Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion #9

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INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.

Enjoy!
Version eight (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=45191).

Good digging Meesha1971. I wonder, from all of your digging though, who you think the HBP might be?

Originally posted by Elder Granger: Gryffindor doesn't have to be alive to be the HBP. In fact, it is most improbable that he is. His story could be an integral and interesting part of the plot without him being around in the current time frame and without necessitating time travel. He could appear in a portrait or a pensieve (less likely) or something of that ilk...

But this still doesn't fit the criteria: the HBP is half-blood. Godric was, almost certainly pureblood. The pure lines didn't have enough breaks yet. Sirius says in Order that the pure lines are beginning to die because of inter-marraige. Plus, I get the impression that the HBP will be someone who is alive now.

Thanks! :blush: I don't have any idea who the HBP is. I originally thought it might be Justin Finch-Fletchly because it was pointed out that he was supposed to go to Eton in COS - but he's muggle-born, not half-blood.

One thing I did think of though was the chapter Draco's Detour. What if his "detour" is to the kitchen's? If Dobby reveals the Malfoy's secrets, Draco would want revenge.

Before this thread was reincarnated in it's new edition, the question was asked a couple of times how Gryffindor could be a half-blood. Even back then purebloods would have been intermarrying with muggle-borns (because people fall in love regardless of background). In fact the reason Gryffindor was more accepting of muggle-borns may have been his heritage. The conflict with Slytherin was over this intolerance, but the other founders didn't seem to have a problem with bloodlines so there is no reason to automatically assume that Gryffindor was a pureblood.

Edit: BTW for those who insist that Snape must be the HBP, I think I provided fairly decent proof that JKR thinks of him as a pureblood in the last thread. So unless you think both the title of "prince" and the title of "half-blood" are perjorative, I doubt it is him. We certainly have enough real half-bloods in the stories to not have to use the title of half-blood as an insult for a pureblood.

JKR isn't going to have a fake title for the book. There was a real Goblet, there was a real Stone, there was a real Prisoner, and there was a real Order. I think we as readers would feel ripped off if the HBP was neither a half-blood nor a prince since it would feel like a contrived title if it wasn't real. And this would be the first time the title of the book was not a real person(s) or object in the book.

Yeah a new thread :D

Only if this thread had more callaborative information...

So is it right to say that we can assume that there was intermarriage going on 1000 years ago?

Hmmm, you know how Riddle was half-blood yet he was heir to Slytherin, well we only know that he is half-blood at this point and not his mother etc (especially if his mother never knew she was carrying the bloodline of SS). But it is more obvious that SS's line should be pureblood. And if GG is the HBP and there also was intermarriage, there couldn't have been too much or the bloodline would hardly carry a trace of GG's blood. Or is it somewhat more figurative in a way?

WOW!!! great list!!! Thanks for not making me read all the other threads. I really don't know who the HBP could be. I love some of the ideas and will think and re-read the list again and come back. Some very good points.

I think the theory on Trevor could be true. In every book we hear about that Toad(Like Scabbers). And we seen two people be transfigured Dudley(Hagrid try to turn him into a pig,) and Malfoy. Also alot of stories has a princess kissing a frog who turns into a prince. Not that it has anything to do with this theory. I just think Trevor is very possible. But the question now Who could Trevor be?

THough it has been argued that Rowling wouldn't do another animagus thing (like Wormtail)...

I think the theory on Trevor could be true. In every book we hear about that Toad(Like Scabbers). And we seen two people be transfigured Dudley(Hagrid try to turn him into a pig,) and Malfoy. Also alot of stories has a princess kissing a frog who turns into a prince. Not that it has anything to do with this theory. I just think Trevor is very possible. But the question now Who could Trevor be?


Good theory... wonder who the "Princess" or savior would be?

He wouldn't really be an animagus. Someone might of turned him into a Frog and He can't be who he truly until someone finds out how to undo the spell. It wouldn't be the same as Rita Skeeter and Wormtail. She does use the same type of plot line alot just in different forms. I think it's very possible, How many times does she have to mention a toad? He is mention more then scabbers and crookshanks.

To all members,

As some of you maybe aware, MuggleNet (http://www.mugglenet.com/) is reporting that several British news sites have possibly worked out the death of a major character in the forthcoming book AND have also worked out who the Half-Blood Prince really is.

Now, please understand that this constitutes a 'spoiler' from an unofficial source and is unlikely to be confirmed by JK or her publishers. Therefore please note our policy regarding spoilers on CoS Forums (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=48290).

Should you post in any part of the site details of this spoiler, you will be warned one warning point. Anyone who continues to post about the spoiler will have further action taken against them


Finally if you do click on the links MuggleNet has put up, you will have the potential spoiler revealed to you straight away.

Thank you


The CoS Staff.

they were creatures in their own will though, what your talking about is transfiguring and yes it seems when someone casts it on someone else, that person can't change back (as we have seen with Crouch sr.) But Crookshanks would have known that Trevor was a human as the cat pointed out in PoA with Scabbers, if Trevor was that important then perhaps Rowling would have slipped in a piece saying something like "Crookshanks eyed Trevor the toad." Or something like that...and neither would I think it would be the HBP...

EDIT: Thanks for the head up Morgoth :)

I still think Trevor is possible, maybe Crookshanks and Trevor don't meet much, or maybe Crookshanks don't care cause he isn't bad like Wormtail.

Who do you think The HBP is?

I had my speculations for Snape (more like a slander name), but I'm willing to think it is Godric Gryffindor at any rate...

they were creatures in their own will though, what your talking about is transfiguring and yes it seems when someone casts it on someone else, that person can't change back (as we have seen with Crouch sr.) But Crookshanks would have known that Trevor was a human as the cat pointed out in PoA with Scabbers, if Trevor was that important then perhaps Rowling would have slipped in a piece saying something like "Crookshanks eyed Trevor the toad." Or something like that...and neither would I think it would be the HBP...

EDIT: Thanks for the head up Morgoth :)
No, not really. Crookshanks is part kneezle, and as such has an ubility to sense questionable characters. Not ALL secrets. If Trevor is harmless, Crookshanks instinkts will not alert him. He is highly intelligent, though, and might guess more than humans; but unless he choses to warn his masters of a danger, it will not become known. The best example is Sirius: Crookshanks knew his secret, and knew that he was not dangerous. He did not betray him in any way, and the only reason we know about it is that Sirius told Harry himself. True, Harry saw Crookshanks with Sirius on occasion, but only because they had some common business to conduct and had to spend time together. It might not be so with Trevor, on the contrary, trevor might wish Crookshanks to keep his secret.

I used to think it was Godric, then a few people shot down my theory. So, I went on to Trevor. I don't think it's Snape at all.

Yeah that would interesting :D an animal/identity pact...Sounds cool though...

Good theory... wonder who the "Princess" or savior would be?

I vote for Ginny! (Unless she's involved with Neville...that would be a triangle of a different color! LOL :rotfl: )

HBP - I have no idea.....but I get the feeling he will be older than the studens...possibly around 40 ish??? :huh: :eyebrows:

thats what were not sure of, the excerpt of the lion-man could be anybody...

I used to think it was Godric, then a few people shot down my theory. So, I went on to Trevor. I don't think it's Snape at all.

If you take a look at the list you'll see that Godric is very much a viable candidate :)

Also, just as a general comment and not directed specifically to you but it's very helpful for the purposes of discussion if you give reasons for your opinions rather than just stating the opinion itself :)

Hmmmmmmm....Well I assume SS's line was pure until Riddle's mother got pregnant with Tom (I'm assuming here!) so I imagine it would still be quite concentrated so to speak. Also, does it even matter if one's blood is too 'diluted' from SS (or GG, or whoever)? You would still have some dna patterns the same. Moreover, everyone's blood is different anyway. Maybe it is just something magical - something in the blood can 'detect' or carries the parseltongue gene, or whatever.

That whole paragraph was just my confused thoughts, so it might be a little.......confusing.

I was just thinking something (other than that cerebral mess above). What if the HBP simply did not exist? It was a legend, or a myth, that carries a message or secret or moral that Harry has to find out. This is higly improabale I know, but hey, why not share ALL my confused thoughts with you happy people.

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

:D

Confused thoughts can always be happy.

One thing also, does their have to be an heir? I understand that there was an heir for SS because someone had to open the chamber of secrets etc.

But what would the purpose of a GG heir be?

Just to update you all on the latest developments concerning the leak over who the HBP is. Bloomsbury have e-mailed MuggleNet the following:


J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

Thats good that they are confirming such in that way...Thnaks :)

Thanks, Morgoth! I think we were all following JKR's website advice on this one, anyway!

Could be to open another part of the Castle. I doubt this though, it seems too repetitive of Book 2. WE don't have any canon to supprt the HoG do we? Maybe his line died out, though I do think it would have symmetry in the book to have an HoS and an HoG.

Maybe the purpose would be that the HoG would have a special 'power' (for lack of a better word), like Slytherin's parseltongue, it could be Griffindor's laserbeam eyes or something. (well, you get what I mean!)

Or, if the HoG and the HBP are one and the same, it could be that The HBP would have a lot of money through inheritence (if this is the inherited proince title type) and as the HoG, we would assume him to be good, so it could be used to bribe poeple/creatures that might turn to Voldy otherwise, like Goblins and other creatures along those lines.

THats actually given me a thought, because the HBP most likely is half-blood to begin with wouldn't the HBP be inherently good? Seeing as it is the main title's name???

Also on a side note, from what I wrote, it does not mean that only half-bloods are nice and pure-bloods are not...I am just stating wether or not the titled name is good or bad...

But the 'Chamber of Secrets' was created by Slytherin, and it was thought of in fear, and that's where the basilisk was housed, so shouldn;t the Book 2 title be classed evil? Or at least bad? If so, then why shouldn't a book 6 title be about something or someone evil? Saying that though, it would feature more if he was good, because Harry or at least someone Harry knew would interact with him somehow, and as this is the boooks title, you'd think it would be featured failry heavily.

Yeah it seems that the HBP would have to be good, because the series is coming to a close and Harry is probably on the brink of going insane, so what a little extra help?

Indeed :p I think all it takes to push Harry off the edge of sanity would be someone saying 'boo' behind his back, now.

I think the HBP is introduced this late in the books (even if it is an existing character) is to provide information for the Order and/or Harry that DD either can't or won't give. This also leads to another question about what the information is, but that is neither here nor there...

So anyway, that's another reason why the HBP is proabaly good. Another one is that being the title of the book, he must be pretty major, and being on the evil side could overshadow Voldemort. There's no worry about Harry being overshadowed if the HBP is good though, because the main character of the books is HArry, and as we see it from Harry's point of view, it's technically impossible for anyone to overshadow Harry.

I haven't been following this discussion from the beginning but I did read the first post of this thread.

The list of potential/non-potential people seems to cover just about every male character there is. It doesn't say anything about Mr. Lovegood though. I am not saying that I believe Mr. Lovegood is the HPB but maybe they will report something in the Quibbler that will get that whole subject started. "HPB has been sighted" or something that gets everyone aware that he is out there.

Just a thought.:)

Hmmm, a thought! The heir of Gryffindor (HoG) goes to Hogwarts! :eyebrows:

Sorry, coulldn't resist. Probably too frivolous for this thread.

Anyway, I think the Half-Blood Prince is someone new.
The Chamber of Secrets was a new place.
The Prisoner of Azkaban was a new character.
The Goblet of Fire was a New Thing
The Order of the Phoenix was something we never heard of before.

Now the question is "Is the HBP evil or good?"
We must remember the words of JKR in OotP 'The world isn't divided into good people and Death Eaters'. There are many shades of gray between black and white. Just because he is half-blood doesn't make him a 'muggle-lover'. Look at Voldy- he was half-blood but evil through and through. Even if he isn't on Voldy's side, that won't make him necessarily good. And Snape, there's a baddie if ever I saw one, but he's not evil. (Based at least on what I know.) I don't like him but he is on the side of the light.

With all these things running around in my brain I just can't make any predictions. :p . I doubt I'll know anything before I get the book on 16th July, 12:01 AM :)

Yeah a new thread :D

Only if this thread had more callaborative information...

So is it right to say that we can assume that there was intermarriage going on 1000 years ago?

Hmmm, you know how Riddle was half-blood yet he was heir to Slytherin, well we only know that he is half-blood at this point and not his mother etc (especially if his mother never knew she was carrying the bloodline of SS). But it is more obvious that SS's line should be pureblood. And if GG is the HBP and there also was intermarriage, there couldn't have been too much or the bloodline would hardly carry a trace of GG's blood. Or is it somewhat more figurative in a way?Well we can't know what it would have been about Gryffindor that Harry would inherit if GG is the HBP. Traits do get passed down generation from generation regardless of who they marry. Besides this thread is about the HBP and not the heir of Gryffindor.

THats actually given me a thought, because the HBP most likely is half-blood to begin with wouldn't the HBP be inherently good? Seeing as it is the main title's name???

Also on a side note, from what I wrote, it does not mean that only half-bloods are nice and pure-bloods are not...I am just stating wether or not the titled name is good or bad...


I think we are going to run into some half-bloods(other than YKW) that are not good and support You-know-who for some kind of gain This could easily be the case in the HBP. In addition, I would not be surprise to see a Good Slytherin, pure or not in the upcoming books. I don't think the HBP will be a Slytherin....because of the pure-blood agenda, but would not rule it out....Nott or Zabini.

I'm not staff, nor do I play one on TV. But someone just posted the supposed Mugglenet spoiler in this thread. And the attentive and dedicated CoS staff dealt with it swiftly... I'm sure they handed out whatever sanctions were appropriate.

Folks, could we please have the consideration and maturity not to post this information.

Hmmm perhaps if we look at this at a different angle (ok I may be thinking randomly...)

What would be beneficial of a HBP in the first place, lets say the HBP is the lion man at the moment, the lion man was described as someone with wise power... someone knowledgeable...

Just a thought...

Here is my plot line theory for the HBP.

We know The HBP story line was supposed to be in the CoS, but JK through it had too much information.

The CoS was based on a historical place, and I think HBP will be based on historical person. I think that person could be Godric. I know about all the reason why Godric can't be the prince, but I'm still not going to shoot it down. I think Godric is the prince because of the sword, and maybe Harry is the heir, and thats why he can pull the sword out of the hat. I do think HBP will be based on Harry finding the truth.

I think these are possible for being HBP
James Potter
Godric
Trevor the Toad
Dumbledore

I don't think these people are the HBP
Severus Snape
Dean Thomas
Remus Lupin

I think The HBP will give Harry the truth about his family.

Here is what JKR says about it

Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor? JKR: "People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is ;)"

I kind of thinking she was telling us Yes.

Err... If James was the HBP, then Harry would be one, too, right? Because his father is dead... and JKR said that he isn't HBP...

I guess your right, James isn't the HBP. Plus he is dead so I don't know how he could advance the plot, unless he is a ghost and Dumbledore told him to hide himself from Harry.

I was just thinking something (other than that cerebral mess above). What if the HBP simply did not exist? It was a legend, or a myth, that carries a message or secret or moral that Harry has to find out. This is higly improabale I know, but hey, why not share ALL my confused thoughts with you happy people.

Before the chamber was ever opened the story of the Chamber of Secrets could have been used as a tale to keep students from misbehaving ( i know HUGE stretch but i'm tired and this is a time to share confusing thoughts) so the myth of the half blood prince could be a story to promote house unity or wizard/muggle relations...until Harry, Ron, and Hermione prove it to be true.

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

I think it's a "new" character.
Prince would lead me to believe male but not necessarily human. Half-blood means they are half and half but does this still mean wizard? Possibly not.

I saw one person suggest that the HBP could be Mr. Lovegood, Luna's father. I also see someone else who is not on the list- Ludo Bagman. Both of these characters seem very goofy, one is not such a good person (Bagman), and the other just seems to be really misguided (Mr. Lovegood). I don't think either of these two are the HBP, it just struck me that it could be possible. Of course, as we don't know the lineage behind either character, it'd be easy for JKR to sneak one of these two in as the HBP.

I don't think it's Bagman, I doubt we will be seeing him again. Now Luna's dad is a good choice. We hardly know anything about him, but wouldn't that make Luna the Half-Blood Princess?

I'm confused on that one.

Here is what JKR says about it

Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor? JKR: "People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is ;)"

I kind of thinking she was telling us Yes.


WHere did she say this?

I had a thought last night, but I lost it :(

they were creatures in their own will though, what your talking about is transfiguring and yes it seems when someone casts it on someone else, that person can't change back (as we have seen with Crouch sr.) But Crookshanks would have known that Trevor was a human as the cat pointed out in PoA with Scabbers, if Trevor was that important then perhaps Rowling would have slipped in a piece saying something like "Crookshanks eyed Trevor the toad." Or something like that...and neither would I think it would be the HBP...

EDIT: Thanks for the head up Morgoth :)


I think Trevor is vital but not the HBP, there is a forum on Separate Souls. I think the soul of GG (who many believe to be the HBP) is in Fawks, and the soul of SS may be in trevor.
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=52202&highlight=soul

If she was hinting at 'yes' then this nugget of information will be important to the next book, otherwise there's no point JKR making a Harry a relative of GG.

Now, someone mentioned that their are neither one big category of 'good' or one of 'evil' but I what I meant by saying if The HBP was good or evil was that was he on Voldemort's or the OotP's side. I oversimplified.

Stretching it a bit here, if the HBP is lionman, then I think his main purpopse will be to provide Harry with information. I don;t know what this info will be, but that will be the HBP's main purpose. After all, DD is described as wise and old too, and what does he do most? Yep, give Harry (and therefore, us, the reader) information. Thus, the HBP, if it is lionman, will give us information that DD can't.

Yeah I would defiantley think so, it would make sense, but it also seems that the info would be more crudential at the end of book 6 and perhaps for the rest of #7, so perhaps we only get hints of the HBP throughout and then at the end we know/read who he is...etc

If Harry's related to Godric that might be going a little overboard with the previous message. We know he's special 'cause of choices, not abilities. We also know that pure-blood/half-blood/mudblood stuff is really nonsense. So what does it matter if Harry is related to someone like Godric? He still has to go it his own way (GG isn't going to come out of his wand like his parents did).

If Harry's related to Godric that might be going a little overboard with the previous message. We know he's special 'cause of choices, not abilities. We also know that pure-blood/half-blood/mudblood stuff is really nonsense. So what does it matter if Harry is related to someone like Godric? He still has to go it his own way (GG isn't going to come out of his wand like his parents did).

Thanks - that's what I tried to post , but I could never find the right words. Short, simple and convincing.

Hasn't all the book titles been huge challenges for Harry and some form of enemy? There is a possibility that the HBP is a bad guy... not necessarily a DE, of course. I agree, too that he may even be a mixed breed.

I don't have any ideas of whom yet... but it was just a thought.

Going on klhlamberts post... I'd say that is also very logical. But then again- he had to save the sorcerers stone, so perhaps he has to protect the half blood prince. That could be another way to look at it. Because I don't think that the HBP is going to be a bad guy.

There are not that many bad guys though that are death eaters, as also they are all pure blood...hmmm

Hasn't all the book titles been huge challenges for Harry and some form of enemy? There is a possibility that the HBP is a bad guy... not necessarily a DE, of course. I agree, too that he may even be a mixed breed.

I don't have any ideas of whom yet... but it was just a thought.
Let's see.
Philosopher stone: challenge, object of protection for Harry. NOT bad in itself.
Chamber of Secrets. Challenge, contains an evil being and controlled by an evil guy, but not really evil in itself.
PoA. A good guy, not really a challenge, though a mystery of huge emotional importance for Harry.
GoF. NOT a challenge in itself, though associated with the tournament (a challenge). NOT evil in any sense.
OotP. An organization that would not even permit Harry to become a member. Definitely not evil. Not exactly associated with the challenges Harry faces.

The bottom line - in most cases, the title items/persons/entities were never evil. They were, in various and unpredictable ways, associated with challenges Harry faced; however, the books themselves were about Harry's challenges, and titles could not help to be somehow related to them.

The bottom line - is HBP evil? No idea; but from the pattern of the titles, no. Will Harry face challenges in book 6? Sure he will, when didn't he. Will HBP relate to these challenges in some, perhaps distant way? Yep. Not much information, anyway.

I don't think the HBP is evil, I think he will be a good guy. Has anyone thought the HBP could be a painting like the fat lady? Maybe he was some great prince from along ago, and someone made a painting of him. Or maybe the HBP isn't a prince yet and he can't truly be a prince until the person who made him dies.

I don't think the HBP is evil, I think he will be a good guy. Has anyone thought the HBP could be a painting like the fat lady? Maybe he was some great prince from along ago, and someone made a painting of him. Or maybe the HBP isn't a prince yet and he can't truly be a prince until the person who made him dies.
Are you referring to the X-mass riddle? It said "can not become a king". Prince is a prince from the moment he is born - or married a princess :)

could there be a half blood prince in the first place, maybe (I just randomly thought of this) Slythterin called gryffindor a half-blood prince because GG always excepted HB's so in this way the HBO is still a good person but the name is slanderish...

Yah, I am. I don't know why that riddle keeps going through my head when I think of HBP.

could there be a half blood prince in the first place, maybe (I just randomly thought of this) Slythterin called gryffindor a half-blood prince because GG always excepted HB's so in this way the HBO is still a good person but the name is slanderish...

Maybe, Harry becomes best friends with a slytherin and Draco calls Harry's friend the HBP. Stupid idea I know.

it could be to that affect but perhaps in the past, and not necissairly as a friend, perhpas it would be like another name for "mudblood" but this HBP has more importance even though they have been slandered, in whatever point in time...

could there be a half blood prince in the first place, maybe (I just randomly thought of this) Slythterin called gryffindor a half-blood prince because GG always excepted HB's so in this way the HBO is still a good person but the name is slanderish...


I read earlier in the thread that it would be unlikely that any of the Origional Heads were anything but Pureblood... do you think Slytherin would associate with Half-Bloods? I tend to agree with this. He was very set in his ways to have acted the way he did with the Chamber of Secrets.

could there be a half blood prince in the first place, maybe (I just randomly thought of this) Slythterin called gryffindor a half-blood prince because GG always excepted HB's so in this way the HBO is still a good person but the name is slanderish...
Well, Slythering is not the person who gave the title to the book. Why would his insults make their way here? If something/someone is called this or that in the title of the book written by JKR from HP point of view, it is something Harry himself would call that. So far, all the titles were precise and literate descriptions of the most important feature of the item/person in the title, not some forgotten nickname one dead person gave another long ago. Harry does not care about blood, and does not need to insult GG (or anyone, for that matter). Therefore, HBP is exactly that : a half blood prince. And it is the most prominent characteristic of his. For me, it disqualifies both DD and GG: they are great wizards, and already known to Harry for their deeds. No new information about their blood or royal connections would change his opinion of them or make him address to them as HBP.

I read earlier in the thread that it would be unlikely that any of the Origional Heads were anything but Pureblood... do you think Slytherin would associate with Half-Bloods? I tend to agree with this. He was very set in his ways to have acted the way he did with the Chamber of Secrets.
Yeah, I think this argument is already in Jessica's list. I myself was pushing it a few months ago :p

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

But I wonder why we know so little about the founders, could it be that they are just not important enough... It does sound as though the HBP will be a new character...

EDIT: lol it just came on as you mentioned it...its like magic...*crazy non intened pun :D*

I think the fonders are going to be in HBP. I think Dumbledore is showing Harry more about the fonders in the Pensive on HBP Cover.

I think the fonders are going to be in HBP. I think Dumbledore is showing Harry more about the fonders in the Pensive on HBP Cover.

That was my original idea..maybe not the first, but the first I stuck with. But then I got thinking, maybe it is Snape. People are always telling Harry to call him Professor, and Dumbledore trusts him. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but yeah. I think the HBP is either Godric, or Snape. Maybe Dumbledore thrown in there. But that is what I have narrowed it down to. And I know I'm wrong. :D

I read earlier in the thread that it would be unlikely that any of the Origional Heads were anything but Pureblood... do you think Slytherin would associate with Half-Bloods? I tend to agree with this. He was very set in his ways to have acted the way he did with the Chamber of Secrets.
But what if he didn't know Gryffindor was a half-blood? What if Gryffindor didn't know it? Gryffindor could have been abandoned at birth.

And backstory about Gryffindor could have easily been in CoS, but it wouldn't have been needed for the story about Slytherin and the Basilisk. The book touched on the split between the founders and could have easily told us more.

But what if he didn't know Gryffindor was a half-blood? What if Gryffindor didn't know it? Gryffindor could have been abandoned at birth.

And backstory about Gryffindor could have easily been in CoS, but it wouldn't have been needed for the story about Slytherin and the Basilisk. The book touched on the split between the founders and could have easily told us more.


You know, that is a good point. That could be the reason that Slytherin left. I realize they had some kind of rift...

But what if he didn't know Gryffindor was a half-blood? What if Gryffindor didn't know it? Gryffindor could have been abandoned at birth.

And backstory about Gryffindor could have easily been in CoS, but it wouldn't have been needed for the story about Slytherin and the Basilisk. The book touched on the split between the founders and could have easily told us more.

Maybe he just didn't care. Maybe Slytherin didn't hate non-purebloods, but just wanted to allow only them in. He didn't have to hate everyone who was half-blood. He was their friend, so they might not have mattered to him.

Just what I think though. I doubt that they all were pureblood, even though it is such a big possibility. It was a long time ago, so they weren't as limited as they are in the present time. :shrug:

But what if he didn't know Gryffindor was a half-blood? What if Gryffindor didn't know it? Gryffindor could have been abandoned at birth.

And backstory about Gryffindor could have easily been in CoS, but it wouldn't have been needed for the story about Slytherin and the Basilisk. The book touched on the split between the founders and could have easily told us more.


Yes, I definitely think the storythread taken out of CoS was about the founders, particularly GG and SS I am thinking, but I'm still as yet undecided as to whther the HBP is one of the founders (i.e. GG) or not.

I still want to believe it's Snape I do!

Yes, I definitely think the storythread taken out of CoS was about the founders, particularly GG and SS I am thinking, but I'm still as yet undecided as to whther the HBP is one of the founders (i.e. GG) or not.

I still want to believe it's Snape I do!

I want to think its Godric, but I just can't. Something is telling me that it's Snape..

I think there is still a chance Gryffindor could be the HBP. He didn't have to tell the other fonders he is Half-Blood. . I want to know why people think it could be Snape. I don't think it's him, but I could be wrong.

There is a lot of 'evidence' (stuff that poeple have interpreted as evidence, however, and I'm onw of them, lol) that points towards Snape being the HBP, and a lot of theories about his past that could be easily explained by naming him the HBP.

I basically just wish it's him because it would be utterly excellant to have Snape as a central plot character! YAY!

I think there is still a chance Gryffindor could be the HBP. He didn't have to tell the other fonders he is Half-Blood. . I want to know why people think it could be Snape. I don't think it's him, but I could be wrong.

People are always telling Harry to call him Professor, not that it is THAT important, but I think it could have something to do with it being him. We hear alot about him, and he does sort of have a big part in the books, as a minor character. And, Dumbledore trusts him, and we have yet to find out why.

I don't know what's making me think the HBP is Snape, but something is telling me he is. I just don't know what. These things don't even like..effect why I somehow think it's him though.. :)

There is a lot of 'evidence' (stuff that poeple have interpreted as evidence, however, and I'm onw of them, lol) that points towards Snape being the HBP, and a lot of theories about his past that could be easily explained by naming him the HBP.

I basically just wish it's him because it would be utterly excellant to have Snape as a central plot character! YAY!

Yeah, alot could be filled in by him being the HBP. But then there is always that thing of him maybe being Pureblood. If he isn't, then why was he in Slytherin? What made him special enough to be in Slytherin?

Maybe, Snape is the Prince of Vampires then. He mom could of been half vampire and half muggle and his dad a wizard. I could explain why Snape is so cold. But didn't JKR say their isn't a link with Snape and Vampire? Also on the adult Harry Potter cover is a potion book. Could it mean Snape is the HBP? I think it there were only pure bloods in slytherin, their would be hardly any students. I think they do have half-bloods in that house.
I guess we all will find out in 1 month and 16 days. I can't wait.

could it be the same case as in Tom Riddle/Voldemort, he is half blood but was put in slytherin...but of course that was most in part of being the heir....

This is what JKR said about Snape's heritage at the Edinburgh Book Festival. Also, is he a pure blood wizard?
Snape’s ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there. Well since the only hint we have is when he called Lily a mudblood, I would have to guess that she means he is a pureblood. There is no way we could draw the inference that he is a half-blood or muggle-born from the Pensieve scene. And that scene is the only hint we have.

Remember, its our choices that determine where we are placed. Harry chose to go into Griffindor. Snape chose to be in Slytherin. The reason why most people are pureblood in Slytherin is that we can assume that the kids that really wanted to be in Slytherin were mostly those whose parents believed in pureblood supremacy, thus being pureblood themselves (by their own standards.)and putting more pureblood kids in Slytherin. Also, the children of these children could be assumed to want to go into the house of their parents, making Slytherin awash with purebloods for generation after generation. However, Snape may have just really really wanted to be in Slytherin, regardless of blood. Would the Sorting Hat have stopped him? I doubt it if the Hat saw all the qualites that distinguishes Slytherin, despite him being only halfblood. Thus, he was put in Slytherin.

That is my explanation anyway.

I would find it very peculiar if JKR made a character who was (presumably) long since dead (Godric Gryffindor) the HBP; call it a gut instinct but it doesn't feel right somehow. I mean, if you look at the previous titles they've always been about something that is physically present in the books. Godric Gryffindor can't be physically present - unless there's a veeeery old phillosopher's stone somewhere we don't know about - so it just seems unlikely. A descendent or 'heir' of Godric Gryffindor would be much more likely, but Godric himself... nah.

As for Snape - the Half Blood Prince means a Prince who is Half-Blood, as oppose to the Prince OF the Half Bloods - as discovered through the translation of the book title in other languages. Which means the half-blood prince has to be half-blood - and I doubt that Snape is, although Slytherin has taken half-bloods in the past so I guess its not out of the question, but as 'comicbookworm' says, he was a death eater and called Lily a 'mudblood', so either he's pureblood, or he's making a very strong pretence of being pure blood. And he just doesn't work personality wise, he's not very 'princely' in my opinion. Plus he has a whole other role as 'redemptive character' to fulfil, and I think that storyline is quite intriguing enough without him having to be the HBP too.

To be honest, neither is particularly convincing - i'm sticking with my

JKR's 'Lionman'=new DADA teacher=descendent of GG=halfblood prince theory

although I realise there's no evidence for that whatsoever! except for previous book patterns with regard DADA teachers, and the fact that the lionman is clearly a signficant new character in HBP.
but i guess we'll find our on 16th July - not long now!!!!

if the lionman is the DADA teacher, as well as the HBP, then wouldn't he only be there for 1 year though (as so far Rowling has portrayed the job as 'cursed')

I would find it very peculiar if JKR made a character who was (presumably) long since dead (Godric Gryffindor) the HBP; call it a gut instinct but it doesn't feel right somehow. I mean, if you look at the previous titles they've always been about something that is physically present in the books. Godric Gryffindor can't be physically present - unless there's a veeeery old phillosopher's stone somewhere we don't know about - so it just seems unlikely. A descendent or 'heir' of Godric Gryffindor would be much more likely, but Godric himself... nah.

As for Snape - the Half Blood Prince means a Prince who is Half-Blood, as oppose to the Prince OF the Half Bloods - as discovered through the translation of the book title in other languages. Which means the half-blood prince has to be half-blood - and I doubt that Snape is, although Slytherin has taken half-bloods in the past so I guess its not out of the question, but as 'comicbookworm' says, he was a death eater and called Lily a 'mudblood', so either he's pureblood, or he's making a very strong pretence of being pure blood. And he just doesn't work personality wise, he's not very 'princely' in my opinion. Plus he has a whole other role as 'redemptive character' to fulfil, and I think that storyline is quite intriguing enough without him having to be the HBP too.

To be honest, neither is particularly convincing - i'm sticking with my

JKR's 'Lionman'=new DADA teacher=descendent of GG=halfblood prince theory

although I realise there's no evidence for that whatsoever! except for previous book patterns with regard DADA teachers, and the fact that the lionman is clearly a signficant new character in HBP.
but i guess we'll find our on 16th July - not long now!!!!

But Godric could be preserved somehow. He could be in the pensieve. He could also be in a picture. Those were what I was htinking about. What is the connection with Godric's Hollow to Godric? We don't know yet. Another small reason that he could be it...

The "lion man" could also be Godric. If it isn't, I don't know what the person is, but it must be some descendant of some sort of Godric. Snape, I've said, I don't know what I feel like it might be him, but I just have this feeling. Some things could possibly lead to him being it, but I just don't know.

For the not being present, he could totally be..un-present.. He doesn't necessarily have to be alive, but a memory of him or a picture or something. I know I said this already but still. All the books don't have to follow the previous ones. Anyway, it could just be Godric being a prince that has an effect on the present time. He doesn't have to be alive to have an effect on the future. Him simply being a prince could be important, and he might not even be so important to the plot as we all think. That I don't think, but yeah..

Look at the Civil War. It isn't happening today, but it sure does have an effect right now. Alot of things would be so much different if things hadn't turned out the way they did.

..Just my opinion though on this. I think Godric has a chance of being the HBP, but my gut is telling me something about Snape is important. :shrug:

Snape is most likely a pureblood so he can't be HBP. Snape will be important to the storyline, but in other ways.

Hmm a thought, would GG want to be preserved? Like most sane people that believe in life, also believe in death, it is a process that everone goes through, I wouldn't know why GG would go to this trouble to "Stay alive"...on a funny note though, it would be interesting for him to see the world as it is today...

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

if the lionman is the DADA teacher, as well as the HBP, then wouldn't he only be there for 1 year though (as so far Rowling has portrayed the job as 'cursed')

If he is the DADA teacher, then almost certainly he'll only be around for a year yes, because, as you say - JKR has portrayed the job as 'cursed' and none of the other teachers have lasted longer. But there's no reason why the lionman couldn't have a 'role' to play as the HBP which for whatever reason is quite capable of ending before the 7th book.
It just makes sense for him to be it to me, maybe i'm being too simplistic but I enjoy speculating! :)

if the lionman is the DADA teacher, as well as the HBP, then wouldn't he only be there for 1 year though (as so far Rowling has portrayed the job as 'cursed')
Yes, so new DADA in Book 7 would follow the pattern. We only need the HBP as DADA for Book 6 (if the characters are indeed one and the same). It doesn't mean he has to die...only that something will happen to prevent him from having the job again next book! Lupin is still around, though not teaching, same with Lockhart (not fit to teach the first time, he certainly wouldn't be any better on a second attempt, would he? :lol: )...So, while the potential combo of HBP/DADA/Heir of Gryffindor would only last one year as DADA, he could still have a different role in Book 7. [And, who knows, maybe the pattern will be broken!]

no your are right, on specualting, perhaps his importantance in year 6 (assuming if he is the DADA teacher) is that it will help Harry this far...also assuming the HBP will help Harry...

Yeah, Nicole, I was thinking along those lines :D

The HBP could be a descendant of Godric, which is more likely than Godric himself, but if he is the DADA teacher, like Master Feign said, then he wouldn't be around for more than a year. I doubt the HBP is only going to stick around for only one year. He is going to be really important. I think that we have somehow come to the conclusion that the HBP is someone we know, so he would HAVE to stick around if he is. Unless the new DADA teacher is someone that we already know also...

This is going nowhere, I should just stop here. I'm thinking out loud.. :D

aww, its fun theorizing though, it gets the brain working :D...To think outloud is perhaps a better way to get ideas out, esp as we know very little about the HBP...

On a side note did Rowling ever do this before where she gives us minimal evidence and then bam, a connection people always theorize, but never know for certain come true...

What I'm saying is that perhaps she just wants to hear our theorys on the HBP, while in fact her excerpt [might] actually be the HBP...

Sure, there were all kinds of theories before OotP. What was the Order (good or bad - most people thought good), what was the room JKR wanted to visit (most people guessed the room of requirement).

We've actually got a pretty decent track record here at CoS :lol:

:D cool, so if we all put our head together :p...

But I say, that we've already come up with many great theorie all with its pros and cons...

Does any one know if JKR gave a quote about Harry NOT being related to Gryffindor? I seem to remember something... but I have no idea if it was in a forum or in an interview.

Hmmm, I will think harder later but could it be that Harry Choose to be in Gryffindor, and if not the hat would have put him in Slytherin, or something to that affect, I'll come back later,,,

Does any one know if JKR gave a quote about Harry NOT being related to Gryffindor? I seem to remember something... but I have no idea if it was in a forum or in an interview.

If I remember correctly JKR neither confirmed nor denied that Harry was related to Gryffindor.

However, Gryffindor is a good candidate for the HBP whether or not he is related to Harry :)

True... but I was thinking about the sword and "only a true Gryffindor." Then I couldn't remember what JKR said.

Okay, I don't think Snape is the HBP, but bringing his name up made me look at JKR's partial list of houses and parentages (see The List) again. On the one page we can see are 5 Slytherins. One is definitely a half-blood (Millicent Bulstrode, probably doesn't surprise anyone :lol: ). Another seems to have been changed to be a half-blood...Tracey Davis. Two out of five Slytherins are half-bloods. 40%. (Not fair of me to project that onto all Slytherins, though, nor even to those in Harry's year.) If there are 10 named Slytherins in Harry's year, at least 20% of them are half-blood.

Of the 22 students where we can see the parentage, 5 are Muggleborns, 7 Pureblood and 10 Half-blood. [I must admit, I went with the changes that seem to have been made to Davis and Seamus Finnegan, and had to fill in Pureblood for Neville.]

Of the 22, half are female; 6 are in Ravenclaw, 5 in Slytherin, 4 in Gryffindor and 7 in Hufflepuff.

Again, of the 22:
Ravenclaw: 2 Muggleborn, 2 hb, 2 pure (evenly divided, 33.33% of each)
Slytherin: 0 Muggleborn, 2 hb, 3 pure (0% Mb, 40% hb, 60% pb)
Gryffindor: 1 Muggleborn, 2 hb, 1 pure (25% Mb, 50% hb, 25% pb)
Hufflepuff: 2 Muggleborn, 5 hb, 0 pure (28.57% Mb, 71.43% hb, 0% pb)

Looks like Hufflepuff should be the anti-Slytherin house!

So, if the excerpt does not describe the HBP, I put my vote in for the HBP to be a former Hufflepuff !

perhaps this is just when Dumbledore is mentioning the being part of the proper house...

I wish I could answer the question: why?

Why is there a HBP in the first place...

Harry's realization... I don't know...

Does any one know if JKR gave a quote about Harry NOT being related to Gryffindor? I seem to remember something... but I have no idea if it was in a forum or in an interview.She gave a maybe with a wink when someone asked.

JKR was asked the following in her World Book Day Chat: Jami: Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor?
JK Rowling replies -> People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is ;)

I do think Harry could be related to Godric. Do you think HBP could have something to do with Ron?

In Ootp Weasley is our King is in the book alot, Also in one Harry's dreams Ron is wearing a crown. I don't think Ron is HBP, he is pure blood. But I think he will have a huge plotline in this book, even if he's not on the cover.

Thats a good idea, Prince is a very high title usually someone of prestige. Ron's and indeed all the weasley's lives hint that in no way are they anywhere near royalty, but they're still awesome.

i'll go for caradoc dearborn, presumed dead is a very misleading way of putting it. if this fellow was not indeed important she may simply have put, dead. But by putting presumed dead and not dead, she is paving the way for his return.

I think there is still a chance Gryffindor could be the HBP. He didn't have to tell the other fonders he is Half-Blood. . I want to know why people think it could be Snape. I don't think it's him, but I could be wrong.

Yeah I'm with you on the HBP being Gryffindor.

In that description that JK had on her web site about the old lion, It seems like she was talking about Gryffindor

Is there the REMOTE possibility that Ron could be the HBP? I mean that JKR said he would be THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE not THE PRINCE OF THE HALF-BLOODS. Since JKR has stated in several books that the Weasley family are pure-bloods... I need some convincing. Sorry :love:

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

But by putting presumed dead and not dead, she is paving the way for his return.
While I agree that the way is 'paved for his return' (I lobbied to get his name on The List!), the passage in the book is more obtuse than 'presumed dead'...
"...Caradoc Dearborn, vanished six months after this [photo], we never found his body..." [Alastor Moody speaking]I think you are right in believing Alastor presumes Caradoc is dead, but vanished may have other implications. :evil:

Maybe, Ron isn't really Molly and Arthur's child. Maybe he is Harry's real brother. (I don't think that's going to happen) But it's possible. I truly think the HBP is either Godric or Trevor. Would anyone be upset if their theory about HBP is wrong? I wouldn't be upset, I would just be shocked if it's Snape or Draco.

Maybe Caradoc will be the new DaDa teacher. It's kinda of weird that he just vanished. She could of just said he died. Maybe the reason JKR had Moody show Harry that picture, so we can know who Caradoc is, because he will play a big role.

Is there the REMOTE possibility that Ron could be the HBP?
I know the references to Ron's potential royalty, but...He has five older brothers. Wouldn't they all be Princes? Or wouldn't the one with the title be the eldest (Bill)?

Ron has the Weasley hair so I'm pretty sure he's a real Weasley and therefore a pureblood.

And Draco is confirmed pureblood so he's out too.

The other two are totally possible, but we don't have enough evidence to definitively decide.

Ron has the Weasley hair so I'm pretty sure he's a real Weasley and therefore a pureblood.

And Draco is confirmed pureblood so he's out too.

The other two are totally possible, but we don't have enough evidence to definitively decide.

But Lily had red hair too!

But Lily had red hair too!
:lol: So she did! Ron can hardly be her son, he was born March 1 and Harry July 31--the same year. Not enough time. :no:

Yeah but it wasn't Weasley red!

I don't see that Ron is anything except a Weasley and that means he could not possibly be the HBP. I can't see that he is someonelse's secret brother or that he is an illigetimate son. I think the Weasley is our King song is just a cruel joke from Draco... and not foreshadowing. I, just like a bunch of others, would love Ron to be a Prince of something... maybe it will be Quidditch. :clap:

It could be that the 'king' references were to prep the readers for the idea of an HBP. JKR is excellent at leaving little hints and subtle clues.

Yeah but it wasn't Weasley red!

The sun darkens hair as you get older!

So she did! Ron can hardly be her son, he was born March 1 and Harry July 31--the same year. Not enough time.

Rowling will correct the age mistake on her website and confirm that Ron is in fact older than she previously stated.

C'mon Mar, be a good prefect and stop rabblerousing :p

I swear that I'm not. We shouldn't discount Ron just yet. And look how often Hermione's birthdate has changed.

The sun darkens hair as you get older!Actually thn sun lightens hair. Its called bleaching. And they're still not related anyway :p

Rowling will correct the age mistake on her website and confirm that Ron is in fact older than she previously stated.
What mistake? I don't see a mistake :p

Actually thn sun lightens hair. Its called bleaching. And they're still not related anyway

Oh yeah...Maybe Lily stayed inside too much after having to hide from Voldemort? ;)

What mistake? I don't see a mistake :p
Oh I was just referring to Hermione's birthdate changes. She used to be a year younger than Ron and Harry until Rowling changed it to you a year older. Not that it matters.

Of course Ron isn't the half-blood prince. He's the King!

Well, for them all to be X years old on 1 September Year A, they would have to have been born between 1 September of year A-X-1 and 31 August year A-X.

For example, anyone born from 1 September 1982 to 31 August 1983 could have joined Hogwarts on 1 September 1994.

For the Trio to be in the same scholastic year, if anyone was born between September and December (inclusive), it would HAVE to be the year BEFORE those born between January and August - unless they skipped a year, of course, which doesn't usually happen in British schools.

Back on topic... I don't think Ron's the HBP, but who's to say there's only one HBP? I mean, there were several Prisoners in Azkaban, but we were concerned only with one - Sirius Black. Maybe the HBP is one of several, but we're only concerned with this one? Or maybe there are several Princes, but only one of them is Half-Blood?

Not a bad point, Jim.

Especially since JKR feels the need to distinguish him from the other princes by the use of the term half-blood. :)

While I agree that the way is 'paved for his return' (I lobbied to get his name on The List!), the passage in the book is more obtuse than 'presumed dead'...
I think you are right in believing Alastor presumes Caradoc is dead, but vanished may have other implications. :evil:

Voldemort "died" when he actually just sort of vanished. People all over thought he was dead when he actually wasn't.

Ron is pureblood though. He can't be the half-blood prince. :D

A quick thought that occured to me while i was reading a mugglenet.com editorial: Does 'Prince' have to refer to royalty, or even royal blood? Could it refer to a champion of or for half bloods? A person who they will gather behind, or simply someone who fights for them? this just popped into my head, i can't seem to shake it. Not only is it intriguing, but it could open up whole new possiblities. (Sorry if anyone already had this idea, i'm not claiming it to be new, just new to me! also, this is the best thread i could find to post this in, if someone knows a better one feel free to redirect me!)

A quick thought that occured to me while i was reading a mugglenet.com editorial: Does 'Prince' have to refer to royalty, or even royal blood? Could it refer to a champion of or for half bloods? A person who they will gather behind, or simply someone who fights for them? this just popped into my head, i can't seem to shake it. Not only is it intriguing, but it could open up whole new possiblities. (Sorry if anyone already had this idea, i'm not claiming it to be new, just new to me! also, this is the best thread i could find to post this in, if someone knows a better one feel free to redirect me!)
The way the title translates into other languages confirms that it is Prince who is a Half-Blood not Prince of the Half-Bloods... If it were the latter, the translations would be different given grammatical structure in languages such as italian, Spanish and French.

I thik the lionman is the descendant of GG. I like this theory but the main con to this is that Voldemort is the last descendant of SS which means that there could be an rivalry twixt lionman and Voldy, overshadowing the main battle/enmity between Harry and our good ol' Dark Lord.

I thik the lionman is the descendant of GG. I like this theory but the main con to this is that Voldemort is the last descendant of SS which means that there could be an rivalry twixt lionman and Voldy, overshadowing the main battle/enmity between Harry and our good ol' Dark Lord.


One theoryI have is maybe the HBP would have to die for Harry to become the Griffindor Heir....

One theoryI have is maybe the HBP would have to die for Harry to become the Griffindor Heir....

Interesting, care to elaborate codswallop? I'd like to hear this theory of yourn.

I think the theory on Trevor could be true. In every book we hear about that Toad(Like Scabbers). And we seen two people be transfigured Dudley(Hagrid try to turn him into a pig,) and Malfoy. Also alot of stories has a princess kissing a frog who turns into a prince. Not that it has anything to do with this theory. I just think Trevor is very possible. But the question now Who could Trevor be?
Trevor would be GG who was perhaps transfigured into a toad by SS ( maybe even the toad that the chicken egg was placed under to hatch the SS Basilisk) Which would explain why Trevor was always trying to get away from neville-- he knew there was a basilisk downstairs and didn't want to cross it. Or maybe Trevor is a transfigured Felix Felices. And the fact that ( I think someone mentioned it earlier) Neville exceeds in herbology could mean something. Maybe he'll use mandrakes ( which bring you back from an altered state such as transfiguration) in book six to make restoring drought and test it on Trevor, who will turn into the HBP ( The "frog" prince). OOHHH, or maybe Trevor is Felix ,and Felix is the HBP, but also the heir of Gryffindor and so the heir of Gryffindor and the heir of Slytherin will cross paths once again ( Maybe Tom Riddle turned Felix into a frog because he found out about the CoS and that was Riddle's way of not getting outed)

Would JKR really use the same plot twist twice though?

I don't think Ron's the HBP, but who's to say there's only one HBP? I mean, there were several Prisoners in Azkaban, but we were concerned only with one - Sirius Black. Maybe the HBP is one of several, but we're only concerned with this one? Or maybe there are several Princes, but only one of them is Half-Blood?
Like Jessica, I agree with this astute assessment. There may be more than one Prince...Ahhh, that thought is giving me a headache, though, as we have more than enough on our plates trying to discover the identity of one Prince (the Half-blooded one), much less how many others there could be and what their identities are! :lol:

I still think it could be Dudders, he may not be a pivotal character within the book but JKR only dropped in the whole prophecy thing into OotP in the last chapter or so. Although Godric could be a choice, because I've been thinking for a while that HP could be some descendent of this family. I don't know if this means anything, but if it stirs too much then I apologise profusely.

This is what JKR said at the Edinburgh Book Festival about Dudley Is there more to Dudley than meets the eye?

No. [Laughter]. What you see is what you get. I am happy to say that he is definitely a character without much back story. He is just Dudley. The next book, Half Blood Prince, is the least that you see of the Dursleys. You see them quite briefly. You see them a bit more in the final book, but you don’t get a lot of Dudley in book six—very few lines. I am sorry if there are Dudley fans out there, but I think you need to look at your priorities if it is Dudley that you are looking forward to. [Laughter].

This doesn't sound like Dudley is at all important and most certainly isn't the HBP.

Yeah, you can't really get any plainer than that.

Plus, JKR said that in HBP we would see the least of the Dursleys that we've ever seen.

Not just that, JKR said Dudley is "just Dudley."

Would JKR really use the same plot twist twice though?
How would it be the same plot? In my theory I suggested that Trevor was NOT an animagus, and is not in the toad form willingly. To compare this scenario with Scabbers is, well, like compare amimagi and metamorphomagi. I would like to remind that a similar situation happened before. Remember, JKR said that there was a scene in the middle of GoF she at first forgot to write and had to re-write a large part of it, becaue it will be important in the future? What was this scene? any guess is as good as another, but one particular scene stands out to me. Its comic value is obvious, but it is rather unconnected with the rest of the story. I mean, of course, a forcefull transfiguration of Draco into a ferret.

It is funny, it helps to show why kids loved fake Moody, but also it shows a possibility of transforming a human being, against his wishes, into a very small animal. That particular kind of transfiguration is never used in the books again. However, if you look at the reaction of McGonagall, she is not yunaware of a possibility of doing so. She is shocked and outraged, but with what? Not that Crouch could transfigure Malfoy, but that IT WAS NOT PERMITTED IN HOGWARTS. So, she knew that it was possible, and that it was used as a punishment. In fact, it was common enough for DD to instruct new teachers against using it on the students. So, we were given the whole story right there, but JKR masterfully used the comic value of the scene to distruct us away from the nature of it. Nevertheless, the facts are all there.
1. A human can (and was) transformed into a small animal against his will.
2. It was used as a punishment, and not for the first time. In fact, it was common.
3. An interference of a wizard/witch who knew what happened was needed to bring him back - and it was obviously not the strongest possible spell (a minor misdemeanor).
4. It happened uin the middle of GoF, where we were told that a major clue/future plot development device was hidden.

So, no, I do not think a poor soul forced by an enemy to live as an animal, perhaps for a VERY long time, is the same plot as a traitor animagus maskarading for a pet to bait his time. As to the fact that humans can transform into animals and fool others with this disguise, it would not be a second time. It would go on a second dosen. McGonagall, Rita, Sirius, Scabbers and who knows how many others... One more, one less, who's counting?

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

thats ok, there was thoughts that even the HBP could just be a nickname, whether good or bad we are not entirely sure...

Interesting, care to elaborate codswallop? I'd like to hear this theory of yourn.



I said that one of my thoughts was perhaps the HBP would have to die for Harry to become the Heir of Griffindor....This is a theory based on the fact that the only royalty we've been introduced to in the Harry Potter series is the founders. Malfoy certainly has wealth and the social status that came with it, (up until the OOP) but was not considered royalty. OK, if You-Know-who is the last direct decescendant of SS, that where could this royalty be other than GG or another founder. Unless, another Royalty systme is introduced to us, I would assume by the JKR quote, that she is talking about GG. Since the HBP is not Harry, than what is the significance of the HBP? The fact that if the HBP dies Harry becomes the heir of Griffindor, which alot of evidence has been already given.

I said that one of my thoughts was perhaps the HBP would have to die for Harry to become the Heir of Griffindor....This is a theory based on the fact that the only royalty we've been introduced to in the Harry Potter series is the founders. Malfoy certainly has wealth and the social status that came with it, (up until the OOP) but was not considered royalty. OK, if You-Know-who is the last direct decescendant of SS, that where could this royalty be other than GG or another founder. Unless, another Royalty systme is introduced to us, I would assume by the JKR quote, that she is talking about GG. Since the HBP is not Harry, than what is the significance of the HBP? The fact that if the HBP dies Harry becomes the heir of Griffindor, which alot of evidence has been already given.
Wait, wait, you lost me. Sinse when founders were royalty, in any sense? They were great wizards and witches, true. But royalty? Surely not. For many reasons, including such obvious as royalty 1000 years ago would have never worked for living, much less undertake a task of organizing and TEACHING students. Teachers were not even that much respected, then. And the evidence of Riddle address to Slytherin: "Greatest of Hogwarts four" That was as telling as it could be. If Slythering was a blood royalty, surely, blood-crazy Riddle would address him by his royal title. If Slitherin wasnt a royalty, whyle Griffindor was, why Slytherin is the greatest? And if being one of the founders was the most remarkable title Slytherin ever had, it is a far cry from royalty. Nope, none of the founders could have possibly be royal. Does not make sense at all. Just great wizads, honest and hard working school professors, perhaps, from respectable and influential pure-blood families - but that's it.

Urrrmmm... I just came from a very interesting thread ( Voldemorts relationship with the Lestranges - v. neat, ya'll should check it out), and would like to propose to the powers that be ( ie, those who made/add to the almighty LIST) to consider adding uuurrrmmm... the child of Voldemort and Bellatrix Lestrange. If he is a boy, he would be a half blood according to JKR's partial list, and a Prince ( because you could say that Voldemort is a King, heck! he can make himself a King). There are some interesting points in that thread that have convinced me of such a possibility!

JKR will not have Bellatrix have an illegitimate child with Voldemort.

How would it be the same plot? In my theory I suggested that Trevor was NOT an animagus, and is not in the toad form willingly. To compare this scenario with Scabbers is, well, like compare amimagi and metamorphomagi. I would like to remind that a similar situation happened before. Remember, JKR said that there was a scene in the middle of GoF she at first forgot to write and had to re-write a large part of it, becaue it will be important in the future? What was this scene? any guess is as good as another, but one particular scene stands out to me. Its comic value is obvious, but it is rather unconnected with the rest of the story. I mean, of course, a forcefull transfiguration of Draco into a ferret.

It is funny, it helps to show why kids loved fake Moody, but also it shows a possibility of transforming a human being, against his wishes, into a very small animal. That particular kind of transfiguration is never used in the books again. However, if you look at the reaction of McGonagall, she is not yunaware of a possibility of doing so. She is shocked and outraged, but with what? Not that Crouch could transfigure Malfoy, but that IT WAS NOT PERMITTED IN HOGWARTS. So, she knew that it was possible, and that it was used as a punishment. In fact, it was common enough for DD to instruct new teachers against using it on the students. So, we were given the whole story right there, but JKR masterfully used the comic value of the scene to distruct us away from the nature of it. Nevertheless, the facts are all there.
1. A human can (and was) transformed into a small animal against his will.
2. It was used as a punishment, and not for the first time. In fact, it was common.
3. An interference of a wizard/witch who knew what happened was needed to bring him back - and it was obviously not the strongest possible spell (a minor misdemeanor).
4. It happened uin the middle of GoF, where we were told that a major clue/future plot development device was hidden.

So, no, I do not think a poor soul forced by an enemy to live as an animal, perhaps for a VERY long time, is the same plot as a traitor animagus maskarading for a pet to bait his time. As to the fact that humans can transform into animals and fool others with this disguise, it would not be a second time. It would go on a second dosen. McGonagall, Rita, Sirius, Scabbers and who knows how many others... One more, one less, who's counting?

Oui, all I'm saying though is that you can't get around the fact that a storyline about a seemingly unimportant animal being reavealed as actually a human, has already been written.

There are some interesting points in that thread that have convinced me of such a possibility!
They must be ignoring the quotes from JKR that Voldemort is not a father and the thought of him being one is repugnant to her. :evil: More and more people seem willing to dismiss JKR's statements, or twist the meanings these days!

With all the never-ending debates on who the half blood prince is, has anyone ever wondered if it is, in fact, not a person at all? It would be exactly like JK to release a title like that then release the description of the 'lion man' and then sit back and laugh at the discussions which would then ensue.

So: I recently stumbled across the realisation that the adult British book covers all relate to the title of the book. Let me go through these:
PS - a picture of the stone.
CoS - the door to the chamber.
PoA - Azkaban prison.
GoF - well, the goblet.
OotF - well, a phoenix.

See what I mean?

The HBP cover features a potion book called 'advanced potion making' and the author name Tiberius Borage. Everyone has automatically assumed that this just means that Harry will indeed be taking potions in his sixth year; but I don't believe that this is all there is to it.

With the book-cover theory in mind, I think there are two possibilities, with a direct link to the title:

1) The half-blood prince could be a new potions teacher, because Snape leaves for some reason. This theory is possible but has been discussed a lot (I think)

2) The half-blood prince is a potion! Why? Because the book cover is of a potion making book, so if the theory of the covers is to be believed, the title will be directly related to the book about advanced potion making.

Also, each title describes something which Harry is after, which he finds at the end of the book (for example GoF is about winning the tournament, OotP is wanting to be a part of the order / wanting to hear the truth about everything). So it is reasonable to assume that the HBP will only be mentioned in passing for the setting up of the story and something to be encountered at the end. If it is a person, it will not be the main focus of the book until the end. So bye bye to all the theories about the HBP being integral to the plot and taking an active part in the book. After all the quest for the Holy Grail isn't really about the grail, but more about the quest to find it.

If it is a potion, it is something which Harry/the order will be trying to get hold of or to stop Volemort from finding. This would allow the plot to develop not merely around the name of the title, but the events leading up to it, which has been the pattern for the other books. Volemort may want it because it can only be drunk by a half blood, wouldn't it be interesting to watch Voldemort try to explain to his minions why he wants it! (If they find out about him being a half blood, all sorts of interesting circumstances could arise.) And the potion bestows power to the drinker say ‘princely’ power or was first made by a half-blood prince to gain as much power in the magic world as he had in the muggle world, so was named HBP.

A potion of that sort would indicate it being restricted, or information on it sparse, as a drink like that would challenge the pure blood authority especially in the middle ages when such a potion may have been discovered.. It might also be restricted because it's dangerous to make and/or drink. As such the potion would be recorded in the form of a book which would be old and the only one of its kind (maybe a spell to stop reproducing the text is on it) due to the nature of the potion. This fits in with the picture of a tatty old book on the UK adult cover of advanced potion making.

The location of this book would either be under high security in the Ministry of Magic, or it may have once been at Hogwarts and has been forgotten in the restricted area. That means Voldemort will be wanting to get in to Hogwarts to find the book (or convinces one of his henchmen maybe Pettigrew to go) Another possibility which I am leaning towards, due to the CoS link, is that the book was a Hogwarts and Tom Riddle found it, and took it to the Chamber for safe keeping and studying. He then released the Basilisk and after coming close to being caught by Dumbledore didn’t risk opening the chamber again. So the task is to go back to the Chamber to find it. The nature of the potion would also bring up the blood issues that have been at the core of the books.

If Voldemort manages to get the book exotic ingredients and specialist equipment may be required so the story will then develop around stopping the acquisition of these items.

If a potion is involved heavily it would also give snape a larger role to play and indicated Harry does do Advanced Potions for a N.E.W.T

A side note here for our American cousins across the Pond, their children’s addition shows a crucible with green light from it. The crucible is what alchemy (potions) was done in during the Dark and Middle ages (I do recognise it could be a pensive) Also due to some interesting discussions on cover art green means reborn and a lot else so suggesting whatever in the crucible is powerful and has regenerative power. These points of view support the above argument.

Finally, if a book was called 'Bloody Mary', wouldn't everyone assume it was about a women called Mary who did nasty things? Nobody would think of a drink! (If we didn't already know that it was a drink).

Anyway this is just one theory. But I would quite like to know if anyone else has ideas of this nature.

P.S Even if a potion is not involved the characters should return to the chamber of secrets as the Basilisk was only the guardian, the secrets in the chamber have yet to be discussed/found and its seems silly no one is going to go explore the lair of one of the most powerful wizards ever.

The cover of a book is dictated by the content of said book, not the other way around. Your theory has a major flaw.
And if the HBP wasn't a who, then why does all the promotional adverts say "Who is the Half-Blood Prince"?

The content may be on the cover, but for the UK Adult covers where was the info on say the half-blood issues withs CoS, or the Triwizard Tournament with GoF. The Cover does have a direct link with the title.
Also I am not aware of any promotional things out by JK or the publisher that say 'Who is the HBP?' any that are out there not from those sources will be just appealing to the masses to invest in products etc etc

hmmm. maybe the Half-Blood Prince is a gay bar and the 6th book is about harry's coming out of the closet. :lol:

im pretty sure he's a person. then again, no one really thought order of the phoenix meant a secret org did they? (did they??) anyway, the if the HBP is a potion, then it would be too similar to PS/SS then. so i really dont think so.

thats a pretty good theory.maybe harry trys (with help from hermione of course) to brew "the half blood prince potion" to make him half blood.whoaa..wait..isnt he half blood already
UGH IM SO CONFUSED!

I think that is an excellant theory, very plausible! You're on to something, I know it. The HBP may not be a potion, but I salute you for thinking outside of the box!

I think this should go here

Harry potter and the HBP discussion (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=52774)

or here

Unfogging the HBP cover art (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=47034)

:D so have I noticed, as even Bellatrix is already marrried, but whats interesting is that we know nothing of the Mr.

Hmmm, strange question, if the HBP did have something to do with royalty then why do we only hear about it in #6 other then the other quick references of other royalties in previous books?

hmmm. maybe the Half-Blood Prince is a gay bar and the 6th book is about harry's coming out of the closet. :lol:

That was a good one.

Anyway, I don't know if this theory is actually correct, but I like the idea of the half blood price not being a person. That's a good point about "bloody Mary."

Hmm, Belgarath2, are you sure that the HBP could be a new potions teacher? Because JKR keeps saying that in future books we'll find out more about why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and we wouldn't find more unless he was a major role in the books, would we? Taking him away from the Potions position would just make it harder for her to tell us more about him.

Good, well thought out theory, but i still think it is a person.

So what your thinking it is- is a potion book?

No, she thinks it's a potion. The instructions to make the potion would be in the tattered book on the adult front cover :).

right.

It's obvious that the HBP is Crookshanks, people come on! ;)

Lol, i think it's Voldemort actually! :p

J.K said it wasn't Harry or Voldemort so..........A RAT!

Wow a brilliant theory and although i dont think its a potion thats a great idea about looking at the cover of the books and a great start. Hum i'm trying to think of any other reasons why the art cover of the potions book would link to the Half-Blood Prince but i'm idealess.

Maybe Tiberius Borage is the Half-Blood Prince?

PLEASE READ THIS LIST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

The most recent new and improved list

INITIAL CRITERIA FOR TESTING CANDIDATE PLAUSIBILITY:
1. Are they male?
2. Are they half blood (Because of the way that the title is translated into other languages, we agree that the Prince IS a half blood rather than a Prince OF the half bloods. We also agree that a half-blood is anyone with partial wizard blood and partial muggle blood)?
3. How could they be a prince?
4. Did they appear in book 2 OR could they have reasonably been worked into the plot?


In what way is 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' related to 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'?
I have been engulfed by an avalanche of questions on the subject of 'Prince' having once been a title of 'Chamber'.

'The Half-Blood Prince' might be described as a strand of the overall plot. That strand could be used in a whole variety of ways and back in 1997 I considered weaving it into the story of 'Chamber'.

The link I mentioned between books two and six does not, in fact, relate to the 'Half-Blood Prince' (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince'.

5. Is there a storyline plot for them?

ELIMINATED (Alphabetized by Last Name)
• Bloody Baron: KNOWN TO BE BARON NOT PRINCE
• Regulus Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP. Also confirmed dead and not coming back by JKR
• Sirius Black --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per OotP
• Colin Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Dennis Creevey - Known to be Muggle born per CoS
• Crookshanks - Not animagus per JKR site
• Dobby - Seems highly unlikely to be half blood of any kind
• Dudley Dursley - Per Edinburgh "He's just Dudley", Dursley's not to appear much in HBP
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy: KNOWN TO BE KNIGHT NOT PRINCE
• Justin Finch Fletchley: NOT POSSIBLE. MUGGLE BORN PER JKR.
• Filius Flitwick - - Flitwick's story will not be told per JKR site
• Fat Friar: KNOWN TO BE FRIAR - UNLIKELY TO ALSO BE PRINCE
• Grawp: Pure giant - no human
• Rubeus Hagrid: JKR confirmed he is not Prince (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005071.html)
• Lee Jordan – generally felt as not possible
• Victor Krum --- per JKR, March 2004: "You will see Krum again, though not soon."
• Gilderoy Lockhart --- generally felt as too ludicrous, per unconfirmed Edinburgh report will not apear in future books.
• Neville Longbottom --- Known to be Pure-blood. Per CoS and OotP
• Ernie MacMillan -- Pure blood per JKR .
• Draco Malfoy --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Theodore Nott --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE - SAYS HE IS A PUREBLOOD
• Peter Pettigrew--- Could not have appeared prior to end of PoA
• Harry Potter --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• James Potter --- Harry would also be Prince; Highly likely that he is pureblood
• Tom Riddle--- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Salazar Slytherin --- Chapter 11 - For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning just like him
• Dean Thomas - - Dean's story will not be told per JKR site
• Lord Voldemort --- NOT POSSIBLE PER JKR WEBSITE
• Lord Voldemort's SON --- JKR has confirmed that Voldemort has no children.
• Weasley Males --- Known to be Pure Blood

THE CANDIDATES (Alphabetized by Last Name)

NEW CHARACTER
Pros: Late in the series to reveal this about a character we already know; all book titles so far have been about someone/thing new
Cons: It was a possible title for Book 2 - prince may have appeared/mentioned in CoS; seems late in the game for significant new characters DADA Teacher
Other New Teacher
New Minister of Magic
New Death Eater - CON: Death Eaters not introduced in CoS
New Student
McLaggan - CON: Mentioned in passing at Edinburgh, unlikely to be important
New OotP member- CON: OotP not introduced in CoS
Heir of Grffindor
Historical Character
Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy
Egyptian Character

BASIL

Basil is first mentioned on p.75, Am.ed. trade pb (Beginning of Ch. 7):

...his colleage [wore], a kilt and poncho.
"Morning, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, picking up the boot and handing it to the kilted wizard, who threw it into a large box of used Portkeys beside him; Harry could see.....

"Hello there, Arthur," said Basil wearily. "Not on duty, eh? It's all right for some...We've been here all night...You'd better get out of the way, we've got a big party coming in from the Black Forest at five-fifteen. Hang on, I'll find your campsite...Weasley...Weasley..." He consulted his parchment list......

"Thanks, Basil," said Mr. Weasley, and he beckoned everyone to follow him.



We see him as the Weasley party leaves (Beginning of Ch. 10):

...they approached the spot where the Portkeys lay, and when they reached it, they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper of the Portkeys, all clamoring to get away from the campsite as quickly as possible. Mr. Weasley had a hurried conversation with Basil; they joined the queue, and were able to take an old rubber tire back to Stoatshead Hill before the sun had really risen.
Most intriguing may be the fact that he is "keeper of the Portkeys" since we know Hagrid called himself "Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts."
Pros: Interesting description. Sounds like he has some authority.
Cons: May just be Ministry official. Not much is known about him.

MICHAEL CORNER
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.

CARADOC DEARBORN
Pros: Caradoc was the name of a prince, "dear born" could mean well born as in royal
Cons: Presumed dead, but this may be a ruse

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
Pros: we know little about his background; referred to as "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles" by Voldemort in GoF; very similar character to Merlin, who was Prince of Enchanters; Appears on three of the four covers.
Cons: He already has a large role; parents are most likely dead so he would be king not prince (although not necessarily - some princes never become king),; Aberforth would also be Prince

FELIX FELICES
Pros: Chapter Fourteen Title - Must be important
Cons: May not even be a person.

ARGUS FILCH
Pros: we learn a bit about his past in CoS; could be the one who's magic comes "late in life"; the only one who stays at Hogwarts year round - could be hiding out (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1030942&postcount=1) Per JKR one grandparent could be muggle and person would still be considered a half blood. Per JKR site, squibs only need to have ONE magical parent.
Cons: Filch is a squib, meaning his parents are magical, so not half-blood

SEAMUS FINNIGAN
Pros: he is a half-blood (per PS/SS); being from Ireland, may have wizarding royalty there... either way very little is known about him
Cons: He is an established minor character; having a student prince would upstage Harry

MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER
Pros: We are never told of his heritage in the text; he is mentioned in passing in CoS; JK might spring something totally unexpected at us.
Cons: Dung doesn't act very princely; it doesn't seem like there will be a plot for him in future books; according to JKR, he already has "burst onto the stage as a full character"

ANTHONY GOLDSTEIN
Pros: Known Half Blood (See list below), DA member
Cons: Not much to go on/not much known about him.


GRINDLEWALD
Pros: Could have been fit into CoS, may be in Azkaban (defeated, not killed),

1. Grindelwald was mentioned in SS/PS. We know that many things/people mentioned briefly in SS?/PS have gone on to far greater importance.

2. We know that Tom Riddle was 15 in 1942 (fifty years previous to CoS). Therefore he graduated from Hogwarts in 1944. Gindlewald was defeated in 1945 giving them a year of overlap.

3. We know that Tom Riddle transformed himself into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts. We also know that Hogwarts does not teach the Dark Arts. Therefore it makes sense taht he would have had a mentor.

4. We know that Voldemort fears Dumbledore. While there are many reason why this would be so this fear would make a lot of sense if Dumbledore had defeated his mentor.

5.Since CoS focues on Tom Riddle, it is easy to see how Grindlewald could have been fit into the book if in fact he was Tom's mentor.

6. Since Grindlewald was defeated not killed he may still be alive and held in Azkaban. If so he may re-appear in HBP. This may be one of the reasons why he was moved to Book Six because JKR didn't want anyone to escape prior to PoA and she realized he could have a greater scope in Book 6.

Cons: Not really much to go on.

GODRIC GRYFFINDOR
Pros: ComicBookWorm's Definitive Argument. (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=237) also...
there won't be any prequels/sequels, and there is still a lot more to know about the founders' history; the sword in the hat could be the "discovery" JKR is referring to, ; Dumbledore and Harry appear to be looking into a Pensieve in the American version. This could lend credence to the idea that it's an historical character.
Cons: Side-argument as to whether Harry is his heir; too much past-focussed and not forward-moving for the story; he is dead; he is most likely a pure-blood, it's unlikely SS would have befriended a half-blood; after releasing the title and saying it wasn't Harry or Voldemort, JKR said she wouldn't say anything more about the subject until the book is published - meaning the "old lion" excerpt is not likely to be describing the HBP; JKR also said that the HBP storyline and the "discovery" that connects books 2 and 6 are not related and says many times that there is "no trace" of the HBP storyline left in CoS; Gryffindor has been mentioned several times but his royalty has never been referred to.

REMUS LUPIN
Pros:
Cons:
Siriusstar: Is Remus a pureblood?
JK Rowling replies -> Half blood.

Now the future. Lupin's going to come back in book five isn't he?
JKR: You'll see Lupin again in five yeah, yeah - do you like Lupin?

Oh yes, he's my favourite.
JKR: Yeah and me. I always looked forward to writing book three because of Professor Lupin, I love him. You see a lot of old characters in book five. I'm not even going to try and tell you what happens in book five, I'm just recovering from the stress of book four.


, CNNKING: Do you know, J.K., where you're going?

ROWLING: Yes.

KING: You do? You plot it out?

ROWLING: Yes, I spent five years -- it was five years before -- between having that idea and finishing the first book and during those five years I was planning the whole seven book series, so it's already written in stone. That's how it's going to happen.

If Remus Lupin was "planned" for Book 3, Jo wouldn't have even considered having him appear in Book 2 as the HBP...

How do you think up the names of the books?

Sometimes it was really easy and the title came naturally out of the plot. Sometimes it was a bit of a struggle. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets had different titles. In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six. There is no trace of that storyline left in Chamber of Secrets. People have been speculating that book six is a spinoff of book two, but it is not.

STURGIS PODMORE
Pros: Could meet desription on JKR website, member of original OotP, relation to nobility (Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore)
Cons: long stretch from knight to Prince, falls for Imperius curse by Death Eaters, desciption might not be HBP

KINGSLEY SHACKLEBOLT
Pros: Conducts himself nobly, KINGsley
Cons: No real objections so far.

SEVERUS SNAPE
Pros: His character obviously has a lot in store; we don't know for sure if he is a pureblood; Potions books on British Adult cover.
Cons: He most likely is a pureblood: he's a former DE, the head of Slytherin and called Lily a "filthy little mudblood"


THE WIZARD (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=14) :
Pros: It says he is in his user title. He IS a wizard,
Cons: No evidence for his existence in the canon

TREVOR THE TOAD:
Pros: It's definitely unexpected :lol:

I retract my statement about my doubts about Trevor. I think he is a very possible and probable candidate now after having had a quick flick through PS and (by chance) opened a Trevor excerpt on book 4.

Below is further support of Ikuko's post in regards to Trevor.

1.

1. We know that uncle Archibald has given Trevor to Neville, but where did he get it? it was never said ther Trevor was bought.
Actually, Neville told them that Uncle Algie bought Trevor when he was 8, after he showed some skills for magic. Pg. 93, PS, hardcover Bloomsbury:
...nothing happened until I was eight...I bounced all the way down the garden and into the road...Great-uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad
So he hasn't lived in the family for generations.
I see it likely that some bitter pure-blood would transfigure the child into something, possibly a toad, and make it "permanently sticking"
Yep, can happen as Moody did this to Malfoy in GoF. I'm not sure a "sticking charm" is necessary to keep it permanent as McGonagall had to use her wand to change Malfoy back to normal (pg.182, paperback, Bloomsbury). If she hadn't, I think he'd have stayed that way unless there is a time-effect we don't know about.
2. In PS, Neville's toad is always lost. I think JK has had us to believe that it's because of Neville's forgetfulness that Trevor always goes missing but if you look at other people's pets like Crookshanks, Scabbers*, Hedwig, Mrs. Norris (I guess you could include Fang and Fawkes here too) they're always faithfully beside their owner. From pg. 198:
Neville appeared from behind an armchair, clutching Trevor the toad, who looked as though he'd been making another bid for freedom
Making a bid for freedom? Why would a pet do this? Because he's a transfigured person who is desperately trying to find someone to transfigure him back to normal! We don't know if Trevor gets lost when Neville's at home but we know he goes missing at school. Maybe it has to be a specific person to be able to transfigure him, maybe Dumbledore? Could he be trying to get away to find Dumbledore and somehow communicate his trapped status?

If Dumbledore has nothing to do with it, I think it is signficant that he's always getting "lost".
Note that while we don't see Trevor's whereabouts questioned in CoS or PoA, that doesn't necesarily mean it stopped happening.

3. On pg.97, PoA, (hardcover Bloomsbury) Snape makes Trevor drink a Shrinking Solution potion which fortunately turns him into a tadpole instead of poisoning him.

It could be argued that he'd turn into a person if he really was the HBP but keep in mind it was a "Shrinking Solution". Technically, I think Trevor should have turned into a very small toad instead of revert back to tadpole form as this implies some sort of time disposition (like the guy in OotP where his head changed from a baby to that of an adult's) but this can be overlooked.

It's interesting that Trevor was brought up at this point. I personally believe that it's there to throw us off the scent because if he turns into a tadpole, surely he is nothing but a toad. It wasn't explicitly stated whether other students' pets were present but I'm assuming they were so that their Shrinking potion could be tested.

We know Snape picks on Neville a lot but doesn't he hate Harry more?

4. This doesn't seem overly significant but I thought it was interesting that Trevor was present when they Harry and Hermione were practicing the Summoning Charm in GoF.
At two-o'clock in the morning, Harry stood near the fire-place, surrounded by heaps of objects - books, quills, several upturned chairs, an old set of Gobstones and Neville's toad, Trevor.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that either Harry or Hermione were making Trevor zoom around the room but I can't find the quote for it.

So there you have it! It all seems to tie up neatly with Ikuko's statement of how a transfigured "prince would be lost, royalty forgotten and unable to die at a proper time as it was not a natural toad".

Trevor hardly gets a mention in CoS (if at all) which I don't believe is important. We all know that JK is very subtle.

Sorry about the length of the post but I had to put forward a convincing argument

Now that I've completely convinced myself now...All hail Trevor! ;p

*I know he was Peter but he he seemed to behave like a magical pet as he always stuck around and he did bite Goyle once.

EDIT 1: Oh, and for those of you who don't think JK will use this scenario again - is this her intention? Very well could be. At least, it's one of a few sure ways to make sure we don't bark up the right tree.
See Ikuko's post for other repetitive scenarios.

EDIT 2: In OoTP, pg. 168 Trevor still shows signs of trying to get away:
...they met Neville Longbottom, his round face shining with the effort of pulling his trunk along and
maintaining a one-handed grip on his struggling toad, Trevor

There are a few more references to a struggling Trevor in that scene.

EDIT 3: In PS and GoF there are references to transfiguring people into toads.
...if he really was a wizard why hadn't they been turned into warty toads every time they'd tried to lock him in his cupboard? (PS, pg. 47)
"Imagine if Moody turned Snape into a turned toad" said Ron (GoF, pg.185)
EDIT 4: I sure hope this is my last edit as this is getting way too long. I forgot to mention that Trevor being a transigured person could easily be GG or a new character we haven't seen yet.

EDIT 5: God, just when I thought I had no more to add. The recent "Trevor the Toad" editorial brought this to my attention of how something that Harry learns in CoS could foreshadow HBP. It is the mandrakes. A rather long scene was dedicated to the Mandrakes in CoS also but what's interesting is this quote and how it was said verbatim:
"Mandrake, or Mandragora, is a powerful restorative," said Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook. "It is used to return people who have been transfigured or cursed to their original state." Pg. 7 CoS
The fact that it was verbatim isn't that important but what we can gleen from this is that Harry learns early on of how people can be "transfigured" and how to restore them.
This could be that tiny link between CoS and HBP.

Cons: JKR unlikely to use same plot twist twice (aka Scabbers/Pettigrew)

BLAISE ZABINI
Pros: Per Edinburgh - we will see more of him. He could finally be a good Slytherin
Cons: having a student prince would upstage Harry



NOT A PRINCE AT ALL
May not be literal, but a nickname

BECOMES A PRINCE IN BOOK SIX:
He may not be a prince at the start of the Book.
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE (http://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/)


(credit goes to kayah (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?u=33642) for making this list in the first place)

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/images/jkr/HarrysYear.jpg

The 'N' with a square around it means Muggleborn (Non-magical parents).
The star alone means half-blood.
The star with a circle around it means pureblood.

Darkened squares are male, open circles are female.

Houses indicated by founder initial. Looks like all the Gryffindors got added circles to the 'G'...

List refound by the amazing Nicole (http://www.cosforums.com/member.php?userid=38107)


IMPORTANT: It has been brought to my attention that not all of the links work. If you wrote an argument pro or con one of the people on the list, send me an owl.



J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.

We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.

Maybe, but i think he's just an author of an advanced potions book :).

Im positive it is a person.... a potion?.... really.... I think it is more likely to be Nevil or one of Nevil's family members... but that is just me.... a potion?!

Oui, all I'm saying though is that you can't get around the fact that a storyline about a seemingly unimportant animal being reavealed as actually a human, has already been written.
Well, since it was written alteady more than once (Scabbers that happened to be Peter and unimportant beetle happened to be Rita), the argument "she won't do it twice" does not work. And, so far, it is the only argumenrt against Trevor.

I kinda of think the HBP is Dumbledore, he is on all the covers. The HBP is 100% a person, unless it's a book called HBP.

if it's not a person, it's crookshanks.

or maybe it's trevor...the frog prince... :rotfl:

Hmmm...Could Dumbledore & Harry have to mix up a potion to travel back in time to meet the Half-Blood Prince (like Godric Gryffindor)?

That would also explain what looks like Dumbledore & Harry on the front of the American version. I thought it was a pensieve, but it could be a potion.

I definitely think we'll see more time travel at some point, and this could be a way to do it.

Christi Tompkins
http://www.christitompkins.com

Well, since it was written alteady more than once (Scabbers that happened to be Peter and unimportant beetle happened to be Rita), the argument "she won't do it twice" does not work. And, so far, it is the only argumenrt against Trevor.


I do not think Trevor is the HBP or an animagus, but will be significant to the plot of Book 6 or 7(probably 6 because there is a bunch of speculation involving the Hogwarts founders). In the thread a separate soul it discusses a soul living with the person dying, May latest off the wall theory is that is soul of GG is contained in Fawkes and the soul of SS in contained in Trevor. The reason I am suspicious about Trevor comes from PS/SS where he is trying to escape at the same time Voldemort is trying to get the stone.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=52202&highlight=soul

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=47841&highlight=trevor

An excellent idea.

While I am not so sure if it is the name of a potion, but it could certainly be a name/alias given to a rare potion ingredient - for example Neville's plant Mimbulus Mimbletonia.

Note: It is common in chinese to name plant/creature as prince/lord/etc. e.g. crab is call 'gentleman without intestine'

I do not think Trevor is the HBP or an animagus, but will be significant to the plot of Book 6 or 7(probably 6 because there is a bunch of speculation involving the Hogwarts founders). In the thread a separate soul it discusses a soul living with the person dying, May latest off the wall theory is that is soul of GG is contained in Fawkes and the soul of SS in contained in Trevor. The reason I am suspicious about Trevor comes from PS/SS where he is trying to escape at the same time Voldemort is trying to get the stone.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=52202&highlight=soul

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=47841&highlight=trevor
Hmmm. I was under impression that the idea of discussion consists of the offering counter-arguments to a theory, not telling that other theories also exist. I am aware of that. If you are convinced that Trevor is not HBP or animagus, I would be glad to hear your arguments and canon evidens of them. Since so far JKR stayed well away from themes of re-incarnation, on the oppisite, she told us that people leave this plane of existance for good (iunless become ghosts), I see no reason to suspect animals to be re-incarnated founders.

As to the idea that Trevor for some reason was restless in CoS, it does not seat well with his being SS. Why would he need to bother? Riddle did not need any help, and there was no way he could stop him, if that was his intention. There is a much simplier explanation. If spiders sensed the basilisk, perhaps, so could Trevor, and if he is more intelligent than an average toad, he would be bound to be upset and try to get away, perhaps taking Neville with him. It would be too much of a coincidence if SS was re-incarnated -as a toad, too, not a snake - and be at school at the same time as diary was activated. If it was really SS, why didn't he trouble himself at the first Chamber opening, when his heir was there in flesh and unsusopected by any of the faculty? It does not make sense.

I'm not sure that the Half-Blood Prince is necessarily a potion (however it is a brilliant theory), but it would be plausible that it isn't a person. It would be very like JKR to have us all guessing on who the HBP is, new character vs. existing character, and have it not be a character at all (ultimate irony!).

Also, the cover art of the British version also suggests that Potions/Snape will play a major role in book 5, however adds a credible question: Why is Harry taking advanced Potions?

The cover of a book is dictated by the content of said book, not the other way around. Your theory has a major flaw.
And if the HBP wasn't a who, then why does all the promotional adverts say "Who is the Half-Blood Prince"?

This says it all.

Its the same with all the Harry Potter titles, there is no way, apart from the Philosophers Stone as thats from common history and myth, that anyone can figure out what the titles mean before they read the books. The only thing that leads me to believe it might be a person is when i read that article about the security around the printing becasue JKR suppsoidly didn't want anyone to know 'who' the half-blood prince is before they read the book, but this isn't from JKR herself, just from the newspapers.

So i'm still open to any ideas since i haven't read the book yet so know it really could be anything. And come on, the Bloody Mary point should be enough to turn anyone round!

Hmm, Belgarath2, are you sure that the HBP could be a new potions teacher? Because JKR keeps saying that in future books we'll find out more about why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and we wouldn't find more unless he was a major role in the books, would we? Taking him away from the Potions position would just make it harder for her to tell us more about him.

In response to this.. I should say.. that since we really dont know what happens .. we could say for all we know that Snape finally gets to be DADA teacher.. (so we get to keep/learn more about him.. while still havin HBP be the new Potions Teacher.. Which techincally could be a way for Harry to continue Potions without having gotten an O in Potions...

( i dont really think this.. but just a possibility).. personally I think that DD will teach Harry next yr in Potions... Not counting on him getting an O.. lol


OH and another Thought.. just because the Promos say something.. or rather Ask something.. (not that I am verifying they do.. not up on the promos...)doesnt mean we are to take it as Canon... I am pretty sure that the people who do the advertising have Not read the books yet.. so wont count what they do or say as Canon.


I am not saying I agree with this theory.. but just arguing the points mentioned :)

Hope everyone is enjoyin the 3 day weekend :D

HP ROCKS, i do like the thought that DD teaches harry potions and thus the american HBP covers looks like they are brewing something together (maybe the half-blood prince potion???) so maybe it's not a pensieve as alot of people think. Which would also link to the adult cover. I think eventually Snape has to teach DADA somewhen though most likely the 7th book. I would like to know what DD thinks would happen if Snape did teach DADA as its obviously bad.

Im not enjoying the three day weekedn as i have to revise for a university final i have tomorrow afternoon :-(

As to the idea that Trevor for some reason was restless in CoS, it does not seat well with his being SS. Why would he need to bother? Riddle did not need any help, and there was no way he could stop him, if that was his intention. There is a much simplier explanation. If spiders sensed the basilisk, perhaps, so could Trevor, and if he is more intelligent than an average toad, he would be bound to be upset and try to get away, perhaps taking Neville with him. It would be too much of a coincidence if SS was re-incarnated -as a toad, too, not a snake - and be at school at the same time as diary was activated. If it was really SS, why didn't he trouble himself at the first Chamber opening, when his heir was there in flesh and unsusopected by any of the faculty? It does not make sense.


Separate Soul is a different concept than reincarnation.....Notice Basilisks are hatched by toads....My main argument for Trevor not being the HBP is anamangi have been done twice, but I am saying suspicion about Trevor is natural and he may have a role that is significant, just not the HBP.


'The separable soul was achieved by wizards by removing their soul from their body and placing it in an egg, which was concealed in the body of a duck, in the belly of a sheep and hidden under a flagstone or in some other hiding place'cfptwenty

The interesting thing about this idea is it is Celtic Mythology which I think JKR would be more likely to use than traditional Eastern reincarnation.

I wonder if Snape is the half-blood prince.

Refer to JK's quote at the Edinburgh Book Festival
Also, is he a pure blood wizard?
Snape's ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there.
I believe she's misleading us. No muggleborn doesn't mean that Snape cannot be half-blood. It only eliminates the possibility that BOTH Snape's parent are muggleborns/ muggles. His father or mother can still be a half-blood/muggleborn/muggle. Given the fact that Snape's father abused his wife, I tend to believe Snape's mother is the one with half-blood.

Consider that young Snape's fascination towards dark arts maybe largely influenced by his family background, therefore, it's highly possible that Snape's father belongs to a traditional pure-blood family similar to Black.

So, what happened if Snape's father is the son of Grindelwald, the dark lord before Lord Voldemort?
As a previous dark lord's grandson, Snape can, of course, being referred by others as a prince.

Yes. Grindelwald is a German name, but doesn't Snape seems sort of German too? Hooked nose, strict personality.... and his unexplainable close relationship with Karkaroff, who refused to give him away until the very end... Was it Karkaroff's way showing respect and loyalty to a dark prince?

You may ask, why Severus Snape is Snape then?

We don't know if Grindelwald was active at Germany or not, if he was, after his downfall, to avoid trials and revenge from his victims, his descendants may flee abroad, using fake surnames and settle down somewhere, hiding themselves. I believe Snape's father is one of them.

Later on, he met his wife, knowing that she comes from a domestic (British) historical wizarding family, he thought her blood is as pure as him before the marriage, but later he discovered that she has a half-blood/muggleborn/muggle as her direct sancestor long time ago.... which, in narrow sense, means that she is a half-blood. Feeling betrayed by his wife and the fact that his marriage had polluted his family tree, he abuses her.

And as most pure-blood family will do, Snape's father tries his best hiding this information from outsiders and pretend his son is a pure blood. As a 99.9% pureblood, with a Dark Lord as grandfather, I don't think Snape has any difficulty entering Slytherin. Living in a house full of pure-blood manias, Snape, of course, would follow his father's practice to protect himself.

He joined Voldemort, like his friends, finally. I wonder if Voldemort knows his little secret or not, but rare circumstances, of course can apply to Grindelwald's grandson. This can also explain why Voldemort didn't kill Snape even he once believed he has left him forever - Do you really believe Snape is on Dumbledore's side if Dumbledore has defeated (maybe killed) his grandfather? If not, then what's the point killing off the descendant of a famous and (possibly) highly-respected dark lord in Germany if you wanted to attract more foreign followers and rule Europe?

And about Dumbledore's trust.... "That, Harry, is a matter between Professor Snape and myself." explains everything.

If someone like Snape told you his story, knowing clearly that he didn't need to be that honest and expose his real identity (I'm not Snape, I'm in fact Grindelwald) to his family's enemy even he was coming for help, as someone like Dumbledore, will you offer him a second chance?

And will you find that the truth will only intensify, a year 4 student's suspicion, that your potions master is a bad dark wizard if he's in fact a half-blood dark prince?

Just a thought, though...

I believe that the HBP will be a new character. If it were an old one, surely we would have heard something about it by now and I think Dumbledore would have informed Harry of it, well, if not DD then Ron. Lupin or someone he knows.

I don't think it is the lion character, either. It would be too obvious for JKR to give us an excerpt who is the subject of the book, well, in my opinion anyway.

I think Snape will still teach potions and Harry will take it. He has to if he wants to be an auror. Someow he got that O! I just know it.
I'm really on the fence about this theory now that I've read all the posts, but I do want to say that we can't necessarily put our faith in the promo materials. I work in advertising, and (not to say we're not trustworthy people) it's more about what appeals to the target audience. "Who is the HBP?" is the popular question with the readers, so that's the question on the promo stuff. The people who design the posters and everything else have no inside info about the books. They probably don't even have to have their copy approved by any of JKR's people.
While I don't know if this theory is true, I really like it. The bloody mary thing really got me.

I think that the half-blood prince could be Goderick Gryfindor,. Since there is a link with the CoS it is possible that Harry finds the mirror again, maybe in the restricted room or he sees him in Serious's mirror. He stands in front of it and this time the wishes for someone to tell him what to do. It is Goderick that comes.
The reason Goderick could be a half-blood, even if everyone thinks he is full blood is because, remembering that he was born a thousand years ago, the night that she got married to her husband, a wizard, a King demanded first night. Rather than exposes her family as witches, remember they were being persecuted, she submitted to the kings demands. Nine months later Goderick was born. That would also explain why he and Slythering were so polarized on the half-blood issue. (might not be PG-13 enough)
I like the Trevor theory though. I think his grandmother is using it to keep tabs on Neville. He did not get it until he started showing signs of using magic, so his Grandmother was probably afraid someone would Voldy would come after him.
I also like Mungas. It is a streatch, but his last name is Fleatcher, maker of arrows. What if he is a prince, kind of like Robin Hood, who has lost his birthright. Now he steals from the rich and gives to the poor.

and his unexplainable close relationship with Karkaroff, who refused to give him away until the very end... I didn't see a close relationship. They shared the fact that they were both former DEs and could see that Voldemort had come back. I believe she's misleading us. No she isn't. She wouldn't do that, she respects the trust of her audience. She misdirects in stories, she has never mislead in interviews. She either declines to answer or she answers. She said his ancestry was hinted at. Well the only hint we have at all is where he calls Lily Mudblood. That would suggest he is a pureblood.

I like the idea of treavor being the hbp, how long do toads live for anyway? treavor, assuming he was a full grown toad when Neville recieved him would be about eight or nine years old. A question i thought of is do we know when JKR says half blood if she means a half blood wizard, what if she meant a half blood human, half veela or something could be possible. Not that i'm saying hagrid is the half blood prince, but then again, maybe he is. (or maybe treavors only half toad,*smirks, j.k.* .)

JKR has defined half-blood for us on her website and she only described human/muggle mixes. And she has used the term consistently to mean part wizard and part muggle in the books. Mixes with something other than human have been called a half-breed. She uses language carefully.

Toads live 4 to 24 years. it depends on the breed of toad. Neville got Trevor when he was eight, I think it was a full grown toad. So Trevor is around 8 or 9.

Thanks for all the feedback.
Just to add though after more thought the potion could be the half-blood prince potion but the task is to find the book containg the mixing instructions, the climax will be the making of the potion which voldy then drinks and uses the power in the potion to kill dumbledore.
One of the ingredients could also be actual blood from half-bloods thus darker and a few deaths in the book.

The Half-Blood Prince is Trevor. Dumbledore and Harry use a potion to turn him back into a prince. Remember, what Hermione said about Mandrakes in CoS. They are used to restore a person from a transfigured state. I think Godric was transfigured into a toad.

Toads live 4 to 24 years. it depends on the breed of toad. Neville got Trevor when he was eight, I think it was a full grown toad. So Trevor is around 8 or 9.
Unforunately, it does not follow. JKR already said that magical creatures live longer than "garden variety". Now, I am perfectly convinced that Trevor is not a regular toad, at the very least a magical one. My reasons are mostly in the occasion which brought Trevor to Neville. Uncle Archibald bought Trevor for Neville when Neville first had shown signs of magical talent, before the poor boy was considered a squib. His uncle was very happy, so he made a present. Now, was it an occasion to give an ordinary animal? Surely the gift had to be magical, or it would be cruel to the boy. No, Uncle Archibald had some solid reasons to think Trevor special. And we have no reference to Trevor's age. As i suggested before, he could be several hundreds years old, for all we know.

Toads live 4 to 24 years. it depends on the breed of toad. Neville got Trevor when he was eight, I think it was a full grown toad. So Trevor is around 8 or 9.


Actually, Neville got the toad when he was admitted to Hogwarts. (SS - American 125) Some European common toads can live up to 40 years. But, naturally a magical toad might live longer.


Something to think about:Not only was Trevor trying to escape the night that Harry got the stone in PS/SS, where did they find Trevor.....Lurking in the bathrooms. hmmm.

Hmm, Belgarath2, are you sure that the HBP could be a new potions teacher? Because JKR keeps saying that in future books we'll find out more about why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and we wouldn't find more unless he was a major role in the books, would we? Taking him away from the Potions position would just make it harder for her to tell us more about him.

Couldn't've said it better myself. :D Snape isn 't fileld out for any other teacher than potions. I think it could be dangerous if he was the DADA teacher... he could make Harry suffer even worse, and in his favorite subject!!

I hafta give credit to this theory even if it ends up being completely wrong, because it's well thought out.

I think the potion idea would also explain why the Harry and Dumbledore are staring into a bowl(assumed to be the pensieve) on the American cover. I've heard some say that it doesn't look like a pensieve, that may turn out to be true, perhaps it is a potion.

hmmm. maybe the Half-Blood Prince is a gay bar and the 6th book is about harry's coming out of the closet. :lol:

lol. So, all this time, it's gonna be Harry and Ron? :p

I have read through many many pages of this thread and I can't seem to find any "Aberforth as HBP" supporters (although I know they must be out there). I think both he and Dumbledore are STRONG candidates for HBP and the "lion man" could describe Aberforth, or Dumbledore for that matter, some years ago as seen in the pensive.

Your first theory about the 'new' potions master becoming the half-blood prince is entirely plausible, but the second about it being a potion?! That's just going to far. I'd dunk my head in a toliet if that really happened.

If Aberforth is the barman at the Hogshead then we do have a description of him and he doesn't look like the lion man.

From OotP: The barman sidled towards them out of a back room. He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long grey hair and beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry.

No limp, no tawny hair.

Some of you may remember what I suggested a few weeks ago : that the Half-Blood Prince is a character closely associated with young Tom Riddle, possibly a relative, maybe even a brother...
He would have been nicknamed "the half-blood prince" by Tom.
And Tom would have killed him at some point... probably quite early.

Now... here is something JKR said last August :
Has Voldemort or Tom Riddle ever cared for or loved anyone?

Now, that’s a cracking question to end with—very good. No, never. [Laughter.] If he had, he couldn’t possibly be what he is. You will find out a lot more about that. It is a good question, because it leads us rather neatly to Half Blood Prince, although I repeat for the millionth time that Voldemort is not the half blood prince, which is what a lot of people thought. He is definitely, definitely not.(Underline mine).

Hmmmm... that would fit, wouldn't it ?

His mother died in childbirth and he was raised in a orphanage. His mother was abandoned when his father learned that she was a witch. When and where was this brother born?

Oh and for the half-blood title to mean anything his mother would have to be the mother of the dead brother. That would make him the older brother. And therefore the title prince would not apply if you are using the nickname to imply that Voldemort considered himself king.

His mother died in childbirth and he was raised in a orphanage. His mother was abandoned when his father learned that she was a witch. When and where was this brother born?

One possibility : at the same time as Tom. They were twins.

I doubt seriously that Tom had a brother. He would have been found dead with his father and grandparents.

I can't see how Snape can be the HBP, isn't he pure blood. Anyways, I think he can be Half blood, maybe his mom was a muggle. I just can't picture Snape as the HBP, but I can picture Trevor as prince. The Half-Blood Prince might be a diary.

How about that voldemorts father ended up with another wife that was a witch, they would be brothers and the child would be half blood?