Voldemort's Mother

Justin Etre
March 6th, 2003, 11:28 am
SUDDEN CRAZY THEORY ALERT!!!

I suddenly realised that it is unlikely that really dead. Then I started thinking maybe none of her story is true.

Did she die in childbirth?
As the heir of Slytherina dn a pureblood wizard, I find it inlikely that a she could die in childbrth. She sould be made of stronger stuff than that

So where is she?
Maybe she is Arabella Figg, sudden wild thought. I think that she wanted her son to lead a normal muggle life and gave him to her husband. Either that or she was told that if she didn't leave her son would be killed something like that

Is she good or bad?
I want to say good, even though she is Slytherin's heir, maybe that is why she gave her son up, she didn't want him to lead the same evil life as she did.

Does Dumbledore know?
[i]Another sudden wild thought...what is she knew her son would be Lord Voldemort because Dumbledore either foresaw it and told her or she knew herself; she didn't want him to know of his wizarding powers so she gave him to his dad to raise him muggle and left him. She still satys close to Dumbldore though.

Picko
March 6th, 2003, 11:36 am
Well she could have easily died at childbirth, it isn't exactly uncommon, there could have been numerous complications...or she could have been taken out of purpose **Possible Conspiracy**

Justin Etre
March 6th, 2003, 11:39 am
EXACTLY PICKO, possible conspiracy!

GlassRoses314
March 6th, 2003, 11:47 am
I, for some reason, believe that she's still alive and/or was good rather than evil. I don't know why...I just do.

Picko
March 6th, 2003, 11:59 am
Well if she is alive she'll definately be good because it would coincide with Dumbledore's theory that its our choices not our abilites that choose who we become, it would be very ironic in a way.

Alastor
March 6th, 2003, 1:21 pm
To pretend to be dead and let her only son grow up in a muggle orphanage doesn't seem 'good' to me.

miri
March 6th, 2003, 2:19 pm
Yeah, if she'd raised him she could have tried to instill values into him. And he wouldnt have such a chip on his shoulder about muggles

Picko
March 6th, 2003, 2:24 pm
Well there could always be more to it than she simply left on her own accord, maybe she had no choice? We don't really know.

By the way, I still don't think that Voldemort's mum is alive.

Justin Etre
March 6th, 2003, 4:19 pm
Sh ecould be Arabella Figg, Picko? How about that for a crazy unfounded theory?

EvilMeghan
March 6th, 2003, 4:45 pm
I highly doubt that she is Arabella Figg. It's too illogical. Crazy. Unfounded.

Justin Etre
March 6th, 2003, 4:48 pm
Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202722#post202722))
I highly doubt that she is Arabella Figg. It's too illogical. Crazy. Unfounded.


Okay, Sirius Black, Voldemorts right hand man, who killed poor Peter in the street is Harry godfther, yeah right!
See, sometimes unbelievable stuff is true!

Alastor
March 6th, 2003, 5:33 pm
Sirius, Voldy's right hand man, killed Peter???????????????????
Ever considered reading GoF an option?

And yes Voldy's mother being Arabella is illogical, crazy and unfounded. But having Voldy's mother back to life is too.

Daily Propheter
March 6th, 2003, 6:00 pm
I doubt Voldy's mum is still alive. But, on the other hand, I like the theory that she wasn't evil. The right vs. easy thing would come into play again, if that were the case.

Yadiami
March 6th, 2003, 6:48 pm
Whoa! I really like this theory. As you've said it's totally crazy, illogical and unfounded. But it would be very interesting.

I can see Harry's face if he discovers the old lady who taked cared of him so many times was the mother of the bad guy who killed his parents, try to kill him and had made his life difficult since that day. That would be wonderful.

What could be the consequences if Voldie find out his mother is still alive and she's one of the good side?
Could he realise he was wrong, ask for forgiveness and go to Azkaban voluntary or kill himself? Heer, no.
Could he be absolutly angry at her because she let him in that orphanege ignoring the reasons she could have? And then, try to kill her and making some terrible mistakes which lead to his definitive downfall? Sounds good to me.

It would be quite interesting if she were to be a former Slytherin and finally we could see some good Slyths.

EvilMeghan
March 6th, 2003, 7:04 pm
There are good Slytherins - look at Snape. He's a spy for the good side. :D

Yadiami
March 6th, 2003, 7:49 pm
Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202843#post202843))
There are good Slytherins - look at Snape. He's a spy for the good side. :D


That's true, but if JKR manages to make some of them nice it would be much better (and realistic)

miri
March 7th, 2003, 1:05 am
*is convinced I posted about this recently*

After reading the new posts and being gratified my idea was accepted as well as the initial one, I also decided I see no reason why Arabella Figg shouldnt have been a Slytherin. DD obviously doesnt distrust him based purely on that - look how he treats Snape!

I reckon the old gang will represent all houses :)

Bilbo
March 7th, 2003, 1:33 am
*Applauds creativity of theory*

I believe that Voldemort's mother could be alive. While childbirth complications are normal, in my view, it could do little harm to a witch. Witches and wizards are called supernatural for one reason: they are above the natural order. Super being a superlative. (Read more about that in "On Fairy Stories," by JRR Tolkien.)

As for the Figg theory, I have very mixed feelings. Plotwise, it seems illogical. However, thematically, it makes sense. A Slytherin rebelling against the values of her anscestors.

Ava
March 7th, 2003, 1:53 am
I'm open about Voldie's mother being alive but not old Mrs. Figg. But as you say, what may seem as impossible can be the truth.

Justin Etre
March 7th, 2003, 1:04 pm
Originally posted by Alastor D (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202763#post202763))
Sirius, Voldy's right hand man, killed Peter???????????????????
Ever considered reading GoF an option?

And yes Voldy's mother being Arabella is illogical, crazy and unfounded. But having Voldy's mother back to life is too.


What I meant was, sometimes we are told something in the books,. and later on we are told the truth, which may seem unbelievable at first, but is tru.
Alaster D, ever considered reading, twp's guide to Sarcasm?

Alastor
March 7th, 2003, 1:26 pm
Originally posted by Justin Etre (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=203763#post203763))

Alaster D, ever considered reading, twp's guide to Sarcasm?


No. And that's simply because I have no idea who twp is.

venus1818
March 7th, 2003, 2:03 pm
There are good Slytherins - look at Snape. He's a spy for the good side.

I agree. I think there are good Slytherins. When we are told that there isn't a single black wizzard that didn't come from Slytherin, consider two things:
- it can be an exageration of truth, sometimes that happens;
- even if it is true, all it's saying is "all black wizzards were Slytherins", not "all Slytherins are black wizzards".

Slytherins are ambitious. Ambition is not a bad thing if you put it to good use. What happens is that most people are prejudicious against Slytherins, and so, they tend to see them as being all bad. There are good and bad people everywhere. So, there were certainly good Slytherins in the past, as there might have been bad Gryffindors, Hufflepuffs or Ravenclaws.

Justin Etre
March 7th, 2003, 2:49 pm
Originally posted by Alastor D (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=203769#post203769))
No. And that's simply because I have no idea who twp is.


Sorry, welsh slipping out. A twp is an idiot, a thick person. I apologise

sano orbis
March 7th, 2003, 10:00 pm
Originally posted by Alastor D (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202607#post202607))
To pretend to be dead and let her only son grow up in a muggle orphanage doesn't seem 'good' to me.


What if she KNEW he was the heir, and gave him up to the muggle world to try to prevent him from ever learning about the magical one?

aiko amaya
March 7th, 2003, 10:06 pm
doesn't make sense, what kind of mother would let her child grow up on his own when h's a wizard and put him in a muggle orphange, and this doesn't seem to be JKR's style, I know I say it way to many times when Ipost but thats how I feel on many subjects

Weatherby
March 7th, 2003, 10:17 pm
While it's possible she's not dead I doubt she gave him up because Dumbledore predicted he'd be evil.
Though that would say a lot about destiny. The general consensus is Voldemort hates muggles because of his father. No one could forsee something happening after they changed it so Voldemort would have to have another reason to hate muggles.
Snobbery then.

I seriously doubt she's Arabella Figg though (is everyone in the HP world Figg?). The rest of the theory is a good one.

dorcasderr
March 7th, 2003, 10:24 pm
Voldemort's mother apparently gave birth to him in a Muggle setting, having been abandoned by her Muggle husband. Why she didn't go back to the magical community I know not. But, that said, if she gave birth under Muggle conditions she could have been a victim of plain old error, uncleanly conditions, a botched job by the doctor. She was a witch, but witches are human and mortal. Normally they live longer than Muggles, but they DO die. Otherwise the magical community would be considerably larger than it is, AND peopled with a lot of very old people. The founders of the four Houses would still be around, for heaven's sake. So, they die. I think that Voldemort's mother did undeed die, or, possibly, she went into a coma or was physically incapable for some other reason and the baby was taken from her and given to the Muggle orphanage without her knowledge...

Bilbo
March 8th, 2003, 12:38 am
Dorcasderr, I agree witches do die. However, I have a problem with a witch dying from childbirth complications. Perhaps, his mother won't be mentioned. Maybe she will be. Maybe she is Trelawney. Anything is possible. And while she is most likely dead, I stand by the fact that it couldn't be by complications from childbirth.

Fuchsia
March 8th, 2003, 12:58 am
There is a little Arabella Figg in all of us.

I think that a witch can die of childbirth complications if that child is Voldemort. He's foul and would do great damage to ones body.

Alastor
March 8th, 2003, 7:59 am
Well, Tom Riddle jr was obviously born somewhere in the 1930s. Dying of childbirth complications wasn't rare in those days.

And groving up in a muggle orphanage may be reason enough to hate muggles.

Camo
March 8th, 2003, 9:16 am
I like the theory thah his mother is still alive but it still sounds crazy. Where is she now and where was she while Voldy was killing everything for 12 years? For that reason I believe she is either dead or possibly alive but not on the good side. Maybe the bad side but maybe just somewhere in between where she is torn between her son and the good side.
Anyway, it would be really interesting to see her alive and fighting Voldy.

Bilbo
March 8th, 2003, 7:46 pm
Originally posted by Alastor D (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=204691#post204691))
Dying of childbirth complications wasn't rare in those days.




Very true. However, my thought process is that it would take more than giving birth to Voldemort to kill a witch. Those are just my personal prejudices.

Blayde
May 2nd, 2003, 6:30 am
We all know JKR isn't a sloppy writer, if she does or doesn't tell you something, there's a good reason.

We also know she rarely goes without naming a character, however unimportant, we even know the name of the Marvalo's gardner, and Albus's brother. So why does a very important piece of information seem to have been left out of the books?

It seems that this may end up being very important to the plot

Who is Voldemort's mother?

Is she related to Dumbledor (seems unlikely)? The Potters? Lily's family?

Come to think of it, why is so much information about Lily left out of the books?

I'm sure it has been suggested many times before but is her family also at least part-wizard? Afterall, we know that only wizard children use magic around their homes (numerous times throughout the series), and Aunt Petunia gives the impression that Lily used it all the time at home.

rotsiepots
May 2nd, 2003, 10:03 am
I'm going to merge this with an existing topic on Voldemort's mother entitled Is Voldemort's mother really dead? (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6570) You can find this thread in the Great Hall. :)

Just for the record, Voldemort's mother was related to Slytherin and had a relative named Marvolo. We know the name of the Riddle's gardener (Frank Bryce) but nothing about Marvolo.

Auri DeMeer
May 2nd, 2003, 5:29 pm
I think Voldemort's mother must have been very brave to marry a Muggle if she was also an heir of the Slytherin family.
I imagine her family as very proud of being pure blood and expelling her of the family for marrying a Muggle.

When she gave birth she preferred a Muggle hospital, so:

* either she didn't have any family left to turn to, or

* she was indeed expelled from the family and they didn't want anything to do with her, or

* she didn't ask them for help because she was too proud to do it and thought she could handle the situation herself.

What became of her family though? It's a big mistery.
They didn't take care of her son when she died... Possible reasons:

* they were already dead;
* they didn't accept him for being the son of a Muggle - they had other options to carry the family line;
* they never knew she had had a son.

There may be even more possibilities. Dumbledore said that Tom Riddle went traveling after leaving Hogwarts... Maybe to look for Dark Wizards to join him, to look for inmortality... And also to look for the remains of the family of his mother? I believe so.

Did he found them? Where are they now?
Dumbledore said Voldemort is the last descendant. How can this be possible? It must be difficult that a person who lived so many years ago doesn't have a more "extended" family.

Dongaga Eatcafé
May 2nd, 2003, 6:03 pm
Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=300999#post300999))
Dumbledore said that Tom Riddle went traveling after leaving Hogwarts... Maybe to look for Dark Wizards to join him, to look for inmortality... And also to look for the remains of the family of his mother? I believe so.

That's interesting. When Salazar Slytherin left Hogwarts - because he disagreed with the other three founders, maybe he settled somewhere to the East and founded Durmstrang. They focus more on Dark magic and are more "restrictive", after all.

For some reason and after many many years, Voldemort's mother ended in Great Britain and her son was called to Hogwarts.

jordmundt6
May 2nd, 2003, 6:06 pm
That's a generalization but it seems to have more actual truth in the last decade or so (since Karkaroff took over at Durmstrang)

Auri DeMeer
May 2nd, 2003, 6:11 pm
Originally posted by Dongaga Eatcafé (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=301043#post301043))
For some reason and after many many years, Voldemort's mother ended in Great Britain and her son was called to Hogwarts.

That's right. No other "heir of Slytherin" had ever tried to open the secret chamber since the Middle Ages. Maybe because they were good and Muggle-loving.... Or because they were in Durmstrang!

Anyway, what became of the remains of the mother's family? Are they still in Bulgaria (or wherever Durmstrang is)? If they are alive, Dumbledore doesn't know about them, because he says Voldemort is the "last" one.

Dongaga Eatcafé
May 2nd, 2003, 6:24 pm
Perhaps Dumbledore says Vodemort's the last descendant because Voldemort made sure there were no other descendants.:devil: He killed them, that is.

Auri DeMeer
May 2nd, 2003, 6:47 pm
I posted in another thread that I think Harry's grandfather (James' father) did some traveling too and that's where he bought/found the Invisibility Cloak.

So, he could have been to that country and met someone from the mother's "lost family" and married her. In that case, James and Harry would have been descendants to Slytherin, and that's why Voldemort wanted to kill them too.

In this way, James and Harry are descendants to Slytherin, but not related at all with Voldemort himself. Does this makes sense to you? As far as we know, this could be right. What do you think?

Girl
May 2nd, 2003, 7:19 pm
That makes. It would also explain why Harry looks alot like his father and Tom riddle.

FawkesBox
May 2nd, 2003, 9:36 pm
Originally posted by Alastor D (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202607#post202607))
To pretend to be dead and let her only son grow up in a muggle orphanage doesn't seem 'good' to me.

However- she was good enough to love someone and have a relationship long enough to have (at least one) child;)

Weatherby
May 2nd, 2003, 9:47 pm
I'd like to know how she met Riddle Sr and married him.
How do pure blooded wizards add muggles to their social circles?

Lupins Ladee
May 3rd, 2003, 12:24 am
My personal theory is that Volde's mother was not against muggles or mudbloods but her pureblood (Sytherin) family was. So she left and moved to a small muggle town. Since she did not grow up there she was new "blood" for Tom Sr. and she didn't know the Riddle's reputation though experience only though word of mouth. And I think she was a good women who tryed to think the best about people so she gave Tom Sr. a chance. If he married her then he must have thought she would be a good trophy wife (I think she was gorgeous and smart). If she lived with pureblood Slytherin's then they may have had money so she had the breeding. She would be the "perfect" rich man's wife. If they merely had an affair that's believable too. A Beautiful young women living alone in a new town. When he found out she was a witch it either ruined her perfect status or allowed him to break the affair more easily. We don't know if he knew she was preggers or not but, I think he did. I think that is the only reason she had to tell him she was a witch. Beacuase like Harry little Tom would be doing emotion magic and Tom Sr. wouldn't know what was going on. Plus they must have been togeather for a while for her to get preg and for her to love him enough to name the baby after him. It seems to me that she was a good women who was surrounded by evil people who hurt and betrayed her. And I think it is feasable she died during childbirth. It was the 30's, a muggle hospital, she may have been a tiny women, mixed with her depression from being abandoned by everyone, and add maybe even her not being able to properly take care of herself b/c she may have had little money and no support after Tom Sr. left. So I think it would be very easy for her to die. Or maybe she killed herself. (I assume a witch or wizard could) She realized that she couldn't care for a baby by herself and in the 30's being a single mother was the scarlet letter unless your husband died. So she knew she could not care for him but, if she didn't kill herself then she could never give up her baby. So she was out of options. That would add another layer to the story. And maybe even devastate Voldemort to know that is mother left him on purpose too. It could push him over the edge to the piont where he would be destroyed.
Ok now I am treading into Drama Soap Opera territory but, these are my theories.

Earendil
May 3rd, 2003, 12:35 am
Interesting theory, Lupins Ladee.

I think that V's mom's death does add a layer to the back story. We need to have a feasible explanation to contribute to the degeneration of Tom Riddle into Voldemort, and I think that the untimely death of his mom adds to his pent-up trauma.

I would like to know more about Marvolo. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Marvolo the father of Momma Voldie? It's probably irrelevant, but I would still like to have his story cleared up in the next 3 books.

migo
May 3rd, 2003, 2:26 am
Originally posted by Yadiami (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202885#post202885))
That's true, but if JKR manages to make some of them nice it would be much better (and realistic)


I think Snape's nice...

Blayde
May 3rd, 2003, 5:54 am
I posted in another thread that I think Harry's grandfather (James' father) did some traveling too and that's where he bought/found the Invisibility Cloak.

So, he could have been to that country and met someone from the mother's "lost family" and married her. In that case, James and Harry would have been descendants to Slytherin, and that's why Voldemort wanted to kill them too.

In this way, James and Harry are descendants to Slytherin, but not related at all with Voldemort himself. Does this makes sense to you? As far as we know, this could be right. What do you think?

I like this idea very nicely, it fills in a lot of the gaps, including why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry. Since we already know that Harry may well be the heir of Gryffindor, through one side or the other.

Come to think of it, this would also explain why Voldemort didn't feel the need to kill Lily, if James's side was descended from Slytherin.

I would be willing to bet that it was Lily's side that was descended from Gryffindor.

Rowena Ravenclaw
May 3rd, 2003, 7:20 am
I don't think how Voldemort became what he is is as important as the fact that he did. I can't see how giving him a living mother would add anything besides complication to the story, unless she was used to generate sympathy for him, and I don't think we're supposed to feel that.

Besides, I very much doubt Voldemort's mother is still alive in any form. People still die from childbirth complications today, and as others have mentioned, her depression would make her less likely to fight for her life. And I've always sort of pictured Riddle/Voldemort's life story as something of a carryover from Victorian times (Oliver Twist, et.al.). Mothers never survive in those.

Auri DeMeer
May 3rd, 2003, 4:25 pm
Originally posted by Blayde (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=301921#post301921))
I like this idea very nicely, it fills in a lot of the gaps, including why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry. Since we already know that Harry may well be the heir of Gryffindor, through one side or the other.

Come to think of it, this would also explain why Voldemort didn't feel the need to kill Lily, if James's side was descended from Slytherin.

I would be willing to bet that it was Lily's side that was descended from Gryffindor.

Although I think Harry has some Slytherin blood in his veins (as I explained earlier in this thread), I still think that he's Heir to Gryffindor too. And not through Lily or through James. It takes more than a blood link to be an Heir to Godric; in other words, you don't need to be his descendant, imo.

So, he's got Slytherin blood through James' mother and he's got a Gryffindor side because of his own personality and choices.

jordmundt6
May 4th, 2003, 12:05 am
Bzzt. How James' mother? The math doesn't work for her to be Voldemort's aunt and Voldemort has no syblings. And being the Heir does have something to do with bloodline. This isn't Prydain where it's only "noble worth." Don't get me wrong, that's a huge part of it, but there has to be some ancestral link. And James is the only candidate unless Molly Weasley's family (whatever their surname is) were the descendants of Gryffindor and Mr. Evans is the Squib in their line (thus it could have passed to Harry through Lily; this is, however, very doubtful since then Voldemort's targets would have been Lily and Harry and James would have been fought only because he was in the way).

Edit: On Voldemort's mother--She had a difficult delivery (like Agnes) she was disowned by her family (Like Agnes) Unlike Agnes, she lived long enough to name her son. I doubt she was "pretending to be dead" because she would have been buried. Could she have survived underground and dug herself out (without a want, probably) without being crushed or suffocating? I doubt it. She's dead. Her father Marvolo is a descendant of Slytherin. We don't know anything else about him. He could have had other kids but we don't know that.

Blayde
May 4th, 2003, 1:45 am
I still see it as more logical that Lily's side being descendants of Griffindor, and James's side being descendants of Slytherin.

Also: We know Voldemort went looking for his family.

By te time he wrote that diary, he was already able to trace his lineage back to Slytherin.

Auri DeMeer
May 4th, 2003, 1:33 pm
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=302438#post302438))
Bzzt. How James' mother? The math doesn't work for her to be Voldemort's aunt and Voldemort has no syblings.
Voldemort's mother and James' grandparents are very well in the same generation.

It says nowhere that Voldemort's mother was an only child. She could have had 7 brothers/sisters for all we know. One of those could be James' grandparents.:)

jordmundt6
May 4th, 2003, 6:06 pm
James' grandparents? James was born in like 1960. Voldie's mother was born in the teens or maybe the midtwenties. She'd have been what 60 when James was born? That's sort of a tweener age. It's old for James' parents (maybe--see extensive Weasley discussion) but way, way too young for James' magical grandparents at the time of his birth.

DocHollidaywe
May 4th, 2003, 6:20 pm
I dont think it uncommon that she could have died in labor

jordmundt6
May 4th, 2003, 6:24 pm
Not at all uncommon. It's become uncommon only in the last four decades or so in wealthy western countries. Still actually quite common in developing countries.

Auri DeMeer
May 4th, 2003, 6:29 pm
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=303578#post303578))
James' grandparents? James was born in like 1960. Voldie's mother was born in the teens or maybe the midtwenties. She'd have been what 60 when James was born? That's sort of a tweener age. It's old for James' parents (maybe--see extensive Weasley discussion) but way, way too young for James' magical grandparents at the time of his birth.


Ok, this is how I see it (I had to write it down myself :) ) :

Tom Riddle's mother was born in, say 1901 - she had Tom at the age of 25 - so Tom was born in 1926.

Tom Riddle's mother had a sister/brother. This one was born in, say 1909 (eight years later than the other) - she/he had James' mother at the age of 25 - so James' mother was born in 1934. This one had James at the age of 25 - so James was born in 1959 and it fits.

I considered everyone had children at the same age (25). I know this is complicated and may lead to nothing more than nothing, but anyway;D

jordmundt6
May 4th, 2003, 6:46 pm
I like the last section. Just two things in the beginning are bugging me.

1. Voldie's mother didn't seem that old. Off the top of my head i'd guestimate someplace between 19 and 21.

2. If she had a younger sister who was younger by that much, her mother should still have been alive. If anything at all like her daughter, she would have tried to aid her somehow, perhaps clandestinely but TR's mother is cut off from the magical world. Other than that, it may fit.

Auri DeMeer
May 4th, 2003, 6:54 pm
I wondered about her family too - earlier in this thread, and this is what I came up with:

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=300999#post300999))
What became of her family though? It's a big mistery.
They didn't take care of her son when she died... Possible reasons:

* they were already dead;
* they didn't accept him for being the son of a Muggle - they had other options to carry the family line;
* they never knew she had had a son.

Or maybe she was too proud and preferred not to ask anyone for help. What bugs me is, we may never know about this! :(

jordmundt6
May 4th, 2003, 6:58 pm
I think option 1 and 2 that you came up with are the most likely, though I don't think that Marvolo would have thought he had many other options for extending the family line, he'd consider it at an end. His daughter would be dead to him and a half-blood grandson? Bah.

I don't think she was too proud. She would have wanted the best for her son and the best chance for him. I think she tried but she was out of options. In a similar situation I don't think Narcissa would ever consider a Muggle orphanage an option. Not even if she were starving, abandoned, and had not a Knut in the world.

Auri DeMeer
May 5th, 2003, 5:18 pm
Yes, I don't think she was too proud either. After all, she named her son with her father's name Marvolo. It seems as if she would have wanted to give her son the best from both worlds.

A pity that she blindly fell in love with such a **. Muggles are not very well portrayed in the series.

Dongaga Eatcafé
May 5th, 2003, 6:36 pm
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=303647#post303647))
I think option 1 and 2 that you came up with are the most likely, though I don't think that Marvolo would have thought he had many other options for extending the family line, he'd consider it at an end. His daughter would be dead to him and a half-blood grandson? Bah.


I don't think Marvolo gave up so easily. He must have had other options to continue the family line. If Tom Jr had been his last option, he would have taken him when the mother was dead.

Better a half-blood than nothing. It would be a real catastrophe for him to lose the Slytherin blood line completely.

Girl
May 5th, 2003, 9:21 pm
My guess is that maybe Voldermort's mother didn't know that she was an heir to Slytherin. Remember Slytherin lived over a 1 000 years ago his blood line could have been lost of forgotten.
For Voldermort to be the last heir of Slytherin his other relatives from his mothers side have to be dead. They could have either died before Voldermort was born or they didn't know about him.

Since Voldermort grew up in an orphange there was no way that he could have known he was heir to Slytherin. As he was growing up he must have traced his family tree back to Slytherin. after all he grew up in a muggle world and all of the sudden he finds out he is a wizard. I'm sure he would have wanted to find out all he could about his family. It was then that he found out about Slytherin's hate for muggles and mud-bloods. feeling the same way Voldermort decided to follow in Slytherin's footsteps. It was his hate which drove Voldermort into the dark side.

I guessing that his mother was not evil as she did fall in love with a muggle, someone which Slytherin hated.
If his mother was still alive Voldermort might have turned out different or maybe not. We will never know.

zoeydsngwrtr
May 5th, 2003, 9:28 pm
Mabye his father was an evil wizard to concerned with the dark arts also, and his mother saw him for the man he was only after Voldy was concieved, and so hid him away hoping he would never know......wait...
didn't voldy kill his own parents???? I think my mind just got a bit confused. Sorry, well I don't really know where I stand on whether she is or was allive after he was born, but I do rather like the idea that she was a good witch.

edit: oops, forgot to check and make sure there was not more than one page :o

Blayde
May 5th, 2003, 10:02 pm
We don't know exactly when Voldemort became the 'last heir of Slytherin', and could have killed of all others he could find, but missed a pair of ordinary muggles with a fat son, and nothing whatsoever to do with the wizarding world, and was brought down in the middle of killing the one remaining heir...

Doesn't seem unlike something JKR would think up.

She's Crafty
May 5th, 2003, 11:24 pm
Hermione's parents seem all right and they are Muggles. I hope we find out more about them.

Anyway, onto the theory.

This has got me wondering why Voldemort went about looking back at his family history in the first place. Perhaps (like Harry) he wanted to know if he had any unknown relatives who could take him away from his miserable life at the orphanage and simply stumbled across the Slytherin thing - but why look quite so far back? Did he find some clue to the truth? Inquiring mind would like to know.

On to Voldie's mother - i really don't think she is alive. There has been no hints to that at all, or at least not that i can think of right now. I agree it would be a cool twist if she was but i'm doubting it.

Peace and Kittens! :)

Barbara Kennedy
May 15th, 2003, 7:32 am
I'm curious about how Tom Riddle went on this ancestor hunt too. What kind of genealogical records do the wizard world have available to them?

venus1818
May 15th, 2003, 3:27 pm
Did he find some clue to the truth?

I was talking to a friend about that the other day and suddenly I had this idea: besides Voldemort, we've only read about another black wizzard int the books, and that is Grindlewald. Isn't it possible that Grindlewald somehow knew who Voldemort really was, told him that ana taught him everything he knows? When Grindlewald was defeated Tom Riddle was a teenager, and if I'm not mistaken it happened after the chamber of secrets was open.
This is only speculation, but I think it makes some sense.

onetruegryffindor
May 15th, 2003, 5:03 pm
i guess she could be alive and it would be an interesting twist but then JK likes them

FawkesBox
May 15th, 2003, 7:25 pm
Nice work, Justin and anything's possible. Note that Arabella's name is Mrs. Figg. This is not her maiden name -or even her first married name. This could be a clever device from JKR. I also doubt that many witches die in childbirth and this is my big sticking point with Voldemort's story because they have magic to take care of that for God's sake! If they can mend a broken bone in a night surely a few wand flicks would allow a woman to survive childbirth(maybe that's why there are seven Weasleys). This woman was the heir of Slytherin no less! She's got to be one powerful wizardess! I believe that there is something coming from this lady!

fruitia pickleweed
May 17th, 2003, 11:31 am
If Tom's mother gave him the middle name Marvolo after his grandfather (her father), how likely is it that she had turned against her father?

Of course it is possible that he had rejected her, but that she still hoped for a reconciliation.

Auri DeMeer
May 17th, 2003, 5:04 pm
Originally posted by fruitia pickleweed (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=323583#post323583))
If Tom's mother gave him the middle name Marvolo after his grandfather (her father), how likely is it that she had turned against her father?

Of course it is possible that he had rejected her, but that she still hoped for a reconciliation.
Exactly. She named her son after her husband and after her father. We know the husband let her down, and probably also the (proud) father. Still, she hoped some kind of reconciliation like you said from both worlds. It makes her a nice person; a bit naive, perhaps...

HollywoodBob
January 2nd, 2004, 8:48 pm
Holy resurrected thread Batman!

From GoF I got the impression that when Tom M. Riddle was born his mother and father were both in their teens. So it would seem to me that it would be very reasonable for a young girl to be rejected by her family, a young man to accept his responsibility as a father, and the girl to die shortly after childbirth.

-HollywoodBob

thinkpink38
January 3rd, 2004, 2:15 am
I dont think a mother could let go of her child that easily, and live a normal life in everybodys eyes. She could have just died of childbirth. But, I think it would be a pretty neat twist if it is true though.

Discordia
January 3rd, 2004, 12:03 pm
I'm beginiing to wonder if any of you ever actually read book 2. Tom's mother died just soon after he was born. His father was some nast muggle who rejected his wife and child bc they were magical. He seems like the type of snotty guy who grew up soiled and rude and believed everyone was neneath him. He doesn't strike me as the type to fear magic. More like Petunia and her loathing for it. Tom's middle name came from his grandfather. I'm sure that when he got to Hogwarts that unlike Harry he traed his lineage and was able to deduce the rest for himself. Voldemort's hate for muggle's comes from the fact that his muggle father rejected him. Voldemort's father doesn't strike me as the type to remarry bc he had a very nasty personality and he was stilling living at home with his parents. Voldemort's hate for the world comes from his father.

HollywoodBob
January 4th, 2004, 4:35 am
"You see that house upon the hillside, Potter? My father lived there. My mother a witch who lived here in this village, fell in love with him. But he abandoned her when she told him what she was....He didn't like magic, my father..." -Voldemort, GoF page 646

Tom Riddle was very much like the Dursleys, he despised magic enough to abandon his the mother of his child.(JKR never says they were married) We don't even know if Riddle knew of the child. Voldemort says his father gave him his name, but in Riddles memories from CoS Tom says to Headmaster Dippet that his mother lived just long enough to name him Tom after his father and Marvolo after his grandfather. So even Big V is confused about the circumstances of his naming. The only thing he is sure of is that his mother died.

It's my opinion that Voldemorts parents were teens when he was born. His mother was rejected by her family for becoming involved with a muggle and conceiving a mudblood child and abandoned by her lover for being a witch was left to fend for herself. After giving birth and knowing she was dying, she named her son Tom Marvolo Riddle hoping his two families would feel some attachment and take him in. But it failed and Tom was sent to be raised in the muggle orphanage.

When you get right down to it, you can't help but feel sorry for the childhood that Voldemort had. With the anger that sprung from his misery it's no wonder he turned out so bad. :-(

-HollywoodBob

Kidney Pie
August 18th, 2004, 5:19 pm
I just wonder about her. We know she died. I pretty much think died means died..but then again died could mean "died magically" that is she lost her powers. It's all the same to Voldemort. But had she lived, would things be different? Would she have provided the love he needed? What would happen if Voldemort met the ghost of his Mother, who told him she loved him and to spare Harry's life? Why did Voldemort's mother die giving birth, unless she were stranded somewhere, alone and friendless? Why was she alone if she were alone? If she had help during the pregnacy, did she seek help at a muggle hospital, which are not as advanced as a wizard one? Or did she die only after many efforts to save her?

It has always been my thought that she died giving birth and she was alone.
Would time travel change this situation if someone were to go back to assist her?

caindo
August 18th, 2004, 5:23 pm
I think that Voldemort's mum was more like Malfoy's. Give him all he wants. But really could care less about the child. We only met Mrs Malfoy briefly in GoF, but she seemed to really not pay much attention to Malfoy. For some reason, I feel as though Malfoy and Voldemort are more connected besides the fact that Lucius was a DE.

atherella
August 18th, 2004, 5:28 pm
I think that Voldemort's mum was more like Malfoy's. Give him all he wants. But really could care less about the child. We only met Mrs Malfoy briefly in GoF, but she seemed to really not pay much attention to Malfoy. For some reason, I feel as though Malfoy and Voldemort are more connected besides the fact that Lucius was a DE.

Well, since LV's mother died in childbirth, she never really had the opportunity to give him whatever he wanted. I don't think we'll ever know what kind of mother she would have been.

Lord Voldivader
August 18th, 2004, 5:37 pm
She was in love with a muggle, so she probably wasn't THAT bad, I think.

caindo
August 18th, 2004, 5:39 pm
Well, since LV's mother died in childbirth, she never really had the opportunity to give him whatever he wanted. I don't think we'll ever know what kind of mother she would have been.

Right, right. I forgot about that.

Lord Nicholai
August 18th, 2004, 5:57 pm
I imagine her to have been in Slytherin (descendant of slytherin afterall, though thats a theory and by all means doesnt confine her to one house...Neville could be descended from Ravenclaw for all we know :p) But the fact that she loved a muggle shows that her attitude wasnt...'Malfoy-esque'...

Do we know if Mr and Mrs Voldy got married?

C8H10N4O2
August 18th, 2004, 6:02 pm
If she were an heir of Slytherin, wouldn't she have been sorted in to Slytherin? So why marry a muggle? Was she a parselmouth? If not, does that mean it never occurred to her that she was the heiress of Slytherin? Would that, and knowing she married a muggle, imply she wasn't sorted into Slytherin?

Very good thread, and posts. I will follow this one.

Lord Nicholai
August 18th, 2004, 6:04 pm
you assume that all slytherins have simmilar attitudes to Malfoy.

remember that people are sorted into their houses by character traits. determination, intelligence, common sense, loyalty and courage etc. not by their lineage or ideals.

Fool
August 18th, 2004, 6:08 pm
You know I've wondered if Voldie's mom is actually dead. I believe the only insight we've had on that subject is Voldie himself saying she died during childbirth. What if she just abandoned him?

Lord Nicholai
August 18th, 2004, 6:13 pm
do you have evidence to support this? because all the evidence formt he books seems to point to her death.

Fool
August 18th, 2004, 7:45 pm
No, it's all speculation. However the only evidence that she did in fact die was Voldemort's word for it. So it's sort of speculation either way. If she died at childbirth, and his father abandoned him, he was obviously an infant or extremely young when it happened. He in fact would only be aware about it if the orphanage told him about it. Therefore it's conceivable that the orphanage was not given the whole story, or given a false one.

Dedalus Diggle
August 18th, 2004, 7:58 pm
There is a lot of doub about the whole Voldy-origins story. The story he gives is that his mother lived just long enough to name him after his father and grandfather. That part of his birth is surprising enough, considering how resilient magical folk seem to be against every sort of affliction. Certainly she did not tell the orphanage that she was a witch, so that is an addition to the story he has made. The only way he could do that reliably is if he could look up the name Marvolo to find his maternal family. But it would seem he - in his gloating villain overtalkativeness - would have said something about his wizard origins in addition to someone who lived 1000 years ago. If there is that good a wizard genealogoical service (what are they - all Mormon!?), then Harry would have find out about it by now: Ron or Hermione or someone would have told him "Hey, here's where you can look up about the Potters."

winter snow
August 18th, 2004, 8:10 pm
Good thread. As I was reading the posts, I had a question. We know LV mother died in childbirth. I seem to remember LV said when his father found out his (om Riddle Sr.)wife was a witch that he abandoned Lv. Am I right about his? If this is true, how did he Tom Sr find out she was a witch? Did he abandon Lv because Tom Sr. found out LV was a wizard? Does anyone remember this?

TheFifthMarauder
August 18th, 2004, 8:26 pm
She was in love with a muggle, so she probably wasn't THAT bad, I think.

I think that she might've had the same attitude Sirius has towards his family. I don't think she went along with the whole "Pureblood wizards are the best" thing, though she had Salazar Slytherin's blood in her, since Voldything is the last remaining descendant of Slytherin. She may have even been a half blood herself. That would still make Voldything a half blood wizard.

Dedalus Diggle
August 18th, 2004, 8:34 pm
Good thread. As I was reading the posts, I had a question. We know LV mother died in childbirth. I seem to remember LV said when his father found out his (om Riddle Sr.)wife was a witch that he abandoned Lv. Am I right about his? If this is true, how did he Tom Sr find out she was a witch? Did he abandon Lv because Tom Sr. found out LV was a wizard? Does anyone remember this?
We are told that Voldy's mother revealed that she was a witch and that he immediately abandoned her. I suppose we are to presume she revealed it when she was already pregnant. I suppose we are also to presume that she was rejected by her family for marrying a muggle: sounds like a wizard romance novel 'I married a muggle' - or is it the theme of a wizard-Jerry Springer show?

starutena
August 18th, 2004, 8:55 pm
The question is, should we believe anything that LV tells Harry? We know from the diary that Tom told half-truths to get Harry's trust. The same may apply to cirsumstances surrounding his birth. We know that his father left his mother, remarried, and had another child. We also know that LV killed his father. But why? Was it just because he was a muggle? Was it to also avenge his mother? LV's life would have been a lot different if his father had stayed around. Would his mother have survived childbirth if not abandoned? We still don't know much about the orphanage LV lived in.

I have a feeling that LV paints a very sympathetic picture of his mother. I'm sure she was fairly mainstream, as witches go. But I can't help feeling that LV is not telling the whole truth. Or that he doesn't know the whole truth...

caindo
August 18th, 2004, 8:55 pm
For all we know, Voldemort's mum could've been a Hufflepuff. For some reason, they seem to be the most compassionate. And Voldemort hated his father, possibly his mother for loving him and dying.

Dedalus Diggle
August 18th, 2004, 9:03 pm
Or maybe LV's mother just strung LV's father along - perhaps through the use of love charms - and then dumped him once she was pregnant.

ambiyluvsron
August 18th, 2004, 10:47 pm
i to wonder if she somehow transform her to him. do u think waz she a death-eater? i kinda do.

caindo
August 18th, 2004, 10:49 pm
Death Eater's were created by Voldemort.

crookshanksGuy
August 18th, 2004, 11:05 pm
You know, after reading this thread, I feel sort of sympathetic towards Voldemort (a thing which I condsidered absolutely impossible). I start to see that he too, like Harry, was an orphan and he never received his mother's love. He never had anyone to look after him or guide him, or comfort him. Come to think of it, Harry too can take the path Voldemort took fifty years ago, by killing off the Dursleys who made his life hell, and transform into a Dark Lord (he certainly has the magical potential to do it), though I don't think he'll do it, because, as a very wise man said once, "it is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show who we truly are", and Harry isn't a killer.

OK, now I'm branching way off. Got to get back on track, Voldemort's mother. The picture painted by our sources is that of a nice, innocent woman, not the sort you'd expect to be the heiress of Slytherin, who just fell in love with the wrong sort of person. But I don't think that's true, because JKR just said in an interview we'd find out more about the circumstances of Voldemort's birth in a later book.

snakeshark
August 18th, 2004, 11:38 pm
Umm...a dead one? :rotfl: :rotfl:

CuddleCore
August 18th, 2004, 11:57 pm
I wonder how Voldemort found out what he knows (or thinks he knows) about his family. Since his father supposedly abandoned his mother, and she then died in childbirth, leaving Tom to be raised in a Muggle orphanage, how did he find out information about his family? I'm sure the people at the orphanage had no idea his mother was a witch. Who was responsible for telling Tom his history? And is it possible that this person either accidentally or on purpose give Tom faulty information? :huh:

Classical_Wizar
August 19th, 2004, 12:02 am
maybe this one Voldemort's mother
(http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6570&highlight=mother%2A)

aish
August 19th, 2004, 12:07 am
But there is one connection.... LV's mom died giving birth to him and Lily died saving Harry...

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 12:09 am
I wonder how Voldemort found out what he knows (or thinks he knows) about his family. Since his father supposedly abandoned his mother, and she then died in childbirth, leaving Tom to be raised in a Muggle orphanage, how did he find out information about his family? I'm sure the people at the orphanage had no idea his mother was a witch. Who was responsible for telling Tom his history? And is it possible that this person either accidentally or on purpose give Tom faulty information? :huh:
You need to re-read the books...and then think about the movie "Terminator". ;)

maybe this one Voldemort's mother
(http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6570&highlight=mother%2A)
So wait...there's a thread sooo close to this one, yet it continues and mine got closed? Yep...that's justice. :huh:

But there is one connection.... LV's mom died giving birth to him and Lily died saving Harry...
Not the same. Lily died PROTECTING Harry. Tom's mom died from a birth complication (in this instance). ;)

Classical_Wizar
August 19th, 2004, 12:15 am
So wait...there's a thread sooo close to this one, yet it continues and mine got closed? Yep...that's justice. :huh:
it depends on the mods but after you logged on i looked at yours and commented that the person wasnt saying that Sinistia was a vampire but that there was one just as you were saying, and he thought she was the vampire but what did other people think, because so many think that snape is. Sorry would have done it when you were on so you could counter but was watching the olympias.

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 12:32 am
it depends on the mods but after you logged on i looked at yours and commented that the person wasnt saying that Sinistia was a vampire but that there was one just as you were saying, and he thought she was the vampire but what did other people think, because so many think that snape is. Sorry would have done it when you were on so you could counter but was watching the olympias.
Saw your post...sincerely wanted to reply...mods didn't see fit to allow the discussion to continue. I was not saying "There is a vampire in the story." What I was saying is, "Voldemort is a vampire." Those are two different threads...but I won't go into more detail on "why" because clearly the mods don't want me to. ;)

Discordia
August 19th, 2004, 12:45 am
Well we know a few important things about her. One, being that she was a descendant of Salazar Slytherin and was most likely a pure blood. Two, that she fell in love with a muggle. Now supposing that Tom's mother came from a well to do pure blood family they might not have been thrilled that Tom's mother was dating a muggle. So I'm going to assume that if her family was still around that they disowned her bc they obviously didn't want anything to do with a halfbreed grandson. Apparently Tom's mother wasn't one of those people that was all into tha tpure blood mania if she fell in love with a muggle but of all the muggles she picked Tom Riddle which speaks volumes about her taste in men. I think the main thing to focus on of impotance is the fact that she was an heir to Slyhterin and and fell in love with a muggle.

Personally I believe that there is a lot that Voldemort doesn't know about his mother and what he does know, I think some of the facts have been skewed a little. He doesn't seem to have any love for his own mother bc he never knew her and all he seems to have for her is contempt that she named him after hsi father. I think there's more to it than we all know and maybe more than Voldemort knows himself.

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 12:49 am
Well we know a few important things about her. One, being that she was a descendant of Salazar Slytherin and was most likely a pure blood. Two, that she fell in love with a muggle. Now supposing that Tom's mother came from a well to do pure blood family they might not have been thrilled that Tom's mother was dating a muggle. So I'm going to assume that if her family was still around that they disowned her bc they obviously didn't want anything to do with a halfbreed grandson. Apparently Tom's mother wasn't one of those people that was all into tha tpure blood mania if she fell in love with a muggle but of all the muggles she picked Tom Riddle which speaks volumes about her taste in men. I think the main thing to focus on of impotance is the fact that she was an heir to Slyhterin and and fell in love with a muggle.
I think it's more important that she's dead than an heir to Slytherin. ;)

Discordia
August 19th, 2004, 12:59 am
I think it's more important that she's dead than an heir to Slytherin. What does her beign dead have to do with anything?? Just one less prominent character to worry about!! You have to see outside the box. Tom's mother was most likely a Slytherin and she fell in love with a muggle and gave birth to the antichrist. That's what makes her important and there's definitely some importance to her.

FiliusFlitwick
August 19th, 2004, 1:10 am
i don't see how she could have been a good mother,she was the heir of slytherin for goodness sakes! i also believe that she may have died because only one descendant of Slytherin could be alive at one time because he can only have one true heir. This sounds a lot worse on the computer then it did in my head. :huh:

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 1:19 am
What does her beign dead have to do with anything?? Just one less prominent character to worry about!! You have to see outside the box. Tom's mother was most likely a Slytherin and she fell in love with a muggle and gave birth to the antichrist. That's what makes her important and there's definitely some importance to her.
To quote one of my favorite movies, "Dead things cannot affect the living." ;)

i don't see how she could have been a good mother,she was the heir of slytherin for goodness sakes! i also believe that she may have died because only one descendant of Slytherin could be alive at one time because he can only have one true heir. This sounds a lot worse on the computer then it did in my head. :huh:
I don't see how she could have been a good mother...being that she was dead and all. ;)

thrushcross
August 19th, 2004, 1:27 am
Does the fact that Voldemort is THE heir of Slytherin mean that there are no other living descendants of Slytherin himself? That he's absolutely the last one in line? The only possible candidate? Was his mother not the heir because she had other living relatives that were also related to Slytherin, or because she was "destined" to produce a son? It seems pretty clear to me that Voldemort is not about to reproduce, that he'll remain last in line...

I guess it seems more likely that an heir would have to be a direct descendent of the founder and one who shares his or her views and ideals. But the fact that the Slytherin line seems to have dead-ended in Voldemort tempts me into thinking that this has something to do with it, too.

So, what do you think about the term "heir"? Does the heir have to have inherited character traits as well as a bloodline in order to be the heir? Does he or she have to be the last living descendant? (If so, does the fact that Harry has no living relatives outside of the non-magical Dursleys suggest that he may be the heir of a different founder? ;) I never subscribed to any of those Harry-as-heir-of-Gryffindor theories, but I guess you never know...) If Voldemort's mother had had as crappy a life as her son ended up having, could she have been the heir instead?

JKR certainly emphasizes choice over destiny, but all of this prophecy business and talk of heirs complicates things a bit...

toryvic
August 19th, 2004, 1:27 am
Hang on a sec....

I seem to recall that Hermione in CoS told Harry that for all they knew Harry could quite easily be the heir of Slytherin. Is it not possible that Mummy V was simply a normal young witch, who had no knowledge of her ancestry?
i don't see how she could have been a good mother,she was the heir of slytherin for goodness sakes!Her being a Slytherin has no bearing on whether she's a good person or a good mother (not that the poor girl had much chance to 'mother' Tom) There is no black and white equation that says Gryffindor=good Slytherin=bad

Personally, whilst never being a Voldemort sympathiser, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for Tom Riddle, and this is how I see his life:
Orphaned in infancy, we can be fairly confident in the knowledge that he (like Harry) had no knowledge of his wizardiness until he got his Hogwarts letter at 11. (lets face it, if he had any wizarding family, it's unlikely that he'd have been living it up in an orphanage)
He knew nothing of his family except for the names of his father, grandfather and (possibly) his mother.
It was at Hogwarts that he probably traced back his family line to Salazar Slytherin, discovering who he was, and what this meant. Around this time I imagine that he could have found his father who explained his reasons for abandoning his son thusly (this may well have coincided with the Riddle murders)

A miserable orphan, with no knowledge of who he was until he uncovered the sad truth. THe boy Voldemort surely was to be pitied.
As for his mother...I see her as a young, vulnerable, possibly sickly woman, who was abandoned in her hour of need. Had she survived I'm confident that Voldie wouldn't have been so evil, heir of SLytherin or not!

sasha bear
August 19th, 2004, 1:35 am
One theory I read very early into my Harry Potter days was that Voldemorts mom died on purpose. I mean she married a muggle, gave him as normal a name as possible, left him in a muggle orphanage, etc. She doesn't sound like a pureblood maniac ya know? The theory said she died to try to save the innocent people who would be killed if the heir of slytherin (her son) opened the chamber. JKR also said we would learn something about Voldemorts birth. Possibly his mothers death and self sacrifice?

tantrix
August 19th, 2004, 1:36 am
I don't think that she was in Slytherin.. I don't think she was even in Hogwarts.. she ran away from home after she met the muggle father of Voldys

SaraLerrox1121
August 19th, 2004, 1:48 am
You know, I seriously don't know. I'm tempted to think she was actually a good person, and Voldemort was the result of...erm...not sure? Heh. It's just, a feeling that I think she MUST of been a good person. To me. Of course, this isn't anything that anyone should be ragging on me for, it's an opinion. Nor do I want to act like a freaking parent. SO, everyone think freely. I think she was an OK person. I've just started writing a fanfiction, Harry Potter and the Forbidden One. It features a traumatized Voldemort's Forbidden Granddaughter, sworn to secracy after her parents we're killed in America and she came to live with her friend in England. Where, I think you would suppose, she had gotten her Hogwarts letter. (featured in 5th year summer at the beginning.) No, shes not a mary-sue. If you want anything or information on it, you can just contact me. :tu:

Discordia
August 19th, 2004, 1:54 am
I think some of you are missing my point on Voldemort's mother. You would think that the mother of the most evil wizard in history would bare some importance. Voldemort's mother. A man may have many wives but only mother and even though Voldemort had no wives the fact remains that his mother was a descendant of Slytherin and she married a muggle. You have to learn love through being loved and that lesson is usually taught through one's mother which is something Voldemort never had. Rowlign said we would learn more about the circumstances of Riddle's birth in one of her interviews from March so therefore there's more about Riddle's mother we don't know about yet.

talulah
August 19th, 2004, 2:16 am
She died giving birth to LV, so I highly doubt she is alive and well. I suspect that she was in Slytherin since she was a decendent of his. As for what kind of mother she was, we don't know. She had no time to be a mother to LV. I'd like to think she would have been alright at the job. She got involved with a muggle. Then again, she may have been sorted into another house. Sirius was in Gryffindor and look at his family.

DayVirgo
August 19th, 2004, 2:17 am
I don't think that Voldemort's mother should be considered as an Heir for Slytherin. Nothing has been mentioned about her being able to open the Chamber of Secrets. I also don't think she was a parseltounge. Nothing in the books has suggested this either. I think that it's more possible that she was not too nice of a person. She sounds rather dishonest, seeing how she failed to mention to her husband that she was a witch from the beginning (not like that would have made a difference to him, it appears).

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 4:28 am
You know, I seriously don't know. I'm tempted to think she was actually a good person, and Voldemort was the result of...erm...not sure? Heh. It's just, a feeling that I think she MUST of been a good person. To me. Of course, this isn't anything that anyone should be ragging on me for, it's an opinion. Nor do I want to act like a freaking parent. SO, everyone think freely. I think she was an OK person. I've just started writing a fanfiction, Harry Potter and the Forbidden One. It features a traumatized Voldemort's Forbidden Granddaughter, sworn to secracy after her parents we're killed in America and she came to live with her friend in England. Where, I think you would suppose, she had gotten her Hogwarts letter. (featured in 5th year summer at the beginning.) No, shes not a mary-sue. If you want anything or information on it, you can just contact me. :tu:
Sounds a little "Star Wars" if you ask me...but of course, it all depends on what angle you take it from. ;)

Discordia
August 19th, 2004, 4:31 am
Well given the type of guy Tom's mother chose we know she apparently had a thing for bad boys. From what we know Tom's father was a rotten person before and after he met his mother.

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 4:34 am
I think some of you are missing my point on Voldemort's mother. You would think that the mother of the most evil wizard in history would bare some importance. Voldemort's mother. A man may have many wives but only mother and even though Voldemort had no wives the fact remains that his mother was a descendant of Slytherin and she married a muggle. You have to learn love through being loved and that lesson is usually taught through one's mother which is something Voldemort never had. Rowlign said we would learn more about the circumstances of Riddle's birth in one of her interviews from March so therefore there's more about Riddle's mother we don't know about yet.
OR perhaps it's something we don't know about Riddle. The circumstances surrounding his birth are more than just the mother. It could even be ther father. Or the Midwife/doctor (or whatever method of birthing they use).

The point is, there can't really be anything about the mother that's too physically important because she's dead now. And she's been dead for some time. Perhaps its the method of her death that we'll learn? Maybe Volders ripped himself out of her? Who knows. Point is, no matter how he was born, it really is nothing more than sparklers next to the major plot.

(Unless Rowling decides Harry's going to instill a sense of love in Volders and effectively kill him that way...which would be the worst sappy ending I've ever read after such a great buildup.;))

I don't think that Voldemort's mother should be considered as an Heir for Slytherin. Nothing has been mentioned about her being able to open the Chamber of Secrets. I also don't think she was a parseltounge. Nothing in the books has suggested this either. I think that it's more possible that she was not too nice of a person. She sounds rather dishonest, seeing how she failed to mention to her husband that she was a witch from the beginning (not like that would have made a difference to him, it appears).
Ok...I'll say this slow. Volders' father was a muggle. That means NO wizarding ties (for at least two generations, technically speaking). So, in all likelihood, Slytherin's blood was passed through the mother's side. Which would make her an heir...at some point. Nobody said she went to Hogwarts. Nobody said she couldn't speak parseltongue. Nobody said she was supposed to carry on Slytherin's legacy...there were many people through the generations who didn't open the chamber. So, do be more careful with such arguments please?

morgiana
August 19th, 2004, 5:05 am
Why so down on Tom's MOM? She died in childbirth giving life to Tom. This is close to the ultimate sacrifice. I understand why she might keep being a witch from Tom SR. She was probably afraid. It seems there is some prejudice against the wizard community by the muggles. When you fall in love something happens to you and mostly you want to keep anything from happening to that relationship. She may have thought it wouldn't matter after she was pregnant. BIG WRONG. She wasn't the big problem Tom Sr. was. He could have accepted his son and loved him. Had she lived Tom Jr. might have turned out better - then again we'll never know. Lot's of kids lose their moms and turn out ok. HP lost both his parents and had to go live with the Dursleys who could not be called loving on any level.

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 5:10 am
Why so down on Tom's MOM? She died in childbirth giving life to Tom. This is close to the ultimate sacrifice. I understand why she might keep being a witch from Tom SR. She was probably afraid. It seems there is some prejudice against the wizard community by the muggles. When you fall in love something happens to you and mostly you want to keep anything from happening to that relationship. She may have thought it wouldn't matter after she was pregnant. BIG WRONG. She wasn't the big problem Tom Sr. was. He could have accepted his son and loved him. Had she lived Tom Jr. might have turned out better - then again we'll never know. Lot's of kids lose their moms and turn out ok. HP lost both his parents and had to go live with the Dursleys who could not be called loving on any level.
If you're talking to me, I'm not "down on Tom's mom". I'm just trying to point out that, despite people's best efforts to make her sacrifice like Lily's, that they are quite wrong. ;)

caindo
August 19th, 2004, 5:23 am
How could she have sacrificed something? No one really plans on dying in childbirth. She didn't necessarily sacrifice herself for him to live. I think it's just wrong to compare her to Lily.

snakeshark
August 19th, 2004, 5:38 am
How could she have sacrificed something? No one really plans on dying in childbirth. She didn't necessarily sacrifice herself for him to live. I think it's just wrong to compare her to Lily.
At last...one of them understands. ;)

caindo
August 19th, 2004, 5:40 am
How would you like your mother, who gave their LIFE to protect you from something that would end up stealing your liberties, compared to someone who died in childbirth? It's an absurd thing to even discuss.

xelm0x
August 19th, 2004, 6:18 am
hmm... LV's mother obviously didn't sacrifice herself to save her son the way Harry's mother did.
This may be getting too specific but, bear with me...
Maybe she sacrificed herself in other ways? Not that this is what's up for debate. However, it occured to me that LV's mother was somehow distant from her own family. I mean, the muggle thing, imagine the stigma for a true Slytherin pure-blood happy family. Where there seems to be no other in the line, and no potential for there being another, there was a lot that may have dpended on his mother having a true pure-blood bouncing baby boy. But her family must have known that she was very reluctant to go along with their plans. In other words, they must have know that she was truly not "one of them" from the beginning. As for her house, maybe she wasn't in Slytherin. Which is possibly just another thing that tipped off her family as to her being different. Anyway, maybe her own family cursed her? If she were to give birth to a child not fitting their criteria, she would die. And where LV's accounts are unreliable, maybe his father ran off in some hopes of protecting his family. Like they wouldn't know the kid was a half-blood... but of course LV would have looked at his father's abandoning him as something negative; there couldn't possibly be an explanation. Anyway, that's one way of looking at how she could have possibly been making a sacrifice. But, like I said, it's probably getting too specific.
And where love is such a strong factor for Harry, maybe it wouldn't have been possible for LV to become as strong as he is w/o it. Even if he ultimately became resenful and bitter.

caindo
August 19th, 2004, 6:23 am
hmm... LV's mother obviously didn't sacrifice herself to save her son the way Harry's mother did.
This may be getting too specific but, bear with me...
Maybe she sacrificed herself in other ways? Not that this is what's up for debate. However, it occured to me that LV's mother was somehow distant from her own family. I mean, the muggle thing, imagine the stigma for a true Slytherin pure-blood happy family. Where there seems to be no other in the line, and no potential for there being another, there was a lot that may have dpended on his mother having a true pure-blood bouncing baby boy. But her family must have known that she was very reluctant to go along with their plans. In other words, they must have know that she was truly not "one of them" from the beginning. As for her house, maybe she wasn't in Slytherin. Which is possibly just another thing that tipped of her family as to her being different. Anyway, maybe her own family cursed her? If she were to give birth to a child not fitting their criteria, she would die. And where LV's accounts are unreliable, maybe his father ran off in some hopes of protecting his family. Like they wouldn't know the kid was a half-blood... but of course LV would have looked at his father's abandoning him as something negative; there couldn't possibly be an explanation. Anyway, that's one way of looking at how she could have possibly been making a sacrifice. But, like I said, it's probably getting too specific.
And where love is such a strong factor for Harry, maybe it wouldn't have been possible for LV to become as strong as he is w/o it. Even if he ultimately became resenful and bitter.
Good point. I shall take it into consideration.

winter snow
August 19th, 2004, 6:52 am
Okay, here's my take. I don't think Tom's mother was the heir to Slytherin. I think just Tom was. Who says Tom's mother would have been able to open the chamber? For that matter, we don't know that she would want to. Tom's mother doesn't have to have been a bad person just because she gave birth to him. The poor woman was afraid to tell the muggle she married that she was a witch, so that makes her bad? Oh please. It seems to me that because she was Tom Riddle's mother, that people think it's her fault he became LV. I propose that she is more important than many of you want to give her credit for. LV became what he is, because he never experienced love. Rejected by his father, mother died in childbirth, raised in an orphanage. We can only assume he had a horrible chilhood because he again, didn't experience love. It could have been a muggle orphanage where they beat him when he displayed magical ability. We'll find out in a future book.
I'm just saying we shouldn't disregard Tom's mother. I think the circumstances of Tom's birth will be important to the plot, not in a major way, but in a subplot way. Something that will provide background information and perhaps help explain Tom's hatred better.
As for comparing Lily to Tom's mother, we don't have enough information to make that judgement. After we are filled in on the details of Tom's birth, we'll be able to make a more informed decision in that matter. For now though, we just don't have all the little details.
Yes, it's stated that he hated his mother for sticking him with "his muggle father's name". I think maybe she was hoping that naming him after Tom Sr., that Tom Sr. would take care of him. Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference what she named him, he may still have become LV. We'll have to wait. I just think we should hear her story before people start ripping her to shreds. :)

caindo
August 19th, 2004, 6:56 am
Well had she named him anything different, he'd have a heck of a time trying to come up w/ a new intimidating name! LOL

winter snow
August 19th, 2004, 7:19 am
Well had she named him anything different, he'd have a heck of a time trying to come up w/ a new intimidating name! LOL

Go one! LOL

thrushcross
August 19th, 2004, 8:40 am
How would you like your mother, who gave their LIFE to protect you from something that would end up stealing your liberties, compared to someone who died in childbirth? It's an absurd thing to even discuss.

I don't think it's absurd. In fact, I think it's another strong point on the list of uncanny similarities between Harry and Voldemort.

Obviously Lily's act was more righteous, and Voldemort's mother's death wasn't really an act at all, but the fact remains that both Harry and Voldemort both lost their mothers as infants. That simple fact is enough to beg some comparison of the events, especially in light of the other similarities that the two share.

Without undermining any of Lily's unquestionable greatness (and playing the devil's advocate a bit here), I think it's fair to say that many mothers in her situation would have done anything to save the life of their son... giving her life for Harry's may have been less of a "choice" and more of an instinctual response. What else could she have done in that situation? Stand aside? No loving mother would.

Furthermore, as many people have said, we don't know enough about Voldemort's mother to guess what kind of person she was or how much she loved her unborn son. She didn't have any choice in her death... but to assume that her love was less potent than the love of a mother who got to "choose" to die for her son makes a judgment call about her that we simply don't have enough information to make. Plus it essentially disregards the pain of anyone who has lost a mother or a wife in childbirth.

Obviously the focus is on a Harry/Voldemort comparison here, not on a Lily/Voldemort's mother one, but I think the loss of a mother at such a young age, and the resonances of such a loss, do merit thoughtful discussion. JKR gave us this parallel for a reason.

koetje
August 19th, 2004, 11:18 am
Why did she call him tom riddle if her husbant left her

Dedalus Diggle
August 19th, 2004, 12:19 pm
Well had she named him anything different, he'd have a heck of a time trying to come up w/ a new intimidating name! LOL
Let's see, if she hadn't biven him a name, then he would probably be listed as 'Baby Boy Doe' - so his dark lord name would be Abbey Dooby: yeah, that'll scare people to death.

koetje
August 19th, 2004, 12:24 pm
or pumpkin pie

atherella
August 19th, 2004, 5:36 pm
Took me a few minutes to figure out that yesterday's thread got merged with another, and now we have this 5 pager. I was really shocked how far this thread had gone in one day (which I now know it didn't, but that's beside the point).

I want to point out one thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I forget who, but someone mentioned that they thought James travelled the world, and that's where he got his invisibility cloak. JKR said in an interview that it was a family heirloom, so that throws that theory. At least the part of him getting the cloak on travels.

From an October 2000, AOL chat:
Where did James get his Invisibility Cloak?

JKR - That was inherited from his own father -- a family heirloom!

As for comparing Lily's sacrafice and LV's mother dying in childbirth, I have to go with the majority and say the two aren't comparable at all. At the very least, we don't have enough information about LV's mother to make an educated guess. Think of it like this.... people get pregnant all the time. We have young mothers who leave their newborn babies in dumpsters. We have mothers who don't want to keep their children. (And, I will say that in a majority of cases, mothers who give up their babies for adoption ARE making a major sacrafice stemming from love - but not always). Point is, it is simple to get pregnant. Once you are pregnant, you have 2 choices... you have the baby, or you do not. Simply having a baby - giving birth - does NOT make you a loving mother. I'm on the side here that LV's mother doesn't necessarily have to have been a bad woman, chances are she wasn't. We simply don't know, and comparing her dying in childbirth, to Lily PURPOSELY dying to protect her child is a MAJOR difference. Sure, we don't know or understand exactly what Lily did, but whatever it was, it was powerful. I have no reason to doubt that, as it has been repeated in every book, and I doubt JKR would simply trivialize it at this point. I just don't think the two women should, or can be compared, based upon the facts that we have at this point in time. Maybe once we learn more about the circumstances surrounding LV's birth (which per JKR, we WILL get), we will be in a better position to make connections, but at this point, there is just no connection to be made, at least in MHO.

jellyjames
August 19th, 2004, 5:46 pm
You know, all this time we have been shown how some pure bloods are horribly prejudiced against Muggle borns and all of the Muggle population. But in Voldy's mum, we saw how Muggles are being prejudiced against magical people. I guess it works both ways. Fear of the unknown breeds prejudice which breeds cruelty, no matter who you are.

RemusLupinFan
August 19th, 2004, 6:49 pm
I agree with atherella that we cannot compare Voldemort's mother's dying in childbirth to Lily's purposefull sacrifice for her son. I agree we'll never really know what kind of mother she would have been, or if she would have given Tom up for adoption.

We do at least know that Voldemort's mother was descended from Salazar Slytherin, and that she married Tom Riddle Sr., who was a Muggle and lived in Little Hangleton. I agree that Voldemort's mother was probably a pureblood due to her direct descent from Slytherin, and I also think she must not have been opposed to the idea of muggles and wizards intermarrying. I would also tend to think that she was shunned by her pureblood family, much the same way that Tonks' mother Andromeda was disowned/disgraced from the Black family after she married Ted Tonks. Given this, I wonder if Voldemort's mother named him Tom Riddle after his muggle father as a "one-up" on her family for disowning her. It seems like the ultimate act of defiance for a pureblood mother of Slytherin descent to name her wizard child after his muggle father. But then again, we'll never know.

Voldemort's hate for muggle's comes from the fact that his muggle father rejected himI agree this is definitely where Voldemort's disdain and contempt for muggles must have come from. For his own father to have given him up to an orphanage after his mother's death made him very bitter I'm sure. Then, once his belief that muggles were scum was established and secured, Riddle likely turned his hatred on his mother for marrying one and for naming him after one. But I agree there is probably much more to the story of Voldemort's origins than we'll ever know.

winter snow
August 19th, 2004, 7:30 pm
Consider this: Tom Riddle Jr. was born 1927. Also consider the fact that she delivered this baby in a muggle hospital in 1927. Think about this a little. Many women died back then from complications of childbirth. A muggle hospital has no witches or wizards working there. Suppose they couldn't stop the bleeding; or the afterbirth came out first, and she started closing up on the babies throat. (I don't want to go into too much detail, children come to this site). Back then, a woman could die. Doctors couldn't always save the mothers, but they would try to save the babies. If this happened, it wouldn't matter if she was a witch or not. Just because they live longer, it doesn't mean they're invincible. So yes, a witch and/or wizard can die if they in the hands of muggle medicine.

You know, all this time we have been shown how some pure bloods are horribly prejudiced against Muggle borns and all of the Muggle population. But in Voldy's mum, we saw how Muggles are being prejudiced against magical people. I guess it works both ways. Fear of the unknown breeds prejudice which breeds cruelty, no matter who you are.

Most excellent point! I couldn't agree more!

I agree with atherella that we cannot compare Voldemort's mother's dying in childbirth to Lily's purposefull sacrifice for her son. I agree we'll never really know what kind of mother she would have been, or if she would have given Tom up for adoption.

We do at least know that Voldemort's mother was descended from Salazar Slytherin, and that she married Tom Riddle Sr., who was a Muggle and lived in Little Hangleton. I agree that Voldemort's mother was probably a pureblood due to her direct descent from Slytherin, and I also think she must not have been opposed to the idea of muggles and wizards intermarrying. I would also tend to think that she was shunned by her pureblood family, much the same way that Tonks' mother Andromeda was disowned/disgraced from the Black family after she married Ted Tonks. Given this, I wonder if Voldemort's mother named him Tom Riddle after his muggle father as a "one-up" on her family for disowning her. It seems like the ultimate act of defiance for a pureblood mother of Slytherin descent to name her wizard child after his muggle father. But then again, we'll never know.

I agree this is definitely where Voldemort's disdain and contempt for muggles must have come from. For his own father to have given him up to an orphanage after his mother's death made him very bitter I'm sure. Then, once his belief that muggles were scum was established and secured, Riddle likely turned his hatred on his mother for marrying one and for naming him after one. But I agree there is probably much more to the story of Voldemort's origins than we'll ever know.

Jo said that we'll find out more about Tom's birth in the next book. We'll find out if any of theories are true!

Dedalus Diggle
August 19th, 2004, 7:52 pm
I'm holding out for the theory that almost everything we have been told - which came through Voldy, who had very questionable sources at best anyway - is untrue, except possibly as to the identity of the involved parties.

Jaredd
August 19th, 2004, 8:27 pm
Why did she call him tom riddle if her husbant left her

Um, just one of many plausible theories, but perhaps she still loved Tom's father despite the fact that he was an insufferable git who left her?

hufflepina
August 20th, 2004, 12:02 am
arabella figg voldy mothers is quite strange

Discordia
August 29th, 2004, 5:37 pm
I'm holding out for the theory that almost everything we have been told - which came through Voldy, who had very questionable sources at best anyway - is untrue, except possibly as to the identity of the involved parties.

I get the feeling that his version of the events is skewed as wel bc Rowling did say in her March itnerview that we would learn more about the circumstances of his birth later on. He can only know so much about his mother given that she died giving birth to him. He seems to know little about his parents himself so I don't think it could be the whole truth.

Just becasue someone is dead doesn't mean they're not important. Lily and James are dead but they're still important and crucial characters becasue of their backround. Why wouldn't the mother of Voldemort be important? She may be dead but there's definitely more to her.

You know, all this time we have been shown how some pure bloods are horribly prejudiced against Muggle borns and all of the Muggle population. But in Voldy's mum, we saw how Muggles are being prejudiced against magical people. I guess it works both ways. Fear of the unknown breeds prejudice which breeds cruelty, no matter who you are.

Yeah, I agree. Look at Petunia. She saw her sister as a freak while the magical world tends to reagrd muggles as being lower than themselves becasue they posess no magical ability. But People are afraid of what they don't understand sometimes and I think that plays a part also.

Denyse
August 29th, 2004, 7:01 pm
Ok, I have a question. Could someone check their copy and see if it says Tom's mother died after childbirth or during. I don't have my books here and am curious as to the wording. The answer to that will help me form my theory more but I have often wondered if his mother is alive OR was killed after childbirth, as opposed to dying during birth. I am curious as to why she didn't deliver at St. Mungos, as well. It makes me wonder if Tom's dad was more involved than we know. Perhaps he had her killed and then took Tom, in an attempt to raise him muggle. But if Tom showed any signs of magic as a baby, maybe he dumped him at the orphanage. Tom would have no memory of stuff happening at such a young age.

Eh. I'm probably way off. I hate trying to put the puzzle together without all the pieces.

Tane
September 14th, 2004, 9:29 pm
I think Voldemorts mother put a curse on her baby, a curse to revenge his father and all muggles for leaving her to die on her own and abandoning her child.

Lily used old magic to protect Harry, perhaps Voldemorts mother used old magic to get revenge as both Harry and Voldemort's lives are similar and yet there paths different, parallel but opposite.

Barbara Kennedy
September 14th, 2004, 9:49 pm
I think Voldemorts mother put a curse on her baby, a curse to revenge his father and all muggles for leaving her to die on her own and abandoning her child.

Lily used old magic to protect Harry, perhaps Voldemorts mother used old magic to get revenge as both Harry and Voldemort's lives are similar and yet there paths different, parallel but opposite.

Why would she curse her own child?

theboyhoolivd
September 14th, 2004, 9:56 pm
I think Voldemorts mother put a curse on her baby, a curse to revenge his father and all muggles for leaving her to die on her own and abandoning her child.

Lily used old magic to protect Harry, perhaps Voldemorts mother used old magic to get revenge as both Harry and Voldemort's lives are similar and yet there paths different, parallel but opposite.

:huh: Was that supposed to be a joke? If it was, it wasn't funny. Would Voldy's father care? For some reason I don't think so (the only thing he ever cared about was his life, and he lost that). And another thing, why would Voldy's mum put a curse on the very same child she was so upset about abandoning?!

I like your wording on the last part "...both Harry and Voldemort's lives..." etc. You speak the truth, their lives are similar. I just have a hard time believing that they were both "spelled" as babies.

Tane
September 15th, 2004, 7:40 am
:huh: Was that supposed to be a joke? If it was, it wasn't funny. Would Voldy's father care? For some reason I don't think so (the only thing he ever cared about was his life, and he lost that). And another thing, why would Voldy's mum put a curse on the very same child she was so upset about abandoning?!

I like your wording on the last part "...both Harry and Voldemort's lives..." etc. You speak the truth, their lives are similar. I just have a hard time believing that they were both "spelled" as babies.Why would she curse her own child? No, no joke intended I was being serious, JKR stated your not born evil, your made that way, perhaps made that way by a curse. It is not an evil curse that Voldemort would suffer, one that would allow him to revenge all that abandoned him at birth. Maybe he took his gift of power too far though, you know the ability to use everything Slytherin had because Voldemorts goals have moved away from those of Salazar. JKR also mentioned that there was something else surrounding Tom's birth, something missing out of that story line.

In a way his mother could have placed a curse on her child hoping that he would rule from it in the end.

The Slytherin way is to gain what they want at any cost to.

theboyhoolivd
September 15th, 2004, 11:02 pm
Why would JKR make Voldy's mum put a curse on him? That is the only part of your theory that I don't get. If he does have a "gift of power" then it would be just one more barrier for Harry to overcome. Voldy would have been able to touch Harry if he had a "revenge power", but he can't. Unless you're implying that Voldy's power was weaker than the power Lily bestowed on Harry, but then there is the question: why would Voldy's mum put a weak curse on him? Tane, I'm sorry, but I don't see how it could work out.

Tane
September 16th, 2004, 10:25 am
Why would JKR make Voldy's mum put a curse on him? That is the only part of your theory that I don't get. If he does have a "gift of power" then it would be just one more barrier for Harry to overcome. Voldy would have been able to touch Harry if he had a "revenge power", but he can't. Unless you're implying that Voldy's power was weaker than the power Lily bestowed on Harry, but then there is the question: why would Voldy's mum put a weak curse on him? Tane, I'm sorry, but I don't see how it could work out.Why would she not, I mean her husband abandoned her and Tom, so why would she not give her son a chance to get back at muggles and mudbloods. Tom's father left him and also his mother, he left his mother to die and cursed her for being a witch by the looks of things so why would Tom's mother not give her son something to get back at his father at least. I mean how did Tom know where to find the chamber of secrets, something must have guided him there. Maybe curse is wrong word to use, how about a charm placed upon her child to aid him and a curse on her husband or all muggles, one that through her child would be released onto this wizard world.

Revenge is weaker than love, love was the power that governed the spell that Lily cast on Harry, and revenge was probably on Tom's mothers mind if she cast a spell on her child.

Face it Lily died to save her child and well I bet Tom's mother died for a very similar reason, perhaps it was not a natural death from child birth, JKR did say that there was something we still all needed to know about Tom's birth so what could it be I wonder if it is not some spell cast upon her own child.

Rather than put down a theory with I just cant buy that, suggest another reason as to what we could be missing from the birth of Tom and his mother, what information is JKR keeping from us, she did they there was something else important about his birth, what was it then?

All I will say is what JKR said, where not born evil where made that way.

willi
September 16th, 2004, 10:37 am
SUDDEN CRAZY THEORY ALERT!!!

I suddenly realised that it is unlikely that really dead. Then I started thinking maybe none of her story is true.

Did she die in childbirth?
As the heir of Slytherina dn a pureblood wizard, I find it inlikely that a she could die in childbrth. She sould be made of stronger stuff than that

What do you mean?

I am an amateur athlete and have participated in several triathalons.

I am also a mother and a full time worker outside the home.

AND I almost died in childbirth.

It took something like 6 blood transfusions to save my life.

PLEASE don't ever imagine that it is only a matter of being "stronger stuff" to survive a childbirth emergency.

Unless you have been there or worked in the field you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

Tane
September 16th, 2004, 10:43 am
What do you mean?

I am an amateur athlete and have participated in several triathalons.

I am also a mother and a full time worker outside the home.

AND I almost died in childbirth.

It took something like 6 blood transfusions to save my life.

PLEASE don't ever imagine that it is only a matter of being "stronger stuff" to survive a childbirth emergency.

Unless you have been there or worked in the field you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.I think a more better way of saying this is that did she die of child birth or by having to make the same choose in saving her son or sacrificed her life in the name of revenging her husband and all muggles and mudbloods in the wizard world, this is from a pure fantasy Harry Potter world and not conjecture of the real one as magic plays a part and it does strike me odd that with all that magic out there she died from child birth.

willi
September 16th, 2004, 11:01 am
I had no idea from the books that she died in childbirth.

I got the impression that she died in Tom's infancy.

Whatever the reason - personal strength is no way of preventing death if it is going to happen to you. Look at James and Lily - young and strong - yet even the love of a child and the incredible urge to protect him was not enough to prevent their deaths.

Sorry - it just ticked me off to read that someone thinks that it is a matter of inner strength to try not to die.

I can tell you - after being rescucitated after being dead for 4 minutes - it is NOT a matter of choice!

arshia
September 16th, 2004, 11:17 am
your ideas are WILD ! :huh:

Tane
September 16th, 2004, 11:27 am
I had no idea from the books that she died in childbirth.

I got the impression that she died in Tom's infancy.

Whatever the reason - personal strength is no way of preventing death if it is going to happen to you. Look at James and Lily - young and strong - yet even the love of a child and the incredible urge to protect him was not enough to prevent their deaths.

Sorry - it just ticked me off to read that someone thinks that it is a matter of inner strength to try not to die.

I can tell you - after being rescucitated after being dead for 4 minutes - it is NOT a matter of choice!Everything can be governed by the choices we make, to take a left turn instead of a right one and end up in trouble, to have a child or not, all choices lead to consequences whether good, bad or just right, all our actions result in something happening.

Anyway back to Harry Potter.

The exact day or time Tom's mother die or the reason as to why she did is still uncertain but what is for sure is that Tom's father left before Tom left the hospital and even if Tom's mother did not die she could have given her son a magical gift or a chance to get back at the muggles, especially his father for abandoning him. I just don't know what JKR has install for us all but what she has stated is that there is something we need to know about the birth, something we have not yet been told about.

theboyhoolivd
September 16th, 2004, 11:19 pm
Everything can be governed by the choices we make, to take a left turn instead of a right one and end up in trouble, to have a child or not, all choices lead to consequences whether good, bad or just right, all our actions result in something happening.

Anyway back to Harry Potter.

The exact day or time Tom's mother die or the reason as to why she did is still uncertain but what is for sure is that Tom's father left before Tom left the hospital and even if Tom's mother did not die she could have given her son a magical gift or a chance to get back at the muggles, especially his father for abandoning him. I just don't know what JKR has install for us all but what she has stated is that there is something we need to know about the birth, something we have not yet been told about.

Umm, was I the only one who actually read the books thoroughly?? It clearly states, (in fact Voldy himself says it) in the fourth book, that Voldy's mum died during childbirth. This is the reason that he was sent to live in the orphanage.

This is just one of the many points that shows Voldy was not cursed as a baby.

LadyofthePensieve
September 17th, 2004, 7:49 am
I simply want to know the last name of Toms magical family. What was Marvolos surname? Maybe JKR didnt tell us already, because its a huge clue for the further background story? Is anybody of you as curious as am I to find out his surname?

The Gurg
September 17th, 2004, 11:39 am
Do we definately know that it was through Voldimorts mothers side that made him Slytherins heir. All we know is that he is and that his mother was a witch and father, muggle. But were they? Has anyone other than Voldemort ever said told us that pece of information? Because he may have been bought up to believe that that is what his parents were, but were really muggles/squibs.

atherella
September 17th, 2004, 1:23 pm
Do we definately know that it was through Voldimorts mothers side that made him Slytherins heir. All we know is that he is and that his mother was a witch and father, muggle. But were they? Has anyone other than Voldemort ever said told us that pece of information? Because he may have been bought up to believe that that is what his parents were, but were really muggles/squibs.

I don't believe anyone other than Tom told us this outright. But, when DD is explaining the prophecy to Harry at the end of OotP, when Harry asks if he chose the wrong boy (rather says he may have chosen the wrong boy), DD explains that he chose the boy who he thought would post the most threat to him - the half-blood like LV himself was. That doesn't tell us outright that LV told the truth, but it doesn't disprove it either and seems to back it up.

Furienna
September 17th, 2004, 1:50 pm
I simply want to know the last name of Toms magical family. What was Marvolos surname? Maybe JKR didnt tell us already, because its a huge clue for the further background story? Is anybody of you as curious as am I to find out his surname?
You bet ya I am. Actually, there is a theory floating around in the thread Grindelwald (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=4170), that Grindewald, the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore in 1945 according to the chocolate frog cards, might be a Marvolo Grindewald and Voldemort's maternal grandfather. But that's just a theory. We don't know Voldemort's mother's first name either.

Do we definately know that it was through Voldimorts mothers side that made him Slytherins heir. All we know is that he is and that his mother was a witch and father, muggle. But were they? Has anyone other than Voldemort ever said told us that pece of information? Because he may have been bought up to believe that that is what his parents were, but were really muggles/squibs.
I don't have the quote, but Tom Riddle definately tells Harry that it's through his mother he's got Slytherin's blood in the chamber of secrets in COS

Helena Epans
September 24th, 2004, 12:31 am
Personaly I think that she is dead, JKR said she was going to explain Tom's birth a little or something like that on her website to explain something about Tom.

Jenn_
September 24th, 2004, 9:44 am
The question I have is, Voldermort's mother would have been an heir of Slytherin before her death. Tom seems in some way affected by being the heir himself. So what was his mother doing marrying a muggle??

Maybe his mother was rebeling against somebody or something? Perhaps some past Tom family angst is to come....

Or perhaps being the Heir of Slytherin is like a....recessive gene. :rotfl:

willi
October 5th, 2004, 6:40 am
The question I have is, Voldermort's mother would have been an heir of Slytherin before her death. Tom seems in some way affected by being the heir himself. So what was his mother doing marrying a muggle??

Maybe his mother was rebeling against somebody or something? Perhaps some past Tom family angst is to come....

Or perhaps being the Heir of Slytherin is like a....recessive gene. :rotfl:

I believe it may have something to do with the laws of royalty./nobility which still dictate that a female child cannot be considered an "heir" in the strictest sense. Of course women can become Queen, but that is only in the absence of no male siblings and if she has children, no matter how many girls she has, if she has one boy, HE becomes the rightful heir.

deathfairy87
October 6th, 2004, 2:15 am
Geeze, I never even gave Voldie's mom a 2nd thought! I doubt she's Figg, though.

Moon_Star
March 24th, 2005, 1:15 am
hmm...I dont think she Figg. But I dont know something about it doesnt make sense. I didnt think that magical woman would die in childbirth. I could be wrong though who knows. hopefully this will be answered in the next book.

kingwidgit
March 24th, 2005, 1:43 am
Tom Marvolo Riddle aka Lord Voldemort---cannot possible be the son of Figg, here's why...Cos, The Very Secret Diary, pg. 244,
"My mother died just after I was born, sir. They told me at the orphanage she lived just long enough to name me --- Tom after my father, Marvolo after my grandfather."

harry_be_mine
March 24th, 2005, 2:32 am
I never thought much about Voldemort's mother. But I also suspect that she may have been good. And now that you mention it, maybe is still alive. If Hagrid scoffed at the idea of Lily and James being killed in a car crash, wouldn't it be the same for childbirth. She was a witch, so wouldn't she have performed some magic so that the birth could have been without much complication? Or, like some are consipiring, she was taken out....but why???

kingwidgit
March 24th, 2005, 3:14 am
I never thought much about Voldemort's mother. But I also suspect that she may have been good. And now that you mention it, maybe is still alive. If Hagrid scoffed at the idea of Lily and James being killed in a car crash, wouldn't it be the same for childbirth. She was a witch, so wouldn't she have performed some magic so that the birth could have been without much complication? Or, like some are consipiring, she was taken out....but why???If Tom's mother wasn't dead, then why did he grow up in a muggle orphanage?

sy8
June 8th, 2005, 11:47 pm
I like this theory that Voldemort's mother is alive. I have comments to make: I don't think Figgy is his mom cuz she is a squib and his mom is a witch and secondly, maybe she didn't get support from her wizarding family cuz she married a muggle....remember Sirius telling HP that people were blasted off the family tree for marrying non wizards/ pure-bloods? her situation could have been the same and that is why she couldn't turn to her family for support. I do love the idea of his mom being good though, maybe she loved him the wat lily loved HP and gave him away to protect him, only Voldemort thinks the opposite or doesnt realize thats what keeps him going. Im thinking of OOTP when Dumbledore tells Voldemort when there is something worse than death...i think this is not knowing the love of someone, specially a parent.

MatthewMazer
June 27th, 2005, 7:43 pm
If Voldemort's mom were alive still, wouldn't he resent her for "mating" with a muggle?

BlackChidori
June 28th, 2005, 3:51 am
If Voldemort's mom were alive still, wouldn't he resent her for "mating" with a muggle?

lol mating...

This is a bit off topic, and I haven't posted in a few long months, but speaking of The Dark Lord's mother, WHAT IS HER NAME?!!

Maiden name I mean.

She might have a name we are familiar with, as she was the last of one of the oldest purblood families (Slytherin's line), though her surname may not have necessarily been Slytherin (and I seriously doubt it was).

Maybe she was somehow related to a Zabini? And thats why we're going to be seeing more of Blaise in the next two books? Thinking....

TonyJoe
June 28th, 2005, 4:04 am
Um...I just dont see Voldemort's mom being alive. And i definitley dont beleive that she is Arabella Figg. Remember Figg doesnt have any magic, she says so herself, shes a squib if there ever was one. Voldemort's mom was a witch. Maybe she's lying? If she is why would she lie? Why would she fake her death and put her child in an orphanage. Figgy seems like the maternal type, she wouldnt give away a kid that easy in my opinion.

Not to mention the age thing. How old is Mrs. Figg? She doesnt have magic, so she doesnt get that longer life span. Shes got to be in her sixties maybe seventies, the usual age for crazy cat ladies. Voldemort is in his late sixties. It just doesnt seem biologically possible.

synyan
July 7th, 2005, 4:11 am
the plot will get even more interesting if voldemort's mother is alive. but somehow i prefer her dead. it makes more sense for voldemort to kill his mother as well because voldemort would surely kill his mom because of his difficult childhood.

claret101
July 11th, 2005, 4:35 pm
I had a few thoughts about this, which I posted in a different thread (because I searched for Voldemort and mother in titles only and DIDN'T find this thread!?):

What house do you think Voldemort's mother was in? (Do we have a name for her?) Because she seems a bit strange.

If Voldemort is Slytherin's heir, then his mother was a direct descendant of Slytherin, that has to be true. So that would lead us to think she was in Slytherin, right? But would a Slytherin fall in love with a Muggle? Does this show that she was an enlightened Slytherin? Does it mean not all Slytherins are as bad as we think?

Or could she have been in a different house? Would Salazar's direct descendent be in a different house?

Either way, clearly she didn't share the pureblood prejudice of Slytherin himself, so at some point in the family line between him and her, someone had a pretty major break from the traditional family values. It could have been her, it could have been someone before her. We don't know she's pureblood, do we?

So how does Voldemort feel about her? He's only mentioned her once I think, but he mentioned hating his father, but didn't mention his mother. Surely with his pureblood stuff, he should hate her for loving a Muggle? For being a blood traitor and making him a half blood?

I'm just very confused about her. You'd have expected Slytherin's descendants to all be pretty into the pureblood thing, but she fell in love with a Muggle, had his child and, even after he abandoned her, she named the child after him.

And does anyone else wonder about Sirius comment about purebloods being related? If she was pureblood, then I think we need a family tree, quick. I'm wondering if Voldemort is Ron's second cousin or something? It could be true for all we know. Though if the purebloods are so interrelated, could Voldemort really be the sole descendant of Slytherin? Or is he just one of the descendants, but he's special and marked as his heir, hence Parselmouth and everything?

Maybe if we're finding out more about Harry's parents in HBP, we'll find out more about Voldemort's mother.

Mae
July 11th, 2005, 4:47 pm
i doubt mrs. riddle is figg, but im quite open-minded about her still being alive...although i dont get how that will help advance the plot in any way...maybe shell tell voldie that his father didnt leave them because she was a witch after all...maybe shell tell him the real reason why he left was because SHE made him leave (or something) and voldie will be all embarrassed cuz all along his motivation for his pureblood supremacy agenda was cuz his dad left them...and turns out he didnt...

The LionHeart
July 11th, 2005, 7:25 pm
Except that Voldemort is the "last remaining descendent of Salazar Slytherin." Meaning his mother is indeed dead. I would like to know what her name is, though. Something fishy going on with a lot of people's families, actually. We also don't know Sirius's parent's names or Lupin's, or Snape's, or if any of the teachers have families.

Queen_Beruth
July 11th, 2005, 7:34 pm
She may not have attended Hogwarts at all.

I suspect that she was - if not exactly estranged from the magical world - then not living in close proximity to it. Vold speaks of his mother as a villager at Little Hangleton. She seems to have given birth either at home or in a Muggle institution (else why would Tom be abandoned to the Muggle world?).

Hoping for more info on this one.