Significance of a cut?

[Nickles]

When Harry is describing his ordeal with Voldemort at the end of the fourth book, both of his listeners are very concerned at a point. As soon as Harry tells Serius and Dumbledor tha Wormtail cut his arm, Serius is very concerned, and Dumbledor actually gets up to look at the wound. And they both did this before Harry described that his blood was taken, or that Voldemort could touch him.

Most people don't pay attention to that (because of the glint of triumph right after) but Harry being cut by wormtail was obviously very significant. Now, why?

[Picko]

To be quite honest with you I don't know, but hopefully within the next 24 hours or so we might have an answer :)

By the way, :welcome: to the forums. I hope you enjoy it here :)

[Yadiami]

I always thought they were worried it was a serius cut or made with dangerous black magic which could be harmful to Harry.
Still, they seem to overreact a little. There may be more to it than it seems.

[InvasionOfTheGuru4]

Maybe Wormtail put a bit of that silver stuff in Harry. As many know a silver weapon kills a werewolf. So maybe somehow Harry hurts Lupin? :( Nooo!

[Yadiami]

Invasion: No, the cut was made before Voldemort gave Wormtail the silver hand.

[JustRelax!]

I suppose i overlook that when i read book 4.

Although when i first read that cut bit i thought Warmtail was cutting like a huge gash in his arm or something, when i realised it was a little cut i calmed down a bit!

I think sirius overracted because he's just over protective of Harry - everyone is really because he's always getting into trouble!

[wendelin_the_weird]

Originally posted by Nickles (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=386452#post386452))
When Harry is describing his ordeal with Voldemort at the end of the fourth book, both of his listeners are very concerned at a point. As soon as Harry tells Serius and Dumbledor tha Wormtail cut his arm, Serius is very concerned, and Dumbledor actually gets up to look at the wound. And they both did this before Harry described that his blood was taken, or that Voldemort could touch him.

Most people don't pay attention to that (because of the glint of triumph right after) but Harry being cut by wormtail was obviously very significant. Now, why?



When ever I cut myself with a knife, my mom wants to make sure that it wasn't deep, and that it was a clean knife and that I wasn't around raw beef, pork or chicken, so that I won't get infected with some kind of disease.
Maybe Harry'll have a scar from it and as Dumbledore said in book one "Scar's can be handy . . ." Cheers:)!

BTW: :welcome: to the forums! :D

[Weasley24]

Sirius was probably just being over protective of Harry. Maybe he thought there was some type of poison on the blade or something that would harm Harry?

[Rien]

When I first read it, I thought they were freaking out because maybe he'd been given the Dark Mark or something. Then I realized it was the wrong arm, and that the mark was burned onto the skin, not cut. But still, that's the first thing that comes to mind each time I read that passage. heh

(Erm, am I the only one who thinks it's dead cute that Sirius reacts the way he does at that part? I'm always just like... "Awww look he's worried!" lol)

[Puffskein]

They were concerned, I think, simply because Harry had been injured in order to resurrect the Dark Lord. Not a nice thing to happen to anyone. And Sirius reacted like that because it was that $^%**%(&% traitor Wormtail who did it.

[ultimate sacrifice]

Just a theory...but I think there is something with the "blood". V needed the blood of his enemy and his servant to get his body back. (He also needed the bone of his father???) Bear with me on this and help me flesh it out.

OotP/pg #836: DD to Harry - "I am speaking of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative." And..."She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother's sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you."

And again on pg 836 of OotP.."While you can still call home the place where your mothers's blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows this."

In GOF, V wanted the blood of Harry for some reason not the blood of just any enemy. I interpretted that to mean that Harry's blood helped to break the power that Lily/Harry had over V. But now, I wonder if the look of triumph that DD had and the reason Sirius and V were so interested in Harry's cut in GOF is some kind of key to conquering V.??? Did it make him more human or something??? Will Lily's willingness to make the "ultimate sacrifice" for her son and the fact that her blood through Harry is now in V mean something?

Think about it with me here and help me out with this. Via Harry, Now Lily's blood is in V and Wormtail! So, the blood of the mother who sacrificed herself for Harry protects Harry in some way through this ancient magic that DD used. Additionally, Wormtail was "spared" by Harry in the shrieking shack in POA and then Harry's blood is used by V to gain back his body and his full strength.... I've been wrestling with this since I finished OotP, and I keep coming back to it.

I don't pretend to understand or predict JKR's plot sequencing. But, do any of you think there is a clue here??? I keep coming back to it and would really like to get some feedback. I just think there is some connection between the emphasis on Lily's sacrifice for Harry and then the fact that the ancient magic that is used to protect him at the Dursley's is connected to Lily's blood and then V wanted Harry's blood to revive himsef to full power and then Harry spared Wormtail...In a way Lily's blood is in V and Wormtail, her betrayer as well, ya know what I mean?

What do you guys think?

I think Sirius and DD were so interested in the cut and Harry's bloodshed in GOF for a reason. DD knows the ancient magic. I wonder if Sirius knew something about this as well??? Lily is referred to as a muggle and the whole "pureblood" wizard thing. Sirius' dead mother kept screaming about it from her portrait and JK discussed Sirius family tree in one of the chapters. There's just something about the whole direct "bloodline" thing. Lily is of muggle decent, something the "purebloods" detest and its her sacrifice that is somehow key in all of this. [-EDIT for spoiler.-] I just think there is something to all of the "bloodline" stuff in the overall plot. Can't get my brain to grasp it all and map it out.

Help, I can't stop trying to understand!

-EDIT: To combine double posts. pasalita

To the moderator, I don't know how to cut and paste this to make a new thread out of it, if I started something new here, would you do it for me? I'm not too computer literate. I guess we can title it.."There's Power in the blood!" Then if you want to delete me from this thread, I understand. Sorry if I went out of the bounds of this thread title.

-To reply: Actually, this is the best place for your theory at this point (i.e. it doesn't necessarily warrant it's own thread since it will draw similar posts as this one does. ) Moreover, it helps this thread evolve. If you want to discuss it further, feel free to PM me. :) pasalita

[FredRocksMySocks]

I think that the glint of triumph is in relation to the cut, they both wanted to see it to make sure it was not too deep, infected, green, I think...I don't think it was anything like an omen. Perhaps he will have a new fortune-telling scar from that one lol?

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

When ever I cut myself with a knife, my mom wants to make sure that it wasn't deep, and that it was a clean knife and that I wasn't around raw beef, pork or chicken, so that I won't get infected with some kind of disease.
Maybe Harry'll have a scar from it and as Dumbledore said in book one "Scar's can be handy . . ." Cheers:)!

BTW: :welcome: to the forums! :D


Well, Harry's scar has come in handy in several occasions... it gives him warnings about Voldemort.

[jasper]

I'm trying to find a "blood" thread because I had a random thought about the blood issues today. It looks like this thread has been idle a while. Can I just jump in here? I don't want to start a thread that would get closed for being repetitive. So I'm going to try posting here because it's the closest fit I could find.

Okay: the Blacks and the Malfoys and Slytherin (way back when) were really hung up on blood. They are snobby about it and they come off looking like bad people. We pretty much all see this a bad thing because they are guilty of judging people on their blood and not their actions. And they mistreat people who don't have "good enough" blood.

On the other hand, blood is the only thing that has kept Harry alive so far- his mother's blood protection. Dumbledore tapped into an ancient magic and was able to set up protection for Harry when he was in the home of some member of Lily's bloodline.

So that suggests that this obsession Mrs. Black had about her blood line had a purpose that dates from ancient magic. The wizards who tried to strengthen and preserve their blood lines would be able to create greater and greater protection for their families. So maybe these snobby, hateful people actually had/ have a valid point in insisting on the purity of blood???

[Magi]

I think DD reacted the way he did, becasue he suspected Voldy used Harry's blood to resurrect himself.

Sirius' reaction was because he was being protective of Harry, and wanted to be sure Harry hadn't been poisoned, or something along those lines.

[ultimate sacrifice]

Jasper, that is a good thought process, never looked at it that way. Good thinking. I do think that Harry will be pivotal in the overall plot because of his "muggle" heritage and that something will happen to dispell the whole "muggle" "mudblood" prejudice. Voldemort using Harry's blood to revive himself will be pivotal in his fall. (IMHO)

[Puffskein]

There's always a chance that Voldemort having Harry's blood has a significance we don't fully understand. I think Sirius's reaction is explained well enough by his feelings about the person who did the cutting. It's just as well his exclamation was censored - I wouldn't be surprised if he'd gone on a minor wrecking spree.

[Jill]

I agree with the use of Harrys blood being a problem for Voldermort as he strives to become less human. Voldermorts use of Harrys blood takes him a step backwards from his goal to become something else other than muggle or mudblood. Voldermort has possibly weakened himself a little by doing this act. He strives for immortality yet may have become one step closer to mortality with using Harrys blood.

[UselessCharmMaster]

Well, after the first reading I thought they feared the wound might be poisoned or something like this. (Like Frodo hurt with the knife of Morgoth? :huh: )

[Hpmons]

Very good, and unique idea! I think that it is most likely not too important, Sirius and Dumbledore were probably just worried because he was hurt. Sirius does overreact sometimes, and the fact that it used to be one of his best friends, it is understandable. I cant see Wormtail poisioning Harry somehow, Voldemort wants to kill Harry himself, to prove that he can, so he wouldnt allow Wormtail to hurt Harry too much.

[roberto]

The first thing I thought about when reading this thread was that part of the Lord of the Rings. If I remember correctly, the wound Frodo recieves almost brings him over to the Dark side and would have if not treated in time. The wound also hurts more and more the closer they are to Mordor and is part of the resason why Frodo does the thing he does in the end of the books (don't want to spoil it for anybody ;)). Anyway it has been two years since I have read the LotR books, so I might be a little off.

[dorcasderr]

Whereas, the first thing I thought about when reading this thread was the scene from the Narnia Tales in "The Last Battle", where Aslan allows himself to be sacrificed...his blood to be shed...wherein he saves Edmund...and activates ANCIENT MAGIC. Ancient Magic seems to be about blood. Whereas Harry's cut, leading to his giving blood to resurrect Voldemort, is not saving a life in the same sense (that we yet know of), I believe it activated more ancient magic that will lead to Voldemort's downfall. Voldemort must not have gotten an O.W.L. in ancient magic...

[UselessCharmMaster]

Whereas, the first thing I thought about when reading this thread was the scene from the Narnia Tales in "The Last Battle", where Aslan allows himself to be sacrificed...his blood to be shed...wherein he saves Edmund...and activates ANCIENT MAGIC. Ancient Magic seems to be about blood. Whereas Harry's cut, leading to his giving blood to resurrect Voldemort, is not saving a life in the same sense (that we yet know of), I believe it activated more ancient magic that will lead to Voldemort's downfall. Voldemort must not have gotten an O.W.L. in ancient magic...
Hmmm, interesting. Because Harry and Voldie-Thing are now connected by the blood... :huh:

[Kaonashi]

I think he used the blood so he wouldn't get hurt if he tried to touch Harry. wormtail wanted to use another wizard's bllod, but Voldermort told him know, only Harry Potter would do. He knew that if he used harry's blood there was a possibility of building up "immunity" to Harry in a sense; he could physically touch Harry and not be harmed himself. This may actually be his downfall though...I agree with the person that said that Harry's blood may actually make Voldermort MORE human than before, and therefore easier to kill for good.

[Tirwen Lupin]

When I read that part, I thought of the incident with the Morgul blade as well. I was thinking that Sirius and Dumbledore may have thought that there was some sort of transfer of dark magic through the cut.
Or they might simply have been concerned that it was deep and serious.
Or maybe there's a significance to that arm that we don't know about? :huh:

And about the blood, it's intersting that Harry and Voldemort are now connected by something so deep. It could quite possibly contribute to his downfall. Maybe something along the lines of their wands having the same cores...?

[Constant Vigilance]

I think he used the blood so he wouldn't get hurt if he tried to touch Harry. wormtail wanted to use another wizard's bllod, but Voldermort told him know, only Harry Potter would do. He knew that if he used harry's blood there was a possibility of building up "immunity" to Harry in a sense; he could physically touch Harry and not be harmed himself. This may actually be his downfall though...I agree with the person that said that Harry's blood may actually make Voldermort MORE human than before, and therefore easier to kill for good.

I think you explained it very cleraly. DD and Sirius didn't overreact, thet knew Voldemort wanted Harry's blood to regain life. Of course Sirius got angry, it's blasfemous to use Harry's blood to attain power for evil. But DD look of triumf, even knowing DD can touch Harry gives of a clue to Voldemort having lost something in exchange for getting to be Harry's blood brother. Serves him right!

[dorcasderr]

Yes, I think it serves him right, too! Voldemort was unaware for a long time that Harry had a connection with his mind. Now he is unaware of what he either may have given up by using Harry's blood or what may now, through Harry, be coursing through his veins. If Harry's blood does in some way spell Voldemort's doom, when Voldemort realizes this...when he KNOWS he is defeated, he will (like Satan in his fall from heaven, be Twice as vengeful as before.

[ginnybatbogeysyou]

I always thoght they reacted because Voldemort had harry's blood now. Reading this topic I thought that didn't make sense, but when I think about it: Voldemorts also has Lily's protection now and maybe even a bit of "The Power".

[synergy]

Hi ultimate sacrifice. I started a disscussion similar to what you are saying in this thread, but mine was in clues for books 6 and 7 I think.

Anyway, the thing you are missing is that in the graveyard before the death eaters show Voldemort is talking about his father/family and then he stops says quietly to himself that he is getting sintemental and then continues on...

Let me see if I can find the thread we disscussed this in...It is explained a lot better than what I can do now...:huh:


Ok, we touched on it around post 817 page 28 Possibly dropped clues for book 6&7 in the Hall of Prophecy. Basiclly V. is fighting agains the good that is in Harry's blood, and he was also drinking a potion containing unicorns blood, so he has a cursed life.

[snogoddess]

i thought about the cut being so significant, since Sirius and Dumbledore had very noticeable reactions. On Sirius' part, I guess, as others say, he's just concerned about Harry and what Wormtail might have inflicted on him.

But Dumbledore's reaction is what puzzled me. He did say Voldemort was able to surpass that part about breaking the ancient spell Lily casted on her son, by getting Harry's blood. This therefore, would make Harry a little closer to similarities with Voldemort.

But didn't Dumbledore also mentioned in the third book about a saving a another wizard's life, the one who saved him would have a sort of 'bond' with the other? I keep thinking something Wormtail might have done during that time he inflicted the wound on Harry. He, thus, would have to somehow return the favor... wouldn't he?

[synergy]

i thought about the cut being so significant, since Sirius and Dumbledore had very noticeable reactions. On Sirius' part, I guess, as others say, he's just concerned about Harry and what Wormtail might have inflicted on him.

But Dumbledore's reaction is what puzzled me. He did say Voldemort was able to surpass that part about breaking the ancient spell Lily casted on her son, by getting Harry's blood. This therefore, would make Harry a little closer to similarities with Voldemort.

But didn't Dumbledore also mentioned in the third book about a saving a another wizard's life, the one who saved him would have a sort of 'bond' with the other? I keep thinking something Wormtail might have done during that time he inflicted the wound on Harry. He, thus, would have to somehow return the favor... wouldn't he?

That was my basic thought. Maybe the reaction from Sirius and DD had to do with the fact that Wormtail had a chance to repay is Lift debt to Harry and didn't do it....

[dorcasderr]

That's an interesting point, but I still think the significance of the cut is the blood. In reply to the post where it is suggested that Voldemort now has some of "the power" from Harry in him...hmmm. If true, it means he now has a bit of LOVE coursing in his veins, to which he would certainly react as though to an allergen. But in OOTP, at the end it is the power within Harry, that Voldemort HATES, that ultimately prevents him from possessing Harry. So it seems unlikely to me that the blood transfer gave Voldemort any of what he hates.

[snogoddess]

That's an interesting point, but I still think the significance of the cut is the blood. In reply to the post where it is suggested that Voldemort now has some of "the power" from Harry in him...hmmm. If true, it means he now has a bit of LOVE coursing in his veins, to which he would certainly react as though to an allergen. But in OOTP, at the end it is the power within Harry, that Voldemort HATES, that ultimately prevents him from possessing Harry. So it seems unlikely to me that the blood transfer gave Voldemort any of what he hates.

...couldn't Voldemort have hated the overwhelming amount of love (the power) within Harry? he couldn't possess the latter because it somehow *destroys* him and his purpose...

[jasper]

Jasper, that is a good thought process, never looked at it that way. Good thinking. I do think that Harry will be pivotal in the overall plot because of his "muggle" heritage and that something will happen to dispell the whole "muggle" "mudblood" prejudice. Voldemort using Harry's blood to revive himself will be pivotal in his fall. (IMHO)

Having Harry's blood is likely to to be pivotal to his fall, as you say. Dumbledore being so happy about it seems like a big clue in that direction. If not the blood, there is still probably some part of that rebirthing that will be the mistake that brings him down.

But, if it's the muggle-ness or mudblood from Harry that causes Voldy the problem untimately, doesn't that shore up the mudblood prejudice?

[ultimate sacrifice]

I'm of the opinion that Harry's has exceptional magical ability coupled with the humilty fostered by his horrible growing up circumstances at the hands of muggle relatives.....that he "IS" the battleground, as my forum friend, Whizbang has said. I think that Harry will not only defeat Voldemort, but also he will bring together magical creatures, muggles and the wizarding world and this will establish a new order.

Voldemort's using Harry's blood will play out in the conclusion. I can't even venture to guess how JKR will do it. It will be spectacular and we will not be able to guess. The way that she will tie up the story surely will be something we could not have imagined or "figured out".