All About Dementors

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Kendra
July 8th, 2003, 11:20 am
Ok I'm very annoyed. I'd just finished writing this massive long essay on Dementors and I lost it :'(

So we'll start again....There isn't a topic in the book 5 area to analyze dementors so I thought it would be nice to start an updated one so we can look at clues from book 5 to help us work out these weird creatures.

Why are Dementors created?
How are Dementors created?
Where will they go now Azkaban is no longer their home?
And any other questions :)

Anyways I have my own theory on how they are created, it came to me whilst I was trying to sleep so in the process I scared myself silly and couldn't sleep even more....

Right, turn to page 25 in your copies of Fantastic Beasts and where to find them and look at Lethifolds.

For those of you who don't have a copy, it says...
The Lethifold is a mercifully rare creature found solely in tropical climates. It resembles a black cloak perhaps half an inch thick (thicker if it has recently killed and digested a victim) which glides along the ground at night. (paraphrased) The patronus is the only spell known to repel the Lethifold.

As this wizard was being attacked by one in the accound he tells, he says he felt "paralyzed with fear, I felt it's clammy touch

The bits I've highlighted are also Dementor related features. Plus, Harry stated in book 4 he didn't think they could withstand heat, but in book 5 it is a massive heatwave at night the dementors attack, again similar to a lethifold. So it is therefore my theory that a dementor is created when a lethifold has eaten a certain number of victums. The putrid breath and scabby horrible hands sound like a digested victim, and the fact they have human form under their black cloaks.

Like I said, it's probably been mentioned elsewhere but there's other questions about them!

Thoughts?

phoenixsong
July 8th, 2003, 11:57 am
excellent work, there, Helhorns! I don't know what to add to such a convincing bit of research. I don't know about the part regarding eating their victims (does it say in fantastic beasts what lethifolds are after?), but you've got me persuaded that dementors are part, if not all, lethifold.

Kendra
July 8th, 2003, 12:05 pm
It doesn't say what happens to them afterwards, it just says they are slightly thicker once they've eaten and digested a victim, but I wouldn't be surprised if evolution comes into it or the number of victims they have.

Kizz
July 8th, 2003, 2:24 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong (high chance of this - I read Fant. B~ ages ago) - but aren't lethifolds 'mercifully' rare? - or just too good at stealth to be detected all the time? I was thinking about the number of dementors in existance compared to lethifolds. Do we know much about the population of dementors? Excellent theory Helhorns.

Mimbulus
July 8th, 2003, 4:28 pm
great theory! i didnt even make the connection until you mentioned it...it would be interesting if JK came out with a book like Fantastic Beasts that explained the existence of dementors. they have very significantly similar characteristics. perhaps they are kind of an inter-related species evolving over time in different environments but once, a long time ago, were the same...something definately to think about :cool:

Kendra
July 8th, 2003, 5:47 pm
hehe it was nothing, like I said you'll probably find it in the great hall.
I want to know how they die. If they are not classified as a beast, then what are they classified as?

TheEvilOne
July 8th, 2003, 6:04 pm
Maybe becoming a Dementor is like a human becomeing a police officer.Highly talented Lethifolds are given a job as Dementors to police the wizards in Azkaban or somthing like that...



:devil:

danwilkie
July 8th, 2003, 6:36 pm
Great theory. I don't know about lethifolds turning into Dementors but they certainly seem to be related. I wonder if the Lethifolds will join Voldemort's army.... :( :( :(

groovychick
July 8th, 2003, 6:48 pm
Harry wouldn't have any problems with Lethifolds he does produce a coperal Patronus!:)

danwilkie
July 8th, 2003, 6:52 pm
* this triggers something in Dan's memory *

A corporeal Patronus? Do you know Amelia Bones?

Lestrange
July 8th, 2003, 6:56 pm
...I always thought that the lethifold was like, the dementors of the tropics, since Harry thinks that the dementors won't last in hot weather, and this sounds true, maybe when a lethifold migrates to primarily cold weather, it turns into a dementor...? Anyway, I do agree with you that the lethifold and the dementor seem to be an interrelated species in some way.

Pucko
July 8th, 2003, 7:00 pm
:D dan!
anyways...dementors and lethifolds have to be related somehow...great research helhorns! but there seem to be a lot more dementors than lethifolds...however it says in fantastical beasts that it is hard to calculate the number of victims as the lethifolds attack them in their sleep....wouldn't that mean it is also hard to calculate the number of lethifolds? so there could be a lot of them

groovychick
July 8th, 2003, 7:02 pm
I don't know where my fantastatic beasts book is but I like the little foot note at the bottom of the page says something about a man who faked a note saying he was being eaten by a Lethifold but was found a few weeks later living with the land lady of pub a few miles away.:D

danwilkie
July 8th, 2003, 7:06 pm
Anyone else notice that it doesn't mention Dementors in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them?

groovychick
July 8th, 2003, 7:10 pm
They're not really Creatures or Beasts they are kinda like people just really creepy human things.:evil:

Mad-I Moody
July 8th, 2003, 7:41 pm
Great research Helhorns! I'm so impressed!

I think that, rather than a Lethifold turning into a dementor after digesting victims or something of the sort, that a dementor is a cross-breed between a Lethifold and something else. My copy of Fantastic Beasts is at home, unfortunately, but I'd almost wager that, if a Lethifold and a wizard bred a child, it might be a dementor. Or maybe, the digested victim of a Lethifold -- er-- comes out as a dementor.

My theories aside, I'm still very impressed with Helhorns' assessment. :D :D :D

FredRocksMySocks
July 8th, 2003, 7:56 pm
JRK is so clever lol! Sneaking things in like that! But, yeah, I do have to wonder why they're called Lethifolds in that book and Dementors in Harry Potter.... Perhaps the ones that are ministry controlled are a special breed? Maybe they are bred especially not to kill, but to live off of emotion. I haven't checked, but are dementors in Fantastic Beasts, or just the Lethifolds? Hmm...I wonder if JRK will explain in book 6?

firebolt2000
July 9th, 2003, 9:51 am
That was some good work there, Helhorns! I think Dementors are created just for the purpose of guarding Azkaban. We now know that the Dementors probably left to join Voldemort. I don't have a clue as to how Dementors are created, though. I think they serve a good purpose, being guards of Azkaban, but I don't think anyone (except maybe some really cruel people - like Voldemort and his Death Eaters) deserve the Dementor's kiss.

The one thing that I am confused about is the Lethifold. It seems to be exactly like the Dementor only it is found in tropical climates and is rare. But it eats the victims? I thought it would do something like a Dementor's Kiss, because Dementors don't actually eat their victims. And if a person comes across a Lethifold, does it experience the same things when approached by a Dementor?

Kendra
July 9th, 2003, 3:02 pm
In a way, dementors seem to be a metaphor for depression, as others have said. Yet Lethifolds are beasts. So why are Dementors not classed as beasts? Is it because they can think to a certain extent, or they once were humans but Lethifolds turned into one from eating so many victims.

Perhaps they thrive on depression because the human soul feels really resentful and bitter because of what happened and wants to take away the hapiness of others because it can't have any of it's own?

firebolt2000
July 9th, 2003, 3:07 pm
That could be true, Helhorns. I like your theory on how Dementors are created from Lethifolds. Do you know what exactly is under the cloak of a Lethifold?

I also do agree with how you say Dementors are a metaphor of depression. Dementors bring back your worst memories and fears, and by eating chocolate, it warms the body and makes people happier, because it is said that somehow chocolate increases the Serotonin in the brain, and a lack of Serotonin causes depression.

Kendra
July 9th, 2003, 3:27 pm
The Lethifold is just a black cloak. And the depression thing is in a special topic about the use of chocolate lol.

firebolt2000
July 9th, 2003, 6:09 pm
Ah, thanks for clarifying that. I always thought that the Lethifold was pretty much the same thing as the Dementor.

Isin Dule
August 3rd, 2003, 9:59 pm
This thread seems to have died...but I was just wondering how Dementors communicate.

The dementors told Fudge that Black's been talking in his sleep for a while now. Always the same words: 'He's at Hogwarts...he's at Hogwarts.'

So...can they talk? Use telepathy? Er...

Hammi
August 3rd, 2003, 10:09 pm
There does seem to be a relationshiop there, I dont deny that, but its hard for us to assume that there is going to be an appearence of every creature listed in there. Isin, great point with the communication thing there. O, now you got me thinking, it's really annoying me, I hope thats explained eventually.

Freezair
August 3rd, 2003, 11:20 pm
Perhaps the reason that Lethifolds are rare is because dementors hunt them and make their cloaks out of them. And... and maybe the dementors themselves aren't weak to Patronus, but their cloaks are, but dementors can't survive without their Lethifols cloaks. I mean, they're the same color... you really never know..

Arunananth
August 3rd, 2003, 11:36 pm
Good theory Freezair only problem is that a cloak would not get affected by a patronus after it is dead.

Nurika
August 3rd, 2003, 11:42 pm
Wow Helhorns, I wish I would have seen this earlier! I'm really impressed! Great sluething work! =)

Well, it seems there's an interconnection between Lethifolds and Dementors. Perhaps Helhorns is right again, and a Dementor is a Lethifold that has eaten a certain number of victims. I'd have to agree, once they become more 'hungry' for victims, they grow more sinister and gain more powers- it becomes a Dementor. It makes a lot of sense. Perhaps Hagrid'll teach the trio how to get rid of a Lethifold in class, which will lead to them discovering how to control Dementors and possibly kill them as well? I hope so! It'd be one less thing on Voldemort's side!

phoenixsong
August 4th, 2003, 3:10 pm
Once again, I agree with you all that there is a lethifold - dementor connection. On further thought, it seems to me that what distinguishes the dementor from the lethifold (besides its upright bearing) is its ability to project outward the chilling, depressing sensations it creates. I don't have my copy of Fantastic Beasts, but doesn't the lethifold actually smother its victims, as beneath a cloak, whereas the dementor can make people mad just from being near to them. Is there any other sort of creature we know of which has those abilities of projection?

Or maybe they are just crossed with crumple-horned snorkacks.

WeasleyIsOurKing
August 4th, 2003, 8:28 pm
I've always wondered about dementors.... I did read that section in Fantastic Beasts but dementors don't swallow their victims whole, so they can't be Lethifolds. Maybe they're part Lethifold? Maybe they're a cross breed of some sort? They're not considered a beast, but they're not human... so what are they?

I've read somewhere on the web (don't remember where) that dementors could have been created by Death Eaters back in Voldemort's first reign of power... I don't know how liable that information is, but it could be true. We really don't know much about dementors except that they used to guard Azkaban and that they suck the happiness out of you.

FredRocksMySocks
August 4th, 2003, 8:51 pm
I noticed that about the Lethifolds as well a few weeks back during a re-read. I think that the difference in the names is that Dementors are ministry controlled creatures, and lethifolds are just the free ones found in nature. Perhaps the dementors retain a different name because they are ministry employed for a specific job. Surely not all of these creatures can be controlled by the ministry, some of them have to be free, thus the beasts actual name is different when it is uncontrolled.

Weasley also makes an excellent point about cross breeding. Perhaps the ministry created a new creature to help them, derived from the Lethifold.

Do you think JKR will point this out?

Oh, and the DE's controlled them, but didn't create them, Weasley. it just said that they were the DE's natural allies or something.

And one more thing: the lethifold is described as eating it's victims, right? Well...didn't Lupin say in PoA that the dementors came to the Quidditch match because they were *hungry*? So they do both prey off of humans.

Very interesting thread, Hellhorns!

Micky P
August 5th, 2003, 4:21 pm
My own little theory about The Demetors (before I read this topic) was that a person who was the victim of The Kiss turned into a dementor. To me that would be worse than death and we have never hered what happens to someone after thay are kissed. Then all thay have the power to do is serch for there soul by sucking the souls out of others!
Thats how I thought the demetors came about, I didn't think thay reproduced like us! (that turns my gut just thinking about it :-) )

Freezair
August 5th, 2003, 11:01 pm
You don't know that a dead Lethifold wouldn't be affected by Patronus...

FredRocksMySocks
August 6th, 2003, 5:32 am
On further thought, it seems to me that what distinguishes the dementor from the lethifold (besides its upright bearing) is its ability to project outward the chilling, depressing sensations it creates. I don't have my copy of Fantastic Beasts, but doesn't the lethifold actually smother its victims, as beneath a cloak, whereas the dementor can make people mad just from being near to them.

Phoenix, didn't it say in Beasts that the victim felt a sort of chilling as well? Nothing compared to the dementor, true, but still the same sort of dealie.

coopman06
August 6th, 2003, 9:43 pm
Maybe, a dementor is a Lethifold that happened to eat a really nasty person like a Death Eater or something. Instead of spitting it back out, the two are forever bound together thus becoming a Dementor.

mr.berts'n'botts
August 6th, 2003, 11:27 pm
the dementors from harry potter are a lot like black riders from lord of the rings... and in lort the black riders used to be men but then turned into the riders, mayb sum wizards turned into the dementors, its kinda a possiblity :whistle:

FredRocksMySocks
August 6th, 2003, 11:39 pm
Ah! No more LotR parallels!! ;)

It's a theory...but I don't see how, really. Would they just become so evil and heartless that they turn into one? If so, then why did Voldie not become one a LONG time ago?

Isin Dule
August 6th, 2003, 11:47 pm
Lupin says in Prisoner of Azkaban that if you are around dementors long enough, they will reduce you to something like themselves. I don't know if he meant that you will become a dementor, or you'll just become soulless and evil, almost identical to a dementor.

jasper
August 7th, 2003, 1:32 am
I don't think the ministry created dementors. I always got the idea that the ministry contracted with them or hired them. They always seemed to me to be a magical being like a goblin, troll, house elf, centaur or whatever. One of the lesser loved Magical Brethern. And hiring them to guard Azkaban was one of the questionable measures the ministry took out of their fear of Voldemort and his supporters.

There are hundreds of them, because Harry has to fend off a hundred in PoA. If they sent a hundred to "guard" Hogwarts against one guy, then hundreds more would be back at Azkaban with the dozen dangerous death eaters who remained there.

Now, why does a patronus repell dementors? It is made out of exactly what they want to feed on- happy thoughts. Seems like they should take off after a patronus (to feed on it) instead of getting chased by it.

And why does everyone in the wizard world call them the Azkaban Guards for the first few chapters of PoA and then switch over to using the word dementors after Harry meets them?

FredRocksMySocks
August 7th, 2003, 1:45 am
Jasper: than what's with the different names? Do you think that when they are employed by the ministry, they get a new name, but are the same?

There are several differences between the Lethifolds and the Dementors, one being that the Lethifolds eat their victims, and dementors simply feed off of their emotions. So how does that get explained if so?

Isin Dule
August 7th, 2003, 1:49 am
And why does everyone in the wizard world call them the Azkaban Guards for the first few chapters of PoA and then switch over to using the word dementors after Harry meets them?

Because it made the book a lot better to read. I thought Azkaban guards were just really powerful, ruthless wizards until Harry met the dementor--I never thought that Azkaban would be guarded by such foul creatures.

FredRocksMySocks
August 7th, 2003, 3:02 am
:agree: It was probably JKR's way of just letting us think that they were powerful creature/wizards instead of soul-sucking cloaks. She didn't want to give away too much of their description before Harry met them.

jasper
August 7th, 2003, 3:24 am
Jasper: than what's with the different names? Do you think that when they are employed by the ministry, they get a new name, but are the same?

There are several differences between the Lethifolds and the Dementors, one being that the Lethifolds eat their victims, and dementors simply feed off of their emotions. So how does that get explained if so?

I've got no theory on Lethifolds- never heard of them before this thread. But my idea of Dementors was that they wouldn't go in the beast category- they're in the brethern category to me. I don't think these are two names for the same thing.

Hpmons
August 7th, 2003, 5:47 am
Lupin does say that if you are near one, you become something LIKE them, souless and evil.

I got the impression that you would be life an invisible ghost, with no real thought; but not beocme a dementor.
I believe (though it sounds a strange idea) that Dementors don't actually die, or they can only die from hunger (no souls to feed on). So they were probably produced by a Dark wizard a few hundred years ago, and very very slowly they are dying out. I cant actually imagine Dementors breeding...that is a horrible thought...

Since Dementors arent in Fantastic Beasts; it shows that they are VERY different from Lethifolds (read "What is a Beast?").
"They have sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to bear part of the responsibility in shaping those laws."

Dementors understand human speech and laws, unlike Lethifolds.

Tirwen Lupin
October 16th, 2003, 9:42 pm
I searched for a thread on "Dementors" and "souls", and this seemed like the most appropriate result, even though it hasn't been posted in since August.
Well, there's a bunch of questions that have been bugging me (it doesn't have to do with Lethifolds, but the thread is called "All about Dementors", so anyway...): What happens to a soul that a Dementor sucks out? If it's somehow contained inside the dementor, what happens if the dementor is destroyed? Can dementors be destroyed? They could be (sorry, hate to keep harping on about LOTR analogies!) neither "living nor dead", and couldn't be killed because of that. Your thoughts? Sorry if all this was discussed in the old Dementor thread in The Olde Great Hall, I didn't check that one.

And about the Lethifolds, I think it's a great theory! They do seem to have a lot in common. I think they might be two different species, just sort of distant cousins. Just my guess. :shrug:

hesdead-dealwithit
October 16th, 2003, 10:52 pm
What happens to a sould that a Dementor sucks out? If it's somehow contained inside the dementor, what happens if the dementor is destroyed? Can dementors be destroyed? They could be (sorry, hate to keep harping on about LOTR analogies!) neither "living nor dead", and couldn't be killed because of that. Your thoughts? Sorry if all this was discussed in the old Dementor thread in The Olde Great Hall, I didn't check that one.

I don't think they can be destroyed. Remember how they sort of appeared and disappeared when Harry fought them? I think they don't really exist in a definite sense - they can just come about and go away. So I think that Harry destroyed a dementor when he fought them, but that destroying them isn't that big a deal, because they can somehow be created anew, almost like spontaneous generation.

jasper
October 16th, 2003, 11:09 pm
What happens to a sould that a Dementor sucks out?

I assumed the soul was just dementor food at that point. Consumed. Liquidated. Slurp. Gone. That's what makes it such a harsh penalty if the Ministry sicks the dementors on you.

Tirwen Lupin
October 16th, 2003, 11:47 pm
I assumed the soul was just dementor food at that point. Consumed. Liquidated. Slurp. Gone. That's what makes it such a harsh penalty if the Ministry sicks the dementors on you.
Yes, that's probably right. The soul would just be destroyed (slurp! :rotfl: ) and not exist any longer. But it would seem equally harsh if it wasn't destryed--just somewhere where it could never be retrieved. But its total destruction... you're probably right.
I don't think they can be destroyed. Remember how they sort of appeared and disappeared when Harry fought them? I think they don't really exist in a definite sense - they can just come about and go away. So I think that Harry destroyed a dementor when he fought them, but that destroying them isn't that big a deal, because they can somehow be created anew, almost like spontaneous generation.
That's an interesting way to look at it--I thought that they might not have been destoyed, but simply disappeared by themselves. They might just have apparated in their own way to another place, rather than be created anew. But you have a good point, that there doesn't seem to be a definite way to destroy them once and for all.

FawkesBox
October 17th, 2003, 12:39 am
I assumed the soul was just dementor food at that point. Consumed. Liquidated. Slurp. Gone. That's what makes it such a harsh penalty if the Ministry sicks the dementors on you.

I agree. Dying this way prohibits any kind of afterlife which apparently exists "beyond the veil." Certainly this is a fate worse than death! I wonder if Voldemort has 1. considered it or 2. familiarized himself with threats simliar (that we have not yet heard of.) :no:

[Pretty]_[Unicorn]
October 17th, 2003, 12:46 am
Gread thread Hellhorns! Your theory makes perfect sense. I'm surprised i didn't pick it up when i read fantastic magical beasts. Also the theory of cross-breeding sounds really realistic, like i can picture the ministry doing something like that so the Dementors listen to them because they probably catch Lethifolds but not many because they are very rare. The wild ones would just eat anything only listening to themselves but maybe due to the breeding they follow Ministry instruction or else they'd attack anybody.

I think that the Dementors seem to have found a way to stop listening to the Ministry, they are free-minded and probably join with the DEs because they want revenge on the Ministry for there enslavement.

Maybe Lethifolds are crossed with Dark wizards so maybe that's why they are attracted to the DEs and LV because they are all Dark and for the most part the Ministry is good. In GoF the dementor seemed unseparable from Crouch Jr., it needed his soul maybe for fuel to replenish itself? Maybe they are highly attracted to Dark wizards but can be placed under containment if the Dark wizard is powerful enough. We know Crouch was a powerful wizard but he was worn out and couldn't fight back against the Dementor so the Dementor took advantage of that and fed off his soul?

jasper
October 17th, 2003, 1:03 pm
That's an interesting way to look at it--I thought that they might not have been destoyed, but simply disappeared by themselves. They might just have apparated in their own way to another place, rather than be created anew. But you have a good point, that there doesn't seem to be a definite way to destroy them once and for all.

Well, the patronus spell is only supposed to repel the dementors. It was never said to destroy them. That doesn't mean they can't be destroyed by some other method. But no one really wanted to destroy them so far. The ministry needs them- up to now they were the only thing keeping Azkaban secure. If wizards started destroying them, they would surely not cooperate anymore.

harryfantotheend
October 18th, 2003, 3:14 pm
Ok...the other day my friend was putting on her death eater costume. Her mom said "what are you a dementor"

That's when it hit me...a dementor is a dead death eater. I don't know how it happened, its just a theory i've been tossing around lately.

AMAZING job, helhorns, i never would have thought of that!

Buckbeak
November 2nd, 2003, 9:48 pm
Do dementors speak? i can't rememeber anywhere when they do, the only reference to whether they do speak or not is in book three pg 54 Uk edition.
Fudge wanted it kept quiet, but Fudge went out to Azkaban the night Black escaped. The guards told Fudge that Blacks been talking in his sleep for a while now. always the same word: "He's at Hogwarts...he's at Hogwarts"
Prehaps Fudge can speak Dementor, a series of rasping breaths, maybe that their dialect.
oh i don't know, what do you think?

dobby_rocks
November 2nd, 2003, 10:14 pm
well they must have some sorat of Lanuge but i doubt they speak English.(then again they must be able to understand it) I mean how else could the Ministry hired them to guard Azakaban? Of course maybe they just hear but id think they can communitacte amongst their own kind.

Wizards seem to highly underestimated the intellagince of other speices like Grawp assuming trying to teach him english was a pointless but it appears Hagrid did have some success in it, and he is all giant

morgan le fay
November 2nd, 2003, 10:18 pm
maybe they have their own language, like the mer-people do, or maybe they speak an offshoot of english. that is rather odd. the oppression that wizards subject on other magical creatures kind of reminds me of how america is americanizing the rest of the world. i guess english hasnt taken over the dementors yet. maybe the demetors "speak" in a different way, as in not verbally but perhaps with signs or references. ??

Rowena Ravenclaw
November 2nd, 2003, 10:18 pm
Is it possible they can communicate telepathically?

NYCwitch920
November 2nd, 2003, 10:23 pm
Is it possible they can communicate telepathically?

Maybe they can. They never actually spoke while they were around Harry so they must have another form of communication. How else could they guard Azkaban without communicating with one another?

Buckbeak
November 2nd, 2003, 10:23 pm
Is it possible they can communicate telepathically?Hmmm thats an interesting possibilty and it seems possible they strike me as the kind of creatures who would be able to do that.
But they did some how speak to Fudge about Sirius unless they did that telepathically.
The thing is do they only use their mouths for only drawing in breath and kissing? (saying it that way makes them sound like my sister :scared: )

hesdead-dealwithit
November 2nd, 2003, 10:25 pm
Is it possible they can communicate telepathically?
That's definitely possible. But if they do have a verbal language, it has to be something that Fudge can understand, and for some reason I can't see him learning other languages like Crouch. So either they can speak English, or, as Rowena said and I think, they can communicate telepathically.

GlassRoses314
November 2nd, 2003, 10:26 pm
I like Rowena's idea of telepathic communication. Also, I sort of always thought that they understood English but didn't speak it themselfs. Otherwise how would they know when it was ok to administer the Kiss and when it wasn't (not that they'd care)? And perhaps the guards that were mentioned in the quote provided by Buckbeak were not Dementors. There has to be some humans working at Azkaban.

HannahStarr
November 2nd, 2003, 10:40 pm
I'm sure that Dementors can speak at least some English when they need to, but it seems that their rasping breath is enough to get most messages across.

NANEL
November 2nd, 2003, 10:51 pm
They can probably do it telepathicly based on how Harry heared Lilly and James

MaraudersGirl
November 2nd, 2003, 10:55 pm
I have always wondered that myself and I like the point that dobby rocks and morgan le fay brought up about them having thier own language like the goblins, mer people and giants all seem to have.

Cat
November 2nd, 2003, 11:03 pm
I can't help thinking that they can't really talk. Their voices would be like a dry rattle. Do they have tongues? Teeth?

If they don't communicate telepathically, they can still sign and use body language. Fudge could have stayed there late, heard Sirius muttering in his sleep and asked 'Does he always do that?' - a Dementor could have nodded.

Auror Williamson
November 2nd, 2003, 11:19 pm
Perhaps the Dementors communicate through the bad memories and thoughts. The rasping breathings is also a very good possibilty.

It seems as if nearly every magical creature can gesture and make their intentions known through physical movement, so sign language could be the universal form of communication for Dementors.

rotsiepots
November 2nd, 2003, 11:29 pm
I think it's almost definite that Dementors can understand instructions and parts of the English language. I'm not terribly sure whether they can actually "talk" as such, themselves.

Do we know if the Dementors are the only "guards" on Azkaban? Is there an unfortunate witch or wizard who has the task of ordering them about? If so this could explain how Fudge was "told" about Sirius's nighttime talking habits.

GlassRoses314
November 2nd, 2003, 11:33 pm
I think it's almost definite that Dementors can understand instructions and parts of the English language. I'm not terribly sure whether they can actually "talk" as such, themselves.

Do we know if the Dementors are the only "guards" on Azkaban? Is there an unfortunate witch or wizard who has the task of ordering them about? If so this could explain how Fudge was "told" about Sirius's nighttime talking habits.


Great minds think alike... ;)

Hpmons
November 7th, 2003, 5:54 pm
Grogan Stump, the newly appointed Minister for Magic, decreed that a "being" was "any creature that has sufficient intelligence to understand the laws if the magical community and to bear part of the responsibility in shaping those laws
Surely that indicates that the "beings" have to be able to communicate to wizards? It also says that merpeople became "beings" due to the fact that people could translate what they were saying. As we have seen, to Harry, the merpeoples voices just sounded like screeches - you couldnt even recognise it as someone saying something. Therefore it is likely Dementors may be able to communicate somehow. I dont think it is necessarily the rattling breath, as that is just sucking in the air, but through the books so far, a Dementor has no reason to speak.

So it is therefore my theory that a dementor is created when a lethifold has eaten a certain number of victums. The putrid breath and scabby horrible hands sound like a digested victim, and the fact they have human form under their black cloaks.
Thats a very good thought! But I think that there are still differences between Dementors and Lethifolds, that make it not true.
For a start, Dementors are listed as "beings" as they have responsibility, and intelligence, and are usually not a threat to people (but have often been tempted).
Whilst a Lethifold is described as a "beast" and has no interest in whether what it is doing is right or wrong, it seems unable to comunicate with wizards, and is a threat to asolutly anyone - you cannot bargain with them.
However, there are too many similarities for it to be a coincidence, perhaps they are related somehow, but still different (like humans and monkeys). i dont think a Lethifold can turn into a Dementor simly from eating a lot.

"They breed in the darkest, filthiest places, they create decay and despair, they drain peace, hope and happiness out of any human who comes too close to them... Even Muggles feel their presence, though they can't see them. Get too near a dementor and every good feeling, every happy memory will be sucked out of you. You'll be left with nothing but the worst experiences of your life."

Im sure I had a dream about watching a Lethifold getting fatter...

ravenclawgrl
November 7th, 2003, 11:59 pm
Ok, guys, this has happened to me before... if there is a thread like this, feel free to delete mine....

okay... my friends harryfantotheend and DarkMark90 and i came up with this strange theory that when Death Eaters die, they become Dementors. After all, they both share such a hatred to mankind...

cleansweep11
November 8th, 2003, 12:09 am
Intresting.......but I doubt it...........There are alot of Dementors and Death Eaters are fairly new.........also Dementors are another species.........I doubt in Death you change species............its like saying that Harry will die and come back as a centaur............now that would be freaky.............;) lol..........but good theroy all the same.

HannahStarr
November 8th, 2003, 2:52 am
There's a thread on Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=13077&highlight=dementors) that sort of discusses this (i.e. where they come from). But DEs becoming Dementors when they die? Somehow, I don't think so.

After all, they both share such a hatred to mankind...

Do they really? Or is their hatred toward half-bloods and Muggles? That's not ALL mankind, ya know.

FarhanaK
November 8th, 2003, 4:18 am
Hm........... :shrug: I guess that could be true.

rotsiepots
November 8th, 2003, 6:45 am
Dementors have existed well before Voldemort and his supporters.

Besides, Dementors are described as creatures; I have my doubts as to whether they were ever anything resembling human.

hesdead-dealwithit
November 8th, 2003, 3:55 pm
Notice how the dementors sort of appeared out of thin air in the beginning of OotP, and then, when Harry used the Patronus, they kind of disappeared into thin air? Maybe dementors aren't separable entities, but just can form and dis-form, so to speak, at will?

cleansweep11
November 8th, 2003, 4:04 pm
He'sdead-Didn't it say that the dementors flew/floated away.......?

Dedalus
November 8th, 2003, 4:15 pm
I think Dementors must be able to talk, judging by the Fudge comment and the fact that Fudge and Dumbledore seem to know what they think or want, as though they've communicated with them in some way.

But then they don't seem very chatty. They just seem like silent, drifting monsters. And if they lack any human conscience or a soul, even, why would they be given a voice to speak? Unless they only speak when they really have to.

Perhaps they do talk telepathically. Or perhaps they just convey feelings in a flash of imagery, like the reverse of Leglimency - putting a thought into your head, but a visual one rather than in words.

JofpGallagher
November 8th, 2003, 4:24 pm
Ok, guys, this has happened to me before... if there is a thread like this, feel free to delete mine....

okay... my friends harryfantotheend and DarkMark90 and i came up with this strange theory that when Death Eaters die, they become Dementors. After all, they both share such a hatred to mankind...
I have the idea that dementors have some sotra "intelligence," hence a soul or certain individual personality. I don't think all of them are or think like one. Then, I wonder, liek Helhorn posted in her first post, how they are "created". They cannot simply exist. They have to have an origin, and coming from humans can be credible. Furthermore, can they be destroyed? Forever?
So the only think that I can came up talking about the Death Eaters is that once they die, their evil soul goes somewhere where they can be sorted, or maybe for their own will, to become a Dementor. So dementor could be the product of an evil soul with the mission of capturing good souls or destroying people with good souls or happiness. DE have an evil soul if they don't change their minds like Snape did. So, I believe they can't be destroyed (They are death already) but they can be sent back to whatever you may call it (hell? :p) forever as they failed in earth they will not return as a Dementors....hmm

hesdead-dealwithit
November 9th, 2003, 2:17 am
He'sdead-Didn't it say that the dementors flew/floated away.......?
Yes. I don't have the quote with me, but that sounds like what it was. And think about it. When dementors leave somewhere, they stay on the ground - notice in PoA how the demetors walked/glided back to their posts. Either way - they cannot fly, normally. That is why when they go into the air in OotP, they may just be floating away into nothingness - normally they cannot float away and stay dementors.

I'm not sure if this is how dementors work, I'm just throwing it out there. Whatever the case, demetors do not have a normal life cycle. They almost certainly do not have parents. Maybe they can form and "un-form" and re-form, but they do not live and die like humans do.

Kaonashi
November 9th, 2003, 3:21 am
I think dementors are more like a force of sheer negativity; the demons of the Wizarding world. i don't eventhink those are their bodies; I think that's the guise they take on when they have to do things on the earthy plane, kinda like the Nazgul.

Liselle
November 15th, 2003, 11:54 pm
was just browsing on line and I came across a curious theory.....Liselle



******

In rereading book three, I noticed several instances where the Dementors specifically target Harry. They first try to get at him on the train to Hogwarts; then they attack during the quidditch match. Though Lupin indicates they were drawn by their ever-growing hunger for the crowd, the book clearly states that Harry saw "At least a hundred dementors, their hidden faces pointing up at him," (Prisoner of Azkaban pg 178). Finally, they attempt to administer the dementor's kiss on Harry near the end of the book; the professors are alarmed, of course, but seem to think that the dementors were simply out of control. I think that the dementors are targeting Harry for a purpose, and we'll see why in one of the next books.



* aside we saw this in ootp obviously, here comes the interesting bit though!*

Perhaps they are more drawn to him because he has such dark memories, and consequently is a very satisfying prey. Or perhaps the dementors mistakenly think that Harry is actually Voldemort since Harry does seem to have acquired some of Voldemort's attributes, such as his ability to speak Parseltongue. Wouldn't it be interesting if Voldemort was finally destroyed by a dementor because of his connection with Harry? Voldemort mentions numerous precautions he took to avert his own death; perhaps the dementor's kiss is the only thing capable of destroying Voldemort.

cleansweep11
November 16th, 2003, 12:03 am
Actually they weren't drawn to him. At the quidditch match they came because there wa such a large crowd filled with excitment for them to feed on. On the trai they were checking for sirius. They just effected him more then others.

Liselle
November 16th, 2003, 12:20 am
I just thought it would be an intersting point to discuss. Maybe they do sense Harry as Voldemort or like him...

Liselle

hesdead-dealwithit
November 16th, 2003, 1:12 am
I've got a small question, partly related to dementors.

If Sirius was less vulnerable to dementors as a dog, why did he change from a dog back into a human when the dementors arrived in PoA?

Tirwen Lupin
November 16th, 2003, 1:16 am
Heh, I never thought about that... I guess he panicked and transformed back. He was also saying "nooooo, please", so he possibly was trying to plead with them as a last resort. I can easily understand him not being able to think straight in that situation.

And, I haven't checked the book, but did it say exaclty that he was less vulnerable to them as a dog? He was kept sane by the knowledge that he was innocent. They thought he was loosing his mind when he was a dog, but I don't know if that exactly would help him by the lake.

hesdead-dealwithit
November 16th, 2003, 1:45 am
And, I haven't checked the book, but did it say exaclty that he was less vulnerable to them as a dog? He was kept sane by the knowledge that he was innocent. They thought he was loosing his mind when he was a dog, but I don't know if that exactly would help him by the lake.
Hmmm, not sure, that was always my impression. I always thought that changing to a dog helped keep his sanity as well as having the knowledge that he was innocent. I'll edit this soon when I find it (if no one finds it first ;))

Tirwen Lupin
November 16th, 2003, 3:26 am
Actually... Sirius does say that, since he stayed sane from the knowledge that he was innocent, that he could transform into a dog when it become "too much". And since when he was a dog his emotions were less human, he didn't "trouble" the dementors. So it sort of did make him less vulnerable... Though it seems to me that it would help in Azkaban, but not in the situation by the lake.

cleansweep11
November 16th, 2003, 3:26 am
Sirius' emotions were less complex when he was a dog. That helped him because the dementors thought he was breaking down just like everyone else was and they didn't check on him.....the only part that confuses me is why isn't the fact that your innocent a happy thought/feeling?

hesdead-dealwithit
November 16th, 2003, 5:01 am
I've always wondered that too. I guess it would be because it doesn't do anything for him. Even though he was innocent, he was still stuck in a prison with absolutely no hope of getting out, at least until Voldemort returned. Him being innocent didn't help him in any way, so it wasn't a happy thought. It's still a little sketchy, though.

Liselle
November 16th, 2003, 4:16 pm
Sirius' emotions were less complex when he was a dog. That helped him because the dementors thought he was breaking down just like everyone else was and they didn't check on him.....the only part that confuses me is why isn't the fact that your innocent a happy thought/feeling?
I don't think that any of us would be particularly happy knowing we were innocent and stuck in prison yet alone anywhere as bad as azkaban. Surely it would be a sobering thought, not a happy one
Liselle

Jill
November 16th, 2003, 4:48 pm
It is interesting though that even though Sirius would have felt unhappy about being trapped in Azkaban while innocent, that the dementors did not pick up on the inocence at all. Unless they were already in colusion with Voldemort and Sirius Black true emotions where being masked.

Not sure whether to put this here but well, I have also wondered whether someone very powerful in Occlumancy and Ligamency might be able to reple a dementor by blocking out there minds to them. It might explain how Voldemort seems to be able to control them somewhat. It might also be another reason as to why Snape was not placed into Azkaban because he could get out too easily due to blocking the dementors attempts to access his thoughts.

hesdead-dealwithit
November 16th, 2003, 6:48 pm
It is interesting though that even though Sirius would have felt unhappy about being trapped in Azkaban while innocent, that the dementors did not pick up on the inocence at all.
Well, it seems to me that the dementors aren't very smart. I mean, they don't have a mind of their own. They feast on happy thoughts, but I doubt that they process the happy thoughts individually - they just suck them in. So they don't puck up on anything, much less innocence, IMO. And even if they did pick up on innocence, would they tell anyone? I doubt it - that would just lead to them losing another person to suck thoughts from.

Kaonashi
November 17th, 2003, 7:00 am
Not sure whether to put this here but well, I have also wondered whether someone very powerful in Occlumancy and Ligamency might be able to reple a dementor by blocking out there minds to them. It might explain how Voldemort seems to be able to control them somewhat. It might also be another reason as to why Snape was not placed into Azkaban because he could get out too easily due to blocking the dementors attempts to access his thoughts.

Interesting that you said that. Lupin mentioned in PoA that "there are defenses that one can use." Therefore there has to be more than the Patronus Charm to repel demementors. Both Lupin and Dumbledore shot silver stuff out of their wands to make the dementors go away.

kismetgirl
November 17th, 2003, 7:23 am
It is interesting though that even though Sirius would have felt unhappy about being trapped in Azkaban while innocent, that the dementors did not pick up on the inocence at all. Unless they were already in colusion with Voldemort and Sirius Black true emotions where being masked.

Not sure whether to put this here but well, I have also wondered whether someone very powerful in Occlumancy and Ligamency might be able to reple a dementor by blocking out there minds to them. It might explain how Voldemort seems to be able to control them somewhat. It might also be another reason as to why Snape was not placed into Azkaban because he could get out too easily due to blocking the dementors attempts to access his thoughts.


Snape was never in Azkaban b/c he was cleared by the council b/c DD shared how he quite being a Death eater before Voldemort's fall and was actually a spy.

Jill
November 17th, 2003, 8:16 am
Snape was never in Azkaban b/c he was cleared by the council b/c DD shared how he quite being a Death eater before Voldemort's fall and was actually a spy.

Yes I know Snape was never in Azkaban but I was suggesting that this was another reason as to why Snape was let off.

Interesting that you said that. Lupin mentioned in PoA that "there are defenses that one can use." Therefore there has to be more than the Patronus Charm to repel demementors. Both Lupin and Dumbledore shot silver stuff out of their wands to make the dementors go away.

Yes I think the dementors can easily be blocked using Occlumancy by a powerful wizard. Even more so I think that ligemency can be used perhaps to extract from the dementor what was taken away in the first place.

So perhaps this is how the wizards are going to over come any attack on them by dementors, or at least I think it may pay a small roll in that defence.

Liselle
November 17th, 2003, 11:44 am
I'd forgotten about the "defences" that could be used, I suppose that there has to be more to repelling dementors than just a patrous.....Legimency falls into that category of defence methinks....

where would they put a legimens so if they could overcome a dememtor or overcome a wizard then? could their abilities/powers be capped? a bit like magneto in XMen and his plastic prison?
Liselle

Jill
November 17th, 2003, 11:57 am
I'd forgotten about the "defences" that could be used, I suppose that there has to be more to repelling dementors than just a patrous.....Legimency falls into that category of defence methinks....

where would they put a legimens so if they could overcome a dememtor or overcome a wizard then? could their abilities/powers be capped? a bit like magneto in XMen and his plastic prison?
Liselle


I was thinking along the lines of wandless magic wizards being able to do a similar thing without legimens really. You see Snape understood what Harry was thinking in OotP while in umbridges room. Snape used no wand yet was still able to pick up on what Harry was thinking i.e. he did not need the legimens spell for that. So if you can pick up on what people think then surely a powerful wizard could block that person without having to use a wand or anything. So this would also work with a dementor.

Voldemort has control of the dementors somehow and I don't believe that the dementors are under his control willingly.

kismetgirl
November 17th, 2003, 5:18 pm
Yes I know Snape was never in Azkaban but I was suggesting that this was another reason as to why Snape was let off.



Yes I think the dementors can easily be blocked using Occlumancy by a powerful wizard. Even more so I think that ligemency can be used perhaps to extract from the dementor what was taken away in the first place.

So perhaps this is how the wizards are going to over come any attack on them by dementors, or at least I think it may pay a small roll in that defence.


I don't mean this to sound harsh, but the Snape part does not make sense. Basically, this is what you are saying.

Part of the jury's decision to let an innocent man free was that they didn't feel it was an appropriate punishment.

The key word is innocent.

However, I do agree with you about how someone skilled in Occlumency could block the dementors attack b/c they would be able to theoretically close there mind to them.

I think a more convincing piece from the book for your theory is when Fudge tries to arrest DD and he states that he could of course break out of Azkaban, but has more important things to do.

I don't know about the Legilimency part though. My basic understanding about how the dementor's work is that they make one only see negative thoughts in their head. I don't think that they actually take anything from a person, but instead block one from thinking happy and hopeful thoughts. I hope you have never seen a severely clinically depressed person, but they can not function at all.

Jill
November 17th, 2003, 8:16 pm
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but the Snape part does not make sense. Basically, this is what you are saying.

Part of the jury's decision to let an innocent man free was that they didn't feel it was an appropriate punishment.

The key word is innocent.

However, I do agree with you about how someone skilled in Occlumency could block the dementors attack b/c they would be able to theoretically close there mind to them.

I think a more convincing piece from the book for your theory is when Fudge tries to arrest DD and he states that he could of course break out of Azkaban, but has more important things to do.

I don't know about the Legilimency part though. My basic understanding about how the dementor's work is that they make one only see negative thoughts in their head. I don't think that they actually take anything from a person, but instead block one from thinking happy and hopeful thoughts. I hope you have never seen a severely clinically depressed person, but they can not function at all.

Well you have a point the Fudge and Dumbledore conversation, suggesting that it is possible for Dumbledore to break out of Azkaban because he could block them by using occlumancy.

The dementors making you think about what is the worst events of your life, well I am not sure that it is just thinking. I was under the impression that they took away the good points in your life so that you would only be able to see the darkness within yourself.

The kiss of death suggests that they even take the darkness away (your complete soul) leaving you void, empty and soulless and dead. With no escape for your inner self when they have taken that from you.

Lady deMimsy
November 17th, 2003, 8:36 pm
Maybe this is a little off the point, but the dementors seem to borrow a lot from the Furies in classical mythology, who are also described as sucking away happiness and driving their victims mad:
Strange sleeping creatures.
I would call them women but they are not women.
Gorgon-faced, yet not Gorgons.
Black, like the rags of soot that hang in a chimney,
Like bats, yet wingless,
The eyes, the mouth, ulcers.
Their bodies exhale
A stench like maggoty corpses.
Their cloaks are saturated and stained
With their own putrescence
That oozes from them, into the stones.
Who are they? What are they?
Some other kind -- inhuman.
Monsters from a different world,
To be cursed by God and men.
-- Aeschylus, 458 BC
I think it's really cool how JKR borrows so much from different mythological traditions.

Liselle
November 17th, 2003, 10:48 pm
Voldemort has control of the dementors somehow and I don't believe that the dementors are under his control willingly.
I think the voldemort/dementor relationship could be called a "co-operation" for the moment...We know Voldemort is a top class Legimens so he could be controlling them by that, the impervious curse or something we don't know about. Question though if Voldemort is good is Snape better if he hasn't been detected by him?
Liselle

hesdead-dealwithit
November 17th, 2003, 11:28 pm
It's definitely possible that Snape is better in this one area, of Legilimency and Occlumency. It's not possible for anyone to be the best at anything.

About the dementors, I don't think they were and will be under LV's control unwillingly. After all, the dementors and LV are "natural allies."

Kaonashi
November 17th, 2003, 11:41 pm
Yes. Voldemort will let them just wander about, sucking out whoever's good thoughts and souls they please.

jordmundt6
November 18th, 2003, 3:29 am
As long as they stay away from his supporters, that's very true and quite a viable strategy. Unkillable soul-sucking monsters loosed on your enemies. What a powerful weapon.

Jill
November 18th, 2003, 4:17 am
Except for one thing, they are uncontrolable and feed of the worst wizards so how will Voldemort prevent them from turning onto his army of DE and twisted minded people. I mean that is the Dementors fav. food, badness not goodness, which is what will be comming from the order and Dumbledores army. Voldemort is going to have to control them somehow.

Dementors would turn around and travel a mile for the correct wizards to torture with there evil memories, the eviler the wizard the better as far as a dementor is concerned.

jordmundt6
November 18th, 2003, 4:23 am
They feed off whoever is available. Voldemort can give them "a much wider scope for their powers than [Fudge] can." They will go after those with more happy memories, bigger meal, more fun, more energy from it. They'd generally prefer the innocent, that's a lot of happiness and goodness to leech.

Jill
November 18th, 2003, 4:40 am
But it is war and therefore neither side will be showing or experiencing happy thoughts that day. It also depends upon how you define happyness, Lucius and the DE and the centaurs and Voldemort would define this moment as one of the most happiest moments of there life. Bella would be extactic about it all, in fact a lot of the creatures Voldemort has, ie the giants, much bigger and therefore a greater meal for Dementors to feast upon.

So the happiest side would be Voldemorts not the order or the MoM. They would be much more serious and more affraid of the outcome.

rotsiepots
November 18th, 2003, 8:36 am
When Dementors perform the Kiss they don't seem to discriminate between feelings of happiness, sadness, anger etc. Both Harry and Sirius were obviously terrified in PoA, but the Dementors still went after them.

Ultimately, the Dementors would rather perform the Kiss on as many people as possible than just act as guards at Azkaban. The fact that they suck-out all feelings of happiness is just product of their presence; I'm not sure if they actually benefit from this.

Liselle
November 18th, 2003, 10:58 am
When Dementors perform the Kiss they don't seem to discriminate between feelings of happiness, sadness, anger etc. Both Harry and Sirius were obviously terrified in PoA, but the Dementors still went after them.

Ultimately, the Dementors would rather perform the Kiss on as many people as possible than just act as guards at Azkaban. The fact that they suck-out all feelings of happiness is just product of their presence; I'm not sure if they actually benefit from this.Exactly, like at the quidditch game, it was their idea of a feast, as long as the dementors can get at as many people as they can they're satisfied. There is probably more feed in happy people than sad ones.

Liselle

Jill
November 18th, 2003, 11:14 am
When Dementors perform the Kiss they don't seem to discriminate between feelings of happiness, sadness, anger etc. Both Harry and Sirius were obviously terrified in PoA, but the Dementors still went after them.

Ultimately, the Dementors would rather perform the Kiss on as many people as possible than just act as guards at Azkaban. The fact that they suck-out all feelings of happiness is just product of their presence; I'm not sure if they actually benefit from this.

Exactly, like at the quidditch game, it was their idea of a deast, as long as the dementors can get at as many people as they can they're satisfied. There is probably more feed in happy people than sad ones.

So if this is true then how are the dementors beging used to contain the prisoners at Azkaban. Why don't they not go after a more interesting source of yummy goodness.

Why do they not seek out what they want, why do they stay at the prison at all. They could leave and find muggles a much easier target and in more quantity. So why do they stay at Azkaban?

Liselle
November 18th, 2003, 3:10 pm
So if this is true then how are the dementors beging used to contain the prisoners at Azkaban. Why don't they not go after a more interesting source of yummy goodness.

Why do they not seek out what they want, why do they stay at the prison at all. They could leave and find muggles a much easier target and in more quantity. So why do they stay at Azkaban?
The dementors were under the control of the ministry but have switched alligances and are back on the side of Voldemort. I'm not sure if they were ever really siding with the ministry, was it just the absence of Voldemort that made them guard Azkaban? were the ministry offering something to them that we don't know? It wouldn't shock me one bit if they were

Liselle

jordmundt6
November 18th, 2003, 8:13 pm
Rotsie--the suction of happiness is their rattling breath. Emotion any emotion is a banquet to them. That's why they target souls. They probably cut the deal with the Ministry to avoid getting starved into nothing.

Jill
November 18th, 2003, 8:25 pm
Yes but which emotion is stronger, happyness, sadness, revenge, greed or elation.

Which of these is a dementor more likely to want to lunch on?

As this will depend upon whether or not the Dementors need to be controled in some way by Voldemort or not.

To get the dementors to as you want them to do, you must either have to control them or as you said jordmundt6 bribe them..

Oh and how do you think the school are going to stop them from getting in and munching on the students?

Does Hogwarts have a defence for these creatures or not?

hesdead-dealwithit
November 18th, 2003, 11:21 pm
Oh and how do you think the school are going to stop them from getting in and munching on the students?

Does Hogwarts have a defence for these creatures or not?
I would bet that right now Hogwarts does not have a defense, but I would be very surprised if Dumbledore couldn't make one. How about some sort of line made of the substance that makes up a Patronus extending all around the school? Dementors couldn't cross that, I doubt, and I would bet that at least something like that is inside of DD's capabilities.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 12:29 am
The Patronus age-line? The perfect meld of two ideas. But he tends to go for simple answers not exotic ones. Maybe periodic blasts of intense sunlight at encroaching dementors?

hesdead-dealwithit
November 19th, 2003, 12:38 am
The Patronus age-line? The perfect meld of two ideas. But he tends to go for simple answers not exotic ones. Maybe periodic blasts of intense sunlight at encroaching dementors?
Or something. The sunlight is definitely an idea, although I don't think dementors are that averse to it. Either way, I refuse to believe that DD couldn't repel the dementors.

GryffindorSeeker
November 19th, 2003, 12:40 am
The Patronus age-line? The perfect meld of two ideas. But he tends to go for simple answers not exotic ones. Maybe periodic blasts of intense sunlight at encroaching dementors?
Sunlight? Interesting.That would be something. Wouldn't a Patronus age-line be called something like a Patroni-line? Maybe a soft voice saying "think happy thoughts , think happy thoughts...." would drive the dementors to insanity or into oblivion.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 12:48 am
like one of those robot voices at the Ministry--speaking of the Ministry, there are two levels missing. Level 1 and Level 8. Unspeakables are 9 and we heard about 7 but nobody stopped on 8 and nobody went to 1.

I mention intense sunlight because Harry comments that Sirius went somewhere tropical and doesn't believe that Dementors would do too well in sunny places. Hey maybe they break down into Lethifolds if they stay in the sun too long.

hesdead-dealwithit
November 19th, 2003, 1:17 am
The Atrium seems to be Level 8, since the next floor in the sequence is Level 7. Level 1 could be just an extension of the Department of Law Enforcement, but is most likely Fudge's offices and those of his administration. Anyway, just a side note.

About the sunlight, we can't exactly trust Harry on this topic, because he's not an expert. Regardless, I can't either see the dementor's being to effective in the sunlight or in the tropics. You know how some people get depressed by winter, and made happy by summer? It's like that - it's easier to be happy in the sunlight.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 1:27 am
I know we can't necessarily trust Harry on this, but I thought it was an intriguing possibility. And your right, even if they could survive, they couldn't hunt very well.

fruitia pickleweed
November 19th, 2003, 3:24 am
...the dementors seem to borrow a lot from the Furies in classical mythology...

Thanks for the great quote from Aeschylus. You've really got something there. The Furies were also agents of justice. They went after Orestes for killing his mother.

At the same time, the Furies couldn't go after innocent people, I believe -- they were kind of a personification of "natural justice" or "guilty conscience," right? They would home in on blood guilt rather than innocent happiness.

Kaonashi
November 19th, 2003, 6:24 am
They just like to munch on any positive emotion. If greed makes you happy, they'll munch on that too becasue by god, you're happy and they are not. It's like they know they are damned and they want you to be too.

Liselle
November 19th, 2003, 1:47 pm
I didn't think of the fact that Hogwarts is exposed at all with the dementors siding with Voldemort, its a sitting duck.....how many unwilling parents could be leveraged with their kids held to ransom? My guess is that the Patronus will be taught now....the DA have showed that its possible for them to learn it. DD will probably think up some defense alright though


Liselle

London_luv89
November 27th, 2003, 7:57 pm
Lethifolds....Lethifolds.... ummm.Maybe it means something in greek or latin or something..... or maybe it's an anagram, I was checking it out and it almost looks like Lethal Folds......but I'll check it out....

hesdead-dealwithit
November 27th, 2003, 7:59 pm
Lethal folds is probably where JKR made the name from. (Knocturn Alley - nocturnally; Diagon Alley - diagonally; - it's not new.) I don't think anagrams have anything to do with it.

PanzA1370
May 16th, 2004, 6:55 am
Ok. I have been pursuing this theory for a long time before I saw this thread and I have come up with a lot however there are holes I'm hoping u people can fill in. I have read the entire thread so this will kind of be a summary of it. In Fantastic Beasts, there is a beast called the Lethifold. The following are the facts given:



"mercifully rare"
"found solely in tropical climates"
also called the living shroud
resembles a black cloak
is usually about half an inch thick and thicker after digesting a victim
glides along the ground at night
is described in the only first hand account as clammy and cold
repelled only by the Patronus Charm


We see from this entry various similarities between the Lethifolds and the Dementors. The dementors look like some sort of skeleton wearing a shroud. Is also associated with clamminess and cold. Is also only repelled by the Patronus Charm. The Dementor doesn't seem too fond of daylight.
The two also share differences. We have been tipped off in the book by Harry that the Dementors cannot take heat, while the Lethifold lives exclusively in exotic climates. When repelled by the Patronus Charms, Dementors disappear while Lethifolds are merelt tossed in the air and thrown back followed by a hasty retreat. Lethifolds have no abilities other than their physical smothering attack while the Dementors have their Kiss. Despite the differences however, it is futile to deny that Dementors probably originate from Lethifolds.
So, how do we resolve the origin of the Dementors? Several intelligent suggestions have been made in this thread. Crossbreeding of species involving Lethifolds, Dementors turning wizards into Dementors w/ the Kiss (doesn't explain however the origin of the Dementors) and Lethifolds turning into Dementors when they have devoured a certain amount of people.
When considering these options we must note other things. The Dementors fingers are focused upon a lot. They are described as having the look of having been in water for a long time... Dementors can also fly as evidenced by the movie (so far only trailers but u can tell). Dementors are classified as Beings as they are not included in Fantastic Beasts which does leave us with a very slight chance of them being some form of Spirit, a seperate classification. Also another interesting note is that JKR in Fantastic Beasts, makes a point of saying twice that the Lethifold devours its prey only after it has been successfully suffocated (I could be reading too much into it but it contributes to my theory later).
The following are possibilities I have come up with which I have also rated and attached questions:

Crossbreeding - After being reminded about the comment about the dementors hands and the water and the rotting, I began to search Fantastic Beasts for some kind of water creature that could have some human like qualities, especially fingers. I found such a creature. The Grindylow (remeniscent of Grendel from Beowulf) is a water demon which is aggressive to Muggles and Wizards alike thought Merpeople have been able to domesticate it. It has long powerful fingers. Possible intelligence factor coming from the Merpeople.

Rating (1-5): 2 --> All this accounts for are the water references and not much else. Why can it fly? Why does it disappear when with the Patronus? Why the Kiss?

Lethifold eats wizard - As I noted above, JKR makes a point of mentioning that a Lethifold eats a successfully suffocated prey. What if the Lethifold accidentally devoured a yet alive Wizard. This could have some wierd effect. Maybe in this state the wizard would remain alive and the Lethifold and the wizard would combine or rather engage in some sort of battle in which it assumes Dementor form, where the Wizard, now reduced to a living skeleton, can only keep battling the Lethifold with what repels it, the Happiness of the Patronus Charm. This could be what drives the Dementor to suck happiness from people so that it can fight the Lethifold. Why then does the Dementor simply disappear when hit with the Patronus? I theorize one of two things: 1) When hit, the Lethifold component of the Dementor is damaged, giving the wizard what he wants and maybe providing the wizard with more control after which the Wizard uses Disapperation and disappears. 2) When the Dementor is hit, all of the dementor is damaged, lethifold and wizard because of their "relationship." Caused to flee by this as in the pure Lethifold case, the Dementor makes use of its Wizard's sides best escape trick: Disappearation.
But what about other things like the Dementor's ability to fly when the Lethifold can only glide? What about the Kiss? I theorize that these two powers are simply an effect of the bewildering and amazing combination of the two creatures. The Kiss in particular seems fitting as the Dementor is repelled by the Patronus, an outwards burst of good and happy energy, while the Kiss is a sucking in, a stealing of that good energy. This theory would also explain why the Dementors are not placed in the Beast classification.

Rating: 4 --> This theory accounts for everything except the references to heat and water regarding the Dementors. Otherwise I don't mind saying that this is a **** good theory. It could definitely be improved upon or added on too to help.

***Guys this is the end of my reply (sigh of relief) but I've put soo much energy into this because this is a clear mystery that JKR has left until the last two books, the peak of the series, to explain. The subject of the Dementors is very important and we cannot answer other questions about the Dementors until we come up with a sufficient answer about their origins. Please, if u cant add, just pose questions and I can try to answer. Thanx a lot guys!!!***

zeldaman67
June 9th, 2004, 3:05 am
I havn't read this entire thread but i have read most of it. Here is my Theory on dementers but i wrote this before I knew about the Lethifold and that idea seriously weakends my argument but I do have some ideas about it which i will add afterwords


Now before i begin I would like to go over what a dementer is. They are soul suckers who feed on happy memories. they are blind and are skeletal almost like spirits. They are used to guard the wizard prizen Askaban. They are not really in our world and are just sort of attracted to happiness and have no real countious mind. They don't seem to be naturaly born and it seems like thier are no male or female dementers, which beings me to the next theory.

Now this is my theory. Out of all the ghosts we have met at hogwarts do any of them seem seriously evil? The bloody barron is a mystery and could perhaps be bloody for another reason (trying to save someones life ect) and peeves is actualy a polterguist.

Also hogwarts is the only place we have actualy seen ghosts and they do seem to be controlled by the ministery to be forced to stay there... now doesn't that sound like the minister controling the dementers in Askaban. Perhaps dementers are just the ghosts of horrible whicked wizards. surly those wizards who have died a death by being tracked down by the ministery or others would want revenge and would not want to leave this world? Perhaps they come back in the form of dementers. And if many of them where voldemort supporters then is it any wonder that they all are in a alliance with him?

Could ghosts be able to defend against dementers.. their appearence in the harry potter books seems to be almost the same of the Patronus.. so perhaps they are one in the same. Could the ghosts be the defenders of hogwarts against the dementers? If Voldemort is controlling the dementers and there a lot of them judging by the ones they sent to hogwarts (which couldn't ahve been that many of them) then maybe the ministry and hogwarts have the ghosts living there in case of a mass dementer outbrake... think of the horror. I'm sure that most wizards can not make a Patronus so they would be defencless of thousands of dementers came down on them...

So thats my theory... tell me what your think

P.S. To add in the Lethifold thing, perhaps the lethifold, which seem a lot more barbaric and simpler are some sort of animal form of a dementer. This would also be strnage because could a animal truly be evil? Well magical animals are a lot more smater then normal ones so perhaps they can be evil if they make their own decitions... Some to think of it doesn't the Chimaera also live in the jungles and forests.. and aren't they very very rare.. and being somewhat part man they can obviosuly make decitions and be evil so maybe Lethifolds are the ghost spirits of dead Chimaera?

FirefightingMuggle
June 9th, 2004, 6:14 am
I don't know if a ghost would be a defense against a Dementor. Ghosts are said to be in OotP (and forgive me....I have insomnia and I don't have the page number right handy) as a feeble imitation of life. I would think that after the body passes away the spirit or soul whatever you call it, stay behind even after the body has passed on. So I would think that maybe Dementors would be able to eat Ghosts, seeing as ghosts are really nothing more than the spirit of the person.
Now the interesting question here, more so than can Ghosts defend against Dementors, is can Poltergiests defend against Dementors? We haven't really seen why Peeves is allowed to remain at Hogwarts, as he clearly causes quite a bit of mischief, but there has to be a reason. And, while JKR has defined what goes into making a Ghost in the wizarding world, she hasn't explained what goes into making a poltergiest. Peeves has a lot of characteristics that the Ghosts don't really have. He can pick things up and throw them for one. The only Ghost we have seen that can move anything physical is Myrtle, and we've only seen her do that with water (making splashes and such). Peeves also has the ability to have things shoved up his nose, (Waddiwasi spell in PoA), where that same wad of gum would have just passed through a regular ghost. We know ghosts can be petrified, but we don't know if Peeves can. And while Peeves give the students a hard time, most of what he does is pretty funny.
I'm interested to see what role Peeves does play in the overall scheme of things, and if he can be used to fight off a massive Dementor attack.

mevam
June 9th, 2004, 3:26 pm
I wonder if truly evil wizards become Dementors when they die? Same as how other wizards can choose to stay behind as ghosts or move on to the afterlife, but Voldemort would certainly fit the role of a happiness sucking monster well.

LilyEvans
June 9th, 2004, 6:33 pm
That's a very interesting theory, I think. Dementors are soulless, correct?

A ghost is merely the choice to walk the path 'where there living selves once trod', but is only a feeble impersonaion of life.

Can Dementors actually FLY? They do in the film, but in the book they merely glide. I find it an interesting point, as they do not seem to fly high, merely glide a few inches above the ground.

If they are an anthropomorphic personification of depression, ghosts, I imagine, would be just as susceptible. They are after all, merely a pale set of memories, recollections, a pale imitation of *** life they once had.

But poltergeists are different. I think they are a Spirit unto themselves. I wonder how they come to be? Maybe a malicious trickster's death?

arcanus
June 10th, 2004, 12:01 am
The bits I've highlighted are also Dementor related features. Plus, Harry stated in book 4 he didn't think they could withstand heat, but in book 5 it is a massive heatwave at night the dementors attack, again similar to a lethifold. So it is therefore my theory that a dementor is created when a lethifold has eaten a certain number of victums. The putrid breath and scabby horrible hands sound like a digested victim, and the fact they have human form under their black cloaks.

Like I said, it's probably been mentioned elsewhere but there's other questions about them!

Thoughts?

Hi, a really convincing theory over all, but Im not sure if Harry meant that the can't withstand heat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my memory doesn't fail me Harry thought that the couldn't withstand bright sunshine. Otherwise I quite agree with your theory, it's kind of creepy though... :scared:

ThruTheVeil
June 21st, 2004, 7:03 am
I don't know if this has been covered or not, but I had written this response to a post that was closed before I replied. So, since I still want to get my opinion out there, I'll post it here instead. :)

I don't know that Dementors can be killed. I think the more interesting question is how they are created. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the His Dark Materials trilogy, but in that series there are these creatures called Spectres. They are very similar to dementors with the exception that they can only attack adults. These beings are created everytime someone would cut a doorway into another universe. Anyway, before I digress from my point completely, I just think that it is more important to know how dementors are created. If they are the result of some action (such as the cutting of the doorways was in His Dark Materials), their numbers could be limited by trying to decrease or stop that action.

Ana-Magus
June 30th, 2004, 7:09 am
I searched past threads and could not find the answer to my question... if it's out there, please let me know!

I just finished reading Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them - the dementors are not mentioned and I was just wondering... why?

No three headed dogs either....

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

ardnaxela
June 30th, 2004, 7:41 am
Not that I have any solid information, but I figured that it was because they were human created. Ie. The three headed dog was illegally bred, and the Dementors were created from Lethifolds.

Thats just my view, though, so who knows (other than jkr herself)

Alex

Ana-Magus
June 30th, 2004, 7:58 am
I was think the same when I read that the only defense against a Lethifold is the Patronus.... But it also says that Lethifolds are found only in tropical climates and according the the FAQ on the Publisher's site - Azkaban is In the north of the North Sea... not too tropical there.....

I'm not sure.... unless they are classified as some type of ghost... they should fall under the guidelines of a "beast"

Mopsus
June 30th, 2004, 9:00 am
I'm not sure.... unless they are classified as some type of ghost... they should fall under the guidelines of a "beast"
Actually, I think Dementors are classified under the "Being" category at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, because the definition for "Being" as set in 1811 is (translated from Dutch):

A being is a creature with sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to abide by these laws.

So far, Dementors are still abiding by the laws of the Ministry of Magic.

Barbara Kennedy
June 30th, 2004, 9:17 am
To find out about dementors, try one of these threads.

All about Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=13077)
Dementors and lost memories (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=25445)
Dementors – can they break the Fidelius Charm? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=27177)
Neville and the Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24630)
Are Dementors male or female? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=21802)
Reversing the Dementors’ kiss (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11002)
Ginny, Ron and the Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23856)
Fate of the Dementors (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=27718)
Dudley Demented (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11250)

Loz
June 30th, 2004, 9:27 am
:rotfl:

Uhmm, have fun Anastasia23 ;)

I think I'll merge this with "All About Dementors"

*merge*

tarachristwen
July 1st, 2004, 11:05 am
to me, the dementors were rather similar to the ringwraiths in LOTR ...in black flowy robes, creepy, deadly,have dark intentions...etc...i think they can be destoyed,somehow....but dunno how....

Greyhounds15
July 11th, 2004, 3:54 am
I think dementors originated in Antarctica. Trust me, I am over-obsessive with them. Here's a link to my post explainning this: http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=29667

Loz
July 11th, 2004, 4:09 am
Why do you think they originated in Antarctica, Greyhounds15?

Greyhounds15
July 11th, 2004, 4:22 am
I think they originated in Antarctica because they like cold, dark places the best. They could've liveed in ice caverns. This is just something I thought up, but it seems pretty logical to me.


<img src="http://nimbo.net/quiz/gryff2.gif" alt="i'm in gryffindor!"><br>

Classical_Wizar
July 11th, 2004, 4:24 am
Azkaban is up in the frozen north sea too so maybe you are on the right track Grey.

Greyhounds15
July 11th, 2004, 4:26 am
If anyone has any questions about dementors for me, I'll probably be able to answer almost any of them. :)

DarkThunder
July 11th, 2004, 8:28 am
Greyhounds15, is it possible to kill a Dementor? Patronus' just make them run away dont they...

filius
July 11th, 2004, 9:50 am
I think it might take really dark magic to kill a Dementor.. but neither do i think we will learn any dark magic in the future books!

Greyhounds15
July 11th, 2004, 3:04 pm
I don't think it's possible to kill a dementor. As far as I know, you can only repel them.

Hedwiggie
September 6th, 2004, 11:34 am
I recently read an editorial by Antony called "How Are Dementors Created" and it certainly made me think. His theory was that they were made after wizards passed through the veil - which is certainly a terrifying thought as he said it would mean Sirius would become the thing that Harry feared the most.

And I also started thinking that if that theory is true, or if there was one similar to that cause it could well be with all the information we have been given so far, would it be possible that after Voldie was defeated, the Dementors could return to their original state? And if Antony's theory holds, Siruis would be back! And he and Harry could go off at the end of the book and live happily ever after.... I wish!

Egla
September 6th, 2004, 12:03 pm
I think the veil is just a portal to the "other side", used for execution of evil wizards before Dementors were used to administer their "kiss". The voices Harry heard from beyond the veil were probably the people he saw dying.

Anyways I read a fanfic that had a nice theory regarding the Dementors, when a wizard is "kissed" their soul gets sucked out and their body changes in a dementor. Little too much like lotr though.

Hedwiggie
September 6th, 2004, 12:04 pm
That's an interesting theory - that when people are kissed they turn into Dementors. I mean, JKR never did tell us what happened to the people who have been kissed.

Charly tha girl
September 6th, 2004, 12:38 pm
Jo did tell us what happens to you when you are kissed by a dementor!
It sucks out your soul, though your body will still be working and all. So 'you' are gone, but your body still exists.

I think you'll find this thread interesting:
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6718

Hedwiggie
September 6th, 2004, 12:46 pm
no, no - i know that - but i meant that she didn't tell us where they are now and what their bodies look like.

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 12:47 pm
.nods.

Yeah i think the "being kissed by and dementor make you a dementor" theory is about the best. But that still leave the question of - where did the -first- dementor (that kissed the others to make them into dementors) come from?

Hedwiggie
September 6th, 2004, 1:00 pm
Ooooooh, good question, Katieo. Maybe it was someone who sold their soul (though not to the devil, otherwise they would be in hell) and then they tried to get another soul by sucking it out of some other person, but all they did was create a second dementor...

DragonBlk17
September 6th, 2004, 1:08 pm
Ooooooh, good question, Katieo. Maybe it was someone who sold their soul (though not to the devil, otherwise they would be in hell) and then they tried to get another soul by sucking it out of some other person, but all they did was create a second dementor...

:agree: Maybe they sold their souls to Voldemort? :whistle: Maybe.....

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 1:15 pm
Maybe it was someone who sold their soul (though not to the devil, otherwise they would be in hell) and then they tried to get another soul by sucking it out of some other person, but all they did was create a second dementor...

.nods.

This is a probable theory. At first i though perhaps the Dementors hadnt once -been- anything and they were just a magical creature - like Boggarts and Grindylows etc. Which could still be true but then youve got the "What happens to -kissed- wizards?" question again.

InvincibleAgent
September 6th, 2004, 1:15 pm
Maybe Voldemort created the dementors...

EDIT: Here's something to think about: Voldy said "They [Dementors] are our natural allies" or something like that.

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 1:23 pm
Voldy said "They [Dementors] are our natural allies" or something like that

Thats true. But if Voldy created them how did the M.o.M manage to get them to work for them at Azkaban? Surely they would be forever allied with the man who created them?

DragonBlk17
September 6th, 2004, 1:24 pm
Maybe Voldemort wanted them to work at Azkaban for information on something?

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 1:30 pm
Yeah but if they were working for Voldemort all that time surely they would have set all the Death Eaters in there free long before they did.

Egla
September 6th, 2004, 2:08 pm
I don't think LV created them, they are probably the result of some dark wizardry in the past. Some crossing of species or something. They are around much longer than LV.

They are the natural allies because they are evil, just like LV and DE.

crumseekerlynch
September 6th, 2004, 3:08 pm
Your crazy. That theory isn't even literate much less does it make any sence.

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 3:25 pm
.looks confused.
what theory are you talking about Crum?


Anyway i was just looking at another topic which had an interesting point for -this- topic...

The person said that in PoA or whatever i cant remember - they said the Sirius watched the Dementors bury Crouch....

...as i remember Crouch Jr committed Suicide? (am i right?) so perhaps kissed people just get buried like the others.

Vance
September 6th, 2004, 3:59 pm
Maybe they're a cross of lethifolds and something else. But then again didn't J.K. Rowling said they were born out of darkness, decay, and unhappiness? I don't think they bury kissed people, since they are technically alive, but then what do they do with their bodies? Maybe they have a special ward for them at St. Mungos. Maybe they treat them like they're in a lifetime coma.

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 4:03 pm
.looks terrified.
Really? They're born out of darkness and decay?

.looks worriedly at her slipppers.

hmmm...maybe ill take my mums advice and get a new pair...

MadamPudi
September 6th, 2004, 4:32 pm
Maybe this will help.

One young Canadian boy earlier asked her how Dementors breed. "I was just so pleased that he thought about it and pleased that I had the answer," Rowling told The Canadian Press. These evil creatures don't, by the way, breed but grow like a fungus where there is decay.] Canadian Press article (October 2000)

www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2000/1000-canadianpress-moore.htm
That's where I found the article.

So I don't think that getting the kiss will turn you into one since the just grow like a fungus.

Katieo
September 6th, 2004, 4:39 pm
.eyes widen.

i KNEW there was something in my slipper!

.hides.

Thank you for clearing that up

.nods.

Tarawyn
September 6th, 2004, 4:47 pm
I'm going to merge this into a general thread on dementors with a bunch of speculation on this. :)

Sharpturn
September 6th, 2004, 4:55 pm
.nods.

Yeah i think the "being kissed by and dementor make you a dementor" theory is about the best. But that still leave the question of - where did the -first- dementor (that kissed the others to make them into dementors) come from?


maybe it came like the LOTR Wraiths.. no that is a good question. However they may be creatures of dreams.

I know I'm jumping books here, but there is a series called the immortals, and the immortals were created from dreams. Stormwings, so people would think tweice about battle for the stormwings would feed on the dead.

MAybe someone dfreamed up the demewntors for a similiar purpose.

Egla
September 6th, 2004, 5:29 pm
Your crazy. That theory isn't even literate much less does it make any sence.
If your talking about the kiss theory, I think it makes sense although it maybe wrong it's not such a strange thing.

And i've read some more of your posts and I suggest you try to respect other people's opinion more, cause you have posted pretty rude comments.

Hedwiggie
September 6th, 2004, 10:11 pm
Thank you Elga and very well said indeed!

And has anyone else lost any line of fear at Crumseekerlynch's comments considering they can't even spell :huh: :p

portableswamp
January 30th, 2005, 8:32 pm
do y'all think it could be possible that the dementors knew sirius was innocent? If they had some type of power or something and they somehow knew he was innocent, i dont think they would have set him free, do u? becuase all they care about is pain and suffering. they dont seem really good or bad, do they..they just serve whichever side gives them the most benefit. I think they definitely would have kept him to torture his mind whether he was innocent or not. it would have just been an excuse for them to do that to someone....

brokenglasses
February 20th, 2005, 3:57 am
I've always had questions about the dementors. Are they creatures with living tissue and organs? Could you shoot one to kill it, that type of thing. Or are they more like a supernatural being, like a spectre of some kind. When my parents saw the PoA movie they called them "demons". That's their christian idea of what a dementor could be. I always that of them as creatures. Something needs air to live and is made up of some sort of living tissue. Now, I don't know. But this threads raises good questions. I just don't know any of the answers. :huh:

Genevieve
March 5th, 2005, 2:40 am
This is just a thought and I haven't put much time into reasoning it out, but want to hear if ya'll think it's worth considering.

In Lord of the Rings, the Ring Wraiths sold their souls to Sauron for the 7 rings of power, they used to be men. They were killed by the sword of a hobbit and a woman.

What if the Dementors were once men who sold their soul for ever lasting life by drinking a unicorns blood? I've been wondering what happened to people who drank the blood since the first book. What did she mean that they'd be condemed to a half life? How do we destroy Dementors by making them drink Holy water?

Just thoughts thrown out that I haven't seen before. Forgive me if they are repeated else where.
Night all!

crystal_joy
March 5th, 2005, 2:49 am
What if the Dementors were once men who sold their soul for ever lasting life by drinking a unicorns blood? I've been wondering what happened to people who drank the blood since the first book. What did she mean that they'd be condemed to a half life? How do we destroy Dementors by making them drink Holy water?

I understand your theory and I think it may be plausible, but how does Holy water work into the mix?

Genevieve
March 8th, 2005, 2:31 am
I understand your theory and I think it may be plausible, but how does Holy water work into the mix?


Well it was late, and I just needed an object or something that was untainted, blessed and powerfully good, so Holy Water was the first thing that came to mind. . . it may have also been the one whole glass of wine I drank, I know light weight.

Shylock
June 10th, 2005, 10:44 pm
Hmm, they say Dementor grow like fungi.

My theory is that the cold feeling and bad memories being relived are a result of the spores the Dementor would give off. The feeling you get from a Dementor is merely an allergic reaction to the spores, or the spore contains a hallucinagen, as fungi (magic mushrooms anyone?) are sometimes used as a narcotic. The allergy could be carried on the allele for magic, that would explain why Muggles arent as effected as wizards.

Sprout1962
June 10th, 2005, 11:48 pm
So then a patronus is like an allergy pill (like Claritin) that keeps you from being affected by the allergen?

wizkid6
June 11th, 2005, 1:56 am
Hmm, they say Dementor grow like fungi.

My theory is that the cold feeling and bad memories being relived are a result of the spores the Dementor would give off. The feeling you get from a Dementor is merely an allergic reaction to the spores, or the spore contains a hallucinagen, as fungi (magic mushrooms anyone?) are sometimes used as a narcotic. The allergy could be carried on the allele for magic, that would explain why Muggles arent as effected as wizards.
Muggles are as affected as wizards. Dudley didn't seem too well-off after the dementors came. They just can't see dementors.

And I don't think naturally sent out spores are the reason for reliving your worst memories. Dementors feed on emotions, indicating that they make you go through them on purpose.

Shylock
June 12th, 2005, 3:22 am
So then a patronus is like an allergy pill (like Claritin) that keeps you from being affected by the allergen?

No, the Patronus removes the source of the spores.

And I don't think naturally sent out spores are the reason for reliving your worst memories. Dementors feed on emotions, indicating that they make you go through them on purpose.


Well, that is their magical element at work.

elperuaan
June 16th, 2005, 10:30 am
It's quite simple I think, if you are such a bottom feeder that you can live of negative emotions, it pays to be able to magically induce a worst memory. So sucking out all positive emotions is a good way to do that. After JKR admitted that dementors were really a description of depressions, it's perfectly clear what dementors do. A depression is 'fed' by the fact that you keep thinking about all the horrible stuff in life, and feel you'll never be happy again. So, thinking about that will strenghten your depression, so you will start to think about horrible stuff more often, so the depression becomes stronger...etc. It's a nice little circle that the dementors use. One that can only be broken if you remember just in time that you do have positive memories, and you concentrate on that. Then the circle works the other way, eventually driving the dementor away.

On a different note. Harry seems to be a prime target. I used to think that this was only because he had such tasty memories which in turn bring some very juicy emotions...But then I thought: hang on, he's the only one we know that can describe the dementor itself, not just his clothes and actions! None of the other characters talks about scabbed hands and stuff. Even Lupin has to admit that there has to be a mouth, but that he doesn't know that for sure. Does this mean that seeing the dementor itself is also special, like seeing the thestrals? When the dementor is first introduced, it's clearly stated that it notices Harry's seeing his hand, and he pulls it back into the folds of his robe....It just seemed so significant that it is stated that he notices Harry's stare, not that of all the others in the compartment.. Just a thought.

Sprout1962
June 16th, 2005, 11:03 pm
elperuaan, interesting point about Harry being the only one who really describes the dementors. I wonder if the others don't really see the details or are unable to see the details? It's kind of surprising that Prof. Lupin, as a DADA teacher, wouldn't have more details to give Harry. It's almost as though Harry knows more about what they look like than Prof. Lupin. Even Sirius, having spent so much time in the company of the cheerful dementors, doesn't give us any additional details about what their physical characteristics are.

Wickedfire
June 16th, 2005, 11:18 pm
That's a really good point!Harry does see them more than others. I hadn't noticed that, but maybe it's just because the main character is Harry and we read the book in his point of view. Those Dementor are kind of like demons, Why on earth the MoM would think they could keep them under control is beyond me!

tuitus
June 17th, 2005, 4:28 am
Harry is afraid of dementors, and his close observance of them shows he accepts his fear, but is willing to confront them.
Dementors are demons in the sense they spread evil to the surface of people's everyday lives for the continuation of negativity. The MoM however is government, and like all governments they seek to hold strong their dominion regardless of good/evil actions. So in the Ministry's POV, having dementors guard the wizard prison keeps the dementors under check, and most of the prisoners are trapped inside their own heads. They did not consider dementors seek allegiance with whoever can offer them what they simply need: unrestrained access to as many souls as possible.

Sprout1962
June 17th, 2005, 7:41 pm
Yes, tuitus, I think you're correct when you say the MoM didn't consider allegiances that would be sought out by the dementors. Shortsighted, as so many of the Ministry policies are.
What I wonder about is this: Where are the dementors now, and what are they feeding upon?

Snape4Pres
June 17th, 2005, 9:08 pm
Maybe a Dementor is a dead lethifold....

tuitus
June 20th, 2005, 2:33 am
I don't think dementors are deceased lethifolds because death itself is undisturbed rest. If lethifolds die, why would they continue to need sustenance (of emotions)?
The dementors are most likely following Voldemort's orders, correct? Having hundreds of hooded twelve-foot monsters gliding out in the open is a bit of giveaway to where Voldemort shelters. So, he might have ordered the dementors to hide in shadows til his plans can commence. Maybe at night they can hunt in delapidated places (ghettos), the Ministry would take for granted the health of downtrodden people.

hpfan2010
June 20th, 2005, 3:57 am
] Has any one noticed that on the main page of mugglenet.com under creatures it where it gives a discription on dementors it doesn't mention that muggles cannot see dementors? If they cannot see dementors then can the see Lethifolds? What's the deal with dementors anyway.... why would you want one of those nasty things guarding Azkaban? Why would the Minisrty of Magic be so cruel?

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invisinudnik
June 20th, 2005, 4:39 am
elperuaan, interesting point about Harry being the only one who really describes the dementors. I wonder if the others don't really see the details or are unable to see the details? It's kind of surprising that Prof. Lupin, as a DADA teacher, wouldn't have more details to give Harry. It's almost as though Harry knows more about what they look like than Prof. Lupin. Even Sirius, having spent so much time in the company of the cheerful dementors, doesn't give us any additional details about what their physical characteristics are.

Then again, that could just be because we heard it all from Harry and there was no need to repeat using another character.

As for the MoM...Fudge has already shown that he doesn't think ahead that far unless it so he can gain more prestige. Using the dementors to guard a prison was an easy way out to him in order to deal with problematic criminals (including Death Eaters). This would also explain why he employed the Dementors again after Voldemort's first reign.

synyan
July 5th, 2005, 8:22 am
this may sound like luna lovegood, but the only think i know about dementors is that it could be voldemort's patronus.

Ginnygirl09
July 24th, 2005, 4:09 pm
I've found this lack of Dementors to be quite interesting in HBP. They were mentioned really, in only the first chapter when the Muggle Prime Minister asks Fudge what was causing the strange out of season mist. Fudge answered him by saying that it was caused by the Dementors, that they were breeding. :huh:

I myself find that to be quite alarming and was surprised to hear virtually nothing else about the Dementors for the rest of the book! I was simply wondering if anyone else had anyother opinions on this matter.

Sharky
July 24th, 2005, 4:11 pm
Yeah I found it quite odd! Maybe Voldemort is waiting to breed a MASSIVE army of them before he unleashes them on the good side!

nic_c
July 24th, 2005, 4:17 pm
I thought that it was a bit odd also. I mean there is all this mist and the fact that there are going to be many more dementors about, and no one says anything!!! Not even any gossip about it!!!!

ggu
July 24th, 2005, 4:19 pm
i don't have the book on me right now but i'm pretty sure that when they r at the burrow they say in the daily prophet that there r demetor attacks and killings almost daily now, but yeah they don't metion them that much but then again why would she coz their all at hogwarts, so they r safe

nic_c
July 24th, 2005, 4:26 pm
Surely there would be some gossip in Hogwarts about dementors, even if they feel safe!!!

soccerluver13
July 24th, 2005, 5:42 pm
There were a few reports of dementor attacks mentioned in the DP, but nothing related to people that we know, like members of the Order, students, or family.

Madnessisme
July 24th, 2005, 5:50 pm
Oddly enough, I wasn't really worked up about them attacking people, I was more of 'Dementors can re-produce???'

Anyhoo, I think we'r definitely gonna see more of them in Book 7. As for nobody talking about it, we don't know about what anyone is thinking, except Harry, and he was too caught up with Malfoy's 'secret', and his little crush on Ginny and all the raging hormones all over the place to notice.

kleets712
July 29th, 2005, 10:28 pm
Ok but i have found several references to mysterious mist.

The first chapter of course says that they are breeding
Spinners end speaks of the mist creaping across the ground when bella and cissy first get there

In Horace slughorn chapter harry talks about mist creeping close to his window and a chil that he expieriences and associates with dementors

Frubaloo
July 29th, 2005, 11:08 pm
Oddly enough, I wasn't really worked up about them attacking people, I was more of 'Dementors can re-produce???'


Lol, yeah, me too. Though I was sort of surprised that they weren't mentioned at all, weren't noticed at all, etc. throughout the rest of the book.

cybobbie
July 29th, 2005, 11:24 pm
I found estrange too, but what ocurred to me is that JKR just mentioned that they arebreading to prepare us for a big strike of them in the last book.

Naoko Tasaki
July 29th, 2005, 11:52 pm
Yeah, a big army of them could swoop down at any moment...O.O

I was very surprised when I learned they could breed. I beleive I said, ".....what?"

GlassRoses314
July 29th, 2005, 11:57 pm
I was shocked that they can re-produce too lol. I wonder how they actually do that? ..eee nm

Also, it is weird that they're never mentioned much after that. I think it's just been established that The Dementors have actually joined LV and are no longer on the good side. I think they'll probably be more prominent in book 7 since they've created a whole lot more now. I wonder how long it takes for a Dementor to mature? Are they born live or in an egg type thing? What are they anyway? Weird...