Breastfeeding

If a breastfed child of over a year is still waking up for night feedings (plural) the problem is not with the breastfeeding, but with that child's sleeping habits.Just a voice of experience here in case anyone is having this problem. I had both my babies in a cot next to our double bed for the first year, partly to facilitate nighttime feeding. When my son was about 6 months old and still not sleeping through the night, I moved into the spare room and let my husband offer a bottle of water when he woke up. Two nights was all it took before my son decided water was not worth waking up for. We continued breastfeeding until he was nearly two, but no longer at night time. I've heard that this works for most people.

Unlike most women I know I really hated breastfeeding, and that was something that was always very difficult to admit - like there must be something wrong with me. But I really wanted my kids to get all the benefits from breastmilk so I set the goal of 9 months and made it to a year. Nobody tells you how hard it is which is confusing because it's supposed to be so natural.

Don't feel bad at all - that's why they have lactation counselors. It really isn't just instinctually accomplished. Too many people think that child care is like that, i.e., that we are made to be parents therefore it will all come instinctually. No darned way! We have to learn about babies. Love helps motivate us, but we do not know what to do with them until we make a point of learning.

My breastfed daughter slept throught the night at 7 weeks!

Unlike most women I know I really hated breastfeeding, and that was something that was always very difficult to admit - like there must be something wrong with me. But I really wanted my kids to get all the benefits from breastmilk so I set the goal of 9 months and made it to a year. Nobody tells you how hard it is which is confusing because it's supposed to be so natural. Anyway, each baby is different, so the next one might be better.You have reason to be really proud of yourself for that! :tu: Every baby is different, so yes, the next one might be easier. You will certainly have more experience, and that helps an awful lot.

When my son was about 6 months old and still not sleeping through the night, I moved into the spare room and let my husband offer a bottle of water when he woke up. Two nights was all it took before my son decided water was not worth waking up for. We continued breastfeeding until he was nearly two, but no longer at night time. I've heard that this works for most people.That's a really good suggestion. I've also read that breastmilk is digested pretty quickly, so sometimes that's why breastfed babies take longer to sleep through the night. Their little bodies digest the breastmilk and they want something more! Although, if they're refusing water, which is obviously another necessity, then they must not be feeling too hungry/thirsty ;).

My breastfed daughter slept throught the night at 7 weeks!

And my formula-fed nephew has never once had a night feed. My friend's breastfed baby had night feeds all the time. Is there any evidence to show a link between breatsfeeding and babies sleeping all night?

And my formula-fed nephew has never once had a night feed. My friend's breastfed baby had night feeds all the time. Is there any evidence to show a link between breatsfeeding and babies sleeping all night?
In the advice books I read, it stated that breastfed babies take longer to sleep through the night than formula fed ones, but it is not a dramatic difference. Either way most kids are not sleeping through the night until at least three months, and past about 6 months, regardless of how you are feeding, the expert opinion is that the baby does not NEED to feed at night (so some approach of adjusting their expectations is called for, like anabel's advice with the water.)

Totally anecdotal, but I think one reason my breastfed kids were good sleepers relatively early is size. Both were well over 8 lbs (about 4 kilos) at birth, and gained weight rapidly. The more you can cram into them in that final pre-night feeding, the longer they'll sleep...

This looks like a good thread to bring back from the dead. :)


1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
Absolutely.
2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
If she choses to, more power to her.
3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
I am currently researching this and am still developing an opinion on it. I do understand the benefits of extended breastfeeding, however I do not yet know of an animal that continues to breastfeed past the age of cutting teeth and certainly past the age of birthing another child. As of now, I think it is up to the mother's individual instincts as there is certainly no harm in extended breastfeeding aside from social criticism.
4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
There are definite health benefits to breastfeeding in general but as the child ages, the benefits are a bit harder to prove as they are getting more and more nutrients from food they are eating. However, breastfeeding for the first 6 months is being proven a must for the best possible health since it reduces the rate of illness.
5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Of course.
5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
Because society has taught us that breasts are sexual objects placed unnaturally on a woman's chest for the pleasure of others when they are in fact nature's perfect tool for feeding our young.
6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
There are many laws in place in the states protecting a woman's right to breastfeed anywhere she pleases without disturbance unless she is somewhere she isn't supposed to be in general (like a high security area or trespassing.) The laws go so far as to state she can bare as much of her breast as she pleases during the feeding. It only makes sense. It is one of humanity's most basic and natural rights. You can't let a child go hungry because you personally have not come to grips with the basic function of breasts. Etiquette is a different question, there are ways of nursing discreetly, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I nursed both of my children for about 2 years each. They were both started on solid foods at about 6 months and after they got used to solids, they only nursed a few times a day. From the research I did, I learned that the powers that be generally say you should try to nurse exclusively for he first 6 months, but that nursing for up to one year is highly beneficial because of the antibodies the baby gets from the milk. There is less evidence of what, if any, benefits the baby receives after one year primarily because so few women nurse more than a year. My totally unscientific opinion is that breastfeeding after one year probably benefits the baby because he / she does still receive antibodies from the milk and it is a great source of comfort for both the mother and the baby.

I was told that continuing breastfeeding while introducing a mixed diet also protects from or delays the onslaught of food allergies. Breastmilk has so many marvellous qualities and they are discovering more all the time. My personal opinion is that breastfeeding for 6 months is important, and two years is perfect, (incidentally the same as the World Heath Organisation recommends). But all kids are different, and very few of them have read the child-rearing books ;), so what works for you and your child is usually the best approach.

I was told that continuing breastfeeding while introducing a mixed diet also protects from or delays the onslaught of food allergies. Breastmilk has so many marvellous qualities and they are discovering more all the time. My personal opinion is that breastfeeding for 6 months is important, and two years is perfect, (incidentally the same as the World Heath Organisation recommends). But all kids are different, and very few of them have read the child-rearing books ;), so what works for you and your child is usually the best approach.

I think this statement sums it up quite nicely. :)

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

I certainly would, as much as possible.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time? It's her choice. And it depends what you mean by an 'extended period'.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

Getting the child to start eating some solid food and not totally rely on breast milk should be done as soon as the baby's body can cope with it, but actually stopping all breastfeeding I think shouldn't happen until the baby is at least one year old, and should really continue for a little longer.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

It depends on the situation. Some do.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Yes, absolutely. Although they should make an effort to move out of the way and cover themselves up reasonably well. It would be nice to see mothers breastfeeding children more often, because it's good for the child and I'd much rather see a child being breastfed than have to listen to a bawling baby when I'm trying to go about my buisiness.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

People connect breasts with sex and it's usually seen as indecent to expose the whole breast. Therefore I think if mothers can cover themselves up they should do so, as it's unnesscessary to expose themselves too much and it must be embarrasing for the mother?

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

I think it's horrible to tell the mother to feed the child in the toilets- everyone else in the resteraunt is sat eating, why shouldn't a baby be able to as well?

Breastfeeding is a totally personal choice. That being said, I breastfed all my children. It was easy, nothing to buy, wash, or prepare. As long as you and the baby are together, there is no problem. I breastfed as long as my children wanted to, which was 18 months for the first one, 14 for the second, and about 20 for the third. They just lost interest on their own. There are a few downsides, it is harder to leave a breastfed baby if they refuse to take a bottle, but the benefits are many. A breastfeeding mother has to generate a lot of calories to make milk. I actually would get tired of having to eat so much (I'm thin, by the way). It is a great way to lose that weight gained during pregnancy. But the biggest benefit is for the child. They tend to be healthier, less colds, ear infections and allergies, than other children. They also tend to be smarter, too, which recent studies show.

But some situations don't work out and a mother should not feel guilty if she can't or doesn't want to breastfeed. But I really enjoyed it.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

I am definitely in the minority group here, but no I don't plan on breastfeeding.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

If she feels comfortable doing so.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

When the mother and child are ready

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

Some need it, but I don't think most do.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

I don't see a problem with babies, as long as they are covering themselves and such. if its an older child then I don't think it should be done in public.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

Its a modestly thing I'm sure. Very conservative and modest people aren't going to want to see that.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

I think they should eat their lunch in the bathroom and see how they feel about it.

I was told that continuing breastfeeding while introducing a mixed diet also protects from or delays the onslaught of food allergies. Breastmilk has so many marvellous qualities and they are discovering more all the time. My personal opinion is that breastfeeding for 6 months is important, and two years is perfect, (incidentally the same as the World Heath Organisation recommends). But all kids are different, and very few of them have read the child-rearing books ;), so what works for you and your child is usually the best approach.

I think that this says volumes, and I agree entirely.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I'd like to, as it's important to get antibodies at that age, and breastfeeding is one way to do that.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
I think that it's ok, as long as the child feels that it can say no if it no longer wishes to. I would be embarrased if it was me, to be still being breastfed at 8, but everyone is different, and that's just my view.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
I think that at about 2, or at least before 2 1/2, or when you start to feed the child solid foods.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
I think that it's more a comfort thing, as by that time, they will be able to get all the nutrients they need from regular food.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Yes, if the baby is hungry then I see no reason why it can't be fed, if one is comfortable with breastfeeding in piblic, one should go for it.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
I think that it's seen by some people as a very private thing, but I think that it's just natural, like me eating a packet of crisps now in public.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I think that that is ridiculuos, particularly if the toilets have no chairs in, just cubicles. If there are proper facilites in the toilets, then that's slightly better, but still not good.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

I would, yes.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

This is a decision every mother has to make for herself based on her own individual circumstances. You can't make a general statement.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

Personally, I would say around one year old, but like before, this is a very PERSONAL decision - not one I would ever make for anyone else.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

Probably more of a comfort thing, as long as they're getting their nutrients from something else.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Yes. I mean, personally I wouldn't, but they should be allowed to decide that for themselves.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

Maybe they're embarrassed? It depends how covered up the mother is, you know? Some people are uncomfortable with nudity, even partial.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

Ewwwwy.

And my formula-fed nephew has never once had a night feed. My friend's breastfed baby had night feeds all the time. Is there any evidence to show a link between breatsfeeding and babies sleeping all night?


Not that I know of, icklek.

This summer I saw some lady breastfeeding her child in public - you know, no big deal - except he was like six years old! It was so weird! I was thinking: "Oh, that's an interesting way to hold a child...hmm, I wonder why her shirt is bunched up like that...*gasp* That's skin! She's breastfeeding!"
I don't really get upset if I see it, but I don't get joy out of seeing someone's breast, so if they could keep it covered in public places that would be nice.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child? I breastfed both of my children, and it was one of my favourite parts of mommyhood. I almost want more babies, just to do it again.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time? I don't know if I understand the word fair here, but I think you mean does it create an unnatural fixation on the child's part? Well, personally I think it's a bit odd [I]in my culture[I] to breast feed a child past 2 years. I don't say that it's bad, just that it's not common here and therefore looks a bit clingy to me.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast? It varies from baby to baby, and of course depends on extenuating circumstances such as the baby's health, mom's health, baby's ability to digest cow's milk, etc. For a typical baby and mom, with no lactose intolerance or other health problems, I'd say between a year and 18 months. After that, the baby gets very set in their ways and would be more difficult to wean, generally. Not to mention that some babies are talking quite well at that point (like my first one) and I would feel awqward nursing someone with whom I could carry on a conversation!

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing? More of a comfort thing. Again, I'm speaking of children with no special dietary needs. I don't pretend to know anything about special cases.

Do you think women should be allowed to breastfeed in public?Absolutely. It should be done discreetly, however, if the woman is in an a setting or culture where discretion is the norm. I think that, in certain societies, like mine, when a woman is too flamboyant about breastfeeding in public, it tends to be counterproductive and make more people opposed to it. Many times I nursed a baby with a little blanket over him and nobody was the wiser. (Or if they were, they didn't say anything because there was nothing to complain about.)

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
Like I stated, sometimes it's because of women who are embarrassingly (to some) open about the fact that they are breastfeeding. Other than that, I guess it seems remotely sexual and that makes people uncomfortable.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets? Unfortunately, I've nursed a baby many times in public toilets, and it disgusted me. I was never actually told to nurse a baby in the restroom, it was always of my own volition due to my innate modesty. But by the time I had the second baby, I rarely nursed him in the toilet and instead chose to carefully cover us with a small blankie and feed him in a more um, pleasant place. If I were to ever see a restaurant manager or other public manager MAKE a woman feed the baby in the bathroom, I would be angry. I can only remember once or twice being somewhere that had a designated nursing mothers' room, but I definitely think they should be provided more often. Especially in very busy locales where it's hard to find privacy. Not to mention that some babies will not nurse in loud, disruptive settings, and that younger babies need a little help getting started and it's hard to do that modestly.

Maybe a bit of notice is called for - more than once I've seen a woman holding an adorable little infant and I've stopped to admire the baby, only to realize after I've been staring for several seconds that she's breast-feeding. I've gotten some rather stern looks like that. :blush:

LOL! This happened to me so many times when I was nursing. I would put a blanket over just the top of my breast (since you can't really see anything where the baby is eating) and so many people would come up and say, "Oh look at the baby, he is so sweet" The difference is they would actually get right up in his face before they realized I was nursing. I was always to slow to realize they were moving in to get a closer look, so I never warned them. It was always funny to see people reactions though. I am not a shy person so I couldn't care less but everyone else was always so embarrassed.

My husband is very relaxed when it comes to people getting a glimpse of me nursing, he tells everyone that as long as I am feeding our son it is not a breast its more like a teet. He told his friend (who got a close up in the way described above) that as long as people realize nursing isn't sexual then there is nothing to worry about and he doesn't feel upset about people seeing me doing something completely natural. People need to start recognizing the dual function of the breast. Nursing is so far from sexual its like on another planet. People don't have a problem with seeing boobs flashed in movies (and lets be real it happens ALL the time) but for some reason the sight of a boob is cause for concern, what is wrong with this picture? When children are nursing you don't even see the nipple, so basically you are seeing the same amount of flesh that you would see in a lowcut blouse or in a bikini. Its crazy to me what people get worked up over.

LOL! This happened to me so many times when I was nursing. I would put a blanket over just the top of my breast (since you can't really see anything where the baby is eating) and so many people would come up and say, "Oh look at the baby, he is so sweet" The difference is they would actually get right up in his face before they realized I was nursing. I was always to slow to realize they were moving in to get a closer look, so I never warned them. It was always funny to see people reactions though. I am not a shy person so I couldn't care less but everyone else was always so embarrassed.

My husband is very relaxed when it comes to people getting a glimpse of me nursing, he tells everyone that as long as I am feeding our son it is not a breast its more like a teet. He told his friend (who got a close up in the way described above) that as long as people realize nursing isn't sexual then there is nothing to worry about and he doesn't feel upset about people seeing me doing something completely natural. People need to start recognizing the dual function of the breast. Nursing is so far from sexual its like on another planet. People don't have a problem with seeing boobs flashed in movies (and lets be real it happens ALL the time) but for some reason the sight of a boob is cause for concern, what is wrong with this picture? When children are nursing you don't even see the nipple, so basically you are seeing the same amount of flesh that you would see in a lowcut blouse or in a bikini. Its crazy to me what people get worked up over.
I wish more people would realise this. I think a lot of the different attitudes to breastfeeding are a result of ignorance, because of the "missing generations" when bottle-feeding became the "normal" way to feed a baby. I've had similar experiences to you, and someone even took a group photo once, completely oblivious to the fact that I was feeding my daughter at the time! He was really apologetic, but I knew that nothing would be visible in the photo, so I didn't mind. I suspect that some of us are almost too discrete, so that people just don't realise how normal and inoffensive breastfeeding is, because they don't know we are doing it!

I wish more people would realise this. I think a lot of the different attitudes to breastfeeding are a result of ignorance, because of the "missing generations" when bottle-feeding became the "normal" way to feed a baby. I've had similar experiences to you, and someone even took a group photo once, completely oblivious to the fact that I was feeding my daughter at the time! He was really apologetic, but I knew that nothing would be visible in the photo, so I didn't mind. I suspect that some of us are almost too discrete, so that people just don't realise how normal and inoffensive breastfeeding is, because they don't know we are doing it!

I completely agree. The thing is though most people don't realize that usually breastfeeding IS discreet. I mean unless you make a big show about unsnapping your bra and pulling out your boob, really you can't usually tell. I had alot of older people in my husband's family question me on why I was nursing. They bottle fed all their kids and while that is perfectly fine, I wish they would have given my choice the same respect as theirs. They would always say things like, well if he was on a bottle I coul feed him for you. Like I cared about other people feeding him though. Whatever, its like I always say, different strokes for different folks, eh?

A woman breastfed a child until they were 8 years old! Eww... I would be afraid there'd be some psychological issues with that child.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child? I would.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time? She wouldn't do it unless she wanted to.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast? I tend to think between 1-2 years.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing? I don't think they need it.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public? If they cover themselves and don't expose anything.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets? If there's like a lounge area with sofas and stuff it's fine, other than that, no, I don't think it's right to make her stand around or sit on a toilet.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
No, I wouldn't. But then again, I don't plan on having children.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
Well, I've heard stories of mothers doing it until the kids are 5 or higher, and that just seems unfair to the kid.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
A year.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
Probably more of a comfort thing.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Sure.

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
Maybe it just makes some people uncomfortable. There's a lot of things that are natural that some people still find uncomforting.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
It seems kind of wrong. Especially since they're dirty and smell.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

I plan on it whenever I have children.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

It is healthiest for both mother and baby at first, but there is point when it is no longer acceptable.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

If he can ask for it, its time to stop haha. But really, probably by the age of 18 months.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

Older children don't because they are able to receive all the nutrition through solid foods that they eat. Newborns need it most because it helps them to continue growing, helps their immune system, and helps them to be healthy overall.
So yes, it must just be a comfort thing.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Hmm... not sure about this one. I personally don't think I would ever do that. It certainly makes those around her feel uncomfortable. While I understand it needs to be done, mothers can certainly go to the bathroom and stand in a stall or sit on a couch if there is a lounge area in the bathroom.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

Hey, its part of life and has to be done. Sure it might not be so comfortable to stand/sit in a bathroom stall for 5 minutes but it has to be done.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Hmm... not sure about this one. I personally don't think I would ever do that. It certainly makes those around her feel uncomfortable. While I understand it needs to be done, mothers can certainly go to the bathroom and stand in a stall or sit on a couch if there is a lounge area in the bathroom.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

Hey, its part of life and has to be done. Sure it might not be so comfortable to stand/sit in a bathroom stall for 5 minutes but it has to be done.

Would you be willing to eat a meal in a toilet though???

Hey, its part of life and has to be done. Sure it might not be so comfortable to stand/sit in a bathroom stall for 5 minutes but it has to be done.
It can take longer than 5 minutes, though, and I was always reluctant to even take my kids inside public toilets, let alone sit there and feed them! No one would suggest that anyone should bottle-feed a baby in the toilet!

A public toilet is the most unsanitary place one could think of to breast or bottle feed a baby. I used to look for changing rooms in department stores that had a door where i could be undisturbed for a few minutes, but if I were on a public place like a beach I very quietly fed him where I was by using a blanket as a shield so that no one could see anything. I was very modest before my son was born, but afterwards my focus was on him and I didn't really care what other people thought. I figured if they were offended by the sight of a woman discreetly breastfeeding her child, that was their problem, not mine. I found some really good nursing tops that helped a lot when I was out in public with the baby.

I tried a breastfeeding sweatshirt with a zip, but I found the most discrete solution was a loose T-shirt with a jacket/cardigan/shirt on top. You lift up the T-shirt just where you need to, the baby is covering you from the front, and the jacket gives coverage from the sides.

I had alot of older people in my husband's family question me on why I was nursing. They bottle fed all their kids and while that is perfectly fine, I wish they would have given my choice the same respect as theirs. They would always say things like, well if he was on a bottle I coul feed him for you. Like I cared about other people feeding him though. Whatever, its like I always say, different strokes for different folks, eh?

Yeah, different strokes for different folks, but I wish the different folks would recognize the different strokes as all equally legitimate!

A woman breastfed a child until they were 8 years old! Eww... I would be afraid there'd be some psychological issues with that child.

8 years old is usually 3rd grade. Are you sure that story is true, or did you hear it secondhand? I would be surprised that a 3rd grader would still be breastfeeding...

8 years old is usually 3rd grade. Are you sure that story is true, or did you hear it secondhand? I would be surprised that a 3rd grader would still be breastfeeding...
I know a woman who breastfed her son until he was 5, although I think that's pretty extreme. He enjoyed the comfort of a bedtime feed, but was OK without it if his mum went out for the evening. But there are many cultures where extended breastfeeding is the norm. The average age of weaning around the world is 4.2 years - that means many children are breastfed much longer than this.

http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/LawExtended.html
The Evidence in Favor of Breastfeeding

There is no evidence that breastfeeding a child beyond infancy is harmful. Quite the opposite is true: breastfeeding benefits toddlers and young children, both nutritionally and psychologically. Breastmilk remains a valuable source of protein, fat, calcium, and vitamins well beyond two years of age. (1) Immunities in breastmilk become more concentrated as nurslings mature; (2) at the same time, the likelihood of allergies decreases. (3) Mothers who nurse past infancy derive benefits as well, including a decreased risk of breast and ovarian cancer the longer she continues nursing. (4)

Breastfeeding is a warm and loving way to meet the needs of toddlers and young children. It not only perks them up and energizes them; it also soothes the frustrations, bumps and bruises, and daily stresses of early childhood. In addition, nursing past infancy helps little ones make a gradual transition to childhood. In fact, prolonged nursing is associated with better social adjustment. (5)

Breastfeeding past infancy is as old as humanity. Still common in Western cultures as recently as a hundred years ago, the practice then underwent a sharp decline. Now, extended breastfeeding is becoming more popular, and medical professionals are beginning to recognize how valuable it is. While the American Academy of Pediatrics acknowledges the value of breastfeeding for the entire first year of life, (6) the US Surgeon General has stated that it is a lucky baby who continues to nurse until age two. (7) The World Health Organization emphasizes the importance of nursing up to two years of age or beyond. (8) What's more, the number of mothers currently nursing past infancy has created a nationwide market for a book on the subject, which includes an entire chapter on nursing past age four. (9)

Some people are upset, if not shocked, to learn that children can nurse for so long. Curiously, these same people are hardly surprised to see kindergartners sucking their thumbs or fingers. The truth is that the need to suck, like many other dependency needs, does not disappear overnight, and often lasts longer than we as a society are willing to accept. Indeed, the average age of weaning around the world is 4.2 years. (10)

Meeting a child's dependency needs is the key to helping that child achieve independence. And children outgrow these needs according to their own unique timetable. Some youngsters who continue to nurse well into childhood are for many years nearly weaned. Actual weaning, says La Leche League, is a personal decision to be made by each mother, based on her particular family situation and individual circumstances. (11) Mothers instinctively know when the time is right.

I breastfed my son to just under a year, circumstances forcing me to stop. However I have a cousin who breastfed both her girls to 2 years and a little more, and was perfectly comfortable with the extended time. She had the support of both her husband and mother and to this day says it was the best decision she's ever made.

Here in the US, at least, I think mothers are subtly pressured to stop breastfeeding sooner so that they can resume careers or become more mobile, but I think even a few months breastfeeding has palpable benefits for child and mother. I don't think it's a coincidence that my son's resistance to viruses etc. was very high while he was nursing. He didn't even get anything as major as an ear infection until he was over 3 years and in Nursery school.

8 years old is usually 3rd grade. Are you sure that story is true, or did you hear it secondhand? I would be surprised that a 3rd grader would still be breastfeeding...

It was featured in the programme I based this thread on, though I don't think the eight-year-old was breastfeeding regularly.

It was featured in the programme I based this thread on, though I don't think the eight-year-old was breastfeeding regularly.Some older children like to have a "taste" when mum is breastfeeding a younger sibling. Although when my daughter was curious about the taste of breastmilk, I expressed some into a cup for her (she didn't like it!). I've heard that it's natural in many societies for an older child to breastfeed after the baby has been fed - it maintains a good supply of milk for the little one, since breastmilk production is based on demand.

Here in the US, at least, I think mothers are subtly pressured to stop breastfeeding sooner so that they can resume careers or become more mobile, but I think even a few months breastfeeding has palpable benefits for child and mother.
Any breastmilk is better than none at all. I agree about the pressure, and part of that pressure is the general suspicion of mothers who choose extended breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is 100% positive for mother and child, and we are encouraged by WHO to continue for at least two years, but it takes a brave mum to look people in the face when they are implying that breastfeeding a 4 year old is perverted and will cause lasting psychological damage!

I am willing to bet that my cousin who breastfed for 2+ years would have had a different experience had she continued beyond 3 years. I remember reading in the novel A Tree Grows in Brooklyn how one little boy was still breastfeeding at the age of 4, to the despair of his mother and the scandal of the neighbors. In the novel, the woman was told to paint a horrible face on her breast to scare her child when he tried to feed again, and it worked. I bring this up because it seems to reflect the attitude in western society, at least, that babyhood is over at a certain age and that the older child must be more independent, including independent from the mother. That, plus as Anabel points out, a suspicion of the mother and her motives for prolonging breastfeeding, makes extended nursing frowned upon even though it is commonly accepted in societies that live closer with nature as a natural act and a natural method of birth control.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I did breastfeed - very successfully. :)

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
I don't think that you can state a specific period of time that a woman can breast feed for.
It really is up to the mother and the circumstances.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
When the child is ready.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
I daresay it is a comfort thing, but I wonder if this is a bad thing?

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
I think there is such a thing as discretion, but really if women are in a place that encourages topless sunbathing then there can be no reason why they can't bare breasts to feed their infant.
I think though, it is best to observe the customs of the area, and mostly this calls for discretion.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
I think it is the question of nudity.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I don't think much of that kind of attitude.
My answer, "Not a chance".
I had to feed my daughter on a train, and there was only the toilet on there. I refused and fed my daughter in the compartment on the train.
I did use discretion, I turned my back and didn't strip off, but I was not going into the toilets!

I daresay it is a comfort thing, but I wonder if this is a bad thing?Exactly! What is so bad about comforting a very small child? It's as though breastfeeding is just about permissible for nutritional reasons but the idea that a child can be comforted by sucking on its mother's breast is somehow obscene - which it totally isn't!
I had to feed my daughter on a train, and there was only the toilet on there. I refused and fed my daughter in the compartment on the train.
I did use discretion, I turned my back and didn't strip off, but I was not going into the toilets!
Good for you! I've never been challenged for breastfeeding in public, but I think it's very sad when people are offended by it, and put their own needs ahead of the needs of a hungry baby.

I've never been challenged for breastfeeding in public, but I think it's very sad when people are offended by it, and put their own needs ahead of the needs of a hungry baby.

Well said, although I think not wanting to see part of a naked breast is hardly a "need", whereas a baby definitely needs fed - there should be no question about which is more important.

Good for you! I've never been challenged for breastfeeding in public, but I think it's very sad when people are offended by it, and put their own needs ahead of the needs of a hungry baby.
Thanks :) I agree.
It's funny how militant I became about how my daughter was treated. I fed her in front of my father and mother-in-law as well. I'd never have believed I had it in me before she was born.

I've noticed an encouraging movement in the US lately to provide clean, private breastfeeding areas in places that families go to, including some amusement parks. I hope this catches on to include airports, train stations, malls etc so that nursing mothers don't have to experience the anxiety of trying to find a quiet spot for a feeding. I fed my son on a bench in the middle of our local mall and no one was the wiser, but it would have been nicer to have been in a quiet, private spot, perhaps even sharing with other nursing moms.

I've noticed an encouraging movement in the US lately to provide clean, private breastfeeding areas in places that families go to, including some amusement parks. I hope this catches on to include airports, train stations, malls etc so that nursing mothers don't have to experience the anxiety of trying to find a quiet spot for a feeding. I fed my son on a bench in the middle of our local mall and no one was the wiser, but it would have been nicer to have been in a quiet, private spot, perhaps even sharing with other nursing moms.
In that regard, I have seen a number of large stores or malls that provide a family lounge, which is quite large and includes toilet, diaper, clean-up, couch, etc., so that all those different things that a family with very small children can take care of those needs. It allows a man with is little daughter to assist her without taking her into the men's room, for instance. Or the parents can park the toddlers on the couch while a diaper gets changed. It seems to me that the couches woul;d also be appropriate for private breast-feeding, when they were large enough that you weren't crowded next to the toilet. Has anyone else used them this way, or do you find it reasonable or unreasonable a prospect?

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

Most definitely. I'm not a mother (I'm only 16 ;)) but when I do have children, I will breastfeed them assuming there are no complications or such.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

I think it's unfair to force the mom and child to stop if they're not willing/ready.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

When the child is ready. Most mums usually know when (I think).

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

I think it's more of a comfort thing; however, I don't really have a problem with mothers choosing to breastfeed for a longer period of time. It's their decision (and business!) after all.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Of course! Do people have a problem eating in public?

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

N/A.

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

I think it's because people feel uncomfortable at the sight of a bare breast. I know I used to go red if I saw any woman breastfeeding when I was 12 or so. Frankly, if I was breastfeeding, I would try my best to be discreet - and it's happened many times that I'm talking to a lady and it's after a while that I realise that she's actually breastfeeding a child - so I think it's perfectly possible. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed though.

A very funny (and cute) incident happened with my friend recently. Her 3 year old sister loves playing with dolls, and one day, my friend came to see what she was doing and was a little surprised to see her sister pretending to breastfeed her baby doll! It was rather embarassing, but her sister is such a cutie that I couldn't help laughing at the thought of her trying to breastfeed her doll. ;)

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

That's disgusting - I'd rather walk out of the restaurant than feed my baby in a toilet. I can't imagine any person wanting to eat in a toilet - why would then somebody force a baby to do so? :huh:

In that regard, I have seen a number of large stores or malls that provide a family lounge, which is quite large and includes toilet, diaper, clean-up, couch, etc., so that all those different things that a family with very small children can take care of those needs. It allows a man with is little daughter to assist her without taking her into the men's room, for instance. Or the parents can park the toddlers on the couch while a diaper gets changed. It seems to me that the couches woul;d also be appropriate for private breast-feeding, when they were large enough that you weren't crowded next to the toilet. Has anyone else used them this way, or do you find it reasonable or unreasonable a prospect?

My son is 15 so he was weaned long before the tide started to turn, but this is an idea that is long overdue. We pay so much lip service to family and family values here in the U.S. that it would be nice to provide families with these areas. They don't cost much and are easy to implement.

My favorite amusement park has a lot of family restrooms so dads can see to their daughters without resorting to the men's room which must be uncomfortable to the dad.
Small sofas would definitely be a great idea for the nursing moms and their children. I can't help but find the prospect of feeding a child in a toilet stall appalling; I would rather sit in the middle of a crowded mall and hope for the best.

In that regard, I have seen a number of large stores or malls that provide a family lounge, which is quite large and includes toilet, diaper, clean-up, couch, etc., so that all those different things that a family with very small children can take care of those needs. It allows a man with is little daughter to assist her without taking her into the men's room, for instance. Or the parents can park the toddlers on the couch while a diaper gets changed. It seems to me that the couches woul;d also be appropriate for private breast-feeding, when they were large enough that you weren't crowded next to the toilet. Has anyone else used them this way, or do you find it reasonable or unreasonable a prospect?
That sounds lovely!
A very funny (and cute) incident happened with my friend recently. Her 3 year old sister loves playing with dolls, and one day, my friend came to see what she was doing and was a little surprised to see her sister pretending to breastfeed her baby doll! It was rather embarassing, but her sister is such a cutie that I couldn't help laughing at the thought of her trying to breastfeed her doll.
That's sweet! We actually condition our children against breastfeeding by encouraging them to bottlefeed their dolls!

Heh, I remember I used to pretend to breastfeed my baby dolls a lot.

In that regard, I have seen a number of large stores or malls that provide a family lounge, which is quite large and includes toilet, diaper, clean-up, couch, etc., so that all those different things that a family with very small children can take care of those needs. It allows a man with is little daughter to assist her without taking her into the men's room, for instance. Or the parents can park the toddlers on the couch while a diaper gets changed. It seems to me that the couches woul;d also be appropriate for private breast-feeding, when they were large enough that you weren't crowded next to the toilet. Has anyone else used them this way, or do you find it reasonable or unreasonable a prospect?

I was in the baby changing room of a shopping centre with a friend last week while she changed her son, and it wasn't a place I'd like to spend any great length of time in. The smell coming from the nappy bin wasn't exactly fragrant, and any time I've been in it there's been a queue of mothers waiting outside to use it after us, meaning we wanted to be out of there as soon as possible.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

Of course! Do people have a problem eating in public?
That's a really good point, One that should be pointed out to people having a moan.

I just discovered this thread, and I love that people are discussing breastfeeding. :)

I never thought I'd have kids for much of my young life, so I thought in terms of the bottles and such that I was raised around. But i gave birth to my daughter in Sweden, where they were very matter-of-fact about the fact that breast feeding is natural and healthy. No one ever asked me to make The Big Choice. Instead, after my daughter was born I was told "Here's how you feed the baby," and they showed me how to breastfeed her.

I loved it. Aside form all the benefits that you've all written about before I got here, has anyone mentioned that it's REALLY cheap and convenient? I took that part for granted until I saw my sister shelling out cash for the formula, the bottles, the bottle warmer… all the paraphenalia that you pay money for and take time to prepare. I loved breastfeeding even more after I realized how much cheaper it was and how easy it made my life.

Of course, I was lucky enough able to be at home with my babies, so it was especially easy to breastfeed.

Sly Lady, let's also add how it helps the mother's body. It takes those extra pregnancy pounds off very efficiently, since you are pumping out very fatty milk (just as baby needs), and it helps other parts restore to their pre-pregnancy condition as well.

I loved it. Aside form all the benefits that you've all written about before I got here, has anyone mentioned that it's REALLY cheap and convenient? I took that part for granted until I saw my sister shelling out cash for the formula, the bottles, the bottle warmer… all the paraphenalia that you pay money for and take time to prepare. I loved breastfeeding even more after I realized how much cheaper it was and how easy it made my life.
I'll admit that this was a huge incentive for me to breastfeed, although the reduced risk of asthma and allergies for breastfed children weighed in pretty heavily too. It's great to be able to forget all that hassle with sterilising bottles and mixing feeds, and night feeding is particularly easy when all you have to do is reach out and take the baby into bed with you for a quiet feed.

Sly Lady, let's also add how it helps the mother's body. It takes those extra pregnancy pounds off very efficiently, since you are pumping out very fatty milk (just as baby needs), and it helps other parts restore to their pre-pregnancy condition as well. Well said! Not to mention that it's lovely to breastfeed. It's an intimate and sweet bond with your child. After you've gotten over the early days in the beginning and you're settled into it, it's a marvelous thing to share with your baby. :love:

There's a huge debate raging in Swedish newspaper at the moment. One of their columnist (Linda Skugge...) was asked not to breast feed at the table whilst in a Guide Michlin two star restaurant. She was shown to a couch behind a screen in an alcove of the resturant. She to HUGE offence and is raising hell over the fact that she wasn't allowed to breast feed by the table.
Personally...I think the resturant is right. Women should be allowed to breast feed in public but discretion should be used. I don't want to see any one brush their hair by the table and I don't really want to see them breast feed either. Eating dinner in a nice restaurant and someone taking out their breast (no matter how discretly) to basically let out some body fluids just doesn't mix in my opinion.

Eating dinner in a nice restaurant and someone taking out their breast (no matter how discretly) to basically let out some body fluids just doesn't mix in my opinion.To let out some body fluids????????? And if it's discrete, what is the problem anyway? Please raise your hand if you have ever seen a naked woman's breast in a nice restaurant. OK, now have you seen a baby in a nice restaurant? Chances are that baby was breastfed at some point. Personally I'd much rather see a baby being fed than an overly affectionate couple - put them behind the screen please!

Actually I have no problems with a nice, screened alcove, and I would probably choose to go and sit there, depending on who I was with at the restaurant. But I do have problems with being ordered to go there as if breastfeeding is something nasty and offensive.

There's a huge debate raging in Swedish newspaper at the moment. One of their columnist (Linda Skugge...) was asked not to breast feed at the table whilst in a Guide Michlin two star restaurant. She was shown to a couch behind a screen in an alcove of the resturant. She to HUGE offence and is raising hell over the fact that she wasn't allowed to breast feed by the table.
Personally...I think the resturant is right. Women should be allowed to breast feed in public but discretion should be used. I don't want to see any one brush their hair by the table and I don't really want to see them breast feed either. Eating dinner in a nice restaurant and someone taking out their breast (no matter how discretly) to basically let out some body fluids just doesn't mix in my opinion.
I dunno. Feeding the baby seems a little more important to me than brushing one's hair, so I don't exactly see this as a close comparison.

What I always wonder is, why do people insist on looking, if breastfeeding is distasteful to them? I find things that people do in public to be odd, eccentric, unpleasant occasionally and downright rude, but we always have the option to turn our eyes elsewhere. Or live a weary confrontational life as we try to get everyone to conform to our personal standards.

It's a busy overcrowded world we live in, and unless a woman exposes her breast right in one's face and demands that everyone watch her breastfeed, I think it's a valid decision just to not watch. When I dine in a delightful restaurant I'm way too busy talking with my companions and gazing appreciatively at the delicious food to be bothered staring at the breasts of a woman sitting at another table.

What I always wonder is, why do people insist on looking, if breastfeeding is distasteful to them? I find things that people do in public to be odd, eccentric, unpleasant occasionally and downright rude, but we always have the option to turn our eyes elsewhere.
I'll bet if someone stood up at their table and exposed their nether region so as to urinate, you would find it difficult to turn away, no matter how much it is NOT the sort of thing you would want to watch. I am fully aware that these are not the same functions, but the point is that some things are very difficult to turn away from. I think the most difficult part about public breastfeeding is not that it is distasteful, but just the opposite. It is fascinating and beautiful, and a person would very naturally WANT to watch, but know full well that doing so would be a major faux pas (and have a very high lielihood of eliciting a slap or punch).

I'll bet if someone stood up at their table and exposed their nether region so as to urinate, you would find it difficult to turn away, no matter how much it is NOT the sort of thing you would want to watch. I am fully aware that these are not the same functions, but the point is that some things are very difficult to turn away from. I think the most difficult part about public breastfeeding is not that it is distasteful, but just the opposite. It is fascinating and beautiful, and a person would very naturally WANT to watch, but know full well that doing so would be a major faux pas (and have a very high lielihood of eliciting a slap or punch). I believe the motivations for the two acts are would be, um… different. The reasons for watching are very different. Often, when I'm at the shopping mall I've sunk down on a bench, yes, in public, and found myself next to a young mom who's breastfeeding. I enjoy talking with them, and they're never offended that I notice. I used to do it myself, and it's nice to talk with someone who's shared the experience.

If a woman is so modest that she'd be offended at a stranger seeing her breastfeed, she'd breastfeed in complete privacy. Someone who's comfortable doing it in public won't slap a person who's watching appreciatively.

Having someone look because they appreciate seeing the bond between a mother and child is not something I feel is offensive. Juvenile leering is offensive, but not the fault of the breastfeeding mom. Having someone call the manager to have you removed because they think you're doing something disgusting is very upsetting.

Breastfeeding is just nature's way of feeding the baby. It doesn't seem to me to be such a big deal as to warrant a public frenzy.

I don't think people have to emulate other people's choices if they disagree with them, but I wish we could all learn to give each other a bit more space and try to respect something as positive and harmless as breastfeeding.

My favorite amusement park has a lot of family restrooms so dads can see to their daughters without resorting to the men's room which must be uncomfortable to the dad.
Small sofas would definitely be a great idea for the nursing moms and their children. I can't help but find the prospect of feeding a child in a toilet stall appalling; I would rather sit in the middle of a crowded mall and hope for the best.

Hey Olwen *waves*

At Disney world the first time I took my daughter she was only a month old and I was worried about finding a comfortable place to breastfeed but they had a really nice set up. They had a whole building just for moms with babies for changing,where you could buy baby food and breastfeeding. The room was very nice it was low lit with rockers. It was such a pleasant atmosphere. I think that all amusement parks should try to do the same it made things a lot less stressful.

Hey Olwen *waves*

At Disney world the first time I took my daughter she was only a month old and I was worried about finding a comfortable place to breastfeed but they had a really nice set up. They had a whole building just for moms with babies for changing,where you could buy baby food and breastfeeding. The room was very nice it was low lit with rockers. It was such a pleasant atmosphere. I think that all amusement parks should try to do the same it made things a lot less stressful. It makes it far more delightful to now you have a refuge when you need down time with a baby. Especially at an amusement park.

For moms who live near an Ikea store, they have nice, clean family restrooms, 2 small rooms, one with a comfortable chair and changing table, pleasant pictures on the walls too. They sell baby food in the restaurant. They also have an awesome childcare center where you can check your young child in for an hour, FREE, to be watched by child minders while you shop in peace. My daughter cried on the day we went there and she was finally too tall to go into the lovely room with all the fun toys and the friendly babysitters. (And she still wants us to use the family restroom, to remember those happy days when she was tiny!)

It makes it far more delightful to now you have a refuge when you need down time with a baby. Especially at an amusement park.

For moms who live near an Ikea store, they have nice, clean family restrooms, 2 small rooms, one with a comfortable chair and changing table, pleasant pictures on the walls too. They sell baby food in the restaurant. They also have an awesome childcare center where you can check your young child in for an hour, FREE, to be watched by child minders while you shop in peace. My daughter cried on the day we went there and she was finally too tall to go into the lovely room with all the fun toys and the friendly babysitters. (And she still wants us to use the family restroom, to remember those happy days when she was tiny!)


That sounds really nice! Shopping in peace is my everyday wish. :rotfl:

Hi back at ya Alwaysme

I noticed those rooms at Disney World and Ikea. They really get it right when it comes to accomodating nursing mothers and children, and in the scheme of things how much extra did it rally cost them when balanced out by the good will their accomodations generated?

I doubt if the Swedish columnist is going to win her case; restauraunts can set their own rules, and I probably would have liked the screened in area if it were cozy and private. However, breastfeeding is not akin to combing one's hair at the table, it is feeding a child in a natural way. My son was fed at table discreetly and no one saw anything except a shawl.

I had a different experience than Sly_Lady, though. The pediatrician at the hospital wasn't enthusiastic about breastfeeding and really pushed bottles as better for my needs. I found a pediatrician in my area who was so supportive and encouraging that he took 20 minutes of his time over the phone to walk me through some issues I had with breastfeeding and that was before I had even met him. I think his and his partner's support kept me going over rocky times and prevented me from giving up too early, and I eventually breastfed my son until he was 10 months. I think a lot of women give up because of lack of support.

There is nothing more convenient, cheaper and sweeter than nursing a baby; formulas and bottles are expensive in my area and I always wondered how fresh the contents of those cans were. And as my doctor pointed out, no need to sterilize anything either, lol. The extra weight burned off as well. But the best part of breastfeeding was the intimacy: I loved cuddling with my son in bed during a feed, and he never had to wait for a bottle to be ready. And another benefit is that breastfed babies' diapers are not nearly as foul for some reason.

I'm like you, Sly_Lady. I like to talk with nursing moms, too. It's good to let them know I've been there too, and give them encouragement. I never forgot the emcouragement I got from kind strangers.

Olwen it sounds like we have had the same experience. My pediatrician tried to push the bottle also.

My kids were large when they were born 9 pounds and 9 pounds 10 ounces,so the doctor kept saying that they probably needed a little supplementing with formula to fill their stomachs. That is totally absurd because babies can only hold so much in their bellies at one time anyhow. A lot of times when babies spit up they are being overfed. I finally had to be pretty stern about what I felt was right for my babies. It is quite out of character for me to ever be firm or rude about anything,so I think my doctor got the message crystal clear.

That's the exact opposite advice that my more supportive pediatricians gave. They advised against supplementing with a bottle because it would serve to decrease my milk supply. They had absolutely no problem with pumping and storing for times when I would be out of the house and somone else would do the feeding, but they were against introducing formula of any kind. My son went to a little rice cereal at 4 months because he was extremely colicky and they were worried I wasn't getting enough rest, but even then the rice cereal was mixed with breast milk.

That's the exact opposite advice that my more supportive pediatricians gave. They advised against supplementing with a bottle because it would serve to decrease my milk supply. They had absolutely no problem with pumping and storing for times when I would be out of the house and somone else would do the feeding, but they were against introducing formula of any kind. My son went to a little rice cereal at 4 months because he was extremely colicky and they were worried I wasn't getting enough rest, but even then the rice cereal was mixed with breast milk.


Your pediatrician is definitely right about it decreasing your milk level and I told my doctor that and it just went in one ear and out the other,so I just did what I wanted. My kids were always in the 95% percentile on their growth,so it wasn't like they weren't getting enough to eat. It seems today that quite a few pediatricians are pushing the bottle more and more. I am glad you had a supportive pediatrician. When I was in the hospital there are lactation nurses there to tell you all about breastfeeding and they were the first ones to warn me about doctors pushing the bottle.

I'm having trouble seeinghow having bottle milk around and letting the little one have some reduces the breast milk supply. I understand that the body responds to the demands that are placed on it, so that if the baby stops suckling because s/he prefers the bottle, that the demand would reduce. But the solution is to not allow bottle until a thorough draining of the breast milk is complete. If the baby is still hungry, how would allowing the bottle then affect the milk supply?

I've breastfed all three of my children, and my youngest is 7 months old. My boys were breast-fed into their toddler years (at 15 months and at 24 months). They are so bright and so communicative, I can't help but think it was the connection and responsiveness of that bonding that enabled this to take place.

I'm so comfortable with it now, but I had a heck of a time getting the hang of it in the beginning. I had to supplement my oldest son's nursing with formula because he was not a very good eater and would fall asleep within seconds every time (he's still not a great eater, in fact!). It would have been so easy to quit, but we stuck with it, and I am so glad! My milk supply was all over the place for months because of it. At around four months, I said, "I am just not going to listen to everyone about this" because everyone -- even the pediatricians -- had something different to say. And I stopped supplementing. He was getting bigger (always in the 95% or above) and I was tired of all of the problems from going back and forth. Within a few days, I had a full milk supply to meet his demands, and the engorgement stopped, the soreness stopped, the low-milk supply stopped -- it all just evened out.

8 years old is usually 3rd grade. Are you sure that story is true, or did you hear it secondhand? I would be surprised that a 3rd grader would still be breastfeeding...
I got that from like the first post in this thread. I'd suggest checking that out if you want to investigate the source.

I've breastfed all three of my children, and my youngest is 7 months old. My boys were breast-fed into their toddler years (at 15 months and at 24 months). They are so bright and so communicative, I can't help but think it was the connection and responsiveness of that bonding that enabled this to take place.

I'm so comfortable with it now, but I had a heck of a time getting the hang of it in the beginning. I had to supplement my oldest son's nursing with formula because he was not a very good eater and would fall asleep within seconds every time (he's still not a great eater, in fact!). It would have been so easy to quit, but we stuck with it, and I am so glad! My milk supply was all over the place for months because of it. At around four months, I said, "I am just not going to listen to everyone about this" because everyone -- even the pediatricians -- had something different to say. And I stopped supplementing. He was getting bigger (always in the 95% or above) and I was tired of all of the problems from going back and forth. Within a few days, I had a full milk supply to meet his demands, and the engorgement stopped, the soreness stopped, the low-milk supply stopped -- it all just evened out. My youngest was born a month early, at under 5 lbs, and she fell asleep 2 minutes into each feeding. But I was so stubborn that I hung in, pretty well exhausting myself in those first weeks, until she woke up and became more alert at feeding times. (She's still not a great eater either!)

I was very upset in the hospital though, because after she was born they took her away to the nursery, and I made a special trip there to check on her and feed her, but the nurses had just finished giving her a bottle. :no: After I'd given instructions every place I could and told everyone that I was breastfeeding. I was naive enough to be surprised that they'd do that, but now I realize that it's quite a common thing.

I was very upset in the hospital though, because after she was born they took her away to the nursery, and I made a special trip there to check on her and feed her, but the nurses had just finished giving her a bottle. After I'd given instructions every place I could and told everyone that I was breastfeeding. I was naive enough to be surprised that they'd do that, but now I realize that it's quite a common thing.
Yep, they did that to me, I left express (sorry) instructions that I was to be woken in the night so that I could feed my daughter and they told me that they had fed her during the night - they thought that they were doing me a favour! :grumble: I was not happy.
For three days I had very little milk and I was worried that she wasn't getting enough to survive (she dropped 10 ozs).
After the three days the milk was in and boy did I know it - I was even expressing and the milk was feeding some of the babies in the SCBU. (Special Care Baby Unit) :sigh: Can't do that now. :no:
BTW she put her weight back on within four days.

I was kind of surprised how fast my son was whisked away to the nursery after he was born. The nurse wrapped him up and placed him in my arms for a few minutes while the doctors attended to me, and then he was taken away. I was disappointed that I couldn't have more time with him to begin feeding him, but it seems there is a rigid structure to the labor/delivery/recovery rooms in hospitals here in the U.S. The only alternative is to choose to go to a birthing center or a hospital that has has birthing centers as alternatives. Because I was high risk I couldn't do that.

The nurses also gave him a bottle at some point which disturbed me, because I wanted to feed him myself right from the start. He was was 8lbs 8oz at birth, and also experienced a drop in weight which made me question my ability to feed him properly. I didn't experience a real let down of milk until I was home, and that brought my confidence level way up. After that I fed on demand and he stayed in a high percentile for weight.

I was kind of surprised how fast my son was whisked away to the nursery after he was born. The nurse wrapped him up and placed him in my arms for a few minutes while the doctors attended to me, and then he was taken away. I was disappointed that I couldn't have more time with him to begin feeding him, but it seems there is a rigid structure to the labor/delivery/recovery rooms in hospitals here in the U.S. The only alternative is to choose to go to a birthing center or a hospital that has has birthing centers as alternatives. Because I was high risk I couldn't do that.

That's just...wrong. Here in the UK babies aren't even taken away at night in hospitals.

I was kind of surprised how fast my son was whisked away to the nursery after he was born. The nurse wrapped him up and placed him in my arms for a few minutes while the doctors attended to me, and then he was taken away. I was disappointed that I couldn't have more time with him to begin feeding him, but it seems there is a rigid structure to the labor/delivery/recovery rooms in hospitals here in the U.S. The only alternative is to choose to go to a birthing center or a hospital that has has birthing centers as alternatives. Because I was high risk I couldn't do that.

The nurses also gave him a bottle at some point which disturbed me, because I wanted to feed him myself right from the start. He was was 8lbs 8oz at birth, and also experienced a drop in weight which made me question my ability to feed him properly. I didn't experience a real let down of milk until I was home, and that brought my confidence level way up. After that I fed on demand and he stayed in a high percentile for weight. My youngest was the only one of my kids to be born in a US hospital. My oldest was born in Sweden, and the middle one at a birthing center, because I quickly discovered that the hospital experience was not for me. I adored the birthing center experience, but we'd move to another state when I was pregnant for the third time, so I had to use the hospital here.

In my birthing center room I gave birth in the same king-size bed that I stayed in for the next day. After my son was born they wheeled in a newborn bassinet, but said, "Most people don't use it. You can have him sleep with you, if you want." :clap: That was a really outstanding night's sleep, because the little fruit of my labor was right there where I could see and touch him, instead of in a far off nursery. And needless to say, the midwives didn't offer formula.

The natural drop in weight, immediately after birth, can be so scary for a new mom, and too often it's used as a reason to encourage formula. When you consider the long history of humanity, would there be so many of us if lots of babies starved as the result of inadequate maternal lactation?

There are situations where a mom can't, for some physical reason, breastfeed, but the majority of us can produce like Elsie the Borden cow, with a little support and encouragement.

icklek posted: That's just...wrong. Here in the UK babies aren't even taken away at night in hospitals.

That's the way it should be. Here in the U.S., pregnancy and childbirth are treated like a medical condition, rather than a very natural stage of a woman's life. I thought my son was supposed to stay with me in the room, that's what I had been told, but when I was actually in hospital, the reality was much different.

Sly_Lady posted: In my birthing center room I gave birth in the same king-size bed that I stayed in for the next day. After my son was born they wheeled in a newborn bassinet, but said, "Most people don't use it. You can have him sleep with you, if you want." That was a really outstanding night's sleep, because the little fruit of my labor was right there where I could see and touch him, instead of in a far off nursery. And needless to say, the midwives didn't offer formula.

The natural drop in weight, immediately after birth, can be so scary for a new mom, and too often it's used as a reason to encourage formula. When you consider the long history of humanity, would there be so many of us if lots of babies starved as the result of inadequate maternal lactation?

That must have been so wonderful - I wish I could have done that. I think those first 24-48 hours are so vital to bonding with an infant. We carry them around for 9 months, feeling them move and kick and quiet for sleep and then suddenly they're gone and taken away. Far better to have that baby lie next to you in bed right from the start.

I think many women get subtly discouraged from breastfeeding at the very start of their hospital visit because of the loss of weight issue and because, frankly, even though it is a natural thing to do, it isn't easy to breastfeed properly for some without some kind of assistance from a nurse or lactation consultant. That's really a shame, too, because it's a wonderful experience if a woman gives her body a chance.

That's the way it should be. Here in the U.S., pregnancy and childbirth are treated like a medical condition, rather than a very natural stage of a woman's life. I thought my son was supposed to stay with me in the room, that's what I had been told, but when I was actually in hospital, the reality was much different.


That must have been so wonderful - I wish I could have done that. I think those first 24-48 hours are so vital to bonding with an infant. We carry them around for 9 months, feeling them move and kick and quiet for sleep and then suddenly they're gone and taken away. Far better to have that baby lie next to you in bed right from the start. The reason I ended up at the birthing center was that I was told when I toured the hospital, that upon being admitted in labor, I'd get a hep lock, just in case I needed fluids or a transfusion. And if I refused, they could refuse to treat me. I have a dislike of sharp things being stuck into me for no good reason. Since I was well into a low-risk 2nd pregnancy, I argued with the insurance company until they gave me the name of the only birthing center in the state. I drove 48 miles each way for prenatal visits, through Boston traffic, but it was well worth it.

I think many women get subtly discouraged from breastfeeding at the very start of their hospital visit because of the loss of weight issue and because, frankly, even though it is a natural thing to do, it isn't easy to breastfeed properly for some without some kind of assistance from a nurse or lactation consultant. That's really a shame, too, because it's a wonderful experience if a woman gives her body a chance. It's too bad there aren't enough women who've watched their mothers, sisters and friends breastfeed, so it wouldn't seem like such a scary thing. With enough experienced female friends to go to for support, maybe more women would at least try it.

My kids were large when they were born 9 pounds and 9 pounds 10 ounces,so the doctor kept saying that they probably needed a little supplementing with formula to fill their stomachs. That is totally absurd because babies can only hold so much in their bellies at one time anyhow. A lot of times when babies spit up they are being overfed. I finally had to be pretty stern about what I felt was right for my babies. It is quite out of character for me to ever be firm or rude about anything,so I think my doctor got the message crystal clear.Good for you! This sort of ridiculously outdated advice is one of the reasons women give up breastfeeding too soon. Milk supply adjusts according to demand, so supplementing with bottles leads to you not making enough milk, which leads to more supplementary bottles and even less milk ... Having a large baby is no reason not to breastfeed exclusively, since many mothers can happily breastfeed twins and triplets.

I'm having trouble seeinghow having bottle milk around and letting the little one have some reduces the breast milk supply. I understand that the body responds to the demands that are placed on it, so that if the baby stops suckling because s/he prefers the bottle, that the demand would reduce. But the solution is to not allow bottle until a thorough draining of the breast milk is complete. If the baby is still hungry, how would allowing the bottle then affect the milk supply?

Frequent feeding increases supply, so if the baby is still hungry they will feed more often and build up supply that way. As far as I can remember, 40% of the milk is produced within an hour of feeding, then 30% in the next hour, etc etc, and if you go more than 4 hours you aren't producing any more (from the brochure my midwife gave me). Formula milk takes longer to digest than breastmilk, so the baby doesn't want to feed again so soon, and the supply isn't built up. Also, bottle-feeding is less work for the baby (and doesn't encourage correct jaw-development), so babies will often prefer the bottle.

At around four months, I said, "I am just not going to listen to everyone about this" because everyone -- even the pediatricians -- had something different to say. And I stopped supplementing. He was getting bigger (always in the 95% or above) and I was tired of all of the problems from going back and forth. Within a few days, I had a full milk supply to meet his demands, and the engorgement stopped, the soreness stopped, the low-milk supply stopped -- it all just evened out.Conflicting advice is one of the hardest things to deal with. I'm really glad you got it sorted out in the end.
I was very upset in the hospital though, because after she was born they took her away to the nursery, and I made a special trip there to check on her and feed her, but the nurses had just finished giving her a bottle. After I'd given instructions every place I could and told everyone that I was breastfeeding. I was naive enough to be surprised that they'd do that, but now I realize that it's quite a common thing.
They still do that? I would have been really angry and kicked up a huge fuss about that. It is in direct opposition to the Baby-Friendly Hospital Initiative, which more and more hospitals around the world are adopting. The WHO and UNICEF recommend that the following Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding be implemented in every facility providing maternity services and care for newborn infants:

1. Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
2. Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
3. Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
4. Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within a half-hour of birth.
5. Show mothers how to breastfeed, and how to maintain lactation even if they should be separated from their infants.
6. Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, unless medically indicated.
7. Practice rooming-in: allow mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
8. Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
9. Give no artificial teats or pacifiers (also called dummies or soothers) to breastfeeding infants.
10. Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or clinic.

http://phs.os.dhhs.gov/ophs/BestPractice/MA_Boston.htmI think many women get subtly discouraged from breastfeeding at the very start of their hospital visit because of the loss of weight issue and because, frankly, even though it is a natural thing to do, it isn't easy to breastfeed properly for some without some kind of assistance from a nurse or lactation consultant. That's really a shame, too, because it's a wonderful experience if a woman gives her body a chance.In the "old days" there were mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and sisters all around to help a first-time mum with breastfeeding. Nowadays the chances our that the mothers, aunts and grandmothers bottle-fed their babies and can't offer much help at all, except to fret that baby "might not be getting enough" because you can't actually see the milk going down in the same way you can with bottle-feeding. Breastfeeding doesn't come naturally to everyone, and almost everyone has problems in the beginning. That's when the conflicting advice becomes a real problem.

I nursed both of my boys until they were about 2 but, like may of you, it wasn't easy at first (though the 2nd was much easier than the first).

My first had some difficulty breathing when he was born (36 hours of labor may have contributed to that!), and they immeidately rushed him away to the NICU. I didn't even get to hold him - they just placed him in an isolette and ran away. I remember asking the nurse of he was dead.

After a few hours he was breathing fine and I kept trying to talk to the Neonatologist treating him to find out why he was still in the NICU. Four days in the NICU and I never - NEVER - saw his DR. And this was in one of the highest ranked NICU's in the country! Needless to say, I did not have my second child at that hospital!

Anyway, I had told the nurses that I wanted to nurse him. Because he was in the NICU, I had to sign in and out to see him and go through security. And they didn't have any place to sit and nurse - you had to stay close to the isolette and there weren't any chairs so you had to stand or sit on the floor. One of the nurses finally gave me a chair when she watched me try to sit on the floor less than 6 hours after having a baby. The night nurse was great - she had been a lactaion consultant before becoming a NICU nurse and helped me get things started. My little guy was a great sucker from the beginning!

Unfortunately, the Neonatologists were really hung up on measuring how much he took in and wouldn't release him unless he drank a given amount at each feeding. When you nurse you can't measure how much goes in, so nursing for 30 minutes and then drinking half the measured dose of formula only counted as drinking half the required amount. The nurse finally told me that the only way to have my son released was to pump and let them give him the milk from a bottle so they could measure it. She said allowing him to suck at the breast would count againt him. I can even remember letting him suck for 5 mins at each breast and then popping him off and handing him to my husband so he could do the full bottle. What a nightmare.

The only reason he breastfed was becasue I was stubborn and wanted to do it. I can remember sitting at home crying because I felt so inadequate and couldn't find any help. The idiot lactation consultant at the hospital had actually told me to let him suck for a few imns on each breast and then give him a bottle until my milk came in. How exactly is your milk supposed to come in if you aren't nursing?! The hospital was no help, the pediatrician kept saying just give him a bottle, and my mother had no clue (she bottle fed). I finally found a really great lady with La Leche who talked me through everything and suggested stopping supplementing and just doing the breast for a few days. She said if I was concerned about his wieght gain I could go to the pediatrician and have him weighed. I did what she said and everything worked out. He even gained 2 pounds from when he was released from the hospital until his first appointment.

My experience with my second was much better. I was at a different hospital, and the let him nurse from the get go (he also did not end up in the NICU). He was really big (10 1/2 pounds and 24 inches long) and wanted to eat all the time! I finally told the nurses to give him a bottle and let me sleep through the night. Since he was my second I knew I'd be able to overcome any confusion he might develop as a result of taking one bottle and also knew that getting some rest was vital for me - those stinking beds - you can't lie down with your baby cuddle against you for fear that they will fall out between the rails!

I would have loved to have had a nice big bed to lie in!

Good for you, monster_mom, for being stubborn and sticking with it. :clap: :clap: It's inspiring to read some of these stories about what moms have gone through to be able to breastfeed. A triumph of the human spirit, I'd say!

That's one of the reasons I love to see moms going about their business and breastfeeding their babies. I think every one of those women, at least in America, has a story to tell about how their breastfeeding experience came to be. It's a shame we don't make it easier for them.

Anyway, I had told the nurses that I wanted to nurse him. Because he was in the NICU, I had to sign in and out to see him and go through security. And they didn't have any place to sit and nurse - you had to stay close to the isolette and there weren't any chairs so you had to stand or sit on the floor. One of the nurses finally gave me a chair when she watched me try to sit on the floor less than 6 hours after having a baby. The night nurse was great - she had been a lactaion consultant before becoming a NICU nurse and helped me get things started. My little guy was a great sucker from the beginning!

Unfortunately, the Neonatologists were really hung up on measuring how much he took in and wouldn't release him unless he drank a given amount at each feeding. When you nurse you can't measure how much goes in, so nursing for 30 minutes and then drinking half the measured dose of formula only counted as drinking half the required amount. The nurse finally told me that the only way to have my son released was to pump and let them give him the milk from a bottle so they could measure it. She said allowing him to suck at the breast would count againt him. I can even remember letting him suck for 5 mins at each breast and then popping him off and handing him to my husband so he could do the full bottle. What a nightmare.

The only reason he breastfed was becasue I was stubborn and wanted to do it. I can remember sitting at home crying because I felt so inadequate and couldn't find any help. The idiot lactation consultant at the hospital had actually told me to let him suck for a few imns on each breast and then give him a bottle until my milk came in. How exactly is your milk supposed to come in if you aren't nursing?! The hospital was no help, the pediatrician kept saying just give him a bottle, and my mother had no clue (she bottle fed). I finally found a really great lady with La Leche who talked me through everything and suggested stopping supplementing and just doing the breast for a few days. I would have loved to have had a nice big bed to lie in!

It is so frustrating when hospitals work against mothers. How could there not be a nursing chair in the NICU? That's horrible.

I wonder at the stupidity of professionals who but barriers in the way of women who want to breastfeed even the tiniest babies. Mother's milk is so much better for them than the bottle; that's why hospitals often ask women to pump extra for preemies. They should have encouraged you and every other mother in the NICU to breastfeed, if for no other reason than the immunities and benefits it entails.

The lactation consultant in our hospital was no help. My pediatricians were great because they were advocates for breastfeeding, and I also found La Leche literature to be very helpful. One thing I now understand from all this is that no matter what age your child is, from birth on upwards you have to be his/her advocate and that means being extremely stubborn at times like those when you are being given bad advice about breast feeding.

Doesn't that king sized bed in the birthing center sound great? I'm so jealous.

La Leche League is wonderful, and their literature is good stuff, isn't it?

Olwen, your point about being an advocate for your child is so important. The breastfeeding decision is only the start of many years of 'constant vigilance,' on behalf of our kids. And it's a no-brainer, compared with the headaches that lie ahead when a kid starts school, and when the peer pressure kicks in.

Anyway… BREASTFEEDING -YAY!

And yes, more women should have that birthing center experience. The supportive midwives and the king sized bed were awesome. They let you choose what you want you birth to be like too.

So many horror stories of dreadful maternity units and staff! I'm grateful that I didn't have to go through that. I'm very lucky in that both my kids were born in Norway, where the breastfeeding rate is over 90%, and breastfeeding was actively encouraged every step along the way. I was able to have my babies with me round the clock and feed on demand, and the staff had lots of helpful tips. My first child fed a lot and didn't sleep much and my nipples cracked and bled, but I was determined not to give up, and after the first two weeks there were no more problems, although I never did get the hang of expressing more than a very small amount. With my second child it was a lot easier, because I knew what I was doing, and even though he was born by emergency caesarian, I was able to have him with me all the time as soon as I came round from the anaesthetic. My friends all breastfed too, so there was plenty of good advice and support to be had. I wish all hospitals were as knowledgeable and helpful as my local one.

You guys are making me feel really really good about my decision to use a birthing center for this baby.

My main turn off from the hospital was the possibility of being separated from my child in those first few critical hours. I knew that once out of the womb that kid is not leaving mine or my husband's arms until I get home which did not sit well with hospital staff.

I don't want even the slightest risk of them feeding my kid with formula. Plus my husband is my best friend, I want him involved with everything having to do with this kid. He plans on catching and lord knows I could not keep him from those first few days of cuddles. :)

You guys are making me feel really really good about my decision to use a birthing center for this baby.

My main turn off from the hospital was the possibility of being separated from my child in those first few critical hours. I knew that once out of the womb that kid is not leaving mine or my husband's arms until I get home which did not sit well with hospital staff.

I don't want even the slightest risk of them feeding my kid with formula. Plus my husband is my best friend, I want him involved with everything having to do with this kid. He plans on catching and lord knows I could not keep him from those first few days of cuddles. :) OOOOOO! So you're gonna have a baby???? So cool. :clap: Congrats! If there's a birthing center you can use, definitely check it out. It's so much nicer than the hospital experience.

Can we veer off topic so I can ask for details? Doctors or midwives, or both? Freestanding building or inside a hospital??? I'm so excited to hear that some women are opting for this experience, and that there are some birthing centers out there. My whole experience was wonderful at the birthing center. I hope your's will be excellent too. :D

Again, BREASTFEEDING - YAY!

http://www.abirthcenter.com/

Thats my birth center. Its the only one that is overseen by a doctor but you are tended to by midwives. Should anything go wrong and I am transfered to a hospital, the doctor who runs the center will take care of me instead of who ever is on call which is awesome since he has the birth center mentality. It is on the fourth floor of an office building so I guess it is freestanding.

I am shooting for a water birth but am just going to play the experience by ear and listen to what the old body tells me.

They have a childbirth educator on staff who is also a certified lactation consultant. She is one of those people you love the moment you meet her. :)

I feel really good about this decision but it comes with a price. As sad as it is, whether you are going natural birth or simply breastfeeding, too many people think your a psychopath. I am bombarded with why go through that pain when they make drugs now? Why expose your breasts in public when the good people at Carnation developed formula for you to use? Then when you explain the merits of breastfeeding they get all huffy like you are insulting them personally "well, I raised all of my children on formula and they turned out just fine!" Nevermind that they are actively insulting your feeding choice.

My husband's friend just had a baby boy before Christmas. When we announced our pregnancy they naturally came forth with all sorts of advice but they are way more conservative then us. I asked him about his wife breastfeeding hoping to get a first hand account. They called us crazy hippies for wanting too and said they were not comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. The most natural thing in the world! He simply passed it off as something animals did and humans had no business doing it.

I am still in a bit of shock but to each his own.

I feel really good about this decision but it comes with a price. As sad as it is, whether you are going natural birth or simply breastfeeding, too many people think your a psychopath. I am bombarded with why go through that pain when they make drugs now? Why expose your breasts in public when the good people at Carnation developed formula for you to use? Then when you explain the merits of breastfeeding they get all huffy like you are insulting them personally "well, I raised all of my children on formula and they turned out just fine!" Nevermind that they are actively insulting your feeding choice.

My husband's friend just had a baby boy before Christmas. When we announced our pregnancy they naturally came forth with all sorts of advice but they are way more conservative then us. I asked him about his wife breastfeeding hoping to get a first hand account. They called us crazy hippies for wanting too and said they were not comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. The most natural thing in the world! He simply passed it off as something animals did and humans had no business doing it.

I am still in a bit of shock but to each his own.In my mind, there is no doubt who the crazy people are here! Breastfeeding had almost become a lost art in "civilised" society until quite recently. If you follow their argument to it's natural conclusion, we should stop exposing our bodies to the inconvenience and risks of pregnancy and childbirth, and make babies in laboratories! (And believe me, after you've been through 9 months of being poked, prodded, and having your most intimate areas ogled by dozens of different people in white coats, not to mention complete strangers' hands up your *******, breastfeeding is NOTHING!)

http://www.abirthcenter.com/

Thats my birth center. Its the only one that is overseen by a doctor but you are tended to by midwives. Should anything go wrong and I am transfered to a hospital, the doctor who runs the center will take care of me instead of who ever is on call which is awesome since he has the birth center mentality. It is on the fourth floor of an office building so I guess it is freestanding.

I am shooting for a water birth but am just going to play the experience by ear and listen to what the old body tells me.

They have a childbirth educator on staff who is also a certified lactation consultant. She is one of those people you love the moment you meet her. :)

I feel really good about this decision but it comes with a price. As sad as it is, whether you are going natural birth or simply breastfeeding, too many people think your a psychopath. I am bombarded with why go through that pain when they make drugs now? Why expose your breasts in public when the good people at Carnation developed formula for you to use? Then when you explain the merits of breastfeeding they get all huffy like you are insulting them personally "well, I raised all of my children on formula and they turned out just fine!" Nevermind that they are actively insulting your feeding choice.

My husband's friend just had a baby boy before Christmas. When we announced our pregnancy they naturally came forth with all sorts of advice but they are way more conservative then us. I asked him about his wife breastfeeding hoping to get a first hand account. They called us crazy hippies for wanting too and said they were not comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. The most natural thing in the world! He simply passed it off as something animals did and humans had no business doing it.

I am still in a bit of shock but to each his own. Your birthing center looks totally wonderful and I'm really happy for you. You and your husband sound like amazing advocates for your baby, right from the start.

Having gone through natural childbirth and been called a masochist (in the most cheery way imaginable) I can say I'm glad that I was mentally and physically present during labor. To go through childbirth drugged and never know what it feels like to birth a baby was not for me. It's an amazingly intense thing, and it did hurt, but it's a primal feeling that we only experience while giving birth.

About breastfeeding, since this is what the thread is actually about, there are pages of great things already here. Good for you, for learning about the whole subject and standing firm in your decision. It sounds like your midwives will offer excellent support, so you'll be fine. Have fun with it!

http://www.abirthcenter.com/

I feel really good about this decision but it comes with a price. As sad as it is, whether you are going natural birth or simply breastfeeding, too many people think your a psychopath. I am bombarded with why go through that pain when they make drugs now? Why expose your breasts in public when the good people at Carnation developed formula for you to use? Then when you explain the merits of breastfeeding they get all huffy like you are insulting them personally "well, I raised all of my children on formula and they turned out just fine!" Nevermind that they are actively insulting your feeding choice.

My husband's friend just had a baby boy before Christmas. When we announced our pregnancy they naturally came forth with all sorts of advice but they are way more conservative then us. I asked him about his wife breastfeeding hoping to get a first hand account. They called us crazy hippies for wanting too and said they were not comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. The most natural thing in the world! He simply passed it off as something animals did and humans had no business doing it.

I am still in a bit of shock but to each his own.

Congratulations on your great expectation, IC_Thestrals! There is never any finer news than that.

The birthing center sounds like a wonderful alternative to the hospital setting. Because ther was a blood factor issue with a first child who was big for my small frame, my doctors were concerned about an emergency caesarean so I went to hospital, had an epidural and the rest was history. The epidural did let me get sleep which was good because I hadn't slept in over 36 hours, but what people often don't know is that it has to wear off for delivery so my delivery was natural and painful, but I would have done it again in a heartbeat if I could have.

Pregnancy is so often a time when complete strangers think nothing of patting a bulging belly and advice, some of which is absolutely worthless, abounds. I always filtered out the negatives and looked for positive role models like the co-worker who had nursed her own boys 20 years previously. It's not a crazy, hippie thing to do, it's using one's body in the way it's been intended by nature. People who have problems with that are often uncomfortable with their own bodily functions. Fortunately I was blessed by a mother who bottlefed us but told me that seeing me feeding my son was the most beautiful sight she had ever seen, and I feel the same when I see other women feeding their children.

As to the negative people? I learned to turn a deaf ear and follow my own heart.

Hey, do you think there's enough interest in making a pregnancy stories thread? I wonder if we're pusing the limits of breastfeeding with this related, but different topic. :)

Hey, do you think there's enough interest in making a pregnancy stories thread? I wonder if we're pusing the limits of breastfeeding with this related, but different topic. :)

Interesting question, I didn't mean to derail but I think we are all doing a pretty good job in bringing it back to breastfeeding. Might be fun to start a general pregnancy discussion thread. I just don't know where it would go because it can be a touchy topic at times.

EDIT: I did a search and didn't see any related threads to general preggo discussion. :D The Leaky Cauldron area might be good.

:wow: The past week, we are dealing with -- OUCH! -- those first new teeth.

Oh, I remember the surprise of the first little nips from those bottom teeth - like a puppy, lol. Eventually he learned how not to nip and we sailed past that hurdle, but it took a week's worth of effort.

my screams of pain always scare them -- then I feel awful...

my screams of pain always scare them -- then I feel awful...
I managed to grit my teeth, but ... pain!

my screams of pain always scare them -- then I feel awful...
The screams of pain are what teach them not to do it, since they don't grasp elaborate explanations! :p I remember those brand new, tiny, sharp teeth very well.

Thiose sharp little teeth are agony! And just when you think you are getting the hang of things! Add to it that all they want do is suck when they are teething and you start to feel like a pin cushion!

A lovely La Leche lactaion consultant friend of mine suggested Ambesol - the stuff you put on your babies gums to ease the pain of teething. Not for the baby, for me! She said to put a little on my breast a bit before nursing and wait until it dried. Then pop the baby on and relax. I was shocked that it actually worked - though you do want to make sure to get unflavored - somehow I ended up with grape flavor and both babies balked at that!

I didn't really have a problem with biting. Both my kids bit me with their hard little gums, and learned not to do it before their teeth came in.

Thiose sharp little teeth are agony! And just when you think you are getting the hang of things! Add to it that all they want do is suck when they are teething and you start to feel like a pin cushion!

A lovely La Leche lactaion consultant friend of mine suggested Ambesol - the stuff you put on your babies gums to ease the pain of teething. Not for the baby, for me! She said to put a little on my breast a bit before nursing and wait until it dried. Then pop the baby on and relax. I was shocked that it actually worked - though you do want to make sure to get unflavored - somehow I ended up with grape flavor and both babies balked at that! That's hilarious, monster_mom, and really practical too! Do your kids dislike the taste of grape juice and grape popsicles to this very day?

They love all things grape - just not grape doo doo milk (what they called breast milk)

I could have hugged her for suggesting the idea! And I really wish I'd known about it in those first days of nursing when you are soooooo sore and everyone you ask says breastfeeding shouldn't hurt!

They love all things grape - just not grape doo doo milk (what they called breast milk)

I could have hugged her for suggesting the idea! And I really wish I'd known about it in those first days of nursing when you are soooooo sore and everyone you ask says breastfeeding shouldn't hurt!
Heavens! Did people tell you that it shouldn't hurt? At first it certainly did for me.

I wish someone had told me about that brilliant idea, period. Well, someday when I'm a granny I'll pass that on to my daughter.

I agree with breastfeeding just as long as the baby is getting enough, because there is no way to gauge how much the baby is getting if they are eating straight from the breast. That's where the wonder of breast pumps comes in.

I agree with breastfeeding just as long as the baby is getting enough, because there is no way to gauge how much the baby is getting if they are eating straight from the breast. That's where the wonder of breast pumps comes in. If the baby is contented and gaining weight, he or she's getting enough. If they're really not getting enough, they're ravenous and they cry all the time. Most of the breastfed babies I know get so delightfullly fat that people worry about them getting too much! You should've seen the chubby creases on my babies' wrists and ankles. Not to mention the tiny thunder thighs. And they're all perfectly normal weight people now.

Pumps are handy in some situations, and essential if a mom has to go back to work, but they're a lot more work than just feeding the baby.

I realise that, but sometimes its just not enough for the baby to be fed straight from the mother, that was the point I was trying to make

I could have hugged her for suggesting the idea! And I really wish I'd known about it in those first days of nursing when you are soooooo sore and everyone you ask says breastfeeding shouldn't hurt!I wouldn't actually want to do this in the first weeks, when mum and baby are still learning about latching on correctly, because you need to be able to feel what is going on (even when it hurts). But once the technique is established, or even for the occasional feed when you are very sore, it sounds like a great idea!
I agree with breastfeeding just as long as the baby is getting enough, because there is no way to gauge how much the baby is getting if they are eating straight from the breast. That's where the wonder of breast pumps comes in.
I did read that you can weigh the baby before and after feeding, but you'd need very accurate scales and I never tried it. But if the baby is happy and is producing several wet nappies/diapers a day, there really isn't anything to worry about. Fretting about how many ounces of milk the baby consumes is just something we do to pacify the bottle-feeding generation who can't quite believe that milk is going down if they can't see it with their own eyes!

I did read that you can weigh the baby before and after feeding, but you'd need very accurate scales and I never tried it. But if the baby is happy and is producing several wet nappies/diapers a day, there really isn't anything to worry about. Fretting about how many ounces of milk the baby consumes is just something we do to pacify the bottle-feeding generation who can't quite believe that milk is going down if they can't see it with their own eyes! My mom was completely obsessed with thinking that ounces mattered. But she bottle fed, and was quite disgusted that I breastfed my babies.

Right on, anabel, the diapers are the indicator. That and the fact that you can feel when you have milk, and you can feel when you're empty. All of that and a contented baby mean things are going well.

A lovely La Leche lactaion consultant friend of mine suggested Ambesol - the stuff you put on your babies gums to ease the pain of teething. Not for the baby, for me! She said to put a little on my breast a bit before nursing and wait until it dried. Then pop the baby on and relax. I was shocked that it actually worked - though you do want to make sure to get unflavored - somehow I ended up with grape flavor and both babies balked at that!

What a fantastic idea, monster_mom. I had such a hard time with cracks and soreness the first few weeks, that this would have been a godsend.

I didn't have to weigh my son either, he wasn't a fat baby, but he sure was a ong one and he had a little pot belly. :lol: Some family members of course blamed his colicky behavior on not getting enough breast milk, but he was weighed once a week and the doctors were fine with his progress. Unfortunately, the finger always gets pointed at breastfeeding first as if the world's population up until the mid 40s somehow managed to make it through infancy in spite of being fed in that manner, lol.

I did have to pump for a while when I returned to work for a short period before opting to get laid off. I bought 3 or 4 pumps until I found one that fit properly and did a good job. That's where the naysayers should have a good look, because I pumped out a good 8 ounces and more for a bottle when I had to.

Anabel, I agree totally with the wet and soiled diapers; in fact that's what the pediatricians told me as well and I passed it on to the negative parties in our midst.:lol:

I didn't have to weigh my son either, he wasn't a fat baby, but he sure was a ong one and he had a little pot belly. :lol: Some family members of course blamed his colicky behavior on not getting enough breast milk, but he was weighed once a week and the doctors were fine with his progress. Unfortunately, the finger always gets pointed at breastfeeding first as if the world's population up until the mid 40s somehow managed to make it through infancy in spite of being fed in that manner, lol.
Doesn't it make you wonder how much easier it would be to breastfeed if our own family members didn't stand by doubting and shaking their heads? Years later, I realized that if my grandmothers had been alive when I had my first baby, I'd have had wonderful support, because they both did it!

Even my grandmother was convinced that she "had to" give supplementary bottles to make sure my dad got "enough", and that was in wartime when milk was rationed and both she and my dad were healthy. It was common in those days to give babies diluted tinned evaporated milk! It's awful the way medical professionals can make a mother doubt her own ability to feed her child! I'm sure that historians will look back on the 20th century practice of feeding babies powdered, reconstituted cows milk with artificial vitamins added in much the same way as we look back on people who believed the world was flat!

I did read that you can weigh the baby before and after feeding, but you'd need very accurate scales and I never tried it. But if the baby is happy and is producing several wet nappies/diapers a day, there really isn't anything to worry about. Fretting about how many ounces of milk the baby consumes is just something we do to pacify the bottle-feeding generation who can't quite believe that milk is going down if they can't see it with their own eyes!
I think you misunderstand, possibly. I really DO believe in breastfeeding, its one of the best things you could do for a baby

I think you misunderstand, possibly. I really DO believe in breastfeeding, its one of the best things you could do for a babyI know you do. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my post.

Even my grandmother was convinced that she "had to" give supplementary bottles to make sure my dad got "enough", and that was in wartime when milk was rationed and both she and my dad were healthy. It was common in those days to give babies diluted tinned evaporated milk! It's awful the way medical professionals can make a mother doubt her own ability to feed her child! I'm sure that historians will look back on the 20th century practice of feeding babies powdered, reconstituted cows milk with artificial vitamins added in much the same way as we look back on people who believed the world was flat! Ew! Evaporated milk is yucky! I guess it's a triumph of the human constitution that babies can thrive in spite of the strange alternatives to breast milk they're sometimes fed.

I'm afraid historians will also look back at 21st century America in dismay, since I think less women than ever are doing it than they did 10-20 years ago. Although I don't have any statistics at my fingertips to back that up.

I didn't really have a problem with biting. Both my kids bit me with their hard little gums, and learned not to do it before their teeth came in.


My kids bit me with their gums too. :lol: Never with their teeth,my kids didn't get their first tooth until my son was 10 months old and my daughter was 11 months old. I weaned them both at a year and luckily it was an easy transition.

I'm afraid historians will also look back at 21st century America in dismay, since I think less women than ever are doing it than they did 10-20 years ago. Although I don't have any statistics at my fingertips to back that up.

Breastfeeding stats UK (http://www.nct.org.uk/breastfeeding/statistics.html)

I'm not sure about America, but in Britain, breastfeeding has been steadily increasing. There are still far too many mums who don't even try it, though.

"NB: The incidence of breastfeeding is defined as the percentage of babies who were put to the breast at least once."

And this link, because it was so interesting. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2621537.stm) Check out the other breastfeeding links there too!

I breastfed my kids in the van, but I always try to keep us covered up -- more for my own comfort than anyone else's. After breastfeeding my 3 kids, I don't have a problem with other women who do it in public, but I think it's a shame that so many people are actually offended by the sight of women feeding their own children the way God intended!

Some people who've stared long enough to figure out what I was doing seem to know not to make an issue of it, but others really made no effort to hide their opinion -- Shaking their heads and things slamming their car doors and things like that. Believe it or not, it's typically older men and women, who were likely raised feeling that it was just smarter and more civilized to bottle-feed. It's too bad, isn't it, that the sight of a woman feeding her baby in her own car can bring out that feeling in some people?

I don't think there is anything wrong with breastfeeding in public. If i saw someone breastfeeding in public, i would just turn the other way because staring is wrong. I don't know why people get so mad.

Some people who've stared long enough to figure out what I was doing seem to know not to make an issue of it, but others really made no effort to hide their opinion -- Shaking their heads and things slamming their car doors and things like that. Believe it or not, it's typically older men and women, who were likely raised feeling that it was just smarter and more civilized to bottle-feed. It's too bad, isn't it, that the sight of a woman feeding her baby in her own car can bring out that feeling in some people?

I think that hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of anti-breastfeeding sentiment comes from repressive attitudes towards sexuality in general; a woman should "cover up", "act like a lady", etc. The sight of a child feeding makes people uneasy because they haven't completely sorted out the nourishing function of the female breast from the erotic one and that, for them, is an uncomfortable thought and sight.

I think that hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of anti-breastfeeding sentiment comes from repressive attitudes towards sexuality in general; a woman should "cover up", "act like a lady", etc. The sight of a child feeding makes people uneasy because they haven't completely sorted out the nourishing function of the female breast from the erotic one and that, for them, is an uncomfortable thought and sight. You're right, there's a bit of confusion about the function of breasts. Is it because so many people grew up thinking that bottles are the only way we feed babies that they're honestly shocked that breaasts make milk? Odd, but I think it's possible.

I was pretty peeved today to see that the Family Circus cartoon was about sterilizing baby bottles. Yeah, it could be just bottles used to give juice to PJ (he walks, so juice would be expected), but they could have made it a pacifier or something rather than giving the implicit message that 'bottles are the way it is done.'

I was pretty peeved today to see that the Family Circus cartoon was about sterilizing baby bottles. Yeah, it could be just bottles used to give juice to PJ (he walks, so juice would be expected), but they could have made it a pacifier or something rather than giving the implicit message that 'bottles are the way it is done.' Isn't that cartoon recycled from the sixties, or something? Those were the glory days of bottle feeding, so it doesn't surprise me.

I'm more surprised that in the decades since then, no one's come up with a more timely Sunday comic.

Just to be fair, there are issues that prevent successful breastfeeding:
http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/birthmatters.htm
"The next morning, I started my attempts at breastfeeding, but he refused to latch on the whole three days we were in the hospital," says Hill. "When I got home, I kept trying, but it was no use. So I started giving him formula because he was so hungry." ..."While there is no clinical data or research literature to back this up, any maternity nurse can tell you that, generally speaking, the more straightforward the birth, the easier the breastfeeding will be," she says...This, of course, doesn't include other complications such as a premature, sick, tongue-tied baby or other physical barriers that may hinder breastfeeding, like inverted or flat nipples.
According to Jacobi, as soon as the birth is complicated by medications for things like pre-eclampsia, excess blood loss, infection or pain, or the labor becomes prolonged and such things as forceps or vacuum extractions occur, the mom becomes more tired and depleted, as does the baby. "All of these things have an impact on initial breastfeeding contact: when it occurs, how often and how well or poorly it goes," she says.
To be fair, there is some dissent about the difficulty of the birth affecting how well a child takes to breastfeeding, but the other issues mentioned aren't being argued.

Isn't that cartoon recycled from the sixties, or something? Those were the glory days of bottle feeding, so it doesn't surprise me.

I'm more surprised that in the decades since then, no one's come up with a more timely Sunday comic.

The good news is that at least two modern comics have main characters who breastfeed their babies: For Better or Worse a Canadian comic strip, and Baby Blues, and another character is pregnant on Stone Soup. It will be interesting to see what the writer has her do. It seems like the tide is slowly changing.

Originally posted by clkginny...This, of course, doesn't include other complications such as a premature, sick, tongue-tied baby or other physical barriers that may hinder breastfeeding, like inverted or flat nipples.

I know there are devices to help mothers with inverted nipples; the La Leche League has educational material about them, as well as help for the mother of premature babies. Sometimes, depending on the hospital, other mothers are encouraged to donate milk for preemies. The hospital where I delivered my son did this.

This, of course, doesn't include other complications such as a premature, sick, tongue-tied baby or other physical barriers that may hinder breastfeeding, like inverted or flat nipples.
While I sympathise very much with women who wanted to breastfeed but were unsuccessful, I do think that the majority of the problems they encountered could have been solved with qualified help. Just reading the last two pages of this thread shows that a lot of medical professionals give bad or outdated advice about feeding, plus there is the problem of family members with no experience of breastfeeding "pushing" the bottle. New mums are naturally anxious about "getting it right" and are very vulnerable to bad advice. This is not the mother's fault, but a lot more mums would breastfeed for longer if they received the right help and advice. The statistics I linked to before show that most mothers would have preferred to have breastfed longer than they did.

You can still breastfeed with inverted nipples, although latching on will be harder to begin with. And if a baby is too weak to suck properly, you can express and feed him/her by tube.

The sight of a child feeding makes people uneasy because they haven't completely sorted out the nourishing function of the female breast from the erotic one and that, for them, is an uncomfortable thought and sight.This reminds me of a post I read yesterday in the Homosexuality thread. Someone had said it was unfair for kids to live with gay parents, because they would suffer so much prejudice. The natural response to this was that if prejudice is the problem, then the answer is to fight the prejudice, rather than to avoid provoking it. The same applies to brestfeeding. If people have a problem with a woman breastfeeding her child discreetly in public, then the solution is not to stop the feeding, but to educate people and fight the prejudice.

This reminds me of a post I read yesterday in the Homosexuality thread. Someone had said it was unfair for kids to live with gay parents, because they would suffer so much prejudice. The natural response to this was that if prejudice is the problem, then the answer is to fight the prejudice, rather than to avoid provoking it. The same applies to brestfeeding. If people have a problem with a woman breastfeeding her child discreetly in public, then the solution is not to stop the feeding, but to educate people and fight the prejudice.
Education is the answer to many of the major controversies in human society, I think.

Another thing I feel is vastly underused is the simple concept of minding your own business.

Maybe it's because most of us live so crowded together in urban societies, maybe some other reasons. But why do so many people feel compelled to judge the way that other people live?

It seems that the simple fact that people exist, who are different from us, or make different choices than we do, makes us prone to go on the attack.

When I was breastfeeding, alone at home, in the presence of disapproving family members or in a public setting, I had no interest in forcing people to universally approve of what I was doing. I simply wanted to be left alone to get on with it. I was not hurting anyone else by choosing to breastfeed. I was doing what my research told me was best for my child.

I never confronted people who were bottlefeeding in public and criticized their decision and perhaps naively, I expected that basic level of respect in return. Minding one's own business is a dying art, but something that can make life a little better for all of us, I think.

When I was breastfeeding, alone at home, in the presence of disapproving family members or in a public setting, I had no interest in forcing people to universally approve of what I was doing. I simply wanted to be left alone to get on with it. I was not hurting anyone else by choosing to breastfeed. I was doing what my research told me was best for my child.

I never confronted people who were bottlefeeding in public and criticized their decision and perhaps naively, I expected that basic level of respect in return. Minding one's own business is a dying art, but something that can make life a little better for all of us, I think.

I agree completely, Sly_Lady. I'd love to have "Minding one's business is a dying art" on a bumpersticker :lol: . Whether it's a woman feeding her child, or kids who get a little rowdy in public, there seems always to be a person who makes it his/her business to criticize. I didn't care a fig how anyone else fed their kids; my niece's son was born at the same time as my son, and she chose to bottle feed so we'd sit side by side in her parents bedroom feeding our babies and gossiping. I also know for a fact one sister-in-law thinks breastfeediing is "icky" and not for her, but she never said one critical word to or about my decision. And that's the way it should be.

I plan on bare breast feeding in public where its practical. The first time I ever saw this done was when I worked at the zoo. The family was sitting on the outdoor patio. The whole lot of them, extended members included. The woman sat gracefully, child in arm, facing the walkway that was heavily trafficked and was laughing with her family. The kid looked sound asleep. At first I was startled because one does not expect to see a bare breast at a zoo cafeteria but then I saw the beauty in that sight. Perfectly natural, like another exhibit at the zoo, the "natural human family exhibit."

I made that decision that I would breastfeed my kids and not be "discreet" about it because it was perfectly within my rights not to be.

I have found that people find absolutely nothing wrong with throwing their manners out of the window once they find out you are with child. I don't mind my belly rubbed at all (I actually like it) but people ask you personal questions and scoff at your answers. Being a somewhat "sparky" personality, I tend to throw it right back in their faces with remarks like "well fortunately, in regards to this child, it doesn't really matter what you think now does it? I thank you for your input however unwelcome it was." I have left several speechless with this sort of remark. You ask me what I am doing, I answer, it does not give you permission to criticize or tell me I am wrong and flaunt your correctness.

Unfortunately for conservative America, they have nonconservative me to deal with including my very "European mentality" (to quote my relatives) in regards to nudity, which obviously includes my ideas on the functionality of the human body. The image of the breast has been perverted and while little old me singlehandedly reminding the world of its true purpose may not do a lot of good, it gives me a feeling of self fulfillment.

You should have seen my auntie's face when I mentioned how excited my husband and I are about the baby and how we are most excited about "family baths." You would have thought I told her the kid was going to be sent to live with wolves or something.:grumble:

While I sympathise very much with women who wanted to breastfeed but were unsuccessful, I do think that the majority of the problems they encountered could have been solved with qualified help.
Part of the problem may be that parents don't know who is qualified to help with that. When I had my oldest he flat out wouldn't nurse. After two days I felt I had to put him on the bottle. I still don't know what was wrong and I didn't have those issues with the other two. They were successfully breastfed. But I did everything the pediatric nurses told me to do. That is who I thought was the authority.

Would you mind re-posting the link you were talking about, Anabel?

Part of the problem may be that parents don't know who is qualified to help with that. When I had my oldest he flat out wouldn't nurse. After two days I felt I had to put him on the bottle. I still don't know what was wrong and I didn't have those issues with the other two. They were successfully breastfed. But I did everything the pediatric nurses told me to do. That is who I thought was the authority.

Would you mind re-posting the link you were talking about, Anabel? Sometimes it doesn't work. A new mother is in a difficult situation, with a tiny newborn, hormones going nuts and conflicting advice coming from all directions. If a mom wants to breastfeed, but is scared because the clock is ticking and she's afraid her baby will starve to death, it's tough. Considering the pressure a new mother is under, I hate to add guilt, or the feeling of not doing the best for her baby to the mix. We all want to do our best, I think.

Part of the problem may be that parents don't know who is qualified to help with that. When I had my oldest he flat out wouldn't nurse. After two days I felt I had to put him on the bottle. I still don't know what was wrong and I didn't have those issues with the other two. They were successfully breastfed. But I did everything the pediatric nurses told me to do. That is who I thought was the authority.



I had a very tough time feeding my son at the beginningand, as you say, didn't know who to turn to as an authority except that I found wonderful pediatricians. In the hospital, I found that the lactation consultant didn't have the time to spend with me (our problem was difficulty in latching on properly) although she did give me pointers. It probably would have been a good idea (although I didn't think of it at the time) to hire a lactation consultant to come to my home and work with me or, contact the local La Leche League for help. I wanted to give up in the beginning too, and I know how terrifying it is to think the baby is not getting fed. We all have to do what's best for our babies.

One thing I would change in the way we approach childbirth is that, in addition to the Lamaze programs most of us attend, there should be some kind of formal educational opportunity for learning about breastfeeding before the baby arrives so a new mother has an idea what to expect when the baby arrives.

One thing I would change in the way we approach childbirth is that, in addition to the Lamaze programs most of us attend, there should be some kind of formal educational opportunity for learning about breastfeeding before the baby arrives so a new mother has an idea what to expect when the baby arrives. That's such a good idea, Olwen. For a first time mom who hasn't been exposed to breastfeeding before, it can look intimidating. Before I learned how to do it, I was pretty scared, because I didn't know anyone who'd breastfed and I really doubted that it would work for me.

Part of the problem may be that parents don't know who is qualified to help with that. When I had my oldest he flat out wouldn't nurse. After two days I felt I had to put him on the bottle. I still don't know what was wrong and I didn't have those issues with the other two. They were successfully breastfed. But I did everything the pediatric nurses told me to do. That is who I thought was the authority.
A new mother is in a difficult situation, with a tiny newborn, hormones going nuts and conflicting advice coming from all directionsThis is the problem. As I said, I sympathise strongly with everyone who gave up breastfeeding against their will, and would like to see qualified breastfeeding help much more freely available, with all medical professionals educated about breastfeeding, and consistent policies at all hospitals and health centres. In the old days, mothers and grandmothers, aunts and sisters, filled this role. Nowadays the mothers and grandmothers may never have seen a child being breastfed and some even feel threatened by it - as if by making a different choice to them, you are criticising the way they raised their children.
That's such a good idea, Olwen. For a first time mom who hasn't been exposed to breastfeeding before, it can look intimidating. Before I learned how to do it, I was pretty scared, because I didn't know anyone who'd breastfed and I really doubted that it would work for me.
Wouldn't it be nice if all health centres had mother and baby mornings, where mums could share experiences and problems and pregnant women could come and observe breastfeeding in practice? Oh look - that's just what WHO suggest:The WHO and UNICEF recommend that the following Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding be implemented in every facility providing maternity services and care for newborn infants:

1. Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
2. Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
3. Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
4. Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within a half-hour of birth.
5. Show mothers how to breastfeed, and how to maintain lactation even if they should be separated from their infants.
6. Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, unless medically indicated.
7. Practice rooming-in: allow mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
8. Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
9. Give no artificial teats or pacifiers (also called dummies or soothers) to breastfeeding infants.
10. Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or clinic.

link (http://phs.os.dhhs.gov/ophs/BestPractice/MA_Boston.htm)Would you mind re-posting the link you were talking about, Anabel?It was only half a page up, but here it is again: http://www.nct.org.uk/breastfeeding/statistics.html

One thing I would change in the way we approach childbirth is that, in addition to the Lamaze programs most of us attend, there should be some kind of formal educational opportunity for learning about breastfeeding before the baby arrives so a new mother has an idea what to expect when the baby arrives.

The hospital where I had my kids offered such a class. In addition to "Childbirth" classes, we took "Breastfeeding for couples" (they also offered it for Mom only, but we thought my husband should learn what the heck the baby and I were supposed to be doing too!), Infant CPR, and a class on daily infant care (giving baths, etc). We also sent my inlaws to a "grandparenting" class to remind them that we were the parents, not them.... :lol: We went a little class-happy, I think, but we felt a lot more comfortable when that little person finally arrived. And my 1st and 3rd child were breastfed; my 2nd was low birth-weight with a poor suck, and never did figure out how to latch on, in spite of many sessions with several lactation specialists. (I pumped for 6 months before I finally truly gave up on it.)

(I pumped for 6 months before I finally truly gave up on it.)Then you still gave him the best possible start in life despite very difficult circumstances. Well done!

We went a little class-happy, I think, but we felt a lot more comfortable when that little person finally arrived.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I like those classes!

I plan on bare breast feeding in public where its practical. The first time I ever saw this done was when I worked at the zoo. The family was sitting on the outdoor patio. The whole lot of them, extended members included. The woman sat gracefully, child in arm, facing the walkway that was heavily trafficked and was laughing with her family. The kid looked sound asleep. At first I was startled because one does not expect to see a bare breast at a zoo cafeteria but then I saw the beauty in that sight. Perfectly natural, like another exhibit at the zoo, the "natural human family exhibit."

I made that decision that I would breastfeed my kids and not be "discreet" about it because it was perfectly within my rights not to be.

I have found that people find absolutely nothing wrong with throwing their manners out of the window once they find out you are with child. I don't mind my belly rubbed at all (I actually like it) but people ask you personal questions and scoff at your answers. Being a somewhat "sparky" personality, I tend to throw it right back in their faces with remarks like "well fortunately, in regards to this child, it doesn't really matter what you think now does it? I thank you for your input however unwelcome it was." I have left several speechless with this sort of remark. You ask me what I am doing, I answer, it does not give you permission to criticize or tell me I am wrong and flaunt your correctness.

Unfortunately for conservative America, they have nonconservative me to deal with including my very "European mentality" (to quote my relatives) in regards to nudity, which obviously includes my ideas on the functionality of the human body. The image of the breast has been perverted and while little old me singlehandedly reminding the world of its true purpose may not do a lot of good, it gives me a feeling of self fulfillment.

You should have seen my auntie's face when I mentioned how excited my husband and I are about the baby and how we are most excited about "family baths." You would have thought I told her the kid was going to be sent to live with wolves or something.
I think you are ahead of your time, or perhaps just on the wrong continent, but I very much enjoyed reading your post, and wish you luck! You may well succeed in converting people to a less prudish view of breastfeeding and child raising in general!

I plan on bare breast feeding in public where its practical. The first time I ever saw this done was when I worked at the zoo. The family was sitting on the outdoor patio. The whole lot of them, extended members included. The woman sat gracefully, child in arm, facing the walkway that was heavily trafficked and was laughing with her family. The kid looked sound asleep. At first I was startled because one does not expect to see a bare breast at a zoo cafeteria but then I saw the beauty in that sight. Perfectly natural, like another exhibit at the zoo, the "natural human family exhibit."

I made that decision that I would breastfeed my kids and not be "discreet" about it because it was perfectly within my rights not to be.

I have found that people find absolutely nothing wrong with throwing their manners out of the window once they find out you are with child. I don't mind my belly rubbed at all (I actually like it) but people ask you personal questions and scoff at your answers. Being a somewhat "sparky" personality, I tend to throw it right back in their faces with remarks like "well fortunately, in regards to this child, it doesn't really matter what you think now does it? I thank you for your input however unwelcome it was." I have left several speechless with this sort of remark. You ask me what I am doing, I answer, it does not give you permission to criticize or tell me I am wrong and flaunt your correctness.

Unfortunately for conservative America, they have nonconservative me to deal with including my very "European mentality" (to quote my relatives) in regards to nudity, which obviously includes my ideas on the functionality of the human body. The image of the breast has been perverted and while little old me singlehandedly reminding the world of its true purpose may not do a lot of good, it gives me a feeling of self fulfillment.

You should have seen my auntie's face when I mentioned how excited my husband and I are about the baby and how we are most excited about "family baths." You would have thought I told her the kid was going to be sent to live with wolves or something.:grumble:
I didn't see this until anabel copied it, because we flipped to a new page. You go, IC_Thestrals! You and your husband sound strong in your convictions, and I'd say your child is very lucky. When is the big event due to occur?

I plan on bare breast feeding in public where its practical. The first time I ever saw this done was when I worked at the zoo. The family was sitting on the outdoor patio. The whole lot of them, extended members included. The woman sat gracefully, child in arm, facing the walkway that was heavily trafficked and was laughing with her family. The kid looked sound asleep. ...

I made that decision that I would breastfeed my kids and not be "discreet" about it because it was perfectly within my rights not to be. ..

Unfortunately for conservative America, they have nonconservative me to deal with including my very "European mentality" (to quote my relatives) in regards to nudity, which obviously includes my ideas on the functionality of the human body. The image of the breast has been perverted and while little old me singlehandedly reminding the world of its true purpose may not do a lot of good, it gives me a feeling of self fulfillment.




That's a very gutsy move IC_Thjestrals, and I admire your resolve and your courage. Maybe you'll change a few prudish minds. Good for you!

Thanks guys for your support in my odd ball ways :D. The true test of Ross and I's convictions should begin sometime at the end of June or beginning of July when the little one comes screaming into the world. We just have very strong feelings in regards to the future of this tiny life and want to give him or her what we feel in our hearts is the best start possible even if it is unconventional, it is all fueled by a level love I never thought I could feel. How odd it is that one should fall madly in love with someone they have never met? That they sacrifice their bodies, their sanity, the nourishment from their breast and bodies, all that they knew about themselves as human beings at the feet of a helpless being whose future in this world is full of uncertainty. One of the hundreds of mysteries surrounding life in this world.

I don't know if its been mentioned but my in-laws (English and Scottish) insist that after I have this baby, I drink at least a half pint of Guinness a day to keep my milk supply up. I am also already taking fish oil for the benefits to a developing fetus but there are supposed to be very good things about taking it while breast feeding too. Only draw back to taking it while pregnant is the possibility of having a very large baby. While this is excellent for the baby, I am already expected to birth at least an 8 pounder (given my weight and my husband's) so the prospect of something larger when one is aiming for natural birth is slightly alarming. :)

I read somewhere about a woman who had a very hard time with her relatives regarding breastfeeding. It is a cultural thing. Here in the states, there was a huge wave of formula fed baby boomers. The development of the formula was modern and clean and sterile. To those who raised children in this time, breastfeeding was regarded as something people who couldn't afford formula did. It is going to take time to change this image.

I don't know if its been mentioned but my in-laws (English and Scottish) insist that after I have this baby, I drink at least a half pint of Guinness a day to keep my milk supply up. I am also already taking fish oil for the benefits to a developing fetus but there are supposed to be very good things about taking it while breast feeding too. Only draw back to taking it while pregnant is the possibility of having a very large baby. While this is excellent for the baby, I am already expected to birth at least an 8 pounder (given my weight and my husband's) so the prospect of something larger when one is aiming for natural birth is slightly alarming. :)



How funny this is! My mom was of English descent, and we've retained a lot of English customs. When I was breastfeeding she got brown Bock beer for me because she said the malt in it helped produce milk. I'll bet she got that from her own mother who breastfed her. Thank you for bringing back that memory, IC_Thestrals.

My son was 8lbs 80z at birth, and I'm 5' 2" and while I had an epidural because he took his sweet time coming, in the end he was delivered naturally. I was fortunate in that there were 4 doctorsa in the practice and one wanted me to have a c-section, but he was not on call the day my son was delivered and the doctor who was on call in the practice said he wanted to give me a chance to at least try to give birth without the C-section.

How funny this is! My mom was of English descent, and we've retained a lot of English customs. When I was breastfeeding she got brown Bock beer for me because she said the malt in it helped produce milk. I'll bet she got that from her own mother who breastfed her. Thank you for bringing back that memory, IC_Thestrals.

My son was 8lbs 80z at birth, and I'm 5' 2" and while I had an epidural because he took his sweet time coming, in the end he was delivered naturally. I was fortunate in that there were 4 doctorsa in the practice and one wanted me to have a c-section, but he was not on call the day my son was delivered and the doctor who was on call in the practice said he wanted to give me a chance to at least try to give birth without the C-section. I wasn't told to drink Guinness, but the midwives told me that a beer is good for lactation too.

The beer should be the unfiltered kind. It contains lots of proteins and minerals, particularly in the brewers yeast. it won't come through the milk, unless you're drinking huge quanitites of it. The relaxation of taking the time to sip a beer is probably useful for letting Mom gather herself.

I'm not sure about alcohol and breastfeeding. I avoided it altogether, because it does pass through to the milk, and while Guinness is traditionally recommended to nursing mums, they used give babies gin to help them sleep better too! I daresay one glass of Guinness a day wouldn't hurt, though (for the mum, not the baby!).

Of course, Guinness is pretty revolting stuff!:hmm:

I'm not sure about alcohol and breastfeeding. I avoided it altogether, because it does pass through to the milk, and while Guinness is traditionally recommended to nursing mums, they used give babies gin to help them sleep better too! I daresay one glass of Guinness a day wouldn't hurt, though (for the mum, not the baby!).

Of course, Guinness is pretty revolting stuff!:hmm: I drank an occasional beer while breastfeeding, and most fortunately my kids all turned out fairly okay. I love Guinness, so I could tell myself it was in the best interests of my milk supply to share one once in a while with my husband. :p

This is what La Leche says about drinking and breastfeeding.

http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html

My pediatrician also suggested that drinking a beer a day would help with let down. I'm not a big fan of beer so I never tried it.

IC_Thestrals - I wouldn't worry too much about a big baby. From what my OB told me, taking fish oil only increases the irth weight slightly (by a few oz). What you eat will have more of an effect on the baby's birth weight than takling fish oil tablets. I had a 10 1/2 pound, 24 inch baby, and he took the tunnel (instead of the skylight). I did have an epidural, and pushed him out in about 15 mins.

:wow: monster_mom - how??????? That's HUGE!!!!


At the moment, the biggest thing keeping me from thinking that maybe I'm ready to have a baby are the questions surrounding how to get the thing out ;) (I'm 5'2", my partner's 6'5". Realistically, we're also too young still - I'd like more career experience first (and to give my partner a chance to decide what he wants to do long-term). Plus I have health issues of my own which could cause problems... But I'd like to have one really, and squeezing it out is usually the point at which I start hiding and saying I've changed my mind when I've seen other peoples' babies and am getting broody and start discussing it ;))

I have found that people find absolutely nothing wrong with throwing their manners out of the window once they find out you are with child. I don't mind my belly rubbed at all (I actually like it) but people ask you personal questions and scoff at your answers. Being a somewhat "sparky" personality, I tend to throw it right back in their faces with remarks like "well fortunately, in regards to this child, it doesn't really matter what you think now does it? I thank you for your input however unwelcome it was." I have left several speechless with this sort of remark. You ask me what I am doing, I answer, it does not give you permission to criticize or tell me I am wrong and flaunt your correctness.

Unfortunately for conservative America, they have nonconservative me to deal with including my very "European mentality" (to quote my relatives) in regards to nudity, which obviously includes my ideas on the functionality of the human body. The image of the breast has been perverted and while little old me singlehandedly reminding the world of its true purpose may not do a lot of good, it gives me a feeling of self fulfillment.

You should have seen my auntie's face when I mentioned how excited my husband and I are about the baby and how we are most excited about "family baths." You would have thought I told her the kid was going to be sent to live with wolves or something.

LOL!! this is so true! Once you become pregnant people feel safe to offer you all sorts of advice and tell you what they think about your decisions. It continues, which sucks but you just have to let it roll off. I used to get really offended about that sort of thing with my first, I actually flipped out at a lady at the store for coming up and rubbing my belly. I am way more relaxed this time around and that sort of thingdoesn't bother me as much but I definitely sympathize with you.

As far as "family baths" I know alot of people who have done this. I don't think its weird and if people give you **** for it, oh well its totally not their decision. Its the same with nursing people throw in their opinions about why they do or do not like it, but it really doesn't matter at all. As long as you are comfortable with it than thats all that matters. At the end of the day its your kid. Bravo to you!!

I don't know if its been mentioned but my in-laws (English and Scottish) insist that after I have this baby, I drink at least a half pint of Guinness a day to keep my milk supply up. I am also already taking fish oil for the benefits to a developing fetus but there are supposed to be very good things about taking it while breast feeding too. Only draw back to taking it while pregnant is the possibility of having a very large baby. While this is excellent for the baby, I am already expected to birth at least an 8 pounder (given my weight and my husband's) so the prospect of something larger when one is aiming for natural birth is slightly alarming.

I wouldn't worry about birthing a huge baby. My mom had an 11 pounder naturally, no drugs. My sister (she was the 11 lb baby) just a a home birth and her baby was 9 lbs and like 22 inches or something. No matter what the size, my mom said it felt the same (she gave birth naturally to 5 girls ranging from 6 lbs to 11) My first son was 8 lbs even and 21 inches long but luckily I felt nothing (I had the epidural) and now that I am very pregnant with my second son the doctor thinks he is so big he will come early (fat chance) so he is guessing he will be at least 10 lbs by my due date and gain a pound every week I am overdue. Lucky me :)

As for drinking, my doctors told me one beer or one glass of wine was fine but anything more (and you can drink more) you need to pump it out for the next 2 feedings. So if you decided to go out and have a few drinks with friends or whatever, make sure to pump at least 3 bottles of milk just to be sure. It takes planning but most everything does once they arrive!

At the moment, the biggest thing keeping me from thinking that maybe I'm ready to have a baby are the questions surrounding how to get the thing out (I'm 5'2", my partner's 6'5". Realistically, we're also too young still - I'd like more career experience first (and to give my partner a chance to decide what he wants to do long-term). Plus I have health issues of my own which could cause problems... But I'd like to have one really, and squeezing it out is usually the point at which I start hiding and saying I've changed my mind when I've seen other peoples' babies and am getting broody and start discussing it )

Miri, you make me laugh :) Its not so bad. I now it seems scary, before I had my first I was terrified, as natural as the process is it is pretty intimidating. Like I have said I had an epidural, but really from all the people I have talked to no one has said it was really insanely difficult. You make it work and then you get to marvel on how the heck you DID get that baby out. Just stay away from watching the tv shows that show women in labor and delivery (although for some reason when you get pregnant you become strangely addicted to these shows) because the women on some of them will really make you worry. I remember watching wide eyed and asking my mom if it was really like that, and she was all no, not really, well sometimes. It didn't make me feel better, but my experience was nothing like I saw on tv at all. SO you might jsut surprise yourself :)

monster_mom All I can say is my hat is off to you. A woman had a 13 pound boy, no anesthesia, at the same time we were in hospital. He was the cutest thing; he was so big he looked like a 3 month old baby. When she checked out, hard though the rest of us tried to be subtle about it, we lined up at our doors to have a look.

Thanks for posting that link; although I won't be having any more children, it's interesting to read the literature. My doctors allowed one glass of wine or beer whil I was pregnant, but I never indulged, except for a glass of champagne on New Year's Day.
I suppose the brown beer is an old wives tale, but my baby was especially colicky for 4 months and having a glass of beer did relax me and seemed to help let down. I never felt the urge to have more because I worried about alcohol in my milk and also it'd make me too sleepy.

Miri: We all ask ourselves the same questions as you are asking yourself now, and the next thing you know you're body has done this miraculous thing and given birth to another human being. Whether by tunnel or skylight (that's really funny, lol) matters not. At the end of day it is an awe inspiring moment.

LBuccalo, when is your baby due? I agree - skip the TV shows with any pregnant women or labor. Everyone is different.

Realistically, it's something we won't be ready to discuss seriously for about 5 years still - but it is good to know that it's not as horrific as media makes out... A good friend's sister has just had her first (well, he's 2 months old now, and a big strapping lad who's grown out of his 3-6 month clothing - he was an 11 pounder, I think) and she had an hour and a half of stitching after that...

Incidentally, I first saw the youngster and mother when he was 2 weeks old, and I was seriously impressed by how svelte his mummy was looking - she had a slight tummy, but you wouldn't have known she'd given birth so recently! When I saw them last, I think she was back, or virtually back, to her pre-pregnancy size. She breastfeeds him (and I think does yoga - I'm fairly certain my friend said she did it pre-birth).

Funny enough I am not nearly as worried about the labor as I am about the prospect of the care right afterwards. I would not let anyone save my husband take the kid away but it must be something to run the birth marathon and breast feed right afterward. I suppose the good thing is I read in some of my books that its perfectly natural for some babies not to eat again for up to 48 hours after the first feed because of the richness of the colostrum. My luck the kid will demand food every hour on the hour until he/she is taking solids but I suppose eating is important enough for my husband and I to role with it. :D

Funny enough I am not nearly as worried about the labor as I am about the prospect of the care right afterwards. I would not let anyone save my husband take the kid away but it must be something to run the birth marathon and breast feed right afterward. I suppose the good thing is I read in some of my books that its perfectly natural for some babies not to eat again for up to 48 hours after the first feed because of the richness of the colostrum. My luck the kid will demand food every hour on the hour until he/she is taking solids but I suppose eating is important enough for my husband and I to role with it. :D I found myself shockingly alert for hours and hours each time after giving birth, so I was happy to mess around with the babies and see if they wanted to try feeding. Some do, some don't. I just loved staring at the little creatures and touching them. They're so small and MIRACULOUS right after they're born.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?I would, but definitely not for that long. I very much agree that kids should be weaned off and that it's impractical to breastfeed forever, but I also think that it's good for the child and has nutritional value
2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?If it's the mother's choice, then they can do what they want. I do think it's limiting to the mother's freedom to have to continue to breastfeed.
3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?I have no idea...I'm not planning on having children in the future, so I really haven't read anything about it. I definitely think kids should be weaned well before they go to school, which is around 3. They should definitely be able to survive on solid foods after about a year or a year and a half, so why not do it then?
4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?If people were built to need breast milk for that long, then life really wouldn't work the way it does for children who don't breastfeed for very long. So I think it's a comfort issue, or maybe separation anxiety.
5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?Sure. There are definitely places it's more appropriate than others, but I have no problem with it. I think it's kind of cute that the mother and child are so close.5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?I have no idea. Maybe some people find it indecent that someone's breast could be revealed in public, but frankly, brestfeeding isn't the same as stripping or something like that.
6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?I've never actually seen a "feeding room" - maybe that's a British thing? I don't really think people should be ushered off to feed their children (especially if it's in the middle of a dinner or something), but I also don't have a problem with doing it in the bathroom. In places like hotels and nicer restraunts, there are usually chairs to sit in, and that's fine, for me.

LBuccalo, when is your baby due? I agree - skip the TV shows with any pregnant women or labor. Everyone is different.

March 18th which ironically is a week before my first son's 4th birthday. We conceived on the same day 4 years apart, freaky isn't it? Such is the life of a military family lol.

Funny enough I am not nearly as worried about the labor as I am about the prospect of the care right afterwards. I would not let anyone save my husband take the kid away but it must be something to run the birth marathon and breast feed right afterward. I suppose the good thing is I read in some of my books that its perfectly natural for some babies not to eat again for up to 48 hours after the first feed because of the richness of the colostrum. My luck the kid will demand food every hour on the hour until he/she is taking solids but I suppose eating is important enough for my husband and I to role with it.

It really isn't so bad, at least right after birth. I mean you are really tired and all but you can't sleep you just want to see the baby. Also milk doesn't come in right away and the baby doesn't really start getting super hungry until then. You will still nurse after the baby is born but its not quite as demanding. I felt my son was the most demanding when I was feeling the effects of nursing the most. I didn't want anyone to give him formula and sometimes I would cry before I nursed him because it hurt so much, my mom would always say well let me give him a bottle if you hurt and I was all no mom I don't want him to have formula I jsut don't want him to eat right now. It is painful (very very painful) but if you can push through the first month it doesn't hurt after that. It took me about a month and half to really start to feel the effects of sleep deprivation, I guess that is when the novelty of having a newborn wore off lol.

My son snacked all the time. It was so hard because he was literally eating all the time but not really eating just kinda playing. I wish I had put him on a schedule. I read a really good book after my son was born but by that time I had already trained him and he was hard to break. I ended up finding a pacifier for him (though it was hard he only took one kind) and that helped him get through the times he just wanted to suck. If you are interested the book is called The Baby Whisperer and it is awesome, not as harsh as Babywise but still has a good routine in there. Although read it before the baby gets there because it has really good information on what to do from the time the baby is born.

I don't know if it is the hormones or the adrenaline or what, but I was hyper after having both of my kids as well - even the 10 pounder! I heard the same things about babies not wanting to eat for a bit afterwards and being quiet for about 48 hours afterwards. Not mine! They were both HUNGRY!!! And they both really liked thier doo doo's. I had the WORST carpal tunnel with my 2nd - we actually started referring to one of my hands as the claw!. Because of the tearing they left the epidural in for a while after my 2nd was born so I couldn't move from the wasit down and I couldn't use my hands to pull my body upright becasue of the carpal tunnel! Talk about helpless!!! I can remember flopping around like a fish trying to get to my 2nd when he wanted to be fed. I finally called the nurse. She handed him to me and then cam back a bit later and burped him, changed his diaper and tucked him into his basinet. I LOVED HER!

IC_Thestrals - Just remember to have someone bring you something to eat and drink! The cafeteria is only open certain hours and if the little darling makes his/her appearance when they are closed you'll be lucky to get graham crackers. And hospital food stinks. I made my in laws go out and get me a turkey club with mayo and tomato on sourdough, chicken soup, a potatoe knish, and a lemon tart from a deli about 1/2 hour away. There were other deli's closer but I did not want a club from them - I wanted it from Tower deli. I have no clue why - I've only been to Tower deli one time in my life and I had a French Dip. Oh - and that was the BEST turkey club I have EVER eaten in my entire life.

Remind us when we get closer to your due date - I'd bet we have LOTS of advice to give you from Mom's who have been around the block a few times.

IC_Thestrals - Just remember to have someone bring you something to eat and drink! The cafeteria is only open certain hours and if the little darling makes his/her appearance when they are closed you'll be lucky to get graham crackers. And hospital food stinks. I made my in laws go out and get me a turkey club with mayo and tomato on sourdough, chicken soup, a potatoe knish, and a lemon tart from a deli about 1/2 hour away. There were other deli's closer but I did not want a club from them - I wanted it from Tower deli. I have no clue why - I've only been to Tower deli one time in my life and I had a French Dip. Oh - and that was the BEST turkey club I have EVER eaten in my entire life.

Remind us when we get closer to your due date - I'd bet we have LOTS of advice to give you from Mom's who have been around the block a few times.Excellent suggestion about the food, monster_mom! The nice thing about the birthing center is that they had a kitchen facility for patients, so we packed a cooler and brought my favorite foods along. My husband could heat things up, I had snacks when I wanted them. Always, within a couple of hours after giving birth, I was still wide awake and ravenous! :drool:

This is a plea on behalf of the husbands - encourage them to get a nap when things are moving slowly, so that they can have enough energy to do stuff when you need them. Especially the first delivery is usually lengthy, and the husbands don;t get all that adrenaline and other hormones to make them so perky during childbirth. You will both be much happier if you allow for the different circumstances.

Congrats on your pregnancy IC_Thestrals!!

I haven't been here in a while (since before my son was born) so I thought I'd peek in on the discussion. I am completely pro-breastfeeding but I had to put my son on formula. He has a short frenullum (called "tongue-tie") and a high palate, so breastfeeding was beyond painful. I actually had blisters forming on my nipples. Not only that, because of his condition he had to suck quite hard to get milk, which caused serious engorgement. It was also extremely painful and caused me to have problems with my blood pressure while I was still in the hospital (I had an emergency C-section).

The lactation consultant at my hospital was very aggressive and not very understanding of my situation. At one point I asked that the nurses give Ethan a bit of formula so I could get some sleep (because he had to suck so hard, we were both crying and really stressed out). The lactation consultant found out and said, "No, no, no! Absolutely not!" My hormones were so out of whack that I sat there and cried my eyes out in front of her -- any other time I would have given her the tongue-lashing of her life. My husband went down to the nursery and wreaked havoc over her on my behalf. Anyway, she recommended silicone nipple shields, which I actually used for Ethan's first month. I got mastitis and decided to call it quits.

All this is to say that I didn't realize just how complicated breastfeeding can be. It's not this way for everyone -- obviously if Ethan's mouth structure had been different things would've been much different -- but things like this can come up. I'm glad I was able to at least breastfeed him for the first month so he could have the best start possible.

It's true that there was a surge of bottlefed baby boomers in the US -- that makes it difficult for young people who need support and whose family members only bottlefed. Better education about breastfeeding is needed!

Since this topic has been stretched almost to the breaking point, earlier I asked IC_Thestrals if she thought there's enough demand for a pregnancy and childbirth thread. We seem to have a few moms with interesting stories here at breastfeeding. I started a thread in The Leaky Cauldron called the Birthing Center, to chat about the pregnancy and birth process. Once women start talking about having babies, we can go on and on, so come chat about it if you're in the mood. :welcome:

Sorry about your difficulty Amaryllis, but you gave your son a really good start and it sounds like it was tough going for you. In the end we all do what is best for our babies and ourselves. And yeah, it's hard to deal with people when your hormones are running wild; I had a roommate in hospital who had visitors all day and night and her TV was still on at 2AM so I had no rest. If I hadn't been so wound up after the delivery, I would have told her off and the nurses who allowed it to go on.

I never realized how hungry a person gets after delivery - that's something they didn't mention in Lamaze. Had I known, I would have had a deli sandwich waiting too and some hot tea. The nurses scrounged up a cold egg salad sandwich and it was heavenly!

EDITED TO ADD: What a great idea. Thank you Sly_Lady :)

During my first son's first year, I had so many problems getting a steady milk supply die to supplementation, and I asked my mom (a lactation consultant and nurse on the Mother/Baby unit) for some ways to increase it naturally. The "beer at night" suggestion was one that I tried, despite the fact that I don't generally drink. It worked. Another thing that worked recently for me (our third child) was green tea -- :relax: I found this out when I had a sore throat and got some for that (iced) and I couldn't believe how much my milk let down -- again, this is purely anecdotal and I have no clue why.

This is a plea on behalf of the husbands - encourage them to get a nap when things are moving slowly, so that they can have enough energy to do stuff when you need them. Especially the first delivery is usually lengthy, and the husbands don;t get all that adrenaline and other hormones to make them so perky during childbirth. You will both be much happier if you allow for the different circumstances.


Good call, I made my husband sleep with our first child. I also told him not to tlak to me at all unless he was going to say wow honey you are amazing. I alctually wrote a list of things that were ok for him to say and told him if I started to get cranky to just stop talking all together. My parents were in the room through out the entire labor and delivery and my dad kept saying things that he thought were helpful (just breathe, focus on relaxing, well if you do it that way its gonna hurt more) until I finally freaked out and shouted What the h*** so you know about this? You have never felt this. Which made my husbands eyebrows shoot up and he said later he thanked God that I had told him what to say and do during labor and delivery because I looked evil when I screamed at my dad. Ha ha. Unfortunately he won't be here for the birth of our second (I was really hoping he'd change that first poop :)) but thats alright I hopefully will have someone else stay with me to do that job. If possible get your husband to change the meconium poop, it is so nasty, I claimed I was too tired and sore to help and really they can't argue with that. Seems mean but in the long run, they deserve to do some nasty work since you just popped that sucker out :)

All this is to say that I didn't realize just how complicated breastfeeding can be. It's not this way for everyone -- obviously if Ethan's mouth structure had been different things would've been much different -- but things like this can come up. I'm glad I was able to at least breastfeed him for the first month so he could have the best start possible.

That is so true. People think of breastfeeding as something that will come naturally to women, and sometimes that is just not the case. I took a class on it before my first son was born and I was so overwhelmed by all they tell you. Wow, for something that seems so easy, it isn't. I was shocked by the fact that when I had my son, I was the first of my 5 sisters to have a baby and so the only person I had to rely on for info on breastfeeding was my mom and she had forgotton some of the important details being that she hadn't nursed in 18 years. I had to go through everything on my own without a source of useful information, by useful I mean all the details, the good bad and ugly. Breastfeeding hurts. It really does until your nipples get tough enough, but that can take awhile. Also the let down kinda hurt at first, at least I thought so. The more prepared you are and the more knowledge you have of every aspect the easier it will be for you. I can remember having cracked and bleeding nipples and cringing with every movement. Also when your milk comes in you get huge porn star boobs, and they feel like boulders. Yowsa! Its all worth it, I mean the pain doesn't last THAT long, about a month, but let me tell you it can be a long month :)

originally posted by Olwen:I had a roommate in hospital who had visitors all day and night and her TV was still on at 2AM so I had no rest. If I hadn't been so wound up after the delivery, I would have told her off and the nurses who allowed it to go on.

I never had roommates after my deliveries, and for all 3, I made it well-known beforehand that I wanted no phone calls or visitors during labor, and afterwards, I limited the visitors to a very, very short list.

I never realized how hungry a person gets after delivery - that's something they didn't mention in Lamaze. Had I known, I would have had a deli sandwich waiting too and some hot tea. The nurses scrounged up a cold egg salad sandwich and it was heavenly!

My Mom makes the best cookies -- chewy oatmeal raisin cookies with molasses that we have dubbed "Labor Cookies", because they are easy on the tummy, help things move along afterwards (we know how much fun that first trip to the bathroom can be after delivery!), and they are So Awesome when you are voraciously hungry afterwards. She bakes a few dozen for me to take to the hospital areound my due date, and then brings some more when she visits.

This is a plea on behalf of the husbands - encourage them to get a nap when things are moving slowly, so that they can have enough energy to do stuff when you need them. Especially the first delivery is usually lengthy, and the husbands don;t get all that adrenaline and other hormones to make them so perky during childbirth. You will both be much happier if you allow for the different circumstances.

Don't take this too far though and actually send him home. I tried to do that when my 2nd was born. We were inducing because I was pre-eclamptic (high BP), but the baby hadn't even dropped, so they were saying the induction would take at least two days. They started it around 11pm one night; my husband went home to wait at the house with our 2 year old for my parents to get there (allowing the neighbor to go home). I told him to just stay home for the night and get a good night's sleep because they weren't even going to start the Pitocin (to trigger contractions) til the next night at the earliest. He insisted on coming back, for fear that he would get stuck in rush hour traffic in the morning. Good thing, too, because I woke up at 4am with contractions and she was born 16 minutes later. If he'd listened to me, he'd have missed it. :lol:

Don't take this too far though and actually send him home. I tried to do that when my 2nd was born. We were inducing because I was pre-eclamptic (high BP), but the baby hadn't even dropped, so they were saying the induction would take at least two days. They started it around 11pm one night; my husband went home to wait at the house with our 2 year old for my parents to get there (allowing the neighbor to go home). I told him to just stay home for the night and get a good night's sleep because they weren't even going to start the Pitocin (to trigger contractions) til the next night at the earliest. He insisted on coming back, for fear that he would get stuck in rush hour traffic in the morning. Good thing, too, because I woke up at 4am with contractions and she was born 16 minutes later. If he'd listened to me, he'd have missed it. :lol:
Well, I really was thinking first of cases where the woman is actually in labor, and second of the hubbies taking a snooze on the couch or wherever else is available. Sometimes kids will surprise us nonetheless: for our third, contractions had barely gotten going and I hadn't eaten in quite a while, so I went down to the in-hospital McDonald's and ordered a burger - before I could even pay for it, I was being paged and I ran down to the maternity ward to find the obstetrician trying to pull on gonw and gloves as the baby was coming. He yelled at my wife 'Don't push!' - I sure am glad that I have enough sense not to say something like that to a woman with contractions every ten seconds and a baby crowning. :no:

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I definitely intend to

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
I don't think it is a matter of fairness. If a mother is breastfeeding, it is up to her the length of time. I'm not meaning that all mothers breastfeed for the right amount of time, but I would hope they are doing what is best for their child and I respect their decision, whether I agree with it or not.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
I think that is depending on the child

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
There is no doubt that breast milk is better for the child, but do older children need it? I don't really think so. I think there is a point where it is more of a comfort thing, like a pacifier or sucking the thumb.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Of course

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
People are completely uncomfortable with nudity in our society, because it has been associated with sexuality. I think it is quite silly that people can't even feed their child in public without causing a stir.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I think that those places are being ignorant of the needs of breastfeeding mothers... but with saying that, many places can't accomodate everyone all of the time. As with anyone with some circumstance that is not accomodated for, the breastfeeding mothers must adapt and move on.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I breast feed my daughter for one year and two weeks. Six months exclusively.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
It's up to the mother and the child. My daughter gradually weaned herself from about nine months - as many children do.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
My daughter let me know when she had had enough - she just wasn't interested anymore which was a bit sad for me! My sister's little one on the other hand showed no sign of weaning herself at 16 months and my sister decided to wean her gradually.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
If a child has a good diet then after about a year they don't need breast milk.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Of course - what could be more natural? In fact I think people would be more shocked if someone bottle fed a baby in public in our town!

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
Because they are old and stupid.

Q6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I wouldn't go there! If they are not prepared to offer proper facilities, I wouldn't be prepared to spend my money there. We have fantastic facilities in our town

Whilst I think that breastfeeding is the biological norm, I recognise that some mothers have a terrible time and have no option but to formula feed. Amarylis you did all you should - having a baby should be enjoyable, not painful and stressful. You gave it your best shot and should have been treated more sympathetically by the lactation consultant. Don't feel guilty - people seem to want to make us mothers feel guilty about everything!

Well, I really was thinking first of cases where the woman is actually in labor, and second of the hubbies taking a snooze on the couch or wherever else is available. Sometimes kids will surprise us nonetheless: for our third, contractions had barely gotten going and I hadn't eaten in quite a while, so I went down to the in-hospital McDonald's and ordered a burger - before I could even pay for it, I was being paged and I ran down to the maternity ward to find the obstetrician trying to pull on gonw and gloves as the baby was coming. He yelled at my wife 'Don't push!' - I sure am glad that I have enough sense not to say something like that to a woman with contractions every ten seconds and a baby crowning. :no:

I was induced with both of my guys and it took FOREVER, especially with the first. I was in labor for three days (the first day was just tryignto get things started, the 2nd was pitocin but with real slow dialation so they sent me home only to have me go into labor a few hours later). I think my hubby took a nap during the 2nd day and by the 3rd we were so fried I can't remember.

I was a good little (OK, not so little) wife and made my hubby several sandwiches and packed some nice, healthy snacks. He sat there and ate them in front of me. All I was allowed to eat was popsicles (we picked them up on the way to the hospital and kept them in the nurses freezer). I actually threw a pillow at him when he started in on the second sandwich.

That is so true. People think of breastfeeding as something that will come naturally to women, and sometimes that is just not the case.

So true! And, I am told, learning to breastfeed second and later children can be almost as difficult as the first, since it is not just about the mother learning some facts and techniques, but both of you figuring each other out.

On the plus side, it could turn out to be quite easy. For me, after the first week, it went very smoothly with my first. I had actually planned not to breastfeed, but thought I would give it a try for the first six weeks. I really liked it. Of courswe it is supposed to be best for the baby, but it is actually very convenient in some ways. Yes, you can't get away from the baby for too long, which can be a drag, but on the other hand if you want to get out and about with your baby, you're not stuck bringing along formula and finding ways to heat it on the go.

Of courswe it is supposed to be best for the baby, but it is actually very convenient in some ways. Yes, you can't get away from the baby for too long, which can be a drag, but on the other hand if you want to get out and about with your baby, you're not stuck bringing along formula and finding ways to heat it on the go.

I had a hard time at first, but I really loved the convenience of not having to pack anything except diapers & a spare set of clothes for a trip to my mom's. One thing I hope has been improved in the past 15 years is the nursing bras. The only ones available after my son's birth looked like large white bandaids, not a good look when you're trying to get back into pre-pregnancy shape, lol.

I was a good little (OK, not so little) wife and made my hubby several sandwiches and packed some nice, healthy snacks. He sat there and ate them in front of me. All I was allowed to eat was popsicles (we picked them up on the way to the hospital and kept them in the nurses freezer). I actually threw a pillow at him when he started in on the second sandwich.You ought to be allowed to eat if you want to but not everyone does. I had long labours too, and the midwives insisted I ate a hot dinner each time, even though I said I wasn't hungry. Both times the dinner came straight up again. Your body has other things to do than digest food!

Apparently one of the reasons that you're supposed to leave your desk and sit down somewhere else to eat lunch during your working day is that when you're stressed (or working under pressure), your blood flow and energy are concentrated towards the 'fight-or-flight centre' of your brain (the amygdala, I think, but it's a while since I finished Uni now!), your heart, etc., and away from the non-urgent, secondary things such as your digestive system.

Could contribute to not being able to keep down food during a prolonged labour (of course, with the whole contractions, distractions, strange environment, etc., I suspect that people may not need an additional reason!)...

I've never heard of food prolonging labor. I just know it's impossible to keep anything down but ice chips, which is why that's all they offer you. I'm no expert, of course; that's just what I learned both from classes and experience (because I stubbornly tried to cheat).
And Olwen, I love nursing bras. I can't imagine how people go through that time without them. As far as I'm concerned, they're not optional, and if I knew of anyone who questioned that, I'd probably go out and get them one myself!

You can keep other stuff down, once you are in hard labour most women don't WANT to eat, which is a completely different story - if you want something then eat something. Obviously if you stuff yourself full of fish, chip and mushy peas when you are 8cm yes odds are you'll bring it back up. (Plenty of women also vomit with nothing to eat), but expecting your body to run a marathon without fuel (pretty much what you expect it to do if you can't eat)

Toast and jam is good (sugar boost to give you energy, unlikely to make you feel sick as it's not too heavy and won't overload your stomach), sandwich, drink lucozade

The reason for some places not allowing you to eat is IN CASE you end up need a general anesthetic, due to the risk of mendelssohn syndrome, if you vomited while unconscious and inhaled the vomit.

Soft, sports bras are good too. You just lift them up when you need to - very comfy and no fiddly clasps.

Helpful hint: when choosing nursing bras, make sure you can do up the clasp one handed! Then practise doing up the clasp one-handed without a baby ...

You can keep other stuff down, once you are in hard labour most women don't WANT to eat, which is a completely different story - if you want something then eat something. Obviously if you stuff yourself full of fish, chip and mushy peas when you are 8cm yes odds are you'll bring it back up. (Plenty of women also vomit with nothing to eat), but expecting your body to run a marathon without fuel (pretty much what you expect it to do if you can't eat)I was talking about the long early stages of labour. I can't imagine anyone eating in the final stages! http://www.cosforums.com/images/smilies/yup.gif

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I did, and I intend to again if or when I have another.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
I think that many mothers who breatfeed for extended periods of time do not do so unwillingly, and it is their choice to stop sooner. I also think that fairness to the mother isn't really an issue, as the child did not ask to be born but rather the mother "asked" for the child. I think a child's best interest must come first.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
As previously stated, when both the mother and child are ready. For some children this is very early because they no longer want to be breastfed and would prefer to try and eat table food. For others, it may not come naturally at all.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
I think that in some cases, children do need it, but it also depends on the age of the child. Some children are lactose-intolerant and cannot drink milk other than their mother's. Something else that must be taken into account is how well off a family is...because for some, food is hard to come by. If you look at some poor countries, children are breastfed for a long time after the western "norm" because there isn't much to eat, and they can at least get some through the mother.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Yes, I do.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
I think many people find it to be taboo, and others think it is something to be looked down upon because for them it might seem unmodest to be willing to do such a thing in public. I know a woman from church who is breatfeeding her child, and have had discussions with other members in regard to her breastfeeding in the patio during lunch. Many of them think it should be done "behind closed doors".

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I think it depends on the quality of the toilets; if the restroom has a sitting area to accomodate this, then that is fine with me (where I live they usually have a baby changing table in that room, as well). If, however, they expect me to actually sit on a toilet to feed my child, then I would most likely complain to the managment or possibly take it further.

And Olwen, I love nursing bras. I can't imagine how people go through that time without them. As far as I'm concerned, they're not optional, and if I knew of anyone who questioned that, I'd probably go out and get them one myself!

I didn't have a problem with nursing bras - just the way they looked back in the day when my son was born. The manufacturers didn't even try to make them slightly attractive which made me feel even dumpier wearing them, lol. Mine looked like some thing my granny would have worn. I had post-partum blues and I could have used the boost of something attractive to wear. I'll bet todays are 100% better and, of course, one can wear a sports bra.

I didn't have a problem with nursing bras - just the way they looked back in the day when my son was born. The manufacturers didn't even try to make them slightly attractive which made me feel even dumpier wearing them, lol. Mine looked like some thing my granny would have worn. I had post-partum blues and I could have used the boost of something attractive to wear. I'll bet todays are 100% better and, of course, one can wear a sports bra.
Sports bras wouldn't work because they're so constricting. They recommend sports bras, along with binding, to people who don't want their milk. Besides, they don't have those cool little easy-to-snap flaps. :)

Sports bras wouldn't work because they're so constricting. They recommend sports bras, along with binding, to people who don't want their milk. Besides, they don't have those cool little easy-to-snap flaps. :)


Actually, they have sports nursing bras nowadays. I had a couple. The front panels crossed over one another to form the front of the bra, but they could be shoved over towards the armpit expose either of the breasts for feeding. They are a tad looser than the 'normal' ones, naturally.

So true! And, I am told, learning to breastfeed second and later children can be almost as difficult as the first, since it is not just about the mother learning some facts and techniques, but both of you figuring each other out.


I would agree with this. The only thing that made breastfeeding easier with my later kids than with my first was my own self-confidence at the beginning. I knew I could do it (I'd nursed my first for a year!), and I knew that I couldn't break the baby by holding him wrong....

Sports bras wouldn't work because they're so constricting. They recommend sports bras, along with binding, to people who don't want their milk. Besides, they don't have those cool little easy-to-snap flaps. You have to wear soft, generously sized ones, that don't constrict, obviously. Some of them are comfy enough to wear at night, too.

And be careful about the ones wit the underwire - I can't tell you haw many bouts of mastitis I had before I figured out it was the underwire that was causing pressue right on top of the duct!

And Olwen, I love nursing bras. I can't imagine how people go through that time without them. As far as I'm concerned, they're not optional, and if I knew of anyone who questioned that, I'd probably go out and get them one myself!

I used them at first, but I hated them. I went back to normal underwire bras within a week. I had to go get new sizes but it was worth it. The nursing bras were not very convenient for me.

I had two nursing bras while I nursed and I really liked them :). They were supportive and the latches were easy to unsnap with one hand. Had I nursed longer, I would've needed to buy more however -- I leaked so much (even with nursing pads) that I was constantly washing my bras and they were starting to get stretched out (not to mention the stretching from engorgement).

If you breastfeed for a long time, you might need to buy some new nursing bras in smaller sizes. Older kids don't need as much milk, so you get smaller again.

If you are anything like me, you will probably want to find a more supportive bra than the ones you wore before you had kids. Maybe it was the breastfeeding, maybe it's my age, or maybe it is an undocumented aftereffect of having kids, but for me, after having children, I now understand the meaning of sag!:p

If you are anything like me, you will probably want to find a more supportive bra than the ones you wore before you had kids. Maybe it was the breastfeeding, maybe it's my age, or maybe it is an undocumented aftereffect of having kids, but for me, after having children, I now understand the meaning of sag!

They do say that you sag due to the changes in your breast during pregnancy and the initial engorgement (whether you breastfeed or not) rather than because of breastfeeding itself. But I think it's just basically down to gravity and weight change.

However, in African countries, where the women carry their babies in slings, sagging is seen as a very positive thing, since it makes it easier for the child to feed while the mother carries on working!

See - I knew the whole thing about keeping the girls upright was wrong! I'd fit in just fine in Africa!:p

I now understand the meaning of sag!

I am with you here and I am only 23, I have to keep on top on my chest excercises because if I stop the girls start going down :) I chalk it up to things my mom never warned me about regarding pregnancy and breastfeeding. Of course she claims she did tell me or that she expected me to at least know. Sure mom.

Yes I did breastfeed my son until he was 2 1/2. Obviously I didn't do it as much at that point since he was eating solid food. Be realistic. By the age of 3 months most babies sleep through the night, so nightime feedings are reduced to a bedtime feeding after that.

There are plenty of good books these days telling you how to breastfeed without too much disruption to your normal lifestyle. You can always use a breastpump if you have to be away from your baby at feeding time.

As to whether it's fair to the mother, don't knock it til you've tried it. It sure beats messing with formula and bottles. Besides, as the baby grows, you gradually taper off the breastfeedings just as you would with a bottle.

Personally, I think it's unfair to the mother to make her go through all that rigamarole with formula and bottles when G-d gave us breasts that supply the perfect food for our babies that changes to suit their needs as they grow.

I'd say sometime between two to three years is a reasonable age to wean a child. Any breastfeeding past that age is a comfort thing. Don't be startled into weaning your baby prematurely just because he tries out his first tooth on you. If he's young enough that you would continue with a bottle, he's young enough to continue breastfeeding.

Our culture is very prudish regarding public display of the female breasts. However, women shouldn't have to hide out in toilets to breastfeed. One can usually find some secluded or semi secluded spot that's not a toilet to breastfeed; particularly if one wears a loose top or poncho that can hide the feeding baby from public view.

Past one year you probably won't run into that problem since your baby will be eating solid foods and breastfeedings become supplemental and are reduced in frequency anyway.

There are plenty of good books these days telling you how to breastfeed without too much disruption to your normal lifestyle. You can always use a breastpump if you have to be away from your baby at feeding time.I don't know if it's just me, but I didn't find pumping to be very convenient. I had to time the pumping just right -- I would usually try to do a little each time after my son nursed. If I did it any other time or tried to do a lot at once, I got super-engorged. Also, if I skipped even one feeding, I got super-engorged. I certainly didn't realize before I had my son that you had to be strategic to keep your milk supply just right.

The hassle I faced trying to breastfeed makes preparing formula seem like a gift straight from heaven. I'm hoping that I can exclusively breastfeed our next child -- we shall see.

I am so sad! I planned to nurse my second son exclusively and was all set to do it, and I started off really good and he was a pro, then I started bleeding. And I had to be hospitalized and have a D&C done and after that it was like all the stress I have been under the past month and a half came crashing down on me and my body stopped making milk. I was so upset. So now the baby is on formula and while he is happy I am still wishing I could have nursed him longer. Oh well. At least he is happy right?

So sorry to hear that - any chance of re-establishing the flow. Maybe a breast pump would help, and if he only gets your milk by bottle, he's still getting that extra goodness.

[fieldset=Thread Rules]The Questions:

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?

My answers:
1) Given I am a male, I cannot answer the question.
2) Sure, I think it's fair to breastfeed if the mother so chooses.
3) The same age when the child is being weaned off a bottle to solid food.
4) No, I don't think older children need breast milk.
5) A: Yes, mothers should be allowed to feed in public so long as it is done in a discreet fashion.
5) C: I'd say those who have a problem with it in public isn't with the mothers who place a blanket over a child or some other way of covering the action. It is with those mothers who do not do that.
6) Actually, I don't have that much of a problem with that given that most women's bathrooms are rather comfortable with chairs, couches, etc. (Good luck trying to find that in a men's bathroom.)

I am so sad! I planned to nurse my second son exclusively and was all set to do it, and I started off really good and he was a pro, then I started bleeding. And I had to be hospitalized and have a D&C done and after that it was like all the stress I have been under the past month and a half came crashing down on me and my body stopped making milk. I was so upset. So now the baby is on formula and while he is happy I am still wishing I could have nursed him longer. Oh well. At least he is happy right?

That's so sad. Maybe it's not too late to get the milk flowing again, but if not, well, you did the very best you could for your son, and it wasn't your fault things went wrong. And even a short period of breastfeeding is much better than none at all.

6) Actually, I don't have that much of a problem with that given that most women's bathrooms are rather comfortable with chairs, couches, etc. (Good luck trying to find that in a men's bathroom.)


Really? Where are these bathrooms of wonderment? I've never seen one! It's most likely to be a grubby plastic chair next to a pull-down changing table and a bin full of smelly nappies!

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?

I think it is healthier than formulas, so yes, if I have a child, I would breastfeed them.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?

I don't really think its a smart thing to do. I think up to 2 yrs old, even, is waaay too long. And, no, it isn't really fair to the mother to have to breastfeed her child when they can eat and drink on their own.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?

I wouldn't know, I'm not a mom! But, 3-4 yrs is waaay too long.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
I think its more of a comfort thing.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Well, if they want people staring at them, then they can go ahead! I personally wouldn't. They should go into the bathroom to do that. Its cleaner (most of the time) and more private.

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
People are big on rights and "discrimination" today, but I persomally think thats an excuse for them to do whatever they want.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
Ummm, breastfeeding your kid in a public resturant?!? Umm, yes, please do go do that in the bathroom!

Really? Where are these bathrooms of wonderment? I've never seen one! It's most likely to be a grubby plastic chair next to a pull-down changing table and a bin full of smelly nappies!

Yeah, I rarely see furniture in public bathrooms. I think a couple times in nicer restaurants, I've seen some small upholstered benches, but that's it. Usually I don't even see a grubby plastic chair.

So sorry to hear that - any chance of re-establishing the flow. Maybe a breast pump would help, and if he only gets your milk by bottle, he's still getting that extra goodness.


No, unfortunately I am all dried up. I am so bummed out. I was really looking forward to it. The lactation consultant I had told me all the stress I have been under (which has caused me not to be able to eat very much) has sapped all my body's strength and I just can't handle making any milk. I tried a pump for a bit but I was bone dry, my son couldn't even get any milk out of me, it broke my heart. I am pretty sad about it, his poop stinks really bad now lol.

his poop stinks really bad now lol.
I couldn't believe how disgusting my bottle-fed nephew's poop was! Breastmilk poop is, well, not exactly pleasant, but not very poop-like either!

That's so sad. Maybe it's not too late to get the milk flowing again, but if not, well, you did the very best you could for your son, and it wasn't your fault things went wrong. And even a short period of breastfeeding is much better than none at all.


Really? Where are these bathrooms of wonderment? I've never seen one! It's most likely to be a grubby plastic chair next to a pull-down changing table and a bin full of smelly nappies!

Some department stores have them, certain offices do, etc. I was literally stunned when my girlfriend (now wife) told me how many women's rooms have counches, chairs, etc.

The Questions:

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
No I wouldn't breastfeed my children. :no:

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time? No, not if she doesn't want to!

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
When they start getting teeth!

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
I think it's more of a comfort thing, there's plenty of other ways to get the nutrition they need!

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
No! It's very gross, no offense, but I personally wouldn't want to see a child hanging off their mother! :no: w

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?
I already did, it's gross!

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
I don't think they should accomdate to the mothers who breast feed, they can get a pump to get the milk into a bottle!

breastfeedingis the best experience you can have,and its emotiaonally healthy for you and your baby,ive done it with my two girls for a complete year and saved alot of money,and they are really close to me.

Okay, just because women breast feed their babies, then they're really close to their children? And those mothers who don't breast feed are close to their children? So basicly I'm not close to my mother?

I don't think closeness really goes with it - I bottle fed my eldest and breastfed the other two. I wouldn't say I'm less close to the eldest. the youngest who I breastfed for longer is more of a cwtchy child - but I think that's him - toddlers boys do tend to be more cwtchy.

If you don't hate the idea then I agree it is emotionally good for you - however if you hate the bare idea of it it's not going to be good for you emotionally (the physical health benefits are still there - but not the emotional ones)

As for feeding in the toilets - I think I did that once, then thought why am I doing this? After that if they were hungry I fed them wherever I was - if I wouldn't ask for permission to feed my baby a bottle I'm not going to ask to breastfed either. You can do it subtley, and you don't see flesh really. I'd turn away when latching them on to start with. Often people wouldn't notice. I was feeding my son once, in the waiting room at the doctors - we were called so I got up and went in - with him still feeding. Doctor started asking me questions and asked how I was feeding him. I looked down at the baby, wasn't it obvious?

Hahahaha, thats great Iolaus, I agree with you too.

I plan on breastfeeding my baby (due in september), because it helps counter some health problems which can occur in later life, like diabetes etc,

not only that, its cheaper, and less hassle, its what we HAVE BOOBS FOR, and to be selfish, it can help you get back into shape after the birth lol.

I was feeding my son once, in the waiting room at the doctors - we were called so I got up and went in - with him still feeding. Doctor started asking me questions and asked how I was feeding him. I looked down at the baby, wasn't it obvious?
Nice one!

I strongly believe that most people only think breastfeeding is gross because of the perverted 20th century view of breasts as purely sexual. It's actually incredibly beautiful both to do and to watch. But there are a couple of skipped generations when bottle-feeding was the "norm", even though IMO there is nothing more unnatural than feeding your child the powdered, chemically altered milk of a cow (or a soya bean!), in a plastic bottle with a rubber or silicone teat. It's proven that women who have seen their mothers, sisters and/or friends breastfeed, are much more likely to breastfeed their own children, and that's not at all surprising when you think about it.

I also think it's highly discriminatory to both mother and child to demand that a mother expresses her milk to bottlefeed her child, just so that other people, who may not even notice that she is breastfeeding, don't risk catching a glimpse of something beautiful, hygienic, natural, and completely inoffensive. Of course we shouldn't whip our **** out and slap them on a restaurant table, but discreet breastfeeding in public is completely unproblematic, and mostly people don't even know you are doing it.

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
Yes, I have breast fed all three, and plan to breastfeed the fourth due in september.

2. Do you think it’s fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
I don't really get this question, how is it not fair? If the mother feeds for an extended period of time , it's her choice to do so, theremay be pressure from other parties to continue, but ultimately they ar eher breasts, if she doesn't want to latch the baby on, nobody else is going to pick her child up and do it for her.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
When the mother feels it is right. I fed the eldest until she was 16 months, the middle one until she was 14 months and the youngets until she was 18 months, I fed her for longer as she had severe allergies to different things, milk being one.Soya was not an option so had to keep on until she was old enough to have rice/oat milk.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think it’s more of a comfort thing?
They are still getting antibodies, they are still getting milk, it is stille asier to digest than cows milk, and to be perfectly honest, if you are stopping breast feeding to put them on to formula milk, why bother?

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
yes

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldn’t be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others don’t agree with it?
because they view breasts as sexual objects only, and have not reached a stage of maturity where they can view a baby being fed as something completely seperate from sexual activity. I do think that some women do try to cause offence though. When feeding a baby in public, tehre is no need to bare all, and some do on purpose.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
They should eat in the toilets themselves.

I breast fed all of mine for the usual added health reasons, but also becuase I'm a lazy so and so, and really could not be bothered with sterilising and making up bottles. I know some women can't breatfeed, I would never say anything to someone whose choices were other than mine that they were wrong, I am just glad that I don't have to make up bottles! As to *** breast sagging point raised earlier, I have fed three, my chest is definitely on the larger cup size, but I am not heading south, so I do not agree, perosnally speaking, that feeding makes you sag. Maybe if you don't use a good bra?

I'm not a mother yet and hopefully won't be one for a few years. I would like to breastfeed my children when I have them. I believe it gives a great start for your baby passing on antibodies to prevent infections and there is research that claims that breastfed babies have less risk of developing asthma. I have been told by my mum that it hurts like heck but its a great way to get back in shape after the birth.

I find though there should be a limit that once a baby starts solids that breast feeding should generally stop, maybe express milk for 1 bottle but that should be it. The children who are still feeding at around 3 or 4 I feel is a bit disturbing. There was an episode of supernanny where the child of 4 was still breast feeding. The child was practically pulling up her mums top to get at her breasts (yuck).