Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Lucius Malfoy (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/lucius.html) is the patriarch of one of the wealthiest and most influential pure-blood families. He is a known Death Eater and nobody would ever question his loyalties – or would they? Lucius is without question a Machiavellian master. Without having an actual profession he bribes, blackmails and threatens Ministry officials and the school governors and almost always gets what he wants. Despite his downfall and imprisonment, I have no doubt that we’ll see Lucius again. Let’s discuss and analyse this character.


Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?


Please remember that this is a discussion thread. All criticism should be constructive. You can say "Lucius made a mistake when he did such and such." but not "Lucius is a pompous git and deserved what he got". Posts that are considered bashing may be deleted by staff.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
Lucius appears to do what suits him at the time. The diary wasn't something he was supposed to be playing with but because Voldy wasn't around anymore he may have decided he could do what he wanted with it. His family is important to him because he values the idea that his son will, in lamest terms, inherit the family Death-Eatering business, but he is, in the end, doing what makes him happy.
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
That it would open the Chamber of Secrets. I highly doubt Voldy thought Lucius important enough to impart the knowledge that his soul was in there, nevermind the fact that it was part of a bigger realm of Horcruxes. All Lucius knew was that it was a highly incriminating piece of dark material and that he could open the veritable door for a havocing wreaking monster.
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
I don't think he's a deadbeat by any stretch of the imagination but I definately think there's a bit of a chip missing in the parent department. He wants his son to take after him and greatly values being able to provide his son with anything and everything dear Draco could ever want, but doesn't quite seem as parental as Narcissa appears to be. Perhaps that's the difference between being the father and being the mother but I think he thinks of Draco as more like an ally whereas Narcissa thinks of him as a child.
What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
It's been stated in the books, from his sneering smile to the cold look in his eyes when ANY Weasley is around, that he doesn't like Arthur. He couldn't care less about Molly I figure, perhaps due to the fact she's a woman and he doesn't work with her, but I think he sees Arthur as an annoyance; like a horse is annoyed by flies.
I imagine he's fairly friendly with Bellatrix, as he is with Snape, because he sees them as equals (or almost equals!). He figures they're on his side, they agree with his thinking and value his opinions.
The Death-Eaters are his pawns. As much as there doesn't appear to be much of a visible hierarchy in the DE's (ie a DE of a higher rank wears a different colour mask or something), he seems himself (and perhaps they see him) as someone not to mess with. He stoops to any sort of lows, through bribery and extortion, to accomplish his goals, inside and out of Voldy's inner circle.
Narcissa and he get alone well. There seems to be a bit of old world respect about their relationship, where he sees himself as the provider and master of his household and she's his property. I don't think she minds this sort of thinking for the most part but with that bit in HBP of her going to Snape, I sense desperation and a feeling that she doesn't quite know what to do when Lucius isn't around.
As for poor Harry Potter, Lucius hates him the way Snape hates him. There appears to be some very similar traits about the two of them.
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
For some reason I don't think he did. I think it was kind of like Harry trying to get the memory from Slughorn in HBP in the sense that they can tell themselves 'I'm trying as hard as I can' but they know in the back of their heads that they aren't/weren't exhausting all their options.
Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
He will escape from Azkaban. He played a fair role in CoS and I figure in Book 7 there's going to be more information into Lucius' psyche. For JKR to introduce Narcissa in a larger role in HBP than she has had the entire series, leads me to believe there will be more involvement with entire families of DE's in this Second War.
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son
Yes. Lucius spends a fair amount of time looking out for himself but he seems fairly possessive of his family. It seems to be that 'no one hurts my family but me' sort of issue (not that he's violent with them or anything...). I don't think it will be a big open confrontation with LV but I imagine there will be a certain amount of sabatoge on his part.

...I hope that made sense... ;)

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I think that for the most part these are not mutually exclusive and that he can be loyal to the both of them. I think that only book seven will tell us one way or the other where his loyalties really lie. I think that it may lie with his family.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

I think that he knew what the diary was though whether he found out when he took possession of the diary or later I am unsure.

I liken the diary to the marauders' map in one way. JKR has described how the map would have helped Fred and George find the way to work it, helped them to figure out the password. I think that in a similar way the diary could have done something similar with Lucius.

I am unsure as to whether Voldemort told him that it was a horcrux, or a part of his soul; I think he could have told him that it was a means of restoring him to power if he appeared defeated.

Even if he wasn't told, I think that the diary itself could have guided Lucius in order to ensure it was returned to Hogwart's.

At first glance the diary is merely an empty book - I can't believe that Lucius never once wrote in it to see what would happen and find out why it was so important.

If Lucius didn't know what it was and what it was capable of doing then why slip it in with Ginny's books at all?

Although it might seem to be a rather reckless thing to do with the book we have to remember that Voldemort had been defeated and if the book was "speaking" to Lucius and guiding him then the 16 year old Tom Riddle may well have encouraged Lucius to take the risk in order to restore him. Had it not been for Harry (who at the time was only 12 years old) defeating him (something that would at first glance seem unlikely) then Voldemort would have been restored and Lucius would have cemented his place in the ranks of Death Eaters.

If he didn't find out what it was capable of from Voldemort when he took possession of the book I think he could have found out from the book itself.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

I think that we have seen too little of him in this role to know one way or the other. He has clearly brought Draco up to have the same ideals and beliefs that he has. I think that he probably sees himself as a good father.

What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

Relationships:

Bellatrix Lestrange - I think that our view of his relationship with Bellatrix is tainted by the fact that the only time we see them together (that I can recall anyway) is at the Minstry. I don't feel that you can judge what sort of a relationship they had by seeing them in that instance. I suspect he doesn't have a great deal of patience with her though, she is the one he really has to stop from accidentally destroying the prophecy after all.

Arthur Weasley - I think that he has nothing but contempt for Arthur Weasley. He is a pureblood wizard but one who does not believe that that is the be all and end all of things. I think that their ideals are so different that Lucius could never have any respect for Arthur. I have seen nothing in their interactions to show anything else.

Draco Malfoy - I think that he loves his son and that he is proud of him, at least when he is succeeding in things. I think that he is probably quite strict with him and that Draco isn't as spoiled as might be believed for the (as far as I can see) only son of a wealthy family. He was probably proud that Draco became a Death Eater and I am very curious as to how he will react to the news that his son could not bring himself to murder Dumbledore - i.e. whether he will be disappointed in him or not.

Albus Dumbledore - I think that Lucius does respect Dumbledore, even though he doesn't agree with his views. I think that he perhaps feared him a little too. He is never openly contemptuous of Dumbledore to the same extent that he is Arthur Weasley.

Narcissa Malfoy - I like to think that they married for love but I again I don't think that we have seen enough of them reacting together to judge entirely what their situation is. The idea of an arranged marriage is one that I have heard mentioned in respect of them and for some reason that idea does not sit entirely right with me in respect of this couple.

Other Death Eaters - I see Lucius's role in the Death Eaters as one of the higher ranking members, at least before his incarceration in Azkaban. I see him as one of the leaders when they are out of the way of Voldemort himself. I think that he commands the respect of them as he is in a powerful position in the community as well as in the Death Eaters. If Voldemort should rise to power and Lucius be in favour there would no doubt be a lot of Death Eaters eager to use his connections to their own advantage.

I am unsure whether they all fear him, Bellatrix certainly didn't appear to when he was giving orders in the Ministry, but I think that at the very least some of the lower ranking Death Eaters might purely on the basis that he is a very powerful wizard in his own right.

Severus Snape - Narcissa refers to them as friends and despite my beliefs about where Snape's loyalties lie I think that they may have been friends at some point. At school I could easily see the "lapdog" comment made by Sirius as an indication that Snape did some fetcing and carrying and ran errands for Lucius. I think that there might even have been some form of hero worship from the young Snape in the direction of Lucius.

More recently I think that Lucius might not have approved (if he knew about it) of Narcissa calling in a favour in the name of his friendship with Snape with regards to the unbreakable vow. I think that he is smart enough to have been one of those who would question his loyalty, particularly now that he is in prison.

I think that he is grateful however for the protection of Draco that Snape offers.

Harry Potter - I think he sees Harry as an obstacle that stands between Voldemort coming to power, and he himself gaining more power at the same time. I think that he doesn't really see him as anything more than that. If he saw him as a child of his own son's age then I don't think he would treat him in the same way that he does.

I think after the graveyard scene in GoF he might also have a little grudging respect for Harry for managing to escape.

Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

I think he did.

He is the one to bring the other Death Eaters into line when they are about to risk attacking Harry regardless of whether the prophecy is destroyed. He even deflects Bellatrix's attack in order to try to keep the prophecy safe.

It was only after the members of the Order turned up that things fell apart. He was the one who was calmly trying to keep things from going south that much sooner.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

I would hope that he does escape from Azkaban or that we at least get to see him again but am really unsure what sort of a role he will play. I do wonder if he might turn on Voldemort in retaliation or defence of Draco though.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

I think it will depend on what happens to Draco now that he has failed in his mission.

Lucius may not have seen it as a punishment, he may have been proud that his son had been entrusted to such a task. We don't know how he has reacted to this, we have only seen Narcissa's reaction.

I think that for the most part these are not mutually exclusive and that he can be loyal to the both of them. I think that only book seven will tell us one way or the other where his loyalties really lie.
I think his use of the Diary in CoS to further his own feud with Arthur Weasley is an indication that his first loyalty is not to Voldemort. I think he joined Voldemort in the first place because he expected it to be to his advantage. I don't think he was all that thrilled to see Voldemort vack in GoF, though this I can't back with more than just that it is my impression.

I am unsure as to whether Voldemort told him that it was a horcrux, or a part of his soul; I think he could have told him that it was a means of restoring him to power if he appeared defeated.
I tend to agree with theotherwoman on this. I think all Voldemort told 'his slippery friend' was that the Diary contained Dark Magic that could open the CHamber of Secrets.

At first glance the diary is merely an empty book - I can't believe that Lucius never once wrote in it to see what would happen and find out why it was so important.
Hmm. As a statement about Lucius, I could see that. But if Tom Riddle had had the opportunity to manipulate Lucius, I think he would have. I see no evidence of this. In p-articular, he states he learned about Harry's history from Ginny, suggesting she was the first he so manipulated. He did not make Harry his target until sometime afetr Ginny started writing in the Diary. He certainly would have, if he had been controlling Lucius for 16 years.

I think that we have seen too little of him in this role to know one way or the other. He has clearly brought Draco up to have the same ideals and beliefs that he has. I think that he probably sees himself as a good father.

I think he cares for Draco, but Ido not htink he is a particularly good father. Draco seems a tad too desperate to be just like his father and please him. I don't think Draco receives the confidence in his father's unconditional love that he needs to develop better self-esteem.

Bellatrix Lestrange - I think that our view of his relationship with Bellatrix is tainted by the fact that the only time we see them together (that I can recall anyway) is at the Minstry. I don't feel that you can judge what sort of a relationship they had by seeing them in that instance. I suspect he doesn't have a great deal of patience with her though, she is the one he really has to stop from accidentally destroying the prophecy after all.
I would add, they are competitors for Voldemort's favor. I don't think he's quite the fanatic Bella is, but he still wants to be number one, for the power over the others it would bring him.

Narcissa Malfoy - I like to think that they married for love but I again I don't think that we have seen enough of them reacting together to judge entirely what their situation is. The idea of an arranged marriage is one that I have heard mentioned in respect of them and for some reason that idea does not sit entirely right with me in respect of this couple.
It is actually the case that in cultures with arranged marriages, while there are nightmare stories (just as there are in the West, where this custom has fallen out of favor) many couples grow to love each other after marriage. Regardless of how the marriage started, I think Lucius and Narcissa have a good relationship. She will not allow her sister to criticize her husband in Spinner's End. He defers to her wishes about their son's education.

Severus Snape - Narcissa refers to them as friends and despite my beliefs about where Snape's loyalties lie I think that they may have been friends at some point. At school I could easily see the "lapdog" comment made by Sirius as an indication that Snape did some fetcing and carrying and ran errands for Lucius. I think that there might even have been some form of hero worship from the young Snape in the direction of Lucius.
:tu: Exactly how I see it. Also, I think Snape may have been exploiting his tie to Lucius in his spying, because of Lucius's many connections.

Hmm. As a statement about Lucius, I could see that. But if Tom Riddle had had the opportunity to manipulate Lucius, I think he would have. I see no evidence of this. In p-articular, he states he learned about Harry's history from Ginny, suggesting she was the first he so manipulated. He did not make Harry his target until sometime afetr Ginny started writing in the Diary. He certainly would have, if he had been controlling Lucius for 16 years.

I don't think Lucius was being controlled in the same sense that Ginny was. If he were he would be taking his life in the same way as he was taking Ginny's. Would he want to do that to one of his most powerful Death Eater's, one with ties to a number of others who might well want revenge for the death of one of the family?

I meant more that Lucius could have found out from the diary itself what it was capable of. Supposing he had discovered what it was through the diary's prompting and Voldemort had succeeded in being restored back then...from Lucius's point of view I think he would think it worth the risk.

Tom told Harry what he wanted him to hear. Or rather showed him what he wanted him to see.

He could have had other information from Lucius but have an idea that naming someone who Harry wasn't aware had the diary could set all sorts of alarm bells ringing.

And when would Lucius have had the get the diary near to Harry before he did? Harry had been outside of the wizarding world until the year before and there were rumours that he was a new Dark Lord, he may simply have been biding his time until after reports from Draco during the first year Harry was at Hogwart's.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

Is Lucius loyal at all? I'm pretty convinced that he follows Voldemort for what he can get out of it, not because he admires Voldy. To his family he is most probably loyal but I'm not sure he'd do as much for Narcissa as she'd do for him.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

He only knew that the Diary was enchanted to open the Chamber of Secrets and set Slytherin's monster loose. I don't know if he knew what the monster was or if he considered it could hurt Draco or his friends. His desire to discredit Arthur and Albus led him to endanger the whole school. I'm certain he didn't know it was a horcrux and I don't think he knew how the Diary would work, ie that Tom Riddle could be reborn.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

He's about as good a father as Vernon Dursley! :lol: He spoils his son, and is critical of him, but seems to take Draco into his confidence about things such as the Chamber of Secrets. He isn't exactly a shining role model for Draco is he? Self-centred, conceited, bigoted.


What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

Bella is his sister-in-law but I don't get the impression he's particularly close to her. Have we ever seen them together? Oh yes, at the MOM. He tells her to shut up which doesn't seem to me to be very affectionate!:lol:
Arthur he despises because he could be a snobby pure-blood but instead he is a blood traitor. Lucius definitely disapproves of that.
Draco - I don't know how he feels about his son, which is a sad thing to say. He buys him lots of stuff but he never seems to speak to him affectionately or be encouraging. On the other hand he tried to get Buckbeak killed after it had attacked Draco so perhaps he does care for him. Equally he might have done that to discredit Dumbledore.
Dumbledore he really dislikes. Probably because Dumbledore likes Muggles and Mudbloods too.
I think Lucius sees himself as better than the other DEs and would like to be Voldy's 2nd in command if he could do it.
Snape he seems to be in cahoots with but as we don't know yet which side Snape is on e don't know if Lucius is deluded or not.
Harry - I don't think Lucius thought much of him at all at first but after Harry liberated Dobby I think Lucius would do what he could against Harry.


Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

I think he seriously underestimated the power of the kids and thought it would be a push-over. He was proved wrong and then the Order turned up and I don't think there was much more he could do.


Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

Myself I think he'll stay safe in Azkaban as long as he can!


Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

I think Lucius would take revenge if he thought it could be done without endangering himself. I really don't think he'd take on Voldemort at full power though.

[B]
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

He's about as good a father as Vernon Dursley! :lol: He spoils his son, and is critical of him, but seems to take Draco into his confidence about things such as the Chamber of Secrets. He isn't exactly a shining role model for Draco is he? Self-centred, conceited, bigoted.




Why didn't I think of that?! :lol: He does seem to tell Draco an awful lot...at least, more than other kids seem to hear from their parents. Draco knew about the GoF beforehand, as well as the CoS and it doesn't seem like anyone else knew as much as Draco did (or at least they weren't talking about it). Good point!

I think that for the most part these are not mutually exclusive and that he can be loyal to the both of them. I think that only book seven will tell us one way or the other where his loyalties really lie. I think that it may lie with his family.

Well, being loyal to Voldemort means to risk the life of their only son and heir. We have seen that Bella would sacrifice her children instantly. We have also seen that Narcissa puts her family above Voldemort. I think that Lucius would do the same. The house of Malfoy needs an heir and sending him on a suicide mission cannot be in Lucius' interest.


I think it will depend on what happens to Draco now that he has failed in his mission.

Lucius may not have seen it as a punishment, he may have been proud that his son had been entrusted to such a task. We don't know how he has reacted to this, we have only seen Narcissa's reaction.

Yes, true, but Lucius never appeared to be overly loyal to Voldemort. He is a Machiavellian character: he manipulates, bribes, blackmails etc for his own interests, not Voldemort's.

I think his use of the Diary in CoS to further his own feud with Arthur Weasley is an indication that his first loyalty is not to Voldemort. I think he joined Voldemort in the first place because he expected it to be to his advantage. I don't think he was all that thrilled to see Voldemort vack in GoF, though this I can't back with more than just that it is my impression.

Exactly what I think. I always wondered why he despises Arthur so much. He is a blood-traitor, yes, but their feud seems to be very personal.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?He's scared of Voldemort - and he admires him the same time. He would probably like to have a similar power, but I doubt he feels more comfortable since Voldemorts return.

If Voldemort would tell him to leave his family I doubt he could resist.


What did he know about Riddle’s diary?I assume he knew that it is the opener to the chamber. It seems nobody of the Death Eaters really got the idea of horcruxes - they didn't know or they didn't understand. For the diary he just used it to treaten Arthur, but not in the intention to spread Slytherin's thought again. That was a site effect he probably liked, of course.



Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?Not in my opinion. Draco has to learn how to become a good manipulator of society, not how to become a good human and how to live his life. That's actually very sad.


Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?Very good question. I still think he's the coward Bella suspected him to be. He didn't do too much, he more feared to destroy the prophecy (and get a punishment) than really try to get it. I doubt he tried to not get it, his loyalities are by the Dark Lord (see the reasons above).

My Character Analysis of Lucius Malfoy: Opening Statement: He is one of my more hates characters. Though he is fairly well-written, I can't help but not like him for the Chamber of Secrets thing, I mean, that was just plain evil! People could've died, Hogwarts could've ended...Lucius definetely made Draco what he is today. Though I think Draco isn't pure evil, like his father, though. I think there is something we're missing...
Favorite Quotes: None.
Favorite Moments: I love the whole sock/diary scene in Chamber of Secrets. Lucius sure got mad :p.


Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
I think he is more loyal to Voldemort than his family. Draco is more loyal to his family, though. Lucius seems the type of person who would let them go and him go serve Voldemort if Voldemort said so. Lucius is scared of death and Voldemort, of course, so he is trapped.
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
I think the line is drawn at the point where he only, supposedly, knew that if the Diary was brought to Hogwarts, therre was a good chance the Chamber of Secrets would be opened. I am not sure whether he knew it was a Horcrux until later, but maybe he never learned...
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
No, he is not. Look at Draco. Then look at Lucius. It all comes from Lucius. The bullying, the thinking that he, Draco, is better than everyone else, the lies, everything. Narcissa isn't an angel, actually far from it, but she isn't as bad, or as evil, from what we have seen of Lucius.
What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
Bellatrix and Lucius, well, I don't know...It seems to me that they are both loyal to Voldemort; Bellatrix more so. So when Lucius messed up, Bellatrix started to hate Lucius and stuff because Bellatrix is so loyal. She almost cursed her own sister with her wand.

He hates Arthur Weasley very much, second to Harry only. There will be no alliances between them, no makeups or anything like that. They are enemies and that is all they cane ver be, even if the Malfoy family is given the reprieve.

He might love Draco, I do not know. Draco certainly looks up to his father, very highly in fact. Draco respects the amount of power, wealth, and position his father holds. He seems to want to be just like him. That is not good.
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
Lucius seemed pretty ticked off when he saw Harry just toying with him. He knew the consequences of not getting the Prophecy, and with that fact alone, Lucius tried with all his might to get it for his master. He cared not what it says, though maybe he was curious. He only cared for his life which may or may not be spared even in Book 7 because of that act. Lucius was saved by the Ministry when he was put into Azkaban.
Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Not as big of a role as he has in the past books, and I can't really see him of much important anymore. I can't plug him in much of anywhere, cept with Draco. His fate is in Draco's hands. If Draco sides woth the Dark Side completely, it might not be so good for Lucius. If Draco sides with the Good Side, then it isn't good for anyone, but perhaps the Ministry would be able to protect them like Dumbledore said -- or atleast the Order.
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how much he loves his family, how much he is scared of Voldemort, and where his loyalties lay. His family's fate is in Draco's hands now...

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I'm sure Lucius enjoys the association when it benefits him. Voldemort gives him huge license to act on extremely ugly impulses which, in politer society, he would not be allowed to indulge. If Voldemort were asking my advice, I would tell him to off Lucius Malfoy YESTERDAY. He and Voldemort agree on a lot of things, but I don't see any sign of loyalty. His selfishness and cowardice are just plain dangerous.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

For example, he let the Chamber of Secrets get opened mainly to avoid being associated with something that belonged to Voldemort. It must have occured to him that opening the Chamber of Secrets would be dangerous. His own son could have been killed -- unless Lucius was just that sure that whatever came out of the chamber was only hungry for mudbloods -- which ignorance is also dangerous.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

So far as his treatment of Draco, I would say he's not too terrible. Not good exactly, but I think most people could bounce back from the experience. So far as the example he's setting, he just couldn't be much worse, could he?

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

what an interesting question. I agree with theotherwoman. He was definitely trying, but he could have been trying more. Also, it wasn't really his kind of situation. He was in a position where he had to be really direct and confrontational, so that was a disadvantage.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

It seems unrealistic for Voldemort to keep him around, yet killing him would sort of drag him into the limelight in the next book, which there might be no reason to do... The Malfoys in general may have served their narrative purpose already, which would be too bad, since they're so fun to read about. What I would really like is for him to get into another fight with Arthur Weasley.


7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

He would certainly LIKE to seek revenge, but he might have to decide if it's worth it. I don't think he would risk his own life. He might give it a shot if he thought he would die either way.

In general, I have less faith in Lucius than any other character in the entire series. If the series were a race toward redemption, he MIGHT get there before Voldemort, but I doubt it.

1.

In general, I have less faith in Lucius than any other character in the entire series. If the series were a race toward redemption, he MIGHT get there before Voldemort, but I doubt it.

Well said! :clap: I totally agree with that!

My Analysis - Lucius Malfoy
Lucius is the perfect example of a follower of Voldemort. He discriminates against muggles and half bloods, and feels justified that he can say he is superior to them. He has had money his whole life and likes to let other people know that he is better than them - like Arthur Weasley. He has trained his son to think as he does and instilled a great sense of pride in him.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
Lucius seems to believe in Voldemort's cause. He relishes his position in society most of all, so him being in prison must be a real downfall to his status. The elite Death Eater "group" reminds me of secret clubs rich males have liked to participate in through out the ages, like the Free Mason's or something. Not that they promote evil things like the DE's but in that they can exclude other people. Anyway, personally I think almost everyone except Bellatrix is loyal to themselves first and Voldemort is secondary or tertiary etc.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
I don't think he knew exactly what it was because I thought knowledge of horcruxes was very uncommon. He seemed to doubt whether Voldemort was coming back so he didn't protect this (dark magic) property too well, and pawned it off on Ginny Weasley to incriminate the Weasley family. He did that for selfish and not very nice reasons.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
Lucius is a good father in that he provides for his family, but there is a lot more than that to being a good father. Judging by how he treats Draco and how Draco acts in general you can question his abilities or motivations as a father. He doesn't come off well in that respect. I'm sure he loves Draco though.

What is/was his relationship to
/Arthur Weasley
For whatever reason Lucius dislikes Arthur and his family very much. I guess it's because they are "blood traitors" or whatever. I also know he looks down on them because they are not as wealthy etc. It just shows how petty Lucius can be.
/his son Draco
He is very authoritative of Draco. Draco it would seem would hate to disapoint his father. Lucius taught Draco all his prejudices and he is a willing son to follow in his Dad's footsteps.
/Narcissa Malfoy
His wife, I don't recall ever reading a scene with them interacting very much, but I think she is more nurturing of Draco because he is their only child and she didn't want him to go far off to school in Durmstrang/also her actions in Spinner's End.
/other Death Eaters
He seems to be a Death Eater of higher regard simply because of his role in society. He is very rich and thinks he is better than everyone else.
/Harry Potter
I guess he knows Harry is Draco's rival in school, so he doesn't like him at all. There is also the reason that he defeated Voldemort and is of halfblood parentage. He probably doesn't like the fact that Harry will talk back to him either.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
I'm not sure if he will get out of Azkaban. It depends on if JKR wants to make use of him I guess.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
No, I don't think he will. He knows Voldemort is too powerful to oppose directly. He might sabotage in other ways though secretly, but he knows there is a great risk Voldy might find him out.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
No, I don't think he will. He knows Voldemort is too powerful to oppose directly. He might sabotage in other ways though secretly, but he knows there is a great risk Voldy might find him out.

Well, sabotage and revenge aren't mutually exclusive. Lucius never had a direct approach, he never ran into things like Bella or Sirius. He is much more careful. But planning revenge by sabotaging Voldemort's plans and showing him not to mess with a Malfoy sounds very much like Lucius to me. And Voldemort tried to do the worst to him: breaking the bloodline and consequently ending the House of Malfoy.

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
It’s hard to say, but I’m going to say he’s loyal to his family and himself first, and then Voldemort. When one’s family is put at risk, it seems likely that most people would drop their other loyalties and help their family. Lucius is very loyal to Voldemort, but I don’t think he’s like Bellatrix, who would gladly offer up her child to Voldemort. Also, we see Lucius do what he thinks will benefit himself while Voldemort is MIA when he plants the diary in Ginny’s cauldron.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
Whatever he knew, he didn’t know it was a horcrux, or he’d have treated it with much more respect, as Dumbledore tells us. He only knew that it was a “weapon” of sorts that would open the Chamber of Secrets and thus continue Voldemort’s work.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
Well, I’m sure he loves his son, but that doesn’t make him a good father. I don’t think he’s a very good father because of the way he spoils Draco. Also, Lucius expects his son to be nearly perfect; for instance, he is upset that Draco was beaten by a “mudblood” (Hermione). He is critical of Draco when Draco doesn’t succeed in the way he wants him to.

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
Lucius must have been on good terms with Bellatrix, Snape and the other Death Eaters. I do wonder if there was a bit of competition between he, Bellatrix and possibly Snape to be Voldemort’s favorite. Lucius seems a little controlling of Draco, teaching him closely all the ways of a “proper” Pureblood wizard. I’m sure he must have loved Draco nevertheless, as well as his wife Narcissa. Lucius has always frowned upon Dumbledore, deeming him a “muggle-lover”. He also frowns upon all of the Weasleys, but Arthur especially since he’s Lucius’ rival. I agree with theotherwoman that Harry is likely viewed by Lucius the way Snape views him.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
Yes, I don’t see what else he could have done. He led the group of Death Eaters on the DoM mission, and tried to talk Harry into giving the prophecy to him. I agree that he definitely underestimated Harry though, so in hindsight I suppose he could have taken Harry more seriously.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
It’s possible he could escape, or get broken out of Azkaban by someone (Narcissa maybe). If he does get out, he may try to win back Voldemort’s favor (good luck to him!). Or he may possibly join Narcissa and do something against Voldemort because of what he did to their son (though I think that’s kind of unlikely). In any case, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Lucius.

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
I don’t know if Lucius is in a position to do that if he’s imprisoned, but I’m pretty sure he’d want to avenge the way his son was treated (ie being used like a pawn by Voldemort). But as LouisaB said, it also depends on how Draco is treated after Voldemort learns he failed to kill Dumbledore.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
I think he's only loyal to Voldemort to the point that it is an advantage him. He is definately not a fanatic like Bellatrix. Remember Voldemort tells Lucius that there were rumors and whispers of his whereabouts, but Lucius did not attempt to contact him.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
I don't think he knew all that much, since Voldemort is a rather closed off person. He just knew that it would rid Hogwarts of Mudbloods. He did it to get rid of his Dark Arts things and to discredit Arthur Weasley (and then to maybe get rid of the Muggle Protection Act?)

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
I don't think he's a bad one. He seems to really care for Draco (Buckbeak, Voldemort using Draco to punish Lucius). Draco also holds Lucius in very high regard, and was crying that his parents (which would include Lucius) might be killed by Voldemort. Draco doesn't seem to be the type to give love without being loved in return -- thus Lucius does love his son.

What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
Bellatrix: He might be friends with her, but that is probably because she is Narcissa's sister. I don't think that they're really that close. She is too much of a fanatic to Voldemort and would sacrifice her child if she had one to him.
Arthur Weasley: They might have gone to Hogwarts together. I think that their hostility started in Hogwarts and just got worse over the years. Lucius holds contempt for everything that Arthur is and does.
Draco: I think that he loves Draco and gives him whatever he desires. However, he might also be quite strict with him for any wrongdoings. So Lucius is both lavish and strict with Draco. (Must get confusing for Draco)
Dumbledore: I think that he completely despises him and frowns upon all of Dumbledore's ideas.
Narcissa: Narcissa was rather protective of Lucius in Spinner's End "Don't you dare-don't you dare blame my husband!". While completely worried out of her mind about Draco, she still showed that she cares about Lucius extremely. That part led me to believe that Narcissa and Lucius do have a very loving relationship, whatever the reasons for this would be.
Death Eaters: They probably look up to Lucius as an authority figure who is second in line after Voldemort (maybe after Bella as well, but he is up there). They are also probably frightened of him a little because of who he is and his name and influence.
Snape: I think that he considers Snape a rather close acquaintance. I think that it was Lucius who introduced Snape to the Death Eaters
Harry Potter: He is bound to have heard a lot about Harry (from Draco and Snape), and none of it good. I don't think that Lucius underestimates him exactly (especially after the Minnistry), but he is bound to think of Harry as somebody who has gotten out of things through sheer luck

Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
I agree with horcrux4 who said that he underestimated the kids. He wanted to have some fun with them and was so sure that it would be so easy, that he did not use all his abilities to retrieve the prophecy.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Yes, he has to! Why else build him up so much for such an anticlimatic end? I can't really see him surviving past the seventh book however, he's done too many horrible things in the books so far.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
I would agree with the people who said that it depends on how Voldemort treats Draco afterwards. I think it is more likely that he would attempt to take revenge however. I don't think that he would allow anybody to mess with his family and not pay for it. Though I don't think Lucius will full out go and join the Order, he might secretly sabotage some of Voldemorts plans or something.

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I'm sure Lucius enjoys the association when it benefits him. Voldemort gives him huge license to act on extremely ugly impulses which, in politer society, he would not be allowed to indulge.
Totally! It kind of amounts to "you mean I did all those horrible things? Oh, that's because I was under the Imperius curse!" [look around suspiciously]. He must love the idea he can be this man-about-town in the general public, doing what Lucius likes, and then at night run around in a cape and mask being evil. It's like halloween all the time!


If Voldemort were asking my advice, I would tell him to off Lucius Malfoy YESTERDAY.
You can definately see how the Malfoy's in general are a bit of a liability. You've got Lucius, who does what he wants when he thinks it's safe but then joins the winning team when he thinks there is one. Then Narcissa, who won't keep quiet when she was told to, and Draco, who can't complete his tasks. Yeah, for Voldie's sake, offing the Malfoys in general may have been a smart move!


In general, I have less faith in Lucius than any other character in the entire series. If the series were a race toward redemption, he MIGHT get there before Voldemort, but I doubt it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:. That's great!

It's interesting that most people here seem to think that Lucius is on good terms with Bella. I thought about this a lot and I'm in two minds about this. Bella is of course Lucius' sister in law and they are both Death Eaters. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean that they are close. Peter is a Death Eater and nobody is friends with him. Bella also killed her own cousin. What really makes me suspicious is that Bella was in Azkaban while Lucius wasn't. I would think that she bears a grudge for him not being loyal. Lucius could consider his wife's fanatic sister a liability who endagers his personal plotting. This is of course speculation, there is no canon for either interpretation since we've never seen them talking to each other in private.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange?
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?


1. I think he's loyal to himself, and he is on Voldemort's side because it gives him power.
2. He knew it was something that could cause some trouble at Hogwarts, but I don't believe he knew it was a bit of Voldemort's soul. If he knew, he wouldn't have done what he did, because it would be like delivering a bit of Voldemort directly to Dumbledore's hands.
3. I don't really think he is. He doesn't love Draco (IMO), he just 'trains' him to follow his footsteps and become a powerful man in the future. I believe he does this just to keep the Malfoy name up high, something like keeping 'the tradition' alive.
4. I don't think he's in good terms with Bellatrix, but he's far too intelligent to show this openly.
5. I believe he did.
6. He will definitely appear in Book 7, but I don't know if he will break out from Azkaban. He's safer there at this moment, because he's not really on Voldy's good side right now.
7. I don't think so. I don't think he would face Voldemort; he would know he has no chance of winning. Besides, we still don't know what will happen with Draco.


It's interesting that most people here seem to think that Lucius is on good terms with Bella. I thought about this a lot and I'm in two minds about this. Bella is of course Lucius' sister in law and they are both Death Eaters. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean that they are close. Peter is a Death Eater and nobody is friends with him. Bella also killed her own cousin. What really makes me suspicious is that Bella was in Azkaban while Lucius wasn't. I would think that she bears a grudge for him not being loyal. Lucius could consider his wife's fanatic sister a liability who endagers his personal plotting. This is of course speculation, there is no canon for either interpretation since we've never seen them talking to each other in private.

I think they respect each other, because they both belong to Voldemort's inner circle, but they (IMO) are in some kind of competence; they're trying to show Voldemort who's the most loyal. I think Bella is winning right now, but we'll have to wait for Book 7 to know what will happen with them.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
Himself and his family, no doubt about that. He will always go to the side which gives him more profit. He does believe in the general ideas of course, purebloods, etc, but he is in for himself.
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
He thought it was a device with Voldemorts memory to open the Chamber of Secrets again. He didn't know it was a horcrux.
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
Hmm, tricky question. I would say he loves his son, even if he isn't that much the man to show feelings. He pressures Draco a lot, for example when he tells him that he should be ashamed that a mudblood is better than him in every class. He shows Draco his own values (which from Lucius point of view is a good thing). He protects Draco, and he is revengeful to anybody who harms Draco. (Buckbeak, Hagrid). Well, I guess that he is a good father from a Malfoy point of view. But if we disagree generally on the pureblood idea and the superiority than he is not.
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?Well, he's in for himself. He wouldn't have died to get the prophecy, that is clear.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book? I don't think that he will escape by himself. Maybe Voldemort will free him now (after all Draco did help to kill Dumbledore). But I don't see Lucius chosing Voldemort over his son and wife. If they are endangered he will try to find a solution, even if this means to turn away from Voldemort.
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son? Not yet. But he will not be amused about it. His family is more important than Voldemort, I am pretty sure about that.


It's interesting that most people here seem to think that Lucius is on good terms with Bella. I thought about this a lot and I'm in two minds about this. Bella is of course Lucius' sister in law and they are both Death Eaters.
I never thought they were in specially good terms. Bella despises everybody who did not suffer in Askaban during Vapormort times. Lucius chose the easy way, he denied Voldemort, she is a fanatic and doesn't understand it.
Also the comment in Spinners end, when Bella blames Lucius for the fiasko, makes me think that they were not on too good terms. Maybe Bellatrix was jealous that Lucius got the leadership in the ministry mission, and not herself.

It's interesting that most people here seem to think that Lucius is on good terms with Bella. I thought about this a lot and I'm in two minds about this. Bella is of course Lucius' sister in law and they are both Death Eaters. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean that they are close. Peter is a Death Eater and nobody is friends with him. Bella also killed her own cousin. What really makes me suspicious is that Bella was in Azkaban while Lucius wasn't. I would think that she bears a grudge for him not being loyal. Lucius could consider his wife's fanatic sister a liability who endagers his personal plotting. This is of course speculation, there is no canon for either interpretation since we've never seen them talking to each other in private.

:tu: I agree with you on this! I agree that Lucius would view Bella as a liability. I think, also, there is more to their antagonism.

In the first war, both Lucius and Bellatrix were in the running to consider themselves the Dark Lord's favorite. As evidence I would point out that Lucius was entrusted with the diary, while Bella was entrusted with the Dark Lord's "most precious", as she almost lets slip to Snape in Spinner's End. So they would have viewed themselves as in competition.

Also, I think Bella not only bears a grudge, but is jealous that Lucius was given command of the Ministry mission, and not she (hence her disparaging comment at Spinner's End: "-if Lucius hadn't-" which Narcissa cuts off with an angry "Don't you dare-don't you dare blame my husband!")

I think, though, that both the fact that they are on the same side, and their tie through Narcissa, means that they do keep up appearances for the most part.

In the first war, both Lucius and Bellatrix were in the running to consider themselves the Dark Lord's favorite. . . So they would have viewed themselves as in competition

Oh, Voldemort, you're so clever -- harnessing their animosity for your own gain...

I know this is supposed to be about Lucius, but I think Bellatrix tends to share Voldemort's opinion on Lucius (and everything else), so she's probably not too fond of him at the moment. I don't think Lucius is particularly attached to her.

Also, as theotherwoman says:
He must love the idea he can be this man-about-town in the general public, doing what Lucius likes, and then at night run around in a cape and mask being evil. It's like halloween all the time!

Bellatrix is all running around being evil -- she doesn't have the civilized side. Being the Dark Lord's servant is more like something she IS, whereas for Lucius, it's just something he DOES.

(I'm glad there are others who think LM is practically as bad off as Voldemort. What's his excuse anyway?)

Bellatrix is all running around being evil -- she doesn't have the civilized side. Being the Dark Lord's servant is more like something she IS, whereas for Lucius, it's just something he DOES.

(I'm glad there are others who think LM is practically as bad off as Voldemort. What's his excuse anyway?)

I would tend to quote Rowling on Snape here (the quote that Snape is more culpable than Voldemort, in a way, because he has been loved). I think it applies equally well to Lucius. Voldemort seems to really have lacked any chance to develop normal, warm, human ties with anyone, due to the circumstances of his birth and childhood.) Lucius, on the other hand, seems to have attached at least the affections of his wife and son.

So yes, I agree with you about Lucius! :tu:

Before GoF, the books made it clear that Lucius was a bad character - especially in CoS, when when learned he was a Dark Wizard who liked to abuse his House Elf, and also that he was going around threatening people to get Dumbledore tossed from Hogwarts - not to mention his role in nearly getting Harry and Ginny both killed.

But even knowing all that, it still makes me squirm to read about Lucius grovelling to the Dark Lord, when he know he has a son and a wife at home. It seems out of character, yet in GoF we find out only part of the story:

Voldemort now approached the man on Wormtail's right.


"Lucius, my slippery friend," he whispered, halting before him. "I am told that you have not renounced the old ways, though to the world you present a respectable face. You are still ready to take the lead in a spot of Muggle-torture, I believe? Yet you never tried to find me, Lucius. . . . Your exploits at the Quidditch World Cup were fun, I daresay. . . but might not your energies have been better directed toward finding and aiding your master?"

"My Lord, I was constantly on the alert," came Lucius Malfoy's voice swiftly from beneath the hood. "Had there been any sign from you, any whisper of your whereabouts, I would have been at your side immediately, nothing could have prevented me -"

"And yet you ran from my Mark, when a faithful Death Eater sent it into the sky last summer?" said Voldemort lazily, and Mr. Malfoy stopped talking abruptly. "Yes, I know all about that, Lucius. . . . You have disappointed me. ... I expect more faithful service in the future."

"Of course, my Lord, of course. . . . You are merciful, thank you. ..."

What we are not shown is what is now known from HBP: that Lucius went ahead with the plan in CoS which destroyed a valuable Horcrux, and he was punished for that. Dumbledore says Voldemort felt "fury" about it - we can only imagine what he did to Lucius for that, which is probably why Lucius is so intent upon redeeming himself by getting the Prophecy at the DoM.

I do believe that Lucius may have the ability to love both Narcissa and Draco, and that is why they remain loyal to him. But his obsession with the Dark Lord has led to his wife being abandoned while he sits in Azkaban, and Draco turned into a Death Eater. So he's just one more in the "litany of bad fathers" that JKR talks about.

Bellatrix is all running around being evil -- she doesn't have the civilized side. Being the Dark Lord's servant is more like something she IS, whereas for Lucius, it's just something he DOES.

(I'm glad there are others who think LM is practically as bad off as Voldemort. What's his excuse anyway?)

My take on Voldemort/Lucius is that Voldemort is such a monster that he's off the scale of humanity and he has become something almost inhuman, like a plague. Lucius though is a throroughly wicked human and as such touches our anger and sense of injustice. He has a wife who loves and supports him, a son who idolises him - where does he get off with being casually cruel? *gets down off soapbox*

I think your comment on Bella/Lucius is spot on! :clap: For that reason I don't think they get on really - Bella is all fire and Lucius all ice. Neither will ever really relate well to the other.

Lucius though is a throroughly wicked human and as such touches our anger and sense of injustice. He has a wife who loves and supports him, a son who idolises him - where does he get off with being casually cruel? *gets down off soapbox*.

He does seem to be a bit sick, doesn't he? The whole issue with him being crazy abusive to poor Dobby (yeah, Sirius isn't nice to Kreacher but he's not beating Kreacher down all the time) and beyond arrogant..he's very old world in that, in thinking himself as almost royalty, he doesn't see a need for common courtesy unless it benefits himself.

He's got his money, his presumably attractive wife (who idolizes him) and a son constantly aspiring for his attention; why would he care to be nice? He's got what he wanted (although more money and power could never hurt!) while being nasty so there is no real reason for him to be a good person. It's all about the power for him. He's all that and a chocolate frog and you'd better do what he says...

Although perhaps it's just because he's so vocal about what he does/doesn't like and that's why he gets such a bad rep. Not to point fingers at Narcissa, for this is really neither the time nor place, but I think she's just as cold and nasty as Lucius can be but she hides it better. And does that make her a better person because of it? She may care for her son (as does Lucius) and will do what she can for him (as does Lucius), but were Draco not in danger I bet she's just as awful.

...gonna go repost some of that on the Narcissa board...:blush:

He does seem to be a bit sick, doesn't he? The whole issue with him being crazy abusive to poor Dobby (yeah, Sirius isn't nice to Kreacher but he's not beating Kreacher down all the time) and beyond arrogant..he's very old world in that, in thinking himself as almost royalty, he doesn't see a need for common courtesy unless it benefits himself.

He's got his money, his presumably attractive wife (who idolizes him) and a son constantly aspiring for his attention; why would he care to be nice? He's got what he wanted (although more money and power could never hurt!) while being nasty so there is no real reason for him to be a good person. It's all about the power for him. He's all that and a chocolate frog and you'd better do what he says...
I think he must have a real sick kink in his mind to be so sadistic. Otherwise anyone with money, reputation and a loving family would be cruel and they aren't. (Well, not all...;) )

Maybe he was treated as a kid exactly as he treats Draco - spoiled and fed with ideas of his own importance and the inferiority of the rest of the world. Even so he must have had a naturally sadistic streak to turn out as nasty as he is. Wonder if he pulled the legs off flies?? Or got his house-elf to do it for him....

Suddenly realise this is coming close to character-knocking which we aren't supposed to do on these threads, so apologies to any Lucius-lovers out there!

I think he must have a real sick kink in his mind to be so sadistic. Otherwise anyone with money, reputation and a loving family would be cruel and they aren't. (Well, not all...;) )
Sorry, I worded that poorly...What I was aiming for was to say that there has been no reason for him to be particularly kind to most because he's never had to. I'm more thinking towards that saying 'money can't buy happiness' and I really think in Lucius' mind it can. He can buy his connections or supporters or friends. He can buy degrees and laws he wants passed, can buy his sons affection with promises of the latest broom or whathaveyou...why would Lucius bother being a kinder person when it seems like he gets off a bit on being nasty and there's no real repercussions for his actions?


Maybe he was treated as a kid exactly as he treats Draco - spoiled and fed with ideas of his own importance and the inferiority of the rest of the world. Even so he must have had a naturally sadistic streak to turn out as nasty as he is. Wonder if he pulled the legs off flies?? Or got his house-elf to do it for him....
I'd imagine his upbringing was very similar to Draco's upbringing...that whole thing about life cycles, history repeating itself and whatnot...He's just doing what he knows.


Suddenly realise this is coming close to character-knocking which we aren't supposed to do on these threads, so apologies to any Lucius-lovers out there!
Don't worry about it!:lol: I heart Lucius but I do know he is...well...bad. My apologies as well to the other Lucius lovers out there!

Sorry, I worded that poorly...What I was aiming for was to say that there has been no reason for him to be particularly kind to most because he's never had to. I'm more thinking towards that saying 'money can't buy happiness' and I really think in Lucius' mind it can. He can buy his connections or supporters or friends. He can buy degrees and laws he wants passed, can buy his sons affection with promises of the latest broom or whathaveyou...why would Lucius bother being a kinder person when it seems like he gets off a bit on being nasty and there's no real repercussions for his actions?



I agree that if you don't suffer repercussions for your bad actions you don't learn not to do them. Which would explain a lot of his character. I wonder whether he'll learn anything at all from being in Azkaban and finding he can't buy his way out? And finding that Voldemort doesn't intend to spring him? Voldemort's 2 favourites are both in his bad books. Wonder if Lucius will return to Voldemort if he can or lie low and see who is going to win?

I agree that if you don't suffer repercussions for your bad actions you don't learn not to do them. Which would explain a lot of his character. I wonder whether he'll learn anything at all from being in Azkaban and finding he can't buy his way out? And finding that Voldemort doesn't intend to spring him? Voldemort's 2 favourites are both in his bad books. Wonder if Lucius will return to Voldemort if he can or lie low and see who is going to win?

Well with the Dementors having left Azkaban - I can't see Azkaban being very tough to break out of. So if Lucius is still there, then I can see his plan as wanting to lay low and see what happens....

Well with the Dementors having left Azkaban - I can't see Azkaban being very tough to break out of. So if Lucius is still there, then I can see his plan as wanting to lay low and see what happens....

Dude, you're so right! He's probably not going to come out of Azkaban unless a)Voldie will take him back or b)his family is in danger or c)his own life is in danger. It appears to me that Lucius goes where the gettin's good. That's to say, he goes where he feels he stands to gain the most.

Horcrux4, yeah, LV's faves are both in his bad books aren't they? Although I kind of wonder whether he had a bit of a soft spot for Bellatrix because he grabbed her before he disappeared. He left Lucius down in the DoM to be arrested...Different story for a different day! ;)

Actually, I wonder about that? Anyone think Lucius may have been a little annoyed/offended that LV didn't grab him on the way out too? Surely he must have noticed the fact that Bella didn't wind up in Azkaban with him...Or do you think he was just happy not to be back with LV because he was likely crazy angry...?

Dude, you're so right! He's probably not going to come out of Azkaban unless a)Voldie will take him back or b)his family is in danger or c)his own life is in danger. It appears to me that Lucius goes where the gettin's good. That's to say, he goes where he feels he stands to gain the most.
That's exactly what I think about Lucius. Even Dumbledore hints that Lucius might be quite happy in Azkaban right now, safe from Voldys wrath.

I also see him turning against Voldemort if the choice was Voldy or his family. He would not go actively, but I am positive that he would try to seek protection through a deal, in order to protect his wife and son.
I never saw him very convinced of the whole Voldemort Cult, meaning the ideology of complete obedience towards another person. He is quite arrogant himself. He follows Voldy because he expects more power, and because the general views (racism) fits in well with his own.

Fascinating Comments! :tu:

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
I think Lucius is loyal to himself first and foremost and then his family and then Voldemort. He is very wrapped up in his own self importance - a huge snob in terms of both birth (blood-status) and wealth. He really beleives he is better than other people because he is a pure-blood and he has a lot of money. Money of course gives power and influence, You may not be able to buy happiness but you can buy pretty much anything else - including the Minister of magic! He has sided with Voldemort because he agrees with his pure-blood supremist agenda, and likes the fear he can induce in others by being associated with Voldemort. (Though it is not widely known he is a death eater I think that it is known in certain circles - e.g. I'm sure Borgin and Burkes know)

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
He knew it would open the Chamber of Secrets and release the monster within to kill Muggle born students. He must also have known that some sort of evil from the diary would possess the owner or he would have given it to Draco. He choose to give the diary to Ginny Weasley at this particular time to discredit her family and so stop Arthur Weasley's proposed bill from becoming law.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
No. As zgirnius said earlier Draco does not feel that he is loved unconditionally by his father, so does not have the self esteem that comes from this. Lucius expects his son to make him proud - if Draco fails in this than Lucius is cross with him. This is why I said Lucius is loyal fisrt and foremost to himself. He does not seem to have any affection for his son, but sees him as the heir who should live up to the Malfoy name and not let the family down. He buys Draco "the best" not because he loves his son, but because his pride will not allow him to do anything less. I do feel very sorry for Draco - he so desperately wants his father's approval, but not having it could be what saves him.

4.What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
Bella: As someone else said I think he sees Bella as a liability! She is fanatical and tends not to think things through (a Black trait?) Lucius is a plotter.
Arthur: I think he see Arthur as an embarassment - Arthur is a pure blood yet he makes friends with muggles. I think Lucius sees Arthur as betraying the wizarding world - hence the slur "blood traitor"
Dumbledore: Like Arthur I think he sees Dumbledore as an embarasment - but a powerful and dangerous embarasment. He wants him out of Hogwarts before he has the whole next generation of wizards loving muggles and muggleborns.
Narcissa: To me Narcissa is almost like a gangsters Moll. I think she was attracted to Lucius because he was rich powerful and they beleived in the same things. Unlike Bella though she'd rather do her nails than torture muggles. She does love Draco very much though and is very loyal to Lucius as shown at Spinner's End. I doubt Lucius would show such loyalty to her.
Snape: I think Snape may once have been Lucius's "lapdog" at school. However I think Snape grew out of htis a long time ago but maintains the association for his spying purposes - to get info on DE activities (Lucius seems to have a very big mouth) but also because Malfoy can provide him with protection in those circles and vouch for him in the way that Dumbledore does in the Order.
Harry Potter: Well - he obviously instructed Draco to make friends with Harry - was it because he though Hary might be a new Dark Lord, or was it to maintain his appearance as a respectable citizen? Since Dobby's release his hatred of Harry Potter has become very personal. I don't think he cares that he was the one that brought down Voldemort.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
No. As other have said it was like Haryr retrieving Slughorn's memory - he did not put as much effort in as he would have done had he been doing it for himself.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban?
I don't think he'll escape from Azkaban - I think he is quite happy there at the moment! He may be sprung - and be eternally ungrateful for it though!

7. What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Not really sure. He's for himself rather than Voldemort so it could be interesting. Especially if a "good but nasty" Snape is pulling his strings.

8. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
I don' think he will necessarily take revenge for his son as such - more he will take revenge that someone dared to do threaten his son. But again he will grovel to Voldemort's face and plot behind his back.

I agree that if you don't suffer repercussions for your bad actions you don't learn not to do them. Which would explain a lot of his character. I wonder whether he'll learn anything at all from being in Azkaban and finding he can't buy his way out? And finding that Voldemort doesn't intend to spring him? Voldemort's 2 favourites are both in his bad books. Wonder if Lucius will return to Voldemort if he can or lie low and see who is going to win?

I really don't think that Lucius has been one of Voldemort's favorites for a long time because of the way he lied to avoid going to Azkaban after the end of the first war. Bellatrix is a favorite because she is completely loyal to him. Lucius is loyal only to whoever will best serve his own interests. Serving Voldemort has never resulted in a good outcome for Lucius, so I would not be surprised if he switched sides.

I also see him turning against Voldemort if the choice was Voldy or his family. He would not go actively, but I am positive that he would try to seek protection through a deal, in order to protect his wife and son.
Yes, as much as Lucius is fairly self-serving, there comes a point where I think he'd put all that aside and aid his family. He puts his own family's blood above anyone else's and, as has been said, he's not going to voluntarily risk his heir on a cause he only supports half-heartedly.


I never saw him very convinced of the whole Voldemort Cult, meaning the ideology of complete obedience towards another person. He is quite arrogant himself. He follows Voldy because he expects more power, and because the general views (racism) fits in well with his own.
Totally! The idea of being a DE covers his dark tendencies, as well as provides him with a certain amount of luxury; that's to say, he can enjoy the subservience of lesser DE's.


Lucius expects his son to make him proud - if Draco fails in this than Lucius is cross with him. This is why I said Lucius is loyal fisrt and foremost to himself. He does not seem to have any affection for his son, but sees him as the heir who should live up to the Malfoy name and not let the family down. He buys Draco "the best" not because he loves his son, but because his pride will not allow him to do anything less. I do feel very sorry for Draco - he so desperately wants his father's approval, but not having it could be what saves him.
Interesting comment...haven't heard that one. It does make sense about him buying Draco 'the best' because it reflects positively upon himself. It also reinforces Lucius' theories of 'if it's a problem, throw money at it'. In that, I mean, if you're unhappy with the way something is going or could go, use your money to influence/bribe the situation. Maybe the money is what Lucius is using to substitute an actual *love*, in the most general sense, of his son. Not to say he doesn't love him, but Lucius doesn't strike me as overly emotional. He seems either smug or angry or crazed or sneering or seething etc...within a small range of emotion. I can't recall a time when we've heard he was genuinely happy. Satisfied, yes. Happy, no.

Is Lucius ever happy?


7. What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Not really sure. He's for himself rather than Voldemort so it could be interesting. Especially if a "good but nasty" Snape is pulling his strings.
Ooooooh! :wow: I like that! :tu:

I really don't think that Lucius has been one of Voldemort's favorites for a long time because of the way he lied to avoid going to Azkaban after the end of the first war. Bellatrix is a favorite because she is completely loyal to him. Lucius is loyal only to whoever will best serve his own interests. Serving Voldemort has never resulted in a good outcome for Lucius, so I would not be surprised if he switched sides.
I agree for the most part, except serving Voldie did help Lucius pre-Vapormort (never get to use that name often enough!). Lucius was able to secure a place of fear, power and influence, using his ties to the DE's and Voldie. When Voldie fell, Lucius pleaded Imperius and escaped relatively unscathed from the enslaught of DE hunting that ensued that grabbed Bellatrix. He got to continue enjoying all the 'pleasantries' that he had 'earned' without fear of having to disappear to LV's side. However, now that Voldie is back, I'm not sure (as you said) that serving him is in Lucius' best interest anymore.

And yeah, I could so see him switching sides but he'll probably earn Snape status (no one is sure whether they can trust him or not) if he does.

Is Lucius ever happy?



Wow, what an excellent question!!:clap: :clap:

I think you're probably right and Lucius is satisfied but doesn't really experience happiness. I can't see him doing the adoring new Daddy bit when Draco was born, just pleased that there was an heir. A rather Victorian father, Lucius.
I wonder what it would take to make him happy, or if he's capable of it at all?

I think you're probably right and Lucius is satisfied but doesn't really experience happiness. I can't see him doing the adoring new Daddy bit when Draco was born, just pleased that there was an heir. A rather Victorian father, Lucius.
I wonder what it would take to make him happy, or if he's capable of it at all?Very true. I guess he never got what is really important in life and so is indeed maybe satisfied, but never happy. He just doesn't know what happyness could be.

Very true. I guess he never got what is really important in life and so is indeed maybe satisfied, but never happy. He just doesn't know what happyness could be.
This is beginning to make me feel sorry for him - and I never thought I'd have any cause for sympathy with Lucius Malfoy!:lol:

This is beginning to make me feel sorry for him - and I never thought I'd have any cause for sympathy with Lucius Malfoy!:lol:

:lol: Yes, I suspect a great deal of smothering in his childhood:that's to say, he wasn't encourage to be an emotional person. "Emotions are weak" as it were. He is very tragic that way because I wonder if he isn't a terribly sad and lonely person way deep down (beneath the 'I'm just that awesome!' exterior)...
... Or perhaps I'm just giving him way too much credit on the chance there might be a *normal* person under that frosty shell! ;) :lol:

I have been thinking about the question of Malfoy's loyalty (to Voldemort or to his family?) and I think that he thought there would never be an issue. Perhaps he started to see that there might be an issue when Draco was a baby, but then Voldemort was defeated and Lucius believed him dead. Of course you are quite welcome to disagree with me on this one, but I think we can believe Snape's comments in Spinners' End when he says lots of DEs thought LV was dead and gone. Any fears of conflicting loyalties for Lucius vanished, he was back to just being for himself and his family. Voldemort was gone for 13 years - I think to Lucius his time as a Death Eater seemed like something fun he'd done in the past that wasn't really relevant any more. Lots of people said that they thought he planted the diary to make Voldemort come back, but I don't really think he wanted Voldemort back. He liked his influential position and he must have realised that with Voldemort back it was only a matter of time before he lost it, because someone was going to discover he is a DE. So now, suddenly, he realises he has two conflicting loyalties and he doesn't know what to do. He can't just pull out of being a DE, but he probably still cares about the Malfoy family name, at least...

I think to Lucius his time as a Death Eater seemed like something fun he'd done in the past that wasn't really relevant any more. Lots of people said that they thought he planted the diary to make Voldemort come back, but I don't really think he wanted Voldemort back. He liked his influential position and he must have realised that with Voldemort back it was only a matter of time before he lost it, because someone was going to discover he is a DE. I agree with you. He enjoyed his comfortable position, influences with the ministry, rich, respected, etc. I am quite sure that he was not too happy to see the Dark Mark coming back.

I also agree with you on the diary. He had no idea that this was a piece of soul, therefore he didn't know that it could make Voldy come back. He only wanted the Chamber to be opened and his archenemy Weasley drowned in misery. Thankfully Harry and Dobby :evil: were there to save the day

I agree with you. He enjoyed his comfortable position, influences with the ministry, rich, respected, etc. I am quite sure that he was not too happy to see the Dark Mark coming back.

I also agree with you on the diary. He had no idea that this was a piece of soul, therefore he didn't know that it could make Voldy come back. He only wanted the Chamber to be opened and his archenemy Weasley drowned in misery. Thankfully Harry and Dobby :evil: were there to save the day

Not really surprising that you mentioned it :D but good catch on Harry and Dobby stopping Lucius. It says a lot about Lucius if a naturally very devote and loyal house-elf betrays his trust and even puts up with painful punishment rather than serve his master loyally. Dobby isn't Kreacher, meaning he is not mad or has a twisted sense of loyalty. He knew what he was doing. Lucius treats him very badly and I think that this in a way symbolises the house-elf - wizard relationship and how it will end.

Lucius treats him very badly and I think that this in a way symbolises the house-elf - wizard relationship and how it will end.
That's a very good point and I fully agree. :D Without wanting to get too much into elf rights ;) , the way Lucius treats Dobby AND the way their slave-master relation ends, shows also how the bad things one does get's in the end back to one.

He mistreats Dobby and in the end he is punished for it. Dobby turns against him and so helps twarthing the plot Lucius had. (and in addition now his wife has to do the ironing herself :elaugh: I bet Narcissa was not amused :rotfl: )

He mistreats Dobby and in the end he is punished for it. Dobby turns against him and so helps twarthing the plot Lucius had. (and in addition now his wife has to do the ironing herself :elaugh: I bet Narcissa was not amused :rotfl: )
:rotfl: :rotfl: Can you see Narcissa doing the ironing? I'll bet she's glad Lucius is inside so she doesn't have to do his shirts!!

I find it odd that with Lucius turning so "respectable" after Voldemort's disappearance, that he joined the DEs in a bit of Muggle-torturing after the Quidditch World Cup. Why would he have risked what he'd built up to do that? And why did he run when Barty Jnr sent up the Dark Mark? He must have known his own Dark Mark was getting stronger, which could only mean Voldemort was coming back.

I find it odd that with Lucius turning so "respectable" after Voldemort's disappearance, that he joined the DEs in a bit of Muggle-torturing after the Quidditch World Cup. Why would he have risked what he'd built up to do that? And why did he run when Barty Jnr sent up the Dark Mark? He must have known his own Dark Mark was getting stronger, which could only mean Voldemort was coming back.

I think Lucius organised the Death Eater attack at the World Cup in order to prove his loyalty to Voldemort. He had to since he had never done anything to find Vapormort. Lucius is cunning and intelligent, he knew that Voldemort was gaining power. Torturing a few Muggles did not help Voldemort but it shows an alleged loyalty. This leads us to an important point. Lucius left when he saw the Dark Mark because bringing Voldemort back into power was the last thing he ever wanted.

"Lucius, my slippery friend," he whispered, halting before him. "I am told you have not renounced the old ways, though to the world you show a respectable face. You are still ready to take the lead in a spot of Muggle-torture, I believe? Yet you never tried to find me Lucius... your exploits at the Quidditch World Cup were fun I daresay... but might not your energies have been better directed towards finding and aiding your Master?"
"My Lord, I was constantly on the alert," came Lucius Malfoy's voice swiftly from beneath the hood. "Had there been any sign from you, any whisper of your whereabouts, I would have been at your side immediately, nothing could have prevented me-"
"And yet you ran from my Mark when a faithful Death Eater sent it into the sky last summer?" said Voldemort lazily and Mr Malfoy stopped talking abruptly.
I think Voldemort hits the nail on the head when he calls Lucius slippery. He always tries to weasel his way into looking good. But Voldemort knows he ran from the Dark Mark rather than towards it which as a good supporter he should have done.

No, Lucius really didn't want Voldemort back, did he? Without Voldemort he was a powerful, rich and influential man, not just a slave to do his master's bidding.

I have to say I like Lucius as a character much more than Bellatrix. He seems to be, if my theories are correct, the truly evil version of Snape. He has a similar sneer to him.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I don't think there is much of a question after the events of Book 5.

Also, notice that even though Lucius has unwittingly destroyed a part of his master's soul, showed a genuine disbelief in Voldemort being alive, failed to retrieve the Prophecy, Lucius still seems to be in Voldemort's inner circle.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

We already know the answer to this question...or do we? Personally, I'm inclined to think he knew as much as Dumbledore thought: Voldemort told him it could open the Chamber of Secrets, but nothing else.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

He certainly seems to have trouble restraining Draco, yet Draco is apparantly very close to his parents and was furious when Harry landed Lucius in Azkaban. He's a bit in between.

What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

He has a respectful colleague's relationship with Bellatrix, I'd say. Their relationship may have suffered a bit after she found out Lucius thought Voldemort was dead. I say he despises Arthur the same way Draco despises Harry, for many of the same reasons. As for Draco, see above question. I'd say he absolutely hates but respects Dumbledore. Narcissa is a tricky question. It seems to be a marriage with love in it, as evidenced by Narcissa's emotional state at Spinner's End, but how this love is balanced is not really shown. He commands respect among other Death Eaters, but perhaps not as much after the Ministry fiasco. And I think Snape and him were good friends...there is plenty of evidence to support this, even Umbridge implies it. I'd say he despises Harry now...

Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

I've never quite been able to pinpoint why exactly he failed. I think his mistake was to dawdle too much to Harry about the prophecy at the start. This bought the DA some time to blow up the Hall of Prophecy, something which was crucial in the battle. The Death Eaters never quite recovered after this.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

Lucius is too compelling a villain not to play a role in Book 7. Azkaban is kind of a gong show right now.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

Now this is a good question. I can't see Lucius switching sides, no matter how hard I try, and yet I can't see him being indifferent about Voldemort's mentally sadistic punishment. I think Lucius will abandon any thoughts of revenge when he learns how far Draco got in on his mission to kill Dumbledore.

Now this is a good question. I can't see Lucius switching sides, no matter how hard I try, and yet I can't see him being indifferent about Voldemort's mentally sadistic punishment. I think Lucius will abandon any thoughts of revenge when he learns how far Draco got in on his mission to kill Dumbledore.

There has been some speculation that Draco's failure to follow through will cause Voldemort to be displeased with him. Snape, after all, was the one who killed Dumbledore, and the other Death Eaters present witnessed Draco's apparent hesitation. I think Lucius's reaction may depend on what Voldeort decided to do about Draco.

There has been some speculation that Draco's failure to follow through will cause Voldemort to be displeased with him. Snape, after all, was the one who killed Dumbledore, and the other Death Eaters present witnessed Draco's apparent hesitation. I think Lucius's reaction may depend on what Voldeort decided to do about Draco.

While I think Voldemort's reaction will affect how Lucius thinks of him, I'm not convinced that it will cause Lucius to do anything that he thinks might be risky to his own interest. Would Lucius do a Lily and die to save his son? I don't think he would.

Voldemort's "master plan" for Draco and Dumbledore has some loose ends.

If Voldemort, indeed, was wishing to get revenge on Lucius by indirectly causing Draco's death, why do it indirectly? He fully expected Draco to fail in his quest, and he expected him to die in the attempt as well. This is a very irresponsible and out of character move for Voldemort.

This is how I see Voldemort's plan:

1. Draco must smuggle several Death Eaters into Hogwarts and
2. Kill Dumbledore.

But if he fails in step # 2 or 1, or both, Snape is supposed to just kill Dumbledore and flee with Draco. In Snape's own words, Draco was not expected to succeed.

Mind you, though, Draco was probably the only way to kill Dumbledore without using Snape, and there lies the subtle brilliance of the plan.

1. He can't punish Lucius without breaking into Azkaban
2. Harry can't be killed without Dumbledore dying first

Two ideas that come together in one brilliant stroke of evil genius. A rare instance where Voldemort realizes there are much worse things than personal injury.

While I think Voldemort's reaction will affect how Lucius thinks of him, I'm not convinced that it will cause Lucius to do anything that he thinks might be risky to his own interest. Would Lucius do a Lily and die to save his son? I don't think he would.

Oh, neither do I. But would he pull a Karkaroff (I mean, make a bargain to betray Voldemort, not run away)? I think absolutely. I could see Lucius trading some valuable information to the Order (assuming he has some) in exchange for the sort of protection Dumbledore offered Draco.

:rotfl: :rotfl: Can you see Narcissa doing the ironing? I'll bet she's glad Lucius is inside so she doesn't have to do his shirts!!
Narcissa doesn't iron! As far as she's concerned, Lucius can iron his own shirts. After all, it's his doing that lost them their house elf! :lol:

I'd say he absolutely hates but respects Dumbledore.
Good call. Lucius definately doesn't like Dumbledore by any stretch of the imagination, but there's a certain amount of respect that comes from powerful people admiring other powerful peoples' work.


Narcissa is a tricky question. It seems to be a marriage with love in it, as evidenced by Narcissa's emotional state at Spinner's End, but how this love is balanced is not really shown. He commands respect among other Death Eaters, but perhaps not as much after the Ministry fiasco.
I think you've got the right idea for the Narcissa/Lucius relationship, although I think it extends into the way you say the DEs regard him. Lucius commands a certain amount of reverence and willingness to please from his family (as evidenced by the way he talks to Draco). I'm sure there's love for them but, as has been said, Lucius is very Victorian and from what (little!) I know of history, they weren't warm and fuzzy people.


Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Lucius is too compelling a villain not to play a role in Book 7. Azkaban is kind of a gong show right now.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, neither do I. But would he pull a Karkaroff (I mean, make a bargain to betray Voldemort, not run away)? I think absolutely. I could see Lucius trading some valuable information to the Order (assuming he has some) in exchange for the sort of protection Dumbledore offered Draco.
I could see him bartering his knowledge as well, although doing so begrudgingly. He doesn't want to give up his power and influence he has become so accustomed to but he doesn't want to die either. He's very much like LV, I feel, in that sense that, to them, there's not much (if anything!) worse than death. As horcrux4 quoted, Lucius is extremely slippery. He goes where the gettin's good, and if that means going over to the good side, he'll do it.
That being said, I don't think Lucius would run to save his own skin. He'll switch sides and bribe/trade information to/from people, but he doesn't strike me as a runner. True, he did run at the Quidditch World Cup, although I'm more convinced that was to avoid exposure of his own name as DE...imagine the scandel if he had been caught...?

Lucius is very Victorian and from what (little!) I know of history, they weren't warm and fuzzy people.

I think this is a very good description of Lucius and I think it applies to lots of his relationships. Dobby is treated with contempt and indifference - as some Victorian masters would treat their servants. Altough the rule of 'children should be seen and not heard' doesn't quite apply to Draco with his father, it is clear that Draco's contribution to a conversation is not always valued by his father. Look at the scene in CoS when Lucius and Draco are in Borgin and Burke's together, but I haven't got my book so I can't quote it, sorry. He thinks people of other races are inferior to him and teaches Draco to think the same way. His relationship with Narcissa also seems to follow this, although we haven't heard him talk about her so we just have to guess what his feelings for her are. He defered to her judgement on the choice of school for Draco, but it was often the mother's duty to arrange at least the early education of her children.

Whether Lucius's attitudes are brought to the present in the final book remains to be seen, but I think it is likely that he won't change much. Draco is still young and his experiences in the war against Voldemort might bee enough to change his views, but I really can't see Lucius changing enough to treat muggles and house elves fairly....

To be honest, I think that Lucius won't survive the war - lots of people are going to be killed and I don't think Voldemort's going to try to save Lucius if one of the other Death Eaters decides Lucius is a liability...

To be honest, I think that Lucius won't survive the war - lots of people are going to be killed and I don't think Voldemort's going to try to save Lucius if one of the other Death Eaters decides Lucius is a liability...

Well, that's interesting! I always thought that Lucius, Machiavellian character that he is, will find a way. He is one of those people who can switch sides and still be on top of the social ladder. Right now he is in Azkaban but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at the end of book seven. He is a very real character, in that he demonstrates that corruption often pays off.

Right now he is in Azkaban but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at the end of book seven.

I certainly agree with the comment about Azkaban - Lucius isn't finished yet! I suppose my comment about Lucius dying isn't really based on anything in the books, I just feel that payback time is coming for Mr Malfoy... but of course it is entirely possible that he will slip his way out of everything, as he has done many times before...

I certainly agree with the comment about Azkaban - Lucius isn't finished yet! I suppose my comment about Lucius dying isn't really based on anything in the books, I just feel that payback time is coming for Mr Malfoy... but of course it is entirely possible that he will slip his way out of everything, as he has done many times before...

Yes, I can't see Lucius letting himself get killed if he can see a way round it. And he might make a push to save Draco for the sake of the family line, but not at the risk of his own neck. Machiavellian is a splendid description of him! :clap: He's a schemer rather than a man of action although he'll get in on action if he thinks he'll be safe. Which is probably why Voldemort put him in charge of the Prophecy hunt - Bella is too much action and not enough thought.

He's a schemer rather than a man of action although he'll get in on action if he thinks he'll be safe. Which is probably why Voldemort put him in charge of the Prophecy hunt - Bella is too much action and not enough thought.
In total agreement with all for Machiavellian Lucius! :tu: I know it's a little off topic, but that could be what was key to Lucius' and Bella's relationship: she's a doer, he's a thinker and never the twain shall meet. I think it was suggested above that their relationship isn't terribly friendly but that would support one of, perhaps even open, hostility. The way they talk to one another in the DoM in OotP,although that could be Lucius simply going on another power trip, coupled with the assertation of Bella-the-doer, does suggest that maybe things aren't that rosy for the two of them. As well, there's that little matter of Bella attempting a slam at Lucius in Spinner's End...

Also, put me down for the 'Lucius Will Live' party. As much as it would be nice to see a little comeuppance for his mannerisms in the past, I don't think he'll get nearly as much as he deserves. He'll survive purely out of spite! :lol: Seriously though, he really hasn't done enough (as far as I can think) to merit him dieing. Yes, there was that issue at the Quidditch World Cup and yes, he was horrible to Dobby...but Dobby sort of got his revenge end of book 2 and Barty Crouch Jr. took the fall for the QWC. What has Lucius left to atone for (specifically, not so much his general attitude)? Whereas, say, Bellatrix is dead (in my books) because she has to atone for her torture of Neville's parents...

I agree with the earlier suggestion that it would be cool if Malfoy survived because of corruption-it would be a realistic touch. The thing I would most hold against him is his involvement with the Diary. It was just luck than noone was killed by the Basilisk, that time around.

Well, that's interesting! I always thought that Lucius, Machiavellian character that he is, will find a way. He is one of those people who can switch sides and still be on top of the social ladder. Right now he is in Azkaban but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at the end of book seven. He is a very real character, in that he demonstrates that corruption often pays off.

I agree with those points when they are seen as if Lucius was in trouble with the MoM but here we have Lucius Malfoy who is in trouble with Voldemort and here no corruption will pay off, I mean he can't escape the wrath of Voldemort by jesting ignorance of the mistake he has committed. He will have to pay for it.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

I don't think that Lucius is the best father. It seams to me that he wants Draco to do good because that will make him and his family look good. He seam to be really bossy and maybe even abusive. I am a huge fan of the Malfoys, but I wouldn't want Lucius as a father.

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I think LouisaB nailed it:
I think that for the most part these are not mutually exclusive and that he can be loyal to the both of them. I think that only book seven will tell us one way or the other where his loyalties really lie. I think that it may lie with his family.
When Lucius sided with LV during the First War I doubt he perceived any threat towards his family. There was no need to make a choice between loyalty to LV and the safety of his family. Supporting LV and gaining power for the Malfoy family coincided nicely.

I also agree that ultimately Lucius's loyality will (if tested) lie with his family. Lucius seems to care more about his own prestige and position and that of his family than LV's fanatic desire to kill muggles. Lucius isn't a geonocidal maniac - he's an elitist who likes to have people to stomp on and act snooty towards. In the First War, LV and his ideals were a means to an end for Lucius: a way to get more power. IMHO Lucius is only loyal to LV in the Second War because of fear.


3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

No. He treats Draco like an extension of himself, and expects Draco to embody everything Lucius thinks is important. Granted, a lot of parents fall into this trap - but Lucius takes it too far. Not to mention the things he thinks are important aren't the greatest values: elitism, racism, cruelty, etc.

I think that deep down he does love Draco. But that love is buried beneath layers of...well...not very loving treatment of his kid.

The Borgin and Burkes scene in CoS has always stuck with me. I really felt for Draco for there first time. I wish it hadn't been cut from the CoS film. Lucius is really awful to his son. Some of this snippets that stand out with me:'Can I have that?' interrupted Draco, pointing at the withered hand on its cushion.
'Ah, the Hand of Glory!' said Mr Borgin, abandoning Mr Malfoy's list and scurrying over to Draco. 'Insert a candle and it gives light only to the holder! Best friend of thieves and plunderers. Your son has fine taste, sir.'
'I hope my son will amount to more than a thief or a plunderer, Borgin,' said Mr Malfoy coldly and Mr Borgin said quickly, 'No offense, sir, no offense meant - '
'Though if his school marks don't pick up,' said Mr Malfoy, more coldly still, 'that may indeed be all he is fit for.'
'It's not my fault,' retorted Draco. 'The teachers all have favorites, that Hermione Granger - '
'I would have thought you'd be ashamed that a girl of no wizard family beat you in every exam,' snapped Mr Malfoy.IMHO that was pretty nasty of Lucius to blast Draco about grades and insult him in front of someone else. BTW what was he doing bringing Draco into B&B's anyway? That's a pretty dodgy place to bring your kid, especially if you're getting suspicious about the MoM breathing down your neck - who's to say Draco won't blab to his pals at school?

All right, I need to move on from this question, but, one last point: Does Lucius remind any one else of Norman Osborn (aka the Green Goblin from Spiderman)? The way he hammers at Draco reminds me a lot of how Norman always treated Harry. And look how that turned out....

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
I hope he escapes. I'd like to see him faced with the choice of what to do if he gets out of Azkaban: rejoin the DEs, make a run for it, help Draco get away, fight against LV? Honestly I really don't know what he would choose. But I'd love to see him make one instead of chilling in Azkaban.

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
No. I think Lucius will try to help Draco if possible. But I think he's too afraid and cowardly to attempt revenge.

IMHO that was pretty nasty of Lucius to blast Draco about grades and insult him in front of someone else. BTW what was he doing bringing Draco into B&B's anyway? That's a pretty dodgy place to bring your kid, especially if you're getting suspicious about the MoM breathing down your neck - who's to say Draco won't blab to his pals at school?
Oh, I think Lucius knows Draco is going to say a certain amount to his cronies at school but perhaps because Lucius knows Draco's followers have DE parents themselves, he's not worried. I imagine plenty of the DEs have/had dark objects in their possession that would be incriminating.

As far as bringing Draco into B&B, Lucius doesn't seem to hide many things from his son. On the contrary, he tells Draco quite a bit, IMHO. He told him about the GoF, about the CoS, about Sirius being an Animagus...Draco knows quite a bit really. It likely never occured to Lucius that it wasn't a 'kid friendly' place because Draco has probably been exposed to those things, and much worse, since he was very small.

Marks question: it's another illustration of just how much Lucius expects from his son and how much he dislikes non-purebloods. The idea his sons grades are poor is a sore spot for him but the fact that Draco is behind a muggle-born (gasp!) marks-wise, must make him more aggravated than simply the grades alone because how can a muggle-born upstage a pure-blood?!?! Oh the horror...! :lol:


All right, I need to move on from this question, but, one last point: Does Lucius remind any one else of Norman Osborn (aka the Green Goblin from Spiderman)? The way he hammers at Draco reminds me a lot of how Norman always treated Harry. And look how that turned out....
Good call! :tu: They feel their son's performances are a direct comment on themselves.


7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
No. I think Lucius will try to help Draco if possible. But I think he's too afraid and cowardly to attempt revenge.
Hmmm, Lucius is a lot of unpleasant things but I'm not sure 'coward' is a word I'd use to describe him. Opportunist? Yes. Shyster? Yes. But the way I'm reading the post, coward seems a little heavy-handed. I could be way off base here, and I do agree he may not attempt revenge on LV because of the ramifications sure to ensue, but he doesn't strike me as cowardly. Peter Pettigrew strikes me as cowardly. IMHO!

Talk amongst y'selves! ;)

I agree with those points when they are seen as if Lucius was in trouble with the MoM but here we have Lucius Malfoy who is in trouble with Voldemort and here no corruption will pay off, I mean he can't escape the wrath of Voldemort by jesting ignorance of the mistake he has committed. He will have to pay for it.

Not if he stays safe in Azkaban and Harry gets to Voldemort first!

Which leads me to wonder how he will treat Harry if he does stay in Azkaban till it's all over and Harry emerges a hero. (Alive, that's to say!!) I bet Lucius would find a way to get back in favour without losing face.

Hmmm, Lucius is a lot of unpleasant things but I'm not sure 'coward' is a word I'd use to describe him. Opportunist? Yes. Shyster? Yes. But the way I'm reading the post, coward seems a little heavy-handed. I could be way off base here, and I do agree he may not attempt revenge on LV because of the ramifications sure to ensue, but he doesn't strike me as cowardly. Peter Pettigrew strikes me as cowardly. IMHO!
Yeah, cowardly is probably too strong a word there...he's more...cautious. I agree he's nothing like Peter. I think there are things he would stand up for (personal honor, perhaps, or family); but I think he's too cautious to go for revenge, unless it presented itself in an easy situation. I think he'd view revenge as more appropriate for Gryffindor hotheads.

Which leads me to wonder how he will treat Harry if he does stay in Azkaban till it's all over and Harry emerges a hero. (Alive, that's to say!!) I bet Lucius would find a way to get back in favour without losing face.

Well I think that he will say that he has got what he deserved and that he was mistaken and the same stuff that he had said the last time. But if truth be told I don't think he will change. :no:

As for Harry trusting him and forgiving him, Fat Chance because Harry is not as great as Dumbledore and therefore I don't think he will give Lucius a second chance. ;)

I think he'd view revenge as more appropriate for Gryffindor hotheads.

I would agree if the revenge took the form of open defiance of Voldmeort. A knife in the back, however, if the opportunity presents itself? That seems like it could be Lucius's style.

I would guess, for example, that Lucius threw his influence into the Buckbeak matter as a way to get revenge on the people who foiled his plot in CoS. Nothing open, nothing that he couldn't excuse with a different motivation (poor ickle Draco getting hurt), but I think revenge was a factor.

A knife in the back, however, if the opportunity presents itself? That seems like it could be Lucius's style.

I agree with this, and the comment by owlpostgirl about Lucius being cautious rather than cowardly. I think that Lucius embodies Slytherin characteristics very well - he never does anything unless he can see what's in it for him.

When Lucius sided with LV during the First War I doubt he perceived any threat towards his family. There was no need to make a choice between loyalty to LV and the safety of his family. Supporting LV and gaining power for the Malfoy family coincided nicely.

I really agree with this, as I think I said earlier, there was never an issue in the first war between his family and loyalty to Voldemort. Now, however, I think the might be an issue and I think he would probably choose his family I'm not so sure. Narcissa we know about, but Lucius?

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

No. He treats Draco like an extension of himself, and expects Draco to embody everything Lucius thinks is important. Granted, a lot of parents fall into this trap - but Lucius takes it too far.

I agree with this one, Lucius doesn't treat Draco as the child he is. He might be very disappointed by Draco's failure to kill DD because I think that Lucius judges Draco by his own 'achievements', and it seems very likely that Lucius has killed...
Mrs Weasley critisizes Sirius for treating Harry like James, but I think that Lucius is far more guilty of this than Sirius was.

Originally posted by mysterious
I agree with those points when they are seen as if Lucius was in trouble with the MoM but here we have Lucius Malfoy who is in trouble with Voldemort and here no corruption will pay off, I mean he can't escape the wrath of Voldemort by jesting ignorance of the mistake he has committed. He will have to pay for it.

This was why I made the comment about Lucius dying in the first place - I don't think Voldemort is going to be very happy with him. It all depends on how Voldemort and Lucius react to Draco, and I think that this is very hard to guess. Does anyone think Voldemort might not be angry with Draco, given that DD is dead, and what do you think about Lucius' reaction? Would Lucius punish/want to punish Draco for his failure? Even disown Draco??

Which leads me to wonder how he will treat Harry if he does stay in Azkaban till it's all over and Harry emerges a hero. (Alive, that's to say!!) I bet Lucius would find a way to get back in favour without losing face.
That's sooo Lucius! And it would be a lot more realistic of JKR to have Lucius get out from under his self-imposed DE rock without too much hassle. As was said earlier, it's proof that not all the bad guys get what they deserve. And really, of the people who need to get their comeuppance, I don't think he's in my top 10!

Well I think that he will say that he has got what he deserved and that he was mistaken and the same stuff that he had said the last time. But if truth be told I don't think he will change. :no:
Yes, I agree, he won't change. He may tell another tale of trickery and Imperius curses but underneath it all, he's still that schemer and opportunist he always was.


As for Harry trusting him and forgiving him, Fat Chance because Harry is not as great as Dumbledore and therefore I don't think he will give Lucius a second chance. ;)
For sure! Lucius is dead in Harry's books. If Harry didn't hate him because of the fact he is/was a DE, Harry must surely hate him for his treatment of the Weasleys and his use of the Diary Horcrux in CoS.


I would guess, for example, that Lucius threw his influence into the Buckbeak matter as a way to get revenge on the people who foiled his plot in CoS. Nothing open, nothing that he couldn't excuse with a different motivation (poor ickle Draco getting hurt), but I think revenge was a factor.
Yes, I imagine Lucius being huge on revenge and you're so right, using Draco as his excuse provided the perfect cover. A knife in the back seems very apt for him, as it enables him to get what he wants without really needing to dirty his hands with the semantics of open defiance.


I agree with this one, Lucius doesn't treat Draco as the child he is. He might be very disappointed by Draco's failure to kill DD because I think that Lucius judges Draco by his own 'achievements', and it seems very likely that Lucius has killed...
Mrs Weasley critisizes Sirius for treating Harry like James, but I think that Lucius is far more guilty of this than Sirius was.
With Lucius, I don't think treating Draco like an adult was as much about having a friend or partner in crime like it was with Sirius; I put it more towards Draco growing into a reflection of himself (Lucius) and reflecting *positively* on the Malfoy name. But you're right; Lucius is definately more guilty of putting Draco in potentially hazardous positions than Sirius.

Lucius has most likely killed but I don't see him getting the same pleasure out of it that the other DE's might. He strikes me as the one who orders the killing,watches it happen, and enjoys it from the spectator status. He likes the power of ordering the killing (more power!) than actually being the one to do it... It's almost beneath him...:whistle:



Does anyone think Voldemort might not be angry with Draco, given that DD is dead, and what do you think about Lucius' reaction? Would Lucius punish/want to punish Draco for his failure? Even disown Draco??
Oh, I think LV will undoubtedly be mad at Draco but perhaps less so, just because as you said, the job got done anyway. Nonetheless, Lucius will still want to punish Draco for the fact he couldn't come through for the cause. I think Lucius has very demanding and exacting expectations of Draco and when Draco can't pull through, he's punished. However, I don't think disowning Draco follows Lucius' character. He wants Draco to acknowledge that he disappointed his father, his family, and himself, and to grow stronger out of it. Almost in a tough-love sort of way. Besides, if Lucius disowns Draco, there is no Malfoy heir and I don't think Lucius wants that...just because it's tough to make another heir if he's in the slammer! :lol:

Lucius has most likely killed but I don't see him getting the same pleasure out of it that the other DE's might. He strikes me as the one who orders the killing,watches it happen, and enjoys it from the spectator status. He likes the power of ordering the killing (more power!) than actually being the one to do it... It's almost beneath him...:whistle:

I agree with you here - Lucius, like Snape, wants power, that much is obvious from his behaviour at the Ministry, he likes being in with the right people and the power and influence associated with that. I just think that Lucius will do what it takes to get power, and I think it very likely that to become and influential DE, you have to kill. Draco had to prove himself to Lord Voldemort and I think Lucius would have had to when he first became a Death Eater. I agree that disowning Draco without another 'Malfoy heir' is probably a bit drastic, but what if he escaped from Azkaban and got another heir (at least one on the way) and Draco went to the Order for protection?

I think that Lucius' relationship with Draco is a complicated one, and needs a lot of thinking about. High expectations for your child/children can be good and bad, it sets a standard for them and encourages them to work, but if the expectations are too high it can discourage them as they think that however hard they work they will never do well enough. I think Neville is a good example of someone who has impossible expectations to live up to. I also think that Lucius gave Draco little chance to be a child. It pleases children to be treated as adults, but if he is continually expected to behave as an adult he would find life difficult. Perhaps that explains Draco's bullying, but that is a discuission for another thread. I wonder how Lucius was treated as a child - is he copying his parents' methods or is he reacting to what he didn't like about their behaviour towards him? Or doesn't he even think about it at all?

I just think that Lucius will do what it takes to get power, and I think it very likely that to become and influential DE, you have to kill.
I agree that it's highly likely. I think the DEs are just like lots of gangs where the initiation is to kill someone. Nonetheless, I don't think Lucius has killed anyone in the last while, nor do I think he ever killed many people in the first place.


I agree that disowning Draco without another 'Malfoy heir' is probably a bit drastic, but what if he escaped from Azkaban and got another heir (at least one on the way) and Draco went to the Order for protection?
Hmmm, interesting proposition. I honestly don't know what then. On one hand I think Lucius would stick it out with the DEs as long as he could before going to the order under duress. On the other hand, I wonder if that wouldn't be like the final straw before Lucius would do something exceedingly drastic. Do you think Lucius would kill Draco if it came down to it? Like Lucius decides to disown Draco, Draco goes to the order and they wind up in a fight against one another? Or do you think that any shreds of true paternal love would somehow come through and they could reconcile/respect one anothers differences?


I also think that Lucius gave Draco little chance to be a child. It pleases children to be treated as adults, but if he is continually expected to behave as an adult he would find life difficult. Perhaps that explains Draco's bullying, but that is a discuission for another thread. I wonder how Lucius was treated as a child - is he copying his parents' methods or is he reacting to what he didn't like about their behaviour towards him? Or doesn't he even think about it at all?
You're so right that children are pleased to be treated as adults and Draco does seem to revel in the fact that his father trusts him with so much information (again, the CoS, the GoF, Sirius the Animagus). But do you think that Lucius shares this information with Draco because he views Draco as an equal or because Lucius has some alterior motive? Like, I figure Lucius wants Draco to be a positive reflection of himself and the family name, but is letting Draco know so much really helping their relationship?

I'm sure Lucius is a product of his environment, just as I believe most children are. You repeat what you know. For some reason I picture Lucius' parents and relatives being as fanatical as the Blacks so it makes sense for him to parent the way he does. It's what he was brought up in and therefore he repeats it with his own son, especially seeing as how Draco looks so much like his dad (or, it could be argued, his mom because aren't Lucius and Narcissa supposed to have similar features? Only she's more feminine?). It's almost like Lucius is parenting himself as a child.
That being said, I don't think Lucius gives it concious thought. Again, he's repeating what he understands to be effective. "It worked on me, it'll work on him" as it were. For some reason I imagine Lucius' father being very hard on him, to the point of abuse possibly. I never considered Lucius abusive but I think it's a big step that he isn't. He's hard because he's become conditioned over time.

Yes/No?

I don't think Lucius has killed anyone in the last while, nor do I think he ever killed many people in the first place.

I agree, I can't remember who said Lucius is a thinker not a doer but I think it describes him very well. He gets more pleasure out of watching cruelty than actually doing it (as Bellatrix does)

Do you think Lucius would kill Draco if it came down to it? Like Lucius decides to disown Draco, Draco goes to the order and they wind up in a fight against one another? Or do you think that any shreds of true paternal love would somehow come through and they could reconcile/respect one anothers differences?

This is difficult and I think it is hard to see the answer. We know Narcissa really loves her son, but we don't know about Lucius. I think that he might realise he really does care about Draco as himself, but then again Mr Weasley seems to have abandoned Percy (not that I think he would kill Percy or anything but he doesn't seem to be letting him back into the family) and Mr Weasley behaves much better towards others than Lucius does, on the whole...

But do you think that Lucius shares this information with Draco because he views Draco as an equal or because Lucius has some alterior motive? Like, I figure Lucius wants Draco to be a positive reflection of himself and the family name, but is letting Draco know so much really helping their relationship?

I have been thinking about this too and I really don't know. Anyone else have any ideas?

I'm sure Lucius is a product of his environment, just as I believe most children are. You repeat what you know. For some reason I picture Lucius' parents and relatives being as fanatical as the Blacks so it makes sense for him to parent the way he does. It's what he was brought up in and therefore he repeats it with his own son, especially seeing as how Draco looks so much like his dad (or, it could be argued, his mom because aren't Lucius and Narcissa supposed to have similar features? Only she's more feminine?). It's almost like Lucius is parenting himself as a child.
That being said, I don't think Lucius gives it concious thought. Again, he's repeating what he understands to be effective. "It worked on me, it'll work on him" as it were. For some reason I imagine Lucius' father being very hard on him, to the point of abuse possibly. I never considered Lucius abusive but I think it's a big step that he isn't. He's hard because he's become conditioned over time.

Lucius doesn't seem as fanatical as Bellatrix towards Lord Voldemort, but Bellatrix seems to be more devoted than other Blacks, we just don't have any other examples. The Black family were pleased with Narcissa's marriage, which certainly suggests that the Malfoys had similar attitudes.
I agree that Lucius probably doesn't give it concious thought - my grandmother is always teasing my mother for saying things she used to get really annoyed when granny said them when she was a child! I agree it is encouraging that Lucius isn't abusive, but Draco has done everything he wants, practically, until now...

This is difficult and I think it is hard to see the answer. We know Narcissa really loves her son, but we don't know about Lucius. I think that he might realise he really does care about Draco as himself, but then again Mr Weasley seems to have abandoned Percy (not that I think he would kill Percy or anything but he doesn't seem to be letting him back into the family) and Mr Weasley behaves much better towards others than Lucius does, on the whole...
Good point with the Mr.Weasley/Percy scenario...My only thought on that would be that I think Mr.Weasley would accept Percy back into the family if Percy was willing to admit he was wrong/apologize to the family. I'm not sure Lucius would take Draco back if they were in place of the Weasleys. I almost wonder if Lucius would purposely say no to Draco, almost more like an 'I told you so'....


I agree that Lucius probably doesn't give it concious thought - my grandmother is always teasing my mother for saying things she used to get really annoyed when granny said them when she was a child! I agree it is encouraging that Lucius isn't abusive, but Draco has done everything he wants, practically, until now...
Hmm...Perhaps Lucius' reaction will depend on how LV reacts? Maybe if LV is really upset with Draco then Lucius will get really upset too and that could push them into a reverse Mr.Weasley/Percy (in that Lucius is the initiator, whereas Percy was the initiator within the Weasleys).
I can't see Lucius becoming abusive with Draco if he isn't already, but I do think it would make him more demanding than he already is (if that's possible! ;)). If Draco's not already in over his head with Lucius before, he is now...

Hmm...Perhaps Lucius' reaction will depend on how LV reacts? Maybe if LV is really upset with Draco then Lucius will get really upset too and that could push them into a reverse Mr.Weasley/Percy (in that Lucius is the initiator, whereas Percy was the initiator within the Weasleys).

I agree that it all depends on LV's reaction, the Malfoy family will be in big trouble if LV gets angrier still with them. To Lucius, abandoning Draco might be the only way to save them both, if you see what I mean. For himself, he would be much better to LV is he distanced himself from a son who did the wrong thing - after all LV never cared much for his family members, look at what he did to the Riddles. For Draco, Lucius might realise that a boy who hasn't killed anyone is far more likely to get protection from the Ministry/the Order that a man who led the DE attack on the Ministry the previous year, and is anyway stuck in Azkaban. Lucius might feel that if LV was really angry with Draco and Draco had been cast out by his family, Draco would be protected, and so he might do what he had to to protect them both even if it seems horrible to Draco.

Does anyone else think that Lucius might be a animagus and turn into a wasp? There are a couple of passages in which he is describes as talking in a waspish voice and there is also that wasp that was flying around during the O.W.L exam for History of Magic when Harry saw the vision of Sirius.

Just a thought.

Does anyone else think that Lucius might be a animagus and turn into a wasp? There are a couple of passages in which he is describes as talking in a waspish voice and there is also that wasp that was flying around during the O.W.L exam for History of Magic when Harry saw the vision of Sirius.

Maybe... I must admit a wasp isn't the first animal I'd think of to describe Lucius, and how would he have got from Hogwarts to the Ministry so quickly if he was in Harry's History of Magic exam? And the Ministry keeps records of Animaguses and I don't think there are lots of illegal ones running around, but he might be one of the other two 'known' ones (ie other than McGonagall).

Sorry to be so negative about the idea, I think it's quite a good one, I just can't think of anything that shows he might be...

how would he have got from Hogwarts to the Ministry so quickly if he was in Harry's History of Magic exam?Easy, fly to Hogsmead, turn back into a wizard, Apparate anywhere you like. Doesn't take that long with magic. Besides, the time between the dream and Harry finally arriving at the Ministry wasn't very quick at all. With the breaking into Umbridge's office, the capture, leading Umbridge into the forest, then flying on the thestrals. You call that quick?
Ministry keeps records of Animaguses and I don't think there are lots of illegal ones running around
Because Death Eaters always follow the law. :p I think there are a lot more illegal ones than legal ones. It wouldn't be a very good disguise if anyone could find out about it.

Easy, fly to Hogsmead, turn back into a wizard, Apparate anywhere you like. Doesn't take that long with magic. Besides, the time between the dream and Harry finally arriving at the Ministry wasn't very quick at all. With the breaking into Umbridge's office, the capture, leading Umbridge into the forest, then flying on the thestrals. You call that quick?

Because Death Eaters always follow the law. :p I think there are a lot more illegal ones than legal ones. It wouldn't be a very good disguise if anyone could find out about it.

I don't think that Lucius is an Animagus, simply because it takes a lot of effort to become one. Lucius isn't exactly known for being a hard worker. He doesn't have a real job and he inherited all his money. He did not have any reason to learn this particularly complex piece of magic.

I don't think that Lucius is an Animagus, simply because it takes a lot of effort to become one. Lucius isn't exactly known for being a hard worker. He doesn't have a real job and he inherited all his money. He did not have any reason to learn this particularly complex piece of magic.
Being in disguise is very useful for undercover work. Which is what Lucius has been doing. He works for Voldemort but appears to be a respectable member of society. Being able to sneak in and out of places as a wasp would be very benificial to Voldemort. Lucius is highly ambitious as many Slytherins are. If becoming an animagus would help him acheive his ends. He would put in the effort necessary. Slytherins will do anything to acheive their ends.:)

Being in disguise is very useful for undercover work. Which is what Lucius has been doing.

I just can't really see Lucius hiding as a wasp, he doesn't really seem the sort of person who makes a sercet of what he's doing - look at how he behaves in the Ministry at the start of OotP, he must know Mr Weasley's in the Order, or at least will tell DD things, yet he stands in the DoM corridor happily talking to Fudge. To me, he's the sort of person who gets away with things because he doesn't hide - he does things obviously and most people don't even suspect him.

he doesn't really seem the sort of person who makes a sercet of what he's doing:wow: So he would come right out and tell Fudge he is a Death Eater, huh. I don't think so. He is very secretive. He has a secret chamber in his house. He wasn't suspected before until after Voldemort's downfall.
look at how he behaves in the Ministry at the start of OotP, he must know Mr Weasley's in the Order, or at least will tell DD things, yet he stands in the DoM corridor happily talking to Fudge.Because Lucius knows that Mr. Weasley can't say a word otherwise he would reveal he is in league with Dumbledore. Which would have landed Arthur in prison.
To me, he's the sort of person who gets away with things because he doesn't hide - he does things obviously and most people don't even suspect him.Lucius gets away with things because Lucius being aware of the situation knows what he can get away with, not because he is obvious about it. The situation at that time was Fudge was after anyone in league with Dumbledore. And anyone claiming him a Death Eater would only have Dumbledore and Harry as their source. As long as Fudge is against Dumbledore and Harry, it was perfectly safe for Lucius to appear at the Ministry. And it give the Order something additional to worry about. Voldemort wants many distractions for the Order so he has a better chance of completing his plans. Lucius being seen by the order helps create distractions without putting Lucius in danger of being discovered.

You know, I've lately wondered what was going through Lucius's mind at the graveyard scene in GoF. He's not a sympathetic individual, I know, tends to despise Harry, and is not the nicest father to Draco.

But I wonder if he felt kinda...bad...about what LV did to Harry (and tried to do). Harry is the same age as Draco: did it at all bother him to see LV force a 14-year-old to duel to the death with him?

did it at all bother him to see LV force a 14-year-old to duel to the death with him?

I don't think so. :p. On the contrary I think he was rather Happy with the suffering of Harry, because it was because of Harry that he had lost his post of Governor, then it was because of Harry he lost his faithful servant (Dobby) and then it was because of Harry that Draco always got in so much trouble. ;)

Moreover I think he was personally praying that Voldemort gives them the chance to teach Harry a lesson so that he could vent out his anger and frustration. :)

Being in disguise is very useful for undercover work. Which is what Lucius has been doing. He works for Voldemort but appears to be a respectable member of society. Being able to sneak in and out of places as a wasp would be very benificial to Voldemort. Lucius is highly ambitious as many Slytherins are. If becoming an animagus would help him acheive his ends. He would put in the effort necessary. Slytherins will do anything to acheive their ends.:)

Lucius, however, is not a spy like Snape. Lucius is rich and influential and that's not due to Voldemort. He remained rich and powerful after Godric's Hollow. Besides, the wizard cannot choose what animal he will change into, so if Lucius had become a huge bear this would have been more hindering than helpful. ;)

But I wonder if he felt kinda...bad...about what LV did to Harry (and tried to do). Harry is the same age as Draco: did it at all bother him to see LV force a 14-year-old to duel to the death with him?

I'm not sure. I have never seen any type of sympathetic qualities in Lucius. I have yet to see his vulnerabilites. I saw them in Narcissa when it came to Draco, but I have yet to see any of that in Lucius.

Lucius, however, is not a spy like Snape. Lucius is rich and influential and that's not due to Voldemort. He remained rich and powerful after Godric's Hollow. Besides, the wizard cannot choose what animal he will change into, so if Lucius had become a huge bear this would have been more hindering than helpful. ;)

I agree, and I don't think Lucius is the sort of person who would be a spy anyway. I think if Lucius was an animagus he would become something big (a polar bear maybe? Just a thought). And Voldemort doesn't really need more spies, he thinks, at any rate, he has Snape, and he has Wormtail to turn into something small and sneak up on people. Now if someone suggested Wormtail has been watching people in the Order, I would agree, but this thread is about Lucius, not Wormtail.

Had a thought.

Lucius knew Voldemort was Tom Riddle - he had Riddle's diary after all and Dobby knew Voldemort was Riddle. Did Lucius know Riddle was a half-blood? If he did, would this have reduced his respect for Voldy? Is that why he didn't bother to find him after he was vapourised?

Lucius knew Voldemort was Tom Riddle - he had Riddle's diary after all and Dobby knew Voldemort was Riddle. Did Lucius know Riddle was a half-blood? If he did, would this have reduced his respect for Voldy? Is that why he didn't bother to find him after he was vapourised?

Looking at Bella's and other Death Eater's reaction in Ootp, when Harry told them that Voldemort was a half-blood, it looks like they weren't fully sure about the blood status of Voldemort, but since it is not clear as to why Bella swore at Harry (she might be swearing at him because he said that Tom was a half-blood or because he said the name "Voldemort") when he said it therefore it might be a possibility. ;)

Lucius knew Voldemort was Tom Riddle - he had Riddle's diary after all and Dobby knew Voldemort was Riddle. Did Lucius know Riddle was a half-blood? If he did, would this have reduced his respect for Voldy? Is that why he didn't bother to find him after he was vapourised?
That's a good point. I think it definately could have reduced his respect somewhat. Although I think the main reason he abandoned LV was because he wasn't particularly loyal in the first place. I think Lucius's loyalty only extended as far as it benefitted him; once LV was gone it was in Lucius's best interests at the the time to shift his loyalty back to the MoM.

I think the main reason he abandoned LV was because he wasn't particularly loyal in the first place. I think Lucius's loyalty only extended as far as it benefitted him; once LV was gone it was in Lucius's best interests at the the time to shift his loyalty back to the MoM.
I agree he wasn't particularly loyal, I get the impression it was all a bit of a game to him the first time. The chance to have fun getting rid of muggles and muggleborns who he had been brought up to think the scum of the earth,
and a bit more power for him aswell. Once Voldemort had disappeared, there was no power to be had from being a DE, only prison, so he shifted his attention to the MoM where he could get some power and control again.

About his reaction to Tom Riddle being a halfblood, I don't think he is as disapproving of halfbloods as he is of muggles and muggleborn witches/wizards. Draco insults Hermione and insults Lily, but doesn't tend to refer to Harry's halfblood status directly. That could be just that they haven't thought of a name to call them yet, though...

I agree he wasn't particularly loyal, I get the impression it was all a bit of a game to him the first time. The chance to have fun getting rid of muggles and muggleborns who he had been brought up to think the scum of the earth,
and a bit more power for him aswell. Once Voldemort had disappeared, there was no power to be had from being a DE, only prison, so he shifted his attention to the MoM where he could get some power and control again.

About his reaction to Tom Riddle being a halfblood, I don't think he is as disapproving of halfbloods as he is of muggles and muggleborn witches/wizards. Draco insults Hermione and insults Lily, but doesn't tend to refer to Harry's halfblood status directly. That could be just that they haven't thought of a name to call them yet, though...

Give them time, give them time...............:D

Lucius seems to place great emphasis on pure-bloodedness though which is why i thought he might not respect Voldemort so much as Tom Riddle. However, I do think that he didn't look for Voldy when he was Vapormort because he couldn't see what was in it for him. Very self-centred is our Lucius.

Very self-centred is our Lucius.

Well we can say that for almost all the death eaters. Since most have a personal reason to join Voldemort therefore this can be attributed as a general characteristic of all the Death Eaters. ;)

I agree, and I don't think Lucius is the sort of person who would be a spy anyway. I think if Lucius was an animagus he would become something big (a polar bear maybe? Just a thought).
Quick comment about the wasp thought..I kind of figured his voice was waspish in the WASP way, (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). I think Lucius fits Wikipedia's definition of a WASP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP)fairly well....But back to the current topic...


Lucius seems to place great emphasis on pure-bloodedness though which is why i thought he might not respect Voldemort so much as Tom Riddle. However, I do think that he didn't look for Voldy when he was Vapormort because he couldn't see what was in it for him. Very self-centred is our Lucius.
Much agreement. If looking for Vapormort didn't appear to be in his best interest at the time, he wouldn't do it.

As for respecting Tom Riddle...yeah, as a *normal wizard*, he really is just another muggle-born (which we know Lucius despises) but as Voldemort, he's got this dark mystique and powerful aura about him that, despite his parentage, still winds up being very alluring. The notion of power does funny things to people...

Quick comment about the wasp thought..I kind of figured his voice was waspish in the WASP way, (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). I think Lucius fits Wikipedia's definition of a WASP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP)fairly well....But back to the current topic...

That term mainly applies to Americans though. ;) Lucius can be more easily defined as a member of the magical aristocracy.

That term mainly applies to Americans though. ;) Lucius can be more easily defined as a member of the magical aristocracy.

I hadn't thought of aristocratic as a way to describe Lucius but it's a good expression. As the wizard world seems to be a bit behind the times, he'd be a Victorian aristocrat, believing that lesser people didn't have real feelings and only lived to do his bidding.

I wonder what he'd have been like if he'd not been born rich? What job would he have done? He's obviously pretty intelligent.

I hadn't thought of aristocratic as a way to describe Lucius but it's a good expression. As the wizard world seems to be a bit behind the times, he'd be a Victorian aristocrat, believing that lesser people didn't have real feelings and only lived to do his bidding.
Yeah. From his method of parenting to his choice of dress, he's a pretty good example of an old-money-Victorian-era father.


I wonder what he'd have been like if he'd not been born rich? What job would he have done? He's obviously pretty intelligent.

It's funny because, as I'm such a believer in the nurture option of the nature vs nurture argument, I'm not sure he'd be the Lucius we see today. Darling Lucius we know and love(?) is well educated, reserved(for the most part) and wealthy(obviously...!;)). Without the cash, that is, not being born into wealth, I tend to think he'd be more like the Blacks, in that he'd still be a muggleborn/halfblood hater, but it'd be more like this cause is his bread and butter. Yes, they had money, but not as much as the Malfoys. I could see him being part of a truly crazy pureblood-fanatical family and having him wind up being more like Bella. I think what Bella lacks in high placed connections, she makes up for in pure zest for her cause. Lucius, on the other hand, can *afford* to be a little more calm in his efforts. Buying his time, pun intended.

I don't know about jobs. I have a really hard time picturing Lucius working! :lol: Anyone else get past the idea of Lucius being a working stiff?

I could see him being part of a truly crazy pureblood-fanatical family and having him wind up being more like Bella. I think what Bella lacks in high placed connections, she makes up for in pure zest for her cause. Lucius, on the other hand, can *afford* to be a little more calm in his efforts. Buying his time, pun intended.

We should however take into account that Lucius is male. In these traditional pure-blood families it seems to be normal that the wife is pretty decoration and nothing more. At least Narcissa plays that role in the public. Bella spent a major part of her life in prison, so it's understandable that she lacks the connexions Lucius has. The Malfoys are wealthy but I think that the Blacks did not have to work either. Lucius decided to deny his loyalties to Voldemort and stay out of prison because his well-being (and maybe his family's) is basically everything he believes in. I believe that Bella would be a fantatic regardless.

I wonder what he'd have been like if he'd not been born rich? What job would he have done?What an excellent question!
I think that Lucius without money might have been a bit like Slughorn. What ever career he chose, I'm sure he wouldn't have been a particularly hard worker, but would have made contacts. I could see him working at the ministry, being a yes man, making a bit of a name for himself without doing anything too taxing.

What an excellent question!
I think that Lucius without money might have been a bit like Slughorn. What ever career he chose, I'm sure he wouldn't have been a particularly hard worker, but would have made contacts. I could see him working at the ministry, being a yes man, making a bit of a name for himself without doing anything too taxing.

Yes. I was wondering if Lucius would have wound up at the Ministry too, where he could wield a bit of influence without, as you say, actually having to do much.

I am also interested in the nature v nurture debate with regard to Lucius. I'm inclined to think his snobbishness comes from being told all his life that he is superior to other beings. But then so was Morfin Gaunt and look at him! :lol: I suppose that's where you wind up when you believe no-one else is as good as you but you don't have the money to back it up. You cut yourself off from the inferior world. That doesn't seem to be Lucius' way - he much prefers to be in the public eye - I just can't decide whether that's because he's pure-blood or because he's rich.

I suppose that's where you wind up when you believe no-one else is as good as you but you don't have the money to back it up. You cut yourself off from the inferior world. That doesn't seem to be Lucius' way - he much prefers to be in the public eye - I just can't decide whether that's because he's pure-blood or because he's rich.

You've got a good point there. This is where I start making connections between him and *certain Hollywood starlets, cough* who are born in to their money and while they could just buy themselves an island and sit there, counting their wealth, they want to be in the spotlight. I think Lucius is honestly a bit(!) of a diva, in that he wants to be in the centre of the universe, showing everyone just how wonderful he and his family are. I think that was why he joined up with LV; it added another notch onto his already illustrious belt. He knew he was great and wants everyone else to know he's great too...the money talking I figure. The pureblood-status does probably add to things, but the cash flow enables him to put up ("...or shut up").

You've got a good point there. This is where I start making connections between him and *certain Hollywood starlets, cough* who are born in to their money and while they could just buy themselves an island and sit there, counting their wealth, they want to be in the spotlight. I think Lucius is honestly a bit(!) of a diva, in that he wants to be in the centre of the universe, showing everyone just how wonderful he and his family are. I think that was why he joined up with LV; it added another notch onto his already illustrious belt. He knew he was great and wants everyone else to know he's great too...the money talking I figure. The pureblood-status does probably add to things, but the cash flow enables him to put up ("...or shut up").

I agree with you. So we are saying that it's his money that has made him the man he is? If he'd been born poor he would have been pretty ordinary? (I think he has too much sense of style to sink to the Gaunt level).

Quick comment about the wasp thought..I kind of figured his voice was waspish in the WASP way, (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). I think Lucius fits Wikipedia's definition of a WASP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP)fairly well....
I admit that was my first reaction when I read the wasp animagus speculation. :lol: He does fit the stereotype.

He also reminds me of the type of 'old money' or 'old power' personality who resents the 'nouveau riche'. Lucius is probably used to the days when traditional pure-blood families had more weight in the wizarding world (he's made comments that implied this - or maybe it's just wishful thinking).

I am also interested in the nature v nurture debate with regard to Lucius. I'm inclined to think his snobbishness comes from being told all his life that he is superior to other beings. But then so was Morfin Gaunt and look at him! I suppose that's where you wind up when you believe no-one else is as good as you but you don't have the money to back it up. You cut yourself off from the inferior world. That doesn't seem to be Lucius' way - he much prefers to be in the public eye - I just can't decide whether that's because he's pure-blood or because he's rich.

This shows Lucius's fighting attitude, that he is not a person who gives up as easily as Morfin did. He is a fighter who inspite of all odds stands up and tries to regain his previous Royalty.

I agree with you. So we are saying that it's his money that has made him the man he is? If he'd been born poor he would have been pretty ordinary? (I think he has too much sense of style to sink to the Gaunt level).

I think so. He'd never be *ordinary*, in the lamest sense of the word, but he would be a little more quiet about how much he thinks of himself and his family. It's tough to scream about how much better you are than everyone else when pureblood status only counts with some people, whereas money counts everywhere.

You're so right, I don't think he'd ever quite get to the Gaunt level because he does have quite the sense of personal style. The Gaunts are a different breed of blood purist...:rolleyes:

I think so. He'd never be *ordinary*, in the lamest sense of the word, but he would be a little more quiet about how much he thinks of himself and his family. It's tough to scream about how much better you are than everyone else when pureblood status only counts with some people, whereas money counts everywhere.

You're so right, I don't think he'd ever quite get to the Gaunt level because he does have quite the sense of personal style. The Gaunts are a different breed of blood purist...:rolleyes:
I wonder how much of my perception of Lucius' style comes from Jason Isaac's performance of him though. So classy! I know we aren't discussing the films here but they do alter how we see a character. I think Jason plays it very close to the book, or at least I find it hard to see Lucius any other way now when I read the novels.

The Gaunts (who I don't think we have a thread for, though I may have missed it) seem to be showing the results of excessive inbreeding which the Malfoys don't, or at least not in that way. Lucius isn't insane, just cruel.

horcrux4: You beat me on both points!
Jason Isaacs is simply wonderful as Lucius Malfoy and like you I always see Lucius as he is portrayed by him.
We are currently listening to HBP on tape in the car, and we've just had that wonderful Pensieve meeting with the Gaunt family - it is emphasised that the Gaunts are very inbred - Dumbledore says they had a tradition of marrying their cousins. While I think that their must be a certain amount of inbreeding in the Malfoy family due to all pure-blood families being related, I don't think they marry such close relatives as cousins.

We are currently listening to HBP on tape in the car, and we've just had that wonderful Pensieve meeting with the Gaunt family - it is emphasised that the Gaunts are very inbred - Dumbledore says they had a tradition of marrying their cousins. While I think that their must be a certain amount of inbreeding in the Malfoy family due to all pure-blood families being related, I don't think they marry such close relatives as cousins.
No I don't think they intermarried so closely either. After all they don't have their "heir of Slytherin" line to keep pure, just no Muggle ancestry. I don't remember seeing any Malfoys other than Lucius on the Black tree but that's not to say that his parents & grandparents didn't marry closer relatives - they have a pretty small gene pool to pick from. But as Ron says some of the pureblood families must have Muggle blood in there somewhere or they'd have died out! I bet Lucius wouldn't admit that though.

I wonder how much of my perception of Lucius' style comes from Jason Isaac's performance of him though. So classy! I know we aren't discussing the films here but they do alter how we see a character. I think Jason plays it very close to the book, or at least I find it hard to see Lucius any other way now when I read the novels.
.

Dude, you're so right and I'm sooooo very guilty of making Lucius/Jason Isaacs the same person. I don't even remember original Lucius pre-Isaacs...:blush:

No I don't think they intermarried so closely either. After all they don't have their "heir of Slytherin" line to keep pure, just no Muggle ancestry. I don't remember seeing any Malfoys other than Lucius on the Black tree but that's not to say that his parents & grandparents didn't marry closer relatives - they have a pretty small gene pool to pick from. But as Ron says some of the pureblood families must have Muggle blood in there somewhere or they'd have died out! I bet Lucius wouldn't admit that though.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Poor Lucius, he's in total denial! But there is a fair point made there, about there needing to be *fresh blood* in the bloodline, just to keep things going. I agree that it's unlikely the Malfoys kept things asclose as the Gaunts did, in terms of in-breeding, but I think after 4 or 5 removals I think it's safe to marry/date family (for real!)

(Sidenote: I actually used to know 2 kids who were dating and they were 7th cousins. The concept was still creepy but from what we knew, because of how far away they are from each other on the family tree, it's, relatively speaking, safe....safer...)

Anyone have any ideas or notions of where the bloodline might be, for lack of a better term, tainted? Anyone think that Lucius might actually be mixed (and is over-compensating, LV style? Does he even know?) or is he pureblood and it's just his distant relatives that married muggles, distant cousins and so on...? Hmmm...

Talk amongst y'selves! ;)

Anyone think that Lucius might actually be mixed (and is over-compensating, LV style? Does he even know?) Hmmm. Now that IS an interesting idea! I'll have to think about that.

To add to the question of 'Is Lucius Really Not A Pureblood' (see my last post), here's another one...Did Lucius ever really like Snape?

Like, Sirius says that Snape was Lucius' lapdog so that in itself would lead me to think that, at least when they were kids, Lucius didn't see Snape as an equal, much the same way as Draco doesn't see Crabbe&Goyle as equals. (Then again, is there anyone equal to a Malfoy, in Lucius's eyes, other than another Malfoy? :lol:). On the other hand though, they probably have spent quite a bit of time together, Death-Eatering (yes, it's a verb!) and all. So would their relationship perhaps have evolved, especially seeing as Snape does seem to be as high up in the DEs as Lucius was, pre-Azkaban?

To add to the question of 'Is Lucius Really Not A Pureblood' (see my last post), here's another one...Did Lucius ever really like Snape?

Like, Sirius says that Snape was Lucius' lapdog so that in itself would lead me to think that, at least when they were kids, Lucius didn't see Snape as an equal, much the same way as Draco doesn't see Crabbe&Goyle as equals. (Then again, is there anyone equal to a Malfoy, in Lucius's eyes, other than another Malfoy? :lol:). On the other hand though, they probably have spent quite a bit of time together, Death-Eatering (yes, it's a verb!) and all. So would their relationship perhaps have evolved, especially seeing as Snape does seem to be as high up in the DEs as Lucius was, pre-Azkaban?
As kids Lucius wouldn't have seen Snape as an equal as Snape was younger by quite a bit. I don't think their "friendship" can date from Hogwarts. Presumably it came from Death-Eatering together although it's hard to see Lucius being very impressed with Snape then either. Snape didn't have all that long as a DE between leaving school and Voldy vanishing to impress the other DEs and I doubt that would have bothered him.

So yes, where does their relationship come from? Or is it just Draco saying "Oh my Dad knows Snape" to make himself more important when he got to Hogwarts? I don't see Lucius making friendly relationships with anyone really. He is such a self-important person that he gives the impression he knows people for how useful they'll be to him. And why would Snape be useful to him? Maybe to get Draco some preferential treatment which as a Malfoy Lucius probably thought he deserved!

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?I don't think he's loyal to Voldemort by choice. I believe that Lucius is more loyal to himself above all people. In the first few books, he did what he wanted, whenever he wanted for himself. He always got himself the best of things. I don't know what to think if Narcissa and Draco where in danger, he would save them. I think he'd be more upset about Narcissa personally, than Draco. He would see Draco being in danger as Draco's own fault, while othewise if Narcissa was in danger, he would think that Narcissa had done all she could and couldn't help herself out and he would be more worried about her in my opinion.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary? I doubt he knew what the importance of it was. I have a feeling he knew it had some sort of strong power. He just thought it would get rid of Harry and maybe a couple of Weasleys and he'd be done with them. Plus, he wouldn't be upset if it got rid of a few muggleborns either.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father? I don't think Lucius is a good father. He never really spends quality time with Draco and spoils him. Fathers like Arthur on the other hand have raised their children to be respectful and well-mannered of other people and they have been the ones that have been raised correctly. So, in my opinion, Lucius is not a good father. :no:

So yes, where does their relationship come from? Or is it just Draco saying "Oh my Dad knows Snape" to make himself more important when he got to Hogwarts? I don't see Lucius making friendly relationships with anyone really. He is such a self-important person that he gives the impression he knows people for how useful they'll be to him. And why would Snape be useful to him? Maybe to get Draco some preferential treatment which as a Malfoy Lucius probably thought he deserved!

You're probably pretty accurate with the assertation that any Lucius-Snape relationship was probably something out of convenience; like it was to Lucius (and Draco's) advantage to at least be on friendly terms with Snape. But then again, how does Snape benefit Lucius, as you said? Snape doesn't get Lucius better seats at Quidditch. He doesn't really help Lucius make money. I can't even see him being truly useful within the DEs pre-Azkaban.

So why? I suppose it does come down to Snape being an advantage to Draco. Likely, Lucius saw Snape at the DE HQ and said 'hey! You're my kids teacher!' and, in that, influenced Snape (who may still have been figuring out where he fit in within the DEs) to supply a little preferential treatment...

And, from all that, will it be to Lucius' advantage to try to be friendly with Snape if(or when...?) he gets out of Azkaban? I kind of think it will. Snape must be in LV's good books by now, so Snape may prove to be an asset to Lucius after all...:evil:

So why? I suppose it does come down to Snape being an advantage to Draco. Likely, Lucius saw Snape at the DE HQ and said 'hey! You're my kids teacher!' and, in that, influenced Snape (who may still have been figuring out where he fit in within the DEs) to supply a little preferential treatment...


Do you think the DEs met at a headquarters while Voldemort was a vapour? Because he didn't return till the end of Draco's 4th year at Hogwarts and Draco had been playing the "you're my favourite teacher" card for years by then. I get the impression they kept their heads down during that time.

So either Lucius got to know Snape in the few years he was a DE before Voldy's downfall (which seems unlikely as a) Snape was a half-blood and Lucius a keen pure-blood so he wouldn't have chosen to associate with him, b) Voldemort seemed to like to keep his DEs separate and c) Snape hadn't needed Lucius' help to get the Hogwarts job which was what Voldy had in mind for him) or Lucius didn't know Snape and Draco was the link between them.

Do you think the DEs met at a headquarters while Voldemort was a vapour? Because he didn't return till the end of Draco's 4th year at Hogwarts and Draco had been playing the "you're my favourite teacher" card for years by then. I get the impression they kept their heads down during that time.

So either Lucius got to know Snape in the few years he was a DE before Voldy's downfall (which seems unlikely as a) Snape was a half-blood and Lucius a keen pure-blood so he wouldn't have chosen to associate with him, b) Voldemort seemed to like to keep his DEs separate and c) Snape hadn't needed Lucius' help to get the Hogwarts job which was what Voldy had in mind for him) or Lucius didn't know Snape and Draco was the link between them.

Sirius said that Snape was Lucius' lapdog at Hogwarts. It is possible that Lucius was a seventh year when Snape came to Hogwarts. Impressed by Snape's knowledge of curses he may have let him hang out with his gang of Slytherins.

I don't think Lucius is a good father. He never really spends quality time with Draco and spoils him. Fathers like Arthur on the other hand have raised their children to be respectful and well-mannered of other people and they have been the ones that have been raised correctly. So, in my opinion, Lucius is not a good father
It has been mentioned before I think but if we look from the Malfoy point of view he is a good father. He educated Draco exactly in the values that are important for him, and Draco is like Lucius probably wanted him to be.
Also he probably cares for Draco, we see that he takes 'revenge' on Buckbeak for injuring him.
Lucius would not want to be like Mr Weasley. I can also imagine that it's important for him to provide his family a wealthy life with all comfort and luxury. Money and status is important for Lucius and he gives all this to his family.

Sirius said that Snape was Lucius' lapdog at Hogwarts. It is possible that Lucius was a seventh year when Snape came to Hogwarts. Impressed by Snape's knowledge of curses he may have let him hang out with his gang of Slytherins.

I agree. Though, the numbers Rowling has tossed out suggest Malfoy is a year or two closer in age to Snape than that.

Adult Malfoy is shown to be a master of Slughorn-style networking (with some bribes tossed in, being wealthy is always a fine thing). He is friendly with Minister Fudge, speaks highly of Snape to Dolores Umbridge, is a member of the Board of Governors, is a regular visitor at the Ministry, and so on.

I think Lucius the boy was a Slug Club member (he was in Slytherin so Sluggie would have known him, and he was the heir to what is apparently a fortune). There, I think he saw what Slughorn did, and saw its possible value to himself. I think it is in this spirit that Lucius 'befriended' young Snape, a boy of mixed parentage and impoverished background. I think he recognized the potential usefulness of Snape's talent, both immediately (novel, amusing hexes are nothing to sneeze at) and in the longer term. As his protegee, Snape would always 'owe him' for helping him get a start, and with his talents he might get somewhere useful.

Also he probably cares for Draco, we see that he takes 'revenge' on Buckbeak for injuring him.

True, but is Lucius exacting revenge for Draco's sake, or is it an indirect shot at someone like Hagrid, who Lucius would view a sub-human, because not only is he half-blood, but half-blood giant? Was all the pomp of a trial and Malfoy's injury necessary for something that wasn't serious?

I have no doubts in my mind that you are right, Lucius does care for Draco, but I'm not entirely convinced that going after Buckbeak and Hagrid was to prove his love. I tend to figure that was more bravado; like 'don't mess with a Malfoy because you won't win' sort of scenario.



Adult Malfoy is shown to be a master of Slughorn-style networking (with some bribes tossed in, being wealthy is always a fine thing). <snip>

I think Lucius the boy was a Slug Club member (he was in Slytherin so Sluggie would have known him, and he was the heir to what is apparently a fortune). There, I think he saw what Slughorn did, and saw its possible value to himself. I think it is in this spirit that Lucius 'befriended' young Snape, a boy of mixed parentage and impoverished background. I think he recognized the potential usefulness of Snape's talent, both immediately (novel, amusing hexes are nothing to sneeze at) and in the longer term. As his protegee, Snape would always 'owe him' for helping him get a start, and with his talents he might get somewhere useful.

:agree: Befriending Snape is like Draco having Crabbe&Goyle follow him; they aren't really necessary or needed for the most part, but they do prove useful in a pinch. As said, Snape's dark magic knowledge would prove very useful to Lucius, kind of allowing him to *run the show* as it were.

Is it possible, perhaps, that Snape 'owing' Lucius may come into play in book 7? Like would Snape ever be called upon by the Malfoy family (again, I suppose) to try to stem LV's wrath against Lucius for losing the prophecy, or even help Lucius escape the gong-show-formerly-known-as-Azkaban, if there is a way for Snape to do so? It doesn't appear that Snape and Lucius are friendly in any real way now, but perhaps any Lucius-influence from youth...?

Can anyone remember where the quote about Snape hanging out with Lucius at school comes from? I was looking for it yesterday but it wasn't where I expected it to be! Thanks.

^It's in OotP, chapter 24. I don't know the page because I had to Lexicon it, but here's the quote:

"I've warned you, Snivellus," said Sirius, his face barely a foot from Snape's, "I don't care if Dumbledore thinks you've reformed, I know better -- "
"Oh, but why don't you tell him so?" whispered Snape, "or are you afraid he might not take the advice of a man who has been hiding inside his mother's house for six months very seriously?"
"Tell me, how is Lucius Malfoy these days?" I expect he's delighted his lapdog's working at Hogwarts, isn't he?"
"Speaking of dogs," said Snape softly, "did you know that Lucius Malfoy recognized you last time you risked a little jaunt outside? Clever idea, Black, getting yourself seen on a safe platform...gave you a cast-iron excuse not to leave your hidey-hole in the future, didn't it?"

I thought this might be the quote you meant...It was the first one I thought of anyway! :)

^It's in OotP, chapter 24. I don't know the page because I had to Lexicon it, but here's the quote:

"I've warned you, Snivellus," said Sirius, his face barely a foot from Snape's, "I don't care if Dumbledore thinks you've reformed, I know better -- "
"Oh, but why don't you tell him so?" whispered Snape, "or are you afraid he might not take the advice of a man who has been hiding inside his mother's house for six months very seriously?"
"Tell me, how is Lucius Malfoy these days?" I expect he's delighted his lapdog's working at Hogwarts, isn't he?"
"Speaking of dogs," said Snape softly, "did you know that Lucius Malfoy recognized you last time you risked a little jaunt outside? Clever idea, Black, getting yourself seen on a safe platform...gave you a cast-iron excuse not to leave your hidey-hole in the future, didn't it?"

I thought this might be the quote you meant...It was the first one I thought of anyway! :)

Thanks for that. I thought there was one somewhere about who Snape hung about with at school but I may be wrong.

Sirius' remark about Snape being Lucius' lapdog is very interesting though. It suggests more of a relationship than we've seen in the books. And presumably Snape discovered Lucius had recognised Sirius from Lucius himself. So how did Lucius recognise Sirius the dog? When had he seen him in that guise before? Sirius has been pretty much in hiding since he got out of Azkaban.

Thanks for that. I thought there was one somewhere about who Snape hung about with at school but I may be wrong.

Sirius' remark about Snape being Lucius' lapdog is very interesting though. It suggests more of a relationship than we've seen in the books. And presumably Snape discovered Lucius had recognised Sirius from Lucius himself. So how did Lucius recognise Sirius the dog? When had he seen him in that guise before? Sirius has been pretty much in hiding since he got out of Azkaban.

Lucius probably heard about Sirius's animagus form via Wormtail. The fact that Sirius was an illegal animagus would have been a useful piece of intelligence that Wormtail could have given to Voldemort. Voldemort would certainly passed it on to the rest of the DEs after he learned of it since he wouldn't want to have an unknown illegal animagus potentially spying on his followers.

Lucius probably heard about Sirius's animagus form via Wormtail. The fact that Sirius was an illegal animagus would have been a useful piece of intelligence that Wormtail could have given to Voldemort. Voldemort would certainly passed it on to the rest of the DEs after he learned of it since he wouldn't want to have an unknown illegal animagus potentially spying on his followers.

Yes, I suppose that's true, but how would Lucius have known Sirius was that particular dog? There must be masses of big black dogs around. Maybe it was just association with Harry.

Yes, I suppose that's true, but how would Lucius have known Sirius was that particular dog? There must be masses of big black dogs around. Maybe it was just association with Harry.

I think that was it. Especially when Sirius got up on his back legs to hug Harry. If you weren't already suspicious, I would think that would do it!

ETA: I kind of wonder why, after Lucius saw Sirius at 9 3/4, he didn't tell LV that he saw him so they could go hunt Sirius down? Maybe he did but we didn't hear about it...I don't know. Thinking out loud! :lol:

I think Lucius the boy was a Slug Club member (he was in Slytherin so Sluggie would have known him, and he was the heir to what is apparently a fortune). There, I think he saw what Slughorn did, and saw its possible value to himself. I think it is in this spirit that Lucius 'befriended' young Snape, a boy of mixed parentage and impoverished background. I think he recognized the potential usefulness of Snape's talent, both immediately (novel, amusing hexes are nothing to sneeze at) and in the longer term. As his protegee, Snape would always 'owe him' for helping him get a start, and with his talents he might get somewhere useful.
I could definately see this happening - it fits Lucius's personality. And Snape, an awkward but ambitious student might see the attraction of a rich, older, and (I assume) more social and popular classmate like Lucius.

At the same time...I have a feeling that Lucius probably wouldn't 'give' a lot in such a relationship - only take. I could see him treating Snape like the 'lapdog' Sirius called him: probably getting him to run errands, edit his papers (or even write - Snape was supposedly advanced in the Dark Arts), deliver love letters to Narcissa, etc.

But Lucius probably never helped Snape much. In SMW Snape doesn't appear to have any friends - even casual ones. Granted, Lucius would be out of Hogwarts by that time, but Lucius - had he chosen to - could have given Snape a leg-up on the social ladder of Hogwarts. Based on the memory, I don't think he did. Lucius probably used Snape and laughed at him behind his back at Hogwarts. And I don't think their supposed 'friendship' is all that great these days. Have we ever seen proof of it aside from the assumptions of others? I don't even think they've had a scene together in the books.

I agree there's not much sign of friendship between Lucius and Snape anywhere in the books. In fact if it wasn't for Sirius callling Snape Lucius's lapdog, we wouldn't think twice about it. But since Sirius does use that phrase we must assume that in some place Snape ran around after Lucius and did what he was told. Doesn't sound like the Snape we know though. Unless he is double-agenting yet again....

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

Lucius is far more loyal to his family than he is to Voldemort (VM). And when I say Voldemort, I mean just him, and not the pureblood cause that he leads. In other words, Lucius will always be a pureblood/anti-muggle proponent, but at this point, with the unwitting release of Riddle's diary, which then resulted in what I believe to have been Lucius' coerced presence at the ministry fiasco, which then caused his current stint in Azkaban and the deadly threat to his son and family- the situation with VM has devolved into a such a huge, thoroughy unexpected pain in the ***, I have no doubt that Lucius is truly regretting his ever having promoted VM in the first place. In fact, I believe that there is nothing Lucius would rather do more than to whack VM himself.

I remember reading somewhere (Red Hen, I believe) that Lucius never would regard himself as one bearing allegiance to anyone, including VM. Rather, Lucius regards the relationship as alliance. There is a great difference in the meaning of those two words and this spot-on analysis underscores my belief that while Lucius will always propound pureblood alliances and causes, he is equally appalled by the prospect of having to deal with an increasingly out of control and unpredictable VM.

Let's not forget that Lucius barely escaped a scandalous prison sentence in VWI and has spent a considerable amount of time and resources cementing his image as a respectable member (however dark people know him to be) of the Wizarding world. And, I don't believe for a second that all this rehabilitating was done while wearing his "true mask", waiting breathlessly for VM to return, or whatever hooey he called it while at the graveyard with VM in the GOB. No, I think Lucius spends time and money on anchoring his reputuation and family name because he likes being a proud, influential member of a wealthy family with a presitgious name; following the more important task of ensuring that he avoided a stint at Azkaban, the embarrassment of getting nailed after VMI certainly required that he do whatever it took to maintain the prestige of his fanily name.

Anyway, given the trouble that Lucius had already gone through with VM in the past debacle of WVI, I also have no doubt whatsoever that Lucius was actually relieved at the perceived demise of V. My personal belief has always been that Lucius experienced a true sense of dread when it became clear that this was not the case. i.e. What other sort of other problems was this wizard going to cause for him this time? Lucius' less than speedy response in re-joining VM, as evidenced by his putting it off to where he probably couldn't do so any longer without coming off as blatantly disloyal, would seem to underscore this point.


What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

Obviously not enough to keep him out of trouble with VM. I am positive that Lucius had no idea he was dealing with a Horcrux and only sought to release the powers of the diary to cause trouble. Because causing trouble, especially as it best advantages him, is what Lucius does best.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

Well, clearly Lucius didn't obtain his child-rearing skills watching "Oprah", so I guess we can all be thankful for some favors. Notwithstanding the whole issue of, "does passing on the pureblood philosphy constitute child abuse?", I actually think Lucius is quite a good father. Maybe not in the context of what some people would regard as "good", but just because Lucius isn't warm and fuzzy, doesn't make him a bad parent. In fact, I have no problem with his parenting skills at all; he doesn't put up with any nonsense, he is very clear about his high expectations for Draco's future, and pushes him to be the best he can be. That is a perfect parent in my book.

Look, as a father, Lucius is what he is; the classic embodiemt of the remote, aristocratic English parent who lacks warmth, while exuding a seemingly perpetual degree of exasperation (some of it justified, that's been made obvious) towards his son. But everybody's different, and the fact is that Lucius' strong presence and active influence in his son's upbringing reflects a close relationship that seems to have worked well in terms of Draco's success in academics and sports (as best I can recall, Draco's been doing well, so no flaming, please!) Anyway, Draco certainly looks up to his father and actually appears to be quite proud of him, albeit in a braggy, immature sort of way.

So, yes, I would say that Lucius is a fine father. (And, yes, for those of you who need to hear me say it, Lucius really does love his son.)

What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

That's a tough one. I couldn't even begin to figure that out, except to say that Arthur and Lucius had run-ins far before the COS brawl in the bookstore and he loves Narcissa. I think he reagrds Dumblefore as a huge detriment in so far as Dumlbledore promotes the inclusion of muggleborns, etc. at Hogwarts. Severus, I don't know-I would suspect that they have been close since their affiliation at Hogwarts. As for Harry, I think Lucius regards him as just the biggest thorn in his side. Harry messed things up in VWI, Harry is just like his meddlesome parents and getting worse as he gets older.

Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP? Don't know enough to comment.

Will he escape from Azkaban?
Undoubtedly. If only to save his wife and child. I imagine there will be a lot of bribery involved with that one, but with the (forget their names, sorry) gone, it should be a far easier of a task to accomplish.

What kind of role will he play in the last book?

Hard to say. I personally think his role will involve mourning his wife and child. Lucius' parable will be that he unwittingly sacrificied them in his pursuit of a movement that was ultimately led by a maniac of Lucius' choosing. He will always retain the VM/pureblood philosphy and Lucius would never do anything to help Harry (unless, I suppose, it somehow benefitted himself in some way); but now that its all over, Lucius will have lost everything, at least as it relates to his family. He'll still be a rich wizard who detests muggles, but he'll be a somewhat broken man, whose wealth won't bring his wife and son back. That will be Lucius' lesson learned.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

Yes. See first question.

In the last book, I think that Lucius will try to get revenge on Voldemort. Voldemort kept Lucius in prison and used Draco in a mission that could possibly kill him. As bad of a person Lucius is, I don't see him going back to Voldemort after everything that's happened.

In the last book, I think that Lucius will try to get revenge on Voldemort. Voldemort kept Lucius in prison and used Draco in a mission that could possibly kill him. As bad of a person Lucius is, I don't see him going back to Voldemort after everything that's happened.

Oh I don't know. Lucius is always open to what will profit him best. If he thinks Voldemort is winning, there's no way he'd risk himself to become his enemy. If however, Voldemort loses, I suspect Lucius will claim that he was working against him all the time. A born weasel is our Lucius.

Oh I don't know. Lucius is always open to what will profit him best. If he thinks Voldemort is winning, there's no way he'd risk himself to become his enemy. If however, Voldemort loses, I suspect Lucius will claim that he was working against him all the time. A born weasel is our Lucius.

Because Lucius always wants what profits him, I think that he will wait for the perfect time to act. When it's obvious that Voldemort will lose, I think that Lucius will find a way to help out Harry.

Because Lucius always wants what profits him, I think that he will wait for the perfect time to act. When it's obvious that Voldemort will lose, I think that Lucius will find a way to help out Harry.
Somehow I find the idea of Lucius Malfoy as a Death Eater turncoat and helper of Harry Potter rather farfetched and downright distasteful. I believe that this theory lives or dies on the belief system that every human being is inherently good and has the propensity to 'do the right thing', something I personally do not subscribe to as it is much to idealistic for my rather jaded taste. I suppose in my mind everyone could possibly have the ability to do good, but not necessarily the capability, which is all that really counts. What it all comes down to is that pesky little thing known as free will and personal choices. While Lucius may have the ability to do good, it seems as though he is psychologically incapable of exercising it because we have not seen him say or do anything that is not morally reprehensible. The likelihood of Lucius undergoing what would be a huge change of character and beliefs is ridiculously improbable. Do you know how much writing it would take to reconcile the reformed-Order-of-the-Phoenix-helping-in-order-to-save-his-loved-ones-Lucius with the pompous *** that most of us know and hate? The only time we have ever seen Lucius interacting with his son, he is ragging on the kid for letting a Muggleborn classmate get better marks than him at school, which I think gives us a powerful insight into Lucius: that he cares more about people’s perceptions of the family name that the feelings or self-esteem of the child that will carry on that name. Somehow I do not think that I am far off the mark in doubting that J.K. Rowling is going to waste valuable page space on reforming the Malfoy patriarch when she has so much ground to cover already what with the finding and destroying of at least four Horcruxes, the final showdown between Harry and the Dark Lord, and revealing the truth about Severus Snape, the only Death Eater that we know of who is on the fence with regards to loyalty to Voldemort (though I suppose some will protest that there is Draco, though I believe the younger male Malfoy to be too much of a spineless worm to ever attempt to flip sides; his pitiful life means too much to him to ever desert, a trait he most likely shares with his father; the Dark Lord might kill him for not succeeding at the most important part of the task given to him, but he definitely will kill if he defects to hide under the protection of the Order, which is hardly fool proof as Voldemort was able to murder Emmeline Vance, a prominent member of the Order). Another problem literarily is matters of location. Lucius is currently serving what I assume to me a rather long sentence in Azkaban (for, let's see: breaking and entering a government building, attempted burglary of a highly valuable magical object, destruction of government property as well as assaulting—with the possible intent of murder and/or torture—a group of teenaged Hogwarts students), and pretty much the only one who can bust him out (Lord Voldemort) seems content to let his sorry but rot in jail. And there is no way the Ministry of Magic is going to let him out what with their lack of effectiveness in the department of catching and retaining known Death Eaters. There would be a public outcry if anyone found out that they let a known supporter of the Dark Lord who they had detained on myriad charges walk free. I mean, if they will not let Stan Shunpike who did absolutely nothing go free in an attempt to save face, they sure as hell are not letting Lucius go anywhere, regardless of what he promises to do for them. At this point his word is worth about as much as his credibility—nothing.

Somehow I find the idea of Lucius Malfoy as a Death Eater turncoat and helper of Harry Potter rather farfetched and downright distasteful. I believe that this theory lives or dies on the belief system that every human being is inherently good and has the propensity to 'do the right thing', something I personally do not subscribe to as it is much to idealistic for my rather jaded taste.

I see where you're going with the idea of the many wanting to redeem those who may simply be inherently nasty people (our love affair with the *bad boy*) but perhaps the Lucius who joins Harry Potter wouldn't be joining out of reform but rather, as a way to stay on top.

We've discussed before how Lucius is quite the Machiavellian character; that he manipulates and bribes his way around to somehow manage to have his bread buttered on both sides (a very apt analogy courtesy of an earlier poster). So any chance Lucius might join Harry/the Order, while small, is still possible. No saying he's doing it because he is a good person...it may be a case of wanting to be on the *winning* team.


The only time we have ever seen Lucius interacting with his son, he is ragging on the kid for letting a Muggleborn classmate get better marks than him at school, which I think gives us a powerful insight into Lucius: that he cares more about people’s perceptions of the family name that the feelings or self-esteem of the child that will carry on that name.

It does give quite a bit of insite into Lucius' psyche and you're very right, there doesn't seem to be much regard for things outside of the honour of the family name. On the other hand, would squashing Draco's self-esteem just make him more compliant to Lucius? You figure the way dictator's run their countries: on fear. Now, Draco may not technically be afraid of his father, but when Lucius goes to such trouble to make himself into someone not to be crossed, in my mind it seems the next step that Draco become just like Lucius because a)Lucius has outlined it to be *appropriate* and b)Draco doesn't know different.

...more of a 'tough love' scenario. Not saying it's right, rather the contrary, but it does prove effective in creating a child in the image of yourself and of, your idea, of a *fine upstanding citizen*.

[QUOTE=loveshopelost;4271552]
Another problem literarily is matters of location. Lucius is currently serving what I assume to me a rather long sentence in Azkaban (for, let's see: breaking and entering a government building, attempted burglary of a highly valuable magical object, destruction of government property as well as assaulting—with the possible intent of murder and/or torture—a group of teenaged Hogwarts students), and pretty much the only one who can bust him out (Lord Voldemort) seems content to let his sorry but rot in jail. And there is no way the Ministry of Magic is going to let him out ...QUOTE]

Oh, no questions there, the Ministry won't let him out (let being the operative word). horcrux4 has it right: a born weasel is our Lucius. As much as we may not like it, it seems, to me, the most apt ending to Lucius would be to have him slip out once more, whether it be to *help* Harry (with genuine interest in reforming or not!) or simply to save his own hide. IMHO.

I see where you're going with the idea of the many wanting to redeem those who may simply be inherently nasty people (our love affair with the *bad boy*) but perhaps the Lucius who joins Harry Potter wouldn't be joining out of reform but rather, as a way to stay on top.
But Lucius has already fallen from the top. Rather hard, as a matter of fact, and he also happened to land on the pointy rocks waiting for him on the bottom. So it is not a question of Lucius switching sides to remain on top, it is a question of dragging himself out of the ditch to climb his way back up the mountain, which is quite a bit harder.
It does give quite a bit of insite into Lucius' psyche and you're very right, there doesn't seem to be much regard for things outside of the honour of the family name. On the other hand, would squashing Draco's self-esteem just make him more compliant to Lucius? You figure the way dictator's run their countries: on fear. Now, Draco may not technically be afraid of his father, but when Lucius goes to such trouble to make himself into someone not to be crossed, in my mind it seems the next step that Draco become just like Lucius because a)Lucius has outlined it to be *appropriate* and b)Draco doesn't know different.

...more of a 'tough love' scenario. Not saying it's right, rather the contrary, but it does prove effective in creating a child in the image of yourself and of, your idea, of a *fine upstanding citizen*.
In a way, I think you are attempting to sugarcoat Lucius' behavior towards his only son by labelling it as 'tough love'. I believe that chapter four, At Flourish And Blotts, of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, is really the only section we have of dialogue between the Malfoy father and son that is particularly telling of both characters. I have taken the liberty of quoting the pertinent passage and highlighting a few sections, as I believe it will be of much use to prove my point.
Harry made his way swiftly and silently toward the door, but before he'd got halfway toward it, two people appeared on the other side of the glass--and one of them was the very last person Harry wanted to meet when he was lost, covered in soot, and wearing broken glasses: Draco Malfoy.

Harry looked quickly around and spotted a large black cabinet to his left; he shot inside it and pulled the doors closed, leaving a small crack to peer through. Seconds later, a bell clanged, and Malfoy stepped into the shop.

The man who followed could only be Draco's father. He had the same pale, pointed face and identical cold, grey eyes. Mr. Malfoy crossed the shop, looking lazily at the items on display and rang a bell on the counter before turning to his son and saying, "Tough nothing, Draco."

Malfoy, who had reached for the glass eye, said, "I thought you were going to buy me a present."

"I said I would buy you a racing broom," said his father, drumming his fingers on the counter.

"What the good of that if I'm not on the House team?" said Malfoy, looking sulky and bad-tempered. "Harry Potter got a Nimbus Two Thousand last year. Special permission from Dumbledore so he could play for Gryffindor. He's not even good, it's just because he's famous...famous for haveing having a stupid scar on his forehead...."

Malfoy bent down to examine a shelf full of skulls.

"...everyone thinks he's so smart, wonderful Potter with his scar and is broomstick--"

"You have told me this at least a dozen times already," said Mr. Malfoy, with a quelling look at his son. "And I would remind you that it is not--prudent--to appear less than fond of Harry Potter, not when most of our kind regard him as the hero who made the Dark Lord disapper--ah, Mr. Borgin."

[snip]

"Can I have that?" interrupted Draco, pointing at the withered hand on its cushion.

"Ah, the Hand of Glory!" said Mr. Borgin, abandoning Mr. Malfoy's list and scurrying over to Draco. "Insert a candle and it gives light only to the holder. Best friend of thieves and plunderers! Your son has fine taste, sir."

"I hope my son will amount to more than a thief or a plunderer, Borgin," said Mr. Malfoy coldly, and Mr. Borgin said quickly, "No offense, sir, no offense meant--"

"Though if his grades don't pick up," said Mr. Malfoy, more coldly still, "that may be indeed all he is fit for--"

"It's not my fault," retorted Draco. "The teacher's all have favorites, that Hermione Granger--"

"I would have thought you'd be ashamed that a girl of no wizarding family beat you in every exam," snapped Mr. Malfoy.

"Ha!" said Harry under his breath, pleased to see Draco looking both abashed and angry.

"It's the same all over," said Mr. Borgin in his oily voice. "Wizarding blood is counting for less everywhere--"

"Not with me," said Mr. Malfoy, his long nostrils flaring.
Mr. Malfoy obviously sees fit to publicly humiliate Draco in front of a mere shopkeeper as a means of expressing his immense disapproval that his one and only male heir cannot even beat a little Muggle girl in school examinations. Draco responds by making excuses and putting down others in an attempt to sooth his wounded pride, though it is clear that his father's words have their desired effect. Now I know the response to this will most likely be: "Well, if Draco's dad is so mean to him, than why does he practically worship the ground his dad walks on?" Well, from what we can see of Draco's behavior at school, it is quite true that he idealizes his father, as almost every other sentence that leaves his mouth begins with 'My father'. However, such hero worship is not unusual in a relationship where the child is made to feel like that no matter what, he cannot measure up to the illustrious personage that his father is thought to be.
Oh, no questions there, the Ministry won't let him out (let being the operative word). horcrux4 has it right: a born weasel is our Lucius. As much as we may not like it, it seems, to me, the most apt ending to Lucius would be to have him slip out once more, whether it be to *help* Harry (with genuine interest in reforming or not!) or simply to save his own hide. IMHO.
Since we have already established the fact that Lucius Malfoy is a high profile prisoner, I think it not illogical to next presume that the sercurity surrounding him is thus relatively tight. He got pinched on some pretty serious charges, so it is not as though he is serving cupcake time. The probability of Lucius being able to free himself is particularly small and because he has disgraced himself, none of his Death Eater cronies are not likely willing to risk the Dark Lord's displeasure to help him. So as I said above, realistically the only person capable of busting him is Lord Voldemort, and he has not lifted a finger to help Lucius thus far.

I am also sure that there are not too many channels of covert communication open to him in Azkaban, as the Ministry most likely is suspicious of Lucius, are expecting some sort of escape attempt and are keeping an extra vigilant watch over him. Which means I think it also unlikely he will be able to contact the Order in an attempt to arrange the giving of imformation in return for freeing him from Azkaban and protection from the Dark Lord. Also, I think that even in the event such contact was made, the members of the Order would be extremely speculative. Things are becoming more and more deadly, and fresh off the apparent betrayal of Severus Snape, they are most likelly not willing to put their trust in a turncoat could once more when it could easily turn out the same way.

I searched for this and didn't find it, so I thought here would be the best place to ask.

Lucius' name: is it pronounced Loo-shus or Lucy-us?
The scholastic pronunciation guide and Andrew from Mugglecast say "Lucy-us" (or Loo-see-us if that's clearer), but I think the audio books and the movies both say "Loo-shus". I've always preferred Loo-shus, as Lucy-us sounds too much like 'loose' or Lucy, but I don't know if there technically a correct way to pronounce it or not.
how do you pronounce it?

So it is not a question of Lucius switching sides to remain on top, it is a question of dragging himself out of the ditch to climb his way back up the mountain, which is quite a bit harder.

I stand corrected! :)


In a way, I think you are attempting to sugarcoat Lucius' behavior towards his only son by labelling it as 'tough love'.

I may have worded that poorly. :( I really don't intend to sugarcoat Lucius' behaviour. Rather, I use the idea of 'tough love' more in the same way you hear about it being used in the army. Now, I've never been in the army, but from what I know it's not always a pleasant experience. The leaders are very tough on the recruits, not because they are honestly these sadistic people (although some may be, I don't know), but rather as a way of being very exacting about their standards and what they want to see in someone representing that particular group. The commanders (or whomever) do want their cadets or recruits etc. to succeed, but the need for discipline and order reigns heavily in their eyes.

So for Lucius, it's very important that his son represent him in the best way possible. Draco's emotional stability isn't really a factor from what I understand. As long as he walks with his head held high and tells the world about just how wonderful the Malfoys are, Lucius is happy.

Plus, I think, as Lucius is used to this sort of power-mongering that he does with other people in his life (his assumed usage of fear tactics, bribery and extortion), it's likely that a fair amount of that carries over into his home life. I don't know he can shut Lucius-the-Powerful off, even when he's at home.


Now I know the response to this will most likely be: "Well, if Draco's dad is so mean to him, than why does he practically worship the ground his dad walks on?" <snip> However, such hero worship is not unusual in a relationship where the child is made to feel like that no matter what, he cannot measure up to the illustrious personage that his father is thought to be.

Actually, I'm not surprised that Draco worships his father despite the way Lucius treats him and I agree it's not at all unusual for that sort of hero worship. My dad treats my brother like ****, yet my brother will still stand up for him when my mom is upset with my father. There's seems to be something with Draco (and my brother as well) where there is a need to try to stand up to the pedestal your father is on, despite the fact that it's unlikely you'll ever get there.

There's been many studies done by psychologists who all conclude that the most influential person in a child's life is the parent of the same gender. So if that parent is exacting, fastidious and demanding, that child does everything they can to live up to what that parent wants them to be. So in Draco's case, it's still his father, despite how nasty Lucius is to him.


Since we have already established the fact that Lucius Malfoy is a high profile prisoner, I think it not illogical to next presume that the sercurity surrounding him is thus relatively tight.

You've got a point with Lucius working in the red in LV's books, but you figure that Sirius Black should have been a high profile criminal, as well as Barty Crouch Jr., and they both got out...

..although the difference there might be the fact that both were being watched by Dementors which, technically, can't see...;)


Lucius' name: is it pronounced Loo-shus or Lucy-us?
The scholastic pronunciation guide and Andrew from Mugglecast say "Lucy-us" (or Loo-see-us if that's clearer), but I think the audio books and the movies both say "Loo-shus". I've always preferred Loo-shus, as Lucy-us sounds too much like 'loose' or Lucy...

I've wondered that one myself. I prefer Loo-shus too, just because I like the sound of the word better (it sounds fuller. Loo-see-us sounds weasley to me...although it is appropriate for him! :lol:). Technically, I think Jason Isaacs says Loo-see-us but I'm inclined to believe it's Loo-shus as any word I can think of with 'i' after 'c' is pronounced like a 'sh' sound (precious, delicious, loquacious etc.). Hope that helped! :)

The reason the first lot of DEs escaped from Azkaban was that the guards were Dementors and they switched to Voldemort. Now the guards are wizards and I don't see that they'll give Lucius or the others much of a chance to escape. In any case, does Lucius want to escape? He is not being tormented like Bella was by the Dementors and he is safe from both Voldemort and the OOTP. Unless he feels he wants to help his family if Voldemort is after them, I can't see any reason for Lucius to come out of prison till he has to. And when he is finally released, assuming that day comes, I'm sure he'll have some cast-iron excuse as to why he should never have been put away in the first place. And worm his way back into respectability.

But break out of Azkaban to help that despicable little half-blood, Potter? I really can't see it.

I may have worded that poorly. I really don't intend to sugarcoat Lucius' behaviour. Rather, I use the idea of 'tough love' more in the same way you hear about it being used in the army. Now, I've never been in the army, but from what I know it's not always a pleasant experience. The leaders are very tough on the recruits, not because they are honestly these sadistic people (although some may be, I don't know), but rather as a way of being very exacting about their standards and what they want to see in someone representing that particular group. The commanders (or whomever) do want their cadets or recruits etc. to succeed, but the need for discipline and order reigns heavily in their eyes.
I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you by saying I felt you were 'sugarcoating' Lucius's behaviour; the point I was trying to convey was that it seemed to me as though you were attempting to soften the harshness of Lucius's interactions with his son by labelling it as 'tough love'. To be quite honest, I think love has very little to do with the Malfoy patriarch's feelings for his son--or anyone else, for that matter. Lucius does not strike me as a person who is particularly in touch with his feelings or emotions; he most likely feels that both are a sign of weakness and they are therefore completely useless.

Also, I think you are somewhat mistaken in comparing Lucius's treatment of his son to that of a drill sargeant. In the army (or at least the United States Armed Forces, though I assume it is most likely the same whatever the country) drill sargeants are hard on the recruits because military life is difficult. Being a soldier is not a job, it is a lifestyle, and they want to weed out those who are not fit for that lifestyle at the very beginning. Also, though I am sure many will not like my saying this, it is a drill sargeant's job to break down the individuality of his recruits in order to make them think and act as a single entity to they are able to accomplish the missions they are assigned.

You've got a point with Lucius working in the red in LV's books, but you figure that Sirius Black should have been a high profile criminal, as well as Barty Crouch Jr., and they both got out...

..although the difference there might be the fact that both were being watched by Dementors which, technically, can't see...
I really love what horcrux4 said about this issue; she took the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard, as it were):
The reason the first lot of DEs escaped from Azkaban was that the guards were Dementors and they switched to Voldemort. Now the guards are wizards and I don't see that they'll give Lucius or the others much of a chance to escape. In any case, does Lucius want to escape? He is not being tormented like Bella was by the Dementors and he is safe from both Voldemort and the OOTP.
Unless he feels he wants to help his family if Voldemort is after them, I can't see any reason for Lucius to come out of prison till he has to. And when he is finally released, assuming that day comes, I'm sure he'll have some cast-iron excuse as to why he should never have been put away in the first place. And worm his way back into respectability.
I personally feel that Lucius's worming days are over. I doubt that he will get a second chance because I think that he will either spend the rest of his life in prison or will die.
But break out of Azkaban to help that despicable little half-blood, Potter? I really can't see it.
I agree with this statement 100%. As far as Lucius is concerned, he probably blames Harry for landing his butt in jail in the first place. Draco has made it clear that he feels Harry is to blame for his father's incarceration, I mean, he did step on Harry's face in an atempt to exact revenge upon him.

To be quite honest, I think love has very little to do with the Malfoy patriarch's feelings for his son--or anyone else, for that matter. Lucius does not strike me as a person who is particularly in touch with his feelings or emotions; he most likely feels that both are a sign of weakness and they are therefore completely useless.

You've got a good point there: in furthering the idea of seeing Lucius as this Victorian-esque father, emotions and feelings probably are a sign of weakness for him. I mean, how is something like compassion or empathy going to help him be mean and ruthless? :lol:


Also, though I am sure many will not like my saying this, it is a drill sargeant's job to break down the individuality of his recruits in order to make them think and act as a single entity to they are able to accomplish the missions they are assigned.

But in some ways, wouldn't breaking Draco down and remolding him into an image of himself, be something Lucius might be interested in? You figure how highly Lucius thinks of himself...I don't know. I could just imagine Lucius wanting Draco to be like himself, just because he sees himself as successful (from what I've interpreted) and wants his son, whose behaviour reflects on Lucius, to be seen as successful as well. Which is why I see him attempting to be as exacting and harsh on Draco as he is.


I personally feel that Lucius's worming days are over. I doubt that he will get a second chance because I think that he will either spend the rest of his life in prison or will die.

Do you think he'll die in prison or he'll get out and then die? Just out of curiousity! :)

I don't know. Part of me thinks that Lucius will get out because I just can't see that being the ending for his character, not when he's spent so much of his time worming his way out of jams, as horcrux4 mentioned. On the other hand, however, how else can she wrap him up? :shrug:


I agree with this statement 100%. As far as Lucius is concerned, he probably blames Harry for landing his butt in jail in the first place. Draco has made it clear that he feels Harry is to blame for his father's incarceration, I mean, he did step on Harry's face in an atempt to exact revenge upon him.

Just to clarify: I don't think Lucius would help the OOTP honestly. Rather, I think he would only switch sides if it seemed like his best option. I agree, I doubt that Lucius will genuinely want to help any of the *good guys*, but I wonder if he wouldn't jump at the chance to a)get out of jail and b)have some semblance of protection?

Because you and horcrux4 are right: it isn't to Lucius' advantage to escape jail if it means he'll wind up on his own because either a DE will kill him or the Order will. I think Lucius would need to take refuge with a side, regardless of whether he agrees with their ethics, just to save his own hide.

But in some ways, wouldn't breaking Draco down and remolding him into an image of himself, be something Lucius might be interested in? You figure how highly Lucius thinks of himself...I don't know. I could just imagine Lucius wanting Draco to be like himself, just because he sees himself as successful (from what I've interpreted) and wants his son, whose behaviour reflects on Lucius, to be seen as successful as well. Which is why I see him attempting to be as exacting and harsh on Draco as he is.

Nah, he doesn't want to break his son. Lucius probably worries about Draco's considerable naiveté. Although Draco wants to play with the big boys he has lead a very sheltered life. Lucius wants to prepare him for reality, which in their case means being a leading figure in the wizarding world and a Death Eater. The way I see it, Draco isn't up to it yet. I think Lucius wants his son to be even better than himself and that's why he pushes him further and demands more and more. Draco is Lucius' only son, so he has to be a success.

Although Draco wants to play with the big boys he has lead a very sheltered life.

I suppose so :agree:. So much a part of that coming from just being young, and part of it coming from being inexperienced.


I think Lucius wants his son to be even better than himself and that's why he pushes him further and demands more and more. Draco is Lucius' only son, so he has to be a success.

That sounds like it would be pretty key to their relationship in general. :agree:

I can't remember if we've discussed this before but does anyone think Lucius might be an only child? I could imagine it, and that would add to his pressure on his son: Lucius, as the only Malfoy child of the previous generation, has to carry a lot and would, in turn, pass all that and more to Draco, as an only child himself.

I can't remember if we've discussed this before but does anyone think Lucius might be an only child? I could imagine it, and that would add to his pressure on his son: Lucius, as the only Malfoy child of the previous generation, has to carry a lot and would, in turn, pass all that and more to Draco, as an only child himself.

Does the Black Family tree show any of Lucius' relatives? I'll check here in a little bit...

But even if it doesn't I'd be pretty confiedent in saying that Lucius is an only child, or at least, the only boy child. Because if there were another boy in the family, I'm sure it would be a competition between them and you might have heard mention of the other Malfoy either at the Ministry or whatever, regardless of whether Lucius was doing better or worse than him.

However, if there was a sister, she would have gotten married or whatever, and I don't think that anyone would care as much as if there was a boy. (While typing this, it makes me realize how medival the pureblood familes are)

ETA: The Black Family Tree doesn't show any of Lucius' relatives :no:

I do think Lucius shows the signs of a stereotypical only child. (Having said that, my Dad was an only, and a friendlier, more generous guy you couldn't meet!) He does seem to think the world turns around him and has a very strong idea of his own importance. If he got the same sort of pressure from his father, he'd probably do the same with Draco - learned behaviour. Do we know anything about Lucius' parents? Does he have a family motto like the "Toujours pur" the Blacks have? It would suit him just fine!

Do you think he'll die in prison or he'll get out and then die? Just out of curiousity!

I don't know. Part of me thinks that Lucius will get out because I just can't see that being the ending for his character, not when he's spent so much of his time worming his way out of jams, as horcrux4 mentioned. On the other hand, however, how else can she wrap him up?
I do not know if it is my overactive imagination playing tricks upon me (once again! :p ), but I have the distinct impression, from both your avatar and the quote in your signature, which is by Jason Isaacs, the man who just so happens to portray Lucius Malfoy in the films, not to mention your generous hopes for the future possible (partial) redemption for both characters, that you may perhaps have a bit of a sweet spot for the Malfoy men.

But so you ask for my thoughts, and so I shall tell them to you, but as no explanation is complete without a person also explaining why they think that way, you must prepare for me to expound upon my philosophy. However, before I start, I wish to say that the following is not intended to insult or infuriate anyone, it is my personal opinion, which I think is justified. So here goes:

I suppose that my misanthropic and disillusioned-before-my-time (I am barely twenty, after all) view of the world could be to blame for my somewhat sour and dour predictions for the Malfoy clan. However, I (obviously) prefer to believe that it is my discerning, if rather cold, judgment that makes me suspect such an ending. I think that the general hope for the possible redemption of such characters as Lucius Malfoy, his son and perhaps even Severus Snape, his apparent pet, has a lot to do with the cinema and the coincidence that all three characters are portrayed by men who are widely held to be some of the hadsomest around, not to mention the fairer sex's age-old love for the 'bad boy' (something that never fails to baffle me--after all, bad boys almost certainly grow to become bad men). I happen to agree whole-heartedly with J.K. Rowling when she says that with most women, the thinking goes, "Oh, I can change him, put him in touch with his feelings and turn him good." But J.K. Rowling (a woman of now mein wisdom, apparently) is also correct when she observes that people can not change other people, and trying to do so often leads to more heartache and sadness than one would initially imagine. That said, I also think Ms. Rowlings is one hundred percent correct when she said that Tom Felton is not Draco Malfoy, nor is Jason Isaacs Lucius Malfoy, nor Alan Rickman Severus Snape. Therefore, I am left looking at the characters entirely as they are in the text, ignoring whatever it is in the movies that most people find so endearing.

That said, the way I see it, Lucius has already passed his point of no return, having fallen from grace both in the wizarding community and the Death Eater community. He will not be given the chance for redeption by the Ministry of Magic; they caught him operating as Lord Voldemort's lieutenant in a mission to recieve the prophesy that was recorded about Harry Potter and the Dark Lord, a bit of knowledge Voldemort is keen to get his hands on as he believes it holds the secret that will allow him to finish off Harry once and for all, leaving the way clear for him to take over the world, in true bad guy fashion. I think people are not struck as they should be by the enormity of the charges facing Lucius, and also are not taking into account the current political situation in the wizarding world. Whenever the wizarding public begins to cry out about what little success they are having at tracking down and detaining Death Eaters, they can point to Lucius and say, "Yeah, but look, we got one of You-Know-Who's lieutenants serving a long stint in Azkaban! We must be doing something right." To allow Lucius, who has the potential to be useful to the Ministry of Magic from a propaganda standppoint, to escape from Azkaban, would be even more egg on the face of the Ministry than they are currently dealing with. So rest assured that Ministry is most likely guarding him extremely well, thus making it unlikely that Lucius can break himself out (Lucius is no Dumbledore or Voldemort, he is not a good enough wizard to do it on his own). His only other option, then, is to be sprung by Voldemort, who is content to leave Lucius in prison while he watches the Malfoy family founder like a snake whose head has been cut off.

I see the prognosis of the future for the Malfoy's to be incredibly grim. Lucius most likely will never regain the prestige he once held in the wizarding world, and it does not seem he will ever become as important to the Dark Lord as he once was. I see him either dying or rotting in prison. As for his family, I cannot see them surviving the seventh book. Bad karma has to catch up with them eventually, right?

Even tbough Lucius is a dark character...I find he's more scared then evil. He's acting out of fear in my opinion. So is Narcissa...she has more fear in her then Lucius. However, I don't see how anyone can see that Lucius is an only child. I could see him as either an oldest child...or a youngest child. Nowhere in between...but definitely not an only child. I find only children are a lot more generous then Lucius is. They have some wild and crazy ideas...but they love to share and have fun. Lucius is more about popularity, fame, power...and above all...recognition. He likes being known for what he's done...unless it's embarrassing. Then I doubt he'd want others to know.

My biggest question is...do you think he's worried about Draco working for Moldy Voldy while he's in Azkaban???

Wow, this is longer than I wanted it to be!


However, if there was a sister, she would have gotten married or whatever, and I don't think that anyone would care as much as if there was a boy. (While typing this, it makes me realize how medival the pureblood familes are)


:agree: Extremely medieval to the point of being laughable!

I do not know if it is my overactive imagination playing tricks upon me (once again! :p ), but I have the distinct impression <snip> you may perhaps have a bit of a sweet spot for the Malfoy men.

:lol: :lol: I know that was all sarcasm but yes, the concept of where the character ends and the actor begins, does get in the way of my interpretations. I know it does. So just for reassurance, no, it's not just your imagination! ;)


But so you ask for my thoughts, and so I shall tell them to you, but as no explanation is complete without a person also explaining why they think that way, you must prepare for me to expound upon my philosophy. However, before I start, I wish to say that the following is not intended to insult or infuriate anyone, it is my personal opinion, which I think is justified.

I ask for your thoughts in the hopes you'll tell me why. The way I figure it, the only way anyone can learn more is by listening to those with differing opinions. It rounds you out as a person.


I think that the general hope for the possible redemption of such characters as Lucius Malfoy, his son and perhaps even Severus Snape, his apparent pet, has a lot to do with the cinema and the coincidence that all three characters are portrayed by men who are widely held to be some of the hadsomest around, not to mention the fairer sex's age-old love for the 'bad boy' (something that never fails to baffle me--after all, bad boys almost certainly grow to become bad men).

It almost hurts because it hits so close to home, but I think you're very right in your thinking. People, men and women, have this idea that the characters they see are the actors portraying them and it becomes difficult to differentiate between them. It's what makes these people good actors: their ability to make you believe in them and their role.


That said, I also think Ms. Rowlings is one hundred percent correct when she said that Tom Felton is not Draco Malfoy, nor is Jason Isaacs Lucius Malfoy, nor Alan Rickman Severus Snape. Therefore, I am left looking at the characters entirely as they are in the text, ignoring whatever it is in the movies that most people find so endearing.

Which is very wise-beyond-your-years of you.:tu: The fact that you actively practice the differentiation is admirable, as opposed to being someone like me, where I know in my head there's a difference but that doesn't stop me from getting sucked in to the proverbial vortex when I'm not paying attention. :lol:


Whenever the wizarding public begins to cry out about what little success they are having at tracking down and detaining Death Eaters, they can point to Lucius and say, "Yeah, but look, we got one of You-Know-Who's lieutenants serving a long stint in Azkaban! We must be doing something right." To allow Lucius, who has the potential to be useful to the Ministry of Magic from a propaganda standppoint, to escape from Azkaban, would be even more egg on the face of the Ministry than they are currently dealing with.

I try (:blush:)say this in all seriousness, without Jason-Isaacs-as-Lucius-Malfoy staring me in the face, that I still think that Lucius-alive-in-jail isn't going to be the end, whether that means he gets out and lives, dies in jail or gets out and dies. Just recently I remembered reading, in another thread, someone quoting a JKR interview (that I can't find! GRR!) where she said she wasn't going to have a 'non-ending'; that's to say, at the end of book 7 everyone has a definate future, dead or alive.

To me, Lucius alive in jail isn't a definitive enough ending for an, arguable, major bad guy. It strikes me as just vague enough that you don't say 'he could be doing anything' or descriptive enough that it's 'well that's the end of him'. I suppose for my own peace of mind, as selfish as this sounds, that I want more. True, she's not writing these for me, but having one of the, again arguably, major bad guys ending the story in jail just isn't juicy enough! I'd be ok with one of the badground characters, like Amycus or McNair, ending in jail. But for ones like Lucius, I'm hoping for lots of fireworks and explosions!!!


(Lucius is no Dumbledore or Voldemort, he is not a good enough wizard to do it on his own).

No arguments there. He's good but not that good.


I see him either dying or rotting in prison. As for his family, I cannot see them surviving the seventh book. Bad karma has to catch up with them eventually, right?

I've changed my mind so many times on the Malfoy family that I don't even know where I stand anymore! You're probably pretty accurate in your assertation that bad karma will get them in the end. To what extent, though, I don't know. As long as it's a definitive enough ending, life or death, I'm happy.

However, I don't see how anyone can see that Lucius is an only child. I could see him as either an oldest child...or a youngest child. Nowhere in between...but definitely not an only child. I find only children are a lot more generous then Lucius is.

I'm not sure about that. I guess I figured Lucius was an only child because of how exacting and demanding he is with Draco. What I've seen in families with one child is that child has a lot expected of them, being the only one, so they can be tough and callous sometimes because of the frusterations at having so much expected of them.

Further jumping over to this bit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_order)on Wikipedia, it describes only children as "...only children never lose the position of primacy and power they hold in their family...Children start to manifest adult behaviors and spoiling is likely to happen. Arguably this creates a self centered attitude, and impatience with other people...".

To add to your idea of Lucius as an only child, I concede there with the notion that "...This child can also be considered as the first-born.". So first-borns are credited as "...firstborns are in danger of acquiring perfectionistic... behaviors...[they are described as] serious, take-charge, goal-oriented, aggressive, exacting, conservative, organized, jealous, fearful, high achievers, competitive, high self-esteem, and anxious...[and] Later in life they may become authoritarian or strict". Plus first time parents (Lucius and Narcissa) "... put [the first/only] child under a lot of pressure to succeed....", which with the past descriptions would lean towards a learned behaviour, in my mind.

So from all(!) that, I'd say he's an only child or a first born!


My biggest question is...do you think he's worried about Draco working for Moldy Voldy while he's in Azkaban???

I'm not sure he knows. From what I gathered of the 'Spinner's End' chapter, Draco's mission was a development after Lucius was locked up and it's unlikely that the other DE's would tell Lucius because they probably don't know either...?

I'm entirely with those who think Lucius is a first-born or an only - not just because of his behaviour but because he seems to have inherited Malfoy Manor. Personally, I see his behaviour and attitudes as learned although for all I know he could have been born mean.

It's very hard to distinguish between the characters and the actors who have brought them to life, and I find this particularly hard with Jason Isaacs/Malfoy as he is doing such a damn fine job of it! However I don't feel that even in the movies, Lucius is a sympathetic character. He comes across as sneering and self-centred and I think that's an accurate interpretation of the books. I do agree that it'd be a shame if Lucius just moulders away in prison and we hear no more of him as he is an interesting character and I'd be sorry not to read about him again. Draco is not sufficiently like him to be an interest-substitute.

Whether Lucius is fearful in prison I don't know. What would such a man's attitude be to a stretch inside? Angry, certainly. Frustrated too. But probably not afraid. He has no Dementors to torment him and he is safe from torture at Voldemort's hands. Does he feel humiliated? Or is his arrogance and self-assurance holding him up in there? It depends on how he is being treated. If he has been provided with a comfy bed, an armchair and the wizard equivalent of a TV he might feel OK. If he has a hard bunk, a stool and nothing to interest him with, he might become bitter. And who is he blaming for it all? I bet it's not Lucius Malfoy!!

The only way I can see him ever getting out of Azkaban is by doing a deal with the Ministry and they are just daft enough to consider that, especially if they thought he could lead them to Voldemort. And the Ministry don't know that Harry and co are hot on the trail of horcruxes. They could snatch at any chance they get. Even so, I don't think Lucius will change his spots and become genuinely committed to the Ministry even if it meant his freedom. I think he'd still be finding ways to weasel himself back into a position of dominance somewhere.

I do agree that it'd be a shame if Lucius just moulders away in prison and we hear no more of him as he is an interesting character and I'd be sorry not to read about him again. Draco is not sufficiently like him to be an interest-substitute.

Even so, I don't think Lucius will change his spots and become genuinely committed to the Ministry even if it meant his freedom. I think he'd still be finding ways to weasel himself back into a position of dominance somewhere.
Isaacs definitely does a tremendous job in his role. Personally, I've never had a hard time differentiating him from his character--he seems like such a nice man and such a consummate actor and fan--but maybe its just that I don't go for long blonde hair :no: :lol:

I completely agree that Draco is not a 'substitute' for Lucius in the story and will thus have to have his own resolution. I think Draco's final loyalties will depend entirely on Snape's, he'll go along with his mentor IMO. Lucius may be a true Slytherin but he's trapped below deck on Tom's sinking ship--I don't think he could or would betray Riddle. I suppose there's a fine line between vicious git in Draco and psychopathic killer in Bellatrix--he's just too big of a bad guy to turn or not be resolved IMO.

I for one hope to see Arthur (and/or Dobby) have a hand in his ultimate demise. Let him take the brunt of the Malfoy karma and leave Draco to choose his way.

I'm not sure about that. I guess I figured Lucius was an only child because of how exacting and demanding he is with Draco. What I've seen in families with one child is that child has a lot expected of them, being the only one, so they can be tough and callous sometimes because of the frusterations at having so much expected of them.

Further jumping over to this bit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_order)on Wikipedia, it describes only children as "...only children never lose the position of primacy and power they hold in their family...Children start to manifest adult behaviors and spoiling is likely to happen. Arguably this creates a self centered attitude, and impatience with other people...".

To add to your idea of Lucius as an only child, I concede there with the notion that "...This child can also be considered as the first-born.". So first-borns are credited as "...firstborns are in danger of acquiring perfectionistic... behaviors...[they are described as] serious, take-charge, goal-oriented, aggressive, exacting, conservative, organized, jealous, fearful, high achievers, competitive, high self-esteem, and anxious...[and] Later in life they may become authoritarian or strict". Plus first time parents (Lucius and Narcissa) "... put [the first/only] child under a lot of pressure to succeed....", which with the past descriptions would lean towards a learned behaviour, in my mind.

So from all(!) that, I'd say he's an only child or a first born!

I still believe that he was an oldest child. The reason that I believe that...is because they're just as demanding as only children. The only difference is they have even more pressure then only children. They have more pressure put on them due to the fact that they have to be role models for the younger siblings. So they have to be careful with what they do. They have this feeling of having to be perfect...or a failure. And I couldn't see Lucius wanting to be a failure. If he was an only child...he wouldn't not have told Draco to play nice and then shove him off. But he did. Therefore, he took control of a situation that could have ended in fists between Draco and Harry. He played the "role model". The oldest child...takes charge. The only child complains. Watch the difference between Draco and Lucius...we know for a fact that Draco is an only child. And they have nothing aside from looks and beliefs in common.

I for one hope to see Arthur (and/or Dobby) have a hand in his ultimate demise. Let him take the brunt of the Malfoy karma and leave Draco to choose his way.

I like the idea of Lucius taking the brunt of the Malfoy karma! And for once not being able to bully his way out of it.

:lol: :lol: I know that was all sarcasm but yes, the concept of where the character ends and the actor begins, does get in the way of my interpretations. I know it does. So just for reassurance, no, it's not just your imagination! ;)
I apologize if I came across as sarcastic; I was feeling rather silly when I wrote that and when I feel silly, my writing becomes rather roundabout and playful, though, unfortunately, playfulness of manner can be rather hard to convey via written posts on a forum thread.
I ask for your thoughts in the hopes you'll tell me why. The way I figure it, the only way anyone can learn more is by listening to those with differing opinions. It rounds you out as a person.
Very true; we are all here to exchange thoughts and opinions on most of our favorite book series in hopes of coming out with a better understanding of not only the characters but people in general.
It almost hurts because it hits so close to home, but I think you're very right in your thinking. People, men and women, have this idea that the characters they see are the actors portraying them and it becomes difficult to differentiate between them. It's what makes these people good actors: their ability to make you believe in them and their role.
Personally, I adore Jason Isaacs' portrayal of Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies; he is an amazingly talented actor and plays bad extremely well, whether his character be a dark wizard or a morally bankrupt Redcoat in Revolutionary war era America (like in the The Patriot, in which he played opposite Mel Gibson, another very talented actor, religious controversy aside). I enjoy watching him perform on screen and I suppose he is handsome in an old-enough-to-be-my-daddy sort of way :lol: The same can be said of Alan Rickman's talent and looks, I suppose (though he is old enough to be my grand-daddy!). However, I have only ever seen him in the Harry Potter movies and Love Actually. I especially enjoyed the scene in the fourth movie when he kept whacking Ron & Harry in the head; there is something in the rather meanly sarcastic way Rickman interprets Snape’s character that tickles my rather dry sense of humour and caustic wit.
Which is very wise-beyond-your-years of you.:tu: The fact that you actively practice the differentiation is admirable, as opposed to being someone like me, where I know in my head there's a difference but that doesn't stop me from getting sucked in to the proverbial vortex when I'm not paying attention. :lol:
Thank you. However, I suspect the reason I am so good at differentiating from movie and book is because my rather unfortunate penchant for compartmentalizing thoughts and emotions. I suppose that makes me rather a Slytherin, does it not? However, I have always preferred cats to snakes
I try (:blush:)say this in all seriousness, without Jason-Isaacs-as-Lucius-Malfoy staring me in the face, that I still think that Lucius-alive-in-jail isn't going to be the end, whether that means he gets out and lives, dies in jail or gets out and dies. Just recently I remembered reading, in another thread, someone quoting a JKR interview (that I can't find! GRR!) where she said she wasn't going to have a 'non-ending'; that's to say, at the end of book 7 everyone has a definite future, dead or alive.
I must say that I am glad to hear that there will most likely be a finite ending to the series rather than some sort of ambiguous, who-knows-what-it-means?-ending. And I agree with you that we have not heard the last of any of the three Malfoys. However, I just do not believe it likely that J.K. Rowling will waste valuable creative energy and page space on cooking up an elaborately long and complicated ending for any of the Malfoys, what with Harry finding the rest of the Horcruxes, the final battle with Voldemort and reconciling the mystique that surrounds Severus Snape. I personally think that if any character has the priority as far as explaining his motives and who it is he really serves, it is the infamous Potions Master.
To me, Lucius alive in jail isn't a definitive enough ending for an, arguable, major bad guy. It strikes me as just vague enough that you don't say 'he could be doing anything' or descriptive enough that it's 'well that's the end of him'. I suppose for my own peace of mind, as selfish as this sounds, that I want more. True, she's not writing these for me, but having one of the, again arguably, major bad guys ending the story in jail just isn't juicy enough! I'd be ok with one of the background characters, like Amycus or McNair, ending in jail. But for ones like Lucius, I'm hoping for lots of fireworks and explosions!!!

I've changed my mind so many times on the Malfoy family that I don't even know where I stand anymore! You're probably pretty accurate in your assertation that bad karma will get them in the end. To what extent, though, I don't know. As long as it's a definitive enough ending, life or death, I'm happy.

I suppose I can understand the desire to see more of Lucius as he is an admittedly interesting character and the most prominent Death Eater we have seen in almost the entire series. I suppose when it comes down to it, I would predict death for Lucius, though I do not think that death will involve rotting away in jail until a ripe old age. I think that is a slightly better death than he deserves, to be honest. It is probably far more likely he will reap what he has sewn; after all, as the saying goes, you die as you live.
Whether Lucius is fearful in prison I don't know. What would such a man's attitude be to a stretch inside? Angry, certainly. Frustrated too. But probably not afraid. He has no Dementors to torment him and he is safe from torture at Voldemort's hands. Does he feel humiliated? Or is his arrogance and self-assurance holding him up in there? It depends on how he is being treated. If he has been provided with a comfy bed, an armchair and the wizard equivalent of a TV he might feel OK. If he has a hard bunk, a stool and nothing to interest him with, he might become bitter. And who is he blaming for it all? I bet it's not Lucius Malfoy!!
Lucius Malfoy blame himself for the undesirable consequences of his own actions? Most certainly not! Why blame yourself when you can blame anyone and everyone else? After all, Draco has made it quite clear that he feels the blame lies with Harry and his friends for his father's imprisonment; as a matter of fact, I think he even stepped on Harry's face in some sort of revenge-seeking snit.
The only way I can see him ever getting out of Azkaban is by doing a deal with the Ministry and they are just daft enough to consider that, especially if they thought he could lead them to Voldemort. And the Ministry don't know that Harry and co are hot on the trail of horcruxes. They could snatch at any chance they get. Even so, I don't think Lucius will change his spots and become genuinely committed to the Ministry even if it meant his freedom. I think he'd still be finding ways to weasel himself back into a position of dominance somewhere.
I disagree with your assessment of the Ministry; while they are most certainly daft, I do not think they will be letting Lucius go anytime soon. They have to know that Voldemort is not dumb enough to let the places where he hangs his hat to go unprotected, I am quite sure that he has some way of keeping his minions from spilling useful information in the event that they are captured.

I'm entirely with those who think Lucius is a first-born or an only - not just because of his behaviour but because he seems to have inherited Malfoy Manor. Personally, I see his behaviour and attitudes as learned although for all I know he could have been born mean.

:lol: I totally forgot about that whole inheriting-the-manor bit. Yeah, that should definately signify first-born/only-child status!


It's very hard to distinguish between the characters and the actors who have brought them to life, and I find this particularly hard with Jason Isaacs/Malfoy as he is doing such a damn fine job of it! However I don't feel that even in the movies, Lucius is a sympathetic character. He comes across as sneering and self-centred and I think that's an accurate interpretation of the books. I do agree that it'd be a shame if Lucius just moulders away in prison and we hear no more of him as he is an interesting character and I'd be sorry not to read about him again. Draco is not sufficiently like him to be an interest-substitute.

Very true. I like Draco and all but he's not Lucius. As you say, they're completely different when you start breaking things down. You could argue (in a different thread! ;)) that Draco is redeemable whereas I'm not sure Lucius is. Sure I can try to rationalize his behaviour, almost as if it's a personal affront to me, but in the end, you and lovehopeslost are right; he's not someone you can really sympathize with.


And who is he blaming for it all? I bet it's not Lucius Malfoy!!

Of course not!


The only way I can see him ever getting out of Azkaban is by doing a deal with the Ministry and they are just daft enough to consider that, especially if they thought he could lead them to Voldemort. <snip> Even so, I don't think Lucius will change his spots and become genuinely committed to the Ministry even if it meant his freedom. I think he'd still be finding ways to weasel himself back into a position of dominance somewhere.

Interesting thought with the Ministry. In some ways I almost think that, you're right, they may be just dumb enough to fall for the same trick twice. And, seeing as there is a good bit of comparing JKR's work to real life events, you figure it's possible that they'd do that. It's happened in history before where the ruling group tries to make a snitch out of a 'reformed' inmate. And, as far as I know, it's never worked...!

:agree: Whether Lucius says he's innocent or not, I don't see honest reform. Backtalking like crazy to get out of the hole he's in, maybe, but not honest reform.

Isaacs definitely does a tremendous job in his role. Personally, I've never had a hard time differentiating him from his character--he seems like such a nice man and such a consummate actor and fan--but maybe its just that I don't go for long blonde hair :no: :lol:

Y'know, I didn't think I did either until him...:lol:


I for one hope to see Arthur (and/or Dobby) have a hand in his ultimate demise. Let him take the brunt of the Malfoy karma and leave Draco to choose his way.

I'd be alright with that. The same way I'd be alright with Neville *getting* Bellatrix. Something about the whole 'atone for your misdeeds' appeals to me.

I still believe that he was an oldest child. <snip> The oldest child...takes charge. The only child complains. Watch the difference between Draco and Lucius...we know for a fact that Draco is an only child. And they have nothing aside from looks and beliefs in common.

Interesting thought; one I hadn't really considered but I guess it does wind up being the most telling, doesn't it? :agree: I'm gonna go back and reread the Draco/Lucius lines. There probably is something to be said regarding watching the way they handle their difficulties.

I apologize if I came across as sarcastic; I was feeling rather silly when I wrote that and when I feel silly, my writing becomes rather roundabout and playful, though, unfortunately, playfulness of manner can be rather hard to convey via written posts on a forum thread.

Nothing wrong with sarcasm!:) I just wanted to make sure I wasn't taking it as geniune when you were being sarcastic. Tres embarassing!


I enjoy watching him perform on screen and I suppose he is handsome in an old-enough-to-be-my-daddy sort of way :lol: The same can be said of Alan Rickman's talent and looks, I suppose (though he is old enough to be my grand-daddy!). However, I have only ever seen him in the Harry Potter movies and Love Actually. I especially enjoyed the scene in the fourth movie when he kept whacking Ron & Harry in the head; there is something in the rather meanly sarcastic way Rickman interprets Snape’s character that tickles my rather dry sense of humour and caustic wit.

I try to bypass the whole old-enough-to-be-your-father/grandfather bit (I heart Snape/Alan Rickman also). Or at least I don't go spreading that knowledge around. It creeps people out! :lol: Well, people not on these forums anyway! *Darling Jason* is quite good in 'Friends With Money' so I suggest that one. Even if you don't like the movie itself, he's still really good.


Thank you. However, I suspect the reason I am so good at differentiating from movie and book is because my rather unfortunate penchant for compartmentalizing thoughts and emotions. I suppose that makes me rather a Slytherin, does it not? However, I have always preferred cats to snakes

Yeah, I've never been good at hiding my emotions. I'm one of those hearts-on-their-sleeve people, love it or not. I can only hide my emotions for so long. So is that Gryffindor or Hufflepuff? I draw those pretty equally on quizzes...

As far as being rather Slytherin...well [points to avatar]. :lol:


I just do not believe it likely that J.K. Rowling will waste valuable creative energy and page space on cooking up an elaborately long and complicated ending for any of the Malfoys, what with Harry finding the rest of the Horcruxes, the final battle with Voldemort and reconciling the mystique that surrounds Severus Snape. I personally think that if any character has the priority as far as explaining his motives and who it is he really serves, it is the infamous Potions Master.

Very true. I agree, I don't think JKR will spend a ton of time making up an escape route for dear Lucius. It'll probably be some short expose like they do at the beginning of PS where the whole bit of dialogue is just to bring the reader up to date without having to do the escape first person. I forget what they refer to that as? Sort of a "You escaped!" "Yes I did, Harry Potter! Now you must die!" type of deal.

Ohhhhhh yes. Snape has some serious 'splainin' to do!


I suppose when it comes down to it, I would predict death for Lucius, though I do not think that death will involve rotting away in jail until a ripe old age. I think that is a slightly better death than he deserves, to be honest. It is probably far more likely he will reap what he has sewn; after all, as the saying goes, you die as you live.

The aforementioned black Karma? I hope so too. Seeing the evil characters get their cumuppance makes for a certain satisfaction at the end. And if he's going to die, which he probably will, lets just hope for something spectacular. Who do you think needs to kill him? I can't think of anyone he's personally done wrong. Just wrong-doings in general!

Actually, that idea that he hasn't done wrong to anyone personally was what made me think he was going to live originally (before spending extended periods of time in this thread). The other major DE's, like Bellatrix and Wormtail, owe their lives/sanities to someone else. Who does Lucius need to appease? Maybe Ginny, for that whole let's-sneak-a-possessed-diary/Horcrux-in-your-Transiguration-text? :shrug:


I disagree with your assessment of the Ministry; while they are most certainly daft, I do not think they will be letting Lucius go anytime soon. They have to know that Voldemort is not dumb enough to let the places where he hangs his hat to go unprotected, I am quite sure that he has some way of keeping his minions from spilling useful information in the event that they are captured.

You've got a good point with Voldemort being very wary of what his groupies say when they get captured. Any chance, and this is way out there, that they all have UV's with him? You figure the first time LV *died* so many of them renounced their old ways. I don't know that LV would want to make that same mistake in letting his *reformed* DE's get away from him too quickly. It seems like they made short work of Karkaroff when he tried to escape...LV has spies everywhere!

The Ministry wouldn't let Lucius go on purpose. I could just see them trying to get Lucius to help them and have Lucius sort of wander away...Perhaps to get back to LV. Perhaps to his own demise. Who knows?

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?- I believe he will end up being more loyal to his family, he allows Volswemort to boss him around in order to protect of his family.
What did he know about Riddle’s diary?-He knew everything I'm sure...I dont think Voldermort would have trusted him if he hadn't known.
Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father? I think he tries to be...
What is/was his relationship to Arthur Weasley- co-worker/enemy
his son Draco- a harsh and critical father
Albus Dumbledore-A former student/ and a current adversary
Narcissa Malfoy-husband, we really don't know how he treats her
other Death Eaters-looks down on them, wants to be Voldermorts #1
Severus Snape-Close personal friend
Harry Potter-hates him for what he did to Voldermort, and looks down on him for being friends with muggle-borns
Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP-No, he didn't he doesn't really want to help Voldermort.
Will he escape from Azkaban-Voldermort will break him out.
What kind of role will he play in the last book-A fairly minor one, but will have a bit of fun
Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son-yes very much so

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
Probably both, but more so to himself then his family as an afterthought. He doesn't really seem like hes foolish enough to go against Voldemort but you never know.
Being 'pure-blood' he will have feelings of obligation to the protection of his family, but he generally doesn't appear (to me) to be all that paternally oriented.

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?-He knew everything I'm sure...I dont think Voldermort would have trusted him if he hadn't known.


I doubt that he knew the diary was a horcrux - at least Dumbledore later said that if Lucius had known the Diary was a horcrux he'd have treated it with more reverence. He certainly knew that the Diary was enchanted to open up the Chamber of Secrets and release Slytherin's monster. That was what he was using it to do. I'm not sure he would even know how the enchantment would work - ie that there was a memory of Tom Riddle inside it which would possess a student - not that I think that would have made much difference to him if he had known.

So no, I don't think Voldemort trusted Lucius enough to tell him the Diary was a horcrux, which leads me to assume that if he didn't trust Lucius with information about horcruxes he probably didn't trust anyone.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
Probably both, but more so to himself then his family as an afterthought. He doesn't really seem like hes foolish enough to go against Voldemort but you never know.
Being 'pure-blood' he will have feelings of obligation to the protection of his family, but he generally doesn't appear (to me) to be all that paternally oriented.

Well, we all assume that Malfoy was in with Voldermort really...For all we know Voldermort regards Lusiuc as a slug, another pawn...

I think there are other supporters he trusts way more than Lucius..for the exact reason stated aboce. Lucius would look to his own interests first not to Voldermorts...

I don't know that Voldemort has it in him to trust anyone. All his DEs seem to be pawns to him and they all seem to be disposable.

What did he see in Lucius? I suspect he saw a man with money, influence and authority. And a man who was willing to put all those things at Voldemort's disposal. He saw a man with few moral scruples and with a deep-seated belief in the supremacy of pure-bloods. A tool that Voldemort could make good use of. But trust him? Of course not.

I think Lucius Malfoy is a sociopath, someone who knows what he's doing is wrong but simply does not care.

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
I think his true loyalty is only to himself, not Voldemort, not his family, but just himself.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
I don't know if he knew it held the potential to bring Voldemort back. However, I do think he saw it as a cursed object.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
No, as I said, I think he's a sociopath. As such, I don't think he feels any love for his son. And if he has no love for his son, he can't be a good father.

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

Bellatrix - business relationship. Though it could prove interesting if the two of them are having an affair, though I doubt that would happen in Harry Potter books.

Arthur Weasley - I think it should be obvious that they loathe each other.

Draco - his greatest disappointment.

Dumbledore - loathes him.

Narcissa - hard to say.

Death Eaters - business relationship only.

Severus Snape - doubt they interact much but probably tolerate each other.

Harry - wants him dead.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
No, he didn't need to make a spectacle of himself. He could have shot Avada Kedavra before Harry ever knew he was there.


6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did or if he really had no role in the last book.

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
I doubt Lucius cares.

I think it's very interesting the way Lucius Malfoy talks tough to Draco and snipes at him and tries to humiliate him verbally, much in the same style that he (Lucius) treats his "enemies," the Weasleys and Harry.

Lucius seems to look on Draco as an extension of himself. He wants Draco to be an object of personal pride. Yet he also is hostile. We get the sense that Lucius is always disappointed in his expectations of reflected glory, and he lets Draco know. There is none of the praise or kindness or understanding that Draco probaby hoped for in early life.

It would suggest that this is how Lucius's father or mother controlled young Lucius -- by making sure Lucius' performance was never good enough for them and the family, every tack he took was somehow wrong. Lucius developed a nasty bark, but his bite has often been ineffectual.

Draco obviously started out loyal to his father, but somehow when they've conflicted (as over the Hand of Glory), it seems as if Draco regularly manages to get what he wants out of his father. Lucius' false toughness gives way to indulgence.

It may be that Draco always was by nature the stronger character of the two. By Book 5 Draco had a taste of "authority," by the start of Book 6 he was bossing his mother, and if Lucius were to return home, I think he might find his son openly contemptuous of him, the tables turned.

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I don't think Lucius will let it get to such a discusion, should he escape Azkaban. But if it does, I think he'd choose his family.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

Probably exactly what Dumbledore told us. DD obviously got his informstion from Snape who is an old friend of Lucius. His information was probably well founded.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

Well, it depends on what goals you set. Draco was one of if not the first teenage DE and given a personal mission by Lord Voldemort.

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

I see him being very good friends with Bellatrix as being Lord voldemort's first leuitanants not to mention family in law. But still I think he looked down on her for getting herself caught. He probably sees Arthur Weasley as his rival and equel being a pureblood.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

Yes.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

I actually think we have seen all we are ever going to of Lucius. Though i'm not happy with it.

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

If he escapes then i think he'll tell his son to live with the DE's life knowing that he'd die otherwise.

I think Lucius is a very, very interesting character. Perhaps it may be just because I've been interested in the Malfoys from the very beginning, but I don't think Lucius is as "evil" as he's played out to be. Or maybe that's just what I want to believe. I'm partial to this family. Here are my thoughts:

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?
I believe that, in the beginning, Lucius would've done everything in his power to stay loyal to Voldemort. However, as time went on (and this happens with almost every group of "baddies,") Lucius began to work for himself and himself only. I honestly believe that Lucius could outsmart Voldemort if he really wanted to. What Lucius will decide to do when/if he gets out of Azkaban, I can't guess, and that is simply because he's unpredictable. I do think he's in it for himself now, though.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?
We were told that Lucius had orders to hold onto the diary until he recieved word on what to do with it. That word never came. I believe he knew the diary has some sort of importance significance to Voldemort... which is why he got rid of it. He was clearing all sorts of Dark Magic items out of his manor in Chamber of Secrets. I think he figured that because the diary belonged to the Dark Lord, he'd be in deep water if it was found in his manor, especially after he'd already been accused of being a Death Eater and escaped justice by lying.

So, he gives the diary to Ginny Weasley. Do I think he intended to give the diary to Ginny from the beginning? No. The run-in with the Weasley's at Flourish & Blotts is probably where he decided: why not give it to Arthur's youngest daughter? After all, how would it look if the child of the one who works in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts office is caught with a bewitched diary?

I think all he intended to do with the diary is discredit Arthur and his family; he didn't know the diary was a Horcrux, or what it was capable of.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?
This is a difficult question. I like to think of it this way: Lucius does love and care for his family, he just doesn't know how/is afraid to show it. When it comes to the way he treats Draco - I think he believes he is "toughening" Draco up for when the time comes for him to join Voldemort's circle. There's no love in Voldemort's ranks and perhaps Lucius wants his son to know this. Voldemort won't pamper him like Narcissa does, and he won't always get his way. I do think that deep down he has that "father" quality, he just has to reeeeeeally dig it out. :lol:

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
I'm not sure about all the characters listed in the question. I think it's clear (to me, at least) that Lucius and Bella have a bit of a "competition" going on when it comes to Voldemort's attention and praise.

As for Arthur, I think all Lucius wants to do is discredit him. He said himself that Arthur is a "disgrace" to the wizarding world. I just think all he wants to do is make Arthur's life a miserable, living hell.

Lucius' relationship with Narcissa and Draco, like I said in my answer to the last question, is sort of difficult to understand, mainly because we don't see very much of Narcissa. Narcissa did defend him, though, in the Spinner's End chapter of HBP. Whether she was just defending him because she felt that, as his wife, it was her duty or if she really, truly meant what she said, it's hard to tell. When you get a "baddie's" family involved, it's hard to tell if they truly love their family or if they are just seen as a trophy and used as cover-up. Personally, I think in the end Lucius will do whatever he can to protect his wife and son. At least, I hope he will.

I'm not sure about the others listed. I think he is just as untrusting of the other Death Eaters as Voldemort is. Like Voldemort, he has an extremely close circle of those he believes he can go to, but he keeps an eye on even them.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?
Yes, I believe he did. It's clear throughout the entire Ministry of Magic scene that Lucius' mind was set on nothing but that prophecy. I think he knew he had to succeed in this, or else.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?
I do believe Lucius, along with the other Death Eaters that are in Azkaban, will escape. What role he will play, I don't know, but I have a feeling at least one of the Malfoys will play an extremely huge part in the last book

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?
Again, hard to say. I would think that after learning about Draco's task, Lucius might open his eyes and see what a dangerous position he's put his son in. Hagrid said that once a wizard crosses to the Dark Side, nothing or no one matters to them anymore. I like to think this isn't completely true, but...

like I said, I'm partial to the Malfoys. (Why do I like the bad guys? Or maybe it's just because they're so attractive in the films. I hate how films affect your judgement on the books.)

Again, hard to say. I would think that after learning about Draco's task, Lucius might open his eyes and see what a dangerous position he's put his son in. Hagrid said that once a wizard crosses to the Dark Side, nothing or no one matters to them anymore. I like to think this isn't completely true, but...



I agree. Only after hearing about what Voldemort put Draco through will Lucius turn against him. I don't think that he really cared about his family if he still supports Voldemort.

I believe that, in the beginning, Lucius would've done everything in his power to stay loyal to Voldemort. However, as time went on (and this happens with almost every group of "baddies,") Lucius began to work for himself and himself only. I honestly believe that Lucius could outsmart Voldemort if he really wanted to. What Lucius will decide to do when/if he gets out of Azkaban, I can't guess, and that is simply because he's unpredictable. I do think he's in it for himself now, though.

Hmm, I disagree, I don't think that Lucius would be capable of outsmarting Voldemort at all. Lucius seems to me like a puppet - he knows his roles, and that's what he sticks to. He understands how to get people on his side (money and fear)...but when it comes to Voldemort, I see him as just as weak as the next ordinary person. But of course, that's only my opinion.

He would only change if there was something big...and depending on how much he actually cares for Draco, Draco's task could be what "wakes him up" and causes him to start thinking for himself.

Hmm, I disagree, I don't think that Lucius would be capable of outsmarting Voldemort at all. Lucius seems to me like a puppet - he knows his roles, and that's what he sticks to. He understands how to get people on his side (money and fear)...but when it comes to Voldemort, I see him as just as weak as the next ordinary person. But of course, that's only my opinion.


Actually Lucius is smart enough himself, he against popular opinion is a better contender for becoming the next dark lord rather than Bellatrix. He is clever and tweak situations for his own benefit, like he did in case of the Diary, it was a wonderful plan, which failed. Otherwise such scheming is not under the ability of a common man. He was the one who lead the Death Eaters to obtain the Prophecy, this shows that Voldemort also recognizes his potential. ;)

Actually Lucius is smart enough himself, he against popular opinion is a better contender for becoming the next dark lord rather than Bellatrix. He is clever and tweak situations for his own benefit, like he did in case of the Diary, it was a wonderful plan, which failed. Otherwise such scheming is not under the ability of a common man. He was the one who lead the Death Eaters to obtain the Prophecy, this shows that Voldemort also recognizes his potential. ;)

I agree that he is better suited for becoming the next dark lord above Bellatrix...she's not strategic enough to be successful in my opinion.

I'm sure Voldemort does realize the strengths of his Death Eaters, and takes advantage of it. But Voldemort won't let any of them think that they can be as good as him, otherwise he'd have some trouble getting them to obey him.

I wonder what Lucius was up to in the 13 years between Voldemort's demise and the graveyard scence in GoF, because the majority of his actions are motivated by Voldemort, whether it was the diary, or corruption within the ministry...

I wonder what Lucius was up to in the 13 years between Voldemort's demise and the graveyard scence in GoF, because the majority of his actions are motivated by Voldemort, whether it was the diary, or corruption within the ministry...

He still had fear for Voldemort. He knew that Voldemort wasn't dead, though he wanted to believe it. He isn't devoted to Voldemort, he is with him only because of fear. Bella is devoted to Voldemort, but not Lucius, he works out of fear. He knows what happened to Regulus thus he can't chicken out. He is stuck with his wrongs which lead him to Voldemort in the first place.

There won't be another Dark Lord. Look what happened last time, Voldemort was vanquisted and the whole thing was over like that. The Death Eaters are completely dependant on Voldermort to wage the war.

There won't be another Dark Lord. Look what happened last time, Voldemort was vanquisted and the whole thing was over like that. The Death Eaters are completely dependant on Voldermort to wage the war.

They weren't sure what to do, because they weren't sure that Voldemort was dead or alive. They believed him dead, but somewhere deep down inside they knew that he was still alive and this kept them from taking charge. Moreover they are not as capable as Voldemort so I am not saying that one of them will be, but if one had to choose amongst them, I would choose Lucius if you keep Snape out of the poll. :p

I'd say Lucius even with Snape in the poll. Snape is Lucius' lapdog even with Voldemort around.

Snape is Lucius' lapdog even with Voldemort around.

And what makes you say that? :huh:

He's been giving his son unfair scores for 6 years.

They weren't sure what to do, because they weren't sure that Voldemort was dead or alive. They believed him dead, but somewhere deep down inside they knew that he was still alive and this kept them from taking charge. Moreover they are not as capable as Voldemort so I am not saying that one of them will be, but if one had to choose amongst them, I would choose Lucius if you keep Snape out of the poll. :p

Voldemort had no second in command, so when he disappeared, and even if he had, I'm sure, and the Death Eater might even have been sure, that he wouldn't tell them if he had.

So it's likely that all of them were waiting for this secret second-in-command to take charge, because if any of them stepped up, they didn't know what was going to happen to them.

He's been giving his son unfair scores for 6 years.

Um...that can be out of friendship with Lucius. For that he doesn't need to be Lucius's lapdog. :no:

Voldemort had no second in command

Bella always claimed it. She always said that she was the most loyal supporter and Voldemort told her everything....something that a second in command is known for. ;)

Though I admit that she wasn't accounted as one, and Voldemort never called her one, but like you say the secret second in command.

Wasn't it Sirius who accused Snape of being Lucius' lapdog? I don't really see Snape in that position - he is cleverer than most and if he was being subservient to Lucius at any time, it would be for some Snapey purpose of his own. On the other hand Lucius might think that Snape is his lapdog but I suspect he is mistaken in that. I wonder what they really think of each other?

I wonder what they really think of each other?

I don't think that Lucius underestimates Snape and the fact that he is a shrewd man, because Lucius knows that Snape is their Spy and the fact that Voldemort trusts him, and like other he also think that Snape is a traitor and has hoodwinked Voldemort. Now if he thinks that, then he must know that Snape is more strong/clever/shrewd than anyone else.

As for Snape, I don't think he gives these things a thought. :lol:

Narcissa trusted Snape on the sole fact that he is Lucius' old friend, I do not believe that Lucius thought Snape was a traitor.

Narcissa trusted Snape on the sole fact that he is Lucius' old friend

Narcissa obviously said all that for she needed Snape's help. She needed Snape to do something that none would have consented for. And Snape complied not because he was Lucius's friend, but because he saw his own benefit in it. ;)

Well that depends on Snape's true alliagance, which we can't discuss here (or anywhere else, with the Triumvirate system we use here).

Well that depends on Snape's true alliagance

No it doesn't. I can prove that for all the cases. If Snape is good, then he is profiting by the situation because he is winning over Bellatrix and getting an wonderful opportunity to convince Draco (which Dumbledore eventually tried), else you always have the DIATSSISE theory that explains this situation exceptionally well.

If Snape is evil, then it is even more convenient, seeing that he would get an excellent opportunity of getting ever more close to Voldemort, for if Draco failed he would get the opportunity to kill Dumbledore and (like Draco said) steal the glory. ;)

Narcissa trusted Snape on the sole fact that he is Lucius' old friend.

I really can't see Lucius and Snape as friends. Or not the way I uinderstand friendship. Can you see Lucius offering friendship to a poor, scruffy, unknown half-blood like Severus? And the initiative in the friendship would have had to come from Lucius as he is the older, richer, more influential one.

But he has obviously got to know Snape pretty well for Narcissa to turn to Snape for help, although that might have as much to do with Snape's position at Hogwarts as Snape's friendship with Lucius. But they know each other well enough to be on first name terms, although that applies to Bella too and she & Snape are clearly not friends.

Perhaps Voldemort used to have chummy little socials at Voldemort Towers for his Death Eaters? :lol: (Although I thought he didn't want them to know who the other DEs were?)

Although I thought he didn't want them to know who the other DEs were?

I think that pertains only to those whose loyalty is not so pronounced, something like Noobie Death Eaters. :lol:

Narcissa indefinitely said that he is Lucius' old friend. And Bella and Snape may not always have been enemies. Sirius said Snape was friends with a group that nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters, he mentioned the Lestranges.

Narcissa indefinitely said that he is Lucius' old friend. And Bella and Snape may not always have been enemies. Sirius said Snape was friends with a group that nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters, he mentioned the Lestranges.

And because I was curious:

"I only meant...that nobody has yet succeeded...Severus...please...You are, you have always been, Draco's favorite teacher...You are Lucius's old friend...I beg you...You are the Dark Lord's favorite, his most trusted advisor...Will you speak to him, persuade him - ?"

I really can't see Lucius and Snape as friends. Or not the way I uinderstand friendship. Can you see Lucius offering friendship to a poor, scruffy, unknown half-blood like Severus? And the initiative in the friendship would have had to come from Lucius as he is the older, richer, more influential one.

I would guess the friendship dates from their schooldays. I agree with you that due to the difference in age and social status, Lucius Malfoy must have made the first overtures. So he must have seen something in Snape besides poor, scruffy, obscure, and half-blood. I think he is astute enough to have done so - we certainly know there is more to Snape. Snape as an adult is a powerful wizard with the cunning and talents to play the spy game well. Even as a child, he was exceptionally creative in magic, improving potions instructions and inventing new spells. I think Lucius saw the use in cultivating him. He would have been a 5th or 6th year by then, so perhaps he was already thinking ahead. Or, perhaps he simply saw a use for Snape in the moment - to amuse himself and his friends with the clever hexes Snape invented, for example.

I don't get a solid enough impression of Lucius from the scenes he is in to decide whether he has any understanding of friendship beyond the idea of mutual assistance/common goals. I can't think of an instance where I would conclude his actions might be motivated by something other than furthering his own goals.

I think Lucius saw the use in cultivating him. He would have been a 5th or 6th year by then, so perhaps he was already thinking ahead.

Lucius was in his fourth year when Snape was in his first year. ;)

Lucius was in his fourth year when Snape was in his first year. ;)

No. You could not possibly narrow it down to one year based on what we know, as Lucius's date of birth is unknown, and various estimates of Snape's birth year range from 1957-1960 based on different sources in canon. The Lexicon considers 1954 Lucius's birth year (based on the age given for him in the text of OotP), and considers 1958-9 most likely for Snape. Hence, 4-5 years apart in school as my guess.)

For the 'lap dog' comment, a much younger students is far more likely than someone close in age.

Lucius was a rich, snobby kid who took an interest in the Death Eaters because it looked like a way to fit in with the rich and powerful. His own feelings about half-bloods or muggle borns would have meshed well with the things the Death Eaters believed.

I agree that is probably what drew Lucius to the DEs. He was a pure-blood fanatic. Which is why (going back to the earlier discussions) I find it curious that he considered Snape a friend, as Snape was helf-blood.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I think he is loyal to himself and his family, he is scared of Voldemort and doesn't want to fight anymore, though he does want the wizard race 'purified.'

What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

I think he knew that it was important, and that it would release the monster into Hogwarts to kill muggleborns. He didn't know it was a horcrux, or he would have been afraid and respected it.

Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

No, I don't think he is a good father, because he gets himself put in Azkaban, and doesn't respect others. He isn't a positive example, and he is passing on outdated prejudices.

Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

I think he could have done a bit more, but not much more, to retrieve it, because, as above, I don't think he understood the significance.

Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

I think he might escape, he's played a part in almost all the other books, why not DH? I think he will again be a Death Eater, fighting Harry.

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

No, I think he will be too scared to take his revenge.

Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I think he is loyal to himself and his family, he is scared of Voldemort and doesn't want to fight anymore, though he does want the wizard race 'purified.'

I think he might escape, he's played a part in almost all the other books, why not DH? I think he will again be a Death Eater, fighting Harry.]
I'd be inconsolable if he did not return! She's build him up - and as amusing it would certainly be to just let him rot away in jail - now she can't let her fans down!

Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

No, I think he will be too scared to take his revenge.

I believe that Lucius' 'revenge' would be to commit his considerable talents to the other side, when he'd think the time was right only, of course.

I'd be inconsolable if he did not return! She's build him up - and as amusing it would certainly be to just let him rot away in jail - now she can't let her fans down!
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but she makes her stories on what she want's, not what fans want.

As for the diary issue, i don't think that he knew that the Diary would release the Basalisk, only that it would open a chamber, and that it would purify the school.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but she makes her stories on what she want's, not what fans want.

oh, are you trying to suggest that she won't be listening to my personal wishes...? Why, who'd have figured? That'd make already two to let me down - JKR and Santa

I agree that is probably what drew Lucius to the DEs. He was a pure-blood fanatic. Which is why (going back to the earlier discussions) I find it curious that he considered Snape a friend, as Snape was helf-blood.

I find that strange too. There might be a possibility that Lucius didn't know that Snape was a half-blood and just assumed he was pure-blood because he was put in Slytherin.

I find that strange too. There might be a possibility that Lucius didn't know that Snape was a half-blood and just assumed he was pure-blood because he was put in Slytherin.I don't know about anybody else, but I've always had doubts about Lucius's lineage. If we take into consideration the Black family tree, all of the pure bloods are related somewhere down the line, (Weasely's, Potters, included) yet the name Malfoy is only on the tapestry once, added when Narccissa married him. Couldn't it be possible that the reason Lucius originally 'befriended' Snape was because their blood history was the same??? This could partially explain why Lucius is so zealous in his beliefs, because he, like LV himself, doesn't want to acknowledge his muggle half.

I don't think Harry would trace the entire tree, and if there was some forteenth century connection between the Malfoys and the Blacks, I don't believe that Harry would have bothered.

I don't think Harry would trace the entire tree, and if there was some forteenth century connection between the Malfoys and the Blacks, I don't believe that Harry would have bothered.I agree that Harry isn't going to research that families lineage back, as it would serve no real purpose to the story line. My point was simply that throughout the years (700 wasn't it?) and the number of generations we are shown (and are told by Sirius) somewhere down the line, all pureblood families are related. If Lucius is a pureblood you would think that the name Malfoy would have shown up somewhere else on the tree, (the way the Weaseleys were shown) before the marriage to Narccissa.

my counter argument is that the old families are well known by all the others. Now if Lucius wasn't just a pureblood supremacist, but one with not quite an immaculate background himself, people would make scornful remarks. Which they don't.

my counter argument is that the old families are well known by all the others. Now if Lucius wasn't just a pureblood supremacist, but one with not quite an immaculate background himself, people would make scornful remarks. Which they don't.Well, sorry to say but that arguement doesn't convince me :D. Taking into consideration the pure blood credo of SS himself, it implies that all who are sorted into his house would infact be pureblood, as it was a prerequisite during his time. Being sorted into that house now, pretty much guarantees the assumption umongst the rest of the students, that all in that house are pure blood.
We have been told that there are very few true purebloods left. This says to me that if one is sorted into Slytherin, they were sorted there for reasons other than JUST their blood status. I tend to think that Lucius fits into this category.
We know that there are at least two people who were in Slytherin who aren't pure blood. Snape and Voldemort. Who's to say that there isn't more? Tom Riddle was able to keep his status secret, so IF Lucius is half blood as well, he may have been able to hide it too.
As for Snape, from what we have seen of his school days, his being a loner, and ostrisized by apparently everyone (his house included, by their lack of intervention in SWM) says to me that it was known that Snape was a halfblood. He didn't fit in with the rest of his house because of his blood status, and he didn't fit in with the rest of the school because he was in Slytherin

Well, if Lucius isn't pureblood, he's probably still not half-blood, at least in the way that Voldemort and Snape are. Probably even not like Harry. If one of his ancestors was a Muggle, they would have been his great-grandparents or further back. (IMO)

ETA: Gah! The questions!

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family?

I'd say himself.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary?

Probably very little. I doubt he knew it was a Horcrux.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?

In his opinion, yes. I don't think he's a good father, but there have been worse.

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

Eh, can I answer those later?

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP?

"Everything in his power" would have included zapping all of the kids aside from Harry and forcing him to grab the prophecy. But Lucius likes to brag, so that wasn't going to happen.

6. Will he escape from Azkaban? What kind of role will he play in the last book?

Part of me wants to say that Lucius will spend DH rotting in prison, but then I want to say that he'll escape to go through with his own agenda (whatever it may be).

7. Voldemort used Draco to punish Lucius. Will Lucius try to take revenge for his son?

Only if he thinks he'll succeed. I'd say Lucius is a bit too smart to try to run up behind Voldemort and kill him himself.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've always had doubts about Lucius's lineage. If we take into consideration the Black family tree, all of the pure bloods are related somewhere down the line, (Weasely's, Potters, included) yet the name Malfoy is only on the tapestry once, added when Narccissa married him. Couldn't it be possible that the reason Lucius originally 'befriended' Snape was because their blood history was the same??? This could partially explain why Lucius is so zealous in his beliefs, because he, like LV himself, doesn't want to acknowledge his muggle half.

I'm not sure if Lucius would go around acting like a pure-blood if he wasn't able to prove it completely. He knew it would damage his reputation if it was discovered that he is really a half-blood. I don't think that he would take that chance.

I'm not sure if Lucius would go around acting like a pure-blood if he wasn't able to prove it completely. He knew it would damage his reputation if it was discovered that he is really a half-blood. I don't think that he would take that chance.IF it was found out, I agree. I just wonder if this isn't a case of "I thinks thou dost protest too much" His manic pure blood mania, could be covering up his true blood statis. Who would believe that anyone so vehement about being pureblood really wasn't. Nobody doubted LV's lineage, maybe it's the same for Lucius?