Little Questions Answered

Not confusing, I understand what you mean.
I do not doubt that Snape IS the HBP, by the way.
What I do doubt is that that nickname was known to anybody at school. I think it was a private thing. And I also think it shows that Snape was not really into the pure-bllod mania thing. (*grin* Looking for 'Snape is not evil'-clues everywhere.)
I mean, he could have made it the 'anything' Prince, and it would still have been a clever word game and it would still have stressed his inheritance from his mother's side, but he chose 'half-blood'.

One thought: Maybe the stress in 'Half-blood Prince' should be on the Prince. If he name Prince was a noble, famous etc name, then what could actually be meant by the phrase is that the author was a half Prince, a half blood Prince. (Confusing, sorry :huh: )
That's because it is confusing even as JKR wrote it. I agree with you that the stress should be on "Prince" and Snape wouldn't have put that emphasis if the Prince family weren't pure-bloods.

The reality is that Snape gave himself this name when he was about 16 years old, a sort of pretentious name that he probably wouldn't have carried into adult life.

I have thought that Snape was born of a full blood Witch whose surname was Prince...and father a Muggle..named Snape..and when you put the two together..that would make Snape..half a Prince...cause mother was a full blood..otherwise..he'd be a quarter Prince...

and the book was his mothers...I think..as it was 50 years old..same age as his mom...as snape..is as old as Harry's dad ..as they were classmates...and he's some 30 or so years old...

and as far as spells go...Lupin said a lot of spells go in and out of fashion...like our wordings...groovy..and boogie...is so 70's and it's in fashion now...



Let's us don't forget that this book was made something 50 years before Harry's time [uhh, it Voldy's time actually!!!!] So that was sure the mother's book with her writings...
.

The book was only 50 years old...not before Harry's time...but just 50 years old...Snape was as old as James..so he'd be in his 30's...and Snape's mother around 50's...given she'd probably be 16 before she got this book..so add another 16 years...and their you have it...she was the owner of the book...and probably Snape's crib notes...maybe his mom's too. He was very proud of being a Prince...it was the only connection he had to being a wizarding family...not a mudblood as he called Lily...he already knew about Lord Voldermort...and more important than a Lord is a Prince...so he probably had a superiority complex with the fact that his title was higher than Voldermort...and felt even more superior in his abilities..than Voldermort... :huh:

Ok, here's my take on it :)

DD had LV's ring on the table at one time and it had been used as a horcruse (spelling?). After the next visit to the pensieve Harry spotted the harmonica and thought that it might also be a horcruse since the ring was. That's why DD said "Very astute, Harry, but the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ".


This line (mouth organ) was also a poke at us fans from JK...sometimes we read a bit too much into things...sometimes things are just as they seem.

She has quite a bit of humor like that in this book...my favorite is when Sluggy calls Ron, Rupurt...too funny :eyebrows:

I really enjoyed how she connected with the fans in the book, shows how much she appreciates us, as we do her.

I'm still confused about the rings on Seamus' hands. He's wearing it again in the movie GOF if you look at the photos.

When she starts calling Harry- Dan....I know she's having fun with us...but she knows she's got us where she wants us..and she so enjoys this...I can see her at Midnight in her study..going through these and laughing her head off...she so enjoyed telling us..BIG HINTS in CHAMBER OF SECRETS..when all along ...it was just the book..maybe there were more there...she says we have to look and find them..that she's given us all the hints we need...we just need to find them....I bet she loves Easter Egg Hunts....

CAn anyone tell me how to actually pronounce horcrux? TIA.

Hor-crux, simple as that

CAn anyone tell me how to actually pronounce horcrux? TIA.Exactly as it's spelled. "Hor CRUX es", but you can check out how to properly pronounce things from HP here:
Pronunciation Guide (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/reference/).

So, can all spells be performed as non-verbal or only certain ones? In OotP during the fight at the MoM Hermione caused a DE to be rendered speechless. He then aimed a spell at her which caused her to be knocked unconsious. It was said that the spell didn't do as much damage as it would have it if it had been performed verbally. On the other hand, Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to do most, if not all, of their spells non-verbally. Perhaps it has something to do with the power of the wizard?

I used to think that only "lesser" spells could be cast non-verbally, but I think I was confusing non-verbal spells with wandless magic.

Looking back in the book, it seems that any spell can be cast non-verbally but not every wizard has the ability."Not all wizards can do this, of course; it is a question of concentration and mind power which some lack."But there are spells like Levicorpus that seem to be non-verbal only, hence the nvbl note written beside Levicorpus in Snape's potions book.

Snape was trying to tell Harry how to do this..but we really don't see him "teaching" Malfoy much...I suspect..he thinks even less of Malfoy's power..than he does Harry...he certainly made his thoughts of Neville public..but based on his comments..it seems he felt Hermonie was the brightest..Harry than Malfoy.

When Snape was fleeing from hogwarts, did anyone feel like he was almost trying to remind harry about nonverbal spells or something?

You can find plenty of discussion on this here: Was Snape still "Teaching" Harry at the end or... (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=60136)

Is it in HBP or in OOTP that Harry becomes Quidditch captain ?

Is it in HBP or in OOTP that Harry becomes Quidditch captain ?HBP. In OOTP he's taken off the team partway through.

Really ?

Hmmm I just can't remenber when...
Could you be kind enough of telling me when he gets it ? Is it with his O.W.L ?

Really ?

Hmmm I just can't remenber when...
Could you be kind enough of telling me when he gets it ? Is it with his O.W.L ?

It comes with his Hogwarts letter (you know the one he gets every year with his ticket, and book list ect.) :)

That's what confused me. Except for the mouth organ/harmonica in Riddle's box of stolen items, I don't think it was mentioned.

The quote is on Page 278. "Very astute, Harry, but the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ."

"And on that enigmatic note, he waved to Harry, who understood himself to be dismissed?"

That's the part I don't understand. How does "enigmatic" fit in. Is Dumbledore hiding something that I missed after that?
I believe what was ment by that was Dumbledore was alluding to the fact the ring was more than a ring. In fact we find out it was a horcrux. He was showing Harry that Voldemorte as a child collected trophies, and now, the few trophies he collects as an adult are important to his defeat.

It comes with his Hogwarts letter (you know the one he gets every year with his ticket, and book list ect.) :)

Oh yeah that's it.Thanks ;)

Okay, on page 379 of the UK ed. of HBP is says "Hagrid stopped talking as the ghost of a long-haired woman drifted past, then resumed in a hoarse whisper...." Do we know who that is? Are there ghosts drifting arond all the time and we just don't hear about them? Or is she important? Or does it say in the first book, as I sort of recall, that there are hundreds of ghosts all around? Just wondering :)

Okay, on page 379 of the UK ed. of HBP is says "Hagrid stopped talking as the ghost of a long-haired woman drifted past, then resumed in a hoarse whisper...." Do we know who that is? Are there ghosts drifting arond all the time and we just don't hear about them? Or is she important? Or does it say in the first book, as I sort of recall, that there are hundreds of ghosts all around? Just wondering :)
It might be the Grey Lady which is supposedly the Ravenclaw house ghost. There was a reference to her in SS. I think it's when Harry and Ron are going to look at the Mirror of Erised. Sorry! I don't have my book with me. :huh:

It might be the Grey Lady which is supposedly the Ravenclaw house ghost. There was a reference to her in SS. I think it's when Harry and Ron are going to look at the Mirror of Erised. Sorry! I don't have my book with me. :huh:
I think it might be the Grey Lady as well ... but I don't know if it's relevant that Hagrid is trying not to let a Ghost overhear him. However, since DD pretty much knows everything that's going on in the school, the house ghosts could be his eyes and his ears. :)

Thanks surrypotter and pegoheart144!

Oh, surry, at the time he's talking about the Snape-DD fight that he wasn't supposed to know about, so I don't think he'd want anyone at all to overhear him. I wonder if the house ghosts sort of are his eyes and ears in the castle :D

since DD pretty much knows everything that's going on in the school, the house ghosts could be his eyes and his ears

I don't think that DD would use ghosts as his spies. Ghosts were all people who feared death, a quality that DD by no means admires. It seems to me that they aren't the type of people that DD would like to be helping him.

Staying on the topics of ghosts, I have a question. Does one have to have been a wizard in order to become a ghost?

I don't think that DD would use ghosts as his spies. Ghosts were all people who feared death, a quality that DD by no means admires. It seems to me that they aren't the type of people that DD would like to be helping him.

He might not admire them, but they might be put there to serve him like the portraits of past head masters were.

Staying on the topics of ghosts, I have a question. Does one have to have been a wizard in order to become a ghost?
No, I think it's a strictly magical thing. Don't you think there'd be a lot of ghosts if everyone in the world had an opportunity to create one?

Thinking of becomine one ? :lol: :D :D

Maybe, just cause rumors and juicy tid-bits get back to the speakers...so Hagrid doesn't want to get in trouble...you know how gossip gets around....

I don't think that DD would use ghosts as his spies. Ghosts were all people who feared death, a quality that DD by no means admires. It seems to me that they aren't the type of people that DD would like to be helping him.I'd have to disagree with that. Nearly everyone's afraid of something - just because Nearly Headless Nick and the other ghosts happen to have the same worst fear as LV doesn't make them bad people. If Dumbledore puts up with Mundungus, I don't think he'd have any problem with trusting someone who was just too scared to 'cross over.' He's probably the least judgemental character in the books; he's more than willing to overlook people's personal flaws and focus on the positive things they can contribute instead.Staying on the topics of ghosts, I have a question. Does one have to have been a wizard in order to become a ghost?Yeah, I think Nick tells us at the end of OotP that only magical people can become ghosts.Maybe, just cause rumors and juicy tid-bits get back to the speakers...so Hagrid doesn't want to get in trouble...you know how gossip gets around....Right, I think Hagrid would have been just as likely to lower his voice if a living person had passed as if a dead one did. He didn't want to be overheard by anyone, even a ghost.

It wasn't worth his job...he treasures that the most..as in the end of HBP he tells McGonagal..Hogwarts is his home....

Yeah, I think Nick tells us at the end of OotP that only magical people can become ghosts."Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth,..." But I'm not sure he meant that muggles can't. That wasn't the matter of their talk.

"Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth,..." But I'm not sure he meant that muggles can't. That wasn't the matter of their talk.Actually, they do mention it:
Nearly Headless Nick hesitated, then said, "Not everyone can come back as a ghost." "What d'you mean?" said Harry quickly. "Only . . . only wizards." "Oh," said Harry, and he almost laughed with relief.So . . . no muggle ghosts apparently. :)

Thanks Billywiggy I stand corrected.

Nearly everyone's afraid of something - just because Nearly Headless Nick and the other ghosts happen to have the same worst fear as LV doesn't make them bad people. If Dumbledore puts up with Mundungus, I don't think he'd have any problem with trusting someone who was just too scared to 'cross over.' He's probably the least judgemental character in the books; he's more than willing to overlook people's personal flaws and focus on the positive things they can contribute instead..
Bingo. :tu:

Oh , I never remenber this one:
Harry is 16 at the end of HBP ,right ?
What month is he born in ?

What month is he born in ?
Harry's birthday is July 31, just like JKR. :)

July, on the 31st :)

Thanks to you two :)

You guys have turned me around to your way of thinking about whether DD would use ghosts as spies. Still don't think it's likely but definately possible. And thanks for answering my question as well :cool:!

I have a little question and a possible answer to my own question. If DD told Harry to fetch his cloak on THE night, after earlier telling Harry to carry it with him at all times, what is the meaning of this.....Did DD legamens Harry to know that he would have his friends watch the castle.....Was it DD who need a few more minutes to do something he had not anticipated....(perhaps go forward in time to visit Harry at the Dursley's next summer)

I have a little question and a possible answer to my own question. If DD told Harry to fetch his cloak on THE night, after earlier telling Harry to carry it with him at all times, what is the meaning of this.....Did DD legamens Harry to know that he would have his friends watch the castle.....Was it DD who need a few more minutes to do something he had not anticipated....(perhaps go forward in time to visit Harry at the Dursley's next summer)



I don't think DD premeditated Harry telling his friends. I don't recall exactly when it was that he told Harry to carry his cloak with him at all times, but I'm sure he knew that one thing would be to tell Harry and another would be to expect Harry to go through with his request. In all likelihood, he guessed that Harry was not carrying the cloak when he witnessed how shaken up and flustered he looked upon entering his office.

Either that or maybe it was just a device on JK's part to get Harry to warn his friends. She might not even have rememembered that little detail at all. Us Potter fans are just very overanalytical. :cool:

But all in all, good catch, cods. I certainly would have never caught that. :tu:

I don't think DD premeditated Harry telling his friends. I don't recall exactly when it was that he told Harry to carry his cloak with him at all times, but I'm sure he knew that one thing would be to tell Harry and another would be to expect Harry to go through with his request. In all likelihood, he guessed that Harry was not carrying the cloak when he witnessed how shaken up and flustered he looked upon entering his office.

Either that or maybe it was just a device on JK's part to get Harry to warn his friends. She might not even have rememembered that little detail at all. Us Potter fans are just very overanalytical. :cool:

But all in all, good catch, cods. I certainly would have never caught that. :tu:


He told him to carry the cloak in the broom closet before dropping him at the Weasleys.....

I have a little question and a possible answer to my own question. If DD told Harry to fetch his cloak on THE night, after earlier telling Harry to carry it with him at all times, what is the meaning of this.....Did DD legamens Harry to know that he would have his friends watch the castle.....Was it DD who need a few more minutes to do something he had not anticipated....(perhaps go forward in time to visit Harry at the Dursley's next summer)

i noticed that too, and i just figured DD wanted to make sure they didn't leave without Harry's cloak. Remember DD had to remind Harry to get Sluggy's memory, DD knows that Harry can get a little distracted.

I have a little question and a possible answer to my own question. If DD told Harry to fetch his cloak on THE night, after earlier telling Harry to carry it with him at all times, what is the meaning of this.....Did DD legamens Harry to know that he would have his friends watch the castle.....Was it DD who need a few more minutes to do something he had not anticipated....(perhaps go forward in time to visit Harry at the Dursley's next summer)I think Dumbledore needed time to inform McGonagall to keep an eye on things. Sending Harry to get his Invisibility Cloak allowed that and gave Harry the opportunity to warn Ron and Hermoine.

i noticed that too, and i just figured DD wanted to make sure they didn't leave without Harry's cloak. Remember DD had to remind Harry to get Sluggy's memory, DD knows that Harry can get a little distracted.
True, Harry can get distracted, but somehow I don't think it was random. Wouldn't it be more like Dumbledore to simply confirm with Harry that he had his cloak and set off immediately? Especially since it was Dumbledore who summoned Harry & was setting the timetable on the expedition to the cave. Notice that Dumbledore says this to Harry and immediately turns to look out the window at the sunset. It seems deliberate to me, as if he knew very well that Harry had his cloak with him -- but DD either wanted a bit of time for himself alone in his office, or time for Harry to speak with H & R -- or both.

Quick question, don't know if it was already covered in the thread but what the hell's a mouth organ? :huh:

Quick question, don't know if it was already covered in the thread but what the hell's a mouth organ? :huh:


A harmonica, I think?

A harmonica, I think?

And what did that have to do with the ring/Horcrux Dumbledore destroyed? I'm on my fourth reading of HBP and I still don't get it.

Toppa

i'm not sure what you mean. It didn't have anything to do with the ring.
It was just an example of a trophy that Voldy collected.

Toppa

i'm not sure what you mean. It didn't have anything to do with the ring.
It was just an example of a trophy that Voldy collected.

Oh, oh, oh. Thank you.

If you go and look at the Identifying the Remaining Horcruxes (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=72110) thread, you'll get an idea of one of the problems facing Harry on his quest: namely the tendency to see a Horcrux in almost anything. The mouth organ comment was to steer him away from that and help him to work from the known, not random stabs in the dark.

Quick question, don't know if it was already covered in the thread but what the hell's a mouth organ? :huh:

A mouth organ is a harmonica.

The jist of this line is a poke of fun from JKR to her fans. Since we are always picking apart EVERYTHING (LOL), she wanted to let us know that sometimes things are just as they seem...thus the line "sometimes a mouth organ is just a mouth organ".

There are several jokes directed at fans...this is just one...my favorite, as I have said before, is when Sluggy calls Ron....RUPERT...LOL...way funny!

Here is a picture of a mouth organ

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/other/harmonica/suzuki/gif/ha-20.jpg

I have a question. I don't know if this has ever been asked before, and honestly there are far too many pages (and versions of this thread) to sift through.

With the Avada Kedavra curse, does the person casting it have to aim at a vital area of the body (like one would with a bullet) or do thy just have to make contact with any part of their intended target. For example, if someone takes the curse in the arm, will they die? It seems (from the impression I got) that the wizard casting the curse seems to aim for something vital. But then, we are talking about magic hear, and not balistics.

I don't know. I was just wondering about this point. I guess it isn't very important (unless someone was aiming the curse at you ... haha)

I have a question. I don't know if this has ever been asked before, and honestly there are far too many pages (and versions of this thread) to sift through.

With the Avada Kedavra curse, does the person casting it have to aim at a vital area of the body (like one would with a bullet) or do thy just have to make contact with any part of their intended target. For example, if someone takes the curse in the arm, will they die? It seems (from the impression I got) that the wizard casting the curse seems to aim for something vital. But then, we are talking about magic hear, and not balistics.

I don't know. I was just wondering about this point. I guess it isn't very important (unless someone was aiming the curse at you ... haha)

At a guess, the wand would just need to be pointing at the person in question, not anything vital.

I have a question. I don't know if this has ever been asked before, and honestly there are far too many pages (and versions of this thread) to sift through.

With the Avada Kedavra curse, does the person casting it have to aim at a vital area of the body (like one would with a bullet) or do thy just have to make contact with any part of their intended target. For example, if someone takes the curse in the arm, will they die? It seems (from the impression I got) that the wizard casting the curse seems to aim for something vital. But then, we are talking about magic hear, and not balistics.

I don't know. I was just wondering about this point. I guess it isn't very important (unless someone was aiming the curse at you ... haha)
I believe that the Avada Kedavara curse , Is a contact spell in order for it to affect you it just has to touch your body ,I think that just hitting your clothes IE Flowing robes and not your body wouldn't kill you . It would probably scare the cr*p out of you but not kill you .

With the Avada Kedavra curse, does the person casting it have to aim at a vital area of the body (like one would with a bullet) or do thy just have to make contact with any part of their intended target. For example, if someone takes the curse in the arm, will they die? It seems (from the impression I got) that the wizard casting the curse seems to aim for something vital. But then, we are talking about magic hear, and not balistics.

I think it probably would kill you, otherwise Moody would have taught them how to dodge the spell in book 4. The reason to aim at a vital point (ie, the heart) could just be that there's more of a chance of the spell actually hitting the person then if they aimed at, say, their foot.

I think it probably would kill you, otherwise Moody would have taught them how to dodge the spell in book 4. The reason to aim at a vital point (ie, the heart) could just be that there's more of a chance of the spell actually hitting the person then if they aimed at, say, their foot.


But would he have? After all Voldy was going to kill Harry later, 'Moody' wouldn't want to decrease the possibility of it happening

But would he have? After all Voldy was going to kill Harry later, 'Moody' wouldn't want to decrease the possibility of it happening

No, the Avada Kedavra is supposed to be unmissable. Harry is the only known survivor - and that was down to ancient magic and blood protection. There is no way to dodge the AK if it's aim is true. The only way Harry survives it in the graveyard is by it missing him. I think even if it hit his foot then the curse would be effective.

Yes I know there's no way of dodging it, what I was really saying was if therre was would 'Moody' teach them anyway?

Yes I know there's no way of dodging it, what I was really saying was if therre was would 'Moody' teach them anyway?

Interesting. When we found out that Moody was in fact fake, I couldn't understand a lot of what he did - like turning Draco into a ferret for example. I think he probably would have taught them, as if there was a way to dodge it, even if the students didn't actually know the way, then it would have been found out somehow...surely Hermione would have put her hand up and said "but sir...we know that it can be dodged, please explain how".

He was incredibly intelligent and almost got away without being caught, probably would have done if Harry hadn't returned after the graveyard episode.

Wow guys! Thanks for great responses and answers. You really have me thinking. I think kneazlegirl made a very valid point about the size of the target.

As to the question about whether Imposter Moody would have taught them a way to deflect the curse (if there was one) I think he would have. He would certainly have aroused DD's suspicions if he hadn't, and if not DD's, then Hermione's. It is funny that it was because of Imposter Moody a.k.a. LV's greatest supporter, that Harry learnt how to throw off the Imperius Curse. Haha

Since Harry dodged it once...who is to say anything Voldermort did would hurt him? Even if Voldermort has his blood now...Voldermort can't use AK again...even Snape can't...so AK is not something he need worry about...even in the graveyard scene...right?

Since Harry dodged it once...who is to say anything Voldermort did would hurt him? Even if Voldermort has his blood now...Voldermort can't use AK again...even Snape can't...so AK is not something he need worry about...even in the graveyard scene...right?
I think Harry should be worried about AK. Imagine that LV uses Expelliarmus at first, so Harry looses his wand and Voldemort can use AK without priori incantatem (sp?).
By the way, why can't Snape use AK?

He could have in the 2nd to the last chapter of HBP, but he didn't! As he was running toward to gate (Snape) he told Harry he wasn't going to kill him..or rather telling the other DE's not to bother with Harry...that Voldermort wanted the job....so he wouldn't use AK on Harry...none of the DE would ..it was under Voldermort's orders... so...why?

He could have in the 2nd to the last chapter of HBP, but he didn't! As he was running toward to gate (Snape) he told Harry he wasn't going to kill him..or rather telling the other DE's not to bother with Harry...that Voldermort wanted the job....so he wouldn't use AK on Harry...none of the DE would ..it was under Voldermort's orders... so...why?
Oh I thought you meant that he wasn't able to kill Harry.
Why did Voldemort give the DEs orders to keep Harry alive so that he himself could kill him? The first obvious reason is that there could be book 7.:lol: Seriously, I think that it was because of the prophecy. He thinks he's the one who should kill Harry. I am not sure, though. It's a good question.

Yeah I agree with Evik, also after all the times Harry has escaped from Voldybum Voldy needs to be the one to kill him, it wouldn't do much good for his pride if someone else got there first

Since Harry dodged it once...who is to say anything Voldermort did would hurt him? Even if Voldermort has his blood now...Voldermort can't use AK again...even Snape can't...so AK is not something he need worry about...even in the graveyard scene...right?

Huh :huh: Just because Harry managed to get away from the AK once...why does that mean he doesn't have to worry about it anymore? He isn't invincible...up until this point a lot of what he has done is down to luck!

What luck does a baby have in front of Voldermort...he didn't dodge the AK...he took it on...and it backfired...so what was there to stop the AK from doing a teflon number again? Why did it backfire the first time..nothing has changed...except now Voldermort has "some" blood from Harry in his veins....that shouldn't make a difference..until Harry turns 17...until then the same "powers" of "protection" are still in effect..right? Why is it no one has yet been able to "get " Harry? Why didn't Voldermort in the MoM? He sends everyone else...maybe cause it "hurt" so bad the last time Voldermort ..um...tried to do Harry in?

What luck does a baby have in front of Voldermort...he didn't dodge the AK...he took it on...and it backfired...so what was there to stop the AK from doing a teflon number again? Why did it backfire the first time..nothing has changed...except now Voldermort has "some" blood from Harry in his veins....that shouldn't make a difference..until Harry turns 17...until then the same "powers" of "protection" are still in effect..right? Why is it no one has yet been able to "get " Harry? Why didn't Voldermort in the MoM? He sends everyone else...maybe cause it "hurt" so bad the last time Voldermort ..um...tried to do Harry in?

Harry was protected by his mother's sacrifice - but at the time. He has further protection given by Petunia and this is why V has not been able to touch Harry while he calls Privet Drive his home (not entirely sure how the protection works but it seems to on the whole), but it is not the exact same protection.

The reason why the AK won't do the teflon number again - Harry needs a blood relative to sacrifice themselves for him AGAIN, and it would seem that the action would need to be unknown or unplanned. Lily certainly didn't die to save her son - she didn't know that would be the result, she may have hoped, but she didn't know, otherwise everyone would have been doing it. :p

Voldemort didn't get Harry in the MoM because DD and Fawkes protected him - remember he was behind the statute. V then couldn't bear to possess Harry's body once Harry started feeling emotion of at least he would now be able to be with Sirius. So it's not the AK that V can't do - it's possession...because Harry has the ability to love.

Harry was protected by his mother's sacrifice - but at the time. He has further protection given by Petunia and this is why V has not been able to touch Harry while he calls Privet Drive his home (not entirely sure how the protection works but it seems to on the whole), but it is not the exact same protection.

The reason why the AK won't do the teflon number again - Harry needs a blood relative to sacrifice themselves for him AGAIN, and it would seem that the action would need to be unknown or unplanned. Lily certainly didn't die to save her son - she didn't know that would be the result, she may have hoped, but she didn't know, otherwise everyone would have been doing it. :p

Voldemort didn't get Harry in the MoM because DD and Fawkes protected him - remember he was behind the statute. V then couldn't bear to possess Harry's body once Harry started feeling emotion of at least he would now be able to be with Sirius. So it's not the AK that V can't do - it's possession...because Harry has the ability to love.

I don't really think he gets protection anywhere except inside the house...cause the dementors did get to him..but didn't do any harm as such...a bit of good luck ...really...but for someone to again sacrifice themselves....didn't Sirius do that and DD? Sirius didn't go to the MOM for fun..he came to rescue Harry..ditto DD rescued Harry from Draco's gang on the tower...so more sacrifices are not the thing..it's a blood thing..a mother's blood sacrifice I think as it needed to be just like at Godric Hallow....

and lastly...Voldermort had a good 3 minutes alone with Harry..before DD came into the room at the MOM and they exchanged a few vollies before DD got involved...he just couldnt' do it..even with Bella there...they just couldnt' do it....not like DD can! :huh:

Even though the sacrifices made by both Dumbledore and Sirius were great and loving, the protection Harry got from Lily came because Lily literally threw herself in front of the curse aimed a Harry. In JKRs response about the significance of Neville also meeting the qualifications of the prophesy, she emphasized that Lily had taken a curse aimed at Harry and speculated about whether Frank or Alice Longbottom could or would have done the same for Neville.

If DD went to all the trouble of tracking down obscure dying prisoners and house elves in search of LV's past, why didn't he track down Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop and get the memory of little Tommy torturing them in the cave? At first I thought maybe he did and just didn't show it to Harry, but he talks about the cave and what happened therein in very general and uncertain terms at the beginning of the chapter so named. It probably would have been a lot easier to find the cave had DD gotten the memory from the tortured kids, but perhaps it was just the plot device that JKR was using to get us where she needed to.

Mrs. Cole seems to speak of them in the past tense. She says the 'were never quite right afterwards,' not 'they haven't been quite right since.' So it seems that they were not at the orphanage anymore at that interview - maybe Mrs. Cole thought they'd do better if they didn't have to be around Tom?

As for tracking them down later - whatever Tom did to them damaged them seriously. Maybe it shortened their life spans, and they were dead by the time Dumbledore started to gather info about LV?

I think that Dumbledore tracked down mainly those who could cast light on the horcrux question. The Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop thing happened before little Tom even knew he was a wizard. And do we even know he never tracked them down? He managed to locate the cave, but maybe Mrs Cole's information was enough for that.

We don't really know the specifics and details of his searches or what he used to find the people he was looking for--whether he used magical devices or whether he used good, old-fashioned private investigator work. So it's possible that Dumbledore had the means only to track down wizards, in some mystic Dumbledoric way. Or maybe he just couldn't find them. Also, Amy and Dennis would be in their seventies or so now, right? Adding to TaraBrady's idea of shortened lifespans, they wouldn't really be considered too young to have heart attacks, strokes, and other general medical problems... Or just be subjected to life's little odd and random cruelties (like meeting Tom Riddle) that would end their lives prematurely.

And I just thought of something else... It would be kinda weird to see this old man almost exactly how you saw him sixty years ago, come up to you and ask you about a violent and traumatic experience from your childhood. I think I'd personally have a heart attack.

I don't really think he gets protection anywhere except inside the house...cause the dementors did get to him..but didn't do any harm as such...a bit of good luck ...really...but for someone to again sacrifice themselves....didn't Sirius do that and DD? Sirius didn't go to the MOM for fun..he came to rescue Harry..ditto DD rescued Harry from Draco's gang on the tower...so more sacrifices are not the thing..it's a blood thing..a mother's blood sacrifice I think as it needed to be just like at Godric Hallow....

and lastly...Voldermort had a good 3 minutes alone with Harry..before DD came into the room at the MOM and they exchanged a few vollies before DD got involved...he just couldnt' do it..even with Bella there...they just couldnt' do it....not like DD can! :huh:


Neither DD nor Sirius are BLOOD relatives. Sirius didn't sacrifice himself for Harry - he went to protect him sure, but he died fighting for the Order. DD didn't die to save Harry, we don't know why he died. He again protected him by freezing him but he didn't sacrifice himself for Harry. You asked why the AK backfired in the first time, I said it was because his (blood relative) mother died FOR him. The only person who can now die to save him is Petunia - and as much as she's been giving him houseroom for the last 17 years, I'm not sure she is going to do that :blush:

But V not being able to kill Harry has nothing to do with the fact that he can't AK him - Harry is just really good at dodging! Harry is as at much risk of the AK as anyone else now.

Are we so sure? What's to stop it from backfiring again...LV didn't know it the first time...but so long as the protection was there in the beginning..it didn't go anywhere...actually it is stronger now that DD put the spells on Harry...so if anything it is stronger...that is why Harry couldn't get killed in the MOM the first few minutes in the bowels with LV when DD was not there....He did faft a few spells...but even those were not like the ones DD did to LV...he had him completely wrapped up for a few seconds...LV couldn't even do that....I don't think a cement statue is going to stop AK from reaching it's intended victim...if LV wrath was enough or he was able to enter Harry's mind with DD there...and couldn't stand it...with DD not there...it should have been a cake walk...but no... Even with Wormtail there at the cemetary..he couldnt' do anything..in front of all his DE in GoF...he was powerless...he toyed with him...why..cause he was too scared to try again...the first time his body was ripped off his soul...he didn't want to chance it again...He even touched him to see if he would be alright...he's scared of Harry.

Are we so sure? What's to stop it from backfiring again...

I'm afraid I'm finding your post very difficult to read with all the elipsis...but I'll try.

I never said the AK would not backfire again, I was saying that the reason it backfired in the first place was because Lily died as a sacrifice for Harry.

LV didn't know it the first time...but so long as the protection was there in the beginning..it didn't go anywhere...actually it is stronger now that DD put the spells on Harry...

What do you mean the protection didn't go anywhere, in fact it is stronger now that DD has put the spells on him? The only protection Harry has is when he is at 4 Privet Drive, because he lives with Petunia. At Hogwarts Harry is protected by what DD can offer - but it is the same as for all the other students.


so if anything it is stronger...that is why Harry couldn't get killed in the MOM the first few minutes in the bowels with LV when DD was not there....He did faft a few spells...but even those were not like the ones DD did to LV...he had him completely wrapped up for a few seconds...LV couldn't even do that....

I don't know what you are trying to say here. DD is a more powerful wizard than Harry who knows more spells, of course they would have him completely wrapped up for a few seconds . LV's only intention was to kill Harry, he wasn't going to be bothered with fancy footwork (wandwork).


I don't think a cement statue is going to stop AK from reaching it's intended victim...

Well, I think it is. The grave prevented him from being cursed in Goblet of Fire, and I don't think the statue was made of cement, I believe it was made of gold - but I could certainly be wrong on this.

if LV wrath was enough or he was able to enter Harry's mind with DD there...and couldn't stand it...with DD not there...it should have been a cake walk...but no...

It had nothing to do with DD either being there or not being there, or V's wrath. He couldn't possess Harry because Harry felt love...he felt like he was going to die and then decided, well, that wouldn't be so bad because I would be with Sirius. The emotion of love that he felt then was what caused V to depart - nothing to do with DD.

Even with Wormtail there at the cemetary..he couldnt' do anything..in front of all his DE in GoF...he was powerless...he toyed with him...why..cause he was too scared to try again...the first time his body was ripped off his soul...he didn't want to chance it again...He even touched him to see if he would be alright...he's scared of Harry.

He isn't scared of Harry. His wand failed to work against Harry's - Priori Incantatum. Then lots of echoes came out of the wand and protected Harry. V's stupidity, or arrogance, made him want to duel with Harry rather than outright kill him. Harry's pride/stubborness made him retaliate rather than crouch and wait to die. If the wands hadn't connected and Harry's parents hadn't protected him, then no doubt Harry would have been dead.

If I've misunderstood what you are trying to say, then obviously feel free to correct me, but if he was scared of him as you imply, then why did he want Harry to come to the graveyard, remain alive throughout the whole saga of rebirth, rather than take his blood and ask Wormtail to kill him. If he was scared of him then he would have kept him tied up and killed him once he was reborn.

V is not afraid of anyone. He is afraid, of course, that Harry might be more powerful than he is, because that is what the prophecy implies, but he is not afraid of him.

Ohhh...I loved it... a heated debate...If LV wasn't scared of Harry..why his blood..not someone elses? Why get Draco to kill DD if he wasn't afraid of DD? Sorry about all the ...'s

Ohhh...I loved it... a heated debate...If LV wasn't scared of Harry..why his blood..not someone elses? Why get Draco to kill DD if he wasn't afraid of DD? Sorry about all the ...'sI agree with Freaky that V isn't afraid of Harry - that's one of V's weaknesses. However, I agree with you that he is afraid of Dumbledore. In fact, that's one of the first things we learn in the books; McG says outright that DD is the only one LV every feared.

Does anyone know what Fudge was talking about when he told the minister that Voldermort would blackmail him if he didn't let him blow up that bridge or something like that?

Standard terrorist technique - tell the Government that either they do something (release prisoners, transfer large sums of money etc.) or they will commit an atrocity. In Al Qaeda terms it's get out of the Muslim world or we'll attack NY Madrid London etc.

Voldemort told Fudge that unless he (Fudge) stepped down and let Voldemort take over there would be mass muggle killing i.e. the bridge, blackmail

Ohhh...I loved it... a heated debate...If LV wasn't scared of Harry..why his blood..not someone elses? Why get Draco to kill DD if he wasn't afraid of DD? Sorry about all the ...'s

Okay, I might stand corrected on that front :p because I think we have it as canon that he does in fact fear DD, but I still don't think he fears Harry. Peter Pettigrew tries to suggest a different source of blood but V dismisses it.

"It could be done without Harry Potter, my Lord" Another pause, more protracted, and then - "Without Harry Potter?" breathed the second voice softly. "I see..." "My Lord, I do not say this out of concern for the boy!" said Wormtail, his vice rising squeakily.....(next page) "I have my reasons for using the boy, as I have already explained to you, and I will use no other. I have waited thirteen years. A few more months will make no difference. As for the protection surrounding the boy, I believe my plan will be effective."

Doesn't sound scared to me, sounds pretty stubborn!

He used Harry's blood, partly in order to overcome the fact he couldn't touch him...

"You know, of course, that they have called this boy my downfall?" V said softly, his red eyes upon Harry, whose scar began to burn so fiercely that he almost screamed in agony. "You all know that on the night I lost my powers and my body, I tried to kill him. His mother died in the attempt to save him - and unwittingly provided him with a protection I admit I had not foreseen...I could not touch the boy".

and partly because of the power he believes Harry has. But it is obviously important to him that he can now touch Harry.

As for why he had Draco try to kill DD, it was as a punishment for Lucius, if Draco failed then he would have no doubt be killed which would obviously punish Lucius for his failure at the MoM. V could not get close to DD, and had certainly made a pigs ear of attacking DD at the MoM so he took the chance of enlisting the services of Draco, not only because Draco could get close to DD, but also, like I said above, because he wanted to punish Lucius.

could someone please tell me what tonks patronus changed to? harry said when she said the thing about lupin it finally came together (the patronus and stuff) but i was like what??? her patronus was four-legged and was big. thats not a werewolf. i am really confused....

could someone please tell me what tonks patronus changed to? harry said when she said the thing about lupin it finally came together (the patronus and stuff) but i was like what??? her patronus was four-legged and was big. thats not a werewolf. i am really confused....I would think a fully transformed werewolf looks quite like a real wolf. Four-legged and not particularly small creatures. As her new patronus definitely was connected to Remus, I don't see what other choise there could be.

could someone please tell me what tonks patronus changed to? harry said when she said the thing about lupin it finally came together (the patronus and stuff) but i was like what??? her patronus was four-legged and was big. thats not a werewolf. i am really confused....

A real werewolf (not what we saw in the film) is very similar to a wolf - which is why it is difficult to differentiate.

Harry thought it might have been Padfoot when he first saw it which makes us know that it is small enough to be a dog/wolf.

A real werewolf (not what we saw in the film) is very similar to a wolf - which is why it is difficult to differentiate.

Harry thought it might have been Padfoot when he first saw it which makes us know that it is small enough to be a dog/wolf.That's further supported as well - the animagus forms of James and Sirius were large enough to control Lupin as a werewolf; so the werewolf form cannot be significantly larger than a quite large dog.

He used Harry's blood, partly in order to overcome the fact he couldn't touch him...

and partly because of the power he believes Harry has. But it is obviously important to him that he can now touch Harry.

.

The fact that Quirrel died by Harry...he actually committed murder ..already..and it was accidental...and in a way he saw death then..not when Cedric died...Quirrel died...even Harry said that to Slughorn.. he said Quirrel deserved it.... I don't think Voldermort went out of his way to "mess" with Harry until he felt he could "get around" the Quirrel enigma that Harry did...so he was scared of Harry...so scared he wanted him dead and out of the way.

The fact that Quirrel died by Harry...he actually committed murder ..already..and it was accidental...and in a way he saw death then..not when Cedric died...Quirrel died...even Harry said that to Slughorn.. he said Quirrel deserved it.... I don't think Voldermort went out of his way to "mess" with Harry until he felt he could "get around" the Quirrel enigma that Harry did...so he was scared of Harry...so scared he wanted him dead and out of the way.I don't believe Harry killed Quirrell; Quirrell died when Voldemort abandoned him. The possession process was fatal anyway, Voldemort said so. Small animals died quickly; people died much more slowly, but Quirrell was doomed from the moment Voldemort possessed him. Harry was unconscious when Quirrell died so he didn't see it happen - we know that because he was still concerned when awoke that Quirrell might have gotten the stone; Dumbledore had to assure Harry that it was safe.

Voldemort says himself he doesn't think Harry has anything special about him - in CoS he 'learns' it's just the protection from Lily that caused all the trouble. By using Harry's blood he ensures he can get past that protection. Once he has done that, he's not concerned about Harry any longer - not frightened at all. What he does want to do is publically kill the boy to demonstrate that there is no one to prevent his return to full power. He has to establish that in front of the DE's right from the start.

Priori Incantatem - like the protection, something he couldn't foresee - prevents him from killing Harry as he wished. Once more, that's something external to Harry though, so once more Volemort is convinced Harry doesn't have anything special about him that he, V, needs to worry about.

It's not until OotP that he begins to sense there's something he doesn't understand - not until he tries to possess Harry. It is after that he shuts Harry out, after that that he begins to show some wariness.

The fact that Quirrel died by Harry...he actually committed murder ..already..and it was accidental...and in a way he saw death then..not when Cedric died...Quirrel died...even Harry said that to Slughorn.. he said Quirrel deserved it.... I don't think Voldermort went out of his way to "mess" with Harry until he felt he could "get around" the Quirrel enigma that Harry did...so he was scared of Harry...so scared he wanted him dead and out of the way.

No, Harry didn't kill Quirrell, if this is what you are getting at. When Voldemort left Quirrell's body, Quirrell died then. Harry also nearly died...

He felt Quirrell's arm wrenched from his grasp, knew all was lost, and fell into blackness, down...down...down. "He left Quirrell to die; he shows just as little mercy to his followers as his enemies".

(in hospital ward between DD and Harry). "It was you". "I feared I might be too late" "You nearly were, I couldn't have kept him off the Stone much longer - " "Not the Stone, boy, you - the effort involved nearly killed you. For one terrible moment there, I was afraid it had. As for the Stone, it has been destroyed"

I don't believe Harry killed Quirrell; Quirrell died when Voldemort abandoned him. The possession process was fatal anyway, Voldemort said so. Small animals died quickly; people died much more slowly, but Quirrell was doomed from the moment Voldemort possessed him. Harry was unconscious when Quirrell died so he didn't see it happen - we know that because he was still concerned when awoke that Quirrell might have gotten the stone; Dumbledore had to assure Harry that it was safe.

Voldemort says himself he doesn't think Harry has anything special about him - in CoS he 'learns' it's just the protection from Lily that caused all the trouble. By using Harry's blood he ensures he can get past that protection. Once he has done that, he's not concerned about Harry any longer - not frightened at all. What he does want to do is publically kill the boy to demonstrate that there is no one to prevent his return to full power. He has to establish that in front of the DE's right from the start.

Priori Incantatem - like the protection, something he couldn't foresee - prevents him from killing Harry as he wished. Once more, that's something external to Harry though, so once more Volemort is convinced Harry doesn't have anything special about him that he, V, needs to worry about.

It's not until OotP that he begins to sense there's something he doesn't understand - not until he tries to possess Harry. It is after that he shuts Harry out, after that that he begins to show some wariness.

Welcome to the debate - and thanks!

Have we seen Snape's patronus? If not, what do you think it is?

If Snape is an animagus, and surely he must be, what animal would you make him?

What makes you so sure he's an animagi? I guess if he was he would be a bat, we get a ton of references to him as a bat, I think that would be his patronus too. I think there are probably whole threads on this somewhere, have a search!

I have a strange question . . . in DD's memory of meeting Tom Riddle for the first time at the orphanage, we have a desciption of an old-fashioned London street:
"There I am," said Dumbledore brightly, pointing ahead of them to a tall figure crossing the road in front of a horse-drawn milk cart. Is this accurate for London during the mid 1930's? Were milk carts still being pulled by horses?

I have a strange question . . . in DD's memory of meeting Tom Riddle for the first time at the orphanage, we have a desciption of an old-fashioned London street:
"There I am," said Dumbledore brightly, pointing ahead of them to a tall figure crossing the road in front of a horse-drawn milk cart. Is this accurate for London during the mid 1930's? Were milk carts still being pulled by horses?
In the 1930's in The US ... milk carts were still pulled by horses I think :), the assembly line format for making cars happened in the 1920's which did bring the cost of the automobile down ... but we hadn't gotten the "Trucking" industry on board with it yet.

I have a strange question . . . in DD's memory of meeting Tom Riddle for the first time at the orphanage, we have a desciption of an old-fashioned London street:
"There I am," said Dumbledore brightly, pointing ahead of them to a tall figure crossing the road in front of a horse-drawn milk cart. Is this accurate for London during the mid 1930's? Were milk carts still being pulled by horses?
Cars weren't too popular until late 1950's in Canada, so I can't see them too popular elsewhere.

My Grandparents used a horse and sled in Upstate New York well into the 80's during the Winter.

I did look up the history of the Automobile ... Automobiles weren't generally used in the 30's ... you had to be quite wealthy to have one, usually for hauling larger items one would use a horse and a cart. The utilization of the Auto wasn't full scale until the 50's

Does anyone know what Fudge was talking about when he told the minister that Voldermort would blackmail him if he didn't let him blow up that bridge or something like that?When I first read your post I didn't know what your were talking about. :huh: Now I've checked in my copy of HBP and I found the reference. It's on p. 12 of the Scholastic version.

I'd say that Voldemort wanted Fudge to step aside so that he could take over everything. He threatened a mass muggle killing if Fudge didn't capitulate. Fudge refused and Voldemort destroyed the Brockdale Bridge.

I hope this helps. :blush:

Thanks everyone for your answers to my question! I guess I thought it was strange because London is such a big city - it would seem they would be the first to use trucks, and 1935 seems so very close to WWII in my mind . . .

Horse-drawn milk carts were in fact used in London as late as the 1950s. This one is in the Science Museum, having been used by the Fulham United Dairies Depot until 1957:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Sharoncom/milkcart.jpg

Is this accurate for London during the mid 1930's? Were milk carts still being pulled by horses?
Horse drawn deliveries carried on well after WWII even in London - then milk floats went electric

My mum remembers horse-drawn milk floats. My grandfather used to follow them to collect free manure for his roses!

Where was the vanishing cabinet prior to Peeves dropping a floor above Filch's office (as a distraction) in CoS? Is this when it broke, or was it already in the RoR and broken?

Where was the vanishing cabinet prior to Peeves dropping a floor above Filch's office (as a distraction) in CoS? Is this when it broke, or was it already in the RoR and broken?
The only times I recall reading about the cabinet were Peeves dropping it, Montague being shoved into it by the twins, and finally in the RoR.

The VC must have been in an accessible place for the Twins to push Montague into it. In fact, it had to be right near Montague for them to be able to grab him before he finished deducting the points. So, I don't think it could have been in the RoR.

My guess is that once it was reported that Montague was pushed into the cabinet, it was stored in the RoR to keep it away from students.

The only times I recall reading about the cabinet were Peeves dropping it, Montague being shoved into it by the twins, and finally in the RoR.

The VC must have been in an accessible place for the Twins to push Montague into it. In fact, it had to be right near Montague for them to be able to grab him before he finished deducting the points. So, I don't think it could have been in the RoR.

My guess is that once it was reported that Montague was pushed into the cabinet, it was stored in the RoR to keep it away from students.
I believe that had Peeves not dropped it in CoS that it would have worked just fine when the twins shoved Montague into it and he would have ended up in Borgan& burke's store three years earlier than JkR intended .

I believe that had Peeves not dropped it in CoS that it would have worked just fine when the twins shoved Montague into it and he would have ended up in Borgan& burke's store three years earlier than JkR intended .
But if that had been the case surely at least one of the students (not to say Fred and George) would have discovered the connection and have used it as a quick way out of the school

Didn't Malfoy talk about it in HBP where he discussed it over with the student who got stuck in it ..and he made the connection and then tried using it himself..I think we even saw him going to B&B to abuse that guy with talk of fetching Voldermort on him.

Right, but where was it before Peeves dropped it a floor above Filch's office in CoS. Harry needed a distraction and Nick talked Peeves into making one. And did it work before it was dropped by Peeves or is that what broke it?

Right, but where was it before Peeves dropped it a floor above Filch's office in CoS. Harry needed a distraction and Nick talked Peeves into making one. And did it work before it was dropped by Peeves or is that what broke it?
I always thought that it broke when Peeves dropped it. If that was the case, then this dangerous, broken, magical object was out in the open where anyone could (and did) use it with unfortunate consequences. From CoS to OotP is four years; a long time for no one to notice that it was malfunctioning. I say malfunctioning, because Filch might have repaired the woodwork without realizing the magic was out of kilter. If he did, then it would look like an ordinary wooden cabinet sitting innocently in a corridor.

Yes I agree that it broke when Peeves dropped it. But would Filch have repaired the woodwork? I think he might have had too much on his hands dealing with fanged frisbees and muddy floors to notice a possible route into the castle.

Yes I agree that it broke when Peeves dropped it. But would Filch have repaired the woodwork? I think he might have had too much on his hands dealing with fanged frisbees and muddy floors to notice a possible route into the castle.
I wasn't thinking of it so much as a route into the castle, just as a dangerous object in general; particularly as F&G used it. I'm sure Filch wouldn't think of it as a route into the castle, either, but he might have fixed the cabinet itself without knowing the magic was not working properly. He is a squib and wouldn't even know about it. I'm surprised, though, that he wouldn't report it to Dumbledore. You know how quick he is to report any misdeeds, especially by Peeves.

I'm sure he told Dumbledore about the broken cabinet! Peeves smashed it and he had gleefully discussed with Mrs Norris that this is a reason to throw Peeves out of Hogwarts.
It's possible that the second of the pair was sold when the one did not work properly anymore, and either no one realised that ther was still a connection or the Hogwarts cabinet 'recovered'. But the Weasly twins said that it might take ages for Montegue to get out, I don't think they are stupid enough to step into a cabinet without knowing where or if or when they might come out. But it wouldn't suprise me if they had been looking for someone to 'test' it for ages.

One question I have. I may not have thought about it properly, but if someone understand what I'm talking about....anyway, here it is:

Why wasn't a Horcrux destroyed when the Avada Kedavra backfired at Godrics Hollow? I think I might have problems with this because I guess I'm imagining horcruxes like items in the vending machine: when one is destroyed, another moves into its places at the front. So why didn't one get destroyed when he attacked Harry? Why didn't one get destroyed and another just keep him alive? Is the main piece of soul (the one in the body) indestructable until the others have been destroyed?

One question I have. I may not have thought about it properly, but if someone understand what I'm talking about....anyway, here it is:

Why wasn't a Horcrux destroyed when the Avada Kedavra backfired at Godrics Hollow? I think I might have problems with this because I guess I'm imagining horcruxes like items in the vending machine: when one is destroyed, another moves into its places at the front. So why didn't one get destroyed when he attacked Harry? Why didn't one get destroyed and another just keep him alive? Is the main piece of soul (the one in the body) indestructable until the others have been destroyed?I don't think we know enough about this to really be definitive but... from what we've seen the horcrux isn't like a ticket back to life - used once and then destroyed. Instead, it seems to act as an anchor for the 'main' soul. There's no 'using up' of a horcrux, instead it just exists and keeps the main soul from death.

I don't think we know enough about this to really be definitive but... from what we've seen the horcrux isn't like a ticket back to life - used once and then destroyed. Instead, it seems to act as an anchor for the 'main' soul. There's no 'using up' of a horcrux, instead it just exists and keeps the main soul from death.Yes, I think it acts to bind the soul to this plane and prevent it passing through the Veil, perhaps because only a whole soul can pass through, not just a fragment.

I'll just add another question that I forgot to type: does Voldemorts awareness automatically stay in the main soul?

Also, when you put it like that, I understand a little more. Jumping from horcrux-to-horcrux to stay alive isn't possible. Thankyou :)

Something completely different:
In chapter 19, Elf tails (p. 395 UK ed.) Dobby said ‘And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter !’
Dumbledore dies falling from the topmost tower, I think that’s too much of a coincidence for JKR.
What do you think?

Also, when you put it like that, I understand a little more. Jumping from horcrux-to-horcrux to stay alive isn't possible. No what keeps Voldemort alive is the hidden horcruxes with the pieces of his soul.

I seem to recall a JKR interview in which she said that Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor, yet I can't find it now. Does such a quote exist, or am I imagining things again? ;)

Something completely different:
In chapter 19, Elf tails (p. 395 UK ed.) Dobby said ‘And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter !’
Dumbledore dies falling from the topmost tower, I think that’s too much of a coincidence for JKR.
What do you think?
Also in the PoA movie is a quote about Ron "throwing himself off the Astronomical Tower". The book quote is a hint I guess. I wonder if the movie thing is put there on purpose, or it's the JKR's "gasp out loud" moment. ;)

I seem to recall a JKR interview in which she said that Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor, yet I can't find it now. Does such a quote exist, or am I imagining things again? ;)I don't know if it's been said anywhere else, but it was mentioned in Mellisa and Emmerson's interview after the HBP release:MA: That sort of shuts down Heir of Gryffindor [theories], as well.

JKR: [Pause.] Yeah. Well - yeah.

MA: Another one bites the dust.

[Laughter]Full Interview Here (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm)

I seem to recall a JKR interview in which she said that Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor, yet I can't find it now. Does such a quote exist, or am I imagining things again? (Love the avatar!) Yes, I'm sure I remember that interview too. *goes to look* Edit: See above!

It was in the Mnet/TLC interview. It wasn't entirely definitive, but enough for me to give up on the idea. MA: What about Harry's family — his grandparents — were they killed?

JKR: No. This takes us into more mundane territory. As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.

MA: That sort of shuts down Heir of Gryffindor [theories], as well.

JKR: [Pause.] Yeah. Well - yeah.

MA: Another one bites the dust.

[Laughter]

I thought that when the AK rebounded in Godrics Hollow it destroyed the bit of soul left in Voldemort - but he didn't die because of the horcruxes. So he can be AK'd endlessly and still uurvive until the last horcrux is destroyed.

I thought that when the AK rebounded in Godrics Hollow it destroyed the bit of soul left in Voldemort - but he didn't die because of the horcruxes. So he can be AK'd endlessly and still uurvive until the last horcrux is destroyed.So it seems. But does it mean that he is now walking and talking without a single part of his soul dwelling within his body? That would make him appear as dementor-kissed, wouldn't it? If he is somehow communicating with the horcrux parts of it, one might think he knows when they are destroyed. The diary he was told about, but the ring? Or is one horcrux soul-part automatically withdrawn every time he dies? If so, one of the four remaining horcruxes ought to have ceased to be one.

I'm afraid we have more questions than answers here.

I got the impression that the entire soul must pass into the "beyond." The bits of soul trapped within a Horcrux aren't free to pass into the "beyond" and this is how a Horcrux allows one not to die. I thought that when the AK rebounded on Voldemort in Godric's Hollow that his body was destroyed, but his soul was tied to this world because of the Horcruxes. It was the "free" part of Voldemort's soul that became Vapormort and eventually possessed Quirrell. It was this part of his soul that was reborn into a new body at the end of GoF. At least, that's the impression I got.

I got the impression that the entire soul must pass into the "beyond." The bits of soul trapped within a Horcrux aren't free to pass into the "beyond" and this is how a Horcrux allows one not to die. I thought that when the AK rebounded on Voldemort in Godric's Hollow that his body was destroyed, but his soul was tied to this world because of the Horcruxes. It was the "free" part of Voldemort's soul that became Vapormort and eventually possessed Quirrell. It was this part of his soul that was reborn into a new body at the end of GoF. At least, that's the impression I got.:agree: His soul was npt destroyed,it became what is known as Vapomort, tied to this world by the bits that were still tied to earthly material, the Horcruxes.

MA: Someone put it to me last night, that if Ginny, with the diary -

JKR: Harry definitely destroyed that piece of soul, you saw it take shape, you saw it destroyed, it’s gone. And Ginny is definitely in no way possessed by Voldemort.
This is what I don't understand. If, according to JKR, Harry destroyed that piece of the soul by destroying the diary, then why wasn't the piece of LV's soul (inside him) destroyed when the spell rebounded onto him in Godrics Hollow. If the soul in the diary was destroyed by simply destroying the diary, then why wasn't the soul in LV destroyed by destroying the vessel within which it was held (ie. his body)? We know LV had to get a new body (GoF).
My feeling on this is that the soul in LV is the core, and that the others are basically keeping it alive. But, I am not sure that makes sense - even to me.

I would love it if someone could shed some light on this idea.

My feeling on this is that the soul in LV is the core, and that the others are basically keeping it alive. But, I am not sure that makes sense - even to me.

I always thought that the part of Voldemort's soul that's still in his body was bigger and stronger than the parts he put in the Horcruxes. When he created them his soul didn't rip the soul in seven equal pieces, but he tears off a bit everytime, making it less powerful, but still stronger than the bits put into the Horcruxes.

Did that make any sense? :lol:

I always thought that the part of Voldemort's soul that's still in his body was bigger and stronger than the parts he put in the Horcruxes. When he created them his soul didn't rip the soul in seven equal pieces, but he tears off a bit everytime, making it less powerful, but still stronger than the bits put into the Horcruxes.

Did that make any sense? :lol:
Hahaha.. Yes, it makes perfect sense! That is exactly what I think.

There is a part where it says that Harry disagreed with Snape over the proper way to deal with Dementors. Well, apart from the Patronus charm, what are the other ways? What was Snape's suggestions? I would be grateful if someone shed some light on this issue.
Apologies if this has been asked.

There is a part where it says that Harry disagreed with Snape over the proper way to deal with Dementors. Well, apart from the Patronus charm, what are the other ways? What was Snape's suggestions? I would be grateful if someone shed some light on this issue.
Apologies if this has been asked.

I've been stumped about this one too. What else can you do? Run away?

What else can you do? Run away?
You could throw Dudley at them to disract them and then run away

You could throw Dudley at them to disract them and then run away
:rotfl: Ickle Dudley ... Dementor Bait :evil:

Perhaps Snape thought that the silvery wisp such as Lupin used on the train would have been sufficient for a powerful wizard. Maybe he was just implying that Harry (and thus his father) had to use a full corporeal patronus, so they weren't as powerful as Snape.

One thing we can be sure of is that Snape was finding another way to put down Harry.

Haha... nice idea on the Dudders toss!! lol. I would chuck Umbridge along with him, just to slow them down a bit more... lol

When I first read that, I thought Snape was just nit-picking. Where is that quote again? HBP is a pretty thick book.. haha. (Oh, I have the Bloomsbury version, so if you have the Scholastic edition, give me the chapter title...). I would like to read it again in context.

I was thinking about this with regards to the Patronus. Snape, although a powerful wizard, would, like Harry, probably have a tough time thinking of a happy memory. He is also less expressive when it comes to emotion. Perhaps a clue is in that... I don't know.
*Goes back to liking the idea of tossing Dudders and Umbridge in their path while running away!*

I was thinking about this with regards to the Patronus. Snape, although a powerful wizard, would, like Harry, probably have a tough time thinking of a happy memory. He is also less expressive when it comes to emotion. Perhaps a clue is in that... I don't know.
Getting into Hogwarts? The day he got his Dark Mark? Snape's or LV's idea of a happy memory has to be a lot different than Harry's.

There is a part where it says that Harry disagreed with Snape over the proper way to deal with Dementors. Well, apart from the Patronus charm, what are the other ways? What was Snape's suggestions? I would be grateful if someone shed some light on this issue.
Apologies if this has been asked.
It is being discussed in the Dealing with Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=72143) thread.

Getting into Hogwarts? The day he got his Dark Mark? Snape's or LV's idea of a happy memory has to be a lot different than Harry's.James and Sirius dead at his feet? :huh:

Maybe...

:rotfl: Ickle Dudley ... Dementor Bait :evil:

Perhaps Snape thought that the silvery wisp such as Lupin used on the train would have been sufficient for a powerful wizard. Maybe he was just implying that Harry (and thus his father) had to use a full corporeal patronus, so they weren't as powerful as Snape.

One thing we can be sure of is that Snape was finding another way to put down Harry.
It could be that SS is just more arrogant than James or Harry ... because he's always aspired to become BETTER than James, but in reality ... he'd just run away from the Dementors like a little scared girl!!!

It could be that SS is just more arrogant than James or Harry
You're right about that. He does think that no one knows more about Potions or DADA than he does, and that he's the only one qualified to decide who's breaking the rules (Harry) and who isn't (Draco).

I was reading the comments on the last page, where their was a lot of joking about what Snape's happy thought would be. It seems that the majority of folks here think that it would a dark and evil memory that would give Snape enough happiness to cast the Patronus charm. Anyway, I got this interview with JKR off the net. It is in the first part of 'Midnight Magic'. [If you would like me to upload it here, let me know and I will. It is 13MB though, and filled with loads of irrelevant stuff. The pieces from the interview only make up a small portion of it. Oh, and although I am sure it is legal to upload this, as I got it from MN when HBP was released, let me know if there is a problem and I won't... :eyebrows: ]
This is what JKR had to say about the Patronus charm in the interview: (I think I have transcribed it properly. The little girl who interviews her is Emma Code (sp?))
Emma: What one spell would you want to bring to life and why?
JKR:Oh.. there are so many aren't there? I think, for me, the outstanding spell is Expecto Patronum. And you know what that does, don't you? It creates the Patronus, it creates a kind of spirit guardian in a way. And, that is partly because of what it does, it's a protector; you could protect yourself and other people that you cared about with a Patronus. But its also because it is such a beautiful spell. You know, the image of the silver Patronus immerging from the wand - I really like that.
My point behind posting this extract from the interview is because I am not sure if a dark memory (albeit one that gives the one casting the spell a certain amount of pleasure) could produce a 'beautiful spell' and a 'spirit guardian'. It would seem a contradiction if it could.
Any opinions?

Not a bad idea. Harry had to produce a really good memory to make one. But what makes someone evil like Voldemort happy, or someone embittered like Snape happy, might be different. Harry dead might make Voldemort happy. He may be joyous about Dumbledore. Snape seeing Voldemort dead might make him happy.

If you want you can link the interview instead of uploading it.

Not a bad idea. Harry had to produce a really good memory to make one. But what makes someone evil like Voldemort happy, or someone embittered like Snape happy, might be different. Harry dead might make Voldemort happy. He may be joyous about Dumbledore. Snape seeing Voldemort dead might make him happy.

If you want you can link the interview instead of uploading it.
Haha.. I would, if I could remember where to find it... lol

You are right about LV and Snape not likely having good, happy memories. I wonder then, if there actually could be another way to fight Dementors then (as was mentioned on the previous page).
You also bring up a good point about how difficult it was for Harry to think of a happy thought strong enough to create his Patronus. He had to find his father in him. In OotP, he had to think of his friends. It seems that producing the Patronus and love seem to be connected (which would also fit with the theme of love in HP). We know from JKR in the MN/TLC interview that Snape was loved by someone. So, maybe that would be the force behind his Patronus, but LV... I don't even know if a Dementor would effect him. I don't think he has much in the line of happy memories to suck out anyway, and he doesn't really have much of a soul either...
Excuse my babbling.. I think better this way.. lol

You are right about LV and Snape not likely having good, happy memories. I wonder then, if there actually could be another way to fight Dementors then (as was mentioned on the previous page).
You also bring up a good point about how difficult it was for Harry to think of a happy thought strong enough to create his Patronus. He had to find his father in him. In OotP, he had to think of his friends. It seems that producing the Patronus and love seem to be connected (which would also fit with the theme of love in HP). We know from JKR in the MN/TLC interview that Snape was loved by someone. So, maybe that would be the force behind his Patronus, but LV... I don't even know if a Dementor would effect him. I don't think he has much in the line of happy memories to suck out anyway, and he doesn't really have much of a soul either...
Excuse my babbling.. I think better this way.. lolHarry was able to produce a Patronus during his OWL by thinking about Umbridge getting sacked . . . sort of a 'negative' happy emotion.

As to Snape's disagreement with Harry over how to fight a Dementor . . . didn't Lupin say that even some qualified wizards have problems producing Patronuses? So . . . perhaps Snape is trying to teach them something else, something easier? Something more like occlumency comes to mind (closing off your emotions so the Dementors have nothing to feed on).

Harry was able to produce a Patronus during his OWL by thinking about Umbridge getting sacked . . . sort of a 'negative' happy emotion. Good point!

But most of the time...when Harry really needed to be "happy" and really wasn't in a position to be "happy.." for instance when he and Dudley where "um" kind of tied up at the moment...it was not being able to tell Ron and Hermione something...or saying goodbye...or seeing Sirius...and it was enough..his "Love" saved him yet again.

Harry was able to produce a Patronus during his OWL by thinking about Umbridge getting sacked . . . sort of a 'negative' happy emotion.

As to Snape's disagreement with Harry over how to fight a Dementor . . . didn't Lupin say that even some qualified wizards have problems producing Patronuses? So . . . perhaps Snape is trying to teach them something else, something easier? Something more like occlumency comes to mind (closing off your emotions so the Dementors have nothing to feed on).
I think there is a difference between casting a Patronus when there are Dementors around, though. Harry did say, during the DA meeting when he was teaching them, that it was not the same thing (to lazy to look for the quote). I have a feeling that to cast the Patronus when Dementors are around must take a lot more.

I loved your idea about Snape using something like Occlumency. It would be something that both he and LV could use effectively; and, what Sirius said about Dementors would then fit in perfectly too. Here is the quote:
'...Dementors can't see you know...' He swallowed. 'They feel their way towards people by sensing their emotions...'
To be completely honest, I think you have solved the question!

Something more like occlumency comes to mind (closing off your emotions so the Dementors have nothing to feed on).That's my guess. It wouldn't protect against a kiss, but otherwise occlumency might block out some dementor affects. And it does sound like the kind of solution Snape would like. And that's why he and Harry would disagree about the best way.

Wow! Thanks for that insight. Good work! So by using Occlumency you would be effectively hiding from the Dementor or starving it rather than repelling it.

Wow! Thanks for that insight. Good work! So by using Occlumency you would be effectively hiding from the Dementor or starving it rather than repelling it.
But if your occulmency broke for even a second, it could home in on your and slurp out your soul. So I'm with Harry on how to deal with them.

And given that Occlumency appears to be a very difficult skill to learn (even Our Hero couldn't get it right!) it's not such a very good defence for most wizards.

And given that Occlumency appears to be a very difficult skill to learn (even Our Hero couldn't get it right!) it's not such a very good defence for most wizards.

Maybe it's easier with someone other than Snape teaching you. I mean, he never did tell Harry HOW to close his mind, just to do it.

This whole Occlumency theory really rocks. It probably is what Snape was thinking about. I wish JKR had included it.

But remember, Sirius turned into a dog..and that was how he escaped Askerban...so if Harry could become an animagus..he too would have a defence besides producing a patronus against dementors. I can just see Hermione turn into an otter.

I think there is a difference between casting a Patronus when there are Dementors around, though. Harry did say, during the DA meeting when he was teaching them, that it was not the same thing (to lazy to look for the quote). I have a feeling that to cast the Patronus when Dementors are around must take a lot more.
I looked up the Dudley Demented chapter in OotP. Harry was only able to shoot out two silvery wisps at the dementors. Then he thought it was over and he'd never see Ron or Hermione again. As their faces floated before him, he tried one more time and was able to do the spell.

It's obvious it's very difficult to summon up a happy thought when dementors are close enough to suck them all out of you. But Harry is very strong mentally ... he can even throw off the Imperius Curse and blocked Snape's legilimency ... so I think for someone like Harry, the Patronus is the better way to fight dementors.

But what about other people who can't do the Patronus when under actual attack or Occlumency? Is there a third way that Snape might know about that doesn't take as much skill?

Run like hell.

Run like hell.
Now we're getting somewhere. :rotfl:

How about that fire thing Dumbledore did against the Inferi?

An intense cold swept over them all. Harry felt his own breath catch in his chest. The cold went deeper than his skin. It was inside his chest, it was inside his very heart ...
PoA, US Paperback, Page 83

If the dementors can cause that kind of cold, bone-chilling feeling, might not fire be an antidote?

That's an interesting idea. I wonder if we'll have a chance to see it in action.

How about that fire thing Dumbledore did against the Inferi?

Quote:
An intense cold swept over them all. Harry felt his own breath catch in his chest. The cold went deeper than his skin. It was inside his chest, it was inside his very heart ...
PoA, US Paperback, Page 83That is an interesting point, but somehow, I don't think so. I think conjuring fire is a lot easier than conjuring the Patronus. I think, considering the situation, Lupin would have taught Harry the easiest method. So I am inclinded to think that fire won't work. Maybe it will slow them down, to give you time to 'run like hell', though... :rotfl:
And given that Occlumency appears to be a very difficult skill to learn (even Our Hero couldn't get it right!) it's not such a very good defence for most wizards.
I thought you might be interested to read what JKR said about studying Occlumency, and why Harry wasn't any good at it (as opposed to Draco, and inadvertantly, Snape).
Draco did a lot of growing up in this book as well. I had an interesting discussion, I thought, with my editor Emma, about Draco. She said to me, "So, Malfoy can do Occlumency," which obviously Harry never mastered and has now pretty much given up on doing, or attempting. And she was querying this and wondering whether he should be as good as it, but I think Draco would be very gifted in Occlumency, unlike Harry. Harry’s problem with it was always that his emotions were too near the surface and that he is in some ways too damaged. But he's also very in touch with his feelings about what's happened to him. He's not repressed, he's quite honest about facing them, and he couldn't suppress them, he couldn't suppress these memories. But I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalizing his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself.
I think JKR explains this far better than I ever could. So, all of the above, with the fact that Snape was his teacher, equals, one thing Harry can't do.

That's an interesting quote Zorro
So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater?
Seems that she is confirming he's a DE which I don't think is explicit in the book

Seems that she is confirming he's a DE which I don't think is explicit in the bookThat's what I thought to! lol.
She does seem to be confirming it. It was implied in the books, although never proved.

Interestingly enough, I think the fact that a patronus is "very advanced magic" and occlumency is not very common among the average wizard/witch is a very good reason why Madam Rosmerta was annoyed with Fudge for allowing them to patrol the streets of Hogsmeade. Obviously it cut down on business. I think people just generally try to avoid them at all costs. Of course, I also think that some adult wizards could probably fend off against one dementor at a time if they took the time to bother with the charm (learning and practicing you know). I just don't think that dementor attacks were quite that common, though now they are more so b/c VM is giving them free reign. Remember in book 6 Bill and Lupin talking about dementor attacks? More proof for your theories of 1) the average wizard not being prepared against dementors and 2) that there probably isn't another way to fend them off other than the patronus, and likely occlumency as well. Occlumency would probably keep them from attacking at all (as they feed on thoughts) and the patronus would stop them once they decide to attack.

The fire idea is an interesting one - Hermione was able to cast a fire spell (albeit a small one) as a first year! But the ring of fire... we've only seen DD do that one so perhaps it is another example of advanced magic... ?

That is an interesting point, but somehow, I don't think so. I think conjuring fire is a lot easier than conjuring the Patronus. I think, considering the situation, Lupin would have taught Harry the easiest method. So I am inclinded to think that fire won't work. Maybe it will slow them down, to give you time to 'run like hell', though... :rotfl:
Or maybe Lupin wanted to teach Harry the most effective method, if it was at all possible for him to learn it.

Also, Lupin said:

I don't pretend to be an expert at fighting dementors, Harry ... quite the contrary ...
PoA US paperback, Page 189
That might imply that there were other methods, along with Snape and Harry's disagreement.

That's an interesting quote Zorro

Seems that she is confirming he's a DE which I don't think is explicit in the book
Good catch. We needed confirmation.

Can someone remind me about this disagreement between Snape and Harry over dementors? I don't remember it at all! :blush: :huh:

Can someone remind me about this disagreement between Snape and Harry over dementors? I don't remember it at all! It was just a sentence, I think, regarding Harry's homework. About halfway through the book?

Thanks! I'll have to hunt that one down now! :)

So in essence...bullies have suppressed emotions...but the desire to hurt..and to inflict pain brings them joy....but they can still cry to Moaning Mertle?...sounds like someone spoiled rotten really.

It was just a sentence, I think, regarding Harry's homework. About halfway through the book?
yes, i just read it last night, i think its in or around he chapter "The Unknowable Room"

So in essence...bullies have suppressed emotions...but the desire to hurt..and to inflict pain brings them joy....but they can still cry to Moaning Mertle?...sounds like someone spoiled rotten really.
Spoiled rotten, or perhaps with a deep inner conflict. He wants to be on the side of evil because of his family background, and because he thinks it looks 'cool'. But when he gets into the real thing he realises that its dangerous, and scary, and perhaps he doesn't want to do it after all.

From the looks of how Voldermort takes weakness...he's a plucked goose....I suspect JK will have Voldermort...make sausage out of him...along with his mum.

If that is the case, will Snape's Vow be broken?

I was reading the comments on the last page, where their was a lot of joking about what Snape's happy thought would be. It seems that the majority of folks here think that it would a dark and evil memory that would give Snape enough happiness to cast the Patronus charm. Anyway, I got this interview with JKR off the net. It is in the first part of 'Midnight Magic'. [If you would like me to upload it here, let me know and I will. It is 13MB though, and filled with loads of irrelevant stuff. The pieces from the interview only make up a small portion of it. Oh, and although I am sure it is legal to upload this, as I got it from MN when HBP was released, let me know if there is a problem and I won't... :eyebrows: ]
This is what JKR had to say about the Patronus charm in the interview: (I think I have transcribed it properly. The little girl who interviews her is Emma Code (sp?))
Emma: What one spell would you want to bring to life and why?
JKR:Oh.. there are so many aren't there? I think, for me, the outstanding spell is Expecto Patronum. And you know what that does, don't you? It creates the Patronus, it creates a kind of spirit guardian in a way. And, that is partly because of what it does, it's a protector; you could protect yourself and other people that you cared about with a Patronus. But its also because it is such a beautiful spell. You know, the image of the silver Patronus immerging from the wand - I really like that.
My point behind posting this extract from the interview is because I am not sure if a dark memory (albeit one that gives the one casting the spell a certain amount of pleasure) could produce a 'beautiful spell' and a 'spirit guardian'. It would seem a contradiction if it could.
Any opinions?I am wondering if Voldemort or Snape would need a Patronus. They certainly don't seem to be affected by the Dementors as much. What was it that Lupin says to Harry in PoA about (Sorry, I don't have my book with me) becoming like the Dementors glorying in the terror they spread. That would certainly be true for Voldemort.

I am wondering if Voldemort or Snape would need a Patronus. They certainly don't seem to be affected by the Dementors as much. What was it that Lupin says to Harry in PoA about (Sorry, I don't have my book with me) becoming like the Dementors glorying in the terror they spread. That would certainly be true for Voldemort.
Snape was going on for ages about fools who wear their hearts on their sleeves. I think that the more you do that kind of thing the easier it is for the Dementors to effect you. Poor Harry was getting a double whamy!
Voldemort would remember the night he was blown apart by the Boy Who Lived.

yes, i just read it last night, i think its in or around he chapter "The Unknowable Room"
Thank you! :) Lots of help for the lazy fan... :elaugh: (that's me today!)

If that is the case, will Snape's Vow be broken?
Isn't it already broken b/c the deed is done? Wasn't it specific to watching over him as he tried to carry out a certain deed? That's a good question.

I am wondering if Voldemort or Snape would need a Patronus. They certainly don't seem to be affected by the Dementors as much. What was it that Lupin says to Harry in PoA about (Sorry, I don't have my book with me) becoming like the Dementors glorying in the terror they spread. That would certainly be true for Voldemort.
Snape would need a Patronus to communicate with the Order unless he always had another way to do so and no one seemed to question it. The Order members use their Patronus' to communicate so that the recipient always knows who the sender is - you can't fake a Patronus according to JKR. Besides, I think Snape is the type to not want any spell to get the best of him.

So was the pheonix feather thing at Privet drive, DD's pet...or his patronus, or something else? Remember Lupin was waiting for a sign to know it was time to leave...so what was it?

Snape was going on for ages about fools who wear their hearts on their sleeves. I think that the more you do that kind of thing the easier it is for the Dementors to effect you. Poor Harry was getting a double whamy!
Voldemort would remember the night he was blown apart by the Boy Who Lived.No, No! I'm not saying Snape and Voldemort will be more easily affected by Dementors over time. I'm saying they will be LESS likely to be affected. They're not as easily overwhelmed by bad memories. Actually I'm talking more about Voldemort than Snape. :huh:

So was the pheonix feather thing at Privet drive, DD's pet...or his patronus, or something else? Remember Lupin was waiting for a sign to know it was time to leave...so what was it?Probably it was just what it seemed - a feather from Fawkes. He's the only phoenix in the series so they can't be a terribly common species, so a distinctive feather makes a subtle but unmistakable signal that couldn't be easily faked.

So was the pheonix feather thing at Privet drive, DD's pet...or his patronus, or something else? Remember Lupin was waiting for a sign to know it was time to leave...so what was it?
It was how DD used Fawkes to communicated. Remmeber in OOTP when he's got Harry and others in his office and he says something about 'we will need a sign' and before Umbridge appears there's a similar flash and a phoenix feather appears?

So was the pheonix feather thing at Privet drive, DD's pet...or his patronus, or something else? Remember Lupin was waiting for a sign to know it was time to leave...so what was it?
It wasn't a feather. It was red sparks in the sky (1st one), and then green sparks (2nd, the one Lupin was waiting for).

Got another question...maybe stupid...but here it goes...

WHY does DD have a password to his rooms when the head room teachers don't but the common rooms do. Is it to keep out the riffraff..(students) and some (teachers) others? Only certain people gen in and not having an intercome system...even principals have secretaries that carry messages to principals. Are children not allowed to go to the headmaster..only to "the McGonagals of the school?"

I'm sure he has a password because as they say in the books, its not just his office, it's where he lives. And I'm sure there are things he wouldn't want students to see or get into (like the pensive) and we still don't know what most of his silver instruments were for. Students are probably expected to go to their heads of house, and if the head of house thinks its necessary, they'll take them to the headmaster.

HMMMM...but thinking of all the times Harry has run there (luckily he can think of something that will open the door...like Cockroach clusters...) and he can't get in..and runs into someone like Snape...but then he couldn't trust Crouch or Moody or the first two DAD teachers.... sounds like DD surrounds himself with really good (saracastic) role models for Harry. On the whole..Harry is right... he can find friends for himself..and judge them...better than DD can!

Got another question...maybe stupid...but here it goes...

WHY does DD have a password to his rooms when the head room teachers don't but the common rooms do. Is it to keep out the riffraff..(students) and some (teachers) others? Only certain people gen in and not having an intercome system...even principals have secretaries that carry messages to principals. Are children not allowed to go to the headmaster..only to "the McGonagals of the school?"

I think that the students are meant to see their heads of houses in the first instance and they can then arrange for them to see the head. DD is probably has information inside his office that he wouldn't want any uninvited person to see so he would have to grant access.

He is probably notified if someone is able to get through the door by using the password.

I have another question: Grawp was at the funeral. He'd been kept hidden before, the way the situation was treated by the Trio made me assume smuggling giants was illegal - so how come he was at the funeral? With the Minister and Umbridge and billions of other people.

Harry said he has seen someone sending messages with Patronus before when Tonks send one. But I couldn't find where. Can anyone point me to it?

I have another question: Grawp was at the funeral. He'd been kept hidden before, the way the situation was treated by the Trio made me assume smuggling giants was illegal - so how come he was at the funeral? With the Minister and Umbridge and billions of other people.

Grawp is only half a giant right..or totally giant..he's Hagrid's half brother..his mother's blood..but father is another giant...I think JK said it was a play on "grow-up" cause he was smaller than most giants (Grawp). But Hagrid thought he had learned enough language skills and was "socially acceptable" to attend a funeral...But I'll bet Hagrid made sure he was well fed before attending...too bad...Umbridge would have made a nice lunch!
:huh:

Harry said he has seen someone sending messages with Patronus before when Tonks send one. But I couldn't find where. Can anyone point me to it?


That's easy...DD sent a patronus to Hagrid during GoF when he met with Harry and Krum out by the Forest with Crouch that was being hidden under the invisibility cloak and he sent word to Hagrid. Out came a vapor, it went very fast..but it was the phonix...and then Moody/Crouch, Jr. came out to talk to DD and told him he would look for the body of Couch, Sr...then he took the body and turned it into a bone and buried it out by Hagrid's hut.

Also Lupin sent word via patronus to McGonagal on the train to let her know about Harry's fainting spell. We just didn't read about it.

DD told Harry he had other ways than fireplaces to converse with fellow wizards in GoF.

Harry said he has seen someone sending messages with Patronus before when Tonks send one. But I couldn't find where. Can anyone point me to it?
In GoF when Harry and Dumbledore are looking for Crouch Sr (Chapter the Madness of Crouch) and they find the stunned Krum. Dumbledore summons Hagrid using his Patronus. Does that help?

Umm...if Snape and Voldemort actually produced a Patronus, would the patronus not just attack its creator? I think I read in an interview or on JKRowling.com that a Patronus is an anti-dark magic device, and both Snape and Voldemort are filled with dark magic...

Umm...if Snape and Voldemort actually produced a Patronus, would the patronus not just attack its creator? I think I read in an interview or on JKRowling.com that a Patronus is an anti-dark magic device, and both Snape and Voldemort are filled with dark magic...
Maybe that is why we haven't seen Snape's patronus to date...we think we've seen him contacting people...funny..McGonagal sends for Snape during the battle with the DE's while DD is away with Harry in the cave.... Wouldn't it have been faster to have had her patronus send for Snape, unless if she felt he was sleeping he'd miss it....hummmmm... possibly...

Snape definitely had a patronus, because that is what the Order use to communicate.

Snape definitely had a patronus, because that is what the Order use to communicate.
The Order use Patronuses to communicate, Snape was in the order. Does not mean that Snape ever actually used a Patronus. After all, he couldn't do all the things other Order members could do for fear of blowing his cover with Voldemort (we are never told if he went to MoM, he didn't come to pick up Harry, for instance).

The Order use Patronuses to communicate, Snape was in the order. Does not mean that Snape ever actually used a Patronus. After all, he couldn't do all the things other Order members could do for fear of blowing his cover with Voldemort (we are never told if he went to MoM, he didn't come to pick up Harry, for instance).
I have a little question:

It's the part about apparitions, how you can take the test on your 17th birthday and Ron's birthday which occurs shortly thereafter. He mentions some weird watch and how he's coming of age a year later, which doesn't make sense. Can someone clarify?

The Order use Patronuses to communicate, Snape was in the order. Does not mean that Snape ever actually used a Patronus. After all, he couldn't do all the things other Order members could do for fear of blowing his cover with Voldemort (we are never told if he went to MoM, he didn't come to pick up Harry, for instance).
We know he communicated with Sirius at the end of OotP, and it is logical to assume that he used his Patronus to do so, especially since Dumbledore referred to the Order having a better method of communication when he was discussing the evening's events with Harry afterwards. We know that Snape was not at the MoM, but I hardly think the odd Patronus would blow his cover with Voldemort, unless he used them at DE meetings!

We know he communicated with Sirius at the end of OotP, and it is logical to assume that he used his Patronus to do so, especially since Dumbledore referred to the Order having a better method of communication when he was discussing the evening's events with Harry afterwards. We know that Snape was not at the MoM, but I hardly think the odd Patronus would blow his cover with Voldemort, unless he used them at DE meetings! Very true. And also it wouldn't exactly blow his cover that he's communicating with Order members, since DEs know he's a double agent. I think he couldn't go to the ministry because that way he would be openly fighting for one side or another, giving away his allegiance before it was necessary.

It's the part about apparitions, how you can take the test on your 17th birthday and Ron's birthday which occurs shortly thereafter. He mentions some weird watch and how he's coming of age a year later, which doesn't make sense. Can someone clarify?Ron liked his birthday presents so much that he made a joke about coming of age next year too.

I have a little question:

It's the part about apparitions, how you can take the test on your 17th birthday and Ron's birthday which occurs shortly thereafter. He mentions some weird watch and how he's coming of age a year later, which doesn't make sense. Can someone clarify?

I'm not sure that I'm understranding everything you're asking but I hope I can be of some help. In the wizarding world one comes of age at 17. At this point, one can obtain an apperating licence. In the chapter "Birthday Suprises" Ron turns 17, coming of age. When receiving the watch, he says not that he will come of age in one year but that he wishes he could come of age again in one year (because his coming of age got him so many great gifts). Then a few chapters later, Ron takes the appiration test.

EDIT: Anabel beat me to it.

I'm not sure that I'm understranding everything you're asking but I hope I can be of some help. In the wizarding world one comes of age at 17. At this point, one can obtain an apperating licence. In the chapter "Birthday Suprises" Ron turns 17, coming of age. When receiving the watch, he says not that he will come of age in one year but that he wishes he could come of age again in one year (because his coming of age got him so many great gifts). Then a few chapters later, Ron takes the appiration test.

EDIT: Anabel beat me to it.

ahh, thanks. I musta read it wrong... the several times I read it. Good thing I'm not in school anymore.

We know he communicated with Sirius at the end of OotP, and it is logical to assume that he used his Patronus to do so, especially since Dumbledore referred to the Order having a better method of communication when he was discussing the evening's events with Harry afterwards. We know that Snape was not at the MoM, but I hardly think the odd Patronus would blow his cover with Voldemort, unless he used them at DE meetings!
Good point about the communication with Sirius. This brings up something interesting, though....since the Patronus is a "light" charm that repels evil, and it's been said it's difficult for dark wizards to perform -- does that mean Snape (at least at this point) is on the good side? However, Snape obviously gives the DADA class instructions on dealing with dementors other than the Patronus charm (book says Harry disagreed with Snape without mentioning details). Does that mean Snape is really on the dark side, or was he just being practical, knowing that many of the students would never be able to conjure a decent Patronus?

Good point about the communication with Sirius. This brings up something interesting, though....since the Patronus is a "light" charm that repels evil, and it's been said it's difficult for dark wizards to perform -- does that mean Snape (at least at this point) is on the good side? However, Snape obviously gives the DADA class instructions on dealing with dementors other than the Patronus charm (book says Harry disagreed with Snape without mentioning details). Does that mean Snape is really on the dark side, or was he just being practical, knowing that many of the students would never be able to conjure a decent Patronus?
Since Lupin said in PoA that "many fully qualified wizards have problems conjuring patronuses", I believe that your last idea is most correct. I would love it if this was proof that Snape really is a baddie, but I don't think that JKR is going to let him be totally evil. :no: He's contributed to the 'good' side just a little too often.