Harry Potter: Character Analysis

What can we say about our hero? We've watched him grow from an orphaned infant to a young man. We've seen him at his best and his worst, through triumph to failure, from love to loss. We tend to forget Harry because everything is viewed through his eyes, he's so constant we start to take his presence for granted. This thread is to analyse his character development through the first six books and hopefully this analysis will be able to shed some light on how he will react to the challenges he will face in the final book.

Some discussion questions to get started. Feel free to answer as many of these as you'd like.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Please remember that this is a discussion thread. All criticism should be constructive. You can say "Harry made a mistake by doing such and such" but not "Harry is a stupid sullen git". Posts that are considered bashing may be deleted by staff.

How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

To me, this is certainly the most "unknowable" question of the entire series.

Certainly Harry has learned or developed an emotional strength that allowed him to simply survive the hours/days of hunger and darkness spent alone in the cupboard as a small child. His view of the world has been skewed by what little of it he had seen in those years. The interesting dichotomy is that he possesses such an enormous amount of an emotion of which he was given no example; love.

Tom Riddle, on the other hand, raised in the absence of the kind of cruelty suffered by Harry, embraced that very trait.

Dumbledore's words regarding Sirius's treatment of Kreacher seem to have deep meaning here:

“Sirius did not hate Kreacher,” said Dumbledore. “He regarded him as a servant unworthy of much interest or notice. Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike. . . The fountain we destroyed tonight told a lie. We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows for too long, and we are now reaping our reward.” OotP US ed. p.883-884

Harry's experiences are often thought of as abusive in light of Voldemort's environment at the orphanage in which the children appeared clean and well cared for. However, a very thorough reading of Harry's experiences at the Dursley's seem to be much more an example of neglect - they treat him as nothing, unimportant, rather than as an object of direct abuse or hatred. Although no evidence exists as to Tom Riddle's treatment emotionally, one can hardly imagine that there was much time for closeness and a parental sort of love or bonding to exist. The orphans may have been properly fed and clothed, but it is not a stretch of the imagination to see them as having been warehoused and not much more.

Both boys exhibit, as their most powerful emotion, that which they have no experience, and yet I would like to think that the circumstances in which an individual is raised do not determine the kind of person they will be; that a person becomes who they are based solely on their choices.

Although I would like to believe that Harry would still be the kind, compassionate and loving, strong-willed person he is regardless of the home in which he was raised, I just can find no way of knowing.

As a side note - Dumbledore explains that Harry's deep need for revenge for the killing of his father is what makes him most dangerous to Voldemort. Given the circumstances of the prophecy, Harry would certainly be in a different situation if not a different person entirely if his parents were to have survived.

When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

Harry's first real encounter with Voldemort that we actually see as it happens is at the end of SS. (I discount Godric's Hollow, as Harry was an infant, and I discount the meeting in the forest, as Harry did not know exactly what was going on until Firenze told him after the fact.) Harry wasn't interested in saving his own life. In fact, his entire motive in going after the stone in the first place was to prevent Voldemort from coming back. If he was truly interested in saving himself from Voldemort, he would have gained a permanent protection from death by attempting to obtain the stone for himself. Harry instinctually wanted to keep Voldemort from becoming immortal. Although it isn't spelled out for us that Harry was consciously thinking about protecting the world from Voldemort, it seems that this is precisely what he was doing. In the end, he was experiencing great pain in maintaining a hold on Quirrellmort, yet he refused to let go. He didn't fear that he might die - and in fact, we later learn from Dumbledore that he nearly did. And from Harry's own lips we learn that he was trying to keep Quirrellmort "off the stone" - not off of himself.

Harry's "saving people thing" is most certainly his greatest strength and his biggest flaw. His love and compassion are "the power the Dark Lord knows not" and both have and will continue to be what chips away at Voldemort's life. As in PS/SS, Voldemort was forced to flee because of this power. In CoS a piece of Voldemort's soul was destroyed because of Harry's "love" or compassion for others (Ginny). In PoA, Harry's compassion spared Pettigrew - sending a servant in Harry's debt back to Voldemort. In GoF, things are a bit less clear. I see it as Harry having saved many lives on some level (at least, in theory). Although Gabriel Delacour and Ron were no actual danger of death, Harry gained the respect of others due to his actions. Fleur in particular, and perhaps others in her family? Percy is relieved to see Ron, but fails to acknowledge Harry's role (maybe that will come back to him later?). Harry risks his own life to bring Cedric's body back to his family. Certainly the Diggorys are thankful to Harry for that. In OotP, Harry was experiencing great pain when possessed by Voldemort, and rather than fear his own death, Harry's heart filled with love at the prospect of seeing Sirius again and Voldemort was forced to flee once more. In HBP, Harry suspected Malfoy of being a death eater and knew he was up to something. The attacks on Katie and Ron reinforced this idea, but Harry didn't fear for his own life, even discounting the thought when pointed out by others that HE was the biggest target. His infatuation with Malfoy wasn't simply because it was Malfoy, it was out of Harry's concern for others.

On the other hand, Harry's actions in GoF aided in the events that led to Cedric's death. Again in OotP, Harry's noble instinct to save his godfather, actually resulted in Sirius's death. The danger in this to Harry is not only that he must be careful not to act rashly and potentially risk the lives of others, but in that his own guilt and pain over their loss, he must not allow himself to become vulnerable to the emotional and magical toll this could potentially have on him.

In book 7, Harry is certainly going to be faced with situations in which his instinct to save others is going to come into play. His deep love of others will ultimately be the downfall of Voldemort; directly through actions of his own, and indirectly in that he is going to see how his past actions have earned him the respect, love and loyalty of others that will eventually be of great assistance to him.

What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Harry's "emotional honesty" (JKR) is simply both Harry's greatest strength and weakness. His enormous ability to love others, even above his own life is what it has taken for him to survive thus far and it will be that willing sacrifice that will allow him to "hold on" long enough to defeat Voldemort. (That doesn't mean he WILL actually die, though!) However, with this emotional honesty comes a great risk of letting his anger get the better of him in a situation where it does not serve best serve him. Professor Snape tries to (in his snide way) that mental (non-emotional) focus is the key to both Occlumency and later, in non-verbal spells in defense. Harry is rubbish at these things because he's always hacked off at Snape - he can't focus through his anger. Yet, when he does manage the focus he needs, his magic is HUGE. For Harry, it is more of a focus of what he is feeling, rather than a detachment from the feelings. Harry is going to simply have to learn self control in order to defeat Voldemort. Given that this is probably the hardest task for any 17 year old boy, coupled with Harry's own naturally emotional personality, this is going to be no small feat.

Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

My above observations, I think, give clear examples of Harry's pure heart. In addition, we see him (on more than one occasion) attempt to perform an unforgivable curse. As Bellatrix informs him that he has to "mean it" - the obvious implication is that, as angry as he was, Harry didn't truly want to cause pain and could therefore, not adequately apply the curse. With repect to how this contrasts with the death eaters, the effect is somewhat external to Harry himself. It is Harry's actions out of his pureness of heart that have, and will continue to earn him the love, respect and loyalty of others; others that will be key in the opposition to and war against Voldemort. The loyalty of the death eaters to Voldemort is based on something else entirely. I see Voldemort's followers as falling into two classes; those seeking power and those seeking protection. In the event that the side against Voldemort begins to show it's true power and potential to win, the loyalty of Voldemort's followers will begin to fail. As Voldemort rules by fear, those who find themselves in a situation in which they can no longer face the consequences of aligning themselves with him will turn to Harry's side for protection. Harry's unwillingness (or inability) to maim, torture and kill will earn him further respect among those who have left Voldemort's service. Those that are seeking power will begin to distance themselves from Voldemort, seeking to be in good favor with the "winning side" as Voldemort's power base begins to crumble.

Exactly as I mentioned above - Harry's pureness of heart is what makes him unwilling or unable to purposely cause pain, injury and death. However, the fact that his emotions run quite high and enable him to perform some incredibly powerful magic leave the door open to his potentially doing something he deeply regrets and which would be seriously detrimental to his cause. His attempts at the cruciatus curse illustrate that danger. Right now, he is as angry with Snape as he has ever been with anyone. If any person or situation is going to test Harry's ability to maintain his pureness of heart, it will be in this interaction with Snape.

Gee, so one wants to talk about Harry?! :lol: OK, I'll dive in...with answers to some of Jessica's interesting questions.

EDIT: There were no responses to the thread when I STARTED typing...:)

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
I'd say, in PS/SS when he decides he needs to stop Snape (as he then believes) from stealing the Stone. He's not saving a particular person there, but he feels personally responsible to stop what he sees as a disaster in the making. It is definitely a positivie characteristic, it is what drives him to take heroic actions, but he needs to learn to temper this impulse with some common sense. I think his experience in OotP has gone a long way in that direction.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
His greatest strengths are his ability to inspire loyalty in others, his sense of responsibility ('saving people thing'), and his ability to (sometimes) empathize with people he does not like.

I think his greatest weakness is a dark streak in his personality that has gradually emerged in GoF, OotP, and HBP in the form of a willingness to use Dark Magic (specifically, unforgivable curses) against 'bad' people. In GoF this is first expressed as a fantasy about Crucioing Snape, who is Harry's most hated teacher. In OotP this develops further as Harry actually attempts this same curse against Bellatrix Lestrange. It is further showcased in HBP in Harry's attempts to use both Crucio and the Dark spell Sectumsempra against Snape. (I have no issue with Harry's initial use of the spell against Draco; he neither knew it was Dark, nor what extreme effects it would have).

It is true that in both OotP and HBP Harry was quite understandably in an extreme state of emotional disturbance when these incidents occured. However, it is my opinion, and I believe it is shared by Rowling, that certain things are simply not done by good people, and torture is one of them. Harry needs to learn to act in a way that reflects his essential goodness of heart even in the most trying circumstances, because in the end he will have to face Voldemort, a far greater evil than either Bella or Snape. I do not doubt Voldemort will find some way to cause Harry extreme emotional distress. Harry will not beat Voldemort at Dark Magic, that is definitely NOT the power the Dark Lord knows not (he seems, rather, the acknowledged expert in the field...:D)

I think his greatest weakness is a dark streak in his personality that has gradually emerged in GoF, OotP, and HBP in the form of a willingness to use Dark Magic (specifically, unforgivable curses) against 'bad' people. In GoF this is first expressed as a fantasy about Crucioing Snape, who is Harry's most hated teacher. In OotP this develops further as Harry actually attempts this same curse against Bellatrix Lestrange. It is further showcased in HBP in Harry's attempts to use both Crucio and the Dark spell Sectumsempra against Snape. (I have no issue with Harry's initial use of the spell against Draco; he neither knew it was Dark, nor what extreme effects it would have).

It is true that in both OotP and HBP Harry was quite understandably in an extreme state of emotional disturbance when these incidents occured. However, it is my opinion, and I believe it is shared by Rowling, that certain things are simply not done by good people, and torture is one of them. Harry needs to learn to act in a way that reflects his essential goodness of heart even in the most trying circumstances, because in the end he will have to face Voldemort, a far greater evil than either Bella or Snape. I do not doubt Voldemort will find some way to cause Harry extreme emotional distress. Harry will not beat Voldemort at Dark Magic, that is definitely NOT the power the Dark Lord knows not (he seems, rather, the acknowledged expert in the field..


Interesting points :tu:

I agree that he needs to overcome his desire for revenge. I don't dislike that he has it. He's human and he needs to be flawed. He needs to let his emotions get the better of him sometimes or he wouldn't be a "real" hero for the books.

I think Rowling is setting him up to overcome these flaws which is about as heroic as you can get. For him to have these feelings of hatred and desire for revenge and then to overcome them and focus on the goal at hand I think will be the true test of his power to love.

How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
If his parents had lived, I don't think it's too far off to say that Voldemort would probably be gone, Sirius would never have gone to Azkaban, and Dumbledore would probably not have died. All the struggles we go through change us; the same thing can be said for Harry. If his parents hadn't died, and if he'd never had to live with the Dursleys, he wouldn't have his "toughness", his ability to cope with everything that's come at him so far. Everything that happened to him shaped him into the person he is now. He's a survivor but, as in the case of, say, Remus Lupin, he hasn't come out exactly the same. His value for life, for instance, may not be so strong if he hadn't lost so many who were close to him.

When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
Hehe, "saving people thing." Well, his tendency toward heroics could be traced all the way back to SS/PS, but the real "saving people" thing probably started in CoS, when he went down into the Chamber to rescue Ginny, whom he didn't even know that well then. This can be both a blessing and a curse; it got Sirius killed, but it also saved the lives of Ginny, Arthur, the Weasleys in general... I don't know if that will be helpful or not in Book 7, because people are going to die, and every person close to him who dies will pile on the guilt that he could have done something to save them, even when he really couldn't. We'll just have to see...

Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
If not for his curiosity, Harry would never have found out about Nicholas Flamel, or the Chamber of Secrets and Aragog, or taken his illegal trips into the Pensieve that told him so much in books 4 & 5... It it wasn't for his curiosity, there'd be no story! Hopefully, he still has it, though he's bound to be more cautious by now, after all the consequences it's brought upon him.

What do you think are Harry's greatest strengths? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
He's gotta get over his revenge thing! He's way too hooked on the idea of revenge, on Bella for killing Sirius ("SHE KILLED SIRIUS! I'LL KILL HER!"), on Voldy for killing his parents, and now probably on Snape for killing Dumbledore. He has to get over the idea of revenge, or he won't be able to get through everything he's going to face in Book 7; his judgment may be clouded by his thirst for revenge on the people who have hurt him. Now that's over: on to his strengths! He's exceedingly loyal (sometimes too much so), he's brave and determined, even in the face of great danger, and, of course, his friends. I think his friends are going to prove his greatest strengths in the battle ahead. And boy, will he ever need them!

How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
Hey, that's what I said! :p He's more noble now, trying to keep his loved ones out of harm's way (Ron, Hermione, Ginny, in HBP). And his losses (like his parents and Sirius) have given him a drive to find a way to defeat Voldemort. The fact that he can still love, even after all that, says something too about his strong character.

Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what separates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
Well, we've definitely seen his inability to use an Unforgivable Curse (eg. Bellatrix Lestrange), and he can't make himself kill anybody. I highly doubt he would have used Sectumsempra even on Malfoy had he known what it could do. As I said before, I think this value of human life is one of his greatest examples of a "pure heart"; and that because of the losses he's gone through, he can't take someone else away, no matter how evil they are. Hopefully, he'll be able to keep this standard even through his hunt for the Horcruxes, although then it could prove difficult getting rid of Voldemort...

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now?
I think he's much more private and introverted because of the Dursley's. I think because he suffered so much under the Dursley's that he's far less likely to cause suffering for other people, which makes him very compassionate.

Would he be the same person if his parents had lived?
He would still be just as compassionate iff Lily were raising him, because she would've taught him that. I tink he'd be more outgoing though and more extroverted.

If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family?
Well, it depends on what that wizarding family was like. What if is was like Snapes family? What if it was like the Weasley's family?

If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
I think he'd be no different than he is now if he had been sent to an orhpanage.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing?
My recollection is that he first saves someone in CoS. He fought the basilisk to save Ginny's life, and then he found a creative way to improve Dobby's life.

Is this a strength or a flaw?
In the long run it will be a strength. In OotP, it was a flaw though, because he ultimately had a hand in Sirius's death because of he wanted to save him. He didn't think it through.

Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
It will help him, because now that he's has learned he needs to think before he acts, he'll be far more likely to save people without serious negative consequences.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books?
One learns by asking questions, and he learns a great deal about people and consequences of one's actions.

Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
I never got the impression that he lost his curiousity. His curirosity is what is going to help him piece together the clues to find the horcruxes.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs?
This has to be his compassion and love for his friends. He's suffered so much, and I think that makes his feeling go a whole lot deeper than the average person, and that propels him to make deep and binding attachments to his friends.

What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
He has to think before he acts, esepcially when he goes up against Voldemort. Hen eeds to use his brains and combine his thoughts with his emotions to find the correct path.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
Like I said previously, I think his losses make him feel on a much deeper level than the average person. He can empathize with other people, and connect with those who've suffered as well, like Neville. He can identify with those wh've suffered at the hands of Voldemort.

Ahh Harry. He's the hero of the story, and there is so much about him that I find it hard to decide where to start :lol:

Harry is a normal boy with special powers. His magical abilities are IMO normal to above average. What makes him special is not the Quidditch or the DADA talent, it lies more in his personality.

I think Rowling is setting him up to overcome these flaws which is about as heroic as you can get. For him to have these feelings of hatred and desire for revenge and then to overcome them and focus on the goal at hand I think will be the true test of his power to love.I agree. He is human, and he has seen enough in his life to feel hatred and desire for revenge. Nontheless JKR makes clear in the whole books that Harrys strength is precisly in his ability to overcome this. Even if his temper might lead him to questionable actions (such as attempting to use the unforgivables), he has also shown that his anger never controls fully his decisions and emotions.
When he knows about the true traitor and responsable of his parents death, having the opportunity to have him killed, he saves his life.
When he sees glimpses of Voldemorts past he feels sorry for him, even if Voldemort is the person who killed his parents and made him pass through the worst moment of his life, even so, he feels pity for child Tom.

Draco has been Harrys nemesis through all the books, their relation is close to hatred. Even so he feels sorry for him.

Dudley has bullied Harry through his whole childhood. Harry saves his life without doubting it one moment.

This is what makes Harry special. That he stayed always clearly on the good side, that he is loyal to his convictions and never vindictive.
2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
It's part of his special power. It will help him, save him maybe.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?Mainly what I said above, and also what Dumbledore says. The mirror of Erised is a very good example. How many 11 year old would see something totally unselfish in the mirror?

What can we say about our hero? We've watched him grow from an orphaned infant to a young man. We've seen him at his best and his worst, through triumph to failure, from love to loss.

*sniffle* Our little boy is all grown up! *weeps*


2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?


Well, we've obviously seen it in his trying to rescue Sirius from the DoM and in saving Ginny from the basilisk. When he saved Ginny, it ended in triumph, and with Sirius, it ended in tears.
However, I must say that it is definitely a strength, even if it comes at a cost. Just like his ability to love. If he had never loved, he'd never be sad when he lost people...but he'd also be like Voldemort.
In book 7, I think it will be a mix of help and hurt. People will die, and probably in defending Harry. But Voldemort will also be gone.
...So I have no definite answer. :lol:


3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?


Well, Harry's curiosity is definitely good because it helps him learn more about the world around him, and the more he knows, the more we know. However, sometimes it doesn't really help him, like when he tries to find out what's behind the Mystery Door, and when he sees Snape's pensieve lying out.
Harry's curiosity will return. Definitely. I have faith that he'll do his job.


4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?


I'm going to go with Dumbledore and say that Harry's greatest strength is his totally awesome heart. :p
As for flaws he must overcome...
Well, the big thing he must do is grow from The Boy Who Lived to The Man Who Loved.
That probably means working through his grief and do what he must. Another thing is to jettison whatever feelings of hatred he has. Anything from pity to dislike is fine to feel. But not hate. But I can't see a Harry with hatred defeating Voldemort. Hatred is the opposite of love.

My opening statement:

I've never really figured out how and why I feel about Harry, the way I do. I surely don't hate him but I don't know why he never made my 'favorite characters' list. Anyways, we've all seen Harry grow and evolve into a much stronger person as the series proceeded. What I most like about Harry is his ability to love, care for others. Everyone has that power but Harry is so special because he isn't irrational or unfair - he felt sorry for Draco and Snape whom he considered his 'most-hated' enemies. Harry also managed to see the good in Trelawny when she was in probation. Many people, or teenagers for a specific classification, don't possess that ability.

But everyone has their own flaws, we can't deny that. Like every teenager, we've seen Harry feeling selfish, self-centered, irresponsible, and what not. Overall, Harry is a great character and we should really appreciate him, considering how much he has gone through in the whole series. *points at signature* :lol:

How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

I definitely think Harry would have been a totally different person if he weren't with the Dursleys. It just added so much torture, anger, and pain in his first eleven years that without all those memories, he wouldn't be 'Harry'. It's a part of his personality now. The Dursleys never loved him and I think that's where Harry's strong ability to love others comes from. If he were spoiled and pampered as a child, like Dudley was, then he'd probably turn out to be a bully or an arrogant person.

Then again, this depends on how one views the situation. So I only speak for myself. :)

When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

Actually, I think it all started in the Zoo when Harry rescued the Boa Constrictor. Harry pitied the snake, felt for it and it totally reflected his personality. This is a strength and a weakness. I can prove it with two simple examples:

Strength: Harry risked his life to rescue Ginny. It shows how much he cares for others even if it meant to face grave dangers.

Weakness: Harry fell in Voldemort's trap in OotP and thought Sirius was being tortured. It turned out to be wrong, didn't it? So I think it may go against him in the last book but at the same time, it is a good thing. It is so complicated, I can only say it depends on the situation and circumstances.

What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

I answered this in my opening statement, but I better add the "saving people" thing too. That is, (as I said in the above answer) both his weakness and strength.

Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Others pointed out great examples! The main ones, IMO are:

PS/SS - Harry got the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone when he looked in the Mirror of Erised because he didn't desire to use it in a wrong way. He just wanted to prevent it to fall in the wrong hands which reflects his pure heart.
CoS - Harry saved Ginny when he hardly knew her! He risked his life for her.
PoA - Harry let Pettigrew live. How obvious can this be?
GoF - Harry let Cedric touch the Triwizard cup along with him. It just shows how fair Harry is. There are other incidents but this one is just so striking :tu:
OotP - He couldn't perform the Unforgivable Curse in front of Bellatrix. As someone pointed out, Harry didn't have enough hate in him to mean it. Also, when he saw Snape's worst memory, Harry showed his 'Everything-should-be-fair' power once again, and genuinely felt bad for Snape. Yes, later he changed his mind but it is the first thought that counts.
HBP - One word: Draco. Harry took pity for Draco and understood his circumstances. Very touching moment :tu:


Harry definitely has a pure heart and we see loads of examples throughout the book!

I support Harry Potter. You should too!

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
I don't think he'd be the defeatist that he is now. When it comes to certain things that is. He's no defeatist when fighting evil, but he is about his own abilities. Such as thinking he'd fail his classes and that he might as well take them with a friend like Ron. His parents would surely foster more faith in his own smarts. Not that kids always listen, but growing up with the Dursleys couldn't have helped.
I don't think he'd be different in an orphange. The Dursleys were bad enough. He may have even had friends there. Riddle didn't predispose himself to making friends from what we saw in HBP. Harry wouldn't have bullied little kids as we know he doesn't condone that (his remarks to Dudley about Mark Evans).

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
We at least see it as early as CoS when he saves Ginny. I think it's a strength so long as he doesn't think it's always on his own shoulders (as he did in GOF during the triward).

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
But he still does keep to their "Don't ask questions" rule when it comes to some things. He hasn't asked all that he could about his parents even when with Sirius who was best placed to inform him (and Lupin too. With Dumbledore he gets cut off a lot so that can be excused).

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
I think his greatest stregnth is that he doesn't take it for granted that he's going to defeat Voldemort. That will keep him on his toes. I don't know what he'll have to overcome personally. A revenge lust perhaps?

I think his greatest stregnth is that he doesn't take it for granted that he's going to defeat Voldemort. That will keep him on his toes. I don't know what he'll have to overcome personally. A revenge lust perhaps?

I think that he feels a certain revenge lust for his parents, but that is naturaly and expected. But I think that may help him and drive him further in his mission rather than be a hinderance and perhaps it will be the love he has for him parents and his friends that will ultimately defeat Voldemort.

I think one's strengths can be weaknesses and I think we've been seeing that in Harry quite a bit.
The whole "saving people", I would think, come out of how he was treated by the Dursleys. He was the underdog...no one ever helped him out until Hagrid came along. I think it bred in young Harry the feeling that he won't ignore someone in trouble.
OK fine...however...when we get to OoTP we see Harry's "saving people" backfire badly. Yeh in the end the day is saved but only because help arrived. Harry forgot than in order to "save others" one has to take care of one's self too. And keep a clear head. Others have pointed out that Harry
does let his feelings get the better of him (those revenge thoughts) I concur.
At this point in time you have to think if both LV and Snape were standing side by side and Harry had only one clear shot....he go after Snape first...
who is not Harry's ultimate foe .

I like Harry very much. I tend not to gravitate toward the main protagonist of any book, though, as secondary characters are usually much more colorful and interesting. Sticking by the main character in a book is like riding the sight-seeing train through Disneyland, instead of the rollercoaster: you get to see everything clearly and from the best possible vantage point, but you miss the bizarre and mind-bending points of view, the exciting new perspectives, and the mental exerise of trying to figure out exactly what you're looking at from the backside. As Jessica said, we take Harry for granted because he's always there. If the book were about Ron, Harry would be (in my opinion) a great deal more fun--the Huckleberry Finn, the man of action, the one who did really wild, exciting things while Ron tagged along in wonder.


1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived?

Harry's upbringing by the Dursleys has formed his character into the (sometimes infuriating) character he is now. He learned to disregard the rules, living where the rules were unfair. He learned to disrespect authority, living under authority that was not respectable. He learned not to ask questions, because they weren't answered, and we certainly wish he would be BURSTING with questions on our behalf.

On the other hand, he learned to take care of himself, and to stand up for himself. Harry is a very strong character, and has a self-esteem you could break rocks on. It seems to have ended up as a matter of 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.'


2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

Maybe when the snake thanked him for setting it free in Book 1. :lol: Harry's tendency to try to get other people out of trouble has been a running theme of the book. Book 1 includes his attempts to help Hagrid out of trouble with Norbert, and to go get Hermione out of the bathroom during the troll drill. Harry has nearly always shown a sense of responsibility for the welfare of others.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

His greatest strengths are his determination, his loyalty, and his ability to care for people.

His worst weaknesses--well, one is a tendency to refuse to consider he may be wrong about anything, and that will probably be his biggest hurdle. Strength of conviction is admirable to a point, and beyond that it becomes stubborn arrogance. There have been many times when everything would have gone better if he was only willing to take Dumbledore's word, for example.

He was developing a bad tendency toward waiting for other people to come up with all the answers and do the legwork for him before he'd make an effort, but I think HBP snapped him out of that lazy mindset. I don't really blame him for it--it's normal child behavior. Developing a work ethic often takes well into your twenties. But it's not a part of normal childhood he can afford.


6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart?
Wanting to save the stone from Voldemort instead of wanting it himself...wishing for his parents back instead of something selfish...Harry is extremely generous, and it is one of the most charrming things about him.

Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

I think Harry has lost a lot of innocence and will probably lose more, especially as rumors say one of his friends is going to die. I think it will be hard for Harry to not feel responsible. There must be something left for him at the end of the books. It would be tragic if the world is saved, but leaves him shattered. I don't want to see him like Frodo at the end, still weighted down by all the losses and deaths. But knowing Harry, it's hard to see any other way it can end. Maybe it would be kinder to him if JKR finished him off, after all...

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family?

I think it is like Dumbledore said, his time with the Dursleys has allowed Harry the ability to be normal; the Dursleys never spoiled him or treated him like the celelbrity that he is in the Wizarding World. If his parents had lived, I think he would have been quite different. He wouldn't be the hero, he wouldn't be famous, he really would just be a normal kid if he had been raised by his parents. Without having experienced the loss that hs has, it's possible that he wouldn't even have the whole saving people complex we've come to expect from him.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

While the philosophers stone wasn't a person, there was no reason for Harry to feel the need to save it. So I think that we were introduced to the "saving people" thing straight away. I don't necessarily think it a strength or a flaw, it's just a part of who he is. Voldemort has already exposed this weakness of Harry's once though, luring him to the Ministry where he thought he would be saving Sirius. I don't think Voldemort would be able to get away with the same trick twice though.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

I don't think he's lost it. Harry goes through periods of shocked mourning at the ends of "Goblet of Fire" "Order of the Phoenix" and "Half-Blood Prince" with each one being more emotional. However, Harry is pretty good accepting the loses he has experienced and moving on. He didn't think Sirius would want him to harp on too much and he knows that Dumbledore wanted him to destroy those Horcruxes, not mourn his death. I think that once Harry is able to accept and deal with the events at the end of HBP his curiosity will come back for the Horcrux hunt.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

I think that he is really going to have to overcome his tendencies towards revenge. In both his quest to avenge the death or Sirius and Dumbledore, Harry has behaved quite recklessly. He left his friends and the Order members in order to persue Bellatrix on his own, coming upon Voldemort in the process. His chase after Snape was equally reckless of him. Both Bellatrix and Snape are fully qualified wizards who most likely know some pretty advanced Dark Magic, chasing them alone probably wasn't the best of ideas. Also, his use of unforgiveable curses in these situations is well, unforgiveable. Harry is better than that.


6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Harry's pure heart first showed itself in the Mirror of Erised scene at the end of "Philosphers/Sorcerers Stone" when he proved that all he wanted was to keep the stone safe from the hands of Voldemort. I think his pure heart really comes through to some extent in the whole saving people thing; he doesn't hesitate to risk his own safety in order to help someone else. I think he will definately maintain it in the horcrux hunt and everything. They importance Dumbledore seemed to place on Harry's pure heart makes me believe that it will be key in him finally being able to defeat Voldemort for good.

When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

I think that even though the books are largely about choice, it also does have some foundation in your heritage. Much like how Harry had good parents (or what seems to be good parents) who would lay down their lives to save people, Harry has that same penchant for bravery like his parents. It is amazing despite all the influences of the Dursleys that would have otherwise made a normal child in reality grow up to be probably a sociopath or a fairly abusive vindictive person.

But it goes to show that despite his influences it was still his choice to save people rather than himself. But what I find most interesting is how much GoF was a turning point for the series for his save the world facination. What's very interesting is that in the first 3 books had him save the day and end well. But GoF onwards, his save the day methods were manipulated so well that it resulted in deaths of people close to him. I just find it very interesting that stuff like that happens to Harry how the duality of the novels happens that way.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

I think another very interesting aspect of Harry is that he used the Unforgivable curses or attempted to use them on more than one occasion. He even used a very dark magic of Sectumsempra to attack a foe. Granted the latter he was unaware of the final result, but the former...it was very clear he wanted to use them regardless of his at them emtional state.

This isn't to say that these are weaknesses, it's natural. But it really brings about something that is to be resolved later. In fact it really echoes certain Anakin Skywalker and/or Luke Skywalker Jedi choices of whether or not to choose an action that will definately lead him to the darker side of humanity. I'm just wondering after dealing with Dumbledore's death so...admirably in HBP whether or not JKR will really explore whether or not he truly has accepted it or whether or not his passion to find the horcruxes would just interefere with his healing process. Heck the Death of Dumbledore might even interefere with his search for the horcruxes if he hasn't totally resolved it all. It's just that to me, him dealing with Sirius' and Cedric's death seemed a bit too cut and dry really. Then again JKR was more about the now rather than the past.

This isn't to say that these are weaknesses, it's natural. But it really brings about something that is to be resolved later. In fact it really echoes certain Anakin Skywalker and/or Luke Skywalker Jedi choices of whether or not to choose an action that will definately lead him to the darker side of humanity. I'm just wondering after dealing with Dumbledore's death so...admirably in HBP whether or not JKR will really explore whether or not he truly has accepted it

Despite Harry's calm and resolute demeanor in the final chapter, I do think Rowling plans to deal with this issue of Harry's 'darker side'. In Book 6 this was explored mostly through Harry's reaction to Snape's killing of Dumbledore. And Rowling makes a point of having Harry remember Snape, and consider that he might run into him next year, very close to the end of the book.

My Personal Statement About Harry Potter

I'm not sure I can put into a short paragraph all the good things about the character of Harry Potter. He is our "vision" into the Wizarding World, because we experience it through his senses, and through his eyes and feelings. He reminds me of the boy-heroes from myths, such as Perseus and Hercules, but he also reminds me of characters like Tom Sawyer and Charlie Bucket from Roald Dahl's Willie Wonka. He's not a perfect boy, and thank goodness, because he would be so boring otherwise. In fact, Dumbledore implies many times that Harry being "normal" is what is saving him from Voldemort. Harry's loving nature is his great strength, reminiscent of Shakespeare who wrote, "what stronger breastplate than a heart untainted." I love Harry's friendships with Luna, Neville, Hermione, and Ron, and also Cedric, whose death haunts him. Harry does have a darker side, and he's fallen into the trap of shooting unforgiveables at people every time he feels vengeful - at Bellatrix, for instance, and Snape at the end of HBP, though Snape stops him. His relationship with Snape fascinates me, and I think JKR means for it to be fascinating, as she has said that Harry hates Snape now nearly as much as Voldemort, and it is "personal." I think we will see a big confrontation between them in Book 7, and it will be highly emotional and dramatic. If Harry is to defeat Voldemort with his "untainted heart" and "pure soul," I don't think Harry can become a vicious killer, though, and use revenge as a tool to defeat Voldemort. Love and revenge don't mix - there has got to be another way to "vanquish" the Dark Lord.

If Harry is to defeat Voldemort with his "untainted heart" and "pure soul," I don't think Harry can become a vicious killer, though, and use revenge as a tool to defeat Voldemort. Love and revenge don't mix - there has got to be another way to "vanquish" the Dark Lord.
I agree. I am confident that Harry is not going to kill anybody. He will get out of this confrontation with his soul in one piece.
Harry will not shoot an AK at Voldemort, because Voldemort is better at that than Harry. He will have to play on his strenght, and find an alternative way.
And first of all he will have to realise that love is the right way, and how to manage this.
I am sure that his friendship with Ron and Hermione and his relation to Ginny will play a role there :)

My Character Analysis of Harry Potter: Opening Statement: Deep down, he is everyone's first top favorite character, in my opinion. I mean, he IS the books. The other people are just IN the books. You know? But yeah, what I]can[/I] you say about him? He's a kid living a life most adults never will live. There is death, torture, betrayal, and adventure at every turn in his life.
Favorite Quotes: None really, he isn't that type of character.
Favorite Moments: His escape through his mother's love when he was just a child. That and his triumphs in Qudditch and other adventures he has had. Every single adventure is one of my favorites.
Im coming back to do the questions.

It's hard to think of quotes from Harry because he is almost a straight man to the funny things Ron says and the more logical things that Hermione says.

But the first thing I remember liking that Harry said, was in Book One, Chapter 13, when he gives Neville a chocolate frog and tells him: "You're worth twelve of Malfoy." Then later at the Quidditch Match, Neville says that to Malfoy as though it gives him courage.

How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

I think that Harry's years with the Dursleys have made him what he is today. I don't think that he has been influenced by them, more that he has seen what they do and doesn't want to follow their example.

I think he would certainly have been a different person had his parents lived. However I think that speculating on that is too difficult as we know so little about the sort of parents that James and Lily were - they never had the chance to watch their son grow up.

I think that he might also have been vastly different had he been placed with another wizarding family. Even if he had survived without the protection that Petunia's blood connection to Lily offered, he would have grown up in the limelight which would have had some sort of an effect on him. Even if the people who raised him treated him normally and like any other son, he would have still been exposed to the wizarding world at a much younger age.

Had he been placed in an orphanage, again there would have been the lack of blood protection and the possibility of his not surviving because of it. I don't think that he would have turned out like Tom Riddle though, I think that orphanages during Tom's childhood were vastly different to what they are during Harry's. I also think that Tom may even have been an example of the bad blood that Aunt Marge referred to. There was clearly some degree of insanity in his family already after all.

When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

I think his first evidence of saving people appears back in PS. He comes to the defence of Ron when he is being belittled by Draco and when he gets the remembrall back for Neville. Even though they are little things I think that the verbal rescues of his friends are the first signs of his saving people or at least standing up for people.

Actually saving people is of course later in PS when he goes on alone to finish their "mission" and stop the Philosopher's Stone being stolen.

I think that Voldemort may see this as a flaw and try to use it against him but that it will be a strength in the end because those that he has saved in the past will stand with him, probably dealing with the Death Eaters whilst he faces off Voldemort.

We have already seen that the only two members of the DA to answer the call to the battle in HBP were the ones he had stood up for on the train to school that year. I think that this may be shown on a larger scale later.

Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

I don't think that his curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. I think that it might even have been their "don't ask questions" attitude that made him even more curious. Especially after he had an inkling of what they were hiding from him. Like many a child told not to do something, Harry rebels and does the exact opposite.

I am unsure how his curiosity has helped him through the books other than to give him a better understanding of things around him and to lead him on his adventures.

I don't think that he has lost it at all and his curiosity will probably be something that he will need in order to find the horcruxes.

What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

I think Harry's strengths are

- his ability to love
- his friends
- his loyalty to those he loves
- his bravery
- his intelligence and ingenuity

I think that the weaknesses he will have to overcome are

- his tendency not to think things through before acting
- his tendency to hold grudges; I think he will have to learn forgiveness

I also think he will have to accept that he can't do everything alone and accept the help of the older members of the Order, and not just his friends. I think he will need to turn to them as much as he does Ron and Hermione if he is to succeed in defeating Voldemort. However I think that the adults in question will have to treat Harry as an adult as well so this "weakness" is in fact more a meeting in the middle sort of thing.


Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

I think that the best examples of his pure heart are the images of what he sees in the Mirror of Erised.

First he sees his parents with him, not riches or glory or anything like that. Just simply his family.

Later on of course he sees himself getting the stone and proves his unselfish heart again simply by getting the stone.

I think that he will have to maintain his pure heart in order to defeat Voldemort but that his anger and hatred will make it harder for him to do so. I think that only when he has learned forgiveness and moved on past his anger and hatred will his heart be pure enough once again to defeat Voldemort.

Harrry Potter, the hero of the books. In disecting Harry's character in my opinion it is more important to discuss what he isn't rather then what he is. He is not a super hero. Book 7 is not going to open with Harry emerging from privet dive with a big H on his chest yelling "Here I come to save the day, it's mighty Harry on the way!" Sadly, even Harry has forgotten everything he told the members of the DA at the organizational meeting in the Hogshead Inn. At the time of that meeting Harry had a clear understanding of his limitations and voiced them to the other students. Now after being told of the prophecy and Dumbledore's private lessons and witnessing Dumbledore's death, Harry has decided that Dumbledore has assigned to him the sole mission of finding and destroying the horcruxes and then seeking out and killing Voldemort. If his path should cross with Snape along the way then so much the better, he will just take care of Snape also.

Harry is not qualified to do any of these things. His mission would be nothing but a suicide mission.

So how does this viewpoint relate to how I analysis Harry's character. Harry is a young man whose early life has been affected by fate rather then his own actions. Isn't this true of everyone? Up to the point of about 10 or 11 years old we have no control of our life. Fate controls everything. JKR has done a wonderful job of showing this in Harry. AAt some point, our choices start determining what we will become and this is also true with Harry. He always chose the right path and the right friends. Harry was going in the right direction from book 1 through book 4, except he showed less respect for his elders and rules then I would have liked. This flaw is, however, understandable since the Dursleys didn't give him anything to respect. Up until being told of the prophecy, Harry's attitude was acceptable to me as a person who has a good, acceptable, viewpoint of his role in life. When Dumbledore told Harry of the prophecy, Dumbledore changed everything. Eventhough Dumbledore told Harry that all prophecys don't have to come true, Harry himself even thinks he is "The chosen One." This view of a person's own role in life can result in major changes in that person's choices choices and attitudes. We saw the changes on how Harry talked to adults in power by comparing Harry's conversations with Fudge in POA and how he talked to Scrimgeour in HBP. Harry is now full of self importance and for this reason we the readers have accepted that Dumbledore has assigned to Harry the solo job of saving the world. If Harry's job is to save the world, then JKR will have to find a way for Harry to do so and not turn him into a self centered egotist that nobody likes. If something else is brewing and Dumbledore never planned on Harry saving the world then Harry is going to have to accept that he has been used by Dumbledore to defeat Voldemort. Adults who are in on Dumbledore's plan may not be too kind to Harry when the truth is revealed. Some might even use the opportunity to laugh at him for even thinking that he had the ability to defeat Voldemort and Snape and to destroy the horcruxes. This will be a defining moment in how Harry thinks of himself.

I am so looking forward to book 7 and how JKR develops Harry's character. Either the fanasty hero or the bait for a trap storyline gives JKR some important areas to develop in Harry's character. Of course the easiest thing for JKR to do to cancel this job is to kill Harry in book 7. Please don't do this JKR!!!!!

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

It is an astonishment to me and many others too that he has remained so...normal. I mean, kids who are abused, ignored, mistreated, beaten, treated less than human, etc. don't tend to turn out to be the type of person Harry is. He has his outburts, but not at all often or frequent. He has very strong emotions and a strong ability to love, and maybe it is that very essence inside him that allows him to be who he is and not have gone mad. Honestly, I think anyone else would not have been able to make it with the Dursleys under those conditions. Its inhumane.

No, he would definetely not be the same person. Hermione and Ron would still be his friends, and undoubtedly he would have other friends, because they wouldn't need to take into account how possibly unstable, violent, and corrupt he might be. Ron and Hermione never took that into consideration, hence why their bond is so strong. Skillwise, he would be just as good, I would think, but he might not be as comitted to getting stronger as he is lately because he would have no reason. Neville's misfortunes would touch him just the same, and had Neville founded the D.A. Harry would be sure to be apart of it and I am sure he would do many things similar than to how we know the boy as.

Dumbledore is very wise, and you don't need me to tell you that, of course. If they had done what McGonagall mentioned int he first chapter of Book 1 and put Harry into another wizarding family, I think something close to what Dumbledore said would happen. Harry would grow up famous and believe he was better than everyone else, perhaps. It just wouldn't be right and Harry's personality would've been altered. Maybe a little, maybe a lot, maybe completely. It is a good thing, though hard it is to say, that he turned out "alright" with the Dursleys...then again, another wizarding family might just have the same opposite and nothing would happen (for the reasons I said above).

An orphanage can't be as bad as the Dursleys, if not better, so I think for the most part that Harry would remain the same as we know him as. Nothing major, just the understanding that that is one more similarity between himself and his arch enemy Voldemort.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

The first time we see it, though probably not really on purpose, was the freeing of the Boa Constrictor at the Muggle Zoo. Harry obviously felt sorry for the beast being locked up and taunted by people like the Dursleys. Harry felt that bond and could strongly relate. So he freed the snake, without knowing he actually would be able to. A weakness? I see nothing slowing him down and it isn't putting anyone in real danger, as far as the people. But Harry's tendancy to save people is something he feels is his duty. It is the type of person he is and he can't change it, but it can be used to a disadvantage. It can be a weakness for Harry, especially when people like Voldemort understand this flaw.

The use of the Harry the Hero trap has been used already and I hope Jo won't use it again, but she warned us through Harry that something woul or might happen to Ginny if Harry allowed them to be together. Voldemrot would find out and, like Sirius, use it to lure or trap Harry. it might be used, I won't be shocked if the method is used, again.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

Curiosity killed the cat, eh? Well, I hope Harry will live lol. Anyways, to the question: One of the major themes, right next to Love and Friendship, is that of Knowledge and Power. Knowledge is Power. You ask questions, you get them correctly answered, you are that much more knowledgeable, everyone knows that. Curiosity is not a bad thing, but it should be controlled. Harry has a weak control over his curiosity, hence all the adventures he has been thrown into, whether at his own fault or otherwise.

It will never leave him.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strengths? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Harry's greatest strength is his love and many would agree. Through love, he has gained many friendships. That being said, look at how many times his friends have come trhough for him when he needed them the most. Harry has alliances he doesn't even know he has. That is another aspect of Power Harry possesses.

As far as weaknesses, and discluding the weakness I stated earlier, I just don't think Harry is strong or willing enough to murder, to end life. That just isn't him. He might not even be able to do it to Voldemort even if he is at Harry's mercy. Harry will think twice and it might come back to get him in the end. Plus, he just doesn't have a vast amount of magical ability. He has the skill, just not the magical knowledge. That is why he needs to finish school and definetely get extra help from experienced magic users.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

Each loss gives him that much more of a need to defeat Voldemort and his growing empire of minions and supporters. Each one gives him more purpose, more responsibility. With power comes great reponsibility and each time this happens, he is given more responsibility, more power. That is how I see it...either that, or I should stop reading Spiderman.

6. Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Definetely. Harry wears his heart on his sleeve, just what Snape said. He is right in that phrase. And some may view it as a major weakness, maybe even myself. But while his heart may led him to trouble, it has also led him to the friends and allies he has now.

I don't think he'd be the defeatist that he is now. When it comes to certain things that is. He's no defeatist when fighting evil, but he is about his own abilities. Such as thinking he'd fail his classes and that he might as well take them with a friend like Ron. His parents would surely foster more faith in his own smarts. Not that kids always listen, but growing up with the Dursleys couldn't have helped.
Yes, Harry would almost certainly have more self-confidence if he had been raised by his parents. And, as Dumbledore says, he wouldn't have that drive to destroy Voldemort. I think he would still have his "saving people thing" because Lily had it (SWM and Godric's Hollow). And he would know more about the magical world so he wouldn't feel ignorant all the time.

I was reading recently about how genetics influence your ability to cope with and recover from childhood trauma. "Dandelion children" are the ones who survive and flourish despite horrible childhoods, because they are genetically equipped for it. I think Harry is one of these "dandelion children".

And the Dursleys have drummed into Harry so many times that he must not ask questions that he is still not asking relevant questions, much to the annoyance of many fans! Jo, on the other hand, is probably relieved about t his, since it makes the job of hiding information until it becomes relevant to the plot much easier! ;)

I think his first evidence of saving people appears back in PS. He comes to the defence of Ron when he is being belittled by Draco and when he gets the remembrall back for Neville. Even though they are little things I think that the verbal rescues of his friends are the first signs of his saving people or at least standing up for people.
Good point!

I was reading recently about how genetics influence your ability to cope with and recover from childhood trauma. "Dandelion children" are the ones who survive and flourish despite horrible childhoods, because they are genetically equipped for it. I think Harry is one of these "dandelion children".


Interesting idea. I wonder if the fact that he was loved for a year somehow made things easier for him. Tom Riddle was never loved by anyone, but we can assume that Harry was cherished as an infant. It seems possible to me that this gave him a protection from the indifference of the Dursleys.

I'm sure Harry won't kill anyone he loves to much to do that. His avantage over the He-Voldemort is his ablity to love. the frist think i remeber liking about harry is when we found out that he wasn't normal maybe a relate to him on that becuase I felt for a long time that i was diffrent I liked to read, I wore glasses, and I wasn't rich. Although it took me longer to find a place in this world then harry I still relate to him in a lot of ways.

Interesting idea. I wonder if the fact that he was loved for a year somehow made things easier for him. Tom Riddle was never loved by anyone, but we can assume that Harry was cherished as an infant. It seems possible to me that this gave him a protection from the indifference of the Dursleys.
I'm convinced that being loved for a year made a huge difference. dcv did some research on Reactive Attachment Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder)before HBP and we came to the conclusion that Voldemort suffers from it. His never having been loved is the cause and his not understanding love and trust are some of the symptoms. Harry, on the other hand, had those first precious 15 months with loving parents, rather than in an orphanage, which allowed him to develop normally and taught him how to love.

I think another reason why Harry survived 10 years with the Dursleys was that he knew all along that they were not his parents. This would make the abuse much easier to bear than if his real parents had treated him that badly. Harry knows that it isn't all his fault and that he was loved once, and that makes all the difference.

How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now?
Humility. Humility has shaped Harry to be the person he is. Harry's estimation of himself is rather different than Dudley's. Because he was treated so unfairly, it has made him stronger and has broken down what could otherwise have been a very spoiled, unruly child. The steps taken to instill within him this type of humility were completely irrational, but it has made Harry the person he is. You learn from trials, as Harry has his entire life. You become stronger because you've learned from them and have the stamina and will to urge on and confront those trials. Harry has done that. Because he has no pre-conceived notion of being the best, he doesn't take much for granted. Harry has his flaws, but it seems to me as though they are coming full circle, as much as I believe they came for his father.

Would he be the same person if his parents had lived?
I believe so. From the snippets we've seen of Lily, especially, I think she and James would have imbued in him the same morals and beliefs they had. Judging by the sacrifices they made for Harry, I don't doubt for one second that Harry's heart and mind would have been any less pure than how it is now.

If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
I think the Harry we know now would have been different. In a wizarding family, he would have been treated like a king, and none of the objectiveness with which he lives now would have been imparted in him. If anything, living with a wizarding family, I believe, would have made him weaker. When you're spoiled, you mostly have illusions, and not a complete sense of self or of the purity love because whatever love a spoiled person feels, is mostly narcissistic. If Harry had lived in an orphanage, I don't think he would have turned out like Tom Riddle, but I do believe that he would have had a very hardened heart. Even through the trials that Harry has gone through, he has managed to stay with an innocence that Riddle never experienced.


Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart?

One example that always sticks out for me is when Harry is being possessed by Voldemort in the MoM:


"Kill me now, Dumbledore...

Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, Harry felt the creature use him again...

"If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy..."

Let the pain stop, thought Harry. Let him kill us...End it, Dumbledore...Death is nothing compared to this...

And I'll see Sirius again...

And as Harry's heart filled with emotion, the creature's coils, loosened, the pain was gone.

Harry thought about dying, about ending the pain he was experiencing, but instead of thinking that all he wanted was an escape, and that was absolutely all he wanted, he wanted to see Sirius. A person who, until a couple of years before, meant nothing to him, and could have been the person who betrayed his parents.

Also, when Harry saves Wormtail, he does it because he didn't want his father's best friends to become killers. His heart in the right place, and because it's unspoiled, it will be the thing that most and thoroughly destroys Voldemort.

Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
I think he will. However, his heart is hurting at this point in time. Bitterness and a sense of revenge are growing within it. However, Harry has gone through this many times before, not necessarily and exactly something like this, but he has endured enough tribulations that would make anyone turn around and scream for bloody revenge at every turn. Instead, those troubles have strengthened Harry and he has yet to leave bitterness or revenge rule his every action or decision.

Despite Harry's calm and resolute demeanor in the final chapter, I do think Rowling plans to deal with this issue of Harry's 'darker side'. In Book 6 this was explored mostly through Harry's reaction to Snape's killing of Dumbledore. And Rowling makes a point of having Harry remember Snape, and consider that he might run into him next year, very close to the end of the book.
I think she has to. Harry is by no means perfect, and I think the fact that he shares so much with Voldemort will be a tremendous advantage for him. Harry's "dark side" could be the turning point into what decision he makes regarding some crucial piece of Voldemort. Much as being a Parselmouth helped Harry (which is by all accounts, a very Dark piece of magic) I think whatever other "dark" connection he has with Voldemort will be useful and therefore used to Harry's advantage.

Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
I was thinking about this question today, and I don't think his curiousity is stifled after the death of Dumbledore, for a good reason - he knows he has to go get the Horcruxes, but he tells his friends he is going to Godric's Hollow, where his parents died. When I read that the first time, I wasn't expecting him to say he was going there - why would he, if not for curiousity? Godric's Hollow may not have anything to do with the Horcrux Hunt, but it will be an emotional place for Harry - almost like going back to square one in his life. So I'm really looking forward to that episode in Book 7.

6. Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
Two scenes early on in the series came to mind: the Mirror of Erised, both what Harry saw and the fact that he was able to get the stone from the mirror, and the Shrieking Shack scene in PoA, in which he shows mercy to Peter.

Harry's love shines back at him when he sees his parents in the Mirror of Erised. Then at the end of the book, his innocence saves him from Quirrel-mort when he is able to receive the stone from the mirror because he isn't tempted to "use it," just "have it."

Harry just doesn't seem to have a selfish bone in his body, and that's amazing considering he has been jealous of Dudley since babyhood. So I think Harry's generosity of spirit is one of his great strengths - which is also why he is so kind to Dobby, giving him the socks off his own feet, and he's able to forgive Kreacher for the death of Sirius, and not punish him as some would have done.

In the Shrieking Shack scene, Harry stops Sirius and Lupin from killing Peter, though he realizes what Peter has done. Again, he is showing a level of forgiveness that is greater than any of the adults in the Shack - including Snape. It's amazing that Harry would step forward to keep his father's friends from becoming murderers - that's a very generous thing to do for them, but obviously Peter owes him a debt after that. You can look at Harry in terms of his good Karma coming back to help him, just as Voldemort's bad Karma may come back to bite him if Peter ever turns against the Dark Lord.

Ah I forgot to answer two important questions:

Favorite Quotes: Well, most of the funnier ones are by the Weasleys (includes Ron, Ginny, Fred & George) and the odd ones by Luna. I've noticed Harry's most funniest quotes have a bitter side to them. For example:

"Pity you can't attach an extra arm to yours [broom], Malfoy. Then it could catch the Snitch for you."


"You know your mother, Malfoy? The expression on her face - like she's got dung under her nose? Is she like that all the time or just because you were with her?"


They might be funny and both of them are directed at Draco, (as we all know they dislike each other) but Harry's speciality is using humor for his own satisfaction.

On the other hand, all the memorable quotes by him are not mean! For examples:

"I realised I can’t shut myself away or crack up. It could be me next, couldn’t it? But if it is, I’ll make sure I take as many Death Eaters with me as I can and Voldemort too, if I can manage it."


"Dumbledore's man through and through," said Harry. "That's right."

"He [Dumbledore] will only be gone from the school when none are loyal to him"

These are all very touching moments and they're related to Dumbledore somehow or the other. (In the case of the first quote, Harry was saying it to Dumbledore)

Favorite moments: Wow so many of these!

-All the Quidditch games, not because I'm very very interested in Quidditch or anything, but Harry's adventures get me excited. :rotfl:
-All the "battles" with Voldemort beginning with PS/SS
-Mirror of Erised
-D.A.

And so many more.

EDIT: Oh about the quotes, a huge thanks to MuggleNet for gathering all those in one place, because lazy people *cough*me*cough* don't like getting their books from the bookshelf and searching through them for the quotes. :lol:

- his tendency to hold grudges; I think he will have to learn forgiveness
I don't think that he has this flaw, it's more the opposite. He has plenty of reasons to hold grudges against Dudley, nontheless he saves him.
He has plenty of reasons to hold grudges against Draco, nontheless he feels pity.
He has plenty of reasons in OotP to hold grudges against Snape, nontheless he feels sorry for him.
And the MOST important: He has plenty of reasons to hold grudges (and much more) against Voldemort, nontheless he pitys him as a child.

I always thought that this last scene was crucial in Harrys personality. Dumbledore even comments it, looking surprised, I guess this is very very important, and will play a huge role in book 7.



- his ability to love
- his friends
- his loyalty to those he loves
- his bravery
- his intelligence and ingenuity I agree. And would like to add his magical skills.
Even if he isn't that brilliant as Hermione, he is still very talented in many aspects:
DADA in general
The corporal patronus (making the whole Wizegamot surprised)
His grades are overall pretty good.
His talent for flying. He's a natural. Most quidditch players come probably from wizarding homes,meaning that they played already in their childhood (like Ron and Ginny) but Harry is really good without ever having seen a flying broom. :)

I don't think that he has this flaw, it's more the opposite.

I always thought that this last scene was crucial in Harrys personality. Dumbledore even comments it, looking surprised, I guess this is very very important, and will play a huge role in book 7.

I think he will have to forgive Snape for killing Dumbledore specifically. However I have no wish to discuss that on this thread but that is where my forgiveness point came from.

I agree. And would like to add his magical skills.


Agreed, I can't believe I missed those off of the list, maybe I was just missing the entirely obvious there.

Not sure how his flying ability will help him against Voldemort, though I think that his working as part of a team on the Quidditch field will help in an abstract kind of a way. I think that to defeat all of Voldemort's forces it will be very much a team effort.

Just an out-of-nowhere comment regarding Harry's curiousity--

He always seems to be curious about things that are going on around him, but not so much about things in the past. For instance, he never asks (that we know of) about his family beyond his parents, where they lived, what they did, etc. Why do you think his curiousity has this sort of 'blind spot'? One would think he would be very interested and want to know these things particularly. Is it just bc it would give too much plot stuff away, or does he avoid thinking about it?

I think that partly it may be that he does not wish to dwell in the past, a fault which I think may be one of Voldemort's since he is very much shaped by his own past. Also though I think that it might be one of those things hidden for the necessity of the plot.

Not sure how his flying ability will help him against Voldemort, though I think that his working as part of a team on the Quidditch field will help in an abstract kind of a way. I think that to defeat all of Voldemort's forces it will be very much a team effort.

:agree: Harry can't duel with Voldemort alone. Seriously, Harry's magical skills compared to Voldemorts'? I'm not underestimating Harry but we can't deny Voldemort is more powerful than Harry when it comes to magical skills. But we all hope Harry's power to love will be enough to melt Voldemort. And that's another reason he needs to accept his friends' help. He will need them and he needs to understand that. :tu:

He always seems to be curious about things that are going on around him, but not so much about things in the past. For instance, he never asks (that we know of) about his family beyond his parents, where they lived, what they did, etc. Why do you think his curiousity has this sort of 'blind spot'? One would think he would be very interested and want to know these things particularly. Is it just bc it would give too much plot stuff away, or does he avoid thinking about it?

As LouisaB said, it's probably something Jo doesn't want to give away. If not that, maybe Harry is too scared to look into his past? Honestly, his parents' death, his cruel relatives, his godfathers' death etc. so who knows what else he'll find.

:agree: Harry can't duel with Voldemort alone. Seriously, Harry's magical skills compared to Voldemorts'? I'm not underestimating Harry but we can't deny Voldemort is more powerful than Harry when it comes to magical skills. But we all hope Harry's power to love will be enough to melt Voldemort. :tu:

Somehow I don't think it will end with them dueling each other although I think that it will be a case of Harry facing Voldemort alone. I don't think the power used to defeat him will be in the form of spells, but as you put it his power to love.

I think that the team effort will be needed to take on all the other forces of Voldemort - Death Eaters, werewolves, Dementors, or whoever else has sided with him at the end.

Somehow I don't think it will end with them dueling each other although I think that it will be a case of Harry facing Voldemort alone. I don't think the power used to defeat him will be in the form of spells, but as you put it his power to love. I think that the team effort will be needed to take on all the other forces of Voldemort - Death Eaters, werewolves, Dementors, or whoever else has sided with him at the end.
It has always been Harry alone fighting against Voldemort. Jo has meant it to be like that. She might change her mind this time, but one could assume it will be the same way. A quote by Jo, herself, that supports the "Voldemort is more powerful" statement:


JKR: Harry is not a good enough wizard yet to even attempt to take on Voldemort as wizard to wizard. He’s escaped him three, four times if you count the encounter with Tom Riddle. He keeps doing it because there is one thing that Voldemort doesn’t understand and that’s the power that keeps Harry going. And we all know what that power is.



There is another quote by Jo where she says, Harry had go on alone in this fight with Voldemort, but I can't seem to find it. I've used it before, but right now I'm at a loss.

There is another quote by Jo where she says, Harry had go on alone in this fight with Voldemort, but I can't seem to find it. I've used it before, but right now I'm at a loss.

Isn't it when she is discussing the death of Voldemort? I think it's in the Mugglenet/TLC interview, I'll see if I can't find it.

But I agree that Harry'll have to fight the final fight himself. Look at all great literature...the mentor can't help (usually they die or something) then the best friend gets tied up and somthing happens to the girl. (Ginny in this case). And the hero ALWAYS has to go it alone.

But we all hope Harry's power to love will be enough to melt Voldemort.

Dorothy: Come on, just try it.
Harry: OK, if you say so. *throws bucket of Amortentia-laced water*
Voldy: *Bubbling scream* Aaargh, I'm melting!
Harry: Cool, it really does work!
Dorothy: Told you so.
Snape: I don't think it's really fair to make it that easy after everything I've gone through.
Harry: Next time we're threatened by an evil lord I'll let you throw the bucket.

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?That's a good question. It is interesting that Harry's theories turned out wrong (and he still got some things wrong in HBP, like the true form of Tonks' Patronus and what it meant). I do believe that Harry's truthsense will increase in book 7. I kind of see it as evidence that he is growing older and wiser and is now able to discern what is really going on. Of course, that doesn't mean he'll always get things right, but I do think he'll develop a stronger truthsense in the final book.

That's a good question. It is interesting that Harry's theories turned out wrong (and he still got some things wrong in HBP, like the true form of Tonks' Patronus and what it meant). I do believe that Harry's truthsense will increase in book 7. I kind of see it as evidence that he is growing older and wiser and is now able to discern what is really going on. Of course, that doesn't mean he'll always get things right, but I do think he'll develop a stronger truthsense in the final book.


It may come down in part to his exposure to Voldemort's mind in OotP. As Dumbledore said, he's had a level on insight into Voldemort's thoughts and thought process that's unprecedented. So it may just be that he now knows how Voldemort thinks and can predict his actions in ways that others can't.

It may come down in part to his exposure to Voldemort's mind in OotP. As Dumbledore said, he's had a level on insight into Voldemort's thoughts and thought process that's unprecedented. So it may just be that he now knows how Voldemort thinks and can predict his actions in ways that others can't.

Do you think that this due to the backfired Avada Kedavra?

Or did his parents (at least one of them) have the same thinking process and passed it on to him? (I like this idea better, because a lot of things that Harry can do are attributed to the backfired Avada Kedavra)

Harry's instincts have saved him so many times. He's starting to plan and use magic now, but in the first 3 books Harry used to forget he was a wizard and respond to every attack by ducking and running! It was instinct that allowed him to destroy the Diary Horcrux and instinct that told him how to keep Quirrelmort off him. Later on it was instinct that showed him what to do in the graveyard, forcing the beads of light back to Voldemort's wand.

Harry is also a good judge of character in most cases.

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?

I would like to take this opportunity to quote Professor McGonagall (movie version) "Pure dumb luck".

Sorry I couldn't resist that one. It is one of my favourite McGonagall lines even if it isn't exactly canon. ;)

Seriously I think that perhaps it was largely luck with a healthy dose of persistence. I don't think it was his instincts so much as his determination. Even with Hermione and Ron and the Professors dismissing his theories about Draco he was determined to stick to his convictions and get the proof that he needed. It just happened that this time he was on the right track to begin with. I can't help but wonder whether, if he had realised his scar was hurting because of Quirrell and not Snape at that first feast whether he would have pursued Quirrell with the same conviction and found the proof he needed.

I think things will change in the seventh book, with his friends perhaps taking more notice of what he has to say and trusting his judgement more than they had previously.

Do you think that this due to the backfired Avada Kedavra?

Or did his parents (at least one of them) have the same thinking process and passed it on to him? (I like this idea better, because a lot of things that Harry can do are attributed to the backfired Avada Kedavra)


Well the insight into Voldemort's mind from OotP certainly came from the backfired AK/scar. But Lily and James must have had similar instincts in order to defy Voldemort three times and survive.Harry's instincts have saved him so many times. He's starting to plan and use magic now, but in the first 3 books Harry used to forget he was a wizard and respond to every attack by ducking and running! It was instinct that allowed him to destroy the Diary Horcrux and instinct that told him how to keep Quirrelmort off him. Later on it was instinct that showed him what to do in the graveyard, forcing the beads of light back to Voldemort's wand.


Excellent point. He's coming to rely on magic more and more and to understand magic and how to use it.

Seriously I think that perhaps it was largely luck with a healthy dose of persistence. I don't think it was his instincts so much as his determination.
But Harry often just knows the right thing to do in a crisis. Whether it is dodging curses or knowing how to destroy the Diary, Harry's gut feelings are pretty reliable.

But Harry often just knows the right thing to do in a crisis. Whether it is dodging curses or knowing how to destroy the Diary, Harry's gut feelings are pretty reliable.

I agree that his instincts in the heat of the moment are spot on. I was referring to his instincts in figuring things out on a day to day basis, rather than when he is in the line of fire.

Excellent point. He's coming to rely on magic more and more and to understand magic and how to use it.
When was the very first time Harry actually used a spell to solve a problem? I can't remember.

In SS/PS doesn't he say "are you a witch or aren't you" to Hermione when she wants to make a fire. Not doing a spell himself obviously but using magic in a crisis nevertheless.

In SS/PS doesn't he say "are you a witch or aren't you" to Hermione when she wants to make a fire. Not doing a spell himself obviously but using magic in a crisis nevertheless.

No, it was Ron that said that...

"Yes - of course - but there's no wood!" Hermione crind, wringing her hands.

"HAVE YOU GONE MAD?" Ron bellowed. "ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?"

"Oh right!" ...

So it's not quite yet he starts to rely on magic...

Eeek! My bad, what I get for posting without my books. Well then I don't know what the first time he used magic off the top of his head was :lol:

It's mostly Ron whose predictions turn out to be correct eventually, not Harry's but I agree Harry is a good judge of character. One thing I noticed was in HBP, Harry was so sure Draco was a Death Eater, but Ron and Hermione didn't believe him. It turned out to be true, didn't it? So I deduced whenever Harry is sure about himself, and his own ideas/thoughts, he turns out to be correct. Determination and confidence will play a big role in Book 7, IMO. :)

Eeek! My bad, what I get for posting without my books. Well then I don't know what the first time he used magic off the top of his head was
CoS, when he disarms Lockhart?

CoS, when he disarms Lockhart?

Yeah, after CoS during the dueling club, "Expelliarmus" seems to become Harry's most instinctual (I don't think that's a word) spell...he uses it against Voldemort, Lockhart, he tries to alot in PoA...definitly his favorite!

CoS, when he disarms Lockhart?
Yeah, that sounds about right. He couldn't use his wand in the Chamber because Riddle took it, so he used the sword and the basilisk fang as weapons. In PoA he used the Patronus charm very effectively, but in the Shack he still threw himself on Sirius and attacked him with his bare hands.

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?

I think it is debatable to what extent he has improved, to date. Certainly, he was right that Draco was up to something. But this was not actually news to the adults 'in charge' (Snape and Dumbledore), who both appear to have been taking some interest in these activities of Draco's themselves. Harry may have been the only one to figure out that Draco was using the Room of Requirement in some way, though. From Dumbledore's remarks on the Tower it is certainly not clear that he had.

Harry was completely off in left field about Tonks, whose altered behavior he attributed to grief for Sirius rather than to problems in her relationship to Lupin, a relationship which he did not even suspect existed.

And, of course, there is the biggest 'instinct' issue of all in HBP: Snape/the HBP. Harry is SURE that Snape is evil (long before he sees Snape murder Dumbledore, which I certainly grant is a good reason for drawing such a conclusion, though hardly 'instinctive'). Supposing Harry is 100% correct, this would mean his instincts regarding the Half-Blood Prince were wrong, and Hermione's were right. Harry certainly trusted the 'Prince' enough to use a spell of his 'for enemies' when he found himself in a tight spot.

I expect, though, that Book 7 will be the book in which Harry finally gets it (whatever it is) right. I would not be surprised to see him correctly reject some bit of received wisdom. Maybe Nagini is not a Horcrux...is a pet theory of mine, and Harry will figure this out somehow, as an example. Or maybe Harry will have to rely on his instincts and do something really unexpected to defeat Voldemort, sort of like he decided to visit Hagrid when he went after Sluggie's memory. But in Book 7, there will be no lucky potion involved.

And, of course, there is the biggest 'instinct' issue of all in HBP: Snape/the HBP. Harry is SURE that Snape is evil (long before he sees Snape murder Dumbledore, which I certainly grant is a good reason for drawing such a conclusion, though hardly 'instinctive'). Supposing Harry is 100% correct, this would mean his instincts regarding the Half-Blood Prince were wrong, and Hermione's were right. Harry certainly trusted the 'Prince' enough to use a spell of his 'for enemies' when he found himself in a tight spot.


Obvioulsy the whole Snape issue is for another thread. I jsut meant that he was right about Snape actually having taken the vow with Narcissa regardless of motive. And obviously in his suspiscions about Draco as well.

I'd like to apologize for any misinterpretations of my post. It was not intended to imply that Harry was right about Snape's loyalty. Just that Harry's instincts ARE getting better. The number of things he was right about in HBP is more than the number of things he was right about in previous books. Not only Draco and the Room of Requirement, but the necklace etc. I understand that tensions are high right now but can we keep this thread about Harry?

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?

In addition to talking to about (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=4125448&postcount=15) possibly having to deal with Dumbledore's death in Book 7, rather than the composed and persevering Harry we saw at the end of HBP, it makes me wonder how Harry feels about putting so much trust in the HBP, only to find out it's Snape. It must be a real kick to the head when a guy you are trusting and even admiring turns out to be one of your most hated enemies.

It's pretty clear that he hated Snape but even neglected to really empathize how Snape felt in his worst memory as opposed to feeling he's going to turn out to be like a Jerk like his dad. It does bring up a real interesting assumption that perhaps Harry's own instincts about his father and Snape are wrong. That perhaps his father is a jerk and Snape is more a hero than he realizes. Anyway it just seemed that Harry didn't really give much thought to the idea that Snape was the HBP. Perhaps in Book 7? Or does anyone think he doesn't care enough to really explore than idea or does it even need exploring?

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
Living with the Dursley's has kept Harry humble and not a person who thinks he deserves more than he can earn. He has had so little love that he will go to great lengths to keep those he cares about safe.

If his parents had lived he would likely be the same but better fed and maby more like his Dad.
If he had grown up with another wizard family he would have grown up a pampered little prince and maybe not strong enough for these tasks.
I think an orphanage would have done him like the Dursleys. 2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
SS where he is so worried about Quirrel and throughout the adventure under Fluffy's floor. He is so overprotective of others and it is both a strength and flaw. Weve seen it lure him into trouble and save others both.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
Harry's curiosity helps him find answers and it will return to help him through the final trials.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
Harrys greatest strength is his heart and he will have to learn to rely on his friends as troops or pieces in a chess game to defeat LV. Harry could never have told Ron during the SS chessmatch to sacrifice himself. He needs to become like that or let Ron take charge of the DA.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
I think he should have toughened up enough by now to accept that losses will continue to happen before they can finally defeat LV. Hopefully he will realise he is not the only one with a destiny here and let the others take their chances and contribute to his cause.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
His pure heart is shown in so many places in each book this would turn into a book itself if I tried to write them down. He has been able to retain it so far after all the things he has been through, yes it will help him through the end.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

His years with the Dursleys taught him, if anything, some form of compassion. He was able to sympathize with many people due to his horrible childhood...I can't provide a satisfying answer to this question.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

Harry's "saving people" thing (altruism) is first shown when he saves Hermione from the troll. He had no reason to, he just did because he knew that no matter how annoying she seemed, she didn't deserve to be killed by a troll. If I recall, Ron was reluctant at first. As was shown in OOTP, his altruism can both be a blessing and a curse. It should be both in book 7.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

This curiousity, like his altruism, is both blessing and curse. As Dumbledore says, "curiousity is not a sin", but what if he had turned the diary over to Dumbledore as soon as it began to talk back to him? This curiousity compels him to view Snape's Worst Memory, and, consequently, costs Sirius' life.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Aside, obviously, from the ability to love, Harry's greatest strength is his bravery. He was prepared to accept death in the graveyard scene in GoF, but decided he wouldn't go down without a fight. In the same scene, he risks his life to return Cedric's body to Hogwarts. I think his bravest move was taunting the Death Eaters in the Department of Mysteries to buy the DA some time.

Another strength, as I said before, is his altruism. Harry despises being a celebrity, this compels him to help others so that he will not merely be known as "The Boy Who Lived". Harry shows immense determination. He ignores the threat of sadistic abuse by Umbridge by giving an interview to Rita Skeeter about Voldemort, and endures the same punishment while insisting Voldemort has returned.

His anger is his greatest weakness. He must master Occlumency if he is to defeat Voldemort.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

His parent's deaths set him on his destiny, imparting both a furious desire for revenge and an immense desire for a family. Cedric's death imparted in him an even further altruistic personality, and was, I believe, the event in which he officially lost his innocence. Sirius' death resulted in him more depressed than ever, but officially marked his gradual entering into manhood.

Dumbledore's death was perhaps the death that made him more mature and understanding than ever. It made him realize that no guardian could protect him forever, and made him more intent than ever on destroying Voldemort.


6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Dumbledore says that Harry's pure heart is very remarkable, considering all he has gone through. Harry does not understand this, but compare it to Tom Riddle, who was another orphaned boy with a miserable childhood. Harry will never join the Death Eaters, because Voldemort killed his parents.

His pure heart is shown the first time he stares into the Mirror of Erised. Even though he knows that Voldemort killed his parents, he does not see him vanquished, instead he sees what could have been. Perhaps this is because he thinks Voldemort is dead, but it is a pure desire.

My Analysis of Harry Potter: Harry is damaged by his life, but I think that it makes him stronger in many ways. Like many people, he is blinded by his own prejudices and he judges people unfairly. However, unlike many people, he can see when he is in the wrong and has the potential to overcome his biased viewpoint. Harry has courage and compassion but he hasn't yet learned to temper these with wisdom and patience. I think the key to Harry's future is his Mother. It is her compassion, her ability to overlook the flaws in others that Harry most needs (aside from a healthy dose of think before you act).

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde? I don't think Harry would be the same if he had grown up differently. For one, I don't think his parent's would have inflicted the abuse upon him that the Dursleys' have. Also, he would have grown up on the run and I think that would have altered his personality. As far as growing up in an orphanage, I don't think Harry ever had the capacity for the kind of evil that Voldemort does. Harry has had ample opportunity to wreak vengeance on the Durleys' for the way they have treated him, but he is too empathetic to ever actually cause them near the harm that they have done to him.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
It is both a flaw and a strength and it could easily play either way in the future, although I believe that it is JK's intention to show it as a strength, because we have already seen it be a weakness.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
I think Harry's curiosity has always been stifled about certain subjects (his parents, for example). I think it will get stronger as he will have to muddle through on his own and won't have Dumbledore around to tell him which questions he should ask.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
I covered this during my opening statement.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
This is an interesting question. Obviously he is most, and least, affected by the loss of his parents. It is a deep loss that has affected the course of his entire life and it is something that ways on him heavily. Yet, the losses of Dumbledore and Sirius are deeper and more personal to Harry because he had relationships with them that shaped him and most importantly: he can remember them and remember what he has lost with their deaths. Yet Harry hasn't learned to accept the loss of Sirius and Dumbledore. I'm not sure that he has accepted the loss of his parents, either. Until he does, I am afraid that he will be more emotionally vulnerable, thus easier for Voldemort to manipulate.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
That Harry is still capable of compassion and empathy is the biggest example of his pure heart. I can't see Harry truly losing this.

My analysis of Harry Potter
Harry is our hero and window to this magical world. He's a great character who let's his emotions dictate his actions sometimes. He's very brave and a loyal friend. An all around good guy. His upbringing has shaped the person he has become to a degree, although I don't want to place all the emphasis on that. I think he would have turned out somewhat the same no matter what.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
Harry is a perfect Griffindor personality. He is brave and loyal. He's sticks up for what he thinks is right. The weaknesses he must overcome before facing Voldemort are his strong emotions of anger. They can make him too brash and unable to defend his mind from attacks etc.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
Yes I think he will be able to maintain his pure heart, although it will be a great challenge for him.

Anyway it just seemed that Harry didn't really give much thought to the idea that Snape was the HBP. Perhaps in Book 7? Or does anyone think he doesn't care enough to really explore than idea or does it even need exploring?

I don't think it's so much that he doesn't care, as much as that he's just so prejudiced against Severus that he's determined to think the worst of him no matter what. Although Harry is usually very perceptive and understanding, and probably could come to understand him better if he tried, he doesn't want to understand or sympathize with him. To be fair, Severus hardly makes it easier for him, but I thought it was interesting that he trusted the Prince and sympathized briefly with Snape after seeing SWM, but he quickly forgot this trust and understanding. I think something very significant will have to happen to get Harry to believe in Severus--he's not going to come to it just by reasoning through it.

Harry Potter: I love Harry, everything about his character and his strengths as a person. He has had so much more to deal with than any teenager should have too. He has definatly annoyed me at times, but everyone has annoyed me at one point or another. He is human after all. After all he has been through it's a wonder he is still so grounded and all I can put to that is his choices in his friends. Ron and Hermione have helped make him who he is, along with the Weasley's and Dumbledore.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now?
This is the question I really wanted to answer.
My word the Dursley's made Harry who he is today. I think Harry knew right from wrong anyway and saw it in all it's glory while living with the Dursley's. It's hard to tell if they would have treated Dudley the same way if Harry wasn't there, or if they were doing it to show they didn't care about him at all. They took him in, but were not going to show any affection. I agree that children should never be spoilt, although I am not a mother myself yet, I do have little cousins and see what my relatives have done to them by letting them grow up too fast and have everything they want. I think that's what saved Harry.

Would he be the same person if his parents had lived?
I think Harry still would have been the same person had his parents lived, probebly not as troubled, but definatly still a strong boy who is able to love and I'm sure Lilly and James would have brought him up with manners, he would not have been over indulged like Dudley.

If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
I'm not sure about this one. Again it comes down to decisions. Not everyone one who grows up in an Orphange turn into pure evil. Really Harry had it worse, even at an Orphange they still look after you and feed your properly and educate you. Harry didn't even have that.
As for the other wizarding family He would have had it alot easier, but I don't know that he would have been the same person. I agree with Dumbledore that it was better for him to grow up away from being "the boy who lived"

Just jumping in about the question of Harry's first spells - Expelliramus was mentioned, but I thought I would point out that Harry DID use other spells in that Dueling Lesson - I don't remember if there were more than one - but he at least used Rictasempra on Draco.

I'm really surprised we don't actually SEE Harry when he performs his first spell, but you guys are right (since I'm sure his first spell came sometime in his first year, probably in a class. Otherwise we would have gotten a ton of angst and worry over why he can't cast spells - any firstie would panic if he got to the end of the year and still couldn't use his wand. Even Neville probably cast SOMEspell correctly that year.

Just jumping in about the question of Harry's first spells - Expelliramus was mentioned, but I thought I would point out that Harry DID use other spells in that Dueling Lesson - I don't remember if there were more than one - but he at least used Rictasempra on Draco.

I'm really surprised we don't actually SEE Harry when he performs his first spell, but you guys are right (since I'm sure his first spell came sometime in his first year, probably in a class. Otherwise we would have gotten a ton of angst and worry over why he can't cast spells - any firstie would panic if he got to the end of the year and still couldn't use his wand. Even Neville probably cast SOMEspell correctly that year.
That's correct, but what I was thinking of was the first time Harry responds to an actual crisis by using magic instead of dodging or running. In the duelling club he knew he had to cast a spell. Hermione wasn't the only one who appeared to forget all about magic in a crisis - at least in the first few books. Practising for the Tri-Wizard Tournament seems to have been a turning point for Harry, although in the first task he relied almost totally on flying skills and quick thinking rather than magic (just the one summoning charm). And of course, he conjured his Patronus to great effect in PoA.

I just want to preface this by saying that character analysis of the main protagonist in a series of books is always going to be problematic. The main character, the one which encompasses the main point of view of almost every chapter in (so far) six novels needs to be not only multi-faceted, but a conduit. Harry needs to be strong enough of character that we want to follow him, and easily able to slip back into the shadows so that he doesn't overpower all other characters. And Harry? Does this. Brilliantly. Harry is the most cleverly constructed character in the books and it is my firm opinion that, had he not been such a fantastic creation, the books would not be as popular as they are. Harry, for me, is the most interesting character in his world.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Riddle?

The Dursleys have made various impacts on Harry's life. They have helped mould him by contrast, so that he is compassionate, generous and kind. They have given him a keen understanding of the injustices of the world, by perpetrating several against him. They have humbled him, given him an insecurity which creates an aura of intense modesty given his natural skills, and a somewhat damaging characteristic of not believing in himself enough. It is through the Dursleys that Harry has been able to live a life which is not quite normal, but also not constantly in the spotlight. On the one hand, this has been a good influence on his character, in so many others it has been damaging.

I believe that Harry's growing up in an orphanage would have a similar effect - the main difference being that he wouldn't have the protection of kinship. He may have been attacked early on had he grown up in an orphanage, and there would therefore be no books to theorise about or discuss. It is important that Harry grew up with the Dursleys, as much for him to gain strength and a perspective of viewing the world which is primarily selfless, and also for that safety. If he had grown up with another wizarding family, he might have been treated more kindly, but he would have been given too much attention and scrutiny throughout his youth and this would no doubt have affected him in ways which would anger and upset him.

Had Harry's parents lived, I have no doubt he would be a generally happier person, but he would still have many problems in his life. He would have been nurtured, perhaps in some ways spoiled (or perhaps just given the love and care he deserved). He would also, however, be given a lot of that attention previously mentioned.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

Harry saves people from the very start. He saves Ron humiliation. It really depends on how you define 'saving people'. Physically, he and Ron save Hermione from the troll in Philosopher's Stone. Harry is told, as soon as he is a Wizard, that he is a 'saving people' type of person - that in many ways, he did so when he was an infant. He embraces this aspect and runs with it. Harry's need and his ability, to save everyone, is his biggest strength and his biggest flaw. He's very much a Shakespearean Hero in this regard. His best asset is also his worst.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

Actually, Harry doesn't ask nearly as many questions as I would ever expect. Yes, the Dursleys discouraged this in him, but they also would have encouraged a lot of terrible traits in him by example, so you'd think he'd deviate in this regard too. I do think that he's going to become even more inquisitive. He sort of has to.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Well, I have already mentioned what I believe is his greatest strength and weakness. I also believe he is very brave - not just in that 'rar rar rar, I shall duel this Wizard' kind of way, but in the way that saw him standing up for what he believed in - for people like Neville. He certainly belongs in Gryffindor for that bravery. He is loyal. Who doesn't adore the way he supports Dumbledore? He is trusting. The trusting nature of his personality is also a weakness, but it shows such fantastic strength of character, that after what he has been through, even just with the Dursleys, he can still be trusting. Then, of course, there is Harry's capacity to love - it is from this love that he gains the strength and will to save others, even to his own detriment.

Harry doesn't always accept the help offered to him. Part of his 'saving people thing' is that he thinks he has to do it all alone, and this isn't true. We have been shown from the beginning of the books that Harry is not the sole hero of the series. His friends, his allies, they are all important. Harry also underestimates himself in so many ways, and whilst this can be wonderful because it cuts through any arrogance he may otherwise have possessed, it does sometimes mean that he does go as far as he could or should. Harry sometimes lacks the sensitivity and ability to see things from other people's perspectives, but he's a darn sight better than most teenage boys his age. In fact, most of his minor flaws are the types that only particularly life-less people would be devoid of. Harry is not perfect. If he was, we wouldn't care about him. He is human, and this is good.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

Loss is a motivator for Harry, I think. It is partly the reason he pushes people away. It is partly the reason he feels such a great need to be the young man he is. I think it shall be the love for those he has lost, and those who continue to fight with him, which will win the war.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Every time Harry stands up for someone, performs a selfless, generous act, saves someone (in any sense of the word), acts in a loyal and respectful way, he is being pure of heart. Harry cares - this is his purity. This is what separates him from the likes of Voldemort. He doesn't care for any selfish reason, for anything that would solely benefit him - he cares for others even to the point which causes his own harm. He is selfless.

Harry will have to maintain his pure heart to vanquish Voldemort. He will not, and cannot, win having lost this facet of his personality. It will not be easy. I do think his darker side will prove to tempt him. But in the end, he will be triumphant. It is through love, not hatred, that Harry will win. It's what the Harry Potter books are all about.

Actually, Harry doesn't ask nearly as many questions as I would ever expect. Yes, the Dursleys discouraged this in him, but they also would have encouraged a lot of terrible traits in him by example, so you'd think he'd deviate in this regard too. I do think that he's going to become even more inquisitive. He sort of has to.
He certainly ought to ask a lot more questions and a lot of readers are disappointed that he doesn't. But if he asked the right questions and got the right answers, Jo wouldn't be able to save important points for book 7, so I guess we have to chalk it up to being necessary to the plot. And it's always possible that Harry asks questions offpage. I noticed on reading HBP that he seemed to know quite a few things which must have been told to him while we weren't listening!

Part of his 'saving people thing' is that he thinks he has to do it all alone, and this isn't true. We have been shown from the beginning of the books that Harry is not the sole hero of the series. His friends, his allies, they are all important.
True. I think this stems from the fact that from the age of one to the age of eleven he really did have to go it alone. Harry never had a friend to go to in all that time, so deep down he really does feel that he has to sort out his own problems.

He certainly ought to ask a lot more questions and a lot of readers are disappointed that he doesn't. But if he asked the right questions and got the right answers, Jo wouldn't be able to save important points for book 7, so I guess we have to chalk it up to being necessary to the plot. And it's always possible that Harry asks questions offpage. I noticed on reading HBP that he seemed to know quite a few things which must have been told to him while we weren't listening!I always figured that we couldn't be told the information, so he wasn't told, either. And we certainly don't see what Harry discusses off-page with his friends or other adults. But I do find it maddening since I want to know some information more than Harry seems to.

Topic reminder.

It's Harry's character we are supposed to discuss, not Jo's ways to build the plot.

He certainly ought to ask a lot more questions and a lot of readers are disappointed that he doesn't. But if he asked the right questions and got the right answers, Jo wouldn't be able to save important points for book 7, so I guess we have to chalk it up to being necessary to the plot. And it's always possible that Harry asks questions offpage. I noticed on reading HBP that he seemed to know quite a few things which must have been told to him while we weren't listening!

I agree. I am someone who asks more questions than they should, though, so even though it is terribly dangerous for the plot, I always expect the same of Harry. You bring up an excellent point about what is 'off the page'. There are clearly things Harry knows which we are never exposed to - the hours and hours of lessons both life and academic would be terribly boring for us. Still - I do not think Harry is all that inquisitive until Half Blood Prince. This is where we really get to see him asking questions and wanting answers. A lot of these questions are fixated on Malfoy's actions, of course, but it's still interesting to see. I think he's growing out of old habits of not asking and growing into inquisition.

I always figured that we couldn't be told the information, so he wasn't told, either. And we certainly don't see what Harry discusses off-page with his friends or other adults. But I do find it maddening since I want to know some information more than Harry seems to.

Yes, that is me. What can I say? I'm nosy! I want to know the things Harry rarely has the presence of mind to ask (or doesn't need to, because the answer was already supplied whilst we were doing the dishes, or having a shower, or anywhere else not being in his world.)

I think this stems from the fact that from the age of one to the age of eleven he really did have to go it alone. Harry never had a friend to go to in all that time, so deep down he really does feel that he has to sort out his own problems.

Completely. Harry feels he can only rely upon others not getting hurt if he is the only one out in the fray, and whilst this is noble, it's not the best course of action. They are not 'his own' problems in the true senses of the words. They are the whole world's. Harry alone should not have to take that burden, and given half the chance, his friends wouldn't let him (we see this most strongly at the end of HBP, but we also see examples in every book).

Alastor D - understood, but character and plot are inextricably linked. Since Harry is our main protagonist, it's a bit difficult to discuss his traits and character development without referencing that there are some narrative devices being used which shape them.

That's correct, but what I was thinking of was the first time Harry responds to an actual crisis by using magic instead of dodging or running. In the duelling club he knew he had to cast a spell. Hermione wasn't the only one who appeared to forget all about magic in a crisis - at least in the first few books. Practising for the Tri-Wizard Tournament seems to have been a turning point for Harry, although in the first task he relied almost totally on flying skills and quick thinking rather than magic (just the one summoning charm). And of course, he conjured his Patronus to great effect in PoA.

When I consider this I look to GoF as the turning point in Harry's use of magic to solve real problems. In that book he uses the "accio" spell to great effect in the first task. Later in the novel he drops the egg in the stair way and cannot reach it. We know that he knows the summoning charm yet it never occurs to him that that would be the best way of achieving his goal. At the end of the novel he uses the summoning world to grab the portkey which is too far away for him to get to on his own.

To me, the development of Harry's use of that spell marks the time when Harry solves a problem where it might not have been intutive to use magic. Of course he had used magic many times before to solve problems but I think it shows that he had beginning to think primarily as a wizard.

When I consider this I look to GoF as the turning point in Harry's use of magic to solve real problems. In that book he uses the "accio" spell to great effect in the first task. Later in the novel he drops the egg in the stair way and cannot reach it. We know that he knows the summoning charm yet it never occurs to him that that would be the best way of achieving his goal. At the end of the novel he uses the summoning world to grab the portkey which is too far away for him to get to on his own. Yes, the egg on the stairs was pretty typical for Harry. But it was necessary to the plot for the egg to be found by Snape and Moody, so Harry couldn't Accio it. It's like Jo said when asked about the limitations of magic. She had to decide which things magic couldn't help with (eg it can't bring back the dead and people can't conjure everything they need or conjure money), and if Harry always had a magical solution to every problem there would be no story.
Alastor D - understood, but character and plot are inextricably linked. Since Harry is our main protagonist, it's a bit difficult to discuss his traits and character development without referencing that there are some narrative devices being used which shape them.Quite right. I'm trying to stay on topic, but if we restrict the topic too obsessively we won't actually be able to discuss anything.

Alastor D - understood, but character and plot are inextricably linked. Since Harry is our main protagonist, it's a bit difficult to discuss his traits and character development without referencing that there are some narrative devices being used which shape them.Character and plot are linked, that's true. But why Jo wanted to picture Harry as someone who was thought not to ask questions is quite another thing. We are talking here about the Harry who is in the books, not about the Harry who might have been in the books.

I don't think it's so much that he doesn't care, as much as that he's just so prejudiced against Severus that he's determined to think the worst of him no matter what. Although Harry is usually very perceptive and understanding, and probably could come to understand him better if he tried, he doesn't want to understand or sympathize with him. To be fair, Severus hardly makes it easier for him, but I thought it was interesting that he trusted the Prince and sympathized briefly with Snape after seeing SWM, but he quickly forgot this trust and understanding. I think something very significant will have to happen to get Harry to believe in Severus--he's not going to come to it just by reasoning through it.
I liked that bit of flip-flop from the norm.

Normally it's Hermione telling Harry that Snape's "a member of the Order & we can trust him", and Harry saying "You're wrong", and in this case, we've got Hermione naysaying the Prince, and Harry backing him up. :)

Normally it's Hermione telling Harry that Snape's "a member of the Order & we can trust him", and Harry saying "You're wrong", and in this case, we've got Hermione naysaying the Prince, and Harry backing him up.
I liked that too. It underlines the Snape dilemma when Harry instinctively likes the HBP but Hermione distrusts him, yet with rl Snape it's almost the opposite. So far Harry's first impressions of Neville, Dumbledore, McGonagall, Ernie, etc, have all been correct, but for the most ambiguous character in the series he has two separate and contradictory first impressions!

When I consider this I look to GoF as the turning point in Harry's use of magic to solve real problems. In that book he uses the "accio" spell to great effect in the first task. Later in the novel he drops the egg in the stair way and cannot reach it. We know that he knows the summoning charm yet it never occurs to him that that would be the best way of achieving his goal. At the end of the novel he uses the summoning world to grab the portkey which is too far away for him to get to on his own.

To me, the development of Harry's use of that spell marks the time when Harry solves a problem where it might not have been intutive to use magic. Of course he had used magic many times before to solve problems but I think it shows that he had beginning to think primarily as a wizard.


You know, I never thought of it like that but that's an excellent juxtaposition of Harry's growth and reliance on magic.

You know, I never thought of it like that but that's an excellent juxtaposition of Harry's growth and reliance on magic.And then the next important step is in OotP when he has to grow into the role of a DADA teacher.

And then the next important step is in OotP when he has to grow into the role of a DADA teacher.

Yeah, and he's teaching others to think and use magic instinctually...it's obvious now that the TriWizard Tournament is what showed Harry what it's really going to take for him to be successful as a wizard.

Yeah, and he's teaching others to think and use magic instinctually...it's obvious now that the TriWizard Tournament is what showed Harry what it's really going to take for him to be successful as a wizard.


Interesting idea. GoF is definitely both the turning point of both the series and of Harry's development. It's possible that the Triwizard tournament is more than a throwaway plot device but a tool that allows Harry to grow and teaches him to confront problems with magic rather than the logic and bravery he used in the first three books.

Interesting idea. GoF is definitely both the turning point of both the series and of Harry's development. It's possible that the Triwizard tournament is more than a throwaway plot device but a tool that allows Harry to grow and teaches him to confront problems with magic rather than the logic and bravery he used in the first three books.
I think it makes him confront both. In the Tournament, Harry had to use both his magical skills and his logic. He wouldn't have gotten past the Sphinx if he hadn't used his logic. I also agree that the Tournament was what made Harry realize what type of ability and concentration he needed to withstand and be successful against Voldemort.

Interesting idea. GoF is definitely both the turning point of both the series and of Harry's development. It's possible that the Triwizard tournament is more than a throwaway plot device but a tool that allows Harry to grow and teaches him to confront problems with magic rather than the logic and bravery he used in the first three books.I'm not sure about this. He mastered the second task thanks to his moral fiber (meaning that he got awarded many points for the moral fiber, not for the magic, which was thanks to Dobby anyway :) ). In the first task he took Hermiones help and his flying talent to master the dragon.
The third task wasn't really hard, as Bartymoody was outside clearing the way. And in the graveyard it was again his bravery and the love of his parents that saved him.

I never saw that magic helped Harry much, it was always something else (friendship, love, loyalty) that made the difference.

In book 1 it was his selfless wish to get the stone. He got to the stone thanks to his friends.

In book 2 it was again his loyalty to Dumbledore and his will to save his best mates sister.

In book 3 the magic got provided by Hermione (time turner). The rest was his will to save more than one innocent life.

I never saw that magic helped Harry much, it was always something else (friendship, love, loyalty) that made the difference.

In book 1 it was his selfless wish to get the stone. He got to the stone thanks to his friends.

In book 2 it was again his loyalty to Dumbledore and his will to save his best mates sister.

In book 3 the magic got provided by Hermione (time turner). The rest was his will to save more than one innocent life.

Definitely true, but he does start to use magic more in the final confrontations in OotP and HBP. Not with Voldemort so much but he definitely uses Shield charms, stunners, etc in the battle with the Death Eaters. And in his unsuccesful fight with Snape in HBP he tries and fails to use magic against him. Contrast that with his use of "muggle dueling" against Sirius in PoA.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?Harry has learned to stand on his own two feet from a very young age and the art of protecting himself and avoiding trouble when it appears at the Dursleys. Living with wizards and everyone knowing him for his defience of Voldemort and living through the Avada Kedavra probably would have changed him a little bit but not a lot. Harry does not seek fame the same way as others might, he likes his independence and sometimes the solitude that he has. Harry gets a little uncomfortable around others that want say his photograph, Collin being the prime example of this. Harry appears very shy in public situations to and this might not have been such a problem if he had lived with other witches or wizards as he would have grown up getting use to that type of attension.

I feel that if Harry's parents had survived then Harry might not have gained the ambition to defeat Voldemort in the end as it is the loss that drives him to stay alive and defy Voldemort as much as he can.2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?Draco picking on Neville could have been the first save but of life that would have to be Hermione and the troll incident during PS/SS. Harrys will to save others is a strength and not a weakness as it allows him to achieve greater things when facing Voldemort. Harry cares about others mainly though in the first 5 books, he cares about others more than he cares about himself and his own well being. In HBP Harry wants to take up when Dumbledore is doing in the cave but when told no and how important Dumbledore thinks Harry is to him; Harry backs away. Again this could be Harry care about others and not dissapointing Dumbledore but it could be the first time we see Harry start to care about his well being to. This might sound selfish but not really as you can not love others if you can not love yourself. Harry does not want others to go with him because he does not want anyone else being killed because of him. This sounds like Dumbledore's worst fear in the cave scene when he is begging someone not to hurt them but to hurt him instead. On that note alone it sounds like Harrys will get himself hurt in book 7 in order to save other wizards lives and if that is what Harry decides is the right thing to do no matter how hard the pain is to endure, then he will do it.3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?I think Harry will be as curious as Dumbledore was in the cave when hunting down those Horcruxes as he is Dumbledore's man through and through and starts to act more like him at the end of HBP.4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?His greatest strength is his ability to love in the darkest of times and his ability to organise groups and ralley others to his cause. At first in GoF everyone hated Harry and thought him a cheat, by midway through the book some of the houses where accepting Harry as a champion. In simple terms Harry had manage to ralley some of the opposition. The same happened in OotP, his ability to ralley others to learn and be taught by him in the DA group kind of highlights some of his strengths and also how some feel safe under Harry's guidence during times of need.

Harry's weakness at the moment is his reluctance to allow others to choose there own routes in life. If others want to go with him on these horcruxes hunts then that is there choice and no one elses. Harry nees to learn how to trust others abilities and also who to trust in such bad times.6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?His sympathy for Voldemort during HBP is one such purity. Was Harry really feeling sympathy for Voldemort when he found out how his mother had died and not bothered to save herself even though Voldemort had killed almost everyone he cared about?

I'm not sure about this. He mastered the second task thanks to his moral fiber (meaning that he got awarded many points for the moral fiber, not for the magic, which was thanks to Dobby anyway ). In the first task he took Hermiones help and his flying talent to master the dragon.
The third task wasn't really hard, as Bartymoody was outside clearing the way. And in the graveyard it was again his bravery and the love of his parents that saved him.

I never saw that magic helped Harry much, it was always something else (friendship, love, loyalty) that made the difference.

In book 1 it was his selfless wish to get the stone. He got to the stone thanks to his friends.

In book 2 it was again his loyalty to Dumbledore and his will to save his best mates sister.

In book 3 the magic got provided by Hermione (time turner). The rest was his will to save more than one innocent life.
I think this is fairly important foreshadowing for the final conflict with Voldemort. We know Harry hasn't got a chance of beating Voldemort by magic - at least not in a conventional way. Voldemort is far too powerful. But love, instinct, logic, loyalty, and raw courage have served Harry well so far and these are the areas in which he is superior to Voldemort.

Which makes one wonder exactly how he'll do it. Something tells me something like what happened at GH will happen in book 7: Voldemort's hatred will be turned back on its master and destroy him. :evil:

Which makes one wonder exactly how he'll do it. Something tells me something like what happened at GH will happen in book 7: Voldemort's hatred will be turned back on its master and destroy him.

My idea has always been that the power of love will be uniting his friends. We've seen multiple people casting the same spell several times being more powerful than a single caster.

Harry has a tremedous capacity to inpire loyalty so I think that he could lead this into happening and that the power of all the combined, unified spells could be Voldemort's undoing.

I think this is fairly important foreshadowing for the final conflict with Voldemort. We know Harry hasn't got a chance of beating Voldemort by magic - at least not in a conventional way. Voldemort is far too powerful. But love, instinct, logic, loyalty, and raw courage have served Harry well so far and these are the areas in which he is superior to Voldemort.

I agree with this.
While his progression as a wizard is very important, in the next year I don't see him progressing anywhere near enough to be able to defeat Voldemort wizard to wizard. I think that his human qualities that are going to allow him to defear Voldemort. With all the distortions and manipulations Voldemort has done to himself, there isn't much human left of him. Therefore, the only way Harry can be more powerful than Voldemort is by using his human qualities and instincts, something that Voldemort doesn't really have at all.

The tri-Wizard tournament really helped him develop and use both his Wizarding skills and his more human quality to love. He made it through the tournament with a little (ok, a lot) of help from his friends, his ability to love others (his excellent moral fiber), and by increasing his skill and propensity towards using magic in a bind.

My idea has always been that the power of love will be uniting his friends. We've seen multiple people casting the same spell several times being more powerful than a single caster.
That is interesting. Harry definately isn't powerful enough to take on Voldemort alone. With all of his friends helping though he might just be able to muster up the magical power. I wonder if though if his friends could really give that much help since thy aren't the ones "with the power to vanquish the dark lord."

That is interesting. Harry definately isn't powerful enough to take on Voldemort alone. With all of his friends helping though he might just be able to muster up the magical power. I wonder if though if his friends could really give that much help since thy aren't the ones "with the power to vanquish the dark lord."


but if the power is the love he inspires isn't that the same thing?

My idea has always been that the power of love will be uniting his friends. We've seen multiple people casting the same spell several times being more powerful than a single caster.
That's a nice idea, but a team of Aurors could probably do the same thing more effectively. After a seven book build up to Harry confronting Voldemort alone, I confess that I would be disappointed if Harry didn't do the deed himself. But I don't see him killing Voldemort outright. My favourite theory so far was the one where Harry destroys Voldemort with a big squishy hug, but I don't see that happening! :lol: But I think something about Harry will break Voldemort, just as Hagrid said in book one "Cause somethin' about you finished him, Harry. There was somethin' goin' on that night he hadn't counted on - I dunno what it was, no one does - but somethin' about you stumped him, all right." We know now that it was Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry that time. But I still think that these words are important. I think they foreshadow the final conflict in book 7.Harry has a tremedous capacity to inpire loyalty so I think that he could lead this into happening and that the power of all the combined, unified spells could be Voldemort's undoing.Harry certainly won't be going it alone. His friends will be right beside him. But in all the books so far, when one or more of Harry's friends has accompanied him into danger, he has always ended up going on alone. Harry was alone against Quirrelmort, alone in the Chamber, alone at the lakeside, alone in the graveyard, alone with Bellatrix in the Ministry of Magic, and alone with Snape as he fled the school (the last two examples are less clear cut than the first four). So I think he will be separated from his friends and that the final conflict will be just Harry and Voldemort.

but if the power is the love he inspires isn't that the same thing?

I don't know. Is the love you inspire the same as the love you personally have? It could be I guess.

Is the love you inspire the same as the love you personally have? It could be I guess.
I think it could be both, but in varying degrees, however. Platonic love is different than romantic love in my honest opinion. That's why I think that Ginny is going to be so vital in book 7.

I think the whole 'love' thing in terms of Voldy-destroying forces has more to do with caring with other's welfare before your own, even at risk to your own, not just warm fuzzy feelings about people.

I think the whole 'love' thing in terms of Voldy-destroying forces has more to do with caring with other's welfare before your own, even at risk to your own, not just warm fuzzy feelings about people.
Yes. Harry has already shown that he is willing to die to fight Voldemort, even as an 11 year old. This is something Voldemort, whose greatest fear is death, really cannot understand and I think it will give Harry an advantage. I don't think Harry will die in book 7 but I do think he will be willing to die if that is what it takes, and this will be important to the outcome.

I think the whole 'love' thing in terms of Voldy-destroying forces has more to do with caring with other's welfare before your own, even at risk to your own, not just warm fuzzy feelings about people.
I agree, I think it was this that caused Voldemort's failure to possess Harry in OotP. It was the love Harry felt for Sirius that appeared to cause Voldemort to stop his possession of Harry and flee the Ministry of Magic.

Sarapsys- exactly. Voldemort's ultimate reason for action has always been self preservation. Harry's reason for acting has always been the preservation of others.

I agree, I think it was this that caused Voldemort's failure to possess Harry in OotP. It was the love Harry felt for Sirius that appeared to cause Voldemort to stop his possession of Harry and flee the Ministry of Magic.
I think this incident is another foreshadowing of the ending. There are two things about Harry that Voldemort will never understand - his ability to love and his willingness to die. These things saved Harry in PS (via Lily) and in OotP so I'm sure they will defeat Voldemort completely in the end. Love is pure poison to Voldemort.

I find myself wondering if he will realize that it is a strength or if he will continue to run on instinct, only partially understanding why he tries something and why it works. He hasn't done a lot of introspection (the prefect badge in OotP is the only one that really stands out) but I think it will end up being important to him to do it. But, once again JK shows her brilliance as she realistically portrays Harry as unable/unwilling to view himself objectively most of the time.

I think this brand of love probably works better on instinct...it's not really something you can calculate, you know? "Hm, I've been thinking, and I've decided to put your welfare above my own, since I have this power of love." It's just a natural reaction for him. That's what makes it so powerful--it's his nature.

What I meant by that is will Harry realize that his compassion is what makes him stronger than Voldemort.

Ah, IC. In that case I agree :lol:

but if the power is the love he inspires isn't that the same thing?Is it love though or the heart that gives Harry is power as Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of PS/SS that it is the heart that is scared not Harry's lightening bolt scare.

I think the song pertaining in HBP:

'Oh, my poor heart, where has it gone?
It's left me for a spell...'

'... and now you've torn it quite apart
I'll thank you to give back my heart!'During PS/SS Harry's heart according to Albus is merely scared but by the time we get to HBP it is like the song says, torn quite apart due to terror.Terror tore at Harry's heart....Harry's love comes from the heart. Voldemort's hatred comes from his soul. Voldemort split his soul and in a way might be making Harry his equal by splitting Harry's heart.

Voldemort stated that 7 is a magical number. So what happens when Harry's heart is truely broken even just once? Each death adds pain to injury, each death scars and tears at Harry's heart more and more till eventually his heart will be torn apart.

Harry felt pain over the death of the following:

Lily,
James,
Cedric,
Sirius,
Dumbledore.

There are only two deaths left and each death tears at Harry's heart. At the moment Harry's heart is tearing but it does not seem to have split completely apart yet.

I think Harry will have a whole soul but a broken heart, a heart in two bits (a little bit like those love heart necklaces that you can get where you give one half of the heart to the person you care about and keep the other yourself).

Over all though I still think the song is relevant.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

Loss is a motivator for Harry, I think. It is partly the reason he pushes people away. It is partly the reason he feels such a great need to be the young man he is. I think it shall be the love for those he has lost, and those who continue to fight with him, which will win the war.


Yeah I agree with you, Harry gets more and more angry when he lose's someone he loves. This in turn makes him more determined in his quest to either evenge their death or go after Voldemort. Also the love from Ron and Hermione continually makes him feel better, knowing that they will be there with him all the way no matter how far he try's to push them away. I think maybe deep down he would feel dissapointed if they gave up easily when he tells them he wants to do it on his own.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

I think that his years with the Dursleys gave Harry a strong of justice vs. injustice. If the Dursleys had been more accepting and less overbearing, he might not have been quite as rebellious as he is. However, I can see both his parents in his response to this mistreatment. He is rebellious (James), but he has as a strong sense of justice/fairness (Lily).

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

I think that Harry's saving people thing will both get him into trouble and, in the end, be his saving grace. I think that he may be drawn into a dangerous trap at some point, but his willingness to sacrficice himself may be what is needed to defeat Voldemort. I don't think Harry will die, but he will come close.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

I often wish Harry would ask more questions since I, personally, want to hear the answers. Harry's curiousity seems to express itself freely enough when he doesn't have to confront adults. And when Dumbledore gave Harry license to ask questions, he did so. Harry's has always been curious about mysteries and things that seem out of place. He will benefit greatly from that.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Harry thinks well on his feet. He has managed by wit or dint of effort to get out of trouble even when his life was on the line. He will need that when he finally confronts Voldemort. He certainly won't be able to match Voldemort in magical knowledge or ability, but if he keeps his head, which he has done in the past, then he will survive.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

He lost his parents while still a baby. Harry has suffered more loss and pain than most kids his age. He has seen more horror than most adults. How many kids have nearly immortal, megalomanical, immensely powerful evil wizards trying to kill them? It was so poignant when Harry first learned who Sirius was, only to have to lose him, not once but twice. The first time he lost Sirius when he thought he would finally get away from the Dursleys. Then second time he lost Sirius permanently. Then he formed a bond with Dumbledore and lost him too. This could harden him, but I think it has only deepened his appreciation for the value of love.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

Harry is used to loss and pain. I don't think the loss of Dumbledore will affect his pureness of heart. Dumbledore's death will give him an added sense of determination. Here are a few examples of how Harry has shown his heart: he has been open and accepting of others, no matter how different or unpopular they are. He has stood up for his friends when they were under the heaviest of fire. Just look at the times Harry has defended Hagrid. Harry has shown his depth of heart every time he has run into the thick of danger to save someone.

Personal statement:

Despite the fact that Harry is an orphan, and his only remaining relatives are horrible, he has built a caring extended family with his friends at Hogwarts and the Weasley clan. I'm going to include Hagrid and Lupin in the self-made family. This also shows Harry's pureness of heart. He is able to form deep, caring relationships with a variety of people. This will be his secret strength when he confronts Voldemort--not only Harry's capacity to love, but the way others love Harry.

Harry is the polar opposite to Voldemort.

Harry is love--Voldemort is hate
Harry forms deep affectionate friendships--Voldemort enslaves his followers with fear and pain
Harry is fearless--Voldemort is a coward
Harry is selfless--Voldemort is selfish

I think that his years with the Dursleys gave Harry a strong of justice vs. injustice. If the Dursleys had been more accepting and less overbearing, he might not have been quite as rebellious as he is. However, I can see both his parents in his response to this mistreatment. He is rebellious (James), but he has as a strong sense of justice/fairness (Lily).
Well said. And this rebellion against injustice is one of Harry's strengths, especially given the task he has ahead of him. Bellatrix taunted Harry for his "righteous anger", but I can't help thinking that this will prove more effective than sadism in the long run. Righteous anger is what will keep him focused on his goal no matter how tough things get.Harry's curiousity seems to express itself freely enough when he doesn't have to confront adults. Yes, I think that goes back to "don't ask questions". Harry learned early on that adults will never help him and that sort of experience is hard to shake off completely.
Harry is love--Voldemort is hate
Harry forms deep affectionate friendships--Voldemort enslaves his followers with fear and pain
Harry is fearless--Voldemort is a coward
Harry is selfless--Voldemort is selfishWell said.

Harry learned early on that adults will never help him and that sort of experience is hard to shake off completely.
But he relies a lot on Dumbledore. He never questions any of Dumbledores actions or decisions (except in book 6) and even there the respect for Dumbledore is enough to make him focus on a more important goal. I mean the scene before going to the cave, when he is furious about finding out about Snape telling the prophecy to Voldemort, but he immediately changes the chip and follows Dumbledores indications to the cave.

But he relies a lot on Dumbledore. He never questions any of Dumbledores actions or decisions (except in book 6) and even there the respect for Dumbledore is enough to make him focus on a more important goal. I mean the scene before going to the cave, when he is furious about finding out about Snape telling the prophecy to Voldemort, but he immediately changes the chip and follows Dumbledores indications to the cave.
Yes, as adults who cared for Harry came into his life, he learned to trust them. But he rarely takes them into his confidence. He did go to Lupin in the Christmas holidays in HBP and in GoF and OotP he took (most of) his troubles to Sirius. Admittedly in OotP he wanted to go to an adult for help after he saw the vision of Sirius in the DoM, so that time it wasn't Harry's fault he had to go it alone. He remembered too late that Snape was also an ally.

Harry's surprisingly well-behaved towards authority figures given his history of persecution, actually. He's not nearly as rebellious as he could be. I'd like to think that is because of the influences in his life - Dumbledore, McGonagall, Sirius, Lupin - those who earned his respect. Perhaps part of that also comes from Lily, though? Or maybe Hermione's influence?

Harry's surprisingly well-behaved towards authority figures given his history of persecution, actually. He's not nearly as rebellious as he could be. I'd like to think that is because of the influences in his life - Dumbledore, McGonagall, Sirius, Lupin - those who earned his respect. Perhaps part of that also comes from Lily, though? Or maybe Hermione's influence?

I agree. Not only because of those influences, but Harry seems to naturally think about something before just accepting it (he doesn't even with Dumbledore). That's not rebelliousness but trusting his own council enough. I think that's a good thing because of how often Harry has no other choice but to rely on himself.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
Harry’s years with the Dursleys have vastly influenced who he is, I think. Those years made Harry very self-reliant, and I believe, a bit unwilling to ask others for help. I also think his time with the Dursleys - while it didn’t stifle his curiosity – stifled his instinct to ask questions. It is interesting to wonder if Harry would have been the same if his parents had lived, or if he’d lived with other people. If his parents had lived, I think Harry would have been much more emotionally stable, since he wouldn’t have had to go through losing his parents. But with the gaining of emotional stability, I wonder if his greatest strengths (ie bravery, selflessness) would have been developed quite as much as they are because of the experiences Harry was forced to go through. I do think they would have been there because I see them as being a part of Harry no matter what, but I don’t think they would have been developed to the degree that they are at present. If Harry had lived with another wizarding family, I think he might have grown up kind of spoiled – a “pampered prince”, to use Dumbledore’s words. The reason for this is that the surrogate family would know of his status as “The Boy Who Lived” and would undoubtedly treat him as such. So he’d have grown up knowing he was special. As for living in an orphanage, the result might have been similar to his years at the Dursleys, assuming his orphanage was like Tom Riddle’s.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
His “saving people thing” probably dates back to as early as the Troll incident in PS/SS. That was the very first time we see Harry stick his neck out for someone else, someone he barely knew, no less. I believe this is a strength, but as ComicBookWorm said, it’s a strength that often gets him into trouble (both in breaking the rules, and putting his life in danger). I strongly believe his willingness to save others might end up hurting him at first but then helping him, as he might have to face traps and snares along the way.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
as I mentioned above, I actually don’t think that Harry’s actual curiosity was stifled, only his willingness to ask questions (since he’s always been curious about his parents, where he got his scar, etc). Harry’s curiosity has helped him a great deal throughout the books, as he wonders about his past, about magic and the wizarding world in general, and about Voldemort. Now that he is asking more questions, he is getting more and more information, mainly from Dumbledore but also from other people as well. I don’t believe Harry will ever lose his curiosity even after Dumbledore’s death. I’m sure he’ll still be asking questions and wondering about things as he searches for the horcruxes.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strengths? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
Harry’s greatest strengths are bravery, selflessness, and improvisation (in dangerous situations). I believe Harry will have to overcome his urges to use Unforgivable curses when he becomes too angry. Though anger is a very human trait, I believe Harry needs to learn to control it a little better than he does in order to succeed. And he needs to learn to stop and think things through before acting at times. This is a trait that sometimes helps him greatly, but other times it gets him into trouble.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
James and Lily – Their deaths were really what made Harry want to go after Voldemort. They probably had the strongest influence on Harry because they were his true family.
Cedric – Cedric’s death was the first needless* death Harry witnessed, which likely showed Harry all over again just how cruel and cold Voldemort is.
Sirius – Like his parents’ deaths, losing Sirius was like losing a close family member. But Sirius’ death gave Harry strength of heart, as his love for Sirius made it impossible for Voldemort to possess him. Going forward I’m sure Sirius’ death will instill the same resolve to destroy Voldemort that his parents’ death gives him.
Dumbledore – Once again, losing Dumbledore was like losing a family member. However, this death makes Harry enraged against Snape rather than Voldemort. This loss turns Harry’s attention away from Voldemort, which I’m not sure is a good thing. But Harry seems to be focused on what he must do and it doesn’t seem like he’s going to actively seek out Snape rather than Voldemort.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what separates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
The most prominent example of Harry’s pureness of heart is the fact that he puts other people’s well-being above his own. But other examples include not wanting to use the Sorcerer’s Stone, giving Fred and George his prize money so they could live their dream, and being able to love others so deeply. I do believe Harry will retain his pureness of heart even in the face of the horcruxes. To me, his purity of heart is linked with his ability to love, so I believe he will retain it to the bitter end.

*What I mean by needless here is that Cedric was a civilian, he wasn’t fighting against Voldemort.

Yes, as adults who cared for Harry came into his life, he learned to trust them. But he rarely takes them into his confidence. He did go to Lupin in the Christmas holidays in HBP and in GoF and OotP he took (most of) his troubles to Sirius. Admittedly in OotP he wanted to go to an adult for help after he saw the vision of Sirius in the DoM, so that time it wasn't Harry's fault he had to go it alone. He remembered too late that Snape was also an ally.
Harry usually goes for help and in doing so trust the teacher. And in asking for help he does trust the teacher involved. Coincidentally Harry trusts someone he shouldn’t trust or the teachers involved are unwilling or unavailable.

But Harry’s first instinct is to ask for help, circumstances force him however to do it alone.

In PS he went to McGonagall, but was refused.
In COS he went for Lockhart, but was wrong to trust him in this.
In POA he didn’t went for help when Ron was caught (there was no time) but he did trust Dumbledore to help in the hospital.
In GOF he went with Moody, but was wrong to trust him.
In OOTP he went looking for McGonagall, only to find her unavailable.
In HBP he went for adults when he overheard the conversation at Christmas and he went for Dumbledore after he heard Trelawney’s story. Only when Dumbledore was unwilling to take his warnings serious he asked Ron and Hermione to take care.

It is really amazing how JKR writes those books. Harry by nature asks an adult for help but almost every time he has to do it alone. This is really Harry’s saving thing: when adults are unwilling or unable to stand up Harry takes action. Even though this has a downsize (Sirius’ death) it is Harry’s great strength: almost always it results in a positive result.

One thing I forgot to put in the opening questions was Harry's instincts. It used to be that most of his theories were wrong - Snape as the Villain in SS/PS, Tom Riddle being trustworthy in CoS etc. But in HBP he really comes into his own in discerning the truth. Any ideas on how this came about and whether this will grow in Book 7?I am not sure I quit agree with this. Harry’s instincts are usually pretty good, it is on the finer points he misses the plot. In PS Harry thought correctly that someone was stealing the stone, that he had a good chance of succeeding and that Voldemort was somehow involved. Only the real culprit was wrong. And this pattern continues in the books. In COs for instance he figured out the entrance of the chamber and with Hermione’s help what he would find there. Only the real culprit was a mystery to him. If Harry tries to find out what happens he solves a good lot of things but never the plot entirely. POA is of course an exception, but on the other hand Harry is not actively trying to solve a puzzle in that book.

HBP is not much of an exception on this case. He correctly assumes Draco is up to something but he can’t find what and how. But his instinct, Draco is really trying to do something for Voldemort, is correct. And while in other books the real culprit remains a puzzle for him in HBP the real task remains a mystery for Harry. Same difference really.

But Harry’s first instinct is to ask for help, circumstances force him however to do it alone.

In PS he went to McGonagall, but was refused.
In COS he went for Lockhart, but was wrong to trust him in this.
In POA he didn’t went for help when Ron was caught (there was no time) but he did trust Dumbledore to help in the hospital.
In GOF he went with Moody, but was wrong to trust him.
In OOTP he went looking for McGonagall, only to find her unavailable.
In HBP he went for adults when he overheard the conversation at Christmas and he went for Dumbledore after he heard Trelawney’s story. Only when Dumbledore was unwilling to take his warnings serious he asked Ron and Hermione to take care.

It is really amazing how JKR writes those books. Harry by nature asks an adult for help but almost every time he has to do it alone. This is really Harry’s saving thing: when adults are unwilling or unable to stand up Harry takes action. Even though this has a downsize (Sirius’ death) it is Harry’s great strength: almost always it results in a positive result.
You are right, of course! Poor kid! All those years with the Dursleys and his significant adults are still not there for him when he needs them! Although obviously this is mostly because it's important to the plot. It is a literary convention that young hero(es) have to manage alone, without adult intervention. Just look as all the stuff the Famous Five got up to with no friendly adult within miles! And Lyra and Will in His Dark Materials.

My opening statement: Harry is a boy with compassion. We see how badly treated he is at the Dursley's but as soon as he gets to know Ron, he feels a bond with him. He is kind and understanding about Ron having hand-me-downs and no money. He is also kind to Neville, a rather lost boy type who seems to need a friend and some encouragement, too. He was kind to Luna and even invited her to Slughorn's party. I like this side of Harry.

He is also incredibly brave. He stands up for what he knows is right (Umbridge). He does not allow himself to be controlled by the Imperious curse. He is determined to learn how to make a Patronus so he won't let his Quidditch team down. He helped Hagrid get rid of Norbert. He rescued Hermione from the Troll in SS/PS.(his first "saving people thing") He works hard to prevent Voldemort's return by saving the stone. He even understands some of what Snape felt when he saw the Pensieve memory. And he felt sorry for Draco, too.

I have always liked Harry. He has always been my favorite.

Although obviously this is mostly because it's important to the plot.
I disagree. I think it is important to Harry's development as a character. Harry has learned to deal with these things on his own (as he will probably have to in the end), which has given him two things: self sufficiency and an appreciation for those who can and do help. I believe that it is important that he have both those things in order to face Voldemort.

My opening statement: Harry is a boy with compassion. We see how badly treated he is at the Dursley's but as soon as he gets to know Ron, he feels a bond with him. He is kind and understanding about Ron having hand-me-downs and no money. He is also kind to Neville, a rather lost boy type who seems to need a friend and some encouragement, too. He was kind to Luna and even invited her to Slughorn's party. I like this side of Harry.

He is also incredibly brave. He stands up for what he knows is right (Umbridge). He does not allow himself to be controlled by the Imperious curse. He is determined to learn how to make a Patronus so he won't let his Quidditch team down. He helped Hagrid get rid of Norbert. He rescued Hermione from the Troll in SS/PS.(his first "saving people thing") He works hard to prevent Voldemort's return by saving the stone. He even understands some of what Snape felt when he saw the Pensieve memory. And he felt sorry for Draco, too.

I have always liked Harry. He has always been my favorite.

The traits of a true Gryffindor. You've summed up Harry pretty well there.The things he doesn't are always for himself, he does take into concideration people's feelings. You mentioned him inviting Luna to Slughorn's party, I also recall him wanting to help her find her stuff at the end of Ootp. He was feeling depressed about Sirius, but still felt sorry for Luna and offered to help her.

You are right, of course! Poor kid! All those years with the Dursleys and his significant adults are still not there for him when he needs them! Although obviously this is mostly because it's important to the plot. It is a literary convention that young hero(es) have to manage alone, without adult intervention. Just look as all the stuff the Famous Five got up to with no friendly adult within miles! And Lyra and Will in His Dark Materials.It does make nice plots of course, but I think there is a little bit more to that. For plot reasons alone JKR could have written Harry differently, like a boy who doesn’t ask for help because he learned in his past (Dursleys) that adults couldn’t be trusted. And even though this view of Harry is even adopted by some fans this is not how JKR choose to write him.

JKR basically writes character driven books with mystery elements, not mystery plots with character elements. This means she starts with what is logically for the Harry character to do and then adopts the plot to fit in.
She chooses to have Harry as someone who recognises when something ought to be done, who usually decides on a prudent action (get a teacher) and when that doesn’t work decides to stand up himself. This all makes him wise beyond his years and makes him well equipped to take on Voldemort in the last book. If he just was a boy who never asked for help in the first place it would become a little to unrealistic for him to succeed. This asking for help character trait is the same character trait which enables him to listen to the lessons Dumbledore taught him, its part of Harry.
I disagree. I think it is important to Harry's development as a character. Harry has learned to deal with these things on his own (as he will probably have to in the end), which has given him two things: self sufficiency and an appreciation for those who can and do help. I believe that it is important that he have both those things in order to face Voldemort.Exactly what I mean and put much more concise.

And what I like most about Harry is despite the fact that he is an almost unrealistic superhero he is still 100% human. And despite Harry’s flaws he stands for the great power of love in a Christian way without ever having the comparison made directly.

She chooses to have Harry as someone who recognises when something ought to be done, who usually decides on a prudent action (get a teacher) and when that doesn’t work decides to stand up himself. This all makes him wise beyond his years and makes him well equipped to take on Voldemort in the last book. If he just was a boy who never asked for help in the first place it would become a little to unrealistic for him to succeed. That's true - it shows a development of his character, but the same time I agree that it's hard to decide in this case, where the character development begins and where JK just couldn't do anything else without letting Minerva McGonagall solving all the adventures. ;)
I like that JK makes a great job with hardly adding informations just to developing a current plot. Most the time all single events and actions of the characters have a reason - this is just very well done. It's just that I also agree here with anabel that she also had to find a way to develop the whole story around her hero.


And what I like most about Harry is despite the fact that he is an almost unrealistic superhero he is still 100% human.I agree 100%. He's as normal as he (actually not 'cause of his history in Privet Drive) could be. He's an awesome hero.

I think one of my favorite things about Harry and the way Jo writes him is when something's going on, or someone says something, and he has 'a sudden startling vision' of something hilarious, cuz I have moments like that all the time. He's just so detailed. It's rather incredible. It's such a little detail on the surface, but I feel like it adds so much.

One of my favorite Harry moments:

Lockhart: Just do what I did.
Harry: What, drop my wand?

(The Dueling Club, CoS, still my favorite chapter for many, many reasons.)

Harry Potter: I love Harry, everything about his character and his strengths as a person. He has had so much more to deal with than any teenager should have too. He has definatly annoyed me at times, but everyone has annoyed me at one point or another. He is human after all. After all he has been through it's a wonder he is still so grounded and all I can put to that is his choices in his friends. Ron and Hermione have helped make him who he is, along with the Weasley's and Dumbledore.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now?
This is the question I really wanted to answer.
My word the Dursley's made Harry who he is today. I think Harry knew right from wrong anyway and saw it in all it's glory while living with the Dursley's. It's hard to tell if they would have treated Dudley the same way if Harry wasn't there, or if they were doing it to show they didn't care about him at all. They took him in, but were not going to show any affection. I agree that children should never be spoilt, although I am not a mother myself yet, I do have little cousins and see what my relatives have done to them by letting them grow up too fast and have everything they want. I think that's what saved Harry.

Would he be the same person if his parents had lived?
I think Harry still would have been the same person had his parents lived, probebly not as troubled, but definatly still a strong boy who is able to love and I'm sure Lilly and James would have brought him up with manners, he would not have been over indulged like Dudley.

If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?
I'm not sure about this one. Again it comes down to decisions. Not everyone one who grows up in an Orphange turn into pure evil. Really Harry had it worse, even at an Orphange they still look after you and feed your properly and educate you. Harry didn't even have that.
As for the other wizarding family He would have had it alot easier, but I don't know that he would have been the same person. I agree with Dumbledore that it was better for him to grow up away from being "the boy who lived"

I'm going to answer the rest of the quetions.
Inkwolf, that was a great moment :lol:

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?
We first see it when he goes to and takes Ron to saver Hermione from the troll in Ps/Ss. It's both as we have seen. It is strength because it shows what type of a compasionate person he is, willing to save people ahead of himself. However we also saw in Ootp what can happen, it makes him vunerable. I'm unsure whether it will help him or hurt him in book 7. I don't think anything will stop him trying to prtect the people he loves though.

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books?
Curiosty killed the cat, no truer words were spoken. I think it's great that Harry started asking questions, that's how you learn things and grow into a adult.Sometimes the curitsity is good, sometimes not. There is no way I would have put myself into Snape's pensive, of course his coming back, however that's Harry, he wants to know all he can. Sometimes he doesn like what he finds though.
Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?
I'm sure he will ask alot of questions along the way, Hermione will be there to help with that. However Ron and Hermione will be there to give guidence as well, so he may be curious about things, but their presence will come in handing with helping him.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs?
His greatest strengths are love, bravery and I believe that he is an extremely talented wizard. The things he has been able to achieve is amazing. I don't believe that he is as powerful as Voldemort, but he certainly has the potential to be.
What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?
Probebely his saving people thing. Voldemort will again try to use that against Harry. It wil be hard for him, but I think it's something he needs to rise above if he is going to defeat Voldemort.


5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?
Harry has suffered alot in that he losses the people that he has grown to love and respect. This is just going to fuel his anger and make him more determined in his quest. I think they have made him a much stronger person, loosing so many loved ones in such a short period of time can turn anyone to drink or depression, but Harry seems to rise from it, he becomes a different person.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart?
Harry puts his needs behind everybody else's. His a kind and caring person who thinks about his friends and how he has hurt them, or if he has hurt them. He feels horrible when he believe he was the reason Sirius died.
Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?
Of course he will, he will be accompained by his 2 best friends and he will still want to protect them and put them first. Nothing will stop him caring about Hermione or the Weasley's.

I'd like to point out something about Harry that has not been mentioned so far but it is one of the things I like the most about him - his sense of humour :D

His sarcasm and dark humour are hilarious (one of my favorite lines in the whole series is in HBP, when he tells Snape "There's no need to call me Sir, Professor"). But I have laughed out loud at some of the imagery, which of course comes from Harry. The way he associates some characters with animals, for example. Situations he imagines, even his dreams... I also think it is not a coincidence that Harry's best friend is Ron, who has the funniest lines in the stories.

What would you say is the importance of humour in Harry's life? How has it helped him to cope with everything that happens to him and how has it helped him to survive?

What would you say is the importance of humour in Harry's life? How has it helped him to cope with everything that happens to him and how has it helped him to survive?

I think it's helped him keep his cool during times when he's been stressed. There is a definite upsurge in jokes made by Harry in OotP, and I think it has to do with him trying not to let his anxiety and sorrows get to him.

My favorite Harry-isms (paraphrased):

"Watching the news? Again!?"
"Well, it changes every day, you see."

"Not so brave at night, are you?"
"This is night, Diddy-kins. That's what we call it when it gets all dark like this."

"You're dead, Potter."
"Funny. You'd think I'd stop walking around."

:lol: I love it when Harry comes out with one of those. ;)

Harry seems to have gained a lot of his sense of humor in the later books. When he was younger, he was a lot more passive, probably due to the treatment he got from the Dursleys.

"You're dead, Potter."
"Funny. You'd think I'd stop walking around."

:lol: I love it when Harry comes out with one of those. ;)I love that one, too :lol: Harry can come back with a witty retort. It is one of the things about him that I really like.

I'd like to point out something about Harry that has not been mentioned so far but it is one of the things I like the most about him - his sense of humourYou're right, I too love Harry's sarcastic humor. It does help us and Harry to bring things into perspective sometimes when things are getting too dark, or when Dudley is making a lame dig at him.

I had a thought which may or may not be completely obvious as so many of my thoughts are. Do you think there's a connection between the pure heart and the "saving people thing"?

Yep. I think that Harry's capacity for empathy, caring, friendship, and selflessness are all part of his pureness of heart. What defines Harry's heart is all that makes him who he is. That's why there isn't a "love power," so much as the capacity to be good and decent to his core.

I had a thought which may or may not be completely obvious as so many of my thoughts are. Do you think there's a connection between the pure heart and the "saving people thing"?
Yes, I believe that all these things are connected. To be pure at heart is described when Harry sees the stone in the Mirror.

It's a symbol of his will to help in a selfless act. The saving people thing is similar. He wants to help without getting in return.

I also believe that the whole love aspect is highly connected to that. Love is selfless. Saving people is selfless. Pureness of heart is selfless.

It's about loving others and loving life more than the own life. This just reminded me that JKR says somewhere that the clues to book 7 can be found in christian believes, and actually this is one of the pillars.

I had a thought which may or may not be completely obvious as so many of my thoughts are. Do you think there's a connection between the pure heart and the "saving people thing"?
I believe the "saving people thing" is Harry doing what he sees as right, regardless of the cost. I don't see that as having a pure heart, although I can see a relationship there. To me, his pure heart is what allows him to feel sympathy for someone like Tom Riddle and Kreacher. I don't think he is all the way there, yet, but I think he will get there.

To me, his pure heart is what allows him to feel sympathy for someone like Tom Riddle and Kreacher. I don't think he is all the way there, yet, but I think he will get there.
Being able to feel pity might be an aspect of pureness of heart but it goes beyond that.
Dumbledore relates the pure heart to the ability to get the stone, just the stone, out of the mirror of erised. Here we have Harry seeing not something for himself but to protect other people. I think this is a clear link to the saving people thing, though not exactly the same. When the chips are down Harry is able to risk everything to save. Since Dumbledore sees this in the 11 year old Harry and comments on this ability in HBP Dumbledore at least think Harry is completely there:
You remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of eleven, when you stared in a mirror that reflected your heart’s desire, and it showed you only the way to thwart Lord Voldemort, and not immortality or riches.

It seems to be that Harry instinctively chooses for the greater good, when it really matters he almost automatically stands for what is right. And saving people is usually the right thing to do, it follows from a pureness of heart.

I think basically what it comes down to is putting the welfare of others and the greater good above your own personal safety or desires. If that's not pureness of heart, I don't know what is.

Harry seems to have gained a lot of his sense of humor in the later books. When he was younger, he was a lot more passive, probably due to the treatment he got from the Dursleys.

Yeah I agree with that. It's more sarcasim to me, but it's still really funny. I also liked in Ootp when Luna said:
"You're Harry Potter" she added
"I know I am" said Harry
Neville chuckled. :lol:

Being able to feel pity might be an aspect of pureness of heart but it goes beyond that.
Hmmm, perhaps this is a difference of semantics, but I see sympathy and pity as two different things. I don't think Harry pities Voldemort, but I do believe he sympathizes with some aspects of Tom Riddle. It is important because it shows that Harry can see beyond what Riddle becomes (Voldemort), to the child that Riddle was, a child who lived a life not much different than Harry, himself.

I agree with you that Harry seeing the family he'd lost, or the way to defeat Voldemort is an indication of his pure heart, as well.

Yep. I think that Harry's capacity for empathy, caring, friendship, and selflessness are all part of his pureness of heart. What defines Harry's heart is all that makes him who he is. That's why there isn't a "love power," so much as the capacity to be good and decent to his core.I think that sums Harry's pure heart up pretty well. I think the "saving people thing" goes a bit further than that, though. Harry really seems to think that it's his responsibility to save people. Mostly that's down to circumstances.

He spent a whole year investigating the Philosopher's Stone and when he finally realised that Voldemort was moving in on it, and McGonagall didn't believe his story, he saw no option but to go after it himself. What started off as genuine curiosity sparked by his first trip to Gringotts with Hagrid, ended up as a battle against Voldemort, which was more personal for Harry than for anyone else, because he knew Voldemort had tried to kill him and would try to kill him again if he returned to power. I'm not sure that Harry was "saving people" here. In his eyes, it was he himself who was under threat, and he wasn't going to sit around waiting for Voldemort to return if there was something he could do to prevent it.

In CoS he was the only one equipped to discover the secret of the Chamber, because he was the only Parselmouth in the school. He tried to get Lockhart's help to rescue Ginny, but ended up going it alone. And we know that Diary Riddle specifically targeted Harry and wanted to lure him down to the Chamber.

In PoA Harry saw Ron being dragged down a tunnel by a large black dog and instinctively followed - that's not hard to understand.

In GoF he saved Gabrielle Delacour quite unnecessarily, but unlike the other contestants, Harry is by this stage used to saving people from real dangers and under pressure was unable to realise that this danger wasn't real too. He couldn't get it into his head that this was only a "game" and not for real, although the dangers of the TriWizard Championship were mostly real enough.

In OotP, Harry again tried to get help, and he also tried to leave his friends behind, but they insisted on coming with him. This time his instinct to save people had tragic consequences, although he did accidentally succeed in destroying the prophecy and thwarting Voldemort, and forced Voldemort to show himself, thus ending Umbridge's tyranny at Hogwarts, and allowing Dumbledore to return.

So Harry's history with Voldemort and his being a Parselmouth are strong factors in his "saving people thing". Harry is uniquely equipped for this and circumstances tend to force him into it, not least Voldemort's determination to lure Harry to him. And his unselfishness and courage make it natural for him to risk his own life to save others.

I think it would be hard to have a "saving people thing" if one had a hard selfish heart. Such people might save others to look good, but not if it put them in danger (think Slytherin).

But just because one is "pure of heart" does not mean that they're going to save everyone - because that's hard, which is why people like Harry are so rare. for instance, Cedric definately had a lot of "pure heart" qualities, but we still don't see him trying to save all the other champions - only Harry did that.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Riddle?

Harry's formative years with the dursleys shaped Harry in a number of ways. The most obvious being Harry's ablity to empathise with other characters who have been treated badly or even worse than himself. It's also taught him how to value the important things in life over things that are less important i.e. money, he never had any until Hagrid took him to Gringotts. Harry may well have been a diferent person had his parents lived as he would'nt have been exposed the muggle world in the way he has been. In fact i think it would have been the other way round, he'd be fully aware of the wizarding world and less so of the muggle world. Harry could have followed the same path as Riddle if he had been sent to an orphanage. However Harry's childhood was just as bad as Riddles was. So in the end i don't think it would have made that much of a difference.


2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

That would be in the first book, when he tells Hermione to go back to Ron and to get Dumbledore, while Harry goes onto face Qurriel/Voldemort, though he was expecting to find Snape. I think it's a strength which i guess takes over Harry. The only flaw in that would be that Harry lets his emotions rule him, and leaves logic for the likes of Hermione. But Hermione can be quite illogical when her emotions are running high (attacking Ron with the birds in the half blood prince).

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

Harry's curiosity has served him extremely well through the series. From figuring out the chamber of secrets to solving who really betrayed his parents in POA. I don't believe Harry has lost his curiosity, i just think that he will be a bit more cautious and less likely to stick his hand in something like he used to. It will return while he hunts for the horcruxes as it will most likely enable him to solve the puzzles that will probably surround the location of each Horcrux. He needs to have a sense of curisosity to help him piece the puzzle of defeating Voldemort together (the horcruxes may just be the first piece of the puzzle).

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Harry's greatest strengths are his ablity to love, seeing the good in people where others probably would'nt (he is Dumbledore like in that regard) and the fact that according to Dumbledore he is still pure of heart and that his soul is untarnished and whole. Which will be an advantage over Voldemort.
Harry's instinct to rush off into a situation with unknown factors will have to be reigned in. I think he'll need to be a bit more conserative in his approach towards Voldemort. He may well have to let people face the Death Eaters and Voldemort on their own, so that he has a fighting chance in his final showdown with Voldemort.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

The loss of his parents had a very profound effect on Harry, it basically shaped him as a person without having the influence of his parents. Sirius was his connection to the outside world and the person who showed him what being brave and reckless is all about. Lupin gave him invalueable DADA training, and that will be of importance to Harry's failure or success. Hagrid is like an uncle you embrassed about, but respect anyway. Hagrid has enforced Harry's ablity to accept people for who they are, not what they are i.e. in hagrids case the fact that he is a half giant. I've mentioned those two characters as Harry would be impacted by their deaths on a large scale. Though Harry has lost Lupin in the sense that he does not see much of him and that Hagrid will probably be far away from Harry, when he needs hagrids useful advice.
Dumbledore has been training Harry since the very first book. He has shown Harry to be brave in the face of true evil and that everyone is prone to making mistakes, however old or wise they appear to be. Dumbledore's belief in Harry will be what pushes Harry forwards in his quest to defeat Lord Voldemort.

6. Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

One example of Harry's pure of heart status would be when he freed Dobby from the Malfoy's. Harry did not need to do it, but he saw that Dobby was suffering and would be a lot happier with freedom. I believe Harry's ablity to love will protect him from following the easy path that the death eaters and Voldemort himself take. It will be hard on Harry, but i'm sure Harry will want to make his parents, Sirius and especially Dumbledore proud of him for defeating Voldemort on his terms and not having to descend to Voldemort's level to win the war. Harry will suffer losses along the way on his hunt for the Horcruxes but they will make him that more determined to defeat Voldemort.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? They have made him who he is. If he had been mollycoddled, he wouldn't be the same, if he had been treated a hero, he would be like malfoy, no, he is a normal boy, though not as loved as he should have been. Petunia may not be Harrys first choice, she has allowed Vernon to influence her to starve him, let Vernon and Dud belittle him, work him nearly to death, and neglected him in general, but she has looked after his safety at all times. She stands up to her family for him, knows whats at stake, and keeps him close to her. Shes brought him up to have manners, behave properly, and taught him to be wary of anything or anyone strange(if you think about this, this is a pretty cluey thing for Petunia to teach a toddler). Petunia has kept him grounded and normal.

Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? I don't think so, he would have been more confident, more sure of himself, more content to let others fix the injustices of the world.

If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? He would have been mollycoddled and fussed over, there would have been two malfoys, or at least, shown some of the self importance and arrogance his father showed.

If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?I think he would have thrived. He wouldn't have been lonely, and he would have lots of friends. I can see a scene where they are all out the front waving him off to school, happy for him.

2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing?Hermione and the troll

Is this a strength or a flaw? It is neither, it is just Harry, I wouldn't expect anything less of him.

Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?It will probably help Ron and Hermione, but be a detriment to himself (and Hermione and Rons mental health!)

3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Living with the Dursleys has taught him to immediately recognise anything abnormal. When he is away from the Dursleys, he is free to hunt down and investigate the abnormal things.

Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes? He will never lose it, it is too ingrained in him.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? The ability to see people as they truly are. If you look at the books, his first assessment of people is always spot on.
What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort? He will have to believe in himself and his power of love.

5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now? They have made him stronger and more determined to get the bad guy.

6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? His saving people thing for one. The way he treats his peers and his enemies, His willingness to go to any lengths to help someone, be it visiting spiders or basilisks, fight professors (he thought snape was after stone in 1), fight werewolves to help friends, etc. You may say these are brave, but they are done with the best of intentions, pure thoughts of helping others. Also, his truce with the Dursleys, he knows how they've treated him, but still does not act like the average teenager and go around yelling at them, but is usually polite, well mannered, and helpful. I think I'm trying to say that he always has others best interests at heart, where LV only has his own at heart.
Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore? Of course he will. He is an extraordinary person. How many times has he been angry with his mates, but still kept mum so he wouldn't upset them, or been in some ordeal to emerge and have to deal with someone elses problems, He will not lose it, its just in him.

Today in my car (traffic jam) another thing occured to me:

I like Harry because he is the one who will get us rid of Voldemort. He is the one capable of this. And if I was in the wizarding world, that alone would be enough to support him 100 % :)

Today in my car (traffic jam) another thing occured to me:

I like Harry because he is the one who will get us rid of Voldemort.

Yes! Down with Lord Voldemort and his blasted traffic jams! We really have had to tolerate his insidious traffic long enough... :lol:

Seriously, though, it's a nasty job for poor Harry to be stuck with that task.

Yeah, I'm proud of Harry because he accepted such a hard task! This part made me put the book down and just love Harry :

It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. Some people, perhaps, would say that there was little to choose between the two ways, but Dumbledore knew - and so do I, thought Harry, with a rush of fierce pride, and so did my parents - that there was all the difference in the world.

:love:

And I'll just list all my favorite Harry quotes (I have a feeling I did this already, but meh I don't care. :lol:)


"Pity you can't attach an extra arm to yours [broom], Malfoy. Then it could catch the Snitch for you."
~~~
"I realised I can’t shut myself away or crack up. It could be me next, couldn’t it? But if it is, I’ll make sure I take as many Death Eaters with me as I can and Voldemort too, if I can manage it."
~~~
"And they'd [the Death Eaters] love to have me," said Harry sarcastically. "We'd be best pals if they didn't keep trying to do me in."
~~~
"An Unbreakable Vow?" said Ron, looking stunned. "Nah, he can’t have.... Are you sure?"
"Yes I’m sure," said Harry. "Why, what does it mean?"
"Well, you can’t break an Unbreakable Vow..."
"I’d worked that much out for myself, funnily enough."
~~~

I'm beginning to think Harry's hero complex (saving people thing) was first evidenced in Chapter 2 of PS/SS, the Vanishing Glass, when he freed the giant boa constrictor from the zoo.

Come to think of it, what happened to that snake? Is there a thread on it somewhere? He said he was heading to Brazil, but how could a boa constrictor get from England to Brazil?

Come to think of it, what happened to that snake? Is there a thread on it somewhere? He said he was heading to Brazil, but how could a boa constrictor get from England to Brazil?
By boat? I don't think Harry knew he was saving the snake, but it's nice to see that he was saving people/animals even then!

By boat? I don't think Harry knew he was saving the snake, but it's nice to see that he was saving people/animals even then!
Well he has shown that he not only saves humans but also magical intelligent creatures (Dobby in CoS). ;)

Yeah, Dobby is a very clear example. I think Harry would save Kreecher if he could, too. Maybe, after Voldemort is defeated, Harry will be able to free Kreecher, or just send him back to Grimmauld Place to live there alone with the crazy portrait.

He saved Norbert in PS - or was he really saving Hagrid?

Both Hagrid, Norbert and himself...he didn't want Hagrid to get in trouble, and he wanted that dragon gotten rid of ASAP, because he knew Malfoy had seen him. He only kept out of trouble because the dragon was long gone by the time Malfoy tried to appeal to McGonagoll about the detentions in the Forest.

I've idly wondered what kind of snake Nagini is. The largest venomous snake in Europe is the blunt-nosed viper and tops out at 80" and is only found on 4 of the Greek isles. A photo gives us the arrow shaped head.
Think Harry will have any controll over Nagini if he needs to? Or will Voldemorts control be total?

Yeah, Dobby is a very clear example. I think Harry would save Kreecher if he could, too. Maybe, after Voldemort is defeated, Harry will be able to free Kreecher, or just send him back to Grimmauld Place to live there alone with the crazy portrait.

He saved Norbert in PS - or was he really saving Hagrid?I think that this is symptomatic of his saving people thing. His compassion extends beyond other witches and wizards.

I've idly wondered what kind of snake Nagini is. The largest venomous snake in Europe is the blunt-nosed viper and tops out at 80" and is only found on 4 of the Greek isles. A photo gives us the arrow shaped head.
And there are no snakes in the world (as far as I know) whose fangs can splinter human ribs! Nagini is definitely a magical creature. There is a school of thought that she is a young basilisk who hasn't yet developed her killing stare, or that she is part basilisk. After all, the young Tom had access to a Basilisk to breed from. I know a true Basilisk can only be raised from a rooster's egg, but if you can have a half-giant, I suspect that a half-Basilisk is also possible. But wait a minute - this is completely off-topic! There used to be a Nagini thread but it seems to have been deleted. I only found The LINK between Lily, Nagini, and the Horcruxes - Hufflepuff's cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=92974&highlight=nagini) and Significance to Mr. Weasley being bitten by Nagini? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=92455&highlight=nagini).
Think Harry will have any controll over Nagini if he needs to? Or will Voldemorts control be total?Well, Parseltongue has to come in useful somehow. It's way too interesting a skill to be confined to the one book (CoS).

Maybe Harry will save Nagini - and the snake he released from the Zoo in PS was foreshadowing?

Well, Parseltongue has to come in useful somehow. It's way too interesting a skill to be confined to the one book (CoS).

Maybe Harry will save Nagini - and the snake he released from the Zoo in PS was foreshadowing?
However we don't know yet if Nagini is like the Basilisk and only obey's Voldemort.

I've often wondered if the boa he released in SS/PS would come back and help Harry with Nagini. Obviously Fawkes would be helpful in a circumstance like that as well.

Maybe we could steer this back to Harry and the development of his character?

The fact that Harry performed an innocent (and unintentional) kindness to a boa does work to reveal Harry's character. Harry has been kind to Dobby, and even Kreacher. All the incidental acts of bravery or kindness that Harry has performed not only show his character, but many of them may turn out to be beneficial to him in the end.

And it also shows his innate decency. He doesn't care who or what it is (except maybe for Acromantulas), his first reaction is to be friendly and open. He also immediately tries to be helpful. Those are examples of his big heart.

He doesn't care who or what it is (except maybe for Acromantulas), his first reaction is to be friendly and open.
Even with the Acromantulas. Even if he was scared, he had a quite polite conversation with Aragog in the forest (until that one told his children to 'help themselves' :lol: )

Another example for this is the Deathday party, and that he keeps his word by going to a party to be nice to Nick, even if he didn't really want to go there.

This has probably been mentioned before, but...
I'm always a little irked when Harry is accused of "acting the hero" in the books. He never sets out to be a hero. He was scared to death that something terrible was going to happen if every last person wasn't saved from the mermaids; he thought Sirius was going to be killed any moment by Voldemort. He was just trying to do what was right.

That's right, pegasus, Harry acts like a hero because it's his personality - not because he's putting on show.

I was reading the first task in GoF last night. It occurred to me that he was respecting the dragon. Krum had injured his dragon and caused the loss of dragon eggs. But Harry never harmed the dragon (the movie doesn't count :lol:). He used a simple trick to get it to lift off the eggs for a moment.

And it also shows his innate decency. He doesn't care who or what it is (except maybe for Acromantulas), his first reaction is to be friendly and open. He also immediately tries to be helpful. Those are examples of his big heart.
Good point. While Draco, for example, might torment helpless animals or magical creatures, Harry meets them with interest and respect.Another example for this is the Deathday party, and that he keeps his word by going to a party to be nice to Nick, even if he didn't really want to go there.True. Although I think he was hoping to sneak away early and grab some dessert in the Great Hall, he still missed out on a feast in order to be kind to Nick. Harry really is a very unselfish person.

One thing I can't help but notice is how Harry refused to disclose that he had seen Snape's worst memory until Snape killed Dumbledore. I can't figure this one out. Was it because he was still disgusted by his father's actions? Or did he really feel that Snape deserved to keep that private?

I've also noticed that since the books are written in third person limited omniscient, almost always focussing on Harry, that the reader tends to come off a little biased. Passing judgement on people seems to be one of Harry's few negative traits.

It also took me awhile to notice that Harry has been pretty brave even before he learned he was a wizard. When the Dursleys were trying to get him NOT to come to the zoo with Dudley, he suggested he could stay home alone. The narrative says that he was thinking of playing Dudley's computer and watching Dudley's TV in this alone time. That takes a bit of guts in such an abusive home...

One thing I can't help but notice is how Harry refused to disclose that he had seen Snape's worst memory until Snape killed Dumbledore. I can't figure this one out. Was it because he was still disgusted by his father's actions? Or did he really feel that Snape deserved to keep that private?

Well, he couldn't very well discuss it without making his father, Sirius and Lupin look like jerks. :p


I can't help feeling that with all this discussion of how caring and noble and unselfish and perfect Harry is, people are missing an entire side of the character. What about the Harry who decided that the Heir of Slytherin must OF COURSE be his own personal worst enemy, the Harry who conspired to steal materials to make an illicit potion to spy on that person (with no proof or evidence at all) and who accomplished the theft by endangering the safety of his entire class? (Snape claims Neville's badly-made potiion will most likely kill Trevor, and Harry throws a firecracker into GOYLE'S potion pot, splashing everyone on the SLYTHERIN side of the room. GOYLE, the stupidest kid of the year. How could Harry know that potion wouldn't burn holes in everyone? He didn't know. He didn't think. It's debatable that he cared.)

My point is, Harry is hardly the saintly Boy Scout they make him out to be in the movies. He is in and out of trouble, and not always with the most altruistic reasons. He is a character with depth, with a good side and a bad side, and anyone who tries to whitewash his darker side isn't doing the books or the character justice. Tom Sawyer would never have been any fun if he was a walking angel, and either would Harry.

My point is, Harry is hardly the saintly Boy Scout they make him out to be in the movies. He is in and out of trouble, and not always with the most altruistic reasons. He is a character with depth, with a good side and a bad side, and anyone who tries to whitewash his darker side isn't doing the books or the character justice. Tom Sawyer would never have been any fun if he was a walking angel, and either would Harry.


I'll agree with this. If Harry were perfect he would be a rather boring hero. His flaws and his mistakes are part of who he is. His rash impulsiveness and his failure to consider the ramifications of his actions are certainly character flaws.

However, one good thing about Harry is that he tries to fix his mistakes when he makes them. When he led the DA into Voldemort's trap his first prioirity was to get his friends out of danger rather than himself. I don't think we can expect anyone to be perfect but I do think that Harry tries to attone for his mistakes which is as much as we can ask of him.

One thing I can't help but notice is how Harry refused to disclose that he had seen Snape's worst memory until Snape killed Dumbledore. I can't figure this one out. Was it because he was still disgusted by his father's actions? Or did he really feel that Snape deserved to keep that private?
I think Harry found SWM traumatic on several levels and I don't believe he would have told anyone even if he didn't know that Snape would be (even more) dreadfully angry with him if he did! He was deeply shocked, not least by his own feelings of pity for Snape. So yes, I feel that Harry kept quiet about it because he takes no joy in humiliating other people (unless they are really asking for it).

I'll agree with this. If Harry were perfect he would be a rather boring hero. His flaws and his mistakes are part of who he is. His rash impulsiveness and his failure to consider the ramifications of his actions are certainly character flaws.
True. However, I think that concentrating on Harry's flaws and forgetting what a basically kind, unselfish and decent kid he is, is equally misleading. We need to bear in mind both his faults and his inherant strength. And however we look at it, Harry is the hero here. The boy who lived. The child who has triumphed over the Dursleys and will truimph over Voldemort one day.

I never said Harry was a saint. Most of his more - ah - debatable actions get forgotten seemingly when Dumbledore covers for him.

I remember thinking "jeez, chill" when he yelled at Ron and Hermione at the beginning of OOTP. It was kind of hard to read. It fits in to how he jumps to conclusions. In fact, Harry was acting rather arrogant for a lot of OOTP. This might have just been a subconscious move to help him with his depression, I don't know. But in OOTP we see a lot of Harry's negative side as he takes out a lot of his angst on Ron and Hermione.

I was stricken by the descriptions of Harry while he was depressed. Not eating meals, not talking to anyone, etc. But back to my point. Yes, Harry would not be nearly as compelling a hero if he was perfect. People who are terribly ignorant say that every HP book ends the same way with Harry saving the world. Obviously this is not true, in fact only PS and CoS had truly happy endings.

The other negative thing is how Harry seems to be a bit too curious sometimes. In a way, he costs his godfather his life in this. I mean, really. A slimy greaseball teacher despises you, and you have never found out why. Could it not have occured to Harry that there could be a perfectly good reason for this? I cringe every time I read SWM, because it's such a stupid action by Harry. I don't know whether this is a negative trait, to be honest, rather a really annoying one. Although it is perfectly clear why Harry would be a curious person (it's one of the first traits we are shown before he learns he is a wizard) it gets in the way sometimes.

Could it not have occured to Harry that there could be a perfectly good reason for this? I cringe every time I read SWM, because it's such a stupid action by Harry. I don't know whether this is a negative trait, to be honest, rather a really annoying one. Although it is perfectly clear why Harry would be a curious person (it's one of the first traits we are shown before he learns he is a wizard) it gets in the way sometimes.

I do this too. I hate how he justifies this spying to himself by pretending it's about the corridor in his dream. He was being a snoop - pure and simple.

However, one good thing about Harry is that he tries to fix his mistakes when he makes them. When he led the DA into Voldemort's trap his first prioirity was to get his friends out of danger rather than himself. I don't think we can expect anyone to be perfect but I do think that Harry tries to attone for his mistakes which is as much as we can ask of him.

Generally, yeah.

And he has grown up since Book 2 in some ways! :lol: I can't see him throwing a firework into a cauldron any more, that's for certain.

Harry isn't the only character described as "brave" in the books, and he also isn't perfect. As far as being "the Chosen One," that's not a glorious honor when we consider that he was "chosen" by the most evil Wizard who ever lived just so he could kill him.

JKR didn't use the term "Chosen One" until book 6, and only the Ministry thinks it makes Harry a desirable hero. Everyone else from Lupin to Snape use it ironically when they talk to him.

Here is a rather obscure quote from JKR that was in the Houston Chronicle:

http://www.sonofabludger.net/interviews/int10.html



Q: What is the meaning behind Harry's lightning bolt scar?

A: There are some things I can tell you about it and some things I can't. I wanted him to be physically marked by what he has been through. It was an outward expression of what he has been through inside. I gave him a scar and in a prominent place so other people would recognize him. It is almost like being the chosen one, or the cursed one, in a sense. Someone tried to kill him; that's how he got it.


I take that to mean that being "Chosen" isn't a good thing, but a curse.

Another point is that the "scar" given to Harry by Voldemort isn't the reason Harry is still alive.



Would a Neville bearing the lightning scar have been as successful at evading Voldemort as Harry has been? Would Neville have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals? Although Dumbledore does not say as much, he does not believe so: he believes Voldemort did indeed choose the boy most likely to be able to topple him, for Harry's survival has not depended wholly or even mainly upon his scar.


Being the Chosen One isn't what is most important - it's the choices Harry makes, some luck with his wand that gave him Priori Incantatum, and the love of his mother.

1. How do Harry's formative years with the Dursley's influence the person he is now? Would he be the same person if his parents had lived? If he had been sent to live with another wizarding family? If he had been sent to an orphanage like Tom Ridde?

I think that Harry is a more humble person from living with the Dursley's. I think Harry would have been a totally different child if he would have lived with his parents or another wizarding family. I think Harry's life would undoubtley been more pleasant helping his confidence level.



2. When do we first see evidence of Harry's "saving people" thing? Is this a strength or a flaw? Will it help or hurt him in Book 7?

I think it is a little bit of both. It is a dangerous game to play when you feel the need to always be the hero but it also shows Harry has a good heart.


3. Harry's natural curiosity was stifled by the Dursleys. "Don't ask questions!" but it comes out it full force once he gets to Hogwarts. How does this curiosity serve him through the books? Has he truly lost it after Dumbledore's death or will it return as he hunts for the horcruxes?

I think it is only natural to be curious about a life you didn't even realize you had until you were 11. I think that Harry's curosity has been important in all the books. It helped him find the sorcerers stone and destroy it,it helped him open the chamber,Harry found out about Pettigrew. I also think Harry realizes that he has to defeat Voldemort and he will take the steps necessary in tracking down the horcruxes.


4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

I think Harry's strength is his love. I think any hatred Harry feels will need to be released in order to defeat Voldemort.


5. How have each of the losses Harry has suffered helped to define who he is and what he must do now?

I think the loss of Cedric was a horrible shock and an understanding of just how brutal Voldemort and the death eaters are. I think Sirius's death was much more personal. Someone that Harry cared for deeply. I think that with Sirius's death Harry is much more determined to defeat Voldemort.


6 Dumbledore tells him that his pure heart is what seperates him from Voldemort and his Death Eaters. What examples have we seen of this pure heart? Do you think that he will be able to maintain it while he searches for the horcruxes and deals with the loss of Dumbledore?

I think the loss of Dumbledore was the final blow to Harry but I think that Harry will overcome. The theme of choices that JKR has emphasized through Dumbledore will be something that Harry will have to remember. If Harry can''t overcome his hate than I believe he will be on Voldemort's level.

II was stricken by the descriptions of Harry while he was depressed. Not eating meals, not talking to anyone, etc.

In a way, he costs his godfather his life in this. I mean, really.


:upset: That quote in HBP was very touching:
[Harry] could tell that Dumbledore understood, that he might even suspect that until his letter arrived, that Harry had spent nearly all his time at the Dursleys' lying on his bed, refusing meals, and staring at the misted window, full of the chill emptiness that he had come to associate with dementors.

And I agree that Harry's curiosity can be his negative point at times. Harry tends to draw conclusions really quick, and I've noticed his conclusions are usually ones that satisfy him - not necessarily the correct conclusion. I guess everyone is like that: accepting what they want to be true, and as others said our hero can't be perfect, but it's just an observation.

A slimy greaseball teacher despises you, and you have never found out why. Could it not have occured to Harry that there could be a perfectly good reason for this? I cringe every time I read SWM, because it's such a stupid action by Harry. I don't know whether this is a negative trait, to be honest, rather a really annoying one. Although it is perfectly clear why Harry would be a curious person (it's one of the first traits we are shown before he learns he is a wizard) it gets in the way sometimes.

Same here. I'm not saying Harry's judgments are wrong all the time, but I'm speaking in general. Like in OotP -when Harry had the "vision" of Sirius being captured at the Ministry-, he blamed Snape even when he knew Snape was the one who alerted the Order.


However, one good thing about Harry is that he tries to fix his mistakes when he makes them. When he led the DA into Voldemort's trap his first prioirity was to get his friends out of danger rather than himself. I don't think we can expect anyone to be perfect but I do think that Harry tries to attone for his mistakes which is as much as we can ask of him



:agree: I love that quality of Harry's. He's so noble and loyal towards his friends. Harry would never let one of his friends be in danger, especially if he was the one who would be at blame later. Even if Harry's 'saving-people' thing annoys some people, I just adore it. :tu: (Although, it did lead to Sirius' death in OotP in a way. But that was more of Harry's foolishness and acting without thinking. :lol:)

Harry might not be a saint, but he's also a teenager. I'm sure we've all experience teenager-like moments with loss of logical thought. When he suspected Malfoy of being heir of Slytherin, he was only twelve, and when he injured classmates to give Hermione a cover, he was only 13.

I remember thinking "jeez, chill" when he yelled at Ron and Hermione at the beginning of OOTP. It was kind of hard to read. It fits in to how he jumps to conclusions. In fact, Harry was acting rather arrogant for a lot of OOTP. This might have just been a subconscious move to help him with his depression, I don't know. But in OOTP we see a lot of Harry's negative side as he takes out a lot of his angst on Ron and Hermione.
That's true and it makes his character realistic. Any teenager here who never gets angry and unreasonable with their family, please raise your hand! (and yes, Ron and Hermione are in effect Harry's closest family - he hasn't got anyone else to take it out on.)I cringe every time I read SWM, because it's such a stupid action by Harry. Yeah, looking in the Pensieve wasn't too bright, but if I had been standing there I'm not at all sure I could have resisted looking either. Again, it's realistic for Harry to make mistakes - it doesn't make him a bad person. And imagine the consequences for the fans if Harry had just walked away from the Pensieve, making the book several chapters shorter and halving the number of threads at CoS! ;)
Same here. I'm not saying Harry's judgments are wrong all the time, but I'm speaking in general. Like in OotP -when Harry had the "vision" of Sirius being captured at the Ministry-, he blamed Snape even when he knew Snape was the one who alerted the Order.I think Harry was well aware that the person he really blamed was himself - but that blaming Snape made the pain easier to bear.
Snape did not speak for a minute or so. Harry felt as though his body was generating waves of hatred so powerful that it seemed incredible that Snape could not feel them burning him. He had loathed Snape from their first encounter [when Snape repeatedly ridiculed 11 year old Harry in his first Potions lesson], but Snape had placed himself for ever and irrevocably beyond the possibility of Harry's forgiveness by his attitude towards Sirius. Whatever Dumbledore said, Harry had had time to think over the summer, and had concluded that Snape's snide remarks to Sirius about remaining safely hidden while the rest of the Order of the Phoenix were fighting Voldemort had probably been a powerful factor in Sirius rushing off to the Ministry the night that he had died. Harry clung to this notion, because it enabled him to blame Snape, which felt satisfying, and also because he knew that if anyone was not sorry that Sirius was dead, it was the man now striding next to him in the darkness.




A slimy greaseball teacher despises you, and you have never found out why. Could it not have occured to Harry that there could be a perfectly good reason for this? This really puzzles me, because there was never a "perfectly good reason" for Snape to loathe Harry - at least not until much later on, and by that time Harry knew a lot more about the situation and understood it pretty well. James and Sirius were the ones Snape had a grudge against. As far as Harry is concerned, Snape is the teacher who hated him from the very beginning, and of course Harry wasn't aware of any possible reason for Snape to dislike him so much so quickly. However, growing up with the Dursleys, Harry was used to being disliked, and accepted it without question. I don't see how the onus could have been on 11 year old Harry, or even 14 year old Harry, to find out why a teacher hated him before he even had a chance to do anything wrong.

That's true and it makes his character realistic. Any teenager here who never gets angry and unreasonable with their family, please raise your hand! (and yes, Ron and Hermione are in effect Harry's closest family - he hasn't got anyone else to take it out on.)
I agree, it was quite realistic written for a teenager. In fact age 15 is the age when a lot of teens tend to have anger strikes without many reasons. But even if Harry annoyed me too in OotP we must keep in mind an addition: He was connected to Voldemort, he was suffering not only his own mood changes, but as well Voldemorts mood changes. He was having hormones raging, Umbridge on his back and a lunatic stuck in his head. Plus the headaches. That's quite enough to have a very bad temper.

However, growing up with the Dursleys, Harry was used to being disliked, and accepted it without question. I don't see how the onus could have been on 11 year old Harry, or even 14 year old Harry, to find out why a teacher hated him before he even had a chance to do anything wrong. That's a very good point. I am often surprised how it is possible that Harry came out to be a decent person, after being mistreated most of his childhood. But indeed there are things he learned with the Dursleys: that he can be despised without actually doing anything wrong. That he can't rely on adults. That he has to endure punishment (even if unfair) alone.

It's true that his character flaws make the character realistic. And yes, Harry was a very realistic character in OOTP especially. Harry's low patience and temper has been with him the whole series, but he grows up immensely in HBP. It is interesting to note that Harry is mature in HBP because at that point, he has gone through more tragedy and trauma in his 16 years than most people do in their lifetime. He's made a realistic character by being somewhat unrealistic.

4. What do you think are Harry's greatest strenghs? What weaknesses will he have to overcome personally before he can defeat Voldemort?

Whilst discussing the Parallels between Snape and Harry this point came up that Harry is impulsive i.e. he takes rash decisions that tend to put him in trouble but the fact is that it is this impulsiveness that tends to generate the best out of him and enables him to think in situations where most people get cold feeted, I see it as one of his greatest strengths- to be able to think and perform under crunchy situations. ;)

I see it as one of his greatest strengths- to be able to think and perform under crunchy situations.
It has certainly served him well so far, and I think it will play a role in the final conflict with Voldemort by allowing him to do something Voldemort will not expect (like plunging the Basilisk fang into the diary).

I'm always a little irked when Harry is accused of "acting the hero" in the books. He never sets out to be a hero. He was scared to death that something terrible was going to happen if every last person wasn't saved from the mermaids; he thought Sirius was going to be killed any moment by Voldemort. He was just trying to do what was right.That's a great point. Harry just wants to do the right thing, and for him, that extends to saving others in dangerous circumstances. It's the same kind of bravery (James) and selflessness (Lily) that his parents displayed as well.

Even with the Acromantulas. Even if he was scared, he had a quite polite conversation with Aragog in the forest (until that one told his children to 'help themselves' :lol: )

Another example for this is the Deathday party, and that he keeps his word by going to a party to be nice to Nick, even if he didn't really want to go there.
Those are both great examples too.

I agree, it was quite realistic written for a teenager. In fact age 15 is the age when a lot of teens tend to have anger strikes without many reasons. But even if Harry annoyed me too in OotP we must keep in mind an addition: He was connected to Voldemort, he was suffering not only his own mood changes, but as well Voldemorts mood changes. He was having hormones raging, Umbridge on his back and a lunatic stuck in his head. Plus the headaches. That's quite enough to have a very bad temper.Harry is a teenager and he will make judgment mistakes. And he will have temper tantrums. But just look at how he rebounded from that and made up with his friends, since the friendships were more important. Harry is a somewhat realistic portrayal of a teenage boy. I say somewhat because most teenage boys aren't wizards with a direct mental connection to the most evil wizard in the world (who also wants to kill Harry). We don't get much of Harry's humdrum normal days since that would make for boring reading.

How could Harry know that potion wouldn't burn holes in everyone? He didn't know. He didn't think. It's debatable that he cared.)I have to take some exception here. First off, none of what you have described are character flaws, they are merely rather infrequent bad behavior or mistaken beliefs. And since Harry is a teen, most teens do act up once in a while or exercise bad judgment. And I don't think he would do something deliberately that would burn others. He didn't think through the ramifications, but he was only 12. He is in and out of trouble, and not always with the most altruistic reasons. Second, I take exception to the idea that he doesn't usually have altruistic reasons, because I think he does usually have altruistic or at least good-hearted reasons. Except for using the toenail hex, I can't remember anytime he didn't have an altruistic reason for his behavior. He has struck back in defense several times when Draco and crew attacked him or his friends, but that is just self-defense. And is he really in and out of trouble all that often? I think despite his rather exceptional lifestyle (a boy wizard hunted by all the evil Death Eaters) he gets into less trouble than the average teen.
and anyone who tries to whitewash his darker side isn't doing the books or the character justice. What darker side--his transitory teen anger--his disrespect for a teacher who constantly belittles him and his dead father? He doesn't disrespect his other teachers. He finds history boring, but most teens do, and they aren't being taught by a ghost who presents the material by droning incessantly without a pause. And the deep caring Harry has shown for his friends more than makes up for the times they have argued. Any mischief-making falls well within the normal expected behavior for a teen and is hardly a darker side. Otherwise Harry's non-sanctioned behavior has been confined to issues contained within whatever was the central mystery for that book. And while Harry should have relied on adults more in some circumstances, that is not a darker side, just an error in judgment (which has to happen or we wouldn't have any adventures at all).

I see a few mistakes in judgment and otherwise quite normal rambunctious teen behavior. I don't think Harry has a darker side. That's the point of Dumbledore mentioning Harry's pure soul and Harry's capacity for love and his heart (meaning his decency, selflessness, and innate goodness). He isn't perfect, but that is not the same thing as having a darker side.

And while Harry should have relied on adults more in some circumstances, that is not a darker side, just an error in judgment (which has to happen or we wouldn't have any adventures at all).I agree with you, Harry should have relied on adults more. But this is a common character trait in children who are raised in situations where they can't depend on adults to help them. I can picture Harry as being a child who had to solve his own problems. The Dursleys pretend that he isn't there, so they wouldn't have been the kind of people who would help him when he had a question or a problem. Can you picture Harry as a child trying to figure out a new game or toy? If he asked for help he was probably laughed at. He grew up learning to solve problems for himself.

That's how I saw it too. He has always had to rely on himself, and adults never helped or seemed to care about helping.

I want to add a little to what I posted before. Harry has smartmouthed Snape, but Harry is a teenager and they do smartmouth adults sometimes (and Snape is a special case, since he has often said rather biting things to Harry). He has done things he was told not to do, but teens do that too. He has acted impulsively, but all teens do that. I don't think that most teens have a darker side and Harry doesn't either. He's a kid, and he acts like one. Although he has had to bear pain and burdens more kids seldom do.


What is remarkable about Harry is how he has managed to remain a warm, innately decent, accepting person despite his upbringing and the pain in his life.

I love the scene in Dumbledore's office, OotP, where Harry is smashing things, yelling, and saying that he has had enough. He never asked for this. He didn't enter the Triwizard Tournament, yet he was forced to compete. He never asked for Voldemort's thoughts to stream into his head, but they do. He never asked to be the one who has to defend himself against a dark wizard intent on killing him. I thought it was pretty realistic.

I love the scene in Dumbledore's office, OotP, where Harry is smashing things, yelling, and saying that he has had enough. He never asked for this. He didn't enter the Triwizard Tournament, yet he was forced to compete. He never asked for Voldemort's thoughts to stream into his head, but they do. He never asked to be the one who has to defend himself against a dark wizard intent on killing him. I thought it was pretty realistic.I loved this, too, but also liked the moment shortly after that when Dumbledore had asked him, if he understands the difference between believing in the content of the prophecy and the wish to stop Voldemort. He still didn't like his status as the Chosen One in HBP, but his character has changed. He began to accept and to freewilling want to be the One, who will try to destroy Voldemort. Impressing.

I love the scene in Dumbledore's office, OotP, where Harry is smashing things, yelling, and saying that he has had enough. He never asked for this. He didn't enter the Triwizard Tournament, yet he was forced to compete. He never asked for Voldemort's thoughts to stream into his head, but they do. He never asked to be the one who has to defend himself against a dark wizard intent on killing him. I thought it was pretty realistic.And Dumbledore just stood by and let Harry smash those things because he understood that Harry needed to let his anger out. It was very real.

That's a great point. Harry just wants to do the right thing, and for him, that extends to saving others in dangerous circumstances. It's the same kind of bravery (James) and selflessness (Lily) that his parents displayed as well.


Those are both great examples too.

Harry is a teenager and he will make judgment mistakes. And he will have temper tantrums. But just look at how he rebounded from that and made up with his friends, since the friendships were more important. Harry is a somewhat realistic portrayal of a teenage boy. I say somewhat because most teenage boys aren't wizards with a direct mental connection to the most evil wizard in the world (who also wants to kill Harry). We don't get much of Harry's humdrum normal days since that would make for boring reading.

I have to take some exception here. First off, none of what you have described are character flaws, they are merely rather infrequent bad behavior or mistaken beliefs. And since Harry is a teen, most teens do act up once in a while or exercise bad judgment. And I don't think he would do something deliberately that would burn others. He didn't think through the ramifications, but he was only 12.Second, I take exception to the idea that he doesn't usually have altruistic reasons, because I think he does usually have altruistic or at least good-hearted reasons. Except for using the toenail hex, I can't remember anytime he didn't have an altruistic reason for his behavior. He has struck back in defense several times when Draco and crew attacked him or his friends, but that is just self-defense. And is he really in and out of trouble all that often? I think despite his rather exceptional lifestyle (a boy wizard hunted by all the evil Death Eaters) he gets into less trouble than the average teen.
What darker side--his transitory teen anger--his disrespect for a teacher who constantly belittles him and his dead father? He doesn't disrespect his other teachers. He finds history boring, but most teens do, and they aren't being taught by a ghost who presents the material by droning incessantly without a pause. And the deep caring Harry has shown for his friends more than makes up for the times they have argued. Any mischief-making falls well within the normal expected behavior for a teen and is hardly a darker side. Otherwise Harry's non-sanctioned behavior has been confined to issues contained within whatever was the central mystery for that book. And while Harry should have relied on adults more in some circumstances, that is not a darker side, just an error in judgment (which has to happen or we wouldn't have any adventures at all).

I see a few mistakes in judgment and otherwise quite normal rambunctious teen behavior. I don't think Harry has a darker side. That's the point of Dumbledore mentioning Harry's pure soul and Harry's capacity for love and his heart (meaning his decency, selflessness, and innate goodness). He isn't perfect, but that is not the same thing as having a darker side.

This is an excellent post, as are the ones after it. I can't find a "dark side" to Harry, either. He is a remarkably normal boy, given his upbringing, with rather poor self-esteem, tremendous loyalty to the friends who make up his self-chosen "family", and the habit of sorting out his own problems because he isn't used to having adults around who care - and lets face it, at the pivotal moments of each story, Harry does seek adult help (eg Dumbledore and McGonagall in PS), but when the adults just aren't there for him he ends up sorting out the issue himself. It's only in OotP that this misfires, and that was because of Dumbledore's insistence on keeping Harry in the dark.

Harry is a special boy with the Power the Dark Lord knows not. I don't think it detracts from his character than he can also be moody and bad-tempered when under (considerable) stress, and that he sometimes acts without thinking through all the consequences. This is normal behaviour for most people. Yes, Snape apparently believes that Harry is arrogant and badly behaved, but that's just his opinion and we, the readers, get a different view of Harry. We aren't blinded by Snape's personal issues with James, and are able to see Harry for what he is. McGonagall and Dumbledore, both wise and experienced teachers who have devoted their lives to the teenagers in their care, think very highly of him, as do Lupin, Sirius, the Weasley family, Hermione, and most of the DA.

And Dumbledore just stood by and let Harry smash those things because he understood that Harry needed to let his anger out. It was very real.
I suspect it was much easier for Dumbledore to watch when he knew he could magically repair all his trinkets! But yes, he understood Harry's reaction and dealt with it sympathetically but firmly.

I suspect it was much easier for Dumbledore to watch when he knew he could magically repair all his trinkets! But yes, he understood Harry's reaction and dealt with it sympathetically but firmly.I guess it would be worse if it was a muggle's crystal collection.

I guess it would be worse if it was a muggle's crystal collection.
:lol: This is very true of a lot of stuff in the books. Breakage and personal injury is just a lot less serious in a world where cuts and broken bones can be healed in a heartbeat and a quick wand movement and Reparo can restore almost anything to it's original state. We have to bear this in mind when considering the potential consequences of some of Harry's (and other character's) actions. So, for example, when Harry tossed a firework into a cauldron of Swelling Solution in CoS, he knew that the resulting swollen body parts could be quickly and easily shrunk by Snape.

Come to think of it, it would make for a hilarious scene if Harry "accidentally" broke an expensive vase or something in front of the Dursleys on his 17th birthday...and mentally torture them by pretending it was a difficult spell to repair it. But that's not very canon or on-topic, so I'll shut up now.:cool:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkwolf
He is in and out of trouble, and not always with the most altruistic reasons.
Second, I take exception to the idea that he doesn't usually have altruistic reasons, because I think he does usually have altruistic or at least good-hearted reasons. Except for using the toenail hex, I can't remember anytime he didn't have an altruistic reason for his behavior. He has struck back in defense several times when Draco and crew attacked him or his friends, but that is just self-defense. And is he really in and out of trouble all that often? I think despite his rather exceptional lifestyle (a boy wizard hunted by all the evil Death Eaters) he gets into less trouble than the average teen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkwolf
and anyone who tries to whitewash his darker side isn't doing the books or the character justice.
What darker side--his transitory teen anger--his disrespect for a teacher who constantly belittles him and his dead father? He doesn't disrespect his other teachers. He finds history boring, but most teens do, and they aren't being taught by a ghost who presents the material by droning incessantly without a pause. And the deep caring Harry has shown for his friends more than makes up for the times they have argued. Any mischief-making falls well within the normal expected behavior for a teen and is hardly a darker side. Otherwise Harry's non-sanctioned behavior has been confined to issues contained within whatever was the central mystery for that book. And while Harry should have relied on adults more in some circumstances, that is not a darker side, just an error in judgment (which has to happen or we wouldn't have any adventures at all).

I see a few mistakes in judgment and otherwise quite normal rambunctious teen behavior. I don't think Harry has a darker side. That's the point of Dumbledore mentioning Harry's pure soul and Harry's capacity for love and his heart (meaning his decency, selflessness, and innate goodness). He isn't perfect, but that is not the same thing as having a darker side.

I have to agree with Inkwolf on this point of Harry's dark side - because he has shown that he does have one. Some of his behavior isn't just normal rambunctious teenage acting out - he crosses a line sometimes.

For instance, when he is angry about the death of Sirius, he chases Bellatrix down the hall alone and does the Crucio on her.

That isn't a spell that he learned from the Prince/Snape. That is a spell that he has only seen done by Voldemort, Bella, and Fake Moody.

It is an Unforgivable and thankfully, Harry isn't able to do it properly, but the fact that he has the impulse to "punish" Bella in a painful way goes way beyond self-defense. To me that is proof that Harry needs to think about not sinking to the level of Voldemort himself during his future fight. Harry has been through Crucio himself, so a reader would think that he wouldn't want to torture someone else that way - yet he tries it with Snape at the end of HBP. He knows what Sectumsempra does, so he can't plead "innocent," yet he tries that on Snape, too.

My point is that Harry knows other defensive spells and ways of stopping people rather than Unforgivables or scary curses, yet he misguidedly tries to use them on people. That is a flaw, in my opinion.

That is a flaw, in my opinion.


That is rightly said that he does have flaws that leave gaping holes in his character. Not only is he attracted to use Dark Arts, under situations where he is desperate to cause damage, but also applies them. But this then can be attributed to the Slytherine within him. I mean he had some of Lord Voldemort's power transfered to him along with which some of the characteristics of the Dark Lord could also have been transfered and that is what makes him prone to use the Dark arts.

I mean the sorting hat considered putting Harry in Slytherine and we know that Harry does have the Slytherine part which comes out under exceptional circumstances like the reaction on Sirius's Death or the reaction after Dumbledore's death. It is only but natural that the Characteristics attained from the Dark Lord overrule his natural self under such situations. ;)

It might have ben harmful in the past tht harry never went to adults for help (though who could blame him after all the "help" he got for the first lleven years of his life), but it will have paid off by book seven. In the end, harry is going to have to kill Voldemort on his own, and he can't do that if he's in the practice of relying on others to save him.

Some of his behavior isn't just normal rambunctious teenage acting out - he crosses a line sometimes.So he ran after the DE who just killed his godfather and tried to crucio her. He wasn't able to do it very well which shows he doesn't have what it takes. This was still in the heat of battle, almost any injury to her at that point would have been considered acceptable. And people do act badly when they are overwhelmed with grief.

And Snape had just killed Dumbledore. Harry didn't just decide to hurt Snape for the hell of it. Again, any injury inflicted on Snape at that point would have been considered acceptable since he was an escaping murderer.

You've pointed out two extreme circumstances where Harry attemped to attack the murderer of someone he loved. If we saw Harry doing this when he was merely annoyed or angry with someone then I would worry. And in both cases he wasn't very good at it which would show that it doesn't come naturally or easily to him.

It might have ben harmful in the past tht harry never went to adults for help (though who could blame him after all the "help" he got for the first lleven years of his life), but it will have paid off by book seven. In the end, harry is going to have to kill Voldemort on his own, and he can't do that if he's in the practice of relying on others to save him.Absolutely. And he will have to think on his feet too, because he will be hopelessly outmatched by Voldemort. He won't defeat him by being a more powerful wizard.

Harry has been thrust into a situation that people don't normally encounter, having to survive against a maniac trying to kill him. I doubt that Harry would have ever just Crucioed someone for the fun of it. He has been driven to the wall by one loss after another, his parents, his godfather and his mentor. No wonder he cracks and performs unforgiveable curses.

But to answer some of the replies to my earlier posts:

No, Harry doesn't have altrustic reasons for all his actions. Some of his motivations are merely selfish. He occasionally tries to justify them by convincing himself he's doing what's right, or fair, or necessary. He didn't need to evade security and go into Hogsmeade--there wasn't even a pretended altruistic reason for that. There was no real reason for him to dive into Snape's pensieve, just the excuses he tried to justify his nosiness with.

As to the firecracker scene,and the idea that Harry 'knew' Snape would be able to fix everything: If that was so, how come he made sure to throw it to the OTHER side of the room? If it was perfectly safe, why didn't he nobly sacrifice himself by blowing up his own cauldron? :lol: Or put it in Ron's cauldron, so he wouldn't have to take the risk of being seen throwing it across the room, or of idiot Goyle's cauldron containing somethign more dangerous than a properly-completed potion?

And, yes, Harry IS in and out of trouble constantly. I'm surprised that anyone would even argue the point. :p

I agree that Harry has done things that are selfish, and wrong etc. But after that, his age still has to be taken into account (elleven, twelve and thirteen year olds don't always think) as well as his maturity process. In book five, Harry was embarrased to be seen with luna - by book six, he was asking her to a party. I think that's amazing growth.

I agree that Harry has done things that are selfish, and wrong etc. But after that, his age still has to be taken into account (elleven, twelve and thirteen year olds don't always think) as well as his maturity process.

Quite so, and that's my point--he's pretty much a normal boy. I by no means am implying that Harry is the Spawn of Satan or anything: I just tend to get freaked out when he is protrayed as too saintly. I find it icky. :p I'm sure Harry would, too.

And, yes, Harry IS in and out of trouble constantly. I'm surprised that anyone would even argue the point.
Well, yes, Harry usually has more important things on his mind than school rules, so he does end up in trouble, but more often that not he's in trouble for helping people or through no fault of his own. OK, using an unknown hex/curse marked "for enemies" on Draco was a big mistake, but Draco was just about to perform an Unforgivable curse on Harry at the time. And chasing Bellatrix in Ootp, and Snape in HBP can't really be taken to show a "dark side" since in both cases people very dear to him had just been murdered right before his eyes. I'm not defending Harry's choice of spells just then, simply saying that the circumstances were exceptional by any standards.

Let look at the stuff Harry gets into trouble for:

- PS: helping Hagrid find a safe home for Norbert

- CoS: Dobby's use of a hover charm at 4 Privet Drive

- CoS: borrowing a flying car in order to get to school on time - not very sensible, but hardly Dark.

- CoS: being in the wrong place at the wrong time twice - once because he was investigating the source of a mysterious voice that threatened to kill people, and once because he was looking for Justin in order to talk to him.

- PoA: sneaking into Hogsmeade - where all his friends were, and where he would have been too if Vernon wasn't so mean.

- GoF: having his name in the Goblet of Fire - which wasn't Harry's fault at all!

- GoF: almost in trouble for wandering the corridors at night, after discovering the secret of the golden egg in the Prefect's bathroom, and seeing Crouch's name on the Marauders Map.

- OotP: performing magic in front of Dudley - in order to save Dudley from having his soul sucked out by a Dementor sent by Umbridge.

- OotP: telling the truth in DADA lessons.

- OotP: forming the DA.

- OotP: banned from Quidditch for an attack on Malfoy. Not a good idea at all, but the adrenaline was flowing from the match, Harry himself had just been attacked, and Malfoy was jeering about Harry and the Weasley's parents.

I see a certain pattern here. Harry's passionate nature and his love for his parents and his friends get him into trouble more often than anything else. He also makes a few bad decisions in stressful situations, but none of this makes him a bad person. He also has things to worry about (mostly Voldemort-related) than set him apart from the other children and make school rules seem trivial when weighed up against the real need to find monsters, or to convince people that he's not a liar and that Voldemort really was back.

In book five, Harry was embarrased to be seen with luna - by book six, he was asking her to a party. I think that's amazing growth.
Also in OotP Harry was embarrassed for Cho to see him sitting with "uncool" people on the train. In HBP he tells Romilda where to go (politely but cooly) when she suggests he could do better than Neville and Luna. I was proud of him then!

As to the firecracker scene,and the idea that Harry 'knew' Snape would be able to fix everything: If that was so, how come he made sure to throw it to the OTHER side of the room? If it was perfectly safe, why didn't he nobly sacrifice himself by blowing up his own cauldron? Or put it in Ron's cauldron, so he wouldn't have to take the risk of being seen throwing it across the room, or of idiot Goyle's cauldron containing somethign more dangerous than a properly-completed potion?
Easy. If you want to create a diversion so that Hermione can slip unnoticed into the store room, you don't chuck a firework in your own cauldron right by where she is - you send it to the other side of the room, thus turning all attention that way, and allowing Hermione to do her stuff unnoticed.

but none of this makes him a bad person.

Who said he was? Why the excessive defensiveness? Must Harry be some sort of lily-white saint to be a worthwhile person?

He also has things to worry about (mostly Voldemort-related) than set him apart from the other children and make school rules seem trivial when weighed up against the real need to find monsters, or to convince people that he's not a liar and that Voldemort really was back.

Or to not miss out on going to the candy store when the government has surrounded his school with Dementors to protect him, personally, from an insane murderer.

Who said he was? Why the excessive defensiveness? Must Harry be some sort of lily-white saint to be a worthwhile person?No, of course not. I guess all this talk of his Dark side makes me want to leap to his defence, especially considering the connotations of the word Dark in the Potterverse. But the special thing about Harry is his purity and his ability to love despite his horrible upbringing and it is this that will enable him to conquer Voldemort. I don't see a Dark side to Harry - just normal teenage angst and rage and a remarkably unselfish personality.
Or to not miss out on going to the candy store when the government has surrounded his school with Dementors to protect him, personally, from an insane murderer.He's a kid - what do you expect? Anyway, the books would be short and boring if Harry just stayed in school and did as he was told all the time! This doesn't consitute a Dark side.

No, of course not. I guess all this talk of his Dark side makes me want to leap to his defence, especially considering the connotations of the word Dark in the Potterverse. But the special thing about Harry is his purity and his ability to love despite his horrible upbringing and it is this that will enable him to conquer Voldemort. I don't see a Dark side to Harry - just normal teenage angst and rage and a remarkably unselfish personality.

I agree with this. He's certainly not perfect. He does selfish things like sneaking into Hogsmeade in PoA and rash things like throwing the dung bomb into Goyle's cauldron and downright indefensible things like invading Snape's privacy in SWM. But at heart Harry is a remarkably good and pure person. When it counts I think Harry will at least try to do the right thing.

I agree as well. :p But when the discussion of him seems to be getting worshipful, I can't seem to resist coming in and trying to ground it a little. :D

I agree with this. He's certainly not perfect. He does selfish things like sneaking into Hogsmeade in PoA and rash things like throwing the dung bomb into Goyle's cauldron and downright indefensible things like invading Snape's privacy in SWM. But at heart Harry is a remarkably good and pure person. When it counts I think Harry will at least try to do the right thing.

Oh, definitely. Harry's kind of dumb when it comes to school, too. In HBP, he couldn't even figure out Galpolatt's Third Law! I've memorized it, I know exactly what it means, and I know how to go about creating the antidote. You use Scarpin's Revliospell to find out the ingredients and get the antidote to each of the seperate poisons. Then you have to find the final ingredient(s) which could be anything.

My point is that Harry is not perfect in the least. Even if he's good and kind, he's an idiot and he acts rashly and I can't believe the fate of the wizarding world is in the hands of a boy who doesn't have an ounce of logic. (Really, if you read it, Galpolatt's Law is very simple!)

My point is that Harry is not perfect in the least. Even if he's good and kind, he's an idiot and he acts rashly and I can't believe the fate of the wizarding world is in the hands of a boy who doesn't have an ounce of logic. (Really, if you read it, Galpolatt's Law is very simple!)But I doubt that Galpolatt's Law will be what Harry needs to defeat Voldemort. BTW, the point of that scene wasn't whether Harry knew the law or not, but whether the HBP potions book had a simpler (and more amusing way) to get it done.

And I don't agree that Harry is an idiot without an ounce of logic. He has thought his way out of some horrible situations (which required brains and logic). In fact, he always keeps head when in danger which will be important since he will not be able to outmatch Voldemort in magical skill.

Oh, definitely. Harry's kind of dumb when it comes to school, too. In HBP, he couldn't even figure out Galpolatt's Third Law! I've memorized it, I know exactly what it means, and I know how to go about creating the antidote. You use Scarpin's Revliospell to find out the ingredients and get the antidote to each of the seperate poisons. Then you have to find the final ingredient(s) which could be anything.
I was actually surprised at how well harry did on exams - I feel like the books imply that harry is rather average at school, and sometimes even mediocre. (except for DADA and care of magical creatures)

His potions grade may be due to Snape, but he never seems to get charms, or history of magic. but perhaps we always see harry and ron in comparison to hermione, which isn't quite fair.