Lily's significance: Two parts

I found this quote while browsing around and I really wanted to bring it here and get some opinion on it.

"Now the important thing about Harry’s mother, the really, really significant thing, you’re going to find out in 2 parts. You’ll find out a lot more about her in Book 5, or you’ll find out something very significant about her in Book 5, then you’ll find out something incredibly important about her in Book 7. But I can’t tell you what those things are so I’m sorry, but yes, you will find out more about her because both of them are very important in what Harry ends up having to do."

~J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999

What was the significant thing we learned in Book 5? Is it that Lily knew about the prophecy, or is it something else?

When JKR says, "What Harry ends up having to do," is she referring to the way he is going to finally defeat Voldemort?

That's tricky, didn't see anything in book five which looks like something significant about Lily, dunno... :sad:

What was the significant thing we learned in Book 5? Is it that Lily knew about the prophecy, or is it something else?
Maybe that she was in the Order? Can't think of anything else off the top of my head... :huh:


When JKR says, "What Harry ends up having to do," is she referring to the way he is going to finally defeat Voldemort?
Probably. :)

uuuhm... I just came across this thread and an idea crossed my mind: her last name, I mean her maiden name, when James draws it on his parchment: did we know her maiden name before this?? what could be the significance?
what I also consider important is her character as it is revealed in her attitude towards Snape being mistreated by James. I think there's more to this but I have to still give it more thought....

what I also consider important is her character as it is revealed in her attitude towards Snape being mistreated by James. I think there's more to this but I have to still give it more thought....
Yeah, it is definately the kind heart she has. She stands up to bullies. She doesn't like seeing the weak hurt. It is all reminiscent of her throwing herself in front of Harry.

i think the thing in book 7 will be to do with harry killing voldemort. as for the refrence in book 5 i agree with mlp36 which assures me furthur that harry will end up sacraficing himself or taking the moral high road

I think the things we found out in book 5 were that she disliked james for most of her hogwarts life and that she sacrificed herself for Harry, and it was that sacrifice that saved him, plus the charm she placed upon him.

so, what if Harry's paranoid thought about James bewitching Lily is not totally far out after all??? he thinks this when he feels ashamed of his father mistreating snape... could it be??? and they fell in love afterwards? it's called the Stockholm-syndrom (or Helsinki?) because of some hostage falling for their captors... weird thought, I know!

[QUOTE=The LionHeart]I found this quote while browsing around and I really wanted to bring it here and get some opinion on it.

"Now the important thing about Harry’s mother, the really, really significant thing, you’re going to find out in 2 parts. You’ll find out a lot more about her in Book 5, or you’ll find out something very significant about her in Book 5, then you’ll find out something incredibly important about her in Book 7. But I can’t tell you what those things are so I’m sorry, but yes, you will find out more about her because both of them are very important in what Harry ends up having to do."

~J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999

What was the significant thing we learned in Book 5? Is it that Lily knew about the prophecy, or is it something else? QUOTE]

I found this quote too and was confused by it, I don't think that we found out anything that could be described as 'really significant' about her in book 5, although maybe its just that we don't realise that its 'really signficant' yet. Although she said the incredibly important thing will happen in Book 7, i'm really hoping for at least some info about Lily in book 6 because we really know very little about her, and an awful lot about James!

Whatever the first "significant thing" about Lily is, I think JKR saved it for Book 6. We didn't really learn anything special about her in Book 5, except that she couldn't stand James when they were in fifth year, but I think the Pensieve scene was there to foreshadow something else.

What I've been thinking about since I posted this thread is that we are supposed to be learning something big about Lily in Book 6. Perhaps Jo changed her mind and transferred whatever was initially meant for OoTP in to HBP. Maybe it has to do with the opening chapter of book 6 (since she did plan to use it in book 5). This would make sense since many speculate it to be about the night Lily sacrificed herself for Harry.

What I've been thinking about since I posted this thread is that we are supposed to be learning something big about Lily in Book 6. Perhaps Jo changed her mind and transferred whatever was initially meant for OoTP in to HBP. Maybe it has to do with the opening chapter of book 6 (since she did plan to use it in book 5). This would make sense since many speculate it to be about the night Lily sacrificed herself for Harry.


aaah yes, that would make a lot more sense! :agree:

Maybe it has to do with the opening chapter of book 6 (since she did plan to use it in book 5). This would make sense since many speculate it to be about the night Lily sacrificed herself for Harry.

She did say that that same chapter was planned as the opening chapterd for books 1 and 3 as well, I doubt much in there would give too much away about Lily.

Up until book 5, we never actually knew that lily sacraficed herself for Harry in that way, only that she tried to protect him and died in the process. Book five finally told us that she was willing to die right at that moment to save Harry. I think that was what JKR was talking about. Nothing majorly big (well, I say that, it is pretty significant) and I guess we can expect more in book 7.

Strange... the only "new" thing we learned about Lily in OoTP was that she couldn't stand James.

Lily is def. signifagint. i mean she's the reason why harry's alive. plus the last book talks alot about james so i think it is lily's turn now.

She did say that that same chapter was planned as the opening chapterd for books 1 and 3 as well, I doubt much in there would give too much away about Lily.

Ahh too true! Maybe the reason she didn't use it is because she wanted to save this information for later.

I think that we will learn that even though the "Ka", part of her soul has pased through the veil. part of her soul is in Harry. That is the good, or angel, part of his consince.

The Boston Globe, October 18, 1999 (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-bostonglobe-loer.html) Do you know what Harry's parents look like?
JK: "Yes. I've even drawn a picture of how they look. Harry has his father and mother's good looks. But he has his mother's eyes and that's very important in a future book."So we know early on that Harry has his mothers eyes.
I don't think we learn about the colour of her eyes until OotP. It was one of the girls from the lake edge. She had thick, dark red hair that fell to her shoulders, and startlingly green almond-shaped eyes - Harry's eyes. OotP. P.570. Snapes Worst Memory. UK Paperback Unless someone knows different? :angel:

In book five, we discover that Lily was in the Order (no surprises there) and we discover that she has a social conscience (defending Snape) and she wasn't always outwardly fond of her future husband James. We also find out more about the ancient magic she invokes to protect Baby Harry. Harry may have to make use of this ancient magic (or a variant of it) to defeat Voldemort again, as it worked *sort of* once already.

Harry learned two things from OOtp, the bully that his father was (Snape can't be completey blameless in all of this, we did see that from his perspective after all), and that his mother was a decent person. Stood upto bullys and defended people she may not have even liked. She also seems to have that same disregard for rules, even more so than James and co. In the sense that she may well have tipped the balance to save Harry from Voldemort the first time around.
Then there are those green eyes they both have. My grandmother used to say that the eyes are a window into a persons soul and that you can tell a lot about them by looking directly at someone in the eyes (i think thats how she detected lies hehe).

Here is a recap of the things we learned about Lily- I am listing them so that you out there can work out your theories and figure out which are significant:

1. She wanted to die to save Harry

2. Harry was saved through some kind of magical action of Lily's after her death (LV killed her before turning his wand on little Harry)

3. She didn't really like James that much when they were in school. She thought he was an arrogant git. (at least when they were 15)

4. She stood up for Snape at first- didn't like to see someone bullied.

5. Was then disappointed when Snape called her a name - "mudblood"

6. Had green eyes, like Harry's

7. Had a Muggle family with a sister who despised her- probably due to jealousy over her magical abilities.



Anything we missed? Which do you think are significant?

Well, I'm thinking along the lines of how she acted towards James and Sirius, when Snape was mistreated. What that scene showed me, was that she was good-hearted, and cared about persons, despite others dislike of them. That tells me, that she's brave and stands up for what she believes in and would not allow innocents to be taunted around. Exactly that, I think could play a big part in the last parts, as if his parents really has such a big influence of what he is going to end up doing. If Harry is really, at some point during the series, given the choice between kill or forgiveness, I'd say that he'd chose forgiveness. Also, let's not forget that James too, would have chose forgiveness over kill (referring to Pettigrew); Dumbledore tells Harry this in Azkaban.

Dunno, if that made any sort of sense, but oh well…

Okay, so a little farfetched (and completely out of character for myself, but what the heck), but here';s a way out there theory. What if Lily tried to keep all of her bases covered just in case and she performed a charm on Petunia, or sent her a letter or something. Remember, we found out that Petunia knows more than she's letting on in OotP and Petunia is Lily's sister.

Of course this is the kind of theory that I hate because it relies on very little canon and is very farfetched, but I've put it out there anyway for you to ponder. Maybe the thing we find out about Lily is what we find out about Petunia, we just don't know the theories are related...yet.

I was thinking that it is the characters of Lily and James that are important. I mean, we now know that she was intolerant of bullying (and of James).

We know from the film (and JK Rowling helped write the script) from Remus, that she could see beauty within people even when they couldn’t see in within themselves. This reinforces what we see in OotP, her kindness and standing up to James. But it is also important that as quick as she puts in her help for Snape, she also withdraws it. This, I believe, is important; it shows that she will do the right thing if she is allowed, and will not waste her energy defending those who don’t want to be defended. She is not arrogant to think she has a duty to protect everyone, but that does not mean she won’t try.

I also think that we can learn a lot more about James, beside him being a "bullying toerag". For example, if the werewolf incident happened at the end of fifth year, right after OWLs, perhaps, then James would have grown up during sixth year. For Lily to go out with him during seventh, he would have to have matured considerably. It also says something about Lily; that she can swallow her pride and grab happiness.

I still think that Lily had a back up plan if Voldemort attacked, even though there is no evidence for that.

There is a lot we can now guess about James and Lily; I don't think James would change a lot just for her, but perhaps show more of his good sides? If that is the case, then maybe she remained a bit sceptical to many of the things James did or said, and was probably the one that had the common sense, besides acting in the role that Remus failed, which was to keep James and Sirius in order.

We can also say that she trusted Sirius, because she allowed him to be Harry's godfather, and obviously accepted his plan to make Peter secret keeper. We know she was a talented witch enough to make James look at her wand wearily, and, there is also the theory, to perform the Fidelius charm, as Dumbledore always though Sirius was the one, so he probably wasn't the one to perform it.

Hmmm. I also wonder if Snape was in love with Lily, a little bit, and loathed himself for it.

I also wonder how much Lily had to do with Petunia before she died - if there are things that Petunia would have done for Lily, pre or post-mortem.

Hmmm. I also wonder if Snape was in love with Lily, a little bit, and loathed himself for it.

I also wonder how much Lily had to do with Petunia before she died - if there are things that Petunia would have done for Lily, pre or post-mortem.

I suppose its always possible about Snape and Lily, although there is no evidence so far for either way. Hopefully we'll discover with the next book.

We don't know anything about Petunia, really. When we thought we did, she just had to let out that she knew about dementors, which pretty much changes the whole perspective we have of her: if she hates Harry's world so much, if she puts so much energy in pretending it doesn't exist, then why would she have kept that information?

ARG! Only 37 days.... I can't wait!

Okay, so a little farfetched (and completely out of character for myself, but what the heck), but here';s a way out there theory. What if Lily tried to keep all of her bases covered just in case and she performed a charm on Petunia, or sent her a letter or something. Remember, we found out that Petunia knows more than she's letting on in OotP and Petunia is Lily's sister.

Actually, I don't think it's that farfetched. I don't know if it's true or not, but it does seem to me that the most significant things we learned about Lily were also about Petunia. In other words, about Lily's family.

As for anything really significant about Lily herself, nothing really struck me as such. I guess I'm going to have to read OotP again.

Side note - does anyone know how old the Potter's were when Harry was born? I keep thinking I should know this, but I don't. I'd like to know how many years passed between Lily trying to stop james from tormenting Snape and her dying to save her son.

Well, they got together in year seven at Hogwarts, so they were seventeen, and lets say it took them two or three years to marry after Hogwarts and about a year or two after that to have Harry. A year later they're killed, so that would make them between 20 and 22, but I could be way off considering I'm guessing here. Still that would make Lupin between 35 and 37 in book 6, which seems about right to me, I wouldn't think of him as being that old, but still pretty old (sorry to anyone in that age group if I've offended you :p)

Is it possible that the Big thing we find out about Lily is that she was the Death Eater who Voldie said had left us for good ie Died. Harry was upset when he saw that James was less than perfect so imagine if Lily was a Death Eater cool twist. Voldie perhaps wanted Lilys eyes?

This is the reason he did not want to kill her. She perhaps had saw the good in Voldie.(Like Luke sees the good in Darth Vader even though he was a mass murderer) (or perhaps he had her in a spell?) and thought she could help him find peace in the wizarding world. So joined forces with him.

Perhaps it was only the prophcey (spelling) that made Lily see sense as she knew Voldie would come for Harry.

This is perhaps why Petunia dislikes Harry and Lily as she might have been a supporter for Voldie?

JK Rowling has already said somewhere (I can't remember where, though) that she wasn't a Death Eater.

No idea why Voldemort would give her a chance to live, "stand aside, silly girl, stand aside" (or something like that). I agree with the theory that Lily knew in advance she MIGHT have to sacrifice herself, and so took some kind of precaution so that it would make a difference to the life of her son. Anyway, perhaps she was trying to buy time to do something? I mean, from what we saw in Snape's Worst Memory, she doesn't look like the type who would go down without a fight... Perhaps she was manipulating Voldemort, making him feel powerful by begging and breaking down, when in fact she was doing something else?

So we know early on that Harry has his mothers eyes.
I don't think we learn about the colour of her eyes until OotP.

Well, since we know that Harry has green eyes, it would have been safe to assume that if he had his mother's eyes they would have been green as well.
I do think her eyes are extremely important, and isn't it interesting that they are green, seeing as the AK curse emits a flash of green light and it is a color typically associated with Slytherin house? Does anyone think that is symbolic in some way?
Also, maybe Lily was a Seer, or had a premonition at some point, and this is why her eyes are important. There have been times when I wondered about Harry, for instance, down in the Chamber of Secrets, he stabs Tom Riddle's diary with the basilisk fang "...without thinking, without considering,as though he had meant to do it all along." (COS, 237,US edition, paperback) It's like he knew what to do, like something guided him. Thoughts??

Tying in with the scene from Snape's worst memory... We know very little about Lily, James, Snape, and all of the involved characters when they were that age. We don't know what kinds of relationships they had with each other, although we have a quite clear idea from this scene. Part of me questions whether Lily was defending Snape because she didn't like that he was being bullied, or rather because they have some kind of friendship? I just think that Snape must have something to do with Harry being saved and thats why Dumbledore likes him, etc...

Interesting Lionheart. Maybe there's some kind of connection Harry has with his mother. I'm not saying she's alive, she's very much dead, but there's a connection between Voldy and Harry because of the scar, maybe his eyes holds some kind of connection with his mother and he has some kind of internal struggle between the good in him and the bad in him.

I quite like that theory actually.

Interesting Lionheart. Maybe there's some kind of connection Harry has with his mother. I'm not saying she's alive, she's very much dead, but there's a connection between Voldy and Harry because of the scar, maybe his eyes holds some kind of connection with his mother and he has some kind of internal struggle between the good in him and the bad in him.

I quite like that theory actually.

Joshi, yes, I like that, too! The bad being the part that Voldemort influences and all those abilities transferred from him, and the good being his "saving-people thing" and abhorrence of the dark arts, from his mom and dad. Lily's ability to "see the beauty in others" (quote from POA movie) could also be something Harry has inherited. Perhaps he will ultimately have to forgive Snape, and this will be one of the things that will allow him to defeat Voldemort. With Voldemort now alive, by this I mean powerful and with a body, and with Lily being dead, maybe the darker side of Harry will become more prominent. I think we've seen some evidence of this in OotP...

I rambled...:)

The only realy question would be does Dumbldore know? It could be something Lily did in secret, maybe not even James knew because Lily knew she would have to die soon to protect Harry so she put part of herself into Harry. Her asking Voldemort to take her life in Harry's place could have been her finalising the spell that protected Harry and put part of her into him turning his eyes green (even with a green eye'd parent, the chances of green eyes being passed down is slimmer than blue or brown, it's a science thing)

Harry has photographs of himself as a baby from Hagrid, he probably would have noticed if his eyes were once blue then and now are a bright green. I know baby's eye color changes a bit but I doubt it could be that extreme.

About Dumbledore, he didn't know that Peter became the secret keeper, so it is possible that he didn't know some other last-minute plans the Potters put in to action.

The thing that confuses me about Harry's eyes is that they're his mother's, and yet he still wears glasses like his father did. Why do you think that is?

That's true, but i wouldn't put it past JKR to put in something of that nature, even if his eyes were always green

Strange... the only "new" thing we learned about Lily in OoTP was that she couldn't stand James.


maybe that is the significant thing. harrys parents couldnt stand eachother. its was prophecised to them that their offspring would be the chosen one. a bit far fetched but you never know.

I suppose its always possible about Snape and Lily, although there is no evidence so far for either way. Hopefully we'll discover with the next book.

I said something like this on the Snape's Worst Memory thread & was studiously ignored, so I'll run it up the flagpole here & see if you salute it.
I feel quite strongly that this is exactly what is significant about Lily (I don't know why yet), and I think there is evidence. Why exactly is that particular episode Snape's Worst Memory? How many other times must the Marauders have ganged up on him & humiliated him, & there was that time where he was almost killed when Sirius sent him after Remus, but no, it's this one that is the worst. The reason has to be the presence of Lily. Imagine, he's 15, from a troubled background, a misfit who is disliked by everyone, & bullied by the coolest guys in the school. Lily is not only popular & pretty, but kind too - she tries to defend him &, (prickly 15 year old pride) he lashes out at her. He must have known he never had a chance with her, but that really puts the tin lid on it, she makes that quite clear. Plus she has seen him with his (grubby) knickers on display! The pathos!

I also think this is why he loathes Harry before he has even spoken to him - Harry is the proof that he lost in every way, with her eyes in his tormentors face. It would be like wearing a hair shirt, every time he sees him it's a reminder of that memory. He is hysterical when they come out of the Pensieve, perhaps because he knows Harry is fairly quick on the uptake, & is terrified he will suss. He tries to turn the attention to his feud with James "amusing man, your father" but I don't buy it, for the reasons given. He's lucky it wasn't Hermione, she would have twigged straight off!

I've also just thought, the thing about turning him upside down & showing his kecks has some rather unsettling correlations with the Death Eaters & the Roberts' after the World Cup.

It is possible that Snape secretly liked Lily, though I personally doubt it. My question is how does that further the plot? What would the purpose of Snape liking Lily be for Harry's mysterious destiny and what he will have to do in the end?

Perhaps Snape will sarcifice himself for Harry at some point in the next two books. Perhaps Lily was crucial in Snape's redemption because she had trust in him.

I feel quite strongly that this is exactly what is significant about Lily (I don't know why yet), and I think there is evidence. Why exactly is that particular episode Snape's Worst Memory? How many other times must the Marauders have ganged up on him & humiliated him, & there was that time where he was almost killed when Sirius sent him after Remus, but no, it's this one that is the worst. The reason has to be the presence of Lily. Imagine, he's 15, from a troubled background, a misfit who is disliked by everyone, & bullied by the coolest guys in the school. Lily is not only popular & pretty, but kind too - she tries to defend him &, (prickly 15 year old pride) he lashes out at her. He must have known he never had a chance with her, but that really puts the tin lid on it, she makes that quite clear. Plus she has seen him with his (grubby) knickers on display! The pathos!

This is one of the nicest interpretations I've seen. One of the good things in this theory is that it weaves the mystery of Snape into the story of Lily and Harry. THis may even touch on the mystery of why Dumbledore trusts Snape even if he was a Death Eater.

Perhaps a part of Snape loathes Harry because he is a striking resemblance of his father (which Snape never fails to remind him --- I think he said something in those lines in every book). But part of Snape feels a drop of affection towards Harry because he's Lily's son. And he wasn't able to save Lily but he has tried all he can to save Harry. When he was countercursing the broom that Quirrel hexed in book 1, when he taught him occlumency, stuff like that.

And in book 5, we feel less hateful of Snape because of the presence of Umbridge, and the fact that Snape was showing more and more signs that he is truly on the side of the Order.

Lily as in Snape's worst memory is in no way like the weak, crying Lily in Harry's memory. Knowing how she acts in normal life it would have been very OoC for her to cry and hope for Voldemort's mercy. This would raise the suspision that she was acting the whole Godric's Hollow scene.

I was under the impression that in OoTP we learnt that Lily sacraficed herself for Harry because she knew of the prophecy.

Perhaps that's why she didn't move aside when Voldemort told her to. She knew that Harry was going to be marked in this attack and his survival was more important then her own.

The overwhelming love she had for Harry is also something we learn about. Her sacrifice was about love more then anything and love is something Lord Voldemort fails to understand.

Personally, I think we learnt quite a lot about Lily in OoTP and not from Snape's Worst Memory, either. Dumbledore's talk at the end and Petunia acknowledging her sister at the start of the book were all important, or so I felt.

I think we did learn a lot about Lily, but the fact that something "huge is revealed" in the sixth book, just the one thing, makes me think that the significant thing she planned for book 5 was indeed postponed until book 6. Perhaps it has to do with her mudblood heritage, as this book will be dealing more intensely with the issue of blood.

I think if you look up and to the left,towards the part of your brain that stores memories, you are trying to remember, if you look up and to the right,using the creative part of your brain, you are lying.

I still think that Harry has part of his mother, just like he has part of Voldy, as
DD has told us.
I think Harry's luck is sort of like the fight or flight reasction. The subconsious part of your brain, takes over and you can do things that you would not otherwise be able to do.

It is possible that Snape secretly liked Lily, though I personally doubt it. My question is how does that further the plot? What would the purpose of Snape liking Lily be for Harry's mysterious destiny and what he will have to do in the end?

I don't know, the reason being, I haven't read HBP yet! But it could potentially have all sorts of implications. Unrequited love is a pretty potent force - I could have pushed Snape into going the whole hog & becoming a Death Eater (not that he needed much of a nudge), or it could have been the thing that pulled him away from Voldemort. He could have felt that he owed Lily a debt for calling her a mudblood (or more accurately, for feeling that way in the first place). There's a lot we don't know about the events surrounding the Godrics Hollow incident, & why DD trusts Snape, and chucking a chap of such an obviously passionate nature into the mix makes it potentially explosive (if you'll pardon the pun). Snape's a very smouldering sort of bloke, don't you think? Love of all kinds is probably the most important theme in the books - It's just another aspect of that.

the fact that something "huge is revealed" in the sixth book, just the one thing, makes me think that the significant thing she planned for book 5 was indeed postponed until book 6.

I don't agree - I think JKR is pretty careful about what she reveals, and wouldn't have said anything unless it was definite.

If I'm wrong when we get to the end of the series, I'm happy to come back & grovel, but I don't think I am (well, I wouldn't, would I ?)! I'm not saying it's the only thing we learn about Lily - I think the fact that Petunia is obviously much more au fait with the wizarding world that she lets on is also important.

I think that it is impossible to decide if Snape did or not love Lily at this point in the series, or interpret reactions he has towards Harry or in the pensieve, mostly because we know so little about Snape himself... or Lily, for that matter.

What really drew my attention in OotP is that the way Lily reacts to Voldemort in PoA does not fit very well in the way she acts in Snape's Worst Memory. I agree with the theory that she was in fact acting, or something, to try and get Voldemort in some kind of position in which the ancient magic Dumbledore mentions would work and keep Harry alive. But still, hardly any evidence, except for the brief glimpses of her.

I just don't see JKR using the concept of Snape loving Lily, it seems a little paperback novel-ish, if you know what I mean.
Could happen, I guess, but I would be a bit disappointed if it did.

**On a completely unrelated note: Has anyone else noticed, in the PS movie, that McGonagall's name appears on the trophy Hermione shows Harry (the one where James Potter is a "seeker" even though he is actually a chaser in the books)? Why would they put that there?

maybe Harry will sacrifice himself for someone he love and once again Voldemort curse will rebound and kill him this time??? That thought just came to my head.

FYI - The first mention of Lily's eyes being green like Harry's is on page 208 of Sorcerer's/Philospher's Stone. It keeps being mentioned in POA also. We learn her maiden name (Evans) in OoP. Regarding Lily's "feelings" toward James in their fifth year, I would suggest reading the latest editorial in the Underground Lake. Very interesting theory regarding Snape's memories. I do believe some of Snape's animosity towards Harry may be that he did not win Lily but James did and Harry is the product of Lily and James love, not to mention Harry is the reason Lily is now dead (so to speak). Something that keeps coming back to me is Sirius statement that "The pure-blood families are all interrelated" (OoP p.113). According to Dumbledor there are no more heirs to Slytherin. If the Riddles and the Evan's were related would that define Harry as an heir of Slytherin or not since they would be related on the muggle side? Well, just thoughts.

I'm not sure what the important thing about Lily was, but it is possible it will be in HBP. I read a little snippet on JKR's website about Petunia that said something like, "there's more to her than meets the eye." Could the important fact about Lily have to do with her relationship w/ Petunia?

I just don't see JKR using the concept of Snape loving Lily, it seems a little paperback novel-ish, if you know what I mean.
Could happen, I guess, but I would be a bit disappointed if it did.

I can't see her using it either. I just think that maybe we are all going the wrong way on this. As I've said before, we know very little about Snape, the way he thinks and how he acted at school.

In any case, back to Lily perhaps there is something big that was revealed about her... we just don't know it yet. Her character, for one; her relationship with James, for example...

Not sure if I've said this already, but I think that what we do know about Lily is:
1. she has a strong character (what we've seen of her does not fit with PoA)
2. apparently, she is good enough with magic to make James, who is pretty much good at everything he did, look at her her wand warily
3. we know she was capable of giving up her own life to save her son's

What I think is that she was probably powerful and resourceful (she did, after all, escape Voldemort three times), and the calming influence on James, because I very much doubt he would go through a complete change of personality for her sake. Lily probably got along with the marauders, and trusted Sirius (he became godfather to Harry, after all). From her wand, which is good for charm work, we can assume that was her best subject. We also know that there is some kind of link between her eyes and Harry's, whether symbolical or magical we can't know yet. My best guess is that Harry will eventually find out he's more like his mother (who, until now, he hasn't asked a single question about) than his father.

We've been kept deliberately in the dark about Lily, and the reason for that is that the more we find out about her, the more we would probably find out about the night she died, which would lead to the connection between Voldemort and Harry, which would then reveal what would have to be done in the final confrontation (supposedly, of course). All this is what supports my thought, as I keep saying over and over again (which might, perhaps, be proven wrong sometime very soon), that Lily probably had a plan B in case Voldemort found them.

I'm hoping that the important thing we were meant to find out about Lily in book 5 has actually been moved to book 6. I like what we saw of her in book 5, but it wasn't enough; it didn't strike me as important particularly that she was a good and brave person who stood up for the oppressed and for herself. We already knew, from book one's Mirror of Erised onwards, that she had red hair and the same green eyes as Harry. We found out that she was in the Order, but we could have guessed that. We were told her surname beforehand in an interview, and I can't see any significance for it yet. Perhaps one of these things will become very important in the future, so that in retrospect we'll see it was an important thing we were told about Lily?

Maybe it was that James was an arrogant prat and she didn't approve of him; because that shows how much James (or she) must have changed by seventh year. We'll just have to hope for more information!

Maybe it was that James was an arrogant prat and she didn't approve of him; because that shows how much James (or she) must have changed by seventh year. We'll just have to hope for more information! by tiphany

I agree. james was a brat and she didn't like him at all. She didn't even hang out with him and his croonies. Both James and Sirius came from wizard families, so maybe she felt uncomfortable because she was not pureblood. The question is, so what happened that suddenly she started liking James, married him and joined the order? There must have been something affecting or threatening her or whatever that made her ultimately take sides. (yes Voldemort came to power and what not but still there must have been something relating to her specifically).....Maybe it's related to Snape being drwn into the Death Eaters circle.

Edit: Ok this is totally unrelated. Does anyone know at what age did Lily had Harry? what if Harry has a brother..not younger but older, and he is the Half Blood Prince?

I feel quite strongly that this is exactly what is significant about Lily (I don't know why yet), and I think there is evidence. Why exactly is that particular episode Snape's Worst Memory? How many other times must the Marauders have ganged up on him & humiliated him, & there was that time where he was almost killed when Sirius sent him after Remus, but no, it's this one that is the worst. The reason has to be the presence of Lily. Imagine, he's 15, from a troubled background, a misfit who is disliked by everyone, & bullied by the coolest guys in the school. Lily is not only popular & pretty, but kind too - she tries to defend him &, (prickly 15 year old pride) he lashes out at her. He must have known he never had a chance with her, but that really puts the tin lid on it, she makes that quite clear. Plus she has seen him with his (grubby) knickers on display! The pathos!
I've also just thought, the thing about turning him upside down & showing his kecks has some rather unsettling correlations with the Death Eaters & the Roberts' after the World Cup.

I agree that it's Lily being there that makes this Snape's worst memory, but I'm not totally sold on the idea of him having romatic feelings for her. I think it may have been a defining moment in his life, symbolic of the fact that after all the times he has been mistreated, he is honestly not capable of accepting kindness when it's offered to him. I have my own theories as to the significance of this memory, but (since Lily isn't really involved) I guess it doesn't belong in this thread. Oh, and I've also been thinking about the creepy parallel between the death eaters at the world cup and what the marauders did to Snape. I think it's another example of the whole "world isn't divided into good people and death eaters" thing. JKR wants us to really get the fact that people are complicated and good and evil are hard distinctions to make sometimes.
To everyone who said that Lily's actions in OotP don't match up with her begging for Harry's life in PoA, I must say - okay, I guess it could have been an act, but I think a person might do something out of character if the life of her child were at risk. I'd stand up to a bully anyday, but if someone wanted to kill my child, I'd do anything (literally anything, including beg, kill, die, whatever) to save that child.
Oh, and Occlumentia, I completely agree with your theory. Snape will die to save Harry. I really believe it!

Edit: Ok this is totally unrelated. Does anyone know at what age did Lily had Harry? what if Harry has a brother..not younger but older, and he is the Half Blood Prince?

I gather Lily and James got married and had Harry pretty much straight out of school. The Lexicon has all the details, but the argument goes something like this: from an interview we know that Snape was about 35 or 36 in OotP. Snape was in the same school year, and therefore was almost certainly the same age, as Lily and the Marauders. If Snape was 35 when Harry was 15, then Lily and James would have been 35 when Harry was 15, so they would have had him when they were 20. If I've got all that right, then I suppose they just about could have an older child; now that really would be a revelation about Lily, especially if James wasn't the child's father. However, I think it's pretty unlikely;

(a) someone would surely have mentioned the sibling to Harry by now.
(b) the sibling would be at school with Harry. The school's not that big; people would notice, including Harry.
(c) where was the sibling while the rest of the Potters were in hiding at Godric's Hollow? We'd have been told if the sibling had died, or had had a miraculous escape like Harry's, wouldn't we? And what would be the reason for the three-year-old not being there with the rest of the family?

Maybe they were trying to hide him/her (the brother or sister I mean)...and maybe they sent it away..after all, Harry never found out until he was 11 and had to go to school....and there are other schools the brother could have been sent to.

But thanks for answering about the ages. I never thought about that...Gosh, if they had Harry at 20, then 21 is a very ugly age to die. *shuders*

PS: Sorry I have been away for a long time and I'm kind of out of it, but the Lexicon is a website right?

I'm hoping that the important thing we were meant to find out about Lily in book 5 has actually been moved to book 6. I like what we saw of her in book 5, but it wasn't enough; it didn't strike me as important particularly that she was a good and brave person who stood up for the oppressed and for herself.

I'm so glad to hear this, I feel very much the same way. Question is, why would she change the plan? My answer is that she moved the beginning chapter around quite a bit, and this quote is from back in 1999. It still could have been part of book 5 back then. I believe our revelation about Lily will come from this first chapter that "has been in the brewing for 13 years."

Okay...so I’m going to string a lot of crazy theories together – but here goes:

In their 6th year at Hogwarts more happens between Lilly and Snape. Severus falls for her and then takes it extremely hard when he’s spurned and Lilly chooses James. This is what finally pushes Snape over to the dark side and I’m convinced he’s instrumental in helping Voldemort establish immortality. Later, when Voldemort is closing in on the Potters, I think Snape shares Voldemort’s Achilles’ heel with either Lilly or Dumbledore thus providing the necessary information for Lilly to protect Harry.

It’s the first theory I’ve come up with that truly fits both Snape’s resentment of Harry and Dumbledore’s trust in Snape. It also explains why J.K. loves writing Snape – he’s the closest thing to Vader she’s got.

Thoughts?

It's driving me nuts waiting for the 6th book to come out, and to find out what the huge thing to be revealed about Lily is. I think it is something that she did, rather than a trait of hers or that someone loved her (ie Snape). My best guess so far is that she was an Unspeakable, working in the DOM and perhaps even worked in the room that melted Sirius' knife (the one that contains the mysterious force some speculate to be love) and either discovered something there or was working on a project of some sort that will be of use to Harry in the future.

I think it is something that she did, rather than a trait of hers or that someone loved her (ie Snape). My best guess so far is that she was an Unspeakable, working in the DOM and perhaps even worked in the room that melted Sirius' knife (the one that contains the mysterious force some speculate to be love) and either discovered something there or was working on a project of some sort that will be of use to Harry in the future.
That would be wonderful. I love it.

I think what Lily did that will become important to what Harry has to do (and by that i assume to vanquish voldy) was to show compassion to the villain (potentially!). Remember the lupin/harry on the bridge scene in the POA film where Lupin talks about Lily seeing the beauty in others... what if she tried to help Voldy in some way... kinda like with darth vader... trying to reach the bit of human left in him?? everyone else seems to want to destroy and kill Voldermort and i totally agree that he deserves it after all he has done... but there are worse things than death, perhaps Harry will vanquish Voldemort by following Lily's example of kindness and putting Tom Riddle on the road to redemption...

I think what Lily did that will become important to what Harry has to do (and by that i assume to vanquish voldy) was to show compassion to the villain (potentially!). Remember the lupin/harry on the bridge scene in the POA film where Lupin talks about Lily seeing the beauty in others... what if she tried to help Voldy in some way... kinda like with darth vader... trying to reach the bit of human left in him?? everyone else seems to want to destroy and kill Voldermort and i totally agree that he deserves it after all he has done... but there are worse things than death, perhaps Harry will vanquish Voldemort by following Lily's example of kindness and putting Tom Riddle on the road to redemption...

I like this, but I'm not sure Tom Riddle can be redeemed.

I think that Lily is a beautiful character that Harry sometimes ignores due to the fact that he's a guy and leans more towards James and his friends. I think that Harry is going to learn something about his mother that is very painful and it will make Harry know how much she loved him. I think it also deals with Severus. Harry thought at the end of OOTP that he'd never forgive Snape. However, it kind of seems to me that this is going to change because Lily's secrets will deal with Snape's also. It's that whole never say never thing.

I think that ultimately Harry is going to sacrifice himself just as Lily gave her life to save him.

Okay this is probably oging to sound very stupid or llogical, but hear me out...
The chapter in which Harry views this memory is titled "Snape's Worst Memory," which obviously means that that is exactly what Harry saw. However, it obviously isn't the first time that Snape has been publicly humiliated by James and Sirius, judging by the readiness of Snape when he reaches for his wand, and by the excitedness of the crowd around them. Why then would this be Snape's worst enemy? There are many rumors that Snape and Lily were previously involved with one another, and whether romanticaly or not, this theory does make sense. Snape doesn't have many friends, and perhaps he became close with Lily, and they secretly carried on a friendship. When he called her a mudblood in front of everyone maybe that was the day she broke off the relationship. That could be what we were supposed to learn about Lily, though I suppose we'll never know until we've read the next books, but we'll see. I have never taken seriously theories that suggested that Snape was Harry's father or that he and Lily were romantically involved, and I surely hope that is not the case. Anyway, we'll see!

I had the impression that Snape had a thing for Lily, perhaps because she stuck up for him, maybe because she disliked James. You know, I don't recall Snape ever making nasty comments about Lily to Harry -- only about his father, James.

Not that this bears any light to what the big decision is, but I am pretty sure it has something to with the prophecy.

What was it, finally, that turned her head in James' direction? I think we'll hear about this in HBP.

I don't think Lily came to Snape's rescue because she liked Snape, but because she saw someone being bullied and isn't one to stand back and let it happen. In PS/SS, Harry stands up for Neville when Draco steals his remembrall, and it isn't taken as a sign that Harry has feelings for Neville. In fact, Harry doesn't particularly like Neville at that point, or just feels neutrally about him. So, my point is that we can't say Lily liked Snape because she came to his rescue. It was just in her character to do so.

Secondly, there has been a lot of speculation about why the chapter was called "Snape's WORST Memory" (caps mine). I think it has something to do with the fact that his dirty tight-whities were shown to the crowd. I don't know about you, but if I hadn't changed my underpants in a while and the person I hated the most flipped me over and showed them to everyone, I would be right mortified, and may classify that as my worst memory. Remember, he's 15 at the time. Can it get worse than that?

I think the "significance" of Lily in Book 5 is that her role included not only dying for Harry, but her death is actually the reason he lived. I suppose it's not really a big shocker or anything, but it's definitely going to be a focus of the next two books: dying for someone else so they can live. I was thinking that maybe it might not be significant now but later on we'll look back and go, "How did we not see it?!", much the way many things are. Perhaps Snape's Worst Memory foreshadows a situation that we just don't know about yet.

Was she into Occulenancey or whatever that is? Maybe it was not just potions, but also her soul was protecting Harry...and that soul is looking out of Harry's eyes? ew...this sounds way out there....

I think the signifacent thing about Lily we found out in OOTP was that she couldn't stand bullies like James and Sirius and that she stood up for anybody that was beong bullied even if it met protecting Slytherins. Maybe she used to have a thing for Snape. :love:

When i first watched the films the odd thing that struck me was that harrys eyes were not green. Rowling said that she made sure nothing significant was left out, but surely this is very important. I think that harry has actually got lilys eyes because he is always told that he has lilys eyes and not that his eyes look like lilys. Maybe only the wizarding world see them and us muggles see them as they were. I know this is a bit far fetched but I have had this idea for a bit and wondered what anyone else thought about it

When i first watched the films the odd thing that struck me was that harrys eyes were not green. Rowling said that she made sure nothing significant was left out, but surely this is very important. I think that harry has actually got lilys eyes because he is always told that he has lilys eyes and not that his eyes look like lilys. Maybe only the wizarding world see them and us muggles see them as they were. I know this is a bit far fetched but I have had this idea for a bit and wondered what anyone else thought about it

That is a possible theory. I have heard a lot of other people making this comment also. This could possibly have been what Lily did while James tried to hold off Voldemort.

I think that the significance of Lily, at least in book 5 shows how much Harry has actually grown to be somewhat like her. I mean yes he is a little like James but he doesn't take all the risks that James would have. Plus, I also think that in future books we will learn more about the protection she left (duh) but also maybe the whole, did she switch eyes.
This might not have anything to do with it, and maybe someone has already mentioned it, but Lily's wand was good at charms. A lot of times emotions are in the eyes, and a lot of magic deals with emotion (like how powerful the spell can be). Maybe having her eyes show that he can produce powerful charms and spells.