Harry Potter and Narnia: Magic, Morals, and More

For those of us who've read both the Harry Potter series and the complete Chronicles of Narnia, I'm interested in hearing how the two compare. Both sets of books have an ultimate battle between good and evil, sometimes with an unexpecting hero. Both series use magic in some form, and both have a strong set of morals behind the scenes.

So, what's your opinion? What's the better book, and why? Which book has the better message for our time, and what is that message?

Discuss!

Oh wow- what a great thread!
I think Narnia has stronger moral ideas because it was written with such strong Chrisitian influences. As to what the message is it's so obvious that I can't quite put my finger on it! lol.

well...i..uhh...i havent read but half of the first narnia book, but!!! i can say that, they both had magic in them, umm....yea like that person ^ said about the chrisitan morals.....should i finish reading the series??

The HP novels would seem to have messages that are more representative and relevant to society at large. The Narnia novels present a message which is really only relevant and can be genuinely appreciated by those that have the same religious beliefs. Considering the decreasing importance of religion to western civilisation I would have to say that the HP books present the more important messages.

i was read narnia as a child and from what i can remember the magic seems a little more complicated than it does in harry, like the rings in the magicians newphew (the first book) does that make sense? it does in my head! in harry they literally 'wave' a wand where in narnia thety don't seem to do that.

the moral ground seems to be the same- good defeats evil.

Filius- I think the Narnia books are worth reading, even if you're just reading them to experience the testament to a great piece of literature for that time period. They're relatively quick reads (at least in comparison to the Harry Potter books) and they're a good thing to have read, just so you know about them.

I was also thinking about the aspect of history in both the books. JK Rowling has spent so much time creating back stories for all her characters, but she hasn't really made a history, per se, for the wizarding world (I'm thinking like the appendicies that J.R.R. Tolkien made for his Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and the detail he went into in general to have the readers know about the background of his fantasy world). For the Narnia books, we're THERE for the history. Does it matter that we don't have a history for the Harry Potter books, since it's not a fantasy world, just sort of a parallel one?

The HP novels would seem to have messages that are more representative and relevant to society at large. The Narnia novels present a message which is really only relevant and can be genuinely appreciated by those that have the same religious beliefs. Considering the decreasing importance of religion to western civilisation I would have to say that the HP books present the more important messages.

I have to disagree that the message of Narnia can only be relevant to one religion. There's not just one message in Narnia. It's full of messages like: it's bad to be mean and spiteful to your sister, slavery is wrong, shirking your responsibilities may bite you in the end, being greedy isn't nice or healthy, leaders may be corrupt, and stuff like that. It's so full of messages that some of them aren't relevant to any religion, such as you'll regret it if you leave your socks and shoes behind, and school usually makes you worse off than you were to start with. And some are just annoying like girls shouldn't fight with swords because they're girls,

Compared to HP, Narnia books are shallow and the characters are flat. HP books maybe seem to have more depth because they are drawn out with an excess of day to day details and they go on for months of time. Apart from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Narnia adventures comprise days or weeks, with back story thrown in here and there. And Narnia books are dated, though they may have been set in a more "present time" when they were written. Maybe HP sounds more relevent because it happens in the 1990's? I don't know. Anyway, I'm not sure that getting deeper into the details of the characters and following them more minutely over time that seems closer to the present makes the messages more representative and relevant to society at large.

Compared to HP, Narnia books are shallow and the characters are flat. HP books maybe seem to have more depth because they are drawn out with an excess of day to day details and they go on for months of time. Apart from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Narnia adventures comprise days or weeks, with back story thrown in here and there. And Narnia books are dated, though they may have been set in a more "present time" when they were written. Maybe HP sounds more relevent because it happens in the 1990's? I don't know. Anyway, I'm not sure that getting deeper into the details of the characters and following them more minutely over time that seems closer to the present makes the messages more representative and relevant to society at large.

In another fifty years, the HP books may appear dated to the audience reading them, just as the Narnia books appear dated to today's audience. At the time they were written, they were probably seen as quite relavent to the audience that was reading them when they were first published since those people almost certainly remembered what it was like for children who were evacuated as a result of WWII.

There are certainly a lot of similarities between these 2 series. Aslan and Dumbledore are similar characters, both die, but we will have to see if Dumbledore returns from the dead like Aslan. The children in Narnia receive some magic, but they are not magic, where the children in the wizarding world have magic powers and can do many different things with their magic. They are all fighting a war with evil, but they really do fight an army in Narnia. I just don't see Voldermort walking though London with an army of giants or other creatures. He is a terrorist, more of the hit and run type.

i agree with dobbysfriend, they are very different wars at very different times.

thou IMHO i really don't see how someone can call these much loved classics irrelvant because they don't go as deep as harry potter.

they are short books not the wonderfully long volumes we get with harry. some people (i'm not sure that i am one of them) would say that the narina books are more acessable to younger readers as they are alot less intimidating

So, what's your opinion? What's the better book, and why? Which book has the better message for our time, and what is that message?

Discuss!

I recently returned to lurking on the 'boards here, and came across your post. As everyone can probably tell from my username, I'm a definite Chronicles fan. To me, it is somewhat unfair to compare the two books, as I don't think the authors set out to do similar things via their writing. However, for the sake of discussion, I'll put my 2 cents in.

As for the "better" message, I'd have to go with Lewis' Chronicles. Though they were never meant for straight allegory, they do carry and present the Christian message, which is the most important message of any time. Lewis, to me, also wrote technically better as well; talking about form and literature. This last point though could owe a lot to the fact that the authors' audiences were/are very different. To reach today's average kid, it takes a different style than it did back in Lewis' day, and Rowling is Queen of today's style.

I love the Chronicles, and really like Harry Potter. Tolkien is easier for me to compare with Rowling, as they seem to be somewhat more similar in point and writing style...they are going for broad themes; bravery, salvation from unexpected places, hope, friendship, redemption, etc... where Lewis definitely was going for more specifics, more direct ties to Christianity.

That being said, I owe many hours of joyous reading to both authors!

Aslan and Dumbledore are similar characters, both die, but we will have to see if Dumbledore returns from the dead like Aslan.

Rowling has said (in her Aug. 2006 appearances in New York City) that Dumbledore will not 'pull a Gandalf'. I think, then, that he's dead for good.

However, I think the analogy to Aslan still holds. Aslan died in the place of Edmund, who had betrayed his brother and sisters. I think an argument could be made that Dumbledore died to protect Draco, who had betrayed his fellow students by bringing Death Eaters, including Greyback, into Hogwarts.

I actually see a significant contrast between HP and Narnia.

My enjoyment of the Narnia books faded as they progressed for a very basic reason; not only did the characters not grow or develop, they were punished for it. Susan was basically exiled and damned- picture Eve being cast forth from paradise- for the heinous sin of becoming a woman. It is made quite clear that only characters who maintain childlike innocence and faith are welcome- all others are abandoned.

This is a direct contrast to HP, in which the main characters' entire journey is one from innocence to adulthood, complete with the very real, messy, emotional, difficult, human- and sometimes sexual- nature of normal adolescence and maturation. Hermione is not cast forth for dating Krum, for instance, nor is Harry demoted as main male hero for having googly eyes for Cho.

The Trio wouldn't have lasted long with Aslan.

;)

Seriously, though, as much as I liked the first three Narnia books (original lineup- LWW, Caspian, Dawn Treader), the stagnation and abandonment of the characters and the refusal to change the narrative tone to reflect greater maturity (one thing I think Jo did perfectly) eventually turned me off from the series.

I actually see a significant contrast between HP and Narnia.

My enjoyment of the Narnia books faded as they progressed for a very basic reason; not only did the characters not grow or develop, they were punished for it. Susan was basically exiled and damned- picture Eve being cast forth from paradise- for the heinous sin of becoming a woman. It is made quite clear that only characters who maintain childlike innocence and faith are welcome- all others are abandoned.

It is always interesting to me how different people can view the exact same event in different ways. Susan, to me, actually reverted to a more childish state; namely through vanity. Something, under her own control, pushed her from the path, and the reader is left not knowing if Susan will make it to Aslan's Country/Heaven. Too, I see huge growth in the other characters, esp. those like Edmund and Eustace.

The difference I see in the books, and one of the reasons I don't think they can be directly compared, is that JKR follows one set of characters through the whole series. One of the whole points of the Potter books is to show a child growing up in several ways, one of which is a literal physical growing up...that was not a theme of Lewis' work. Because of this, JKR changed certain aspects of what she included in the books based on the characters' ages and the corresponding changes in the age of her readers, again Lewis wasn't going for that. So, both authors, IMO achieved their respective goals.

My enjoyment of the Narnia books faded as they progressed for a very basic reason; not only did the characters not grow or develop, they were punished for it. Susan was basically exiled and damned- picture Eve being cast forth from paradise- for the heinous sin of becoming a woman. It is made quite clear that only characters who maintain childlike innocence and faith are welcome- all others are abandoned.

I've read something similar that Philip Pullman said about Narnia and gets me more than a little bit cross. Susan was in no way exiled or damned, and is nothing like Eve. I certainly do not think that was CSLewis' intention. She merely stopped believing in Narnia, because she grew up into the sort of immaturity that some people go through in their late teens/early twenties.
BUT nowhere does it say that she would not be welcome into Narnia, or the heaven which Narnia represents, once she 'dies'. I also do not think any of the other main characters show a 'childlike innocence' but are in fact very mature and intelligent, especially Diggory.
I also think it's incorrect to deny any character development in the books. When we first see Lucy she's a young girl who has to go through some tough times, makes some bad decisions, but in the end grows into a young lady who is wise, mature, and a good teacher.
And Eustace completely changed his character throughout the books, as did Edmund: the best example I can think of is in Prince Caspian, when Edmund believes Lucy when she sees Aslan: a far cry from the spoilt brat of Lion, witch and wardrobe. Jill also grows up a great deal from frightened, bullied schoolgirl to plucky warrior fighting in the last battle.
CSLewis will always be my favourite books, and i could go on for hours talking about it but best not :)

The trio of Harry, Ron and Hermiome are central to all the Harry Potter books, after all it is called "Harry Potter and........" The Narnia books are about a place, Narnia, with different characters found at different times. Narnia is about the land and culture with people put in it, while the Harry Potter books are about people with the culture of the wizard world placed around them.

I, too, love the CS Lewis books. I do think it is difficult to compare, because as has been already stated several times, both series of books do not seek to come to the same conclusions, nor do they choose the same routes to reach them. Which is fine by me because then they would be too similar and not as enjoyable to read.
I think it is important to take into account that while characters in the Lewis books are supposed to retain a child-like faith, that is a major component in Christian theology. Jesus said that we must be like the little children if we hope to enter heaven, and seeing as the Chronicles of Narnia were supposed to parallel many Biblical themes and show them in ways children could understand, I do not think it a bad thing. I don't agree with Susan being like Eve in any way, as her choice was to reduce her once soild belief in Narnia to childhood stories and make-believe. The point was to show that while some people do believe, it doesn't mean that they will always believe. It is important to show that people don't "pick a side and stick to it" but rather that they can go back and forth for all of their lives. We are left not knowing which way Susan will choose.
We see the same sort of things in Harry Potter, as well. Regardless of your view on Severus Snape, at this point we don't know for sure which side he will ultimately choose. HBP left him in a similar place as I see Susan.

Susan was basically exiled and damned- picture Eve being cast forth from paradise- for the heinous sin of becoming a woman. It is made quite clear that only characters who maintain childlike innocence and faith are welcome- all others are abandoned.


Everyone sees things from a different landscape. I always felt that Susan was closer kin to Wendy who grew up and began her own family. I never felt that she was maligned or damned in anyway for doing what people are supposed to do...grow up.
Narnia and HP to me aren't really the same type of book although they are within the same genre. HP is closer to the Lord of the Rings or even the Dark Tower series being a quest and the battle of good against evil. Narnia was sweet even when it dealt with "evil" things. I love the Chronicles and have read my set ragged over the years but those books in no way give me the same feeling that HP does.

I think the closest thing that you could say is alike in these two different books is the fact that the characters had to make choices as to who they would follow. And I haven't really seen, in either book, any character at true war with him/herself trying to decide.
I don't mention Snape in this light only because I tend to think that whatever side he is on he has always been on.

Odd but Susan was my least favorite character. Narnia was to me a fairy tale of epic proportions whereas Harry seems to be more "real" in the sense that the characters are growing up before our eyes.But maybe it is as another poster said JKR writes for today C.S. Lewis wrote for his time and he had an agenda in the message he was trying to send. And I think that makes the children in Narnia look more like cookie cutter people.

C.S. Lewis is wonderful but if you want more depth you need to read "Til We Have Faces".
JKR is wonderful and I am really hoping she will write something else even if it isn't Harry related. Personally I am hoping for "Hogwarts a History" Hermione has all the fun.
:grumble:

I loved (and still do love) the Narnia books. I think they're on a very different level, though. They have similar themes, but Harry Potter seems much more real to me. The books are also "older."
The themes of both are timeless. I don't think we'll know how similar they are--or just what, exactly, Jo was getting at--until we have Book Seven.

I can't believe that anyone could read the Narnia books and think that they are shallow. CS Lewis develops the things that happen to the characters more than the characters themselves I agree, but because he focuses on different aspects doesn't make his books shallow. He knew a lot about mythology, and he used that kind of knowledge in his books.

All the stuff about Susan drives me mad. I don't know why people think that she stayed behind because she was getting older. I think it's all the that phrase, she 'stayed behind'. Susan chose to ignore Naria, and pretend that it had never happened. That was why she didn't come to Aslan's country with the others. That doesn't mean that she never came there.

I think that even though they have the same kind of themes, the books are so different that comparing them is really hard, so I'm going to think about that one before I try and answer it. Watch this space.

I have to stick by shallow,but I bet we don't use that word the same way or think it means the same thing. The different books in the series achieve different depths, but I think so much of what the author is saying stays right on the surface. A lot of the time, he tells it all to you. Like in Magician's Nephew, you don't have to make up your mind about what you think of Digory's actions, or Polly's or the mean Uncle- the author's voice comes in and tells you what he thinks of it all.

That makes sense now, thanks. I think that it's the point of the book that is different. CS Lewis was maybe writing so that younger children could understand - so the characters' motives and feelings are made clear, whereas an eight year old reading the later HP books would probably find it had to see where people were coming from.

I admit that The Chronicles are written to a younger audience, but that does not mean that there is nothing in there for older readers. It's the same with Disney movies. They are made for kids, but there are jokes or references in there that only adults will get. For this reason, i disagree with statements of the "irrevalnce" of the Chronicles.

I do not think they are in the least bit shallow. yes, the main plot is out there for everyone to see. Exactly the same can be said for Harry Potter and indeed every book. But Narnia is capable of allowing you to get something new out of it every single time you read it, or I find this anyway. There is a world of difference between reading it as a child and reading it as an adult. As a child you know what the parallels are with the bible, because it's obvious. But how many people can say as a child that they understood all the far deeper theological ideas running all the way through?

I love HP, Narnia, and LOTR equally because they all have great meaning and Christain message. I agree that Narnia is maybe less sophisticated because it was written for younger children, but others can appreciate it as well. And LOTR and HP are even better, because you have to dig at and debate the meaning - illustrated well by the many-hundred-post "Religion in DH" thread.

As a child you know what the parallels are with the bible, because it's obvious. But how many people can say as a child that they understood all the far deeper theological ideas running all the way through?

This is great, because I think the exact same thing can be said for HP. A lot of people see just the plot and the direct humanist messages, and deny any underlying Christian message. A major difference is that with Narnia, the references are right on top, while in HP you have to dig for them. But they're both there.

I liked the Narnia books but I, too, was upset by the treatment of Susan. Think of how isolated she is by the events occurring in England and Narnia at the end of the series. She grew up. And childlike faith isn't all that great for adults.

So, what's your opinion? What's the better book, and why? Which book has the better message for our time, and what is that message?

I wouldn't want to say which was the better fantasy series, Narnia or HP. It's like comparing apples with oranges. ;)

And to me Tolkien will always be the granddaddy of them all anyway. :cool:

I loved the Narnia books as a child, and I still do. They are utterly enchanting stories and so wonderfully imaginative. I love Lewis's imagination! I do love the Christian symbolism in Narnia. Nobody has ever ever done this better than Lewis.

And I too see Susan's final fate as ambiguous. Although I have some problems about how Lewis wrote this, I don't see her exclusion from Narnia as necessarily permanent or meaning she was damned.

I think that in many ways Lewis is a better writer, stylistically, than Rowling. But she is a wonderful storyteller: her stories, and her world, suck you in.

What I like most about Rowling's HP series is the way she emphasises the importance of moral responsibility and how our choices affect so strongly how our lives turn out. :)

Well obviously theres ONE huge diference the characters. IN the Magician's Nephew we have Digory and Polly. If I remember we don't see them till the 7th one. And then its Edmund Peter Susan and Lucy. Though they re occur a number of time. There are no specific characters who journey we follow thruoght the entire series. And the worlds are different look at them. JKR sets HP in our world wizards and muggles together. But In Narnia Lewis takes us into this whole new world which literally is created in the first one by Aslan. And they're in seperate demensions. This is unlike Potter EXTREMLY. And the whole magical aspect. Theres no wand waving in narnia. But there are magical creatures who speak and different beasts. The series also had no consistent goal throughout. In Narnis each sory is faintly intertwined. In HP the whole stor is locked into one another pretty solidly. I could nit pick for another hour but generally the series have a good similar conspect but ligistically they're far different.

Lewis had a marvellous imagination, as evidenced in both the Chronicles of Narnia and his adult fiction (The Cosmic Trilogy, Till We Have Faces) and could weave a spellbounding tale effortlessly. He was a great writer.

I think, though, that I prefer Jo Rowling's characters to the kids in Narnia, on the whole. Lewis's kids are a bit dated and sometimes annoy me, including Lucy. My favourites are probably Edmund and Eustace, since both boys start out obnoxious and then go through a genuine moral transformation and conversion.

I do sometimes have to wonder about the genuine moral transformation of the Gryffindors. Sometimes I get the impression that Jo thinks that a Gryffindor can do no wrong ... or, rather than a Gryffindor's sins are more easily forgiven than a Slytherin's. :no: For example, the Twins nearly kill Montague with their callous prank in HBP but this is seen as laughable, even admirable. :no: To give two more examples, Hermione Granger and James Potter do not seem to receive little, if any, serious moral correction for their more questionable deeds: or, rather, they themselves never seem to look back on certain acts with genuine remorse (e.g. Hermione's jinxing of the DA list which results in near-permanent scarring for Marietta Edgecombe; James's casual cruelty in his youth towards Snape). Compare the lack of moral comment on the behaviour of Hermione and James with how Rowling treats Severus Snape, Lucius Malfoy and his son Draco. Severus pays an extremely heavy price for his sins: the Malfoys are deliberately diminished by Rowling in Book 7, although the saving grace is that she allows them to illustrate the Power of Love (the enduring theme of the series). Poor Severus is only allowed an impoverished version of the Power of Love: his doomed love for Lily ... although, ironically, it is enough to save Harry.

This is the one thing that really bugs me about Rowling's universe -- her obvious preference for Gryffindor and the way she virtually fangirls the House. In a fantasy series that emphasises so much the importance of making moral choices and assuming moral responsibility, I think that the over-idealisation of her young Gryffindors is a glaring weakness in the strength of her moral vision.

But, I do like Rowling's moody, hormonal teenage wizards. They're very believable. :)

Just a reminder that the rules against character bashing also apply to JK Rowling bashing.

I think there may be enough moral censure of lead good-guy characters in Narnia for both series. :rolleyes: If you get the idea from Rowling's work that rule breaking, lying, practical jokes, teasing/ bullying, and near homicidal negligence are at the very least funny and in some cases heroic, then you can go and read C.S. Lewis, to get some perspective.

I was actually surprised to learn that CS Lewis had had a big effect on JKR and her writing of HP - that's what I've read from one or two different sources, anyway. I know that the Chronicles of Narnia will have been read by at least two generations of authors now when they were children, but I would assume that CS Lewis would simply be one influence amongst many.

My main thinking here is the fact that JKR doesn't adopt the more overtly allegorical and religious tone that Lewis does - there's a moral thread running through the series all right, but that's the case with most children's fantasy literature.

Another divergence is the fact that Harry grows to adulthood through the HP series and has recognisably adolescent thoughts and feelings from POA onwards. Lewis shows us the grown-up Peter, Edmund and Lucy briefly in The Last Battle, but we don't see them maturing - and to be honest, Edmund and Lucy, like Jill and Eustace are probably still only teenagers at this point - not even fully grown-up, since at that time in Britain, you were only considered a true adult at 21. Lewis himself said at one point that he didn't want to bring out a lot of adult themes in his books since they wouldn't add anything for child readers (I'm paraphrasing here from one of his letters.) Looking at all this, I see the worlds of Narnia and HP as loosely linked, but still quite differently evolved from each other.

By the way, for any UK forum users who might be interested, the new TV series 'The Worlds of Fantasy' started on BBC4 at 9pm tonight (Wednesday) and it was about children's fantasy literature - JKR and Lewis were both mentioned, of course. I watched it and it seemed pretty good. Lewis will feature again, this time along with Tolkien, in the second episode.

By the way, for any UK forum users who might be interested, the new TV series 'The Worlds of Fantasy' started on BBC4 at 9pm tonight (Wednesday) and it was about children's fantasy literature - JKR and Lewis were both mentioned, of course. I watched it and it seemed pretty good. Lewis will feature again, this time along with Tolkien, in the second episode.

I missed it! :sad: I was out, and forgot to record. :rolleyes:

I'm definitely watching it next week. :tu:

Perhaps they will repeat on one of the terrestrial channels soon. I hope so.

Looking forward to Tolkien. :)

And I hope HP gets another mention!

Interesting thread, this.....

I have to say that I am with Tolkien on this (see his preface to LotR, composed, I think, with readers' reaction to CS Lewis' work in mind).

I prefer 'applicability' to straight allegory. I find it more liberating to be allowed as a reader to apply my own interpretation to the text. I know that this is possible in the Narnia tales, but you'll generally find that it is easier to apply your own interpretation to these books if you are coming from roughly the same corner as CS Lewis.

Of course, the Narnia Tales generally advocate fairly uncontroversial general values (with the exception of some of the outdated views on women and perhaps also dark-skinned desert-dwelling sort of people which reflect the time rather than bigotry).


Of course, we won't know how well HP holds up in the 'general message' department once it is as old as CS Lewis' work is now.... there is a lot in there that is clearly influenced by events in the UK today (e.g. the worries about the behaviour of the ministry). It also appears to be very much 'in the now', with young people describved in a way that readers of the same age can recognise. Books that are so 'in the now' sometimes date more easily. Will teenagers in 50 years' time recognise these characters so easily? I wonder! I hope so, though..... :) Ultimately, in this respect Tolkien's mythical world has an advantage over both Narnia and Hogwarts!


The interesting thing is that there seems a lot of Christian symbolism in Harry Potter as well, if you want to see it - but it is easier to read these books and identify with its values if you are not Christian. ....

All in all I have found more enjoyment in Harry Potter than in CS Lewis' work - and I should state there that I MUCH prefer Lewis' more adult works (especially the Space Trilogy) to the Narnia tales.....

I missed it! :sad: I was out, and forgot to record. :rolleyes:

I'm definitely watching it next week. :tu:

Perhaps they will repeat on one of the terrestrial channels soon. I hope so.

Looking forward to Tolkien. :)

And I hope HP gets another mention!

Oh dear! I watched the second episode tonight and there was plenty about Tolkien, but no Lewis at all. Sorry Narnia fans - I unintentionally misled you there! HP will be mentioned on next week's episode, as well as Pratchett and others.

Getting back to the main subject now, (before I turn into an advert for a series...) I see a certain amount of Christian imagery in HP - although I think it's only overt in DH. I also feel that although JKR has said she has Christian beliefs, I would call her quite 'liberal' and I wonder (if she has read any of Lewis' other works eg. The Great Divorce or Mere Christianity) how much of it she finds herself agreeing with. There are some fairly strict, old-fashioned Christian ideas in these that many liberal Christians would question - for an obvious example, in Mere Christianity the codes governing ideal male and female behaviour in marriage.

I have to say, I find some of Lewis' notions a little problematic, although I think from what he said, his ideas were broadened after meeting Joyce Davidman, with whom he gained a greater appreciation of what it was to experience love and companionship with someone of the opposite sex. I did enjoy Out of the Silent Planet, (not so much the other two) but I feel Lewis' life and understanding of the world became richer towards the end of his life.

Probably true....

I have to say, I didn't just find his notions (at least in the earlier works) very strict, but also very closely definied by a very specific branch of evangelical protestantism.

Since I grew up in a Catholic tradition some of Lewis' interpretations of Christianity just didn't resonate with me - the differences, funnily enough are in the most part cultural rather than theological, but perhaps all the stronger for that. Narnia boosk don't really sell well where I come from, and I think there is a reason.

The Planet trilogy is, however, a favourite of mine. I think I enjoyed the second book the most. The temptation scene is one of the scariest bits of religious writing I have ever come across (and I mean that in a good way).


JKR's Christian references are much less well defined and therefore also more easily applicable to different traditions of Christianity. Of course, that also means that it has to be more liberal. Strict Christians of any denomination tend to hold beliefs that don't square up entirely with those of other Christians. That's surely sad, but it is unfortunately true....

I think for stories of this kind a more open approach is better. :)

Of course, we won't know how well HP holds up in the 'general message' department once it is as old as CS Lewis' work is now.... there is a lot in there that is clearly influenced by events in the UK today (e.g. the worries about the behaviour of the ministry). It also appears to be very much 'in the now', with young people describved in a way that readers of the same age can recognise. Books that are so 'in the now' sometimes date more easily. Will teenagers in 50 years' time recognise these characters so easily? I wonder! I hope so, though..... :) Ultimately, in this respect Tolkien's mythical world has an advantage over both Narnia and Hogwarts!

That is true; I had never thought about this ... that the same thing that makes HP so popular now (how we can all identify with its main characters) might make it less popular later on. Hmmm...

The interesting thing is that there seems a lot of Christian symbolism in Harry Potter as well, if you want to see it - but it is easier to read these books and identify with its values if you are not Christian. ....

:hmm:
I don't agree with that - maybe if you meant a fundamentalist Christian, who can't get past the use of magic as a conceit. But really, I can't think of any values in HP that aren't Christian (besides how quickly the main characters will lie or do something else small but wrong :no: ). I actually identify with HP more because I'm Christian - there are so many little things throughout the books, little lines here and there, or a certain way of stating things, or Jo's take on stuff like how time works and the power of love - that really make me think. :) That, IMO, is one of the big differences between HP and Narnia: Lewis puts the philosophical base of his story in very plain language, whereas in HP you have to hunt for it a little more. :)

I think the comparason does not have to necessarily be from a religious aspect. I simply find that in Narnia, the universe that the story is in is not nearly as developed as the Potterverse. I read Narnia as both a child and as an Adult and i am not a Christian, never have been so I can't see any of the religious aspects (except in HP DH where Harry dies and is resurrected, and the same with Aslan). I just see the Universe of Harry Potter not only being way more developed, it is also inclusive. We as muggles are included in the universe, and like greek mythology, there are reasons for everythinng. I think that with Narnia, we as readers are not only excluded from the universe, but must accept everything and ask no questions. It's been a while, since I've read Narnia so I could be wrong, but even in the more modern movie interpretations, not much is explained.

Interesting that you should talk about development of the two series, Shannah, because I definitely agree - I do think JKR is more skilled at creating richness and layers in her stories. I feel the Potterverse is more 'real' (if you'll allow me to use that word!) somehow than Narnia, possibly because JKR is enjoying the telling of the story for its own sake, whereas Lewis had a story to tell but he also seemed to want to make it a piece of Christian teaching for children. Now that's a perfectly worthy idea, but I always feel that if an author gets too focused on making very particular points in their stories, the storytelling itself can become almost secondary and suffer as a result. Ironically then, the message becomes less effective because the reader may be put off by the perceived preachiness and want to read less of the series. The author loses out.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong here, I like the Chronicles of Narnia, but when I read Lewis I never feel quite able to lose myself in his world the way I do with Tolkien or JKR, because I feel a little too much like the writer is trying to teach me a series of moral lessons - things that I feel each person should be able to contemplate for themselves. We should be able to ask ourselves things like 'is unquestioning, childlike faith a good (or realistic) mindset to expect grown men and women to have?' without Lewis supplying us with only one choice of answer.

I haven't read the Chronicles of Narnia in ages so I don't remember much about it. Some of the posts above talk about how the Chronicles of Narnia have many morals based on the christian religion, but I'm not christian. The books have never really stood out in my mind. Some books i haven't read in even longer amounts of time I can remember quite a lot about them, like lots of characters, some small details in the plot, morals, etc. but I remember very little about the Chronicles of Narnia. Also, the Chronicles of Narnia is a less interesting read for me compared to Harry Potter.

In my opinion, Harry Potter is the better series with a better message. In the Chronicles, the four kids are on their own for the most part but in the end there's always Aslan to help them (kind of like Dumbledore). I don't remember any particularly memorable deaths of people close the the children, while major deaths happen in Harry Potter. To me, Harry Potter is a much realistic world while Narnia is basically a fairy tale. The whole Good defeats Evil thing being the same isn't much of a big deal to me, because that happens in almost every children's story. However, Harry Potter is more realistic about it. Good may defeat evil, but it will suffer heavy losses. I think the same happens in Chronicles of Narnia, but I didn't shed one tear on the entire series.

Overall, there are many good points to both HP and Narnia (though at the end of the day I prefer HP). In my eyes, one major difference between the books is the fact that Narnia is an allegory for Christianity, whereas HP has elements of Christianity buried within it to help tell the story. There is a direct metaphor in Narnia between certain characters and elements of Christianity. For example, the White Whitch represents original sin, Aslan represents Jesus, and Edmund represents Judas (in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe only though; after that he is completely redeemed). In HP, there are certainly aspects of Christianity in the story, such as Harry's "resurrection" and the fact that he is similar to Jesus in his willingness to die for those he loves. There's also an afterlife modeled after Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory in HP.

In regards to the overall messages of each story, I think Narnia advocates for always staying young and not giving in to adult cynicism like Susan does. Also, there is a message of faith in there as well. Harry Potter's message comes across to me as being one of love, of tolerance, and of making good choices that may not always be easy.

I'm currently reading the Narnia series for the first time, and so far I'm not really that impressed. Maybe if I had read it while I was a child I would have enjoyed it more, but I'm finding it really hard to get into. I think I prefer Harry Potter, because there's more depth to it. And I dont really think much happens. I can see why it is a popular book, but I just dont have any urge to read it! I'm currently on the 3rd book (The horse and his boy) and I havent picked it up for days! And usually when I read a book, I'm there reading it at every opportunity! Unlike Harry, I think Narnia does have an age limit and I think I passed it a long time ago...

Besides, I think Narnia is more similar to His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman.

Well, I haven't really read the Narnia books, but I plan to soon. In watching the movie, I saw that Aslans 'Deep Magic' and Dumbledores 'most powerful magic' are both love. That might sound kind of obvious, but I'm not really educated in the Narnia world.

I think that Narnia and Harry Potter are a lot alike. They share a lot of the same morals. The main one is Love and how powerful it can be and how it can triumph over evil. But they are also different. The Narnia's sort of show you how there has to be an ending to everything and the series's ending is one of those that has less possibilities of the future, Harry Potter, however, ends with so many possibilities that it pretty much doesn't end and could still go on.

I always thought the Harry Potter books and the Chronicles of Narnia were similar. Harry Potter's better, though. The story's overall more interesting, though the Narnia books send more of a message. Both represent the battle of good vs. evil, in which good prevails, though the struggle is hard. Most people I know don't see this message for what it is.

I think that the two book are about equal. The morals represented in both books are very similar in my opinion. If you look at Narnia from a non Christian viewpoint, without having religion play into things at all, it still has great morals throughout it. They both are examples of fighting for the good, the evil in the books is scary and realistically so. The books may talk about magic, but we all have seen throughout history examples of people who are just as evil as the antagonists in the books.

I think the great things about both Narnia and HP is that they both do an amazing job of opening up a whole new world. The details are fantastic and they allow you to feel like you are also a part of the book. The keep it real enough that you are never positive the good is actually going to win out, but they also make a very big deal of the fact that the good is always fighting to hold back the evil.

In my opinion, Aslan and Dumbeldore kind of compare. Aslan was always guiding the Pevensie children along, kind of how Dumbledore was guiding Harry along so he could be ready to face Voldemort. They both of course have the fantasy and magic part of them too. I also think they compare because in HP, the magical world was thought to not exist. In the Chronicles of Narnia, a magical world like Narnia was also thought to not exist. The Chronicles of Narnia differst though, because of the strong Christian aspect of the story that C.S. Lewis wrote from. I've also found a connection in Prince Caspian. His uncle was trying to kill Caspian so he could remain in power, while in HP Voldemort attempted to kill Harry because of the prophecy that Trelawny made. They also compare because they are awesome book! :)

Honestly, I don't think the books can be really compared. Harry Potter is a set of books that focuses on a young boy and his friends growing up, maturing, and dealing with some big problems that come their way. The Chronicles, however, are more of a history about a land from its creation to its ultimate end. Sure, they have some similarities, such that Aslan and Dumbledore could almost be on the same plane of character but the series' are so different that there's really not much else to compare. They are two beautifully written sets of books by two brilliant authors who had different intentions when writing. Therefore, I see no real major comparison between the two.

I agree that comparing these series is like comparing apples and oranges: they are both fruit, or in this case childrens fiction with magic. I started reading Narnia when I was 7, over 30 years ago, and HP when it first came out 12 years ago. I have read both series many times (at least 30 times each). Narnia, with its multi-universe parallel world setting, is more of a fairy tale than HP. With HP set in our world, and current time, is much easier for most people to identify with. I think that both are excellent examples of completely different styles of writting.
I would suggest to those who are considering reading Narnia for the first time, like TheShiley, that they start the series with The Lion, the witch, and the Wardrobe instead of the Magicians Nephew. Use the publication order for reading Narnia for the first time, it makes a big difference.

There are a few similarities that struck me. They both deal with choosing between good and evil. But Narnia definitely alludes to Christianity alot and focuses on morals where as HP is more about fighting evil.
A part in Harry Potter that really reminded me of Narnia was in Deathly Hallows when Harry comes back from Kings Cross and he's lying there pretending to be dead and Voldemort exclaiming his victory and does the Cruciatus curse on him while laughing along with his death eaters. That reminded me of the part in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe when the White Witch is going to kill Aslan and she and her minions are laughing and jeering cruelly at him. And the fact that both Harry and Aslan come back from the dead in a way is similar. And I guess, just thinking about it now, that bot Harry and Aslan go up against their prospective enemies intending to be killed, which is a factor in why both of them come back to life.

As many before me have previously stated, they're similar and different. If I had to pick which I preferred, I would say Harry Potter. It's not that Narnia is necessarily shallow but Potter allows for a lot more moral ambiguity, which I love. (I also grew up with Harry Potter, and only read Narnia quite recently.)

A striking similarity between them is the over-arching love-conquers-all motif. In Harry Potter, it's all kinds of love that does it (friendship, romantic, parental, unrequited, sibling, etc etc), but in Narnia, it seems to be limited to Love in a more religious sense--complete faith in Aslan. If you go through the books carefully, you may notice that every character who is painted as immoral is highly untrusting and uses doubt as a tool against other characters. (The Witch trying to get Digory to doubt Aslan and take the fruit for himself/his mother in The Magician's Nephew, the dwarfs in The Last Battle doubting Aslan's existence so fully that they imagine they're still in the stable, though they are inches from Aslan's country, etc etc). What redeems characters is shedding their doubt, and gaining faith in Aslan. (Edmund and Eustace are prime examples of this.) In Harry Potter, the love of Lily Potter that runs through Voldemort's veins (since he took Harry's blood in GoF) coupled with remorse is his chance for redemption. Love (though different kinds) is what conquers evil in both of these books, and love is what can save you.

Some differences:
Narnia seems to be written for a slightly younger audience. I love young adult literature, so that's not a problem, but it does make a notable difference: The Last Battle and Deathly Hallows can hardly be compared in terms of reading level.

Narnia is a lot more utopian than the wizarding world. A lot of the descriptions of Narnia make it sound absolutely perfect, and although I would give an arm and a leg to go to Hogwarts, the place has its flaws. Most of the problems in the Narnia stories come from the outside (the White Witch, the Calormenes, the other witch who takes Rilian [is she the same witch? I don't remember that...], Uncle Andrew, etc). Narnians themselves aren't usually the problem (a notable exception being The Last Battle where many Narnians lose faith--and thus lead to the end of Narnia, and not being accepted into Aslan's country). The problems in the wizarding world are mostly from the wizarding world (Dark Magic is an aspect of magic, not a separate art).

And of course, there is the use of magic itself. Narnia being a highly religious text makes it this not surprising, but the children never use magic (as far as I can remember). It's reserved for Aslan--and those who use it otherwise are either evil (the Witch) or magical creatures in their own right (Centaurs, and the Stars in Dawn Treader). These books would never tempt children into using magic, which I'm sure appeased many of the religious people who dislike Harry Potter for just that reason. In Harry Potter, humans take saving the world into their own hands using magic that could be considered sacrilegious; in Narnia, the good magic is reserved almost solely for the deity.

I love Narnia and Harry Potter. However, I don't know if I could choose one over the other, because I like them for different reasons.

Narnia was my first love, and I read the Chronicles dozens of times before I met Harry Potter. What I like about Narnia is the world Lewis introduces us to. This may be because it was the first fantasy world I entered, but I love the nymphs and talking animals, Cair Paravel and the lamppost. Narnia's plots are good, yes, but I enjoy the way each book introduces us to new places, different people, lovely adventures, and differnt mythical creatures.

Conversely, what I love about Harry Potter is the plot. I love that you never know what is going to happen, and that Rowling can keep me on my toes. It's very difficult to fool me in a story, but Rowling manages to do it a few times. And, of course, with the amazing plot comes the depth of character that is revealed as the books progress. Narnia just can't compare in those areas.

I think what I love most about the world of Narnia is its accessibility to the reader. I can be in denial for years about how long my Hogwarts acceptance letter is taking to get to me, but eventually I will have to accept that I am a muggle. With Narnia, I can forever imagine that the next pretty archway I walk through will take me to an enchanted world. And that's something that reality can't take from me :)

Why compare them? They both provide the imagination with endless adventure, and open our eyes to wonderful life lessons.

I loved reading both series and thought that they had similar morals of good vs evil.
However, I think that HP went into a great more detail delving into the individual characters and how their personal backgrounds shaped them - for example, we are told how Ron always received hand-me-downs from his brothers, how he felt he was the less gifted out of them, how Mrs Weasley had desired a daughter...etc and we can relate all of these personal circumstances to the times when he fell out with Harry (during the Triwizard tournament and in the Deathly Hallows). So I think it is this greater depth of detail about the main characters which made us sympathise and rejoice with them in the bad and good times, effectively making us readers feel that we were on the same journey with them.
Don't get me wrong - I love The Narnia chronicles too, but personally I found the story line quite confusing at times especially between each book whereas HP flowed on easily.