Knights of Walpurgis an old name for Death Eaters?

[looneylupin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3004594.stm

Okay, in the BBC interview with J.K. Rowling, about 3/4 down the page she mentioned that Death Eaters were once called the Knights of Walpurgis, I wanted to start a thread discussing this...I have researched a bit but found nothing useful so far....but I was hoping someone else might have a clue about this...is there any significance to this name?

All that came up in my research was a playstation game and some other things, I guess Im just lazy, but will someone tell me the importance of this....

thank you

The Looniest of DADA teachers

Looney Lupin

[Cat]

Walpurgis is a European holiday sometime in April. It's Pagan. I only know that in Germany it was once considered to be a night when witches met collectively to sell their souls to the devil. It's basically Hallowe'en.

I prefer 'The Knights of Walpurgis' to 'The Death Eaters'. It sounds flashier.

[looneylupin]

Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385649#post385649))
Walpurgis is a European holiday sometime in April. It's Pagan. I only know that in Germany it was once considered to be a night when witches met collectively to sell their souls to the devil. It's basically Hallowe'en.

I prefer 'The Knights of Walpurgis' to 'The Death Eaters'. It sounds flashier.


Wow...thanks cat...hmm so the death eaters used to call themselves something related to Halloween...is that also the reason for those masks they were...do those masks do something other than conceal identity, is there symbolism involved? And that they sell their souls to the devil interests me as well...could this reveal Voldies future plans, only one ruler, and the Death Eaters will get the axe...very interesting...any more info on this?

thanks

[Cat]

I think Walpurgis would have been celebrated here in England, actually... I don't know why I know more about Walpugis in Germany than Walpurgis in England, being English and all. Maybe it's not English, but my dad says it is. He also says that it is another name for Halloween, and is on the same date and everything. But I don't believe him.

I think masks on Halloween are a bit too modern for that theory. I'd say the 'selling their soul to the devil' is more a euphamism for the Death Eaters meeting collectively and selling out to Voldemort.

[Mini'Grid]

I prefer the current name.

"(evil laughter)we are the knights of Walpugis, join us or die!...whats funny?...what are you laughing at!?...I said:we are the knights of walpogis, join us or die!..STOP laughing!Allright, one last chance tojoin us, the knights of Walpuinsess...er the knights of wal..pooy?..Fred, what is it that we call our selves again...oh to heck with it all AVADA KEDAVARA!"

[Cat]

Mini'Grid, it'd be great for security, having a name that nobody can pronounce...

[looneylupin]

Originally posted by Mini'Grid (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385684#post385684))
I prefer the current name.

"(evil laughter)we are the knights of Walpugis, join us or die!...whats funny?...what are you laughing at!?...I said:we are the knights of walpogis, join us or die!..STOP laughing!Allright, one last chance tojoin us, the knights of Walpuinsess...er the knights of wal..pooy?..Fred, what is it that we call our selves again...oh to heck with it all AVADA KEDAVARA!"


lol I prefer Death Eaters as well, though Knights of Death would have been cool, heh maybe I should start a new thread 'Don't like the name Death Eaters, got a better idea?"
lol

thanks....

[IndyPotter]

I might be imagining this, but I was under the impression that the Potters were killed on Halloween. It could be that I'm just dreaming, but I always thought that.

[looneylupin]

Originally posted by IndyPotter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385689#post385689))
I might be imagining this, but I was under the impression that the Potters were killed on Halloween. It could be that I'm just dreaming, but I always thought that.


wow...too cool...I think I remember this being mentioned somewhere...the connections...but what could this mean...that somehow Voldemort attacked on the day of the dead...im stumped:??:

[Cat]

Originally posted by IndyPotter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385689#post385689))
I might be imagining this, but I was under the impression that the Potters were killed on Halloween. It could be that I'm just dreaming, but I always thought that.


Yeah, they were. But Walpurgis isn't on the same date as Hallowe'en, it's just basically the same kind of holiday. I think...

[Alastor D]

Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385668#post385668))
I think Walpurgis would have been celebrated here in England, actually... I don't know why I know more about Walpugis in Germany than Walpurgis in England, being English and all. Maybe it's not English, but my dad says it is. He also says that it is another name for Halloween, and is on the same date and everything. But I don't believe him.


Walpurgisnacht is the night between April 30. and May 1. No direct connection to Halloween. Similarities there may be, I don't know about that.
Like many other pagan feasts this was adopted by the Christian church and called Walpurgis', or Valborg's mass eve. (Valborg's mass held on May 1.) I wouldn't be surprised if there were a saint with that name. In the nordic countries, at least Sweden and Finland, it's still celebrated. Mainly because university students adopted it as their spring feast. And later on the communist movement decided to make May 1 their day. Which means this feast is nowadays an odd mix between drinking, singing, shouting and political speach.

[lorna]

I'm sorry but the Knights of Walpugis sounds like a Monty Python sketch.
I can almost see them galloping around on pretend horses with some guy banging coconuts together.
I also prefer the more current and certainly more intimitating "Deatheaters"

[Erich]

Originally posted by lorna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385745#post385745))
I'm sorry but the Knights of Walpugis sounds like a Monty Python sketch.
I can almost see them galloping around on pretend horses with some guy banging coconuts together.
I also prefer the more current and certainly more intimitating "Deatheaters"


hahaha, i was thinking that too, but more along the lines of the spanish inquesition

"Nobody expects the knights of walpurgis! Our cheif weapon is fear, fear and surprise -- our TWO cheif weapons are fear, surprise, and a rutheless efficiency, our THREE cheif weapons are fear, surprise, and a ruthless efficiency. and an almost fanatical dedication to Voldimort. our FOUR -- oh forget it ill come in again..."

[Barbara Kennedy]

This entire thread is priceless. Please keep it!
Even if it has to be moved to Quidditch Pitch, but keeping it here would be nice too.

[sylistra]

Walpurgis/Beltane/May Eve/April 30, May 1st/May Day, May 1

Traditionally this is a day to dance around the May Pole. In the United States the custom is observed, although the Pagan meaning is overlooked. This is a day that the May Queen and May King are picked to represent fertility and the unity of Lord and Lady in some traditions. Frey means "Lord" and Freya means "Lady."

"May Eve" or Walpurgis or Beltane, known as May Day in the United States, is traditionally a day that the cattle are moved from the wintering place to new grown fields to graze. This is traditionally a time of year that many animals that gave birth are busy feeding and raising their young. In the North, the hardy seeds and bulbs planted in the late fall begin to come up. In the South, early plantings begin to yield fresh veggies and strawberries for the markets. Walpurgis is Fjolkunnigkona Dagr or Witch Day in most of Europe a large bonfire burns on that day. The Scandinavian Witch is usually known as a "Seeress."

May Eve was the great springtime festival of the Seeresses, corresponding to Halloween at the opposite pole of the year. May Eve was known in Germany as Walpurgisnacht, in Ireland and Scotland as Beltaine or Baltein, when the god Bal, Bel, or Balder was burned in effigy. Still today in Germany an effigy of a witch is burned upon a very large bonfire. The mounds of wood are placed on high places in anticipation of the burning. This is probably a throw back not to the burning times of witches but heathen times when the bonfire was lit to rid evil by burning all of the old brush from the fields after plowing and then driving the cattle through the middle of two large fires to purify them while making them and the land fertile again.

In the Scandinavian countries it is more common for children to dress up "Halloween" style for Walpurga rather than the Americanized Halloween on October 31st!

Another favorite activity is fire jumping by the Celts in Great Britain. The young men and women show off their impressive bravery and endurance skills by jumping a dangerously high burning fire.

This time of year the Trillium in the USA starts blooming in the forests and the sweet smell of Honeysuckle begins to drift everywhere especially in the Southern USA.


I have a lot of this info on-hand. My birthday is April 30th and i used to study. I was actually quite interested when I read the original name for the Death Eaters was indeed going to be Knights of Walpurgis. WalpurgisNacht... Nacht = night.

The only thing about all of the above comments on this being a negative name, or anything to do with Satan, or whatnot: Beltaine/Walpurgis is supposed to be a joyous ocassion, one where the land is being made fertile once again for the coming growing season and later the harvest on Oct 31. So that's a positive, rather than a neg.

[PhoenixUK]

Does this mean that the Death Eaters might have special powers on one day a year, or that they are vunerable 1 day a year - this might aid Harry defeat them.

[sylistra]

I like that idea. Either/Or, both could prove to be interesting.

[MissFlibble]

Yep. The Potters were killed on Halloween. I think it says so in the first book.

[EvilRaven]

Oh finally..... I remember going to the transcript to research that little information and then to have forgotten what I was supposed to do lol.

[rotsiepots]

I suppose after the "Hermione fiasco" (her-my-own, anyone?) JKR decided to take it easy on the fandom and give Voldemort's henchmen an easy-to-pronounce name.

I'm fairly certain "Walpurgis" would be pronounced, "val-pour-giss", with the "pour" pronounced with a vague French accent.

Interesting indeed.

P.S. I'm sending this to the Common Room. :)

[MissFlibble]

Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=385991#post385991))
I suppose after the "Hermione fiasco" (her-my-own, anyone?)

;) Help me Hermy-one Kenobi, you're my only hope!

[Sincerity]

Originally posted by MissFlibble (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=386012#post386012))
;) Help me Hermy-one Kenobi, you're my only hope!


Weeheehee! Thank you for my early-morning-gee-I'm-normally-asleep-right-now-what's-wrong-with-me giggle! :D

[Rounded Buddha]

Maybe JK changed the name not just because it didn't sound very scary but it also gave away something about them if people found out what Walpurgus was? But why would she tell us the original name if that ws the case?

Ah Well I'll just have to wait 11 hours 43 minutes and 45 seconds :(

[looneylupin]

:yawn:

I'm usuallu asleep right now, but I need to get into a normal sleep schedule in order to get up early to get my copy of OoTP.

hmm...in the interview she says she may never use the history for the Death Eaters, I think she will have to now :D

Very interesting research there Sylistra...if Walpurgis is a joyous occasion, then the Death Eaters could have chosen it as a cruel joke...

hmm Im tired...

OoTP is almost here :wow:

:clappy:

[ArabellaBlack]

Upon reading that statement, did anyone else think of the Ku Klux Klan? Maybe that's a very Americanized way of looking at it, but they're pretty notorious around the world, aren't they? And Death Eaters and the Klan have very similar agenda.

I've gotta say, Death Eaters is far more preferable than Knights of Walpurgis. Perhaps Voldemort's birthday is on April 30th/May 1st? Nah. Going along sort of with the evil OotP theory, of which I'm a supporter, Walpurgis could mean that they're going back to an old time idea and making a new world... Death Eaters is pretty reminiscent of immortality, definately a Voldemort goal...

*back off to crazy theory land*

It's today, it's TODAY!!!!! :) :) :) :)

[Alastor D]

Yes, Arabella. I believe the KKK is pretty notorious around the world. Some similarities are obvious. Like hoods hiding their faces and killing muggles and mudbloods. We have, however, no evidense for JKR thinking about them when she created the DEs.

[lorna]

sylistra - we share a birthday. Thanks for the info as I used to think nothing much else seemed to happen on April 30.
Alastor - I just rewatched Robin Hood Prince of Thieves and thought to myself during the scene where Robin's father rides out of his castle and is faced a semi circle of long robed, hooded and masked people obviously up to no good, "There's a gang of Rowling's Death Eaters"

[Yadiami]

Arabella: I'd like it Voldemort's bithday were that date, it would explain the name and the decision to kill the Potters on Halloween, the 'opposite' celebration and time of the year. It would have a nice magical theory behind it.

[Serpentine]

Somehow I've got the impression that Walpurgis and Halloween are kind of two sides of the same coin.

Walpurgis / Beltane: April 30th / May 1st, dedicated to fertility and life.

Halloween / Samhain: October 30th / November 1st, dedicated to harvest and the dead.

[Virtuousdream]

I prefer Death eaters. Plain and intimidating. With the knight's of the Walpurgis I get the image of black knights on horses galloping across the country.

Doesn't work for me, though it would be interesting to hear our reactions if she had decided on it and said she was going to call them "death eaters."

[Alastor D]

Somehow I've got the impression that Walpurgis and Halloween are kind of two sides of the same coin.

Walpurgis / Beltane: April 30th / May 1st, dedicated to fertility and life.

Halloween / Samhain: October 30th / November 1st, dedicated to harvest and the dead.

Yes. Aren't all those old celebrations with roots in pagan times somehow linked to events or turning points in the year? So are yule and Midsummer too. But I'm afraid Halloween is a little late in the year to have anything to do with harvest.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I prefer Death Eaters, it's seems meaner than Knights of Walpurgis, but I don't really like either. Death Eaters seems to me to be kind of unoriginal. JKR is usually amazing at making up names, but here is the one place which I think she did a bad job.

[Sinead]

I don't know if this has been said, but I assumed that the Knights of Walpurgis was the name of the Death Eaters before they "showed their true colours", possibly a political activist group pushing to keep Muggle protection laws and Half-blood rights down.
It has been said in the book that a lot of people thought that Voldemort "had the right idea" but jumped off the bandwagon once he "showed his true colours", afterwhich he probably changed the name from Knights of Walpurgis to Death Eaters.

Did that make any sense?

lol, yeah I thought that it sounded kinda Monty Python-y too

[hesdead-dealwithit]

It makes sense, but I think JKR said they were just two different names, and she chose Death Eaters at the end.

[Alcina]

I don't know if this has been said, but I assumed that the Knights of Walpurgis was the name of the Death Eaters before they "showed their true colours", possibly a political activist group pushing to keep Muggle protection laws and Half-blood rights down.
It has been said in the book that a lot of people thought that Voldemort "had the right idea" but jumped off the bandwagon once he "showed his true colours", afterwhich he probably changed the name from Knights of Walpurgis to Death Eaters.

Did that make any sense?



Yeah, that was my interpretation too. I understood JKR to mean 'In the timeline of the HP world, the Death Eaters were once called the Knights of Walpurgis, then they changed their name' rather than 'I, the author, changed my mind' I figured they probably existed before the Dark Lord came along, and he saw them as a kind of ready made power base that he could put to good use, so he joined and managed to become their leader and then changed what they were all about to suit his own needs, changing their name in the process. So much easier than starting a new secret group from scratch. My take was that the KoW were a bit like the KKK riding about in hoods terrorising Muggleborns, but not seeking any real power till the Dark Lord took them over.

[jasper]

What's the story on this name change? Did the Death Eaters actually call themselves knights of Walpurgis or whatnot and then change to calling themselves Death Eaters? As if they stared out trying to call themselves a name that made them sound like a legitimate, legal, not bothering anyone group??? Or was there a group of these knights that were corrupted and taken over by Voldy?

Or did they never call themselves knights-- was the knights name something considered and discarded by JKR?

[hesdead-dealwithit]

The latter. JKR thought about giving them that name, and then decided against it. It is pretty much meaningless to us, except for the fact that it gives a little more insight into DEs.

[Cat]

jasper, I can't remember how it was worded in the interview, but I vaguely remember that it could have been happily translated either way.

[morgan le fay]

heres the excerpt from the web transcript:


JEREMY PAXMAN: And these scraps of paper which you've filed elegantly in a carrier, they're plot ideas or ...

JK ROWLING: Well some of them are totally redundant now because its been written and I keep them out of sentimentality's sake, I suppose. But some of it has backstory in it like this - in here is the history of the Death Eaters and I don't know that I'll ever actually need it - but at some point - which were once called something different - they were called the Knights of Walpurgis. I don't know if I'll need it. But I like knowing it. I like to keep that sort of stuff on hand.


sounds to me like in this history of the death eaters, which JKR wrote for no real reason except "to keep that sort of stuff on hand" and know it, the death eaters were actually formerly known as the knights of walpurgis. although, if the history of the name and all that were that important, im sure jkr would put it in the books somewhere, or at least mention the name "knights of walpurgis" somewhere in the series. seeing as she merely mentioned it in the interview and failed to place the tidbit in the books somewhere, i dont think itll be that influential.

itd be nice if jkr published all these "redundant" "scraps of paper" into a book once the series was over. ^_^

[Liselle]

I know this was discussed in this thread (where are Tom Riddle's friends)http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=19066&page=2&pp=30&highlight=walpurgis

I'll just post up some of what I posted on that here:

the knights of Walpurgis, has anyone else noticed the purgis part sounds quite like Purge? what are they purging, mudbloods????

Walpurgisnacht is situated directly opposite Halloween and is the end marker in the seasonal cycle which begins with Candlemas/Groundhog Day.
Children play pranks on unsuspecting victims around midnight on April 30, similar to Halloween, and some even dress up as witches and evil spirits.

May 1 marks the final victory of Spring over Winter, but before departing, the witches and their cohorts have one last fling. The night from April 30 to May 1 is called "Walpurgisnacht", the night of Walpurgis or Walpurga. The festival is marked by numerous rituals to ward off evil. Legend has it that on Walpurgisnacht the witches would gather on the Brocken, the highest peak in the Harz Mountains. Because of the Walpurgisnacht scene in Goethe's Faust, in which Mephistopheles takes Faust to the Brocken and has him revel with the witches, the witches gathering became widely known. Under Christian influence Walpurgisnacht became a fest to drive out evil spirits. Walpurgis derives its name from Walpurga or Walburga. Walburga, Abbess of Heidenheim near Eichstätt, a Catholic Saint, was known as the protectoress against witchcraft and sorcery. On the Eve of May 1, bells may toll in some areas and prayers may be said; there may be blessings with holy-water and blessed sprigs can be found in homes and barns. The most widespread remedy against evil spirits during Walpurgisnacht is noise. As soon as the sun sets, boys of all ages may make noise. Their equipment ranges from boards to beat onto the ground to pistols for firing shots.


Liselle

[Hollis]

very interesting-- just one correction, November 2nd is the Day of the Dead, Dia de los Muertos in Mexio ( you can see Alphonse Cuaron sneek in a little tidbit of this afaik in the movie of PoA)

so the continuity would be Halloween, or All Hallow's Eve on Oct. 31, then All Saints Day on November 1st, then Dia de los Muertos.

here's a scholarly article on the meaning of this holiday ( http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rjsalvad/scmfaq/muertos.html ) and a snippet This is an ancient festivity that has been much transformed through the years, but which was intended in prehispanic Mexico to celebrate children and the dead. Hence, the best way to describe this Mexican holiday is to say that it is a time when Mexican families remember their dead, and the continuity of life. so it doesn't go along with the idea of Death Eaters, at least to me.

re: May Day, I haven't seen it mentioned (?) in the HP books yet...

re: hoods the DE's wear, indeed I took it as a reference to the KKK's practice, their leader is/was called the Grand Wizard no? The hoods were to hide the horrid fact that the participants were often mayors, business men etc... of the community.

Movie Reference: the scene in the Cohen Brother's Film: O Brother, Where Art Thou?

[madamepomfrey]

When I googled Walpugis I got this: http://www.pnb.org/season/msnd-story.html
I think it is supposed to be set on walpugisnacht, interesting, Hermia........

[Miasma]

I'm glad she changed it to Death Eaters (I have suitable visons of evil men in cloaks there) -but with Knight's of Walpugis I have a Monty-Python type of picture with mincing knights in silver armour. It really doesn't work.

[Cerebus]

hahaha, i was thinking that too, but more along the lines of the spanish inquesition

"Nobody expects the knights of walpurgis! Our cheif weapon is fear, fear and surprise -- our TWO cheif weapons are fear, surprise, and a rutheless efficiency, our THREE cheif weapons are fear, surprise, and a ruthless efficiency. and an almost fanatical dedication to Voldimort. our FOUR -- oh forget it ill come in again..."

Someone seriously needs to do a Flash animation of this... :rotfl:

[red_fairy]

Knights of Walpurgis reminds me of Monty Python also. I am glad that she changed it, even if Death Eaters is a tad unorigional. I would have started snickering when Mr. Weasley said the name and explained the Dark Mark, definitely not the reaction JKR would want us to have. It would have taken a bit for me to take them seriously.

Knights of Walpurgis does sound like a political activist group who would want muggles out of the wizarding community. I think that it would be very probable for the death eaters to go by that name, or split off from the party or group when Voldemort announced his true intentions. I wonder if that is what they did. DId the Death eaters form the Knights of Walpurgis and then change the name when Voldemort decided it was time for the world to know his real intentions, or was the Knights of Walpurgis already formed and the Death Eaters formed when they decided that the Knights of Walpurgis weren't radical enough.

[rjade829]

Hello hello... I did a search and didn't find this topic, if it exists, please feel free to close :)

Anyway, we all know that JKR chooses names carefully. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on why the Death Eaters call themselves...well, Death Eaters.
It seems like one of those things that you just kind of accept in the story and don't think too much about, but that really is a bizarre name. I don't think they sat around and thought "hmmm, what shall we call ourselves...how about the Death Eaters, that sounds scary!" What does "death eater" mean? Do they figuratively get some kind of 'nourishment' from killing? Or does it have to do with a certain power they might have... maybe something happens when they kill someone. Why Eater?

Any ideas?

[Sevenegrus]

I think it may be related to the fact that they "feed" from death, in terms that their power comes not from the fact that they are good wizards, but how they use their wizarding skills. Their power is due to the fact that their abilities are used to torture, enslave and kill people, of turning people to their side or killing them. They feed their power from suffering, form destroying. In that sense, Death Eater makes perfect sense to me.

[jesssa]

I think of it this way... You know those things you put in your shoes that 'eat' the smell inside them?... odor eaters? They are eliminating the smell. So I think of death eaters to be figuratively 'eating' death; so that it doesn't exist. Killing people not included, they are staving off death [for their master] and probably hoping to do the same for themselves.

[RemusLupinFan]

The label Death Eater is reflective of Voldemort's obsession with overcoming death and becoming immortal. I assume his followers share this goal as well, along with their other goals of world-domination and purification of the wizarding world. Calling themselves Death Eaters seems to signify their hope of "consuming" death, and thus, totally destroying it.

I also like what Sevenegrus said about Death Eaters "feeding" off of all the death and destruction they cause under Voldemort's reign. Indeed, Voldemort and his followers revel in this kind of brutality, so being called Death Eaters embodies their ravaging the wizarding world, inflicting pain and death, and their enjoyment of these actions.

[LaurenLeigh]

Do they figuratively get some kind of 'nourishment' from killing?

A mental nourishment I'd say. Feeding off others pain, misfortune, suffering etc. Makes them feel better about themselves believing that in a way they're contributing something to society or bettering it in some way by killing off what they would consider invalids. Sick individuals!

[LuvHP_001]

I think it may be related to the fact that they "feed" from death, in terms that their power comes not from the fact that they are good wizards, but how they use their wizarding skills. Their power is due to the fact that their abilities are used to torture, enslave and kill people, of turning people to their side or killing them. They feed their power from suffering, form destroying. In that sense, Death Eater makes perfect sense to me.

That sums up my thoughs! :lol: Thanks!

[Mrs Flamel]

I have asked this same question...

My DH and I both think of vultures when we think of Death Eaters, since they are creatures who feed off dead animals.

It may be an apt comparison, the the DEs tend to feed off of LV's power. They follow in his wake.

Interestingly, you know all those descriptions of Snape that people have equated to a bat? Well, many could also describe a vulture. (the swooping, the hooked nose...) If we're right on this whole vulture connection, then maybe it hints at where Snape true loyalties are...

That's the only explanation I've come up with. The idea of defying death that some of you have mentioned is a good one too.

[Credo Buffa]

I like sevenegrus's interpretation of the Death Eaters "feeding" on death. And not just that they get their powers from killing, but that their quest for domination of the wizarding world, and the world at large for that matter, is fed by death as well. They consume death to nourish their power, their cause, and their sick passion for evil.

I also think that the word "death" adds to the dark, foreboding quality that they possess. "Life Eater" might be synonymous with "Death Eater" by the above explanations, but it is almost as if to say that they do not only take away life (which they could do without killing, but by simply inducing enough fear that the lives of others are dictated by their hate), but death as well, in the sense that it is not simply enough that their victims die, but that their deaths be agonizing, slow, like savoring the pain and suffering that they are causing like they would a good meal. Even when using the "killing curse," which is instantaneous, the Death Eaters seem to prefer taunting their victims for an extended period before performing it. Even if they aren't inducing physical pain, the presence of death, the thought of it, and the inevitability of it brings out the kind of mental anguish that feeds the Death Eaters in that same, sick way. It's a really genius term, and perfectly accurate for what JKR has shown us.

Great topic, by the way!

[MagicMuggle]

I personally think that the term 'Death Eaters' refers to them and that they like to cause and spread the fear of death as much as them feeding off of it as Sevenegrus said earlier. It's all about the idea of spreading around the nervousness and uneasyness of everyday life.

[hpfan_08]

I think that they are called Death "Eaters" because, figurativly speaking they eat muggles and muggle-borns by eliminating them.

[Weatherby]

It's a catchy name.
For all we know a reporter thought up the name while writing articles on them and the name stuck that way. That's how Jack the Ripper earned his name isn't it?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Here is a discussion of how the Death Eaters got their name.

Knights of Walpurgis an old name for Death Eaters? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11160)

[Norbertha]

Hi.
I wrote this essay last night, and I thought this thread might be the right place for it. Enjoy!

” … the Death Eaters … were once called something different – they were called the Knights of Walpurgis …” J. K. Rowling, BBC Newsnight interview, 19th June 2003.

I was doing some research on the Death Eaters for the fanfic that I’m writing, when I came across this quote by JKR. I was inspired by the quote, and by Cindy Eric’s excellent essay in The Plot Thickens, to find out more about the Knights of Walpurgis and the ancient European customs and mythology that surrounds the Walpurgis Night. Luckily, our house is full of books about British mythology, so I was able to look up a whole lot of information. This is what I found:

Walpurgis Night, on which the Knights of Walpurgis is undoubtedly a pun, falls on the night between the 30th April and the 1st May. The first day of May is known as May Day, which was an important festival in Britain and elsewhere in Europe.

It’s also an old belief that on May Day eve, witches gather on Brocken Mountain and hold revels with the Devil (according to The Plot Thickens, p. 64).

May Day is important because it’s one of the old quarter days of the Celtic calendar. The old Celtic year was divided into quarters, in this way: 30th April/1st May; 31st July/1st August; 31st October/1st November and 31st January/1st February.

”Broadly speaking, the Celtic calendar was split into a warm and a cold period, and the festivals on 1 November and 1 May marked the beginning and end of the farming cycles … It appears that the Celtic tribes reckoned by nights rather than by days, and attached special importance to the eve of the festivals.” (From D. Clarke and A. Roberts 1996: Twilight of the Celtic Gods. London: Blandford. Page 110)

These four days, that marked the boundaries between the different times of the year, were celebrated with festivals, of which ”the eve before May Day saw one of the biggest gatherings of the year …” (Same source as before).

Now, all these dates, apart from one, sounded very familiar to me! In Potterverse, several important things are associated with these dates:

The night between 30th April and 1st May is Walpurgis night, associated through its name with the Death Eaters. It is possible that this date was celebrated by the Death Eaters in some way, or that it has a special importance.

31st July is Harry’s birthday.

31st October is Halloween, the day of Voldemort’s downfall and possibly also the day Harry was conceived.

31st January/1st February: As far as I know, nothing important has happened on this day in Potterverse. I can’t think of anything, can you? Will we see something important on this day in future books?

It is also interesting to note that Halloween is the “opposite” of Walpurgis night, in two ways: 1) They are exactly six months apart. And 2) May Day marks the start of summer, and is associated with new life and growth. Halloween marks the start of winter, and is a festival of the dead. (I will come back to the ceremonies and folklore associated with the four festivals shortly.)


Names for the four festivals vary between different places, but here are some Celtic ones:

Samhain = Halloween. Samhain means summer’s end.
Imbolc = 1 February. Also known as Brigid’s Day / St. Bride’s Day.
Beltane = May Day
Lughnasa = 1 August. Also called Lammas.


And now to the customs:

On all of the quarter days, people would burn a bonfire through the night. Afterwards they would scatter the ashes to the four compass points.

31st January/ 1st February: Marks the beginning of the lambing season, and is a lambing festival. In an attempt to Christianise the festival, the church made the day sacred to the goddess Bride (Brigid, Bridget). The church also called it Candlemas, which is a feast of purification marked by the lighting of candles. The candles were also used in sympathetic magic, to strengthen the power of the sun. The first snowdrops (flowers) came out at this time – ant they are also associated with purity. This is the time of year when old and weak people or animals often die. The pagan festival was associated with femininity and fertility. One custom was to bake a cake shaped like a woman.

30th April/1st May: The beginning of summer, a festival of new life. The day is in honour of Belenos/Bel, the Celtic god of light. Garlands of flowers and branches were hung on doors and farm buildings. In some areas, they visited special places, like for example a carved stone, where they would offer flowers and water to the stone. Great bonfires were lit on May Eve to welcome back the sun. The bonfire had to be lit in a special way: First everybody had to extinguish their domestic fires. then 9 men were chosen to light the bonfire. They must not carry metal (e.g. coins). These men gathered 9 branches of different types of wood, and lay them down in a cross shape. The fire lit by rubbing 2 bits of oak together. In the very old days, 2 bonfires were lit by druids, who chanted spells over them. Cattle were driven between them, which protected them from disease. Or else the cattle could be driven sunwards around a single fire. Brances of rowan were carried as magical protection from witchcraft and other evils. One custom was to burn a live calf in the fire to ensure fertility. Beltane Bannock: A bannock was divided up, and one piece was blackened. The one who chose this piece became a symbolic sacrifice, and had to leap three times through the flames. The baking of the bannock was a ritual in itself, and it was baked with seeds from all the crops grown by the community during the year. The Bringing in of the Summer: Young people spend the night in the forest and bring back green branches in the morning to celebrate the return of vegetation. A well known custom is the May Pole. A May Pole is a young tree (Elm/Birch) taken into town and decorated with red and white streamers. This protects against witches! The young ones danced around the fire and sung ”Fire! Blaze and burn the witches! Fire! Fire! Burn the witches!” (p. 812 of J. G. Frazer: The Golden Bough. A Study in Magic and Religion.)

31st July/ 1st August : I haven’t been able to find much about this festival. Another name for it is Lammas, and it marks the height of the summer, but with the knowledge of winter coming. One custom was to race each others up in the hills.

31st October/ 1st November: The start of winter, and a festival of the dead. This was the end of the year in the Celtic calendar. ”…it was a special and dangerous time, when the veil between the world and the Otherworld was temporarily drawn away.” (p. 119 in Clarke and Roberts) Dead ancestors returned temporarily. Extinguish domestic fires. Dance around communal bonfires. Young men carried burning branches through the fields. Leave food offerings for the family spirits. ”At this time of the year, spirits could walk around in disguise, and this was the origin behind the tradition of wearing masks or disguises (’guizing’) at Hallowe’en parties.” (p. 120 in Clarke and Roberts) As Harry Potter sleuths we can of course note the use of the word “veil” and hope/fear that Sirius will show up again on Halloween … ;)

Walpurgis night, in particular, is associated with witchcraft and protection/threat from witches. I found some really good quotes on how this was done:


”We have to remember that the eve of May Day is also the notorious Walpurgis night, when the witches are everywhere speeding unseen through the air on their hellish errands. … The kindling of the fires on Walpurgis night is called ’driving away the witches.’ The custom of kindling fires on the eve of May Day (Walpurgis night) for the purpose of burning the witches is, or used to be, widespread in the Tyrol, Moravia, Saxony and Silesia.” ( from J. G. Frazer (1960): The Golden Bough. A Study in Magic and Religion. London: MacMillan & co.
p. 814)

”On May Day, when the evening bell has rung and the twilight is falling, the ceremony of ’burning the witches’ begins. Men and boys make a racket with whips, bells pots and pans; the women carry censers; the dogs are unchained and run barking and yelping about. As soon as the church bells begin to ring, the bundles of twigs, fastened on poles, are set on fire, and incense is ignited. Then all the house-bells and dinner-bells are rung, pots and pans are clashed, dogs bark, every one must make a noise. And amid this hubbub all scream at the pitch of their voices: ’Witch flee, flee from here, or it will go ill with thee.’ Then they run seven times round the houses, the yards, and the village. So the witches are smoked out of their lurking-places and driven away. The custom of expelling the witches on Walpurgis night is still, or was down to recent years, observed in many parts of Bavaria and among the Germans of Bohemia.” (Same source, p. 735)

This is of course seen from a Muggle perspective! :lol:

Anyway, I was really intrigued by this wealth of mythology and old beliefs. It’s one of the many, many layers that make the Harry Potter books so special.

To get the discussion going, I’ve made some “additional sleuthing notes” for you to chew on:

1) Do you know of any other old customs or beliefs to do with any of the four quarter dates?
2) Is May Day or any of the quarter days celebrated in your country? In what way?
3) 31st July and 31st January are also opposites – could 31st January be Tom Riddle’s birthday?
4) Wizards seem to celebrate Halloween in much the same way as Muggles do – Is this also true for May Day eve, or do they have their own way of celebrating it?
5) Is May Day eve of special importance to the Death Eaters? What do you imagine the Death Eaters do on May Day eve?
6) Will something special happen on 31st January in book 6 or 7?

(Sources that I’ve used:
J. G. Frazer (1960): The Golden Bough. A Study in Magic and Religion. London: MacMillan & co.
D. Clarke and A. Roberts (1996): Twilight of the Celtic Gods. London: Blandford.
R. Whitlock (1978): A Calendar of Country Customs. London: B.T. Batsford Ltd.)

[Serpentine]

Great essay, Norbertha! :tu: :clap: Over in the Celtic Mythology (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=25723) thread we've been discussing this as well, but not in such amazing detail as you just did. However we did find quite a few good internet resources on the four Celtic festivals (resp. in some sources eight - 4 fire festivals plus 4 sun festivals). I knew that both Walpurgis and Halloween are two sides of the same coin... as said before in my earlier post in this thread. :) Have you ever thought about posting your essay at MuggleNet? I have no idea if or when there will be a sequel to TPT, though I hope there will. (Made the mistake to think they'd consider my theories on alchemy, mythology or time too weird for print... oh well, maybe next time.)

If on Walpurgis the idea was to drive witches and wizards away and even to burn them, I can definitely see how a gang of anti-muggle wizards would crop up and give themselves this name - in order to remember the injustice done to them. "They started it all attacking us and torturing our kind, we have to take vengeance!" Eventually, vengeance for specific deeds would fuse with superiority feelings, grow to general hatred against all who happened to share the "filthy" characteristic to be muggle, and turn into the desire to wipe them off the face of the earth. :agree:

By the way, Alastor D: at first it sounded surprising to me too because Nov 1st is so late in the year, but according to the "eight-festivals" sources Samhain was indeed the third and last of the harvest festivals. The first one wasLammas (July 31st/Aug 1st, near Harry's birthday), the second was Herfest (Sep 21st, near Hermione's birthday), the third and last was Samhain/Halloween.

ETA: Norbertha, I've posted some more general info on the Celtic festivals here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1678949#post1678949) in the Celtic Mythology thread. We'd be happy to welcome you there too. :)

[Norbertha]

Hi, Serpentine!

Thanks a lot for the feedback on my essay!!! Sorry I haven't replied before, I've been away, see.

Thanks for linking to the Celtic Mythology thread - it looks awesome!
Have you ever thought about posting your essay at MuggleNet?
No, I hadn't thought about that. I didn't know you could post there. How do you do it?

[Alastor D]

Thanks Serpentine. I again fell into the trap of comparing with the climate where I live. And here November is definitely too late to harvest anything.

And to Norbertha's question 2)
May Day's eve and May Day is the closest to a carnival we ever get in this neck of the woods. Nothing to do with witch-burning or whatever believes though. It seems to have started as a university students' end of term celebration and then spread out to the rest of the population.

The next occasion to let your hair loose and drink as much bewerage your head can take is Midsummer. It's roots in old solstice-celebrating is clear, I believe.

[dobby007]

Hi everybody,

I´m a german newbie and hope I get along here :blush:

I use to post at a brilliant german site called harrypotter-xperts.de but things got stuck there at the point of the origin and naming of the Death Eaters.

My theory is thus:

The Name is connected to the "two central questions" hint by JKR. What did Voldemort do to make sure he would not die?

He lost his abilibity to die partly by performing a ritual that included the action of the Death Eaters. They literally ate his death, so when Voldemort comes to face death he simply can´t die no more (I hope you get the point of what I trie to explain, it´s a bit complicated to summarize!)

So that Knights of Walpurgis Order ate Voldemorts death in a ritual performed on Walpurgisnacht (the namesday of holy Walpurga, a daughter of an english bishop or so).

The dark mark is the key or store to this ritual.

That also explain why voldemort wonders how any of his Death Eaters should ever have believed he was dead and would not return.

So, please tell me what you think of this!

Greetings
Dobby007

[aimeemichelle]

i think that the name lord voldemort gave his servents "Death Eaters" means simply that. they eat death. it may sound a bit weird now but just wait ill explain. ok u know voldemort fears death right and belives he will be immortal soon. ok so his sevents must fear it too so they eat it "defy it" their name repisents what they do defy death and what they belive they will be immortal just like their master. or sumthing like that, it sounds better in my hear.

[Norbertha]

Ok, I've checked JKR's website, and there is no "happy birthday, Lord Voldemort" there. So I guess my theory that I posted a few posts back might have been wrong. Or else, she doesn't want to wish Evil Overlords a happy birthday. Or maybe there's not enough human left in him to have a birthday? Or perhaps he now celebrates, not Tom Riddle's birthday, but his "re-birthday" around midsummer?

i think that the name lord voldemort gave his servents "Death Eaters" means simply that. they eat death. it may sound a bit weird now but just wait ill explain. ok u know voldemort fears death right and belives he will be immortal soon. ok so his sevents must fear it too so they eat it "defy it" their name repisents what they do defy death and what they belive they will be immortal just like their master. or sumthing like that, it sounds better in my hear.
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but I've been thinking too that maybe the Death Eaters "eat" death, meaning that they somehow take death upon themselves, to allow LV to become immortal.

EDIT: I just saw your post, Dobby007! He lost his abilibity to die partly by performing a ritual that included the action of the Death Eaters. They literally ate his death, so when Voldemort comes to face death he simply can´t die no more (I hope you get the point of what I trie to explain, it´s a bit complicated to summarize!)

So that Knights of Walpurgis Order ate Voldemorts death in a ritual performed on Walpurgisnacht
Yes! This is exactly what I had in mind too! Only you expressed it far better than me.

[Mrs Flamel]

I found this topic fascinating a while back and thought I'd resurrect it, if anyone would like to explore more of the meaning behind both "Knights of Walpurgis" and "Death Eaters," as well as the symbolism associated with the group.

I found this tidbit on St. Walburga (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15526b.htm) (for whom the festival Walpurgisnacht was named) that was interesting:
She is thus looked upon by many as the first female author of England and Germany. This is in reference to her accounts of her brothers' lives. She is also of royal blood, supposedly.

From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night) a little more on Walpurgisnacht:
In Germany, Walpurgisnacht, the night from April 30 to May 1, is the night when allegedly the witches on the Blocksberg hold a large celebration and wait on the arrival of the devil.

Historically the Walpurgisnacht is derived from pagan spring customs, where the arrival of spring was celebrated with bonfires at night. With the Christianization of Germany these old customs were condemned as heathen.

Anton Szandor LaVey chose Walpurgis Night, 1966 to found the Church of Satan.

The Blocksberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocksberg) has some interesting history as well:
A strange apparition has occasionally frightened climbers on the Brocken: a towering, shadowy figure looms out from the mist, its head sheathed in rainbow rings.

This Brocken Spectre appears when the sun shines from low behind a climber who is looking down from a ridge or peak into mist. The light projects the climber's shadow forward through the mist, often in an odd triangular shape due to perspective. The spectre appears so huge because the mist obscures the reference points by which an observer can judge its size, and because the shadow falls on water droplets of varying distances from the eye, confusing depth perception. The "ghost" can appear to move (sometimes quite suddenly) because of the movement of the cloud layer. The glow and rings constitute a "glory", a circular rainbow-like phenomenon centered directly opposite the sun.This reminds me of the giants living in the mountains...

This mountain also figures in the legend of Faust, known for making a deal with the devil. This is based on the tales of Johann Georg Faust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_Faust) who was accused of many sins, which include the practice of black magic and selling his soul to the devil.

I thought that this information can help put a more "evil" spin on Walpurgisnacht, which in the modern day, seems rather innocuous.

[Norbertha]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread, Mrs Flamel! I've missed it a lot. :clap:

That's interesting about Blocksberg. As you say, it puts a darker spin on Walpurgisnacht. I've been wondering why the "nice" festivals seem to be "evil" in Potterverse, and vice versa ~ Walpurgis Night seems such a merry affair, it's the start of summer and everything. But in Potterverse, it's associated with the Death Eaters. Halloween, on the other hand, is a "dark" festival among us muggles. It's a celebration of the dead, and the start of winter. However, in Potterverse, it's the day of Voldemort's first downfall, and thus a day of joy. :huh:

It's funny~ I've known about the name Walpurgis Night since I was very little. Here where I live, we call it Valborgsnatt (which is the same word). Valborgsnatt is when witches gather on Blokksberg (Blockberg, Mount Brocken) and dance. We have an expression here, if you are angry with somebody, you can tell them to "dra til Blokksberg", which means "go to Mount Brocken". Blokksberg is of course quite far away from here, but also, you're effectively accusing the person of being a witch! :lol: