Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows - General Speculation and Opinions v3

Actually I have another synonym for you. After hearing the title I did some research and in my friend's dictionary is says under Hallow: see halloo.
so I looked that up too and it states in MY dictionary that a halloo is a cry/yell, an urging on to hounds, or a hunting cry. So maybe it means Deathly Cries.

I looked up in a thesaurus other words that are synonyms of Hallow

Here they are:

Main Entry - Definition

Anoint - bless
Bless - sanctify
Celebrate - commemorate
Consecrate - honor
Dedicate - sanctify
Devote - commit
Enshrine - hold sacred
Honor - recognize
Sanctify - [I]worship
They're verbs, 'hallows' in the title is a plural noun.

So:

Something/someone that has been anointed, blessed, celebrated, consecrated, dedicated etc..

So far, the translation titles are 'working' titles, until the publishers get more info from JK. But the translation fits. The Dutch working title is Harry Potter en het Fatale Heiligdom which means Harry Potter and the Fatal [deadly] Sanctuary.

yes, I know they're working titles, but they can still provide us clues as to what the Deathly Hallows are...

Actually I have another synonym for you. After hearing the title I did some research and in my friend's dictionary is says under Hallow: see halloo.
so I looked that up too and it states in MY dictionary that a halloo is a cry/yell, an urging on to hounds, or a hunting cry. So maybe it means Deathly Cries.


Deathly Cries...hmm....that sounds like a theory.

Here is what I think about the title:

I'm going to go into details with definitions and specific words. Deathly is an adjective meaning, 1. Of, resembling, or characteristics of death. 2. Causing death; fatal. It can also be an adverb, but most likely not in this situation. 1. In the name of death. 2. Extremely;very. Hallows is a transitive verb meaning, 1. To make or set apart as holy. 2. To respect or honor as greatly; revere.

So there's the definitions, I know they've been said quite a number of times, but to review it. No one has come to the conclusion that the title can be an oxymoron: Deathly- bad, and Hallows- good; or Deathly- death, and hallows- life.

Deathly can be a direct reference to death, it's and adjective, so that means it describes hallows, so all we have to find out is what's hallows. I'm guessing, using the oxymoron statement, it's gonna' be something good, and object, place, or thing that goes wrong, or bad. Hallows is in plural, so it can't be something specific, something in general, quite possibly a symbol for something. I don't think it's a horcrux, unless one horcrux is that important to be the title of a book.

Actually I have another synonym for you. After hearing the title I did some research and in my friend's dictionary is says under Hallow: see halloo.
so I looked that up too and it states in MY dictionary that a halloo is a cry/yell, an urging on to hounds, or a hunting cry. So maybe it means Deathly Cries.

Interesting.. On dictionary.com They have two DIFFERENT entries for hallow:

verb (used with object) 1. to make holy; sanctify; consecrate.
2. to honor as holy; consider sacred; venerate: to hallow a battlefield.

–interjection, noun, verb (used without object), verb (used with object) see HALLO

And, of course, you know the definition of Hallo.

However, in my personal book dictionary it is the same (two entries) except it spells Hallo 'Halloo'

Should this thread be discussed in 'Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows - General Speculation and Opinions v3 '?

I'll admit I've not read every post of the previous two versions of this discussion, but I think I'm comming from a whole different angle on this "hallows" thing.

To me, hallows is about payiong respect to people who have made sacrifices for the greater good of their country, for their beliefs, their families and for mankibd in general. Its about remembering people, usually who have died who have stood for something.

We usually make monuments to remind us to remember their sacrifice over the centuries, and to remind us to remain vigilant.

To me, Deathly Hallows could have a number of meanings - and is supposed to! Given that this is the last book, all the loose ends need to be delt with. I belive we wont be seeing any characters comming back to life, but we will see Sirius being cleared and shown some respect for his part in the fight against the Death Eaters. We will also see Harry paying homage to his parents, Dumbledore and the other characters marked to pass over.

I believe that Harry will finally understand that while he is recognised as the "boy who lived", he is only the tip of the sword. As much as he thinks he must do the job alone at the end of HBP, he is really the culmination of the efforts of many heroic people. He will pay tribute to his past, while Voldie tries to run from his.

We will also see Harry paying homage to his parents, Dumbledore and the other characters marked to pass over.

I believe that Harry will finally understand that while he is recognised as the "boy who lived", he is only the tip of the sword. As much as he thinks he must do the job alone at the end of HBP, he is really the culmination of the efforts of many heroic people. He will pay tribute to his past, while Voldie tries to run from his.

Excellent post - I like the analogy of Harry being just the tip of the sword, whilst homage and respect is due to the efforts of many other courageous people. Good post, moonarcher, thanks!

Here is what I think about the title:


I don't think it's a horcrux, unless one horcrux is that important to be the title of a book.

I agree. The idea of items that have been shown to be evil and potentially fatal to thaose who touch them being revered as holy is more than off putting. I cant bring myself to believe that Jo would do this, especially when she has been so careful not to make a commentry on any given religion (Belief systems maybe, but IMO not an acyual religon).

Besides, Voldie wants the world to pay attention to him. If people start worshiping his horcruxes, thats less attention to him personally - like worshipping a statue of Jesus or Buhdda or any other religious figure instead of revering them and their teachings. Introducing the horcruxes as items that are "hallowed" or holy also means that more people would know about them, as I cant see Harry attaching that kind of reverence to them.

Quote:
("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival

We know from jkrowling.com that she has already shown interest in things celtic, for example the choosing of the wands to each character based on birthdays on the celtic tree calendar.

We also know that she gave us clues to what to expect in the final book, like why certain ghosts are able to come back as spirits and some are not. I believe that this quote has something to do it. Nearly Headless Nick's deathday is on halloween night,
maybe a death on or around this day enables the spirits to cross the veil. Or that only on this day can any spirit cross the veil, this would make many people happy as Sirius could likely return once these questions are answered.

Finally, I don't feel that 'Hallows' is referring to a graveyard. A graveyard in the context of a physical graveyard on the Hogwarts grounds. But possibly the graveyard beyond the veil. Perhaps even hinting on more than the one veil we know of in the DoM. During the battle in DoM, Remus stopped Harry from going into veil after Sirius, we don't know why, but obviously Remus did. Perhaps Harry visits the dimension on the other side of the veil to find out certain info on the horcrui whereabouts and the destruction of them and LV.

Transfering this from another thread.
suppose it's worth referencing with the Translated titles having the theme of "saints" running through them. It is All Hallows Eve and then All Saints day...
Which, I guess is just the words being synonyms? Since it's hallows eve, and Saints day, well, then, they mean the same thing?


hal·low [ hállō ] (past and past participle hal·lowed, present participle hal·low·ing, 3rd person present singular hal·lows)

Encarta
transitive verb

Definition:

1. make holy: to make somebody or something holy


2. respect greatly: to have great respect or reverence for somebody or something


[ Old English hālgian < Indo-European]


hal·low·er noun





Oxford

hallow
/halo/

• verb 1 make holy; consecrate. 2 honour as holy. 3 hallowed greatly revered.

• noun archaic a saint or holy person.

— ORIGIN Old English, related to HOLY.
Wikitionary

Noun
Singular
hallow
Plural
hallows


hallow (plural hallows)

(archaic) a holy person, a saint
All Hallows Eve (or Halloween), the night before All Hallows Day (now more commonly known as "All Saints Day").

Transitive Verb

[edit] Etymology
From Old English halgian.

Infinitive
to hallow
Third person singular
hallows
Simple past
hallowed
Past participle
hallowed
Present participle
hallowing


to hallow (third-person singular simple present hallows, present participle hallowing, simple past hallowed, past participle hallowed)

to make holy, to sanctify
Wordsmyth
Pronunciation hae lo
Inflected Forms hallowed, hallowing, hallows
Definition 1. to consecrate or make holy.
Crossref. Syn. bless , anoint , consecrate
Definition 2. to respect or honor highly; venerate.
Crossref. Syn. bless , venerate , adore
(This made me think something VERY interesting. what if it is meant to be looked at as "Deathly Annointment" and with the also referenced saints... What is the people killed in this war, fighting against Voldemort, are annointed or sainted? Ie: Harry? Like how you can't become a saint until after you die... but since Hallows is plural, then it could mean the whole lot who die and not just the one person. Far fetched, I personally think, but it is also worth noting.)

American Heritage
SYLLABICATION: hal·low
PRONUNCIATION: hl
TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: hal·lowed, hal·low·ing, hal·lows
1. To make or set apart as holy. 2. To respect or honor greatly; revere.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English halwen, from Old English hlgian. See kailo- in Appendix I.
ENTRY: kailo-
DEFINITION: Whole, uninjured, of good omen. 1a. hale1, whole, from Old English hl, hale, whole; b. wholesome, from Old English *hlsum (> Middle English holsom), wholesome; c. hail2; wassail, from Old Norse heill, healthy. a–c all from Germanic *hailaz. 2. health, from Old English hlth, health, from Germanic *hailith. 3. heal, from Old English hlan, to heal, from Germanic *hailjan. 4a. holy; halibut, halidom, holiday, hollyhock, from Old English hlig, holy, sacred; b. hallow; Allhallowmas, Halloween, from Old English hlgian, to consecrate, bless, from Germanic derivative verb *hailagn. Both a and b from Germanic *hailagaz. (Pokorny kai-lo- 520.)

Also, I found this when reading about the celtic tradition
The Christian religion, with its emphasis on the “historical” Christ and his act of Redemption 2000 years ago, is forced into a linear view of time, where seeing the future is an illogical proposition. In fact, from the Christian perspective, any attempt to do so is seen as inherently evil. This did not keep the medieval church from co-opting Samhain’s other motif, commemoration of the dead. To the church, however, it could never be a feast for all the dead, but only the blessed dead, all those hallowed (made holy) by obedience to God—thus, All Hallow’s, or Hallowmas, later All Saints and All Souls.

Quote:
("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival

We know from jkrowling.com that she has already shown interest in things celtic, for example the choosing of the wands to each character based on birthdays on the celtic tree calendar.

We also know that she gave us clues to what to expect in the final book, like why certain ghosts are able to come back as spirits and some are not. I believe that this quote has something to do it. Nearly Headless Nick's deathday is on halloween night,
maybe a death on or around this day enables the spirits to cross the veil. Or that only on this day can any spirit cross the veil, this would make many people happy as Sirius could likely return once these questions are answered.

Finally, I don't feel that 'Hallows' is referring to a graveyard. A graveyard in the context of a physical graveyard on the Hogwarts grounds. But possibly the graveyard beyond the veil. Perhaps even hinting on more than the one veil we know of in the DoM. During the battle in DoM, Remus stopped Harry from going into veil after Sirius, we don't know why, but obviously Remus did. Perhaps Harry visits the dimension on the other side of the veil to find out certain info on the horcrui whereabouts and the destruction of them and LV.

As I said earlier, I dont think any characters will be comming back. Having said that, I went to the official JK site, where once upon a time I'm sure there were seperate quotes from Jo saying that Sirius, Harry's parents and Dumbledore are really dead and not comming back. Does anyone else remember that? Because try as I might, I can't find them anymore....

So am I dreaming they ever existed? Am I just looking for them on the wrong spot? Or have they gone?!!! If they are gone, is ot just because they were old postings, or is it something else for us to read into? I hope not, because of the theory I posted earlier.

I like the idea of the border between the living and the dead being thinner on Halloween, but I think if any communication comes from anyone that has passed on, I think it more likely to come from something they left behind than a face to face - like their potrait or pensieve....?

To begin lets talk about the word hallow. It has several meaning’s(a hallow in the woods, a hallowed bat, but they all come to the same conclusion a opening that is surrounded on both sides. There is also hallowed ground, such as religious places or places where great battles have taken place. Now as we think back we can remember that the very place this all begun for was Godrics hallow (funny how the name can be traced to a founder of Hogwarts, what better of a place to find a item of Gryffindor’s) but also when you are near a forest there is more then one hallow around. Also I not sure if the burrow could count as a hallow but if it does it could also mean there will be a attack at bill’s wedding(what better way to ambush the order) another option could be the test he will face to destroy the horcrux’s and the understanding of his or others hearts and souls.

Deathly - could be just a state of being like when someone says they are deathly ill so the surroundings could be deathly.
(my bad visual art of a hallow in a forest.)

True forest
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAaAAA AAAA


hallow (hallowed out forest)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Now as we think back we can remember that the very place this all begun for was Godrics hallow (funny how the name can be traced to a founder of Hogwarts, what better of a place to find a item of Gryffindor’s) but also when you are near a forest there is more then one hallow around. I thought that was hollow, with an "o"?

it is I miss spelled it sorry

Now as we think back we can remember that the very place this all begun for was Godrics hallow (funny how the name can be traced to a founder of Hogwarts, what better of a place to find a item of Gryffindor’s) but also when you are near a forest there is more then one hallow around.
Hey, I never realised; Godrics Hollow; Godric Gryffindor- what a "coincidence!" Maybe this "coincidence" will be talked about in HP & the DH.

Why can't the Deatly Hallows be an event or events?

I keep coming back to clues laid down by Jo, speaking through our favorite Potions Master (well, my favorite Potions Master, anyway). In Harry's first ever Potions class, Snape brings up 3 potions questions, which of course Harry can't answer. ( I mean, really, Professor, this kid's lived with Vernon, Petunia and Dudley all his life, he knows from-what-all about magical potions)

Draught of Living Death
Bezoar
Wolfsbane

We've seen the bezoar used when Harry gave it to Ron in Slughorn's office to save him from the poisoned mead that Draco had smuggled in; we know that Wolfsbane has been brewed by Snape to keep Lupin's werewolf transformations under control, but as yet, we have NOT seen the Draught of Living Death.

If we take 'Deathly' in Book 7's title at its most accepted meaning (Occam's Razor, again), it means 'resembling death.' Somehow, somewhere, the Draught of Living Death and our favorite Potions Master (okay, okay, MY favorite Potions Master) are going to have a large part to play in 'Deathly Hallows.'

if you follow lovelupin's thought with Draught of Living Death then harry might take it to allow himself to cross the veil for a short time to talk to someone (r.a.b., parents, ect...) to help him

Agree with LoveLupin about both the draught of living death and (my favourite) potion master. SNAPE IS GOOD!!!

Ok, now my two cents worth:
When I looked at the title "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows", what really caught my eyes was the "Deathly". Ok, hallows could mean person ,place, object......whatever. But "Deathly" described the whatever. Like many, I was very puzzled that "deathly" was chosen, instead of "deadly" . When I searched my memory for subtle but significant incidences involving "deathly" in the previous HP books, I was first reminded of the scene whereby Dumbledore was cornered by Draco Malfoy before the great man was AKed. Dumbledore offered Malfoy and his family "protection" from the dark lord through...........something to do with death!!!

I agree. The idea of items that have been shown to be evil and potentially fatal to thaose who touch them being revered as holy is more than off putting. I cant bring myself to believe that Jo would do this, especially when she has been so careful not to make a commentry on any given religion (Belief systems maybe, but IMO not an acyual religon).

Besides, Voldie wants the world to pay attention to him. If people start worshiping his horcruxes, thats less attention to him personally - like worshipping a statue of Jesus or Buhdda or any other religious figure instead of revering them and their teachings. Introducing the horcruxes as items that are "hallowed" or holy also means that more people would know about them, as I cant see Harry attaching that kind of reverence to them.

I don't believe "sacred" or "hallowed" is being used in the context of an established religion; I believe, if the title does refer to Horcruxes, it's meant to show that Voldemort considers things his soul comes into contact with sacred. He sees them that way - they hold parts of his soul, they are the things which ensure his immortality. I have no doubt that he definitely feels they are hugely important. Dumbledore even says as much, in that he says Voldemort chose items he considered worthy of holding his soul.

If Hollows can also maint saint or saintly, perhaps the title refers to Dumbledore?????

If Hollows can also maint saint or saintly, perhaps the title refers to Dumbledore?????

Perhaps it does, that would fit in nicely with the theories of Harry speaking to some of those who have been killed allready...

I'm agree with the Veil theory. When I first read the title I thought to Sirius... Maybe he could be a Deathly Hallow now.
Here in Italy fans have translate the title in "Anime mortali" that means Mortal Souls or somethig like that!

P.S. Sorry for my English :P

Hi All,

As some of my friends have already pointed out that it is "Deathly" Hallows and not "Deadly" hallows. So I have some theories of mine also.

I think this title refers to "Voices of Dead". In 7th book these voices are going to play a very important role.

In my opinion, 7th book might be a dull affair because the emphasis will be on harry's compassion, love and emotions (a power which Voldemort lacks) which will help harry to defeat the evilness of Voldemort. If people remember then in HBP, Dumbledore was curious to know if Harry felt some pity for tom riddle junior in his orphange days. I think this the power that will free Voldemort of his evil ways and it is possible that both (harry and voldemort) may not die in the end because the aim is to vanquish the evil not the evil doer.

The emphasis will not be on powerful magic and counter curses and some high voltage action of superb wand work but it will be on the power of heart to love the person with in.

I think this the power that will free Voldemort of his evil ways and it is possible that both (harry and voldemort) may not die in the end because the aim is to vanquish the evil not the evil doer.

The emphasis will not be on powerful magic and counter curses and some high voltage action of superb wand work but it will be on the power of heart to love the person with in.

The prophecy clearly states that one will vanquish the other, i.e. meaning a person... but that's the subjecty of another thread :cool:

Voices from the dead is possible.... but if so, then who?
Dumbledore?
Sirius?
Regulus? (or is he hidden away, DD style rather than really dead?)
Harry's Parents?

Hey, I never realised; Godrics Hollow; Godric Gryffindor- what a "coincidence!" Maybe this "coincidence" will be talked about in HP & the DH.

Except that "Deathly Hallows" and "Godrics Hollow" are spelled differently.

And I doubt that if the title had anything to do with Godrics Hollow that Jo would make a mistake like 'a' for 'o'? Unless she meant it to have multiple meanings...

I keep coming back to clues laid down by Jo, speaking through our favorite Potions Master (well, my favorite Potions Master, anyway). In Harry's first ever Potions class, Snape brings up 3 potions questions, which of course Harry can't answer. ( I mean, really, Professor, this kid's lived with Vernon, Petunia and Dudley all his life, he knows from-what-all about magical potions)

Draught of Living Death
Bezoar
Wolfsbane

We've seen the bezoar used when Harry gave it to Ron in Slughorn's office to save him from the poisoned mead that Draco had smuggled in; we know that Wolfsbane has been brewed by Snape to keep Lupin's werewolf transformations under control, but as yet, we have NOT seen the Draught of Living Death.

If we take 'Deathly' in Book 7's title at its most accepted meaning (Occam's Razor, again), it means 'resembling death.' Somehow, somewhere, the Draught of Living Death and our favorite Potions Master (okay, okay, MY favorite Potions Master) are going to have a large part to play in 'Deathly Hallows.'

Well I've had the same thoughts actually. How many clues about Poisons has she dropped? I really want to see Draught of the Living dead...

My opinion? It's ALL of the interpretations. And it's hard to see why not, at the least, most of them could be true:

Hallows as Horcruxes: we know Horcruxes will play a part already.

Hallows as People: the voices behind the veil are the obvious ones here.

Hallows as a Place: either the veil itself, the world behind it, a magical cave of Merlin's where Dumbledore learned unknown magic, a graveyard in Hogwarts - all plausible, and with the exception of Merlin's cave all could easily play a role

Hallows as Arthurian Legend: this would tie in with the graveyard and the Horcruxes.


I think the title is deliberately ambiguous for giving us somehting to speculate intensely about and/or refer to many things in the book. Look at the previous titles - all of them referred to a very specific (if unknown in the details) things. The ambiguity of Book 7's title is I think not an accident.

I agree with the WeasleyRules's theory, it makes sense to me, I mean its too much of coincidence to ignore all of it, I mean Harry's parents and Nearly Headless Nick died on Halloween. And the fact that JKR is into Celtic. Along with the fact that the book is suppose to be about death, ghost, spirits, maybe Inferi. Who knows? But the theme clearly (even through the title) screams out "Death."

As I said earlier, I don't think any characters will be coming back. Having said that, I went to the official JK site, where once upon a time I'm sure there were separate quotes from Jo saying that Sirius, Harry's parents and Dumbledore are really dead and not coming back. Does anyone else remember that? Because try as I might, I can't find them anymore....

So am I dreaming they ever existed? Am I just looking for them on the wrong spot? Or have they gone?!!! If they are gone, is ot just because they were old postings, or is it something else for us to read into? I hope not, because of the theory I posted earlier.

I like the idea of the border between the living and the dead being thinner on Halloween, but I think if any communication comes from anyone that has passed on, I think it more likely to come from something they left behind than a face to face - like their portrait or pensive....?

Yes, JKR said that you can't bring back a dead person to life, you can't undo the killing curse. But she never said anything about not being able to bring back spirits to the earth. I mean if there is a way for spirits to cross over or humans to cross over without defying death then Sirius can come back. I mean if the dead could never come back(in other ways) than how did even an echo of Cedric, Lily and James and others come in the duel in GoF?

See there are ways to come back, but not by defying death but by coming on earth into different forms, there is always a way to cheat.

As for the portrait thing, maybe it is possible I mean, we have seen previous headmaster's portraits talk to Dumbledore. But we don't know if they know everything or even if Sirius or Harry's parents ever had a portrait

I doubt that Sirius or the Potters had portraits; the people we've seen with them were important Ministers, Headmasters, Healers, etc.

I think it's possible that the dead may be involved in the defeat of Voldemort . . . but if they are, at the end of the book they'll go back beyond the Veil. JKR has been too adamant about saying that the dead don't come back in any real form (unlike pensieves and portraits) to change that now.

dose any body think that it may something to do with betty croch jr


I dont think the Hallows will have any thing to do with the horcruxes

Hallows, as in 'all hallows eve' is the day of halloween, which is the day harry's parents were killed. so hallows, is a time of year. 'deathly' is concerened with murder, and death...obviously!

therefore, for me, the title basically translates to 'harry potter and the night his parents died', or, 'and the murder at halloween'! something along those lines!.

i just think that 'deathly hallows' is concerned with the night harrys parents were killed, so i suspect harry will returned to godrics hollow. its therefore clear that something about the horcruxes will lead on from his visit, as harry has to finish voldy!

oh...i cant wait!!!!! :D

My opinion? It's ALL of the interpretations. And it's hard to see why not, at the least, most of them could be true:

Hallows as Horcruxes: we know Horcruxes will play a part already.

Hallows as People: the voices behind the veil are the obvious ones here.

Hallows as a Place: either the veil itself, the world behind it, a magical cave of Merlin's where Dumbledore learned unknown magic, a graveyard in Hogwarts - all plausible, and with the exception of Merlin's cave all could easily play a role

Hallows as Arthurian Legend: this would tie in with the graveyard and the Horcruxes.

I think the title is deliberately ambiguous for giving us somehting to speculate intensely about and/or refer to many things in the book. Look at the previous titles - all of them referred to a very specific (if unknown in the details) things. The ambiguity of Book 7's title is I think not an accident.

I agree. First I though it was refering to the horcruxes, but reading the hundreds of theories made me think that it could refer to all of the above. It is the last book after all, so it is not unreasonable to think that Jo might have chosen a title that would fit all of the issues that the book is going to be dealing with.

Hallow means; to make or set apart as holy or to respect or honor greatly; revere To give over by or as if by vow to a higher purpose: consecrate, dedicate, devote.
To make sacred by a religious rite: bless, consecrate, sanctify.
I do not know what she has in mind, but I know that there is alot of spectulation, I think that it may possibly have something to do with the horcruxe's; they are very sacred to Voldemort. The places that they are hidden is very sacred to Voldemort that is why no one else knows where they are hidden, he holds them in high regard. But it could be something all together differant, I guess we will have to wait for the book to find out.

Hallowed-something sacred
Deathly-someone or something that can create death

sacred death creator?

I think it's possible that the dead may be involved in the defeat of Voldemort . . . but if they are, at the end of the book they'll go back beyond the Veil. JKR has been too adamant about saying that the dead don't come back in any real form (unlike pensieves and portraits) to change that now.

Hm, maybe they'll come back "from beyond the veil" In a form similar to those echoes that came out of Voldemorts wand? Perhaps?

sacred death creator?

Creator of Sacred Death (Soul)?

What about the thestrals having to do something with deatly hallows or maybe even being the deathly hallows themselves. I mean JKR obviously introduced them for a reason. I really don't think that this reason could be just to give harry and his friends a lift to the MoM. I think that they're in the books for a bigger reason and plus they certainly have a lot to do with the word death.

What about the thestrals having to do something with deatly hallows or maybe even being the deathly hallows themselves. I mean JKR obviously introduced them for a reason. I really don't think that this reason could be just to give harry and his friends a lift to the MoM. I think that they're in the books for a bigger reason and plus they certainly have a lot to do with the word death.


Wow.. I have to admit i never thought of that before, but it's an interesting point. I'm almost certain that there's nothing that we can speculate about it that will come close enough to the real meaning of this title. Even so, aside from this very good point about the thestrals (which as i alredy said is most ilustrating), i read somewhere else that maybe this could mean some sort of sacred ritual (that could turn out deathly) to fight Avada Kedavra. Even though it's said many many times no curse or charm can stop this one (or at least is not known), maybe there is a way, about to be discovered for Harry or somebody else.

Perhaps, i don't now.. just thinking here..

its a place where old wizaeds live......mabye

hmmm... maybe it has something to do with the seven deadly sins and the seven heavenly virtues? I dunno. "Deathly" made me think of "deadly", and "hallow" is to set something as holy/reverence, so my mind just jumped to that... Once again, I'm just providing far out stuff i find here... :blush:

It would fit with the "7" clues and 7 being powerful. Oh well. Just an idea. I doubt that Jo would introduce it in the books, but I with all the connections all over the place I decided to give my idea a shot...

Actually I have another synonym for you. After hearing the title I did some research and in my friend's dictionary is says under Hallow: see halloo.
so I looked that up too and it states in MY dictionary that a halloo is a cry/yell, an urging on to hounds, or a hunting cry. So maybe it means Deathly Cries.



OK, taking from this the Deathly Cries, and someone else mentioned the Veil. Obviously we have not even begun to here anything about the Veil in the books. Perhaps the Deathly Cries (= Deathly Hallows) are the voices from behind the Veil. Someone else went into talking about The Draught of Living Death, but it is a heavy sleeping potion so that wouldn't work, but perhaps Harry can take isomething and go behind the Veil and find out what it is really all about, talk to sirius, or who ever else is behind there, or perhaps it takes him somewhere, hopefully he wouldn't get stuck. Or maybe instead of doing all of that he will just be told about the Veil who knows....anybody? :tu:? :td:?

-Ema

I love the Veil theory too Ema. It would be strange for us not to see the veil being ventured into or mentioned again in book 7.

However, my far fetched theory starts with Rodolphus's brother Rabastan (R.A.B) has the Locket horcrux and is located at Azkaban. Here me out because remember Dumbledore says to Harry in HBP he visited Azkaban to retreive Morphins memory and later said he died there and was buried beyond its walls like so many others. This leads me to think there is some kind of grave yard located near Azkaban. If (R.A.B) is dead like the note in the locket states:

To the Dark Lord

I know I will be dead long before you read this
but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret.
I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can.
I face death in the hope that when you meet your match,
you will be mortal once more.

R.A.B.

If hypothetically speaking he is buried beyond the walls of Azkaban, is the locket buried with him? Was it ever destroyed by him like he intented? To me when you look into his words of "I face death in the hope that when you meet your match,
you will be mortal once more." That to me sounds like facing death in itself what could be more deathly than being in Azkaban with dementors apart from being face to face with Voldemort. I know alot of you are linking "Deathly Hallows" to Gordics Hallow, but just for a moment think outside the box. Would J.K really make the location of a piece of Voldemorts soul in a house so obvious to the readers?

After looking into many forums and research of J.K's writing style she tends to link names and events to historical land marks and traditions of the real world. For example "Halloween"-"Hallow" is known to be the awakening of the dead. Will Harry be visiting a graveyard? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt Harry dream of a graveyard in OOTP and not linked to the one of GOF with Tom Riddles (Voldemorts Father) grave. It was only mentioned once and doesn't go into any detail of the graveyard and if it's different to the one from the following year which he encountered. Is this another early warning for Harry concludind the final destination in book 7? The way J.K described his dream was just brushed over, could we be fooled into assuming it was just a memory dream of the graveyard from GOF?

The reason I have the theory of Azkaban being a location visited in book 7 is because it's always talked about and feared in all 6 books, why wouldn't J.K use this locaton? Another reasoning for the locket not to be at Gordics Hallow is why would the location Voldemorts Horcrux be so obvious surely something so important wouldnt be found so easily. This is just a far fetched theory but in the books Azkaban is described as the worst place to be in the wizarding world...which leads me to think it has something to do with the deathly hallows.

I quick small theory for those who have mentioned Dumbledore returning and those who think his dead. In GOF after the triwizard cup is over and Harry mentions his encounter with his parents remember Dumbledore kindly finishes with "No spell can re-awaken the dead Harry, I trust you know that..." But can potion? Will Snape return with the antidote after all in the first book TPS he qoutes "I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death." Will Snapes famous potion skills come to play and is he still faithful to Dumbledore like a percentage of us fear he isn't?

If you have any corrections or comments to this theory please feel free to add your opinion! Please just dont get nasty I'm just another person with their opinion and happy to share :D

I don't think that is far fetched at all, that's a really good theory, I never thought about Rabastan. I like the idea of the locket being just beyond Azkaban and Harry going there, that way we can really know what it's like. I always think the Regulus is too obvious to be R.A.B. Who knows though. GOOD JOB THOUGH!

Do you like the title? Does it make you feel like the book is going to be dark and dramatic?

I, personally, feel that the title makes the book sound dark, though, when the title was released, I just wanted to read it more. I think that, because of the title, there will be alot of Deaths involved. I dont think the book will be dramatic, but I do think it will be more serious and have more exciting moments, etc. I also think that it will have more pain, emotional and physical. What are your thoughts, pertaining to the title?

I think That Harry Potter is going to team up with Kurasaki, Ichigo and together they will kill Captain Aizen and Lord Voldemort and deafeat the Hollows/Hallows!

Well I read that there is going to be two more deaths in this book so... I just hope that will be only those deaths and no more, but yeah I think that book 7 is going to be the darkest and more dramatic, sure, I mean it´s the last book , how couldn´t it be more dramatic than the others???

There´s is going to be defenitely more emotional pain (specially for us:upset: right?) in this book, but I don´t think that the title has anything to do with the entire content of it, there´s also going to be a lot of romance, and action so it´s not only going to be sad and dark...

can´t wait:drool:

The title "Deathly Hallows" makes me want to read it even more. :D
It will be grim, yeah, but that's what makes most literature powerful.
I seriously can not WAIT. ahhh.
haha.

I don't think that anyone has posted this theory yet, so here:

Deathly Hallows= Godric's Hollow and such

I know, they have a different spelling. But maybe, just maybe, there is Salazar's hollow, or something like that. Related somewhat to the theory that the Hallows are the Founders of Hogwarts. Maybe deathly because that's what Voldemort uses to scare people (death), or because the founders have been dead for so long. Or because they're so old...

His parent's graves are also in Godric's Hollow.

I know alot of you are linking "Deathly Hallows" to Gordics Hallow, but just for a moment think outside the box. Would J.K really make the location of a piece of Voldemorts soul in a house so obvious to the readers?

Did a lot of other people really think that? If so, I didn't notice. Is anyone else even thinking something like my theory?

What about the thestrals having to do something with deatly hallows or maybe even being the deathly hallows themselves. I mean JKR obviously introduced them for a reason. I really don't think that this reason could be just to give harry and his friends a lift to the MoM. I think that they're in the books for a bigger reason and plus they certainly have a lot to do with the word death.


Hmm ... that's a really interesting theory. I'm wondering if expanding on that ... If the "Thestrals" can move between the live world ... and the spirit world? That would be interesting, if the Thestrals were able to take Harry behind the veil and bring him back.

I also like the Halloween / Thin veil Idea. I could see perhaps Harry's mirror contacting a spirit on a night where the veil is thinnest ... perhaps that's how he'll be able to talk to Sirius once more? And gain a greater knowledge about destroying Voldemort.

I really believe that the Title has something to do with the Veil, and the locked room in the Department of Mysteries. I wonder if the locked room is the Deathly Hallows?

One person said earlier that Deathly and Hallows can't actually coincide as a phrase together, which leads me to believe it's an actual place rather than a connotation of a Hallowing of Death.

Just some Ideas, these threads are fantastic.

Thanks Ema, I'm glad my theory doesnt sound too bizarre.
Also surrypotter. I'm still wondering about that veil theory myself it has to be seen somewhere in book 7. I think it would be a real shame for that mirror between Sirius and Harry to not come into play once more. I mean he left so suddenly there just has to be an explaination as to where exactly he is. If he is trapped in some kind of half mortal half deceased world behind that veil.

I just though it would be different to think outside the box a little instead at pointing at theories that are rather obvious. J.K is an intelligent woman and I don't believe that the 7th books ending wont be anything other than nearly impossible to figure out. I believe some of the answers to alot of our questions are carefully covered up in the books in pages we least expect to find them. I know I have alot of burning questions about alot of topics for the 7th book, but the most intriguing ones I want answers for are:

- When Harry and Voldemorts wands connected (Priori Incantatem) did harry really see his parents that night? If no spell can awaken the dead.
- Why exactly was Harry destined for the wand that was so closey related to Voldemorts?
- What did Harrys Parents do for a living?
- Does Aunt petunia show signs of magic?
- Is the reason Snape was so resentful to Harry was because he was jealous of James Potter Marrying Lilly. Did Snape love/like Lilly Evans after all they bother were talented at potions.

so so many questions...

I think the title is a bit too overdramatic. I mean.... "Deathly"? If Deathly Hallows is the name of a location, then that's all right, but there are so many adjective that would have been more suitable for a title than "deathly."

Hallowoman, did you avoid my question, or is it just a coincidence that I didn't hear anything from you about my question? Please reply.
I'm sorry if I offended you. I just quoted you, and hoped that you would respond. (I'm directing this at Hallowoman too)

I like it. I think it gets the point that this isn't a "feel-good" book. It's a "there is some deep s*** going on-Deal with it!"

hem hem I haven't avoided your question ;) yours is a tough one to answer actually your theory is the first I've heard. The founders of Hogwarts are more than likey linked dramatically to the facts and possibly more horcrux's. I think you may be onto something actually.

I'm so excited about this book! at the same time, I feel that this book will be about crucial events that will be placing their life in a grave danger.

Wow! Thank you! I think you may be the first person to respond positively to my theory!

There appears to be another thread on this topic... This one may end up being merged with the other.

Iv'e been thinking about your theory closely and I've looked over these possibilitys and joined them to my own theory about Harry going to Azkaban for the locket R.A.B stole.

If there is a Godric Hallow is there a:

Salazar Hallow
Helga Hallow
Rowena Hallow

From research a Hallow is closely linked to "Halloween" which is reknown for celebrating the awakening of the deceased. The title says Hallow's meaning plural more that one location ..more than one hallow. One of the hallows could even possible be behind the veil it would make sense hallow is such an eerie word and sounds like a place of the deceased.

Hemhem's theory could possibly mean something more than just more hallows. These Hallow's could be the resting places of the unfound horux's. I personally believe one of the hallows' is located near Azkaban possibly. I believe the founders too also will play a massive part in book 7 and their most prized possesions which Voldemort collected with a evil obsession. The only possesion he didnt manage to steal was the sword from Griffindor this is why he wanted to return to hogwarts so badly for a teaching postion so he could steal the last of the founders reknown items.

someone sugested rabastian as r.a.b but his surname is lestrange so it doesnt fit

Hi All,

As some of my friends have already pointed out that it is "Deathly" Hallows and not "Deadly" hallows. So I have some theories of mine also.

I think this title refers to "Voices of Dead". In 7th book these voices are going to play a very important role.

In my opinion, 7th book might be a dull affair because the emphasis will be on harry's compassion, love and emotions (a power which Voldemort lacks) which will help harry to defeat the evilness of Voldemort. If people remember then in HBP, Dumbledore was curious to know if Harry felt some pity for tom riddle junior in his orphange days. I think this the power that will free Voldemort of his evil ways and it is possible that both (harry and voldemort) may not die in the end because the aim is to vanquish the evil not the evil doer.

The emphasis will not be on powerful magic and counter curses and some high voltage action of superb wand work but it will be on the power of heart to love the person with in.

thats a clever theory abhinav

I'd like to think that Harry's power of love and compassion is more powerful than any spell performed in the wizarding world.

Also to eowyn: Rabastan does have the last name lestrange yes, but the letters R.A.B doesn't necessarily has to mean intials as such like first-second and last name.

Like in POA no one would have guessed sirus's nick name as padfoot & Peter as wormtail. R.A.B indeed could be anyone.

In my opinion, 7th book might be a dull affair because the emphasis will be on harry's compassion, love and emotions (a power which Voldemort lacks) which will help harry to defeat the evilness of Voldemort. If people remember then in HBP, Dumbledore was curious to know if Harry felt some pity for tom riddle junior in his orphange days. I think this the power that will free Voldemort of his evil ways and it is possible that both (harry and voldemort) may not die in the end because the aim is to vanquish the evil not the evil doer.

To quote Professor Trelawney (am I spelling it correctly?) "Neither can live while the other survives".

Like I heard one of the Mugglecaster's say..

"There's death on the front cover."

I am a little confused. On Amazon the German site they have the book title as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows where Deathly Hallows is not translated. Is that the official title for the German book because if it is then the fact that it is untranslated suggests that it is the name of a place or a group of people or creatures.

I have some thoughts about what we will se in the 7th book.

1.
We will see more of Snape's pensive, I'm sure he did not remember to take it with him from his office.
As I see it it would be a good idea if the trio learned all they could about Snape as well as about Voldemort, so in the search for information about Snape, they will most likely come across the pensive again, if Snape has not destroyed it, or moved it after Harry used it.

2.
We will return to the Riddle manison, posibly to find out who currently owns it. In GoF there is only a small reference to the owner, personally I think this is lucius malfoy, but who knows...

3.
We will return to Hogwarts, if not to attend school then to use the libary or talk to students/teachers.

4.
The trio will identify the remaining Horcruxes and destroy these.

5.
Harry will become a very good Occlumist (not spelled correctly, I'm sorry ;)) and will also be very good at performing unspoken magic.

i cant wait to read it .. but im danish so i have no idea what hallow mean ? perhaps i should look it up.

but in the end i dont care what she calls the book, im gonna read no matter what.

I think it's a great title, and in my opinion it makes the book a lot more appealing; because it has an air of mystery about it and as said above, it seems a lot more "dark".
This is what a lot of people desire and have been pleased with - as the series has continued the books have got considerably darker and the title of the final book definitely suggests that this book is going to be significantly more sinister than those that precede it.

I am a little confused. On Amazon the German site they have the book title as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows where Deathly Hallows is not translated. Is that the official title for the German book because if it is then the fact that it is untranslated suggests that it is the name of a place or a group of people or creatures.


I don't think the official translations have been made yet :)

I think people are reading the word 'hallows' in the wrong way. I'm the only person whos mentioned a link to halloween......

Halloween used to be called 'all hallows eve', which, as it so happens, was the day harrys parents were killed. therefore hallows is refering to the night of there death.

'Deathly Hallows' basically means 'the night harrys parents were killed', or 'the murder at halloween' (something like that).

I therefore think that 'hallows' is not an object or a place, but a time, halloween. therefore, the title is forshowing that harry will have to visit godrics hollow, where his parents lived, and look back to the night that voldy murdered his parents. the book will then, lead on from this and show harry finding something out about the horcruxes.

jk has said we will find out more about harrys parents, and about the night they were killed. there is clearly something significant about that night, to do with the horcruxes. And i don't think its a chance that 'halloween' or 'all hallows eve' was the night voldy murdered james and lily....

what do people reckon????

I think people are reading the word 'hallows' in the wrong way. I'm the only person whos mentioned a link to halloween......

Halloween used to be called 'all hallows eve', which, as it so happens, was the day harrys parents were killed. therefore hallows is refering to the night of there death.

'Deathly Hallows' basically means 'the night harrys parents were killed', or 'the murder at halloween' (something like that).

I therefore think that 'hallows' is not an object or a place, but a time, halloween. therefore, the title is forshowing that harry will have to visit godrics hollow, where his parents lived, and look back to the night that voldy murdered his parents. the book will then, lead on from this and show harry finding something out about the horcruxes.

jk has said we will find out more about harrys parents, and about the night they were killed. there is clearly something significant about that night, to do with the horcruxes. And i don't think its a chance that 'halloween' or 'all hallows eve' was the night voldy murdered james and lily....

what do people reckon????
But the 'Hallows' in 'All Hallows Eve' are the deceased saints, whose souls were supposed to be able to visit the earth on 'All Hallows Eve.' November 1 is also known as All Saints Day. So if there is a Halloween connection, it would make more sense for the deathly hallows to be the deceased soulds who for some reason are blocked from going on to where souls should go - maybe the ghosts, maybe those whose manner of death prevents crossing over but who did not choose to be ghosts. Maybe this would be the spirits of all those Inferi Voldie made - I figure they have a bone to pick with Voldie.

I don't think the official translations have been made yet :)No and that makes me wonder why not. Perhaps there is no translation if it is the name of something as other named places or characters have been left the way they are in previous books.

But the 'Hallows' in 'All Hallows Eve' are the deceased saints, whose souls were supposed to be able to visit the earth on 'All Hallows Eve.' November 1 is also known as All Saints Day. So if there is a Halloween connection, it would make more sense for the deathly hallows to be the deceased soulds who for some reason are blocked from going on to where souls should go - maybe the ghosts, maybe those whose manner of death prevents crossing over but who did not choose to be ghosts. Maybe this would be the spirits of all those Inferi Voldie made - I figure they have a bone to pick with Voldie.

i agree with you...again another reference to the word 'hallows'! there seems to be a connection between what ive said and what you've mentioned. it is possible that the word 'hallows' has more than one meaning?

your idea is also interesting as previously in the books harry has asked sir nic (the gryfindor ghost) about what happens when you die. mmmm...interesting...i reckon your on to something really relevnt there....

ghosts...death...saints...crossing over....halloween...
there must be some kind of relevant connection.....?

Yes, I'd agree there. The thing is, though, that JKR does not use the 'classic' lore just as received. She defines things, such as werewolves, phoenices, basilisks, trolls, gnomes, elves, etc. in ways that suit the stories she tells. The concepts are still closely enough related to the tradinitional notions, and yet have various properties and nuances that the traditions don;t include. So you cannot just take a classic bit of lore, whether Halloween, the Arthurian legends, alchemy, tarot or any other, and just assume there is going to be a close tracking of them in the HP books.

Yes, I'd agree there. The thing is, though, that JKR does not use the 'classic' lore just as received. She defines things, such as werewolves, phoenices, basilisks, trolls, gnomes, elves, etc. in ways that suit the stories she tells. The concepts are still closely enough related to the tradinitional notions, and yet have various properties and nuances that the traditions don;t include. So you cannot just take a classic bit of lore, whether Halloween, the Arthurian legends, alchemy, tarot or any other, and just assume there is going to be a close tracking of them in the HP books.

Again i agree with you. Because of the complex story of HP, i don't think its possible for anyone to know for sure what will happen in deathly hallows, whatever the title reveals. There are things we don't know yet, that could turn the story up-side-down! And jk wouldn't give away an entire plot in two words! But whatever happens there is relevance in the words 'deathly hallows'...and i don't know about anyone elae, but those words make me creep...this books gunna be dark!!!

I guess we'll just have to wait and see......

someone sugested rabastian as r.a.b but his surname is lestrange so it doesnt fit

Yes, that is true, but the first three letters of his name are R-A-B.

I have another thing to say about Sirius. Yes, I believe that he is indeed dead. So many told Harry so, but I wonder if they really know what the Veil is or if they just know that once Sirius went into it he was gone. I really hope the story of Sirius doesn't go untouched too much and that we do know what happened to him, I think the story wouldn't be complete without it.

Maybe there are some of potions or rituals that are able either to prevent death, or to prevent great dangers, but that are way too complicated and risky to do or perform.

These might be,again, the deathly hallows.

Eva

The word "hallow" as a verb means to consecrate (make holy) or to bless. As a noun--as it is in the title--it would mean something holy, sacred, blessed. This could refer to the "good dead," but not to all dead. Cemeteries are generally hallowed. And certainly deathly.

I have some thoughts about what we will se in the 7th book.

1.
We will see more of Snape's pensive, I'm sure he did not remember to take it with him from his office.
As I see it it would be a good idea if the trio learned all they could about Snape as well as about Voldemort, so in the search for information about Snape, they will most likely come across the pensive again, if Snape has not destroyed it, or moved it after Harry used it.

I'm pretty the pensieve was borrowed from Dumbledore and not Snapes. In that case he gave it back to him.

2.
We will return to the Riddle manison, posibly to find out who currently owns it. In GoF there is only a small reference to the owner, personally I think this is lucius malfoy, but who knows...

I really don't think that Lucius owns the house, no one lived there. Frank Bryce took care of it. Lucius has his own house. I am sure that it is still abandoned.

3.
We will return to Hogwarts, if not to attend school then to use the libary or talk to students/teachers.

I believe that we will see Hogwarts again. However Harry probably will not attend, he is too busy. I don't think that he will need the library, he has Hermione, and could always ask someone older, I couldn't see him going back to the school just to use the library. Anyone he would really need to talk to are already in the order. He might go back to search the school, to talk to Trelawney, or to Nearly Headless Nick.

4.
The trio will identify the remaining Horcruxes and destroy these.

But of course haha, I think that is the whole point of the book.:lol:

5.
Harry will become a very good Occlumist (not spelled correctly, I'm sorry ;)) and will also be very good at performing unspoken magic.

I really hope that Harry master Occlumency because I think without it he is lost, he needs to keep his mind and mouth shut.

-Ema

But the 'Hallows' in 'All Hallows Eve' are the deceased saints, whose souls were supposed to be able to visit the earth on 'All Hallows Eve.' November 1 is also known as All Saints Day. So if there is a Halloween connection, it would make more sense for the deathly hallows to be the deceased soulds who for some reason are blocked from going on to where souls should go - maybe the ghosts, maybe those whose manner of death prevents crossing over but who did not choose to be ghosts. Maybe this would be the spirits of all those Inferi Voldie made - I figure they have a bone to pick with Voldie.


:tu: ----On the 'bone to pick with Voldie' part. Well said. Nice play on words too..'bone.'

I found on mugglenet the foreign titles of book 7.

"Harry Potter und die todbringenden Heiligen" (German)
"Harry Potter et les saints mortuaires/mortels" (French, "Deathly/Mortal Saints")
"Harry Potter y los santos de la muerte" (Spanish, "Saints of Death")
"Harry Potter e l rito moratle" (Italian, "Deadly Ritual")
"Harry Potter e os Santos Mortuários" (Portuguese, "Deathly Saints")
"Harry Potter ve Olumcul Takdis" (Turkish, "Deadly Blessing")
"Hari Poter i Smrtonosni Blagoslovi" (Serbian)
"Harry Potter si Ingerii Mortii" (Romanian, "Angels of Death")
"Harry Potter i sveci smrtnici" (Croatian, "Mortal Saints")
"Harry Potter ja Surmapühakud" (Estonian, "Saints of Death")
"Harry Potter ve Ruchot Hamavet" (Hebrew, "Spirits of Death")
All of these have to do with Saints or Spirits of Death. Can anyone say 'martyr'? My guess is that Harry will become a martyr, as the titles suggest, and that Voldemort will die too, when Harry dies to give Ron, Hermione and/or Ginny the chance to stop him. (Yes, Ginny is going too.)

hehehehehee....
helgas powder puff :D

i had a question, when harry destroys a horcrux, does LVs soul go back to him or is it destroyed also?


thats a good question. i believe that that fragment of the soul would just like disappear because it would have nothing to be cased in for protection. kind of like those monsters in the first scooby doo movie. they needed a human body to protect them from the sun like a super strong sunscreen. As for my views on the new book title, i think its completely depressing and that the movie cant come out soon enough.

Originally Posted by durre_b
hehehehehee....
helgas powder puff

i had a question, when harry destroys a horcrux, does LVs soul go back to him or is it destroyed also?

I believe that like the note from R.A.B says that when he dies that Voldemort will be mortal once more. By voldemort being mortal he will be at the hands of whoever finally distroys him and will die like any other mortal character in the book. Once the horux's are gone there is nothing left connecting him to the living world.

Hmm ... that's a really interesting theory. I'm wondering if expanding on that ... If the "Thestrals" can move between the live world ... and the spirit world? That would be interesting, if the Thestrals were able to take Harry behind the veil and bring him back.

I also like the Halloween / Thin veil Idea. I could see perhaps Harry's mirror contacting a spirit on a night where the veil is thinnest ... perhaps that's how he'll be able to talk to Sirius once more? And gain a greater knowledge about destroying Voldemort.

I really believe that the Title has something to do with the Veil, and the locked room in the Department of Mysteries. I wonder if the locked room is the Deathly Hallows?

One person said earlier that Deathly and Hallows can't actually coincide as a phrase together, which leads me to believe it's an actual place rather than a connotation of a Hallowing of Death.

Just some Ideas, these threads are fantastic.

I completely agree, its all in how Jo worded the title. "Deathly Hallows" it really doesn't give any other justifiable meaning that I can see besides that it is indeed a place.

I also like the idea about the thestrals still having a part to play, especially with the possiblity of going to and from both sides of the Veil.

I just thought of something else pretty interesting about the Veil theories. If a soul/spirit can come into this realm then what stops the opposite from happening. Say for instance Harry convinced NHN to go back across the Veil and possibly retrieve Sirius, or even Dumbledore or Harry's parents. If not being able to bring someone else back, possibly relay information back and forth on the day(s) that the Veil is thinnest.

The locked room in DoM is also interesting to me, as Jo has introduced so many abstract ideas to us as a second thought. Almost like walking by something and not paying any attention to it at the time, getting home later and saying to yourself " was that really..." Then reintroducing the idea a book or so later to make it a major factor in what is going on. I believe that the locked door will have some major secrets hidden inside, i don't know what, but that would be an interesting thread.

I am currently re-reading books 1-6 now just to see if i can scrounge up any "passerby" info that i wasn't keen on the first few times i read them. Let me know what you think of some of these ideas.

Yes, I'd agree there. The thing is, though, that JKR does not use the 'classic' lore just as received. She defines things, such as werewolves, phoenices, basilisks, trolls, gnomes, elves, etc. in ways that suit the stories she tells. The concepts are still closely enough related to the tradinitional notions, and yet have various properties and nuances that the traditions don;t include. So you cannot just take a classic bit of lore, whether Halloween, the Arthurian legends, alchemy, tarot or any other, and just assume there is going to be a close tracking of them in the HP books.

I have to agree with you on the Halloween notion. 1st because well ... the books don't END on Halloween, and if the Deathly Hallows refers to Halloween, we'd really only have half a school year. 2nd if there is a reference to Halloween, I could see JKR having Harry learn about the "Deathly Hallows" on Halloween, but not go to that place or utilize that 'whatever' until the end of the book, or springtime, AKA ... the final Showdown!!!

I completely agree, its all in how Jo worded the title. "Deathly Hallows" it really doesn't give any other justifiable meaning that I can see besides that it is indeed a place.

I also like the idea about the thestrals still having a part to play, especially with the possiblity of going to and from both sides of the Veil.

I just thought of something else pretty interesting about the Veil theories. If a soul/spirit can come into this realm then what stops the opposite from happening. Say for instance Harry convinced NHN to go back across the Veil and possibly retrieve Sirius, or even Dumbledore or Harry's parents. If not being able to bring someone else back, possibly relay information back and forth on the day(s) that the Veil is thinnest.

The locked room in DoM is also interesting to me, as Jo has introduced so many abstract ideas to us as a second thought. Almost like walking by something and not paying any attention to it at the time, getting home later and saying to yourself " was that really..." Then reintroducing the idea a book or so later to make it a major factor in what is going on. I believe that the locked door will have some major secrets hidden inside, i don't know what, but that would be an interesting thread.

I am currently re-reading books 1-6 now just to see if i can scrounge up any "passerby" info that i wasn't keen on the first few times i read them. Let me know what you think of some of these ideas.

Okay ... I've been racking my brain trying to think of who NHN might be. You're gonna have to help me out there. If Ghosts were able to travel back and forth across the veil during the Halloween time, we would have heard of it by now, in Potterverse. So I hate to have to sort of put that idea by the wayside but, JKR has stated irrefutably that people cannot return from the dead. It was a great idea ... and if the Potterverse hadn't been so elaborate up til now would have been feasible. What may still be feasible is the relating messages portion of that theory. I really can see somehow those that have 'crossed over' being able to relay information to the living when this veil is the thinnest.

Okay ... I've been racking my brain trying to think of who NHN might be.
NHN=Nearly Headless Nick

If Ghosts were able to travel back and forth across the veil during the Halloween time, we would have heard of it by now, in Potterverse. So I hate to have to sort of put that idea by the wayside but, JKR has stated irrefutably that people cannot return from the dead.
I got the impression the Veil was sort of top secret to everyone but the Unspeakables (and Dumbledore). Ghosts travelling back and forth through the Veil wouldn't exactly be 'returning from the dead'.

NHN=Nearly Headless Nick


I got the impression the Veil was sort of top secret to everyone but the Unspeakables (and Dumbledore). Ghosts travelling back and forth through the Veil wouldn't exactly be 'returning from the dead'.

First on the NHN ... Thank you ... I'm nearly smacking my head and saying to myself ... "FREAKIN DUH!!!"

When I referred to them returning from the dead it was in reference to them 'bringing someone else back with them'. I can certainly see them being able to communicate on both levels utlizing the veil. And it's a good theory, until JKR squashes it. :) But you're right, none of the Ghosts would know about the Veil. I wonder though, don't you find it interesting that there aren't any references to Ghosts roaming around the Ministry of Magic, you would think that Ghosts would be able to roam round nearly any Magical haunt?

First on the NHN ... Thank you ... I'm nearly smacking my head and saying to myself ... "FREAKIN DUH!!!"

When I referred to them returning from the dead it was in reference to them 'bringing someone else back with them'. I can certainly see them being able to communicate on both levels utlizing the veil. And it's a good theory, until JKR squashes it. :) But you're right, none of the Ghosts would know about the Veil. I wonder though, don't you find it interesting that there aren't any references to Ghosts roaming around the Ministry of Magic, you would think that Ghosts would be able to roam round nearly any Magical haunt?


Can't help thinking of Ghostbusters, wizards running around caputing ghosts and sending them through the Veil.... :D Anywayz, interesting theory this is...

i was thinking is there any chance that people like trlawney can talk to the dead its a form of magic we havnt seen yet but im sure it exists it would come in very handy they could have 'harry potter and the most haunted live at hogwarts' lol its funny to imagine yevette running round hogwarts screaming with Mc Gonacall and hermione giving her dirty looks

Ummm.... I was just wondering. Has it struck anyone as odd that DH could be referring to a graveyard. I mean the founders have to be burried somewhere... don't they? Anyway, I have no idea as to how this would relate to the story, but as many have said already the title doesn't always have to do with the main plot of the story. I don't know, but maybe DD. is burried there or something.

Also, another thought that I had on this graveyard idea is that perhaps Harry fights Voldemort in the graveyard (the one that he went to in GOF.) again.

I remember that some scenes in the PoA movie were going to be set in a graveyard, but Jo said no, because a graveyard was going to be important later. I always thought that she was referring to Dumbledore's tomb, but it could also be referring to the Deathly Hallows.

I think this is the second time I've posted on this board. I'm more of a lurker.

Here's my theory:

There is a town in Mexico called Oxaca. People there celebrate "Dios de la Meurte", the Day of the Dead. It takes place every year on Halloween, when souls of the dead are said to return for a few hours to the world of the living. They are able to communicate with their living relatives if only for a short time.

I believe the Deathly Hallows are the spirits of James and Lily. Harry will visit his parents' graves on Halloween, near Godric's Hollow. James and Lily will tell Harry what happened the night they died and they will tell Harry an important piece of information about Voldemort, which will lead to Voldemort's demise.

Hal-low (hælou) v.t. to make holy or sacred; to revere as holy
sacred/holy deaths? idk -.-
harrys gonna die :grumble:

I have to agree with you on the Halloween notion. 1st because well ... the books don't END on Halloween, and if the Deathly Hallows refers to Halloween, we'd really only have half a school year. 2nd if there is a reference to Halloween, I could see JKR having Harry learn about the "Deathly Hallows" on Halloween, but not go to that place or utilize that 'whatever' until the end of the book, or springtime, AKA ... the final Showdown!!!

i don't think 'deathly hallows' is a place or an object. the significance of the word 'hallows' is that it could refer to the old phrase for halloween, 'all hallows eve', which was THE DAY LILY AND JAMES WERE KILLED!!! that doesn't mean the book will end on halloween! it is possible that the title is a referance to harry parents deaths, which will then lead harry back to godrics hollow, the place they were killed!

i think my theory fits well with the story, and what we know about book 7, for example, jk said harry will find out more about his parents, and why they were so rich. also, we suspect harry will return to godrics hollow. which then leads on to the question, what's the significance of godrics hollow!? something to do with godric gryffindor???

for me, anyway, it all seems to fit that the word 'hallows' is a reference to a specific TIME, rather than a place or an object. the reference gives a trail for harry to follow...a way to lead him on with his quest! :D

Hal-low (hælou) v.t. to make holy or sacred; to revere as holy
sacred/holy deaths? idk -.-
harrys gonna die :grumble:

I highly doubt it. The word is deathly not deadly.

Anyways - The veil theory is very interesting along with the locked room at the Ministry. The problem I have with that is - Will Harry have access to the DOM/MOM? It will surely be under tighter security and I dont think they will give Harry a free pass to do as he pleases.

I am pretty confident that the "Deathly Hallows" is a place. If we look at the past titles it just seems common sense to think this is the place. The curious part is why is it called "Deathly Hallows" is it called that before or after the big finish? Hmmm

It is true, as some of you have noted, that JKR takes those seemingly insignificant or ignorable things and uses them as an important piece in a later book. I am actively considering what could she use in this book. (She has used several times in books about the kids coming together not just the houses of Hogwarts but also all the schools mentioned in book 4. Could students from Durmstrang and Beaubaton lead by Krum fill in the ranks behind Dumbledores Army? Could Nagini be the very snake that Harry released in book one? Harry's mirror that Sirius gave him - does it work on those days when the veil is thinnist.)

Another thought : On the website www.mugglenet.com there is a story that tells of other possible translations of this deathly hallows in other languages ie "Saints of death", "Angels of death", "Spirits of death". While I still think this is a place maybe it give a little insight on the role of the Order of the Pheonix or Harry and his group.

I dunno - I'm probably just babbling.

Continue the search friends...

But you're right, none of the Ghosts would know about the Veil. I wonder though, don't you find it interesting that there aren't any references to Ghosts roaming around the Ministry of Magic, you would think that Ghosts would be able to roam round nearly any Magical haunt?
Perhaps the Ministry don't want ghosts finding out about a potential window to the dead which they might be able to exploit. I was reading Fantastic Beasts and ghosts seem to have been maligned in the magical world in a similar way to centaurs (being classified as Beings initially). Ghosts seem to be tied to their place of death, this being enforced by the Ministry. I don't know what would have happened if Sirius had become a ghost, maybe the Unspeakables would have to put up with him in the Veil room.

Thinking about the ghosts gave me this idea. Remember that Nick said that a wizard (specifically a wizard not a muggle) had to do something to become a ghost, and that Sirius was too brave to do such a thing. The implication was that it was an evil, or at least unnatural, thing, because it kept the soul from crossing over. Perhaps what a wizard must bo before death to keep hiw soul from crossing over is to put his soul in an object. It is the entire soul placed in the object. The ghost is bound to stay within a certain range of the object. Now the object would be a horcrux if it received only a part of the soul, and the un'horcruxed' part of the soul could inhabit a regenerated body. But without an unbound soulpiece, the ghosts cannot inhabit a regenerated body.

Now the object that receives the wizard's soul so s/he can become a ghost would be hallowed by receiving a whole soul, and that hallowing would be sealed (made irreversible to the wizard) upon the wizard's death - hence it is a 'deathly hallow.' Perhaps Nick will learn of Harry's quest and be able to offer help from himself and other ghosts who would like their souls released from their deathly happows so they can go on to where they ought to be. This help could be knowledge of how to safely release soulpieces, how to locate them, where Voldie's are (they may be just as obvious to a ghost as an enormous zit on someone's face is to us), or a number of other things.

A definition of Hallows:

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival

I posted this in the Deathly Hallow/Veil thread, but maybe ill get more feed back here:

I love the idea of the Veil but I just had a thought:
Many people are predicting Harry's death, mostly because the believe the JKR will not want someone continuing her story.
However, if Harry finds a way to communicate, or even go through the Veil, then it would open up the possibility of communicating or even using Harry's character after he is dead.
Does that mean that you can only believe that either, Harry is going to die or that Harry will communicate with the dead?
What do you think?

Ummm.... I was just wondering. Has it struck anyone as odd that DH could be referring to a graveyard. I mean the founders have to be burried somewhere... don't they? Anyway, I have no idea as to how this would relate to the story, but as many have said already the title doesn't always have to do with the main plot of the story. I don't know, but maybe DD. is burried there or something.

Also, another thought that I had on this graveyard idea is that perhaps Harry fights Voldemort in the graveyard (the one that he went to in GOF.) again.


This has actually been discussed numerous times, and in numerous different threads.


Here's my theory:

There is a town in Mexico called Oxaca. People there celebrate "Dios de la Meurte", the Day of the Dead. It takes place every year on Halloween, when souls of the dead are said to return for a few hours to the world of the living. They are able to communicate with their living relatives if only for a short time.

I believe the Deathly Hallows are the spirits of James and Lily. Harry will visit his parents' graves on Halloween, near Godric's Hollow. James and Lily will tell Harry what happened the night they died and they will tell Harry an important piece of information about Voldemort, which will lead to Voldemort's demise.


I'm sorry, and I am not in any way trying to be rude, but that sounds highly unlikely, and it would be just too easy for Harry.

Thinking about the ghosts gave me this idea. Remember that Nick said that a wizard (specifically a wizard not a muggle) had to do something to become a ghost, and that Sirius was too brave to do such a thing. The implication was that it was an evil, or at least unnatural, thing, because it kept the soul from crossing over. Perhaps what a wizard must bo before death to keep hiw soul from crossing over is to put his soul in an object. It is the entire soul placed in the object. The ghost is bound to stay within a certain range of the object. Now the object would be a horcrux if it received only a part of the soul, and the un'horcruxed' part of the soul could inhabit a regenerated body. But without an unbound soulpiece, the ghosts cannot inhabit a regenerated body.

Now the object that receives the wizard's soul so s/he can become a ghost would be hallowed by receiving a whole soul, and that hallowing would be sealed (made irreversible to the wizard) upon the wizard's death - hence it is a 'deathly hallow.' Perhaps Nick will learn of Harry's quest and be able to offer help from himself and other ghosts who would like their souls released from their deathly happows so they can go on to where they ought to be. This help could be knowledge of how to safely release soulpieces, how to locate them, where Voldie's are (they may be just as obvious to a ghost as an enormous zit on someone's face is to us), or a number of other things.

This is an excellent point ... but I think that NHN told Harry that he was just too frightened to actually cross over. He didn't have the COURAGE to actually do it. Which is odd ... since he's the Gryffindor Ghost ... and well .. ya'll know the rest


Which brings me to how I think Regulus got the locket. Sirius said that Regulus was killed because he tried to back out of being a Death Eater after he got in to deep, but Sirius didn't really know Regulus and had just heard this. Regulus got into the inner circle of Voldemort. Voldemort trusted Lucius with his Diary, and from what I have heard, Voldemort trusted Regulus alot, probably more than Lucius. Voldemort would probably trust Regulus with something more...something bigger, something like the locket.

Voldemort gave Regulus the locket. Regulus had already known he gotten in to deep in inner circle of Voldemort. Maybe he saw something he didn't like, or something else unknown, but he didnt try to back out. What if he had a plan of action? What if he got to where Voldemort trusted him enough to give him the locket to place in the cave, which would explain how he knew about the cave. So, Voldemort trusted Regulus so much, he gave him the locket to put in the cave, Regulus took the locket, but put the fake locket in the bowl and kept the real one to destroy. Then, eithier Regulus went into hiding or he was killed by Voldemort for trying to back out. I don't think Voldemort would kill him for the locket, because then the fake locket wouldn't be there.

So all in all, Voldemort gave Regulus the locket out of trust, Regulus betrayed him, put a fake locket in its place, and went into hiding.

Any Comments?

This is interesting ... In the Goblet of Fire ... when LV is making his speech to the DE's doesn't he say something about how one of his Loyal minions is "gone forever" could that be Regulus? And if SOOOO and if The Deathly Hallows refers to the Veil ... wouldn't it make sense that Harry would try to TALK to Reggie about how he destroyed the locket?

Originally Posted by Dedalus Diggle Thinking about the ghosts gave me this idea. Remember that Nick said that a wizard (specifically a wizard not a muggle) had to do something to become a ghost, and that Sirius was too brave to do such a thing. The implication was that it was an evil, or at least unnatural, thing, because it kept the soul from crossing over. Perhaps what a wizard must bo before death to keep hiw soul from crossing over is to put his soul in an object. It is the entire soul placed in the object. The ghost is bound to stay within a certain range of the object. Now the object would be a horcrux if it received only a part of the soul, and the un'horcruxed' part of the soul could inhabit a regenerated body. But without an unbound soulpiece, the ghosts cannot inhabit a regenerated body.

Now the object that receives the wizard's soul so s/he can become a ghost would be hallowed by receiving a whole soul, and that hallowing would be sealed (made irreversible to the wizard) upon the wizard's death - hence it is a 'deathly hallow.' Perhaps Nick will learn of Harry's quest and be able to offer help from himself and other ghosts who would like their souls released from their deathly happows so they can go on to where they ought to be. This help could be knowledge of how to safely release soulpieces, how to locate them, where Voldie's are (they may be just as obvious to a ghost as an enormous zit on someone's face is to us), or a number of other things.
Nice idea--- but-- in order to create a Horcrux you have to split your soul and in order to do that you would have to commit murder--- (see book 6 pgs. 494-499 specifically pg. 497 the paragraph that begins *"Well, you split your soul, you see." and then continuing on to page 498 through at least the top few paragraphs) that may or may not explain some of the ghosts at Hogwarts, but surely it does not explain Moaning Myrtle. She became a ghost because she wanted to haunt Olive Hornby because Olive had teased Myrtle about her glasses.

*Quoted information taken from page 497 of Harry Potter ande the Half-blood Prince by J.K. Rowling

I still prefer the idea that DH refers to graves in a Graveyard.

Fine. since I'm assuming that the title refers to something obscure--how about this? It refers not to Harry's search for Horcruxes, but for Death Eaters (Deathly), and the places they are hiding, places with religious connotations (Hallows). Or, is this too close to Dan Brown?

It strikes me that this title is of only two words. As far as "liking it", I suppose that'll wait until after the book. After all, "Goblet of Fire" was a snazzy title, but "TriWizard Tournament" would have been more appropriate.

Originally Posted by Dedalus Diggle
Nice idea--- but-- in order to create a Horcrux you have to split your soul and in order to do that you would have to commit murder--- (see book 6 pgs. 494-499 specifically pg. 497 the paragraph that begins *"Well, you split your soul, you see." and then continuing on to page 498 through at least the top few paragraphs) that may or may not explain some of the ghosts at Hogwarts, but surely it does not explain Moaning Myrtle. She became a ghost because she wanted to haunt Olive Hornby because Olive had teased Myrtle about her glasses.

*Quoted information taken from page 497 of Harry Potter ande the Half-blood Prince by J.K. Rowling

I still prefer the idea that DH refers to graves in a Graveyard.
That's my point - the difference between a ghost's device and a horcrux is that the entire soul is placed by the wizard into the 'deathly hallow' that allows him to become a ghost. It does not require a murder but a morbid faear of 'going beyond', so the wizard removes his soul and places it in an immortal receptacle, 'somehow' continuing to operate his body until it dies, and then wandering in the general vicinity of his soul-anchor. It is awful and unnatural, but not nearly as foul as murdering someone to split the soul and then rending/removing part of the soul to place in the object. I had trouble thinking of Myrtle doing this, but as I think on it, she seems a very morose 'Goth' type of girl who might brood on death so much as to do this. Hey, I know this is a flyer, but so is every other speculation as to what 'deathly hallows' refers to.

Just a thought:
MAybe Harry meets voldemort in his old neighborhood, and they face off once and for all...muahahaha haha

Fine. since I'm assuming that the title refers to something obscure--how about this? It refers not to Harry's search for Horcruxes, but for Death Eaters (Deathly), and the places they are hiding, places with religious connotations (Hallows).

Say.... :tu: I like your theory.... it would make sense for DH to be refering to just that.
I still like my grave-yard theory, but only because I just feel that there has to be somewhere that the founders are buried-- also because of J.K. indication of a graveyard being of importance later (granted that could be refering to the scene in GoF), but--- you never know. I like both... I wish we had a release date for the new book.:drool:

Actually, "Goblet of Fire" was a great title. The main thing that happened in that book was not the Tournament but Voldemort's return--and it was the Portkeyed Goblet that made that happen by sending Harry to the graveyard (and letting us watch). It seems to me that V's plan was to kill Harry and snarl at his DEs but not let anyone else know he was back in the body. The Porkeyed Goblet kept that from happening since Harry was able to use it to return to Hogwarts with Cedric's body.

I'm seeing all of this talk about Harry taking Draught of Living Death, and someone said we don't know what it is. We do in fact know what it is.

Page 138 (US) "For your information, Potter, asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death."

So I don't think he would be taking it to go behind the Veil because he would be asleep, and in no way dead, but very much alive. However, I do wonder if you have a pulse when you take, and if there is a way to wake you up from it.

That's my point - the difference between a ghost's device and a horcrux is that the entire soul is placed by the wizard into the 'deathly hallow' that allows him to become a ghost. It does not require a murder but a morbid faear of 'going beyond', so the wizard removes his soul and places it in an immortal receptacle, 'somehow' continuing to operate his body until it dies, and then wandering in the general vicinity of his soul-anchor. It is awful and unnatural, but not nearly as foul as murdering someone to split the soul and then rending/removing part of the soul to place in the object. I had trouble thinking of Myrtle doing this, but as I think on it, she seems a very morose 'Goth' type of girl who might brood on death so much as to do this. Hey, I know this is a flyer, but so is every other speculation as to what 'deathly hallows' refers to.

I really like your theory Diggle but I am wondering what purpose they could have in book 7. The titles have been the basis for each book so far. So what purpose could these ghosts or their containers have?

Hello all, I've been reading all the theories presented here and thought I should sign up and chime in.

I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere in the hundreds of pages about this but, what happened to Sirius's body? He went through the veil and that is all we know, well as far as I know. He was not buried, his soul was not the only thing to go through the veil. My theory is maybe the place where he is is some sort of death like limbo. And due to the nature of the place, it would have to be sacred. I like the idea of the veil having 2 sides like the cabinet from HBP, so maybe Harry would have to go through to either find and retrieve Sirius or seek his help. This would keep to the general meanings of the words because I don't think Sirius is completly gone. Or Harry and LV would somehow both end up through the veil for a final showdown. And in my mind there would be spirits apleanty in this place so maybe his parents and Dumbledore could come to his aid.

Thoughts anyone?

I was under the impression that this body disappeared.

I really like your theory Diggle but I am wondering what purpose they could have in book 7. The titles have been the basis for each book so far. So what purpose could these ghosts or their containers have?
Could be several things, Celest. Perhaps ghosts only see souls and soulpieces, so that to them a horcrux is as apparent as a chair is to us. Or perhaps they know how to release soulpieces safely, since they know the encasement firsthand. And they seem to be sociable among themselves - that might form an enormously useful spy network.

Actually, "Goblet of Fire" was a great title. The main thing that happened in that book was not the Tournament but Voldemort's return--and it was the Portkeyed Goblet that made that happen by sending Harry to the graveyard (and letting us watch). It seems to me that V's plan was to kill Harry and snarl at his DEs but not let anyone else know he was back in the body. The Porkeyed Goblet kept that from happening since Harry was able to use it to return to Hogwarts with Cedric's body.

Wasn't it the Triwizard Cup that was the Portkey?

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival.

found it on a defenition website, thought it ws interesting about the thining of the veil

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival.

found it on a defenition website, thought it ws interesting about the thining of the veil
Yeah, the site has an entire thread for discussion of the Veil as it may relate to the Deathly Hallows.

Ionian, you're right. SO stupid! It was the Triwizard Cup. Apologies, all!

As far as ghosts are concerned, why would they put their souls anywhere? Nick says that "wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod" ("The Second War Begins," OotP). That sounds like the ghosts themselves are not souls. In that case, did the soul itself go on to whatever and the "consciousness" that was too afraid to go stay here?

And, by the way, why are there so many ghosts at Hogwarts? Myrtle and Binns died there, but I don't think Nick did since he was executed.

Ionian, you're right. SO stupid! It was the Triwizard Cup. Apologies, all!

As far as ghosts are concerned, why would they put their souls anywhere? Nick says that "wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod" ("The Second War Begins," OotP). That sounds like the ghosts themselves are not souls. In that case, did the soul itself go on to whatever and the "consciousness" that was too afraid to go stay here?

And, by the way, why are there so many ghosts at Hogwarts? Myrtle and Binns died there, but I don't think Nick did since he was executed.

I think you're right about the consciousness thing - I'm sure it isn't the soul that stays behind.

I think the ghosts at Hogwarts has parallels with the house-elves - an "open house" of sorts.

I think you're right about the consciousness thing - I'm sure it isn't the soul that stays behind.

I think the ghosts at Hogwarts has parallels with the house-elves - an "open house" of sorts.

I don't know about that ... I think that the SOULS of the Hogwarts ghosts are intact ... it's like a portrait ... I think the ghosts according to NHN ... are just scared to go anywhere ... but they don't learn anything more. They're sort of cowardly to cross over.

And the Ghosts really don't have any power to do anything. Poltergeists do ... according to JKR. I think those are different

Fine. since I'm assuming that the title refers to something obscure--how about this? It refers not to Harry's search for Horcruxes, but for Death Eaters (Deathly), and the places they are hiding, places with religious connotations (Hallows). Or, is this too close to Dan Brown?

It strikes me that this title is of only two words. As far as "liking it", I suppose that'll wait until after the book. After all, "Goblet of Fire" was a snazzy title, but "TriWizard Tournament" would have been more appropriate.Have any death eater in mind; like Snape perhaps. Deathly saint would make sense if it is about Snape as he did cause the death of Albus but perhaps he did it under the instructions from Albus who would not have Snape risk his own life to save him. Could it be the place Snape is probably going to be hiding out at.

Jo did say that HBP was the first part of a two parter book really so perhaps the title DH (the second part) has a similar meaning or connection to the title in the first part (HBP); Snape.

Jo did say that HBP was the first part of a two parter book really so perhaps the title DH (the second part) has a similar meaning or connection to the title in the first part (HBP); Snape.

Or, perhaps like Snape, someone's mother's maiden name was Hallows? :huh:

That one might be a bit out there...

Or, perhaps like Snape, someone's mother's maiden name was Hallows? :huh:

That one might be a bit out there...Possible but I am a little more partial to a place name, perhaps the place where Harry and Snape meet again or there is that two way mirror.

What about the two way mirror that Sirius might of taken with him through the veil (or someone else has it) and the little bit of mirror Harry kept. In interviews the two way mirror has come up a few times.Kelpie_8: Will the two way mirror Sirius gave Harry ever show up again?
JK Rowling replies -> Ooooo good question. There's your answer.JKR: I have no comment at all on that mirror. That mirror is not on the table. [Laughter from all; Jo's is maniacal.]

Perhaps the title Deathly Hallows refers to the two way mirror as there is needed more than one mirror for a two way mirror to work.

When I first heard this title, right away i thought of Godric's Hallow. Maybe there is a place in Godric's Hallow that is deadly? (i know that may sound kind of lame...) Maybe this 'place' is where something important happened/ will happen, such as the final battle between Harry and Lv.

Or maybe the 'Deathly Hallows' is describing a place where Lv hid one of his remaining horcruxes.

When i looked up the defenition of Hallows, this is what is gave me:
"To make or set apart as holy. "
Are the deathly Hallows perhaps referring to the remaining horcruxes? Will they possibly be harder to retrieve then the horcrux from the cave, and will will retreiving them perhaps take the life of someone in the process?
Hopefully this title wil prove to be somewhat more relavent to the plotline then the Half Blood Prince.

Yeah but too bad its Godricks HOLLOW, not Hallow, they are two different words!!

Possible but I am a little more partial to a place name, perhaps the place where Harry and Snape meet again or there is that two way mirror.

What about the two way mirror that Sirius might of taken with him through the veil (or someone else has it) and the little bit of mirror Harry kept. In interviews the two way mirror has come up a few times.

Perhaps the title Deathly Hallows refers to the two way mirror as there is needed more than one mirror for a two way mirror to work.

I'm not sure that deathly hallows refers to the mirror, but the quotes are very interesting. I think ur right that they might show up in book 7. although if they do, it would mean that sirius is still alive. since kreature was passed to harry, i would think that sirius must be dead, since thats a magical transaction that took place.

i believe the viel remains as the most likely canidate, although the point made earlier about the triwizard cup vs goblet of fire is valid.

my guess is the horcruxes are the deathly hallows. as deathy means of or relating to death not something that causes death...eg a deathly silence means it is as silent as if someone had died, the silence doesn't cause the death. I'm only clarifying this as i keep hearing/reading ppl say deathly means it causes death but in my understanding (which i admit could be wrong) that would be deadly not deathly.
as for the hallows..what could be more sacred or important than the artifacts of the founders..if thats what's been used to create the horcruxes than they are the hallows...i've always imagined that the horcruxes would have an aura of death since they are created with murder and rip apart ones soul. so the idea of describing them as deathly fits in well with how i've always imagined being around them would feel. but hey JK always keeps me guessing so i could be way off, though i do find it comforting that there seems to be much agreement with me..it'l be interesting to see what the translations are in other languages as they might clarify some things.

Ok, I have a theory about the title possibly referring to the veil. I actually chatted with this guy about it, and I of course having the far-out theories that I have, believe that Sirius might be coming back (hey it could happen right?) Anyway, Deathly meaning the Veil and Hallow meaning to respect greatly, or once again the Veil. We know the Veil was in the middle of a room surrounded in a stadium. Could this mean that the veil was wondered upon, or maybe worshiped by the Ministry workers who work in that department? If this is true, then its possible that Deathly Hallows means that Sirius (and possibly others) return from the Veil. After all, we can't just assume that Sirius is completely dead since he wasn't put under the Avada Kedavra Curse. He could simply just be trapped.

But I also still think that Deathly Hallows could mean the cemetery in which Dumbledore lies. Just from the original titles that were reserved three years ago Harry Potter and the Hogwarts Hallows, and the Hallows of Hogwarts I believe? Using the meaning of hallows using the "respect highly" definition. We know that Harry greatly respected Dumbledore, we see it over and over again. So maybe the final fight will take place in the cemetery.

I also believe that the title is giving us a hint as to when the book will be released. A Halloween release would be really cool, but that hasn't been to popular with my friends who seem to think that Jo wouldn't be so pathetic as to have a title giving a hint to the release date. Personally I hope that it is Halloween, it will push back the end of the series and make us want it even more.

i went to borders to reserve a copy of the book, and they had a HUGE poster up that said the date was 7/7/07

i think we all know why that date was chosen

The Deathly Hallows are Halloween and All Hallows.
Rowling said that the title occured to her in the shower has three more letters than the first one: a vowel and two consonants.
Three letters.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
Harry Potter and the Deathly All-Hallows.
The books ends at these days. I'm sure.
At this night the story will end. Harry will kill Voldemort or Voldemort will kill Harry.
And Rowling calls this last night "Deathly Hallows".

The Deathly Hallows could be the people or creatures that Harry and Luna heard behind the veil.

My guess: horcruxes. Something hallowed is something revered--and Tom Riddle revered particularly the objects that belong to the founders. Deathly--well, they all have been trapped so far (except the diary), so I suspect that there are traps around all of them...

When I looked up the definition of hallows, I found one that stated the beginning of the celtic winter, coincedentaly Rowling released the title on the 21 of December. An idea I have is that "Deathly Hallows" is not an object but a time, maybe the battle between Harry and Voldemort occurs at the beginning of winter, or perhaps someone important dies that that time.

When I looked up the definition of hallows, I found one that stated the beginning of the celtic winter, coincedentaly Rowling released the title on the 21 of December. An idea I have is that "Deathly Hallows" is not an object but a time, maybe the battle between Harry and Voldemort occurs at the beginning of winter, or perhaps someone important dies that that time.lol... But the Celts really only considered two major seasons, Winter and Summer. So Summer's End (and the beginning of Winter) is on Hallowe'en.{Summer's start and Winter's end coinciding with Walpurgis Night.} I think the emphasis on the number four (seasons, elements, etc...) came more from Greco-Roman thought than Celtic, though certainly there were borrowings. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that Winter begins on Dec. 21st for *our calender*, but not the old Celts. ^_^ But it's still a good thought. Perhaps a general winter theme (non-culture specific)... "Deathly Hallows" does have a cold feel to it, doesn't it? ^_^

Well it's something to do with Oct 31st

Hi
May I contribute to the debate concerning the meaning of the title of Ms Rowling’s next book. I don’t think that it has anything to do with either “Halloween” or “Hallowed ground” but rather it is to do with the Horcruxes or, more probably, the sacred objects concerning each of the four houses at Hogwarts. Let me quote from an excellent site relating to Arthurian Legend to be found at the Mystical World Wide Web at http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/arthuriana2z/h.htm

“Hallows
The Hallows across most legends are seen to represent the royal regalia carried by the King, or the objects sought by someone such as a 'Grail Quester' in both ancient and modern stories.
The sacred vessels, or 'Hallows of Ireland' were believed to have been brought by the 'Tuatha de Danaan' to Ireland and kept in the 'Crane Bag', visible at high tide only. Four people were responsible for guarding the contents, known as 'Guardians of the Hallows' : 'Manannan', 'Lugh', 'Cumhal', and 'Fionn'. When it was first in Manannan's care it contained:
Manannan's House;
Goibniu's shirt, belt, knife and smith's hook;
King of Lochlann's Helmet;
King of Alba's Shears;
A Belt made from fish skin;
Asal's pig's bones.

Later the Tuatha de Danaan were believed to be a people who were said to have brought sacred treasures from an island near Greece to Ireland from the Otherworld .There were said to be four treasures:

1. Shining spear of Lugh (from Gorias), providing victory in any fight;
2. Stone of Fal (from Falias), kings were crowned on this;
3. Sword of Nuadu (from Findias), impossible to avoid being struck and wounded by its contact;
4. Cauldron of Dagda (from Murias), of plenty. (See Dagda), (See Bran the Blessed).

The four hallows of the Tuatha de Danaan were developed in later traditions to be:

1. The Pole of Combat;
2. The Sword of Light;
3. The Cauldron of Cure;
4. The Stone of Destiny.

These have since been further developed to the four symbols of magical elements, to also be seen on Tarot packs as the four suits:

1. The Sword;
2. The Spear;
3. The Cup;
4. The Pentacle.

We can see that the sacred vessels influenced the Arthurian legends, Grail legends and the search for the hallowed objects in ancient 'Annwn' also being associated with those of the Tuatha de Danaan:

1. The Sword which is Broken;
2. The Spear of the Dolorous Blow;
3. The Dish (to process the Head of the Withdrawn Grail Guardian);
4. The Grail (Sacred Chalice / Cauldron of Plenty & Inspiration). “

As may be imagined the above article is far longer but I think points the finger at the hidden meaning behind the title and the recurring use of the number four.

I hope that this has been helpful.

Reg'ds
Bryan

I really can't get a handle on the word "Hallows"
To Hallow is to make holy.

Your reference to vessels of course makes me thing deathly vessels are horcruxes.

The Deathly Hallows are Halloween and All Hallows.
Rowling said that the title occured to her in the shower has three more letters than the first one: a vowel and two consonants.
Three letters.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
Harry Potter and the Deathly All-Hallows.
The books ends at these days. I'm sure.
At this night the story will end. Harry will kill Voldemort or Voldemort will kill Harry.
And Rowling calls this last night "Deathly Hallows".

Yes, I think that's good reasoning! I agree it will climax at Halloween and Harry will go back to school & get his 7th year, in epilogue. (Or the others will. Maybe Ron will be head boy).

I don't know if people have said this earlier, as i have no time to read all prior posts. As someone, forgive me for not quoting, said in V2, in the special features disk of one of the DVDs, JK Rowling talked about the cemetery on Hogwarts grounds and the later significance of it. I believe that this spot will be the location of the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort. As Voldemort and Harry regard Hogwarts as home, it is likely that even though Harry is leaving school, there will be many significant events there.

I think a horcrux may be found in the cementary, but I still think the final battle will take place somewhere new....maybe in front of muggles!:clap:

Tolkien already told his readers of hallows as holy places. In the "Return of the king" it´s written: "And why do men fight here in the Hallows when there is war enough before the Gate?"

You can see a sketch of the hallows (which means here "sanctified site" or simply sanctuary).

Follow the link and scroll down. http://www.tuckborough.net/minastirith.html

The only think I'm sure of is that I have no idea what the title really means. I do however have the feeling that instead of referring only to a single aspect of the book, that Deathly Hallows, like Half-Blood Prince, has more than one meaning.

1. Deathly Hallows= horocruxes / places they are hidden

I believe this is evidenced by the definition of hallows that people have posted relating to sacred objects, or as shrines. Voldemort would definitely see his horocruxes and their locations as sacred places and things and in that light the deathly aspect is obvious.

2. Spirits of the deceased

In the form of protriats or through a pensieve perhaps, aiding Harry in his horocrux hunt, with Dumbledore being the prime canidate.


I feel these two are the most likely. However it is also likely that we are all completely wrong and JKR will have something no one even thought of up her sleeve for this final book.

Rowling said that the title occured to her in the shower has three more letters than the first one: a vowel and two consonants.
Three letters.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
Harry Potter and the Deathly All-Hallows.

Where might I find the quote from rowling on that?

Tolkien already told his readers of hallows as holy places. In the "Return of the king" it´s written: "And why do men fight here in the Hallows when there is war enough before the Gate?"

Nice work! :tu::D

Rowling said that the title occured to her in the shower has three more letters than the first one: a vowel and two consonants.
Three letters.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
Harry Potter and the Deathly All-Hallows.

could you please provide a link to where we can all read this?

Didn't she say that at New York?

I know she said that she had another title or two, but I've never heard anything about vowels or other words that were in it. Unless I'm mistaken and she did say that too.

It's on her site, in the diary section... let me find a link...

ETA: Darn it. She's updated it since then. Why doesn't Mugglenet keep that in their archives of her website? I don't know. She said that she had three working titles to chose from and that one title was a nose ahead of the rest, well, a vowel and two consonants. I can't find the link for it now.

ETA2:Here's the news report Mugglenet made on that day:
Third title for Book 7
JK Rowling updated her site today with news that she now has a third title for Book 7. Jo also discusses her progress with the seventh book in the past week.

"I've now got a third title. I've been thinking back, and I know that I've had more titles than this for a couple of the previous books, so I'm not too worried by this. Title three currently ahead by a short nose, or perhaps that should be a vowel and two consonants.

I've just had a great writing week. There are few feelings more joyous than reading back over the week's work and thinking 'that's not bad at all', as opposed to the all-too-frequent, 'it's rubbish, I've wasted a week and I'll have to re-write the lot.' And if you think that's an exaggeration or false modesty, you are very, very wrong. It's perfectly possible to put in eight hour days and have nothing to show for them but a single idea that, if reworked completely, might be passable."

UPDATE: We missed this one earlier. The Extras section has also been updated with a page explaining spells, charms, hexes, jinxes, and curses.
Posted by Ciaran on Oct 31st | comments disabled | Submit News | Categories: JKRowling.com, JK Rowling, Book 7 And here's where it can be found if you don't trust my copy and paste skills. http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/archive/2006/10

Thanks for that! I completely missed the vowel and two consonants part :lol:

Why doesn't Mugglenet keep that in their archives of her website?CoSForums does...:D

J.K. Rowling's Official Website FAQs (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=90143) under the tag "Previous Diary Entries". ;)

When I first read the title of the 7th book I automatically assumed that Deathly Hallows is the place where harry will go and see the dead(Sirius, James, Lilly, and yes Dumbledore). But I think Harry will have to 'die' to be able to do that. But what i'm thinking is he might be able to take the Draught of Living Death to be able to survive the Hallows. Of course it's all probably a load of **** but hey:D

I really can't wait for the book to come out, I really don't know what to accept and I don't want to set myself up for something and then let myself down.

Hey everyone,

I found an interesting editorial by Lady Lupin. She has a lot of knowledge about HP and its inner meanings.

She has summarized everything we have to say about "Deathly hallows". You may want to have a look at that. It does not have anything new but I thought you may like it.

Here's the link: http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/spinnersend/se23.shtml

Regards,
Abhinav Gupta.

Thanks for the link abhinav gupta... the article is indeed quite good :agree:

My first though upon reading the title was something bad was going to happen on November 1. Halloween is the night before All Hallows Day (or All Saints Day, or All Souls Day), Nov. 1. After having read this and the other referenced threads, I see it is (possibly) a much deeper meaning! :)

I'm just a poor french girl and I've had the worst difficulties trying to understand what Hallows can possibly mean.
I read HP in English so all together I'm not that bad, but somehow I couldn't figure out this precise (upmost important) word.
So this post is really helping a lot: Tolkien already told his readers of hallows as holy places. In the "Return of the king" it´s written: "And why do men fight here in the Hallows when there is war enough before the Gate?"

So thanks siebensprung.

Is it old English?

It is weird to me that she should use a word with a sort of religious meaning. SO far, religion - any religion - was totally left outside of the HP books -for my greatest pleasure.
Of course, it can be a holy place only to Voldemort, in the legend that he made of his life, or even Harry's own legend. After all, and despite all the hard times he lived through in CoS, GOF and OOTP, he still is "The Boy Who Lived".

Another thing, there's a plurial. Could it be where the Horcruxes are?

My question really is: why mysticism, all of a sudden, in the last book? If it is really about mysticism...

I hope I am not wrong in posting this information in this thread because I think this thread is to speculate about HP and DH..

So here it goes...

I think we are going to find some more information about Beauxbatoms and Durmstrang .

Either Harry will visit these schools in search of Horcruxes (may be with the help of Hermione, Krum, Miss Maxime and Hagrid) or these schools themselves will get involved themselves because in these intense situations they can not remain unaffected. These schools will come to picture and their location will not be such a secret after all.

Other thing I BELIEVE in (thanks to Lady Lupin for giving me food for thought on this) is "Filch is going to die. After he dies, a secret is going to be revealed and this will prove to be exactly what Harry was looking for. Filch has some thing in his possession (confiscated material, over the ages, from students) about which he, Filch, himself has forgotten about but it is going to be proved as most important piece of puzzle." I am not sure about his dying part but I am sure about piece of puzzle.

Interested users can read Lady Lupin's editorials (they are mind blowing and I will not be surprised if they come out to be correct in book 7)

And Finally,

Sirius did not die, he just went past the veil. So does this means he will be a bridge to connect Harry with what lies behind the veil. People, my bet is on the veil. It has the key to book 7.

Regards,
Abhinav Gupta.

Aha, but Sirius was "hit in the chest by a green bolt of light" BEFORE he went through the veil, so -

Ahem. Wrong thread.

But is it not concievable that Filch might have confiscated one of the horcruxes? (since you mention him)?

Maybe the Hallows are the places where the horcruxes are kept?

Aha, but Sirius was "hit in the chest by a green bolt of light" BEFORE he went through the veil, so -

Only one couple were still battling, apparently unaware of the new arrival. Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: He was laughing at her. "Come on, you can do better than that!" he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room. The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest. The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock. American version, p. 805

So, it doesn't say what color the second jet of light was, or what spell the red jet of light was either. Most people assume that the second jet of light was the red jet of light. If it was the AK curse, wouldn't he just drop dead like cedric?

To be on topic, I think the Deathly Hallows are the horcurxes and/or all of the above of what all the threads on deathly hallow talk about.

Hi everyone! I need to do a Dobbie here. I just realized the prev DH thread I was contributing two wasn't on the same topic as I was. I really had my own thing going there. DH People and Places. Explains why folks were into the graveyard and such! Yikes! So I'm reposting the ideas I'm working with here, hoping to be more in step with everyone else. Hee, hee.

Deathly Hallows Speculations:

1. A consecration that puts the character in a place of death or a state of death (or deathlikeness). A consecration (setting apart) created by death of one sort or another. When something is consecrated it’s set apart from the norm, e.g., certain activities, foods/meals, or other non-regular rituals are performed.

2. A deathlike spirit or ghost, or a spirit or ghost that brings about death.

3. A ghastly blessing, consecration, or sanctification.

4. A commitment or devotion or dedication that is deathly, ghastly, or brings about death.

5. A predestination to die. (I’m thinking here in terms of the prophecy.)

6. A celebration or commemoration of death or a particular death.

7. To honor a death.

8. A hollow as in a clearing in the midst of a wooded area. Thus a deathly/deathlike hollow, a hollow in which death dominates (a graveyard perhaps), a clearing in which all appears dead.

TTFN

well i could just post all of my opinons and theories realted to book 7 here or if you want to know you could just go to my blog cuz i have a lot and i really don't wanna type it all agian. I hope you find themuseful and/or good.http://www.potteranalyst.blogspot.com

hey guys!! I tried to keep up with all the speculations because I don't want to repost something that was said already, but did anyone mention that Harry's wand is Holly -- from the word "Holy" -- hallows

and Voldemort's wand is Yew which is "death(ly)
?
?

Something came to mind this morning, so I'm jotting it down before I forget. DH could be some spell, process, thing or what have you that is specific to HP's world. For instance, TGoF was a goblet of fire but wasn't as the flame was magickal in nature, so we wouldn't have imagined it as it was before reading the book. THBP wasn't a prince in the sense of royalty as I was stuck on throughout the book, etc.

TTFN

Tolkien already told his readers of hallows as holy places. In the "Return of the king" it´s written: "And why do men fight here in the Hallows when there is war enough before the Gate?"

You can see a sketch of the hallows (which means here "sanctified site" or simply sanctuary).

Follow the link and scroll down. http://www.tuckborough.net/minastirith.html

That's really interesting. The Hallows are the burying place of the Stewards of Gondor in LotR.

I don't think Jo would have borrowed Tolkien's terminology, though. Didn't he invent a lot of words and use many others in very idiosyncratic ways? If the Hallows in Minas Tirith were such an invention, she'd hardly use the word in her own title, would she?

Jo also said that she read the Lord of the Rings only once, when she was 19. That doesn't sound like she's a big fan.

Question: Hello, I was wondering how much Tolkien inspired and influenced your writing?
J.K. Rowling responds: Hard to say. I didn't read The Hobbit until after the first Harry book was written, though I read Lord of the Rings when I was nineteen. I think, setting aside the obvious fact that we both use myth and legend, that the similarities are fairly superficial. Tolkien created a whole new mythology, which I would never claim to have done. On the other hand, I think I have better jokes.

I found an interesting parallel to the legends of the god Thor. His magical hammer, nammed Mjolnir, was used to "hallow" graves and to rid the world of monsters & giants, protecting the homes of gods and men. In an on-line guide to runes, which were carved on his hammer, I found this:

"There is another side to Thor's use of Mjollnir, though, and that is as a device of consecration and magical power. When Thor was on his way to Utgardar-Loki, he stopped at a farmhouse and made a meal for his hosts of the two goats, Tanngniost and Tanngristnir, who drew his chariot. In the morning, he gathered the bones and skins of the goats, raised his hammer and blessed the skins, whereupon the goats were restored to life. Also, as part of the funeral ceremony for the slain Baldr, Thor hallows the funeral pyre with Mjollnir. The implication of this, especially in relation to the runic inscriptions from memorial stones, is that Thor's protection continued beyond death."

What are the implications of restoring something to life? Would this pertain to the horcruxes, and restoring Voldemort's life? Or would there be some hallowing that would extend Dumbledore's protection beyond his own, or even someone else's death?

I found an interesting parallel to the legends of the god Thor. His magical hammer, nammed Mjolnir, was used to "hallow" graves and to rid the world of monsters & giants, protecting the homes of gods and men. In an on-line guide to runes, which were carved on his hammer, I found this:

"There is another side to Thor's use of Mjollnir, though, and that is as a device of consecration and magical power. When Thor was on his way to Utgardar-Loki, he stopped at a farmhouse and made a meal for his hosts of the two goats, Tanngniost and Tanngristnir, who drew his chariot. In the morning, he gathered the bones and skins of the goats, raised his hammer and blessed the skins, whereupon the goats were restored to life. Also, as part of the funeral ceremony for the slain Baldr, Thor hallows the funeral pyre with Mjollnir. The implication of this, especially in relation to the runic inscriptions from memorial stones, is that Thor's protection continued beyond death."

What are the implications of restoring something to life? Would this pertain to the horcruxes, and restoring Voldemort's life? Or would there be some hallowing that would extend Dumbledore's protection beyond his own, or even someone else's death?
That is really interesting stuff, especially considering the very shallow treatment of Norse mythology we usually get, at least in the USA. However, with Jo saying that one of the fundamental principles of HPworld is that 'dead is final', I don;t see how this would apply here.

their is this one Anime show on cartoon network...lol..I forgot what its called but its about these sort of Spiritual Warriors that well come from the Spiritworld and their job is too destroy these demonic creatures called Hallows...their dark beings that steal and feed off of human souls for power i guess....it kind of sounds similar to Deathly hallows.

Harry is the "Chose one" by voldemort but it is neville who will vanquish the Dark Lord !!!

Mark my words, my friends...

You might be right actually. :agree:

Well, I read already nearly all ideas about what Deathly Hallows could probably mean.

And now I wonder if a DEATHLY HALLOW is simply a magical item which indeed is the OPPOSITE of a HORCRUX?

Someone creates so called "eternal life" by murdering someone with a curse, while a Deathly Hallow will be created by dying because of the love for someone other instead.

I mean that it works like:

love - hatred
life - death
good - evil

and so on.

You know what I mean?

Deathly Hallow - Horcrux

Give me some response, please.

Well, I read already nearly all ideas about what Deathly Hallows could probably mean.

And now I wonder if a DEATHLY HALLOW is simply a magical item which indeed is the OPPOSITE of a HORCRUX?

Someone creates so called "eternal life" by murdering someone with a curse, while a Deathly Hallow will be created by dying because of the love for someone other instead.

I mean that it works like:

love - hatred
life - death
good - evil

and so on.

You know what I mean?

Deathly Hallow - Horcrux

Give me some response, please.I posted in the The Deathly Hallows - Theories Relating to People & Places thread that the Deathly Hallows could be those who help Harry destroy the final Horcrux. Here is the link to the page

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=99373&page=7

Eer, Dedalus Diggle - you doing ok here?

their is this one Anime show on cartoon network...lol..I forgot what its called but its about these sort of Spiritual Warriors that well come from the Spiritworld and their job is too destroy these demonic creatures called Hallows...their dark beings that steal and feed off of human souls for power i guess....it kind of sounds similar to Deathly hallows.

That's Bleach you're thinking of. HP in the Soul Society...ye gods, I thought I'd seen the worst of crossovers. :err:

As much as I love the general idea of Harry travelling to some sort of underworld, I think it is far too 'abstract' an idea for JKR to introduce at this point. It would be fun, travelling 'beyond the veil' and all, but I think the 'Hallows' themselves will be something slightly more mundane and physical.

@Dedalus Diggle - I think you have a point. Not only has JKR been insisting that death is the end (or, in DD's words, 'the next great adventure') but, with the possible exception of Nicholas Flamel's use of the Philosopher's Stone, most attempts we've seen at cheating death/longevity have been referred to negatively. I don't think we'll see anything that will contradict the attitude towards death in the series. No-one will be coming back to life.

Yeah.........But if Dumbledore said that Death is the next big adventure why did he help Nicholas Flamel make the Philosopher's Stone..so his friend could cheat death?...i dont know but i think theirs something Dumbledore is not telling Harry.


I think the Deathly Hallows could possibly be some legendary haunted place,Somewhere in the wizarding world....

Yeah.........But if Dumbledore said that Death is the next big adventure why did he help Nicholas Flamel make the Philosopher's Stone..so his friend could cheat death?...i dont know but i think theirs something Dumbledore is not telling Harry.
"his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel."

Dumbledore didn't help Flamel create/make the Philosopher's Stone. Flamel lived off of the Philosopher's Stone for several centuries before Dumbledore was born. Dumbledore did work with Flamel, who was a noted alchemist. Alchemy is not limited to the 'transmutation of base metal into gold'.

Alchemy: In the history of science, alchemy refers to both an early form of the investigation of nature and an early philosophical and spiritual discipline, both combining elements of chemistry, metallurgy, physics, medicine, astrology, semiotics, mysticism, spiritualism, and art. Today, alchemy refers to a basic three step process:


Analysis, [understanding the structure and properties of the thing that is about to be transmutated],
Deconstruction/Decomposion [breaking down the substance into its rudimentery properties],
Reconstruction/Recomposion [rebuilding it in a different form, or with different properties].


Deathly Hallows: hallowed halls, hallowed grounds, sanctuary.

I agree with LMD101 that any sort of supernatural journey would be outside of the relm of reality that JKR has created for this series. Other than the ghosts, who aren't spirits, but imprints, no one is seen communicating with the dead. Prof. Treleny doesn't even tackle it and it seems right up her alley.

Also, if Harry were to go to some sort of world of the dead, he would no doubt try to find his parents and, IIRC, we aren't supposed to be seeing them other than in memeories.

Don't post much, but I had a thought.....

In regards to the "final show down" V, has to think he has all cards, right? Horcruxes that nobody knows about. Paid a pretty high price for them as well, is looking less and less human.

Then Harry shows up, looking for a fight. Drops the bomb that not only does he know all about aforementioned horcruxes, they are all destroyed.

V flips, escapes. Has to. Has to make another horcrux. Cannot risk doing anything that would endager his mortality.

How many times can you rip your soul? 7 may be a powerful magic number, but 8 may be one too many.

The "power to vanquish" may mean the foritude to stick with the task of destroying horcruxes, for the love of friends and family, forcing V to try to make another horcrux, and that last ripping of the soul will the last straw. V does himself in seeking the very thing he thinks that will keep him alive forever.

Another mistake to mirror the mistake made in PS/SS, as another thread purports.

@Dedalus Diggle - I think you have a point. Not only has JKR been insisting that death is the end (or, in DD's words, 'the next great adventure') but, with the possible exception of Nicholas Flamel's use of the Philosopher's Stone, most attempts we've seen at cheating death/longevity have been referred to negatively. I don't think we'll see anything that will contradict the attitude towards death in the series. No-one will be coming back to life.I"m just catching on in this thread, I didn't read everything. I mostly agree on that last part of your post, the one I've quoted.
Only, are you talking about Sirius there, when you say "No-one will be coming back to life".
If yes, well, I know there are gazillions of threads out there talking about that, but I've always considered he wasn't dead, only trapped in another dimension or limbos. Let's not forget that the mirror he gave to Harry in OOTP hasn't been used yet in the plot. Why would JKR introduce such a thing, in an already very long book, if it wasn't to use it later?
Maybe those deathly hallows could refer to this "behind the veil" world Sirius is trapped in? Almost dead, but not quite...
No?

I"m just catching on in this thread, I didn't read everything. I mostly agree on that last part of your post, the one I've quoted.
Only, are you talking about Sirius there, when you say "No-one will be coming back to life".
If yes, well, I know there are gazillions of threads out there talking about that, but I've always considered he wasn't dead, only trapped in another dimension or limbos. Let's not forget that the mirror he gave to Harry in OOTP hasn't been used yet in the plot. Why would JKR introduce such a thing, in an already very long book, if it wasn't to use it later?
Maybe those deathly hallows could refer to this "behind the veil" world Sirius is trapped in? Almost dead, but not quite...
No?

I wasn't talking about Sirius specifically. I was just reiterating what Daedalus Diggle said, in response to another's post about Norse mythology, about death being final. There's no suggestion of necromancy or anything of the sort in HP-style magic (the closest we've got is the Inferi), and the bottom line has always been that the dead cannot return fully from where ever they've gone to. To put it crudely, for e.g. Sirius fell into the veil in one piece. I don't think he's going to, err, fall out the other side in the same state. If he's not entirely dead, I think if he 'moves on' anywhere, it will be into true death, so to speak. Having him come back alive into the living world would be the sort of contradiction I was referring to.

However, though I believe JKR won't renege on this fairly important stance (its been an issue from PS/SS onwards, afterall), I'm not dismissing the possibility of us seeing certain people as ghosts (if it happens, I'm thinking something along the lines of how the priori incantatem imprints defended Harry in GoF - for mere memories they were rather...dynamic).

Personally, I always thought the mirror was mentioned at the end of OoTP to emphasise another choice Harry could have made. The fact that this possession of Sirius' is the one thing that, had Harry thought to use it, *might* have saved his life, makes it all the more painful for Harry to think upon it. On the other hand, I can imagine Harry having enough of an attachment to the mirror to keep it (and it might be mentioned again, anyway), and if the 'Sirius stuck in limbo' thing is correct, the mirror could play a part in Harry contacting him. The nagging problem with Sirius's state is that we never get a clear-cut answer about what happened to him. Lupin and DD say he's 'gone' from the mortal plane, Nick tells Harry Sirius cannot become a ghost for reasons he's rather vague about.

I'm in two minds about the 'beyond the veil' thing. The very phrase has brought up images of an underworld for me ever since I read OoTP - and I do find the idea appealing, but a little incongruous in context. This is because I think it goes a bit too far outside the remit for HP as it stands. We have ghosts, and as of HBP we have Inferi. Both of which are clearly un-natural/unearthly manifestations in the 'real world', but the events of the series, whether magical or not have consistently remained in a concrete, very physical world. One could easily take these hints of the supernatural side of the magical world as a suggestion that we are indeed going to travel to a 'world of the dead', but I'm unconvinced. To my mind, the atmosphere doesn't seem quite right.

Clearly JKR was holding something back about the veil. Will information about this go hand-in-hand with a revelation about the 'undiscovered country'? Really, I don't know. :hmm:

And I think I've tied my brain in knots thinking about it tonight, but I hope some of the above theorising makes sense. :)

I have three theories on "Deathly Hallows".
1. I looked up both "hallows" and "deathly" in the dictionary, and this is my theory: Somebody is/will be "hallowed" in the books, in my opinion, Voldy. This act of hallowing will turn out to cause their death, hence the "deathly".
2. Someone being hallowed by the dead. Deathly means, according to websters dictionary, of or relating to death. That's what gives me this particular theory.
3. The dead being hallowed.

Also, I think the title will reflect something completely new in the books. In all of the other books we had no idea what the heck the title could mean. We had never heard of the CoS, or Azkaban, or anything.

"something Dumbledore is hiding from Harry"
hm..
Well.. when Dumbledore died, he burst into flames.
Does that remind you of a Phoenix at all?
and Fawkes is always at hand for him.. so..possibly?

Tell me what you think.

I'm afraid I don't follow. Are you suggesting that Dumbledore will be resurrected like a phoenix?

If so, I think its unlikely, pretty much for the same reasons that I put in my previous post. Well, that and the fact that JKR has stated repeatedly that Dumbledore is dead. The very fact that people are still arguing the point shows how much of an emotional impact the death had upon the fandom - to have DD suddenly rise from the dead (and "do a Gandalf") would cheapen that. I don't think JKR would go for such a gimmick.

Even so, it's a nice image you've brought up.

Hey, thanks for the answer!
And wow! What an answer!!
I'm afraid I won't be that good, but I'll try nevertheless.
And to begin with the end, your theorising does make sense! ;)

I wasn't talking about Sirius specifically. I was just reiterating what Daedalus Diggle said, in response to another's post about Norse mythology, about death being final. There's no suggestion of necromancy or anything of the sort in HP-style magic (the closest we've got is the Inferi), and the bottom line has always been that the dead cannot return fully from where ever they've gone to. To put it crudely, for e.g. Sirius fell into the veil in one piece. I don't think he's going to, err, fall out the other side in the same state. If he's not entirely dead, I think if he 'moves on' anywhere, it will be into true death, so to speak. Having him come back alive into the living world would be the sort of contradiction I was referring to.

However, though I believe JKR won't renege on this fairly important stance (its been an issue from PS/SS onwards, afterall), I'm not dismissing the possibility of us seeing certain people as ghosts (if it happens, I'm thinking something along the lines of how the priori incantatem imprints defended Harry in GoF - for mere memories they were rather...dynamic).
I agree with you, and it would be hard not to, given all the clues we can find in the books: I don't see anybody coming back from the dead. Dumbledore told Harry many many times that such a thing wasn't possible. And even if Dumbledore unfortunately showed us he was not infallible, I do think he's right on that one. Besides, It's something that JKR herself pointed out. It has something deeply unnatural, to try and bring back a dead person to the living, to a human life. Somehow to many people and in many different cultures it appears as the ultimate taboo, the ultimate ban.
I'm thinking of Golems, and zombies, and how frightening they are, not because of how they look or what they could do to us, not in the basic consideration of a horror movie, but when you start to think of their very nature.
I just don't see JKR going beyond that.

Yet, she's found many many ways to make dead people come back, not to life, but to a state, sometimes fleeting, that would allow them to communicate with the livings. You mentioned the ghosts, and you mentioned the priori incatatem apparitions. I guess we could mention the mirror in PS/SS too... And all the pictures of his parents Harry is given. The fact that pictures can move in JKR's universe is not only a magical/funny trick to me, it's there for a reason. That Harry, the orphan, might be able to look at a picture of his parents and that his parents could be able to wave back at him isn't totally innocent.
Inferi, I think are a different matter. I've mentioned zombies and I've seen enough zombie movies (:lol: ) to know that a zombie is nothing like the human being it used to be... I don't consider them as people returning to a simili-life. They are yet other kind of creatures.
But if they prove something, it's that JKR imagination is far from limited. She could totally come up with a new idea, a new magic, a new "breed", a new dimension, a new world... that would turn upside down every thing we think we know.

I'm in two minds about the 'beyond the veil' thing. The very phrase has brought up images of an underworld for me ever since I read OoTP - and I do find the idea appealing, but a little incongruous in context. This is because I think it goes a bit too far outside the remit for HP as it stands. We have ghosts, and as of HBP we have Inferi. Both of which are clearly un-natural/unearthly manifestations in the 'real world', but the events of the series, whether magical or not have consistently remained in a concrete, very physical world. One could easily take these hints of the supernatural side of the magical world as a suggestion that we are indeed going to travel to a 'world of the dead', but I'm unconvinced. To my mind, the atmosphere doesn't seem quite right. Ok, once more, I agree, with slight nuances.
Funny how people, reading the same thing, can picture it differently. :). The "beyond the veil" thing, to me, was always more into space rather then an underworld. As if Sirius and the other people trapped in there were floating in thin air and clouds…!
To take your expression, the atmosphere didn't seem quite right to me either when the inferi were introduced in the story. But to me it enhances the feeling that everything is still possible, that we shouldn't expect to remain in any kind of world at all.

Personally, I always thought the mirror was mentioned at the end of OoTP to emphasise another choice Harry could have made. The fact that this possession of Sirius' is the one thing that, had Harry thought to use it, *might* have saved his life, makes it all the more painful for Harry to think upon it. On the other hand, I can imagine Harry having enough of an attachment to the mirror to keep it (and it might be mentioned again, anyway), and if the 'Sirius stuck in limbo' thing is correct, the mirror could play a part in Harry contacting him. The nagging problem with Sirius's state is that we never get a clear-cut answer about what happened to him. Lupin and DD say he's 'gone' from the mortal plane, Nick tells Harry Sirius cannot become a ghost for reasons he's rather vague about.
[…]
Clearly JKR was holding something back about the veil. Will information about this go hand-in-hand with a revelation about the 'undiscovered country'? Really, I don't know. :hmm:


As for Sirius (now I know there are threads specifically dedicated to that topic, but it relates to the Deathly Hallows matter as well), to me it was always very simple. Even before I started to try and theorise on his state and situation, or even try to put it into words, I didn't think he was dead. To me he's trapped somewhere in limbo, un-dead, physically intact, just like you pointed it out, and the mirror always had the sole purpose to allow Harry to bring him back from this other dimension. It doesn't come across as a contradiction with what we've agreed on about JKR's universe, because to me, Sirius is simply into yet another kind of prison. Why, oh why would they hear voices coming from behind that veil?
JKR stated that the mirror would play a part in the last book. She also, stated, unfortunately, that Dumbledore is dead (which I never doubt, and I if can use here such a silly pompous word, I felt it instinctively reading the book, because it also comes as a natural conclusion: the old ones dying, leaving their place to the youngest one, etc... some sort of circle of life, I guess).
But she always refused to say anything about Sirius. Which is, to me, the ultimate proof he isn't dead.
Now I'm not saying he'll come back as a full human being. Even though somewhere inside of me I think he will. He might remain trapped in that veil/dimension for ever, only able to communicate with Harry through the mirror (not very handy for the Christmas dinners to come, but well...) but he will be back.

That might be those deathly hallows we're all trying to dissect!

Ok, was all this blabler remotely understandable?

I'm afraid I don't follow. Are you suggesting that Dumbledore will be resurrected like a phoenix?

If so, I think its unlikely, pretty much for the same reasons that I put in my previous post. Well, that and the fact that JKR has stated repeatedly that Dumbledore is dead. The very fact that people are still arguing the point shows how much of an emotional impact the death had upon the fandom - to have DD suddenly rise from the dead (and "do a Gandalf") would cheapen that. I don't think JKR would go for such a gimmick.

Even so, it's a nice image you've brought up.

Ok, blablabla, once more I agree with you!!!:tu:

Hey, I'll have to get back to you later on your points ( which ARE more than 'blabbering' to be sure :)). Just to let you know I'm paying attention. I have to get to college, else my lecturer shall AK me.

Thanks! That's very nice of you . Have a nice day.
And watch out for that lecturer of yours, sounds like a Snape to me!!!

maybe its a place in the book where Harry goes to learn about his heritage, and how to find the horcluxs.

I was reading HP:SS/PS today and a thought ocurred to me. What if HP:DH is written on the order of a massive review for the mother of all wombats? I mean what if it encompasses all info and rules and such we've been given in the previous books and combines them in new ways and old and then there's the great kahuna wombat at the end? What if the last book functions like Tom Riddles diary (after a fashion) and we get sucked in and can't get out until we pass the wombat? Perhaps we oughta rethink enthusiasm for the next book? ;)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

Ready for a nap, I am.

TTFN :))

*claps hands* Right, let's get down to business. I liked your points, Mad_Ravenclaw...here's my meandering response, as promised:


Somehow to many people and in many different cultures it appears as the ultimate taboo, the ultimate ban.
I'm thinking of Golems, and zombies, and how frightening they are, not because of how they look or what they could do to us, not in the basic consideration of a horror movie, but when you start to think of their very nature.
I just don't see JKR going beyond that.


And also, it is curious how many disturbing and memorable ideas and images JKR has managed to create without resorting to the supernatural in that sense. Going by the amount of detail JKR likes to add to major concepts – which the ‘risen dead’ would doubtless be – if it was coming in Book 7, we’d have seen foreshadowing already. Maybe it has been there and I’ve missed it, but I think we’re in agreement that no-one’s coming back from the dead.


I've mentioned zombies and I've seen enough zombie movies (:lol: ) to know that a zombie is nothing like the human being it used to be... I don't consider them as people returning to a simili-life. They are yet other kind of creatures.
But if they prove something, it's that JKR imagination is far from limited. She could totally come up with a new idea, a new magic, a new "breed", a new dimension, a new world... that would turn upside down every thing we think we know.


(Fighting urge to add stuff from a different canon here – I’m in the middle of a dead/soul/simili-life (like the term, btw) discussion on a totally different forum.)

Maybe the fact that JKR has given so many ways of portraying ‘half-life’ is to show that they are no substitute for the real thing, and that no-one can truly undo or circumvent the laws of nature – some universal regulation which factors in a separate dimension (limbo, as with Sirius, see below) which affects the physical world without ‘us’ being aware of it.

The subject of memory is an important thing, and in a way, your point reminded me of the recent editorial comparing Tom Riddle’s actions to the portrait in The Picture of Dorian Grey.

From what you suggest, the wizarding world almost attempts to reconstruct the dead and what never was (like LV’s pureblood heritage stained by Riddle’s more sordid origins) through memory, magic, and sheer desire (not the dead as such, but representations). To try to resurrect/create their source beyond the surface of a penseive or the – questionable, now that you mention it – canvas of a portrait, is definitely leading into ‘taboo’ territory. And yet, how can a portrait react to new information, how does it possess consciousness? How does a pensieve reveal not what is remembered but what ‘was there’?

The connections seem quaint enough upon first glance – but “Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible”. DD says this of the Mirror of Erised, but I think it is equally apt for the attitude towards desire and ambition in the books, and a standard for what is and is not achievable in nature, even through the power of magic (up to and inc. immortality). If we have the effect of parallel dimensions to consider, then it is a fine balancing act it is not easy to break, but one which any imbalance takes something v. subversive and powerful, i.e. Horcruxes. We're clearly missing some vital explanation from current canon, possibly one which is made all the more vital because it is & will remain a mystery.

Considering that, we might come up with something like this: the series is based upon the consequences of one man’s search for the power of immortality and the ‘natural order’ must be re-asserted, presumably through the actions of the likes of Dumbledore and, at the last, Harry himself.


Ok, once more, I agree, with slight nuances.
Funny how people, reading the same thing, can picture it differently. :). The "beyond the veil" thing, to me, was always more into space rather then an underworld. As if Sirius and the other people trapped in there were floating in thin air and clouds…!
To take your expression, the atmosphere didn't seem quite right to me either when the inferi were introduced in the story. But to me it enhances the feeling that everything is still possible, that we shouldn't expect to remain in any kind of world at all.


I was taking ‘beyond the veil’ as a blatant euphemism for death. But as this is JKR, I should know not to be so blasé. The idea of a limbo also works though, and nicely with the ethereal qualities of the veil – just think of all the voices that Luna & Harry heard ‘just beyond’ it. With the inferi thing, JKR has broken with the established ‘feel’ of the books before. The brains in OoTP, for e.g, just came out of the blue: second-rate horror film, much? My point being that despite my reservations, I still wouldn't put it past her to throw us a real shocker of a revelation in Book 7.

‘Everything is still possible’. And that’s the bind the HP-verse is in (and the rest of us, mind you, just without the reality of magic). We don’t know the limits of the possible until we push the boundaries – choose what is easy over what is right, split one’s soul, confirm a prophecy, leave a cupboard-under-the-stairs etc. In terms of Book 7 – JKR built her world on very real universal questions, and her conclusion will remain within them. She’s not playing God here, and nor is Harry. Which, for me, is part of the beauty of the thing.


As for Sirius (now I know there are threads specifically dedicated to that topic, but it relates to the Deathly Hallows matter as well), to me it was always very simple. Even before I started to try and theorise on his state and situation, or even try to put it into words, I didn't think he was dead. To me he's trapped somewhere in limbo, un-dead, physically intact, just like you pointed it out, and the mirror always had the sole purpose to allow Harry to bring him back from this other dimension.


I’m with you about the ‘limbo’ thing. I want to agree with you about the mirror. I’m not convinced it’s powerful enough on its own to breach the boundary between the mortal plain and the….not-quite-dead one. However, if we consider that no-one can come back from the Veil or death, yet accept there is a partially accessible dimension of ‘limbo’ (where Sirius is un-dead), then it would make sense for Harry to need some sort of conduit between the two. Maybe that is what the mirror is for.


Now I'm not saying he'll come back as a full human being. Even though somewhere inside of me I think he will. He might remain trapped in that veil/dimension for ever, only able to communicate with Harry through the mirror (not very handy for the Christmas dinners to come, but well...) but he will be back.

That might be those deathly hallows we're all trying to dissect!


Hmm, you’re beginning to sell me on this. Having seen resurrected!Sirius done badly in many a fanon theory and fanfic, I was originally sceptical on the idea. Now, reading this I see that it would plausibly tie up a fine number of loose ends. Nice theory-work there.
P.S. - I also thought 'instinctively' Dumbledore was dead.

Ah yes, Jo has done it again...."Deathly Hallows" is about as confusing as Dean Koontz's "Book of Clouded Sorrows"!

I remember JK saying that she was considering titles and that one was ahead by 2 consonants and a vowel. Can't remember where but definitely read it. My theory is that the previous title was HP and the Deathly Hall, therefore it is definitely a reference to a place. Whether this has anything to do with the veil i'm not sure, it would seem to hint at it though. I think if the veil is involved it will be the scene of the final battle and the dead will help Harry - i think this was foreshadowed by the effects of Priori Incantum in GoF

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I don't want to read all of this thread right now. Is it possible that the Deathly Hallows is refering to the places where characters in the book have died? (eg Godric's Hollow, the graveyard where Cedric died etc) I believe someone said previously in this thread that JKR mentioned that the characters who died had to, which might support this theory. Or perhaps even the places where LV committed the murders which he used to create the horecruxes.

I bet someone said this already xD

I remember JK saying that she was considering titles and that one was ahead by 2 consonants and a vowel. Can't remember where but definitely read it. My theory is that the previous title was HP and the Deathly Hall, therefore it is definitely a reference to a place. Whether this has anything to do with the veil i'm not sure, it would seem to hint at it though. I think if the veil is involved it will be the scene of the final battle and the dead will help Harry - i think this was foreshadowed by the effects of Priori Incantum in GoF
That's a good thinking. I think I read that too, on her website, but I'm not sure about it.
You give a pretty good justification to believe it refers to a place.

Like I said before, I don't believe that people who fall behind the veil die, so I don't believe the title directly refers to the veil, eventhough I think we'll be hreading about it.

Somehow I just can't be convinced it refers to a place. To me it's more a state of life, so to speak.

Curious Fact:

The title was released December 21 (winter solstice). There's a part in Book 5 or 6 where it says "...and at the solstice will come the new, and none will come after..." could this possibly be related to the release date?

Hey, think of this Godrics Hollow, Godric Gryffindor. Godric's Hollow might have something to do with his Horcrux item and think of his last name, Gryffindor. It may sound wicked but it sounds Griffin-door.

Gryffindor- Griffin-door
Slythering- Slith-ring
Ravenclaw- Raven's-claw
Hufflepuff- Dunno


Hmm... interesting, it makes sense, maybe the door to the Headmaster's office is the Horcrux and the table that Professor Mcgonagall has in her office (has Raven claws on it for feet ;)) is one as well...

Could Deathly Hallows be not some people, objects or places, but a type of spell or incantation? Maybe a kind of magical chant that would summon up help in some form from deceased wizards (the Hogwarts founders for example)? I dunno, I think the Lord's Prayer (Hallowed be thy name) just put the idea in my head.

Could go anywhere with that title. Typicall Jo though. gotta love her...

I haven't read this whole thread yet so I apologise if I'm repeating someone else's theory.

I think Hallows has a lot do with magical energies that travel along the ley lines of, in this case, Britain. Now these energies travel along the ley lines all the time but during certain periods these lines shift very slightly that can reveal certain things or allow persons to channel into a power. Maybe the shift in alignments allow others to discover secrets or hidden places, sacred places perhaps? A key to knowing where the lines are strongest is probably through old and ancient places, such as Hogwarts or perhaps the Ministry of Magic or even a new place to be revealed.

In this instance what we could be seeing in the title is that the Deathly Hallows is a ritual, so named because of the specific nature of the power used, a kind of holy or spiritual summoning. It doesn't have to be a steroid-induced Avada Kedavra. I personally like the idea that it is a focus of energies of more than one person, perhaps a group of people who are able to channel a very potent magic for a brief period. Let's say All Hallows Eve, during a particular astrological alignment there is a force, an energy that is at its strongest. That's my thoughts anyway.

Is it here where we can discuss the significance of Rowling ending the ceries in that hotel signing the statue?

ok im STILL confused on how to pronounce "hallows"
i always assumed it was pronounced "hollows" but with a differnt meaning because "hAlloween" is pronounced "hollow-een"
but ive had some people tell me its pronounced like "shallows" without the s
however on the mugglecast episodes they kinda prounce it both ways
which way is it?

Like 'shallows'

'holloween' is a technical mispronunciation that seems driven more by accent than the origin of the word.

i just hope that she puts in that Ron and Hermione tell each other that they love each other.

I keep coming back to the fact that 'hallow' is usually used as a verb, you know - "Hallowed be Thy name" and so on.

Used as a noun, Hallows is a place.

And as a 'Harry Lives' proponent, I am heartened that Jo used "Deathly", not "Deadly". The distinction makes all the difference!

Used in combination, the title implies that Harry will prevail through the assistance of the dead, which we saw foreshadowed in both his initial contact with Voldemort (His mom saves him by her death) and the graveyard duel in GoF (note that Voldemort was unable to defeat the souls of the people he had killed).

hmmm... maybe it has something to do with the seven deadly sins and the seven heavenly virtues? I dunno. "Deathly" made me think of "deadly", and "hallow" is to set something as holy/reverence, so my mind just jumped to that... Once again, I'm just providing far out stuff i find here... :blush:

It would fit with the "7" clues and 7 being powerful. Oh well. Just an idea. I doubt that Jo would introduce it in the books, but I with all the connections all over the place I decided to give my idea a shot...

I'm glad you did. I can't help seeing this connection also. If the deathly hallows are the deadly horcruxes. Vold has a seven part soul, and some of the pieces are kept in relics of the founders. But no matter what it was, if it had a piece of Volds soul, then it would be a sacred object to Vold, and therefor deadly to anyone else. I realize there is a difference between deadly and deathly. The only context in which I might use the word deathly over deadly is to say someone was deathly ill. But then that could almost describe what happened to DD and Ginny with the effects of the horcruxes, except it was not illness that would of killed them, it was magic.

When I think about Vold and the horcruxes, I can't help but wonder if the different horcruxes represent a different sin, and if there might be a clue as to to how the horcrux might be overcome, or what the unknown horcrux might be. And Harry would have to have the opposite virtues to defeat them. JKR does stress that Vold is complete evil.

Like you said, just an idea, but one I can't seem to shake.:shrug:

Deathly: 1. adj fatal 2. of, relating to, or suggestive of death
Hallows 1. To make holy or set apart for holy use 2. To respect greatly

I used two different dictionaries for these definitions, and both only described <hallow> as a verb, and did not have the word <hallows> (with an S). However, I think that it would probably be a holy place/object, such as a grave-yard or church. The definition for <deathly> pretty much speaks for itself. I think that the words used together could mean a few things:

1. It could be a place where death has happened, or grave-yard. It could have something to do with Lily and James' graves.

2. It could be a fatal place, somewhere where there is much danger.

3. It could be an object "suggestive of death," possibly a horcrux.

4. It could also be an object that could cause or aid death to happen. This could also be a horcrux, because they are VERY dangerous to remove/destroy/come into contact with.

In my opinion, it is probably either #3 or #4, because the seventh book is supposed to be all about destroying the horcruxes.


Also, just thought I'd point it out,:

There are seven letters in each of the words <Deathly> and <Hallows>...
There are seven horcruxes ( counting Voldemort himself)...
It is the title of the seventh HP book...
The book comes out in the seventh month of 2007...
There are seven Weasley children...
Seven is the most powerful magical number...
In their first and second years, the trio took seven classes...

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws, here, but you have to admit, there is a connection!

Also, the ones about there being seven horcruxes and seven letters in <Deathly> and <Hallows>? This kinda ties in with my theories about the Deathly Hallows being the horcruxes.

Interesting little tidbit from an interview with Daniel Radcliffe. He mentions a day when he chatted with Rowling on the set of OotP and what she said regarding a certain beloved headmaster . . . in Deathly Hallows. Good news for Michael Gambon.

'But honestly, he says, he has no idea of how the series will end. Nor does he want to. He's a Potter fan, like everyone else. 'Jo came down to the set at one point and I said, "Oh hello, why are you here today?" And she said, "Oh I just needed a break from the book - Dumbledore's giving me a lot of trouble." And I said, "But isn't he dead?" And she said, "Well, yeah, but it's more complex ..." I was like, [briskly] "OK, I'm not gonna ask anything else!"'

I go along with the Arthurian legend theory, and that the Hallows are the four founders items. I've read about this on a few sites and it all seems to fit.