Little Questions Answered

Can someone explain to me the concept of the "secret keeper"? Honestly, I must have skipped over that line in the book when they talked about it because I don't even remember them explaining what a secret keeper is. What book was that first mentioned?

He was born July 31, 1980

Wow. I didn't know he was born in 1980. That would make him 2 years older than me. Does this mean the books take place in the mid-90s?

Can someone explain to me the concept of the "secret keeper"? Honestly, I must have skipped over that line in the book when they talked about it because I don't even remember them explaining what a secret keeper is. What book was that first mentioned?

In POA at was first mentioned, basically it hides where something is, only pople told by the secret keeper where the thing is will be able to find it, otherwise they could walk straight past it and not see it

Hm, this makes sense, thank you! This is well thought.
Sometimes I get the impression, we think more of the possibilities to detect a charm than JK ever did...:eyebrows:

She has said that too. Somewhere on the website? Can't remember. Something about checking the Lexicon for facts that she has forgotten because she knows her readers remember everything she invents better than she does.

Can someone explain to me the concept of the "secret keeper"? Honestly, I must have skipped over that line in the book when they talked about it because I don't even remember them explaining what a secret keeper is. What book was that first mentioned?
The Fidelius Charm, as used on the Potter's house at Godric's Hollow and on 12 Grimmauld Place, places a secret inside a living person - the Secret Keeper. Only the Secret Keeper can divulge the secret - Dumbledore wrote Harry a note which Moody showed him so that he could see 12 Grimmauld Place and enter it. Wormtail was the Potter's Secret Keeper, and betrayed them to Voldemort.

Wow. I didn't know he was born in 1980. That would make him 2 years older than me. Does this mean the books take place in the mid-90s?In CoS Nearly Headless Nick celebrates his 500th Deathday and the date on his cake is 1492. That is the basis of all the timelines, since it reveals that it was 1992 when Harry started his second year at Hogwarts.

In CoS Nearly Headless Nick celebrates his 500th Deathday and the date on his cake is 1492. That is the basis of all the timelines, since it reveals that it was 1992 when Harry started his second year at Hogwarts.

Wow. I *never* caught onto that. So the final book will take places during 1997-98. I wonder if JK will write an epilogue jumping ahead to what Harry would be in real time, meaning 25 or 26.

Wow. I *never* caught onto that. So the final book will take places during 1997-98. I wonder if JK will write an epilogue jumping ahead to what Harry would be in real time, meaning 25 or 26.

If he lives...

Wow. I *never* caught onto that. So the final book will take places during 1997-98. I wonder if JK will write an epilogue jumping ahead to what Harry would be in real time, meaning 25 or 26. She says there will be an epilogue telling what happens to the survivors, what they do in life I guess. I assume that would include Harry, if he lives as Lucybird reminds us.

If he lives...

Ah...yes. That lingering "if". :sad:

Can someone explain to me the concept of the "secret keeper"? Honestly, I must have skipped over that line in the book when they talked about it because I don't even remember them explaining what a secret keeper is. What book was that first mentioned?
"How does that work?" said Madam Rosmerta, breathless with interest. Professor Flitwick cleared his throat.

"An immensely complex spell," he said squeakily, "involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul. The information is hidden inside the chosen person, or Secret-Keeper, and is henceforth impossible to find -- unless, of course, the Secret-Keeper chooses to divulge it. As long as the Secret-Keeper refused to speak, You-Know-Who could search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting room window!"

"So Black was the Potters' Secret-Keeper?" whispered Madam Rosmerta.


Harry and JKR have the same birthday in July. The July birthstone is the ruby which is also the gem associated with Gryffindor.

Hmm, what if, at the end of the seventh book, Harry finds a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone book? THAT would be awkward, and a very sweet twist, hehe.

Hmm, what if, at the end of the seventh book, Harry finds a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone book? THAT would be awkward, and a very sweet twist, hehe.Well thought - this would probably be a horcrux. :)
Little questions anyone?

mmm...

How do you think the Dursleys did manage to send a package by Hedwige to Harry for Christmas in COS? I was puzzled when I read the following:
COS, chapter The Polyjuice Potion: [the present] turned out to be from the Durleys. They had sent Harry a toothpick and a note telling him to find out wether he'd be able to stay at Hogwarts for the summer holidays, too.

I believe there must be a muggle post receiving point for Hogwarts (maybe in the next mugglevillage), and Filch gets the post there, as there are so many muggleborns, and you can't expect all muggleparents to learn how to deal with an owl.

I don't know - I can see Hedwig pecking at them until they finally give her the note and toothpick just to get rid of her!

question to be thrown out: Why was Riddle not adopted? Dumbledore said "of course many would have loved to have had you for a son" but because he needed to be in a house with Lily's blood relative..he could not go...but Riddle...why would they leave a child that was obviously magical and dangerous to be around muggles as he would be doing "strange" things like Harry did ...not be put in a home for witches and wizards...I guess the wizarding world has no real generousity of spirit, social security, taxes to care for their own..not even the older folks...they sort of let the muggle world handle their crisises and older generation...as as they can't work "normal jobs" and receive nothing else than SSI or SSA in US and fair less in the UK...what business do the Wizarding community have for putting the muggles down when "we" push them up on the economic side of life... (of course knowing this is just a book) but just another form of hippocracy.

question to be thrown out: Why was Riddle not adopted? Dumbledore said "of course many would have loved to have had you for a son" but because he needed to be in a house with Lily's blood relative..he could not go...but Riddle...why would they leave a child that was obviously magical and dangerous to be around muggles as he would be doing "strange" things like Harry did ...not be put in a home for witches and wizards...I guess the wizarding world has no real generousity of spirit, social security, taxes to care for their own..not even the older folks...they sort of let the muggle world handle their crisises and older generation...as as they can't work "normal jobs" and receive nothing else than SSI or SSA in US and fair less in the UK...what business do the Wizarding community have for putting the muggles down when "we" push them up on the economic side of life... (of course knowing this is just a book) but just another form of hippocracy.
Well I think everybody wanted to adopt Harry because he was the boy who lived. Tom Riddle was just some baby from a poor sqib (this is what Merope seemed to be to the wizarding world) and a muggle.
And you are right, the wizard world has no generosity of spirit, they don't care.

How do you think the Dursleys did manage to send a package by Hedwige to Harry for Christmas in COS? I was puzzled when I read the following:

I had wondered that as well, but the more I think about Petunia, the more I think she really knows a lot more about Harry's world than she let's Vernon in on.

Why was Riddle not adopted?

I got the feeling that Merope kind of dissappeared into London and that the wizarding world at large didn't really know that much about her. Tom's name would have been on on the list since birth, but that doesn't mean anyone actually knew where he was or who was taking care of him. I'm not as surprised that no one adopted him, but I am surprised that the ministry of magic, once detecting underage magic in the orphanage (or do they only know to look where an underage wizard is living?) didn't do something to remove him from that environment.

I got the feeling that Merope kind of dissappeared into London and that the wizarding world at large didn't really know that much about her. Tom's name would have been on on the list since birth, but that doesn't mean anyone actually knew where he was or who was taking care of him. I'm not as surprised that no one adopted him, but I am surprised that the ministry of magic, once detecting underage magic in the orphanage (or do they only know to look where an underage wizard is living?) didn't do something to remove him from that environment.

But why did Dumbledore go there personally..he sent Hagrid for Harry..and you know how important Harry was...so why did Dumbledore go...only because he knew he was Merope's son..and therefore a Slytherin?

And you are right, the wizard world has no generosity of spirit, they don't care.
The thirties were very different from now. Before legal abortion and the pill (or their magical equivalents) there were far more babies available for adoption than there were people wanting to adopt. And of course there is narrative necessity - if Tom had been adopted he might have learnt about love and hence there would have been no evil dark wizard wanting to take over the world with only Harry Potter to stop him

Wasn't it fifty years ago roughly the time span that Narnia was written where orphans of England were sent to the country of England to find a safe "home" until the bombing of England was over? Just wondering..the time span is similar to that of LV and he would have been an infant perfect for most families who couldn't have them.

The first Narnia book was set in 1939 when the evacuation of children took place.(though published in 1950) Tom was a child in the 1930s when Britain was suffering the same economic difficulties as everywhere else - it was not a good time to be a poor child let alone an orphan. In addition the number of prospective adopters was severely limited by the number of potential fathers killed in the first world war (750,00 in a population of 45 million) Single women were not allowed to adopt then.

But why did Dumbledore go there personally..he sent Hagrid for Harry..and you know how important Harry was...so why did Dumbledore go...only because he knew he was Merope's son..and therefore a Slytherin?

This has been answered before by a very reasonable explanation - Dumbledore was one of the Professors, not the Headmaster. Only the Headmaster, seems to be immune from making these visits. Can you see "the Toad" visiting a muggleborn and explaining the Wizarding World to them? With my luck, I would have gotten her.

But why did Dumbledore go there personally..he sent Hagrid for Harry..and you know how important Harry was...so why did Dumbledore go...only because he knew he was Merope's son..and therefore a Slytherin?


Is already a thread on that. :)
Why did Dumbledore get Tom? (http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=78356)

I agree, it is odd. Plot necessity aside, there is a MOM department for elf relocation, Riddle's name went down at Hogwarts at his birth through the magic pen... why isn't there a department in the MOM for orphaned magic children?

Well, the Gaunts were by then an unknown family living hidden in the woods. Merope was just another stranded girl in London. Harry however was totally famous. So I can imagine that nobody ever knew anything about Tom being in the orphanage, apart from maybe some charmed list which only carrys names and addresses of wizard children. However, the question about Tom doing magic in the orphanage is easily answered - the MOM only seems to care about properly done spells which have to be learned first. Seems like all muggle born wizards are able to do some kind of raw magic as children, like Harry setting the snake loose and things like that, and the MOM didn't go running to their house then, did they?

I have another little question: can Dumbledore speak and understand Parseltongue?
Oh, and, if Tom Riddle could get funds for his books, why don't the Weasleys get some? They are poor...

can Dumbledore speak and understand Parseltongue?
It's discussed here:

Does DD speak Parseltongue or any other languages? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=60406&)

Enjoy!

But why did Dumbledore go there personally..he sent Hagrid for Harry..and you know how important Harry was...so why did Dumbledore go...only because he knew he was Merope's son..and therefore a Slytherin?We need to remember that Dumbledore was NOT headmaster then - only the transfiguration teacher AND Hagrid was only 9 years old and hadn't yet met Dumbledore. There also isn't any indication that Tom would be a Slytherin based just on blood - the hat sorts by what the child values. The reason families tend to run in certain houses probably has more to do with how the child is raised than actual heritage. And an orphan, raised away from his family is least likely to learn their values (hence, most likely to end up in a different house)

We don't know who went to the Grangers to explain the letter to them. Harry was supposed to have known about Hogwarts and the Wizarding world already so I think Hagrid was sent because the letter was apparently undeliverable and Hagrid's sheer size would be both intimidating to the Dursleys and protion for Harry traveling to Diagon Alley. Additionally, Hagrid was already assigned to goto Gringott's for the stone. Taking Harry for his first trip there was also good cover for his other errand (the stone)

I thought of this little question last night as I was trying to sleep:

We learn in OotP that Umbridge sent the Dementors to Little Whinging, in hopes of getting Harry into trouble, thereby discrediting him. If her intention is not for him to have his soul sucked out, but just for him to perform illegal magic, wouldn't she have to know that he can produce a Patronus powerful enough to ward them off? So my question is, where is the Ministry getting this information?

I thought of Percy as a possibilty, as he once saw Harry produce a corporeal Patronus at a Quidditch match.

I also thought of the Dementors as a possiblity, since they have first hand experience dealing with Harry's Patronus.

Which leads me to another little question: how do Ministry officials communicate with Dementors without intense emotional suffering? Is there a special Charm or spell that makes you impervious to a Dementor's effect, without chasing it away?

We learn in OotP that Umbridge sent the Dementors to Little Whinging, in hopes of getting Harry into trouble, thereby discrediting him. If her intention is not for him to have his soul sucked out, but just for him to perform illegal magic, wouldn't she have to know that he can produce a Patronus powerful enough to ward them off? So my question is, where is the Ministry getting this information?
The simplest explanation would be word of mouth. A Patronus is a very advanced piece of magic and the fact that such a young wizard could do it is something that's amazing in itself. The fact that it was performed by THE Harry Potter makes it even more likely to turn up in conversation. We saw evidence of this when Harry was asked in his practical DADA OWLs to perform the spell for extra marks. If the examiner there knew about his abilities then it porbably wouldn't be that hard for Umbridge to have picked it up.

The simplest explanation would be word of mouth. A Patronus is a very advanced piece of magic and the fact that such a young wizard could do it is something that's amazing in itself. The fact that it was performed by THE Harry Potter makes it even more likely to turn up in conversation. We saw evidence of this when Harry was asked in his practical DADA OWLs to perform the spell for extra marks. If the examiner there knew about his abilities then it porbably wouldn't be that hard for Umbridge to have picked it up.


the examiner most likely heard of it because of Harry's trial. the only non TIme Turner related, corporeal Patronus Harry produces is at the Quidditch match when Draco et al dress up as Dementors. Few people really seem to have noticed that it was a Patronus, except Lupin who was expecting it, and the Slytherins who were attacked by it.

....If her intention is not for him to have his soul sucked out, but just for him to perform illegal magic, wouldn't she have to know that he can produce a Patronus powerful enough to ward them off? So my question is, where is the Ministry getting this information?

I thought of Percy as a possibilty, as he once saw Harry produce a corporeal Patronus at a Quidditch match.

I also thought of the Dementors as a possiblity, since they have first hand experience dealing with Harry's Patronus.

Which leads me to another little question: how do Ministry officials communicate with Dementors without intense emotional suffering? Is there a special Charm or spell that makes you impervious to a Dementor's effect, without chasing it away?1) Since I think Umbridge was being influenced by Lucius the entire year (just like her boss Fudge) I think there's a good possibility that getting Harry's soul sucked might have been the point of it all - this was just after Harry had dueled Voldemort in the graveyard.

Minimally, Lucius wanted Harry's wand snapped. Lucius would have had to have put it in terms of her doing what was best for the ministry, that the boy was delusional - perhaps even that Harry could protect himself. Draco also knew about the Patronus - Harry had sent it straight at him (and other Slytherins) when they pretended to be dementors.

2) Considering that Harry apparently disagreed with Snape on how to handle a dementor (we don't hear Snape's opinion - only that Harry thought he wouldn't get a good mark on his essay about this) AND that the DeathEaters that escaped from Azkaban are somewhat sane enough to function AND that Sirius was able to stay sane around them by becoming a dog without 'people' thoughts AND that we know that at least Bella and Snape are Occlumens, who can block someone from seeing their thoughts - I think Occlumency can be a protection from the dementors.

It's discussed here:

Does DD speak Parseltongue or any other languages? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=60406&)

Enjoy!


thanks for that :)

And up pops the next question: Why in the world has Umbridge not been punished/tried or anything for setting the Dementors on Harry? As far as I remember, she admitted doing that in front of several people. So why does she remain in the ministry?
Next thing, she is supposed to not have spoken a single word after her being saved from the centaurs, which points to great shock. yet, when Ron teases her in the hospital wing by making that clip-clapping noise, she answers to Madam Pomphrey quite normally.
Just a thought.

Why in the world has Umbridge not been punished/tried or anything for setting the Dementors on Harry? As far as I remember, she admitted doing that in front of several people. So why does she remain in the ministry?
There's a thread on this and I'll try to find it but the overall conclusion was that there's more important things to worry about right now like the war with LV and her punishment will be discussed afterwards. Right now she has alot of knowledge that'll be useful to the ministry since she oocupies such an important position with it.

EDIT:
A question that's not related to Harry Potter but computer ralated. How do you create a drop-down text?

And up pops the next question: Why in the world has Umbridge not been punished/tried or anything for setting the Dementors on Harry? As far as I remember, she admitted doing that in front of several people. So why does she remain in the ministry? The ministry is completely corrupt. They can explain away her actions to keep her in power. Whoever wields power need not have any moral standards, because the general public goes along with everything and the Daily Prophet propaganda paper spreads the word. This corruption has been consistant throughout the books, from when Dumledore was kicked out of the office of headmaster in CoS. See Corruption in the Ministry of Magic v2.

My Oxford Companion to English Literature (c) 1977 says there was an organization called SPCK or Society for Promotion of Christian Knowledge founded 1698. Just thought it was an interesting parallel.

My Oxford Companion to English Literature (c) 1977 says there was an organization called SPCK or Society for Promotion of Christian Knowledge founded 1698. Just thought it was an interesting parallel.
Interesting parallel or alarming discovery......

Urk!

I read the 6th book again and was puzzled at this...

Hermione had taken the following subjects for her OWLs/O.W.L.s:
- Ancient Runes
- Arithmancy
- Astronomy
- Care of Magical Creatures
- Charms
- Defence Against the Dark Arts
- Herbology
- History of Magic
- Potions
- Transfiguration

She dropped the following subjects at the 3rd year:
- Divination
- Muggle Studies

So that means Hermione had taken 10 subjects, right? But then in the 6th Book, Hermione had gotten 10 "Outstandings" and 1 "Exceeds Expectations" in Defence Against the Dark Arts so that totals up to 11 subjects. Did Hermione take 10 or 11 subjects?

Did she drop Muggle Studies? - I only remember her dropping Divination. Do you remember the scene or quote about Muggle Studies? Besides - as a muggle-born she may actually be allowed to take it for OWL even if she had quit the class.

The only other thing I can think of would be if she took a class that's never been mentioned - can't imagine what it would be, but??? It's not like we've ever seen an Arithmancy or Ancient Runes class (or Muggle Studies even)

Good question!

Too true, the MOM is terribly corrupt. I guess Harry won't end up as an auror after all, then.



Another question: Why didn't they just obliviate Kreacher's memory about the Order and No 12, Grimmauld Place? Arrgh... Sirius might still be alive...*sniff*

EDIT:
A question that's not related to Harry Potter but computer ralated. How do you create a drop-down text?[/QUOTE]

If you mean to create one for a website, Frontpage (which I use) has ready-made objects and web components like that. Don't know about other programs, but I expect they will have similar options.

Maybe she sat for the OWL for Muggle Studies since she had taken a year of it and could probably wing it for any new content. She might have even read the text book.

I am curious to know what all of you that use the word "canon" thinks it means; many of you throw it around like it is a/the/or.... I think of it from a purely artistic view and see it as a rule that the artist follows... That is exactly what the word means: rule...

I am curious to know what all of you that use the word "canon" thinks it means; many of you throw it around like it is a/the/or.... I think of it from a purely artistic view and see it as a rule that the artist follows... That is exactly what the word means: rule...


We use "canon" to mean something that we can prove using the text (that is, HP books,interviews, etc.). it means "rule" sort of the same way. A "canon" can also be a standard example, by which other similar things are judged (again, basically a rule).

Canon is the HP books (including the two text books), JKR interviews, and content on her website, period.

It is not an artistic view of rules the artist follows. That sounds more like background information and guidelines.

If you start stretching canon to an artistic view of rules the artist follows then that would open analysis of HP to almost anything someone would try to imagine.

....Why didn't they just obliviate Kreacher's memory about the Order and No 12, Grimmauld Place? Arrgh... Sirius might still be alive...*sniff*Kreacher gave out his info about Sirius at Christmas time - he was still serving the Order and #12 Grimmauld Place - would they need to obliviate him daily??? Kreacher would not have been able to tell the Malfoys anything about Harry and Sirius' relationship IF Sirius hadn't ordered him OUT. IF he'd only paid attention and ordered Kreacher to his cupboard then Sirius would also be alive still.

By the way - Kreacher didn't give the Malfoys info about #12 Grimmauld Place or the Order - it only says he told them how much Harry cared about Sirius.

Or maybe perhaps House-Elves are "un-oblivate-able" =P...

Off Topic: Didn't you see the 2nd movie? Dobby blocked Lucius' Avada Kedevra Curse...

Ah! I found the part about Hermione dropping Muggle Studies. It's on the UK Edition, Page 314, Last Chapter.

'I went to see Professor McGonnagall this morning, just before breakfast. I've decided to drop Muggle Studies.'

All obliviating charms are breakable if a powerful wizard wants to break them. Remember Bertha Jorkins? She was obliviated and Voldemort just tortured her until she remembered what she'd forgotten, which was how he found out about the triwizrd tournament.

Or maybe perhaps House-Elves are "un-oblivate-able" =P...

Off Topic: Didn't you see the 2nd movie? Dobby blocked Lucius' Avada Kedevra Curse...



Movies do not reflect the book very well, but if you want to get into a discussion about this Dobby actually prevented Lucius from finishing/casting the curse by knocking him down with elf-magic. :p

Kreacher gave out his info about Sirius at Christmas time -
he was still serving the Order and #12 Grimmauld Place - would they need to
obliviate him daily??? Kreacher would not have been able to tell the Malfoys
anything about Harry and Sirius' relationship IF Sirius hadn't ordered him OUT.
IF he'd only paid attention and ordered Kreacher to his cupboard then Sirius would
also be alive still.

Yes, but they could have obliviated him right at the start of OOTP and chucked him out and be shot of him...


Or maybe perhaps House-Elves are "un-oblivate-able" =P...
I don't think so, since Voldemort also managed to modify Hokey's memory.

Because very powerful wizards can break the memory charm and make them spill everything that they have been hiding.

Canon is the HP books (including the two text books), JKR interviews, and content on her website, period.Exactly so. My Concise Oxford gives among other explanations this: "the works of a particular author or artist that are recognised as genuine". The films or any other website are therefore not canon.

From this follows that we have no evidense whatsoever of Dobbies abilities to handle Avada Kedavra. Because in the book Lucius didn't utter any incantation at all.

I had a question here-
It's said that Hogwarts is protected by enchantments and whatnot-so one cannot Apparate or Disapparate within the school grounds...but it seems that house elves and Portkeys and phoenixes seem to be punching through these defences without effort...strange...so- it isn't too hard for the Death Eaters and their master to get into HOgwarts if they used a Portkey, right?

I had a question here-
It's said that Hogwarts is protected by enchantments and whatnot-so one cannot Apparate or Disapparate within the school grounds...but it seems that house elves and Portkeys and phoenixes seem to be punching through these defences without effort...strange...so- it isn't too hard for the Death Eaters and their master to get into HOgwarts if they used a Portkey, right?Probably not, or just use their House-elves...

But why House-elves can do this is explained by JK...
You say that people cannot Apparate or Disapparate within Hogwarts and yet Dobby manages it, why is this?

House-elves are different from wizards; they have their own brand of magic, and the ability to appear and disappear within the castle is necessary to them if they are to go about their work unseen, as house-elves traditionally do.I believe that DD apparated with Fawkes {from his office} in OoP.

She did indeed drop muggle studies, bevause Ron gave out to her, he was like "WHAT?!" as if to say why was she dropping something she was so good at. The fact remains that we seeem to be a subject short for her OWL, but this was actually discusssed earlier on in this thread, check it out. I'm not sure we came to any true conclusion, other than the fact that she more than likely took the Muggle Studies exam. Im gonna go check the book actually later, because this question is popping up everywhere! There was some kind of formation for the exams in there, where we kinda worked out where each person did what exams. So Ill check that.

Exactly so. My Concise Oxford gives among other explanations this: "the works of a particular author or artist that are recognised as genuine". The films or any other website are therefore not canon.

From this follows that we have no evidense whatsoever of Dobbies abilities to handle Avada Kedavra. Because in the book Lucius didn't utter any incantation at all.

However, I don't think JKR would have allowed that to be in the movie if it wasn't plausible. As was mentioned above, House Elves have their own brand of magic.

Hm, I think there's a lot in the movies, which isn't plausible in Potter-world. But I agre absolutely, that house-elves use acompletely different magic. :)

If you mean to create one for a website, Frontpage (which I use) has ready-made objects and web components like that. Don't know about other programs, but I expect they will have similar options.

I'm not sure what you mean but I was wondering how you put the test into the drop-down box as done here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=71545).

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is canon?

Do you mean a caption, in a collaspible box like this?

Harry ~N~ Ginny/HMS Chocolate!

If so, see the vB codes (http://www.cosforums.com/misc.php?do=bbcode) list...you can do a lot of things with the codes.

[expand=caption]your caption here[*/expand] {without the asterick}.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is canon?Canon is factual evidence in HP provided by the books. It can also be included to mean interviews given by the author, as well. Normally movies aren't considered canon.

If so, see the vB codes list...you can do a lot of things with the codes.

[expand=caption]your caption here[*/expand] {without the asterick}.
That's it! Thank you :)

Canon is factual evidence in HP provided by the books. It can also be included to mean interviews given by the author, as well. Normally movies aren't considered canon.


Thanks, that helps!

Canon is what people mention when they don't want to speculate along the same lines as you.

Probably not, or just use their House-elves...

But why House-elves can do this is explained by JK...
You say that people cannot Apparate or Disapparate within Hogwarts and yet Dobby manages it, why is this?

House-elves are different from wizards; they have their own brand of magic, and the ability to appear and disappear within the castle is necessary to them if they are to go about their work unseen, as house-elves traditionally do.I believe that DD apparated with Fawkes {from his office} in OoP.

Curious..since you guys are bring this up...by HP/wise...house elves are not supposed to leave their "houses" unless they have permission and not usually are they permitted to leave except under extreme circumstances...so maybe they are exempt from the policy of apparating..and the other..I thought Falks took DD out of the room...and animals are allowed to apparate..it's just wizards who can't, right?

Canon is what people mention when they don't want to speculate along the same lines as you.Or when 'you' start to discuss things that belongs in Muggle Studies, not here. :D

She did indeed drop muggle studies, bevause Ron gave out to her, he was like "WHAT?!" as if to say why was she dropping something she was so good at. The fact remains that we seeem to be a subject short for her OWL, but this was actually discusssed earlier on in this thread, check it out. I'm not sure we came to any true conclusion, other than the fact that she more than likely took the Muggle Studies exam. Im gonna go check the book actually later, because this question is popping up everywhere! There was some kind of formation for the exams in there, where we kinda worked out where each person did what exams. So Ill check that.We have no indication of how she managed it, but Muggle studies seems most likely.

Canon is the HP books (including the two text books), JKR interviews, and content on her website, period.

It is not an artistic view of rules the artist follows. That sounds more like background information and guidelines.

If you start stretching canon to an artistic view of rules the artist follows then that would open analysis of HP to almost anything someone would try to imagine.

Canon does not mean proof... Canon is a rule the artist abides by when creating work, i.e. JKR used canon from other literary works when creating HP... It has nothing to do with how something is viewed...

If we consider HP to be the work, then citing canon, that is, the HP books, to back up our theories and positions is also acceptable.

Interviews are often included, but sometimes JKR contradicts the books in her interviews...... :rolleyes:

We have no indication of how she managed it, but Muggle studies seems most likely.
Another glitch of the author's, or is there more to Hermione than meets the eye? Again....

Canon does not mean proof... Canon is a rule the artist abides by when creating work, i.e. JKR used canon from other literary works when creating HP... It has nothing to do with how something is viewed...You've developed your own definition of canon that doesn't coincide with how the term is being used when discussing HP. Just check out all of the responses in this thread.

When we as fans refer to HP canon we are referring to JKR's body of work. It has nothing to do with what JKR used as source materials.

You've developed your own definition of canon that doesn't coincide with how the term is being used when discussing HP. Just check out all of the responses in this thread.

When we as fans refer to HP canon we are referring to JKR's body of work. It has nothing to do with what JKR used as source materials.

Well, that is my point, you are being very liberal, nearing incorrectness, when you use the word canon in that way... And I do not see how I contradicted myself, I was simply saying how I view the definition of canon...

Ok, here are the official views of the definition of canon:

In the context of fiction, the canon of a fictional universe comprises those novels, stories, films, etc. that are considered to be genuine (or "official"), and those events, characters, settings, etc. that are considered to have inarguable existence within the fictional universe. Usually items that are considered canon come from the original source of the fictional universe while non-canon material comes from adaptations or unofficial items.

While there is no official statement on what is considered to be Harry Potter canon, the majority of fans generally accept it to be the works which come straight from J. K. Rowling herself. These include the six novels and the two "textbooks", Quidditch through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.

Canon? What is considered "canon"? And where do you come off making the decision about what's "canon" and what isn't?

There is a difference between what's official and what's canon. Lots of things are official, including the films. But the information from those sources didn't come from J. K. Rowling herself, and that's really the crucial point. Only information which comes directly from the author is considered canon. I realize that she had a lot of input into the creation of the film, but she didn't chose the names for every shop sign in Diagon Alley (so we can't say that there's a Daily Prophet office there, even though the film shows the sign) and she didn't approve every line of dialogue. Quite a bit of information in the films contradicts what we know from the books, in fact. Just for your information, here's the list of what's considered canon, listed in order of "correctness":


the novels and the "school books" (Fantastic Beasts and Quidditch Through the Ages)

the illustrations in the "school books" (which were drawn by Rowling herself) but not the pictures in the novels

interviews with Rowling where her actual words are given

sections of the film/games/etc. which are known to be written by or okayed by Rowling (so far the flashback sequence in SS/f showing Lily's death is the only information that fits this criteria that we know of)

Material and information which does not come from one of these sources is not canon, which means it's not really part of the Harry Potter universe as created by the author.

Well, that is my point, you are being very liberal, nearing incorrectness, when you use the word canon in that way... And I do not see how I contradicted myself, I was simply saying how I view the definition of canon...
If you use your defintion you will find it difficult to understand what people are referring to in discussions.

I was not talking about what all the HP sites think the definition of canon is, I was talking about what the true definiton of canon is, and that lies in a dictionary, not at a HP website...

From Mirriam-Webster:
Main Entry: 1can·on

1 a : a regulation or dogma decreed by a church council b : a provision of canon law
2 [Middle English, prob. from Old French, from Late Latin, from Latin, model] : the most solemn and unvarying part of the Mass including the consecration of the bread and wine
3 [Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard] a : an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture
b : the authentic works of a writer
c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works
4 a : an accepted principle or rule b : a criterion or standard of judgment c : a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms
5 [Late Greek kanOn, from Greek, model] : a contrapuntal musical composition in two or more voice parts in which the melody is imitated exactly and completely by the successive voices though not always at the same pitch

The definition in bold is the meaning of 'canon' as it is used on this forum, referring to the authentic works of JK Rowling, meaning her books and interview answers.

I was not talking about what all the HP sites think the definition of canon is, I was talking about what the true definiton of canon is, and that lies in a dictionary, not at a HP website...
Wikipedia is not an HP website.

I was not talking about what all the HP sites think the definition of canon is, I was talking about what the true definiton of canon is, and that lies in a dictionary, not at a HP website...You might kindly read the dictionary quote I posted back in post #1451. The Oxford English dictionaries are reputed to be among the best dictionaries money can by. One would need to have very special knowledge to dare claim that they got it wrong.

Alastor, the numbers must have changed. I didn't find it at 1017. Perhaps you could link to it so we can put a stake through the heart of this issue.

After being taught about art and artworks at some of the finest universities by some of the finest teachers in London, Moscow, St. Petersburg (not FL), Toronto, Sydney, Tokyo, and UT-Austin, the definition of canon as pertains to art and artwork, as given by the experts, was, in one word, rule...

Here's from the compact Oxford online

canon1

• noun
1 a general rule or principle by which something is judged.
2 a Church decree or law.
3 a collection of authentic sacred books.
4 the authentic works of a particular author or artist.
5 a list of literary works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality.
6 Music a passage or piece of music in which a theme is taken up by two or more parts that overlap.

Art and artwork, perhaps, but not literature. Please see my post of the Mirriam-Webster dictionary definition a little higher on this page. No word in English has only one definition.

Ok, but that does not mean proof, which is the many use it in these forums...

After being taught about art and artworks at some of the finest universities by some of the finest teachers in London, Moscow, St. Petersburg (not FL), Toronto, Sydney, Tokyo, and UT-Austin, the definition of canon as pertains to art and artwork, as given by the experts, was, in one word, rule...
Rule is one meaning out of several perfectly acceptable ones. You are taking a specific example of a definition that was appropriate for that one context and trying to apply it to an entirely different circumstance. The definitions from several dictionaries and an encyclopedia are at variance with only one definition being accurate.

Art and artwork, perhaps, but not literature. Please see my post of the Mirriam-Webster dictionary definition a little higher on this page. No word in English has only one definition.

Literature is artwork, and I never said canon only meant rule, just that is does not mean proof...

Canon doesn't mean proof, but canon is the facts upon which we determine proof.

Thanks kingwidgit for the information on house-elves...I seem to have read that piece of interview some time ago, but had forgotten it...

But still my curiosity lies in the nature of the Portkeys...
As shown numerous times, illegal Portkeys can be made, within or out of Hogwarts grounds, and can transport people in or out Hogwarts.
Indeed, both Barty Crouch Jr. and Dumbledore had used Portkeys for uses to transport Harry and co. to places they intended to...
that means using Portkeys is not unexpected- even by the Death Eaters-
therefore, why Dumbledore did not produce an effective countermeasure to Portkeys after its abuse by a Death Eater in the Triwizard Tournament AND
why Draco Malfoy did not think of using Portkeys to bring in his fellow Death Eaters, but instead tried to used broken items that require repair? Well, even if Draco himself do not have the power to make a Portkey, doesn't mean no one in the Death Eaters' group can make one- and afterall, Voldemort had made himself public, so I don't think the Death Eaters would mind "drawing attention"...

Alastor, the numbers must have changed. I didn't find it at 1017. Perhaps you could link to it so we can put a stake through the heart of this issue.I made a really silly mistake. Pardon me. I picked my own 'days joined' instead of the post number. The correct post number is 1451. I'll rewrite it here for your convenience.

Concise Oxford English Dictionary, tenth revised edition, printed 2002:
canon .....the works of a particular author or artist that are recognized as genuine....
There are, of course, other things too but I fail to find Atlas' definition there. And I think this one fits perfectly well in our case.

Can we get back to questions...like Harry's dreams...have any of them come true?

Well,I suppose you could say that the whole "Voldemort and Frank Bryce" thing was true. And is dream in first year was relevant. He saw Draco Malfoy laughing at him, and he was wearing Quirells turban,which he couldnt take off,and it was telling him to switch to Slytherin. And then Malfoy's face changed to be Snape.

It's relevant,though only partly true. The turban part was totally relevant indeed! I think his dreams are more relevant to the story than true.

I was reading HBP again and i noticed that the potions book was about 50 years. In the book Harry says that it couldn't belong to his father because at that time James wasn't at school. So, how come the book has 50 years if it belonged to Snape, and Snape was at school at the same time as James?

I assume Harry didn't think of the possibility that the owner, who did the notes, not necessarily had to be the first owner of the book fifty years ago. Just a way to prevent our speculations growing in the best direction by reading HBP... ;)

Second is that it probably will become important, that the first owner (Eileen) was at school exactly in the time we know as the time Tom Riddle visited Hogwarts.

I assume Harry didn't think of the possibility that the owner, who did the notes, not necessarily had to be the first owner of the book fifty years ago. Just a way to prevent our speculations growing in the best direction by reading HBP... ;) .

Well, at least this explains why "Leviacorpus" was so popular when James was at school. :tu:

Thanks kingwidgit for the information on house-elves...I seem to have read that piece of interview some time ago, but had forgotten it...

But still my curiosity lies in the nature of the Portkeys...
As shown numerous times, illegal Portkeys can be made, within or out of Hogwarts grounds, and can transport people in or out Hogwarts.
Indeed, both Barty Crouch Jr. and Dumbledore had used Portkeys for uses to transport Harry and co. to places they intended to...
that means using Portkeys is not unexpected- even by the Death Eaters-
therefore, why Dumbledore did not produce an effective countermeasure to Portkeys after its abuse by a Death Eater in the Triwizard Tournament AND
why Draco Malfoy did not think of using Portkeys to bring in his fellow Death Eaters, but instead tried to used broken items that require repair? Well, even if Draco himself do not have the power to make a Portkey, doesn't mean no one in the Death Eaters' group can make one- and afterall, Voldemort had made himself public, so I don't think the Death Eaters would mind "drawing attention"...


Maybe one can only use a portkey to leave the grounds. We never see anyone using one to enter.

Maybe one can only use a portkey to leave the grounds. We never see anyone using one to enter.

Geez...so how exactly did Mr. Potter get back from his encounter with Lord Voldemort with Cedric's dead body?

Maybe it's not possible to make an effective countermeasure to portkeys and this is the special ability a portkey uses? Just a guess, but I would think you can't prevent for this magical way of traveling, when a portkey is still at the place you would go or go from.

I assume Harry didn't think of the possibility that the owner, who did the notes, not necessarily had to be the first owner of the book fifty years ago. Just a way to prevent our speculations growing in the best direction by reading HBP... ;)

Second is that it probably will become important, that the first owner (Eileen) was at school exactly in the time we know as the time Tom Riddle visited Hogwarts.


Maybe this is the reason Snape knows the Sectumsempra spell? If we use the theory that this spell is the Encasement Spell for splitting a soul and creating a Horcrux- and I like that theory- then this could explain how Snape came to record it in his Potions book. Eileen could have heard it through Riddle and Snape got to hearing about it (although I don't quite see Voldemort mentioning his plan to mutate his soul to someone in the Gobstones Club, or whatever it was.)

Yes, a connection between Eileen and knowledge about horcruxes is exactly what I'm thinking of.
But this is becoming off-topic (sorry), for the questions about the fifty year-old-book I think it was just important that JK mentioned the age (and mislead us for a while). If it were just to present Eileen and Tobias Snape, she could have choose another date, but she used the well known 'fifty years'.

I assume Harry didn't think of the possibility that the owner, who did the notes, not necessarily had to be the first owner of the book fifty years ago. Just a way to prevent our speculations growing in the best direction by reading HBP...

:tu: :tu: :tu:

AND IT (comments in the book of HBP) WAS WRITTEN BY A GIRL - TRUST HERMIONE!

ok, but there is the statement by dear Severus : I created the spell, how dare you use it on me, the HBP?

solution: two authors in the same book? deep connection between Severus the child and his dear witch for a mother? it could be possible...

Geez...so how exactly did Mr. Potter get back from his encounter with Lord Voldemort with Cedric's dead body?


Wow, you're right.

Maybe this is the reason Snape knows the Sectumsempra spell?If we use the theory that this spell is the Encasement Spell for splitting a soul and creating a Horcrux- and I like that theory


Is there somewhere where there is more written about this? I havent heard about it before, but I like it.

I was going to start a new thread for this, but I'll try my luck here.

We know that the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching position is jinxed. No one teacher has been able to maintain the position for more than one year because Voldemort jinxed it after he was rejected the position himself. Now here's something I'm wondering....

Quirrell was the Defense teacher in SS/PS. Was that his first year doing it? If not, how was he able to keep the position? Were there all different teachers before Quirrell as well?

I was going to start a new thread for this, but I'll try my luck here.

We know that the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching position is jinxed. No one teacher has been able to maintain the position for more than one year because Voldemort jinxed it after he was rejected the position himself. Now here's something I'm wondering....

Quirrell was the Defense teacher in SS/PS. Was that his first year doing it? If not, how was he able to keep the position? Were there all different teachers before Quirrell as well?

Snape also held the Defense Against The Dark Arts position for only one year, but he was Potion's teacher for quite some time. As Hagrid says, Quirrel wanted experience and came back stranger -- twittering -- came back with Voldemort. Even Voldemort says Quirrel was young teacher who was at Hogwart's. (don't know exact quotes for each).

Hope this helps.

Maybe this is the reason Snape knows the Sectumsempra spell?If we use the theory that this spell is the Encasement Spell for splitting a soul and creating a Horcrux- and I like that theory

Snape knows the Sectumsempra spell because he created it while at Hogwarts. This spell I believe only creates cuts that spills blood. This isn't the Encasement Spell.

Snape also held the Defense Against The Dark Arts position for only one year, but he was Potion's teacher for quite some time. As Hagrid says, Quirrel wanted experience and came back stranger -- twittering -- came back with Voldemort. Even Voldemort says Quirrel was young teacher who was at Hogwart's. (don't know exact quotes for each).

Hope this helps.

Was Quirrel the Defense teacher before he left for "experience"?

Geez...so how exactly did Mr. Potter get back from his encounter with Lord Voldemort with Cedric's dead body?

The same way the gang came home from the Quidditch Game -- the Portkey -- is a two way devise sending the person back to their original location.

Harry Accio-ed the cup to him while holding onto Cedric's body.

Was Quirrel the Defense teacher before he left for "experience"?

He couldn't have been because he went to gain experience so that he could teach. Hagrid I believe says he was great teaching out of text, but wanted hands on experience before teaching Defense Against The Dark Arts.

It seems Quirrel DID leave after his first year - he went on sabbatical - a decision that MAY have been influenced by his making a bad decision - just like the other Defense teachers - however HE did not leave under a cloud that would prevent him coming back someday. So, after his 'sabbatical' - a leave from work can't just be summer vacation - he returned with another bad decision - Voldemort. The post has never been described by Dumbledore (the one who knows) as forcing a teacher to only teach one year - just that they can't stay two years in a row.

Is there somewhere where there is more written about this? I havent heard about it before, but I like it.

If you go to The Harry Potter Lexicon -- www.hp-lexicon.org (http://) they have many sites and a lot of information on spells, people's names, etc.

This has always bothered me, How did the potters get all that money?

It's possible that James' family inherited it from Bowman Wright, the inventor of the Golden Snitch. He lived in Godric's Hollow.

The same way the gang came home from the Quidditch Game -- the Portkey -- is a two way devise sending the person back to their original location.Not exactly the same way. They used two different portkeys for the Quidditch World Cup. A boot to get there and a rubber tyre to get back. :)

We've never seen another two-way portkey in the stories.

Right. And the boot was most obviously not active any more after their arrival, as Arthur without any wand waving or incantation picked it up and handed it to Basil. It didn't fly away with either of them.

So basically, Crouch Jr. made a very special Portkey...he did get 12 OWLs after all......

Oh I think most wizards who know how to make portkeys can probably make one. But we just haven't seen one. Maybe they don't need to be two-way since you can always program the reverse direction when you need it.

the cup portkey didnt take them back to there original position that was in the middle of the maze they went to the edge of the maze.

I think it's possible that BartyJr expected Voldemort to send Harry's dead body back to where it could be seen OR to use the portkey to attack Hogwarts immediately. Not sure IF Voldemort ever intended this - but I can see zealous BartyJr thinking his Master would appreciate a chance to attack or show he's back.

Well...then 2-way Portkeys CAN be made...
But Draco and co. doesn't even need to have a 2-way Portkey to launch the Battle of Hogwarts- there might even never have been a Battle of Hogwarts if Draco could think of it...

A last point on the two-way portkey - it is entirely possible that Harry used accidental magic to make the portkey return to safety, He WAS under extreme duress at the time. It would be a good mirror of the time before Hogwarts when he found himself on top of the school building to avoid Dudley and his gang.

Now this disturbs me...If Harry (and several other witches and wizards eg. Neville) could have accidentally done magic to save their skins before going to Hogwarts, then doesn't that indicate that all magical people can depend on their inherent powers to save themselves in the face of a crisis?
And now JKR has even introduced a "luck potion"...for God's sake...where's the cause for any worry anymore?

I'd hardly call a lucky Apparition a use of magic in a life threatening situation, and Neville, well, grass is soft.

As JK's all ready said, too much lucky potion can lead to side effects.

Now this disturbs me...If Harry (and several other witches and wizards eg. Neville) could have accidentally done magic to save their skins before going to Hogwarts, then doesn't that indicate that all magical people can depend on their inherent powers to save themselves in the face of a crisis?
And now JKR has even introduced a "luck potion"...for God's sake...where's the cause for any worry anymore?

Children have the most luck in getting into and out of scrapes. I had it that only children had this luck. Once you started learning magic, you relied on the wand and skills more than "pure sheer dumb luck" as McGonagall put it. When you have strong emotion--fear, anger--you can do things, but most times it mainly concentration and focus.

As we have seen with the luck potion -- things don't turn out the way we want. Hermione wanted to stop Snape and Ron wanted to stop Draco and the Death Eaters, but the potion only did what it needed to do to ensure people lived. You can't take the potion all the time--over confidence and cocky when people take too much good luck for granted.

A last point on the two-way portkey - it is entirely possible that Harry used accidental magic to make the portkey return to safety, He WAS under extreme duress at the time. It would be a good mirror of the time before Hogwarts when he found himself on top of the school building to avoid Dudley and his gang.

This is only a speculation after being corrected on my past mistake. If Barty hadn't changed the settings, the winner would have shown up where Harry and Cedric did to be declared. Barty screwing up with it created a second setting to send them to the Graveyard. Rowlings needed to bring Harry back to Hogwarts and this was a simply way of doing it. Beyond that, it is only speculation on our parts

Not exactly the same way. They used two different portkeys for the Quidditch World Cup. A boot to get there and a rubber tyre to get back. :)

My mistake. I just finished watching the movie. They used the boot for two way. The boot was used for two way travel. They had to find the boot to get back home.

I'd think that Felix is like ectasy pills in the real life- they grant luck, but excessively taken, well, you know what happens...
Besides, HBP mentioned that Felix is extremely hard to make, so I don't expect it to be a household item either...
Also, Hermione did say that "luck can only get you so far"...tweaks circumstances maybe, but I don't think it can defend one against an Avada Kedavra...

And the same goes for the "accident magic"...
HBP-"The trouble is, the other side can do magic too..."
Harry pulled off some tricks against Dudley, and the glass- but do you seriously think it could protect you from real crisis?
I mean, if it happened all the time, Madam Bones won't have to "put up a fight" an still died right?

Or when 'you' start to discuss things that belongs in Muggle Studies, not here. :Dthis is little questions right?

This has always bothered me, How did the potters get all that money?

I think there's something up with that ! In the book 1, there was green smoke in the vault when harry openned it, and in the movie spooky music, which reached a crescendo in the next vault, of Hogwarts. For people who did nothing... then Hagrid says 'don't you wonder where they learned it all...". It's very odd.

I think there's something up with that ! In the book 1, there was green smoke in the vault when harry openned it, and in the movie spooky music, which reached a crescendo in the next vault, of Hogwarts. For people who did nothing... then Hagrid says 'don't you wonder where they learned it all...". It's very odd.Not at all. What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive?

Well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books. But James inherited plenty of money, so he didn't need a well-paid profession. You'll find out more about both Harry's parents later.Most of the money in the vault was what James inherited from his parents.

The post has never been described by Dumbledore (the one who knows) as forcing a teacher to only teach one year - just that they can't stay two years in a row.

Ah. Thanks. :tu:

This has always bothered me, How did the potters get all that money?

I assumed that James came from a wealthy pure-blood family.

Actually the correct quote from Dumbledore is "we have never been able to keep a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort"
I thought that meant that no datdh teacher was around more than a year at all, not just more than one year in a row.

And I agree, James probably got his money from his parents. It seems like most pure-blood families (except the Weaslys) are fairly well-off. I think the interesting part will be how his parents got the money.

Actually the correct quote from Dumbledore is "we have never been able to keep a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort"
I thought that meant that no datdh teacher was around more than a year at all, not just more than one year in a row.

This has actually always bothered me, and a thorough search of the HP Lexicon timelines failed to answer, suprisingly. It seems like an awfully long time to only have one DADA teacher, doesn't it? I mean, if Voldemort requests the post before the Death Eaters have really taken off, that must mean that Hogwarts has been unable to retain a teacher in that post for at least10-15 years, doesn't it? Additionally, I think that Hagrid's discussion of Quirrel in PS seems to imply that Quirrel had worked at Hogwarts before. My copy of the book is still in a moving box, so I can't quote, but Hagrid speaks about how Quirrel was a fairly good wizard until he went on his Transylvanian tryst? How would he know, if Quirrel wasn't a staff member?!

Considering that Voldemort 'cursed' the job when Dumbledore refused to give it to him in '56 and the books have just finished school year '96-'97, Hogwarts has not had the same DADA teacher for two years in a row for 40 years.

I will need to go back and check bk1/PS/SS about EXACTLY what all has been said about Quirrell. I THOUGHT there was a mention of a 'sabbatical', but IF that exact word is not used then Quirrell MAY have been there the year before, just not as DADA teacher. It does seem very strange that Dumbledore did not introduce Quirrell as DADA IF he had not been DADA before (example - Snape getting the job). Additionally - since Hagrid already knew Quirrell had come back 'different' all the way back on July 31. It implies that either Quirrell was gone only slightly more than a month (Hagrid had to have run into Quirrell before picking up Harry to know he was 'different' and Hogwarts classes seem to end sometime near June 21 - midsummer day)

Considering that Voldemort 'cursed' the job when Dumbledore refused to give it to him in '56 and the books have just finished school year '96-'97, Hogwarts has not had the same DADA teacher for two years in a row for 40 years.

I will need to go back and check bk1/PS/SS about EXACTLY what all has been said about Quirrell. I THOUGHT there was a mention of a 'sabbatical', but IF that exact word is not used then Quirrell MAY have been there the year before, just not as DADA teacher. It does seem very strange that Dumbledore did not introduce Quirrell as DADA IF he had not been DADA before (example - Snape getting the job). Additionally - since Hagrid already knew Quirrell had come back 'different' all the way back on July 31. It implies that either Quirrell was gone only slightly more than a month (Hagrid had to have run into Quirrell before picking up Harry to know he was 'different' and Hogwarts classes seem to end sometime near June 21 - midsummer day)Hagrid told Harry that Quirrell 'took a year off ter get some first hand experience.'
But he should have been welcomed back at the feast, at least. And Percy knew he was the DADA teacher at the opening feast too. This could be one of the things that Rowling would like to go back and 'tighten up'.

maybe Quirrell was some sort of assistant in a previous year, like the TA's in college. Or maybe once he was possessed by LV, Quirrell wasn't considered to be the teacher anymore. Since it's LV's curse, he could've made an exception for himself and his creepy backwards face.

My understanding was that Quirrell was there at school for the second year one year apart from the first time he was the DADA teacher that is there was another teacher in between his first and second years but his second year was with Voldemort on his head so the one year rule wouldn't be in effect . But dumbledore might not have suspected anything because of the year off from the school that Quirrell took thus Quirrell wasn't the teacher two years in a row . Ok have fun tearing this up . :p

That's an interesting theory, TwinsRule - technically then Quirrell wouldn't have been DADA for more than a year in a row - and since VM was possessing Quirrell or directing his steps in Harry's 2nd year, and VM was the one who supposedly cursed the DADA position, VM could certainly lift the curse to allow Quirrell another go if necessary.

Yeah, harmonica, Muggles'!

My understanding was that Quirrell was there at school for the second year one year apart from the first time he was the DADA teacher that is there was another teacher in between his first and second years but his second year was with Voldemort on his head so the one year rule wouldn't be in effect . But dumbledore might not have suspected anything because of the year off from the school that Quirrell took thus Quirrell wasn't the teacher two years in a row . Ok have fun tearing this up .
There has been quite a bit of discussion on this and I think the dominant theory is that Quirrel went away for half a year, the year before Harry entered Hogwarts. This was when he met up and got involved with LV and it would also mean that she wasn't the DADA's teacher for two (whole) years in a row. It would also explain why DD didn't introduce him in the Start of Year Feast as he'd taught there before and had simply come back.

<QUESTION>

If DD could make an illegal portkey by using the simple spell Portus, Why did Draco need the Vanishing Cupboard/Cabinet? I mean, he could have placed the one Portkey in Borgin & Burkes, and other Portkey in the Room of Requirement.

hi every1 how is every1 going

well I don't know if this question comes in "little questions unanswered" or not, but I just had this doubt that why did DD freeze Harry when he was already protected under the invisibility cloak. anyway Harry could have been helpful in saving DD; and I just have this hunch that DD knew he'd be harmed .

well I don't know if this question comes in "little questions unanswered" or not, but I just had this doubt that why did DD freeze Harry when he was already protected under the invisibility cloak. anyway Harry could have been helpful in saving DD; and I just have this hunch that DD knew he'd be harmed .Exactly because Dumbledore DIDN'T want Harry interferring.

<QUESTION>

If DD could make an illegal portkey by using the simple spell Portus, Why did Draco need the Vanishing Cupboard/Cabinet? I mean, he could have placed the one Portkey in Borgin & Burkes, and other Portkey in the Room of Requirement.

Maybe you can only make a portkey in Dumbledore's office? And, since DD trusted Mad-Eye, Barty Crouch Jr. was able to take the cup up there & turn it into one as well?

The portkey situation - Dumbledore's portkey only took them OUT of Hogwarts. The kids did not use it to return. Also this (and Draco's situation) come AFTER the two-way portkey FakeMoody made. I rather doubt that they didn't set up much stricter wards against portkeying into Hogwarts after hearing Harry return from a meeting of DeathEaters who could just as easily used the portkey Harry used to attack Hogwarts. It is even specifically mentioned that security at Hogwarts was heightened before the beginning of the school year 6

Dumbledore's next portkey brought Harry TO Hogwarts from the Ministry. Maybe Draco didn't know how to make a portkey, or thought that illegal portkeys are detectable. But by using the vanishing cabinet he could check that the coast was free before going to the room and let them out. To use a portkey at a preset time would indeed have been very risky.

Alastor D - Thanks! I totally forgot that there was a portkey involved in getting Harry back to Hogwarts after the fight in the Ministry! However, it was mentioned in bk6/HBP that security was tightened around Hogwarts. However - I totally agree with your idea that this two-way door made by the vanishing cabinet allowed Draco to check that the coast was clear and bring the DeathEaters in. Interesting also that it was in the Room of Requirement - one of the best protected rooms in Hogwarts for a staging area. I wonder IF you can even USE a portkey to get to a room that's not always there?

maybe it takes a really powerful wizard to make a portkey.

i have a question!!!!!
ok, so what i've been wondering about for a while is the story of hagrid's parents. i mean we know that his dad was a smallish wizard, and his mother was a giantess. but how did they excactly fall in love? wizards hate giants, and giants aren't excatly loveable, and from what we've heard in OotP, most giants will just kill a human unless it has a present for them. on to the technacalities, how did they excatly have hagrid? is it physically possible? the whole thing just seems kind of strange.

maybe it takes a really powerful wizard to make a portkey.

i have a question!!!!!
ok, so what i've been wondering about for a while is the story of hagrid's parents. i mean we know that his dad was a smallish wizard, and his mother was a giantess. but how did they excactly fall in love? wizards hate giants, and giants aren't excatly loveable, and from what we've heard in OotP, most giants will just kill a human unless it has a present for them. on to the technacalities, how did they excatly have hagrid? is it physically possible? the whole thing just seems kind of strange.
I don't think there is a quote of their story in the books, just that Hagrids mum left when he was a little kid, and that she was not a motherly type. Maybe somebody knows if JKR had made some explanation.
About the physical thing....don't even want to think about it :scared:

If ** could make an illegal portkey by using the simple spell Portus, Why did Draco need the Vanishing Cupboard/Cabinet? I mean, he could have placed the one Portkey in Borgin & Burkes, and other Portkey in the Room of Requirement.
Interesting question, it would certainly have simplified matters. Maybe, however, Lord Voldemort was trying to test Malfoy, and even though he may have known it would have been easier to arrange a portkey, he wanted to punish Draco for his father's mistakes.

i have a question!!!!!
ok, so what i've been wondering about for a while is the story of hagrid's parents. i mean we know that his dad was a smallish wizard, and his mother was a giantess. but how did they excactly fall in love? wizards hate giants, and giants aren't excatly loveable, and from what we've heard in OotP, most giants will just kill a human unless it has a present for them. on to the technacalities, how did they excatly have hagrid? is it physically possible? the whole thing just seems kind of strange.

I've been wondering about the physical aspect too:huh:
Of course I don't have intimate knowledge about giant privates (hope anyone can understand me because I did not yet learn at school the right English vocabulary to take about these things without using 'offensive words' ) anyway, their anatomical proportions differ from those of normal humans, so certain parts may be smaller than one might expect. I'm certain we will never learn about these details from JKR though. :rotfl:

And as to wizards hate giants: there are weirdoes in every breed, as Hagrid said. Mr Hagrid Sr and Mr or Mrs Maxim did obviously not object to all giants.:cool:

About Quirrell, maybe he knew about the curse on the DADA job and that was the real reason for his sabbatical.:rotfl:

Actually, I have another question. Has there been any distinction between wizards and warlocks in Potterverse? It was brought to my attention this afternoon that there were a group of elderly warlocks deep in conversation at Slughorn's Christmas party. I hadn't noticed the change in terminology before.

I thought warlock is just a bit unfriendly. Perkins (in Mr Weasleys office) is called a warlock by the twins but seems to be a normal wizard to me.
But it could be like hag. There are real hags, easy to distinguish their appearance, but Umbridge for example is frequently called a hag as an insult.

The Lexicon has Quirrell listed as teaching a few years previous...then he took a sabbatical...he returned to the post in PS/SS. He never taught consecutive years, apparently. Of course, not sure where they got the info...it may have been on the Chocolate frog card, now that I think about it.

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There are mention of other warlocks throughout the series...Arthur worked in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts office with Warlock Perkins.

JK has not given us the her definition for warlock yet, so we're not quite sure what it references...a male witch, wizard, sorcerer, demon---oath breaker. I've also seen it used---though never in HP land---to reference an illegitimate child of a witch.

I believe Dumbledore was Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot.

...Has there been any distinction between wizards and warlocks in Potterverse? It was brought to my attention this afternoon that there were a group of elderly warlocks deep in conversation at Slughorn's Christmas party. I hadn't noticed the change in terminology before. I'm not sure it has ever specified EXACTLY what the difference is. The only real reference I can think of is that Dumbledore is 'Chief Warlock' of the Wizengamot - soooo, since these 'warlocks' were in deep conversation, perhaps 'warlock' refers to wizards with a 'legal' turn of mind. I don't mean necessarily 'lawyers', I am kind of thinking of Jewish traditions with the 'men' getting together and arguing points of 'law' and what the talmud says and means. These are really 'the scholars'.

So, perhaps in Potterverse 'Warlocks' are the ones who like to get together and discuss 'old magic' and 'why' THIS works and THAT doesn't? I THINK(!) there was a reference to 'wild' warlocks in one of the books once. I'll need to see if I can find it again. IF so that would be a scholar studying on his own instead of as part of a group? Perhaps 'wild' implies looked down on for this? As if studying the 'important TRUTHS' about Magic is too much to be done alone and can drive one 'mad'?

Interesting question. There certainly IS a distinction made between witches and hags in the books AND the 'talmudic' tradition would play a part in the historical 'Kaballah-Magic' connection

Actually, when you think about it the only 'magic person' title JKR really doesn't use is 'sorceror' That's only used in the American version of the first book AND only in reference to the stone

I'm not sure it has ever specified EXACTLY what the difference is. The only real reference I can think of is that Dumbledore is 'Chief Warlock' of the Wizengamot - soooo, since these 'warlocks' were in deep conversation, perhaps 'warlock' refers to wizards with a 'legal' turn of mind. I don't mean necessarily 'lawyers', I am kind of thinking of Jewish traditions with the 'men' getting together and arguing points of 'law' and what the talmud says and means. These are really 'the scholars'.

So, perhaps in Potterverse 'Warlocks' are the ones who like to get together and discuss 'old magic' and 'why' THIS works and THAT doesn't? I THINK(!) there was a reference to 'wild' warlocks in one of the books once. I'll need to see if I can find it again. IF so that would be a scholar studying on his own instead of as part of a group? Perhaps 'wild' implies looked down on for this? As if studying the 'important TRUTHS' about Magic is too much to be done alone and can drive one 'mad'?

Interesting question. There certainly IS a distinction made between witches and hags in the books AND the 'talmudic' tradition would play a part in the historical 'Kaballah-Magic' connection

Actually, when you think about it the only 'magic person' title JKR really doesn't use is 'sorceror' That's only used in the American version of the first book AND only in reference to the stoneDumbledore is listed as Grand Sorcerer...and Tom Riddle referred to his future self as the greatest sorcerer in the world.

Dumbledore is listed as Grand Sorcerer...and Tom Riddle referred to his future self as the greatest sorcerer in the world.Ooops! Thanks Kingwidget! Can you point me to roughly where these are in the books? I'm guessing Dumbledore's is on his letterhead somewhere? But don't remember Voldemort's. Perhaps 'sorceror' is a 'level' of talent or power since they are both very strong AND the american books used 'sorceror' in connection to the stone, something only a very talented wizard could make. Perhaps Flamel was considered a 'sorceror' as well then, or the title has something to do with Alchemy?
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edit to add - I guess since you said Tom's 'future self' this must be in bk2/CoS I don't seem to be fully functioning tonight. I'll go look into these situations. THANKS!

<Question>

In GoF the book, Voldemort says that 6 death eaters aren't around (Bellatrix Lestrange, Rudolphus Lestrange, Rabastan Lestrange, Bartemius Crouch Junior, Severus Snape, Igor Karkaroff).

Quote from GoF Chapter 23:
'And here we have six missing Death Eaters... three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me for ever... he will be killed, of course... and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service.'
...
'He is at Hogwarts, that faithful servant, and it was through his efforts that our young friend arrived tonight.'

The 1st 3 refers to Bellatrix, Rudolphus and Rabastan Lestrange
The next person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior
The next person refers to Igor Karkaroff
The last person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior

So I'm wondering... who is Voldemort refering to when he says 1 is too cowardly to return and 1 is in Hogwarts doing his bidding. I mean, in HBP, Severus says that Voldemort claims Severus is his most loyal servant. But it was due to Barty Crouch Jr that Harry "met up" face to face with Voldemort. So is the coward Barty Crouch Jr or Severus?

The 'key' was the 'I believe' in the "One, who I believe has left me for ever... he will be killed, of course". Voldemort was SURE the loyal one was loyal and the coward was afraid. He was not positive yet (altho' pretty darn sure) about the one who had left him

In Spinner's End ch2/bk6/HBP we are specifically shown that Snape was able to convince Voldemort he was loyal. From Snape's "Do you really think that the Dark Lord has not asked me each and every one of those questions? And do you really think that, had I not been able to give satisfactory answers, I would be sitting here talking to you?" The implication is that IF Snape had NOT had satisfactory answers than Snape would be dead. This is JKR letting us know that Snape was the one Voldemort 'believed' had left. Since Snape changed Voldemort's belief he was no longer pegged to die.

This also indicates that the 'loyal' at Hogwarts MUST be BartyJr. because Voldemort didn't believe Snape loyal then. Leaving the coward as Karkaroff. It's interesting that this means IF Karkaroff had not 'run', but had come to Voldemort even after the rebirth, he would not be dead now. He would have had to 'pay' but he would have been alive. So, despite giving up names of other DeathEaters in his hearing, Voldemort trusted Karkaroff (at the moment he said these words) MORE than he trusted Snape.
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By the way - JKR's choice of wording is just wonderful! Snape says he gave 'satisfactory answers' he never says he told the truth. The Spinner's End chapter is SUCH a beautiful chapter of using words so precisely to give the appearance of telling the truth while actually using truths to lie.

This also indicates an entire scene we'll never get to see - Voldemort asking Snape ALL those same questions that Bella brings up with the addition of legilimency to test Snape's answers. Snape HAD to have 'memories' to show Voldemort that appear to agree with each and every answer we see him give Bella in this chapter. Snape can hardly just 'throw up a blank wall' against Voldemort and expect to live during this questioning. I think THAT's why Dumbledore asked Snape IF he was 'prepared' - did he have enough memories to 'show' that would fool Voldemort? Which means that at least 'part' of Snape's actions throughout the books are colored by how Snape needs them to appear when he will be legilimensed by Voldemort

Wow.

Yeah, I agree BurrowGirl (love the name - sounds so cozy). WOW!

Can you imagine living for years knowing 'someday' Voldemort would come back, needing to build a supply of 'appropriate memories' and not having any way of know when the return would be? Imagine if Voldemort wouldn't have been reborn until Harry was say 40?

Major Stress!

The 1st 3 refers to Bellatrix, Rudolphus and Rabastan Lestrange
The next person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior
The next person refers to Igor Karkaroff
The last person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior

So I'm wondering... who is Voldemort refering to when he says 1 is too cowardly to return and 1 is in Hogwarts doing his bidding. I mean, in HBP, Severus says that Voldemort claims Severus is his most loyal servant. But it was due to Barty Crouch Jr that Harry "met up" face to face with Voldemort. So is the coward Barty Crouch Jr or Severus?


First off, Bellatrix is still alive. Second, this has been debated and I believe you are missing a few names. I dont remember them off the top of my head. I think however, that Crouch Jr is the loyal servant. Because I assume that Voldemort thinks Severus was too cowardly to return. Although he did return to him, just later than Voldemort wanted.

<Question>

In GoF the book, Voldemort says that 6 death eaters aren't around (Bellatrix Lestrange, Rudolphus Lestrange, Rabastan Lestrange, Bartemius Crouch Junior, Severus Snape, Igor Karkaroff).

Quote from GoF Chapter 23:


The 1st 3 refers to Bellatrix, Rudolphus and Rabastan Lestrange
The next person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior
The next person refers to Igor Karkaroff
The last person refers to either Severus Snape or Bartemius Crouch Junior

So I'm wondering... who is Voldemort refering to when he says 1 is too cowardly to return and 1 is in Hogwarts doing his bidding. I mean, in HBP, Severus says that Voldemort claims Severus is his most loyal servant. But it was due to Barty Crouch Jr that Harry "met up" face to face with Voldemort. So is the coward Barty Crouch Jr or Severus?Bellatrix and Rudolphus Lestrange were mentioned by Voldemort earlier, they went to Azkaban, they did not die in his service.
The one too cowardly to return is, I think, Karkaroff. He ran off, deserting his students, after it became clear that Voldemort was back.
The one who Voldemort believed had left him forever is Snape, but Snape was apparently able to convince him otherwise.
The faithful servant is definitely Crouch Jr, since Voldemort goes on to say that it was through the efforts of that faithful servant that Harry arrived in the graveyard. Crouch Jr later confesses to helping Harry towards winning the tournament, and to changing the Cup into a portkey.
By HBP, Voldemort could well consider Snape his most faithful servant, Crouch Jr had his soul sucked out, may not even be alive, and Bellatrix messed up at the Ministry.

Right. He referred to the Lestranges earlier. "The Lestranges should stand here,.. But they are entombed in Azkaban." I'm afraid he didn't mention any more missing ones by name.

Actually, I have another question. Has there been any distinction between wizards and warlocks in Potterverse? It was brought to my attention this afternoon that there were a group of elderly warlocks deep in conversation at Slughorn's Christmas party. I hadn't noticed the change in terminology before.
For some reason I have interpreted Warlock to be the elderly Wizards, in a similar fashion as Elders or Senior members. Not really sure where this comes from tho; it's just what I have in my head but I don't have any hard facts in mind to back this up (for once, lol)

I have a question to pose. In POA, Marge breaks a glass (we're led to believe that Harry had a hand in that) and she says not to worry, she did the same thing with Colonol Fubster recently. I don't overlook coincidences anymore, so who is this guy? Is he a squib, a wizard, or something else?

Thought the name sounded familiar...

Probably just a muggle mate of Marge's, we've not heard from him before or since, so I doubt it's vitally improtant.

I know this has probably been talked about before I have to ask for your opinions. In the chapter called Journey from platform nine and three quaters Ron attempts a spell he says his brothers invented;

"Sunshine, daisies, butter yellow
Turn this stupid fat rat yellow"

Now we know the spell wouldn't of worked because Scabbers wasn't actually a rat, but just out of curiosity, do you reckon the spell would of worked anyway. I mean, it doesn't sound like any of the spells they learn at Hogwarts. None of them rhyme. I feel stupid just asking this because magic doesn't exist and it's not like it's an itegral part of the series, but still what are your opinions? Would the spell work or not?

p.s. Wolf Mother rocks!!!

As ron did not try spells before, he thinks that any word can change anything so he thought that Fred and George's spell, or rather "poem", could change Scabbers yellow.

In the Barnes and Noble & Yahoo! chat 20 October 2000 Jo confirmed that Colonel Fubster is a muggle.
"No, he's a muggle neighbour of Aunt Marge's (poor man)."

Can be found at Quick-Quote-Quill.

I think Fred and George invented that spell just to be take the mickey out of Ron. Ron was suspicious of it.

Sounds made up to me .. or at least, I've never heard of a spell in poem form before!! If it had been a real spell I should have thought it would work on Scabbers whether he was a 'real' rat or not..

I think it was just a joke, nothing more. But it should be interesting to try it on a real rat.

Interesting question, it would certainly have simplified matters. Maybe, however, Lord Voldemort was trying to test Malfoy, and even though he may have known it would have been easier to arrange a portkey, he wanted to punish Draco for his father's mistakes.

Morelike he's punishing Draco's dad...because who would feel it worse than the parent..all said and done.... Lucus loves his son very much...he's an only son, the inheritor of the estate, last in line. He's shelled out a lot of money to make Draco look better than Harry. Bought him a seat on the Quit. Field...what better way to punish someone than through their children...Voldermort set Draco up for failure.

Let's get version two fired up.