Little Questions Answered v8

I never really thought of this but I guess I compared this to English Football in my mind... I know loads of people who support a "losing" team... because it was the team they either chose as a child or where just brought up to support that team or it is their Local team. I guess it could be just a thing that you either understand or you don't.

Ya, that's really quite common. I was brought up rooting for the Clippers(a USA basketball team that has one of the worst records in NBA history but has really turned it around the last two years and is playing quality ball) and will stay that way forever. Like RiverIsis said, you either understand it or you think I'm insane:p

Ya, that's really quite common. I was brought up rooting for the Clippers(a USA basketball team that has one of the worst records in NBA history but has really turned it around the last two years and is playing quality ball) and will stay that way forever. Like RiverIsis said, you either understand it or you think I'm insane:p

That's also consistent with his attitude towards Cho's Tornado's badge -- don't have the books handy, but he challenges her about it, asking if she was always a fan, and commenting that "half the people you see wearing those badges only started supporting them since they started winning the league." (Quote not exact, obviously.) True fans of a sport frequently support the same team for decades, even when they're terrible; such fans also scoff at those who switch to supporting a better team.

That's also consistent with his attitude towards Cho's Tornado's badge -- don't have the books handy, but he challenges her about it, asking if she was always a fan, and commenting that "half the people you see wearing those badges only started supporting them since they started winning the league." (Quote not exact, obviously.) True fans of a sport frequently support the same team for decades, even when they're terrible; such fans also scoff at those who switch to supporting a better team.

Ya, I think that pretty much sums up/kills that question:lol:

Do we have any idea how good the team that Oliver Wood was signed up by is? Puddlemere, wasn't it? It has the sort of name that sounds like a backwoods 4th division team, but you'd think from their name that the Chudley Cannons were hot stuff!

Horcrux4: Well, Dumbledore supported them, so they must be a good team! :p

They also won the league 22 times and the European Cup twice, which isn't bad at all.

Do we have any idea how good the team that Oliver Wood was signed up by is

I don't think we have much information on that one, all that we know is this (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/quidditch/q_teams_britain.html#puddlemere_united)

They've won the league 22 times and the European Cup twice also. Thank-you Wikipedia.

Ok here is a little question that has me stumped .

At the Death Day Party in CoS, Sir Patrick Delaney-Podmore pats Nearly Headless Nick on the back . Does this mean that Ghosts can't pass through each other ?:huh:

Do we ever see a Ghost pass through another in this series?
I can't remember it happening .

Ok here is a little question that has me stumped .

At the Death Day Party in CoS, Sir Patrick Delaney-Podmore pats Nearly Headless Nick on the back . Does this mean that Ghosts can't pass through each other ?:huh:

Do we ever see a Ghost pass through another in this series?
I can't remember it happening .

I'm pretty sure Mugglecast discussed this in their Haloween episode. Ghosts can't pass through each other, otherwise it would be very difficult to play head polo:lol:

I'm pretty sure Mugglecast discussed this in their Haloween episode. Ghosts can't pass through each other, otherwise it would be very difficult to play head polo:lol:

Oh I see ok. I don't get the Mugglecast program . so no passing through each other hmm.

Did it ever officially say that James, Sirius, and Peter became Anamagi in their fifth year or is that a fanfiction thing? Also, did it ever say what year the Marauders were in when they found out Remus was a werewolf?

Did it ever officially say that James, Sirius, and Peter became Anamagi in their fifth year or is that a fanfiction thing?

I looked this up on the Harry potter Lexicon for you and it does say that the three of them became Anamagi in their 5th. year at Hogwarts .

Also, did it ever say what year the Marauders were in when they found out Remus was a werewolf?

The Lexicon says that the three guys found out about Lupin being a Werewolf in their second year at Hogwarts .

I hope that helps .:D

twins:p

Did it ever officially say that James, Sirius, and Peter became Anamagi in their fifth year or is that a fanfiction thing? Also, did it ever say what year the Marauders were in when they found out Remus was a werewolf?It's in PoA, chapter 18. They managed to become animagi in their fifth year. When they realised that Remus was a werewolf is only implied, not told directly. Seems to have been in their second year. ("Took them the best part of three years to work out how to do it.")

Thanks!

another question: If there is no religion in the magical world, why is there a monk? (the ghost of Hufflepuff)
Was he a monk in muggle world, or did the magical society have religion in former times?

another question: If there is no religion in the magical world, why is there a monk? (the ghost of Hufflepuff)
Was he a monk in muggle world, or did the magical society have religion in former times?:tu: Nice catch, guad. I doubt JK wanted him to be muggle, because Sir Nicholas explained to Harry that someone who wants to come back has to be a wizard. So I guess it's a little mistake made by JK.

I doubt JK wanted him to be muggle, because Sir Nicholas explained to Harry that someone who wants to come back has to be a wizard. So I guess it's a little mistake made by JK.
Maybe he was an undercover wizard in monkdisguise in muggle world. Or maybe he chose the life of a monk instead of the life of a wizard. He could be muggle born, after all he's hufflepuff

No one ever said there wasn't religion in the wizarding world. They celebrate Christmas and Easter and stuff. Actually, that's not a very solid arguement. I celebrate that stiff, too; but I'm atheist. But still, no one said there was no religion. And if there isn't, maybe he was a muggleborn and that was how he was raised before he learned he was a wizard.

Maybe he was an undercover wizard in monkdisguise in muggle world. Or maybe he chose the life of a monk instead of the life of a wizard.I absolutely support these theories. :rotfl:

Seriously, that would indeed explain it. We often here that squibs ie prefer to live in wizarding world, but maybe someone chosed different? *cough But I still assume JK didn't think of that herself ;) *cough*

another question: If there is no religion in the magical world, why is there a monk? (the ghost of Hufflepuff)
Was he a monk in muggle world, or did the magical society have religion in former times?


friar

n : a male member of a religious order that originally relied soley on alms


My suspicion is that The Hufflepuff ghost, the Fat Friar wasn't so much religeous as he was a man who liked to give back to society. It says that a friar relies on alms (donations of money, food etc), so maybe he chose to help the poorer wizarding/muggle families by running a charity type of thing.

He could have done the same as Daisy Hookum did. She gave up her magic for a year, maybe he did it completely.
I`d like to know when he lived. Many religions were and always are against magic. The wizard world didn`t fear the burning of witches and wizard as we know from Harry`s History book, but it`s odd to be a wizard and a friar.

But who said there was no religion??? Maybe Jo just didn't mention it so as not to offend anyone. I don't think there is, but it's never been confirmed! Has it?

I have a question: What's Bas Dose? Is it even HP related? I saw it on a bunch of people's icons and signatures. I'm so confused!

But who said there was no religion??? Maybe Jo just didn't mention it so as not to offend anyone. I don't think there is, but it's never been confirmed! Has it?
No it hasn't been confirmed but it has never been touched in the serie. And Annett brings up a very good point about the witchhunt being initiated by religion, so it is indeed odd.

I have a question: What's Bas Dose?I am sending you an owl :)

No it hasn't been confirmed but it has never been touched in the serie. And Annett brings up a very good point about the witchhunt being initiated by religion, so it is indeed odd.

Thank You!:blush:
And I´m interested in Bas Döse, too. As a German I have an idea of the meaning.

Here's the explanation guad sent me.

It's some sort of online band we have created (of fun). We are very rocking members and we have a lifejournal community.

We have a leadsinger, pianopotter, bassoonist, heavymetal vandal bassplayer, drummer, mouth organ, chorus with violin (myself ) image manager, stylist, manager, tresurer, groupies, roadies, fanclub, bodyguards, pastry chef and more (all are CoS members)

WE ARE THE BEST BAND EVAH!!!
Ou worldtour includes Fidji and Azkaban and JKR loves us
And we are always pleased to welcome new fans

another question: If there is no religion in the magical world, why is there a monk? (the ghost of Hufflepuff)
Was he a monk in muggle world, or did the magical society have religion in former times?
As I see it, religion in the wizarding world reflects the Muggle world, so I'm sure there are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and atheist wizards. I don't see any problem with a wizard being a monk, but I'm more concerned that an apparently religious person chose to become a ghost rather than going to heaven. However, there were many reasons for entering monasteries in the past - perhaps the Fat Friar was hiding from Muggle persecution?

No it hasn't been confirmed but it has never been touched in the serie. And Annett brings up a very good point about the witchhunt being initiated by religion, so it is indeed odd.
The books are wisely neutral on religious issues, to appeal to a wider audience. British society is fairly secular and so is the vast majority of literature.

As I see it, religion in the wizarding world reflects the Muggle world, so I'm sure there are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and atheist wizards. I don't see any problem with a wizard being a monk, but I'm more concerned that an apparently religious person chose to become a ghost rather than going to heaven. However, there were many reasons for entering monasteries in the past - perhaps the Fat Friar was hiding from Muggle persecution?

I think your right, also we've never seen a wizard wedding, however there's bound to be some religious background in the wedding, unless of course they just walk into the MoM and say I do, which I highly doubt. I understand that "in the real world" people without a religion get married, but that doesn't mean that their wedding doesn't somehow reflects a religion.. I know this actually doesn't have anything to do with the question, just thought I would bring it up since I had been wondering about it.

We do know that Harry was Christened.Does Harry have a godmother? If so, will she make an appearance in future books?

No, he doesn’t. I have thought this through. If Sirius had married… Sirius was too busy being a big rebel to get married. When Harry was born, it was at the very height of Voldemort fever last time so his christening was a very hurried, quiet affair with just Sirius, just the best friend. At that point it looked as if the Potters would have to go into hiding so obviously they could not do the big christening thing and invite lots of people. Sirius is the only one, unfortunately.

link (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/news_view.cfm?id=80)

Anabel wrote
I don't see any problem with a wizard being a monk, but I'm more concerned that an apparently religious person chose to become a ghost rather than going to heaven.
Perhaps he feared that it wasn't heaven awaiting him

yeah, because of the whole godfather thing right? Or did JKR say it directly?

I think gertie's right, Jo just didn;t notice it :lol:. It seems to me that the Fat Friar is an ideal Huffleouff, and it just fits that he's a Friar..

yeah, because of the whole godfather thing right? Or did JKR say it directly?
She said it in an interview, which I quoted above. :welcome: to CoS, Lorelai!

And I´m interested in Bas Döse, too. As a German I have an idea of the meaning.
Will send you an owl too. :D
I don't see any problem with a wizard being a monk, but I'm more concerned that an apparently religious person chose to become a ghost rather than going to heaven. However, there were many reasons for entering monasteries in the past - perhaps the Fat Friar was hiding from Muggle persecution? The heaven point is interesting too. And thinking of it, if ghosts exist in wizarding world, doesn't that contradict the idea of heaven, hell and purgatory? (maybe that's not exactly a little question)

The heaven point is interesting too. And thinking of it, if ghosts exist in wizarding world, doesn't that contradict the idea of heaven, hell and purgatory? (maybe that's not exactly a little question)
No, that's quite a big question, isn't it! I don't think we are meant to take things that seriously in the Potterverse. But there are lots of British ghosts from the era when most of the population was officially Christian. We could just assume that the Fat Friar had reasons for wanting to stay behind, be it someone he didn't want to leave, or dread of what awaited him in the afterlife!

As I see it, religion in the wizarding world reflects the Muggle world, so I'm sure there are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and atheist wizards.

To prove your point that Wizarding world have religion we have Harry as you say is Christian and then we have the Patil twins who look like Hindu although we don't have any canon supporting it but still the name is enough to suggest so. ;)

Sidenote- Looks like Bas Dose is attracting loads of people. :clap:

She said it in an interview, which I quoted above. :welcome: to CoS, Lorelai!
Thanks! oh and please call me Rory (goes for all of you!) :)
Come to think of it has JKR ever confirmed that there's a wizard school in Salem? Or is it just the ff writers who have made it the "official" American school because of Salems "History"?

Well it is possible Harry isn't Christian despite being Christened. There are many children who are baptised/christened but not really brought up as Christians, and we don't know if it might have adifferent significance for wizards.

[off topic]There does seem to be quite some interested doesn't there?[/off topic]

Thanks! oh and please call me Rory (goes for all of you!) :)
Come to think of it has JKR ever confirmed that there's a wizard school in Salem? Or is it just the ff writers who have made it the "official" American school because of Salems "History"?

As far as I know it's not canon. But it makes good sense to place a magic school there

Come to think of it has JKR ever confirmed that there's a wizard school in Salem? Or is it just the ff writers who have made it the "official" American school because of Salems "History"?
There's a Salem witches institute at the Quidditch world cup. But there's nothing to say it's a school.

But what else could an institute be?

About the Fat Friar. As already said we don't know when he lived. It may have been long before witch hunting era. A thousand years ago there was no conflict between the church and wizardry.

But what else could an institute be?



I always imagined it to be like the Woman's Institute, like a way of witches meeting other witches

No one ever said there wasn't religion in the wizarding world. They celebrate Christmas and Easter and stuff. Actually, that's not a very solid arguement. I celebrate that stiff, too; but I'm atheist. But still, no one said there was no religion. And if there isn't, maybe he was a muggleborn and that was how he was raised before he learned he was a wizard.There were also some nuns at Nearly Headless Nick's Deathday Party. Perhaps JKR just decided not to emphasize the religious aspect of wizarding culture. She can't possibly fit everything in.

There was no religious aspect emphasized at Dumbledore's funeral. That is one event that often has religious traditions on display. The other event would be a wedding. I wonder if we'll get to actually see Bill and Fleur's wedding in the next book or will it just be mentioned in passing.

I think we will at least see the time around the wedding. It could well be a significant time, Harry leaving the Dursley's, and probably like a relax before the year they have a head, and possibly a time to get together ideas and plans

Perhaps JKR just decided not to emphasize the religious aspect of wizarding culture. She can't possibly fit everything in.

Agreed. She'd have to rebut the attacks of dissapointed Christians/Muslims/Jews etc. if sha dared to apply a visible religious connection. Instead, she offers some general ideas between the lines, like, e.g. compassion, friendship, loyalty, responsibility... ethics rather than any religious belief. Safe. Not very brave, but safe.

But what else could an institute be?

About the Fat Friar. As already said we don't know when he lived. It may have been long before witch hunting era. A thousand years ago there was no conflict between the church and wizardry.

It doesn't bother me that the Fat Friar is a ghost... I think many persons many years ago joined religious orders to escape the real world. I would also think that a religious institution would be ready to accept him, and his deeds for muggles be classified as "miracles". It would be interesting to know when he existed...

IMO I have this vision of him existing in the middle ages, and that would help because I would think that MoM laws have developed over the course of time and therefore he may have been able to perform magic for muggles, thus they think he is performing miracles and are happy to let him be in the monastary but in fact he has no true faith and therefore chose to be a ghost to be on the safe side.

Agreed. She'd have to rebut the attacks of dissapointed Christians/Muslims/Jews etc. if sha dared to apply a visible religious connection. Instead, she offers some general ideas between the lines, like, e.g. compassion, friendship, loyalty, responsibility... ethics rather than any religious belief. Safe. Not very brave, but safe.

She's writing books for children. It isn't a matter of not being brave, it's a matter of the information not being relevant.

She's writing books for children. It isn't a matter of not being brave, it's a matter of the information not being relevant.

However, C.S. Lewis wrote Narnia series for children as well, and he somehow found this notion relevant.
But you are right, brave is not the word. Engaged, perhaps.

However, C.S. Lewis wrote Narnia series for children as well, and he somehow found this notion relevant.
But you are right, brave is not the word. Engaged, perhaps.

CS Lewis was a theologian, so it stands to reason that his life's work would be reflected in his writing.

I believe that if you look back through British History that in the last 1000 years Religion/Church held a very big part of everyones life.
Fitting in and hiding was important to the Wizards back then and today as well , so openly following one religion or another was a good way to fit in/hide your true self from the muggle public . What they believed in private was their own business . I think that the Fat Friar was just hiding in plain sight by being a Friar.

CS Lewis was a theologian, so it stands to reason that his life's work would be reflected in his writing.

Yes, but the question was why JK did not apply religious aspect in her novels - and I argued with the thesis that it's because she was writing for children.

Frankly, I don't think writer must be an engaged theologist to use the above in his or her works. And yes, it is the matter of what you think is relevant. Seems it's not relevant for JK.
EDIT: For my reasoning on what she applies instead, see my first post on this matter.

If I remember right, Jo said in an interview, answering the question if religion is relevant fo her, that after reading the last book we would know what she is believing.

But what else could an institute be?I always imagined it to be like the Woman's Institute, like a way of witches meeting other witchesDefinitely! An institute can be lots of things, but in connection with a group of witches, I'd say it was like a club they were in - like the Womens' Institute in England. (eg in the film Calendar Girls (http://www.calendargirls.tv/), which I loved BTW!)

I believe that if you look back through British History that in the last 1000 years Religion/Church held a very big part of everyones life.
Fitting in and hiding was important to the Wizards back then and today as well , so openly following one religion or another was a good way to fit in/hide your true self from the muggle public . What they believed in private was their own business . I think that the Fat Friar was just hiding in plain sight by being a Friar.
But I don't see anything about the wizarding world which is incompatible with religious beliefs. It's not as if they are conjuring up spirits and worshipping Satan! And, as I said, Jo has confirmed that Harry was Christened, so we can safely assume that Lily and James were Christians. There is just no need to play this up in the books, since it isn't relevant to the story. I see no reason to assume that the Fat Friar and the nun ghosts mentioned were not genuinely Christian, any more that I see reason to assume that Padma and Parvarti are not Hindus.

If I remember right, Jo said in an interview, answering the question if religion is relevant fo her, that after reading the last book we would know what she is believing.
In an interview with Max Wyman of The Vancouver Sun, she said: "Every time I've been asked if I believe in God, I've said yes, because I do; but no one ever really has gone any more deeply into it than that, and I have to say that does suit me -- because if I talk too freely about that, I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books."
link (http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2000/1000-vancouversun-wyman.htm)

In an interview with Max Wyman of The Vancouver Sun, she said:

You are Hermione, it`s unbelievable! I thought I remember many of the stuff around the books, but you are miles away. Thank you!

Anabel, thanks for the quote - I didn't hear it before, now I have quite a lot to think about.

Definitely! An institute can be lots of things, but in connection with a group of witches, I'd say it was like a club they were in - like the Womens' Institute in England. (eg in the film Calendar Girls (http://www.calendargirls.tv/), which I loved BTW!)Okay. I was just following my dear Concise Oxford English Dictionary which says "an organization for the promotion of science, education, etc." That can of course cover a lot of things, but a place where teaching is done is what first comes to mind for me. We also know that Durmstrang Institute is a school. :)

The question why Jo hasn't included more religion in her books is perhaps not exactly a little question. Any one who wants to continue on that topic please do it here:
Religion in the Wizarding World...v2 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=89616)

Definitely! An institute can be lots of things, but in connection with a group of witches, I'd say it was like a club they were in - like the Womens' Institute in England. (eg in the film Calendar Girls, which I loved BTW!)

I always understood the Witches Institute at the World Cup to be something like a quilting club not a school....and of course there are also mental institutes!!!

I always understood the Witches Institute at the World Cup to be something like a quilting club not a school....and of course there are also mental institutes!!!

Aren't they mental institutions?

I thought of the Witches Institute as more of a society than a school.

Aren't they mental institutions?

Well true, but you do have the "National Institute of Mental Health" - so it does go hand in hand!

Well true, but you do have the "National Institute of Mental Health" - so it does go hand in hand!

I should just stop typing, everything I write is wrong. :grumble: ;)

Can someone help me with a timeline question? Was Snape hired as the Potions teacher before or after the Potters were killed? Was he at Hogwarts as a spy for Voldemort only at any point or was he always a double agent? (Or whatever it is that he is.)

Snape told Umbridge in autumn/fall 1995 that he is a teacher at Hogwarts since 14 years. This means he is teaching since 1981. He was hired quite close to the Potters death, but it isn`t official wether before ore after that.

I agree, I don't think we know for sure if it was before or after the Potters were killed by Voldemort.

edit: From the lexicon

Career: Hired as Potions Master & Head of Slytherin House at Hogwarts in 1981 (OP17); made Defense against the Dark Arts professor in 1996. Now a fugitive, whereabouts unknown.

I agree, I don't think we know for sure if it was before or after the Potters were killed by Voldemort.

edit: From the lexicon

Career: Hired as Potions Master & Head of Slytherin House at Hogwarts in 1981 (OP17); made Defense against the Dark Arts professor in 1996. Now a fugitive, whereabouts unknown.


So that means that Snape obtained a job as teacher the same year that the Potters died.

James Potter: Died: 31 October 1981; murdered by Lord Voldemort at Godric's Hollow. link (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/james.html)

So if the Potters died 31 Oct, and the school year starts Sept. that means Snape was hired BEFORE the Potters were murdered.

Yes, but I think me can take for sure, that he wasn`t a teacher when the propecy was made. Trelawney said somewhere, that he overheard here job interview because he wanted the job. The prophecy was made in a cold night the same year. This means the earliest start for Snape`s beginning as a teacher is spring 1981.

So if the Potters died 31 Oct, and the school year starts Sept. that means Snape was hired BEFORE the Potters were murdered.

Because I think Slughorn was his direct predecessor I think it is possible that he has retired with the end of school year. But that`s my humble opinion. That would make him a teacher and at Hogwarts when the Potter`s were murdered

I don't think it's possible to say for sure exactly when Snape got the job at Hogwarts. We know he joined Dumbledore before the events at Godric's Hollow, and that he got the job the same year but we don't know if he started in September or later in the year. (I'm inclined to think that Dumbledore wouldn't let him teach until after Voldemort's defeat, and also that he had other work to do (for the Order) before then. Then, as a reward for his spying, and because he probably had nowhere else to go, Dumbledore invited him to Hogwarts.)

I don't think it's possible to say for sure exactly when Snape got the job at Hogwarts. We know he joined Dumbledore before the events at Godric's Hollow, and that he got the job the same year but we don't know if he started in September or later in the year. (I'm inclined to think that Dumbledore wouldn't let him teach until after Voldemort's defeat, and also that he had other work to do (for the Order) before then. Then, as a reward for his spying, and because he probably had nowhere else to go, Dumbledore invited him to Hogwarts.)


Also likely. Im confused:lol:

I don't think it's possible to say for sure exactly when Snape got the job at Hogwarts. We know he joined Dumbledore before the events at Godric's Hollow, and that he got the job the same year but we don't know if he started in September or later in the year. (I'm inclined to think that Dumbledore wouldn't let him teach until after Voldemort's defeat, and also that he had other work to do (for the Order) before then. Then, as a reward for his spying, and because he probably had nowhere else to go, Dumbledore invited him to Hogwarts.)
Snape tells us in October 1995:

'Now... how long have you been teaching at Hogwarts?' she [Umbridge] asked, her quill poised over her clipboard.
'Fourteen years,' Snape replied.
So he must have been working at Hogwarts in or around October 1981, so it's more likely that not that he started in September of that year as we know Slughorn retired rather than resigning or being sacked. We also find out that Snape originally applied for the DADA job.

So he must have been working at Hogwarts in or around October 1981, so it's more likely that not that he started in September of that year as we know Slughorn retired rather than resigning or being sacked. We also find out that Snape originally applied for the DADA job.
In or around October still doesn't tell us for certain whether it as before or after Godric's Hollow, though - 31st October. If Snape had been teaching for 13 year and 11 months, he would still have rounded it up to 14 for Umbridge.

I would assume that he started at the beginning of the school year and before the Potters died. McGonagall mentions that she started later in the school year, but I think that was because Dippet died and Dumbledore was taking his place. If Snape had started any other time I think it would have also been mentioned, especially since it had such an important implication.

While it is reasonable to assume he started at the beginning of the school year, it's not something we can take for granted. We simply don't have the evidence.

Can we consider this answered as much as possible already, and move on?

Ok, since I am with a cold in bed I read yesterday PoA and then now I am starting GoF.
Two questions:

In the end of PoA Sirius gives the tiny owl to Ron. Then in GoF, the tiny owl named Pig delivers the letters to Harry from Ron. I always assumed it was the same, but Harry doesn't seem to recognize it, it seems that it's the first time he sees that owl, and Ron in one occasion says 'Why do I always get the dodgy things' or something like that (when Pig eats a big owl cookie). So I don't know if JKR simply forgot that this was a present from Sirius or they forgot, or it's not important?

Then the Riddle mansion: the wealthy man who is paying Frank since the death of the Riddles, who is it? I mean, I assumed that the Riddles have no other heir than Voldemort, (besides the fact that for muggleworld, Voldy doesn't exist) but Voldy couldn't pay when he was in Hogwarts or working at B&B, let alone when he was vaporized. I would guess that he maybe gave the order to Lucius, but that doesn't explain the Hogwarts and B&B years. Or did he imperious some random rich muggle?

In the end of PoA Sirius gives the tiny owl to Ron. Then in GoF, the tiny owl named Pig delivers the letters to Harry from Ron. I always assumed it was the same, but Harry doesn't seem to recognize it, it seems that it's the first time he sees that owl, and Ron in one occasion says 'Why do I always get the dodgy things' or something like that (when Pig eats a big owl cookie). So I don't know if JKR simply forgot that this was a present from Sirius or they forgot, or it's not important?I've reread it and I actually didn't get the impression, that Harry didn't notice that it was the owl Ron got from Sirius. It seems to be that way of introducing something we already know again we sometimes see by her. Hagrid is described as something hairy sometimes before mentioned by name.

Then the Riddle mansion: the wealthy man who is paying Frank since the death of the Riddles, who is it? I mean, I assumed that the Riddles have no other heir than Voldemort, (besides the fact that for muggleworld, Voldy doesn't exist) but Voldy couldn't pay when he was in Hogwarts or working at B&B, let alone when he was vaporized. I would guess that he maybe gave the order to Lucius, but that doesn't explain the Hogwarts and B&B years. Or did he imperious some random rich muggle?In my opinion it's a muggle without deeper meaning, but I can be wrong.


Hope you feel better soon! :)

Then the Riddle mansion: the wealthy man who is paying Frank since the death of the Riddles, who is it? I mean, I assumed that the Riddles have no other heir than Voldemort, (besides the fact that for muggleworld, Voldy doesn't exist) but Voldy couldn't pay when he was in Hogwarts or working at B&B, let alone when he was vaporized. I would guess that he maybe gave the order to Lucius, but that doesn't explain the Hogwarts and B&B years. Or did he imperious some random rich muggle?
JKR had seemed to highlight that in GoF, hadn't she? It always seemed to me that there had been some sort of effort, almost certainly by Voldy, to keep people from actually living in that house. I like the Imperius explanation, since that does not require Voldy's funds. The one danger would be the death of the person under the Imperius. Another possibility is that the house comes with appurtenant agricultural lands (most such homes in Britain do, I've heard) and so a person or a corporation with extensive agricultural interests was induced to add it to the portfolio, and then charms on the house kept people from thinking much about it or doing anything with it. I think the fact the JKR so highlighted that it had been avoided but maintained for so long suggests the likelihood of it being the site of a horcrux. I am not impressed with the argument that the Gaunt shack was nearby. Like with playing 'Battleship' it is often effective to have your hidden objects somewhat clumped (but not so much that someone investigating one would stumble over the other) because the natural tendency is to expect wide dispersal. So, probably the muggle was just a muggle, but I think it will turn out that there is a plot reason a muggle has been maintaining the house.

Kindly note that we have a whole thread dedicated to this mystery.
Who owns the Riddle House? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=87094)

Then the Riddle mansion: the wealthy man who is paying Frank since the death of the Riddles, who is it? I mean, I assumed that the Riddles have no other heir than Voldemort, (besides the fact that for muggleworld, Voldy doesn't exist) but Voldy couldn't pay when he was in Hogwarts or working at B&B, let alone when he was vaporized. I would guess that he maybe gave the order to Lucius, but that doesn't explain the Hogwarts and B&B years. Or did he imperious some random rich muggle?


I had read a theory that the muggle could be Albus Dumbledore in disguise who when he heard about the Riddle's death bought it from them so as to find any clue that got him close to the relationship between Merope and Tom Riddle senior so that he could get a better insight into Voldemort's past, which would lead him to getting closer to tracking down the Horcruxes. ;)

Edit- I might have been typing while you gave the link Alastor, no offenses meant. :)

Don't you worry! I already guessed that. :D

I've reread it and I actually didn't get the impression, that Harry didn't notice that it was the owl Ron got from Sirius. It seems to be that way of introducing something we already know again we sometimes see by her. Hagrid is described as something hairy sometimes before mentioned by name.
I think the one who forgot was Harry, not Jo. He did recognise Pigwidgeon in the end, but I guess one small owl looks a lot like the next!

Okay, I don't know if this question has been asked before (I'm sorry if it has), but does Veritaserum work if a. The person's under the Imperius Curse, ordered not to tell the truth or b. They've had their memory wiped and can't remember the truth? In short, which is stronger: the potion or spells?

Okay, I don't know if this question has been asked before (I'm sorry if it has), but does Veritaserum work if a. The person's under the Imperius Curse, ordered not to tell the truth or b. They've had their memory wiped and can't remember the truth? In short, which is stronger: the potion or spells?

I would imagine that the veritaserum would prevail because it is the strongest truth potion around. The creator probably would have thought of that while he was brewing it

Given that Jo has said that Veritaserum can be overcome by Occlumency or Transfiguration, I would say a spell could be stronger than the potion.

It does sound like veritaserum only works on people who are weak at the time. It worked on barty crouch because he had just been attacked by the teachers coming in to the office. It could also be like the imperious curse, where you can use your will power to resist it. As far as a memory charm goes, I don't think it would work because then the person really wouldn't know what the truth was. I do think that it could work even with the imperious curse and that really the only thing to stop it would be your own will, like occlumency, etc.

I don't think it only works on weak people because Umbridge tried to slip Harry some. Now we may know that Umbridge isn't the er.....*tries not to character bash*nicest person, but she's not stupid. If it only worked on weak people, she wouldn't bother wasting it on Harry.

I don't think it only works on weak people because Umbridge tried to slip Harry some. Now we may know that Umbridge isn't the er.....*tries not to character bash*nicest person, but she's not stupid. If it only worked on weak people, she wouldn't bother wasting it on Harry.

I agree about the weak thing. I remember hearing that it worked better if the person it was being used on was unsuspecting of it. But Harry isnt very strong in occulemency, so Im sure it would work on him.

I also think though that spells are stronger then it, that is why it is not used at trials more often... sort of the same as lie detector tests, its not completely accurate.

I agree about the weak thing. I remember hearing that it worked better if the person it was being used on was unsuspecting of it. But Harry isnt very strong in occulemency, so Im sure it would work on him.

I also think though that spells are stronger then it, that is why it is not used at trials more often... sort of the same as lie detector tests, its not completely accurate.

I think when they mean expecting it, they're talking about that in the physical sense, not in terms of occlumency or legillemency. i.e. How Moody always drinks from his hip flask, he is definitly lest likely to have veritaserum than someone who eats at the hogwarts tables

I don't think it only works on weak people because Umbridge tried to slip Harry some. Now we may know that Umbridge isn't the er.....*tries not to character bash*nicest person, but she's not stupid. If it only worked on weak people, she wouldn't bother wasting it on Harry.We know that Harry is definately not a weak person but I doubt Umbridge shares these views. I think she thinks that all of the children at Hogwarts are weak and need "proper Ministry direction." I would say she thought it is worth a try, banking on the fact that an authority figure was being nice to a student and offering treats.

Fairly straightforward question. Or does it take more than just skill, magic?

~Blix

I think they could make potions as long as no magic is involved, not all potions take magic to do.

What potion does take "magic"?

~Blix

there has to be magic to combine the ingredients like that. i mean...if it were that simple muggles could do it too. plus they are magical ingredients which muggles coulnt get. but as far as squibs..remember when filch got the kwickspell letter it said something about a lady with a potion that got better...so i dunno cuz thats not exactly the same as being a squib. sigh...i dunno i think it has to require magic. plus they use magic to light the fires in potions and stuff. i think you need magic to make the potions.

I am talking about the potions that don't reqire spells but just the ingredients, Muggles couldn't do potions cause they either couldn't do the spells or get the required ingredients to do it.

Muggles, not an ounce of magic in their veins; a non-magical person.
Squibs, he or she is a non-magical person born to at least one magical parent. Squibs are rare; magic is a dominant and resilient gene.

Non-magical people can't perform magic of any kind. Neither of the two squibs in the series, Figg or Filch, can perform magic, according to JK. Filch's "Kwikspell coarse never worked" according to JK.

In regards to magic & Potions, JK has answered that as well.Can muggles brew potions if they follow the exact instructions and they have all of the ingredients?

J.K. Rowling: Well, I'd have to say no. Because there is always a magical component in the potion. Not just the ingredients so at some point they will have to use a wand. I've been asked what would happen if a muggle picked up a magic wand in my world and the answer would probably be something accidental and probably quite violent because the wand in my world is merely a vehicle or a vessel of sorts and there is a very close relationship as you know between the wand that each wizard uses and themselves. And you'll find out more about that in book 7 (crowd applauds).

For a muggle you need the ability, in other words, to make these things work properly but you're right and I think that's an interesting point. As Potions seems on the face of it to be the most muggle-friendly subject. But there's normally a point in which you need to use magic. Thank you, good question.

Muggles, not an ounce of magic in their veins; a non-magical person.
Squibs, he or she is a non-magical person born to at least one magical parent. Squibs are rare; magic is a dominant and resilient gene.

Non-magical people can't perform magic of any kind. Neither of the two squibs in the series, Figg or Filch, can perform magic, according to JK. Filch's "Kwikspell coarse never worked" according to JK.

In regards to magic & Potions, JK has answered that as well.Can muggles brew potions if they follow the exact instructions and they have all of the ingredients?

J.K. Rowling: Well, I'd have to say no. Because there is always a magical component in the potion. Not just the ingredients so at some point they will have to use a wand. I've been asked what would happen if a muggle picked up a magic wand in my world and the answer would probably be something accidental and probably quite violent because the wand in my world is merely a vehicle or a vessel of sorts and there is a very close relationship as you know between the wand that each wizard uses and themselves. And you'll find out more about that in book 7 (crowd applauds).

For a muggle you need the ability, in other words, to make these things work properly but you're right and I think that's an interesting point. As Potions seems on the face of it to be the most muggle-friendly subject. But there's normally a point in which you need to use magic. Thank you, good question.

Great info! I hardly ever get to see JK's interveiws.

We were told this once by JKR in an interview here is what she said

Can muggles brew potions if they follow the exact instructions and they have all of the ingredients?

J.K. Rowling: Well, I'd have to say no. Because there is always a magical component in the potion. Not just the ingredients so at some point they will have to use a wand. I've been asked what would happen if a muggle picked up a magic wand in my world and the answer would probably be something accidental and probably quite violent because the wand in my world is merely a vehicle or a vessel of sorts and there is a very close relationship as you know between the wand that each wizard uses and themselves. And you'll find out more about that in book 7 (crowd applauds).

For a muggle you need the ability, in other words, to make these things work properly but you're right and I think that's an interesting point. As Potions seems on the face of it to be the most muggle-friendly subject. But there's normally a point in which you need to use magic. Thank you, good question.

So the answer to the muggle aspect of the question is no, but as for whether or not a squib can make a potion or anything to that affect i do not know.

my guess is no but i am not sure.

EDIT:
wow i guess kingwidgit wrote that at the exact same time i did lol so sorry this was posted twice lol

Muggles, not an ounce of magic in their veins; a non-magical person.
Squibs, he or she is a non-magical person born to at least one magical parent. Squibs are rare; magic is a dominant and resilient gene.

Non-magical people can't perform magic of any kind. Neither of the two squibs in the series, Figg or Filch, can perform magic, according to JK. Filch's "Kwikspell coarse never worked" according to JK.

In regards to magic & Potions, JK has answered that as well.Can muggles brew potions if they follow the exact instructions and they have all of the ingredients?

J.K. Rowling: Well, I'd have to say no. Because there is always a magical component in the potion. Not just the ingredients so at some point they will have to use a wand. I've been asked what would happen if a muggle picked up a magic wand in my world and the answer would probably be something accidental and probably quite violent because the wand in my world is merely a vehicle or a vessel of sorts and there is a very close relationship as you know between the wand that each wizard uses and themselves. And you'll find out more about that in book 7 (crowd applauds).

For a muggle you need the ability, in other words, to make these things work properly but you're right and I think that's an interesting point. As Potions seems on the face of it to be the most muggle-friendly subject. But there's normally a point in which you need to use magic. Thank you, good question.
I wonder which Muggle will pick up a wand in book 7? :eyebrows: Or what will happen that makes the relationship between a wizard and his wand significant? I can't wait!!! :clap:

Alright I had a question- How do you think that Draco got the info that Dumbledore (and Harry) had arrived at the Tower, I mean we know that he got the tip of from Rosmerta that Dumbledore was going for a Drink and would be back, but we have no mention of Rosmerta tipping him of his return.

So how do you think that Draco guessed that Dumbledore had arrived at the Tower. :eyebrows:

So how do you think that Draco guessed that Dumbledore had arrived at the Tower.

It was said when Draco was talking to Prof. Dumbledore up on the tower that Draco & Rosmerta used those magical coins .

So we have a Imperioused Rosmerta ,possibily having been instructed to report in anytime She sees or talks to Dumbledore . That way after she lends Dumbledore the Brooms she goes inside and calls Draco to report seeing Dumbledore . So I think thats how he new that Dumbledore was coming back to the tower .

I think you missed this
I mean we know that he got the tip of from Rosmerta that Dumbledore was going for a Drink and would be back, but we have no mention of Rosmerta tipping him of his return.


So we have a Imperioused Rosmerta ,possibily having been instructed to report in anytime She sees or talks to Dumbledore . That way after she lends Dumbledore the Brooms she goes inside and calls Draco to report seeing Dumbledore . So I think thats how he new that Dumbledore was coming back to the tower .


Moreover had she reported to Draco then why didn't she report seeing Harry. :huh:

Moreover had she reported to Draco then why didn't she report seeing Harry.
Well if her instructions were to report seeing Dumbledore, it might be that Dumbledore was the only one she was to report on. Harry being with Him wasn't something she was under orders to report ,so she made no report on Harry being with him . I hope I'm making sense with this .

I understand you and that would make sense.

Moreover had she reported to Draco then why didn't she report seeing Harry. :huh:
I would guess that the Protean Charm on the coin she had allowed for no other information than 'Dumbledore has headed out' - a yes-no kind of thing. There was no provision for giving additional information.

I don't think it's possible to say for sure exactly when Snape got the job at Hogwarts. We know he joined Dumbledore before the events at Godric's Hollow, and that he got the job the same year but we don't know if he started in September or later in the year. (I'm inclined to think that Dumbledore wouldn't let him teach until after Voldemort's defeat, and also that he had other work to do (for the Order) before then. Then, as a reward for his spying, and because he probably had nowhere else to go, Dumbledore invited him to Hogwarts.)
Actually, though I know the info comes from Snape, and can be spun many different ways, he tells us he was at Hogwarts when Voldemort fell, and that it was at Voldemort's request that he took up the 'post'."You ask where I was when the Dark Lord fell. I was where he had ordered me to be, at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, because he wished me to spy upon Albus Dumbledore. You know, I presume, that it was on the Dark Lord's orders that I took up the post?"

She nodded almost imperceptibly...

-------

"But you stayed---"
"Yes, Bellatrix, I stayed," said Snape, betraying a hint of impatience for the first time. "I had a comfortable job."The first part is Snape talking about the post he took up, with Bellatrix seeming to nod agreement that she knew he'd done it on Voldemort's orders.

The second is him commenting he'd stayed because he had a comfortable job.

This doesn't mean he'd started teaching Sept 1, 1981. But it does seem to indicate he was teaching at the time the Potters were murdered.
I would guess that the Protean Charm on the coin she had allowed for no other information than 'Dumbledore has headed out' - a yes-no kind of thing. There was no provision for giving additional information.Since we never saw the coins, we don't really know too much about the communication aspect. We do know it was a bit more than "yes/no/ask again later".

Draco tells us about a communication from Rosmerta via his enchanted coin: "but she said you were just going for a drink, you'd be back..."

I'd hazard a guess that either Rosmerta didn't warn him {for whatever reason} or she did, and he and the Death Eaters were too busy with Ron, Ginny, Neville & the Order members, that Draco didn't have a chance to check his coin.

Well if her instructions were to report seeing Dumbledore, it might be that Dumbledore was the only one she was to report on. Harry being with Him wasn't something she was under orders to report ,so she made no report on Harry being with him . I hope I'm making sense with this .

I guess that makes perfect sense. :tu:

And I agree with the points that you made Kingwidgit.

Actually, though I know the info comes from Snape, and can be spun many different ways, he tells us he was at Hogwarts when Voldemort fell, and that it was at Voldemort's request that he took up the 'post'."You ask where I was when the Dark Lord fell. I was where he had ordered me to be, at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, because he wished me to spy upon Albus Dumbledore. You know, I presume, that it was on the Dark Lord's orders that I took up the post?"

She nodded almost imperceptibly...

-------

"But you stayed---"
"Yes, Bellatrix, I stayed," said Snape, betraying a hint of impatience for the first time. "I had a comfortable job."The first part is Snape talking about the post he took up, with Bellatrix seeming to nod agreement that she knew he'd done it on Voldemort's orders.

The second is him commenting he'd stayed because he had a comfortable job.

This doesn't mean he'd started teaching Sept 1, 1981. But it does seem to indicate he was teaching at the time the Potters were murdered.
Excellent catch! I suppose there is a small possibility that he was camping out at the gates spying on all comings and goings at Hogwarts, and didn't get the job Voldemort wanted him to seek until after Godric's Hollow, but Snape's words at Spinners End pretty much tell us he already had the job when Voldemort fell. Thank you!

I have a question: Can someone tell me where it says James is a Chaser? I know he is, but I was having an arguement with my HP Discussion Group at the library and most of them think he's a Seeker because of the movie! I'm trying to prove them wrong, but I can;t find the place where they mention that he was a Chaser. I think Jo also mentioned it on her site, but I can't find it. Someone please help!

It was an interview that Jo did with scholastic, here's the transcript link:) Source:HP lexicon

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2000/1000-scholastic-chat.htm

Thanks, but didn't she do another one after book five? I'm pretty sure she mentioned that just becasue he was playing with the snitch it doesn't mean he was a Seeker. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter since I have that. I know so much more than the people at my library!!!

I think there`s a nother interview after the release of OotP, but I haven`t found it yet. Because in OotP James played with the snitch and many rumors raised.

Wow, I'd always thought James played Seeker, not so much because of him having the Snitch but because Harry was and I thought it was something he had got from James!

Shows you that you do have to read the interviews to know absolutely everything (or come on here!!!)

Wow, I'd always thought James played Seeker, not so much because of him having the Snitch but because Harry was and I thought it was something he had got from James!

I also thought the same until Kingwidgit told me. :lol:

This is small, but I was wondering, in Book 5, chapter 14, pg 289 it says ' the sky was a clear, exhilarating blue and he [Harry] had not been on his Firebolt for a week' .When was he on it in the first place? If I have my dates right, he wasn't in school a week ago, and he couldn't have flown it at Grimmuald Place. Am I missing something or is this just a typo?

Hmm I hadn't read it for awhile. How much time passed between then and when he flew it from the Dursley's to Grimmald Place?

well...

he was at the dursley's for about a month - a month and a half I think and that means he would have spent like three weeks at Grimmauld Place cause the hearing was on the 12th of august. and then they went back to school on september 1st and then a week after that...they went to quiddich...

so i have come to the conclusion that its a mistake

The hearing was on 12th August, the term starts on 1 September.
Harry`s first fly at Hogwarts in the fifth year were on the first Saturday, therefore you are right, it is a mistake. Maybe it should say for weeks or a month.

I'm looking for a HPquote and have no idea where to start looking, so I'm taking the easy way out and asking whether someone else knows. :D

I know that at some point, when Harry gets some bad news or something awful happens, he realizes that all the bad stuff really happens because of Voldemort. In the end, it's all because of Voldemort. And so Harry directs his anger towards him. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? It might be in a conversation with Dumbledore, but not necessarily at the end of a book. I haven't got a clue about where to look... I'm sorry if this is very unclear!

Could you maybe be a bit more specific? And would this maybe be in 'The Dream' in GoF?

Somewhere deep in my mind I remember reading something like that. I think it must be in the sixth book because Harry didn`t know before the end of book 5 that Voldemort is after him. Maybe this quote is from a lesson with Dumbledore.

Try the last few pages of the 'Horcruxes' chapter in HBP- that has A bit more talk about the prophecy, and also:
It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head hel high
Maybe that's not what you want...:shrug:
ETA: In the UK hardback thats pages 476-479 :).

:grumble: I think I know what you mean, but didn't find it. I think it's when Hermione tells Ron and Harry about someone elses relative was dying and Harry makes a decision to do something... but then I'm lost again. Maybe I will remember later. :D

Oh yeah,that's when they see two sisters, and I think Harry decides something about Slughorn's memory. I'll look it up :).

Oh yeah,that's when they see two sisters, and I think Harry decides something about Slughorn's memory. I'll look it up :).Yes - great, karatekid! :clap: It's Hermione, not Harry. She tells Harry to take care of Slughorn's memory after the the trio got Hagrid's letter about Aragog's death in the Great Hall. They are speaking about the little boy, who died after getting attacked by Fenrir Greyback. Hermione says it's all Voldemort's fault and that Harry has to get Slghorn's memory now.



EDIT: HBP, brit. ed., p. 443.

Yeah, that's it :).:
Hermione looked at him bleakly.
' Harry, you've got to get that memory,' she said. 'It's all about stopping Voldemort, isn't it? These dreadful things that are happening are all down to him ...'
From p443, UK hardback.

We're addicted. :rotfl:

"Harry, you've got to get that memory," she said. "It's all about stopping Voldemort, isn't it? These dreadful things that are happening are all down to him..."

Actually, that's not the quote I was after... :blush:
I'm pretty sure it's something in one of the first three or four books. I know it's Harry who says it, or thinks it. I really should just start rereading the entire stack of books, shouldn't I? :D

Actually, that's not the quote I was after... :blush::rotfl:

Maybe you have the GoF movie in mind? There is something like this at the end of the movie. (But it's also Hermione there me thinks).

But to be honest I still think there are more than on of these scenes, too. Harry has more than one moment where he realizes how many freindships, trust and families Voldemort has destroyed. Maybe one of us will get it later.

So long... any more little unanswered questions anyone?

:lol: kingwidgit, I already gave that :p. And gertie, to a worrying level :rolleyes:.

Could you describe the quote again,crookshanksfan?

ETA: I had a question, what subject did Hermione drop? I know she dropped one at the end of PoA so she could stop using the time turner...

I have this mental picture of Harry saying "It's all Voldemort's fault" through clenched teeth - if that is correct, I think it's from one of the first two movies, actually. I'm starting to wonder whether this is all in my head! :lol:

ETA: I had a question, what subject did Hermione drop? I know she dropped one at the end of PoA so she could stop using the time turner...

Hermione dropped Muggle Studies as well as Divination.

I have this mental picture of Harry saying "It's all Voldemort's fault" through clenched teeth - if that is correct, I think it's from one of the first two movies, actually. I'm starting to wonder whether this is all in my head! :lol:

:lol: Get reading. and watching :evil:. Can't think of it...

Hermione dropped Muggle Studies as well as Divination.
Oh yeah, thanks :).

I FOUND IT! I don't know if you care about where and what it is (:lol:), but my suggestion that it might be from one of the first two films was totally wrong...:blush: Anyway, I'll give it to you, whether you are interested or not. It's Harry's thoughts after he's seen the various trials in the pensieve in GoF. Thinking about the trial when those who tortured the Longbottoms where convicted, Harry's mind wanders:

As Harry took off his glasses and climbed into his four-poster, he imagined how it must feel to have parents still living, but unable to recognise you. He often got sympathy from strangers for being an orphan, but as he listened to Neville's snores, he thought that Neville deserved it more than he did. Lying in the darkness, Harry felt a rush of anger and hate towards the people who had tortured Mr and Mrs Longbottom ... he remembered the jeers of the crowd as Crouch's son and his companions had been dragged from the court by the Dementors ... he understood how they had felt ... then he remembered the milk-white face of the screaming boy, and realised with a jolt that he had died a year later ...
It was Voldemort, Harry thought, staring up at the canopy of his bed in the darkness, it all came back to Voldemort ... he was the one who had torn these families apart, who had ruined all these lives ...
(GoF, Br. paperback, pp. 527-528)

Oh yeah, now I remember that! :lol:

why didnt molly and arthur join the old Order??? It seems like they trust dumbledore the most and the old Order needed member. They were out numbered by the death eater 20 to 1. Why didnt molly and arthur joined the old Order?

why didnt molly and arthur join the old Order??? It seems like they trust dumbledore the most and the old Order needed member. They were out numbered by the death eater 20 to 1. Why didnt molly and arthur joined the old Order?
:shrug: I think at the time they had young kids ( I might be wrong ;)), so they might not even have known Dumbledore well.

:shrug: I think at the time they had young kids ( I might be wrong ;)), so they might not even have known Dumbledore well.

Yes I think that's right. They probably wouldn't have wanted to risk their kid's safety or to risk them loosing their parents

:shrug: I think at the time they had young kids ( I might be wrong ;)), so they might not even have known Dumbledore well.

Yes I think that's right. They probably wouldn't have wanted to risk their kid's safety or to risk them loosing their parents

This can`t be the only reason. We know other members with equal small children, the Longbottom`s and the Potter`s. Those two couples had even time to fight against Voldemort himself three times, wether without Harry and Neville or with their sons is unknown. But the Potters are only around 21, so we can assume that at least one fight was while the had Harry because their isn`t much time after they left school. And Molly`s brothers Gideon and Fabian were members of the first order, therefore the Weasleys should knew about the order.

Are we 100% certain that Molly and/or Arthur weren't in the original Order? I know they weren't in the picture, but maybe one of the kids was sick the day the photo was taken or something.

This can`t be the only reason. We know other members with equal small children, the Longbottom`s and the Potter`s. Those last had even time to fight against Voldemort himself three times, wether for Harry or with him is unknown.

I disagree. The potter's and the longbottom's didn't have children before they joined the order. They were already in the order when they had Harry and Neville so I don't think they would have wanted to back-off whereas the weasley's already had some kids and therefore decided against.Moreover I think that they didn't join because they wanted to remain as neutral as possible, I mean they were convinced that they(order) were a loosing side, therefore they decided that it would be best not to disclose their position.

Are we 100% certain that Molly and/or Arthur weren't in the original Order? I know they weren't in the picture, but maybe one of the kids was sick the day the photo was taken or something.

This is a possibility, but they never mentioned anything about the first order. And I think the didn`t knew the Potter`s well and I have the impression that the order members knew each other, different from the Death Eaters.

I disagree. The potter's and the longbottom's didn't have children before they joined the order. They were already in the order when they had Harry and Neville so I don't think they would have wanted to back-off whereas the weasley's already had some kids and therefore decided against.Moreover I think that they didn't join because they wanted to remain as neutral as possible, I mean they were convinced that they(order) were a loosing side, therefore they decided that it would be best not to disclose their position.

No, I don`t think so. In my opinion we haven`t any canon for the time the Potter`s joined the order. Harry was 15 month when his parents fought their fourth fight against Voldemort. I can`t see a reason why Voldemort would give them time to recover after their last battle. And they hit only a week before Wormtail betrayed them so this isn`t a reason why the fight`s could take long breaks.

This is a possibility, but they never mentioned anything about the first order. And I think the didn`t knew the Potter`s well and I have the impression that the order members knew each other, different from the Death Eaters.


Not only that, had the Weasley's missed the photo shoot then Harry would have asked why they weren't there and the reason would have come out. Moreover Moody says that it is the Picture of original order of the Phoenix members and if somebody was missing then he would have clarified it. But that is not the case so we can assume that they weren't.

Am I the only one that find it odd that Molly`s brothers where in the first order and Molly shouldn`t. I think she weren`t, but I`m interested in the reason. Children and family can`t be the only reason because as Harry said once, if Voldemort wins maybe there isn`t a family anymore you can care about.

Well,we know the Potters and Longbottoms were in the Order before they had children; the prophecy said 'will be born...to those who have thrice defied the Dark Lord' ( or similar...). I think Molly had several young children, and while she may have supported her brothers, she felt it better to cause least risk to her children.

No, I don`t think so. In my opinion we haven`t any canon for the time the Potter`s joined the order. Harry was 15 month when his parents fought their fourth fight against Voldemort. I can`t see a reason why Voldemort would give them time to recover after their last battle. And they hit only a week before Wormtail betrayed them so this isn`t a reason why the fight`s could take long breaks.No :no:
The prophesy says : ‘ born to those who have thrice defied him’ not born to those who will thrice defy him. The Potters and the Longbottoms were fighting Voldemort before the prophecy was made. But it’s possible they weren’t in the Order then, maybe the Order was founded only after the prophecy was made to help and protect the Chosen one. Anyway the Potters and the Longbottoms are as we know special cases because of the prophecy but I can’t recall other Order members with children.
Arthur and Molly on the other hand had three, later six, little children they had to care for in the first place and they aren’t rich Young Arthur was surly busy earning the money and Molly was pregnant, doing the housework and looking after the children (I imagine it was hard work to look after baby Fred and George :lol: ).
Another reason why they didn’t join may have been that they weren’t asked to. They have no special training or (as far as I know) talents in fighting the Dark Arts and young Arthur hadn’t a key position at the ministry. It’s not as though everybody, who was against Voldemort was member of the Order of the Phoenix, if Arthur had useful information he would have passed given it to one of his brothers in law.
In the second war the situation has changed. Arthur is established at the ministry, maybe not at the highest level but he has his contacts and insider knowledge. Dumbledore knew he’d need people inside the ministry to guard the prophecy so Arthur was in a position to be useful this time. The older children are independent and the younger two (or four) aren’ that dependent on their parents anymore either, they are at Hogwarts most of the time, so Molly has plenty of time to do ‘mysterious work for the Order’ as well.
Most important: the Weasleys have more or less adopted Harry so they are in the middle of the peril, Order members or not. And if I’m right and the Order was founded to assist/ protect/ help Harry, they are in on it.

Are we 100% certain that Molly and/or Arthur weren't in the original Order? I know they weren't in the picture, but maybe one of the kids was sick the day the photo was taken or something.

100% sure molly wasnt in the old order, because in Oopt when molly see her boggart and cries Lupin tries to cheer up her saying something like "you werent in the old order you wouldnt know we were outnumbered 20 to 1" well this isnt the exact quotes but molly wasnt in the old order and since molly wasnt in it i suppose arthur wasnt in it also.

100% sure molly wasnt in the old order, because in Oopt when molly see her boggart and cries Lupin tries to cheer up her saying something like "you werent in the old order you wouldnt know we were outnumbered 20 to 1" well this isnt the exact quotes but molly wasnt in the old order and since molly wasnt in it i suppose arthur wasnt in it also.
That is correct. Her brothers Fabian and Gideon Prewett were both in the Order, and were killed by Death Eaters, but Molly and Arthur are new.

Here is a new question. I'm not sure if this has ever been discussed, so I'm sorry if it has or if it needs to be moved. Anyways, In HBP on page 552 of the hard copy, American version, it says that "Dumbledore says he's put extra protection in the school, but if Snape's involved, he'll know what Dumbledore's protection is, and how to avoid it..." Does anyone know what the extra protection was? And how would Snape know of the extra protection? Not a big deal or anything...just something more on my mind.

Here is a new question. I'm not sure if this has ever been discussed, so I'm sorry if it has or if it needs to be moved. Anyways, In HBP on page 552 of the hard copy, American version, it says that "Dumbledore says he's put extra protection in the school, but if Snape's involved, he'll know what Dumbledore's protection is, and how to avoid it..." Does anyone know what the extra protection was? And how would Snape know of the extra protection? Not a big deal or anything...just something more on my mind.

Well, we know that Dumbledore re-enchanted the Hogwarts barriers. He probably did loads of other stuff to the school now that Voldemorts in the open. Snape would know because if a member of the Order is at Hogwarts then they would oubviously need to know how to break the enchantments in case of an emergency.

Snape would know because if a member of the Order is at Hogwarts then they would oubviously need to know how to break the enchantments in case of an emergency.

Not necessarily because only Dumbledore could lift the anti-apparation charm and it was not Minerva. Moreover I don't see why they would need to know about it seeing that it would be risking the security of the students. ;)

Snape got past the enchantments on September 1st, he was abel to let Harry into the Hogwarts grounds, of course Harry did not enter secretly and security was hightened afterwarts.

Annother part of Dumbledore's extra protection was that he had members of the Order patroling the school. Snape was not among them, but I agree with Harry, that he probably knew about them.

In HBP on page 552 of the hard copy, American version, it says that "Dumbledore says he's put extra protection in the school, but if Snape's involved, he'll know what Dumbledore's protection is, and how to avoid it..." Does anyone know what the extra protection was? And how would Snape know of the extra protection? Not a big deal or anything...just something more on my mind.

In previous books cars and brooms have been able to fly over the walls of the school grounds, but in HBP DD had to lift the enchantments, and Harry felt the broomstick juddering as it flew over the wall. He comments (thinks) that DD must be lifting the enchantments.

Snape and all members of staff would have known what the enchantments were, not necessarily how to lift them, but I'm guessing that most would have had some idea, I mean DD trusted them completely. Just because we didn't see anyone else lifting them doesn't mean they can't.

And of course there were the extra Order members walking the corridors and stationed in Hogsmeade.

I had a question regarding Memory extraction. If a person extracts a memory from his mind so as to study it in the pensive then does he still have the memory in his brain. I mean is it that he has no recollection of the events if he extracts a memory or is it that a copy of the memory is obtained whilst extracting it?

I had a question regarding Memory extraction. If a person extracts a memory from his mind so as to study it in the pensive then does he still have the memory in his brain. I mean is it that he has no recollection of the events if he extracts a memory or is it that a copy of the memory is obtained whilst extracting it?I wondered about that, too. How I understand it it's the original memory, no copy. Dumbledore said it would help to keep his mind clear the first time he explained the pensieve to Harry. Scary, somehow.

How I understand it it's the original memory, no copy.

Well then How come Slughorn have the entire memory. I mean he did edit some parts but then he had given quite some part of it that was not changed, yet we find that he gives the entire memory to Harry. How do you explain that one. :eyebrows:

:shrug: I thought it was a form of the memory, the form that was lurking around, but there's still the actual memory in a kind of memory vault. Did that make sense? It just seems creepy otherwise...

I thought it was a form of the memory,

Form of memory, as in. Are you trying to suggest that it (the extracted memory) is an imprint of the memory. :huh:

Well then How come Slughorn have the entire memory. I mean he did edit some parts but then he had given quite some part of it that was not changed, yet we find that he gives the entire memory to Harry. How do you explain that one. :eyebrows:Hehe...I expected you having something like that in mind. Actually I can't. On the one hand Dumbledore explains it as a clearing of mind on the other you're true: if anyone, who shares such a memory would give it away completely, it would be odd.

I had a question regarding Memory extraction. If a person extracts a memory from his mind so as to study it in the pensive then does he still have the memory in his brain. I mean is it that he has no recollection of the events if he extracts a memory or is it that a copy of the memory is obtained whilst extracting it?

Perhaps extracting a memory doesn't necessarily remove it completely. I think it either temporarily removes it but the memory grows back in time. Or it makes a copy but the old memory is suppressed or compacted a bit like a Zip file on a computer. :lol:

Well imagine if it is the entire memory with no traces left in your brain...surely after you'd put it in the pensieve you wouldn't remember which memory it was when you came to look at it again? You'd have removed all traces of it so wouldn't remember it at all, so you'd have all these random thoughts floating around in the pensieve because you'd forgotten about them as soon as they left your head :lol:

On the one hand Dumbledore explains it as a clearing of mind
That is what confused me. I mean we have both Dumbledore and Snape placing the memory back after the purpose is fulfilled. Moreover if the Memory isn't extracted entirely then why did Snape bother to do it in Ootp so that Harry didn't get a preview of his worst memories. But then we have Slughorn contradicting it. I am confused. http://oldtoolsforsale.com/smiley5/sick29.gif

Or it makes a copy but the old memory is suppressed or compacted a bit like a Zip file on a computer.

:rotfl: you make human brain sound like a Hard disk.

I think that there are two 'levels' the first is nigh on impossible to access, all memories stay there. Then there's a higher level, nearer to the conciousness where imprints of these meories float around. Taking one for the Pensieve gets rid of the imprint. Maybe? :lol:

I think that there are two 'levels' the first is nigh on impossible to access, all memories stay there. Then there's a higher level, nearer to the conciousness where imprints of these meories float around. Taking one for the Pensieve gets rid of the imprint. Maybe?

So you suggesting that when one tried to extract a memory the imprint of the Memory gets lost and the person has to re-insert the memory so as to get the imprint of the memory back. But if that is the case then how do you explain the Slughorn incident. :huh:

So you suggesting that when one tried to extract a memory the imprint of the Memory gets lost and the person has to re-insert the memory so as to get the imprint of the memory back. But if that is the case then how do you explain the Slughorn incident. :huh:

Not quite. What I'm trying to say is that taking the memory out take the imprint, so it's not in your current thoughts, but its still there if you try to reach it.

I've read the theory that to put a memory into the pensive is ‘to put it from your mind’, it removes it from the forefront of your mind, but it’s still in the long term memory. It convinced me because we know Slughorn still had the memory after he gave it to Dumbledore (Harry did not only get those parts he had tampered with but also those that had been accurate in the first place) also, when Harry dived into the pensive in GoF he asked Dumbledore about the memories he'd seen and Dumbledore did remember. And I don’t think Dumbledore would have risked the only remaining record of the prophecy by separating it from him, it would have been safer to tell Harry the content of the prophecy.
To use the computer comparison: If you try to work on a great number of files at once, (e.g. to compare a lot of different statistics and texts and write down your conclusions) it’s easier to print them and spread them out on your desk where you can overview them, group them and rearrange them so your monitor (=mind) is free for your conclusions, than to try doing it all in the limited space of a monitor. Only that pensive (print) removes the memories from the mind (monitor) , but it does not delete it from the long term memory (hard disk).
Dumbledore used the pensive that way, to sort his mind. If Harry was right Snape used it to remove those memories he didn’t want Harry to see in case Harry got an accidental glimpse of the fore front of Snape’s mind (the monitor), he would not be concerned that Harry might dive deep into his mind and find the safely hidden stored files.

Interesting was that Snape seemed incapable of shutting down the unwanted memories by controlling his mind, which he is a known expert of; that’s why I doubt he tried to hide them as Harry thought. IMO he put them in the pensive to give Harry access he removed them at the beginning of each lesson in front of Harry (he could have finished that before Harry arrived in his office and Harry wouldn’t know) He didn’t lock the pensive away but left it in view for nosy Harry He left Harry alone with it in his office twice (first time when Trelawney was sacked)
That seems a very stupid behaviour for someone who is good enough at hiding secrets to fool Dumbledore or Voldemort or both.

Did Lucius Malfoy, Snape and the Marauders know each other at Hogwarts? If Snape is around 36 and Malfoy is 41 in OOtP, they should have overlapped for a couple of years. I assume Lucius would have been in Slytherin with Snape.

Also, is there any evidence that besides Tom Riddle and Snape, there were any other half-bloods or even Muggle-borns sorted into Slytherin?

Did Lucius Malfoy, Snape and the Marauders know each other at Hogwarts? If Snape is around 36 and Malfoy is 41 in OOtP, they should have overlapped for a couple of years. I assume Lucius would have been in Slytherin with Snape.

Also, is there any evidence that besides Tom Riddle and Snape, there were any other half-bloods or even Muggle-borns sorted into Slytherin?

In the Leaky Cauldron and Mugglenet Interview part 3 (http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/list2005.html) she talked about the children of the Death Eaters.

The Death Eater children are a small fraction of the total Slytherin population. In fact, some Death Eater children belong to other houses.


If the Death Eater children are a small fraction of the Slytherin population there should be more half-bloods in Slytherin. We know more half-bloods than Voldemort and Snape from other houses, like Lupin, Tonks, Dean. In the "Harry Potter and Me" interview JKR showed a picture from all students of Harry`s year. It contains symbols of the blood status. I`m sure there were a half-blood in Slytherin in Harry`s year, but I can`t find a picture at the moment.

Edit: Here (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/sources/source_hpm.html) you can find the picture. Tracey Davis or Daphne Greengrass (there named as Queenie Greengrass) should be a half-blood because their symbols are different from other Slytherins.

I've read the theory that to put a memory into the pensive is ‘to put it from your mind’, it removes it from the forefront of your mind, but it’s still in the long term memory. It convinced me because we know Slughorn still had the memory after he gave it to Dumbledore (Harry did not only get those parts he had tampered with but also those that had been accurate in the first place) also, when Harry dived into the pensive in GoF he asked Dumbledore about the memories he'd seen and Dumbledore did remember. And I don’t think Dumbledore would have risked the only remaining record of the prophecy by separating it from him, it would have been safer to tell Harry the content of the prophecy.
To use the computer comparison: If you try to work on a great number of files at once, (e.g. to compare a lot of different statistics and texts and write down your conclusions) it’s easier to print them and spread them out on your desk where you can overview them, group them and rearrange them so your monitor (=mind) is free for your conclusions, than to try doing it all in the limited space of a monitor. Only that pensive (print) removes the memories from the mind (monitor) , but it does not delete it from the long term memory (hard disk).
Dumbledore used the pensive that way, to sort his mind. If Harry was right Snape used it to remove those memories he didn’t want Harry to see in case Harry got an accidental glimpse of the fore front of Snape’s mind (the monitor), he would not be concerned that Harry might dive deep into his mind and find the safely hidden stored files.

Interesting was that Snape seemed incapable of shutting down the unwanted memories by controlling his mind, which he is a known expert of; that’s why I doubt he tried to hide them as Harry thought. IMO he put them in the pensive to give Harry access

1. he removed them at the beginning of each lesson in front of Harry (he could have finished that before Harry arrived in his office and Harry wouldn’t know)
2. He didn’t lock the pensive away but left it in view for nosy Harry
3. He left Harry alone with it in his office twice (first time when Trelawney was sacked)

That seems a very stupid behaviour for someone who is good enough at hiding secrets to fool Dumbledore or Voldemort or both.


I will buy that one. A very good theory. :clap:

If Harry was right Snape used it to remove those memories he didn’t want Harry to see in case Harry got an accidental glimpse of the fore front of Snape’s mind (the monitor), he would not be concerned that Harry might dive deep into his mind and find the safely hidden stored files.

Interesting was that Snape seemed incapable of shutting down the unwanted memories by controlling his mind, which he is a known expert of; that’s why I doubt he tried to hide them as Harry thought. IMO he put them in the pensive to give Harry access he removed them at the beginning of each lesson in front of Harry (he could have finished that before Harry arrived in his office and Harry wouldn’t know) He didn’t lock the pensive away but left it in view for nosy Harry He left Harry alone with it in his office twice (first time when Trelawney was sacked)
That seems a very stupid behaviour for someone who is good enough at hiding secrets to fool Dumbledore or Voldemort or both.

You make a lot of interesting points here. I'd like to add a couple of comments, though. They might belong in a separate thread, but I'll write them here nonetheless.

If Snape wanted Harry to see the memory from the exam day, why is that? Did Snape want an excuse to stop the occlumency lessons? Did he just want to show Harry how his father was at Harry's own age? Or did he want Harry to learn something about Snape himself? If we assume Snape expected Harry to take a look at the memories sooner or later, I can't help speculating why...

Secondly, the memories Harry managed to break into I really don't think were meant for him to see. Which means they weren't left at the forefront of Snape's mind on purpose (I assume Harry didn't penetrate any deeper into Snape's mind than just the 'front part'). So perhaps these are memories Snape hates to think of, but they still remain on his mind, whether he likes it or not. He tries to deny how much these memories still affect him, so he didn't think those were memories it was necessary to remove. He wants them to be at the back of his mind, so that's what he thought they were...

On the other hand, if Snape really expected Harry to take a look in the pensieve, of course he wouldn't store memories in there that Harry wasn't meant to see. Thus he may have kept the memories Harry broke into on purpose - because he thought his own mind was more safe than the pensieve. A dangerous game, if you ask me.

Slightly too many if's and may's here... I'm starting to confuse myself! :lol:

I had a question regarding Memory extraction. If a person extracts a memory from his mind so as to study it in the pensive then does he still have the memory in his brain. I mean is it that he has no recollection of the events if he extracts a memory or is it that a copy of the memory is obtained whilst extracting it?

If you think about it, we have a concious and a subconcious. Sometimes things come to the front of our brain and we can't stop thinking about them, or they're active at that point in time.

I think it's the active memory that gets removed but the deeply buried on stays in your brain, but because it is not at the front of your brain it is far more difficult to access.

If, for example Harry had removed a thought using a pensieve and Voldemort came along, he could probably still access the thought because he is a skilled legilimens and occlumens so very few thoughts are hidden. However if Hermione tried to look into Harry's thoughts (should she become able to perform legilimency), because she isn't as powerful as Voldemort she probably would not be able to access the deeply buried thoughts.

The pensieve is a tool used to study thoughts at one's leisure but the thought does remain in one's head - otherwise you would completely forget it existed.

Could we perhaps move the pensieve discussion over here?
The Nature of the Pensieve (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=77190)

It doesn't look very much like a little question and it's answer anymore.

I was wondering; if Harry looked in the Mirror of Erised when he was about to face Voldemort, would it show him how to destroy him? Also, would it tell him how to find and destroy the Horcruxes if he could find it?

The mirror works for Harry as the compass for Jack Sparrow. He shows his hearts desire. If it his his deepest desire to find a horcrux the mirror should give a hint. But the proplem was clear in Pirates of the Caribean: if an other wish is deeper, the mirror wouldn`t give a hint. Therefore I´m not sure wether Harry could use the mirror for the horcrux hunt if his deepest desire is to finish of Voldemort. But I think the mirror will be helpful for the last battle.

I don't think the mirror would show Harry how to finish Voldemort. It didn't show Quirrel how to get to the stone either. IMO it might show Harry a dead Voldemort and everyone he cares for alive and unhurt, that is 'his hearts desire' , but not the way to get there.

:agree: I was under the impression that the stone only appeared bacause of a special bit of magic Dumbledore added...

I was under the impression that the stone only appeared because of a special bit of magic Dumbledore added...

That is true, because when Dumbledore explains it to Harry then he mentions that only the person who wanted the stone not for use but for safe-keeping could get it, whereas Quirrelmort wanted it for a personal use and hence could not obtain it. ;)

Maybe I mix to much Pirates in it. But didn`t Dumbledore ad his special bit of magic only for the stone, did he? I hadn`t the impression that he changed the whole work of the mirror. Therefore I think it isn`t impossible for Harry to use the mirror for his battle.

I was under the impression that the stone only appeared bacause of a special bit of magic Dumbledore added...
"You are protected, in short, by your ability to love!" said Dumbledore loudly. "The only protection that can possibly work against the lure of power like Voldemort's! In spite of all the temptation you have endured, all the suffering, you remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of eleven, when you stared into a mirror that reflected your heart's desire, and it showed you only the way to thwart Lord Voldemort, not immortality or riches. Harry, have you any idea how few wizards could have seen what you saw in that mirror? Voldemort should have known then what he was dealing with, but he did not!Harry's heart's desire was to find the stone and keep it safe from Voldemort. Dumbledore didn't need to add any special magic - the mirror's own magic worked perfectly! Voldemort could never have found the stone if Harry wasn't there!

:shrug: I don't get that; the mirror show's the heart's desire, how does it make it reality??

how does it make it reality??

Well it is a magical mirror, so maybe it can do what it intends to. ;)

Harry's heart's desire was to find the stone and keep it safe from Voldemort. Dumbledore didn't need to add any special magic - the mirror's own magic worked perfectly! Voldemort could never have found the stone if Harry wasn't there!
But if Dumbledore didn't do anything special to it, then Voldemort or Quirrell would have found the stone because they also desired it. I believe Dumbledore's magic was to make its whereabouts known only to someone who did not intend to use it. Harry wanted to keep the stone from Voldemort, but did not want to use it whereas Voldemort and Quirrell wanted to use the stone.

But if Dumbledore didn't do anything special to it, then Voldemort or Quirrell would have found the stone because they also desired it. I believe Dumbledore's magic was to make its whereabouts known only to someone who did not intend to use it. Harry wanted to keep the stone from Voldemort, but did not want to use it whereas Voldemort and Quirrell wanted to use the stone
"How did I get the Stone out of the Mirror?"

"Ah, now, I'm glad you asked me that. It was one of my more brilliant ideas, and between you and me, that's saying something. You see, only one who wanted to find the Stone - find it but not use it - would be able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves makind gold or drinking the Elixir of Life.

I guess Dumbledore, when he concealed the Stone in the Mirror, made it so that if the Stone became visible in the glass it would be given to the person who saw it, but Harry seeing it in the first place was the Mirror's own magic.

Does that mean that if Harry really wanted to destroy a Horcrux for the good of the world that it would appear for him then?
I'm not sure if that would happen, but it would be good for Harry if it did, another problem is where the mirror is now, and I think there's already a thread on that somehwere.

Does that mean that if Harry really wanted to destroy a Horcrux for the good of the world that it would appear for him then?
Only if Dumbledore had hidden it there!

Of course, if Voldemort used a similar technique to hide a Horcrux ... Maybe that's why he was so desperate to get the teaching job at Hogwarts? But I don't see that Voldemort had access to the Mirror after he made the later Horcruxes, so we'd have to look for another magical object with similar properties ...



I do think that the Mirror could be used to show Harry where the Horcruxes were hidden, (not to actually get them, but to show their location) but that would be a bit too easy, so I don't think we are going there.

"How did I get the Stone out of the Mirror?"

"Ah, now, I'm glad you asked me that. It was one of my more brilliant ideas, and between you and me, that's saying something. You see, only one who wanted to find the Stone - find it but not use it - would be able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves makind gold or drinking the Elixir of Life.

I guess Dumbledore, when he concealed the Stone in the Mirror, made it so that if the Stone became visible in the glass it would be given to the person who saw it, but Harry seeing it in the first place was the Mirror's own magic.

That's what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. I know Harry saw the stone with the mirror's magic, but I didn't think it appeared selectively without Dumbledore's help:tu:.

The magic of the mirror detects and shows your heart’s deepest desire, but not the way to get what you want. It didn’t show Harry how to get closer to his parents (it took him another two years to ‘find his father in him’ as Dumbledore put it), nor did it show Ron how to become Quidditch captain and Head Boy, so it wouldn’t show Harry how to destroy Voldemort or where to find a Horcrux.
As Annett said it was Dumbledore who set up the stone thing. He used the ability of the mirror to detect a person’s heart’s true desire to guard the stone. The result of this character check was the ‘key’ to pass Dumbledore’s protection: Only one who’s heart’s desire was to find the stone, find it but not use it, maybe only one, who wanted to find it to thwart Lord Voldemort, would be able to get it.

I can't see how or why Voldemort would have used the mirror to hide a Horcrux; and why Dumbledore wouldn't have sensed traces of Voldemort’s magic, there was no hint in PS/SS that Voldemort even knew the mirror.
But maybe Voldemort used his kind of character test to guide the locket. The potion IMO drove anyone with a conscience mad with feelings of guilt, it wouldn’t do any harm to Voldemort, who is unscrupulous. Just a theory ;)

The magic of the mirror detects and shows your heart’s deepest desire, but not the way to get what you want. It didn’t show Harry how to get closer to his parents (it took him another two years to ‘find his father in him’ as Dumbledore put it), nor did it show Ron how to become Quidditch captain and Head Boy, so it wouldn’t show Harry how to destroy Voldemort or where to find a Horcrux.But if Harry's deepest desire is to find the very last Horcrux, and he can stand in front of the Mirror, don't you think he would see where it is and himself finding it? It wouldn't magically appear in his pocket, but what Harry saw might be helpful to him. Then again, Dumbledore warned him not to count on what he saw in the Mirror, so maybe it wouldn't help him anyway.

But if Harry's deepest desire is to find the very last Horcrux, and he can stand in front of the Mirror, don't you think he would see where it is and himself finding it? .No (big suprise:))
Quirrel didn’t see himself finding the stone, did he?
I think Harry’s desire is to finish Voldemort so he would see Voldemort finished, I don’t think one can change ones heart’s desire at will, so he can’t trick the mirror into showing him the way, that's why it was such a god guard; foolproof!
Should Harry’s desire be to find the Horcrux, just find it not destroy it !!! he might see himself holding it, but that wouldn’t show him where it is or how it is protected (e.g. he might have seen himself in a greenish light holding the locket.)
Don’t you think Dumbledore would have used the mirror to track down the Horcruxes had it been that simple?

Quirrel didn’t see himself finding the stone, did he?
I think Dumbledore's words, quoted in my post above answer that question. It's enough that Harry did see it, because all he wanted was to find it, not use it.I think Harry’s desire is to finish Voldemort so he would see Voldemort finished, I don’t think one can change ones heart’s desire at will, so he can’t trick the mirror into showing him the way, that's why it was such a god guard; foolproof!
Should Harry’s desire be to find the Horcrux, just find it not destroy it !!! he might see himself holding it, but that wouldn’t show him where it is or how it is protected (e.g. he might have seen himself in a greenish light holding the locket.)
Don’t you think Dumbledore would have used the mirror to track down the Horcruxes had it been that simple?

I don't think the Mirror is going to be used in this way, because we've already had that storyline, but I do think that it would be theoretically possible, if Harry looked into it at a time when he was desperate to find the last Horcrux. I don't think he can change his heart's desire at will, but he could exploit it by looking in the Mirror at the right moment. And if he had the Horcrux but didn't know how to destroy it, perhaps the Mirror could show him how to do that. But, as I said, I don't think we'll be going there.

Than we can agree it's possible but quiet unlikely:lol:

hi

ummmmm why did dumbledore put the ring on in the first place? in the cave he could tell that there was magic around places without even touching it he would have known sumthing was wrong bout that ring.. maybe he had a blonde moment and after he put it on thought "oh bugger"

Do we know Dumbledore put the ring on before his hand 'died'? If he didn't, why did he put in on afterwards? I've never understood why he wore the ring at all, but then I'm not a big fan of men wearing big rings...:D

ummmmm why did dumbledore put the ring on in the first place? in the cave he could tell that there was magic around places without even touching it he would have known sumthing was wrong bout that ring.. maybe he had a blonde moment and after he put it on thought "oh bugger

Do we have any proof that Dumbledore injured his hand because he destroyed the Horcrux whilst wearing the ring. We don't know how he injured his hand so it would not be correct that he wore the ring and then destroyed the Horcrux. Although it can be a good explanation as to how his hand got injured. ;)

I always presumed that Dumbledore's hand effectively died while he was destroying the horcrux. I doubt the damage was done to the hand by wearing the ring, Dumbledore's not that thick.

Dumbledore's not that thick.

:rotfl: I agree. Moreover he had the idea that what was the supposed Horcrux so it wouldn't have happened that Dumbledore got fascinated by this Big Black ring and after wearing it realized that it was no ordinary ring. Moreover we know that he had been analyzing the various memories that he showed to Harry and therefore must have guessed the ring to be a Horcrux. ;)

Dumbledore probably wore the ring so that Slughorn could notice it. We never saw him wear it again after that night.

Dumbledore probably wore the ring so that Slughorn could notice it.

And why will he do that? :huh: Do you suspect that Dumbledore knew that Slughorn was familiar with the Ring. I mean did Dumbledore want to remind about the Horcrux memory and his relationship with Tom Marvolo Riddle. :huh:

And why will he do that? Do you suspect that Dumbledore knew that Slughorn was familiar with the Ring. I mean did Dumbledore want to remind about the Horcrux memory and his relationship with Tom Marvolo Riddle.

I can't think of any other reason for Dumbledore to wear the ring that night. And it would remind Slughorn of the very good reason Voldemort has for wanting him dead!

I agree with anabel , he wore it mainly for Slughorn! But I see three possible reasons why: To remind Slughorn how much damage he's done and that he owes a moral dept to the 'good side' To remind Slughorn of the very good reason Voldemort has for wanting him dead! To prove himself to Slughorn.
The rumour that Dumbledore had sustained a serious injury had already reached Slughorn. Slughorn suggests it might be time for Dumbledore to retire, that’s about the same conclusion Snape gives to Narcissa and Bellatrix : Dumbledore is too old and loosing his touch. But Dumbledore showed Slughorn what he got in return for his injury – the ring, and I’m sure Slughorn remembered it and understood what it had been. So the ring showed Slughorn that joining Dumbledore would not be joining the loosing side (not in character for Slughorn to risk it), but those who had just won an important battle, though the enemy didn’t know it yet .

Another reason Dumbledore wore the ring was, he wanted Harry to see it, as an introduction to their private lessons.

I understand the hand injury was caused by the terrible curse that protected the ring, like the green potion protected the locket. Dumbledore had to break it to get the ring.

By having a physical artifact so closely related to Tom Riddle, it also served to impress upon Slughorn that he would be teaching the only wizard to have defeated Voldemort. Having Harry and the ring in the same room made the stakes very clear.

I think Dumbledore got his injury either whilst breaking the enchantments around the ring or destroying the Horcrux. Dumbledore is a right hander, we saw him using his right hand with the memory bottles. Therefore I think his hand would injured because he was holding and using his wand.

Therefore I think his hand would injured because he was holding and using his wand.

Now you have said this that I realized that whilst holding the wand his arm got injured then how come the spell/curse didn't damage his wand? :huh:

Now you have said this that I realized that whilst holding the wand his arm got injured then how come the spell/curse didn't damage his wand?Maybe it did - do we know that he still uses the same wand? Not that I will make up a new Ollivander theory, tough. ;)