Spinner's End #11 - Hunting For Horcruxes

Discussion for Spinner's End #11 - Hunting For Horcruxes (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/spinnersend/se11.shtml) by Lady Lupin.

(Old discussion of this article can be found HERE (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=81813).)

very good editorial. The length of the rest of replies and other forums means I haven't read them all(so this could have been said before), but I wanted to propose Griffindor's item as a Horcrux could be the sorting hat. If i'm remembering correctly one of its songs said it once belonged to Griffindor. This means the sword is NOT the only known G relic that could be used. I don't know how voldemort could have gotten to it, but it is a possibility.

I really liked this editorial. I find it really interesting that there wasn't any mention of any surviving Ravenclaw artifacts. Dumbledore never states if there has been any record of this. Ravenclaw is the only founder where we don't know if anything has survived. I don't believe that we are going to finish Book Seven without loss, I don't think Harry has to die in order for the ending of the story to work. We have come too far with him, and we need the satisfaction of his victory and his reward. I agree with this. Also, almost all of fantasy follow the classical epic structure. (In fact there is only one fantasy series I can think of that deviates from this which is of course the Chronicles of Narnia but that series is an allegory so that makes sense.) 1. The hero must have a reason to leave home and go on a journey. 2. The journey must provide a series of obstacles that the hero has to overcome. 3. The hero must return home and provide one last service to society before they leave again and/or die.

By jove, I think you're right about Harry's blood. I just remembered that strange remark Dumbledore made to Harry in the cave: "But your blood is worth more than mine." (p.523, English Hardcover) I couldn't figure out what it meant - I think you did.

Excellent investigations Lady Lupin :tu:, keep it up!

A new thought occured to me after reading your escellent series of editorials.. we may have overlooked an important tool in Harry's Horcrux Hunt (hereafter abbreviated as HHH).

Harry's scar provides a connection to Voldemort and the faile Avada Kedavra has left Harry with some of Voldemort's powers. Does this connection to VOldemort extend to his Horcruxes? Would a technique akin to Legilmency, properly focused, allow Harry to detect and identify a Horcrux of Voldemort's, as it contains a shard of his soul? Will his scar, in a fashion akin to his "Spidey Sense" of Voldemort, aid him in HHH.

Also, as the creator of both the Horcruxes and their attendant protections, one can expect Voldemort to be able to access the Horcruxes when necessary WITHOUT the risk another wizard would face. In the Inferi cave, for instance, would Voldemort need to bring a stooge to drink the potion if he wanted the locket, or would he be able to simply retrieve it himself without either having to drink the potion or arousing the Inferi. Remember, Dumbledore suffered great injury destroying the ring , while Harry suffered no injury directly from destroying the diary with the basilisk's tooth. Was the diary otherwisse unprotected, or did Harry acquire an inadvertent immunity from Voldemort due to the failed Avada Kedavra? It may still require a magical prop of some sort to destroy a Horcrux (like the basilisk's tooth, but Harry may be uniquely able to wield such an item without risk of injury from the other attendant protections. Of course, if this were true, then Dumbledore may not need to have suffered from the potion immersing the ring, if they had known Harry would have been immune to it's effects.

I am VERY interested in the thoughts of the Hogwarts Amateur Slething Community (HASC) on these nettling questions! Any comments or thoughts, anyone?

I have a suspicion that someone is being hidden by the Order. Dumbledore drops this juicy clue on the Tower, shortly before his death, when he promises Draco that he can hide the Malfoys more completely than Draco can possibly imagine - an odd turn of phrase... as if he has done it before. It could be Emmeline or Fortescue, or my old favorite, Caradoc Dearborn, but I do believe someone is being hidden. My bet is Ollivander, and I believe it may have to do with Ravenclaw's Wand.
very good pont...thats what i have been thinking for a long time. i think emmeline was a fake death which helped Snape to look like he is on Voldy's side(since he takes credits for Emmeline's death) and also a protection of a very important member anda great witch...though Ollivander can be a good guess

It was mentioned that there was something to do with fire for the Gryffindor Horcrux. Could it be Pheniox Fire? Or related to Fawes?

Great Editorial by Lady Lupin. I hope everyone reads this post.

With regard to RAB being Regulus Black, there is no evidence anywhere to indicate that Regulus Black is an extremely powerful wizard -- powerful enough to get through Voldemort's protection. The only current wizard so far who can do this is Albus Dumbledore and I believe that Dumbledore in some way shape or form is part of RAB. Remember, that for even so powerful a wizard as Dumbledore, one alone could not have done it. I would certainly buy into the suggestion that Voldemort is meant to believe that RAB is Regulus Black, that the initials are meant to stand for Regulus Black, but I think the reality of who RAB truly is will be different. In other words, RAB is a fake. Harry is the only other who has destroyed a horcrux, and with help from Dumbledore and Fawkes.

I believe that the real locket horcrux has already been destroyed. Of course, for Harry, this is not relevant because even if I am correct Harry does not KNOW that to be the case and will have to find out whether it has or has not been destroyed.


I disagree here, I believe the Locket to be exactly the locket found in Grimmauld place, I believe I have discovered more evidence of this during my re-read of OotP post HBP but first I'll re-cap on what we already know.

OotP UK Edition Page 108. - a heavy locket that none of them could open

HBP UK Edition Page 569 - To the Dark Lord........R.A.B.

I believe it is Regulas Black is R.A.B., on OotP UK page 104 we are told his Uncle's name is Alphard, coincidence? We are also given information regarding Sirius Grandfather who received an Order of Merlin, First Class. Which to me suggests that there has been good wizards willing to do what is right in the House of Black in the past, although Sirius puts it down to money. As to whether Regulas was a great wizard, Dumbledore tells us that Slughorn handpicks favourites and had an uncanny knack of always choosing those who would go on to become outstanding in there various fields. Slughorn earlier says;

The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor! Shame - he was a talented boy. I got his brother but I'd of liked the set.
I am assuming Regulas was one of these hand-picked favourites, just a thought!


Now I skip to something I discovered last night and I have not noticed this in any post or editorial as yet, at the end of the chapter, The Secret Riddle, Dumbledore states;
- the young Tom Riddle liked to collect trophies. You saw the box of stolen articles he had hidden in his room. These were souvenirs of particularly unpleasent bits of magic. Bear in mind this magpie-like tendency, for this, particularly, will be important later.

Now skip back to OotP UK Page 445, when Hermione is giving Kreacher a present the go to his room under the boiler. When Harry looked inside he saw
Here and there among the material were stale bread crusts and mouldy old bits of cheese. In a far corner glinted small objects and coins that Harry guessed Kreacher had saved, magpie-like, from Sirius's purge of the house,

The word magpie-like immediately stuck out in my re-read. I think this is an intentional clue and I believe that the Locket is in Kreachers Den.

Has anyone any more thoughts on this?

Well, the locket that the trio found IS Slytherin's locket, it just has to be, otherwise a very complicated storyline would ensue and Jo's spent too much time building up this locket stuff.
As far as R.A.B. I concur with the masses that it is Regulus. The way I see it, he had a change of heart after hanging with Voldy for a while and decided that the dark way just wasn't for him. Perhaps he found out about the Horcrux situation and was too freaked out about it... only Jo knows. He knew that he wasn't going to get out of it alive and decided to try to do what he could to bring snake-face down in order to somewhat redeem himself. I don't see Dumbledore being connected to this in any way. Why would he have taken Harry on such a perilous journey if he had already removed the original Horcrux?
It could very well be that the locket is in Kreacher's den, I wouldn't put it past him. However, I'm more concerned that Mundungus stole it along with the other items that Harry caught him selling to Aberforth. Hopefully, if this is the case, Aberforth bought the locket (already knowing what it was) and will turn it over to Harry. Worst case scenario; Mundungus stole the locket and sold it to someone less trustworthy. We know he's quite the scamp and his morals aren't the highest as long as he can make a few galleons... Then again, he's fiercely loyal to Dumbledore. Why can't the book be coming out tonight?

All the best,
la femme

It was mentioned that there was something to do with fire for the Gryffindor Horcrux. Could it be Pheniox Fire? Or related to Fawes?

Ooooh, I'm having a light bulb moment!!!:clap:

Currently in "The Eighth Horcrux" there is contemplation about Lord Meany turning his wand into a Horcrux... His wand has Fawkes' tail feather as its core... interesting, no?

All the best,
la femme

Well, the locket that the trio found IS Slytherin's locket, it just has to be, otherwise a very complicated storyline would ensue and Jo's spent too much time building up this locket stuff.
As far as R.A.B. I concur with the masses that it is Regulus. The way I see it, he had a change of heart after hanging with Voldy for a while and decided that the dark way just wasn't for him. Perhaps he found out about the Horcrux situation and was too freaked out about it... only Jo knows. He knew that he wasn't going to get out of it alive and decided to try to do what he could to bring snake-face down in order to somewhat redeem himself. I don't see Dumbledore being connected to this in any way. Why would he have taken Harry on such a perilous journey if he had already removed the original Horcrux?
It could very well be that the locket is in Kreacher's den, I wouldn't put it past him. However, I'm more concerned that Mundungus stole it along with the other items that Harry caught him selling to Aberforth. Hopefully, if this is the case, Aberforth bought the locket (already knowing what it was) and will turn it over to Harry. Worst case scenario; Mundungus stole the locket and sold it to someone less trustworthy. We know he's quite the scamp and his morals aren't the highest as long as he can make a few galleons... Then again, he's fiercely loyal to Dumbledore. Why can't the book be coming out tonight?


Yes, I believe he had a change of heart aswell, I was thinking, would it have anything to do with the blurred out family names on the Black family tree, perhaps there were some Black Family relatives killed which was part of the reason Regulas changed his allegiance.

Valid point, I agree too that Dumbledore has nothing to do with R.A.B..

And lastly you may be right regarding Mundungus or Aberforth having the locket but I think it's too obvious, I think JKR has tried to deliberately throw us off track with this information. The whole Mundungus stealing incident was so heated. Whereas you really had to look for the Magpie-like clue.

A very thoughtful and well-written series of editorials, Lady Lupin!

Is it possible that Ravenclaw Horcrux is the tiara which Harry perched on the head of a stone bust in the Room of Requirement to mark the cabinet where he hid his Potions book? I think Mrs. Weasley's offer of a family tiara to Fleur for her wedding might be JKR's sneaky way of drawing our attention back to this item.

but I wanted to propose Griffindor's item as a Horcrux could be the sorting hat.

JKR said in the "Rumors" section of her website that the Sorting Hat was not a Horcrux.

I was going thru the Eighth Horcrux article(quite interesting ,though).I am not sure whether the following has been discussed earlier...

Well, in HBP we find Fudge telling the Muggle Minister that Voldemort had personally killed AMelia Bones... Amelia BOnes' neice Susan belongs to Ravenclaw.In magical families related people usually belong to the same house.
Perhaps AMelia Bones too belonged to Ravenclaw.Moreover, in OOTP Tonks tells Harry that Madam Bones is "fair" (this happened on the day of Harry's hearing)...well Ravenclaws are "fair". Can it be (also)possible that the Ravenclaw Horcrux was in Mrs. BOnes possession? (She was visibly disturbed at the hearing at DUmbledore's insistence about VOldemort's return...her brother also worked for the order.) Can it also be that R.A.B is someone from the BOnes' family?( of course the "To The Dark Lord" salutation goes against that.)
Maybe Voldemort killed MAdam Bones to get the Ravenclaw horcrux.( I have left Gryffindor's relic out of this ,believing Dumbledore.)

COuld fawkes be DUmbledore's Horcrux? Well, for a start such an "ingenious" idea (indestructible horcrux) can come to Dumbledore quite easily (keeping in mind his genius about the Mirror of Erised.) Fawkes is specially loyal to Dumbledore (like the way DumbleDore tells Nagini is to Voldemort), which we've seen in CoS,GoF,OOTP,HBP.

Again keeping in mind Dumbledore's loathing towards Dark Magic, maybe Dumbledore got against it after experiencing bad stuffs rather than being prejudiced against it. After all. its the way Magic is used that makes it good or bad.

We must also remember that to create a Horcrux , a kill has to be made. Dumbledore did "destroy" the dark wizard Grindelwald(or whatever his name was opposite the chocolate card.

Again , in OOTP at the fight sequence in the Ministry of Magic Dumbledore tells VOldemort..."We both know TOm that there are other ways of destroying a man.)

(last but not the least maybe I don't want Dumbledore dead.)

I think you'll find that Susan bones was in Hufflepuff not Ravenclaw so there goes that theory. Hufflepuff's are deemed more fair as Helga Hufflepuff said she'd teach any witch or wizard whether they were pureblood or not and they didn't have to be brainy, brave or ambitious etc. she wouldn't discriminate - how fair is that - no prejudice from Helga.

You're right !! (I had known earlier Susan Bones was from Hufflepuff , but got confused later.) Well, in that case how about the Hufflepuff cup, being grabbed by Voldemort from Amelia Bones(who probably belongs to Hufflepuff being "fair" enough for that house. )? "eighth horcrux" is nonetheless an important observation. This is bcoz Voldemort duzn't kill randomly.He only kills very important people , or people important to him.

In that case, how does Amelia Bones turn out to be so important to him?

Even to make a horcrux, Voldemort is said to have killed people important to him. So there goes the question again.

Maybe Voldie killed her because she may have become the next Minister of Magic and he didn't want that. She was well-liked and therefore would have had lots of support from the wizarding community. She was also said to be a very powerful witch and he wouldn't want too much other competition now that Dumbledore has gone.

Maybe Voldie killed her because she may have become the next Minister of Magic and he didn't want that. She was well-liked and therefore would have had lots of support from the wizarding community. She was also said to be a very powerful witch and he wouldn't want too much other competition now that Dumbledore has gone.

I should be remembered that Madam Bones was the one who sided with DD and Harry at Harry's trial - all the order members when talking at the kitchen table before harry went to the trial said she was faiar and that harry shouldn't worry. Basically she was willing to accept that it was at least possible that V was back as early as the beginning of OotP whereas the rest of the ministry was denying the possibliity. If she had become minister of magic, and I am unsure of exactly when Fudge was removed before or after her death, rather than scrimger, perhaps there would have been more done to find the horcruxes, but I am not sure what else the Ministry could have done especially if DD did not reveal the horcrux problem. I think the only difference would have been the placing in prison of stan shunpike ( excuse the spelling I don't have the book with me), and the fact that they wouldn't have tried to get harry to appear to agree with the ministry's policies or soothing the masses. Really what could the ministry do that they were not doing. They were "protecting" the school and they were apparently actively seeking out deatheaters and LV. Of course if scrimger is actually a deatheater in disguise then all bets are off and thatwould pose a whole set of other problems. But I think Jo is using scrimger to point a finger at governments/ officials and how they sometimes act in a way that is in their own interests rather than the interests of the people they govern.

This was a brilliant essay! I find the idea about Ravenclaws wand flying around in air somewhere quite intriguing and quite fun. One of the points made in the essay, and one I agree with, is that finding a Horcrux is different than destroying one--this is, of course, what makes the plot all the more interesting. The unknown Horcrux, however, adds an element to the story I like, for it allows us to play detective. R. Ravenclaw's wand? Maybe. My money is on something in the room of requirement. I say this for two reasons. First, in HBP we see Voldy actually coming to Hogwarts in search of a job from Dumbledore--why? Dumbledore suspects that Voldy's presence is not what it seems. "Let us speak openly. Why have you come here tonight, surrounded by henchmen, to request a job we both know you do not want?," said Dumbledore. I believe that Voldy used this visit to Hogwarts to slip into the room of requirement and hide the unknown Horcrux. Second, we see the room of requirement described in some detail when Harry enters it to hide the HBP's potions book--why? There is something in there that was mentioned in the description JK gave us that is particularly interesting--the bloodstained axe. Could this be the axe used on Nearly Headless Nick? Just an idea, but it may qualify as something of Gryffindores. Afterall, Nearly Headless Nick is the Gryffindore ghost. Anyway, thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.

This was a rather interesting article, but out of all of the possibilities you gave as to why Harry didn't get hurt by the Diary while Dumbledore was wounded by the ring, you left one possibly important viewpoint out. What if Voldemort wasn't the one who put the spell on the ring horcrux that caused Dumbledore's injury? In HBP, Dumbledore says something rather important about Voldemort's Horcruxes:

"And they could be anything?" said Harry. "They could be old tin cans or, I dunno, empty potion bottles..."

"You are thinking of Portkeys, Harry, Which must be ordinary objects, easy to overlook. But would Lord Voldemort use tin cans or old potion bottles to guard his own precious soul? You are forgetting what I have showed you. Lord Voldemort liked to collect trophies, and he preferred objects with a powerful magical history. His pride, his belief in his own superiority, his determination to carve for himself a startling place in magical history; these things suggest to me that voldemort would have chosen his Horcruxes with some care, favoring objects worthy of the honor." (pg. 504)

"I can only guess," said Dumbledore. "For the reasons I have already given, I believe that Lord Voldemort would prefer objects that, in themselves, have a certain grandeur. I have therefore trawled back through Voldemort's past to see if I can find evidence that such artifacts have disappeared around him." (pg. 505)

Since Voldemort would want Horcruxes with a powerful magical history, it would make sense to interpret that as items that are magical; objects that have been enchanted by the founders of Hogwarts would have been a great appeal to him. This being said, what if Slytherin was the person who enchanted that ring long ago? Slytherin was a twisted wizard and it would make sense that he would want to punish anyone who destroyed one of his most prized possessions. If so, then Slytherin would have put a terrible curse on his ring and also his locket. Hufflepuff doesn't strike me as a person who would place a curse on her own goblet, so even though the goblet is enchanted, I think that harry wouldn't have to deal with any curse from it. Also, the other founders wouldn't have put a curse like that on their possessions either. Plus, I may be reading into Voldemort's character too much, but I don't think he would put a curse on Nagini. He seems to be more fond of Nagini than any of his servants. She is like his best friend or child, and he keeps her by his side most of the time.

I don't think Voldemort would put curses on his Horcruxes because he is too arrogant. He sets up protection around his Horcruxes that he believes only he has the power to get through. Being overconfident in the external protection his Horcruxes have, I doubt that he would also give his Horcruxes internal protection. He didn't give his diary internal protection. He only protection his diary had was Lucius Malfoy, although Lucius proved not to be a very good protector.

Very interesting editorial. :) I think that you're onto something in that Harry is, in some way, "immune" to the defenses that the Horcruxes possess. That brings me to say that I think that the locket Horcrux has either: 1. Had its protection taken off, 2. That the locket isn't the Horcrux that we're all thinking it is (very highly on the unlikely scale), or 3. The protection and soul fragment have been taken off of the Horcrux.

We know that all of the Horcruxes that have been destroyed have had protection around them. The diary had the soul possessing Ginny, the ring was protected by a powerful curse, and the fake locket was protected by the terrible potion. In OotP, many people handle the locket, yet none of them suffer any damage. Is it because the locket was already stripped of its protection? What about the soul fragment? Sirius says that Regulus was killed on Voldemort's orders, and RAB says that they will soon be dead. I think that if the locket is the Slytherin locket and RAB is Regulus, that the locket's protection is what killed him, rather than one of Voldemort's other Death Eaters. RAB said that they will be dead long before Voldemort read his or her note, which suggests to me that RAB (or Regulus if that's who it is) wasn't killed by someone but something.


"Perhaps the power in the scar also explains Harry's ability to speak Parseltongue and some of the qualities in him that made the Sorting Hat consider him for Slytherin."

I have something I'd like to ask everyone. It is tied in with the question, "Is Harry (or his scar) a Horcrux?", but I'm not going to really go into it all that much. My question is if Harry was a Horcrux (meaning that he had part of Voldemort's soul in him), would the Sorting Hat have been able to detect it? If so, would it have tipped the scales further in favor of Harry being placed in Slytherin? My answer to both of those questions is "yes", but I'd like to see what everyone else has to say.

I like the theory of Harry having to work with his instincts. (the whole basalik, fang scenario). Throughout the series he has accomplished so much out of pure instinct, i would not be surprised if this was the case in destroying a horcrux. He discusses using instincts when he is giving his first DA lesson, and the importance of this is repeated many times throughout the series.

I have all these new thoughts floating around in my head now....

I agree with plainlypotter (maybe because we are of a similar age? Also at our age we are very cynical of current government in power?) However Scrim could be a sort of double agent - but I suspect he's just trying to glorify himself by getting Harry onside, which is something I don't think Amelia Bones would have done had she lived to become Minister of Magic.
Now back to horcruxes and the hunting of them....
There could be one in Hogwarts as Dumbledore did advise Harry that they should be looked for in places Voldemort had some connection with in the past and Voldemort like Harry had a coamfortable connection with Hogwarts. However this connectin might have only been within the Chamber of Secrets which in which Harry has already destroyed a Horcrux in the form of the diary.
We now must ask if Riddle or Voldemort had another secret location within Hogwarts which not many know about. What about the Slytherin Common Room and Dormitories and other Slytherin only areas? Perhaps he had a secret location like behind a loose brick or something that he has hidden one. This could be where the Slytherins could help unite Hogwarts by finding it and helping Harry destroy the dangerous object that Voldemort placed there thinking it would be safe because it was in the area that only students from Slytherin would have access to and they were either too stupid like Crabbe and Goyle or loyal Vodlemort followers like - I don't know who - might fit this category - therefore making the horcrux safe. Sorry about the overlong sentence - drinking too much wine and enjoying every drop to be bothered to make it shorter but not yet inebriated - so don't worry.

Wonderful article, as always. I wonder sometimes if the ideas from the column are sucked directly from Rowling's mind.

Anywho, there are several other possible locations for the earth horcrux (Hufflepuff cup), such as the well known chamber of secrets, which happens to be underground. That one has probably arleady been mentioned. This already had the basilisk as protection, and there might be even more dangerous threats that defend the area as well.

Another possibility (a stretch I admit), is the department of mysteries. The Ministry is described as having dark stone walls, and there are just too many things we don't know about it to not go back. Rowling said no comment when faced with the question if harry would return to the DoM, which, in my mind, means yes. Why couldn't she just say no if he didn't? But i've been wrong in my deductions before, so its possible she was being 'mean' and tricking us into thinking Harry might return.

And my last comment, is that in one of her interviews, i think Rowling mentioned that Voldemort trusted Bellatrix with something important. Was it possibly to hide one of the horcruxes? Could she lead Harry to the location of another horcrux?

Your ideas are wonderful! Keep it up!

Let's theorize for a moment on how Voldemort would set up his Horcruxes. Assume for a moment that the Horcrux is necessary for reinvigorating Voldemort, not just to keep his soul "earthbound". Regardless of what they are or where they are located, one fact remains. Simply making and hiding a Horcrux is not enough, if no one knows where it is. Someone must be trusted with it's location, if they are to retrieve it to help Voldemort regain human form. Without knowing what it was, Lucius guarded the Diary. Were seperate DEs, each unbeknownst to the others, have a custodial role for each of the Horcruxes? Did RAB have responsibility for the locket? This would explain how he was able to retrieve it. Who would have had responsibility for the Ring (now destroyed), the cup and the other Hurcruxes? Does Bellatrix Lestrange hold the secret to one, as a basis for her belief that Voldemort trusts her implicitly? Perhaps the path to the Horcruxes can be found in investigating her and the other DEs? Any thoughts as to how this line of inquiry might unfold?

I was wondering if there are as many horcruxes out there as implied, I've reread the half blood prince and came up with a thought that the night Voldemort went out to kill Harry that he obviously didn't expect to physically die, does anyone else think that one part of his soul died with his physical body? So maybe there we are one horcrux short.
What does everybody else think?

Yes I also think that he lost part of his soul trying to kill Harry as he presumably had made more than one horcrux by then and when his curse rebounded on him aand he should have died he had to use one of them to become what people are calling Vapormort and survive as only because he 'died' during the Godric's Hollow incident. How this happens I don't know. When he loses one bit of soul how does he get another to him from the horcrux in order for him to keep 'living'????? Any thoughts anybody?

I am new to this so if this sucks, sorry. Here goes...

Yes I also think that he lost part of his soul trying to kill Harry as he presumably had made more than one horcrux by then and when his curse rebounded on him aand he should have died he had to use one of them to become what people are calling Vapormort and survive as only because he 'died' during the Godric's Hollow incident. How this happens I don't know. When he loses one bit of soul how does he get another to him from the horcrux in order for him to keep 'living'????? Any thoughts anybody?

The problem with this ^ theory is in your perception of how a horcrux works. Each individual piece of the soul does not become its own free agent, they still work together to keep the person alive. Every piece of soul has to die (I guess it's dying...) before the person dies. Vapormort was the piece of soul that was within Voldemort's body. It did not die because the whole soul has to be "vanquished" or "defeated" before the soul dies or moves on or whatever it does. I hope that makes sense to someone other than me...

Also...

It also strikes me that the successful retrieval of the fake locket required the use of Fire - an opposite to water. Perhaps Harry will need to learn how to balance and play the elements off of each other as he goes through his Horcrux adventures.

Just a quick thought here. When going through the defences of what was once Slytherin's locket (slytherin cooresponding to water), fire was essential. Remember the inferi; "like many creatures that dwell in cold and darkness, they fear light and warmth, which we shall therefore call to our aid should the need arise. Fire, Harry" HBP American version, p. 566 They couldn't have escaped without fire to hold off the Inferi.

Then why have horcri in the first place? If all the split pieces are in your body ready to replace each other as they are destroyed then why does the book give us the impression that when a horcux is destroyed the piece of within it is also destroyed - like the diary? If there had been no piece of soul in the diary why was Voldie so furious with Lucius when it was destroyed? No, that doesn't seem to me to be a satsfactory explanation. Perhaps Voldie has some sort of spell in place that notifies the pieces of soul in the horcri when the piece of soul in his body has been 'used up' and it is their turn for a stint in his body. They could all be arranged in a certain order for their uses. HA! If this was the case then what would happen if a destroyed piece of soul wasn't there to take it's turn when required? Uh oh I've just strayed into the realms of fantasy there so I'll stop before I get in too deep.

I don't think he's "using up" soul pieces, or exchanging them out, or anything like that. The soul is kept earthbound, because the entire soul- all of it- must be removed from its various vessels inorder to vanquish the person who made them. Once a soul piece is put into a horcrux, it does not reenter the person; this is not its function. It is an ancor that keeps the soul piece (within the person) from departing for the next world. Even if there body is destroyed by, say, AK- hence Vapormort.

Wow this is an amazing editorial it opened up many doors of thought for me. The way Lady Lupin thinks out her editorials and put clues that the "less passionate" people would normally overlook. When I read editorials like this it really makes me think like if Lady Lupin can come up with all these ideas about how Harry will defeat Voldemort then what can JKR come up with? So Lady Lupin great editorial and please keep them coming.

Here is my Speculation:

Harry truly is a Horcrux. But Harry does not have to die to destroy the Horcrux. Harry's scar must be destroyed. The last word in chapter 7 is scar because the last sentence says something like "Harry, look! Its gone!" Ron have you gone bonkers, whats gone? "Your scar"!

The "mind meld" that Harry performs with Voldemart is always thru his scar.
It is also thru this scar that he was able to see "as if he were the snake Nagini (who has been speculated to also hold a fragment of Voldemart's soul).

I propose that the scar holds the sixth fragment of Lord Voldemart's soul. This was done quite accidentally when Lord Voldemart killed Lilly.

The scar is in the form of a lightning bolt. Isn't fire the symbol for Gryffindor?
(Lighting could be considered a form of fire).

Isn't Harry from the house of Gryffindor?

Hasn't Harry stated repeatedly throughout the series that he wished the scar would disappear?

To defeat Voldemart, the cup, locket, Nagini must first be destroyed. If Harry can not ascertain that his scar is the sixth fragment, then perhaps it is destroyed while in some sort of battle with the death eaters. Perhaps Voldemart himself inadvertently destroys it?

I agree with Chimaera Quote

Each individual piece of the soul does not become its own free agent, they still work together to keep the person alive. Every piece of soul has to die (I guess it's dying...) before the person dies. Vapormort was the piece of soul that was within Voldemort's body. It did not die because the whole soul has to be "vanquished" or "defeated" before the soul dies or moves on or whatever it does.

This is how slughorn says it in the book
"Well, you split your soul, you see," said Slughorn, "and hide part of it in an object outside the body. Then, even if one's body is attacked or detroyed, one cannot die, for part of the soul remains earthbound and undamaged."AV.p497

And DD to Harry
"Well, it worked as a horcrux is supposed to work-in other words, the fragment of soul concealed inside it was kept safe and had undoubtedly played its part in preventing the death of its owner."AVp501

As for the scar being a horcrux, I will side with DD. Nagini is the the other horcrux. As Lupin said "It comes down to whether or not you trust Dumbledore's judgment. I do."
And so do I.

Hi everybody!

Going back to the issue of possible locations of the Hocruxes, I have an idea to submit. I know it's highly far-fetched and it has pretty no evidence in cannon, but it's not completely impossible and I thought i'd write it for the fun.

What do we know about Voldemort's horcruxes (among other things) ?
That he is intereted by objects with historical value, whose owner have been very famous and very powerful witches and wizards, and which have some powers of their own.
That he hides his horcuxes in places that have some personnal significance to him too. That's why we can be pretty certain there is a horcrux in Hogwarts (I intend to think that the original hidding place of the diary was the orphanage : it would follow a logical pattern :the proof of LV's origins was hidden beind the walls of his muggle orphanage as the heir of Slytherin was hidden behind the image of the poor half-blood orphan raised in a muggle orphanage; as a matter of fact, the hidding places of the first horcruxes seem highly symbolical : 1. the diary : the heir of Slytherin hidden behind Tom Riddle ; 2. the ring : revenge from his (male) ancestors who had rejected him and his mother : kill his father (and grandparents), make his uncle a scrapegoat, uses his grandfather's Marvolo beloved ring ; 3. the locket : his mother and the fear of death : Merope's locket, the Cave which is like a womb in the earth, with all this water (Slytherin), and the Inferi).
The problem is it doesn't leave much places to look in : Hogwarts, the Riddle House, Goddric's Hollow, Little Hangleton's Graveyard, maybe Borgin & Burke's. And it seems very doubtful that more than two of them are truly interesting.
So we are to look for something different, and one more thing we know about Voldemort is his obsession about immortality.

And what may have been Volemort's firstever contact with magic and the idea of a possible immortality? Which wizard and witch were so powerful and so famous that their history was known over the centuries even by muggles and whose story could easily have been read by young british orphans ? Which wizard and witch have been refered as soon as PS/SS like historical characters in chocolate frogs cards or expressions and haven't yet prove any use in the story (except for some symbolical references like the sword only a true Gryffindor could retrieve) ? The most famous of the famous. Merlin and Morgana. And the whole King Arthur's story, in some versions of which Morgana saves Arthur from death and allow his to live forever in Avalon.
Maybe it could have been very important to Voldemort and maybe we are to find out that he hid one of his horcruxes in an important place of the arturian myth. Or maybe we are to find out that we already know such a place without knowing it : I have always wondered about Goddric's Hollow's location; it doesn't seem that it could be near Glastonbury since in PS Hagrid's trip from GH to Privet Drive is described over the see, than over Bristol, but it could be near an other place. Maybe.

It's complete speculation of course, but I'd be interesting in knowing what you all think about it.

As for the scar being a horcrux, I will side with DD. Nagini is the the other horcrux. As Lupin said "It comes down to whether or not you trust Dumbledore's judgment. I do."
And so do I.
but there's the other one. the one that could be a possesion of one of the unnacounted for founders. If he couldn't get something of theirs, he might have used harry. Especially since, after the prophecy, he knew Harry could defeat him, wouldn't it be ironic if the person who could kill him was keeping a bit of soul safe so he couldn't die?
thats the sort of irony voldie would quite like, methinks.
tell me if i'm being thick.

i just started reading these editorials and getting back on the forums. work you know. but i seem to be missing alot like who is mark evans? please owl me an explanation.

Many thoughts...Fire is the Gryffindors's weapon...It overcame the Slytherin water defenses of the Locket...If the OotP were hiding Ollivander, DD would know about a Ravenclaw wand... Perhaps it takes Parseltounge to open the Locket...
In book 5, before sending Harry & the Weasleys to 12 Grimmauld Place via portkey, DD asked Sirius if "the coast is clear" . Many, including me, believed it meant he was concerned about a spy. Perhaps somebody was being hidden there, and the nonmembers were not to know...

Has anyone not noticed that everytime sparks have protuded out of the end of Harry's wand, they always just-so-happened to be red and gold, or gold alone and red alone? Let's look back through the books, for a moment... When Harry first purchased his wand in Ollivander's shop, he realised he had found the right match when red and gold sparks "streamed" out the end of his wand. When he was getting frustrated with Uncle Vernon in the beginning of the 5th book, the sparks that came flying out of his wand were yet again red and gold. I don't have all my copies of the books at the moment so I might be missing some things. But- there seems to be a common element just here and those are the colours red and gold, Gryffindor's colours. Can this mean that Harry's wand is indeed a horcrux of Gryffindor's? Maybe so.
I know that I might be going nowhere with this but it's a thought.

I loved this editorial!
I don't believe Harry is a Horcrux, and despite a lot of the debate leaning towards Nagini being one, i just have trouble believing that a Horcrux can in fact be a living thing. From what we've learnt about Voldemort's "Horcrux Hunt", he took his time collecting very particular items - "prizes" if you will. So i think each of the Horcrux's will be an object of some kind; Huffelpuff's Cup will almost definately be one, and i REALLY like the idea that another is Ravenclaw's wand, and that The Order have Ollivander hidden, that's great! I assume in order for Harry to discover that (if it's true) then he'll find some significant article about Ravenclaw's wand, perhaps an event that lead to it becoming legend or something. But anyway, i'm rambling!
I think Harry scar is significant in that it leaves a connection between him and Voldemort open. This, i think, will be used by Harry to somehow glean information from Voldemort('s memories?) as to the location of various Horcrux's, or at least Death Eaters who have information. But i still don't think Harry is a Horcrux! lol
Sorry if this was a bit long and didn't make much sense, i'm pretty tired!
Oh, one last theory to throw out there... this may seem a little crazy, but has anybody entertained the idea of Snape posessing a Horcrux?!
you never know!

I have a hard time believing that Harry is indeed a horcrux. This is because if Voldemort's whole life is dedicated to being immortal, then why would he want to put a bit of his soul into someone that he's trying to kill? In my opinion, this is a bit contradictory. If Harry was a horcrux, the last person Voldemort would be trying to do is kill Harry.

But as has been pointed out by a few other posters Harry might have been made a horcrux accidentally and Voldemort might not know he is one. However, I don't think he is one either.

I have a hard time believing that Harry is indeed a horcrux. This is because if Voldemort's whole life is dedicated to being immortal, then why would he want to put a bit of his soul into someone that he's trying to kill? In my opinion, this is a bit contradictory. If Harry was a horcrux, the last person Voldemort would be trying to do is kill Harry.

Absolutelye :agree: While Voldemort may do some strange things he is not stupid. Definitely not. Putting a horcrux into something or someone you're actively trying to kill just does not make sense.

The location of Slytherin's locket is (as far as I know) Grimmauld Place.

In OoTP, when the weaslys and harry+ hermiony, clean away junk, they clear a glass cabinet.; consisting of a vial of blood, order of merlin,etc. 1 item is'a heavy locket that none of them could open...'

This locket I think is the horcrux, which Regulus Black (supposing he is RAB; JK said herself that she wouldnt tell if RAB was black, however she said 'he is a worth candidate') in HBP in the fake horcrux, it says that RAB was gonna destroy it. Obviously, if this is the horcrux, Black was killed b4 destroyin it.

If so, that means that 1 horcrux is under Harry's nose, in the house he inherited. If in book 7, he goes to grimmauld place( hes not goin bak 2 Hogwarts) he might find it.

Supposing this theory is true, in book 7 he will find it.

:p Loved the ideas, i'm supposed to be a big fan but I must say, you gave me a lot of things I never even thought about. Thanks!

I agree with you Jizzya, I didn't think of the locket in Grimmauld Place until I read the intro, but now that I've heard of it I really firmly believe that it's true

I agree with you Jizzya, I didn't think of the locket in Grimmauld Place until I read the intro, but now that I've heard of it I really firmly believe that it's true

I agree with you Jizzya, I didn't think of the locket in Grimmauld Place until I read the intro, but now that I've heard of it I really firmly believe that it's true

I think that lady lupin is right with the elements. Because hufflepuff's element is earth, i have a theory of where the cup might be. A place of signifigance to Voldemort is definately his father's grave. Where did he regain his body? In the graveyard where his father was buried. That ment that before having a body again, the graveyard was of some kind of signifigance to him. Maybe, because one part of his soul was buried there, his path to becoming mor mortal would have been more meaningful if it was held there. And one other thing- what if the murder of his father was the one he used to create the Hufflepuff horcrux? Harry may have to go into the grave, which might lead to a kind of cahmber where the horcrux is hidden.:huff:

I actually do think that Harry will die in the end and we have been given a major clue in this. It is essential that Harry, as the hero of the story (and it IS a traditional "hero's journey" story) must achieve his ultimate, inner objective.

Surprisingly this is not to defeat Voldamort (though that is an important part of the journey) ... we were shown very early on what this was when we saw Harry spending time in front of the Mirror of Erised -- a very powerful literary device Jo has used to give us this important information ... Harry's innermost desire is to be reinstated with his parents.

Jo has stated that they will not be brought back to life, so the only way Harry can achieve that is to follow Sirius through the curtain of death.

It makes logical sense that Hufflepuff's Cup is hidden within Gringott's. As stated in the editorial, Quirrell/Voldemort was able to penetrate Gringott's without being caught. This makes is likely that Voldemort is well familiar with the labyrinth of passages and security to navigate his way in and out at his pleasure. If this is true, then either he has hidden it on his own accord or he has a legitimate vault in which the horcrux sits.

----

In regards to the situation with the missing Ollivander, after having read the article, it does definitely seem possible that Albus hid him, but if Albus new that the wand was a horcrux, wouldn't it seem more likely that it would have been destroyed? It seems this would be pertinent information to share with Harry. Seeing as Ollivander left with no obvious signs of a struggle, maybe there are other reasons for which he was hidden or perhaps he was taken by Death Eaters for reasons unknown and saw no real reason to fight back. That or he is in cahoots with the baddies.

Argh!! This is driving me nuts! I seriously need to read Deathly Hallows. Come on July! Tick....Tick....Tick....Tick....Tick....Tick....

i dont know where else to disscuss this theory so im posting it in the horcrux section. in the goblet of fire when voldemort is finally returned to his mortal body he questions the death eater's loyalty and asked why they thought he was for ever vanquished, he who took more steps then any wizard on the path to immortality. now this is only a thought but when he said steps in the plural was he refering to his multiple horcrux's, or are his horcrux's in total only one of the steps he took on the path to eternal life. if you remeber he said and i cant quote his exact wording because i dont have the book here"one or more of my steps must have worked be cause i remained alive". why would he refer to seprate horcrux's as seprate methods of immortality when they all preform the same function. we know for a fact that his horcruxs were not enuf to satisfy him other wise he would have not persued the philosophers stone, but then again that might have just been temporary like the unicorn blood. it just seems hard to beleive givin voldemorts terrible fear of death that he would stop at horcrux's alone. it is my beleif that he would have obtained knowlageon each and every immortallity method he could find in an attempt to further his chances or perhaps as a back up in case his horcrux's were destroyed.

thanks for reading please post your opinions

I agree that the locket will be found at Grimald#12. I think that the cup will be found in the graveyard where Voldemont regained his body near the tombstone. The wand from Olivanders will turn out to be Gryfindor's and be found where James and Lily died....as that relates to fire.

Ok that like totally rocked, I hope that happens in the books. But with more romance and adventure. :tu: ttyl
Rachel Ann

Jkr rocks and someday i must meet her!

Very interesting editorial. I do beliueve that the locket will be the simpliest thing for Harry to conquer. It said no one could open it ... but who is to say Harry tried it himself. It is a Slythern heirloom. Maybe Harry's Parseltongue will come in play??? The locket's details were not disclosed to the readers, so maybe on the side of the locket, there is a snake. Because if you remember, Voldemorts mothers family had that locket, and they could all speak parseltongue except her (as far as we know since her magic had escaped her for so long). Now in the Tarot editorial, which I just read, I mentioned the wand without reliezing someone else had. lol. But now I am thinking that if someone else had thought of it as well, then maybe I am not wrong after all.

i personnally believe that the wand is of Ravenclaw, not Gryffindor, and whereever Ollivander is, the wand is. And I think that Harry will have a hard time tracking him down and getting the wand from him. Ollivander displays alot of Ravenclaw qualities, such as wisdom, and great intelligence. I also think that the cup in buried in with his father Tom Riddle. Very hard to find, and something Voldemort would do.

Also, in response to horcrux88, i do believe he took more measures then the horcruxes. Remember, JK said that in the 7th book, we learn why some people stay behind as ghosts? Mayve Voldemort does die, but becomes a ghost? Far out there, but maybe. Luckily ghosts can't perform magic, but Voldemor6t wants to be feared, and is scared of death.

i think hufflepufs goblet is hidden in riddles house In goblet of fire she jo says there is some current onwer of riddles house Must be voldemort as the house belongs to him now I think its hidden inside the hill on which the house stands

Okay, so here's my question. They Jo says that Voldemort split his soul into seven pieces, six horcruxes, and one piece inside of his body. But wouldn't the one that resides in his body already have died when the spell backfired so many years ago? I don't understand how he could still have that piece of his soul left, because if the spell reversed, it would've killed him, right? So that should have taken one away right away, plus he would've had to use a horcrux to revive himself, right?? I may be wrong (and someone please let me know if I am), but with the horcuxes that are already destroyed, plus those ones, he should be down to 3 parts...

And another thing, I don't agree with the Harry being a horcrux, he would know if voldemort put that spell on him. He could have done it the night he killed James and Lily, but then why would he do that if he thought that harry was gonna be the one who would eventually kill him? I think he was saving his last Horcrux for harry's murder, it was the most significant! But try this, what do u think about Hogwarts itself being a horcrux? What if the day that he came to ask for the D.A.D.A position, since Dumbledore did not give him the opportunity to search the castle, he used the whole castle? That would certainly seal the bond of the 4 founders, right? That would mean in the end, Harry would have to destroy Hogwarts? Or the sorting hat... Now I don't see how he could've enchanted the hat, being as its in Dumbledore's office, but it did belong to Griffindor... But then again, if he could get to the hat, he could get to the sword...

In closing, I really am just curious if anyone else thought the same thing about Voldemorts 7 part soul, I really feel that we are in for a surprise none of us die hards are expecting... At least I sure hope so!!

P.S. Does anyone else think that Jo should publish a "Hogwarts, A History" after the series is over?? I think it would be a good read!


Very interesting editorial. I do beliueve that the locket will be the simpliest thing for Harry to conquer. It said no one could open it ... but who is to say Harry tried it himself. It is a Slythern heirloom. Maybe Harry's Parseltongue will come in play??? The locket's details were not disclosed to the readers, so maybe on the side of the locket, there is a snake. Because if you remember, Voldemorts mothers family had that locket, and they could all speak parseltongue except her (as far as we know since her magic had escaped her for so long). Now in the Tarot editorial, which I just read, I mentioned the wand without reliezing someone else had. lol. But now I am thinking that if someone else had thought of it as well, then maybe I am not wrong after all.

i personnally believe that the wand is of Ravenclaw, not Gryffindor, and whereever Ollivander is, the wand is. And I think that Harry will have a hard time tracking him down and getting the wand from him. Ollivander displays alot of Ravenclaw qualities, such as wisdom, and great intelligence. I also think that the cup in buried in with his father Tom Riddle. Very hard to find, and something Voldemort would do.

Also, in response to horcrux88, i do believe he took more measures then the horcruxes. Remember, JK said that in the 7th book, we learn why some people stay behind as ghosts? Mayve Voldemort does die, but becomes a ghost? Far out there, but maybe. Luckily ghosts can't perform magic, but Voldemor6t wants to be feared, and is scared of death.

If you remember, Merope could speak Parsletounge. Whenever Marvolo was yelling at her, he did it in parsletounge!!