Hogwarts and Death Eaters' Children

Surely, now that Harry told Dumbledore of the death eaters with chidren at hogwarts, Dumbledore would do something about it? I mean, they could spy on Dumbledore for Voldie, as they are practically beside him.

If I were dumbledore I would suspend them or something.

What do you guys think?

I'm sure Dumbledore will be cautious, but he also is wise, and probably suspected that there were a number of Death-Eaters' children attending Hogwarts before Harry's report.

It's also likely that Dumbledore will see these students' time at Hogwarts as an opportunity to educate them about the reasons the Dark Order isn't a good thing for wizard society. If Dumbledore sent them home, they'd only hear about why the Dark Order is good and the other side is bad. If they stay at Hogwarts, they have more of a chance of deciding to change their ways and join the good side, though there definitely is risk involved in allowing them to stay.

I've been thinking that since the first time I read GoF.

Well, I guess he can't ban their education because of being a Death Eater's child, but you would think he would do something, wouldn't you? I'm guessing that he won't disclose too much information to anyone - good or bad - in the beginning.

He probably won't say anything that would get them suspcious, but would probably keep a very close eye on them, just in case. He'd be warning everyone to be on their guard though, and what with the Ministrys' flat out denial of Voldermorts return he's bound to lose a few credibility points. But he'd be able to make that work to his advantage.

I agree with HogwartsChaplain, he'll try and make them see that there's only pain and misery to gained by seving the Dark Lord, and do his best to get them all fighting for the good guys!

I don't really imagine how can students spy on Dumbledore. :??:

I agree, there are not many things they can do in Hogwarts. spy on Dumbledore, dont think so, highly unlikely

Originally posted by Thayet
Surely, now that Harry told Dumbledore of the death eaters with chidren at hogwarts, Dumbledore would do something about it? I mean, they could spy on Dumbledore for Voldie, as they are practically beside him.

Well, who is to say Dumbledore isn't already doing something about it? He is after all connected to Hogwarts in more ways than just headmaster.

Dumbledore has always said, "Our choices are much more important than our abilities." He probably belives that the Death Eater's children will make their own choices, and Dumbledore wants to educate them to make the right choice and not follow their parents blindly.

Originally posted by Fleur
Dumbledore has always said, "Our choices are much more important than our abilities." He probably belives that the Death Eater's children will make their own choices, and Dumbledore wants to educate them to make the right choice and not follow their parents blindly.

I agree. Maybe Dumbledore wants to TEACH all those STUDENTS ... to be like Snape ... come back to the GOOD SIDE ...and decide where their LOYALITIES lie on the GOOD side .. against Voldie!!!!!

And in my opinion ... Draco might not be as evil as he seems! He just a spoiled little brat and wants to bully people!!! Desparate for ATTENTION!

Originally posted by Fleur
Dumbledore has always said, "Our choices are much more important than our abilities." He probably belives that the Death Eater's children will make their own choices, and Dumbledore wants to educate them to make the right choice and not follow their parents blindly.

I agree entirely. I think at their age, children still have a moral conscience about things and Ddore is probably hoping to play into that. I am sure some death eater kids are beyond reach, but I don't think all of Slytherin house is full of corrupted students.

If Dumbledore suspended a student because their parents were death eaters, it would make that child dislike him and they would be more likely to listen to their parents. The death eaters don't like Dumbledore, and a death eater's child that was suspended might just start to agree with their parents' views even more if Dumbledore did that. I don't think Dumbledore would confront any death eater's child about becoming a spy. If a kid came to Dumbledore, he might suggest different ways to choose your own path, but I doubt that he would take an active role in forcing them to change their opinions and jeopardizing the safety of a student, even if it was for a greater good.

I agree, Divi. I think it's more likely that Dumbledore will help students see what their options are than to actively push them toward a certain course of action. But presenting all the options isn't something that their parents are likely to do. It will take all the faculty to help the students see what consequences may result from varying courses of action-- especially Snape.

A quality that is greatly admirable about Dumbledore is how he tends not to judge people until their actions are proven, although he has, upon occasion, made mistakes. I don't think he'll take any open action against them, nor do I think he'll force them into supporting his own cause. I agree with what's been said: Dumbledore would want to make their opinions crystal-clear to them before they came to the point where they had to choose. Most of them would have no idea of what awaits them on the light side, and only dillusions of the dark; unless their parents were very brave, they wouldn't dare to say anything against Voldemort, even when in (supposed) death. I don't think Dumbledore will really hold it against them if they choose the dark side, as long as they saw something of the light one. And you never know; I expect they'll be a few spies for Dumbledore among them. There can't be plays on one side without there being plays on another.

That brings up an idea I had a long time ago: Draco turning spy for the good side. :angel:

Originally posted by Cho Chang


And in my opinion ... Draco might not be as evil as he seems! He just a spoiled little brat and wants to bully people!!! Desparate for ATTENTION!


Yeah, see the other thread about that - loads of evidence! I think Draco's a goodie :)

I have a question for the person who started the thread. Where did you find that picture underneath your question?

:??:

You can get it in this quiz. Play it like Hermione:
http://pages.prodigy.net/hpdevo/quiz/

Back on topic, these kids haven't done anything wrong. I see no reason Dumbledore should treat them differently. As for being spies, they're kids... Dumbledore isn't divulging his secret plan to anyone. Besides, he probably knew anyway. He's Dumbledore, after all.

Originally posted by Da da da da da86
Dumbledore isn't divulging his secret plan to anyone. Besides, he probably knew anyway. He's Dumbledore, after all.

Definitely.
Dumbledore knows whats going on, Hermione tells Harry and Ron that all the time. Dumbledore will be fair I think, he wouldn't suspend the kids or anything. He wants them to see that there is something that can fight Voldie, he has to show them that there is another way. I'll bet many people joined Voldie cuz they thought there was no way of defeating him and they would be saved if they showed that they were on his side (even if they were good at heart)

I agree that Dumbledore is not one to judge anyone prematurely, and that he'll wait for a person to prove something of themselves to him. He's not going to to place restrictions on these children who are guilty of nothing but growing up in a Dark household. He will do what he's always done: present the students with the truth and try to guide them along as he can, though there will be no forcing and it will be left to the person to choose their way. He'll stay on his guard and advise people to do the same-- he's not about to spill any of his secrets. I doubt there will be too many drastic changes at Hogwarts. The school needs to be kept sane and welcoming. Dumbledore knows what he's doing- he's more in touch with everything than anyone else at this point.

Originally posted by Kneazle
I agree that Dumbledore is not one to judge anyone prematurely, and that he'll wait for a person to prove something of themselves to him. He's not going to to place restrictions on these children who are guilty of nothing but growing up in a Dark household. He will do what he's always done: present the students with the truth and try to guide them along as he can, though there will be no forcing and it will be left to the person to choose their way.

One of the major themes in the book is, of course, you are what you make of yourself. And the "Our choices are much more important than our abilities."...
So this evidence leads me to believe that Dumbledore, although he may monitor the situation carefully, will ultimately let the individual make the decision for themselves. The individual will be presented with the facts, the options, and allowed to make up their own mind. As it is their life, their decision...

Originally post by Morgoth
Well, who is to say Dumbledore isn't already doing something about it? He is after all connected to Hogwarts in more ways than just headmaster.

That made me think. Maybe he is spying on them, think of all the tenancies Draco, Crabbe and Goyle have to chat, and we all know Dumbledore can make himself invisible.

I think Dumbledore would have a hard time trying to turn Draco. But I see what you mean about trying to educate them into the good ways and away from the bad, but I think using Snape as an example would be bad.

I just thought of something. Dracos parents are death eaters, and he likes Voldie yeah? Well Snape abandoned Voldie and spies on him, and works for Dumbledore, so does Draco think hes spying on Dumbledore, because I dont think taking points away from gryffindor would be enough to make a death-eaters child, and I suspect future death-eater, like someone who abadoned voldie, his lord?

Oh and El Kabong - click on the pic, do the quiz then you'll see ;)

I just think that as children, there is still a sense of innocence about them, which cannot be broken easily. Draco is influenced by his parents and is arrogant in nature, but I do think he'll be one of those students who will be forced to choose between what is easy and what is right. I think he'll become quite a good example for modern youth. Do you go with the flow or go with your instincts.

I think Draco has been influenced by high-followers of voldie, so will be inclined to go there. We know hes enemies with the boy who lived, and escaped voldie a lot so why would draco go over to his enemies? I think Draco will become a death-eater.

i think that when it is time for Draco to make the decision, he will choose the side of good. He's an arrogant little brat, an insufferable git, but he's not quite calculating enough to be inherently evil.
Perhaps he will get there as he gets on in years, but i just dont think he has the potential.
i may be proven wrong :grin:

He'll make the right decision. There's always a bit of humanity left in any evil person, aside from perhaps that guy over there... Yeah you... The one with the thing... yeah, you.. poke:

Ok, maybe Voldemort is beyond help, but that's hardly surprising. He's more than a man, so he doesn't count.

I think Draco will be evil. Death eater. He just seems too cruel, and influenced to be on the good side.

Oh, and to add to that... I was re-reading GoF today when a paragraph of what Hagrid says in "Rita Skeeter's Scoop" caught my eye --

(GoF, page 395, UK version, paperback)

"Dumbledore was the one who stuck up for me after Dad went. Got me the gamekeeper job ... trusts people, he does. Gives 'em second chances ... tha's what sets him apar' other Heads, see? He'll accept anyone at Hogwarts, s'long as they've got talent. Knows people can turn out OK even if their families weren' ... well ... all tha' respectable ..."

Quite relevant for this topic, I though.

Yeah. Dumbledore wont throw anyone out, just take precautions. I cant believe anyone could imagine raco turning good. Its impossible. Well, nothings impossible but thats very close! Tis a no-go area.

Originally posted by Thayet
Dumbledore wont throw anyone out, just take precautions. I cant believe anyone could imagine raco turning good. Its impossible. Well, nothings impossible but thats very close! Tis a no-go area.
In YOUR opinion, but not in mine. I guess maybe I'm just more like Dumbledore than you are.

Yes, in my opinion. From all Dracos character development turning good just wouldnt happen.

There was little in Snape's character development that would have led us to believe that he was good, except for Dumbledore's confidence in him. Yet it turns out that Snape is opposed to Voldemort, though we still don't know the reasons or details for that.

The other thing that leads me to believe that Draco might turn to the good is Tom Felton. He said he was giving up acting, going to concentrate on his studies, no more Harry Potter movies for him. Yet he's turned around and signed on for PoA. Now, some people say that they offered him more money to change his mind, and that could well be, though I'd rather not think of him as a greedy mercenary. It's also possible that he was tired of playing the "bad guy"-- however well the role was written. It's possible that he talked with JKR and found out that there will be a character reversal in the future, which might lead him to think twice about giving up a choice role.

I realize there is no evidence as of yet that Draco will turn, but there also is no guarantee that how a character has been shaped thus far is an ironclad indicator of future plot and character development. JKR is a good writer, and anything is possible.

I think that Dumbledore would let them continue at the school for a number of reasons. Firstly, to feed misinformation to the Dark lord. Its the perfect plan!! You have a whole bunch of false plans lurking aorund for eager and young ears to pick up and pass along and that way traps can be laid and sprung on the bad guys. Secondly, Dumbledore is the kind of guy to give seond chances to everyone that he thinks deserves them. And I'm sure he feels that the crimes of the father dont carry on to the child. Theres lots more reasons... but my chicken is burning!!

Just because a kid's parents are bad doesn't mean that he's bad, too. I think Dumbledore believes that all children should have a chance at edu., regardless of their past history. Malfoy is mean, but i'm not sure whether or not he's evil.

Here's my question -- why do Snape and Draco Malfoy like each other so much? If you think about it, we found out in GoF that Snape decided to turn into a spy for Dumbledore, which, presumably, helped at least partly to bring Voldemort down. Surely, then, Lucius Malfoy (and thus, I would assume Draco Malfoy) would feel at least the slightest feelings of resentment for Snape?

Snapes favours Malfoy beacuse he has to appear to be leaning towards the darkside to gain credibility for his spying. Snapes treatment of Malfoy JR will go back to Malfoy SR.

Maybe the Malfoys don't know about Snape being an agent. Maybe the just think he is a Death Eater. Snape may like the Draco so much because he thinks Draco is a good student or just because he is in his house.

I think the Malfoys know Snape was a spy: in Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore says that Snape had turned to their side long before Voldemorts downfall, so, they probably know.

I think he's treating okey Draco because he wants to take him and tell him: "This is the good side, you can still be mean to people here, you just don't have to kill them"
And I think Draco will finally turn to the good side.

I'm more "worried" about Crabe and Goyle, they don't seem to have much personality themselves, so I guess they would do whetever their parents wanted to do.

So I wasn't around when this was started, but having read this discussion, I think my thoughts on Draco and Snape best fit in here though I am still struggling with the searching thing, so please let me know if there is a better place.

Originally, my theory was that Snape was nice to Draco b/c Snape wanted to get in good with Draco so that Draco would tell his father and Snape would have good standing with Lucius should Snape want to spy on Lucius. Now, however, I am starting to think this is a much smaller part of the picture.

I am starting, however, to think that the reason Snape shows such favoritism toward Draco (and other Slytherins) is that he sees so much of himself in Draco. Snape was once in Draco's position and doesn't want Draco to make the same mistakes he did. Most people in the story don't see any good potential in the Slytherin's - there wasn't a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin, Harry thought they looked like a rather unpleasant lot, etc. Snape was once expected to "go bad" and he did, though he eventually realized the error of his ways. Much of it probably stems from the self-fulfilling prophecy that I have mentioned before where once someone receives a label, regardless of why they received the label, others think of them in the context of that label and interpret their actions and motivations accordingly until the labeled individual accepts that label themselves. I think Snape's primary motivation is for Malfoy to have a positive role model - someone who eventually managed to buck the Slytherin stereostype and proved invaluable to the cause. Similarly, I think Snape might resent the presumption that all Gryffindors are considered necessarily good and refuses to treat them as if they can do no wrong b/c they can and do make the wrong choices occasionally. While I think Snape still has much resentment about his label to work past, I think I am beginning to understand where he is coming from a little better and in the process see past my own preconceived notions a little better in believing in the hope of a better future for Draco Malfoy so long as there are people around him who still believe that better future is possible. I also think that this understanding is crucial to the question of how to treat all the Death Eater children who remain at Hogwart's. Any thoughts?

As an aside, I have provided a link to my favorite real-life study below particularly b/c there are interesting parallels to labels used in the wizarding world and their potential effects:

http://www.nwmissouri.edu/nwcourses/martin/devread/aints.html

I don't necessarily think Draco would turn good, but I'm not sure he has what it takes to really be evil either.

It seems to me that since he's still young, maybe he has a chance to not turn out the way his parents are. Sure he's been raised on intolerance and prejudice, but even the most helpless cases change.

And for some reason I really can't ever see Draco really hurting someone, like with his own bare hands. He pulls pranks, and he acts like an annoying git most of the time, and even though he talks about killing mudbloods, I really don't know if he'd ever have the heart to do it.

And back on topic, I agree with what people have said in that Dumbledore is much too opened minded and forgiving to through students out because of their parents. He really does believe in people's choices making up who they are, and not their families being who they are.

And it seems like Dumbledore is pretty aware of everything that goes on in the school, I don't think he'd let any kids go spying on him, I don't think they could if they tried.

There are times in the books Dumbledore is shown as powerful and frightnening; in ways Harry has never seen him before.

Although for the most part we know Dumbledore as the gentle, good ol' headmaster, least we forget he can shed that image and become the wizard whose powers are unmatchable to enforce good over evil.

If Voldermort fears Dumbledore than I'm sure the deatheaters and their children do also. They may brag about how thick Dumbledore is, but I don't think they would try any funny stuff on Dumbledore. A 5th year, heck even a 7th year student with all the knowledge in their being, couldn't match the power Dumbledore possesses in his little finger.

Originally posted by Beatrice Bottbean (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=177223#post177223))
I am starting, however, to think that the reason Snape shows such favoritism toward Draco (and other Slytherins) is that he sees so much of himself in Draco. Snape was once in Draco's position and doesn't want Draco to make the same mistakes he did. Most people in the story don't see any good potential in the Slytherins - there wasn't a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin, Harry thought they looked like a rather unpleasant lot, etc. Snape was once expected to "go bad" and he did, though he eventually realized the error of his ways...

...I think Snape's primary motivation is for Malfoy to have a positive role model -- someone who eventually managed to buck the Slytherin stereostype and proved invaluable to the cause. Similarly, I think Snape might resent the presumption that all Gryffindors are considered necessarily good and refuses to treat them as if they can do no wrong b/c they can and do make the wrong choices occasionally.

Wow, BB, some really excellent points. I've never really bought the "Oh, Snape really loves his slimy little Slytherin kids down deep" (thank you, Inkwolf ;) ) theory, but you do make a very good argument.

Like Snape himself, I'm really irked by the way that the Gryffindor and Slytherin Houses are so blatantly stereotyped in the books. I mean, the Slytherins are almost cartoonish in their constant, unrelenting, unchanging villainy. And I refuse to believe it's just lazy or bad writing, because JKR is neither, so...why?

As to your other points...I wonder, how much of a role model to his House Snape can be--and by that I mean the "Look at me! I used to be a Death Eater but now Dumbledore loves me!" type of role model--if he has to maintain some sort of cover for the good side. "His" kids will never know where he truly stands until the war's over, and by then they will have already chosen their paths.

I don't think that Dumbledore would let vital information out to students at the school. He's too smart to do that. He'd just make sure he was careful around them. Dumbledore would'nt take half of the Slytherins out of the school because of parents. Dumbledore is known for giving chances, maybe they'll realize that and not turn out like their parents.

Well, who's to say all the Death Eaters' children are in Slytherin? What if some of them are in Gryffindor? I think there may well be more Death Eaters than those we saw at the end of GoF, and of those, we only met a few personally. If a Gryffindor child is a Death Eater's child, they could provide Voldemort with very, very valuable intelligence - namely, Harry's location at any one time. If Voldemort knows that, even if he only knows where Harry is 60% percent of the time, he still gains an advantage from that. Some may find this idea absurd, but consider that this is war and in war you may have an enemy where you least expect him. We've seen it before, and we'll see it again. Consider also that there will now be a great deal more suspicion among the rest of the school and the Slytherins, and that kind of suspicion will play into Voldemort's hands. It would be an ideal environment for a spy to operate.

I think Dumbledore would be foolish not to take some action against the Death Eater's children. Would it be worth the downfall of all of Hogwarts, or Harry's capture, just to save a few wayward kids? In my opinion - no. It's a noble idea to want to change them, and Dumbledore is noble (a bit too noble in my view), but some people cannot change. The fate of the world is at stake, and the focus should be on winning that battle, not trying to reabilitate some Death Eater brats. So, were the decision up to me - I'd throw them out of Hogwarts. The risk is just too great otherwise.

I think Draco may well change to the good side, since he's a coward at heart and when push comes to shove, he won't have the guts to stay with the Dark Side.

I dunno, I mean its all very well for The Dark Lord to have knowledge of where Harry is at one time, but that information surely cannot be that hard to aqquire. I mean Quirrel knew where Harry was all the time (or where he was meant to be), because he was meant to be in classes, but I think that since Quirrel, Dumbledore would of beefed up on the security surrounding the school in that fashion.

Hmmmm, I know I had a point around here somewhere?

I agree with everyone who said that Dumbledore won't do anything to the DeathEaters kids who are at Hogwarts. He believes too much in letting people chose their own path in life. I do believe that he will try to show these children what the right path is, and then let them choose for themselves. Besides, the saying goes, "Keep your friends close and you're enemies even closer." At least if the DeathEater kids are at Hogwarts, Dumbledore knows that they're not out in the world directly helping Voldemort.

Just coz their parents are DEs doesnt mean they're bad. I agree there's no reason why they should be in Slytherin - we've already shown time and again bloodlines arent the be-all and end-all of the Sorting.

I also dont think ALL of Slytherin is evil. They're supposed to specialise in cunning and ambition, right? Well, ambition - if most of them come from rich pure-blooded families, their parents will be like Draco's - remember that scene where Lucius has a go at Draco coz Hermione's grades are better than his? They want their cold, hard-to-impress parents to approve of them. Cunning... well, if they cant get ahead one way... Then somewhere along the lines as they grow older, they get obsessed with being better than their peers, being stronger, more powerful, superior. As their need to be better grows, so does their ability to succeed by any method.

It's just a theory, wont hold true for everyone but I read a fanfic where Snape was this timid child, desperate for affection from his parents, and approval from them and Lucius (his parents' best friends' older, poised son)... It really made me feel for him, and realise how lonely it must have been for him growing up. I agree with Beatrice Bottbean he could see these children growing up as miserable as he was, and that he's trying to reach out to them; give them the approval, even the affection... Tho by showing favoritism he isnt really doing this but he could well be trying

[i]Originally posted by dobbygirl
the saying goes, "Keep your friends close and you're enemies even closer."
Dumbledore is keeping them all together in one area (slytherin house) maybe he is just listening for any casual conversation between them that could be of use. They would obviously feel more at ease in each others company, as Ron and Harry proved with the polyjuice.
Would they also be more willing to confide in Snape?

I think Dumbledore could have many reasons for "letting" the DE children stay at Hogwarts. (Perhaps it's not up to him. Hogwarts does have a schoolboard)

He would want to keep an eye on them that's true. But he could try to reshape them and give them another example to follow. He'll try and do his best for them while they are under his care.

Sadly it doesn't seem like it's working.
Some type of people follow the crowd. With so many snotty little kids teasing them other Slytherin's might be afraid to speak out. They didn't pray for Cedric. None of them. Rowling would've mentioned this if she meant for us to see any decent Slytherins at this point.

They spend so much time with Flint, Malfoy,etc. they will try and get along with them over Harry's crowd.
I'm sure as death and terror ensues they'll realise the error of this path and try and help out Dumbledore.

Correction, Weatherby, they actually all toasted Cedric. The quote is "they did it, all of them; the benches scraped as everyone in the hall stood, and raised their goblets, and echoed, in one loud, low, rumbling voice, 'Cedric Diggory.'" The one where many of the Slytherin's refused to toast was for Harry's bravery, and then "many of the... Slytherins had remained defiantly in their seats, their goblets untouched." The key word is many. Some of the Slytherin's DID toast Harry, they acknowledged his bravery at the hands of Lord Voldemort. They aren't all bad.

Oh okay. It's been a few months since I reread GoF.
*gasp!*
Thanks for correcting me.
Then hopefully we'll see.
Dumbledore might very well use them as spies if the theories are correct that he knew all along about the threats from the previous books but wanted Harry to tackle them himself.

I believe that the children of the death-eaters will remain at Hogwarts. Sure, Draco at times seems to be an evil person but he is still young. Not all of those children who have death-eaters as parents would want to follow in their footsteps. They are able to form their own opinions, which usually are the opposite of their parents. Dumbledore would be able to control and identify any problems if they arose in the student body.

It would also be a dead give away if the children of death-eaters didn't return to Hogwarts. It's also a matter of education, these students probably dream of being death-eaters but they don't have the education yet, Hogwarts is known as the best school to learn wizardry so it makes sense that they still attend there.

I dont think DD would even approach any of them about becoming spies. If a child was to seek him out, nervously ask to talk to him in private, and confess (s)he'd heard his/her parents talking, then I'm sure DD would listen, reassure him/her (s)he'd done the right thing, and make sure, for his/ her safety that DD was the only person that the kid had confided in so far - Crouch jr was only 17 when he was convicted of DE crimes, the same age as some of the older children at Hogwarts. I really doubt DD would tollerate bullying in his school, but he'd also know he cant protect everyone all the time, so he would try to keep it as low-key as possible.

But once the child had left his office he would spring into action, if action were appropriate.

Ah, but heres a question for you Miri. What if the child didn't confess, and was actually involved in their parents death eater activity, or were actually spying themselves? He may not know, and if he did happen to overhear a conversation, or find out, what would he do then?

If you think about Dumbledore's personality, it would not make any sense for him to expel/punish the children of death eaters, because the children are still growing as individuals, and may not necessarily believe the same things their parents do. True, students like Draco, Crabbe and Goyle are probably hopeless, but Dumbledore's a really optimistic character, and I believe he'd be willing to give anyone a second chance to prove their worth...

But what if, given a second chance, he discovered they had extracted information and given to their parents, then on to Voldemort, say given away valuable information discovered, on what the "good" side were doing to fight it? Yes, Dumbledore is trusting, but would he be so trusting as to allow spies, failing their second chance, to remain being taught in the school?

I dont believe that DD would leave the sort of clues that would endanger any work for the good lying around to be found by less scrupulous ppl.

Thayet, I believe if he found out that DEs' children were being told to spy on him by their parents, that they werent really being given a choice about which side to go to, that he'd feel for them. I think he'd continue to teach them at the school, maybe telling the teachers to keep an eye on them. Maybe asking Snape to have a heart-to-heart with the kid.

I dont believe he's too trusting or too optimistic. he's a great guy.

You do have a point, but... Are the children willingly spying for their parents, or are the being forced into it? I mean, grown witches and wizards were terrified of facing a death eater, so what do you think an untried, young, nieve witch or wizard would do? I personally think that, if there are child spies at Hogwarts, they are doing it either to please their parents, or because their parents are coercing them into it...

And remember, nothing really gets past Dumbledore... he's headmaster, he knows what's going on in his school. I think that he's *allowed* -- not sanctioned, mind, but merely allowed -- people like Quirrell, Skeeter and 'Moody' in for some unforseen reason. He knows Voldemort is after Harry, and so is helping him along by giving him these opportunities to use his skills and his brain instead of just having the faith that 'when the need arises...'

Thayet: "But what if, given a second chance, he discovered they had extracted information and given to their parents..."

Thayet, unless you mean to tell me that these children have been DEs, renounced it, asked for a second chance, then turned back to the DEs, they're not being given second chances.

You cant judge children by their parents. They're individuals.

How many of you were surprised to see Lucious Malfoy in the circle of Death Eaters? Crabbe and Goyle Sr.? Anyone? I highly doubt anyone was. And I also doubt that Dumbledore would be surprised to find out that they're death eaters either. He already knows the death eaters are out there, and he's known all along that their kids are at Hogwarts. Anything he would do to/for/with/about/etc. those kids he's most likely been doing all along.

Originally posted by miri (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=193769#post193769))
Thayet, unless you mean to tell me that these children have been DEs, renounced it, asked for a second chance, then turned back to the DEs, they're not being given second chances.

You cant judge children by their parents. They're individuals.


Miri. You're mistaking me here. Judging as individuals, some are as what you may call 'evil', as their parents, for example Draco Malfoy, and may choose to spy, hoping for extra attention from their parents and the promise of entry into the death eaters circle. If Dumbledore did discover this, and that information had been leaking out also, no doubt he would know who it was, you really think, that in the dark times coming up, he would do nothing?

I'm not saying this is my view. But it is a viewpoint, and an argument, which I can understand. Dumbledore is a great guy, but how far will his trust stretch?

I dont reckon DD would ever get in that situation - he wouldnt talk where he could be overheard, he wouldnt leave anything lying around where anyone could find it... etc etc etc

he's trusting but not stupid. He knows that many of his former pupils are DEs and that he's almost definitely got DE wannabes at Hogwarts now. But until they do something wrong, they're innocents. Even then, if he thinks there's any way he can convince them they're on the worng side, he'll try. We dont know why Snape changed sides, after all. But i dont think he will discriminate in any way against children whose parents are or were DEs.

I never said he would discriminate, and he doesn't need to be careless, for a mistake to happen, and information to be leaked now, does he?

Thayet: That made me think. Maybe he is spying on them, think of all the tenancies Draco, Crabbe and Goyle have to chat, and we all know Dumbledore can make himself invisible
august 11th

you're suggesting DD invade their privacy. This is a guy we've seen place faith in his students, trust them etc.

Thayet: Yes, Dumbledore is trusting, but would he be so trusting as to allow spies, failing their second chance, to remain being taught in the school?
feb 28th

you havent really explained what you mean by failing their 2nd chance. Or what you mean there either. In context, i understood what you were saying as he was giving them a 2nd chance by not kicking them out as soon as their parents were revealed as DEs, but not failing. Are you saying that they'd be failing their 2nd chance if they did spy on DD? I still dont believe it is their 2nd chance, but their first. By saying it's their 2nd chance, even though the children have not made the 1st transgression (the parents did), you're indicating they're on probation of a sort. I'd consider this discrimination

I could be misunderstanding you completely though!

I mean, if they'd already given away some information, or done something worthy of suspension, maybe even expelling, but Dumbledore had given them a second chance, if they done anything then, then I think even dumbledore would kick them out, dont you?

do you mean just coz of the situation, or if they then tried spying on him?

if, after they'd already done something really really really REALLY serious, had been given a 2nd chance, and then started spying on DD, then it's possible. Unless he had good reason to believe that they believed he was gonna kick them out/ stop trusting them coz of what had happened b4 and/ or who their parents were, so figured they werent losing anything, and by ingratiating themselves with the DEs were actually just trying to find someone who'd accept them and trust em!

Also, what things count as that serious? How often have the kids we know landed themselves or each other in the infirmary? The most that ever happened was points removed, or detention, or lines.

I cant see DD expelling anyone unless the circumstances really were extenuating.

I doubt that Dumbledore would take any action unless he found it necessary. Part of the problem with eavesdropping is that, without proof, the person can deny anything you say. We've seen both of the Malfoys' opinion of Dumbledore, and if that's any judge for the rest of the Death Eaters and any supporting kids, that'll be the first thing they do. Unless Dumbledore can pull them off their guard, talking won't do any good. And what can he ask of them if they're on the other side? What can he do with them?

I suppose that manipulation is a better option. If the kids are acting as spies, he can drop false trails that will save lives and better his cause. It wouldn't be the first time someone used this tactic in literature at the least. That's probably more useful than expulsion. If Dumbledore expels a kid on that charge, it says he knows what they're up to, and they can use that to their benefit. Not to mention the fact that they'll just install a second spy, and maybe backup. Better that you know who your enemies are.

And while it wouldn't be a surprise to see the kids serving Voldemort, the numbers won't be very big. They're used to peace. Their parents hold Voldemort in a position of reverence, but are terrified of him as well. If that much seeped into the kids, well, we can hope that they'll either turn back or they'll be easier to break if it comes to breaking them. Part of the problem here is reading Dumbledore's personality, and we don't know as much about him as we once thought we did.

Hmmm... good points... I had considered whether or not he might try the false clues tactic but then figured he wouldnt, coz he seems too honest to deliberately mislead ppl. Also, if the DEs went on false info, realised it had been wrong, etc, they might take it out on the kid that had given them it, so i think he'd be more likely to make sure he dropped no clues at all

Why dont we know DD as well as thought we did though? Coz we've suddenly found out he's kept something from Harry for years? Someone quoted 5 i think somewhere but that doesnt make sense to me... i think 4.

Keeping something from ppl can often be as an attempt to protect them, and while DD values free will, an individual's right to choose, etc, if he was hoping Voldemort would never rise again, then there are probably quite a few things he hoped he would never have to tell Harry.

I assume you're basing the assumption we dont know him as well as we thought based on something much larger, with more sinister overtones? I just cant think what!

This is verging on a different subject, but...we've always thought of Dumbledore as omnipotent and kind-hearted, but Goblet of Fire seems to contradict some of this. He's old. He's weakening. He doesn't know everything, no matter what everyone thinks, and there's no way to tell how much he doesn't know. He's a strong fighter and a good opponent for anyone. The problem is that for this to be possible, he can't have been as wonderful as we've always made him out to be. Not evil, not necessarily, but not entirely good. He has morals, but it's possible that he's broken them, and we don't know how badly. We assume from the start that he's good, but are we right, or are we being misled?

That's something to consider here. Most of the things Dumbledore could make use of with spies and such in the school depend on him being able to break honor badly to do what needs to be done. We don't know what he's capable of in that field because we've never heard any real stories of him, just backwash that there are. Dumbledore can't let the possible threat run so free, but what can he do besides hope if he isn't willing to bend from what we'd call good? And how far?

So DD faces tough decisions too..?

I think you could be right about the trio realising suddenly that DD cant protect them from everything... and having a mad man impersonate an old friend/ close acquaintance, unsuspected for a good 8-10 months...

And the old *wrong thing, right reasons* thing... it's a very simple concept but can have hideous repercussions, depending how she writes it

I dont know how much of all this the books will go into tho, to be honest. Hogwarts is still one of the safest places to be. It could be very important tho - now Voldy's back I think the entire wizarding world at large will have a bigger role to play

In my opinion, Draco isn't going to do anything as constructive as spy for Voldemort. He's a bully, likes being rude about the same people his father's rude about and is thoroughly spoiled. I don't think he's brave enough to spy or inventive enough to think of it. His father wouldn't put him in any danger by telling him to actively spy, although he might be interested in just hearing about what was going on at Hogwarts. But then, there wouldn't be anything much for Draco to tell unless he actively spied.
As for Draco turning good and passing information the other way, I have my doubts but am keeping an open mind (in other words, I don't think he will but I don't want to look stupid if he does :-))
Other Death Eaters' children: Crabbe and Goyle are too thick; what about Nott junior? I seem to remember him in the PS sorting but perhaps I'm wrong. Edit: yes, Nott is mentioned in the PS sorting but we don't hear anything about him, not even the house he's in.
Dumbledore may be keeping a better watch on them than they realise. Snape is probably keeping an eye on them to see if any of them are serious threats to Hogwarts' security. Snape is their head of house and Malfoy, at least, seems to trust him. I think Snape would know if anything was going on.

Most of the Death eater's children are probably in Slytherin. Maybe that's why Snape is the head of Slytherin, he turned away from Voldemort, and maybe Dumbledore wants him to show the children of the Death Eaters that they can too...

I kind of agree that Snape is serving as a kind of mentor type figure for the Slytherins. They might not all know that he was a previous death eater, but they do know he fully trusts Dumbledore. So while they may not agree with everything Dumbledore does, I think they realize a lot that they have the choice between good and evil.

And just cause they choose good doesn't mean they have to be ninnies or anything.

And I'm more on the side that Dumbledore is already pretty aware of everything that happens in the castle, even when he's not there. I doubt he'd need children spies, and I doubt he'd endanger them to spy for him. I also don't think the death eaters, no matter how horrid would endanger their children either, and ask them to spy on Dd and Hogwarts. Besides I think Voldie sort of has bigger fish to fry, he is after European domination, maybe he should be looking to taking out the MoM and such.

What about if DD is a necromance? I read a book with two of them in it years and years and years ago but it was really really cool!

Basically, this girl and her baby brother were shipwrecked. He was a necromancer, so floated, and she somehow knew this and clung to her body. They were orphaned. She told everyone they survived coz she was a witch, and was taught some stuffs etc, but insisted on the bro being in the room at the time - she was basically drawing on his power, and he was unaware of it. She was a not-very-nice power-hungry little madam really...

When they're late single-digits, early doubles, they go live in the castle with a necromance. Necromances have 9 lives, and the boy had a little book of matches, with 9 all together, and 1 missing. The sister then borrows one to travel to another dimension where she's an only child to try to overthrow the necromance she's living with. Her counterpart, who's lovely, is sent in her place, and figures this one out, even though in her dimension, there isnt any magic. He strikes one of the matches to prove her wrong and he goes up in flames. She calls for the necromance to come by name and summons him - basically, when he hears his name, he's summoned, no matter where he is.

That's the main bit, I'm hoping someone can tell me the name of the book now! But yeah, necromances - 9 lives, very very powerful wizards (I guess femme ones are probably possible but they werent mentioned), each have one weakness. I cant remember what the boy's was, but the adult's one was silver so the girl from the other dimension (i believe ours) suggested that he use stainless steel instead (something just not IN that dimension, that he hadnt thought of, lol)

My point is, then, DD wouldnt BE eavesdropping - he'd be summoned when the kids gossipped about him, and just choosing to stay quiet and invisible!

Sorry for the burblyness - i'm tired and hungry and just thought of this! Besides, it was a really good book!

*bump*

Thank you for retrieving this thread pasalita, I went looking for it yesterday and just could not find it. I looked manually and with search function.

*BUMP*

Should the children of the death eaters not be under some sort of observation? Or put through the veritiserium to gain more information? There is no doubt that Draco, Crabbe and Goyle have information about many things.
I can't help but to think, that in the muggle world that if the parents of a muggle child of the age of 15 were convicted of murder and/or attempted murder that their children would also be questioned. I hope this does not become a loose end. Any thoughts?

I would like to see something pinned on Draco, Crabbe and Goyle.

But Im not quite sure how much they do know, as Malfoy wouldn't even tell his son that it was Voldemort that had opened the Chamber the first time.

I don't think that the children of death eaters will be given veritiserium. Dumbledore wouldn't do that. To be honest I really don't think Draco knows very much, he just likes to give the impression that he does.

I agree with Charmed. Draco's never actually said he knew Lucius was a Death Eater. I don't think Lucius tells his son very much about his work with Voldemort. I don't think the children of Death Eaters will be given more supervision and I don't think Veritaserum will be used... I can't see Draco trying to do anything harmful to Harry. He's all talk that's all.

draco would atleast know his dad was a death eater and same with the other kids. what about the wives?? Some of the death easters are husband and wives but what abuot nacrissa malfoy?? Theyd all know their husbands were death eaters by their marks on their arms. maybe narcrissa doesn't want to risk her beauty?? and the same with the others

Dumbledore isn't going to use a heavily monitored truth potion on his students, that isn't the way he operates and after seeing what happened with the Ministry in OotP does anyone really was Hogwarts to become like that? Dumbledore believes in second chances and certainly doesn't believe in the importance of blood, Draco might have bad blood in his veins but to Dumbledore he could still do something great...just like Professor Snape.

They should watch the moves of the Little Death Eathers (or Young Death Eaters Club), because I'm sure they won't be very happy with their parents in jail.

I definately agree that Dumbledore will probably keep tabs on the sons and daughters of known Death Eaters but I don't think he'll go to the extremities that some might suggest i.e. use of Veritaserum.

Yeah I was going to say what Picko said, veritiserium use is meant to be srictly used under ministry guide lines. It was only used this time because 'old toad' felt she was so under fudges 'wing' she could do as she pleased. Like using the crucio curse and setting dementors on Harry.

Just like the people in the OOTP I'd think Death Eaters would try and keep important information from their kids. After all they don't wat their secrets out any more than the order does.

Well Im sure that Draco,Crabbe and Goyle will stage there utter loathing of DD.After all,he stopped and captured them at the MofM.I doubt that DD will keep tabs on them though.Im sure Draco knew that his father was a DeathEater cause there was too much of a risk in not telling him for fear he would shoot off his famous mouth.Yet I think thats the extent of his knowledge.He may know other tiny little details but thats it. Nothing major im sure he likes to act like it.

I actually think Draco knows a lot of what his father does. Lucious likes to be the center of attention and having a son to brag to would inflate his ego. Draco is capable of keeping secrets and I think his father is raising him to become a DE like him. Same with Crabb, Goyle, and probably Pansy Parkinson.

Originally posted by OreoCookie05 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=392595#post392595))
Draco's never actually said he knew Lucius was a Death Eater. I don't think Lucius tells his son very much about his work with Voldemort.

Draco never directly stated he knew what his dad did but,

In GOF, Harry says something about his dad being one of the people running around in masks and Draco doesn't deny it.

In POA at the end, he threatens Harry for putting his dad in jail. Obviously he knew it was Harry's fault his dad was in jail and knew how he got there. AND he knew about the dementors, now I know this was in the paper, but he had to have known before hand why his dad was there.

I do agree that Draco and other Deatheater's children will be under a close watch.

I do not think Dumbledore would put them under the influence of Veritesiuam, however I think a close eye will be on the all, also I think "Choice's we have to make for ourselves" will be a very spoken topic.

Dumbledore has always believed in second chances and he does not place the importance of blood. He also is keen on protecting his students, no matter what they are like. Such as Marietta. She had snitched about the DA and he's protecting her from Umbridge.
I do think that the children of the Death Eaters will be placed under some sort of watch, but can't take drastic measures. What have they done wrong? Techially, nothing. There could be some that are like Sirius; bad family but decent kid.

I don't think it would be fair to punish the children. In real life, when a parent is convicted of a crime, the child isn't put on probation or sent to jail or interrogated.
Even though it is very probably that Draco and others have information and are perhaps considering joining the death eaters, there is no proof for this. Dumbledore and the MoM can't just accuse them of doing somehting bad because their families are bad. Just look at Sirius Black, his brother was a death eater, but he wasn't evil.

My guess is that is Snape's job. He favors Slytherin house so the children of Death Eaters, who are all in Slytherin, would trust him enough and they might even provide information.

In the beginning of the next school year, should Dumbledore tell students who's family have suffered losses at the hands of Death Eaters, not to harm the students in Slytherin who are the children of Death Eaters. Because I know I would hate someone who's parents killed someone in my family. Also, he would have to place some sort protect for the children of D.E. or enforce harm punishments for student who ingnores his warnings.

I think at least some of the children of Death Eaters are planning their own Junior Death Eaters Club. They will go head to head with Dumbledore's Army.

Hey, that idea might just work. It would be cool to have Harry's "gang" and Malfoys' "gang" fighting each other.

Originally posted by remusjlupin1980 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413098#post413098))
I think at least some of the children of Death Eaters are planning their own Junior Death Eaters Club. They will go head to head with Dumbledore's Army.


Very logical thinking there!! yes... that would be very interesting...

I don't thing Dumbledore would like/allow such a gang fight, precisely at those times of Voldie's return. He'll try to make Draco and company see they should join the good side before it's too late, rather than making them fight with Harry.

He'll try but Draco,Crabbe,Goyle and the boys will not join Dumbledore they will follow in their father's footsteps. They are likely the darklord's biggest asset. They are his eyes and ears at Hogwart's if I was Dumbledore they'd be gone as in expelled.

I think that teachers and DD will try to unite all the houses. And I don't know about you guys, but that Slytherin kid that could see threstrails (or however you call them) really intrigued me.

That boy was unnamed, maybe we'll see more of him. But I agree they should unite the houses. Maybe even eliminate the House Cup to finish with any types of competition between houses. The Slytherin people should be under control, and Snape shouldn't be so nice with them.

I reckon that they should join. It would be fun to see them all fight against Voldemort. I don't reckon it'll happen though. Draco, Crabbe and Goyle will no way let them join. Praps the DA will be good enough to hepl the Order?

Hmmmm all interesting ideas - i think as voldie gathers supporters and starts murdering again, more people will have rising fury towards draco and the gang - could be very interesting!
I dont think malfoy, crabbe, goyle etc will EVER turn to the good side - theyve been raised in the shadows for too long - not gonna happen!

Interesting but I don't think Voldie want a bunch of kids at his disposal, though some of them might be smarter than a couple certain DE of his but *ahem*, that's off subject, uniting the houses are not simple, the only one standing in the way is Slytherin but I do not think that all Slytherins are evil, those who want to desperately prove themselves doesn't necessaily means Dark Lord supporting but those who are are like a stuborn thorns that are holding firmly in their places. And, some of you have suggested ending the House Cup to end more battles between the houses? Are you also willing to dispose Quidditch? Because that's more rivaling (is that a word? :??: ) than the house cup can ever be.
----My suggestion? I think DD's technique is excellent for now, keeping a deaf ear to everything and acting as if he does not know who's parent's supporting who and just let them be, but, if they raise chaos in spite of circumstances now, they could always be expelled from Hogwarts.

Originally posted by jimmifer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413627#post413627))
I dont think malfoy, crabbe, goyle etc will EVER turn to the good side - theyve been raised in the shadows for too long - not gonna happen!

Have some faith! There's another thread somewhere about whether or not Crabbe and Goyle will be redeemed (but not Draco...:shrug: ).... but I think that DD would do all in his power to "convert" these kids from the dark side, and I also think that JKR will try to send a message that there is always a chance to be forgiven and make up for what you've done in the past.

Dumbledore will try to unite the houses. Draco and Co. will not want to unite with anyone. There is a chance that Draco and Co. may transfer to Durmstrang or somewhere else to keep them away from Dumbledore.

The roving gangs idea is cute, but would not be tolerated within Hogwarts walls, by many of the teachers, not just Dumbledore. However, some (or most) of books 6 and 7 may take place outside Hogwarts, and then anything goes.

I don know if they will unite the four classes. I think it should happen and they keep leaving hints that they should (sorting hat) but if they did the emblem on their robes would be this...

http://harry.potter.is.free.fr/images/hogwarts.jpg

Okay, several good things in this thread so far. But one thing to notice. There aren't a whole lot of kids of Death Eaters at this school, at least not a lot who are the kids of DEs that Harry mentioned, so forming an anti-DA will be pretty tough with Malfoy, weedy Knott, and the ape crew (Vinny and Greg). Plus, they've already tried squaring off with the DA and came out looking like Slugs. Actually doesn't this make twice that they've squared off and been humiliated? Yeah, the unnamed kid will probably be important in the next couple of books. The question is, is he a reasonable Slytherin with a bloody past (like Snape) or is he the son of a DE who got to watch mum and dad work when he was younger?

Originally posted by idbeasquib (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413690#post413690))
Have some faith! There's another thread somewhere about whether or not Crabbe and Goyle will be redeemed (but not Draco...:shrug: ).... but I think that DD would do all in his power to "convert" these kids from the dark side, and I also think that JKR will try to send a message that there is always a chance to be forgiven and make up for what you've done in the past.


Yeahhhh i do have some faith that some of the kids will turn out to be goodys its just whether its draco and co - they seem a leeeetle too much into the good vs evil thing to be turned around - especially as they show a certain lack of respect towards dumbledore [only when hes not around of course - tut]
Anything could happen, but from JKR speaking of her slight confusion that so many kids are liking draco [lol - me included i have to say] - im guessing we have to watch out for him!

I think Dumbledore will once again press the importance of unity amongst houses - and I'm sure the Sorting Hat will too. I don't think he will particularly target certain individuals though.

He wouldn't single them out. Why draw more attention to it? Dumbledore believes that they can be redeemed, or he wouldn't have them in Hogwarts. Until they give him reason to believe there's no hope, I expect them to stay there. Besides, it means he can keep a closer eye on them.

I agree that they're going to take it upon themselves to set up some form of Junior Death Eaters, just to be a pain to the DA.

I had this thought and I fogured this was the best thread to put it in.

I am not sure that the children of the DE's do know that much. I think that before Voldemort came back DE's and ex DE's sort of treated the past as nostalgic, which is why I think that DE's like Malfoy still liked Snape.

Anyway, in PoA Malfoy taunted Harry about Sirius betrayin his parents. This was the common belief but as a prominant DE, Lucius would have known differently, but he didn't let Malfoy in on it.

true...and who's to say ALL the children should be monitered, that's kinda judgemental, isn't it? sirius was a good kid from a bad family, who's to say those kids either (a) had no idea or (b) thought their parents were prats for being involved?i think we just want to see crabbe goyle and malfoy suffer lol!

I have a question (I'm a bit in a hurry, sorry if the answer is already posted somewhere else): That very crucial day, you know, when Harry finally storms to the MOM. Voldemort planned it, didn't he? He showed Harry all these dreams so he should know where to seek. He showed the Sirius thing to trap him and he sent Lucius, Bellatrix and Co to pick up Harry and the prophecy, alright? But on that special day, Umbridge and her little Squad team run wild. My question is: If Draco knew about daddys manouvre, how could he try to keep Harry in the school? It's not this "Draco is good to the core"- story, I rather mean: if he was so close to Lucius as many people think, and even so close to becomming one of the REAL villains, why didn't Lucius tell his son to keep quiet on THAT PARTICULAR DAY?
I'm really interested in this point, so if you can tell me, I'd be very pleased!

That's another good point to support the idea that the DE don't share much with their children. And I do think that monitoring the children is VERY judgemental.

I have put this idea in another relevant thread, but there seems to be privacy rules in the wizarding world. They do not register and monitor every wand (which could catch illegal activity, unforgivable curses, and underage magic). They also do not use veritaserum, prior incantato, or legilimens in arrests and trials as we saw in Dumbledore's pensieve.

I don't think Dumbledore is that kind of person. Fudge would definitely do something like that though

I have been thinking about this for a while...Will Malfoy and the sons of other death eaters return to school. I mean, lets think about it
1) With Voldemort at large, and the death eaters constantly working, Lucius and others WILL have their hands full. Even Malfoy would want to be with his father.
2) Other friends of Harry and such are bound to treat Malfoy like s**t due to the fact his father serves the dark lord.
3) What would the point be for them to come back, we already know Malfoy and his kind have no real interest with subjects taught at Hogwarts. He wants to learn the dark arts!

my final wuestion would be to ask...Sure all those slytherins are bad, but are they bad enough or stupid enough to persue a life with the dark lord.

Well, it would make a **** boring book 6 if they didn't return!

EDIT: the word d-a-m-n is edited out! mmmmm.........

They'll be back in Hogwarts. Their dads are in Azkhaban, but I expect they will escape sometime during the school year. I also expect that the boys will be very arrogant, mean, and openly aggressive (remember, Draco always looked to see if a teacher was watching before picking on other kids). I don't think Draco will worry so much about who sees him doing his little "malicious mischief".

I don't believe that the Slytherins are dumb or smart for following the dark lord. They actually believe that he represents the way of life they want to live and that he will help them attain it. They believe they are superior and will do anything to protect that belief. Also, their beliefs are generations old - as evidenced by the tapestry in the Black family mansion. It's not some gang formed to rob banks, liquor stores, and sell drugs. While the end result of either activity is still the death of innocent bystanders, I would take Voldemort much more seriously. The gang knows they are doing wrong. Voldemorts followers know they are right. Big difference.

Ya theyre definately going to come back.

I have a question for you guys tho. Why is Snape so nice to Malfoy? Is it just because he's pretending to be a DE? Because if I was a DE turned good, I wouldn't be nice to old De's sons

Yes they will

I think they will (unfortunately)

I bet that many if not all of them will, if only for JKR to give them a chance for them to choose sides. Not everyone is going to choose the side of their parents as it is each individual person's choice, as JKR has said so often. The return of children of DEs will play into the choices are what make you what you are theme.

I bet that many if not all of them will, if only for JKR to give them a chance for them to choose sides. Not everyone is going to choose the side of their parents as it is each individual person's choice, as JKR has said so often. The return of children of DEs will play into the choices are what make you what you are theme.
I agree, they will be back so we will see their choices play out both bad and good.

Just a couple of other thoughts on this:
When Harry was sorted, he chose not to go into Slytherin. Those that did go into Slytherin might have gone in either because they wanted to or because of some family or peer pressure. So either they will continue down that path or break free.

I remember Sirius talking about Regulus and getting in too deep. I wonder if we will see this because of their choices.

The children will return to school because the DE use them as inside information to what is going on there. Just look at the way Lucius uses Draco to suck out information concerning Harry Potter. Plus they all think that Snape will protect there children from anything that may go on in the school.

So yes I think the children of the DE will return to Hogwarts, whether all of them manage to stay the whole year without being expelled, well thats a different story. :)

So yes I think the children of the DE will return to Hogwarts, whether all of them manage to stay the whole year without being expelled, well thats a different story. :)

That's an interesting thought. I guess the other side of the coin would be something that Hagrid said in SS about Voldemort not daring to take over the school, not yet anyway.

Yes, they will return. The chldren have done nothing wrong (so far) so why should htey be punished? I can see them being ostracised though. Andi can definitely see them causing trouble for Harry.

I doubt that the MoM would just leave the deatheaters in Azkaban without some sort of guard to keep them from leaving whether it be magic or some sort of creature. I think that the sons of the deatheaters will be back in school. They still need their education after all. The kids may hate them even more but I doubt that the other students would actually act cruel towards them. They might talk about them behind their backs but I think their priviledged exsistence as holier than thou is over.

I find this an interesting thread actually, Harry named-and-shamed the DE's and the MoM incident only served to prove he was right. The sons and daugters of said Death Eaters are likely to come in for a lot of stick at school, especially from students who have lost family to DE attacks. I cannot imagine Draco Malfoy not returning, if for no other reason than to get revenge on Harry, but see it this way, he is in a useful position within the school as a spy AND he has regular contact with Harry.

I do feel that some of the other children of publically named Death Eaters may not return, but do remember, we can't choose our parents so there may be students that are disowned by their Voldie-loyal families because they don't agree with the DE morals (or lack of them as the case may be LOL) and have to swap houses because they are in too much danger in Slytherin (Didn't JKR say that someone would swap houses???)

Veq.

The slytherins always seemed to act as if they had some sort of superiority over the school. Now that Voldemort is back for sure I think that either the students are going to be afraid to talk to them or give them hell for all th **** that there families have been through. Malfoy is no longer the little prince of Hogwarts with his father on the school board. They may be out of favor with the other students at Hogwarts but fear may take it's toll on the school.

I can see Malfoy and some of the others espousing the idea their fathers are political prisoners. Certainly they won't consider them criminals and they will be resentful of those who see them as such.

we've alreadt seen theem try to make life hard for harry form book 5 where they were in that inquisitorial squad thing. but thee most they could do was deduct house points. they could be valuable to voldy though, he could use them to see what is going on in hogwarts or he could posses them to get closer to harry

Draco could be a source of information, that's for sure. But he isn't close enough to Harry's inner circle to glean anything really important. Like Bertha Jorkins, however, he could pinpoint specific events at Hogwarts that might pose opportunities for Voldemort to attempt something.

Snape will have to walk a very fine line in the next two books... If he keeps something quiet from Voldemort, it is likely Voldemort will hear of it from Lucius through Draco.

Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle should all be interrogated for possible conspiracy in front of the MoM whether they are innocent or not. If Harry can be dragged in front of 40 witches a tried for using magic due to age restrictions, Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle should face the same scrutiny. The coincidence that Draco's, Crabbe's, and Goyle's parent(s) are in fact death eaters, and the coincidence that these three hang out together in school is just too hard to ignore.

Draco hasn't been in trouble for his own actions so why would they punish him for his fathers? They won't.
Draco is without a doubt going to pass on information for his father but they need substantial proof.

I think they should watch Draco, Crabbe and Goyle and other kids of death eaters very carefully and see what the Hogwarts professors see about them

I have a question (I'm a bit in a hurry, sorry if the answer is already posted somewhere else): That very crucial day, you know, when Harry finally storms to the MOM. Voldemort planned it, didn't he? He showed Harry all these dreams so he should know where to seek. He showed the Sirius thing to trap him and he sent Lucius, Bellatrix and Co to pick up Harry and the prophecy, alright? But on that special day, Umbridge and her little Squad team run wild. My question is: If Draco knew about daddys manouvre, how could he try to keep Harry in the school? It's not this "Draco is good to the core"- story, I rather mean: if he was so close to Lucius as many people think, and even so close to becomming one of the REAL villains, why didn't Lucius tell his son to keep quiet on THAT PARTICULAR DAY?
I'm really interested in this point, so if you can tell me, I'd be very pleased!

A very interesting point which hadn't occurred to me! Kudos.

I'd guess that Lucius had been told to keep it completely secret, hence couldn't tell Draco anything. Draco was certainly enjoying see Umbridge give Harry hell, whereas if he knew that Harry was supposed to be able to get away he'd surely be uneasy about the way things were going. One possible counter-point, though, is the fact that the other four were able to escape from Draco & Co and go to help Harry despite being gagged, pinioned, and outnumbered - it did seem a little too easy.

In general, I think Draco clearly knows something about his father's plans, even if Lucius doesn't take him completely into his confidence. Draco obviously knows at least that his father is a supporter of Voldemort, and seems to be of the same mind - e.g. see his rant to Harry on the train at the end of GoF. He seems to be told what is going on in outline, even if not in detail - e.g. in CoS he knows about the secret chamber under the floor of their mansion full of Dark Arts stuff, and that there is some plot going on with the heir of Slytherin and that he should keep out of it.

I don't think they'll be given veritaseranum (sp) but they might keep a close eye on them or something...

I dont think they'd use vertasium either. Draco doesn't know Voldemort's master plan, but just like the outline. He probably knew somewhat about Voldemort's plan to lure Harry out of Hogwarts, but not much. He probably was trying to get Harry out of there, but he didn't want to give out that Lucius is a Death Eater and keep the Malfoy name good within the MoM

I doubt the children of Death Eaters can offer much information in terms of Voldemort's plans. The only thing they probably know for certain is that their parents support Voldemort; it would be very foolish for someone like Lucius Malfoy or Crabbe Senior to give their sons too much information when they're so close (proximity wise) to Dumbledore.

Dumbledore isn't the kind of person to use intrusive methods to get information out of people. It wouldn't be at all ethical for him to use Veritaserum or Legilimency to find out the truth. Besides, he probably wants to keep the children of Death Eaters at Hogwarts so he can keep an eye on them and attempt to persuade them of their parents' errors in judgement.

Yep. At the very least, he is offering them the choice of another path.

I think Draco knows more than the other kids. It's not likely Pansy Parkinson is going to sneak letters around but Draco did know Sirius was an animagus. He'll provide information his father needs if he can.
He also told Harry that it was happening and he had warned him not to hang out with riff-raff like Hermione and Ron.

Ah... but he also expressed frustration that his father wouldn't tell him more about the Chamber of Secrets, and instead ordered him to keep his head down and let the Heir of Slytherin "get on with it." Clearly, he didn't know Lucius left the diary in Ginny's cauldron.

Ah... but he also expressed frustration that his father wouldn't tell him more about the Chamber of Secrets, and instead ordered him to keep his head down and let the Heir of Slytherin "get on with it." Clearly, he didn't know Lucius left the diary in Ginny's cauldron.

His dad wouldn't risk telling anyone what he did, not even his own son.

It still would be terrible investigative work not to question Draco regardless of his preceived innocence.

Draco knew what the death eaters were doing at the Quidditch world championships. He was seen standing in the trees laughing with a smirk on his face as the death eaters conjured the dark mark and people were being dangled against their will 30ft in the air. While everybody was running for their lives, Draco was enjoying the events. Hardly innocent behavior if you ask me. Draco definetely knows something.

As much as I despise Snape, he is well-positioned to keep tabs on Draco. The two have a comfortable relationship and as Snape is head of Slytherin House and a "friend" of Lucius Malfoy, it seems likely Draco will turn to him if Lucius stays locked up for a while.

Dumbledore isn't the kind of person to use intrusive methods to get information out of people. It wouldn't be at all ethical for him to use Veritaserum or Legilimency to find out the truth.
Um - what about when he used Veritaserum on Barty Crouch Jr? Or "persuaded" Kreacher to tell the truth? Or all those times he's stared into people's eyes in a rather Legilmency-like way? OK, I can't see him using torture or even the Imperius curse, but lie-detector type methods, yes - looks like he's willing to take the gloves off to a certain extent in suitable situations.

Besides, he probably wants to keep the children of Death Eaters at Hogwarts so he can keep an eye on them and attempt to persuade them of their parents' errors in judgement.
Yes, that's likely - it would fit with his general rule of giving people chances. I doubt he'll have much luck with Malfoy; Crabbe and Goyle I don't know, they seem too thick to make a difference (offhand, I can't remember either of them having any actual dialogue). Nott doesn't seem to be one of Malfoy's gang - he never seemed to hang around with him anywhere - so might well turn out to be the "good Slytherin".

Should the children of the death eaters not be under some sort of observation? Or put through the veritiserium to gain more information? There is no doubt that Draco, Crabbe and Goyle have information about many things.
I can't help but to think, that in the muggle world that if the parents of a muggle child of the age of 15 were convicted of murder and/or attempted murder that their children would also be questioned. I hope this does not become a loose end. Any thoughts?

1. Under observation? Does this not sound like racial profiling? That's basically saying that since your father/mother committed crimes, we think you're going to do the same in the future and that's why we're keeping close tabs on you.

2. They should be interviewed and asked to cooperate if their parents have been apprehended by aurors and need to be taken to trial. I wonder if we will see this in book 6 with the characters you've mentioned? How would JKR convey these scenes, though? Wouldn't Harry have to be present? Perhaps not, but if JKR suddenly relays a significant scene like an interrogation without using Harry's focalization of the event, the storytelling style will be completely different and might even appear contrived.

3. To force somone to take veritaserum to see if they have any info about their parents sounds very wrong to me. It's not the questioning the children part, rather it's the potion part that bothers me because it takes away the person's ability to act according to their own conscience.

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Good point about Snape keeping tabs on Draco Malfoy, purplehawk.

Ah... but he also expressed frustration that his father wouldn't tell him more about the Chamber of Secrets, and instead ordered him to keep his head down and let the Heir of Slytherin "get on with it." Clearly, he didn't know Lucius left the diary in Ginny's cauldron.

He didn't want Draco to be accused of doing it and he didn't want it traced back to him. Draco couldn't be trusted not to brag about it if he had known.
He had no use for Draco in that situation either.
He could use Draco now though. He did tell him about Hagrid and the giants.

He sure could, Weatherby. In fact, he also told Draco about Sirius-as-Snuffles the Great Black Dog. I also had the feeling there had been communication between father and son right after Voldemort's rebirthing in the cemetery. Draco was certainly swaggering about on the train back to London.

Exactly. Draco knows quite a bit. He probably doesn't know anything about the prophecy but he would know things that could help him report things useful to Daddy if he spotted them.
Crabbe and Goyle are probably just around to make things difficult for Harry and to protect Draco.

I think Lucius does use his son for his own personal agenda if not necessarily for Voldemort.

maybe they do have an eye on them and thats why they were excepted to hogwarts i mean goyle and crabbe r pretty dumb

plus just b/c some children of death eaters are bad doesnt men they all are.

not everyone models after there parents

luv rachel

I would be surprised that the parents would tell their kids anything in fear of people torturing them or using vertersium (sp?).

Dumbledore would never torture one of his students at Hogwarts. All students are protected under his very own codes and besides it goes against what the sorting hat stated. That the four houses need to unite under one seal, just like in the shield. I don't think that torturing the DE children because there in slytherin is a sign of being united under one shield.

I also think that when the four house finally do become and work together as one, the coat of armours might be some sort of guide to another shield spell. The coat of arms, shows the four house standing side by side and within a shield, so I think that means something magically.

There is no way Dumbledore will let anyone use vertersium on anyone of his students.:)

yea but i think students in hogwarts should learn unforgivable curses... after all.. the second war begins i bet there is gonna be a major battle between voldemort and harry. after all the prophecy says the one will have to kill each other [I] neither can live while the other dies so if harry is going to kill voldemort he better learn now.

Sorry to dredge up this old thing, but you don't have to reply, I just sort of thought it was interesting.

In the past, I've always been a champion of Draco's redemption, but my teacher (We're analysing PS.) brought up an interesting point.

We've all seen Harry, Neville, Hermione, etc. maturing. But, even I noticed this, didn't Draco and co. get left in the dust, yep. I mentioned this in my review of the book, it bugged me. All the "light" characters mature, while the "dark" ones just stay the same, at least, in most cases, with the children.

My teacher said perhaps it was because it was all predestined. That even though in PS, they were all kids just starting school, they had some idea of who the were. Draco wanted to be in Slytherin, and Harry oh-so-didn't. Perhaps, Draco will never change because he'll always be a Malfoy (he can't change his last name, or can he? Tom Riddle did.), someone of bad faith. Harry can choose his destiny because his is a common name, not binding him to anything.

I do not like this idea, as it trashes the whole, it matters not what you are born but what you become. My counterargument was that his first name, meaning serpent, could spare him. People usually associate serpents with evil, but there are two serpents, entertwined (end of OoTP), like the sign representing medicine, which don't just represent evil, but another side to the serpent.

I don't think they should be taught the unforgivable curses. I really don't think DD would allow it either. It's like sinking to the level of the DE's. Do you really think the kids of the DE's'll be watched? Well, yes, probably, but how? I mean, like how in their common rooms 'n stuff?

I dont think it would be fair to question younger children because afterall you cant help who your paretns are and your parents could do a good job keeping things secret! in malfoy crabbe and goyles case though id drwon them in veritasium!

Dumbledore wouldn't use anything on the students to retract information unless it was a circumstance such as Crouch Jr. pretending to be Moody and harming Harry.
That's a crime.
He wouldn't approve of using methods if they hadn't done anything.
Draco gets away with a lot of petty crimes and I don't see anyone stepping in now.

If crabe and goyle are death eaters why are they aloud at hogwarts ?

A Dark Arts club to counter Harry's DA sounds typical of something Draco might do; especially, after the way the DA harassed/challenged Draco, Crabe, and Goyle near the end of OotP. But after thinking about it, would it make sense to create a Dark Arts club within Slytherin when they are already so isolated from the other houses? Yet, it would be interesting to see what happens if Draco gained allies outside of Slytherin.

I mean the war with the Vouldermort is hotting up and there keeping the children of his henchmen in school. Is it becuse they have done no crimes themselfs?

plus none of the students gives them funny looks.....

Well, the whole school doesn't know much about Voldemort rising do they?
The ministry doesn't even know about the Malfoy's, therefore they'd have no reason. Maybe now when everyone finds out, but not yet.

The students haven't done anything wrong. So it'd be really wrong to expell the students with parents on the Dark Side. Even if they could be part of one of Voldemort's many foiled plans, Dumbledore doesn't have proof.

Exax=ctly, they have no real proof yet, especially against the students.

Well, the whole school doesn't know much about Voldemort rising do they?
The ministry doesn't even know about the Malfoy's, therefore they'd have no reason. Maybe now when everyone finds out, but not yet.
Oh they know about the Malfoys all right...the lock up Lucius at the end of book 5. And I'm sure near everyone in the school has heard about Voldemort's plans through the grapevine already....rumors ALWAYS travel fast around schools :p

D, All of the above, is my anwer lol. There is absolutely no proof and none of the kids have done anything wrong. Innocent until proven guilty, correct?

Obviously the ministry is completely oblivious (or maybe in denial) about the fact that Lucius is a deatheater....well not anymore I guess. Fudge was awfully close the Lucius in book 5

the deatheaters always wore hoods and junk...and im sore some are still unidentefied for what they truly are...and as for their children...I suppose it would be wrong to expell someone jsut because of their parentage...not all kids take after their parents. Though it isnt likely, theres a chance that a deatheaters child would utterly despise the dark arts, making it pointless to expell them (and being expelled for being a deatheater's child may drive them to become death eaters themselves),

Oh they know about the Malfoys all right...the lock up Lucius at the end of book 5. And I'm sure near everyone in the school has heard about Voldemort's plans through the grapevine already....rumors ALWAYS travel fast around schools :p

They did???
i haven't read OotP in awhile.
Man i have to re-read that.
I feel sorry for Draco now. Maybe he will change.

Maybe because the children have no control over their parents actions? And maybe just because someone's parents may be cold blooded murderers it doesn't mean the child is? That's why we all have our OWN brains! I admit, some children will get a bit rude to Malfoy from the beginning of book 6, especially the non pure bloods, but Malfoy's brought that on himself - discriminating all the half-bloods. If he walked around saying "Blood doesn't matter we're all friends" then I'm sure no-one would care about his father being a Death Eater, but his attitude towards Hermione proves that he shares that belief, but still Draco's not a murderer or anything! The Death Eaters have only been arrested right at the end of book 5, so book 6 will bring on more about the children of Death Eaters.

I look at it this way. If we believe that Dumbledore truly trusts and believes that Snape was able to have a change of heart than that's perhaps why he has chosen to let the children of the DE's to stay in school. He's hoping these children will not be the same.

DD is all about "making choices" in life, and he stresses that often. Maybe he's hoping that by reiterating that point he'll be able to show these children that they need not make the same choices as their parents.

In addition, a lot of these students are only fledgling wizards and witches. Hermione, Ron, Harry, and even Draco are abnormally powerful for their ages, so the other children are probably not as big of a risk to have around as well.

I think the last thing the wizarding world needs is for the Death Eaters to go out and found their own school because all their kids got expelled! At least while they're at Hogwarts, the kids have a fighting chance at growing up to be decent people.

We haven't seen much of what's going on in the school since it became "official" that Voldemort really had returned, so we'll probably see a lot more of how the pupils who have convicted Death Eater family are being treated and treating others.

I agree it would be unfair to remove them from the school since they can't be held accountable for their parents actions. Dumbledore probably hopes that they can be swayed from following in their family's footsteps. There could be an unforeseen effect in that the Death Eater's children are bullied, seeing as they are in the minority in the school, this could be dangerous as it would certaintly draw them together and make them hate their fellow pupils.

For a real life example, do schools kick out kids who has a parent in jail? Nope.

plus none of the students gives them funny looks.....

I got the severe impression though that the rest of the school is cautious of Slytherin. Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, and Gryffindor all rooted for Gryffindor in the third year house cup.

I doubt though that even most of the kids can name five deatheaters off the top of their heads in Hogwarts. Another real life example pertaining to that, most people can't name five terrorists either. They know Osama, and the train stops there.

There's an old saying, Italian I think, "Keep your friends close to you and your enemies even closer." they certainly have no better place to be and if they are showing sympathies toward LV, then Snape and others are perfectly positioned to neutralize their effects - or even gain info on what the DEs are up to by monitoring them.

the deatheaters always wore hoods and junk...and im sore some are still unidentefied for what they truly are...and as for their children...I suppose it would be wrong to expell someone jsut because of their parentage...not all kids take after their parents. Though it isnt likely, theres a chance that a deatheaters child would utterly despise the dark arts, making it pointless to expell them (and being expelled for being a deatheater's child may drive them to become death eaters themselves),
Sirius rejected his family's ideology and leanings towards DE activity.

I think that just like with Diggory's death, the student body doesn't quite believe what's going on until they can go home to their families and get "the full dirt".

To be honest, I expect there to be equal amounts of animosity towards Harry as the DE's children. Mostly b/c many people would come to conclusion that Voldemort is back to get Harry.

One thing I have read a long long time ago was that someone commented on how there were no Slytherins in the DA-this person was commenting on another person's praise of Harry getting the school to unite. I think that that exclusion was very deliberate on the part of Rowling and I think that it ties in with this discussion.

It is said that hardly anybody who has gone bad was not in Slytherin, so, for "Decent" folk, this would strongly suggest that anyone in Slytherin is mean, toadish, cruel and most likely a DE in training. Unworthy of "good deeds" done unto them and not worth approaching to include in such activities as the DA.

I do not think the student body would be too surprised to learn that these students' parents are DE's, I think that if anything they will just avoid them even more and be even more judgemental.

I think there is something in this and that Harry and crew will learn a huge lesson about it in the 6/7th book.

Sirius rejected his family's ideology and leanings towards DE activity.

I think that just like with Diggory's death, the student body doesn't quite believe what's going on until they can go home to their families and get "the full dirt".

To be honest, I expect there to be equal amounts of animosity towards Harry as the DE's children. Mostly b/c many people would come to conclusion that Voldemort is back to get Harry.

One thing I have read a long long time ago was that someone commented on how there were no Slytherins in the DA-this person was commenting on another person's praise of Harry getting the school to unite. I think that that exclusion was very deliberate on the part of Rowling and I think that it ties in with this discussion.

It is said that hardly anybody who has gone bad was not in Slytherin, so, for "Decent" folk, this would strongly suggest that anyone in Slytherin is mean, toadish, cruel and most likely a DE in training. Unworthy of "good deeds" done unto them and not worth approaching to include in such activities as the DA.

I do not think the student body would be too surprised to learn that these students' parents are DE's, I think that if anything they will just avoid them even more and be even more judgemental.

I think there is something in this and that Harry and crew will learn a huge lesson about it in the 6/7th book.

i did say that it was possible to reject the habits of their parents, but not exactly the most common thing...but i do agree with you that harry will be the recipient of as much animosity as the children of death eaters. and i agree with the lesson learning..as these stories deal not only with good versus evil, but also with prejudice...and i think that all the students will learn about that in the end.

I suppose it's maybe because Dumbledore treats everyone as equals, and probably thinks that they should be given a chance. All the Deatheater's children don't have to follow the role of their parents.

I agree that the children shouldnt suffer their parent's actions but with the arrest of SOME of the Death Eaters at the end of OoTP brings a lot of problems. I, first of all, see something happening between lucius and the ministry. We know that he has ridiculous amounts of money and has given much of it to the ministry, along with kissing up to many of the important people there. Also, he seems to be a very powerful man and I'm sure many people are afriad of him...remember his removal of Dumbledore in CoS. The Dementors have now left Azkaban, and I just don't see the captured De's staying in there very long. History will repeat itself and it will be as it was when Voldemort was very powerful before. Despite all of this, none of the children should suffer, it will actually be interesting to see where Draco ends up at the end of all of this. Ok Im done rambling:)

DD probley has them away from the DEing parents

Ya know, even though Draco IS quite an evil little child, that's not a reason to kick him out of school. I mean, axe murderer's children are allowed to stay at school in the Muggle world. It's not fair to punish the children for their parents mistakes, even if they AREN'T the nicest kids in the world. Their personality is irrelevant tothe whole situation.

Well the arrests came at the end of te year after thier OWL tests. Wouldnt have been any point to have kicked them out really. That and the fact that the kids themselves havent done anything. They might have WANTED to but they havent. Also you must REALLY got to do some foul stuff to get booted out of school. Look at the different stuff that both sides have done and Detention or points is the only thing that has happened.

Amen, Bee:)

'Innocent until proven guilty' and 'The world is not divided into good people and Death Eaters' might help you here. Just because they're the children of DEs, doesn't mean they are DEs. They can be some of the nastiest children in the world (take Draco for example) but unless they've committed some crime of their own (not something Daddy or Mommy did) there is no reason for them to be expelled. Take Theodore Nott for example; we know his father is a DE, but we haven't seen Theo do anything wrong. Why should he be punished for his father's crimes?

Punishing a child for his/her parents' crimes is like saying someone is innocent because their parents are innocent. 'Oh, don't throw Barty Crouch Jr. in jail, Crouch Sr. didn't do anything wrong, so Junior must not have done anything wrong either.' Same idea here. It's just stupid to assume a child is good or bad because of what the parents have done.

'Innocent until proven guilty' and 'The world is not divided into good people and Death Eaters'

I agree. These children are not responsible for thier parents crime. Sirius did reject his parents ideology, but remember he was sorted into Griffyndor. Slytherins are a different type of person, ambitious and cunning. But Dumbledor is all about choices, as said above. He would not simply expell his students on such grounds. That and they do offer Hogwarts some protection from the Deatheaters. As loyal to Voldemort as they are, would they attack the place where their children are?

Unless you're one of the death eaters or have seen the death eaters, there isn't much proof that the DE's even exsist! I kind of took your question two ways...

Way 1: Why are the DEs keeping their kids at hogwarts
My theory: They are acting as spys. Especially Malfoy... He keeps a constant eye on Snape (do we know if any DE is suspicious of him?) and he can keep a GREAT eye on Harry. They can always report to their parents by owl and not look suspicious.

Way 2: Why is DD keeping them at hogwarts
My Theory: Technically, he can't prove they are involved in any way with DEs and even if he could the DEs could certainly deny it which would jeprodize his position as Headmaster and thats the last thing the school needs. Also, maybe DD sees how having DE kids in the school could HELP... I mean, maybe they are sending out clues without realizing it that lets DD know that Voldy really is back.

That question is a hard one. Should you condemn someone because of his/her parents' actions and be safe or keep them and nurture a quite considerable threat. Personally I believe that Draco plus his hard core gang of Slytherins are ticking time bombs. True, Draco hasn't done anything yet (emphasize on yet!!!), but that doesn't mean he won't. Yet, I agree, innocent until proven guilty (counts in the real world as well, or almost anybody would be arrested for some crime he MIGHT commit in the future). Nevertheless, I'd try to get rid of Malfoy at least. He's used malevolent spells on students already (even if the consequences weren't that terrible so far) and will probably to go some lenghts to get what he wants. One of the reasons why Dumbledore hasn't done that so far is that he thinks that Harry can handle him so far. Also, that man REALLY believes in second chances and Draco might turn out okay (but that isn't very likely). Let's wait and see what happens next.

wouldn't the ministry already know about the Malfoys because I thought Ron said he was going to write to his dad to check under the Malfoy's drawing room for their stash of dark stuff after he and harry took the polyjuice potion

wouldn't the ministry already know about the Malfoys because I thought Ron said he was going to write to his dad to check under the Malfoy's drawing room for their stash of dark stuff after he and harry took the polyjuice potion

Well, the importance of Mr. Weasley's office isn't that great. Remember, when Diggory Sr. sent him to help fake Moody he said something about putting him on a minor charge, so even if you have enchanted muggle artifacts it doesn't seem to be that great of a deal. Lucius probably gave one or two sacks of galleons more to the ministry and settled it that way.

yeah i suppose your right

(bloody lucius)

Expulsion notwithstanding, it's going to be interesting to see if any DE pull their children out to send them to Durmstang now that everything has hit the fan.

Unless you're one of the death eaters or have seen the death eaters, there isn't much proof that the DE's even exsist! I kind of took your question two ways...

Way 1: Why are the DEs keeping their kids at hogwarts
My theory: They are acting as spys. Especially Malfoy... He keeps a constant eye on Snape (do we know if any DE is suspicious of him?) and he can keep a GREAT eye on Harry. They can always report to their parents by owl and not look suspicious.

That would be a good idea...Dumbledore would know which students then are the eyes and ears. Better to identify the other side's spies and feed them only info you want them to know than to remove that spy and perhaps have them replaced with somebody/a method you wouldn't expect.

That's my thought on the Snape/Malfoy relationship. Lucius being a DE and a nasty git and Malfoy who always seems to scream "I am a child who just needs a hug and some gentle, approving attention". Snape dotes on Malfoy...perfect priming for when he wants to ask Malfoy about his father's movements.

exactly it could be as simple as 'so draco, what's your father been up to lately?'

In GOF, Draco Malfoy commented on how he had wished to go to Durmstrang because they actually teach the dark arts, but his mother wanted him to go to school in the country. If Malfoy was expelled from Hogwarts, then he woud have a reason to go to Durmstrang and actually learn dark arts. At Hogwarts he won't learn dark arts.

Hogwarts and Death Eaters’ children (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=455)

I believe this thread already covers the topic, perhaps a merge?

I don't see why kids should be punished (and throwing them out of school is punishment) for the mistakes their parents made.

well look at draco malfoy, vincent crabbe, and gregory goyle. THEY should definately be punished because they're as bad as their parents are

well look at draco malfoy, vincent crabbe, and gregory goyle. THEY should definately be punished because they're as bad as their parents are

I don't think they've actually tortured and killed muggles or muggle-born. Granted they've been bullies, but they have not used an unforgivable curse in school. This is currently the major difference between the parents and children. Until the moment they cross the legal line, Draco and his crew are still just prats.

Ah, Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle have never used one of the forbidden curses on someone...and yet Harry has...

that's just interesting to me :)

You CANNOT punish children for what their parents have done or for what their parents are. That's wrong!