The Latter-day Saint Thread v. 8.0 [Archive] - Page 3

Rosie Cotton

April 3rd, 2006, 5:19 am

Jenni_Radcliffe, you can read the talks when they come out, and if you don't want to wait, I can at least supply you with my notes from General Young Women's. :) I took pretty good notes, because my seminary teacher accepted them as make-up work for some of when I took my bro to the MTC and missed five days.

Today, in GC, I personally liked Dallin H. Oaks' address. It was very meaningful to me because of some things that have been happening to me in my life, and it felt like the Holy Ghost had inspired it particularly for my own good.

Still writing to my brother every week at the MTC. Russia's a 12-week-MTC-stay-mission, so he's still in that wild circus.

It's been awhile since I've been online. Anyways, took more notes to make up seminary. The rule is 1 hour of a General Broadcast counts as 1 day of seminary made up. So each session of General Conference is 2 days, except for YW General was only one day. You can also make up days by reading talks from passed General Conference and proving that you read them: highlighting them, writing a blurb, taking some notes, something like that.

So, all in all from Conferences and reading talks, I've made up five days of seminary...I think I'll read a couple of talks tonight to make up any lates that I don't know about.

Oh, we can also make up tons of seminary by writing big essays on scriptoral or doctrinal things, and we can make up one day of seminary by quoting the text, reference, doctrinal meaning, context and personal application of five scripture masteries.

Yeah, my seminary teacher's pretty lenient.

And there's audio/video recordings:

There're in other languages on lds.org too.

Morgoth

April 3rd, 2006, 9:15 am

Rosie,

I've removed your links. Some of the HTML is not allowed on CoS so it caused some conflict. Best to only link the site your information was from or Owl it to those interested.

Thanks.

Seshet

April 4th, 2006, 12:29 am

It's that time again, GC debriefing! My personal favorite: Beware the maka take. My prediction: Could it be the next 6 (or 9) B's? Will there be quilt patterns and relief society craft projects on this theme? Watch and for the amazing Maka Take of Raffia, Craft Paint, and Craft Wood! Oooooooh....

GryffindorSeeker

April 5th, 2006, 2:36 am

Shiny.... :p

Seminary... don't get me started... :no:

This years teacher... it's not good. Suffice it to say that instead of covering the material, using the teachers manual or Book of Mormon itself, he goes on random tangents about when he was a teenager, and about random people we've never heard of before and never will. And trust me, none of those people were ever in the Book of Mormon.

Pegasus

April 5th, 2006, 4:10 am

What an amazing weekend. I can never remember who gave which talk, but I found the one about the Book of Mormon and books from "other sheep" particularly captivating. I don't recall any Conference talks speaking this specifically about it, or how he hopes they won't be rejected in the "A Bible? We have a Bible" fashion.
A week and a half until Easter. I hope I can sing properly by then. I got my first bloody nose last night when my daughter crashed into it, and besides being extremely tender today and making me a bit lightheaded, I found it also affects my voice--especially the power. I always knew nasal cavities were important--I just never related singing to crushed noses before. My husband doesn't think it's broken. I hope he's right.

AchelRay

April 6th, 2006, 3:34 am

In some ways that's probably an advantage; you're forced to pay attention. I always have trouble balancing whether it's more important for the kids to at least be in the room or for me to actually be able to hear. (That's coming from a mother's point of view, of course.)

Really, I fell back to sleep during the first session on Sunday because I was so tired(daylight savings time threw me off so badly). I did get to hear all og the other sessions though. This time I didn't have a clear favorite but I did like the one about the octopus traps (sorry I don't think I could spell it the right way).

On Friday night there was a performance by some LDS singers at Cottonwood high school. I was able to perform in a Young Women's choir from around the state. There were a couple girls from other places like Idaho and Oregon but it was amazing. I wasn't on the risers so I got to "see" more. (I was on the ground carrying flags and holding candles in the aisle ways.) I was so happy I was able to have the experience.

kingbobs

April 6th, 2006, 4:50 am

Pegasus

April 6th, 2006, 8:43 pm

Hi everybody. I have a few questions about the LDS church that I've never really understood. I apologize if these questions have already been addressed. I'm sure some of them have, but I really don't have the time to read through 8 threads of 50+ pages each. I also apologize if I come off as "accusatory" or "disrespectful." Sometimes tones are difficult to convey through text, and I can assure you that it is not my intention to offend you or insult your beliefs.

1. Is it true that non-Mormons are not permitted inside your churches? If so, what is the reason for this policy? Also, how would you know if someone coming in is Mormon or not?

Non-members are always welcome inside our churches. We invite anyone who wants us to attend.
Now, there is sometimes confusion between churches and temples. You have to have a temple recommend to enter our temples. These recommends signify that you have personally prepared yourself to receive the blessings that are only obtained there, like eternal families, and that you have gone through personal interviews with your bishop and your stake president.

2. Through my job last summer, I worked with a Mormon. I was under the impression that Mormons were not allowed to consume caffeine, yet this person had coffee every morning and constantly had a Mountain Dew with him during the day. Am I mistaken on the Mormon belief, or is he just a "bad" Mormon? If Mormons are not allowed to have things like that, why?

Tea and coffee are against the Word of Wisdom, a revelation that came to Joseph Smith when he asked about tobacco. Other caffeinated drinks like Mountain Dew are sort of "border line" and are up to the individual's conscience. In other words, I was raised that Coke is bad for you, but if I drank it, it wouldn't keep me out of the temple.

3. When you refer to "General Conference" what exactly is that? Is it required that all attend? Does it take place at one central location, or is it something that each congregation does individually?

General Conference happens twice a year. It is broadcast from the Conference Center on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. The First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles give us divine instruction, as well as others who may be called on, such as the General Relief Society President. It is broadcast across most of the world, excepting a few places where satellite can't physically reach. It is then put in printed form in the Ensign or Liahona, monthly Church magazines that families can subscribe to or are made available through church libraries in ward meetinghouses. It's not really a "requirement", per se, but something highly desired and looked forward to. I hate missing parts, but I can read later when the Ensign shows up in my mailbox.

4. How do your "missions" work? Is every Mormon required to participate in one, or is it optional? Where do you go to do them? At what age do you generally do a mission?

All worthy males are encouraged to go on a mission at the age of 19. If a woman so chooses, she can go when she is 21. There is also a great need for couple missionaries, retired people who have the time and money to go out and serve in family history centers, temples, etc. Sometimes they are called to be proselyting missionaries, too, like the younger ones.
Basically you visit with your bishop and stake president, you fill out the paperwork, the papers are sent to the First Presidency, and a mission call shows up in your mailbox, signed by the President of the Church, which tells you where you have been called (there are now missions in almost every country of the world) and gives you further instructions.

5. Why does it seem that almost all Mormons live in Utah? I understand that your "Headquarters" is there, but why do you all live there? (eg not all Catholics live in Italy, Jews in Israel, Muslims in Mecca, etc.- most don't, and with the exception of the Muslims, most never even travel to their religion's "home" during their lifetime)

Utah is currently less than 50% active LDS. There are currently more members of our Church in South America than in the USA. There are literally temples dotting the earth today, on every continent. The Book of Mormon has been translated into something like 75 languages. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is truly a worldwide church.
You may find these population statistics interesting: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_lds.html

missypotter

April 10th, 2006, 7:24 pm

Kingbobs, great questions. Feel free to post any others you may have as well.

I just wanted to add something to the Church/Temple explaination. Churches are the buildings around the community that we hold our Sunday worship services in. We also have children activites, youth activities, etc there during the week.

Temples are special buildings and even though they are all over the world, they are not in every neighborhood. There is probably one in the area in which you live. These are for special services in which members make eternal covenants with God. These are sacred and non-members are not allowed in these buildings. You can however, tour the grounds and get information there. Before a Temple is dedicated to the Lord, visitors in the area are invited to walk through the Temple and see inside. It is a great experience if there is one being built where you live.

Naruhodo

April 11th, 2006, 5:50 am

Kind of a random question, but I'm going to go for it anyway. My dad is LDS, and my ex-girlfriend is. They are basically my only contacts to the Mormon world, so I don't claim to be extremely educated on the subject. However, I know that the LDS IS a Christian church, in my opinion and in the opinion of the Mormons. I go to a Catholic university (Gonzaga) and my suitemates say that some Christians (very strongly) claim that the LDS church is NON-Christian because they believe that when you go to heaven, you become a quazi-demigod ruling over either A.) Another planet, or B.) a section of heaven. Care to shead light?

EDIT: I know that you can be with your family in heaven if you are sealed, is that where this misconception is coming from? Or are they right? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

Seshet

April 11th, 2006, 10:35 pm

Well... more or less. It is our believe that we are the literal spirit-children of our Heavenly Father, and thus, as a puppy becomes a dog, and a lamb becomes a sheep, etc., those who follow the commandments of God on earth will have an opportunity to be like him in the afterlife, i.e. creating planets, having children, etc. However, we shall all continue to worship God, and Jesus Christ will forever be our Savior. Someone else add something?

halfbreedlover

April 11th, 2006, 11:22 pm

Tea and coffee are against the Word of Wisdom, a revelation that came to Joseph Smith when he asked about tobacco. Other caffeinated drinks like Mountain Dew are sort of "border line" and are up to the individual's conscience. In other words, I was raised that Coke is bad for you, but if I drank it, it wouldn't keep me out of the temple.

So here's another random question: Are you allowed to drink decaf coffee?

Pegasus

April 12th, 2006, 4:29 am

So here's another random question: Are you allowed to drink decaf coffee?
No. Anyone who tries to justify that one is fooling themselves, and I say that without apology. There is specific wording about "strong drinks" and "hot drinks". As far as Latter-day Saints are concerned, coffee isn't good for you and it's against the Word of Wisdom, period.
Then the question that inevitably pops up in high school seminary: What about hot chocolate/cocoa? If it's hot enough to burn your mouth and throat, it's obviously not good for you.

katromig

April 12th, 2006, 4:52 am

No. Anyone who tries to justify that one is fooling themselves, and I say that without apology. There is specific wording about "strong drinks" and "hot drinks". As far as Latter-day Saints are concerned, coffee isn't good for you and it's against the Word of Wisdom, period.
Then the question that inevitably pops up in high school seminary: What about hot chocolate/cocoa? If it's hot enough to burn your mouth and throat, it's obviously not good for you.

What if the drink is lukewarm so its not hot enough to burn your throat, then can you have it? Can you have hot food? If so, why the difference between hot food and hot drink?

Naruhodo

April 12th, 2006, 9:21 am

What if the drink is lukewarm so its not hot enough to burn your throat, then can you have it? Can you have hot food? If so, why the difference between hot food and hot drink?

Here's what I got from the Words of Wisdom, though I'm not Mormon and can't really comment. The passage, a revalation passed to Joseph Smith I believe in Kirtland, came about because members were using tobacco in church. The specific passage comments on hot drinks and alcohol being bad, as well as saying that members of the church should eat as little meat as possible. From what I understand, this passage has been determined to mean that caffiene is bad (which, really it is), and that anything that is bad for you shouldn't be consumed because the Lord put enough food on this earth for everyone to be able to eat healthy. So coffee in all forms would be bad for you. Like I said, I'm not Mormon, but from an outsider looking in, that's what I got.

Pegasus

April 12th, 2006, 3:03 pm

Here's what I got from the Words of Wisdom, though I'm not Mormon and can't really comment. The passage, a revalation passed to Joseph Smith I believe in Kirtland, came about because members were using tobacco in church. The specific passage comments on hot drinks and alcohol being bad, as well as saying that members of the church should eat as little meat as possible. From what I understand, this passage has been determined to mean that caffiene is bad (which, really it is), and that anything that is bad for you shouldn't be consumed because the Lord put enough food on this earth for everyone to be able to eat healthy. So coffee in all forms would be bad for you. Like I said, I'm not Mormon, but from an outsider looking in, that's what I got.
That's wonderful. I should add that it's not "as little meat as possible", it's "meat in moderation." There are places in the Doctrine and Covenants, the book of scripture where you can find the revelation we're discussing, that tell you that meat should not be forbidden, but used sparingly.
I've been thinking about this overnight, and decided I should explain something:
There's the letter of the law, and there's the spirit of the law. When people are living the letter of the law, or being obedient because they're told to, they look for justification and ask a lot of "what ifs". They stay away from the cookie jar because they're supposed to, but they really want that cookie and will be sorely tempted to take one when Mom's back is turned. These are the people who would say "But it's decaf." (I got as adamant as I did because I've heard that before, and Latter-day Saints know better.)There are even people who would say, "Well, it doesn't specifically say marijuana" even though it's obvious.
Those who are being obedient because they want to be be valiant do it because they know it's right and they want to be good. They look for ways to do what's right instead of looking for loopholes. They stay away from the cookie jar because they know that too many cookies will make them sick and that dinner will be in an hour, and that other people might miss out on a cookie if they have more than their share. They have the maturity to exercise self control.
Now, eating a cookie now and then is not going to do any harm, unless you are allergic to them or you're trying to lose weight and you're addicted to sugar and one cookie will lead to a binge. As far as Latter-day Saints are concerned, tobacco, tea, coffee, alcohol drinks, and other harmful drugs (this is the category I put caffeine in) are an absolute taboo, and will stop your spiritual progression, even if you take health out of the picture.
The cookie jar analogy applies to everything in the Church, not just the Word of Wisdom. We believe that sexual immorality is absolutely wrong. Our leaders have given us clear guidelines. Anyone with ears knows what those are. I've heard people justify lots of things as "not that bad." If you're trying to be valiant, you don't quibble with your chastity like that.
Nobody's perfect. We all have our weaknesses. The best way to temper those weaknesses is not to see how close we can get without getting burned, but to stay away from the heat altogether.

Rastaban43

April 12th, 2006, 6:49 pm

I should add that it's not "as little meat as possible", it's "meat in moderation." There are places in the Doctrine and Covenants, the book of scripture where you can find the revelation we're discussing, that tell you that meat should not be forbidden, but used sparingly.Sorry to bother. I've got more Mormon friends who are concerned with my vegetarianism than anyone else (and that's saying something as I'm in Texas at the moment.) So considering that I'm very polite to non-vegetarians and keep to myself about it mostly, shouldn't they be happy for me? But they don't exactly eat meat in a manner I would remotely call sparingly. What's the problem here?

Lash Dresden

April 12th, 2006, 6:56 pm

Sorry to bother. I've got more Mormon friends who are concerned with my vegetarianism than anyone else (and that's saying something as I'm in Texas at the moment.) So considering that I'm very polite to non-vegetarians and keep to myself about it mostly, shouldn't they be happy for me? But they don't exactly eat meat in a manner I would remotely call sparingly. What's the problem here?Based solely on the information you've provided, I'd say the problem is that they're not living their religion as they should. But that's a pretty harsh judgment to make, and I don't like making judgments. Maybe you should talk to them about it?

If you're interested, the Word of Wisdom in its entirety can be read here (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89). At the time it was given it was not a commandment but it now is.

PS: You're not a bother. Feel free to join our discussion and/or ask questions any time. :)

Rastaban43

April 12th, 2006, 7:27 pm

Based solely on the information you've provided, I'd say the problem is that they're not living their religion as they should. But that's a pretty harsh judgment to make, and I don't like making judgments. Maybe you should talk to them about it?Well, I'm not really worried about it or anything. I go to uni in Utah, so I know a lot of Mormons, and they're all rather nice people. But the general feeling I get is they kind of ignore the "eat meat sparingly" rule, unless one serving of meat at every meal is considered sparingly.

From your Doctrine and Covenants: "...And it is pleasing unto me that [flesh] should not be used..." so I get the idea that it's better for your memebers to eat less meat except in winter time. I guess in Utah it's reasonable to say that there's a long winter! :lol: Anyway, I'm just asking if this is a strict rule because it seems like it doesn't really matter, sort of like caffeine.

Lash Dresden

April 12th, 2006, 9:28 pm

Eating too much meat (or any unhealthy diet) won't keep a member from being temple worthy. It's one of those things that's between the member and the Lord.

Rastaban43

April 12th, 2006, 9:42 pm

Eating too much meat (or any unhealthy diet) won't keep a member from being temple worthy. It's one of those things that's between the member and the Lord.So it's a personal choice then? I guess that makes sense. Thanks!

Lash Dresden

April 12th, 2006, 9:49 pm

So it's a personal choice then? I guess that makes sense. Thanks!
Well everything is a personal choice -- whether we want to obey any of the commandments at all, or not. Church member should follow the Word of Wisdom, but obviously many don't.

(I don't think I'm explaining myself well - someone else want to help out?)

Pegasus

April 12th, 2006, 9:50 pm

There's a lot of really good dietary guidance in the Word of Wisdom, or Section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants. The parts of this that will affect your standing in the church--meaning your readiness for baptism, your temple worthiness, etc.--are alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and other harmful drugs, which on the worthiness level applies to abusing prescription drugs, illegal drugs, those things that are generally considered "bad" drugs.
Like Rapunzel said, the rest is between you and the Lord.

The point, really, is to come unto Christ. There are different levels of testimonies and obedience as people go up the ladder to eternal life. (Please understand that this is all metaphorical.) We're all doing our best, working on the things we need to work on, whether it be speaking kindly, not holding grudges, just how much television violence and sex we allow into our homes. It's a constant process, with daily repentance. We're all hypocrites, really, because the commandment is "Be ye therefore perfect" and that's not possible in this life. So we all do our best and repent along the way. It's because of our own imperfections and the power of the atonement in everyone's life that we need to be very careful in how we judge others.
Coffee of any kind will keep you out of the temple or keep you from being baptized. Are there members who struggle with this commandment? Sure.

Pegasus

April 19th, 2006, 12:29 am

I realize this is a double post, but it's been almost a week. I'll consolidate it later.
How was everyone's Easter? Mine was exhausting, but it was worth it. It was among the best Sacrament Meetings I've ever taken part in. It took the right amount of time, all the choir members who rehearsed with us showed up and remembered their parts, the His Hands duet was beautiful, I got through mine despite the crying, my daughters did really well on their duet. The message came across well. The bishop thanked me twice. It's always very obvious when something was inspired.

Jenni Radcliffe

April 19th, 2006, 1:26 am

Happy late Easter!!! :D Mine was great! We had an AWESOME lesson in Young Women's. It was on the Atonement, but my leader put it in a new light for me. It really made sense to me and I have a new appreciation for it!

Pegasus

April 21st, 2006, 1:39 am

The Atonement is really quite a dynamic thing. I still learn more about it every time.

snowgoose

April 21st, 2006, 2:08 pm

Hi, I've only recently joined this forum and I've only just found this thread. I'm a member in York, UK. Conference definitley sneaked up on me but being in Nursery a lot of things have caught me unanware.

About the question regarding decaf coffee, it's still got caffeine in it , just less than normal coffee. It's just been 'washed'. Other drinks containig caffeine weren't around at the time the word of wisdom was first put into print so they couldn't have been excluded. The general consensus on thees is that it's free agency. I don't drink coke etc and don't have any in my house for my children to consume.
And as for mormon's drinking coffee etc. every religion has those who still claim to be a member of that group but are not actively practising whatever that group does. We tend to call those people less or non active.

I think that Easter is my most poignant time of year. I will never be able to truly understand what Christ went through for me, but I can enough to be really moved by his sacrifice. I feel so much more at Easter than I do at Christmas. Both special, but Easter more spiritual if you see what I mean?
Just had a phone call frm an exneigbour asking me to take her mother to church with me one sunday as her mother really unhappy at the moment. Husband died last year and is still struggling with life. Exneighbour sadi she was talking to her mum baout different things they could do when she had a feeling that she should suggest visiting our church! Her mother.. who has never even met a mormon (that she knows of) said she felt it was the right thing to do!!!!I shall wait and see if she phonesme... then work out how to pick her up with my 3 kids and husband in tow... she lives 30 mns away and Sacrament starts at 9.I know I'll find a way.

Ginny1976

April 22nd, 2006, 3:14 am

:welcome: Snowgoose!

On behalf of everyone! Enjoy the threads, they're really fun.

Wow, it's been a long while since I've been on. Easter was wonderful! We watched "the Lamb of God" for FHE on monday and it really touched my kids. My 2 year old daughter was putting her hands over her eyes during a certain painful part and then almost crying for the nails and I was touched that she understood. I think it's been about 2 years since we've seen it, so it was refreshing to see again.

snowgoose

April 22nd, 2006, 1:45 pm

I don't know if any of you have seen this kids book? It was given to my 3 yo fo rher birthday, but my 7yo understands it best.. it's called 'You are special' by max lucado, not LDS but great book. It was amazing to watch her face when she realised that Heavenly Father loved her just because she is his.Didn't have to be the best at anything, or prove herself, just because she is his daughter.

firemaam129

April 23rd, 2006, 7:24 am

Snowgoose-
If you enjoyed "You are special," then you should also investigate the other Max Lucado books. He has a beautiful way of explaining Heavenly Father's love and purpose for us. I don't think that Mr. Lucado is LDS, but he has a special talent for writing his books. My favorites are the follow up book about Punchinello (I can't remember the title but it talks about the endless search for the Wemmicks to have more and more "stuff") and a story about a crippled Lamb on the eve of the Savior's birth.

Enjoy his books, My four daughters and I sure have!

snowgoose

April 23rd, 2006, 9:15 pm

I'll keep my eyes open. Thanks.

AchelRay

April 25th, 2006, 12:26 am

I love Max Lucado books they're all on my bookshelf sandwiched between Harry Potter and my quad. They all have wonderful messages that relate to the gospel perfectly. They always make me feel happy to the point of crying. My favorite has to be Just the Way You Are. It's a wonderful story and I love it.

Pegasus

April 29th, 2006, 12:38 am

New person! Hi! :welcome:
I finally have a visiting teaching partner! My mom was nice enough to go with me for several months because I felt so strongly about going in pairs, but my RS president called yesterday to tell me she's found me a partner. It's a lady who was just reactivated a few months ago who I've been encouraging to come to ward choir and finally did last week.

snowgoose

April 29th, 2006, 2:07 pm

cool. I have just been called as visiting teaching coordinator... so I guess I'll be looking at stuff like that. Only thing at the moment is our ward covers a huge geographical area and it's a little daunting!

Pegasus

April 30th, 2006, 12:44 am

We had a rather large area when we lived in Las Vegas, but I know it was quite small compared to some. I've just lived most of my life in Utah.
Is it one of those where you have to drive an hour to even get to church, or is it smaller than that?

AchelRay

May 4th, 2006, 10:53 pm

I know that Las Vegas isn't as bad as some other places, but it still can be hard to drive 15 minutes to church. My cousins live in Las Vegas but I still find it strange to have to meet up after church to ride home. I live in Utah and so I normally just walk home after church and BYC meetings. It's a lot easier for my family and I because we all have different things to do right after church. My mom is in the Relief Society presidency, my dad is a scout leader, and I'm in the beehive presidency. It can be hard to all be home at the same time on Sundays.

Pegasus

May 8th, 2006, 5:00 pm

I found out yesterday that I am capable of being the choir director and the accompanist at the same time...but just for rehearsals, and mostly just for pounding parts. I'm beginning to understand why the Lord placed me in this calling.

busy91

May 8th, 2006, 6:40 pm

I have a question for an LDS.

In the past I've had missionaries come to my house and/or approach me in the street. I have actually been to an LDS service. It wasn't for me. And in the past when I was approached in the street I'd tell them I was 'Catholic' and they would be polite and move on.

A few weeks ago 2 LDS males came to my door. I opened it and politely told them I have been to their church and that I was 'Catholic' but thanks for there time. In the past this would have been enough for them. Then they wanted to offer me the BOM, I told them I have a copy, that wasn't enough. They kept on and on.

So my question is...The passive approach in the past didn't bother me much, what is with the more aggressive approach?

I finally had to close the door on them. I hate being rude (well no not really) but enough already.

Pegasus

May 8th, 2006, 7:25 pm

I have a question for an LDS.
So my question is...The passive approach in the past didn't bother me much, what is with the more aggressive approach?

Different missionaries. That's it. No change in Church policy, mission rules, anything like that. It's strictly individual personalities.

busy91

May 8th, 2006, 9:04 pm

Different missionaries. That's it. No change in Church policy, mission rules, anything like that. It's strictly individual personalities.
Thanks for the answer.:D

Pegasus

May 9th, 2006, 1:34 am

Thanks for the answer.:D
Sorry I can't give you more. I seem to be a little short on words today. Usually someone else comes along and states or explains things better, but the thread seems a bit help-empty today.

Jenni Radcliffe

May 9th, 2006, 1:41 am

Sorry I can't give you more. I seem to be a little short on words today. Usually someone else comes along and states or explains things better, but the thread seems a bit help-empty today.
Well... I'd help you, but i'm pretty sure you explained it well enough!
It's true that different people are going to have a different approach to missionary work. Some, as you say, are more aggressive, but that might work for some people. different things work for different people!! :D
Hope that maybe helps even a tiny bit... lol
But Pegasus did a good job! :clap:

Pegasus

May 9th, 2006, 1:48 am

Thanks, Jenni, that feels a little less curt than what I said. :D

busy91

May 9th, 2006, 4:50 pm

You both explained it fine. I suppose in my neighborhood you would have to be more aggressive, but I recall in the past, they were less so (this is going back 10 years). Maybe that approach wasn't working in NYC!

snowgoose

May 9th, 2006, 8:57 pm

We had a few missionaries behave like that here a while ago, and they were talked to about it. I don't think the general rule has changed. If a person is going to convert, they will feel the spirit, hammering at somebody isn't going to make it more likely to happen.
It's definitely a personality thing, but it's not an approach that's encouraged in my experience.
Pegasus, it would take you an hour to drive from one end of my ward boundary to the other. Some parts of my ward are really rural and there is only one family living in that area, the next sister is 15 minutes away from her, and so on. So not huge gaps between people, but big enough when you've got 4 sisters to visit and they're all strung out like pearls on a necklace!

Lash Dresden

May 9th, 2006, 9:12 pm

The last time our visiting teacher supervisor gave a pep-talk in Relief Society, she told us about a ward in Alaska where they have to drive hours to reach the sisters they visit. And then they started having problems with polar bears. She said, "can you imagine having to take a gun when you go visiting teaching?!" Sort of made any excuses we give ourselves for not getting ours done seem kind of small. :lol:

missypotter

May 9th, 2006, 11:39 pm

Good story to motivate visiting teaching. It is such an important work to do and somehow seems to get pushed to the side a good deal of the time. Just my little plug for visiting teaching. :eyebrows:

Pegasus

May 10th, 2006, 3:43 am

Which I'm doing tomorrow! I made all my phone calls today, except one lady needs to call me back. Now if I can just get to the temple this month. We didn't make it last month, and it was the ten-year anniversary of my first time through--pathetic.

Lash Dresden

May 10th, 2006, 3:45 am

You want to hear pathetic? I renewed my recommend in January and still haven't used it yet. :blush:

Pegasus

May 10th, 2006, 3:53 am

Oops...

snowgoose

May 10th, 2006, 3:10 pm

You want to hear pathetic? I renewed my recommend in January and still haven't used it yet. :blush:
That kind of depends on how far away from the temple you are for it to be pathetic.

Lash Dresden

May 10th, 2006, 8:35 pm

That kind of depends on how far away from the temple you are for it to be pathetic.A couple of miles, tops. Very pathetic. :agree:

Jenni Radcliffe

May 11th, 2006, 3:01 am

Thanks, Jenni, that feels a little less curt than what I said.
haha you're quite welcome!
Speaking of pathetic, I haven't been for... umm... like 2 months (when we went for Young Women's) and there are temples like 15 mins to 30 mins in almost any direction from my house. But it's a little harder for me... i can only do baptisms, and i can't drive myself! lol! But still... i'd like to go more :p

AchelRay

May 11th, 2006, 3:13 am

haha you're quite welcome!
Speaking of pathetic, I haven't been for... umm... like 2 months (when we went for Young Women's) and there are temples like 15 mins to 30 mins in almost any direction from my house. But it's a little harder for me... i can only do baptisms, and i can't drive myself! lol! But still... i'd like to go more :p

I know what you mean. I haven't been in ages, and for me it's less then 10 minutes to the south and less then 20 minutes to the north. I've been to the temple grounds but not inside. The only reason we didn't go inside is because it's a YW leaders goal to get us at least on the grounds every quarter. We went to the Joseph Smith movie in Salt Lake and then went through temple square.

Has anyone else seen the Joseph Smith movie at the Legacy theater?

snowgoose

May 11th, 2006, 11:35 am

hmmm, Temple 2 hrs drive from me, but that's closer than the London temple which is 4-5 hrs drive.Trying to get a date to go with my eldest and buy her a dress for her baptism in July. I could make it but I'm not so sure my sewing will stand up to complete soaking, and she would be so embarressed if her dress came apart...not even thinking about that. She starts having discussions with the missionaries on Saturday. It's kind of funny, kind of cute watching a 7yo girl's reaction to the elders!

Pegasus

May 11th, 2006, 4:11 pm

Has anyone else seen the Joseph Smith movie at the Legacy theater?
Yes. I was one of the first ones with tickets. :D Absolutely wonderful movie. It even made my 7-year-old cry. I daresay this is the best Joseph Smith movie the Church has made yet.

hmmm, Temple 2 hrs drive from me, but that's closer than the London temple which is 4-5 hrs drive.Trying to get a date to go with my eldest and buy her a dress for her baptism in July. I could make it but I'm not so sure my sewing will stand up to complete soaking, and she would be so embarressed if her dress came apart...not even thinking about that. She starts having discussions with the missionaries on Saturday. It's kind of funny, kind of cute watching a 7yo girl's reaction to the elders!
Our stake centers are stocked with jumper suits for the kids to wear into the water. Are we even more fortunate than I realized?
I bought my 7-year-old a "baptism dress" for her next birthday, but it's just a pretty white dress to wear home and for afterward pictures, then to church as long as it fits. I got it online, but it's in the States, so the link might not be of much use to you.
I've never heard of the missionaries coming in for member family baptisms. Is that something they always do in your corner of the world?

That kind of depends on how far away from the temple you are for it to be pathetic.
We have two temples in the valley with three more popping up within the next ten years or so. :D (Then there are the ones just on the other side of the mountains both to the north and south...)

Jenni Radcliffe

May 12th, 2006, 2:10 am

Has anyone else seen the Joseph Smith movie at the Legacy theater?
YES!!! we went for Young Women's!! It was great!!! I was sitting next to one of my very best friends, and we were both just bawling! It was very good!
For my baptism, someone from te stake (I can't even remember who now) came and i got to just pick out of a bunch of dressess that they had stored at the stake center. and then i had a cute little white dresss (it is still hanging in my closet) for my confirmation and for pictures, and all that!

AchelRay

May 12th, 2006, 3:51 am

YES!!! we went for Young Women's!! It was great!!! I was sitting next to one of my very best friends, and we were both just bawling! It was very good!

I know what you mean. I loved it. We went for a combined activity you could see the boys in front of us trying not to cry and the girls sitting around us just bawling and wiping there eyes when they couldn't see anymore. It was typical boys and girls. I bawled through the last 20 minutes with my friends sitting around me. Now I'm really glad I didn't go to my band concert and chose to go to the Joseph Smith movie.

snowgoose

May 12th, 2006, 11:09 am

Our stake centers are stocked with jumper suits for the kids to wear into the water. Are we even more fortunate than I realized?
I bought my 7-year-old a "baptism dress" for her next birthday, but it's just a pretty white dress to wear home and for afterward pictures, then to church as long as it fits. I got it online, but it's in the States, so the link might not be of much use to you.
I've never heard of the missionaries coming in for member family baptisms. Is that something they always do in your corner of the world?

We have adult jump suits but nothing for kids. I guess the assumption is that it's the adults who are converts, but the kids are usually from memeber families.It also seems that the girls wear dresses for their baptism, not nearly as practical as the suits!
I joined the Church when I was 15, so I'm not entirely convinced that I can 'teach' my daughter what she needs. When I asked around about preparing for baptism, it seems that some people involve the missionaries, some don't. There is another girl in eldest's class whose birthday is a week later, her mum approached me and asked if I thought they could see the missionaries together, I think in this ward , the member's do involve the elders in the children's baptisms.The elder's don't do the baptism/comfirmation (unless that's what the child wants of course) but they are involved in the preparation.

Pegasus

May 13th, 2006, 12:07 am

We have adult jump suits but nothing for kids. I guess the assumption is that it's the adults who are converts, but the kids are usually from memeber families.It also seems that the girls wear dresses for their baptism, not nearly as practical as the suits!
I joined the Church when I was 15, so I'm not entirely convinced that I can 'teach' my daughter what she needs. When I asked around about preparing for baptism, it seems that some people involve the missionaries, some don't. There is another girl in eldest's class whose birthday is a week later, her mum approached me and asked if I thought they could see the missionaries together, I think in this ward , the member's do involve the elders in the children's baptisms.The elder's don't do the baptism/comfirmation (unless that's what the child wants of course) but they are involved in the preparation.
My sister-in-law put both her girls in the dress that she wore when she was baptized. In our area, though, that's the only time I've seen it done. It was actually kind of neat, since they were the only ones in dresses, but I'm going for practicality and ease, and what I did. :)
My daughter's scriptures came today. Silly me--they shipped them to me and now I have to actually go in to get them engraved. I could have done it all at once. Oh, well; I ordered online when I had a minute, and was able to shop around a little instead of having to drive around. Word to the wise: I got my daughter a polycord tapestry case for $6 through the Distribution Center. It only comes in black, but the more colorful pink, etc. polycord tapestry cases at Deseret Book are $26!

Jenni Radcliffe

May 14th, 2006, 7:23 am

I know what you mean. I loved it. We went for a combined activity you could see the boys in front of us trying not to cry and the girls sitting around us just bawling and wiping there eyes when they couldn't see anymore. It was typical boys and girls. I bawled through the last 20 minutes with my friends sitting around me. Now I'm really glad I didn't go to my band concert and chose to go to the Joseph Smith movie.
We went for a combined too, but i was too busy wiping my eyes to notice anyone else really! it was so good though! I love it when u make the kind of decisions (like the band vs j.s. movie) that you know were guided by the spirit, and you have a really good experience when you make the right choice! It makes you want to do it more!
But on the baptism thing... I was baptized in a dress! I think it was a bit bigger back then... I'm the youngest in my fam, so i don't reallly know the "style" for baptism apparal! lol

snowgoose

May 14th, 2006, 6:43 pm

Pegasus

May 14th, 2006, 8:57 pm

talked to missionaries yesterday. It appears that Pres Hinckley has asked that unless you already own a dress, that you use a jump suit.We looked through our cupboard today and we have some really nasty dresses, and adult jump suits, but nothing for kids.Ward clerk is going to the Temple this week, he is now going armed with a shopping list for jump suits!!!!
Bravo!!! :clap: Yea for online forums. :D
I just got this link in my gmail box and wanted to share:Ammon's "disarming" story in Legos (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8118316803396050350)

AchelRay

May 14th, 2006, 11:49 pm

I like it. It's pretty funny that it's done in legos.

On the jumpsuit vs. dress issue, I was baptized in a dresss now nearly 15 girls have been baptized in one or the other of the dresses (they started out on my twin cousins). I do understand why they say if you don't have a dress right now use a jumpsuit. The skirt on my dress wouldn't go under the water so I had to figure out a way for it to stick to me (then my hair stuck to my dad) so it took a couple tries to get all of me under the water.

snowgoose

May 15th, 2006, 4:20 pm

How did you find that lego site!!!?
The jump suit thing has come about, not because of it coming up when immersed, but because it standardises the practise. Ummmm, not explainig too well. Elder said that Pres Hinkley is trying to stop the fact that some girls have really fancy dresses, and others can't afford them. It's to stop feelings of envy, if everybody in a jump suit, then nobody feels plain.
I can understand the thinking. It was a bithard to explain to eldest though. She'd been having lessons where she was told she had to keep her dress down, so she had decided in her head that that was how it was going to be. It's quite hard to get her to change her mind. However she'd also just been talking about following the prophet so I asked her what she thought she should do. We don't own a dress( I'm the first member in my family.) The only dress in the cupboard was horrid and we don't have anybody we could borrow a dress off( she's very tall). So I explained what the prohet had asked, and asked her what she wanted to do.

Pegasus

May 15th, 2006, 5:56 pm

missypotter

May 15th, 2006, 6:03 pm

I wore a white skirt and blouse when I was baptized (many many years ago) long before anyone thought of jump suits. I spent the whole time trying to keep my skirt down as it bubbled up. I think the jump suits are genious. Snowgoose, good luck to your clerk.

Pegasus

May 15th, 2006, 6:07 pm

They're definitely a good investment for a stake closet; they're only worn once per person, and not for very long, so they last...well, forever.

AchelRay

May 16th, 2006, 12:25 am

They're definitely a good investment for a stake closet; they're only worn once per person, and not for very long, so they last...well, forever.
Depending if you're doing a stake or private baptism... I remember a stake baptism I went to where there were about 10-12 kids being baptized so the jumpsuits were on them for over an hour each (still not very long). Is there anything about doing more private baptisms that is discouraged? A cousin of mine was baptized at 9am New Year's Day at a stake baptism and nearly half our family couldn't come because they had to work the night before and didn't want to drive over night. His sister's had had private baptisms in a different ward because family that wanted to come had lived far away.

Pegasus

May 16th, 2006, 1:04 am

It's not unheard of to ask the bishop if you can do it a different day. My nephew had his own on his birthday, because it happened to be on a Saturday that was just as convenient for a member of the bishopric. However, it probably depends on your bishopric and Stake Presidency. There is a bit of work that goes into it, like filling the font and having the right representation.

snowgoose

May 16th, 2006, 12:34 pm

Pegasus

May 16th, 2006, 2:00 pm

When I was talking to the elders, they said it could be any day of the week, but that you got confirmed the following Sunday. They said that for child baptisms it was usually recommended that you did the baptism on the Saturday and the confirmation the next day.
What do you mean by Stake baptism? The only kinds Iknow of oare private or temple? Maybe we don't have the number of children???
When I was a kid it was all the kid it was all the kids in the stake with birthdays the past month, all in one room. It amounted to 3 or 4. Ten years ago, when I first got married and was living in Las Vegas, it was the same, but there were enough for the chapel rather than just the room connected to the font, and they went out one ward at a time to go watch. Now, in the stake I'm in, each ward meets in a separate room and take turns using the font. Sometimes there is a brief wait to give another ward time to finish, but from what I've seen, they're good at timing it.
Our stake baptisms are the first Saturday of every month, unless there's a conflict like General Conference. Then it gets scooted to the week before or after, whenever they've moved Fast Sunday to. If there's only one child that month, their family is in charge of the program; otherwise they cooperate.
Another interesting note: Our confirmations are generally done the same day as the baptism. There's a talk on baptism, the actual baptism, a talk on the Holy Ghost, then the confirmation. I think it's to free up Sacrament Meeting time on Fast Sunday.
Convert baptisms are whenever is convenient for the elders and the individual, but generally on Saturdays.

snowgoose

May 16th, 2006, 10:29 pm

ok, we don't have stake baptisms. Occassionally kids will join up if their birthdays are close, but that's rare. Eldest has a friend whose birthday is the week after, other child's sister is getting baptised now too. Sisiter's obviously being done together, but it's up to mine whether she has her own day or joins her friend.
I think the confirmation change came about because a lot of converts were getting baptised, confirmed and then going inactive. If there is a gap between baptism and confirmation , and the convert changes their mind when baptised only, at least they aren't denying knowledge they've received, which they would be doing if they were confirmed.

jv187

May 17th, 2006, 1:31 am

this is the first time iv been to this part of cos...i was suprised to find an LDS thread...im in the process of getting ready for my mission (ill be 19 in june) and also getting ready for getting the melchezidek priesthood which i will hopefully get for next week is stake conference...

Pegasus

May 17th, 2006, 1:39 am

Awesome! Good to meet you! :welcome:

jv187

May 17th, 2006, 1:48 am

who here have gone on missions and where did you go?

or if you havent where would you like to go?

id like to go somewhere out of the usa... id like to learn a different language sometime in my life, so going on a foreign speaking mission would be a good way to learn a different language. Maybe Japan or Italy would be cool... ...anywhere in the UK would be cool also
i have 2 brothers who have gone on missions...the oldest went to Haiti and spoke french creol and the other went to Las Vegas spanish speaking.

Jenni Radcliffe

May 17th, 2006, 2:02 am

When I was a kid it was all the kid it was all the kids in the stake with birthdays the past month, all in one room. It amounted to 3 or 4
I had a stake baptism! It was exactaly one month after my birthday, and being an 8 year old, I was so anxious it seemed like forever! :lol: But i still remember there were 5 people, and one of them happened to be my 2nd grade crush :blush: hahaha!
who here have gone on missions and where did you go?

or if you havent where would you like to go?
If i'm not married by the time for a mission, I'm definately going! I don't really care where, because i think that wherever I was called would be cool!

snowgoose

May 17th, 2006, 2:49 pm

I didn't go in a mission, but I kind of wish I had. The time was never right, but I really respect those that go because they want to.

AchelRay

May 18th, 2006, 3:17 am

I'm not old enough but if I'm not married by the time I'm 21 I'd like to go on a mission. I'd personally like to go somewhere in Euope or Asia though I'd go anywhere.

Pegasus

May 18th, 2006, 3:45 am

I'd like to go on a temple mission with my husband, about 30 years from now.

snowgoose

May 20th, 2006, 9:13 pm

Jenni Radcliffe

May 21st, 2006, 7:59 pm

Pegasus

May 22nd, 2006, 12:39 am

eldest had the discussion this evening aboutthe plan of salvation.
It's made her really think, mostly because there are 2 sisters having the discussions with her. 1 is her age, the other is 2 years older but has Downes syndrome.
We were talking about the celestial kingdom and the younger sister said 'x is going straight there isn't she. ' Then we had to have a discussi0on on how x is unable to make decisions or choices and so can't be judged as we will be. It was really hard for my eldest to accept. She sat there looking perplexed and then said it wasn't fair!
Had to have a really long talk about the pre existence, and choices. In the end I asked her, which would she rather have, her body, or x's. If she chose to have her body, then she would have to accept that with this body she can choose right or wrong, and then she can be judged on how she chose, or she can choose the body which doesn't understand the whole concept and so will only be judged on what she does understand.
She chose her body, but I think she's still struggling with the enormity of it all. She's just come to me and said ' I feel really strange, like somethings not right. ' All I could do was say to her that she needed top pray to help her understand.

That's quite a discussion. I know adults who have trouble with that one.
It reminds me of when I thought so hard about eternity when I was a kid that it made me scared. My mom reminded me that everything will look and feel different when the veil is removed, and this "blind spot" we're surrounded by is only temporary. She helped me understand that I'll be surrounded by people I love and will never have to say goodbye again.

On friday, we were having an officer party (i'm an SBO at my school) and somehow, the conversation changed to religion! There was a Christian, a Catholic, and then 4 LDS girls and 1 inactive girl, and we were discussing the differences between our religions. I was really proud of myself because they would ask me questions, and i was able to answer every single one of them, and explain to them in detail what our views on some things were! Everyone (including myself) was impressed with my knowledge! I had no idea what to say, and i'm sure the spirit was guiding me. I helped my LDS friends understand some of our beliefs better, and i helped teach the gospel to 2 non-members! My inactive friend was also really touched! It made me feel really good to be able to share the gospel. Living where i live, with so many members, it is sometimes hard to have a missionary experience, but i got one that night, and i was very proud of myself for being a good example and listening to the spirit. It makes me want to go on a mission even more.
What an awesome experience!

snowgoose

May 22nd, 2006, 2:14 pm

On friday, we were having an officer party (i'm an SBO at my school) and somehow, the conversation changed to religion! There was a Christian, a Catholic, and then 4 LDS girls and 1 inactive girl, and we were discussing the differences between our religions. I was really proud of myself because they would ask me questions, and i was able to answer every single one of them, and explain to them in detail what our views on some things were! Everyone (including myself) was impressed with my knowledge! I had no idea what to say, and i'm sure the spirit was guiding me. I helped my LDS friends understand some of our beliefs better, and i helped teach the gospel to 2 non-members! My inactive friend was also really touched! It made me feel really good to be able to share the gospel. Living where i live, with so many members, it is sometimes hard to have a missionary experience, but i got one that night, and i was very proud of myself for being a good example and listening to the spirit. It makes me want to go on a mission even more.
way to go.
well done. I find that when I do this it also strengthens my own testimony as I find taht when I'm explainig things to others, they become clearer to me as well, and my faith becomes stronger.

missypotter

May 22nd, 2006, 7:02 pm

Then we had to have a discussi0on on how x is unable to make decisions or choices and so can't be judged as we will be. It was really hard for my eldest to accept.
She's just come to me and said ' I feel really strange, like somethings not right. ' All I could do was say to her that she needed top pray to help her understand.

This is such a deep subject for even adults to understand. I think you did a great job of explaining the situation. Perhaps she would understand if you related it to babies or children under the age of 8. People with mental disabilities fall into the same catagory. Your eldest might not understand exactly how a mental disability effects the way a person thinks. I would also ask her what exactly she is struggling with. Sometimes children see things differetly than adults and it may be a matter of perspective. Good luck.

snowgoose

May 22nd, 2006, 11:18 pm

I did as well, she has a sister of 2 and one of 3. I asked her if the youngest had any idea she was doing something wrong...no, then I asked if the middle one had any idea, sometimes. Then I sadi what about you, she looked sheepish (!) and said yes.
I said that's the difference between you and this girl. She is like your youngest sister, but unlike youngest she is never going to grow up inside her head, she is always going to be that young inside.
She was struggling with the 'fairness' of her friend not being judged the same way that she would be. I think she also somehow thought she was less of a special person because she was going to be judged.
I had to explain all about Lucifer and Jesus in the pre existence, and how we there was a battle and how we chose Jesus and that meant we were all special.
She doesn't seem to be dwelling on it, so hopefully she understood enough to calm herself.
Partly I was worried about how what she was saying was affecting th egir;'s mother. As my daughter was saying it wasn't fair, she just looked so sad, that I knew I had to talk to my daughter when they weren't there. I explained that even though this girl's mother knew she wouldn't be judged, she was still worried about her because while she lives on this earth, she will need a lot of care, and her mother was worried about this.We also talked about other things connected with Downes. I wanted her to see that even though it seemed that this child was going to have it much easier, the reality is very different.

Pegasus

May 25th, 2006, 12:50 am

Wow. I'd never even thought about a child's perception of being "less special." So many hard aspects of a discussion.

AchelRay

May 27th, 2006, 7:25 pm

On friday, we were having an officer party (i'm an SBO at my school) and somehow, the conversation changed to religion! There was a Christian, a Catholic, and then 4 LDS girls and 1 inactive girl, and we were discussing the differences between our religions. I was really proud of myself because they would ask me questions, and i was able to answer every single one of them, and explain to them in detail what our views on some things were! Everyone (including myself) was impressed with my knowledge! I had no idea what to say, and i'm sure the spirit was guiding me. I helped my LDS friends understand some of our beliefs better, and i helped teach the gospel to 2 non-members! My inactive friend was also really touched! It made me feel really good to be able to share the gospel. Living where i live, with so many members, it is sometimes hard to have a missionary experience, but i got one that night, and i was very proud of myself for being a good example and listening to the spirit. It makes me want to go on a mission even more.
Experiences like this are ones you want to remember. I don't get them very often because the area I live in is mostly LDS but I remember once when I was probably 10 or 11 and I am grateful that I was able to explain to a friend of mine.

I have been looking for a certain CTR ring for my little sister and I can't find it at any of the LDS providing stores (I don't know what else to call them). It's a teddy bear holding a heart that says CTR. If any of you could tell me where I could find it I'd appreciate it.

Pegasus

May 27th, 2006, 9:52 pm

I haven't seen that one. I assume you've already googled "CTR Rings"? That's the only thing I know to do.

Jenni Radcliffe

May 27th, 2006, 11:23 pm

Experiences like this are ones you want to remember. I don't get them very often because the area I live in is mostly LDS but I remember once when I was probably 10 or 11 and I am grateful that I was able to explain to a friend of mine
I live in a mostly LDS area as well, so that's another reason is was so cool to me!

Pegasus

May 28th, 2006, 3:52 am

Those experiences come in unexpected places. Most recently for me, I've been able to become friends with a woman who just recently returned to Church after twenty years of hard times, and I think we've helped each other and learned from each other (not just me her) quite a bit.

snowgoose

May 30th, 2006, 2:11 pm

aaargh. HAve spent 3 weeks sorting out VT companions.Sat with a map, a list of drivers and non drivers, pm and am visitors, in short I really tried. I have just got back from a weekend away and have a message on my answer machine telling me that they handed out the companions and visits on Sunday and there are some complaints.
I hereby promise that if I ever get released from this calling, I shall accpet whatever VT assignment I get , no matter how arduous, with a smile.It's horrible, you try really hard, and then it still goes pear shaped. Don't know how many complaints yet, don't know if I can fix it without redoing 90% of the list..................

Pegasus

May 30th, 2006, 6:02 pm

Well, I've obviously never been in charge of visiting teaching, or I never would have complained!
However, complaining got me a partner, and my partner is that lady I spoke of in the previous post, so that's a good thing.

snowgoose

May 30th, 2006, 7:49 pm

Pegasus

May 30th, 2006, 9:54 pm

Pegasus that's very different to the complaints I'm getting. :D I'm getting it's not fair, it's too this ,it's too that type,really niggly things.I prayed about what to do, I worked really hard at it, and now I feel really down.
I'm sorry you feel down. :( I wish I could pick you up.
The fact that you prayed and worked for these routes tells you you did the best you could, and Heavenly Father is pleased. Sometimes that's the best there is.
I was thinking about that with this piece I arranged for my ward choir. No one in that choir writes music. No one knows the hundreds of hours I've put into it, including the knitpicky little changes I put into it to make it work better after I'd already printed it out and copied it. Twice. It's hard not to have it appreciated. Then I remembered that Someone does appreciate it, and that's the most important thing.
My little anecdote probably doesn't help much. Hopefully people will stop complaining and just do their job.

missypotter

May 31st, 2006, 12:23 am

snowgoose

May 31st, 2006, 4:32 pm

Snowgoose, that is a difficult job. I think it is hard to understand unless you have done it yourself. I am RS Pres in our ward and I do the visiting teaching routes. They usually complain about them to my visiting teaching coordinator. She refers them to me and few of them complain to me. I pray about the changes and unless there is a serious problem I don't change things around. I don't believe in day or night routes. Everyone has someone who is less active or works. It is just the way it is. That's what weekends and nights are for. I believe visiting teaching is one of the most important things we do in the Church and there will be accountability for those in our charge.

The outgoing presidents said one thing to me and that was "I will visit teach anyone you want me to". It took about 3 months to realize the importance of that statement. We really need to love and include each other not just the easy ones. *Gets off soap box*
Not on a soap box! It's what it's supposed to be. When I joined the church, I was told that all callings are inspired, don't turn down a calling as it is Heavenly Father who wants you there and whilst you don't know why, you will probably do one day. VT is a calling, and there are going to be harder times, but as my very peeved RS president said to me on th e phone-'It's supposed to be a sacrifice.'
We've a meeting tonight and I know a few changes that I can make, but after that there is little else I can do apart from taking it all aprt and starting again, and what I drew up felt right so I'm not going to be doing that!

Pegasus

May 31st, 2006, 5:00 pm

We've a meeting tonight and I know a few changes that I can make, but after that there is little else I can do apart from taking it all aprt and starting again, and what I drew up felt right so I'm not going to be doing that!
Exactly. Don't. You already followed the Spirit.

snowgoose

June 1st, 2006, 3:14 pm

ohhh, there could be trouble ahead.
RS presidency seriously upset by attitude, Bishop upset by general antipathy!
It'd be funny if it wasn't so important, but have you ever noticed how when things go well for a while, peopel start to behave badly! ANd to think it's been goign on since the OT and people still fall into the trap and need a huge kick to get them thinking......

pixelPIRATE

June 1st, 2006, 3:35 pm

Lash Dresden

June 1st, 2006, 11:10 pm

I have a question (it might've been answered, but i cant read all 27 pages looking for it). In the bible, in Revelation chapter 22, it says:

Revelation 22: 18-20
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Did you know that the book of Revelations was not the last book written (chronologically) of the books in the Bible? That passage is referring to anyone without authority who tries to add to or take away from the Word of God.

In reference to that passage, how do you justify the writing of the book of mormon (especially the character of the writer, who had a shady past and recounted his vision multiply times with inconsitencies between the stories)? 1) Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon. He translated it from an ancient language by the gift and power of God. 2) Joseph Smith only had a "shady past" in the words of those who opposed him and had no regard for truth. 3) Not true. His recounting of the first vision was consistent. Trust me, when God speaks with someone face to face, that person isn't going to forget any of it.

Is it true that at one time there was a passage in the book of mormon claiming that black people got their color from being burnt in hell, and that they were basically rejected from God? But this passage was taken out due to the "unpopularity" of it's message? My friend watched a mormon "recruitment" movie from the 60's and it definately said that about black people. Nope. Not true. There are copies of the original printing of the Book of Mormon still in existence, so that one is easy to disprove. (Nor dos the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teach any such thing about people of color - and never has taught such a thing to the best of my knowledge, and I grew up in the church.)

And is it true that in it's first section of "scripture" is essentially discounts the Bible as a whole and claims it has been altered and that there is a need for the Book of Mormon because of the false teachings? Doesn't this completely contradict all the passages claiming that the Bible is the Holy Word of God? And, isn't this basically the same thing that Muhammed said when he created the religion of Islam? The complete title is "The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Note the term "another" No one has ever claimed that the Book of Mormon was supposed to replace the Bible - rather it's a supplement to it. I've never been taught that the Bible contains false teachings, either. We do believe that there are some errors in translation (intentional or untentional) over the years. One of the basic tenets of our religion is that "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

I don't remember the reference off the top of my head, but in the New Testament Christ said "other sheep have I, which are not of this fold. Them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there will be one fold and one shepherd." (Hopefully I quoted it correctly.) The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that the peoples whose story is told in the Book of Mormon are some of those "other sheep" that the Savior was talking about.

I don't know enough about the Muslim religion to respond to the question about Muhammed.
I'm in no way "attacking" the religion, but i would be intersted to hear the response from a practicing Latter-Day Saint. I've grown up in a Christian home, church, and school, and these are the things that they've told me about your religion. I know they could be biased, but that's why i'm asking you! :)

Any other questions? Ask away. :)

crofty

June 1st, 2006, 11:14 pm

Could you tell me the main differences between your religion and that of the protestant's?

Lash Dresden

June 1st, 2006, 11:24 pm

I quite frankly don't know a lot about the Protestant religion, so I don't think I can give you a fair answer. You may want to visit www.mormon.org (http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/0,8791,798-1,00.html) and see if you can find some answers there.

I'm sure there will be other members in the forums who will be better able to answer your questions than I am. :)

crofty

June 1st, 2006, 11:31 pm

ok, it is just i did hear your religion is stricter on religious rules than some other religions...

Lash Dresden

June 1st, 2006, 11:37 pm

ok, it is just i did hear your religion is stricter on religious rules than some other religions...
Like I said, I don't know a lot about other religions and their rules and practices, so I can't give a fair answer. I've requested some other members stop by and try to answer all your questions. :D

Pegasus

June 2nd, 2006, 1:22 am

Could you tell me the main differences between your religion and that of the protestant's?
I can tell you the main difference. Our church did not stem from the Protestant movement. I don't know how much you know about Martin Luther, but basically, he wrote down everything the Catholic church was doing wrong and nailed it to the door. From there, people began to start their own churches according to their own interpretation of the Bible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints started very differently. 14-year-old Joseph Smith was confused by the different interpretations of the Bible, especially in the light of the Bible passages that state that there is one faith and one baptism. He read the passage about asking of God if you lack wisdom. He went to a grove of trees to pray, and he asked of God. God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him and spoke to him. Jesus told him that none of the churches on the earth were true, that the Priesthood and vital doctrines had been lost with the death of the apostles. Joseph Smith was then trained and taught over the years by heavenly visitors. He was given a book, engraven upon gold plates, that is a record of the people who lived on the American continent in ancient times. When it was time, Heavenly Father gave Joseph the authority to once again establish the true church of Jesus Christ on the earth again.

Jessica

June 2nd, 2006, 1:29 am

I'd just like to remind people who are not LDS to respect the religion even if you don't believe in it. I'm sure everyone here who is LDS would respect your religion if the situation was reversed :)

pixelPIRATE

June 2nd, 2006, 3:17 am

Thankyou for answering my questions, Rapunzel. :) I do respect your religion (seeing as it has many similarities with my own).

Did you know that the book of Revelations was not the last book written (chronologically) of the books in the Bible? That passage is referring to anyone without authority who tries to add to or take away from the Word of God. Thats what I was saying. How do we know that Joseph Smith had the authority?

1) Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon. He translated it from an ancient language by the gift and power of God. 2) Joseph Smith only had a "shady past" in the words of those who opposed him and had no regard for truth. 3) Not true. His recounting of the first vision was consistent. Trust me, when God speaks with someone face to face, that person isn't going to forget any of it. I've seen several mormon websites admitting that there were different accounts, but accrediting it to the fact that he "remembered more" as he continued to tell about his vision... O_O I mean, if someone came back today and claimed he was a prophet, would you take him seriously? Homeless people claim to be Jesus all the time...

Nope. Not true. There are copies of the original printing of the Book of Mormon still in existence, so that one is easy to disprove. (Nor dos the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teach any such thing about people of color - and never has taught such a thing to the best of my knowledge, and I grew up in the church.) I did a bit of looking online and found these statements.

"Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence" (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21); "The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is nothing compared with that greater handicap. He is not permitted to receive the priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the Celestial Kingdom" (Elder George E. Richards). In 1978, however, the Mormon Church announced that God had lifted his curse from the African race."

Are these altogether wrong? Because everywhere i find online says that they believe the black man was cursed, etc.

The complete title is "The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Note the term "another" No one has ever claimed that the Book of Mormon was supposed to replace the Bible - rather it's a supplement to it. I've never been taught that the Bible contains false teachings, either. We do believe that there are some errors in translation (intentional or untentional) over the years. One of the basic tenets of our religion is that "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect;
the word of the LORD is flawless.
He is a shield
for all who take refuge in him.

Would Joseph Smith saying that the Bible is in flaw contradict these scriptures?

The book fo Mormon Says that Christ's second coming is to be preceded by a massive conversion of the American Indians to Christ through the Book of Mormon. These converted Indians will then exterminate those gentiles in the Americas who will not accept it. After that, the believing Indians and the Mormons will build the New Jerusalem where Christ will return to live (3 Nephi 16:11-16;7:35-42;3 Nephi 21:24-25;9:98-100).

Faith in the Book of Mormon thus becomes an added condition for salvation besides faith in Jesus Christ. Umm, does that mean I'm going to be exterminated? O_O

Doesn't that contradict everything Christ said in the Bible about only needing him for salvation? That there is one way through "the gate"--couldn't mormonism be percieved as an extra route? What about people who were believers before Joseph Smith came along? Are they going to hell because he hadn't yet revealed truth for them?

I don't remember the reference off the top of my head, but in the New Testament Christ said "other sheep have I, which are not of this fold. Them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there will be one fold and one shepherd." (Hopefully I quoted it correctly.) The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that the peoples whose story is told in the Book of Mormon are some of those "other sheep" that the Savior was talking about.

Here's the passage I think you were talking about:
John 10:14-17 (New International Version)
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

I think he's talking about people in like south america that haven't heard of the Bible, yet they will still be saved (I'm more of an inclusivist than an exclusivist, myself). They dont know God, but based on their revelations from nature around them they understand that there is some form of higher power. It could also be referencing people who died too young to come of understanding of christ (such as children who are aborted) or possibly those with extreme mental retardation that cannot understand salvation.

John 10:1-3 (New International Version)
1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Could mormonism be translated as a different path into the sheep pen? The only way into the pen is through the Shepard, Christ--it makes no alusion to prophets being a necessity for salvation. =\

Other places, Joseph Smith states that you must follow him to be saved or that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't enough:
-- There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188).
-- Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions) (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856).
-- Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
-- If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

The oddest one I've found yet:
-- Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).

O_O How does THAT work? The last thing I want is to be related to the devil himself--

I don't know enough about the Muslim religion to respond to the question about Muhammed. He esentially goes into a cave and had a vision from the angel Gabriel. The angel told him that the religion people had was very wrong, and that he needed to fix it. He had people write down what he heard for him (as he was illiterate) and spread his religion by conquering cities and violent raides.

The question is: What makes Joseph Smith's testimony of visions from God different from the vision Muhammed said he had from the angel Gabriel? Why not become Islamic rather than a member of the church of Latter-Day Saints?

Pegasus

June 2nd, 2006, 4:09 am

I'm sorry I can't help you with more. I don't feel comfortable in this setting. We've been down this road on several of those points before and it completely blew up.
All I can tell you is that I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet through the power of the Holy Ghost. This is the same way I know that the Book of Mormon and the Church itself are true. You should also know that we use the King James Version of the Bible, and that the Book of Mormon helps to clarify many things in that version of the Bible. The other sheep, we are told in the Book of Mormon, is, in fact, the people in the Americas. Heavenly Father does not favor one people over another; thus he visited more than one continent.
www.mormon.org is the best place to find official statements about our beliefs.

ElectricJello00

June 2nd, 2006, 4:15 am

I am LDS, and proud of it!:p

Pegasus

June 2nd, 2006, 4:29 am

"Beware of pride." ;)

You know what, it's June 1. I did my visiting teaching weeks ago and haven't called to report it. Oops.

Jessica

June 2nd, 2006, 6:10 am

For the purposes of this thread, I'd rather not see discussion of whether Smith was or was not a true prophet. The Mormons believe that he was and the rest of us can if nothing else respect him as a holy and devout man. :)

snowgoose

June 2nd, 2006, 12:10 pm

It comes down to faith which is intangible and unprovabel by any other means than the speakers heart. As LDS we are taught not to accept anything at face value, we are to pray and ask Heavenly Father if what we have been taught is true. We receive an answer and that is what we base our belief on.Children are taught to pray as soon as they are old enough to need to choose their own way.
We believ in Free Agency, that means you can choose , but it doesn't mean you can choose the outcome. We choose to believe that Joseph Smith translated the ancient scripts, he received no monetary reward for doing so, he was an illiterate farm boy and could not have made up or had knowledge of *** style or rhythm of writing that is used in the Book of Mormon. It has been shown to be the same as that of ancient Jewish/Greek text. Joseph had no way of knowing about those.
We do not discredit the Old Testament, or *** New Testament, we simply say they have been translated many times and SOME things have been mistranslated, we do use the King James Version- Article of Faith 8(sort of our mission statement) We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of GOd.
Article of Faith11- We claim the privilege of worshipping ALmight God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privildge,let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Inanswer to are we strciter than other christian churches...only in that we expect active LDS people to follow what Heavenly Father has asked of us and not be swayed by what the world thinks is accetpable. We do not change our morality values or beliefs becasue they are out of step with the world. When I was baptised I was adjured to be in the world but not part of it.
I know that I have prayed about all the things I have been asked to do, or not to do, and I know that I have received answers to my prayers.

crofty

June 2nd, 2006, 1:55 pm

Just to clarify: Are the Mormons racist? I was just reading back a few posts, and apparently they hold black people as cursed...

Pegasus

June 2nd, 2006, 2:08 pm

No, we're not racist. Any person who is racist is not a true Christian.
I'd like to move on from that now.

snowgoose

June 2nd, 2006, 2:50 pm

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
The question is: What makes Joseph Smith's testimony of visions from God different from the vision Muhammed said he had from the angel Gabriel? Why not become Islamic rather than a member of the church of Latter-Day Saints?

One vital difference, we are called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We believe that Jesus is the son of God. Not a prophet of Allah, not a forerunner of anybody else. He is the saviour. It is through faith in him that we may return to live with Heavenly Father. Article of Faith 3 - We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
_ Without Christ's atonement there is no salvation, but we have been given commandments , and to attain eternal glory, we have to follow the rules that Heavely Father has laid down, but without Christ's sacrifice it would not be possible to return to Heavenly Father.

I think he's talking about people in like south america that haven't heard of the Bible, yet they will still be saved (I'm more of an inclusivist than an exclusivist, myself). They dont know God, but based on their revelations from nature around them they understand that there is some form of higher power. It could also be referencing people who died too young to come of understanding of christ (such as children who are aborted) or possibly those with extreme mental retardation that cannot understand salvation.

-I have been discussing this on here a few pages back. My daughter is approaching her baptism, she , her friend and her friend's sister are in a group learing and discussing stuff. The sister has Downes. We believe that all will be judged according to their understanding. Sounds a very simple philosphy but think about it carefully, if you were never given the chance, or were unable to understand then that is what you will be judged on. Children are innocent, they will not be judged until they are old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong.If they die as babies, they have nothing to be judged on,they are innocent and pure.

Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
- You have taken this out of context. It is not by good works alone but...Matthew 25 33-46
'And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger. and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand. Depart from me , ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger , and ye took me not in:naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst,or a stranger, or naked, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then he shall answer them saying, Verily I say unto you,Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the leats of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlating punishment:but the righteouls into life eternal. 'Christ commanded that we love one another as we have loved him.Service is one way of showing that love.It would be of no benfit if we spent all day doing charitable works if our hearts were hard, good works alone will not save, but we will be judged on our compassion or lack of it.

re rascism-
No.We are all children of God. We are all brothers and sisters whether you choose to believe the same as me is irrelevant to me. I believe that you are a child of God, I am a child of God, you are my brother/sister. The colour of the skin is irrelevant.

-Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).

As already stated we believe we are all children of God, Jesus is our elder brother. Satan was a spirit child of God, but he chose his own path. For that he and his followers were turned out. Nobody who has ever lived on this earth chose to follow Satan at that time.Whether they choose to do so now, is free agency.

Pegasus, tut tut!!! Hope you've reported now... see the web is a good and useful tool you talked to me and remembered you hadn't done something....:clap:

crofty

June 2nd, 2006, 4:08 pm

Lash Dresden

June 2nd, 2006, 5:27 pm

I have just visited Mormon.org, and have come across some text stating that '' Gordon B. Hinckley'' is your ''chosen prophet today''. Could you tell me any more about him, and how you know he is a prophet of God?

crofty, unfortunately there are members on this forum who find The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints extremely offensive. Those of us here who are Church members are glad to answer general questions, but in the past we have found that discussion of specific matters of doctrine has raised argument and discord in the forum, which violates the forum rules.

I would suggest you continue to look around at www.mormon.com and also www.lds.com. www.mormon.com also has a link where you can e-mail specific questions and get correct answers.

Rap

Pegasus

June 2nd, 2006, 9:37 pm

Pegasus, tut tut!!! Hope you've reported now... see the web is a good and useful tool you talked to me and remembered you hadn't done something....:clap:
She actually had to call and leave a message while I was at kindergarten graduation, but I just called her back. :D

pixelPIRATE

June 3rd, 2006, 1:30 am

Final question: Do you believe that believing the words of Joseph Smith is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation? That it is not Christ alone that saves, but the words of this prophet?

Lash Dresden

June 3rd, 2006, 6:58 am

It's not a matter of "believing the words of Joseph Smith." It's about believing the word of God as revealed to his prophets (of which Joseph Smith was one, as surely as Moses and Abraham). Following all of God's teachings is necessary to obtain the highest degree of salvation. The Savior said, "in my Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so I would have told you." Everyone will not receive the same reward at the day of judgment. We will all be saved due to the atoning sacrifice of the Savior, but our eternal reward will also be based on our earthly decisions and actions.

crofty

June 3rd, 2006, 9:43 pm

Does one of these 'rewards' include Hell?

Pegasus

June 4th, 2006, 1:44 am

Paul talks briefly about the Three Degrees of Glory in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42. We learn more about it in modern revelation.
The traditional sense of "hell" is what we call Outer Darkness. This is where Satan and those who chose to follow him after having a sure knowledge dwell. By "sure knowledge" I mean those who have actually seen Jesus Christ and then chose Satan instead. Very rare indeed.
This is completely separate from the Three Degrees of Glory spoken of by Paul (Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial). Even the Terrestrial will be glorious in comparison to where we live now, which is on the Telestial level.

Jenni Radcliffe

June 5th, 2006, 2:13 am

whoa! the thread got pretty heated while i was gone!
I found myself on my knees a lot more than usual this week! It was our last week of school, and it was extremely stressful!!! We had to put the whole end of year assembly together, but then 2 days before it, our principal switched it all up on us, and all the 9th graders were gone the 2nd to last day of school, so we couldn't practice! (9th grade is in jr. high at my school) and then we had to finish up all our projects in office, finish up all our school work (I'm a 4.0 student, so i wasn't going to break that tradition) and then there was that unavoidable drama that starts to happen when you get this age! The only way i made it through this week was praying, reading my scriptures, and writing in my journal! Sometimes like can be so hard and confusing!
sorry for my rant!

snowgoose

June 5th, 2006, 8:03 pm

Jenni, feel free to rant...hope you felt better.
Also hope the assembly went well.
I personally feel there are a few dementors loose at the moment. I so do not want my calling. It is the only time I have asked whether they were sure they have got the right person. It is also the only time I have ever said I will accept this calling because I believe it's what Heavenly Father wants, but I am unhappy. I have been in tears today and am really struggling with it.Doing my best, but find it really hard as I don't do upsetting people well.....and everybody wants it their way and it's not possible.

missypotter

June 5th, 2006, 9:52 pm

I don't do upsetting people well.....and everybody wants it their way and it's not possible.
This is exactly what I spoke about in RS yesterday. Try to look at all the sisters who lovingly and willingly visit whomever you ask. Focus on the "rule" and not the "exception".
Visiting teaching is a glorious program and you will be blessed for being part of it. :p

There was an article in the SL Tribune on how women in Iraq are using the Relief Society visiting teaching program as a model of how to improve the lives of women in that country. If you can look it up, it is wonderful. I am sorry I don't have a link.

Lash Dresden

June 5th, 2006, 10:13 pm

There was an article in the SL Tribune on how women in Iraq are using the Relief Society visiting teaching program as a model of how to improve the lives of women in that country. If you can look it up, it is wonderful. I am sorry I don't have a link.

link (http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_3870190) :)

snowgoose

June 6th, 2006, 2:10 pm

thanks

bellaaddormenta

June 6th, 2006, 9:28 pm

wow i finally found the group YAY :D I lost it for a second. Due to the fact that i lost my password (grr...) ballroomchica is gone and now its bellaaddormenta(=sleeping beauty) anywho... Since i've been on last my ward has split again and i now only have 3 young women in my ward (my self and my sister included) but i honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I adore having a small young womens because lessons in church can be so much more personal which really really helps the spirit to be there!
Just thought I'd stop in and say hello agian so "hello"

Ricdorf

June 7th, 2006, 1:48 am

Hey, I found this discussion just yesterday, and I have to say I was very happy to find an LDS forum on a Harry Potter Fansite.

Anyway, I just thought I would pop some questions concerning the HP books, and see what everyone's LDS approved opinion is:

In book 6, after Harry is shown memories about Tom Riddle and his childhood, Dumbledore rebukes Harry for feeling sorry for Voldomort. Since LDS doctrine states that all men and women enter the world spotless and essentially good, it seems cruel for Dumbledore to act as if Voldemort is without hope, again, because LDS doctrine states that EVERYONE has hope, and EVERYONE can be forgiven and return to God. Even Voldomort. (though it would take one heck of a change of heart)
It may be that in Jo Rowling's world Voldomort is eternally and unchangably evil. Still, I don't like seeing my favorite character telling Harry that he should not pity or feel sorry for Voldomort, because to me Harry's sorrow reveals his powerful ability to love.
This may be foolish, but I feel insistant on believing that even Voldomort has hope, and that Harry's pity was justified.
Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

missypotter

June 7th, 2006, 4:33 am

It's funny you should bring this up. I was reading that very part yesterday and the exact same thought came to me. I felt so sorry for Tom Riddle that at age 11 he had chosen to make such terrible and evil choices. Why, when given his "special" talents did he choose to be cruel and mean instead of using them for good. I felt sorry for him.

Putting it in Gospel context he did have a chance for redemption then and on into his life. Now at this point, having killed 7 plus people, there is not much hope. Murder is the unforgiveable sin.

snowgoose

June 7th, 2006, 11:15 pm

I would hazard a guess that Dumbledore had already seen that Voldermort was abusing his powers against those weaker than himself to get what he wanted at the orpahange. Dumbledore did give him a chance to redeem himself, he brought him to Hogwarts so he could learn to use his powers for good, but Voldermort chose not to. Church doctrine wise, he used his free agency to do evil.
(I don't think you can use church teachings too closely as this is a children's book series where black is black and white is white and grey is a colour little understood (children's view of the world).)

AchelRay

June 7th, 2006, 11:28 pm

Since i've been on last my ward has split again and i now only have 3 young women in my ward (my self and my sister included) but i honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I adore having a small young womens because lessons in church can be so much more personal which really really helps the spirit to be there!
Just thought I'd stop in and say hello agian so "hello"

At the moment my beeehives class only has 4 girls and with one girl gone a lot we generally have 3 people in the class with 3 or 4 leaders. We're often outnubered by the leaders. However in July I'll move up to MIA maids (finally...) and there'll be about 9 girls until November then 3 move up to Laurels. I like having a smaller class for the same reason. We have to split into classes to get the small class size but I love the way you are able to get more involved in the lesson.

bellaaddormenta

June 8th, 2006, 3:32 am

i mean theres only 3 Young women total and i think 5 leaders (and only 4 young men) its a lil crazy sometimes but we all really are the very best of friends. Im suprisingly really excited about camp (which is next week) girls camp is one of my most favorite things about being in the young women's program. Plus this year im a YCL and get to help with the faith hike so im really excited!! Only im suppose to say somethings about the value knowledge, does any one have any ideas of things I could share?

Freaky

June 8th, 2006, 2:12 pm

crofty

June 8th, 2006, 8:44 pm

I'm not a LDS ( in fact i'm Anglican too) but i would just like to tell you that the World is actually no where near overpopulated. And the entire population of the World is actually due to decrease over the next few years, according to the UN.

Pegasus

June 9th, 2006, 5:09 am

Hi, I see you're all very happy to answer some questions, so I have a few. Honestly, if anything causes offence or you can't believe my pig ignorance, then I apologise.

My sister is snowgoose so you'd think I could ask her, but we hardly ever see each other so these things don't tend to come up.

I am a Christian, and I belong to the Church of England (Anglican). I have attended a couple of LDS services, when I have been visiting my sister, but probably no more than 3.

I have also had some contact with members of Snowgoose's congregation and the one thing I note is that large families do seem to be encouraged. In fact, if I remember correctly from my sister's wedding, it was one of the main things that were concentrated on.

Does it not concern you that the world is already overpopulated? Obviously it is entirely up to you how many children you choose to have, but certainly in my own life, I have given consideration to the fact that the number of children I have, does have an impact on life around me.

The other thing I have to admit to being curious about, is why there is a need for the woman (I don't know about the men) to wear the clothes that they do.

I also know that family trees are important and studied. I recently looked up the "mormon" website, and I think the term was "eternal family", but basically for want of a better turn of phrase, you could "convert" a deceased member of your family to become a LDS.

If that person had not chosen to be a LDS during their life, and particularly if they had been vocal about not wanting to be a LDS, how can it be possible that in death they can be converted...or am I totally getting the wrong end of the stick here?

As I said above, I am a member of the Anglican church and am very happy to be there. I believe that is where I should be, and on the same note, I believe that my sister is where she should be...but in that same vein, I'm not sure I would be entirely happy if I knew that once I had died, that I was going to be "changed".

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself very well. It sounds like I'm having a rant, but honestly I'm not meaning to.

I think my sister has had the most wonderful support from the church of LDS, she's had rather a rough time over the last 10 years or so, and they have been extremely good to her. I can't say that I've received the same support from my particular church in my own life, but I think that's the fault of the church I was attending, rather than which denomination I belonged to.

Both family size and baptisms for the dead can be explained by our concept of spirits. Our spirits have been around for a lot longer than the world we're living in. We all lived in heaven with Heavenly Father as spirits. We were presented with a plan: We could someday become like God, but first we would have to prove ourselves. We knew it wouldn't be easy, and we knew we would make mistakes. For this reason we would be given a Savior, One who was perfect and who could atone for all of our sins, so that we could return to Heavenly Father. Lucifer did not like this plan. He and one third of the host of heaven were cast out for rebellion. The rest of us chose to come to this earth.
Of course, it would not be much of a test if we could remember everything, so there is a veil between our mortal bodies and the spirit world, a veil that makes it so we don't remember anything that happened before we were born.
So all of these spirits need a body. We are told in the scriptures that "the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof." He gave us--all of his children--all the resources we need for life in this earth He created for us. He would not shortchange our resources because He would not shortchange His children. We have a sacred responsibility to raise up His children in righteousness, and we are told not to be selfish in limiting our families. Of course, the actual number of children a couple has is between them and the Lord, and physical and financial things are usually part of that consideration.
Now, it is unfair for those who did not have a chance to accept the gospel to not have a chance in the next life, but whether or not they choose to accept it is their decision. That decision is not for us to make, but for them to make. We do baptisms for the dead for all of our kin; we don't pick and choose according to our judgment. We do the work, and if they accept it, they accept it; if they don't, they don't. We keep genealogical records of what is done so we can keep track, but it in no way changes legal documents or anything like that; in other words, no one is going to "be changed into a Christian" against their will, and people won't look into those people's records and see that they were someone they really weren't. (Does that make sense?)
Modesty: We believe in maintaining modesty regardless of the trends around us. We feel that it shows respect for ourselves, others, and Heavenly Father.

snowgoose

June 9th, 2006, 3:02 pm

Does it not concern you that the world is already overpopulated? Obviously it is entirely up to you how many children you choose to have, but certainly in my own life, I have given consideration to the fact that the number of children I have, does have an impact on life around me.
it has been found time and time again that in recent years the number of children being born is far less than the number of people dying, so even though mum used to go on about the world being overpopulated, it isn't in reality. Certain areas are overpopulated for their food supply, but taken globally , the world is underpopulated at the moment.

If that person had not chosen to be a LDS during their life, and particularly if they had been vocal about not wanting to be a LDS, how can it be possible that in death they can be converted...or am I totally getting the wrong end of the stick here?
As I said above, I am a member of the Anglican church and am very happy to be there. I believe that is where I should be, and on the same note, I believe that my sister is where she should be...but in that same vein, I'm not sure I would be entirely happy if I knew that once I had died, that I was going to be "changed".

I don't know if you have ever heard em talk about free agency. That basically means you have the right to choose. That right was given to us by Christ. We can choose whatever we want. As an example, I can hand you a chocolate bar, you can choose whether to eat it or not. Baptism for the dead is just the same as that. you can choose whether you accept it or not.

Modesty: We believe in maintaining modesty regardless of the trends around us. We feel that it shows respect for ourselves, others, and Heavenly Father.
women and men, we boil, so do they!!!!ot. Baptism for the dead is just the same as that. you can choose whether you accept it or not.

Pegasus did an excellent job so I'm not adding anything else, but always feel free to ask me, I don't take offence easily.

Modesty: We believe in maintaining modesty regardless of the trends around us. We feel that it shows respect for ourselves, others, and Heavenly Father.
women and men, we boil, so do they!!!!