Tracking Down the Remaining Horcruxes v4.0

Hear ye! Hear ye! Welcome One and All to version 4.0!

This thread will further the discussion on possible hiding places for Voldemort's remaining Horcruxes.


the rules

This thread exists to debate a particular aspect of the Horcrux, in this case locations. What this thread is not is a place to come and insult, mock, degrade or put down members for their views. Those of you who wish to engage in such behaviour will have a single warning before you are removed from the forum altogether.

Engage the debate in the spirit in which it is meant to be debated.

Important: Please ensure your signature does not contain any kind of support to one group or mocks in any way an opposing idea relating to the Horcrux threads. This ensures fair play when debating. You are welcome to have your societies off site.


The previous versions can be found here:

Identifying and Tracking Down the Remaining Horcruxes (http:www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=65204) (version 1)
Tracking Down the Remaining Horcruxes (http:www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=69780) (version 2)
Tracking Down the Remaining Horcruxes (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=73429) (version 3)

Following Harry's summary and Dumbledore's confirmation:
"So, the diary's gone, the ring's gone. The cup, the locket, and the snake are still intact, and you think there might be a Horcrux that was once Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's?"

"An admirably succinct and accurate summary, yes," said DD
- we are looking for hiding places of these 4 objects.




Will they be hidden inside, outside, around, under, over, behind, betwixt, between, to, fro, far, wide, hither and yon:

Hogwarts, Albania, Egypt, Riddle House, caves, mountains, bunny holes, loose floor boards, chamber pots, cabinets, wand shops, tunnels, matresses, seasides, countrysides, dark forests, alleys, shrieking shacks, orphanages, dungeons, towers, sheds, over hill & dale, under water or in the air?

Let the sleuthing continue.

I think the cup is at hogwarts, then Harry will have to come back to hogwart at a point in his journey, and maybe he can talk to dumbledore's portrait. what do you think?

I think the cup is at hogwarts, then Harry will have to come back to hogwart at a point in his journey, and maybe he can talk to dumbledore's portrait. what do you think?Is there any clue in the books that makes you think that? The cup is a known historical artefact and Dumbledore has suspected that it is a Horcrux for some time, otherwise it might have been fun to speculate that it was hidden in full view in the Hogwart's trophy room. But Tom didn't obtain the cup until after he left school. Could he have brought it back to Hogwarts and hidden it there without Dumbledore knowing?

Could be, but Harry may have to come back to Hogwarts whether the cup is there or not. There is the library, which will be a huge resource even if the school is closed, the room of requirement, and, as you say, Dumbledore's portrait, not to mention the Penseive.

I think the cup is at hogwarts, then Harry will have to come back to hogwart at a point in his journey, and maybe he can talk to dumbledore's portrait. what do you think?

I think that something may be at Hogwarts. But it may not be the cup. I am thinking that it could be the Ravenclaw Horcrux... it could be the mirror of Erised. Previous posters on this topic, as well as other Horcrux topics, have said that Ravenclaw's object may be the Mirror of Erised... because one of the things described about the mirror was it's claw like feet. And claws, being a connection to Ravenclaw.

Another item, could be the Gryffindor Sword... it was owned by Godric Gryffindor and Voldemort was looking for things owned once by the four founders of Hogwarts...

The problem with any of the Horcruxes being at Hogwarts, is that Voldemort had left school before finding and making most of them. He returned to Hogwarts only once, and Dumbledore was keeping a close eye on him that time. Of course, it would be in good literary tradition for the final Horcrux to have been under Harry's nose all the time. Is there any particular object at Hogwarts that has been mentioned several times in passing without actually having a function in the story yet?

I don't know about particular objects, but Voldemort was not in the school only once: he was in there for at least a whole year while he was possessing Quirrel. If voldemort wanted to hide something in Hogwarts he could have done it, but I doubt that he would simply because of how protected the two Positively Known Horcruxes were.

The problem with any of the Horcruxes being at Hogwarts, is that Voldemort had left school before finding and making most of them.
I don't know, it could be that voldemort left it in another place but for destiny circunstances it ended up in hogwarts and as you say it would be in good literary tradition.

I think the cup is at hogwarts, then Harry will have to come back to hogwart at a point in his journey, and maybe he can talk to dumbledore's portrait. what do you think?

Whether or not it is the cup, I do think that Harry will come back to Hogwarts at least once in Book 7, simply because I just can't imagine a Harry Potter book in which we never see the place! Assuming that all of the Horcrux locations hold some sort of significance for Voldemort, I can't imagine a better hiding place location for him to use than the place where he first began to develop his magical abilities. There are a couple points I would make regarding Hogwarts as a possible Horcrux location.

First, I find it very odd that Tom Riddle came back to Hogwarts to request a teaching position he knew Dumbledore would not give him...I think he had an alterior motive for going to Hogwarts, and it could have been either to hide a Horcrux or to look at possible locations for hiding one. The reason also could have been to try to obtain an item to turn into a Horcrux, but that isn't for this thread!

Second, I think there are some great hiding places at Hogwarts that he could have used. The most likely one from my point of view is the Room of Requirement. In HBP, we were introduced to a "version" of the RoR in which there were countless hidden objects that had been stored there. It makes sense to me that there could be a Horcrux buried somewhere in amongst the mess, and it would likely be very well hidden there. If, as you suggest, Hufflepuff's cup is located at Hogwarts, I think the trophy room could be a good location. I don't have the time to look up the exact description right now, but I believe it was described in Book 1 as basically a large room filled with various cups and trophies. This would be a good place for Voldemort to hide a Horcrux in plain sight, although one would think that perhaps Dumbledore or someone else would have stumbled upon it at some point.

If Riddle/Voldemort was not able to hide a Horcrux within Hogwarts itself, then I think we can look for one in the surrounding area; perhaps in the Forbidden Forest, Hogsmeade, or the supposed graveyard that exists at Hogwarts (if there is one...JKR implied there might be one in an interview).

If Voldemort had been desperate to put a Horcrux in Hogwarts he could have done at any time while possessing Quirrel. However, I don't think he would have for the same reason I don't think a Horcrux will be found in Egypt: it's far too exposed. In Hogwarts there are hundreds of students about, and the most powerful Witches and Wizards in the UK are there, just like Egypt is swarming with cursebreakers.

I think Voldemort was too busy finding the Stone to worry about hiding horcruxes while he was possessing Quirrel. Anyway, he didn't kill anyone that year, so the best he could have done was to find a new hiding place for an old Horcrux, and that seems unlikely to me.

But it would have been difficult for Voldemort to hide anything during the other visit. Dumbledore was probably having him kept an eye on the whole time he was in the grounds since he suspected he was up to something. The Room of Requirement is interesting though, what did we see in there (in the "Hiding" version)?

All objects in the "Hiding" Version of the room of requirement

Broken furniture
Thousands of Books
Fanged Frisbees
Winged Catapults
Bottles of congealed potion
Hats
Jewels
Cloaks
Dragon Eggshells
Bottles with evily shimmering contents
Rusting swords
A Bloodstained Axe
Stuffed Troll
Broken Vanishing Cabinet
Large Cuboard (acid damaged) containing a Quintaped Skeleton, in Cage
Chipped bust of an Ugly Warlock
Dusty Old Wig
Tarnished Tiara

It seems that every student who ever knew about the RoR has hidden something in there! Don't you think Voldemort would have a bit more style? One was hidden in his "ancestral home", another in a bowl of potion in the middle of a lake full of inferi in a cave with a hidden entrance within another cave that could only be entered by swimming. Dumping one in the RoR just doens't have the same panache!

Disclaimer: what follows is my opinion only and is supported by not much canon.

Diary
*found* in the possession of Mr Malfoy who smuggled it into Hogwarts via Ginny. Destroyed by a basilisk fang (impaled on its own sword anyone?)

Ring
*found* in the Gaunt hovel protected by a nasty curse

Those were the easy ones...

Locket
I think we can safely assume that it was in the cave and that RAB didn't put a fake locket in the basin in place of another Horcrux object. Worth noting for a pattern is that it was surrounded by water (Slytherin's element) and protected by a potion that may have echoed the words of the children tortured in the cave.

As to where it is now, there is a reasonably hot trail leading to/from 12 Grimmauld Place and possibly involving Kreacher and Mundungus.

Cup
Not such a hot trail here, but much speculation about plants/earth hiding it due to the Hufflepuff connection. My favourite theory for its location is within Hufflepuff's home valley, which I speculate is Brockdale based solely on the etymology of that word.

Snake
(Assuming she is one - I think she is)
Logic says 'hanging around Voldemort', perhaps that's too simple. Maybe she's hanging around Slytherin's ancestral home (if that wasn't Little Hangleton). If Little Hangleton isn't in the fens (which aren't 200 miles from anywhere in Surrey for a start), then the place I'd start is Ely. I can see Slytherin making his home on an island town surrounded by watery fenland.

Something of Gryffindor's/Ravenclaw's
(Ravenclaw object being the favourite)
I think the location of this Horcrux will also be in a founder's neck of the woods: that would be Godric's Hollow or a glen somewhere in Scotland. I'm warming to Argyllshire, even though I wasn't that convinced when I suggested it: the idea (forget who had it) that PoA showed us 'where' rather than 'what' is tipping the scales for me - the Fat Lady hid in a map of Argyllshire when Sirius attacked.

That's interesting, and the theories are perfectly legitimate as we have very little canon for any of this. My theory, though, is that the cup will be hidden somewhere in Europe (for example, Albania because Voldemort knew it well enough to hide there) as a refference to the whole grail legend. As for ravenclaw, I have no idea.

What about the fact that Nagini might not be a Horcrux... what if Gryffindor and Ravenclaw items are Horcruxes... seeing that Riddle liked trophies and he liked stuff to do with the four founders...

There also is the fact that maybe Riddle (like most Slytherins) just didn't like Gryffindor, so he didn't make a Horcrux out of an item that belonged to Gryffindor

Wait, we're accidently branching into the "identifying" thread now, aren't we. Darn. Anyway, about locations as oppossed to identities: I think that the cup will be in Europe somewhere and the Ravenclaw item will be in the orphanage, because that is the only spot from Voldemort's childhood we have not seen thouroughly investigated yet.

Wait, we're accidently branching into the "identifying" thread now, aren't we. Darn. Anyway, about locations as oppossed to identities: I think that the cup will be in Europe somewhere and the Ravenclaw item will be in the orphanage, because that is the only spot from Voldemort's childhood we have not seen thouroughly investigated yet.

Yeah, I sorta was talking about the identification of it... but if Nagini is not a Horcrux, that would add the Gryffindor AND the Ravenclaw Horcrux to the list of finding em... but I think one of them is at Hogwarts... like I said before, it could be the Mirror of Erised or the Gryffindor Sword... both residing at Hogwarts right now...

I agree with the part about the orphanage. So here are my guesses.
1.) Diary - destroyed
2.) Ring - destroyed
3.) Amultet - destroyed by Regulus Black (wild goose chase ensues looking for it though)
4.) Cup - Orphanage
5.) Something of Ravenclaw's - buried with Voldemort's father/ or in the Riddle House
6.) Snake - near Voldemort

But it would have been difficult for Voldemort to hide anything during the other visit. Dumbledore was probably having him kept an eye on the whole time he was in the grounds since he suspected he was up to something. The Room of Requirement is interesting though, what did we see in there (in the "Hiding" version)?

All objects in the "Hiding" Version of the room of requirement

Broken furniture
Thousands of Books
Fanged Frisbees
Winged Catapults
Bottles of congealed potion
Hats
Jewels
Cloaks
Dragon Eggshells
Bottles with evily shimmering contents
Rusting swords
A Bloodstained Axe
Stuffed Troll
Broken Vanishing Cabinet
Large Cuboard (acid damaged) containing a Quintaped Skeleton, in Cage
Chipped bust of an Ugly Warlock
Dusty Old Wig
Tarnished TiaraOk there where dragon eggshells, I missed that and what is more if there are eggshells then what happened to the dragons. I think the dragon eggshells might actually be a clue to the fact that there might be dragons in that room guarding a horcrux perhaps. Do you think Basilisk eggshells are as big as dragon eggs? I mean why would they throw dragon eggshells into the room? Something of Ravenclaw might have been left in that room after use though this would mean that the room of requirements was created by the founders for storage.

I agree with the part about the orphanage. So here are my guesses.
1.) Diary - destroyed
2.) Ring - destroyed
3.) Amultet - destroyed by Regulus Black (wild goose chase ensues looking for it though)
4.) Cup - Orphanage
5.) Something of Ravenclaw's - buried with Voldemort's father/ or in the Riddle House
6.) Snake - near Voldemort

I will agree that the amulet was destroyed... but Harry won't know that. I believe he will first try to find out who R.A.B was... and then search for the amulet... but he finds out it was destroyed... and it was a big waste of time...

I don't know about particular objects, but Voldemort was not in the school only once: he was in there for at least a whole year while he was possessing Quirrel. If voldemort wanted to hide something in Hogwarts he could have done it, but I doubt that he would simply because of how protected the two Positively Known Horcruxes were.
and you also have to remember that Voly is not too likely to trust anyone with his Horocrux. The only one that might not have been hidden is one that he had intended to hide at Godrick's Hollow. I was waffling on him planning to hide one there, because he did not plan on killing James and Lily, but who did he think he was kidding, he probobly would have used Lily to get information and she would have ended up like the Longbottoms did or he would have killed them.
Any other Horocrux would have already been hidden, and Voldy would not have risked removing it from it's spot and being detected.
As for making another one between GH and Quirrelmort, he did not have enough streangth and had not murdered anyone himself, although it could be argued that the pieces from a murder he had previously committed was used (I think all the pieces but the main were destroyed at GH and that is what destroyed Voldy's body, not the AK curse).

Ok there where dragon eggshells, I missed that and what is more if there are eggshells then what happened to the dragons. I think the dragon eggshells might actually be a clue to the fact that there might be dragons in that room guarding a horcrux perhaps. Do you think Basilisk eggshells are as big as dragon eggs? I mean why would they throw dragon eggshells into the room? Something of Ravenclaw might have been left in that room after use though this would mean that the room of requirements was created by the founders for storage.
That is a good question. If they were Basalisk egg shells, instead of Dragon Egshells, they are used to make the PS/SS, so it is possible that someone was also using that room to try and make an immortality potion.
That leads us back to Romaina and Charlie and the Dragons. Voldy must have had access to dragons in order to give one to Hagrid, and Romania is a good sorce of dragons.

1. Slughorn tells Riddle that, "the soul is supposed to remain intact and whole. Splitting it is an act of violation, it is against nature." HBP, Ch.23

2. The Diary was found by Harry exactly in the spot that the innocent Myrtle the Turtle was killed by the basilisk. (regardless of where Voldie intentionally hid it).

3. The Gaunt Ring was found in the spot that Morphin, the repulsive innocent, was arrested & erroneously confessed to the murder of the Riddles. Also the site where the ring was stolen from Morphin.

4. The two horcrux's found to date have been found at the site of Voldie crimes against the innocent, crimes which relate to that particular horcrux, (whether or not they were the horcrux creation murder).

5. These found horcrux's have been destroyed.

6. The locket was supposed to be in the cave where Riddle tortured 2 children. It actually is, or has been sighted, at 12 Grimmauld, home of RAB who is probably dead due to Voldie.

7. The theory, Nature Abhors a Horcrux, is that the remaining horcrux's will be found at the sight of Voldie's crimes relating to the horcrux (not necessarily the horcrux creation murder), because NATURE is striking back, and trying to eliminate the horcrux's, so by weird twists & turns, these horcrux's will END UP at the site where the evilness resonates, to cure the fault, so to speak.

I suggest these locations based on this of:
- Hokey the house elf (Horcrux-Key) (so unfair to a loyal house - elf!)
- Billy Stubb's rabbit at the orphanage (nasty!)
- Cedric Diggory - did not deserve to die in graveyard, and
- "personal" crimes of Voldemorts , i.e. Dorcas Meadowes, ?Amelia Bones.
- also where Voldie learned to talk to snakes (the childhood countryside location).
- Hagrid's Hut (Hagrid being an innocent victim of Voldie - COS)

There are TONS of good locations tho'.
Egypt & Albania for some foreign air.
Azkhaban defended by dementors - wild wild location !!!
Riddle house defended by Nagini - great ! Bryce - why Bryce - victimized twice?

The one I really am looking foward too is Hufflepuff's cup though: dozens of replicas, each filled with undetectable poisons, and only one correct one, and you need to drink from the right one: "He chose . . . poorly". A thousand years have not robbed that knight of his evil sense of humor.

What is this story? Sounds great ! Potions are Slytherin tho', I'm thinking plants or buried with Hufflepuff & Herbology, or as a known treasure, in a vault at Gringotts, or buried at the Burrow, or even in the lake, location suggested by Tarot, not potterverse.
__________________

I think Godric's Hollow might be an excellent location for one...possible the Cup...that
would make the 1st 2 horcrux's found fast in the next book (locket at grimmauld place, cup at the Hollow)...bearing in mind harry still has to find the last unknown one, and he
has no idea where to start, he will need to go back to school to begin the search...and
i figure this will take a good bit of time in the next book.


--Sarakiel

Well, maybe James and Lily had a Horcrux... so, maybe there is one at Godric's Hollow.. I was thinking that Voldemort killed Lily for another reason... she didn't have to die... maybe she was protecting a Horcrux as well as Harry... And I don't mean Harry is a Horcrux!

Here are those Tarot images of the Ace of Cups, which is why I can't eliminate the lake.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27562 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27561

Just for reference, here are my biggest guns on Egypt.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27410

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27409

And finally the tarot card for Judgment (Egyptian Deck). One theory on the tarot thread is that Book 7 will be the remaining Tarot cards, starting at 17 for Harry's age (16 was the Tower !), so that the remaining cards will be:

XVII STAR (sometimes called Seer)
XVIII MOON (eek re Lupin?)
XIX SUN (the rune on Harry's head - the scar - symbolizes SUN, so does a Phoenix)
XX JUDGMENT
XI WORLD

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27543

Something else that Burrows is a Toad.

Well, maybe James and Lily had a Horcrux... so, maybe there is one at Godric's Hollow.. I was thinking that Voldemort killed Lily for another reason... she didn't have to die... maybe she was protecting a Horcrux as well as Harry... And I don't mean Harry is a Horcrux!
The only problem with James and Lily having a Horcrux is that they would have had to commit murder and know the Encasement Spell for that to have happened. James, especially, abhorred the Dark Arts - as seen in "Snape's Worst Memory". I also can't see Lily going down this road either.

Regarding the Trophy Room as being a possible location for Hufflepuff's Cup, I would like to think that Dumbledore would have known if it was there. I would like to believe that the Triwizard Cup is kept in the Trophy Room. Dumbledore suspected a Horcrux after the Diary. Also, when DD was trawling around for info on TR, once he found out that Heppy was murdered and the Locket and Cup disappeared, he would have checked the Trophy Room just to be sure.

Is it possible that Hogwarts itself could be turned into a Horcrux. The school does have a huge sentiment to Voldemort, and who would suspect the school as being a Horcrux.

Is it possible that Hogwarts itself could be turned into a Horcrux. The school does have a huge sentiment to Voldemort, and who would suspect the school as being a Horcrux.
Dumbledore would be one to suspect it first. He knew how much Hogwart's meant to Voldemort. Dumbledore would have recognized VM's "signature", just like he recognized VM's "signature" when he found the Gaunt Ring.

Please note, the rules of conduct for this thread have been updated to take into account signatures. They are effective immediately.

http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=3131518&postcount=1

I think Godric's Hollow might be an excellent location for one...possible the Cup...I love it as a source of clues too. And I think Harry will go back in time at GH to try to save his mother (fruitlessly) and merely end up saving himself, but I don't think a horcrux will be found there...

Harry, "but they could be anywhere in the world -- hidden -- buried or invisible --"

I also wanted to add, SUNKEN, as in the locket in the cave, and LOST IN TIME would be huge !!!!

Regarding the Trophy Room as being a possible location for Hufflepuff's Cup, I would like to think that Dumbledore would have known if it was there. I would like to believe that the Triwizard Cup is kept in the Trophy Room.
So you do support the smell theory of evil magic. But this doesn't match with your support of Gryffindor's sword as a horcrux, which is kept in Dumbledore's office (see other thread). I'm starting to feel traumatized... my role models are inconsistant &/or imperfect ... reality is bending ....

I
Harry, "but they could be anywhere in the world -- hidden -- buried or invisible --"

I also wanted to add, SUNKEN, as in the locket in the cave, and LOST IN TIME would be huge !!!!




:)..I'd like to add Transfigured as well..who's to say a cup is still a cup?

--Sarakiel

Is it possible that Hogwarts itself could be turned into a Horcrux. The school does have a huge sentiment to Voldemort, and who would suspect the school as being a Horcrux.

Ok, smell theory aside, & behaving strangely theory aside, a chance to re-post my Hogwarts is a giant timepiece theory :clap:

1. The moving staircases (142). What else has parts that move?

2. The vanishing step. (A leap step - like a leap year?)

3. Images in POA - Hogwarts as a mantle clock, Hogwarts clock, Harry & Hermione running into the clock back in time, camera rolling with the divination staircase, camera going through the clock into Hogwarts.

4. Fountain as time-piece - students going around the fountain.

5. Rowena Ravenclaw - all we know is on her wizard card - she designed Hogwarts ever changing floor plan. RoR (Rowena's Room?)

6. Might explain references to 12 in the books.


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27831


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27828


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27045


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27705

Then back to the fountain (Rowena = font?) and people moving 'round it.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27879

And here are the Tarot cards on Wheel of Fortune.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27605 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27880

Here's the list of places I made for the last thread with some changes:

Ravenclaw or Gryffindor item:
Dumbledore's office- if the Sorting Hat is a Horcrux (I'm leaning towards a “no” on that one, but it's still a possibility, since it did belong to Gryffindor)
The Room of Requirement
The Chamber of Secrets
The Trophy Room
Elsewhere in Hogwarts
Somewhere in Hogsmeade
The Riddle House
Hidden at Borgin and Burkes
Godric's Hollow
The Department of Mysteries
Albania, since Voldemort spent quite a bit of time there
The wardrobe at the orphanage, or somewhere else in the orphanage
Nottingham
Somewhere new

Hufflepuff's Cup
The Riddle House- I believe this is a strong possibility
Hepzibah Smith's house- also a strong possibility
The Room of Requirement
The Chamber of Secrets
The Trophy Room
Elsewhere in Hogwarts
Hidden at Borgin and Burkes- since Voldemort used to work there, could he have hidden an item there
The Department of Mysteries
Albania
Godric's Hollow
Wardrobe at the orphanage (or elsewhere at the orphanage)
Nottingham
Somewhere new

Slytherin's Locket
Subscribing to the theory that RAB is Regulus, the locket is likely at 12 Grimmauld Place
Somewhere in Hogsmeade
Knockturn or Diagon Alley
Stolen by Dung
Bought by Aberforth
Wardrobe
Somewhere new

Nagini
With Voldemort, where ever he is.

Great list. *unequivocal warm & fuzzies*.
Thanks for narrowing that down.

Posted by Morgoth:
Following Harry's summary and Dumbledore's confirmation:
HBP pg. 507"So, the diary's gone, the ring's gone. The cup, the locket, and the snake are still intact, and you think there might be a Horcrux that was once Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's?"

"An admirably succinct and accurate summary, yes," said DD

- we are looking for hiding places of these 4 objects.




Will they be hidden inside, outside, around, under, over, behind, betwixt, between, to, fro, far, wide, hither and yon:

Hogwarts, Albania, Egypt, Riddle House, caves, mountains, bunny holes, loose floor boards, chamber pots, cabinets, wand shops, tunnels, matresses, seasides, countrysides, dark forests, alleys, shrieking shacks, orphanages, dungeons, towers, sheds, over hill & dale, under water or in the air?

Let the sleuthing continue.
__________________
oh god, oh god we're all gonna die!

Harry Potter is the worst kind of organised religion. :lol::rotfl::lol:
Oh my goodness! That was the best laugh of today! :lol: Morgoth, you are great! Thanks!
:stops gasping for breath and goes off to get a drink of water:

So you do support the smell theory of evil magic. But this doesn't match with your support of Gryffindor's sword as a horcrux, which is kept in Dumbledore's office (see other thread). I'm starting to feel traumatized... my role models are inconsistant &/or imperfect ... reality is bending ....

Linda, I never believed that the Sword is a Horcrux. I also don't believe that Hufflepuff's Cup is in the Trophy Room.

I believe that Dumbledore would have detected TR's magical "signature" if either of those possiblities had occurred.

Oh my goodness! That was the best laugh of today! Morgoth, you are great! Thanks!
:stops gasping for breath and goes off to get a drink of water:

SageThyme wrote that in a previous thread. I just adopted it as I found it rather amusing as well. All credit to her. :)


(or do you mean my signature? Please owl)


Now back on topic.

:lol::rotfl::lol:
Oh my goodness! That was the best laugh of today! :lol: Morgoth, you are great! Thanks!
:stops gasping for breath and goes off to get a drink of water:

Thank you, cathairetic. Morgoth copied my first post from the previous thread. I tried to cover all possibilities. :D

Edit: Thanks, Matt (you got there first)

Here are those Tarot images of the Ace of Cups, which is why I can't eliminate the lake.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27562 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27561

[/CENTER]

Something else that Burrows is a Toad.
I hate to be a PRAT, but the picture with the mermaids takes us back to the Prefects Bathroom. Maybe he will get to the island through the picture of the Mermaid. What else was in the picture?

Although it's yet to occur here...

Can I respectfully request that if you are linking images, please either decrease their size or attach them as it's causing the narrow styles to mess up and is also unfair to dial up users of CoS. I won't make this a rule yet, but if need be we can and will make it one later on.

Thank you.

Maybe the Room of Requirement? To find what is lost or hidden.

A place at Hogwarts that would have been very secure but is now accessable is the home of the basalisk in the chamber of secrets. The chamber can only be open by a parsel tounge which is very rare and the basalisk would only take commands from the heir of Slytherin. Probably one of Voldemort's most secure locations.
I have pictured the final showdown happening in the Chamber of Secrets for several books now. Voldemort thinks of Hogwarts as home so where else would Voldemort try to rule the wizarding world from?
Which of the horcruxes is in the chamber of secrets is beyond my ken at this time.

not the RoR....it couldn't be .... the point with the Horcruxes, as far as i see it, is for Voldermort to display his "might", to really portray himself as the greatest wizard to have ever lived. he would not leave any of his horcruxes in plain sight if merely out of need to show the extent of his powers, and the variety he is capable of displaying, in concealing his horcruxes. i think everything from the objects he chooses to the concealments used on them are a blatant display of his superiority issues...

the locations would never be obvious, or if they were "obvious" (i.e. Hogwarts, Forbidden Forest) they would be heavily concealed as it is, simply because it would be to show that no one could ever break through his security, even if they possessed the mental acuity to figure out that he had created the Horcruxes and where they actually were.

i like the idea of Godric's Hollow being, at the very least, a clue to the location of the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux...
on the other hand however, i don't agree to the locket having been destroyed. after all, the destroyed Horcrux-ring was broken, whereas the locket is simply described as impossible to open, and not in any way tarnished.... i do think the tracking down of it will play a crucial part in the end....it's certainly no longer at 12 Grimmauld's Place, so could it be with 'Dung in Azkaban?

edit: lol lordharry beat me to the reply :) i like the idea of the Chamber of Secrets being pivotal in that it's a Slytherin heirloom as well as something that represents so much of what Voldermort perceives at his "greatness" - the parselmouth, the Heir of Slytherin, his cunningness in discovering it etc. i doubt he would have "planted" a Horcrux there, but i definitely find the idea of him coming back to Hogwarts (perhaps in connection to the CoS) highly appealing

And I think Harry will go back in time at GH to try to save his mother (fruitlessly) and merely end up saving himself, but I don't think a horcrux will be found there...
That would violate one of the most important of JKR's central themes about Lily's love sacrifice and will not be very likely. It would also end the love protection in Harry and also not be very likely.

i like the idea of Godric's Hollow being, at the very least, a clue to the location of the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux...
on the other hand however, i don't agree to the locket having been destroyed. after all, the destroyed Horcrux-ring was broken, whereas the locket is simply described as impossible to open, and not in any way tarnished.... i do think the tracking down of it will play a crucial part in the end....it's certainly no longer at 12 Grimmauld's Place, so could it be with 'Dung in Azkaban?



Or with Aberforth Dumbledore, perhaps (sorry if this has already been discussed...I haven't read through all of the threads concerning the issue).

The only problem with James and Lily having a Horcrux is that they would have had to commit murder and know the Encasement Spell for that to have happened. James, especially, abhorred the Dark Arts - as seen in "Snape's Worst Memory". I also can't see Lily going down this road either.

Regarding the Trophy Room as being a possible location for Hufflepuff's Cup, I would like to think that Dumbledore would have known if it was there. I would like to believe that the Triwizard Cup is kept in the Trophy Room. Dumbledore suspected a Horcrux after the Diary. Also, when DD was trawling around for info on TR, once he found out that Heppy was murdered and the Locket and Cup disappeared, he would have checked the Trophy Room just to be sure.
Regarding James and Lily having a Horcrux, I don't like the idea that THEY might have Horcruxes of their OWN souls. But keep in mind the War had been going on a fair number of years, and they were part of the Order. We know that OOTP members go on special ops missions. IE: Hagrid going to visit the Giants, OOTP guarding the DOM, etc. Perhaps Lily and James were on a special ops and uncovered one of LV's Horcruxes ... but were murdered before they were able to crack the spells ... or really tell anyone about it? Totally off the wall ... but perhaps that's the clue we'll find when Harry visits GH.

Regarding James and Lily having a Horcrux, I don't like the idea that THEY might have Horcruxes of their OWN souls. But keep in mind the War had been going on a fair number of years, and they were part of the Order. We know that OOTP members go on special ops missions. IE: Hagrid going to visit the Giants, OOTP guarding the DOM, etc. Perhaps Lily and James were on a special ops and uncovered one of LV's Horcruxes ... but were murdered before they were able to crack the spells ... or really tell anyone about it? Totally off the wall ... but perhaps that's the clue we'll find when Harry visits GH. That's an interesting idea.

That would violate one of the most important of JKR's central themes about Lily's love sacrifice and will not be very likely. It would also end the love protection in Harry and also not be very likely.
I agree that if Harry were to go back in "time" to GH that it would violate pretty much all that is Holy within Potterverse, however, I could see Harry or one of the Trio going Back in Time to figure out how to destroy a particular Horcrux. I don't think it will happen ... but perhaps a 15 minute loop or something would be more plausible than a 17 year trek back in time.

I agree that if Harry were to go back in "time" to GH that it would violate pretty much all that is Holy within Potterverse, however, I could see Harry or one of the Trio going Back in Time to figure out how to destroy a particular Horcrux. I don't think it will happen ... but perhaps a 15 minute loop or something would be more plausible than a 17 year trek back in time. That could work. I think that JKR deliberately destroyed all the time turners so we wouldn't have to turn our brains inside out trying to understand a time travel event.

Perhaps Lily and James were on a special ops and uncovered one of LV's Horcruxes ... but were murdered before they were able to crack the spells ... or really tell anyone about it? Totally off the wall ... but perhaps that's the clue we'll find when Harry visits GH.
That's an interesting idea.

It's certainly an Idea I've been working on in my head, since there's absolutely no Canon to back up any Pre-HP theories really ... it's all just fun and games. *smiles* However, another thought that I had. If Lily was looking up ancient blood magic spells ... who's to say she didn't come across the Horcrux spell herself ... OR the spell to DESTROY the soul within the Horcrux? Now THAT's a FUN idea!!!!

Regarding James and Lily having a Horcrux, I don't like the idea that THEY might have Horcruxes of their OWN souls. But keep in mind the War had been going on a fair number of years, and they were part of the Order. We know that OOTP members go on special ops missions. IE: Hagrid going to visit the Giants, OOTP guarding the DOM, etc. Perhaps Lily and James were on a special ops and uncovered one of LV's Horcruxes ... but were murdered before they were able to crack the spells ... or really tell anyone about it? Totally off the wall ... but perhaps that's the clue we'll find when Harry visits GH.

If either of them did have a Horcrux, then neither would have died. They would have vaporized like Voldemort did.

JKR stated that they are not just merely dead, they are most sincerely dead.

That could work. I think that JKR deliberately destroyed all the time turners so we wouldn't have to turn our brains inside out trying to understand a time travel event.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly, I don't think we'll come across time travel again. As a matter of fact, I thought that JKR had said something about needing to put that in for the storyline at THAT TIME. It's probably not going to be required for her plotline in the future book though. :)
(I promise i'll slow down ... let you catch up CBW :))

If either of them did have a Horcrux, then neither would have died.

JKR stated that they are not just merely dead, they are most sincerely dead.
So true ... so true, I merely repeated so that the flow into my theory was ... consistent ... ;)

Hi gang

Have been trying to get caught up again (the way all of you post it take hours but enjoy reading them all the same).

I still think Azkaban is one location, having the dementors as guards and everyone was afraid of them. Belletrix was there and didn't she say something like LV trusts me with....something... Could she have had an Hx, didn't know what it was but told to keep it safe no matter what?

If she and the others were there why didn't they get the "dementors kiss". Were the dementors "told" not to by LV, in case they were caught? Yes a lot were captured after LV became Vapormort but wasn't there some caught before??

I don't have any real convictions. Just a hunch.

i dont think that the trio will go back in time. as far as we can tell when you go back in time you have to make a change in which your former self before you go back wouldnt know about and then has to go back in time to change and then you have to wait for them to leave before showing yourself again by which time if they went back to see what happened on the night of the attack on godrics hollow they would be a good 32 years old by the time they got back prompting some very unusual questions maybe an aging potion but i dont know. so the way i see it they could use the pensieve and go back and observe harrys thoughts of the night. because as we know he has a flash of the night from the dementors bringing out his subconsious memory and even a consious one of the green light (avada kedavra) which could give them a short picture of what happened.


p.s. this is a reference to an earlier post and im too lazy to quote it
i just thought id put in an idea about it.

Belletrix was there and didn't she say something like LV trusts me with....something... Could she have had an HxI think that might have been a reference to the diary. If she had it before she went to Azkaban then Lucius could have ended up with it.

I think that might have been a reference to the diary. If she had it before she went to Azkaban then Lucius could have ended up with it.

i dont think so because belatrix was captured after voldemorts fall. and according to dumbledore lucius was in possesion of the diary from the start and was supposed to insert it in hogwarts when voldemort gives him the go.

but lucius as we know used the diary to attack and discredit the weasleys which backfired and thats why voldemort hates him and why i think voldemort will kill lucius when he is free if he still has enough supporters to lable some expendable.

it is possible that bellatrix has a horcrux but i dont think she was refering to the diary.

i dont think that the trio will go back in time. as far as we can tell when you go back in time you have to make a change in which your former self before you go back wouldnt know about and then has to go back in time to change and then you have to wait for them to leave before showing yourself again by which time if they went back to see what happened on the night of the attack on godrics hollow they would be a good 32 years old by the time they got back prompting some very unusual questions maybe an aging potion but i dont know. so the way i see it they could use the pensieve and go back and observe harrys thoughts of the night. because as we know he has a flash of the night from the dementors bringing out his subconsious memory and even a consious one of the green light (avada kedavra) which could give them a short picture of what happened.

Interesting idea... I guess a pensieve would show the actual events of the night that Harry witnessed, though JKR did say something about Harry not actually "seeing" his parents murdered because he was in his crib at the time, and thus, he didn't see the thestrals until 5th year.

How traumatic that would be for Harry, to have to witness his parents murders like that AGAIN...

well yes but we know that the pensieve doesnt just show the 1st persons memory it is totally impartial unless the memory has been tampered with.

so i guess you could start out watching harry then run to another room and watch what really happened while harry didnt see it. remember that we knew what James and Sirius were saying and doing even though it was Snape's memory in OOTP. and snape was too engrossed in his exam to be paying attention to what James and Sirius were doing.

The only problem with the pensieve is that harry doesnt know how to get out every time he's been pulled out by someone else like dumbledore and snape.

and yes i believe harry would not exactly enjoy watching his parents being murdered by someone he already hates so much for the murders of people like sirius and dumbledore indirectly and all of those deaths caused by fenrir greyback and death eaters are also indirectly related to him because he rallied them and gave them the orders.

I think the Mirror of Erised will show Harry the way to some if not all. Per Dumbledore, it shows us nothing more or less than the deepest, most desperate desire of our hearts. Harry's deepest desire, now, is eito find them and the MoE could either show where or give clues where.

but JKR said that he would see voldemort finished if he looked in the mirror and either way he doesnt know where the mirror is and on reference to it being a possession of ravenclaws and a horcrux not possible he had only encountered it once and that was when he possesed quirrel and he didnt know what it did anyway. i know you didnt say it was a horcrux but someone did before and im just responding to that.

I think the Mirror of Erised will show Harry the way to some if not all. Per Dumbledore, it shows us nothing more or less than the deepest, most desperate desire of our hearts. Harry's deepest desire, now, is eito find them and the MoE could either show where or give clues where.Yes, that is how the mirror is supposed to work, however we have this from JKR: MA: If Harry was to look in the Mirror of Erised at the end of book six, what would he see?

JKR: He would have to see Voldemort finished, dead gone, wouldn't he? Because he knows now that he will have no peace and no rest until this is accomplished.He wouldn't see Horcruxes, he wouldn't see how to find them, he'd see LV finished.

as i said and thank you for clearing that up king im kind of tired today and i dont want to search for 15 min to find the quote.

as i said and thank you for clearing that up king.You're welcome, Stickz!

I do think that Krum will somehow come into the picture, possible as Harry and Co. are moving around---trying to track Horcruxes.

My favorites for Horcrux locations: Albania, 12 Grimmauld Place {Kreacher's bedroom}...I think that Nagini is somewhere safely hidden with Pettigrew.

Albania looks great but the only objection i have is that maybe LV cant make anymore horcruxes for some reason or else whats the big deal about losing the diary he could just make another. im not sure about grimmauld place i figure dung would have raided the place and sold it unless by lucky chance kreacher saved it and is in the bedroom as you said.

but im fairly convinced that nagini is with LV he's probably more attatched to her than to any one of his death eaters. and i think shes the closest thing he has to a friend.

my favorites are Albania somewhere in london or knockturn alley (if dung sold the necklace) grimmauld place if he didnt, and azkaban as a magical stronghold.

well yes but we know that the pensieve doesnt just show the 1st persons memory it is totally impartial unless the memory has been tampered with.

so i guess you could start out watching harry then run to another room and watch what really happened while harry didnt see it. remember that we knew what James and Sirius were saying and doing even though it was Snape's memory in OOTP. and snape was too engrossed in his exam to be paying attention to what James and Sirius were doing.


:tu: You're right...thanks for clearing that up for me.

Albania looks great but the only objection i have is that maybe LV cant make anymore horcruxes for some reason or else whats the big deal about losing the diary he could just make another. im not sure about grimmauld place i figure dung would have raided the place and sold it unless by lucky chance kreacher saved it and is in the bedroom as you said.

but im fairly convinced that nagini is with LV he's probably more attatched to her than to any one of his death eaters. and i think shes the closest thing he has to a friend.

my favorites are Albania somewhere in london or knockturn alley (if dung sold the necklace) grimmauld place if he didnt, and azkaban as a magical stronghold.
I think Albania is still a good idea as it's possible that the Horcrux was hidden there by LV either during his globetrotting years, or just prior to his switch into Vapormort. I think that all horcruxes but the 6th were created prior to LV attacking Baby Harry, which is why he immediately made Nagini into a Horcrux when he regained his body.

im not sure about grimmauld place i figure dung would have raided the place and sold it unless by lucky chance kreacher saved it and is in the bedroom as you said.

my favorites are Albania somewhere in london or knockturn alley (if dung sold the necklace) grimmauld place if he didnt, and azkaban as a magical stronghold.

IIRC, the only scene that Mundungus is in in HBP is the scene in Hogsmeade where Harry catches him with Sirius' things. Unless Dung took the locket from Grimmauld Place, this scene is completely pointless. Remember that he was also meeting with Aberforth Dumbledore before Harry showed up, so it's possible that Aberforth bought the locket or knows more about it.

i agree with your conclusions the only way i see that dung could have sold it is to meet with aberforth later because he still ran off with the loot and he and aberforth could have easily arranged another meeting when thee wasnt a hogsmeade trip.

and i didnt say albania was out i just was saying that i had a minor objection nothing that cant be overcome.

by the way i like your signature:)

i agree with your conclusions and i didnt say albania was out i just was saying that i had a minor objection nothing that cant be overcome.
*winks* No Worries ... just wanted to clarify a reason for everyone out there ... :)

I do think that Krum will somehow come into the picture, possible as Harry and Co. are moving around---trying to track Horcruxes.

I agree, with this, didn't JKR say Krum would be back in future books? Since he wasn't around in 5 or 6 that means he will be there in 7, unless I misunderstood the quote.

I agree, with this, didn't JKR say Krum would be back in future books? Since he wasn't around in 5 or 6 that means he will be there in 7, unless I misunderstood the quote.
I agree as well, I know that Krum is from Bulgaria ... Perhaps there's a CLUE to a Horcrux in Bulgaria ... or perhaps there's a Horcrux there. Maybe RR was from Bulgaria. *shrugs* Krum will be important ... either for skill or for information.

i dont remember hearing anything about krum but i believe you.

i wonder how Krum will react to the ron and hermione relationship after finding out that his competitor wasnt harry but ron. i can just imagine.

oh well i dont think Krum will be a skill thing he is no doubt skilled but i think it more likly that Karkaroff told him something after he knew LV was back and Krum might mention it in his "penpal" letters to Hermione and she will tell the other 2.

we know Karkaroff cherished Krum and probably told him everything because he was probably the person karkaroff really respected after what he thinks of dumbledore for the supposed unfair play in the triwizards tournament.

i dont remember hearing anything about krum but i believe you.

i wonder how Krum will react to the ron and hermione relationship after finding out that his competitor wasnt harry but ron. i can just imagine.

oh well i dont think Krum will be a skill thing he is no doubt skilled but i think it more likly that Karkaroff told him something after he knew LV was back and Krum might mention it in his "penpal" letters to Hermione and she will tell the other 2
Ohhh brilliant ... and of course Ron will go all blustery like he does. That's a terrific idea, I'm sure that it would make finding a Horcrux in Eastern Europe a bit easier on Harry that way. :)

IIRC, the only scene that Mundungus is in in HBP is the scene in Hogsmeade where Harry catches him with Sirius' things. Unless Dung took the locket from Grimmauld Place, this scene is completely pointless. Remember that he was also meeting with Aberforth Dumbledore before Harry showed up, so it's possible that Aberforth bought the locket or knows more about it.Actually, ComicBookWorm pointed out a while back that we don't know for sure if Dung stole anything from 12 Grimmauld Place...

He could very well have been put into charge of removing the rubbish sacks from 12 Grimmauld Place, following the cleaning that everyone gave the house. If he didn't nick anything, then in all likelyhood the locket could very well remain at 12 Grimmauld Place. Kreacher was known to have nicked things from the rubbish sacks and I think JK gave us a hint that he did indeed take the locket:
In HBP, 'The Secret Riddle', young Tom's theiving is described as "magpie-like"...In OoP, 'Christmas on the Closed Ward', Kreacher's squirreling away of items he'd saved from the cleaning 'purge' of the house is called "magpielike".

As for Aberforth (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=2809022&postcount=25), well there is quite a mystery with his character...Sirius told us:"Why was Dung hiding from us?" asked Ron, sounding disappointed. "We'd've liked to seen him."
"He was banned from the Hog's Head twenty years ago," said Sirius, "and that barman's got a long memory."Which makes it odd that he was calmly speaking to Dung in Hogsmeade...

JK has also told us that:JKR: I see him primarily as someone who would be self-taught. However, he in his time had access to superb teachers at Hogwarts, so he was educated in the same way that everyone else is educated. Dumbledore's family would be a profitable line of inquiry, more profitable than sweet wrappers.
MA: His family?

JKR: Family, yes.

MA: Should we talk about that a little more?

JKR: No. But you can! [Laughter.]

Dung was stealing remember dumbledore said that he was aware that dung was treating harrys inheritance with light fingered contempt.

i think that made it clear but im supposed to be studying for physics (hate it!) and i dont have time to look it up.\

by the way im not too convinced that hes aberforth im just refering to him as such because most people do and the person who sparked my reponse named him as aberforth.

Dung was stealing remember dumbledore said that he was aware that dung was treating harrys inheritance with light fingered contempt.

i think that made it clear but im supposed to be studying for physics (hate it!) and i dont have time to look it up.Yes, that is what it says, because someone---Tonks, perhaps, had reported to DD about Harry confronting Dung. However, DD never actually spoke with Dung to hear his excuses or explanations. In fact, he said that Dung had gone into hiding, possibly for fear of DD. We just don't know for sure at this point.

My bet is that the locket remains at 12 Grimmuald Place, though.

i think so as well but im just trying not to rule out all possibilities for fear of being horribly wrong i try to keep an open mind because lots of theories' titles sound farfettched but if you read them they are possible.

i think that kreacher would know it was important and have nicked it and hidden it very very carefully if he knew it once belonged to salazar slytherin.

Actually, ComicBookWorm pointed out a while back that we don't know for sure if Dung stole anything from 12 Grimmauld Place...

He could very well have been put into charge of removing the rubbish sacks from 12 Grimmauld Place, following the cleaning that everyone gave the house. If he didn't nick anything, then in all likelyhood the locket could very well remain at 12 Grimmauld Place. Kreacher was known to have nicked things from the rubbish sacks and I think JK gave us a hint that he did indeed take the locket:
In HBP, 'The Secret Riddle', young Tom's theiving is described as "magpie-like"...In OoP, 'Christmas on the Closed Ward', Kreacher's squirreling away of items he'd saved from the cleaning 'purge' of the house is called "magpielike".

As for Aberforth (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=2809022&postcount=25), well there is quite a mystery with his character...Sirius told us:"Why was Dung hiding from us?" asked Ron, sounding disappointed. "We'd've liked to seen him."
"He was banned from the Hog's Head twenty years ago," said Sirius, "and that barman's got a long memory."Which makes it odd that he was calmly speaking to Dung in Hogsmeade...

JK has also told us that:JKR: I see him primarily as someone who would be self-taught. However, he in his time had access to superb teachers at Hogwarts, so he was educated in the same way that everyone else is educated. Dumbledore's family would be a profitable line of inquiry, more profitable than sweet wrappers.
MA: His family?

JKR: Family, yes.

MA: Should we talk about that a little more?

JKR: No. But you can! [Laughter.]

Thanks for the quotes and such. While there is the possibility that Dung didn't steal anything from #12, I just don't see what point there is to his one scene in HBP unless he did. Why put him in there at all unless he was taking Sirius' things, especially the horcrux. I could be dead wrong. Perhaps the scene is character development on Harry's part -- how he isn't scared of "grown-ups" anymore and is now openly active in regards to what he believes is wrong. However, I think this is evident in Madame Malkin's, among other places. Perhaps there is another reason for the short meeting in Hogsmeade, but I can't think of one.

Dung may know where the locket is. In fact he may have been giving it to Aberforth (either to innocently sell or pass on to Dumbledore).

well said thats what i was trying to get across that there was the possibility he didnt do anything wrong but i find it unlikly

plus why would dung assuming the bartender is aberforth sell him items from grimmauld place i thought aberforth was in the order from that old photo of moodys

oops sorry comic got the response before me but i was talking of the post before, dukes.

and if it was to pass on to DD why is he hiding from DD

Thanks for the quotes and such. While there is the possibility that Dung didn't steal anything from #12, I just don't see what point there is to his one scene in HBP unless he did. Why put him in there at all unless he was taking Sirius' things, especially the horcrux. I could be dead wrong. Perhaps the scene is character development on Harry's part -- how he isn't scared of "grown-ups" anymore and is now openly active in regards to what he believes is wrong. However, I think this is evident in Madame Malkin's, among other places. Perhaps there is another reason for the short meeting in Hogsmeade, but I can't think of one.Actually, I think that Aberforth is someone of interest---but nothing to do with the Horcruxes or their locations...but this is drifting off topic, so...

Any ideas for Horcrux locales---other than Albania and London, that is?

Albania Theory
1. LV may have spent time there during his Globetrotting days
2. LV Fled there twice, after he turned to Vapormort, and after trying to get the Stone.
3. Has the Dark Forest, a wealth of Earth based Hidey holes there.

Bulgaria Theory
1. Krum will have something to do of importance in book7
2. Karkaroff may have had information on LV
3. LV may have travelled there in order to glean information on immortality

Egypt Theory
1. Egyptians are preoccupied with death, the afterlife, obtaining immortality in the afterlife
2. Hieroglyphics of Birds
3. Egyptian artifact would fit criteria
4. Could be a location that LV visited during his Globetrotting period

England Theories:
1. Godric's Hollow
a. Will have information on a Horcrux that will lead Harry to one of them.
b. Harry's parents found a Horcrux but were unable to destroy it.

2. Hogwarts
a. LV hid something there when he applied for his job
b. LV had Draco hide something in the ROR.

3. Cliffs Near Hogsmeade
a. LV wasn't able to get something in Hogwarts so used HM instead
b. Might be a location for the end of one of the tunnels.

4. Riddle House
a. LV had access to the house
b. Sight of a significant death

5. Chamber of Secrets:
a. Multiple secrets?
b. Place of significance to LV
c. Connection to Slytherin
d. Under DD's nose (erm again)

6. Diagon Alley:

7. The Leaky Cauldron

8. The MOM

9. The Hog's Head

10. English Countryside and Coast

11. Nottingham
a. Where the Goblins were killed

Ok, smell theory aside, & behaving strangely theory aside, a chance to re-post my Hogwarts is a giant timepiece theory :clap:

1. The moving staircases (142). What else has parts that move?

2. The vanishing step. (A leap step - like a leap year?)

3. Images in POA - Hogwarts as a mantle clock, Hogwarts clock, Harry & Hermione running into the clock back in time, camera rolling with the divination staircase, camera going through the clock into Hogwarts.

4. Fountain as time-piece - students going around the fountain.

5. Rowena Ravenclaw - all we know is on her wizard card - she designed Hogwarts ever changing floor plan. RoR (Rowena's Room?)

6. Might explain references to 12 in the books.


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27831


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27828


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27045


http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27705

Then back to the fountain (Rowena = font?) and people moving 'round it.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27879

And here are the Tarot cards on Wheel of Fortune.

http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27605 http://www.cosforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27880So the clock is like an old big time turner built into the school and therefore belongs to one of the founders or all of them. Tom could have made the clock at Hogwarts a horcrux if it was capable of reversing time itself.

I think the two un-identified horcruxes are at Hogwarts, one being right in your face, the clock (you could be on to something here, the inventor of the first time turner could have been a founder, hence all the references to time) and the other being in the room of requirements as I feel something is guarding it due to those dragon eggs. I know Norbert was in PS but he was only a single dragon and there is more than one broken egg shell in that room of requirements.

I also like the Albania theory as Dumbledore was the one who told us all about Voldemort's journey to that country and it was strange just to mention that out of the blue.

Krum will be important ... either for skill or for information. Krum will be back because he's a good kisser. :love:

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Rowena Ravenclaw founded Ravenclaw house, symbol the EAGLE :rave: Krum, from Bulgaria, attending Durmstrang, wears a shirt with a double headed or bicephalic eagle on it. Bulgaria is in Eastern Balkans, on Black Sea.Krum's cane head is an EagleHeadmaster of Durmstrang, where they actually TEACH dark arts, was a DE.Schools have libraries. There are no Universities in Potterverse.Voldie fled to Albania twice in his history (total 10 + 2 years).Albania is in the Balkans on the West side.Charlie Weasley is in Romania with dragons. Romania borders BulgariaTransylvannia is a province of Romania and has Vampires.Norbert is with Charlie in Romania.

I sense a Balkan bypass in Book 7. So let us investigate.

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Indo-European people as well as Illyrians used it. This was long before Byzantine was created. Illyrian warriors who fought for Alexander used it. You can find the eagle in parts of Asia where Illyrian warriors who were fighting for Alexander settled and created cities, modern at that time.

Scythia was an area in Eurasia inhabited in ancient times by a group of Iranian people speaking Indo-Iranian languages, known as the Scythians. The location and extent of Scythia varied over time, from the Altai region where Mongolia, China, Russia, and Kazakhstan come together to the lower Danube river area and Bulgaria....The Scythians first appear in Assyrian annals as Ishkuzai... The Scythians were barbarians, Ghengis!!! This is where the name Sith Lord came from, in Star Wars.

Assyria - source of Trevor the Toad
Scythia - one eyed people who like Gryffins, Bulgaria, Moody
Illyria - I can't remember right now how they fit in except Voldie hideaway.The eagle has been used by many nations as a national symbol, depicting power, beauty and independence.
• Germany and Prussia. Prussia, and later Germany have use a black eagle as their national symbol.
• Ancient Egypt. The Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt used it as their seal
• Ancient Rome. The Romans used it on the standards of their armies.
• Byzantine Empire and Russia. After the fall of Rome, Constantinople chose a bicephalic golden eagle as Monarchy symbol... After the fall of Constantinople, the Russian Empire took the bicephalic eagle as own symbol.
• Charlemagne and Holy Roman Empire...
• Spain. ...on spanish shield untill 1978.
• First French Empire. Napoleon Bonaparte .
• Modern Europe. The eagle is also part of the coat of arms of Romania and the coat of arms and flag of Moldova. It is the emblem of "Shqipëria" or Land of the Eagles, which is known in English as Albania.
...From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I "ship" Albania.

I found a great website www.mythicalrealm.com and all the animals there we've seen!!! Except a Kragen (giant squid), a leviathan, and a ... some other kind of sea snake that looks just like the handles on the GOF, posiden. Even the three headed dog was there.

and I have another explanation for the dark nights in winter yet Albania!!!

The sun rises and sets lower on the horizon in winter - right?
Well if you are in a mountainous area, say, in a valley, the mountain range around you will cut off the sun for more hours a day because the sun is lower inthe sky. So it will be darker & colder.

Please don't attach images to your posts for the sake of it. Using CoS's bandwidth and server to host pictures which aren't aiding discussion isn't appreciated.

Thanks.

Eagles show up in most countries' mythologies because they are impressive birds.

Trevor is just a toad, but the Mimbulus mimbletonia is from Assyria. And it's rather tenuous to link it to anything just because the Scythians (a fearsome nomadic warrior people) were mentioned by the Assyrians (who were a prominent early civilization that kept detailed written records.)

The sun will still shine in a valley surrounded by mountains. The sun is 93 million miles overhead and is not blocked off by mountains. The issue isn't where on the horizon the sun appears to be sitting since the reduction in temperature is due to the angle the sun's rays are hitting the earth. And that angle is entirely due to latitude and time of year. The less direct the angle, the less sun's energy warms the land.

Large cities with high buildings that block the sun still get warm. The San Fernando valley in Los Angeles is hotter than the city because it gets less air circulation than other parts of the city.

What's the source for "Scythia - one-eyed people who like Gryffins?" :huh:

And Voldemort has not fled twice to Albania. Below I will list again all the Albania references. He fled there after SS/PS, and he returned to the UK when he found Wormtail right before GoF. That is one three-year visit. We do not know where he went after he left Hogwarts. And we do not know where he was when he took over Quirrell.
"He is with me wherever I go," said Quirrell quietly. "I met him when I traveled around the world. A foolish young man I was then, full of ridiculous ideas about good and evil." -- Quirrellmort (SS/PS) "He disappeared after leaving the school ... traveled far and wide ... sank so deeply into the Dark Arts, consorted with the very worst of our kind, underwent so many dangerous, magical transformations, that when he resurfaced as Lord Voldemort, he was barely recognizable." -- Dumbledore (CoS) "What interests me most," said Dumbledore gently, "is how Lord Voldemort managed to enchant Ginny, when my sources tell me he is currently in hiding in the forests of Albania." -- Dumbledore (CoS)

"You realize Bertha Jorkins has been missing for over a month now? Went on holiday to Albania and never came back?” -- Arthur Weasley (GoF)

"Bagman just keeps laughing and saying she probably misread the map and ended up in Australia instead of Albania." -- Percy (GoF)

“Exactly… she disappeared in Albania, and that's definitely where Voldemort was rumored to be last… and she would have known the Triwizard Tournament was coming up, wouldn't she?” -- Sirius (GoF)

No,” said Bagman, looking strained again. “I've got people looking, of course …” (About time, thought Harry) “and it's all very strange. She definitely arrived in Albania, because she met her second cousin there. And then she left the cousin's house to go south and see an aunt… and she seems to have vanished without trace en route." -- Ludo Bagman (Gof)

“And then, not even a year ago, when I had almost abandoned hope, it happened at last… a servant returned to me. Wormtail here, who had faked his own death to escape justice, was driven out of hiding by those he had once counted friends, and decided to return to his master. He sought me in the country where it had long been rumored I was hiding… helped, of course, by the rats he met along the way. Wormtail has a curious affinity with rats, do you not, Wormtail? His filthy little friends told him there was a place, deep in an Albanian forest, that they avoided, where small animals like themselves had met their deaths by a dark shadow that possessed them…" -- Voldemort (GoF)

“He arrived at our house late one night in the arms of his servant Wormtail. My master had found out that I was still alive. He had captured Bertha Jorkins in Albania." -- Barty Crouch Jr. (GoF)It's fine if you think he likes Albania, but we don't know that he has been there in a state other than vapor, and therefore unable to hide horcruxes.

And Durmstrang is definitely somewhere in the far north. The furs are the clue. Even the name Durmstrang is Germanic (hence northern). I can't be sure Voldemort didn't do research at Durmstrang, but what I can be sure of is, that it isn't in Albania or Bulgaria which are both southern.

The sun rises and sets lower on the horizon in winter - right?
Well if you are in a mountainous area, say, in a valley, the mountain range around you will cut off the sun for more hours a day because the sun is lower in the sky. So it will be darker & colder.

The snow on the mountains would tend to compensate for that: the light reflects off the snow and makes it seem lighter (and warmer) than it actually is. We in Britain have particularly dark winters because we get so little snow - when it snows it is noticeably brighter.

I don't see JKR hinting about Durmstrang's location being somewhere cold with short winter days if it were in Albania - I think Krum more likely would have said something about forests with oddly behaved snakes.

There are reasons people might assert that horcruxes can be found in Albania, given that we can't know where he was when he left B&B. Nor can we know where he was when he became Vapormort. But it's a stretch to put Durmstrang in Albania.

I happen to think that there are plenty of forests in the UK that can hide horcruxes as well: Sherwood Forest in Nottingham for instance. That one has a lot of romance associated with it and would appeal to young readers. The forbidden forest at Hogwarts is certainly inaccessible and well-protected.

I really don't think the remaining once can be in Hogwarts or BE Hogwarts itself. Remember Dumbldore can recognise Voldie's handiwork. I'd like to think if the Massive clock has a piece of his soul in it, dumbledore would have felt it. Also, thus far the
objects that are "Possessed" have acted very badly...the ring almost killed dumbledore, the diary tried to kill Ginny, so it can't be the school...

Also, It can't be the mirror either. Dumbledore trusted the MIRROR with the stone, and if piece of voldy was in the mirror, wouldn't it have helped the other piece get it?

--Sarakiel

And Voldemort has not fled twice to Albania. Below I will list again all the Albania references. He fled there after SS/PS, and he returned to the UK when he found Wormtail right before GoF. That is one three-year visit. We do not know where he went after he left Hogwarts. And we do not know where he was when he took over Quirrell.Just to supplement what you have said, CBW, but also to contend a bit and expand on my own theories:

The idea that the Dark Lord has fled twice to Albania, once after his fall, and once after Philosopher's Stone comes from two places: a conversation between Harry and Hagrid after they first meet in Chapter Five of Philosopher's Stone and the Dark Lord's recounting of the aftermath of his fall to his Death Eaters after his resurection in Chapter 33 of Goblet of Fire.

You will forgive me if I don't give the quote, as I currently have only the Italian books at hand. But basically in Chapter Five of Philosopher's Stone Hagrid says that In the Black Forest Quirrell encounters a vampire. Then in Chapter 33 of Goblet of Fire the Dark Lord tells his Death Eaters that he met up with Quirrell in the forest where he had taken up habitation.

Everyone will please note that the Black Forest and the Dark Forest are different locations. Black Forest is in Germany, I think, according to Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them and the Dark Forest is in Albania according to Dumbledore. Actually, I don't even recall when the Dark Forest is first mentioned or if that is just fanon, so an actual quote would be nice. In any case, this doesn't mean that the Dark Lord was at all in the Black Forest. What Hagrid was telling Harry was gossip or word of mouth. It could have been faulty information.

It is commonly accepted that the Dark Lord returned to the place he had been hiding previously. It's even in the HP-Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/voldemort-narrative.html) : Lord Voldemort returned to his forest in Albania and there faced his darkest hour.

Further, why would the Dark Lord have changed habitations after Harry defeated him in Philosopher's Stone? Though in canon it never actually says the Dark Lord returned to the Dark Forest, what would be the reason that he didn't? He was already in a right state. I'm sure he wouldn't want to further his difficulties by treading unknown paths.

This part's a lot more speculative than the rest, but I'll go ahead and throw it out there as well. How did Peter know where to find the Dark Lord? Considering the timeline, Peter left Hogwart's and found the Dark Lord in the Dark Forest relatively fast, in a matter of weeks in fact. If you have trouble believing that, just consider the amount of time Bertha Jorkins had been missing, and how the Dark Lord knew of the Quidditch World Cup.

So Peter must have known before hand that the Dark Lord favoured the Dark Forest above other places. How else would he have known this except the Dark Lord had been there even before his downfall? That's right, I'm suggesting that it was common knowledge to the Death Eaters that the Dark Lord had done travels to the Dark Forest, and it's even quite possible that some of their meetings took place in this same location.

Now don't go shoot down the whole theory just because of that last bit, which I agree is highly speculative, but all of the rest seems to go perfectly with canon evidence.

What does this have to do with Finding an horcrux in Albania? Everything. It is obvious that Albania had some attraction to the Dark Lord. It is possible this is a place where he did some of his first great Dark Magic. It could be the place where he first felt true independance. He finally was away from Hogwart's and London, both places he had to rely on other people: Dumbledore, Borgin and Burke, etc.

So if Albania meant this much to him, as I think it must have, he would most assuredly desire to leave an horcrux here. Not only would it have a strong emotional tie to his past, but it would be strategically placed far from the British Isles where the remainder of his horcruxes were to be hidden, and safe from people trying to destroy them. The Dark Lord, arrogant as he may be that no one knows of his horcruxes, will still be quite paranoid, which is evident in the great pains he took to hide and protect the Locket.

So Albania would be the perfect hiding place. Very few people know that he would have been there, fewer would know of his horcruxes, and fewer still would bother searching for them in such a far away place.

The only problem with James and Lily having a Horcrux is that they would have had to commit murder and know the Encasement Spell for that to have happened. James, especially, abhorred the Dark Arts - as seen in "Snape's Worst Memory". I also can't see Lily going down this road either.


I wasn't talking about them killing anyone for their own Horcrux... I was saying that they might have stolen one of Voldemort's Horcruxes...

I wasn't talking about them killing anyone for their own Horcrux... I was saying that they might have stolen one of Voldemort's Horcruxes...Just a few questions. Which horcrux? Are you speculating that it could be the locket? How do you think they found out about the horcruxes since Dumbledore didn't seem to really know about them until Chamber of Secrets? Why wouldn't Dumbledore have known for a fact that the Dark Lord had horcruxes if in fact two of his best Order members had succeeded in finding out? I want to be sure I understand what your theory is before I post anymore, especially since your theory is so intriguing.

Interesting idea... I guess a pensieve would show the actual events of the night that Harry witnessed, though JKR did say something about Harry not actually "seeing" his parents murdered because he was in his crib at the time, and thus, he didn't see the thestrals until 5th year.

How traumatic that would be for Harry, to have to witness his parents murders like that AGAIN...
But you have to remember how a pensive works. It shows everything around the person, whether they were aware of it of not.
Remember, he followed the Maurader's out of the room even though Snape was still taking the test?

well yes but we know that the pensieve doesnt just show the 1st persons memory it is totally impartial unless the memory has been tampered with.

so i guess you could start out watching harry then run to another room and watch what really happened while harry didnt see it. remember that we knew what James and Sirius were saying and doing even though it was Snape's memory in OOTP. and snape was too engrossed in his exam to be paying attention to what James and Sirius were doing.

The only problem with the pensieve is that harry doesnt know how to get out every time he's been pulled out by someone else like dumbledore and snape.

and yes i believe harry would not exactly enjoy watching his parents being murdered by someone he already hates so much for the murders of people like sirius and dumbledore indirectly and all of those deaths caused by fenrir greyback and death eaters are also indirectly related to him because he rallied them and gave them the orders.
Did not read far enough before posting.

Just a few questions. Which horcrux? Are you speculating that it could be the locket? How do you think they found out about the horcruxes since Dumbledore didn't seem to really know about them until Chamber of Secrets? Why wouldn't Dumbledore have known for a fact that the Dark Lord had horcruxes if in fact two of his best Order members had succeeded in finding out? I want to be sure I understand what your theory is before I post anymore, especially since your theory is so intriguing.

I dunno which Horcrux it might be... but let's look at it this way. Lily and James knew they might be a target of Voldemort. So maybe they were a target because they had stolen a Horcrux... well, if they were a target, they might not have trust anyone...

You have to think that Voldemort didn't want to kill Lily... she could have ran... but maybe there was another reason why Voldemort killed Lily... because she knew about the Horcruxes...

Remember, he followed the Maurader's out of the room even though Snape was still taking the test?Actually all the rolls of parchment had been collected in and Snape was following the Marauders out of the Great Hall. Harry was relieved to see that Snape was going in the same direction as the Marauders so that he could still go with them.

The sun rises and sets lower on the horizon in winter - right?
Well if you are in a mountainous area, say, in a valley, the mountain range around you will cut off the sun for more hours a day because the sun is lower inthe sky. So it will be darker & colder.Actually Albania is so far south that I don't think it gets all that much darker in the winter than in the summer. It's in the far north, for example in Norway, where I live, that the sun stays low on the horizon all day long in winter, and the summer nights are still light. When the sun is behind a mountain, you don't get direct sunlight, but it isn't dark either. I know because I live on a mountainside.

Here (http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?balkans_map.html) is a map that shows Albania. It's on the Mediterranean, right by Italy. Here (http://www.albaniantourism.com/) is a site about the country of Albania. It doesn't fit in with my image of Durmstrang at all. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania).

I dunno which Horcrux it might be... but let's look at it this way. Lily and James knew they might be a target of Voldemort. So maybe they were a target because they had stolen a Horcrux... well, if they were a target, they might not have trust anyone...

You have to think that Voldemort didn't want to kill Lily... she could have ran... but maybe there was another reason why Voldemort killed Lily... because she knew about the Horcruxes...Fair points. But remember that we know from canon that the reason James and Lily were targets was because of Harry. The Dark Lord wanted to kill Harry, and Harry alone. He killed James because he fought. He killed Lily because she wouldn't get out of the way.

But it is curious why he took his time with Lily the way he did. He rationally explained to her that she needn't die. Neither she nor the Dark Lord knew that she could save Harry. And what use would she have been to the Dark Lord alive?

If JKR were to add to the tension by having Lily and James steal an horcrux, well, that would just be unnecesary, since we know that they were already on the Dark Lord's hit list, but it wouldn't be unexpected.

And if we think about the connections of Sirius and Regalus and Sirius and James and Lily (goodness that was a lot of and's) it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that James and Lily somehow got a hold of the Locket.

If nothing else, Fury, you've got me thinking completely opposite to what I set out doing, but I will have to think about this a while longer before I come up with anything more conclusive.

Fair points. But remember that we know from canon that the reason James and Lily were targets was because of Harry. The Dark Lord wanted to kill Harry, and Harry alone. He killed James because he fought. He killed Lily because she wouldn't get out of the way.

But it is curious why he took his time with Lily the way he did. He rationally explained to her that she needn't die. Neither she nor the Dark Lord knew that she could save Harry. And what use would she have been to the Dark Lord alive?

If JKR were to add to the tension by having Lily and James steal an horcrux, well, that would just be unnecesary, since we know that they were already on the Dark Lord's hit list, but it wouldn't be unexpected.

And if we think about the connections of Sirius and Regalus and Sirius and James and Lily (goodness that was a lot of and's) it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that James and Lily somehow got a hold of the Locket.

If nothing else, Fury, you've got me thinking completely opposite to what I set out doing, but I will have to think about this a while longer before I come up with anything more conclusive.

Well, I never actually said that it was going to happen... but there is the possibility... even if it is a 1% chance, there is always a chance it could happen. I believe there is another reason why Voldemort didn't have to kill Lily... and it would make a good explanation that there could be something at Godric's Hollow... something Harry will find when he travels to Godric's Hollow...

Actually all the rolls of parchment had been collected in and Snape was following the Marauders out of the Great Hall. Harry was relieved to see that Snape was going in the same direction as the Marauders so that he could still go with them.

Actually Albania is so far south that I don't think it gets all that much darker in the winter than in the summer. It's in the far north, for example in Norway, where I live, that the sun stays low on the horizon all day long in winter, and the summer nights are still light. When the sun is behind a mountain, you don't get direct sunlight, but it isn't dark either. I know because I live on a mountainside.

Here (http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?balkans_map.html) is a map that shows Albania. It's on the Mediterranean, right by Italy. Here (http://www.albaniantourism.com/) is a site about the country of Albania. It doesn't fit in with my image of Durmstrang at all. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania).


Good point anabel. Sounds like we can rule out Durmstrang as a horcrux location.

Also, It can't be the mirror either. Dumbledore trusted the MIRROR with the stone, and if piece of voldy was in the mirror, wouldn't it have helped the other piece get it?Interesting. I agree with you that Dumbledore seems to have a marvellous ability to detect magic and concealment, so he would probably have discovered a Horcrux at Hogwarts. But I'm not at all sure that a Horcrux could actually think or behave in a certain way. I know the Diary did, but that was made first of all as a means to reopen the Chamber of Secrets - the Horcrux part seems to have been added later. The purpose of a Horcrux is to bind the owner's soul to this life and prevent it departing through the veil. It's as if only whole and unfragmented souls can pass through, so if you leave a piece of your soul in a secure place, then the remaining part cannot die/pass on. We saw the result when Voldemort was "ripped from his body" but didn't die - Vapormort was the part of him that should have passed through the veil but was held back by the Horcruxes. So far, we have no evidence at all that a Horcrux is a thinking, feeling entity, but we have no proof the other way either.

Well, I never actually said that it was going to happen... but there is the possibility... even if it is a 1% chance, there is always a chance it could happen. I believe there is another reason why Voldemort didn't have to kill Lily... and it would make a good explanation that there could be something at Godric's Hollow... something Harry will find when he travels to Godric's Hollow...

This is just pure speculation, but what if the reason that Voldemort didn't want to kill Lily is the same reason that he didn't want someone who found the locket in the cave to die right away? What if Lily either knew about or had one of Voldemort's horcruxes, and he wanted to know how she came about it?

Just a wild guess.

Actually all the rolls of parchment had been collected in and Snape was following the Marauders out of the Great Hall. Harry was relieved to see that Snape was going in the same direction as the Marauders so that he could still go with them.

Actually Albania is so far south that I don't think it gets all that much darker in the winter than in the summer. It's in the far north, for example in Norway, where I live, that the sun stays low on the horizon all day long in winter, and the summer nights are still light. When the sun is behind a mountain, you don't get direct sunlight, but it isn't dark either. I know because I live on a mountainside.

Here (http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?balkans_map.html) is a map that shows Albania. It's on the Mediterranean, right by Italy. Here (http://www.albaniantourism.com/) is a site about the country of Albania. It doesn't fit in with my image of Durmstrang at all. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania).We actually talked about this in a former version of this thread, about there being two Albania's....One being Albania of the Balkan's....the other being Caucasoid Albania {Azerbaijan}....

Caucasoid Albania, now Azerbaijan, is situated by Armenia, Georgia, the Ukraine....it was founded in the 4th century, and was part of the Persian Empire...

While Caucasian Albania no longer exists in the 'muggle' world, this does not necessarily mean it does not exist in the magical world.

For instance, Neville gets his plant, the Mimbulus Mimbletonia, from his Great-Uncle Algie; the plant comes from Assyria, which does not exist in today's 'muggle' world {though apparently it does in the magical world}. In "muggle" history, the Assyrian Empire collapsed in 609 BC, but Assyrians survive as a specific ethnic group which are located mainly in Northern Iraq today.

I don't believe that JK did reference Caucasoid Albania, though it's a possibility. Being south of Russia and the Ukraine, however, it is probably too far south to be the place where Durmstrang is located.

well i think that since the chamber of secrets was all voldemorts and krap like that and was all about the snakes, could there be any possibility that the snake is in the chamber of secrets? Any feedback would be great.

well i think that since the chamber of secrets was all voldemorts and krap like that and was all about the snakes, could there be any possibility that the snake is in the chamber of secrets? Any feedback would be great.The last time we saw Nagini was the attack on Arthur Weasley in OoP. She actually hasn't been seen since.

As to being in the Chamber, LV hasn't returned to Hogwarts since DD refused him the DADA post; according to the official timeline provided by JK, DD became Headmaster in 1955...this would have been exactly ten years after Tom had completed school...though there were probably a few years that he worked for Borgin & Burkes.

I don't think that LV could or would sneak Nagini into the Chamber: she's one of his Horcruxes, she has to be cared for; and if LV was confident enough to sneak into Hogwarts then he would have done it before now.

Back to the part about James and Lily having 1 of LV's horcruxes we still have the fact that dumbledore didnt know about the horcruxes and if they had the locket then why did it turn up in grimmauld place. the main part is that dumbledore specifically of all people didnt know and if he didnt know then J&L didnt know either and that means it is probably a less than 1% chance of it being true which means that i think we can safely rule that out.

And then about albania who says a horcrux cant be in Durmstrang it says durmstrang is up north and Albania is down south. as far as we know durmstrang could be in germany or norway or finland or any other place. and whats stopping voldemort from going back to albania after he regained power he knows of the loss of the diary so whats stopping him from making another horcrux he could have made it with amelia bones' death she was a prominent member of the ministry and very well respected i'd imagine that he would consider that a special kill. then why cant he go back to albania and hide it there after spending so many years there he might know of some really good hiding spots
or he might just want it out of harrys immediate reach just in case he cant stop harry from gaining enough power to destroy him.

because he still thinks harry is too weak to kill him he is taking the smart tactic of wiping out the problem before it becomes a serious threat to his power. boy is he in for a big surprise.

Back to the part about James and Lily having 1 of LV's horcruxes we still have the fact that dumbledore didnt know about the horcruxes and if they had the locket then why did it turn up in grimmauld place. the main part is that dumbledore specifically of all people didnt know and if he didnt know then J&L didnt know either and that means it is probably a less than 1% chance of it being true which means that i think we can safely rule that out.

And then about albania who says a horcrux cant be in Durmstrang it says durmstrang is up north and Albania is down south. as far as we know durmstrang could be in germany or norway or finland or any other place. and whats stopping voldemort from going back to albania after he regained power he knows of the loss of the diary so whats stopping him from making another horcrux he could have made it with amelia bones' death she was a prominent member of the ministry and very well respected i'd imagine that he would consider that a special kill. then why cant he go back to albania and hide it there after spending so many years there he might know of some really good hiding spots
or he might just want it out of harrys immediate reach just in case he cant stop harry from gaining enough power to destroy him.

because he still thinks harry is too weak to kill him he is taking the smart tactic of wiping out the problem before it becomes a serious threat to his power. boy is he in for a big surprise.
I was thinking more along the lines of Lily and James finding out about the horcruxes, rather than actually having one. Remember Lily must have been studying up on Ancient Blood Magic ... perhaps she came across the information on Dehorcruxing an Item ... or on Horcruxes themselves ... which is also ancient magic. I don't think Lily or James actually had a horcrux, however if they did, I would suspect that it would be the Unknown Horcrux ... the RR or GG item, in which case it would put an item in G'sH.

I think that DD suspected Voldemort had made "a" Horcrux, which was confirmed that night when he tried to kill Harry, and instead was ripped from his body. DD didn't know whether there was more than one. The fact that LV had indeed make more than one was confirmed with the destruction of the Diary, which we were led to believe was just cleverly enchanted until JK revealed Horcruxes in HBP.

I don't think that James and Lily ever knew of or retained any of LVs Horcruxes, not ever.

As for Durmstrang as a locale for a Horcrux, well, we simply have no info that LV ever visited there. We're told by DD that he'd searched for years, places that he knew LV to have been, in the hopes of finding something---a Horcrux. In the end, we have knowledge of certain Horcruxes being hidden in places familiar to LV...the cave, the Gaunt House, a faithful DE.

Tracking the Horcruxes I think depends upon tracking LVs movements. We know he worked at Borgin & Burkes in Knockturn Alley--and had been to Diagon Alley--The Leaky Cauldron--the orphanage--London--the MoM, The Hog's Head in Hogsmeade, Hogwarts & the Chamber of Secrets, the English countryside & coast, The Riddle Mansion--Little Hangleton Cemetery---The Gaunt Place, Godric's Hollow, and Albania...We also have knowledge that he'd killed Dorcas Meadowes personally, and also killed a goblin family that lived near Nottingham.

As for making more Horcruxes, I don't believe that he can. I believe he is limited to the six that he's made.

i agree with king though lily probably was reading up on blood magic if they found something on horcruxes they would have told dumbledore immediatly.

I think that DD suspected Voldemort had made "a" Horcrux, which was confirmed that night when he tried to kill Harry, and instead was ripped from his body. DD didn't know whether there was more than one. The fact that LV had indeed make more than one was confirmed with the destruction of the Diary, which we were led to believe was just cleverly enchanted until JK revealed Horcruxes in HBP.I wholeheartedly agree with you, Obviously DD knew about Horcruxes ... because well he's old and wise ... and he knows that they're a banned subject at Hogwarts. I don't think that James and Lily ever knew of or retained any of LVs Horcruxes, not ever.You're bursting my bubble here!!!
As for Durmstrang as a locale for a Horcrux, well, we simply have no info that LV ever visited there. We're told by DD that he'd searched for years, places that he knew LV to have been, in the hopes of finding something---a Horcrux. In the end, we have knowledge of certain Horcruxes being hidden in places familiar to LV...the cave, the Gaunt House, a faithful DE. I'm in agreement. Question though, could Durmstrang be a location for the fact that Karkaroff is a DE? Perhaps LV went recruiting?Tracking the Horcruxes I think depends upon tracking LVs movements. We know he worked at Borgin & Burkes in Knockturn Alley--and had been to Diagon Alley--The Leaky Cauldron--the orphanage--London--the MoM, The Hog's Head in Hogsmeade, Hogwarts & the Chamber of Secrets, the English countryside & coast, The Riddle Mansion--Little Hangleton Cemetery---The Gaunt Place, Godric's Hollow, and Albania...We also have knowledge that he'd killed Dorcas Meadowes personally, and also killed a goblin family that lived near Nottingham.These locations have been updated on The Location Theories List (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=3134229&postcount=84) link.

Remember Lily must have been studying up on Ancient Blood Magic There was no special Ancient Blood Magic. What happened when Lily jumped in front of the AK was accidental and had James done it for Harry or either of the Longbottoms for Neville, the protection would have been the same. The sacrfice accidentally triggered blood protection, but no one did anything deliberate.

I don't think that James and Lily ever knew of or retained any of LVs Horcruxes, not ever.I agree.

You're bursting my bubble here!!!Sorry, Surry, I just don't see DD sharing that info, and LV wasn't either, and I don't see James and Lily accidentally learning of them.
I'm in agreement. Question though, could Durmstrang be a location for the fact that Karkaroff is a DE? Perhaps LV went recruiting?Actually, from something that Karkaroff said in GoF, I wonder if he'd actually attended Hogwarts."Dear old Hogwarts," he said, looking up at the castle and smiling....."How good it is to be here..."I don't know why, but this has always made me believe that Karkaroff was familiar with Hogwarts before that visit. These locations have been updated on The Location Theories List (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=3134229&postcount=84) link. :tu: Cool, surry, you're doing a great job!

There was no special Ancient Blood Magic. What happened when Lily jumped in front of the AK was accidental and had James done it for Harry or either of the Longbottoms for Neville, the protection would have been the same. The sacrfice accidentally triggered blood protection, but no one did anything deliberate.Hmmm ... you're right ... well ... another theory bites the dust LOL:)
I hope your hands are feeling better today CBW!!!

There was no special Ancient Blood Magic. What happened when Lily jumped in front of the AK was accidental and had James done it for Harry or either of the Longbottoms for Neville, the protection would have been the same. The sacrfice accidentally triggered blood protection, but no one did anything deliberate.<snip>

Actually, Rowling said that Lily's sacrifice was very deliberate, and this is why her death protected Harry while Jame's didn't: because she was given a choice, and because of her love for Harry refused to move. James was going to die anyway and had no choice, so didn't protect Harry. Also, it was my impression that Lily's sacrifice created, not triggered, Harry's protection. Dumbledore then used a different magic to hold that protection in the the family, and thus protecting Harry while he stayed with Petunia.

She made a choice to sacrifice herself for her child (which is something many parents would do). She didn't not deliberately try to trigger any ancient magic.

I don't see the difference between the word triggered and created. The magic wasn't something that could be deliberately invoked, it had to occur from personal sacrifice. The sacrifice was the triggering event for the creation of the blood protection.

Lily did not deliberately sacrifice herself to invoke ancient blood magic. For all we know, she didn't even know such magic existed. She was not studying ancient blood magic. This was an unintended consequence of her sacrifice from mother's love. She threw herself in front of the AK. No one had ever done this before so she could not possibly have known the outcome of sacrifcing herself.

She made a choice to sacrifice herself for her child (which is something many parents would do). She didn't not deliberately try to trigger any ancient magic.

I don't see the difference between the word triggered and created. The magic wasn't something that could be deliberately invoked, it had to occur from personal sacrifice. The sacrifice was the triggering event for the creation of the blood protection.

Lily did not deliberately sacrifice herself to invoke ancient blood magic. For all we know, she didn't even know such magic existed. She was not studying ancient blood magic. This was an unintended consequence of her sacrifice from mother's love. She threw herself in front of the AK. No one had ever done this before so she could not possibly have known the outcome of sacrifcing herself.Here's a quote from an interview that I think might help people out ... I was incorrect about her conciously and deliberately acting to provide Blood Protection, it seems that DD figured out that's what happened after the events of the night unfolded.
MA: Did she know anything about the possible effect of standing in front of Harry?

JKR: No - because as I've tried to make clear in the series, it never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one, therefore, knew that could happen.

Yes, she didn't know that her sacrifice would save Harry. What I meant was that she didn't "accidently" get in front of the curse. I was also pointing out why Harry's father's death didn't protect Harry, even though James did die trying to save Harry and Lily. When I was pointing out the difference between created and triggered, I was refering to the fact that it didn't exist before her sacrifice. I was also pointing out that she created the protection, but Dumbledore, from his description, did something to it to hold it in the family: " . . . but she took you, and thus sealed the charm I placed upon you."

Here's the relevant part of the answer from the FAQ:

So what would have happened if Voldemort had decided that the pure-blood, not the half-blood, was the bigger threat? What would have happened if he had attacked Neville instead? Harry wonders this during the course of 'Half-Blood Prince' and concludes, rightly, that the answer hinges on whether or not one of Neville's parents would have been able, or prepared, to die for their son in the way that Lily died for Harry. If they hadn't, Neville would have been killed outright. Had Frank or Alice thrown themselves in front of Neville, however, the killing curse would have rebounded just as it did in Harry's case, and Neville would have been the one who survived with the lightning scar.

Yep, exactly. It all hinges on the choices of people and their parents.

Can we nudge this a little closer back to topic please?

Sorry.

Back on topic. I don't think that an intact horcrux will be found at GH. He might find an object that was intended to be a horcrux, but I don't think that's very likely either, since I don't think that LV needs to make the horcrux immediately after the murder.

But something Harry finds (information or a magical object) will be a clue to help him hunt the horcruxes. I think a visit there will be for more than general emotional resonance.

I agree, but I'm still wondering what he could find. His grandparents aren't important, we've heard, and Rowling (mostly) killed the Heir of Gryf theory so we can rule out the rest of his ancestors. And what could Harry find in the ruins that Hagrid, Petigrew (he searched the place later: that's how he got Voldie's wand), probably Dumbledore, and the ministry search wizards didn't?

I don't know. I guess it could just be a pro forma visit for emotional impact. Maybe some memory device that enables him to have a an informative flashback. But I don't think the Potters knew about horcruxes. Maybe they knew about some of LVs movements.

Or Harry could find something out there, but it has nothing to do with his parents. For example, as a plot device it would be a great way for Harry to find out about the Ministry following him: someone tripping in an invisibility cloak during a sensitive moment. But anyway, Horcruxes other than Godric's Hollow.

Edit: I just remembered: Rowling has said that Harry's Parent's jobs will be important, so he can find something of that there. So back to topic.

i dont think the theory is dead that something that was intended to become a horcrux but didnt and is still in or near godrics hollow.

yes wormtail probably searched the scene and found the wand but he didnt know about horcruxes i think we can agree that peter was never really in LVs in crowd so he wouldnt have known about it then it is likly that someone possibly a friend of theirs hagrid could have put it on their graves or something as some poeple put special items on the graves of dead loved ones then when harry is visiting he might see it.

but there are also other possibilities like some contractor cleaning up sold it to a shop or hagrid took it to his hut as something to remember some of his best friends by. i dont know if that will be significant because as far as we know it might not even be a horcrux because voldemort might not have completed the spell to seal part of his soul in it.

of course i could be way off abd the thing about harry finding out that someone is tailing him is a good idea as well

I had a question earlier for anyone with the English books with them, but it was in a long post and got lost I suppose, so I'll just ask it again. It concerns the Dark Forest in Albania. I had just pointed out the difference between the Black Forest and the Dark Forest, but I don't even recall when the Dark Forest is even mentioned in canon or if it's is just fanon. I had thought Dumbledore said it, but the only things I could find are him talking about a forest in Albania. So if one of you sleuths with excellent memories or computer search options could help me out, I'd appreciate it.

I wonder if there's a "What will Happen in Godric's Hollow" thread? we could continue the speculation there. I think that GH is such a HUGE unknown ... we know the HOUSE was blown up. We don't know what the area is like, we don't know what's happened to the blown up house since then ... too many unknowns. I think we should chalk it up to a viable location ... but without enough info to theorize on it.

I had a question earlier for anyone with the English books with them, but it was in a long post and got lost I suppose, so I'll just ask it again. It concerns the Dark Forest in Albania. I had just pointed out the difference between the Black Forest and the Dark Forest, but I don't even recall when the Dark Forest is even mentioned in canon or if it's is just fanon. I had thought Dumbledore said it, but the only things I could find are him talking about a forest in Albania. So if one of you sleuths with excellent memories or computer search options could help me out, I'd appreciate it.I don't have the books ... but I thought it was something like ~WT travelled through the Dark Forest ... and his little rat friends talked about an evil spirit~ ... etc etc ... I could be wrong though

I wonder if there's a "What will Happen in Godric's Hollow" thread? we could continue the speculation there. I think that GH is such a HUGE unknown ... we know the HOUSE was blown up. We don't know what the area is like, we don't know what's happened to the blown up house since then ... too many unknowns. I think we should chalk it up to a viable location ... but without enough info to theorize on it.Well, I'm sure that the Dark Lord didn't have any horcruxes in his pocket when he went to Godric's Hollow, so Harry won't find one there. I think he will find something there to lead him somewhere else, sort of like a scavenger hunt, but I'm certain it won't be an horcrux.

I don't have the books ... but I thought it was something like ~WT travelled through the Dark Forest ... and his little rat friends talked about an evil spirit~ ... etc etc ... I could be wrong thoughWell, I was really hoping for an actual quote and reference so I could see it for myself. For right now, what you said is all I can remember as well, but it seems a little fuzzy to me.

LV's long windy speech in GoF: "And then, not even a year ago, when I had almost abandoned hope, it happened at last… a servant returned to me. Wormtail here, who had faked his own death to escape justice, was driven out of hiding by those he had once counted friends, and decided to return to his master. He sought me in the country where it had long been rumored I was hiding… helped, of course, by the rats he met along the way. Wormtail has a curious affinity with rats, do you not, Wormtail? His filthy little friends told him there was a place, deep in an Albanian forest, that they avoided, where small animals like themselves had met their deaths by a dark shadow that possessed them…"

And then the only other reference to Quirrell pre-SS/PS is this from Hagrid: "Oh, yeah. Poor bloke. Brilliant mind. He was fine while he was studyin' outta books but then he took a year off ter get some firsthand experience.... They say he met vampires in the Black Forest"Generic Intro to Quirrell's classroom: His classroom smelled strongly of garlic, which everyone said was to ward off a vampire he'd met in Romania and was afraid would be coming back to get him one of these days. His turban, he told them, had been given to him by an African prince as a thank-you for getting rid of a troublesome zombie, but they weren't sure they believed this story. We can't know if he ran into any vampires anyway since the garlic was a cover story for Voldy's BO under the turban (which a cover story itself).

Frankly I think that the Lexicon has mixed the Black Forest and Albanian forest when they say LV has gone there twice.

Well, I'm sure that the Dark Lord didn't have any horcruxes in his pocket when he went to Godric's Hollow, so Harry won't find one there. I think he will find something there to lead him somewhere else, sort of like a scavenger hunt, but I'm certain it won't be an horcrux.

Why so sure? If, as Dumbledore theorized, Voldemort wanted to make his sixth and final Horcrux with Harry's murder, it makes sense to me that he might have had the object with him that night since we do not know how long one can wait after committing a murder before making the Horcrux. It could actually help Harry quite a bit to find an object which is not a Horcrux, but was intended to be one. For example, if he were to find a Ravenclaw item in the rubble of his parents' old house, he could then turn his attention to Gryffindor for the identity of the "unknown Horcrux". I certainly agree with you that if Harry goes back to Godric's Hollow, it won't just be to have a look around the place...he'll find something important there.

Why so sure? If, as Dumbledore theorized, Voldemort wanted to make his sixth and final Horcrux with Harry's murder, it makes sense to me that he might have had the object with him that night since we do not know how long one can wait after committing a murder before making the Horcrux. It could actually help Harry quite a bit to find an object which is not a Horcrux, but was intended to be one. For example, if he were to find a Ravenclaw item in the rubble of his parents' old house, he could then turn his attention to Gryffindor for the identity of the "unknown Horcrux". I certainly agree with you that if Harry goes back to Godric's Hollow, it won't just be to have a look around the place...he'll find something important there.
We only have 1 unknown Horcrux ... the RR or GG Item

We only have 1 unknown Horcrux ... the RR or GG Item
But that's only if Nagini is a horcrux. I think we are split on this, and I don't think we can resolve it.

Frankly I think that the Lexicon has mixed the Black Forest and Dark Forest when they say LV has gone there twice.Thanks, CBW, for the quotes. I was reviewing today in Italian and couldn't help but realise that a lot of us say Dark Forest like it's canon. The Black Forest is definately in Germany, per Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them. I agree that the Lexicon has it confused, but there are still other good reasons that the Dark Lord would have been in the Forests of Albania twice. But that isn't important. It is still noteable that the Forest in Albania is definately a place that the Dark Lord has a connection with, and I believe it will be a place of hot horcrux action in the last book.

I was just about to post that there is no quote for "Dark Forest" but there is one for Albanian forest. But regardless the Black Forest is in Germany.

But that's only if Nagini is a horcrux. I think we are split on this, and I don't think we can resolve it.
LOL ... hmmm it's been ... 3 months since book six came out ... right? I don't think anyone's resolved anything anywhere!!!! *chuckles* But that's okay ... since we're all here just to have fun

Thanks, CBW, for the quotes. I was reviewing today in Italian and couldn't help but realise that a lot of us say Dark Forest like it's canon. The Black Forest is definately in Germany, per Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them. I agree that the Lexicon has it confused, but there are still other good reasons that the Dark Lord would have been in the Forests of Albania twice. But that isn't important. It is still noteable that the Forest in Albania is definately a place that the Dark Lord has a connection with, and I believe it will be a place of hot horcrux action in the last book.
This just blows my whole Dark Forest is the reason we're going to Albania theory right out of the bloody water!!! ARGHHHH

well im not sure if there actually is a dark forest in the books but i remember that in the movies they call the forbidden forest the dark forest. maybe thats where the name dark forest came from?

and by the way i agree with DD that nagini is a horcrux.

he has rarly been wrong unless you count the snape thing unless that was planned.

Why so sure? If, as Dumbledore theorized, Voldemort wanted to make his sixth and final Horcrux with Harry's murder, it makes sense to me that he might have had the object with him that night since we do not know how long one can wait after committing a murder before making the Horcrux.
We actually do know that the Horcrux need not be made immediately on the spot within a matter of moments after the murder.

TR murdered 3 of his family members at least 1 year before finding out about Horcruxes from Slughorn. Dumbledore noted no change in TR appearance before he left Hogwarts at the end of Year 7. So that means we have 2 years before TR could have even learned about the Encasement Spell Slughorn told him was necessary to create a Horcrux.

Riddle murdered his father and grandparents = 3
Riddle murders Heppy Smith = 1

Riddle uses these 4 murders to create Horcruxes out of the Diary, the Gaunt Ring, Slytherin's Locket and Hufflepuff's Cup. All of these were made after quite some time. The Diary wasn't made the right after TR killed his relatives.

I don't believe for a second that TR made a Horcrux while he was still at Hogwarts.

Rastaban's right that Albania is a place that LV is familiar with regardless.

well i sort of think that TR made at least 1 horcrux while at hogwarts he made the diary encaseing a perfect memory of his 16 year old self in there so i'd assume he was 16 when it was made or at least turned into a horcrux.

and we also dont know that the horcruxes of the locket cup diary and whatever it was were made specifically from the murders of his family and heppy. he was missing for 10 yrs and when he came back he had transformed implying that he murdered then made horcruxes.

i also have 1 question it seems that every time LV makes a horcrux he transforms a little bit more because remember in DD's memory his eyes hadnt turned to scarlet slits yet so maybe he did manage to make a horcrux out of lilys or james' death which gave his eyes the scarlet color and the slit pupils.

well i sort of think that TR made at least 1 horcrux while at hogwarts he made the diary encaseing a perfect memory of his 16 year old self in there so i'd assume he was 16 when it was made or at least turned into a horcrux.
Then why did TR ask Slughorn how? Slughorn responded that there was a Spell, the Encasement Spell, and that Sluggy did not know what it was.

Horcrux information was banned at Hogwarts when TR was there. TR would have had to find out what the spell was, somewhere outside of Hogwarts, before he could create his first Horcrux. (See HBP, pg. 498)


I also have 1 question it seems that every time LV makes a horcrux he transforms a little bit more because remember in DD's memory his eyes hadnt turned to scarlet slits yet so maybe he did manage to make a horcrux out of lilys or james' death which gave his eyes the scarlet color and the slit pupils.
TR's eyes flashed red twice when he was visiting Heppy Smith. See HBP, pg. 436-437. The first flash Harry saw, the second one Heppy noticed.

He had made at least 1 Horcrux before visiting Heppy.

We only have 1 unknown Horcrux ... the RR or GG Item

However, there is also likely an item which Voldemort intended to make a Horcux (with Harry's murder), but wasn't able to do so because of what happened. IF Voldemort did have both a Ravenclaw and Gryffindor artifact and Harry could find the one Voldemort didn't make a Horcrux, he could then know which founder's artifact he is looking for.

That might make sense to someone... :lol:

We actually do know that the Horcrux need not be made immediately on the spot within a matter of moments after the murder.

We only know this for sure if we know for sure that Voldemort used those three murders for Horcruxes. For me, this is a pretty big assumption to make, and I'd rather not make it. I think Voldemort committed plenty of "significant" murders other than those during his rise to power.

Then why did TR ask Slughorn how? Slughorn responded that there was a Spell, the Encasement Spell, and that Sluggy did not know what it was.

Horcrux information was banned at Hogwarts when TR was there. TR would have had to find out what the spell was, somewhere outside of Hogwarts, before he could create his first Horcrux. (See HBP, pg. 498)


TR's eyes flashed red twice when he was visiting Heppy Smith. See HBP, pg. 436-437. The first flash Harry saw, the second one Heppy noticed.

He had made at least 1 Horcrux before visiting Heppy.

maybe TR wasnt 16 by the time he was asking Slughorn we know he can wander off during summer break and i'd imagine that in some huge library somewhere in the wizarding world or in knockturn alley might have a book on it. we also dont know what resources he has for all we know he may have used veritaserum on somebody to force the spell out.

then when his eyes flashed red youve got me there but theyre not the permenant red with the slits in them im just putting a theory out and it seems like it is possible. and im not saying he hadnt made a horcrux by then of course he did the diary.

but he didnt let the diary loose on the school because he was still there he would have got caught and he wasnt powerful yet. so he held on to it had big plans and planned to use it later as a part of his World domination scheme as a way to take out hogwarts.

Yes, I'd agree that the flashes were a result of his transformation from the first Horcrux. And I think that we can guess that his first Horcrux was his diary: Riddle said he preserved his sixteen year old self, he was sixteen when he came out of the diary. Also, remember what Dumbledore said about Gaunt's ring: when he had made it into a Horcrux he didn't want it anymore and hid it in the Gaunt house with a nasty curse on it and a charm to conceal it. Riddle still had the ring when he learned about Horcruxes from Slughorn, so he had already killed his family. I think the reason that the defense on the house was (relatively: compare it to a cave and lake of inferi) weak was that it was one of the first he made, probably before either the cup or the locket. The locket, I will hazard a guess to say, is last both because of it's protection and the fact that it is Slytherin and so very important to Voldemort. Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw fall between, with at least one created while Globetrotting.

maybe TR wasnt 16 by the time he was asking Slughorn we know he can wander off during summer break and i'd imagine that in some huge library somewhere in the wizarding world or in knockturn alley might have a book on it. we also dont know what resources he has for all we know he may have used veritaserum on somebody to force the spell out.
It has been indisputably stated that TR killed his relatives in the summer when he was 16 years old - between his 5th and 6th year at Hogwarts. DD told Harry that TR was the exact same age as him (Harry) when he killed them.

The following year, during TR's 6th year, is when he asked Slughorn about Horcruxes and learned there was a spell necessary for encasing the torn fragment in an object.

The timeline can be verified by Lexicon.

oops you got me there :blush:

nice call i didnt remember that thanks for clearing it up

i guess a lot of wizard diary's are like that and the LV's soul in there just gave it the ability and will to escape and become truelly alive.

could you imagine that 2 LV's and the entire wizarding world cant even cope with 1

oops you got me there :blush:

nice call i didnt remember that thanks for clearing it up

i guess a lot of wizard diary's are like that and the LV's soul in there just gave it the ability and will to escape and become truelly alive.
An excellent deduction! :tu:

The soul fragment was the added spice to the mix that was the Diary and a 16-year-old future megalomaniac's memory.

hey sage thyme i sort of respect you and ive read alot of your posts and agree with you on just about everything i just have one question for you it has been bothering me for a while but i wasnt sure whether to start a thread or what so do you think there is anything curently stopping LV from making more horcruxes because if you ask me he sort of over reacted to the loss of the diary.

the only answer i have been able to come up with is that having his diary released would have made him much more powerful and that now it wasnt possible because he would make another diary and if it got free it might challenge him for power.

I remember melissa asking JKR what would happen if he got free and she responded that it would make him much more powerful.

and what i have as a counter arguement to that is that he is already very powerful and knows that harry is the only one with the power to destroy him but doesnt see him as a curent threat.

The last time we saw Nagini was the attack on Arthur Weasley in OoP. She actually hasn't been seen since.

As to being in the Chamber, LV hasn't returned to Hogwarts since DD refused him the DADA post; according to the official timeline provided by JK, DD became Headmaster in 1955...this would have been exactly ten years after Tom had completed school...though there were probably a few years that he worked for Borgin & Burkes.

I don't think that LV could or would sneak Nagini into the Chamber: she's one of his Horcruxes, she has to be cared for; and if LV was confident enough to sneak into Hogwarts then he would have done it before now.
But what if there was a way that a snake could get in, but not a person?

hey sage thyme i sort of respect you and ive read alot of your posts and agree with you on just about everything i just have one question for you it has been bothering me for a while but i wasnt sure whether to start a thread or what so do you think there is anything curently stopping LV from making more horcruxes because if you ask me he sort of over reacted to the loss of the diary.

the only answer i have been able to come up with is that having his diary released would have made him much more powerful and that now it wasnt possible because he would make another diary and if it got free it might challenge him for power.

I remember melissa asking JKR what would happen if he got free and she responded that it would make him much more powerful.

and what i have as a counter arguement to that is that he is already very powerful and knows that harry is the only one with the power to destroy him but doesnt see him as a curent threat.

I personally don't believe that VM will go beyond the magic number 7 for pieces of his soul. He believed that to have his soul in 7 pieces would make him stronger. Anything more than 7, nullifies his original goal and the magic associated with the number "7".

After VM's vaporization in Godric's Hollow 16 years ago, I doubt VM would ever forget what the prophecy said about Harry being his biggest threat. As further proof that VM didn't forget, he tried to steal the prophecy in OotP.

Regarding VM making any new Horcruxes, try here: Voldemort Making New Horcruxes (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=61728).

Actually, Rowling said that Lily's sacrifice was very deliberate, and this is why her death protected Harry while Jame's didn't: because she was given a choice, and because of her love for Harry refused to move. James was going to die anyway and had no choice, so didn't protect Harry. Also, it was my impression that Lily's sacrifice created, not triggered, Harry's protection. Dumbledore then used a different magic to hold that protection in the the family, and thus protecting Harry while he stayed with Petunia.
I don't want to get back on the time travel theory, but that is why if Harry went back to save himself, it would not work. There is no protection for dying for yourself.

I personally don't believe that VM will go beyond the magic number 7 for pieces of his soul. He believed that to have his soul in 7 pieces would make him stronger. Anything more than 7, nullifies his original goal and the magic associated with the number "7".

After VM's vaporization in Godric's Hollow 16 years ago, I doubt VM would ever forget what the prophecy said about Harry being his biggest threat. As further proof that VM didn't forget, he tried to steal the prophecy in OotP.

Regarding VM making any new Horcruxes, try here: Voldemort Making New Horcruxes (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=61728).
Why make a point in the book of 7 being the "magic" number if LV could make unlimited Horcruxes. ... it doesn't seem to make sense to have more than seven, even if 1 is destroyed.

ya but im not sure if i understood what he meant by the seven peice thing do you think that he was refering to i will always have 7 pieces and i will be stronger. or is it that i can split my soul 7 times and be strong but any more or less even if some are destroyed will ruin my bonus power.


so what im saying is does he always have to have his soul in 7 different places to gain that power

or would it work even if some of them were destroyed afterwards

in your opinion.

Sorry.

Back on topic. I don't think that an intact horcrux will be found at GH. He might find an object that was intended to be a horcrux, but I don't think that's very likely either, since I don't think that LV needs to make the horcrux immediately after the murder.

But something Harry finds (information or a magical object) will be a clue to help him hunt the horcruxes. I think a visit there will be for more than general emotional resonance.
If nothing else, Harry will atleast be able to feel Voldy's magic signature while he is calm and not acrambling for his life.

Or Harry could find something out there, but it has nothing to do with his parents. For example, as a plot device it would be a great way for Harry to find out about the Ministry following him: someone tripping in an invisibility cloak during a sensitive moment. But anyway, Horcruxes other than Godric's Hollow.

Edit: I just remembered: Rowling has said that Harry's Parent's jobs will be important, so he can find something of that there. So back to topic.
What if they were bankers.

Then they would be in EGYPT looking for treasure for Gringotts and they might have found a horocrux, nature abores a horocrux, string theory style, before the actual murders.

if they were bankers then why are they still in britain if they are supposed to be the curse breakers because gringotts is run entirely by goblins as far as we know.

ya but im not sure if i understood what he meant by the seven peice thing do you think that he was refering to i will always have 7 pieces and i will be stronger. or is it that i can split my soul 7 times and be strong but any more or less even if some are destroyed will ruin my bonus power.


so what im saying is does he always have to have his soul in 7 different places to gain that power

or would it work even if some of them were destroyed afterwards

in your opinion.
Here's a Theory ... When LV made his 6th Horcrux ... creating 7 separate soul pieces, he thought he attained the MOST power ... and secured his immortality. Then, Malfoy tells him the Diary has been destroyed ... by none other than ... *trumpet* Harry Potter. LV screams and thrashes about ... OHHH that DASTERDLY POTTER!!!!!! and all the while he's thinking to himself ... I've been thwarted again. So LV has to go to plan B ... GET POTTER and deal with additional security of his immortality later. In conclusion, I don't think we'll see him make additional Horcruxes ... I think he's focused on Harry Potter. However, Perhaps he sees it as an opportunity to create the 7th horcrux OUT of Harry's death ... AGAIN, which is why he didn't immediately make another number 6 Horcrux after he found out about the Diary.

Why so sure? If, as Dumbledore theorized, Voldemort wanted to make his sixth and final Horcrux with Harry's murder, it makes sense to me that he might have had the object with him that night since we do not know how long one can wait after committing a murder before making the Horcrux. It could actually help Harry quite a bit to find an object which is not a Horcrux, but was intended to be one. For example, if he were to find a Ravenclaw item in the rubble of his parents' old house, he could then turn his attention to Gryffindor for the identity of the "unknown Horcrux". I certainly agree with you that if Harry goes back to Godric's Hollow, it won't just be to have a look around the place...he'll find something important there.
But the theory is he was going to go to Hogwarts to get the last relic, the sword,since DD would not be able to kill him after Harry was dead.
I think that he probobly found out about the sword from the goblin family in Nottingham, amoung other things.

I was just about to post that there is no quote for "Dark Forest" but there is one for Albanian forest. But regardless the Black Forest is in Germany.
So widget, it could be in a cooko clock. The Tic Toc theory is revised. But it would have to be in a place related to RR, not HH, right?

its possible but i think voldemort is losing support fast every time he makes an attack he usually fails and loses a few DE's each time so he cant lable too many of them expendable anymore or he will have to break those 20 or so DE's from azkaban. so i think they should be executed or moved to somewhere he cant get them because according to the prophesy harry is the only one who can destroy him so he could just walk into azkaban knowing that he wouldnt be caught and just take out the aurors 1 by 1 until he has the prison under his control.

so he has to make his attacks more effective because if he keeps attacking like this and loses 2 or 3 each time at least harry will eventually wear his forces down.

if they were bankers then why are they still in britain if they are supposed to be the curse breakers because gringotts is run entirely by goblins as far as we know.
Well, what do you think Bill does? He is a cursebreaker for Gringotts. Te only reason he is home is to marry Fluer.

and to work for the order point taken but i still dont see the banker thing as correct i have a lot of kind of jumbled up reasons which i need to sort through and sort of edit in my mind but thats for another thread.

its possible but i think voldemort is losing support fast every time he makes an attack he usually fails and loses a few DE's each time so he cant lable too many of them expendable anymore or he will have to break those 20 or so DE's from azkaban. so i think they should be executed or moved to somewhere he cant get them because according to the prophesy harry is the only one who can destroy him so he could just walk into azkaban knowing that he wouldnt be caught and just take out the aurors 1 by 1 until he has the prison under his control.

so he has to make his attacks more effective because if he keeps attacking like this and loses 2 or 3 each time at least harry will eventually wear his forces down.
Actually anyone could kill Harry. The prophacy is only important because Voldy t hinks it is important. If he had not believed it, he would not have marked Harry and it would have negated it.
Remember one of the big themes is "Choices". Lily's choice to sacrifice, Harry's choice to become Gryfendor, DD's choice not to tell Harry the truth, ect,ect.

and to work for the order point taken but i still dont see the banker thing as correct i have a lot of kind of jumbled up reasons which i need to sort through and sort of edit in my mind but thats for another thread.
I don't know if it is right either, I was just going with the conversation, but it would help to explain how much money they left Harry. Even if James' parents were rich, it seems like there is alot of gold left.

it actually says that one must die at the hands of the other so the only person who can kill harry is LV and Harry is the only one who can kill LV

no one else

and because LV thinks it is important he will ultimatly fulfill it one way or the other.

so if he keeps attacking with DE's only not with him behind them backing them up his forces will wear thin until or unless he attacks azkaban.

we have drifted way off topic now this is for tracking horcruxes and i dont want to get in trouble so lets continue with that

hey sage thyme i sort of respect you and ive read alot of your posts and agree with you on just about everything i just have one question for you it has been bothering me for a while but i wasnt sure whether to start a thread or what so do you think there is anything curently stopping LV from making more horcruxes because if you ask me he sort of over reacted to the loss of the diary.

the only answer i have been able to come up with is that having his diary released would have made him much more powerful and that now it wasnt possible because he would make another diary and if it got free it might challenge him for power.

I remember melissa asking JKR what would happen if he got free and she responded that it would make him much more powerful.

and what i have as a counter arguement to that is that he is already very powerful and knows that harry is the only one with the power to destroy him but doesnt see him as a curent threat.

You know that Sage isn't really that smart, we have been working on this stuff since the book came out and everyone contributes.
Wait until Luna and I start bogging you down with Egypt refrences, that is our pet location. I wonder If I can find a tarot card with a pyramid or the Sphinx on it :rotfl: .

Cant wait!!:)

and im not saying that sage is the only smart one here but i just see her posts a lot and they kind of stick in my mind and her conclusions along with many others make me think in many different ways and i know she's on this thread a lot so i figured i'd ask her

if i knew how to contact someone else other than owl on here i would have asked them too.

i have asked only two other people and im just comparing answers to see what sounds best to me or if i can mix them in some way and come up with what i find most logical

it actually says that one must die at the hands of the other so the only person who can kill harry is LV and Harry is the only one who can kill LV

no one else

and because LV thinks it is important he will ultimatly fulfill it one way or the other.

so if he keeps attacking with DE's only not with him behind them backing them up his forces will wear thin until or unless he attacks azkaban.

we have drifted way off topic now this is for tracking horcruxes and i dont want to get in trouble so lets continue with that
No, anyone can kill Harry of Voldy, but they won't. String Theory again, One of them has already killed the other at some point in the timeline. Now if Harry was the kind to be foolish enough to think he was invincable and go after Nagini thinking she can;t kill him, he could die, but he won't.
I still like the idea of going through the picture frame in the prefects bathroom to an island hidden in the middle of the lake.Sure there is no canon, but it would be cool.

Cant wait!!:)

and im not saying that sage is the only smart one here but i just see her posts a lot and they kind of stick in my mind and her conclusions along with many others make me think in many different ways and i know she's on this thread a lot so i figured i'd ask her

if i knew how to contact someone else other than owl on here i would have asked them too.

i have asked only two other people and im just comparing answers to see what sounds best to me or if i can mix them in some way and come up with what i find most logical
Well, we have talked about if Voldy would make another Horocrux now that the diary is gone before, but it sort of dies pretty quickly, if he splits it eight times, His magic nuber becomes infinity, something that can not be defined, so he would not really be living if it was split into more than seven pieces. I will have to post the Juggler/Magician Tarot card, his hat is the sign for infinity.

No, anyone can kill Harry of Voldy, but they won't. String Theory again, One of them has already killed the other at some point in the timeline. Now if Harry was the kind to be foolish enough to think he was invincable and go after Nagini thinking she can;t kill him, he could die, but he won't.
I still like the idea of going through the picture frame in the prefects bathroom to an island hidden in the middle of the lake.Sure there is no canon, but it would be cool. i guess thats right i thought that that would be rather unfair if LV could just walk into any area but i guess your right that they wont do anything foolish like that and thats the reason why LV and harry must have the death deul.

im not totally sure i understand what you are saying. are you saying that anybody else could kill them but harry is the only one who will be able to do it?
because thats like saying that no one else will kill harry or LV besides harry or LV.

but LV hasnt reached his goal of 7 horcruxes yet and he knows it because he didnt finish the one with harrys death as far as we know

and the diary was destroyed so he might have made at least 1 more for the one with harrys death that hasnt occured yet.

so isn it possible that he will make another horcrux or is that already accounted for in the ravelclaw or gryffindor item.

No, anyone can kill Harry of Voldy, but they won't. String Theory again, One of them has already killed the other at some point in the timeline. Now if Harry was the kind to be foolish enough to think he was invincable and go after Nagini thinking she can;t kill him, he could die, but he won't.
We aren't going to see multiple timelines or altered time experiences. It's too convoluted and has no place in Potterverse. Things are going resolve in a fairly straightforward manner without undercurrenct of complex subplots.

Let's keep this thread intelligible to people without degrees in physics. Posts should be clear enough and on topic enough that someone who has read the Harry Potter books can pick up the thread of the conversation. I don't know what String theory is in relation to horcruxes and I don't care. Just keep it on topic.

Albania does not have to mean Durmstrang, it just would be nice if we could see both on the same trip. The fur thing with Durmstrang fits, the sunshine thing doesn't... yet.
Actually Albania is so far south that I don't think it gets all that much darker in the winter than in the summer. It's in the far north, for example in Norway, where I live, that the sun stays low on the horizon all day long in winter, and the summer nights are still light. When the sun is behind a mountain, you don't get direct sunlight, but it isn't dark either. I know because I live on a mountainside.

Here (http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?balkans_map.html) is a map that shows Albania. It's on the Mediterranean, right by Italy. Here (http://www.albaniantourism.com/) is a site about the country of Albania. It doesn't fit in with my image of Durmstrang at all. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania).

I'm from Canada, living in California, lived a year in France & a year in Brazil. Isn't the internet wild? I remember a day when there was no internet....*taps cane on floor for emphasis*.

That Albania tourist website cited above is great! Here's a quote about the national park of Lura and it's icy lake with photo, the Black Lake and Black Cave.
“And then, not even a year ago, when I had almost abandoned hope, it happened at last… a servant returned to me. Wormtail here, who had faked his own death to escape justice, was driven out of hiding by those he had once counted friends, and decided to return to his master. He sought me in the country where it had long been rumored I was hiding… helped, of course, by the rats he met along the way. Wormtail has a curious affinity with rats, do you not, Wormtail? His filthy little friends told him there was a place, deep in an Albanian forest, that they avoided, where small animals like themselves had met their deaths by a dark shadow that possessed them…" -- Voldemort (GoF)

Thanks for posting those quotes ComicBookWorm. I took it out of "quote" because I don't like reading italics. Isn't Lura a lot like Luna, our pale, blond (alban), Ravenclaw? I wonder if Albus Dumbledore has family there? That's it, I'm learning Albanian. Good way to kill 2-3 years.

With a surface of 1.280 hectares it is situated in the eastern side of the mountain massive of “Kunora e Lures”. Its 14 icy lakes offer picturesque and attractive environments at an altitude of 1.350-1.720 m. Among the many lakes the one that stand out are the Big Lake 32 hectares, Lake of Pines 13 hectares, Black Lake 8 hectares and Lake of Flowers 4 hectares. In winter these lakes freeze....This park offers various possibilities for developing eco-tourism, winter sports, equitation, horse riding etc.In Albanian Alps,in the northern part, the winters are cold and summers chilly.• Black Cave
Is located near the village of Pellumbas which is in the district of Tirana. It is situated 650 meters above sea level on the gorge of Skorana (Erzeni river). To reach the cave you should walk 2 km in a pedestrian path. The cave has unikal values . There are found the bones of bear of caves (ursus spelaus). This kind of bear has lived from 10.000 to 400.000 years ago. In all european continent there are only five caves from this kind. The black cave is full with stalagtides and stalagmites. The entrance of the cave has a beautiful position , because the visitor can enjoy the open view of the gorge of Erzeni river."I never know," Harry called to Hagrid over the noise of the cart, "what's the difference between a stalagmite and a stalactite?"
"Stalagmite's got an 'm' in it," said Hagrid. "An' don' ask me questions just now, I think I'm gonna be sick."remember that we know from canon that the reason James and Lily were targets was because of Harry. The Dark Lord wanted to kill Harry, and Harry alone. He killed James because he fought. He killed Lily because she wouldn't get out of the way...But it is curious why he took his time with Lily the way he did. He rationally explained to her that she needn't die. Neither she nor the Dark Lord knew that she could save Harry. And what use would she have been to the Dark Lord alive?.
Yes I wonder about this, She must have had something necessary to him, or functional for him. Clearly he couldn't have been motivated by... love. Was she that popular? ...or did he want to mate with her.. was she a female parseltongue ... a cousin... ?

IAs for Durmstrang as a locale for a Horcrux, well, we simply have no info that LV ever visited there...
Good point. And thanks Surry for your list.

No, anyone can kill Harry of Voldy, but they won't. String Theory again.
What's the string theory?

The sword has to be a horcrux, and the mirror of Erised seems very likely also. I think in the book it said they ruled out the snake? hmm...

What's the source for "Scythia - one-eyed people who like Gryffins?" that's from a quote about Gryffins I posted before. I'll see if I can find it. This isn't my original quote, but it's close.

The griffin (also spelled gryphon, gryphen, griffon or gryphin) is a legendary creature with the body of a lion and the head of an eagle with the addition of prominent ears. The female has the wings of an eagle. The griffin is generally represented with four legs, wings and a beak, with eagle-like talons in place of a lion's forelegs and equine ears jutting from its skull. Some writers describe the tail as a serpent...

The tales of the griffins and the Arimaspi of distant Scythia near the cave of Boreas, the North Wind (Geskleithron) were elaborated in the lost archaic poem of Aristeas of Proconnesus, Arimaspea, and eagerly reported by Herodotus and in Pliny's Natural History. (hasn't everyone read these?)

The griffin was said to build a nest, like an eagle. Instead of eggs, it lays agates. The animal was supposed to watch over gold mines and hidden treasures, and to be the enemy of the horse. The incredibly rare offspring of griffin and horse would be called hippogriff.

Griffin was consecrated to the Sun; and ancient painters represented the chariot of the Sun as drawn by griffins. The griffin was a common feature of "animal style" Scythian gold; it was said to inhabit the Scythia steppes that reached from the modern Ukraine to central Asia; there gold and precious stones were abundant; and when strangers approached to gather the stones, the creatures would leap on them and tear them to pieces...

The egg-laying habits of the female were first clearly described by St. Hildegard of Bingen, a German nun author of the 12th century. She outlined how the expectant mother would search out a cave with a very narrow entrance but plenty of room inside, sheltered from the elements. Here she would lay her 3 eggs (about the size of Ostrich eggs), and stand guard over them...

Some large species of Old World vultures are called gryphons, including the griffon vulture (Gyps fulvus), as are some breeds of dog (griffons).

According to John de Bado Aureo (late fourteenth century) “A griffin borne in arms signifies that the first to bear it was a strong pugnacious man in whom were found two distinct natures and qualities, those of the eagle and the lion”. This is clearly fanciful, but since the lion and the eagle were both important charges in heraldry, it is perhaps not surprising that their hybrid, the griffin, was also a frequent choice.

The symbolism of the lion-eagle combination was also the subject of a quotation attributed to Chassaneus by Alexander Nisbet in his System of Heraldry (1722; p 343 of Vol I of the 1816 edn): "Gryphus significat sapientiam jungendam fortitudini, sed sapientiam debere praeire, fortitudinem sequi.". This translates as: “The griffin represents wisdom joined to fortitude, but wisdom should lead, and fortitude follow".

...the City of London griffins are, in fact, heraldic dragons, with scaly bodies and wings, no feathers, and no eagle's beak...

Griffins in Literature...Harry Potter's house (i.e. grouping of pupils) at Hogwarts is called Gryffindor but, oddly, its coat of arms is illustrated as a golden lion and not a golden griffin ("Gryffin d'or") as that name would suggest.

Here's the original quote, from http://www.online-mythology.com

THE Griffin is a monster with the body of a lion, the head and wings of an eagle, and back covered with feathers. Like birds it builds its nest, and instead of an egg lays an agate therein. It has long claws and talons of such a size that the people of that country make them into drinking-cups. India was assigned as the native country of the Griffins. They found gold in the mountains and built their nests of it, for which reason their nests were very tempting to the hunters, and they were forced to keep vigilant guard over them. Their instinct led them to know where buried treasures lay, and they did their best to keep plunderers at a distance. The Arimaspians, among whom the Griffins flourished, were a one-eyed people of Scythia.

The point of this is that Scythia extended into Bulgaria. Also that Mad Eye Moody has only the one (real) eye, or one (magic) eye. He's like a muggle/wizard cyclops. And that Buckbeak's mother or father may be a Gryffin. And that my use of color may be excessive.

I think it's very dodgy trying to work out where Horcruxes might be based on the definitions of things in other books and encyclopedias. I'm sure there are plenty of facts about Albania which could imply that it's cold. THe fact is Durmstrang cannot be there, because of the comment about days getting shorter in winter, so we can rule that out. And that was the reason for needing to show that Albania was cold.

And there's really no need to show that Albania has caves - we know the cave DD and Harry visited was in magical England, not Albania. I'd be more inclined to believe that Albania might be a location for a Horcrux if there was any evidence in the HP series to show that it was particularly significant to LV (other than him floating around in the woods), or if he had a particular location there, like a house or castle, which he might use.

And linking ancient Scythia with Bulgaria? Great research, but I think it's a bit farfetched. We know that JKR takes mystical/magical ideas and changes them to her own ends - like the basilisk in CoS being nothing like the basilisk of non-HP legend, like her theories of ghosts, and like the symbol of Gryffindor being a lion, not a griffon.

So great research, fantastically creative thinking, but I don't think it's helping to locate the remaining horcruxes.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Albania might be a location for a Horcrux if there was any evidence in the HP series to show that it was particularly significant to LV (other than him floating around in the woods), or if he had a particular location there, like a house or castle, which he might use.

And linking ancient Scythia with Bulgaria? Great research, but I think it's a bit farfetched...

So great research, fantastically creative thinking, but I don't think it's helping to locate the remaining horcruxes.

*clunk* head slips out of hand onto table. *bam* lifeless body hits the floor
*moaning* ... cave... hippogriff ... one eye ...
Husband from other room: "Honey, get off the internet."

Okay, we've decided that the forest we are looking for is in Albania. If someone could get a population desinty map of Albania we could look for forests with very few-to no people around them.
I actually disagree that Voldemort is getting weaker: the only time he seems to lose death eaters is when they go toe-to-toe with the Order of the Pheonix, and then the Order always takes deaths or serious injuries as well. Other than that, all their attacks on muggles, their assassinations, etc have gone unstopped and without even any resistance.

From this (http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/albania/albania89.html) site:Forests

Albania has soils and a climate favorable to an extensive lumber industry. Although the postwar government invested heavily in afforestation, it developed an inefficient wood products industry. In the early 1990s, the thickest woodlands were in the central and northern mountain ranges. The country's southern half was mostly deforested, a consequence of the clear-cutting of oak trees to build the merchant ships of old Venice and Dubrovnik, the destruction of woodlands to create pastures, the burning of wood for fuel, and the expansion of villages onto hillsides. Albania's nine state forestry industry complexes produced an estimated 2.3 million cubic meters of roundwood annually between 1976 and 1988; its twenty-eight sawmills cut about 200,000 cubic meters of wood annually between 1977 and 1988. Outdated sawmills, however, wasted raw materials and were situated too far from sources of raw materials. The pulp, paper, and fiberboard industries enjoyed little competitive advantage and did considerable environmental damage. The country's high dependency on wood for heating--amounting to 100 percent of household energy needs in mountainous areas and over 90 percent in the cities in 1991--contributed to the overexploitation of forests. Unchecked cutting by people so desperate for fuel that they hacked tree stumps to below ground level caused serious damage to woodlands.

Data as of April 1992



This site (http://www.mapsofworld.com/country-profile/albania.html) is also worth looking at.

And here (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/europe/albania/albania.htm) is a map, although I can't find one that actually shows forests.

Here (http://enrin.grida.no/biodiv/biodiv/national/albania/intro.htm) is a good site about Albania.

Finally, back on topic. Honestly, over half of the last forty posts belong in the Identifying the Remaining Horcruxes (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=75097) thread.

This just blows my whole Dark Forest is the reason we're going to Albania theory right out of the bloody water!!! ARGHHHHSurry, dear, don’t worry, Albania is still an excellent choice for an horcrux location. Just because I was trying to keep the name Dark Forest out of canon, doesn’t mean I was fighting against it. I’m the biggest supporter I know, but lindaluna's last few posts above were really excellent.

In Albanian Alps,in the northern part, the winters are cold and summers chilly.It does get chilly there, but not at all the climate that we see from the Durmstrang students. I'm not suggesting that is where you were going with the quote, rather I'm trying to post something against the old Durmstrang-must-be-in-Albania-and-that's-where-Harry-will-find-one-of-the-horcruxes theory before it starts creeping up again. I think all of the Albania supporters agree that it is just bad evidence for a perfectly good theory.

And there's really no need to show that Albania has caves - we know the cave DD and Harry visited was in magical England, not Albania. I'd be more inclined to believe that Albania might be a location for a Horcrux if there was any evidence in the HP series to show that it was particularly significant to LV (other than him floating around in the woods), or if he had a particular location there, like a house or castle, which he might use.



Albania is not a suitable option for a place to hold a horcrux.
Or perhaps, it did hold one, in Nagini (whom Voldemort befriended during his exile) who now enjoys life in England.
Also, the cave is not in Albania, because it is the cave which Voldemort had once visited when a child, with his two companions.
I don't think orphanages undertook little picnics to coasts and beaches of a foreign country.

LV's long windy speech in GoF:

And then the only other reference to Quirrell pre-SS/PS is this from Hagrid: Generic Intro to Quirrell's classroom: We can't know if he ran into any vampires anyway since the garlic was a cover story for Voldy's BO under the turban (which a cover story itself).

Frankly I think that the Lexicon has mixed the Black Forest and Albanian forest when they say LV has gone there twice.I don't believe that Quirrell and LV met up in the Black forest....and LV himself tells us that he 'returned' to the forest he'd made his home."I settled in a faraway place, in a forest, and I waited..."
=====
"A wizard---young, foolish, and gullible----wandered across my path in the forest I had made my home."
=====
"The servant died when I left his body, and I was left as weak as ever I had been," Voldemort continued. "I returned to my hiding place far away....""What interests me most," said Dumbledore gently, " is how Lord Voldemort managed to enchant Ginny, when my sources tell me he is currently in hiding in the forests of Albania.""...a servant returned to me. Wormtail here, who had faked his own death to escape justice, was driven out of hiding by those he had once counted friends, and decided to return to his master. He sought me in the country where it had long been rumored I was hiding..."
=====
"His filthy little friends told him there was a place, deep in an Albanian forest, that they avoided, where small animals like themselves had met their deaths by a dark shadow that possessed them…"And there's really no need to show that Albania has caves - we know the cave DD and Harry visited was in magical England, not Albania. I'd be more inclined to believe that Albania might be a location for a Horcrux if there was any evidence in the HP series to show that it was particularly significant to LV (other than him floating around in the woods), or if he had a particular location there, like a house or castle, which he might use.The question about Alabania though, is what was so special about it? And why did LV return there. He could have hidden just about anywhere and not been located, so why return to Albania? And when did LV acquire his knowledge of Albania, so as to be almost confortably confident that he could remain undetected there rather than anywhere else. Also, why would he expect his followers to find him there at all?

I believe Albania is a very big possibility for a Horcrux or info on a Horcrux.

http://www.frosina.org/culturehistory/eagle.asp

Is it me or is the eagle reminiscent of Fawkes?

Albania is not a suitable option for a place to hold a horcrux.
Or perhaps, it did hold one, in Nagini (whom Voldemort befriended during his exile) who now enjoys life in England.
Also, the cave is not in Albania, because it is the cave which Voldemort had once visited when a child, with his two companions.
I don't think orphanages undertook little picnics to coasts and beaches of a foreign country.The caves to which lindaluna was refering were caves in Albania, not the one in which we know the Dark Lord hid an horcrux, somewhere on the coast of England. They're two different locations, so that's no reason to discredit the Albania theory.

I don't believe that Quirrell and LV met up in the Black forest....and LV himself tells us that he 'returned' to the forest he'd made his home.Where were you earlier when I needed all of those quotes! I'm a really bad translater, and all I have are the Italian books!

I don't think that CBW meant that they met up in the Black Forest of Germany. We were just discussing how a lot of people get that confused because of the comment Hagrid made to Harry in Chapter 5 of Philosopher's Stone. I also just realised that nowhere in canon is there mentioned the 'Dark' Forest, rather that has become fanon, but it would be more correct to call it the Forests of Albania.

I'm with you all the way that the Dark Lord returned to the Forests of Albania which he called his 'home' after Harry defeated him in Philosopher's Stone. I also speculate further that he must have been there before he was blasted to smitherenes by his own curse, or else why would he have felt so comfortable going there? And how would Wormtail have found him so quickly, unless it was a place that they had been before?

I think it's very dodgy trying to work out where Horcruxes might be based on the definitions of things in other books and encyclopedias. I'm sure there are plenty of facts about Albania which could imply that it's cold. THe fact is Durmstrang cannot be there, because of the comment about days getting shorter in winter, so we can rule that out. And that was the reason for needing to show that Albania was cold.

And there's really no need to show that Albania has caves - we know the cave DD and Harry visited was in magical England, not Albania. I'd be more inclined to believe that Albania might be a location for a Horcrux if there was any evidence in the HP series to show that it was particularly significant to LV (other than him floating around in the woods), or if he had a particular location there, like a house or castle, which he might use.

And linking ancient Scythia with Bulgaria? Great research, but I think it's a bit farfetched. We know that JKR takes mystical/magical ideas and changes them to her own ends - like the basilisk in CoS being nothing like the basilisk of non-HP legend, like her theories of ghosts, and like the symbol of Gryffindor being a lion, not a griffon.

So great research, fantastically creative thinking, but I don't think it's helping to locate the remaining horcruxes.
You summed up everything that I was going to say. So I'll just say... yeah... yeah.

Albania was undergoing politcal turmoil in the 1990s (end of communism, Balkan war) and was a good place to hide. Prior to that it was a totalitarian communist country and not such a good place to hide. During the Balkan war, refugees were flooding into Albania, and strangers and strange things could go unnoticed.

He may indeed have some reason for placing a horcrux there, but we have no evidence he was ever something besides Vapormort while there. And we still have no evidence he went there before Godric's Hollow.

Orphanage - all we know is that it is in London, in a "grim square" building. Harry's been there of course. He may pass it and recognize it.

Countryside location where kids went from orphanage - snakes came to Voldemort & talked to him. No other information.

The cave came into being as a location entirely in book 6. Hopefully we've seen all the other locations, but there isn't much canon to go by. For creepy locations that could hide dark magic, all I can think of based on discussed creepyness & association to Voldemort in the books are:
- Riddle House
- Graveyard where Cedric died
- Gaunt House (used up already)
- 12 Grimmauld
- Orphanage
- Chamber of Secrets (used up already)
- countryside location kids went (based on cave creepiness)
- Borgin & Burkes.
- Crouch House. (who inherited that?)

And Malfoy manor, which we know has it's own chamber of secrets in the dining room.

The Crouch house is interesting.

Room of Requirement needs to be on that list.

For creepy locations that could hide dark magic, all I can think of based on discussed creepyness & association to Voldemort in the books are:
- Riddle House
- Graveyard where Cedric died
- Gaunt House (used up already)
- 12 Grimmauld
- Orphanage
- Chamber of Secrets (used up already)
- countryside location kids went (based on cave creepiness)
- Borgin & Burkes.
- Crouch House. (who inherited that?)

I would like to add Nottingham (sight of the goblin murder)

Definitely.

This is an off-the-wall suggestion that I don't really believe myself, but I thought I'd throw it out there. What about the mountains where the giants are? I have faith that JKR will tie in Grawp in some way shape or form (please please please let there be some reason that we've had to endure Grawp...) and since the mountains and caves outside of Hogsmeade were listed, why not these mountains as well? No canon to support that really, except maybe the fact that the giants were on LV's side in the first war as well.

About the Room of Requirement, here's a list of everything that was specifically mentioned as being in it, in it's "Hiding Things" variation. This might also belong in the "identifying" thread, but I thought it would be useful to look for any suspicious links here to either substantiate or detract from the theory.

Broken furniture
Thousands of Books
Fanged Frisbees
Winged Catapults
Bottles of congealed potion
Hats
Jewels
Cloaks
Dragon Eggshells
Bottles with evily shimmering contents
Rusting swords
A Bloodstained Axe
Stuffed Troll
Broken Vanishing Cabinet
Large Cuboard (acid damaged) containing a Quintaped Skeleton, in Cage
Chipped bust of an Ugly Warlock
Dusty Old Wig
Tarnished Tiara

Note the Rowling has said there will be something important in the castle, in a room Harry doesn't realize the significance of. Whether it is the room of requirement or not is open to debate.

The sword has to be a horcrux, and the mirror of Erised seems very likely also. I think in the book it said they ruled out the snake? hmm...


i say the mirror is totally out 100%.

in SS/PS LV encountered it for the 1st time and didnt know its powers he also didnt know what it was where it was and he didnt have a body so he couldnt have cast the spell and therefor it cannot be a HX

i've heard that the tiara in RoR is a HX can anyone explain that plz?

Note the Rowling has said there will be something important in the castle, in a room Harry doesn't realize the significance of. Whether it is the room of requirement or not is open to debate.

This is very interesting...do you have a link or more information about when she said this?

The theory on the RoR Tiara as I understand it: It's a Tiara that is made of silver, a metal which (correct me if I'm wrong) is associated with air, Ravenclaws element. Further, it goes on your head and we assume that any Ravenclaw item's reputed powers would involve enhancing wit or intelligence. Personally, I don't think that that Tiara is the horcrux. I think that the Goblins Voldemort killed in Nottingham had the Horcrux, and that it was something that goblins had made in the first place. From what we know of Goblin metalwork, it is almost always magical: they can even make things indestructible. So I highly doubt they would allow any of their worksmanship to tarnish.

This is very interesting...do you have a link or more information about when she said this?

All I can remember is that it was in an interview I found in Quick Quotes quill, but I have heard it refferenced by several other people.

The theory on the RoR Tiara as I understand it: It's a Tiara that is made of silver, a metal which (correct me if I'm wrong) is associated with air, Ravenclaws element. Further, it goes on your head and we assume that any Ravenclaw item's reputed powers would involve enhancing wit or intelligence. Personally, I don't think that that Tiara is the horcrux. I think that the Goblins Voldemort killed in Nottingham had the Horcrux, and that it was something that goblins had made in the first place. From what we know of Goblin metalwork, it is almost always magical: they can even make things indestructible. So I highly doubt they would allow any of their worksmanship to tarnish.

thanks i guess the tiara thin is possible but that is not solid proof that it is ravenclaws and i doubt LV would have recognized it as being a ravenclaw item.

plus theres the thing about dragon egg shells so he probably wouldnt leave a HX in there because dragons could break it.

The dragons aren't actually in there. There probably wouldn't be much left of the room if they were. But someone, like Hagrid, hatched a dragon illegally and then stuffed the shells in the room to hide them.

I'm more interested in the Nottingham Goblins. From what we know of Goblins, Rowena seems like she would have had a lot in common with them and might have gotten on well with the Goblins of the time. Goblins are clever, intelligent, logical, and powerfully magical, all the qualities Rowena valued in her students. So it is not unreasonable to assume that either she gave them some gift or they gave her something which was at a latter date returned to the goblins. And it sounds, from the way it was discussed, that the goblins in Nottingham were among the only ones killed in the war.

The dragons aren't actually in there. There probably wouldn't be much left of the room if they were. But someone, like Hagrid, hatched a dragon illegally and then stuffed the shells in the room to hide them.

I'm more interested in the Nottingham Goblins. From what we know of Goblins, Rowena seems like she would have had a lot in common with them and might have gotten on well with the Goblins of the time. Goblins are clever, intelligent, logical, and powerfully magical, all the qualities Rowena valued in her students. So it is not unreasonable to assume that either she gave them some gift or they gave her something which was at a latter date returned to the goblins. And it sounds, from the way it was discussed, that the goblins in Nottingham were among the only ones killed in the war.


i agree the goblins seem more likly, much more likly :tu:

and i was thinking a second ago that the dragons probably werent there even if they did stay in there they'd probably be dead by now from starvation if nothing else.

Yeah, the quintaped was dead too, and quintapeds are exteremely dangerous because they are as intelligent as people.

Note the Rowling has said there will be something important in the castle, in a room Harry doesn't realize the significance of. Whether it is the room of requirement or not is open to debate.


She said that if she could go to Hogwarts she would go straight to a room mentioned in Book 4 that Harry doesn't know the significance of yet. But since she said it pre-OotP I think it means the RoR as we know it and not anything more complex.

Wasn't there another quote from her though, about some room that will be important? My memory isn't perfect but I'm fairly sure I remember something other than that. Could someone check this?

This is an off-the-wall suggestion that I don't really believe myself, but I thought I'd throw it out there. What about the mountains where the giants are? I have faith that JKR will tie in Grawp in some way shape or form.

I think it's got as much canon support as anything. Giants definitely WERE Voldie defenders the last time out (VW1), and Hagrid went to the giants via MINSK. And they'd be nasty bouncers guarding something.

i say the mirror is totally out 100%.

in SS/PS LV encountered it for the 1st time and didnt know its powers he also didnt know what it was where it was and he didnt have a body so he couldnt have cast the spell and therefor it cannot be a HXGood point!
This is an off-the-wall suggestion that I don't really believe myself, but I thought I'd throw it out there. What about the mountains where the giants are? I have faith that JKR will tie in Grawp in some way shape or form (please please please let there be some reason that we've had to endure Grawp...) and since the mountains and caves outside of Hogsmeade were listed, why not these mountains as well? No canon to support that really, except maybe the fact that the giants were on LV's side in the first war as well.As you say, there isn't much canon to back this up. The trio can Apparate now, so distance shouldn't be too much of a problem, but the giants seem savage and loyal only to themselves, so I wouldn't think that Voldemort would want to entrust a Horcrux to them. Also, Voldemort likes prestigious objects and seems to hide them in symbolic places - his "ancestral home" and the cave where he (presumably) first tortured someone. I don't see that the home of the giants would fit that pattern. And there has to be a pattern here. If the Horcruxes are hidden in random places, then they could be absolutely anywhere. There has to be a logical trail for Harry to find and follow.

I wrote before the book was published that I thought Voldemort might have divided his soul, thus becoming a Lich (D&D, anybody :p ? ). I had a thought that might still last - seing as Harry and LV have linked wands, it would be an interessting scenario if the final Horcrux was LV's wand.

I do not have any proof, other than the showdown in Book 4, when the wands connected. I found this duel very interessting as it gave Harry a chance to beat him. Could it happen again? Their wands connecting and breaking and Harry beating him by other means. Help from his friends (his love), perhaps? :tu: / :td: ?

Voldemort likes prestigious objects and seems to hide them in symbolic places - his "ancestral home" and the cave where he (presumably) first tortured someone. I don't see that the home of the giants would fit that pattern. And there has to be a pattern here. If the Horcruxes are hidden in random places, then they could be absolutely anywhere. There has to be a logical trail for Harry to find and follow.
that's an excellent point, and i also think there's another timeline that parallels the concealment pattern - the Horcrux trail has to follow Tom Riddle's magical evolution, the development of his powers and greater thirst for immortality... we have the locket and cup, reminiscent of his period working at B&B, we have the diary, reminiscent of his Hogwarts days, and his discovery of the "heir of Slytherin" legacy, we have Nagini as possibly (?) the time he was compelled to delve in the forest and possess animals in order to survive (and obviously willing himself to survive was a huge accomplishment in his own eyes)...i think the remaining Horcruxes should also follow the "evolution of powers" time pattern, fill in the gaps as it were...

that's an excellent point, and i also think there's another timeline that parallels the concealment pattern - the Horcrux trail has to follow Tom Riddle's magical evolution, the development of his powers and greater thirst for immortality... we have the locket and cup, reminiscent of his period working at B&B, we have the diary, reminiscent of his Hogwarts days, and his discovery of the "heir of Slytherin" legacy, we have Nagini as possibly (?) the time he was compelled to delve in the forest and possess animals in order to survive (and obviously willing himself to survive was a huge accomplishment in his own eyes)...i think the remaining Horcruxes should also follow the "evolution of powers" time pattern, fill in the gaps as it were...Excellent! So Harry will probably be finding out more about Voldemort's "missing years". We know he travelled far and wide during that time, but we have to look for places and people that were important to him. Trouble is, we know absolutely nothing at all about those years, so we haven't got much to go on yet. I wonder if Harry will continue Dumbledore's research, or if he will take another approach.

I think it's got as much canon support as anything. Giants definitely WERE Voldie defenders the last time out (VW1), and Hagrid went to the giants via MINSK. And they'd be nasty bouncers guarding something.
I doubt LV would entrust a giant with guarding a Horcrux. They are quite stupid and would probably accidently destroy it, present it as a gift to someone else or lose it to another giant in a battle, what would cause troubles to find it again. I regard it more likely that LV created complicated magical protections similar to those he made up in the gaunt shack and in the cave.