Underground Lake #17 - Mysteries Unveiled Part Deux

Discussion for The Underground Lake #17 - Mysteries Unveiled Part Deux: The Choices of the Headmaster (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/theundergroundlake/tul17.shtml) by Brandon Ford.

Hm... I like the theory. I also think the idea of Harry tackling Voldemort into the veil is very amusing. XD The veil is obviously very important... but why would Gringotts have a veil? That's just slightly... odd. It's like the goblins expect people to die in their bank?

Once again you have written a thought provoking tread . I think you are right about there being more than just one veil in the world , as for your idea of Harry pushing Voldemort through the veil. Well I've thought that was probably the only way that Harry could kill Voldemort seeing as Voldemort is so much more knowledgeable about magic , and dark magic at that ,that I felt all along that Harry could only win by the use of brute force or muggle fighting skills not by magic alone . So pushing Voldemort through the veil makes sense to me. :tu: :clap: :agree:

Excellent editorial as usual. :)

Dumbledore knows EXACTLY what's going on. I think that Dumbledore is simply in the awkward position of playing chess with time and having to think of moves years ahead. This is why Dumbledore allowed (and I do mean allowed) Umbridge to teach at his school. The wheels had to be put in motion for the final confrontation. Harry had to start the DA and learn to become a leader. Ron had to be attacked by a brain (which I think will definitely come into play later). And most importantly, SIRIUS HAD TO FALL THROUGH THE VEIL! Why did Sirius have to fall through the veil? To show Harry the way. -from the editorial

I COMPLETELY agree with this! We can see leadership skills portrayed like this in alot of folklore and fiction. Merlin, and the Lady of the Lake (Arthurian legend) come to mind. Great leaders must think (as you said) YEARS ahead. Seemingly "chosen" by God, or the Fates, or whatever, leaders like Dumbledore must come to terms with some hard choices; they must manipulate, they must "play chess" with the human race, specifically those who can change/alter it. Not because he is mean spirited or essentially manipulative; but because he possesses a certain wisdom, genius, and "gift". I have the idea that Dumbledore doesn't exactly relish having to "use" people...but he must if the greater good shall triumph. Bit of a grey area there, eh? I wouldn't want to be in that position---it must be very lonely. Full of hard choices...something Dumbledore knows all about.

As for Snape not getting the DADA position; I think you're half right. The wheels DID need to be put into motion...certain things needed to happen. Dumbledore saw that. Otherwise why would he LET Fudge put a bigoted, biased, hateful creature like Umbridge in a position of power? But, I do think there is more to it than that. I think that the mystery that is Severus Snape will come into play somewhere.

As far as Snape and his teaching skills...I think you maybe underestimate him. It is VERY true that he is not a personable, effective teacher---as you said he plays favorites, he undermines students' confidence, etc. BUT - that doesn't change the fact that Snape is a Potions Master, and a Master Legillemens/Occlumens. He is, within his subjects, a brilliant man, albeit a nasty one. And although he is all these things, it is unfair to say that the student body doesn't learn anything in his classes...they do. Even so, why DOES Dumbledore keep him around when he is so hateful towards the students? Is it protection, as you stated? Possibly that's part of it, but I think there's more.

As for the final confrontation(s). I loved your take on things! Of course, I can't really bring myself to believe anyone's theories on that aspect of the story. I just don't know how JKR will pull it off, and I can't wait!!!

Wonderful editorial! Full of juicy details to debate and discuss!

Interesting article. I never thought about having to force Voldemort through the veil and i like the idea. A little off topic but if voldemort and harry do duel then i think that either harry or voldemort will have to be using a different wand or else priori incantatem will happen again. that is of course its a formal duel and one doesnt get the other unexpectedly.

I do like the idea of the veil to kill voldemort as it's kinda non-violent. While we saw aspects of Harrys temper in OotP you can never imagin him killing in cold blood, even after Sirius' "death" with all that emotion raging in him
"SHE KILLED SIRIUS" bellowed Harry "SHE KILLED HIM - I'LL KILL HER" OotP pg 713
But yet when the time came all he did with that hatred was use the crucio curse and not very well.

As for Snape i felt the reason for keeping him out of the DADA position was so when Snape went back to his undercover work as a deatheater he wouldn't tempt Voldemort into tampering with the teaching of DADA much like he did through Crouch in GoF

All and all a really thought provoking thread always a pleasure to read

the veil thing MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. omigawd! i mean, it never even occured to me that voldie might be putting spells on himself again to protect himself from dying. why did it never occur to me? so he DOES have to fall thru the veil... this actually matches another one of the editorials i read once. it was about jkr putting "useless" information in certain books, only for us to realize that the information becomes huge two books after that. example, the concept of animagi is already shown to us in book 1, but for no apparent reason. in bk 3, we see that being animagi plays a HUGE role in the plot. the polyjuice potion was introduced in book 2, and look how big a role that potion took in book 4! the editorial was actually focusing more on the metamorphmagus concept; the writer was saying that since it came out in book 5, it would be crucial in book 7. AND THE VEIL THING FITS RIGHT IN! she introduces us to the veil in book and 5, and in book 7, thats how voldie dies! its genius!

however, i still stand by my stand (haha) that harry won't die, so i guess ill just have to imagine him somehow pushing voldie in, silly as it may look.

I think there's one or two flaws. Like Dumbledore know where the chamber of secrets was. Fawkes didn't go through another passage way, he sort of Pheonix apparated because if you remember in OotP Fawkes explodes in fire leaving behind a single feather when sent with a message to Mrs Wealsey. So it's likely than Fawkes sensed Harry's location and went to it.

This then raises alot of doubt about Dumbledore's omnicence, why if Sirius was meant to die did He want Harry to close his mind?

Now while I do agree with you on somepoints, and Snape is a terible reacher and if that was me i would have reported him to Dumbledore years go. But i think alot of people give Dumbledore a little too much credite althouth he definately does have an overall scheme and maybe the DA was in his mind.

I don't know, Dumbledore certainly seemed to regret that Sirius died, and acted as if he thought that his death was unnecessary. I also don't think even Dumbledore could see that someday Harry would end up seeing someone get shoved through the veil. Didn't he say that he should have told Harry the truth from the start so Harry would never have been tricked into going to the Department of Mysteries.

But I agree that Voldemort could be killed by being shoved through the veil. The veil and memory charms are the only things that could work against Voldemort at this point, unless Dumbledore teaches Harry some real powerful magic.

Actually I have my own theory on how they could level the playing field: in Book 6 both Harry and Voldemort duel and both their wands blow up (in Book 4 when they duelled Harry thought that his wand was ready to explode.) Dumbledore will sacrifice himself to get Harry back to Hogwarts, where McGonagall and Snape will give him the replacement wand that Dumbledore had Ollivanders make years ago. Since Voldemort can't get another feather from Fawkes, he can't get a replacement wand so he'll use another one...

I loved this editorial, as I love all of the ones you write! They're very thought provoking. I loved this theory, and I've always thought that Dumbledore does know EVERYthing that's going on, but I liked what you said about Dumbledore always meaning more than one thing when he speaks, that's very interesting.
I also really like the veil idea, I had never thought of it before that there would be more than one veil, but now that you've mentioned it, it seems extremely possible. I think we're going to learn a lot more about that veil in the next two books.

Good job, keep it up!!

Snape is obviously the Wolfgang Puck of potions. Even Lupin admits that Snape is one of the few that can brew the Wofsbane potion for him. As for Hermione brewing the Polyjuice Potion, there's not much that she can't do. She's a very advanced witch for her age.

Dumbledore knows a lot and guesses more, but I don't think he knows everything. He knows pretty much what Harry is doing because he's a Legilimens himself. And if he had allowed himself to have contact with Harry, he would have known what Harry was going through in OotP. But let's allow JKR some literary license.

As you mentioned, Trelawny saying beyond the veil into the future or something like that (I should have written it down) could be very important. Could Trelawny be the contact with Sirius and James and Lily behind the veil? Hermione blew off Trelawny as an old fraud, and this is one time she could have been wrong.

As for LV and Harry falling through the veil together ... could be. Sherlock Holmes fell over the cliff with his arch-enemy Moriarity. Then Holmes turned up years later in Europe in disguise, I think playing the violin as a gypsy. Holmes buffs can correct me on that. So, Harry being happy when he thought he was going to join Sirius in Ootp could foreshadow this. Sirius and his parents could be telling him that they're waiting for him and it will be alright to fall through the veil with LV (choking up here).

Interesting theory about why Snape wasn't DADA. Could be true.

I think the idea of forcing V through the veil is a nifty one. However, I don't understand why people say Harry would never use Avada Kedavra. If pushing V through the veil kills him, then it's no different from AK. If Harry pushes him through, he obviously has the will to kill him. And Harry's going to have to have the will to kill him (unless Gollum shows up and knocs V into the volcanic fire). He didn't against Bellatrix, but he'd never tried an AK before and, of course, against Voldemort the stakes will be higher. We keep hearing that Harry's greatest strength is love. If he refuses to kill Voldemort (who is a killer), thereby guaranteeing major disaster for everyone he loves, then he doesn't really love them.

I'm a firm believer in the theory that Harry has to sacrifice himself to get rid of Voldy. I do think that Harry could try the AK on Voldy (he was ready to kill Bella after Sirius fell through the veil " She killed him - I'll kill her" pg 809 OotP), BUT it wouldn't work for 2 reasons:
1) Harry doesn't have it in him to do it. By that I mean he couldn't put enough behind the curse to actually make it work - he couldn't even do Crucio. I'm sure he'd get the hang of it if he practiced, but I doubt he would and if the first time he tried it was on Voldy, I doubt he would, as imposter Moody said, "get so much as a nose bleed."
2) Voldy has his old body back, and presumably, his old protections. Ak didn't work on him the first time, so I doubt a second attempt might be much better - even with Harry's blood in his veins. Plus, Harry's blood confers Voldy a bit of extra protection as well.(I've got other theories about the look of triumph, so I don't think Harry's blood now makes him human enough to die, but i digress). So the best case scenario there is back to Vapormort, and that's assuming Harry got to cast the spell to a wandless Voldy! Highly unlikely....

We all know that Harry has got a "hero complex" and I am sure that he would sacrifice himself if it meant a safer world for everyone. Maybe through the veil, maybe some other way - but I do agree it will be while Voldy is trying to possess Harry that they both will be done in.

BTW - this is my fav column - I like the way you're thinking!

Maybe the real reason Voldemort didn't die when he attacked Harry is because when the spell backfired, a part of his essence stayed in Harry. We've already seen that the two are connected, and that even Dumbledore thinks he transferred some of his powers to Harry - why not a part of what makes him whole. Maybe Voldemort's essence tried to get through the veil at first, but couldn't because it wasn't all there. part of it was still trapped in Harry.

If the veil is what kills Voldemort in the end, then I see it happening this way - Harry and Voldemort both fall into the veil, but not beig able to differentiate between the two, it takes all of Voldemort and spits Harry out the other side. It's possible that the veil could only take one soul at a time and it chose the stronger of the two.

It all makes sense. But if Voldemort has to die by falling through the veil, then what difference would it make if he had a part of Harry's body or not? Obviously he has to have a body, but what is the gleam of Triumph about in Dumbledore's eyes? Voldemort said he wanted Harry's blood, not Bertha Jorkins' or anyone else's, because then he too would be protected by Lily's protection. Obviously Dumbledore knows something that Voldemort doesn't, and that's why he was happy then. But I think the blood protection and Harry's specific blood being used to make Voldemort rise is important. Something else has to happen before Voldemort goes through the veil.

Voldemort said he wanted Harry's blood, not Bertha Jorkins' or anyone else's, because then he too would be protected by Lily's protection. Obviously Dumbledore knows something that Voldemort doesn't, and that's why he was happy then. But I think the blood protection and Harry's specific blood being used to make Voldemort rise is important. Something else has to happen before Voldemort goes through the veil.

Actually, Voldemort wanted Harry's blood so he would no longer be prevented from touching Harry, but in doing so, he also took in a little bit of Harry - very much how Harry has a little bit of Voldemort in him. Like the Protean charm, maybe there's some way Harry will charm himself that will affect Voldemort since he has part of Harry in him, even though it resides in another wizard's body.

Rowling told us that it was going to be important later that Lily was very good at charms, maybe this is part of the protection she offered to Harry along with her love.

Interesting theory about why Snape wasn't DADA. Could be true.

I think the idea of forcing V through the veil is a nifty one. However, I don't understand why people say Harry would never use Avada Kedavra. If pushing V through the veil kills him, then it's no different from AK. If Harry pushes him through, he obviously has the will to kill him. And Harry's going to have to have the will to kill him (unless Gollum shows up and knocs V into the volcanic fire). He didn't against Bellatrix, but he'd never tried an AK before and, of course, against Voldemort the stakes will be higher. We keep hearing that Harry's greatest strength is love. If he refuses to kill Voldemort (who is a killer), thereby guaranteeing major disaster for everyone he loves, then he doesn't really love them.

I disagree. I think to use the killing curse you have to kill in cold blood. Bellatrix tells Harry "You need to mean them (the unforgivable curses), Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- To enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me long"

I think in order to effectively use the killing curse you need to do so with the intent to murder, not for self-protection, or out of righteousness or neccesity. Therefore I doubt Harry would be able to perform a effective killing curse without becoming more callous than he is now. I mean heck the boy let the man who betrayed his parents, resulting in their deaths, leave unharmed by Sirus and Lupin.

Also Harry has never been good at controlling his emotions, we see this in his occlumency lessons with Snape and his inability to keep his mouth shut in Umbridge's class. So I just cannot imagine Harry becoming unfeeling and cold blooded enough to pull off a killing curse.

Therefore I have always believed Harry will defeat LV through an act of self-sacrifice. So I think pushing LV through the veil is really pausable and a great theory. After all Dumbledore said that "In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you" I think it is Harry's heart that will be important in the end and the idea of Harry sacrificing himself seems to fit so well with the themes of the book. Whether Harry remains dead or not I have not completely decided, but I believe he will take out himself if it means destorying LV.

because if you remember in OotP Fawkes explodes in fire leaving behind a single feather when sent with a message to Mrs Wealsey. So it's likely than Fawkes sensed Harry's location and went to it. - From above

I agree on that front.

This was a great article! I agree on the front that Voldemort has to go through the veil. JKR said in an interview that Sirius (though she didn't use his name, as the book wasn't out) had to die. IT HAD TO HAPPEN!

Using that fact, it makes perfect sense that Harry, in a very typical tragic hero move, will sacrifice himself if he knows he can defeat the other person in the process.

Great issue, B!

What a great Editorial!

Yes, how else could Harry kill Voldemort than by sacrificing himself? It is brilliant!

But a lot must happen before we get there. For instance, how could they find themselves in the veil room again?

We know that the part of Voldemort that was left in Harry - the scar - is the source of tremendous pain whenever Voldemort is nearby, and that being possessed by Voldemort hurt so much that it left Harry weak and sick. (Quirrell did not seem to feel this way). Now, as has been mentioned above, Voldemort also has a part of Harry in him - his blood. Maybe Harry can learn how to torture Voldemort with this in same way that he has been tortured by Voldemort.

In fact he already knows how to use it - by feeling love! Furthermore if love - aka the power that Harry has "which the Dark Lord knows not" - is the way to torture Voldemort, then Harry will have to find a way to open that mysterious locked door in the DoM. As Mae stated above, JKR introduces things casually that later become CENTRAL to the plot.

Just suppose for a minute that instead of falling through the veil, Harry was able to push Voldemort through that door. Wouldn't that be sweet justice! And, as Dumbledore said, so much worse than death - at least for Voldemort!

I LIKED your opinion on the subject. however i disagree with a few things.
1) if u recall in GOF, Harry does duel with Voldemort, true its not much of a duel but he does duel and servive. The dark lord uses the ak on Harry and Harry's wand, being from the same bird, protects him. So i think that in a duel everything Voldemort uses against Harry will be useless unless harrys wand is smashed
2) I think that jkrowling has her reasons for not having dumbledore apoint snape to the dada position. She has said in interviews that in book 6 she will explain y dumbledore trusts snape, and in that she will also explain why snape has not been givin the position.
3) As to the vail, you bring up some good points to the breaking of time, past future thing. But as to the whole serius going through the vail to show the way for harry, it might be true but i dont think that harry is going to fall through the vail with voldemort. Plus, if you remimber in OOTP, during the big fight scene with dumbledore vs. voldemort, voldemort does take over harry's mind, in attempt to have dumbledore kill harry by tring to kill him. It is not possible for harry to be taken by voldemort that way because of (quote from dumbledore himself) "harry contains a power that evan voldemort does not have" and that power is what keeps harry safe from being controlled by voldemort. And the whole pushing voldemort into the vail and killing himself thing is not possible, and is clear to see, if u understood what the prophecy means. "one shall not live while the other remains" (or something like that) one of the other has to kill the other for the other to LIVE, for harry to survive (or for voldemort to survive) one must kill the other, and the prophecy says that one of them will live, but one will die by the other. Besides if jkrowling ends the story by having harry comitt suicide by killing voldemort, than the ending will be ruined i think. I think she will create one the most spectacular endings, and by all means surprising endings, ever.

Now i agree with you in that i think dumbledore (although one of my favs and will be sad when this happens) will have to die. It is the only way i see the ending unfolding, because i dont think that voldemort will be able to face harry for basicly human kind with dumbledore in the way, voldemort will not come out of hiding long enough, b/c he knows he cannot defeat dumbledore. So how dumbledore dies i couldnt guess(and i hope he doesnt sacrifice himself like obey-1 did in star wars b/c that would be just lame), i see like a sneak attach or something.

anyways theres my opinion on the subject that i fill i should say at this time, please respond and tell me what u think. l8r

Awesome ideas in the editorial! Although I agree with the overall theme of it, there are some details that I feel are off. I don't think Dumbledore is truly all-knowing, but he is more in tune than most people. I also believe that he will have to die, probably sacrificing himself for Harry.

The way I see it, Harry will have to go into the final battle with a self-sacrificial attitude, and probably a lot of desperation. In order for him to feel so low that he doesn't care a bit what happens to himself, Harry will need to feel alone. Many of his friends will be dead (this could be a possible reason why JKR said Sirius had to die), and those who are left could seek solace in each other and (inadvertantly) leave Harry out. Although Harry will be willing and prepared to sacrifice himself (and I believe the veil set-up is a very possible event, or at least similar to what might happen) I personally believe that he will make it through alive. After all, we don't know everything about the protections Lily and Dumbledore and company have placed on Harry. They could be broader than we realize.

I love this colunm!

I just love the idea of Harry pushing Voldemort through the veil. Its such a muggle thing to do! How ironic! Voldemort fears death and hates anything to do with muggles! It think that'll have to be more to that though, otherwise it's a bit of anti-climax.

I liked this editorial, though I don't agree with everything. First of all, are we sure that Snape does apply for DADA professor every year? I'm under the impression that it's just one of Harry's misconceptions. He's been known to be wrong before. Anyway, it had never crossed my mind before that Dumbledore could've appointed Snape to the position in order to avoid Umbridge. Interesting concept.

Secondly, regarding Harry and Voldemort going through the veil... I think that it would be an effective means of getting rid of Voldemort, but I highly doubt Harry will go through as well. It seems as if it's impossible to come back out once you've gone through, and I don't think Harry will just disappear at the end of book 7. There's that last word to think about - "scar." How could JKR talk about his scar if he was beyond the veil? (Unless it's some other scar, which seems very unlikely.)

I really enjoyed this editorial. A lot of the ideas presented are very plausible. I 100% agree that Harry is not well-trained enough yet to take on Voldemort in a duel and won't be by the end of book 7. A lot of people think that Voldemort and Harry can't duel each other because of the matching wands. But I disagree. I think that prior incantatum is only invoked when the spells are simultaneously issued from the wands and collide in mid-air. Voldemort was able to hit Harry with several spells in the graveyard, so that is proof that Voldemort could AK Harry.

I also like the idea of Harry using the veil to get rid of Voldemort.

I just love the idea of Harry pushing Voldemort through the veil. Its such a muggle thing to do! How ironic! Voldemort fears death and hates anything to do with muggles! It think that'll have to be more to that though, otherwise it's a bit of anti-climax.
We have a foreshadowing of this tactic when Harry attacks Sirius in the Shreiking Shack. But somehow I just don't think Harry will die. And I hope Dumbledore won't either.

I like the idea that a person who goes through the veil is able to see time in a different way and therefore knows the future. It would explain how prophecies are possible. And JK had said that she had a reason to kill Sirius. Maybe this is it. Sirius somehow guides Harry.

I don't agree that Dumbledore knows everything and he is manipulating things. He knows that at any time a person has a choice of what to do, their free-will, except when under the imperious curse of course. Because a person always has a choice, you can never predict the future. That is why prophecies are purposely vague. So Dumbledore could never be certain enough of what will happen to manipulate things. I feel that since JK has made "choice" such an important theme of this series, nothing can be predicted.

First, I want to say something.
Brandon Ford, I love you. :)
You come up with some wacky theories and I love them. Keep 'em coming.
Now, I think that this, as well as the rest of his articles, was simply brilliant. It raises several points and all that good jazz.
I agree with Dumbledore having to play with people, whether he likes it or not, and perhaps he made a mistake. Haven't you ever been surprised when you were playing when, before you know it, your Queen-Side rook is gone? Sirius may have been an unfortunate accident and he didn't realize the error he made until it was too late.
I do reckon he did infact ALLOW Delores to teach, surely he could have found someone else. Wouldn't it rock if Arthur was the DADA teacher... minus the curse.
I think I've entered babblehood...
~iicon

Brandon, I love your editorials because even when I do not agree, they still make me think. I too eagerly await the effect of Ron's encounter with the brain. I also feel that Sirius has shown Harry "the way". However, the final showdown will happen at the (one and only) death curtain in the Dept. of Mysteries. That curtain is a portal, but not the main entrance to the beyond. The main entrance takes no physical form and can happen anywhere that one dies. Thanks again for a nice article.

There are a few areas that I have concerns with regarding this editorial. I've always thought that Dumbledore won't give Snape the DADA position because Dumbledore wants Harry to actually like DADA, considering it's criticial that Harry becomes skilled in this area. If Snape were to teach DADA, Harry would loathe the class. We know that for a fact; take Potions, for example. It's not that Harry can't learn Potions, (he felt he didn't do too badly on his Potions O.W.L.) it's just that Harry hates the class due to Snape. Dumbledore had to know that Snape would despise Harry long before Harry even got to Hogwarts, so I would find it highly unlikely that Dumbledore would put Snape in the position to turn Harry off of DADA-the subject he so desperately needs to learn. Secondly, I don't agree that Snape is a horrible teacher; on the contrary, I think that Snape is a very good teacher. He is referred to as the Potions Master, after all. (Side Note: None of the other Professors are referred to as a "Master" of their subject. For instance, Flitwick isn't "The Charms Master," he's just Professor Flitwick.) I think that speaks volumes for his ability. Also, I'm not so sure about there being more than one veil. There is absolutely NO evidence pointing to this, and to tell you the truth, I'm not sure what there having numerous veils would do for the story. I think it would be a letdown if Jo staged the final battle at Gringott's (I love Gringott's and all, but for the final showdown?) Talk about an anti-climax. Would Voldemort walk into Gringott's and say, "Hey, I'd like to make a widthdrawl" and then kills all the goblins? Anyway, because the veil is in the Department of Mysteries, that leads me to believe me that there is only one. There's more to the veil than just "Death." That's why it's under study at the Ministry. If it only meant death to whoever fell thru it, then it's plausible a veil would be placed at Azkaban (where death happens often), but we can't forget the fact that it's under speculation, meaning that nobody is quite sure exactly what it does. I also don't see why Dumbledore would purposely want Umbridge as the DADA teacher. I don't think he did anything to fight her coming into Hogwarts, however, I'm not sure he would embrace the idea with open arms. Brandon seems to think that this was one of Dumbledore's wise plans to get the wheels in motion. He thinks that Umbridge led to the DA, which led to Neville, Ginny, and Luna taking part in the battle at the Department of Mysteries, which led to Sirius' death. This is actually all true, but I don't think that's the way Dumbledore wanted it to go down. Unless Dumbledore is a Seer, he would have no way of knowing Umbridge would ban Quidditch, or that Harry would start a DADA Class, helping his leadership abilities. Dumbledore is very wise, but he's certainly not all-knowing. Oh well, the good news is that we don't have that much longer to wait until all of these questions get answered!

What a great idea! Pushing someone through the veil might really be the most effective way of killing someone regardless of any "steps" that person has taken to protect himself from death. (Could a ghost pass through the veil? Would she/he then be properly dead?). But I'm not sure if this is what will happen in the final battle.

Snape, Umbridge and DADA:
I don't think that Snape being a bad teacher made DD accept Umbridge. He should have known that Fudge would use her as a means to infiltrate Hogwarts and to get rid of him. Umbridge's teaching methods were worse than Snape's in all aspects. With Snape as DADA teacher all students and not just the DA members would have learned something useful in that year. The reason for not giving Snape the DADA job has been there since the beginning of his teaching career where if might not have been obvious that he is a bad teacher.

DD manipulating everything:
The DA, the brain attack, and Sirius' fall through the veil were not direct results of DD's decisions but purely random and unpredictable so DD has to be a great seer or Trelawny's incompetence is just a fake.

Sirius showing Harry the way:
JKR said that there is a reason why Sirius had to die, not there is a reason why someone had to fall through the veil. If any other person close to Harry or even a DE would have fallen through the veil Harry could remember it in the final confrontation.

Why didn't Voldemort die?
"Because he has done something to prevent his essence from passing though the veil" is a valid answer to JKR's question if the veil is only for those who have been AKed. If it is a general gate to the afterlife then anything you do to avoid your death is a means of preventing your life essence from passing through the veil.

Great editorial!!!
I don't understand why, though, people think the viel is natural. It wasn't just *pop* and it was there! It was made, probobly by ancient wizards, and moved from the site for ministry workers (lily Potter??) to study. Its not where wizards go when they die, its where they are studied.

my other 2 cents:
Maybe (hopefully) Harry will gain some knowlaedge and common sense, then he'll remember how *sob :upset: * Sirius died and then stun (or what ever Bella did) and push Voldy through with H/R/L/G and other assorted mambers of ther DA cheering him on. The prophecy said that Harry had to kill Voldy alone, Harry (and us) assume that he must be their alone. I think his friends will (want) to come, Hermione and Ginny can give him advice,and the others can be their for Moral support, ya never know....

Great editorial! It really blew me away! :tu: :p
I agree with you on a lot of points. I think Dumbledore must have a lot of ways (portraits, ghosts, and who knows what else) to know what's going on. I like the veil idea, I don't think it will be the ONLY thing that happens, because it has to be a SPECTACULAR ending, but it certainly could be a part of it!

When I posted my ideas on Dumbledore and the final battle, I forgot about Snape and the DADA position. It's a little out there, but what if Snape doesn't really want the position? Dumbledore knew that Voldemort would come back. Snape would probably be needed in his double-agent role. Snape would need to put up the appearance of trying to get into a position where he could vastly inhibit the ability of graduates to fight Voldemort- the DADA position. However, if he was in that position, in the occasion of Voldemort's return, Snape would be expected to fulfill his duty and start affecting the quality of DADA education. Snape couldn't refuse, or his loyalty to Voldemort would be questioned. Dumbledore obviously can't allow this to happen. The easiest solution is for Snape to "apply" for the position every year and make a big fuss when he's denied. Snape appears to be trying to influence affairs for Voldemort, but can't be called on to follow through on his claims.

Well done, Brandon...a very interesting read yet again. :clap: Just a couple of things that I was not convinced about:

1) Did Snape apply for the DADA teachers position for the trios fifth year? I'm not sure that it was ever mentioned that he had done (although I could be wrong as I don't have my book here to refer to).

2) Like some of the others, I disagree that Snape is a terrible teacher. He is certainly well respected for his potion making ability - we see a number of occasions when he makes potions for others in the school, indicating that he is particularly skilled in this area. We are also only privy to a fraction of the classes - it is too difficult to make a firm judgement on Snape's teaching abilities when we only have such a small amount of information.

3) I'm not sure of your point that Harry is not "up" to facing Voldemort - he has actually faced him four times already and come off better than Voldie each time. Harry is also growing in strength and wisdom, which augurs well for him. Remember Frodo and Sam in LoTR - they were much, much weaker than the force they were against, however in the end they were victorious. It is not just who is capable of the most evil spells that will win in the end - there are a whole range of other attributes that are likely to be just as important (eg knowledge, support, wisdom, perseverance, compassion, courage, conviction, loyalty, luck etc).

4) The whole idea that people need to fall through the veil or in some other way travel through it in order to die does not sit well with me. My feeling is that the veil is one portal to the beyond life realm, but not necessarily the only one. The veil is most likely the manner in which the Dept of Mysteries can have some link to the beyond life realm, but not the only means of death.

:gryff:

Mystical Blue-I think that you are exactly right regarding Snape and the DADA position. I always thought that Dumbledore didn't give the job to Snape because Dumbledore wanted Harry to actually like DADA, since he's going to need it so much. That answer is a little uncertain. I think yours makes much more sense! It does seem as if Dumbledore and Snape want the students to know that Snape's constantly being rejected. It's weird that the students even know that. If Snape "applies" every year and Dumbledore says no, then that information should just be between the two of them-not the whole school. It seems as though they want that to be public knowledge.

Well I've thought that was probably the only way that Harry could kill Voldemort seeing as Voldemort is so much more knowledgeable about magic , and dark magic at that ,that I felt all along that Harry could only win by the use of brute force or muggle fighting skills not by magic alone . So pushing Voldemort through the veil makes sense to me. :tu: :clap: :agree:

That's certainly possible, but I think it will be more likely that Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort because of some unknown ability we haven't seen yet. We already had the surprise in the first book that allowed Harry to fend off Quirrell/Voldemort.

I'm guessing that Harry has a very stong "good" quality to fight Voldermort's "evil" quality.

Very thought provoking article. My theory on Snape never getting the position of DADA Professor is that being a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and a former DE, that Snape is in too precarious a position to manage being the DADA Professor. Dumbledore needs Snape to be able to carry out his duties for the Order, and I think that would preclude his being the DADA Professor, at this time. Since Harry arrived at Hogwarts, the DADA Professor has never lasted more than one year, and I think that Dumbledore wants to keep Snape around, and have him be in a position to help.
All of the replies to this editorial have been excellent!

I'm in pure awe. There are very few theories out there about this topic of which are fairy convincing, and in my book, this is one of them. Chears. :)

really interesting theory! I liked the part about VM going through the veil - brilliant. However, in my optimistic self, I see Harry sending him through the veil but staying alive on the other side! :p I just want to see Harry live happily every after!!!

I get what you're saying though about Sirius having to go through the veil. I think people are mistaken when they take it as DD setting it up - let's remember that JKR is the author and she stated that Sirius "had to die" - she even cried after she wrote the chapter (from her FAQ on her website). I don't think she intended for us to believe that DD allowed Sirius to die to show Harry how the veil works - DD is upset about Sirius' death not just b/c of Sirius but b/c of what he meant to Harry. Rather though JKR put Sirius through the veil to show Harry the way to vanquish VM, that fits.

Snape is a nasty man and his teaching skills are not the friendliest, but I agree with others who say he is good at potions and therefore can impart skills to his students; however, I also think that having him at Hogwarts may also provide him a level of protection. I think you're on to something, B.

Nice thoughts about more than 1 veil too - don't see one at Gringotts though - didn't Griphook say they only check the vault that the SS was in once every 10 years or so to see if anyone tried to get in (and died)? I'm not sure I can imagine one at Hogwarts either, but who knows... there are certainly references to the castle having many secrets (i.e. room of requirement anyone?) and DD himself said in GoF to Karkaroff that he didn't think he knew Hogwarts inside and out.

Good stuff and great responses everyone! :)

Excellent Editorial. One of the best I've read and I'm a big Maline fan. I found your veil theory very intriguing. I too felt the Veil must play a role in the end but hadn't thought of it quite as you did and I loved your idea. I've also, played a little with the idea of some sort of power transference with DD/Harry if (when) the time comes for DD to go so Harry can live to maybe boost his abilities as I can't see him being ready by book 7.

I think the veil definitely IS a portal to the great beyond, to death. "Passing through the veil" is a rather common metaphor for passing away. I think that Harry and Luna's unique ability to hear the dead people beyond the veil is closely tied to their ability to see the Thestrals.

I DO NOT, however think the veil is one of many portals through which the "life essence" of every deceased wizard, or of every victim of Avada Kedavra, must pass. I think that when wizards die, they die. They go on to whatever afterlife exists. When victims of the Avada Kedavra curse are hit with the curse, they die. Remember that the "vast invisible something" flies through the air BEFORE the death of the victim; in my understanding, it is the "vast invisible something" that rushes at the victim to bring death.

In any event, one thing everyone seems to be forgetting in their speculations about the mysterious DoM Veil is the ROOM the veil is found in!

Order of the Phoenix says (on page 773 of the American hardback) "This room was larger than the last, dimly lit and rectangular, and the center of it was sunken, forming a great stone pit some twenty feet below them. They were standing in the topmost tier of what seemed to be stone benches running all around the room and descending in steep stone steps LIKE AN AMPHITHEATER OR THE COURTROOM IN WHICH HARRY HAD BEEN TRIED BY THE WIZENGAMOT. Instead of a chair, however, there was a raised stone dais...." [emphasis added] with the fluttering tattered black "curtain or veil."

This description of the room suggests that the veil may have once been a mode of execution for wizards, like a magical version of the electric chair. Why else is this tool of death housed in an amphitheater-like, courtroom-like room? What need is there for all the rows of benches? It's in the Department of Mysteries, so it seems that it must not have been widely used, or widely known (at least not in recent years.) Presumably, it is not currenty in use for THAT purpose (not OFFICIALLY anyway....who knows what old stinky Mr. Lime Green Bowler has the Ministry up to...). But the adults present at Sirius's death (and I DO think he's dead) seemed to know the purpose of the "veil." Bellatrix "screamed triumphantly" after Sirius disappeared behind it, and Lupin immediatley held Harry back, telling him "There's nothing you can do.....he's gone...."

I think it's a singular object, this veil; other countries' ministries might have experimented with something similar, but I don't think there are little portals-to-the-afterlife positioned all over. That's just not necessary. Certainly it is a man-made object (apparently a very, very old one.) I don't think that the "life essence" of all wizards would be required to travel through a man-made portal to reach an afterlife. And would that mean a seperate afterlife for wizards? What a sad-thought for muggle-wizard marriages and blended magical-non-magical families to be separated in death. Somehow I don't think so....

A great development on an excellent theme, almostpurple!

Wizzard execution chamber! I like it!

It certainly is worth considering, especially in light of the older wizzards being all sure that Sirius was dead. But what about Nearly Headless Nick? He had the misfortune to be beheaded (almost) like a muggle. I suppose it was muggles that got him, then?

I Don't think this theory is correct. If Voldemort did have to go into the veil then Harry wouldn't be the only one who could kill Voldemort. Dumbledore could simply set a trap for Voldemort and push Voldemort in himself. Then bam Voldemort is gone

Here's a question:
Why doesn't Dumbledore, Harry and all the other really strong/good wizards write a letter to Voldemort, attach it to Hedwig since she seems to be able to find anybody, follow her to Voldemort, and gang up on him?

A few quick comments.

It's already been stated that Fawkes can teleport with fire n stuff, so I won't go off on that.

Pettirgrew's hand is just as alive as Harry's blood when it goes in to the potion.

Snape-DADA-Umbridge. It isn't that DD knows the future and what is needed for Harry, it is JKR that does. I seriously doubt that DD knew what Umbridge's presence would lead to, (i.e. sirius's death, Harry going to DoM...). I think he let Umbridge in rather than Snape because it is vital that snape NOT teach DADA. He is needed for voldemort's return. If Voldy came back to find snape teaching DADA at DD's school, he probably wouldn't be trusted with usesful spy stuff.
As for Umbridge. He knew how bad she was going to be, but played along. She was sent because of her loyalty to Fudge, not because she would be good at infiltrating and taking over Hogwarts. Her actions in the OotP are probably going to be one of the main reasons Fudge gets the boot. DD could probably forsee that, and so let it happen.

As for Harry's Raw Nerve... His nerve will probably be what he relies on to destoy voldy, not his particular skill. Although he will probably get very skillful before the very end. JKR might even try to trick us into thinking that harry can do it with his skill. But then Voldy will lay the smack down on him and we will think it's all over. Then raw nerve takes over and voldy (and possibly harry) are vanquished.

As to the veil... Remember in the end of OotP when Harry goes and finds nearly headless and nick tells him that there is a room in the Dept. of Mysteries where it is studied. That is what the veil room is for I believe. I could be for executions, but I think it is a place to study death. A place to interact with those beyond the veil. And I don't think that every "soul" must pass through it when it dies.

Well now, we have some interesting ideas floating around about Snape. (That's Professor Snape, please)

Dumbledore needs Snape in the role of Potions Master. I agree with you, Brandon. There's definitely a reason that Snape wasn't given the DADA position. Could Dumbledore know that Snape must keep his skills honed? I do think that Snape being a Potions 'Master' is significant. Is this a super high designation in the Wizarding world? A big step beyond high O.W.L.s? A PhD equivalent? (just 'Master' instead of 'Doctor'?) Could Potions, something Harry has always distained and dismissed (despite his use of the Polyjuice Potion) be a key to his gaining the power necessary for his final fight with Voldemort?

Snape was an outcast. He was a brilliant potions student, but disliked and mocked. Can we find a better combination to create an evil genius?

Yet, he also experienced suffering in his early life. He knows not only bitterness, but pain from the squashing of a child's simple love. He had love and had it ripped away.... (sound familiar?) This may be the reason that he was able to be brought back to the side of good.

I think Snape was recruited by Voldemort. When Voldemort had gained some amount of power, I think he may have looked around to find the powerful and recruitable. Remember the outcast thing? Wouldn't it be easy to bring Snape over to the 'dark side'? People who liked and respected him -- or gave the impression that they did. Compliments flying -- "Wow Severus, you are the best and most capable at potions! Oooh, how did you ever manage that!" Lesser men than our dear Snape have been wooed this way.

I believe that Snape was instrumental in creating the protection that Voldemort holds against mortality. Once Snape was firmly in the fold, Voldemort would certainly have used the capabilities that Snape brought to create some of his protections from mortality. Does Snape want out of the Potions teaching position because it brings up the evil he caused by protecting Voldemort?

In Today show interview with Arthur Levine (8 March 2005), he seems ever so lightly taken aback when Al Roker asked whether Snape could be the HBP. Not a real clue, but an impression I had -- maybe he is the HBP? As stated before, the title never is really part of Harry's primary journey, it's a place that he happens to be or a person or thing that adds to the story, but not the true focus of our hero's journey.

Conclusion, Snape will be absolutely pivotal in the HBP. Harry and Snape will have to learn to work together so that Harry will understand the nature of Voldemort's powers. We saw them try working together and fail in OOtP. They will need to work closely and well. The power that Snape holds is great. I'm sure we haven't seen the extent of it. Snape also has the one real insight to the true level of Voldemort's powers and personality. He's been there, he was a Death Eater. Between Snape and Pettigrew, Harry has a lot to learn about Voldemort. But Snape will be the first of the two to teach Harry what he needs to ultimately defeat Voldemort.

Well now, we have some interesting ideas floating around about Snape. (That's Professor Snape, please)

Dumbledore needs Snape in the role of Potions Master. I agree with you, Brandon. There's definitely a reason that Snape wasn't given the DADA position. Could Dumbledore know that Snape must keep his skills honed? I do think that Snape being a Potions 'Master' is significant. Is this a super high designation in the Wizarding world? A big step beyond high O.W.L.s? A PhD equivalent? (just 'Master' instead of 'Doctor'?) Could Potions, something Harry has always distained and dismissed (despite his use of the Polyjuice Potion) be a key to his gaining the power necessary for his final fight with Voldemort?

Snape was an outcast. He was a brilliant potions student, but disliked and mocked. Can we find a better combination to create an evil genius?

Yet, he also experienced suffering in his early life. He knows not only bitterness, but pain from the squashing of a child's simple love. He had love and had it ripped away.... (sound familiar?) This may be the reason that he was able to be brought back to the side of good.

I think Snape was recruited by Voldemort. When Voldemort had gained some amount of power, I think he may have looked around to find the powerful and recruitable. Remember the outcast thing? Wouldn't it be easy to bring Snape over to the 'dark side'? People who liked and respected him -- or gave the impression that they did. Compliments flying -- "Wow Severus, you are the best and most capable at potions! Oooh, how did you ever manage that!" Lesser men than our dear Snape have been wooed this way.

I believe that Snape was instrumental in creating the protection that Voldemort holds against mortality. Once Snape was firmly in the fold, Voldemort would certainly have used the capabilities that Snape brought to create some of his protections from mortality. Does Snape want out of the Potions teaching position because it brings up the evil he caused by protecting Voldemort?

In Today show interview with Arthur Levine (8 March 2005), he seems ever so lightly taken aback when Al Roker asked whether Snape could be the HBP. Not a real clue, but an impression I had -- maybe he is the HBP? As stated before, the title never is really part of Harry's primary journey, it's a place that he happens to be or a person or thing that adds to the story, but not the true focus of our hero's journey.

Conclusion, Snape will be absolutely pivotal in the HBP. Harry and Snape will have to learn to work together so that Harry will understand the nature of Voldemort's powers. We saw them try working together and fail in OOtP. They will need to work closely and well. The power that Snape holds is great. I'm sure we haven't seen the extent of it. Snape also has the one real insight to the true level of Voldemort's powers and personality. He's been there, he was a Death Eater. Between Snape and Pettigrew, Harry has a lot to learn about Voldemort. But Snape will be the first of the two to teach Harry what he needs to ultimately defeat Voldemort.



I think the use of the term "Potions Master" is not as significant. I think it is being used to describe the position of Snape as the person who teaches potions. Surely all the other instructors have the ability to create potions since they all had to learn it in school at some point. Snape has just been charged with the task of being responsible for making postions when necessary. I think McGonagall could easily be called the Transfiguration Master, or Prof. Sprout the Herbology Master.

I think what is more significant is that Dumbledore has NOT allowed Snape to be the DADA instructor.

We have seen that Dumbledore was thinking of getting rid of Divination but kept it just to give Trelawney*a job so he could keep her close to him. He recognized the significance she played regarding Harry and Voldemort. If Snape did indeed help Voldemort on the path of making himself immortal, then that would be a very good reason for Dumbledore keeping Snape in the position where his skills are really needed for the school. This would also keep Snape AWAY from teaching students to be interested in Dark Magic, rather than be defending themselves against it.

One thing I think was interesting is that all the skills that Umbridge told Harry he needed to possess in order to be an Auror, Snape definitely has. So why didn't Snape become one? Direction.

Do you think it's another lesson on the choices we make that shape who we are, not our skills. Snape, under the direction of Dumbledore, has proven to be a very valuable and trusted member of the Order of the Phoenix. With the right direction, students can be guided to the good side of things rather than the Dark side.

I know that this may be a very simplistic view, but maybe Dumbledore doesn't want Snape to be the DADA teacher because Snape is such a good potions master. Lupin said that he was grateful to Snape for mixing up the potion he needed because not many wizards could brew such a complex potion. Snape is very good at his job.

I know that this may be a very simplistic view, but maybe Dumbledore doesn't want Snape to be the DADA teacher because Snape is such a good potions master. Lupin said that he was grateful to Snape for mixing up the potion he needed because not many wizards could brew such a complex potion. Snape is very good at his job.

I always like to examine the easiest possible reason behind something, that's a great approach. However, Dumbledore rarely asks anybody to do something they don't want to unelss he sees a very good reason for it. If all he wanted was to keep Snape nearby, then being the DADA teacher would be good enough. There must be some reason he keeps disappointing Snape every year by not allowing him to teach the class.

I know that this may be a very simplistic view, but maybe Dumbledore doesn't want Snape to be the DADA teacher because Snape is such a good potions master. Lupin said that he was grateful to Snape for mixing up the potion he needed because not many wizards could brew such a complex potion. Snape is very good at his job.Ithink that you have hit on a very good point . I would just like to add that there is a old saying, about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer ,this could be why Dumbledore keeps Snape where he is IE away from the DADA position, because DADA takes thoughts and ideas and intentions ,while potions just takes the ability to follow instructions I hope this makes sense . :huh:

Great article! I love your column, it has the best thought-provoking essays :).

AurorChick - I think you're quite right about Snape!
Though I don't think Snape doesn't not like to be Potions Master - he simply prefers DADA. Everyone has more than one thing they like.

Okay, this veil is driving me nuts. I have a few ideas, but also questions about it I can’t find an answer to.
I think I have an idea of what it is, but there is also one thing I have always wondered about and that is how got the veil inside the Department of Mysteries?. I like your idea, almostpurple, of the room once being some kind of execution room.
But I just don't get it. The veil is a portal to death, or at least to another world (will get back on that). The archway is very ancient, and I think the veil is so too of course. I don't think anyone knows who or what made it, or how it was made. Maybe it was just always there. But then again; how did it get into the DoM? It’s a mystery if it’s in that Department, meaning that its purposes or how it works aren’t figured out yet. All people seem to know is that it kills someone who falls (or just steps?) behind it. Now I suppose there are two possibilities; either the veil was moved into the DoM, or the DoM (and therefore the entire MoM) was built around it. I know it may seem far-fetched, but I believe this last possibility more than the first. Why?
One, because the veil is a mystery. Not much is known about it. I think the only thing people really know about it is that it causes death. It seems to me Dumbledore might’ve explained a bit more to Harry about where Sirius went to if he knew.
Two – and this is something I just can’t figure out – how would wizards be able to move it? If they’d find some way to move it, they’d see what’s behind it, they’d see the place where the voices come from. Maybe it was put inside the Ministry for safety, so that no one would accidentally fall through it. They couldn’t destroy it, so they had to put it somewhere no one ever comes – or isn’t supposed to come, anyway. But it makes more sense to me to put it behind a locked door that never opens, just like they did with “love” (or whatever the thing Dumbledore talked about was). I don’t think that’s why. I believe it’s in the DoM simply because it’s a mystery. But I have already said that.
Back to the point; how would wizards be able to move it? With some transporting spell, perhaps? Would the voices move along with it? What about the archway? What would they see on the place where the veil first was when it’s gone? Just a hole in the ground? I don’t think so. Now, I have no real answer to any of these questions, I just can’t figure it out. Maybe I’m looking too much into it, and there is a perfectly normal and simple explanation to this, but it has just always bothered me. It just seems impossible to me to move it.
Therefore, one would think that the veil already was there and that the MoM was built around it. Very unlikely, I admit, and I don’t know how the veil could be in a busy city such as London. I’d think people wouldn’t like to go live near to a thing that causes death so easy.
I know Level Nine is well under the ground, so it’s kind of unlikely the veil was there always. Eveyone knows – I assume – that the surface of the earth was much lower once; therefore how deeper you dig, the older the things you find are. But I don’t know if it was ever as low as the DoM, and if that was the time people started building the MoM.
So basically, none of my possibilities are very likely. I just can’t think of another one.

And there’s another question I don’t know the answer to; What would happen if someone tried to pull it aside? I mean, just putting a few of your fingers on the back of the veil wouldn’t make you dead, I suppose. Or would you just be kind of dragged behind it as soon as you tried? Would it move if you tried to pull it aside? If so, you should be able to see what’s behind it. You might see the (source of the) voices. I don’t really think this is possible, as I don’t think you can see what’s in afterlife until you are there and can’t return.
I hope you guys get what I mean, as this is something I really can’t figure out and I might not be so well in explaining it to all of you :).
I never thought about it being an old execution-thing, that’s quite a good theory, though it still leaves me with the question why it’s in the Department of Mysteries now. Perhaps for safe-keeping... But if it was made by wizards of the Ministry, even ages ago, it would seem to me that it wouldn’t be so hard to destroy it either, if it wasn’t needed anymore. Now it’s just a dangerous thing, and if you know wat it’s all about, and if really its only purpose is to cause death, why not destroy it? Death sentence isn’t something that’s legal anymore in the Wizarding world, I think.

There is something to be said about B.’s theory that the veil is some kind of portal everyone has to go through when they die – just like the river Styx in Greek mythology for example. Though I don’t really believe this theory, as I don’t really believe there are other veils. It just seems...unlikely to me, people would’ve heard about it if there was more than one. In Ancient Greece, everyone knew about the Styx too. Clearly, no Hogwarts-student, or at least no DA-member knew about it. Hermione, with all her reading...she must’ve known if there were more veils that were nothing more but a simple portal to afterlife.

However, I do have some idea of what the veil actually is. When doing a paper for school about mythology, I came across this bit of Celtic mythology;

The Celts believed in transcendental worlds. I believe there were either 7 or 9. Some of them were a hell, other a paradise, and they were habited by gods, giants, ghosts, fairies, etc. Between these worlds and the ‘real’ world hung a veil, which could sometimes be crossed by seeers and bards and very brave/great warriors and heroes. You could access these worlds through water too. On October the 31st, all portals through these worlds would open and releasing all these creatures on earth”.

Do we know any of these seeers, bards, or warriors? Dumbledore? Trelawney? Harry? Voldemort? I think it’s very likely JK got her veil from this.

Well, that’s all I have to say...

Interesting theory about why Snape wasn't DADA. Could be true.

I think the idea of forcing V through the veil is a nifty one. However, I don't understand why people say Harry would never use Avada Kedavra. If pushing V through the veil kills him, then it's no different from AK. If Harry pushes him through, he obviously has the will to kill him. And Harry's going to have to have the will to kill him (unless Gollum shows up and knocs V into the volcanic fire). He didn't against Bellatrix, but he'd never tried an AK before and, of course, against Voldemort the stakes will be higher. We keep hearing that Harry's greatest strength is love. If he refuses to kill Voldemort (who is a killer), thereby guaranteeing major disaster for everyone he loves, then he doesn't really love them.

To use an unforgiveable you have to mean and enjoy it as Bellatirx said in OOTP, so to use AK you have to be a cold blooded murderer. If Harry used AK to vanquish LV then the main plot of the HP series would be turning an innocent child into a cold blooded murderer.

While Harry in his seventh year may be a powerful wizard and may be a match for a seventeen year old DD or TR he will never be a match to LV on the height of his power. And I will be very disappointed if the seven books and all the hints, riddles and theories boil down to the question who pulls his wand and yells AK faster.

If it is true that the mysterious power is love and if it is true that JKR is a Christian then love might not mean just love for his friends and family but also love for his enemies.

The Celts believed in transcendental worlds. I believe there were either 7 or 9. Some of them were a hell, other a paradise, and they were habited by gods, giants, ghosts, fairies, etc. Between these worlds and the ‘real’ world hung a veil, which could sometimes be crossed by seeers and bards and very brave/great warriors and heroes. You could access these worlds through water too. On October the 31st, all portals through these worlds would open and releasing all these creatures on earth”.
In the thread discussing the covers, Ellen pointed out that the color green is the Celtic color of death. I responded that on JKR's website under wands, she revealed that she used the Celtic calendar to determine the type of wood used in the Trio's wands (like April is diamond, February is amethyst, etc.). That made two Celtic connections, and yours makes a third.

Oh, brilliance, brilliance, brilliance. I'm so glad someone finally saw this.

To hearken back to one of my more controversial installments, Harry is nowhere near ready to go toe-to-toe with Voldemort in a duel. In fact, even if he learns a lot in the next two years, it's still not gonna be enough to duel Voldemort and come out on top. Harry's dad in his prime couldn't do it. Dumbledore couldn't do it. I conceded a while ago that given a bit more training he could do it. But now, I still don't think so. I think somehow the playing field has to be leveled.

This is a wonderful point. Yes, Harry has fought him before. But would you really call that fought? Harry's got a lot of luck, is all I can say. Lucky that somehow Quirrel was slow enough reaching for his wand that Harry had time to touch him. Lucky that Tom Riddle was so busy epiloguing that Fawkes could come. Lucky that he and Voldy performed their spells at the exact same millisecond in the graveyard. You remember the spell he did? Expelliarmus. To disarm. He didn't want to kill. He wasn't really even thinking of living. He knew he was going to die. He tried the best he had, and it wasn't good enough. And remember all those spells he taught the DA? What happened to those when Voldy apparated in the Ministry? Where was our hero then? Hiding behind a fountain while his headmaster took care of the matter.

I know, I know I'm being unfair to Harry. But the point being--he is not ready. He will never be ready. Chance is the only way Harry has of defeating him. At all.

Then I got to thinking: the veil at the ministry can't be the only one in the world. You mean to tell me that if a witch or wizard in Mexico dies, their essence has to travel all the way to England to pass through the veil into the beyond? Why is it difficult to assume that the Mexican Ministry of Magic has their own veil that they study? Is it also therefore difficult to infer that since Hogwarts upon its creation was the frickin' epicenter of all magical research in Britain, that a veil could not be hidden deep below Hogwarts? Or perhaps there is one in Azkaban (another place where a veil would be pertinent since obviously prisoners have to die at some point). Or perhaps there is one guarded in Gringotts? I name these three places because I see the Final Confrontation between the forces of good and the forces of evil happening at one of these three places.

This hit a little resounding bell in my head. A lightbulb went off. It makes perfect sense, and yet it doesn't. Why would there be so many veils? Do the essences of life choose which one, or just go to the one that's closest? Do the essences of Muggles go to the beyond, too? And how in the world did the veils get there? The absolute surity is that they weren't created. If wizards were able to create the passage for life essences in certain places, then they might as well get rid of death altogether. The thing is, I'm not so sure anymore that the veil is really a passage, rather than a representation of the transition, and a way for wizards to study it. I'm seriously doubting that if a wizard dies in the Leaky Cauldron, for instance, that their essence actually has to travel with the wind across town to enter the veil in the DoM. It just doesn't make sense.

And Dumbledore?

Well, as Brandon pointed out, he's on top of the ball. Totally. Much more than Voldy, as we all know, though Voldy's no idiot, either. But Dumbledore has been leading Harry up to this for ages, since giving him the Invisibility Cloak and telling him not to enter the third floor corridor on his first day at Hogwarts, as pointed out by Harry himself in SS/PS. You couldn't give him more of a dare, could you? But, Dumbledore has to stop leading. He has to let go. He has to die. And the scary thing is, I have a feeling he's known that since the beginning.

This hit a little resounding bell in my head. A lightbulb went off. It makes perfect sense, and yet it doesn't. Why would there be so many veils? Do the essences of life choose which one, or just go to the one that's closest? Do the essences of Muggles go to the beyond, too? And how in the world did the veils get there? The absolute surity is that they weren't created. If wizards were able to create the passage for life essences in certain places, then they might as well get rid of death altogether.

I completely agree with that :)

This hit a little resounding bell in my head. A lightbulb went off. It makes perfect sense, and yet it doesn't. Why would there be so many veils? Do the essences of life choose which one, or just go to the one that's closest? Do the essences of Muggles go to the beyond, too? And how in the world did the veils get there? The absolute surity is that they weren't created. If wizards were able to create the passage for life essences in certain places, then they might as well get rid of death altogether. The thing is, I'm not so sure anymore that the veil is really a passage, rather than a representation of the transition, and a way for wizards to study it. I'm seriously doubting that if a wizard dies in the Leaky Cauldron, for instance, that their essence actually has to travel with the wind across town to enter the veil in the DoM. It just doesn't make sense.
The veil in the DOM is old and ragged, the archway holding it up is old and crumbling, the stone seats surround it like an amphitheatre. Could the MOM have been built around this ancient site, much as churches have been built layer upon layer over other more ancient wizarding sites?

The theory has been put forth that this may have been an execution site in former times. At first I agreed, but suppose it serves the same purpose as the stone rings throughout Great Britain and parts of Europe? True, except for astronomically, no one has really figured out what the rings are for or who built them. In Outlander by Diana Gabaldon, she uses them for a time portal. I'm not really suggesting that is the case here, but I am suggesting that there can be more than one veil and archway in the world.

Could the MOM have been built around this ancient site?


I think it is.

you bring up a good point about dd knowing hes had to die the entire time, that is scary, but i do think that harry will be rdy for vv by the end.
Remimber vv and dd did not come into hogwarts te all powerfull wizards they are now. I think harry will be ready when the time come, because u got to remember, harry has powers that lv knows not. And i think that it is not luck that harry has came out on top of lv those times i think its the power he has. The problem is harry does not know how to control this power yet, so he ant just call upon it at anytime. i think the power only strenghtens harry in dire need, like when his life is threatend by lv.
As for Snape, i think he is a marvelous teacher. Hes very strick, but he knows what he is doing. And i think the reason that dd keeps Snape as a potions teacher is b/c (now this is a if/and only if type conclusion that snape did help vv become imortal or w/e by a potion) lv knows snape can create potions, so why would dd move Snape from potions, snape has a secret job for the order which knowone at this time knows about, and i think being the potions teacher has alot to do with keeping snape in with LV long enough to get information. I mean you got to think about it, if you were LV , one of the most revered wizards in the world, would you not think it supicous for one of your DE to be teaching DADA instead of potions knowing that he is a potions master.

JUST something to think about.

Another thing that occurred to me, and I know it has been mentioned before, but Harry may not be able to kill Voldemort, at least not in the way most might think. In book three, he was furious at himself for not being able to take control of the moment and kill Sirius when he had the chance (when he's holding his wand on him in the Shrieking Shack). It's not in Harry's nature to kill, especially with a wand. In book two, he is shown killing the basilisk with the sword, and in book four he uses his wand against the Death Eaters and Voldemort only to disarm or get away. In book five, he does a lame attempt with Bellatrix with an Unforgiveable, but is unable to do it.

Harry will most certainly not be able to kill Voldemrot with magic, but I personalyl don't think it will have anything to do with the veil. If the veil comes up again in a book, it will have to do with Sirius...not Voldemort.

good point about the veil, i really dont see how it can end the books, but i still stand by what i said about harry being able to match voldemort :huh:

I agree with most of this editorial. I dont believe for a minute that Harry is capable of murder. Even if it is Voldemort. The veil thing...I dont know. It would make the whole Harrys blood thing pointless and obviously its not. I dont know. On one hand it could be like Gladiator and Harry would want to go to his family. It would tally with the centaurs prophecy anyway. And yes Sirius will somehow have to help Harry. Through a prophecy or maybe even the mirror. And lets not forget that Harry can control his wand even when its not in his hand. Now that Voldemort has Harry's blood and share cores, I believe that will have a pivotal factor somehow. And if unicorn blood can keep you alive, can a phoenix's give you rebirth? There is a definite connection between Fawkes and Harry. Half Blood Prince? I think thats probably Dumbledore. But not in the way you might think. I do believe that Dumbldore has Phoenix blood in him. There are way too many clues that leads to me this conclusion. Its all mixed up I tell ya.

Something made me wonder tonight. How did the Lilly know what to do when she came out of Voldemorts wand in GOF? I can see Cedric seeing his body and asking Harry to take it back. But the port key? Its a bit odd isnt it?

I think the veil definitely IS a portal to the great beyond, to death. "Passing through the veil" is a rather common metaphor for passing away. I think that Harry and Luna's unique ability to hear the dead people beyond the veil is closely tied to their ability to see the Thestrals.

I DO NOT, however think the veil is one of many portals through which the "life essence" of every deceased wizard, or of every victim of Avada Kedavra, must pass. I think that when wizards die, they die. They go on to whatever afterlife exists. When victims of the Avada Kedavra curse are hit with the curse, they die. Remember that the "vast invisible something" flies through the air BEFORE the death of the victim; in my understanding, it is the "vast invisible something" that rushes at the victim to bring death.

In any event, one thing everyone seems to be forgetting in their speculations about the mysterious DoM Veil is the ROOM the veil is found in!

Order of the Phoenix says (on page 773 of the American hardback) "This room was larger than the last, dimly lit and rectangular, and the center of it was sunken, forming a great stone pit some twenty feet below them. They were standing in the topmost tier of what seemed to be stone benches running all around the room and descending in steep stone steps LIKE AN AMPHITHEATER OR THE COURTROOM IN WHICH HARRY HAD BEEN TRIED BY THE WIZENGAMOT. Instead of a chair, however, there was a raised stone dais...." [emphasis added] with the fluttering tattered black "curtain or veil."

This description of the room suggests that the veil may have once been a mode of execution for wizards, like a magical version of the electric chair. Why else is this tool of death housed in an amphitheater-like, courtroom-like room? What need is there for all the rows of benches? It's in the Department of Mysteries, so it seems that it must not have been widely used, or widely known (at least not in recent years.) Presumably, it is not currenty in use for THAT purpose (not OFFICIALLY anyway....who knows what old stinky Mr. Lime Green Bowler has the Ministry up to...). But the adults present at Sirius's death (and I DO think he's dead) seemed to know the purpose of the "veil." Bellatrix "screamed triumphantly" after Sirius disappeared behind it, and Lupin immediatley held Harry back, telling him "There's nothing you can do.....he's gone...."

I think it's a singular object, this veil; other countries' ministries might have experimented with something similar, but I don't think there are little portals-to-the-afterlife positioned all over. That's just not necessary. Certainly it is a man-made object (apparently a very, very old one.) I don't think that the "life essence" of all wizards would be required to travel through a man-made portal to reach an afterlife. And would that mean a seperate afterlife for wizards? What a sad-thought for muggle-wizard marriages and blended magical-non-magical families to be separated in death. Somehow I don't think so....
Yep. My thoughts exactly. I think the veil was introduced to show that there was an after life. Nothing more than that. The only thing that I didnt like about the books is that she make it sound like a soul can be destroyed

DUDE!!! awesome editorial man!

Im one of ur silent readers, you know, people who just read about the article and never say anythin about it. But i couldnt keep my mouth shut. It all really makes sense!

I just finished rereading GoF and OotP. Near the end Luna Lovegood talks about how her mom died, but that is okay because she can still see and talk to her. Harry asks how this is possible and Luna brings up the veil.

One thing I also noticed is that only Luna and Harry are able to hear whispers beyond the veil, nobody else heard them. They were also very enchanting to harry, but those who heard them we uneffected. I thought that was interesting because Nevile couldn't hear them, or at least it isn't mentioned if he did or not. I bring this up because none of the others could see the thresherals, (or whatever you call them.) Nevile, Luna, and Harry were the only ones. Luna and harry could hear the whispers beyond the veil, but we don't know if Nevile did or not.

I think we will see more of the veil for sure, but I agree with ID824, it will have to do with Sirius, not voldy.

On a side note, I wonder who will teach harry Occlumency next year. Harry will undoubtedly have to master that. I also see his learning of occlumency also increasing his power as a wizard. Force of mind seems key to the performing of spells. If harry can master his mind to the point he can control his emotions, he will almost certainly be able to put more power into his spells.

The veil in the DOM is old and ragged, the archway holding it up is old and crumbling, the stone seats surround it like an amphitheatre. Could the MOM have been built around this ancient site, much as churches have been built layer upon layer over other more ancient wizarding sites?

The theory has been put forth that this may have been an execution site in former times. At first I agreed, but suppose it serves the same purpose as the stone rings throughout Great Britain and parts of Europe? True, except for astronomically, no one has really figured out what the rings are for or who built them. In Outlander by Diana Gabaldon, she uses them for a time portal. I'm not really suggesting that is the case here, but I am suggesting that there can be more than one veil and archway in the world.
I think that's a good thought, but remember where the Ministry is. It's a couple hundred feet UNDERGROUND, smack in the middle of London. I still think that the veil is more of a representation than anything, because it just seems to coincidental to be an actual portal to death.

The one thing that's bugging me, though, is this quote:

"And anyway, it's not as though I'll never see Mum again, is it?"
"Er--isn't it?" said Harry uncertainly.
She shook her head in disbelief. "Oh, come on. You heard them, just behind the veil, didn't you?"
"You mean..."
"In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, that's all. You heard them."

This suggests that you can see those who have passed through the veil, and that they were just "lurking," as Luna says. Sort of the shadows that we saw with Priori Incantatem, I guess. But then... how come we didn't see them coming into the veil?

My Gosh you are brilliant. I have to say that reading your theory's makes my day. :cool:

Yeah. Sirius will be back in one form. I just reread Azkaban and im positive of it. And yes he is still dead.

Yeah. Sirius will be back in one form. I just reread Azkaban and im positive of it. And yes he is still dead.

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou! You just made my day! At last, someone who's not determined to stick their head in a barrel and ignore the facts...

From POA
"You think the dead we loved ever truly leave us? You think that we
don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble? Your
father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you
have need of him. How else could you produce that particular Patronus?
Prongs rode again last night."
It took a moment for Harry to realize what Dumblefore had said.
Last night Sirius told me all about how they became Animagi," said
Dumbledore, smiling. "An extraordinary achievement -- not least, keeping
it quiet from me. And then I remembered the most unusual form your
Patronus took, when it charged Mr. Malfoy down at your Quidditch match
against Ravenclaw. You know, Harry, in a way, you did see your father
last night.... You found him inside yourself."

You know, I've been thinking. I see more of a connection between Harry and Snape than I do Harry and James. I realized this after reading Snapes Worst Memory. Harry identified more with Snape than he did with his father there. Harry would never have acted the way his father did. Both of them also had bad childhoods. Snape was pretty much unanimously unpopular, and Harry is only sporatically unanimously unpopular (ex: SS/PS-after loosing all the points, CoS-suspected of the attacks, GoF-before the 1st task, OotP-thought to be a crazy, attention seeking wacko).
Of course there is the obvious difference that Snape was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts, while Harry is more into DADA.

As I was wondering about this, something his me. You know how a lot of people draw parallels between HP and Star Wars, and one of the most common and misguided one is the connection between Harry/Luke and Voldy/Vader, and the theory that Harry is going to redeam Vade... I mean Voldy, at the very end. JKR herself squashes these rumers. But what if the more accurate parallel is between Harry and Snape. They have been sworn enemies since day one, but there is some kind of connection between them. Snape saved Harry's life in book 1. In Book 5, after experiencing Snapes memories, I felt that at some point Harry would approach snape and appologize for what his dad did to him. But he also says near the end, "I'll never forgive snape, never." Blaming him for sirius's death for some reason. That seemed a little too extreme for me, especially since he knew that Snape did what he could to contact the Order, and also alerted them that Harry had not returned from the forest and was probably at the Dept. of Mysteries. That action probably saved Harry's life, but no, Harry won't forgive him.

Well, this is getting to be a long post, so I think I'll end it at that.
Any comments?

Wow, mark evens- that's an interesting parallel. I think it makes sense. Harry and Snape do have a connection- through Voldemort, Dumbledore, James, as well as their similar experiences. It will be interesting to see how this connection develops.

You know, I've been thinking. I see more of a connection between Harry and Snape than I do Harry and James. I realized this after reading Snapes Worst Memory. Harry identified more with Snape than he did with his father there. Harry would never have acted the way his father did. Both of them also had bad childhoods. Snape was pretty much unanimously unpopular, and Harry is only sporatically unanimously unpopular (ex: SS/PS-after loosing all the points, CoS-suspected of the attacks, GoF-before the 1st task, OotP-thought to be a crazy, attention seeking wacko).
Of course there is the obvious difference that Snape was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts, while Harry is more into DADA.

As I was wondering about this, something his me. You know how a lot of people draw parallels between HP and Star Wars, and one of the most common and misguided one is the connection between Harry/Luke and Voldy/Vader, and the theory that Harry is going to redeam Vade... I mean Voldy, at the very end. JKR herself squashes these rumers. But what if the more accurate parallel is between Harry and Snape. They have been sworn enemies since day one, but there is some kind of connection between them. Snape saved Harry's life in book 1. In Book 5, after experiencing Snapes memories, I felt that at some point Harry would approach snape and appologize for what his dad did to him. But he also says near the end, "I'll never forgive snape, never." Blaming him for sirius's death for some reason. That seemed a little too extreme for me, especially since he knew that Snape did what he could to contact the Order, and also alerted them that Harry had not returned from the forest and was probably at the Dept. of Mysteries. That action probably saved Harry's life, but no, Harry won't forgive him.

Well, this is getting to be a long post, so I think I'll end it at that.
Any comments?


Not entirely true.

bickering to listen.
"I think they've both got a point," said Sirius, looking thoughtfully at Ron and
Hermione. "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I've wondered why
Dumbledore hired him. Snape's always been fascinated by the Dark Arts, he was famous
for it at school. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was," Sirius added, and Harry and
Ron grinned at each other. "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half
the kids in seventh year, and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out
to be Death Eaters."
Sirius held up his fingers and began ticking off names.
"Rosier and Wilkes - they were both killed by Aurors the year before Voldemort
fell. The Lestranges - they're a married couple - they're in Azkaban. Avery - from what
I've heard he wormed his way out of trouble by saying he'd been acting under the
Imperius Curse - he's still at large. But as far as I know, Snape was never even accused
of being a Death Eater - not that that means much. Plenty of them were never caught.
And Snape s certainly clever and cunning enough to keep himself out of trouble."

From that part in GOF it sure seems he had friends.

I didn't mean to say he didn't have any friends. He was also close to Lucius from what we've hear earlier. But my impression from was that he was disliked by most people. This was from OotP when Harry is talking to Sirius and Lupin about his experience in the pensive. The quote goes something like this, (although I don't have my book), "Snape was just this greasykid that was up to his eyes in the dark arts that nobody liked." What I'm getting at was that most people disliked him, not that every single one did.

The similarities are still there though, which was my main point.

I didn't mean to say he didn't have any friends. He was also close to Lucius from what we've hear earlier. But my impression from was that he was disliked by most people. This was from OotP when Harry is talking to Sirius and Lupin about his experience in the pensive. The quote goes something like this, (although I don't have my book), "Snape was just this greasykid that was up to his eyes in the dark arts that nobody liked." What I'm getting at was that most people disliked him, not that every single one did.

The similarities are still there though, which was my main point.

Yeah, well, most of the other house hate the slytherins, dont they? Not that unusual.

I didn't mean to say he didn't have any friends. He was also close to Lucius from what we've hear earlier. But my impression from was that he was disliked by most people. This was from OotP when Harry is talking to Sirius and Lupin about his experience in the pensive. The quote goes something like this, (although I don't have my book), "Snape was just this greasykid that was up to his eyes in the dark arts that nobody liked." What I'm getting at was that most people disliked him, not that every single one did.

The similarities are still there though, which was my main point.
I can't help but point this out--Snape wouldn't have been real good friends with Lucius, because Lucius was in his 7th year or out of Hogwarts when Snape arrived. He probably wasn't good friends with him until they became Death Eaters.

But otherwise, you've got a fair point. Snape might have been part of "a gang of Slytherins that all turned out to be Death Eaters" but he didn't seem to be part of that gang in his 5th year. And also, gang is a loose term. We have yet to see a gang of Slytherins that stuck up for each other, rather than ran when they were losing the battle. Do you think the "gang" that Snape was in really liked him for being himself? No. They liked him because he was clever and powerful.

And as for a sort of Luke-Vader connection between Harry and Snape, I'm not so sure. What makes me really doubtful that Harry will go and apologize to Snape is a quote of Dumbledore's in OotP:

"I trust Severus Snape. But I forgot--another old man's mistake--that some wounds run too deep for healing I though Professor Snape could oversome his feelings about your father--I was wrong."

How many times has Dumbledore simply acted as a narrative character for Jo? Have we any reason to doubt what he says? I don't think there will be any apologies. The loathing between Harry and Snape is here to stay. And somehow, I'm glad of it. I would be a little creeped out, actually, if they had shaken each others hands and laughed about it. It's like the world's turned upside-down, isn't it?

What makes me really doubtful that Harry will go and apologize to Snape is a quote of Dumbledore's in OotP:

"I trust Severus Snape. But I forgot--another old man's mistake--that some wounds run too deep for healing I though Professor Snape could oversome his feelings about your father--I was wrong."

How many times has Dumbledore simply acted as a narrative character for Jo? Have we any reason to doubt what he says? I don't think there will be any apologies. The loathing between Harry and Snape is here to stay. And somehow, I'm glad of it. I would be a little creeped out, actually, if they had shaken each others hands and laughed about it. It's like the world's turned upside-down, isn't it?You think this hatred between our Hero and this key character in the Vold war is here to stay? This is exactly why I see the reconcilliation happening. I can't see our Hero having the ability to conquer this great evil in the world while still harboring the very same evil in his own heart.

Maybe appologize is the wrong word, but I have a deep hunch that some sort of reconciliation or mutual understanding will be made between the two before the end of book 7. Not a shaking of hands accompanied by back slaps and laughter. I had a more solumn understanding in mind. I think with Harry's experience of Snape's worst memory, we saw a glimpse of what is to come. Now he can understand why Snape hates him so, and as Dumbledore himself said, "With understanding can come acceptance, and with acceptance, healing."

In all the great Epics, the hero somehow does battle with himself, and come out of that experience transformed. Many times, enemies play a more vital role in this than friends would, or even could. Harry's relationship with Snape is almost certainly going to be a catalyst for his growth and transformation. Harry will HAVE to master the hatred in himself before he can defeat Voldemort. This will include his relationship with Draco as well. This does not mean him becoming friends with these people, but an understanding that they are the way they are for reasons beyond their control. Hatred will be replace by understanding, and Harry will no longer walk around with the weakness Voldemort expects those who are weak to do, with their hearts on their sleaves. It is this understanding that makes Dumbledore what he is. This is why the death eater's children will continue to go to his school, and why Durmstrag students were invited back. Dumbledore does not resent them, but understands and has empathy for them. He also has the understanding that what the world has made them is not set in stone, and they can CHOOSE to break free of the patterns the world has imposed upon them.

Also, I don't think Dumbledore is simply the narrative for JKR, and I think we have great reasons to examine what he says. How many times has JKR mislead us into thinking one thing when actually the opposite was true. Of course DD is seen as infallable, but that makes him all the more perfect of a character to mislead us. In the world of Harry Potter, I doubt very little of what Dumbledore says or believes, but I also examine his words and actions very carefully in the context that he makes them, because obviously he often means more than can be taken a face value.

thats a very good statement mark_evans. However, i dont quite agree. I think your right about HARRY AND Snape having to have a mutual agreement in the end. However i still think the hatred will never completly die away. As for Harry and Draco, it will never happen. Draco will play a big part i see in book 6&7, but as a vilian, not as an acomplace to Harry. I mean, come on, how can JKR create a plot with those two worse than him and snape, than in the end make them, not friends, but work together. I think it will kind of ruin it. because she make Draco as a charecter as someone the aduiance is supose to dispise, and i think she will finish with something bad happining to Draco.
As for Dumbuldore, he is a very knowledgable wizard, but cannot be al seeing.
And as proof of this, i will recall you to GOF, and the imposter moody. And as i am currently rereading GOF, i was thinking to myself, Dumbledore knows harry did not put his name in the goblet, but he does not know who did it. Because if u recall, DD trusts the fake Moody until the end when he tells Moody to stay with harry and not move, and only finds out about the fake moody when he drags Harry to his office.
So see, yes DD is a very strong very powerfull wizard that is mor in touch with whats going on then most, but he is not all seeing.

I don't mean to say, "This will happen." I'm not JKR, nor can I read her mind or predict the future. It seems to me though that there are certain changes Harry has to make in order to defeat Voldy. The change in attitude toward Snape and Draco is just a natural consequence of these changes. Please be patient while I explain. Sorry for the lengthy article.

I don't see him resolving his differences with Draco, I see his attitude toward Draco changing. There is a difference there. I don't see Draco's attitude changing in the least. In fact, I see Draco hating him more vehemantly than ever.

In the next two books, I see him being trained for the final confrontation. Some people think that this involves simply physical (spell skill) training. It has already been discussed that even if Harry develops his spell skills to an amazing level, the best he could do is reach the point where Tom Riddle was at 17, which isn't nearly enough to defeat Voldemort after 50 more years of training. What is would/will take is for him to develop his mental skill to the similar level to Voldy and Dumbledore. Most people don't realize that mental skill is a skill in and of itself, seperate from physical (spell) skill.

I said before, I cannot see Harry defeating the evil that is Voldemort while still harboring the same evil in himself. If he transforms the hatred in himself, his attitudes toward Snape and Draco would naturally change. That's it in a nutshell, so if you understand that, you don't need to read any further. If you don't understand, read on.

He can't simply do away with his hatred, something has to replace it. You seem to think I mean fond feelings will replace the hatred, but I don't. The only thing that can effectivly replace his anger (or other emotions) is understanding. This is a great part of Dumbledore's personality, as was greatly illustrated when he was speaking about kreatcher. It has also been hinted at a number of times that those who cannot control their emotions are at the mercy of Voldemort. We know that the only one Voldy ever feared is Dumbledore, who reacts through his understanding and not his emotions. (most of the time anyway). Snape is also able to confront Voldemort, and be in his presence as a spy only because he is able to control his emotions. Harry's training in controling his emotions has already started with the occlumency lessons, which I think he will still have to master.

To illustrate how understanding will give him the power to defeat Voldy, think back to the battle in the Ministry of Magic in OotP. In the death chamber, we saw dueling like we've never seen it before, but in the battle between DD and Voldy, we saw it on another level far beyond what we saw down below. In the Death Chamber, spells were being cast with great speed; in a 5 minute time, there could easily be over 100 spells cast between two duelers. But in Voldy/DD battle, there were scarsly a dozen spells. Most of the time they were walking around speaking casually to eachother. Both of their power comes from a calmness. They are able to control the emotional reaction of having a deadly foe in the room because they understand that those emotions don't help them, but get in the way. They UNDERSTAND their emotions and so are no longer controlled by them. This allowed them to remain calm and react in a more effective and powerful way.

The reason the other wizards don't have the power of Dumbledore and Voldemort is not because they don't know enough spells, or practiced them enough, but because they have not developed this particular skill.

If you read some of the great military treaties, or some martial arts works, you will find this skill drilled over and over. I would recommend "Zen in the Art of Archery," by Eugen Herrigel. It's only 96 pages, which are 4"X6" and a classic martial and zen work. It's only $3.25 at amazon. Bruce Lee's "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" is another popular one, for only $6 at amazon. You can probably find these at your local library too.

As a end note, I think his turbulant relationship with Snape and Malfoy as the perfect training ground for this kind of work. Also, if you can remember during the Voldy-DD battle, Dumbledore said that voldy's greatest weakness was a failure to understanding something.

This has gotten long enough, so I'll end for now. I hope this clears things up.

i really enjoyed the article, the idea of the viel is interesting and pretty likely

mark_evans great point but i must agree with DARIEL73 on the fact that harry and snape would still be "unfriendly" with each other. Take the example of Sirus and Snape, the "made up" but in Ootp they were threatening to dule and if Mr Weasly hadn't walked in, i shudder to think what might have happened.

i must agree with DARIEL73 on the fact that harry and snape would still be "unfriendly" with each other. Take the example of Sirus and Snape, the "made up" but in Ootp they were threatening to dule and if Mr Weasly hadn't walked in, i shudder to think what might have happened.I had thought of moment too. Dumbledore asked these two fully grown men to put aside childish differences of the past and work together. They were not able to accomplish this. This instance gives me the biggest doubt about my theory, but I still think Harry will be able to do what Sirius could not for a few reasons.

1) Remember that while Harry is the image of his father, and perhaps the living reminder of a love that he lost, Sirius was the actual person who did those things.

2) If you read closely, Snape was never the initiator of the confrontation. It was Sirius who began the provocation. Snape made his snide comments, to be sure, but only in response to Sirius's provocation. Sirius seemed unable to respect Snape.

3) Snape and Lupin seem to have worked things out. From what we've seen in PoA and OotP, they seem to have been able to put aside their childhood differences. Remember in OotP when Sirius and Lupin learned of the Occlumency lessons stopping, Lupin insisted on being the one to talk to Snape about it. Sirius has much less control over himself.

4) Snape is a master of Occlumency, and so able to control his emotions to a great extent. (Although he did loose it a bit when he caught Harry in the pensive, and in the hospital wing at the end of PoA.) I think when Harry masters occlumency, something Sirius hadn't done, he will be able to control his emotions for Snape. This would create conditions where it is possible for them to deal with eachother in a mature way.

I know it seems so far fetched. The whole theory stems from my believe that Harry absolutly must be able to put his anger under control if he to defeat Voldemort. At the end of OotP, we saw him try to put his anger to use in a battle, and it almost killed him. Using anger seems to be the teachings of the "Dark Side" anyway. We just have to wait and see I guess.

Hm... I like the theory. I also think the idea of Harry tackling Voldemort into the veil is very amusing. XD The veil is obviously very important... but why would Gringotts have a veil? That's just slightly... odd. It's like the goblins expect people to die in their bank?
tehehe, the goblins expect people to die in their bank part cracked me up.

I think to use the killing curse you have to kill in cold blood. Bellatrix tells Harry "You need to mean them (the unforgivable curses), Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- To enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me long"

I think in order to effectively use the killing curse you need to do so with the intent to murder, not for self-protection, or out of righteousness or neccesity. Therefore I doubt Harry would be able to perform a effective killing curse without becoming more callous than he is now. I mean heck the boy let the man who betrayed his parents, resulting in their deaths, leave unharmed by Sirus and Lupin.

Also Harry has never been good at controlling his emotions, we see this in his occlumency lessons with Snape and his inability to keep his mouth shut in Umbridge's class. So I just cannot imagine Harry becoming unfeeling and cold blooded enough to pull off a killing curse.

I agree. Harry was never the violent type. I think its the veil which results in voldemorts death.

ANGEL, good point, however, if u read on, its not harry that cannot control his fillings, true, he has a hard time, but it dont matter if he masters occlimency, because (and this without my book on hand) i remimber reading a part in oopt when dumbeldore is talking to harry towards the end, when hes discussing the old mans mistakes, evan if he did master occlemency, voldemort could still get into harrys mind, because they both have a part of each other inside themselves from when lord v tried to kill harry.

Now as for Snape and Harry, if u remimber the reason snape hates harry so much was not anything harry did, but because of what harry's dad did. Again as dd was talking to harry remimber dd said something like "i thought snape could put his dislike for your father aside, again another old mans mistake". Now im not saying that they wont have to work together in the upcoming books, but i cant ever see them as on speeking terms.

As for lupin and snape. They dispise eachother as much as Snape dispises sirius, however, going back to the pensive, it was not lupin doing anything wrong to snape, it was all sirius and james, therfore i think that the reason snape dislikes lupin was b/c he did nothing to atempt to stop james and sirius from embarrasing snape. So there is alittle dislike but i think that Snape would rather deal with lupin than Sirius anyday.

Now back in oopt when snap and sirius almost dueled, it was Snape that provocked it, maybe not at that proticular part, but al i recall, Throughout the entire first part of the book Snape always made coments about how he was out helping the order while sirius was doing nothing important at all. Now if anyone was told that they are completly useless all the time by the same guy, they(and i know i would) want to duel them also. So it was actually snape stirring up the trouble, but sirius just couldnt stand it no more. And i dont blame him, actually im surprised he held out that long, i mean, heres a guy the is used to doing whats right and taking action, than gets setup, has his best friends killed, than once he breaks out is told that instead of tring to turn whats wrong right that he has to be couped up in this dirty old house for who knows how long, i mean his patience is alrdy running thin, and u have this guy that hes never liked in the first palce saying how useless he is, i would have killed snape the first time he said something like that to me.

so anyways, thats my opinion srry for being so long winded.

You think this hatred between our Hero and this key character in the Vold war is here to stay? This is exactly why I see the reconcilliation happening. I can't see our Hero having the ability to conquer this great evil in the world while still harboring the very same evil in his own heart.

I don't understand how hate can be evil if every person feels it at one point or another. I think he might be able to hate Snape but understand where he is coming from. Just because you understand something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

I had thought of moment too. Dumbledore asked these two fully grown men to put aside childish differences of the past and work together. They were not able to accomplish this. This instance gives me the biggest doubt about my theory, but I still think Harry will be able to do what Sirius could not for a few reasons.
***deleted for brevity sake***
I know it seems so far fetched. The whole theory stems from my believe that Harry absolutly must be able to put his anger under control if he to defeat Voldemort. At the end of OotP, we saw him try to put his anger to use in a battle, and it almost killed him. Using anger seems to be the teachings of the "Dark Side" anyway. We just have to wait and see I guess.

ME - I get you! I see what you're saying and I agree - Harry must master his own emotions before he can truly move forward in defeating VM. He's made strides, and I don't fault his past decisions per se, but the time has come for him to make decisions based on fact & choice (what is right over what is easy) and not let his emotions dictate his actions/responses - that's your main point and it's a good one - in fact, JKR did say (in an interview somewhere) that Harry will have to master his emotions in this next (6th) book - remember folks, book 5 is where he "cracked up a bit" in JKR's words - now it's time for Harry to take a deep breath and become a more cool-headed person - will he ever like Snape or Draco? Probably not, but that's not the point - you don't have to like everyone (certainly, we're not to like horrible people) but that doesn't mean you can't act with respect and decency to authority (Snape). :)

This was one of thoseeditorials that I read and then curse because it's so plausible, and I want it to surprise me in the end. Erg.

Good one! Very thought provoking. Hooray.

I just finished reading OotP and it occurred to me how strong Ginny has gotten over the last couple of years. Her first year she was posessed by Voldemort - has anybody considered that there could be some lingering connection, or at the very least, some risidual power left in Ginny from LV?

As usual Brandon, it's a very far fetchied article that you've somehow convinced me to believe. I love the theory, keep up the good work! And I think you're right. While Dumbly dore isn't perfect, he certainly has lots[U] of info.

Just a simple thought. Bear with me and I'll get to where this fits in with the thread... I believe the Sirius had to die to give Harry the reason, the impedus, to re-think his priorities. Harry thus far on a day-to-day basis at school taken the 'easy road'. Even though he knows it's important, he consistantly puts off his work (homework, practice for 'remedial potions', other things that he dislikes like working out clues for Tri-wizard tournaments) to do things that he enjoys (wizard chess with Ron, Quidditch, whatever else he fancies). I believe these CHOICES he made previously will need to be re-considered.

It may be that DD knows and understands that part of Harry. There is no way he will be able to lecture the discipline in to him. Harry needs to have a catalitic experience to make the internal change. (You'd have thought the Tri Wizard Tournament would, but it didn't do it.)

DD does not need to be all knowing to see this fact, he's been a headmaster for how many years? (And a teacher before that.) He knows enough about teenagers to make that leap. In most students normal maturity takes care of that, but Harry doesn't have the luxury of time since his protection from Hogwarts (and presumably the Dursley's) will be over when he's graduated. He needs to get up to speed quickly.

I've been thinking it for quite a while, but never saw a reason to share it. What does everyone else think?

I believe the Sirius had to die to give Harry the reason, the impedus, to re-think his priorities. Harry thus far on a day-to-day basis at school taken the 'easy road'. Even though he knows it's important, he consistantly puts off his work (homework, practice for 'remedial potions', other things that he dislikes like working out clues for Tri-wizard tournaments) to do things that he enjoys (wizard chess with Ron, Quidditch, whatever else he fancies). I believe these CHOICES he made previously will need to be re-considered.

It may be that DD knows and understands that part of Harry. There is no way he will be able to lecture the discipline in to him. Harry needs to have a catalitic experience to make the internal change. (You'd have thought the Tri Wizard Tournament would, but it didn't do it.)

DD does not need to be all knowing to see this fact, he's been a headmaster for how many years? (And a teacher before that.) He knows enough about teenagers to make that leap. In most students normal maturity takes care of that, but Harry doesn't have the luxury of time since his protection from Hogwarts (and presumably the Dursley's) will be over when he's graduated. He needs to get up to speed quickly.This is a fair point as well. I don't think many people on this board have experienced this personally, but I have been a room when someone died. This is a very powerful experience. It is almost like crossing a line in your life that cannot be crossed back. I'm temped to say "rite of passage" but it's not quite that, but a similar thing. Your views of the world change in a fundamental way that effect almost every part of how you relate to the world. The death of a loved one would be even more powerful.
I think you are right, I think Sirius's death will be a major catalyst for Harry's maturing.
Originally posted by Wickedgirl86
I don't understand how hate can be evil if every person feels it at one point or another. I think he might be able to hate Snape but understand where he is coming from. Just because you understand something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.Hate is considered "evil" because of it's consequenses. Hatred acted on causes more hatred; mutual emnity leads to an endless cycle of suffering. I think if you truly understand something, hatred would be replaced with sympathy. Look at Dumbledore, he hate no one, not even Voldemort. You are right when you say, "Just because you understand something doesn't mean you have to agree with it," but just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you hate it.

Thanks for agreeing with me, Mark, although I'm sorry that you had to experience that.

I also agree that it's very difficult to HATE a person if you truly understand them. You may still not like that person, and that's fair, but it's very difficult to actually hate them.

I also agree that it's very difficult to HATE a person if you truly understand them. You may still not like that person, and that's fair, but it's very difficult to actually hate them. You've obviously never met my sister. :rotfl:

While I agree that Sirius' death may be a catalyst for Harry feeling the impetuous to study harder, it could be more than that. This may be the first in a series of deaths of the people Harry cares about that will give him theproper frame of mind to bring Voldemort to his death with an "unforgiveable." We've been painted a pretty clear picture of what Harry is capable of when he is unable to control his emotions and is the one thing that is consistently Harry's undoing. It's usually Hermione's cool intellect that brings him back to earth. (And Ron's indignant outrage that spurrs him on). The curses were taught to Harry, and were later attempted to be used against him, and he was then told by Bellatrix how to do them properly. He is being totally framed on how to use them and he has already been painted as someone with uncontrollable power at times. This is the perfect mixture for a person to go berzerk and kill someone in a fit of rage.

The one thing that would be very interesting, is if JKR decides to do away with Voldemort by NOT killing him but rather doing away with him in such a manner that he has his magic ability taken away, or some other form of magic that binds him from doing harm to others without having to be killed.

The one thing that would be very interesting, is if JKR decides to do away with Voldemort by NOT killing him but rather doing away with him in such a manner that he has his magic ability taken away, or some other form of magic that binds him from doing harm to others without having to be killed.I was thinking about this too. There was talk about Petunia being a closet witch or somehow magical and then suppressed it. I was wondering if it was possible that DD took her magic away. Then I thought that might be a good fate for Voldy.

However, I don't see Harry using an unforgivable to kill Voldy. He might try an unforgivable again aginst the DEs, but not the final confrontation.
You pointed out that whenever Harry looses control of his emotions, it is his undoing. That uncontrolled rage almost got him killed at the end of book 5. If anything, he's got to learn that he's going to have to control himself if he's ever going to confront Voldy with a chance.

ID824, GOOD IDEA, however, if u have ever read the lotr trilogy, its been done. The same thing happened to the white wizard sarumon. the excat thing happened to him, his power was taken from him, therefore maken him as powerfull as a normal being. I dont see Jkrowling using this type of ending in her book, b/c she alrdy has heard (im sure) of how everyone compairs Harry Potter and LOTR anyways. So i think she will want to make voldys fall much more exciting than his power bieng striped from him. No i think he will be killed at the end, However getting to that part, we all have our opinions, but only one person knows how thats goina happen, and she's not gonna be writing it for a while considering shes gonna take time off to be with her kids, ( i also wonder if shes taken time off to come up with a good way to finish off harry or voldy). Because we know its goin be good, but anything could happen.

As for harry using an unforgiveable, he has been tought pretty well, (by the most interesting people who you would think would try to get him to not use them) he might just, but i dont see him loosing it and killing somebody in rage. yes he looses his temper all the time, but who wouldnt being in his situation. He will have to control his fillings, and when he can do that i see him being evan more powerfull than dd or voldy put together and they will not know whats goin hit them.

For Brandon and all of those who read his column on a regular basis....

First of all I would like to say that I find all of your articles very intersting. I have not been on mugglenet.com for awhile and thought that I might catch up. And behold I find they have added many things to the website, including wonderful editorials that I enjoyed reading from the beginning to the end. I chose to wait to reply to your theories until the end to make sure that what I wanted to say would not be included in another article that you wrote. But, for only reading the books a few times I feel that you must at least enjoy what you do. Let me say that I am glad someone has taken on the challenge of discussing the Harry Potter books in a serious and adult matter that has kept my interest thus far. I also thouroughly enjoyed your star wars comparisons. They were most amusing. :rotfl:

So, that all said, I must ask a few questions that may or may not have already been answered in some form or another and I have just been unable to find them as of yet. (Maybe JKR has answered them and I can not find them.)

First, How do you know for sure that Harry was born in 1980? Did you figure the date out from other information in the book or from other characters or did JKR tell us that? I just dont recall seeing it anywhere, but hey, I can definitely be wrong about that.

As for your Lost Day theory, I too realized that there was a time lapse that was very perplexing to me. I have read the books more times than I can count, the last count being 12 for the SS, CoS, and PoA each, 8 for GoF and 5 for OotP. So, you can imagine that it was easy for me to follow your logic. I follow how you managed to figure where everyone was and at what time. My question is this...if Fudge blew up the house according to your conspiracy thoery, than how did Harry survive? The Evan's Blood Charm only protects him against Voldemort, not against natural disasters. If the house was on fire, or blown apart, or whatever, I pose for your consideration - where was Harry in the house when he was found? Perplexing...

Second question goes toward the veil theory. I must say that I really liked this theory, even though it did cause Sirius to be irrevocably dead. Bummer. But, if the veil is some sort of holding area for the souls of witches and wizards who were killed by the aveda kadevra curse, than it should be noted that the "souls" go there...not the bodies. So what happened to Sirius's body when he fell through? Where did it go? And what happens to the souls of witches and wizards who die naturally? I don't remember if you said they also went through the veil or just the ones' who were killed by the curse. I am of course writing under the assumption for now that the souls trapped behind the veil are the ones killed by the curse. That would also pose the same question for your thoughts that maybe Harry and Voldemort will fall through the veil together, but then again, where would their bodies end up?

My own theory about the veil was that it was used as a type of execution. Hoenstly, can you see witches and wizards giving their peers the needle? Puleeze. I am sure they would not lower themselves to such barbaric proportions. So, they had to come up with something else. That would explain why Hermione was afraid of it, why Luna and Harry were hearing voices out of it, and why Neville and Ginny were inexplicably drawn too it. Neville in Ginny could have easily heard of things like that from their wizarding families. Luna and Harry were close enough to it to hear it and Hermione just got a bad feeling. Possible I think. Maybe not plausible, but definitely possible.

Moving on, I also wanted to mention your theory about Harry having to die in the end. As much as I dont like that idea, I must admit that after careful consideration I believe that you may actually be right. ugh. The reason I think this is because of GoF. In the end we all know that Voldemort's new body is made from the blood of Harry, bone of his father (a muggle), and the flesh of a rather pitiful human being. But I would like to concentrate on the blood part. Harry and Voldemort now share blood. They also share deeper connections that were there before because of the magic. The combination of blood and magic may just prove deadly to both of them. At first I thought whatever Voldemort did to Harry he would feel. But that doest work because he tortured Harry with the cruciatus curse in the end of Book 4 and he had o reaction to it. But in OotP, he tried to possess Harry and almost killed himself. What if because he tried to do that, he made the connection between the two of them stronger than ever? It wouldnt be the first time his plan had backfired on him.

These are just a few things I wanted to throw out to you for consideration. But I do want you to know that I will once again be reading all of the books to try and piece together your theories. Keep doing a good job. Sincerely, Anastasia

(i have just read throughout ALL UGL-editorials! *swells with pride*) and as all editorials, this is great.

BUT, well, we actually don't yet know what the Veil really is, do we? I hope Jo will give us a proper explanation. I like your theory, but it seems just too weird for me like there was a map with a little pin wherever one of the various veils is located. LOL It's just so ... weird.

But everything's possible. of course. ^_________^

this was a very intresting thing you came up with. Your take on Snape as a teacher, not only amusing, but it was so right. I think the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape will awnser why he allows him to teach, although J.K. sorta awnsered in an interview. In which, she said something along the lines of Snape preparing people for life, that not everyone is nice. Still good job.

5/5

I havent read all the post yet, but I like to point something about Snape, potions and DADA. If Sanpe is really a Spy in DE, the cover of Teaching Potions its more credible than theaching the kids DADA... its against all they want. If say that Cr. jr. was DADA teacher remeber he had to get inside and when you WANT teach you may do an aplication. By your own free will. Thats the main problem. Dumbledore always knew he would need his spy again and he could not afford to lose him only by giving snape the DADA class. Thats my theory.

I JUST HAD AN INCREDIBLE EPIPHANY!!!

Well, at least it seemed incredible at the time. It is 2:00 in the morning for me, and the very witching time of night, so anything even remotely intricate seems incredible.

Here's some food for thought:

(by Brandon)
When Voldemort's essence was ripped from its body when he tried to kill Harry, it didn't go through the veil because of all the steps he took back in the day. His essence was bewitched so that should Voldemort find himself on the wrong end of an Avada Kedavra, his essence would not pass through the veil into the beyond and be lost forever.
What if one of the measures Voldemort took was a spell to anchor his essence to the body of the person who killed him?

This would technically be Harry, because the curse bounced off him to strike Voldemort. He would use Harry's body as a physical anchor for his spirit so that it did not pass into the afterlife, and then the rest of his "essence" would be free to roam the world at will. This would explain his connection to Harry - the essence is still attached to him - and it would explain how only Harry can kill him, by somehow extracting Voldemort's essence from himself, separating it from his own and destroying it. Also, that would be where Harry's strange powers come from, his ability to speak Parseltongue, for example. And it would explain how Harry is able to sense Voldemort's mood, since what affects one part of the essence affects the other as well.

So when Voldemort was resurrected, he only had part of his essence or soul or spirit, whatever you choose to call it, and since then the connection has gotten stronger over time. Before he came back, Harry's scar hurt only when he was near to Voldemort - like two magnets pulling together - or when Voldemort was feeling a strong emotion, in which case distance would be less of an object. Voldemort may not have been aware that, after coming back, the connection would still be in place, just like he wasn't sure which of his preparations worked. Now that he knows, he is using his essence as a bridge to invade Harry's mind, like what he did the last day of OWLs.

Actually most of this theory was already formed. The bit that was the epiphany was that one of the steps Voldemort took to immortality would be to invoke some spell to anchor his essence here in the real world. I have suspected for a long time now that Voldemort's essence was split between himself and Harry. It certainly fits with Dumbledore's question to that remarkable silver instrument of his: "But in essence divided?" And remember how Jo told us that the real question we should be asking is not "Why did Harry live?" but rather "Why didn't Voldemort die?", in other words "What steps did he take that enabled him to survive?" This may be the key. If I'm right, then it is the key. It wasn't supposed to be guessable, although she said someone might, and I think I've guessed it.

Thoughts?

Interesting, Goldmare. I like that explanation better than I do the "changeling hypothesis" that's going around - I like to think that Harry is Harry though he is connected to VM, he's not a puppet or a body with VM's spirit trapped in him - the idea of "anchoring" seems better b/c it still allows Harry the free choice to be himself while explaining their "connection" - hopefully we'll find out more about said connection this weekend and we'll have to get back to this idea then to see how close you are!

Well, okay, I was wrong. But I was close. I won't say more for those who haven't read HBP yet, and hopefully we can continue to discuss this after the ban on spoilers in this section has been lifted.

I still don't understand why there is a connection between Harry and Voldemort. Surely the Avada Kedavra wouldn't cause that?

why is peters hand more dead than harrys blood?