The Veil: What do you think its like?

I had a thread on this but I was told to ask it here so " what would happen if a ghost went through the veil"

Hi. To answer you, I don't think a ghost could get into a veil, because a ghost is not a material object, that can be touched and he would probably would appear on the other side of the veil if some ghost would try to go through the veil.

I think their is a way to go through the veil without dieing!...Remember the potion Harry made in slughorns class..."The Draught of Living Death"...I think that whoever drinks it will somehow be still alive but be dead for a while...Maybe Harry will drink it and be able to walk through the Veil without dieing! And he will be able to talk to Sirius!..And since harry used the Half-blood princes book to make the potion maybe snape will be the one who makes it for him!....I think whats behind the Veil is the spiritworld or something!...

I think their is a way to go through the veil without dieing!...Remember the potion Harry made in slughorns class..."The Draught of Living Death"...I think that whoever drinks it will somehow be still alive but be dead for a while...Maybe Harry will drink it and be able to walk through the Veil without dieing! And he will be able to talk to Sirius!..And since harry used the Half-blood princes book to make the potion maybe snape will be the one who makes it for him!....I think whats behind the Veil is the spiritworld or something!...

Hi. Your theory is quite good. But there is no way of getting out of the veil, otherwise Sirius would have got back. So Harry would be stuck in it forever, if he goes to talk to Sirius. :)

Hi. Your theory is quite good. But there is no way of getting out of the veil, otherwise Sirius would have got back. So Harry would be stuck in it forever, if he goes to talk to Sirius. :)



Well anythings possible!..I think Harry will find a way to go through the veil and with Hermione on his side i dont think it would be that hard!:p

Hi. Maybe you are right. We can except anything from J.K.Rowling. ;)

I had a thread on this but I was told to ask it here so " what would happen if a ghost went through the veil"
Since I believe the veil is something like a portal to the afterlife/a place of limbo between living and dead, I believe that ghosts would be able to access the world through the veil, especially if it is a portal to the afterlife. Therefore, whatever is behind the veil could be accessed by the ghosts, but they could choose to pass through it if they wished. (Just my theory, of course).
Hi. Your theory is quite good. But there is no way of getting out of the veil, otherwise Sirius would have got back. So Harry would be stuck in it forever, if he goes to talk to Sirius. :)
MAGICicalMUggle's theory was that once you go through the veil, you are dead (I believe). Thus, that is why he said:
I think their is a way to go through the veil without dieing!
Therefore, this suggests that one dies upon entering the veil. Therefore, once dead, they cannot escape from the veil. However, if Harry goes through the veil alive then he would be able to come back through it alive. However, I must disagree with his theory, for the Draught of Living Death causes the drinker to fall into an incredibly deep sleep. Thus, I do not think that Harry would be able to do anything effective while asleep, even if he went through the veil.

Therefore, this suggests that one dies upon entering the veil. Therefore, once dead, they cannot escape from the veil. However, if Harry goes through the veil alive then he would be able to come back through it alive. However, I must disagree with his theory, for the Draught of Living Death causes the drinker to fall into an incredibly deep sleep. Thus, I do not think that Harry would be able to do anything effective while asleep, even if he went through the veil.


Well i have once read a book(i forgot the name) but its about the meaning of dreams and i remember them saying that while you sleep/dream your soul leaves your body and travels to anywhere it wants even the spiritworld or even the different dimensions in the underworld!...my guess is that the draught of living death will allow Harrys soul to leave his body for a while and travel to the spiritworld or to whatever is behind the veil!...And he will be able to come back if just his soul goes through it while sleeping but if he goes there with his mortal body he will of course die and there is no way for him to get back from behind the veil!

here's my take on the veil. In ancient celtic mythology the gods were banished to the otherworld and had to pass through a veil that was hidden underground. (well, one of the entrances, there was more than one, all said to be underground, so mortals could not find them!) I think that this is the veil and that the MOM was built AROUND the veil. (remember that the MOM is underground) The setup of the "seating" was put there for the Unspeakable to sit and study the veil, as they are using it to study death.

The only ones that could pass back and forth between the otherworld and the mortal world were the gods, normal humans were killed, but some heroes did manage to travel there and back.

here's my take on the veil. In ancient celtic mythology the gods were banished to the otherworld and had to pass through a veil that was hidden underground. (well, one of the entrances, there was more than one, all said to be underground, so mortals could not find them!) I think that this is the veil and that the MOM was built AROUND the veil. (remember that the MOM is underground) The setup of the "seating" was put there for the Unspeakable to sit and study the veil, as they are using it to study death.

The only ones that could pass back and forth between the otherworld and the mortal world were the gods, normal humans were killed, but some heroes did manage to travel there and back.


WOW, That is interesting, I never knew that, This may be the answer I was looking for,
But we may all be wrong.! We will have to wait and see! :drool:

I've been wondering of this in a while.

Bewitched by the veil:

- Harry
- Luna
- Ginny
- Neville

Not bewitched:

- Ron
- Hermione

1. What does Harry, Luna, Ginny and Neville have in common?

2. Why is the veil only bewitching some, and not all?

I've been wondering about this too. Harry, Luna, and Neville are the ones who can see thestrals and therefore have seen death, and it would make sense if it was just those three, but why Ginny? I highly doubt she has witnessed death and can actually see thestrals, so there is obviously some reason for it, but I really don't know what. I sort of doubt that all four of them will die and Ron and Hermione will survive. Not only will I be a bit disatisfied with that, it also makes it too obvious, looking back.

I've been wondering about this too. Harry, Luna, and Neville are the ones who can see thestrals and therefore have seen death, and it would make sense if it was just those three, but why Ginny? I highly doubt she has witnessed death and can actually see thestrals, so there is obviously some reason for it, but I really don't know what. I sort of doubt that all four of them will die and Ron and Hermione will survive. Not only will I be a bit disatisfied with that, it also makes it too obvious, looking back.
I wonder if the reason Ginny was mesmerised by the veil is something to do with her significance as the Seventh child? Maybe she has some extra magical prowess that gives her the ability to hear things others can't?

Maybe all the people who have died to save someone else. Or something close to that.

Has anyone ever wondered that just maybe there's another veil? A white veil? Because isn't there always two of everything? Like Gandalf and Sauron from the LOTR trilogy - pure good and pure evil. The black veil - pure evil. The white veil - pure good. So maybe there's a white veil... the veil of life! Because the black veil is the veil of death! Wouldn't that work out? I'd like to hear some opinions on this.

**Check out more about this on my fanfic, near the ending. I recently posted about it.

If you are correct it could be the Magical World's heaven and hell. JKR is Christian and that would be good symbolism

JK has said she will NOT discuss any matters of faith and it's relation to Harry Potter until the last book is out.
As for the White Veil if there is one it's not to be found on Earth because there if there was a veil of life then that would be a means to raise the dead - which is impossible. Even if there is a white veil then it must sit there dorment for the above reasons.

Luna mentioned something at the end of OotP, but that may have already been mentioned in this thread. I just skimmed it. Dont have my book right now, but if anyone finds the quote, can they post it?

There might be a way to go through the veil without dying, but that's not what I was getting to. I think that everyone who's behind the veil is... stuck. Between life and death. Their not dead... yet their not alive. Jo also said the two-way mirrors are coming back. So maybe Harry could use the mirrors to give to Sirius behind the veil. But someone would have to sacrifice themself so that they could get the mirror behind the veil.

But someone would have to sacrifice themself so that they could get the mirror behind the veil.

Not if they just throw it in, hoping it hits Sirius on the head and that he notices it :p

Not if they just throw it in, hoping it hits Sirius on the head and that he notices it :p
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I think it's very probable that Sirius already had his mirror with him when he fell through the Veil. I imagine him sitting at home in Grimmauld Place, hoping that Harry would try and contact him, therefore I think he would have kept his mirror with him at all times, just in case.

Heres a thought...Voldemort is so desperate to cling onto life, maybe if he does die he may come back as a ghost? Harry would truly have to destroy Voldemorts soul to stop him coming back in a ghost form.

True a ghost Voldemort would not be able to kill, but he could still rally death eaters and dark creatures...

I disagree I think if Voldemort became a ghost his power would break, most Death Eaters follow him through fear he's no threat as a ghost.
Miss Padfoot, I don't think the "mirrors" are coming back remember Harry destroyed his, just possibly the partner.

Understandable Horcrux_Hate. The mirrors do actually return in the seventh book though, as it is confirmed by mugglenet.

http://mugglenet.com/books/futurebooks/book7/confirmed.shtml

I disagree I think if Voldemort became a ghost his power would break, most Death Eaters follow him through fear he's no threat as a ghost.
Miss Padfoot, I don't think the "mirrors" are coming back remember Harry destroyed his, just possibly the partner.
I would have answered - but TheResearcher beat me to it! :lol: I thought that Harry destroyed his too, so that meant the mirrors wouldn't return - but JKR proved me wrong! :lol:

that might be BIT far-fetched, but i agree it is very intriguing that it was set up like a lecture theatre or similar. this is definately unfinished business in the DoM, what with the locked room and all that. maybe even if they go in just to look at the veil again and it gives someone an idea, or they discover a clue. what was the veil hanging from btw? i haven't got my copy with me, but i have an image of a wooden archway with carvings on it. might just be me though...

I think the set up of the room is for an audience to sit and watch a death being carried out execution style. It used to be a spectacle and executions were always available for the public eye. In the wizarding worl, it wouldn't be used as such nowadays, but it probably had been in the past. Spooky.

I disagree I think if Voldemort became a ghost his power would break, most Death Eaters follow him through fear he's no threat as a ghost.

This makes sense. But take into consideration that Peeves can cause physical harm....he's a poltergeist, right?

[QUOTE=AlasEarWax;3290030

I also wondered if you could like peek into the veil but not actually go through it. There has to be a way to see whats in there.

QUOTE]


Thats what I thought.....what would happen if you just sorta pulled it back? would you get sort of, sucked in? or you could always get some sort of erm...stick or something to do it for you. Or one of those litter picker up things people use for community service.

Not that thats likely to happen in a Harry Potter book, I guess its just too simple an idea.

Would be good tho :D :tu:

But yeah, I think that Harry should go to Lupin about it, because he must know something...I'm really surprised that he hasnt properly asked someone about whats behind it yet...

Yeah I can't wait to find out about the veil. I think it will definitely play a big role in the next book.
I wouldn't want to be the one who had to find out what happened if you tried to peek throught the veil though.

I think that we will certainly revisit the veil in Deathly Hallows, if nothing else, because it is never explained by any character, yet it plays such an important (albeit mysterious) role in OtP. I will speculate as to what is beyond the veil, and what purpose it may serve in resolving the series.

Dumbledore called the room with the veil the "Death Chamber"

I think the American cover shows a scene beyond the veil- (old arches, the curtains, the blue light on the wood like the dept of mysteries, etc.). This seems to be a different realm- possibly a world between ours and death. I think it would put an interesting in to the series if Harry does not die, but if he lives forever beyond the veil- where Sirius and maybe even the rest of his family (e.g. Lily and James, maybe DD) are.

It is worth noting that "Beyond the Veil" is a vital part of Old Testament Biblical theology. In Moses's Tabernacle, there was a Holy place where sacrifices and offerings were made. Within the Holy Place was a room that was seperated from the tabernacle by a veil that covered what was known as the Holy of Holies, or the Most Holy Place. The Israelite High Priest would venture beyond the veil once a year (like on Hallows Eve wear the realm between the living and the dead is closest?) to offer Sacrifices to God. The Israelites would tie a rope to the high preist, so that if he died in the Holy of Holies, they could pull him out, because anyone besides the high priest who tried to pass beyond the veil would instantly be killed. Is it possible that there are certain individuals in Harry Potter who can enter the veil without veing killed? Mrs. Rowling has said that she doesn't think the books are that secular, so is it possible that the Veil from the Bible is a basis for the veil in HP?

The Veil certainly seems to be a portal of some sort- becuase Sirius falls through it but does not come out the other side.



Certain Mysterious Traits about the Veil

What could the whispers be?

Why does it ripple as if someone is touching it?

Well, here's my two cents...

Okay. When Sirius falls in the veil he takes "an age to fall." This could very well be (and probably is) an illusion to Harry because Sirius is dying and all that. Sirius falls backwards and can't seem to fight the force of the veil at all. Even so, wouldn't he simply fall with half his body out of the veil unless there was something pulling on the other side?

Something interesting (I got this idea from someone mentioning black holes on this thread) is that around a black hole, there is something called an event horizon. A black hole is a place of such density that gravity is incredibly strong; so strong, in fact, that it traps light itself and literally distorts time. It bends space time or something like that. So, the veil may be a spot of incredible magical power, instead of gravity. Now, what its role will be is a mystery, but hey... just an idea.

Sorry if something like this has already been posted.


As for one of 20ofdecember's questions... Why did it ripple? That is actually quite creepy if you think about it. The veil ripples after Sirus falls through. Why would it ripple in an airless room when nothing is apparently happening to it like when Harry first sees it? If the veil is, as some people think, a portal to the dead, then someone or something either went the way Sirius did or somehow came back out. Unless the room is air conditioned (somehow I doubt that ;)) then there is no explanation I can think of.

I see it as 'a half way house'...a time for thinking about where you want to go from there? To become a ghost...or the other alternative! A higher plane.

I would have answered - but TheResearcher beat me to it! :lol: I thought that Harry destroyed his too, so that meant the mirrors wouldn't return - but JKR proved me wrong! :lol:

As I recall JKR's word's were " don't want to talk about that mirror" but I can't check as I've lost/mislaid the site.
But the mugglenet page says mirror singular - and refereencing it simply presupposes they've interpreted the writed correctly.

I see it as 'a half way house'...a time for thinking about where you want to go from there? To become a ghost...or the other alternative! A higher plane.

It might be some type of sheol existence. I wonder what would happen if Harry put Voldemort's horcruxes through it-sure way to kill the soulbits right? It might be risky though since we really don't know much about the veil. Luna seems to think she will "see them again" which makes me wonder about the nature of that veil....

This makes sense. But take into consideration that Peeves can cause physical harm....he's a poltergeist, right?

Yes, he is a poltergeist, not a ghost. The difference is (i believe) Peeves was never alive. He never had a body, unlike a ghost. Voldemort would not be a poltergeist, just a ghost (possibly). The worst he could do is haunt someone and make them shudder when he passes through them.:cool:

I think it is basically a giant swirling vortex. It is probably close to pergatory in the Catholic faith, where you are waiting to get in to heaven, or its basically limbo. I don't think anyone in there is exactly dead, but you can't get them out...that's for sure.

It states that the DOM has been trying to learn about death. The room the Veil was in was set up like an stadium... the Veil was at the bottom with stadium seating circled around it. I think that it is death that is found in the Veil... that if you cross through it, you cant get back out... that you die... but I think that is also where the DOM is trying to learn about death... maybe its a gateway allowing the dead to speak to the living... and in return... the living to speak to the dead...

i was just reading this article somewhere and the author has really explained what she thinks is happening. and after reading it i just figured out something. could it be that the VEIL in mention is an anagram for EVIL which Harry have to be in order to deafeat You-Know-Who?

he could've used the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix but it didn't work. instead Bella taunted him and said that he should mean the curse to inflict pain. so pain might turn Harry a wee bit evil in order to defeat You-Know-Who and survive?

I find it strange since Hermione sensed it was dangerous, even though she doesn't hear the voices. I would be the same, I would not touch it. Ron's reaction probably leads him to his death in Deathly Hallows.

I believe it leads to the after life. Simply because Nearly Headless said that the Ministry studies death in the dept. of Mystery. So it would make very much sense that they would think he's dead if he crossed in to the next life after falling behind the veil.
Also, another thing that points to this is the fact that Luna says that they were the dearly departed speaking in the Veil room...
Simple really.

I am sorry if this has already been discussed, but i am having a difficult time understanding the veil in the department of mysteries. please dont tell me to re-read book 5 because i have twice. i do understand that harry and luna heard voices behind it and serious dissappeared behind it after he was killed. please help me understand what it looks like and what exactly it is.

I am sorry if this has already been discussed, but i am having a difficult time understanding the veil in the department of mysteries. please dont tell me to re-read book 5 because i have twice. i do understand that harry and luna heard voices behind it and serious dissappeared behind it after he was killed. please help me understand what it looks like and what exactly it is.

It states that the DOM has been trying to learn about death. The room the Veil was in was set up like an stadium... the Veil was at the bottom with stadium seating circled around it. I think that it is death that is found in the Veil... that if you cross through it, you cant get back out... that you die... but I think that is also where the DOM is trying to learn about death... maybe its a gateway allowing the dead to speak to the living... and in return... the living to speak to the dead...

Do you guys think that the Dementors place the souls they suck out of a person, into the veil?
Suely the Dementors don't keep the souls inside them, souls can be happy and cheerful, which is dangerous to a Dementor. Also maybe this is why the veil is kept in the DoM

I get what you mean and even i thought that, but how will it get through into the veil?
once the dementors have sucked the happiness out of you , i don't thnk the sould will be happ and cheerful.
And before you asked whether we could get the souls back from the veil, nice idea :tu:, but how?
Someone will have to go in to get it out, and that won't work through the veil.

I think the veil is commplet darkness. It's nothing. It's like flooting.

:pI get what you mean and even i thought that, but how will it get through into the veil?
once the dementors have sucked the happiness out of you , i don't thnk the sould will be happ and cheerful.
And before you asked whether we could get the souls back from the veil, nice idea :tu:, but how?
Someone will have to go in to get it out, and that won't work through the veil.

Thanks mate.
Well that's the thing I'm not sure if you can get the souls back out, I'm thinking we would get the anwser in the 7th book.
You know you said that the souls wouldn't be happy once they've been taken out.. leads me to another theory. You think that's how Dementors are made? The lost souls taken out from people. I dont think the Dementors hold on onto them, think they convert them into more Dementors?
Okay this is completely going agaisnt my placing them into the veil theory now, but I like the converting into more Dementors one more now :p

Thanks mate.
Well that's the thing I'm not sure if you can get the souls back out, I'm thinking we would get the anwser in the 7th book.
You know you said that the souls wouldn't be happy once they've been taken out.. leads me to another theory. You think that's how Dementors are made? The lost souls taken out from people. I dont think the Dementors hold on onto them, think they convert them into more Dementors?
Okay this is completely going agaisnt my placing them into the veil theory now, but I like the converting into more Dementors one more now :p

yh, actually i always wondered how Dementors were made, maybe they could be the soul the dementors themselves sucked out?? Well, theres no clue about this in the previous books, i guess this can be agood theory. But Dementors want to suck out happiness, its what they feed on right, so why souls want to do that to other people if it happened to them?

yh, actually i always wondered how Dementors were made, maybe they could be the soul the dementors themselves sucked out?? Well, theres no clue about this in the previous books, i guess this can be agood theory. But Dementors want to suck out happiness, its what they feed on right, so why souls want to do that to other people if it happened to them?

Well we've never been told that the Dementors suck out the happiness from a person. They make the person feel like they will never ever be happy again. If the Dementors sucked out the happiness, then theoretically they can never return to being happy again. Which we know is not what happens
We know that the Dementors suck out the soul of a person. After being around the Dementor long enough for it be able to close in on you, and perform the kiss, which btw according to when they were trying to take Siruis's soul, takes a while. Would the soul be happiness-less? by then?

Well we've never been told that the Dementors suck out the happiness from a person. They make the person feel like they will never ever be happy again. If the Dementors sucked out the happiness, then theoretically they can never return to being happy again. Which we know is not what happens
We know that the Dementors suck out the soul of a person. After being around the Dementor long enough for it be able to close in on you, and perform the kiss, which btw according to when they were trying to take Siruis's soul, takes a while. Would the soul be happiness-less? by then?

ohhh i get what you mean, i used the wrong word sorry...yes, the soul would be happiness-less by then. OK, so how do you think the souls sucked out would be converted into dementors?

Well, I have read the Deathly Hallows and Sirius turned into a ghost and said that is was accuatly quite peaceful and felt like he was very tired. He said that he would like to do it again. Before I knew that, I would have thought the same as being demented ^.^

^I think this place is still a spoiler-free area.... -_-

Btw only Harry and Luna-who've seen someone dead-can hear voices from the veil, the others can't.
What does this means?

Well, I have read the Deathly Hallows and Sirius turned into a ghost and said that is was accuatly quite peaceful and felt like he was very tired. He said that he would like to do it again. Before I knew that, I would have thought the same as being demented ^.^

No DH discussions here.

For me, I think that beyond the veil its a very dark place, but if you fall behind it, maybe you see others that have died also.

Btw only Harry and Luna-who've seen someone dead-can hear voices from the veil, the others can't.
What does this means?

I think Ginny can hear them aswell.

I think Ginny can hear them aswell.

Who did Ginny see die?

The veil just seems like some sort of portal to the afterlife, except it's only one way of course.

What get's me is why would something like that even exist? Why would there be a portal like that when..Well..if you wanted to get to the afterlife you'd just have to well..die.

The veil just seems like some sort of portal to the afterlife, except it's only one way of course.

What get's me is why would something like that even exist? Why would there be a portal like that when..Well..if you wanted to get to the afterlife you'd just have to well..die.

Perhaps for a quick, painless death?

To be honest, I don't think she really thought much about why it was there, or what it was for. I think it was purely symbolic, and a means for Sirius to die. There are a couple of quotes from the books (I know one from DH, but if this is still spoiler free, I'll refrain from mentioning it) where the world 'veil' is used to speak of death.

Also, All Saints' Day, the day after Halloween, is the day when the "veil between the world of the dead and the living is thinnest". So the word 'veil' is commonly used to represent the barrier between the living and the dead.

I think it was Jo's way of speaking of the afterlife in a more concrete, symbolic way. I believe she intended it to remain a mystery, along with the "love room".

ohhh i get what you mean, i used the wrong word sorry...yes, the soul would be happiness-less by then. OK, so how do you think the souls sucked out would be converted into dementors?

Well I dont really know how it happens, but I'm thinking after the Dementors suck out the soul of the person surley they don't keep it in within themselves would they? I think they either place those souls into the veils, or turn them into dementors... somehow... :relax: (place your own thoughts into how it would happen :p)

Maybe there's "Convert the sucked souls into dementors" land :p just kidding, sorry. Anyway, if it did happen i think the dementor will give some of itself to the soul so it would become how it has? Like when it sucks the soul, the soul goes inside it, so while its inside the dementor, it (the soul) would get something of the dementor and attach it to itself (the soul) and emerge out as a dementor. Sorry, if you got confused, i hope you get what i mean ;) :D

Maybe there's "Convert the sucked souls into dementors" land :p just kidding, sorry. Anyway, if it did happen i think the dementor will give some of itself to the soul so it would become how it has? Like when it sucks the soul, the soul goes inside it, so while its inside the dementor, it (the soul) would get something of the dementor and attach it to itself (the soul) and emerge out as a dementor. Sorry, if you got confused, i hope you get what i mean ;) :D

Actually you know what I had to read it twice to really understand it. Nowwww that I get it ... :p... yh who knows what happens to the soul inside, it just hangs out and 'chills' in there init :lol: