What did Dumbledore help Flamel with?

I found the thread "How were Dumbledore and Flamel Partners?" thread and I think this is a little different.

We know that Dumbledore is 150 and Flamel is 666(I think thats right). So Flamel created the stone on his own. The chocolate frog cards said that Dumbledrore worked on alchemy with Flamel. So what were they working on? Maybe they were working on turning metals into gold, though I don't see Dumbledore as the type to try to find unlimited treasure. :angel: Of course that could be how come Hogwarts has enough money to run itself without having the kids pay tuition. :huh:

So what do you guys think Dumbledore and Flamel were working on in alchemy?

I think Flamel died when he was 666, because he was 665 in the book Hermione read to the boys in PS/SS ... well, at least in the movie (I haven't read the book yet!).

I think perhaps they were working on someway to help the school to sustain itself. I'm not sure which, though. Because if the students don't have to pay tuition (though they have to purchase their own robes and books, etc...) the money has to come somewhere, plus the Professors are paid as well, aren't they?

So, it would have to be somekind of invention/creation that would continue to allow Dumbledore and Flamel to rake in the cash. Or perhaps the school is paid for by the tax payers in the wizarding world. I'm not sure how private schools (and that's what I assume Hogwarts is in a way) are funded.

Jen
~*~

I've read several times that the kids don't have to pay tuition and I'm wondering where that comes from. Vernon said he wasn't going to pay for school and Harry was wondering where he would get the money. Hagrid took him to Gringotts to get the money. From all of that, I would deduce that the kids do have to pay tuition.

I assumed they didn't because we got to see the letter Harry got from Hogwarts and it didn't say anything about paying tuition.
(thanks JenTheWriter I've changed Flamel's age)

I assumed they didn't because we got to see the letter Harry got from Hogwarts and it didn't say anything about paying tuition.
(thanks JenTheWriter I've changed Flamel's age)
*~* I agree with that. . .i meann, why would u pay tuition if it wasn't mentioned?!? I think they did have to pay tuition, and that J.K. Rowling made an error in the Hogwarts letter harry got, by not including that detail! :eyebrows:

Hey
Just to remind you guys, this thread is about Dumbledore and Flamel. I'm pretty sure you can find a few other threads on Hogwarts tuition. :)

I assumed they didn't because we got to see the letter Harry got from Hogwarts and it didn't say anything about paying tuition.
(thanks JenTheWriter I've changed Flamel's age)

Not a problem! I'm glad I could help. It's the first time my minute knowledge of Harry Potter was useful to someone. lol

Hey
Just to remind you guys, this thread is about Dumbledore and Flamel. I'm pretty sure you can find a few other threads on Hogwarts tuition. :)

True, but a discussion of tuition sort of plays into the theme of the post. (correct me if I'm wrong, but...) Dumbledore and Flamel working together -- was it a project to sustain monies into Hogwarts.

Maybe they were working on turning metals into gold, though I don't see Dumbledore as the type to try to find unlimited treasure. Of course that could be how come Hogwarts has enough money to run itself without having the kids pay tuition.

So speculation about what they were working on leads to speculation if they were working together to help pay funds for Hogwarts.

I personally think they invented something that has it's everyday uses. You know like the guy/girl who invented that rubber thing that goes on the end of shoelaces. Perhaps Dumbledore and Flamel cooked up a coating for cauldrons, which would explain why Percy was doing a report on the coating being too thin. *shrugs*

Jen
~*~

I think Flamel died when he was 666, because he was 665 in the book Hermione read to the boys in PS/SS ... well, at least in the movie (I haven't read the book yet!).

The book Hermione referenced said Flamel would be turning 666, but it was described as a very old book. We are never told what Flamel's current age was.

Maybe they were working on turning metals into gold, though I don't see Dumbledore as the type to try to find unlimited treasure.
That could be done with the Philosopher's Stone. Flamel (the real life one) is known to have donated quite a bit of money in his life (for building churches and such), so the riches were associated with him long before Dumbledore makes his appearance in HP...and the two work together on some other alchemical project in the fantasy realm. Or, in JKR's world, maybe Flamel produced the first Stone on a fluke and wasn't able to produce another....He and Albus were trying to pin point what went right the first time (and what was going wrong on subsequent attempts). *shrug* I don't think there is enough information (at this time, at least) to figure out just what Flamel and Dumbledore worked on together.

Maybe Nicolas and Albus worked out the 12 uses of dragon's blood together and Flamel let Dumbledore take all the credit. (Doesn't seem in character for AD to do so, though.)

Originally posted by Nicole
That could be done with the Philosopher's Stone. Flamel (the real life one) is known to have donated quite a bit of money in his life (for building churches and such), so the riches were associated with him long before Dumbledore makes his appearance in HP...and the two work together on some other alchemical project in the fantasy realm. Or, in JKR's world, maybe Flamel produced the first Stone on a fluke and wasn't able to produce another....He and Albus were trying to pin point what went right the first time (and what was going wrong on subsequent attempts). *shrug* I don't think there is enough information (at this time, at least) to figure out just what Flamel and Dumbledore worked on together.

I was wondering what other alchemical things they could be working on together. The only things I can think of that real alchemists were concerned with was making gold and finding immortality. I'm sure it had to have something to do with the stone though. They could have been trying to reproduce the stone, I never thought about that,

The book Hermione referenced said Flamel would be turning 666, but it was described as a very old book. We are never told what Flamel's current age was.

Oh, wow, really? Dang. He could have been super old then. Could you imagine living over six hundred years? Yipes.

I think they might have been trying to find a way to help sustain the school. Or they might have been trying to find a way to help sustain the Order. Kind of a private funding for a secret operation to help with the bringing down of LV?

I believe the work Flamel and Dumbledore did together was before he was Headmaster...A;lso remembering that there was only the one Sourcer's Stnoe perhaps they were looking at other methods of prolonging life (remember the stone made an elixar that helped them live longer however when the stone was destroyed at the end of the book Flamel had enough for he and his wife to get their affairs in order so it was NOT to make people Immortal at one shot but to prolong life)



Additionally there are many more things to Alchemy than the Philosopher's Stone and the transformation of Lead and other ores into Gold

Alchemy is described as a form of chemistry & speculative philosophy. It's all about transformation. The possibilities are endless, but I suspect that what Dumbledore and Flamel were working on went far beyond changing metal to gold.

So what do you guys think Dumbledore and Flamel were working on in alchemy?
Harry.

And I suspect some of the kids pay tuition.

In order to create the SS/PS, they needed Alchemy. The SS/PS was able to give eternal life, as much gold as needed, and one other thing. I think this is what DD was helping him with, why else would he have asked DD to watch such a valuable item?

originally posted by marky mark
In order to create the SS/PS, they needed Alchemy. The SS/PS was able to give eternal life, as much gold as needed, and one other thing. I think this is what DD was helping him with, why else would he have asked DD to watch such a valuable item?

Flamel is at least 500 years older than Dumbledore so he had to have already created the stone. therefore Dumbledore couldn't have helped him with that.

whizbang121 what does Harry have to do with alchemy? I can't make that connection could you explain better?

Maybe Dumbledore and Flamel were working on some cure for Werewolves...but I don't remember anyone ever mentioning what Dumbledore was famous for except transfiguration...? and that McGonagal took over...He must have been good at Chemstry also...potions ...most principals were teachers before they took over the job...So maybe he had paid leave to study outside Hogwarts and that was when he spent time with Flamel. Was Flamel an old student? Definitely a college...possible he knew Griffindor's ancestors? He must be taking the potion...how could he live so long...Dumbledore's outlived average human time line...so is he also a patient? He must have helped make some for Flamel as they are old friends too.. Because didn't one need the stone to make it...and he had "just enough to set his affairs in order..."

Originally Posted by Nicole
Maybe Nicolas and Albus worked out the 12 uses of dragon's blood together and Flamel let Dumbledore take all the credit. (Doesn't seem in character for AD to do so, though.)
Yes I agree that it'd would be rather out of character for Dumbledore to take credit for somebody else's work.

However, I did wanted to ask if we know anything about the actual uses of the dragon blood. Do we know what the uses are for?

I'd really love to see what these two guys were up to. And I'd love to actually meet Nicolas Flamel.
I'd imagine that someone that has lived for so long has to be very wise and knowledgeable, and Dumbledore, despite being "young" compared to Flamel, is a very smart and powerful wizard himself. So, I guess that whatever they were working on must have been something quite outstanding and probably a bit out there :)

Maybe what they were working on had something to do with Grindelwald. But come to think about it, that's neither outsanding nor out there. It was probably a necesity to find a way to defeat Grindelwald during that time.

Hmm... now I really wish JK would write a Prequel on HP :D
Or at least a little bit more on Dumbledore's past that includes Flamel, of course.

Something Hagrid said hit a note..."it's between Dumbledore and Nickolus Flamel..." so did Hagrid ever "see" Flamel?

Oh, wow, really? Dang. He could have been super old then. Could you imagine living over six hundred years? Yipes.
But being a magic book, it might have updated Flamel's age every year. Just a thought.

However, I did wanted to ask if we know anything about the actual uses of the dragon blood. Do we know what the uses are for?

One of the uses is oven cleaner. I remember seeing the uses somewhere, but can't recall the source. I do recall the oven cleaner thing, though. Hard to forget that one. :eyebrows:

i think the ministry pays for the school because it's like public muggle school isn't it??? thats why there are school governers and things like that. Also, why Fudge CAN interfere though he didn't really until 5th year (at least not to much), also because he could put Umbridge in there couldn't he??? it wouldn't have been possible if the school wasn't run by the ministry

i think the ministry pays for the school because it's like public muggle school isn't it??? thats why there are school governers and things like that. Also, why Fudge CAN interfere though he didn't really until 5th year (at least not to much), also because he could put Umbridge in there couldn't he??? it wouldn't have been possible if the school wasn't run by the ministry
I know it's confusing sometimes, but "public" school in England is actually a "private" school. Students most likely have to pay tuition. The school governors, are DD's bosses, and also probably do things like fund-raise, establish scholarships, etc.

One of the uses is oven cleaner. I remember seeing the uses somewhere, but can't recall the source. I do recall the oven cleaner thing, though. Hard to forget that one. :eyebrows:
That was in an old interview. Let's see if I can find it for you.

Yes, since it is used in oven cleaner. Leave it to Dumbledore to discover something like that:
Flamel: I can't think of anything else we can do with this stuff. So 11 uses of Dragon's Blood then?
Dumbledore: Maybe not, it seems to eat away these stains and that scorching fairly well.
So we've probably seen it used before, Filch always has various cleaning chemicals. No wonder everyone in the Wizarding world knows Dumbledore, he's the guy on the Mr. Clean bottles!

Yes, here it it:
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-sfchronicle-chonin.html

Originally Posted by Desraelda
One of the uses is oven cleaner. I remember seeing the uses somewhere, but can't recall the source. I do recall the oven cleaner thing, though. Hard to forget that one.
Thank you! Oven cleaner? Oh my! Dumbledore is just awesome!

Originally Posted by Durandal
Yes, since it is used in oven cleaner. Leave it to Dumbledore to discover something like that:
Flamel: I can't think of anything else we can do with this stuff. So 11 uses of Dragon's Blood then?
Dumbledore: Maybe not, it seems to eat away these stains and that scorching fairly well.
So we've probably seen it used before, Filch always has various cleaning chemicals. No wonder everyone in the Wizarding world knows Dumbledore, he's the guy on the Mr. Clean bottles!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
That would be such a Dumbledore thing to do!
I'll actually post the quote here:

JKR Q&A
Q: What are the 12 uses for dragon's blood? -- Kelsey Biggar, age 9

A: I have a very good reason for not telling you -- the movie script writer wants me to give him that information for the film. But I can say that the 12th use is oven cleaner.

Right, so now I really want to know what the other eleven uses are. Grrr...
If she has a really good reason, then they're probably essential to the plot.

Do you think that Flamel and Dumbledore could have been working in a project that derived into the 12 uses for dragon blood?

I wonder if they worked in Nicolas Flamel's "lab" or if the "lab" was Dumbledore's.

It would also be great to know if they're still working on something together.

Hmm.... I really want and extended edition of all HP books :lol:

Dragons are often associated with snakes, which (especially in alchemy) were a symbol of rebirth or immortality
1: The shedding of the skin was seen as rebirth.
2: the alchemy symbol of the ourobourus which is a snake biting its tail and forming a circle which is a symbol of never ending life.
3: Two snakes twisted around a staff are a symbol of medicine.

Perhaps one use of dragon's blood is as an ingrediant to the philosopher's stone.
There is even a compound that alchemists used a lot called cinnabar (Mercury Sulfide)that was the color red (like the stone) it was nicknamed dragon's blood.

Alchemy was also the study of transmutation and purification of elements/chemicals and souls. They believed purification led to immortality.

All this is meaningless though if the stone was made before Dumbledore. Maybe Dumbledore just discovered the other eleven uses. I'll have to look it up to see what they say exactly. I'll also try to look up more on Flamel specifically.