Traveling with Thestrals

Discussion for Traveling with Thestrals (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-mommcgonagall01.shtml) by Mommcgonagall.

"He is too inexperienced with Apparition"

I'm sorry, but if you read Half-Blood Prince, you'll notice that Harry can easily apparate (especially at the end) but he hasn't got a license yet. In order of apparate you should already have the visual memory of the place (3D- Determination, Deliberation and Destination). Eventhough he prefers broomstick (don't we all?) i think Harry has now realized how handy it is.

Also Ron and Hermione don't prefer Thestrals- they are bit uncomfortable (read the story behind Thestrals in Ootp). Its not a good idea overall.

Godric's Hollow is a village, just like Hogsmeade- i think most people know where it is.

Hagrid has to weigh 500 pounds or more at his size. We know that the phoenix can carry large loads, but not thestrals. They wouldn't be able to get off the ground with him.

what about lupin? you missed out lupin
i think harry can apperate fairly easily. he accomplished sidealong apparation at the end of hbp , and i would imagine that is harder because he has to transport himself and dumbledore.

however i do tend to think that he won't apperate there

I agree that Harry, Ron and Hermione can apperate fairly easily, but it's not 100% set in stone that Harry and Ginny will remain broken up. They could get back together at Bill and Flure's wedding and Ginny could decide to go with them to Godric's Hollow. If that happens apperation is out of the question.
I also think Godric's Hollow might be too hard to apperate to and how did Hagrid get there, he can't appertate.
Whilst I doubt Hagrid used Thestrals to get to the hollow and rescue baby Harry, I do see Thestral travel as a plausable method for the trio and maybe Ginny too to get to Godric's Hollow.
I thought this was a very well written editotial and straight forwards and to the point.
Even if Thestrals don't appear in book 7, I think this editorial was very believeable. Well done :clap:

Very plausible. I had been thinking about that myself. Harry could apparate, but he is underage, doesn't have a license and doesn't like it. Also, we've only seen him apparate ON HIS OWN to a place that he's been and knows where it is. When they went to the cave, Dumbledore still guided him. The only problem with thestral is how will Harry get to one?

on the way back from the cave harry performed a sidealong apparation
as dumbledore was too weak at that moment to do anything

sriharish got ahead of me: Godric's Hollow is a village. We have no reason to think that it was destroyed. I don't see why it wouldn't be on maps. If it isn't, Hagrid probably remembers how to get there.

They may ride thestrals, but I don't think it's the only way to get there.

Excellent editorial, really thought out.
I also think Godric's Hollow might be too hard to apperate to and how did Hagrid get there, he can't appertate.
Whilst I doubt Hagrid used Thestrals to get to the hollow and rescue baby Harry, I do see Thestral travel as a plausable method for the trio and maybe Ginny too to get to Godric's Hollow.

I bet thestral travel for Hagrid would make sense. After all, he's very proud of having bred them and it's almost the only explanation for how he "flew" to the island in SS.
Hagrid has to weigh 500 pounds or more at his size. We know that the phoenix can carry large loads, but not thestrals. They wouldn't be able to get off the ground with him.
I bet those carriages that take the students up to the school way a lot, plus 4 or so students-7th years all way over a hundred pounds, I bet thats almost 500 pounds. They're magical creatures, I bet they can carry Hagrid.
I'm sorry, but if you read Half-Blood Prince, you'll notice that Harry can easily apparate (especially at the end) but he hasn't got a license yet. In order of apparate you should already have the visual memory of the place (3D- Determination, Deliberation and Destination). Eventhough he prefers broomstick (don't we all?) i think Harry has now realized how handy it is.

Dumbledore hadn't seen the ledge before the Cave before and he apparated there. You just have to focus on the idea of your destination, I bet. Like Floo Powder, just say where you want to go.

I bet those carriages that take the students up to the school way a lot, plus 4 or so students-7th years all way over a hundred pounds, I bet thats almost 500 pounds. They're magical creatures, I bet they can carry Hagrid.You obviously aren't a physics major. Pulling a cart on wheels takes almost no force compared to carrying dead weight while flying. It is true that they are magical creatures, and we would do well to remember that doesn't always mean they are invincible and capable of super strength.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on Harry finding Godric's Hollow:

I don't think he's going to need to ask anyone how to find Godric's Hollow, because I believe that, as a baby, Harry was present when the Fidelius Charm was performed, so he already heard where it was once. The fact that he was a small child makes no difference; he still heard the location. I think that he is going to Apparate there, but Ron and Hermoine won't be able to accompany him, because they never heard from Wormtail where the village is.

Speaking of villages, I have to wonder what the village Snape lives in is named. Could it possibly be.....Godric's Hollow?

Hagrid can appertate he did it in S.S on the island and at the train station.

One thing I would like to note is that Godric's Hollow is quite possibly... nay, likely a Muggle village. It would only make sense for the Potters to hide out there, where they are anonymous and no one really knows they exist or that they are in trouble. There is also strong Hagrid canon to support this:

(PS/SS, pg 16, UK ed.)

"... house was almost destroyed but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin' around."

This indicates that there were enough Muggles around to want to "swarm" the site of a house's destruction when they felt the coast was clear. Sounds like a Muggle village to me.

That said, it would probably be on a map then. Thestrals may be good for places like, say, Azkaban, but since I doubt Godric's Hollow is uplottable, it would probably be on a wizarding map even if it was magical. So thestrals are probably not the only answer.

I agree that Harry, Ron and Hermione can apperate fairly easily, but it's not 100% set in stone that Harry and Ginny will remain broken up. They could get back together at Bill and Flure's wedding and Ginny could decide to go with them to Godric's Hollow. If that happens apperation is out of the question.

True, Apparition would be difficult in the legal sense if Harry hasn't got a license yet, but nothing suggests he will not be able to bring Ginny on a sidealong, especially if he concentrates. My feelings on Apparition are that once you've made the breakthrough a few times, it becomes easy to do.

What about Sirius' old motorbike? I thought Jo said something about us finding out about what happened to it. Perhaps Harry will find it or get it somehow. Or maybe it is still in Godric's Hollow, as Hagrid went back to give it to Sirius (whom was not there anymore) and thus left it somewhere there.

I don't think Godric's Hollow is under the Fidelius Charm anymore, though, so I don't think that will be a problem.

I agree with Sequensia about the Flying motrcycle. I think it might be possible for the trio and maybe Ginny to go to Hagrid after the funeral and ask him about getting to Godric's Hollow. Hagrid will go get his cycle and the kids will all go on thestrals. There is also a possibility that the kids could ride in the Flying Anglia.

Nicely done, Mommcgonagall -

Nicole is helping me with an editorial about how to find Godric's Hollow, so I was quite worried for a moment when I saw "Traveling" --- you took a different tack, however, so I may still have a chance.


... this will be an easy way for JKR to get Harry going without taking up too much effort or page space. No complicated explanations; we already know what Thestrals do.

Very true, and we certainly want to get on with the story. I do like Linda_Carrig's suggestion: I can see this whole little caravan (invisible, disillusioned, or at least travelling in the dark) headed out across Britain to go to Godric's Hollow. Harry and the Weasleys on their brooms, Hermione, Luna and Neville in the Anglia, and Hagrid (with Madame Maxime) leading the way in her flying carriage (which is also parked at Hogwarts for the funeral).

Months (maybe a year) ago someone said they could just see Harry as a bounty hunter: all dressed in black leather, three days of stubble, astride Sirius' motorcylce. :cool: I like that image, too. (...very much...)

Cheers!

aside from the fact that the house James and Lilly were living at in the village of Godrics Hollow being under the fidelius charm at the time of there deaths, what has it in the story that has lead you to believe that no one could find Godrics Hollow? in fact it must be village where muggles live in close proximity because they apparently showed up to see all the commotion.

at this stage in the game, Harry can simply apparate there. he won't be going until he is 17. despite his dislike for it. it is much faster than any other form of transportation. and at this stage in the story, it seems like a waste of time for Harry to go back to Hogwarts just to snag a Thestral only then to travel back to someplace he could have aparated to in the first place

Well, I like the idea that Harry will fly on a thestral to get there, because he does have no idea where it is or what it looks like, so apparition will be a problem. Plus, Harry doesn't have his license - he will be 17, but he's not even planning on going back to school, so....

Merlin's beard. You go away for a few days to write up an editorial on an idea you get in the middle of the night and when you finally come back you realise that someone has pipped you to the post! :grumble:
That said i think this is a brilliant editorial and fully agree with every point.
Interesting the idea of Scrimegeour sending someone after him, and that person turning out to be a Death Eater! I would suggest Lucius were it not for the fact that Scrimgeour used to be an Aurour and old Luc is locked in Azkaban. Nevertheless there was always Rookwood, Mulciber, Avery and a whole cast of others that weren't named among the circle!

Just felt like pointing out:

Getting to a place that is under a fidelius charm is not a problem - it's actually SEEING it and getting IN to it that is the tricky part.
Which means - if the Potter's home was still under the charm when Hagrid was sent to fetch little Harry, riding a thestral couldn't have helped him much without getting word from the secret keeper, because, as JK states in PoA, he could have "pressed his nose against their livingroom window" and not being able to find them.
think about it, Harry is able to stand right in front of 12 Grimmwald place, but he can't see it or enter it untill he is told the secret by Dumbledore.

Therefore, traveling by thestrals is not an advantage when it comes to actually find the G.H.

Interesting the idea of Scrimegeour sending someone after him, and that person turning out to be a Death Eater! I would suggest Lucius were it not for the fact that Scrimgeour used to be an Aurour and old Luc is locked in Azkaban. Nevertheless there was always Rookwood, Mulciber, Avery and a whole cast of others that weren't named among the circle!

Thanks a bunch, and I'm sorry I beat you to it!
I think you misunderstood me, though--what I meant was that Scrimgeour will probably have Harry followed to see what he is up to (as he had Dumbledore followed) and that Death Eaters will also be sent to try to follow him by Voldemort (if Voldemort gets wind of what Harry is up to!). In short, Harry's travels will not be easy by any stretch of the imagination.

Thanks to Mugglenet for posting my idea, and thanks a million to all the fans that read and respond to the editorials! I've seen some really brilliant ideas out there!

Just to clarify, I never said that Godric's Hollow was destroyed, and we (the readers) don't even know where it is exactly--so my point was, how is Harry going to find it? I really believe he has no memory of the place. I think it has been said by JKR that G.H. is a Muggle village--what does it matter? Harry still needs to find it. I suppose maps are plausible, but we've only seen one map in the series, and that is a [I]magic[I] map (the Marauder's Map). Magic folk don't seem to use muggle maps, so I don't think that Harry will be using one.
Anyway, I can't wait to read how Godric's Hollow is described, and I'm very anxious to know what Harry will find there!

Just to clarify, I never said that Godric's Hollow was destroyed, and we (the readers) don't even know where it is exactly--so my point was, how is Harry going to find it? I really believe he has no memory of the place. I think it has been said by JKR that G.H. is a Muggle village--what does it matter? Harry still needs to find it. I suppose maps are plausible, but we've only seen one map in the series, and that is a [I]magic[I] map (the Marauder's Map). Magic folk don't seem to use muggle maps, so I don't think that Harry will be using one.
Anyway, I can't wait to read how Godric's Hollow is described, and I'm very anxious to know what Harry will find there!

I enjoyed your editorial very much, but this highlighted part of your post is in error. At the very beginning of SS/PS, McGonagall (as a cat) is reading a map at the corner of Privet Drive, getting Vernon Dursley's strange day off to a very weird start. (Thank you very much Minerva!!) :tu:

Of course, you must admit, we're not in the Muggle world very much, and especially not outdoors (away from Harry's neighborhood).

I don't see any problem for Harry finding the village, since he will not go there until after he turns 17 at the Dursley's house (as Dumbledore made clear he was to do). I suspect that Aunt Petunia has some very important information for Harry which Dumbledore instructed her to give him when he reaches manhood (age 17 for magical people, as we all know). In addition, she very likely knows the location of the village where her sister lived, even though she was in hiding, and maybe even knows the address -- or at least has a Muggle map which shows where it is.

I like to think that Aunt Petunia has some momentos of her sister that she will give Harry just before he leaves Privet Drive which are greatly significant for him (which Hermione will probably figure out) while Aunt P thinks they are simply sentimental nicknacks. I see Harry figiting in his room on the night of July 30, all packed and ready, waiting for midnight so he can walk out that door for the last time, and Aunt Petunia comes padding in at 11:45, dressed in her night clothes, to have a secret converation. She will completely let down her guard, express her concern for his safety, tearfully confess that through all the years every time she looked at him she saw her sister's eyes looking back at her, and give him the things she had saved and/or Dumbledore had sent to her to give to Harry.

And, then, I believe, he will waste no time (and neither will JKR) and he will apparate to Godric's Hollow. Even if he doesn't really enjoy apparating, Harry has demonstrated quite aptly that he is willing to be uncomfortable for a short time to expedite his quest.

Wouldn't Lupin be able to tell where Godric's Hollow is? If he did tell Harry and the others, they would be able apparate very easily. Although it is true what you said about Harry not liking to apparate. I can see Harry using this as an alternative method to apparating.

Maybe, we'll be introduced to a new form of transportation in Book 7. Like you said, we've learned of at least one new way in each book. Maybe book 7 won't break the pattern.

Even if we don't- Thestrals do seem like the somewhat obvious and simple choice, but when was the last time that JK was predictable?

Well written though, Mommcgonagall.

I think that this is an awsome theory. I have to agree with you in saying that the trio + Ginny will use thestrals. It think this was a very well thought out editorial where you made clear & consice points. great job!

Yeah, nice editorial. Straight and to the point.:)
I definitely think that thestrals would save up a lot of time, and it would be a way for Ginny to go with him. so hermione and Ron don't really like them, but they'd go if they knew Harry really wanted to do it. I think they've been through a lot worse than an uncomfortable ride! Ginny will most probably be going with them, so that kinda rules out apparition, unless she goes side-along...
I'm liking the idea of the flying motorbike though. We definitely haven't seen the last of it! and it would be a good way for all of them to go together.

I would like to add the the where abouts of Godrics Hollow were NOT secret, it was the where abouts of the Potters that was secret. The point being that Voldemort could have gone to the Potters house in Godrics Hollow, looked directly into their kitchen window where Lily, James and harry were, and not seen them.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on Harry finding Godric's Hollow:

I don't think he's going to need to ask anyone how to find Godric's Hollow, because I believe that, as a baby, Harry was present when the Fidelius Charm was performed, so he already heard where it was once. The fact that he was a small child makes no difference; he still heard the location. I think that he is going to Apparate there, but Ron and Hermoine won't be able to accompany him, because they never heard from Wormtail where the village is.

Speaking of villages, I have to wonder what the village Snape lives in is named. Could it possibly be.....Godric's Hollow?
Um I believe thats "Spinners End"

Lol.
You quoted JMZ:
"Speaking of villages, I have to wonder what the village Snape lives in is named. Could it possibly be.....Godric's Hollow?"

Um I believe thats "Spinners End"

I'm positive it's not Godric's Hollow, and yes, I believe it is Spinner's End.

In the PoA book in the Three broomsticks during the conversation where Harry found out that Sirius is his godfather didn't mcgonagall or flitwick say that 'Even if Voldemort had looked straight through the sitting room window of their house he still could not have seen them'. This would suggest that the Potters as people were prtoected and made 'invisible' not the house. Then of course the Secret Keeper broke his vow. The secret was made void and the protection was broken. If the house had been made invisible by the Fidelus Charm that protection must have been broken. Otherwise how the heck could Voldemort have entered it in the first place?
Also I think that when James and Lily were murdered by Voldemort the Secret would have been completely nullified. It this is not the case then since Harry was also protected and lived in the house he would be privy to the secret, even if he has no memory of the house. It's pretty simple.
Either way what was once a house and home is now a pile of rubble.

Originally Posted by loona
You quoted JMZ:
"Speaking of villages, I have to wonder what the village Snape lives in is named. Could it possibly be.....Godric's Hollow?"

Um I believe thats "Spinners End"

Spinner's End was the name of the street that Snape lived in, not the name of the village. The name of the village was not mentioned, I think. I'll have to have a re-read of that chapter to be absolutely sure.

Hi Everyone,
Me, again. Everybody that replied has such great ideas!
I would like to see that flying motorbike again too, I wonder how many people it will hold? Hmm....
I don't think we will see any more magical methods of transportation. 17 is adulthood in Harry's world, and then you're allowed to obtain the license to Apparate--It's kinda like getting a driver's license. For me, Book 7 will be, or should be, strictly tying up loose ends to the story. There's so much to tie up, in fact, that Book 7 should be about 1,500 pages!!! But I'm not complaining!!!!


Weasley is our King!!!!!

First off, great editorial. I love the idea of Thestrals playing another role in the series. However, I don't believe they are the only way to get to Godric's Hollow.

That said, it would probably be on a map then. Thestrals may be good for places like, say, Azkaban, but since I doubt Godric's Hollow is uplottable, it would probably be on a wizarding map even if it was magical. So thestrals are probably not the only answer.
I absolutely agree. Since it seems that there are many Muggles residing there, it would probably be on a Muggle map too. In that case there are many methods of getting to Godric's Hollow. Might Harry find such a map at the Dursley's?

I don't believe you guys,

If you don't have figured this out, how can you expect to gain any insight to book 7.

The fidelius charm was used to HIDE the Potters. Right?

Who are the Potters?, There is James, Lily AND Harry.

Harry KNOWS where Godric Hollow is BECAUSE he has been there. He doesn't need to hear this from the secret keeper HE IS THE SECRET!

Blimey!, how can people still debate how he's going to find it. All he needs is to go to Godric Hollow and he will find the house, because he has lived there before, the Fidelius Charm will prevent Harry from telling Ron or Hermione where is his house, so only Harry can find it.


I assume that just like in Grimmuald place where Harry saw it appear in between two houses after he read the note, Harry can be there with Ron and Hermione and they would see nothing and only Harry will see the destroyed house or whatever.

victorius i totally agree with u, i would bet that harry was there when they did the charm, so i would also bet that harry would have no problem seeing it. That doesnt mean he knows where it is, or how to get their though. Just when he got there he would be able to see it, when none else would

Nice editorial. Sure, Harry could get to GH pretty easily by thestral. Don't know if one could bear Hagrid, though, unless this was why Sirius gave him the bike. (Here Hagrid, take this, your thestral looks dead beat.) Harry could also get there by apparating maybe...He should go to Hagrid first to ask how to get there. Hey, Frizzle, I liked your scenario of Aunt Petunia with Harry before he leaves Privet Dr. I can see that happining, too.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Weasleys' flying car in this thread... If they're unable to aparate this seems like a possible way to get to Godric's Hollow. It seems more comfortable than thesrtrals. Hasn't JKR said we'd see it again?

Good editorial.

Great editorial - short and to the point.

I like the idea that Hagrid used a thestral to get to Godric's Hollow. He had to get there somehow, and he already said (when he was babbling to Umbridge) that he doesn't like broomsticks. Also, Hagrid has a great affinity to magical creatures, it makes the most sense that he would use some magical creature to travel with.
The other reason I like the idea of Hagrid using a thestral to travel in book one, is that when he first met Harry, Harry asks him how he got to the house on the rock, and he says "I flew". When I re-read that recently I started to wonder exactly how Hagrid did fly, since the power of flight without help isn't one the magical skills shown in this world.
But if Hagrid came on a Thestral, now that makes sense, because he could send the beast back to Hogwarts after he arrived.
And when he was on that rock getting Harry there is no sign of whatever he used to "fly" on. It may not have been a thestral, but it must of been some type of magical creature which could leave on it's own. I don't think Hagrid could apparate, after all his magical education ended when he was expelled, long before apparition training begins.

- Morwen

Your all forgetting he could simply right a letter adressed to Godrics Hollow, attach it too a owl and follow it on a broomstick!

Covered in his invisibilty cloke

I don't think he's going to need to ask anyone how to find Godric's Hollow, because I believe that, as a baby, Harry was present when the Fidelius Charm was performed, so he already heard where it was once. The fact that he was a small child makes no difference; he still heard the location.

Interesting editorial, but I agree with JMZ that the location of the Godric's Hollow is not the crutial point, rather the fact that the Fidelius Charm is still active on the Potters' home (note that the Godric's Hollow is a village, not a house, the Fidelius Charm was placed on the house, not the village). As Jo says on the webpage, the Secret can be revealed ONLY by a Secret Keeper. In the books, she says that if Voldemort hadn't been told the secret, he could have looked into the window of the Potters' house and still could not reveal their secret location.

Two points emerge from this:
First - Wormtail, the Secret Keeper, must have told the Potters including the baby Harry where they live in order for them to be able to use the house after the Fidelius Charm was placed on it.

Second - Hagrid could not have picked up Harry from the ruins - nothing suggests that the Fidelius Charm is lifted if the building is destroyed. As he [Hagrid] brought Harry to the Dursleys' on Sirius's motorbike, Sirius must have been there to carry Harry out of the ruins and hand him over to Hagrid together with his motorbike.

Of course, Harry can use the Thestrals if he wants to to travel to the village of Godric's Hollow.

You were very accurate I have to say, but you missed something. In the thrid book, Hagrid said that he went to pick Harry up and the house was a disaster. How could he have seen it if he didn't know where it was. I'm sure Pettigrew didn't tell him so that means Sirius must've before he told Dumbledore to switch the secret-keeper. Therefore, Hagrid could tell Harry were G.H. is. Also, Lupin was one of James best friends. I'm sure he could tell them wre G.H. is too. Because of this point that you forgot, I have to say that I was very unhappy with what you wrote, but for future editorials get your facts right first.:no: :no: