Was Dumbledore telling the truth?

[Tarawyn]

Dumbledore gave us a detailed description at the end of book 5, not only of why Voldemort went after Harry, but of his own opinion of Harry and presumably one of the things that was was tiring him out. This seems like a ridiculous question to ask, because he certainly looked and sounded truthful, and there's not much to contradict it, but something tells me to take this with a grain of salt. We know that Dumbledore isn't infallible now, and it might be far-fetched to think he's holding back or embellishing...but it might not be.

Thoughts? :)

[lanifiel]

I think that while Dumbledore told most of the truth there is still so many questions that are unanswered, there will be a time where everything is told but until then I think, as I'm sure Harry does, that Dumbledore is holding something back, something important.

Trust is a precious thing and Dumbledore has blown it for a bit if you ask me...

[Weatherby]

I agree with lanifiel.
He's holding back something I'm just not sure what it is.
Perhaps he doesn't even know himself what that is.

[dumbleedore]

I agree that DD knows more than he's letting on. He said himself that he should have told Harry 5 years ago, but if he is holding back, why would he do it again?

BTW, I thought it was very rude of Harry to trash DD's office. I accept that he was angry and upset, but, to take a leaf out of Hermione's book, HONESTLY!

[tabby]

I think he's told the truth in that everything he said is true. What he hasn't done is expanded on it and it can easily be expanded on.

[Pigwidgeon]

Originally posted by dumbleedore (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387668#post387668))

BTW, I thought it was very rude of Harry to trash DD's office. I accept that he was angry and upset, but, to take a leaf out of Hermione's book, HONESTLY!


Yes that actually confused me...I know he's different in this book and all, slightly more angry, but it still seems out of character, more something I would expect Ron to do.

[Moah]

Well I don't know... Harry is pretty upset at the time, he think it's all his fault, and he's quite angry at Dumbledore for avoiding him the whole time.
I found Dumbledore's explanation unsatisfactory for my part. Though I do enjoy seeing that all characters have flaw.

[Braden]

I definitly think that dumbledore is holding something back, which means Mr. Potter has more to learn in future books especially about girls

[Shadowfire76]

yeah I have to agree. I think Dumbledore told the truth about what he said but I think he may have left something out. Why I don't know.....seeing how if he had just told Harry about the prophecy 5 years ago Harry would have known Voldemort could be laying a trap for him with Sirius.

As for him trashing the office.......no it wasn't nice but I can understand why he did it. He was still in shock about the death of Sirius and didn't want to believe or hear what Dumbledore had to say. He had just lost his godfather whom he was developing a strong bond with.

[Anne]

I think if Dumbledore's holding something back, he's not doing it intentionally. It's possible that there's something he might not understand, but no, I don't think he's intentionally lying. I saw nothing to indicate that.

Though I do agree with lanifiel that Dumbledore may have blown a bit of the trust people so readily put in him. That's a shame.

[supernatural]

Dumbledores definately holding something back, he may be telling the truth, but that doesn't mean to say he's going to tell Harry everything.

Maybe there's a very good reason for it, like if he told Harry, he would be fearful that harry may become arrogant and put himself in even more danger (foolish boy mwahaha).

It did explain the whole keeping his distance thing, but there must be so much more to this...:banghead:

[Weatherby]

Dumbledore had his reasons. I still trust him.
But perhaps he was right to hide this from Harry? He should've kept him up-to-date some over the summer because Harry was alone but this "kill or die" is a tough message to handle. I think that was true. It's too harsh to be a lie.
Especially after Harry tried to use the crucio curse.

[Daily Propheter]

I agree that Harry's going to find it harder to trust Dumbledore after this. And even more so if he finds out that Dumbledore wasn't exactly telling the whole truth, which I'm not too sure he was. I think he has, be it consciously or unconsciously so, left something out in his explanation, though I think his exaplnation was completely truthful. Though we, and Harry, have a lot more information to chew over, there's probably something missing.

[mrpink]

Yeh, I agree with supernatural, there has to be something more to "the whole keeping his distance thing", but I don't have a clue what it could be!!! When's the next one out?!!

[Katze]

I think D is holding something back.

I think there's more to the "weapon" that we don't know, and I think there's a deeper connection between V and Harry that hasn't shown itself yet.

[crafty girl]

I felt like Dumbledore was skipping part of the prophecy as well...When he said that the prophecy was that one would have to kill the other, it just didn't seem like that big of a deal, you know? Like Voldemort's already after Harry, so what difference would that prophecy make. And when Trelawney was saying it, didn't she seem to trail off at the end before she was really finished?
I think that Dumbledore isn't telling Harry the whole story, because maybe Harry will have to do something horrible, or have something horrible happen, before he can kill Voldemort (though I personally couldn't imagine anything more horrible that Sirius dying...I'd have trashed the office, too.)

[Hawk 92]

Here's what I don't get at the end,

Dumbledore himself has said that it's choices that define who we are. So why does he believe in prophecies? The prophecy itself has a level of choice in it as there were 2 boys that could be chosen and Voldemort had to mark one. Voldemorte chose Harry over Neville.

So to me there must be something about this prophecy. Some way that Harry can figure out a way that it is not kill or be killed. I'm just not seeing it yet.

Cheers!

[HogwartsChaplain]

I think Dumbledore was telling the truth. In telling it, he admitted that his choice caused pain for Harry (and others), but choosing to tell him earlier would have caused other pain.

Opening up to Harry may go a long way to repairing the trust that was broken. Harry will come around, mature, move to a more adult-adult relationship with Dumbledore, which will be needed for Harry to function as a full member of the OotP, and that will be helpful in defeating Voldemort.

Opening up about Harry's need to know more also will mean that as Harry has more questions (especially about his family), it now will be possible for Harry to ask Dumbledore.

It also explains why Dumbledore expected to be Secret Keeper for James & Lily-- that was his role in the OotP.

[Tsar]

Hogwarts Chaplain I agree completely with ehat you have said. But I think Dumbledore is holding back something untill harry is able to complete his Occulmency training because we have seen how Voldemort was able to penetrate Harry because of his incomplete training and the nature of the link between them.

Perhaps it something to do with the weapon more powerful than the Avada Kedavara

[MadMagic]

There is always more to reveal. I think that we can look forward to more revalations in the future. Maybe something to build on the one made my Dumbledore in the end of this book. While Dumbledore seemed to regret not elling Harry everything sooner, I have to think that Dumbledore couldn't have told Harry "everything".

[Lestrange]

Will Dumbledore or Snape continue his Occulmency lessons? Because if it is Dumbledore, thats probably when we'll find out what he is holding back, if it is Snape, we'll see them "make up", I think.....

[Tankin]

Ok I think a few ppl haven't really read this book that thoroughly :/

1) The "weapon" in book 5 they referred to is the prophecy, for the prophecy had much information in it and Voldie needed that information, hell if he got his hands on it when he first tried to kill harry I doubt voldie would be in this mess :/ after all knowledge is power.....

2) Dumbledore didn't skip anything out of the Prophecy, he told harry straight out that it's "kill or be killed" this changes everything, Harry new he was special but only because he survived, he had no idea that the entire wizard world was relying on harry to live or die.....this will most likely bring JKR to focus on the topic of "death" alot more, I think that in book 6-7 harry will have to learn alot more about death, an eg of this is the veil......

3) Although I beleive DD told harry the entire prophecy, there is undoubtedly something he is keeping a secret from harry, because after each book we learn more and more about harry and well.....the reason he exsists more or less.......and harry just found out that the reason he exsists it to either be murdered or be a murderer, that isn't exactly the most joyous news :S

[Remus"Moony"Lupin]

Well, I agree that Dumbledore may be hiding something, but I'm more concerned about the whole "kill or be killed" thing. How would Harry kill Voldemort without Avada Kedavra? Well...I've thought about that magic that Harry has inside him, but how will he use it? Voldemort could also be pushed through the veil, but we'd have to find out more about it...
Also, Tankin...didn't they mention that the "weapon" is Harry? Because of the magic? And Voldemort could posses Harry and possibly use his magic as...well...a weapon...I don't know. I'm getting even more confused now.

[too_wicked]

I think Dumbledore was truly honest with Harry. But still, I think there are some important facts that he left out. About his parents maybe?
HP is just full of surprises.

[remus81]

I guess I feel a lot like Harry in that I believe everything Dumbledore says. He has held back at times, but he has never lied to Harry, and I don't believe he ever will. He said in PS/SS that he may not answer Harry's questions, but he would never lie to him. I think that was JKR saying that we as readers can trust what DD says at all times.

[Errol]

I have this burning question ever since i red the prophecy at the end of the book: If Harry kills Voldemort by means of the killing curse, won't he have to go to Azkaban? Or is there some special exception to killing Dark Wizards? Or is Lord Voldemort not considered a 'human being'?

[Puffskein]

I think Dumbledore has learned his lesson about hiding things from Harry out of care for him, although it might hurt others. It was a poignant scene to see his regret and fallibility. Still, there must be things Dumbledore knows that he hasn't told Harry yet (about his parents, for instance), and Harry might find out something not even Dumbledore knows.

[PeterDB204]

Originally posted by Hawk 92
Dumbledore himself has said that it's choices that define who we are. So why does he believe in prophecies? The prophecy itself has a level of choice in it as there were 2 boys that could be chosen and Voldemort had to mark one. Voldemorte chose Harry over Neville.

Cheers!


While there is some room for interpretation a prophecy is like a very complex equation coming to one answer, while some variables may change a real prophecy is basically seeing into the future working out the choices that have/will be made.

I think there is more to the story than Voldie giving Harry the scar, it involves Neville but I can't work out what it may be.

In the end, the prophecy goes on to say Harry will have a power and one must die because they both can't live. This is basically giving us a clue that Harry must use his power to defeat Voldie and at the moment we know very little of the power. BUT we know Harry has lost family members to Voldie, likes going to the rescue and is looking for revenge so it seems like Harry is the one the prophecy was made about. Unless, Neville pulls out a scar on his *** and defeats Voldie. :whistle:

[Raistlin_Majere]

ah you have to remember....Harry's no longer a young innocent lad but a angsty teen...how well I know...and I thought he was dumb to trash the office too. Ida tried to trash Dumbledore. Id get my @$$ kicked but Id try...or better yet Id burn the portraits...mwhehehehe
Also, you don't have to use avada kadrva to kill. You could use any unforgivable curse really. Or , here's a thought, maybe you can kill him in the Muggle way? I don't think anyones tried that...maybe that's how Harry beats him....by embracing his muggle side....

[PeterDB204]

Wouldn't it make sense that the story follows the line of Harry killing (if thats what happens) Voldie using his "power"??

[dan_r]

I still reckon there is stuff Dumbledore hasnt told Harry/us... not sure what i just think there is more to come

[vickygirl4]

I think he's evil and he's lying!

[tree guardian]

I think Dumbledore was telling the truth as much as he said but it was has been left unsaid that bothers me.

Also I have a query.

I read the prophecy, but I don't see where the "knowledge to destroy" Harry even comes up. What's the deal?

Unfortuanately I've a minute thought just came to me and now I feel ill.

Harry can destroy Voldemort with love...right. What if Voldemort can destory Harry with hate. Remember Harry said he can't kill that he he felt he didn't have the ability...but what would happen if he could or did? We know in the end he is the only one who can destroy Voldemort, which is not cold blooded murder, full stop.

However what if Harry were manipulated ro destraught enough emotionally and mentally to straight up take someone out? Yeesh!

Oh dear. :sorry:

[Wakkachuta]

Of course there is no doubt that what Dumbledore said is the truth, as he said himself at the end of book 4 that he prefers to tell the truth than to lie, but he can still omit things.

I'd say he probably isn't telling Harry everything, but he's probably told him a lot.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by dumbleedore (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387668#post387668))
I agree that DD knows more than he's letting on. He said himself that he should have told Harry 5 years ago, but if he is holding back, why would he do it again?

BTW, I thought it was very rude of Harry to trash DD's office. I accept that he was angry and upset, but, to take a leaf out of Hermione's book, HONESTLY!


Yeah, I think Harry was acting out a lot. Too much, in fact. JKR really wanted to impress his frustration on us and, okay, I got the picture.

And I agree that Dumbledore hasn't told Harry the half of what's going on, past or present. Did he only answer Harry's most immediate questions?

And the prophecy is very confusing, isn't it? Even Harry wasn't sure what it meant. I'm still trying to work it out.

[Filia Tenebrarum]

whizbang121, I agree the prophecy was complicated. I've sort of got a feeling for what it meant but I'd have trouble spelling it out.

As for whether Dumbledore was holding anything back, I'm sure he wasn't. I think as far as the whole prophecy/scar/wand-core etc thing was concerned Dumbledore really has told Harry everything. I'm sure there's something we don't know about Harry's eyes, but either that was so unconected Dumbledore didn't think to tell Harry then, or Dumbledore doesn't know. I just can't see Dumbledore hiding anything else after he saw what damage his hiding things from Harry caused last time.

"I read the prophecy, but I don't see where the "knowledge to destroy" Harry even comes up. What's the deal?"
I think (I'm not sure, either) that Voldemort thought the rest of the prophecy would explain, to put it one way, where he went wrong last time. In other words, he thought the prophecy would tell him how to kill Harry and why he wasn't able to before. I'm not sure the prophecy actually does fully answer that question, but Voldemort clearly thought it would.

vickygirl14, if you insist on making venemous and groundless accusations then please back them up a bit.

[FredRocksMySocks]

I don't know about DD embelishing like that. Admitting that he has made mistakes that have had serious reprocations seems to have greatly upset it. He even cried! I don't know if we should take this lightly at all, DD seems to be very upset over it because it is very important. I can't see JKR changing that around or anything.

[Joshman687]

I dont think Dumbledore would lie, I hold him in high esteem as most people i would imagine do. I do think that he might not be telling harry everything but is telling him on a need to know basis

[Capella]

I think Dumbledore was telling Harry the truth. He does not lie. But I do think he's held a lot back. There has to be more revelations to come; there's another 2 books worth of surprises left.

I think it's possible that Dumbledore held things back because he thought Harry had learnt enough for one day - the prophecy would have been pretty hard to take in and any further shocks may have been too much for Harry to deal with.
Or maybe Dumbledore doesn't actually know any more than what he's told Harry... and Harry will have to find out the rest himself.

[hermeeownninny]

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=387775#post387775))
Yes that actually confused me...I know he's different in this book and all, slightly more angry, but it still seems out of character, more something I would expect Ron to do.


No, it isn't. Harry is pissed off- he wanted answers this whole book and no one gave him any. I was mad at Dumbledore too- Harry has gone through hell his whole life and no one has ever told him why. And I don't think Harry changed at all, really- remember his anger at Sirius in the Shrieking Shack? Remember how nasty he was to Ron in book 4? Harry's always had the anger, he is just expressing it more now.

I don't think Dumbledore was lying; there probably is more, but the reason Dumbledore didn't tell Harry before is the reason he's not telling him now. Too much to swallow all at one time. What surprises me is that Harry doesn't ask more questions.

[kfingers]

I think DD holds back a lot. One I think he is old and wise and is the only one who can truly hold all his knowledge without falling apart. I think he gave Harry as much as could handle at the end of book five, and for a fifteen/sixteen year old, it is a lot. One of DD's most important skills is helping to develop others, and as Rowling said, he believes in "all kinds of education" (referring to Harry and Snape). Harry and his friends would not be nearly as advanced skill wise and emotionally if DD did not let them learn a lot of things the hard way or on their own. Maybe.

[whizbang121]

but the reason Dumbledore didn't tell Harry before is the reason he's not telling him now. Too much to swallow all at one time.

I think it's also important to remember that Dumbledore is not sure how much access Voldemort has to Harry's mind. No sense putting anything in there that might actually be useful to the Dark Lord, or that he might be tortured for.

[Joshman687]

I disagree. I think that Dumbledore knows alot more than is revealed. Besides the dark lord, Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard on earth. He was also one of the main leaders during the dark lords first reign of terror. Tom Riddle was one of his students while he was head master. He knew VOldermort all his life and i think that Dumbledore knows more than anybody else about Voldermorts powers. If Dumbeldore is withholding information, he is doing it for alternative reasons.

[FredRocksMySocks]

I think Whiz is on the right track, if he was leery about giving this info him, he's not going to want to dump any more info on him that isn't necessary. More secrets will come in time, I am sure. But to call DD dishonest because of it--nah!

[kfingers]

I think we are meant to think that DD's wisdom is infallible. But I think if he knew as much as some of you think he does, then he would be infallible and Riddle would be toast. I think DD suspects a lot because he is immensely clever and his knowledge is vast, but I'm not sure what you guys are agreeing or disagreeing on because it looks like everyone is saying that DD knows more than he has said and does not want to tell Harry too much at one time b/c it would be more than any young man could handle. Dont we all agree then? (except for the people who against all logic say he is evil)

[FredRocksMySocks]

heh, yeah K we're all agreed on that--it is getting a bit confusing, isn't it?
;) he's so evil, isn't he this DD!

[Jessica]

From the COS DVD as transcribed by MuggleNet

JKR:
Very true, I find that all the time in the books, if you need to tell the readers something just put it in her. There's really only two characters that you can put it convincingly into their dialogue: One is Hermione, the other one is Dumbledore. In both cases you accept, it's plausible that they have, well Dumbledore knows pretty much everything that's going on anyway... but with Hermione that she read it in a book. She's really handy that way.


Does Dumbledore speak for you?

JKR:
OH yes, very much so. Dumbledore often speaks for me.




With this as a given I do not think that Dumbledore would lie to Harry. That would be the equivelent of JKR lying to US. So I will buy that he is not telling Harry "everything" as he promised to do, but not that he is actively lying to us.

[Bhodi]

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=387775#post387775))
Yes that actually confused me...I know he's different in this book and all, slightly more angry, but it still seems out of character, more something I would expect Ron to do.


Actually, I thought JK's treatment of Harry throughout the book was very refreshing, and found this to be entirely consistent... He's a 15-year-old boy, and he's clearly going through puberty... He clearly has so many hormones raging through his changing body, and one effect is the wild mood swings and short temper he experiences throughout the book... Given the effects of the biochemistry at work in his body, the terrifying battle with around a dozen Death Eaters [after leading his friends into mortal danger chasing a red herring, which made him feel like an idiot as well], the culmination of all the year's stresses at Hogwarts, AND having just witnessed the death of his guardian--the one person that represented true family to Harry and a definitive link to his dead parents--I'd say it's not strange at all to see Harry go on a rampage and break a few things...

[FredRocksMySocks]

Good find jess!! Thank you for that one! Didn't she also say in a more recent interview that DD was the epitomy of goodness..I don't think that the epitomy of goodness would lie lol, he might be leaving things out, but for the greater good.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by kfingers (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=439249#post439249))
I think we are meant to think that DD's wisdom is infallible. But I think if he knew as much as some of you think he does, then he would be infallible and Riddle would be toast. I think DD suspects a lot because he is immensely clever and his knowledge is vast, but I'm not sure what you guys are agreeing or disagreeing on because it looks like everyone is saying that DD knows more than he has said and does not want to tell Harry too much at one time b/c it would be more than any young man could handle. Dont we all agree then? (except for the people who against all logic say he is evil)


I disagree. Dumbledore explains to Harry that keeping things from him in the first place was a misjudgement.

Actually, I agree that when Harry was eleven or twelve, even thirteen it was probably better that he didn't know what he was up against. But he's ready now.

I don't think it's Harry that Dumbledore is keeping information from.

Joshman,
You make some good points about Dumbledore knowledge of Voldemort. So, perhaps he can't tell Harry everything because he knows exactly what Voldemort is capable of, and chooses not to risk it. What Harry needs to do is calm down and trust Dumbledore.

[kfingers]

There were things that Harry needed to know, that DD should have told him, like what he did. That doesn't mean DD should share everything he speculates about twenty four hours a day. What are we disagreeing on by the way?

[whizbang121]

Well, I think we agree that Dumbledore didn't tell Harry everything. Now we are disagreeing about why or whether Dumbledore is right to hold anything back.

[Jemynye]

I believe that Dumbledore was completely honest with Harry about the prophecy. Of course additional facts about the prophecy will come out in future books but I don't think it will be because Dumbledore was deliberately withholding information.

Dumbledore is very wise and loves Harry and tried to protect him. I agree with and understand the choices that he made concerning Harry. Well except, I was disappointed (even though I understand his reasoning) when Dumbledore distanced himself from Harry because I know that was confusing and hurtful for Harry. Also, I was disappointed with how Harry treated Dumbledore as far as the profanity, yelling, and breaking things.

[Ecthelion]

Dumbledore probably told the truth in all he said, except the "all" was only part. Despite, him stating the very problem, bonding with Harry to much, I think he still continues to do it. Think about it, looking at Harry in the right state he was in after Sirius' death and the horrible overwhelming guilt and pain reflecting on his face.....would you tell him something that would make him even more distressed. Given, him telling Harry that he has to defeat Voldemort in the end, or be killed, isn't your uplifting spirit kinda comment, but there was probably something else that would make that comment much worse.....and Dumbledore withheld it once again, because of his over-affection for Harry.

I certainly hope we get all of the facts in the Sixth book, as the prophecy itself raised much more questions than it answered.

[whizbang121]

"... neither can live while the other survives"

And yet it seems they do both live.:??:

[Sinistra]

Dumbledore is not perfect ... oh horrors!!!!!!

OK, He told Harry about the prophecy, but Harry has really known it's him or Voldemort since the end of the first book. Voldemort wants to kill Harry, and Harry doesn't want to be killed, and Harry is smart enough to know Voldemort will not rest until Harry's dead.

There are still a lot of things Harry needs to know:
1) What about Lily's eyes?
2) Where is Godrick's Hollow?
3) Where did James get his fortune?
4) What occupation did his parents follow?
5) Where was he for the missing 24 hours between Voldemort's "demise" and Harry arriving at Privet Drive?

And many others. Dumbledore told Harry about the prophecy, but not the rest of it, and for once Harry didn't think of all the other questions he may have had.

[whizbang121]

Uh ... I have a question .... or two.

What is the power Harry has that Voldemort doesn't?
Why did Voldemort get a wand with a Fawkes feather in the core?
What is the significance of Harry having the "brother" wand?
What is the ancient charm Lily used to save Harry?
What are the details of Harry's ancestry?
What is Dumbledore's part in all this?
What did Dumbledore mean by "in essence divided"?
What is Dumbledore's connection to Harry?
What is the arch and veil in the dept of mysteries where Sirius was lost?

[Jessica]

Whizbang, don't forget the most important question of all:

WHEN ARE WE GETTING BOOK SIX????

[Oo bUMbLE bEE oO]

Dumbledore never admitted to lie to Harry before so I don't think he ever means to lie. I mean, usually he just doesn't say anything about it. As for holding back, I think he's holding back about telling Harry about his mother and father.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by jessicacarstens (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=442256#post442256))
Whizbang, don't forget the most important question of all:

WHEN ARE WE GETTING BOOK SIX????


Make a nice pot of tea and pull up some fanfic. We've got a long way to go.:smile:

[Spirit]

I don't think that Dumbledore was lying at all, but I think he might be holding back on something smaller. Not anything large or something Harry absolutely has to know about right now. He wouldn't make the same mistake again.

Oh, and I want to answer your questions (well, what I think), whizbang, because I'm bored. ;)
1. I think it's something to do with love, or love itself, like a lot of other people think.
2. No idea.
3. I think that it has something to do with the fact that Harry has so much in common with Tom Riddle/Voldemort.
4. No idea.
5. No idea, but he's most likely related to the Gryffindor, like people are saying.
6. I think Dumbledore's part in the whole series is the mentor and kind of like a protector.
7. Oh, I heard this good theory that Dumbledore was checking to see if Harry and Voldemort were still two seperate people, like Voldemort was posessing Harry to the extent that he wasn't in control of his actions or something.
8. I don't think he's related to him or anything. I think that he was kind put into the role of making sure the prophecy went out the good way with Harry winning.
9. No idea.

[Lupin_Lady]

Make a nice pot of tea and pull up some fanfic. We've got a long way to go.:smile:


I can't wait that long! I need it now!!!

But seriously, DD didn't really lie to Harry, he simply avoided telling him the essentail things. Hopefully books 6&7 will clear it all up so we aren't left hanging like we are now... :upset:

[Dumbledores Sis]

Ok Dumbledore knows alot.
He knows alot alot, but what is it that he has yet to tell Harry?

There is something more that Hary is yet to know but what is it?

[Witflick]

He probably has an idea of how Harry can defeat Voldemort, but either a) wants more time to develop his theory before sharing it or b) thinks Harry needs to figure it out for himself. I don't think he's holding back any information that's necessary for Harry to know right now. There will probably be more revelations throughout the books, as Dumbledore always seems to be there to explain things.

Another thread I found with searching, Was Dumbledore telling the truth? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11240), may also provide some answers. :)

[Dominor4]

Dumbledore isn't hiding anything else. In book 5 he said he was going to tell Harry "everything", which is exactly what I think he did.

[LilyEvans]

Quite true. But I think he has theories that he is not willing to share just yet - possibly he is still formulating them....for example the 'in essence divided' comment. And it's A LOT, not alot. Alot is not a word, thank you. Interesting thread. Dumbledore will, until he dies, and possibly after, be a source of inspiration, not to mention information, to Harry.

[Dumbledores Sis]

Hey, all very interesting, did Dumbledore tell Harry everything. Well he might have, is it just that he needs more time before he shares his thoughts of defeating Voldemort. I honestly don't know, but in the back of my mind i just feel that he's sitting on vital information.

[Prof.Blink]

I think DD knows a whole lot more than he is letting on.

There is the whole 'Look of Triumph' that needs to be explained yet for a start.

The 'in essence divided' bit as mentioned above by LilyEvans.

The one thing that bugs me is his role in Ootp. What is it that made DD suddenly realise that LV might be using Harry as a means to spy on DD? What changed after cedric's death that now meant harry shouldn't be informed about anything? Yeah, so he had the odd twinge of his scar in Gof, but all the funny dreams happened in Ootp didn't they? Well, all apart from the one about Riddle House, but DD didn't know about that anyway because Harry never told anyone but Ron and Hermoine. Remember, LV didn't even know that connection existed until the night Arthur was attacked, so why did DD suddenly think this would be an issue now?

Is it a coincidence that so far all of his hunches in regards to Harry have turned out correct? For example, LV using his connection with Harry, LV wanting the prophecy, Snape being decent (well, for now anyway), Kreacher being potentially dangerous to the order etc.

What is the deal he has with the dursley's? Why would they want to keep him? what's in it for them?

Where did he go when Umbridge replaced him as Head of the school? What was more important at that time than assisting the Order further with their work at headquarters?

Does he know about any other prophecies? In the DoM, we saw other prophecies being smashed, some of which could be vaguely connected to the Harry and LV situation. Are there any more that he knows about?

Oh, and there is Snape. Just tell us why you trust him DD!!!!!!!!!!

Well, as you can see, there are sooooo many questions i want answered in regard to DD.

Jo, i hope your reading this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sigh:

[Dumbledores Sis]

Hiya Prof Blink, i totaly agree with you, thats why i started this. Many people believe he has shared all with Harry but i feel there is more to it, there are so many questions, most of which i fear will never be answered. With regard to his trust in Snape, i feel that very soon we will know

[Revolution]

What is the deal he has with the dursley's? Why would they want to keep him? what's in it for them?

In the beginning the Dursley's must have kept him, because they were afraid something terrible would happen to them otherwise. But in OotP, they finally want to send him out. But Petunia gets a howler, so there must be something about that, that we're yet to find out.

Where did he go when Umbridge replaced him as Head of the school? What was more important at that time than assisting the Order further with their work at headquarters?

I think he hid out in the mountains, but he did do work for the order I think...

Does he know about any other prophecies? In the DoM, we saw other prophecies being smashed, some of which could be vaguely connected to the Harry and LV situation. Are there any more that he knows about?

Well, he is a powerful wizard, so he must know about some of the other prophecies.

Oh, and there is Snape. Just tell us why you trust him DD!!!!!!!!!!

Snape turned good, and he's been doing good work for the Order, so I can understand Dumbledore trusting him. Just because he's rotten to the students(except for Slytherin of course), doesn't mean he's evil anymore. Though I think that Dumbledore is the only one Snape is loyal to. And perhaps some other people placed higher than him. But other wise, you can't trust the man.

[DarkLordNev]

I won't to know what the potters and longbottems did to Defy the Dark lord three time. What the Potters did for a living. And Off Topic some If snape turned spy before the War ended how come he didn't know Wormtail was a spy. Or Why didn't he warned DD that Tom was going for the Potters?

[Mental2k]

Prof.Blink, I think the "in essence divided" was a reference to the fact that Harry was seeing through the eyes ov LV and the eyes of the snake. They were one being at the time, but in essence divided,as in both of them were in the being If you get what I mean.

I reckon DD knows more about Harry's heritage than he lets on, perhaps even as much as being an extended family member of Harry's like a great uncle or something, just an idea, but I think there may be more to the HP/DD relationship that DD is currently hinting to.

I also think Dumbledore may be a bit of a seer, he seems to be able to do everything else, perhaps he himself has made prophecies about things. I know there is no real proof for this, but sometimes it comes across he can know things before they happen, as prof.blink also said.

[Stephen]

I think Dumbledore told "everything [he] knows" to Harry... in a way.

I believe he told Harry everything he knew was certain. I'm sure there's stuff he thinks will happen or needs to happen, but he's not entirely sure about it yet. Yeah, we'll learn more later.

[giantsquid28]

Dumbledore isn't hiding anything else. In book 5 he said he was going to tell Harry "everything", which is exactly what I think he did.


Didn't DD say he was going to tell him everything he should have told him five years ago? I took that to mean that there is still stuff that he is hiding from Harry for some reason or another.

[hermy_weasley2]

When Dumbledore says he's going to tell Harry everything he should've told him five years ago, I think he means that what he's telling Harry there is all the boy needs to know, or at least in Dumbledore's opinion. So, Dumbledore probably knows more than he's telling about a lot of things. Dumbledore's full of secrets, but he did tell Harry that when he was old enough he would know everything. We can hope that "old enough" is seventeen or under so we can learn too.:D

:welcome: to CoS Stephen, Mental2k and Dumbledores Sis!

[Da_Chinkster]

Im sure Harry will learn everything byt he time the book finishes. DD I think has a lot more to tell Harry but doesnt want to overload him with it all at once.

[aliceband]

This is something that i brought up in the thread the piont of sirius. In the chapters after sirius dies NOBODY uses the word dead in reference to sirius except harry except in this case: OoP Chapter 37 page 826 U.S.
" Am I to understand," said Phinieas Nigellus slowly from Harry's left, "that my freat-great-grandson -- the last of the Black's -- is dead?"
"Yes, Phineas," said Dumbldore
Now i may be mistaken but this seems to be very odd that this is the only other place were the word dead is used in reference to Sirius besides when harry uses it. ?? There is obviously some questions that need answering in the next book in regards to Sirius' death. Now in my opinion Sirious is not dead (read my reply in the point of Sirius for more info on Why i think this and you can email me at acs_nightingale@hotmail.com and chat with me on AIM my screen name is acs nuvo) so this quotw up above would be a good example of a time were Dumbledore is lying or omitting sertain detail wich is the most likely!! But all in all i doubt that Dumbledore would ever lie to Harry. Of course he would omit sertain things b/c all people who feel responsable over another person's life does parents, teachers, etc...

[Dagmar]

Well JKR has said herself that Sirius is dead and is not coming back.
I agree though that his death left us with a lot of questions. I too hope she will tie up those loose ends in the next book.
Perhaps, Sirius like James and Lilly, can still communicate with Harry.
Did Dumbledore leave something out of his explanation? Probably, he admitted to Harry that he had left out some information concerning him and the prophecy, so why not now.
I'm sure that the prophecy being fulfilled will run parallel to the beginning book in the sorting hat scene. Harry chose to be in Gryffindor, even though the hat would have put him in Slytherin. Dumbledore assures Harry that it is actions that make up your experience. So maybe Harry will come to this conclusion with regards to the prophecy.

[Codemastar]

I think Dumbledore was telling the complete truth of everything Harry needed to and should have known. The fact that Dumbledore got emotional enough to have a teardrop fall down his cheek shows that he meant it, truthfully and emotionally. And while I don't think Dumbledore told him EVERYTHING about the war, he told him what he needed to know till the end of the series. Harry knowing the COMPLETE prophecy now makes him more knowledgeable than any other person about why Voldemort went after Harry in the first place.

And after that emotional-tear-causing scene by Dumbledore, I don't think he'd want to hold back any more information from Harry, because I'm sure he knows that he lost a large ammount of Harry's trust by not telling him the truth in the first place. If you're questioning the possible falsehood in Dumbledore's words, I don't think he would lie. Lieing would only worse his currently unstable grounds with Harry. So, no, I don't think Dumbledore had any other intent but to tell the complete and honest truth to Harry.

[GryffindorSeeker]

I don't think DD lied, but I'm positive he didn't tell Harry everything. There are things Harry probably should learn on his own, and there are things he shouldn't here when he first finds out. The shock of the prophecy's enough for one talk.

[aliceband]

Oh, she has said that oh well i haven't had a chance to be involved with harry potter as much this last year so i didn't know But last summer i had some elaborate descussions with my cusin about HP and we discussed the situation. I mean i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't come back but i'm usually the fool with hope. But do read into how humans deal with death and the fact that sirius fell through a curtain just leaves too many Questions right now!!! ya know it feels like all these horrible things that happen to harry are obsacles that don't allow him to live but isn't that what the prophecy says neither can live while the other survives. (gosh i got all teary eyed while i was look through to find the prophecy and i came across the part where lupin is holding harry back page 807 U.S. version " HE -- IS -- NOT -- DEAD!" roared Harry. It's a powerful moment for the books. OoP is such a mediator between harry as a child and then this book and now they are going to show how he has handled his tradgedy of a life)

[aliceband]

My last message was in regards to Dagmar

[Revolution]

But it could be also that Dumbledore doesn't know everything. There might be some things he doesn't know of. That Harry would have to find out for himself.

[aliceband]

That is possible he could either not know something or not allow himself to accept his knowledge thus not acting upon it. But this all sounds very un-Dumbledore like to me. He wouldn't just let something go so never mind. I'm sure there are things he doesn't know. I think he even mentions something like this at the end of book one when harry is in the hostpital after saving the stone. you'de have to correct me if i'm mistaken.

[jen15poms]

As much as I try to ignore the crazy theories floating around in these forums, I find that they have started to affect my judgement...especially where Dumbledore is concerned. At the end of GoF, when Harry is telling Dumbledore how Voldemort got his body back, Harry thinks that he sees "someting like triumph" in Dumbledore's eyes. When he looked back, he was sure that he had imagined it. I just cannot get that quote out of my mind! I think that Dumbledore is hiding something...I'm just not sure what it could be...

[Noorani]

I don't think Dumbledore lied, but it is possible that he just left out some more information. The thing that really gets me is that I reckon Dumbledore only told Harry about the prophesy in book 5 because of Sirius' death and because of Voldemort entering Harry's mind and tricking him into going into the DoM. Dumbledore is, whatever way you look at it, partly responsible for Sirius' death because if he had been honest aobut the prophecy in the DoM then Harry would have assumed something was up when he saw Sirius being tortured by Voldy and wouldn't have gone after him. I wonder if Sirius hadn't died would Dumbledore have told Harry everything in OotP? Or would he have left it even longer? My trust in Dumbledore is cetainly shaken.

As far as the 'glint of something that looked like triumph' thing goes, (and apologies because I've heard this theory from somewhere before and can't find where) I think the glint of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes was because Voldy was given Harry's blood so that he could live again. Remember in PS/SS Hagrid said some believed there wasn't enough human left in him to die? Now Voldemort has Harry's blood, maybe now there IS enough human in him to die.... :eyebrows:

[sawbone77]

Yes, I think he did, Although like many others has mentioned I do think Dumbledore feels there is more but he does not know all the details yet.

[Silkeng]

I agree was surprised by the almost humanness of Dumbledore at the end of book five, he had made a mistake, I had come to think of him as the man with all the answers. He seemed human who made a mistake, and that with Harry's actions led to Sirius's death. It was also a bit refreshing to see him have problems. Gave his character more depth. I don't think Dumbledore would ever lie to Harry, he would withhold information if he thought it was necessary. I don't think he would have told Harry at all if Sirius hadn't died. There may be more to the story, but I do not believe Dumbledore lied or has ever lied to Harry.

[harripottrfreek]

I always think Dumbledore holds back important information when he needs to say it. Harry should have known about the prophecy way before this...not in his 1st year, but by his third year I think he should have known. There are so many questions that can lead to so many things. I think Harry is old enough and has been through enough to deserve to hear everything now. It's time for Dumbledore to let Harry know everything.

[Selene Sedai]

This thread is for discusion about Dumbledore's explanation for "everything" at the end of OOTP and what we might draw from it that may or may not play a role in future books. Happy posting! :)

If interested, below is my speculation:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During Dumbledore's explanation he tells harry about the charm Dumbledore put on Harry in order to ensure that Lilly's sacrifice gave Harry protection.

How could he have placed this suposed charm on baby Harry when it was Hagrid who brought Harry to number 4 privet drive? Dumbledore who knows from the prophecy that he is vulnerable to Voldemort.. was probably in hiding and not in Godric's Hollow at all.

We know that in the first/beginning scene at Privet Drive that Dumbledore did not use his wand to cast any spell let alone, charm, on Harry... he did not even bother to take out his wand!

There is no other time where Dumbledore could have placed a charm on Harry Potter that would later be sealed by Harry's having to live with his mother's sister.

Yes, we could say that the charm was placed while they where not in each other's presence, but distance effects magic.

Note: Harry learns this while he uses the Accio spell in one of the tasks of the Triwizard Tournament to summon his broom (GOF)

Another thing, why would Dumbledore place a protective charm on Harry when it runs the risk of affecting Voldemort as well? As in protecting Voldemort? What is the point of using such a charm in the first place?

[dinkime]

If Dumbledore had put a protecting charm on Harry, he most likely would have done so BEFORE that Halloween night - perhaps at the baptism, if not right at birth.

[Selene Sedai]

If Dumbledore had put a protecting charm on Harry, he most likely would have done so BEFORE that Halloween night - perhaps at the baptism, if not right at birth.

But how did he know Lilly Potter was going to die?

Yes, he may have assumed that Voldemort might find out about the prophecy and go after the Potters.. but at that point he'd never even heard the prophecy!

[Barbara Kennedy]

Perhaps this thread can help?

Was Dumbledore telling the truth? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11240)

[brokenglasses]

We asumed Dumbledore told Harry "everything" at the end of OOTP, but did he!?


You assumed Dumbledore told Harry everything? :huh: That wouldn't be wise would it? I didn't assume that at all. The general never tells his soliders everything. Dumbledore tells Harry more, but not all.

[Paul Potter]

well basically voldemort can still read harrys thoughts, so why would DD say everything to him, basically that it may be something that LV doesnt know, something that if he did know then LV may finf an easy way to kill harry or something about DD's weakness or hogwarts etc... but thats what im thinking

[Selene Sedai]

And as for placing the charm before the fateful night, but after he's heard the prophecy...

remember that one of Voldemort's agents (DE's) heard the prophecy.. ran strait to voldemort.. and then voldemort immediately attacked the Potters... because if you'll remember.. he didn't have time to spot the the possible disatriouse result of this attack.

You assumed Dumbledore told Harry everything? :huh: That wouldn't be wise would it? I didn't assume that at all. The general never tells his soliders everything. Dumbledore tells Harry more, but not all.

No actually i didn't ... the first time through i was more trusting.. but then the second i was looking for clues soooo...

good point though.

Ideas anyone!!!???

Perhaps this thread can help?

Was Dumbledore telling the truth? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11240)
Thanx Barbara!

[DocHollidaywe]

First of all, I do not think Dumbledore would ever hide from Voldemort. This is part of the reason Voldemort fears Dumbledore, because Dumbledore does not fear him! No I never could see Dumbledore hiding from him. After all he went after Voldemort in Order of the Phoenix. He could have stayed in the Department of Mysteries if he were afraid of dying.

Second of all, perhaps the charm was placed on the Dursley's house. Or perhaps the charm was placed on the letter he left with Petunia, and upon opening it and reading it the charm was activated.

Just because we do not see everything does not mean it did not happen. There are a number of ways thing could have happened.

[Selene Sedai]

Then why did Dumbledore leave in SS when Voldemort came to Hogwarts? He got a letter from the Ministry, yes, but... wouldn't he have known that the Ministry wouldn't boot him out of the Headmaster post?

Was he just being kind to Lucius or was he a little afraid of Voldemort's appearance at Hogwarts?

He can't be completely unafraid of death.

Dumbledore dueled Voldemort in OOTP to protect Harry. He knows that Harry's life is more important than his own, because Harry is the only one who can kill Voldy due to the prophecy. And if that wasn't true, Dumbledore would have had Voldy dead a long time ago.

but please don't take my word for it.

anyone else have any ideas?

[xXx]

is dumbledore hiding something?

ofcourse he does! every character is hiding something...

[dinkime]

But how did he know Lilly Potter was going to die?

Yes, he may have assumed that Voldemort might find out about the prophecy and go after the Potters.. but at that point he'd never even heard the prophecy!


her death was not the issue, protecting him as a part of the prophesy is what mattered, and her death is not an issue for that...dumbledore had heard the prophesy -- he is the one who heard it when it first occured -- there may also be a protective charm on neville since it could also fit him (BEFORE the scar was left)...voldemort has still not heard the entire prophesy...

[subtle science]

For a long while I and my Potter-addicted friends have discussed the idea that the events of PS/SS were pretty much engineered by Dumbledore. He may not have scripted it all, point by point, but the general idea was one that he instigated: suspecting that Voldemort was on the rise again, flushing him out, and testing Harry's abilities. It would mean that Dumbledore initially saw Harry primarily as a tool to defeat Voldemort, but, as he says in OotP, that he gradually came to care for Harry. It would help explain why he did nothing about Quirrell--because, in fact, he WASN'T doing nothing; it would even explain Snape's strikingly perceptive suspicions of Quirrell: as Dumbledore's right hand man, Snape would be privy to the Headmaster's own suspicions and carrying out his end of the assignment.

This actually does connect to the thread topic, believe it or not! I do believe that Dumbledore was telling the truth at the end of OotP, but--as was pointed out earlier in this thread--he told Harry he was going to tell him what should have been revealed five years ago. Dumbledore doesn't lie, but he does speak very precisely (totally off topic, but so does his protege, Snape). Dumbledore mentions more than once in "The Lost Prophecy" chapter that he is very old; he acknowledges that his age may have caused him to make errors of judgment, in that he felt too distanced in years to understand/evaluate fully the effects on younger characters...but, on the flip side, his age also gives him a perspective that the younger ones can't have. He knows more presently than any other character; he also knows more from the past: he holds more threads in his hands, I think, than has fully been revealed in the novels.

So--boiling it down: at that moment, Dumbledore told the truth. However, there is still much more going on than Harry is aware of; he's only gotten the first piece of a complicated puzzle.

[SquibOnline]

He might be holding back certain details but I think he has given most of the facts to Harry

[enchantedgerbil]

I think Dumbledore was telling the full truth. I can't explain why, but that's what I got out of it when I read it. It just seems like he wouldn't have a reason to hold any information back from Harry any longer.

[Sprout1962]

I believe Dumbledore tells the truth in all situations. The question is, does he tell the entire truth? I don't think so. I believe he tells the others just what they need to know at that given time. Sometimes, too much information is worse than nothing at all. Anyone who has ever given a complicated answer to a 3-year old knows what I mean :)

As the series progresses and finally ends (gulp!), we (along with Harry) will learn more of the truth.