Is Gothic considered a religion?

[Maxi Malfoy]

:devil: I get all the time in school that I am being gothic just because it is a fashion statement! But it is not for me, I wear black and worship the spirts because of my beliefs!
:devil: I ask this question because I wanted to know if you think it is conder kind of a relion or not? I would like to know your views on this! Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil:

[Sherlock Holmes]

"Goth" doesn't seem to be a religion, per se, but rather a loose, mostly-undefinable subculture.

Goth history:


The first use of the term Goth in its present meaning was on a British Broadcasting Commission (BBC) TV program. Anthony H. Wilson, manager of Joy Division described the band as Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. The name stuck.
Their use of black clothing was originally "something of a backlash to the colorful disco music of the seventies." It also stuck.
The movement first became established in the Batcave, a nightclub in London, England, in the early 1980's.


Goth and religion:

Many Goths reflect popular culture and are probably nominal or devout Christians. Atheism, Agnosticism, the New Age, Gnosticism, Shamanism, Wicca, other Neopagan traditions, and other minority faith groups are represented more frequently than in the general population.

Goths often wear Christian crosses or Christian crucifixes, which many regard as a pre-Christian religious symbol. Others wear New Age/ancient Egyptian Ankh symbols. Some do this as expression of their religious beliefs, some for satire, and others because they like their appearance.

Religion is frequently discussed on the Goth newsgroups. Many songs, band names and album titles have Christian themes.
(from religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm))

I think this sentence from the webpage is probably the best statement to keep in mind regarding Goth: "It is basically indefinable, because "Goth" means different things to each follower. "

[Maxi Malfoy]

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=360440#post360440))
"Goth" doesn't seem to be a religion, per se, but rather a loose, mostly-undefinable subculture.

Goth history:


The first use of the term Goth in its present meaning was on a British Broadcasting Commission (BBC) TV program. Anthony H. Wilson, manager of Joy Division described the band as Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. The name stuck.
Their use of black clothing was originally "something of a backlash to the colorful disco music of the seventies." It also stuck.
The movement first became established in the Batcave, a nightclub in London, England, in the early 1980's.


Goth and religion:

Many Goths reflect popular culture and are probably nominal or devout Christians. Atheism, Agnosticism, the New Age, Gnosticism, Shamanism, Wicca, other Neopagan traditions, and other minority faith groups are represented more frequently than in the general population.

Goths often wear Christian crosses or Christian crucifixes, which many regard as a pre-Christian religious symbol. Others wear New Age/ancient Egyptian Ankh symbols. Some do this as expression of their religious beliefs, some for satire, and others because they like their appearance.

Religion is frequently discussed on the Goth newsgroups. Many songs, band names and album titles have Christian themes.
(from religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm))

I think this sentence from the webpage is probably the best statement to keep in mind regarding Goth: "It is basically indefinable, because "Goth" means different things to each follower. "


:devil: I shall go to that site and see for myself, I reather like the history and goth together. I thought you would say like everyone else says when I tell them I am goth that it is a Fashion Statement!

And then I would say no I pratise being goth and that is also what the kids at school call me which I do not mind that much.

Yet as a goth I do not belive in this christian themes thing I am more santic then christian ask my sister if you do not belive me she will tell you that.

But thanks never the less for the information and asking my question. Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!

Please do not use excessive smilies!

[Midnightsfire]

Originally posted by Maxi Malfoy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=363358#post363358))
:devil: Yet as a goth I do not belive in this christian themes thing I am more santic then christian ask my sister if you do not belive me she will tell you that.


Y'know, when someone describes themselves as "satanic" I have to wonder what they mean. From your usage, I'm assuming you don't mean "evil."

[Maxi Malfoy]

Originally posted by Midnightsfire (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=363378#post363378))
Y'know, when someone describes themselves as "satanic" I have to wonder what they mean. From your usage, I'm assuming you don't mean "evil."


:devil: Well I am not saying that I am really evil just because I am a satanic I just pratice being one more then anything else but sometimes however I am called evil.

:devil: Does that answear your question? Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil: :devil: :devil:

[Midnightsfire]

Originally posted by Maxi Malfoy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=363512#post363512))
Well I am not saying that I am really evil just because I am a satanic I just pratice being one more then anything else but sometimes however I am called evil.


*shrugs* I've had the dubious pleasure of meeting genuinely evil people in a rather sociable setting. Lucky me...(Lucky that it was in a sociable setting and not a dark alley or warehouse with his "associates.")

:wow:

[dorcasderr]

MM, I would only call you satanic if you truly worshipped Satan. Following a lifestyle is one thing, worship is another. It is true that our lifestye should reflect that which, or HE Whom we worship, but many go along, living in a particular way, following a style because it appears to be cool, without focussing their spirits to worship anyone or anything. Where do you fall? Do you know him whose adjective you have adopted?

[Midnightsfire]

I would call him truly satanic if his behaviour reflected such. Enjoying torture and inflicting pain on others and anything else that would constitute severe anti-social behaviour. Merely "worshipping" some other deity wouldn't fit the bill.

[Crystal]

I know a lot of people who define themselves as "Goths" who are actually practicing Wiccans, most wear the pentangle (is that the word?) and a christian cross as a religous or devotional thing.
I'm not sure "Gothic" is a religion so much as a lifestyle since it involves no definable religous ritual or form of worship.

[daniel4hp]

Originally posted by Midnightsfire (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=367974#post367974))
I would call him truly satanic if his behaviour reflected such. Enjoying torture and inflicting pain on others and anything else that would constitute severe anti-social behaviour. Merely "worshipping" some other deity wouldn't fit the bill.

If the deity she claimed to worship was Satan, I think that would be enough to qualify the title "Satanist." But other than that, generally speaking, I wouldn't define her as such...

[Maxi Malfoy]

As for your questions I am going to say yes to beliving and worshiping the devil I do indeed pratise being a goth not only by dressing like one but pratising it as well.

Imschool I am a outcast and dress all black and have the power on my face as well I stay away from people excert some friends I have who is in my sisters and mys club called the Deatheaters.

In that club we contect the devil talk to the spirts and have some secret meetings my friends are also goth like me. I hope that answeared your questions.

Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!

Please do not use excessive smilies!

[DocHollidaywe]

Well to my knowledge (and it may be wrong) Gothic was 1st used as a type of Architecture in medieval times. It used pointed arches, rose windows, flying buttresses etc... But all of the architecture was for the Roman Catholic usage. So did Gothic orginally start out as a Catholic thing?

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Merriam-Webster says that Goth originally came from the Germanic tribes who overthrew the Roman Empire and later adopted Christianity. I'd guess they're the ones who developed the style.

[Sherlock Holmes]

"Gothic" has quite a few meanings, not all of which are actually associated. The original Visigoths were one of the "uncivilized" tribes that invaded the Roman world. So their name came to be associated with barbarians. Also, the word refers to a dark, gloomy, eerie myster/horror literary genre.

According religioustolerance.com (http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm) (reposting part of my original post):


The first use of the term Goth in its present meaning was on a British Broadcasting Commission (BBC) TV program. Anthony H. Wilson, manager of Joy Division described the band as Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. The name stuck.
Their use of black clothing was originally "something of a backlash to the colorful disco music of the seventies." It also stuck.
The movement first became established in the Batcave, a nightclub in London, England, in the early 1980's.

[Jessicatwin]

well, all i have to say is that i went through a stage of wearing all black and having the pale face and freaking people out. it wasnt a religion as it was just a fad ao stage i went through.truthfully i liked freaking people out it was fun watching people stare. ooooooooooohhh man my dog just farted and left the room gosh, it smells like rotten eggs!! i got to go ewwww!

[Snowangel]

I don't think there's any such thing as "practising Goth". It isn't a religion as such. People who call themselves Goths may have all kinds of different religions. They are not following one religion just because they all identify as Goth.

By the way, the word "Satanist" is used in many different ways. There is an actual Church of Satan, for instance. They do not actually worship the devil. They just use the Satan as symbolic of certain beliefs and philosophies. Other people who identify as Satanists may actually worship the devil, but I'm pretty sure that these people are rare and that they do not form one coherent religion.

[HufflepuffBertie]

The thing I dont understand about Satanism, is that if you are accepting that Satan exists in the Judeo-Christina concept of Satan, surely you are accepting that Christianity is true at the same time?

[daniel4hp]

Yes, if someone actually did decide to worship the Satan of Christianity, then they would probably also be accepting that God existed. However, they wouldn't have to accept that religion, or believe that Chrisitianity was totally correct. They'd be acknowleging the existance of Satan, and probably God, but as for the other stuff, how much they accepted would, I suppose, depend on the individual. I suppose (but don't know) that the basic idea behind their religious beliefs would be that what the Christian God said (ie that you would have to put your faith in him to be saved, or other religious stuff like that) was basically a lie to keep people away from His rival, Satan. But again, exactly what someone who worshiped Satan believed would probably depend on the person.

[Midnightsfire]

*agrees with Daniel* :wow:

You can't have one without the other.

*looks around* Wha?

*hears a loud thud*

[Snowangel]

I don't actually think there are many people who literally worship Satan. As I mentioned, those who are members of insitutions like the Church of Satan really just use Satan as symbolic. Such Satanism is really a version of extreme individualism, not an acknowledgement that Satan actually exists. The Church of Satan is a proponent of certain ideas that directly oppose Christianity, which is probably why it is named after Satan. For instance, the members of this church believe in indulgence rather than abstinence. They also believe in not turning the other cheek, etc.

[Nickles]

Here's my $0.02....

No, Goth isn't a religion. To be acurate, it's a period in western history which had a distict style. Objects, arcitecture, and people who borrow from this style (although rarely are things in TRUE gothic style nowadays, as it's taken on somewhat a life of it's own in recent times) are called "goth". It isn't a religion, although people who dress goth often do so because they hold certain common beliefs, such as a fascination with death and a revultion to pop culture.

As for Satanism, it's an official religion, and to be a "Satanist" you MUST worship Satan and all that sort of stuff. It's the same way you can't call yourself a Christian unless you believe in Jesus ("I'm Christian... I believe in the moon goddess and Vishnu"... can't be done). Satanists aren't necissarily evil or want to torture animals and see people in pain (althogh some do... then again, so do/did a lot of Christians! Inquisition, anyone?), they believe in reveling in the pleasures of the flesh... basically, the ideals that the Devil touts in the Christian bible.

If you just like doing whatever pleases you, be that having sex all the time, hurting someone, or whatever, for your own enjoyment without really revering a god-figure (be it Satan or whoever), that means your a hedon. Hedons may enjoy, say, raping people or lighting fires or doing other bad things, but it doesn't mean they worphip Satan or are Satanists... unless, of course, they DO worship Satan.

Anyways, hope my ramblings gave you guys some food for thought.

[Snowangel]

Originally posted by Nickles (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=383492#post383492))
Here's my $0.02....


As for Satanism, it's an official religion, and to be a "Satanist" you MUST worship Satan and all that sort of stuff. It's the same way you can't call yourself a Christian unless you believe in Jesus ("I'm Christian... I believe in the moon goddess and Vishnu"... can't be done). Satanists aren't necissarily evil or want to torture animals and see people in pain (althogh some do... then again, so do/did a lot of Christians! Inquisition, anyone?), they believe in reveling in the pleasures of the flesh... basically, the ideals that the Devil touts in the Christian bible.

If you just like doing whatever pleases you, be that having sex all the time, hurting someone, or whatever, for your own enjoyment without really revering a god-figure (be it Satan or whoever), that means your a hedon. Hedons may enjoy, say, raping people or lighting fires or doing other bad things, but it doesn't mean they worphip Satan or are Satanists... unless, of course, they DO worship Satan.

Anyways, hope my ramblings gave you guys some food for thought.


I actually disagree, as I said in my above posts. People who call themselves Satanists do not HAVE to worship Satan. They do not all literally believe that Satan exists. They just follow certain hedonist practices. But, again, they do not all worship Satan.

[Eruanna]

there are many differnet form sof satanism, there are those who call dabbling in differnet form of pagan religions mixed with blaack magic satanism, there';s gothic satansim (which is basically what christians made up to excuse the witch burning), there is church of satan type satanism (which is what i practice, it has many different statments two of which are:
'indulgance not abstinance' and the best one of all which is somethintg along the lines of 'we believe that christianity is the best friend we ever had cos they kept us in business all these years'!!

anyways...this form of satanism has nothing at all to do with the satan of christianity because if it did then we;d all have to believe in god...which isnt about to happen anytime soon. we don't in fact worship anything...its more kinda like buddhism cept with different morals..)

[TMRiddle_Peeler]

Near as I can tell, Satanism, or at least the "Official" Church of Satan founded by Anton LeVay, treats Satan and devil worship as symbolic. That is, because for so long Satanism was like the absolute worst crime, it's a way of freeing the ego and consciousness from the constraints of regular society's moral concerns and moving to an entirely self-fulfilling worldview. Some people might require the Satanist practices, whatever those are (I think most stories of satanic ritual are just urban legend), some people might just need the structure of the subculture, others might not need Satanism at all. Whatever it is, it turns out it's just another belief system after you strip away the images society has planted around it.

[Bee]

Isn't "goth" a label?

[Tarot Dude]

Yeh know...i'm kind of tired of people rushign to classify themselves as something or someone. I think that you believe in what you truly believe in adn shouldnt turn to someone else or somethign else unless you serioulsy feel like you need to. Just do what you think is right. And yes, "gothic" is a label for not a religion, but more of a lifestyle that basically goes to clothing and music and not much else. Yes, there are very few people who go to a church of satan because there just arent a lot of them. If you respect other people and their beliefs, those people will respect you and whatever you believe in. Just because someone hates you doesnt mean its oging to stay that way, and it doesnt mean its their decision. The reason why most people hate someone else is a direct actoin that you have odne to someone else. So just roll around in the sun and stay peaceful adn stop jumping on each others backs. Be peaceful.

[Ankou]

ok
goth=fashion baby! It's fashion, it's music it's community, it's fun!

satanism= worshipping yourself over all.
luciferianism=worrshipping the devil.

have a nice day!
~Devi

[opuskitty4ever]

I think Goth is more of a lifestyle than a religion.

[Adalbert Waffling]

Gothism is so misunderstood at my school. One of my friends gets ridiculed at school because he's wiccan, which has nothing to do with gothism. Here he is, wearing a bright yellow shirt, and people are saying he's a goth!? I believe gothism is sort of a deeper understanding of death. Unlike the "goths" just doing it to be unique, I doubt that true goths really hate life, but have a deep respect for death.

[Silver_Vixen]

anything can be made into a religion if you try hard enough...even statements of fashion.

My mother, a devout lutheran, taught me this. Even myself (as an agnostic) have a religion.

I say this becuase it all depends how you veiw the definition of religion. The one i was taught runs thus: Religion is a set of beliefs or values you believe to be true.

anyway, yes, Gothic COULD be a religion, but if to you it is only a fashion, or somethig you dress, no, it is not.

However, worshiping the spirits, as you stated, implied that you DO see it as a religion--therefore to you it IS a religion...understand?

[FloydTheBarber]

Goth is just a style. Some kids in my school dress in the Goth outfit, but none of them worship the devil, do rituals or anything. Most of them listen to Marilyn Manson....who is just too dark and bizzare for me to handle. Some of them listen to other bands like NIN, Black Sabbath, and NIRVANA. So I can talk to them about music. They are ok.

[Marie Lexis]

Being Gothic is not a religion. And just because you wear black all the time doesn't mean you are gothic. Well it does but it does not mean that you worship the devil. My friend wears red and black all the time, because she likes the jewelry that matches the clothes. She also wears colorful clothes sometimes. And a guy friend of mine wears black constantly too and so does his girlfriend(hate her). But that doesn't mean they worship satan. In my Am. Gov't class our teacher made that accusation towards him when we were having a debate over whether Religion should be aloud in schools. And that made me really mad because I knew him and he's a Christian.

[Preacher]

I was a goth as a teenager for many years and having been part of those circles most of my life I can safely say that to my knowledge most goths are living a lifestyle and many are practicing Wiccans and some even Lunarians...
Personally I am a disbeliever in all religions :)

[TheBloodyXXX]

I agree with most of you. Goth is not a religion but a lifestyle.

I have a tendency to dress in mostly black all the time but I don't consider myself goth. I do love goth music though: siouxsie and the banshees, joy division, switchblade symphony, sister of mercy, type o negative, rasputina, depeche mode, bauhaus. . . . . .

[Deliah]

Gothic has nothing to do with religion - but gothics get confused with satanists quite often because of the way they dress. The odd thing is, that most people that are into satanism do not dress black but look rather "normal" (talking about real satanism here, which includes rape, child abuse and all sorts of other perversions)

I do know people in the goth scene that are into religion ( wicca, christian, buddhism ... ) but I also know people that are atheists or agnostics - I do not see a connection between the way someone dresses and the music someone likes and the things he (or she) belives in.

[Freak of nature]

Merriam-Webster says that Goth originally came from the Germanic tribes who overthrew the Roman Empire and later adopted Christianity. I'd guess they're the ones who developed the style. What? The goth of this day has nothing to do with the germanic tribe who helped to overthrow the Roman Empire. I am sorry but I just got angry...a little.

[Freak of nature]

It's a way of living.Of what you are.

[Knut4UrThghts]

:devil: Well I am not saying that I am really evil just because I am a satanic I just pratice being one more then anything else but sometimes however I am called evil.

:devil: Does that answear your question? Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil: :devil: :devil:


If you are a practicing Satanist, then clearly you acknowledge the existence of the Christian God. Satan was His Angel, who was also known as Lucifer, that was cast out of Heaven. So, if you embrace Satanism, you are merely practicing the "dark side" of Christianity. If this is your path, you've the free will to walk it, however, I would remind you that Satan is also known as "The Great Deceiver" and the Bible (that you must acknowledge should you choose to worship Satan) says that the only way to ever lasting life is through Christ.

You strike me as being very young and still learning and experimenting and growing which is a good thing. However, I feel compelled to warn you (as I DO believe in Satan and in his Dark Works) that your path is perilous and places your eternal soul at risk.

Frankly, Satan neither impresses me nor instills fear in me. As I once said to a friend about the Devil, "CENSORED you, CENSORED. Make a tree. I am NOT impressed." His is merely the power to destroy, to disrupt, to confuse, and to frighten. He is a merely a tool -- not the Hand that wields it.

[Firebolt_2007]

Gothics are attention seaking, pity seaking, "individuals". They think they are "being themselves" by dressing the way they do and listening to the kind of music they listen to. Once apon a time "gothic" was consisdered differant. Nowadays all it is is conforming to non-conformism. They say they aren't conformists, but they are. The few gothics that actually do have issues and aren't just using gothic as a poser look need to deal with their lives and problems instead of whining about them through their music and clothing styles. They take every opportunity to push their inseccurities and problems on the rest of the world because they are really to weak to deal with them. They blame all the problems in their lives on everyone but themselves.
Gothic is not a religion. True gothics use it as a pathetic and desperate attempt to get pity.

My opinion only

[crucifix]

If Jedi actually considered a religion, let the goths have it too.

Ignorance is tolerable...closemindedness and stupidity are not.

[Kirsten]

If Goth is a religion, then so is teddyboy, mod, rocker, hiphop, gangsta, and all the rest.

[Lirio]

Goth isn't a religion, it's just a type of art style in the 1800's.

The term 'Goth' was inspired by those paintings, and if you've never seen one, they're very dark and cryptic, consisting mostly of red and black colours. When people say 'Goth' they are misinterpreting the meaning. As far as I know, the way its used now it to describe someone who sees the beauty in everything. Wearing black, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with that.

The Wiccan religion is often misinterpreted as Gothic or Satanic, when in fact, it has nothing to do with either of them. Wicca is a religion (it's acctually the oldest religion, pre-dating Christianity by centuries), where Magick is practised. Wiccans are known as Witches (male and female), and the reason everyone calls them Satanists is because they worship a hunting god and goddess, who conviently enough have horns.

The sign of the Wiccan is a pentacal (sp?) and I can assure you they do not all wear black. I happen to know 5 people who are Wiccan - two I'll admit are a little dark, but they're sisters and that just who they are, and one of them is pink and preppy.

[LuvHP_001]

I'm no wise Dumbledore or G-d, but i believe that Gothic is a style (not clothes-wise) and Goths are Satanists.

[DragonBlk17]

I remember that I heard Goth used to be a religion. I don't know if it is anymore but I think Goths are cool even though I'm not one. They might seem like scary people but they're not. They're regular people.

[Jenn_]

Goths or Gothics are not a religion. It's a style with maybe general shared beliefs. They dont have a book they follow, they dont have a deity they worship and they dont go to Goths places of worship.

In the beginning Goths were mostly Christian, but through assimilation through out the masses and quote unquote 'misguided youths' it started to incorportate Wicca, new age beliefs and various pagan beliefs.

Goths are from Gothic whis is actually a style of dress, art and architecture stared in the 1800s. For example, Jane Eyre is a Gothic novel.

Most people lump anyone who is in the 'counter culture' of our generation as Goth, when in reality just because they wear black it doesnt make them neccessarily gothic.

Since Columbine, many gothics have had to deal with a bad rap, mostly due to the black trenchcoats they wore.

The term Goth has been misconstrued much like the word Hippie has been over time. If you wear a peasant blouse, like braids and like folk music you are a Hippie, when in reality Hippies werent exactly known for their hygenie and clothing choices.

Goth isnt a religion, just another misunderstood fad. And yes....Goth is just another fad.

[accioinsight7]

Playing off of what Jenn_ said, it is mostly true. Goths were originally Western European nomadic peoples (think Roman Empire). They were originally pagan, as were most of the tribal nomads of the period. Then, many were converted after Christianity became the primary religion of the Roman Empire. Gothic had come to refer to a style of architecture, and this style was used primarily in Church-building...So, Gothic itself is not a religion. If you worship the devil, you are a Satanist by religion, and Gothic by social stereotyping. If you worship spirits, that doesn't make you Gothic. The lifestyle is indeed Gothic, as many have said.

[Holly_Black16]

Danielhp14 I think satanists recognize God/Christ but reject him and worhip satan, which I totaly don't understand, If you acknowledge Christ why would one worhip satan, Christ beat him after being crucified then rose again, conquring death. could someon explain that to me.

Knut4urthoughts - Maxi Malfoy - The Bible says somewhere, I'm sure exactly where but

"Satan stalks lion, seeking who he may devour"
"Satan comes to steel, kill and destroy"

[Kobila]

Danielhp14 I think satanists recognize God/Christ but reject him and worhip satan, which I totaly don't understand, If you acknowledge Christ why would one worhip satan, Christ beat him after being crucified then rose again, conquring death. could someon explain that to me.

Knut4urthoughts - Maxi Malfoy - The Bible says somewhere, I'm sure exactly where but

"Satan stalks lion, seeking who he may devour"
"Satan comes to steel, kill and destroy"

Well Im sure they dont understand why you worship God, its a matter of opiniun.

And concerning the thread topic, Ni it isnt a religion its a manner of style or music. Who would be the God Of gothic?

[crookshanks1177]

Who would be the God Of gothic?

:elaugh: Sorry I just found that funny. Yes I always just considered goth a fashion sense too.

[Romy]

You know I´m actually learning a bit of gothic in uni right know. Gothic was an old German language that I have to learn a bit about as I´m studying German. Gothic was also a style of architecture recognisable by high, pointy archs and such. And, as far as I know, the Goths were either a Germanic or Gaul tribe, I´m not quite sure at the moment, would have to look it up. As for the today-Goths, in my opinion they are only trying to be different. They might as well be part of another non-conformatist movement. Gothic essentially isn´t a religion as it doesn´t have any specific set of beliefs.
"is reminded of the Jedii-religion-debate" :evil:
And I do not believe people who so freely claim to be evil to actually be evil. That´s a paradox.

[Asrana]

And I do not believe people who so freely claim to be evil to actually be evil. That´s a paradox.\


I agree with you. If a person does something, as a relgion they wouldn't considerit evil right, but if they call themselves evil then their not really evil just confused, that why I think that the person who started(maxi-malfoy?) this thread is just a confused and misguided teenager.

:devil: Does that answear your question? Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil: :devil: :devil:

Oh please, would any truly evil person call themselv evil?

[Midnightsfire]

Danielhp14 I think satanists recognize God/Christ but reject him and worhip satan, which I totaly don't understand, If you acknowledge Christ why would one worhip satan, Christ beat him after being crucified then rose again, conquring death. could someon explain that to me.
Easy enough. It's take two to tango. For the idea of Satan to exist, the ideas of God and Christ have to exist. (At least by most Christian dogma.)

Knut4urthoughts - Maxi Malfoy - The Bible says somewhere, I'm sure exactly where but

"Satan stalks lion, seeking who he may devour"
"Satan comes to steel, kill and destroy"
Umm...No. Not in the Bible.

[Ava]

I view "Goth" or being gothic as a 'mini-culture' and a lifestyle. It doesn't necessarily point to a specific religion or set of beliefs/rules. I have a "goth" friend and he's technically a Christian,he doesn't really worship the darkness or things like that.It's just his preferred style. While this other goth person in my school is an atheist and listens to Marilyn Manson, wears a zillion studs, injects too much swear words in a sentence, etc.
This group of people doesn't have a place of worship or even a specific entity they view as a god. So I guess it's not a religion.

[Rosie Cotton]

The only Goth I ever knew, was a girl named Charlotte. I asked what Gothic was, and she told me that it is mostly just a fashion-sense and a darker personality and that she doesn't practice "magic", or "witch-craft," or "worship devils," or "spirits."

You know I´m actually learning a bit of gothic in uni right know. Gothic was an old German language that I have to learn a bit about as I´m studying German. Gothic was also a style of architecture recognisable by high, pointy archs and such. And, as far as I know, the Goths were either a Germanic or Gaul tribe, I´m not quite sure at the moment, would have to look it up. As for the today-Goths, in my opinion they are only trying to be different. They might as well be part of another non-conformatist movement. Gothic essentially isn´t a religion as it doesn´t have any specific set of beliefs.
"is reminded of the Jedii-religion-debate" :evil:
And I do not believe people who so freely claim to be evil to actually be evil. That´s a paradox.
The Goths were a Germanic people. And yes, Gothic was a predecessor language of Norse languages, German and English. Suprise, suprise.

[zippythesqurl2]

Well to my knowledge (and it may be wrong) Gothic was 1st used as a type of Architecture in medieval times. It used pointed arches, rose windows, flying buttresses etc... But all of the architecture was for the Roman Catholic usage. So did Gothic orginally start out as a Catholic thing?


I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is rehashed info. "Goth" extends mainly from the middle ages, referring to architecture. It's a generally dark period in architecture and is a reflection of the times. Flying buttresses and gargoyels make their appearances in this time. However, before that Goths existed. http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html
And these were an actual race of people.

Now, for the op. You, my friend, are not Goth. Not that that's a bad thing, but you're not.

Being Goth is about appreciation for things that are beautiful. Architecture, the feeling of fabric. Goths, in the truest form, are mostly about acceptance and what not. Not this tenny fad stuff about wanting to be nonconformist but actually not being brave enough not to be.