CoSForums Archive - Heir To Gryffindor

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Raven

June 23rd, 2003, 6:25 pm

Jerkwater

June 23rd, 2003, 6:43 pm

I guess it's possible, but I never took that "only a true Gryffindor" line to mean as much as everyone else seems to. I think it was more to set Harry's (and the reader's) mind at ease, since Harry had been worrying about the Sorting Hat almost putting him in Slytherin.

I don't think the theory is any less valid just because it wasn't mentioned in Book 5, but I never really got into that one anyway.

hardnut

June 23rd, 2003, 6:48 pm

Just noticed arfter reading this brick sized book that there was no mention of Harry/James/Dumbledore being the heir of Gryffindor,

Do you feel that JK will ever bring this to light or just one of her many 'red herring's she put in to keep us guessing if that Harry was gonna learn that he was the heir or something?

Silver Phoenix

June 23rd, 2003, 6:51 pm

I myself believe that the heir thing has already played out. I don't think there will be anymore plot refrences to the whole heir thing. One reason being, we now know that there /are/ other schools for wizards, it doens't just revolve around Hogwarts. Also, we only have 2 more books to go, if it was going to be a major thing, I think we would have heard a little something about it at least.

crafty girl

June 23rd, 2003, 6:52 pm

I, personally, never bought the theory that Harry was the heir of anything...But it's possible that there was something in the prophecy about it (because I don't think all of the prophecy has been revealed yet).

chow mein

June 23rd, 2003, 6:53 pm

I think that we'll find out about the "heirs" later. The scene with Sirius pointing out his family tree - and showing his relations to the Malfoys and the Weasleys - makes me believe that JK put that in there so we don't completely dismiss the "heirs" idea.

Aldawen

June 23rd, 2003, 7:03 pm

I think we can pretty much rule out the Heir theory at this point. I don't see it coming into play again.

~BrandyTook~

June 23rd, 2003, 7:12 pm

I was always a bit unsure about the whole heir theory. Especially about Lily being the heir of Slytherin. I never believed that one. I'm still unsure about the heir thing. It could possibly happen, but there really hasn't been anything pointing to it until thins point. The only thing would be Harry getting the sword out of the hat in CoS. Dumbledore said "only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat." It could be taken that only one who had the true bravery and courage of a Gryiffindor could pull it out. It could also be taken that only a true heir to Gryffindor could pull it out. I'm unsure about it, but I doubt it will happen.

Rounded Buddha

June 23rd, 2003, 7:24 pm

I don't think the full implications of the prophecy has been revealed

doctor23

June 23rd, 2003, 9:20 pm

I never like the theory anyway just because Slytherin had an heir dosen't mean the rest of them have too. But to answer the question yes I think OOtP compleatly took that theory out of the running.

Nickel

June 24th, 2003, 3:29 am

I never felt that the heir theory held much water. It seemed, well, too easy. I know it was popular, but it didn't seem very JKRish. I think the family tree was just there to show how Sirius was related to these people and that most pure bloods are related, which reinforced what someone said earlier in one of the other books about how if they didn't marry muggles the wizards would have eventually died out.

Qeomash

June 24th, 2003, 3:39 am

Now that we know why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry, I don't believe the Heir Theory anymore. Harry is the rival of Voldemort, nothing more and nothing less.

Picko

June 24th, 2003, 8:58 am

I think it's highly unlikely now, which I'm pleased about because the theory stunk in the first place.

You-Know-Who

June 24th, 2003, 9:15 am

I have to agree with Picko, that theory did stunk big time.

Loz

June 24th, 2003, 9:46 am

It's viable - but it isn't Harry - it's Luna!!! Luna is ultra special, ultra strange and just been brought in. It has to be her *hem hem*.

On the case of it being Harry, however, I still think in some small way it may be possible... as the prophecy had to be about Harry for a reason...

Picko

June 24th, 2003, 1:08 pm

But I think if Harry was heir to Gryffindor wouldn't it have been included in the prophecy? Being related to the man who confronted the ancestor of Voldemort a thousand years ago is a big thing so it should of been included. Because it isn't I don't think Harry is the heir of Gryffindor any more.

hermiones mum

June 24th, 2003, 1:14 pm

how did Salizar Slytherin die?

Picko

June 24th, 2003, 1:19 pm

We don't know, probably from old age.

Picko

June 24th, 2003, 1:38 pm

If Harry was the heir of Gryffindor it would've been mentioned by somebody by now, the fact that it wasn't mentioned in the prophecy makes me almost certain that it will not play a role in the series and I for one am very pleased about that.

Connie

June 24th, 2003, 1:41 pm

I still think it's possible, cause it felt like we only got part of the prophecy, it stated that Harry could defeat Voldemort, but really did'nt say why. There HAS to be something with the sword and the "true Gryffindor" thing.

AndyP

June 24th, 2003, 1:59 pm

i just believe that there was more in the prophecy than dumbledor told harry, it may or may not be anyting to do with the heir of gryfindor, but i think there is still more in the prophecy tobe revealed, it would be just jk's style to do something like that. but if it was going to be anyone i think it would be DD after the way he fought against voldemort

Bilbo

June 24th, 2003, 2:01 pm

I agree with Q-mash. The heir theory, which I too thought was true, can no longer happen.

However, that isn't a bad thing. Harry James Potter is now truely an everyman hero. He was born into tragic circumstances and had to deal with a rough life. Despte this, he has become a brave and willing fighter. However, it isn't because of his blood---an important theme.

Bexfizz

June 24th, 2003, 2:53 pm

In one of the sorting hat songs (book 4 or 5) the hat mentions that he was taken from the head of Gryffindor, so with the sorting hat being Godric Gryffindors hat, i think that because Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, thats the reason Dumbledore sent Harry the hat in the chamber of secrets in the first place. something to do with a weapon of slythrin (possibly the snake) and a weapon of Gryffindor.
it also explains why Voldemort killed Harry's father, and said that his mother needn't have died.

Picko

June 24th, 2003, 2:58 pm

Dumbledore said the prophecy could have been either Harry or Neville. If Harry was the heir of Gryffindor - and that was important - then it would be mentioned in the prophecy, which it isn't. The "heir" theory is as good as dead.

Loz

June 24th, 2003, 2:58 pm

It wasn't really DD who sent the hat tho was it? It was fawkes.

Picko - u have a point - one would think it would be in the prophecy - then again, prophecies can be deliberately misleading.

Qeomash

June 24th, 2003, 3:17 pm

Originally posted by AndyP (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391973#post391973))
i just believe that there was more in the prophecy than dumbledor told harry, it may or may not be anyting to do with the heir of gryfindor, but i think there is still more in the prophecy tobe revealed, it would be just jk's style to do something like that.

I really doubt there is any more. We're nearing the end of the seiries (:() and I really doubt JKR has enough time to really bring in a new major plot to the story. We've got all the information on the back story (I think, atleast) and now we're going to see the reprocutions.

Bexfizz

June 25th, 2003, 2:51 pm

maybe it doesn't really have anything to do with the prophecy it just makes harry stronger to be the decendent of of Godric Gryffindor. and i think Dumbledore did send the hat, because he obviously sent Fawlkes too. Oooh heres a thought maybe Dumbledore is the heir of Gryffindor i mean Dumbledore is the last in his line isn't he? does he have any other family apart from a brother? who in my opion will show up in the next few books because thats twice he's been mentioned now firstly by dumbledore (in book 4) something to do with a goat and then by moody about being in the orginal order of the pheonix. sorry straying off a bit from the subject but there thats my thoughts.

AutumnCro

June 25th, 2003, 3:35 pm

What would being the heir of Gryffindor do for him?

IMustNotBeNamed

June 25th, 2003, 4:19 pm

Originally posted by Bexfizz (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=393356#post393356))
maybe it doesn't really have anything to do with the prophecy it just makes harry stronger to be the decendent of of Godric Gryffindor. and i think Dumbledore did send the hat, because he obviously sent Fawlkes too.

Dumbledore didn't send Fawkes. From the CoS, US version: pg 332, "'First of all, Harry, I want to thank you', said Dumbledore, eyes twinkling again. 'You must have shown me real loyalty down in the Chamber. Nothing but that could have called Fawkes to you.'"

It was Harry's loyalty that called Fawkes. Not Dumbledore.

Hula

June 25th, 2003, 4:48 pm

I think the Heir of Gryffindor theory is as good as dead now, and I'm pleased about it. It was too obvious, and so overdone in fanfics it would've been a real disappointment for it to be an actual canon theory. There's still a faint chance that it could still happen, but I doubt it. If it was important, and the reason that Voldy wanted to kill Harry, then Neville wouldn't have been a possibility as someone to match the prophecy.

doctor23

June 25th, 2003, 9:35 pm

Well actually in a way it said that Harry is an heir to all of the founders didn't it. It said all of the really old wizarding families are related. The Potters were an old wizarding family therefore they were related to all of the others and therefore to all of the founders. Sorry to fuel the fire but it had to be said. BTW I don't think Harry is the Heir of Gryffendor and never have

Dark Fallen Pride

June 25th, 2003, 9:54 pm

I personally always thought that Voldemort wanted to kill Harry because he messed up on his first try and was really pissed that a little boy almost distroyed him. I thought that he just went around killing half bloods and people who were against him to get the world pure or whatever I never realized anyone thought he was griyffindor heir (which IMO is a stupid thought)

I also always had a thought that Voldemort wanted to kill Harry just becasue of some prophecy (which is now belived true) I acutally never really thought of why he wanted to kill Harry I just knew he did and I wanted to follow along good thing because I probably world have settled on this Prophecy and would have had no suprises.

Capella

June 25th, 2003, 10:40 pm

Originally posted by Loz (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391557#post391557))
On the case of it being Harry, however, I still think in some small way it may be possible... as the prophecy had to be about Harry for a reason...

It's about Harry because Voldemort chose to make it about Harry. The theme of choice was huge in OotP, and Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor and therefore pre-destined to face down Slytherin's Heir leaves absolutly no room for choice. Harry did not choose to be the Heir and no one else chose it for him. The lack of choice goes against everything we've been told so far in the series.
I could see Harry as the Heir before reading OotP, but not now. I really think this theory is sunk.

Picko

June 26th, 2003, 2:14 am

Originally posted by doctor23 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=393950#post393950))
Well actually in a way it said that Harry is an heir to all of the founders didn't it. It said all of the really old wizarding families are related. The Potters were an old wizarding family therefore they were related to all of the others and therefore to all of the founders. Sorry to fuel the fire but it had to be said. BTW I don't think Harry is the Heir of Gryffendor and never have

I will remind you that Harry has only two blood relations - Petunia and Dudley, which clearly means that for some reason the Potter's were not all inter-related with every other pure-blood family or else Harry would have a ton of relations.

Carbito

June 26th, 2003, 9:08 am

I was almost sure that theory was going to be true. I thought Dumbledor would say so in the chapter "The Lion and the Serpent" just from the name. Oh well, I guess it still could be true, I hope it is!

moon_lit_raven

June 26th, 2003, 12:49 pm

i think there are loads of reason why harry could be the heir but then loads they can't, i mean he might not be the only heir. cause you would of thought nevillie would be in hufflepuff, but he's not and is the longbottoms a pureblood family? and the potters?

sirius said the pureblood family cross, and nevillie was one of the choices in the prophecy so he could be a griffindor heir aswell. i mean where are the other potters cause the only two people left of harry's family are dudley and petunia.

and it seems that all the longbottoms are pureblood cause they thought nevillie could of been a squib. and there has been a 1000 years between when the school was founded, and the sorting hat did say that slytherin just left one morning so harry and nevillie could both be heirs.

Loz

June 26th, 2003, 3:51 pm

I think that being the actual "heir" is different from being the descendant...

jerb

June 27th, 2003, 8:08 pm

I've been thinking that lately. That the heir of any of the houses is someone to continue the work of the founder.

FawkesBox

June 28th, 2003, 3:55 pm

I agree. There must be many relatives of the founders. Were they not purebloods? and as Sirius says, all the purebloods are related somehow either by blood or marriage! Therefore it is likely that there are relatives of the four founders still around but unlikely for there to be true hiers.

animagus1369

June 29th, 2003, 12:43 am

Originally posted by Picko (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=394377#post394377))
I will remind you that Harry has only two blood relations - Petunia and Dudley, which clearly means that for some reason the Potter's were not all inter-related with every other pure-blood family or else Harry would have a ton of relations.

Not necessarily. There's nothing to say the Potters were a particularly prolific family, so it could have been the case that they were killed off one by one because they were against Voldemort. G** only knows, according to the discussion after the Quidditch World Cup about the Dark Mark, it sounds like there were plenty of Witches and Wizards killed off by DEs before Voldemort's (first) downfall in Godric's Hollow.

Also, though I don't have anything to base this on and it's really more a Lily theory, the impression I got was that it wasn't Harry's blood relations that were important for purposes of the protection Charm (which is, I think, the context in which most of the Harry's-relations discussions took place) but Lily's blood relations, because they were Muggles and not Wizards/Witches.

Raven

June 29th, 2003, 2:47 am

Of course, you're right! Dumbledore said that as long as Harry called Aunt Petunia's place home, he would be safe there, because Aunt Petunia is Lily's sister.

stellaluna

June 29th, 2003, 4:05 pm

Originally posted by Silver Phoenix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389275#post389275))
I myself believe that the heir thing has already played out. I don't think there will be anymore plot refrences to the whole heir thing. One reason being, we now know that there /are/ other schools for wizards, it doens't just revolve around Hogwarts. Also, we only have 2 more books to go, if it was going to be a major thing, I think we would have heard a little something about it at least.

That is exactly what I think. I don't think Harry or whoever is the heir of Gryffindor and I don't expect it to have any importance in the future. Harry is already "special" in a more universially way by the means of this prophecy. Really, he can't be the special one in everything.

Myrddin

June 30th, 2003, 2:50 pm

Originally posted by Qeomash (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=392120#post392120))
I really doubt there is any more. We're nearing the end of the seiries (:() and I really doubt JKR has enough time to really bring in a new major plot to the story. We've got all the information on the back story (I think, atleast) and now we're going to see the reprocutions.

The back story is almost all there. We still don't know how the Potters fit into it all historically, we can pretty much take it that they're not related to the Black family tree. We still don't know why they were so rich. I'm so glad the whole heir thing didn't pan out as it was a half baked idea at best. But the prophecy has an interesting sting in it's tail. If Harry vanquishes Lord Voldermort and survives then we have a very powerful wizard on our hands. How he would wield this immense power is an interesting question since technically the whole wizarding world would have reason to fear him, as much if not more than Voldermort. [See the Dune series and Paul Atreides to get the idea.]

animagus1369

June 30th, 2003, 2:52 pm

Originally posted by hardnut (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389262#post389262))
Just noticed arfter reading this brick sized book that there was no mention of Harry/James/Dumbledore being the heir of Gryffindor,

Do you feel that JK will ever bring this to light or just one of her many 'red herring's she put in to keep us guessing if that Harry was gonna learn that he was the heir or something?

It's also possible that after 1000 years, there isn't only a single heir of Gryffindor. I mean, seesm like it would be rather odd if there was only one heir, considering all the time that had passed and all the Wizards and Witches who must have been born in the meantime.

Jessica

July 8th, 2003, 12:40 am

I agree with Picko on this one.

I admit to a slight fondness for the heir of Gryffindor theory, but I definitely thought it was going to come out in the prophecy if at all.

Something along the lines of "a male in the Potter family will destroy the Dark Lord" which would explain the infamous "Lily did not have to die".

But the fact that it didn't mention the Potters specifically and that it could have been Neville pretty much kills the Heir of Gryffindor theory for me.

Which is just as well becuase it was a little too obvious.

ilovedan112389

July 8th, 2003, 11:30 am

I think harry is the heir of Gryffindor

FlyersFan

July 8th, 2003, 4:10 pm

Hawk 92

July 9th, 2003, 8:52 pm

I've often wondered about this whole heir thing and I felt that Harry was much too obvious. I've often been a bigger fan of Hermione being the Heiress of Gryffindor myself. Perhaps that's why she ended up in Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw.

Cheers!

Noodlez

July 9th, 2003, 9:07 pm

I think the theory of Harry being the heir of Gryffendor is over-exploited, over-used and over-rated.

It would be way to obvious. Just because "..only a true gryffendor.." can get it doesnt neccisarily mean he is the HEIR. He is a loyal, brave and smart gryffyndor. Thus making him a true gryffyndor! The reason the sorting hat almost put him in Slytherin is because when voldemort gave him the scar they were linked together by an invisible tie of magic. Voldie-poo was in Slytheren. Got it? :)

Jessica

July 9th, 2003, 9:09 pm

Originally posted by FlyersFan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=434289#post434289))
OK, here's a quote to ponder. Paga 843, American version. Dumbledore is telling Harry about Voldemort's spy at the Hog's Head. He only heard half the prophecy, and "he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to rusk transferring power to you- again marking you as his equal." The key word is AGAIN. Harry was already destined for equality when Voldemort marked him.
I've been thinking a lot about this. Add a comma after the word again, and Dumbledore is telling Harry that Voldemort's choosing him is what marked him(Harry) as an equal. Without the comma, as it appears in the books, it appears that Harry was already marked. Maybe not Heir of Gryffindor, but he was already destined for greatness when Voldemort gave him his scar.

Very interesting catch. Now I'm up in the air!

I have to admit I don't think JKR will use destiny like you're implying because she seems to really believe in the power of choices, but that is really interesting. I wonder what it means.

Ms.Sirius

July 12th, 2003, 8:45 am

There are several things that happen throughout the books that lead us to think Harry could be the heir to Gryffindor, not just the part in COS. A listing in "Muggles' guide to Magic" noted:
*Harry pulled Godrics sword from the hat in COS (we all caught that).
*Harry's parents lived in Godrics Hollow. (Named after Gryffindor?)
*When Harry got his wand, the correct wand shot out red and gold sparks.
I had forgotten about the wand, it had been ages since I read SS, but its interesting that red and gold are Gryffindor colors. If Harry IS the heir, I think that may explain why he was chosen to be special in killing Voldy. And the prophecy didn't come out and say "Heir", that would have been ...............weird.
:bite:

Wakkachuta

July 12th, 2003, 11:09 am

I don't think Harry is Heir of Gryffindor, and, like Picko, I didn't like the idea in the first place. It would be too silly if there was a plot-line about the Heir of Slytherin and the Heir of Gryffindor. I think the line 'only a true Gryffindor' meant that only a person truly meant to be in Gryffindor House could use Gryffindor's sword, not exclusively an Heir of Gryffindor.

impatient

July 12th, 2003, 11:15 am

I think you have to look at JK's use of the words Heir and descendant. Heir I understand to mean someone who is descended from the same blood line *and* who carries on the work of one of the original 4 wizards of the school. For example, in the chamber, Tom Riddle, Voldy is the Heir of Slytherin - he is only the Heir because he chose to open the chamber and he had the ability to use parcel tongue - it could have been on of hundreds of descendants but for one reason or another Voldy was the one with the ability to be the Heir. So based on that Harry could be the Heir of gryffindor but that doesn't mean he has to be the only descendant - he couldn't possibly be the only descendant still living because of the inter-family relations.

Maybe!

Quasi_EviL

July 12th, 2003, 4:12 pm

Is there necessarily a heir for the other 3 houses? Or even just Gryffindor? Tom Riddle said that the blood of Salazar Slytherin flows through his veins, which obviously means they're related. They could be related in some other way than in a "great-great grandfather" sort of way, but it seems reasonable that they would be. What if the other heirs didn't have children? Their legacy wouldn't continue on in the same way as Slytherin's. What if they felt it wasn't necessary for them to have heirs?

LESTRANGEMUSTDIE

July 12th, 2003, 4:17 pm

Originally posted by Ms.Sirius (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=447807#post447807))
*When Harry got his wand, the correct wand shot out red and gold sparks.

red and gold are also phoenix colors, and as harry's wand contains a pnoenix tail feather, it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with gryffindor.

TheFifthMarauder

August 1st, 2003, 1:08 pm

Maybe by "true Gryffindor" they meant that Harry belonged in Gryffindor, and not that he was the actual heir of Gordric Gryffindor. The Weasleys were all put in Gryffindor, so that would probably mean that they are also "true Gryffindors". Wouldn't this mean the Weasleys are the heirs? No. It just means that they belong in Gryffindor, not Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, or Slytherin, because they possess all the traits of a "true" Gryffindor. This goes for Harry as well.

sindatur

August 1st, 2003, 1:18 pm

Neville's the Heir of Griffyndor, that's why he'll believe he's the "true" wizzard that has to vanquish Voldemort in the final battle, he'll try doing it in a standard ordinary way and he'll get killed (or hopefully only injured) in the process, and Voldemort will be weakened in some way by Neville's attempt, that will allow Harry to Vanquish Voldemort once and for all through love in some kinda way we haven't imagined and will take us totally by surprise

DaN+EmMa

August 1st, 2003, 2:18 pm

i think that he is the heir as well. theres just alot of evidence and everything fits into each other. either that or he's just really loyal to griffindore and he has so many griffindore qualities.
--------------------
http://www.eternalmagic.co.uk/images/dan/dr.gif

proud daniel radcliffe and H/H shipper! =]

Pucko

August 11th, 2003, 8:13 am

i seriously, seriously doubt that there will eb anything else about heirs. it would just be stupid honestly. the heir thing has had its importance so JK will come up with something new to play a major part in book 6 and 7. if the heir thing was to be part of it at all, it would have to be big...but it has already been big so it's not gonna be big again and there is no point to it being small.
so no more heir thing (thank goodness)

Fender85

August 11th, 2003, 11:28 pm

i just believe that there was more in the prophecy than dumbledor told harry

I think so too. I'm especially nervous about the "Neither can live while the other survives." The "neither can live" part just sounds awfully suspicious. Does this mean that, in killing Voldemort, Harry will die?

Silkeng

August 12th, 2003, 12:24 am

It seems unlikely that Harry is the heir. There has been no real indications that anyone was the heir to anything besides Voldemort. I am not sure there is more to the prophecy, would seem cruel to keep anything from Harry at this point as he is going to be sixteen and is facing the truth of the prophecy.
I for one am glad that he isn't the heir, and that it is "just harry" who is an equal to an heir.

JenJen

August 12th, 2003, 7:03 pm

I could see Harry as the heir, but more history about why he's the heir and why Voldie is so against the heir of Gryffindor would need to be introduced so that it really isn't such a stupid theory anymore.

Griff_Ndor

August 12th, 2003, 7:29 pm

Well I was watching CoS on dvd yesterday. I hadn't thought about it before but the sorting hat was revealed previously as belonging to Godric Gryffindor aswell. I am quite a strong believer in the heir theory. People seem to forget that an heir is not necessarily a blood relative. Harry was called a true Gryffindor by Dumbledore and displays all the qualities Godric Gryffindor held dear, bravery, loyalty and tenacity. That was the purpose of Fawkes taking the hat aswell as the sword instead of the sword alone.

I have noticed a lot of people saying that JKR would have mentioned it by now but why would she? She is writing a seven part series if she had told us almost everything by this stage we could all work out what will happen in the next two books and lose interest. Harry being the heir to Gryffindor could be a big enough clue to giving away the rest of the story.

Griff_Ndor

August 12th, 2003, 7:32 pm

I see it as history repeating itself. Slytherin fought bitterly with his former friend, Gryffindor.

I think they are both heirs to the respective Hogwarts founder because of their beliefs and character.

HP_Luis

August 13th, 2003, 5:52 pm

Goldie

August 16th, 2003, 12:39 pm

Just because the question of Harry's ancestors wasn't answered in OotP doesn't mean it won't be answered in 6 or 7. I still believe he's the heir, but then I also believe Ludo Bagman's a Death Eater. We'll see.......

Mutant for Hire

August 16th, 2003, 1:20 pm

Remember that Slytherin was obsessed with blood. He would be the one who would be most likely to designate his heir by blood. Gryffindor and Ravenclaw would most likely designate their heirs at any given time by the qualities that they looked for in their students. Hufflepuff, from all indications, would probably find the idea of an heir of Hufflepuff nonsensical.

Gryffindor, were he alive, might well have said that Harry was his heir, not by blood, but by nobility and courage. In fact the drawing of the sword from the hat could have been when Harry was marked as the Heir to Gryffindor, not by blood but by going into the Chamber of Secrets to face a basilisk, to save an innocent life, and to stop Slytherin's plan to kill all those of less than pure blood at Hogwarts.

Ravenclaw would likely say that the most learned student of her House would be her heir, the one most curious and seeking out new facts. That is what she prized in her students.

Raven

August 16th, 2003, 4:18 pm

phoenix_gurl

August 16th, 2003, 4:58 pm

~~~ I totaly agree w/everyone who thinks Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor. JKR has given us many clues that he is. As many other people have said, Harry doesn't have to be Gryffindor's Heir by blood! I Also think that the sword Harry pulled out of the hat means a lot. Why else would harry pull a sword that once belonged to Godric Gryffindor if he wasn't related or his Heir?~~~

Shadow_Princess

August 19th, 2003, 1:30 am

I reckon everyone has hit the nail on the head, I have a little theory too but I can't seem to find a thread to post it in ( this place is so big!)
Theory: IF you take fawkes' name in pronunciation is sounds like faux (french for fake),and my little theory is (which my sister doesn't agree with me) is that fawkes could be an animagus for Godric Gryffindor himself. Things not being real, that fawkes the bird is fake not really a bird, I know this is a long shot but it occured to me one day.
Does this sound plausable to anyone or make sense.??? let me know!

Raven

August 19th, 2003, 8:54 pm

Not really a bad theory, except that 'faux' isn't said like "Fawks" its pronounced "foe".

MollyWeasley22

August 19th, 2003, 9:15 pm

Well in all honesty you can't close the book on the idea though. JK hasn't ended the series yet, but if we don't see it in the sixth book I'm guessing there is a good chance it wont be brought up period.
But with the way the fifth book played it, it could possibly come up in the next book as we all know Dumbledore will probably try to advance Harry's skills and in doing so may inform him of more information, unless he himself doesn't know. We have to wait and see.

Bexfizz

August 20th, 2003, 7:28 pm

I think Dumbledore is the heir of Gryfindor, but whether he has any children or not to carry on after him i don't know, if not then if he dies Gryfindor dies with him.

PlaceboAddict

August 20th, 2003, 7:59 pm

I'd be a little disappointed to see Harry as the heir of Gryffindor. She's already made him special and famous enough, she doesn't need to keep adding things to him. The whole point of this is that Harry's a fairly normal boy, slightly above average. To make him the heir as well would just be too much, IMHO..... it's possible and very interesting, but I wouldn't really like to see it happen.

Draco Serpensortia

August 20th, 2003, 8:12 pm

I thought Harry could be the Heir of Gryffindor when he pulled Godric Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat in his second year. Now I'm really sure that he is the true Heir of Gryffindor.

ivory

August 20th, 2003, 8:23 pm

I agree with Draco Serpensortia. Ever since I read about how he pulled Gryffindor's sword out of Gryffindor's hat... I just thought it was weird. And how Dumbledore said only a true Gryffindor would have pulled out that sword [or something like that] I just thought that he would be the heir of Gryffindor.

But I also agree with PlaceboAddict. I mean. Harry is like known by practically everyone in the Wizarding World. He lived after the most evil wizard of all time tried to kill him. He found the Sorcerer's Stone, and the Chamber of Secrets, been in the Triwizard Tournament when he wasn't supposed to, and saw Voldemort being brought back. If he ends up being Gryffindor's heir too, that would be sort of too much.

phoenix_gurl

August 30th, 2003, 12:41 am

In my opinion, Harry IS the heir, why else would Voldemort choose him, the half blood, instead of Neville, the pure blood.?? Because he knew Harry Was the Heir!!

v@sh

August 30th, 2003, 5:42 am

IMO, Harry is not the heir and Dumbledore is. It seems to me that the heirs of the founders are extremely talented, beyond that of ordinary wizards easily. For Harry to be the heir and rival that of Voldemort he would need to be extremely good to take himself into the Voldemort/Dumbledore range - though they took a while to get there, it showed early that even they were more powerful than Harry at his age e.g. DD doing things in exams that seems unimaginable and Voldemort, as DD said, was the smartest wizard in a long time at Hogwarts.

So it makes sense to me that DD is the heir of Godric - he was in Gryffindor and Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin. Harry could become the next heir of Gryffindor if they allow more than one heir. He needs a lot of catching up to do if he is to become the next heir.

With the hat though, DD said a 'true' Gryffindor would be able to take the sword out of the hat. It doesn't necessarily mean Harry is the heir but it can been seen like that. Rather I think any person with Gryffindor characteristics would be able to pull that out of the hat. The only thing is that its unlikely because most don't need to use the sword.

Robin

September 22nd, 2003, 8:27 pm

'FINE!' yelled Harry, and in his temper, red and gold sparks shot out of the end of his wand, still clutched in his hand. All three Dursleys flinched, looking terrified. - OotP - Ch.2 "A Peck of Owls"

I'm sorry if this qoute has alreday been stated in this thread but I couldn't find anything about it.

One of the so called evidence that Harry was the heir of Gryffindor before OotP was that his wand had emitted red and gold stars when he first tried it in PS/SS.
Here we see it again...

Goldie

September 23rd, 2003, 2:48 am

I still like the heir theory, even if it does seem obvious and hasn't yet been confirmed or disproved one way or the other. There are just too many little pieces of evidence pointing in that direction for me to dismiss it simply because it wasn't part of the prophecy. We still have two books to go, after all.

However, I've been thinking about how one of the major themes of the books - that it's your choices that matter, not who you are - intersects with the "Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor" theory.

Could it be that, perhaps, Harry is the heir, but it just doesn't matter?

Just a thought...........

rons-lover

September 23rd, 2003, 3:06 am

I think that what JKR meant when she wrote, "Only a true Gryffindor could pull out the sword." was not to say "Harry you are the Heir of Gryffindor.", but rather to say that if Harry were'nt meant to be in Gryffindor he would'nt be, he'd have been in Slytherin or whatever house. It was his choice that he should pull that sword out of the hat. He wanted more than anything to be a Gryffindor and not Slytherin. Probably more in that moment then in any other because he was faced with Voldy - his heir. Course I guess that's what made some people think he is the heir. But I don't think it was that at all. Harry needed help and reassurance. And it came.

And the Godrics Hollow thing. That's something else people use as a proof for it. But just because they were there it doesn't mean they were related to him. Then I guess it would seem logical. But maybe they bought it. haha I mean you never know. a friend could've leant it to them. Or what if Dumbledore leant it to them? Hmmmm

Okay so obviously I never bought into the Harry is Gryffindor's heir theory. Mainly cause Harry has enough on his shoulders doesn't he? And I don't think Harry needs that to beat Voldy. And its already been said that what he fears most is love and death of course.

So I think that if Harry were Godrics heir, and not necassarily by blood, then it would only be to prove that it doesn't matter who your relations are, but what you make yourself. If you let yourself become what your relations are it is your choice. Sure we can't control everything. But we all know choice is a prevailing theme in the books. So that is the way it would be used if it comes up I believe. :D

padfootLives

September 27th, 2003, 2:32 pm

What about neville being the heir of gryffindor !

I mean why would it be that weird ? i think we have a lot to learn about him since he's finally show his true colour in OotP, and don't forget than this year he will have a new wand, i believe that will change everything !
i just can see why people would think he is the one who will vanquish Voldemort (the prophecie is pretty clear about that + dumbledore saying so !!!) neither i believe that harry is actually the heir of gryffindor ! but is neville going to be one of Harry's best ally in his way to a voldemort free world ? why not ?
perhaps some of you might say that it is not really important who is the heir of who but it would be so interresting that voldemort marked harry his equal instead of the actual heir of gryffindor

Picko

September 27th, 2003, 2:41 pm

And the Godrics Hollow thing. That's something else people use as a proof for it. But just because they were there it doesn't mean they were related to him. Then I guess it would seem logical. But maybe they bought it. haha I mean you never know. a friend could've leant it to them. Or what if Dumbledore leant it to them? Hmmmm

Well the Potters were hiding in Godrics Hollow not living there. Before anyone mentions the Fidelus Charm thing if they hid in their own home Voldemort could just destroy the home regardless of whether he knew they were in there or not. It simply wouldn't make sense, therefore we can conclude that the Potter's didn't live at Godrics Hollow.

As for the Gryffindor's Heir theory, I hate it. It's a horrible theory and I hope that it doesn't turn out to be true. It would be weak and the very idea that genetics pasted down over a millenium could be of any importance is absolutely ridiculous. I trust JK has more sense than that and as of yet I haven't been disappointed.

Eleanor12

September 28th, 2003, 12:15 am

Has this theory now gone to rot? Or is it still viable? Most of us (myself included) thought that Harry was Heir to Gryffindor and that's why Voldemort wanted to kill him. Turns out that wasn't the case. Of course, there is still the matter of the sword that Harry pulled out of the Sorting hat, "only a true Gryffindor" could do that.

What do y'all think?

So do all the founders have "heirs"? what if Slytherin is the only one who needs one because he was the one who was exclusive and who was interested in power (he'd wanted to keep it with an "heir" wouldn't he, if he had power?)
just curious. I wouldn't have thought that there'd be an "heir" like that. maybe relations, descendents, but...

rotsiepots

September 28th, 2003, 5:53 am

I don't think this theory is of any relevance anymore. The reason the whole "Heir of Gryffindor" theory was floated was because we assumed that's why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry. Now that we know it was because of a prophecy, any revelation that Harry is the Heir won't matter.

I doubt very much whether this theory will come up in future books. Time will only tell, I suppose.

Robin

September 28th, 2003, 2:34 pm

Before anyone mentions the Fidelus Charm thing if they hid in their own home Voldemort could just destroy the home regardless of whether he knew they were in there or not.

Actually he couldn't have. Harry couldn't see number twelve, Grimmauld Place before he read the note from Dumbledore......

So therefore the Potters might have been living in Godrics Hollow, even though I doubt they did.

Picko

September 28th, 2003, 3:03 pm

Actually he couldn't have. Harry couldn't see number twelve, Grimmauld Place before he read the note from Dumbledore......

That effect was done by the Black's so no one could see their house, it isn't part of the Fidelus Charm :) Regardless, it still says in the text that they hid in Godrics Hollow - no lived in.

fawkes5

September 28th, 2003, 3:33 pm

Well, I don't hate the Gryffindor heir theory nor do I espouse it. However, we were arguing in a different thread about what Harry's power may be and why he was designated the one who can vanquish Voldie and this heir thing turned up.

I cannot completely dismiss the heir thing yet because when I read PoA again something Sirius said to Peter struck me; something about Peter being in position in Hogwarts to deliver the last Potter to Voldemort in case he became strong again. I dunno, but I was reminded forcibly of the heir thing, maybe the Potters are the last in Gryffindor's line. I also think Harry's having green eyes (Lily's eyes) could be important in a sense that it symbolizes the Muggle blood in Harry.

Catgirl

September 28th, 2003, 9:38 pm

OK, here's a quote to ponder. Paga 843, American version. Dumbledore is telling Harry about Voldemort's spy at the Hog's Head. He only heard half the prophecy, and "he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to rusk transferring power to you- again marking you as his equal." The key word is AGAIN. Harry was already destined for equality when Voldemort marked him.
I've been thinking a lot about this. Add a comma after the word again, and Dumbledore is telling Harry that Voldemort's choosing him is what marked him(Harry) as an equal. Without the comma, as it appears in the books, it appears that Harry was already marked. Maybe not Heir of Gryffindor, but he was already destined for greatness when Voldemort gave him his scar.I'm sorry, but I think that must be a misprint in your version of the book. The word 'again' doesn't appear in mine.Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Uk Edition, Chapter 37, Page 743
'He only heard the beginning, the part fortelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldermort. Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you, and marking you as his equel.'
I believe that all the founders must have lots of decndents. Think about it from a logical point of veiw. Take into account all the inter-relations between wizarding families, the number of wizards in Britain now and at that time and also the amount of time that has passed since the founding of Hogwarts. Surely almost every single pureblood and halfblood at Hogwarts has the blood of one or more of the founders mixed in there somewhere.

As for Harry being the heir. I think that it is likely, but I don't think it will be of significance. I've noticed a bit of evidence to surpport that theory in Order of the Phoenix. Voldermort chose Harry over as his adversary. Voldermort 'marked him as his equel'. It could be that he thought of Harry as his equel, not just because he was a halfblood like Dumbledore said, but because harry was the heir of Griffindor and he was the heir of Slitherin. He would automatically assume it was Harry because of the ancient rivalry between Griffindor and Slitherin.

Robin

September 30th, 2003, 5:57 pm

That effect was done by the Black's so no one could see their house, it isn't part of the Fidelus Charm

You sure about that? It hought it was the Fidelius Charm since he could only see it after he read the paper from the secret keeper, Dumbledore.
´
Ok, back to topic...
I believe that all the founders must have lots of decndents. Think about it from a logical point of veiw. Take into account all the inter-relations between wizarding families, the number of wizards in Britain now and at that time and also the amount of time that has passed since the founding of Hogwarts. Surely almost every single pureblood and halfblood at Hogwarts has the blood of one or more of the founders mixed in there somewhere.

I too have thought about that. But why is it then that only the heir of Slytherin could open the chamber of secrets. It seems to me that almost every wizard could open it if only it took was to have Slytherin blood in you.
Feels like I've forgotten something being said in CoS about the chamber but I'm too lazy to check it up....

rotsiepots

October 1st, 2003, 1:56 am

That effect was done by the Black's so no one could see their house, it isn't part of the Fidelus Charm :) Regardless, it still says in the text that they hid in Godrics Hollow - no lived in.

I believe Robin is correct. Dumbledore is the Order's Secret-Keeper and it's for this reason that Harry couldn't see Grimmauld Place when he first arrived; it was protected by the Fidelius Charm. It was only when Harry read the note from Dumbledore that Grimmauld Place appeared.

The Blacks made Grimmauld Place unplottable and performed a few other tricks on it, but they certainly didn't make it invisible.

sawyer

November 5th, 2003, 8:12 am

Ohhh good point, Mutant! So it doesn't matter if Harry is directly descended from Gryffindor or not. He is still the bravest in the House. Remember what Dumbledore said? That Harry has shown bravery beyond that of adult wizards.
But if Dumbledore with his statement was only referring to Gryffindor's house, it means that every students of this house can take the sword. I don't think the sword is a true evidence of the theory.
However Harry has shown bravery all over the books, as Raven said, and this could be the real evidence. ;)

Ford Anglia

November 5th, 2003, 2:53 pm

Remember that Slytherin was obsessed with blood. He would be the one who would be most likely to designate his heir by blood.

But was he? Does any reliable source indicate that his preference for students who were from old magic famillies actually reached anywhere near the mania expressed by, say, the Black family? Binns said that Salazar was worried that muggle born students weren't completely trustworthy. Remember, this was during the freakin' dark ages, so he had a point. He was wrong in the long term, yes, but did it make him evil to be worried about giving the location of Hogwarts to children who could go home and be picked up by witchhunters?

I'm completely re-thinking my views on old Salazar, because I can't really combine what we know about him (great friend of Gryffindor, founder of the school) with what has been suggested (he conspired to release a basilisk on his students). The school was likely to be closed down in part two, is that what Slytherin would have wanted? What this all leads to is that I'm not convinced there's an heir of Slytherin, and even less convinced of Gryffindor doing the same thing.

devoweirdman

December 18th, 2003, 3:04 am

Harry used to live in GODRIC'S hollow and i think that's connected to Godric Gryffindor somehow. I also read in an interview that James inherited a lot of his money, maybe it's because he/Harry are the heirs to Gryffindor?

Raven

December 18th, 2003, 4:10 am

Either that or who ever gave them that house was heir to Gryffindor. It seems to me that if the Potters were going to go into hiding, they wouldn't go into hiding in the house that they had lived in before they became members of the Order of the Phoenix. Even with the Fidelious Charm that seems a bit risky.

My guess is that the house would have belonged to Dumbledore, and that he gave or lent it to them.

Discordia

December 25th, 2003, 9:14 am

Eleanor12

December 29th, 2003, 8:35 pm

Well, it just seems a little fishy. That book 2 was centered around the heir of Slytherin so why not an heir to the other houses? Salazar left behind a secret chamber that only his heir could open and Gryfindoor left behind a sword in a hat. Well than if the founders all left behind things wouldn't that mean only the heirs could wield them? I'm not sure whether I believe that Harry is the heir or not but how many Griffindoors can pull out Godrics sword out of the sorting hat? It doesn't seem like it's something that just anyone can do. It seems slightly symbolic though. Godric's sword killed Salazar's snake. It kind of represents the fighting between the houses and how Griffindoor one over Slyhterin. If Slytherin and Griffindoor left behind items than maybe so did Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff.

I thought it was just "a true Gryffindor" that would get the sword out of the hat, not necessarily Gryffindor's heir. I don't know. maybe they do all have heirs and these objects are for the heirs. But it also would make sense for only Slytherin, the one who was so concerned with blood, lineage and such, to be the only one concerned with provisions for an heir.
but then, what would it mean if Harry were heir of Gryffindor?

Discordia

December 30th, 2003, 9:08 am

I thought it was just "a true Gryffindor" that would get the sword out of the hat, not necessarily Gryffindor's heir. I don't know. maybe they do all have heirs and these objects are for the heirs. But it also would make sense for only Slytherin, the one who was so concerned with blood, lineage and such, to be the only one concerned with provisions for an heir.
but then, what would it mean if Harry were heir of Gryffindor?

I dunno. Maybe the heirs are the only ones that can use what the founders left behind. I dunno. I'm not sure if they all have heirs. Riddle didn't even know he was the heir till his 5th year so it's not like people go around flaunting their lineage unless they know it which seems pretty hard to figure out. Whether Harry is the heir or not I have no idea. THere's a good chance that he could be and than again it could be someone else.

Raven

December 30th, 2003, 8:17 pm

Eleanor12

December 31st, 2003, 1:14 am

Maybe the phrase, "a true Gryffindor" has two meanings. On the one hand, it was said to reassure that he did belong in Gryffindor, and on the other it was written in order to possibly hint and/or foreshadow something yet to come.

Harry is probably the most powerful student to come to hogwarts since it was founded. He is easily the most powerful Gryffindor, and he certainly embodies the traits that represent Gryffindor. Perhaps that is what makes somebody Gryffindor's heir. Not blood, but merit.

Ah, that makes sense, though I might question whether Harry is the most powerful student to come to Hogwarts. Did Dumbledore attend Hogwarts? I'm sorry, I don't think that's really important. Perhaps you are right, perhaps Harry can be Gryffindor's heir by merit. But then, wouldn't that make him a different kind of heir? Anyway, it would make sense for that to be the case, and that theory, were it to be true, would nicely highlight a difference that Gryffindor has with Slytherin (though I have always imagined Hufflepuff the most accepting house...).

Raven

December 31st, 2003, 1:50 am

But then, wouldn't that make him a different kind of heir?
An Heir is one who inherits or who is entitled to inherit property or a title.

If my friend died and left me a fountain pen I would be one of her heirs. (You can have multiple heirs you know.)

Or

If somebody willed their fountain pen to the person with the best caligraphy skills on the block that I live on I would again be the heir.

Eleanor12

December 31st, 2003, 2:26 am

An Heir is one who inherits or who is entitled to inherit property or a title.

If my friend died and left me a fountain pen I would be one of her heirs. (You can have multiple heirs you know.)

Or

If somebody willed their fountain pen to the person with the best caligraphy skills on the block that I live on I would again be the heir.

Yes. And what has Harry inherited from Godric Gryffindor? Is there a chance that we read way too much into the whole heir of Slytherin thing? Are all house members heirs to the founder of the house to which they belong? Did Godric Gryffindor know Harry Potter would come along one day and... what? What if it was "the" heir of Slytherin, or any Slytherin who would choose to try to open the chamber, who could... ah, I'm beginning to see it. Tom Riddle would then have become the heir of Slytherin by being the one to open the chamber... okay, well still...
this certainly is interesting for me.

morgan le fay

December 31st, 2003, 3:08 am

Eleanor12

December 31st, 2003, 4:12 pm

with heir of slytherin business, voldie is the heir by blood, correct? so to stay on the same platform, i consider any heir of gryffindor to be an heir by blood.

i just dont go for re-using the heir idea. jkr has tons of ideas. although, if we did later find out that harry is the heir of gryffindor, it would just add to the parallels and shared/similar identities of harry and voldie.

im sure someone else has said this, but maybe they havent....

maybe the potters lived at Godric's hollow because james inherited it being an heir of gryffindor?? didnt jkr say that james got his gold from inheritance??? that would make sense.

but, if harry IS the heir of ANYthing, wouldnt dumbledore have told him so at the end of ootp when he pretty much came clean about everything that he had hidden from him? :huh:

I agree, I don't go for re-using the heir idea. However, I would also assert that Dumbledore probably didn't really come clean about everything that had been hidden from Harry. I imagine there are still more secrets. Not that that's important here, unless relating to Harry's being the heir of anything, which Dumbledore probably would have told him. but then, James could be a descendent of Gryffindor and have inherited things from him, and it wouldn't be important to Harry (at least not yet). And Dumbledore probably only told Harry what he needed to know at the time.

Discordia

December 31st, 2003, 4:50 pm

I agree, I don't go for re-using the heir idea. However, I would also assert that Dumbledore probably didn't really come clean about everything that had been hidden from Harry. I imagine there are still more secrets. Not that that's important here, unless relating to Harry's being the heir of anything, which Dumbledore probably would have told him. but then, James could be a descendent of Gryffindor and have inherited things from him, and it wouldn't be important to Harry (at least not yet). And Dumbledore probably only told Harry what he needed to know at the time.

It seems to me like Dumbledore usually lets Harry figure things out more on his own. If Harry was the heir than time during the end of OoP would have been a good time to do it. Dumbledore only tells Harry what he needs to know when he needs to know it or if he asks him. In CoS during the end when Harry went to Dumbledore's office than would have been a good time to ask if he was the heir but the question just kind of hung in the heir between tham and Harry didn't seem to be able to make a connection. You'd think that Dumbledore would be the one to tell Harry something this important but he hasn't. We still have 2 more books to go so anythings possible. If Harry was the heir it would be kind of symbolic in the way a Gryfindoor student brought down the heir of Slytherin by killing the serpent. The idea sounds nice but Dumbledore should have told himif he knew atleast. Maybe there are some thigns that he still wants to hold back? He was very close to the Potters and if anyone did know it would be him. I'm sure that the ancient blood lines are so entangled it would be hard to figure out who was the heir unless they were a direct descendant or something.

thinkpink38

January 2nd, 2004, 5:32 pm

Harry is the last heir of Godric Gryffindor because...
--James Potter is also a heir of Gryffindor.
--They lived in GODRICS Hollow.
--When harry got his wand it shot out red and gold sparks.
--Harry's a heir of Gryffindor because he pulled the Gryffindor's sword out from the sorting hat in the 2nd book.

thinkpink38

January 2nd, 2004, 8:04 pm

To add on to that...Dumbledore is Harry's grandfather. We know this because in Book I in the Mirror of Erised, only one of his grandfathers' was in it. This also means that Dumbledore is James' father and the true heir of Gryffindor. Thats just what I think.

NepSy

January 6th, 2004, 11:30 am

I always liked the heir of Gryffindor teory. It makes sense. Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin were best friends and now their heirs are trying to kill each other (well, Harry didn't try to kill Voldemort but he will have to do it someday).
This is a quote from an interview JK gave:

"And I'm going to ask one other question which you'll say isn't clever at all. The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived, the first name--
Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you're a bit good you are, aren't you?

Thank you.
I'm impressed. My editor didn't notice, I said to her haven't you noticed any connection between where Harry's parents were born, not born, where they lived, and one of the Hogwarts houses and she's sitting there going erm... "

Harry's parents lived at Godric's Hollow and I don't think JK put the connection only for fun. And of course there is the sword of Gryffindor.

Raven

January 7th, 2004, 4:54 am

I seem to remember that interview...but not the second part of the quote (the part about the Editor). However if that is what she really said, that seems to just about confirm this theory.

Wild

January 10th, 2004, 6:03 pm

[QUOTE=Catgirl]I'm sorry, but I think that must be a misprint in your version of the book. The word 'again' doesn't appear in mine.
I believe that all the founders must have lots of decndents. Think about it from a logical point of veiw. Take into account all the inter-relations between wizarding families, the number of wizards in Britain now and at that time and also the amount of time that has passed since the founding of Hogwarts. Surely almost every single pureblood and halfblood at Hogwarts has the blood of one or more of the founders mixed in there somewhere.

I'm sorry Catgirl, but my book says the same thing as Flyersfan
"he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you- again marking you as his equal." Mabye the difference is because yours is the UK version?

Wild

January 12th, 2004, 5:01 am

Remember how in book five, Dumbledore is talking to Harry about the prophosy, he tells Harry that Voldemort saw himeself in Harry and that's why he attacked Harry not Neville. He said it was because Harry was a half blood like him, but could it also be because Harry was an heir like him? Voldemort probaly did a little research about the Longbottons and the Potters before he attacked, Could he have found out that the Potters were descendents from Godric Griffynder? Wich would also give reason to why James would have to die and not Lilly. James would be the last descendent besides Harry.

Turambar

January 12th, 2004, 11:18 am

The Sorting hat in its songs stresses the qualities/talents of the four houses. I think that's what the idea of heirs is about.
Voldie had Slytherin's blood but he chose to concentrate on the dark arts. He also chose to spend several years of his school time searching for the Chamber.
He was also a parselmouth and he says to Harry in COS that they are:

"probably the only two Parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since the great Slytherin himself."

I think the qualities of the houses in students and the theme of harmony of the houses is important in the series.

This is important:

(OOTP) "How come you're not in Ravenclaw?" he demanded, staring at Hermione with something close to wonder. "With brains like yours?"
"Well, the Sorting Hat did seriously consider putting me in Ravenclaw during my sorting," said Hermione brightly, "but it decided on Gryffindor in the end."

Quite possibly Hermione asked the hat to be put in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw. Bravery wins out over intelligence to Hermione's mind despite her obvious academic drive:

(PS) "I hope I'm in Gryffindor, it sounds by far the best, I hear Dumbledore himself was one, but I suppose Ravenclaw wouldn't be too bad."

So we have Harry who was considered for Slytherin but put in Gryffindor for the qualities within him and Hermione likewise who was considered for Ravenclaw and put in Gryffindor.
So the two of them represent the qualities of three of the four houses.

The other interesting thing about that is the symbol of Ravenclaw is an eagle and the symbol of Gryffindor in a lion.
The eagle and lion are the two beasts that make up the griffin. Godric Gryffindor means "golden griffin".
Harry and Hermione working together and combining their talents are (symbolically) a griffin. (The griffin is also a parent of a hippogriff which they flew on).

According to the Magical Worlds of Harry Potter griffins:
"became a symbol of the dual nature (divine and human) of Jesus Christ precisely because of its mastery of earth and sky. The solar associations of both the eagle and lion favoured this positive reading. The griffin became the adversary of serpents and basilisks."

I think it looks suspiciously like Harry and Hermione are heirs of Gryffindor or of Gryffindor and Ravenclaw.

The fact that Hermione is Muggle-born doesn't preclude her from having wizarding heritage. Hagrid says in PS:

"Some of the best I ever saw were the only ones with magic in 'em in a long line o' Muggles - look at yer mum! Look what she had fer a sister!"

She may have wizard blood but just no wizards in her recent family history.

rwc

January 12th, 2004, 8:54 pm

[QUOTE=Loz]It's viable - but it isn't Harry - it's Luna!!! Luna is ultra special, ultra strange and just been brought in. It has to be her *hem hem*.

it cant be luna, shes in ravenclaw. sorry loz

Edward Lupin

January 18th, 2004, 9:27 am

Has this theory now gone to rot? Or is it still viable? Most of us (myself included) thought that Harry was Heir to Gryffindor and that's why Voldemort wanted to kill him. Turns out that wasn't the case. Of course, there is still the matter of the sword that Harry pulled out of the Sorting hat, "only a true Gryffindor" could do that.

What do y'all think?
i think i agree.. i mean, before the 5th book, i always think that Harry was Heir to Gryffindor, so that Voldie wanted to kill him..if there's no Heir of Gryffindor anymore, then it would be easier for him to rule Hogwarts

XMoonyX

January 18th, 2004, 4:18 pm

I always through that the heir is a blood relative (sp?)
Like Prince Charles is the heir to the English throne and if he dies it would go to that next living relative which would William.

I mean if you look back at the Kings and Queens of England with had number of different families. EG. Tudors the last one was Elizabeth I she had no heirs, when she died James Stuart King of Scotland became King James I of England his mother Mary queen of scots was Elizbeth 2nd cousin.

So if Harry is the heir he may not be from a deract (Sp?) line.

Nycade

April 14th, 2004, 12:37 am

I had always interpreted it as meaning that Harry did, indeed, belong in Gryffindor house, as you brought up, Raven. It surprised me, on the forums, to see how many people had come up with the other theory. I hadn't ever seen the idea that Harry's being "Gryffindor's Heir" could be a cause for Voldemort's going after him. I still don't think Harry is related to Gryffindor, but a point that could perhaps support some of the ideas you all have had...

Sirius said in book five that most of the pureblood families were interrelated. If Gryffindor was a fullblood (which seems probable), then he probably has multiple descendants. If not, the point's invalid, but it could be applicable to the theory about Harry.

jordmundt6

April 14th, 2004, 1:55 am

The theory's still possible, but it looks to be secondary. Still there was supposed to be one important thing in CoS that just got dropped and this looks like a good candidate. Just as Dumbledore was holding something back about Riddle's comparison and Voldemort's interest in Harry, I think he was holding something back with regards to the sword--"Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat" just seemed like a real downplay to me. It could just be me though.

Grapez

April 15th, 2004, 6:19 pm

I think it would be really corny if Harry turned out to be the heir of gryffindor.
BTW, to be an heir has two meanings:
- descendant (through blood)
- getting money or property or anything else when person X dies

Nycade

April 16th, 2004, 4:27 am

Gryffindor is already dead. It is possible (although I think very unplausible) that this was where James's money came from, but I sincerely doubt this - one, I agree with you, Grapez, that it would be fairly corny - I'd be so disappointed! Also, I believe J.K. said it had something to do with James's job, which, presumably, was unrelated to who Gryffindor's money went to.

Good thinking, though, Grapez!

fawkes5

April 20th, 2004, 8:29 pm

Originally Posted by Raven
Maybe the phrase, "a true Gryffindor" has two meanings. On the one hand, it was said to reassure that he did belong in Gryffindor, and on the other it was written in order to possibly hint and/or foreshadow something yet to come.

Harry is probably the most powerful student to come to hogwarts since it was founded. He is easily the most powerful Gryffindor, and he certainly embodies the traits that represent Gryffindor. Perhaps that is what makes somebody Gryffindor's heir. Not blood, but merit.

I like this, I know this sounds cliche but it's sort of like it's Harry's choices that make him a true Gryffindor.

I think what someone said, that in order for Harry to be an "Heir of Gryffindor" he must be genetically descended from Godric Gryffindor, is true. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that he would be a 'true' Gryffindor. I have always liked the heir theory because I couldn't think of a good reason that JK would admit to the Potters living in Godric Hollow would be important. Besides the phrase "kill the last Potter" smacks too much of a "blood feud" to me. What I didn't like was the fact that being heir automatically made Harry "the one". It seems too much like destiny and JK has been saying its ones choices that matter. So this idea of Harry being the heir but still having to make choices that make him a true Gryffindor seems like a very good one.

FirefightingMuggle

April 21st, 2004, 10:35 pm

I posted the same idea on another thread in the History of Magic, but I'll post the idea again here.

I think there is something to the idea of Harry being the heir of Griffindor, and all he would have to do to find some of the family tree at least is do what Hermione would do and consult a book.
In fact, JKR specifically mentions the book in OotP. When the Weasleys, Harry and Sirius are cleaning 12 Grimmuald Place, this creepy spiderlike thing starts to climb up Harry's arm and Sirius picks it off and smashes it with a book calledNature's Nobility: A Wizarding Geneology. She doesn't say how old the book is, or but it must be pretty thorough because she describes it as "heavy" (chapter 6 page 116 US edition)
So even if this book is say 100 years old, it would have to have something about Griffindor in it, seeing that he was one of the four most important wizards of his time. If Harry could get all the pieces from Griffindor's time up to 100 years ago, surely he could find someone that could fit together the rest of the pieces? I mean, if it say 100 years old, it was written with in Dumbledore's life time, and Dumbledore seems pretty up on things. Even if it's 200 years old, surely someone would be able to connect the dots here.
I think if Harry wants to find out if he is the heir of Griffindor, all he needs to do is pull a Hermione.
I don't think that JKR threw the title in just for something to do. She was obviously trying to do two things 1) show how important lineage was to the Black family and 2) drop a clue as to where Harry could find out more about his past. The title wasn't just thrown in. It was there for a reason. I'm sure that if it wasn't important JKR would have just said that Sirius smashed the creepy spiderlike thing with a heavy old book, and not "a heavy book entitled Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Geneology."

Amina

April 22nd, 2004, 12:23 pm

i get the feeling with that theory (and was one of the few theories i actually liked and thought there was something behind it other than wild speculation induced by many years without a book), that it was something she was maybe thinking about, but changed her mind.

i get the feeling she was going to go down that line, then decided that the idea of Voldemort chosing the bringer of his own downfall was better than somethign that was completely pre-destined.

however, this only ONE thing that i still find interesting and possibly gives weight to SOME connection between the potter family and godric gryffindor, and it follows thus:

Q. The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived, the first name -
JKR: Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you're a bit good you are, aren't you?

- BBC News interview Autumn 2000

Patrice

April 22nd, 2004, 12:33 pm

Yes, I find that intriging. You know you're on to something when J.K says I can't answer that or doesn't really answer the question. Like in that, she just said basically you're good - moving right along.
I love the whole idea of Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor, but if he is this then we have to realise that he has the powers of the Heir of Slytherin. Or one of their cool tricks anyways. Speaking to snakes. Its said that only the Heir of Slytherin can open the way into the Chamber and Harry did. So if he is Gryffindor aswell, then hey thats a whole lot of power residing in Harry's blood isn't there

Vequihellin

April 29th, 2004, 9:57 pm

I have been giving the whole prophecy/Voldemort thing a great deal of thought and have had to ask a number of fundamental questions:
1. Why Harry? What is so special about him?
2. Voldemort is the Heir of Slytherin, he has a unique power related to this: Parseltongue and is also a very powerful wizard this must therefore be related to his decendancy.
3. Which brings me around again to how exactly Harry has some great power. MOST wizards feel love and emotion, Harry is not unique in this which leads me to conclude that this 'great power' is something else.
4. We know all about the Red and Gold sparks in Ollivanders and Gryffindors sword

Looking at these questions you can probably see where I am going with this but let me elaborate a bit more:
It is my belief that if someone as odious as Slytherin can have an heir then is it not a fair assumption that Gryffindor will have too? Thus leading me on to the fact that if Tom Riddle (and his decendants if he hadn't turned nasty) can be an heir then it is not entirely unreasonable to assume that Harry may very well be heir to Gryffindor. This is of course pure speculation based upon circumstantial evidence but it is not entirely outside the realms of possibility and believeability. Which, if we take a step backwards begs the question: On whose side? Is it James Potter or Lily Evans who is decendant of Gryffindor? Canon evidence SCREAMS 'Lily Evans' based upon JKR emphasising the 'mothers' eyes' thing. I was also rereading 'Snapes worst memory' and came across an innocent line that I had not noticed before:

'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and Sirius eyed it warily.
'Ah Evans, don't make me hex you,' said James earnestly.
Did you see it? Let me point you in the right direction:
'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and Sirius eyed it warily.
'Ah Evans, don't make me hex you,' said James earnestly.
I wonder why? James and Sirius have proven themselves to be more than capable wizards and can battle Snape with ease. So why were the pair of them wary of Lilys' wand? Two accomplished wizards against one witch? Do me a favour, piece of cake. Unless there is more to it than that, unless Lily is indeed particularly powerful which, given what I said about Voldemort being particularly powerful would imply a connection would it not? The only problem with this theory is her apparent Muggle heritage hinted at by Snape when he called her 'Mudblood' and assumed by proxy from her relationship to Petunia. What if this isn't the case at all. What if Petunia is a squib and too ashamed to admit it? What if Lilys' parents preferred to live as muggles outside the wizarding community because one of them WAS a Muggle. What if, lets say Lily's mother was a witch and her father a Muggle, that would support this theory would it not? Since traditionally it is the Father that is the 'breadwinner' and thus essentially dicates the living circumstance of the family. Of course this is sterotyping but it proves the point that Lily may very well have grown up in the Muggle community because of her father. There aren't many jobs for muggles in the Wizarding world are there?

Now, let us assume that Lily IS the heir of Gryffindor. Waaaaaaaaaay back in medieval times (in fact right through history mostly), it is considered that Women CANNOT be heirs, that powerful men like kings and lords MUST have Sons to keep the family name going. Thus, what if Gryffindor (and Slytherin obviously) had some special amazing power but it was only passed on to MALE heirs, however it would lie dormant in female heirs, which would be supported by the fact that we know now that Voldemorts mother HAD to have been Slytherins heir but that she was not some evil Bellatrix-like character implying that she did not have the same power her son does.
Now lets say Lily's Mother was a witch, she would also have been heir to Gryffindor but she was a woman so this fabulous power lies dormant. (It doesn't really matter how far back you go, its really only the last three generations that count in this theory).

We KNOW that Lord Voldemort is subjectively 70 years old more or less which would mean that at best he would have been born about the same time as Lily's Grandmother. Now he didn't REALLY start becoming this all-powerful bane to the wizarding world until, lets say for arguements sake he was 25-30 (skipping over the first COS incident since it really only used his Parseltongue abilities). Let us assume he went straight into the dark arts after leaving school (supported by the murder of the Riddles). This would mean that the Heir to Slytherin was male and had come into his powers, but the heir of Gryffindor was female and thus could not. a Generation down the line and Voldemort is just beginning to rear his very ugly head but yet again the Heir to Gryffindor is female, now of course anyone decended from such prestigeous blood would be powerful but not necessarily have 'the special power' which seems to have been hinted at in the 'Snapes worst memory' quote. Voldemort starts to create havoc just as the third generation comes into being but THIS time the third generation is Male and thus would be able to wield this 'special power' and hence in Voldemorts lifetime, the only one with the power to vanquish him from the Gryffindor Bloodline is Harry, as the only male in the three generations, which I firmly believe is the reason why James wasn't the propesised 'one with the power to vanquish the dark lord' since being male he would have had this power but blatently did not which proves that it must have come from Lily. Am I making sense?

In conclusion:
Harry is Heir to Gryffindor on his mothers side
Lily's mother was a witch
Voldemorts mother was heir to Slytherin
The power is passed down through the blood but is only active in Males which is why it is Harry and not Lily (or James) with the power to defeat Voldemort.

How did I do? What do you think?

Vequihellin.

brighteyes

April 30th, 2004, 12:11 pm

Discordia

April 30th, 2004, 2:19 pm

Well it seems like there's a hell of a lot better chance of it being Harry than Neville or Ron. He did wield Godric's sword and defeat Salazar's serpent which is symbolic.

Runes

April 30th, 2004, 5:50 pm

Hm, I always thought Dumbledore could be the Heir of Gryffindor. Look at it: he's got Fawkes, who I think belonged to Gryffindor. He's got the sorting hat, Godric's sword. Plus, wasn't it Dumbledore who persuaded the Potters to hide in Godric's Hollow?

But then again, there's been so much interblood marriages, it would be almost impossible to trace the heirs of Gryffindor, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw.

Slytherin on the other hand only believed in pure blood marriages, so... maybe that's why its so easy to tag Voldemort as the Heir of Slytherin.

FirefightingMuggle

April 30th, 2004, 6:27 pm

But then again, there's been so much interblood marriages, it would be almost impossible to trace the heirs of Gryffindor, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw.

Slytherin on the other hand only believed in pure blood marriages, so... maybe that's why its so easy to tag Voldemort as the Heir of Slytherin.

I don't know, I don't think that it would be that hard to trace at least some of the lineage. It seems like at least one of the pureblood families is pretty hung up on who came from where and who married who.
Besides remember that book: Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Geneology I bet there are some clues in there. Unless of course Griffindor himself married a muggle. Then I doubt that there would be much information about his family, considering they wouldn't be "pure-blood" anymore.

wavy

April 30th, 2004, 6:35 pm

One of the major themes in HP is that blood doesn't matter.
Making Harry the Heir of Gryffindor would be a bad choice for Rowling.
Voldemort can be the Heir of Slytherin, because he is on the side that believes in such things, but to make anybody on the "good" side powerful because they are the heir of someone wouldn't work.
Also, Voldemort isn't powerful because he's the Heir of Slytherin, the only thing he has inherited is Parseltongue. He's powers are his own.

Exactly, and JKR even said once something to the effect that she doesn't like the idea of pre-destination, hasn't she? Or at least that she doesn't believe in the idea of being born great. Having the heir of Gryffindor being the person in the prophecy would go completely against that.

As far as Godric's Hollow being significant as the place where Harry lives, who knows why it's significant? It's easy to assume that the significance is that Harry is related to Godric, but there are probably a hundred other ways - some big and not so big - in which that could be significant. Just as when she said a fan of Harry's will die, JKR's clues always have more than one possible meaning.

Great red herring, though.

darklord_grindelwald

April 30th, 2004, 8:08 pm

I have two ideas (though I'm not really sure about them), I hope I won't repeat anyone's guessing:

1st: Maybe Harry's not the Heir of Gryffindor. But how about Dumbledore? He can be the Heir of Gryffindor. That's just an intuition, I don't have any ideas supporting this...

2nd: We have no proof that Voldemort was related to Slytherin by blood, 'heir' is not synonime to 'descendant'. Maybe Tom Riddle chose a path that made him the Heir. That would fit Dumbledore's words: it's our decisions show who we are (or sg. like that). Slytherin could make an Heir by putting some spells on many wizards that would be activated when a person turned to be a perfect candidate to complete the purification of Hogwarts. Okay, that's a bit weird, but I think Slytherin wasn't really certain that his blood would survive the centuries. So he had to think about something else.
Perhaps Gryffindor knew about that and did the same thing. He used the same spell as Slytherin's, a hidden spell that monitored the wizards. Many people wrote about the Black family tree and the interrelation between the wizard families and how few of them left. So it became easy for Gryffindor's spell (and Slytherin's one too of course) to monitor the magical world. The prophecy of the Chosen One wouldn't had mentioned that the One was the Heir of Gryffindor because he was not. Yet. Voldemort marked Harry and "activated" Gryffindor's spell. Maybe Gryffindor wanted to make his Heir stronger by "giving" him Slytherin's abilites too. But Voldemort got Gryffindor's abilities when he came back to power.

But if that's true, the One and the Dark Lord weren't equal after the marking proccess, but how could they be? Voldemort became weak and lost his powers (perhaps his 'slytherinish' abilites too), so it's hard to belive that they were equal. So the first part of the prophecy wasn't fulfilled entirely until Voldemort's resurrection. I wrote "not entirely", because the Dark Lord marked Harry, the boy didn't necessarily become the One. Because they were not equal. But hey were connected by Harry's scar.

So Harry was marked and lived thirteen years before the resurrection, but he was the Heir of Gryffindor and partly the Heir of Slytherin (he could open the Chamber of Secrets, but he could use the sword of Gryffindor too.). And thirteen years after the marking the Dark Lord returned with his servant's flash and the partly Gryffindor-partly Slytherin Heir's blood. He finally fulfilled the first part of the prophecy and the second prophecy too, he returned and made himself and Harry equals. So Voldemort became powerful again, sharing abilites with the One, but was cursed (he was drinking unicorn's blood), and was in the One's debt. These two guys are a bit interconnected, don't you think? :)

Well, that was a bit long, and even I'm not sure about the theory, but I was having fun while I was writing it. :) And I hope it was clear to you.

Vequihellin

May 1st, 2004, 8:46 pm

Very true, Heir is not synonymous with decendant. It is possible to appoint an heir that is not related by blood, I had overlooked this.

Darklord_grindelwald makes a very interesting point about the equality of Harry and Tom. To go as far as to say that it is related to a spell might be stretching the imagination but what if it has something to do with the Sorting Hat? After all, didn't JKR say it was significant and didn't the founders put some of themselves into the hat to sort the houses (It says it in one of the songs I think)?

Going back to Riddles diary it seems somewhat coincidental that the founders put part of themselves into the hat and Riddle put part of himself into the diary. The two things could essentially 'think for themselves' leading to the slightly tenuous conclusion that it is the same sort of magic at work in both. Let us assume that Tom Riddle is actually a blood heir of Slytherin for the purposes of this discussion (and based upon the scant evidence).
We also know that the diary put stuff into Ginny (i.e. the ability to speak Parseltongue to get inot the chamber in the first place - incidentally, I wonder if she still has that ability?) therefore it is not outside the realms of possibility that the sorting hat may have a similar ability. After all, it dropped Gryffindors sword on Harry's head, what if in that moment it decided that Harry was, by process of selection criteria, the heir of Gryffindor (see comment at top of post regarding decendancy), and imbued him with the powers of Gryffindor in order to fight the heir (and decendant) of Slytherin. Then, Harry carries on with the 'power of Gryffindor' now residing within. When Voldemort then uses his blood in the regeneration ceremony there is now a potential instability within Voldemort (overlooking, of course, his inherant mental instability LOL). Thus:

Harry has the power of Gryffindor
Voldemort has half-Slytherin, Half-Gryffindor unstable power.
Therefore, the Power of Gryffindor is one-up and the balance can be tipped in favour of Gryff.
Of course this overlooking the power of Slytherin that Voldermort transferred to Harry, however perhaps this is tempered and counteracted by this whole 'emotion/love/power-the-dark-lord-knows-not' business.

Having re-read that it doesn't really make a huge amount of sense but do you understand the idea I am trying to convey?

Veq.

Marie Lexis

May 2nd, 2004, 3:39 pm

I don't think that Harry is the heir of Gryffindor. It wouldn't have any point to the book. And I think that what it meant by only a true Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat was that you had to be loyal and brave. You had to be exactly how Gryffindor himself was.

figgy

June 2nd, 2004, 11:30 am

You know in Quidditch Through The Ages it says that Bowman Wright of Godric's Hollow invented the snitch, and Harry's parents lived in Godric's Hollow. Could this be why Harry and his dad are good seekers: because they're decended from Wright? And do you think that Godric Gryffindor lived in Godric's hollow?

Sescja

June 13th, 2004, 7:42 am

I think Dumbledore is the heir of Gryfindor, but whether he has any children or not to carry on after him i don't know, if not then if he dies Gryfindor dies with him.

I can agree that Dumbledore is an heir, but not necessarily the only heir. IF Dumbledore were to die, another heir may exist to take his place - and it is none other than Harry Potter. Each come from a different branch of Godrick Gryffindor's decendants.

For example: I will bring up the Black family tree. Sirius Black was the last male heir, but there were female heirs in Bellatrix LaStrange and Narcissa Malfoy and Nymphadora Tonks. Narcissa's son Draco is son of Lucius and therefore the heir of the Malfoy name. I am guessing that Arthur Weasly is not a male heir to the Black family.

But so often in finding an heir to a fortune, research is done to find other "possible" heirs to take on a family name tracing directly back to a common ancestor. This could be done for Gryffindor's heir.

From the midnight mutterings of a single voice in the great flood of "what-ifs" and "what-could-happens". Just because it hasn't been printed yet, doesn't mean it is possible for something to suprising to happen. More secrets of Hogwarts will be revealled.

fawkes5

June 13th, 2004, 9:27 pm

Yay! This thread is alive again.

I have always liked the Heir of Gryffindor theory. I think Harry is the heir (by blood/genes). I don't think being heir and being predestined by the prophecy to be the only "one" who can vanquish Voldemort negates the whole "choices and not abilities" thing.

jcuzo

June 14th, 2004, 1:39 am

yea, i always wished harry was gryffindor's heir because it would be a 'clash of the titans' almost. the thing that bothers me about that idea though, i dont like to think that salazaar was inherently evil for his radical beliefs, they were prejudicial, but i dont think that all slytherins are necassarily evil.

Hogwarts4evr

June 14th, 2004, 3:51 am

I think that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor (because he's a Leo, lived in Godric's Hollow etc). and that had something to do with Voldemort's decision making. He had to choose between Neville: a pureblood, both parents fighting against him, father is an auror where on the other hand he has Harry: halfblood, both parents fighting against him, parents jobs(? a possible threat), and James is a descendent of GG.

It all fits! That will explain a lot of things like why there's no Potters left other than Harry. LV killed them all because they threatened him. Voldemort doesn't go on senseless killing sprees! If someone/thing has important information/tools for power etc, Voldemort goes after them, finds them, and orders them to give the information if they don't, he kills them. If they do and they have served their purpose, he kills them. Innocent bystanders or people who get in the way can/ will be killed too. Look at his rebirth in GOF! The people he killed were Bertha Jorkins, Frank Bryce, & Cedric Diggory.
This theory will also explain why Voldemort didn't bother to kill Lily. Of course, Voldemort could have been lying when he said this in Book 1, but I disagree because of the dialogue in book 3 (I don't think many deatheaters accompanies Voldemort on personal killings. If he were to have taken one person on that trip, it would have been Wormtail. From the book's description it sounded like Voldemort was the one talking.) Lily was a Muggle & she wasn't a POTTER. Voldemort could have wanted a quick killing because of the possibility DD would show up. There's always the worst you know...:)

Wow what a long post! Glad I got that off my chest! Well at any rate, have fun! :)

~Hogwarts4evr

I <3 Ron

June 14th, 2004, 4:05 am

Harry being Gryffindor's decendent makes a lot of sense.

For one, J.K.R. mentioned that the Potter's fortune was due to inheritance (passed down by generations?).

It seems like history repeating itself also. Slytherin didn't exactly try to kill Gryffindor (at least, not that we know of), but there was the exsisting battle of who stays at Hogwarts (pure bloods vs. everyone else). We know that Voldemort is a desendent of Slytherin, so he could be out to avenge his ancestors, and carry on his beliefs (but in a much more brutal way).

They lived in Godric's Hollow. Possibly in Godric's old house? Maybe this was a part of the inheritance.

Harry wa able to pull Godric's sword out of the Sorting Hat. A lot of events have happened in this book due to blood, so maybe because of Harry's relation to Gryffindor, he was able to pull out the sword.

CaseyAlthea

June 14th, 2004, 5:20 am

Now, let us assume that Lily IS the heir of Gryffindor. Waaaaaaaaaay back in medieval times (in fact right through history mostly), it is considered that Women CANNOT be heirs, that powerful men like kings and lords MUST have Sons to keep the family name going. Thus, what if Gryffindor (and Slytherin obviously) had some special amazing power but it was only passed on to MALE heirs, however it would lie dormant in female heirs, which would be supported by the fact that we know now that Voldemorts mother HAD to have been Slytherins heir but that she was not some evil Bellatrix-like character implying that she did not have the same power her son does.
Now lets say Lily's Mother was a witch, she would also have been heir to Gryffindor but she was a woman so this fabulous power lies dormant. (It doesn't really matter how far back you go, its really only the last three generations that count in this theory).

.... the Heir to Slytherin was male and had come into his powers, but the heir of Gryffindor was female and thus could not. a Generation down the line and Voldemort is just beginning to rear his very ugly head but yet again the Heir to Gryffindor is female, now of course anyone decended from such prestigeous blood would be powerful but not necessarily have 'the special power' which seems to have been hinted at in the 'Snapes worst memory' quote. Voldemort starts to create havoc just as the third generation comes into being but THIS time the third generation is Male and thus would be able to wield this 'special power' and hence in Voldemorts lifetime, the only one with the power to vanquish him from the Gryffindor Bloodline is Harry, as the only male in the three generations, which I firmly believe is the reason why James wasn't the propesised 'one with the power to vanquish the dark lord' since being male he would have had this power but blatently did not which proves that it must have come from Lily. Am I making sense?

I would be horrified if this were the case. What sort of message would this send to little girls reading the books? (Wonderful powers will not belong to you, little girl, nor to your female children. If you're lucky, you may give birth to a boy who will be powerful ... So, the only way you can ever be the hero is through growing up and having male babies.) Yikes.

It's a fascinating theory, and it really makes logical sense! But I find these ideas about "special powers" and men very disturbing, myself. Sorry!

Still, just because it bothers me doesn't mean you're not right, Vequihellin...

bowlwoman

June 14th, 2004, 6:48 am

I think that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor (because he's a Leo, lived in Godric's Hollow etc). and that had something to do with Voldemort's decision making. He had to choose between Neville: a pureblood, both parents fighting against him, father is an auror where on the other hand he has Harry: halfblood, both parents fighting against him, parents jobs(? a possible threat), and James is a descendent of GG.

What if NEVILLE was the heir to Godric Gryffindor? That would be a plot twist I could get on board with.

If Neville was the heir, then it would only reinforce Rowling's concept of choices being more important than blood or the like. VM could have decided on Neville, a son in the pureblood, powerful family that is the heir to his own ancestor's best friend/mortal enemy, but he chose to mark the infant who more closely resembled his own life.

This would also be a way for Rowling to juxtapose the image of powerful, respected, legendary Godric Gryffindor with that of Neville, who (let's face it) doesn't have the reputation for being a stand-out wizard among his peers.

Maybe we'll just see Rowling's graveyard in book 6 and find the founders are buried there. Wouldn't it just rock if they found a tombstone for Godric Neville Gryffindor? :eyebrows:

bowlwoman

moon781

June 14th, 2004, 5:27 pm

ooh, I love that! Neville as heir of Gryffindor! Maybe that would silence Malfoy!

DarkMark27

June 14th, 2004, 5:46 pm

I don't like the theory of Neville being Heir to Gryffindor. Personally I Hate the Neville. I find his character an embarrassment to the wizarding world. If Neville was Heir to Gryffindor it would be quite a shock and would not say much for Godric Gryffindor himself.

moon781

June 14th, 2004, 5:48 pm

Alright Draco.

Neville is a better wizard than people believe. I think we will see this in future books.

DarkMark27

June 14th, 2004, 6:33 pm

He is a clumsy, forgetful, little boy. So for his sake I hope he becomes a better wizard...otherwise Voldemort will land him next to his parents in a hospital bed.

bowlwoman

June 14th, 2004, 8:09 pm

A lot of kids go through an awkward phase, especially toward the onset of puberty. Just because Neville is a little forgetful and clumsy now doesn't mean he always will be.

My best friend in high school didn't have a lot of off the cuff book smarts; she had to work EXTREMELY hard to make good grades (doing 5-6 hours of homework a night). All that hard work paid off though, as she graduated #11 in a class of 144. A lot of people wrote her off because she didn't have "natural" talent, but she made up for it in sheer grit and determination.

I see a lot of that in Neville in book 5. It's stated that he improved by leaps and bounds in the DA meetings, with only Hermione learning faster than he. That doesn't seem like the description of a young man who can only be characterized as bumbling, awkward and forgetful.

I also think a lot of his problems come from internalizing his parents' situation, living with a domineering grandmother (who I know cares for him, but who thinks that pushing him is the best way to advance his growth) and using his father's wand. His group of friends now know about his parents, I think the grandmother issue will become less intense as Neville continues to mature and grow and now he'll have to get his own wand.

Besides, we know nothing about Godric Gryffindor's adolescence. It's very possible he was just like Neville but grew out of it. If I were GG, I would MUCH rather have someone like Neville as my heir then someone like Draco.

bowlwoman

moon781

June 14th, 2004, 8:35 pm

Very true. Of course I am sure Salazar Slytherin would prefer Draco!

dhfroggy11

June 14th, 2004, 8:47 pm

Dumbledore is probably Heir to Gryffindor, it just seems like he would be, doesn't it?

But how old is he? I mean, he is like a hundred, isn't he? He was born after Salazar Slytherin, Helga Hufflepuff, Godric Gryffindor, and Renewa Ravenclaw? (Funny last names when you think about it)

mevam

June 14th, 2004, 8:54 pm

I'm not sure if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, because we likely would have heard a lot more about it if it were true. Snape, for one, would certainly have heard from James' constant gloatings if he were a descendant of Godric's, so since Snape doesn't mention it at all in his dealings with Harry, I think it likely Harry is not related to Godric. Neville is a possibility, because his grandmother is always being described as being a magnificent witch, so perhaps that is a hint to her "magnificent" past as being related to Godric.

moon781

June 15th, 2004, 4:38 pm

Well Harry doesn't necessarily have to be the heir from his dad's side. We know nothing about either side of the family. Maybe somewhere in Lily's ancestry a muggle married Gryffindor's great nephew or something.
Also I think if Harry is the heir, it is not well known, it is a secret.

Hogwarts4evr

June 16th, 2004, 1:31 am

QUOTE Made by Noblewoman:

If Neville was the heir, then it would only reinforce Rowling's concept of choices being more important than blood or the like. VM could have decided on Neville, a son in the pureblood, powerful family that is the heir to his own ancestor's best friend/mortal enemy, but he chose to mark the infant who more closely resembled his own life.

That's interesting Bowlwoman, but we don't have very much evidence to even consider that he is a descendant of GG except that he is brave and both of his parents are pureblood. Besides the Sorting Hat took a long time sorting him...[ch.7 pg 120 American edition]... that shows something special about him but as to what? I don't know. It could be that he is a descendant of Hufflepuff on one of his parent's sides. I had a feeling if Neville wasn't chosen for GH then he would be put in HH. Why HH? Because of his magical ability/confidence.

~Hogwarts4evr~

Elf

June 21st, 2004, 9:49 am

I am new here so sorry if I am repeating any ideas that have been previously introduced.

I think the idea of Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor is possible because it would bring the story full circle back to the founders of the school, who I think will definitely play a huge role in the resolution of the books. The idea of the Heir of Slytherin & the Heir of Gryffindor battling it out certainly would seem to be a continuation of the conflict between Salazar and the other founders of Hogwarts. Something in the next two books needs to make a connection back to what originally started all the conflict in the first place. The concept of Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor would appear to be a good way to do this.

I also had a theory that might be way off in left field, but I'll suggest it anyway. What if there is more than one "chamber"? JKR obviously uses a lot of wordplay in the novels. What if Gryffindor is interpreted as "Gryffin--DOOR"? In CoS when McGonagall takes Harry to Dumbledore's office, the door to his office is described as being oak with a brass door knocker in the shape of a griffon. This seems very significant to me. Perhaps these are clues that Dumbledore's office is actually Godric Gryffindor's chamber that parallel's Salazar Slytherin's Chamber of Secrets. The Chamber of Secrets contained a magical beast--the basilisk and the magical creature that inhabits Gryffindor's "chamber" is Fawkes the phoenix.

It could be argued then, that if two chambers exist that perhaps two heirs exist--the Heir of Slytherin and the Heir of Gryffindor.

The presense of Godric Gryffindor's sword also seems incredibly important to me. Has anyone else thought it was strange for a wizard like Gryffindor to have a sword? Wizards use wands to fight/duel while a sword is a weapon used by muggles. The sword, which can only be used by a true Gryffindor apparently, may not be solid proof that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor, however I do think the sword is going to resurface. I think that it is a distinct possibility that in the end Harry may have to use the sword to fight Voldemort. Perhaps in order to kill Voldemort he will have to draw from his muggle heritage rather than his wizard background. Both he and Tom Riddle/Voldemort are half-bloods, which seems significant. Voldemort and the Slytherins obviously value pure wizard blood, so it would be ironic for Voldemort to be killed by a muggle weapon rather than magic. This idea incorporates the issue of blood/heritage so I think that it lends some weight to the argument that Harry could in fact be the Heir of Gryffindor.

The past of the school is very hazy at this point and JKR has promised a lot of back history in the next two books. I think we will learn a lot about all of the founders of the school, Salazar & Godric in particular. The books are not just about the fate of the wizarding world, but also about Harry's personal quest. His backgound, including the lives of his parents, is extremely vague and I think he will learn much more in this area. As we experienced in Prisoner of Azkaban the connections Harry makes to the past are very emotionally powerful (to both Harry & the reader). Although there is no concrete proof that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor, it would make Harry's personal quest as a character very powerful if he was connected directly to Godric Gryffindor in this way. Perhaps Godric played a direct role in Harry's existence and the existence of Hogwarts. Think about it--a kid who didn't even realize that he was a wizard & knows nothing about his past discovers that he has a very rich heritage, one that can be traced back to someone who played a part in creating Hogwarts, the only real home Harry has ever known. Perhaps there is some legitimacy to Harry's feelings that Hogwarts is home. It seems entirely possible (but unprovable of course) that Harry's constant feelings of displacement will be solved by discovering that he really belongs at Hogwarts because he is descended from one of its founders.

Just some ideas, most of which are gut feelings and not proof of any kind, but it is very fun to speculate about what secrets Harry's past & future hold!

Scik

June 21st, 2004, 10:06 am

What about the Red/Gold sparks that flew from Harry's wand when he got it? House preminition or inheiritance hint? Pulling the sword from the hat might just be one of many clues. I think that Harry is the heir of Godric Gryffindor.

moon781

June 21st, 2004, 6:55 pm

I think these things are just there to reaffirm that Harry does belong in Gryffindor. Afterall, he has many Slytherin-like ties and qualities.

electricgrrrl

June 21st, 2004, 7:05 pm

Harry surely belongs in Gryffindor, but it is possible that he is not the heir (although I believe he is, but it's fun to play the devil's advocate sometimes). Just because he pulled Godric's sword out of the sorting hat doesn't mean that he's the heir, it just means that, like DD said, he is a true Gryffindor. If he weren't a true Gryffindor then he would not have been able to pull the sword. But there are lots of students in the house who could also be considered "true Gryffindor's". Whos's to say that one of these other students isn't actually the heir, Neville for instance. Like I mentioned, I believe that Harry is the heir, but I wouldn't put it past JKR to throw us a curve and have someone else ultimately turn out to be the heir.

starkitten4u

June 21st, 2004, 7:18 pm

maybe voldermort wanted to kill harry and james because they were the last in line for the heir of gryfindor thats why he didn't need to kill lilly?
Just an idea!!

electricgrrrl

June 21st, 2004, 7:23 pm

A good thought starkitten4u, but I think that the prophecy cleatly states that LV wanted to kill Harry because of the portion of it that he heard. Maybe he did kill James though because he may have been the next Heir.

CaseyAlthea

June 21st, 2004, 9:26 pm

The presense of Godric Gryffindor's sword also seems incredibly important to me. Has anyone else thought it was strange for a wizard like Gryffindor to have a sword? Wizards use wands to fight/duel while a sword is a weapon used by muggles. The sword, which can only be used by a true Gryffindor apparently, may not be solid proof that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor, however I do think the sword is going to resurface. I think that it is a distinct possibility that in the end Harry may have to use the sword to fight Voldemort. Perhaps in order to kill Voldemort he will have to draw from his muggle heritage rather than his wizard background. Both he and Tom Riddle/Voldemort are half-bloods, which seems significant. Voldemort and the Slytherins obviously value pure wizard blood, so it would be ironic for Voldemort to be killed by a muggle weapon rather than magic. This idea incorporates the issue of blood/heritage so I think that it lends some weight to the argument that Harry could in fact be the Heir of Gryffindor.

Fascinating. Perhaps GG was muggle-born, or came into his powers late in life. Why else *would* he have a sword?

Your theory about the door is really interesting too, Elf! However, perhpas DD is the heir, as the door to his office is the "Gryffin-DOOR."

no1 potter fan

June 21st, 2004, 9:31 pm

i dunno maybe he is

Elf

June 22nd, 2004, 7:25 am

I agree CaseyAlthea that it could in fact be Dumbledore who is descended from Godric Gryffindor. While there is a strong chance that Harry is the Heir, Dumbledore is the other character in the novels who could fit the profile. Whether or not either of them is actually a blood descendent I just have a strong feeling JKR will make some kind of connection back to the founders of the school, specifically Gryffindor. The story won't seem complete without that connection I think. It needs to go back to the beginning where all the conflict began.

I actually posted another theory concerning Godric Gryffindor in the thread about phoenix symbollism in the books that could tie in here. Here is what I proposed there...

What if Fawkes is actually Gryffindor himself? Perhaps Godric is an animagus and the creature he turns into is a phoenix. Even though he lived a 1000 years ago, it would be possible for him to still be alive because he would constantly be reborn as a phoenix, enabling him to live a very long life. If this is true, then Godric himself may still inhabit the room with the "Griffin--door." It would also mean that he could serve as a mentor to Dumbledore and if one of the characters is in fact the Heir the possibility arises that that person could have the opportunity to meet with Godric in the flesh. Dumbledore usually takes on the role of explaining everything at the end of each book, but perhaps Godric Gryffindor will serve in this capacity in book seven.

The argument I made for this is that Hermione points out in POA that there are only seven animagi listed on the registry for "this century," which implies that perhaps an important animagus from a previous century will surface later in the books. We all know Fawkes is red & gold, the colours of Gryffindor.

Also, in COS, when Fawkes comes to Harry's aid in the chamber Harry feels the "bird's golden claws squeeze his shoulder gently" when he says the phoenix's name. When I read this, it struck me as a very human actuion--to squeeze a person's shoulder reassuringly. Maybe it's nothing, but I have a hunch there is a lot more to Fawkes than we know at this point.

Now it could also be argued that if Godric is still alive in the form of Fawkes, that there is no "heir" because he is still around and doesn't actually need an heir to represent him as Salazar Slytherin did through Tom Riddle.

Regardless of whether Harry is the Heir or Dumbledore (another strong possibility as it has been pointed out) or if there is an heir at all, I have a strong suspicion that Godric is going to play a central role.

Supposing that Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor, but that another scenario exists, for example, Dumbledore is the Heir or Godric is still alive in the form of Fawkes, it seems that Harry's role could be to serve as a link between the Slytherin/Voldemort side and the Godric Gryffindor/good guys side in some way. He does possess qualities from both sides and his encounter with Voldemort certainly gives him the connection to both sides. What this type of role could mean, I'm not sure, but perhaps Harry's role won't be srtictly defined as being just on one side or the other, but set apart from everyone. Maybe that's just stating the obvious though.

Definitely there are a lot of different scenarios that could play out here and it's interesting to consider all the possibilities!

electricgrrrl

June 22nd, 2004, 2:59 pm

Great post Elf...I would have never put that together. Is it possible though for someone to transform into a Pheonix??? The Pheonix is a very mythical creature, and it would seem as though it is something that one couldn't transform into. But I could be wrong. Your post certainly gave me much to think about.

Elf

June 22nd, 2004, 8:45 pm

That's something I wasn't sure about either electricgrrrl. All the other animagi have been fairly normal creatures like dogs, cats, rats, etc. As far as I know JKR has never let us know if a wizard can transform into a magical creature. Maybe it's something she'll address later. It would be interesting to know a little more about how becoming an animagus works and the rules or limitations of that particular branch of magic.

Firebolt_2007

June 22nd, 2004, 8:59 pm

Ron! His whole family are Gryffindor!

Grærium

June 28th, 2004, 1:00 am

There can be more than one "true Gryffindor," and as for Harry being the "Heir of Gryffindor," I have seen no obvious proof that he isn't, NOR THAT HE IS. I'd love it to come true, the last heirs for both Salazar and Godric, and only one can survive. Ooh, that'd be exciting. :D :drool:

wavy

June 28th, 2004, 5:05 pm

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but "Heir" is not necessarily the same as descendant. In other words, Harry may be the "Heir" in the sense that he inherits GG's place in the wizarding world, but I don't believe for one instant that Harry is in some way related by blood to GG.

JKR has repeatedly emphasized that blood relations don't matter. If she turns Harry into a descendant of GG, she's just blown her own beliefs out of the water. Now why would she write something she doesn't believe in?

linzee4life

June 29th, 2004, 2:58 am

That'd be so cool for Harry to be the Heir. I mean Voldemort already is. That would just be the two heirs fighting against each other. But the only thing is weren't Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin best friends? Oh well.

mevam

June 29th, 2004, 3:14 am

When Dumbledore tells Harry about pulling the sword of Godric Gryffindor out in COS, "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat", I think that it does not necessarily link Harry to Godric Gryffindor in terms of being his heir. A true Gryffindor would fulfill the qualities that Godric held in high esteem, being of course bravery and courage, and that is what I believe allowed Harry to pull the sword out of the Sorting Hat. However, it is interesting to note that the sword was pulled out of the Sorting Hat and it wasn't carried by Fawkes or by some other method. Since the Sorting Hat had its wisdom pored in by the creators of Hogwarts, then Godric likely put some sort of charm to allow his sword to remain hidden in the hat until quote "a true Gryffindor" was able to pull it out. It is unclear whether Hermione or Ron, both being also brave, would have found it as easy to make use of the sword as Harry. That being said, I don't think that Harry being able to pull the sword out of the Sorting Hat can conclusively be linked to him being the heir of Gryffindor.

Grærium

June 29th, 2004, 3:51 am

Now that the sixth book title is out, I'm beginning to think this theory may be true, although it could be Voldemort. Either Voldemort or Harry is the "Half Blood Prince," or at least that's my theory on it. Could be a completely new character. :D:D:D:D *squeals with uncontainable excitement* :clap:

freschmer

June 29th, 2004, 3:55 am

I agree with wavy on this part:

JKR has repeatedly emphasized that blood relations don't matter. If she turns Harry into a descendant of GG, she's just blown her own beliefs out of the water. Now why would she write something she doesn't believe in?

Harry Potter, while a really good book series, is also about more than that. It's got a lot more meaning than you would probably get at first glance. So I find it as unlikely as wavy does that JK would write about something that she believes is wrong, even if it does make an interesting twist.
And also, if you read some of her interviews, JKR specifically says in them that Harry is not the heir of Gryffindor. Simple as that.

Gwenog Jones

June 29th, 2004, 4:00 am

Great posts Elf, you really got me thinking! The whole griffin on the door to dumbledore's office makes me think that Dumbledore is the heir. I never belived harry to be the heir of Gryffindor, i don't know it seemed kinda of corny to me.

MadMuggle

June 29th, 2004, 4:08 am

It would make perfect sense if Harry was Heir of Gryffindor. Everything would tie together...

ComicBookWorm

June 29th, 2004, 2:00 pm

This will tie together some theories I have been kicking around. Harry is the heir to Gryffindor. The reason JKR said his eyes were important is that Harry will find a painting of Godric Gryffindor with the same startling green eyes. The statement that only a true Gryffindor could have pulled out the sword will now have a deeper meaner than mere house assignment.

The Potter's were hiding in Godric's Hollow. JKR has said that the Potters had inherted their money and didn't need to work. Since Lily was muggleborn that would imply that James was the heir. But maybe Lily was an heir as well based on some forgotten line of her family. That would make Harry the heir from both sides of his family (wizard and muggle).

No one really needed to know or remember if Gryffindor was an ancestor of either James or Lily since 1000 years had passed. If the senior Potters (James's parents) lived in Godric's Hollow in some ancient home, they may have known their family went way back, but not trace it as far back as Gryffindor. 1000 years is a long time.

There is nice symmetry to the heir of Slytherin fighting the heir of Gryffindor. Even Dumbledore didn't know that Tom Riddle was the heir of Slytherin. So making Harry Gryffindor's heir is completely plausible.

Gryffindor could actually be the Half Blood Prince. Hence his insistence that muggleborn be included in Hogwarts.

If Godric Gryffindor was half and half, that would still allow for Lily to be muggleborn with the same green eyes as Godrick Gryffindor.

Then during the final battle with Voldemort Harry uses Gordric's Gryffindor's sword to somehow vanquish (kill?) Voldemort.

leoguy72388

July 1st, 2004, 2:31 am

My theory is that Harry is a relative of Godric and that Godric is an animagus and is living as Fawkes for the time being. This can be proved because in Fantastic Beasts it says that phoenix's are hard to domesticate, which means either it is Godric or that Dumbledore is just a really awesome wizard. If Godric is related to Harry and is living in Fawkes it would explain why he brought Harry the Sorting hat and knews that Harry would pull the sword out of it. Also the Potters live in Godric's Hollow, notice GODRIC. Maybe they inherited the land from Godric? ... But really, who knows ... only Mrs. Rowling that sly sly genius :p

flipfloputz

July 1st, 2004, 3:22 am

ComicBookWorm

July 3rd, 2004, 2:21 am

I agree with wavy on this part:

Harry Potter, while a really good book series, is also about more than that. It's got a lot more meaning than you would probably get at first glance. So I find it as unlikely as wavy does that JK would write about something that she believes is wrong, even if it does make an interesting twist.
And also, if you read some of her interviews, JKR specifically says in them that Harry is not the heir of Gryffindor. Simple as that.

I've got to disagree here about whether Harry is an heir. Here is what she said in the World Book Day Chat:

Jami: Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor?
JK Rowling replies -> People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is ;)

She winks. I don't know if she is giving a clue or just misdirection. But she could have said no and she didn't.

Dead Star

July 3rd, 2004, 2:46 am

At the end of the 2nd book, Dumbledore said that only a true Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat. By true, did he mean Gryffindor blood. Voldemort is the heir to Slytherin, and Slytherin and Gryffindor have the most animosity, so couldn't Harry be the heir to Gryffindor?

I believe the heir is Dumbledore. Think about it: Voldemort and Dumbledore, the two most powerful wizards of their time, both heirs of two of the founders. Slytherin hated those who weren't pure-bloods, and tried to keep the school clean of them, and built the Chamber of Secrets; Gryffindor was the opposite, he didn't care who came to Hogwarts as long as they could do magic. Voldemort opened the Chamber in an attempt to get rid of all non pure-bloods, while Dumbldore has been called a "muggle-loving fool."

Classical_Wizar

July 3rd, 2004, 2:50 am

the two most powerful wizards of their time, both heirs of two of the founders. where does it say that Dumbledore was heir to Godric?

Dead Star

July 3rd, 2004, 3:01 am

where does it say that Dumbledore was heir to Godric?

Oh no no, I meant as in "think about it."

fanfrancais

July 3rd, 2004, 3:07 pm

Dumbledore is heir to Godric but xhen i could explic why my tread closed
Dumbledore fight voldemort as godric fight serpentard ( in french is salazar serpentard but in english i don't save)
godric and salazar war the most sorcere in their time end now dumbledore and voldemort are the most sorcerer
sorry i speak verry baldy english because i'm french

fanfrancais

July 3rd, 2004, 3:08 pm

sorry , ithink that Dumbledore is heir to Godric

Tane

July 3rd, 2004, 3:15 pm

Does there have to be an heir to Gryffindor; well if there is I think it will Harry as this would explains his excitement at meeting him in PS. I mean as headmaster and a past Gryffindor student, it's not everyday you get to meet the heir to the house you belong to at Hogwarts. In a way Dumbledore is honored to see two possible heirs as he even looked at Tom's diary and said brilliant under his breath and to me he shows even more amazement to Harry that would make sense if Harry was the heir to Gryffindor.

rvnclwprft

July 3rd, 2004, 4:43 pm

I don't think that there can be another Heir to the Houses... JKR has already wrote about one and that is still a major plot, I don't think that she'd bring something that big into pass when she's only two books away from ending the series.

IceKat55

July 3rd, 2004, 5:05 pm

Harry surely belongs in Gryffindor, but it is possible that he is not the heir (although I believe he is, but it's fun to play the devil's advocate sometimes). Just because he pulled Godric's sword out of the sorting hat doesn't mean that he's the heir, it just means that, like DD said, he is a true Gryffindor. If he weren't a true Gryffindor then he would not have been able to pull the sword.

I think this, exactly. Harry is a "true" Gryffindor, but NOT the Heir. As I said in another thread, the Sorting Hat would not have hesitated on putting him in Gryffindor, nor even considered putting him in Slytherin, were he the Heir. I wouldn't think, anyway! :cool:

IceKat55

July 3rd, 2004, 5:53 pm

Another thought...I quite like the idea of Ginny being the heir (heiress). Fawkes (Godric himself??) appeared to help Harry in the CoS...to help Harry save Ginny. :huh:

thethirdman

July 3rd, 2004, 6:03 pm

As I said in another thread, the Sorting Hat would not have hesitated on putting him in Gryffindor, nor even considered putting him in Slytherin, were he the Heir.

Yeah, that's a good point. Harry would have been in Gryffindor as fast as Malfoy went into Slytherin were he actually the heir. Just please don't double post. You can use the edit feature to add something to the first post. :)

I never bought the idea that Harry was the heir. It just seemed to predictable. Personally if I had to pick an Heir I would say Dumbledore. He is the only wizard the heir of Slytherin ever feared. And since Gryffindor and Slytherin are portrayed as bitter rivals it makes sense to me that DD and Riddle could be the heirs of those houses.

flipfloputz

July 3rd, 2004, 7:50 pm

Yes, I think Dumbledore is the heir to Gryffindor, because, as stated previously*saying that makes me sound so professional* the Sorting Hat wouldn't have even considered Slytherin. I now doubt that Harry is the heir. It is probably DD

mozinha

July 4th, 2004, 2:38 pm

I think Neville is the heir. At the begining he was not that smart, not that good and definately not brave at all but even so the Sorting Hat put in on Gryffindor. Maybe he is the heir. He comes from a wizards family, and we don't find the Longbottom name on the Black tapestry, mixed with the other who were mostly dark wizards. I guess this could mean that his family comes from Gryffindor, the oposite side.

ComicBookWorm

July 5th, 2004, 1:08 am

Neville will be important. But when JKR started out he wasn't going to be, so being the heir wasn't on her agenda for him. His story is a story of growth so that the reader can see that a late bloomer who seemed hopeless can flower and grow into someting other than he was. I also think he is there to be one of the people close to Harry who dies heroically.

If it isn't Harry (and I still believe it is since JKR declined to shoot down that theory in her World Book Day Chat). I can see Ron the heir of Gryffindor since he has always been one of the main characters.

EDIT: I added this part about a day later. I just realized that if Harry is a GG heir (perhaps on both sides of his families), making him kind of a prince. Then Mark Evans would be sort of a half blood prince since he would get the inheritance from one side of the family.

ComicBookWorm

July 12th, 2004, 7:23 am

Well Mark Evans is certainly no prince or anyone else for that matter. And I still perfer that Harry gets his heritage from the muggle side via Lily.

I know many of you many have read this already. But the whole connection of St. Godric and the stag is stunning. Here is the link to the HP Lexicon essay on GG. I really recommend reading it. HP Lexicon Essay on St. Godric (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-stag.html).

AurorSlayer

July 12th, 2004, 10:38 am

Hmm.. I'm looking at the Weasleys or the Longbottoms to be the heirs. That sorting hat seems to typically place the Weasleys in Gryffindor for some reason. They all can't be that brave.

mozinha

July 12th, 2004, 10:44 am

I believe it's Neville. There's something about him. He was so shy and so bad at the classes and not brave at all and he was sorted Gryffindor. I guess this means something.

~Tonks~

July 12th, 2004, 10:50 am

I'm wondering if the theme of rebirth has anything to do with it...

Fawkes is a very important animal in that he gave feathers to both Voldemort and Harry's wands. A phoenix dies and is then reborn from the ashes. In OotP he eats Voldemort's spell and then is reborn. We see him burn and become reborn for the first time in CoS.

In a sense Tom Riddle was reborn as Voldemort... I can't remember where it is in canon but he was described as changing so much, no one knew him or could recognize him. Then technically he was reborn again, when he finally came back in GoF with a body.

I'm wondering if maybe... Harry is the heir of Gryffindor... and because Tom Riddle was the heir of Slytherin... Tom Riddle is in a sense, Slytherin reborn, while Harry is Griffindor reborn... and if this could play a part in having to do with something behind that door in the DoM???

Just throwing out crazy theories here... but who knows...

DarkThunder

July 12th, 2004, 10:56 am

I dunno about Neville...if he were the heir the hat would have sorted him into Gryffindor immediately, wheras he "took almost a whole minute".

(Im re-reading PS :P)

GodricHollow

July 12th, 2004, 11:26 am

Just the one thing, McGonagall in CoS says that Hogwarts was founded Four thousand years ago, that's got to be one heck of a heavy book if you've got to fit four centuries of history in it.

ComicBookWorm

July 12th, 2004, 1:39 pm

Just the one thing, McGonagall in CoS says that Hogwarts was founded Four thousand years ago, that's got to be one heck of a heavy book if you've got to fit four centuries of history in it.

One thousand not four thousand.

GodricHollow

July 13th, 2004, 1:32 pm

One thousand. Four thousand, she says it in the movie and that is what I was going on. I mean come on, they ain't going to let a slip like that get in right?

Well, as we seem fixated on plucking heirs out of the air then let me make a suggestion for the other two:

Hufflepuff: Diggory, probably not as its Helga Hufflepuff but he's the only one I know and give a monkey about.

Ravenclaw: Ludicrous I know, but Luna Lovegood? :rotfl: She's got to be in Ravenclaw for some reason... :huh:

ComicBookWorm

July 13th, 2004, 3:15 pm

Floria

July 13th, 2004, 4:06 pm

Okay...I'm joining this rather late in the game, but...

I have several theories about Harry being the heir of Griffindor. I think that this would make a great deal of sense, and I can't see anybody else being the heir, if there is one. What would be the point of making Neville the heir?

So, if Harry is the heir of Griffindor, and Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin, then maybe....

Okay, so, we all know that Harry's mother dying to save him is what saved Harry's life, however, we don't know what caused Voldemort to loose his powers. I make this distinction as it is made in COS by Harry himself.

"No one knows why you lost your powers when you attacked me," said Harry abruptly. "I don't know myself. But I know why you couldn't kill me. Because my mother died to save me...." COS Am version pp. 316

I think that this distinction is very important. Lily's magic wasn't the ONLY magic that was at play that night in Godric's Hollow. I think that the magic (some sort) of the Founders was there too. Specifically, that of Slytherin and Griffindor. Blood is important; we all know that. Maybe it is in more ways than one.

FreyaCrescent

July 13th, 2004, 4:35 pm

I think that Dumbledore is the heir of Gryffindor. Mainly because to have Harry as the heir seems far too predictable. It just seems... I don't know. Unimaginative. To me, it's much more interesting for Dumbledore to be Gryffindor's heir. Voldemort and Dumbledore "lead" the two dividing factions in the wizarding world, a little like Gryffindor and Slytherin when the Hogwarts founders began to divide. Voldemort fears Dumbledore more than any other wizard, I think it would be fitting if the one the heir of Slytherin fears is the heir of Gryffindor.

edina_monsoon

July 14th, 2004, 4:30 am

I don't think Harry is the heir to Gryffindor.

But, just for thought why can't his line still continue and the Dumbledores, for example, be descendants. The two most powerful wizards of the modern age, and one is known to be a descendant of one of the most powerful wizards from history... surely the other one could be also. Maybe this is why there is that bond between DD and LV - the only one he ever feared, just like the relationship between Slytherin and Gryffindor.

There you go, and NB, LV makes me think of Little Voice :lol:

Floria

July 16th, 2004, 5:11 am

I disagree for several reasons:

1. Harry lived in GODRICS HOLLOW and JKR herself has made a deal of this when asked ("you're a quick one, aren't you?"). She has said that it just might be important (in her hinting sort of way), and also said that her editor missed this (the connection). It seems to me that there is some meaning behind this. Dumbledore has no other known connection to Godric (other than having been a Griffindor himself).

2. The series is Harry Potter and the ..... I think that Dumbledore being so important in Voldemort's downfall (being heir of Griffindor, I would think his role would be large) isn't likely. It's gotta be Harry! (In my humble opinion, which is often incorrect).