Bellatrix Lestrange: Character Analysis

Uh...she has no life outside Dark Arts, who knows she might as well create her own world of Dark Arts.....but no, I don't think she is capable enough of doing that, else she could have grabbed the golden opportunity that was presented to her when Voldemort vanished. She could have stepped up and claimed the throne, but no she doesn't do that, leaving the throne for the king, she could easily have said that she was just acting as the caretaker of the throne, but she had no such intention thereby proving that she is incompetent and incapable and can never rise to the post of Voldemort, she will forever be a faithful servant, the rider from the north.

Good point mysterious. When she was given a clear chance to sieze the lead (power vacuum created by the loss of LV), she instead took actions to get her beloved leader back. She could have attempted a power struggle and attempted to claim the throne herself...and she did not. I think the other DE's knew her fanaticism, her love of cruciatus, and that LV did indeed favor her as much as any DE. The one DE that could have stood in her way was also her brother-in-law. What I am not saying here is that LV did indeed have her as his favorite - DD is quite clear about this issue - but that Bella felt that she was #2, and that the other DE's also knew this.
In all honesty I think that Bella could have defeated pretty much any of the other DE's in battle. Snape and perhaps Malfoy are the only ones that leap to mind as having similar skill sets. And, knowing this, she could have probably tried to take the throne herself. But she didn't - she tried to find LV instead.

Actually, I really see her feeling incredibly wronged by Voldy. She God-worshipped him for most of her life and devoted herself entirely to his cause. Now, after one mistake he turns on her, snubs her. The fact that she voiced her mistrust in his judgement is a very big thing. I liken it to any religious fanatic saying aloud that they believe their particular diety is wrong. Whoa! That doesn't happen everyday and it is usually the result of a major shift in the fanatic's beliefs. Does she still believe in blood purity supremacy? Of course, she always has and she always will. Will she still offer her unwavering devotion to Voldy? I'm not convinced of that. I'm very inclined to think that she will take matters into her own hands and ultimately become a danger (either purposely or inadvertantly) to anyone she comes across, including herself.

best,
la femme

I agree that during Spinner's End her faith was wavering... But in book 7 Snape will have proven he is a DE all along (in her eyes).

Good point mysterious. When she was given a clear chance to sieze the lead (power vacuum created by the loss of LV), she instead took actions to get her beloved leader back. She could have attempted a power struggle and attempted to claim the throne herself...and she did not. I think the other DE's knew her fanaticism, her love of cruciatus, and that LV did indeed favor her as much as any DE. The one DE that could have stood in her way was also her brother-in-law. What I am not saying here is that LV did indeed have her as his favorite - DD is quite clear about this issue - but that Bella felt that she was #2, and that the other DE's also knew this.
In all honesty I think that Bella could have defeated pretty much any of the other DE's in battle. Snape and perhaps Malfoy are the only ones that leap to mind as having similar skill sets. And, knowing this, she could have probably tried to take the throne herself. But she didn't - she tried to find LV instead.

Actually she didn't have to fight many I guess, she was the self styled second in command and I guess everyone would have happily followed her, if she made it appear as if she was just filling in like a steward and that her main intention was to organize themselves and try to find Voldemort in a systematic way, then it would have been better. But she didn't clearly showing that she lacks leadership abilities, moreover this also shows that she isn't very fascinated by team work, and also the fact that why she wasn't given the charge of the mission to retrieve the Prophecy.

We don't know if Bellatrix was in charge of the attack on the Longbottom's, the brothers Lestrange were (going by Slughorn's memory) raised by a father who was a DE.

We don't know if Bellatrix was in charge of the attack on the Longbottom's

Well looked like it, seeing that it was she was the one who retorted back in the Courtroom and said everything for everyone else, she was undoubtedly the leader of the small foolish group.

Actually she didn't have to fight many I guess, she was the self styled second in command and I guess everyone would have happily followed her, if she made it appear as if she was just filling in like a steward and that her main intention was to organize themselves and try to find Voldemort in a systematic way, then it would have been better. But she didn't clearly showing that she lacks leadership abilities, moreover this also shows that she isn't very fascinated by team work, and also the fact that why she wasn't given the charge of the mission to retrieve the Prophecy.

My personal thought about why Lucius was in charge was that he was the one who knew how to get into the MoM. Since he was probably the one to get several wanted DE's into the MoM, he was given the task of being in charge. Also, LV knew that of all the DE's he could pick, Lucius was the only one that knew Harry. So he figured that Lucius was going to be the one to be able to convince Harry to give up the prophesy.

Back to Bella: good way of figuring out how Bella would have tried to take over the DE's - she'd be a caretaker first, then she'd consolidate her power.

She does seem to prefer being the second-in-command. Less responsibility and more fun for her.

Bellatrix not only looked for Voldemort instead of trying to seize power, but she did so in such a blatant fashion that she was sure to go to Azkaban. And later when she could have attempted to get out of punishment, she defiantly went off to prison. This is not the behavior of a leader.

Bellatrix not only looked for Voldemort instead of trying to seize power, but she did so in such a blatant fashion that she was sure to go to Azkaban. And later when she could have attempted to get out of punishment, she defiantly went off to prison. This is not the behavior of a leader.

Exactly, I am not only suggesting that she could have seized power but then she could have acted as the second in command is supposed to at times of war, they are supposed to re-organize the troops and then set an organized assault, rather than "everyman to himself" tactics. Also this shows one more thing, the lack of team spirit in the Death Eaters. I don't see that problem with the order. :clap:

Yeah but the DE's need Lord Voldemort more then the Order need Dumbledore. The DE's were created with the purpose of serving Lord Voldemort's cause, The Order was created to stop that. With Lord Voldemort out of the picture the DE's no longer serve a purpose.

Yeah the Death Eaters are pretty dependant on Voldemort. People like Bella live and breath the life of being one.

Do you think there was some sort of symbolism or significance to Bella killing the fox at the beginning of HBP? It seems like a pretty random thing for her to do, we already know she's a bit crazy. Do you think the only purpose of that bit was to show that she was trigger happy?
It's a bit out there but do you think she may have some sort of confrontation with Fawkes in DH?

I think that it was just there to show how ruthless Bella is, and that she isn't afraid to take another person's life.

Yeah, it also shows her affinity for the Unforgiveables, at the MoM said that you need to really mean it for that kind of curse to work. She can do it without even looking at the person.

Yeah but the DE's need Lord Voldemort more then the Order need Dumbledore. The DE's were created with the purpose of serving Lord Voldemort's cause, The Order was created to stop that. With Lord Voldemort out of the picture the DE's no longer serve a purpose.

It is not that the Order didn't need Dumbledore, it is because the Order has team spirit and works with unity, that has enabled them to work even without Dumbledore which is not possible in the case of Death Eaters. ;)

Do you think there was some sort of symbolism or significance to Bella killing the fox at the beginning of HBP?

Yes there is, this shows that she is a alert woman and doesn't leave any holes in her Job. ;)

I think it shows Bellatrix's attitude to killing in general. It's instinctive and doesn't cause her any guilt. Remember that she thought it was a person she was killing, not an animal.

It is not that the Order didn't need Dumbledore, it is because the Order has team spirit and works with unity, that has enabled them to work even without Dumbledore which is not possible in the case of Death Eaters. ;)

I disagree, the dEath Eaters aren't more stupid or incapable because they are the bad guys, contrary to popular belief, they just don't know Voldemort's plans, they don't have the foggiest.

I disagree, the dEath Eaters aren't more stupid or incapable because they are the bad guys, contrary to popular belief, they just don't know Voldemort's plans, they don't have the foggiest.

Well neither did the Order know what Dumbledore was planning. :no: They were always told only enough, they had no idea of other things, for instance they didn't know anything about the Horcruxes. Neither did they know, why Dumbledore trusted Severus Snape, and neither did the Death Eaters know for Voldemort. It is just an excuse and not a popular belief. I have always had the opinion that when it comes to team spirit and caring for each other the Order have always outrun the Death Eaters.

And I agree Rell that it also shows Bella's killer instincts. :eeep:

But the Order did, they Horcrux business isn't about the Order. For the order DD didn't have much planned. The DE's need to strike first before the Order can do anything.

I think it shows Bellatrix's attitude to killing in general. It's instinctive and doesn't cause her any guilt. Remember that she thought it was a person she was killing, not an animal.
That's true. I suppose it just struck me that it was a fox--sly, cunning--and they were going to see Snape and the only other mention of a 'fox' is 'Fawkes'. (:blush: wild theory but I've seen worse)
Part of it is that I've never seen a fox except for in a zoo, do they roam about a lot in England so that it would be easy to stumble upon one?

I agree that the Order is more tight knit and that has/will help them in the fight. Isn't there some quotation about an army of lovers being unbeatable or some such thing? The DE's only care about themselves. They may buy Voldemort's ideals, but I don't think many of them would be willing to die for their cause if given the choice. (maybe Bella, but yea...she's insane) Live to fight another day and all that jazz.

I think that Bella killing the fox showed her instincts and her reflexes. The impression I have of Bella from both the ministry and the Spinners' End scene is that she has incredible reflexes. She reacts instantaneously to percieved threats and is decisive in her actions.

As a witch who knows that she'll be thrown into Azkaban instantly if captured, or will be killed if necessary, Bella has little incentive not to use the Unforgivables. She certainly enjoys using them to a degree matched, perhaps, only by LV; but she also must know that since they can't throw her into prison for a longer term than she already has awaiting her, she can use unforgivables without risking any extra punishment. For lack of a better term I'll call this evil pragmatism.

You know, we always talk about Bellatrix's impulsivity, but I don't remember ever connecting that trait to her instinctive fighting style - good catch there, chparadise. It definitely helps Bellatrix when fighting - and it's why she's such an asset to the Death Eaters as a group.

Oh, she is excellent at dueling, she has proved that by killing Sirius. There is no doubt about that. :no: Its just that had she not been as impulsive as she is, she would make a wonderful Dark Lord. That reminds me that it has been seen a general trait of the Black Family, they are all impulsive in general. :)

Thats what waks a good witch or wizard a great one. Its one thing to have alot of magical ability, but to have the tools to use it for your benefit is another.

i.e. If you were the one wizard who's spells had the most force behind them, what is the point if you were fighting someone, but were too slow to react or oblivious to your surroundings.

Bella has a mixture of power, instinct, and intelligence.

she migh be evil, but i doubt anyone here would deny she is very skilled in her chosen path of magic.

This is slightly off-topic to the killing of the fox, but related to Bella's dueling skills. I think it needs to be remembered that she's a legilimens (since she's the one who taught Draco occlumency). That also gives her quite an edge in duelling.

That's true. Being a legilimens certainly gives her the edge in fighting.

Oh, she is excellent at dueling, she has proved that by killing Sirius. There is no doubt about that. :no: Its just that had she not been as impulsive as she is, she would make a wonderful Dark Lord. That reminds me that it has been seen a general trait of the Black Family, they are all impulsive in general. :)
That's a good point! We most definitely see that in Sirius over and over, as well as in Andromeda (running off to marry a muggle), in Narcissa (going to Snape), etc. That could definitely effect what we see of both Draco and Regulus in 7 I think. But I don't know that she would make a great Dark Lord, I think Voldemort is the opposite of impulsive, he is calculating--he bides his time and knows his enemy!

This is slightly off-topic to the killing of the fox, but related to Bella's dueling skills. I think it needs to be remembered that she's a legilimens (since she's the one who taught Draco occlumency). That also gives her quite an edge in duelling.
That's true, based on what Snape said, but it is strange to me--from their lessons I was under the impression that legilimency required time and focus in addition to a spell (though it may be done non-verbally). Could you really do this in the heat of battle? I guess you can b/c Snape says "keep your mind closed" but then why did it require so much set up when being taught?

I don't like Bellatrix but she's a necessary character. It shows how Voldemort can split family members against eachother and make them ruthless and cold. I hope Bellatrix wasn't always as evil.

The scene in HBP does show that she is loyal, though. It's amazing to me how she can kill one family member and then try to save another. I don't care how much you hate someone, family is family. She's a good servant to Voldemort, too bad he isn't as loyal to her as she is to him. She'll be sacraficed in the war, and not one tear or sad thought will happened from the one she serves with such ferocity.

Oh, she is excellent at dueling, she has proved that by killing Sirius. There is no doubt about that. :no: Its just that had she not been as impulsive as she is, she would make a wonderful Dark Lord. That reminds me that it has been seen a general trait of the Black Family, they are all impulsive in general. :)

I'm really sorry to be nagging, and I'm sure a dozen people have said the same elsewhere - but Bellatrix can't be made responsible for Sirius' death, at least not in the 'MURDER' context - she used some ordinary spell, no Unforgivable - and he fell through that mysterious veil. Had Harry or Ron done the same and a Death Eater was killed accidentally, no one would claim that it was a murder. Bad luck, possibly illegal in some minor way, but not 'murder'.

I'm really sorry to be nagging, and I'm sure a dozen people have said the same elsewhere - but Bellatrix can't be made responsible for Sirius' death, at least not in the 'MURDER' context - she used some ordinary spell, no Unforgivable - and he fell through that mysterious veil. Had Harry or Ron done the same and a Death Eater was killed accidentally, no one would claim that it was a murder. Bad luck, possibly illegal in some minor way, but not 'murder'.

Tue , but she is still evil. She was involved in torturing the Longbottoms and probably has murdered before.

"But what use have you been?" sneered Bellatrix. "What useful information have we had from you?'
"My information has been conveyed directly to the Dark Lord," said Snape. "If he chooses not to share it with you -"
"He shares everything with me!" said Bellatrix, firing up at once.
"He calls me his most loyal, his most faithful-"
"Does he?" said Snape, his voice delicately inflected to suggest his disbelief. "Does he still, after the fiasco at the Ministry?"
"That was not my fault!" said Bellatrix, flushing. "The Dark Lord has, in the past, entrusted me with his most precious - if Lucius hadn't -"
"Don't you dare - don't you dare blame my husband!" said Narcissa, in a low and deadly voice, looking up at her sister.This was being discussed a bit on another thread, but looking at it purely from Bella's perspective, what do you think Bella is referring to? Voldy has entrusted her "with his most precious"?? And by "in the past" does she mean before the battle at the MoM or before his first defeat?

My own personal reading of this takes into account statements by both Draco and Barty Jr. Draco accuses Snape of wanting the glory for himself, so he can have "most favored DE status". Barty Jr boasts to Harry that, by killing him, he'll assume the mantle of "most favored DE". I think that LV allows his followers to be deluded into thinking that they're the "most favored" - it's a nice way of both keeping them on their toes and keeping them loyal.

As to what the secret is...I know that one of the prevailing theories is that he entrusted her with a horcrux, or something of that sorts...I just can't bring myself to fully believe that. I know there's anecdotal evidence that RAB had been similarly entrusted with a horcrux - it'd be one of the ways of explaining how he knew about it - but I think there's an alternative explanation.

Just don't ask me what the alternative explanation is - I'm still working on that :rolleyes: .

I think it's fair to say that Bella, though she didn't directly kill Sirius, both caused his death and didn't shed any tears over doing so. I guess the muggle equivalent would be fighting on top of something and shoving someone, hard. If they fall over the edge to their death, they weren't killed directly by the person - but they caused his death. Sorry if this analogy stretches it a bit :).

I think it's fair to say that Bella, though she didn't directly kill Sirius, both caused his death and didn't shed any tears over doing so. I guess the muggle equivalent would be fighting on top of something and shoving someone, hard. If they fall over the edge to their death, they weren't killed directly by the person - but they caused his death. Sorry if this analogy stretches it a bit :).
I'd say it does...:p But the duel with Sirius doesn't show Bella at her foulest. In my opinion she is at her worst when she tortures Neville. The Longbottom torturing was a desperate attempt for information, in my opinion. But when Bella tortured Neville, it was pure malice.

Concerning the Spinner's End quote, I think "in the past" refers to before Voldemort's downfall. And even though the "precious" thing could be a horcrux, I don't think it is, but it may very well be something connected to a horcrux. Now, however, Bella is somewhat less valuable to the Dark Lord than she was before Godric's Hollow.

I'm really sorry to be nagging, and I'm sure a dozen people have said the same elsewhere - but Bellatrix can't be made responsible for Sirius' death, at least not in the 'MURDER' context - she used some ordinary spell, no Unforgivable - and he fell through that mysterious veil. Had Harry or Ron done the same and a Death Eater was killed accidentally, no one would claim that it was a murder. Bad luck, possibly illegal in some minor way, but not 'murder'.


I am sorry, but you won't call that an accident. An accident is unintentional harm. You won't call it an accident if you tripped someone in front of a racing car. That will be murder. Murder doesn't mean to kill with ones own hands, actions that lead to it, itself count as murder and it was Bellatrix's spell that caused Sirius to fall through the veil. Thus it was a murder and not an accident. Moreover Bellatrix intended to Kill Sirius anyways, so I don't see a point qualifying it as an accident. :hmm:

I think it's fair to say that Bella, though she didn't directly kill Sirius, both caused his death and didn't shed any tears over doing so. I guess the muggle equivalent would be fighting on top of something and shoving someone, hard. If they fall over the edge to their death, they weren't killed directly by the person - but they caused his death. Sorry if this analogy stretches it a bit :).

I am sorry, but you won't call that an accident. An accident is unintentional harm. You won't call it an accident if you tripped someone in front of a racing car. That will be murder. Murder doesn't mean to kill with ones own hands, actions that lead to it, itself count as murder and it was Bellatrix's spell that caused Sirius to fall through the veil. Thus it was a murder and not an accident. Moreover Bellatrix intended to Kill Sirius anyways, so I don't see a point qualifying it as an accident. :hmm:
There is the theory that Bella did kill Sirius with Avada Kedavra before he fell through the vail. I think there was a flash of green light but I apologize because I do not have my books with me to quote that. Anyway, some people say he was dead before going through the vail while others say it was going through the vail that killed him. Either way, Bella is responsible and does not care for Sirius in the least. Family bonds only have meaning to her if the family member sees her way of thinking.

There is the theory that Bella did kill Sirius with Avada Kedavra before he fell through the vail.

Nah, she had just stupefied Sirius, for she had hit him with a spell that was red in color....

Only one pair was still battling, apparently unaware of the new arrival. Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her.

'Come on, you can do better than that!' he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room.

The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest.

The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.

Crucio's are red, and so are a bunch of other spells.

Nah, she had just stupefied Sirius, for she had hit him with a spell that was red in color....

Only one pair was still battling, apparently unaware of the new arrival. Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her.

'Come on, you can do better than that!' he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room.

The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest.

The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.
The second jet of light is not given a color, so it may have been green. Either way, it is just a guess since we don't really know for sure.

I'm really sorry to be nagging, and I'm sure a dozen people have said the same elsewhere - but Bellatrix can't be made responsible for Sirius' death, at least not in the 'MURDER' context - she used some ordinary spell, no Unforgivable - and he fell through that mysterious veil. Had Harry or Ron done the same and a Death Eater was killed accidentally, no one would claim that it was a murder. Bad luck, possibly illegal in some minor way, but not 'murder'.
And the first time we see her after that, in Chapter 2 of HBP, she is mercilessly killing a "fox" (member of the canine family) that she believes is actually a human Animagus Auror who has come to hunt her down. If the fox had been an Animagus, that would have been murder, wouldn't it?

Don't you find that scene eerily similar to the death of the "Animagus Black," as she calls Sirius?

Also, the older people there knew what the Veil was for - Lupin knows, and I'm assuming Bella also knew. Sirius was standing in front of it, and she zapped him, and then Harry hears a "triumphant scream." Some people think Bella screams because she realized she had killed her cousin, but earlier in Chapter 34, Bella's voice was described as:

Harsh
Horrible
Raucous Scream of Laughter (As in Shriek)
Laughed Loudest of All
Shrieked "Accio Proph--"

Ugh - reading that chapter again gives me the creeps. Bella orders the other DEs to "...take the smallest one (Ginny) . . . Let him watch while we torture the little girl. I'll do it."

Ah - volunteering to torture small children. What a gal that Bella is! :scared:

Yeah - from reading that again, I think Bella is perfectly capable of murder, torture, and she's not too sorry about any of it.

Yeah - from reading that again, I think Bella is perfectly capable of murder, torture, and she's not too sorry about any of it.
Agreed! Do people like that even have a conscience? How can they possibly? Torturing small children and killing people would indicate to me that a person doesn't have one at all, but maybe I'm missing something. She must care about something, right? Well, she cares about impressing Voldemort (the epitome of evil) and she may have some concern for her sister and husband. I just don't understand where someone like that draws the line. How can you be concerned for one person (like Narcissa) and then turn around and torture children? I guess what I am saying is that I just don't "get" Bellatrix. That is why I am subscribed to this thread: to see what others say and see if I can understand her any better. So far I am still lost, but maybe it is just me.

Agreed! Do people like that even have a conscience? How can they possibly? Torturing small children and killing people would indicate to me that a person doesn't have one at all, but maybe I'm missing something. She must care about something, right? Well, she cares about impressing Voldemort (the epitome of evil) and she may have some concern for her sister and husband. I just don't understand where someone like that draws the line. How can you be concerned for one person (like Narcissa) and then turn around and torture children? I guess what I am saying is that I just don't "get" Bellatrix. That is why I am subscribed to this thread: to see what others say and see if I can understand her any better. So far I am still lost, but maybe it is just me.

I think "normal" people simply cannot understand a woman like Bella. Her mind works differently than those of us who have decency and legitamate caring. She did say in Spinners' End that she'd gladly give her son(s) in service of the Dark Lord, if she had any.
I think she's much like a very devoted cult follower. LV is the leader of the cult, and he's the only one whose opinion Bella truly cares about.
Any psychologists on this thread? I can hazard a guess that Bella fits the bill of some condition fairly well ; I just don't know enough psychology to know which one that'd be. I just know that her mind is wired differently than 99.99+ % of the people out there, so it's hard for us 99.99% to really understand how her mind works.

The second jet of light is not given a color, so it may have been green. Either way, it is just a guess since we don't really know for sure.

That is what makes me think that it is red. ;)

Well, she cares about impressing Voldemort

She has her own personal reasons for that. She is an out right self centered person. Though she has some concern for her sister Narcissa. We don't see her very close to her husband. She isn't a very familiar kind of person, she is a complete Slytherin. ;)

I think "normal" people simply cannot understand a woman like Bella. Her mind works differently than those of us who have decency and legitamate caring. She did say in Spinners' End that she'd gladly give her son(s) in service of the Dark Lord, if she had any.
I think she's much like a very devoted cult follower. LV is the leader of the cult, and he's the only one whose opinion Bella truly cares about.
Any psychologists on this thread? I can hazard a guess that Bella fits the bill of some condition fairly well ; I just don't know enough psychology to know which one that'd be. I just know that her mind is wired differently than 99.99+ % of the people out there, so it's hard for us 99.99% to really understand how her mind works.
I totally agree that it's probably for the best that no one here can truly understand how Bella's mind works, since she's totally off-balance.

I would say there are only slight differences between herself and Voldemort, since she doesn't mind attacking children and torturing people into insanity.

The main difference is that Bella grew up in a family situation, while Voldemort grew up without parents in an orphanage.

In this case, it's hard to see that the House of Black did Bella much good, however she is still involved with Narcissa and Draco, though her husband and his brother seem to be out of sight, and out of mind, while they are in jail. I think it's significant that Narcissa defends Lucius to Bella, while Bella says not a word about her husband and brother-in-law. Maybe they are worse than she is, so she's glad they are gone, or perhaps she is just totally disloyal, unlike Narcissa?

I don't think Narcissa truly trusts Bella, since she didn't want Bellatrix to follow her to Snape's house.

Here are a few quotes about the characters and their personality "disorders" that JKR has made in the past, and she calls Voldemort a "psychopath." She seems to rule out redemption for Voldemort, though says he is a rare case. However, I think we can also make a case that Bella is as close to a female counterpart of the Dark Lord as you can find in the books:

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/0900-ew-jensen.htm

I'm writing about shades of evil. You have Voldemort, a raging psychopath, devoid of the normal human responses to other people's suffering, and there ARE people like that in the world. But then you have Wormtail, who out of cowardice will stand in the shadow of the strongest person.

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2006/0801-radiocityreading1.html

J.K. Rowling: Well, I believe that almost anyone can redeem themselves... However, in some cases, as we know from reality -- if a psychologist were ever able to get Voldemort in a room, pin him down and take his wand away, I think he would be classified as a psychopath (crowd laughs). So there are people, for whom, whatever you're going to callit -- personality disorder or an illness -- for whom redemption is not possible. They're rare. So I'd say my characters, in the main, yes, there's the possibility for redemption for all of them.

In saying "illness," she may be referring to people like Barty Jr. or Bellatrix, who seem to be insane from their time in Azkaban, or possibly were insane before they entered there, since they were certainly fanatics.

I totally agree that it's probably for the best that no one here can truly understand how Bella's mind works, since she's totally off-balance.
I'm slightly afraid of how this reply will be taken, so let me first of all assure you: I don't truly understand how Bella's mind works. But I wouldn't say that she is crazy and that's it. There's more depth in her than that.

I'm not among those here on the forums who read the HP books over and over again all the time, so I'll just include what I happen to know from memory, and that's far from all the details on Bella there is. So feel free to fill in the blanks or contradict me. But I'd just like to point out a few things:
- the Longbottoms trial in the pensieve. Bella seems to be well beyond reason, and brags about being faithful to the Dark Lord. The Longbottoms were tortured into insanity, but we are told that the Lestranges (and Crouch Jr., I expect) were sent to them. We don't know by whom. But it seems to me that torturing the Longbottoms was a desperate last attempt to find out something about LV and what happened to him. Bellatrix had probably been dependent on him as her master for years, and she is lost without him. Desperate for information, she tortured the Longbottoms.
- years and years in Azkaban... If she was irrational before this point, there's no reason to believe that these years improved her sanity. But LV had said that he'd return (we don't know this for sure, but we can assume it based on what he says in the graveyard in GoF), and Bella believes him. She knows she'll be rewarded for her faithfulness when she gets out of prison.
- the MoM catastrophe. Lucius is in charge, not Bella. Lucius has to restrain her, as far as I can remember. She tortures Neville, like she tortured his parents, and this is the worst we ever see of her, in my opoinion. She causes Sirius' death, and flees at the end of the battle. LV takes her away with him, but we don't know more than that. I doubt she was rewarded this time.
- Spinner's End. Bella is wavering. I expect that LV hasn't rewarded her for her faithfulness the way she expected. Perhaps Azkaban has made her more reckless, and as such a more dangerous servant to LV. He needs people who can keep their heads cold (like Lucius). Bella shows concern for Narcissa. We don't know exactly why, but I think Narcissa is the one person Bella truly cares about - except Voldemort. But her opinion of Voldemort may be changing. I don't think she'll ever join the good side, but she may show more doubt concerning LV's choices and actions hereafter. In the heat of the battle she'll always be on Voldemort's side, but if he keeps ignoring her, her fury just might be ignited against him. If that happens, I don't think the reason is that Bella thinks Voldemort is evil in any way. So is she. But she may feel that she gets less than she deserves.

I don't think Bella will survive DH. But I don't think Neville will kill her. Possibly LV will, if she becomes a risk to him. She is self-centered all right, but she hero-worships Voldemort, and her whole life is centered around him as well as herself. If she feels that she no longer has any value for the Dark Lord, what's left of her life?

It's odd how much Bellatrix in the scene with Snape and Narcissa in HBP sounds like Winky talking about Crouch:

"Master is -- hic -- trusting Winky with -- hic --the most important --hic the most secret --" GOF, Scholastic, 537.

Bella also sounds like Crouch Jr at times - they both think that they're the Dark Lord's favorite. Must be part of the common delusion that all the DE's are under.

Probably. All the Death Eaters must think that they are favored to at least some degree. But maybe not on the same level as Bella or Crouch Jr.

Bella also sounds like Crouch Jr at times - they both think that they're the Dark Lord's favorite. Must be part of the common delusion that all the DE's are under.

Not all, but some. ;)

I think Bellatrix is in love with Voldemort! heehee...that is why she was so upset when she said they weren't really on speaking terms in HBP.

My worst impression of her was when she mocked harry in OotP. I was so mad, because it really seemed like she totally didn't take any of them seriously. And then torturing neville--wow. I do think she loves her sister though, because her sister is the only person who i think she has any kind of bond with. I think this makes her more human than Voldemort, who has no one.

I think Bellatrix is in love with Voldemort! heehee...that is why she was so upset when she said they weren't really on speaking terms in HBP.
In my opinion, it's not love, it's an obsession. Bella worships Voldemort, he truly is her lord and master. It's scary what people can do to impress and/or please someone they've got this kind of relationship to.

In my opinion, it's not love, it's an obsession. Bella worships Voldemort, he truly is her lord and master. It's scary what people can do to impress and/or please someone they've got this kind of relationship to.

you're right, it's a lust/obsession/infatuation type thing. it is very scary what some people resort to. basically, bella has nothing else to live for other than voldemort.

In my opinion, it's not love, it's an obsession. Bella worships Voldemort, he truly is her lord and master. It's scary what people can do to impress and/or please someone they've got this kind of relationship to.
I agree. I think Bella is deeply obsessed with Voldemort and his plans. I think she is attracted to his power, but not in a romantic/love kind of way. It's more a dedication to his ideals, IMO.

Bella is obsessed with following LV, yes. That's the way LV wants it - he wants his followers to be obsessed with serving him, while he doesn't really care too much whether they live or die, as long as he has a fresh supply of DE's.

Careful with the bella in love with Voldy angle - the old thread by that name got closed down a couple months ago.

I used to think that she was truly obsessed with Voldemort personally, but after HBP, my perception of her has changed a bit. I think that she's a true Black and that her only real allegiance is to herself. She's in it because she's obsessed with blood purity more than anything else.

Careful with the bella in love with Voldy angle - the old thread by that name got closed down a couple months ago.

Just as a mod clarification, that thread was shut down for repeated sexual innuendos. You can pursue this angle but please remember that she is married and also to keep things family friendly.

I used to think that she was truly obsessed with Voldemort personally, but after HBP, my perception of her has changed a bit. I think that she's a true Black and that her only real allegiance is to herself. She's in it because she's obsessed with blood purity more than anything else.
Actually, I think you were right to begin with. I think Bella is the one who is changing, it's not just our impression of her that's changed. I know I'm repeating myself here, but I believe that what we see in Spinner's End is that Bella's view of Voldemort has changed slightly. She's her same old vicious, blood purist self, but the master she has been obsessed with for so long does not value her to the extent she feel she deserves. The fact that she shows some doubts regarding his trust (or whatever it is) in Snape is, IMO, a symptom of her doubt about Voldemort in general. He isn't exactly what she's always thought he was.

But as these are only my personal thoughts regarding Bella, I think I'll stop before I get lost in possible DH scenarios involving her...

I agree with crookshanksfan to an extent. I do think Bella has changed a little since OotP, but I don't think her loyalty to Voldemort has faltered. In Spinner's End we do see her doubts about Snape, and ultimately Voldemort's judgement, but when Snape mentions that to her - she stops immediately. This suggests to me that she is just as terrified and obsessed as she ever was. I think the change in her may actually be that she is desperate to get back in Voldemort's good books again after what happened at the Ministry in OotP - which was why she was so desperate to stop Narcissa ruining his plans by asking Snape for help. I doubt that another of her relatives letting Voldemort down would please him too much. I still believe that for Bellatrix - her allegiance to Voldemort is her absolute number one priority.

I agree with crookshanksfan to an extent. I do think Bella has changed a little since OotP, but I don't think her loyalty to Voldemort has faltered. In Spinner's End we do see her doubts about Snape, and ultimately Voldemort's judgement, but when Snape mentions that to her - she stops immediately. This suggests to me that she is just as terrified and obsessed as she ever was. I think the change in her may actually be that she is desperate to get back in Voldemort's good books again after what happened at the Ministry in OotP - which was why she was so desperate to stop Narcissa ruining his plans by asking Snape for help. I doubt that another of her relatives letting Voldemort down would please him too much. I still believe that for Bellatrix - her allegiance to Voldemort is her absolute number one priority.

I completely agree! After that DoM fiasco, I bet Bellatrix has been trying very hard to impress Voldemort so as to escape severe punishment. But I do not believe her loyalty towards Voldemort is fake and out of fear 100%. In my opinion, the fear is definitely there, but mostly I think Bella admires Voldemort and genuinely thinks of him as her leader.

But I do not believe her loyalty towards Voldemort is fake and out of fear 100%. In my opinion, the fear is definitely there, but mostly I think Bella admires Voldemort and genuinely thinks of him as her leader.
Ooh, sorry - I didn't mean that her loyalty to Voldemort is due to fear and certainly not fake. I was just pointing out that, while she does admire him - that fear is definitely present in her and it shows through at times. ;)

She sounded pretty fearful when she saw LV in the MoM, when she was at his knees explaining how she was fighting sirius and it wasn't her fault about the prophesy...

Ooh, sorry - I didn't mean that her loyalty to Voldemort is due to fear and certainly not fake. I was just pointing out that, while she does admire him - that fear is definitely present in her and it shows through at times. ;)
It's okay, I wasn't disagreeing with you. :)

I agree that Bellatrix fears Voldemort - he is so powerful after all - but yes, I do not believe she is his follower merely because she needs a sense of protection (Peter, for example), but because she truly admires his power. :agree:

She sounded pretty fearful when she saw LV in the MoM, when she was at his knees explaining how she was fighting sirius and it wasn't her fault about the prophesy...

I think that was because she did not want to get in Voldemort's bad books. I definitely think Bellatrix fears him - like every other DE - and that she would do anything to be his favorite. :shrug:

I agree with crookshanksfan to an extent. I do think Bella has changed a little since OotP, but I don't think her loyalty to Voldemort has faltered. In Spinner's End we do see her doubts about Snape, and ultimately Voldemort's judgement, but when Snape mentions that to her - she stops immediately. This suggests to me that she is just as terrified and obsessed as she ever was. I think the change in her may actually be that she is desperate to get back in Voldemort's good books again after what happened at the Ministry in OotP - which was why she was so desperate to stop Narcissa ruining his plans by asking Snape for help. I doubt that another of her relatives letting Voldemort down would please him too much. I still believe that for Bellatrix - her allegiance to Voldemort is her absolute number one priority.

I agree in the sense that she is trying to control Narcissa by telling her what to do about her own son. That controlling behavior is a sign that she is trying to make things work out for herself, instead of Narcissa, I believe. She doesn't really care about Draco, except that the Dark Lord has taken an interest in him and she has no children of her own. And that, I feel, is why she says if she had sons, she would want them to be sacrificed.

I agree that Bellatrix fears Voldemort - he is so powerful after all - but yes, I do not believe she is his follower merely because she needs a sense of protection (Peter, for example), but because she truly admires his power.
I might even go a bit further and put in that she may even see him in the light of a "god" like figure. In many religions followers are told to "fear" their god as in, knowing that he is all powerful. I believe that Bella fears LV in this way we see her being of reverance to him at all times. She even goes to say how she would gladly sacrifice a child towards him and his cause. Her beliefs, actions, and rituals are tied to LV. If there ever was a Vodlemort fundalmentalist...Bella takes the cake!

She sounded pretty fearful when she saw LV in the MoM, when she was at his knees explaining how she was fighting sirius and it wasn't her fault about the prophesy...I am sure that all of the death eaters would have this reaction - and Bellatrix, who sees herself as one of Voldemort's favorites, has the most to lose.
I might even go a bit further and put in that she may even see him in the light of a "god" like figure. In many religions followers are told to "fear" their god as in, knowing that he is all powerful. I believe that Bella fears LV in this way we see her being of reverance to him at all times. She even goes to say how she would gladly sacrifice a child towards him and his cause. Her beliefs, actions, and rituals are tied to LV. If there ever was a Vodlemort fundalmentalist...Bella takes the cake!She both fears and worships Voldemort. nice analogy :tu:

I think that Bella's loyalty to Voldemort has faltered just a bit because of Snape being valued so much. Bella certainly thinks that blood purity should be valued over everything else. She doesn't even consider Snape to be of her and Narcissa's kind. Thus, I think that Bella doubts that Voldemort is losing sight of their goals by valuing a half-blood more than herself. There's is also the fact that Harry called Voldemort a half-blood at the end of OoTP. That knowledge, combined with Snape being favoured, might lead to Bella questioning Voldemort's dedication to the Blood-purity issue.

I think that Bella's loyalty to Voldemort has faltered just a bit because of Snape being valued so much. Bella certainly thinks that blood purity should be valued over everything else. She doesn't even consider Snape to be of her and Narcissa's kind.
I'm not sure that her loyalty has faltered - I see it more as panic on her part that she is no longer as favoured as she once was. When she said she would sacrifice her son to the Dark Lord - I believe that was the ultimate proof of how much she wants to be his number one again. I'm not suggesting for a second that she wouldn't have sacrificed her child for him anyway - just that she was trying to prove herself to be the most faithful in front of Snape.

I agree with crookshanksfan to an extent. I do think Bella has changed a little since OotP, but I don't think her loyalty to Voldemort has faltered. In Spinner's End we do see her doubts about Snape, and ultimately Voldemort's judgement, but when Snape mentions that to her - she stops immediately. This suggests to me that she is just as terrified and obsessed as she ever was.
I think Bella has some doubts concerning Voldemort, but she doesn't want Snape to know that. She has to admit that she implicitly mistrusts Voldemort on one point - regarding his trust in Snape, but that's the only thing she'll admit to. I agree that Bella is terrified of Voldemort, and that's why she only unwillingly acknowledges that she thinks he is mistaken regarding Snape. The thought that Voldemort might hear of her "disloyalty" in suggesting he might be wrong probably scares her, unless she has already voiced her opinion on it. Come to think of it, it probably scares her whether Voldemort already knows or not. He wouldn't like to be reminded of it, I guess.

I tend to believe that Bella is a little confused herself as to what she thinks about Voldemort. She'd never admit to anyone else that she thinks she may be mistaken in him, but I think she may be fighting an internal battle concerning her own faith in her lord.
I think that Bella's loyalty to Voldemort has faltered just a bit because of Snape being valued so much. Bella certainly thinks that blood purity should be valued over everything else. She doesn't even consider Snape to be of her and Narcissa's kind. Thus, I think that Bella doubts that Voldemort is losing sight of their goals by valuing a half-blood more than herself. There's is also the fact that Harry called Voldemort a half-blood at the end of OoTP. That knowledge, combined with Snape being favoured, might lead to Bella questioning Voldemort's dedication to the Blood-purity issue.
That's an interesting point, I haven't thought about this before.
I'm not sure that her loyalty has faltered - I see it more as panic on her part that she is no longer as favoured as she once was. When she said she would sacrifice her son to the Dark Lord - I believe that was the ultimate proof of how much she wants to be his number one again. I'm not suggesting for a second that she wouldn't have sacrificed her child for him anyway - just that she was trying to prove herself to be the most faithful in front of Snape.
Actually, I agree with this too. I do believe her loyalty is faltering, but I also believe that she was trying to prove herself as a faithful servant in front of Snape. Like Lucius Malfoy, but in a slightly different way, she's preoccupied with appearances. And she's really, really proud. Which means that she'll have a tough time ever admitting she's been wrong about Voldemort - if she should reach that conclusion.

Although this is slightly off-topic (in the direction of Divination), I'd just like to add that I don't see Bella as having lost her faith in Voldemort yet. But I think she may have started on that path. I believe it possible that during Deathly Hallows, we may see Bella's view of Voldemort changing even more, so that she may ultimately become bitter towards him.

And, with the danger of repeating myself yet again; the reason I think she may become bitter is that, in GoF (I think), when Harry sees the Longbottom trial in the Pensieve, Bella speaks of the reward she'll receive when the Dark Lord returns. My belief is that she really thought all those years in Azkaban earned her a great reward, but she hasn't really received the kind of reward she feels she deserve. And Voldemort just doesn't value her as he should. All this may develop into bitterness over time.

The thought that Voldemort might hear of her "disloyalty" in suggesting he might be wrong probably scares her, unless she has already voiced her opinion on it.
Voicing her opinion to Voldemort is not something I can imagine her doing, for fear of him favouring her even less. I believe that was the reason she backed down when Snape asked her if she thought Voldemort was mistaken placing trust in him. Her master getting wind of her questioning him would not go down too well, methinks.

Voicing her opinion to Voldemort is not something I can imagine her doing, for fear of him favouring her even less.

Do you think Bellatrix would dare to confront Voldemort if she were to stick up for Narcissa? From the Spinner's End scene, I gathered that Bella cares about her sister but if given a choice, would she pick her over her master? :huh:

Do you think Bellatrix would dare to confront Voldemort if she were to stick up for Narcissa? From the Spinner's End scene, I gathered that Bella cares about her sister but if given a choice, would she pick her over her master? :huh:
I doubt it very much. I think the panic Bella was showing in Spinner's End was purely for herself. As I said earlier, in Bella's eyes, she was just concerned that another one of her relatives was about to let Voldemort down, I don't think it was genuine concern for her sister. :shrug:

I think that that might be Bellatrix's definition of concern though. She worships Voldemort and thinks that everything does and ought to revolve around him and his wishes. So if Narcissa is going against that, that means (to Bellatrix), that Narcissa is doing something wrong, something disdainful - and Bellatrix may have been trying to protect her from it. It's twisted of course, but I do think that Bellatrix beleives that she does care about her sister.

I agree that Bella does care about her sister in some weird way. She thinks that Narcissa is going behind Voldemort's back and Bella wants to protect her.

Voicing her opinion to Voldemort is not something I can imagine her doing, for fear of him favouring her even less. I believe that was the reason she backed down when Snape asked her if she thought Voldemort was mistaken placing trust in him. Her master getting wind of her questioning him would not go down too well, methinks.
Just for clarification, IMP, would you mind posting the relevant quote from the Spinner's End chapter? I don't have my books with me just now, and I don't remember how that passage goes.

Just for clarification, IMP, would you mind posting the relevant quote from the Spinner's End chapter? I don't have my books with me just now, and I don't remember how that passage goes.
Sure!

"Before I answer you - oh yes, Bellatrix, I am going to answer! You can carry my words back to the others whi whisper behind my back and carry false tales of my treachery to the Dark Lord! Before I answer you, I say, let me ask a question in turn. Do you really think that the Dark Lord has not asked me each and every one of those questions? And do you really think that, had I not been able to give satisfactory answers, I would be sitting here talking to you?"
She hesitated.
"I know he believes you, but-"
"You think he is mistaken? Or that I have somehow hoodwinked him? Fooled the Dark Lord, the greatest wizard, the most accomplished Legilimens the world has ever see?"
Bellatrix said nothing, but looked for the first time, a little discomfited.
There you go. :D

i think bella should try to kiss up on voldemort in number 7. then voldei would HATE HER. SHE DESERVES IT!

That's a really great passage. Snape was absolutely brilliant there - he played up the one thing sure to get to Bellatrix - her absolute faith in Voldemort.

That's a really great passage. Snape was absolutely brilliant there - he played up the one thing sure to get to Bellatrix - her absolute faith in Voldemort.
Yes, he really knows how to get to people, doesn't he? There was nothing more guaranteed to get under Bella's skin than mentioning something that she was probably trying to keep buried deep inside her. That she actually was questioning Voldemort. If she had had her wits about her, she might have wanted to have tried harder at using Occlumency against him! ;)

i think bella should try to kiss up on voldemort in number 7. then voldei would HATE HER. SHE DESERVES IT!
:welcome: hpf4life! I hope you have fun posting here :D

I think that Bellatrix probably has already done a lot of kissing up to Voldemort, and I'm just as sure that it annoys him to no end. But, I think that he has probably fostered and encouraged her worshiping behavior, because it is useful to him. Voldemort needs a talented, rash, tisted and worshiping follower - and Bellatrix is it.

Yes, he really knows how to get to people, doesn't he? There was nothing more guaranteed to get under Bella's skin than mentioning something that she was probably trying to keep buried deep inside her. That she actually was questioning Voldemort. If she had had her wits about her, she might have wanted to have tried harder at using Occlumency against him! I think Bellatrix was feeling guilty about doubting Voldemort, and she definitely wouldn't want to admit to Snape of all people that she had such sacreligious doubts!

I


Although this is slightly off-topic (in the direction of Divination), I'd just like to add that I don't see Bella as having lost her faith in Voldemort yet. But I think she may have started on that path. I believe it possible that during Deathly Hallows, we may see Bella's view of Voldemort changing even more, so that she may ultimately become bitter towards him.

And, with the danger of repeating myself yet again; the reason I think she may become bitter is that, in GoF (I think), when Harry sees the Longbottom trial in the Pensieve, Bella speaks of the reward she'll receive when the Dark Lord returns. My belief is that she really thought all those years in Azkaban earned her a great reward, but she hasn't really received the kind of reward she feels she deserve. And Voldemort just doesn't value her as he should. All this may develop into bitterness over time.

I can definitely see this happening. Bella seems to have taken at least the first step down this path when she said that Voldemort was mistaken. This could turn into anger and bitterness in Boook 7.

"Before I answer you - oh yes, Bellatrix, I am going to answer! You can carry my words back to the others whi whisper behind my back and carry false tales of my treachery to the Dark Lord! Before I answer you, I say, let me ask a question in turn. Do you really think that the Dark Lord has not asked me each and every one of those questions? And do you really think that, had I not been able to give satisfactory answers, I would be sitting here talking to you?"
She hesitated.
"I know he believes you, but-"
"You think he is mistaken? Or that I have somehow hoodwinked him? Fooled the Dark Lord, the greatest wizard, the most accomplished Legilimens the world has ever see?"
Bellatrix said nothing, but looked for the first time, a little discomfited.
There you go. :D
Thank you, IMP! This quote also shows some of Bella's recklessness. She suggests to Snape, face to face, that he's disloyal. But she doesn't realize that she simultaneously mistrusts Voldemort's sense of judgement. My opinion, though, is that she is worried that her suspicions might reach Voldemort's ears, but that doesn't mean that she trusts Snape. She's got a real dilemma on this point, I think...
That's a really great passage. Snape was absolutely brilliant there - he played up the one thing sure to get to Bellatrix - her absolute faith in Voldemort.
The conversation is almost like a game of mental strength or something. Snape challenges Bella, not just by suggesting that she mistrusts Voldemort, but also in reminding her of Voldemort's power. If Bella's loyalty falters, Voldemort will find out. The "or" in Snape's last reply in the quote is really unnecessary. If Voldemort is mistaken, it is because Snape has hoodwinked him. In a way, what Snape says, is:
If I'm not a traitor, then you have doubted Voldemort's sense of judgement for no reason. He won't like that. If I'm a traitor, then I have fooled Voldemort, and is a greater occlumens than he is a legilimens. So in this area I'm more powerful than Voldemort.

Not exactly a nice position for Bella to be in, is it?

The conversation is almost like a game of mental strength or something. Snape challenges Bella, not just by suggesting that she mistrusts Voldemort, but also in reminding her of Voldemort's power. If Bella's loyalty falters, Voldemort will find out. The "or" in Snape's last reply in the quote is really unnecessary. If Voldemort is mistaken, it is because Snape has hoodwinked him. In a way, what Snape says, is:
If I'm not a traitor, then you have doubted Voldemort's sense of judgement for no reason. He won't like that. If I'm a traitor, then I have fooled Voldemort, and is a greater occlumens than he is a legilimens. So in this area I'm more powerful than Voldemort.

Not exactly a nice position for Bella to be in, is it?
I think that's spot on! :clap:

I also wonder if Bella realised that her thoughts were expressing doubt of Voldemort till Snape pointed that out to her. Her instincts seem to be telling her that Snape is up to no good, in which case he has fooled Voldemort and Voldemort is not infallible. But I don't think she had made that step in her thinking until that moment. If she is now consumed with doubt about Voldemort, then I'd assume she is also very frightened and confused. Where that will lead her will be interesting.

1. Bellatrix is often seen as the most fanatical of Voldemort's supporters. Why do you think it is that she has devoted her life and efforts so wholly to Voldemort? What influences in her family and life could have led to her becoming one of the most feared Death Eaters? Could she have any romantic feelings for Voldemort?

Maybe she likes him, but mostly, they believe the same thing and are evil. The pure-blood mania from when she was a child may have started that.

2. What do you suppose leads Bellatrix to distrust Snape so, as seen in the HBP chapter 'Spinner's End'? Does this cast any doubts upon her complete trust in Voldemort? Does it speak of any prior relationship with Snape?

I think it's from his being a spy, a doubleagent. It might also deal with how they used to know each other, ect. Yes, it casts some doubts, but not many.

3. What kind of relationship do you think that Bellatrix had with her cousin, Sirius, for her to so easily battle against, and ultimately have a hand in killing him?

I think they didn't agree or get along at all. Sirius and Bellatrix were also enemies in Voldy War I.

4. Bellatrix is said to have been at school and joined forces with several other Death Eaters prior to Harry's parents being at Hogwarts. What factors do you see as contributing to the turning of Bellatrix and her peers to Voldemort, and how could they have gotten away with this in the middle of Hogwarts?

Well, Voldemort was powerful, scary, knowledgeable, and enticing. They were probably seen as his 'friends' until much later.

5. Bellatrix seems to have a fondness for the Cruciatus curse. What do you think that this says about her personality and history?

It says she has a lot of hate, and may be deranged from her time in Azkaban, and helping Voldy. Besides that, I don't know, but it's probably interesting.

6. What role do you see Bellatrix playing in book seven? Will she finally get her come-uppance for her crimes, and if so, who will dish this out?

I see her helping Voldemort again, and fighting the Order. If she does get come-uppance for her crimes, either she dies, or someone in the Order dishes it out. I don't see the Ministry getting the top hand after all this time.

I see her giving up everything to save Voldermort and realizing at that moment that he couldn't care less about her.

I also wonder if Bella realised that her thoughts were expressing doubt of Voldemort till Snape pointed that out to her. Her instincts seem to be telling her that Snape is up to no good, in which case he has fooled Voldemort and Voldemort is not infallible. But I don't think she had made that step in her thinking until that moment. If she is now consumed with doubt about Voldemort, then I'd assume she is also very frightened and confused. Where that will lead her will be interesting.

Err. Slight problem there. She did express her doubts about Voldemort's judgement, when she was alone with Narsicca. She just can't say it outright to Snape, lest word of it reach Voldemort. Here's the relevant quote from the text.

"The Dark Lord trusts him, doesn't he?"
"The Dark Lord is... I believe... mistaken," Bella panted, and her eyes gleamed momentarily under her hood as she looked around to check that they were indeed alone.

This was before they met Snape.

Bouncing in here with a quick thought: If Bella is worried about her Master being mistaken, could her list of questions in Spinner's End be on some level a way to put her mind at ease? If all the bases she could think of were covered, and Snape passed the "test", so to speak, she could continue to happily believe her Master is infallible. I'm pretty sure that she does not want Voldemort to be mistaken at all, since that would be a crack in the image she has built of him in her mind.

If Bella is worried about her Master being mistaken, could her list of questions in Spinner's End be on some level a way to put her mind at ease? If all the bases she could think of were covered, and Snape passed the "test", so to speak, she could continue to happily believe her Master is infallible. I'm pretty sure that she does not want Voldemort to be mistaken at all, since that would be a crack in the image she has built of him in her mind.
Good thought. However, I think that her questions at Spinner's End were more directed to attack Snape. Not only is she upset that LV trusts him so much. While the whole time she was in Azkaban for LV, Snape was comfortably at Hogwarts. In my opinion she doesn't feel that Snape is loyal and the fact that LV seems to trust him more than her, eats at her. In her eyes, I think she sees herself as the only true loyal supporter of LV and the fact that someone else may threaten her spot of "LV's Favorite" (I don't think he has any...but I think Bella thinks he does) enrages her.

Good thought. However, I think that her questions at Spinner's End were more directed to attack Snape. Not only is she upset that LV trusts him so much. While the whole time she was in Azkaban for LV, Snape was comfortably at Hogwarts. In my opinion she doesn't feel that Snape is loyal and the fact that LV seems to trust him more than her, eats at her. In her eyes, I think she sees herself as the only true loyal supporter of LV and the fact that someone else may threaten her spot of "LV's Favorite" (I don't think he has any...but I think Bella thinks he does) enrages her.
Agreed 100%. Though I do think there is some truth in what ignisia said too. Whether Bella realised it or not, I don't know - but I do believe that somewhere in the depths of her mind she was trying to reassure herself that Voldemort was right, so as not to tarnish the image she had built up of him.

I'd forgotten that quote, vivekgk! I concede the point!

I don't think her questions to Snape were to prove Voldy right though - she seemed angered or non-plussed when Snape came up with convincing responses. If she wanted LV to be right you'd think she'd be pleased with his replies. But she isn't. Which makes me think she is certain LV is mistaken because she doesn't trust Snape one inch. Is that just because of jealousy?

I think that it was only partly jealously on Bella's part. She wants to be Voldemort's favorite but at the same time she is beginning to question him.

I agree in the sense that she is trying to control Narcissa by telling her what to do about her own son. That controlling behavior is a sign that she is trying to make things work out for herself, instead of Narcissa, I believe. She doesn't really care about Draco, except that the Dark Lord has taken an interest in him and she has no children of her own. And that, I feel, is why she says if she had sons, she would want them to be sacrificed.

Whatever she does is meant to bring some good to herself, and no other. She is very self centered and can do anything that will bring some good to her and raise her stature in the eyes of her master.

1. Bellatrix is often seen as the most fanatical of Voldemort's supporters. Why do you think it is that she has devoted her life and efforts so wholly to Voldemort? What influences in her family and life could have led to her becoming one of the most feared Death Eaters? Could she have any romantic feelings for Voldemort?

-Bellatrix is clearly deranged from Azkaban but, even in the memory of her trial, she seems almost psychotic. The very normal Andromeda is her sister, so her upbringing could not be the only factor in her near mania for LV. I don't think Voldermort really gives off the air of being a romantic love but rather, like Bella, a lover of power.


2. What do you suppose leads Bellatrix to distrust Snape so, as seen in the HBP chapter 'Spinner's End'? Does this cast any doubts upon her complete trust in Voldemort? Does it speak of any prior relationship with Snape?

-I don't think it casts any doubts about her obsession with Voldermort. I see it more as a competition. Bella strikes me as paranoid, probably always worried who has *** ability to surpass her as LV's "favorite" and Snape falls into that competitor category. She probably sees at as you either revere BOTH Voldermort AND herself, or you compete with her to be Voldermort's top Death Eater.

3. What kind of relationship do you think that Bellatrix had with her cousin, Sirius, for her to so easily battle against, and ultimately have a hand in killing him?

-She probably exiled him from the family the moment he was placed in Gryffindor, marking him as a blood traitor. When they grew older, with Voldermort gaining power, their differences were highlighted further and they both developed a mutual disgust.


4. Bellatrix is said to have been at school and joined forces with several other Death Eaters prior to Harry's parents being at Hogwarts. What factors do you see as contributing to the turning of Bellatrix and her peers to Voldemort, and how could they have gotten away with this in the middle of Hogwarts?

-DD probably feared that they would be harmed if LV knew that others were suspicious of their behavior (like with Draco). A lust for power and a purification of wizard kind might have led them to LV.


5. Bellatrix seems to have a fondness for the Cruciatus curse. What do you think that this says about her personality and history?

-Her personality seems borderline psychotic and definitely evil. LV is evil but not crazy. He is capable of reason and organization to lead a band of evil doers and never be defeated (save the er, minor mishap of Harry:p). Bella, on the other hand, is blinded by obsessive love for LV.


6. What role do you see Bellatrix playing in book seven? Will she finally get her come-uppance for her crimes, and if so, who will dish this out?


-Her come-uppance better come! The order will definitely be the one to take her down, preferably Lupin or Neville. Her role will contiue to be that of insanely devout DE but her inability to keep her mouth shut (like Lucius) and keep her cool (like LV) will lead to her ultimate demise

Bella, on the other hand, is blinded by obsessive love for LV.

Very true...she has a husband that we very rarely see or hear about. What does he think about her obsession? We know he too is a DE, what kind of relationship do her and her husband have? It seems her first priority in life is LV, wouldnt this create some strain on their relationship?

Bella claims to be LVs most faithful servant, and from what Ive seen a decent witch with a very strong personality, why is she such a follower? She said she would sacrifice a son to the Dark Lord if she could, what would create so much need to be accepted by one power hungry man? Is it just that Bella agrees with LVs principles that much, that she has to follow every command, every order, and appeal to him that much? That doesnt make sense to me....any feedback?

well, we can assume that she wasn't quite as mad when going into prison as she was when coming out again, after fifteen years with the Dementors and all. Hagrid says that many prisoners just give up because they can't take it any longer. Bellatrix has been clinging to that one idea - that she isn't there in vain, that Voldemort is still alive, how she will glory once he's back. She's worked herself into that mad obsession. Even if she was an avid follower of his cause, I don't think she was that over the top back then.

Now she and Rodolphus certainly didn't have a cell together, and between their outbreak and his second round in Azkaban, they didn't have a chance for much quality time either. I don't think that Rodolphus would have seen much call for jealousy, and I don't believe he'd have a reason either. Bella's love for Voldemort is the love for an ideal, for a cause, for a way of living. It's not to be compared to the 'normal' kind of love.

I see, she did spend alot of time locked up with the Dementors, and I guess she hasnt seen her husband too often, but we have Sirius to compare her to, and he isnt completely mad like she is. She just seems like she went off the deep end a long time ago. "You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long -- I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson --" OotP ch36
I mean, I understand loyalty just fine, but she is screaming about besmirching Voldys name and torturing people for fun. I cant agree that its just for "a way of living". Sirius was locked up in Azkaban with a similar thought about avenging James and Lilys death by killing Pettigrew and he was able to keep somewhat sane. Maybe she isnt as strong as Sirius, which is ironic, because she played a large part in his death.

Sirius had a very different idea to cling to, namely that at least he knew that he was innocent. Bellatrix could only cling to the idea that she had manouebred herself in prison for a valid reason, namely that the Dark Lord was still alive (otherwise, her action would have been senseless, and she'd have been condamned to simply rottening away). I think when you have more than a decade with some mind-twisting device (the dementors) in a dark prison cell, it matters highly what exactly your thoughts are evolving around.


I didn't mean to say that Bella was anything near pleasant before she went to Azkaban. She was a sadist, she loved torturing people for the fun of it, possibly. But she wasn't as clinically mad as we see her in OotP. Besides, she's regained some of her nerve at the beginning of HBP again already. The woman we see there is ruthless and doesn't shrink away from thinking that sacrificing her own nephew might just be worth it. But she's not the mad killer on the loose we've seen in the Ministry.

I agree with Fleur du Mal's last post. It does seem that she has calmed down a bit. It could be that Azkaban temporaraly blinded her of everything but evilness, but after the Ministry disaster (in which Voldemort probably gave her some sort of punishment...) she seems to have regained a bit of her consience (I can't spell that!).

I agree, she has calmed down slightly since OotP, but we didnt see her much in HBP. But still I cant see anyone who is willing to sacrifice their nephew, son, brother, uncle, cousin anything but clinically insane. Call me biased, crazy, or otherwise:D.

I often wonder about her relationship with Rodulphous as well. They clearly are not close after their time apart in Azkaban and you rarely hear her mention him as lovingly as she does LV. IS a person as cruel as she is even capable of loving someone in a healthy way?

I see it being a more twisted love affair. A sexual attraction combined wiht a mutual love of LV. I can't exactly see them having a nice chitchat over dinner:no:

that might well be true, but I don't believe we're going to find out about any 'twisted sexual relationships' in DH :no:

Rodolphus and Bellatrix have a good relatioship?

1. Bellatrix is often seen as the most fanatical of Voldemort's supporters. Why do you think it is that she has devoted her life and efforts so wholly to Voldemort? What influences in her family and life could have led to her becoming one of the most feared Death Eaters? Could she have any romantic feelings for Voldemort?

I think this question reads way too much into Bella's character. I think she was created by JKR to be evil. She was given the background of being raised in a family of purebloods, many of whom are Death Eaters and/or supporters of Voldemort. As such her allegiance to him would be almost natural. Her rather fanatical desire could be based in a true belief that Voldemort will win and all of his followers will sit in seats of glory at his side.


2. What do you suppose leads Bellatrix to distrust Snape so, as seen in the HBP chapter 'Spinner's End'? Does this cast any doubts upon her complete trust in Voldemort? Does it speak of any prior relationship with Snape?

Snape hangs out with Dumbles at Hogwarts. He has done many things that show he might be a trader as Bella pointed out. His ready answers seemed to have convinced her in HP; however, I wasn't convinced that she had complete faith in him. I think that killing Dumbles will help her faith along, but not altogether. I think she will be one of the first to accuse him of still being a spy.

3. What kind of relationship do you think that Bellatrix had with her cousin, Sirius, for her to so easily battle against, and ultimately have a hand in killing him?

Easily battle against? Read the book again. If he hadn't fallen, she would likely be goners.

4. Bellatrix is said to have been at school and joined forces with several other Death Eaters prior to Harry's parents being at Hogwarts. What factors do you see as contributing to the turning of Bellatrix and her peers to Voldemort, and how could they have gotten away with this in the middle of Hogwarts?

I don't think there was any "turning" on Bella's part at all. I think she was ready to be faithful from the start. That because she had been convinced during her upbringing of his right to be master and she believed it.

5. Bellatrix seems to have a fondness for the Cruciatus curse. What do you think that this says about her personality and history?

I think JKR has a fondness for that particular curse. I think she makes Bella and all Death Eaters use it whenever they can. I don't think she personally has a greater fondness for it than anyone else. It even popped out of Harry's mouth in the runaway scene and Draco's in the bathroom. Two of the curses would not work out in most situations (death of a character and making the character act against his will). However, crucio works!

6. What role do you see Bellatrix playing in book seven? Will she finally get her come-uppance for her crimes, and if so, who will dish this out?

Bella's only role will be to participate in evil and die at the hands of Harry (or possibly Lupin/Pettigrew) in revenge for Sirius' death. JKR is supposed to give us the 'awe inspiring' reason Sirius had to die, and I really doubt it is merely so there would be an overriding reason to kill Bella. However, Bella will serve that purpose nonetheless.

Going back a bit here:

Bouncing in here with a quick thought: If Bella is worried about her Master being mistaken, could her list of questions in Spinner's End be on some level a way to put her mind at ease? If all the bases she could think of were covered, and Snape passed the "test", so to speak, she could continue to happily believe her Master is infallible. I'm pretty sure that she does not want Voldemort to be mistaken at all, since that would be a crack in the image she has built of him in her mind.

I think this is very true. Either Voldemort or Snape has to be wrong in this instance, and I know Bellatrix would much prefer it to be Snape. Which is probably why the whole conversation infuriates her; she's being outmanuvered left and right, and it really does start to seem like Voldemort likes Snape more than her.

Umm what gives anyone the idea that Bella thinkis Voldemort is infallible? He was struck down by a baby; he lost again at the tri-wiz tourney; he failed at the Ministry during the Dept. of Mysteries catastrophe and bella is aware of these things.

She also knew that he was too weak to waltz right into the DOM and grab the prophecy for himself; kill Dumbledore himself and she didn't trust Snape when Voldy did.

I think she knows he has limits, I think she just realizes he is a great wizard and if he wins against Harry (and the order), he WILL rule and she will be in a place of honor.

Umm what gives anyone the idea that Bella thinkis Voldemort is infallible? He was struck down by a baby;

what might make some of us think she believes in him completely is the fact that AFTER he's been defeated by a baby, Bella still willingly goes to Azkaban for him. Obviously, she hasn't minded, she goes to prison like a queen.

And Dementor-guarded Azkaban, we have learnt, isn't likely to make people more sane.

3. What kind of relationship do you think that Bellatrix had with her cousin, Sirius, for her to so easily battle against, and ultimately have a hand in killing him?

Easily battle against? Read the book again. If he hadn't fallen, she would likely be goners.
I thought the question aimed at, 'why would she so readily ('easily') murder her own cousin? How might the relationship among those two have looked like in the past?'

I think people overlook the fanatical nature of Belatrix and the fact that she wants to be the most honored and trusted servant of VM. She probably wanted Snape to be a traitor, it would both eliminate the competition and provide a way to endear herself further to her master. Her mistrust and suspicions are probably just as strong towards other DEs as well.

yes, that's what I think, too. She doesn't like rivals for the Dark Lord's attention, and Snape appears like the number one combatant for the job, all the more since HBP

yes, that's what I think, too. She doesn't like rivals for the Dark Lord's attention, and Snape appears like the number one combatant for the job, all the more since HBP


Tank you for that nod, I appreciate support, especially on these threads!
Do you also see the possibility that she might actually attempt to eliminate the compitition given the chance? I think that would be consistant with her character.

Tank you for that nod, I appreciate support, especially on these threads!
Do you also see the possibility that she might actually attempt to eliminate the compitition given the chance? I think that would be consistant with her character.

That was no nod, but genuine agreement :agree:

I can see her wanting to eliminate Snape - and perhaps this was also the reason why she acted the way she did in Spinner's End. I wondered why she'd allow Narcissa to 'betray' Voldemort... After she just said that she'd be proud to sacrifice her own son - if she had one - for her master's crusade, it appeared weird to me that she'd cheat on her master only because her sister was having a bit of a nervous breakdown. Perhaps she thought that this could be an option of getting rid of Snape, a bit similar to what Voldemort had in mind with Draco - 'either this greasy bloke isn't true to our cause in the first place and wouldn't kill Dumbledore so he'd drop dead OR he is killed while trying to fulfil the Vow OR the master kills him for his disobedience (because he was supposed to stay in Hogwarts as a spy even after Dumbledore's death)'

Having said this - she might WANT to get rid of Snape - I must say that I don't see her succeeding. Simply because I believe Snape to be one hell of a sharp mind, and Bella... Well, her grip with reality isn't what it's supposed to be, is it. :no:

I agree with you too, OldLupin. To me it was clear at Spinner's End that she hated Snape and tried to discredit him every chance she got. I'm sure she would eliminate the compitition if she had the chance. There is a thread around here about why Bella wasn't at the Tower when Dumbledore died. I think she might not have been there because she would try to interfere, to make herself look better.

I think that Bella would spread disinfo and the like to get ahead in the DE pecking order (the collective delusion that they all have that there is a "favorite"), but I don't see her physically killing another DE or the like. That could risk the wrath of Voldemort. But it'd please her to no end to manipulate Voldy into killing another DE who "stood in her way". She just doesn't realize that Voldy has no "favorite", he only has DE's who have failed him recently and DE's who haven't.

I thought the question aimed at, 'why would she so readily ('easily') murder her own cousin? How might the relationship among those two have looked like in the past?'

Ahh...well that would require a better answer then. But it is an easy answer. She hated Sirius and everything he stood for. He was the total opposite of her with respect to her belief system. She always hated him even when she was younger, once it was evident that he was going to break from the mold (something she did not do). Sirius hated Voldy and she had great respect, honor, love, etc for the man.

It was likely as "easy" for him to murder her as it was for her to murder him. She was a sworn DE and he had as little regard for her as she did for him. They were both likely thinking that putting an end to the life of the other would be best for wizard kind.

There is also the fact that they had both suffered through Azkaban and that just made them both a little more nutters than usual. Sirius likely suffered less as from his own admission being a dog helped, but each had a slight (or greater) tweak to the mind going at that point and I think it made killing the other just that much easier.

I don't think that Sirius and Bella had much of a relationship in the past. Sirius had made a clean break with his family, and they probably only knew each other up until the age of 13-15 or so. They were in different houses, and Sirius ran away from home, so they probably had little if any interaction for about 10 years or so before they both got to Azkaban. I don't think it pained Bella at all to kill Sirius - he basically wasn't family to her.

Yes, Bellatrix does seem to hold the delusion that she is (or has the ability) to be Voldemort's most trusted and valued servant. She's fanatical and evil. But even she has a soft side: her sister. She has shown the same faults as the other Death Eaters and VM himself (they are determined to ignore Harry and Company's threat) and her fanatical nature is not something we see in his other followers. Most of the Death Eaters are there mostly out of fear (there are other motivations, but fear is always there). Bellatrix is fearful of VM, but mostly because she doesn't want to lower her status as the most revered DE. Her relationship has struck me almost romantic (at least on her part). It's hard to put my finger on it, because her feelings toward him are more than that of a servant.

I like that you point out her soft side Weas. It is true, despite everything she has been through (torture by Voldy and Azkaban) she still has a capacity for love (not totally nutters). Who knows, maybe when Voldemort dies she'll jump through the veil and throw Sirius back out...

Well, she's not as evil as VM but I don't see her helping anyone out. Except herself, or more likely, VM. She deserves death in Deathly Hallows almost as much as VM, Pettigrew and Greyback do. Neville's parents, Sirius Black and countless others were tortured or killed at her hands. Can't forget that. No redemption for that.

I like that you point out her soft side Weas. It is true, despite everything she has been through (torture by Voldy and Azkaban) she still has a capacity for love (not totally nutters). Who knows, maybe when Voldemort dies she'll jump through the veil and throw Sirius back out...
Remember what Bella's main reason was for following Narcissa to Snape's, she didn't want her to go behind Voldemort's back and spill secrets to the "traitor" Snape.
I guess you can see this as an act of sisterly love. Bella didn't want Narcissa to anger Voldemort and get hurt/killed.
I'm not sure if Bella can feel love or compassion in the true sense of the words. She seems more than happy to offer up Draco to Voldemort. She even says if she had sons, she would be glad to give them up so they could serve Voldemort. This doesn't sound like the words of a sane/loving women.
I don't think she can be redeemed. She might have some feelings for her sister. But I think if the situation was right (like Narcissa completely going against Voldemort) she would kill her.

1. I dont think that Bella would have any romantic feelings for voldemort, i think maybe that the influences her family had on her would have a huge impact, I've always imagined that Bella would of joined the Death eaters is probably to have a sense of belonging, maybe even feelings that shes needed. I can imagine that her family would of treated her like an object as such, not caring for her as a daughter, but maybe "caring" for her as to where she could be in society.I think that she has devoted herself to Voldemort because she feels needed and accepted, shes probably too evil now to really have those insecurities but im guessing that maybe she did as a younger girl.

2. I dont think it has anything to do with a prior relationship to Snape, i think that its the fact that he is very good at occlumency and may even have the power to decieve Voldemort, also how he already seems such a good spy/lier/deciever for all those years under Dumbledores guide, that it could be very easy to be a double spy.She's probably more concerned of the fact that Voldemort may be betrayed, rather then her trust in him.


3. They probably had a very hostile relationship towards eachother, given that Sirius was disowned from his own family, Bella growing up in an anti muggle environment would of passionately believed that Sirius was hanging around "filth" and from that, they probably did not get along very well and probably because he was simply part of the order and being Voldemorts most loyal supporter, why wouldnt she kill him?

4. Tom riddle was said to be somewhat somewhat of a genius, if he could have discovered the chamber of secrets all by himself without anyone knowing, i am pretty sure he could find a way to keep their cause hidden. Also because tom was so well liked throughout the school with many admirers, the soon to be deatheaters were his friends, so that would of contributed to their willingness to join him.

5. Bellatrix's fondness for the Cruciatus curse tells us that she has a VERY sadistic personality, and maybe grew up seeing others being put in pain, maybe to her cousin Sirius, to muggleborns etc.

6. Im not really sure on what role Bella would play in book 7, but i think some form of justice will be served on her, i think Neville may be the one to defeat her, it would be a wonderful revenge plan. :D

I thought the question aimed at, 'why would she so readily ('easily') murder her own cousin? How might the relationship among those two have looked like in the past?' I think that Bellatrix has murdered so often in the past that she doesn't think about it anymore. Sirius says that they hadn't seen each other in years, and Bellatrix would just think of him as another enemy of the Dark Lord. Murder is too well ingrained in her for her to think twice.

Going back to the idea of Bellatrix not being above getting rid of the competition for Voldemort's favor, I think she might've done just that in HBP.

It's a bit of a stretch, but follow me. Snape, at Slughorn's Christmas party, speaks to Draco, and attempts to use Legilimency against him. Draco is able to block him, using Occlumency skills that Snape says he'd learned from Bellatrix.
Draco, we know, was charged with killing Dumbledore. Snape was attempting to figure out what his plan of action was, but couldn't. Draco himself was blocking Snape, because he wanted the glory from Voldemort for completing his mission, rather than having Snape take it. Snape had promised in the Unbreakable Vow to keep Draco safe, and help him where possible.
Bellatrix, of course, knew of the Vow. She also hates Snape, and quite possibly sees him as competition for the spot of Voldemort's "favorite." She knew that if Snape failed in his duties as listed by the Vow, he'd die. By teaching Draco Occlumency, it keeps Snape out of the loop, so when Draco finally impliments his plan, and fails (I don't think anyone thought for a minute he'd succeed), Snape would be killed, unable to keep up his end of the Vow.

It's a complex plan, and it requires a lot more sublety than I thought Bellatrix possessed, but it fits her. Sneaky, underhanded, and using any means at her disposal to achieve her ends. She'd even put her nephew in the line of danger for her own gain.