NT #44 - The Crux of it All

Discussion for the North Tower #44 - The Crux of it All (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt44.shtml).

First to post again!??

Wonderful editorial, Maline. As usual, you're worth waiting for.

I love your theories, especially the decoys. The scar being a horcrux is a wonderful explanation of all the strange things it does. OTOH, it could just be some kind of non-horcrux connection with Voldemort with its own purpose in the plot. And Nagini as a horcrux, while appealing, has its problems.

Oh, I can't wait for the Book 7 just to answer all these questioins. At the same time, I don't want it to be over. Altogether too much fun along the way!

hey maline! glad you're back...i really liked this editorial--it's the first one i've read in a while, and it really got me thinking about the next HP book. in your article, in the 6th(i think) paragraph, you say that there are really EIGHT horcurxes, but you counted the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux as two separate horcruxes, whereas in the book, it says "someting of Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw's". just had to point that out :)
i too, was intrigued by how the soul-splitting actually worked after reading HBP. i don't think horcruxes form by themselves, but it is interesting to think that Voldemort may not have intended for harry to become a horcurx...it would make a nice twist. however, i still think that what Jo has told us so far about Voldemort's soul situation through Dumbledore is pretty accurate, because Dumbledore is usually always right. In HBP, Dumbledore says that there are no remaining heirlooms of Gryffindor's, save the sword (and possibly the Hat), so it would make a nice twist if Harry was the horcrux representing Gryffindor. However, that would mean that there was no horcrux representing Ravenclaw, which would be unfair. I'm still skeptical about the Harry-is-a-horcrux theory, but I am willing to keep an open mind about it. :) i look forward to reading more of your stuff, soon!

oh, and one more thing (if my post wasn't already long enough)... i would LOVE it if you could come on MuggleCast (http://www.mugglecast.com/). I think you have a lot of great ideas, and lovely insight into the books, and i would love to hear you talk about it.

When I saw there was a new North Tower, I was unbelievably excited. I mean, when was the last time - before Christmas? (Note: I just checked, it was actually beginning of October.) At any rate, a marathon of a hiatus, and with the general lack of editorials lately, it was an exciting moment.

To quote Voldemort: "I confess myself disappointed."

It's not that I reject the idea of Harry as a Horcrux. I'm not quite sure what I think about it, to be honest. The evidence is all there for it - I just expect more from Jo. Thus, I was highly disappointed when I read this article. It really wasn't anything special for me.

Maybe I've gotten too used to the cliffhanger excitement of Brandon of the Underground Lake (THE WHEELS ARE IN MOTION), or the revolutionary ideas of Lady Lupin. But this brought up a heavily-discussed topic (dead horses, as they are called by some) and argued it with the same points we have heard time and time again. There were no new perspectives to examine, no interesting angles to ponder, and now that I look back on it, not a single quote from the book. The latter is not necessarily negative - not all editorials have to use quotes - but it did shock me.

Maline, I'm more than glad to have you back. I was just expecting something better.

Hey GLAD you're back! And I really did enjoy this editorial. Even though I disagree with a lot of what you said you still said it convincingly! But I have to agree (in part) with The Obsessor, this topic is a bit of a dead horse but I don't think you could really have continued with your column WITHOUT doing an editorial on the horcruxes! It's probably the most imporatant topic in the series

I'm so excited to see something new! I agree that HBP leaves everyone with more questions than answers. A fitting move considering it brings with it a high anticipation for number seven.

I personally am not a big fan of the Harry=Horcrux theory but at the same time it is so appealing. I mean looking at it symbolically Harry epitomizes Griffindor just as Voldy does Slytherin. The ring, the diary, the locket, the cup, something of Ravenclaw, Voldy (Slytherin), and Harry (Griffindor) being the seven horcruxes with the snake serving as a decoy rocks.

I've questioned the snake's role as number seven for a while. This is Voldy's ultimate plan here. Killing Harry (the one who is supposed to vanquish him) to make a horcrux would fit Voldy's idea of grandness perfectly. I really don't like the snake serving as a horcrux it makes it seem as if Voldy is playing it safe (something I think he is too arrogant to do) and its a little boring. Why use an old man to turn your snake into a horcrux when you can wait a little longer and use Harry to make a the perfect seventh. After all there are still six soul pieces to keep him safe (or so he thinks *GO HARRY*) until he confronts Harry once and for all. What if he already has something (of Griffindor's maybe???) that he plans to change into a horcrux and is simply waiting to kill Harry to do it? Or what if he is working on getting Griffindor's sword to use it as his seventh? I like this idea because it fits with the idea of the horcruxes relating to the four suits of tarot. We would have to assume Ravenclaw's item is a wand though.

All of this makes us question the validity of Dumbly's information. Are we taking it for granted that Dumbledore is ALWAYS right? Or is he correct in assuming Voldy made seven horcruxes and that the snake is one of them. Jo does a good job of throwing us off the scent. As I said HBP leaves you with more annoying questions.

Anyway glad to see your back! Life has a funny way of taking up your time. Curious as to your thoughts on RAB? I hope we hear from you again soon.

I think back to the times of reading OOTP and the locket section, the locker wasn't opened and while they tried to open it, I'm thinking don't do it leave it alone. That is probably the horcruxe and RAB didn't take care of it. I think only a parselmouth can open it safely. I also think that inside the locket is instructions on how to use the chamber of secrets written in parseltongue.

I happen to agree that Harry is the Gryffindor horcrux. But, I don't think it was accidental. Don't we know (I've forgotten the source) that to create a horcrux, there must be a spell that is used? Harry's would have been a very important death if the Avada Kedavra hadn't rebounded on Voldy since he(LV) was trying to destroy the child born to vanquish him. It seems to me that Voldemort would have prepared the spell and the receptacle whatever it was going to be. Unfortunately for him, the Avada Kedavra rebounded on him and stripped him of a body. Question: how did his soul fragment enter baby Harry? Was Harry the intended receptacle? Did LV's soul part enter Harry because he was right there? And, how will Harry get rid of that piece of LV's soul? Lot's to think about still.

Nice to see you write again! But I do have to say although you make some good points, I am not convinced on the theory of Harry=Horcrux by accident. Professor Slughorn says there is an incantation or spell (not completely sure of the wording, don't have my book with me) that is performed in order to create the Horcrux. I don't think it can be done by accident. But good job anyway!

I agree with you with mostly everything (i just have the qualm with the ravenclaw object, i just dont think that it exists, BUT if it does, my bet is the opal necklace, and maybe snape would know about the horcruxes from having handled it and the dumbledore hand fiasco)
But mainly i would like to direct your attention to the fact, that it was at the end of the 5th book that Voldemort realised he shared a soul fragmant with harry. After possessing him, and finding a shard of soul in harry, which could be affected by emotion, and voldemort being a tough guy, who doesnt like to cry, or die, he immeadiately left harry, with a different state of mind. He realised that to kill harry it would be to limit his survival. Harry was to be only for voldemort, a command given to death eaters, and spoken by snape at the end of the half blood prince. Tell me they couldnt have knocked harry out at that point and dragged him to voldemort, and let him be killed? Nope voldemort has made harry untouchable for the deatheaters. Thats jsut not normal voldemort behaviour.......harry can still be tortured for fun and not die!

This explains why voldemort has been avoiding thought sharing, to prevent harry from realising the full magnitude of the connection.
Now i know it sounds like voldemort doesnt want harry dead, he does oh yes, but he has hit a snag, and the harry the little thwarter of get evil quick schemes, will now have to be turned into a cohort, voldemort will try to turn harry evil, and with dumbledore out of the way, he will be alll the more vulnerable in voldemorts snakey eyes.
so thats my explanding on your idea of voldemort knowing!!

Nice editorial.

I don't completly agree with you, i do think that the snake is a horcrux, because of the 'but in essence divided' thing.

But i do think he accidently made Harry a horcrux and that's why he has eight horcruxes and not seven.

And yeah, the main reason i believe that Harry is a horcrux is because of the drama:lol:

Really, what I didn't agree with is the process of horcrux formation. Slughorn seems to imply that it's pretty deliberate - there's a spell for it. It just doesn't seem likely to me that it an be done accidentally. Also, the timesaving premise doesn't seem very likely to me either. I feel like the horcrux hunt will primarily be figuring out where/what the horcrux is, but not the actuall hunt (which will be accomplished through apparition). But a scar horcrux would take just as long to figure out.

Interesting theory. I don't really agree with the Harry=horcrux theory and here is the main reason why: I think creating a horcrux needs to be a very intentional process. Something filled with so much dark magic can't happen accidentally, otherwise every time a witch or wizard committed murder, a horcrux would be created. Therefore, I find it hard to believe that Harry became an accidental horcrux when Voldy's Avada Kadavra rebounded (Although I realise this isn't quite the theory you presented) The mian hole in the theory as you presented it is that, according to Slughorn, a horcrux can only be created when you commit a murder. If we follow your argument that a soul splits everytime a murder is committed, then yes it is possible that Voldy's soul split once when he killed James (and then returned to him) and again when he killed Lily (and returned to him), but it cannot have split for a third time that night, because Voldy only attempted to kill Harry. He did not "commit" a murder, therefore no soul fragment split off that time. Unless he created a Horcrux from Harry with Lily or James' murder, I find it very hard to believe that Harry could be a Horcrux.

Good theory, and interesting house parallels, but that hole needs to be ironed out (at least for me) before this theory works.
Hope I made sense!

Hey Maline! Good to see you back and writing! I've missed your editorials all these months you weren't around!

Anyway, I didn't really agree so much with the "Harry/Harry's Scar is the last horcrux" theory last time. Actually, I still don't really agree but I won't deny that your argument was quite convincing! I do agree with you that the scenario you outlined for the "final showdown", so to speak, would be really dramatic and full of symbolism and just wonderfully symmetrical. It is likely, if you think about it one way, but also unlikely if you think about it another way. Lots of If's there, like you said, and loads of speculation, questions and general uncertainty about things.

By the way, like aizan19 pointed out, you mentioned
there are really EIGHT horcurxes, but you counted the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux as two separate horcruxes, whereas in the book, it says "someting of Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw's".

I can see where you are coming from though... but I think what Harry really meant was eight possibilities of horcruxes, if he includes both something of Gryffindor's and something of Ravenclaw's as well as Nagini.

I also didn't think of the fact that if he had made seven horcruxes, there would in fact be 8 parts of his soul so thank you for pointing that out.

Anyway, even though this editorial of yours was a bit of a "dead horse" discussion because it's been discussed endlessly since HBP came out, I don't blame you because you did say you haven't really sorted out all the new information that was thrown at us in HBP. The thing about HBP is that JKR gives us so much more new information and yet conceals a lot too! So we get many new half-formed pictures... It was a bit disappointing this time to see a discussion of an old theory that's been discussed countless times already but thank you anyway for taking the time to write it. I'm just really glad you're back and writing again! :D

Nice editorial, i like all the soul-splitting biz.
sorry if someone's already said this, haven't read all of the forum, but i hav two points:
im pretty sure harry's looking for something of gryffindor's OR ravenclaw's, not both. am positive that's wat dumbles says anyway.
and also, if voldemort didn't actually kill harry in godric's hollwo (which we know he didn't obviously), and only avada kedavra-ed him, then would his soul really split?
but i agree, harry's scar's a horcrux (james or lily's death perhaps), soooo exciting! and good point, there could have been 'something of gryffindor's' at godric's hollow that voldemort used, it would make sense.
this would then mean that harry's looking for something of ravenclaw's, the locket, the cup and possibly nagini as voldemort may not know harry's a horcrux (=8 horcruxes, not v magical)
sigh... how many days to go??

even i think that voldemort didn't kill harry so it couldn't actually split his soul...but lily or james killing could have split his soul
everything that JKR says in her books has some importance.Godric's hollow sharing its name with the founder of gryffindor house is very significant.
i think that harry being a horcrux is a possiblity....it would twist the story even further.
as in the first book harry had to kinda sacrifice ron,ron may have to peform the hardest task of his life in the seventh book..........
if voldemort doesnot know that harry is a horcrux then he must have created 8 as he didn't count harry...
m awaiting the last book like anything.......

Congratulations, Maline, on your new job and all the other new and exciting things in your life. I agree that JK put some red herrings in HBP. I think that Nagini is a red herring. I like the idea that RAB already destroyed the horcrux in the locket. It seems like something JK would do. I agree that the horcrux count may also be a red herring and somehow there is a twist there.

I found out when HBP came out that I was wrong about some things and right about others. I know that will be true of book 7. So I am in the Harry is not a horcrux group. And I think that Dumbledore would have noticed if there was a horcrux staring at him every time he looked at Harry.

I think back to the times of reading OOTP and the locket section, the locker wasn't opened and while they tried to open it, I'm thinking don't do it leave it alone. That is probably the horcruxe and RAB didn't take care of it. I think only a parselmouth can open it safely. I also think that inside the locket is instructions on how to use the chamber of secrets written in parseltongue.

And exactly what is you evidense for that? I mean, as far as we know, you can't write parseltounge....

Hey Maline
Great Editorial.
I wonder if you guys have read the revision to the changeling hypothesis on redhen website. You can find it here:
http://www.redhen-publications.com/Changeling.html

It is long, but worth reading. After reading it I for one was convinced that the probability of Harry being a Horcrux is quite high. The point used in this hypothesis is that a "spell" has to be used to create the Horcrux which is the same spell to kill the person to put things in motion. And that is NOT the Avada Kedavra curse. Slughorn clearly says "there is a spell".
I can't believe just the act of killing by Avada Kedavra or other means other than this "spell"(whatever it is) for creating a Horcrux can split the soul. As mentioned in the redhen article, then how can you explain the accidental killings or killing in self-defence? Harry definitely killed Quirell, did his soul split in 2? I don't think so.
But if there is one spell that splits the soul, kills a person and put the fragment of the soul in a prepared object then we can explain the scar on Harry's forehead. Because we have been told over and over that Avada Kedavra does NOT leave any marks on the victim. Plus we don't know exactly when Voldemort created his other Horcruxes and who were the people killed for that purpose, except for DD's speculations.

Anyway, read the reivsed redhen article. It is very good and things are explained there much better than what I am trying to say here.

Cheers.

A nice round editorial to welcome you back, Maline! I have been hanging out for the latest North Tower edition. It didn't really bring in any new ideas but you do have a way of summing things up.

The only thing you said that I really want to congratulate you on is your talk about drama and symmetry. People (and by people, I mean Potter fans and theorists) have begun to stop looking at the HP story for what it is - a book. JKR is a writer and I don't think anyone can soundly argue that she will not go for drama before she goes for scientific logic. She hasn't exactly been scientific so far.

That's the biggest Horcrux!Harry argument - this is a book and it has to go with a bang. None of the protests of "but Harry has to KILL Voldemort" and "Slughorn was saying it can't be accidental!" are truly solid when you remember that a story doesn't always follow the rules it has set for itself - it bends them like nobody's business, it breaks them if it has to. Maybe JKR has something even more dramatic in store, something even bigger than the Horcrux!Harry theory: but if she does, she's kept it very secret so far. So Horcrux!Harry remains the only (known) ending that will do the books any justice.

I think back to the times of reading OOTP and the locket section, the locker wasn't opened and while they tried to open it, I'm thinking don't do it leave it alone. That is probably the horcruxe and RAB didn't take care of it. I think only a parselmouth can open it safely. I also think that inside the locket is instructions on how to use the chamber of secrets written in parseltongue.

I dont know if the locket in #12 is the one they were looking for or not, but that is an interesting idea on how it could be opened if it is. I dont think that anything would be written in it though.


Good editorial, but I have one thing that confuses me. Voldermort didnt kill Harry when he tried to Avada Kadavra him, so his soul wouldn't have split. I doubt just doing the Avada Kadavra spell would split your soul, I pretty sure someone has to be killed.

Well Maline, though we haven't seen you for a while it is always re-assuring to see that the writers on mugglenet do have a life outside of Harry Potter congrads! Harry's scar could very well be a horcrux, it would be very dramatic. As to what the Horcruxes are though I find it hard to discredit Dumbledore. He is rarely if ever wrong on these things. If Dumbledore didn't enlighten Harry to an obvious possibility then he certainly hasn't done his job and becuase of the man Dumbledore was, I just can't believe it of him. However, the whole essence divided thing still sits at the back of my mind. Hmm...in the end though, I'm more inclined to go by Dumbledore's theory.

Gee did I even have a point of view there? This is what Modern AND Ancient history does to you - you can never have a bold point of view without looking at every bloody possiblitly. Oh well:lol:

Maline, it's good to hear from you again. It was your column that got me hooked on Mugglenet. Glad so much good stuff is happening for you now.

Of course Voldemort didn't kill Harry, but he killed Lily and James. Hence he had soul fragments to spare.

I wonder how accurate Slughorn is about Horcruxes (I'm thinking about the spell he says must be cast)? He is, after all, a Potions Master, not a Dark Arts one. True, when Dumbledore finally views the accurate memory, he doesn't say Sluggy's wrong . . . but I don't know that he would say that; I don't think teaching Harry the art of the Horcrux was on his daily planner. If Sluggy is right about the spell, it's still possible that Voldemort'd already said it so that he could kill, make the Horcrux instantly, and go.

I agree that Harry the Horcrux would make for a more dramatically gripping story than Harry the Destroyer of Random Objects Possibly Associated With the Hogwarts Founders. And I, too, would feel cheated if Hermione came gasping up at the last minute with an ancient spell entitled "How Someone With a Curse Scar Can Vanquish the One Who Created It."

Laughing so much at shewoman's last line that would be rather disappointing. Don't count on JKR to ruin the books like that. I'm faithful she has something great planned and we're probably all so far from the truth that if it were somewhere it would be in England and our guesses would be somewhere deep in Antarctica. I reckon the spell was needed because I think it would take a lot of skill to do it. Not every wizard can go and create a horcrux right? But say if his scar was a horcrux (even though it goes against my Dumbledore good-teacher theory) good old Voldy might have realised what was happening when the Avada Kedavra didn't work and might have quickly split his soul magically and randomly put it anywhere as a last ditch (well it probably wasn't anywhere he was probably aiming for Harry despite its possibly bad outcomes) hey when you're desperate you'll try anything. Anyway frankly I would love to find out more about the Hogwarts founders, especially Ravenclaw, whom JKR has not given us a lot of information about. The ravenclaw house at Hogwarts is a mysterious one and the fact that the final confrontation would not involve Hogwarts in some way would be somewhat disappointing, because any other random place wouldn't tie in. I think the founders are a lot more important than what we all give them credit for. I mean, the whole thing began at Hogwarts, it should end there too (we've only spent 90% of our time in the book there) OK I've had my rant. *Oh I love rants*

Maline,

So good to see you've written again!

I think hcnbedbugs has a good point. Also, as others have mentioned, Slughorn seems certain that the creation of a horcrux is a deliberate act.

Another thing that I kept thinking as I read your article - which may be splitting hairs, I admit - is that a "tear" is not the same thing as a "split". Murder forms a tear, which may or may not be used to make a horcrux. I got the impression that the soul isn't fragmented fully, just damaged. Then the damage can be extended (via a spell of some sort) to complete the tear and move the piece to a host object.

What I do love about this editorial is the idea that maybe Dumbledore didn't quite get it right. Maybe there are either more horcruxes (what's the plural, anyway?), or that one of the "known" horcruxes isn't really one. I think it would be an incredible moment if Harry defeats, say, Nagini only to realize that she wasn't even a horcrux. *shivers* That would be heart-wrenching, but wonderful to read.

Anyway, it's really good to see your work again. Yours are my favorites editorials! Thank you for taking the time to write them.

I think I'm in the minority, but I do think the snake is a horcrux. It is because of something voldemort said in the openning chapter of GOF that wasn't explained until HBP. It was something like - one more death and then my plan can begin.... or something like that. Then he personally kills the groundskeeper. This had been bothering me because other than Frank, he didn't kill anyone. And why would he want to kill Frank? If he needed to make a horcrux (to bring the total soul pieces to 7) before he faced Harry, this makes sense. At the time he didn't yet know the diary was gone. Which leaves me wondering about Amelia Bones' death. I think if there's a red herring, it is that by the end, Harry will have to destroy the horcrux that replaced the diary.

No I really do think that the snake could be a horcrux. I mean Dumbledore is just always right. I mean sure he's been wrong before (he's human like the rest fo us) but if Dumbledore says the snake is one then I believe him. An interesting point about Frank. Nagini was there at the time and he didn't even torture the poor guy first (I don't like torture at all people) but when Voldemort has the chance to be evil and cruel, he takes it. Yet he just killed poor Frank with a flick of his wand. Presumably the person in question does not have to be a wizard seeing as it is killing.

I'm only half-way through the editorial so far, but I just want to point out to Maline (in case she reads these threads) that she made a mistake. Harry doesn't think there are 7 horcruxes, only 6. If you reread carefully, you'll see he's saying, "the ring, the cup, the locket, the diary, Nagini, something of Gryffindor or Ravenclaw..." "Or", not "and". So, no worries that there are 8 pieces of soul, which isn't a magical number. There are only 7.

OK, that's my two cents, now I'll finish the editorial.

Thanks, Maline, for another great editorial. I chuckled at your introductory paragraph in which you said you felt as if you were walking through thick smoke.

It isn't thick smoke though: it's Peruvian Darkness Powder! And doesn't our favourite lady author know how to use it!!?

OK, I finished the editorial. I don't care for the idea of Harry as a Horcrux, but I can see why people like it, as it explains Dumbledore's statement that Voldemort "put something of himself" in Harry when he gave Harry the scar. A piece of soul would certainly qualify. On the other hand, if Horcrux-making is such an involved and unusual bit of magic-making, is it plausible that a Horcrux would just make itself by accident?

I also see another possibility for what happens to the chunks of soul that peel off when murder is commited but don't get put in a Horcrux. They could go into the world of the dead, ie the world behind the veil. That's what happens to a whole soul when a person dies (unless they stick around in ghost form) so why wouldn't it happen to the bits too? I don't like the idea of them sticking around. Is a serial killer going to have bits of his own soul orbiting him like planets in a solar system? :lol:

Welcome back Maline.

If you're willing to accept the Harry-is-a-Horcrux theory, and I too think that's the way the plot is going, then you hit on the single most important question: What does Voldemort know about his connection with Harry, and when did he know it?

I think we should take Dumbledore at his word that Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow with five Horcruxes and planned to make the sixth that night. So we can extrapolate what Voldemort might think about his Horcrux situation:

- He may believe that no Horcrux was made at Godric's Hollow. Potentially this would tempt him into making another one. If Harry's scar is also a horcrux, this would leave Voldemort with an unlucky 8-part soul instead of a lucky 7-part one.

- He may have realized that a 6th Horcrux was made at Godric's Hollow, but doesn't know what it is. His changed appearance upon his return in GOF would be one clue that he made a Horcrux after all. But 14 years is a long time, and by now, he has no way to figure out what object became the Horcrux or what happened to it subsequently.

- He realized at some point in OOTP or HBP that the 6th Horcrux is Harry. This puts him in a sticky spot, as he'll need to coopt Harry or sacrifice a 7th of his soul to destroy his enemy.

I think all of these have some good dramatic possibilities, and I won't hazard a guess about Jo's actual plan. But I very much agree with Shewoman's assessment of various ways the climax could go.

I agree that Harry the Horcrux would make for a more dramatically gripping story than Harry the Destroyer of Random Objects Possibly Associated With the Hogwarts Founders. And I, too, would feel cheated if Hermione came gasping up at the last minute with an ancient spell entitled "How Someone With a Curse Scar Can Vanquish the One Who Created It."

I'm not a fan of the Harry=Horcrux theory, but, like others have said, I understand why it's popular, and it does explain a lot of the connections between Harry and Voldemort.

I do really like your idea of decoy horcruxes though. It would definately add some depth to the simple search and destroy quest.

Someone brought up Harry killing Quirrel. This has been mentioned in other threads, but what about the difference between killing and murder? For example, killing being something out of self-defense, like Harry, or protection, whereas murder is preconceived and it is done merely out of want. If this is true, and there is a distiction, specifically in the wizarding world, then a horcrux could be created whenever there is a murder, not just a killing. Again, this is just another way of looking at the whole new horcrux senario.

Originally posted by drank
If you're willing to accept the Harry-is-a-Horcrux theory, and I too think that's the way the plot is going, then you hit on the single most important question: What does Voldemort know about his connection with Harry, and when did he know it?

I think Voldemort found out sometime during the OoTP. The fact that he possessed Harry makes it probabale. Remember in CoS, the diary Riddle tells Harry that after Ginny wrote enough in the diary and poured her soul into it, he, Riddle, could do the same and possess Ginny and make her do things.

Also in the OoTP he possessed the snake. The snake can still be a Horcrux even if Harry is one too (Diary, Ring, Locket, Hufflepuff's cup, Nagini, Harry, Voldemort himself), in that case it means he hasn't found anything of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor (unless you count Harry as Gryffindor).

It might be that you can't just go ahead and possess anyone at will. The host has to be compatible. I think Voldemort said so in the graveyard to his DEs.
What greater compatibility than having a piece of your soul in the person you are trying to possess?
Of course at the end, he found out that it's not that easy to possess Harry. Harry has his own soul too and the power of love in that soul is very strong.

This can also be the reason that "Potter belongs to the Dark Lord" as Severus Snape told the other DE at the end of HBP. Maybe Voldemort is worried about his soul fragment. He definitely did not intend to make a Horcrux out of Harry, the rebounding of the curse happened to do that.

Your theories are great, however I don't agree with the theory that Harry is an accidental horcrux. Maybe because I don't understand how it could possibly be an accident when I believe you have to physically have to make the horcrux. Plus this comment you made in your editorial:

"Meanwhile, the piece of soul that broke off when he Avada Kedavraed Harry has nowhere to go, because the host Voldy does no longer exist. The piece of soul then goes into Harry, the probably closest and definitely most receptive living host around, manifesting itself as a scar on his forehead."

A horcrux does not have to be a living host, the ring wasn't living and the journal wasn't as well. So that doesn't exactly fit. The horcuxes, or horcri, are all material things. At least Harry thinks so. - However, I just remembered Nagini, so who knows...

I'm sorry to disagree, but that is my opinion. No one can change my mind except for one person and one person only. We all know who that is and we have to wait to see what she writes.

Welcome back Maline. I’ve enjoyed your editorials. Having only begun and finished the series since the release of HBP, I really feel I need a pensieve to break free from the cloud of thick smoke. I’ve reread each of the books and listened to the works on audiobook while driving and doing chores with the result of putting even more theories in my head.

Red Hen’s revised Changling Hypothesis ([URL="http://www.redhen-publications.com/Changeling.html"]) seems the most valid Harry as a Horcrux theory that I’ve read. I don’t think Harry was the intended horcrux (the trophy should have been left somewhere in the wreckage of Godric’s Hollow) but he has nonetheless become one.
Not by AK, but by a separate horcrux generating curse that as Voldemort says “was deflected by the woman’s (Lily’s) foolish sacrifice, and it was rebounded upon myself.” (GoF pg653) I don't particularly like the Harry as a Horcrux theory but I can't figure how else so much of Voldemort could be in Harry unless he poured a little of his soul into Harry like he did with Ginny in CS 17.

But, I really like your Slytherin/Griffindor final battle theory. It would be the ultimate summation of the rivalry between the two houses. I can envision a duel between Voldemort and Harry with our Griffindor hero killing the physical being Voldemort and the love held by Harry vanquishing the remaining shred of Voldemort’s soul from it’s physical protector, Harry’s body.

By the way, I disagree that RAB has already destroyed the locket as it show no physical sign of destruction like the ring or the diary. Yappa1’s idea of parceltongue is intriguing although I doubt it is a written message rather than a spoke clue much like the voice records held in a hall of prophesy.

And I would not be surprised of those interesting coincidences with Zacharias Smith's last name and House led us to a recovered Hufflepuff’s cup.

Could that be a link to Dumbledore saying that scars can't be removed in PS/SS?

Ooh, bit of a correction... harry thinks there are SIX horcruxes at the end of HBP, something of Gryffindor's OR ravenclaw's

Welcome back Maline!

I'm not sure about Harry being a Horcrux. However, I can see an interesting way to deal with it. In PS/SS Snape talked about a potion that could put " a stopper on death". Harry could use such a potion to travel beyond the veil and return safely - minus the horcrux.

I firmly believe Harry will travel beyond the veil. Either for information or to perform a task. Destroying part of LV's soul is a valid task.

I like the six horcruxes idea as well (although it could be a twist as 7, if voldy made nagini one before he realized, assuming harry's scar is a horcrux).

I think JKR had Dumbledore suggest Nagini as a possible horcrux only to confirm that living creatures can be horcruxes. Dumbledore then says something to the effect of "but it would be a bad idea because you never know what living creatures will do." Is this perhaps a clue that Harry will throw himself (and Voldy) into the veil? Did Voldemort, who doesn't believe in love, try to purposefully make Harry a horcrux, since he can't concieve of anyone sacrificing himself? Interesting indeed

Another excellent theory. Hope it won't take so long again. The ideas in this editorial having been going in my head for a long time, so it's good to see that someone else is officially thinking along the same lines. The idea is that the final Battle of Souls and Heirs will either happen on a cliff, where he'll be looking for the last Horcrux apart from Voldie's or will happen at Godric's Hollow, after he feels something compelling him to return there.

LILY EVANS POTTER = I LOVE SLY PATTERN(S) :)

Here's an idea that might support Harry being a Horcrux...

Maybe Voldemort didn't intend on making Harry a horcrux, but accidentally did. Now he realizes what he has done (since in OotP he realized the connection). What if Voldemort doesn't mind that Harry is a horcrux because of what the prophecy said. Remember, Voldemort believes heavily in the prophecy (or else he wouldn't have acted on it so rashly). The prophecy says that "either must die by the hand of the other", so Voldemort believes that he is the only one who can "vanquish" Harry, therefore making Harry a safe horcrux in Voldemort's mind, as no one but Voldemort can destroy him.

It would definitely be interesting if Voldemort knows Harry is a horcrux. I'm just picturing a final battle where Harry is like "I figured out how to destroy your horcruxes!" and Voldemort is like "bet you didn't know you WERE one!"

hahaha...ok I'm done now =)

Harry definitely killed Quirell, did his soul split in 2? I don't think so.
Oh, but he didn't. Harry kill Quirrell, I mean. What killed Quirrell was that "He [Voldemort] left Quirrell to die; he shows just as little mercy to his followers as his enemies." (PS, UK paperback, p. 320)

Another thing that I kept thinking as I read your article - which may be splitting hairs, I admit - is that a "tear" is not the same thing as a "split". Murder forms a tear, which may or may not be used to make a horcrux. I got the impression that the soul isn't fragmented fully, just damaged. Then the damage can be extended (via a spell of some sort) to complete the tear and move the piece to a host object.

Excellent point, Alhanalasa! I think this distinction ties in with the distinction between unintentionally killing someone (in an accident or in self-defense) and cold-blooded murder. I believe that killing, taking the life of a human being, damages your soul and you'll never be the same afterwards. But not only doing it intentionally but also using it to create such an unnatural and evil thing as a Horcurx to ensure one's own immortality (thereby essentially living off the lives of others) - that's a whole different (and much more sinister) story.

Harry doesn't believe there's seven horcruxes at the end of book 6, he believes there's six. Maline was saying "something of gryffindor's, something of ravenclaw's," Harry was described as constantly thinking "the locket.....the cup.......the snake........something of gryffindors OR ravenclaw's..." add the ring and diary, and you have six horcruxes.

Ehy! Glad you're back!


I must admit, I love the symbolism. The only comment I didn't like was when you said that Lily and James probably had something of Gryffindor's on the mantel.
First of all, I thought Dumbledore said that there were no other known heirlooms of Gryffindor's? Now, he could be mistaken (like I honestly believe he is about Nagini), but that just doesn't seem to me to be something he would be mistaken about.

Also, wouldn't it be interesting if he did make 8 horcruxes on accident, rather than nine, because 8 is not a magically powerful number and it would have the opposite of Voldemort's desired effect?

Very intersting stuff........The Horcruxes are really fascinating as a plot device and pathway to Voldemort....and perhaps beyond?

The question I have is this: Does Voldemort know that Harry is clued in to his Horcruxes? Did Snape know the significance of Dumbledore's injury after he destroyed the Ring Horcrux? If Snape knows, then does Voldemort know? I would think not, but if Snape is that clever, and figures it out, then Harry is going to need all the loyalty and skill he can find in destroying whatever Horcruxes remain. And Jo has clued us in a bit when she states that the last word in the 7th book is " scar "....Perhaps it means that if Harry is a Horcrux and figures out how to destroy the bit of soul in him, the scar will disapear.

Glad you're back Maline! It's been so long! But it's nice to see that you do have a life outside Harry Potter!
The editorial may have been a bit of a "dead horse", but it did kind of put things in perspective, ie. what we know and what we don't know. I personally do believe the "Harry is a horcrux" theory, even though i'm not quite sure how it happened. I do think that there is a distinction between killing and murder, otherwise anyone who ever killed in self defense would have a damaged soul and I don't see that happening. Bellatrix makes it clear to Harry in the Dept. of Mysteries that just saying the curse won't work, you have to mean it. I don't believe that the soul totally splits when murder is committed, it just tears. Maybe that means that the spell to create a horcrux is a sort of two-part spell. The first part is done before Avada Kedavra is said (and meant). When the words are said the soul realises that it has to split completely. Then the person creating the horcrux does the second part of the spell to put the soul fragment in the intended object. But in Voldy's case, he couldn't complete the spell and so the soul fragment (somehow) entered Harry. That would kinda explain the accidental horcrux idea. I do think Voldemort was intending to use Harry's death to create the horcrux, but the question is what was he intending to use? Dumbledore says that the only remaing relic of Gryffindor is the sword (and possibly the hat) so I don't think there was anything at Lily and James' house, although it is an intriguing idea. I mean, it is called GODRIC's Hollow. That must have some significance.
I also do think that Nagini is a horcrux, and that it was created using Frank's death. Voldemort knew that the diary was destroyed and he wanted 7 horcruxes. Not knowing Harry was one, he used Nagini. That was at the beginning of Gof and I don't think he found out about Harry until he possessed him at the end of OotP. I think that Voldemort trying to lure Harry to the dark side might make for some interesting reading. I mean, we all know that he has some anger issues...
I also think that the final battle will take place at Godric's Hollow. It just seems right. But I do think we will see the Dept. of Mysteries and Hogwarts again. We have to see the school again. Maybe another visit to the Chamber of Secrets?

Well, they're my theories! I know it was a bit long, but there are a lot of things to try and figure out! Only Jo knows for sure, and we're all just going to have to wait. Personally, I hope we're all wrong and that JKR does something completely different that none of us expected. It would be kind of a letdown if we figured it out before the book was released!

Another interesting theory I've read is that the death of Amelia Bones was used to make a Horcrux. I think this would make sense, because Dumbledore told Harry in HPB that Voldemort found out that Lucius had given the diary to Ginny. If he figured out it had been destroyed, that would explain making a new Horcrux.

Great to have you back! Hermione's punishment was the editorial that got me addicted to Mugglenet in the first place, so I've been looking foreward to this editorial for months.

Anyway, on to the really fun part: analysis. (Can we tell I'm an English teacher in the making?)

Personally, I don't buy the "Harry-is-a-horcrux" theory (Dumbledore would surely have looked for something like that and removed the piece of soul on the missing day), but I definitely aggree with you about Nagini being a decoy. Like you said, it's very dramatic and a snake is definitely not Voldemort's style. We also have it straight from Dumbledore that it would be very risky to make a horcrux that can think for itself, and when it comes to the pieces of his soul, Voldemort doesn't take unnessesary risks. I prefer Lady Lupin's theory that the last horcrux was made when Voldemort killed Madam Bones.

That's it! I hope this makes some kind of sense, but my brain isn't quite functioning. I'm low on both sleep and caffine.

Yay! Maline you're back! I disagreed about a bunch of stuff but what i liked was how you brung(is that a word?) up voldy knowing whether harry is a horcrux or not...at first when people were saying he was, i disagreed because in all these books he's been trying to kill harry! but i suppose you could make horcruxes accidentally...hmm...but voldy doesnt know harry is a horcrux. if he is...i dont know how this fits but now i believe harry's scar is a horcrux but he's not gonna die in book 7. yea i agree that dumbledore was mistaken that Nagini is a horcurx. i just know it. im physic, you see, Im an expert at occulmency..or is it legilemency? (aahhhh spelling!! how do u spell it??? oh wel) well theres my 2 cents. :)

I loved the editorial! AND I am extremely happy to see that you came back and didnt abandon us forever!

The new post was very interesting. I'd never believed the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory until now.

That editorial was great! you convinced me in a way that was really scary, I had to stop reading because I think your theorie is kinda brilliant and very posible, and of course I don't want book 7 ruined for me hehe, that's how good I think your editorial was, Maline. I was on the Harry-isn't-a-horcrux-camp, but you explained the thing so well I think I switched sides...

If Harry is a Horcrux I'll set my books on fire and never worry about HP again. I also don't think a reason for a theory should be "because it would be cool". North Tower is getting really bad. Go read Spinners End.

If Harry is a Horcrux I'll set my books on fire and never worry about HP again. I also don't think a reason for a theory should be "because it would be cool". North Tower is getting really bad. Go read Spinners End.


It's not just Maline's theory; and her column isn't bad just because she has an opinion you don't agree with. She had more reasoning than "because it will be cool." Though not as thought provoking as her usual stuff, I did like this column, because the other "harry-is-a-horcrux" theorists haven't explained the theory nearly as well. Read North Tower and Spinner's End.

Wow, harsh beefkake67! Maline, glad to see you back and that your "Real Life" is going so well.

I thought your article was well written and had some intriguing ideas like Nagina being a red herring and there actually being 8 or 9 horcruxes (I don't put Dumbledore being wrong in the red herring category. As we've seen he has made many mistakes - I still haven't forgiven him for all that happened in OotP and his abandonment of Harry - yes I know he's not real -and Dumbledore himself has said, his mistakes tend to be huger than other peoples); I just have never really gotten behind the whole harry=horcrux theory. In all honesty the whole changeling hypothesis makes my head ache, but it would be cool to have it end the way you say, then again I'm hoping no one guesses or gets close to guessing as I want to be completely surprised by the twist (yes of course there's a twist).

Well, welcome back and I hope you find some inspiration to keep writing, as like many of the others it was your column that hooked me to mugglenet. Enjoy your new job and life with your beau.

It would be funny to see beefkake67 burn her/his books if it did turn out that way. I'm not sure if his scar is a horcrux or not, but in terms of the horcruxes I really do think we will see some of the 'random' searches of horcruxes. One will definitely by something of Ravenclaw's. I just get the sense that there is so much more to find out about Ravenclaw. We've gotten very little information about her and her house through out the entire series and I think we will finally find out more about her in book 7

I think I'm in the minority, but I do think the snake is a horcrux. It is because of something voldemort said in the openning chapter of GOF that wasn't explained until HBP. It was something like - one more death and then my plan can begin.... or something like that. Then he personally kills the groundskeeper. This had been bothering me because other than Frank, he didn't kill anyone. And why would he want to kill Frank? If he needed to make a horcrux (to bring the total soul pieces to 7) before he faced Harry, this makes sense. At the time he didn't yet know the diary was gone. Which leaves me wondering about Amelia Bones' death. I think if there's a red herring, it is that by the end, Harry will have to destroy the horcrux that replaced the diary.This is a good thought. I have always wondered what Voldemort meant when he said "one more death", so he may have been referring to his plan to make 6 horcruxes, rather than the plan to bring Harry to the graveyard.

There are a lot of reasons that I don't think that Harry is a horcrux, but one of them has to do with the basic themes that JK Rowling is presenting. Some of them are:
a. love is a more powerful force than hate (or evil)
b. page 511-US edition-HBP- "he (Voldemort) never paused to understand the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole."
c. it is our choices that make us what we are

She also is going to work the following into the story:
a. the gleam of triumph (GoF)
b. Wormtail's debt to Harry
c. from page 512-US edition-HBP- "But he understood at last what Dumbledore had been trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. ..... that there was all the difference in the world."
d. page 509- "It will take uncommon skill and power to kill a wizard like Voldemort even without his horcruxes."
e. page -510 - "he (Volemort) handed him (Harry) uniquely deadly weapons".

I just don't see how Harry being a horcrux fits into any of this. And in some cases, being a horcrux would be counter to the overall story. If Harry was a horcrux, he would not be an enemy, but someone to be kept safe.

As much as I hate to, I tend to agree with the Horcrux-Harry theory. I dismissed it at first. But the more I think about it and the more theories I read about it, I have to admit, it works pretty well. My biggest problem is that I just can't explain the transferrence of V's powers to Harry and the open channel into each others minds in any other way. I'm not going to speculate on HOW it may have happened, but I think if it did happen it would have to be an accident of some sort or on some level. It certainly couldn't have been deliberate, right? I hate the idea of Harry having to carry a piece of V around inside of him for the rest of his life, but if anyone has demonstrated the integrity and strength of character not to let it manipulate him from within and to harness it and use it for good, it's Harry.

SusanBones111 makes a very good point! JKR has SO many things to tie up! I totally forgot about Wormtail (he has been conspicuous only by his absence to quote JKR) but she has all these things to put together at the end. Harry as a horcrux would not tie in to 'making our own choices' i.e. he did not have a choice in the matter. Hmmm, thats just one point. There are so many more!

I agree with Susan Bones that there are a great many loose ends to tie together....Here are a couple of others:

The spell Dumbledore cast at Voldemort that was deflected by the shield in OOTP.

How was Grindewald Defeated?

The Missing Day.

The Half Blood Prince Potions Book.

By the way, I disagree that RAB has already destroyed the locket as it show no physical sign of destruction like the ring or the diary.


I agree RAB hasn't destroyed the locket. If we are correct that RAB is Regulus Black then I believe the answer to where the real locket is is in OOTP. If you look on page 116 (US edition) while they were cleaning out the glass-fronted cabinets in the drawing room there was a heavy locket that none of them could open. I believe that the locket is at Grimmauld Place unless it was amung the things that Mundungus took in HBP.

Most people do agree, with the locket residing in Grimmauld place. Harry will probably have to go back at some point because I don't believe that 'dung took it.

if the scar was a horcrux, harry would have to destroy himself to vanquish voldemort. i mean, you can't just destroy a scar. and i think harry'd have a tough time fighting voldemort if he were dead.

Also, if the scar--or Harry--were a horcrux, the prophecy would not be true. It says "Neither can live while the other survives." If Harry were a Horcrux, he would have to die for Voldemort to die. Rather, the prophecy says that one or must die for the other to live.

Another well constructed and intriguing editorial, Maline. I think yours are probably the most succint - and correct - summaries and conclusions about the horcrux business that I've read so far. (And welcome back!)

However, I do have a question for you, and for anyone else who might have the answer.... I tried to use the link from your ed to the "spirit quest" article on the Red Hen site you referenced. But the link only goes to the home page. After really digging to find the list of Potter articles I knew was there somewhere, I read through all the titles and couldn't find anything that looked like a "spirit quest" article. Can you let us know the exact title of the particular article you were referencing? I'd like to read it and there are way too many to read through to try to figure out which one you meant. Anyone else who knows.... could you please pass along the title?!

The only thing I found in your own ed that really didn't work for me (which means all the rest of it did!) was the comment that Harry was looking for something of Gryffindor's and of Ravenclaw's. I went back and reread the chapter "Horcruxes" and Dumbledore says he believes Gryffindor's sword is the only remaining artifact of GG's and that it is securely stored in his own office. That would mean that he believes Voldemort will not have been able to use a Gryffindor item, no matter how much he wanted to.

So your horcrux count could be off.... except with all that fog you mentioned, who can say for sure! :lol: Even if it is, that would lend still more creedence to the idea of Harry (and/or his scar) being a horcrux, because he's a Gryffindor, probably the most important one in ages, maybe of all time save the original. Add in the speculation that Harry may be a GG descendent and the "items associated with the founders" angle plays along nicely with Harry the Horcrux.

Sorry I don't have the time to read this whole thread, at least not right now. So my apologies if this has been covered already. :whistle: :rolleyes:

I don't think RAB destroyed the locket. I also believe that there's more to him then we might think. One of the most intriguing things Dumbledore said in HPB was on page 591-2, US edition: "He [Voldemort] cannot kill you if you're already dead...we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." This suggests that the Order has hidden people before, people who were thought to be dead. I believe the Order hid and protected Regulus, but didn't know he had a horcrux.

In the chapter "The Lost Prophecy" in OOTP, Dumbledore told Phinneas Negullus (or however it's spelled) that Sirius had died. He returned to his portrait in Grimmauld Place, and a few pages later, JKR informs us that "Phinneas Nigellus had still not returned..." I don't know why she'd mention this if it's not important in some way. Could this have something to do with Regulus?

If I'm wrong about that however, I have another theory: I think it's also possible that Aberforth has the locket. On page 245, HPB, US edition, Harry sees Mundungus with Aberforth, and Aberforth is described as drawing up his cloak and walking away as Harry, Ron, and Hermione approach. Perhaps Aberforth got the locket from Mundungus?
Maybe I'm dead wrong. But these could be important.

hi maline - wonderful to be reading your writings again - really missed the 'north tower' - I'm wondering if the whole 'horcrux' storyline isn't all a red herring - I think there's going to be something very surprizing to harry and company when he starts digging around godric's hollow - that missing 24 hours has lots of questions, but few answers - just a gut feeling, no real evidence to back it up - looking forward to your next editoral, hope it's not such a long wait :cool:

Glad to see you writing again. Hope all is well in your "other" life. I actually had to sign up in COS forums to say welcome back, we have missed your scholarly voice. I am another one who got hooked on Mugglenet bacause of the Editorials and I enjoy reading them.

Some great thoughts here. For a long while I 100% resisted the idea of Harry's scar being a Horcrux. After all, why would Dumbledore not realize this when the scar is the same shape as the lightning bolt mark on the ring? And if he did realize it, why would he not tell Harry? Maybe he thought Harry couldn't handle it. Although that would again go against the whole 'I'm going to tell you everything'. In HBP he told Harry all that he suspected about the Horcruxes. There's no way he'd leave out the part about Harry himself being a Horcrux.

Anyway, in order to make the story as dramatic as possible, Harry would need to be the final Horcrux. This would mean that he would have to DIE in order to destroy Voldemort, which is something that most people don't want, but if this theory's true it's something everyone has to get over.

Great to have you back Maline! I too agree that Nagini is probably a red herring and I think that it could possibly be to give us insight into the possibility that Harry is a horcrux. When telling Harry about the horcruxes, Dumbledore makes the comment that it is risky to put a piece of your soul into a living thing that can think and act for itself (not exact quote, but general idea). To me, this could be the reason that Nagini was mentioned...to give us the scoop on what could happen if a living thing is a horcrux. Why is it risky to have a piece of one's soul in a living thing? Can it begin to identify with the new hosts experiences? Imagine that this part of Voldemort's soul has lived in Harry for 16 years, it would relate itself to Harry's life experiences, thus it would have known what it is like to be loved, to have friends and peers. Could this final piece of Voldemort's soul be the key to the whole love argument? This piece "chooses" Harry's love-filled life over Voldemort's loveless, selfish experiences. Could make for an interesting conclusion!

Nice article, glad to see someone summed most of the HarryHorcrux theory.

I came to the conclusion on my own shortly after reading the books and was very excited about the possibilities. Here are a few thoughts of mine:

When Dumbledore was talking about the snake as a possible Horcrux, I believe this was to show the readers that it is possible for a living thing as a Crux, but I am a follower of the HarryHorcurx theory, so think this was to show the possibilities of Harry being one.

Why would it be accidental? Surely if LV had thought of it, he could have murdered Lily, and purposefully made Harry a horcrux, this seems like a very smart thing to do because then if Harry was killed (via LV) then LV has achieved his goal, yes, he’s lost a 7th of his soul, but that’s happened anyway with the Diary. And in the (un)likely circumstances of Harry killing LV, well, what do you know, he’s still alive! LV can still exist as vapormort like he has done previously because he still has a soul fragment in Harry. Win/win situation

So how would Harry destroy LV? This is a VERY rough idea of what I have concluded (with a shirtload of guesswork, and this is just one man’s opinion, so don’t get too steamed up about it):

Harry kills all Crux’s known of, has some form of final showdown with LV, and discovers in some awesomely JKR style way that he has a portion of LV’s soul inside himself. He then uses the locked love room in the MoM and either, finds a way to destroy the final portion, OR lives with the knowledge that there is a part of him that belongs to LV, and just lives with it (as he has done in the past).

Yes, lots of holes in my theory, this is just how I see it.

Indecently I’m also a fan of the Good-Snape theory and think that Neville’s the man (watch out for his wand!!!)

Waiting for the last book,
Glor

Great to see you back M. Hope everything works out for you.

I hope I'm not repeating something somebody else already said (sry, but there's 4 pages guys) but anyway,

on JK's site there's this section where she keeps making us use this eraser looking thing to create a picture of a cauldren and some secret ingredients, and all these ingredients keep floating around,

So I completely agree with your theory about this Super Potion that HarryandCo create. Plus, it would be so perfectly full circle, to have Potions save the day.

Maybe Snape is good. But Snape is not good. I just can't see him doing anything that wont be in his best interest.

(this is in response to Glorfindel's "good Snape" theory.

There were several aspects of the information we recieved from Dumbledore that just dont seem quite right.

The fact that we know where only five pieces of Voldemort's soul are/were (ring, diary, locket, cup, homebase), that two havent been confirmed and that the educated guess about one of them is between two categories (something of gryfinndor or ravenclaw's) leaves the definite possibility that the theory about the two remaining pieces are wrong. But we do have to bear in mind that Dumbledore's theories routinely turn out to be accurate.

I can't decide whether Harry is Horcrux or not because i honestly dont want it to go that way, since his chances of survival then are worse than ever, but its definately possible.

But im really bothered by all this magical number stuff. Did Voldemort just pick 7 because its a magical number and it makes an interesting arrangement? I doubt it. Having seven must have meant something more concrete. It reminds me of the anagram thing with the name. I dont think Riddle sat down and decided "Im going to make a new name for myself that is an anagram of my old one.". Thats practically an impossible thing to plan to do, especially with the name's meaning. He had to have thought of Voldemort because it means "flight of death" or something like that, not cause of the anagram.

Now i come back to the magical numbers. Its just as irrational as creating your new name as an anagram as it is to make multiple Horcruxes and stop at seven just because seven is the most powerfully magical number. If having a seven part soul doesnt yield some extra power or protection, theres absolutely no point stopping there. Voldemorts a Dark Lord, not a kid creating his AIM profile or his myspace or something.

So i think having the six horcruxes has some real value and i think it might mean something. Voldemort never had six intact horxruxes at once, so whatever extra power having the seven part soul would yield has not been revealed.

It may well mean nothing and the 7 thing was just another way for jkr to organize the plot and reveal dd's theories, but its one of those things in the plot that you we probably shouldnt dwell on much, since it could be a factual mistake. For example, Voldemort knows one of his horcruxes are gone, he has the diary. Why not make a replacement? that would settle harrys hash really quick.

Remember that bit in "...Phoenix" when Harry keeps going on and on about how disguisting he would feel if Voldy was him or a part of him.

That's his worst fear now. That he's somehow "unpure". Tainted. Marked...

I think JK was foreshadowing.

If Harry (or his scar) is a horcrux and contains part of Voldemort's soul, why is Voldemort intent on killing him?

I agree with Chas - if Voldemort made Harry a horcrux why does he keep trying to kill him? Also if you think Voldemort's pet snake isn't a horcrux because it isn't a good idea to have a living thing as a horcurx then why on earth would he have Harry as one? I somehow think Harry isn't one as he would be much harder to keep under control than Nagini who would be more probable as she can be controlled by parslemouth which maybe useful to Harry to get rid of her as he also speaks parslemouth maybe Nagini could be tricked by Harry pretending to be Volemort speaking parlsemouth and telling her to do something which will result in her death and voila - one less horcrux.

hi im new to this forum but i'd like to share some stuff with everyone...i disagree with the harry=horcrux...i ahve my own theory...ok suppose that there were seven horcruxes made...we know for a fact that there are 3. the ring, diary, and voldemort. wen voldy went to kill harry, he already had horcruxes made. if he didnt have the horcruxes made then he would ahve died that night. which makes me believe that t he part of his sole that he was using then died. so thats 3 that are detroyed. when voldy was returned to his body in the fourth book, he would have needed a sole [[or part of a sole]]...which means that he would have had to use one of his horcruxes to get him back his sole. which means that four parts of his sole are either destroyed or in him. which leaves 3 parts left. i think the other horcruxes are hufflepuff's cup, the locket, and that leave one other horcrux. so the last horcrux could be something or gryffindor's, ravenclaw's or nagini. but i do not think that horcruxes could be living. btu thats just my opinion. so that is another reason why i dont think harry=horcrux. so the seven horcruxes are:marvolo's ring, riddle's diary, syltherin's locket, hufflepuff's cup, voldy's last aprt of his sole before he killed lily and james, voldy's sole after he is reborn, and one other thing of either gyrffindor's or ravenclaw's

Defy Gravity

I just have a couple things. First, wasn't Harry's mantra "...something of Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw?" in which case we're back to 7 pieces, not 7 horcruxes. I may be wrong but please correct me if so. Second, I was arguing about what happens when the soul is split... a while ago... and several people mentioned that they believed that the soul splitting does not necessarily mean that a piece breaks off entirely. They said that their definition of 'splitting' was a 'crack' in the soul, although it, as a whole, stays together. The act of creating a horcrux is the only thing that breaks off a piece entirely. I'm not sure if I agree, but again, it's a thought. Happy editorializing. :)

ETA: In response to "if Voldemort knows that Harry is a horcrux, assuming he is, why does he try to kill him?" Well, remember Voldemort knows the first part of the prophecy. If Harry is killed then oh just a little less soul. We know Voldemort doesn't care too much about a whole soul, so that would be a major advantage for him. After all, he still thinks he has a bunch more horcruxes (which he kind of does) and is still immortal as long as those exist.

I'm not sure of my facts here, but this is my question--if Voldemort split his soul seven times, he would have eight pieces of soul, right? Seven horcruxes and the piece inside him? If he wanted seven pieces of soul, he would only have created six horcruxes, right?
Additionally...I always like the North Tower even when I don't agree, and in this case I don't think Harry's scar is a horcrux. For instance:
1) He is not in Slytherin; don't you think that if a piece of the heir of Slytherin's soul was inside him that would make a difference?
2)It was extremely painful for him to be possessed by Voldemort at the end of book 5--if part of Voldemort's soul was already there inside him, don't you think it would have been more natural-feeling for him to be possessed?
3)Dumbledore says Harry's greatest weapon against Voldemort is love, something Voldemort doesn't understand. There is no evidence of conflict about love in Harry. He has no trouble falling in love with either Cho Chang or Ginny.
4) There is no evidence of Harry having a split personality, talking to himself, etc., which I think would be signs of having pieces of another person stuck inside you.
5) Voldemort can't find Harry for a long time. Wouldn't you think that a piece of your own soul would call to you?
6) Voldemort doesn't start sending Harry dreams (about the Dept. of Mysteries) until fifth year. If Harry had part of Voldemort's soul, don't you think he would have discovered the connection earlier?
7) Yes, Harry can speak parseltounge, yes he has strange dreams, yes he can tell Voldemort's feelings--I won't deny that there is something strange about Harry's scar, and it may even help him in the final battle, but I do not think that the scar is harboring a piece of Voldemort's soul.
Anyhow...
I would also like to thank Maline for bringing up the point that there may not be 7 horcruxes! Maybe more, maybe less! That has been causing me to think for quite some time...

xyrax, you're right. Something of Gryffindor's OR Ravenclaw's.

just another thought--what happens to the piece of Voldemort's soul after its horcrux is destroyed? Does it die, or does it go back to rejoin the whole? If it does die, does its permanent parting weaken the corporeal Voldemort in any way?

just another thought--what happens to the piece of Voldemort's soul after its horcrux is destroyed? Does it die, or does it go back to rejoin the whole? If it does die, does its permanent parting weaken the corporeal Voldemort in any way?Dumbledore says that the soul piece ceases to exist. He also said that Voldemort will still have his full powers and be extememly dangerous and difficult to defeat even after all his horcruxes have been destroyed. - from HBP chapter on Horcruxes

oh!!! I'm SO glad ur back!!! I missed North Tower!!
good theory!!! and great editorial!
I hope to see more soon!

I am of two minds about the Harry=Horcrux idea. I feel like I always do whenever a bizarre idea is just introduced to me but then will soon (a couple of days) be my favorite theory.

The whole editorial really got me thinking, but one phrase in particular gave me a new idea. Well, a new twist on an old idea--the idea that was introduced in NT 1.

Harry will neutralize Voldemort. The phrase that really got me thinking was when you mentioned a "mental link." I am a supporter of the three-main-aspects-of-life theory, stating that everything that humans feel belongs in one of the following categories: mental, physical, and emotional.

The mental connection between Harry and Voldemort is obvious. The physical was demonstrated whenever Harry experienced "being" Voldemort--thinking as well as seeing, feeling, etc. like Voldemort. Some examples are Arthur's attack, the confession of Rookwood, etc. The most pronounced was in the DoM when Harry and Voldy were one--"bounded by pain."

This leaves emotional. We have seen some examples of emotional union of the two: when Harry feels unexpected and unexplainable surges of happiness and annoyance of Voldemort, as well as when he suddenly wanted to attack Dumbledore when their eyes met. Harry felt Voldemort's/Evil's most famous emotion: hatred.

Can this work in the opposite direction? Can Harry somehow force his emotions into Voldemort? I mentioned earlier the idea in NT 1: the idea that Harry will neutralize Voldemort. To quote Dumbledore, "the question is how? If Harry can do something (Legilimency?) to force his emotions into Voldemort, will he be able to import so much good emotion--love, nobility, courage, integrity--that it will override and destroy Voldemort's bad emotions--hatred, urge for dominace, and bloodthirst?

Oh, and one more thing (if posts dont have length limits): this would really explain the last word in the series (scar). JKR is certain that this will be the last word of the book, even though she hasn't wrote it yet. Wouldn't it make sense that the climax that JKR has in mind would have a lot to do with Harry's scar?

I really think that I may have stumpled onto something here, so tell me what y'all think!

Can this work in the opposite direction? Can Harry somehow force his emotions into Voldemort? I mentioned earlier the idea in NT 1: the idea that Harry will neutralize Voldemort. To quote Dumbledore, "the question is how? If Harry can do something (Legilimency?) to force his emotions into Voldemort, will he be able to import so much good emotion--love, nobility, courage, integrity--that it will override and destroy Voldemort's bad emotions--hatred, urge for dominace, and bloodthirst?

I really think that I may have stumpled onto something here, so tell me what y'all think!I like your idea that Harry could somehow use his link with Voldemort to force emotions into him, and thereby neutralizing him. Right now Voldemort is using Occlumency to block Harry, but maybe it would be possible to get around it.

I really liked your theories because I've been thinking pretty much the same thing. I think Dumbledore was right when he said that Voldemort only wanted to creat six horcruxes and he was intending to use Harry's death to make the last of the six. I also agree that he probably made Harry a horcrux accidentally. I also don't think he knew about Harry being a horcrux until that moment in the fifth book when he fiirst realized that Harry was in his head. However, I think that when he first came back, thinking he still needed one more horcrux, he probably did make Nagini into a horcrux as well. This puts the total number of horcruxes at seven and would also explain why he could posess Nagini and also why he could posess Harry. After all wizards are not supposed to be able to posess other creatures if they already have a body of their own, but Voldemort does.

I started reading the north tower about 3 weeks before the newest editorial was added. I remember reading Hermiones punishment and could not believe how you could think of things like that. I became amazed with your editorial and could not wait for your next editorial. I became excited when i visited the editorial home page and saw that you had updated. I read your editorial with anxiety. I read it and before long i was already into a transe with your words and theories. I used to think that the idea of harrys scar being the last horcrux would ruin the story, but now that i read your editorial i realized that it would make perfect sense. While harry dies, he also kills the last horcrux, therefore killing voldemort. It's the perfect way to end the story without needing another book. thanks and i'll be looking forward to your next post.

We are looking forward to hearing you on Mugglecast!
Please!

Great editorial, and great to have you back. I only read the NT, and without it have been rather starving for new ideas, hope you keep up the great work!

ahh, another wonderful article. I can breath again (after a lengthy absence of an update)

:)

if the scar was a horcrux, harry would have to destroy himself to vanquish voldemort. i mean, you can't just destroy a scar. and i think harry'd have a tough time fighting voldemort if he were dead.

...Anyway, in order to make the story as dramatic as possible, Harry would need to be the final Horcrux. This would mean that he would have to DIE in order to destroy Voldemort, which is something that most people don't want, but if this theory's true it's something everyone has to get over.

If Harry is a horcrux, all he has to do is go beyond the veil to deal with that part of LV's soul. The trick would be coming back from the veil alive. I believe Snape is capable of making such a potion that will allow Harry, for a limited time, to return from the veil.

Wonderful editorial as always. You write your ideas so good and convincing. This theory got me thinking, I often confused and kinda crazy, but I didn't think of Lily and James having an Gryffindor heirlome in their home. Maybe Voldemort manished to make it a horcrux and the piece is still there somewhere =P ot not...As I said, a little crazy ;)

Your editorial is the best, and I too wonder when we will hear you on the MuggleCast?

OK, first let me apoligize for my dreadful grammar. I have enjoyed maline's articles. i look forward to them alot more than i care to admit; not realizing just how much until i was increasingly more angry each time i checked and didnt find a new post from her. i do disagree with maline on the harry horcurx angle and hope to point this out. i do think she is being too critical about the choice of words with the "vanquish" instead of "killing" voldemort. She, being a writer herself is looking at the whole thing from a writer's point of view first and a fans point of view second. She keeps pointing out how things should go according to how a story should be written. Its kind of like an art critic never being able to see the true beauty of a painting because they know too much of the process. However, she may be right on this one since dumbledore did say their are far worse things than death and voldemort cant understand this.

now lets look at the harry's scar is the last horcrux argument. I dont believe the scar is a horcrux because of a few reasons:

first of all harry felt bitter agony when voldemort possesed him in book 5, if voldemort had a piece of his soul in harry or touching harry (if you argue the horcrux isnt actually in him) he would be in a terrible unending pain.

second, slughorn told voldemort that you must split your soul and then put it in an object with a spell. even if you argue that voldemort split his soul with the murders of his parents or countless other murders, he did not get to perform the spell to put the piece of soul in harry or any other object.

and third, if voldemort had gone to kill harry with the intention of using that murder for the final horcrux he would have already had an object he wanted to use. possibly something he aquired from one of the two kids he took to the cave. if he bothered to take them to such a place that was so hard to get to he might have taken something from them. maybe he liked the girl and she was with the boy so he terrorized the boy to impress her. if so maybe he had something of hers he planned on using for the last horcurx. i know voldemort supposedly never loved anyone or had any friends, but a pretty face can warm the coldest heart, especially when he was so young and not totally evil at the time.

its just my opinion and hope to hear everyones thoughts on what i have written.

sincerely,

History

Ok, if you’ve addressed this point then you can just point me to where to look. I didn’t read all the posts, but I know I am repeating at least one thing that was mentioned for another reason.
I think many of the ideas you got were great and will fit regardless. Harry having a soul to soul face off, they are in each other’s heads after all. ^_^
I like Vapormort- yeah that could’ve effected his scar.

If Voldemorts fraction of a soul landed in Harry, it would explain why Harry has a connection to Voldemort’s thoughts and emotions, but could it have actually survived in Harry? Since Harry is filled w/ love and had the Charm of love protecting him after his mother’s death, wouldn’t anything as vile and destructive as Voldemort’s soul have been expelled/destroyed?
I think the possibility of the fraction being present in Harry could explain why is scar is the way it is, but I find it hard to believe that it is still there.
If you wonder why I say this I’ll support my point now. HP#1 When Quirell/Voldy touched him his mother’s protection put them into agony & they couldn’t bare to touch him (i.e., they could but not permanently, it couldn’t have lasted 13 years let alone one day). Also judging from how Voldemort acted on Ginny in HP#2, his take over was slow but he didn’t just bide his time, or wait for ever, if there was a fraction actually residing in Harry I doubt it would have been so blessedly silent when it could take over his life. (and for that matter what would happen if 2 souls were in one body). I suppose my last point when Voldemort tried to get into Harry in HP#5, he seemed to be winning for a moment, but then Harry thought of Sirius and love drove Voldemort out. While it is true Harry may not have intense love coming to the surface everyday of his life, but if a fragment was there wouldn’t have been driven out by the first time Harry longed with his whole being for those he loved, like his parents in the mirror of Erised?

However, I do have a question for you, and for anyone else who might have the answer.... I tried to use the link from your ed to the "spirit quest" article on the Red Hen site you referenced. But the link only goes to the home page.

I believe the reference to Ren Hen’s Spirit Quest is accessed thru http://www.redhen-publications.com/Premature.html. From redhen-publications.com home page, click “My Work”, then “Commentary”, then chose “Concerning Potterverse”, under the heading “Harry Potter & the Dark Lord” you’ll find “The Premature Prediction”. Take some time to read “The Changling Hypothesis” while you are there as well. Both are very well thought theories.

Here is my theory:
What if Harry WAS a horcrux until the end of OotP when Voldemort possessed him and reclaimed the piece of his soul? It was deep anguish for Harry and Voldemort, but the visions and other access into Voldemort’s mind and emotions stopped after that joining. Maybe Voldemort reclaimed the piece of soul hidden within Harry. After all, Ginny had no lasting ill effects when the part of Tom Riddle’s soul that had been poured into her was removed when Harry destroyed the diary. I doubt that Voldemort would want to make any further horcruxes since he knew how weak he became after Lily rebounded his curse on Harry. Could he have retrieve that piece of soul and be saving it to make a new horcrux in what he believes will be his final battle with Harry. Snape proclaimed “Potter belongs to the Dark Lord- we are to leave him!” (HBP 28) I believe Voldemort still wants to fulfill his version of the prophesy by using Harry to make himself immortal. But Harry still has the power of love on his side…

Maline: interesting read. I was attentioned to your editorial in response to something I posted on another thread. The discussion in which I took part was about the question whether Harry could indeed have a piece of Voldemort's soul in him and whether that necessarily turned him into a horcrux. My take on this was that it was very possible that Harry did indeed get a piece of Voldemort's soul, but that I don't believe that it is possible to "accidentally" create a horcrux -- thus Harry is not a horcrux. Where does this lead? My thoughts are nowhere near as rounded up as your editorial, but I came to wonder about the possible significance of Voldemort having (unwillingly and unknowingly) divided his soul into EIGHT pieces instead of the magical SEVEN and contrary to you I came to the conclusion that the number EIGHT has very interesting connotations as well! Please, bear with me:

***

"Eight is seven plus one, and is hence the start of a new order, the beginning of a new era. Eight thus represents regeneration and resurrection.

The number eight on it's side also represents the symbol of infinity, the Lemniscate:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f148/BUUste/infinity.jpg

The religious aspect of the infinity symbol predates its mathematical origins. Similar symbols have been found in Tibetan rock carvings; and the ouroboros, or infinitysnake, is often depicted in this shape. In the tarot, it represents the balance of forces and is often associated with the magician card.

And interesting enough, as stated above, this symbol is related to other wellknown symbols such as the Ouroboros (Greek for "tail swallower") the symbol of the Serpent biting it's own tail, the Caduceus, Asclepius' Wand and the Crucified Serpent...

The Ouroboros is a greek word, and means "tail swallower." The ouroboros is usually depicted in the form of a snake swallowing its tail, and is usually circular, although it is sometimes depicted in a lemniscate shape. The ouroboros originated in Egypt as a symbol of the sun, and represented the travels of the sun disk. In Gnosticism, it was related to the solar God Abraxas, and signified eternity and the soul of the world. In alchemy, it represents the spirit of Mercury (the substance that permeates all matter), and symbolizes continuous renewal (a snake is often a symbol of resurrection, as it appears to be continually reborn as it sheds its skin.), the cycle of life and death, and harmony of opposites. A double ouroboros (two creatures swallowing one another) in alchemy signifies volatility.

The Ouroboros appears in many other cultures and settings as well...the Serpent Jormungandr of Norse legend, who encircled the world, and guarded Yggdrasil, the Tree of Life, is often depicted as an ouroboros. The Aztec serpent God Queztacoatl was depicted similarly, and Chinese alchemical dragons have both similar shapes and meaning.

On a side note: I would like to point out that the image of the Serpent is one of utmost dichotomy. The great Western religions only see it as a symbol of evil, betrayal and original Sin, but many cultures all over the world assign to it values such as wisdom, eternity, immortality, healing, etc. It is a symbol of both life and death. Above excerpt even connects it to the Sun, a symbol strongly connected to Harry (Leo, Gryffindor). And this is interesting, really, because Harry has shown this ambiguity over and over (The Sorting Hat, Parseltongue, Red - Green symbolism etc.) and it neatly ties in with the soul piece theory:

"Hmm,"said a small voice in his ear. "Difficult. Very difficult. Plenty of courage, I see. Not a bad mind, either. There's talent, oh my goodness, yes -- and a nice thirst to prove yourself, now that's interesting... So where shall I put you?"
Harry gripped the edges of the stool and thought, "Not Slytherin, not Slytherin."
"Not Slytherin, eh?" dais the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all there in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that -- no? Well, if you're sure -- better be GRYFFINDOR!"

But where does all of this take us: with splitting his soul into EIGHT pieces instead of SEVEN, Voldemort marked Harry as the one to start and symbolise a new order, an order that surpasses the symbolism of the Seven. In a weird and symbolical way he made Harry the one with "immortality", not himself...

Japanese proverb: "Fall seven times, stand up eight"

I think it would also tie in with "the power the Dark Lord knows not" because I doubt that Voldemort woud ever consider EIGHT a possibly more powerful number than SEVEN (provided that he is aware of the fact that he has split his soul into eight pieces instead of seven...) His knowledge of ancient magic and symbolism does seem to be limited to what he himself considers useful -- he does not seem to have a great deal of feeling for the underlying mechanism etc. If I'm making any sense here...

The "Snake biting his own tail" -- Voldemort bringing about his own fall...? How is that for a backfire of his quest for immortality!

That the number EIGHT does have magical, spiritual and symbolical purposes tied to the soul and infinity and what not can be found in all kind of sources, for example

The Gnostic Serpent Wheel

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f148/BUUste/84d20c2a.jpg

***

But further into the significance of the number EIGHT...

In reply to my post someone else wondered about a possible Tarot connection, because JKR seems tp have woven a lot of Tarot symbolism (and Alchimical symbolism as well, but, though no less interesting, that is a different topic ;-) into her story. Here is what I found:

Card VIII of the Major Arcana is STRENGTH:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f148/BUUste/Tarot_RiderWaite_Strength8.jpg

Usually we think of strength in physical terms - big arms, powerful legs - but there is also inner strength. [...] It is perseverance, courage, resolve and composure - qualities that help us endure when times are tough. In the past, a person with inner strength was commonly said to have character; he or she could be counted on in the darkest moments. Card 8 represents this energy of quiet determination. Strength is not a flashy card, but one that is solid and reliable.

Card 8 also represents patience and compassion. Getting angry is easy when events turn sour, but dealing calmly with frustration takes great strength. So does accepting others and forgiving mistakes. We need strength to mold situations softly. The Chariot controls through mastery and authority. Card 8 is more subtle, even loving. Notice how the lion (itself a symbol of strength) is being guided and tamed by the woman's gentle hands.

Card 8 will appear in a reading when its qualities are needed. It can be a reminder not to despair or give up. You have the inner strength to endure and triumph. If you are pushing too hard, you need to withdraw for the moment and be patient. If other people or circumstances are driving you crazy, remember the strength that comes with love and forbearance. These will see you through the hardest moments.

Strictly speaking, the traits attributed to this card seem more fitting to Dumbledore, but I believe that these are the things that Dumbledore tried to teach Harry, the things that will enable Harry to fully develop his powers. And I have also found sources who that this card to the Zodiac sign Leo...

The most important of the 8th's opposing cards is *drum roll* card VII -- THE CHARIOT.

Because the main feature of this card is victory through hard control it is very much fitting for Voldemort!

Interesting enough, one of the 8th's reinforcing cards is card XII -- THE HANGED MAN and this card has been associated with Severus Snape (e.g. Levicorpus, etc. -- I am, by the way, a fervent Good!Snape advocate, completely and utterly convinced that Harry will need him in one way or the other, acknowledge him, to overcome his own sliding "goodness", tap in to his "Power the Dark Lord knows not" a.k.a. Love and ultimately vanguish Voldemort ;-)

The Hanged Man is one of the most mysterious cards in the tarot deck. It is simple, but complex. It attracts, but also disturbs. It contradicts itself in countless ways. The Hanged Man is unsettling because it symbolizes the action of paradox in our lives. A paradox is something that appears contradictory, and yet is true. The Hanged Man presents to us certain truths, but they are hidden in their opposites.

The main lesson of the Hanged Man is that we "control" by letting go - we "win" by surrendering. The figure on Card 12 has made the ultimate surrender - to die on the cross of his own travails - yet he shines with the glory of divine understanding. He has sacrificed himself, but he emerges the victor. The Hanged Man also tells us that we can "move forward" by standing still. By suspending time, we can have all the time in the world.

In readings, the Hanged Man reminds us that the best approach to a problem is not always the most obvious. When we most want to force our will on someone, that is when we should release. When we most want to have our own way, that is when we should sacrifice. When we most want to act, that is when we should wait. The irony is that by making these contradictory moves, we find what we are looking for.

To take this metaphor even further: both STRENGTH (8 -- strength, patience, compassion, soft control, Harry?), THE HANGED MAN (12 -- letting go, reversal, suspension, sacrifice, Severus?) and THE TOWER (16 -- sudden change, release, downfall, revelation, Dumbledore?) are opposing cards to THE CHARIOT (7 -- victory, will, self-assertion, hard control, Voldemort?)

And now that I think of it, there may more significance to the numbers of the THE HANGED MAN and THE TOWER too:

12 = 8 + 1/2 * 8
16 = 2 * 8

The whole point of this excercise was to see if I could come up with a way to combine Harry containing a piece of Voldemort's soul without necessarily being a Horcrux... I'm not sure whether I succeeded, but I certainly found some interesting data on what the significance of Voldemort's eightfold soul could be: with transferring a piece of his soul to Harry, Voldemort "marked him as his equal" in more than way. He gave him powers to match his own, but in a symbolical way he also shared his "immortality" with Harry. I would not dare say in a literal sense but in a symbolical way this works quite well: Voldemort thinks he made himself "immortal" but Harry is the one marked as the start of a new order, the beginning of a new era, because the eighth soul piece represents regeneration and resurrection.

How will this work out in the final book, in the "final battle" between Harry and Voldemort? I haven't got the foggiest idea, to say the truth. The extra soul piece that Harry has does not have the same properties as a the pieces embedded in a horcrux, I think, it won't function as an anchor for Voldemort's soul. What it will do, I couldnt say.

***

If anyone knows of a thread where this can be discussed, please notify me?

i actually disagree completely with basically everything maline said..... its improbable and i dont think it would be possible

I'm glad that the North Tower has been updated; it's my favorite column. (you're awesome maline!). I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but I was 99% sure that when they were cleaning out Grimmauld Place in OotP, they found an old locket in one of the cabinets. Since the most popular theory for RAB is Regulus Black, could that be one of the Horcruxes, the one that Dumbledore and Harry were supposed to destroy?

Great article, Maline, I really think you may have it right!

That's interesting about not being able to open the locket unless you use parseltongue. We know Voldemort likes using parseltongue as a sort of key. Can come in use for Harry.

The theory that Harry is a horcrux is rubbish. Slughorn was clear that you had to perform a spell to create the horcrux. . .and there was no time after the Avada Kedavra rebounded off of Harry.

Pure rubbish

Hi, Maline. This is my first time posting - I'm a little nervous. Okay, I think you made some interesting (and good) points. At the end of the book, I think that Harry thinks that either a Gryffindor or a Ravenclaw heirloom is a Horcrux, not both. That would keep the number at seven, total. I wanted to ask you something - I don't understand what Dumbledore means when he says that he has the only known relic of Gryffindor's (the sword). What about the Sorting Hat? The hat tells you at one point that Gryffindor whipped it off his head and that the founders bewitched it to choose students for their houses.

You're right about the twists - JKR loves completely unexpected turns. I think my mouth dropped open in PoA when Scabbers was revealed to be Peter Pettigrew. Also, remember when Dumbledore told Harry that someday he might be very glad that he saved Harry's life. Well, it certainly wasn't in GoF when Pettigrew tied him to a grave and sliced his arm open. So I think that Pettigrew's moment of redemption might be coming up.

You are probably right - Dumbledore was probably wrong about at least one of the Horcruxes. If RAB (who I think is Regulus Black) didn't destroy the locket, I think I know where it is - remember when Harry is helping to clean Sirius' house, and they found a locket that they couldn't open no matter what spell they tried? I just hope they didn't throw it out! :p I also think I've discovered something else really interesting - are we allowed to write about our own theories in here?

I seriously hope that Harry isn't the last Horcrux - or if he is, I hope that he doesn't have to kill himself to destroy Voldemort. It was bad enough when they killed Sirius and Dumbledore; I cried through the whole end of HBP. I don't know what I'd do if JKR went and killed Harry. I fear for the life of every character in Book 7. :no:

something or griffindor's OR something of ravenclaws

Okay i would also like to leave this here. The scar while it helps and is bad (Poor sirius) just couldn't be a horocrux. Didn't dumbles say voldy had a surpream control over (or something like that) his snake. Voldy while can create visons dosn't have any sort of control over harry. Besides though it would be a cool twist, you can't have someone live for 7 books, defeting of discovering evil (third book) barely then have him die, it just would be to cruel

Okie Dokie, this is my theory on all of this.

I find it rather frightening that Voldemort had control over Ginny for practically one whole year. Yes, we know he "persuaded" her to strangle Hagrid's roosters, write the mesage on the wall, send the SoS (Serpent of Slytherin) on the Muggle borns and Norris and open the Chamber of Secrets while she was under a "trance".

But what else has happend to her. All this Horcrux talk got me thinking (and if this was already said--well funny how ideas float around eh?):

What if Ginny is a Horcrux??

HP + the CoS, American Scholastic, p.310: "....I grew stronger and stronger on a diet of her deepest fears, her darkest secrets. Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her..."

This got me thinking: Cups, lockets, diaries, snakes. These things, though they are "trophies" to Voldemort, mean nothing to Harry (sentimental wise). Harry wouldn't think twice about destroying any of those things if and when he gets the chance. But aaahh, if it were someone he loved I think he'd have difficulties and would definitley think twice, don't you? I mean think about it isn't the idea so...so....EVIL! It's exactly Voldemort's cup of tea! I would be quite surprised (that is, if it's possible for a human to be a horcrux) if Voldemort didn't think of this himself. He'd have to have a back-up plan, a way to stump Harry and what better way of doing so than to, force Harry to kill the one he loves. He must know the importance of Ginny for him to use her. Even Harry said so himself in HBP, how Voldemort already used her once to get to him and he did'nt want it happening again.

*shrug* Just a thought I had and I just had to get it out there. I know there's going to be alot of you out there who will put on a Hermione like air and state how absurd this thought is or point out a giant loop hole that I missed...but oh well... I like a challenge! Bring it on!

Oh another thought, I don't know if it's relevant here but while we're on the subject of Horcruxes. Now, believe me, I dislike Snape with every meaning of the word. I never thought Snape to be innocent and I still don't but this thought is another brainstorm that came to me: What if that goop that Dumbledore drank in the cave was actually a piece of Voldemort's soul. After Dumbledore drank it he's now the Horcrux and Snape killed him to ...destroy the piece of soul...destroy yet another "Horcrux". A Dumbledore Horcrux. Now on account of not giving it alot of thought, there's alot of questions to be raised and answered. But I thought to put it out there first, then deal with all the speculating.

My bottom line is, I believe a Horcrux is someone Harry loves, I think that it's something Harry would have a problem destroying if he had the opportunity. I say it's Ginny simply because she's had the closest contact with Voldemort excet maybe Mr. Weasly.

If I come up with something else, I'll elaborate on this..
So, your comments, thoughts, objections and possible insults...
Over n' Out.

Hello Maline, it's really nice to have you back.

I am new at posting at mugglenet, until today I have only read the excellent editorials, but I've wanted to give my two cents in this matter, so I finally decided to subscribe.

About splitting souls. This not an exclusive Potter universe phenomenon. The first time I heard about splitting souls was when I visited Bali in 93. At a crossroads we met a priest performing a cerimony. We asked what it was all about, and they explained to us this way. There was an accident on that crossroads about a month ago, and there was only one survivor, a young lady that was at the center of the ceremony. Everytime there is an accident, a death in the family, or any calamity, the soul is split. Unless the person performs the ceremony to rejoin the soul piece with the rest of the soul, the person will be unhappy, incomplete, and might even get ill (all those unexplained diseases). The piece of the soul that remains behind is proportional to the impact of the event on the person. Two persons that were in the same accident might leave bits of soul of different sizes if one is more sensitve then the other.

I later heard that the Balinese are not the only ones to believe that the soul can be split. Xamanism and some other religions also do. The lost piece may linger at the site of the accident. You may live a piece of your soul in your old house. You may live a piece of your soul with somebody. This piece may be willingly given, lovers usually exchange soul pieces, or it may be taken forcifully. Or it may have been given willingly, but retained against the will if there is a separation.

There is even a whole vocabulary that reflexes this. After a tragedy we say - "I fell in pieces", and then we realize that we've got to "get ourselves together". There are people who "give too much of themselves to others".

I don't know if this bit of information will help you or not in your speculations about Voldermort's soul pieces, but I hope it does...:D

I think what you say about souls is right on the money. I never thought about it that way, but you are right, usually we are talking about your soul or heart as some might say back together after a tragic occourance. I will say that sometimes people might say that my heart is breaking, but I think that they are really talking about the soul still.

Hello Maline, long time no see.

I have to say that I disagree with you on the horacrux forthe main reason is that it does not appear to be the case that Old Voldie had time to construct a horacrux.

Pehraps this is a subject for another article: how a horacrux is constructed.

Interesting stuff, Maline. I throw my 2 cents in later.

Hey, Morgan Emerald-- I love your research. If Harry is a Horcrux is true and Voldemort made an extra, this symbolism would be just gorgeous! Thank you for your time and effort and links to the Tarot cards.

This is interesting also because Trelawney is reading cards non-stop in HBP. She bumps into Harry as she is trying to hide her sherry bottles in the RoReq--after a conversation with Harry she pulls out the tarot that you spoke of --the Lightening Struck Tower. Even the chapter that Dumbledore is killed is entitled the Lightening Struck Tower.

I especially like the ones she pulls out of her deck when she stops right next to where Harry is hiding about a "dark haired man" in OOTP.

I think that some of Trelawney's predictions via the cards do get proven true, although no one wants to admit it (or even realizes it). The other faculty think she is a fraud, but she has made two real, very important prophesies. These clues are, I think, for our benefit. I would pay more attention to her, but we have to sift through a lot of clutter--like her beads and shawls-- to find the nuggets of real gold.

-

My 2 cents and (2 opinions)

Penny #1: Harry is Horcrux #8. I like Morgan Emerald's reply on page 5 of this post. She does some great research. If he is a horcrux, then I believe that he does have to go through the veil and returns without his scar--having dropped off the last of Voldemort soul in the nether world. Perhaps Snape's potion that some else has suggested gives him the time to step through, see Sirius, mom and dad, Cedric, Dumbledore , and (eee, gad Ron! the sacrifice -real this time, that he needs to get VL), but Harry does return scar and Voldemort free.

I like all the uses of lightening throughout the books--scar, tower, ring, etc.

Penny #2: Harry is not a horcrux. I read elsewhere about a super patronus. That is a nice idea, too.

In the graveyard, Voldemort tried to kill Harry but he managed to escape with Cedric's body. Why would Voldemort want to destroy his horcrux? I think that vapormort would have known that he created a horcrux when he found himself without a body. In SS, he wants Quirrell to kill him--but Dumbledore gets Quirrell (in the book). Harry kills in the movie, which is problimatic for me as for keeping his soul pure. In OOTP, Voldemort taunts Dumbledore to kill both he and Harry while Harry is being possessed. Of course, Voldemort still had other soul fragements to find if Dumbledore did succeed in killing Harry. And this love that Harry feels, his lack of fear of death at all, is also another of his strengths. Whe Harry confronts Snape at the end of HBP, he taunts Snape to kill him--with no fear of death.

As far as the mind link-- I think that since good is greater than evil, Harry can mind link with Voldemort without fear of possession because he is sure of who he is. Tom Riddle was able to possess Ginnny at the time because she was so insecure and vulnerable emotionally. I don't think that Ginny could have become a horcrux via Tom Riddle and the diary because Dumbledore tells us in HBP that by robbing Ginny's soul Voldemort hoped to gaine a corporeal existance. She cannot be a horcrux-it was destroyed utterly.

I don't see how Voldemort could have created the Horcrux for Nagini-if it is a horcrux, with Frank Bryce's murder. He was unanticipated. I think Voldemort used Bertha Jorkins for the horcrux for Nagini. I do love the idea that Nagini is the snake that Harry freed at the begining of SS. Maybe Nagini will owe Harry a life debt and refuse to kill him if commanded by Voldemort. My bet it that Nagini will commit suicide to pay back Harry for giving him freedom, thus releasing another horcrux from power. It is interesting that Dumbledore says that it is risky to put one's soul into another living thing. This, again, could be a way that LV's plans backfire on him by Harry. This could lead to Wormtail having to pay back Harry and not listen to the Dark Lord's commands--maybe Wormtail destroys a horcrux for Harry as well?? These two options would releave Harry from having to do all the work himself (which would make the storyline a bit boring).
Diary--Harry
Ring--Dumbledore
Nagini--suicide
Locket--RAB?
Cup-- Wormtail?

That would just leave Harry to finish off Voldemort with a big kiss!

I just wanted to present the idea to Maline that maybe RAB is Regulus Black, Sirius' brother who left the death eaters only to be killed later on. The note in the locket Harry recovered said that this RAB would probably be dead before Voldy found out he had even discovered his secret. Then in OotP in chapter 6 The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black, pg. 116 (American version) while cleaning out the heavy glass cabinet "...a heavy locket that none of them could open..." was found. Could it possibly be Slytherin's locket? I was interested to see what she thinks about that idea. Sorry if I'm going about sending Maline a message wrong this is my first time.

-Jeannine

Hey, what about this theory—Harry’s scar is a Horcrux, but transferring Voldy-soul inside Harry to Voldy would be very easy as Voldy has Harry’s blood! And that would explain the 'glint' in Dumble's eyes!!!

What if the only way for the part of Voldemort's soul inside Harry to be removed is for Harry to split his combined soul...by committing murder.

The prophecy indicates murder or be murdered and we assume it means murdering Voldemort, but what if it could be anyone, just to get rid of the last piece of soul ( which may or may not be a horcrux, but which I feel has to be destroyed for Harry to fully live. )

He could choose to continue with that part inside him and overcome the destructive side of his nature that it invokes, or commit murder and have his soul fully his again.

As a twist, could it be Snape that he murders?
As for horcruxes generally....I have a few questions I need help with...

...What do people think Snape would have done after he killed Dumbledore? Would he have made a horcrux? I happen to believe Snape has a phenomenal amount of power (knowledge of potions/spells/connections etc) but is just choosing not to use it for his own ends. He comes across as holding more cards than Voldemort sometimes.

...Could Voldemort have created a horcrux if he only intended to murder Harry because it didn't work and no murder was actually committed?
(Yes, I still believe Harry could be one because of James' and Lily's murders but don't think the soul could have been split three times that night)

Anyway, very well written editorial, very easy to follow...thanks!

Maline,

Ok, I really liked your theory but I just don't think Harry can be a Horcrux; for instance, Voldemort's attempted possession of Harry in the Ministry of Magic (OoTP) was impossible for him - Voldemort couldn't bare to possess him due to Harry's capacity to Love (Dumbledore explains this to him later). So given this, how can a piece of Voldemort's soul possibly inhabit Harry?

Maline,

Well written, though I don't think that Harry himself will be a horcrux but I shall get back to this.

I think that there shall be seven pieces, because that is a number that has been used over and over again, and as we all know, JKR enjoys her repetition. I think they will be
1) Voldemort himself, that is definate
2) The ring
3) The book
4) The locket
5) The cup

Now, the last two are a bit more difficult. I don't think that nagini would be one, because snakes are easily killed as we saw in CoS. I do think that there will be something of Gryffindor's and I don't think that Godric's Hollow was a non-symbolic place. I think that the situation of the killings will be very important to the strength of the horcrux.

And just as a little side, some people are getting very worked up over the whole "no time between the killing and rebound and creating a horcrux..... etc ." I am drawn to the idea that the spell used was not Avada Kedavra but a variation of which incorporates the creation of a horcrux. We know that Voldemort was incredibly powerful and surely he would be able to create and adjust spells to suit his own needs. Now, if this idea is true, then there are two sections to the spell, one goes and kills the victim and the other goes further and creates the horcrux. However, if the killing section fails then presumably the other part will also fail, due to the soul not being split. Thus, I think Voldemort, our good friend, will be somewhat annoyed, because there wont be the 7'th horcrux made of something of Gryffindor (I am certain that Voldemort would be making Gryffindor's horcrux at Godric's Hollow because of the fitting nature of the situation.

So, the sixth part is Ravenclaw's and the seventh was never created. 6 does seem to be a good number though, fits in with the whole 666 thing of the devil...

Well, there are my jumbled thoughts out in the open

Damon

For me, this editorial was a big waste of time, simply because you missed one detail, as was pointed out already-the fact that Harry plans to look for something of Ravenclaw's OR Gryffindor's. This wasn't only mentioned at the end, but also when Dumbledore told Harry about the Horcruxes and said he believes the sword is the only object of Gryffindor's. It's hard to pay much attention to the rest of the arguement when it sounds like you haven't paid close attention to the research.

That said, I do believe Harry is a Horcrux, but as has been posted before me, this article didn't bring anything new to that theory.

I was curious about the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone of Marvolo Gaunt’s ring. (HBP10, US pg207) The coat of arms I found on a web search showed a large lion emblazoned across the crest. Maybe Salazar Slytherin also had a penchant for trophy hunting like his final heir, Lord Voldemort. Although it was clearly in the Gaunt family for many generations, could the ring have originally belonged to Godric Gryffindor? If so, Dumbledore was not aware of it. But, Harry is to look for something belonging to Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw. I’m betting Ravenclaw.

Are you connecting Gryffindor to the courage of a lion - hence the lion on the coat of arms? The Peverells were a real historic family in England apparently with some connections to William The Conqueror who invaded England from Normandy in France in 1066. Now what year was Hogwarts founded again? How I would like to get my hands on a copy of Hogwarts - A History and read it!

Wonderful article Maline:tu: , but I dissagree with you in making the spectacular ending of HP series that classic. I like your ending, but why don't you give to it some more development before it happens, here is my theory:

1 Voldy knows of the prophesy.
2 He DON'T try to kill Harry he imagine if that's the boy that could finish with him it won't be that simple. Instead he makes him a horcrux, as long as H live V too, and as Dumbledore will not let Harry die, V becomes partially inmortal.
3 Voldemort disappears for a long time. This was because the death used for H horcrux (scar) was Lilly's one, and his love protects Harry, and although V is gone Harry is still a horcrux. Later D fixes L love with a spell in H if I'm remembering well.
4 This is the reason why V tryies to Kill H sacrificing a part of himself to protect the others from H but he can't because of Lilly's love and D's spell.
5 That's why he order to kill D, to make the spell effect dissapear, and so could kill Harry.
6 Now Harry has his mother love as protection but no as strong as before, and after deleting 5 horcruxes, the only left are, H and V itself and they will front in a final battle.
7Lets suppose H kills V. V would only live in harry and would cause a big confusion on H mind. Sometimes V would have the lead of Harrys body, H will be on a fight with himself, and ther are 2 soltions to it:
-Or he suicide for the well being of the magic community.
-Or he reaches to take V out of his mind some way and like that killing V.
I prefer the second because H friends won't let him suicide

About what The Dwarf said...
The scar on Harry's head was made when Voldemort's killing spell bounced off him, right? So how could Voldemort have made tha scar into a Horcrux if it wasn't even there? Besides, Voldemort disapeared right after he tried to kill Harry so he didn't even have time to think, not to mention making the scar a Horcrux... Right?

Thanks for writing, Maline, your editorials are always enjoyable and thought provoking.

I've always had one question about the horcruxes, and I wonder if you've had thoughts on it as well. Dumbledore said that Voldemort didn't die the night he murdered the Potters because of the horcruxes. When one piece of Voldemort's soul got destroyed that night, wouldn't he have to revert back to one of his other pieces of soul in one of the horcruxes? And if he had already split his soul in to seven pieces, meaning six horcruxes, wouldn't that leave only five left?
We know about the diary, the ring, the locket, and Hufflepuff's cup, which leaves one more for Harry to destroy, assuming Voldemort didn't create more hurcruxes after his resurrection.
I know this is just one more theory thrown into the steadily growing mountain, but hopefully one of you brilliant posters or Maline could have some more thoughts.

That's a good point so which Horcrux kept Voldie alive after his little incident with Harry? That does mean there is one less to get rid of as it's already used up. The question of which one.....

hey maline, you posted something semantically challenging about the prophecy before, but i'm not sure if you looked at this:

many potter speculators have spent a lot of time arguing about the meaning of this part of the prophecy: "one can't live while the other survives". i think the semantics are pretty interesting. survive in french is survivre--quite literally, going beyond living or outliving someone. several of jo's names and phrases have multilingual references. if it said, "one can't live while the other does," the meaning would be very straightforward.

i just realized that harry survived his parents and perhaps voldemort. maybe it means that voldemort cannot truly live while harry carries on his family's legacy or something cheesy like that.

hey, i'm a first time reader of your column and a newcomer to the forums and mugglenet in general.

you theories are interesting, but i don't really agree with them. why would voldemort intentionally make harry a horcrux and then try to kill him? And I don't think that you can make a horcrux accidentally, because as the book says, it is very dark and powerful magic. Also, as Dumbledore tends to be right about just about everything all the time, I think there are only 7 horcruxes and no more. I may be wrong or mistaken because I haven't read the book in a while, but your column was very interesting!

In book 5 Voldemort tried to Possess Harry and could not. For this reason I don't believe a piece of Voldemort's soul could survive "in" Harry.

I only recently discovered Mugglenet and the wonderful editorials. Thanks, Maline!

This is a theory that borrows heavily from other sources:

Voldemort went to Godric's hollow that fateful night for two reasons:
1) To kill Harry Potter, the boy with the power to kill him.
2) To create another horcrux, possibly a Gryffindor relic lying around, possibly the dead body of the one person with the power to kill him. That's right, it's my contention that Voldemort wanted to create a horcrux out of Harry's dead body. What better to symbolize his immortality?
Obviously, this plan failed, but could Harry still be a horcrux?

It seems like two problems cause most of the debate over whether Harry could be a horcrux or not:

1)How is a Horcrux created?
The general consensus seems to be that a specific spell is needed to create a horcrux, and it cannot be done accidentally. Many say this is proof positive that Harry cannot be a Horcrux; Voldemort had no time to do a spell to create a horcrux after he attempted to kill Harry. However, what if the Horcrux spell must be in place before the murder? Then Voldemort could conceivably have set up the horcrux spell beforehand.

2) The previous scenario is all fine and good, but even if Voldemort did set up a spell, he didn't kill Harry: his soul didn't split. What actually causes the soul to split? JK has always emphasized the importance of choice. Wouldn't it be enough to split a soul, then, to attempt murder and truly believe that you will accomplish it? Couldn't the choice be enough? Not the choice to kill him at some point in the future; not the choice to show up on his doorstep; not the choice to point his wand at him; but the choice to say the magic words Avada Kedavra and actually take his life, the choice to go beyond the pont of no return?

If that were enough to split Vodemort's soul, and he had the horcrux spell in place beforehand, couldn't Harry be a horcrux? It would certainly explain that mysterious link between the two of them.

But wait! At several points throughout the series, Voldemort has attempted to kill Harry! He wouldn't try to kill his horcrux!
Why not? Killing Harry is different than destroying his body. A dead body can be a horcrux just as well as an alive one. Furthermore, Voldemort has always reserved the special privelige among his Death Eaters of killing Harry himself. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk the accidental destruction of his horcrux.

Discussion for the North Tower #44 - The Crux of it All (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt44.shtml).
Hello everybody!! And hello Maline! Is the first time I join a forum. Forgive me if my english is not good, I'm from buenos Aires, Argentina. I 'd like to know what do you think about this: from every letter of the word "RIDDLE" we can guess which the seven (if there are seven) horcruxes are. One letter for one horcrux: "R" for ring, "D" for diary, "D" for draco (or snake), "L" for locket, and here we start guessing: "I" for infant (following your theory, Maline, in case that harry is a horcrux), "E" for Erised, the mirror. The mirror is the horcrux that belongs to Ravenclaw and Harry to Griffindor. Well, what do you think?

Discussion for the North Tower #44 - The Crux of it All (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt44.shtml).
Hello everybody!! And hello Maline! My name is Teresita .Is the first time I join a forum. Forgive me if my english is not good, I'm from buenos Aires, Argentina. I 'd like to know what do you think about this: from every letter of the word "RIDDLE" we can guess which the seven (if there are seven) horcruxes are. One letter for one horcrux: "R" for ring, "D" for diary, "D" for draco (or snake), "L" for locket, and here we start guessing: "I" for infant (following your theory, Maline, in case that harry is a horcrux), "E" for Erised, the mirror. The mirror is the horcrux that belongs to Ravenclaw and Harry to Griffindor. Well, what do you think?

Discussion for the North Tower #44 - The Crux of it All (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt44.shtml).
Hello everybody!! And hello Maline! My name is Teresita .Is the first time I join a forum. Forgive me if my english is not good, I'm from buenos Aires, Argentina. I 'd like to know what do you think about this: from every letter of the word "RIDDLE" we can guess which the seven (if there are seven) horcruxes are. One letter for one horcrux: "R" for ring, "D" for diary, "D" for draco (or snake), "L" for locket, and here we start guessing: "I" for infant (following your theory, Maline, in case that harry is a horcrux), "E" for Erised, the mirror. The mirror is the horcrux that belongs to Ravenclaw and Harry to Griffindor. Well, what do you think?

That is quite interesting about the name Riddle being a riddle for the Horcri.
Wouldn't it be funny if that's what JK did with the Horcri......Ring, Infant (hope not Harry) Diary, Locket, Erised etc .... but what of the other D - not Draco or Dragon surely......

the only thing is, for the scar to be a horcrux, voldermort has to perform a spell in order to encase the soul. a horcrux is not created when one kills but a splitting of the soul.

that is a great theory and it does make sense and you one is just well written, it didn't sound random at all by the way, it sounded really well thought out! and not complicated!!

Excellently written, really top notch.
I commend you.

Not sure what I think about the whole Harry is a Horcrux theory, but the facts are there. I am still skeptical on whether you can make something a horcrux on accident. The issue I have with this is that Voldy has been trying to kill Harry for such a long time. I am not sure if you KNOW if something is your horcrux if you did make it on accident, but if you do, I certainly think that V. wouldn't be in a mad rush to kill it.

Dear Maline,

The Red Hen and I are trying to contact you about a project and some news we think you will enjoy, as well as invitation to something exciting. I lost your snail mail address in my recent move or I'd express mail you a letter; sorry about writing you via these forums but it seemed the best way to contact you quickly!

John, your alchemy and Christian symbolism friend, hoping you check these boards with some regularity

On the R.I.D.D.L.E. theory...I agree that this line of thinking is exceptionally inquisitive towards the mind of JKR, but I can't believe it. One reason is that it excludes Hufflepuff's cup, which I have to unmistakably assume to be a horcrux as the ring was. For another reason, LV hates his name, and I find it doubtful that he would have this name represent his immortality.
On the theory of HArry being a horcrux at all I'm torn, like everyone else. Not only do I think that horcrux-making involves deliberation, but that the murder must be committed BEFORE the horcrux because the soul needs to split in order to be put into the object. LV used Avada Kadavra on Harry, and then wasn't able to do anything else like make a horcrux. The only loophole here could be what someone else had mentioned (sorry can't quote..scroll up for credit) that the choice alone to commit murder can cause the soul to split. as JKR puts a lot of emphasis on choices. JKR also puts a lot of emphasis on love, which is what Lily used to save Harry's life against Avada Kadavra. If her love saved him from the killing curse, I would be disappointed to think that it couldn't stop the accidental formation of a horcrux. Loophole here being that love may be necesary to create a horcrux somehow (especially if Harry is an accidental horcrux, this may be true).
Additional comments:
1) Why wouldn't LV have a child of his own as a form of immortality, as genes seem important to LV and his DE's, and are a form of life after death?
2) I'm still wondering if Harry or Dumbledore are descendents of Gryffindor. If Harry is (which some have argued, or propositioned) wouldn't it seem likely that the Potters would have an artifact of his? I just keep going back to Dumbledore saying in book two "only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat"...

I do want to add that Harry, or his scar, being a Horcrux does seem like the perfect way to dramatize the final battle, having Harry down for the count while Neville or Aberforth or someone kills Voldy. AAHH I can't wait anymore! lol love you JKR

I really enjoyed your last post. Sorry if this has been mentioned before but the number 8 has symbolism relating to infinity or immortality. Turned on it's side it creates the symbol of the lemniscat which means "infinity". Also, in numerology, people with the ruling number 8 can be sometimes described as preoccupied with death and dying.(Moreso than other numbers..). Just a thought.. not sure if I think that there are 8 Horcruxes... Also, Harry as a Horcrux- could this be an explanation as to how LV was able to "get inside" Harry in Phoenix? Because he's already sort of there?

i cannot see any logic or truth in the harry-is-a-horcrux theory for one reason, a power that dumbledore stood by and believed in beyond all others a power greater than all others, the only power that works against power like voldemort's;

love

did dumbledore not say that voldemort found it physically agonising to posses harry because of all the love that is within him. surely a part of voldemorts soul would follow the same rule

Maline--

I love your articles...they are always thought-provoking and well-written. I'm hoping for a summer article!.

Maline, this is a message from the publisher of a US newspaper. Please, we are interested in your help regarding Harry Potter upcoming book 7. Please, send me an owl (laisla) in order to give you my e-mail address.
Thanks
Gustavo

I like the well thought out editorial, but there are things that make it seem impossible that Harry's scar is a horcrux. I don't know if I'm right or not about this, but if there is a prophacy that states that neither Voldemort or Harry can survive while the other dies than doesn't that ruin that theory? If Voldemort has a horcrux, than Harry has to kill him. I'm not saying both can't die, Harry could die after he kills him from something else, but they can't both die at eachothers hands am I right? Unless the prophacy actually means whoever has the horcrux will die, but then why would Voldemort want to kill Harry if he knew he was a horcrux? That would not be good for him at all. I don't know what Rowling has up her sleeve, but I don't think Harry could be a horcrux but I do think there is some signifcance in Harry's scar.

I completely agree with your editorial, I was a big fan of Red Hen's theory BEFORE HBP, after reading HBP I couldn't believe how right on their theory was about LV's immortality....I immediately (after my first read) began to believe that Harry was a horcrux, after re-reading I was more convinced, I know that this is a hot button topic (along with Snape's loyalty the second hotest topic--I also think Snape is loyal to DD) but I think that Harry (his scar) as a horcrux provides the most fantastic and jaw dropping ending for the series..I also agree that it fits well with Harry "vanquishing" not "killing" the Dark Lord.

It would be beyong belief for Harry to beat Voldemort in a duel based on skill alone...Harry's dueling skills are not the power the Dark Lord knows not..it is love and Harry's manifestation of love by his courageous and loyal acts which set Harry apart.

I think there is not enough time for Harry to find and destroy 4 horcrux objects AND then LV's soul...I think that there will be in fact 2 objects to destroy...the Hufflepuff cup (Z. Smith may know about it...Harry needs to read 'Nature's Nobility' at 12 Grimmauld Place) and something of Ravenclaw's (the weasley tiara...the olivander wand...). I think the locket has LIKELY already been destroyed as a horcrux by RAB. JKR has many questions to answer and many loose ends to pull together Harry's quest for the horcruxes has to be limited...

I agree that Nagini is likely not a horcrux, that Voldemort never was able to complete the Gryffindor horcrux, and has not abandoned his orginal plan...to use Harry's death to create the Gryffindor horcrux...with Dumbledore out of the way I imagine he plans to use the Gryffibdor sword as was his original intent. (I think JKR was setting up a diversion with DD's speculation about Nagini...DD told us what we needed to know 1) Voldemort was short one horcrux the night he went to kill Harry 2) a living being can be used as a horcrux...thus she sets up the possibility of HTAHT).

Therefore, the final battle could be the battle for Harry's soul..I think this is a great way to end the series...all objects are destroyed and all that stands between Voldemort and complete control of the wizarding world is Harry the last horcrux.

Can't wait for your next article.

Hermoinerocks:

I think Voldemort was unaware that Harry had a bit of his soul until OOTP, that is why the death eaters were ordered not to kill Harry in HBP, IMO Voldemort did not want the death eaters to kill Harry...we assumed Draco was after Harry, when in fact it was Dumbledore Voldemort wanted dead...there was ample opportunity to kill Harry in HBP, it seems Voldemort has another plan for Harry...

Voldemort wants Harry for himself...I believe Voldemort wants to kill Harry to create his last horcrux and to remedy his mistake when he accidentally transferred a bit of his soul into Harry...that is if indeed he is aware that Harry is a horcrux... If he is not aware of Harry as a horcrux he still needs to kill Harry himself if he desires to create the Gryffindor horcrux (if you believe that Nagini is not a horcrux and Voldemort still desires to create a Gryffindor horcrux to correspond to 4 houses and 4 elements).

Hope this isn't too confusing...

Lots of speculation...but this is just a theory.

I have only one problem with Harry being the last horcrux. Since Harry, or someone has to destroy all of the horcruxs before they destroy the part of LVs soul that is in his body, then Harry will have to die first if he is a horcrux. How in the will he kill or vanquish LV if he is dead? I feel kind of silly even writing this because I'm sure someone has addressed it already.

Ha Ha, I just had a brain fart! What if Harry dies and decides to become a Hogwarts ghost, he could be the new DADA teacher! He'd be there forever!! The curse is lifted:clap:

I think I must be overdosing on sweet cherries, I've been eating them nonstop all morning, someone stop me!

As the killing curse Voldemort used on baby Harry was reversed...what if the Horcrux magic was as well? What if there is a horcrux of Harry's soul out there? Perhaps buried in the rubble of Godric's Hollow!

It will be the plot device that gives Harry what is called in comic books a "power up".

An interesting theory, Maline, but i disagree. Yes, I agree that the soul does split every time you kill, but only if you actually kill, so I find my first problem here
"Thirdly, he tries to kill Harry and the soul is split a third time, only this time, Lily's sacrifice makes the death curse rebound upon himself, killing his body... Meanwhile, the piece of soul that broke off when he Avada Kedavraed Harry has nowhere to go, because the host Voldy does no longer exist. The piece of soul then goes into Harry... manifesting itself as a scar on his forehead"
Simply shooting the Avada Kedavra Curse at Harry would not split Voldemort's soul, and if the other soul pieces were, indeed, reattached after killing Lily and James, then there is no possible way that Harry's Scar could be a Horcrux.
Another question, could Voldemort really store a piece of his soul in a vessel that contains the single power that can vanquish him? Anyways, I just started reading your column and I have found many of your theories interesting and insightful. This one, however, I do not believe can be true...sorry

Personaly I have to agree with jstokes15 in the whole soul splitting idea. In Slughorn's memory he had explaind to Tom that killing does split the soul but a spell is needed to encase the torn part:

"How do you split your soul?" [Tom asked]
"Well," said Slughorn uncomfortably, "you must understand that the soul is supposed to remain intact and whole. Splitting it is an act of violation, it is against nature."
"But how do you do it?"
"By an act of evil -- the supreme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion--"
"Encase? But how--?"
"There is a spell, do not ask me, I don't know!" (Pg. 498 American Hardcover)

So the idea of a random peice of a soul flying onto Harry's forehead seems a little wierd to me. Also, Dumbledore says "to confide a part of your soul to something that can think and move for itself is abviously a very risky business." And Harry is most likely smarter and FAR less obedient to Voldemort than Nagini, so he (if he were actually a Horcrux) would have probably unknowingly killed it.

I've been reading you articles for the past few days and I finaly caught up, and I've really liked most of them... but this one was just a little to far fetched to be true. Thank you.

Hmmmm, I don't think Harry can be a horcrux, but it would be a nice little twist to the story. As I understand it, to make a Horcrux one needs to use some sort of spell to complete the process. Voldy could not have done so in his condition. But I have an idea about what the last Horcrux may be. Dumbledore tells us that Voldy would have wanted to use items of some significance (i.e., Slytherin's locket, Hufflepuff's cup, etc.), but we also know that Voldy is clever as well. The scene in which Voldy returns to Hogwarts in order to ask Dumbledore for a teaching position is a critical event. Indeed, Dumbledore tells Harry that he believed Voldy was up to something more than obtaining employment. What if Voldy did make a Horcrux while he was there? What if the missing Horcrux was right under Dumbledore's nose all the time? Wouldn't that be the ultimate jokes-on-you moment for Voldy? What if the missing Horcrux is the griffin shape brass door knocker on Dumbledore's door? To my knowledge, there has been only one time this brass door knocker is mentioned or described (CoS, 204), and I can't help feel that this was JK's suttle little hint, for it is never mentioned again. Just an idea...I have others but I think I'll submit for concideration an editorial. Good job on the editorial Maline--keep up the good work.

Hey Maline!

I'm new to the forums and I just wanted to say I think your ideas are interesting, well formulated, and convincingly written.

Your last post on Horcruxes was particularly convincing- I too am a Harry-is-a-Horcrux theorist. I think it would be very Jo-like if Harry was to succeed by overcoming The Demon Within. It would also fit in with Harry's personal struggles (his grief over his parents, his anger at becoming famous/ popular/ hated, having his emotions boiling near the surface all the time etc). For Harry to vanquish Voldemort by overcoming something that was inside of him could also be symbollic of Harry finally maturing and dealing with his personal struggles. I think for the trio to discover a new spell to kill Voldemort at the last minute would be a complete cop-out.

The way you explained your ideas with the scene at Godric's Hollow is interesting, and very plausible. As you said, it does rely on a lot of 'If's', and the bulk of it is mostly just speculation- but again, it is plausible. It explains just why some of Voldemort's power was transferred into Harry, and why they share that mental link. So far Dumbledore has mentioned this link to Harry, but hasn't gone into any depths to explain WHY or HOW this link occurred. Perhaps Dumbledore was aware of the true significance of Harry's scar, but didn't impart this knowledge to Harry as he didn't feel Harry was ready to deal with it- remember Harry flipping out in OoTP when he thought Voldemort maybe inside him??
A fragment of Voldemort's soul being split and having to latch onto Harry as a living host also makes sense- providing the soul DOES always split after a murder- otherwise if the newly broken off piece of Voldemort's soul didn't have a host to go to, there would be TWO Vapormort's lurking around.

I think that particular killing was intended to create the Gryffindor Horcrux since it occurred in Godric's Hollow (it's glaringly obvious from the name of the village, and the fact that Harry was put into Gryffindor, that Godric's Hollow has something to do with Godric Gryffindor). The question is, is Voldemort now aware that Harry's scar is a Horcrux, or is he still ignorant of this, and gone ahead and found something else belonging to Godric Gryffindor to use to harness a piece of his soul??

Personally I think if Harry's scar IS a Horcrux then Voldemort probably is aware of it by now, giving him a serious advantage over Harry. Maybe this is along the lines of how Harry has power which Voldemort doesn't understand- he knows a great deal more than Harry about the Horcruxes, but ultimately Harry will succeed by making a chivalrous decision on what to do with his scar as a Horcrux- a decision based on love.

i do not think Harry or his scar is a horocrux. First off when Dumbledore was explaining to Harry about horocruxes, he said "However if my calculations are correct, Voldemort was still atleast one horocurx short of his goal of six when he entered your parents' house with the intention of killing you."

Since Voldemort did not succeed in killing Harry that means that he still was one death short of making another horocrux and it is unlikely that he made harry a horcrux.

I had never thought about the fact that the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow and how that related to Gryffindor. I did like that you said that Harry won't kill Voldemort with magic. He is too pathetic. He can't even beat Snape. There was one thing you said that bothered me however. You kept saying that Dumbledore thought there was a horcrux made out of somthing of Ravenclaw's and Gryffindor's. He really only thought that there was either somthing of Ravenclaw's or somthing of Gryffindor's, not both. I don't believe that Harry is a horcrux but if he is and Voldemort is aware of it, why on earth would Voldemort be trying to kill Harry.

OK, I must admit, I do not think Harry is a Horcrux, for reasons that have little to do with my reply. You make a good argument; unfortunately, it's based somewhat on a misconception on your part. You said that Harry thinks there is a Gryffindor Horcrux and a Ravenclaw Horcrux. However, in the mantra of sorts that Harry repeats over and over in his mind after Dumbledore's death, listing the Horcruxes, the line is something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's, suggesting that LV got either a G. relic or an R. relic, not both.

OK, I must admit, I do not think Harry is a Horcrux, for reasons that have little to do with my reply. You make a good argument; unfortunately, it's based somewhat on a misconception on your part. You said that Harry thinks there is a Gryffindor Horcrux and a Ravenclaw Horcrux. However, in the mantra of sorts that Harry repeats over and over in his mind after Dumbledore's death, listing the Horcruxes, the line is something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's, suggesting that LV got either a G. relic or an R. relic, not both.

Yes, but you are assuming the knowledge Harry believes about the horcruxes is accurate. The plot twist of every book so far has been that Harry operates under false assumptions for nearly the entire book before getting into some sort of confrontation which leaves himself badly injured and his friends worse off or dead. Voldemort could easily have both a gryffindor and a ravenclaw relic as a horcruxe, or neither. Or two of one of them.

I firstly would like to apologize if I repeated something that someone said. I personallu don't believe Harry is a Horcrux. Although what has been said seems logical to a point. Maline assumes that by simply using the killing curse and succeeding in killing someone splits ones soul, yes according to Slughorn that is true, but at the same time to create a Horcrux a spell or ritual must be involved or a combination of both, whether before or after the death. I see no reason that Voldemort would make Harry a Horcrux and I don't think Horcruxes can be created accidentally, and even for argument sake he made Harry a Horcrux, why would he? I mean he already had previous Horcruxes to secure him in case such a situation should arise, and even so according to Dumbledore his last Horcrux was to be created after succeeding in killing Harry and by making Harry a Horcrux then he couldn't kill him now could he? Another point I want us to look at too is wat Dumbledore had said about placing a piece of one's soul in a living object, why is it not recommended? Maybe Harry would be someone linked to Voldermort. We see this in the previous book where Harry shared Voldermort's feelings and emotions and was able to see what he was doing like when he was possessing Nagini. Would Voldermort make Harry a Horcrux then, no I don't think so. Here's evidence

'So tell me, Harry.' said Dumbledore. 'Your scar...has it been hurting you at all?'
Harry raised a hand unconscioulsy to his forehead and rubbed the lightning-shaped mark.
'No,' he said, 'and I've been wondering about that. I thought it would be burning all the time now Voldermort's getting so powerful again.'
He glanced up at Dumbledore and saw that he was wearing a stisfied expression.
'I, on the other hand thought otherwise,' said Dumbledore. 'Lord Voldermort has finally realised the dangerous access to his thoughts and feelings you have been enjoying. It appears that he has been now employing Occulmency against you.' So you see I don't think Voldermort would do that. So I don't think that Harry could be a Horcrux.

A horcrux can't be created accidentally. In Slughorn's memory, he tells Riddle that once you split your souk, there is a spell to encase it in an object. So, unless Voldy said that spell every single time he killed someone, there's no way he'd have more then he intended to have. I do agree, however, with how Dumbledore will have been wrong about something . After all, he did say, "...I may be as woefully wrong as Humphrey Belcher, who believed the time was ripe for a cheese cauldron.....my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger [being cleverer than most men]. It would make an exciting twist in the book if he was wrong about something. At this point Harry has a plan created around all that we think we know now. If he were to discover a mistake in the creation of the plan, it would throw him off track. Very dramatic. As for the Harry-is-a-horcrux thing, I don't believe it. It goes with how a horcrux can't be created accidentally. And remember that Dumbledore said that Voldemort was going to make his last horcrux with Harry's death. So, if it had gone as he [Voldy] planned, he would have killed Harry, said the spell, and encased that piece of his soul in whatever he wanted the last horcrux to be. As it happened, he never had a chance to say the spell, so he never had the chance to make Harry the horcrux. I don't see anyway that Harry could logically be a horcrux.

Exaclty.

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on your inventiveness.

Secondly I would like to refute such claims, I will say why. As stated in Slughorn's true shameful account of Voldemorts inquisitions about Horcruxes,(HPB) a Horcrux is a piece of soul stored within another object, and as Dumbledore has stated that he suspected that Voldemort collected things of, I say for the want of a better word, sentimental value, ie things associated with the founders of Hogwarts, his one true home. So as I have said Voldemort prefered his Horcruxes to be associated with the founders of Hogwarts, Cup, Locket, ring etc. Now as found in magick moste evile "of the Horcrux, wickedest of magical inventions, we shall not speak nor give direction..." Now as with Levicorpus and Sectumsempra, we have learnt that spells can be invented!! To transfer a peice of soul to a specific object, one would assume with more than certainty, that it would require powerful magic therefore would be a spell so a split soul couldnt just manifest in the nearest object, material or living creature. So getting back to the Hogwarts objects, one would assume that Voldemort had one with him, or knew where to obtain one quickly, the night he intended to murder Harry and make his last Horcrux and procuring the status of unchallengable (by murdering the prophised chosen one) if he did indeed intend to make his Final Horcrux that night. The prophesy states than "neither can live whilst the other survives" meaning than, if you read it and dont assume that everything JK puts to paper is a serious twisting puzzling challenge of human comprehension, then you would know that it means than when one dies the other will live, Voldemort knew that much which is why he tried to kill Harry, why make him a Horcrux knowing that he could never live whilst Harry is alive. You may all say that Voldemort did this knowing that if he was killed by Harry that as long as Harry was living he had a chance to return, WRONG, firstly if he did return, then again the prophesy reigns true, neither can live whilst the other survives, His last remain peice of soul (Harry as some assume) could then be killed and he would be gone forever, and if Harry knew this he is noble enough to top himself to be rid of Voldemort once and for all, how poetic yet I dont think this will happen. Secondly if Harry is a Horcrux (yes it would explain alot about his connection with Voldemort, yet I dont believe it) the last piece of Voldemorts soul would reside in Harry, how could he get it out without a body, he would need a piece of soul to regenerate (as in GoF) and the last bit is in Harry supposedly, so dead end there, he could posses Harry and by some form or another kill Harry from within and become him or regenerate another way but yet again wrong, as Dumbledore said to Harry in OoTP that there is a room in the department of mysteries that is always kept locked because it contains the most powerful 'power'(sorry couldnt think of a better word) imaginable and Dumbledore said that Harry has this in abundance and that is why when in OoTP Voldemort tried to posses Harry it nearly killed him, he could not reside in a body filled with the power he hates. Therefor if Voldemort did make Harry a Horcrux he could not come back because he cannot reside in Harry and I believe even if Harry was once a Horcrux he would no longer be because I believe that as I have stated earlier that Voldemort could not reside in Harry and I believe that the soul would have died long ago.

I love ALL of her editorials :p , but it's just getting a little boring to have to wait months for every new post. It may be worth it, but I just wish she could post more often

Ok again i'm probably the last to get to this editorial mainly due to the fact that i have about enought time a day to read the meadlines and then listen to mugglecast. To this i also offer the evidence that if i did have the time i would probable be wrighting editorials (ok i know my spelling and grammer sucks but whats a spell checker for) oh the life of a house elf.

Getting back to the edtorial apart from the fact that by the time i had got to read it Joe had already debunked the theory of harry's scar being a horcrux so the first thing i did when reading the first few lines was give a little chuckle, i have to say though that this didn't deter me from reading onwards out of curiosity, wondering if there was any new and unmentioned theories behing this assumption. I'm glad to say that yet again i have maintaines a great amount of information in how other people think and have to say (cause i can't say much more tha has already been said in this forum) that this did almost have me convinsed and if only i haddn't already been told the truth (again thank you mugglecast) then i would be just waiting to see how harry would solve this problem. all i can say now is when is that next editorial. hopefully i will get to read it within a week of posting lol.

Where has the North Tower gone? I was on Mugglenet today wanting to reread The Crux of it All and The North Tower has disappeared. What happened?

this is my guess on the whole horcrux situation...

If Harry somehow stabbed his scar he could possibly kill the Horcrux but still live. (ex. The tom Riddle Diary, Harry stabbed the diary and killed the Horcrux but the diary was still there, it was still a book/diary in its original form and it's original purpose). Just like Harry, he has been marked and may have some of Voldemorts soul in his scar and all he has to do is get rid of the scar or whatever is residing in it. Harry is not a Horcrux just his scar is. So the question is HOW do you get rid of the scar without Hurting Harry?

Do you get what I mean, "kill the scar but not harry" you don't have to kill harry in order to kill the scar, you have to go to the source. I just want someone to get a knife or some kind of object and stab it into his forehead and then the Horcrux spell will be gone. But i know its not as simple as it sounds. The scar is a burden for him just like Voldemort is a burden for him. It has been since the beginning of these books.

I don't know but it makes sense to me. But you could argue that the scar is part of Harry, making Harry a Horcrux...but that just takes me back to the point of the whole tom riddle's diary!

It's a win-win situation for Harry but a painful one, i don't think removing/killing a horcrux is nice and easy. Harry will not die, but he will suffer...A lot.

please do tell me what you think...thanks a bunch

Maline,

Your articles are always excellent and intriguing - thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

I'd like to offer some thoughts on why Harry's scar is the 6th and final horcrux. Let's start back at the prophesy:

"The One with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies.... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

“…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal…”

How many times in the series has JKR told us something outright, and we have taken it figuratively while the more informative interpretation would be to also take it literally? Think back to Goblet of Fire when Winky was struggling to walk through the woods at the Quidditch World Cup…

“Winky the house-elf was fighting her way out of a clump of bushes nearby. She was moving in a most peculiar fashion, apparently with great difficulty; it was as though someone invisible were trying to hold her back.” (GOF p124)

Harry reasonably assumed that she couldn’t run properly because “she didn’t ask permission to hide”, remembering Dobby and that “Every time he tried to do something the Malfoy’s wouldn’t like, the house-elf had been forced to start beating himself up. (GOF p124).

In reality, someone invisible WAS trying to hold her back – Barty Crouch Jr., under an invisibility cloak. Winky had magically bound him to herself, and she was dragging him away from the Death Eaters at the campsite, while Crouch Jr. was fighting against her to go back to the campsite to attack the Death Eaters to punish them for their lack of loyalty to the Dark Lord.

Getting back to the prophesy…

“…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal…”

Many of us have interpreted this line to mean that Voldemort “marked” Harry as his magical equal by transferring some of his own powers to the infant, and yes, Harry was left with a visible scar. What if Lord Voldemort literally “marked” Harry – that is, he put his mark (his signature, or at least his initials) on Harry? Check out JKR’s vision of Harry’s lightening Bolt scar on jkrowling.com. She showed it to us a while back when Peeves blew through the Links room and broke the picture to the left of the bookcase.

Remember when Tom Riddle rearranged the letters of his name in Chamber of Secrets? Let’s rearrange this “lightening bolt” mark and see what else is there…

30513

Scary, huh?

Now what about the part where he marked him as his equal?

Given what we now know about horcruxes (they are a repository for a fragment of soul), many have speculated that Harry’s scar is Voldemort’s sixth and final horcrux. If Voldemort were trying to make his final horcrux with Harry’s murder, and assuming all would have gone according to his plan, then when he split his soul that final time, the remaining soul fragment left in his human body would be equal to the portion of soul he placed in the 6th horcrux.

We know, however, that whatever spell he used at Godric’s Hollow (Avada Kedavra, or some horcrux-creating spell) did not work as he had planned. Voldemort became the disembodied Vapormort, but there is no indication whether Vapormort left Godric’s Hollow with the full amount of soul that Voldemort took with him into the Potter house. He did tell his Death Eaters in the cemetery that he “was ripped from [his] body, [he] was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost.” (GOF p653). Sure sounds like part of his soul was gone along with his body.

But where did it go? Into the newly-formed scar on young Harry Potter’s forehead. IN the mark on his forehead.

“…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal…”

Harry Potter’s soul and Lord Voldemort’s soul are not intertwined within Harry – Harry’s soul is IN him, and Voldemort’s soul fragment is ON him. As Dumbledore said to himself when examining the smoke serpent emanating from the fragile silver instrument in his office in OOTP (p470) “But in essence divided?”

If Voldemort’s soul fragment had melded with Harry’s soul, Harry would have been more than equal to Voldemort, because he now had his own soul plus one half of Voldemort’s pre-Godric’s Hollow soul, while Vapormort only had the other half of his pre-Godric’s Hollow soul.

I also agree with the folks who noted that Voldemort has avoided killing Harry because he doesn't want to sacrifice the piece of his soul stuck to Harry's forehead. I believe that Voldemort realized in OOTP that Harry's scar was indeed his 6th horcrux, and therefore he needed to be more careful in planning Harry's demise. Throughout HBP, Voldemort is likely trying to figure out how to transfer this horcrux to another vessel, and so has issued the order to his Death Eaters that Potter belongs to him. Dumbledore, on the other hand, was a priority target for Voldemort in HBP since Dumbledore had been the one not only leading the fight against Voldemort, but also the one strengthening Harry with knowledge and insight into how to defeat Voldemort.

My next step is to review PS/SS Chapter 1 and Dumbledore's discussion with McGonagall regarding Harry's scar. Anyone else have other suggestions of passages that might be worth rereading for this theory?

Where has the North Tower gone? I was on Mugglenet today wanting to reread The Crux of it All and The North Tower has disappeared. What happened?

Yeah, what's up? Don't we even get a goodbye column from Maline? :(

Were are you Maline? We want to know what happened. Please let us know, are you still writing on the North Tower?

I have been wondering for months if anyone who has been fortunate enough over the years to read Red Hen Publications editorials on HP (which I have) would ever expose that fact that Maline's "writings" have at best (or how shall I say this diplomatically?) very, um inspired (sometimes word-for-word verbatim) by Red Hen Publications work.
http://www.redhen-publications.com/Wandmaking.html

It borders on plagerism but she changes just enough and inserts her own wording and ideas just enough to protect it from being too blatantly guilty of that.

Hey Maline, this is my first post on cos. I read your #44 'The Crux of it All'. I don't quite agree with the idea of Harry being a Horcrux.At least not the way you have suggested. "then he tried to kill harry and his soul split athird time????????? How?? Didn't Slughorn say quite clearly that you need to kill someone in order to split your soul... voldy didn't actually kill harry ,he tried .... but he failed. So his soul didNOT split 3 times. Also the finale of Ootp shows us that voldy couldn't stay inside harry(for afew seconds) even though at that time he had harry's blood running in his veins.So voldy's soul in harry at the time when his mother had died to save him and voldy couldn't even touch him is quite impossible.

Hi Maline !!i Think U Did A Great Job On This Editorial It Really Got Me Thinking About All The Distractions In Book 6 And Jk Repititions With A Twist .like The Major One Teacher Fools Dumbledore And Is Working For Voldemort .i Think Snape Was A Major Distraction In Book 6 Because I Think She Tried To Fool Us To Believing He Is Just Another Imposster But He Cant Be Because Thats Already Been Done To Death !!!anyway I Think U Have Got It Right With Harry Has Part Of Voldemorts Soul !i Think That His Scar Was An Opening And A Piece Of His Soul Went Inside His Head That Night The Connection Between Them Is Too Strong .i Think Dumbledore Knew This All Along Ever Since The Firth Book When Took Out That Smoke Thing And It Showed There Soul Combined And Lied To Harry To Protect Him Thinking That He Will Find Out Himself !! Izzie

Maline, I would like to say that I have a piece of info that I believe helps your theory. I'm not sure if anyone else has said it, but I haven't seen it anywhere. On page 379 - 380 in HBP When Hermoine and Harry are talking with Hagrid, Hagrid says that Dumbledore had an argument with Snape; An argument in which he said that Snape had to do what he'd agreed and that there was no getting out of it. I personally believe Snape had told Dumbledore of the Unbreakable Vow, and as you said, Dumbledore knew he was dying. Dumbledore told Snape that is he must, he has to do it. Just an idea. That scene always intrigued me because it slipped in under the Radar so easily. I could be wrong. I'm not sure. Any reply would be awesome (E-mail or whatever, The_Legendary_Joker@Hotmail.com is my E-mail, but I'm not even sure if you still check on this site so.) Thanks in Advance for your attention to this matter.

Don't worry a lot of people have worried about exactly the same thing - you are not alone as this conversation casts doubt on the loyalty - or lack of - of Snape. Did Albus know or did he not know that he was dying from the effects of the poton in the bowl in the cave??????