Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows - General Speculation and Opinions v3

I go along with the Arthurian legend theory, and that the Hallows are the four founders items. I've read about this on a few sites and it all seems to fit.

Glad you're with me on this!

Hey guys,

I haven't read all the posts (just too many) so i don't know if someone has mentioned what i am about to say.

I stumbled upon this site where it says the etmology of words and check this out:

"hallow Look up hallow at Dictionary.com
O.E. halgian "to make holy, to honor as holy," related to halig "holy," from P.Gmc. *khailig (cf. O.S. helagon, M.Du. heligen, O.N. helga; see health). Used in Christian translations to render L. sanctificare." (the bold is mine)

The site is: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=h

Helga is in there! To me that's further proof that the founders will definitely come out and help Harry in some way. We've seen his parents helping him in the GoF. Maybe Helga Hufflepuff will play a more major role than we think?

Deathly Hallows?? Hmmm... Well, I think that hallows means holy or holiness. And deathly means, well, deathly. So we have "a holy death"? Sounds kinda weird.

I stumbled upon this site where it says the etmology of words and check this out:

"hallow Look up hallow at Dictionary.com
O.E. halgian "to make holy, to honor as holy," related to halig "holy," from P.Gmc. *khailig (cf. O.S. helagon, M.Du. heligen, O.N. helga; see health). Used in Christian translations to render L. sanctificare." (the bold is mine)

The site is: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=h

Helga is in there! To me that's further proof that the founders will definitely come out and help Harry in some way. We've seen his parents helping him in the GoF. Maybe Helga Hufflepuff will play a more major role than we think?
Thanks for that site. If you go to that etymology dictionary and type in Hallows you get a reference to Indian Summer...

"spell of warm weather after the first frost," first recorded 1778, Amer.Eng., perhaps so called because it was first noted in regions inhabited by Indians, or because the Indians first described it to the Europeans. No evidence connects it with the color of fall leaves or a season of Indian attacks on settlements. It is the Amer.Eng. version of British All-Hallows summer, Fr. été de la Saint-Martin (feast day Nov. 11), etc. Also colloquial was St. Luke's summer (or little summer), period of warm weather occurring about St. Luke's day (Oct. 18).
So maybe it refers to a period of time?

okay you guys i think are going way to deep. at the end of HBP harry said he was going to godric hallow cause he wanted to see his parents graves and cause thats where this all started.


deathly- his parents DIED there
Hallows- its called Godric HALLOW

okay you guys i think are going way to deep. at the end of HBP harry said he was going to godric hallow cause he wanted to see his parents graves and cause thats where this all started.


deathly- his parents DIED there
Hallows- its called Godric HALLOW
No, it is called Godric's HOllow. The words are no more related than past is to post.

if you want to get ideas as to what the title means then go to mugglenet...i remember reading on there when the Book 7's title was announced, it had the translations into other languages and when translated back to english they were slightly different...like one came back as Deathly Saints....so I mean that could possibly help.

No, it is called Godric's HOllow. The words are no more related than past is to post.

Well excuse me if everyone's not as fabulous a speller as YOU:grumble:

Could Petunia be the one that manages magic late in life even though it is rare? She can't be a squib that is a non-magical person in a magical family. The Evans family was not magical. Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

J.K.R.
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

Could Petunia be the one that manages magic late in life even though it is rare? She can't be a squib that is a non-magical person in a magical family. The Evans family was not magical. Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

J.K.R.-
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

Well excuse me if everyone's not as fabulous a speller as YOU:grumble:
The point is not that I am an excellent speller: it's that different spellings connote different words - well, usually, anyway. There are already lots of discussions about the various meanings that 'hallows' may have, and there are quite a few. But a 'hollow' is a small valley, and that is NOT one of the meanings of hallow. And I can assure you that I was far less sarcastic about that point than many of the others around here have been over this point. It seems we have to point this out almost as often as we have to explain that horcruxes don't get 'used up' when the wizard's body is destroyed or recreated.

For the last two months, we allI have been trying to find the exact meaning
and implications of the word "Deathly Hallows".As some of you might
have known Deathly and Deadly are totally different.Deathly = anything
suggesting death whereas Deadly = anything causing death.The
difference is subtle but important. Hallows is related to halloween as
my dear friend Patrick who is a theologist has explained 'to make
something so pure and sacred that no evil can harm it '.Christians use
holy water,other religions too have some means to hallow something.
I then re-read the books and at the end of Book 4,I felt a
brainwave on reading the following para :
His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice. . . . This
is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish to overlook
it... but no matter. I can touch him now."
All magic require a charm either verbal or nonverbal.This is what
I felt could "Deathly Hallows" be the name of the charm Lily Potter
used to protect her son.This might be similar to the Fidelius Charm or
the Unbreakable Vow.The stronger the willingness to sacrifice(love)
the more powerful the charm (analogous to the Patronus charm).

What do u all say?

For the last two months, we allI have been trying to find the exact meaning
and implications of the word "Deathly Hallows".As some of you might
have known Deathly and Deadly are totally different.Deathly = anything
suggesting death whereas Deadly = anything causing death.The
difference is subtle but important. Hallows is related to halloween as
my dear friend Patrick who is a theologist has explained 'to make
something so pure and sacred that no evil can harm it '.Christians use
holy water,other religions too have some means to hallow something.
I then re-read the books and at the end of Book 4,I felt a
brainwave on reading the following para :
His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice. . . . This
is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish to overlook
it... but no matter. I can touch him now."
All magic require a charm either verbal or nonverbal.This is what
I felt could "Deathly Hallows" be the name of the charm Lily Potter
used to protect her son.This might be similar to the Fidelius Charm or
the Unbreakable Vow.The stronger the willingness to sacrifice(love)
the more powerful the charm (analogous to the Patronus charm).

What do u all say?

Yes, I have always said that Harry's Mother's sarifice was of most importance.
Dumbledore also said even directly to Voldemort, that Voldemort has overlooked the power of love.
The "old magic" Harry's Mother used is the Rune magic. I believe Hermione will instruct Harry on how to use Rune magic against Voldemort.
The author kept emphasizing Hermione's taking the Ancient Runes classes.
Maybe Harry is still charmed, or a new charm could be performed on him to protect him.
Maybe Ginny can use the charm on Harry.
Don't forget about Hermione's Arithmancy classes!

they could be a group of elite DEs thts what i think

I keep going back to the titles of the books relating to things, places, and people. SS=Thing, COS=Place, POA=Person, GOF=Thing, OOTP=Place? (as in where there head quarters are), HBP=Person. I realize that OOTP is the one that is not really correct, but that aside... Deathly Hallows = all three? The Deathly Hallows could be a thing (Tombs where the founders are buried), a place (the Graveyard at Hogwarts where the Tombs are located), and people (The Founders of Hogwarts) all at the same time. This would be very cleaver of JKR and I wouldn't put it past her to do this.

Mercer
Elf of Old

I have an old dictionary and on Hallows it says "See also Devote."

Devote
to give up or appropriate to or concentrate on a particular pursuit, occupation, purpose, cause, etc.: to devote one's time to reading.
2. to appropriate by or as if by a vow; set apart or dedicate by a solemn or formal act; consecrate: She devoted her life to God.
3. to commit to evil or destruction; doom.

Sounds pretty appropriate to me.

So it could be Harry Potter and the Deathly Devotions.

I was listening to a song ealier today and it got me thinking. What if the deathly Hallows were like... the number of the beast. I.e. evil numbers, anyone branded with that number is evil (dark mark?)
If so that would seem more likley that the title is archaic for the whole series rather than a singular book. I'm not saying that Voldemort is going to write '666' on his forehead, but its a point worth considering.

Could be some relationship between numbers and membership in the Death Eaters; although I thought the Dark Mark was in the form of the skull we saw projected in the air in GOF, and I'm not quite sure what you mean about the title of the series. Can you deveop the idea further?

You might also be interested in this thread about the potential uses of Arithmancy and Ancient Runes in Book 7: http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97074.

Could Petunia be the one that manages magic late in life even though it is rare? She can't be a squib that is a non-magical person in a magical family. The Evans family was not magical. Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

J.K.R.
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

Could Petunia be the one that manages magic late in life even though it is rare? She can't be a squib that is a non-magical person in a magical family. The Evans family was not magical. Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

J.K.R.-
Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

it would be a nice idea, however, on jkrowling.com on the "rumours section" she confirms that petunia never has been able to do magic and never will perform magic



so anyways
im really hoping that this book will be amazing
becuase im trying to imagine a harry potter book without harry attending hogwarts, and the images that i get in my head just arent good
so hopefully it will exceed my expectations

it would be a nice idea, however, on jkrowling.com on the "rumours section" she confirms that petunia never has been able to do magic and never will perform magic



so anyways
im really hoping that this book will be amazing
becuase im trying to imagine a harry potter book without harry attending hogwarts, and the images that i get in my head just arent good
so hopefully it will exceed my expectations

My Money is on Filch, it will be too funny

I keep going back to the titles of the books relating to things, places, and people. SS=Thing, COS=Place, POA=Person, GOF=Thing, OOTP=Place? (as in where there head quarters are), HBP=Person. I realize that OOTP is the one that is not really correct, but that aside... Deathly Hallows = all three? The Deathly Hallows could be a thing (Tombs where the founders are buried), a place (the Graveyard at Hogwarts where the Tombs are located), and people (The Founders of Hogwarts) all at the same time. This would be very cleaver of JKR and I wouldn't put it past her to do this.


It is true that the titles revolve around the plotline rather
than the storyline but if you list down the past six titles(two
magical objects,two wizards,one concerning a magical beast,one
magical group) none of these links or tries to link a magical charm
to the title . JKR has mentioned that book 7 is going to be unique
so why can't she name it after a charm that has spawned the
storyline of the entire series.

P.S.- Deathly & Hallows both contain seven yes SEVEN letters.
("I mean, for instance, isn't seven the most powerfully magical
number, wouldn't seven — ?")

I came up with an idea last night as I was trying to fall asleep:

Voldemort and Harry have their final showdown in the Department of Mysteries, in the circular room with all the doors. Harry finally gets Voldemort at his mercy but can't bring himself to do the Avada Kedavra as he just sees a ruined man in front of him and feels pity for him rather than pure hatred. He thinks of all the people he's cared about and lost because of Voldemort but still can't kill him. Then he notices a bright white light coming from the gaps around the sides of the sealed door. Harry walks over to try and open it and open it does, releasing a blinding light (representing love) that makes Voldemort cringe and cower. Then Harry sees DEATHLY HALLOWS ie figures of the people who he loved and lost -- Dumbledore, SIrius, his parents, etc -- floating out of the room towards Voldemort. They surround Voldemort and destroy him before they disappear, leaving behind just a pile of dust and ashes lying in Voldemort's robes.

Lol, I know it's daft (and kind of a copy of the priori incantatem bit of Goblet of Fire) but I thought I'd share it anyway! But maybe, the deathly hallows could be subjective to the person who summons them up, the dead loved ones of that particular person.

To me, "Deathly Hallows" always sounded like a bad thing, but really "Hallows" relates to nice things (going by the definitions mentioned in previous posts) and "Deathly" sounds bad but could actually be alright when related to some situations, like those that are already dead.

I don't know if anyone's posted the below list...but here it is.

"Harry Potter und die todbringenden Heiligen" (German)
"Harry Potter et les saints mortuaires/mortels" (French, "Deathly/Mortal Saints")
"Harry Potter y los santos de la muerte" (Spanish, "Saints of Death")
"Harry Potter e l rito moratle" (Italian, "Deadly Ritual")
"Harry Potter e os Santos Mortuários" (Portuguese, "Deathly Saints")
"Harry Potter ve Olumcul Takdis" (Turkish, "Deadly Blessing")
"Hari Poter i Smrtonosni Blagoslovi" (Serbian)
"Harry Potter si Ingerii Mortii" (Romanian, "Angels of Death")
"Harry Potter i sveci smrtnici" (Croatian, "Mortal Saints")
"Harry Potter ja Surmapühakud" (Estonian, "Saints of Death")
"Harry Potter ve Ruchot Hamavet" (Hebrew, "Spirits of Death")

Ok, so these were posted on mugglenet.com a few weeks ago. They're not the official titles of the translations...but maybe it'll shed some light on what may be occuring in book 7.

On JKR's site, in the FAQ section, there is a question that asks "What does 'Deathly Hallows' mean?" And JKR answers, in a nut shell, that to explain the title would give away to much of the story.
I was curious what exactly does Hallows mean. In the dictionary if something is hallow it is:1)"to make or set apart as holy. 2)To respect or honor greatly;revere". My guess is that there is something about Voldermort being able to split his soul soo many times, that makes him almost holy in an evil way in the eyes of his death eaters.
Please don't take my using the word holy in any disrespectful way.

ok, so from the list above two of the titles when translated BACK into english turns out to be Harry Potter and the Saints of Death, one turns out to be Harry Potter and the Angels of Death....these "saints" or "angels" could be Lily, James, Dumbledore, and Sirius...4 of the most important people to Harry. His Parents, his Mentor and his Godfather. And JK did say that Dumbledore had been giving her trouble...

Ok, mods, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to put this in, so if it's not, please move it^^
Also, I did a search but couldn't really find anything really about this so...

Ok, so I was on the Harry Potter Lexicon, and saw something about wands. I went into further reading and saw this JKR quote [from her official site] I gave Harry a wand made of holly wood back in 1990, when I first drafted chapter six of ‘Philosopher’s Stone’. It was not an arbitrary decision: holly has certain connotations that were perfect for Harry, particularly when contrasted with the traditional associations of yew, from which Voldemort’s wand is made. European tradition has it that the holly tree (the name comes from ‘holy’) repels evil, while yew, which can achieve astonishing longevity (there are British yew trees over two thousand years old), can symbolise both death and resurrection; the sap is also poisonous.

So basically, I was thinking, could these be the Deathly Hallows? I mean. They are so opposite from each other. Death, Tom's realm, and repelling evil, Harry's division.

So, what do you think?

Thoughts, ideas?

And JK did say that Dumbledore had been giving her trouble...

I always thought about something in the Pensieve for that though...

well yea should could have been referring to the pensieve...but it seems this would be a way for him to be giving her trouble...

I think that since they both share a common phoenix feather (Fawkes's), and that its just their wands, it would be a very poor choice by her to bring it all down to wands. I think that the Deathly Hallows are more than just wands.

Also, you might want to put this in the Deathly Hallows thread.

I think that since they both share a common phoenix feather (Fawkes's), and that its just their wands, it would be a very poor choice by her to bring it all down to wands. I think that the Deathly Hallows are more than just wands.

Also, you might want to put this in the Deathly Hallows thread.

Good point. Despite the fact that harry's and tom's wands being brothers, DH has got to be more than just wands. Four horcrux are still on hunt. An unsolved mystery lies ahead.. Can't wait for Dh to be released..

okay heres a twist what if it Dudkey who gets magic later on in life. that would be wierd but you never know. He is aunt petunia's son who having a witch for a sister is probably carrying magical genes.

im probably going to be shot by everyone for posting this.

Dudley with magic...now that is a scary thought. I am afraid that would prove Dumbledores point that evil will always exist. I really hope that doesn't happen.

This book sounds like the best one yet. I doubt that Hogwarts will open in this book. I think Hogwarts is the Deathly Hallows. IMO this is where the final battle with Harry and LV will take place. It is both their homes and there is so much ancient and deep magic there. I think Hogwarts will help Harry in the defeat of LV.

Hey guys, that is an interesting point that I have also thought of...What if it is Dudley who performs magic? I mean what if his worst memory was that he accidently made his toes disappear or something? What if he has been hiding his magical ability from his parents his whole life? Didn't Dumbledore say that it is our choices that make us who we are and that is why Harry was sorted into Gryff.not Slyth? Mayble Dudley chose not to be magical?

What do you think?

What if he has been hiding his magical ability from his parents his whole life?

I don't think this would be possible. Students are put down in a book as soon as they are born for those who have magic and those who don't. If he were hiding his ability he would have received his letter the same month Harry did for they are the same age. Imagine, Dudley wouldn't have been able to tease that Harry got mail if he had been handed the same envelope inviting him to Hogwarts in September.

My first thought when I read the title was Godric's Hollow, and how Harry's parents were killed on Halloween. That's pretty obvious though. Also the Holy Grail, which is part of the Arthurian legend, and which reminds me of Horcruxes, as do the other relics in the story, like the sword.

I came up with an idea last night as I was trying to fall asleep:

Voldemort and Harry have their final showdown in the Department of Mysteries, in the circular room with all the doors. Harry finally gets Voldemort at his mercy but can't bring himself to do the Avada Kedavra as he just sees a ruined man in front of him and feels pity for him rather than pure hatred. He thinks of all the people he's cared about and lost because of Voldemort but still can't kill him. Then he notices a bright white light coming from the gaps around the sides of the sealed door. Harry walks over to try and open it and open it does, releasing a blinding light (representing love) that makes Voldemort cringe and cower. Then Harry sees DEATHLY HALLOWS ie figures of the people who he loved and lost -- Dumbledore, SIrius, his parents, etc -- floating out of the room towards Voldemort. They surround Voldemort and destroy him before they disappear, leaving behind just a pile of dust and ashes lying in Voldemort's robes.

Lol, I know it's daft (and kind of a copy of the priori incantatem bit of Goblet of Fire) but I thought I'd share it anyway! But maybe, the deathly hallows could be subjective to the person who summons them up, the dead loved ones of that particular person.

To me, "Deathly Hallows" always sounded like a bad thing, but really "Hallows" relates to nice things (going by the definitions mentioned in previous posts) and "Deathly" sounds bad but could actually be alright when related to some situations, like those that are already dead.

Now that would be awesome. Im still curious about all those doors in the ministery and the veil. After all Harry's greatest power Voldemort doesnt have is Love so your theory is possible with the door being opened and all.

I've not looked in on this thread for a while. Overall, in DH, I hope there are a lot of answers provided to questions generated in the prev 6 books.

TTFN

I hope Snape is finally blasted into little itty bitty pieces of mooshu in which I will jump out of my seat and proclaim my happiness for his inevitable death.

I know everyone says no, but rewatching the movies (and Dan's somewhat wooden acting) I'm starting to believe the theory that Harry is a Horcrux. Harry as a character is just so... reactionary, like an object.

Yikes. If this is a verboten sort of response, my apologies.

In Arthurian and other quest legend, and sometimes in the Tarot, "Hallows" refer to objects imbued with sacred qualities or symbolically "hallowed", and often corresponding to the elements (as in alchemy--in which Lily -- and Snape -- it is spec'd may have dabbled--and which has to do with precious metals and often the search for immortality) and directions and linked also to numbers, the zodiac, the suits of the Tarot and of playing cards etc--that are treasured and must be solemnly sought and gathered together by one person or "team" before and in order to to achieve a certain purpose--eg The Grail --and often both wordly and an otherwordly purpose--as in battle and magic.

This would fit with the objects of each house (which also correspond) and especially if there is a Horcrux or two associated with each house and its precious object, and/or with the elements not directly--but symbolically--linked to each house--each house being of course associated with qualities and therefore elements (air, fire, water, earth, sometimes spirit)
as well.

Of course it's also a slanted pun on "Hollow".

But I am certain this comes into it--so it's not just a Horcrux hunt (I would find an extended Horcrux quest mystery and adventure very boring) but a sacred mission to gather the "Hallows".

I think that the Deathly Hallows will be in some way related to Albus, Lily, James, and Sirius...

I came across an interesting passage today. I'm thinking this information will play a good part in DH:

"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them...and I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter."

"...the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."

The Prisoner of Azkaban, JK Rowling, Scholastic PB edition, September 1999, pg 427.

I suspect we'll realize this in the book. And, also, I wonder if this has anything to do with Snape's unreasonable/unbalanced hatred for the Marauders and in particular Harry's father. He owes him a magickal debt.

TTFN

im actually really afraid that the ending is going to be awful
i know there is that whole theme of love and how thats voldemorts downfall
but i cant hellp but imagine that what they are reaching for on the cover of DH is an enourmous heart that is going to give voldemort a big huge or something

People. This needs to be said. "Dumbledore is dead. J.K. even said so her self."[mugglenets.coms book] Also. I think that harry won't go to hogwarts. But he'll find the Horcrux's

People. This needs to be said. "Dumbledore is dead. J.K. even said so her self."[mugglenets.coms book] Also. I think that harry won't go to hogwarts. But he'll find the Horcrux'sIn another thread someone had said that Yes Dumbledore is dead, but which Dumbledore.

This lead me to believe that Dumbledore and his brother had switched places, so that a Dumbledore would always be available at Hogwarts whenever Albus needed to go hunting for the Horcruxes.

I still think that, but now I'm wondering. What if that whole fiasco on the Astronomy Tower was planned...semi-planned. Snape and Dumbledore knew everything was going to come to a head sometime, and perhaps Albus had actually passed away from ring Horcrux. If Aberforth had taken over for him, then they would be waiting for the right moment to 'end' Dumbledore's life. Dumbledore himself wouldn't have wanted Voldemort to know he was gone, but given the situation - being fatally ill, he made arrangements with Snape. That's why Dumbledore was blown off the tower, so Albus' body could be placed at the bottom. Then Aberforth could go back to being himself, Snape could go off to spy on Voldemort. It would explain why Dumbledore finally allowed Snape to take the DADA position. He knew Voldemort wouldn't let Snape leave, so he gave him the cursed position knowing that something would happen that year to terminate his job. Since they planned it rather than just letting it happen...it worked to their advantage.

I liked it better when I thought it was Aberforth that passed and Albus was still alive. Now I'm not sure what to think.

I just went into Wikipedia to see what they had to say about DH. If the information there is correct, then it's Aberforth who's alive. Perhaps he will be the one who reveals Dumbledores history. I mean, who else? And a nasty rumor concering LV and Hedwig too.. :no:

Wikipedia promises much, and after having checked it out, I can barely wait.

Either way, alive or dead, we'll get alot more information on Dumbledore so that's cool for me.

But I would like to see him make a Gandalf comeback even though I believe JK said he wouldn't. In that case, we'll probably just see him as a luminous being like Old Ben in Star Wars.

Ok I posted this in the Names and Places thread, but I hope it's ok to copy it here because this thread seems appropriate.

I found this text called The "History Of The Scottish Nation" by googling word "Gallow" and "Hallow" trying to find a connection between Hallows and a The Hanged Man motif. This source connects the word Gallow with Hallow - which I think is appropriate.

BUT....the source is rather archaic and religiously biased, so maybe questionable. However, I could see J.K.Rowling coming across this text in her research so tell what you guys think. It's By Rev. J. A. Wylie LL.D. and Published in 1886. (BTW: There is also a chapter (18) in this same History called "The Expedition of Severus" which describes a Vengeful Emperor Severus bent on avenging Rome against the Caldonian Mauraders.)

The author is talking about the etymology of the "Gallow Hills" that had the Druid circles and "Rocking Stones" that were used as places of judgment- often a place where the Druid Priests would Diviniate (by augury) and sometimes people were condemned to death.

Whether or not you buy the text in itself, The interesting fact about the "Rocking Stones" or "Tipping Stones" in history and gaelic Culture is the legend that came up about them. Because the rocks would vibrate under light pressure but could not be moved by a heavy force, a child (innocent) could move the stone where as a man or Army of Men could not (guilty- with sin.) They were considered to be a measure of sin in the person.

I found an online copy and will provide the link.

Quote:
From -History Of The Scottish Nation
Vol 1, Chapter 12 - Vitrified Forts; Rocking Stones; Druid's Circle; No Man's Land; Divination

"..... By the help of these archaeological lights we can still identify many of those "high places" to which the Druid went up, that there be might have the future unveiled to himself, and be able to unveil it to others. The "Laws" and "Gallow-hills" scattered here and there all over our country attest by the name they bear that here were the divining places of the priests of the Scottish Baal. The name comes from a Gaelic word, gea-lia, which signifies "The Sorcery Stone," 8 now corrupted into gallow. The Gaelic words gea (sorcery), and lia (a stone) enter into a variety of combinations, and appear in many altered forms, but wherever we light upon them as the names of places we there behold the Druidic brand still uneffaced, though affixed so long ago, and most surely indicating that we are treading on what was once holy ground, and in times remote witnessed the vigils of the astrologer and the incantations of the soothsayer. It must be noted as confirmatory of this etymological interpretation, that theses laws and gallow-hills have the common accompaniment of a neighbourhood abounding in Druidic remains—pillar-stone or remains of circles.

The popular belief regarding these laws and gallow-hills is that in other days they were places of judgment and of execution,—in short, that here stood the gallows. But this is to mistake the etymological meaning of the name. The term is not gallows-hill and gallows-gate, but gallow-hill and gallow-gate. It is the Celtic gea-lia, and not the English vernacular, gallows, which is but of yesterday, compared with the olden and venerable word which has been corrupted into a sound so like that it has been mistaken for it. The name was affixed to these places long before the gallows had come into use as an instrument of capital punishment, and sentence of death was carried out on the criminal by the stone weapon, or by the yet more dreadful agency of fire.

Link: History of a Scottish Nation Vol 1. Ch. 12 (http://www.electricscotland.com/history/wylie/vol1ch12.htm)


Now, consider this and the connection to "The Hanged Man" motif which has been popping up all over the place.

1) When J.K. Rowling announced the Title of Deathly Hallows, visitors of her website could play a game of Hanged Man to get the name.

2) We see a magical game of Hanged Man in the Weasley twins Magic shop.

3) The "Hand of Glory" that Draco uses in HBP - by folklore is always a a lamp that is made from a Hanged Murderer's hand. Draco used this the night Severus Snape stole his "Glory" and murdered Dumbledore.

4) We see a game of Hanged Man scribbled by Ron inside the cover of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them"

5) We see images of the Hanged Man anytime someone uses the Levicorpus Spell- in particular Snape in his Worst Memory. Snape himself simulates the Tarot's card for a Hanged Man (Hung upside down by his ankles.)

Considering that Snape invented the spell- He could easily be associated with the image of the Tarot's Hanged Man, could he not? Snape is upside down by a tree and he "brought it on himself..." as Sirius says.

So we're talking Judgement day,

I don't think it Necessarily the hellfire and brimstone Apocolypse kind but of the self-atonement variety.

When you interpret the Tarot's story of The Hanged Man you get a much different story that a guy going to the Gallows. You get the vision of a Fool who is enlightened and aware of his inner self having given up his earthly desires for ultimate truth.

So I believe the "Judgement" Harry is facing in his own. In order to defeat Voldemort Harry will have to KNOW THYSELF. As Snape was telling him more or less in his Occlumency lessons- Every weakness, emotion, and desire Harry has in his mind - is a "weapon" against himself until he learns to Close it.
"Mouth closed- Mind SHUT Potter!"

This all leads the series full circle back to the Mirror of Erised- "The happiest man on earth would look in that mirror and see only himself."

Now, consider this and the connection to "The Hanged Man" motif which has been popping up all over the place.

1) When J.K. Rowling announced the Title of Deathly Hallows, visitors of her website could play a game of Hanged Man to get the name.

2) We see a magical game of Hanged Man in the Weasley twins Magic shop.

3) The "Hand of Glory" that Draco uses in HBP - by folklore is always a a lamp that is made from a Hanged Murderer's hand. Draco used this the night Severus Snape stole his "Glory" and murdered Dumbledore.

4) We see a game of Hanged Man scribbled by Ron inside the cover of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them"

5) We see images of the Hanged Man anytime someone uses the Levicorpus Spell- in particular Snape in his Worst Memory. Snape himself simulates the Tarot's card for a Hanged Man (Hung upside down by his ankles.)

Considering that Snape invented the spell- He could easily be associated with the image of the Tarot's Hanged Man, could he not? Snape is upside down by a tree and he "brought it on himself..." as Sirius says.

So we're talking Judgement day,

I don't think it Necessarily the hellfire and brimstone Apocolypse kind but of the self-atonement variety.

When you interpret the Tarot's story of The Hanged Man you get a much different story that a guy going to the Gallows. You get the vision of a Fool who is enlightened and aware of his inner self having given up his earthly desires for ultimate truth.

So I believe the "Judgement" Harry is facing in his own. In order to defeat Voldemort Harry will have to KNOW THYSELF. As Snape was telling him more or less in his Occlumency lessons- Every weakness, emotion, and desire Harry has in his mind - is a "weapon" against himself until he learns to Close it.
[I]"Mouth closed- Mind SHUT Potter!"

This all leads the series full circle back to the Mirror of Erised- "The happiest man on earth would look in that mirror and see only himself."

This is great stuff Bscorp! Snape, as I believe he is truly good, fits the "Hanged Man" motif to a T. The Hanged Man in the Tarot is the Great Fool who voluntarily goes contrary to the world. Take everything that Severus Snape appears to be on the surface [I]and then turn it upside down[I] to discover the truth about him. The Hanged Man is a sacrificial figure, and his head is illumined. It is a card of consciously chosen suffering for the sake of Truth.

3) The "Hand of Glory" that Draco uses in HBP - by folklore is always a a lamp that is made from a Hanged Murderer's hand. Draco used this the night Severus Snape stole his "Glory" and murdered Dumbledore.

This "Hand Of Glory" as a hanged man's hand also applies if you subscribe to the theory that Irma Pince is Eileen Prince in hiding. Follow me along here...

When Snape took the Unbreakable vow it was
1.) At His Mother House in Spinner's End and
2.) A promise to A Mother by One son to act in place of Another.

Narcissa is risking her life by going around Voldemort's plan and straight to Snape. Snape is offering his own life to save her son's.

Now DD is dead. Snape is an outcast and a killer, but Draco is not. Draco's own Mother will have to go into hiding. Draco and Snape have switched places. Snape took on Draco's task, he took Draco's "Glory" which is to say he took his sin unto himself- and saved Draco's soul from being torn.

Ok I posted this in the Names and Places thread, but I hope it's ok to copy it here because this thread seems appropriate.

I found this text called The "History Of The Scottish Nation" by googling word "Gallow" and "Hallow" trying to find a connection between Hallows and a The Hanged Man motif. This source connects the word Gallow with Hallow - which I think is appropriate.

BUT....the source is rather archaic and religiously biased, so maybe questionable. However, I could see J.K.Rowling coming across this text in her research so tell what you guys think. It's By Rev. J. A. Wylie LL.D. and Published in 1886. (BTW: There is also a chapter (18) in this same History called "The Expedition of Severus" which describes a Vengeful Emperor Severus bent on avenging Rome against the Caldonian Mauraders.)

The author is talking about the etymology of the "Gallow Hills" that had the Druid circles and "Rocking Stones" that were used as places of judgment- often a place where the Druid Priests would Diviniate (by augury) and sometimes people were condemned to death.

Whether or not you buy the text in itself, The interesting fact about the "Rocking Stones" or "Tipping Stones" in history and gaelic Culture is the legend that came up about them. Because the rocks would vibrate under light pressure but could not be moved by a heavy force, a child (innocent) could move the stone where as a man or Army of Men could not (guilty- with sin.) They were considered to be a measure of sin in the person.

I found an online copy and will provide the link.

Quote:
From -History Of The Scottish Nation
Vol 1, Chapter 12 - Vitrified Forts; Rocking Stones; Druid's Circle; No Man's Land; Divination



Now, consider this and the connection to "The Hanged Man" motif which has been popping up all over the place.

1) When J.K. Rowling announced the Title of Deathly Hallows, visitors of her website could play a game of Hanged Man to get the name.

2) We see a magical game of Hanged Man in the Weasley twins Magic shop.

3) The "Hand of Glory" that Draco uses in HBP - by folklore is always a a lamp that is made from a Hanged Murderer's hand. Draco used this the night Severus Snape stole his "Glory" and murdered Dumbledore.

4) We see a game of Hanged Man scribbled by Ron inside the cover of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them"

5) We see images of the Hanged Man anytime someone uses the Levicorpus Spell- in particular Snape in his Worst Memory. Snape himself simulates the Tarot's card for a Hanged Man (Hung upside down by his ankles.)

Considering that Snape invented the spell- He could easily be associated with the image of the Tarot's Hanged Man, could he not? Snape is upside down by a tree and he "brought it on himself..." as Sirius says.

So we're talking Judgement day,

I don't think it Necessarily the hellfire and brimstone Apocolypse kind but of the self-atonement variety.

When you interpret the Tarot's story of The Hanged Man you get a much different story that a guy going to the Gallows. You get the vision of a Fool who is enlightened and aware of his inner self having given up his earthly desires for ultimate truth.

So I believe the "Judgement" Harry is facing in his own. In order to defeat Voldemort Harry will have to KNOW THYSELF. As Snape was telling him more or less in his Occlumency lessons- Every weakness, emotion, and desire Harry has in his mind - is a "weapon" against himself until he learns to Close it.
"Mouth closed- Mind SHUT Potter!"

This all leads the series full circle back to the Mirror of Erised- "The happiest man on earth would look in that mirror and see only himself."

For the first time since the title came out, I'm reading something that both has canonical evidence and makes sense. (You do not want to hear some of the stuff I've heard on other forums).

Ok I posted this in the Names and Places thread, but I hope it's ok to copy it here because this thread seems appropriate.

I found this text called The "History Of The Scottish Nation" by googling word "Gallow" and "Hallow" trying to find a connection between Hallows and a The Hanged Man motif. This source connects the word Gallow with Hallow - which I think is appropriate.

BUT....the source is rather archaic and religiously biased, so maybe questionable. However, I could see J.K.Rowling coming across this text in her research so tell what you guys think. It's By Rev. J. A. Wylie LL.D. and Published in 1886. (BTW: There is also a chapter (18) in this same History called "The Expedition of Severus" which describes a Vengeful Emperor Severus bent on avenging Rome against the Caldonian Mauraders.)

The author is talking about the etymology of the "Gallow Hills" that had the Druid circles and "Rocking Stones" that were used as places of judgment- often a place where the Druid Priests would Diviniate (by augury) and sometimes people were condemned to death.

Whether or not you buy the text in itself, The interesting fact about the "Rocking Stones" or "Tipping Stones" in history and gaelic Culture is the legend that came up about them. Because the rocks would vibrate under light pressure but could not be moved by a heavy force, a child (innocent) could move the stone where as a man or Army of Men could not (guilty- with sin.) They were considered to be a measure of sin in the person.

I found an online copy and will provide the link.

Quote:
From -History Of The Scottish Nation
Vol 1, Chapter 12 - Vitrified Forts; Rocking Stones; Druid's Circle; No Man's Land; Divination



Now, consider this and the connection to "The Hanged Man" motif which has been popping up all over the place.

1) When J.K. Rowling announced the Title of Deathly Hallows, visitors of her website could play a game of Hanged Man to get the name.

2) We see a magical game of Hanged Man in the Weasley twins Magic shop.

3) The "Hand of Glory" that Draco uses in HBP - by folklore is always a a lamp that is made from a Hanged Murderer's hand. Draco used this the night Severus Snape stole his "Glory" and murdered Dumbledore.

4) We see a game of Hanged Man scribbled by Ron inside the cover of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them"

5) We see images of the Hanged Man anytime someone uses the Levicorpus Spell- in particular Snape in his Worst Memory. Snape himself simulates the Tarot's card for a Hanged Man (Hung upside down by his ankles.)

Considering that Snape invented the spell- He could easily be associated with the image of the Tarot's Hanged Man, could he not? Snape is upside down by a tree and he "brought it on himself..." as Sirius says.

So we're talking Judgement day,

I don't think it Necessarily the hellfire and brimstone Apocolypse kind but of the self-atonement variety.

When you interpret the Tarot's story of The Hanged Man you get a much different story that a guy going to the Gallows. You get the vision of a Fool who is enlightened and aware of his inner self having given up his earthly desires for ultimate truth.

So I believe the "Judgement" Harry is facing in his own. In order to defeat Voldemort Harry will have to KNOW THYSELF. As Snape was telling him more or less in his Occlumency lessons- Every weakness, emotion, and desire Harry has in his mind - is a "weapon" against himself until he learns to Close it.
"Mouth closed- Mind SHUT Potter!"

This all leads the series full circle back to the Mirror of Erised- "The happiest man on earth would look in that mirror and see only himself."

Also, Wasn't the Pub in the town that the Riddle's house was just ouside of called the "the Hanged man"? or some such name?

Thanks. I think I will start a new thread on the Tarot reading of these ideas...:err:

I had thought from the beginning that Hallows meant the founders, given that hallows means saints (as opposed to hallowed which means holy). However, when rereading an editorial yesterday, a new thought occurred to me-- the "Lost Day" is... All Hallows Day! Could the title have some reference to that? If the backfiring spell occurred after midnight, then Voldemort would have "died" on All Hallows Day, and assuming Hagrid got Harry that same night (hard to believe a baby would be left all day crying in the rubble), then all those muggles would have died that day as well.

Also (somewhat related), re: the NAQ on JKRowling.com, where she apparently found the question of why Dumbledore had the invisibility cloak important enough to give it its own section-- that day would have been the most likely time for it to have come into his possession. If my recollection is correct, she has refused to comment on whether anyone else was there at the time of the deaths, and I believe the question has come up about how what exactly happened there was known; I believe that someone else (my guess would be Snape) was there, who later returned the cloak to Dumbledore.

Anyway, just a thought.

I believe that someone else (my guess would be Snape) was there, who later returned the cloak to Dumbledore.

I would disagree. DD specifically said "your father left this in my posession". Whatever happened I feel sure that James, himself, left his cloak with DD. The question is why and how.

Going along with the hanged man theme. Mandrake, or mandragora, was believed to grow on the ground beneath hanged man and fed by his [blood]. Interestingly the hand of glory and the word mandragora are linked-the french term for the hand of glory is main de glorie.

I have 3 major theories. The first is a kinda wild theory, but I really think there is something to it:



I believe the house-elves have played/will play a specific role in wizarding history/future. I think I have found something that may indicate that house-elf enslavement is tied to the dark arts, and Harrys' defeat of Voldemort.



CoS CH 10 PG 177-178 Dobby says to Harry in the Hospital Wing.

"Ah, if Harry Potter only knew!" Dobby groaned, more tears dripping onto his ragged pillowcase. "If he knew what he means to us, to the lowly, the enslaved, we dregs of the magical world! Dobby remembers how it was when He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was at the hieght of his powers, sir! Ofcourse, Dobby is still treated like that, sir!" he admitted, drying his face on the pillowcase. "But mostly, sir, life has improved for my kind since you triumphed over He-Who-Must-Be-Named. Harry Potter shone like a beacon of hope for those of us who thought the dark days would never end, sir..."

PS/SS CH2 PG 16 Dobby tells Harry he is "too important" when trying to convice him to go home, to protect him.


These quotes made me wonder several things:

1. Why did the fall of Voldemort have such a signifigant effect on house-elves?

2. If Dobby is still treated like vermin, by the Malfoys, who are connected to Voldemort, and who still practice the Dark Arts, which found them (house-elves) particularly mistreated, is their plight connected to the dark arts?

3. Does it have something to do with their enslavement?

4. Why would Harry be a beacon of hope for their plight even after Voldemort 1st fell?

5. Why would he be "too important" to Dobby? Why would a Death Eaters' House-Elf care what happened to Harry, and love Dumbledore if he didn't have a personal rerason to?

6. Why are the house-elves the only magical creatures enslaved? Centaurs and goblins are considered "inferior" to wizards, and are still free. House-elves can do magic, powerful magic, yet they are enslaved. Did they cause this in past history?


Theory:

I think that the house-elves enslavement is connected somehow to the Dark Arts. Maybe they are connccted to something bad that happened. Maybe they did something bad.

Let me take you back, two years ago...


OotP Ch 35 Pg 785

"...at the Solstice will come a new..." said the figure of an old, bearded man.

"DO NOT ATTACK! WE NEED THE PROPHECY!"

'He dared-he dares-" shrieked Bellatrix incoherently. "He stands there- filthy half-blood-"

"WAIT UNTIL WE'VE GOT THE PROPHECY!" bawled Malfoy.

"...and non will come after..." said the figure of a young woman.


I have wondered why JKR put these broken prophecies in the mix. I thought at first it was just atmospheric, but now I wonder if they will be important. The were near the prophecy concerning Harry. Perhaps the prochecies are not catagorized my the date the prophecy was made, but by subject.

I think these prophecies condern the end of the dark arts.

GoF CH 31 PG 610 states that the third task is on June 24th. Well, June 24th is right after the Summer Solstice (21st). The 3rd task is the night when Voldemort was reborn, made "new".

I think the prophecy(ies) predicts that a Dark Lord will be made a new, be destroted, and none will come after.

Why, do I connect these, you ask? It was something Dobby said to Harry at #4 Privet Drive. If "beacon" often refers to light, then perhaps, "dark days" refers to the "dark" arts.

I think Harry is SOOOO important to the house-elves beacuse he will bring the end of The Dark Lord, and by so doing, bring about the end of the dark arts, and house-elf enslavement.


PS/SS CH 2 PG 17

Dobby says to Harry at #4 Privet Drive.

"Albus Dumbledore is the greatest headmaster Hogwarts has ever had."

Dobby says this to Harry before he began working for HW. How would Dobby know this if there wasn't a reason for him to believe it? Did he hear this from his fellow house-elves?


How is this connected to Dumbledore? Vaguely, but importantly.

If enslavment is their past, and Dumbledore was their present, then Voldemorts' end is their future.

They were, I believe, devoted to Dumbledore. I think Dumbledores' death will be the catalyst for ACTION! If they can cause harm to defend Harry, why can't they cause harm to defend themselves? Or for revenge? They can disobey what they should be doing, Dobby has proven it.

The Fountain of Magical Bretheren was made for a reason. It symbolizes something. I think it will prove not to be "a lie" as Hermione thinks. (Even if it is now). I think all of the magical world will be involved.

On a side note: In PS/SS Dobby tells Harry if given clothes, he "will be free to leave forever". If he is free to leave forever, is he free to return? Can he sneak back into the house?

The Houseelves are magical creatures. Why are they not allowed wands? Why is there a restriction on them? What did they do?

If they really are just servants, wouldn't they be better able to serve their masters, be more effecient.... if they had they ability to do more?

Could this wand restriction have something to do with whatever made them slaves?

Also, somehow I don't think JKR would have slaves in the books if there wasn't a reason. Why not just Elf Servants? Why would she choose the word slaves?.


Here is theory number Two.

H.B.P. Chapter 35, page 798 " ...and what looked like ribbons of moving images flew from it, unraveling like rolls of film-"

This quote refers to what Harry saw from the brain that flew at Ron in the Department of Mysteries (DOM), before the "tentacles of thought" attatched themselves to Ron.


My personal theory is that a brain will belong to someone who can lead Harry to a Horcrux.

The WHO:
My money is that the pickled ball of slime once belonged to R.A.B., or in my opinion, Regulas Black. Perhaps the MOM kept his brain because he was a Death Eater.

The WHY IT'S IMPORTANT:
If R.A.B. is Regulas, and he had the locket, he might have more horcruxes, know their whereabouts or a clue to finding one.


Theory number Three


In the Philosphers/Sorcerers' Stone, Chapter 1, Page 14, Dumbledore tells Professor McGonagall "I would trust Hagrid with my life." This is a powerful statement for a characters' introduction. So I have wondered for a long time if J.K. Rowling was forshadowing something.

I think Hagrid will be a source of aid for Harry in DH. I also think DD has given Hagrid some source of info, or a soure of aid, whether Hagrid knows he knows something or not.

I would disagree. DD specifically said "your father left this in my posession". Whatever happened I feel sure that James, himself, left his cloak with DD. The question is why and how.

Going along with the hanged man theme. Mandrake, or mandragora, was believed to grow on the ground beneath hanged man and fed by his [blood]. Interestingly the hand of glory and the word mandragora are linked-the french term for the hand of glory is main de glorie.

Thanks for this information!

I was just reading COS today and Mandrake is of course a running subject in that book. All year the staff has to wait for the Mandrakes to come to maturity so the Mandrake Potion can cure those students paralyzed by the Basilisk. There is simply no quick answer they have to wait on "Mother Nature." It's funny but dark humor- as these plants have babies attached to them instead of roots. The babies have to mature through adolescents, show signs of moodiness and sceretiveness, then throw a wild party before they reach final maturity which is signaled the day they move into another Mandrakes pot! But then of course they're slaughtered so they can be used in the Mandrake potion for the others. In effect the Mandrakes are sacrificed are they not?

So can we put together a basic theory from all this "hanged man" symbolism?
Guilt and judgment as it applies to everyone not just the "bad guys." Is this kind of a play on The "Original" sin - just Nature's cycle?

A speculation about DH I have is how time will go in the book. Will Jo merely see it to the end of the war, or to the middle, or what? Will she go further into the character's lives? Would that be better, or worse?
Any thoughts?

Just joined, and hope not to be instantly banned for spoiling,
but
I think Deathly Hallows will have a recurring character
turn out to have been possessed by Voldemort.
Consider..
In Order of the Pheonix, Harry is worried about Voldemort
reaching into his mind, and possibly controlling him.

Ginny Weasley points out that:
She has been controlled by Voldemort,
and
Is Harry missing large chunks of his memory..

{Something to that effect...don't recall the exact words.}

So, who could be Voldemort's pawn?
Someone who could turn into a deadly threat to Voldemort
if not controlled,
Someone missing large chunks of their memories..

Clues point to none other than....

Neville Longbottom.


Neightran

==================
Voldemort tries to destroy Harry.
After this failure
Voldemort puts his effort into
the subversion of Neville Longbottom

Thanks for this information!

I was just reading COS today and Mandrake is of course a running subject in that book. All year the staff has to wait for the Mandrakes to come to maturity so the Mandrake Potion can cure those students paralyzed by the Basilisk. There is simply no quick answer they have to wait on "Mother Nature." It's funny but dark humor- as these plants have babies attached to them instead of roots. The babies have to mature through adolescents, show signs of moodiness and sceretiveness, then throw a wild party before they reach final maturity which is signaled the day they move into another Mandrakes pot! But then of course they're slaughtered so they can be used in the Mandrake potion for the others. In effect the Mandrakes are sacrificed are they not?

So can we put together a basic theory from all this "hanged man" symbolism?
Guilt and judgment as it applies to everyone not just the "bad guys." Is this kind of a play on The "Original" sin - just Nature's cycle?


Maybe it's just me but why would JKR put this much effort into symbolism? I can understand her effort to underscore the symbolism behind love, but the specific references to the hanged man make me think that there is something about gallows specifically that she wants us to think of...

Speaking of the "wild party" before mandrakes are repotted, I wonder if there is any connection to the Death Day Party held by Sir Nicholas. It is the only other reference to a party in the series. (unless you want to count the Yule Ball)

Just joined, and hope not to be instantly banned for spoiling,
but
I think Deathly Hallows will have a recurring character
turn out to have been possessed by Voldemort.
Consider..
In Order of the Pheonix, Harry is worried about Voldemort
reaching into his mind, and possibly controlling him.

Ginny Weasley points out that:
She has been controlled by Voldemort,
and
Is Harry missing large chunks of his memory..

{Something to that effect...don't recall the exact words.}

So, who could be Voldemort's pawn?
Someone who could turn into a deadly threat to Voldemort
if not controlled,
Someone missing large chunks of their memories..

Clues point to none other than....

Neville Longbottom.


Neightran

==================
Voldemort tries to destroy Harry.
After this failure
Voldemort puts his effort into
the subversion of Neville Longbottom

Man i was close... but i would have said carrot top....

Please Neightran explain a little bit more, thanks.

ok
I've read a few more posts and have a better grasp of what is spoiling.
An opinion based on existing material is on topic, not spoiling.

Second, I should have posted this in the "Who might be a traitor?"
thread.

Anyhow..
Chamber of Secrets had Ginny Weasley turned into a pawn
of Voldemort through means of his diary.

In Order of the Pheonix page 499 + 500:

"I didn't want anyone to talk to me," said Harry, who was feeling
more and more nettled.

"Well that was a bit stupid of you," said Ginny angrily, "Seeing as
you don't know anyone but me who's been possessed by You-Know
Who, and I can tell you how it feels."

Harry remained quite still as the impact of these words hit him.
Then he wheeled around.

"I forgot," he said.
"Lucky you," said Ginny coolly.
"I'm sorry," said Harry, and he meant it. "So...so do you think I'm being
possessed, then?"

"Well, can you remember everything you've been doing?" Ginny asked.
"Are there big blank periods when you don't know what you've been
up to?"

Harry racked his brains.
"No," he said.
"Then You-Know-Who hasn't ever posessed you," Ginny said simply.
"When he did it to me I couldn't remember what I'd been doing
for hours at a time. I'd find myself somewhere and not know
how I got there."

================

Neville Longbottom has many more small gaps in his memory,
life long, I believe. indicating a less dramatic, longer lasting,
sharing or control by Voldemort.

Why Neville?

The prophecy could refer to Neville or Harry.

Voldemort could have planned on destroying both of them.

He failed with Harry, then spent years subverting Neville
to eliminate him as a threat.

However

A sharing might mark Neville Longbottom as Voldemort's equal.

===========
There will be some delicious plot twists in Deathly Hallows.

I wonder if the Rememberall might be Voldemort's tool...
Oh, Neville doesn't remember where the Rememberall is...

Hope this helps,

Neightran

I speculate that The Deathly Hallows are connected to the number of 7.

After reading many of the theories in this thread, I personally think that the final showdown will involve the highest form of magic, which is not "magic" the way we understand it (being able to convert tea into rum), but the kind of magic that we muggles also have, such as love, kinship, etc. I think that will be a great way to end the series, to remind us that "magic" (being able to convert tea into rum) can only bring you so far, ultimately, it's how you deal with people and it's the bonds and relationships that are magical. And this kind of magic exists for muggles too (a nice moral tale ending to HP series).

Any comments on what I just typed? ;)

It has been stated in multiple places that Hallows can mean "relics" so Deathly Hallows can be referring to the Horcruxes, since they deal with a broken soul and Harry has to destroy them, there is some "Deathly" link.

After reading many of the theories in this thread, I personally think that the final showdown will involve the highest form of magic, which is not "magic" the way we understand it (being able to convert tea into rum), but the kind of magic that we muggles also have, such as love, kinship, etc. I think that will be a great way to end the series, to remind us that "magic" (being able to convert tea into rum) can only bring you so far, ultimately, it's how you deal with people and it's the bonds and relationships that are magical. And this kind of magic exists for muggles too (a nice moral tale ending to HP series).

Any comments on what I just typed? ;)Harry used a Muggle way of attacking Sirius and completely caught him off guard in PoA. I agree it would be great to have a Muggle ending for the HP series. It would make people identify better with the story.

I just want to add that I think we will be into another shocking mystery like we had in Half-Blood Prince. A lot of us are going to be surprised. I doubt it's a simple win/lose situation for Harry and Voldemort.

One of my newest theories, that is still possible but a little crazy.....

The trophy room holds a horcrux or at least signifiant objects of Tom Riddle's past. I believe TMR at 30 when he asked to teach DADA in Dec. 1957 concealed Hufflepuff's cup in the trophy room. First, the trophy room is a very signifcant place for him. It holds two special awards he received at Hogwarts (the place he is most attached) to. One of these awards is even surrounding the chamber incident.


Second, the Prefects List with him on it may be in there, as well as maybe wizarding history book of all that went to Hogwarts (the details that helped him find his Gaunt relatives). He spent years searching for the Gaunt relatives, as memory Riddle exemplifies in COS and I think he would want this trophy room to store a horcrux. Since he couldn't reopen the chamber, he'd take it to the trophy room. But also for more diabolical reasons...I'm not really sure how, but I think Tom was using the trophy room as a student for more diabolical reasons. Keeping thigns of his victims and somehow (dont' ask me how) using the room.

And all the work he did (flirting and charming old Hepzibah) reminded him maybe of how he did this to other females while at Hogwarts. That was another reason he wanted to put the cup in the trophy room. Also to mark himself, as the best one in that room of others who got awards.

It would not be hard to make it "invisible" or whatnot, because Hepzibah was probably able to hide it very well, and I think that maybe one of the cup's powers it was said to possess is to be good at hiding itself, even in plain sight. When Harry and gang try to destroy this horcrux, Ginny will be needed because there is a connection she still has from what happened to her in chamber book. She is like the only one who can beause there is something special about her. I believe when TMR was at Hogwarts he used the trophy room to store some sort of mementos or something of so-called "girlfriends" he had, that were really victims. It makes sense for Riddle to have other victims at Hogwarts. For if he had them at the orphanage and was even able to lure them in a cave, I can't see how he's stop doing it at Hogwarts. And logically, when he entered puberty his victims he preferred changed at some point. I think Ginny is crucial to getting rid of the horcrux, that might expel some awful memories of some sort of things Riddle did within the cup that has a weapon or at least from the room. Ginny is the only girl character who has fought Tom so bravely before and can fight him again!

Whatever...I don't expect you to listen or believe this...I just want to tell someone.

I speculate that Snape will play just a little, but important role.

Harry used a Muggle way of attacking Sirius and completely caught him off guard in PoA. I agree it would be great to have a Muggle ending for the HP series. It would make people identify better with the story.

:lol: Voldemort raises his wand to end the Life of "The Boy Who Lived"... Just then Harry pulls out his 44 Magnum and KAPOW!!! Voldemort lies motionless on the floor, and Harry smiles... "A man's got to know his limitations"... The End:lol:

I think Hagrid may not survive the series. (which is really sad. I like Hagrid.) But, as pointed out in the Underground Lake editorials, Hagrid has fulfilled his role in the story. He was Dumbledore's assistant and one of Harry's mentors. With Dumbledore gone and Harry no longer at Hogwarts, Hagrid's role, plot wise, has been fulfilled. And Jo did say she was killing more characters.

Speaking of guns, the other day I was really thinking of gunshot wounds and whether they can be healed like normal bone fractures in the HP universe... I mean, if the gun shot is towards the arm or maybe the thigh, I think Mdm Pomfrey will not have any problems healing them, but... if it's directed at the heart or the brain?

If snakes can kill in the HP universe, I do not see how bullets cannot kill in the HP universe, even wizards...

I speculate that Snape will play just a little, but important role.

Yes I'm somewhat inclined to that. Something like how Wormtail has a negligible role in HBP... Snape will have less time now, so as to (torment- just joking) let us continue guessing about his loyalties all the way till the final battle? Lol...

Harry used a Muggle way of attacking Sirius and completely caught him off guard in PoA. Didn't they attack Snape instead?? What muggle method did they use to attack Sirius? =)

I speculate that Harry will NOT kill! If he kills I would be very, very crestfallen.

You know, I have this other idea or theory about how the death of Voldemort and/or Harry will play out. A) because wands seem to be impractical, B) because it would seem somewhat against the ethics of "splitting one's soul" for Harry to kill Voldemort, and C) because Snape will be involved somehow with the final moments of the battle, I've come to this outlandish conclusion that the way it will play out will look like this:

Harry and Voldemort are in the midst of the battle. Snape and Nagini flank Voldemort. Voldemort enters into a fight/duel or something (depends on whether wands are involved) and while Voldemort is distracted, Severus kills Nagini, thus leaving only Voldemort to be killed. Through tough tactics, somehow Harry manages to kill Voldemort. Only - SURPRISE - Nagini was not a Horcrux and Voldemort is still alive. This vapory bit of his soul is still grounded on Earth and enters Snape out of desperation. This is both good and bad because A) as Dumbledore said, it must be terribly hard to use a living thing as a Horcrux because the living thing has a mind of its own, and B) Snape must fight with Voldemort trying to possess his mind. Real Snape tries to search Voldemort's mind and discovers Voldemort's wand is a Horcrux (I think it's more likely than Nagini because of its value!) and alerts Harry. Harry goes over and breaks the wand, thus leaving the only remaining bit of Voldemort in possession of Snape who is fighting him off with Occlumency. When it comes down to it, we think Harry will have to kill to bring peace to the world, but instead, Severus uses his wand to kill himself, thus eliminating Voldemort for good because he no longer has any soul remaining on Earth to allow him to exist.

Personally, I think it's one of the most farfetched ideas I have ever come up with, but I kind of like it because it satisfies so much -- Harry doesn't die -- Voldemort does die -- Severus turns out to be a great hero, sacrificing himself for Harry and the world. Sounds good to me.

Didn't they attack Snape instead?? What muggle method did they use to attack Sirius? =)It was in the Shrielking Shack, PoA. Ron was injured and Sirius was holding out his wand. Harry rushed at him and wrestled the wand out of his hand. He was too surprised and too weak from Azkaban to fight back.

You know, I have this other idea or theory about how the death of Voldemort and/or Harry will play out. A) because wands seem to be impractical, B) because it would seem somewhat against the ethics of "splitting one's soul" for Harry to kill Voldemort, and C) because Snape will be involved somehow with the final moments of the battle, I've come to this outlandish conclusion that the way it will play out will look like this:

Harry and Voldemort are in the midst of the battle. Snape and Nagini flank Voldemort. Voldemort enters into a fight/duel or something (depends on whether wands are involved) and while Voldemort is distracted, Severus kills Nagini, thus leaving only Voldemort to be killed. Through tough tactics, somehow Harry manages to kill Voldemort. Only - SURPRISE - Nagini was not a Horcrux and Voldemort is still alive. This vapory bit of his soul is still grounded on Earth and enters Snape out of desperation. This is both good and bad because A) as Dumbledore said, it must be terribly hard to use a living thing as a Horcrux because the living thing has a mind of its own, and B) Snape must fight with Voldemort trying to possess his mind. Real Snape tries to search Voldemort's mind and discovers Voldemort's wand is a Horcrux (I think it's more likely than Nagini because of its value!) and alerts Harry. Harry goes over and breaks the wand, thus leaving the only remaining bit of Voldemort in possession of Snape who is fighting him off with Occlumency. When it comes down to it, we think Harry will have to kill to bring peace to the world, but instead, Severus uses his wand to kill himself, thus eliminating Voldemort for good because he no longer has any soul remaining on Earth to allow him to exist.

Personally, I think it's one of the most farfetched ideas I have ever come up with, but I kind of like it because it satisfies so much -- Harry doesn't die -- Voldemort does die -- Severus turns out to be a great hero, sacrificing himself for Harry and the world. Sounds good to me.

That would be an interesting twist to the story! I like the idea of Snape suddenly revealing his true loyalty right at the very end, becoming a hero but dying before Harry has a chance to recognise him as such to his face.

That would be an interesting twist to the story! I like the idea of Snape suddenly revealing his true loyalty right at the very end, becoming a hero but dying before Harry has a chance to recognise him as such to his face.

This could work because he still owes the Potter's for when James saved his life. Well, at least I don't think he ever made up for it. Not even the Quidditch match in the first game.

Originally Posted by mwbashful18 View Post
You know, I have this other idea or theory about how the death of Voldemort and/or Harry will play out. A) because wands seem to be impractical, B) because it would seem somewhat against the ethics of "splitting one's soul" for Harry to kill Voldemort, and C) because Snape will be involved somehow with the final moments of the battle, I've come to this outlandish conclusion that the way it will play out will look like this:

Harry and Voldemort are in the midst of the battle. Snape and Nagini flank Voldemort. Voldemort enters into a fight/duel or something (depends on whether wands are involved) and while Voldemort is distracted, Severus kills Nagini, thus leaving only Voldemort to be killed. Through tough tactics, somehow Harry manages to kill Voldemort. Only - SURPRISE - Nagini was not a Horcrux and Voldemort is still alive. This vapory bit of his soul is still grounded on Earth and enters Snape out of desperation. This is both good and bad because A) as Dumbledore said, it must be terribly hard to use a living thing as a Horcrux because the living thing has a mind of its own, and B) Snape must fight with Voldemort trying to possess his mind. Real Snape tries to search Voldemort's mind and discovers Voldemort's wand is a Horcrux (I think it's more likely than Nagini because of its value!) and alerts Harry. Harry goes over and breaks the wand, thus leaving the only remaining bit of Voldemort in possession of Snape who is fighting him off with Occlumency. When it comes down to it, we think Harry will have to kill to bring peace to the world, but instead, Severus uses his wand to kill himself, thus eliminating Voldemort for good because he no longer has any soul remaining on Earth to allow him to exist.

Personally, I think it's one of the most farfetched ideas I have ever come up with, but I kind of like it because it satisfies so much -- Harry doesn't die -- Voldemort does die -- Severus turns out to be a great hero, sacrificing himself for Harry and the world. Sounds good to me.

Well, some ideas. Firstly I have not heard of anyone killing themselves in HP universe and I doubt if AK can work as a self-inflicted curse (unless it's reflected in the case of HP and Voldemort 17 years ago in the timeline)

Also, it looks like Snape has no choice but to kill himself, and he had done so out of desperation than heroics.

Also, DD says that V cannot be killed if his horcruxes still exist - so i don't think he will be able to kill Voldemort without all the 6 getting out of the way...

but cheers for the theory... parts of it might be right, who knows? the rest, u can use them for fanfic ;)

Personally, I think it's one of the most farfetched ideas I have ever come up with, but I kind of like it because it satisfies so much -- Harry doesn't die -- Voldemort does die -- Severus turns out to be a great hero, sacrificing himself for Harry and the world. Sounds good to me.


Then shouldn't the series have been called "Severus Snape and the blah blah blah?" Snape is not the hero of this story. Harry is. I have a problem with theories that want to make Snape an antihero or dark hero. He is critical to the overall plot but I don't think he is going to be play much of a role in actually destroying Voldemort.

Well, some ideas. Firstly I have not heard of anyone killing themselves in HP universe and I doubt if AK can work as a self-inflicted curse (unless it's reflected in the case of HP and Voldemort 17 years ago in the timeline)

Also, it looks like Snape has no choice but to kill himself, and he had done so out of desperation than heroics.

Also, DD says that V cannot be killed if his horcruxes still exist - so i don't think he will be able to kill Voldemort without all the 6 getting out of the way...

but cheers for the theory... parts of it might be right, who knows? the rest, u can use them for fanfic ;)

Rowling has never answered any questions about wizard suicide, but I'm likely to think it's still possible. Something tells me that if you apply the same energy into the AK curse when directing it at someone, then the same goes for aiming your wand at yourself.

Also, if you read the crazed theory I posted clearly, you'll see that Snape would not be killing himself out of desperation, because he would actually be doing this in the end because he wants to. He could perfectly well allow Voldemort to go on surviving in him until the time they can come up with some other means of bringing him back. The point which makes him good here and fighting in the end for the good side is the fact that he is trying to stop Voldemort from controlling his body in order to attack Harry, and if Voldemort were possessing his mind to control him, he would try to fight him with Occlumency like he tried to teach Harry to do.

Therefore, he could sneak into Voldemort's mind and find out what is really the final Horcrux. Which brings me to my second point -- if you read my post clearly, you would see that I allowed for all the Horcruxes to be destroyed. I specifically said that Snape would kill Nagini, Harry would succeed in killing Voldemort, but then the realization would come about that he is still alive because he would vaporize again, possess Snape, speak through him (the voice would be all contorted because Snape would be fighting him within his mind) and announce that he still has a final Horcrux. Snape would search within Voldemort's mind if they have become one, and would find that the final Horcrux is actually Voldemort's wand. Harry may have to duel with Snape/Voldmort now that the Priori Incantatem problem is out of the way, and finally Harry manages to get Voldemort's wand, destroy it, thus eliminating all Horcruxes from Earth. Meaning, if Snape kills himself or Harry kills him, then Voldemort would have no other parts of his soul on Earth to ground him, meaning he would die instantly with Snape's death. Therefore, in realizing this, Snape battles with Voldemort in his head and succeeds in AKing himself.

Personally, I don't care if Snape ultimately saves the day that way instead of making Harry kill him. We would have Harry's "defeat" of Voldemort - the only thing is that it wouldn't work perfectly because Harry and Dumbledore would have been wrong about Nagini and so Harry actually taking Voldemort down fair and square still would have this surprise ending in which Snape succeeds, thus redeeming himself.

After reading many of the theories in this thread, I personally think that the final showdown will involve the highest form of magic, which is not "magic" the way we understand it (being able to convert tea into rum), but the kind of magic that we muggles also have, such as love, kinship, etc. I think that will be a great way to end the series, to remind us that "magic" (being able to convert tea into rum) can only bring you so far, ultimately, it's how you deal with people and it's the bonds and relationships that are magical. And this kind of magic exists for muggles too (a nice moral tale ending to HP series).

Any comments on what I just typed? ;)

I would say, your almost certain to be true... Their wands wont fight because their brother wands. They _could_ be forced to battle again... but i dont think JKR will overdo that whole ring of light and phoenix song thing...

Even so... the final fight should be pretty outstanding... ;)

Ooh, it just occurred to me that the only other way for Harry to kill Nagini, meaning without Snape doing it (because I don't see any other way for Harry or anyone else to get close enough to Nagini without Voldemort being right there) would be for Fawkes to do it. Rowling said Fawkes would be back. Perhaps that's how.

Dude, I just figured this out. The words 'Deathly' and 'Hallows' both have seven letters! I think Jo did this on purpose!

Dude, I just figured this out. The words 'Deathly' and 'Hallows' both have seven letters! I think Jo did this on purpose!

Wow. That's pretty amazing. I love JKR. She is amazing.

But really though! She always leaves us with things to think about........... that's what makes her so great!

You have a fair argument. Since that the number seven is a powerful number in the wizarding world, it does seem likey that J.K. would try to make the words seven letters. However, I don't think that's the only reason she chose "Deathly" over "Deadly" for the title. There are other reasons for the word choice. Both for conxext and grammitcal reasons.

First, think about how each word sounds. Which combination sounds better? Deadly Hallows, or Deathly Hallows? While the difference is miniscule, in the end, that th sound seems to go better with the word hallows.

Second, while the two words have very similar meanings, in the end...they are different. For example, you don't say, "That is a deathly toxin," You more commonly say, "That is a deadly toxin." In this context, you use deadly as in the toxin will surly kill you. However, you don't commonly use "deathly" when talking about things like this. It's more common to you deathly as to say somthing is similar or like death. For example, "The forest had a deatly feel to it." You wouldn't normally use deadly for saying things like this.

So, while you have a point, I feel the main reason she chose "Deathly," as opposed to "Deadly," is maining protaining to what she's using the world for. I feel that she's trying to say that the Hallows (whatever they are) have a deathly feel to it. Maybe it's a graveyard or a gallow, but that's a dicussion for another thread. However, I beleive that she's saying that the Hallows won't directly kill Harry. But, maybe somthing else will. ;)

You pose a very good argument as well. Now that I think of it, Hallows wouldn't feel deadly, but deathly. Touche.

I really think my Voldy is going to prevail. I do not know how or when he will do it, but I just know it. I have a very, very strong hunch. And for the record, may I just say that I love Voldemort dearly, and will be depressed if he dies in DH.

To take Harry beyond the Veil would be beyond the pail, so to speak. :elaugh:

Rather than beyond the lunch bucket, try going "beyond the pale" instead :)

Deathly sounds more like pertaining to death than deadly meaning "ability to kill."

Wow. That's pretty amazing. I love JKR. She is amazing.

Awesome

I also have something else. To me, Deathly Hallows always sounded like a place. Maybe the Deathly Hallows is the name of Voldy's lair, since both words have seven letters and Voldy is obsessed with the number seven?

Okay i have two things. i'm assuming y'all have already figured this out but i'm still in shock and must post it. okay i'm posting an e-mail and response. the original e-mail was written my a friend of mine. And here is my reaction:

i am i just a retard did u relize it is harry potter and the deathly hallows not hollows. So then i looked up the meaning of hallows and it means

1. To make or set apart as holy.
2. To respect or honor greatly; revere.

So what do u think the bok title mean. Is either voldemort or harry holy or one of them id respected greatly. did u relize that?

----------------------------------------------------------response by me
wouldn't it be the respected death. ohh!!! dumbledore. respected death. whoa. *eyes widen* its a holy death. holy means pure and has to do with religion and God (whoa. HP is a christian book. officially. my friends and i found another way to prove its christian. i'll tell you later). so a pure religious death. maybe a sacrifice of some sort. generally religious sacrifices are considered holy. when dumbledore said "please severus" as he died. someway related to sacrifice? ? ?? maybe. ponder this i will. okay, my hand really hurts so, ttyl
------------------------------------------------------------other thing---
i was watching a special on the food network about halloween and it said that the spanish (or someone) thought that all dead roamed the earth until halloween and thats when they went "elsewhere" (i don't know what "elsewhere" is to be" i forgot) um...luna lovegood felt that behind the curtain was the dead who had died there (sry if i'm screwing anything up here with my lack of knowledge. i'm in the process of rereading the books). maybe they are waiting to go "elsewhere"
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another thing on halloween. martin luther posted the 95 problems with the bible on something to a door on halloween. I don't know where to go with that, but...
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the other way that HP is christian (reference to e-mail).

Harry Potter is alot like "hurry ka puter" (i've misspelled here. i knwo for sure. but its a hindi phrase) this phrase isn't common but litterally means "son of god." thats a direct translation. I'm sure JK knows of this. she must have had a reason to pick "harry potter: as the nam; this would be a very good reason.
------------------------------------------------------
know i'm trying to piece this altogether. harry potter is very closely linked ( in my opinion) to the holocaust. it could also be the american civil war, or anything about racism. I think it has links to everything, but has the strongest to the holocaust and WWII. there is a thread here relating HP to the real world. most are talking about WWII.

now harry is also the son of god. he is the saviour from the devil (aka. voldie) is there anywhere in the book that they refer to voldemort as the devil? because if there is thats a dead give away.

okay, what i do knw about Jesus (which is very little. i'm not christian) is that he was burned because he was guilty for something (right??? i'm really very sorry for my lack of knoweldge) if he was guilty for something i would assume not many liked him. no one liked harry (the wizard world) at one point. mabe a connection. well maybe not. (i'm not doing this "thinking" part right, but i'm on to something).

jesus also rose from the dead. hmmm.....are we thinking what i'm thinking? i seriously doubt harry's going to rise from the dead though. that would call for another book. what about the graveyard part in book four. does that get to count for "rising". but there is no way i'm giong to start comparing Jesus and Voldie. JK might just be murdered if she tried to do that with HP. Laura Mallory would go "I told you so". (hey i just noticed Mallory starts with the prefix "mal-" which means bad. ROTFLOL)

what else did jesus do? he died for our sins. and how do we start linking all of this to racism? Maybe its the whole Isreal thing? And where does the lucky number 7 come in? Oh there's so much to fit in. and so little time!

I let you guys take it from here. I think i've just temporarily lost my mind.

Wow! Jo probably did put 7 letters in 'Deathly' and 'Hallow' on purpose. That doesn't sound like a coincidence. But the Harry Potter being the son of god... I'm not so sure about that. For one thing, Harry Potter is just a common name in England. I doubt his name had any significance at all. Jo dreamt him up instantly; I don't think she thought about any meaning behind his name.

Deathly sounds more like pertaining to death than deadly meaning "ability to kill."

though the phrase "holy ability to kill" would make sense because its Harry Potter killing off the evil lord in the wizard world. He is the only one "able to kill" him but sinse it has the world hallows that makes it holy or respected. so a holy/respected ability to kill would be really cool.

But Deathly does sound like its pretaining to death rather than the ability to kill. but my reasoning for that isn't based off logic. its just what i prefer. so really, its still 50-50. Unless you have a reason that i haven't figured out yet.

In Websters Thesaurus, synanims to hallow are bless, consectrate, sanctify...

the defination is simular.

Theory:

The final battle will be on Hallowed ground. Like in a graveyard. Perhaps over Harrys parents' graves.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Harry defeats Vol while protecting his parents graves. What if the consectated ground is deathly to Voldy.

In Websters Thesaurus, synanims to hallow are bless, consectrate, sanctify...

the defination is simular.
That's for the verb 'to hallow'. The noun 'a hallow' is a thing that has been blessed, sanctified or consecrated. It doesn't have to be literal like a graveyard, it can also be something regarded as special culturally. The Horcruxes might fit this description - the objects were regarded as special in the wizarding world and Voldemort by putting pieces of his soul in each object made them hallows to him.

omg look at this quote i found on wiki about the 4 hallowsThe Sword of Light was a sword that ...belonged to Nuada Airgeadlámh (Nuada of the Silver Hand) looking up Nuada Airgeadlámh i found Having lost his arm, Nuada was no longer eligible for kingship, and he was replaced as king by Bres...But Nuada's, having had his lost arm replaced by a working silver one by the physician Dian Cecht and the wright Creidne (and later with a new arm of flesh and blood by Dian Cecht's son Miach). Bres was removed from the kingship, having ruled for seven years, and Nuada was restored. He ruled for twenty years remind you of worm tails hjand dont it?

I don't know abt P Pettigrew's being in line for kingship, but I do know that sounds much like the tale of Lughnasadh for whom the celebration is named. That's an interesting catch.

Glad to see more posts to this thread.

TTFN

annie_magus: thts not wat i meant. could the hand be hand be a horcrux? a weapon? a plot point? is wat i meant!!

the hand...i don't think so...it doesn't seem reasonable that voldemort would make a horcrux 1) infornt of all the death eaters and 2) put a horcrux in wormtails possesion, i mean he isn't really the most reliable person...

I'm sorry. Apparently I missed something. I'd be interested in more on how you draw that conclusion. There's no telling what all Voldy has used for horcruces.

TTFN

ok the m=is Not a horcrux but being conected 2 hallows it might be an aceidental hint 2 d location of a horcrux.

Ooh, it just occurred to me that the only other way for Harry to kill Nagini, meaning without Snape doing it (because I don't see any other way for Harry or anyone else to get close enough to Nagini without Voldemort being right there) would be for Fawkes to do it. Rowling said Fawkes would be back. Perhaps that's how.

What about Wormtail killing Nagini. In CoS Jo showed us how he detested the snake, how Voldemort threatened to feed Wormtail to her, and how Wormtail owes Harry for saving his life in PoA. Could Peter redeem himself by killing the horcrux snake and give Harry the opportunity of finally defeat Voldemort?

ok the m=is Not a horcrux but being conected 2 hallows it might be an aceidental hint 2 d location of a horcrux.

Oh, I see sorta. Could you elaborate a bit more? Thank you. :D :cool:

TTFN

ASnyder : mkes sense i always thought the snake was the swoerd (thje fangs)_ and the silver hand makersw it ya thts d conection...

annie_magus : i rerally cant but mebbe wormtail will destroy nagini (who is is a 'hallow" annd fangs r like swords) causing a conection

annie_magus : i rerally cant but mebbe wormtail will destroy nagini (who is is a 'hallow" annd fangs r like swords) causing a conection

annie_magus : i rerally cant but mebbe wormtail will destroy nagini (who is is a 'hallow" annd fangs r like swords) causing a conection

annie_magus : i rerally cant but mebbe wormtail will destroy nagini (who is is a 'hallow" annd fangs r like swords) causing a conection

annie_magus : i rerally cant but mebbe wormtail will destroy nagini (who is is a 'hallow" annd fangs r like swords) causing a conection

nobody seems too dure on the meaning of HALLOWS so i defined it on google and this is what i found (stuff in bold is what ive added):

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year ie the wizarding world, when the Veil Between the Worlds veil in the department of mysteriesgrows thin and the spirits of the dead the whispers heardmay return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworldvoldemort dies; the final Harvest festivalcelebration

That's really interesting.

after doing my research and theororizing on what "deathly hallows" means
i think ive decided its the horcruxes of the founders
i hope there is a lot of stuff about the founders in this book because it greatly interests me
i would love to learn the history about them

I think Deathly Hallows means the grounds where the dead roam. Maybe the underworld or graveyard.

I'm sorry to interrupt any current discussion but I wanted to put forth my theory regarding the instance of the dragon in the story as we see on the US DH Deluxe Edition cover.

I started a new thread on it but of course it got moved to the Snape Triumverate for a specific reason: I am calling it and saying that Snape is the dragon on the cover in Animagus form!

I say this because A) this particular dragon seems to be an Opaleye, the most calm and tame and of all the dragons, which might say something about Snape's nature: on the outside he appears scary and dangerous, but he's actually not as bad on the inside as the outside would have you think. B) The dragon is clearly letting the Trio ride on its back and is specifically taking them somewhere -- how does this dragon understand what the Trio wants and is okay with this transportation scheme? Unless it's a human in Animagus form imparting its human cognition into the animal and taking the Trio to where they need to be.

So that's my theory on the instance of the dragon within the story. I think it will turn out to be Snape. And if it's not Snape, I still hold that it's an Animagus dragon.

I know this probably sounds out there but I'm trying to explain the instance of the Trio flying on a dragon's back without getting killed by it, and the only thing I have is that it's an Animagus. But I can't at all think of anyone else who might fit the dragon description, except Snape.

nobody seems too dure on the meaning of HALLOWS so i defined it on google and this is what i found (stuff in bold is what ive added):

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year ie the wizarding world, when the Veil Between the Worlds veil in the department of mysteriesgrows thin and the spirits of the dead the whispers heardmay return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworldvoldemort dies; the final Harvest festivalcelebration Well, I think that Deathly Hallows refers to the veil. Well, two veils actually. One in the physical world, and one in the spirtitual world. Wan't hallows a term for the device they used to kill people with in the mideval times? And Deathly...well, means that we are dealing with death. I like this theory the best.

I think the deathly hallows are the spirit-type thingies that come out of a murderer's wand during Priori Incantatem. It was never said what those spirits were called right? Well maybe they are the deathly hallows.

well the world between two viels makes sense and i think this would be a perfect ending to voldemort he gets stuck with all of the people that he has done harm and carma catches up to him. also if the fight is in the deathly hallows then the "love" factor could be the love by all of the people that harry has that eventually helps him defeat voldemort. like sirius and harrys parents and cedric and all of the others who liked harry will help him defeat LV.

Theories Relating to the Four Hallows of Arthurian Legend (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=99372)
Theories on the Veil and Beyond (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=99374)
Theories Relating to Halloween (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=99375)

These three links were dead when I tried to follow them.

TTFN

First time poster, so please be nice :p

I'm sorry to interrupt any current discussion but I wanted to put forth my theory regarding the instance of the dragon in the story as we see on the US DH Deluxe Edition cover.

I started a new thread on it but of course it got moved to the Snape Triumverate for a specific reason: I am calling it and saying that Snape is the dragon on the cover in Animagus form!

I say this because A) this particular dragon seems to be an Opaleye, the most calm and tame and of all the dragons, which might say something about Snape's nature: on the outside he appears scary and dangerous, but he's actually not as bad on the inside as the outside would have you think. B) The dragon is clearly letting the Trio ride on its back and is specifically taking them somewhere -- how does this dragon understand what the Trio wants and is okay with this transportation scheme? Unless it's a human in Animagus form imparting its human cognition into the animal and taking the Trio to where they need to be.

So that's my theory on the instance of the dragon within the story. I think it will turn out to be Snape. And if it's not Snape, I still hold that it's an Animagus dragon.

I know this probably sounds out there but I'm trying to explain the instance of the Trio flying on a dragon's back without getting killed by it, and the only thing I have is that it's an Animagus. But I can't at all think of anyone else who might fit the dragon description, except Snape.

Oooooo, I like it. Very good thought. And if you look at the cover closely, the dragons feet look VERY human-like.

What about the white beard/goatie type hair? I'm not well versed on dragons, so I don't know if they typically have hair or not, but that seemed slightly suspicious as well.

As a side note, I figured I would throw a few ideas out here as well since this is a general thread. I don't have a lot of answers, but have a few questions that I have not seen brought up in the few threads that I have been riffling through the past couple days.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to significance, if any, of the following:

- On JKRs website, she mentions that Harry, Hermione and Ron's wands happen to be made from each of the three cores available at Ollivanders. Is it possible that, combined in use, they may be more powerful than when used individually, or in conjunction with other wands with the same core? Does the symbol on the DH US version cover art have anything to do with this?

- Also on her website in answer to a FAQ I believe (or a rumor, can't remember which) she says that Snape does not have a daughter. I thought that the way it was answered was odd. Why not say that Snape has no children instead of just stating specifically that he has no daughter. Granted, that's what the question was about (whether or not so-and-so is his daughter), but still seemed strange that she didn't just say he has no children. Is it possible that Snape has a son? If so, who would it be?


I'm still re-reading the books in preparation for OoTP movie and DH and am currently only on book 2, so I may have more thoughts, questions etc. once I finish the series through HBP again.

Curious Fact:

Hey, think of this Godrics Hollow, Godric Gryffindor. Godric's Hollow might have something to do with his Horcrux item and think of his last name, Gryffindor. It may sound wicked but it sounds Griffin-door.

Gryffindor- Griffin-door
Slythering- Slith-ring
Ravenclaw- Raven's-claw
Hufflepuff- Dunno

wow! i never thought of this! maybe there will be a door or something in Godrics Hollow that Harry might uncover? they might all be a hiding spot or someting for the horcruxes.

Okay, segueing away from current topics of discussion...
...I've recently undertaken the daunting task of reading all 6 HP books b4 the release (starting yesterday, meaning I have less than 2 weeks!!). I just finished SS/PS this afternoon, and found an interesting tidbit that might be of importance in DH.

US paperback, pg. 10:
"I know that," said Professor McGonagall irritably. "But that's no reason to lose our heads. People are being downright careless, out on the streets in broad daylight, not even dressed in Muggle clothes, swapping rumors."
She threw a sharp, sideways glance at Dumbledore here, as though hoping he was going to tell her something, but he didn't, so she went on. "A fine thing it would be if, on the very day You-Know-Who seems to have disappeared at last, the Muggles found out about us all."

Very interesting. I suspect that with the ultimate defeat of Voldemort by the Boy-Who-Lived, the wizarding world will be in an unprecedented uproar, much more-so than in the first book when the details were sketchy. That's why I feel that the final breach of the International Statute of Secrecy - which, as shown above, was foreshadowed in Book 1 - will occur in Book 7. It's logical and climactic and very, very realistic. What do you think?

I like that idea padfoot_rox !

I too am re-reading the series (just now started PoA) and have noticed several things that I didn't the first time. Things just have much more meaning this time around. I can't wait to get to OOTP and HBP since the series really started to get complex in those years.

I think it is a high possibility that the worlds could collide so to speak, for the better of both worlds. It's a bit idealistic, but hey what can I say, I like to be optimistic. :)

ahhhhhhhh!
13 more days!!
i cant even take it anymore its that intense!!!
im going to die of major anticipation

so anyways
im pretty sure the title is refering to the horcruxes
but just sounds better than "harry potter and the horcruxes"
similair to how the half-blood prince storyline wasnt really HUGE but much of the story has to do with snape, and snape is the half-blood prince
so its like saying"harry potter and snape"
only
better sounding