Little Questions Answered

It's in chapter 10 of GoF. Page 151 in the US Hardcover. It's right after they get back from the Quidditch World Cup.
Wasn't that a grandfather clock? How did she get that into the laundry basket???

http://students.washington.edu/bryanws/images/smiley/shifty-eyed.gif

I guess that McGonagall would be Headmistress... .


I think the board of governors will elect a new headmaster i.e. Slughorn

why did Snape choose that moment to tell Harry he was the Half-Blood Prince? Did he do it out of spite, so that Harry could know that Snape was the one helping him all year, or did he want Harry to know he was the Half-Blood Prince for some other strange reason?


Yes _ I agree - strange timing...how did he know Harry had his book - and that Harry was referring to him as the half blood prince?

When Harper's going after the Snitch, and Harry's trying to catch up with him, Harry out of frustration says 'how much did Malfoy pay you to come up here?' And Harper does a double take, snatches at the snitch, "lets it slip between his fingers" and zooms away without a backward glance. It made me think that the Slytherins lost on purpose. Why??


No - I think that it just means that MALFOY missed the game on purpose and PAID HARPER to take his place, so that he (malfoy) could put in more time in the ROR

Was Malfoy using Polyjuice to impersonate Tonks in the hallway on the seventh floor? Harry observed that Malfoy looked pale like Tonks, and noted that her behavior was out of sorts.

Good questions - since it was on the 7th floor outside the ROR

I guess my question is - where is Draco getting all these bits of other people?

I think the tear in the soul happens with every murder, but only those intending to make a Horcrux do anything about it or with it. As Dumbledore says, they "take advantage" of the damage to make the horcrux. So, murder always tears one's soul, but it doesn't always result in a horcrux.


Yes - to make a horcrux you must PARCEL up your soul - using Parseltongue????

Also I love your GBShaw quote

Yes _ I agree - strange timing...how did he know Harry had his book - and that Harry was referring to him as the half blood prince?Snape wasn't fooled by Harry giving him Roonil Wazlib's book instead of his own. He really didn't believe that Harry suddenly became excellent in Potions all by himself either. He could easily have found out that his own old book was missing from the cupboard in the classroom. And put two and two together....

The actual quote, by Hermione, is "You said to us once before, that there was time time to turn back if we wanted to."

I haven't got my PS with me, but I'm fairly certain this is a reference Harry's statement to them before they went through the trap door.

That Hermione finishes the statement with "We've had time, haven't we?" states that she and Ron would never turn back and leave Harry alone.


This is from the OOP when Percy sends a letter to Ron telling him to stay away from Harry.

when Tonks heals Harry's nose (and Harry uses it later during Quidditch practice), the spell "Episkey" ...... the second time I read that...the thing that popped up was "expecto patronum is key". Probably a stretch, but any other thoughts out there?

Fantastic theory :tu:

I believe Harry will get Voldie with Ridikulus or Expecto Patronum not a killing curse (Avada Kedavra).

Tonks's patronus was a werewolf, though Harry suspected "Padfoot" as her patronus....

Speaking of which - who is the Auror PROUDFOOT ???

When the Taj Mahal was built the Mogal king had all the hands cut off of all the workers so that they could not build another structure such as the one he had built for his wife...


What a sick *******!

I thought the one with Mortal Peril was in the movie. Was it in a book before HBP?

The clock was in the first one with the burrow - cos - but the hands were just pointed to home, work, school, travelling. 12 o'clock was mortal peril.

In HBP all nine hands face mortal peril.

Interesting that PERCY is in mortal peril too !!!!

Snape wasn't fooled by Harry giving him Roonil Wazlib's book instead of his own. He really didn't believe that Harry suddenly became excellent in Potions all by himself either. He could easily have found out that his own old book was missing from the cupboard in the classroom. And put two and two together....


Maybe he wasn't fooled by Roonil Wazlib's book - but why did he, SNAPE, leave his old potions book in the cupboard?

Isn't that a bit odd for such a secretive character (who has a house full of books AND an office of his own at Hogwarts). If he forgot it there - when? - why would he know Harry had it?

Yet it did help Harry - a lot. Is this part of the teaching Snape tried to give Harry - because Snape is truly good? :angel:

The actual quote, by Hermione, is "You said to us once before, that there was time time to turn back if we wanted to."

I haven't got my PS with me, but I'm fairly certain this is a reference Harry's statement to them before they went through the trap door.


Yes - it is is SS

in OOP Harry refers to them severing ties with him.

Interesting she says they have had plenty of ... time.

Someone also opened a thread on why Fleur was called Phlegm and that was answered.Where did that thread go? I can't find it. So why did they call her Phlegm? :huh:

Wasn't that a grandfather clock? How did she get that into the laundry basket???
Yes, it was a grandfather clock. Shrinking spell to get it in the laundry basket? And why didn't Molly do locomotor basket?

The other clock to remind her about chores was on the wall.

Where did that thread go? I can't find it. So why did they call her Phlegm? :huh:
It was a play on sounds. Fl and Phl sound the same. Ginny translated it into Phlegm to be nasty.

It was a play on sounds. Fl and Phl sound the same. Ginny translated it into Phlegm to be nasty.Oh, thanks. Didn't think of that, allthough I know some french. :blush:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fact-Finding_Witch
My question is ... WHEN did Malfoy (draco or otherwise) get the Hand of Glory..


He got it in COS when Harry went too far on the Floo Powder and came out in Knockturn Alley.

In the movie Harry stuck his hand in it.
End Quote:

Since Malfoy could go between Hogwarts and the B&B shop..he probably filched it when he went on one of his runs after repairing the cabinet in the room of requirement. The two were connected..that is how the death-eaters got in..right?

Wasn't that a grandfather clock? How did she get that into the laundry basket??? That's a great image, isn't it? Molly walking around with a seven foot tall grandfather clock balanced on top of her laundry basket. :lol:

I'm sure a magical clock doesn't need a cabinet with a long pendulum in it to work, so maybe the top part with the actual clock in it is removable? Or maybe JKR confused it with the chore clock on the wall. :elaugh:
Since Malfoy could go between Hogwarts and the B&B shop..he probably filched it when he went on one of his runs after repairing the cabinet in the room of requirement. The two were connected..that is how the death-eaters got in..right?That is how the death eaters got in, but I think the assault on Hogwarts happened as soon as Draco got the cabinet working. We overheard him celebrating in the Room of Requirement, and a few hours later, the school was swarming with death eaters. So the link between Borgin and Burke's wasn't up and running for very long before the attack. Since it doesn't seem like Lucius got the hand for him that day, he probably wheedled his mother into getting it for him later.

I'm sure a magical clock doesn't need a cabinet with a long pendulum in it to work, so maybe the top part with the actual clock in it is removable? Or maybe JKR confused it with the chore clock on the wall. Maybe Molly transfigured it to make it more portable. It's magic!

the mouth organ was probably something dd suspected of being a horcrux, when he explored over it he realized that it wasnt, so he just left i there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fact-Finding_Witch
My question is ... WHEN did Malfoy (draco or otherwise) get the Hand of Glory..


He got it in COS when Harry went too far on the Floo Powder and came out in Knockturn Alley.

In the movie Harry stuck his hand in it.
End Quote:

Since Malfoy could go between Hogwarts and the B&B shop..he probably filched it when he went on one of his runs after repairing the cabinet in the room of requirement. The two were connected..that is how the death-eaters got in..right?

Actually, Malfoy did leave B&B with a package under his cloak ... I think he bought it when he arranged for the cabinet. He just didn't take the cabinet with him.

Maybe Molly transfigured it to make it more portable. It's magic!
You mean this guys can actually do magic??? My god... :rotfl:

How about a grandfather clock that was always small? is that possible? maybe she had a small grandfather? :agree:

I know that we first see the Hand of Glory in CoS and that Draco asks for it, but it appeard in the book that Lucius didn't budge. How ever, we hear (ron I think? I don't have my book) saying that draco was carrying HIS hand of glory, as if stating all along that they new he had it.

Also, wasn't one of the suggestions Ron makes of things needing fixing during Draco's Detour, doesn't he says something like "Maybe he smashed his hand of glory".

Maybe this is a slip from JK, maybe we were supposed to think that old Lucius did bought the darn think back in CoS. Maybe he bought it later and we just werent told... oh well. The fact is that he had one... to bad.

know that we first see the Hand of Glory in CoS and that Draco asks for it, but it appeard in the book that Lucius didn't budge. How ever, we hear (ron I think? I don't have my book) saying that draco was carrying HIS hand of glory, as if stating all along that they new he had it.

Also, wasn't one of the suggestions Ron makes of things needing fixing during Draco's Detour, doesn't he says something like "Maybe he smashed his hand of glory".

Maybe this is a slip from JK, maybe we were supposed to think that old Lucius did bought the darn think back in CoS. Maybe he bought it later and we just werent told... oh well. The fact is that he had one... to bad.I found this very irritating. Maybe she originally had Draco buy it in CoS, but edited it out. Then she forgot that it was no longer there. She has said that she doesn't reread the books when they are finished and there is a lot to keep track of.

I found this very irritating. Maybe she originally had Draco buy it in CoS, but edited it out. Then she forgot that it was no longer there. She has said that she doesn't reread the books when they are finished and there is a lot to keep track of.

I could have sworn the book said that Draco had a package hidden under his cloak ... but I was wrong ... maybe he arranged to have the hand of glory sent to him. However, Ron pointed out that


"maybe he's broken his Hand of Glory," said Ron vaguely ...

I could have sworn the book said that Draco had a package hidden under his cloak ... but I was wrong ... maybe he arranged to have the hand of glory sent to him. However, Ron pointed out that


"maybe he's broken his Hand of Glory," said Ron vaguely ...
Which brings up another question. How did Ron know about the Hand of Glory much less that Draco had one?

Which brings up another question. How did Ron know about the Hand of Glory much less that Draco had one?

exactly ... it's rather fishy ... it's been a while since i've read book six though ... i'm re-reading the series and i'm only on book 2 ... i may just scrap the rest of them and re-read six though ;)

I swore he got it in CoS too. But its not said for sure.

"Can I have that?" interrupted Draco, pointing at the withered hand on its cushion. "Ah the Hand of Glory!" said Mr. Borgin, abandoning Mr. Mafloy's list and scrrying over to Draco. "Insert a candle and it gives light only to the holder! Best friend of thieves and plunderers! Your son has fine taste, sir."

Then later Mr. Weasly asks if Malfoy bought anything and Harry replied "No he was selling..."

I found this very irritating. Maybe she originally had Draco buy it in CoS, but edited it out. Then she forgot that it was no longer there. She has said that she doesn't reread the books when they are finished and there is a lot to keep track of.
I guess this might be part of it... Ron definitelly acts as if he new Draco had one...

Thanks fot the quote Surry, that's what I was talking about.

Chances are that Harry told them all about the Hand of Glory in CoS, it doesn't matter if we don't hear him telling them. What bothers me is that we never saw Draco getting it and it seemed like Lucius thought it wasn't a good object to buy, aid for simple thiefs.

When Ron brings it up, it feels to me like JK is hinting... hey guys... remember the Hand of Glory Draco wanted... he did buy it... remember it because it will be important later...

I don't like how it went.

I guess this might be part of it... Ron definitelly acts as if he new Draco had one...

Thanks fot the quote Surry, that's what I was talking about.

Chances are that Harry told them all about the Hand of Glory in CoS, it doesn't matter if we don't hear him telling them. What bothers me is that we never saw Draco getting it and it seemed like Lucius thought it wasn't a good object to buy, aid for simple thiefs.

When Ron brings it up, it feels to me like JK is hinting... hey guys... remember the Hand of Glory Draco wanted... he did buy it... remember it because it will be important later...

I don't like how it went.
Well ... we have speculated that TR spent some time in Diagon Alley and in Knockturn alley even when he was at school. HE seemed to pretty much have free reign as to the amount of time he may have spent there. It's certainly possible that Draco accompanied his mother to Diagon Alley for general purposes ... frog spawn ... new robes ... whatnot ... *shrugs* who knows.

Well ... we have speculated that TR spent some time in Diagon Alley and in Knockturn alley even when he was at school. HE seemed to pretty much have free reign as to the amount of time he may have spent there. It's certainly possible that Draco accompanied his mother to Diagon Alley for general purposes ... frog spawn ... new robes ... whatnot ... *shrugs* who knows.
Sure... i don't deny there were a lot of chances in which Draco could have bought the freaking hand, but there's only one that we know of in which someone could pass that informaiton to Harry and Co. and thats the one were harry over shoots on flu and lands in B & B... but (if someone has the book please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't Draco says: "You said you were going to buy me something...." and lucius answers "I said I was going to buy you a race-broom" and then Draco starts to complain for empth time that he is not in the team and so on...
So why does Ron acts as if he knew draco owned the Hand of Glory...

Sure... i don't deny there were a lot of chances in which Draco could have bought the freaking hand, but there's only one that we know of in which someone could pass that informaiton to Harry and Co. and thats the one were harry over shoots on flu and lands in B & B... but (if someone has the book please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't Draco says: "You said you were going to buy me something...." and lucius answers "I said I was going to buy you a race-broom" and then Draco starts to complain for empth time that he is not in the team and so on...
So why does Ron acts as if he knew draco owned the Hand of Glory...

Hmmm I wonder if he says anything when H and R turn into Crabbe and Goyle with the PJ potion ... lemme check on that.

So why does Ron acts as if he knew draco owned the Hand of Glory.

Ron is a Legilimens!

Sure... i don't deny there were a lot of chances in which Draco could have bought the freaking hand, but there's only one that we know of in which someone could pass that informaiton to Harry and Co. and thats the one were harry over shoots on flu and lands in B & B... but (if someone has the book please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't Draco says: "You said you were going to buy me something...." and lucius answers "I said I was going to buy you a race-broom" and then Draco starts to complain for empth time that he is not in the team and so on...
So why does Ron acts as if he knew draco owned the Hand of Glory...

If we assume that it was bought for Draco some time soon after its first mention, for instance his parents gave it to him for his birthday (or he bought it with his own money, or whatever), then by HBP, four years later, load of Draco's contemporaries will know about it. I assumed he'd had it for a while, the excitement had died down, there'd been no immediate plot reason for it to be introduced more than it already has been, and so Ron and Harry just accept it as something Draco has. They know plenty of things that we haven't explicitly seen them find out - after all, the books can't possibly report everything that goes on.

The other answer is that JKR made a mistake, but I prefer mine. :)

If we assume that it was bought for Draco some time soon after its first mention, for instance his parents gave it to him for his birthday (or he bought it with his own money, or whatever), then by HBP, four years later, load of Draco's contemporaries will know about it. I assumed he'd had it for a while, the excitement had died down, there'd been no immediate plot reason for it to be introduced more than it already has been, and so Ron and Harry just accept it as something Draco has. They know plenty of things that we haven't explicitly seen them find out - after all, the books can't possibly report everything that goes on.

The other answer is that JKR made a mistake, but I prefer mine. :)

Ron comes from a long line of pureblood wizards so ron naturally know of things that muggle-borns wouldn't. The hand of glory is probably very well known item that wizards know of. Just because ron might have not known malfoy bought it doesn't mean he couldn't of have recognized what it was

Ron comes from a long line of pureblood wizards so ron naturally know of things that muggle-borns wouldn't. The hand of glory is probably very well known item that wizards know of. Just because ron might have not known malfoy bought it doesn't mean he couldn't of have recognized what it was
But he never saw it... until the end... and he mentions it on "Dracos Detour"...

But he never saw it... until the end... and he mentions it on "Dracos Detour"...

I don't remember him mentioning it on "Dracos Detour" could he elaborate on what exactly he said

oooh I was just looking for the polyjuice conversation, and just for the first time noticed this...

From the Polyjuice Potion, CoS
Malfoy paused by a stretch of bare, damp stone wall. "What's the new password again?" he said to Harry.
"Er- " said Harry.
"Oh, yeah - pure-blood!" said Malfoy, not listening, and a stone door concealed in the wall slid open.

where have we seen that before oho! the same thing happened in the cave!

Ron comes from a long line of pureblood wizards so ron naturally know of things that muggle-borns wouldn't. The hand of glory is probably very well known item that wizards know of. Just because ron might have not known malfoy bought it doesn't mean he couldn't of have recognized what it was

I take your point, and agree Ron might well have known about it in general, but from the book I got the definite impression that he knew specifically that Draco had one.

I don't remember him mentioning it on "Dracos Detour" could he elaborate on what exactly he said

actually it's in the very next chapter ... ron states "maybe he broke his hand of glory"

I take your point, and agree Ron might well have known about it in general, but from the book I got the definite impression that he knew specifically that Draco had one.

In CoS, Harry saw Lucius and Draco in Borgin & Burkes. The Hand of Glory was discussed, Draco asked his father if he could have it. Borgin explained what it did. Harry related the story to Ron afterwards. From CoS, chapter 4: "Can I have that?" interrupted Draco, pointing at the withered hand on its cushion. "Ah, the Hand of Glory," said Mr. Borgin, abandoning Mr. Malfoy's list and scurrying over to Draco. "Insert a candle and it gives light only to the holder! Best friend of thieves and plunderers! Your son has find taste, sir."

In CoS, Harry saw Lucius and Draco in Borgin & Burkes. The Hand of Glory was discussed, Draco asked his father if he could have it. Borgin explained what it did. Harry related the story to Ron afterwards. From CoS, chapter 4: "Can I have that?" interrupted Draco, pointing at the withered hand on its cushion. "Ah, the Hand of Glory," said Mr. Borgin, abandoning Mr. Malfoy's list and scurrying over to Draco. "Insert a candle and it gives light only to the holder! Best friend of thieves and plunderers! Your son has find taste, sir."

If i could expand .. what i'm getting from this post is that eventually Draco talked his dad into getting it for him ... AFTER the racing broom ... maybe the NEXT year when he went to get his supplies .. his dad relented? HUMAN nature rears it's ugly head again!!!!

oooh I was just looking for the polyjuice conversation, and just for the first time noticed this...

From the Polyjuice Potion, CoS
Malfoy paused by a stretch of bare, damp stone wall. "What's the new password again?" he said to Harry.
"Er- " said Harry.
"Oh, yeah - pure-blood!" said Malfoy, not listening, and a stone door concealed in the wall slid open.

where have we seen that before oho! the same thing happened in the cave!
Aha! Now we know why Dumbledore's blood might be 'more valuable' than Harry's. I wonder if Voldemort forced a Death Eater along to set up the cave.

I think Dumbledore said that Harry's blood was more valuable and that was why he (DD) used his own. Remember that when they were leaving, Harry used his own blood since he had scraped his arm during the battle to get away from the inferi.

I think Dumbledore said that Harry's blood was more valuable and that was why he (DD) used his own. Remember that when they were leaving, Harry used his own blood since he had scraped his arm during the battle to get away from the inferi.
You're correct. I felt at the time that Harry, being younger, was more valuable than Dumbledore, but have since decided that Dumbledore knew that he was dying already and it didn't matter if he lost a little more blood.

But, of course, there could have been a lot more to it; Harry's blood protection from Lily, the blood from Harry LV used to regenerate himself. That's all I can think of for now.

Do we know how much blood it took to open the door? I guess that if it was a couple of drops then Dumbledore was beeing very fussy about it.

Do we know how much blood it took to open the door? I guess that if it was a couple of drops then Dumbledore was beeing very fussy about it.
It couldn't have taken too much blood. A scrape doesn't bleed much, even a large one. If it's deep enough to bleed a lot, then it's a cut and not a scrape.

It couldn't have taken too much blood. A scrape doesn't bleed much, even a large one. If it's deep enough to bleed a lot, then it's a cut and not a scrape.Depends (can't believe I'm posting this... must be a slow morning!). I'm an unwitting expert in scrapes and bruises and things, and a long scrape can bleed an awful lot!

Depends (can't believe I'm posting this... must be a slow morning!). I'm an unwitting expert in scrapes and bruises and things, and a long scrape can bleed an awful lot!
Fall off often, then? ;) That's okay. Girls are easliy impressed by scars.

This is the first time I've connected the "blood sacrifice" in that chapter. Another biblical connection. Hmmmmm..... Wish I knew where she was going with all that.

Fall off often, then? ;) That's okay. Girls are easliy impressed by scars.You could say that! Heck, in mountain biking if you haven't come back bruised and battered you weren't trying hard enough... or you're a lot better than I am!

This is the first time I've connected the "blood sacrifice" in that chapter. Another biblical connection. Hmmmmm..... Wish I knew where she was going with all that.Yet one more blood mention - blood ties of family, blood to bring back Voldemort, the blood protection, and blood to gain entrance to, and exit from, well hell I suppose really! Or at the very least, a quite unpleasant underworld filled with the dead.

Better dead than undead. I think. Maybe.

It's interesting though, that in this chapter where Dumbledore's words echo Gethsemane and Golgotha, we would also find both Dumbledore and Harry shedding blood to enter and exit the cave filled with a watery grave full of undead guys. Is JKR trying to tell us something here or is she just making a garden salad with a side order of chili con carne? Sometimes it seems like she just throws things in a blender.

I think Dumbledore said that Harry's blood was more valuable and that was why he (DD) used his own. Remember that when they were leaving, Harry used his own blood since he had scraped his arm during the battle to get away from the inferi.
I don't know about the whole "value" of blood thing ... Harry used the blood to get OUT of the cave ... and to take DD back to Hogwarts.

Better dead than undead. I think. Maybe.

It's interesting though, that in this chapter where Dumbledore's words echo Gethsemane and Golgotha, we would also find both Dumbledore and Harry shedding blood to enter and exit the cave filled with a watery grave full of undead guys. Is JKR trying to tell us something here or is she just making a garden salad with a side order of chili con carne? Sometimes it seems like she just throws things in a blender.
I imagine it's easier to chile con carne something when it's off the wall ... magicaly speaking :)

Snape is the one Voldemort thinks is a traitor. He goes back at the end of GoF and convinces Voldemort that he has always been loyal. He says this to Bellatrix and Narcissa in HBP ch.2. Karkaroff is the coward who sold out all his old friends and then fled. Snape the highly successful double agent is anything but cowardly!

As seen through LV's eyes, yeah it makes sense. But what do you think Snape did to ensure he lived. What payment did Karkaroff have to pay before dying?

As seen through LV's eyes, yeah it makes sense. But what do you think Snape did to ensure he lived. What payment did Karkaroff have to pay before dying?I don't know, but since it is Voldemort speaking, it's his opinion about it that matters.

Question I've got about the ring is not when it was destroyed as a Horcrux, because I'm sure the crack in the stone means that the soul had been released--but why was Dumbledore wearing it? Wearing it would seem to show a lot of carelessness on DD's part. I mean it might have been recognized, and showing off trophies wasn't exactly DD's style.

As for the conversation between Harry and DD and the mouth organ -- I think DD called Harry astute becaused he'd figured out that there was something significant in Voldemort's "thing" about trophies.

Question I've got about the ring is not when it was destroyed as a Horcrux, because I'm sure the crack in the stone means that the soul had been released--but why was Dumbledore wearing it? Wearing it would seem to show a lot of carelessness on DD's part. I mean it might have been recognized, and showing off trophies wasn't exactly DD's style.

As for the conversation between Harry and DD and the mouth organ -- I think DD called Harry astute becaused he'd figured out that there was something significant in Voldemort's "thing" about trophies.


I've heard some crazy theories about Dumbledore and that ring, most having to do with his blackened hand and supposed sacrifice. In other words, maybe at the time DD was wearing the ring, it wasn't totally sapped of its "Horcrux powers" yet and he was containing it in some way. The only problem I have with this theory is that this is supposed to be the explanation for the blackened hand, but DD was wearing the ring on his healthy hand when we first saw it, right?

I'm sure DD had a reason, and if it wasn't containment of power, it could have been something as silly as trying to throw a subtle hint at Slughorn (since he was, after all, going to visit Slughorn that night he had the ring on).

In any case, good question! =)

I'm sure DD had a reason, and if it wasn't containment of power, it could have been something as silly as trying to throw a subtle hint at Slughorn (since he was, after all, going to visit Slughorn that night he had the ring on).
In Slughorn's memory, when TR was asking him about the hxs, TR was wearing the ring.

In Slughorn's memory, when TR was asking him about the hxs, TR was wearing the ring.


There we are! Good catch, Desraelda, I had forgotten about that. ^_^

So, I suppose the question now is... how observant was/is Slughorn?

I've heard some crazy theories about Dumbledore and that ring, most having to do with his blackened hand and supposed sacrifice. In other words, maybe at the time DD was wearing the ring, it wasn't totally sapped of its "Horcrux powers" yet and he was containing it in some way. The only problem I have with this theory is that this is supposed to be the explanation for the blackened hand, but DD was wearing the ring on his healthy hand when we first saw it, right?

I'm sure DD had a reason, and if it wasn't containment of power, it could have been something as silly as trying to throw a subtle hint at Slughorn (since he was, after all, going to visit Slughorn that night he had the ring on).

In any case, good question! =)

Actually, according to HBP ... when DD and Harry go to get Slughorn, DD's hand was blackened, and he was wearing the ring on his GOOD hand. I'm thinking that the Horcrux was destroyed at this point because of the "Broken" black stone.

Actually, according to HBP ... when DD and Harry go to get Slughorn, DD's hand was blackened, and he was wearing the ring on his GOOD hand. I'm thinking that the Horcrux was destroyed at this point because of the "Broken" black stone.

Yeah, sorry I guess I wasn't clear... that's what I meant when I said the only problem I had with that theory is that the ring is on his good/healthy hand when we first see it.

I'm liking the "impression on Slughorn" theory with the ring more and more as time passes... who knows. o_O;; HP theories sometimes drive my brian nuts!

Question I've got about the ring is not when it was destroyed as a Horcrux, because I'm sure the crack in the stone means that the soul had been released--but why was Dumbledore wearing it? Wearing it would seem to show a lot of carelessness on DD's part. I mean it might have been recognized, and showing off trophies wasn't exactly DD's style.

As for the conversation between Harry and DD and the mouth organ -- I think DD called Harry astute becaused he'd figured out that there was something significant in Voldemort's "thing" about trophies.

I could be wrong..but I thought the whole purpose of DD wearing the ring and Harry's interest and eventual acknowledgement from DD of his noticing it was purposeful in Harry recognizing symbols of Horcrutzs..or soul engines...right?

Question I've got about the ring is not when it was destroyed as a Horcrux, because I'm sure the crack in the stone means that the soul had been released--but why was Dumbledore wearing it? Wearing it would seem to show a lot of carelessness on DD's part. I mean it might have been recognized, and showing off trophies wasn't exactly DD's style.DD had specific reasons for wearing that ring in front of Slughorn...

In CoS, Harry had given DD the first solid evidence that perhaps LV had created a Horcrux...so DD starts looking for evidence that this is so.

In GoF, Harry gives DD info about LV, who claimed that he'd 'gone farther than any wizard' in his experiments to gain immortality.

Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP, DD had obtained that altered memory from Slughorn.
Within that altered memory, we see Tom Riddle wearing that ring. Suspecting that Tom had made more than one Horcrux, because of the diary, he began to search for LVs Horcruxes.
Now, Dumbledore knows the significance of that ring...he knew it had been stolen from Morphin Gaunt, following the murders of the Riddles.

DD put his impressive mind to finding a Horcrux...and did find that ring, well hidden, within the wreck of the old Gaunt Place. He only found the ring a few days before he collected Harry from #4 Privet Drive.

That same night, he took Harry to Slughorn...how did DD know where to find him?...and while talking to Slughorn, casually let Slughorn see the ring. Slughorn, who'd spent years trying to suppress that memory, and having given an altered version of it, would (& did) recognize that ring from his own memory. It confirmed his worst fear...Tom had made a Horcrux, and DD knew it, too. Remember how ashamed he was of that memory, before he gave it to Harry?

DD had specific reasons for wearing that ring in front of Slughorn...

In CoS, Harry had given DD the first solid evidence that perhaps LV had created a Horcrux...so DD starts looking for evidence that this is so.

In GoF, Harry gives DD info about LV, who claimed that he'd 'gone farther than any wizard' in his experiments to gain immortality.

Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP, DD had obtained that altered memory from Slughorn.
Within that altered memory, we see Tom Riddle wearing that ring. Suspecting that Tom had made more than one Horcrux, because of the diary, he began to search for LVs Horcruxes.
Now, Dumbledore knows the significance of that ring...he knew it had been stolen from Morphin Gaunt, following the murders of the Riddles.

DD put his impressive mind to finding a Horcrux...and did find that ring, well hidden, within the wreck of the old Gaunt Place. He only found the ring a few days before he collected Harry from #4 Privet Drive.

That same night, he took Harry to Slughorn...how did DD know where to find him?...and while talking to Slughorn, casually let Slughorn see the ring. Slughorn, who'd spent years trying to suppress that memory, and having given an altered version of it, would (& did) recognize that ring from his own memory. It confirmed his worst fear...Tom had made a Horcrux, and DD knew it, too. Remember how ashamed he was of that memory, before he gave it to Harry?

POOR Sluggy ... gave LV the info .. or DID he? Actually, Sluggy didn't tell LV anything other than that making a Horcrux is pretty much an evil thing ... didn't confirm or deny the "7Part Soul Theory" so why exactly IS Sluggy feeling so guilty? I would suspect that DD has a portrait of someone who knows a portrait of someone who has a portrait of someone who knows where Sluggy lives ;)

Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP, DD had obtained that altered memory from Slughorn.
Do we really know that Slughorn gave that altered memory to DD before he and Harry visited? It didn't seem that they had seen each other for awhile: "Well, how have you been keeping, Horace?" Dumbledore asked. "Not so well," said Slughorn at once. "Weak chest. Wheezy. Rheumatism too. Can't move like I used to. Well, that's to be expected. Old age. Fatigue."This doesn't sound like something you'd say to someone you'd recently seen.

I do agree with you that DD went there, wearing that ring, in the hopes of jogging Sluggy's memory - I just don't think he had gotten anything from him yet. I think DD had a pretty shrewd idea that Sluggy knew something, though. He could have gotten the altered memory from him anytime during the start of term.

Do we really know that Slughorn gave that altered memory to DD before he and Harry visited? It didn't seem that they had seen each other for awhile: "Well, how have you been keeping, Horace?" Dumbledore asked. "Not so well," said Slughorn at once. "Weak chest. Wheezy. Rheumatism too. Can't move like I used to. Well, that's to be expected. Old age. Fatigue."This doesn't sound like something you'd say to someone you'd recently seen.

I do agree with you that DD went there, wearing that ring, in the hopes of jogging Sluggy's memory - I just don't think he had gotten anything from him yet. I think DD had a pretty shrewd idea that Sluggy knew something, though. He could have gotten the altered memory from him anytime during the start of term.We don't know at what point that DD asked for the memory, and when Slughorn gave it...to be sure, DD never thought LV dead, not once since the Potter's were murdered. In fact, he had info that LV was in Albania...DD must have suspected a Horcrux...

This is why I said this: "Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP". That's what, a gap 15 or so years? DD had to have obtained that memory before the beginning of HBP, otherwise, he wouldn't have known to show the ring to Sluggy, to jog his memory.

We don't know at what point that DD asked for the memory, and when Slughorn gave it...to be sure, DD never thought LV dead, not once since the Potter's were murdered. In fact, he had info that LV was in Albania...DD must have suspected a Horcrux...

This is why I said this: "Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP". That's what, a gap 15 or so years? DD had to have obtained that memory before the beginning of HBP, otherwise, he wouldn't have known to show the ring to Sluggy, to jog his memory.

AND ... DD's hand was already blackened and Sluggy mentioned that DD was getting slow in his old age JUST like SS did at his confrontation with Cissy and Bella!!!

We don't know at what point that DD asked for the memory, and when Slughorn gave it...to be sure, DD never thought LV dead, not once since the Potter's were murdered. In fact, he had info that LV was in Albania...DD must have suspected a Horcrux...

This is why I said this: "Somewhere between the attack at Godric's Hollow, through the end of CoS, and the beginning of HBP". That's what, a gap 15 or so years? DD had to have obtained that memory before the beginning of HBP, otherwise, he wouldn't have known to show the ring to Sluggy, to jog his memory.
I don’t think this is proved
I think Sluggy left Hogwarts after the Potters deaths because Dumbledore started to ask him about Voldemort and how he had overcome mortal death. Then Dumbledore brought the ring the night he went for Sluggy to make him believe: See I already know about Voldemort Horcruxes so I won’t press you to become the traitor. But once Sluggy started at Hogwarts Dumbledore did press him and Sluggy gave him the faked memory. Dumbledore clearly said he only wanted the NUMBER of Horcruxes from Sluggy , so he knew about Horcruxes and can have destroyed the ring before he saw Sluggy’s tampered memory.

I was re-reading OOTP again and I found this which I didn't notice before.

When Umbridge is inspecting Trelawney she asks her how many years she has taught at Hogwarts, Trelawney says 16 years. When Umbridge asks Snape the same, he replies 14 years.
Now in OOTP didn't Trelawney tell Harry that Snape interrupted her interview with Dumbledore.

My confusion: Why did Snape join Hogwarts or was hired two years after the prophecy was made?? :huh: :huh:

POOR Sluggy ... gave LV the info .. or DID he? Actually, Sluggy didn't tell LV anything other than that making a Horcrux is pretty much an evil thing ... didn't confirm or deny the "7Part Soul Theory" so why exactly IS Sluggy feeling so guilty? I would suspect that DD has a portrait of someone who knows a portrait of someone who has a portrait of someone who knows where Sluggy lives ;)

Curious...DD found Sluggy didn't he at a Muggle house..that Sluggy was using..I'll bet illegally... but all the same..even Harry told him...If Dumbledore can find you...don't you think the DE and Voldermort can find you...running and hiding doesn't work..and THAT's why Sluggy came to Hogwarts..for protection..not to do DD any favors...he was asking for safe haven..and got it... he was dead meat sitting there where he was ..and no stuffed chair look -a - like was going to protect him from Voldermort. And I agree...the only thing he was guilty of and a need to feel guilty of what telling Voldermort about the Horcrux..but not HOW to do it...but the fact that it was mentioned in Voldermort's presence is like showing a kid a R rated movie when the parents don't know you're showing it in class...not a good thing...but I've told kids about a bar of soap I handled in 3rd grade that passed around by our teacher that had 30 bodies of Jewish people in it..and we didn't know until we passed it back...and it always startles the pajama's out of the kids...they didn't know the Nazi's did that kind of ****...so ya... maybe he was just mentioning that he knew about them...which is not strange as he's from Slytherin and they know a lot about the dark arts..and aren't afraid to use them...but DD must know how its' done..as he seems to be able to find them and destroy them...and he's a pretty good sluth... He knows "stuff" especially "stuff" Harry is thinking...but curiouser...why did he blanch when Harry told him that Harry knew a bout Snape's spying at the door during his talk with Tralawny...I THOUGHT he told Harry EVERYTHING.....obviously NOT...right?
I think I'd be kind of ticked with DD for leaving that PERTENENT bit of information out...and that stale story about THAT being the reason...DD trusted Snape because he was so sorry about what he had done..didn't settle too much with me...he saw through everybody else...there is more here...we don't know...guaranteed...that was just toooooooo easy...and Lupin said as much too..and Weasley was astonished about that also..as was McGonagal...no surprise...except..how good are they at Occupancy..DD knew Snape was good...but was he not (DD) better?

Another thought..DD's wearing ring in front of Slughorn...could it be it was DD's way of saying I've got something Voldermort doesn't..he's not invincible...we are going to win..and you'd better be on our side..cause you'll lose with Voldermort...I have one of his souls...in which case..Sluggy knows some of the Hortcruz's and is NOT telling..interesting...is he a deatheater want ta be?

Another thought..DD's wearing ring in front of Slughorn...could it be it was DD's way of saying I've got something Voldermort doesn't..he's not invincible...we are going to win..and you'd better be on our side..cause you'll lose with Voldermort...I have one of his souls...in which case..Sluggy knows some of the Hortcruz's and is NOT telling..interesting...is he a deatheater want ta be?

OHHH excellent point ... yeah ... i'm thinking that DD is pretty much saying "come out of hiding we'll protect you now ... that's what we do you know?"

OHHH excellent point ... yeah ... i'm thinking that DD is pretty much saying "come out of hiding we'll protect you now ... that's what we do you know?"

Yep that's what I thought. It's proof that DD, at that time, had the upper hand (no pun intended lol) - that he COULD fight LV and win. Maybe it was also a hint to Slughorn about that memory, about happier times, about what Slughorn had - essentially - caused, by telling LV about the Horcruxes... putting Slughorn in a vulnerable position through subtle intimidation.

I was re-reading OOTP again and I found this which I didn't notice before.

When Umbridge is inspecting Trelawney she asks her how many years she has taught at Hogwarts, Trelawney says 16 years. When Umbridge asks Snape the same, he replies 14 years.
Now in OOTP didn't Trelawney tell Harry that Snape interrupted her interview with Dumbledore.

My confusion: Why did Snape join Hogwarts or was hired two years after the prophecy was made??

Hmm.. I don't know exactly, but DD wouldn't have hired Snape when he was still a DE. Snape said that DD hired him when he was fresh out of the DE's.. so that would be just after LV was 'defeated' by Harry which - in OotP, would be about 14 years. Snape wanted to join Hogwarts - even though LV had been defeated - because he knew that he could fool DD into trusting him, and that DD would protect him fro Azkaban. He rightly said that if it wasn't for him teaching at Hogwarts he would have been sent to prison, so it was a wise move on his part. I can't understand why DD would hire him though, because after the death of Lily and James, DD would have known that Snape was the cause of their death (him having heard the prophecy which caused LV to act).. it's a bit foolish of DD.

I think Slughorn had remorse for even having the conversation about Horcruxes with LV ... I think DD would have assured him that LV would have done this thing nonetheless. DD doesn't let much slip by him. ;)

I don’t think this is proved
I think Sluggy left Hogwarts after the Potters deaths because Dumbledore started to ask him about Voldemort and how he had overcome mortal death. Then Dumbledore brought the ring the night he went for Sluggy to make him believe: See I already know about Voldemort Horcruxes so I won’t press you to become the traitor. But once Sluggy started at Hogwarts Dumbledore did press him and Sluggy gave him the faked memory. Dumbledore clearly said he only wanted the NUMBER of Horcruxes from Sluggy , so he knew about Horcruxes and can have destroyed the ring before he saw Sluggy’s tampered memory.This would be around the time Snape started teaching and the Potter's death...and why I gave a period of 15 or so years for DD to get the memory...15 years isn't a pinpoint accuracy.

I was re-reading OOTP again and I found this which I didn't notice before.

When Umbridge is inspecting Trelawney she asks her how many years she has taught at Hogwarts, Trelawney says 16 years. When Umbridge asks Snape the same, he replies 14 years.
Now in OOTP didn't Trelawney tell Harry that Snape interrupted her interview with Dumbledore.

My confusion: Why did Snape join Hogwarts or was hired two years after the prophecy was made?? :huh: :huh:

The timeline goes:

- December 1979 Dumbledore interviews Trelawney for the Divination teacher position, she makes the prophecy that Snape (who was not a teacher at the time) interrupts. Trelawney gets the job.
- Snape goes to Voldemort and tells him what he heard of the prophecy.
- 31st July 1980 Harry is born
- August/September 1981 Voldemort orders Snape to go and spy on Dumbledore at Hogwarts
- Snape gets the job of Potions teacher after expressing deep remorse and telling Dumbledore what he told Voldemort about the prophecy he overheard but claims not to know to whom it referred.
- Hallow e'en 1981 Lord Voldemort meets is match in Harry after killing his parents

This would be around the time Snape started teaching and the Potter's death...and why I gave a period of 15 or so years for DD to get the memory...15 years isn't a pinpoint accuracy.Well I did not say it was earlier, my point was that it could have been later. You wrote Dumbledore must have got the memory before HBP, I say he might as well have got it during HBP.

Well I did not say it was earlier, my point was that it could have been later. You wrote Dumbledore must have got the memory before HBP, I say he might as well have got it during HBP.:tu: That's exactly what I was trying to get at earlier. Do we have any evidence to show either way, when DD got that memory from Slughorn?

Well I did not say it was earlier, my point was that it could have been later. You wrote Dumbledore must have got the memory before HBP, I say he might as well have got it during HBP.My point being that Slughorn had been in hiding, from the DEs...he'd been in hiding for a year...yet DD knew exactly where to find Slughorn, even though he'd been changing his place of residence on a weekly basis. DD kept track of Slughorn, for a reason. He wanted that untarnished memory.

My point being that Slughorn had been in hiding, from the DEs...he'd been in hiding for a year...yet DD knew exactly where to find Slughorn, even though he'd been changing his place of residence on a weekly basis. DD kept track of Slughorn, for a reason. He wanted that untarnished memory.Or he wanted a memory not knowing that Sluggy would fiddle with it, it's both possible. And I don't think it makes much of a difference.

My point being that Slughorn had been in hiding, from the DEs...he'd been in hiding for a year...yet DD knew exactly where to find Slughorn, even though he'd been changing his place of residence on a weekly basis. DD kept track of Slughorn, for a reason. He wanted that untarnished memory.Good point! But it could also mean that it took him over a year to find him . . .

Good point! But it could also mean that it took him over a year to find him . . .DD said he had been hoping to fill Slughorn's old post..{though we didn't know it at the time, DD was talking about the Potions Master post}...which was only vacated by Snape at the end of last term...so that Snape could accept the post of DADA. That would be a period from the end of June until the night Harry was collected; Harry had spent about two weeks at the Dursley's, before DD had collected him. DD found the ring Horcrux"a few days before collecting Harry".

If Slughorn had been in hiding for a year, since learning of DD claims that LV was back, how did DD know where to find him? DD had been keeping track of Sluggy for some time, certainly more than the two weeks, and since before the vacated Potions post. The question, then, is why? DD wanted the untarnished memory.

OK - you've convinced me! :)

OK - you've convinced me! :) :clap: I wore you down with persistance!

It still doesn't answer when DD got that memory, but I'm pretty sure it was prior to the beginning of HBP.

:clap: I wore you down with persistance!:lol:

Keep in mind that DD has many resources within the walls of Hogwarts that he would be able to utilize to find people. If there were portraits of previous students ... that could go between Hogwarts and perhaps a portrait that Sluggy might have had ... it might be possible to find out where he was pretty easily.

DD said he had been hoping to fill Slughorn's old post..{though we didn't know it at the time, DD was talking about the Potions Master post}...which was only vacated by Snape at the end of last term...so that Snape could accept the post of DADA. That would be a period from the end of June until the night Harry was collected; Harry had spent about two weeks at the Dursley's, before DD had collected him. DD found the ring Horcrux"a few days before collecting Harry".

If Slughorn had been in hiding for a year, since learning of DD claims that LV was back, how did DD know where to find him? DD had been keeping track of Sluggy for some time, certainly more than the two weeks, and since before the vacated Potions post. The question, then, is why? DD wanted the untarnished memory.
We don't know if Dumbledore had not thought of reactivating Slughorn and making Snape DADA teacher rather then Umbridge the year before.
But I agree he collected everything worth knowing about Voldemort for years so of course he wanted to know what Slughorn knew about his former pupils plans

We don't know if Dumbledore had not thought of reactivating Slughorn and making Snape DADA teacher rather then Umbridge the year before.
I agree that we don't know. But I doubt it. Preventing the Mom sending him a teacher only could probably be done without Slughorn. The potions master job wasn't reputed as cursed. It should be possible to find a teacher for that one. But he choose to let Snape stay where he was and take the DaDa teacher they sent him.

Now the situation was a bit different. As already said, he needed Slughorn and also maybe had good reasons not to want another MoM spy at Hogwarts. Scrimgeour would likely find a much more efficient one than Umbridge.

Btw. I do suspect that Scrimgeour picked Shacklebolt for the muggle secretary job to get him out of the way. And maybe sent Tonks to Hogwarts for the same reason. To keep the Auror office free of Order members.

I agree that we don't know. But I doubt it. Preventing the Mom sending him a teacher only could probably be done without Slughorn. The potions master job wasn't reputed as cursed. It should be possible to find a teacher for that one. But he choose to let Snape stay where he was and take the DaDa teacher they sent him.

Now the situation was a bit different. As already said, he needed Slughorn and also maybe had good reasons not to want another MoM spy at Hogwarts. Scrimgeour would likely find a much more efficient one than Umbridge.

Btw. I do suspect that Scrimgeour picked Shacklebolt for the muggle secretary job to get him out of the way. And maybe sent Tonks to Hogwarts for the same reason. To keep the Auror office free of Order members.
All three of your points are very good . I like your third point and agree with you on it. How do you think he found out about Tonks And Shacklebolt ?
I feel that he must have his own loyal followers to keep eyes on any of the Aurors that don't seem to be "Company Men " that is loyal to him. What do you think ? :huh:

Btw. I do suspect that Scrimgeour picked Shacklebolt for the muggle secretary job to get him out of the way. And maybe sent Tonks to Hogwarts for the same reason. To keep the Auror office free of Order members.I agree on this one :) And he put Arthur Weasley on a job where he has to visit a lot of 'shops'. So he won't have much time to hang around inside the ministry either.

A completly diffrent thing:
Has anyone else been wondering about the watch, Ron got for his birthday?
(p. 365 UK ed.)
… holding up a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and tiny moving stars instead of hands. reminded me of Dumbledore’s watch, though that one has hands, 12 hands. And I wonder if this’ll give Ron a magical connection to his friends or family, or is it just to show, that the Weasleys now Mr. Weasley has been promoted and they only have two children to support, can effort an expensive (looking) watch ?

Yes, I wondered about this watch. It also seemed strange that Ron didn't act at all confused about it, like "Hey, how am I supposed to tell time with this thing?" Since he didn't have any questions, I would assume he knew how to read it... and yet Harry didn't seem to know how, otherwise he would know what the symbols were around the edges.
The similarities to Dumbledore's watch, and Mrs. Weasley's clock, are interesting. At the risk of making a really bad pun, it bears watching!

All three of your points are very good . I like your third point and agree with you on it. How do you think he found out about Tonks And Shacklebolt ?
I feel that he must have his own loyal followers to keep eyes on any of the Aurors that don't seem to be "Company Men " that is loyal to him. What do you think ? :huh:

Maybe the duel at the DOM, Tonks and Shacklebolt were both there. Arthur wasn't, but two of his kids were, doesn't take much to connect that up. Which, if you're looking for DD/Order-of Phoenix supporters, it wouldn't take too much thinking. And of course, Scrimgeour was head of the Aurors, before being promoted. Also in OoP, Tonks mentioned Scrimgeour's "been asking Kingsley and me funny questions..." Chapter 7, morning before Harry's hearing. Hope this helps.

Do you think the fact that Ginny and Ron were at the Ministry helped their dad with his advance in job and also his stature in the Ministry as worth more..had more value in that they were defenders of the Ministry in the light that Voldermort was there..and they were there with Harry to defend the Ministry...maybe even help get rid of Fudge who did not own up to the fact that Voldermort was back?

Do you think the fact that Ginny and Ron were at the Ministry helped their dad with his advance in job and also his stature in the Ministry as worth more..had more value in that they were defenders of the Ministry in the light that Voldermort was there..and they were there with Harry to defend the Ministry...maybe even help get rid of Fudge who did not own up to the fact that Voldermort was back?Scrimgeour wanted to get in Harry's good books, so promoting Arthur might have been done paratly with that in mind, since they know Harry spends most of the school holidays at the Burrow.

Well spotted about Scrimgeour relocated Order members away from the MoM.

Scrimgeour wanted to get in Harry's good books, so promoting Arthur might have been done paratly with that in mind, since they know Harry spends most of the school holidays at the Burrow.

Well spotted about Scrimgeour relocated Order members away from the MoM.
Is it possible he's just putting the best in strategic places..Kingsley is his secretary...and if something was going down...maybe he wanted one really strong guy in high places...but it looks like he's stationing them where he thinks they were needed..Tonks at Hogwarts..Lupin at Hogwarts...but Lupin was not with the ministry...he was with DD... :huh:

but Lupin was not with the ministry...he was with DD... No, we were only talking about the Order members who worked at the Ministry - all relocated within a fortnight of the DoM incident.

Wasn't Kingsley in the order, Tonks...who was not in the order? besides Umbridge...
Weasley stayed in the Ministry though...right?

Kingsley and Tonks were both in the order. Both were among the group sent to collect Harry at the beginning of OOTP. Tonks was the one who thought up the diversion to get the Dursley's out of the house. Umbridge was definitely not in the order.

No, we were only talking about the Order members who worked at the Ministry - all relocated within a fortnight of the DoM incident.
Yes it pretty clear that Scrimgeour cleaned house when he took over .As I said in an earlier post he wasn't sure that they were "Company Men" so he moved them away/around . I see Arthur's promotion as a way to get in with the Weasleys in order to have a connection to Harry . :huh:

Yes it pretty clear that Scrimgeour cleaned house when he took over .As I said in an earlier post he wasn't sure that they were "Company Men" so he moved them away/around . I see Arthur's promotion as a way to get in with the Weasleys in order to have a connection to Harry . :huh:Malfoy had MOVED out...to Askaban..so rounding up the rest must have been easy..was moving Moody out..or was he retired?

Malfoy had MOVED out...to Askaban..so rounding up the rest must have been easy..was moving Moody out..or was he retired?

Moody is retired.

I agree with the notion that Scrimgeour promoted Arthur solely to get on Harry's good side. We've seen a blatant use of the Weasely family by Scrimgeour to get to Harry--namely when he used Percy's appearance at Christmas to try to talk Harry into supporting him. I doubt Scrimgeour has any real like of Arthur--I think he just sees Arthur as a means to get to Harry.

Malfoy had MOVED out...to Askaban..so rounding up the rest must have been easy..was moving Moody out..or was he retired?Malfoy never was a MoM employee. He only used to visit Fudge with klinking pockets.

Yes, I wondered about this watch. It also seemed strange that Ron didn't act at all confused about it, like "Hey, how am I supposed to tell time with this thing?" Since he didn't have any questions, I would assume he knew how to read it... and yet Harry didn't seem to know how, otherwise he would know what the symbols were around the edges.
The similarities to Dumbledore's watch, and Mrs. Weasley's clock, are interesting. At the risk of making a really bad pun, it bears watching!

I've wondered about it, too. Posted it a long while back, but no one was interested at the time. Harry was distracted because he was trying to find Malfoy on the Marauder's Map, he barely gave the watch a glance, so I'm not surprised he didn't ask Ron about it. Then Ron got stupid with love potion desserts, so Harry would never have given it further thought. I was wondering if it might be an old family heirloom. And how do those watches (Ron's & Dumbledore's) work, anyway?? Hope we find out.

Yes I'm interested in how the watch works, I'm pretty sure it will be significant, why else mention it? Unless it just showed that the Weasleys are richer now?

Yes I'm interested in how the watch works, I'm pretty sure it will be significant, why else mention it? Unless it just showed that the Weasleys are richer now?


Maybe it was just shown so that time isn't wasted pondering Dumbledore's watch. The style is common.

Yes, I wondered about this watch. It also seemed strange that Ron didn't act at all confused about it, like "Hey, how am I supposed to tell time with this thing?" Since he didn't have any questions, I would assume he knew how to read it... and yet Harry didn't seem to know how, otherwise he would know what the symbols were around the edges.
The similarities to Dumbledore's watch, and Mrs. Weasley's clock, are interesting. At the risk of making a really bad pun, it bears watching!In GoF, OoP: The Weasley's clock was a 'grandfather clock' which stood in the corner of the living room: with nine golden hands--one for each family member--and no numbers, instead it had "Travelling, Home, School, Lost, Hospital, Prison, Work, Mortal Peril", and completely useless for telling time.
In HBP: It had nine hands, one for each family member, and usually hung on the sitting room wall [Instead of being a grandfather clock that stood in the corner], Mrs. Weasley was said to be carrying it around with her---like a portable "wall" clock.
In CoS: The Weasley's had another clock which hung in the kitchen, with no numbers and one hand, which would point to things like--'time to make tea' and 'time to feed the chickens', and 'you're late'.
In PS/SS, OoP: DD watch was a pocket watch with 12 hands, but no numbers; instead it had little planets moving around the edge.
In HBP: Ron's watch appeared to be a wrist watch (though it didn't say), it was "a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and 12 tiny moving stars instead of hands."

In GoF, OoP: The Weasley's clock was a 'grandfather clock' which stood in the corner of the living room: with nine golden hands--one for each family member--and no numbers, instead it had "Travelling, Home, School, Lost, Hospital, Prison, Work, Mortal Peril", and completely useless for telling time.
In HBP: It had nine hands, one for each family member, and usually hung on the sitting room wall [Instead of being a grandfather clock that stood in the corner], Mrs. Weasley was said to be carrying it around with her---like a portable "wall" clock.
In CoS: The Weasley's had another clock which hung in the kitchen, with no numbers and one hand, which would point to things like--'time to make tea' and 'time to feed the chickens', and 'you're late'.
In PS/SS, OoP: DD watch was a pocket watch with 12 hands, but no numbers; instead it had little planets moving around the edge.
In HBP: Ron's watch appeared to be a wrist watch (though it didn't say), it was "a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and 12 tiny moving stars instead of hands."

i'm sorry Widgit but with this post here ... I really DO see you as a teacher at hogwarts ... man ... you ARE the rockstar!!!

I don't know if this exactly fits the thread, but I thought it was an interesting detail, nonetheless. When the Prime Minister is remembering all his previous meetings with Fudge, he remembers Fudge telling him about importing 3 dragons and a sphinx for the Tri-wizard tournament. I just realized on my second read that he said 3, not 4, cuz at that time Harry's name hadn't come out of the Goblet. I wonder which dragon wasn't really supposed to be there?

I don't know if this exactly fits the thread, but I thought it was an interesting detail, nonetheless. When the Prime Minister is remembering all his previous meetings with Fudge, he remembers Fudge telling him about importing 3 dragons and a sphinx for the Tri-wizard tournament. I just realized on my second read that he said 3, not 4, cuz at that time Harry's name hadn't come out of the Goblet. I wonder which dragon wasn't really supposed to be there?Well, the four dragons were: The Chinese Fireball (the only Oriental dragon), The Hungarian Horntail, The Swedish Short-Snout, and The Common Welsh Green...I'd say that the one that didn't have to be imported was "The Common Welsh Green", as Britain does have unplottable Dragon Habitat.

As for the underage magic thing-I think this is one of those places where over analyzing gets JKR into trouble. Yes, we're told in HBP that the Ministry only detects the occurrence of magic, not its perpetrator, and that seems borne out by what we see with Dobby in COS. However, in OOTP, the Advance Guard use magic in the Dursley's home, and Harry isn't blamed for that. This leaves us with a couple options, none of which are great:

1) Ministry can only detect occurrence, not perpetrator, so the instance of magic in OOTP slipped under their radar (not likely, since they were looking for excuses to kick Harry out of Hogwarts).
2) Ministry can detect occurrence and perpetrator, contrary to Dumbledore's belief...but that is belied by Dobby in COS, and by the fact that they can't seem to track down LV by tracing his use of magic.
3) Ministry can detect occurrence of magic and presence of adult wizards, but not the adult wizards identities. This is contradicted when Tom Riddle uses magic to kill his father and grandparents, when, as far as we're told, Morfin is down in the cottage. Morfin was in the general area, but certainly not in the house.

In general, I go with the belief that prohibiting underage magic was a good rule for a plot device, but it shouldn't be over-analyzed as a REASON for things in the book-the times (like using lumos) when it doesn't get detected simply mean they weren't necessary for moving the plot along.

As for the underage magic thing-I think this is one of those places where over analyzing gets JKR into trouble. Yes, we're told in HBP that the Ministry only detects the occurrence of magic, not its perpetrator, and that seems borne out by what we see with Dobby in COS. However, in OOTP, the Advance Guard use magic in the Dursley's home, and Harry isn't blamed for that. This leaves us with a couple options, none of which are great:

1) Ministry can only detect occurrence, not perpetrator, so the instance of magic in OOTP slipped under their radar (not likely, since they were looking for excuses to kick Harry out of Hogwarts).
2) Ministry can detect occurrence and perpetrator, contrary to Dumbledore's belief...but that is belied by Dobby in COS, and by the fact that they can't seem to track down LV by tracing his use of magic.
3) Ministry can detect occurrence of magic and presence of adult wizards, but not the adult wizards identities. This is contradicted when Tom Riddle uses magic to kill his father and grandparents, when, as far as we're told, Morfin is down in the cottage. Morfin was in the general area, but certainly not in the house.

In general, I go with the belief that prohibiting underage magic was a good rule for a plot device, but it shouldn't be over-analyzed as a REASON for things in the book-the times (like using lumos) when it doesn't get detected simply mean they weren't necessary for moving the plot along.I agree - but I'll throw out the possibility that a. the advance guard know how to mask their magic use so they cannot be detected (useful for aurors at the very least I should think) or b. the ministry surveillance had been disabled by one of the Order.

As for the underage magic thing-I think this is one of those places where over analyzing gets JKR into trouble. Yes, we're told in HBP that the Ministry only detects the occurrence of magic, not its perpetrator, and that seems borne out by what we see with Dobby in COS. However, in OOTP, the Advance Guard use magic in the Dursley's home, and Harry isn't blamed for that. This leaves us with a couple options, none of which are great:
Not canon, but ... it may have been possible for Mad-Eye or Lupin or another member of the Advance Guard to have blanketed the area around Privet Drive so that no magic would be detected. A sort of Stealth spell.

Not canon, but ... it may have been possible for Mad-Eye or Lupin or another member of the Advance Guard to have blanketed the area around Privet Drive so that no magic would be detected. A sort of Stealth spell.


But wouldn't that spell be noticed and attributed to Harry too?

But wouldn't that spell be noticed and attributed to Harry too?
I knew somebody would ask that. Most likely, but I'm sure some spells aren't detectable by the Ministry, like those that make a location unplottable. The very nature of an unplottable charm or spell would make it undetectable.

If The Ministry is looking for underage magic, I think they'd be looking for much simpler spells, such as a hover charm.

I agree with Machiavelli's idea that one of the Order members (Kingsley or Tonks, perhaps) had probably disabled the surveillance around Privet Drive during that time.

They wouldn't need to disable the surveillance. Dumbledore would have given word to Mrs. Figg to send her cats back to her place when seeing the Order arrive.

Well, the four dragons were: The Chinese Fireball (the only Oriental dragon), The Hungarian Horntail, The Swedish Short-Snout, and The Common Welsh Green...I'd say that the one that didn't have to be imported was "The Common Welsh Green", as Britain does have unplottable Dragon Habitat.This may well be true, but at the time of this meeting, nobody suspected that there would be a fourth champion and they were only planning on using three dragons. Fudge probably didn't pop back to inform the PM about the fourth dragon, since it was just a formality and would involve admitting another disasterous event! Maybe that's why the fourth dragon was Welsh, to avoid having to inform the PM?

This may well be true, but at the time of this meeting, nobody suspected that there would be a fourth champion and they were only planning on using three dragons. Fudge probably didn't pop back to inform the PM about the fourth dragon, since it was just a formality and would involve admitting another disasterous event! Maybe that's why the fourth dragon was Welsh, to avoid having to inform the PM?True, I'd forgotten about that...it was right after the Quidditch World Cup, before school had even started that year. I'd agree, it was so the PM wouldn't have to be notified, and one species of dragon native to Britain, and so quite easy to obtain on short notice.

Yes I'm interested in how the watch works, I'm pretty sure it will be significant, why else mention it? Unless it just showed that the Weasleys are richer now?
I think that the watch just could be an example of the type of gifts a family member receives when he/she comes of age in the wizarding world.

I dunno if this has already been said, i couldnt read all 36 of the pages. But what is Godric's hollow?
Is it the place Harry's parents were killed or was it where Voldemort was last seen or was it the resting place or living place of Godric Gryffinder or does it have some other meaning?
A lot of questions, i know but its been confusing me so much

Godric's Hollow is the village where Lily and James were in hiding from Voldemort, and yes, where they were killed.

It seems rather strange for DD to trust a "Squib" to protect something as important as Harry ..and a drunk and theif..Mundungus with Harry...and a cat...come on! What was he thinking...he had his own "protection" there...but didn't he sense the dementors? Why wasn't someone on that...why didn't they find out who sent them..and why is Umbridge working at the ministry still after sending them after Harry...If this had been the muggle world..she would have been put in prison...and never let near any government job..but then..how do explain the mayor of DC..he's been taking drugs for years..got caught ..sent to prison..and back in DC as mayor...oh, well...another idea shot down...but really...are they dumb? and magical..

It seems rather strange for DD to trust a "Squib" to protect something as important as Harry ..and a drunk and theif..Mundungus with Harry...and a cat...come on! We all know Dumbledore's biggest flaw was a tendancy to ignore people's flaws. He trusted Mundungus, and Mundungus let him down.

Figgy had been in charge of keeping an eye on Harry since he'd been living with the Dursleys, because she's a squib. And the cat wasn't really a cat, he was a kneazle hybrid, much smarter than a cat. and why is Umbridge working at the ministry still after sending them after HarryI think that the reason JKR has made the ministry so corrupt and inefficient is so that Harry will have to finish off the war more or less on his own. If the magical world had a really organized, together government, it wouldn't make sense for a teenager to be on the front lines of the war.how do explain the mayor of DC..he's been taking drugs for years..got caught ..sent to prison..and back in DC as mayor...oh, well...another idea shot downDude, don't dis Marion Barry. Just don't. :no:

Sorry...I just don't think Mayor Barry is a mentor or someone to emulate...I can't see him going to schools and telling little kids to stay off drugs...it just doesn't go down too well.

but didn't he sense the dementors? Why wasn't someone on that...why didn't they find out who sent them
Dumbledore never said he could "sense" things hundreds of miles away from Hogwarts. And who do you run to when the government and most of its officials are corrupt? You can't do anything. The only one with the power to do something about it was Fudge, and he didn't want to admit that he might be wrong.
and why is Umbridge working at the ministry still after sending them after Harry...If this had been the muggle world..she would have been put in prison...and never let near any government job..
Again, the government itself is corrupt. And any government has the ability to turn corrupt; it doesn't have to be magical. So when you say "if this had been the muggle world," you should remember Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and so forth.

I don't think the MoM ever knew that it was Umbridge who sent the dementors to Little Whinging.
She confessed that to Harry, but did anybody else know? Even if she planned it together with Fudge, which I doubt she did, why should she let Scrimgeour know about it?

I don't think the MoM ever knew that it was Umbridge who sent the dementors to Little Whinging.
She confessed that to Harry, but did anybody else know? Even if she planned it together with Fudge, which I doubt she did, why should she let Scrimgeour know about it?
You're right, Umbridge would never have shared that information. She'd only reveal that to the Ministry if she thought there was clearly something she could gain by it, and that incident doesn't qualify.

*Deja Vu*

Didn't Dumbledore insinuate to Fudge that it was the Ministry (or someone inside the Ministry) who sent the Dementors? Fudge shot it down and never spoke of it again. Some might argue that by not investigating it and just discarding the idea completely, Fudge was doing something worse than knowing who did it and keeping them on staff.

What were we talking about? Oh yes.

So by turning a blind and apathetic eye, Fudge allows corruption to enter his government without retaliation.

*Deja Vu*

Didn't Dumbledore insinuate to Fudge that it was the Ministry (or someone inside the Ministry) who sent the Dementors? Fudge shot it down and never spoke of it again. Some might argue that by not investigating it and just discarding the idea completely, Fudge was doing something worse than knowing who did it and keeping them on staff.

What were we talking about? Oh yes.

So by turning a blind and apathetic eye, Fudge allows corruption to enter his government without retaliation.
it was Umbridge

*Deja Vu*

Didn't Dumbledore insinuate to Fudge that it was the Ministry (or someone inside the Ministry) who sent the Dementors? Fudge shot it down and never spoke of it again.

So by turning a blind and apathetic eye, Fudge allows corruption to enter his government without retaliation.

Also, Amelia Bones heard the accusation, and knew what it meant...could she have investigated....and ended up dead?

AND Fudge suddenly became super paranoid about DD...subject to a "suspicion spell" or potion?

Umbridge, not formerly a DE, now evil....

Percy...ignores his own mother....

There are evil forces at work in the Ministry...beyond mere gold & corruption...

Umbridge is still working for the Ministry, but I don't think we know what position she has now. They could have shuffled her into a minor position so they could keep an eye on her. They wouldn't want her blabbing all the Ministry secrets she must know.

I think Scrim must know what she did because he didn't bat an eye when Harry showed him the scars on his hand from Umbridge's detention.

Umbridge is still working for the Ministry, but I don't think we know what position she has now. They could have shuffled her into a minor position so they could keep an eye on her. They wouldn't want her blabbing all the Ministry secrets she must know.

I think Scrim must know what she did because he didn't bat an eye when Harry showed him the scars on his hand from Umbridge's detention.

Yes, but didn't Umbridge, while in her office with Fudge, Knightbridge, McGonagal, Harry, Ron, Hermonie, Ginny, that girl, Marrietta, Draco, one other Slytherin was in the room when she confessed to have sent the dementor. This was the time when she went with Harry and Hermonie into the forest...in OotP.

Yes, but didn't Umbridge, while in her office with Fudge, Knightbridge, McGonagal, Harry, Ron, Hermonie, Ginny, that girl, Marrietta, Draco, one other Slytherin was in the room when she confessed to have sent the dementor. This was the time when she went with Harry and Hermonie into the forest...in OotP.
Yes she did admit to it, but I think you've got two different times mixed up. Umbridge was in her office with the inquisitorial squad who caught Harry, Ron, Hermione, Luna, Ginny and Neville helping Harry trying to contact Sirius in Umbridge's fire. The beginning of the scene you describe was in Dumbledore's office just before he escaped.

None of the inquisitorial squad would have squealed on Umbridge since they were on her side. I don't know about the kids, but even if they did report her, Fudge had more on his mind than Umbridge's fate. He was more concerned with himself. Scrim is more concerned with the stability of the Ministry than punishing one person. Umbridge's actions, if they became public, would make the Ministry look even worse.

Speaking of Dumbledore's Office, in OOP, in DD's office, when there is the big confrontation between the ministry and DD, Harry feels something brush against his side, but looks down & nothing is there...

I've been thinking about this a lot. Was there something invisible in the room?

Also, I believe Kingsley is a ministry spy in the order. In this scene he talks to Umbridge "be careful" or something...when she was losing it...about to reveal too much?

Umbridge's actions, if they became public, would make the Ministry look even worse.:tu: Really good point! Neither Fudge nor Scrimgeour have anything to gain by publicising Umbridge's actions, as punishing her would undoubtedly do.
in DD's office, when there is the big confrontation between the ministry and DD, Harry feels something brush against his side, but looks down & nothing is there...

I've been thinking about this a lot. Was there something invisible in the room?
I believe this is where Harry is feeling Shaklebolt's 'obliviating' spell brush by him on it's way to Marietta. DD mentions his 'good work' in modifying her memory on the sly like that, I believe. :)

:tu: I believe this is where Harry is feeling Shaklebolt's 'obliviating' spell brush by him on it's way to Marietta.

Yes, I know that's what Harry thinks is true...but Harry's knowledge of magic is still at 4th year level...since when do you FEEL a spell ??? Physically I mean... That's why it sticks out in my mind.

Yes, I know that's what Harry thinks is true...but Harry's knowledge of magic is still at 4th year level...since when do you FEEL a spell ??? Physically I mean... That's why it sticks out in my mind.Sorry, I don't have the books with me - but since we see that Marietta is affected by the spell, and DD as much as acknowledges the spell, isn't it fair to assume that it was the spell Harry felt?

I think you do 'feel' spells. In GOF, Harry describes feeling the stunners pass over their heads, when they're surrounded by Ministry wizards trying to catch who sent up the Dark Mark in the sky.

Also in GOF - when Draco just misses Harry with a spell as Harry is turning away - Harry feels something 'hot' on his cheek. (This is the scene right before Fake!Moody turns Draco into a ferret).

At the end of HBP, when Snape and Harry are confronting each other, Harry feels a 'whiplike' sensation on his face.

Speaking of Dumbledore's Office, in OOP, in DD's office, when there is the big confrontation between the ministry and DD, Harry feels something brush against his side, but looks down & nothing is there...

I've been thinking about this a lot. Was there something invisible in the room?

Also, I believe Kingsley is a ministry spy in the order. In this scene he talks to Umbridge "be careful" or something...when she was losing it...about to reveal too much?


Kingsly erased that girl, Marretta's memory about the DA's meetings so that when Fudge and Umbridge asked her for information...she was unable to answer..right...and the thing was an unspoken spell...DD was aware of it...and later so was Harry...because of the expression on her face..she KNEW the answer but was suddenly without the answers....

and you're right....Umbridge was in her office with her "supporters from Hogwarts..." but so was Filch...right...and they could put his memory into the pensive couldn't she? Snape wasn't there yet with the truth serium...and so it was just Filch. right?

[SPOILER] Hello all, I was just wondering now that DUmbuldores dead, his portrait is in the office. Harry was upset that he would bever be able to speak to dumbledore agian but from previous experiances *** portriats are thinking and for all intents and pruposes alive. They can drink wine (refer to Fat Lady getting drunk on monk wine) they can help the head master and are essentially able to do anythgin within the bounds of that portrait world so y cant harry just go and talk to dumbledore in the portrait becasue all the other head masters still seem to have their memories and such. Cant harry just talk about the horcuruxs etc with dumbledore?

Maybe they only help the headmaster, tho' phineus spoke to Harry.

That's a good point. Somehow i doubt it'll happen much, if at all, though because it kind of cheapens Dumbledore's death. It might be in book seven every once in a while though, and it might make Harry stay at Hogwarts for his seventh year.

[SPOILER] Hello all, I was just wondering now that DUmbuldores dead, his portrait is in the office. Harry was upset that he would bever be able to speak to dumbledore agian but from previous experiances *** portriats are thinking and for all intents and pruposes alive. They can drink wine (refer to Fat Lady getting drunk on monk wine) they can help the head master and are essentially able to do anythgin within the bounds of that portrait world so y cant harry just go and talk to dumbledore in the portrait becasue all the other head masters still seem to have their memories and such. Cant harry just talk about the horcuruxs etc with dumbledore?JK has specifically stated that the portraits aren't really that helpful:

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death....from here (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80)...

The portraits within the Headmaster's office are there to aid the current Headmaster/Headmistress of Hogwarts. Perhaps DD would be able to leave his portrait, and may do so in the next book, to aid Harry.

We'll have to wait and see.

Also, I believe Kingsley is a ministry spy in the order. In this scene he talks to Umbridge "be careful" or something...when she was losing it...about to reveal too much?He told her to calm herself. "You don't want to get yourself in trouble now." I've always believed he said it to prevent her from further attempts to get the truth out of Marietta. If Kingsley was loyal to Umbridge he wouldn't have modified Marietta's memory in the first place, would he?

And about Umbridges confession. Some members of the inquisitorial Squad were present, but Snape had already left and Filch doesn't seem to have been there. It wasn't very risky. In the unlikely event that those Slytherins who thought it served Harry right anyway, got the idea to report her Fudge wouldn't believe them.

He told her to calm herself. "You don't want to get yourself in trouble now." I've always believed he said it to prevent her from further attempts to get the truth out of Marietta. If Kingsley was loyal to Umbridge he wouldn't have modified Marietta's memory in the first place, would he?

And about Umbridges confession. Some members of the inquisitorial Squad were present, but Snape had already left and Filch doesn't seem to have been there. It wasn't very risky. In the unlikely event that those Slytherins who thought it served Harry right anyway, got the idea to report her Fudge wouldn't believe them.
Since Pensives don't lie...why not use it for an inquisition for Umbridge...she likes meetings in high places..this time..Harry sits on top and she's in the hot seat...fun! :huh:

Personally I think the luck potion was absolutely ridiculous. It opens up too many doors! My question is why would JK even put something like that into the book?

I mean...Harry could just decide to down some and then go out and kill Voldemort and find all the Horcruxes (it I spelt that right). Harry could down it and win every Quidditch game on earth. The whole Order of the Phoenix could take some and kill all the death eaters they want. In the 5th book, Dumbledore could have taken some and convinced everyone to believe him and Harry despite the Ministry's mudslinging...Lupin could find an antidote to his 'illness'...Parents could buy thier kids the stuff and they could pass all thier tests in all thier classes and get perfect O.W.L.S...everyone could just become flithly rich and everyone would always be happy.

The list goes on and on...the ideas are really endless. I think it was pointless and leads too many open-ended possibilities and doubt.

ooh, I never thought about that... perhaps there are special rules to go with it. Jo wuoldn't make THAT big of a mistake. Well it takes 6 months to brew and it's probably hard brew so i'm guessing that it's not made very often. LV has probably thought of this idea already and made a potion that deflicts the use of FF

ooh, I never thought about that... perhaps there are special rules to go with it. Jo wuoldn't make THAT big of a mistake. Well it takes 6 months to brew and it's probably hard brew so i'm guessing that it's not made very often. LV has probably thought of this idea already and made a potion that deflicts the use of FF

And it's illegal to use for exams and sporting events. And we don't know what the ingreadiants are, maybe they're hard to get? And then there are the risks of long-term use; recklessness ect.

Did anyone else notice that Grawp was at the furneral ? I thought that he was a big secret?, and that Hagrid would get into trouble for bringing him back to Britain ?. Well now everyone knows that there is a giant at Hogwarts .So I wonder what or if anything will be said or done about this ?. Got any Ideas ?. :huh:

Did anyone else notice that Grawp was at the furneral ? I thought that he was a big secret?, and that Hagrid would get into trouble for bringing him back to Britain ?. Well now everyone knows that there is a giant at Hogwarts .So I wonder what or if anything will be said or done about this ?. Got any Ideas ?. :huh:

Good point. I noticed he was at the funeral but didn't consider the ramifications. I'm not sure I understood the whole Grawp storyline at all :huh: All I can figure is that he'll somehow fit into Book 7.

Did anyone else notice that Grawp was at the furneral ? I thought that he was a big secret?, and that Hagrid would get into trouble for bringing him back to Britain ?. Well now everyone knows that there is a giant at Hogwarts .So I wonder what or if anything will be said or done about this ?. Got any Ideas ?. :huh:
I think that it symbolizes that little things like that are the least of everyone's worries, if the Greatest Sorcerer that ever lived has been killed. I also think that it shows that with some patience and understanding ... Giants and Wizards can live together quite amicably!!!!

Personally I think the luck potion was absolutely ridiculous. It opens up too many doors! My question is why would JK even put something like that into the book?

I mean...Harry could just decide to down some and then go out and kill Voldemort and find all the Horcruxes (it I spelt that right). Harry could down it and win every Quidditch game on earth. The whole Order of the Phoenix could take some and kill all the death eaters they want. In the 5th book, Dumbledore could have taken some and convinced everyone to believe him and Harry despite the Ministry's mudslinging...Lupin could find an antidote to his 'illness'...Parents could buy thier kids the stuff and they could pass all thier tests in all thier classes and get perfect O.W.L.S...everyone could just become flithly rich and everyone would always be happy.

The list goes on and on...the ideas are really endless. I think it was pointless and leads too many open-ended possibilities and doubt.

I don't think felix automatically does everything for you, it just helps. Like Hermoine said, even with it Harry would not have been able to figure out what Malfoy was doing in the room of requirement. But still, you're right. Now that we know this potion exists, there are many times that characters probably should use it but don't. I've felt the same way since we were introduced to time-travel. Why did no DE ever go back to before that night at the Potter's? They certainly wouldn't have cared that it was illeagal! My conclusion is that there is no good answer. We have to acknowladge that these books are novels, and with books so complex there are destined to be thing that don't quite work. So, we must accept that these things are unrealistic and just enjoy the books and all the more relevant questions that surround them

I don't think felix automatically does everything for you, it just helps. Like Hermoine said, even with it Harry would not have been able to figure out what Malfoy was doing in the room of requirement. But still, you're right. Now that we know this potion exists, there are many times that characters probably should use it but don't. I've felt the same way since we were introduced to time-travel. Why did no DE ever go back to before that night at the Potter's? They certainly wouldn't have cared that it was illeagal! My conclusion is that there is no good answer. We have to acknowladge that these books are novels, and with books so complex there are destined to be thing that don't quite work. So, we must accept that these things are unrealistic and just enjoy the books and all the more relevant questions that surround them

Felix Felicus
can become additive with major side effects where others will know you are taking the potion as stated by Slughorn.

Time Travel
The only DE who could go back would be Snape as he was the only one who heard the prophecy to know what would happen! Any other DE would be questioned or killed because they weren't there when the prophecy was spoken. Voldemort wouldn't believe anybody else. He believed it was Harry Potter and didn't want Harry growing up. If one of the Order went back, they wouldn't know if somebody worse would show up to take his place. Better to the devil you know than the devil you don't know!

Felix Felicus
can become additive with major side effects where others will know you are taking the potion as stated by Slughorn.
1. It also loses strength if you use it too much whilst your body builds up an immunity.
2. It is banned in sports and social situations, and I'm sure it's safe to say that there has to be some sort of test they administer to players, etc.
3. I think it was Dumbledore who said Felix can only help you do what you would have been able to do already, on your own, except in a faster and easier way.
4. Like Hermione said, luck can only get you so far. It cannot save your life everytime, and after a while it always runs out.
5. Likewise, it can work the other way; as a placebo. Ron thought he had drunk some of it and he performed wonderfully as Keeper, but in reality he didn't drink any of it at all. It was all in his head.

I personally think that JKR introduced Felix because she wanted to insinuate something in her books: if you believe in something so heartily, then it can become reality. Like Ron believed he could do anything, so he gave it his best shot and did it.

I also don't really know if Felix isn't totally a placebo. It might be.

As for time travel, it is my understanding that it was very hard to get ahold of a timeturner, and even if you did it only works in intervals of hours. But it doesn't really matter because now all of them are destroyed. There might be different kinds of time travel, but since JKR said there will be no more timetraveling in her books, the possibility of other magical time devices surviving in the Potterverse is very rare.

Post #91I was a little confused in the House of Gaunt chapter. Marvolo shows Ogden the ring and says it has the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone. Have we heard of Peverell before?

And then he says the locket belonged to Salazar Slytherin. Isn't a locket usually worn by a female?

Wouldn't it make more sense for the ring to have belonged to Slytherin especially since the ring on the cover looks like it has a big S on it?

Post #102I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a Peverell in the books, and I can't so far find any famous muggle Peverells who might shed light on this. Something to watch out for in book 7, I suspect. "The Peverell coat of arms" is said as though it's a very important thing: could the Peverells be the family Slytherin was descended from?

Post #113Peverell coat of arms:

http://www.heraldry.ws/coatsofarms/peverell.gifhttp://www.heraldry.ws/coatsofarms/peverell.gif

http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpghttp://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpg

Post #116Thanks. Interesting that the second one has a lion rampant.

I wonder if Salazar married a Peverell or if his mother was a Peverell.

Post #130[QUOTE=Scarlet Tears]Just to add to the images of Peverell coats of arms, I found two more, as well as a Peavey one, with Peavey being the name from which Peverell was derived. All appear to have a lion on them (though they aren't clearly drawn):
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...e/Peverell.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...oat_of_arms.jpg

The phrase "Deo Non Fortuna," which appears on each of these images, means "through God, not luck." Both the lion and the motto on the Peverell coat of arms do not seem to apply to the Slytherin descendents we have met so far, but I guess you never know.

Post #156Anyone else find it interesting that "Peavey" is the name from which Peverell is derived and that Hogwart's resident poltergeist is named "Peeves"? Jo said in an interview that Peeves can't be gotten rid of (not even by Dumbledore)... he's like plumbing problems in an old house that aren't worth tearing down the whole place to fix.

Could Peeves be a "gift" to Hogwarts from Salazar Slytherin upon his leaving the school? :whistle: RE: Post #116 - I also wondered if Salazar had married a Peverell. I had not considered it might have been his own mother's maiden name. Good idea.

RE: #156 - Oh piky, I like the way you think! That sounds exactly like something Jo would do!!! :agree:

A new addition from me: I checked my baby name book just for the heck of it, not thinking I'd find anything. Sooo..... of course I did. "Peverell" is French (Jo taught French!) for "piper." Anyone make anything of that? I wondered if it might eventually tie in with the old saying, " If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper" or maybe have something to do with the story of the Pied Piper of Hamlin leading away all the town's children. Any and all thoughts on "Peverell" are welcome. :)

A new addition from me: I checked my baby name book just for the heck of it, not thinking I'd find anything. Sooo..... of course I did. "Peverell" is French (Jo taught French!) for "piper." Anyone make anything of that? I wondered if it might eventually tie in with the old saying, " If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper" or maybe have something to do with the story of the Pied Piper of Hamlin leading away all the town's children. Any and all thoughts on "Peverell" are welcome. :)Several ideas pop to mind...of course "Pied Piper" being one of them. But the one that really struck me was playing pipes like a snake charmers; of course, LV is a great charmer, and a Parselmouth to boot.

Did a search of this thread but found nothing on this. At some point, I think as a signature on a party invitation, we see that Slughorn's full initials are "H.E.F. Slughorn." We do not ever learn what the "E" and the "F" stand for. Has anyone found any info from "an inside source" or heard any comment from JKR on what they stand for???

My only idea is that they might be to spell out "Hef," as in the nickname of Hugh Hefner, founder of "Playboy" magazine. While I find this possibility unlikely, Hefner does like fine wine, cigars, velvet smoking jackets, other luxury items and surrounding himself with the rich and famous. All that is quite similar to Slughorn's character.

Any ideas, anyone?



Several ideas pop to mind...of course "Pied Piper" being one of them. But the one that really struck me was playing pipes like a snake charmers; of course, LV is a great charmer, and a Parselmouth to boot.
Wow, a reply already! And a good one, too! Salazar was also a parselmouth, which means he had the snake charmer ability, too. Perhaps he got that through his mother's family, the Peverells? And they got their name because of a family gene for parseltongue? I find it less likely he would just happen to find and marry a Peverell; it would be too coincidental with him already being a parselmouth. Thanks kingwidgit!


EDIT: Anyone with ideas please owl me. Since I wrote this there are several more pages to the thread and I don't have time to scan every time even more show up. Thanks! :)

As for time travel, it is my understanding that it was very hard to get ahold of a timeturner, and even if you did it only works in intervals of hours. But it doesn't really matter because now all of them are destroyed. There might be different kinds of time travel, but since JKR said there will be no more timetraveling in her books, the possibility of other magical time devices surviving in the Potterverse is very rare.

When I meant Time-Travel, I meant hours after the events took place (Tom going after Harry) back in Philosopher's Stone when Harry is brought to the Dursley's.

When I meant Time-Travel, I meant hours after the events took place (Tom going after Harry) back in Philosopher's Stone when Harry is brought to the Dursley's.
Yuss, but now that I think of it, I can't recall something big that happened when anyone who could really change it knew about it in less than a day (how convenient). Er, I have to make myself clearer... All the big things that happened took a long time for people to really know about; for instance, Harry the baby was left in Godric's Hollow for a day or so before Hagrid rescued him. Or, when Harry came back from rescuing the Sorcerer's Stone, the people of Hogwarts knew about it yes, but it wasn't widespread until a lot later. So everyone powerful enough to go back and try to change something never did because a.) they wanted it that way, b.) they were waiting for a better chance to screw Harry's life up, or c.) they either didn't know about it or had no way of time travel.

But yes, I get what you're saying. But since there is just one timeline and not several, the people immediately effected (by whatever change someone from the future was trying to make) would realize something was odd, i.e. Fudge/Macnair/Hagrid at Buckbeak's execution. Furthermore, since "awful things happen to wizards who meddle with time," it can be said that there WERE people who tried to time travel but got extremely messed up in the head, or whatever happens. So that means it's extremely dangerous and risky to do, and not at all encouraged. So any SMART folk wouldn't try to do it, unless they simply HAD to, like Harry and Hermione did--it just highlights Hermione's wits that they weren't caught (Harry would have messed it up if he were alone). So odds are, the people actually crazy or foolish enough to do it messed themselves and their own situations up.

...Maybe I should start a Rambling thread, lol.

Time Travel
The only DE who could go back would be Snape as he was the only one who heard the prophecy to know what would happen! Any other DE would be questioned or killed because they weren't there when the prophecy was spoken. Voldemort wouldn't believe anybody else. He believed it was Harry Potter and didn't want Harry growing up. If one of the Order went back, they wouldn't know if somebody worse would show up to take his place. Better to the devil you know than the devil you don't know!

You wouldn't need to know the contents of the prophecy to know that going to the Potter's led to LV's fall. If a DE went back in time to tell him not to go to the the Potter's and explained the outcome, do you really think he would be so confident enough that they lied to risk it? It seems that someone would have been able to convince him.

This isn't a HBP question, but i can't find the 'little questions answered' thread from before HBP so please help me. HPLexington has fail me and i need to know just one thing to try to put a little theory together. Does anyone know what Binns was teaching in GoF or what pages/chapter that has History of Magic classes?!?!?!?!?
thankies to whoever answers!

You wouldn't need to know the contents of the prophecy to know that going to the Potter's led to LV's fall. If a DE went back in time to tell him not to go to the the Potter's and explained the outcome, do you really think he would be so confident enough that they lied to risk it? It seems that someone would have been able to convince him.
Oh, yeah. I guess she doesn't use the Time Turners more since it would ruin the books lol.

But time travel is complicated stuff, we saw that in PoA. Remember how hard it was for Harry and Hermione to avoid themselves? It takes a lot planning and skill, which Herimione had from using it all year (and from just being a smart witch!). The DE might have been scared to warn LV already, and the difficulty of traveling back to do it would have made the action even less appetizing. Finally, it would be hard for them to get their hands on a time turner.

But I agree, even if not for that circumstance, that Felix and Time Turners seem sorta like cheating.

This isn't a HBP question, but i can't find the 'little questions answered' thread from before HBP so please help me. HPLexington has fail me and i need to know just one thing to try to put a little theory together. Does anyone know what Binns was teaching in GoF or what pages/chapter that has History of Magic classes?!?!?!?!?
thankies to whoever answers!
I'm rereading GoF right now, I don't remember the chapter (sorry!) but I know he's teaching Goblin rebellions. Hope that helps!

thank you! thank you! thank you! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

y is she referd a phelgm or whatever?

y is she referd a phelgm or whatever?

Ginny isn't a big fan of Fluer so she thought up a rude name to call Fluer, but since it's a childrens book it couldn't be too rude.

time travel is complicated stuff, we saw that in PoA.

But I agree, even if not for that circumstance, that Felix and Time Turners seem sorta like cheating.




Yeah, for time turners Hermione referred to the problem of a past self running into a future self and thinking it's dark magic and attacking himself.....sounds like a great way to get rid of Voldie - if you can swing it....he may have to kill himself.

Re Felix....well everyone knows JK likes a brew or two....I think you have to deal with a potion that makes everything "work for you" in small amounts but is toxic in large quantities.... the abusable substances ....that's one of the challenges of childhood to adulthood...and these books are about growing up....thank goodness I finally read them.

Questions stuck in my mind are:

1. What brushed against Harry in DD's office at the end of OOP?

2. Why did Snape the good (as I believe he is) not drink or eat anything at 12 Grimmauld but share some elf-wine at Spinner's End? Who would drink with a potions master one didn't really trust?

3. Why did TR & DD drink when Voldie came for the DADA job? Everyone was constantly drinking with each other in that book.

4. Is there an entry to something associated with the DADA job.

5. Why didn't DD take a beozar before he drank the potion in the cave?

6. Why didn't DD's hand heal?

7. Why did Harry get Snape's Potions book?

8. Do they have a super version of polyjuice - that lasts longer than an hour?

9. Which other animagus' are there....lots of bugs in hair in the books

10. Is Voldemort a Metamorphagus? (uncle is called 'Morfin')

11. How did Neville end up with the singed pants that he had to change in HBP

12. How does Voldemort IMPLANT memories into people - into Harry for MOM dream OOP - with present Sirius suffering - who Voldie had never seen!!! - and into Morfin & Hokey for murder memories...?

12 questions seems enough. 12 drinks of the potion in the cave. Each a different murder memory? 12 Grimmauld...Is that 13 questions?

Anyone else notice that DD's coffin burst into flames with spirals - like Amortencia - the love potion?

[B]Questions stuck in my mind are:[/B
1. What brushed against Harry in DD's office at the end of OOP?

3. Why did TR & DD drink when Voldie came for the DADA job? Everyone was constantly drinking with each other in that book.

7. Why did Harry get Snape's Potions book?1. I can't remember anything of that kind at the end of the book. In chapter 27 it was the spell with which Kingsley modified Marietta's memory.
3. It is common politness to offer something to a guest, isn't it?
7. Snape obviously kept his book in that cupboard when he was potions teacher and forgot to remove it when he became DADA reacher.

Questions stuck in my mind are:

1. What brushed against Harry in DD's office at the end of OOP?I'll take a whack at a couple of them!

It was the spell that Kingsley had performed to modify Marietta's memory.As Dumbledore spoke, Harry heard a rustle behind him and rather thought Kingsley whispered something. He could have sworn too that he felt something brush against his side, a gentle something like a draft or bird wings, but looking down he saw nothing there.
----
A sudden suspicion connected to Kingsley's whisper and the thing he had felt shoot past him sprang into Harry's mind.
----
"He was remarkably quick on the uptake, modifying Miss Edgecombe's memory like that while everyone was looking the other way---"We've seen spells when cast by DD that actually made Harry's hair stand on end...what he felt brush against him that night was the spell that Kingsley had cast.
2. Why did Snape the good (as I believe he is) not drink or eat anything at 12 Grimmauld but share some elf-wine at Spinner's End? Who would drink with a potions master one didn't really trust?A double agent? I don't think he ate at 12 Grimmauld because he didn't want to stay one more minute in the presence of the man he loathed--'Sirius'.
3. Why did TR & DD drink when Voldie came for the DADA job? Everyone was constantly drinking with each other in that book.Wine...possibly elf-made? Everyone was drinking more in this book...I think it was meant to show a maturing of the characters...instead of butterbeer, give them aged mead, wine, etc.

7. Snape obviously kept his book in that cupboard when he was potions teacher and forgot to remove it when he became DADA reacher.

Actually, that's something that has always bugged me. To this day, I haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation. Why would Snape put his potions book in the cabinet to begin with? It had obviously been in disuse for many years and I doubt he went back to use it as reference. Why didn't he leave it back in Spinner's end, amongst the old and dusty bookshelves? I know there's a theory floating around that the book was purposely planted there, but I'm not sure I buy that.

Could it have been Dumbledore?

11. How did Neville end up with the singed pants that he had to change in HBP


Peeves. Nick had told Harry to take a different route to avoid Peeves.

Could it have been Dumbledore?
But why would DD want to plant that there? And how could he be sure who it would reach. Couldn't it just as easily have been Ron's? And surely he wouldn't have wanted that. Maybe Snape hadn't ever realized it was left there, so he never bothered to move it...just left it all dusty in the cabinet.

Maybe Snape hadn't ever realized it was left there, so he never bothered to move it...just left it all dusty in the cabinet.
There are a lot of mysteries surrounding that potions book. If it belonged to Snape (either handed down by his mother or bought second-hand), why wouldn't he have taken it with him when he left school? There was a time period between when he left school and when he returned as a teacher. All his notes seem too important for him just to have forgotten it.

If he used the notes in the book as part of his lesson plan, wouldn't he have kept it safely in his desk, not thrown in with other books in a cupboard?

If Snape was loaned the book because he couldn't afford books at all, why would he write in the margins of a book he knew he had to return? Why wouldn't he make his own notes in a separate notepad?

That may be a question that will never be answered.

Snape's book was a great Potions resource, I suspect he kept it so he could refer to the knowledge he'd recorded in it. As he was no longer teaching Potions (and excited about finally getting to teach DADA) he probably forgot that it was in the cupboard.

There are a lot of mysteries surrounding that potions book. If it belonged to Snape (either handed down by his mother or bought second-hand), why wouldn't he have taken it with him when he left school? There was a time period between when he left school and when he returned as a teacher. All his notes seem too important for him just to have forgotten it.

If he used the notes in the book as part of his lesson plan, wouldn't he have kept it safely in his desk, not thrown in with other books in a cupboard?

If Snape was loaned the book because he couldn't afford books at all, why would he write in the margins of a book he knew he had to return? Why wouldn't he make his own notes in a separate notepad?

That may be a question that will never be answered.

It could be that Snape used the book earlier on, when he first started teaching Potions, to help him make lesson plans, and did keep it in his desk or office. By the time book 6 rolled around, maybe he didn't need the notes much anymore, and so didn't bother to get the book and bring it with him to his new office. Then, when Slughorn moved in, he might have seen the book, thought it was just an extra textbook, and put it away with the other spares.

A double agent? I don't think he ate at 12 Grimmauld because he didn't want to stay one more minute in the presence of the man he loathed--'Sirius'.
Wine...possibly elf-made? Everyone was drinking more in this book...I think it was meant to show a maturing of the characters...instead of butterbeer, give them aged mead, wine, etc.
You don't accept hospitatily at the house of someone you loathe..it's a sign of disrespect and contempt...does he feel that way about Hogwarts...although we do see him drinking during SS in the movie....but overall...he doesn't accept Sirius's hospitality and hates Sirius..he just goes there cause that is where the OOTP meets.

It could be that Snape used the book earlier on, when he first started teaching Potions, to help him make lesson plans, and did keep it in his desk or office. By the time book 6 rolled around, maybe he didn't need the notes much anymore, and so didn't bother to get the book and bring it with him to his new office. Then, when Slughorn moved in, he might have seen the book, thought it was just an extra textbook, and put it away with the other spares.
This seems logical, but wouldn't it also be logical for Snape to pack up his desk? Why leave the book? Unless Snape lost track of the book earlier on as a student -- perhaps James nicked it, which is why he and so many other students knew "levicorpus".

This seems logical, but wouldn't it also be logical for Snape to pack up his desk? Why leave the book? Unless Snape lost track of the book earlier on as a student -- perhaps James nicked it, which is why he and so many other students knew "levicorpus".What I don't get about the book, is that it's for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been invented and used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?

What I don't get about the book, is that it's for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been invented and used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?

I have a couple of theories on this: 1. the spell was invented by someone else and Harry just ASSUMED that the previous owner of the book invented it. or 2. The spell was created by Snape, and then after he tried to use it verbally on the much quicker James, he started to use it NVBL and that's why he wrote it in the book as a NVBL spell (I think that was the one that had NVBL by it).

I have a couple of theories on this: 1. the spell was invented by someone else and Harry just ASSUMED that the previous owner of the book invented it. or 2. The spell was created by Snape, and then after he tried to use it verbally on the much quicker James, he started to use it NVBL and that's why he wrote it in the book as a NVBL spell (I think that was the one that had NVBL by it). It did have nonverbal by it, but James used it nonverbally...and Harry didn't make a destinction between the tiny, cramped writing, as though it were someone else's.

Maybe he was trying to learn the spell James used on him at the end of fifth year. There are lots of crossings out and stuff; since it's a nonverbal spell, he wouldn't have heard the incantation, so it would have taken some work to figure out how the spell was done. He also put the counterjinx (which he may have developed himself) right underneath, so maybe he wanted to learn how James did it, and find a way to undo it, in case he ever used it again?

What I don't get about the book, is that it's for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been invented and used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?

It was his mother's book, right? Perhaps Snape, being as antisocial as he is, was using the book before year 6? It's not like he seems to have any friends. I wouldn't be surprised if his common room and free time was totally devoted to holing himself up somewhere with books, learning and inventing spells/potions/etc. So maybe he had the book before sixth year and had put that spell in before James used it, or even right after James used it.

What I don't get about the book, is that it's for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been invented and used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?
But Snape came into Hogwarts already fairly proficient, and interested in the dark arts. I think either Lupin or Sirius told Harry that during the discussion about Snape's worst memory.

What I don't get about the book, is that it's for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been invented and used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?
Yes, and we also know that non-verbal spells aren't taught until sixth year and both James and Snape use them in this scene in fifth year.

I also believe that Snape used Sectumsempra on James when he cut open his face. He was just so angry that his aim was off.

I have a couple of theories on this: 1. the spell was invented by someone else and Harry just ASSUMED that the previous owner of the book invented it. or 2. The spell was created by Snape, and then after he tried to use it verbally on the much quicker James, he started to use it NVBL and that's why he wrote it in the book as a NVBL spell (I think that was the one that had NVBL by it). Didn't Lupin say that spells go in and out of fashion...? :huh:

Didn't Lupin say that spells go in and out of fashion...? :huh:
Yes, but I think that was just Lupin's opinion. In HBP, Snape yells at Harry when Harry tries to Levicorpus Snape, and says that he invented those spells, "You dare use my own spells against me, Potter?"

Yes, but I think that was just Lupin's opinion. In HBP, Snape yells at Harry when Harry tries to Levicorpus Snape, and says that he invented those spells, "You dare use my own spells against me, Potter?"
It's possible that Snape is claiming fame for inventing the spell, but in fact may have found it in an obscure spell book somewhere

It's possible that Snape is claiming fame for inventing the spell, but in fact may have found it in an obscure spell book somewhere
Sure, possible, but it seems clear to me at least that Snape invented those spells. After all, someone had to invent all the spells at one time, right?

It's possible that Snape is claiming fame for inventing the spell, but in fact may have found it in an obscure spell book somewhere
I still think that the notes in the book were from Snape trying to learn the spell James used on him, and to learn, or invent, the counterjinx. Harry surmises that the spells in the margins are all original, because of all the revisions, but in this case, he didn't invent it exactly, but figured out how it was done and what the nonverbal incantation was, which is just as difficult, really. That's why the spell 'seemed to have caused the prince some trouble;' he wrote down different variations until he got it right.

I have a couple of theories on this:...
2. The spell was created by Snape, and then after he tried to use it verbally on the much quicker James, he started to use it NVBL and that's why he wrote it in the book as a NVBL spell.

Good point :tu:

Don't want to go around screaming your secret weapon spells at people, easy way to get hoisted by your own petard.

the book, is...for year 6 students...why would Snape invent a spell that had already been ...used on him by James---levicorpus---in year 5?


It was the end of year 5. Snape is son of a potions whiz...& loved potions himself...maybe he read ahead ? Hermione did polyjuice in second year...

Maybe back in the day they studied harder than they do now - and parts of advanced potions was in 5th year curriculum.
Maybe jk messed up.

Good point :tu:

Don't want to go around screaming your secret weapon spells at people, easy way to get hoisted by your own petard.




It was the end of year 5. Snape is son of a potions whiz...& loved potions himself...maybe he read ahead ? Hermione did polyjuice in second year...

Maybe back in the day they studied harder than they do now - and parts of advanced potions was in 5th year curriculum.
Maybe jk messed up.
My understanding was that Snape's books belonged to his mother, which I believe means, that he had all the time in the world to read it and study ahead so I think thats the answer ?. :huh:

ETA. Didn't Sirius or was it Lupin say that when Snape started school he allready knew more curses and jinxes than anyone else in their grade ?

I'm trying to figure out Snape's heritage. Snape's mom was 'half a prince' as in her father was a pureblood who married a muggle, right? And she also married a muggle...so that makes Snape only a quarter magical, right? So he can boast to the DE how his grandfather is a pureblood, but Snape himself isn't. I don't know how Snape could boast about his bloodline like Ron suggested he would have at the end of HBP. I think i'm just confusing myself, could someone clarify?

I'm trying to figure out Snape's heritage. Snape's mom was 'half a prince' as in her father was a pureblood who married a muggle, right? And she also married a muggle...so that makes Snape only a quarter magical, right? So he can boast to the DE how his grandfather is a pureblood, but Snape himself isn't. I don't know how Snape could boast about his bloodline like Ron suggested he would have at the end of HBP. I think i'm just confusing myself, could someone clarify?
I thought that SNAPE was a half of a prince ... as in his MOTHER was a PRINCE but his father was not?

I thought that SNAPE was a half of a prince ... as in his MOTHER was a PRINCE but his father was not?

I think that "This book belongs to Half Blood Prince" wasn't written by Snape, but by his mother. She was really "half blood". And Hermiane always was talking about that the writings in the book belongs to a girl, not to a boy. :p [And as we know that Hermione always right.]

Snape just like the theory of himself to be Half Blood Prince.And, SurryPotter, you are absolutely right: logicaly speaking - he is half blood PRINCE [half blood from Mommy, half blood from Daddy].

I think that "This book belongs to Half Blood Prince" wasn't written by Snape, but by his mother. She was really "half blood". And Hermiane always was talking about that the writings in the book belongs to a girl, not to a boy. :p [And as we know that Hermione always right.]

Thats an interesting idea, it would explain why snape had the book to begin with. It was very odd to me that his mother would keep her potions book from her sixth year at school, however if it already had that valuable information in it that would explain why she kept it and passed it on to snape. That could also explain why so many people knew about the Levicorpus spell that was in the book, didn't lupin say that curses often go in and out of fashion. Maybe it just happened to be snape that brought that particular spell back in fashion and people just starting copying it because it was already a well known spell.

It's possible that Snape is claiming fame for inventing the spell, but in fact may have found it in an obscure spell book somewhere

From his own mother, I believe.
I think that Snape always want to be appreciated for anything he’s doing. Remember, he was VERY pleased in the third book when Fudge promised Order of Merlin Second [or maybe First] class. And why he “accidentally let slip that Lupin is werewolf”? Because he lost appreciation!!

Snape came to school very knowledgeable in spells and dark magic. He was very good student, and his mother probably help him a lot. For some reason I believe that he lost his parents very early, he looks very lonely to me in his sixteenths: in his memory he was alone sitting in the dark room, shooting the flies….

And for some reason I believe that Snape’s “The advance potion making” wasn’t given accidentally exactly to Harry, and not to Ron.

Thats an interesting idea, it would explain why snape had the book to begin with. It was very odd to me that his mother would keep her potions book from her sixth year at school, however if it already had that valuable information in it that would explain why she kept it and passed it on to snape. That could also explain why so many people knew about the Levicorpus spell that was in the book, didn't lupin say that curses often go in and out of fashion. Maybe it just happened to be snape that brought that particular spell back and people just starting copying it because it was such an amusing spell.

Let's us don't forget that this book was made something 50 years before Harry's time [uhh, it Voldy's time actually!!!!] So that was sure the mother's book with her writings...

Snape, in the other side, always wnat to be little bit bigger, little bit more appreciated.. He want to belive to himself that it was him, who invented it... or he did invented them in his years. That's posible answer.

[QUOTE=KinDzaDza]Let's us don't forget that this book was made something 50 years before Harry's time [uhh, it Voldy's time actually!!!!] So that was sure the mother's book with her writings...
QUOTE]

Actually it was two or three years after Riddle left Hogwarts. Riddle opened the Chamber 54 years earlier at the time of HBP, and he was 16 when he opened it... Now that i think about it a little more, Snape's mother would have been a 2nd year when the chamber was opened...could she have told her son about it? Could Snape have pieced together that it was Riddle who opened the chamber well before Harry's second year?? What could Snape have done w/ this information, could it have influenced his facination with the Dark Arts? Am I overreacting to this mini revelation?

[QUOTE=KinDzaDza]Let's us don't forget that this book was made something 50 years before Harry's time [uhh, it Voldy's time actually!!!!] So that was sure the mother's book with her writings...
QUOTE]

Actually it was two or three years after Riddle left Hogwarts. Riddle opened the Chamber 54 years earlier at the time of HBP, and he was 16 when he opened it... Now that i think about it a little more, Snape's mother would have been a 2nd year when the chamber was opened...could she have told her son about it? Could Snape have pieced together that it was Riddle who opened the chamber well before Harry's second year?? What could Snape have done w/ this information, could it have influenced his facination with the Dark Arts? Am I overreacting to this mini revelation?

That was a very good find about Snapes mother so she went to school with Tom Riddle .The same house I bet. I wonder what if anything she told her son about Tom ? . After all he was head boy so he must have been well known among the Slytherins ?. :huh:

I'm trying to figure out Snape's heritage. Snape's mom was 'half a prince' as in her father was a pureblood who married a muggle, right? And she also married a muggle...so that makes Snape only a quarter magical, right? So he can boast to the DE how his grandfather is a pureblood, but Snape himself isn't. I don't know how Snape could boast about his bloodline like Ron suggested he would have at the end of HBP. I think i'm just confusing myself, could someone clarify?
No, Snape's mum was a pureblood called Eileen Prince. His dad was a Muggle called Tobias Snape. That made Severus Snape a Half-Blood from the Prince family, hence a 'Half-Blood Prince'.

No, Snape's mum was a pureblood called Eileen Prince. His dad was a Muggle called Tobias Snape. That made Severus Snape a Half-Blood from the Prince family, hence a 'Half-Blood Prince'.

Does anyone remember what chapter or page Hermione finds the article about Eileen?

Chapter 25: 'The Seer Overrheard'

It's at the very end of page 537 in the US edition, the third page of the chapter.

There are two mentions of Hermione's research on Eileen Prince. The first is in Chapter 25 (The Seer Overheard) pg 502-503 (UK) when she finds the article on Eileen being the Gobstones Captain. The second is in Chapter 30 (The White Tomb) pg 593-595 (UK) when she finds the reference to Eileen's marriage.

I collected some thoughts on Eileen in this thread: Was Eileen Prince a Death Eater? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=70172) . Just ignore the name of the thread, it was a wild guess.

"Harry picked up the crumbling piece of paper and stared at the moving
photograph, yellowed with age; Ron leaned over for a look, too. The picture
showed a skinny girl of around fifteen. She was not pretty; she looked
simultaneously cross and sullen, with heavy brows and a long, pallid face.
Under-neath the photograph was the caption: Eileen Prince, Captain of the
Hogwarts Gobstones Team."

*Eileen was at Hogwarts "nearly fifty years ago" (assuming she was the first owner of the "Advanced Potion Making"). Following thit path she must have been in her sixth year then.

It fits the time when Chamber of Secrets was opened first time, when Hagrid was expelled, and when Tom Riddle was making teachers in the school stunned by his talents. So Eileen must have been a bit younger than Tom.

We learned that Tom left school having a bunch of "friends" - his first loyal supporters, people who became Death Eaters eventually.

Eileen could have been in Slytherin. We can assume she was for two reasons: Snape knew a lot of curses and dark spells when he started school (it means he learned, or was tought home. It could be a hobby or not.), and her son ended up in Slytherin.

I was wondering if Eileen could been one of those first supporters? It would give some background to Snape's acts. Maybe she left LV side when she fell in love with a muggle? Could she be punished for it later on? (I don't think Tom Riddle could afford killing people from wizarding society when he was still gaining power, but later, when he was The-he-who-must-not-be-named, he could kill all the traitors.). Could LV kill Snape's parents?

Tell me what you think.


That’s very possible, and this theory can explain why Severus Snape can be against the Dark Lord [very deep and secretly in his heart]
Terrible to say, Death Eaters killed many muggles “just for fun”. It is possible that one of them can be Tobias Snape.
If Voldy killed Snape’s parents [or by his order] – Voldy must be sure that Severus doesn’t know about it. But Severus Snape somehow found it…

Severus is a kind of person who will never forget or forgive. Morgan LeFay, your theory is very good. I like it. Thanks.
:tu:

What is the difference between Levicorpus and Wingardium Leviosa (sp)?

My first thought: Levicorpus was invented to make bodies fly. I think corpus is the latin word for bodie (I am not sure). But they always used Wingardium Leviosa to make things fly like feathers, bats and so on. And body is also a thing for me. So why did Snape invented Levicorpus also there was already a spell to make things fly?

What is the difference between Levicorpus and Wingardium Leviosa (sp)?

My first thought: Levicorpus was invented to make bodies fly. I think corpus is the latin word for bodie (I am not sure). But they always used Wingardium Leviosa to make things fly like feathers, bats and so on. And body is also a thing for me. So why did Snape invented Levicorpus also there was already a spell to make things fly?

The only two things I can come up with are:

1. It is used on humans only?
2. It turns the body upside down instead of just making it levitate.

What is the difference between Levicorpus and Wingardium Leviosa (sp)?

My first thought: Levicorpus was invented to make bodies fly. I think corpus is the latin word for bodie (I am not sure). But they always used Wingardium Leviosa to make things fly like feathers, bats and so on. And body is also a thing for me. So why did Snape invented Levicorpus also there was already a spell to make things fly?

Levicorpus lifts the person up by their heel and holds them upside down. Wingardium Leviosa floats the object.

Levicorpus (corpse???) to me implies bodies, so presumably it is mainly bodies that are lifted in this spell. But the fact they are turned upside down is relevant.

Wingardium Leviosa I guess can be used to "carry things". Maybe you could carry your trunk using this spell, but if you used Levicorpus it would turn it upside down and the contents would spill out.

...Levicorpus (corpse???) to me implies bodies, so presumably it is mainly bodies that are lifted in this spell...

Yup! Corpus is latin for "body." A similar spell (mobilicorpus) was used in PoA to transport the unconscious Snape from the Shrieking Shack.

Wingardium Leviosa I guess can be used to "carry things". Maybe you could carry your trunk using this spell, but if you used Levicorpus it would turn it upside down and the contents would spill out.
I think they use Locomotor to move trunks. Maybe WL is used to move lighter objects.

No, Snape's mum was a pureblood called Eileen Prince. His dad was a Muggle called Tobias Snape. That made Severus Snape a Half-Blood from the Prince family, hence a 'Half-Blood Prince'.

Eileen Prince was a half blood, her father was a pureblood and her mother was a muggle. Then Eileen married a muggle, making Snape (in the genetic sense) a quarter wizard...I just don't understand how he could boast about his bloodlines to the DE when he joined.

Eileen Prince was a half blood, her father was a pureblood and her mother was a muggle. Then Eileen married a muggle, making Snape (in the genetic sense) a quarter wizard...I just don't understand how he could boast about his bloodlines to the DE when he joined.
On Page 637, Hermione says, "Snape must have been proud of being half a Prince ..."

Harry then says, "He'd play up the pure-blood side ... He's just like Voldemort. Pure-blood mother, muggle father ..."

Snape calls himself the Half-Blood Prince because half his blood is pure-blood from the Prince side of his family.

Harry then says, "He'd play up the pure-blood side ... He's just like Voldemort. Pure-blood mother, muggle father ..."I have a feeling that Harry only assumed she was pure-blood. I can't find it confirmed in the book. She was a witch who married a muggle and had a son. That's all we know. She might have been pure, half or muggle-born; with a muggle father Snape is half-blood anyway. And, of course, half-Prince.

Is this just me or does anybody else feel that calling yourself 'half-blood' is not so much playing up the pure-blood side as it is stressing the fact that you are not, in fact, pure-blood?
Can any of you see Death Eaters like Bellatrix be impressed by the title HBP?
Can you see Tom Riddle choosing this as a nickname? (Assuming he was in the same situation, i.e. found out his mother's maiden name was 'Prince'.)

Is this just me or does anybody else feel that calling yourself 'half-blood' is not so much playing up the pure-blood side as it is stressing the fact that you are not, in fact, pure-blood?
Can any of you see Death Eaters like Bellatrix be impressed by the title HBP?
Can you see Tom Riddle choosing this as a nickname? (Assuming he was in the same situation, i.e. found out his mother's maiden name was 'Prince'.)

You're right, it does seem very odd for any potential DE or supporter to stress this side of their background. And yet who else could wright a spell like Sectumsempra?

One thought: Maybe the stress in 'Half-blood Prince' should be on the Prince. If he name Prince was a noble, famous etc name, then what could actually be meant by the phrase is that the author was a half Prince, a half blood Prince. (Confusing, sorry :huh: )