TPF #4 - Seamus Finnigan

Discussion for The Phoenix Files #4 - Seamus Finnigan (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thephoenixfiles/tpf4.shtml). Sorry for the delay in posting this installment. The fault lies entirely with me and not Chris. Enjoy!

I guess somebody should be the first to reply. As I said in my owl today I was really looking forward to reading about Seamus. Great piece of work, not as long as we got before, but you are improving in your quality. I always thought Dumbledore would be the Half-blood prince, but now you've got my theories trashed with your suggestion of Seamus.

I didn't think there was much about him until now. I guess he could prove to be vital in the end. Nice one to notice about the Sorting Hat to think for that long. You are right, even the ones with multiple talents (Harry, Hermione) didn't take so long to be sorted.

If Seamus is in fact a/the half-blood prince. Where do you think he is the prince of? Some clan or kingdom perhaps? Or maybe something smaller, like a group of people (half-bloods?) Leader of the half-bloods or something?

From an online dictionary:
1 (a.) The chief of any body of men; one at the head of a class or profession; one who is preeminent; as, a merchant prince; a prince of players.
2 (v. i.) To play the prince.
3 (a.) A title belonging to persons of high rank, differing in different countries. In England it belongs to dukes, marquises, and earls, but is given to members of the royal family only. In Italy a prince is inferior to a duke as a member of a particular order of nobility; in Spain he is always one of the royal family.
4 (a.) The son of a king or emperor, or the issue of a royal family; as, princes of the blood.
5 (a.) The one of highest rank; one holding the highest place and authority; a sovereign; a monarch; -- originally applied to either sex, but now rarely applied to a female.

Nice appreciation of Seamus. While I don't think he's the HBP, there's still a good chance. As for his suggestive appearances in the earlier books, with JKR sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between when she's just being a good author and fleshing out secondary characters to create a more "real" world for the main characters to inhabit, and when she's setting us up for something later. She's good at both, but as we've seen, particularly sly with set-ups. It's hard not to suspect that everything's important (remember Mark Evans).

Yeah, I agree with Chris; Seamus is an intriguing character. He is a tough character to try to analyze. JKR mentions him pretty often, so we are very familiar with him, however, we still don't know much about him. I agree with Chris in saying that the Sorting Hat was probably going to put Seamus in Slytherin when it was taking all that time deciding where to place him. Possibly Seamus is related to Slytherin somehow and the hat was going to place him there but didn't because he's not full-blood? I don't know, I guess that's really stretching it. I looked up what the name Seamus means, and interesting enough, it was derived from the name James. As far as the HBP goes, I can't find anything that would indicate Seamus to be the prince except the fact that he's a half-blood. (Considering I don't think that JKR means half-blood in the sense of one parent a wizard and the other not, I think this rules out Seamus.) I more think of Half-Blood Prince as a Sociological term, not so much biologically a half-blood. That would be just too easy! Anyway, I am curious how his character will evolve. Maybe he and Dean will come out of the shadows a little more in Book 6. I'm pretty sure that Dean will, with all the references to that mysterious hand of his; there has to be something more to him! I am curious to see an editorial on Dean's hand! Anyway, that's really getting off on a tangent. I think that Seamus and Dean will both become more prominent characters in the rest of the series.

What references to Dean's hand?

It's hard not to suspect that everything's important (remember Mark Evans).[/QUOTE]

This is the same problem that I have! I read way too much into everything.

@Colleen1: what do you mean by sociological term? you don't think prince refers to somebody royal, but more to 'a leader' of some kind? A bit like Strider (Aragorn) in Lord Of The Rings? When we first meet him in the book, he is a cloaked man, who doesn't even closely resembles a prince (which he is), but he does lead the pack from Bree to Rivendel. If I read your words right, you think of the HBP more as somebody who unites the half-bloods.

Nice article and I will agree that Seamus will have a role to play coming up, but I'm leaning towards Dean Thomas. JKR has a lot of info about him on her website (including the fact that, unbeknowst to him, he's a half-blood. What else doesn't he know?), info that she meant to put into the books, but didn't work out yet.

Dean Thomas seems to have some sort of magical hand. I think that it is first mentioned in POA, but I'm not sure. I gathered bits and pieces of information throughout the book that made me think that something is going on with his hand. He says he's an EXCELLENT drawer, he asks Harry if he wants him to forge his permission slip to go into Hogsmeade because I thought he said something along the lines of he's able to write just about any way possible (forgive me, I'm going off memory, I don't have the book here). Also, during Lupin's DADA class with the Boggart, Dean saw a severed hand. That's the thing he's most afraid of-a severed hand. He may have somehow got it cut off when he was young and had to get a magical one. That's how it can draw really well and disguise his writing. That's just my theory, though. Interesting enough, wasn't it Dean that is a soccer fan? I don't know if that was Dean or Seamus, but if it was Dean, then that's interesting, because soccer is one of the only sports that you can't use your hands.............

Megaflix-Yes! That's what I was trying to say, only you said it way better than I did. I think "Half-Blood" means "Leader of the Half-Bloods" more so than literally being of half-blood descent. For example, this sounds queer, but if Hermione were to free the House Elves, they may look to her as the "House Elves Queen," even though she's obviously not a House Elf. I know that sounds silly, but that's along the lines of what I mean. Someone like Mr. Weasley. Arthur (as in King Arthur) loves Muggles. Their whole family (except for Molly) is named after royalty (ex. Frederick, George, William, Charles, etc.) In fact, I've often wondered if the HBP is a Weasley. The name Ron literally means "Advisor to the King" and they are always singing "Weasley is our King." Or, the Half-Blood in terms of royalty could mean that one parent is royal (Arthur) and the other half isn't (Molly) so their children are half-blood royals. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Hehehehe, I get off on a tangent easily. We are supposed to be talking about Seamus. Hehehehe.

Colleen, very interesting theory. I had never noticed that before, but there are alot of references to hands. Maybe he is afraid of a severed hand because he is so good with his and would be devestated if he lost it.

Oh yeah, Elwing-I like your idea better. You are probably right! The boggart does show what people are scared of the most, and having a magical hand cut off would really stink. The fact that it's a severed hand and not just a hand makes me think that you are right.

Hermione wanted to be in Gryffindor and I think in Book 5 when Luna asks her why she isn't in Ravenclaw, Hermione replied that the Sorting Hat wanted to put her there, but she wanted Gryffindor. Harry, too helped the Sorting Hat decide by telling it he didn't want to be in Slytherin.

Maybe the hat took a longer time with Seamus because he had no particular preference as Hermione and Harry did and the hat had to make the decision on its own.

Desraelda, I think that might be the case. A lot of kids probably do have some kind of idea what house they want to be in, so it makes the job easier on the sorting hat. If someone does not know or care, the hat has to go through much more information in their brains. This is why I do not think that the hat was trying to put him in Slytherin. He does not seem devious in any kind of way. He just does not fit the Slytherin type. If he were to go into another house, I would go with Hufflepuff because he does not fit in Ravenclaw either.

Nice article. I appreciate you point out that Seamus might too, like Harry, be placed in Slytherin rather than Gryffindor. I'm curious what Seamus was thinking when he was placed under the sorting hat? Would it be, like Harry, "Not Slytherin, not Slytherin"?

Apart from Seamus, the hat took a long time to decide with Neville, too.

Colleen, very interesting theory. I had never noticed that before, but there are alot of references to hands. Maybe he is afraid of a severed hand because he is so good with his and would be devestated if he lost it.

I might be wrong here but, I seemed to remember Seamus boggart being a banshee. And I think that it was Dean Thomas' boggart that was a severed hand. I think I remembered that because I heard and saw movies with the banshees in them and I remembered him being scared of banshees, and thinking how that would fit him since he is Irish. It could have been a fear since child hood, from a tale well circulated in his home town.

Great article- not sure I'd say Seamus is the half-blood prince, but I do agree that his character has a larger role to play in the series.

luvygrifindor- They were talking about the severed hand in relation to Dean.

It's a very interesting theory, certainly. I shall have to go back and reread the books, and pay more attention to Dean and Seamus, and Neville too.

Well Chris you have done it again !. This is another great piece of work . Your idea that Seamus could be the Half-Blood Prince is a very good one, he certantly is very vocal about being a half-blood , and we have seen over and over JKR leaving clues like this with simple people mentioned in passing becoming very important later on . I think Seamus could be the prince of one of the old royal families of Ireland ?. Do you have any information on Irish royalty ?. Well done again . :tu:

This was a very interesting installment! But instead of me thinking more about Seamus (and I too, fell into the trap of pronounceing his name "See-mus" Chris!) It got me thinking more about Dean Thomas. I never thought of the drawing gift as a big deal. Now that you mention it, maybe it is mentioned a little too much to be just a little bit of interest. But I don't think there's enough evidence to support the 'Dean's hand' theory. There's only the several references to Dean's artistic talents and his boggart. Although if there are any other references to Dean's hand, I'll be totally convinced.
I'm convinced that the Half-Blood Prince is Dean or someone totally new. Dean's half-blood as well as Seamus. I don't understand why it hasn't been mentioned more. Maybe Dean's supposed to lurk in the shadows until now... I don't know. But Dean just is one of my favourite 'in the shadow' characters. He's there, but never in the limelight.
Well, anyway, great report Chris!

Dean could be one of your upcoming Files Chris! There's more to him than we think. I like the theories about his hand, I didn't remember him being scared of severed hands (whether his own hands or somebody else's). Would be a real pain in the ... for a wizard not to have his (wand)hand anymore. He can't do magic anymore and he can't draw any more.

Excellent editorial. I'd never noticed the fact that Seamus took so long to be sorted until you mentioned it. At the same time, I wonder what about Seamus would have put him in Slytherin. I think Desraelda's suggestion of him not knowing ahead of time what house he wanted to be in sounds reasonable, although... why wouldn't he know?

All this talk about Dean's hand is intriguing. I guess a severed hand as a person's worst fear is a little unusual. I don't, however, believe he has a magic hand. If he did, it wouldn't be much trouble just to conjure up a new magic hand if the first one got severed. I suspect he just doesn't want to lose his real (original) hand, with it's drawing talent.

I don't think JKR would leave Dean's background out of the books if he was going to be the half-blood prince. It's obviously not necessary to the storyline, and since the HBP is necessary, it doesn't seem logical to put them together.

I personally don't know who I think will be the HBP, and I don't even know what JKR means by the phrase. The whole "leader" thing sounds the most plausible, because I doubt there are any REAL princes around. I want to know what the HBP will actually do, though. I guess we'll just have to wait until July 16th to find out...

On the subject of Seamus being the HBP...I don't think so. Everyone seems to be forgetting the little hint that JK gave us to the identity of him ( and yes I know I said him and not her).

(He) looked rather like and old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

This unfortunatly don't fit Seamus, or anyone else that we've met so far I think. I could be wrong on this of course.

Thank you for a great editorial Chris. I look forward to reading future ones!! :clap: :agree:

On the subject of Seamus being the HBP...I don't think so. Everyone seems to be forgetting the little hint that JK gave us to the identity of him ( and yes I know I said him and not her).

(He) looked rather like and old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

This unfortunatly don't fit Seamus, or anyone else that we've met so far I think. I could be wrong on this of course.

Thank you for a great editorial Chris. I look forward to reading future ones!! :clap: :agree:
Do we really know that this is a description of the HBP? You know how JKR is, she tantalizes and hints without telling us anything.

I'm really looking forward to what you'll give us about Arabella Figg.

Gahhhh!

OK, panic time, everyone!! Hahaha...not really. I sent the first four Files as a bundle to my editor Sharon (who's the best!), so I was really happy with them all when I sent them. Unfortunately, I had a TON of new information that I was going to add to the Seamus File (and now my apologies to Denise, who sent me in this direction; you'll be on the next one, I promise!). I will just have to add this new information on here.

So I was going to tell Sharon NOT to post yet, but my computer decided to catch a virus or two and is out of commission. This means I have gotten very little work done over Spring Break, though I have been thinking and writing! Anyway, major, major updates to ALL FOUR of the threads for my Files will be coming up hopefully on Sunday or very soon after that.

Thank you all very, very much for your praise on this File. I apologize once again for its briefness. I'm working on it. ;)

The Dean's severed hand theory, as proposed by Colleen1, is an EXCELLENT one. I think there is definitely something there, and it definitely could find its way into a File before HBP comes out.

By the way, what did everyone think of the cover? Verrrry mysterious, eh?? Looks like the past is going to become even more important, if I am correct in assuming I'm seeing Harry and Dumbledore over a Pensieve...

Alright, well I'm actually logging on from my public library right now, so sorry I had to keep this brief. Definitely promising to update the FOUR threads with NEW information and theories in the next few days, so please keep visiting!

Keep your eyes peeled for that next File, too!

While I don't think that Seamus is the HBP, I do think there is more to him then what we have seen so far. I do think that he will play a role in the upcoming books. Very smart of you to catch the sorting hat issue, I hadn't thought of that before. :tu:

Updates on all FOUR Files, that's fantastic. You must be the first one to ever Update an editorial. It's becoming a living and breathing editorial. Mugglenet should be really proud to have you on board.

About the covers: I trust the English adult one the most. If you take a look at the 'redesigned' adult UK covers of the first 5 books you see: a red philosopher's stone photo, the doorway to the chamber of secrets with the snakes on it, azkaban prison itself, the goblet with blue flames and a flying phoenix. All of those starred in the plot itself (as opposed to the children's covers, which show mostly characters or harry's happy things like flying). My thoughts are: why oh why is there a potions book on the cover? Harry, Ron and Hermione already made a potion from the book Moste Potente Potions, I wonder if this one holds the recipe for: death. Snape said in year 1 he could put a stopper on that.

Having Dumbledore on the cover could be a hint, but as both Scholastic and Bloomsbury won't publish the REAR side of the cover I expect to see the HBP on the backside, thus ruling out Dumbledore. They say they won't release the backside until the 16th of July, but I think we will see it earlier behind the secret door on JKR's website.

Also something that bugs me: today I watched PoA and I saw Buckbeak eating ferrets. I remembered Imposter Moody turning Draco into one as well. We all know the relationship between Draco and Buckbeak. Strange connection there. How will his parents react if they learn he has been turned into a ferret by a fellow Deatheater? Might turn young Draco over to the Good side (Detour anyone?)

Also something that bugs me: today I watched PoA and I saw Buckbeak eating ferrets. I remembered Imposter Moody turning Draco into one as well. We all know the relationship between Draco and Buckbeak. Strange connection there. How will his parents react if they learn he has been turned into a ferret by a fellow Deatheater? Might turn young Draco over to the Good side (Detour anyone?)
I believe JKR has said that Draco won't be turning good, but I couldn't find the quote.

Maybe Buckbeak will scent ferret on Malfoy and this time finish the job he started in PoA. But much as I dislike Draco, he doesn't deserve that kind of death. And if Buckbeack gets caught, he'll be executed for sure this time.

But it was fun thinking of Draco bouncing up and down as a ferret in GoF.

To answer your question Desraelda...I do believe that this insert was describing the HBP. If you go to books 6&7 on Mugglenet then click on facts...you see where they state that the door on JK's website was opened giving us this excerpt from the book describing the HBP!!

I just want to say that I think it's awesome that Chris checks all our comments on the forums, and then writes in. No other columnist does that. It only makes his columns all the better because we can interact directly with the columnist. By the way, I like the way The Phoenix Files is set up. I like analyzing each character individually. It's important to research each character and is a nice change from hearing the same old theories. I hope we can analyze many more characters together before July 16, because this is a good way to learn more about what's going to happen in HBP.

Megaflix-I like your ideas about Draco's Detour (where there's a possibility that Draco will turn good. Well, I shouldn't say good-just maybe against Voldemort.) If Voldemort were to kill Lucious or Narcissa, then I could see Draco going against him. That would put Draco and Harry on more even ground. Draco is always cutting up on Harry for losing his parents to the Dark Lord. Wouldn't it be ironic if the same happened to him. JKR said that Harry and Draco will hate each other until they die, but that doesn't mean that they won't end up on the same side. Like Sirius said, wizards aren't divided into just Death Eaters and good people. Regardless, I've always taken Draco's Detour to be literal. Since it's the 3rd chapter (or somewhere around there) I think Draco will go to Diagon Alley and his "Detour" will be going into Knockturn Alley.

i'm so full of ideas that I could write my own phoenixfiles if I wanted to, but I just like discussing other people's stuff and adding more to that. I haven't read any of the books in the original English, only the Dutch translated ones, so I can't back things up with canon evidence, nor write any editorials. (in Dutch translation Godric's Hollow is a streetname for example, not a place or a town).

My first English Potterbook is ordered though (HBP). I don't want to wait for 5 months until the Dutch one is released in November and read in those months 100 new editorials & theories about stuff I haven't read about yet.

@Colleen1: I don't think Draco will ever become good, he isn't raised like that as a child. Lucius got captured at the Ministry and he's lost the prophecy Voldemort wanted to have. He's likely to be tortured to madness or AK'ed.

I like your theory about the detour being litterally. He did show a lot of interest in the goods at that store in Knockturn Alley. Maybe he is looking for some Dark Arts stuff to throw at Harry, because Harry is still responsible for his dad to be in jail and losing all credibility of the Malfoy family.

We are going a bit off-topic here, let's get back to Seamus and save the Draco stuff for when there is a Draco Phoenix File (hint hint to Christopher).

Sorry for going off-topic. I should have sent an OWL to Megaflix.

Now back to Seamus. In other forums, I've found several Celtic connections, the wood wands are made out of, green being the color of death in celtic lore, of course Banshees being the harbinger of death, and another one I can't recall right now. Maybe all of these celtic connections don't point to Seamus being the HBP, but to Seamus being the next one to die. How upsetting.

Hey Chris, good work! You made all of us to think a bit... and I must tell I had always found Seamus interesting and uintriguing, in fact he is my favorite Gryffindor and now I can see why... and sure he can be the HBP, why not? Not only he's a half-blood himslef, but he was sorted into Gryffinndor for one reason: Gryffindors are brave over all, and Seamus had prooved it: he was the only one in OotP to ask Harry what really happened with Cedric, and was the only one to give him his back... i think that takes a lot of courage considering he sleeps in the same room with Harry, his best friend Ron, Neville -who had shown to be loyal to Harry- and Dean, who didn't argue with with Seamus, but didn't support him either (in fact, I remember he apologyzed for Seamus' behavior).
So what if Seamus is strong enough to turn people against Harry later inn *** books? Or what if he's strong enough to put people together? If it's true the hat was considering to sort him into Slytherin, then there's something about him... and as Chris said, in his only D.A. lesson he was just about to make a patronus... well done, Seamus! Ok, he didn't do good at Charms with that feather, but besides Hermione, all students -including Harry- had failed once or twice in class.
I say lets give him a chance, I'm pretty sure he will do great things in *** future... oh, and I would love to see him romantically involved with Lavander... I'm just waiting for ti to happen.
Well, once again, well done, Chris!
P.S.: what about a Phoenix File on Lupin and Theodore Nott? Those would be great.

Another great acticle Chris! I'm going to have to agree with most everyone else, I don't think that Seamus is the half-blood prince. If he was, I think we would have seen more hints in the books. My guess is that the half-blood prince is a new character.

Whoa now! Nicely done Chris! This article was all like... flowy.. if that's a word. lol I NEVER knew that his name was pronounced Shay-mus, I've been callin the poor kid See-mus the whole time. I always wondered if Devon Murray (plays Seamus in the movies) had some sort of speech prob cuz of when he says his name in the interviews, but I guess not.

Anyhoo! I never even noticed the whole part where the Hat couldn't decide where the ell to put Seamus. That could prove to be mondo important.

Now onto Dean: I love this kid! I really hope that Jo goes more into depth on him and Seamus too.
Also, during Lupin's DADA class with the Boggart, Dean saw a severed hand. That's the thing he's most afraid of-a severed hand. He may have somehow got it cut off when he was young and had to get a magical one. That's how it can draw really well and disguise his writing. That's just my theory, though. Interesting enough, wasn't it Dean that is a soccer fan? I don't know if that was Dean or Seamus, but if it was Dean, then that's interesting, because soccer is one of the only sports that you can't use your hands.............
That is one CRAZY idea! I love it!!! Man, that's totally psycho, I hope this proves to be important cuz I wanna know wot's the dilio with hands and that kid. lol So much for posting an intelligent post. :p

There is a possibility that Seamus is the HBP, he is half-blood and the Sorting Hat Scene is a bit fishy. But I still think that J.K. will introduce some new character he will be the Prince. But you never know, J.K. has this uncanny way shocking us, the readers. :eyebrows:

you don't have to say sorry for going off-topic, ya know. It all adds to the fun of speculating and making theories.

I like Coki's ideas about Seamus being the only one to ask about Cedric. He is a Gryffindor after all. The hat has decided so (even if it took a lot of time)

______________
I'd love to see a TPF on Arthur Weasley, our Muggle-lover. Being bitten by a snake Nagini's size isn't fun I guess (although he loved to try stitches)

Great editorial, as always! I never really thought about how important seamus character might be over the next books, but now i think he will play a important role over the coming instalments.
However, i dont think Seamus will be the HBP i think the character JKR described on her website, which hedwig4eva posted, will be the HBP, i also think this character she is discibing was Godric Gryffindor, or a desendent of his because of the lion clue, but i could be totally wrong, like usual.
Neway good artical, looking forward to the next one.

You're right, Sophia... but who says Seamus can't be a descendant of Gryffindor himself? There's not statement -at least as far as I remember- that Godric Gryffindor came form a pure-blood family and it kept that way... but being realistics (althought i said before to give Seamus a chance) it's very improbable, but not impossible, for him to be the HBP.
But chances are getting short... if we think of Hogwarts students, all the girls are cancelled as it is a Prince, not a Princess, right? And we can think on Slyhterins as they are supposed to be all pure-bloods. Now, if we stick to Gryffindors, Ron and Neville are pure-bloods as well, and it had been said it won't be Harry; there are just Seamus and Dean left (in Harry's year... but maybe one of the Creeve brothers, remember they're half-bloods as well, but then there would be 2 princes). We don't know that much about the Ravenclaw boys (that is Michael Corner, Terry Boot and Anthony Goldstein, or even Roger Davies) to think on them.
But there it is Hufflepuff. Many had said this house will play a bigger role in the next two books as they're always resigend to loose and are trapped in middle of two sides (and being in the middle of something could be understood as being half and half), are hard workers and humble and loyal and etc..., but couldn't the HBP be inside those hard-working guys? The posiibilities are Ernie Macmillian, Zacharias Smith and Justin Finch-Fletchley. Let's check:
a) Despite his pompous attitude and the fact he seems to be the leader of his little Hufflepuff group (which turns him a good candidate) I'm pretty sure Ernie said he's a pure-blood, so he's kinda out.
b) I suppose by his attitude that Zacharias is as well a pure-blood, though it hasn't been said and who knows, remember that, after all, like Seamus, he confronted Harry when everyone was too busy kissing his magical ***, and that says something on him; besides, I'm sure he hasn't been introduced in the series for nothing.
c) But what about Justin? He is a half-blood who played a big role on CoS, and JKR said books 2 and 6 are somehow connected in such a big way, what if they're connected on the characters? I remember Justin being introduced since book 1, then he appeared in books 2, 4 and 5... so I said it, I'm seriously thinking on JUSTIN FINCH-FLETCHLEY as the HBP (maybe Chris you can "open" his file as well...)

Aren't the Creevey brothers and Justin Muggle-born and not half-blood, though?

I enjoyed this file on Seamus (I am also guilty of pronouncing it SEE-mus in the early days) and believe there is definitely something coming with that guy. Not necessarily him being the HBP, but it is a possibililty.

I never registered Seamus asking Harry about Cedric and everything as brave, but it is because as Neville knows, it's harder to stand up to your friends than your enemies. I thought maybe the Hat pondered on Hufflepuff when on Seamus's head, but we know he's not particularly loyal, so Slytherin is a good bet. He makes me think slightly of Voldemort with his banshee-Boggart, because a banshee is all death-related and that is Seamus's worst fear. Maybe he wouldn't also mind immortality? Not saying he's the next Voldy or anything, heh, but it is interesting all the same.

About Dean = I like the hand theorizing; his artistic skills have been mentioned more than once, but I don't think he has a magical hand. I also don't think he's a very likely HBP because his blood status was revealed to us by Jo on her site and we should have had more hints in the books and it makes it kinda obvious when we're just being told about it directly.

I am very interested in the sociological term in thinking about the half-blood prince, but I can't see it fitting. Why would there be some sort of group of half-bloods? Maybe seeking safety from DEs and Voldemort? And wouldn't the man(boy) who the leader be called the half-blood king? Maybe if it were a boy, rather than a man, but I dunno, or maybe the son of the leader...

I look forward to the updates of the files, they are great and I love how Chris responds to us on here. :)

Hmm... ObsessiveMegz, you got me on that one, can't really remember if Justin is a muggle-born or a half-blood, but think you're right... so, there goes my theory (but just again, who knows, right?)

Hmm... ObsessiveMegz, you got me on that one, can't really remember if Justin is a muggle-born or a half-blood, but think you're right... so, there goes my theory (but just again, who knows, right?)
ObsessiveMegz is right, Justin is muggle-born. Pg 198, US Paperback, CoS, "Justin ... let slip to Potter he was muggle-born." Pretty sure the Creevy brothers are, too.

The Creevy bros are muggle borns. Neither of their parents had magical blood. Creevy is a pretty good wizard though. He was petrified almost the entire year and he didn't fail his exams at the end of his first year :)

I thought that Seamus was the HBP before reading the editorial, but I think that it gave me more to work from. Also they put the "Me dad's a muggle, me mom's a witch" line in the movie! Also JKR had some notes about Seamus on her website. Sound fishy anyone?

The Creevy bros are muggle borns. Neither of their parents had magical blood. Creevy is a pretty good wizard though. He was petrified almost the entire year and he didn't fail his exams at the end of his first year :)

Dumbledore cancelled final exams at the end of that year, remember? :)

And those updates are on their way -- as promised! I'm hoping to get at least one posted by tonight (that would be the McGonagall one), so keep your eyes peeled!

How about the idea of the HBP being a muggle born, considering Tom Riddle being half blood & heir to Slytherin, why shouldnt the HBP be muggle born?

No evidence or anything, just a thought that sparked as reading the other comments.

How about the idea of the HBP being a muggle born, considering Tom Riddle being half blood & heir to Slytherin, why shouldnt the HBP be muggle born?
Hmmm, maybe it's because it's called the HALF-BLOOD Prince, and not the MUGGLE BORN Prince! You are making no sense wotsoever...

Hmmm, maybe it's because it's called the HALF-BLOOD Prince, and not the MUGGLE BORN Prince! You are making no sense wotsoever...

If the discussion is along the line of the person being Prince of the Half Bloods, and not a HALF BLOOD per se, then it makes perfect sense.

if Hermione were to free the House Elves, they may look to her as the "House Elves Queen," even though she's obviously not a House Elf. ...

If the discussion is along the line of the person being Prince of the Half Bloods, and not a HALF BLOOD per se, then it makes perfect sense.
Ack, well blimey I feel like an idiot now lol. Sorry, robaus79, I must read things before I open my big mouth... er... fingers? I dunno.

Ack, well blimey I feel like an idiot now lol. Sorry, robaus79, I must read things before I open my big mouth... er... fingers? I dunno.

I prolly should have gone to the trouble of quoting first :cool:
*mental note to self*

If Robaus79 is correct, then my theory on Justin keeps standing since as I said he played a big role on CoS and maybe repeat it in HBP... thta plus the fact of Hufflepuff House is supposed to have a bigger role, then we have a point.
Buut if it isn't Justin, I should insist in Zacharias Smith: he's a Hufflepuff, he's brave, quidditch player and his arrogant attitude could mean he somehow knows he's important... the only thing is: we don't know if he's a half-blood. But my guesses are between those two.

Didn't JKR say that someone found out he/she was magical at a later age?? This means that any muggleborn could turn into a half-blood if mom/dad goes magic. Is there anybody (male, so not Hermione) who has 2 muggleparents we know? I mean 'know' in a way that they have been introduced themselves already in the book.

Is there anybody (male, so not Hermione) who has 2 muggleparents we know? I mean 'know' in a way that they have been introduced themselves already in the book.

Petunia, I put my money there, as Brandon Ford describes in his Closet Broomstick theory.

Petunia the Half-Blood prince would be an exciting storyline :) . I'm not slaying your theory by the way! I too think that Petunia will be the one who will show magic at a later age, I've always thought she had magic when she said: the day she got her letter (referring to Lily). It was never said she (Petunia) didn't get a letter.
I was just looking for any male people in the 5 books who is known as a muggle, but who turns out to be a half-blood, which rules out Petunia as she is female.

I was just looking for any male people in the 5 books who is known as a muggle, but who turns out to be a half-blood, which rules out Petunia as she is female.

Could we go outlandish? Maybe Petunia is James Potter in disguise, and we find out he is the half blood prince.... :rotfl:

Now seriously, I have read a few articles that suggest it could be Dudley? I kind of like the theory that its someone close to Harry, that we dont like.

Under Brandon's theory, Petunia could be a witch, so if we found out this was the case, then it is possible Dudley could be Half Blood, but it's poses too many questions, and requires an editorial of its own..

Although I don't think Seamus is the half-blood prince, this excellent editorial has gotten me to believe that he could be a very important character. It's all very interesting, especially about his boggart. I believe that boggarts are some of the best clues to interpreting a character, and sometimes some of the most overlooked.

About the Dean's hand theory- I'm intrigued, but I don't think he has a magical replacement hand. He was raised by his muggle mother and her second husband, neither of whom had any idea that Dean's father was a wizard who died standing up to Death Eaters. Dean wouldn't have been in the position to get such a magical hand growing up. Perhaps the magic is his ability, not some machine-type apparatus. Perhaps it's just some character trait JKR knows about that isn't important enough to completely make it into the books, but sneaks in without her realizing.

Nice article again, thanks!

I always knew Seamus was pronounced SHAY-mus, it's my son's middle name! Very, very Irish.

I don't think Seamus is the HBP, though I absolutely LOVE his character. I think (if not a new character) it is Justin Finch-Fletchly. Don't forget he was supposed to go to Eton, which is a school in England for the rich and the royal.

Just a thunk. :)

See? My Justin Finch-Fletchley theory is finally getting followers! lol... ok, not that it's MY theory, but it's nice yto know you're not alone, so thanks Molly.

Justin is back, and I can't disprove him now! :p He could well be the HBP, he's a good Hufflepuff, meaning he's just and loyal, so...he's a possibility.

robaus, Jo has said that Petunia is a Muggle and there's no more to Dudley than we see. (I have to disprove someone's theory...;))

I don't think the Sorting Hat would consider Seamus for Slytherin -- aren't all Slytherins pure-blood?

Wish I had my HP's with me. Darn school!

I agree with a lot of what you said, except I have my doubts that he is the half blood prince, but I was just thinking I can't remember what book it was from but I know someone asked how Hermione (the genius of the year) ended up in Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw..Does anyone else think there is something behind that comment besides the simple comment itself

Yup, there are lots behind that comment. First, as much as Hermione is always holding Harry and makes him to think before he acts, making it seems she is scared, we know for good she is very smart, but is even bravier, and she will show it.
Second, it's like the group has a little of everything. Harry was supposed to be in Slytherin,a dn Hermione in Ravenclaw; Ron is a pure Gryfindor as all his family is/was, and Neville is considered to belong to Hufflepuff instead... but they all ended up in Gryfindor for one reason.
And finally, it shows how even the sorting hat -which is supposed to be accurate and fair- can doubt about things... and who knows, make mistakes?

I don't think the Sorting Hat would consider Seamus for Slytherin -- aren't all Slytherins pure-blood?



Uhhh...don't think so.

It says that Slytherin PREFERRED those whose ancestry was purest (Sorting Hat Song). While Slytherin himself may well have not accepted a student into his House who he knew was a Mudblood, I believe that the Sorting Hat may well have put some cunning, conniving, rule-breaking Half-Bloods or Muggle-borns in there in the past 1,000 years. I could be wrong, though. :)

No, you're not wrong. After all, Tom Riddle aka Voldemort (the greatest Slytherin in the series and the most powerful dark wizard) was a half-blood, right? So not every Slytherin is pure-blood.

D'oh! I knew I'd regret not being able to look it up myself! :rolleyes:
Although I also should've remembered that Riddle wasn't pure....

Riddle was bound to be put in Slytherin as he was the last remaining descendant of Salazar and that probably makes up for his Muggle side...although as we know, choices are everything and if he didn't want to be in Slytherin, he didn't have to be, so that makes me think that somehow Riddle knew about his mother before he came to Hogwarts. Heh, s'posed to be talking about Seamus...ah well. ;)

Chris -- good job on Seamus :)

Out of the 5 boys in Harry's year (including Harry), we know Dean and Seamus the least (in the books). We know more about Dean from Jo's website (she stated something to the fact that Dean's backstory wouldn't make it in the septology).

On to Seamus -- I think it's possible that he could be the HBP. I don't necessarily think that the description Jo released HAS to be the HBP, it could just be a picture of Godric Griffyindor.

I never really picked up on the fact that it took a long time to sort him into Griffyndor. On a related note, if he was a descedant of Godric Griffyindor, I think the Sorting Hat would know that right away (or maybe not take as long)....

Meghana

nice analysis of Seamus, but I just have voice my disagreement about one thing:

Good on Harry for trashing DD's office - it's less than I would have done.

I don't think it's a *stupid* thing to do, either; emotional, raging, temperamental, but not stupid. Stupid would be trashing Snape's office.

No, you're not wrong. After all, Tom Riddle aka Voldemort (the greatest Slytherin in the series and the most powerful dark wizard) was a half-blood, right? So not every Slytherin is pure-blood.

(A big, Homer-style "D'oh!") Wow. OK, this is what happens with me when reading the HP series. Something is right in my face and I totally overlook it...

Anyway, thanks for the help, there, Coki!!

So obviously not all Slytherins are pure-blooded. In fact, I would venture to say that MOST of them are not because Hagrid says in CoS that nearly all wizards are "half-blood or less" and that they would've "died out" if they hadn't married Muggles.

And Meghana, I couldn't agree more. Seems to me like that is just a portrait of Godric Gryffindor, and that is no proof nor evidence that he is the HBP. In fact, I would be highly surprised if the first thing JKR released to us about the book was a description of the title character. When did she give us information about the Order of the Phoenix before Book Five came out? Nope, the small "snippets" from the book we received prior to its release had nothing to do with the title at all. :)

I'm agree with Chris, if the Half Blood Prince is someone that has already been introduced in the series, Seamus has my vote. But he doesn't fit the description of the Half Blood Prince realeased earlier this year. That was really good of you Colleen 1, noticing Dean's magical hand, I thought I was the only one who noticed that.

Good points you guys. I agree on the bit about it being Seamus if it has been a character that's already been introduced to us. Otherwise, it is a mystery...

i was thinking the half-blood prince would be ron but then i relized the hes a full wizard and i think seamus might be

I personally am still intriqued by the "magic hand" angle - I never picked up on it! I'm usually better at the Tiptoeing Through the Tulips that Rowling is so fond of, but that one totally surprised me. Now I'm extremely frustrated that my HPs are thousands of miles away. I may need to visit the library for this. Gah. This place is a blessing AND a curse.

I'm more interested in Dean, He's now going out with Ginny Weasley. I think he will be playing a more active role in Books 6 & 7

As far as the Daily Profit having a go at Harry every few days, Seamus may not have known who to be loyal to. His mother did not even want him to come back. He obviously showed loyalty to at the very least, Hogwarts, by coming back. Then the first thing he does is ask what really happened. If he could have sent back a favorable report to his mother, she may have felt better about letting him go back. As soon as that article came out in the Quibbler, he did send it to his mother. He was only hostile to Harry because Harry insulted his mother. Again, loyal. He was caught in a very tight place. I think that he did the best he could with everyone else's actions. He stayed friends with Dean, even though Dean was very much on Harry/Dumbledore's side. He even stayed in the same Dorm room. If he truly did not believe in Harry/Dumbledore, he would have asked to be moved.

Myrtle -- my thoughts exactly! Very well put.

Not trying to ruin the fun but Dean Thomas isn't half-blood. Page 198 Amercian Version OotP has Dean stating "my parent are muggles" during the argument between Harry and Seamus.

That woud be because according to JK Dean and his mother think Dean's father was a muggle, but the truth is he was a wizard killed by Voldmort when he refused to join him, but it's an unknown fact for them, they think he just left... it's all in JK's official site.

Thanks for the redirect I had forgotten that myself. However in the same quote she states that his background was cut for Neville's, I would be quite surprised if he is the HBP. But I suppose we're getting really off topic here now :). I am really enjoying the site and it's users. Keep the great posts coming.

I like Seamus, but I think he is not going to take a important rule in the history of Magic. It is more, he is one I think he would survive... althougth he has a very strong character... who knows

I have been reading all of your ideas and observations and thought I would share a few of my own.

For starters, I don't recall seeing anything on Rowling's site that said that the description ((He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.) was of the half-blood prince. It was simply an exerpt from the book. It could be the half-blood prince, Godric Griffindor, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher, or any number of other people. (I personally think it might be the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.)
I would also like to mention a few things about the Seamus (as half-blood prince) theory. I think a lot of this has been said in different places, but some of it may not have. Here it is all together in one place.
First of all, the books usually talk about Seamus and Dean at the same time. They seem to be best friends so it makes sense. We also get background information about them at a pretty even pace. It seems odd to me then that Rowling put up her information on Dean on her website but nothing on Seamus. If there is all that information on Dean, it follows that there should be more on Seamus. In fact, he is the only boy in Harry's year (Harry, Ron, Dean, Seamus, and Neville) that we do not have much information on now.
I also find it interesting that the information on Dean was originally in The Chamber of Secrets, the same book that the half-blood prince story was cut from. Rowling says that the information on Dean will never make it into the books (which is what makes me think it is not him- if it were we would be getting that information in the books). What if Dean and Seamus both had bigger roles in book two before the cuts and she cut out Dean's information after deciding to take out the half-blood prince's (Seamus') story?
Finally, when Chris Colombus directed the first two movies, he did not put in things that were not important. Yet we have Seamus saying that he is half and half. ("Me dad's a muggle, mum's a witch, bit of a nasty shock for him when he found out.") It could be that it was just left in for comic purposes, but it could also be that Rowling told them to leave it in because it was important.
So there you have it. This is why I think that the half-blood prince will be Seamus. If any of you have any evidence against him (not for someone else, against him) then I would love to hear it!

. Finally, when Chris Colombus directed the first two movies, he did not put in things that were not important. Yet we have Seamus saying that he is half and half. ("Me dad's a muggle, mum's a witch, bit of a nasty shock for him when he found out.") It could be that it was just left in for comic purposes, but it could also be that Rowling told them to leave it in because it was important

I absolutely agree. The screenwriter Steve Kloves and JKR collaborated very closely (they say so giggling like best pals in one of the Extras on DVD).

My one comment on the long pause before placing Seamus in Griffindor: Perhaps the Sorting Hat was thinking carefully about the fact that Harry Potter's sorting turn was coming up later and Harry would need allies in the future. So maybe the Hat was trying to figure out the best manner to get Harry and Seamus in the same House together. If you recall from the LOTR books, the whole series is about how no one succeds alone.

My one comment on the long pause before placing Seamus in Griffindor: Perhaps the Sorting Hat was thinking carefully about the fact that Harry Potter's sorting turn was coming up later and Harry would need allies in the future. So maybe the Hat was trying to figure out the best manner to get Harry and Seamus in the same House together. If you recall from the LOTR books, the whole series is about how no one succeds alone.
This would be strange if it were true. It would imply that the sorting hat might put people in gryffindor to win against slytherins. I don't think the sorting hat was ever for or against anybody. I think it evenly sorts people into the house to which they belong. They belong in a certain house because of their traits individually, not because the hat wants specifically to place certain people together. Certain people are placed together, but only because they happened to have similar characteristics that warrent their placement. I'm rambling. Sorry.

This would be strange if it were true. It would imply that the sorting hat might put people in gryffindor to win against slytherins. I don't think the sorting hat was ever for or against anybody. I think it evenly sorts people into the house to which they belong. They belong in a certain house because of their traits individually, not because the hat wants specifically to place certain people together.

Exactly true. The Hat, though made by Gryffindor, has shown no partiality throughout the series that we know of. I truly believe it Sorts fairly and equally, not based on talent and potential alone, but rather on the other qualities of the founders.

Does it say Mde by Griffindor? - i know it belonged to Griffindor, but that doesn't nec mean that he made it, i'm sure the hat it's self says that they all put a bit of themselves into the hat....

The Hat tells us that 'The founders put some brains in me, So I could choose instead!' So, the Hat was not only made by Godric.

hmmm... that's an interesting theory about seamus and the sorting hat. but we don't really know how long the hat was on harry, it just gives the dialogue between harry and the hat. but i do believe that most people would have a least a couple of houses they might do well in. i hadn't really thought much about the dean's hand stuff, either, but it will certainly be interesting to see what comes of it in the HBP.

Possibly Seamus will fall in love with Ginny and vice-versa. If that'll be the case, then Seamus will get into a Potter Position, where he wants to get into a romantic relationship with Ginny, but he's friends with Dean, who's probably really mad at Ginny.

Then Ron'll get mad at Ginny if she likes Seamus because Seamus is close friends with Dean, then there'll be another family feud.....(Ron and Ginny.) Of course, I'm probably just reading too much into Seamus.

I did wonder why the sorting hat took a longer time sorting Seamus than some other people. As for Seamus/Ginny, IMHO I don't think it will happen. But then again, I'm slightly biased as I'm an avid Harry/Ginny shipper ;)

I don't really think Seamus is bad or anything like that. He seems to take a while before he makes up his mind about something (Harry being crazy,) but in the end he makes the right decision.