Did Ginny send the Valentine?

In Chamber of Secrets, when Ginny sent Harry the Valentine, the poem went like this:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord
(US Paperback page 238 Ch. 13)

This being said, focus on "Dark Lord"... Harry tells us in OoP that "only Death Eaters refer to [Lord Voldemort] as the Dark Lord." (Will get page if needed.)

With this in mind: Was Ginny the sender of the Valentine, or did another person do it?

I think Ginny probably sent it. Remember that Tom Riddle had some control over her at the time so he probably could have influenced her choice of words.

Interesting theory there.

I assume she just did it for the rhyme. :)

I wonder why JKR used "Dark Lord" instead of You-Know-Who? I think she could get something to rhyme with "Who" that represents the color black.

I also heard someone say they thought Fred and George sent it.

Ginny sent it,she was only a little girl.

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the you-know-who.

I think dark lord sounds better.
Plus she was under Tom's control.

Ginny sent it,she was only a little girl.

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the you-know-who.

I think dark lord sounds better.
Plus she was under Tom's control.

She could have changed the "blackboard" to something that rhymed with WHO or NAMED for that matter. Dark Lord just seems funny since it's related to evil.

And Tom wasn't controlling her the whole time -- plus, Harry had the diary in his possession at this point during the novel.

It would be too many syllables to use He-who-must-not-be-named and it would sound akward to use You-know-who. Also, if that's what JKR had intended, she would have cleared it up by the end of that book since it's not a big enough detail to carry into PoA, farless book 6 or 7. Although you have a point, I think it's over-analyzing the poem to suggest that the use of Dark Lord means it was sent by a Death Eater.

hey on original post! I thought it was impossible to think of anything new :)

But yeah Ginny sent it. Didn't she turned red or something when Malfoy (was it him?) read it? She had a major crush on him and was little and naive. So yes it seems that she could have sent it.


.....or maybe a secret admirer.

Yes, I'm sure Ginny sent it.
His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the you-know-who. :lol: How about "His hair's black like inside a flue" to rhyme with "You-Know-Who?" Or "His dark hair makes me coo?"

I guess 'dark lord' could have been foreshadowing that something was going on with Ginny, since I think we were meant to guess right off it was her who sent it. Along the same lines as Percy force-feeding her the pepperup potion?

I don't know.... I think maybe Draco sent it, as a joke, and said it was from Ginny to embarrass her. I don't have my book with me, but didn't Ginny blush AFTER Draco said it was from her?

Ginny is soooo shy around Harry, and is too embarrassed to even be in the same room as him. I don't think she'd be so bold as to send him a valentine. Remember in the book shop at the beginning of CoS, when Ginny stands up for Harry, and Draco makes fun of it, saying "Potter, you got yourself a girlfriend!" That's where he got the idea, and decided to make further fun by sending him a fake valentine.

It would explain the use of Dark Lord rather than You-Know-Who as well.

Many poems use a complicated (To me anyway) feature called Metre. I don't understand it but it's a series of symballes that indicate beat. If you-know-who or he-who-must-not-be-named was used, the metre (Which i think seperates the poems from the prose) would just not have been used. Plus the whole rhyme.

Yes, yes, you're right, the rhythm was off. :sigh: Okay, metre-ing:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His messy hair's quite fetching, too.
I wish he were mine, he's really divine
That brave guy who beat you-know-who.

Happy? :evil:

She probably said Dark Lord, as others have said, because she was being "controlled" or inflenced by Lord Voldemort.

i think she did send it cos she was defensive when draco teased him about the valentine thing.

She could have changed the "blackboard" to something that rhymed with WHO or NAMED for that matter. Dark Lord just seems funny since it's related to evil.

And Tom wasn't controlling her the whole time -- plus, Harry had the diary in his possession at this point during the novel.
Even if she wasn't influenced by Tom at that moment, I think that she might still be able to take in somethings that happen while under Tom.

I don't know.... I think maybe Draco sent it, as a joke, and said it was from Ginny to embarrass her. I don't have my book with me, but didn't Ginny blush AFTER Draco said it was from her?


If someone embarrassed you like that, wouldn't you blush too? I remember what it was like to be 11 years old. Being put on the spot like that can be pretty traumatic. Especially if it's about your first crush.

I wonder why JKR used "Dark Lord" instead of You-Know-Who? I think she could get something to rhyme with "Who" that represents the color black.

I also heard someone say they thought Fred and George sent it.

"You-Know-Who" has too many syllables. She had to make it fit the meter.

Nice catch.......I thought Ginny sent it but on second thought it could have been someone else like Draco. He is evil enough to do it. But it could have been Tom acting through Ginny. The blush could have been attributed to the fact that she likes Harry and now everyone knows but not really because she sent it. Quite frankly, she said she didn't remember what happened when she was possessed so she could have done it.

She could have changed the "blackboard" to something that rhymed with WHO or NAMED for that matter. Dark Lord just seems funny since it's related to evil.

And Tom wasn't controlling her the whole time -- plus, Harry had the diary in his possession at this point during the novel.

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair that is wonderfully untamed...
I wish he were mine, he's really divine
the boy who beat the one who must not be named...

Good eye. Calling Mr. Riddle "The Dark Lord" is similar to calling Hitler "Führer." It would take more than naiveté. It's either the influence of a DE, written by a DE, or Ginny has a sick sense of humour that we've never seen.

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is unruly and pure black too
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered You know Who

hehe fun with poems

For some reason when I first read the book I never thought it was Ginny I just though she was embarressed cuz of what Draco said. ^-^

btw do those singing Goblins cost money?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it only mentioned in Goblet of Fire, that only DEs call Voldie the dark lord. There is always the possibility JK just slipped on that one small line.
It is an interesting point though there was no definite link to ginny and the poem, just assumption. Either way good thread.

But yeah Ginny sent it. Didn't she turned red or something when Malfoy (was it him?) read it? She had a major crush on him and was little and naive. So yes it seems that she could have sent it.
That's right. Draco teased Harry about having a Valentine and Ginny blushed. Not a straight yes or a no to the question of wheather she sent it or not, but it does implicate her. However, some may say that she blushed because she didn't send it ans was jealous of whoever did. She may have blushed if she thought Harry like something else.

I tend to believe the former explanation, myself.

Yes, yes, you're right, the rhythm was off. :sigh: Okay, metre-ing:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His messy hair's quite fetching, too.
I wish he were mine, he's really divine
That brave guy who beat you-know-who.

Happy? :evil:
hahaha! :rotfl: yeah, THAT completes the valentine mood...very romantic, that one!

i dunno, she wanted harry to sound impressive right? "dark lord" certainly sounds better than "you know who", not to mention more poetic. and u know, i never really thought she wrote the poem herself. i always imagined that she just gave a general idea and like, the angel-creature made it up. or maybe she had a quill similar to skeeter's.

anyway when harry said only death-eaters called voldie "dark lord", we dont even know if that's true! we're basing our theories on a speculation! HARRY ses it in reference to snape only (to spite him at most) and its not like he's heard every person's way of addressing voldie. also, when harry said it, i dont think he remembered ginny's love poem cuz u know, unlike us, he didnt have the poem memorized... hehe.

I always thought that Ginny had send the card.

Did Harry ever wondered from who the card could be? I mean I would like to know from who I got a valentine card. But Harry doesn’t even think about the card en his sender afterwards. Yes of course Harry has more important things to think about (the diary, the attacks on muggleborns,…) but it’s still strange.

I've always thought she sent it. About her reffering to Voldemort as the "Dark Lord" I doubt she'd know that only death eaters call him that, and it rhymed conveniently.

I always thought that Ginny had send the card.

Did Harry ever wondered from who the card could be? I mean I would like to know from who I got a valentine card. But Harry doesn’t even think about the card en his sender afterwards. Yes of course Harry has more important things to think about (the diary, the attacks on muggleborns,…) but it’s still strange.
Twelve year old boys generally don't care who send them lovey-dovey cards. Just ... Gross ... and get back to the Quidditch Pitch.

anyway when harry said only death-eaters called voldie "dark lord", we dont even know if that's true! we're basing our theories on a speculation! HARRY ses it in reference to snape only (to spite him at most) and its not like he's heard every person's way of addressing voldie. also, when harry said it, i dont think he remembered ginny's love poem cuz u know, unlike us, he didnt have the poem memorized... hehe.

:tu: :tu: One hundred%. Actually, the poem proves the point wrong. Harry thinks he's only heard DE call Voldemort the Dark Lord, but unless he knows that the poem is DE written his memory is faulty. I do believe as well that there might be others who say it. Fudge? Skeeter? I'm not sure, I should probably look for it sometime. :shrug: I remember seeing someone bring up instances of the use before (wishes she had canon word search).

When I first saw this issue, I believed it was Ginny but now incline towards Fred and George. All of Ginny's actions in this scene are directly attributable to her seeing Riddle's diary fall out of Harry's bag. And Fred and George *knew* the poem without being present for its only reading- what would their source be? 'Eyes as green as a fresh pickled toad' is definitely the type of thing Forge would write.

When I first saw this issue, I believed it was Ginny but now incline towards Fred and George. All of Ginny's actions in this scene are directly attributable to her seeing Riddle's diary fall out of Harry's bag. And Fred and George *knew* the poem without being present for its only reading- what would their source be? 'Eyes as green as a fresh pickled toad' is definitely the type of thing Forge would write.
This is why I love these forums. I think I have JKR nailed (how Siriusly arrogant of me), and then someone (like bluemeanies) comes along with an absolutely fresh view. Witch or not, Ginny is still a girl, and I could never see her writing that first line. Can't you just see Gred and Forge each writing one line after the other?

Maybe we are thinking more into this than we should, yes maybe Ginny just did it for ryhming purposes. but maybe it was (as many people have said) because she was possesed bt TR.

In Chamber of Secrets, when Ginny sent Harry the Valentine, the poem went like this:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord
(US Paperback page 238 Ch. 13)

This being said, focus on "Dark Lord"... Harry tells us in OoP that "only Death Eaters refer to [Lord Voldemort] as the Dark Lord." (Will get page if needed.)

With this in mind: Was Ginny the sender of the Valentine, or did another person do it?


I'm sorry but a 11 year old girl doesn't compare he loved one to a fresh pickled toad...I think Malfoy could have done it or Fred and George but it's seems a bit mean of them...they always seem more protective of her.

Seeing as Ginny's actions throughout the second year were pretty much driven by TR, who is to say that he didn't assist the writing of her Valentine? I don't think it can have been Fred & George - the reference to the Dark Lord points to it having had input from a DE or LV himself. Perhaps it was Ginny's idea to send the Valentine and wrote to Tom in the diary for help composing it. Whether or not she had help, I still believe that Ginny wrote this.

Still, the reference to the 'Dark Lord' in the Valentine illustrates that events that occur in early books may be explained or viewed in a different light when read in conjunction with later books - in OotP Harry asks Snape why he refers to LV as the Dark Lord when he's only heard DEs refer to LV as such.

This begs the question as to whether there is anything in the early books yet to have its full significance realised? I think I read somewhere that JK said that CoS is the key book in the series so perhaps we will see events in that book in a new light once we have 6 and 7...

My personal opinion remains that Fred & George wrote it, and included "the Dark Lord" because they weren't as good as poetry as the people on here and couldn't get a rhyme to fit "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" or "You-Know-Who"! Ginny is far too shy in CoS to do something public like send a Valentine, and in the scene she doesn't in fact blush at all -

'Right,' he said, sitting on Harry's ankles, 'here is your singing Valentine:
His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard.
I wish he was mine, he's really divine,
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord.'
Harry would have given all the gold in Gringotts to evaporate on the spot. Trying valiantly to laugh along with everyone else, he got up, his feet numb from the weight of the dwarf, as Percy Weasley did his best to disperse the crowd, some of whom were crying with mirth.
'Off you go, off you go, the bell rang five minutes ago, off to class now,' he said, shooing some of the younger students away. 'And you, Malfoy.'
(Malfoy picks up Riddle's diary, Harry and Percy tell him to give it back, Ginny sees the diary and looks "horrified", Harry uses Expelliarmus to get it back from Malfoy.)
But Harry didn't care, he'd got one over on Malfoy and that was worth five points from Gryffindor any day. Malfoy was looking furious, and as Ginny passed him to enter her classroom, he yelled spitefully after her, 'I don't think Potter liked your Valentine much!'
Ginny covered her face with her hands and ran into class.

In light of the fact that she has just noticed that the diary she thought she had rid herself of has passed to Harry, I think she covers her face with her hands and runs away because she is worried about what damage would be done if Harry found out how to work the diary and Riddle told him that she fancied him (or already had!) and not that she was upset because Harry didn't like "her" Valentine.

The fact that Fred & George take great joy in teasing Harry and don't seem to have been present to hear it - and yet somehow know the words - makes it pretty certain to me that they were the ones who sent it, it seems very in-character for them.

I take your point re Ginny running out with her face in her hands being becase she saw that Harry had the diary, after all we know that she ransacked the boys dormitory shortly afterwards to get the diary back, having seen that Harry had it (cf Tom's conversation with Harry in the Chamber 'she saw you with the diary you see'), but I don't see this as a convincing argument against Ginny having written the Valentine. Nor do I see the fact that Fred and George enjoy teasing Harry about the Valentine evidence that they had written it - after all they are in the same house as Harry, Ron is their brother - they would certainly have heard about the Valentine, and as for the teasing, well, wouldn't you?
I think the use of 'Dark Lord' in the Valentine is the key. None of the kids (save perhaps the Death Eaters kids) would know LV as the 'Dark Lord' he is always 'You know who', or 'He who must not be named'.

I don't think Ginny sent the valentine. Becuase of her crush, she was shy around Harry, and I doubt she had the courage to send him the valentine. And even if she did, I don't think she would have said that 'his eyes are green as a fresh pickled toad.' It's more likely that she'd say that his eyes were like emeralds or something. I'm willing to bet that Fred and George sent the valentine. They're born pranksters, and know that Ginny had crush on Harry then. It's something they would do to tease and embaress Ginny.

Here is another quote from the book...
"...Yes, I have taken the liberty of arranging this little surprise for you all - and it doesn't end here!"

Lockhart clapped his hands and through the doors to the entrance hall marched a dozen surly-looking dwarfs. Not just any dwarfs, however. Lockhart had them all wearing golden winds and carrying harps. "My friendly, card-carying cupids!" beamed Lockhart. "They will be roving around the school today delivering your valentines!..."

Since it was a surprise, how could Ginny have arranged it? I had assumed that Lockhart had sent the valentine. (I don't think that Lockhart actually liked Harry in that way :evil: ) I doubted that Ginny would have arranged it since she was so shy, and the poem itself seemed very Lockhart-like (well intentioned but in extremely poor taste).

I also didn't think too much of the "Dark Lord" reference. Harry was telling Snape in OotP that he only heard Death Eaters call Voldemort Dark Lord. It was just a point of argument after Snape told Harry not to use the Dark Lord's name. Afterall, Harry heard Trelawney refer to the "Dark Lord" in the PoA prohpecy (even if she was in a trance at the time).

Alright, I haven't read anything, but I doubt that Ginny sent the Valentine. If she did, I don't think that she thought it was going to be a song with those words. I wonder if Gilderoy found out about her crush on Harry, pursuded her to send him a Valentine. And then Gilderoy made her valentine into something more embarrasing then expected. I could definately see that happing to Ginny. Of course I dunno Draco could have sent it.:shrug:

The problem I find with the 'Ginny was possessed by Tom, so he influenced her to say Dark Lord' arguement is that the Valentines period was when she distictly was out of Tom's control (given that Harry had the diary). I also still don't think that Harry is right when he says that (what do the Centaurs call V? btw, gosh I wish my books weren't three hours away). If Ginny wrote it it was under her own steam. And whilst the events of the reading do not preclude her having written it, her reactions are meant to be in reaction to the diary, not the Valentine (the Valentine is a red herring). The poem sounds so Gred and Forge and they knew it when it isn't logical that they should.

I think she only said that because it rhymes with blackboard.

Anyway, if she wrote the valentine or not, I don't think it has anyhting to do with the plot. If she hadn't wrote it or something took her over to write it, then it would have been revealed by now. There have been 3 more books since then.

I think she wrote it, because what would it matter if anyone else wrote it?

Tom couldn't have, but the whole dark lord thing could have either just stuck with her...but it did rhyme, and she just picked it because she isn't one to say Voldemort, and "You-Know-Who," or "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named," doesn't really rhyme too well.

I personally think it may have been Malfoy's lame attempt at a joke, how else would he have known that Ginny sent it?? He seemed to find it funny and he happened to be there when it was being delivered........coincidence??? Maybe, maybe not I guess we'll never know.........

I think Draco did it and now there's going to be a load of people who are going to contradict my theory, please feel free to do so :D

Interesting theories, guys.

Twins, Draco and even Lockhart... Someone brought up a good point, how was it arranged and how did Draco know where to be and when to be there?

*Disclaimer: Thanks to anyone and everyone who commented; this is my first thread-starter and I was doubting anyone would comment, but thanks for taking the time, guys! And if I come off too strong I apologize, and if this has already been talked about I apologize again. (I spend most of my time on the Love Thread, so I never discuss much else but romance.)

I do think its ginny, if anyone. Semi-anonymous letters are a good way to say to someone you like them then actually facing them if you're nervous or scared. Atleast in theory. Remember this is an 11 year old girl so she may not be the smoothest player in town. Plus about the toad type of lines, it may be a cultural difference between muggles and wizards that would allow someone to even consider that romantic.

May be Ginny wrote this. No one would send to harry a valentin card except Ginny. I don't Fred or Goregewould do that. They ever didn't make to Harry any thing funny. They do with Percy our Neville or Ron but not Harry. so I think Ginny is the one

Funny, I always thought it was Lockhart who sent it. It seems like the type of fame worship thing he would do.

But now that I think about it again, it almost certainly was Ginny. Not one of her brighter moves, I must say.

Fred and George not making jokes with Harry? What about later in the book when they stroll down the corridors in front of him, shouting "Clear the way, seriously evil wizard coming through!" as a joke? CoS is full of things like that, the Valentine to me just seems like another extension of it!

I think she did from the way she blushed mayb darklord just sounded better than he who must not be named and she wouldn't use Voldermort

i thought it was obvious she sent it?

I really doubt that Ginny would have sent it. I think that she would not have written something so chessy, and if she did why be in the hall when he received it. I would have run away or something. Not stood there and blushed. I doubt that she did do it. Ginny was not someone who was brave enough to stand by and see what Harry's reaction was. I think that she didn't do it at all. It's not in her character to do that. I just can't see it. I could most definately see that Malfoy or the Twins or even Lockhart would do it. I still stand by my theory that Lockhart talked Ginny into sending Harry a Valentine after he found out that she likes him. And then he promised her that it would be a good valentine that would sweep him off his feet. She agreed and then Lockhart made up the song. And I think that either the Twins or Malfoy overheard and changed the poem.

I really doubt that Ginny would have sent it. I think that she would not have written something so chessy, and if she did why be in the hall when he received it. I would have run away or something. Not stood there and blushed. I doubt that she did do it. Ginny was not someone who was brave enough to stand by and see what Harry's reaction was. I think that she didn't do it at all. It's not in her character to do that. I just can't see it. I could most definately see that Malfoy or the Twins or even Lockhart would do it. I still stand by my theory that Lockhart talked Ginny into sending Harry a Valentine after he found out that she likes him. And then he promised her that it would be a good valentine that would sweep him off his feet. She agreed and then Lockhart made up the song. And I think that either the Twins or Malfoy overheard and changed the poem.


That's pretty much what I mentioned before...It just doesn't seem to me that a 11 year old girl would write such a hideous poem about the boy she has a crush on. 11 year old girls would compare his eyes to something lovely not a fresh pickled toad...I think it was Malfoy or the Twins, but not Lockhart. As goofy as Lockhart is...I don't think he would intentionally bring Harry more attention, he likes to keep that all to himself.

That's pretty much what I mentioned before...It just doesn't seem to me that a 11 year old girl would write such a hideous poem about the boy she has a crush on. 11 year old girls would compare his eyes to something lovely not a fresh pickled toad...I think it was Malfoy or the Twins, but not Lockhart. As goofy as Lockhart is...I don't think he would intentionally bring Harry more attention, he likes to keep that all to himself.

Good point. I think your right that Lockhart didn't do it. So I bet that it was the twins or Malfoy. It seems like something they would do. I really doubt it was the twins though. As much as they like to make jokes, I don't think they would do something that would hurt or embarrass Harry that badly. I couldn't see them insulting Harry by comparing his eyes to a fresh pickled toad either. I could be wrong though.

I don't the twins would do something to hurt Harry (I don't see the Valentine as hurtful at all, just embarrassing but a bit of a laugh), but they didn't seem to mind singing the song to Harry for several weeks afterwards so I doubt they'd have any qualms about sending the Valentine in the first place.

Draco I think would have preferred Harry to get no Valentines so he could laugh at him - that's even worse than an embarrassing Valentine! So I doubt Draco sent it.

It could've just been something to keep the scheme of the poem going.

I have no doubt that it was Ginny. It sounded like it was written by a young, lovestruck female. If it were someone else like Tom Riddle or an older student I would've expected more out of them than what was written.

I don't the twins would do something to hurt Harry (I don't see the Valentine as hurtful at all, just embarrassing but a bit of a laugh), but they didn't seem to mind singing the song to Harry for several weeks afterwards so I doubt they'd have any qualms about sending the Valentine in the first place.

Draco I think would have preferred Harry to get no Valentines so he could laugh at him - that's even worse than an embarrassing Valentine! So I doubt Draco sent it.

Nah, I would think that Draco would get more of a laugh out of Harry receving a very embarrasing Valentine. Draco wouldn't know if Harry received a Valentine or not, and besides, not receving one is not that bad. But receiving a Valentine that is quite embarassing and insulting is very funny and a good target for future ridicule. I think that Draco would have done it. To embarass not only Harry but Ginny included. He would definately strike out at two people instead of just one.

I have no doubt that it was Ginny. It sounded like it was written by a young, lovestruck female. If it were someone else like Tom Riddle or an older student I would've expected more out of them than what was written

Ginny is not a silly or shallow person. She would have come up with something more sweet and less embarrassing, that way she wouldn't embarrass herself or Harry. I don't see her as the kind of person to tell Harry that his eyes are like a green fickled toad. I could see her saying that he eyes are green like the deep ocean. That by far is more romantic. Ginny would have been far more complimentrary to Harry than insult him by saying that his eyes are like the color of a toad. As for it being an older person, I bet they did write it, except they wrote it so it looked like Ginny would have written it. I doubt that Tom Riddle would have written, what would have a gotten from writing it anyways.

Ginny is not a silly or shallow person. She would have come up with something more sweet and less embarrassing, that way she wouldn't embarrass herself or Harry. I don't see her as the kind of person to tell Harry that his eyes are like a green fickled toad. I could see her saying that he eyes are green like the deep ocean. That by far is more romantic. Ginny would have been far more complimentrary to Harry than insult him by saying that his eyes are like the color of a toad. As for it being an older person, I bet they did write it, except they wrote it so it looked like Ginny would have written it. I doubt that Tom Riddle would have written, what would have a gotten from writing it anyways.


Exactly! Ginny would have come up with something better then that peom. Draco honestly seems like the best option...it's a bit too cruel for the Twins to do it. They like to tease Harry and Ginny but that was a bit over the top and Ginny was already in a right state and I don't think the Twins would do that to her.

And that's an excellent point Tom Riddle wasn't interested in embarrassing Harry he was interested in killing him. That would be a waste of his time.

Don't forget that Malfoy was mad when Ginny stood up to him in Flourish and Blotts. Who wants to be shown up by a little girl? Could that have been payback? Then he could have planned it on her, when she was upset because Harry had the diary?

I never believed that it was Ginny who sent it... it just didn't fit with her oh-so-shy personality. And, honestly, do you think that Tom Riddle would have ever permitted her to send a Valentine Card to his greatest enemy? It doesn't make sens.
Plus, they kept the Dark Lord (Señor Tenebroso) phrase in the translation. When I read it in my mother language it sounded odd, but I thought the translator had done it so the rhyme would fit together... but when re-reading the COS in English... well. I am sure that we will know who sent it in a future. Probably not Ginny. She is a lioness too proud to do that.

i had come to the conclusion that sending the valentines would have cost money...when i was in junior high we sent carnations and they were like a dollar a piece. if this is the case im certain the weasleys wouldnt have been able to afford it.. as for who wrote it...maybe draco or snape?

i'm not sure if indeed it was ginny. although the ryming theroy is very good, what if it is a slythie that harry does not know about. she could be sending the valentine under ginnys name so her fellow slithies will not make fun of her. plus, at the time ginny did like harry, but i dont think she liked him to that extreme, i mean she only knew him for a short time, so why would she send a sign of love to someone she hardly knows? although it is a good theroy. maybe...just maybe.

had come to the conclusion that sending the valentines would have cost money yes, that makes a lot of sence. i think that we should take that into consideration, for how could the weasleys afford to send something when they cant even afford new robes?

I never believed that it was Ginny who sent it... it just didn't fit with her oh-so-shy personality. And, honestly, do you think that Tom Riddle would have ever permitted her to send a Valentine Card to his greatest enemy? It doesn't make sens.
Plus, they kept the Dark Lord (Señor Tenebroso) phrase in the translation. When I read it in my mother language it sounded odd, but I thought the translator had done it so the rhyme would fit together... but when re-reading the COS in English... well. I am sure that we will know who sent it in a future. Probably not Ginny. She is a lioness too proud to do that.

hm...yes...

Originally Posted by hotharry
Ginny is not a silly or shallow person. She would have come up with something more sweet and less embarrassing, that way she wouldn't embarrass herself or Harry. I don't see her as the kind of person to tell Harry that his eyes are like a green fickled toad. I could see her saying that he eyes are green like the deep ocean. That by far is more romantic. Ginny would have been far more complimentrary to Harry than insult him by saying that his eyes are like the color of a toad. As for it being an older person, I bet they did write it, except they wrote it so it looked like Ginny would have written it. I doubt that Tom Riddle would have written, what would have a gotten from writing it anyways.


this is exactly my point....

This is interesting. I don't rember reading that, however I did read it a While ago so I can't rember every thing

Ginny may have taken advice on the wording from another student, probably Ron, as to how to word it, but she wrote it. The wording is sooo Ron its scary. If the twins wrote it they would have broken their legs to be there when it was read aloud to Harry. It would have been too good to miss. As far as Malfoy goes, it would be out of character for him to use a valentine to embarass someone and he would have no way to know or care if the "Weasly" girl liked Harry.

Ginny may have taken advice on the wording from another student, probably Ron, as to how to word it, but she wrote it. The wording is sooo Ron its scary. If the twins wrote it they would have broken their legs to be there when it was read aloud to Harry. It would have been too good to miss. As far as Malfoy goes, it would be out of character for him to use a valentine to embarass someone and he would have no way to know or care if the "Weasly" girl liked Harry.

But still Ginny would know that Saying that Harry's eyes are like a frekled toad (Or whatever) would not be complimentary. She is not that stupid. Ron wouldn't be that mean. Why would Ron help Ginny write mean words like that. He loves his sister and after reading the OotP I think that Ron wouldn't mind his sister and Harry hooking up. Besides Ron wouldn't want to make Harry feel more stress and annoyence than he already had with everybody believing that he was the heir to Slytherin.

I really believe that Draco was angry enough to send a Valentines. Like stated above, Draco was mad at Ginny for Standing up to him at Flurish and Blotts. And it was even Draco who suggested that Harry and Ginny were boyfriend and girlfriend. Its a great way to mock Harry openly and to make Ginny feel embarassed and stupid. If Draco knew that Ginny liked Harry (I'm assuming that he did) Sending that Valentine like it was her's makes Harry embarrased and not like Ginny. Then Draco can mock Harry openly, Blame it on Ginny, and then make sure that Harry and Ginny don't get together.

Well she was possesed by voldemort

Well she was possesed by voldemort

True, but um...why in the world would Voldermort want to embarrass Harry. What would be the purpose? Voldermort would rather kill Harry, not make him embarrased for a few days. It just doesn't make sense. And besides, she wasen't possesed by Voldermort all day. Just when he wanted her do to things.

But still Ginny would know that Saying that Harry's eyes are like a frekled toad (Or whatever) would not be complimentary. She is not that stupid. Ron wouldn't be that mean. Why would Ron help Ginny write mean words like that. He loves his sister and after reading the OotP I think that Ron wouldn't mind his sister and Harry hooking up. Besides Ron wouldn't want to make Harry feel more stress and annoyence than he already had with everybody believing that he was the heir to Slytherin.

I really believe that Draco was angry enough to send a Valentines. Like stated above, Draco was mad at Ginny for Standing up to him at Flurish and Blotts. And it was even Draco who suggested that Harry and Ginny were boyfriend and girlfriend. Its a great way to mock Harry openly and to make Ginny feel embarassed and stupid. If Draco knew that Ginny liked Harry (I'm assuming that he did) Sending that Valentine like it was her's makes Harry embarrased and not like Ginny. Then Draco can mock Harry openly, Blame it on Ginny, and then make sure that Harry and Ginny don't get together.

Remember 2 things: 1. Ginny has never been to school before this year and she isn't a very worldly young 11 year old in so far as complimenting boys. She has all brothers and compliments don't seem to fly around the Weasley house much.
2. To a young witch frogs aren't the horrible creature muggles see them as. That is why they eat chocolate frogs and we don't. Particularly frogs are appealing to Ron who has also shown that the only boy he approves of for his sister is Harry.

As far as Malfoy goes, it would be out of character for him to use a valentine to embarass someone and he would have no way to know or care if the "Weasly" girl liked Harry.

Actually, Draco did tease Ginny and Harry in Flourish and Blotts before school started, calling Ginny Harry's girlfriend. So he DID suspect that Ginny liked Harry. And I don't think its out of his character. He'd use any opportunity to tease Harry or the Weasleys

Remember 2 things: 1. Ginny has never been to school before this year and she isn't a very worldly young 11 year old in so far as complimenting boys. She has all brothers and compliments don't seem to fly around the Weasley house much.
2. To a young witch frogs aren't the horrible creature muggles see them as. That is why they eat chocolate frogs and we don't. Particularly frogs are appealing to Ron who has also shown that the only boy he approves of for his sister is Harry.

For 1: I think that just because compliments don't fly around the Weasley house doesn't mean that Ginny doesn't know what compliments are. I'm sure she reads books and what not. So to say that she doesn't know what compliments are makes Ginny extremely ignorant or innocent. Which ever you perfer.

2. Although frogs are accepted in the wizarding community and not seen as horrible creatues as muggles, I still don't think that being called a frog would be a compliment. While a few frogs are beautifully colored, I feel that not all frogs are, and most are ugly. I doubt that it would be used as a compliment. A rose it beautiful to look upon, and would make sense to use as a compliment, or the beauitful ocean. But a frog is not always beautiful and despite cross cultures, I doubt that in the Wizarding world being compared to a Frog is a compliment.

I really doubt it. It's likely that Fred and George sent it.

For 1: I think that just because compliments don't fly around the Weasley house doesn't mean that Ginny doesn't know what compliments are. I'm sure she reads books and what not. So to say that she doesn't know what compliments are makes Ginny extremely ignorant or innocent. Which ever you perfer.

2. Although frogs are accepted in the wizarding community and not seen as horrible creatues as muggles, I still don't think that being called a frog would be a compliment. While a few frogs are beautifully colored, I feel that not all frogs are, and most are ugly. I doubt that it would be used as a compliment. A rose it beautiful to look upon, and would make sense to use as a compliment, or the beauitful ocean. But a frog is not always beautiful and despite cross cultures, I doubt that in the Wizarding world being compared to a Frog is a compliment.

She compared his eyes to a fresh pickled toad...and I think even in the wizarding world no TOADS are beautiful (frogs can be, however). An 11 year old girl could think of a lot of things to say besides that.

Also, the there's something else to consider and that is who uses the words Dark Lord to describe Voldemort. It's not the wizard and witches fighting against him, they all refer to him as either "He Who Shall Not Be Named" or LV, or Voldemort.

I agree with hotharry and I said it before it's not a girl thing to do even at 11 years old, having 6 brothers doesn't mean your automatically un-girl-like.

I think that it was Ginny who sent the Valentine, considering the fact that she was under the influence of Tom Riddle at the time was probably the reason for using such a phrase as "Dark Lord". I think Tom Riddle used the fact that Ginny was attracted to Harry to help make his presence noticed( it may not have work the way he wanted, but I bet that Draco had some sort of hint towards it).

Well she was possesed by voldemort

No. Regardless of who you think sent the Valentine it is undeniable that during the Valentines period Ginny was not possessed by Voldemort. Why? Harry had the diary. Ginny had overcome her possession and thrown it at Moaning Myrtle's nose then later recovered it when she feared Riddle influencing Harry. If Ginny wrote it it was written in Voldemort free time.

No. Regardless of who you think sent the Valentine it is undeniable that during the Valentines period Ginny was not possessed by Voldemort. Why? Harry had the diary. Ginny had overcome her possession and thrown it at Moaning Myrtle's nose then later recovered it when she feared Riddle influencing Harry. If Ginny wrote it it was written in Voldemort free time.

Isn't it possible that Ginny wrote the Valentine while under the infulence of Voldemort but didn't remeber exactly what she wrote then later decided to give the Valentine to Harry anyway?

Isn't it possible that Ginny wrote the Valentine while under the infulence of Voldemort but didn't remeber exactly what she wrote then later decided to give the Valentine to Harry anyway?

Given the fact that she was *very* distrustful of Riddle at this time, if she couldn't remember what she wrote, I do believe she wouldn't have sent it, or she would have at least checked what was written. She was too worried not to.

Given the fact that she was *very* distrustful of Riddle at this time, if she couldn't remember what she wrote, I do believe she wouldn't have sent it, or she would have at least checked what was written. She was too worried not to.

Possible too. How ever what would have happened if Riddle had the ability to change her memory of what she wrote? He had the power to control the rest of her, why not her mind/memory?

Possible too. How ever what would have happened if Riddle had the ability to change her memory of what she wrote? He had the power to control the rest of her, why not her mind/memory?

At this point, I'd say you are probably going a bit too far with this Valentine? What does Riddle gain by doing this. It is irrational behavior for Riddle to do this. Also, the episodes of mind control over Ginny's actions have been presented as possesion black outs happening at the time of action so she would have forgotten writing the Valentine if Riddle possessed her to write it, not just what it said, and would not have given it to Gilderoy.

Well she was possesed by voldemort
Actually at the time the Valentine was sent, I believe Harry had possession of the diary so it's not possible for Ginny to have been possessed when she sent it.

She compared his eyes to a fresh pickled toad...and I think even in the wizarding world no TOADS are beautiful (frogs can be, however). An 11 year old girl could think of a lot of things to say besides that.
Oh I don't know, I thought her poem was quite sweet. It demonstrated innocence and honesty and there's nothing wrong with that. :D Perhaps pickled toads are some sort of culinary delicacy in the magical world? There's got to be some reason why used that particular metaphor.

Besides, she didn't say his face resembled a fresh-pickled toad, which I would interpret as insulting. She made an analogy between the colour, not the phyiscal appearance.

Oh I don't know, I thought her poem was quite sweet. It demonstrated innocence and honesty and there's nothing wrong with that. :D Perhaps pickled toads are some sort of culinary delicacy in the magical world? There's got to be some reason why used that particular metaphor.

Besides, she didn't say his face resembled a fresh-pickled toad, which I would interpret as insulting. She made an analogy between the colour, not the phyiscal appearance.

My point was that if she wrote it (and I still think it was Malfoy) that she didn't compare his eyes to a frog, which is what a few people were saying, she was comparing his eyes to a fresh pickled toad.

Malfoy had every reason to want to embarrass both Ginny and Harry so I think he took the opportunity to it. I don't think the poem sounds like Ginny.

I don't think Malfoy would send Harry a valentine, even one that embarassed him, in a pink fit.

I think he would if he could make it seem like it was from Harry. Malfoy teased Harry at Flourish and Blotts about his 'girlfriend'. Malfoy is petty and immature 12 year old in at that point, it just seems like something he would do.

He was there to witness the whole event, so he got to see the effects on both their faces.

I don't think Malfoy sent the Valentine, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who could write a decent poem. ;)

I bet Ginny did send it on a bit of a whim, anticipating that it would be annoyomous so that she could at least get her feelings out there. Course it does seem a bit sarcastic at the end so who knows, maybe Malfoy did do it.

We could always get some Veristum (I can't spell it sorry :blush: ) and find out. :eyebrows:

OHOHOH! What if Myrtle wrote it! It is so something she would say! And she was smitten with Harry

OHOHOH! What if Myrtle wrote it! It is so something she would say! And she was smitten with Harry
How would she write it, she can't pick up a pen and she didn't talk to anyone apart from Harry, Hermione and Ron. Well she doen't even talk to them, just moans when they're in her bathroom.

Besides, she didn't say his face resembled a fresh-pickled toad, which I would interpret as insulting. She made an analogy between the colour, not the phyiscal appearance.

True but there are better more romantic things to compare green eyes, like the ocean and green grass, anything that is more romantic than a frog. See she is 11 and I doubt that she would think that a frog is romantic.

So let me set everyone straight.

1. Riddle didn't send the Valentine. Ginny was not possesed during the time because Harry had the diary. And as for writing earilier, what would Riddle gaint from embarrasing Harry?

2. Ginny would have made up a more romantic poem about butterflies, flowers, and the ocean, not about Dark Lords, frogs, and other silly things. Ginny is young, but she is not stupid, she knows insults and knows compliments. She wouldn't even remotely put anything down that would be close to insulting Harry. Also she is too shy with Harry to do something so drastic. She can hardly talk to him without turning red. Where in the world did she get the guts to write a Valentine to him.

3. Fred and George know that Ginny like Harry. They, I'm sure, tease her about it. But if they wrote the Valentine they would have at least been presant to hear the Valentine read. They wouldn't miss out on something like that. Besides, they would have written a more hilarious poem. We would have been rolling on the floor with laughter if they wrote the poem.

4. Ron didn't write, nor did he help Ginny write it. It would not have encouraged her to write something so hurtful and annoying. Second of all he would not want to make his best frined mad. He didn't do it. No way!

5. Draco had to have done it. He was mad at Harry and Ginny. He probably thought that Harry had opened the Chamber of Secrets. He also put hurtful things in the poem that not only made Harry mad and embarrased, but that made him worry about being evil. Draco was presant for the reading and too delight on laughing in Harry's face for it. It had to be Draco. Nothing else makes complete sense.

"Fresh-pickled toad" is completely Forge verbiage. :p

1. Riddle didn't send the Valentine. Ginny was not possesed during the time because Harry had the diary. And as for writing earilier, what would Riddle gain from embarrasing Harry?
I agree - Harry doesn't even become his target until Harry starts writing in the diary (AFTER he receives the Valentine).
Ginny would have made up a more romantic poem about butterflies, flowers, and the ocean, not about Dark Lords, frogs, and other silly things. Ginny is young, but she is not stupid, she knows insults and knows compliments. She wouldn't even remotely put anything down that would be close to insulting Harry. Also she is too shy with Harry to do something so drastic. She can hardly talk to him without turning red. Where in the world did she get the guts to write a Valentine to him.
I don't believe that Ginny would have sent an overly girly poem - there's no evidence that she's like this (compared to Lavender who is clearly a girly girl), in fact the evidence is in the reversed, by her willingness to get dirty (quite literally with Quidditch practice in OotP). Despite the fact that she's having a pretty bad time of it with the diary and everything, we know from later books that she's not a coward. I take the point about turning red everytime she talks to Harry, but wouldn't that make a valentine the perfect way of talking to him without having to speak to him?
3. Fred and George know that Ginny like Harry. They, I'm sure, tease her about it. But if they wrote the Valentine they would have at least been presant to hear the Valentine read. They wouldn't miss out on something like that. Besides, they would have written a more hilarious poem. We would have been rolling on the floor with laughter if they wrote the poem.
If it wasn't Ginny, I don't think it can have been Fred or George, the reference to the 'Dark Lord' in the poem precludes it. Also, Fred and George might tease, but they aren't cruel (at least to their friends and family) and if it wasn't sent by Ginny, to make it look as though it was sent by her would be pretty cruel.
4. Ron didn't write, nor did he help Ginny write it. It would not have encouraged her to write something so hurtful and annoying. Second of all he would not want to make his best frined mad. He didn't do it. No way!
Never crossed my mind that Ron wrote the valentine. Harry's his best mate and Ginny's his sister. Plus, the valentines were Lockhart's thing and I can't see Ron wanting to participate in something Lockhart started.
5. Draco had to have done it. He was mad at Harry and Ginny. He probably thought that Harry had opened the Chamber of Secrets. He also put hurtful things in the poem that not only made Harry mad and embarrased, but that made him worry about being evil. Draco was presant for the reading and too delight on laughing in Harry's face for it. It had to be Draco. Nothing else makes complete sense.
I agree, if it wasn't written by Ginny, it was Draco. Embarassing Ginny and Harry would kill two birds with one stone. Ginny to get back at her for shouting at him in Flourish & Blotts, and Harry because he hates him. The reference to the Dark Lord implies that the valentine was written by someone who had been in close contact with Lord Voldemort or a Death Eater (in OotP Harry asks Snape why he refers to Voldemort as the Dark Lord when he's only ever heard the Death Eaters refer to him in that way.

I think Ginny did send the Valentine to Harry but I think that Tom made her send it. Since Tom made her send it and he had control over her at the time, he is the one who made her use the word choice of the Dark Lord. Even though Tom probably made her send it and influenced the word choice, I think that if Ginny hadn't been under Tom's control at the time she would have still sent Harry a Valentine because of how much she fancied him.

Speaking of toads...

There always seems to be a negative connotation associated with toads.

Hagrid advises Harry against buying one in SS because he says that they are out of fashion. And JKR goes to great lengths to get us to appreciate the toadiness of Umbridge's appearance.

It doesn't seem like Ginny, who was so obviously bananas about Harry, would use a toad to describe anything about him.

Therefore, I am sticking to my Forge theory.

I don't think it really means to much but saying that we never know with Jo do we, something thats not thought of that the time could mean something else, I mean Harry didn't at that time even know that was what the deatheaters called him or what a deatheater was even. When in gof Bill and Charlie are disscussing the appearance of the dark mark and what its signance is, one of them ( I can't remember who) had to explain to Harry what a deatheater was after Harry looked at them puzzled. so it could have been a clue to the future books at the time. Cos is an important book and will probably not know why until book six comes out how important it really is.

Great arguments. Don't forget that JKR described Umbridge as toad-like. And we know that she said, through Harry's eyes, because Harry didn't like her. What do you think of that?

Therefore, I am sticking to my Forge theory.
How do you explain the reference to the 'Dark Lord' in the valentine? If Harry says he's only heard Death Eaters call Voldemort the Dark Lord, how would Fred and George know (not being too big on Death Eaters) and why would they use a term with such connotations?

I agree that Ginny wrote the Valentine to Harry, though you have good reason to be suspicious of the mention of 'The Dark Lord'. Maybe Ginny was just trying to make it sound more interesting so he'd like it more? I dunno...

No offense meant but, what does whether or not ginny gave harry the valentine have to do with anything major in COS? (shipping rants aside, please) It seems rather irrelevant but perhaps I missed something.

2. Ginny would have made up a more romantic poem about butterflies, flowers, and the ocean, not about Dark Lords, frogs, and other silly things. Ginny is young, but she is not stupid, she knows insults and knows compliments. She wouldn't even remotely put anything down that would be close to insulting Harry. Also she is too shy with Harry to do something so drastic. She can hardly talk to him without turning red. Where in the world did she get the guts to write a Valentine to him.
Ginny has six brothers! She's hardly your typical girl; she keeps up with the boys at the best of times, so I doubt she's about to start writing poems about butterflies or the ocean.

I still maintain the "fresh pickled toad" comment wasn't insulting. She obviously meant it to be flattering, but it came off as awkward and immature, which are two words which more or less summarise Ginny's emotions as an 11-year-old.

No offense meant but, what does whether or not ginny gave harry the valentine have to do with anything major in COS? (shipping rants aside, please) It seems rather irrelevant but perhaps I missed something.

I think we'll find many seemingly meaningless details will come to light as the books go on. I think it's much better to put all questions and theories on the table now, rather than saying "I knew it!" after the fact. Then no one will believe you!

No offense meant but, what does whether or not ginny gave harry the valentine have to do with anything major in COS? (shipping rants aside, please) It seems rather irrelevant but perhaps I missed something.


why does the discussion need to directly affect the outcome of the book? one of the things i love about cos forums is that i cant discuss anything harry potter related with the people that know and love it as much as i do...besides..to me nothing written in the books are minor....but im also a glass is half full kinda gal:)

Hmm....I find it rather unlikely really. Besides, when Ginny was said to be the one who sent the Valentine letter, she like ran inside the classroom. However, it was Malfoy who said that. Maybe um...Malfoy sent it just to like make fun of Harry?? And so he pointed at Ginny to have somebody who ppl would believe was the one who sent the letter. But I don't think it's too likely to have happened. ->DuNnO<- :huh:

why does the discussion need to directly affect the outcome of the book? one of the things i love about cos forums is that i cant discuss anything harry potter related with the people that know and love it as much as i do...besides..to me nothing written in the books are minor....but im also a glass is half full kinda gal:)

It doesn't have to directly affect the outcome to be discussed, it's just that it seemed like such a minor detail to me. I thought that perhaps people were reading further into it than I was, so I asked. I'm a glass-is-half-full kinda girl, too, by the way. woot. :)

In Chamber of Secrets, when Ginny sent Harry the Valentine, the poem went like this:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord
(US Paperback page 238 Ch. 13)

This being said, focus on "Dark Lord"... Harry tells us in OoP that "only Death Eaters refer to [Lord Voldemort] as the Dark Lord." (Will get page if needed.)

With this in mind: Was Ginny the sender of the Valentine, or did another person do it?

I thought it was Ginny maybe that was the best why to make it rythmic instead of say he-who-must-not-be-named...that would be a little hard to put in a poem/short song
But really good point you got me wondering

Also maybe the troll (or what ever it was) made it up... you know she tells it who and it fashions up a poem...kinda far fetched..i know.. but just a thought

In Chamber of Secrets, when Ginny sent Harry the Valentine, the poem went like this:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord
(US Paperback page 238 Ch. 13)

This being said, focus on "Dark Lord"... Harry tells us in OoP that "only Death Eaters refer to [Lord Voldemort] as the Dark Lord." (Will get page if needed.)

With this in mind: Was Ginny the sender of the Valentine, or did another person do it? This sound like something a Ravenclaw girl might write as it is silly, crazy rhyme. The one girl that comes to mind would be Luna Lovegood as she was fascinated with Harry when they first met in OotP. Luna would have heard Ginny go on about Harry all the time and they may have even passed in the corridor. So even though Luna's name was not mentioned in GoF, she still could have sent the love letter to Harry.

Ginny has six brothers! She's hardly your typical girl; she keeps up with the boys at the best of times, so I doubt she's about to start writing poems about butterflies or the ocean.

I still maintain the "fresh pickled toad" comment wasn't insulting. She obviously meant it to be flattering, but it came off as awkward and immature, which are two words which more or less summarise Ginny's emotions as an 11-year-old.

True, She is not girly enough to use those descrptions. But my point was that there are more complimentary things to compare his eyes with. Other things that are tom-boyish but are not insulting. I also doubt that she would compare Harry's eyes to a frog. Like many have said before even in the wizarding world frogs are not highly liked. True they do have chocolate frogs and what not. But Hagrid does advise Harry not to buy a frog, cause they are out style (And out of favor in the wizarding world). And then Prof. Umbridge is compared to a frog, in a non-complimentrary way. And I will add one more to the list. Neville (Although I love him dearly) is the most clumsy and not very good wizard and he owns a frog that jumps away. So frogs are associated with people who are clumsy (And believe me I love Neville) and well Geeky. So Frogs are not even excatly complimentrary.

True she does have six brothers. But she still has her mother too. I actually have a friend who has three brothers, she too is the youngest in the family and is by far more girly than I am. I have three brothers too, and two sisters and yet, I'm the tom-boy that she should be. So being with boys doesn't make you girly or tom-boyish. It just depends on the person and what they choose to be. I am very tom-boyish and grew up with my sisters. (Brothers were married and gone). My friend grew up with boys and is very girly. You cannot say that Ginny has to be more tom-boyish. Cause it may not be true. (Actually I think that she is a mix of the two and is really more tom-boyish than girlsh, but we don't know much about her enough to make a solid point)

Ginny, Most definately did not send that Valentine. Neither did Ron, Fred and George (Although they are more believable to send it than Ginny), Riddle, or Lockhart. Draco although proves to be a very good thought.

In reference to stated above. It matters greatly to me whether Ginny sent it or not. I feel that it is out of character for her. And if she is out of character we can assume that this will cause her to act differently in the book to come. (Actually I really can't find that it is important to the plot, other than I just wanna know.):D

Since I started this thread, I'd ought to give my opinion on what happened.

At the beginning of CoS we meet a quiet Ginny who wouldn't mutter a single word to Harry, or even around him, we see. All of a sudden, Horrible!Malfoy comes and makes a snide comment. There goes Ginny, "Leave him alone! He didn't want all that!" and a girlfriend comment (to which Ginny blushed, remember?)

Malfoy was mad at Harry already for not being expelled, and then of course, beating him at Quidditch, so he's pretty mad, now isn't he?

What could he possibly do that wouldn't get him into trouble? Well, he thought back on Potter and remembered the littlest Weasley, so decided to make a Valentine and send it to Harry to embarrass both of them and to make sure that Harry gets a little weirded out and perhaps thinks lowly of Ginny.

In the Valentine scene, Harry has the diary, and Ginny sees it, awarding a strong reaction and her to run away. It was Malfoy's comment that drove her away - and perhaps it was because Ginny didn't want Harry's attention? She wanted to take the diary unnoticed by everyone.

All-and-all, I think that Malfoy had more than enough motive, and he was cunning enough to do that thing. Plus he was brought up calling LV the Dark Lord because of his father.

Why not Ginny? For one thing, she's way too shy to write that. She wouldn't mutter a word to him in person, so it'd be odd if she sent him a singing valentine. As we see the latter books, Ginny calls LV, "You-Know-Who" so why would she write it one way, but say it another way? Doesn't make much sense to me - why would she want to bring Harry's attention to her? Didn't look like she did when Harry saw her in CoS.

Why not Fred and George? I do not think Fred and George would make a card like that - though the first line is suspicious. Likewise, I apply the "Dark Lord" versus "You-Know-Who" to them, because they call him YOU-KNOW-WHO like the rest of their family. As it'd be fun to tease Harry about, I don't think they'd want to embarrass their little sister in front of the whole school, or Harry, whom we saw them go to deep measures to save over the summer, and whom is practically their brother and Quidditch-mate.

Conclusion: Draco Malfoy.

What do you all think?

True she does have six brothers. But she still has her mother too. I actually have a friend who has three brothers, she too is the youngest in the family and is by far more girly than I am. I have three brothers too, and two sisters and yet, I'm the tom-boy that she should be. So being with boys doesn't make you girly or tom-boyish. It just depends on the person and what they choose to be. I am very tom-boyish and grew up with my sisters. (Brothers were married and gone). My friend grew up with boys and is very girly. You cannot say that Ginny has to be more tom-boyish. Cause it may not be true. (Actually I think that she is a mix of the two and is really more tom-boyish than girlsh, but we don't know much about her enough to make a solid point)
Yep, I had a friend who grew up with a sister whom was much older, and three brothers who were closer in age to her and she was much less of a tom boy than I was, while I grew up with a sister whom is only a year and a half younger than me and a brother whom is three years older than me.
Why not Ginny? For one thing, she's way too shy to write that. She wouldn't mutter a word to him in person, so it'd be odd if she sent him a singing valentine. As we see the latter books, Ginny calls LV, "You-Know-Who" so why would she write it one way, but say it another way? Doesn't make much sense to me - why would she want to bring Harry's attention to her? Didn't look like she did when Harry saw her in CoS.
That's a very good point, I had never thought of that, before I had just assumed that Ginny had sent the Valentine, but now after reading some of this thread I don't think that I do.
Conclusion: Draco Malfoy.
That would make sense, he would know that it would embarrass Harry, and the words fit. I like that idea. :agree:

Initially, I had thought that Ginny sent the Valentine. However with the scene in OotP when Harry challenges Snape calling Voldemort the Dark Lord, I did start thinking back to the wording of the Valentine.

Why not Ginny? For one thing, she's way too shy to write that. She wouldn't mutter a word to him in person, so it'd be odd if she sent him a singing valentine. As we see the latter books, Ginny calls LV, "You-Know-Who" so why would she write it one way, but say it another way? Doesn't make much sense to me - why would she want to bring Harry's attention to her? Didn't look like she did when Harry saw her in CoS.
Traditionally, Valentine's cards are meant to be anonymous, so for me this doesn't necessarily work as an argument against Ginny sending it. Nor does it necessarily follow that if she had sent the Valentine to Harry she would have been able for it to be delivered when she wasn't there. Although Ginny doesn't have the diary at the time the Valentine is sent to Harry, she had been talking to Riddle through it since the beginning of the school year, so may well know of Voldemort being called the Dark Lord (a name, ordinarily only Death Eaters call him) and used the name subconsciously for rhyming purpose.

[b]Why not Fred and George? I do not think Fred and George would make a card like that - though the first line is suspicious. Likewise, I apply the "Dark Lord" versus "You-Know-Who" to them, because they call him YOU-KNOW-WHO like the rest of their family. As it'd be fun to tease Harry about, I don't think they'd want to embarrass their little sister in front of the whole school, or Harry, whom we saw them go to deep measures to save over the summer, and whom is practically their brother and Quidditch-mate.
I agree, the Dark Lord reference precludes Fred and George from having sent the Valentine. Ginny may know about the name through the diary but Fred and George would not. Also, as I've stated in earlier posts to this thread, sending the Valentine supposedly from Ginny, wouldn't have been teasing, it would have been cruel, especially as we already know that Ginny's having a hard time of it, having been so upset by all the attacks.

[b]Conclusion: Draco Malfoy.

What do you all think?
I agree. [B]If it wasn't Ginny, then, yes, IMO the natural conclusion to draw is that Malfoy would have sent it. He loathes Harry, may want to pay Ginny back for the Flourish & Blotts incident and, as the son of a death eater is likely to refer to Voldemort as the Dark Lord.
However, I still think that there's a chance that Ginny did send the Valentine.

I agree. If it wasn't Ginny, then, yes, IMO the natural conclusion to draw is that Malfoy would have sent it. He loathes Harry, may want to pay Ginny back for the Flourish & Blotts incident and, as the son of a death eater is likely to refer to Voldemort as the Dark Lord.
However, I still think that there's a chance that Ginny did send the Valentine.

lol! :rotfl: I love how you come to the conclusion that Draco sent it and yet you still believe that Ginny might have done it. Just a question, but I would like to know why you think that Ginny would have done it. What evidence do you have that supports your thoughts?

I still think that it wasn't Ginny.

Draco I think it the most logical choice but not the obvious one which is Ginny. JKR, is so very good about making the conclusion of certain events be not the obvious choice.

Draco had very good reasons for embarrassing both Harry and Ginny. He hates Harry and takes every chance he can get to try and embarrass him, why else would he be there for the reading of the valentine unless he knew it was coming and wanted to see it's effects on the two people he wanted to embarass. It makes prefect sense to me.

Most of all, it doesn't sounds like Ginny to me. I don't think she's ever used the term 'Dark Lord' to describe Voldemort, that terms is used by the DE's. Malfoy therefore, knew that the DE's called him that.

as fond as i am of the ninny theory (neville and ginny) i think it was ginny. a major point to support this is that when harry was in the hospital in PoA, ginny sent him a card the sang. My other theory is it was a carachter who was never introduced but that seems hightly unlikely. I also find it doubtful it was gred and forge (it's just more fun to call them that) because they rarely cause people they like extreme embarassment

This sound like something a Ravenclaw girl might write as it is silly, crazy rhyme. The one girl that comes to mind would be Luna Lovegood as she was fascinated with Harry when they first met in OotP. Luna would have heard Ginny go on about Harry all the time and they may have even passed in the corridor. So even though Luna's name was not mentioned in GoF, she still could have sent the love letter to Harry.
JKR made Luna up in the fifth book. She could've sent the letter, but I think if Luna were really that big of a character, she probably would've been introduced early in the series. Also, I don't think Luna would write that kind of a poem.. it does sound whimsical like Luna, but I think Luna will probably connect with Harry through relating to a parent's death. Harry has had enough fangirling, and Luna probably knows that.

Most of all, it doesn't sounds like Ginny to me. I don't think she's ever used the term 'Dark Lord' to describe Voldemort, that terms is used by the DE's. Malfoy therefore, knew that the DE's called him that.

Ginny was possessed after all.

I think Ginny did it

I don't think Ginny sent the Valentine. I think it was Draco who did and just pinned Ginny. Wasn't Draco the one who wrote Weasley Is Our King. Also, with the diary going on, Ginny would do anything NOT to bring attention to her. But IF it was her, I bet it would make a good laugh when/if she and Harry ends up together...it's something that they can laugh about.

My feeling is that Ginny sent the valentine, but JKR took for granted that we would assume that. If Draco or anyone else had sent it, why keep it a secret? It happened three or four years ago, if someone other than Ginny sent it, what's the motive of keeping it from Harry? I mean, Draco could have done it, but I would think he would have told Harry about it to irratate him even more. Likewise, with the Weasley twins, but they rarely play jokes on Harry, but again, I think that they would have told him just to show that they were just kidding. I am beginning to think that the simplist answer is true. Ginny did it, because she has the greatest reason to keep it to herself.

My feeling is that Ginny sent the valentine, but JKR took for granted that we would assume that. If Draco or anyone else had sent it, why keep it a secret? It happened three or four years ago, if someone other than Ginny sent it, what's the motive of keeping it from Harry? I mean, Draco could have done it, but I would think he would have told Harry about it to irratate him even more. Likewise, with the Weasley twins, but they rarely play jokes on Harry, but again, I think that they would have told him just to show that they were just kidding. I am beginning to think that the simplist answer is true. Ginny did it, because she has the greatest reason to keep it to herself.

Why did Draco keep a secret. Well that one seemed obvious to me. He get's to have the knowledge that he totally embarrased both Harry and Ginny infront of the whole school. Why tell when it worked out perfectly and gave him a chance to insult both. If he had told that he sent the Valentine kids at the school would have looked at Draco differently. They might have thought that he likes Potter. And that is not widely accepted, especially to a son of a mother and father. He obviously like girls, so he wouldn't want to associate himself with beening gay.

Ginny wouldn't have the guts to send something like that. If she can't talk to him, be in the same room with him without blushing or running away quickly, how in the world would she have enought guts to send him a Valentine. Also if she did, I doubt that she would use those words, or even be there when he got the valentine. It's a little to obvious to be Ginny. I think that it was Draco. It's the only believable answer.

to my comment about Myrtle writing it, she doesn't need to write it, just tell the dwarf or someone what the message is.

From what i have read adn from the book i dont belive ginny to write the tcard to harry she coulnt even speak to him ... i know i couldnt write a ltter to someone i have a serious crush on... but in the case who did it ... i always thought it was fred and george until i read what maraudergirl had wriiten abouve now that i truly think of it i do belive its malfoy

to my comment about Myrtle writing it, she doesn't need to write it, just tell the dwarf or someone what the message is.

I'm sure that Lockhart would have cooperated on that one. Anything to embarrass poor harry.

she started blushing a lot didn't she?? I assumed that that meant she was embarrassed because he found out (or at least figured it out)..... I guess she could've starting blushing beause she was embarrassed because some other girl was interested in him....hmmmmmm....

Well, I also thought it funny that Fred and George knew the lyrics so well when they weren't even around to hear it. My first thought was that they wrote it, although we know from the "Weasley is Our King" episode that Malfoy has a knack for writing catchy lyrics...

The Death Eaters(and Snape) aren't the only ones who call Voldemort "The Dark Lord". The label on the prophecy reads "Dark Lord and (?)Harry Potter", and the prophecy itself refers to Voldemort as "the Dark Lord."

The Death Eaters(and Snape) aren't the only ones who call Voldemort "The Dark Lord". The label on the prophecy reads "Dark Lord and (?)Harry Potter", and the prophecy itself refers to Voldemort as "the Dark Lord."

Whoa Confused here. I agree I think....Ginny wouldn't have said "The Dark Lord" She probably didn't even know that was what the DE called Voldermort. So my guess is that it had to be Malfoy because I bet his father talked about "The Dark Lord". Fred and George might have used the Words "the Dark Lord" But I really doubt it. Like stated above by someone else, Malfoy seems to be good at phrases and rhyming. Besides Ginny wouldn't compare Harry's eyes to a toad.

Whoa Confused here. I agree I think....Ginny wouldn't have said "The Dark Lord" She probably didn't even know that was what the DE called Voldermort. So my guess is that it had to be Malfoy because I bet his father talked about "The Dark Lord". Fred and George might have used the Words "the Dark Lord" But I really doubt it. Like stated above by someone else, Malfoy seems to be good at phrases and rhyming. Besides Ginny wouldn't compare Harry's eyes to a toad.
Well Ginny might have known about Voldemort being called the Dark Lord, after all she had been writing to his teenage self in a diary for months.

'The Dark Lord' reference does seem to rule out Fred and George though.

My point was that we know of some other sources that call Voldemort the Dark Lord, so it may have been another name that was known, if rarely used by non-Death Eaters. The writer of the poem probably just used it for the rhyme.

Well Ginny might have known about Voldemort being called the Dark Lord, after all she had been writing to his teenage self in a diary for months.

'The Dark Lord' reference does seem to rule out Fred and George though.


Yeah, but if Ginny knew that it was the Dark Lord, then why in the heck would she have kept writing to him. She didn't know what was going on. I don't think that she even knew that Riddle was Voldermort and if Riddle even slipped that he was, Ginny would have destroyed the diary completely. She knew that it was not good and that it had evil power, but I doubt that she knew it was Voldermort.

True it does rule out Fred and George, but it looks better that Malfoy did it. He's heard his dad say "The Dark Lord". And I really doubt that Ginny would have called Harry that anyways. What would be her point in making Harry feel embarrased or worried that he might be connected to the Heir of Slytherin. It just doesn't make sense.

Draco makes plenty of sense. And as for Ginny blushing, I think that it is because she saw Harry looking at her and maybe she thought that he assumed she had sent it.

yes she did sent the valentine whenever she was conscious of what she was doing. i don't think the disciples of the dark lord would send such a cute valentine

I don't think Ginny really knew much about who she was writing to. I think she was just happy to have a place to talk about Harry.

As for the Valentine, I think she did send it. She's a brave little Gryffindor and think she would have done it. Even though it could have been any girl, it just seems to make more sense that it came from Ginny, plot-wise.

Hmmm i like this theory. I had always assumed it was Ginny who wrote the valenitne but after reading this thread (i read the WHOLE thing.:p )i no longer think she sent it.

Ginny didnt send it because even if she were brave enough to send it she wouldnt have been present while he received it. consitering her shyness she wouldnt have been around to watch him listen to it. I too beleive the toad remark is too insulting to be written by Ginny. they way JKR always uses toads as a negative thing, we can only assume that this is the same case. Im sure im just repeating what others have said before but seeing as it wasnt Forge (because we all know they always like to be present to veiw their own handywork) i beleive it could be one of three people who sent the valentine.

Draco(most likely): I think he wanted revenge on Harry and Ginny for makin him look bad in Flourish and Blotts . So he wrote that poem (knowing about calling LV the "dark lord" and in OOTP we know of his rhyme making abilities) in order to embarrass them. I think Ginny blushed for one of two reasons: (1) she noticed he had the diary or (2) she thought Harry assumed she sent the valentine.

Mrytle: I dont know about you but i LIKE this idea!! it is possible. lots of people have debonked this theory for one reason: she cant write! but i ask you, why cant she?? yes, shes a ghost but that doesnt mean she cant hold solid things. Look how she can make water splash. if she can go into a toilet wouldnt she just go through the water without makeing contact? we know that she can make direct contact by hitting the water and making a huge splash. we know she can flood the halls by causing all the faucets(sp?) to turn on. she could have easliy written that poem. the rhyming scheme seems myrtle-ish and lets also remember that she could have had someone write it for her. i think we may learn later in book 6 and/or 7 that some ghost can touch/hold some solid objects.

Luna: i dont have many clues to back this up but i still like this theory. We dont know much about loony Luna. but Luna writing the valentine is plausable. she wasnt introduced til book 5 but whos to say she wasnt around in COS? Luna's a bit odd so she may have written that poem. i wouldnt be surprised if she mentions it in HBP. I think she would know about LV being "the dark lord". with her dad and that magazine he works for im sure she'd get info from there. i know this last one is a streach ( so is the Myrtle one but hey) but i still stand by them. :D one things is for sure thought, i dont think Ginny sent it.

In Chamber of Secrets, when Ginny sent Harry the Valentine, the poem went like this:

His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard
I wish he was mine, he's really divine
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord
(US Paperback page 238 Ch. 13)

This being said, focus on "Dark Lord"... Harry tells us in OoP that "only Death Eaters refer to [Lord Voldemort] as the Dark Lord." (Will get page if needed.)

With this in mind: Was Ginny the sender of the Valentine, or did another person do it?


Off course Ginny send it. It was a clue by JKR. You noticed quite well that Dark Lord is only used by death eaters. Had we known this then and there, we would already have been very suspicious why Ginny would use this phrase. I think it's brilliant writing by JKR, because she could easily have used something which rhymed with you-know-who, but she put in this little clue as to who was doing this... Nice.

GrintSistah, you're wrong. Ginny didn't volunteer to be present when Harry got the valentine. It just so happened to be that Harry was tackled right outside the classroom where Ginny had to be. She had no choice, it would have been very suspicious had she run away then. She was horrified anyway.
Draco also just happened to be there. He had no idea when that Harry would be cornered there and then by the dwarf. Bit of a feeble joke if you're not around to see it.

As for Ginny's shyness: THAT'S WHAT VALENTINE IS ALL ABOUT! You can send something anonymus, so nobody knows it's you. that's why it was perfect for a shy girl like Ginny. In fact, most valentines are send by shy little girls that are afraid to say it aloud, right? Those kind of girls practically invented the whole soggy stuff.

Good eye. Calling Mr. Riddle "The Dark Lord" is similar to calling Hitler "Führer." It would take more than naiveté. It's either the influence of a DE, written by a DE, or Ginny has a sick sense of humour that we've never seen.

I disagree. I think Ginny sent it. It's possible that someone else sent it, but why on earth would a Death Eater go to all the trouble of bypassing DD just to send Harry a Valentine's card??? What's the point? Maybe it was Fred and George, trying to embarrass their sister, maybe Dark Lord has some significance because Ginny was under Tom Riddle's influence at the time.

I don't think Giny sent it. At that time, she would be too shy of Harry to do so. And even if she did work up the courage to send a valentine, I doubt she'd write anything as corny as "His eyes are green as a fresh pickled toad." I think Fred and George took advantage of their sisters crush to write and send Harry such an embarrassing valentine.

Inersesting but I really do think it was just Ginny. ;)

Not Ginny. It was a "set up", but I'm not convinced that the twins could be so cruel as to do such a thing.

I think it was probably Ginny, with perhaps a twist of Riddle. I think the fact that only Death Eaters call Voldemort the Dark Lord is pertinent (we get this in canon in OotP), and indicates that Riddle was corrupting Ginny to the point that it was effecting her daily life. Riddle involving himself, through Ginny, also explains the "sick sense of humor" mentioned above.

It could, have, of course been Fred and George. Fresh Pickled Toad is right up their alley, but somehow I don't see them embarrasing their sister like this. They seem to be more family driven than this, and really, the only Weasleys they've mightily embarrased are the two prefects, Ron and Percy. Ginny is more their type, so I wonder if they'd have been mean to her.

I think it was her. She was also responsible for the card that sang shrilly when Harry landed up in the hospital wing in his third year. He had to place something on it to keep it shut from what I remember. :)

I think Ginny probably sent it. Remember that Tom Riddle had some control over her at the time so he probably could have influenced her choice of words.


i agree...honestly like..that is exactly what i said in my head when i read the question..:)

I do not honestly believe that Ginny sent Harry the singing Valentine. My theory is (this may have been mentioned before, but I am not sure) that Draco Malfoy sent the Valentine and tried to frame it on Ginny. Remember, he said something along the lines of "I don't think Potter liked your Valentine" as she passed him when she was going into her classroom. But how could he have known for sure that it was from Ginny? Though the theory that Tom Riddle made her send it to him is a good one, and very possible.

Uh oh....great now I REALLY can't wait for HBP!I think Ginny might have sent it or maybe not....Oh ****!

I do not honestly believe that Ginny sent Harry the singing Valentine. My theory is (this may have been mentioned before, but I am not sure) that Draco Malfoy sent the Valentine and tried to frame it on Ginny. Remember, he said something along the lines of "I don't think Potter liked your Valentine" as she passed him when she was going into her classroom. But how could he have known for sure that it was from Ginny? Though the theory that Tom Riddle made her send it to him is a good one, and very possible.

It was Ginny, all the way.

Draco wouldn't do such a thing. It's not his style. It's not funny enough, or hurting enough. As for your 'argument' of how he could have known for sure..hellooo, he doesn't need to know for sure. He knew Ginny had some feelings because of the incident at Flourish and Blotts, 'you got yourself a girlfriend' and well, it's not that hard to guess what type of girl sends a singing valentine...

Which brings me back on another argument that has been used here: Ginny isn't the type to send a valentine.. Right. Valentine was invented by little girl that were to shy to tell somebody their feelings (I know, not really, ancient roman custom, but still) Ginny fits the type perfectly. Everybody knows that 11-12 year old girls are into this romantic b*ll. The more shy they are, the more likely they send cards 'n stuff. It's a rule.

The biggest argument is the use of the phrase 'Dark Lord', which is, indeed, only used by death eaters. But the right explanation has been given: it was a clue by JKR, because Tom Riddle was influencing Ginny, so it's not strange she used some of his vocabulary.

Finally, 'fresh pickled toad' has also been used to 'prove' it wasn't Ginny. Because it would be insulting... Come on people, this is not our world. First, look at all the stuff muggles use to compare parts of their loved ones. Some are really strange if you start to think about it, but they are all 'normal' things to us. Skin like a peach, eyes like steel-blue lakes, taht sort of stuff. Well, I know toads (live ones) are out of fashion at Hogwarts, so it's lame to have one. After Umbridge, being compared to a live toad isn't a good thing, BUT: A fresh pickled toad apparently is a normal ingredient for a witch or wizard. So we compare skin to fruit, a witch can compare eye-colour with a potion ingredient. I don't think that, in Harry's world, that is an insult, because a fresh pickled toad is 'normal' to them. So I don't think any insult was meant by the toad reference.

And that's the end of my rant

It couldn't have been Ginny

Draco wouldn't do such a thing. It's not his style. It's not funny enough, or hurting enough. As for your 'argument' of how he could have known for sure..hellooo, he doesn't need to know for sure. He knew Ginny had some feelings because of the incident at Flourish and Blotts, 'you got yourself a girlfriend' and well, it's not that hard to guess what type of girl sends a singing valentine...
Of course it was funny enough to him. He got to see Harry be totally embarrassed in front of the whole school and make him think that it was little Ginny, who wouldn't have done that. Besides if Ginny sent it she would have put her name on it if she is so brave as a griffindor to send it. Draco was angry because of what happened at Flourish and Blotts. He would know that if he wrote that everyone would think it was Ginny and know that she was too shy and embarrassed to tell them it wasn't her. It's most obviously Malfoy's work. He would get to embarass both of them and laugh about it behind their backs.

Which brings me back on another argument that has been used here: Ginny isn't the type to send a valentine.. Right. Valentine was invented by little girl that were to shy to tell somebody their feelings (I know, not really, ancient roman custom, but still) Ginny fits the type perfectly. Everybody knows that 11-12 year old girls are into this romantic b*ll. The more shy they are, the more likely they send cards 'n stuff. It's a rule
Uh...don't forget was assuming does. So far Ginny has yet do to anything else to prove that she is this kind of girl that would do something like that. And I disagree totally about 11-12 years girls sending things to boys. First of all you are boy so you have no legs to stand on. Secondly me and my friends at that age were not interested in boys that much. We could careless. The more you talk about this the more I think you are talking about girls who are about 14-15. Like Cho. She was doing those things in the last book. Making Harry go to places with her....etc.


The biggest argument is the use of the phrase 'Dark Lord', which is, indeed, only used by death eaters. But the right explanation has been given: it was a clue by JKR, because Tom Riddle was influencing Ginny, so it's not strange she used some of his vocabulary.

Ginny would never have used that vocabulary. Despite her being overtaken by Tom riddle I hardly doubt that she would even make reference to Voldermort at all, being very scared of him like Ron and everyone else. It would have to be Dracos doing since I'm sure he hears that kind of vocabulary everyday in his own home.


Finally, 'fresh pickled toad' has also been used to 'prove' it wasn't Ginny. Because it would be insulting... Come on people, this is not our world. First, look at all the stuff muggles use to compare parts of their loved ones. Some are really strange if you start to think about it, but they are all 'normal' things to us. Skin like a peach, eyes like steel-blue lakes, taht sort of stuff. Well, I know toads (live ones) are out of fashion at Hogwarts, so it's lame to have one. After Umbridge, being compared to a live toad isn't a good thing, BUT: A fresh pickled toad apparently is a normal ingredient for a witch or wizard. So we compare skin to fruit, a witch can compare eye-colour with a potion ingredient. I don't think that, in Harry's world, that is an insult, because a fresh pickled toad is 'normal' to them. So I don't think any insult was meant by the toad reference.

I would have to disagree. The toad is out of popularity in the Wizarding world. When Harry goes to get a pet, Hagrid tells him that. So even though it is a different culture, why compare him to something that is out of style. Besides if it wasen't an insult why did everyone laugh. What was so funny? It would be a normal thing. Draco wouldn't have found it funny at all. True it is embarrasing for the most part, but all the girls would giggle and think that it was sweet not laugh at him and make fun of him.

If you would please read the whole thread, like GrintSistah, before making a statement that would be nice. So that way I don't have to repeat myself. Alot of your points are answered before and well....look through and find them. There is no way that Ginny would have sent the Valentine. All actually evidence points to Draco. All other evidence is just heresay. ;)

Ginny did send the letter to him. I think she used Dark Lord was because it ryhmed, and saying he-who-must-not-be-named would not ryhme.

I don't believe that Ginny sent it necessarily... She could have, but she may have turned red just because Malfoy suggested that she did... For all we know, he could have sent it as a joke to embarass Harry.

Beautifully, put -hotharry! I think you summed up all the previous points and counterpoints on why the valentine did not come from Ginny but from Mr. Happy to Support the Dark Lord Draco Malfoy

Either Malfoy sent it or when Ginny sent it she was under the influence of Voldemort. The use of the word Dark Lord is very telling. Both are plausible in that Malfoy would use the term Dark Lord and he was the one to tease Harry about it. Tom Riddle was Ginny's confidante whom she told all her secrets and could have helped her with the poem. She said no one understood her like Tom. I think it's one or the other. Kinda weird to be thinking about Voldemort writing a love poem though. Ugh.

Either Malfoy sent it or when Ginny sent it she was under the influence of Voldemort



Good theory......Draco sent it. It's a thought indeed.

I just hope Ginny did not send it, I don't want her to end up with Harry, but of course, there will be romance in HBP, and if it's anyone, it should be Ginny, just so he can get that out of his system. :)

Either Malfoy sent it or when Ginny sent it she was under the influence of Voldemort. The use of the word Dark Lord is very telling. Both are plausible in that Malfoy would use the term Dark Lord and he was the one to tease Harry about it. Tom Riddle was Ginny's confidante whom she told all her secrets and could have helped her with the poem. She said no one understood her like Tom. I think it's one or the other. Kinda weird to be thinking about Voldemort writing a love poem though. Ugh.


However, we really don't have any evidence that Ginny (while under the influence of Tom Riddle) knew Voldemort and Tom Riddle were one in the same, we can only assume that...Tom however, choses to reveal this to little fact to Harry in the Chamber. We all know in hindsight that Riddle/Voldemort are the one in the same but we don't know for sure that was revealed to Ginny.

I still stand by my theory that Lockhart talked Ginny into sending Harry a Valentine after he found out that she likes him. And then he promised her that it would be a good valentine that would sweep him off his feet. She agreed and then Lockhart made up the song. And I think that either the Twins or Malfoy overheard and changed the poem.Great theory! It fits perfectly into Lockhart's personality. He was always doing things to "help" Harry, which actually were publicity stunts for himself (Lockhart). Perhaps Lockhart figured he could claim to have originally set Harry and Ginny up on their first date, thereby getting more front page story time for himself.

I don't know.... I think maybe Draco sent it, as a joke, and said it was from Ginny to embarrass her. I don't have my book with me, but didn't Ginny blush AFTER Draco said it was from her?

Ginny is soooo shy around Harry, and is too embarrassed to even be in the same room as him. I don't think she'd be so bold as to send him a valentine. Remember in the book shop at the beginning of CoS, when Ginny stands up for Harry, and Draco makes fun of it, saying "Potter, you got yourself a girlfriend!" That's where he got the idea, and decided to make further fun by sending him a fake valentine.

It would explain the use of Dark Lord rather than You-Know-Who as well.

that does seem to make sense. bc it is true that at the time she was not in posession of the journal,Harry was. and with her being so shy around harry, i highly doubt it could have been her. it does seem like something draco would do. unless it was snape. [laughs] but i really doubt that.

Of course it was funny enough to him. He got to see Harry be totally embarrassed in front of the whole school and make him think that it was little Ginny, who wouldn't have done that.

As I read it, Harry was embarassed, but then just laughed at it, with the rest, and wasn't really bothered by the poem, but much more by how Draco almost got a hold of the diary and then abuses Ginny. It's not that big a joke. Also, it's way to clever compared to anything else Draco has tried to do. He's not as cunning as his father you know.

Besides if Ginny sent it she would have put her name on it if she is so brave as a griffindor to send it.

That's utter rubish and you know it. The whole point of valentine is the fact that you can send something anonymus. I don't know how you celebrate it, but over here only couples put their name under a valantine. Being 'brave as gryffindor' is also a very bad assumption, because the traits mentioned aren't alway met, as we can see in Neville and Wormtail. The true bravery of a Gryffindor doesn't have to extend to the romantic field. Even Harry is not brave when it comes to asking a girl out, and he is one of the bravest boys we know of!

Draco was angry because of what happened at Flourish and Blotts. He would know that if he wrote that everyone would think it was Ginny and know that she was too shy and embarrassed to tell them it wasn't her. It's most obviously Malfoy's work. He would get to embarass both of them and laugh about it behind their backs.

Draco was angy for what happened at Flourish and Blotts? That was half a year earlier, I think he would want his revenge a bit sooner? Also, Malfoy doesn't want to laugh behind peoples back, he want's everybody to know what he did. That's his style. He has never, not once, done something that wasn't immediately retraceable to him. He is so unlike his father in that respect, that it's almost comical. Anyway, still not his style. And I don't think you can say something is 'obvious' because, well, you are also assuming a lot.

Uh...don't forget was assuming does.

Neither should you, but seeing that we don't have definate prove either way, we have to assume on some points.

So far Ginny has yet do to anything else to prove that she is this kind of girl that would do something like that.

You mean, beside the fact that she sends singing cards and takes two whole years before she can utter entire sentences to Harry? She was a very shy girl who uses postcard rather than talk herself. I assume.

And I disagree totally about 11-12 years girls sending things to boys. First of all you are boy so you have no legs to stand on.

That is perhaps the most idiotic thing I have ever heard on these forums. Because I'm a boy I don't have legs to stand on. Right. What if I told you I'm a teacher who works with 10 to 12 year olds and have received numerous card over the years? Do I still have no leg to stand on? Please refrain from these assumptions, they do not look nice.

Secondly me and my friends at that age were not interested in boys that much. We could careless.

Well, I admit there are girls that start to like boys at an early age, and some on a late age. But the fact remains, you never know when someones first puppy love comes to knock. And again, I have seen a lot of 11-12 year olds talking about (usually a bit older) boys. I don't know where you're from, but here, it's not that unusual.

The more you talk about this the more I think you are talking about girls who are about 14-15. Like Cho. She was doing those things in the last book. Making Harry go to places with her....etc.

That's advanced stuff. Cho takes the lead there. I'm talking about before girls start to ask boys. I don't know about where you live, but again, 11-12 year olds having a crush and being romantic about it isn't that strange. They are also helped by a pletora of magazines aiming for this group, and already talking about this.

Ginny would never have used that vocabulary. Despite her being overtaken by Tom riddle I hardly doubt that she would even make reference to Voldermort at all, being very scared of him like Ron and everyone else. It would have to be Dracos doing since I'm sure he hears that kind of vocabulary everyday in his own home.

Every time she says you-know-who she also refers to Voldy. She's afraid of him, but saying Harry defeated him is something any witch or wizard will say WITHOUT fear. You don't have an argument here. Also, if Tom Ridlle can make her speak Parseltongue, I think it's very likely she get's a bit of his vocabulary. You know what Tom said, he poured a bit of him into her. It's also a bit that's out of her control. It's very possible that she used it without even knowing it was wrong. She probably didn't know 'dark lord' was only used by death eaters (who should have told her) and since it doesn't say 'Voldemort' she wouldn't be that afraid of it.

I would have to disagree. The toad is out of popularity in the Wizarding world. When Harry goes to get a pet, Hagrid tells him that. So even though it is a different culture, why compare him to something that is out of style.

You should try to read before answering. I said, very clearly, that a LIVE toad is out of fashion. Even though this is true, not even Neville gets teased with it that often, so I guess out of fashion isn't that bad. They can also get back into fashion, so the level of 'insult' just fuctuates. My point is that pickled toad is an ingredient, not a reference to a live toad anymore. It is also used only to reference a colour, not Harry himself. We muggles have very strange things we compare parts of our loved ones with, but they are considered normal nonetheless. I don't think anybody saw it as an insult. If the poem was insulting, Harry would get back on it, don't you think?

Besides if it wasen't an insult why did everyone laugh. What was so funny? It would be a normal thing. Draco wouldn't have found it funny at all. True it is embarrasing for the most part, but all the girls would giggle and think that it was sweet not laugh at him and make fun of him.

Harry had just been knocked down by a dwarf, his books 'n stuff were everywhere and for the record, it is not said that the girls didn't giggle. Everybody laughed. If all the boys start laughing, wouldn't the rest just fall in?

If you would please read the whole thread, like GrintSistah, before making a statement that would be nice. So that way I don't have to repeat myself. Alot of your points are answered before and well....look through and find them. There is no way that Ginny would have sent the Valentine. All actually evidence points to Draco. All other evidence is just heresay. ;)

I DID read it, everything, thank you very much! Again those stupid assumptions. My points have not been answered, and are still open because: tadaa, we are dealing with assumptions here. You assume a lot, I also have to assume a lot, because we don't have all the answers. There is no way any of my points can be answered, only JKR can. There is a clear possibility Ginny send it. There is also a possibility Draco send it. I just wrote down why I think Ginny did it. I would appreciate it if you would not patronize me like this just because with your line of reasoning 'all the evidence points to Draco' while a different line of reasoning clears him just that easily.

Ah! I'm so glad that you posted back! I find this thread very entertaining and love to have a great and more interesting conversation about the whole thing. Thanks so much Elperuaan, I love doing this.

As I read it, Harry was embarassed, but then just laughed at it, with the rest, and wasn't really bothered by the poem, but much more by how Draco almost got a hold of the diary and then abuses Ginny. It's not that big a joke. Also, it's way to clever compared to anything else Draco has tried to do. He's not as cunning as his father you know.

I can't remember my statement that brought this around....but anyways. I think that Harry didn't make a big deal of so that way Draco would not get the satisfaction of making him totally embarrassed....reminding him that he might be like the Dark Lord. Harry is a clear leveled headed person. I'm sure the poem bothered him but like most of the time Harry hids his feelings. I would say true that Draco is not as clever as his father. But he has proven himself somewhat clever. He's more cunning in a different way than his father. This action of writing a poem and sending it to Harry and making it look like it was from Ginny was not too far from his cleverness. For he saw that Ginny did have a crush on Harry while in Flourish and Blotts. And when Lockhart suggested Valentines....whats more embarrasing to get one that is somewhat gushy from a girl. Draco would have thought of something like that. It doesn't take much to play a prank/trick like that.


That's utter rubish and you know it. The whole point of valentine is the fact that you can send something anonymus. I don't know how you celebrate it, but over here only couples put their name under a valantine. Being 'brave as gryffindor' is also a very bad assumption, because the traits mentioned aren't alway met, as we can see in Neville and Wormtail. The true bravery of a Gryffindor doesn't have to extend to the romantic field. Even Harry is not brave when it comes to asking a girl out, and he is one of the bravest boys we know of!

If the whole point of Sending a Valentine is to do it anonymusly then why do they usually have a To: and From: on the cards? There are many different therories about how this holiday started. But one that is consistant is about a man called St. Valentine who was in prision and right before he was excuted on February 24, 270, he wrote a letter to the Jailers daughter who he had become friends with and he signed it:"From Your Valentine". So in other words Valentines is not traditionally a way for people to send your love anonymusly to someone else. Could you explain that a little better for me I don't understand the couples putting their name under a valentine? I've never heard of that before, and I would like to learn. I disagree that the traits aren't always met. Despite that Neville seems to be a coward, I believe that he has great capability of being brave. He does prove that in many instances, like when he stands up to the trio in the first book, and the list goes on. (I'm too lazy to write them all.) And true Harry does have a hard time asking girls out, but he does which proves him to be brave. If he never did then he would be a coward.

Draco was angy for what happened at Flourish and Blotts? That was half a year earlier, I think he would want his revenge a bit sooner? Also, Malfoy doesn't want to laugh behind peoples back, he want's everybody to know what he did. That's his style. He has never, not once, done something that wasn't immediately retraceable to him. He is so unlike his father in that respect, that it's almost comical. Anyway, still not his style. And I don't think you can say something is 'obvious' because, well, you are also assuming a lot.



Neither should you, but seeing that we don't have definate prove either way, we have to assume on some points.

Refer to very last Paragraph, it explains all...I hope. :rotfl:



You mean, beside the fact that she sends singing cards and takes two whole years before she can utter entire sentences to Harry? She was a very shy girl who uses postcard rather than talk herself. I assume.

Um....I doubt that she would use a singing card. If she did, she would know that Harry would know she sent it and that would embarrass her very much. If she is so shy she wouldn't want to have even been around when he received it. And besides most of this stuff doesn't make sense. The more we see of Ginny, the more I'm lead to believe that either Draco or someone else did it. I think that it is unfair to pin it on her since she is not the only possibility.


That is perhaps the most idiotic thing I have ever heard on these forums. Because I'm a boy I don't have legs to stand on. Right. What if I told you I'm a teacher who works with 10 to 12 year olds and have received numerous card over the years? Do I still have no leg to stand on? Please refrain from these assumptions, they do not look nice.

Now is it? Are you a girl? Do you understand the complete workings of a girls mind at the age of 10 to 12? I don't think so. As much as I can understand everything in the minds of men. It's impossible. Why else is there so much conflict between our sexes, because we can never really understand eachother. And tell me what is idiotic about that? Nothing. Just because girls have given you numerous cards over the years does not make you expert on their species by any means. I proud of you for teaching the next generation to come, but cards and notes from 10 to 12 can not be generalized for every girl that age.


That's advanced stuff. Cho takes the lead there. I'm talking about before girls start to ask boys. I don't know about where you live, but again, 11-12 year olds having a crush and being romantic about it isn't that strange. They are also helped by a pletora of magazines aiming for this group, and already talking about this.

um.... do they have magazines like that in the wizarding world? I haven't heard of any. Anyways, true Ginny has a crush on Harry. But she hasen't done anything about before, and hasn't done anything after, so why would she send a Valentine and never try again. Ginny is very stubborn as we have seen in the last book. I doubt she would give up so easily on Harry despite what happens with the Valentine.


Every time she says you-know-who she also refers to Voldy. She's afraid of him, but saying Harry defeated him is something any witch or wizard will say WITHOUT fear. You don't have an argument here. Also, if Tom Ridlle can make her speak Parseltongue, I think it's very likely she get's a bit of his vocabulary. You know what Tom said, he poured a bit of him into her. It's also a bit that's out of her control. It's very possible that she used it without even knowing it was wrong. She probably didn't know 'dark lord' was only used by death eaters (who should have told her) and since it doesn't say 'Voldemort' she wouldn't be that afraid of it.

I would have to disagree about the Tom Riddle part. True he does make her speak parseltongue and what not. But I'm sure that he would erase any part of her that would remind her that he has taken over her. He would make sure that nothing would remain for her to say...."Um..I usually don't say that...oh wait I remember now, Tom Riddle possesed me." And the other arguement that Tom Riddle sent the Valentine is absurd. Why would he send the boy who almost killed him a valentine through Ginny. It doesn't make sense. Try to kill him....more believable, send him a valentine....no! Tom Riddle would not let Ginny make a vital mistake like that. It could cost him his whole plan of coming back. True she wouldn't even know to call Voldermort the Dark Lord, but Draco would. He's Father calls Voldermort the Dark Lord in Private.


You should try to read before answering. I said, very clearly, that a LIVE toad is out of fashion. Even though this is true, not even Neville gets teased with it that often, so I guess out of fashion isn't that bad. They can also get back into fashion, so the level of 'insult' just fuctuates. My point is that pickled toad is an ingredient, not a reference to a live toad anymore. It is also used only to reference a colour, not Harry himself. We muggles have very strange things we compare parts of our loved ones with, but they are considered normal nonetheless. I don't think anybody saw it as an insult. If the poem was insulting, Harry would get back on it, don't you think?

Why would a dead toad be in fashion? :huh: A yes, it is an ingredient, and who does pretty well with Snapes Potion class. Not Ginny, but Draco. He could have used that just recently for class and then decided to use it in the poem as an insult or maybe trying to write what he thought Ginny would use to describe Harry's eyes. True about us muggles, but we have yet to know if it is or isn't the same way in the wizarding world. I don't think that it would bother Harry again since he has....well more important things on his plate, espeically if he thinks that Ginny sent it, then whats too worry.

Harry had just been knocked down by a dwarf, his books 'n stuff were everywhere and for the record, it is not said that the girls didn't giggle. Everybody laughed. If all the boys start laughing, wouldn't the rest just fall in?
Oh yeah... I forgot that. :blush: :D


I DID read it, everything, thank you very much! Again those stupid assumptions. My points have not been answered, and are still open because: tadaa, we are dealing with assumptions here. You assume a lot, I also have to assume a lot, because we don't have all the answers. There is no way any of my points can be answered, only JKR can. There is a clear possibility Ginny send it. There is also a possibility Draco send it. I just wrote down why I think Ginny did it. I would appreciate it if you would not patronize me like this just because with your line of reasoning 'all the evidence points to Draco' while a different line of reasoning clears him just that easily.

I'm glad that you did read it. I was wondering since you made comments that several people have already refuted and then never took into consideration their side of the arguement. Ah, but assumptions with text and stuff that happen in the books are a little more than just regular assumptions. And do I wish that JKR would tell us this. Then we could settle this for good. But on the whole I enjoy the discussion and would like to take a few more wacks at it before JKR decides to disclouse that information. Ah, true. It doesn't have to be Draco. But Ginny is not the only choice. It could easily be Fred and George, Lockhart himself or Snape for all we know. But I think that it does scream the work of Draco and just as you stated it was Ginny, I believe that it is Draco, so of course I would like to discuss this with you. (Since I don't think that Ginny could have done it. It's the easiest choice. And with JKR you never pick the easiest choice. She proved that in the first book with Snape and Quirell.)

Anyways, I'm sorry if I have frusterated you. I never meant to insult you or hurt you. I just speak my mind a little too freely. Please understand that I do not think lowly of you by any means. On the contrary I find your arguments very amusing and pleasing. I enjoy all the thinking that you provoke. Please do not be ofdended and realized that I only enjoy a good discussion.

Ah! I'm so glad that you posted back! I find this thread very entertaining and love to have a great and more interesting conversation about the whole thing. Thanks so much Elperuaan, I love doing this.

It is, isn't it? I just love those characters (Ginny and Draco) they add a little spice to it.

I can't remember my statement that brought this around....but anyways. I think that Harry didn't make a big deal of so that way Draco would not get the satisfaction of making him totally embarrassed....reminding him that he might be like the Dark Lord.

Well, beside the fact that it is described (as I see it) as if Draco just happened to stumble upon this scene, we know for sure it's only coincedence It happens right outside the line of first years. Which means that either Draco is an excellent planner, or he was just lucky. But let's say he did send the card/dwarf, but it wouldn't corner Harry in sight of Ginny. Draco would not know when Harry would receive it. So he had to follow the dwarf all the time, or something like that, just to laugh at Harry. Even if he did that, he could hardly try to find Ginny to make the remark "Harry didn't like your valentine". It would be a very lame remark, since Ginny would know she didn't send it. So the only way this could work was the scene we can read in the book. This way, Draco could laugh at Harry and make his hurting remark with enough effect. A little to coincedental if you ask me. Now if Ginny send the dwarf, it would still be a coincedence it ended up right in front of her, but the remark of Draco would just be a "remark of opportunity", which to me is more logical than him masterminding it all. I also feel he only makes the remark because he's mad Harry took the diary from him, nothing else.

Harry is a clear leveled headed person. I'm sure the poem bothered him but like most of the time Harry hids his feelings."

Well, I wouldn't exactly call him level headed, but you're right about bottling up his feelings. Another reason why this would be a lame joke.

I would say true that Draco is not as clever as his father. But he has proven himself somewhat clever. He's more cunning in a different way than his father. This action of writing a poem and sending it to Harry and making it look like it was from Ginny was not too far from his cleverness. For he saw that Ginny did have a crush on Harry while in Flourish and Blotts. And when Lockhart suggested Valentines....

Well, his cleverness goes as far as the favouratism Snape shows him. I love the little scene in knockturn alley, very enlighting.. But all the things Draco has done over the years were out in the open, and usually done by others (he loves to let others do the dirty jobs..And we know Crabbe and Goyle can't write... Anyway, every single thing he has done, he always made sure people knew it was him. He has never, not once, done something that wasn't immediately retraceable. That's also why I don't believe it's him. The card is a very minor plot-item, used mainly just to let Ginny know where the diary was. It won't return in any of the books. Now JKR is the kind of writer who will explain everything that needs explaining. So if the card was from Draco, she would have made sure we got to know that before the end of the book, because she can hardly do it in book 7. But that, again, is an assumption. I just feel that this one is straight up.

whats more embarrasing to get one that is somewhat gushy from a girl.

Ehm, maybe having to tell your fellow Slytherins that you send a gushy girl like card to Harry Potter? Just to take credit for the joke? I don't think it impresses a lot of people.

If the whole point of Sending a Valentine is to do it anonymusly then why do they usually have a To: and From: on the cards?

Again, that's not the way we play it here in Holland. From 10 (or whenever you feel old enough to have your first crush) to about 14-15, you send an anonymous to somebody you love if you don't know wether or not it is mutual. These are usually signed with 'your valentine' or something. Now, when you go steady with somebody (usually 12-17 years) you sign it with your name, OR you sign 'your valentine' but give it personally.

So, even though I don't know if it's the same in the UK, for me it's not that strange when a 10-11 year old girl, who is old enough to have a severe crush, to go all romantic, but to shy to say it, and ends up sending a valentine when opportunity knocks. It could happen on any elementary school here, anyway.

There are many different therories about how this holiday started. But one that is consistant is about a man called St. Valentine who was in prision and right before he was excuted on February 24, 270, he wrote a letter to the Jailers daughter who he had become friends with and he signed it:"From Your Valentine". So in other words Valentines is not traditionally a way for people to send your love anonymusly to someone else. Could you explain that a little better for me I don't understand the couples putting their name under a valentine? I've never heard of that before, and I would like to learn.

You would like to learn? That's always a good thing. I still don't know where you're from though, so I'll keep it simple.
It's a nice anecdote, but even though this man died in roman times, the tradition is older than his death. The 14th was the birthday of the mother of gods and godesses. On the night of 14 to 15, maiden names were placed in a box, and boy, who were usually kept strictly seperated, were allowed to draw a name and then spent soem time with the girl they got. Pretty anonymus, or at least, 'blind' dating, right?

I disagree that the traits aren't always met. Despite that Neville seems to be a coward, I believe that he has great capability of being brave. He does prove that in many instances, like when he stands up to the trio in the first book, and the list goes on. (I'm too lazy to write them all.) And true Harry does have a hard time asking girls out, but he does which proves him to be brave. If he never did then he would be a coward.

I should have been more clear. I meant that the traits aren't always met in every field. Harry is a good example. When it comes to facing Voldemort, he's the bravest. When it comes to simply lassoing a girl, he's as brave as Neville. Neville is brave when his friends are in danger, but comes to pieces when facing a teacher. That's what I meant. Gryffindors aren't brave in every field of life.

Um....I doubt that she would use a singing card. If she did, she would know that Harry would know she sent it and that would embarrass her very much.

Or maybe he would notice her? Also, if it doesn't work out, she can always deny it, and say it must have been a trick of Draco. (that's why things are done anonymus here anyway)

If she is so shy she wouldn't want to have even been around when he received it.

First, she had no say in the matter of 'where it happened' that was happenstance. Second, she couldn't run away, which would be suspicious, and she couldn't enter class because the door was still shut. I think she wanted to get away, but also wanted to see how Harry would take it. Isn't her mood described? (I'm at work, I don't have the book on me at the moment)

And besides most of this stuff doesn't make sense. The more we see of Ginny, the more I'm lead to believe that either Draco or someone else did it. I think that it is unfair to pin it on her since she is not the only possibility.

All this stuff doesn't make sense isn't an argument. I don't know what you mean by stuff, but it makes perfect sense to me up to now. It's also unfair to pin it on Draco, because he is not the only possibility. The more I see of Ginny (now that she has lost her crush and is shown a bit more) just makes me feel she is perfectly capable of this bold move.

Now is it? Are you a girl? Do you understand the complete workings of a girls mind at the age of 10 to 12? I don't think so.

I never said that. I said 10-11 year old girls do have crushes sometimes, and do send cards sometimes. That's a fact. I don't say every girl does it, and I don't say I know the inner workings of girls through and through (although you all are very obvious, I might add) But the simple matter is: I know girls of that age, occasionally, send these cards. therefore, your assumption that 10-11 year old girls DON'T send cards like this is wrong. I have seen them do it, and they will do it untill the end of time. Some of them play with dolls and don't care about boys, others have crushes and do care. It's a fact I, as a man, am perfectly capable of observing and interpretting. You will find that most research is also done by observation. If all the facts we humans have collected to date were only collected by the brains they are about, we would have no idea of animal behavior (because well, according to your statement, you can only tell what somebody does or doesn't do by having the brain yourself) and children's psychiatry wouldn't excist I guess. So I don't think I need a girls brain to figure out whether or not girls of that age send cards or not.

I proud of you for teaching the next generation to come, but cards and notes from 10 to 12 can not be generalized for every girl that age.

Aha, my dear girl, posts can be misleading! (just to paraphrase another beautifull character of CoS.)
I said: What IF I'm a teacher of 10-12 year olds, and have gotten a lot of cards?
I'm not a teacher. I'm a scientist in biomedical sciences, and in my last year as a student. I just made up this proffesion because I wanted to give an example of somebody who, by observation, could very well tell you girls send cards. I did have a nice teacher when I was 11, and yes, he did receive valentines from some of the girls in my group. But I thought it would be to lame to start ranting about an old teacher of mine. Sorry if I let you believe I was a teacher... I'm just a collector of new knowledge.

um.... do they have magazines like that in the wizarding world? I haven't heard of any. Anyways, true Ginny has a crush on Harry. But she hasen't done anything about before, and hasn't done anything after, so why would she send a Valentine and never try again. Ginny is very stubborn as we have seen in the last book. I doubt she would give up so easily on Harry despite what happens with the Valentine.

I don't know about magazines, but in Harry's first year, she could do very little. In her first year, yes, she could have tried something. But she was shy, she couldn't even say complete sentences, and she wasn't sure Harry even noticed her. Then comes Valentine's day (which usually isn't celebrated like this) and there's this golden opportunity to send something anonymus. This way she can send something, see or hear how Harry reacts, whether he does think of her (because, according to Riddle, she wasn't sure Harry ever noticed her) and confronts her, or better yet, tells her she likes him too. If it doesn't work out, she can deny everything, saying somebody must have played a joke on him... It's perfect for her.

I would have to disagree about the Tom Riddle part. True he does make her speak parseltongue and what not. But I'm sure that he would erase any part of her that would remind her that he has taken over her.He would make sure that nothing would remain for her to say...."Um..I usually don't say that...oh wait I remember now, Tom Riddle possesed me."

He would, if he was present. Notice that I say some of his vocabulairy is left in her, not his person, or something that can think for itself. I believe that still resided in the diary at that time, which was in the hands of Harry. So this phrase 'dark lord' could have lingered. Also note that it is not frowned upon. Nobody in the crowd says: The dwarf said Dark Lord! He must be a death eater!
Which reinforces my believe that none of the children (except the ones from DE) know that it is only used by DE. So Ginny tried to make things rhyme, and suddenly found 'dark lord', then she thought: Well, he was dark, and he called himself lord, so I can use it, and it will scare nobody, because it's not the same as 'lord voldemort' and it rhymes better than 'you-know-who' (also sounds better, defeating a lord instead of a you-know-who). So she uses the phrase, blisfully unaware of it's deeper meaning, or where it comes from.

And the other arguement that Tom Riddle sent the Valentine is absurd. Why would he send the boy who almost killed him a valentine through Ginny. It doesn't make sense. Try to kill him....more believable, send him a valentine....no! Tom Riddle would not let Ginny make a vital mistake like that. It could cost him his whole plan of coming back.

I never said Tom send it, or even thought of sending it. At this time, he doesn't control Ginny (the attacks also stop at this time) so it's only faint impressions and a bit of his vocabulary that's left in her. That's my assumption at least.

True she wouldn't even know to call Voldermort the Dark Lord, but Draco would. He's Father calls Voldermort the Dark Lord in Private.

And therefore he wouldn't use it, because if Harry knew this, it would be only to obvious Ginny didn't send it, and Draco's little joke on the two of them wouldn't work, and he will probably get blamed immediately. Draco doesn't know what Harry does and doesn't know about DE's, so I only feel that it's an argument against Draco being the creator. He would use you-know-who to make it look like Ginny send it.

Why would a dead toad be in fashion?

That's the whole point. A live toad can be used as an insult, a potion ingredient can't, or at least hardly, because wizards and witches would see it as an ingredient first, and not as a reference to a lame toad.

A yes, it is an ingredient, and who does pretty well with Snapes Potion class. Not Ginny,

How do you know that?

but Draco.

No, he does not. Snape shows him favouratism, but we have never heard whether or not any of the potions Draco makes is the right colour or something (Crabbe and Goyle are usually mentioned). So judging by the remarks made by Draco's father, I don't think he does well in any class.

He could have used that just recently for class and then decided to use it in the poem as an insult or maybe trying to write what he thought Ginny would use to describe Harry's eyes. True about us muggles, but we have yet to know if it is or isn't the same way in the wizarding world. I don't think that it would bother Harry again since he has....well more important things on his plate, espeically if he thinks that Ginny sent it, then whats too worry.

It could just as well be Ginny who, working on a potion, thinking about her dream guy, suddenly realised the toad she was using had exactly the same colour. Or she helpes her mum with ingredients, and searching for the right way to describe Harry's eye's, she thinks about that toad they pickled that summer...It could come from anywhere, my point is, it's not insulting, because it's not a reference of a live toad (like, umbridge is a foul little toad) but a reference to something ordinairy to wizardkind that has the right colour. (your lips are as red as cherry's, his eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad). That's my point. That's my assumption. I don't feel it's insulting.

I'm glad that you did read it. I was wondering since you made comments that several people have already refuted

There isn't anything here that can be refuted, only thought of differently, but that's not refuting, that's believing you're right and the other is wrong. Baseline is, we can't refute anything, it's all based on assumptions.

and then never took into consideration their side of the arguement.

Well, I did reference to their arguments, I'm sure, but I just tried to tell the world I interpret the facts we have differently, mix them with my experiences, and come to my own conclusion.

Ah, but assumptions with text and stuff that happen in the books are a little more than just regular assumptions.

But assumptions none the less, and just as fallible

And do I wish that JKR would tell us this. Then we could settle this for good. But on the whole I enjoy the discussion and would like to take a few more wacks at it before JKR decides to disclouse that information.

I don't think she will. It's to minor. And as I said, part of why I believe that it's Ginny stems from the fact that there is no reference to anybody else who could have done it in the entire book. It's not a strong argument, but an argument none the less. I feel JKR would have incorporated something to tell us it was not Ginny. Just because this book is the only book it would fit (imagine Draco telling Harry in book seven: By the way, I send you that valentine, not Ginny) If it was Draco, he would have said so, telling Harry it was fun to see him go red like that, and be embarrased in front of all those people. That's his style.

Ah, true. It doesn't have to be Draco. But Ginny is not the only choice. It could easily be Fred and George, Lockhart himself or Snape for all we know. But I think that it does scream the work of Draco and just as you stated it was Ginny, I believe that it is Draco, so of course I would like to discuss this with you. (Since I don't think that Ginny could have done it. It's the easiest choice. And with JKR you never pick the easiest choice. She proved that in the first book with Snape and Quirell.)

I'm not saying there aren't any other candidates, I'm just saying I find Ginny the most likely. Fred and George would never do that to Ginny, it's not their style. Lockhart would only send Valentines to himself, as is his style, and Snape would sooner curse a dwarf into tiny pieces then tell it to send a card to Harry. Draco, wel, you know what I think of him.

Anyways, I'm sorry if I have frusterated you. I never meant to insult you or hurt you. I just speak my mind a little too freely. Please understand that I do not think lowly of you by any means. On the contrary I find your arguments very amusing and pleasing. I enjoy all the thinking that you provoke. Please do not be ofdended and realized that I only enjoy a good discussion.

Well, it wasn't that bad, it's just the fact that there is no refuting, and there never will be, because we don't have all the facts. The difference in theories here just stems from interpretting the same data in a different way. To me, everything fits as I descibe it, and to me, Draco couldn't do something with so many variables. Or with so much secrecy. To me, Ginny is the perfect type, because it fits with my experiences with 10-11 year old girls with crushes during valentine season. So I'm not offended or anything, I like a good discussion, and stalemates are perfectly fine with me.

Hey by the way I love your siggy! That's hillarious!

All these Quote come from elperuaan


Well, beside the fact that it is described (as I see it) as if Draco just happened to stumble upon this scene, we know for sure it's only coincedence It happens right outside the line of first years. Which means that either Draco is an excellent planner, or he was just lucky. But let's say he did send the card/dwarf, but it wouldn't corner Harry in sight of Ginny. Draco would not know when Harry would receive it. So he had to follow the dwarf all the time, or something like that, just to laugh at Harry. Even if he did that, he could hardly try to find Ginny to make the remark "Harry didn't like your valentine". It would be a very lame remark, since Ginny would know she didn't send it. So the only way this could work was the scene we can read in the book. This way, Draco could laugh at Harry and make his hurting remark with enough effect. A little to coincedental if you ask me. Now if Ginny send the dwarf, it would still be a coincedence it ended up right in front of her, but the remark of Draco would just be a "remark of opportunity", which to me is more logical than him masterminding it all. I also feel he only makes the remark because he's mad Harry took the diary from him, nothing else.

I also wonder if Draco did not intend to have Ginny there. It just happened to turn out that way. He could have told the Dwarf when to send it to Harry, and he would know since they have a few classes together and have seen in the Hallways a few times to know when they would be together to see him received it. And then to his luck Ginny happened to be there too.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call him level headed, but you're right about bottling up his feelings. Another reason why this would be a lame joke.
That Draco would have messed up on becasue he isn't that cunning to know that Harry wouldn't give him the satisfaction of being really upset by it. ;)



Well, his cleverness goes as far as the favouratism Snape shows him. I love the little scene in knockturn alley, very enlighting.. But all the things Draco has done over the years were out in the open, and usually done by others (he loves to let others do the dirty jobs..And we know Crabbe and Goyle can't write... Anyway, every single thing he has done, he always made sure people knew it was him. He has never, not once, done something that wasn't immediately retraceable. That's also why I don't believe it's him. The card is a very minor plot-item, used mainly just to let Ginny know where the diary was. It won't return in any of the books. Now JKR is the kind of writer who will explain everything that needs explaining. So if the card was from Draco, she would have made sure we got to know that before the end of the book, because she can hardly do it in book 7. But that, again, is an assumption. I just feel that this one is straight up.

I'm glad that you have pointed this out. Most people skim over that idea, which has been good for me since I've never com up for answer for it. Draco is the kind of person who would take credit for it and show Harry that he embarrassed him or upset him. I've never had any further argument for this than that, Draco did not want people to know that he had sent it especially after it didn't work out as well has he had planned. I could see him enlisting the help of his friend.....Oh what's her name, the girl from Slytherin maybe its Pansy Parkinson. I don't have the books with me either. I'm at work too! ;) Well the girl that Draco I'm sure has a crush on that's a Slytherin. She could have written the poem, used some advice from Draco and then told the dwarf what time to deliver it. I'm sure that Lochart would allow someone to do that too. He would be willing to cater to anyone who would send a Valetine to Harry.



Ehm, maybe having to tell your fellow Slytherins that you send a gushy girl like card to Harry Potter? Just to take credit for the joke? I don't think it impresses a lot of people.

And maybe that is why Draco has said nothing to anybody about it.




Again, that's not the way we play it here in Holland. From 10 (or whenever you feel old enough to have your first crush) to about 14-15, you send an anonymous to somebody you love if you don't know wether or not it is mutual. These are usually signed with 'your valentine' or something. Now, when you go steady with somebody (usually 12-17 years) you sign it with your name, OR you sign 'your valentine' but give it personally.

Hmm....interesting I never did that in grade school. I always signed my name. It was more about the candy. By the time we got into Junior High/middle school, nobody gave any Valetines at all. Actually I haven't received one since I was in grade school. Kind of sad huh? I don't care though. It's never really been a big deal around here.

So, even though I don't know if it's the same in the UK, for me it's not that strange when a 10-11 year old girl, who is old enough to have a severe crush, to go all romantic, but to shy to say it, and ends up sending a valentine when opportunity knocks. It could happen on any elementary school here, anyway.

I don't know what is like for the UK. I will have to ask my friends about that. Maybe they could shed some light on the subject. But I can see where you get that idea of a girl sending a valentine. I on the hand, have only seen that people really don't celebrate Valetines unless you have a girl/boy friend or have a spouse. So for me to hear people doing that make seems strange. Not wrong just strange.



You would like to learn? That's always a good thing. I still don't know where you're from though, so I'll keep it simple.
It's a nice anecdote, but even though this man died in roman times, the tradition is older than his death. The 14th was the birthday of the mother of gods and godesses. On the night of 14 to 15, maiden names were placed in a box, and boy, who were usually kept strictly seperated, were allowed to draw a name and then spent soem time with the girl they got. Pretty anonymus, or at least, 'blind' dating, right?

Who doesn't like to learn? Oh, I live in the USA. I forget that my uh, profile doesn't say that. I must change it though. I've been married to Cloud Strife for too long. :rotfl: Ah, that is quite interesting. I knew that it went further back than just that man in jail. Actually I'm more interested to know how you celebrate it where you live. I love culture. I find it very interesting so I have had tadbits here and there. But I want to know a bit more. Every country celebrates differently.



I should have been more clear. I meant that the traits aren't always met in every field. Harry is a good example. When it comes to facing Voldemort, he's the bravest. When it comes to simply lassoing a girl, he's as brave as Neville. Neville is brave when his friends are in danger, but comes to pieces when facing a teacher. That's what I meant. Gryffindors aren't brave in every field of life.

Got it, now that makes sense. I can agree with that. Ron is afraid of spiders and he is a Gryffindor. But at the same time I still believe that they can conquer their fears because they are type casted as Gryffindors.

First, she had no say in the matter of 'where it happened' that was happenstance. Second, she couldn't run away, which would be suspicious, and she couldn't enter class because the door was still shut. I think she wanted to get away, but also wanted to see how Harry would take it. Isn't her mood described? (I'm at work, I don't have the book on me at the moment) Lol! I don't have my books either. I will go home and look it up and get back with you. ;)



I never said that. I said 10-11 year old girls do have crushes sometimes, and do send cards sometimes. That's a fact. I don't say every girl does it, and I don't say I know the inner workings of girls through and through (although you all are very obvious, I might add) But the simple matter is: I know girls of that age, occasionally, send these cards. therefore, your assumption that 10-11 year old girls DON'T send cards like this is wrong. I have seen them do it, and they will do it untill the end of time. Some of them play with dolls and don't care about boys, others have crushes and do care. It's a fact I, as a man, am perfectly capable of observing and interpretting. You will find that most research is also done by observation. If all the facts we humans have collected to date were only collected by the brains they are about, we would have no idea of animal behavior (because well, according to your statement, you can only tell what somebody does or doesn't do by having the brain yourself) and children's psychiatry wouldn't excist I guess. So I don't think I need a girls brain to figure out whether or not girls of that age send cards or not.

But at the same time data collecting is not always acurate there will be people who do not always fit the bill. Just because some girls send card doesn't mean that all girls that age send cards. I'm sorry I didn't just get to point on this. But I was trying to say that maybe Ginny would an exception to the rule... Like I was when I was that age. Even now I get along better with guys than I do with girls. Ginny to me seems more Tom-Boyish than most girls. She grew up with all brothers and I bet that she would be more likely to do something more Boyish than girlish. (As you can see I'm more along the sociologcial parts of science. I never believe that people can predict what other people will always do by just looking at the brain. But what can you expect from a sociologist (my minor)). I feel that Ginny is the exeption to the rule because of those things. And more likely I just relate to Ginny, and well....I wouldn't do something like that. But I guess that I have to take into consideration that just cause I understand Ginny, doesn't mean that she is just like me. :rotfl: Did you like that. I just proved myself wrong. :rotfl:



Aha, my dear girl, posts can be misleading! (just to paraphrase another beautifull character of CoS.)
I said: What IF I'm a teacher of 10-12 year olds, and have gotten a lot of cards?
I'm not a teacher. I'm a scientist in biomedical sciences, and in my last year as a student. I just made up this proffesion because I wanted to give an example of somebody who, by observation, could very well tell you girls send cards. I did have a nice teacher when I was 11, and yes, he did receive valentines from some of the girls in my group. But I thought it would be to lame to start ranting about an old teacher of mine. Sorry if I let you believe I was a teacher... I'm just a collector of new knowledge.

No no, it was all my fault. I tend to read too fast and skip over words here and there. Mostly its the ADD's fault. But don't worry. I just do that from time to time. :D That's cool that you are a biomedcial Scientist. I will actually be starting my last year of doing my bacholors of Arts in English, Editing. Yeah, I'm thinking of getting my Masters in something else. :lol: That's cool. It makes sense and I understand. I just like to read between the lines.


I never said Tom send it, or even thought of sending it. At this time, he doesn't control Ginny (the attacks also stop at this time) so it's only faint impressions and a bit of his vocabulary that's left in her. That's my assumption at least.

I know that you don't think that way. But somebody else above us wrote that they believe that Tom Riddle sent the Valentine. I was in refernce to them not you sorry!




Okay, I'm sorry I didn't get the rest but I have to go. I will talk to you later. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I'm still unsure of who really sent it. But we will have to keep working on that. Talk to you tommorrow.

I've wondered about this before... it does seem like a loose end, doesn't it? It doesn't quite fit perfectly to think that Ginny sent it. Although if it's a plant for something later, I can't imagine what it would be... I agree that it might not have been Ginny, but unfortunately I have no theories of my own.

I dont have a clue who it could have been.. it might have been Ginny but I can see why people are saying it might have been Malfoy.

Alright....Like I promised I found the part in the book. CoS English Version

Malfoy was looking furious, and as Ginny passed him to enter her classroom, he yelled spitefully after her. 'I don't think Potter liked your Valentine much!'

Alright....Like I promised I found the part in the book. CoS English Version

Malfoy was looking furious, and as Ginny passed him to enter her classroom, he yelled spitefully after her. 'I don't think Potter liked your Valentine much!'
Ginny covered her face with her hands and ran into class.

English Version pg 178, American 238-239(somewhere in there)

This could go either way for the arguement.

It could have been that Ginny did write the Valentine and was hurrying away so that Harry would not notice her. And here she is even more embarrassed and covers her "blushing" face so that Harry and Malfoy do not see it. I am speculating that she is blushing, but since JKR does not say that she blushes we can only assume that she is.

The other way could be that Malfoy's plan didn't work excatly as he thought it would. Harry was not as embarrassed as he had hoped since Harry (I can't remember excalty.....but something like...) "Trying Valiently to laugh with the others." Harry was embarrassed but he didn't let anyone see that by any means. He shrugs it off. So in a desprete attempt to strike at anyone near to get back at Harry and ruin things with maybe a blooming relationship draco quickly announce to everyone that it was Ginny who did it. This A:Ruins a possible relationship between Harry and Ginny. B: Embarasses them both. C: throws blame away from Draco onto a plausible idea of Ginny. C1: Since Dracos plan did not work he would not want to claim that he did, therefore blame someone else for his failed attempt to embarrass and humilate Potter.

Now, moments eariler Ginny did see Riddle's diary in Harry's hands. She could have covered her face for A: worried about Harry and Riddle's diary. B: Is blushing because she knows everyone will now think that she sent the Valentine, but is more concerned about the diary in Harry's hands, so she quickly leaves the situtation so that she can solve her immediate embassaing problem to fix the diary problem in peace.

Did I miss anything? I'm willing to look at it a different way. As you can see by the length of my explaination for the Draco theory, it is obvious what I favor.

Now as to what was said earlier I wonder in many instances why JKR would not have let us know sooner about the Valentine, who really sent it. The obvious answer is A: Ginny really did send it. or B: It will come up in the later books. We still at this moment, have two more books to go. Who knows what can happen in that time. There have been many things in the past that JKR has not answered for certain reasons and this maybe one of them. Or it is not really important and she will never answer the question for us.

Alright....Like I promised I found the part in the book. CoS English Version

Malfoy was looking furious, and as Ginny passed him to enter her classroom, he yelled spitefully after her. 'I don't think Potter liked your Valentine much!'

Alright....Like I promised I found the part in the book. CoS English Version



English Version pg 178, American 238-239(somewhere in there)

This could go either way for the arguement.

It could have been that Ginny did write the Valentine and was hurrying away so that Harry would not notice her. And here she is even more embarrassed and covers her "blushing" face so that Harry and Malfoy do not see it. I am speculating that she is blushing, but since JKR does not say that she blushes we can only assume that she is.

Either blushing, or on the verge of tears. I can't decide. Anyway, I like to believe that what you see is what you get here. If you back up just a bit, we are probably witnessing what makes Draco so furious: He has a diary, and he's about to open it, possibly reading something emberrassing out loud. All of a sudden, Harry uses a spell that snatches the diary out of Malfoys hands, denying Draco his treat, and moreover, it makes Draco look like a fool. This infuriates Draco to such an extent that he tries to save his face by making an even bigger fool out of somebody else. This can't be Harry, because well, anything Draco can do at this point would still be less then what Harry did to him, so he goes for the easiest victim, Ginny. Remembering how she's interested in Harry, he makes his little remark, causing her to blush/cry because she had no intention of telling Harry she send it, after what the dwarf did to him, and so Draco had his small revenge. Just as small as he is.

The other way could be that Malfoy's plan didn't work excatly as he thought it would. Harry was not as embarrassed as he had hoped since Harry (I can't remember excalty.....but something like...) "Trying Valiently to laugh with the others." Harry was embarrassed but he didn't let anyone see that by any means. He shrugs it off. So in a desprete attempt to strike at anyone near to get back at Harry and ruin things with maybe a blooming relationship draco quickly announce to everyone that it was Ginny who did it. This A:Ruins a possible relationship between Harry and Ginny. B: Embarasses them both. C: throws blame away from Draco onto a plausible idea of Ginny. C1: Since Dracos plan did not work he would not want to claim that he did, therefore blame someone else for his failed attempt to embarrass and humilate Potter.

Ah, but he didn't know whether or not his remark would increase or decrease Ginny's chances with Harry. For all he knew, his little remark could just have been what made Harry see Ginny was in love, so it was a very dangerous thing to try. Also, his remark couldn't hurt Harry in any way. I still feel it was an on the spot remark of somebody that was furious for just being denied a treat, and I do mean the diary.

Now, moments eariler Ginny did see Riddle's diary in Harry's hands. She could have covered her face for A: worried about Harry and Riddle's diary. B: Is blushing because she knows everyone will now think that she sent the Valentine, but is more concerned about the diary in Harry's hands, so she quickly leaves the situtation so that she can solve her immediate embassaing problem to fix the diary problem in peace.

I think it's both. She worries about the diary, but she is also embarrased by the remark. As I said, you send an anonymus valentine to 'scout ahead', and after this disastrous valentine, I can't blame her for not wanting to claim credit right away...

Did I miss anything? I'm willing to look at it a different way. As you can see by the length of my explaination for the Draco theory, it is obvious what I favor.

Yes, and by my lengthy explenations, I guess I like chocolate...

Now as to what was said earlier I wonder in many instances why JKR would not have let us know sooner about the Valentine, who really sent it. The obvious answer is A: Ginny really did send it. or B: It will come up in the later books. We still at this moment, have two more books to go. Who knows what can happen in that time. There have been many things in the past that JKR has not answered for certain reasons and this maybe one of them. Or it is not really important and she will never answer the question for us.

I agree it's not definate proof, the fact that this matter has never really been dissolved... But I feel the whole scene was only there to make it plausible for Ginny to have seen Harry with the diary. So the plot device to get to this scene is not that important. I could be wrong off course, though I seldom am... :huh: :angel: :eyebrows: :evil: :p

Thanks for the compliment on my sig, I like it too. I just searched for the pic for a little joke on the misc. actor thread, but thought I could use it for this too.

:lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: Sorry I can't help myself. That's so funny! I would just like to remind you that my name is not Goldmare. I don't know where you got that but I find it remarkably funny. :rotfl: I was so sure that those were my words, but I was trying to find this person who you quoted from, and then I saw my own post and realized those were my words. Ah, yes, the blonde roots are showing again. :rotfl:



Either blushing, or on the verge of tears. I can't decide. Anyway, I like to believe that what you see is what you get here. If you back up just a bit, we are probably witnessing what makes Draco so furious: He has a diary, and he's about to open it, possibly reading something emberrassing out loud. All of a sudden, Harry uses a spell that snatches the diary out of Malfoys hands, denying Draco his treat, and moreover, it makes Draco look like a fool. This infuriates Draco to such an extent that he tries to save his face by making an even bigger fool out of somebody else. This can't be Harry, because well, anything Draco can do at this point would still be less then what Harry did to him, so he goes for the easiest victim, Ginny. Remembering how she's interested in Harry, he makes his little remark, causing her to blush/cry because she had no intention of telling Harry she send it, after what the dwarf did to him, and so Draco had his small revenge. Just as small as he is.

That is very pausible. It probably makes more sense that way. But I still think that Draco would do something more. True he can quickly put the spotlight on someone else, but however much, he seems to choose those words I find very interesting. He could have said almost anything to Ginny that would have insulted her.(About her family, being poor, the red hair, the blank expressions, her blood..etc). I can see that since the Valentine just recently happened that it would be on his mind. But he could have said anything else about the Valentine and made fun of her. It's the fact that he accuse her of sending it that sticks out in my mind. She never confirms that she did or didn't. Why is this? She could be too shy to approch Harry with the truth either way.



Ah, but he didn't know whether or not his remark would increase or decrease Ginny's chances with Harry. For all he knew, his little remark could just have been what made Harry see Ginny was in love, so it was a very dangerous thing to try. Also, his remark couldn't hurt Harry in any way. I still feel it was an on the spot remark of somebody that was furious for just being denied a treat, and I do mean the diary.

Not always. Harry has been just totaly mortified by the fact that someone sent him a Valentine and that it was given to him infront of most of the school. Because of his embarassement he will most likely be angry at the person who caused and therefore it would only be logical to be mad at the person who sent the Valentine. I could see that it would mostly like hinder any relationship rather than make it grow. And if Ginny did send the Valentine, we see that she does nothing else to attract Harry's attention. Well then Malfoy's remark stopped her from pursuing the relationship.



I think it's both. She worries about the diary, but she is also embarrased by the remark. As I said, you send an anonymus valentine to 'scout ahead', and after this disastrous valentine, I can't blame her for not wanting to claim credit right away...

Agreed that she worries both about the diary and the remark. But what her thoughts are at the moment are unknown....(wouldn't it be nice to know). I could see her not wanting to claim credit right away either.....but neither would Draco which is why he said nothing either and blamed it on her.



Yes, and by my lengthy explenations, I guess I like chocolate... :huh:



I agree it's not definate proof, the fact that this matter has never really been dissolved... But I feel the whole scene was only there to make it plausible for Ginny to have seen Harry with the diary. So the plot device to get to this scene is not that important. I could be wrong off course, though I seldom am... :huh: :angel: :eyebrows: :evil: :p

True the main point of that scene is to show that Harry ended up with the diary and to let Ginny know that. But I find it interesting that JKR would have that happen over a Valentine. It could of happened any way. Harry's bag could have split open on its own while Ginny was in the hall with him and Malfoy grabs it. Or Ginny can see Harry with it in the Common Room. Why involve the Valentine? JKR just does not put things together without a reason. We already know that Ginny has a crush on Harry, why reiterate that? What is the purpose? There has always seemed that there was something more to this scence than just the diary. Which brings us back to who sent the Valentine?

MA: Did Ginny send Harry the valentine?

JKR: Yeah, bless her.

Hmmmm, savouring the moment... But too bad about the discussion, I did like it...

In Chamber of Secrets, Ginny was possessed by Lord Voldemort, so while she was writing that she might've just wrote "Dark Lord" because she was possessed by him. I think that Ginny did indeed write the valentine because even though she was possessed by LV, love overpowers him, so I guess if she had a serious crush on Harry, it would still be possible for her to like him even though she was taken over by Harry's one true rival.

I def think that Tom Riddle made her choose those choice of words...

People knew Voldemort was reffered to as the Dark Lord. Ginny probably was just tring to find rhyming words. I mean Voldemort, You-Know-Who, etc really don't rhyme with anything.

JKR answered this in the Book 6 interview, I believe. I'll just try to find the quote..
Here we are

MA: Did Ginny send Harry the valentine?

JKR: Yeah, bless her.

MA: Was it a Tom Riddle thing, or Ginny Weasley?

JKR: No, Ginny Weasley.

I always thought that Ginny had sent it. She did have a crush on Harry when she first got to Hogwarts, remember? And she was probably being possessed by Tom Riddle when she first wrote it. I could be totally wrong though, so feel free to agree or disagree.

Ginny definatly sent the valentine. The only reason that she probably put the Dark Lord is because it rhymed. Also, you-know-who is sort of hard to fit into rhythm.

wasn't it obvious that she sent the Valentine, since she was acting strange and blushing so badly?

Well I don't think it was "obvious" otherwise there wouldn't nine pages of discussion on this topic, I also think that some of us gave great agruments why it wasn't so obvious and could have been some else.

But it looks as though some of us (myself included and hotharry) simply over-analyzed this valentine and in the process stepped on Occam's Razor (for those of you unfamiliar with Occam's Razor it states "The simplest explanation is the best")

Nevertheless, it was a fun debate.

Wll since this has been settled I'm sending it over to History of Magic :)