CoSForums Archive - Was Snape Voldemort's potions specialist?

black&potter

June 1st, 2003, 2:30 am

Everyone knows snape used to be a Death Eater.
Befor he turned on voldemort and become a spy for Dumbledore, What are the chances of him being a potion master for Voldemort?
Noone really knows what he used to do so i want to hear others opinion on this matter...:??:

FawkesBox

June 1st, 2003, 2:33 am

Why not! This is a very interesting theory! Clearly this is Snape's specialty- besides DADA. Perhaps he was even responsible for finding the recipe of the potion that gave Voldemort his "true" body back in the end of GoF or some of the others that were used in Voldemort's "transformations."

Weatherby

June 1st, 2003, 2:40 am

This has been touched on in other threads. Rotsiepots had a good theory about this somewhere in a Snape thread.

I think it's possible. I think Rowling would need a good reason to keep Snape alive after Voldemort returned. This could be it. If he did create potions for Voldemort he would want him to come back to assist him in becoming immortal again despite loyalty or not if he couldn't find someone else qualified for the job.

aiko amaya

June 1st, 2003, 2:42 am

Naw I think all of his knowlegde in the dark arts is what did it for him . Remember I beleive Sirris telling harry that Snape knew more hex's and curses than the 7th years in his first year? I think the dark arts is his forte, but his potions ability is also good, but just not as good.

black&potter

June 1st, 2003, 2:49 am

I dont think Voldemort will want him to come back in fact i think he knows he left them forever I believe he is the one Voldemort talks about in the end of GoF that one has left us forever and he will be killed of course But is it possible .............Snape May have a secret collection of a few death eaters hairs he may have worked with at one time and use the to make Poly-juice potion to infiltrate the Death eaters circle as a spy for dumbledore once again?

Weatherby

June 1st, 2003, 2:51 am

Voldemort forced others to work for him why not Snape?

aiko amaya

June 1st, 2003, 2:53 am

I think Voldermorts desire right now is to kill Snap not make him work for him. Plus making him work for him would be stupid, he can probably fight of the imperius curse and is likely to be a traitor, not a very good mignion if you ask me.

Weatherby

June 1st, 2003, 2:58 am

Snape has certain talents.. This is just speculation of course but it's worth thinking about.
I'm open to other suggestions you have. I'm trying to comfort myself that Snape won't be dead in Ootp for betraying Voldemort.

black&potter

June 1st, 2003, 3:04 am

i dont see this as a strong theory because the imperious curse is illegal but does anyone think Snape may be under Dumbledores control for all this time?
i mean think about it anytime dumbledore has said even a slight hint against something Snape has said Snape imediately drops the subject or is that Snape just showing respect and loyalty?

hedwig7

June 1st, 2003, 3:14 am

Originally posted by FawkesBox (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=346315#post346315))
Why not! This is a very interesting theory! Clearly this is Snape's specialty- besides DADA. Perhaps he was even responsible for finding the recipe of the potion that gave Voldemort his "true" body back in the end of GoF or some of the others that were used in Voldemort's "transformations."

VERY interesting. i was thinking along the exact same lines... hmmm maybe Snape taught Voldemort/Wormtail that potion at his 'great personal risk' that might have been some sort of plan to trap Voldemort?? now maybe Voldemort having a true body has made him easier to defeat- believe it or not and now Voldemort in his true body has opened the gateways to enable Snape to do something against Voldemort? and 'black&potter' your theory was also interesting - maybe Snape did use the polyjuice potion to turn into another death eater (but thats 4 another thread)

Keep up the good work guys!!! (only 20 days to go!!!) :clappy:

Barbara Kennedy

June 1st, 2003, 6:42 am

I believe some of this information was covered in these threads.

What did Snape mean by "putting a stopper in death"?
http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6234

Why did Snape join Voldemort in the first place?
http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8253

In addition, these threads MAY touch upon the subject too. At least, they may also interest you.

Why Don't Death Eaters Hate Snape?
http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8356

tabby

June 1st, 2003, 6:59 am

Originally posted by black&potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=346384#post346384))
i dont see this as a strong theory because the imperious curse is illegal but does anyone think Snape may be under Dumbledores control for all this time?
i mean think about it anytime dumbledore has said even a slight hint against something Snape has said Snape imediately drops the subject or is that Snape just showing respect and loyalty?

I want to give Dumbledore the benefit of the doubt and simply say that it's just Snape showing respect and loyalty. I think Snape feels he owes Dumbledore. If he hadn't been for him Snape would be in Azkaban for supporting Voldemort at the moment. That would have been the legal action Dumbledore was required to take when Snape first approached him about changing sides. Instead Dumbledore choose to trust Snape and use him for good. Giving Snape the a second chance at life and an opportunity to redeem himself. Snape feels he's in debt.

Ofcourse it's possible that he's under the imperious curse. I just don't like the idea of it.

sarcasticx514

June 1st, 2003, 11:46 pm

Originally posted by black&potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=346384#post346384))
i dont see this as a strong theory because the imperious curse is illegal but does anyone think Snape may be under Dumbledores control for all this time?
i mean think about it anytime dumbledore has said even a slight hint against something Snape has said Snape imediately drops the subject or is that Snape just showing respect and loyalty?

Snape owes Dumbledore a lot. Dumbledore gave Snape a clean and fresh start, a job, meanwhile others would have shut him out, or put him in Azkaban. Yet he gives him all his trust and Dumbledore shows loyalty towards him, as you read in the end when the Minister of Magic didn't trust the fact a former D.E. is a professor. So yeah, Snape does have a lot of respect and loyalty for Dumbledore.

I also wouldn't be suprised if Snape was the one making the potions since he is excellent with it. It wouldn't been smart for Voldemort to pick anyone else, other than Snape.

black&potter

June 2nd, 2003, 6:36 pm

exactly sarcastic- thanks for that

sarcasticx514

June 2nd, 2003, 9:06 pm

Originally posted by black&potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=349120#post349120))
exactly sarcastic- thanks for that

glad to help you out with it, black&potter. :)

black&potter

June 3rd, 2003, 1:55 am

i like your views you seem to have a good head on your shoulders

Barbara Kennedy

June 13th, 2003, 12:35 am

Originally posted by black&potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=346343#post346343))
I dont think Voldemort will want him to come back in fact i think he knows he left them forever I believe he is the one Voldemort talks about in the end of GoF that one has left us forever and he will be killed of course But is it possible .............Snape May have a secret collection of a few death eaters hairs he may have worked with at one time and use the to make Poly-juice potion to infiltrate the Death eaters circle as a spy for dumbledore once again?

I had thought about this very theory but you outdid me by one step. I had never thought about Snape having a collection of hair or fingernail clippings, etc. that he could have tucked away for such an opportunity.
He very well could have gathered such things while he was spying for Dumbledore over the years.

tttiiimmmmmmyyy

June 13th, 2003, 1:41 pm

dorcasderr

June 13th, 2003, 6:37 pm

I don't think Dumbledore would use the Imperio curse for any reason, especially not for years and years. I think Snape truly turned to the good side. I also think it is highly likely that he was potions master for Voldemort. True, he is gifted in the Dark Arts, but then, presumably, so are all the Death Eaters. His abilities as potions master are more unique.

FirefightingMuggle

June 13th, 2003, 6:50 pm

I've said before and I'll say again. Snape is a very quick witted, intelligent wizard. I would think that making potions is not exactly easy magic, and Snape is capable of doing it because he is smart. Just because he knows the Dark Arts doesn't mean that he uses them (anymore). He easily could have been Voldemort's potions master. But at the same time he could be a spy for the good guys. How? He fudges (hehe) up the potions so they don't do what Voldemort thinks they will. Snape isn't going to harm the innocent. At the same time, he is helping Dumbledore, but Voldey doesn't know that now does he?

Silver Phoenix

June 13th, 2003, 6:53 pm

Yes. Snape is deffinatly gifted in the area of potions. Lupin says so himself when he states that most wizards aren't up to making the potion that Snape has been making for him. So, I wouldn't be suprised if Voldie had Snape on hand for all those difficult potions.

jglovesdolphins

June 13th, 2003, 10:18 pm

No way!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean Snape is evil but not that evil.

DocHollidaywe

June 13th, 2003, 10:47 pm

Perhaps he was the one who created the potion that brought Voldermort back to LIFE

FawkesBox

June 14th, 2003, 2:43 pm

Originally posted by tttiiimmmmmmyyy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=369397#post369397))
Ever hear of Occam's Razor? ;)

I did, but clearly JKR did not.;)

dorcasderr

June 14th, 2003, 6:41 pm

Hey Firefighting Muggle. Interesting thought about Snape fudging the potions, but he couldn't do too much of that after he became a spy or he would be caught...Perhaps he adjusted some potions to wear off after a bit, where "made as prescribed" would have a permanent effect (this would take even MORE skill than either fudging the potion in the first place or just making it outright).

black&potter

June 14th, 2003, 8:31 pm

I really dont think Snape invinted the potion that brought Voldemort back because it says it is "ancient".

jordmundt6

June 15th, 2003, 1:47 am

He could very easily have been the "potions" specialist in Voldemort's inner circle, but he definitely did not invent the potion that brought Voldemort back. I wouldn't be surprised if that sucker didn't turn out to be older than Herpo the Foul (an ancient Greek).

dorcasderr

June 15th, 2003, 3:42 am

More Ancient Magic? I hope we learn more about Ancient Magic in future books and I'll bet Snape knows a lot about Ancient Magic.

jordmundt6

June 15th, 2003, 4:56 am

Yes, I bet he does. But again--Snape didn't develop this, it could be older than the Hogwarts 4. But it does seem to be up his alley since it combines his two great loves.

Severely Snapped

June 16th, 2003, 5:36 am

No, Snape didn't invent it. I was wrong about that. Voldemort himself says, "...it is an old piece of Dark Magic, the potion that revived me tonight..." [Chapter 33, "The Death Eaters", GoF].

But I'd bet you my next paycheck Snape was the one who said, "Here it is, my Lord! Just what you've been looking for!" while holding up some god-awful dusty tome big enough to land a plane on. The boy knows his potions...and his Dark Magic.

black&potter

June 17th, 2003, 1:49 am

probably but we will soon see

jordmundt6

June 17th, 2003, 10:26 am

Severely Snapped--So, you're asying this is all a back-up plan (at least the revival) that Voldemort set up before his downfall just in case the unexpected occurred, or are you saying that Snape is disloyal now. Probably the former, but you're wording was a little ambiguous.

Weatherby

June 17th, 2003, 10:48 am

Please keep it friendly jordmundt6. :)
Severely Snapped seemed to be suggesting Snape helped Voldemort with his potions. It's a popular theory that he did help him become immortal the first time around. I don't think he helped him this time myself but others may.

black&potter

June 18th, 2003, 12:48 am

I just don't see how or why he would have helped him this time around.
Now, the first time I'm betting on it .

Please no arguing or criticizing others in my thread !!!!!!!!!!!
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jordmundt6

June 18th, 2003, 12:54 am

Um, what happened? I was actually impressed by Severely Snapped's post, but just couldn't work out exactly what it meant from the two possibilities it left open. I was just a little confused. Guess I forgot a ? at the end.

Severely Snapped

June 18th, 2003, 4:56 am

All's well, folks, all's well. I didn't think jordmundt6 was challenging me or attacking me or my post...he's absolutely right, I didn't really clarify what I meant. (I'm just such a Snape-nut I stupidly assume everyone knows I think he's on the good side to stay. ;) )

jordmundt6, black&potter and Weatherby are correct: I meant back in the day, when Snape was a genuine mustache-twirling tattooed bad guy, he may very well have been the one who helped Voldemort find the potion. And for exactly the reason you said: as a backup plan in case the unthinkable happened...in case one of the many steps Voldie took "to guard myself against mortal death" failed.

jordmundt6

June 18th, 2003, 5:01 am

Okay, as I said earlier, that's a really good thought. And yeah, that does actually seem like Snape's style. It's the pursuit of a goal because it's a challenge. I bet if he left Dumbledore a detailed report on it, he could even reconcile his spy-role with it. Good thoughts.

Severely Snapped

June 18th, 2003, 5:11 am

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=380065#post380065))
I bet if he left Dumbledore a detailed report on it, he could even reconcile his spy-role with it. Good thoughts.

OOOH! You just gave me a REALLY intriguing idea.

What if Snape "found" that potion for Voldemort after he became Dumbledore's spy? What if there is some dangerous side-effect or after-effect to it that Snape told DD about, but [conveniently] "forgot" to tell Voldemort?

And maybe that's the reason for DD's infamous look of triumph when Harry tells him about Voldemort's resurrection in GoF. Maybe Dumbledore knows something about that potion that Voldie doesn't.

jordmundt6

June 18th, 2003, 5:14 am

Very intriguing. But the reaction wasn't to the spell itself, it was to the use of Harry's blood. Maybe Snape found that there's a 1 in a million chance of side effect and Dumbledore knows that Harry is one of the carriers for that side effect for some reason and is therefore pleased in spite of the grave situation.

black&potter

June 18th, 2003, 8:26 pm

Very interesting , in fact that would be exciting ...I'm impressed
I'm almost speechless on that what a cool idea.

FawkesBox

June 18th, 2003, 9:54 pm

Excellent idea- perhaps it has to do with his being the heir of Gryffindor.

dorcasderr

June 20th, 2003, 4:51 am

How could Snape have predicted that Voldemort would need blood to return, in case what DID happen happened? How could he have known (before Voldemort was first defeated by Harry) that he would use Harry's blood, and how could he brew a potion that would react with the blood of the heir of Gryffindor, when no one know who that would be (if anyone)? Too many variables, even if it IS a fun theory.

Severely Snapped

June 20th, 2003, 5:08 am

Well, if Snape knew the potion, he would certainly know that it required the flesh of a servant, the bone of a father, and the blood of an enemy. He needn't have known who that enemy would be.

And whatever ELSE Snape might know about the potion (that Voldemort doesn't know) wouldn't have to be specifically tied to Harry. For example, what if the fine print said, "Oh, but by the way, if you use the blood of a child, your nose will fall off by the next harvest moon." So now Dumbledore looks triumphant because he realizes...um...that Voldie's nose is gonna fall off.

:p

Well, anyway, I think you get the point...I hope, anyway...

jordmundt6

June 20th, 2003, 7:28 am

Plus, Snape knows Voldemort. He might figure Voldemort would use the blood of whoever defeated him to make himself even stronger than before and cancel out any advantage the opponent had.

InvasionOfTheGuru4

June 20th, 2003, 4:57 pm

It's a great theory, but I don't understand why Voldemort would need a potion specialist.... he just snaps and kills people. But maybe Snape would explain things to him about potions.

Barbara Kennedy

July 6th, 2003, 12:29 am

Potions are used to prolong life and heal injuries as well as other things. That is part of what Voldemort desires, never ending life.

Amadeus

July 6th, 2003, 1:29 am

I think it is a possibility. Not a lot of people know more about Potions than Snape. Even Lupin said so..

SiriusBlack13

July 7th, 2003, 6:05 am

I agree with those theories. Question : Where did snape learn the dark arts anyway he went to hogwarts not durmstrang

UselessCharmMaster

December 17th, 2003, 3:41 pm

I agree with those theories. Question : Where did snape learn the dark arts anyway he went to hogwarts not durmstrang

Snape parents don't seem wealthy and possibly they couldn't afford to send him to Durmstrang. And first, Durmstrang is not a Dark Magic school! They only say that Karkaroff teaches Dark arts to his pupils.
Snape could learn some Dark Arts from his parents, or from their books, and then, when he became Death Eater, from Voldie and company. And we know he was good at DADA - to fight something you must know a lot about it.

muggleguest

December 17th, 2003, 4:08 pm

Okay, here's a thought:

We know Voldemort was then and still is now searching for life and immortality. That's why he wanted the Philosopher's Stone back in the first book.

Well, if Nicholas Flamel and Albus Dumbledore made a Philosopher's Stone once, then in theory at least someone else can do it again. Someone like a Potions Master, nudge, nudge, wink, wink....

And we know that Snape has taught at Hogwarts for 14 years. So he's been there since September 1981 (I think that's the year) and Harry's parents were killed on October 31, 1981. So Snape was on the Hogwarts payroll for two whole months before Voldemort made his little error in spell-casting and blew himself up.

What if Snape was there because Voldemort wanted him to get close to Dumbledore so that Dumbledore would show Snape how to make a new PS?

And what if Snape did make a new PS and destroyed it in front of DUmbledore? Would that have been the reason why Dumbledore trusts SNape? Because he was in the position to give Voldemort what he wanted more than anything else on earth and deliberately destroyed it to show who'se side he was on?

Thoughts?

Barbara Kennedy

October 10th, 2004, 4:42 am

OOOH! You just gave me a REALLY intriguing idea.

What if Snape "found" that potion for Voldemort after he became Dumbledore's spy? What if there is some dangerous side-effect or after-effect to it that Snape told DD about, but [conveniently] "forgot" to tell Voldemort?

And maybe that's the reason for DD's infamous look of triumph when Harry tells him about Voldemort's resurrection in GoF. Maybe Dumbledore knows something about that potion that Voldie doesn't.

That is a very interesting possibility.

Dumbledore definitely has some kind of knowledge that sparked his interest at that point.

hpfan_08

October 10th, 2004, 5:02 am

WOW BK you really brought this convo back from the dead.

OOOH! You just gave me a REALLY intriguing idea.

What if Snape "found" that potion for Voldemort after he became Dumbledore's spy? What if there is some dangerous side-effect or after-effect to it that Snape told DD about, but [conveniently] "forgot" to tell Voldemort?

And maybe that's the reason for DD's infamous look of triumph when Harry tells him about Voldemort's resurrection in GoF. Maybe Dumbledore knows something about that potion that Voldie doesn't.

That is highly possible that Snape could have made him a potion will a serious after affect.

Maybe 2-3 years after it’s drank it wears off or something, leaving LV completely vulnerable to Harry.

Freeradical

October 10th, 2004, 5:14 am

Voldemorte would have settled for nothing but the best help available in his quest for immortality. Of course, Nicholas Flammel would have been a better choise, but probably refused to work for him.

I wonder what Snape's reputation as an alchemist was before he joined the staff?

I cannot lay hands on my copy of SS, but if the movie quote is correct, one of his opening statements in Basic Potions was "and even put a stopper on death." evidently another foreshadow.

I don't doubt that Voldemorte and Snape collaborated on this method of ressurection, although Snape would have been charged with the research and development, while Voldemorte was trying to conquer the world.

Good theories, all!

Culte Ventosus

October 12th, 2004, 1:10 am

In Harry's first potions class, Snape said he could teach the students to "stopper death"...
In the cemetery scene of OOTP, Voldemort said his death eaters knew the steps he took to move toward immortality.
Since we are to wonder what steps Voldemort took toward immortality, I keep coming back to this ...Snape knows! Voldemort would have used his talents as potionmaker, and Snape would have understood far more than most of the deatheaters...