Dumbledore not making eye contact with Harry.

[Dumblydorry]

Please close if this should not be a new thread.


Alright I need a little help understanding something here. Dumbledore explained why he wasn't making eye contact with Harry. He said that he knew Voldermort could be using Harry as a spy and he knew that Harry would want to harm Dumbledore. Now, in the end, when he was explaining things, he did look at Harry. How come he could look at him then? How did he know that Voldemort was no longer in Harry's mind??????? :??: There's probably something obvious that I am missing here. Please help!

[Inkwolf]

I think he was not looking at Harry then because he was ashamed at the admission he was making...

[pineapple]

I remember reading somewhere in the book (and I don't have it with me, so I can't reference it) that Dumbledore thought he could (or would if he had actually looked Harry in the eyes) see Voldemort peering back out of them, because Voldemort could posess Harry's mind towards the end.

That is all jumbly, and doesn't make much sense, but I remember that from the book. Am I wrong?

[Dumblydorry]

Thanks pineapple! That sounds familiar!!! Phew I feel so much better haha!

[MadMagic]

Yes, Dumbledore was concerned that Voldemort could be posessing Harry's mind and spying. But if that was the case, why didn't he start Occlumancy earlier. I mean, Dumbledore didn't make eye contact beginning with the hearing. I think Dumbledore made a mistake in leaving Harry alone with his problems for so long. He didn't seem concerned about Harry until the Arthur Weasley thing occured. I wish he had done something earlier, since he obviouslt suspected something like that to happen.

[AutumnCro]

Maybe that's the significance of the color of Harry's eyes. Maybe Voldemort was using Lily the same way that he's using Harry?

I think what happened is that when that snake thing happened at the Ministry of Magic...when the snake was wrapping itself around Harry...this was the snake that Harry kept feeling in his body. I think Voldemort had this snake spirit or something in Harry's body and this was the spy. I think it left Harry's body when Voldemort left (temporarily perhaps) and that's why Dumbledore was able to look at him normally at the end.

Also, DD basically tells Harry that he loved him. He also knew that it was WELL past time to tell Harry everything and was ashamed of this. He probably also knows what other troubles Harry is in for. He was probably trying to distance himself from Harry because he loves him so much he can't bear to see what he's going through. He also probably feels very responsible for it.

[dan_r]

i still dont think he has told Harry everything... still stuff to come i reckon

[pineapple]

I think Dumbledore should tell Harry everything, espescially since we know how deep Harry's involvement is actually going to run, with the prophecy and all. I would have demanded all of the information from the begining....

Dumbledore did admit to making an "old man's mistake" in not telling Harry earlier.

[Endangered]

I guess the magic to do with the eyes is all figured out. Now we know how Harry sometimes felt that Dumbledore could read minds, the same with Snape.

I think Dumbledore was afraid of what he might see in Harry's eyes, hence the avoidance.

[dan_r]

Originally posted by Endangered (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=394831#post394831))
I guess the magic to do with the eyes is all figured out. Now we know how Harry sometimes felt that Dumbledore could read minds, the same with Snape.

I think Dumbledore was afraid of what he might see in Harry's eyes, hence the avoidance.


Thats very true about being able see something in his eyes he did not want to

[Runes]

But its still not clear! Dumbledore was not making eye contact with Harry because whenever he did make eye contact (when he was sending Harry to Sirius's using the kettle portkey) Harry felt a strong urge to hurt Dumbledore. Okay, so that was Voldemort sort of possessing Harry's mind. But later, after the battle in the department of mysteries, how come Dumbledore can look at him so freely? Why didn't Harry feel an urge to hurt DD then? -_-;

Anyone care to explain?

[seerius]

I can only guess, but it occurred to me that it could be because Voldemort was so busy sorting out the loss of the prophecy, that he woudln't be concerned with what harry was up to.

My other thought is that what DD tells harry at that particular moment was so heavily laden with emotion, that Voldemort wouldn't have been able to to divine harry's thought without great pain...

[Tomsk]

Maybe its because after Voldie possesed Harry in the MOM, he realised Harry is full of love so he couldn't stay in his body, and he had to take his legilimens (or whatever) thing off him, so he wasn't inside Harry anymore, which meant Dumbledore could look at him.

[Runes]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if DD makes eye contact with Harry at the start of the next book or not. It would be strange if Voldie just leaves Harry alone like that.

[Jaded_Wanderer]

Originally posted by AutumnCro (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=393166#post393166))
Maybe that's the significance of the color of Harry's eyes. Maybe Voldemort was using Lily the same way that he's using Harry?

I think what happened is that when that snake thing happened at the Ministry of Magic...when the snake was wrapping itself around Harry...this was the snake that Harry kept feeling in his body. I think Voldemort had this snake spirit or something in Harry's body and this was the spy. I think it left Harry's body when Voldemort left (temporarily perhaps) and that's why Dumbledore was able to look at him normally at the end.

Also, DD basically tells Harry that he loved him. He also knew that it was WELL past time to tell Harry everything and was ashamed of this. He probably also knows what other troubles Harry is in for. He was probably trying to distance himself from Harry because he loves him so much he can't bear to see what he's going through. He also probably feels very responsible for it.



I LOVE this theory!! It all fits - especially the thing about Lily's & Harry's eyes.......not gonna be able to stop thinking about this now lol

LOL forgot to answer the question!! (This is an edit) Anyways, I think Dumbledore had to emotionally distance himself from Harry as well as physically, so that Voldemort couldn't see everything he was thinking, feeling and doing. In the time that Harry & Dumbledore did make eye-contact, Harry nearly struck Dumbledore. By keeping his distance, Dumbledore wasn't only keeping himself safe for the OotP, but also hiding the Order's info & plans. I thought Dumbledore was a skilled Occulmens (sp?), though, so this explanation doesn't entirely satisfy me, but it's the best I have at the moment.....

[sscourtney]

Well my thought is too that Dumbledore wanted to make distance from Harry and he could only do so by pretending to ignore him...
And I guess Voldemort could only posses Harry while he had nothing else to do,that's maybe why Harry could look at DD then.

[Starseyer]

I think I remember DD saying that the reason he was distancing himself from Harry was so that Voldemort would not know of the special friendship between them and would not therefore push harder to gain control of Harry. This is how I understood it anyway. I think the reason that DD could make eye contact with Harry at the end of the book was because Harry was now aware that Voldemort could get into his mind so therefore he could resist (or at least start learning to resist).

[JenJen]

I think he looked at Harry in the end for a few reasons. He knew that Voldemort knew Harry and Dumbledore were closer than just Professor/student when they were at the ministry, so there was no point in hiding that anymore. Also, I think he felt that he owed it to Harry to look at him, because he was ashamed of himself for not telling Harry everything earlier. I think he felt that letting Harry know exactly how much he cared about him was more important to him than not letting Voldemort know what he was saying to Harry.

[Yavanna]

Yeah, at the end he knew that Voldemort was no longer working through Harry's mind...he had been trying to in order to lure Harry to the Department of Mysteries with the threat of Sirius dying, and after that actually took place, he no longer needed to use Harry's mind. After that, Dumbledore could look at him. I just wish he would have explained himself to Harry!

[Imperio! (Crucio!)]

i dont think he was looking at harry por 2 reasons...

1. he was ashamed of tha fact that he didnt tell harry sooner about his past

2. incase voldie was possesing harry and was trying to use ligillements[spl?] to find information inside of dumbledore.

[Filia Tenebrarum]

It's never made quite clear why Dumbledore could look directly at Harry after the big climax but not before. The reason why Dumbledore distanced himself from Harry earlier was that Voldemort was at least partially reading Harry's mind. Dumbledore didn't want Voldemort to see that he was close to Harry, so as not to give Voldemort a reason to posess Harry.

But afterwards, Voldemort had tried posessing Harry and (metaphorically) burnt his fingers rather painfully. There was no point in Dumbledore trying not to give Voldemort incentives to posess Harry, because Voldemort now had an incentive to posess Harry, had tried to posess Harry, and couldn't bear to. The chances were that after getting his fingers burnt once, Voldemort wasn't going to try it again in a hurry.

Also, I think that Dumbledore had just about got to the point of throwing caution to the winds. He had seen the damage that his cautious and prudent, trying-to-keep-everybody-safe strategy had caused, he had realised he had been making up excuses for years to not tell Harry what was really going on and he saw it was time to come clean, regardless of the dangers there might still be.

I'm not sure the above explains it any better than the actual book, but I hope it clarifies it a bit.

[FredRocksMySocks]

I think that it was mostly Harry who wasn't making eye contacts. And if I am wrong, I'd speculate to say that he was just ashamed of the mistakes he has made, or too upset to look harry in the eye...because he knew harry was still so angry with him.

[kfingers]

The theory about DD not wanting Tom to know about how close he was to Harry is important. He does not want Voldemort to realize how important Harry is in the destruction of Voldemort. This is the reason for them not wanting Tom to see the prophecy or Harry for that matter. If Harry looked into DD's eyes then theoretically Tom could see the propecy because Dumbledore was the one who received it. Then he would know that Harry is the key to his own destruction. At the end, Tom wraps around Harry in the form of a serpent to see if DD would risk killing both of them. This is a both a victory for VLDMT (because he finds out Harry's importance to DD), and a revealing of his greatest weakness. He does not understand love. He does not understand that Dumbledore would not risk killing harry even if it meant Toms death as well. I think Toms inability to understand love and bonds of friendship is what will ultimately kill him, but he now has an understanding of the prophecy which is what I think Dumbledore wanted to keep him from, and is why he would not look in his eyes. Or I could be off.

[hoosier101]

At the end of the book, Dumbledore loks into Harry's eyes when he talks to him. How? Did we not go through the whole book learning how Dumbledore could see a flicker of He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named in Harry's eyes. It asn't like Voldy-thingy was gone; he was still out there and could have been listening to everything Dumbledore was saying. The prophecy, everything. Voldy-whatsits could know everything!

[crisc312]

No, I think after the whole event in the Ministry of Magic, Harry was able to repel Voldemort so strongly that Voldemort completely left Harry alone for awhile after that incedent. Voldemort was not posessing Harry when he and Dumbledore had their little conversation, so he could not have heard the conversation and known anything.

[harp230]

Also, Dumbledore has realized the pain he has caused Harry by not being direct. Dumbledore realizes it was a mistake for him to basically ignore Harry of Harry's own good.

[corgi]

You know, I thought the same thing. DD went through the whole book not looking at Harry in the eye, and the few times he did Harry could feel VM rising up in him. And then suddenly at the end they could look at each other without anything happening. I have been thinking about it quite a bit and have not yet come up with a satisfactory explanation.

[GryffindorGal]

Dumbledore also said that in the end it didn't matter that Harry didn't learn occulmency. .it was his heart that saved him. I think that's what is keeping LV at bay. Prior to that .. the other times when LV would "rise up" .. there was nothing there to shut him out

[Weatherby]

I've merged the threads about Dumbledore looking at Harry and when he finally does in the end. :)

I agree with MadMagic.
Dumbledore shouldn't have left Harry alone. Of course had his reasons which were understandable. And he may be right. Voldemort might have used Harry to get at him. We don't know what would've happened then..
But he realised helping Harry couldn't be ignored in the end at least.

[meowd'ib]

Maybe ... strong emotion seems to drive Lord Thingy away and at that time Harry was extremely emotional. His distress because of his love for Sirius and his willingness to die for the good of destroying Voldythingy... Harry's strong emotion kept him out and therefore Dumbledore could look him in the eye... just a thought.

[Merenwen Nenharma]

Ok, I have been wondering this since I finished OotP. All throughout the book, Dumbldore has been avoiding meeting Harry's eyes, for fear that Voldemort might see how close they are and try to use Harry to get to Dumbledore. So then why, at the end when he won that duel against Voldemort, did he start loking at Harry again. Its not like Voldemort was dead, or he can't get into Harry's head anymore. SO then why did he think it was safe enough to look at him?

[Shadowfire76]

Hrm that a very curious point you have there. Why didn't Harry feel Voldemort stirring inside him then?? All the previous times he had made eye contact with Dumbledore during the year he had felt the urge to strike out and attack Dumbledore. Maybe since Harry was so angry at Dumbledore anyway he didn't recognize the anger welling up inside him as maybe being some of Voldemort's feelings.

***EDIT: Something else also just occurred to me. Voldemort left Harry's body because he could feel the love that Harry felt for Sirius. Maybe Voldemort was steering clear of trying to see into Harry's mind because he knew that Harry's emotions (especially love) would be running high right after that. Or maybe Voldemort tried to get into harry's mind only to find it filled with all the emotions that he hates and backed off. Maybe Dumbledore figured on that happening. Or maybe Dumbledore has the power to see what is going on inside Harry's mind and know that it is not being invaded by Voldemort at that time.***

[Prdmudblood]

Because he realized that Voldemort can't really take over Harry. Remeber that Harry's full of a power that hurt's Voldemort. If Voldie tried to kill DD with Harry that power would kick in, and Voldie would get hurt.

[Jill]

Because he realized that Voldemort can't really take over Harry. Remeber that Harry's full of a power that hurt's Voldemort. If Voldie tried to kill DD with Harry that power would kick in, and Voldie would get hurt.

Good point there Prdmudblood, I think that might be exactly why Dumbledore could look at Harry. Perhaps it could be a combination of the spell Dumbledore cast on Voldermort. You know the one spell that made that gonging hollow sound. Perhaps the sound was refering to the fact that Dumbledore had found a spell to break that control that Voldermort had on Harry.

I think it could be a combination of both. Perhaps that is another reason as to why Voldermort could not posses Harry that day as well as he could before. I know he was thinking of being with Sirius but I think it might be a combination of more than one event taking place that caused Voldermort to loose his grip.

Prdmudblood your explanation is short but sweet though too me.

[periwinkle-blue]

Hmm... interesting :)

Anyway,perhaps you guys might be interested in the thread Dumbledore not making eye contact with Harry. (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11357) I'll ask a Prof to merge both threads, alright?

[NorthStar]

Ok, I have been wondering this since I finished OotP. All throughout the book, Dumbldore has been avoiding meeting Harry's eyes, for fear that Voldemort might see how close they are and try to use Harry to get to Dumbledore. So then why, at the end when he won that duel against Voldemort, did he start loking at Harry again. Its not like Voldemort was dead, or he can't get into Harry's head anymore. SO then why did he think it was safe enough to look at him?

Because LV now knows that DD cares more about Harry than an ordinary pupil-teacher relationship. LV tested that when he possessed Harry in the MOM and DD wouldn't kill Harry, even if it meant LV would perish too.

All year DD hasn't looked at Harry because he doesn't want LV to know that theirs is a close relationship, but now LV knows anyway there is no need to hide it.

[OrbitingElle]

There was one line that really stuck out to me... When Dumbledore made Ron a prefect and Harry thought something along the lines of "Dumbledore couldn't be in his right mind" to do that. I'm still not convinced that something *weird* wasn't going on with Dumbledore himself, not just Harry-with-Voldemort-in-his-head.

[Hermiony]

I believe that the reason that Dumbledor could look into Harry's eyes in the end was because now that Harry knew what was going on he could stop Voldemort from using him to spy on him. On page829 in "The Order of the Phoenix" harry says:
"But I didn't," muttered Harry. He said it aloud to try and ease the dead weight of guilt inside him; a confession must rurely relieve fome of the tirrible pressure squeezing his hear. "I didnt practice, i didnt bother, i couldve stopped myself havihng those dreams, Hermione kept telling me to do it, if i had he'd never have been able to show me where to go-- sirus wouldnt --sirus wouldnt'
so maybe he wwas now able to controlle it or it could be that because the prophasy was distroyed Voldemort was so upset that he could not use Harry.

[Geneva]

He started making eye contact again because he realized he'd been stupid; hiding from Voldemort by not staying close to Harry had done nothing to help anyone, obviously, with the death of Sirius in OotP. Therefore, he decided he'd change what he'd been doing.

That's my opinion.

[jordmundt6]

Actually, I think there might be an obvious answer to this involving several parts.

1. The prophecy record has been destroyed.

2. Voldemort does not know or has not considered that Dumbledore has or might have a Pensieve and therefore thinks the Prophecy is lost. So, listening in on Harry's thoughts for that would be a waste of time. Remember what Lucius said "the Dark Lord thought you would want to hear the exact wording" I'm not even sure the DEs know what a Pesieve is.

3. Independent of that--Voldemort had just been through something very frightening. He'd possessed someone who was willing to die, who WANTED to die--and for UNSELFISH reasons. He'd been burned again by a love even more powerful than Lily's and he had nothing to mitigate or protect him from its touch. He recoiled and fled instantly and probably wouldn't want to try to possess Harry again soon for fear of coming in contact with it.

Now, as to the rest of it--Dumbledore made a shrewd decision about Prefect. He figured, quite rightly that what with Order business intruding on his life, OWLs and Quidditch, Harry would have more than enough on his plate to keep him occupied and would not be able, or perhaps woudl be unwilling to perform his Prefect's duties properly. He chose Ron as a substitute basing probably on a little of Ron's record and on his potential. Unfortunately Ron failed about as miserably as you could fail at being a Prefect and not be manipulating the post out of malice.:rolleyes: I hope he improves a lot next year, but I don't see it happening. Dumbledore was also clearly aware that Harry deserved the honor but--see above for reasons he did not burden Harry with it.

It is worth noting that Harry, in spite of looking down on the first years like Ron does, has a friendly and fraternal attitude toward them that could serve him well as a kind but firm authority figure, helping them follow the rules while simultaneously putting them at their ease and it would work well now because they wouldn't be scared of him as a maniac, just in awe of him as The Boy Who Lived. Oh well, opportunity lost.

As to Occlumency--Dumbledore probably figured, and rightly so that so long as Voldemort was unware of the uninvited guest in his mind, the danger was not pronounced and the benefits were potentially tremendous. I guess that's all from me for now.

[Marcy]

"In the end it did not matter that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you."

I don't think Voldemort will be possesing Harry anymore. Whatever "substance" (love?) that Harry is filled with Voldemort cannot stand, and DD knows that.

[Baron_G]

Harry was in pain whilst in DD's office. The headmaster could see that and have known that Voldemort couldn't possibly abide using those emotions of guilt and loss to enter Harry's mind again. Which is why he calls the pain Harry was feeling his greatest strength.

[GryffindorSeeker]

I think that the reason that Voldemort would rise up in Harry when DUmbledore made eye contact with Harry may have been so that he could see what was in Dumbledore's mind.

[jordmundt6]

That might be true, but it could have been merely returning the favor to Harry (spying through him just as Harry had spied on the DEs through Voldemort). See my previous posts as to why Voldemort had at least temporarily abandoned his enterprise.

[Spirit]

Harry was in pain whilst in DD's office. The headmaster could see that and have known that Voldemort couldn't possibly abide using those emotions of guilt and loss to enter Harry's mind again. Which is why he calls the pain Harry was feeling his greatest strength.

Good point Baron_G! :)

[Jill]

That is a really good point there. Another reason for Dumbledore perhaps looking at Harry, is due to the fact that Harry was in such a state that he could have harmed Dumbledore whether or not Voldemort was present. In simple terms Harry wanted to attack Dumbledore with or without Voldemorts help so Dumbledore probably thought there was no point in not looking directly at Harry.

[Zachary1993]

He looked at Harry because he had to tell him something serious. He had to tell Harry about the Prophecy and it was proper to look Harry in the eye when he was explaining about the Prophecy. He knew that he would risk Voldemort controling Harry's mind but he had to respect Harry when he was talking about somthing serious. Harry felt that Dumbledore was partly responsible for Sirius death so to gain Harry's trust again he had to look at Harry's eyes and explain everything otherwise Harry may not have listened or cared. He stopped caring when Sirius died.

[MadMagic]

At that point I don't really think Harry was really at risk for Voldemort to invade his mind. Voldemort had just suffered a major setback in his plan. He was probably more worried about regrouping at that point.

[Runes]

This has been bugging me for so long. I did a search but couldn't find any topics that answered this.

So

Throughout OotP, Dumbledore doesn't make eye contact with Harry. He can't even touch him, because it somehow wakes up Voldemort-feelings within Harry.

But after the MoM battle, Dumbledore can freely make eye contact with Harry and Harry's fine. So what happened in that battle? Why didn't Harry get hateful feelings in the end? Was it because there was something like a 'trace' of Voldemort within Harry throughout the book, which made Harry get those feelings, and after Harry's body rejected Voldemort from possessing him, this 'trace' disappeared as well? I'm so confused!

What are your views on this?

[Veronika]

I personally still think that within the next book he's still going to possess Harry. He'll have to study Occlumency futher...Jo is hinting that Harry isn't going to have a pleasant time from whats going to happen. Though to your question...I haven't the slightest idea, good question though. Hopefully someone will come here and answer it haha because now I wanna know.

[kuyooper]

Hi runes.

My interpretation was this:

Throughout OotP, Dumbledore limited contact with Harry for fear that Voldemort would possess Harry while Harry was in Dumbledore's presence. The goal was that Dumbledore would kill Harry in the hopes of killing Voldemort also.

This theory was shown to be true on the few times they did make eye contact in OotP. Voldemort did begin to possess Harry during those few fleeting instants. But those instants never lasted long enough to find out what we did in the Department of Mysteries. In the Department of Mysteries, Voldemort finally had his chance to try out this idea all the way. He discovered 2 things. First, he found it totally unbearable to possess Harry. Secondly, he found that Dumbledore would not attack Harry in the hopes of getting Voldemort too.

After this, Dumbledore realized that he did not have to worry about limiting contact with Harry. There actually was no real threat of Voldemort possessing Harry afterall.

[Barbara Kennedy]

See this thread?

Dumbledore not making eye contact with Harry. (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11357)

If you have trouble using the search function, try the tutorial provided here. Tutorial: The Search Engine (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=31651)
If you still have trouble, just send me an owl and I’ll help search. ;)

[HBPrincess11]

yeah, was voldemort possessing harry only in that short time in the MoM?

[Veronika]

yeah, was voldemort possessing harry only in that short time in the MoM?


I wonder whether he's possessing Harry when he's not even aware of it. I remember back towards Christmas time when Mr. Weasley was in the hospital he thought that too and was going to runaway so everyone was safer...I think he was right, perhaps he sees more than it seems.

[kuyooper]

Voldemort is not continuously possessing Harry. It causes Voldemort unbearable pain to possess Harry for any length of time, because Harry has 'so much of the force that he [Voldemort] detests.'

[Veronika]

Voldemort is not continuously possessing Harry. It causes Voldemort unbearable pain to possess Harry for any length of time, because Harry has 'so much of the force that he [Voldemort] detests.'


Oooo thank you then, didn't know that. :cool:

[Psycho]

When Harry and Dumbledore met eye contact surely it would stir up some good feelings in Harry since Dumbledore is one of the closest people to Harry, surely then, couldn't Voldy sence this and try to posess him for a bit to attempt to attack Dumbledore?
Also maybe Harry still has part of Riddles/Voldemorts soul in him, that way part of him would want to kill Dumbledore too.

[kuyooper]

Originally posted by Psycho
couldn't Voldy sence this and try to posess him for a bit to attempt to attack Dumbledore?
Attacking Dumbledore was not Voldemort's goal in possessing Harry. His goal was to get Dumbledore to attack Harry.
Dumbledore to Harry, From Order of the Phoenix, US hardcover page 828:
"Voldemort's aim in possessing you, as he demonstrated tonight, would not have been my destruction. It would have been yours. He hoped, when he possessed you briefly a short while ago, that I would sacrifice you in the hope of killing him."

[dirty_harry]

Hi runes.

My interpretation was this:

Throughout OotP, Dumbledore limited contact with Harry for fear that Voldemort would possess Harry while Harry was in Dumbledore's presence. The goal was that Dumbledore would kill Harry in the hopes of killing Voldemort also.

This theory was shown to be true on the few times they did make eye contact in OotP. Voldemort did begin to possess Harry during those few fleeting instants. But those instants never lasted long enough to find out what we did in the Department of Mysteries. In the Department of Mysteries, Voldemort finally had his chance to try out this idea all the way. He discovered 2 things. First, he found it totally unbearable to possess Harry. Secondly, he found that Dumbledore would not attack Harry in the hopes of getting Voldemort too.

After this, Dumbledore realized that he did not have to worry about limiting contact with Harry. There actually was no real threat of Voldemort possessing Harry afterall.

exactly this is what i believe is the reason

[stepha_hpfan]

In OotP Dumbledore explain that the cause he doesn`t saw Harry directly to eyes last months was because he doesn`t wanted that Voldemort find out that their relationship was more deeper than master-student...

These means that it wasn`t that Dumbledore can`t no make contact with Harry he just don`t wanted to give Voldemort imformation about him or the order. :td:

After the duel between Voldemort and Dumbledore, Voldemort concluded that the relation between Harry and Dumbledore was deeper than it seem

So the effort that Dumbledore make during the year was unnecessary because Voldemort get noticed about this connection the moment Dumbledore protect Harry. :huh:
ok?

[Runes]

Hi runes.

My interpretation was this:

Throughout OotP, Dumbledore limited contact with Harry for fear that Voldemort would possess Harry while Harry was in Dumbledore's presence. The goal was that Dumbledore would kill Harry in the hopes of killing Voldemort also.

This theory was shown to be true on the few times they did make eye contact in OotP. Voldemort did begin to possess Harry during those few fleeting instants. But those instants never lasted long enough to find out what we did in the Department of Mysteries. In the Department of Mysteries, Voldemort finally had his chance to try out this idea all the way. He discovered 2 things. First, he found it totally unbearable to possess Harry. Secondly, he found that Dumbledore would not attack Harry in the hopes of getting Voldemort too.

After this, Dumbledore realized that he did not have to worry about limiting contact with Harry. There actually was no real threat of Voldemort possessing Harry afterall.

Finally, the best explanation to this question! Thanks kuyooper! :) Now everything makes so much sense. This was one thing that no matter how many times I've re-read OotP, I still couldn't understand, and none of my own theories were satisfying. Your explanation's great.

I was beginning to think that we were going to have to wait for the sixth book and see if Voldemort tried to possess Harry then in order to get some answers for our question, but now its all settled. I'm going to re-read the fifth book again with this theory in mind. Then I won't be confused :bounce:

[kuyooper]

thanks! glad i could help

[chyllis]

Here I am again all alone in my own cyberspace - the only person out of the whole lot currently viewing this thread, so-o-o I will think outloud a bit and not apologize for rambling. I was of the mindset that DD avoided eye contact to protect Harry. I think that in the beginning LV believed that DD was his greatest threat. DD knew better and did all he had to do to make sure that the real source of LV's downfall remained secret from him. Harry was becoming a "go-between" between the 2 wizards, a dangerous connection point. If Harry could channel LV and harm DD, could it be possible that if he made eye contact that Harry could also channel DD and risk having the Voldy-thing an opportunity to do a little mind-reading of his own. After the destruction of the globe holding the prophecy was made known to Voldy he may have backed off and retreated to regroup and form new plans. Dumbledore must have known that LV was absent, for the time being, and it was safe to look Harry in the face/eye...or was he??

[Runes]

Okay, the thing here is that throughout the book Dumbledore believed that Voldemort wanted to use Harry so that Harry could spy on Dumbledore, know about the Order's plans etc. And maybe Voldemort could use Harry to attack Dumbledore. This was only what Dumbledore believed to be true. And this was what we believed to be true as well.

But probably for the first time, Dumbledore's shrewd ideas weren't true. The fact was, as Kuyooper said, that Voldemort was using Harry the other way around. His goal was for DD to try and kill Voldemort and in the process, to kill Harry as well.

[Aquaria]

Didn't DD explain that he didn't want to let Voldemort know how close he and Harry were? He tried to make it look like a regular Student -Headmaster-Relationship so that Voldemort wouldn't believe Harry to be worthy enough to spend much time inide his mind.
But in the end, DD risks his life for Harry. So obviously, Voldemort can guess that Harry means a lot to DD. So there's no use in pretending not to care about him anymore.

Highest priority is now to teach Harry Occlumency properly. And as Snape's not fit to do so as to his and Harry's feelings towards each other, it will be DD to teach him. Voldemort will try more often to access Harry's brain and Harry will need a lot of strength to fight him off.

[Nephel]

Didn't DD explain that he didn't want to let Voldemort know how close he and Harry were? He tried to make it look like a regular Student -Headmaster-Relationship so that Voldemort wouldn't believe Harry to be worthy enough to spend much time inide his mind.


I agree with that.

What it looked like to me was that Dumbledore looked simply fed-up every time Harry came to him. Dumbledore wanted to make it look like he have any special relationship with Harry

[kuyooper]

Originally posted by Aquaria
Highest priority is now to teach Harry Occlumency properly.
I disagree. I don't think it is important for Harry to learn Occlumency at all.

Dumbledore wanted Harry to learn occlumency for 2 reasons. The first is so Voldemort could not possess Harry easily. The second was because Dumbledore decided to arm Harry against any visions Voldemort might send Harry (to lure him to the DoM) by teaching him occlumency instead of just telling Harry that Voldemort might try to lure him there. Dumbledore admitted that this was a mistake.

Voldemort discovered in the DoM that he cannot possess Harry, so we no longer have to worry about that one.

And for the visions: It is true that Voldemort can still send Harry visions, but Harry is fully aware of that now. He is aware that Voldemort can trick him by sending visions of things that aren't really happening. Dumbledore finally told Harry what he should have told him much earlier. Harry won't be tricked by any visions again as he was in OotP.

The 2 primary reasons why Harry needed occlumency are now gone.

It still could be beneficial, of course for Harry to learn occlumency. That would be a good skill for anyone to have if they are destined to be around Voldemort as he is such a skilled legilimens. I just no longer think that it is a burning priority for Harry as it was in OotP.

Does this make sense? I think it does, but I could be missing something of course.

[Motoss]

I would think it much more beneficial for Harry to learn Legilimency. That way, he could perhaps figure out some way to kill Voldemort (as I am assuming he won't take him on in a head-first duel).

[weasley]

Dumbledore was worried that if he looked at Harry, he would see Voldemort's eyes or something staring back at him (Dumbledore said it somewhere) and from that I presume that because Legimens is easier if you look into their eyes, Voldemort might be able to see Dumbledore's thoughts ect. through Harry if Harry looked into his eyes.