Moaning Myrtle's role

[newpotterfan03]

Hey all!!!

New to the website and been a fan of the books for only a short time. I was wondering what you guys thought of Myrtle's significance. She seems to be the only ghost that really interacts with Harry and the gang. Could he have had an ulterior motive for killing her, besides her being muggle-born (Didn't Malfoy say a "mudblood" had died the first time???) Anxious to hear what you guys think!!!!


:clappy: I SO CANNOT WAIT till Saturday!!!!!!


---About MM in Slytherin---
I TAKE IT ALL BACK. After reading what most of you said I decided to check it out again and lo and behold, J.K.R. is really a genius. The reason that the emblems match is because what distinguished them was the color of the tie, WHICH you can't see because she's a ghost. The emblem has all four houses edged out around a centered "H" for Hogwarts. DARN!!! I thought I had something!!!!

---More interaction---
I understand that there is interaction with OTHER ghosts in the books yes, but with MM there is more. And in the CoS DVD interview with J.K.R., she talks about how she advised Steve Kloves to keep certain things in the movie because they would become important later. This is the reason I asked about other people's theories about her.

Thanks all for your posts!!!

[Cat]

It's not stated in the books that she was either a Slytherin or a Muggleborn. I think she was killed just because she was in the wrong bathroom at the wrong time.

I hope she features more. She so obviously fancies Harry :D

EDIT: oh, wait, did Tom Riddle say she was a Muggleborn? I can't remember.

[dorcasderr]

Also, at least in COS, Harry interacts pretty much with Nearly Headless Nick (sorry-Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington) and even attended his death-day party on Halloween. Moaning Myrtle has been important in providing information, wittingly or unwittingly in both COS and GOF.

[Ecthelion]

:welcome: to the forums newpotterfan03!.

As to Mrtyles significants....I don't know. She played a huge role (comparably) in the Chamber of Secrets. You are right though, Voldemort, though he was young, then, would have probably not chosen just any kind of person to kill. As to why, here's what I think.

Moaning Myrtle was probably alone most of her time and nobody payed attention to her. This is the perfect person to kill without getting noticed. At that point, Riddle having discovered the Basilisk and its possibilities, would have wanted a test subject...Being the observant person he is, he would have undoubtably noticed Mertle's strange behavior and techniques of getting away from her teaser's....the bathroom. The very bathroom where the chamber of secrets entrance lies. That is just perfect. Convienant, fast traveling destination (practically the front door really.), convienant test subject who is not surrounded by people who might see Riddle or the Basilisk, and all together, a convienant place and time to commit a murder.

That's my theory, nothing to strong, but just pure coincidence that it happened. And mrtyle, unfortunately, was the one who was involved.

[FirefightingMuggle]

I remember Malfoy saying that the last time that the Chamber of Secrets was opened, a Mudblood died, which tells us that Myrtle was half and half. I think though, that since Myrtle has a thang for Harry, that she will be there to help him, if he ever finds himself needing help in the bathrooms again.

[Narvi]

Of course, as a plot device Moaning Myrtle serves as a perfect vehicle for moving the story along. Maybe she was just invented for that very purpose. ;-) But having said that, Myrtle rocks! I think she could easily make ties with the Potter-trio if she'd give it a chance.

[Lestrange]

Actually, FirefightingMuggle, it tells us that Myrtle could be half and half, or of muggle parentage. :smile:

I don't know, though...I think Myrtle being killed was an accident, just her being in the wrong place at the wrong time, basically..... And I'd love to see her again (the overall best ghost..), maybe she can terrorize Hermione if she becomes a prefect. :lol:

[bobtduck90]

I think that Myrtle wasn't targeted specifically ; I think that she was just in the bathroom when the Basilisk came out of the sink (is that how it works?). Is there some rule that the Basilisk only can kill Muggleborns, or is it just targeted at them? Hm.. will have to ponder that...

[rotsiepots]

Just for reference, there's a thread discussing Myrtle's house here (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4543).

Ultimately, I think Myrtle will become more important when JKR chooses to enlighten us about why certain people become ghosts and others do not. We know the most about her death and her character, so I assume that she'll pop up somewhere again.

[jordmundt6]

Could be. Does anybody else notice Harry's uncanny ability to attract women--well, girls his own age? There's Ginny. I think the audio embrace as well as previous hugs and that parting kiss in GoF are enough to put Hermione on the list.

So, the list defintely reads at least:

1. Ginny

2. Hermione

3. Myrtle

More to follow? like maybe Hannah Abbot, who seems quite taken with young Mr. Potter though she's never actually spoken to him? Fleur seems to be warming up quite a bit, but those thank-you kisses are a sign of friendship in many continental cultures (how friends greet and part from one another in France). But the list is still pretty hefty.

About Myrtle--As previously stated, she is/was a Muggle-born. Also, if anyone cares to notice, there's quite a similarity between how she acted in school and how Hermione was acting in her first year before she, Harry, and Ron survived the troll attack together. Just a freakish coincidence?

[Lestrange]

jordmundt, you can add the girls who asked Harry out to the Yule Ball, too. :)

By the way, does anyone have any idea of how old Myrtle could have been when she died? I'm not really that sure if they say it in the books or not....

[jordmundt6]

I didn't add those because I figure most of that is the "He's famous therefore he must be cool" vibe. Notice Parvati Patil is DEFINITELY NOT on that list.

Edit: I don't believe it's specifically stated, but from the description I'd say either first or second year which would make her 11 or 12. 13 at the absolute outside. But I'd suspect she was a First Year. Also Dippet calls her a "little girl" in Riddle's memory and, to me, that suggest First Year.

[black&potter]

I haven't seen anywhere, where it states what house MM was from.....
She isn't the only ghost Harry interacts with. What about NHN???
MM has been more help to Harry than any other tho'.

[jordmundt6]

No, you're right. We don't knw Myrtle's House yet? But does this really matter? She was an innocent victimized by her schoomates and she got to "live" every high-school nerd's revenge dream, make life awful for the prim proper cool kid who always bossed you around and made fun of you. But she's kinda like Hagrid in a way. We don't know what house he was in for sure either unless you count that "Everyone says Hufflepuff is a lot of duffers, but..." as an admission that he was in Hufflepuff. And that's a bit of a stretch, I think.

[dorcasderr]

Hagrid's house has been discussed in these forums, but perhaps it was in an older thread, banished to the Forbidden Forest. The concensus then was that he was in Gryffindor. The conclusion on MM was that you couldn't tell from her ghostly uniform in the movie and there is NO clue in the book, other than her being a mudblood and, therefore, probably not a Slytherin.

[jordmundt6]

That's interesting because the Trivia whizzes have Hagrid pegged as a Hufflepuff. I think they're using the passage from "Diagon Alley" I just mentioned when they do this.

[dorcasderr]

I think I may have read he was in Gryffindor first at Mugglenet. I'm pretty sure of that because it is the only HP site I really went to prior to COS.

[rotsiepots]

Hagrid was a Gryffindor. This is confirmed by JKR:

Question:What house was Hagrid in?
JKR: Hagrid was in Gryffindor, naturally!

Taken from here (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2000/1000-livechat-barnesnoble.html).

[jordmundt6]

Thanks rotsie--that was cool. By the way, I'm suddenly excited to hear more from the real Moody than just his grumbling (which seems, genereally, right on point). Anyway, thanks for the link.

[dumbleedore]

I think that Myrtle will play a larger part. She helped Harry in GoF after all. Maybe the trio will talk to her and it's through her they find out why some people become ghosts?

[Doggy]

Well, Mytrle was in GoF, wasn't she? And this shows, to me at least, that she's more than just a "passing character", designed only for the use of a victim in CoS. I definately think she can become very important in future books.

About her being killed as a "test subject", it doesn't seem probable. It was after she died that everyone started clammering about closing the school, and Riddle sought out Hagrid to frame him. She was probably the last victim.

[Quidditch Capt.]

She definitely seems to be useful. I think that she will continue to show up here and there with useful info. When JKR said that the 2nd book holds many keys to the story that the importants of the last time the chamber was opened is immeasurable. In that case MM holds many of the answers about that time in magical history at Hogwarts.

Also, MM is a mudblood. It was already stated that Malfoy said that a mudblood dies last time the chamber was opened, and MM was the only one who passed. That confirms that.

-tim

[jordmundt6]

No, she was the last and worst victim. She wasn't a test subject, she just got a little too much of her dander up for her own good. Yes, Moaning Myrtle was a Muggle-born. Which means that unless she had normal siblings who had kids, we're probably never going to find out who she was or where she was from and her significance will be confined to her activities as a ghost.

[dorcasderr]

Unless...Hermione takes an interest in Myrtle for some reason and does some research on her. She can find out about her name and where she was from and so forth at Hogwarts and can do the Muggle research when she is at home on vacation. If knowing more about MM becomes important you can bet Hermione will be involved in tracking her down.

[hootch]

Myrtle's future plot line will likely help explain how she became a ghost, why others don't become ghosts. JK has expressed that Harry has to examine exactly what is death, and the assorted beings at Hogwarts blur the lines. As do souless bodies. I'm anxious for explanations on this subject.

[pegoheart144]

I've always thought that Moaning Myrtle could be a source of comic relief. Especially if she starts following Harry into other bathrooms like she did when he was solving the clue in the egg.:p

She also has a crush on Harry. If Harry starts dating a girl Myrtle might try to harass her. :( ;)

[jordmundt6]

True. But she seems to generally enjoy ogling male prefects (Diggory must have model looks huh?:) ) I'm not sure that Myrtle would harrass Hermione though, she might see her as a kindred spirit.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by FirefightingMuggle (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=379078#post379078))
I remember Malfoy saying that the last time that the Chamber of Secrets was opened, a Mudblood died, which tells us that Myrtle was half and half. I think though, that since Myrtle has a thang for Harry, that she will be there to help him, if he ever finds himself needing help in the bathrooms again.


She could be like Hermione, from a wholly muggle family. "Mudblood" doesn't seem to tell us much about the ancestry except that the person is not a pureblood.

It's cute how she "admires" Harry, but does anyone else think she kind of looks like him as well? Like maybe if she had lived, she could have been an adoring great great aunt?

And she introduces the idea of a ghost who interacts and helps further the cause of the trio. This could be a foreshadowing of future relationships with those who become ghosts.

Myrtle is a fascintating character. Wonder what her best subjects were in school, (besides self pity). It's possible that in her day, she was the only girl in the school with glasses.

[KellyC&HarryFan]

Well she's deffinatly a muggle-born "But he told me last time a mudblood died!" - Draco. As for her importance I dunno really. Maybe, Ill think of that during OotP (1 day 20 hours, eek! :banghead:) Oh, I DOUBT she was in slytherin because if the hat had Salazars brains in it, why would it let a muggle-born in his house?

[jordmundt6]

It doesn't have Salazar's brains in it. It has Godric's brains in it. And Tom Riddle himself is a half-blood. When you get right down to it, lineage doesn't mean all that much.

[Lestrange]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=379468#post379468))
I didn't add those because I figure most of that is the "He's famous therefore he must be cool" vibe. Notice Parvati Patil is DEFINITELY NOT on that list.


My mistake. :)

Anyway, I'd LOVE to see her harass someone..:evil:...Maybe we'd see the person take the same steps as Olive Hornby did (go to the Ministry..) and we'd get to find out why ghosts are confined (usually) certain places to haunt. ...Oh, and for the sheer fact that I want to see Myrtle annoy somebody. :p

[Rae Weasley]

Originally posted by whizbang121 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=382545#post382545))
She could be like Hermione, from a wholly muggle family. "Mudblood" doesn't seem to tell us much about the ancestry except that the person is not a pureblood.

It's cute how she "admires" Harry, but does anyone else think she kind of looks like him as well? Like maybe if she had lived, she could have been an adoring great great aunt?

And she introduces the idea of a ghost who interacts and helps further the cause of the trio. This could be a foreshadowing of future relationships with those who become ghosts.

Myrtle is a fascintating character. Wonder what her best subjects were in school, (besides self pity). It's possible that in her day, she was the only girl in the school with glasses.


I like where you're going with saying that MM looked a bit like Harry. I never noticed it, but now that you mention it...she did...great point!

[whizbang121]

I can see Myrtle as Harry's doting great great aunt. In happier times, she might have been an great aunt of James' whose wizard great grandfather had a brother who married a beautiful muggle or even half witch. Needing glasses seems to run on the Potter side.

[jordmundt6]

He folks. This is happening in the mid-1990s. Harry was born in what? 1980? If James was 21 then, that means he would have to have been born in 1960. Yeah, I suppose she could have been James' aunt. But does that mean that James' uncle was a Squib in order for Myrtle to be considered Muggle-born? Interesting theory, but a couple of holes.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=384807#post384807))
He folks. This is happening in the mid-1990s. Harry was born in what? 1980? If James was 21 then, that means he would have to have been born in 1960. Yeah, I suppose she could have been James' aunt. But does that mean that James' uncle was a Squib in order for Myrtle to be considered Muggle-born? Interesting theory, but a couple of holes.


Mostly generational, it seems. Okay, the Potters were born in, I think, 1959. Myrtle died in 1943 at say, 14. So, she was born in +/-1929.
Okay, so James' dad had a brother, (James' uncle) who married a muggle and so Myrtle is James cousin? Does that work?:sigh:

[Sincerity]

I always just saw Myrtle as a source of comic relief...Although I do believe that she will probably play a larger role in later books. She's really the one that probably knows the most about what things were like when the Chamber was opened the first time. She may know more about Tom Riddle, since he went to school at that time. Maybe she's just a source of information.

[dorcasderr]

And because she is willing to talk to the trio...remember the rest of the girls avoid that bathroom because of her, so the trio formed a sort of bond with her when they spent so much time in her bathroom in COS...she may be a GREAT source of information for them...And about other people who lived then too.

[PhoenixUK]

Apparently JKR stopped Warner Bros. from selling a 'Moaning Myrtle Toilet Seat'. lol

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by PhoenixUK (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385924#post385924))
Apparently JKR stopped Warner Bros. from selling a 'Moaning Myrtle Toilet Seat'. lol


That's hilarious! Points for imagination, at least. I bet they would have sold like hot cakes.

[Imperio! (Crucio!)]

In book 2 murtyle tells harry and ron how she died and she showed then where she saw the eyes "right over there by that sink" so harry looked over at the sink and he found the enterance to the chamber of secrets.

what i want to know is why didnt the teachers ask her how she died and what happened before she died, because then the would have found the enterance to the chamber?

[turbotriple_power]

Well, i suppose it's because they thought that it was Hagrid.
Or maybe the idea never really came up to them?
But it was kind of stupid of them not wondering how she died...

[Bee]

Well, if they'd asked, then Book 2 needn't have been written :D. Sometimes, you just have to let JKR use some artistic license. It makes for a much more interesting book.

[Woo]

I'm not sure on how becoming a ghost works (I dont think anybody but JK does!), but perhaps becoming a ghost isnt instant. It could take a few days, weeks, months, maybe even years. So, by the time Murtyle came back, they could have already convicted hagrid and his pet, and closed the case. They would have seen no need to question murtyle anymore.


That or perhaps murtyle was so distrought for a while she wouldnt say anything to anyone for a while. Her additude in CoS could deffinately support that.

[Hammi]

They wouldn't have been able to open the chamber any way, all they would find is a carved snake

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I don't think that it takes time to become a ghost, I think myrtle mentioned that she right away started haunting Olive Hornby (was that her name?)

About how you become a ghost, Nick wasn't very clear, but it seems that all you have to do is choose to not move on, and you become a ghost when you die

About the chamber, don't you think a never-working tap with a snake carved on it would be kind of suspicious? Did no one ever really find it?

[schwarzendrache]

I suppose no one in Hogwarts, save Tom Riddle & Harry Potter, could speak parseltongue, so naturally they just figured it was a decoration Salazar left behind.

[FreyaCrescent]

They didn't really know much about the Chamber - like how it could be opened or the nature of the monster inside. I don't think there was another Parselmouth after Slytherin until Riddle.

Plus nobody ever went in that bathroom after Moaning Myrtle's death, so they wouldn't have really found it then.

[shanobyl]

woo: i think the process of becoming a ghost is instantaneous. i remember myrtle saying that she was suddenly "floating" or something like that.

[FreyaCrescent]

Yes, she does. She says: "My body sort of seized up, and then I was floating away..."..."And then I came back again. I was determined to haunt Olive Hornby, you see."

Doesn't give much detail, it might be instantaneous, or just take a few minutes or so. I don't think you would have to wait a long time.

[cleansweep11]

Hi............I was thinking about this the other day........questions like will myrtle play a more important role,will she give us anymore information,Will we ever meet olive hornby(is she even alive,if she isn't is she a ghost?),How old was myrtle when she died(that ones been bugging me...)I made a thread about this but it was closed and I was directed here....So what d'you think?

[Jill]

It was stated in CoS that Moaning Myrtle did die buy looking at the Ballakisic eyes directly. So the wizarding world believe she is dead. I also think that she may have been around 13 years of age, similar to that of Harry, Hermione and Ron in CoS. What I would like to know, is whether her ghostly figure was petrified on the night she was killed by the Ballakisic, similar to what happeded to nearly headless nick?

[London_luv89]

All I have to say is :welcome:

[cleansweep11]

Her ghost was petrified because she wasn't petrified. She died. And then she just moved on(well in myrtles case she didn't but you know what i mean....)

On her age...I always thought she was similar to Harry ron and hermione in CoS but then I relised that in GoF when she talks to harry i consider her the same age as him. I then relised that if they met up with her in the 7th book or 6th I would take her to be that age. All of this is impossible since ghosts don't age(or she'd be in her 60's now...) So in that case how old is she?????(I know jill you took a shot at it already...) personally think she's either 13 or 14.......

[Sinistra]

Why couldn't Myrtle be a deceased relative of Lily? A deceased Great Aunt or something? Mudblood can refer to people with one muggle parent or people who are muggleborn, like Lily was.

Myrtle seems older than 13, maybe 16 or so, but that's just my take on it.

We saw Myrtle again in GoF, and she helped Harry twice, in the Prefect's Bathroom and also under the lake.

Old schools have lots of things that don't work or are just tolerated because it's not important. Look at the broken pane in the window, that the spiders escaped through in the CoS movie. Hogwarts is 1000+ years old. Granted the plumbing was put in later, but one broken sink isn't enough to remodel a whole bathroom for. And she snake was small and not visible to a casual look. Sometimes it's easier to ignore problems (oh that sink never works) and fix what is fixable.

We will probably see Myrtle again before the series ends, at least it would be nice. Maybe she will even be able to move on.

[cleansweep11]

Um....If myrtle was related to lily that would be just so very sick and wrong because at the end of CoS she was fancying him.............so very very wrong.....*shivers*

[jordmundt6]

And during GoF. It's hypothetically possible she could be a distant relative of Lily's, but let's remember that she was a Muggleborn, shall we so she could be related to just about anyone or absolutely no one.

And when people die from the glare, one of the symptoms is body petrification. And to answer Jill's question--No. She wasn't petrified that night. She died and she hadn't become a ghost yet. By the time she made her decision to stay behind, he and the basilisk had gone on their way. As for the night of Riddle's historic reemergence through Ginny--Myrtle was hiding in the U-bend so she didn't see the snake that night.

She does help Harry often. She fancies him a bit and he has always treated her better than anyone else she's come in contact with. Perhaps she is upwards of sixteen, she certainly does enjoy ogling the Prefect boys, doesn't she?:rolleyes:

[cleansweep11]

haha...............yep she does......I bet she's either 14,15 or possibley 16 but I think thats stretching it.....I still don't see how she could be related to Lily....

[pegoheart144]

And during GoF. It's hypothetically possible she could be a distant relative of Lily's, but let's remember that she was a Muggleborn, shall we so she could be related to just about anyone or absolutely no one.

And when people die from the glare, one of the symptoms is body petrification. And to answer Jill's question--No. She wasn't petrified that night. She died and she hadn't become a ghost yet. By the time she made her decision to stay behind, he and the basilisk had gone on their way. As for the night of Riddle's historic reemergence through Ginny--Myrtle was hiding in the U-bend so she didn't see the snake that night.

She does help Harry often. She fancies him a bit and he has always treated her better than anyone else she's come in contact with. Perhaps she is upwards of sixteen, she certainly does enjoy ogling the Prefect boys, doesn't she?:rolleyes:
She also spied on him when he was taking a bath. Since she has a crush on Harry it will be interesting to see if she would pick on any girl that Harry seriously dated.

[cleansweep11]

OH! Good point pegoheart! I never thought of that.......she probley would......

[jordmundt6]

Doubtless she heard the swirling rumors about Harry & Hermione during GoF but it doesn't appear she sought Hermione out, and I think you could have a fair argument about whether she is or was ever aware that Cho Chang exists.

I guess the bath thing was what I was pointing to when I talked about the ogling since she wasn't shy about spying on Cedric either.

[Jill]

She also spied on him when he was taking a bath. Since she has a crush on Harry it will be interesting to see if she would pick on any girl that Harry seriously dated.

Yes, she does have a huge crush on Harry and I would be very interested to know if she will get jealous but that would mean her venturing out of the bathrooms more. On the other hand she might grow out of her school phase crush on Harry but at the moment both Harry and Moaning Myrtle do suit each other as they have the same temperament. So perhaps Moaning Myrtle is 15 and not 13, like I stated earlier on in this thread.

[GryffindorSeeker]

She also spied on him when he was taking a bath. Since she has a crush on Harry it will be interesting to see if she would pick on any girl that Harry seriously dated.
:elaugh: I wonder if she picked on Cho, and that was one of the reasons she was in tears. Of course, she rarely leaves the bathroom except to go to the Prefect baths... Is Cho a prefect?

[cleansweep11]

I think she is............Yah wasn't cho crying in the bathrooms alot??Well maybe we don't know the real reason she was crying........maybe it wasn't about cedric..........haha......

[Liselle]

ahh I posted this on another thread! but its probably better here!

has anyone noticed that Myrtle seems to be more solid than other ghosts? She is able to move/splash water about, compare this to NHN who can't move anything and had to get Peeves to create a distraction for him?!

I wonder what else is to come from her....

Liselle

[Jill]

Doubtless she heard the swirling rumors about Harry & Hermione during GoF but it doesn't appear she sought Hermione out, and I think you could have a fair argument about whether she is or was ever aware that Cho Chang exists.

I guess the bath thing was what I was pointing to when I talked about the ogling since she wasn't shy about spying on Cedric either.

No that is true as well. I feel sorry for Moaning Myrtle, she is always going to be looking for that perfect man to come along and yet never get the chance to date them. Poor Moany...

I think she might have a go at Voldemort if he came back into Hogwarts, I mean after what he did to her and she knows it was him. I think she might come into her own if Voldemort does brake into Hogwarts and help Harry out at this point but that would be as far as I could go with her character role in future books.

from a little :angel: like jillyweed.

[jordmundt6]

Does she? I'm not sure she even registered it was Tom Riddle before she died. She might have heard, but I don't think Dumbledore ever went to that loo to tell her exactly what happened and she doesn't seem to have stirred herself to go to the Head's office since Dumbledore took over, so she still might not know how or why she died or who killed her. Though I would like to see her have a go at Voldemort. :elaugh:

[cleansweep11]

Yah I'm not sure that Myrtle knows who killed her....they didn't tell her at the end of CoS and harry didn't tell her in GoF..........and we haven't seen her in between that.....................

[Jill]

Yah I'm not sure that Myrtle knows who killed her....they didn't tell her at the end of CoS and harry didn't tell her in GoF..........and we haven't seen her in between that.....................

All Myrtle would have to do though is leave the bathroom to find out who really killed her. She might be able to sence that it was Voldemort because she did see the boy standing there in the bathroom.

ahh I posted this on another thread! but its probably better here!

has anyone noticed that Myrtle seems to be more solid than other ghosts? She is able to move/splash water about, compare this to NHN who can't move anything and had to get Peeves to create a distraction for him?!

I wonder what else is to come from her....

I think that both Peeves and Myrtle appear to be more solid and be able to move things around a lot because they are poltigiests. There deaths where probably horrific and both appear not to be able to handle the acceptance of the deaths very well. So they get a little moody, or should I say a lot moody because they feel that there has been a huge mis-injustice done upon them both and feel someone should do something about it.

That might be why the teachers at Hogwarts put up with them both so much. They know how bad it must have been for them both.

[jordmundt6]

Where does it say Nick can't move anything? It appears that he merely chooses not to move anything.

[cleansweep11]

It doesn't say it.....but since he can go through things I always presumed that if he tried to lift things that they would go right through him.

[jordmundt6]

Peeves can also go through things but he can throw water balloons, unscrew light fixtures, crash cabinets, trap cats in suits of armor. Binns enters through the blackboard every class and reads from his notes every class (and they're solid, you can't have a ghost of a document):lol:.

[cleansweep11]

True.................I dk........I'm not JKR.......:D

[pegoheart144]

Does she? I'm not sure she even registered it was Tom Riddle before she died. She might have heard, but I don't think Dumbledore ever went to that loo to tell her exactly what happened and she doesn't seem to have stirred herself to go to the Head's office since Dumbledore took over, so she still might not know how or why she died or who killed her. Though I would like to see her have a go at Voldemort. :elaugh:Not many people know that Voldemort's real name is Tom Riddle. Dumbledore said as much at the end of Chamber of Secrets.

[jordmundt6]

I know that. What I meant was that she didn't even know that it was Riddle who attacked her. All she heard was a boy's voice. That's it.

[Jill]

I know that. What I meant was that she didn't even know that it was Riddle who attacked her. All she heard was a boy's voice. That's it.

Yes but she might eventually put two and two together as she was at Hogwarts at the same time Tom Riddle was there, thats why she died anyway. She must have seen Tom walk around the school grounds or halls and heard his name at least once.

If Moaning Myrtle does not figure this out herself, Ron, Hermione or Harry might say something infrount of her and at that point the penny may drop. In fact they might even tell Myrtle what and whom killed her. I hope so, I really want to see Myrtle scream and throw things at Voldemort, it would be so funny to see that happen. Voldemort dodging missiles and Harrys spells at the same time while Myrtle is calling him every name under the sun. :lol:

[Weatherby]

I think Voldemort is safe from Myrtle. She's more likely to haunt Narcissa or someone else for insulting her glasses.
Olive Hornby died quite young. I'm sure her early death was connected to being haunted by Myrtle.

[jordmundt6]

We don't know that Olive is actually dead, just that she petitioned the Ministry to exercise some control on Myrtle sometime after the fiasco at her wedding. We didn't hear about Olive's funeral or that Olive had made the petition as a ghost herself, but that the petition was made after Olive got married (and we have no idea who to--this could be important later, but probably not).

[cleansweep11]

Jordmundt6 is right....we don't know if olvie Hornby is dead......she could be alive(and around the age of 60 somthing) or she could possbiley be dead(I bet if she is dead she's a ghost)

[whizbang121]

ahh I posted this on another thread! but its probably better here!

has anyone noticed that Myrtle seems to be more solid than other ghosts? She is able to move/splash water about, compare this to NHN who can't move anything and had to get Peeves to create a distraction for him?!

I wonder what else is to come from her....

Liselle
frgot she could do all that. She moves about freely in the plumbing, too.

[Nerdy Pickle]

The people who were petrified in book 2 because of the basilisk were not killed, because they were looking through some type of lens, mirror or glass. So why would Moaning Myrtle have died? She was wearing glasses at the time of her death, with glass thicker than the matter that makes up a ghost, so logically she would have been petrified, not killed. – Thanks to Victoria
Possible Explanation: If Myrtle was crying when she died, she would most likely have her glasses off. And when she heard a noise she probably wiped the tears off her eyes and then she saw the basilisk. - Thanks to Spargmiester
Fan comment: If simple glasses are adequate protection, then Harry would be in no danger since he wears glasses, and I don't think JKR would have made it that easy. There's adequate mythological precedent for mirrors/reflections preventing "paralyzation by stare" (i.e. Medusa), but none for simple lenses. - Thanks to Bob

I have wondered for a while why she didn't die, but I don't think these explanations explain it, and I don't think that it's a mistake in the book.

The "Possible Explanation" can't explain it, because the ghost form of Myrtle has glasses on, and ghosts look the way they did when they died, so she must have been wearing her glasses when she died.

The "Fan Comment" doesn't do it for me either. Harry would have still been in danger while wearing his glasses, because if he had seen the basilisk with his glasses on, he would have been petrified, so he'd be helpless against the basilisk and Tom if they tried to kill him. And if Colin Creevey's camera's "Simple lense" protected him, why couldn't glasses?

So I don't think it's a mistake in the book, I think it could be important later on.

[aish]

Harry will have girfriend even if he dies....

[Liv4Sirius]

I really don't like Mrytle... even though I was sure she knew something at the beginning of book 2. I don't really like the fact that she's in the rest of them though, so i'm assuming she has more stuff hidden up her sleve. Maybe she'll get stuck a pipe or something a go away...

[peddlerofdeath]

...The "Possible Explanation" can't explain it, because the ghost form of Myrtle has glasses on, and ghosts look the way they did when they died, so she must have been wearing her glasses when she died...


I dont think that is true.

Pearly white and semi-transparent, Nick was dressed tonight in his usual doublet, but with a particularly large ruff, which served the dual purpose of looking extra-festive, and insuring that his head didn't wobble too much on his partially severed neck.

That description implies that Nick was wearing something different then he usually does for the special occaision. That means that ghosts can wear something that they didn't have on when thay died. Myrtle could have put the glasses on after becoming a ghost.

I also doubt that Nearly-Headless Nick was wearing the doublet he always wears at the time of his death because if you think about his not-quite-successful be-heading you'll see that he was forced to, for all intents and purposes, bleed to death. If Nick was wearing the same doublet he would be blodier than the Baron.

[MagicMuggle]

The people who were petrified in book 2 because of the basilisk were not killed, because they were looking through some type of lens, mirror or glass. So why would Moaning Myrtle have died? She was wearing glasses at the time of her death, with glass thicker than the matter that makes up a ghost, so logically she would have been petrified, not killed. – Thanks to Victoria
Possible Explanation: If Myrtle was crying when she died, she would most likely have her glasses off. And when she heard a noise she probably wiped the tears off her eyes and then she saw the basilisk. - Thanks to Spargmiester

Actually, the reason people were being petrified was because they weren't looking directly at the Basilisk's eyes. Colin looked at the eyes with his camara, Mrs. Norris seen a reflection in the water, Justin Flinch-Flecthy seen it through Nearly Headless Nick, and Hermione saw the reflection through the mirror. With those objects, you aren't looking directly at the eyes. With glasses, they are used to help people see better. Therefore, Moaning Myrtle should be dead. Am I making any sense at all? If not..I'm sorry! :)

[whizbang121]

The people who were petrified saw the basilisk in a reflection, either in a mirror, or water or a petrified ghost. But even if Myrtle was wearing glasses, it probably wouldn't have saved her.

[Snorkack80]

And if Colin Creevey's camera's "Simple lense" protected him, why couldn't glasses?
I don't think Myrtle's glasses made a difference. About Colin: Most cameras these days don't even have a lens that you look through, just clear glass or plastic. My guess is that Colin's camera viewfinder used mirrors, especially if (like most wizard "technology") it was an old-fashioned camera (JKR said it ran on magic):

<o> (this is colins eye looking in the camera
/-/ (these are mirrors inside the camera
= (this is the lens)

OO
(_)SSSSSSSSSSSSS>>> (this is the basilisk)



More about Myrtle: I think her personality seems like a first or second year. Maybe up to fourth, but I doubt it. I do wonder if she knew Hagrid or Tom Riddle at school? Hagrid was a third year and Tom a sixth. I wonder if she's ever talked to Hagrid since she died and he was expelled? Probably not, but that would be an interesting meeting! I wonder if we'll meet anyone else who went to Hogwarts at that time.

I think it's significant that Harry keeps picking up supporters as he goes through his adventures. Even random seemingly odd supporters like Dobby, Myrtle, Grawp, Mrs. Figg, the Creeveys, Luna, etc. can be very useful, as we've already seen. Myrtle and Dobby have already helped him out a lot, and I think they'll continue to be important. I'd love to see a scene where Myrtle, knowing Tom Riddle was her murderer, distracts Voldy or otherwise helps Harry defeat him.

[morgiana]

Myrtle said she was sitting on the toilet crying. People who wear glasses usually take them off when they cry. She would maybe have hooked them on her sweater; they would still have been there when she became a ghost.

or

The people who were only petrefied saw a REFLECTION glasses don't make a reflection.

[hpfan_08]

I think that Myrtle will come in handy she has already help Harry out greatly twice (She helped him located the COS, and help him with the 2nd task.), it wouldn't come as a suprise to me if she did again.

[tgraveline]

Hey all, i was just watching the movie today and it hit me, not sure if you have already suggested this or asked it, but at least i'm not making a new thread, lol. What i want to know is they said that they have searched for it many times, but dumbledore was there when she died, how come he never asked moaning myrtle why she died or what happened when she did, as then he might have figured it out quicker. Any thoughts or has this already been figured out?

tg

[tarachristwen]

probably she will assist harry more in the future?

[Devera]

I like the ideas that Moaning Myrtle could play a role somehow in the future with Voldemort, if she finds he was the same boy that caused her death!

[Snorkack80]

I have also wondered if Dumbledore ever talked to Myrtle. He wasn't the headmaster when she died, but he or one of the other teachers would surely have talked to her ghost. If they did, she might have told them the same thing she told Harry; that she simply heard a boy's voice, looked up, saw big yellow eyes, and died. That might not be enough for even Dumbledore to decipher. Hermione, maybe, but not Dumbledore. ;) Does it rule out Aragog? I don't think he has big yellow eyes, but dying people aren't always completely sane anyway. Maybe they thought she simply didn't remember Aragog actually attacking her.

But would she even tell the teachers? She told Harry, but we know she has a crush on Harry, and he was flattering her besides. She's not exactly friendly to everyone, and if she's in a bad mood she won't help you at all. So maybe whe she died she was so upset and so determined to haunt Olive Hornby that she wouldn't tell anyone anything useful, so they gave up on her.