Unfogging the Half-Blood Prince Cover Art v2.0 [Archive] - Page 7

Snivellus

July 8th, 2005, 9:42 pm

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25495&stc=1

First, lets get what we think we KNOW for a fact straightened out.

That Is Ron and Hermione.

They are in the area of Hogwarts/hogsmeade.

That is the dark mark in the sky.

Ron and Hermione are wearing rather thick coats or coverings.

There are AT LEAST 4 people (important because I doubt its only 4 people, if the dark mark is over hogwarts, not just ron, hermione, secret girl 1 and foggy person 2 are gonna be the only ones outside).

Now lets get some things we are pretty certain about, but not 100% sure.

It appears to be night out.

Their is "fog" around the people (although maybe it is anothe substance).

Ron appears to have a look of determination, as if prepared to do something (or maybe even make a dire sacrifice for the one's he loves) Whereas Hermione and "Ginny" appear to be frightened or shocked.

It appears to be a castle in the background, which could be hogwarts. Again see the picture: http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25495&stc=1.

Now for pure speculation that we have gathered together.

The person to the right of ron is dark skinned, maybe Dean or Parvati. Some say the person has feminie characteristics others dont. Personally I believe its Neville because he has a much more important roll than the other 2 have ever had, he was also with them in the DOM. I also think the red haired girl is ginny.

HOWEVER, through all of the books don't we ALWAYS get the view through Harry's perception? Dumbledore and Harry seem to be looking down, maybe they are watching the scene from somewhere else, although maybe for once we go to Ron's view. Since I'm writing an HBP fanfic, maybe this scene would go something look this.

This is purely my story, not spoilers or anything lol.

A brilliant green light exploded outside of the Gryffindor common room and everyone rushed to the window. Someone screamed from far away and Ron's eyes widened with shock. It couldn't be here...this was Hogwarts....not here. It didn't matter, they had to leave, if Voldemort was all for the killing of all but Purebloods, Hermione was in danger. Besides, it wouldn't be safe in here if it was. Angelina Johnson, head girl, called over the crowd.

"RON! HERMIONE! I NEED ALL MY PREFECTS TO THE GRYFFINDOR ENTRANCE NOW! EVERYONE PLEASE CALM DOWN AND JUST WAIT FOR ONE MORE MOMENT!" she bellowed.

Ron hurried forward to the entrance with Hermione and waited. Beside him Hermione muttered, Sonorus!.

"EVERYONE! Please prepare to evacuate the school, we will be staying in one group as we go down to the Entrace Hall. Let's go!" she yelled opening the common room door.

Ron's mind was racing as they made their way down the stairs and into the Entrance Hall. The rest of the houses were already there apparently waiting for Gryffindorr. As Ron hurried forward he saw that everyone was too afraid to open the door. He took it upon himelf to race forward and wrench open the door, the minute he did, he regretted it. Hundreds of people...no creatures, stood outside of the door. There weren't just death eaters, there were monsters such as Dementors, VAmpires, and giants.

"SCATTER!" shouted Ron as he dived a killing curse sent to him out of the doorway. Everyone ran screaming and hiding, but Ron realized for the moment that all the spells had stopped. Then he heard a cold voice ring through the air.

"Forget the other students, gather the Weasleys, Mudbloods, and the Longbottom. Tsk tsk, Mr. Weasley, you will prove quite useful to me after all, and if you refuse, I suppose you would like to see the genocide of your fellow students. My mind comprises schemes you could not even fathom, boy. Now come." Lord Voldemort whispered.

Ron, Ginny, Hermione, and Luna all were grabbed by hooded death eaters and led down the steps onto the grounds, for a minute Ron thought they were headed into the forest before Voldemort stopped them.

"Dolohiv, stop here. Fire my mark," he said to a hooded Death Eater. Then he turned to the four, "It is a shame I must draw Potter out of hiding like this, if he were present only one death would have to take place. Now there will be four," he said smirking.

Meanwhile Dolohiv muttered an Incantation and the mark was now hovering brightly and clearly over Hogwarts.

"I presume once Mr. Potter sees this mark, he will come running to save you. Too bad it will be too late."

"That's what you think," snarled Ron. He looked up at the mark, determined not to show fear, but glanced at Hermione, whose eyes seemed to be bulging with fear.

Suddenly, there was a burst of flame behind them and Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore stood distinctly behind them.

"Ah, Mr. Potter," he said pointing his wand at Ron, "I'm sorry but your time is up. I presume you know what happens next."

"RON NO!" he bellowed as he scar exploded in pain.

Hehe, what will happen next....

Creatively Evil

July 8th, 2005, 9:52 pm

EDIT - READ: By the way, guys, something which just occured to me - how big do you imagine the Dark Mark to be? In the picture, it looks both as if it could be just over the group of people, or maybe so big it fills the sky so it is actually over the castle. I can't decide between the two... thoughts, anyone?

The Dark Mark does seem abnormally large. However, I think it could cover the whole castle by this description in GoF.

Page 128, US Version
Then he realized that it was a colossal skull, comprised of what looked like emerald stars, with a serpent protuding from its mouth like a tongue. As they watched, it rose higher and higher blazing in a haze of greenish smoke, etched against the black sky like a new constellation.

Constellations are generally big--right? And since it's so high up, it appears to cover more area.

I think it's a good idea to keep the fanfic in Flourish and Blott's, to stay on topic. :)

Snivellus

July 8th, 2005, 9:54 pm

The Dark Mark does seem abnormally large. However, I think it could cover the whole castle by this description in GoF.

Constellations are generally big--right? And since it's so high up, it appears to cover more area.

I think it's a good idea to keep the fanfic in Flourish and Blott's, to stay on topic. :)

K lol, I was seeing if people would like it for a later chapter >_<.

EDIT: But I think its not a snake, I really do think its a tree and its the are found in the movie, which is the way to Hagrid's house I believe.

HarryPotter

July 8th, 2005, 9:57 pm

IgoRetla

July 8th, 2005, 9:59 pm

There isn't much on the back cover that isn't on the standup...though in it's proper position, of course. I even went to my local bookstore to look more closely.

After looking at the person alone, after originally feeling that the features reflected Cho, I think that the hair looks far redder, so can only be Ginny. Ron, Hermione and Ginny, with perhaps Neville behind them, and other silhouettes that I think are other students. Outside of Hogwarts.

I don't think that it is a group of Prefects, if only because historically the Prefects always stay with the students, either in common rooms or the Great Hall, while the ghosts and staff search for or face the threats.

Wow. One more week.

darksidemoose

July 8th, 2005, 10:00 pm

How high up do you think it goes? I thought maybe 100 feet. Also, maybe 40 feet high, but adjustable in size and height by the caster.

star2be33

July 8th, 2005, 10:51 pm

1. If you figure it all in, (location wise) I think they are standing where the graveyard would be. In a rough sketch JK drew, the Graveyard is near Hagrids, and you can tell Hagrid's hut would be somewhere to the right, middle of the page (near where everyone thinks the snake is). The Dark Mark is too close and too big to be over Hogwarts, so it must be over something very close to where they are standing. The Lake? the Graveyard? Hagrids? The forrest?

Either that or I'm being completely paranoid and it is over Hogwarts . . .

2. The figure on the far right couldn't be Lily! Lily does have red hair, yes, but she is dead! She isn't going to mysteriously come back to life, no matter how much we hope she will.

Evilrabbit

July 8th, 2005, 10:53 pm

This seems to be confirmation that the battle against LV will take place at Hogwarts. A very ominous omen, that. I can't wait!

Or I suppose it could be a false alarm, desinged to frighten people. Either way, dark times are approaching.

LadyMarauder

July 8th, 2005, 10:54 pm

I am so excited now! I am almost positive it has to be Ginny because why else would Neville/Luna be there too. Lily wouldn't fit with that group of people.

GreenIGoddess

July 8th, 2005, 11:00 pm

Well it definatley is Ginny next to Ron and Hermione, unless there is another important red haired character at Hogwarts. I am thinking the other boy is Neville, as he seems to be getting more important.

flutist14_99

July 8th, 2005, 11:12 pm

Snivellus

July 8th, 2005, 11:19 pm

What I am shocked about in this whole discussion is that no ne has specualted why the students, if evacuated were sent outside of the school instead of somewhere safer inside the school. Outside they are all very vunerable to anyone. Inside, they could hide a good bit better. Even with Sirius in POA all students were sent to their common room and then to the big room where they all eat and I can't remember it's name right now. But still, why outside of Hogwarts?

Which is why like in my story, I have a strange feeling that someone brought them out there. And thats why therea re only 4 of them, somehow i think Voldemort will try to get them their to pull Dumbledore/Harry or both of them to one spot. Someone evil that is to say not someone good. Nonetheless, like someone said, Dark times are approaching. Us wizards will soon have to learn the difference between what is right and what is easy. But what if their is a medium in between o_o.

elperuaan

July 8th, 2005, 11:22 pm

What I am shocked about in this whole discussion is that no ne has specualted why the students, if evacuated were sent outside of the school instead of somewhere safer inside the school. Outside they are all very vunerable to anyone. Inside, they could hide a good bit better. Even with Sirius in POA all students were sent to their common room and then to the big room where they all eat and I can't remember it's name right now. But still, why outside of Hogwarts?

Evacuated? Why do you think that? With the record of all the students involved, I wouldn't be surprised if they got where they are without telling anybody. On some wild goose chase perhaps. So I'm not that shocked there's no discussion on evacuation. I mean, come on, there's too little info, and wouldn't there be more people looking up?

daniel2099

July 8th, 2005, 11:29 pm

What I am shocked about in this whole discussion is that no ne has specualted why the students, if evacuated were sent outside of the school instead of somewhere safer inside the school. Outside they are all very vunerable to anyone. Inside, they could hide a good bit better. Even with Sirius in POA all students were sent to their common room and then to the big room where they all eat and I can't remember it's name right now. But still, why outside of Hogwarts?

the room is the great hall
the three we can see clearly ron hermine and ginny the other person i would gess is dean or someone new we have gray shadows that i take to be more
students.
i would gest that were ever they are thay can see the school and the forest
(a sum those are trees from the forest in the back grounds by the school

i think it is possable a hint that one of the four we can see bites it
we are told that a major careter is killed not that only one is killed

darksidemoose

July 8th, 2005, 11:40 pm

I think they are outsode anyway.

Aurelen

July 8th, 2005, 11:47 pm

I wonder if the whole (or most of) school is outside, or if it's just a group of people outside, because you can see shapes of other people behind Ron and Hermione and Ginny(<-supposedly).

If it is just a group it could be the DA :eyebrows: ...

But part of me thinks it is just the whole school because the other people are just "shadows" which kind of shows that they are more insignificant to what is happening. And if it was the DA I would think that you would actually see everyone's faces.

Who knows?

Lila V Brious

July 9th, 2005, 12:40 am

I think it's Luna, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny on the back. I thought it was Luna when I first saw it, but now I'm sure since someone put Luna's chapter pic next to the back of the HBP. My theory, which is what everyone else is thinking, the school gets evacuated. It looks like there's a lot of kids outside of Hogwarts. As for the Dark Mark, I think it was conjured as a calling card. I think Harry and Dumbledore are somewhere else, facing Death Eaters/ Voldemort. I think the Dark Mark was conjured up so high for the whole wizarding world to see, that finally the mighty Dumbledore has fallen.

OddSocks

July 9th, 2005, 12:48 am

Coooool. :D. I think the HBP cover is now my new favorite.

I'd agree there is a large group of students pictured there, but only Ron/Hermione and Ginny are 100% uminstakable. I'm not going to guess at the other yet. The face is too indistinct for me to be sure (though there were some good posts on the a few pages back with pictures - it looks as much like Cho as Luna or Neville to me. I'm guessing it is either N, L or someone new). I think it is meant to be indistinct so we are not sure :P!

I wouldn't put too much stock in the size of the Dark Mark, since this is the cover it needed to be big. It just makes it plainer than ever that we are going to have to come to grips with death.

I like the look on Ron's face :). I'm guessing this will mean that Ron comes into his own a bit more. He looks steeled. On the other hand it looks like Ginny/Hermione are in shock. Difficult times lie ahead . . .

heisman11hope

July 9th, 2005, 12:49 am

I think the Dark Mark was conjured up so high for the whole wizarding world to see, that finally the mighty Dumbledore has fallen.

i hope not :'-(

yankeeraven

July 9th, 2005, 12:51 am

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 1:01 am

I'm not sure if that is Ginny next to Hermione. Her hair color isn't the same as Ron's and all the Weasleys are described as having "Weasley red hair", implying that they all had the exact same hair color. On the back cover of Chamber of Secrets, both Ron and Ginny have the exact same hair color shade, so if that really is Ginny, what changed?Neither Ginny or Ron appear on the back cover art for CoS, as done by Mary GrandPre for the regular US book edition...

LuPiN_RuLeS913

July 9th, 2005, 1:18 am

I'm not sure if that is Ginny next to Hermione. Her hair color isn't the same as Ron's and all the Weasleys are described as having "Weasley red hair", implying that they all had the exact same hair color. On the back cover of Chamber of Secrets, both Ron and Ginny have the exact same hair color shade, so if that really is Ginny, what changed?
Ron and Hermione don't look as they do on other covers either though, now, do they? Besides, I don't see where there's a great difference in the hair color of the girl to Hermione's right and Ron's hair. I think it's just shading because of the girls location. And yes, I do believe it's Ginny.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 1:18 am

Harry hasn't appeared on any of the back cover art of US regular editions...

Isn't he on the back of the POA riding Buckbeak with Hermione?

Iris_Evans

July 9th, 2005, 1:19 am

It's pretty amazing, if you piece together all the clues from the different book covers. Advanced potion-making, dark marks, Ron/Hermione close together, A pensieve-thingy that can only be reached by boat in an underground river...so many clues!
I have to admit though, that seeing "faces" and such in paintings smacks of seeing elephants and the face of Michael Jackson in passing clouds, you know?

I guess we all just get to wait until six and one half days (by the Bloomsbury counter, which I prefer!) from now to find out...

Loony_Lupin

July 9th, 2005, 1:20 am

I have a theory of how the back cover relates to the front cover, this is the first time I have ever come up with a theory:
what if like Dumbledore needs to show Harry something and he calls him to his office, and while he's explaining the whole thing of what he's gonna show him. Voldemort attacks with his death eaters and they start terrorizing the school. As the Pensieve or whatever is in another place, not to far from the school. Harry and Dumbledore have to leave and Dumbledore can only hope that the few order members at the school can handle the situation.

Or maybe the attack won't come till after Dumbledore and Harry leave, imagine the readers reaction when they see errr read that death eaters and Voldemort are terrorizing the school.

LuPiN_RuLeS913

July 9th, 2005, 1:23 am

Isn't he on the back of the POA riding Buckbeak with Hermione?
Nah, that was the front cover.

Starrlight

July 9th, 2005, 1:24 am

Ron is generally a panicky character, Why is he so calm then??

:grumble: it's the movies that make him seem so!

I know--this isn't on topic, yet I couldn't resist...

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 1:30 am

I also want to know how Harry manages the grade to get into Advanced Potion Making...implied by the UK adult cover. Or....who does that old text belong to? Reminds me of some of Ginny's second hand things in CoS, and Harry wouldn't buy second hand...perhaps artistic license?

The cover doesn't imply Harry is in advanced Potion making. It simply implies that Advanced Potions will be involved in the book. It isn't like Harry and Hermione and Ron haven't searched old books before when it didn't involve their classwork. Perhaps the potions relates to the HBP and not Harry at all. Maybe like some have speculated Snape finally gets to teach DADA and a new Potions instructor (maybe the HBP) is introduced? Lots of possibilities exist

Snivellus

July 9th, 2005, 1:46 am

Where is the cover that shows the boat for the HBP?

abtibbet

July 9th, 2005, 1:58 am

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 2:00 am

Where is the cover that shows the boat for the HBP?It's found in post 26 (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=2384162&postcount=26) of this thread...courtesy of werefrog.

bulldog7_23

July 9th, 2005, 2:19 am

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 2:35 am

Wasn't Ginny dating Dean at the end of OotP.

(Off to look for quote.)

"Well, I've chosen Dean Thomas, would you say he's better?" asked Ginny vaguely.
:huh:

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 2:39 am

Wasn't Ginny dating Dean at the end of OotP.

(Off to look for quote.)

"Well, I've chosen Dean Thomas, would you say he's better?" asked Ginny vaguely.
:huh:
No, Ron told her to choose someone better, and she replied "I've chosen Dean Thomas." This doesn't mean they were dating yet.

As for the dark skin...it appears to me that half of the persons face is in shadow, while the left side is not...

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 2:48 am

I believe, as everyone else appears, that Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are three of the characters on the back. However, I have a different possibility for the fourth character. It appears to me that he has dark skin. The only character left at Hogwarts whom we know is dark skinned is Dean.

Also where some people have said that they can see a snake it appears to me that this area looks more like a face. A face that fits the description of Voldermort. Any thoughts?
We mentioned that about 6 pages back. It has to either be Dean or one of the twin sisters who are Indian descent, the Patils. It could possibly be Cho who would be darker also being Chinese,

But I still say the important part is where is Harry? Why is he not with his friends as always? The Three Musketeers are minus one on that back cover.

Where is the cover that shows the boat for the HBP?

The crop of the back cover is here:

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp_writing.jpg

I see writing on the wall behind the boat but others disagree. Looks like maybe Fawkes or Fall??

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 2:57 am

No, Ron told her to choose someone better, and she replied "I've chosen Dean Thomas." This doesn't mean they were dating yet. :huh: In context it sounds like they are dating. She was just repeating Ron's phrase.

As for the dark skin...it appears to me that half of the persons face is in shadow, while the left side is not...
What about Angelina? I know she's graduated.

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 3:03 am

I don't think it's someone with dark skin tones...It looks to me like Luna with one side of her face in shadow and the other in relief.

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 3:04 am

I see writing on the wall behind the boat but others disagree. Looks like maybe Fawkes or Fall??
I see what appears to be carved letters, too. But I can't make any sense out of them, though I'm sure I see the word "aspirin" on the bottom right.

I don't think it's someone with dark skin tones...It looks to me like Luna with one side of her face in shadow and the other in relief.
Was Luna with them on the train at the end of OotP?

(Off to check that, too.)

Aurelen

July 9th, 2005, 3:06 am

Hmmm...that's interesting. You see aspirin? I see Sauron at the top. :huh: I don't think Sauron and aspirin have any major roles in HBP. Maybe next time, though. :p

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 3:10 am

I see what appears to be carved letters, too. But I can't make any sense out of them, though I'm sure I see the word "aspirin" on the bottom right :lol: I see the word "Half" right in the middle...
http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24636

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 3:11 am

Here is a crop of the 4. Person on the left Still looks darker to me

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/4people.jpg

Aurelen

July 9th, 2005, 3:14 am

Either she/he is darker or they are just in shadow.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 3:18 am

:lol: I see the word "Half" right in the middle...
http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24636

You may be right. I was seeing what you have as an "H" as a "f" with the hook to the left instead of the right like old english but I could see it as an H. We both see the a which looks just as I type it "a" and the l

Hmmm...that's interesting. You see aspirin? I see Sauron at the top. :huh: I don't think Sauron and aspirin have any major roles in HBP. Maybe next time, though. :p

The aspirin is from the headache of trying to see all the details and fine print ;)

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 3:21 am

No sign of Luna on the train ride back to London. Hmmmm.....

Ginny1976

July 9th, 2005, 3:23 am

It looks to me like it's Hogwarts in the back ground with Ginny and Dean.

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 3:26 am

Here is a crop of the 4. Person on the left Still looks darker to me
Does the person to the far left have their mouth open as though screaming?

The aspirin is from the headache of trying to see all the details and fine print ;)
:lol: True...

"Ron's" and "Hermione's" expressions are curious rather than terrified as I would expect if they were looking at the Dark Mark. The person on the right, "Ginny," also seems more curious than frightened. But the person on the far left appears to be yelling.

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 3:35 am

When I first saw it I thought it was Ron and Hermione with Neville to the left and Ginny to the right. On the cover it shows Harry and Dumbledore looking into that basin, and on the back there is fog around the four unknowns. Connection? Or is the fog symbolic of something "descending" on Hogwarts or surrounding them in a palpable sort of danger? That's the trouble with it, you can't really know if they're being symbolic with the art or if it's a real part of the book.

Snivellus

July 9th, 2005, 3:42 am

Thanks for the link, man, just about 6 days left soon. Whose going to a barnes and noble book party or something to that effect? When 5 came out i thought it was really geeky, now I'm fiending to go o_o.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 3:55 am

Does the person to the far left have their mouth open as though screaming?

:lol: True...

"Ron's" and "Hermione's" expressions are curious rather than terrified as I would expect if they were looking at the Dark Mark. The person on the right, "Ginny," also seems more curious than frightened. But the person on the far left appears to be yelling.

The mouth of the person to the left is open but not wide enough to be screeming I think. Looks more like they are shocked /astonished or maybe even talking but when I think of screaming I'd picture the mouth wide open.

JStock

July 9th, 2005, 4:08 am

I know everyone else thinks they're at Hogwarts, but I think it looks more like the description of Drumstrang...the warmer fur coats on the students, the smallish-looking castle as opposed to the huge towers of Hogwarts, and the mountains right next to the castle tower.

MoodyHarry

July 9th, 2005, 4:09 am

The mouth of the person to the left is open but not wide enough to be screeming I think. Looks more like they are shocked /astonished or maybe even talking but when I think of screaming I'd picture the mouth wide open.I like the evacuation theory that has been posted.

The looks on their faces are not shock. It looks more like aversion or loathing.
The fear and shock would have come earlier when the dark mark appeared and the school was evacuated. It would almost be like they are evacuating because of the mark, then later glanced up to look at it again.

But here is a minor question - how long does the dark mark linger in the air for?

Lil Red Head

July 9th, 2005, 4:13 am

I'm pretty sure it's Hogwarts - it looks like the castle from the PS2 games. The people look like they're standing in the foggy area in the game too. Someone cast Lumos, would you? :)

At first I assumed that was Harry, but it does look more like Ron on closer look. I wondered why his hair wasn't darker than the girl next to him, so if it's Ron and Hermione, that makes sense. I'm pretty sure the girl on the right is Ginny - long red hair, slightly younger looking than the front two.

I'd say the person behind then is gaping, not screaming or yelling. Just my interpretation. I do wonder if this is a memory of Harry's - could he take one of his 'prediction dreams' and put it into the Pensieve? Or does it have to be an actual happening?

JStock

July 9th, 2005, 4:17 am

But if it is Hogwarts, it would have to be winter...hmmm...my vote is still Drumstrang, but I'd just like to see the kids get out more, I suppose.

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 4:26 am

Lil Red Head

July 9th, 2005, 4:32 am

I think he could see a dream in a pensieve just like Snape saw his dream in Legillimency. The only thing is that Harry's dreams aren't predictions. They show what is happening as it happens.

Good point. And I don't see Harry and DD being somewhere else while a Dark Mark is beaming over Hogwarts, so it's most likely that the front and back pictures aren't directly related. Unless they're reviewing the event, looking for clues (like who set it off, etc.)

I'm wondering when in the world Malfoy learned how to do the dark mark? :p

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 4:56 am

You guys still talk about the birdbath as a pensieve. Two arguments against it.

1. The US Front Covers have always depicted a new subject and not one the readers are familiar with from previous books.
CoS - Harry is holding onto Fawkes and is in the Chamber of Secrets with the sword hanging at his side -- 3 new objects
POA - Harry and Hermione riding Buckbeak to rescue Sirius
GOF Harry behind a Dragon (we just see the Dragon's ridges) with Fleur and the 2 other champions behing him and Snuffles looking on secretly, the back depicts the GOF itself and Thresthals pulling the carriage
OOTP - Harry in the round room at the MoM with candles burning.

None of these scenes could we recognize from prior books. We had to read the books to learn their significance and who/what they were.

So if the birdbath is a pensieve, they have departed from past custom.

2. Look at the 2 birdbaths below. They don't even resemble each other. The UK back cover shows a pedestal that is spindle shaped and on what appears to be bird's feet. The US version looks like a mighty Roman or Greek column (nice cylindrical shape) on top of which is a bowl. The one on the UK backcover is on a round partially domed structure. We haven't a clue what the US birdbath column is attached to because we can't see its base but the standee makes it look very tall.

Now we are either talking about 2 similar but different objects which are located at different places or the artists are way apart in their depiction. Now we know the US artist has read the book. The detail in which the UK artist has displayed the pedestal indicaes they have also read at least a good description of the object they depict. And the 2 are not the same. Also the US artist draws Dumbledores Pensieve on Chapter 28, p. 624 (HB edition) of the OOTP. It isn't the same as on this cover.

So either it (they) are pensieves other than Dumbledores (and thus new to us) or something else such as scrying bowls. Could each side have one? Or could Sirius have one where he now resides and there be one on Harry's side also by which they could communicate? Pensieve? Scrying Bowl? Birdbath?

I don't know but I think there are at least 2 of whatever it is.

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/birdbath.jpg

P K

July 9th, 2005, 5:08 am

My theory of why Dumbledore won't die:

First, look at the front cover. Yes, you've probably scrutinized it countless times before. It shows Harry and Dumbledore over some Pensieve/magical object thing. On the back cover there is Ron/Her-mo-ninny (forgive me, Viktor)/Ginny/someone else looking at the Dark Mark that is likely over Hogwarts. The Death Eaters always put up the Mark AFTER a murder had been made (well, almost always. We can't forget the QWC). Yet Dumbledore is still on the cover while the Dark Mark is being displayed. Therefore, Dumbledore isn't dead as a result of that particular killing.

Of course, there could be more than one murder (crosses fingers for no) that results in dear old Albus' death, but at least it isn't this one. The question is, who is killed. If the building is Hogwarts, it is likely to be one of the teachers, though we can't rule out any of the student's. I think that McGonagall is looking most vulnerable, closely followed by Snape, as both are part of the Order (if the new DADA is from the Order, then him/her as well) We know that Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, and Dumbledore are safe from that particular killing, however.

Just my $.02

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 5:15 am

Thats a good theory, but the cover doesnt exaclty show a specific scene from the book.

P K

July 9th, 2005, 5:24 am

Thats a good theory, but the cover doesnt exaclty show a specific scene from the book.

That's true, I didn't think of that. Hmmm...I must gaze into the Orb and ponder the future.

P.S. We all know that Trelawney is a fake, but does anybody think that Fred and George are Seers? Think about it. They barely ever get in trouble, Fred said he was going w/Angelina to the Yule Ball before asking, and, most importantly, their steep, successful bet at the QWC.

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 5:26 am

I never thought of that. That wold be an interesting twist to the story. I hope it happens.

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:29 am

The LionHeart

July 9th, 2005, 5:30 am

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:31 am

christofer134

July 9th, 2005, 5:32 am

Earlier I heard people talking about how on the back side of the US cover they said they thought the dark mark was over hogwarts...but hogwarts is in the distance it looks to me like the dark mark could be over HArgrid's hut and earlier JK told us that Voldemort put up the dark mark when he killed someone, so could this possibly mean that Voldemort is going to kill Hagrid

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 5:32 am

Do you think you can find a link for that?

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 5:33 am

I just finished going through all the US editions (HB) and looking at Mary Grandpré's artwork.

She has depicted Hogwarts twice -- Book1 on the Title Page and OOTP on page 651

She has depicted Dumbledores Pensieve also twice -- GOF on page 581 and OOTP on page 624

She has depicted Luna twice -- GOF on pages 179 and 397

She has depicted the Burrough once -- GOF on page 51

She has depicted Cho once -- OOTP on page 543

She has depicted Krum twice, once on page 95 of the GOF and once on the cover of GOF

She depicted the Dark Mark on page 692 of GOF

That is just to say, the buildings in the background (US Back cover) do not appear to be Hogwarts

The person on the far left (US Back cover) does not appear to be either Cho or Luna

The object on the HBP jackets does not appear to be Dumbledore's pensieve

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:36 am

P.S. We all know that Trelawney is a fake, but does anybody think that Fred and George are Seers? Think about it. They barely ever get in trouble, Fred said he was going w/Angelina to the Yule Ball before asking, and, most importantly, their steep, successful bet at the QWC.

I had thought about that, too. I was wondering, seeing as nobody even remotely expected it, why they would've bet ALL of their money on that happening. It was a very slim chance from the perspective of someone who didn't yet know the outcome. Do you really think that they are seers? Maybe they just had a hunch, but it does seem a little odd.

Earlier I heard people talking about how on the back side of the US cover they said they thought the dark mark was over hogwarts...but hogwarts is in the distance it looks to me like the dark mark could be over HArgrid's hut and earlier JK told us that Voldemort put up the dark mark when he killed someone, so could this possibly mean that Voldemort is going to kill Hagrid

I have heard that many people think that Hagrid could die. I think it is quite plausible. Hagrid isn't a key part of the book (I mean, in the trio), but it would really hit home for something to happen to him. If LV wanted to harm Harry emotionally, that would be a very good way to do it. The fact that it does look, if that large structure is Hogwarts, to be above Hagrid's hut just reinforces that idea. I have heard many arguments for Hagrid to be the next to go.

P K

July 9th, 2005, 5:36 am

I'm pleased with the discussion that this (F/G Seer theory) is creating! I'll go make a new thread about it. After all, this is the cover art thread.

As for the two different scenes on the covers...well, yes, that's true. My theory does have flaws. Even if it is correct, Dumbledore can still die. *sigh* I sure hope not!

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 5:37 am

Something about the column on the standee makes me think back to the good old days of Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storge. :lol:

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:40 am

That's a great idea, there may be something to this theory. If not that they are seers, than that there has to be something behind this. Perhaps she just added it in there so that Fred and George won and it would give incentive for Bagman to owe them especially... I'm not sure, but I would love to discuss it!

As for the covers... I'm pretty sure that the two scenes don't occur at once. If they did, then it is true, Harry and Dumbledore are safe. Though I think I still agree with the theory that it is (unfortunately) Hagrid's death that is within the sixth book...

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 5:40 am

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:42 am

I haven't heard too many other theories on whose death is contained in the sixth book. I have heard some people think Snape or Dumbledore, but I don't think Jo would kill of either of them seeing as they have played such a great role. However, I certainly wasn't expecting Sirius to die either (RIP Sirius)

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 5:43 am

But the scene in the background isn't Hogwarts Compare the cover picture with the 2 previous drawing my Grandpré. Artists are too precise to alter details that much of the same subject

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 5:44 am

The idea on Fred and George makes a lot of sense. The bet was too precise, one to win but the other to get the snitch and they had too much confidence. Maybe they knew about the scrying bowl ;) depicted on the cover and used it to see the outcome beforehand?

I think that P K is creating a thread for this in Divination Studies if you'd like to go comment on it in that. It's just that I wouldn't want the subject of this thread to change to that when it was so wonderfully delving into what the cover of the sixth book may mean in the world of HP. I'm heading over to that thread as well.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 5:45 am

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 5:45 am

Something about the column on the standee makes me think back to the good old days of Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storge. :lol:

OMG!!! i was thinkin the same thing. That woulkd be so funny.

Dumbledorefan

July 9th, 2005, 5:47 am

I was wondering who the fourth student is on the new pic and where the fourth student is. It says Ron and Hermione and two other Hogwarts students standing beneath the Dark Mark. When looking at the picture, i See Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. But i dont see the 4th student. I'm guessing it's going to be Neville. But i don't even see him.

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 5:50 am

I think it looks like a girl wen i look at it.

Dagmar

July 9th, 2005, 5:53 am

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 5:55 am

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 6:02 am

are yo saying they is it ron, hermione, luna, and cho? or juust that te unkown person on te left could be luna or cho?

RitaSkeeter17

July 9th, 2005, 6:02 am

I don't know where people are getting Cho from. I think the fourth person looks like Luna. The girl doesn't look asian at all. It might be a boy though, and he is the HBP. Has anyone thought the person could be Draco? I see noone thought of him.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:03 am

Standing to the right and a little behind Ron...
http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25499

Nice job kingwidgit. I'll have to learn how to do that *LOL*

Facial structure is wrong for Luna. Cho? Maybe. I still lean toward Dean or Patil but we don't have any Grandpré artwork to compare. You can also see Harry, Ron and Hermione on page 152 in OOTP though (US HB)

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 6:08 am

Nice job kingwidgit. I'll have to learn how to do that *LOL*

Facial structure is wrong for Luna. Cho? Maybe. I still lean toward Dean or Patil but we don't have any Grandpré artwork to compare. You can also see Harry, Ron and Hermione on page 152 in OOTP though (US HB)Thanks, it wasn't too hard...I still haven't figured out my photoshop program...

I really think the unspecified person behind Ron is Luna mainly because of the eyes, but I put the picture of Cho in there just so others could compare...and the pic of Ron/Hermione is the one from OoP pg. 152...I simply reversed it, so it would be easier to compare Ron/Hermione on the back of HBP...

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:09 am

are yo saying they is it ron, hermione, luna, and cho? or juust that te unkown person on te left could be luna or cho?

People have been speculating on the identity of the person on the far left. Suggestions have been Neville, Dean Thomas, One of the Patils, Cho and Luna. Personally I think the person is depicted darker because of their race / nationality. That means Dean, Cho or one of the Patils since they would have darker skin tones. Others think it just means the person is in a shadow.

He has done a nice job of placing Grandpré's previous depictions next to the people so people can compare. There has also been some talk if that is Ron or not. Most I think agree on Hermione and Ginny

Dumbledorefan

July 9th, 2005, 6:10 am

Now i see it. In the smaller pic it doesn't really have a shape, and in the big pic it's still hard to make out. But if it's Dean, then why him? He has nothing to offer to the plot. JK herself said that his story never makes into the books and i would think that if he's being threatend then one of the DE's or Voldemort would rub it in his face that his father was killed. I think it's Neville.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:17 am

Thanks, it wasn't too hard...I still haven't figured out my photoshop program...

I really think the unspecified person behind Ron is Luna mainly because of the eyes, but I put the picture of Cho in there just so others could compare...and the pic of Ron/Hermione is the one from OoP pg. 152...I simply reversed it, so it would be easier to compare Ron/Hermione on the back of HBP...

I was wondering where that image was from. But by reversing, you switched the way his hair parts. That is only indication it may not be Ron, she has his hair going to his left but here it is parting to the right. It does not look like her depiction of crum though.

As for 4th person, I don't think it is Luma. Her hair is never shown that close to her head and even if it is pulled back I think we'd see more than is shown. And the chin is definitely not the same.

RitaSkeeter17

July 9th, 2005, 6:18 am

It can't be Dean. Dean is a black boy who is taller then Ron. That was the way he was described in PS. Maybe, I'm mistaken him for someone else, but I don't think he's white.

tjcoolstar

July 9th, 2005, 6:23 am

Yeah, I think the fourth person is Cho, just like some other people do. I'm just saying, though. My guess could be wrong.

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 6:25 am

It can't be Dean. Dean is a black boy who is taller then Ron. That was the way he was described in PS. Maybe, I'm mistaken him for someone else, but I don't think he's white.Some people believe that the 4th person is darker complected than Ron, Hermione, and Ginny...I think it's because part of the person's features are in shadow, though I don't think any of us are gonna really agree...that's why it's fun to debate!

MadamJaedyn23

July 9th, 2005, 6:27 am

I think the fourth person is Neville, personally. However, I am leaning towards that because I think that Neville plays a part in the book somehow and would be thoroughly inconvenienced if I was very wrong. Ha. It really seems more guyish to me. No, now that I look at it, it doesn't. I figured it was more in shadow due to the fact that it was on the edge of the picture and it was sort of fading out?

However, now I am leaning more towards Luna than Neville just because it looks feminine due to the fact it looks like the hair is pulled back and the features are softer and gentler.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:30 am

It can't be Dean. Dean is a black boy who is taller then Ron. That was the way he was described in PS. Maybe, I'm mistaken him for someone else, but I don't think he's white.

The person in the picture is not a caucasian either at least in my opinion which eliminates both Neville and Luna. The person is depicted as darker than the other 3.

As for height, when was Dean taller? Both Dean and Ron are at an age either may grow several inches over a summer and suddenly the one who was shorter is now taller so if it was an earlier book and thus year???? Plus we have no idea if one is standing at a slightly higher elevation. Cho certainly is a possibility based on the pics. Similar chin and nose and her hair is dark and lays down on her head in the depiction.

Dumbledorefan

July 9th, 2005, 6:33 am

i think it's a male, b/c the person is taller than Hermione and the same heigth as Ron(and Ron is tall). Not that girls can't be tall, but I think if Luna, Cho, or Patils were tall it would have been mentioned since there aren't many tall women. If the person had darker skin then i think we could make out the person better, but since it is really hard then the person has to be standing in shadow. So i'm going with Neville since he's the only guy left that can have a big part to play in Book 6.

JStock

July 9th, 2005, 6:45 am

My two cents on the "mystery person" behind Ron: Initially, I thought it was Neville in the shaddow, but now that I've seen the pictures of Luna & Cho, I'm leaning more towards Cho...look at the nose and chin. The person in the picture has more Asian feactures than Caucasian.

(And it's not Hogwarts in the background...I see that I have one supporter on board!)

silver ink pot

July 9th, 2005, 6:50 am

Standing to the right and a little behind Ron...
http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25499

What a great picture, Kingwidget! Thank you! :)

That makes it alot clearer for me. I think that is definitely Ron and Hermione, with Cho perhaps in the background, though it could be Luna. I don't think it is a boy, however.

HBPhysteria

July 9th, 2005, 6:58 am

I definitely think the person next to Ron is a girl. In my opinion it is Luna, because I'm sensing some large protuberant eyes.
All this has probably been mentioned, but I only read a few more recent posts. The first thing that popped in my head was... Hermione and Ron seem to be standing awefully close. Next I thought, oh hey, there's Ginny. And is that Luna? So I figure it must be the little DoM bunch. Obviously Harry is elsewhere... like the front cover. That leaves Neville. I don't think the mysterious person next to Ron is Neville, because he is supposed to be a round-faced boy, and I see a normal face shape and chin. Also, I don't think it's a boy at all, because of the eyebrows. They are sort of thin like Hermione's rather than thickish like Ron's. As for this figure being darker than the rest... he/she is in background. It's not only darker, but also fuzzier. It's just the effect used to put that character in background. So if that is Luna, and Neville is somewhere else... maybe he has some sort of big role in HBP?
Again, all this is just me looking at the picture and my immediate reactions. Please try to abstain from hanging on to every word and throwing my own quotes back at me in desperate attempts to prove me wrong. If you have anything to add, go right ahead. Just no hostility, please... I'm on summer break, and it has taken me a month and a half of it to reduce my stress level to its normal value. Thanks for your concern for my sanity.
6 days!!!!!!!!
Oh, man, wont that absolutely rock? I'm getting goosbumps from excitement.

Dumbledorefan

July 9th, 2005, 7:00 am

But why would it be Cho? She has nothing to offer to the books anymore. Neville and Luna have more to offer than her or Dean or the Twins. But since they are the same height(Ron and Shadow person) and Luna has never had her height described, then i will go with the shadow person being a male, and Neville is the only one that fits.

sportzfreak_03

July 9th, 2005, 7:06 am

Well I think it is a guy. Maybe the HBP??? Otherwise I have no clue. We will find out in 6 days !!!

HBPhysteria

July 9th, 2005, 7:07 am

I was wondering where that image was from. But by reversing, you switched the way his hair parts. That is only indication it may not be Ron, she has his hair going to his left but here it is parting to the right.
It's definitely Ron.
The back cover depicts Ron and Hermione as well as two other Hogwarts students looking at “the Dark Mark”. Drawn in the same green tones as the front cover, GrandPré has created another incredible piece of art that captures the essence and mystery of the Harry Potter books.
We know for sure it's Ron and Hermione. It's the other people we're worried about.
6 days!!!

Rictu_Sempra

July 9th, 2005, 8:22 am

I think the dark person is Neville. Pretty much because Jo said that he is going to be a little shadowed in the next book. Harry spends the next book wondering "why him and not Neville?" He is the "other" in the dark. Plus, the character looks a little chubby, like Neville.

VIETgrlTerifa

July 9th, 2005, 10:28 am

But why would it be Cho? She has nothing to offer to the books anymore.

Just because you don't feel that Cho would still fit into the books doesn't mean that JK feels the same way.

Nicole

July 9th, 2005, 2:14 pm

I'm inclined to think the other figure near Ron is Dean Thomas. The skin tone is a bit darker, the hair is short...Dean is a dorm-mate, a member of the DA and dating Ginny. More likely to be 'hanging out' near Ron and Hermione than Cho...

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 3:04 pm

one thing about it, with 6 days left we will have hashed out every pixel of the covers and someone will surely be right at least to some of it

Menzothabest

July 9th, 2005, 3:29 pm

This is what I think will happen, according to the American and English Covers:

Hogwarts will be attacked from the inside, by going through that 'way behind the mirror on the fourth floor'. Hogwarts will be evacuated by McGonagall, but Snape, Dumbledore, Hagrid and Harry will remain inside to help the people who can't get out of Hogwarts. Snape searches the dungeons while Hagrid searches the remaining floors. But then Harry and Dumbledore hear a loud laugh, and see Voldemort standing right before them with Lucius Malfoy and Bellatrix Lestrange on his left and right side, and Wormtail behind him kissing his cloak. Dumbledore tries to get Harry to run away, but Harry wouldn't let Dumbledore alone with Voldemort and his Death Eaters. Then Snape comes in and Voldemort askes him if he did his job. Snape (a Legimens) will of course say yes, but then Wormtail suddenly remembers the scene in the Shrieking Shack (or something like that, im dutch ;p) and calls Snape a traitor. Dumbledore will step in and help Snape out, but Voldemort of course doesn't listen to what the old man says and tries to say the third and worst unforgivable curse. But then a loud *BANG* echoes through the Great Hall and Lupin together with Tonks and Shacklebolt burst through the 'Great Doors of the Great Hall ;p. Voldemort becomes very angry at Wormtail when Lupin tells them how he came in (Shrieking Shrack). Voldemort tells Bellatrix, Wormtail and Malfoy to attack Lupin, Tonks and Shacklebolt, while Voldemort goes behind Dumbledore, Harry and Snape. Dumbledore and Voldemort get in a really big fight, while Snape sneaks around Voldemorts back. Dumbledore is able to paralyze Voldemort, but not for long. Suddenly Dumbledore screams: RUN! and he, Snape and Harry run upstairs to the fourth floor. He tells Harry to go through the hallway behind the mirror but Harry really doesn't want to. Then Voldemort comes in but suddenly Hagrid comes through the mirror-hallway. Voldemort becomes very angry, points his wand at Dumbledore, and screams 'AVADA KEDAVRA'. Dumbledore ducks, but its already too late.. Hagrid sacrificed himself to help Dumbledore staying alive and everybody except for Voldemort is shocked. Suddenly Harry knows, he must run to save Hogwarts. With tears in his eyes he runs through the hallway. While running he hears 'Morsmordre', and fully understands what sacrifice means. Meanwhile, the whole school is standing outside Hogwarst, and McGonagall screams and points at the air. Ron, Hermione and the DA are shocked and all think Harry is gone, but then Harry comes out of the hallway, through the forest to the others. He can't really talk very well, but is able to say: Hagger. Then a triumphant scream is heart outside and they all turn around to see Lupin paralysing Bellatrix. Suddenly Wormtail steps in from behind and sticks his hand right through Lupins middle. Lupin begins to crawl and everywhere on him begins to turn up hair. After a while, the werewolf Lupin stops with crawling and falls. Dead. Harry gets very, very angry and runs towards the Hogwarts castle after Wormtail. But then Harry sees a really weird scene: Dumbledore and Snape standing above while Voldemort stands in the middle of the Great Hall with big scary eyes. Dumbledore screams to Harry to run, but Harry won't listen. Dumbledore runs to Harry, grabs his wand and uses a spell which causes a big fire to surround Harry and Dumbledore. DD tells Harry that soon they wont be able to keep the spell intact and they'll have to fight their way outside. DD releases his wand and sees Voldemort and Wormtail standing in the Hall. Voldemort screams triumphantly (their happens a lot between the last words and this) and after a big fight he screams: Avada Kedavra! Harry screams no but his voice stucks as he sees a big rat standing before Dumbledore which absorbs the spell and falls on the ground. Wormtail repayed his debt.

Blablabla, I dont have time to tell the rest of the story ;p Voldemort flights when Dumbledore almost wins, and Harry cries about Lupin and Hagrid, and there are many many more consequenses.

Aliesha

July 9th, 2005, 3:43 pm

Besides the UK adult cover, 3 covers (including the special US edition one) show Harry and Dumbledore together, one with Dumbledore casting rings of fire around he and Harry, another with Dumbledore showing Harry something in a basin and the other Harry and Dumbledore walking through a forrest. The UK back cover art shows the basin Harry and Dumbledore were looking into on a platform sourounded by water, a boat is moored near by, the US back cover shows the Dark mark cast over Hogwarts with Ron, Hermione, Ginny and other people who we can't not see looking up at it.

What if the front covers of the book are showing Harry and Dumbledore excuting a plan to get rid of Voldemort, who has seiged Hogwarts. Going into the forrest to get Gawp or Aragog, remember in the first book how the first years sailed underneath the school, mabye that where the mysterious basin is, the boat in the background matches the description of the boats that bought the first years to Hogwarts. What if some students including Hermione, Ron and Ginny escaped the castle before it came under seige and are now hiding from Voldemort and the Death Eaters or helping Dumbledore and Harry with their plan.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 3:58 pm

Why does everyone suddenly think Hogwarts is under siege? That is highly unlikely. Magical transport into Hogwarts is not possible so attacking it would be stupid if not suicidal.

The birdbath object some are calling a pensieve (and probably isn't) as I previously mention are not the same on the 2 covers but different and apparently at different locations.

The scene behind the 4 students on the back of the US edition does not appear to be Hogwarts as has also been discussed. The same artist has twice drawn Hogwarts and neither look like the structure on the backcover

tracyportus

July 9th, 2005, 3:59 pm

Has anybody noticed that on the US Cover Harry is holding his wand in his left hand?

I guess maybe it's because if harry hold his wand in his right hand ,it will make a difficulty for him to see the things below.I'm not sure.

Tzigone

July 9th, 2005, 4:01 pm

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 4:23 pm

In one of the earlier books Hogwarts was described as "the only safe place" or "the safest place" or something like that - which majorly screams that it's likely to be attacked to me.

I'd say either at the end of the sixth book (hope not) or during the seventh.

I think I am missing your trail of logic. In OOTP we learn that Voldemort is trying to build his base again after having it decimated. I think it is Sirius explaining to Harry What the OOTP is and what they are trying to de when he mentions that Voldemort with a dozen Death-Eaters is not strong enough and that is why Voldemort is staying in hiding so to speak. We have no indication in OOTP that Voldemort has built his army to the strength he desires. I think we will see the recruiting battle continue in HBP and the battles begin.

BUT what is the logic in attacking your opponents stronghold? Is not it better to attack the flanks and the weaker areas to demoralize your opponent and strenghten your own followers? Attack your opponent at his strength and fail and you have lost all you have sought to gain as to followers. Attacking Hogwarts to me would be an act of desperation, an act of last resort.

By all indications, the first time when Voldemort was strong and had many adherents, he did not attack areas of strength but attacked when he had the opposition both outnumbered and isolated.

Snivellus

July 9th, 2005, 4:29 pm

JK did say that this time the Wizarding world was REALLY at war. I'm thinking all out war, especially now that Voldemort has the dementors, and probably the giants too.

Stubefy

July 9th, 2005, 5:22 pm

Timnew, I am not sure about your speculation that magical transportation is impossible in and out of Hogwarts. We know obviously that you cannot apparate or disapparate out of Hogwarts, as Hermione has dutifully informed us in almost every book (and is mentioned so much it is bound to become very important in the next two books), but at the same time, we have see nplenty of magical transportation of other kinds, such as the ship in the lake, Dobby's form of apparation, Fawkes, Portkeys, not to mention the fact that you could probably apparate to Hogsmeade.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 5:53 pm

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/collage/smaller.jpg

I thought it might be good to examine what we know about the covers we have seen. The facts if you will as opposed to our educated and sometimes uneducated guesses.

What we know:

1. Dumbledore and Harry appear together on 3 covers of the 4. Each depicts them in a different scene.

2. The birdbath like object is depicted on 2 of the covers. The depictions are different on the 2 covers.

3. There is an Advanced Potions Book by Borage on the cover of the UK Adult edition and it appears to be quite old.

4. There is a boat on a pool of clear water on the back of the UK Children's edition

5. Ron, Hermione, Ginny and at least one other person is outside looking up at something on the back of the US Standard edition.

6. There is a dark mark in the sky on the back of the US edition

7. There is a structure depicted on the back of that same US edition.

8. Harry and Dumbledore are walking through a forest on the front of the US Deluxe edition and neither has their wands visible.

9. Harry and Dumbledore are looking into one of the Birdbath like structures on the cover of the US Standard edition and Harry has his wand in his left hand while Dumbledore has his hand stretched out over the basin.

10. Harry and Dumbledore are inside a "whirlwind" of fire on the front cover of the UK Childrens edition. Both have their wands out and it appears the fire may emanate from Dumbledore's wand.

11. 2 Hands are clasped together on the front cover edges of the Uk Children's edition and appear to be entwined with either a rope or fire.

Did I miss anything?

Links to the covers:

The US Standard Front and back side by side (http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/US/standard.jpg )

The UK Childrens complete cover (http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/UK/children.jpg )

The US Deluxe and UK Adult front covers side by side (http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/fronts/mixed.jpg )

A Larger version of the Above collage (http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/collage/large.jpg )

Timnew, I am not sure about your speculation that magical transportation is impossible in and out of Hogwarts. We know obviously that you cannot apparate or disapparate out of Hogwarts, as Hermione has dutifully informed us in almost every book (and is mentioned so much it is bound to become very important in the next two books), but at the same time, we have see nplenty of magical transportation of other kinds, such as the ship in the lake, Dobby's form of apparation, Fawkes, Portkeys, not to mention the fact that you could probably apparate to Hogsmeade.

The only magical appearances into or out of Hogwarts itself of which I am aware is the car flown by Harry and Ron in POA. And the car stalled when it got over Hogwarts.

Dobby can apparate within Hogwarts and JK has explained that is because it is necessary for them to perform their jobs that they are excepted.

Dumbledore left his office via Fawkes. We do not know he left Hogwarts itself. But like the Portkey, it was authorized by the Headmaster. Give one example other than Harry and Ron with the flying car of someone accessing Hogwarts via magical transportation not authorized by the Headmaster Dumbledore.

I stand by my thesis. No unauthorised person (and Voldemort and his followers would fall into that category) can magically transport into or out of Hogwarts. Any exceptions would have to be allowed by Dumbledore such as the limited examples cited by you.

demiguiseguy

July 9th, 2005, 6:20 pm

This is just speculation, but the maybe the author of the potions book on the British Cover will be the new potions teacher and Snape will finally get the job he seeks. Maybe we have another Gilderoy Lockhart type teacher on our hands. This is definitely just speculation, but it could be possible.

PtiteLex

July 9th, 2005, 6:32 pm

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:34 pm

demiguiseguy

July 9th, 2005, 6:35 pm

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 6:36 pm

demiguiseguy

July 9th, 2005, 6:38 pm

I know this is not a very popular speculation because I've been looking in plenty of threads and forums, but nobody seems to think (like me) that the blurred person behind Ron looks very much like an asian girl (Cho maybe?) I don't know the skin looks kind of yellowish and the shape of the face seems asian as well. Anyways, just a thought...
Great idea, but Asians have a paler complexion often. If you look at the bigger image it looks brownish.

But lets just say this person was Asian and by chance the name Cho Chang. Maybe Cho Chang was the one who conjured the Dark Mark. My reasoning for this is that on JKR's website a butterfly crosses the screen changing colors from blue to green. According to Mugglenet Cho Chang - Cho is Japanese for "butterfly" and Chang is Chinese for "free" or "unhindered". Although Cho is chinese this wouldn't stop her family from using a japanese name. So maybe this means Cho-the butterfly- will change-free, unhindered- houses from Ravenclaw-Blue- to Slytherin-Green. Anything is possible right?

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 6:51 pm

Great idea, but Asians have a paler complexion often. If you look at the bigger image it looks brownish.

But lets just say this person was Asian and by chance the name Cho Chang. Maybe Cho Chang was the one who conjured the Dark Mark. My reasoning for this is that on JKR's website a butterfly crosses the screen changing colors from blue to green. According to Mugglenet Although Cho is chinese this wouldn't stop her family from using a japanese name. So maybe this means Cho-the butterfly- will change-free, unhindered- houses from Ravenclaw-Blue- to Slytherin-Green. Anything is possible right?

That is an interesting theory. I would never have put that togeather.

If Cho had conjured the dark mark why would she be standing with the others though? Wouldn't she be directly under the mark or hiding somewhere?

HBprincesscaz

July 9th, 2005, 6:56 pm

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 7:02 pm

timnew~

You missed two things. The other person standing with Ron, Hermione, and Ginny appears to have a much darker complexion- possibly African. Also a castle-Probaly Hogwarts-can be seen in the distance of the Dark Mark.

There is disagreement on the 4th person. Some agree with you and me that the person has darker skin tone. Others think it is just a caucasian in the shadows and argue for Neville or Luna. So it isn't a "fact" The fact is there is a 4th person so that is what I listed

I mention there are structures in the background. It is not a "fact" that the structure is Hogwarts or even a castle. I for one do not believe it is Hogwarts. The same artist has twice depicted Hogwarts before and in neither case is there a circular turret like the one shown on the back cover. So Hogwarts or Hogsmeade or any other identity for the structures is just our speculation. So the fact listed is there is a structure in the background so that made the list.

demiguiseguy

July 9th, 2005, 7:03 pm

What a great picture, Kingwidget! Thank you! :)

That makes it alot clearer for me. I think that is definitely Ron and Hermione, with Cho perhaps in the background, though it could be Luna. I don't think it is a boy, however.

I agree. It is not a boy because the hair is pulled back the same way a pony tail is. I don't recall any of the boys at Hgwarts to have enough hair to pull into a pony tail and if they did that would be a semi girly thing to do.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 7:11 pm

Great idea, but Asians have a paler complexion often. If you look at the bigger image it looks brownish.

But lets just say this person was Asian and by chance the name Cho Chang. Maybe Cho Chang was the one who conjured the Dark Mark. My reasoning for this is that on JKR's website a butterfly crosses the screen changing colors from blue to green. According to Mugglenet Although Cho is chinese this wouldn't stop her family from using a japanese name. So maybe this means Cho-the butterfly- will change-free, unhindered- houses from Ravenclaw-Blue- to Slytherin-Green. Anything is possible right?

That assumes that all slytherians will be in Voldemort's camp. But the truth is Slytherin prefers pure-bloods. That doesn't mean all pure-bloods hate non-pure-bloods. We have seen very few of the Slytherins in the books. That may indicate JK is just focusing on the ones that hate pure-bloods. I have wondered if it is so. Remember the sorting hat talked about the need for all the houses to unite and not become divided. It will be interesting to see.

And it is an interesting connection between the name and JK's website

EJS

July 9th, 2005, 7:42 pm

When I first saw the picture I thought the fourth person was Neville and I still do. For one it just looks there is a shadow across him, plus he is standing behind Ron, hermione, and Ginny which he usually does.

I don't know if anyone else noticed (I did not read all the posts) but to me its looks like there could be more people in the background. If you look behind Ginny there are some shadows that look like they could be people's heads.

WarriorEowyn

July 9th, 2005, 7:43 pm

Okay, here's my summary of what I think we know from the cover art:
1.) There will be a Death Eater attack , most likely at Hogwarts but possibly at Hogsmeade. Ron, Hermione, and Ginny will be in it.
2.) It is very likely that Harry will receive some kind of lessons from Dumbledore, since we see them toegther on three covers.
3.) Potions will be important; presumably, Harry will get into Advanced Potions somehow, or else be taught potions privately (potions book on adult cover).
4.)Ginny is likely to have a larger role, as she is pictured on the back cover - the first time since CoS.
5.) The Pensieve-thing or whatever it is is clearly important, as it is shown on both the American and British covers.

Also, the "mystery student" seems to have short hair, and I'm pretty certain it's a boy. I'm guessing Neville, as that's the most logical - he's becoming more important.

JStock

July 9th, 2005, 8:00 pm

Fury

July 9th, 2005, 8:01 pm

Is one of the people on the back cover Ginny? It looked like there was a red-head.

1.) There will be a Death Eater attack , most likely at Hogwarts but possibly at Hogsmeade. Ron, Hermione, and Ginny will be in it.
2.) It is very likely that Harry will receive some kind of lessons from Dumbledore, since we see them toegther on three covers.
3.) Potions will be important; presumably, Harry will get into Advanced Potions somehow, or else be taught potions privately (potions book on adult cover).
4.)Ginny is likely to have a larger role, as she is pictured on the back cover - the first time since CoS.
5.) The Pensieve-thing or whatever it is is clearly important, as it is shown on both the American and British covers.

Hmm, should have looked at this before I asked my question... I guess that is Ginny then. I agree... she will probably be pretty important to HBP's plot.

I do believe Harry will somehow get into Advanced Potions. Or McGonagall might teach him... she did say she would help him.

I also think the Pensieve will be very important to the plot. Maybe some memory of the HBP?

hermyrox2

July 9th, 2005, 8:04 pm

Harry and Dumbledore are walking through a forest on the front of the US Deluxe edition and neither has their wands visible

I have a theory that I am a little hesitant to share, because I dont know if I am right or not.

Here goes: I think that the centaurs will play a pretty important role. The fact that they read the future (figuratively speaking) in the stars is important. Dumbledore needs them to cooperate. They dont like magic. So what if Dumbledore and Harry go into the forest to ask for their help or for them to join Dumbledore's side?

We also need the centaurs cooperation for Grawp's sake. Dumbledore needs to get the centaurs to accept that not all wizards are bad and that Grawp isn't there to cause trouble. I have more to say, but I'll say it later.

Try to prove this wrong. I like to see how many points I missed when forming this theory. Maybe I can prove those points wrong?

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 8:14 pm

I have a theory that I am a little hesitant to share, because I dont know if I am right or not.

Here goes: I think that the centaurs will play a pretty important role. The fact that they read the future (figuratively speaking) in the stars is important. Dumbledore needs them to cooperate. They dont like magic. So what if Dumbledore and Harry go into the forest to ask for their help or for them to join Dumbledore's side?

We also need the centaurs cooperation for Grawp's sake. Dumbledore needs to get the centaurs to accept that not all wizards are bad and that Grawp isn't there to cause trouble. I have more to say, but I'll say it later.

Try to prove this wrong. I like to see how many points I missed when forming this theory. Maybe I can prove those points wrong?

The centaurs won't join either side. They will remain imparshall (SP?). The centaurs consider themselves superior to humans and do not wish to either help nor serve them. They nearly killed Firenze just for helping Dumbledore. They won't help wizards and Dumbledore knows this.

whizbang121

July 9th, 2005, 8:23 pm

I have a theory that I am a little hesitant to share, because I dont know if I am right or not.

Here goes: I think that the centaurs will play a pretty important role. The fact that they read the future (figuratively speaking) in the stars is important. Dumbledore needs them to cooperate. They dont like magic. So what if Dumbledore and Harry go into the forest to ask for their help or for them to join Dumbledore's side?

We also need the centaurs cooperation for Grawp's sake. Dumbledore needs to get the centaurs to accept that not all wizards are bad and that Grawp isn't there to cause trouble. I have more to say, but I'll say it later.

Try to prove this wrong. I like to see how many points I missed when forming this theory. Maybe I can prove those points wrong?
The centaurs are definitely interesting. I'm not sure this is the right thread to discuss your idea, but it's a good thought, especially as Firenze tells Harry that their meeting was foretold.

"Er - hi," said Harry, shaking hands with the centaur, who surveyed him unblinkingly through those astonishingly blue eyes but did not smile. "Er - good to see you."

"And you," said the centaur, inclining his white-blond head. "It was foretold that we would meet again."

Sounds like another prophesy of some kind floating around. :eyebrows:

I'll search for a more appropriate thread to discuss this.

dataki

July 9th, 2005, 8:46 pm

has anybody seen this picture?

http://www.omdm.magic-host.org/news/data/cover_HalfBloodPrince.jpeg

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 8:50 pm

has anybody seen this picture?

http://www.omdm.magic-host.org/news/data/cover_HalfBloodPrince.jpeg
I certainly haven't seen that pic before, thanks, dataki!
Wow, now what can be discerned from that?

Unicorns? Sirius's mirror? Dobby--and he has a wand? And a shield with D.A. on it, on Harry's sweater?

Totally cool...where does this cover art come from?

dataki

July 9th, 2005, 8:53 pm

I found it on google so i wouldn't trust the source too much. But I had to post it in case it actually might mean something!

Briar Filth

July 9th, 2005, 8:53 pm

Is that actually real? Are you sure it's not something made by a fan? It can't be a foreign cover, the title is still in English.

Interesting though! Though I think it's a fake, because remember in GoF and they have a Care of Magical Creatures Lesson on unicorns? Unicorns do not let males touch them, so I can't see how Harry would actually manage to ride one.

dataki

July 9th, 2005, 8:55 pm

Thats a good point Briar! Some girl wrote her own version of Half-Blood prince, maybe thats her cover...

The website that it's on is in a different language though... hermmmm

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 8:56 pm

timnew, I like the argument you made about no one is able to enter Hogwarts using magic without the headmaster's permissioin. However, Hogsmeade is walking distance away, and Voldemort and the Death Eaters could just as easily meet there and then stroll onto Hogwart's grounds.

But I still stand firmly in the "that castle is not Hogwarts" camp. Therefore, I think that all arguments for and against how LV could storm Hogwarts are inconsequential for this book.

Now, book 7 is a different story. I agree that Hagrid saying Gringotts is the safest place except Hogwarts indicates that LV will try to take over the school. He'll be gaining power in book 6, and I agree with someone (forgot who) that said he wouldn't wage war on Hogwarts untill he had a big enough army to win. That is going to be LV's goal for this book, I believe, is gaining strength, gathering followers, and causing mayhem for the ministry, for the Order, and for DD.

Thanks. My argument wasn't that Voldemort would never attempt an attack on Hogwarts. There was a post that indicated the attack would happen and include magical transportation into Hogwarts. First I think it is too early for an attack on Hogwarts. That was me you were agreeing with there. And I don't think that is Hogwarts in the background. The same artist simply would not depict it with an open round turret on the cover when none are shown in the earlier depictions.

As to the Centaurs, I agree they dislike Humans in general but I don't think they are in the "Forbidden Forest" by accident. They are part of the protection afforded Hogwarts just as the Merpeople and the Squid help protect it from their residence in the Lake. If war occurs in the wizarding world, and we know it is, then when forced to chose sides they will align against Voldemort. Not because they like Humans but because it is the lesser of 2 evils and they understand the importance of choices made.

Potions: There are several possibilities on why potions is on the front of the UK adult book. One is that Harry will be studying Advanced Potions. I think that is possible since he expressed a desire in OOTP to pursue being an Auror.

Another possibility is that there will be a new Professor of Potions rather than DADA and Snape will finally get his coveted chance to teach DADA.

Another is that the HBP relates to Advanced Potions and possibly Alchemy. See Paracelsus (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=57415)

Another is that Harry and his friends discover that a Old Advanced Potion is responsible for Voldemort's longevity and they seek to understand it or find a potion to counter it. Remember the Potion Book shown is very old which would support the later 2 arguments over the firsts. If Harry is taking the class or it is a new teacher, there is no reason for the book to be so ancient.

I probably missed some of the possibilities

dataki

July 9th, 2005, 9:00 pm

okay, I found the page and translated. It's a brazillian site and that was a fans picture... Darn, it would've been so good too...

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 9:03 pm

It is fan art. The headline on the main site says "Fan art do 6° livro." I would translate the story but I'm not sure what language it is.

Edit: Looks like you beat me to it dataki.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 9:08 pm

i think it means one of the weasleys dies. i just posted a long thing on this in the wrong thread, which is entitled 'comments on the half-blood prince promotional stand' or something like that. but basically arthur says in GoF that V conjures the dark mark when he kills, and the fact that its ron, hermione and (ginny?) implies its a weasley who's died. lots of clever foreshadowing for that too.
also the green light...avada kedavra?

Not necessarily. Ron and Hermione are often together and Ginny will finally be old enough to visit Hogsmeade, and it would be natural for her to be with her brother Ron and Hermione and possibly Dean if that is the 4th person while going there. Again I think it is more likely Hogsmeade we see in the background than any other proposed location. The real question is why Harry is not going with them.

And I don't see how it would imply a Weasley died. The only 2 Weasley's left at Hogwarts are in the picture. That isn't a picture of the Burrough in the background. It simply implies that deaths will occur in the book and the 4 will witness the sign of the dark mark in the air.

okay, I found the page and translated. It's a brazillian site and that was a fans picture... Darn, it would've been so good too...

Ok I found the page. It says that the Title "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" does not translate well into Portuguese and is causing a lot of confusion because of the translations meaning which I won't state here publicly since this is a family friendly site and some might be offended (but I doubt it, it isn't that bad). :lol:

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 9:14 pm

I translated the text from the site using babelfish and it came out to,

The drawing top was created by DChow of the site Godrics-Hollow, that is a FanArt, that would give a good layer of the sixth book of the series, that still this being written for J.K. Rowling, and that here in Brazil still it is causing much confusion with its name, that translating into our language can be: *******, morganatic mestizo or. We can perceive that Harry is mounted in a unicórnio, using the uniform of the AFTER CHRIST (armed dumbledore), using the mirror that earned of Sirius, together with Dobby and to the deep one of the right side it is Hogwarts.

jo schmo

July 9th, 2005, 9:18 pm

Not necessarily. Ron and Hermione are often together and Ginny will finally be old enough to visit Hogsmeade, and it would be natural for her to be with her brother Ron and Hermione and possibly Dean if that is the 4th person while going there.

isn't ginny going to be a fifth year? she has been able to go to hogsmeade since third year. she was at the Hog's Head with Michael Corner in OotP when they were organizing the DA

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 9:22 pm

I translated the text from the site using babelfish and it came out to,

Babelfish did a decent job. I presume you xxxx the language as like me you didn't want to offend. I think it is funny. Ford made a similar mistake with the marketing of its Ford Pinto which has a very different meaning in Portuguese :rotfl: No surprise the car wasn't selling well until after a name change.

It translated the A.D. as if it was the Abbreviation A.D. used for dates. It of course refers to Albus Dumbledore instead.

isn't ginny going to be a fifth year? she has been able to go to hogsmeade since third year. she was at the Hog's Head with Michael Corner in OotP when they were organizing the DA

Yep, my mistake but the point is the same. If they are going to Hogsmeade it isn't a surprise to see the 4 together. What is a surprise is Harry's absence.

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 9:24 pm

Yep, my mistake but the point is the same. If they are going to Hogsmeade it isn't a surprise to see the 4 together. What is a surprise is Harry's absence.Actually, that's not a big surprise...if the Dursleys don't sign Harry's permission form--now that Sirius is gone--then Harry would have to sneak out to Hogsmeade...

peddlerofdeath

July 9th, 2005, 9:28 pm

Babelfish did a decent job. I presume you xxxx the language as like me you didn't want to offend. I think it is funny. Ford made a similar mistake with the marketing of its Ford Pinto which has a very different meaning in Portuguese :rotfl: No surprise the car wasn't selling well until after a name change.

It translated the A.D. as if it was the Abbreviation A.D. used for dates. It of course refers to Albus Dumbledore instead.

Yep, my mistake but the point is the same. If they are going to Hogsmeade it isn't a surprise to see the 4 together. What is a surprise is Harry's absence.

Yeah, I have heard about that Ford thing before. Funny stuff. :rotfl:

As for you finding Harry's abscence peculiar, I think it is just a little artistic license. I don't find this strange because Harry usually isn't depicted on the back of the books. He is usually on the front and then other charecters are on the back of the cover.

VIETgrlTerifa

July 9th, 2005, 9:32 pm

Actually, that's not a big surprise...if the Dursleys don't sign Harry's permission form--now that Sirius is gone--then Harry would have to sneak out to Hogsmeade...

I doubt that this would be an issue at all. It seems that the permission slip only needs to be signed once.

Anyway, I'm sure Harry is somewhere in that scene since everything that goes on in the books are seen through Harry's POV. So unless JK Rowling deviates from the Harry Potter formula, I'm sure Harry is present.

StephyJ_83

July 9th, 2005, 9:41 pm

Anyway, I'm sure Harry is somewhere in that scene since everything that goes on in the books are seen through Harry's POV. So unless JK Rowling deviates from the Harry Potter formula, I'm sure Harry is present.

This is true, or maybe Harry is observing the scene from a distance . . . maybe the same way Dumbledore watches Harry closer than even Harry knows . . .?

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 9:41 pm

Actually, that's not a big surprise...if the Dursleys don't sign Harry's permission form--now that Sirius is gone--then Harry would have to sneak out to Hogsmeade...

Reread the end of OOTP and tell me if you still have that view. After Moody's chat with Uncle Vernon I think Uncle Vernon would sign anything Harry requests even if he has to draw his own blood for the ink :rotfl:

Casparian

July 9th, 2005, 9:49 pm

A lot of possibilities:

1. The Pensieve

-Of Godric Gryffindor (the Gold one)
-Of Salazar Slytherin (American cover, green, maybe in the Chamber)
-Of Lord Voldemort (green, snake associated, Slytherin associated; also, the diary was one instance of memories that one could enter. JK has said that she was going to have the HBP in CoS, but it didn't fit, though CoS has important indicators as to the end of the series

2. The Castle
-Hogwarts (V attacks, as has been long anticipated. In the movie CoS, it looked like they came flying out either in or near the Forest, and on one of the other covers, Harry and Dumbledore are in a forest)
-Durmstrang (Dumbledore offered refuge to anyone who might need it in GoF. Krum as HBP would make a certain amount of sense. Foreign, offers possibility of being royal. Also, Karkaroff was too obsequious to him if he was just a sports hero. Durmstrang offers V an opportunity of a new set of Dark Wizards every year and an absolutely secure base. No one else knows where it is. Also, he was going to hunt down Karkaroff. Let's assume that the safest place Karkaroff knows is Durmstrang.)
-Royal Castle (V attacks HBP, some connection to British nobility?? Sheer speculataion, but still...)

3. Dumbledore and fire on cover
-Calling the Order of the Phoenix (American cover has sign of Deatheaters, maybe other cover has sign of order?)
-Dumbledore "rebirthing" (see my other speculations on Dumbledore as Merlin)
-Dumbledore making Harry a member of the Order (fire binding them to the Order would make sense, the armwrestling of the young and old part of the initiation?)
-Dumbledore working magic so powerful his wand core was manifesting itself in the spell (I don't know what his wand core is, this one's sheer speculation)

4. Potions book
-Harry scored high enough on his potions exam to make it into advanced potions (poor boy)
-Snape plays special role
-Snape really is part vampire, and the book contains the potion to enable him to live almost normally (like Lupin's potion. Hermione or someone comes across it in the course of whatever and figures things out.)

5. Woods
- Harry and Dumbledore return to the site of Voldemort's resurrection (no idea why)
- Harry and Dumbledore are going to the Riddle House because that's Voldemort's new headquarters (Harry can find it, even though it's hidden like the Black house, because of his tie to Voldemort)

crazy_megan

July 9th, 2005, 9:52 pm

Tzigone

July 9th, 2005, 9:54 pm

I think I am missing your trail of logic.

I'm not talking about logic. I'm talking about how things work in books or movies. When there is one place that is "safe" for the hero, that place is often desecrated/destroyed. This puts the hero off-balance or without grounding.

I think it's going to come to a point in the books where nowhere is safe, not even Hogwarts - the place everyone always thought would be a safe haven.

Alternatively, it could become a base of operations for the good side. But I just can't see it remaining untouched by violence. (actually, we've already had murderers and Voldie-possessed people there, but I expect something more damaging soon)

daniel2099

July 9th, 2005, 9:55 pm

no one but dd know his permision form was signed by black dd may over look it

as has been noted some pages back

Harry is all ways on the front cover not on the back so his not being there
doesnt mean that when(if) that sean happens in the book harry could be there

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 9:55 pm

So does everyone agree that those buildings in the background are howgarts or hogsmeade?

Tzigone

July 9th, 2005, 9:57 pm

Great idea, but Asians have a paler complexion often. If you look at the bigger image it looks brownish.

But lets just say this person was Asian and by chance the name Cho Chang. Maybe Cho Chang was the one who conjured the Dark Mark. My reasoning for this is that on JKR's website a butterfly crosses the screen changing colors from blue to green. According to Mugglenet Although Cho is chinese this wouldn't stop her family from using a japanese name. So maybe this means Cho-the butterfly- will change-free, unhindered- houses from Ravenclaw-Blue- to Slytherin-Green. Anything is possible right?

I can't agree with this. It's an interesting idea, though.

But I believe the blue butterfly turns green because at nighttime it is a moth instead of a butterfly (at least, that's what others have said)

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 10:00 pm

I have noticed this too, but I didnt think anything of it.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 10:28 pm

I'm just going to jump into the whole 'will Harry be allowed to go to Hogsmeade' debate here very briefly...

In all honestly I think that it's very likely that all visits to Hogsmeade will be cancelled, permission or no permission. If there is a full out war going on, odds are Dumbledore will not allow students to wonder about unescorted in the town. Within the castle grounds is one thing, but beyond that...I just can't see him risking the lives of his students like that.

Anyway...it's possible that perhaps the pictures on the back cover aren't meant to be just one thing, although it's doubtful. It could be a collage of some of the chapter pictures or something like that and Ron, Hermione and the other students reactions may have nothing to do with the dark mark at all. Harry's absence could be due to the simple fact that the illustrator chose not to draw him twice on the cover (he's already on the front) and preferred to draw his friends instead. It wouldn't make much sense to show Harry twice on the cover in my opinion so that could explain his absence. Quite possibly he is in the scene which the cover depicts but the artist chose to draw it as if he wasn't beside Ron or Hermione.

Dumbledore has known for a year that Voldemort was back and even after the Death Eaters escaped Azkaban he didn't curtail visits to Hogsmeade. You may be right but I suspect visits may still be permitted especially early in the book before the war escalates (unless of course it has escalated that much over the summer).

The collage idea is not without precedent. GOF had a collage on back.

I'm not talking about logic. I'm talking about how things work in books or movies. When there is one place that is "safe" for the hero, that place is often desecrated/destroyed. This puts the hero off-balance or without grounding.

I think it's going to come to a point in the books where nowhere is safe, not even Hogwarts - the place everyone always thought would be a safe haven.

Alternatively, it could become a base of operations for the good side. But I just can't see it remaining untouched by violence. (actually, we've already had murderers and Voldie-possessed people there, but I expect something more damaging soon)

JK is not just some other Author. She has a logical structure to what she writes. She isn't writing for the Movies. Plus like I said, the image dosen't jive with prior images of Hogwarts by the same Artist Grandpré

KiwiBird

July 9th, 2005, 10:47 pm

Culte Ventosus

July 9th, 2005, 10:47 pm

There are other clues pointing toward a battle at Hogwarts. Among the things JKR has said...
Grawp will do something good this book...
We will see Aragog again...
We will return to the Chamber of secrets...
Of course, the attitude of the Centaurs is in doubt, They did apparently reach an accord with Dumbledore when they released Umbridge to him. Hagrid could call upon Hippogriffs, thestrals, and Heaven knows what else.
I think the background is Hogwarts, though a battle in Hogsmeade would bring together the same opposing forces. After all, Voldemort doesn't need anything in Hogsmeade. He wants Harry, and Harry is at Hogwarts.

Tzigone

July 9th, 2005, 10:49 pm

JK is not just some other Author. She has a logical structure to what she writes. She isn't writing for the Movies. Plus like I said, the image dosen't jive with prior images of Hogwarts by the same Artist Grandpré

I'm talking about a common literary/cinematic occurance. I'm not saying it's Hogwarts on the cover (I have no idea). I am saying that I think it's very likely that there will be battle at Hogwarts before the series is over. There's nothing illogical about it, really. Eventually, if you want to rule the world, you have to take out your biggest threats (Dumbledore & Harry). It is possible they'll go on the offensive against Voldie first, though.

Also, JKR wrote Voldie doing the typical villian thing letting his opponent be armed in GOF.

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 10:51 pm

The battle at hogwarts will probably be in the 7th book .

Katty

July 9th, 2005, 10:57 pm

I don't think the dark mark is over Hogwarts. It's closer to us while Hogwarts is in the background.
Maybe the dark mark is over Hagrid's cabin. I don't think it's over Hogsmeade but it might.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 11:00 pm

So does everyone agree that those buildings in the background are howgarts or hogsmeade?

No that is still debated. I have stated why I do not think it can be Hogwarts. Hogsmeade is a possibility and others have pointed out Durmstang as a possibility

3rdWeasley_twin

July 9th, 2005, 11:00 pm

Well if that building in the background is hogwarts, then there are only a few possibilities where it can be:

-Hagrid's hut
-Hogsmeade
-Maybe this graveyard JKR speaks of
-somehwere near the lake?

Thats all i can think of at the moment.
P.S:
It can't be in the FF, because we wpuld clearly see some trees around the kids.

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 11:14 pm

the newest thingie shows for me that the dark mark is aboce hogwarts. everyone says its above those students, but for me it is clearly above hogwarts, thus i believe hogwarts will be attacked in book six, well i thought that already for some time but still... now i am sure

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/standee_sm.jpg

This crop from the Barnes & Noble Standee would support it being a town and not Hogswart. Notice the tail of the Dark Mark is on the right over buildings and the head is on the left over still more buildings. As I have said over and over, the artist Grandpré has drawn Hogswart twice before, the Title Page of Book 1 and on page 651 of OOTP. Neither show a circular turret that is open (w/o a roof) as depicted on the back cover of HBP.

HarryPotter

July 9th, 2005, 11:30 pm

No that is still debated. I have stated why I do not think it can be Hogwarts. Hogsmeade is a possibility and others have pointed out Durmstang as a possibilityIt seems the artist clearly got inspiration from this (http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25495&stc=1), therefore I do believe the castle depicted in the background is Hogwarts.

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 11:33 pm

It seems the artist clearly got inspiration from this (http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25495&stc=1), therefore I do believe the castle depicted in the background is Hogwarts.I agree...the back cover art appears to show one of the towers of Hogwarts...

On the promotional stand however, it appears to be more like a settlement---like Hogsmeade...see for yourselves...

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25536 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25537

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 11:36 pm

It seems the artist clearly got inspiration from this (http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25495&stc=1), therefore I do believe the castle depicted in the background is Hogwarts.

The artist is Mary Grandpré and she drew Hogwarts on the Title page of the US Editiuon of Harry Poter and the Sorcerer's Stone long before the movie was made.

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/turret.jpg

And you will see there is no circular turret w/o a roof in the movie version you show either

Nicole

July 9th, 2005, 11:37 pm

This crop from the Barnes & Noble Standee would support it being a town and not Hogswart. Notice the tail of the Dark Mark is on the right over buildings and the head is on the left over still more buildings.
Actually it is the promotional stand from Scholastic. It's posted in just about every media outlet I have been in, including the local Walmart.

Note how the Dark Mark is reversed on the promotional stand from the back cover art. It's been moved and changed to suit the purpose of the advertising/marketing plan.

HarryPotter

July 9th, 2005, 11:39 pm

The artist is Mary Grandpré and she drew Hogwarts on the Title page of the US Editiuon of Harry Poter and the Sorcerer's Stone long before the movie was made.

And you will see there is no circular turret w/o a roof in the movie version you show eitherI know who is the artist, and I'm not talking about the Sorcerer's Stone cover, but the HBP cover, that is the one we're debating right now.
The circular turret is there, in fact, it looks as if she had detached the cone on top of it and moved it to the left.

Anyway, as I said, she clearly got inspiration from it, she did not copy it literally, in the same way as she takes as reference her own body and face to draw Harry, but she doesn't use her self-portrait as Harry.

HBPhysteria

July 9th, 2005, 11:40 pm

The only magical appearances into or out of Hogwarts itself of which I am aware is the car flown by Harry and Ron in POA. And the car stalled when it got over Hogwarts.

Dobby can apparate within Hogwarts and JK has explained that is because it is necessary for them to perform their jobs that they are excepted.

Dumbledore left his office via Fawkes. We do not know he left Hogwarts itself. But like the Portkey, it was authorized by the Headmaster. Give one example other than Harry and Ron with the flying car of someone accessing Hogwarts via magical transportation not authorized by the Headmaster Dumbledore.

I stand by my thesis. No unauthorised person (and Voldemort and his followers would fall into that category) can magically transport into or out of Hogwarts. Any exceptions would have to be allowed by Dumbledore such as the limited examples cited by you.

Well Harry was magically transported out of Hogwarts grounds by the Triwizard Cup portkey. Considering its nature and who did it, I think we can safely assume that it wasn't authorized by Dumbledore.

Aurelen

July 9th, 2005, 11:41 pm

Note how the Dark Mark is reversed on the promotional stand from the back cover art. It's been moved and changed to suit the purpose of the advertising/marketing plan.

Nice observation. My mind has seemed to have concluded on its own that it is in Howgwarts without my say-so, but that seems to confirm it a bit.

HarryPotter

July 9th, 2005, 11:44 pm

Actually it is the promotional stand from Scholastic. It's posted in just about every media outlet I have been in, including the local Walmart.

Note how the Dark Mark is reversed on the promotional stand from the back cover art. It's been moved and changed to suit the purpose of the advertising/marketing plan.Exactly, in the same way as the long pedestal is a photo manipulation, the same pattern repeats over and over, probably done on purpose to reach the proper size for a stand.
The "city alike" houses at the sides of the stand are the same ones, mirrored

http://www.mugglenet.com/gallery/data/media/128/hbp5.jpg
The fragment of hi-res back cover we've got is not the full back side of the book, the sides have been cropped.
I think probably that "house" roof is simply the continuation of that Hogwarts Castle in the fragment we don't see.

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 11:46 pm

The artist is Mary Grandpré and she drew Hogwarts on the Title page of the US Editiuon of Harry Poter and the Sorcerer's Stone long before the movie was made.

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/turret.jpg

And you will see there is no circular turret w/o a roof in the movie version you show either
She also drew this pic RE: CoS, for a calender...you can clearly see a turret...the pic is small..
http://www.veritaserum.com/galleries/albums/books/grandpre/normal_hpdrawing23.jpg

timnew

July 9th, 2005, 11:50 pm

I know who is the artist, and I'm not talking about the Sorcerer's Stone cover, but the HBP cover, that is the one we're debating right now.
The circular turret is there, in fact, it looks as if she had detached the cone on top of it and moved it to the left.

Anyway, as I said, she clearly got inspiration from it, she did not copy it literally, in the same way as she takes as reference her own body and face to draw Harry, but she doesn't use her self-portrait as Harry.

My point is and has been the same artist is not likely to make such a drastic change without a very good reason. It wasn't in either previous depiction of Hogwarts. Not bk 1 nor in Bk 6. Compare for yourself. Why add it now? Makes more sense that the place is not Hogwarts and she is cluing you in that it isn't.

Nicole

Even more reason to believe the site is more spread out than Hogwarts. The publisher knows what it is depicting and they are careful of their promotional items not to mislead I think.

Nicole

July 9th, 2005, 11:54 pm

The publisher knows what it is depicting and they are careful of their promotional items not to mislead I think.
:rotfl: I guess you never saw the promotional stand for OotP...Not exactly misleading, but definitely montaging back and front covers, leaving out some parts of the back cover.

"In creating the Harry Potter artwork, I try to bring a certain amount of realism and believability to the characters and setting, but still add an element of wonder and the unknown," said Mary GrandPre. "For the cover of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, the mood of the art is truly eerie. I wanted the colors to be strong and I chose upward lighting and dramatic shadows to convey a kind of surreal place and time. It is an honor to illustrate for such an amazing writer as J.K. Rowling. She gives me, as an illustrator, so much to work with."

kingwidgit

July 9th, 2005, 11:55 pm

My point is and has been the same artist is not likely to make such a drastic change without a very good reason. It wasn't in either previous depiction of Hogwarts. Not bk 1 nor in Bk 6. Compare for yourself. Why add it now? Makes more sense that the place is not Hogwarts and she is cluing you in that it isn't.

Nicole

Even more reason to believe the site is more spread out than Hogwarts. The publisher knows what it is depicting and they are careful of their promotional items not to mislead I think.Here's a closer comparison of Hogwarts as done by MG...and the mystery background of HBP.
http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25542&stc=1 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25541&stc=1

HarryPotter

July 9th, 2005, 11:56 pm

bugoosta

July 10th, 2005, 12:01 am

okay, but my question is, why is everything green? is it just the effect of whatever it is that's infron of Dumbledore and Harry, or is there a reason for the color. In OotP the American cover was all blue, but that I figured represented that it was night time. Any ideas?

HarryPotter

July 10th, 2005, 12:07 am

In case it is necessary more proof:

Both are Grandpré's art, both seem to depict the same place (the blue image is mirrored):

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25543&stc=1

The Castle is Hogwarts

kingwidgit

July 10th, 2005, 12:20 am

timnew

July 10th, 2005, 12:20 am

Ok I now accept the argument that it may be (even likely is) Hogwarts. But I bet most arguing had not seen that image. I hadn't. I buy the books but not all the other Harry Potter stuff.

JStock

July 10th, 2005, 12:23 am

If the pictures you merged are supposed to be the same/similar, then why isn't the "Hogwarts castle" smaller? The first picture is fairly close up, but from that vantage point, we could see much more of the castle.

It seems to me that in order to get such a small piece of the castle on the back cover, we would have to have a view that was much further away, at which point the turret would be smaller.

Ok I now accept the argument that it may be (even likely is) Hogwarts. But I bet most arguing had not seen that image. I hadn't. I buy the books but not all the other Harry Potter stuff.

I'm still sticking with my Durmstrang theory. I think we would see more of the castle behind that section that is pictured, no matter how far away we were.

timnew

July 10th, 2005, 12:25 am

The image of Ron and Harry flying in the car is the first place I looked in the book expecting to find an image of Hogwarts but there wasn't one.

It removes my objection that it can not be Hogwarts. As to its significance, we'll find out in 6 days plus

JStock

July 10th, 2005, 12:25 am

Well Harry was magically transported out of Hogwarts grounds by the Triwizard Cup portkey. Considering its nature and who did it, I think we can safely assume that it wasn't authorized by Dumbledore.

Good point! I hadn't thought about that one.

timnew

July 10th, 2005, 12:40 am

The back cover depicts Ron and Hermione as well as two other Hogwarts students looking at “the Dark Mark”. Drawn in the same green tones as the front cover, GrandPré has created another incredible piece of art that captures the essence and mystery of the Harry Potter books.

That is the official description of the back cover.

PrairiePotterHe

July 10th, 2005, 12:41 am

I am not completely sold, but the student standing behind Ron on the back of the book jacket seems to have some similarities with the two illustrations of Luna Lovegood in the American version of OOTP-pages 179 and 397. What do you think?

timnew

July 10th, 2005, 12:42 am

Good point! I hadn't thought about that one.

Actually since Crouch did it while people thought he was Moody, DD may have mistakenly authorised it -- generally granting power to Moody, not specificly for that port-key but once the license was granted...

That is the one area people have pointed to Dumbledore as not being fool-proof. It appears he was fooled by the substitution

technophobe

July 10th, 2005, 12:53 am

Ok, let's all agree to disagree about whether or not it's Hogwarts. I'm getting a headache reading the arguments back and forth. We'll find out the truth soon enough!!

I think it's likely that it's Luna next to Ron. Also, the other girl kind of looks like Ginny, but the official statement only confirms Ron and Hermione being on the back.

I hate to speculate, cause I'm usually wrong. I'd just like to point out that all of GrandPre's cover art is very loosely drawn. So don't put too much emphasis on it: the other covers didn't tell us much, so I don't want to assume this one will make much sense until we've finished the book.

timnew

July 10th, 2005, 1:23 am

I hate to speculate, cause I'm usually wrong. I'd just like to point out that all of GrandPre's cover art is very loosely drawn. So don't put too much emphasis on it: the other covers didn't tell us much, so I don't want to assume this one will make much sense until we've finished the book.

Of course it won't but since the JK website hasn't posted any updates we have to do something until the book is released and as I said before by then every pixel of these covers will have been discussed, hashed over, debated, agreed and then the cycle will start anew. It isn't about being right or wrong, it's about exploring the possibilities and the whys and wherefores and hows :D

At least I hope everybody is doing this in fun and aren't going to be mad when JK fools us all

whizbang121

July 10th, 2005, 2:10 am

Of course it won't but since the JK website hasn't posted any updates we have to do something until the book is released and as I said before by then every pixel of these covers will have been discussed, hashed over, debated, agreed and then the cycle will start anew. It isn't about being right or wrong, it's about exploring the possibilities and the whys and wherefores and hows :D

At least I hope everybody is doing this in fun and aren't going to be mad when JK fools us all
Well said.

Hope everyone is here for fun and not a competition.

Sybill

July 10th, 2005, 2:14 am

What I see is Ron and Hermione - although Ron looks much cuter than any of the previous drawings - Looks like Ginny and Neville behind them - the roundfaced boy. They are looking up at, of couse, the Dark Mark. We were told in previous books that the Dark Mark was usually displayed after one of the DEs or LV killed someone. It does appear to be Hogwarts - but in the shadows, like they are on the grounds near Hagrid's hut or something. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??? I am so glad that there is only one week to go!

RELASHIO Rachel

July 10th, 2005, 2:20 am

The artist is Mary Grandpré and she drew Hogwarts on the Title page of the US Editiuon of Harry Poter and the Sorcerer's Stone long before the movie was made.

http://timnew.com/temp/hbp/covers/turret.jpg

And you will see there is no circular turret w/o a roof in the movie version you show either

Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's possible the circular turret seen on the back cover is short and on the side of the castle.

Either way, we know Voldemort attacks near where students are. So why not Hogwarts????? This sounds idiotic but is the Dark Mark only fired when somebody is killed or when Voldemort is "at large" or present????

crabcakes

July 10th, 2005, 2:27 am

kingwidgit

July 10th, 2005, 2:29 am

This sounds idiotic but is the Dark Mark only fired when somebody is killed or when Voldemort is "at large" or present????It is conjured by LV/Death Eaters and yes they put it in the air following a kill. GoF, The Dark Mark pg 142 [US]..."Ron, You-Know-Who and his followers sent the Dark Mark into the air whenever they killed,"

RELASHIO Rachel

July 10th, 2005, 2:35 am

It is conjured by LV/Death Eaters and yes they put it in the air following a kill. GoF, The Dark Mark pg 142 [US]..."Ron, You-Know-Who and his followers sent the Dark Mark into the air whenever they killed,"

Thank you, that's what I thought but didn't want to make assumptions without being too sure. Reading the books nine times you'd think I'd know this by heart, but nope :D.

If the pictures you merged are supposed to be the same/similar, then why isn't the "Hogwarts castle" smaller? The first picture is fairly close up, but from that vantage point, we could see much more of the castle.

It seems to me that in order to get such a small piece of the castle on the back cover, we would have to have a view that was much further away, at which point the turret would be smaller.

I'm still sticking with my Durmstrang theory. I think we would see more of the castle behind that section that is pictured, no matter how far away we were.

But, if it is Durmstrang, aren't we not supposed to see Krum again until book seven or "not soon". I don't know the exact quoting but isn't Krum not supposed to make an appearance for a bit?????? I suppose the castle being Durmstrang doesn't absolutely mean that Krum has to be attached to it, but it'd make sense.

Good theory and great observation to the poster above about the CoS "greenish gloom". Afterall, the basin-type thing that Harry and Dumbledore are peering into does look ancient and could absolutely be located in the Chamber........ This opens up a whole new list of theories. Perhaps this basin/pensieve/whatever is located in the Chamber?????

kingwidgit

July 10th, 2005, 2:37 am

I just have to comment; I'm re-rereading COS in time for HBP, and came across a couple of things I hadn't noticed before in CH. 17, one of which I think has a relation to the HBP US cover.

1) Tom tells Harry that it was easy to frame Hagrid because Tom was the charming prefect while Hagrid was "in trouble every week, trying to raise werewolf cubs under his bed..." Interesting, that. Can werewolves be born instead of bitten? And are the natural-born wolves more wolf-like (ie being 'cubs' as opposed to 'kids) than human? If so, could that put up a notch for Lupin being the HBP?

2) At the very beginning on Ch. 17, Harry walks into the Chamber. "He was standing at the end of a very long, dimly lit chamber. Towering stone pillars entwined with more carved serpents rose to support a ceiling lost in darkness, casting long, black shadows through the odd, greenish gloom that filled the place." Hmm....pillars, greenish gloom....sounds like the US cover to me.[1] blaise_42 asks: In Chamber of Secrets, Hagrid is supposed to have raised werewolf cubs under his bed. Are these the same kind of werewolves as Professor Lupin?

jkrowling_bn: no... Riddle was telling lies about Hagrid, just slandering him

[2] PS/SS, Diagon Alley pg. 75: Griphook unlocked the door (Harry's Vault). A lot of green smoke came billowing out...

Green smoke, green fog---it occurs several times in the books...