Petunia Dursley aka There's Something About Aunt Petunia v3

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Nicole
May 14th, 2005, 2:17 pm
First discussion version 1 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20243)

Second discussion version 2 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=42215&page=1&pp=20)

A nice summary
1.) Petunia is, was, or will be magical.
a.) Petunia received a Hogwarts letter and for some reason did not go. This is highly unlikely as we know she is a muggle.
b.) Petunia went to Hogwarts but was kicked out at some point. Also highly unlikely: we know she's a muggle.
c.) Petunia is a witch and only pretends to be a muggle. This is impossible. So don't go off on this one.
d.) Petunia is a muggle, but she will do magic later in life, just once, under desperate circumstances. By far the most plausible theory in this section. Also, not mutually exclusive with other theories down the list.

2.) Petunia has a magical ancestor.
a.) One of her parents is a squib.
b.) One of her grandparents is a squib.
c.) While a muggle, Petunia (and also Lily, and thus Harry) is descended from none other than Godric Gryffindor.

3.) Petunia works as a spy for Dumbledore (i.e. she is one of his ties to the nonmagical world). If we keep going with this one (which is the newest theory), we come upon questions of how long Petunia has been doing this. Since before Lily died, or just after? Did she ever work in any way for the Order? (just to throw it out there)

4.) Petunia knows a lot more about the magical world than we realize.
a.) She and Lily talked more than we've been led to believe (and were in fact very close). Petunia has years of correspondence with Lily from when Lily was at Hogwarts (perhaps hidden in the creaky stair?).
b.) Dumbledore told her a lot in his letters. However, this is not a shocker and revealing it could not be considered shockingly indiscreet by any stretch of the imagination. Therefore I find this theory unlikely.
c.) Petunia had a wizard boyfriend, lover, or even husband. Perhaps he left her; perhaps he was killed by Death Eaters. In other words, something happened to make her hate magic and the magical world. Maybe marrying Vernon was a reaction?

5.) Petunia is not a witch, but she wishes she were. She was jealous of Lily and Lily's talent and jealous of the attention and love that they showered on Lily.
a.) Petunia's jealousy has over the years transformed into hate.
b.) Petunia doesn't actually hate the magical world after all, she just pretends to for Vernon's sake.


Please continue!

hartleytm
May 14th, 2005, 2:40 pm
Some people are saying that Petunia is a squib. However her parents were muggles, (Lily being a muggleborn) so she can not be a squib.

So, assuming that she is a muggle, her knowledge of the magical world shows that at some point she was in close contact/correspondence with a witch or wizard. We know that Dumbledore sends her letters, and that she shared a house with Lily when they were at school.
Plus when Voldemort was doing his reign of terror thing, Lily would have probably told her sister that she and James were in danger. After all, they were sisters and would tell one another about life threatening circumstances.
These would provide insight enough into the wizarding world to allow her to know what dementors are and who Voldemort is.

So JKR's quote could be, "Petunia is a muggle, but she knows a lot about the magical world."

As for Petunia suddenly discovering magical powers, well, that's a rather appalling introduction to the plot. Imagine, 5 books with no mention of anyone of showing magical powers after they are 11 (except for squibs, but she isn't a squib), then suddenly, muggles can show powers after 11.
In 5 years at Hogwarts has any student start school in any year other than the first year? No, so how can it be justified?
Looking from a literary point it is not a sound plot development. Thus I doubt that it will occur.

DarkSphynx
May 14th, 2005, 2:44 pm
Yay! A new thread! Here are the three most likely "but-" possibilities, IMO:

• Petunia is a Muggle, but- she wishes she was a witch.
• Petunia is a Muggle, but- she is involved with the magical world.
• Petunia is a Muggle, but- her ancestry is magical. (The Squiggle Theory)

I did some lengthy posts about this very near the end of the other thread, maybe I'll edit to include them.

exiguusmus
May 14th, 2005, 8:41 pm
I quite the idea that Petunia will do magic as a one-time deal, but I think that the ‘something about Petunia’ is that she has a magical ancestor, namely Godric Gryffindor.

Harry is a ‘true Gryffindor’ and I believe that his taking of Godric’s sword from the sorting hat, the location of his parents’ house when they died (Godric’s Hollow) and Dumbledore’s pronouncement that he is a ‘true Gryffindor’ point to the fact that he is descended from Godric Gryffindor. (As a side point, interestingly, although we have heard about several portraits in the Headmaster’s office, we haven’t yet seen any of the school’s founders – surely their portraits would feature on the walls of Dumbledore’s office. I wonder if we’ll see them in HBP.)

So, why do I think that Harry must be descended from Gryffindor on his mother’s side and not his father's? Well, because of the response JK gave when asked whether Petunia is a squib. She responded that Petunia is a muggle and that ‘she is not a squib, although that is a very good guess’. So, Petunia is a muggle and, as a muggle has no magical power. So what is Petunia if a squib is a ‘very good guess’? Well, a squib is a non-magical person, born to magical parents. We know that Harry’s mother was muggle born, so clearly Petunia is not a squib. This does not preclude Petunia and Lily from have magical persons in their ancestry, and having a magical ancestor, would certainly make guessing Petunia to be a squib a very good guess indeed.

It doesn’t automatically follow that the two theories are linked (nor IMO does it necessarily follow that Godric Gryffindor is the HBP, but that’s not a discussion for this thread), but in literary terms it makes sense, to me, that they are. We know that the cause of Gryffindor and Slytherin’s falling out was due to the acceptance of non-pure bloods to Hogwarts, so I believe it’s a logical progression to suggest that Gryffindor himself has half-blood or even muggle-born descendents. For me, these two theories dovetail nicely. If Petunia and Lily have magical ancestry, what would work better for the HP plot and as a literary device for that ancester to be Gryffindor himself?

codswallop
May 15th, 2005, 1:52 am
Yay! A new thread! Here are the three most likely "but-" possibilities, IMO:

• Petunia is a Muggle, but- she wishes she was a witch.
• Petunia is a Muggle, but- she is involved with the magical world.
• Petunia is a Muggle, but- her ancestry is magical. (The Squiggle Theory)
originally by Darksphynx

Here is my latest revision reasoning behind different theories
There are 3 prevailing theories.

Theory One - Muggle Period. She knows alot about the wizarding world be is, has been and will always be a muggle. The main source is the EBF quote in which the But is not taken as much meaning....

Pros:
In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

In COS, Harry describing his relatives as muggles. (weaker than the Hagrid & McGonagall's statement as it has been interpreted in different ways.)

Cons: The But in the EBF.


Possible muggle but scenerios:

Petunia is a Muggle, but- she wishes she was a witch.
- she is involved with the magical world.
- her ancestry is magical. (The Squiggle Theory)
- she was raised by wizards


Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR website News Section EBF
Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.



Theory Two- Petunia is the lateblooming witch based on this quote:


Quote:
Ahhh! I loved the event at Anderson's. It was one of my favorites. That is completely true. No, is the answer. In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.

In addition, people who subscribe to this theory interpret the But from the EBF as meaning more than those who subscribe to Theory One.

Pros -
Tonks saying the house was too clean. (unnatural)

Moody telling Uncle Vernon What he does not know that occurs in his
home could fill books.

The fact that she knew both what dementors were and the name of the wizard prison.

The understanding between her and Harry in regards to YKW

Multiple correspondences with DD



Cons -

"Quite late in life" Although this is my favorite theory, Petunia does
not seem old enough to fit this catagory.

In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

The jealous sister speach

Theory Three - Petunia is a witch ....

Pros-Some of the same Pros for this as the Late-Blooming witch.
Interpret EBF But as a major clue.

A Fidelius Charm has been suggested. (Petunia is always described as hiding behind Vernon when other W/W are around....for fear of being recognized?)

The Creevy brothers are muggle-born and are an example of both siblings being magical.

The DD quote about it being our choices rather than are abilities. (Petunia chose life as a muggle.)

The address 4 Privet Dr., suggests maybe private or privacy, perhaps someone is hiding. Hagrid's quote about made to live as a muggle....

Cons- There is not alot of concrete information to support this theory:

the most speculative of the three theories because there are some sigificant details that would have to be in place.

In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

The jealous sister speach

Some variations of this theory:

petunia is a witch who

chose to live as a muggle
got expelled from Hogwarts-so cannot be a witch
did not complete Hogwarts for another reason
is hiding as a muggle




[

HedwigOwl
May 15th, 2005, 3:03 am
So, why do I think that Harry must be descended from Gryffindor on his mother’s side and not his father's? Well, because of the response JK gave when asked whether Petunia is a squib. She responded that Petunia is a muggle and that ‘she is not a squib, although that is a very good guess’. So, Petunia is a muggle and, as a muggle has no magical power. So what is Petunia if a squib is a ‘very good guess’? Well, a squib is a non-magical person, born to magical parents. We know that Harry’s mother was muggle born, so clearly Petunia is not a squib. This does not preclude Petunia and Lily from have magical persons in their ancestry, and having a magical ancestor, would certainly make guessing Petunia to be a squib a very good guess indeed.

I agree that Harry may be descended from Gryffindor on his mother's side.

I've also long been intrigued by JKR's comment that Harry is considered a half-blood because of Lily's grandparents. If Lily's parents were muggles, why wouldn't she just say "because of Lily's parents"? Could her grandparents have been squibs? Does that mean children in that line can be either muggle or magic? (like Petunia & Lily?)

codswallop
May 15th, 2005, 3:13 am
I agree that Harry may be descended from Gryffindor on his mother's side.

I've also long been intrigued by JKR's comment that Harry is considered a half-blood because of Lily's grandparents. If Lily's parents were muggles, why wouldn't she just say "because of Lily's parents"? Could her grandparents have been squibs? Does that mean children in that line can be either muggle or magic? (like Petunia & Lily?)


I also think there may be a lot a validity to Griffindor from mother's side. I wonder if this somehow connects to the fact that YKW says....Your Mother needn't have died...

From the grandparents quote: One was magical, one was muggle, parents were both squibs????? Kinda far fetched but only logical scenario to me....

AngiePangie
May 15th, 2005, 3:17 am
I have my own theory on Aunt Petunia/the Evans family. It is my belief that though Aunt Petunia is a muggle, and Lilly was muggle born, the Evans family does have a magical backround.

We know that Salazar Slytherin had/has an heir in LV, the other founders of Hogwarts likely have descendants too. I think that the Evans family was descended from Godric Gryffindor. That one of his descendants had a squib child, who married a muggle and had muggle children (I mean if a squib married a muggle, and had non-magical children I'm assuming they would be considered muggles rather than squibs, at the very least if their line continued to be non magical they would eventually be considered muggles even if they had orignially decended from magical ansestors). Eventually this ended up as the Evans family, who knew of thier magical background, and is why the where so pleased to have a witch in the family.

Imagine it, little Lilly and Petunia (whom I've always assumed was the older sister) hearing stories as children about thier magical ansestors, and Hogwarts. And then viola, Lilly is a witch and gets accepted to Hogwarts. This would probably make Petunia very jelous. Added on to that the fact that her parets where so pleased, Lilly probably got lots of extra attention while she was home from Hogwarts.

So to shield herself from the pain she was feeling she begins to think of Lilly and the whole wizzarding community as freaks, starts to resent her sister for what she is. My guess is that she is, deep down, highly facinated with the wizzarding world and sorely wishes she were a part of it, but since she isn't she renounces it alltogether. She is also jelous of Harry's magical ability so she tried to stamp it out of him. Probably explains why she married that huge windbag Vernon as well (cause really, why would you want to do that?).

There is a reason I think that Harry was descended from Godric, instead of, well any old wizzarding family. He was able to pull Godric's sword out of the sorting hat. Dumbledore tells Harry when he is unsure that he really belongs in Gryffindor house in CoS:

"Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry."

Now at first I took this to mean that Harry truly belonged to Gryffindor house, as Harry did as well. But what if there was more to Dumbledore's meaning than meets the eye (which certainly wouldn't be unheard of). Personally I think it means that Harry has Gryffindor blood in him.

ComicBookWorm
May 15th, 2005, 3:51 am
Have you seen my post on this Gryffindor as HBP and Harry as Heir (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237)

daniel2099
May 15th, 2005, 6:01 am
I think this will last till book 7
then aunt p talls all
we may get more info but I don't think
we get all the ansers yet

AngiePangie
May 15th, 2005, 6:09 am
Have you seen my post on this Gryffindor as HBP and Harry as Heir (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237)

No, I hadn't, thank you for linking it. Very interesting reading, you brought up alot of things I hadn't noticed before, like the stuff about Gocrics sword. *runs off in search of a Gryffindor's heir thread*

codswallop
May 15th, 2005, 6:15 am
Have you seen my post on this Gryffindor as HBP and Harry as Heir (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237)

What is most compelling to me is your assertion that because Petunia maybe the Griffindor Heir, that is why she is in DD protection. The "4 Privet Dr" address has always made me believe Petunia was hiding. The reason is the question at hand, and Petunia being an heir to Griffindor would be an excellant reason.

ComicBookWorm
May 15th, 2005, 6:48 am
No, I hadn't, thank you for linking it. Very interesting reading, you brought up alot of things I hadn't noticed before, like the stuff about Gocrics sword. *runs off in search of a Gryffindor's heir thread*
That Link was from the gryffindor heir thread. :D

What is most compelling to me is your assertion that because Petunia maybe the Griffindor Heir, that is why she is in DD protection. The "4 Privet Dr" address has always made me believe Petunia was hiding. The reason is the question at hand, and Petunia being an heir to Griffindor would be an excellant reason.
I think it would explain why Petunia would shut up so quickly when Dumbledore said "Remember my last." If his last was an explanation of why they needed protection and how Harry afforded that protection, then she would quickly be more compliant.

The squiggle idea can still work, but I think that squib is farther back in the ancestry, where they might not even remember. Otherwise others would know about it and they don't seem to.

SiriusMuggle
May 15th, 2005, 7:24 am
Wow, ok, I have a lot of thoughts swirling in my head and trying to organize them is not happening for me ;)

JK Rowling stated that nearly all witches/wizards show magical ability by age 11; therefore, we must assume that Lily probably did some amazing things as a child. If her parents were aware of the magical world, then they were probably braggin on Lily long before the letter from Hogwarts ever came, thus creating animosity between Lily and Petunia from the get-go. If the Evans' weren't aware of the magical world and came to accept it after Lily's acceptance to Hogwarts, then it would stand to reason that Lily's demonstrations of magic as a child were looked upon as "freakish" by Petunia all along.

Voldemort said that Lily didn't have to die; he was after Harry because Harry is the one mentioned in the prophecy; it was probably a situation of Voldemort telling Lily to hand the baby over to him and there wouldn't be any problems, however, if she continued to refuse him then she would meet her death and he'd get the baby anyway, of course, Voldemort didn't realize that Harry would defeat him.

I'm in line with the theory that Petunia and Lily are descended from Godric Gryffindor, knew of their ancestry and the magical world; the fact that Petunia was muggle and Lily became a witch complicated matters on a personal note between the sisters. I believe that Petunia is muggle and wishes she were a witch, and that she has much more involvement in the magical community than Vernon realizes, but only has that involvement because of her commitment to care for Harry. I think that Petunia created the hatred of the wizarding community in Vernon because of her jealousy of Lily; had it not been for Petunia, how else would Vernon know to hate wizards? Petunia created the monster in Vernon (and ultimately Dudley) herself because of her jealousy not realizing that in the near future her sister and brother-in-law would die and she'd be the one to have to take care of their child, Harry - thus, this hatred she embedded in Vernon backfired because now they housed the very element of which their hatred (and her jealousy) was born.

Ok folks, that's my $0.02...

ComicBookWorm
May 15th, 2005, 7:25 am
That completely works.

ravenclaw_rox
May 15th, 2005, 8:31 am
:???

ComicBookWorm
May 15th, 2005, 8:39 am
:???
Hi. Welcome to the forum :welcome:

I suggest just sitting back and reading some of the threads to get an idea of what is being said. Then you will be able to contribute more to the conversation. That's what I did when I first came her. I must have read most of the threads for a couple of weeks before jumping in.

AnAdult
May 16th, 2005, 4:20 am
I'm NEW welcome ME!

ComicBookWorm
May 16th, 2005, 4:41 am
Of course. :welcome:

missypotter
May 16th, 2005, 5:16 am
It seems too simple to have the whole thing about sibling rivalry. I agree with the GG ancestry, but there is something about Petunia. In OoTP there are soo many comments made about her home that tie in with her having some kind of powers. I just have to think she is magical on some level. :huh:

codswallop
May 16th, 2005, 5:54 am
Have you seen my post on this Gryffindor as HBP and Harry as Heir

Squiggle Theory:
I am intrigued by the theory that Harry is related to GG through Aunt Petunia. But would be more intrigued if SS's brother was a squib and Petunia was a descendant of him. I am thinking if YKW dies, Harry would be both the Heir to S & G. And would still make a reason for Petunia to be in hiding.


This theory is based on:

JKR limited her comments on the relationship btw Harry & YKW to "close relative"

The Sorting Hat debating where to put Harry
If he is the Griffindor Heir is their a debate?
He obviously is not a pureblood?

Other thoughts:

Why in OOP, when the Order wants to talk to Harry's Aunt & Uncle is there no interaction between Petunia and the Order?

Odd if you ask me....

ComicBookWorm
May 16th, 2005, 6:05 am
Voldemort is the last heir/descendant of Slytherin. Harry or Petunia or anyone else besides Voldemort cannot be related.

codswallop
May 16th, 2005, 6:10 am
Voldemort is the last heir/descendant of Slytherin. Harry or Petunia or anyone else besides Voldemort cannot be related.


They can not be directly related, hence descendant....For example I am related to the brother of John Wilkes Booth....I am not a descendant of him but still related.

Griffindor Heir seems more likely but I am not conceding it.

CBW--What is your opinion on the sorting hat....

ComicBookWorm
May 16th, 2005, 6:46 am
First the soring hat didn't mention Slytherin until Harry brought it up. Harry was thinking "not Slytherin" so the hat addressed the issue. Second Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry via the scar so that would have been somewhat confusing as well. Also, I think Harry's concern about belonging in Slytherin was a bit of misdirection so that when Dumbledore tells Harry that only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword from the hat, we think it means house designation instead of true heritage.

WhoAmI
May 17th, 2005, 7:17 pm
Squiggle Theory:
I am intrigued by the theory that Harry is related to GG through Aunt Petunia. But would be more intrigued if SS's brother was a squib and Petunia was a descendant of him. I am thinking if YKW dies, Harry would be both the Heir to S & G. And would still make a reason for Petunia to be in hiding.Count me in as another who believes it possible that Harry is a "true Gryffindor" - related to GG through his mother's family rather than his father's. I'm still unsure whether the Evans family knew of their magical heritage. I would like to point out, however, that if SS had a squib brother & Petunia is a descendant of the brother, then Lily should be a descendant also, right? Or how about this... if old wizarding families are intermingled through marriage, what if Harry is actually related to all the Hogwarts founders? Sorry, I'm babbling again. Anyway, I think it's likely there is a magical connection somewhere in the Evans family tree, whether or not the current generation knows it. (But I suspect she knows now, even if she didn't always know!)

HedwigOwl
May 18th, 2005, 6:02 am
Count me in as another who believes it possible that Harry is a "true Gryffindor" - related to GG through his mother's family rather than his father's. I'm still unsure whether the Evans family knew of their magical heritage. I would like to point out, however, that if SS had a squib brother & Petunia is a descendant of the brother, then Lily should be a descendant also, right? Or how about this... if old wizarding families are intermingled through marriage, what if Harry is actually related to all the Hogwarts founders? Sorry, I'm babbling again. Anyway, I think it's likely there is a magical connection somewhere in the Evans family tree, whether or not the current generation knows it. (But I suspect she knows now, even if she didn't always know!)

The Evans family is not connected to Slytherin. JKR's quote from her website, Rumours section (bolding is mine):

Voldemort is Harry's real father/grandfather/close relative of some description
No, no, no, no, no. You lot have been watching much too much Star Wars. James is DEFINITELY Harry's father. Doesn't everybody Harry meets say 'you look just like your father'? And hasn't Dumbledore already told Harry that Voldemort is the last surviving descendent of Salazar Slytherin? Just to clarify - this means that Harry is NOT a descendent of Salazar Slytherin.

codswallop
May 19th, 2005, 2:41 am
The Evans family is not connected to Slytherin. JKR's quote from her website, Rumours section (bolding is mine):

Voldemort is Harry's real father/grandfather/close relative of some description
No, no, no, no, no. You lot have been watching much too much Star Wars. James is DEFINITELY Harry's father. Doesn't everybody Harry meets say 'you look just like your father'? And hasn't Dumbledore already told Harry that Voldemort is the last surviving descendent of Salazar Slytherin? Just to clarify - this means that Harry is NOT a descendent of Salazar Slytherin.


I have read this quote too.... why did she bother to say close relative. Why didn't she say He is in no way related to Voldemort.

Theory one: You are correct. It means nothing....Voldemort and Harry are not related

Theory two: GG and SS were related so saying close relative of some kind is an important clue.

Theory three: Squib brother. Lets say SS had a brother who was a squib. And this brother had children, this would not trace back to SS but to SS's parents, and close relative has meaning.


On another note, I was rereading the opening chapters of OOP, and I came accrossed the part where Petunia & Vernon are watching TV and Harry is listening to them talk....

oop pg 4 American
...then a famous actress divorce from her famous husband ("as if we're interested in their sordid affairs" sniffed Aunt Petunia who had followed the case obsessively in every magazine she could get her bony hands on)

Why is this important. I think JKR is trying to give us some insight into Petunia.

Hypocrisy, there is only her and Vernon in the room. She is leading a double Life saying one thing and doing another. Why make the comment? What do you think>

The Pirate King
May 19th, 2005, 2:51 am
Well, JKR has said (through Sirius Black) that all the old wizarding families are interrelated if you go back far enough--that they had to intermarry to keep the bloodlines from dying out. If you take that as a given, then Harry is probably *very* distantly related to Salazar Slytherin--but no more so than the son or daughter of any given full-blood or part-blood wizarding family in Britain. In other words, Harry's discovery that S. Slytherin was a distant great-great-great-great-etc. uncle sixteen times removed, or some such, would not be of much consequence to the storyline if most or all of the pure-blooded kids could make the same or similar claims.

codswallop
May 19th, 2005, 3:35 am
Well, JKR has said (through Sirius Black) that all the old wizarding families are interrelated if you go back far enough--that they had to intermarry to keep the bloodlines from dying out. If you take that as a given, then Harry is probably *very* distantly related to Salazar Slytherin--but no more so than the son or daughter of any given full-blood or part-blood wizarding family in Britain. In other words, Harry's discovery that S. Slytherin was a distant great-great-great-great-etc. uncle sixteen times removed, or some such, would not be of much consequence to the storyline if most or all of the pure-blooded kids could make the same or similar claims.

Your point about bloodlines is what I thought....He probably has to be related to most witches and wizards on some level.


The only reason I think it might be of any importance is that is Harry kills Voldemort, he becomes the Heir of Slytherin, and since I already think he is the Heir of Griffindor, this will somehow bring peace to the Witches and Wizards everyway. Or at least that's my theory today....

ComicBookWorm
May 19th, 2005, 4:32 am
He can't become the heir of Slytherin because Voldemort is the last heir of Slytherin.

codswallop
May 19th, 2005, 4:47 am
He can't become the heir of Slytherin because Voldemort is the last heir of Slytherin.


He is the last direct heir. If a King dies and has no offspring, his next oldest sibling is usually the heir. What if his next oldest sibling is deceased but the sibling has children. Usually the oldest child of the sibling would be the heir to the thrown....

ComicBookWorm
May 19th, 2005, 5:20 am
He is the last direct heir. If a King dies and has no offspring, his next oldest sibling is usually the heir. What if his next oldest sibling is deceased but the sibling has children. Usually the oldest child of the sibling would be the heir to the thrown....
Last heir means last heir, not last direct heir. No more heirs.

HedwigOwl
May 19th, 2005, 5:26 am
I have read this quote too.... why did she bother to say close relative.

JKR never said "close relative" -- that was a paraphrase of questions on that topic that people kept asking her. Those were others' words, not JKR's. Again, JRK said: Just to clarify - this means that Harry is NOT a descendent of Salazar Slytherin.

codswallop
May 19th, 2005, 6:00 am
JKR never said "close relative" -- that was a paraphrase of questions on that topic that people kept asking her. Those were others' words, not JKR's. Again, JRK said: Just to clarify - this means that Harry is NOT a descendent of Salazar Slytherin.

Once again, Descendant and related are two different things....

I think CBW has a great argument for Harry being relate through Petunia to GG, I am just not ruling the other out. I think either side GG(most likely) or SS, there is an important squib somewhere. (If SS, it has to be a sibling.)

On the other hand, I do think JKR is trying to make a point by having entire families die out (pure bloodest) like the Blacks and Crouch, so I am willing to concede the point....

On another note, I was rereading the opening chapters of OOP, and I came accrossed the part where Petunia & Vernon are watching TV and Harry is listening to them talk....


Quote:
oop pg 4 American
...then a famous actress divorce from her famous husband ("as if we're interested in their sordid affairs" sniffed Aunt Petunia who had followed the case obsessively in every magazine she could get her bony hands on)

Why is this important. I think JKR is trying to give us some insight into Petunia.

Hypocrisy, there is only her and Vernon in the room. She is leading a double Life saying one thing and doing another. Why make the comment? What do you think>

WhoAmI
May 19th, 2005, 5:22 pm
I just think it shows Petunia is a hypocrite. She says she isn't interested in famous folks' "sordid affairs" but follows them obsessively. She says she hates the wizarding world & thinks they are "freaks" but sure does seem to know an awful lot about them. Bet she follows those happenings just as obsessively, if a little more secretively.

codswallop
May 20th, 2005, 12:01 am
I just had an epithany. In PS/SS, Petunia had a friend named yvonne. We have not heard anything from Yvonne since PS/SS, so unlike JKR, YVONNE is and anagram for "no envy". I wonder if Yvonne has a magical sibling also.....

SiriusMuggle
May 20th, 2005, 7:13 am
I just think it shows Petunia is a hypocrite. She says she isn't interested in famous folks' "sordid affairs" but follows them obsessively. She says she hates the wizarding world & thinks they are "freaks" but sure does seem to know an awful lot about them. Bet she follows those happenings just as obsessively, if a little more secretively.

I think the key thing about Petunia, and this goes back to sibling rivalry - JEALOUSY. She doesn't truly thing the wizarding world is freakish - she's just mad that she can't be/isn't a part of it like Lily was; she probably wishes she had the kind of fame, power, and fortune that comes with celebrity. Most of the time jealousy results in hypocrisy in vain attempts to conceal the true desire of the envious person. Secretly, an envious person follows every detail about the thing they claim to be against because secretly they want to be like that person/thing!

Rigel
May 20th, 2005, 7:29 am
Well hello everyone here is my theory on this...

Petunia ay have wizard blood but she is a muggle. She was a muggle and she will stay that way. But there's also the secret love charm you know that protects Harry in Privet Drive. This brings about the question...

Can Petunia be a witch.
- The charm works on her blood although we are not sure about the details. She doesn't show much love to Harry or does she in secret? nah...
- She is TOO related with the wizarding world... "Remember my last Petunia" not Mrs. Dursley... Petunia. Which brings the theory can Petunia have known DD?
- Petunia dislikes magic because maybe at some point in her life she was HURT by it...

All of these related... Last theory... Petunia has magic blood , but can't perform it... due to the one of the below facts..
1- She didn't go to Hogwarts( simply impossible , Lily's parents were proud to send their child to Hogwrts... Petunia would have gone too.
2- She is something like a minor Squib..(which is the best)

so awaiting your comments...

ComicBookWorm
May 20th, 2005, 8:03 am
JKR said she wasn't a squib and that she was a muggle.

Rigel
May 20th, 2005, 8:10 am
That kind of settles it... How about the wizard blood in ancestry idea.. and the Dumbledore theory?

ComicBookWorm
May 20th, 2005, 8:29 am
That kind of settles it... How about the wizard blood in ancestry idea.. and the Dumbledore theory?
I think there is wizard ancestry, and that's the big thing we are going to learn about Lily. I think they are descended from Gryffindor so that even Petunia and Dudley are non-magical heirs of Gryffindor. And this is what Dumbledore is holding over them. Even though they are non-magical they are in some jeopardy since they are heirs. And as long as Harry lives with them they are protected by the ancient magic.

codswallop
May 20th, 2005, 10:38 am
That kind of settles it... How about the wizard blood in ancestry idea.. and the Dumbledore theory?


JKR says she is a muggle but....People have interpreted this differently.....

Theory One - Muggle Period. She knows alot about the wizarding world be is, has been and will always be a muggle. The main source is the EBF quote in which the But is not taken as much meaning....

Pros:
In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

In COS, Harry describing his relatives as muggles. (weaker than the Hagrid & McGonagall's statement as it has been interpreted in different ways.)

Cons: The But in the EBF.


Possible muggle but scenerios:

Petunia is a Muggle, but- she wishes she was a witch.
- she is involved with the magical world.
- her ancestry is magical. (The Squiggle Theory)
- she was raised by wizards


Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR website News Section EBF
Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet



Theory Two- Petunia is the lateblooming witch based on this quote:


Quote:
Ahhh! I loved the event at Anderson's. It was one of my favorites. That is completely true. No, is the answer. In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.

In addition, people who subscribe to this theory interpret the But from the EBF as meaning more than those who subscribe to Theory One.

Pros -
Tonks saying the house was too clean. (unnatural)

Moody telling Uncle Vernon What he does not know that occurs in his
home could fill books.

The fact that she knew both what dementors were and the name of the wizard prison.

The understanding between her and Harry in regards to YKW

Multiple correspondences with DD



Cons -

"Quite late in life" Although this is my favorite theory, Petunia does
not seem old enough to fit this catagory.

In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

The jealous sister speach

Theory Three - Petunia is a witch
Pros-Some of the same Pros for this as the Late-Blooming witch.
Interpret EBF But as a major clue.

A Fidelius Charm has been suggested. (Petunia is always described as hiding behind Vernon when other W/W are around....for fear of being recognized?)

The Creevy brothers are muggle-born and are an example of both siblings being magical.

The DD quote about it being our choices rather than are abilities. (Petunia chose life as a muggle.)

The address 4 Privet Dr., suggests maybe private or privacy, perhaps someone is hiding. Hagrid's quote about made to live as a muggle....

Cons- There is not alot of concrete information to support this theory:

the most speculative of the three theories because there are some sigificant details that would have to be in place.

In PS/SS, McGonagall and Hagrid describing Petunia as a muggle.

The jealous sister speach

Some variations of this theory:

petunia is a witch who

chose to live as a muggle
got expelled from Hogwarts-so cannot be a witch
did not complete Hogwarts for another reason
is hiding as a muggle

ComicBookWorm
May 20th, 2005, 10:47 am
On the idea that Petunia was a witch who was expelled or didn't attend Hogwarts, other than the house being clean, we have no evidence. I've personally known muggles with unnaturally clean houses. It does say something about their characters which is what JKR was trying to convey.

We have no evidence for someone giving up magic or having it removed from them so that they could be called a muggle. In fact one would assume that this would be an excellent potential punishment. Even Hagrid who was expelled from Hogwarts under the assumption that a dangerous animal he brought into the school resulted in a death, did not have his magic removed even though he was forbidden to use magic.

He did not become a muggle even though he didn't use his magic. A witch that didn't go to Hogwarts would be an untrained witch with minimal skills. Hogwarts just teaches them how to focus and utilize their skills, it doesn't change the fact that they are magical or not.

codswallop
May 20th, 2005, 10:56 am
On the idea that Petunia was a witch who was expelled or didn't attend Hogwarts, other than the house being clean, we have no evidence. I've personally known muggles with unnaturally clean houses. It does say something about their characters which is what JKR was trying to convey.

We have no evidence for someone giving up magic or having it removed from them so that they could be called a muggle. In fact one would assume that this would be an excellent potential punishment. Even Hagrid who was expelled from Hogwarts under the assumption that a dangerous animal he brought into the school resulted in a death, did not have his magic removed even though he was forbidden to use magic.

He did not become a muggle even though he didn't use his magic. A witch that didn't go to Hogwarts would be an untrained witch with minimal skills. Hogwarts just teaches them how to focus and utilize their skills, it doesn't change the fact that they are magical or not.



There is some evidence, Hagrid talking about being made to live as a muggle...
Moody's quote in OOP that he could write a book about things that go on in Dursley's house that he does not know about....What could that possible be, I think it is Petunia's folly.....I am on the other side of this issue, I do not believe that we have enough evidence to rule anything out, BUT leaves us some room to speculate....

ComicBookWorm
May 20th, 2005, 11:07 am
Live as a muggle, not become a muggle. And Moody's comment could just mean the nastiness that Dudley exhibits out of their sight. I think that what we have are a couple of ambiguous statements that can be looked at different ways. I will be very surprised if Petunia turns out to be anything more than a muggle with some knowledge of the wizarding world from living for seven years with her sister, a person consumed with resentment and jealousy.

Gryffindor heritage would be an interesting addition, but it isn't certain.

codswallop
May 20th, 2005, 11:23 am
Live as a muggle, not become a muggle. And Moody's comment could just mean the nastiness that Dudley exhibits out of their sight. I think that what we have are a couple of ambiguous statements that can be looked at different ways. I will be very surprised if Petunia turns out to be anything more than a muggle with some knowledge of the wizarding world from living for seven years with her sister, a person consumed with resentment and jealousy.

Gryffindor heritage would be an interesting addition, but it isn't certain.


I just do not think Moody would be referring to Dudley, it would not make sense, I do not think Dudley's actions are that important to an outsider to mention them. Too many things are amiss. The theme of choices rather than ability. Even with exposure to Lilly remembering the name Azkaban after so many years is very suspiciuos. Petunia behaves very suspiciously. She is obviously hiding something, Griffindor heir, could definitely be a answer to these unanswered questions. Jealously can only take you so far, but to obsession, I do not think so....I do not even think Petunia is as bitter as say Snape....


I do think because JKR said that she considered using this opening in several books, we will get our answer in book 6. As openings usually contain information about the Dursley's, I think we will get our answer regarding Petunia. In OOP, JKR prepped us with more information regarding suspicion around Petunia than she did in the first 4 books combined.

juliweasley
May 20th, 2005, 4:36 pm
I haven't read all this thread but I figured I'd put my two knuts in about the last few posts.

1. Moody said that what Vernon was "not aware of could fill several books". He meant it in general, not just about the goings on in his house.
2. Petunia is a muggle, not a squib, or a witch.I beleive Jo has clarified that. People just speculated that the quote was about her, it could be Dudley, Mrs. Figg or even Filch (my guess)
3.As CBW said, and I on another thread; super-cleanliness is very common among Muggle housewives. My friends have two extremes Slob-like me; or Neat-freak like Petunia.
Perhaps Lilys house-elf went to serve her only relative and keep an eye on HArry though?
I believe Petunia's treatment of Harry has actually aided him in his 'adventures'. He can handle bullies, lack of food, being locked up, and looked down on. He is psychologically stronger than the average kid, and has learned to make the most of what he has.

codswallop
May 20th, 2005, 9:45 pm
I haven't read all this thread but I figured I'd put my two knuts in about the last few posts.

1. Moody said that what Vernon was "not aware of could fill several books". He meant it in general, not just about the goings on in his house.
2. Petunia is a muggle, not a squib, or a witch.I beleive Jo has clarified that. People just speculated that the quote was about her, it could be Dudley, Mrs. Figg or even Filch (my guess)
3.As CBW said, and I on another thread; super-cleanliness is very common among Muggle housewives. My friends have two extremes Slob-like me; or Neat-freak like Petunia.
Perhaps Lilys house-elf went to serve her only relative and keep an eye on HArry though?
I believe Petunia's treatment of Harry has actually aided him in his 'adventures'. He can handle bullies, lack of food, being locked up, and looked down on. He is psychologically stronger than the average kid, and has learned to make the most of what he has.


It is the way Petunia is described as a neat freak, not that she is a neat freak that is concerning.

juliweasley
May 20th, 2005, 9:59 pm
As my 13 year old puts it-OCD

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder fits right into Petunia's personality. Super cleanliness in varying degrees is probably one of the most common forms.

Then there's always my house-elf theory;)

Discordia
May 20th, 2005, 10:01 pm
Aunt Petunia is truly a muggle, but there is "a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye." "She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet." [Read the exact quote from Edinburgh Book Festival, 2004 (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80)]
Does that mean Petunia really is something? Or does Rowling mean her relationship with Dumbledore?

omnedon11
May 20th, 2005, 10:29 pm
JKR said that Petunia is a "muggle, but". I think the but is "capable of performing magic under certain conditions".

We know Harry survived because of Lily's sacrifice. DD set up magical protection (possibly a charm?) based on blood to protect Harry. He has to spend one day a year in Petunia's house to maintain the protection because Petunia is Harry's only living blood relative.

If Petunia's family is threatened, can the protective magic allow Petunia to use magic to defend her family? :eyebrows:

I think DD's howler had such a profound affect on Petunia is that she was reminded that the protection extended to all her family and she would lose all of it if she allowed Vernon to kick Harry out.

exiguusmus
May 20th, 2005, 10:32 pm
JKR said that Petunia is a "muggle, but". I think the but is "capable of performing magic under certain conditions".

In the same response, she also goes onto say that a squib is a very good guess. That's what leads me to follow the magical ancestor theory.

Redtop4
May 21st, 2005, 12:14 am
Whether Petunia and Lily are related to GG I don't know but it's possible!

JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle and not a squib...but...has it been said anywhere that being a muggle means you cannot practice magic?

What if DD has allowed Petunia (as a wannabee) some magically skills to keep her 'sweet' and look after Harry? What if she keeps up with the Wizarding world by reading things such as the Daily Prophet, etc., or maybe she has some of Lily’s old books? We already know that magic can be practiced without a wand, although it would not be powerful magic.

As for someone acquiring magically abilities later on in life....well....what if this is Dudley? I mean, how late is late? Is it five years or twenty five years? There's no reason why he would not have the same chance of being magical as Harry, even more so if Petunia and Lilly are related to GG. It could be possible that Petunia has been preventing Dudley from showing his true abilities by either practicing magic OR with the help of DD?

I remember Hagrid asking Harry in PS/SS if he had ever made things happen when angry (before age 11 and joining Hogwarts). Well...maybe this is why Petunia and Vernon go so so out of their way to keep Dudley happy? To prevent any magically ability appearing. Also, I'm sure I've read that Harry will at some stage get back at Dudley and what better way than being a famous and powerful wizard when Dudley discovers his magically ability and yet not be very good!

exiguusmus
May 21st, 2005, 12:17 am
I remember Hagrid asking Harry in PS/SS if he had ever made things happen when angry (before age 11 and joining Hogwarts). Well...maybe this is why Petunia and Vernon go so so out of their way to keep Dudley happy? To prevent any magically ability appearing. Also, I'm sure I've read that Harry will at some stage get back at Dudley and what better way than being a famous and powerful wizard when Dudley discovers his magically ability and yet not be very good!
Well, JK has ruled this one out herself. She has said about Dudley 'What you see is what you get. I am happy to say that he is definitely a character without much back story. He is just Dudley.'

Redtop4
May 21st, 2005, 12:23 am
Well, JK has ruled this one out herself. She has said about Dudley 'What you see is what you get. I am happy to say that he is definitely a character without much back story. He is just Dudley.'

Oh...what a bummer!

Edit: slang for disappointing; just thought I'd clarify for those not familiar with the meaning of this phrase!

nic_c
May 21st, 2005, 12:29 am
It could always be Filtch that gains magic late in life. He did have the leaflets about teaching squibs some magic. I like the idea though that Petunia could be a witch. I could explain a lot of things, like why she hates Harry going to Hogwarts.

HedwigOwl
May 21st, 2005, 12:55 am
JKR said that Petunia is a "muggle, but". I think the but is "capable of performing magic under certain conditions".

We know Harry survived because of Lily's sacrifice. DD set up magical protection (possibly a charm?) based on blood to protect Harry. He has to spend one day a year in Petunia's house to maintain the protection because Petunia is Harry's only living blood relative.

If Petunia's family is threatened, can the protective magic allow Petunia to use magic to defend her family? :eyebrows:

I think DD's howler had such a profound affect on Petunia is that she was reminded that the protection extended to all her family and she would lose all of it if she allowed Vernon to kick Harry out.

I partly agree -- I also think that the charm protecting Harry when he's in Petunia's home extends to Petunia & Dudley since they're the same blood. But I don't think it allows her to do magic, she's just a muggle after all. JKR really started something with that "but..." comment. Perhaps Petunia's parents were squibs?

ComicBookWorm
May 21st, 2005, 1:00 am
I partly agree -- I also think that the charm protecting Harry when he's in Petunia's home extends to Petunia & Dudley since they're the same blood. But I don't think it allows her to do magic, she's just a muggle after all. JKR really started something with that "but..." comment. Perhaps Petunia's parents were squibs?
I think we need to push any squib ancestor to beyond what would qualify Lily as a half-blood (grandparent or great-parent--I can't be sure which is far enough) since she is a muggle-born.

HedwigOwl
May 21st, 2005, 1:04 am
I think we need to push any squib ancestor to beyond what would qualify Lily as a half-blood (grandparent or great-parent--I can't be sure which is far enough) since she is a muggle-born.

But JKR herself has said that Harry's considered a half-blood because of Lily's grandparents.

So why doesn't she just say it's because of Lily's parents instead?

Maybe his grandparents were magic/muggle, they had a squib who married a muggle (Harry's parents), who had 2 children, one muggle, one magic.

ComicBookWorm
May 21st, 2005, 1:12 am
But JKR herself has said that Harry's considered a half-blood because of his grandparents.The quote was his mother's grandparents. Therefore Harry would be considered only 'half' wizard, because of his mother's grandparents.

HedwigOwl
May 21st, 2005, 1:17 am
The quote was his mother's grandparents.

Thanks, just realized that after I hit the button.

But you can see why I still have the question. If Lily's parents were muggles, why did she skip up to Lily's grandparents as the reason Harry's a half-blood?
Can you only get a squib in all magic families? I used to think so, but several people have posted that a magic/muggle marriage can produce a squib child. Do you know any canon that can help out here? Thanks.

ComicBookWorm
May 21st, 2005, 1:21 am
We have no canon to support the idea that you need a magic/muggle mix to get a squib. It seems they can pop up in pureblood families too. JKR went back to the great-grandparent to mirror what the Nazis did when they were exterminating the Jews.

HedwigOwl
May 21st, 2005, 1:34 am
We have no canon to support the idea that you need a magic/muggle mix to get a squib. It seems they can pop up in pureblood families too. JKR went back to the great-grandparent to mirror what the Nazis did when they were exterminating the Jews.

OK thanks. So we really have no idea about any magical ancestry for the rest of Harry's family, except Lily's parents & Petunia are muggles....maybe book 6 will shed some light.

hermy_weasley2
May 21st, 2005, 3:39 am
I was reading through the Late blooming witch/wizard thread but I decided to post this here. I haven't been following this topic much so I don't know if it's come up already or has already been shot down but here it goes:

I don't think Petunia's going to be a late blooming witch/ already is a witch. It seems too easy and predictable for JKR. Hmm....she's not a squib. She is a Muggle. What if she's a link between the Muggle world and the wiarding world?

There seems to be a lot of gray area between the Muggle world and the wizarding world, especially with OoTP. Aunt Petunia, a Muggle, knows what Dementors are and claims she heard about them from "'that awful boy'" and "'her'". Assuming these two people are Lily and James, Petunia has heard it from the Muggle-born witch in her family, and she is obviously not the only Muggle with Muggle-born wizards and witches for relatives.

Then there's the fact that Fudge tells the Muggle Prime Minister about Sirius being on the loose. With all the fuss wizards and witches make about the Statute of Secrecy and hiding from Muggles, it's odd that a very powerful Muggle is "in the know". To add to that, Muggles know when dementors are around, and Muggles have definately been affected by Voldemort and the Death Eaters.

And of course there's a whole department dedicated towizard/Muggle relations in the MoM, albeit a minor one, that is headed by a likable important character. No, Mr. Weasley isn't going to be Minister of Magic, but the MoM is obviously changing now, so maybe his job will become a little more relevant and respected.

Aunt Petunia fits into this with the "Remember my last" Howler from Dumbledore. Petunia, who is a Muggle, has been involved in some kind of prior communication with the most powerful wizard of his age. This could or could not have something to do with Harry, but Harry doesn't seem to know what it is. So, what if Aunt Petunia has been cooperating with Dumbledore & Co. in whatever they've been doing for a while now and keeping it a secret by putting on an act for Vernon?

codswallop
May 21st, 2005, 6:16 am
Aunt Petunia fits into this with the "Remember my last" Howler from Dumbledore. Petunia, who is a Muggle, has been involved in some kind of prior communication with the most powerful wizard of his age. This could or could not have something to do with Harry, but Harry doesn't seem to know what it is. So, what if Aunt Petunia has been cooperating with Dumbledore & Co. in whatever they've been doing for a while now and keeping it a secret by putting on an act for Vernon?[/QUOTE]


JKR hinted that MY LAST may indicate that there were other correspondences.....ie correspondence before Harry, BH, if you will....Many of us disagree on certain aspects or interpretations of quotes....But I have not seen much argument in regards to the fact that Petunia is hiding, Hence the address 4 Privet Drive. I do not think Petunia is some sort of liason rather correspondence with wizards is in regards to her hiding.

hermy_weasley2
May 21st, 2005, 12:10 pm
JKR hinted that MY LAST may indicate that there were other correspondences.....ie correspondence before Harry, BH, if you will....Many of us disagree on certain aspects or interpretations of quotes....But I have not seen much argument in regards to the fact that Petunia is hiding, Hence the address 4 Privet Drive. I do not think Petunia is some sort of liason rather correspondence with wizards is in regards to her hiding.

She wouldn't have to be hiding from everyone , bu I think Vernon genuinely hates everything to do with magic. To keep some kind of peace she'd have to pretend that she did too.

codswallop
May 21st, 2005, 3:43 pm
She wouldn't have to be hiding from everyone , bu I think Vernon genuinely hates everything to do with magic. To keep some kind of peace she'd have to pretend that she did too.


I agree that she is pretending with Vernon however the question is:

Who is Petunia hiding from and why? Remember she lived at 4 Privet Dr before she took in Harry.

EliteAutocrat
May 21st, 2005, 11:23 pm
Hmm... I do believe that I like the Petunia/GG bloodline theory the most....if I were to choose between what I have read here today. Though unfortunately we just won't know until the end. Wouldn't it be neat if there were a contest to see who got the most theories right at the end of the series? But I guess there is really no way to do that, because it would be extremely hard to prove whose theories belonged to whom..... :cool:

Radu
May 21st, 2005, 11:49 pm
This is gonna be a looong discussion, as we know the Dursleys will be very unimportant in Book 6. The shocking truth about Petunia ( whichever that may be ) will only be revealed in Book 7.

codswallop
May 22nd, 2005, 12:03 am
This is gonna be a looong discussion, as we know the Dursleys will be very unimportant in Book 6. The shocking truth about Petunia ( whichever that may be ) will only be revealed in Book 7.

No, what was said was this was the shortest stay with the Dursley....That does not mean it will be uneventful.....Because JKR has said that she Kept wanting to use this chapter but saved it because now was the right time makes me believe that something HUGE is going to be reveal about Petunia, thus we also learn more about Lilly.

Radu
May 22nd, 2005, 12:20 am
No, what was said was this was the shortest stay with the Dursley....That does not mean it will be uneventful.....Because JKR has said that she Kept wanting to use this chapter but saved it because now was the right time makes me believe that something HUGE is going to be reveal about Petunia, thus we also learn more about Lilly.
How come I didn't know this ? Do you have a link or indication about where/when/in which interview she said this ? I'd like to read !

HedwigOwl
May 22nd, 2005, 6:20 am
She wouldn't have to be hiding from everyone , bu I think Vernon genuinely hates everything to do with magic. To keep some kind of peace she'd have to pretend that she did too.

In retrospect, it's also interesting that Petunia has had Mrs. Figg take care of Harry when they needed someone to do it. From the descriptions of Mrs. Figg, she isn't picture perfect "normal", she's kind of eccentric in many ways -- her house, her cats, etc. Since Petunia seeks out everything "normal", why choose Mrs. Figg? Did Dumbledore tell her about Mrs. Figg?

codswallop
May 22nd, 2005, 11:57 am
In retrospect, it's also interesting that Petunia has had Mrs. Figg take care of Harry when they needed someone to do it. From the descriptions of Mrs. Figg, she isn't picture perfect "normal", she's kind of eccentric in many ways -- her house, her cats, etc. Since Petunia seeks out everything "normal", why choose Mrs. Figg? Did Dumbledore tell her about Mrs. Figg?


That has always bothered me to HedwigOwl, Especially when Petunia has to take Harry to the Zoo in PS/SS. Petunia must know that Mrs. Figg is a squib and it is OK for Harry to be there....(in case he accidently does magic). I think there is still more to Mrs. Figg as her house smells like cabbage....and polyjuice potion also smells like cabbage....

I am obsessed right now with Petunia's friend Yvonne, mentioned briefly in PS/SS, because she has never been mentioned since and her name is an Anagram for NO ENVY, I am guessing she may be Petunia's link to the Wizarding World.

Nicole
May 22nd, 2005, 2:41 pm
Because JKR has said that she Kept wanting to use this chapter but saved it because now was the right time makes me believe that something HUGE is going to be reveal about Petunia, thus we also learn more about Lilly.
How come I didn't know this ? Do you have a link or indication about where/when/in which interview she said this ? I'd like to read !
I'm not sure it will have that much to do with Petunia, but it may involve Lily...

The Opening Chapter of Book Six
I have come close to using a chapter very like this in 'Philosopher's Stone' (it was one of the discarded first chapters), 'Prisoner of Azkaban' and 'Order of the Phoenix' but here, finally, it works, so it's staying. And that's all I'm going to say, but when you read it, just know that it's been about thirteen years in the brewing.

Opening Chapters of Philosopher's Stone
There were many different versions of the first chapter of 'Philosopher's Stone' and the one I finally settled on is not the most popular thing I've ever written; lots of people have told me that they found it hard work compared with the rest of the book. The trouble with that chapter was (as so often in a Harry Potter book) I had to give a lot of information yet conceal even more. There were various versions of scenes in which you actually saw Voldemort entering Godric's Hollow and killing the Potters and in early drafts of these, a Muggle betrayed their whereabouts. As the story evolved, however, and Pettigrew became the traitor, this horrible Muggle vanished.

Other drafts included a character by the name of 'Pyrites', whose name means 'fool's gold'. He was a servant of Voldemort's and was meeting Sirius in front of the Potters' house. Pyrites, too, had to be discarded, though I quite liked him as a character; he was a dandy and wore white silk gloves, which I thought I might stain artistically with blood from time to time.

The very, very earliest drafts of the first chapter of 'Philosopher's Stone' have the Potters living on a remote island, Hermione's family living on the mainland, her father spotting something that resembles an explosion out at sea and sailing out in a storm to find their bodies in the ruins of their house. I can't remember now why I thought this was a good idea, but I clearly recognised that it wasn't fairly early on, because the Potters were re-located to Godric's Hollow for all subsequent drafts.
To me, it sounds like the first chapter of Book 6 will involve events at Godric's Hollow and there is no reason to suppose that Petunia was a witness there. However, if the main portion of the chapter is the contents of the letter Dumbledore left on the doorstep with Harry...then I expect Petunia to somehow be involved in revealing it, and maybe answering some questioins about it. [Overly hopeful to think Petunia would answer many questions, though, isn't it?!]

nic_c
May 22nd, 2005, 3:04 pm
I'm really excited to know what will be written in the first chapter. I hope that a lot of questions will be answered, such as the events surrounding Lily and James' death, and what they did to Voldemort so that they had to hide. They didn't go into hiding because of the prophecy because the Longbottoms didn't also.

e5ther
May 22nd, 2005, 3:58 pm
I personally think that Petunia was VERY jealous of Lily and secretly does know quite alot about the magical community.

nic_c
May 22nd, 2005, 4:02 pm
It certainly seems that way with the knowledge of Dementors and other random facts of the wizarding world. How much knowledge does she have though? I think she will come out with this really important information about Lily or Voldemort that may help Harry.

Angel26
May 23rd, 2005, 5:30 am
I an now leaning more towards Petunia being the muggle that can use magic in desperate circumstances. But I very highly doubt the theory that she was once a witch, but either left Hogwarts or was expelled. If Petunia had gone to Hogwarts, wouldn't McGonagall have recognised her when she was watching the Dursleys the day they left Harry on their doorstep? If Petunia had gone to Hogwarts, then McGonagall and Hagrid would have known that Lily had a sister. But McGonagall seemed surprised to hear that the Muggles she had been watching all day were indeed Harry's only living relatives, and that Dumbledore was going to leave Harry with them.

ciberlco
May 23rd, 2005, 7:08 am
That has always bothered me to HedwigOwl, Especially when Petunia has to take Harry to the Zoo in PS/SS. Petunia must know that Mrs. Figg is a squib and it is OK for Harry to be there....(in case he accidently does magic). I think there is still more to Mrs. Figg as her house smells like cabbage....and polyjuice potion also smells like cabbage....

I am obsessed right now with Petunia's friend Yvonne, mentioned briefly in PS/SS, because she has never been mentioned since and her name is an Anagram for NO ENVY, I am guessing she may be Petunia's link to the Wizarding World.

Nice catch!! WOW, any idea about this? :tu:

ComicBookWorm
May 23rd, 2005, 7:22 am
Frankly, I don't think the anagram means anything. If anyone was Petunia's link it would be Mrs. Figg.

dalziel
May 23rd, 2005, 7:30 am
Two things I want to mention/ask. Firstly, do we know of any other witch/wizard who had muggle siblings? Second, Petunia must be very powerful indeed if Harry is safer in her House than at Hogwarts or Grimmauld Place! I'm sure Petunia is a muggle, but there's something about being related to Lily that's giving her similar powers to the love Lily protected Harry with. I get really confused and convoluted in my thinking and reasoning here, but I am really intrigued with DD saying that Petunia's house is the safest place for Harry.

wands_r_us
May 23rd, 2005, 7:35 am
Frankly, I don't think the anagram means anything. If anyone was Petunia's link it would be Mrs. Figg.

But didn't Mrs. Figg say to Harry that she couldnt' be all friendly with him when he was over because then the Dursley's wouldn't send him there anymore? How then could Mrs. Figg be Petunia's link?

ComicBookWorm
May 23rd, 2005, 7:59 am
But didn't Mrs. Figg say to Harry that she couldnt' be all friendly with him when he was over because then the Dursley's wouldn't send him there anymore? How then could Mrs. Figg be Petunia's link?
Well Vernon wouldn't have wanted anyone to be friendly with Harry. And he certainly wouldn't have wanted a link to the magical world. But I don't think that Petunia was in constant contact with the magical, only that Mrs. Figg was the covert link, unbeknownst to Petunia.

wands_r_us
May 23rd, 2005, 9:28 pm
Well Vernon wouldn't have wanted anyone to be friendly with Harry. And he certainly wouldn't have wanted a link to the magical world. But I don't think that Petunia was in constant contact with the magical, only that Mrs. Figg was the covert link, unbeknownst to Petunia.
If we are talking about known links and covert links, then yes, I would agree with Mrs. Figg as the covert one, but does that then suggest there is another link to the wizarding world? Is it simply Dumbledore and he alerts her to changing situations and dangers, or perhaps by another way, say a magical device that a Muggle would not need magic to view the wizarding world.

I also wonder if Vernon knows Harry was just deposited on the door step, or if Petunia covered it up by just arriving at the door with a cover story?

AccioFirebolt
May 24th, 2005, 8:06 pm
I've always assumed that Vernon knew he was just placed there. I mean, why cover it up? It's strange enough as it is, right? And what could you say? To cover it up, I mean...

dalziel
May 25th, 2005, 4:58 am
Not sure if this belongs here, but......after being terrified by the Dementors, does Dudley have his memory deleted to stop him from asking Petunia more and more about the wizarding world she wants to ignore? Is it possible for Petunia to ask someone for help, magically, someone she knows from her relationship with Lily? Does she really want to ignore magic or did she give up all attachments to the wizarding world when she married Mr Dursley, knowing he would never accept magic, or her, if she condoned it. Whew! Long sentence, hope it makes sense. There's a question in there somewhere!!

wands_r_us
May 25th, 2005, 6:21 am
I've always assumed that Vernon knew he was just placed there. I mean, why cover it up? It's strange enough as it is, right? And what could you say? To cover it up, I mean...
I agree that a baby on your doorstep is strange and Vernon would probably have turned it away. So if it were Petunia who found him first, she could say that whe had found out about the death and someone had just dropped him off? Vernon hates magic, and I'd bet cookies that Petunia had to ease him into the story of her sister very slowly.

Not sure if this belongs here, but......after being terrified by the Dementors, does Dudley have his memory deleted to stop him from asking Petunia more and more about the wizarding world she wants to ignore? Is it possible for Petunia to ask someone for help, magically, someone she knows from her relationship with Lily? Does she really want to ignore magic or did she give up all attachments to the wizarding world when she married Mr Dursley, knowing he would never accept magic, or her, if she condoned it. Whew! Long sentence, hope it makes sense. There's a question in there somewhere!!
Interesting idea that Petunia supressed her magical side so that she could catch Vernon as a husband! Maybe Vernon in her mind is what she thinks of as "normal" (whatever that is :D)

As to whether Dudley had his memory erased, I didn't find anything in my quick search of OotP, but he has been exposed to so much already, I wouldn't think he would activly want o know more. That would take effort, and Dudley would rather do nothing, punch someone, and spare himself the mental exhaustion!

AccioFirebolt
May 25th, 2005, 7:13 am
Vernon already knew about Harry and Lily and such, though. So the fact that he already knew of this makes me think that Petunia probably had an easy time telling him about their new "guest". I mean, seriously...she could say, "Well, that lazy lot has topped themselves this time!"

And Vernon would of course say something along the lines of, "Oh, Dear, what is it this time. I'm sure it couldn't be worse than the time they _________."

And then she tells him -- case settled.
------
I'm pretty sure Dudley is too stupid to realize what really happened, and since he's as scared of magic as his father, why would he ask? He probably just wants to forget that it happened at all.

neXigram
May 25th, 2005, 7:19 am
I don't think Petunia has a magical side, I think she is a muggle that once used/will use magic accidentally out of desperation one time in her life. I also think that Petunia and Lily were very close and Petunia knew everthing about the magical world through her chats with Lily. If this is true maybe something happened to make Petunia dislike magic so much, i.e. Lily's death or maybe before that when things started getting really serious with Voldemort and Petunia wanted to cut all ties with the magical world. Whatever happened/is going to happen I totaly agree with the title of this thread, There is something about Petunia.

AccioFirebolt
May 25th, 2005, 7:31 am
I'm not sure Petunia has a magical side either, really. I mean, if she did, it would already have surfaced, correct? Of course, I do find it strange that Lily was magical and Petunia isn't. I know it isn't always "there" for a person, but still -- kind of strange, I believe.
I also think that Petunia and Lily were very close and Petunia knew everything about the magical world through her chats with Lily
I disagree. Petunia has stated that she was ashamed of her sister (seemed almost jealous actually...hmmm), and we know from book 1 that she was still anti-magic world.

neXigram
May 25th, 2005, 7:38 am
I disagree. Petunia has stated that she was ashamed of her sister (seemed almost jealous actually...hmmm), and we know from book 1 that she was still anti-magic world

Yes we know from book1 that she was anti-magic but what I am proposing is that at one point, before book1 even took place, she was very close with Lily and something happened to make her so anti-magic world. This would explain why she know what dementors and Azkaban are which are small things that Dumbledore would not take the time to explain about in his letters to her, and this would also explain why Petunia is so anti-magic. Or it could be nothing at all and like you said, she is just jealous, but I find it hard to beleive she would be ashamed of her because of her knowledge about magic.I think that she just goes along with Vernon because she knows there is no point arguing with him, and like I said something occurred that made her strongly dislike magic so it is easier for her to just say "Lily was a freak" and dismiss it. interesting you are making me think AccioFirebolt! :cool:

AccioFirebolt
May 25th, 2005, 7:41 am
Yeah, I'm sure something DID happen to make her anti-magic, but I'm not sure it was anything more than her parents being "so" proud of having a witch in the family. Of course, I still wonder if Petunia had the same opportunity as Lily did -- perhaps she could have been a witch, too?

mcgonagall724
May 25th, 2005, 11:46 pm
I definitely don't think it's possible for Petunia to be a witch. It just doesn't make sense for her not to go to Hogwarts because she didn't want to. As for her magical ancestor, I think the books make it pretty clear that Lily is a Muggle-born through and through. And we know that Petunia's not a squib - JKR said so. But...does this leave other possibilities? She definitely has deep involvement with the magical world, and there's no obvious reason for that other than raising Harry, and she's been involved since long before then. The best theory I could offer is that she's something else - some special breed of Muggle? A Muggle with magical powers, but not enough to really be considered a witch? Or was she a witch at one point and then lost her powers?

dalziel
May 26th, 2005, 4:35 am
This is a very complicated thread, and I compliment you all on such well-thought-out theories. I can't come up with one, but...........

I'm surprised that DD addressed Petunia by her first name in her howler --- they must have met. (?)
I always thought that the person who became a wizard would be Hagrid -- not Filch or Petunia or Mrs Figg. Hagrid was expelled and his wand broken for the COS and later was exonerated. DD would make it up to him somehow, he's very fair.
I think Petunia understands the magic world for the same reasons the Grangers do --- because they have a witch living with them!

cbaker1
May 27th, 2005, 3:55 pm
Doesn't this whole ordeal show that Petunia is at least very basically good (as opposed to some of the wizards we have met) because ultimately, she does allow Harry to stay at the house?

Nicole
May 27th, 2005, 4:50 pm
Firstly, do we know of any other witch/wizard who had muggle siblings?
JKR had originally given Hermione a Muggle sister (younger than Hermione). Does Hermione have any brothers or sisters?

No, she doesn’t. When I first made up Hermione I gave her a younger sister, but she was very hard to work in. The younger sister was not supposed to go to Hogwarts. She was supposed to remain a Muggle. It was a sideline that didn’t work very well and it did not have a big place in the story. I have deliberately kept Hermione’s family in the background. You see so much of Ron’s family so I thought that I would keep Hermione’s family, by contrast, quite ordinary. They are dentists, as you know. They are a bit bemused by their odd daughter but quite proud of her all the same.
I think this may have originated as a sort of parallel to Lily and Petunia, but as I am not the author...just a suspicion on my part. I still wonder whether Petunia is the elder or younger sister.

dalziel
May 27th, 2005, 6:20 pm
Doesn't this whole ordeal show that Petunia is at least very basically good (as opposed to some of the wizards we have met) because ultimately, she does allow Harry to stay at the house?

I think she keeps Harry only because she HAS to. there's definitely a threat from DD to make her "toe the line" so to speak ("remember my last!") Well, if DD's last communication was another Howler, we don't get to know what was in it. If it was the letter he left with Harry, goodness knows what he actually said in it.

Incidentally, I think Petunia is truly jealous of Lily and how their parents treated them both (proud of pretty Lily and ignoring plain-jane Petunia) It would explain why she spoils Dudley rotten and is so mean and petty with Harry --- it's like paying her sister back for their childhood.

Beej91381
May 27th, 2005, 6:57 pm
I'm surprised that DD addressed Petunia by her first name in her howler --- they must have met. (?)

I think Petunia understands the magic world for the same reasons the Grangers do --- because they have a witch living with them!

They had to have met... since Dumbledore et al brought Harry to them. At some point DD had to communicate with Petunia about Harry's needs and the expectations that he'd be going to Hogwarts. But as he approached his 11th birthday it was as if the Dursleys knew it was a matter of time and they thought they could stop it.

Now, I have a VERY way, way out there theory - in fact it's not even formed enought to be a theory -just one of those odd thoughts that popped in my head for a visit and decided to stay. See if this sticks...

What if Petunia DOES have some connection to magic. What if DD foresaw what would happen to Lily and what if DUDLEY (now this is REALLY reaching) has shown signs of magical powers, but the agreement with DD and Petunia was to keep Dudley in the dark about his powers and be raised as a muggle... or perchance DD cast some sort of spell to suppress Dudley's powers... I told you I was reaching here... but perhaps Petunia has some sort of secret agreement with DD... and perhaps Mrs. Figg lives so nearby, not only to be a friend, confidante, and giver of guidance to Harry, but to keep an eye on Dudley lest something 'happens'...

Now, let's say the dementors are all about. It seems they are mostly attracted to magical people. We don't hear about them coming after muggles - (forgive me if I've missed a major point in the books - I need to go back and re-read all of them again), yet Dudley was attacked by dementors - albeit because they were after Harry and he was with Harry.

It just seems to me as though there's something under the surface - something that's being hidden - a big secret. WHAT IF DUDLEY IS THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE? O.K., O.K. that was just weird, I know. But if there is something to Petunia - what if DD is helping Petunia keep her secret... what if she IS magical and only DD knows... so DD would not tell even McGonigall - what if he's helping her keep her secret... I'm reaching again, aren't I... :huh:

The Pirate King
May 27th, 2005, 8:29 pm
I think you may be on to something about Dudley having at least magical potential that has been suppressed. I have suggested the same thing. But I disagree with you on this suggestion:

WHAT IF DUDLEY IS THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE?
My primary reason for doing so comes from a comment JKR made about Dudley's "back-story" at the Edinburgh Book Festival:

Q: Is there more to Dudley than meets the eye?

A: No. [Laughter]. What you see is what you get. I am happy to say that he is definitely a character without much back story. He is just Dudley. The next book, Half Blood Prince, is the least that you see of the Dursleys. You see them quite briefly. You see them a bit more in the final book, but you don’t get a lot of Dudley in book six—very few lines. I am sorry if there are Dudley fans out there, but I think you need to look at your priorities if it is Dudley that you are looking forward to. [Laughter].
If, as she promises, there is very little of Dudley or the Dursleys in Half-Blood Prince, it doesn't seem to make much sense that Dudley would be the title character of that book.

codswallop
May 28th, 2005, 5:41 am
They had to have met... since Dumbledore et al brought Harry to them. At some point DD had to communicate with Petunia about Harry's needs and the expectations that he'd be going to Hogwarts. But as he approached his 11th birthday it was as if the Dursleys knew it was a matter of time and they thought they could stop it.

Now, I have a VERY way, way out there theory - in fact it's not even formed enought to be a theory -just one of those odd thoughts that popped in my head for a visit and decided to stay. See if this sticks...

What if Petunia DOES have some connection to magic. What if DD foresaw what would happen to Lily and what if DUDLEY (now this is REALLY reaching) has shown signs of magical powers, but the agreement with DD and Petunia was to keep Dudley in the dark about his powers and be raised as a muggle... or perchance DD cast some sort of spell to suppress Dudley's powers... I told you I was reaching here... but perhaps Petunia has some sort of secret agreement with DD... and perhaps Mrs. Figg lives so nearby, not only to be a friend, confidante, and giver of guidance to Harry, but to keep an eye on Dudley lest something 'happens'...

Now, let's say the dementors are all about. It seems they are mostly attracted to magical people. We don't hear about them coming after muggles - (forgive me if I've missed a major point in the books - I need to go back and re-read all of them again), yet Dudley was attacked by dementors - albeit because they were after Harry and he was with Harry.

It just seems to me as though there's something under the surface - something that's being hidden - a big secret. WHAT IF DUDLEY IS THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE? O.K., O.K. that was just weird, I know. But if there is something to Petunia - what if DD is helping Petunia keep her secret... what if she IS magical and only DD knows... so DD would not tell even McGonigall - what if he's helping her keep her secret... I'm reaching again, aren't I... :huh:


I came to the same conclusion prior to the EBF quote.

HedwigOwl
May 28th, 2005, 5:55 am
I definitely don't think it's possible for Petunia to be a witch. It just doesn't make sense for her not to go to Hogwarts because she didn't want to. As for her magical ancestor, I think the books make it pretty clear that Lily is a Muggle-born through and through. And we know that Petunia's not a squib - JKR said so. But...does this leave other possibilities? She definitely has deep involvement with the magical world, and there's no obvious reason for that other than raising Harry, and she's been involved since long before then. The best theory I could offer is that she's something else - some special breed of Muggle? A Muggle with magical powers, but not enough to really be considered a witch? Or was she a witch at one point and then lost her powers?

Afraid not, JKR has said Petunia is a muggle. Not a squib, a muggle, so no magic possible, not even with a Kwikspell course.



I think she keeps Harry only because she HAS to.

Incidentally, I think Petunia is truly jealous of Lily and how their parents treated them both (proud of pretty Lily and ignoring plain-jane Petunia) It would explain why she spoils Dudley rotten and is so mean and petty with Harry --- it's like paying her sister back for their childhood.

I also think she has to. I think that Dumbledore's charm on Harry, which Petunia sealed by taking him in, also extends to Petunia and Dudley while they're in the house.

And I really like the second part of your analysis, that Petunia is kind of paying Lily back for all the attention, even though of course it wasn't Lily's fault.

As far as Dudley having magic --- I'm afraid that Dudley is a dud.

Discordia
May 28th, 2005, 4:23 pm
Someone said they think Petunia was a seer in an editorial. When you think about it sort of would make some sense. The part that got me was the bit about the connections between having "light" eyes and seers. Trelawney is said to have pale eyes like Petunia's. Another famous referene to light eyes are those of Nostradamus who had bright blue eyes. It would be cool if she really was a seer though.....

danissocute
May 28th, 2005, 4:44 pm
my guss is that Petunia is (well was) totally jealoous of Lily! i mean if u don't want to listen just back away slowly . . . but if u do come forth and share ure point of veiw . . . . the only bad opinion is the one that isn't stated. (or somethin like that!)
a'right lets get it started



1. petunia is so jealous of her sis cause her parents were always proud of having a witch in the family.
2. she is interested in the magical world she just won't let it out cause of vernon the ULTIMATE HATER OF THINGS UN-NORMAL!!!
3.she wishes she would hav gone to hogwarts so she allowed Harry into their lives becasue that would make her closer to the magical world
4. she and her sis are born from someone magical and she does know how to do magic she just keeps it well hidden(incase u haven't noticed her house is unaturally clean all the time and we learned from tonks (book 5) that there are "house-holdy spells" )
5 wow im finally out of ideas(for right now that is), i have a whole journal full of these send me an owl if u want me to put them all up.

wands_r_us
May 29th, 2005, 10:23 am
Someone said they think Petunia was a seer in an editorial. When you think about it sort of would make some sense. The part that got me was the bit about the connections between having "light" eyes and seers. Trelawney is said to have pale eyes like Petunia's. Another famous referene to light eyes are those of Nostradamus who had bright blue eyes. It would be cool if she really was a seer though.....
I wonder if there is a difference between wizarding seer's and muggle psychics? What separates the two?

As for Petunia having magical potential, I remember an interview or quote from Jo about PoA: the movie, when she said something like how there was an element in the scene when Aunt Marge gets blow up that relates to Petunia, but she couldn't say what because it gives away something in either book 6 or 7. It wasn't really scripted, just the way the actor playing Petunia and how the scene was shot made her very happy. I am beyond curious to find out how it does this. Here's crossing my fingers for HBP!

Odessaindigo
May 29th, 2005, 10:31 am
Yeah, and it seems like not much surprises Petunia, maybe cause she already knew it was gonna happen? And I don't know if and where this has been mentioned before but Does anyone else get the seer vibe form Luna Lovegood? She has the light eyes, the batty aura ( adolescent Trelawney anyone? OOOHHHH, maybe Luna is related in some way to Trelawney?) And Knew an awful lot about Harry and co. In OoTP's train ride to Hogwarts.

WoodsMom
June 2nd, 2005, 6:40 pm
HI all. I don't know if this was mentioned in previous threads. I was re reading book 3 and found in Chapter two something interesting about Petunia. It is where Vernon is watching the news about the escaped Sirius Black and gets upset when the news moves on and he wants to know where is he escaped from. What does Petunia say.. Nothing. But what does she do when Vernon states something like " he could be walkign up our very street right now?" She whips around to look. Ok two things took noticed here for me.

1. If she knew who Sirius Black was and his threat, She reacted but stayed calm and undercover.( For those who believe she is more then we think). But When her Dudders is attacked by The Dementors she freaks and Slips. My point is that she knows Sirius Black or knows of Him and where he escaped from. How weird would it have been if she had answered Vernon with.. Oh Sirius Black,well he was in Azkaban? It Would have thrown us for a loop but,would it had been as excting or as mysterious as when she did slip?



2. This involves Harry and his PERSPECTIVE of Aunt Petunia, He is always saying she spies on the neighbors. she is very very nosey. Which he does think after she Whips around to look out the window. But in Book 3 (to the first of Book 5) thats all the feelings and thoughts he has of her. How would he have perceived it if he knew then, what he knows now after her slip. Do you think he is still going to see her as nosey? Someone who Spies on people?

codswallop
June 2nd, 2005, 6:56 pm
Afraid not, JKR has said Petunia is a muggle. Not a squib, a muggle, so no magic possible, not even with a Kwikspell course.



I do not think we can eliminate any theories yet. (Except the squib theory) JRK did not say Petunia is a Muggle. She said Petunia is a Muggle BUT.... and then said something about being shockingly Indiscreet. She did not say no magic possible not even with a kwikspell course. (Of course, personally, I am leaning towards the latebloomer....today.)

Ninerings
June 2nd, 2005, 7:47 pm
Whatever she may be... squib, muggle, undercover witch, whatever... there is still more we will have to learn about our "favorite" aunt. Just the fact that she knew what a Dementor was and stayed in contact with Dumbledore is enough to show that anything she knows about the wizarding world will be a bit of a shock as we were led to believe otherwise through the first four books......

I have no theories, I just can't wait to see what (if) she says next!!

HedwigOwl
June 3rd, 2005, 2:48 am
I do not think we can eliminate any theories yet. (Except the squib theory) JRK did not say Petunia is a Muggle. She said Petunia is a Muggle BUT.... and then said something about being shockingly Indiscreet. She did not say no magic possible not even with a kwikspell course. (Of course, personally, I am leaning towards the latebloomer....today.)

It's interesting how people sometimes seem to forget the definition of a muggle whenever they post on the Petunia thread. :shrug:

JKR has told us a muggle is someone with no magic ability in them. Of course she can't tell us what comes after the "but...", it would ruin something in the next 2 books! I'm betting that the "but..." is something more along the lines of "Petunia is a muggle, but...in the past she was involved with someone who turned out to be a wizard", or some such. But, a muggle is a muggle is a muggle.

codswallop
June 3rd, 2005, 4:34 am
It's interesting how people sometimes seem to forget the definition of a muggle whenever they post on the Petunia thread. :shrug:

JKR has told us a muggle is someone with no magic ability in them. Of course she can't tell us what comes after the "but...", it would ruin something in the next 2 books! I'm betting that the "but..." is something more along the lines of "Petunia is a muggle, but...in the past she was involved with someone who turned out to be a wizard", or some such. But, a muggle is a muggle is a muggle.

It is not about definitions as much is it is about the interpretation of the Quote.I know there are lots of people who agree with you HedwigOwl, However, to me it could easily be Petunia is a muggle but she will discover magical powers late in life or Petunia is a muggle but it is by choice, she could have been a witch.....I just cannot eliminate certain possibilties on the basis of that quote-- It is very difficult to decipher what she meant by BUT. Because it is a quote open to interpretation, I cannot say anything is wrong except a squib. That was pretty clear cut.

HedwigOwl
June 3rd, 2005, 5:31 am
It is not about definitions as much is it is about the interpretation of the Quote.I know there are lots of people who agree with you HedwigOwl, However, to me it could easily be Petunia is a muggle but she will discover magical powers late in life or Petunia is a muggle but it is by choice, she could have been a witch.....I just cannot eliminate certain possibilties on the basis of that quote-- It is very difficult to decipher what she meant by BUT. Because it is a quote open to interpretation, I cannot say anything is wrong except a squib. That was pretty clear cut.

I can see why a lot of people want to keep that open to interpretation. I just don't understand how they resolve the obvious conflict between being a muggle, and "could have been a witch but decided not to" -- as these 2 things are diametrically opposed to each other. Muggles have no magic in them. Witches have magic in them, even if they choose not to use it, it's there. A muggle could choose to use magic, but good luck with that, since there isn't any to use.....you see my point, don't you?

codswallop
June 3rd, 2005, 5:37 am
I can see why a lot of people want to keep that open to interpretation. I just don't understand how they resolve the obvious conflict between being a muggle, and "could have been a witch but decided not to" -- as these 2 things are diametrically opposed to each other. Muggles have no magic in them. Witches have magic in them, even if they choose not to use it, it's there. A muggle could choose to use magic, but good luck with that, since there isn't any to use.....you see my point, don't you?


I see what you are talking about, choosing not to be a witch was an example. I do not subscribe to that theory, per se, I was just using it as an example that I do not neccessarily agree with however am not willing to eliminate it on JKR quote, maybe for other reasons. Those who like that theory often use the DD quote of "It is our choices rather that abilities" quote or something like that. (Like I said before, I am leaning towards Petunia as being a late-blooming witch.)

HedwigOwl
June 3rd, 2005, 5:46 am
I see what you are talking about, choosing not to be a witch was an example. I do not subscribe to that theory, per se, I was just using it as an example that I do not neccessarily agree with however am not willing to eliminate it on JKR quote, maybe for other reasons. Those who like that theory often use the DD quote of "It is our choices rather that abilities" quote or something like that. (Like I said before, I am leaning towards Petunia as being a late-blooming witch.)

OK. I'm still leaning toward Petunia not being the late bloomer (based on JKR's saying she's a muggle -- regardless of the "but..."). My money's on Mrs. Figg. I'll meet you back here in some version after book 6...or 7. :agree:

ix3MALFOY
June 3rd, 2005, 5:52 am
i thought JK Rowling said that she isnt a witch nor squib. I think she will play an important role of helping harry in a "magical" way. Maybe she knows a secret about Lily and that secret would help harry in the wizard world.

codswallop
June 3rd, 2005, 5:59 am
i thought JK Rowling said that she isnt a witch nor squib. I think she will play an important role of helping harry in a "magical" way. Maybe she knows a secret about Lily and that secret would help harry in the wizard world.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR website News Section EBF
Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet .

teo
June 3rd, 2005, 6:08 am
Those who like that theory often use the DD quote of "It is our choices rather that abilities" quote or something like that.

My counter-argument to the usage of this quote as support of the idea that Petunia was accepted to Hogwarts, but chose not to be a witch, would be that we already have a very large example of how Petunia was not able to choose to change herself in such a fundamental way. No matter how much Petunia tried to distance herself from her sister and everything magical, when Harry was killed, she was still connected to him by blood, and was therefore able to protect him by letting him live with her. If she could not choose to remove her blood connection with her family, how could she choose to remove all magical ability from her blood?

Now, the other theory is that Petunia will be the famous late-blooming witch or wizard. This is possible, perhaps, but it just seems so much more likely to me that it would be a squib, who at least does have magical blood from his/her parents, even if it hasn't yet manifested itself. Filch's magic correspondence course just seems to me like a great potential bit of foreshadowing...we'll see!

SiriusMuggle
June 3rd, 2005, 7:01 am
Ok, forgive me for going back a couple pages here - back to Petunia's cleanliness. While Petunia is a muggle and some muggles are incredibly clean (also known as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), it is known that OCD is a manifestation of deeper problems/concerns. So, what I'm trying to say is that perhaps Petunia's cleanliness is an extension of her wanting to hide things...clean up the mess of that which she is trying to hide? Also, Mrs. Figg just doesn't strike me as the neatest person, especially in comparison to Petunia...quite a contrast from Mrs. Figg's place to Petunia's. I'm just wondering if that is a coincidence or purposeful.

cbaker1, Petunia let Harry stay because she's covering her own behind, not so much because she's good.

And another random thought I had here, although JKR said she wasn't going to expand much of Hermione's family, the thought did occur to me: what is Hermione's heritage? Obviously, someone, somewhere was magical....things that make you go hmmmm?!

ComicBookWorm
June 3rd, 2005, 7:02 am
The late-bloooming person will be either Filch or Mrs. Figg. My money is on Mrs. Figg because she made such a big deal about not being able to transfigure even a teacup. She's out there performing services for the Order and could be in peril. An attack might trigger a protective response.

Billywiggy
June 3rd, 2005, 8:07 am
As for Petunia having magical potential, I remember an interview or quote from Jo about PoA: the movie, when she said something like how there was an element in the scene when Aunt Marge gets blow up that relates to Petunia, but she couldn't say what because it gives away something in either book 6 or 7. It wasn't really scripted, just the way the actor playing Petunia and how the scene was shot made her very happy. I am beyond curious to find out how it does this. Here's crossing my fingers for HBP!

I remember hearing something about this too. . . if you look at the scene again, you can see the actress playing Petunia balling her hand in a fist over and over in agitation when Marge goes on and on about 'bad blood' on the Lily's side of the family. Then, of course Harry gets upset and blows her up . . . or does he? Maybe it's Petunia doing it?

Ok - don't kill me for saying this :scared: - it's just an idea . . . everyone in the books assumes it was Harry (even Harry!) - but they also assumed he did the 'hover' charm, when it was Dobby. Is there really a way to know it was Harry? Harry seemed a little surprised as well, saying something like - he hadn't done that sort of out-of-control magic in a while.

teo
June 3rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Does anyone have an exact quote on this PoA movie quote? I know she said that there were things in the movie that foreshadowed events to come, but I don't remember her mentioning specific scenes...anyway, here are a couple other quotes I found while searching for the movie one. These have likely been brought up before, but I don't see them in this version, and most of the discussion seems to be centered around JKR's more recent quote from her website.

Since Harry Potter's parents were sorcerers and Petunia was Harry's mother's sister. Shouldn't Petunia be a witch or wizard?

A. No. As Hagrid explains in Book I, sometimes a witch or a wizard occurs in an otherwise Muggle family, just as a Squib is a non-magic person who occurs in an otherwise magic family.

A question also surfaced surrounding Harry Potter’s non-magical relatives, the Muggles who have always tortured or mistreated Harry, because of their fear of magic. For revenge, Harry has magically tortured his cousin Dudley. 'I like torturing them,' said Rowling. 'You should keep an eye on Dudley. It’s probably too late for Aunt Petunia and Uncle Vernon. I feel sorry for Dudley. I might joke about him, but I feel truly sorry for him because I see him as just as abused as Harry. Though, in possibly a less obvious way. What they are doing to him is inept, really. I think children recognize that. Poor Dudley. He’s not being prepared for the world at all, in any reasonable or compassionate way, so I feel sorry for him. But there’s something funny about him, also. The pig’s tail was irresistible.'

WoodsMom
June 3rd, 2005, 5:35 pm
I also have wondered if it was Harry blowing up Aunt Marge.
Here is a scenerio. I think I posted it on one of these threads earlier. But what if and I mean open your minds. OK what if Petunia gave up Magic for Vernon. WE figure from the books that she isn't the prettiest Duck in the pond. And I think by what we know of her that she is alot older maybe up to ten years older,. Just by the fact that Her and Vernon seem well set financially. Which usually takes a few years, unless inherited. IF Petunia was older and well Not so pretty. And Vernon is the only one who paid any attention to her. I could see for her sake in not wanting to be alone, giving up certain things for him and resenting him for it. Which she may be doing when she gives the idea of how much she hates the magic world. How many of us do that when we are forced or willing give up something we really don't want too. We usually resent those who we are doing it for. Here is a man who hates anything out of his ordinary and Petunia could have a low self esteem And sure she loves him but she would have to give up her true self for him. Which then she chooses to live as a muggle.

I also had the idea that something may have happened and she was made to live as a muggle, but that goes against the whole idea of "How our choices affect our lives" that JK is trying to get across to us.

Anyhoo. If she chose to live as a muggle, maybe when her emotions are pushed to the limit, she gets ticked off and wants to blow something up..and Hmmmmmm....??? Any of you ever get that mad or upset?

SiriusMuggle
June 3rd, 2005, 7:56 pm
I thought the same thing WoodsMom, that perhaps it was Petunia who blew up Aunt Marge. I just noticed in the movie that Petunia seemed to really abhor the fact that this woman brings her dogs - which are messy; she is quite unkempt and I think the whole time Petunia was having an anxiety attack watching this scene play out at the dinner table. It wasn't so much the exchange between Marge and Harry as it was the mess the dog was making eating table food on the floor, the glass of wine breaking - no doubt causing a mess. I think both Harry and Petunia lost their cool at precisely the same moment, so it could have been Petunia, not Harry, who blew Marge up. But then, that would lead to the questions of how to interpret JK's statement "Petunia is a muggle but..."; why did Harry get blamed for the misuse of magic and not Petunia? At that point, you could choose to say Petunia is a muggle, BUT she CHOSE to live as one for whatever reason; or Petunia is a muggle BUT really she is a late blooming witch; or Petunia is a muggle BUT nothing...she's a muggle is as muggles do. And then regarding why Harry got tagged for Petunia's use of magic (when she appears NOT to be magical) - well, Harry got tagged for Dobby didn't he? Someone at the MoM needs to perfect their notifications...in as much as they seem to know the precise time, date, and address of the misuse of magic, they have issues in determining WHO the "culprit" was...

Lumiere
June 3rd, 2005, 9:40 pm
Ok so this has been touched upon briefly, but I was reading this on Jo's website and it intrigues me:

So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys' doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that...

Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I'll be watching...

P.S. It has been suggested that I am wrong in saying that Dumbledore's last letter was the one he left on the doorstep with baby Harry, and that he has sent a letter since then concerning Harry's illegal flight to school. However, both Dumbledore and I differentiate between letters sent to the Dursleys as a couple, and messages directed to Petunia ALONE. And that's my final word on the subject-though I doubt it will be yours :)

Boy was she right. This is, personally, what I gather from this whole FAQ answer:

1) For some reason DD has sent Petunia letters before Harry arrived on Privet Drive. So I ask, why? I mean, I don't know if Dean Thomas has siblings, but DD isn't sending letters to all the siblings of Muggle-born wizards. He's got a school to run!
2) What was in that letter, anyways, to make Petunia fear it so?
3) If Petunia and Vernon are indeed this happy couple, why has she kept all this from him for so long? It's very obvious he has no clue.

Alright...that's it. Talk amongst yourselves ;)

codswallop
June 3rd, 2005, 10:43 pm
Originally Posted by wands_r_us
As for Petunia having magical potential, I remember an interview or quote from Jo about PoA: the movie, when she said something like how there was an element in the scene when Aunt Marge gets blow up that relates to Petunia, but she couldn't say what because it gives away something in either book 6 or 7. It wasn't really scripted, just the way the actor playing Petunia and how the scene was shot made her very happy. I am beyond curious to find out how it does this. Here's crossing my fingers for HBP!


Doesn't Fiona Shaw(Aunt Petunia) look an awful lot like Margeret Hamilton(witch on wizard of oz). Check the picture out where Margaret is riding the bike? It won't let me copy from the site.

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/maggie.htm

teo
June 4th, 2005, 12:15 am
I also have wondered if it was Harry blowing up Aunt Marge.

I think it's pretty safe to say that it was Harry. If Petunia were using any magic at all during the timeframe of the books, even unintentionally, she would no longer be a Muggle. Even though Harry had no idea of his magical ability before Hagrid showed up at the hut on the rock, he was still a wizard!

Aire627
June 4th, 2005, 12:24 am
Perhaps Petunia isn't a Squib like we thought she was. I have a feeling that Mrs. Dursely was a witch, but rejected the wizarding world on her own. This could be because she fell in love with Vernon, or maybe because her parents dissaproved of Petunia becoming a witch, but could not stop Lily, that intelligent little daredevil. Either way, something about Petunia Dursley is mysterious and magical.

winky22
June 15th, 2005, 9:14 am
I have been doing some research and i came across this at Mugglenet Petunia: puzzle, poser or paradox (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-monazza01.shtml)

There is an interesting slice in it concerning another book, in this book this girl is deneying she is magical and she believed that to keep cleaning would push the powers out of her.

Ring any bells?

Seriously click on the link, it is explained better than i have.

ComicBookWorm
June 15th, 2005, 9:15 am
I have been doing some research and i came across this at Mugglenet Petunia: puzzle, poser or paradox (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-monazza01.shtml)

There is an interesting slice in it concerning another book, in this book this girl is deneying she is magical and she believed that to keep cleaning would push the powers out of her.

Ring any bells?

Seriously click on the link, it is explained better than i have.
Still doesn't make her a muggle (or non-magical). She would still be a magical person who didn't want to be magical.

winky22
June 15th, 2005, 7:24 pm
Still doesn't make her a muggle (or non-magical). She would still be a magical person who didn't want to be magical.

I never thought is was. It just sprang out at me and thought it was a coincidence.

Xayla
June 15th, 2005, 8:48 pm
Thanks for the link, winky22. That was a good editorial & it supports my theory that Petunia is a witch who's in denial & suppressing her powers (which may be weak, but who knows?)

goldennib
June 15th, 2005, 10:29 pm
Wow - I haven't been around in a while and I see I have alot to read to catch up. Looks like the positions are kind of the same, though. Be back when my eyes give out.

I still say Petunia has denied her magical abilities, gave up being a witch, joined the muggles, thus making her "a muggle, but...."

Queen_Beruth
June 16th, 2005, 12:16 am
I also had the idea that something may have happened and she was made to live as a muggle, but that goes against the whole idea of "How our choices affect our lives" that JK is trying to get across to us.


Well if she had some magical ability (as I suspect) and deliberately repressed it, then it fits in with the theme of choices. One sister accepted her ability/creativity and the challenges and dangers of the magical world, and one denied and repressed herself.

The result is a drab, dull, shrewish, mean-minded woman who has poured herself into her unpleasant family.

I'm sure the truth will out and she will attempt magic in some extreme circumstance, but not until near the end of Book 7.

dalziel
June 16th, 2005, 3:23 am
I still say Petunia has denied her magical abilities, gave up being a witch, joined the muggles, thus making her "a muggle, but...."[/QUOTE]


OK, here's my theory (and because it's mine, I can't find any problems with it!)

Petunia said her parents were "so proud" to have "a witch in the family" when LIly got her Hogwarts letter. Not "a magical person", but a WITCH. NOw, what about if the girls' mom was a Muggle but their father was a Wizard? It wouldn't make Petunia a Squib (we're told she's not) but it would make her a bit more than an ordinary Muggle (as JKR has alluded).

Oh, and I think the previous letter from DD to Petunia ("Remember my last") was a notification of her sister's death by LV. Petunia was aware of LV's powers and was in denial about all things magic until the mention of throwing out Harry made DD write to remind her.

HedwigOwl
June 16th, 2005, 4:21 am
I remember hearing something about this too. . . if you look at the scene again, you can see the actress playing Petunia balling her hand in a fist over and over in agitation when Marge goes on and on about 'bad blood' on the Lily's side of the family. Then, of course Harry gets upset and blows her up . . . or does he? Maybe it's Petunia doing it?

Ok - don't kill me for saying this :scared: - it's just an idea . . . everyone in the books assumes it was Harry (even Harry!) - but they also assumed he did the 'hover' charm, when it was Dobby. Is there really a way to know it was Harry? Harry seemed a little surprised as well, saying something like - he hadn't done that sort of out-of-control magic in a while.

It was Harry, according to JKR, Red Nose Chat Day, March 12, 2001:
Do you need a Wand to do Magic?
JKR: You can do unfocused and uncontrolled magic without a wand (for instance when Harry blows up Aunt Marge), but to do really good spells, yes, you need a wand..

Billywiggy
June 16th, 2005, 5:58 am
Thanks so much for that quote Hedwig! I'd never heard that, I'm glad that I know that now. Now I just have to think what 'more' there is to Petunia if it's not magic . . . hmmm

teo
June 16th, 2005, 6:13 am
OK, here's my theory (and because it's mine, I can't find any problems with it!)

Petunia said her parents were "so proud" to have "a witch in the family" when LIly got her Hogwarts letter. Not "a magical person", but a WITCH. NOw, what about if the girls' mom was a Muggle but their father was a Wizard? It wouldn't make Petunia a Squib (we're told she's not) but it would make her a bit more than an ordinary Muggle (as JKR has alluded).

Interesting theory! It sounds like you aren't saying that Petunia is a witch or has/had/will have magical ability, but that the "but..." part of the quote means that she had a wizard father. I have to take the opposite view though...for one, I don't remember ever hearing the term "magical person" used in place of "wizard" or "witch". Witch seems to be the term that is always used for a female with magical ability, so I don't think this phrasing means anything. It seems to me like the parents were both surprised and happy to have a witch in the family. If the father had been a wizard, it may not have been nearly as surprising to have a child with magical abilities. Of course, we don't know how likely a child born from one magical and one non-magical parent is to be magical himself/herself, so you could have a point here. Also, Petunia never mentions anything about her parents being magical...just Lily.

The Pirate King
June 16th, 2005, 6:15 am
Except wasn't Lily supposed to be a Muggleborn? If Mr. Evans was a wizard, that would technically make her a half-blood.

teo
June 16th, 2005, 6:41 am
Except wasn't Lily supposed to be a Muggleborn? If Mr. Evans was a wizard, that would technically make her a half-blood.

Yeah, something tells me we hear somewhere that she was a muggle-born...at least I seem to remember that. Perhaps the better theory would be to say that both parents were muggles but there was a wizard or witch in the family somewhere (grandparent, great grandparent, etc.).

winky22
June 16th, 2005, 8:53 am
Thanks for the link, winky22. That was a good editorial & it supports my theory that Petunia is a witch who's in denial & suppressing her powers (which may be weak, but who knows?)

Your welcome, thats what i think too. She tried to do it to Harry because she did it to herself and she knew it could be done.

Lumiere
June 16th, 2005, 3:44 pm
The problem with thinking Petunia is a witch in denial is that JKR has said quite clearly that she is a "muggle but..." She is a muggle, which means that right now in the books and for all her life she has been one. I don't think you can become a muggle if you are born a witch/wizard. You are still a witch/wizard.

Remember when Hagrid came to get Harry and he said (at least in the movie) "You're a wizard, Harry." Harry has never chosen to be a wizard because he didn't know he was one. He has been a wizard all his life; he was born that way. In that same thought frame, Petunia is a muggle, a non-magical person, and has been all her life.

This isn't to say, though, that she won't become magical, I do agree with that. JKR said someone would. My bets are on Petunia.

As for the letter "my last" from DD that I mentioned awhile back, my theory is that the letter left with Harry not only said what happened to Lily and James, but warned Petunia that if they didn't take Harry in, the same fate might come down on them from Voldemort. What I'm curious about is what DD has written to Petunia about before Harry showed up.

Personally, I don't think Petunia hated magic really until then. Yes, she was jealous of her sister, but this put the fear in her. And by keeping away anything magical and denying it even exists, Petunia protects her whole family (even if it includes Harry)

emarie2505
June 16th, 2005, 4:21 pm
Would Petunia still be classed as a witch if she didn't take up her place at Hogwarts? Anyway, whos to say she isn't? Ok so Hagrid and McGonagall both called her muggle but i can't remember Dumbledore ever calling her one (someone let me know if you find different). It might not be important but he would be in the position to know and we can usually trust what he says as being the truth.

If shes not yet a witch is it usual to come into magical powers later in life? The only person who comes close to this is Neville. Interesting :)

Lumiere
June 16th, 2005, 6:43 pm
I don't have exact quotes handy, but I'm sure it's posted somewhere:

-JKR says herself that Petunia is a "muggle but..." meaning there is something else to her than just being a muggle. But a muggle is a muggle is a muggle....a non-magical person. This is a person who cannot use magic, not just someone who chooses not to.

-As far as being called a witch, as I stated already, Hagrid called Harry a wizard before he went to Hogwarts, before Harry had a chance to accept going to Hogwarts. This would mean to me that yes, you can be a witch/wizard without having to go to school first. So if you give up magic, you are still a wizard.

-JKR said it is extremely rare for a non-magical person to develop magical abilities late in life. You have to show magical promise by age 11. But she said someone who is non-magical will develop magical abilities sometime in the last books.

dalziel
June 16th, 2005, 7:41 pm
Interesting theory! It sounds like you aren't saying that Petunia is a witch or has/had/will have magical ability, but that the "but..." part of the quote means that she had a wizard father. I have to take the opposite view though...for one, I don't remember ever hearing the term "magical person" used in place of "wizard" or "witch". Witch seems to be the term that is always used for a female with magical ability, so I don't think this phrasing means anything. It seems to me like the parents were both surprised and happy to have a witch in the family. If the father had been a wizard, it may not have been nearly as surprising to have a child with magical abilities. Of course, we don't know how likely a child born from one magical and one non-magical parent is to be magical himself/herself, so you could have a point here. Also, Petunia never mentions anything about her parents being magical...just Lily.


Your'e right that "magical person" sounds a bit OTT and clumsy. That's why I thought it was Dad who was magical; if it was Mum, saying "we have another witch in the family" would have been quite a giveaway!

No, petunia doesn't mention her parents being magical --- she really doesn't mention them at all. No photographs, no mementoes (even for Little Dudley to treasure). That's another reason I think one of them was magic --- Petunia is so scared of magic I think her childhood must have been one long misery of feeling left-out --- not just left out of the family, but their whole wizarding world!

ciberlco
June 16th, 2005, 7:48 pm
Your'e right that "magical person" sounds a bit OTT and clumsy. That's why I thought it was Dad who was magical; if it was Mum, saying "we have another witch in the family" would have been quite a giveaway!

No, petunia doesn't mention her parents being magical --- she really doesn't mention them at all. No photographs, no mementoes (even for Little Dudley to treasure). That's another reason I think one of them was magic --- Petunia is so scared of magic I think her childhood must have been one long misery of feeling left-out --- not just left out of the family, but their whole wizarding world!

Nice catch, a moodblood is considered only for one parent :clap:

The Pirate King
June 16th, 2005, 8:08 pm
As far as being called a witch, as I stated already, Hagrid called Harry a wizard before he went to Hogwarts, before Harry had a chance to accept going to Hogwarts. This would mean to me that yes, you can be a witch/wizard without having to go to school first. So if you give up magic, you are still a wizard.
Ah, but that was Hagrid talking. And it seems to me JKR has made it clear that Hagrid, while apparently quite well-meaning and sincere, is not always a reliable narrator. Hagrid, in the books, claims there wasn't a witch or wizard went bad who wasn't in Slytherin--that's already been proven incorrect, if we look at Peter Pettigrew and (increasingly) Percy Weasley.

IMO, "being a wizard" and possessing the magical talent that's necessary to become one are two very different things. I think Hagrid has mixed the two up.

ginasmads
June 16th, 2005, 10:33 pm
Nice catch, a moodblood is considered only for one parent :clap:

snape called her a mudblood and petunia said her parents were so proud to have a witch in the family if one of them was already magical it would be strange if they were so proud to have A witch if they were used to more?

i think she is just like hermionie, muggle life and parents until she got her letter.

i do love theorising (so not a word!!!) on aunt petunia!

iluvhhr
June 20th, 2005, 5:23 am
I believe that Petunia knows more about the wizarding world than she lets on. She did, after all, know about Azkaban, which shocked Vernon. I don't know if she showed any magical promise, but I imagine she learned some things about the magical world from Lily.

Kidney Pie
June 25th, 2005, 5:54 am
We know that there are Muggles and Squibs. But I think there is a third class of people which I will call a squash. That is, they have squashed the magic out of themselves. The Dursleys wanted to squash the magic out of Harry. I wonder how very close they might have come to doing that? Anyway, how did they know that they could possibly succeed in squashing the magic out unless Petunia had already done this to herself?

johnnyandme
June 25th, 2005, 6:00 am
who knows, i particualarly have my own word for the dursleys but it is a bit inappropriate so i like that.

Kidney Pie
June 25th, 2005, 6:02 am
Well I think Jo kind of let on that she wasn't a squib and well she is more than a muggle too..so I like to call her a squash. :) I think there are a few squashes out there besides Petunia. She mentioned she had a friend in Majorca or some place like that. That was only in passing but maybe that is another squash friend of hers.

ciberlco
June 25th, 2005, 6:05 am
I strongly agree with you Kidney Pie, cause:

1. Petunia tried to get rid off Harry´s magic, what´s the porpouse of this??
2. The Dursleys sweared to stop with that freaky thingy, I think they were talking about harry´s magic.
3. Petunia knew the way a Howgart letter looked, if she is that afraid of magic, what would she remember it that well?

There is something fishy here!! :tu:

Tane
July 4th, 2005, 12:42 pm
I strongly agree with you Kidney Pie, cause:

1. Petunia tried to get rid off Harry´s magic, what´s the porpouse of this??
2. The Dursleys sweared to stop with that freaky thingy, I think they were talking about harry´s magic.
3. Petunia knew the way a Howgart letter looked, if she is that afraid of magic, what would she remember it that well?

There is something fishy here!! :tu:I think this might have something to do with Lily's death; it probably hurt Petunia more than we can imagine. Petunia blames magic for the loss of her sister. The letters from Hogwarts might be painful if a letter from Hogwarts sent by Dumbledore broke the news to her about Lily being killed. A kind of war time letter stating that I regret to inform you that you beloved sister was killed on.... and so on. Would you ever forget what that letter looked like, would you always remember it?

What if Dumbledore told Petunia about the prophecy in order to convince her to take on Harry? If that was the case then perhaps Petunia's attempt in squashing Harry's magical ability was done to try and stop the later part of that prophecy from occurring, to stop him from being a threat and therefore prevent another family member from dying due to magic.

codswallop
July 4th, 2005, 4:03 pm
She had to have corresponded with Lilly with in the year of her death, as they seem to have no other living relatives, because she knew Harry's name....


What I am wondering about is the Mrs. Skower's Magical Mess Clearer, It was mentioned two times in GoF, I think Petunia has a couple of cans of this at 4 Privet Drive....

HurricaneGirl
July 7th, 2005, 12:20 am
What I am wondering about is the Mrs. Skower's Magical Mess Clearer, It was mentioned two times in GoF, I think Petunia has a couple of cans of this at 4 Privet Drive....

lol...

On an alltogether different note: I've been trying to re-read OotP before next Saturday. I noticed something about Umbridge's speech after the first feast of the year. She said something about the powers the kids were born with coming to nothing if they didn't recieve proper training (I don't have my book with me, but it was around page 200 in the American edition). That got me thinking about Petunia, all the theories floating around about her, the quiestion posed as to whether or not one can choose to ignore your powers, etc. Those of you who have a lot of questions about Petunia have most likely read the posts...

I haven't any really clear cut thoughts on the matter of what Umbridge said, but it does seem to support the ideas regarding Petunia rather nicely.

I'd go and get my book, but it's in the same room as my napping son... I'll try to find the quoat and post it when I have a chance.

So, any thoughts?

delfina
July 7th, 2005, 11:20 pm
I just do not think Moody would be referring to Dudley, it would not make sense, I do not think Dudley's actions are that important to an outsider to mention them. Too many things are amiss. The theme of choices rather than ability. Even with exposure to Lilly remembering the name Azkaban after so many years is very suspiciuos. Petunia behaves very suspiciously. She is obviously hiding something, Griffindor heir, could definitely be a answer to these unanswered questions. Jealously can only take you so far, but to obsession, I do not think so....I do not even think Petunia is as bitter as say Snape....


I do think because JKR said that she considered using this opening in several books, we will get our answer in book 6. As openings usually contain information about the Dursley's, I think we will get our answer regarding Petunia. In OOP, JKR prepped us with more information regarding suspicion around Petunia than she did in the first 4 books combined.
i think moody's comment about being able to write a book about what goes on in the dursley's house that uncle vernon doesn't know about is a direct reference to putunia, not dudley as some have thought, especially since isn't his eye good for looking at magical goings on? so maybe that was an ENORMOUS clue as to something magically mysterious about petunia, even if it is just her heritage and not an actual ability to do magic herself.

HurricaneGirl
July 8th, 2005, 5:48 am
Ah-ha! Here's the quoat I was talking about:

"The rare gifts with which you were born may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by careful instruction."

- Dolores Umbridge
OotP P. 212 pp. 7, American Edition

Headologist
July 8th, 2005, 10:54 am
I've always felt that Dumbledore promised Petunia something -- a bribe of sorts -- to take in Harry. I can't see her doing so otherwise, can you?

Maybe that he'd put a memory charm on them to forget about Lily and the wizarding world?

Not sure.

Headologist

waggawaggawer
July 8th, 2005, 11:15 am
I've always felt that Dumbledore promised Petunia something -- a bribe of sorts -- to take in Harry. I can't see her doing so otherwise, can you?

Maybe that he'd put a memory charm on them to forget about Lily and the wizarding world?

Not sure.

Headologist

Probably Dumbledore pointed out the protection which applied to Harry might also apply to dear little Duddykins, and that if Harry went unprotected, so would Diddydums.

CaRTeR__
July 8th, 2005, 11:31 am
Petunia is a really strange character, i think there was something weird about how she remembered what dementers where and that they where prison gaurds... Maybe she knows more then shes letting on from the wizarding world, but i heard that the stay with the dursleys will be short, and that means we wont find out much about petunia :upset:

Bunny
July 8th, 2005, 12:04 pm
Ah-ha! Here's the quoat I was talking about:

"The rare gifts with which you were born may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by careful instruction."

- Dolores Umbridge
OotP P. 212 pp. 7, American Edition That is to do with the fact that she was attempting to reduce their rare gifts to nothing.
I understand that you are quoting it in reference to Petunia, but the fact is that Jo has already stated that she is a muggle. She has no powers to ignore.
I'm wondering if there is a spark of something to help Harry, something to do with his mum

HurricaneGirl
July 8th, 2005, 9:16 pm
I wasn't really quoating in reference to anyone. It just struck me as odd... And the fact that no one seemed to have any objections to the statement (of course they were all beginning to tune her out by that point - except Hermione). It's just that there are so many crazy thoeries on Petunia, I thought the question might best be posed in this thread.

I don't think Petunia is anything other than a muggle. I just hold out a glimmer of hope that she'll start to treat Harry in a more loving fashion. I think she has it in her, but is really scared. As far as I'm concerned, she seems like the prime canidate to do magic under desperate circimstances, but she also seems to be a prime target for LV. Honestly, I think Petunia may redeem herself somewhat in Harry's eyes, though she may not be alive after the fact.

teo
July 10th, 2005, 7:39 am
What I am wondering about is the Mrs. Skower's Magical Mess Clearer, It was mentioned two times in GoF, I think Petunia has a couple of cans of this at 4 Privet Drive....

So do you think that Mrs. Skower's can be used without magic? Clearly, Petunia is not cleaning the house magically, as she is, as JKR says, a Muggle. Whether or not she is only choosing to live as a Muggle, she can't be doing any magic "at this time".

Probably Dumbledore pointed out the protection which applied to Harry might also apply to dear little Duddykins, and that if Harry went unprotected, so would Diddydums.

This is a very good point. We know that Voldemort and the Death Eaters did Muggle killings, and what better Muggles to go after than the relatives of the boy who defeated (temporarily) Voldemort? Another thing to consider is that we still don't know what happened to Lily and Petunia's parents. If they were killed by Voldemort/Death Eaters, Petunia may well have been more than willing to take in Harry if it meant protecting her own family, especially Duddy Dinkums. Petunia may well know about the potential threat to her family if Harry were to leave permanently (again, this is hinted at in OotP).

Nicole
July 10th, 2005, 1:10 pm
So do you think that Mrs. Skower's can be used without magic?
Argus Filch uses it without magic; he's a Squib, which means he has no magic to use...

okeefeshaun
July 10th, 2005, 1:17 pm
I cant see Petunia being a squib but I suppose it is a possibility. Because all of the Weasleys are wizards/witches and Harrys mum was a witch so the possibility that Petunia is a squid is a possibility, and when I was reading OofTP, I thought that we were going to find out Petunias secret was going to be that she was a witch, I was extremely disappointed when I found out it werent. :(

teo
July 10th, 2005, 5:45 pm
Argus Filch uses it without magic; he's a Squib, which means he has no magic to use...

Good point...once again, it has been exposed that I've only read the books twice and am horrible with small details like this. Dumbledore is probably supplying Petunia with cases of Mrs. Skower's and firewhiskey in exchange for keeping Harry.

HedwigOwl
July 11th, 2005, 6:02 am
I cant see Petunia being a squib but I suppose it is a possibility.(

JKR has said that Petunia is not a squib, either. Just a muggle.

Nicuria
August 4th, 2005, 3:24 am
There are so many great ideas in here. :eyebrows:

I too believe Harry to be a descendent of Godric Gryffindor. It makes perfect sense to me. But getting to the Petunia topic...I haven't given her much thought...other than, What an awful woman! But now that I've read all of this...I think that you guys have something here. I can totally see her being jealous over Lily's abilities, especially if their parents are constantly fawning (is this the right word...anyway...) over Lily's abilities (though I think that would be very inconsiderate of them). :sad: I would like to see Petunia use magic sometime in the future...guess there's only one more book for that to happen...but it'd be very cool. However, I think she'd done too much damage (emotional) to Harry for him to ever forgive her (too much too late...if that's the case).

Anyway, thanks for letting a newbie like me comment. :cool:

And oh yeah...like the 4 Privit Drive theories too.

volshebnik
August 4th, 2005, 3:48 am
Okay, well my goal was to read this whole thread but I got to page 4 and just skipped to the last page. Me=lazy bum. Anywho, I really like some of the ideas you all are going for, some have really sparked me as possible.

As for Harry being GG relative, wouldn't it bring some interest? [Sorry if this has been brought up already] But with the founders SS and GG had their difference in opinion, pure-bloods and half-blood and muggles basically. I'm sure it would be safe to say they had their fair amounts of fights. Now that LV is back in power, as the only SS descendant, odd that he would once again bring these fights through a GG heir? It would be like history repeating itself. Yeah, Maybe I don't make any sense here, got a lot floating around my mind since I read all those. What do you all think though?

ComicBookWorm
August 4th, 2005, 3:50 am
Okay, well my goal was to read this whole thread but I got to page 4 and just skipped to the last page. Me=lazy bum. Anywho, I really like some of the ideas you all are going for, some have really sparked me as possible.

As for Harry being GG relative, wouldn't it bring some interest? [Sorry if this has been brought up already] But with the founders SS and GG had their difference in opinion, pure-bloods and half-blood and muggles basically. I'm sure it would be safe to say they had their fair amounts of fights. Now that LV is back in power, as the only SS descendant, odd that he would once again bring these fights through a GG heir? It would be like history repeating itself. Yeah, Maybe I don't make any sense here, got a lot floating around my mind since I read all those. What do you all think though?
Hi. How about using the standard forum font instead of one so small. I can't read it since I have vision problems. I am sure there are others on the forum with similar problems.

hothotheat
August 5th, 2005, 12:34 am
oooohhh. I love this topic! I think we'd better find out something about her in bk 7 or else.....

DrLazy_89
August 5th, 2005, 10:42 pm
I think that Aunt Petunia could of been at Godrics Hollow the night that Lily and James were murdered that would make perfect sense for beign who she is. I think that after the intervie (Melissa/Emmerson interview) there was someone else at Godric's Hollow the night the Potter's were murdered. I don't think she is a witch, if she is a normal muggle then, but on the negative side didn't Harry get delivered to the Durley's that same night?

*I'm saying that she could of been there not that she was, because I have other possible guesses of who it could be.

raze
August 6th, 2005, 4:31 am
does anyone remember in OotP the howler she was sent by DD saying

'remember your last, Petunia' which persuades her to keep Harry. I know we learn about the ancient magic protecting Harry in the house but this statement seems to point to something else entirely - some sort of event or even person.

a_lexus21
August 6th, 2005, 6:27 am
Hello every one im a bit new to this ,, threories on Aunt petunia
1.) She Most definatly know more than she lets on.
2.)Deep down i I feel She is going to reveil something in this next book about her self Or Lily because we rea;;y dont know anything prudent about harry's parent yet like what kinda magic they did. Sloughourne gaves little cluse but we still dont konw what his parents are capable of least of all lily. the way slughorn went on about her she sound bloody brilliant. And with some one that great in your family Petunia had to have some rub off on her. BUt i like dumbledore always look to find the good in people and i could be totally wrong, Cause i still have HIgh HIgh hope for SNAPE.

BooRadley
August 6th, 2005, 6:37 am
There is more to the Petunia Dursley thing then meets the eye. What, I cannot say. We know that she is important because as long as Harry is close to her at least once a year while he is a boy, he cannot be harmed because of the blood they share. Maybe that is all there is to it, or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out in book 7.

s0ng0han
August 6th, 2005, 11:07 am
petunia is NOT a squib.:no: her parents weren't pue-bloods like in filches case, but muggle born.
i think in the last book petunia might do some magic. out of desperation. i think that death eaters might come for harry when he comes of age and she will do something drastic. jk rowling said theres more to her than meets the eye. and that she's NOT a squib.

bieraubeurre
August 6th, 2005, 11:23 am
i always look for a good side of a man, so this is my theory:

petunia is a muggle, i think she loved lilly, like every sister do, and now she hates wizarding world beacause without it lilly would be still alive... and it explains her attitude towards harry - she knows that lilly died because of him - and he reminds her llily - so it is hard for petunia to treat him normally... and i a way she for sure loves him - she is trying to keep him out of wizarding world so he won't die

qwho
August 10th, 2005, 2:39 am
I think there might be something in this. We know that at the beginning of PS/SS, Petunia and Lily had not met "for several years" so Petunia's hatred of the magical world came before Liliy's death. It might be that she resented the magical world for taking her sister away from her. Perhaps there was a time when she and Lily were close, but they drifted apart as Lily became absorbed in her new world and life. She might also be mad at Lily for dying (I've heard of it before in the real world).

b3belamb
August 10th, 2005, 2:49 am
I think there's definitely something else about Petunia Dursley. I have a feeling something about her knowledge about the wizarding book will still be revealed come book 7.

fr33dmfry
August 10th, 2005, 2:59 am
Petunia loved a wizard friend of Lily and that love was not reciprocated so any magical abilities she may have had could have been stunted due to unrequited love. But when her family is threatened I think she will get her magic in full force. Besides if DD wanted her to remember his last there had to be other letters. I think she has a deal going with DD and it may include magic.

Islandkiwi
August 10th, 2005, 3:26 am
What if Snape and Petunia had a relationship together? Kind of like a double date. :p

It would have to have occurred during Lilly's school years. Perhaps this was one reason Lilly rushes to Snape's defense? Snape then leaves her, knowing that by following LV he can have no attachments to Muggles. Then when James and Lilly die, he realized how close he had come to harming Petunia, and swore to be good from then on....which is why Dumbledore trusts him so much.

missypotter
August 10th, 2005, 4:56 am
This is a very good point. We know that Voldemort and the Death Eaters did Muggle killings, and what better Muggles to go after than the relatives of the boy who defeated (temporarily) Voldemort? Another thing to consider is that we still don't know what happened to Lily and Petunia's parents. If they were killed by Voldemort/Death Eaters, Petunia may well have been more than willing to take in Harry if it meant protecting her own family, especially Duddy Dinkums. Petunia may well know about the potential threat to her family if Harry were to leave permanently (again, this is hinted at in OotP).

I think she has been glad of the protection her family has enjoyed while the enchantment existed. I think she understands that it works both ways.

JKR says somewhere Petunia is a Muggle. That ends that. JKR does say there is more about her than we know and it has not been revealed to my knowledge. So I think even though she is a Muggle, she has had more involvement in the wizarding world than we know.

Daelin
September 20th, 2005, 4:25 pm
There is one, you know.

In PS/SS, right there in the 1st chapter ("The Boy Who Lived"), Vernon Dursley sees a cat reading a map at the corner of his street as he leaves for work. We know a short while later that this cat is in fact Professor McGonagall. Consider the sequence:

[] McGonagall shows up before Dumbledore (who was not expecting her), before Hagrid shows up with Harry (and McGonagall was not expecting Harry to be brought to the Dursley's house), and spends all day sitting on the garden wall watching #4 Privet Drive. Why?

[] We know from JKR's comments that there is no hidden secret to Vernon or Dudley, so that leaves Petunia. What is Petunia's secret?

[] McGonagall has to read a map and check the street sign to find the house, so she hasn't been there before. She is not comfortable being seen, so she stays as a cat until late at night, and even then only after DD puts out all the streetlights. Why is McGonagall so wary of being seen, possibly recognized?

[] Everyone else in the Muggle world that day was either celebrating, or on a mission. What was the reason for McGonagall's trip to Privet Drive, and why isn't she more pleased by LV's disappearance?

Wand_Waver94
September 20th, 2005, 9:29 pm
There is nothing strange and or abnormal about Aunt Petunia because don't you think that J. K. would have said something about it by now I mean there are six out of seven!

deniserogue
September 20th, 2005, 9:29 pm
[] We know from JKR's comments that there is no hidden secret to Vernon or Dudley, so that leaves Petunia. What is Petunia's secret?

JK probably said she was a muggle but i think she was a squib. she knew the dementors right? that was in OotP, right when Harry went home after the attack. she said that she heard Lily telling James about them demntors but i think that's only an alibi. :p

Ariadne86
September 20th, 2005, 9:49 pm
I didn't read through all 10 pages, but I know in an interview that JK said that "Petunia's not a squib but...." So there is something more to her than meets the eye.

sirius_gerl
September 20th, 2005, 10:05 pm
I think we will find out something important about Aunt Petunia sometime in the 7th book. Actually, I'm sure most of our questions about Aunt Petunia will be answered.

Petunia could have heard about dementors from Lily and James, or from Dumbledore. She has probably been keeping in contact with him as well.

am3lia
September 20th, 2005, 10:07 pm
Well, McGonogall might have been relieved that LV was gone, but the Potters were dead. And she was their Professor and head of their house. Knowing McGonogall, she wouldn't all out party or start jumping around if she was excited about something.

She'd probably stay in cat form because wouldn't you do a double take or call the cops if some old lady was walking around your house for an entire day?


My theory on Petunia Dursley:
J.K. Rowling has said that someone will develop the ability to do magic later in life, I think in book seven we are going to see Petunia Dursley obtain the gift. Maybe after Harry leaves and she is left to protect her family from death eaters? Some accidental magic will come out of her? Sounds like a good fanfic to me :) What do you guys think?

Ariadne86
September 21st, 2005, 3:44 am
I think it is very possible that Petunia will do magic in the final book. After all there is definately more to here than meets the eye (unlike dudley!) But I guess only time will tell.

deniserogue
September 21st, 2005, 6:36 pm
probably. maybe it will DD who guide them, since harry said that DD won't leave if someone is still loyal to him. :p

scariusHagrid
September 23rd, 2005, 4:28 pm
Ive always thought there was something strange about Aunt Petunia. she says she hates magic and everything to do with it, and calls her sister a "freak".
but she knows what dementors are and remembers about Azkaban, even though she heard Lilly and James talking about it over 13 years ago.
ive always wondered if she is a secret keeper????(for Harry)
voldemort can never find Harry as long as he calls Privet Drive home, but maybe petunia is his secret keeper so LV cant find him.
what do you think?

teo
September 23rd, 2005, 5:01 pm
Ive always thought there was something strange about Aunt Petunia. she says she hates magic and everything to do with it, and calls her sister a "freak".
but she knows what dementors are and remembers about Azkaban, even though she heard Lilly and James talking about it over 13 years ago.
ive always wondered if she is a secret keeper????(for Harry)
voldemort can never find Harry as long as he calls Privet Drive home, but maybe petunia is his secret keeper so LV cant find him.
what do you think?

I always figured that a secret-keeper would have to be a witch or wizard since there's magic involved in the spell, but we don't know that for sure. I recall Dumbledore saying that it's the "blood protection" of the Dursleys that keeps Harry safe, but there could be a secret-keeper spell going on as well (I forget the name of the spell itself).

As for the Dementors, I'm of the opinion that Petunia is not being totally honest about her past. I wouldn't be surprised if she was also very excited to have a witch in the family and learned a lot from Lily about the Wizarding World when they were children. Then, there would have been some event that ocurred that frightened or angered Petunia to the point where she is when we first meet her in the books.

Ariadne86
September 23rd, 2005, 9:13 pm
That's an interesting thought that she might be Harry's secret keeper. I suppose it would be possible, but it's a slim chance. I wonder if we'll ever find out what exactly Dumbledore did for Harry's protection. I'm interested to see what will happen when Harry turns 17 and the blood protection goes away. I have a feeling that Petunia knows exactly what will happen. I can't wait to see what will be revealed about her.

Rithiel
September 23rd, 2005, 9:45 pm
I agree that it is very possible that Petunia was much more interested in magic at one point in her life than she is now. In all of Harry's encounters with his aunt and uncle, I see Vernon as the one who is very anti-magic, while Petunia kind of just lets it happen. The only time (as far as I can remember) when she really steps in to say anything is after Dumbledore sends her the Howler, and then its in Harry's defense. But Vernon is the one who drags them away in the beginning of book one, and is the most antagonistic towards magic.

Could Petunia's dislike of magic be influenced by Vernon? Could it have happened latter in life, once she met him? Then again, this could be wishful thinking, because I don't want Petunia to be as horrible as she sounds.

Ariadne86
September 23rd, 2005, 11:49 pm
I think the key thing here is that Vernon is the one trying to squash the magic out of Harry, he is always the one yelling at him and worrying what the neighbors will think. Petunia is usually in the background not saying a word. And I've always wondered what she was going to say in SS/PS when Vernon says that he won't let Harry go to hogwarts and Petunia keeps saying "but" and gets cut off by Vernon. And I've also wondered if maybe she keeps a watch on the neighborhood for Dumbledore, or does something for him since she is always spying on the neighbors.

Rythmelody
September 24th, 2005, 4:31 am
Wow, what a lot to read through and so many theories to contend with!

For what it's worth here's my thoughts -

I totally agree with the Godric Gryffindor idea, i think it would make perfect sense for Harry to be a descendant of his. Given the 'only a true Gryffindor' comment from DD i think he meant 'true Gryffindor' literally and not just in House name. As we know so little about Harry's Grandparents and ancestry it's quite possible.

I also agree with the idea that Petunia was jealous of Lily, as someone else mentioned, when a person is jealous of something/one they do tend to be dismissive or vindictive towards it as a way of hiding the jealousy.

I personally don't beleive that Petunia is a squib/witch. A muggle is a non-magical person and it's been made quite clear that she is a muggle, if she had magical abilities she would of attended Hogwarts along with Lily. I don't think she would of supressed them, as i said above, i think she was jealous of Lily, and would of loved to have had her gift. I personally think it's information that Petunia holds, information about Lily and James, or their family history, which will be of great importance to Harry, and could ultimately put her and her family in danger. I don't see why because she knows about LV, the DE's and Azkaban she has to have magical powers herself. If she grew up with a witch in her family it makes sense that she would know about these things. I know all about the Celtic Fire Festivals because my cousin is a practicing witch (for real), but that doesn't make me one.

It seem obvious to me though that she has had contact with DD as mentioned before ('remember my last') and she may well have got information about the wizarding world from him. He must of known the secret(s) she is keeping and did what he could to help her hide it.

There's most definitely more to her than we currently know, but as i've said i think it's knowledge and information she holds, not magic.

ESCUDERO
September 24th, 2005, 4:39 am
wouldn't it be crazy if the dursley finally got what they deserved in the seventh book and got killed by death eaters or if on;y dudley and harry survived the attack and dudley joined the horcrux hunting team

eVaNeScEnCe
September 24th, 2005, 5:34 am
JK probably said she was a muggle but i think she was a squib. she knew the dementors right? that was in OotP, right when Harry went home after the attack. she said that she heard Lily telling James about them demntors but i think that's only an alibi. :p


JKR did confirm that Petunia overheard a conversation with Lily about Dementors, and I think it is the nature of that conversation (apart from the dementors) that will be connected to the big Petunia revelation in book 7. I have a hunch there is more to that conversation than meets the way; it seems to be as shrouded in mystery as Petunia. Who was the one Lily was talking to? When did it take place? What else were they talking about? So many questions, so many possibilities. :cool:

Bull3t
September 24th, 2005, 6:07 pm
If she was a Squib that certianley would give her reasone to be sour towards Jame's and Lily, but how can that be if Lily was the first Witch in the family?

sirius_gerl
September 25th, 2005, 4:52 pm
I don't think Petunia is a squib. Petunia didn't like Lily and James because Lily was getting a lot of attention from the family, and Petunia was shunted to one side. But, maybe there's more to it.

I assumed that Lily was talking to James...maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be logical since Petunia didn't know any other wizards...??

Bull3t
September 25th, 2005, 5:03 pm
Yeah that is the logical answer. I wonder whether Petunia knows anything else about the wizarding world.