Parseltongue: More Common than we Thought?

Discussion for Parseltongue: More Common than we Thought? (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-smerritt01.shtml) by Sarah Merritt.

The question we should be asking ourselves is, "What other powers did Voldemort pass on to Harry, besides being a parselmouth?" Although it very possible that there might be others who are parcelmouths (it's not something you would boast about!), I don't think that there is any shred of evidence anywhere that Lily was one. I fully agree with you, however, that this ability will come in handy when Harry has to go after the last Horcrux (Nagini) who is never very far from Voldemort himself. When Dumbledore was considering those funny whirring instruments in his office and debating about "being seperate in essence" I'm sure that he was trying to make out if Voldemort was possessing Nagini or bidding it to do its will. I think that it was at that point that Dumbledore realised that Nagini was a Horcrux. Those instruments probably showed Dumbedore two bits of soul inside Nagini - the Horcrux and the bit that is inside Voldemort who was inside Nagini at the time. At the time of reading that bit in book 5, i.e. before we knew anything of the Horcruxes, I felt that it was never really explained what he meant so I could only assume that we would get the explanation in a later book. I wonder who will inherit all those little marvels in Dumbledore's office and if there is anybody who really understands them and can use them in the way Dumbledore could. I would have wished that Dumbeldore passed some of that knowledge to Harry at least but it never materialised. What a waste of scholarship! I wonder just how much knowledge Dumbledore possessed which has been buried with him - again what a waste! This is why I can never bring myself to believe that Dumbledore ever planned his own death. He would never have left so many loose threads - he would have given Harry so much more knowledge and tools to vanquish Voldemort. Dumbledore knew all along that knowledge would be Harry's main tool against Voldemort. However intuitive and resourseful Harry has shown himself to be, Dumbledore knew only too well that Harry was no match for Voldemort. Not even he himself was still capable of battling Voldemort and winning. So I'm very much hoping that Voldemort has passed Harry some other ability that not even Harry himself knows about yet!

Voldemort marked Harry as "equal". I think Harry and Voldemort are equally powerful, but Harry chooses not to use Dark Magic. Also Harry has some qualities of Tom Riddle- Determination, Resourcefulness and less regard for School Rules.

Very intersting theory because all pure-bloods are interrelated. So Harry inheriting Parseltogue is possible, but how important is it? Is the question.

Voldemort marked Harry as "equal". I think Harry and Voldemort are equally powerful, but Harry chooses not to use Dark Magic. Also Harry has some qualities of Tom Riddle- Determination, Resourcefulness and less regard for School Rules.

Agreed!! :D i think Voldy gave Harry the ability to talk to snakes, rather than Harry inheriting it.

concerning dumbledore possibly being a pasrelmouth.
i don't think he inherited it,but i do think that one of th twelve uses of dragons blood, could be to speak and understand any language you need to

i was under the impression (from what we saw of the gaunts) that the slytherin family stopped going to school at all. certainlyy there can be no doubt they would not step foot in hogwarts after salazar left.

About the pureblood commet. I am one of the people suspecting James potter was a dsendet of Grifindor. If he is do you really think someone of Slythrin descent would marry into that family? You also must rember that, that commet was made some time after James. It could be that the commet is ture now but not then. Now Salazar (sp?) left the school because muggle borns were being let in. I dought any of his decendets up till Tom's mum would marry that many muggles or muggle borns if they were anywere as half as filled with "Slythrin pride" as Marvolo. Besides If a pureblood wizard married a muggle or muggleborn, thier kids would be magical along with their grand kids. If any were squibs they would still know about magic. Lily's family knew nothing of the sort (hence Petiua's reaction) so I think it's safe to say they were not desend from slythrin. *cough Griffindor would be more likly* Now I dought dumbles was a pasrlmouth. In the scean in the pensive with Marvolo and his kids you can read the body langauge. So dumbledore could figure out an idea of what they were saying. Also yes we know dumbledore can be wrong. But it makes the most seace(sp?) about voldy transfering some of his powers to harry. I really do trust his jugdement, and his therios (again sp?) and with some exceptions he is usally right. But if Jk would have a heack of a time to explain something she usally has dumbledore tell him (or not tell him) :D .
Ohh and will parseltongue play a part in book seven? HECK YES!

I was also under the impression that the Slytherin/Gaunt family did not go to school, but were "home schooled", in a manner of speaking:p

The evidence offered here is good, but I just can't see Lily or James being associated with something that's been considered a Dark Art throughout history.

Sirius said James always hated the Dark Arts. I guess you could argue that part of his hatred was spawned from being unwillingly connected with them, but that seems a stretch.

As for Lily, she's practically portrayed with a halo (sp?) around her head throughout the series, so it just doesn't seem to fit.

slughorn seemed tothink lily would have been a good slytherin. he said she gave him cheeky answers.

Slughorn likes her because she may be succesful ( I gess being the mother of the world savior is pretty succeful). To him If you would be succesful you should be a slythrin.

Anyway how do we know Voldemort passsed Parselmouth on to harrry? Maybe Dumbledore was wrong and harry had the ability since he was a baby?

Hate to shoot down theories straight off, but this from JKR's website ("Rumors"): [On whether Voldemort is Harry's father/grandfather/relative of close description] "And hasn't Dumbledore already told Harry that Voldemort is the last surviving descendent of Salazar Slytherin? Just to clarify: this means Harry is NOT a descendent of Salazar Slytherin."
Which means that nobody from Slytherin's family could have married into Harry's (if we're talking about direct blood connections, which is the only way to inherit something). And for those who say even Dumbledore makes mistakes: I don't think JKR would categorically state something like that outside of the books, only to pull the rug out from under us in book 7.
Well written editorial in any case.

I was going to post JKR's comment as well. I don't see any reason to doubt Dumbledore's explanation of Harry's Parseltongue ability.

About Dumbledore: In the story of Sigurd, tasting dragon's blood lets you understand the language of birds. Dumbledore is known for having worked out the 12 (I think) uses of dragon's blood. If he can understand Parseltongue, I think the blood probably gave him the ability to understand snakes.

I don't think Lily's being able to speak Parseltongue would make him let her live (and why would he bring a snake to the Potter house?). She'd defied him three times--and I don't think Voldemort much likes other people having his special gifts.

I was also under the impression that the Slytherin/Gaunt family did not go to school, but were "home schooled", in a manner of speaking:p

That is what I thought as well. Given the description we were given of them in Book 6, it seems as if they did not attend any school. Maybe that is why the line of one of the Greatest Wizards of that time (Slytherin) became what the Gaunts were.

However, the part about Voldemort bringing a snake, and giving Lily the chance to live because she could talk to it seems to be some really far reaching speculation.

if you ask me, this theory seems really far fetched. jo seems to speak through dumbledore, quite often. i think that if dumbledore says harry got the ability through voldermort, it's good enough for me. however, i do think that the ability has a part to play in the seventh book. this will probably have something to do with dumbledore's theory that nagini is a horcrux, once again, i believe dumbledore. although he has been known to make mistakes, it is usually in his judgement, not in his theories.

An interesting and well presented editorial and certainly a topic I have not previously considered. However, if Harry did inherit Parseltongue from a parent it would have been James. If Lily had been a parseltongue then Petunia and Dudley would likely also have been yet JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle. The only out here would seem to be the "revelation" about Petunia JKR said would occur in book seven.

Although I don't agree with the theory presented here it is worth considering since it is a possibility for book seven.

I just wanna say I'm darn impressed you used the word "obfuscate."

I had this theory of petunia and Lily parents where squibs. born to wizards and that is why they where proud of having a witch in the family. the family may have gone to visit their grandparents. If Petunia was born to squibs than she would be a muggle. Has JK ever said anything to this theory.

Somebody told Harry that DD speaks many languages (Remmember the merpeople?),And I think you are right about he being parseltong.

This is an interesting editorial. Although I do not think it is probable, you certainly show it to be possible. I don't completely agree with it, but it is an interesting theory, nonetheless.

I don't agree with some of this editorial, like the part about Voldemort letting Lily live because she was a Parselmouth.

One thing of interest, though, is that if the gene was hereditary in Harry, it could possibly have come from Lily. Why do I say this? Well, she is a "mutation", if you will, of the Muggle gene, thus making her a witch. If her genetics have mutated far enough to make her a witch, why not a Parselmouth? All hereditary traits have to start somewhere, as is the way of evolution. It takes only one person with a particular gene to spread it down the line.

I am also of the opinion that Parseltongue can be learned. I don't necessarily have canon for this, but think about it: what normal person would sit down and take time to learn from a snake? However, if someone were to sit down with a Parselmouth and be taught by them, I'm sure it's possible to learn it. It just comes naturally to some people, is all, maybe. So Dumbledore could, theoretically, speak Parseltongue through his own design.

The topic of the editorial was a definitely stimulating one. As I say, it could possibly be hereditary (why must only Slytherin's blood be Parselmouths? Wasn't a Greek the most famous owner of a Basilisk?), but the question is if that would have any bearing at all on the fact that Harry is a Parselmouth himself. The fact in and of itself is probably the most important part.

Good work, though!

An interesting article, and I too agree that Dumbledore probably speaks Parseltongue. I mean, he sort of boasts a bit through HBP, so the whole 'great and good' comment would fit (among other better reasons, anyway).

I really like the thought about dragon's blood in one of the above comments - with all the mythology in these books, that's probably spot on. :)

I think this would have held more water if JKR hadn't already debunked the whole 'Harry isn't related to Voldemort' issue... But then, if she hadn't, we'd probably be reading something ridiculous trying to prove that they're related.

I enjoyed reading it though - lots of good points. :clap:

I had this theory of petunia and Lily parents where squibs. born to wizards and that is why they where proud of having a witch in the family. the family may have gone to visit their grandparents. If Petunia was born to squibs than she would be a muggle. Has JK ever said anything to this theory.


Is this official? or is this just your definition of Muggle? Because I personally think if 2 squibs marry (and now we really are diving in to crazy theories.) and have 1 child with magical ability and 1 without, you wouldn't call the one without a Muggle. She still comes from a magical family. But it doesn't really matter, because I doubt this theory is anywhere close to correct.

I don't think Harry inherited parseltongue. First of all: Rowling said on her site that Harry is NOT a descendant from Salazar Slytherin, so that's not a possibility. He couldn't have inherited it from Lily's side because she's truly a muggle, at least that's what Rowling said, and i'm not going to argue with Rowling. And if he inherited it from James' side of the family, we would have heared from someone that James was a parseltongue. If he was only a carrier of the parseltongue 'gene' (if it's inheritible then it's a gene), then james would have been a descendant from someone with parseltongue. We don't know alot about James' side of the family. The only clues we have are 'godric's hollow' (the rival house of slytherin) and 'Charlus Potter' on the black family tree. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the black family was somehow related to Salazar Slytherin. But we haven't heard from any of the blacks being a parseltongue.

In my opinion there is few evidence that Harry inherited parseltongue from james' side of the family. I think Harry has parseltongue for the very reason Dumbledore gives him: the lightning-shaped scar on his forehead.

Who on earth said Salazars Slytherin's line was the only one that possesed the ability of Parseltoungue? just because Slytherin was the most famous Parselmouth of all time doesn't mean he was the only one. Harry could be related to one of those 'great and good' wizards Dumbledore mentioned. In short, this theory could be possible. Oh by the Way Pheneas Nigellus means 'serpents mouth' make of it what you will.

[QUOTE=darules]concerning dumbledore possibly being a pasrelmouth.
i don't think he inherited it,but i do think that one of th twelve uses of dragons blood, could be to speak and understand any language you need to
QUOTE]


Well, I thought Dumbledore understands the conversation because he can use Legilemacy (sorry can't spell it..).


(I'm sorry if I'm repeating something that was already said before me... I didn't read all the comments first..)

This was an interesting editorial, but I think an analysis of how Dumbledore knew Parseltongue might be more productive. It is interesting to think about Voldemort offering to spare Lily because she spoke parseltongue. That would definitely qualify as a big surprise about Lily that JK Rowling promised to reveal.

This is why I can never bring myself to believe that Dumbledore ever planned his own death. He would never have left so many loose threads - he would have given Harry so much more knowledge and tools to vanquish Voldemort. Dumbledore knew all along that knowledge would be Harry's main tool against Voldemort. However intuitive and resourseful Harry has shown himself to be, Dumbledore knew only too well that Harry was no match for Voldemort. Not even he himself was still capable of battling Voldemort and winning. So I'm very much hoping that Voldemort has passed Harry some other ability that not even Harry himself knows about yet!

Dumlbedore did give Harry knowldge! I mean what else would you call the Horcruxes? I'm undeceided on weither Dumbledore planned his death but, I know he thinks Harry can do this! Knowledge is a great stepping stone but not the main tool. Dumble ore has told us the main tool! Love! He told us again and again, now if only we would listen. I don't think Dumbledore can't beat Voldy, but he choses not to kill innocent people along the way. I mean even if Draco wan't innocent Dumbledore chose to let him carry on without interference so Voldy wouldn't kill Draco, and I think Dumbledore knew Harry Needed to do the final step, in the end.

I agree that dumbledore used leginiments or maybe dragons blood, and I think Harry did not inherit but got parsemouth like Dumbledore said. It makes the connection between the two so much stronger, to know what Voldy armed Harry with. I also think Voldy might have passed his love for the Darkarts seeing as Lily and James seemed to accel in different areas.

Overall the editorial brought up good points not only to look into and agree with but to argue with :)!! Great Job

Yes Dumbledore gave Harry knowledge - knowledge of WHAT he had to do not HOW to do it. He didn't even tell him how he destroyed the ring! Do you think for one minute that Harry would have managed to beat the spells on that ring and get away with just a withered hand? I too know that somehow Harry can do it but only because he IS the hero of the story and JK cannot possibly let pure evil take over the world - AND she loves Harry. But no one can deny that there was so much more Dumbledore could have taught Harry besides showing him what he had to do. If nothing else it would have given Harry the confidence of knowing that he was much more prepared for what Voldemort and his lackeys will throw at him.

He already knew how to do it in essence...I mean he did already destory the diary. I don't think JKR would just let Harry win, she has given him the tools somewhere. This isn't not only about JKR and her love but about the books and the story, her love will not have him just win without fully earning it I think. I'm not saying that Dumbledore couldn't have taught Harry more, but it would be no fun if everything was handed to him, he needs to go looking so he he can not only find what hes looking for, but keys to different parts of his life. We are missing so much from the story ya know? I'm not saying I am glad Dumbledore died or anything, but I understand some of the reasons even if not fully. Harry Ovoisly has ways to get the info he needs and he has two great freinds and the Order behind him if he needs them. Most importantly he has love and if thats good enough for Dumbledore It's good enough for me!! Harry came out of that cave chaged, and after the night was over even more so. I think confideince is good but in the end Harry knows he has to do it and with that knowledge he has the drive to push him to the end.

Ps thanks for repliying!! I love this kinda stuff :D

Hmm, interesting, but highly unlikely. Although i do believe that there are/have been "good wizards" who can speak parseltongue, I think that's it's pretty obvious that Harry got it from Voldemort. And even if he DID inherit it, it needn't have been directly from Lily or James. I have the feeling that this kind of ability skips generations (there probably is a sound scientific reason for this, but I'm not good with genetics). If it was inherited, it was probably on Lily's side (although James' side is not totally out of the question). If someone from Slytherin's family married a Muggle or good wizard, it was a long time ago, so it could have plausibly been passed onto Harry through the generations.
I also have the impression that the fact Voldemort gave Lily the chance to live had something to do with her potion-making abilities.
Although, the scenarios in the article seem a bit farfetched for me, they were well presented and thought out. And i do think that Harry's ability will have some big part to play before the end.

There is a hole in your theory. If Harry Inherited Parselmouth, as you suggested, by one of the Slytherins blasted off the family tree, then that would mean Harry is a descendants of Slytherin. We know he is not, Jo says Voldemort is the last remaining one.

I am just curious about how anyone knows what the 12 uses of Dragons Blood are. I don't ever recall JKR giving us any details about this subject. Is this idea just speculation? anyone? If it is just speculation, I will say that it is an interesting thought.

It is very likely that Dumbledore was able to decipher the language of Parseltongue. After all, Albus learned how to speak Mermish, and the only thing we were told about the language was that it sounded like screeching or screeches. Why shouldn't he be able to decipher and learn hissing sounds?

I must dispute the idea that Dumbledore used Legamency to understand Morphin. This isn’t to say that it wouldn’t be possible for Dumbledore to have learned Parseltongue and could understand Morphin, but he wouldn’t be able to use Legamency. It may be possible to use Legamency on a person who is speaking a different language, if the person is speaking directly to someone; however, it doesn’t seem like Dumbledore would be able to use Legamency on a Memory.

OK, I agree too that the ability to speak Parseltongue with be a plus when it comes to talking Nagini into dumping her present boyfriend, Voldemort. It doesn't really matter where Harry got the ability at this point in the game, but I think it was transferred although I'd like to think it was Harry's good genes. Conversely if Voldemort transferred more powers, more power to Harry!

Dumbledore might have been able to speak it although it doesn't matter now.

The part about Voldemort sparing Lily because ofher ability to speak it is farfetched and unimportant as well. Am I a party-pooper? Sorry!

SoccerDM
In the big interveiw with Melissa and Emerson JKR says, "So, what you remember is accurate in the Pensieve...It's reality"

When we think of the Pensieve we think of a tape recorder that you can be inside of, because that is the closest thing we have. A Pensieve is only like that in one way...it shows your memories. It is totally different otherwise. It is not nessicarily how you remember it but how it really was. This is what makes it great to find patterns as Dumbledore says. I think you would be able to use Leginiments (Sp?) because it is practially reality, I think a persons thoughts would be included in the mermory...that would make it all the more appealing to people to know what they were REALLY thinking at the time, I know I would use it!!

Thanks for posting this editorial, because it points some interesting things like why Dumbledore didn't ask for a translation of Parseltongue in the memories (which, for me, recalls much Harry wondering how he could have learn Mermish - HBP, The White Tomb).

Parseltongue is certainly more common than we think. There are several mentions of Parselmouths here in and there, especially in Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them, and it had never been said that Salazar Slytherin had to be the first ever Parselmouth or that all the remaining Parselmouths had to be his descendants.
I also agree that there must have been some people who must have been exclude from the worst dark families for marrying muggles or for being squibs, and that some "muggle-born" witches and wizards can be descendants for wizards who had live several centuries before and could have inherited special abilities (like Parseltongue) that have been unknown in their families for a very very long time.
However, I disagree with most of your theories about Dumbledore, Lily or Harry.

First, as said before, we know for sure Harry is no descendant of Slytherin's, so Lily is not either. And as Dumbledore is positive that Voldemort is the last descendant of Slytherin, this mean that he isn't his descendant either.

2nd, Dumbledore seem nearly certain Harry is a Parselmouth because this ability had been transfered to him from Voldemort. He says it again in HBP. And he wouldn't have made this far-fetched conclusion if he had had any reason to think that Harry could have inherited it from one of his parents (the usual way).
He must have known James' genealogy, so this means that we can be pretty certain that none of James' ancestors had ever been a (known) Parselmouth.
Lily would be more likely, but if she had inherited Parselmouth ability from a magical ancestor, it must be in a very indirect way for Dumbledore not knowing (nor suspecting) it, and it's likely that she never known herself that she had this ability. (I wonder if it could have any relation with Duddley's worst memory?)
And, at least, this mean that none of them could have helped translate what was said in Parseltongue in the memories.

3rd, if Dumbledore were a Parselmouth himself, the whole story of CoS wouldn't make sense.
If Dumbledore could hear the snake speaking as Harry did, he could have prevented most of the attacks, and I am certain that Dumbledore would not have let his students being harmed and the school being on the verge to be closed if he had any way to inevitate it. If he could speak Parseltongue, he could have gone himself in the Chamber of Secrets and kill the basilik. (Yes, I know, maybe he could have used Fawkes to enter it even if he were not a Parselmouth, and he didn't do it ; but we don't really know how he used Fawkes to escape in OotP, and maybe this was not possible due to some special protections of the Chamber).

I think that what some have said about the twelve uses of the dragon blood or about learning Parseltongue is very interesting. They may be on something. But I intend to think that if Parseltongue can be learn it may be limitated to learn how to understand Parseltongue when used by wizards (not by snakes).

And I don't know if legilimency can be used on memories of people, but, if it can, this could help Harry to understand many things. A pity Dumbledore didn't tell him this !:no:

Thanks for posting this editorial, because it points some interesting things like why Dumbledore didn't ask for a translation of Parseltongue in the memories (which, for me, recalls much Harry wondering how he could have learn Mermish - HBP, The White Tomb).

Parseltongue is certainly more common than we think. There are several mentions of Parselmouths here in and there, especially in Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them, and it had never been said that Salazar Slytherin had to be the first ever Parselmouth or that all the remaining Parselmouths had to be his descendants.
I also agree that there must have been some people who must have been exclude from the worst dark families for marrying muggles or for being squibs, and that some "muggle-born" witches and wizards can be descendants for wizards who had live several centuries before and could have inherited special abilities (like Parseltongue) that have been unknown in their families for a very very long time.
However, I disagree with most of your theories about Dumbledore, Lily or Harry.

First, as said before, we know for sure Harry is no descendant of Slytherin's, so Lily is not either. And as Dumbledore is positive that Voldemort is the last descendant of Slytherin, this mean that he isn't his descendant either.

2nd, Dumbledore seem nearly certain Harry is a Parselmouth because this ability had been transfered to him from Voldemort. He says it again in HBP. And he wouldn't have made this far-fetched conclusion if he had had any reason to think that Harry could have inherited it from one of his parents (the usual way).
He must have known James' genealogy, so this means that we can be pretty certain that none of James' ancestors had ever been a (known) Parselmouth.
Lily would be more likely, but if she had inherited Parselmouth ability from a magical ancestor, it must be in a very indirect way for Dumbledore not knowing (nor suspecting) it, and it's likely that she never known herself that she had this ability. (I wonder if it could have any relation with Duddley's worst memory?)
And, at least, this mean that none of them could have helped translate what was said in Parseltongue in the memories.

3rd, if Dumbledore were a Parselmouth himself, the whole story of CoS wouldn't make sense.
If Dumbledore could hear the snake speaking as Harry did, he could have prevented most of the attacks, and I am certain that Dumbledore would not have let his students being harmed and the school being on the verge to be closed if he had any way to inevitate it. If he could speak Parseltongue, he could have gone himself in the Chamber of Secrets and kill the basilik. (Yes, I know, maybe he could have used Fawkes to enter it even if he were not a Parselmouth, and he didn't do it ; but we don't really know how he used Fawkes to escape in OotP, and maybe this was not possible due to some special protections of the Chamber).

I think that what some have said about the twelve uses of the dragon blood or about learning Parseltongue is very interesting. They may be on something. But I intend to think that if Parseltongue can be learn it may be limitated to learn how to understand Parseltongue when used by wizards (not by snakes).

And I don't know if legilimency can be used on memories of people, but, if it can, this could help Harry to understand many things. A pity Dumbledore didn't tell him this !:no:

I agree with most of your points regarding the Parselmouth subject...except for the part where you talked about Dumbledore in CoS...yes, you may be right that if he was a Parselmouth, he would've been able to do all those you mentioned. But it could also be possible that it's Harry who's the only Parselmouth present everytime the basilisk starts to move...remember, Dumbledore wasn't there when they went to the Chamber...my questino though is that how did Fawkes find the Chamber of Secrets? Could it be that Dumbledore instructed her which leads to the conclusion that Dumbledore may have known where the Chamber of Secrets was...

And about the editorial, I think it's kind of not making sense to think that Harry's ancestors could have been heirs of Slytherin...we all know that Lily and James were in Gryffindor...and remember what Professor Dumbledore said to Harry in CoS to prove that Harry was indeed meant for the Gryffindor house?..yes...Godric Gryffindor's Sword...you know what I mean...so the chances of Harry having a Slytherin blood is so small...and of course, of Dumbledore being wrong of his theories regarding the matter as well[his mistake about Sirius is understandable...he never knew what really happened! He thought Sirius WAS the Secret Keeper...there's actually a good editorial about this whole Fidelius Charm thing...I forgot what the title was]...

UPDATE: MuggleNet actually made an update about debunked rumours...and this issue is, in a way, debunked there as well...

I agree with most of your points regarding the Parselmouth subject...except for the part where you talked about Dumbledore in CoS...yes, you may be right that if he was a Parselmouth, he would've been able to do all those you mentioned. But it could also be possible that it's Harry who's the only Parselmouth present everytime the basilisk starts to move...remember, Dumbledore wasn't there when they went to the Chamber...my questino though is that how did Fawkes find the Chamber of Secrets? Could it be that Dumbledore instructed her which leads to the conclusion that Dumbledore may have known where the Chamber of Secrets was...


Fawkes was summoned in the Chamber by Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore, for one thing. Maybe he found the Chamber in a similar way the Death Eater find Voldemort's location : by Apparating not towards somewhere, but towards someone.

But I agree that Dumbledore must have known the location of the Chamber, or, at least, the location of its entrance. If Harry and Ron were able to find it within a few months, Dumbledore was certainly able to do it in 50 years time.
So this mean that either he was unable to enter it or he chose for some reason not to do it. One can think that once Tom Riddle had left school in 1945 Dumbledore thought that the danger was away and there was no need to go and kill the basilic. But even if he wasn't at the right place to hear the snake speaking in CoS, he knew immediately what was going on when he saw the petrified Mrs Norris, and after the attack on Colin Creevy, he couldn't doubt there was a huge danger for many of the students. So, knowing Dumbledore as we do, can we really believe that, if were a Parselmouth, he would not have gone down the Chamber immediately at this point in order to kill the basilic ? I can believe that he waited some time after the attack on Mrs Norris, trying to discover how Voldemort was doing this without endangering whoever he was using, because she was, after all, only a pet ; but I can't imagine that he chose to go on this way once there had been attacks on students if he could have helped it.

Legamency requires direct eye contact. Although it hasn't been stated in the books, I'm guessing this is because of the detail that eyes can reveal. When someone is gazing into someone else’s eyes, both people feel a certain way and the way a person's eyes look, such as when a person is trying to look innocent when telling a lie, reveals inward thoughts and emotions. By viewing a memory in the pensive, one of the people does not see, know, or recognize the other. Because of this, the eyes of that person reveal nothing when trying to use Legamency. And besides, Snape made it clear that Legamency is not Mind Reading.



3rd, if Dumbledore were a Parselmouth himself, the whole story of CoS wouldn't make sense.
If Dumbledore could hear the snake speaking as Harry did, he could have prevented most of the attacks, and I am certain that Dumbledore would not have let his students being harmed and the school being on the verge to be closed if he had any way to inevitate it. If he could speak Parseltongue, he could have gone himself in the Chamber of Secrets and kill the basilik. (Yes, I know, maybe he could have used Fawkes to enter it even if he were not a Parselmouth, and he didn't do it ; but we don't really know how he used Fawkes to escape in OotP, and maybe this was not possible due to some special protections of the Chamber).


Your points are very valid. But this isn't to say Dumbledore couldn't learn to understand Parseltongue. Dumbledore could possibly decipher the hissing sounds without actually being a Parselmouth. The biggest difference between the two is shown by Harry. Harry is a Parselmouth. When Harry hears hissings from a snake, to Harry, it sounds like human voices. For Dumbledore, it would simply sound like hisses.

Your points are very valid. But this isn't to say Dumbledore couldn't learn to understand Parseltongue. Dumbledore could possibly decipher the hissing sounds without actually being a Parselmouth. The biggest difference between the two is shown by Harry. Harry is a Parselmouth. When Harry hears hissings from a snake, to Harry, it sounds like human voices. For Dumbledore, it would simply sound like hisses.

Right. But remember that, if anyone can hear a Parselmouth wizard hissing when speaking Parseltongue, Harry was the only one who could hear the basilic speaking in the pipes in CoS. Ron & Hermione were with him and didn't hear anything at all. So my point is, even if it may be possible to learn how to decipher Parseltongue when spoken by a wizard, it's most probably impossible to someone who is not a true natural Parselmouth to hear and understand snakes.
And, considering the story of CoS, it's most probable that Dumbledore was not able to speak Parseltongue too (not well enough to open the Chamber, at least). So we could wonder if it's possible to learn to speak it at all. If it were, from what we know about Dumbledore's research about Voldemort's past, it's most probable that he would have spoken it by that time.
So my understanding of it is Dumbledore is no natural Parselmouth, and, even if had been able to learn it some way, he is most probably only able to understand it when spoken by wizards. That's it.

Fawkes was summoned in the Chamber by Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore, for one thing. Maybe he found the Chamber in a similar way the Death Eater find Voldemort's location : by Apparating not towards somewhere, but towards someone.

But I agree that Dumbledore must have known the location of the Chamber, or, at least, the location of its entrance. If Harry and Ron were able to find it within a few months, Dumbledore was certainly able to do it in 50 years time.
So this mean that either he was unable to enter it or he chose for some reason not to do it. One can think that once Tom Riddle had left school in 1945 Dumbledore thought that the danger was away and there was no need to go and kill the basilic. But even if he wasn't at the right place to hear the snake speaking in CoS, he knew immediately what was going on when he saw the petrified Mrs Norris, and after the attack on Colin Creevy, he couldn't doubt there was a huge danger for many of the students. So, knowing Dumbledore as we do, can we really believe that, if were a Parselmouth, he would not have gone down the Chamber immediately at this point in order to kill the basilic ? I can believe that he waited some time after the attack on Mrs Norris, trying to discover how Voldemort was doing this without endangering whoever he was using, because she was, after all, only a pet ; but I can't imagine that he chose to go on this way once there had been attacks on students if he could have helped it.

you've got a point again...but then we also know that Dumbledore has his own way of doing things which usually includes prolonging some must-do things[just like when he decided to not tell Harry everything that he needed to know until after the Ministry of Magic, Department of Mysteries incident]...perhaps he was doing the same thing here but then he wasn't able to go on with the plan because he was "sent out" of Hogwarts...but that seems farfetched, doesn't it?...:lol:

but then we also know that Dumbledore has his own way of doing things which usually includes prolonging some must-do things [just like when he decided to not tell Harry everything that he needed to know until after the Ministry of Magic, Department of Mysteries incident]...perhaps he was doing the same thing here but then he wasn't able to go on with the plan because he was "sent out" of Hogwarts...but that seems farfetched, doesn't it?...:lol:

Not much more than the problem that I just thought about. Why didn't he simply ask Harry to open the Chamber for him?
I suppose we know the answer of this question : the plan. Dumbledore would not have endangered Harry voluntarily when he had spend so much energy to protect him. After all, as a half-blood, he was not a potential victim of the Heir of Slytherin. And he had nearly died when facing Voldemort the year before. So he would not imply Harry if he could help him.
On the other hand, once Harry is obviously implied (after Hermione got petrified), he nearly sent him to the danger with very little help, and endanger him even much more than he would have by asking Harry a few months before : "please, you are able to open the Chamber of Secret, so come and open it for me, and stay safely near the door during I am dealing with the monster".
But I suppose this is again an example of those special way of Dumbledore's you just mentionned above.:rolleyes:

(Which doesn't chance my mind about the fact Dumbledore would have reacted immediately if he could when his students were endangered ; the only thing is Harry is even more important to him than the average Hogwarts student.)

Not much more than the problem that I just thought about. Why didn't he simply ask Harry to open the Chamber for him?
I suppose we know the answer of this question : the plan. Dumbledore would not have endangered Harry voluntarily when he had spend so much energy to protect him. After all, as a half-blood, he was not a potential victim of the Heir of Slytherin. And he had nearly died when facing Voldemort the year before. So he would not imply Harry if he could help him.
On the other hand, once Harry is obviously implied (after Hermione got petrified), he nearly sent him to the danger with very little help, and endanger him even much more than he would have by asking Harry a few months before : "please, you are able to open the Chamber of Secret, so come and open it for me, and stay safely near the door during I am dealing with the monster".
But I suppose this is again an example of those special way of Dumbledore's you just mentionned above.:rolleyes:

(Which doesn't chance my mind about the fact Dumbledore would have reacted immediately if he could when his students were endangered ; the only thing is Harry is even more important to him than the average Hogwarts student.)

I didn't exactly get your whole point there but what I was tryin' to say that Dumbledore would have been able to stop all that was happening if he was not sent out of Hogwarts and if Harry didn't get there before him. In other words, time and the situation weren't on his side at that time.

Thank you all for the feedback, I really don't think it is all that plausible that Harry got the ability from anywhere else but the rebounded curse, but hey, someone's got to play devil's advocate! Wouldn't it be fun though?
PS Special thanks to the person that noticed the use of 'obfuscate' ! I have been dying to use that word in context for about twenty years!
PPS I sent it in under my muggle name....

dumbledore is probably so good at legimency that he could just get the translation of parselmouth out of harry or even voldemort's mind

dumbledore is probably so good at legimency that he could just get the translation of parselmouth out of harry or even voldemort's mind

Good point there...but why did he have to ask Harry if he understood it?

I still think that Dumbledore did have the conversations in Parseltongue in the Gaunt House translated already...after all, it wasn't the first time that he visited it...

I'm sorry if someone already pointed this out, but while this is all really well thought out, the part that Harry might have inherited parseltongue from Slytherin is a debunked rumor. As for Dumbledore, somehow I just don't think he's a parseltongue. I thnk he would have told Harry if he was.

someone's got to play devil's advocate! Wouldn't it be fun though?
Yes, we always need someone to play devil's advocate. And this was really fun to discuss those theories. Thanks !:D

I didn't exactly get your whole point there but what I was tryin' to say that Dumbledore would have been able to stop all that was happening if he was not sent out of Hogwarts and if Harry didn't get there before him. In other words, time and the situation weren't on his side at that time.

My point is Dumbledore had several months between the moment Colin Creevy get petrified and the moment he got expelled by the governors. So I don't by your argument about the time and the situation. If he wanted deal with the problem of the Chamber of the Secrets and was able to do it, he had far enough time to do it himself.

dumbledore is probably so good at legimency that he could just get the translation of parselmouth out of harry or even voldemort's mind
Voldemort is doubtful. He is good occlumens and he wouldn't let Dumbledore enter his mind. But it's possible with Harry who is a very bad occlumens. Dumbledore may indeed had get the understanding to what is said in Parseltongue directly by using legilimency on him.

Good point there...but why did he have to ask Harry if he understood it?
To make Harry think and help him understanding what is going on.
Remember it's still a kind of private lessons, even if unusual ones. Dumbledore is teaching there, and he is an excellent teacher. He choose to help is student to learn how to think by himself, rather than just giving him the solution. That's a far better way to teach him the knowleldge and the skills he would need later, and to help him to become a man.
JRK as a former teacher must know it.

As for Dumbledore, somehow I just don't think he's a parseltongue. I thnk he would have told Harry if he was.
I agree. Maybe not in CoS, but he would probably have in HBP.

If this is the case, then where did the rest of Slytherin's heirs go to school? Was Slytherin's split with Gryffindor so significant that he sent the rest of the family to Durmstrang?
Salazar Slytherin was angry enough to abandon the school he helped build, wasn't he? The fact that he went as far as building a secret chamber for a beast, just so that he could rid the school of muggleborns, shows how deeply prejudiced he was, and the extents he was willing to go to achieve his goal. So, it would come as no surprise to me that he was unwilling to send his heirs to Hogwarts.

As for sending them to Durmstrang, I don't know. Durmstrang seems to be more about the dark arts than rejecting muggleborns. Yes, the headmaster was an ex-Death Eater, but I don't think he would blatantly refuse to admit muggleborns. Seeing how he wants to project himself as redeemed, he would want to be seen as above such prejudice. As for the Dark Arts, there is a thin line between what is considered Dark magic and what isn't.

What this would indicate is that Dumbledore does understand, either because he has already had it translated or because he is a Parselmouth. Dumbledore himself says that Parseltongue is "a rare ability, and one supposedly connected with the Dark Arts, although, as we know, there are Parselmouths among the great and the good too" (HBP, UK version, page 259).
It is more likely that he had the memory transalated. After all, we know that he has met Morfin in person. If Dumbledore could get him to give up a memory, it does not seem to be too much of a stretch to assume that he also managed to get Morfin to transalate it for him. Or, perhaps the ministry official managed to get it transalated afterwards, so that he could understand the conversation.

The theory that Lily, or someone else in Harry's family tree is a Parselmouth has been put forward many times before in fanfictions. "Harry Potter and the Runespoor Shield" comes to mind. However, it is unlikely, because Lily, like Hermione, is a shining example of how muggleborns can be just as good as, or even better than purebloods.

Besides, there are no other abilities (none so apparent, anyway) that Harry obtained from Voldemort. I think that being a Parselmouth is one of the abilities that truly mark him as an equal to Voldemort. So, interesting as your theory is, I find it hard to agree with.

My point is Dumbledore had several months between the moment Colin Creevy get petrified and the moment he got expelled by the governors. So I don't by your argument about the time and the situation. If he wanted deal with the problem of the Chamber of the Secrets and was able to do it, he had far enough time to do it himself.


I guess you didn't get what I was tryin to say...Like I said, Dumbledore has "his own ways" of doing things...he may have been planning to do something that needed a little more time than what you have mentioned and didn't have because he was sent out of Hogwarts...

Here it is.

For the most part, the magical commuinity feels that parseltounge is a dark art. This can be backed up as the language itself was created simply to controll the basilisk (fantastic beasts i believe) the creation of such a beast is a dark art. Many an auror has said that they would see someone as
a dark wizard if they had this ability (goblet o fire). However, IS this an actual dark art?

Everyone assumes this is a dark art. They hear parseltounge and run to the hills in fear. But, if you think about it, its really a neutral ablity. So you can talk to snakes. Big woo. I can talk to someone in spanish (almost) Is that a dark art?

All im saying is this is plausable. After all, with such a negative connotation, why would any good wizard actually come out and say they have the ability

Before i even got onto the second paragraph, this article made me laugh.
Harry's ability to talk to snakes seems like a much mentioned but rarely discussed subject. I have a feeling it will be an important talent before the series ends
Important talent? Did they not read the CoS?? But i don't think it would play that much of a big part in book seven. Yeah, it may come in useful, no doubt about, heck it might even save Harry from being eaten by Nagini. But otherwise, i dont think it will.

Here it is.

For the most part, the magical commuinity feels that parseltounge is a dark art. This can be backed up as the language itself was created simply to controll the basilisk (fantastic beasts i believe) the creation of such a beast is a dark art. Many an auror has said that they would see someone as
a dark wizard if they had this ability (goblet o fire). However, IS this an actual dark art?

Everyone assumes this is a dark art. They hear parseltounge and run to the hills in fear. But, if you think about it, its really a neutral ablity. So you can talk to snakes. Big woo. I can talk to someone in spanish (almost) Is that a dark art?

All I'm saying is this is plausable. After all, with such a negative connotation, why would any good wizard actually come out and say they have the ability

I don't think that speaking to snakes and speaking to spanish are really on the same level. For one, most spanish people aren't poisonous, and don't bite when they feel threatened or when ordered to (None that I know of, anyway :lol:). People have always feared the unknown. The earliest known user of Parseltongue was Salazar Slytherin (Salazar is a latin-American name, BTW. The other day, on Animal Planet, they featured a guy called Dr. Salazar, who was researching the properties of, get this... Snake Venom). Considering how he turned out to be dark, and how his whole family were notorious pureblood maniacs, it is not really unusual that people consider it a Dark Art.

Consider this. If it was Malfoy who'd used Parseltongue to set the snake on Harry, the readers would have seen it as a dark art, wouldn't they? Harry doesn;t see it as a dark art because he has never used it to harm someone. The aurors would be correct to treat any unknown parselmouths with caution.

now it is possible. very possible. but it is all guess work. okay. dumbledor may be parseltongue... i cant say i wondered that on the second reading of HBP. i did wonder how he knew.
but then there is no way a slytherin could have married a potter.... they are to different. if you remeber, tonks married a MUGGLE. not a wizard. besides the potters were pure blood so they wouldnt have worried. they wouldnt have liked it that they married a gryffindor, but it wouldnt have mattered to them because the potters were pure blood. harry is only half blood because of his mother.
i belivee the book when it says that potter got his parseltongue from voldemort.

Interesting. I thought, when I was reading it, that you were going to refer to the Half-Blood Prince's handwriting. I don't have the quote at hand, but I believe while Harry could read it perfectly, Ron struggled to read it. Now, of course, some people are better at reading messy handwriting than others, but why would Rowling mention it? (She seems to be fairly economical.)

Could it be that the writing was some sort of Parsel-script?

It was a good thought Sarah.I did not think about it much even during the editorial until you mentioned that one of salazar's descendant married either evans or potters.But still i think that harry got this ability to speak to snakes from Voldemort,because Lily was a muggle born and did not even know about magic at all until that letter.And james would had heard about it and surely would had given it a try.But yeah i liked the idea of dumbledore a parseltongue.