

Sorry! i was SO not implying that there is always an evil twin! (There's not with Luke and Leia, and I'm sure there is not wih you Fuchsia!)

Ok anyways, Fuchsia does bring up a good point. Why would wormtail want to kill Lupin? They were great friends in school.

Oh wait nevermind just answered my own question.
Wormtail do what Vldemort say.

Maybe not. I sure hope not. If Lupin goes I don't
want Wormtail to best him. I hate Wormtail.

That's okay those 80s movies weren't that good anyway. The line is used on TV a lot too.

There is a lot I want to know about Wormtail.
Why does he need so many big friends to protect him? Just stay out of trouble.
He shouldn't go with Voldemort. Voldemort does *not* protect anymore than Snape would.
I still think Peter made fun of Snape more than the other three did.
There were some not so popular kids in my schools who tried to make fun of me to fit in more with the popular kids. The popular kids were nice to me and it was those kids who weren't. So what if I was bad at sports but that's how they are. Peter reminds me of those kids.

Clingy, repellant, begging for crumbs. I hate Wormtail.

There isn't a generous impulse in his whole body.

I don't know why it is thought Wormtail will redeem himself.
He tried to suggest Voldemort use another kid than Harry but that could have been laziness or he's wimpy enough to be afraid of Harry too.
He sure didn't put up much of a fight.
And he likes his creepy silver hand!! I hope there aren't any uses for that....I'm afraid for Lupin now! *cries*

I want Lupin to be cured and make it to the end of
book 7. Wormtail could be controlled by a fly.

Lupin is my favorite. I'm protective of him.

Yeah even Crookshanks could kill him.

I don't want Lupin to be cured. Even though I love him.

It would be a terrible tragedy for the bite of a wolf to leave such a mark. But some scars can come in useful. If it's controlled by that potion he could turn his curse into his advantage. Besides, he's Remus Lupin the werewolf. That's how he left his signature in the book. Being cured would change him but turning things around would make him a happy werewolf. That would be the best arrangement, in my opinion.

I'm hoping he'll be cured later in the series, but I like
his werewolfry, too. I just want him to be able to
teach at Hogwarts where he has friends and there
are people who care about him.

Fantastic Beasts says there is no known cure for lycanthropy, and I'd rather believe a textbook like FB than anything Lockhart wrote. I wouldn't put it beyond him to embellish his works with made-up heroic details, even if most of it was based on someone else's testimony.

I find Lupin an interesting character precisely because he doesn't seem very interesting until we learn what a troubled soul he really is. That raises lots of questions about where his personality comes from. Is he so mild-mannered because he's compensating for the times when he isn't? Is that the way he is naturally? Or has he been beaten into submission by his personal demons? We can only wonder about questions like this for all the characters, but Lupin is one of the most subtly drawn.

Here's what JKR said about him in an interview available in book form in Britain:
"Professor Lupin is one of my favourite characters. He's a damaged person, literally and metaphorically. I think it's important for children to realise that adults can have problems too, that they struggle. His being a werewolf is really a metaphor for society's treatment of illness and disability."

In a perverse way, I don't want him to be cured (except right at the end) because it would take away what makes him special and interesting. People shouldn't have to change themselves in order to be accepted.

Originally posted by Kneazle


"As the hero who delivered them from the montly terror of werewolf attacks" sounds rather permanent, though.



Well, once Lockhart (or rather, the real hero) had the werewolf transformed into a human, everyone would know who the werewolf was, and could keep him under control.

I think there are plot reasons to keep him a werewolf, and
we'll find out someday.

If Lupin was killed, I'd really start to cry surely, because he's my favourite and he is a great person and character (and JK's favourite ;) )
But (apart from the silver hand thing) Wormtail would kill Sirius rather than Lupin. Sirius really hated Wormtail and wanted to kill him. If Lupin wasn't there, Sirius would have killed Wormtail, but Remus relaxed him, so Wormtail is in debt with Lupin and with Harry of course, because if they had not been there, Black would have killed Wormtail.
And Wormtail should die. And Lupin not be killed, neither cured.
But this silver-hand thing scares me.
Maybe its just a coincidence. Or maybe not....

We all know Lockhart tracked down witches/wizards, learned their stories, and put memory charms on them. So, can we all agree that although, he himself didn't perform the task, all of his accounts were true?

Anyway, in Chapter 10 of CoS, Lockhart says, "I performed the immensely complex Homorphus Charm...and he turned back into a man."

Could the Homorphus Charm be a cure for Lupin or was JKR just writing a simple antedocte?

This has been discussed in this thread

http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1615

Please use the search function in future.

Welcome to the Cos Forums.

Homporphus charm, that could be useful to be used in duelling , not useful really, but an extra charm.

I think i remember that somewhere in PoA, Lupin says that when he was bitten there was no cure. Maybe there is a cure but it has to be administered in early stages.

There could b a cure. a permanent one of course. my guess would be to use the pheonix's tears on Lupin, where he was bitten as a child. tell me what you think. ok?

Thanks, HagridsHouseElf! I'll go ahead and merge these threads. :)

I think the phoenix would have to cry on Lupin immediately after he had been bitten...perhaps he has been a werewolf too long.

I don't want a cure for Lupin. If he has a cure, then he is not unique and be more interesting character.
And may be JKR has future plan for his role as werewolf's benefit or advantage to something big.

I don't think there is a cure right now, but they might find one later...in the same way they found the potion....:evil:

Originally posted by Puffskein
Fantastic Beasts says there is no known cure for lycanthropy, and I'd rather believe a textbook like FB than anything Lockhart wrote.

Yes but FB also said that no Basilisk has been sighted in England for over 400 years. And we all know that's not true. So maybe there really is a cure, but it's like really rare or something.

Presumably the Basilisk at Hogwarts wasn't widely publicised. Imagine the reaction there would be. Or we're meant to think FB was written before the events of COS.

What about Aarog..? FB says his kind don't exisit. As for Lupin being a werewolf making him unique, I must disagree. Werewolf or not, Lupin is one of a kind.

No it doesn't, it just says it's an unconfirmed rumour. Who would want to send their child to Hogwarts if they knew there was a colony of monstrous spiders in the forest? Lupin may be one of a kind but did you think he was an interesting character before you found out he was a werewolf?

It all depends on what you mean by interesting. Yes, I'll be the first to admitt that the whole werewolf thing adds flavor to his character...but he was always the mysterious, paternal-esque character. He is interesting because he is one of few that didn't fear Voldemort and knows things about Harry that Harry doesn't know.

Originally posted by Fuchsia
If it was possible Dumbledore probably would have fixed it in his first year though.

I'm thinking there's a possibility for a cure, but it may have harmful side effects, Dumbledore didn't want to use it. At least there's a semi-permenant (is there a better word?) cure - that potion Snape made. Perhaps Snape was researching how to make a permenant cure - he does spend a lot of time in the dungeons and I have a feeling he would LOVE to be famous, even if he is helping out one of his "childhood enemies."

*bump*

Well, jordmundt6, it shows it was a good idea, even if your thread did get closed because it was like this one. I really wish it had been merged though. There were some good points made on it.

Okay, I believed my thread to be legitimate. But I guess not. So here's a merger by proxy:

Okay, We all remember Lockhart, yes? And we remember that although he didn't actually perform all those wonderful magical feats, SOMEONE DID. Someone who Lockhart tracked down, interviewed and then mind-scrambled. He identifies the person responsible for curing the Wagga Wagga Werewolf as "an Armenian warlock." So, apparently the method is legit.

The method[occurred in a telephone booth, I believe]--"I pinned him down with one arm..thus. I put used my free hand to jab my wand at his throat [or head but I think it's throat]. I screwed up my remaining strength and performed an immensely complex Homorphous Charm . He let out a piteous howl...[and returned to normal] And thus I saved another town from the monthly ravages of a werewolf."

This method is never brought up again. It appears to be a way to permanently cure a werewolf of lycanthropy (sp.). There's one catch. You have to be in a confined space with a transformed Werewolf to even attempt it and you have to be immensely strong and lucky to get enough power behind the charm. Here's my question. Do you think Harry could or would try to help Lupin by performing that Charm on him in the 5th book or later (assuming Remus isn't murdered in this book)? Would it work? Would Remus or Dumbledore, or Black, for that matter, let Harry try?

Anyway, I think this is a legitimate cure because Lockhart was always very careful to exactly copy the exploits of whoever he ripped off. And I don't think there are side effects, because those would have come up in the telling ("my noble efforts were in vain for in curing him I forced him to pay a terrible price for his crimes" or some such).

Here is Lockhart's MO:

He takes credit for what other people do, but he records events exactly. The "witch with a hare-lip" who banished the Bandon Banshee did what he wrote.

Remember, he said he was very careful. It's a thorough process.

1. Hear the story from several third parties.
2. Track down the hero.
3. Ask the hero exaclty how he or she did it and get specific answers.
4. Wipe the hero's memory.
5. Record the heroic tale in exact detail inserting self (Lockhart) in hero's place.

So, the description is legit. It wasn't a lie. The Armenian warlock actually pulled it off. And it should be either in Wanderings with Werewolves, or in Lockhart's notes someplace.

It would be great if Lockheart thought to get the spell from the Armenian wizard before he put the memory charm on him and if he recorded it somewhere before he lost his own memory.

I think it may be buried in Wanderings With Werewolves. If it is, do you think Harry's friends would let him try it on Lupin?

Could Black do it while he is in his dog form? That would be the safest way, if possible. I don't think they would let Harry do it, but he would probably do it anyway.

I don't think Sirius can do any complicated spells in dog form [maybe no simple ones either].
They require the use of a wand. No hands, no wand use.

Silver can also cure a werewolf??? At least - I was always led to believe a silver bullet could - if shot into a limb and not a fatal place. But then - they would have done that already, wouldn't they? I doubt Remus would mind a little hole as opposed to life long freedom.

Sirius might give it a shot, but I think Harry is stronger than he is and better equipped to do a spell of this magnitude. The only other candidate I see for this job is Dumbledore, and there is NO WAY Lupin would let him risk his life just to free him. Lupin would have similar objections to Harry, but Harry probably still doesn't see himself being as vital to the security of the magical world as Dumbledore is, so he'd try it anyway.

I thought that silver killed werewolves but authors can make up their own rules about these things.

Yes, authors have been known to make up their own rules. Anybody know why Rowling described Pettigrew's new hand as "powerful"? It would seem that Voldemort gave more than he appeared to and Pettigrew just doesn't know it yet.

I think she described his hand as powerful because he crushed something into powder. I don't have my book right now, and I don't remember what, but crushing something into powder is kind of powerful, no? And isn't Wormtail's hand silver? I don't think that's a good sign for Lupin.

Well, your question is better suited to the thread The Silver Hand. I don't want to get off topic since we already have a thread for that. :) :)
It's a good question though.

Oh, sorry Fuschia! :o

In another thread someone pointed out - if the Homorphus Charm exists, why didn't someone do it on Lupin when he'd had the potion and was harmless?

I think it would be a cop-out for Lupin to get a miracle cure just by someone waving a wand. It would be cool if some weird magical force gave his inner wolf a body of its own, then it could run off, eat some baddies and free him of the curse. But first, the magical community would have to learn to accept werewolves. Lupin is a metaphor for ill and disabled people who really need to be accepted as they are.

I agree with Puffskein. Wizards can't fix every problem or differences will never be accepted. Perhaps that they can fix as much as they can is a reason they aren't. There are potions to make hair not bushy so anyone who has that is frowned on?
And the same for ratty clothes and being a werewolf in the case of Lupin.

Two things. Sorry Fuschia it was my fault. I remembered the hand had been characterized as "powerful" (not strong, powerful) and wondered if there was any significance to that. With the "splitting" of man and wolf, I think Lupin would actually feel worse. He'd unleashed a mankilling beast that was impossible to control and too dangerous to approach. Not a good combination.

Good point jordmundt6. Knowing Lupin, he wouldn't want to endanger anyone more than he already is by having an extremely dangerous animal loose.

Yeah, that might be the one thing that keeps him a werewolf. As much as he longs to be normal, he wouldn't let anyone he cared about endanger themselves to free him. Look at his reaction to what happened the night Pettigrew got away. "I could have bitten any of you. That must never happen again...etc. etc. etc." He's overcompensating for a relatively (only relatively) reckless and carefree youth by beating himself up too much as an adult.

I agree with Puffskein as well.
Being a warewolf is part of who Lupin is. He takes precautions and is usually not in a situtation to hurt anyone.
People ought to accept him for who he is without resorting to a cure. :)

Especially a "cure" that may, or may not, be real. There is still debate that Lockheart really found the cure. [Or that the Armenian wizard found it.]

I think Remus will die:(. Not that I want him to, because I love him so much. I think he'll die doing something really noble, and people will then finally believe that he is a good person, not some heartless monster. And everyone will feel bad because they had turned their back on such a wonderful person. Serves them right!

Lupin being a werewolf is like Harry being an orphan and growing up with the Durleys. It isn't nice for them but it's made them who they are. I've noticed that there is a sort of parallel between Lupin and Harry. Both survived an attack by a dark force when they were young and have more than a scar to remember it by (I presume Lupin has at least one scar). I doubt if this means anything, but you could call Lupin a "Boy Who Lived" too.

could of been a lie

Barbara--WHY is there still a debate about its existence? Do we think the Bandon Banshee is still bopping around somewhere as well? If not, then why should we doubt the veracity of the Armenian warlock? GRRR. This is what drives me nuts about the "could have been a lie" argument. We know that Lockhart finds out about actual events, finds the obscure people who rise to the occassion and do these wonderful things, finds out exactly how they did it, wipes their memories and then publishes a book about the stuff, parroting the event, but inserting himself as the hero. :grumble:

Alrighty, enough. Please you to why am I always breaking you both up? I can see your both dedicated people, but come on, why am I always getting PMs from various people about you? I can see you dont get on, but that doesnt mean you cant be civil to each other.

jordmundt6: The cure might be false. We know Lockhart made up many things, so why not this. Until we know for certain (IE JKR writes it in the book) we may never know.

Barbara: The Cure from all accounts might exist. Obviously these stories come from somewhere, Lockhart has copied them off someone.

If you have any other problems, please PM me with Specific problems...

Agreed, lanifiel. I never meant to state it wasn't true. I meant that it was still open for debate if anyone cared to.

I doubt that the Homorphus Charm exists. Most of what Lockhart says is either lies or just imaginary. I know he does his research and all, but he probably doesn't really know what he's talking about half the time.:rolleyes:

And I don't think such a charm would be developed soon, I mean what with Voldermort and his Death Eaters running about, there won't be anytime for research and experiments.

My guess is that the Homorphus Charm really exists, but we don't know how it works. Maybe it is extremely dangerous or hard to preform. We know that the potion that Snape makes of Lupin is very hard to make. I would not imagine that something that would outright cure him would be not be risky. Maybe it works like a bad memory charm in the sense that the person is left in worse shape than the person began.

Personally, I'd love for it to work. Unfortunately I don't think we will get to see it.
I think JKR has other plans for Lupin. I just hope they are good for him.

Unfortunately, I don't think so. I think the long-term plans for Remus involve Peter's "powerful" silver hand. And what Lockhart says is NOT imaginary. He just takes credit for what other people did. Which means, other people actually DID DO IT. And yes. the Homorphous Charm is extremely difficult and dangerous to perform. It's highly complex and you have to be at close quarters with a transformed werewolf for it to work.

OK, OK already, jordmundt6.
*sigh*:sigh:

Well, I'm back to annoy again. I think this thread should be moved back up front since we sporadically bump into the topic on the ALL ABOUT REMUS thread. I still see Peter's silver hand glowing ominously in Remus' future. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Lupin already touched silver at 12 Grimmauld Place. And it's silver bullets that kill werewolves, not just silver. And Pettigrew's hand is silver-colored, not necessarily silver. And on and on. Even if his hand was capable of killing Lupin, I have a feeling that Peter isn't the type of person who would exactly be able to kill.

Lupin already touched silver at 12 Grimmauld Place. And it's silver bullets that kill werewolves, not just silver. And Pettigrew's hand is silver-colored, not necessarily silver. And on and on. Even if his hand was capable of killing Lupin, I have a feeling that Peter isn't the type of person who would exactly be able to kill.

Yes the silver would have to combine with Lupins blood to kill him. I think there could be a cure for a werewolf because Lupin was turned into a werewolf during his life, so based on the theory that there is an equal and opposite reaction to most things in life, then it should be possible to turn Lupin back into the human wizard state he was before he was turned. Sorry that is a long sentence...

I always thought that what ever Lockhart wrote, was written because he stole it from a well known wizard or at least a wizard or witch that had done something important. Maybe there was a wizard out there that was working on a potion that would cure a werewolf, so Lockhart stole his story...

I don't though what would cure a werewolf but if Voldemort can get a body back then Lupin must be able to find a cure for his werewolf state. Ahhh....there is an idea, if Lupin was affected (thanks Barbara Kennedy) in the same way as Voldemort was, then he could get a body back without the werewolf element.

Lupin already touched silver at 12 Grimmauld Place. And it's silver bullets that kill werewolves, not just silver. And Pettigrew's hand is silver-colored, not necessarily silver. And on and on. Even if his hand was capable of killing Lupin, I have a feeling that Peter isn't the type of person who would exactly be able to kill.

Actually, werewolf legends - which usually wind up with the werewolf dead - predate bullets. Anything silver will do (in one of the first werewolf movies from the 50's, I believe the silver head of a walking stick was used). Fire and beheading have also been popular in folklore. The idea seems to be a mixture of silver representing purity and it also being associated with the moon that causes the transformation. Hence, it can defeat the magical protection of the werewolf, it being the result of a kind of dark magic and associated with the moon.

Also, Pettigrew can sure kill when he feels he has to. He killed 12 people as a smokescreen when he betrayed Lily & James. He seems just the kind of person to use his "powerful" silver (not silvery-looking--silver) hand to kill Lupin. We know the Homorphous Charm is legit because Lockhart can remember interviewing the guy. Of course, the guy could have lied. Wouldn't that be ironic, the world's most blatant impostor tricked by another poser? Anyhow it appears legitimate and it appears that there is more than one type of Homorphous Charm. Maybe it's in the same family as the spell that Lupin and Black used to force Wormtail into human form.

*chastised about the bullet stuff*

He seems just the kind of person to use his "powerful" silver (not silvery-looking--silver) hand to kill Lupin.
Again, we do not know that the hand is silver. The hand is silver colored. We are reading the books from Harry's point of view. There is no way that Harry could possibly have known that it was silver just by looking at it. It is "powerful" because it can crush things easily - like the leaf turning to dust. And remember what Pettigrew was like in the Shack? Doesn't seem to me like someone who would kill Remus Lupin. Yes, he killed 12 people. But he killed 12 unpeople, 12 muggles, 12 people that he wasn't killing directly. He was just making an explosion.

I would agree, but the hand is described as silver and appears to be a different substance from Pettigrew's flesh. It isn't a regrowth but a replacement that is only described as "silver" and "powerful" not merely as "silver-colored."

I don't think it was a regrown hand. It was a replacement from Voldemort, that's why it went away when Harry thwarted LV. If it was regrown I don't think it would have gone away as it had done.

That's exactly what I said, it's a replacement, NOT a regrowth. It appears to be like silver molded into flesh and bone.

It most definitely is a replacement. It actually appears in Priori Incantatem. I just don't think you can assume it is silver; and even if it was silver, I don't think you can assume it will play a role.

These just seem to be ominous details. I'm hoping the suspicion is incorrect but...we can't throw it out just yet.

That'd be so cool if there was a cure for Lupin! But i doubt it...

My question is, why hasn't it been addressed yet? She just introduces it (the Homorphous Charm cure), validates it and drops it like a burnng coal. Why not at least bring it up again, maybe to prove that it was a complete fabrication, but at least acknowledge that it's been mentioned before.

I dont think he will( i'd love if he was though)

I think he will save young wizard kids or something and prove to the magical community that not all werewolf's(giants, half breeds etc) are bad

He's done everything humanly possible to prove that already. Unless he's personally responsible for the defeat of Voldemort, I don't see him getting acepted into the mainstream magical community.

I have to agree with that, but at least he has been able to influence children who may have become more tolerant. I hope this will lead eventually to greater acceptance for future generations of werewolves.

But how deep does that influence really run. Look at Ron's reaction in the Shrieking Shack. Lupin moves to help him with his injury and his response is "Get away from me werewolf!" I hope there will be a lasting impact, but other than Dean and Seamus's comments and Harry and Hermione's own open-mindedness, I see very few real results from Lupin's grand experiment (or perhaps it would be better termed a project).

My question is, why hasn't it been addressed yet? She just introduces it (the Homorphous Charm cure), validates it and drops it like a burnng coal. Why not at least bring it up again, maybe to prove that it was a complete fabrication, but at least acknowledge that it's been mentioned before.

Have I got this write that the Homorphous Charm cure might reverse the problems that Lupin has and keep him in his human for rather than in his werewolf form. If that is true then no wonder J.K.Rowling dumped the Homorphous Charm cure as she probably did not want too much emphasis made on a charm that could be used against Voldemort to revert him back to his human wizard form.

Unnh--different problem. Voldemort had mutated himself to the point where, not being truly alive he couldn't truly die. Lupin has a condition that impedes his life, but he's still fully human. It's like having psychotic SAD. If there is a cure for it, a real cure (not a controlling measure like Wolfsbane that just allows him to remain a human mind inside a wolf's body), why not try it?

Unnh--different problem. Voldemort had mutated himself to the point where, not being truly alive he couldn't truly die. Lupin has a condition that impedes his life, but he's still fully human. It's like having psychotic SAD. If there is a cure for it, a real cure (not a controlling measure like Wolfsbane that just allows him to remain a human mind inside a wolf's body), why not try it?

Well yes my responce to that last post was a weak one as I shivered too much too even properly write it. Now I am much warmer than before.

You got a good point jordmundt6 but then again perhaps there is a cure for his condition and Lupin just does not want to take it because he has been a werewolf so long that he has learned to accept what he is.

Well, he might consider it a just punishment for all the risks he ran as a youth. But no, it's something very painful and it has nothing to do with his identity as a person. It's not like asking a centaur or a merperson to become a witch or wizard where they're fundamentally altering their basic nature just to fit someone else's standard of "normal." Lupin was a victim as a small boy and his metamorphosis into this predator is the final expression of his victimhood. He had no control over how he got this way and there's nothing he can do to stop himself from being this thing every month. If he could be cured without putting anyone else in danger, he would jump at it. But this involves putting another wizard or witch (most likely Harry or Dumbledore) in close quarters with him when he's transformed. So, he's asking them to risk at least becoming werewolves themselves and at most death, just to give him a "normal" life. I don't think he thinks he's worth that. And I'm just as sure that he's wrong.

Originaly posted by jordmundt6
But this involves putting another wizard or witch (most likely Harry or Dumbledore) in close quarters with him when he's transformed. So, he's asking them to risk at least becoming werewolves themselves and at most death, just to give him a "normal" life. I don't think he thinks he's worth that. And I'm just as sure that he's wrong.

I see what you're saying... But what if Lupin took the Wolfsbane? He'd keep his mind. Maybe it doesn't work :shrug: I dunno I'm going to continue beating myself in the head with this wall...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

But how deep does that influence really run. Look at Ron's reaction in the Shrieking Shack. Lupin moves to help him with his injury and his response is "Get away from me werewolf!" I hope there will be a lasting impact, but other than Dean and Seamus's comments and Harry and Hermione's own open-mindedness, I see very few real results from Lupin's grand experiment (or perhaps it would be better termed a project).

I expect Ron was just reacting out of shock, he didn't mind having dinner with Lupin at Grimmauld Place. Hermione showed a bit of prejudice too. When she told Harry not to trust Lupin, and accused Lupin of wanting to kill Harry, she didn't have any evidence, did she? She just said that because he's a werewolf, but she was willing to accept he was a good guy when the shock subsided.

I'm afraid the whole Homorphus business is very fishy to me. Fantastic Beasts, a popular textbook, states that there is no known cure for werewolves, and it's up-to-date enough to mention wolfsbane. The St Mungo's healers can't cure lycanthropy, and as medical professionals they must have a duty to inform patients of any possible treatment, no matter how difficult or painful. I doubt severely that Homorphus is a cure, but someone should ask JKR why she mentioned it at all.

I expect Ron was just reacting out of shock, he didn't mind having dinner with Lupin at Grimmauld Place. Hermione showed a bit of prejudice too. When she told Harry not to trust Lupin, and accused Lupin of wanting to kill Harry, she didn't have any evidence, did she? She just said that because he's a werewolf, but she was willing to accept he was a good guy when the shock subsided.

I'm afraid the whole Homorphus business is very fishy to me. Fantastic Beasts, a popular textbook, states that there is no known cure for werewolves, and it's up-to-date enough to mention wolfsbane. The St Mungo's healers can't cure lycanthropy, and as medical professionals they must have a duty to inform patients of any possible treatment, no matter how difficult or painful. I doubt severely that Homorphus is a cure, but someone should ask JKR why she mentioned it at all.

Just out of curiosity who stated that the Homorphus is a cure for returning a werewolf perminantly back to there complete human wizard self. Was it Hermione because if it was, I am inclinde to believe that the cure exists. JKR will never tell us why she mentioned Homorphus cure, back to reality check... :lol:

Add that on to the list of questions everyone's formulating, that you know will never get asked. Blaise Zabini, anyone?

Like jordmundt said, I would bet there is some sort of relationship between the Homorphus charm and the one Lupin and Sirius used in the Shack. Homorphus literally means man-shape, so it oculd easily just be used to change someone into a man, in any form. So while they probably aren't the same thing, they could easily be related. When it comes down to it, I have a feeling that someone used the Homorphus Charm to turn a werewolf back to a human in one instance. Afterwords, they would still turn into a werewolf. But then, IMO, Lockhart exxagerated to say it was permanently cured, when really it was just for that one month.

Add that on to the list of questions everyone's formulating, that you know will never get asked. Blaise Zabini, anyone?

Like jordmundt said, I would bet there is some sort of relationship between the Homorphus charm and the one Lupin and Sirius used in the Shack. Homorphus literally means man-shape, so it oculd easily just be used to change someone into a man, in any form. So while they probably aren't the same thing, they could easily be related. When it comes down to it, I have a feeling that someone used the Homorphus Charm to turn a werewolf back to a human in one instance. Afterwords, they would still turn into a werewolf. But then, IMO, Lockhart exxagerated to say it was permanently cured, when really it was just for that one month.

You all have good points and yes Lockhart could have stolen the idea from a wizard who was still experimenting with the Homorphus Charm. I mean even if Lockhart had a working charm he is so stupid that he would still probably change how it works in his books. If the charm did not work then Lockhart would have change it, modified it and fudge to make it work (wow, Lockhart would make a great physicist as they do that all the time with maths equations, the add a fudge factor to make there theories fit).

Anyway this wolfsbane sound herbally so maybe this is an area for Neville to tackle and help Lupin find a cure.

I understand where everyon's coming from where it would be logical if Lupin was the next on pettegrew's list to kill. Yes, they were friends in school but obviously he thought he wasn't treated fairly....
But i do hope that for Harry's sake that Lupin isn't going to die, because he's (as everyone knows) already "lost" Sirius... i have quotational marks, because I'm one of the many fans that don;t want to believe...
But anyway, I believe Lupin'll be on the list but Pettigrew wont get the best of him. Hopefully Harry could stay with him, and if there isn't a cure, can make one...

Okay, here's the thing about Lockhart. Yes he is an airheaded peacock but he's an EXACT and EXACTING airheaded peacock. For all the incidents he takes credit for he tracks down the person who did it finds out exactly what they did and what long-term effects were so that nobody, not the person who performed the feat and not the people he or she helped will say "Hey wait a gosh-darn minute! That didn't happen." He records what actually happened and just takes the credit for it. I think this is a permanent cure, it just requires a lot of power, a lot of bravery, and a little recklessness. And if there's one thing Lupin will not permit, it's other people being reckless with their own lives just to benefit him.

Puff--Yes, Ron and Hermione were both shocked. But Hermione's list of important demerits were as follows

1. and most important--Lupin's been helping Black get into the castle.

2. and almost as important--He does--or he must want Harry dead too.

3. Oh, by the way--He's a WEREWOLF--which I was covering up because in and of itself it's not a problem but put that together with the other things and he's a MENACE.

Ron's reaction is "Get away from me werewolf!" Not "Get away from me you scheming, murdering son of a :grumble: (who's also a werewolf)". Yes, Ron had absolutely no problem eating with Lupin in Book 5 because he knew Lupin, but we didn't see his reaction to finding out the guy in the bed across from his father at St. Mungo's had received a werewolf bite. He considered the most important, most harmful evidence against Lupin to be his status as a werewolf and that's what he fixated on as a gut reaction. That's a product of the environment in which he grew up (his friends, not so much his parents or his family), but it's still disturbing.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the Charm wouldn't work properly if it were performed on Lupin after he'd taken Wolfsbane. And I will also continue to bang my head against the wall. :banghead: :banghead:

Okay, here's the thing about Lockhart. Yes he is an airheaded peacock but he's an EXACT and EXACTING airheaded peacock. For all the incidents he takes credit for he tracks down the person who did it finds out exactly what they did and what long-term effects were so that nobody, not the person who performed the feat and not the people he or she helped will say "Hey wait a gosh-darn minute! That didn't happen." He records what actually happened and just takes the credit for it. I think this is a permanent cure, it just requires a lot of power, a lot of bravery, and a little recklessness. And if there's one thing Lupin will not permit, it's other people being reckless with their own lives just to benefit him.
While it's true that from what we know of Lockhart he is exacting, to steal your word, you have to admit that he was on a slippery slope. It would be easy to go from one fraud to another. Or maybe he didn't even perpetrate fraud. Look at it this way. There are two degrees of seperation from supposedly curing the werewolf and having it published in Lockhart's book - from the supposed curer to Lockhart and from Lockhart to his book. So if what really happened was that someone converted a werewolf just for one month, and he would still be vulnerable every month, either the "curer" could have embellished to say that he permenantly cured the werewolf, or Lockhart could have embellished to say that he permenantly cured the werewolf. Either one would work. We know absolutely nothing about the person who really did the Homorphus Charm, so he could easily be a stuck up genius. Even if you want to say that Lockhart was too careful about getting caught to lie, it could be that he just met a guy in a bar during his travels and the guy embellished his story to make it seem like the werewolf is permanently cured. Still not convincing to you? Perhaps, but it's more likely than the Fantastic Beasts book being wrong, don't you think so. I don't care if Lupin would not have wanted someone to risk his life to help him - if the Homorphus Charm could really be used, then DD could have done it regardless of Lupin's protests when Lupin was 11 years old (that is, if Lupin would have protested at age 11, and if it would have made a difference whether he protested while he was a werewolf).

There are two degrees of seperation from supposedly curing the werewolf and having it published in Lockhart's book - from the supposed curer to Lockhart and from Lockhart to his book. So if what really happened was that someone converted a werewolf just for one month, and he would still be vulnerable every month, either the "curer" could have embellished to say that he permenantly cured the werewolf, or Lockhart could have embellished to say that he permenantly cured the werewolf. Either one would work.

I'd assumed that the Homorphus Charm was just Lockart making stuff up, given what we find out about him later. However, throughout CoS Lockhart was consistently a bull artist, and most of the students and staff took what he was saying with a large pinch of salt, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine him just inventing it out of whole cloth.

I don't care if Lupin would not have wanted someone to risk his life to help him - if the Homorphus Charm could really be used, then DD could have done it regardless of Lupin's protests when Lupin was 11 years old (that is, if Lupin would have protested at age 11, and if it would have made a difference whether he protested while he was a werewolf).

More than that, if it was a permanent cure, you would simply keep the bitten person in St Mungo's until they transformed for the first time, then have an expert Healer cast the charm to cure them. Bish bosh, case solved.

I do like the argument that the Charm (if actually known to magical medical science) just puts the wolf back into human form for that one time, though, and that the transformation still takes place the next month as usual. In which case it would be a lot less useful than the Wolfsbane Potion, as someone has to get close to a transformed werewolf to use it (potentially dangerous, although I assume they'd be under some kind of restraint).

I could be wrong but if I'm not mistaken doesnt Homo mean human (as in "homo sapiens") and morph means to change into something? So Homorphus would mean to change into a human? Implying that it is not a permanent cure. Perhaps they were saved from the monthly werewolf attacks because, as someone already posted, they found out who it was and restrained him every month or whatever.

sorry if someone else has said the same thing as me, i only read the first page as itll take me a day to read all the posts.
but doesnt anyone remember dd saying theres a certain bond between harry and wormtail?? (its fresh on my mind cos i just finished PoA for about the 10th time :p :p ) this makes me think that maybe voldie tells wormtail to kill lupin but then he wont/cant kill him cos lupins the only person that can tell harry about his dad. well, from the best point of view anyway, i mean dd can but it wouldnt be the same, get me???
and then after wormtail fails to kill lupin voldie kills wormtail??? or maybe harry saves wormtail again (well not really again) (and i cont know what made me think harry would ever do such thing) and then wormtail helps harry etc. (there should be people backing harry up when hes about to defeat voldie)
hows that for a theory??? its starting to confuse me, but it should still get to you :)

he'sdead--I believe based on the testimony of the Armenian warlock and the agreement of the village that the cure is permanent. However, notice that this is a backwoods cure that's probably only known in that little area. It's the Charms genius fiddling in his basement coming up with a breakthrough (rather like the eccentric engineer or programming genius). Also, Lockhart is relatively new on the scene--maybe five years. So, it's quite possible (I think it's certain, but I'm hedging my bets here) that the cure really didn't exist until about the same time as the Wolfsbane potion (which itself is a "recent" invention--maybe five years old). It would not have been in existence when Remus was at school, Dumbledore would have had nothing to try. As an adult, there's no way Remus would risk the only two surviving wizards powerful enough to perform the Charm. If Sirius had survived--here we go again--Lupin might have trusted his best bud to try it once because he knew if things went south, Sirius could transform into a dog instantaneously and thus avoid infection. But not now, and not five years ago. If it had been developed two decades ago (and Dumbledore had heard about it), certainly.

he'sdead--I believe based on the testimony of the Armenian warlock and the agreement of the village that the cure is permanent. However, notice that this is a backwoods cure that's probably only known in that little area. It's the Charms genius fiddling in his basement coming up with a breakthrough (rather like the eccentric engineer or programming genius).
That's very possible, but when Lockhart mentioned the Charm, it seemed like it was a Charm that most very well educated wizards would have heard about (and second years would only be impressed) but that was not a new invention. In other words, it seemed to me like it was a fairly difficult but old Charm that could have been used in a new and inventive manner - but possibly only to work for one month (maybe - I still can't trust Lockhart on this).

Also, Lockhart is relatively new on the scene--maybe five years. So, it's quite possible (I think it's certain, but I'm hedging my bets here) that the cure really didn't exist until about the same time as the Wolfsbane potion (which itself is a "recent" invention--maybe five years old). It would not have been in existence when Remus was at school, Dumbledore would have had nothing to try. As an adult, there's no way Remus would risk the only two surviving wizards powerful enough to perform the Charm. If Sirius had survived--here we go again--Lupin might have trusted his best bud to try it once because he knew if things went south, Sirius could transform into a dog instantaneously and thus avoid infection. But not now, and not five years ago. If it had been developed two decades ago (and Dumbledore had heard about it), certainly.
Remember in St. Mungo's when Lupin talked to the man who had been bit? Lupin talked about new progress on the fightint lycanthropy front, and it seemed to me that he was definitely alluding to something like the Wolfsbane potion, not something that could permanently cure the man. If the Homorphus charm was invented in the past few years, you would think that, as has been mentioned, someone at St. Mungos would have been able to master it and use it on Lupin.

Lockhart's books were beloved by the masses and also obviously not for the elites, too. Nevertheless, if Lockhart wrote about a new method of permanently curing lycanthropy, you can be that people would have checked it out. No matter how disreputable to source, if something as momentous as a cure for werewolves was discovered, it would have been checked. Look at the reaction after Harry talked to Rita in the Quibbler for a good example. So if the Homorphus charm was new, then I fully believe that even the smarter people, like Dumbledore, knew that Lockhart was a fraud, they still would have dug deeper. Knowing all this, it's just to much of a stretch for me to believe that a cure has been found, even if found recently.

But they'd have to find his notes. If he kept them in a place only he would know about--guess what? They're lost. Now the charm might be lost if he decided to only allude to it in his books because the person who did it doesn't remember how it was done and Lockhart can barely remember how to act like a six-year-old. It might just be gone or lost. The next DADA teacher might go rummaging through the office one day and and "Hey look what I found!"

Yes, Lupin was talking about the Wolfsbane potion. I'm not sure Lupin is even aware of Lockhart's claim. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy with enough money to buy any of those books.

On the St. Mungo's thing--Do you really think that one of the top healers there (probably the only one with the power and the brains to figure out the Homorphous charm is going to risk his/her life for a total stranger by sequestering him/herself with a fully transformed werewolf on the offchance that this MIGHT work? I highly doubt it. Only someone willing to sacrifice him or herself for a friend would attempt this. I think that maybe the Armenian warlock knew the guy that he saved and that was just a detail that Lockhart eliminated from his transcript becuase--hey it owuldn't have made sense for a stranger to bond with a local that quickly.

Okay, here's the thing about Lockhart. Yes he is an airheaded peacock but he's an EXACT and EXACTING airheaded peacock. For all the incidents he takes credit for he tracks down the person who did it finds out exactly what they did and what long-term effects were so that nobody, not the person who performed the feat and not the people he or she helped will say "Hey wait a gosh-darn minute! That didn't happen." He records what actually happened and just takes the credit for it

You seem to know Lockhart much better than I do. Yes, he got the gist of his books from interviewing people, but I don't see any solid evidence that he never, ever changed, added or omitted details to suit himself. He might have put memory charms on all the witnesses so that nobody could challenge his account. (There's also the chance that the interviewees didn't tell the whole truth.) He strikes me as being not so much exacting as he is self-seeking - I don't think he'd really put absolute truth above personal glory. You don't have to get angry about it either. Other people have as much right to their own interpretation of the books as you do.

Puff--Yes, Ron and Hermione were both shocked. But Hermione's list of important demerits were as follows

1. and most important--Lupin's been helping Black get into the castle.

2. and almost as important--He does--or he must want Harry dead too.

3. Oh, by the way--He's a WEREWOLF--which I was covering up because in and of itself it's not a problem but couople with the others he's a MENACE.

My point was something like this: Picture the scene. Our three heroes have just seen their teacher exchange a manly hug with a convicted murderer. Naturally they must all think Lupin has been deceiving them. Yet Hermione takes it upon herself to tell Harry not to trust Lupin, despite having no evidence to refute the claim Lupin is trying to make (that he hasn't been Black's friend for 12 years). That makes me think Hermione only wades in because she knows of a reason to distrust Lupin that the boys don't. Namely, that he's a werewolf, and she's taken up some of the prejudice in the books she read for Snape's essay.
EDIT: and then she said, "If I'd been a bit cleverer, I'd have told everyone what you are!" I expect that, being a tolerant person, she was inclined to disbelieve the prejudiced things she was reading, but has just been shocked to find that Lupin seemed to be acting like a stereotypical werewolf.

Ron's reaction is "Get away from me werewolf!" Not "Get away from me you scheming, murdering son of a :censored: (who's also a werewolf)". He considered the most important, most harmful evidence against Lupin to be his status as a werewolf and that's what he fixated on as a gut reaction. That's a product of the environment in which he grew up (his friends, not so much his parents or his family), but it's still disturbing.


Remember when Ron said that: it was just after Lupin answered Hermione's accusations. Ron was addressing Lupin as that which he had just admitted himself to be.

Hermione I can understand because she made the same conclusion Harry did based on how Lupin acted towards Black. Ron I do not understand because he fixated on Lupin's being a werewolf in spite of two much more troubling and relevant accusations that Hermione had made which would make Lupin much more dangerous than he is solely as a werewolf. In GoF, Ron freaked out about Hagrid being half-giant even though he'd known him for more than three years and knew the depth of his courage and his friendship and had risked his own hide to clear Hagrid's name once. That's just as troubling as this scene.

What can't you understand about him? He grew up in a society that was deeply averse to werewolves, and it shows. All it means is that Ron is ordinary and not extraordinary. I don't think it's troubling. He's a product of what he grew up in. You can't expect him to be unbiased. It's not a detriment to his personality that he is biased. It's just not something good for him either.

Yes he did. But he didn't get that view from his family (unless he imbibed more of Percy than the other sibs). He didn't get it from either parent and he certainly didn't get it from his eldest brothers. I don't see the excuse for him to have the worst prejudices of his society undiluted given that he grew up in one of the best and most open-minded families in Wizard Britain. The one that he didn't imbibe (thankfully) is this moronic Pureblood mania. As for the rest of them, he seems to have accepted them at face value. Not good.

Predjudice is human nature. No matter how accepting we think we are, there will always be predjudice running under our surface. Even if it doesn't show. Ron has done nothing wrong except be human. His parents are the same. Sure they accept Lupin and all the other types of half bloods etc, but underneath, there is predjudice running.

It happens in all of us. The best of us. Mostly it just takes a bad incident to bring it out. Sorry, but it is human nature.

What I don't understand is where is the proof that it is a permanent (rather than a one month) cure? You are all talking about it like it is permanent but the simplest explanation is that it is just a one month cure

Presumably in Lockhart's interview with that Armenian Warlock and in the fact that no werewolf activity was reported in the area after the charm was performed.

But again, there's no solid proof either way. Another idea - maybe it was just for that one month, but then the warlock killed the werewolf after he was turned back to a man, so he wouldn't reappear? Do you have to use silver to kill a werewolf in the shape of a man? (Or maybe he did use silver to kill him in the shape of a man . . . ?)

About Ron. While it is true that the Weasley's are one of the more open minded families, many people identify more with their society than with their family. Furthermore, with Apparition and such (as well as the method of communication that JKR hinted about, that she said was better than the Internet), wizarding society is much more close-knit than Muggle society. Not only that, but house elves, werewolves, and giants are much more obviously different from everyone else than, say, blacks are from whites. It is much easier to become biased and harder to remove bias in this society than in ours. Furthermore, the discrimination against giants seems to have had a strong basis - you could argue from what we've seen of them that society was improved with giants banished. Werewolves, likewise, in their transformed form, have no good characteristics. That still doesn't justify discrimination against their human form, but, again, it makes bias easier to arise and harder to dispel.

True, but based on the amount of careful research Lockhart does and the danger of some villager popping out othe woodowrk saying "Hey we still HAVE that werewolf around here!" would be enough to make him cautious in his claims until they were proven.

But they'd have to find his notes. If he kept them in a place only he would know about--guess what? They're lost. Now the charm might be lost if he decided to only allude to it in his books because the person who did it doesn't remember how it was done and Lockhart can barely remember how to act like a six-year-old. It might just be gone or lost. The next DADA teacher might go rummaging through the office one day and and "Hey look what I found!"
That's assuming that the book was published recently. Unless I'm mistaken, the book that mentioned the werewolf was not Lockhart's most recent one. It was could have been published anywhere from around the middle of SS to 10 or more years before CoS, most likely about three to five years previously. So wouldn't the claim have been challenged then, not years later when the notes were gone?

Yes, Lupin was talking about the Wolfsbane potion. I'm not sure Lupin is even aware of Lockhart's claim. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy with enough money to buy any of those books.
Most likely. But if Lupin had heard a whisper about a possible cure for werewolves, he would probably have checked it out - there have to be libraries, right?

On the St. Mungo's thing--Do you really think that one of the top healers there (probably the only one with the power and the brains to figure out the Homorphous charm is going to risk his/her life for a total stranger by sequestering him/herself with a fully transformed werewolf on the offchance that this MIGHT work? I highly doubt it. Only someone willing to sacrifice him or herself for a friend would attempt this. I think that maybe the Armenian warlock knew the guy that he saved and that was just a detail that Lockhart eliminated from his transcript becuase--hey it wouldn't have made sense for a stranger to bond with a local that quickly.
All right. Picture the scene when the man in St. Mungo's transforms into a werewolf. Most likely he is placed into a separate, isolated room that is inpenetrable from the inside or the outside. So, it would be simple to create a tiny hole in the wall that a wand could be put through. A Healer could then perform the charm throught the hole. Or if the Healer needed to see the werewolf or something like that, then probably they could make an unbreakable window with a small hole through it. Regardless, if there was a possibility that the Homorphus charm was for real, I find it impossible to believe that the Healers couldn't find some way to test the charm or something like it out without any chance of their being harmed.

EDIT: The last post before mine is yesterday. Did some posts get deleted somehow?

Looks like the post you quoted got deleted. I hate when they erase posts tha I put a lot of work into. (unlike this one).

On a side note--It looks like the charm has to be very powerful and cast very close to the wolf. I don't know that sticking a wand through a hole in the wall and firing away is going to do it. Plus what if you miss? Does the chair become human, how about the bed? are you just feeding the werewolf if you miss him/her?

True, but based on the amount of careful research Lockhart does and the danger of some villager popping out othe woodowrk saying "Hey we still HAVE that werewolf around here!" would be enough to make him cautious in his claims until they were proven.
Gilderoy can just say "Hey, who are you going to believe? The internationally famous superstar who's done loads of amazing things or this publicity-seeking nonentity?". If wizards are anything like Muggles, most people - and most journalists - simply wouldn't bother to check details, or would allow for the fact that an autobiographical work might contain significant exaggerations.

Incidentally, something about the "Armenian warlock" bit was nagging at me, so I looked up what CoS actually said - and I think that's a different event to the Homorphus Charm incident (if it actually happened).

Here's the gist of the all the passages I could think of in CoS that mention werewolves:

Ch. 4 "At Flourish and Blotts" - one of Lockhart's book titles is "Wanderings with Werewolves".

Ch.6 "Gilderoy Lockhart" - Justin Finch-Fletchley talking to Harry: "I'd have died of fear if I'd been cornered in a telephone box by a werewolf, but he stayed cool and zap - just fantastic."

Ch.10 "The Rogue Bludger" - Lockhart gets Harry to act out a scene where he (GL) threw a werewolf to the ground (yeah right Gilderoy), held him down, and did the Homorphus Charm: "I then screwed up my remaining strength and performed the immensely complex Homorphus Charm ... the fur vanished, the fangs shrank, and he turned back into a man. Simple yet effective - and another village will remember me forever as the hero who delivered them from the monthly terror of werewolf attacks ... Homework - compose a poem about my defeat of the Wagga Wagga werewolf!"

Ch. 16 "The Chamber of Secrets" - "No one wants to read about some ugly old Armenian warlock, even if he did save a village from werewolves."

Ch.17 "The Heir of Slytherin" - Riddle taunting Harry: "Hagrid, in trouble every other week, trying to raise werewolf cubs under his bed". This quote can be discounted, as JKR said in an interview that it was just Riddle lying to Harry to upset him - there aren't any "werewolf cubs" as such. (I just mentioned it in case anyone wondered about it.)

OK, let's sum up. Lockhart has a whole book about werewolves. There seem to be up to four separate incidents from this book mentioned in CoS - (1) one werewolf in an area with a telephone box, presumably a built-up area; (2) one werewolf Lockhart performed the Homorphus Charm on; (3) one werewolf Lockhart defeated in Wagga Wagga (New South Wales, Australia); (4) more than one werewolf in Armenia (Eastern Europe). It's possible that either (2)&(3) or (2)&(4) are the same, but that's by no means definite.

Also, event (2) frankly sounds like someone spinning a yarn - if the Homorphus Charm is "immensely complex" it can hardly also be "Simple yet effective", can it?

An additional point from OotP - Arthur Weasley talking about the werewolf says "poor fellow, no cure at all", but Lupin "finds the condition quite easy to manage" so presumably St Mungo's don't know a permanent cure.

I'd still vote for the theories that you can't rely on anything Lockhart says he's done, and that you can't cure werewolves permanently at the current state of magical knowledge with a Homorphus Charm or anything else.

Darn, this post has turned out to be far longer than I expected. Oh well. :)

Looks like the post you quoted got deleted. I hate when they erase posts tha I put a lot of work into. (unlike this one).
Actually, Morgoth found the post. It's post 120. But when I clicked on this thread, the last thread was that post. There were no more afterwards. Then I posted and I looked up and the post the I had quoted wasn't there. The only thing I can think of is my browser showed me a cached page. But I don't know why it would as it hadn't before. Oh well, I'll get back on topic.

Snorkack--He was referencing his "bank" feats, his best ones. He mentioned the witch who banished the Bandon Banshee and the Bandon Banshee is one of his signature saves. His signature save (his most exciting and credit-taking story) for werewolves is Wagga Wagga and this is a village that he saved fromthe monthly plight of werewolf attacks. He went to his most memorable examples and explained why (in his mind) the books would have been less worthy of marketing and purchase if they'd attributed the feats to the real owners. The implication and pretty obvious because this is the werewolf story he loves the best is that that "old Armenian warlock" is the one responsible for the phonebooth save in Wagga Wagga.

Snorkack--He was referencing his "bank" feats, his best ones. He mentioned the witch who banished the Bandon Banshee and the Bandon Banshee is one of his signature saves. His signature save (his most exciting and credit-taking story) for werewolves is Wagga Wagga and this is a village that he saved fromthe monthly plight of werewolf attacks. He went to his most memorable examples and explained why (in his mind) the books would have been less worthy of marketing and purchase if they'd attributed the feats to the real owners. The implication and pretty obvious because this is the werewolf story he loves the best is that that "old Armenian warlock" is the one responsible for the phonebooth save in Wagga Wagga.

Not convinced, I'm afraid - unless the old Armenian warlock had emigrated to Australia, they're not the same. Looking back at the text last night, it wasn't even clear that the Homorphus Charm save and the Wagga Wagga save were meant to be the same (I cut out a few lines about the bell ringing etc in that quote - where the ellipses are - to save typing). And the phonebooth incident was just a throwaway line unconnected to the others.

After all, if he's got a whole book full of werewolf stories, that's gotta be a lot of werewolves. :)

Australia--There's a Wagga Wagga Australia?:huh: I read the section over and he was talking about his biggest most impressive feats. His favorites are the Bandon Banshee and this Wagga Wagga Werewolf. Those were his cover stories for those books. He specifically identifies the witch who banish the Bandon Banshee. The inference isn't much and the strethc isn't far to consider that the Armenian dude's feat is the Wagga Wagga incident.

Ron I do not understand because he fixated on Lupin's being a werewolf in spite of two much more troubling and relevant accusations that Hermione had made which would make Lupin much more dangerous than he is solely as a werewolf.

As I said, Ron simply fixated on the accusation Lupin had just confirmed. Perhaps Ron's problem with Lupin isn't so much that he's a werewolf as the fact that he's willing to admit it, and might even be proud of it. I think Ron's reaction is basically the same as Hermione saying she wished she'd outed Lupin.

Which Ron would get from what? It just cost Lupin all the self-control he had to admit it. Surely Ron can't be thick enough to consider that odd shiver a tremor of pleasure and pride? CAN he?:grumble:

'...performed the immensly complicated homorphus charm - he let out a piteous moan - go on Harry - higher than that - good - the fur vanished - the fangs shrank - and he turned back into a man.' IN COS, p 122 Uk, Lockhart is telling the class about how he rescued a village from a werewolf. It seems from this that he turned the werewolf back into a man. Of course, he was a fraud, but didn't he say that he just took credit for what other people did, so the general story must have been something like that. So many people would have been reading his books that I don't think that he could have made up a charm like that. So why doesn't the MOM, who appear to hate werewolfs so much, try and get the charm put on all the werewolves instead of writing acts and things against them? And if they already do so, then why isnt Lupin treated, or werewolves in St. Mungo's treated? I know it's meant to be a very complex spell, but I'm sure that there are some very good wizards in Britan who would be able to do this spell. I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this, becuase it's really annoying me!

I think the obvious suggestion is that it isn't a cure for werewolves.

If it was, they would use it. It's not just in the werewolf's interest, after all, is it? And it's been said that their is no cure, and people would know because the information isn't witheld if it was published in a book.

That doesn't mean that the charm doesn't exist, it's just that we don't know what it does. But I'm very sure it isn't a cure, for the reasons said above. Perhaps it's the same thing we saw done to Pettigrew, when they forced him into a human shape? Perhaps it's just a temporary shape shifter, giving time to cart him off somewhere safe away from people, or one that might harm werewolves if used, since the transformation is an unusual one. It never said he cured him, only that he helped the locals.

Well wasn't Lockhart a fraud? Maybe he made that part up to make himself look good. If there was such a charm, then you are right, Lupin would be cured, unless Lockhart is the only one who knows the charm, which is highly unlikely.

I agree with Dedalus. It isn't stated anywhere in any definite way that the Homorphus Charm cured that werewolf. Lockhart goes from performing the charm to the end of the tale without saying what happened in between.

I also agree that it sounds as though it could be the charm they used in the Shrieking Shack to force Peter Pettigrew to become human. Animagi can transform at will, but werewolves are forced to change by the full moon so this charm might only change them for long enough to, say, stun them (it might take more effort to use magic on the person in wolf form, the human shape is less powerful) or something like that.

It's jumping to conclusions a bit to say it must be some miraculous cure just because it helped the residents.

As near as I can tell what Lockhart says he can do can really be done, just not by Lockhart. My assumption was that whomever actually preformed the charm invented it himself recently, but did not teach it to anyone ( or extremely few). When lockhart did the memory charm he destroyed any recollection of how to do the charm. And with it being new, not too many knew about it anyway.

Maybe it's just an error in the books. However, it seems a little odd that of all the malicious magical creatures Lockhart yammered on about defeating, we readers would have been told multiple times about the werewolves. Maybe the Homorphus Charm will come into play again. I imagine it might take a while for even a skilled researcher to verify it, especially since Lockhart and the Armenian warlock both have a bad case of amnesia.

-Mierin Eronaile

I think that if werewolves were mentioned a lot of COS it was to foreshadow POA.

How could it just have been an error in the books? She didn't even describe what the Homorphus Charm did, whether it cured the werewolf at all, so what would the mistake be?

As near as I can tell what Lockhart says he can do can really be done, just not by Lockhart. My assumption was that whomever actually preformed the charm invented it himself recently, but did not teach it to anyone ( or extremely few). When lockhart did the memory charm he destroyed any recollection of how to do the charm. And with it being new, not too many knew about it anyway.

.... Not that we even know what it did exactly. I think it's possible if not likely that it was never a cure. It was certainly never described as one.

Well I am making the assumption that if we can guess what the charm does, that it is a cure. I am not claming that i know what it does, but looking at it as if Lockharts other stories are true then someone did do the things he claims, just not him. That sets a pattern: Lockharts stories are true, just that he was not the person to do those things. So if the pattern remains true, Someone did the charm, as Lockhart does imply, to cure a warewolf. but who knows really as unreliable as Lockhart is, and that was before he ended up at St muggos.

So if the pattern remains true, Someone did the charm, as Lockhart does imply, to cure a warewolf.

That's not true. The question isn't about whether the charm was really performed, it's about what it actually did. All Lockhart said was that it solved the community's werewolf problem. There is more than one way to do that. He didn't say it cured the werewolf.

Take this scenario for instance:

The Homorphus Charm is the same charm that was placed on Peter Pettigrew in the Shrieking Shack. It causes people (perhaps just humans) who can take two forms to assume their original form. Werewolves are forced by the full moon to take the wolf shape, so performing this charm on werewolves doesn't last long enough before the full moon transforms them back again to, say, use it as a treatment. It would, however, last long enough to stun or otherwise restrain the werewolf in their weaker and less magic resistant shape.

So the Wagga Wagga Werewolf couldn't be taken down while in wolf form. He was too powerful. The Homorphus Charm was performed. He changed into a human, was stunned or something, and taken by the Australian version of the Ministry of Magic. Hey presto, the community was saved from their monthly werewolf terror!

I don't see how my scenario is so unbelievable that nobody ever agrees with it (except Dedalus). It seems more believable to me right now than a not-so-mystery werewolf cure that somehow nobody thought of :p

I agree with you, Cat, if it means anything.

Let me make an analogy to real life. Lycanthropy is probably among the worst diseases in the magical world. Pick a comparable disease in real life (AIDS, cancer, Parkison's, Alzheimers, and many more) and imagine that a large celebrity (say, Martha Stewart) mentioned in passing in a bestseller book that she had a cure for it. The book is read by millions - and what happens?

I would doubt that it would be headline news. I'm sure, however, that it would be mentioned, and challenged. Such a visible claim for a cure to such a visible disease would surely make all readers look twice, right? A few of the millions of a readers would be doctors, right? Well, if it was truly a cure, the doctors would think to themselves, do a quick think about the claimed cure and quickly assess (in a few seconds) if the claim was possibly true. If the claim could at all be true, they would look into it.

The same would happen here. If the Homorphus charm could be used to cure werewolves, then one Healer of the many Lockhart readers would think quickly about if this could possibly be true, and if it could be, follow up.

But it obviously wasn't followed up, as there still are werewolves. Therefore, the Homorphus Charm can't be a cure. And there are many possibly explanations for Lockharts claim without it being a cure, Cat's explanation above being a fine and impeccable example.

Now , i am not debating what is the answer, just the possibilities. Your idea is a good one and could be true. I am just suggesting the alternative. Eirther way could be it, we just do not have enough information to be sure. It does not say in POA for sure that they used the Homorphus Charm on him. Homorphus Charm could be specific to werewolves or it could be a general charm and was used in POA. I know that he didn't say it, but with his ego and past he is implying it. Whether the warewolf came back who knows? Maybe Lockhart does not even know? But you can bet he wants everyone to think he knows the cure wheter ot not it exists.

I disagree with this. We're saying that the charm is strong enough to change him back into a human being for the rest of one night so he can be contained? How is the full moon's power counteracted one night and not the next. Turning the Wagga Wagga Werewolf back into a man is what saved the community from werewolf attacks, not what happened after the werewolf was turned back into a man.

Well, take Cat's example - say the Homorphus Charm is what made Pettigrew human. Pettigrew could still change back later, like the werewolf the month afterwards. It was just for the one time.

After all, most likely what the moon does is turn someone into a werewolf - not keep them in that state.

But if it was just for the one time, wouldn't performing the charm under cloudcover mean that the next time the moon peeked out from behind the clouds BOOM the werewolf's back! How does that even remotely help the situation?

The moon is constantly being covered by clouds, but werewolves aren't popping backwards and forwards. Perhaps it just needs the rising moon to trigger it. In the Prisoner of Azkaban we saw a shifting cloud, but that could have just been dramatic effect. The moon could have fully "risen" at that point, too.

I like He'sdead's analogy - to take someone famous from this world, and say they found a cure for a serious illness in a book of theirs. Would people not know of it? Would it go over people's heads?

True, we don't know what this charm does and there's loads of possibilities, but a cure isn't really one of them, considering that -

1) The wizarding world isn't that thick. If something is mentioned in a popular book by a famous wizard, and probably mentioned in other books, someone would have gone "Oh yeah!" before now. Whether it's rare or complicated or not isn't important - someone would have followed it up, if it was a possible cure.
2) It's been said many times that there is no cure. And top healers aren't stupid, either.
3) It wouldn't just be prejudice towards werewolves stopping any information, because it'd be the prejudiced ones probably most anxious to find a cure (besides the werewolf themself). It's in everybody's interest whether a cure for werewolves is found, not just the werewolf's own.

So with this horrible wizarding "illness", people frightened of it, lots of top wizards and healers probably working on it - do you really think everyone would overlook this one?

I think it's safe to say it isn't a cure, for all those reasons and more, and easier to imagine what else this charm could do instead.

I do like the idea of it being the spell that brought Pettigrew back to his human self, temporarily. I can imagine a spell called the 'Homorphus Charm' doing that to him.

Since it sounds as if the Homorphous charm brought the villagers lasting relief "from the monthly terror of werewolf attacks" I think we need to consider another possibility: The charm "turns a live werewolf into a dead human" as one of the fanfics I've read suggested.

also.. remember lockhart was telling the story... this might not even be a true charm.. im sure DD would have tried it on Lupin if it was real

Once again--Lockhart is a liar--in that he takes credit for the work of others--but he's meticulous in his fabrication construction and he even identified the Armenian wizard (by appearance) who was responsible for the Wagga Wagga save.

But if it was just for the one time, wouldn't performing the charm under cloudcover mean that the next time the moon peeked out from behind the clouds BOOM the werewolf's back! How does that even remotely help the situation?
Sure, the werewolf would come back next month. But there would be 30 days until the next month (or actually around twenty eight, as moon months are shorter). In the meantime, the werewolf-in-human-form could easily be killed. In Britain werewolves are treated well, comparably. I would suspect that in some places of the world (such as the backwoods that the Wagga Wagga Werewolf surely was) werewolves would often be killed.

I agree with all those who say it's to stop a werewolf from changing or reverting back to its human state as Homo means man and morph means to change form. So the charm worked once to revert the werewolf back to human form. Charms don't tend to last for more than one term, I think it's hexes that lingers on.

Lockhart probably just made up the end of the story, because it is said a lot of times that there is no cure for a werewolf and the wolfsbane potion is a new invention.

Lockhart probably just made up the end of the story, because it is said a lot of times that there is no cure for a werewolf and the wolfsbane potion is a new invention.
One suggestion in a fanfic (Lady deMimsy's Order of the Phoenix and the Purloined Prophetess, see the Flourish & Blotts fanfic forum in CoS, recommended) makes sense: perhaps the Homorphus Charm turns a live werewolf into a dead human. In which case, although it's certainly useful for rescuing the citizens of Wagga Wagga, it's not that much help to the werewolf.

I think that even if there is a cure for being a werewolf, that DD might not want to use it. Having a werewolf as a ally could be a very big asset. I think Lupin's "disease" will play a large role in the next two books.

I think that even if there is a cure for being a werewolf, that DD might not want to use it. Having a werewolf as a ally could be a very big asset. I think Lupin's "disease" will play a large role in the next two books.
I don't know how you see DD, but I don't think he would let Lupin suffer just because he's useful as a werewolf.

One suggestion in a fanfic (Lady deMimsy's Order of the Phoenix and the Purloined Prophetess, see the Flourish & Blotts fanfic forum in CoS, recommended) makes sense: perhaps the Homorphus Charm turns a live werewolf into a dead human. In which case, although it's certainly useful for rescuing the citizens of Wagga Wagga, it's not that much help to the werewolf.
Well, that makes sense! But if the spell's so difficult, why don't you just shoot the werewolf? It's much easier :scared:

Well, that makes sense! But if the spell's so difficult, why don't you just shoot the werewolf? It's much easier

Because to a wizard, the wand is the first, last and only weapon of choice. When Sirius escaped the Daily Prophet reported that the muggles had been told he was carrying a gun, "... a type of wand Muggles use to kill each other." In OoP Kingsley Shacklebolt, who can't exactly be thick seeing as he's an Auror, refers to Arthur Weasley's "firelegs" report, though I am of course willing to recognise that he may have been acting the fool to give himself an opportunity to talk.

Now if the 'silver bullet' method still holds true in the Potterverse, I can imagine there are a couple of licensed shooters in the Auror department, maybe as part of a specialist team (a la SWAT or the Met's SO13). But your average non-muggle-born spell-chucker wouldn't know what a gun was even if you handed them a book called "All About Guns".

There is also the possibility that the Homorphus charm was a relatively new discovery by the witch/wizard that used it. The workings of it could be lost due to Lockhart's memory charm on that person.

Mags

Or, of course, it was an 'accidental' discovery - first spell that came to mind while the poor bloke was trying to avoid becoming supper ;)

Because to a wizard, the wand is the first, last and only weapon of choice ... Now if the 'silver bullet' method still holds true in the Potterverse, I can imagine there are a couple of licensed shooters in the Auror department, maybe as part of a specialist team (a la SWAT or the Met's SO13). But your average non-muggle-born spell-chucker wouldn't know what a gun was even if you handed them a book called "All About Guns".
That sounds about right - even Tonks (who has a muggleborn parent) seemed a bit clueless about what Muggle houses would be like when she was helping Harry pack in Privet Drive.

It's difficult to think of a clear-cut example of a wizard in canon using a weapon other than a wand in normal wizarding combat. OK, Hagrid keeps his crossbow handy while in the Forest - but then he's not really very good at magic. Harry uses Gryffindor's sword in a pinch - but that was a thousand-year-old antique, and came to him after he'd lost his wand. And occasionally the kids are angry enough to just abandon their wands and start a normal punch-up, but generally they're firing spells at each other.

The only example that springs to mind offhand is from Quidditch Through the Ages - the "attempted decapitation of a Keeper with a broadsword" during the first extremely violent World Cup Final. Generally, wizards are assumed to be so ignorant that in the PoA passage you quoted, guns have to be explained to them in baby-talk.

I was thinking that maybe some blood of a vampire will cure him. Maybe JKR will take some ideas from Van Hellsing. Haha.

also.. remember lockhart was telling the story... this might not even be a true charm.. im sure DD would have tried it on Lupin if it was real

Not if it doesn't actually literally cure werewolves. The loose way it was worded allows several alternatives.

Anyway, I'm a bit iffy on the idea of Lupin being cured. I mean, I love the character to bits and I want the best for him, but at the same time it could be like saying 'Oh, it's alright, people get better in the end' when you think in terms of what Professor Lupin represents. People don't always just get better.

Anyway, I think society in general (and the Ministry of Magic in particular) should make some changes. Lupin isn't the root of the problem. Letting Lupin be cured could just be letting people get away with how he's had to live all his life.

The Homorphus Charm was probably one of Lockhart's inventions-maybe he claimed he'd invented it,and it was as phony as everything about him.At that point of time Harry didn't know Professor Lupin,so he wouldn't really have cared about the charm just then.And given that Lupin did say that there was no cure for him,and the Wolfsbane Potion was a recent discovery,I'd say the Homorphus is definitely phony.

Anyway, I think society in general (and the Ministry of Magic in particular) should make some changes. Lupin isn't the root of the problem. Letting Lupin be cured could just be letting people get away with how he's had to live all his life.

I agree with Cat.Remus Lupin's lycanthropy is not the problem here,it's the ordinary wizarding community's attitude to it.Curing him at the end wouldn't force people to confront the injustice that was done to him as a werewolf-it's bad enough that he had to deal with the physical trauma of his transformations roght from his childhood,but the way people in general reacted to his condition would have done enough to add insult to injury.It was as if people decided that getting bitten by a werewolf makes a wizard bad as a human,too-and it's their loss.Maybe a course on better understanding of werewolves is in order here.

Yes, I agree with you and Cat, Drusilla. By curing Lupin, sure, Lupin's off the hook and doesn't have to face further prejudice or injustice, but that doesn't help other werewolves who haven't been cured, and, most importantly, it doesn't help change society's attitude towards werewolves. People have to be shown that they are being unfair and cruel in their lack of acceptance of 'half-breeds' such as Lupin.

I just hope that there's some way to solve the problem, or begin solving it, without sacrificing Lupin! :upset:

I agree that Lupin probably won't be cured. The homorphus charm makes it sound so easy, it would be really strange if no one would have tried it on him if the charm was possible.

I agree with the symbolic thing as well. I think that the furthest Lupin has/will come towards being cured is the wolfsbane potion - and that in itself is a huge achievement.

When I read PoA before having read OotP, I always got the impression that the Wolfsbane potion - if given within a certain short period of time after being bitten, cured the person completely. But after reading the talk with the werewolf at St. Mungo's, I realised that that wasn't the case.

Lupin explained Wolfsbane admirably well. It's a foul tasting mixture which, when ingested the week of the full moon (and promptly each day of the full moon--that is, the day before, the day of, and the day after the full moon) allows Lupin to retain his sense of self and curl up harmlessly in his office or house or whatever and be tame. The problem is, of course, that Lupin is an abysmal potion brewer and has admitted as much.

Again I have to emphasize that there is absolutely nothing simple about what that Armenian warlock did. He allowed himself to be trapped in a phone booth with a transformed werewolf and without getting bitten, managed to restrain the beast, put his wand up to its throat and perform a charm that was both very powerful and very complex in a few seconds. This spell fully transformed the werewolf back into a man while the moon was still full--essentially reversing the effects of his condition--curing him. The only similar spell we've ever seen is the one Remus and Sirius used on Peter. Again--let me remind everyone that the transforming spell that forced Peter to show himself required the power of both remaining Marauders who we know to be very dedicated and powerful wizards. Whatever this Armenian did took a lot of guts, knowledge, and power (and a willingness to sacrifice himself--if it didn't work he'd either be dead or a werewolf himself--do you honestly think ANY healer would take that chance with his or her own life for a stranger, or even a friend?).

When it's put like that, it makes sense that the Homorphus Charm isn't used regularly - I don't think I'd volunteer to perform it on a fully grown werewolf, in any case. Anyway, I'm still sticking with the idea that once the charm was performed on the werewolf, it was killed before the next full moon.

I wonder why the healers don't make the Wolfsbane potion like a prescriptive drug or something, so that a werewolf does not have to rely upon his own devices to brew it? Is it just because of the idea that werewolves are instinctively evil, whether in wolf form or not, so people don't even want to help them? Or perhaps there just aren't enough resources for the healers to provide Wolfsbane potion for all the werewolves in England. I suppose there are few people who would be as talented as Snape is in the field of Potions, so it may just be that there are not enough people who are able to make the Wolfsbane potion I guess. :(

I agree with Jordmundt's last post (wow, I agreed with you for a change!).

Pardon me if this has already been said: the Homorphus charm appears to be a temporary effect, not a permanent one. If it was a permanent cure, Lupin would have known about it. But he said there is no cure, so I think it is safe to say that the Homorphus charm only has a temporary effect -- perhaps for the duration of the night, or the current full moon -- or perhaps the werewolf dies soon after being transformed back into a man. There really isn't a lot of information to go on, but that's as much as I can draw on with any confidence.

All the talk about silver bullets have led me to thinking about another idea: conjuring a silver bullet and magically driving it into the werewolf? Would this be feasible? The propelling force would have to be considerable, but I think it could be done. The question is, how effective. If conjured items only exist temporarily, it might not have any effect at all.

As for shooting a werewolf with a gun, I agree with Pilum that most wizards wouldn't know how to operate a gun. Even if someone did know how to operate a gun, it would take a lot of skill and level-headedness to be able to fire a weapon accurately at a ferocious werewolf charging for your throat. If you consider things like the Tueller Drill (ie. a knife-wielding man and a gun-wielding man with pistol at low-ready position, at 21 feet apart, the knife man can stab the gunman before being shot), the chances of even seasoned combat shooter being able to hit a werewolf at close-quarters without getting bitten seems very remote. Perhaps if the shooter had a sniper rifle, sitting on top of a tall tower. :p

If there was a cure, would there be any logic reason to let Lupin continue being a werewolf?

Perhaps the homorphus charm is not only temporary but also very painful!

One thing I was thinking about was that Lockhart said (as far as I remember) that he rescued the city from the monthly terror of the werewolf... so he couldn't have used a charm that is just temporary... any explainations for that?

Lockhart frizzles the memories of other people and uses their stories to further his own wealth and fame. He is just as capable of embellishing his stories.

I would trust Lupin's word more than Lockhart's stories. So going by that belief, the Homorphous Charms is either temporary, or it eventually kills the werewolf (either after turning him back into a human, or it changes back to human form after dying).

One thing I was thinking about was that Lockhart said (as far as I remember) that he rescued the city from the monthly terror of the werewolf... so he couldn't have used a charm that is just temporary... any explainations for that?

He could have been charmed long enough to transport him from the village, to which he didn't return. There. Village saved.

He could have been an ordinary Muggle before he was bitten by a werewolf, and very confused. Maybe everything was explained to him and he emerged from the encounter better prepared than before :D. Perhaps he did still live in the village but was safely locked in a cellar or somewhere every full moon afterwards. There again - no full moon horror for the villagers.

I'm defending this argument vigorously because I'm worried that, if asked, J. K. Rowling would reply that Lockhart just made it up, that being the easiest answer that everybody would understand. I prefer complicated explanations :D.

I prefer complicated explanations :D.

So do I, thanks! I somehow didn't think of that!

Ditto, make for far better discussions, eh Cat?

I still think it's perfectly likely that once the Homorphus Charm has turned the werewolf back into human form, the werewolf is either

a) killed by the effects of the charm as it would disrupt his biological process - you know... howling. And stuff. Yes. (If you can't tell, I haven't completely thought this one through!)

b) killed by angry villagers/very lucky Armenian wizard - a werewolf like Lupin who generally isn't in any danger of attacking people because of the precautions he takes is still likely to be regarded more highly, despite the prejudices of wizards, than a werewolf who goes on a killing rampage each month. If the villagers had lost relatives or friends, they were unlikely to be sympathetic to the werewolf - I am of the opinion that as soon as they were in control, they probable killed him on the spot, or at least before the next full moon, sad as it may seem.

I think that this charm must kill the werewolf it is applied to, otherwise someone would have used it on Lupin long ago to rid him of being a werewolf. I don't think DD would have let him stay a werewolf if he could have helped him. If this charm turned him back human, it could have been corrected when he was Hogwarts and noone would have known his secret.

It just seems to easy to perform the charm and he is no longer a werewolf, if it was that easy to correct noone would fear being bitten by a werewolf. Or at least that is my humble opionion on the matter.

Yes but FB also said that no Basilisk has been sighted in England for over 400 years. And we all know that's not true. So maybe there really is a cure, but it's like really rare or something.

Well the only person to see the Basilisk died so it makes sense that it's not in FB...

I think that this charm must kill the werewolf it is applied to, otherwise someone would have used it on Lupin long ago to rid him of being a werewolf. by a werewolf. Or at least that is my humble opionion on the matter.


Not if it's only temporary.

Werewolves might be like dragons - almost impervious to magic. It could be easier to change them into humans, if only briefly, then zap them.

Think of this as well - why would a werewolf be running wild at the full moon? A) He's confused and doesn't know what's happening to him or b) he doesn't care who he bites. If it's the former, then things could be explained by kind people and then, presumably, it wouldn't happen again. If it's the latter he could have been arrested.

Basically, there are so many ways to explain what Lockhart described without the werewolf in the story being cured. I supposed the werewolf being killed is one of them, though.

If there was a cure for being a werewolf people would've tried it before and most likely Lupin would've never became a werewolf in the first place or it would've been very rare if he did..
Plus someone was bound to have found out something that could be like a cure..
And knowing how Lupin hates being a werewolf, he would've tried anything and everything in his power as long as he knew it wouldn't hurt those around him.

If there was a cure for being a werewolf people would've tried it before and most likely Lupin would've never became a werewolf in the first place or it would've been very rare if he did..
Plus someone was bound to have found out something that could be like a cure..
And knowing how Lupin hates being a werewolf, he would've tried anything and everything in his power as long as he knew it wouldn't hurt those around him.

I agree, if there was a permanent cure Lupin would use it!
There would have been no reason in letting him be a werewolf for thirty years or more!
Even if it just had a tomporary effect, I think they'd use it on every werewolf instead of wolfsbane potion!

I still think that the charm harms or even kills the werewolf!

Even if Lupin were cured, he would still likely be judged for having once been a werewolf because the magical community does not look favourably towards change. There will always be Umbridges and Snapes in the world.

Maybe it wasn't exactly a cure for werewolfry. I doubt there is one. It could be a spell that forces somebody to change back into their human shape, like the spell they cast on 'Scabbers'. I don't know what could have happened to the werewolf after that. In that instant a werewolf could be captured, knocked out or killed.

I would suspect from the name that this is an accurate speculation. Homorphus comes from the latin word homo meaning man and the greek morphus meaning change, so I expect it's simply a one-time change from wolf-form (Crinos for you Werewolf: the Apocalypse types) to human.

Couldn't they use Beladonna? That seems like a werewolf cure. But, it's not my story...

I would suspect from the name that this is an accurate speculation. Homorphus comes from the latin word homo meaning man and the greek morphus meaning change, so I expect it's simply a one-time change from wolf-form (Crinos for you Werewolf: the Apocalypse types) to human.
Judging from this bit of information (good job by the way), it seems like if you perform the Homorphus Charm on a werewolf, he will change back into a man for that time only. At the next full moon, I would expect he would still transform into a werewolf. The Homorphus charm would have to be performed again to change him back into a man. Also, I somehow got the impression that the spell was rather painful.

If the Homorphus Charm was a permanent cure for lycanthropy, I think the Marauders would have tried to use it, since they would probably be the only ones who wouldn't have been afraid to get near Lupin in his werewolf form. Either that, or one of the members of the Order would have tried it.

:welcome: I'm going to try to wake this thread up because I'm utterly convinced that Lupin will end up cured by the end of Book 7. First of all, Jo mentions the cure of the Wagga Wagga Werewolf more than once: in class, and again the tunnel leading to the Chamber. She didn't remind us of it by accident; she wanted us to remember Lockhart had claimed to cure a werewolf. Next, Lockhart said that a warlock really cured the Wagga Wagga werewolf when he was coming clean to the kids, because he thought he was about to wipe their memories, and so he felt there was absolutely no harm in telling the truth. He had no motive to lie at that point; he was not puffing his own accomplishments, he was admitting he had no accomplishments other than really good memory charms. Why would he puff the accomplishments of some Armenian warlock? Had the cure been a hoax, or a one-time thing, I'm sure he would have told the kids he stole a cure that didn't even work, because what was the harm? They weren't supposed to remember what he said 30 seconds later. Next, I think it's entirely plausible that the old Armenian warlock found a cure for lycanthropy (maybe the werewolf was a relative, so he had reason to create a cure). To be credible for his public, Lockhart would have needed to learn to do it, though he certainly could not have performed the spell himself ;). So, if Lockhart ever regains his memory, it is possible that he could teach Harry or someone else how to perform the spell.

Yes, I read over most of this thread, not all 7 pages but more than half, and I see lots of people with arguments against Lupin being cured. The most compelling to me is the name of the charm: maybe it really is the same spell used on Peter, so maybe it is a one-time thing, rather than a complete cure. But that's just a maybe based on a maybe, and I've presented evidence based on the text of the book. So, any additional thoughts?

If there really is a cure out there, don't we think that Lupin would already have heard about it? He is a pretty intelligent fellow, after all...plus, if the cure was mentioned that prominently in a Lockheart book, wouldn't people have already found out about the cure and put it into effect? We know that Lockheart's works are popular and that wizards tend to fear werewolves, so one would assume that if he came out with a werewolf cure, people would've started using it immediately...

:welcome: I'm going to try to wake this thread up because I'm utterly convinced that Lupin will end up cured by the end of Book 7. First of all, Jo mentions the cure of the Wagga Wagga Werewolf more than once: in class, and again the tunnel leading to the Chamber. She didn't remind us of it by accident; she wanted us to remember Lockhart had claimed to cure a werewolf. Next, Lockhart said that a warlock really cured the Wagga Wagga werewolf when he was coming clean to the kids, because he thought he was about to wipe their memories, and so he felt there was absolutely no harm in telling the truth. He had no motive to lie at that point; he was not puffing his own accomplishments, he was admitting he had no accomplishments other than really good memory charms. Why would he puff the accomplishments of some Armenian warlock? Had the cure been a hoax, or a one-time thing, I'm sure he would have told the kids he stole a cure that didn't even work, because what was the harm? They weren't supposed to remember what he said 30 seconds later. Next, I think it's entirely plausible that the old Armenian warlock found a cure for lycanthropy (maybe the werewolf was a relative, so he had reason to create a cure). To be credible for his public, Lockhart would have needed to learn to do it, though he certainly could not have performed the spell himself ;). So, if Lockhart ever regains his memory, it is possible that he could teach Harry or someone else how to perform the spell.

Yes, I read over most of this thread, not all 7 pages but more than half, and I see lots of people with arguments against Lupin being cured. The most compelling to me is the name of the charm: maybe it really is the same spell used on Peter, so maybe it is a one-time thing, rather than a complete cure. But that's just a maybe based on a maybe, and I've presented evidence based on the text of the book. So, any additional thoughts?Well, somethng I've argued before (hopefully not in this thread, I didn't read over the whole thing) - I don't think the mentions of the Armenian warlock and the Wagga Wagga werewolf refer to the same incident, and I suspect that Lockhart's mention of the Homorphus Charm may well be nonsense.

In class, Lockhart makes Harry act out a scene from one of his books where he uses the Homorphus Charm to rid a village of a werewolf (singular), then sets homework to compose a poem about his defeat of the Wagga Wagga werewolf (also singular). He doesn't say "write a poem about what you've just heard" - no suggestion they are actually the same story, it sounds more like this is a separate incident from his book that he wants the class to read about. After all, he's written a whole book about his (supposed) dealings with werewolves.

Later (when Harry and Ron go to tell him they know where the Chamber is) he mentions an ugly Armenian warlock who saved a village from werewolves (plural). Again, that doesn't mean that it's meant to be one of the same incidents as mentioned before. In fact, since Wagga Wagga is in Australia, not Armenia, it almost certainly isn't that one.

I also noticed (when checking just now) that the rest of what Lockhart had to say in the lessons described sounded rather fishy as well - in the sense that the details sound like bull even if they are loosely based on real events. A vampire unable to eat anything but lettuce since Lockhart dealt with him? Trapping a ghoul with a tea-strainer? Pouncing on a werewolf and holding him down one-handed while casting the Homorphus Charm? Yeah, pull the other one Gilderoy, it's got a bellringing charm on. :)

So I reckon that the Homorphus Charm business may be just Lockhart spinning a yarn to gullible second-years (well, his entire teaching was him spinning a yarn, after all).

The idea that it's the same charm Remus and Sirius used on Pettigrew is a pretty good call, as is the idea that if you do it on a werewolf it kills them (if the wizard in the real incident actually "saved the village from the monthly terror"). But if it was a permanent cure, I'd expect that the Werewolf Capture Unit would use it as standard procedure and lycanthropy would have been pretty much eliminated by now.

Even if Gilderoy was telling the truth about a charm like that existing...who would want to approach a fully grown werwolf...hold it by the neck and single handledly put a charm on it?

Unless they have taken the wolfsbane potion...however, I woud believe that somebody would have the sense to approach a werewolf who was still in control of himself...and try the Homorphus Charm..see what kind of effect it has on the individual...this is the charm that Sirius and Lupin used on Pettirgrew to change him from animagus to human...correct?
Well, we know that that wasnt perminant...so why should we assume it would be permanent on a werewolf?

I'll accept that Lockhart is lying in class when discussing werewolves and everything else. But what is his motive to lie to the boys about convincing the warlock to give him the werewolf cure before wiping his memory, when he's about to wipe their memories too? That (and the multiple mentions of the cure on Jo's part) are really my sticking points.

Lockhart most likely made it up or he exagurated alot.

You know, when I was looking at all the book mistakes on mugglenet. com, i saw they didn't put that one. Anyways, I believe that if there was a cure for Lupin, a real one mind you that didn't just make him go back to human form for awhile, then it would have been done. I think with Lockhart, that spell was made up by a powerful witch or wizard. So when people read his books knowing that there wasn't a cure for a werewolf, they just assumed he was so powerful that he could make up a spell powerful enough to turn a werewolf back into a human forever. Which is what Lockhart claimed to have done. He said he cured that town of the monthly attacks of the werewolf. ok said my peice. but i think that if lupin was meant to be cured, it would have happened by now.

Well the only ones who are likely to know of a cure for werewolves is most likely Dumbeldore or Voldemort. So if Lupin is killed, Prehaps Voldemort offers him a cure for a price. But Lupin refuses and therefore dies.

This is the theory I've got in my mind:

1. Werewolves can only be killed by silver, right?

THEN

2. Wormtail says "screw you" to Voldemort once the fighting gets rough.
3. Lupin starts coming at Voldemort
4. Voldemort blasts Wormtail, but pieces of Wormtail's hand fly and hit Lupin, seriously injuring or killing him.

Even if Gilderoy was telling the truth about a charm like that existing...who would want to approach a fully grown werwolf...hold it by the neck and single handledly put a charm on it?

Unless they have taken the wolfsbane potion...however, I woud believe that somebody would have the sense to approach a werewolf who was still in control of himself...and try the Homorphus Charm..see what kind of effect it has on the individual...this is the charm that Sirius and Lupin used on Pettirgrew to change him from animagus to human...correct?
Well, we know that that wasnt perminant...so why should we assume it would be permanent on a werewolf?

Good point.

If this charm can really cure werewolves, I expect to see Lupin curedof lythcantropy. But it hasn't happened. Maybe it only transforms the werewolf back into a human and doesn't cure him or her.

You know, honsetly, if I could sit down and ask JK one question, and get a honset, actuall in-depth answer, this would be it. This Homorphus Charm thing has bothered me since I read PoA. Even if the answer was simply "He made it all up".