Killthebear April 11th, 2006, 6:06 am WARNING: This is a spoiler free area. For all Deathly Hallows discussion, please head to The Deathly Hallows Forum (http://www.cosforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=156). Any posts in this thread that are considered to be spoilers shall be deleted by staff. Thank you.
I was just thinking about this and i honestly need to hear opinions. What if VM happens to know that it is known he has created horcruxes and they are at risk? What if he knows the steps that Dumbledore took to defeat him? This popped up in my head when i was reading OotP when DD and VM were having their showdown and Dumbledore did not try to kill Voldemort. Ive come to think that because DD at the time knew the prophecy he knew that he could not entirely vanquish VM at the time and was just trying to use some other powerful magic to stall. VM even asks in this scene why DD isnt trying to kill him.. This lead me to think that maybe VM was confused about this and maybe after their little duel he went home and poured himself a cup of tea and maybe thought about the situation for awhile. I mean honestly he is a pretty bright character. I mean this could lead to him obsessively checking his horcruxes and create a meeting between him and Harry almost midway through book 7. Other than that all i can think is if he knows more than is given off it will make for a much darker book 7 with many traps.
Apparently this was renamed but its fitting
Shark_M April 11th, 2006, 7:21 am He does not know any of the hurcruxes. No I dont think so.
But he might find out when harry finished them all.
Voldemort have put extremely powerfull spells to protect the hurcruxes. He does not expect anyone to be able to take them all.
He was not sure that any of them will work. "One of my experiments has worked"....
So he needs at least one to stay alive.
He made 6 more as redundant. So he is not worried that much.
Voldemort told dumbledore, that " Above such brutaility are you dumbledore" he was refering to death.. Then dumbledore told him i want to see you tormented, death will not satisfy me.
So its obvious why dumbledore does not want to kill him.
Dumbledore was "happy with a gleam in his face" when he know the dark lord used harry's blood (filled with love) to return. The blood has a secret. Vodemort might be easier to get at this time. becuase he has love running in his veins. (its weakness??)
Anyways. my 2 cents
Chel April 11th, 2006, 5:18 pm Voldemort probably didn't find out about R.A.B. wanting to destroy horcruxes either (the locket R.A.B. left hasn't been moved since Dumbledore came), so i suppose he still thinks there's nothing to worry about.
katie April 11th, 2006, 5:28 pm I don't think he knows because he has split his soul so many times. If just one gets destroyed he wouldn't really notice, because it's such a small part of him. However, I imagine that when there's just him and, let's say, 1 other horcrux, he'll feel...weaker or something...and then he'll realise what has happened. VM strikes me as one of those people who concentrates only on what he is doing, and is so bigheaded that he vastly underestimates Harry and thinks of Harry as on the same level as the Ministry - when in fact he is much better.
So no, I don't think VM knows about the horcrux hunt, but he may realise in the future...
Killthebear April 11th, 2006, 6:29 pm i can see what you all mean, it was just an idea, but i just cant but help thinking VM (whos greatest fear is death) would not obsessively check up on his steps which prevent him from dying. Also i remembered some other points about why he might assume they are at a major risk, because "when he was beside himself" about Lucius allowing the diary to be destroyed. I actually dont really know where im going with this.. im tired ..:drool:
risingchaos April 11th, 2006, 9:36 pm i can see what you all mean, it was just an idea, but i just cant but help thinking VM (whos greatest fear is death) would not obsessively check up on his steps which prevent him from dying.
That's an interesting thought, but he had two books basically to look in on his horcruxes... It does not seem as though he found about the fake horcrux in the cave. Unless that one was the last on his list and he took awhile in getting to it...
But I rather doubt that he knows anything about the horcrux hunting.
mystic_22 April 11th, 2006, 9:41 pm Right now he thinks that the only person who knows about the horcruxes is himself. He is totally clueless about Dumbledor's discoveries. As for R.A.B(God bless him whoever he is).. I doubt Voldemort knows about him and the locket because if he did he wouldn't have left the note lying there.
CelestLBeing April 11th, 2006, 9:54 pm Dumbledore said Voldemort doesn't feel it when a Horcrux is destroyed. And since Voldemort knows Dumbledore wasn't trying to kill him, and his horcrux are there to prevent him from dyeing, he would never suspect Dumbledore of Horcrux hunting.
I really don't think he suspects anything.
mollyw424 April 11th, 2006, 9:56 pm We can only hope that Voldemort doesn't know. Secrecy is critical to the whole mission. If Voldemort found out Harry even knew what a horcrux is, or that Dumbledore had suspected what he was up to and told Harry, he could take steps to protect his existing horcruxes and possibly make new ones.
The only hope Harry has of defeating Voldemort is if nobody finds out! Harry has to destroy all the horcruxes before Voldemort figures out what he's doing. That's why only Ron and Hermione know about them. Harry is going to have to be extremely careful all through Book 7, or the whole mission could fail.
JAMIE_DUH April 11th, 2006, 9:59 pm I dont think Voldemort realizes his horcruxes are being destroyed.... why would Dumbledore keep it such a secret? I think they wanted to sneak up on Voldemort. Destroy all his horcuxes, face him and then, Voldemort wont realize it will be his last duel.
firetothebolt April 11th, 2006, 10:11 pm I think Voldemort has a sense that his horcruxes are in danger because when he found out about his schooldays diary he was livid.
Also, if Dumbledore and R.A.B. know about them then that means other people could know about them too. My point with this is that Voldemort would be on guard if he was giving the horcruxe info out so easily that not one but two of his enemies have found out about them.
Voldemort has to know. Plus, it would make 7 so much more exciting.
Killthebear April 11th, 2006, 10:34 pm Yeah in regards to book seven what would be the fun in only hearing about voldemort and not physically seeing him through out the early to mid scenes in the book, especially now that (yes i think hes dead) Dumbledore is out of the way and Voldemort in my opinion is pretty free to go out in public where he wants too. I personally hope along with the showdown that Harry maybe runs into when leaving a place where one of his horcruxes is
ronmione_ April 11th, 2006, 10:57 pm i dont think he knows about the mission. but i do have a feeling that things will get a lot worse before they get better. so i think maybe voldemort could find out just as harry is about to go for the last one for just that little bit more drama...
but you never know, hopefully R.A.B (or Regulus Black for those theorists) could have destroyed a few, i just hope he's on the other side of that mirror!!
RaspberryJam April 11th, 2006, 11:20 pm I was just thinking about this and i honestly need to hear opinions. What if VM happens to know that it is known he has created horcruxes and they are at risk? What if he knows the steps that Dumbledore took to defeat him? This popped up in my head when i was reading OotP when Dumbledore and VM were having their showdown and Dumbledore did not try to kill Voldemort. Ive come to think that because Dumbledore at the time knew the prophecy he knew that he could not entirely vanquish VM at the time and was just trying to use some other powerful magic to stall. VM even asks in this scene why Dumbledore isnt trying to kill him.. This lead me to think that maybe VM was confused about this and maybe after their little duel he went home and poured himself a cup of tea and maybe thought about the situation for awhile. I mean honestly he is a pretty bright character. I mean this could lead to him obsessively checking his horcruxes and create a meeting between him and Harry almost midway through book 7. Other than that all i can think is if he knows more than is given off it will make for a much darker book 7 with many traps.
I would just like to make a couple points. First of all, it is not well known that Voldemort has made hocruxes. Actually, only three (4?) people know, not inlcuding Dumbledore. Of course, non of those three people talk to Voldemort, or any other dark wizard, so I don't see how Voldemort would know that they know. Also, keep in mind, none of the Death Eaters (that we know of) know about the horcruxes, so if they heard a rumour, they wouldn't even understand it.
As for Voldemort being suspicious of Dumbledore, I would say yes, he was. I'm sure Voldemort didn't understand why Dumbledore didn't try to kill him, and I'm sure he was intrigued by the "there is more than one way to kill a man" comment (keep in mind, that could have been directed at Sirius, but Voldemort doesn't know that). I'm sure Voldemort had his suspicions, but I don't think he knew that Dumbledore knew for sure.
Lastly, remember, Voldemort can't feel when a horcrux is destroyed, so he can't know that way. Also, he doesn't seem to check on his soul peices that often, becuase if he did, he would have read and removed the note before Harry and Dumbledore got to it.
It's my belief that Voldemort knew that Dumbledore knew of the horcruxes, but thought he was the only one. Telling people about horcruxes isn't something you do often, so I think Voldemort knew he didn't spread the news. So, Dumbledore is dead, and now he thinks the secret died with him, but it didn't.
I'm going to say no, he doesn't know of the "horquest", but he will. :evil:
Snout April 11th, 2006, 11:50 pm He may or may not know, but i'm pretty sure he doesn't. I think the locket in Grimmauld place is slytherins locket and that RAB is regulus black, and if Voldemort was aware of the hunt for the horcruxes i think he would have been to see if the locket had gone. I think RAB was killed before Voldemort could find out about him taking a horcrux, but i don't know who buy. Threfore i thik he doesn;t know, but i'm sure he'll find out in book seven.
daniel2099 April 11th, 2006, 11:56 pm depend on where snap realy stands
if on Dumbledore side then no
if on Voldemort side then yes
Snout April 12th, 2006, 12:00 am It doesn't necessarily depend on whether Snape is on the good or bad side. I don't think Dumbledore whould have told Snape about the horcruxes, only Harry.
XavierCroft April 12th, 2006, 2:27 am I think that Voldemort is ignorant at the start of book 7. That being said, he will know before the are destroyed, likely before the last one. Might even be the final duel, destroying the last Horcrux, then Voldy.
Tlg April 12th, 2006, 4:14 pm I think that the horcurxes is one of the thing that dumbledore and snape argued over so i dont think snape knows
BurrowGhoul April 12th, 2006, 9:23 pm Dumbledore said, when Harry asked him, that he doesn't think Voldemort knows when a Horcrux is destroyed. If Dumbledore said it, it has to be true. Otherwise book & is going to be a house of cards falling down to destruction.
aggiefan1206 April 12th, 2006, 10:40 pm I am sure that Voldemort at this time does not know that Harry is hunting horcruxes. He most likely would not even suspect that Harry would know about such dark magic. He knows that Harry is not dark wizard. He knows about the diary being destroyed but besides that I really dont know if he knows about the others being hunted. I wonder how certain people would find out about horcruxes. I dont see Voldmeort willingly telling his "friends" about why he was really saved from the Avada Kedavra. Someone else found out but how? Did RAB get the info for Voldemort or was there someone clever enough like DUmbledore to figure it out. I am sure he will eventually find out but it could be too late for him by the time he does. Nagini will be the big kicker if she is a horcrux and Harry destroys her. IT all may depend on Voldemort tuning back into Harry thoughts although you would think that Voldemort would be smart enough to not start that up again. The only one I wonder about is Snape does he know of the horcruxes? I really dont know why he would, yes he healed Dumbledore but I am sure that Dumbledore is clever enough to come up with something creative that helped Snape to stop whatever mess up his hand.
Johno April 12th, 2006, 10:52 pm Like has been mentioned, Dumbledore said something about Voldemort not feeling when Horcruxes are destroyed. Therefore in my opinion, unless he looks for one and finds it destroyed he won't know. I am guessing he knows about the diary because Lucious Malfoy would have told him about the books destruction. I think that he may begin to perhaps feel weaker though as more are destroyed.
layla9188 April 13th, 2006, 12:18 am i dont think he believes that DD knew about that.
DJR April 13th, 2006, 12:52 am I don't think Voldemort knows about the search, the only people that I think know about the search are Dumbledore and Harry.
aggiefan1206 April 13th, 2006, 4:08 am I dont think that Voldemort knows that Dumbledore knew why he was still alive. DUmbledore tells Harry that he may only tell Ron/Hermione what him and Dumbledore are up to because they would not like someone to go and tell Voldemort what was going on. This in a way may give Harry an advantage but he may go and check his hiding places.
MionesRevenge April 15th, 2006, 1:15 am Dumbledore said, when Harry asked him, that he doesn't think Voldemort knows when a Horcrux is destroyed. I guess that means you can't feel when a Horcrux is destroyed? If you can't, I don't really know how Voldemort could know about the search, unless he went to check up on the Horcruxes or if someone informed him. He'll eventually figure things out though, otherwise the story would be a little difficult to end.
FuzzyMuffins April 15th, 2006, 3:45 pm Voldemort could attempt Legillemency on Harry, and see that Haryy knows about his Horcri. Even though he gave this up in HBP, he might attempt it on occasion in seven.
Kidney Pie April 18th, 2006, 5:06 pm I don't think Voldemort knows yet. I think he was meant to know.
I think RAB wanted Voldemort to find the fake horcrux or why put it there?
Some people think Voldemort places Horcruxes in locations and does not return for them. But he must return to look at them or admire them. Maybe he thinks no one knows he has made Horcruxes. But RAB must have figured that Voldemort would return for his horcrux, so that is why he put the fake one there. Maybe he thought that if Voldemort found the fake one then Voldemort would realize that maybe other Horcruxes were in danger as well. This would make Voldemort go and check on the rest of them. So maybe RAB planned to be waiting for him as he went to check the rest of them. Now I have theorized that RAB refilled the basin and that the potion Dumbledore drank was not intended for Dumbledore but was intended to weaken Voldemort as he went to check on a horcrux. He would drink the potion and discover that the horcrux was fake. Then the potion would weaken him and he would possibly die but before he died he would know he was dying and he would be having all these terrible memories. That would be a good way to die. So I figured that this was a trap that RAB set up for Voldemort and that this trap was triggered too early by Dumbledore. This is why I think Harry needs to put the fake Horcrux back where he found it. I am not sure about the potion in the basin though. Maybe it refills itself or maybe Harry can put another potion in there. Voldemort would probably just make someone else drink this for him. But if Harry puts poison in there, he can at least take out a Death eater.
Anyway, RAB intended for Voldemort to discover that his Horcruxes are not safe. RAB wanted Voldemort to know that people were after his Horcruxes and that he was in more danger than he had ever imagined. I am not sure if Voldemort knows yet that his Horcruxes are in danger. I think the only one he knows about is the diary. I don't know if he knows about the ring or locket yet. I think Harry could put the fake one back and let Voldemort find out like RAB intended. But maybe Voldemort already knows about the locket but thinks that Dumbledore or Harry destroyed it. Maybe he doesn't know about RAB. This might be good or helpful for Harry. But I don't know what would have happened if Voldemort thought RAB was the one who destroyed the locket. I think it would be better if Voldemort doesn't know that Harry and Dumbledore know about the Horcruxes. Then he will assume he is fine.
But I think RAB had a plan and a trap set up for Voldemort in that cave that night. I think he planned to have destroy more of the Horcruxes but have Voldemort believe he didn't know where the final one was. Voldemort would go and make sure his final Horcrux was safe, only to find the fake locket. Then he'd be really surprised that he was down to only the piece that resided in his own body. He'd be really angry and also scared and probably easy to attack and kill, especially if he somehow was stupid enough to drinkt he potion in the basin.
Anyway, RAB planned for Voldemort to return to that room and find the fake. This was a trap or a plan that didn't work out. I think Harry needs to find out what RAB was planning to do in that room. It could be the way to win and RAB knew about it, but didn't finish. But maybe Harry can finish where RAB left off.
ID824 April 18th, 2006, 5:17 pm I think the dialogue between Dumbledore and Voldemort in the Department of Mysteries is clear enough that although WE as readers know NOW that Dumbledore was probably aware of the Horcruxes, we didn't at the time, and the dialogue still makes sense. When Dumbledore talks to Harry about Voldemort's soul and how anxious he was to tear it to pieces to save himself, Dumbledore obviously values his whole soul very much and would not risk it just to kill Voldemort. He would find some other way to defeat/detain him, even if he hadn't known about the horcruxes, or if he believed them to all eb destroyed.
mwbashful18 April 18th, 2006, 5:57 pm Assuming he doesn't know about the hunt, but he does know about Harry instinctively destroying the diary Horcrux, what if he made a new Horcrux to replace the diary? Could you imagine Harry calling LV out for a battle, thinking it was the final showdown, only to have LV survive an AK or some kind of death again because they miscounted? Someone major could die, like Ron, and it would be a major event before the REAL final confrontation.
Freaky April 18th, 2006, 6:04 pm No, only Dumbledore, Harry, Ron and Hermione (and Slughorn) know about the Horcruxes. This was stressed in Half Blood Prince. If Voldemort knows then he has some sort of bugging device or Ron and/or Hermione must be spies.
mwbashful18 April 18th, 2006, 6:28 pm I think the dialogue between Dumbledore and Voldemort in the Department of Mysteries is clear enough that although WE as readers know NOW that Dumbledore was probably aware of the Horcruxes, we didn't at the time, and the dialogue still makes sense. When Dumbledore talks to Harry about Voldemort's soul and how anxious he was to tear it to pieces to save himself, Dumbledore obviously values his whole soul very much and would not risk it just to kill Voldemort. He would find some other way to defeat/detain him, even if he hadn't known about the horcruxes, or if he believed them to all eb destroyed.
Dumbledore didn't try to kill LV in the atrium at the MoM because he was possessing Harry. LV was like trying to goad him into killing him, just because Dumbledore would end up killing Harry instead. It was then that Dumbledore said he realized LV had Horcruxes.
DramaDork April 18th, 2006, 9:35 pm I don't think he knows, but when Dumbledore destroyed Marvolo's ring after their duel (not the one in the Department of Mysteries) wouldn't Voldemort have wondered "Hey, why'd he do that?" I don't know maybe I'm confused.
DALeader April 19th, 2006, 12:15 am I feel that he does not yet know that people have found out about his horcruxes or that they are being destroyed.
DarkDaysAhead April 20th, 2006, 1:36 am I don't think he knows as, if he did, he'd probably step up the protection around them considerably. Dumbledore would have been extremely careful so as to not alert him to his knowledge and I think one of the main purposes behind Harry not telling everyone in the Order of them is to keep it a secret from Voldemort.
SusanBones April 20th, 2006, 2:02 am Harry's job is going to be hard enough without Voldemort knowing about it. I think that Voldemort will remain as arrogant as he has always been and think that his horcruxes are perfectly safe.
frank_KoG April 20th, 2006, 2:07 am Voldie is a bit overconfident so he would more than likely believe no one knows of his horcruxes especially with Dumbledore dead. He couldnt send any Death Eaters to check on them cuz he wants to keep them secret. I think with his overconfidence he would think 'if i havent told anybody then no one knows about it.'
Kidney Pie April 20th, 2006, 3:28 am Yeah, I think more than likely he will be strutting around and monologing and thinking he is invincible. He might even do something stupid like say "Go ahead, take a shot at me, you can't kill me." Of course I don't really think he'd mean to actually let Harry take a shot at him without defending himself. But maybe something would happen. Maybe if you are in a wizard's duel and you say something like that then you are somehow vowing to let that person take a shot at you, I don't know. Anyway, He'll think he has plenty of horcruxes left when he actually has none left. Then he will die and be very surprised about it.
g_i_n_n_y April 20th, 2006, 4:24 am Voldemort doesn't know when one of his horcrux are detroyed but Voldemort would one day know that someone would discover his horcrux secret.
BuDdY_LoVe May 18th, 2006, 9:07 am i was wondering ..wouldnt voldemort feel something if his horcrux was destroyed
wouldnt you feel something if a part of your soul has been destroyed???
Shadowdark August 10th, 2006, 7:42 pm It would be great if after Harry has found a few of them, that Voldemort finds out, and then there would be a massive confrontation whilst he is trying to get to it and destroy it. I don't know exactly he would find out, unless someone on the good side is a spy, or one of the baddies someone finds out.
If Voldemort knew, I don't know much what he could do because he only has a one-in-seven chance of getting to the one where they are first, but that wouldn't really stop him if he is apparating.
i was wondering ..wouldnt voldemort feel something if his horcrux was destroyed
wouldnt you feel something if a part of your soul has been destroyed???
I'm sure one of the characters, maybe Dumbledore, said that Voldemort wouldn't feel it until the moment when Harry confronts him. I'm hoping Vldemort finds out before to make it more exciting.
LuvHP_001 August 10th, 2006, 9:57 pm Dumbledore said, when Harry asked him, that he doesn't think Voldemort knows when a Horcrux is destroyed. If Dumbledore said it, it has to be true.
That's a good point and I just don't think Voldemort knows about R.A.B. and the fake horcrux or that 4 (it was 4 right?) horcruxes were already destroyed.
I think he will find out at some point. We know Voldemort is good at making plans so it stumps me as to why he isn't more concerned/aware about Harry and Dumbledore knowing and finding them. It's very, un-voldemort like.
daniel2099 August 11th, 2006, 5:55 am That's a good point and I just don't think Voldemort knows about R.A.B. and the fake horcrux or that 4 (it was 4 right?) horcruxes were already destroyed.
I think he will find out at some point. We know Voldemort is good at making plans so it stumps me as to why he isn't more concerned/aware about Harry and Dumbledore knowing and finding them. It's very, un-voldemort like.
if dd right then nigie is a horx so he has one in plaane view that is also always next to him
LuvHP_001 August 11th, 2006, 6:22 am if Dumbledore right then nigie is a horx so he has one in plaane view that is also always next to him
Um..what? I have no clue what you are trying to say, I can read your spelling and who is nigie?
daniel2099 August 11th, 2006, 6:42 am Um..what? I have no clue what you are trying to say, I can read your spelling and who is nigie?
nigie is the snake
LordMoldyShorts August 11th, 2006, 6:47 am nigie is the snake
I think you mean Nagani.
Anyways, I don't think he knows. I doubt there's enough soul left in him to feel the other peices of it being destroyed, so I don't think he'd notice. Maybe he'll find out when all but one are destroyed, and he'll meet Harry at it's hiding place, that would be cool for a final showdown.
Arckon August 11th, 2006, 6:50 am I think he won't know
Ginny1976 November 15th, 2006, 10:58 pm I just started a thread on this same subjuect of Voldemort not knowing when his horcrux's are being destroyed. But it was quickly closed and has been redirected here. Here was my point:
So, after reading in the graveyard scene in GoF, what caught my eye was that Voldemort, in recalling his past, talks about the Socerer's Stone then jumps to Wormtail finding him. He never mentions the Chamber of Secrets.
So to me, this means that he doens't know when his horcrux's have been destroyed.
Then my brother brought up a great point when I was talking to him about it. He said that if you cut off you finger, you won't feel that detached part of you. And so, IMO, this is the way with his soul. He ripped apart a piece of his soul and when that part has left him, he won't be able to feel it.
MHPFAN November 15th, 2006, 11:26 pm I don't think he knows. As others have said, Dumbledore told Harry/us that Voldemort cannot feel it when a horcrux is destroyed. This is obviously to Harry's advantage because if he destroys all of the prior horcruxes and goes to battle with Voldemort, obviously, he can vanquish him completely. Therefore, I really doubt Voldemort knows anything about Harry's mission.
Martigan November 16th, 2006, 3:30 am I think the book will end with LV dead and a doubt left in our heads as to whether or not there was one more horecrux remaining.
Iqen November 16th, 2006, 11:56 am Voldemort probably didn't find out about R.A.B. wanting to destroy horcruxes either (the locket R.A.B. left hasn't been moved since Dumbledore came), so i suppose he still thinks there's nothing to worry about.
This is also got me thinking...in the fifth book when Harry,Sirius and the Weasleys were cleaning Grimmuald Place. Sirius and harry find a heavy locket which they couldnt open even with enchantments. So probably R.A.B is Regulus black.
Suricate November 16th, 2006, 12:54 pm I think he doesn't know when a horcrux is destroyed, for now. But he will discover it anyway. There are already 2 of 7 Horcruxes which have been destroyed and I can't help thinking he will fell weaker and weaker every time a piece of his soul will be destroyed.
However, it comes to me that Snape may have tell him what he did for Dumbledore's arm and doing so, Wake Voldy's suspicions. I also think that DE, or some of them, know about at least one Horcrux. After all, L. Malfoy had the diary in charge and RAB knew the whereabout of the locket. They may ignore what they are, but I'm sure they know it exist.
Yoana November 16th, 2006, 4:44 pm I'm guessing this has already been actively discussed, but I've missed it, so I'll ask you here - do you think Snape knows about the Horcruxes? Has Dumbledore confided in him since he trusted him so firmly? And if you believe that Snape is on the Dark side, the he must have told his Master about the hunt, right? Or at least about Dumbledore's knowing and Voldemort is smart enough to conclude he's not safe anymore. But if Snape is Dumbledore's man, then he'll do everything he can to distract Voldemort from his horcruxes so that Harry could do his job more easily. So I think it depends very much on whether Dumbledore confided in Snape or not. He went to Snape when his hand was injured, but did he tell him the truth about how it was done?
amyluhu November 16th, 2006, 4:53 pm Nope Voldemort does not know. He knows that the book was destroyed. He knows that Nagini is near him and safe. But I think his head is so big that he doesn't think anybody can get his Horcruxes. If I were him I think I would have put a charm on them so they notified me somehow when the defenses around them have been messed with.
Quent November 26th, 2006, 9:56 pm well i think if voldemort had even a thought of this happening,he would have checked all of his horcruxes,and gathered them,so there wouldnt even be dumledore's death in HBP,so maybe he wondered why Dumbldore wasnt trying to killhim until Dumbledores reply,"there are worst things than death Tom,as you and i both know."so that possibly turned off his thoughts of dumbledore knowing.
MagicalMoo December 6th, 2006, 9:16 pm I searched to see if there was anything about this, but I didn't find anything. If there's already a thread about this, please delete it :) -bites lip and starts- (This is my first thread, so I'm rather nervous.)
Well, I was re-reading Goblet of Fire the other day, and I noticed something when reading Voldemort's... speech, I guess you would call it, to the Death Eaters after he is reborn. He skips from telling the Death Eaters about the events at the end of Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone to Wormtail returning to him. This made me wonder: was Voldemort aware of his horcrux's activity? One would think that if he had been so close to returning to power, he would have mentioned it to the Death Eaters (I think he would have, at least).
Is it possible that Voldemort was unaware of what his 16-year-old memory was doing? Or did he intentionally skip over those events? I'd love to hear your thoughts :)
crazy_ned December 6th, 2006, 9:25 pm I don't think Voldy knew about the Diary at the time, although Lucius may have told him afterwards.
MrsMollywobbles December 6th, 2006, 9:31 pm I am inclined to think Voldemort remains blissfully unaware of what took place in the COS with the diary and his 16 year old self, and I rather doubt Lucius would have told him he'd carelessly tossed one of his possessions into a non-supporter's cauldron and thereby allowed it to be ruined. That's like begging Voldemort to punish him! But as for Voldemort knowing - by whatever means - I doubt it because as important as the horcruxes are to his long term survival, if he knew they were being found and destroyed (or even realized anyone was looking for them), I think he'd be doing more to insure their safety.
Araminta December 6th, 2006, 9:37 pm can he feel something when his horcruxes get destroyed? cuz that would mean that he did know. however in hbp or something it said voldemort was angry with malfoy when he found out that the horcrux was destroyed which would mean he couldnt feel it and he no knowledge of the diarys destruction previous to malfoy telling him. so i dont think he knew what his 16 yr old memory was diong either...
SiriusBlack101 December 6th, 2006, 10:22 pm I don't believe he knew about the Diary destruction, at least not at the time of his "re-birth." The Tom Riddle that came out of the diary in CoS was a a memory - not a living, breathing person (though Tom does mention he'll be "very much alive" once Ginny died, which means he could have turned into a real person if the diary hadn't been destroyed).
The_Pensive December 6th, 2006, 10:30 pm I believe dumbledore even mentions that voldemort has no idea about the diary, and if he did, there'd probably be another horcrux. But besides that, in CoS voldemort really isn't the villain, it's his 16 year old memory. So one could assume that it was unknown to him/he didn't find it important to the point of his speech. I mean, if he threw in "and then harry potter destroyed my diary" it would sound stupid. Plus it wasn't really relevant to his point, which was in rise to "re-birth".
missjanepotter December 7th, 2006, 6:50 am What I believe is that Voldemort knows that his Horcruxes have been destroy, I mean if he has split his soul in pieces how could he not know
that they are gone, it just doesn´t makes sense to me...
I dont know :nc:
What do you think???
IgoRetla December 7th, 2006, 5:15 pm Dumbledore knows that the Diary has been destroyed, but he doesn't know about the hunt. Yet. Otherwise there would have been live guards at the Cave, and they probably would have ambushed Harry and a weakened Dumbledore as they left.
crazy_ned December 7th, 2006, 7:01 pm What I believe is that Voldemort knows that his Horcruxes have been destroy, I mean if he has split his soul in pieces how could he not know that they are gone, it just doesn´t makes sense to me...
I dont know :nc:
What do you think???
It's debatable whether or not Voldy could actually feel or sense a Horcrux being destroyed, but if he could, it would stand to reason that he would immediately replace the Horcrux in order to keep the magical number of 7.
magicgirl_06 December 7th, 2006, 7:20 pm I don't think he does at this moment in time, but he will find out in book 7......:td: :evil: :sigh:
CelestLBeing December 7th, 2006, 7:41 pm I don't believe he does. He has no reason to think anyone even knows about them. He is over confident and that will be his downfall.
GabyPotter December 7th, 2006, 8:01 pm you know i've thinking about this too but i came to the conlusion that as bright as he might be he is also veeery proud so he wouldn't believe that Dumby is ahead of him in anything, least of all in information about his super secret horcruxes!... maybe after their fight in the Ministery he thought about what'd happened but came to the conclusion that dumby didn't kill him just because 'he believed himself to be above such brutality'
tricia_16_ December 13th, 2006, 3:22 am I don't know if Voldemort knows or not now that Haryy and DD are searching for Horcuxes, but I know he doesn't know when they are destroyed!
How?
In GOF, there's a section before the battle between Harry and Voldemort when Voldy is talking to the DE's about Harry thwarting him in the first book.
He does not, however, mention COS. He doesn't mention Tom Riddle in the diary. I think it's because he's unaware that Harry fought and destroyed one of his horcruxes!
Any thoughts about this?
Layla December 13th, 2006, 6:17 am you know i've thinking about this too but i came to the conlusion that as bright as he might be he is also veeery proud so he wouldn't believe that Dumby is ahead of him in anything, least of all in information about his super secret horcruxes!... maybe after their fight in the Ministery he thought about what'd happened but came to the conclusion that dumby didn't kill him just because 'he believed himself to be above such brutality'
I agree. Voldemort is too arrogant. He would assume that the steps he has taken are too "advanced" for anyone else to figure out or to completely neutralize.
My understnading is that Voldemort didn't find out about the Diary until he was TOLD Harry destroyed it... which should rule out the possibility of him feeling a horcrux when it is destroyed. Additionally, as someone else mentioned above, if he could feel it, what would stop from making a new one?
If Voldemort knows about the hunt for the Horcruxes, he would have to know because someone told him about it or because he could figure it out by himself. So far, we've been given no reason to believe that a process of logical deduction will lead him to the right conclusion and we're left wth someone telling him.
Cormac December 13th, 2006, 10:14 am I think that Voldemort will have an idea that his horcruxes have been discovered.
missjanepotter December 16th, 2006, 5:18 am I think that Voldemort will have an idea that his horcruxes have been discovered.
Exactly:tu: that´s what I think too :D
sulihawk December 16th, 2006, 6:15 am I think in HBP Voldemort was unaware but now he may know. I'm sure he will suspect it after hearing about how weak Dumbledore was on the tower. He surely has heard about the blackened hand of Dumbledores and may have checked on the ring. He will not believe anyone would know about multiple horcruxes until Slughorn was brought into Hogwarts. Bet he is checking on them in book 7.
Snape was in the Order and trusted by Dumbledore and so was likely told about the ring after helping Dumbledore out with the hand. He may not have been told about the rest but is smart and will figure it out.
punk_luver January 15th, 2007, 12:45 am I don't think that Voldemort can even tell if the Horcruxes worked in the first place (in GoF he states that one of his "experiments" must have worked if he's still alive, so he doesn't know if more than one has), much less if they're being destroyed. He may eventually discover through his spies that Harry is destroying the Horcruxes, but he does not know right now. I don't believe that he feels the presence or absence of the Horcruxes at all.
Also, to my knowledge, he does not even know that Lucius let the diary be destroyed; he only knows that he gave it to someone at Hogwarts. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I do, however, believe that he may speculate that Dumbledore knows about the Horcruxes once he discovers that the diary was destroyed by Harry. He may underestimate Dumbledore and not think anything of it, but I think that Voldemort knows how powerful and intelligent Dumbledore is (was, I guess), especially since he is the only wizard that Voldemort fears.
hgrwfan January 15th, 2007, 1:03 am Well rationally speaking, he might be slightly suspicious. DD is now dead, Harry will be wanting revenge. Or more importantly, there is nothing standing in the way of Voldemort taking Harry out now. So he might start checking on things making sure that everything is still in place in the event that Harry may actually be powerful enough to take him out.
EBJ23 January 15th, 2007, 10:47 pm I don't think he knew about it during HBP, but now he probably should. Voldemort is smart enough to know that Dumbledore would find out about the horcruxes and would look for them with Harry.
king_elessar January 15th, 2007, 11:15 pm if snape is really a traitor then voldemort prob does know. If snape isnt i think voldemort mite suspect something. He might of suspected that dumbledore found out when he hired slughorn to work at hogwarts and dumbledore would seek to destroy them.
Tfield2 January 16th, 2007, 12:39 am I dont think that he knows. I havent read the whole thread but what solid evidence is there that he would know about it. I think this is another one of those times that his argoance clouds his judgment so LV cant see that anyone not even DD would figure it out. Much less would DD tell Harry, who LV himself said is not a particularly skillled wizard, because LV would think how could Haryy help.
brittrossiter January 16th, 2007, 2:15 am I think that Lord Thingy knows that Dumbledore has been absent from Hogwarts for long stretches, because Snape has told him.
I also think that Lord Thingy probably suspects that Dumbledore is hip to the Horcrux bit, since Voldemort must know that Slughorn knows his secret, and must also know that Slughorn is now back at Hogwarts.
In his mind, Dumbledore's long absences, coupled with Slughorn's presence at the school, equals Dumbledore's awareness of and search for the Horcruxes. Methinks that Voldemort might be paying a visit to one or more of his hiding places in Deathly Hallows to check on their safety/security.
LeiaShadow March 18th, 2007, 9:43 pm I think that Lord Thingy knows that Dumbledore has been absent from Hogwarts for long stretches, because Snape has told him.
I also think that Lord Thingy probably suspects that Dumbledore is hip to the Horcrux bit, since Voldemort must know that Slughorn knows his secret, and must also know that Slughorn is now back at Hogwarts.
In his mind, Dumbledore's long absences, coupled with Slughorn's presence at the school, equals Dumbledore's awareness of and search for the Horcruxes. Methinks that Voldemort might be paying a visit to one or more of his hiding places in Deathly Hallows to check on their safety/security.
I agree with your first bit.
I don't really agree with your second bit. I doubt that Voldemort really thinks that Slughorn remembers that Tom Riddle really asked him about how to create a horcrux 50 years ago. At the time, Slughorn was astonished that the boy would ask such a thing, and made it very clear that he wasn't comfortable discussing it and wanted to forget the conversation as soon as possible. I think Voldemort will be betting on Slughorn being too terrified, too ashamed, in short, the reasons that Slughorn was unwilling to divulge the information to Harry. He will probably be counting on Slughorn feeling exactly the way Slughorn really felt about the memory, and Voldie will be sure that Slughorn won't tell anybody. Remember, Slughorn was so ashamed that even Dumbledore couldn't get the real thing out of him! I highly doubt that Voldemort will suspect that the boy Harry Potter will be able to get it for Dumbledore. But, Voldemort probably suspects that Dumbledore and Co. know about his horcruxes or are very close to the truth about them, due to Dumbledore's long absences and such. He will probably be a little bit cautious about some things because he doesn't know how much Dumbledore and Co. know.
I agree that Voldemort will probably pay a visit on his horcruxes to check on their status. Perhaps he will go to the cave-by-the-seashore-and-inferi-filled-lake horcrux first, discover that it is missing, then be extremely angry and run around collecting his horcruxes and maybe even frantically re-hiding them. Harry will know that this is the case because Voldemort will be so angry that Harry's scar will alert him. Perhaps, if all this happens, Harry will come upon Voldie holding all the remaining horcruxes, and it will be a simple matter of using kill-horcrux-spell (I wonder how a horcrux can be killed? is it a spell?) on the horcruxes in Voldie's arms then saying "Avada Kedavra" to Voldie. That would be so lovely....
At least, if Voldie runs around frantically picking up his horcruxes because he fears for their safety, Harry and Co. may be able to follow him and/or get to some horcruxes before Voldemort. It will turn into a massive scavenger hunt! Hooray! :lol:
taupimu March 19th, 2007, 2:59 am Voldmort know about the destruction of the diary but I don't think he know that there is an all out hunt by Harry to find and destroy all of the Horcruxes.
I'm in the Snape is good camp. I think that Snape may know about the Horcruxes and may even know or have guessed that Dumbledore is trying to discover where they are. He may even know about the attempt to destroy them. I don't believe that he has told Voldemort.
Matty2128 March 19th, 2007, 3:35 am I am kinda torn between the two options because if I was voldemort i would be atleast check up on my horcruxes because i know if there destroyed im destroyed.
But I also think that voldemort is a ''Big Head'' and doesnt think that anyone will be able to destroy them or even be able to find them for that matter.
Matt
Artemis_Fowl_2 March 19th, 2007, 7:56 pm For those for whom English is not your first language, the following refer to Lord Voldemort: Voldy, Voldie, and V.
I don't think that Voldemort can even tell if the Horcruxes worked in the first place (in GoF he states that one of his "experiments" must have worked if he's still alive, so he doesn't know if more than one has), much less if they're being destroyed. He may eventually discover through his spies that Harry is destroying the Horcruxes, but he does not know right now. I don't believe that he feels the presence or absence of the Horcruxes at all.
Also, to my knowledge, he does not even know that Lucius let the diary be destroyed; he only knows that he gave it to someone at Hogwarts. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I do, however, believe that he may speculate that Dumbledore knows about the Horcruxes once he discovers that the diary was destroyed by Harry. He may underestimate Dumbledore and not think anything of it, but I think that Voldemort knows how powerful and intelligent Dumbledore is (was, I guess), especially since he is the only wizard that Voldemort fears.
Voldemort would definitely want someone spying on Harry. Once they told Voldemort of the places Harry has gone, Voldemort will make plans to relocate still existing Horcruxes.
I think he knows that the diary was destroyed, though. Wouldn't he have Lucius show it to him?
I think that Lord Thingy knows that Dumbledore has been absent from Hogwarts for long stretches, because Snape has told him.
I also think that Lord Thingy probably suspects that Dumbledore is hip to the Horcrux bit, since Voldemort must know that Slughorn knows his secret, and must also know that Slughorn is now back at Hogwarts.
In his mind, Dumbledore's long absences, coupled with Slughorn's presence at the school, equals Dumbledore's awareness of and search for the Horcruxes. Methinks that Voldemort might be paying a visit to one or more of his hiding places in Deathly Hallows to check on their safety/security.
I would think Voldemort knows of it, too, because Slughorn was at Hogwarts. I'm sure Voldemort remembers his conversation with Slughorn because he used that knowledge to make himself as immortale as possible. Between Slughorn being there and Snape possibly telling Voldemort of Dumbledore's absences, Voldemort should be aware of the hunt for the Horcruxes. Of course, if he doesn't know then it's his own fault (and good luck for Harry!).
tuer3ssuci0 March 19th, 2007, 11:28 pm I sincerely doubt it. Voldemort would have made himself much more present after Dumbeldore destroyed the horcrux in Salazar's ring. Also, according to Dumbeldore, Voldemort cannot even feel when a horcrux is destroyed. Also, there was a fake necklace in the bowl. I doubt Voldemort would just leave it therei f he knew that someone had stolen the real horcrux.
LostWizard March 19th, 2007, 11:51 pm I don't think LV knows yet. Which is good because the one thing Harry needs is time. I think LV will find out when they are down to 1 or 2 left then he will try to cut them off and the race will be on.
jammi567 March 19th, 2007, 11:58 pm i don't think he does, because if he did, i'm sure we'd hear a bit more about destruction and disorganisation, other then a few things in the newspapers about deaths.
LeiaShadow March 20th, 2007, 5:28 am For those for whom English is not your first language, the following refer to Lord Voldemort: Voldy, Voldie, and V.
I would like to add: LV and "Lord Thingy" also refer to Lord Voldemort, and "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" or "HWMNBN" is another name people call him by, though it is far less common. :)
Buffybot March 20th, 2007, 5:09 pm I haven't read this whole thread but I'm going to jump in anyway :)
I find it really hard to believe Voldemort does not know when a Horcrux is destroyed and moreover, that he doesn't seem to know someone penetrated the Cave and took the locket. Even if part of how a Horcrux works is you don't feel a bit of your soul being destroyed, I still don't get why he would not set it up so he would know when someone broke through his magical protection around them. Otherwise what is the point of having them so well protected? Is it jsut that he's relying on luck and maybe egotism, thinking no one would ever find them? Dumbledore makes it clear that the Horcruxes are highly important to VM and that his anger when the diary was ruined was "terrible to behold". So why would he not ensure he knows when one is destroyed? Surely when part of his soul is destroyed he would notice, he would change somehow?
We can assume he doesn't know DD is looking for them or he would move them or do something drastic to try and stop it.
Shamash March 20th, 2007, 6:09 pm From HBP:
'Does Voldemort know when a Horcrux is destroyed, sir? Can he feel it?' Harry asked, ignoring the portraits.
'A very interesting question, Harry. I believe not. I believe that Voldemort is now so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of himself have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do. Perhaps, at the point of death, he might be aware of his loss... but he was not aware, for instance, that the diary had been destroyed until he forced the truth out of Lucius Malfoy. When Voldemort discovered that the diary had been mutilated and robbed of all its powers, I am told that his anger was terrible to behold.'
So DD thinks Voldemort probably does not feel when a Horcrux is destroyed, he knows about the diary from someone else (of course it would have been hard for him to feel the Horcrux being destroyed then as he was in bad shape in those days). Dumbledore destroyed the ring during the summer, if Voldemort felt that he would have had some sort of guard / warning device if someone approached the cave… as far as we know there wasn’t anyone. From the books it seems Voldemort is extremely arrogant and secretive, immersed in his arrogance and re-rise to power I find it hard for him to think his secrets have been discovered or are in any danger.
Also I doubt Snape knows about the hunt, at least from Dumbledore. He’s very shrewd and may suspect that something’s going on, but I don’t think DD trusted Snape more than he trusted McGongall and she had no idea, remember, she was trying to get info from Harry as to what they were up to. Maybe Snape as a Death Eater knows about the Horcrux as part of the “extents he went through to become immortal” but we have no idea how much they really know.
Buffybot March 20th, 2007, 6:41 pm From HBP:
'Does Voldemort know when a Horcrux is destroyed, sir? Can he feel it?' Harry asked, ignoring the portraits.
'A very interesting question, Harry. I believe not. I believe that Voldemort is now so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of himself have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do. Perhaps, at the point of death, he might be aware of his loss... but he was not aware, for instance, that the diary had been destroyed until he forced the truth out of Lucius Malfoy. When Voldemort discovered that the diary had been mutilated and robbed of all its powers, I am told that his anger was terrible to behold.'
So DD thinks Voldemort probably does not feel when a Horcrux is destroyed, he knows about the diary from someone else (of course it would have been hard for him to feel the Horcrux being destroyed then as he was in bad shape in those days). Dumbledore destroyed the ring during the summer, if Voldemort felt that he would have had some sort of guard / warning device if someone approached the cave… as far as we know there wasn’t anyone. From the books it seems Voldemort is extremely arrogant and secretive, immersed in his arrogance and re-rise to power I find it hard for him to think his secrets have been discovered or are in any danger.
Also I doubt Snape knows about the hunt, at least from Dumbledore. He’s very shrewd and may suspect that something’s going on, but I don’t think DD trusted Snape more than he trusted McGongall and she had no idea, remember, she was trying to get info from Harry as to what they were up to. Maybe Snape as a Death Eater knows about the Horcrux as part of the “extents he went through to become immortal” but we have no idea how much they really know.
Thanks for the quote I forgot the exact section. Yes, we have Dumbledore's belief that he can't feel it so we can assume that is fact I suppose. I still think it's strage though and I hope more about it is explained in DH. That doesn't really explain why he doesn't know when a Horcrux is stolen though, when someone penetrates the protection he has around them. You're right though it is probably arrogance on his part and could lead to his eventual downfall.
The bit I bolded, about knowing at the point of death, is interesting- how will he know then? Maybe he won't know until all 6 are gone and only the fragment in his body remains?
I still think Snape knows though. I think DD didn't necessarily trust Snape more than McGonagall but they have a different relationship- Snape is spying on the DEs for DD and presumably has some sort of mission/end goal- I can't imagine him saving Dumbledore's hand then not finding out what happened. Maybe he had to know the nature of the problem to make DD a potion for it, and DD would have had to tell him what exactly happened.
Artemis_Fowl_2 March 20th, 2007, 7:47 pm I would like to add: LV and "Lord Thingy" also refer to Lord Voldemort, and "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" or "HWMNBN" is another name people call him by, though it is far less common. :)
Thanks, LeiaShadow! I didn't even know about that last one!
Shamash March 21st, 2007, 12:04 am I still think Snape knows though. I think DD didn't necessarily trust Snape more than McGonagall but they have a different relationship- Snape is spying on the DEs for DD and presumably has some sort of mission/end goal- I can't imagine him saving Dumbledore's hand then not finding out what happened. Maybe he had to know the nature of the problem to make DD a potion for it, and DD would have had to tell him what exactly happened.
Oh for sure DD has a different relationship with McGongall & Snape but (and I am a believer that Snape is still on the good side), I think the Horcrux hunt is a matter that DD has discussed with only Harry, it is too important and it would be a big piece of information to give Snape as he is spying, if for some reason Snape should be discovered it could hinder DD’s search for them. I also think Snape must have a fair idea of what’s going on as he helped cure DD’s hand and needed to have info on the wound to cure it, also he is a Death Eater and would probably have put two and two together as to the means that Voldemort took to prevent death… so yeah Snape may have a good idea, but I don’t think DD told him, nor that Snape has any details specific to the hunt for the Horcruxes
Wright1771 March 21st, 2007, 10:10 am No, otherwise he'd have a never ending supply!
TDawg_0016 March 21st, 2007, 11:09 pm Thanks for the quote I forgot the exact section. Yes, we have Dumbledore's belief that he can't feel it so we can assume that is fact I suppose. I still think it's strage though and I hope more about it is explained in DH. That doesn't really explain why he doesn't know when a Horcrux is stolen though, when someone penetrates the protection he has around them. You're right though it is probably arrogance on his part and could lead to his eventual downfall.
The bit I bolded, about knowing at the point of death, is interesting- how will he know then? Maybe he won't know until all 6 are gone and only the fragment in his body remains?
I believe that Voldemort does not know and will not know, because any knowledge he gains of his destroyed horcruxes before the final showdown will simply give him time to create more if he wished to. If it was a matter of life and death, Voldemort would stop with his obsession with relics and such, kill someone and carry the horcrux with him in what I believe is a magical cloak (with a spell much like the mirror of Erised, or the Sorting Hat, which produced the sword), so that even if an Adava Kedavra killed him, the horcrux would be safe and he would still be living. this would pose an identical problem as we have encountered throughout the series (fear of voldy coming back) and wouldn't solve anything. so i believe that he will find out in *** conversation that will inevitably occur during the final battle (like in the graveyard the first time in GoF).
DiMakir March 21st, 2007, 11:19 pm In my opinion, I do not think that he knows of the hunt for the horcruxes, however, he knows of the diary's destruction.
"I was told that his anger was terrible to behold" - Or something to that general effect is how Dumbledore describes Voldemort's reaction tot his news.
So, with this in mind, perhaps he will check upon his remaining horcruxes for security reasons or perhaps it will continue to be blinded by his own arrogance and the fact that the only one he ever feared is no longer a threat.
My two cents... :-)
Sile March 21st, 2007, 11:48 pm I agree LV is a very arrogant person he would believe now that DD is gone that the only person who would have any idea about a horcrux is dead. He would feel secure in the fact and not bother to check. Also he would think the DD wouldn't realise that the diary was a horcrux
dobbyelf123 March 21st, 2007, 11:58 pm I don't think Voldemort knows yet, but I do think he'll find out soon. Maybe even with a few left to go, instead of just one.That would complicate things for Harry (well,yea!) and who knows what he'd do?
Vampire_Girl March 22nd, 2007, 7:58 pm He'll find out if he doesn't know already. I can't see him just forgetting about something so important until its too late. He may be self-centred enough to think that no one could get through his traps, but he canm't be so idiotic that he doesn't keep some kind of update on his horcruxes.
ToriPains102 March 23rd, 2007, 1:28 am Voldemort has to know. If harry can see his dreams, what he is doing, and Voldemort is controlling his mind, then wouldnt when the where in the cave Voldemort must have known. He would have got it from harrys mind.
LeiaShadow March 23rd, 2007, 1:34 am Voldemort has to know. If harry can see his dreams, what he is doing, and Voldemort is controlling his mind, then wouldnt when the where in the cave Voldemort must have known. He would have got it from harrys mind.
UHHH....since when was Voldie controlling Harry's mind??! I thought we established that he wasn't! I thought Harry and Dumbledore and Snape all confirmed that Voldie wasn't spying on things through Harry and not not not controlling Harry's mind!
There is a part in Book 5 when Snape is explaining Occlumency to Harry, during the first Occlumency lesson. Harry says something like, "then can't he be seeing what's going on right now? sir?" I don't remember what Snape says though...someone help me here...
nicloetje March 23rd, 2007, 1:57 am 'So he could know what we're thinking tight now? Sir?
- 'The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms to ensure the bodily and mental safety of those who dwell within them,' said Snape. 'Time and space matter in magic, Potter.
There you go LeiaShadow :cool:
As for my contribution/opinion.I think that he does not know (yet).
Dumbledore would have worked with extreme caution and constant vigilance. As far as we know four trustworthy characters know about the hunt: Dumbledore, Harry, ROn and Hermione. The first is that, the others are on the same team and have proven that they can be trusted.
One thing that bugs me though: the memories from who DUmbledore collected them, in particular Slughorn. Of course, he would never mention his suspicions and come up to them: Look, I suspect Voldemort split his soul and placed 6 pieces in precious objects. Do you happen to have interesting information?
Since some are dead or have no clue (i.e. the woman from the orphanage), so they would never be able to spread word of Dumbledore searching in Voldemorts past. Remember, even among wizards very few know that Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle. They would never link it.
Some on the forums suggest that Snape knows about it, I disagree. The information does a) not concern him b) he would have no interest in knowing, at least for the bigger picture c) the information could reach Voldemort through him, risking Severus' life.
The only one who could turn out to be a problem is Slughorn. He knew about the Horcruxes and the memory he gave to Dumbledore/Harry. Also, he is a very intelligent man, he might have his suspicions... Let's hope the Death Eaters don't find him!
LeiaShadow March 23rd, 2007, 2:11 am 'So he could know what we're thinking tight now? Sir?
- 'The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms to ensure the bodily and mental safety of those who dwell within them,' said Snape. 'Time and space matter in magic, Potter.
There you go LeiaShadow :cool:
As for my contribution/opinion.I think that he does not know (yet).
Dumbledore would have worked with extreme caution and constant vigilance. As far as we know four trustworthy characters know about the hunt: Dumbledore, Harry, ROn and Hermione. The first is that, the others are on the same team and have proven that they can be trusted.
One thing that bugs me though: the memories from who DUmbledore collected them, in particular Slughorn. Of course, he would never mention his suspicions and come up to them: Look, I suspect Voldemort split his soul and placed 6 pieces in precious objects. Do you happen to have interesting information?
Since some are dead or have no clue (i.e. the woman from the orphanage), so they would never be able to spread word of Dumbledore searching in Voldemorts past. Remember, even among wizards very few know that Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle. They would never link it.
Some on the forums suggest that Snape knows about it, I disagree. The information does a) not concern him b) he would have no interest in knowing, at least for the bigger picture c) the information could reach Voldemort through him, risking Severus' life.
The only one who could turn out to be a problem is Slughorn. He knew about the Horcruxes and the memory he gave to Dumbledore/Harry. Also, he is a very intelligent man, he might have his suspicions... Let's hope the Death Eaters don't find him!
Thanks. :)
As for your suspicions of Slughorn....I don't think he would willingly divulge the information. He was extremely ashamed of what he knew--that he knew of such a horrible, ghastly thing, that he knew enough to supply information to young Tom Riddle. Dumbledore couldn't get it from him. Slughorn, as DD says, probably keeps a Veritaserum antidote on him at all times. I think that it would be possible for the information to be tortured out of him, but I do not think that he would betray Dumbledore very willingly, or willingly admit to knowing something that he is very ashamed of. He and DD were good friends, we learned that at the beginning of Book Six. Yes Slughorn has his weaknesses. No, he would not admit to such a thing.
He is not going to give information to the Dark Side. He was not a fan of Lily's death, we know how much he valued her and regretted her death. He would not just go and give her killers some information, even if he thought it was worthless information. He was hiding out from the DEs, remember? He would not tell Voldemort anything! (not willingly, anyway)
lil_miss_panic March 27th, 2007, 4:15 pm I think this is a very important question. My theory is that DE do know about the horcruxes but I think each DE he did tell about them only told them he made one. Meaning that Lucis thought he had the only one or Belltrix think they know about the only one. It plays on LV plan to think each DE is special when in fact he cares about none of them. Assuming the theory is correct I have to believe that Snape knew about them and I also believe that DD told Snape about the hunt when the whole blackened hand came up during the summer. So if indeed Snape is working for LV he would be quick to tell him what Harry is doing. So if we get the impression as we have so far that LV has no idea the horcruxes are being destroyed that would be yet another reason to add to the Snape is good theory. I do think for the time being then that he has no idea. His ego has him thinking they are well hidden and protected and no one would be able to find them. After all he has always under estimated DD even if he fears him.
Half_Blood26 March 27th, 2007, 6:05 pm If a Horcrux is destryed, then won't Voldemort feel or sense it?
Because someone has just killed a part of his soul, and I think that one might feel it, so then he will know that Harry is hunting for them.
LeiaShadow March 28th, 2007, 12:19 am If a Horcrux is destryed, then won't Voldemort feel or sense it?
Because someone has just killed a part of his soul, and I think that one might feel it, so then he will know that Harry is hunting for them.
Harry asks that exact question. He's talking to Dumbledore about horcruxes.
" 'Does Voldemort know when a Horcrux is destroyed, sir? Can he feel it?' Harry asked, ignoring the portraits.
'A very interesting question, Harry. I believe not. I believe that Voldemort is now so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of him have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do. Perhaps, at the point of death, he might be aware of his loss . . . but he was not aware, for instance, that the diary had been destroyed until he forced the truth out of Lucius Malfoy.' " (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, American hardcover edition, page 507-508)
There you go. He can't feel it. If Dumbledore says so, then it's true.
HGHPRW March 28th, 2007, 12:43 am Unless he figured out what Dumbledore was doing in HBP, I'd say no because:
Harry asks that exact question. He's talking to Dumbledore about horcruxes.
" 'Does Voldemort know when a Horcrux is destroyed, sir? Can he feel it?' Harry asked, ignoring the portraits.
'A very interesting question, Harry. I believe not. I believe that Voldemort is now so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of him have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do. Perhaps, at the point of death, he might be aware of his loss . . . but he was not aware, for instance, that the diary had been destroyed until he forced the truth out of Lucius Malfoy.' " (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, American hardcover edition, page 507-508)
There you go. He can't feel it. If Dumbledore says so, then it's true.
This proves he doesn't feel it.
I don't think he'd risk stopping his Occumelcy to see what Harry was doing, if, which I doubt, he can "see" Harry like Harry used to be able.
I don't think he checks up on his horcruxes very often, because I don't think that the lake and the Horcrux had been touched since R.A.B. so if he didn't know about that, he won't check and find the other ones missing.
I don't think Snape told anyone the exact nature of how and what Dumbledore's injury was to anyone, he can conceal thoughts from Voldy.
So, I don't think Voldemort knows about the hunt unless he forced it out of someone, Snape told him, or he visited a place where they used to be and it wasn't there.
Saint_Potter April 14th, 2007, 10:56 pm I wonder if Voldemort even knows it was his horcruxes that saved him. Remember he inferred there were multiple "experiments" when trying to achieve immortality. Does Voldemort know if was the horcruxes that did the trick, or does he still not know?
LeiaShadow April 14th, 2007, 11:23 pm I wonder if Voldemort even knows it was his horcruxes that saved him. Remember he inferred there were multiple "experiments" when trying to achieve immortality. Does Voldemort know if was the horcruxes that did the trick, or does he still not know?
He made so many horcruxes, though. That implies to me that he was confident that those would be the things to save him if he gets "killed". Dumbledore seemed to think that Voldie was making horcruxes pretty recently (he said something like, "I believe that when he used Nagini to kill an old muggle man the thought occured to him to use her as a horcrux", and the incident I think DD was referring to in that scene took place in GoF). If he was making them as late as GoF, then he was probably thinking "oh, look, it was the horcrux that saved me from being killed by that backfired A-K, so let's make some more". I'm sure he knows. He is very confident.
Saint_Potter April 15th, 2007, 1:46 am He made so many horcruxes, though. That implies to me that he was confident that those would be the things to save him if he gets "killed". Dumbledore seemed to think that Voldie was making horcruxes pretty recently (he said something like, "I believe that when he used Nagini to kill an old muggle man the thought occured to him to use her as a horcrux", and the incident I think DD was referring to in that scene took place in GoF). If he was making them as late as GoF, then he was probably thinking "oh, look, it was the horcrux that saved me from being killed by that backfired A-K, so let's make some more". I'm sure he knows. He is very confident.
I'm sure he believed that it would, I was just wondering since he made the statement. He seemed pretty unsure of which experiment worked.
harpreet April 17th, 2007, 2:16 pm Im going to say no, simply because i think that harry has enough to do in DH to locate and destroy the horcruxes without additional security voldemort may place on the horcruxes if he was aware of the hunt. Harry clearly cannot contest with voldemort outright and if voldemort made an effort to protect his horcruxes, then harry's game is up. The only way he can destroy voldemorts horcruxes is with some sort of upperhand, this being blissful ignorance by our Dark Lord as to what the hell harry is doing. Voldemorts going to be caught unawares, no doubt about it. I think that voldemort will cotton on to the hunt by a tip off from a traitor by the time the penultimate horcrux is destroyed, and there will be a chase to see who can get to the last horcrux first. Thats what the final battle will take place over, the final horcrux.
Im going to try to develop this slightly. If we assume voldemort is never told about the hunt, then it means that severus snape hasnt told him about it. Now, this can either be down to the fact that snape doesnt know about it, or that he does and hes not telling because his is good. So, the more important question is whether snape knows about the horcrux hunt. If he does, then he is on the good side because he has successfully witheld this info from voldemort using occlumency. If he doesn’t know about it, then his allegiances are still a mystery.
Going further into the realm of guesswork, as Dumbledore put it so neatly, im pretty sure that snape has deduced what Dumbledore has been up to in his last year. After all, he did heal dumbledores hand from a terrible curse. As only snape could, hes going to put two and two together and realise dumbledores been dealing with dark curses, and the fact that he’s scarred is because hes come up against the darkest curses of them all that can be conjured only by the darkest wizard alive, voldemort. No doubt snape will have questioned dumbeldore where he was, and dumbledores trusts snape with dumbledores guesses on what he thinks voldemorts been up to: i.e. horcruxes. He could have filled him in later in the year when harry verifies that it is horcruxes with slughorns memory.
So, snapes innocent, he knows all about the horcrux hunt, and voldemort remains oblivious to the fact that 6/7 of him is now dead.
dasfres April 18th, 2007, 8:21 am I agree that Voldemort would not be aware of the destruction of his horcruxes as shown by Dumbledore's quote (see above).
However, I do feel that Voldy would be aware if Harry is destroying them. Harry has proven to be very bad at Occlumency. Therefore, he has difficulty keeping Voldy out of his mind. We know that Harry used to get into Voldy's brain from Hogwarts, and I doubt that there is little preventing the reverse. Even though Voldy has been doing a better job at blocking Harry from his Voldy's mind, Harry can do little to keep Voldy out of Harry's mind, except for improving his occlumency.
Snape's comment about being too far away seems irrelevant here. Snape may not realize it, but the connection between Harry and Voldy is much stronger than the magic that Snape is used to. In fact, Snape may not even realize just how strong the Voldy-Harry connection is.
Artemis_Fowl_2 April 18th, 2007, 6:41 pm For those for whom English is not your first language, "Voldy" refers to "Lord Voldemort." Remember the rules about abbreviations!
However, I do feel that Voldy would be aware if Harry is destroying them. Harry has proven to be very bad at Occlumency. Therefore, he has difficulty keeping Voldy out of his mind. We know that Harry used to get into Voldy's brain from Hogwarts, and I doubt that there is little preventing the reverse. Even though Voldy has been doing a better job at blocking Harry from his Voldy's mind, Harry can do little to keep Voldy out of Harry's mind, except for improving his occlumency.
Snape's comment about being too far away seems irrelevant here. Snape may not realize it, but the connection between Harry and Voldy is much stronger than the magic that Snape is used to. In fact, Snape may not even realize just how strong the Voldy-Harry connection is.
I think you make a very good point. Voldemort may be able to find out about the hunt by "entering" Harry's mind.
Chris April 18th, 2007, 7:09 pm I doubt Lord Voldemort is aware of the horcrux hunt. Like many have said, he's not aware of the destruction of a horcrux. Additionally, Dumbledore really compartmentalized the information - only a few people on his end know.
Also, there was no "living" protection at the cave. Yes, the horcrux was a fake, but I think that if Lord Voldemort (LV) was aware of the hunt, he'd have dispatched a sentinal to the cave entrance. He would have told said Death Eater (DE) to guard the cave, but not told the DE what was in the cave.
My final reason is literary. If LV becomes aware of the horcrux hunt too early (yes, he'll find out eventually, but probably only when Nagini's targeted), he may try to make more. Deathly Hallows isn't 2000 pages, so I don't think the trio has time to go searching for additional horcruxes :).
twiggles April 18th, 2007, 8:04 pm As many others have already pointed out, Dumbledore (who is usually reliable) did not believe that Voldemort was aware when a horacrux was destroyed and that is good enough for me. I don't believe that Dumbledore would have told Snape about the horacrux, not because of trust issues but because he was very careful about what he tells to anyone. He trusted Harry but often withheld information. He was very much a need to know man and I believe he would not have felt that Snape needed to know. Even though Snape is superb at occulemency, acting as a double agent is a danger job and there are other ways to obtain information.
Voldemort obviously knows of the diary but has no idea that anyone knew what it was. He probably had some concerns about Dumbledore finding out what it was but as time passed with no obvious action, he may have thought that he was safe.
The issue of Slughorn is interesting. He definitely would not go to Voldemort and tell him about revealing the memory but as Voldemort is the suspicious type, he may worry of what Slughorn told Dumbledore upon his return to Hogwarts.
I believe it is true that Voldemort does not know of the search but with Dumbledore gone and much of Harry's protection gone with him and Harry coming of age, it is now open season on Harry Potter. It will be difficult for Harry to carry out his search in secret.
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